Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
- Original Message - From: Christopher Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'The Hardware List' hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 10:18 PM Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible That takes way too much time. Boot from CD and clean it from there. Oh, I forgot that few cases are similar to the misnamed Enlight case. Pitstop should have been their name, not Enlight. Put a fully assembled (right from being in use by the customer) Enlight case computer on my bench and I have the completely disconnected 3.5 bay frame in my hands within 25 seconds. It takes another 5 seconds to hook it to my shop computer which is kept on a shelf at eye level with its side open, ready to work. Then booting to a Windows XP operating system is far quicker than booting to a CD. I love working out of my home as I can have the equipment that I need. How many bench techs who work for a business have flat panel shop monitors (the space savings are worth the cost)? How many have a computer sitting at eye level with side open with 4 IDE and 2 SATA channels available to do testing, virus scanning and hardware testing? How many have an office computer to do their paperwork, Internet access and other computer related tasks on? Both my shop computer and my office computer are for me, only. My wife has her own computer in another room. How many have a second workstation wired to share one monitor, keyboard and mouse with 2 computers? By having dedicated equipment I was able to run Spinrite for 10 hours on a drive and then run Scandisk for another 4 hours on the same drive and patch it up just enough to recover the customer's important data. I did this without interfering with my normal operations in my shop. I recover their data for free if they buy a new computer from me or for a reasonable fee if they are simply getting a new hard drive. If they choose to do no business with me, I charge them $50.00 for a DVD with their data on it. In my area many choose to do no business with me. They just want to drop back by and pick up their hard drive that I put 10+ hours of repair and recovery time in and copied its data to a DVD before it totally crashed. Hard drives seem to know when their owner is a cheap bastard and crash after I get the data onto a DVD but before the customer picks it up. Albany, Georgia is an area where people do not haggle over the price of a new forty grand vehicle but want to haggle for 3 days over a thousand dollar computer and then either go buy a five hundred dollar Wal*Mart special or a three grand dell, no haggle, of course! Chuck
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
- Original Message - From: Wayne Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 12:50 AM Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible Still I would much rather boot a BartPe or XpPe disk CD that remove the HD put it into another machine. I tried booting the new Knoppix 5 DVD on a 2700+ machine I thought that would never boot up but it did eventually. I know my shop computer is a P4 2.53 GHz with a gig of RAM (If I had felt memory starved I would have doubled that as I did in my office computer) and it has no major issues. I trust it lots more than I trust a customer's computer. I tried one of those homemade boot Windows XP operating systems. That thing took a long time to boot up. It had to copy all of that stuff from the CD into RAM which I guess is the reason it was slow to boot. In a normal boot, my shop computer simply copies the needed data from the hard drive into the 1024 MB of RAM. I simply tell people what is more comfortable for me. I realize they are going to continue to do what they feel best with. My purpose is not to get them to change as what y'all do has no affect on the success of my business. I believe that the more opinions and the more information a person has to work with, the more informed decisions they can make. My guess is very few computer shops work with workhorse shop computers. The computer shop I got trained in was so cheap they refused to replace the one old 13 CRT monitor that was defective, cutting off while in use etc. It was difficult to get a dedicated 3 to 4 feet of bench space! A second workstation would have been totally out of the question. Now I have 8 feet on one bench and 6 feet on another plus my office space. Chuck Chuck
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
There are, however, numerous add-ons that do copy plenty to RAMDISK before working. What slows it down isn't a slow optical drive, necessarily, it's the amount of drivers and items that build in. For those of us that just use universal type BART discs, with all drivers we might potentially need, the load time can be sucky, no matter what you do. CW -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 8:44 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible At 08:05 AM 4/6/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: I tried one of those homemade boot Windows XP operating systems. That thing took a long time to boot up. It had to copy all of that stuff from the CD into RAM which I guess is the reason it was slow to boot. In a normal boot, my shop computer simply copies the needed data from the hard drive into the 1024 MB of RAM. Woah there cowboy. BartPe XpPe do NOT copy hardly anything to RAM. The reason they take longer is because they're on an slow optical disk not a 7200rpm HD. Why would your copying stuff to RAM be any faster than their copying stuff to RAM ? The logic makes NO SENSE. The next thing you'll be telling us about the 150w Dell ps but not tell us that you were only counting the 3v 5v rails. What about the 12v rail ? I certainly would take more time to do some research on statements that I was about to make if I were you. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 07:45 AM 4/6/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: Albany, Georgia is an area where people do not haggle over the price of a new forty grand vehicle but want to haggle for 3 days over a thousand dollar computer and then either go buy a five hundred dollar Wal*Mart special or a three grand dell, no haggle, of course! You just described most of America. If more people thought computers were worth 3 grand then more people would buy them. How many 3k systems do you see advertised on TV ? Almost none but how many 40k+ vehicles do you see advertised on TV? Only 2 or 3 per hour of prime time TV broadcast. How many cheap computers do you see advertised? Almost as many as the car commercials. Gee, if I knew nothing about computers I would buy a cheap one I'm sure that your first vehicle wasn't 40k+ either. When are you going to learn to give the American public a break? People understand transportation but have failed to fully understand what computers can do therefore they don't value computers as much especially their 1st one. How many things have you learned the hard way? I have learned many things via the school of hard knocks the rest of the American public will too but not as fast as you like. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 09:46 AM 4/6/2006, Chris Reeves typed: There are, however, numerous add-ons that do copy plenty to RAMDISK before working. Sure there are. Everyone that creates a plugin thinks their apps must install to the RAMDISK. Heck I even copy my Favorites to the RAMDISK on bootup but is it req'd? I don't think so. What slows it down isn't a slow optical drive, necessarily, it's the amount of drivers and items that build in. For those of us that just use universal type BART discs, with all drivers we might potentially need, the load time can be sucky, no matter what you do. That's the catch22 all drivers we might potentially need. Once we do that it's more like we're installing Windows versus just booting an existing OS but that's also a caveat of the beast. We never know what drivers are needed for the system we've not yet seen are asked to fix so we're damned if we do have almost all the drivers that we can think of or we're damned if we don't. Maybe we need 2 BartPE disks with one with just the basic driver set that comes with PE Builder another with a much wider assortment of driver just in case? --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
The problem with that solution is it isn't very realistic. With more people adopting NForce4 boards, or newer Intel, Via, etc. boards, they have SATA drives without native drive support in the default WinXP. So, you have to add on drivers. And since you have no idea of what you are running into, the smart move is to plan for most anything. Which is why a lot of people just build a pre-prepped OS with something like BTS MegaStorage Pack or whatever built in, and then go from there. But it is a PITA to do so and then wait on boot for it to check for any possible raid controller, etc. :) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wayne Johnson Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:06 AM To: The Hardware List Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible At 09:46 AM 4/6/2006, Chris Reeves typed: There are, however, numerous add-ons that do copy plenty to RAMDISK before working. Sure there are. Everyone that creates a plugin thinks their apps must install to the RAMDISK. Heck I even copy my Favorites to the RAMDISK on bootup but is it req'd? I don't think so. What slows it down isn't a slow optical drive, necessarily, it's the amount of drivers and items that build in. For those of us that just use universal type BART discs, with all drivers we might potentially need, the load time can be sucky, no matter what you do. That's the catch22 all drivers we might potentially need. Once we do that it's more like we're installing Windows versus just booting an existing OS but that's also a caveat of the beast. We never know what drivers are needed for the system we've not yet seen are asked to fix so we're damned if we do have almost all the drivers that we can think of or we're damned if we don't. Maybe we need 2 BartPE disks with one with just the basic driver set that comes with PE Builder another with a much wider assortment of driver just in case? --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues. Jin-Wei Tioh wrote: At 08:12 PM 4/4/2006, you wrote: And don't forget to include the Geniuses from Redmond that gave us the fertile ground of their security-hole ridden OS that made all this possible in the first place... Bill Heh... that too :P I guess the blame breaks down to, what? 80% - 20%? 80% - MS's fault 20% - Popularity of OS -- JW
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
As Microsoft's guy, I already told you We only deliver what you need, but it's up to you because you're the one to choose to do, so it's your own risk You are familiar with ir, are you guys :lol At 05:04 PM 4/5/2006, warpmedia wrote: LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues. Jin-Wei Tioh wrote: At 08:12 PM 4/4/2006, you wrote: And don't forget to include the Geniuses from Redmond that gave us the fertile ground of their security-hole ridden OS that made all this possible in the first place... Bill Heh... that too :P I guess the blame breaks down to, what? 80% - 20%? 80% - MS's fault 20% - Popularity of OS -- JW -- Garind P =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Visit http://www.maludong.com oc ur mobo not urself or anybody else
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 07:04 AM 05/04/2006, warpmedia wrote: LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues. Yeah, how was MS to know that running an OS with all users as root would be bad idea? T
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
2001 called I dont even log in with an administrator account unless I have to install something. One reason *nix boxes are not compromised as much is because this practice is beaten into your head from the get go. never_log_in_as_root_unless_you_must From: Thane Sherrington (S) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:45:56 -0300 At 07:04 AM 05/04/2006, warpmedia wrote: LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues. Yeah, how was MS to know that running an OS with all users as root would be bad idea? T
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
I think what he's saying is by default, new accounts within Windows XP non-networked are set to have full priveleges. -Original message- From: Hayes Elkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:21:21 -0500 To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible 2001 called I dont even log in with an administrator account unless I have to install something. One reason *nix boxes are not compromised as much is because this practice is beaten into your head from the get go. never_log_in_as_root_unless_you_must From: Thane Sherrington (S) [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 08:45:56 -0300 At 07:04 AM 05/04/2006, warpmedia wrote: LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues. Yeah, how was MS to know that running an OS with all users as root would be bad idea? T
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those I can clean any infection guys at now? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Winterlight Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:03 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1945808,00.asp?kc=ewnws040406dtx1k0 000599 Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible April 4, 2006 By Ryan Naraine LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla.-In a rare discussion about the severity of the Windows malware scourge, a Microsoft security official said businesses should consider investing in an automated process to wipe hard drives and reinstall operating systems as a practical way to recover from malware infestation. When you are dealing with rootkits and some advanced spyware programs, the only solution is to rebuild from scratch. In some cases, there really is no way to recover without nuking the systems from orbit, Mike Danseglio, program manager in the Security Solutions group at Microsoft, said in a presentation at the InfoSec World conference here. Offensive rootkits, which are used hide malware programs and maintain an undetectable presence on an infected machine, have become the weapon of choice for virus and spyware writers and, because they often use kernel hooks to avoid detection, Danseglio said IT administrators may never know if all traces of a rootkit have been successfully removed. He cited a recent instance where an unnamed branch of the U.S. government struggled with malware infestations on more than 2,000 client machines. In that case, it was so severe that trying to recover was meaningless. They did not have an automated process to wipe and rebuild the systems, so it became a burden. They had to design a process real fast, Danseglio added. Danseglio, who delivered two separate presentations at the conference-one on threats and countermeasures to defend against malware infestations in Windows, and the other on the frightening world on Windows rootkits-said anti-virus software is getting better at detecting and removing the latest threats, but for some sophisticated forms of malware, he conceded that the cleanup process is just way too hard. Microsoft says stealth rootkits are bombarding Windows XP SP2 machines. Click here to read more. We've seen the self-healing malware that actually detects that you're trying to get rid of it. You remove it, and the next time you look in that directory, it's sitting there. It can simply reinstall itself, he said. Detection is difficult, and remediation is often impossible, Danseglio declared. If it doesn't crash your system or cause your system to freeze, how do you know it's there? The answer is you just don't know. Lots of times, you never see the infection occur in real time, and you don't see the malware lingering or running in the background. He recommended using PepiMK Software's SpyBot Search Destroy, Mark Russinovich's RootkitRevealer and Microsoft's own Windows Defender, all free utilities that help with malware detection and cleanup, and urged CIOs to take a defense-in-depth approach to preventing infestations. Are virtual machine rootkits the next big threat? Click here to read more. Danseglio said malicious hackers are conducting targeted attacks that are stealthy and effective and warned that the for-profit motive is much more serious than even the destructive network worms of the past. In 2006, the attackers want to pay the rent. They don't want to write a worm that destroys your hardware. They want to assimilate your computers and use them to make money. At Microsoft, we are fielding 2,000 attacks per hour. We are a constant target, and you have to assume your Internet-facing service is also a big target, Danseglio said. Next Page: Human stupidity. Danseglio said the success of social engineering attacks is a sign that the weakest link in malware defense is human stupidity. Social engineering is a very, very effective technique. We have statistics that show significant infection rates for the social engineering malware. Phishing is a major problem because there really is no patch for human stupidity, he said. Ziff Davis Media eSeminars invite: Is your enterprise network truly secure? Join us April 11 at 4 p.m. ET as Akonix demonstrates best practices for neutralizing threats and securing your network. The most recent statistics from Microsoft's anti-malware engineering team confirm Danseglio's contention. In February alone, the company's free Malicious Software Removal Tool detected a social engineering worm called Win32/Alcan on more than 250,000 unique machines. According to Danseglio, user education goes a long way to mitigating the threat from social engineering, but in companies where staff turnover is high, he said a company may never recoup that investment. The easy way to
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 03:04 PM 05/04/2006, Mesdaq, Ali wrote: Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those I can clean any infection guys at now? I'm still not convinced that the only response to any infection is a total reinstall. But I haven't read the article completely yet, so perhaps I'll come around. But if MS is right, then it's time for everyone, and I mean everyone, to abandon ship and switch to Apple or *nix now because if the maker of the product says it's unsafe and unfixable, then we are nuts to be using it. T
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 03:31 PM 4/5/2006, Thane Sherrington (S) typed: I'm still not convinced that the only response to any infection is a total reinstall. But I haven't read the article completely yet, so perhaps I'll come around. But if MS is right, then it's time for everyone, and I mean everyone, to abandon ship and switch to Apple or *nix now because if the maker of the product says it's unsafe and unfixable, then we are nuts to be using it. Sounds to me like MSFT is trying to scare people into Windows Defender or Windows One Care subscriptions to me but either way until MSFT provides a decent imaging app such as Ghost I'm not buying it. Social engineering is a very, very effective technique. We have statistics that show significant infection rates for the social engineering malware. Phishing is a major problem because there really is no patch for human stupidity, he said. Just because large corporations may have a problem with hiring idiots does that mean the bright people here have anything to worry about. ;-) --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
Starting with DOS, then Win9x as what the customer base is used to? Point is that bugs usability are the root culprit. Any user friendly OS is going to have at least a similar problem. Even the touted exploit virus free Mac's are finally get attention for the black hats and my guess will prove to have many flaws also. In Psychology they have a label *which escapes me* for looking back at things and saying cause effect are obvious (common called 20/20 hindsight?). Exploits are as old as the computer and will never go away given the growing complexity of software. I do like how IE on 2003 defaults to restricted for each new domain and allows you to then trust it. Very much like how I was running it before I switched to FF. Thane Sherrington (S) wrote: At 07:04 AM 05/04/2006, warpmedia wrote: LOL, bash away boys, the next popular OS will have the same issues. Yeah, how was MS to know that running an OS with all users as root would be bad idea? T
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
Uh huh, and in a few years well be saying the same about them also. It's the nature of the beast with programmable systems and programmer/companies more concerned with moving widgets than getting them bug free. Granted MS has become the poster child for this, but that's what happens to the product in the spotlight. Look at it as acceptable risk vs. profit for them. Lots of companies work this way and Very few ever get burnt enough to be forced to correct the model in favor if doing the right thing. Worse, if they do, someone claims they are stealing money from someone else who offers a product to compensate for the flaws. Think I'm wrong? Look into how the EU wants to charge MS with anti-competitive practices for including anti-spyware for free. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Thane Sherrington (S) wrote: At 03:04 PM 05/04/2006, Mesdaq, Ali wrote: Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those I can clean any infection guys at now? I'm still not convinced that the only response to any infection is a total reinstall. But I haven't read the article completely yet, so perhaps I'll come around. But if MS is right, then it's time for everyone, and I mean everyone, to abandon ship and switch to Apple or *nix now because if the maker of the product says it's unsafe and unfixable, then we are nuts to be using it. T
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
Just because a car can do 100MPH doesn't mean you blame the manufacture for diver incompetence. If you don't change your oil (ie have knowledge) it's your fault when you get that repair bill or end up stranded in the middle of nowhere. People need to learn proper habits, period. I welcome a time when portrayed in SciFi like Star trek, we all understand computer operation security. CW wrote: I think what he's saying is by default, new accounts within Windows XP non-networked are set to have full priveleges.
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
As long as there are operating systems that allow people to run applications as ring 0 there will always be social engineering tricks to get a system so messed up re-imaging will be necessary. Supposedly the next version of MS will not allow anymore ring 0 apps unless certified by MS. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thane Sherrington (S) Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 12:31 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible At 03:04 PM 05/04/2006, Mesdaq, Ali wrote: Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those I can clean any infection guys at now? I'm still not convinced that the only response to any infection is a total reinstall. But I haven't read the article completely yet, so perhaps I'll come around. But if MS is right, then it's time for everyone, and I mean everyone, to abandon ship and switch to Apple or *nix now because if the maker of the product says it's unsafe and unfixable, then we are nuts to be using it. T
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 02:04 PM 4/5/2006, Mesdaq, Ali typed: Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those I can clean any infection guys at now? We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting another OS even XP cleaning these affected HDs? I've already successfully cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have cleaned without booting another OS such as the Bagle Netsky variants that shuts down anything with the AV name in it within 15 seconds such as the AV website so one can not do an online scan or allowing one to update their AV defs. Also we can clean any infection guys have never said that a wipe was never needed just that it's rarely needed. I've always been perturbed that MSFT has never provided a decent backup with ASR [automatic system recover] for Xp Home users. I also find it interesting that I as a beta tester just rec'd email from MSFT asking me if I want to purchase a one year subscription to their Live OneCare for $20 that covers 3 computers. BTW I'm not violating any NDA as There's still time to share the OneCare beta with friends and family. If they sign up for the beta, they'll also be eligible for the special $19.95 service subscription in April. There's more info on the http://www.windowsliveonecare.comOneCare website http://www.windowsliveonecare.com. For those who need no more convincing and are ready to sign up, you can direct them to the http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/default.aspxOneCare beta sign-up http://www.windowsonecare.com/purchase/default.aspx but you only have til April 30th to sign up. Danseglio said the success of social engineering attacks is a sign that the weakest link in malware defense is human stupidity. According to Danseglio, . The easy way to deal with this is to think about prevention. Preventing an infection is far easier than cleaning up, ---+-- a Windows Xp based Diagnostic Recovery CD http://www.xppe.com/
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
- Original Message - From: Mesdaq, Ali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 2:04 PM Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible Exactly what we were debating a few weeks ago. Where are those I can clean any infection guys at now? Format Drive C and do a clean install is looking lots better to many of you now. I was never a networker nor did I ever deal with Windows NT. I did hear that businesses ran Windows NT clean and simple on a small partition, keeping their important data on another partition, better yet, that other partition being on both the workstation computer and the server, making 2 data storage partitions. They had only a few applications to reinstall. When Windows went bad, they simply formatted Drive C, reinstalled Windows and the few applications and were back in business. My point is the format and clean install is more effective, even if it takes 5 seconds longer than trying to clean up a C Drive. Most realize that formatting and reinstalling is best once 5 hours of hard works is to no avail. Chuck
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
- Original Message - From: Wayne Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting another OS even XP cleaning these affected HDs? I've already successfully cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have If I were going to try to clean up a hard drive, my preference would be to remove it and attach it to another computer and run it passively. Chuck
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
That takes way too much time. Boot from CD and clean it from there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:45 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible - Original Message - From: Wayne Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting another OS even XP cleaning these affected HDs? I've already successfully cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have If I were going to try to clean up a hard drive, my preference would be to remove it and attach it to another computer and run it passively. Chuck
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
Totally disagree. By the time you configure BART or whatever to have all the right drivers (network drivers for say, Nvidia chipset, or new Intel network drivers) SATA drivers (new Intel, ATI, Nvidia, etc.) and it loads up all of those things, you can wait a while. On a decent fast machine, it's not bad, but on a slower machine it's a virtual eternity. CW -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Christopher Klein Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:18 PM To: 'The Hardware List' Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible That takes way too much time. Boot from CD and clean it from there. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 9:45 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible - Original Message - From: Wayne Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Hardware List hardware@hardwaregroup.com Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 4:32 PM Subject: RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible We're still here. Isn't it funny how MSFT does NOT address booting another OS even XP cleaning these affected HDs? I've already successfully cleaned bugs with my XpPe disk that I could NOT have If I were going to try to clean up a hard drive, my preference would be to remove it and attach it to another computer and run it passively. Chuck
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 09:45 PM 4/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed: If I were going to try to clean up a hard drive, my preference would be to remove it and attach it to another computer and run it passively. That's what you're doing when you boot a BartPE or XpPe or Knoppix CD. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 10:24 PM 4/5/2006, Chris Reeves typed: Totally disagree. By the time you configure BART or whatever to have all the right drivers (network drivers for say, Nvidia chipset, or new Intel network drivers) SATA drivers (new Intel, ATI, Nvidia, etc.) and it loads up all of those things, you can wait a while. On a decent fast machine, it's not bad, but on a slower machine it's a virtual eternity. Try booting one on a machine that doesn't have enough memory you can wait forever. ;-) Still I would much rather boot a BartPe or XpPe disk CD that remove the HD put it into another machine. I tried booting the new Knoppix 5 DVD on a 2700+ machine I thought that would never boot up but it did eventually. --+-- Wayne D. Johnson Ashland, OH, USA 44805 http://www.wavijo.com
Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
That's exactly why it has become standard policy for all the machines under care to restore the OS from a frequently updated image once it becomes infected with malware. Just can't really trust it anymore. D*mn malware authors to h**l. -- JW
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hardware- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jin-Wei Tioh Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 5:52 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: Re: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible That's exactly why it has become standard policy for all the machines under care to restore the OS from a frequently updated image once it becomes infected with malware. Just can't really trust it anymore. D*mn malware authors to h**l. -- JW And don't forget to include the Geniuses from Redmond that gave us the fertile ground of their security-hole ridden OS that made all this possible in the first place... Bill
RE: [H] Microsoft Says Recovery from Malware Becoming Impossible
At 08:12 PM 4/4/2006, you wrote: And don't forget to include the Geniuses from Redmond that gave us the fertile ground of their security-hole ridden OS that made all this possible in the first place... Bill Heh... that too :P I guess the blame breaks down to, what? 80% - 20%? 80% - MS's fault 20% - Popularity of OS -- JW
