Re: [H] Open question?

[Scott Sipe]

gt;>>>>>> improved over the years, but, I just do not care to share my
>>>>>>> keystrokes in free space.
>>>>>>> Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and
>>>>>>> saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
>>>>>>> Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300
>>>>>>> router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong
>>>>>>> hot-spots in my neighborhood.
>>>>>>> I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that
>>>>>>> service providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is
>>>>>>> already!). But, until wired LAN is restricted to only
>>>>>>> commercial/industrial space, I will stay wired-only.
>>>>>>> Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:
>>>>>>>> Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Greg,
>>>>>>>>> TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
>>>>>>>>> Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
>>>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances
>>>>>>>>>> (ie: TV,
>>>>>>>>>> blu-ray
>>>>>>>>>> player, Dish receivers).
>>>>>>>>>> WiFi N for laptops
>>>>>>>>>> WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered
>>>>>>>>>> on, but
>>>>>>>>>> nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of
>>>>>>>>>> good old
>>>>>>>>>> fashioned twisted pair.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>>>> From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
>>>>>>>>>>> boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>>> To: Hardware Group
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [H] Open question?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this
>>>>>>>>>>> LIST is
>>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>> actively
>>>>>>>>>>> using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
>>>>>>>>>>> The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> (Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6
>>>>>>>>>>> LANs?)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Just wondering?
>>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>>> 05/12/10 14:26:00
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
>>>>>>> 05/13/10 02:26:00
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
>>>>> 05/13/10 02:26:00
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
>>> 05/13/10 02:26:00
>>> 
>> 

Re: [H] Open question?

[maccrawj]

Or any other method where the pass[hrase doesn't consist of elements that can be 
cracked by dictionary attacks.


Common mistake people make is setting up a "password" vs. "passphrase" and in either 
case further making the mistake of only using alphanumeric limiting entropy to <64 
possibilities per character. WEP can secure the common man if limits dictate but 
using "god", "mydogfluffy" type passphrases leaves end runs arround WEP cracking 
issues never mind lowering WPA to hackable, LOL!


Sideline attacks where the randomness of a generator can be anticipated can negate 
"secure" passphrase generators but that's not the run-of-the-mill hacker.



On 5/13/2010 8:15 AM, Brian Weeden wrote:

If you are using WPA2 encryption on your WiFi then you have nothing to worry
about in terms of someone cracking it, especially if you use a 64 character
password generated by this site:

https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:08 AM, DSinc  wrote:


Anthony,
I suppose we have different feelings about "complex."
I feel that WIFI is a level of 'complex' I just do not yet require. Nothing
more.
I understand your position and use of WIFI. Yes, a 63-digit master PW would
make much sense. But, even in my 'primitive' wired LAN, my guests have no
access to my LAN clients (tested). Yes, guests can only see my LAN clients,
but can only USE/Access my router/gateway for internet surfing.
Different strokes, I suppose.
Best,
Duncan



On 05/13/2010 10:36, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:


Why so complex, Duncan?

Lock your wireless network down with a hard password and give the guess
a simple one. I use a 63 digit "hex" string for my network from
wireless. For the guest part, which are not allowed to see my computers,
I have a simple one that I can tell them.

On 5/13/2010 10:29 AM, DSinc wrote:


Brian,
TNX. I recall that you did mention your choices before.
Yes, I am thinking of the "guest w/toys" angle. I do not do DHCP at my
router ATM. But, I may now test this feature with a limited range of
addy's for guests to use. I know; more research.
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:22, Brian Weeden wrote:


Mix here. Back in 2003 when I lived in Montana I wired my whole house
with
Cat5e and RG6 drops, of course then I moved a year later and have moved
twice more since then (I was in the military until 2007 and my wife
still
is). So for me to put the time in effort into completely wiring a house
each time we move is not very efficient.

Right now I'm running an Apple Airport Extreme which sits in the same
closet
as the main house server (media and backup). That lets me run a wired
connection to that server and the upstairs HTPC which is right above it.
And other things in the A/V closet (like the Xbox 360) get wired as
well .
But everything else in the house (my desktop and laptop, wife's laptop,
iPhone, random other devices) are all Wifi.

The other big reason to have WiF is for visitors. With a 2-mo old and a
2-yr old we are getting a set of grandparents or siblings stopping by
for a
few days every few months, and they all have laptops or netbooks in
tow and
need net access to do work or just surf/email.

I detect from some people a pretty strong aversion to Wireless, and I
would
ask why that is. WiFi is not some new-fangled thing - it's been
around and
in increasingly heavy us for the better part of a decade. Certainly,
there
are some applications that have large enough bandwidth requirements that
wired is preferable. That's why my HTPCs are wired to the content
server.
But for most other things WiFi (especially N) is more than fast
enough and
the lack of wires is a huge benefit.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
05/13/10 02:26:00

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Gaffer,
Yes, that is sorta what I've always thought!
TNX.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 15:48, Gaffer wrote:

On Thursday 13 May 2010 00:24:52 DSinc wrote:

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is
now actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan


Lets put it this way...  I can't sit outside your place and hijack your
wired lan.  ;-)

Re: [H] Open question?

[Gaffer]

On Thursday 13 May 2010 00:24:52 DSinc wrote:
> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is
> now actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
>
> No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
> The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)
>
> (Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)
>
> Just wondering?
> Best,
> Duncan

Lets put it this way...  I can't sit outside your place and hijack your 
wired lan.  ;-)

-- 
Best Regards:
 Derrick.
 Running Open SuSE 11.1 KDE 3.5.10 Desktop.
 Pontefract Linux Users Group.
 plug @ play-net.co.uk

Re: [H] Open question?

[Anthony Q. Martin]

Thanks, Just what I needed.

On 5/13/2010 3:15 PM, Jason Carson wrote:

What is the difference between Cat 5, 5e, and 6?
 

Here is a brief synopsis...

http://ezinearticles.com/?CAT5-vs-CAT5E-vs-CAT6&id=322715
   




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date: 05/13/10 
02:26:00

   

Re: [H] Open question?

[Jason Carson]

> What is the difference between Cat 5, 5e, and 6?

Here is a brief synopsis...

http://ezinearticles.com/?CAT5-vs-CAT5E-vs-CAT6&id=322715

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Julian,
I spent many years working with/on TEMPEST-grade hardware.
What a true PITA! But, it was fun!
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 13:43, Julian Zottl wrote:

Since we're bringing up lead walls, if people are interested in that kind of
stuff, look up TEMPEST.

Julian


On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 1:38 PM, Anthony Q. Martinwrote:


Yes, you are relative to the lock punks.  But even regular Wifi security
can defeat them.

In the defense industry common PC components have to be locked down again
stray RF because spies in parking lots can sniff signals...even those on
wired keyboards.
I used to work inside a small room with 1-foot metal walls on all sides.
  Heck, even football coaches use this tech to keep opposing teams from sniff
playbooks!  So, if your stuff is that important... :)

Anyway, not trying to talk you into anything.  Keep doing what you're
doing, man!  Be happy!

On 5/13/2010 1:14 PM, DSinc wrote:


Anthony,
OK. I'll get my old RF sniffer out again next week and check my 4
keyboards and mice ;)

What kind of shields do you mean? I don't think the punks in pocket race
cars w/WIFI scanners see anything but my m/b's or my microwave.
I could be wrong, but, I believe I am roughly RF neutral.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 12:32, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:


Unless they are shielded, they still leak some RF energy, bro!

On 5/13/2010 12:11 PM, DSinc wrote:


Anthony,
LOL! Yes, I live in a neighborhood of "Good Ole' Boys." And, I have
met many of them over the past 6 years. None of them work at (minimum)
Radio Shack, or, any of the 3 "computer" stores in my location. These
folk do beer, babes, V8 cars/trucks, and cable/sat TV.

Uh, installed by a service provider? Not here brother! "Let's call
cousin Jo-Bob! He's always online playing _!" (fill-in!)
"PassPhrase"? I could only hope.

The spurious RF in my neighborhood caused my router's WIFI side to
have trouble linking with a test client inside my house15ft away
from the router. WIFI has been shut off since installation.

I suppose that if I used a wireless keyboard/mouse, then yes. But, I
do not use wireless anything. My keyboards and mice are all remain PS/2.
Still smiling, though.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 10:59, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:


hehe...Ok, Duncan.

Just curious, though...what do you mean by "few too many strong
hot-spots"? Are people in your 'hood leaving their wireless networks
open? I can see my neighbors networks, but they all appear to be
secure.
I think the providers are making sure they setup the customers with
secure networks, but it's no telling how hard the passphrase are...

But I do think someone can still sniff your keystrokes...unless your
keyboard itself is "tempest" then one can make a trip to radioshack to
see what top secret stuff you are typing.

best.

On 5/13/2010 10:49 AM, DSinc wrote:


Anthony,
I suppose the main fear is security. I just do not wish to become an
RF transmission site. Yes, I am aware that encryption tech has
improved over the years, but, I just do not care to share my
keystrokes in free space.
Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on the
phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and
saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300
router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong
hot-spots in my neighborhood.
I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that
service providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is
already!). But, until wired LAN is restricted to only
commercial/industrial space, I will stay wired-only.
Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:


Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:


Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:


Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie:
TV,
blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered
on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good
old
fashioned twisted pair.

  -Original Message-

From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is
now


actively


using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many 

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Anthony,
I spent 18 months of my life inside one of those areas repairing stuff.
Not quite ready to turn my home into a Faraday Cage. Not necessary 
really, I trust.
I now get to trust in the technology of my ISP, my modem, and, my chosen 
router/gateway. Beyond that, I do what needs to be done as best I am 
able at the client level.

It's all good! LOL! Happy GA Camper!
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 13:38, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Yes, you are relative to the lock punks.  But even regular Wifi security
can defeat them.

In the defense industry common PC components have to be locked down
again stray RF because spies in parking lots can sniff signals...even
those on wired keyboards.
I used to work inside a small room with 1-foot metal walls on all sides.
Heck, even football coaches use this tech to keep opposing teams from
sniff playbooks! So, if your stuff is that important... :)

Anyway, not trying to talk you into anything. Keep doing what you're
doing, man! Be happy!

On 5/13/2010 1:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
OK. I'll get my old RF sniffer out again next week and check my 4
keyboards and mice ;)

What kind of shields do you mean? I don't think the punks in pocket
race cars w/WIFI scanners see anything but my m/b's or my microwave.
I could be wrong, but, I believe I am roughly RF neutral.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 12:32, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Unless they are shielded, they still leak some RF energy, bro!

On 5/13/2010 12:11 PM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
LOL! Yes, I live in a neighborhood of "Good Ole' Boys." And, I have
met many of them over the past 6 years. None of them work at (minimum)
Radio Shack, or, any of the 3 "computer" stores in my location. These
folk do beer, babes, V8 cars/trucks, and cable/sat TV.

Uh, installed by a service provider? Not here brother! "Let's call
cousin Jo-Bob! He's always online playing _!" (fill-in!)
"PassPhrase"? I could only hope.

The spurious RF in my neighborhood caused my router's WIFI side to
have trouble linking with a test client inside my house15ft away
from the router. WIFI has been shut off since installation.

I suppose that if I used a wireless keyboard/mouse, then yes. But, I
do not use wireless anything. My keyboards and mice are all remain
PS/2.
Still smiling, though.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 10:59, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

hehe...Ok, Duncan.

Just curious, though...what do you mean by "few too many strong
hot-spots"? Are people in your 'hood leaving their wireless networks
open? I can see my neighbors networks, but they all appear to be
secure.
I think the providers are making sure they setup the customers with
secure networks, but it's no telling how hard the passphrase are...

But I do think someone can still sniff your keystrokes...unless your
keyboard itself is "tempest" then one can make a trip to radioshack to
see what top secret stuff you are typing.

best.

On 5/13/2010 10:49 AM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
I suppose the main fear is security. I just do not wish to become an
RF transmission site. Yes, I am aware that encryption tech has
improved over the years, but, I just do not care to share my
keystrokes in free space.
Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on
the
phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and
saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300
router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong
hot-spots in my neighborhood.
I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that
service providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is
already!). But, until wired LAN is restricted to only
commercial/industrial space, I will stay wired-only.
Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:

Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances
(ie: TV,
blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered
on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of
good old
fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this
LIST is
now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those 

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Brian,
Good point. A bit more absolute than my life could handle. I do have the 
technology background to deal with a Faraday Cage, but, this is not the 
point. And, I choose not to build one.


I freely accept the compromises I have made to play Internet to meet my 
needs ATM (since 1970). I accept your professional position. I've read 
your sig. Let's just agree that my query, in your words, might have 
something to do with levels of paranoia and leave it at that.

Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 13:13, Brian Weeden wrote:

Gibson has also acknowledged many times that there is no such thing as
perfect security for ANYTHING.  Given a long enough timeline, anything can
be broken or cracked.  It all depends how far your paranoia goes.

If you absolutely want to ensure your security and privacy, then you should
live in a Faraday cage and never use the Internet.  Everything else is just
various shades of compromising your security for the sake of functionality
or ease of use.  That's fine, as long as you realize that anything other
than the cage and no Internet has some compromise on security.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Thane Sherrington<
th...@computerconnectionltd.com>  wrote:


At 01:23 PM 13/05/2010, DSinc wrote:


Brian,
TNX. Yes, am aware of the new WPA2 encryption, and, this website. GRC and
I have been friends for many years.
I accept that WIFI will fully mature as it gets pushed harder into the
consumer space for all things INTERNET.  I simply choose to delay this
technology at my home until my current LAN tech no longer works.

Computing and Mobility remain mutually exclusive issues to me.



Just remember that Gibson stated that WPA was completely safe whilst WEP
was not.  Now that has changed to WPA2.  I use wireless happily, but it's
not cable.

T

Re: [H] Open question?

[Julian Zottl]

>>>>>> Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Greg,
>>>>>>>> TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
>>>>>>>> Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
>>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie:
>>>>>>>>> TV,
>>>>>>>>> blu-ray
>>>>>>>>> player, Dish receivers).
>>>>>>>>> WiFi N for laptops
>>>>>>>>> WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered
>>>>>>>>> on, but
>>>>>>>>> nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good
>>>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>>> fashioned twisted pair.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>>> From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
>>>>>>>>>> boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: Hardware Group
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [H] Open question?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is
>>>>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> actively
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
>>>>>>>>>> The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6
>>>>>>>>>> LANs?)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just wondering?
>>>>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>>>>> Duncan
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date:
>>>>>>>> 05/12/10 14:26:00
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
>>>>>> 05/13/10 02:26:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
>>>> 05/13/10 02:26:00
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date: 05/13/10
>> 02:26:00
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [H] Open question?

[Anthony Q. Martin]

Yes, you are relative to the lock punks.  But even regular Wifi security 
can defeat them.


In the defense industry common PC components have to be locked down 
again stray RF because spies in parking lots can sniff signals...even 
those on wired keyboards.
I used to work inside a small room with 1-foot metal walls on all 
sides.  Heck, even football coaches use this tech to keep opposing teams 
from sniff playbooks!  So, if your stuff is that important... :)


Anyway, not trying to talk you into anything.  Keep doing what you're 
doing, man!  Be happy!


On 5/13/2010 1:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
OK. I'll get my old RF sniffer out again next week and check my 4 
keyboards and mice ;)


What kind of shields do you mean? I don't think the punks in pocket 
race cars w/WIFI scanners see anything but my m/b's or my microwave.

I could be wrong, but, I believe I am roughly RF neutral.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 12:32, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Unless they are shielded, they still leak some RF energy, bro!

On 5/13/2010 12:11 PM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
LOL! Yes, I live in a neighborhood of "Good Ole' Boys." And, I have
met many of them over the past 6 years. None of them work at (minimum)
Radio Shack, or, any of the 3 "computer" stores in my location. These
folk do beer, babes, V8 cars/trucks, and cable/sat TV.

Uh, installed by a service provider? Not here brother! "Let's call
cousin Jo-Bob! He's always online playing _!" (fill-in!)
"PassPhrase"? I could only hope.

The spurious RF in my neighborhood caused my router's WIFI side to
have trouble linking with a test client inside my house15ft away
from the router. WIFI has been shut off since installation.

I suppose that if I used a wireless keyboard/mouse, then yes. But, I
do not use wireless anything. My keyboards and mice are all remain 
PS/2.

Still smiling, though.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 10:59, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

hehe...Ok, Duncan.

Just curious, though...what do you mean by "few too many strong
hot-spots"? Are people in your 'hood leaving their wireless networks
open? I can see my neighbors networks, but they all appear to be 
secure.

I think the providers are making sure they setup the customers with
secure networks, but it's no telling how hard the passphrase are...

But I do think someone can still sniff your keystrokes...unless your
keyboard itself is "tempest" then one can make a trip to radioshack to
see what top secret stuff you are typing.

best.

On 5/13/2010 10:49 AM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
I suppose the main fear is security. I just do not wish to become an
RF transmission site. Yes, I am aware that encryption tech has
improved over the years, but, I just do not care to share my
keystrokes in free space.
Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on 
the

phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and
saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300
router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong
hot-spots in my neighborhood.
I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that
service providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is
already!). But, until wired LAN is restricted to only
commercial/industrial space, I will stay wired-only.
Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:
Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances 
(ie: TV,

blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered
on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of 
good old

fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this 
LIST is

now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6
LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date:
05/12/10 14:26:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Thane,
LMAO!!! But, hey? Not a bad idea! This coming summer could be a bit 
soggy however. I am in shorts/t-shirt weather ATM. Those longies might 
start a new fashion-trend. Believe I'll pass.

Besides, my home is mostly lead-free (w/certificate). Nah!!
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 12:45, Thane Sherrington wrote:

At 01:32 PM 13/05/2010, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Unless they are shielded, they still leak some RF energy, bro!


Doesn't matter, he wears lead long underwear. :)

T

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Anthony,
OK. I'll get my old RF sniffer out again next week and check my 4 
keyboards and mice ;)


What kind of shields do you mean? I don't think the punks in pocket race 
cars w/WIFI scanners see anything but my m/b's or my microwave.

I could be wrong, but, I believe I am roughly RF neutral.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 12:32, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Unless they are shielded, they still leak some RF energy, bro!

On 5/13/2010 12:11 PM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
LOL! Yes, I live in a neighborhood of "Good Ole' Boys." And, I have
met many of them over the past 6 years. None of them work at (minimum)
Radio Shack, or, any of the 3 "computer" stores in my location. These
folk do beer, babes, V8 cars/trucks, and cable/sat TV.

Uh, installed by a service provider? Not here brother! "Let's call
cousin Jo-Bob! He's always online playing _!" (fill-in!)
"PassPhrase"? I could only hope.

The spurious RF in my neighborhood caused my router's WIFI side to
have trouble linking with a test client inside my house15ft away
from the router. WIFI has been shut off since installation.

I suppose that if I used a wireless keyboard/mouse, then yes. But, I
do not use wireless anything. My keyboards and mice are all remain PS/2.
Still smiling, though.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 10:59, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

hehe...Ok, Duncan.

Just curious, though...what do you mean by "few too many strong
hot-spots"? Are people in your 'hood leaving their wireless networks
open? I can see my neighbors networks, but they all appear to be secure.
I think the providers are making sure they setup the customers with
secure networks, but it's no telling how hard the passphrase are...

But I do think someone can still sniff your keystrokes...unless your
keyboard itself is "tempest" then one can make a trip to radioshack to
see what top secret stuff you are typing.

best.

On 5/13/2010 10:49 AM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
I suppose the main fear is security. I just do not wish to become an
RF transmission site. Yes, I am aware that encryption tech has
improved over the years, but, I just do not care to share my
keystrokes in free space.
Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on the
phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and
saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300
router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong
hot-spots in my neighborhood.
I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that
service providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is
already!). But, until wired LAN is restricted to only
commercial/industrial space, I will stay wired-only.
Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:

Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie: TV,
blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered
on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good old
fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is
now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6
LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date:
05/12/10 14:26:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
05/13/10 02:26:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
05/13/10 02:26:00

Re: [H] Open question?

[Brian Weeden]

Gibson has also acknowledged many times that there is no such thing as
perfect security for ANYTHING.  Given a long enough timeline, anything can
be broken or cracked.  It all depends how far your paranoia goes.

If you absolutely want to ensure your security and privacy, then you should
live in a Faraday cage and never use the Internet.  Everything else is just
various shades of compromising your security for the sake of functionality
or ease of use.  That's fine, as long as you realize that anything other
than the cage and no Internet has some compromise on security.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Thane Sherrington <
th...@computerconnectionltd.com> wrote:

> At 01:23 PM 13/05/2010, DSinc wrote:
>
>> Brian,
>> TNX. Yes, am aware of the new WPA2 encryption, and, this website. GRC and
>> I have been friends for many years.
>> I accept that WIFI will fully mature as it gets pushed harder into the
>> consumer space for all things INTERNET.  I simply choose to delay this
>> technology at my home until my current LAN tech no longer works.
>>
>> Computing and Mobility remain mutually exclusive issues to me.
>>
>
> Just remember that Gibson stated that WPA was completely safe whilst WEP
> was not.  Now that has changed to WPA2.  I use wireless happily, but it's
> not cable.
>
> T
>
>

Re: [H] Open question?

[Thane Sherrington]

At 01:32 PM 13/05/2010, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Unless they are shielded, they still leak some RF energy, bro!


Doesn't matter, he wears lead long underwear. :)

T 

Re: [H] Open question?

[Anthony Q. Martin]

Unless they are shielded, they still leak some RF energy, bro!

On 5/13/2010 12:11 PM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
LOL! Yes, I live in a neighborhood of "Good Ole' Boys." And, I have 
met many of them over the past 6 years. None of them work at (minimum) 
Radio Shack, or, any of the 3 "computer" stores in my location. These 
folk do beer, babes, V8 cars/trucks, and cable/sat TV.


Uh, installed by a service provider? Not here brother! "Let's call 
cousin Jo-Bob! He's always online playing _!" (fill-in!)

"PassPhrase"?  I could only hope.

The spurious RF in my neighborhood caused my router's WIFI side to 
have trouble linking with a test client inside my house15ft away 
from the router. WIFI has been shut off since installation.


I suppose that if I used a wireless keyboard/mouse, then yes. But, I 
do not use wireless anything. My keyboards and mice are all remain PS/2.

Still smiling, though.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 10:59, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

hehe...Ok, Duncan.

Just curious, though...what do you mean by "few too many strong
hot-spots"? Are people in your 'hood leaving their wireless networks
open? I can see my neighbors networks, but they all appear to be secure.
I think the providers are making sure they setup the customers with
secure networks, but it's no telling how hard the passphrase are...

But I do think someone can still sniff your keystrokes...unless your
keyboard itself is "tempest" then one can make a trip to radioshack to
see what top secret stuff you are typing.

best.

On 5/13/2010 10:49 AM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
I suppose the main fear is security. I just do not wish to become an
RF transmission site. Yes, I am aware that encryption tech has
improved over the years, but, I just do not care to share my
keystrokes in free space.
Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on the
phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and
saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300
router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong
hot-spots in my neighborhood.
I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that
service providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is
already!). But, until wired LAN is restricted to only
commercial/industrial space, I will stay wired-only.
Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:

Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie: TV,
blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered 
on, but

nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good old
fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is
now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 
LANs?)


Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date:
05/12/10 14:26:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
05/13/10 02:26:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date: 05/13/10 
02:26:00

   

Re: [H] Open question?

[Thane Sherrington]

At 01:23 PM 13/05/2010, DSinc wrote:

Brian,
TNX. Yes, am aware of the new WPA2 encryption, and, this website. 
GRC and I have been friends for many years.
I accept that WIFI will fully mature as it gets pushed harder into 
the consumer space for all things INTERNET.  I simply choose to 
delay this technology at my home until my current LAN tech no longer works.


Computing and Mobility remain mutually exclusive issues to me.


Just remember that Gibson stated that WPA was completely safe whilst 
WEP was not.  Now that has changed to WPA2.  I use wireless happily, 
but it's not cable.


T 

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Brian,
TNX. Yes, am aware of the new WPA2 encryption, and, this website. GRC 
and I have been friends for many years.
I accept that WIFI will fully mature as it gets pushed harder into the 
consumer space for all things INTERNET.  I simply choose to delay this 
technology at my home until my current LAN tech no longer works.


Computing and Mobility remain mutually exclusive issues to me.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 11:15, Brian Weeden wrote:

If you are using WPA2 encryption on your WiFi then you have nothing to worry
about in terms of someone cracking it, especially if you use a 64 character
password generated by this site:

https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:08 AM, DSinc  wrote:


Anthony,
I suppose we have different feelings about "complex."
I feel that WIFI is a level of 'complex' I just do not yet require. Nothing
more.
I understand your position and use of WIFI. Yes, a 63-digit master PW would
make much sense. But, even in my 'primitive' wired LAN, my guests have no
access to my LAN clients (tested). Yes, guests can only see my LAN clients,
but can only USE/Access my router/gateway for internet surfing.
Different strokes, I suppose.
Best,
Duncan



On 05/13/2010 10:36, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:


Why so complex, Duncan?

Lock your wireless network down with a hard password and give the guess
a simple one. I use a 63 digit "hex" string for my network from
wireless. For the guest part, which are not allowed to see my computers,
I have a simple one that I can tell them.

On 5/13/2010 10:29 AM, DSinc wrote:


Brian,
TNX. I recall that you did mention your choices before.
Yes, I am thinking of the "guest w/toys" angle. I do not do DHCP at my
router ATM. But, I may now test this feature with a limited range of
addy's for guests to use. I know; more research.
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:22, Brian Weeden wrote:


Mix here. Back in 2003 when I lived in Montana I wired my whole house
with
Cat5e and RG6 drops, of course then I moved a year later and have moved
twice more since then (I was in the military until 2007 and my wife
still
is). So for me to put the time in effort into completely wiring a house
each time we move is not very efficient.

Right now I'm running an Apple Airport Extreme which sits in the same
closet
as the main house server (media and backup). That lets me run a wired
connection to that server and the upstairs HTPC which is right above it.
And other things in the A/V closet (like the Xbox 360) get wired as
well .
But everything else in the house (my desktop and laptop, wife's laptop,
iPhone, random other devices) are all Wifi.

The other big reason to have WiF is for visitors. With a 2-mo old and a
2-yr old we are getting a set of grandparents or siblings stopping by
for a
few days every few months, and they all have laptops or netbooks in
tow and
need net access to do work or just surf/email.

I detect from some people a pretty strong aversion to Wireless, and I
would
ask why that is. WiFi is not some new-fangled thing - it's been
around and
in increasingly heavy us for the better part of a decade. Certainly,
there
are some applications that have large enough bandwidth requirements that
wired is preferable. That's why my HTPCs are wired to the content
server.
But for most other things WiFi (especially N) is more than fast
enough and
the lack of wires is a huge benefit.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
05/13/10 02:26:00

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Anthony,
LOL! Yes, I live in a neighborhood of "Good Ole' Boys." And, I have met 
many of them over the past 6 years. None of them work at (minimum) Radio 
Shack, or, any of the 3 "computer" stores in my location. These folk do 
beer, babes, V8 cars/trucks, and cable/sat TV.


Uh, installed by a service provider? Not here brother! "Let's call 
cousin Jo-Bob! He's always online playing _!" (fill-in!)

"PassPhrase"?  I could only hope.

The spurious RF in my neighborhood caused my router's WIFI side to have 
trouble linking with a test client inside my house15ft away from the 
router. WIFI has been shut off since installation.


I suppose that if I used a wireless keyboard/mouse, then yes. But, I do 
not use wireless anything. My keyboards and mice are all remain PS/2.

Still smiling, though.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 10:59, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

hehe...Ok, Duncan.

Just curious, though...what do you mean by "few too many strong
hot-spots"? Are people in your 'hood leaving their wireless networks
open? I can see my neighbors networks, but they all appear to be secure.
I think the providers are making sure they setup the customers with
secure networks, but it's no telling how hard the passphrase are...

But I do think someone can still sniff your keystrokes...unless your
keyboard itself is "tempest" then one can make a trip to radioshack to
see what top secret stuff you are typing.

best.

On 5/13/2010 10:49 AM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
I suppose the main fear is security. I just do not wish to become an
RF transmission site. Yes, I am aware that encryption tech has
improved over the years, but, I just do not care to share my
keystrokes in free space.
Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on the
phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and
saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300
router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong
hot-spots in my neighborhood.
I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that
service providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is
already!). But, until wired LAN is restricted to only
commercial/industrial space, I will stay wired-only.
Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:

Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie: TV,
blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good old
fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is
now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date:
05/12/10 14:26:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
05/13/10 02:26:00

Re: [H] Open question?

[Brian Weeden]

If you are using WPA2 encryption on your WiFi then you have nothing to worry
about in terms of someone cracking it, especially if you use a 64 character
password generated by this site:

https://www.grc.com/passwords.htm

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US


On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 11:08 AM, DSinc  wrote:

> Anthony,
> I suppose we have different feelings about "complex."
> I feel that WIFI is a level of 'complex' I just do not yet require. Nothing
> more.
> I understand your position and use of WIFI. Yes, a 63-digit master PW would
> make much sense. But, even in my 'primitive' wired LAN, my guests have no
> access to my LAN clients (tested). Yes, guests can only see my LAN clients,
> but can only USE/Access my router/gateway for internet surfing.
> Different strokes, I suppose.
> Best,
> Duncan
>
>
>
> On 05/13/2010 10:36, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:
>
>> Why so complex, Duncan?
>>
>> Lock your wireless network down with a hard password and give the guess
>> a simple one. I use a 63 digit "hex" string for my network from
>> wireless. For the guest part, which are not allowed to see my computers,
>> I have a simple one that I can tell them.
>>
>> On 5/13/2010 10:29 AM, DSinc wrote:
>>
>>> Brian,
>>> TNX. I recall that you did mention your choices before.
>>> Yes, I am thinking of the "guest w/toys" angle. I do not do DHCP at my
>>> router ATM. But, I may now test this feature with a limited range of
>>> addy's for guests to use. I know; more research.
>>> Duncan
>>>
>>>
>>> On 05/13/2010 06:22, Brian Weeden wrote:
>>>
 Mix here. Back in 2003 when I lived in Montana I wired my whole house
 with
 Cat5e and RG6 drops, of course then I moved a year later and have moved
 twice more since then (I was in the military until 2007 and my wife
 still
 is). So for me to put the time in effort into completely wiring a house
 each time we move is not very efficient.

 Right now I'm running an Apple Airport Extreme which sits in the same
 closet
 as the main house server (media and backup). That lets me run a wired
 connection to that server and the upstairs HTPC which is right above it.
 And other things in the A/V closet (like the Xbox 360) get wired as
 well .
 But everything else in the house (my desktop and laptop, wife's laptop,
 iPhone, random other devices) are all Wifi.

 The other big reason to have WiF is for visitors. With a 2-mo old and a
 2-yr old we are getting a set of grandparents or siblings stopping by
 for a
 few days every few months, and they all have laptops or netbooks in
 tow and
 need net access to do work or just surf/email.

 I detect from some people a pretty strong aversion to Wireless, and I
 would
 ask why that is. WiFi is not some new-fangled thing - it's been
 around and
 in increasingly heavy us for the better part of a decade. Certainly,
 there
 are some applications that have large enough bandwidth requirements that
 wired is preferable. That's why my HTPCs are wired to the content
 server.
 But for most other things WiFi (especially N) is more than fast
 enough and
 the lack of wires is a huge benefit.

 ---
 Brian Weeden
 Technical Advisor
 Secure World Foundation
 +1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
 +1 (202) 683-8534 US


>>>
>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>> Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
>>> 05/13/10 02:26:00
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Anthony,
I suppose we have different feelings about "complex."
I feel that WIFI is a level of 'complex' I just do not yet require. 
Nothing more.
I understand your position and use of WIFI. Yes, a 63-digit master PW 
would make much sense. But, even in my 'primitive' wired LAN, my guests 
have no access to my LAN clients (tested). Yes, guests can only see my 
LAN clients, but can only USE/Access my router/gateway for internet surfing.

Different strokes, I suppose.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 10:36, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Why so complex, Duncan?

Lock your wireless network down with a hard password and give the guess
a simple one. I use a 63 digit "hex" string for my network from
wireless. For the guest part, which are not allowed to see my computers,
I have a simple one that I can tell them.

On 5/13/2010 10:29 AM, DSinc wrote:

Brian,
TNX. I recall that you did mention your choices before.
Yes, I am thinking of the "guest w/toys" angle. I do not do DHCP at my
router ATM. But, I may now test this feature with a limited range of
addy's for guests to use. I know; more research.
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:22, Brian Weeden wrote:

Mix here. Back in 2003 when I lived in Montana I wired my whole house
with
Cat5e and RG6 drops, of course then I moved a year later and have moved
twice more since then (I was in the military until 2007 and my wife
still
is). So for me to put the time in effort into completely wiring a house
each time we move is not very efficient.

Right now I'm running an Apple Airport Extreme which sits in the same
closet
as the main house server (media and backup). That lets me run a wired
connection to that server and the upstairs HTPC which is right above it.
And other things in the A/V closet (like the Xbox 360) get wired as
well .
But everything else in the house (my desktop and laptop, wife's laptop,
iPhone, random other devices) are all Wifi.

The other big reason to have WiF is for visitors. With a 2-mo old and a
2-yr old we are getting a set of grandparents or siblings stopping by
for a
few days every few months, and they all have laptops or netbooks in
tow and
need net access to do work or just surf/email.

I detect from some people a pretty strong aversion to Wireless, and I
would
ask why that is. WiFi is not some new-fangled thing - it's been
around and
in increasingly heavy us for the better part of a decade. Certainly,
there
are some applications that have large enough bandwidth requirements that
wired is preferable. That's why my HTPCs are wired to the content
server.
But for most other things WiFi (especially N) is more than fast
enough and
the lack of wires is a huge benefit.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date:
05/13/10 02:26:00

Re: [H] Open question?

[Anthony Q. Martin]

hehe...Ok, Duncan.

Just curious, though...what do you mean by "few too many strong 
hot-spots"?  Are people in your 'hood leaving their wireless networks 
open? I can see my neighbors networks, but they all appear to be 
secure.  I think the providers are making sure they setup the customers 
with secure networks, but it's no telling how hard the passphrase are...


But I do think someone can still sniff your keystrokes...unless your 
keyboard itself is "tempest" then one can make a trip to radioshack to 
see what top secret stuff you are typing.


best.

On 5/13/2010 10:49 AM, DSinc wrote:

Anthony,
I suppose the main fear is security. I just do not wish to become an 
RF transmission site. Yes, I am aware that encryption tech has 
improved over the years, but, I just do not care to share my 
keystrokes in free space.
Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on the 
phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and 
saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300 
router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong 
hot-spots in my neighborhood.
I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that 
service providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is 
already!). But, until wired LAN is restricted to only 
commercial/industrial space, I will stay wired-only.

Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:

Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie: TV,
blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good old
fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is 
now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date:
05/12/10 14:26:00






No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date: 05/13/10 
02:26:00

   

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Anthony,
I suppose the main fear is security. I just do not wish to become an RF 
transmission site. Yes, I am aware that encryption tech has improved 
over the years, but, I just do not care to share my keystrokes in free 
space.
Yes, I do use a 5.8GHz telephone. But, I do not spend much time on the 
phone. Besides, most of my phone traffic is robo-political calls and 
saying "No" to various charities seeking contributions... :)
Additionally, I noticed that when I upgraded to my current DGL-4300 
router, and tested its' WIFI side, I found a few too many strong 
hot-spots in my neighborhood.
I will watch WIFI as it improves and matures. I do believe that service 
providers may drive me to WIFI in the future anyway (ATT is already!). 
But, until wired LAN is restricted to only commercial/industrial space, 
I will stay wired-only.

Let's just call this my "tin-hat" issue.
Best,
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:45, Anthony Q. Martin wrote:

Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:

Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie: TV,
blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good old
fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date:
05/12/10 14:26:00

Re: [H] Open question?

[Anthony Q. Martin]

Why so complex, Duncan?

Lock your wireless network down with a hard password and give the guess 
a simple one.  I use a 63 digit "hex" string for my network from 
wireless. For the guest part, which are not allowed to see my computers, 
I have a simple one that I can tell them.


On 5/13/2010 10:29 AM, DSinc wrote:

Brian,
TNX. I recall that you did mention your choices before.
Yes, I am thinking of the "guest w/toys" angle. I do not do DHCP at my 
router ATM. But, I may now test this feature with a limited range of 
addy's for guests to use. I know; more research.

Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:22, Brian Weeden wrote:
Mix here.  Back in 2003 when I lived in Montana I wired my whole 
house with

Cat5e and RG6 drops, of course then I moved a year later and have moved
twice more since then (I was in the military until 2007 and my wife 
still

is).  So for me to put the time in effort into completely wiring a house
each time we move is not very efficient.

Right now I'm running an Apple Airport Extreme which sits in the same 
closet

as the main house server (media and backup).  That lets me run a wired
connection to that server and the upstairs HTPC which is right above it.
And other things in the A/V closet (like the Xbox 360) get wired as 
well .

But everything else in the house (my desktop and laptop, wife's laptop,
iPhone, random other devices) are all Wifi.

The other big reason to have WiF is for visitors.  With a 2-mo old and a
2-yr old we are getting a set of grandparents or siblings stopping by 
for a
few days every few months, and they all have laptops or netbooks in 
tow and

need net access to do work or just surf/email.

I detect from some people a pretty strong aversion to Wireless, and I 
would
ask why that is.  WiFi is not some new-fangled thing - it's been 
around and
in increasingly heavy us for the better part of a decade.  Certainly, 
there

are some applications that have large enough bandwidth requirements that
wired is preferable.  That's why my HTPCs are wired to the content 
server.
But for most other things WiFi (especially N) is more than fast 
enough and

the lack of wires is a huge benefit.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2871 - Release Date: 05/13/10 
02:26:00

   

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Joe User,
TNX. Understand the need in a consultant/repair environment.
I do not consult (except w/family) and fix my own boo-boo's with help 
from the List.

Duncan


On 05/13/2010 08:16, Joe User wrote:

Hello DSinc,

Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 6:24:52 PM, you wrote:


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?



Hell no, 10/100 here. Use wireless as needed. Turned on and off.

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Gary,
TNX. Understand. My clients are spread throughout the house.
Have always been wired since the start.
Duncan


On 05/13/2010 07:04, Gary Jackson wrote:


Being home bound with vision problems, wifi really doesn't offer me
anything that wired doesn't do better. If I was more mobile, I would
probably use both.

RegardsGary


At 06:24 PM 5/12/2010, It was written by DSinc that this shall come to
pass:

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Brian,
TNX. I recall that you did mention your choices before.
Yes, I am thinking of the "guest w/toys" angle. I do not do DHCP at my 
router ATM. But, I may now test this feature with a limited range of 
addy's for guests to use. I know; more research.

Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:22, Brian Weeden wrote:

Mix here.  Back in 2003 when I lived in Montana I wired my whole house with
Cat5e and RG6 drops, of course then I moved a year later and have moved
twice more since then (I was in the military until 2007 and my wife still
is).  So for me to put the time in effort into completely wiring a house
each time we move is not very efficient.

Right now I'm running an Apple Airport Extreme which sits in the same closet
as the main house server (media and backup).  That lets me run a wired
connection to that server and the upstairs HTPC which is right above it.
And other things in the A/V closet (like the Xbox 360) get wired as well .
But everything else in the house (my desktop and laptop, wife's laptop,
iPhone, random other devices) are all Wifi.

The other big reason to have WiF is for visitors.  With a 2-mo old and a
2-yr old we are getting a set of grandparents or siblings stopping by for a
few days every few months, and they all have laptops or netbooks in tow and
need net access to do work or just surf/email.

I detect from some people a pretty strong aversion to Wireless, and I would
ask why that is.  WiFi is not some new-fangled thing - it's been around and
in increasingly heavy us for the better part of a decade.  Certainly, there
are some applications that have large enough bandwidth requirements that
wired is preferable.  That's why my HTPCs are wired to the content server.
But for most other things WiFi (especially N) is more than fast enough and
the lack of wires is a huge benefit.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Steve,
TNX. I do understand your choices. I am beginning to rethink my basic 
assumption/belief. Hmm.

Duncan


On 05/13/2010 06:02, Steve Tomporowski wrote:

All wired here except for one printer on a wireless print buffer.
Actually have two separate networks here, my wife's and mine (this is
called peace of mind;-). My wife has actually removed the antennae
from her router because she was seeing the neighbor's network (well, she
realized that only after being convinced I wasn't tapping into her
network...)

Steve

On 5/13/2010 1:19 AM, John R Steinbruner wrote:

Both

Both PC's, the laser printer, and both NAS boxen in the computer room
are all on a wired Gigabit switch...

NAS transfers are very fast that way... :)

But I use wireless for the MacBook Pro laptop and the Xbox 360 in the
living room where I don't have any ethernet cables..

Works very well for me..



On May 12, 2010, at 4:24 PM, DSinc wrote:


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is
now actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

JRS,
Your world I knew. Yes. NAS is quick on the GBit wired LAN. Can not 
compare with previous 10/100 wired LAN. GBit upgrade was an eye-opener 
for me.

Duncan


On 05/13/2010 01:19, John R Steinbruner wrote:

Both

Both PC's, the laser printer, and both NAS boxen in the computer room are all 
on a wired Gigabit switch...

NAS transfers are very fast that way...  :)

But I use wireless for the MacBook Pro laptop and the Xbox 360 in the living 
room where I don't have any ethernet cables..

Works very well for me..



On May 12, 2010, at 4:24 PM, DSinc wrote:


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now actively 
using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[Stan Zaske]

What need for a laptop unless it's for business purposes and you need to 
go online periodically during the day when away from home? I can wait 
until I get back to my desktop.



On 5/12/2010 9:36 PM, DSinc wrote:

Michael,
TNX. This seems to be a new norm.
I don't do laptops yet.
Duncan

On 05/12/2010 20:13, Michael Resnick wrote:

Desktops are wired, Laptops are WiFi.


At 07:24 PM 5/12/2010, DSinc wrote:

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

__ NOD32 5110 (20100512) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com




__
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not
have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin

PS. Please note that I have switched to my GMAIL address -
mike...@gmail.com
Please update your email / address book / contact list accordingly.
Thanks

Re: [H] Open question?

[Joe User]

Hello DSinc,

Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 6:24:52 PM, you wrote:

> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
> actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?


Hell no, 10/100 here. Use wireless as needed. Turned on and off.


-- 
Regards,
 joeuser - Still looking for the 'any' key...

"...now these points of data make a beautiful line..."

Re: [H] Open question?

[Gary Jackson]

Being home bound with vision problems, wifi really doesn't offer me 
anything that wired doesn't do better.  If I was more mobile, I would 
probably use both.


RegardsGary


At 06:24 PM 5/12/2010, It was written by DSinc that this shall come to pass:
Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now 
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?


No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[Anthony Q. Martin]

Why do you fear WIFI, Duncan?

On 5/12/2010 11:14 PM, DSinc wrote:

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:
Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie: TV, 
blu-ray

player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good old
fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan







No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/12/10 
14:26:00

   

Re: [H] Open question?

[Brian Weeden]

Mix here.  Back in 2003 when I lived in Montana I wired my whole house with
Cat5e and RG6 drops, of course then I moved a year later and have moved
twice more since then (I was in the military until 2007 and my wife still
is).  So for me to put the time in effort into completely wiring a house
each time we move is not very efficient.

Right now I'm running an Apple Airport Extreme which sits in the same closet
as the main house server (media and backup).  That lets me run a wired
connection to that server and the upstairs HTPC which is right above it.
And other things in the A/V closet (like the Xbox 360) get wired as well .
But everything else in the house (my desktop and laptop, wife's laptop,
iPhone, random other devices) are all Wifi.

The other big reason to have WiF is for visitors.  With a 2-mo old and a
2-yr old we are getting a set of grandparents or siblings stopping by for a
few days every few months, and they all have laptops or netbooks in tow and
need net access to do work or just surf/email.

I detect from some people a pretty strong aversion to Wireless, and I would
ask why that is.  WiFi is not some new-fangled thing - it's been around and
in increasingly heavy us for the better part of a decade.  Certainly, there
are some applications that have large enough bandwidth requirements that
wired is preferable.  That's why my HTPCs are wired to the content server.
But for most other things WiFi (especially N) is more than fast enough and
the lack of wires is a huge benefit.

---
Brian Weeden
Technical Advisor
Secure World Foundation 
+1 (514) 466-2756 Canada
+1 (202) 683-8534 US

Re: [H] Open question?

[Steve Tomporowski]

All wired here except for one printer on a wireless print buffer.  
Actually have two separate networks here, my wife's and mine (this is 
called peace of mind;-).  My wife has actually removed the antennae 
from her router because she was seeing the neighbor's network (well, she 
realized that only after being convinced I wasn't tapping into her 
network...)


Steve

On 5/13/2010 1:19 AM, John R Steinbruner wrote:

Both

Both PC's, the laser printer, and both NAS boxen in the computer room are all 
on a wired Gigabit switch...

NAS transfers are very fast that way...  :)

But I use wireless for the MacBook Pro laptop and the Xbox 360 in the living 
room where I don't have any ethernet cables..

Works very well for me..



On May 12, 2010, at 4:24 PM, DSinc wrote:

   

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now actively 
using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan
 


   

Re: [H] Open question?

[Anthony Q. Martin]

What is the difference between Cat 5, 5e, and 6?

On 5/12/2010 10:30 PM, Tony Riederer wrote:

A bunch of wired with a mix of CAT 5,5E,6 over the years. And some wireless,
and Sneaker net here. Still prefer the hard wired.
Tony

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:18 PM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Open question?

Bryan,
In my very simple ask, YOU may not count; because I figure you play
everywhere, by necessity. Even in places I do not need to know about.
But, TNX anyway.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 21:58, Bryan Seitz wrote:
   

I do, if I'm transferring large files although true 802.11N @ 3xxMbit
is not bad.

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 06:47:48PM -0700, Gary VanderMolen wrote:
 

I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?

Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)


-Original Message-
From: DSinc


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
   
 




No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2870 - Release Date: 05/12/10 
14:26:00

 

Re: [H] Open question?

[John R Steinbruner]

Both

Both PC's, the laser printer, and both NAS boxen in the computer room are all 
on a wired Gigabit switch...

NAS transfers are very fast that way...  :)

But I use wireless for the MacBook Pro laptop and the Xbox 360 in the living 
room where I don't have any ethernet cables..

Works very well for me..



On May 12, 2010, at 4:24 PM, DSinc wrote:

> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now 
> actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
> 
> No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
> The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)
> 
> (Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)
> 
> Just wondering?
> Best,
> Duncan


-- 
JRS
stei...@pacbell.net

Facts do not cease to exist just
because they are ignored.

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Greg,
TNX. I've always known you were into it all... :)
Logic for WIFI makes sense; though I still fear it.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 23:04, Greg Sevart wrote:

Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie: TV, blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good old
fashioned twisted pair.


-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now

actively

using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Julian,
TNX. I suspected.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 22:43, Julian Zottl wrote:

Yep, I use a combination of wired (2xNetgear GS108T) and wireless
(Netgear WNR3500).
  Wireless is strictly for my work laptop and any friends that come over, all
of my desktops are wired as well as my PS3/Denon.

Julian


On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:42 PM, DSinc  wrote:


Tony,
TNX, Interesting. I still do "sneakernet" now via my new USB FD's.
Old habits die hard.
Duncan



On 05/12/2010 22:30, Tony Riederer wrote:


A bunch of wired with a mix of CAT 5,5E,6 over the years. And some
wireless,
and Sneaker net here. Still prefer the hard wired.
Tony

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:18 PM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Open question?

Bryan,
In my very simple ask, YOU may not count; because I figure you play
everywhere, by necessity. Even in places I do not need to know about.
But, TNX anyway.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 21:58, Bryan Seitz wrote:


I do, if I'm transferring large files although true 802.11N @ 3xxMbit
is not bad.

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 06:47:48PM -0700, Gary VanderMolen wrote:


I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?

Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)


-Original Message-
From: DSinc


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

Re: [H] Open question?

[Greg Sevart]

Wired for all workstations, servers, and devices/appliances (ie: TV, blu-ray
player, Dish receivers).
WiFi N for laptops
WiFi G for phones/other that don't speak N

Wireless is great for any device you don't want to be tethered on, but
nothing beats the performance, security, and reliability of good old
fashioned twisted pair.

> -Original Message-
> From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com [mailto:hardware-
> boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 6:25 PM
> To: Hardware Group
> Subject: [H] Open question?
> 
> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively
> using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
> 
> No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
> The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)
> 
> (Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)
> 
> Just wondering?
> Best,
> Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[Julian Zottl]

Yep, I use a combination of wired (2xNetgear GS108T) and wireless
(Netgear WNR3500).
 Wireless is strictly for my work laptop and any friends that come over, all
of my desktops are wired as well as my PS3/Denon.

Julian


On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 10:42 PM, DSinc  wrote:

> Tony,
> TNX, Interesting. I still do "sneakernet" now via my new USB FD's.
> Old habits die hard.
> Duncan
>
>
>
> On 05/12/2010 22:30, Tony Riederer wrote:
>
>> A bunch of wired with a mix of CAT 5,5E,6 over the years. And some
>> wireless,
>> and Sneaker net here. Still prefer the hard wired.
>> Tony
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
>> [mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:18 PM
>> To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
>> Subject: Re: [H] Open question?
>>
>> Bryan,
>> In my very simple ask, YOU may not count; because I figure you play
>> everywhere, by necessity. Even in places I do not need to know about.
>> But, TNX anyway.
>> Duncan
>>
>>
>> On 05/12/2010 21:58, Bryan Seitz wrote:
>>
>>> I do, if I'm transferring large files although true 802.11N @ 3xxMbit
>>> is not bad.
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 06:47:48PM -0700, Gary VanderMolen wrote:
>>>
>>>> I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
>>>> Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?
>>>>
>>>> Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: DSinc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
>>>> actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Tony,
TNX, Interesting. I still do "sneakernet" now via my new USB FD's.
Old habits die hard.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 22:30, Tony Riederer wrote:

A bunch of wired with a mix of CAT 5,5E,6 over the years. And some wireless,
and Sneaker net here. Still prefer the hard wired.
Tony

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:18 PM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Open question?

Bryan,
In my very simple ask, YOU may not count; because I figure you play
everywhere, by necessity. Even in places I do not need to know about.
But, TNX anyway.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 21:58, Bryan Seitz wrote:

I do, if I'm transferring large files although true 802.11N @ 3xxMbit
is not bad.

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 06:47:48PM -0700, Gary VanderMolen wrote:

I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?

Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)


-Original Message-
From: DSinc


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Michael,
TNX. This seems to be a new norm.
I don't do laptops yet.
Duncan

On 05/12/2010 20:13, Michael Resnick wrote:

Desktops are wired, Laptops are WiFi.


At 07:24 PM 5/12/2010, DSinc wrote:

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

__ NOD32 5110 (20100512) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com




__
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will not
have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin

PS. Please note that I have switched to my GMAIL address -
mike...@gmail.com
Please update your email / address book / contact list accordingly.
Thanks

Re: [H] Open question?

[Tony Riederer]

A bunch of wired with a mix of CAT 5,5E,6 over the years. And some wireless,
and Sneaker net here. Still prefer the hard wired.
Tony

-Original Message-
From: hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com
[mailto:hardware-boun...@hardwaregroup.com] On Behalf Of DSinc
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 9:18 PM
To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com
Subject: Re: [H] Open question?

Bryan,
In my very simple ask, YOU may not count; because I figure you play 
everywhere, by necessity. Even in places I do not need to know about.
But, TNX anyway.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 21:58, Bryan Seitz wrote:
> I do, if I'm transferring large files although true 802.11N @ 3xxMbit
> is not bad.
>
> On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 06:47:48PM -0700, Gary VanderMolen wrote:
>> I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
>> Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?
>>
>> Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: DSinc
>>
>>
>> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
>> actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
>

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Bryan,
In my very simple ask, YOU may not count; because I figure you play 
everywhere, by necessity. Even in places I do not need to know about.

But, TNX anyway.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 21:58, Bryan Seitz wrote:

I do, if I'm transferring large files although true 802.11N @ 3xxMbit
is not bad.

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 06:47:48PM -0700, Gary VanderMolen wrote:

I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?

Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)


-Original Message-
From: DSinc


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Gary,
Understand the lifestyle change; and your creds.
Suppose I am still a desktop-junkie.
No harm, no foul. Just wondering.
TNX,
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 21:47, Gary VanderMolen wrote:

I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?

Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)


-Original Message- From: DSinc


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Stan,
TNX.
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 21:11, Stan Zaske wrote:

I will never go wireless. Ever!


On 5/12/2010 6:24 PM, DSinc wrote:

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[Bryan Seitz]

I do, if I'm transferring large files although true 802.11N @ 3xxMbit 
is not bad.

On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 06:47:48PM -0700, Gary VanderMolen wrote:
> I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
> Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?
> 
> Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: DSinc
> 
> 
> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
> actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

-- 
 
Bryan G. Seitz

Re: [H] Open question?

[Gary VanderMolen]

I switched to Wi-Fi only when I got rid of the last desktop machine.
Who wants his laptop to be tethered to a bulky ethernet cable?

Gary VanderMolen, Microsoft MVP (Mail)


-Original Message- 
From: DSinc



Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

Re: [H] Open question?

[Stan Zaske]

I will never go wireless. Ever!


On 5/12/2010 6:24 PM, DSinc wrote:
Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now 
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?


No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[Michael Resnick]

Desktops are wired, Laptops are WiFi.


At 07:24 PM 5/12/2010, DSinc wrote:
Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is 
now actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?


No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

__ NOD32 5110 (20100512) Information __

This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
http://www.eset.com




__
"Those who desire to give up freedom in order to gain security, will 
not have, nor do they deserve, either one." - Benjamin Franklin


PS. Please note that I have switched to my GMAIL address - mike...@gmail.com
Please update your email / address book / contact list accordingly.
Thanks

Re: [H] Open question?

[Jason Carson]

Both

> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
> actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
>
> No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
> The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)
>
> (Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)
>
> Just wondering?
> Best,
> Duncan
>

Re: [H] Open question?

[Robert Martin Jr.]

Everything important in my place is wired and gigabit speed running through a 
managed switch with QOS. Even on N-band wifi, transferring videos that are 
13-15GB each could take a really long time.  I have a wireless setup just for 
my daughter laptop and I use it occasionally with my laptop if I'm outside on 
the porch.

lopaka





From: DSinc 
To: Hardware Group 
Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 4:24:52 PM
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now actively 
using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[James Maki]

Wired, but run wireless for the daughter's laptop when she visits from
college.

Jim 

> -Original Message-
> From: DSinc
 
> Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this 
> LIST is now 
> actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

Re: [H] Open question?

[FORC5]

both.

fp

At 04:24 PM 5/12/2010, DSinc Poked the stick with:
>Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now 
>actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?
>
>No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
>The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)
>
>(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)
>
>Just wondering?
>Best,
>Duncan
>
>__ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature 
>database 5110 (20100512) __
>
>The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
>
>http://www.eset.com
>
>

-- 
Tallyho ! ]:8)
Taglines below !
--
HaHaHa! Yuk, Yuk. Snort. Harumph.

Re: [H] Open question?

[Anthony Martin]

Wired is the best option if you can make it happen for all needs. But wifi 
works great for lots of applications. 
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-Original Message-
From: DSinc 
Date: Wed, 12 May 2010 19:24:52 
To: Hardware Group
Subject: [H] Open question?

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now 
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[DSinc]

tnx Veech. (thought so!)
Duncan


On 05/12/2010 19:30, Veech wrote:

Still wired LAN at my house.

- Original Message - From: "DSinc" 
To: "Hardware Group" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 16:24
Subject: [H] Open question?



Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?

No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

Re: [H] Open question?

[Veech]

Still wired LAN at my house.

- Original Message - 
From: "DSinc" 

To: "Hardware Group" 
Sent: Wednesday, May 12, 2010 16:24
Subject: [H] Open question?


Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now 
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?


No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan

[H] Open question?

[DSinc]

Is it fair for me to NOW believe that the majority of this LIST is now 
actively using WIFI for their internal home LANs?


No. I do not wish to start a firestorm with those that use both!
The basic question is about the use of WIFI... :)

(Are there many of us old fools still using only wired CAT5/6 LANs?)

Just wondering?
Best,
Duncan