Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[David W. Jones]

Hmm, I'd think that moving the camera on a tripod would be easier than 
moving the painting, when it comes to keeping the camera the same 
distance from the painting.


Once you position the camera, you might drop a plumb line from bottom 
center of tripod, let it hang straight, mark the distance of that point 
from the painting, then mark that point. Then measure and mark another 
other point the same distance from the painting but out from the other 
half of the painting. Then draw a line between the two points and you 
have a line to center the tripod on when you move it left/right.


You can minimize the number of tripod moves by shooting top left, bottom 
left, bottom right, top right. Then you only have to raise or lower the 
camera on the tripod. But you knew that already.


Don't forget vignetting.

On 11/04/2015 01:56 PM, Terry Duell wrote:

Hello All,
I have become involved in a project to help an artist friend prepare an
image of a painting to be used to make giclee prints, and I'm looking
for any thoughts on what I should do to get it right and what to avoid.
To date, my friend has had his paintings photographed commercially, with
a medium to large format film camera, the transparency then scanned on a
drum scanner to produce an image that would print at original size at
300 ppi.
I'll be shooting with a Pentax K-3 II (aps-c sensor), and aim to shoot a
2x2 pattern with about 30% overlap vertically and about 50% overlap
horizontally...that's roughly how it works out from the painting and
sensor proportions.
I'll shoot from a weighted tripod, using pixel shift mode, and at this
stage thinking about using a 150-450 lens at about 300mm.
The intention is to set the painting vertical on a stand, with lighting
each side at about 45 deg.
It is a simple matter to set the camera at the correct height shooting
horizontally, but not quite as simple to ensure we are normal to the
painting in the horizontal plane. I would like to try to minimise any
perspective effects as much as possible. The thinking at the moment is
to move the painting vertically and horizontally on a fixed easel to
align for each shot, rather than move the camera. I think we can better
keep the shots normal to the painting by this method.
That's probably enough to be going on with...any thoughts?

Cheers,



--
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello David,

On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 16:40:07 +1100, David W. Jones   
wrote:


Hmm, I'd think that moving the camera on a tripod would be easier than  
moving the painting, when it comes to keeping the camera the same  
distance from the painting.




I did talk a bit more about my thoughts on how the painting might be moved  
in a later post, although I didn't go into detail.
The thought is that the easel is fixed in place, and the painting moved  
sideways on a support on the easel, and that support raised and lowered  
using the easel adjustment mechanism. I'll need to test this to be sure it  
will work, and if not then resort to moving the tripod along the lines you  
have suggested.



You can minimize the number of tripod moves by shooting top left, bottom  
left, bottom right, top right. Then you only have to raise or lower the  
camera on the tripod. But you knew that already.


Yes :-)



Don't forget vignetting.



That's a stitching/post processing issue...isn't it?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers,
--
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Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Markku Kolkka]

5.11.2015, 1:56, Terry Duell kirjoitti:
> I'll shoot from a weighted tripod, using pixel shift mode, and at this
> stage thinking about using a 150-450 lens at about 300mm.

I'd suggest a macro lens for best edge to edge sharpness, for example
Pentax 100mm F2.8.

> The intention is to set the painting vertical on a stand, with lighting
> each side at about 45 deg.
> It is a simple matter to set the camera at the correct height shooting
> horizontally, but not quite as simple to ensure we are normal to the
> painting in the horizontal plane.

The traditional method is to place a mirror in place of the painting and
align the reflection of the lens to the center of the image in the
viewfinder/LCD. See: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3389571

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello Markku,

On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 20:41:57 +1100, Markku Kolkka   
wrote:



5.11.2015, 1:56, Terry Duell kirjoitti:

I'll shoot from a weighted tripod, using pixel shift mode, and at this
stage thinking about using a 150-450 lens at about 300mm.


I'd suggest a macro lens for best edge to edge sharpness, for example
Pentax 100mm F2.8.



OK, thanks. I'll see if I can find some lens tests to compare.


The intention is to set the painting vertical on a stand, with lighting
each side at about 45 deg.
It is a simple matter to set the camera at the correct height shooting
horizontally, but not quite as simple to ensure we are normal to the
painting in the horizontal plane.


The traditional method is to place a mirror in place of the painting and
align the reflection of the lens to the center of the image in the
viewfinder/LCD. See: http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3389571



That's a good idea.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Cheers,
--
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Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Markku Kolkka]

5.11.2015, 23:43, Terry Duell kirjoitti:
> Hello Markku,
>> I'd suggest a macro lens for best edge to edge sharpness, for example
>> Pentax 100mm F2.8.
>>
> 
> OK, thanks. I'll see if I can find some lens tests to compare.

http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/310/cat/45
http://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/smc-pentax-d-fa-100mm-f28-macro-wr/introduction.html

All the different autofocusing versions of Pentax 100/F2.8 Macro (F, FA,
D-FA and D-FA WR) have basically the same optical design and should have
similar performance.

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello Markku,

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 10:20:31 +1100, Markku Kolkka   
wrote:



5.11.2015, 23:43, Terry Duell kirjoitti:

Hello Markku,

I'd suggest a macro lens for best edge to edge sharpness, for example
Pentax 100mm F2.8.



OK, thanks. I'll see if I can find some lens tests to compare.


http://slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/310/cat/45
http://www.pentaxforums.com/reviews/smc-pentax-d-fa-100mm-f28-macro-wr/introduction.html

All the different autofocusing versions of Pentax 100/F2.8 Macro (F, FA,
D-FA and D-FA WR) have basically the same optical design and should have
similar performance.




...to compare with the performance of my 150-450.


Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Marius Loots]

Hallo All,

Don't know if this could assist, but thought I would put it out there.
Some many years ago, I was also attempting to photograph and stitch
a difficult subject. Unfortunately I can't remember the detail, but
what I do remember is that the subject was such that it was difficult
to place control points.

What I ended up doing was to place physical markers on the object,
which could then be used as control points and remove using masks.
This could perhaps be used in your case as well to control for
distortions?

Groetnis
 Marius  
 mailto:marius.lo...@up.ac.za
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello Marius,

On Fri, 06 Nov 2015 17:08:18 +1100, Marius Loots   
wrote:



Hallo All,

Don't know if this could assist, but thought I would put it out there.
Some many years ago, I was also attempting to photograph and stitch
a difficult subject. Unfortunately I can't remember the detail, but
what I do remember is that the subject was such that it was difficult
to place control points.

What I ended up doing was to place physical markers on the object,
which could then be used as control points and remove using masks.
This could perhaps be used in your case as well to control for
distortions?



I think the edges of the painting should provide good references which can  
be used to set horizontal and vertical lines which should control any  
perspective distortion.

Thanks for your advice, worth keeping in mind.


Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Markku Kolkka]

6.11.2015, 1:52, Terry Duell kirjoitti:
>
>>> OK, thanks. I'll see if I can find some lens tests to compare.
> 
> ...to compare with the performance of my 150-450.

Ephotozine has tested both lenses, but on different bodies (K-5 IIs vs.
K-3) so the measurements aren't necessarily directly comparable.
https://www.ephotozine.com/article/pentax-hd-pentax-d-fa-150-450mm-f-4-5-5-6-ed-dc-aw-review-27359#Performance
https://www.ephotozine.com/article/pentax-d-fa-100mm-f-2-8-macro-wr-lens-review-24103#Performance
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello Bill,

On Sat, 07 Nov 2015 02:27:33 +1100, Bill Brody  wrote:

I suggest a prime lens rather than any kind of zoom. They are much  
sharper. Many lens are sharpest at f8. Check the literature for your  
lens.


My choice of the Pentax 150-450 is because it's what I have.
The reports for this lens are good, particularly at about 300 and f8.
We aren't going to get another lens just for this experiment, but that  
maybe what is done later if it all works out OK.


Even though I use the free hugin for stitching, I use a commercial  
product,  DXO,  for preprocessing my images.


It'll be Hugin...from what I can find DxO is not available for Linux.

Thanks for your advice.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Paul Womack]

Pardon my dumbness; it's seems (from the thread) you're talking about
shooting a mosaic style set; in this context what is a  "2x2 pattern"
(since I suspect the full matrix will be more 8x13 images or whatever).

Second - how big is the physical painting?

  BugBear

On 4 November 2015 at 23:56, Terry Duell  wrote:

> Hello All,
> I have become involved in a project to help an artist friend prepare an
> image of a painting to be used to make giclee prints, and I'm looking for
> any thoughts on what I should do to get it right and what to avoid.
> To date, my friend has had his paintings photographed commercially, with a
> medium to large format film camera, the transparency then scanned on a drum
> scanner to produce an image that would print at original size at 300 ppi.
> I'll be shooting with a Pentax K-3 II (aps-c sensor), and aim to shoot a
> 2x2 pattern with about 30% overlap vertically and about 50% overlap
> horizontally...that's roughly how it works out from the painting and sensor
> proportions.
> I'll shoot from a weighted tripod, using pixel shift mode, and at this
> stage thinking about using a 150-450 lens at about 300mm.
> The intention is to set the painting vertical on a stand, with lighting
> each side at about 45 deg.
> It is a simple matter to set the camera at the correct height shooting
> horizontally, but not quite as simple to ensure we are normal to the
> painting in the horizontal plane. I would like to try to minimise any
> perspective effects as much as possible. The thinking at the moment is to
> move the painting vertically and horizontally on a fixed easel to align for
> each shot, rather than move the camera. I think we can better keep the
> shots normal to the painting by this method.
> That's probably enough to be going on with...any thoughts?
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Regards,
> Terry Duell
>
> --
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello Paul,

On Sun, 08 Nov 2015 00:05:09 +1100, Paul Womack   
wrote:



Pardon my dumbness; it's seems (from the thread) you're talking about
shooting a mosaic style set; in this context what is a  "2x2 pattern"
(since I suspect the full matrix will be more 8x13 images or whatever).



Yes, it will be shot in mosaic mode.
The 2x2 pattern is simply 2 rows, 2 columns, 4 shots in total.


Second - how big is the physical painting?


The painting is 760x560mm.

Cheers,
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Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[panostar]

Terry, Your camera with a 300mm lens will be quite a long way from the 
canvas.  If you have a spherical panorama head, I would use that and stitch 
as a conventional panorama rather than use mosaic mode.

John

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:38:21 PM UTC, Tduell wrote:
>
> Hello Paul, 
>
> On Sun, 08 Nov 2015 00:05:09 +1100, Paul Womack  >   
> wrote: 
>
> > Pardon my dumbness; it's seems (from the thread) you're talking about 
> > shooting a mosaic style set; in this context what is a  "2x2 pattern" 
> > (since I suspect the full matrix will be more 8x13 images or whatever). 
> > 
>
> Yes, it will be shot in mosaic mode. 
> The 2x2 pattern is simply 2 rows, 2 columns, 4 shots in total. 
>
> > Second - how big is the physical painting? 
>
> The painting is 760x560mm. 
>
> Cheers, 
> -- 
> Regards, 
> Terry Duell 
>

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Paul Womack]

That's why I asked about the shooting pattern and physical size.

I concur with using a pano head and "normal" stitching.

 BugBear

On 8 November 2015 at 13:06, panostar  wrote:

> Terry, Your camera with a 300mm lens will be quite a long way from the
> canvas.  If you have a spherical panorama head, I would use that and stitch
> as a conventional panorama rather than use mosaic mode.
>
> John
>
> On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 10:38:21 PM UTC, Tduell wrote:
>>
>> Hello Paul,
>>
>> On Sun, 08 Nov 2015 00:05:09 +1100, Paul Womack 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Pardon my dumbness; it's seems (from the thread) you're talking about
>> > shooting a mosaic style set; in this context what is a  "2x2 pattern"
>> > (since I suspect the full matrix will be more 8x13 images or whatever).
>> >
>>
>> Yes, it will be shot in mosaic mode.
>> The 2x2 pattern is simply 2 rows, 2 columns, 4 shots in total.
>>
>> > Second - how big is the physical painting?
>>
>> The painting is 760x560mm.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Terry Duell
>>
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>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello John,

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 00:06:31 +1100, panostar   
wrote:



Terry, Your camera with a 300mm lens will be quite a long way from the
canvas.  If you have a spherical panorama head, I would use that and  
stitch as a conventional panorama rather than use mosaic mode.




I think the camera will be about 6.5m from the painting, but I don't have  
a pano head, hence the current obsession with mosaic mode.
There will be quite a lot of experimental stuff going on at the time, and  
one is to shoot a conventional pano, but I have been thinking that mosaic  
mode would be my best approach.

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Cheers,
--
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Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Paul Womack]

Moving the painting would, unless your lighting is perfectly uniform,
involve moving the painting w.r.t. the lights, which might make a perfect
stitch impossible.

I would (quite strongly) recommend a pano head, home made if need be. Given
the lack of major 3d
features on a painting it needn't be perfect.

A home made one is probably only going to work for a fixed focal length
though, which might be an issue with a zoom lens.

In any case (speaking from experience) mosaic shooting brings is own quite
nasty parallax issues.

I experience much of this when doing my maps-in-an-archive shoot, recently.

I would certainly do test shoots with a cheap poster, or something.

 BugBear

On 8 November 2015 at 21:20, Terry Duell  wrote:

> Hello John,
>
> On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 00:06:31 +1100, panostar 
> wrote:
>
> Terry, Your camera with a 300mm lens will be quite a long way from the
>> canvas.  If you have a spherical panorama head, I would use that and
>> stitch as a conventional panorama rather than use mosaic mode.
>>
>>
> I think the camera will be about 6.5m from the painting, but I don't have
> a pano head, hence the current obsession with mosaic mode.
> There will be quite a lot of experimental stuff going on at the time, and
> one is to shoot a conventional pano, but I have been thinking that mosaic
> mode would be my best approach.
> Thanks for your thoughts on this.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Regards,
> Terry Duell
>
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello Paul,

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 08:29:39 +1100, Paul Womack   
wrote:



Moving the painting would, unless your lighting is perfectly uniform,
involve moving the painting w.r.t. the lights, which might make a perfect
stitch impossible.


Yes that is an issue, and we have more or less decided that keeping the  
painting in a fixed position is probably the better method.


I would (quite strongly) recommend a pano head, home made if need be.  
Given the lack of major 3d features on a painting it needn't be perfect.


It would be nice to have one, but won't be tackling the home made solution.



I would certainly do test shoots with a cheap poster, or something.


This is a test shoot.

Thanks for your advice.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[dgjohnston]

Terry, at 6.5m and with a relatively flat painting I can't see there being 
anything to produce parallax errors. Or am I showing my naivety here? Feel free 
to let me know if I'm out to lunch on this! ;o)I'd try experimenting with just 
rotating the camera and doing a normal piano stitch.


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Terry Duell  
Date: 2015-11-08  3:20 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints 

Hello John,

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 00:06:31 +1100, panostar   
wrote:

> Terry, Your camera with a 300mm lens will be quite a long way from the
> canvas.  If you have a spherical panorama head, I would use that and  
> stitch as a conventional panorama rather than use mosaic mode.
>

I think the camera will be about 6.5m from the painting, but I don't have  
a pano head, hence the current obsession with mosaic mode.
There will be quite a lot of experimental stuff going on at the time, and  
one is to shoot a conventional pano, but I have been thinking that mosaic  
mode would be my best approach.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.

Cheers,
-- 
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello dg,
Sorry, I forget if you are a David,

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 09:26:45 +1100, dgjohnston   
wrote:




Terry, at 6.5m and with a relatively flat painting I can't see there  
being anything to produce parallax errors. Or am I showing my naivety  
here? Feel free to let me know if I'm out to lunch on this! ;o)


I think you are quite correct, the parallax should be minimal.
No I don't think you are showing any more naivety than myself on this.
The reason I have become a bit obsessed with mosaic mode for this project  
is the Giclee (should be an accent on the c...can't see how to easily do  
that at the moment ) prints should be an exact, or as near as dammit, copy  
of the original, and that means a true rectangle i.e no perspective  
distortion which is what I will get with a normal pano.
Now I know that it should be possible to correct that in Hugin, and  
normally that works OK but I have had projects where that has proved to be  
a bit of a pain...so all the emphasis on mosaic and how to ensure camera  
square to subject etc.


I'd try  experimenting with just rotating the camera and doing a normal  
piano stitch.


I can't play piano, so will resort to simple pano :-)
Yes, the dance card now includes mosaic mode pano shots, normal pano  
shots, with pixel shift, without pixel shift, automatic white balance,  
manual white balance. It's getting bigger than Ben Hur!


Thanks for your help.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[dgjohnston]

I'm a Donald and I don't play the piano either. As they say "Spell check is my 
new wrost enema!"


Sent from my Samsung device

 Original message 
From: Terry Duell  
Date: 2015-11-08  4:50 PM  (GMT-06:00) 
To: hugin-ptx@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints 

Hello dg,
Sorry, I forget if you are a David,

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 09:26:45 +1100, dgjohnston   
wrote:

>
> Terry, at 6.5m and with a relatively flat painting I can't see there  
> being anything to produce parallax errors. Or am I showing my naivety  
> here? Feel free to let me know if I'm out to lunch on this! ;o)

I think you are quite correct, the parallax should be minimal.
No I don't think you are showing any more naivety than myself on this.
The reason I have become a bit obsessed with mosaic mode for this project  
is the Giclee (should be an accent on the c...can't see how to easily do  
that at the moment ) prints should be an exact, or as near as dammit, copy  
of the original, and that means a true rectangle i.e no perspective  
distortion which is what I will get with a normal pano.
Now I know that it should be possible to correct that in Hugin, and  
normally that works OK but I have had projects where that has proved to be  
a bit of a pain...so all the emphasis on mosaic and how to ensure camera  
square to subject etc.

> I'd try  experimenting with just rotating the camera and doing a normal  
> piano stitch.

I can't play piano, so will resort to simple pano :-)
Yes, the dance card now includes mosaic mode pano shots, normal pano  
shots, with pixel shift, without pixel shift, automatic white balance,  
manual white balance. It's getting bigger than Ben Hur!

Thanks for your help.

Cheers,
-- 
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello Donald,

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 11:02:07 +1100, dgjohnston   
wrote:




I'm a Donald and I don't play the piano either. As they say "Spell check  
is my new wrost enema!"




Ha ha. The dreaded spill chucker, I should have known.


Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Paul Womack]

A pano head merely reduces parallax errors (ideally, but never, to zero).

As I have discovered, mosaicing generates very large parallax errors.

I suggest, during your trials, using a normal 3 way tripod head
to perform the motions of a pano head.

This may not be ideal, but it may be better than mosaicing.

(and a pano head that is far from perfect, but far better
than a normal 3 way head could be knocked up in a shed!)

  BugBear

On 8 November 2015 at 21:46, Terry Duell  wrote:

> Hello Paul,
>
> On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 08:29:39 +1100, Paul Womack 
> wrote:
>
> Moving the painting would, unless your lighting is perfectly uniform,
>> involve moving the painting w.r.t. the lights, which might make a perfect
>> stitch impossible.
>>
>
> Yes that is an issue, and we have more or less decided that keeping the
> painting in a fixed position is probably the better method.
>
> I would (quite strongly) recommend a pano head, home made if need be.
>> Given the lack of major 3d features on a painting it needn't be perfect.
>>
>
> It would be nice to have one, but won't be tackling the home made solution.
>
>
> I would certainly do test shoots with a cheap poster, or something.
>>
>
> This is a test shoot.
>
> Thanks for your advice.
>
> Cheers,
> --
> Regards,
> Terry Duell
>
> --
> A list of frequently asked questions is available at:
> http://wiki.panotools.org/Hugin_FAQ
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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Paul Womack]

On 8 November 2015 at 22:50, Terry Duell  wrote:

> Now I know that it should be possible to correct that in Hugin, and
> normally that works OK but I have had projects where that has proved to be
> a bit of a pain...so all the emphasis on mosaic and how to ensure camera
> square to subject etc.
>

Hmm. I will bet good money that you can measure out of square more
accurately in post production than can during shooting.

Further, if you measure the painting, you can also ensure that the final
stitch is both rectilinear and of the perfect aspect ratio.


  BugBear

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[panostar]

On Monday, November 9, 2015 at 9:05:31 AM UTC, bugbear wrote:
>
>
> (and a pano head that is far from perfect, but far better
> than a normal 3 way head could be knocked up in a shed!)
>

All that is required in this case is a simple plate or bar adapter to shift 
the camera back (or possibly forwards) to align the entrance pupil of the 
lens with the axis of rotation.  That would virtually eliminate horizontal 
parallax.  Any minor shift of the entrance pupil in the vertical direction 
can be can be compensated for by a small adjustment in the height of the 
centre column. Should cost next to nothing and take no more than an hour or 
two to make.

My first panorama head was just such a design and consisted of a strip of 
wood to shift the camera back, and an L-bracket ( an old flash bracket) to 
hold the camera in portrait orientation, but the latter would not be needed 
for the painting panorama.  The wooden bar fitted into the QR of the 
pan&tilt head of the cheap Velbon tripod.

Panohead:  http://www.johnhpanos.com/panhead.jpg
First panorama shot with it 10 years ago: 
 http://www.johnhpanos.com/spherical/zane5000/zane5000.html 

John



 

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello Paul,

On Mon, 09 Nov 2015 20:08:18 +1100, Paul Womack   
wrote:



On 8 November 2015 at 22:50, Terry Duell  wrote:


Now I know that it should be possible to correct that in Hugin, and
normally that works OK but I have had projects where that has proved to  
be

a bit of a pain...so all the emphasis on mosaic and how to ensure camera
square to subject etc.



Hmm. I will bet good money that you can measure out of square more
accurately in post production than can during shooting.


Probably.



Further, if you measure the painting, you can also ensure that the final
stitch is both rectilinear and of the perfect aspect ratio.


Yes.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[bugbear]

panostar wrote:


All that is required in this case is a simple plate or bar adapter to shift the 
camera back (or possibly forwards) to align the entrance pupil of the lens with 
the axis of rotation.  That would virtually eliminate horizontal parallax.  Any 
minor shift of the entrance pupil in the vertical direction can be can be 
compensated for by a small adjustment in the height of the centre column. 
Should cost next to nothing and take no more than an hour or two to make.

My first panorama head was just such a design and consisted of a strip of wood to 
shift the camera back, and an L-bracket ( an old flash bracket) to hold the camera 
in portrait orientation, but the latter would not be needed for the painting 
panorama.  The wooden bar fitted into the QR of the pan&tilt head of the cheap 
Velbon tripod.

Panohead:  http://www.johnhpanos.com/panhead.jpg
First panorama shot with it 10 years ago:  
http://www.johnhpanos.com/spherical/zane5000/zane5000.html


I love that you bothered to paint it black!

 BugBear

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:03:46 +1100,  wrote:


Hello John,


[snip]


You're probably right, if you did it.
For me it would take a day, or so, to sort out where the entrance pupil  
is, then another day, or so, to make the gadget, then another day, or  
so, to test it and...
Why is that blokes who can knock up an 8 speed auto transmission out of  
jam tins before lunch, always reckon it's easy for everyone else :-)




Thinking about this, I feel a bit bad that it might have come across as a  
bit nasty, even with the smiley.
I hope it wasn't received that way, it wasn't meant to be anything but an  
attempt at humour.
I can tend to write my emails as if I'm in conversation, face to face, and  
can be misunderstood.

I know your advice is well meant, and it is appreciated.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[panostar]

On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 9:15:48 PM UTC, Tduell wrote:
>
> On Tue, 10 Nov 2015 10:03:46 +1100,  wrote: 
>
> > Hello John, 
>
> [snip] 
>
> > You're probably right, if you did it. 
> > For me it would take a day, or so, to sort out where the entrance pupil 
>   
> > is, then another day, or so, to make the gadget, then another day, or   
> > so, to test it and... 
> > Why is that blokes who can knock up an 8 speed auto transmission out of 
>   
> > jam tins before lunch, always reckon it's easy for everyone else :-) 
> > 
>
> Thinking about this, I feel a bit bad that it might have come across as a 
>   
> bit nasty, even with the smiley. 
> I hope it wasn't received that way, it wasn't meant to be anything but an 
>   
> attempt at humour.


Terry,I haven't seen where the snipped text came from so I didn't receive 
it any way, and I'm certainly not offended.  I appreciate that many people 
have difficulty in finding the no parallax point and spend days over it. 
 Yet I do find this surprising, given that all you have to do is to look 
into the lens with the aperture stopped down and view the entrance pupil 
directly. You can easily estimate its position to within a couple of mm 
just by using your two eyes.  That's more than adequate in the present 
context.

John
 

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello John,

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 10:17:27 +1100, panostar   
wrote:





Terry,I haven't seen where the snipped text came from so I didn't receive
it any way, and I'm certainly not offended.


Good.


I appreciate that many  people
have difficulty in finding the no parallax point and spend days over it.
Yet I do find this surprising, given that all you have to do is to look
into the lens with the aperture stopped down and view the entrance pupil
directly. You can easily estimate its position to within a couple of mm
just by using your two eyes.  That's more than adequate in the present
context.


I just tried that with my 150-450 lens and the image of the diaphragm is  
in quite different positions at 150mm FL, depending on which end of the  
lens I'm viewing. My guess is a difference of about 75mm.
The locations come much closer together and move towards the camera as the  
FL is increased.

Does that sound sensible, or am I on the wrong track with this?

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Markku Kolkka]

11.11.2015, 4:09, Terry Duell kirjoitti:
> I just tried that with my 150-450 lens and the image of the diaphragm is
> in quite different positions at 150mm FL, depending on which end of the
> lens I'm viewing.

The entrance pupil is the image of the aperture viewed from the _front_
of the lens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrance_pupil
The location changes when zooming or focusing, so the position should be
calibrated with the focal length and focus distance you intend to use
for the actual photo shoot.

The position of the exit pupil (the image from back end) isn't relevant
for panorama photography.

-- 
Markku Kolkka
markku.kol...@iki.fi

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[panostar]

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 2:09:11 AM UTC, Tduell wrote:
>
>
> > I appreciate that many  people 
> > have difficulty in finding the no parallax point and spend days over it. 
> > Yet I do find this surprising, given that all you have to do is to look 
> > into the lens with the aperture stopped down and view the entrance pupil 
> > directly. You can easily estimate its position to within a couple of mm 
> > just by using your two eyes.  That's more than adequate in the present 
> > context. 
>
> I just tried that with my 150-450 lens and the image of the diaphragm is   
> in quite different positions at 150mm FL, depending on which end of the   
> lens I'm viewing. My guess is a difference of about 75mm. 
> The locations come much closer together and move towards the camera as the 
>   
> FL is increased. 
> Does that sound sensible, or am I on the wrong track with this?
>

Terry, Yes, you are on the right track.  If you look into the front of the 
lens you see the entrance pupil.  If you look into the rear of the lens you 
see the exit pupil.  It's the entrance pupil that is located at the no 
parallax point.  For some telephoto lenses at the longest focal length 
setting, the entrance pupil can even be behind the camera.

John

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[Terry Duell]

Hello John,

On Wed, 11 Nov 2015 19:03:21 +1100, panostar   
wrote:





Terry, Yes, you are on the right track.  If you look into the front of  
the lens you see the entrance pupil.  If you look into the rear of the  
lens you see the exit pupil.  It's the entrance pupil that is located at  
the no

parallax point.  For some telephoto lenses at the longest focal length
setting, the entrance pupil can even be behind the camera.



Thanks John.

Cheers,
--
Regards,
Terry Duell

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[bugbear]

Terry Duell wrote:



I just tried that with my 150-450 lens and the image of the diaphragm is in 
quite different positions at 150mm FL, depending on which end of the lens I'm 
viewing. My guess is a difference of about 75mm.
The locations come much closer together and move towards the camera as the FL 
is increased.
Does that sound sensible, or am I on the wrong track with this?


I found my NPP empirically.

I had already made the baseboard of my pano head (which is just a piece of wood
with a hole for a 1/4" bolt, which is what the camera fixes to).

http://s48.photobucket.com/user/bugbear33/media/pano_head.jpg.html

I'd pencilled the line of the axis of the lens (which is physically obvious)
onto the board.

(see attached diagram)

I put a panel pin into a piece of scrap, leaving just the head sticking out,
and put two AA batteries roughly in line, a couple of feet from
the camera, and 6 inches different in distance.

In other words, a subject with worst case parallax.

I then placed the board+camera onto the pin head,
somewhere on the line, and twisted the camera right-left.

There was, of course, lots of parallax movement of the two batteries,
visible in the viewfinder.

I simply moved the camera+board backward and forward
on the line, doing test pivots, until parallax was at a minimum.

Admittedly, a fully adjustable pano head would
allow you to find the NPP with more accuracy, but this
was easy and cheap.

 BugBear

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Re: [hugin-ptx] Shooting and stitching to make Giclee prints

[panostar]

On Wednesday, November 11, 2015 at 9:07:16 AM UTC, bugbear wrote:
>
>
> I put a panel pin into a piece of scrap, leaving just the head sticking 
> out, 
> and put two AA batteries roughly in line, a couple of feet from 
> the camera, and 6 inches different in distance. 
>
> In other words, a subject with worst case parallax. 
>

Snap!  I did the same in 2002:  http://www.johnhpanos.com/nodal.jpg .  It's 
a good method for non-SLR cameras.

Except, your two batteries only 6 inches apart is far from being the worse 
case parallax.  *Both* batteries will exhibit parallax shift and what you 
are seeing is the difference between these two shifts.  It's better to 
compare the near battery with something as far away as possible.  I use a 
window frame in the house across the road as the far reference point.

John

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