date:20070427

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:03:16 +1000, Shane Ginnane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Moving the F BPXOINIT,SHUTDOWN=... commands before the P ZFS also
works, and is our long-term solution. Might also look at using F
OMVS,SHUTDOWN instead to see if that removes the timing exposure.


There is currently an open APAR regarding zFS files getting unmounted in
a shared environment (as in HFS/ZFS sharing) when ZFS is stopped 
with a P ZFS on one LPAR in the sysplex (it's a rare timing issue).  The 
suggested workaround is to use F OMVS,SHUTDOWN
(which I already have been using and instead of P ZFS).  Also, in 
1.8 the command changes to F OMVS,STOPPFS=ZFS, so removing
it completely is one less thing to change when you migrate to 1.8 
or above.

Regards,

Mark
--
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Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group:  G-ITO
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread ITURIEL DO NASCIMENTO NETO

Ira,

Try copying one of these PDSs (IEBCOPY - COPYMOD) to a new one with the 
other blksize, and then proceed with your compare step. 


Atenciosamente / Regards / Saludos 

Ituriel do Nascimento Neto
Banco Bradesco S/A 
4254/DPCD Alphaville 
Engenharia de Software - Sistemas Operacionais Mainframes 
 
Tel: 55 11 4197-2021 Fax: 55 11 4197-2814 


-Mensagem original-
De: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Em nome
de Ira Broussard
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 27 de abril de 2007 01:56
Para: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Assunto: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

I have two load libraries (PDS's) that have different blocksizes. The
modules in the load libraries should be logically equivalent, but
since the blocksizes are different, they are not physically
equivalent. I need to count the occurrences of a given string (i.e.,
change identifier) in each  load module and come up with a total for
each load library. I know I can browse  each member and do a FIND
ALL..., but I would rather do the count in one  shot for each load
library. 
 
ISPF 3.14 and 3.15 (Search For and Extended Search For) tell me how
many lines in each member contain the string and total number of lines
containing the string in the load library. The problem with this is that
in load library A (which has a block size of 32K), the string may
occur three times on a single line in module PROGRAM1, but in load
library B  (which has a blocksize of 6144), the same logical data in
PROGRAM1 takes  up multiple physical records, so the string shows up on
several  lines instead of one, so the count of lines with the string
don't match.
 
I don't see any standard IBM z/OS utilities that will do  this.
 
Thanks,
Ira Broussard



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Re: Best practices for software delivery

2007-04-27 Thread Steve Comstock


Schwarz, Barry A wrote:

Internet is only a reasonable approach when companies are willing to
provide the same level of quality control over their web sites that they
do for their traditional media. Other than the CBT site (thank you Sam)
none of the others I deal with do.  When I'm trying to download the
solution to a problem, I don't need a link to a page that doesn't exist,
some distracting animation, annoying pop-ups, notification that the web
site prefers a different browser, brain dead interfaces that insist you
enter the same information repeatedly, options that are ignored, and out
of date content.

And since I (along with some other subscribers) am not allowed to
connect the mainframe network externally, after paying for the product I
still have to produce my own portable media that I can hand carry over.



Just curious, Barry, do you have an internal intranet? Can you
connect your workstation to the Internet?


Kind regards,

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Re: Monitor refresh rates

2007-04-27 Thread Clark, Kevin

Tony, 

By REFRESH RATE, if you mean screen display updates than that would
depend if you expected some significant changes to have occurred. I like
to handle refresh rates as they relate to the sampling of the monitor.
If the monitor is only collecting 2 to 5 samples during that 20 second
period then many indicators may not have changed. Check those sampling
(collection) rates. More samples on busy PROD LPARS, less on non busy
TEST LPARS.  Aligning these REFRESH RATES with a few WLM sampling
periods would also be more informative and I would raise REFRESH RATE
from 20 on test LPARS for sure.

Kevin  

 You Wrote
I have 14 LPARs each with an Omegamon for MVS monitor running with a
refresh rate of 20 seconds.

Does anyone think that a bit quick? I was thinking a rate of 65 seconds
would be more appropriate.


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Re: Best practices for software delivery

2007-04-27 Thread R.S.


My $0.02:

It's not your, but customer decision. They have money, they make the 
rules. Even silly rules. If they want data on RedWood drive or reels 
*and they pay for that* your role is to provide it.


Obviously from your point of view it is simply to expensive to support 
all possible medias and formats.


The reasonable rich list would be:
- Internet
- CD/DVD (depends on code size)
- 3490E or 3480

I would get rid of obsolete HW and find some company which allow you to 
create the tapes upon request. Of course I would tell customers that 
tape media cost xxx$ extra fee, while CD/DVD and Internet is free of 
(additional) charge. Note, xxx means more than 100$. The value which 
cause manager to ask sysprog: why can't you use CD?.


Another approach would be purchase of second hand tape drive(s) (btw: 
are any new 3490 ? vbg) and simply get rid of regular maintenance.


The best solution depend on number of tapes you have to create, size of 
code and installation method (SMP/E, other).



BTW: Isn't it funny how much time took IBM to start using their own 3592 
format, even in limited scope ?


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Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Tom Marchant

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:14:55 -0300, ITURIEL DO NASCIMENTO NETO 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Ira,

Try copying one of these PDSs (IEBCOPY - COPYMOD) to a new one with the
other blksize, and then proceed with your compare step.

Still might not work.  Unless you can guarantee that each member starts at 
the same location on a track, you will likely have blocks in one PDS that are 
different sizes than the blocks in the other.

If a large load module starts on a new track, you'll have a 32K block at the 
beginning of the track, then a shorter block at the end.  If the same load 
moule starts after a member that ends with a 32K block at the beginning of a 
track, it will start with a smaller block, then have a 32K block at the 
beginning 
of the next track.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Software Manufacturing

2007-04-27 Thread Ed Finnell

In commenting on Ryerson's zOS certification I said Software  Manufacturing 
was based in Toronto. Then you think electronic delivery and  we don't have any 
postmarks. Anyway, got this informative update from  Ontario:
 
quote
Mike/Ed: 

All manufacturing (i.e.  shrink-wrap) for the Americas is now done in 
Boulder, CO. Even custom builds  like z/OS CBPDO are done there. We used to do 
manufacturing for Canada and Latin  America up on 14th Avenue in Markham, but 
that 
moved south 4 or 5 years ago. The  reason is that most all IBM products and 
almost all IBM service are shipped  electronically now (for System z via 
ShopzSeries) so we manufacture less and  less every year. For Sev1 APARs 
where a 
customer insists on a tape (for System  z) we do have the ability to make a 
tape 
at 3600, but again that happens very  rarely now. 

endquote



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Re: Monitor refresh rates

2007-04-27 Thread Tony Hurlston

Kevin,

yes I did mean screen display updates, many thanks for your input

Regards

Tony





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Re: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Jeffrey D. Smith

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Tom Marchant
 Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 7:44 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

 On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:14:55 -0300, ITURIEL DO NASCIMENTO NETO
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ira,

 Try copying one of these PDSs (IEBCOPY - COPYMOD) to a new one with the
 other blksize, and then proceed with your compare step.

 Still might not work.  Unless you can guarantee that each member starts at
 the same location on a track, you will likely have blocks in one PDS that
 are
 different sizes than the blocks in the other.

 If a large load module starts on a new track, you'll have a 32K block at
 the
 beginning of the track, then a shorter block at the end.  If the same load
 moule starts after a member that ends with a 32K block at the beginning of
 a
 track, it will start with a smaller block, then have a 32K block at the
 beginning
 of the next track.

 --
 Tom Marchant

What about some technique for unloading both PDS (either IEBCOPY or
IEHMOVE) to sequential files, then comparing the sequential files? IEHMOVE
is very slow, but it unloads in collating sequence to 80-byte records. If
both PDS is logically the same, then the IEHMOVE output should compare the
same?

Jeffrey D. Smith
Principal Product Architect
Farsight Systems Corporation
700 KEN PRATT BLVD. #204-159
LONGMONT, CO 80501-6452
303-774-9381 direct
303-484-6170 FAX
http://www.farsight-systems.com/

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Re: Monitor refresh rates

2007-04-27 Thread Clark, Kevin

Tony, 

Something else comes to mind. I recall measuring these some monitors and
seeing CPU consumption affective. The REFRESH RATE may also force some
sorting, XMS and other stuff to occur on every 20 seconds. Measure the
delta changes on CPU TIME when you adjust the refresh rates. CPU
consumption will should down within the address space with longer
refresh rates.

Kevin 
-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Clark, Kevin
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:28 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Monitor refresh rates

Tony, 

By REFRESH RATE, if you mean screen display updates than that would
depend if you expected some significant changes to have occurred. I like
to handle refresh rates as they relate to the sampling of the monitor.
If the monitor is only collecting 2 to 5 samples during that 20 second
period then many indicators may not have changed. Check those sampling
(collection) rates. More samples on busy PROD LPARS, less on non busy
TEST LPARS.  Aligning these REFRESH RATES with a few WLM sampling
periods would also be more informative and I would raise REFRESH RATE
from 20 on test LPARS for sure.

Kevin  

 You Wrote
I have 14 LPARs each with an Omegamon for MVS monitor running with a
refresh rate of 20 seconds.

Does anyone think that a bit quick? I was thinking a rate of 65 seconds
would be more appropriate.


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Re: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Tom Marchant

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 08:25:38 -0600, Jeffrey D. Smith wrote:

What about some technique for unloading both PDS (either IEBCOPY or
IEHMOVE) to sequential files, then comparing the sequential files? IEHMOVE
is very slow, but it unloads in collating sequence to 80-byte records. If
both PDS is logically the same, then the IEHMOVE output should compare the
same?

The OP didn't want to compare, but to search both PDSes for a string.  By 
copying to 80 byte records, you increase the probability that the string will 
be 
split across two records.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread John Eells

Tom Marchant wrote:
On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:14:55 -0300, ITURIEL DO NASCIMENTO NETO
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Ira,

Try copying one of these PDSs (IEBCOPY - COPYMOD) to a new one with the
other blksize, and then proceed with your compare step.

Still might not work. Unless you can guarantee that each member starts at
the same location on a track, you will likely have blocks in one PDS that are
different sizes than the blocks in the other.

If a large load module starts on a new track, you'll have a 32K block at the
beginning of the track, then a shorter block at the end. If the same load
moule starts after a member that ends with a 32K block at the beginning of a
track, it will start with a smaller block, then have a 32K block at the beginning
of the next track.

Well...this ain't easy.

Each member must start on a new track, because directory entries
use TTR pointers to PDS members. See (watch for wrap):

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/dgt2d450/3.7.2?ACTION=MATCHESREQUEST=directoryTYPE=EXACTNSHELF=EZ2ZO10hDT=20060524093000CASE=searchTopic=TOPICsearchText=TEXTsearchIndex=INDEXrank=RANKScrollTOP=FIRSTHIT#FIRSTHIT

So there is no worry there.

However, for load modules, any change in device type that changes
the track length (e.g., 3380 - 3390) or cell size (I can't cite
a specific example but if different physical emulations change
the cell size then it counts) can cause text blocks to be
arranged differently on the tracks. This is because COPY won't
split them and COPYMOD will very probably split them differently
for modules longer than one track of the shortest *effective*
length accounting for cell size.

Any difference in the location of the text records will, I think,
cause the control records to change. Any difference in the
length of the text records will certainly cause the control
records to change. This is because control records contain the
length of the next record to be read and a prepared CCW (or part
of one) for reading the next record. This is due to the Loader's
PCI design, which tries to tack CCWs on as it goes to minimize
latency and the number of SSCH's.

See (watch for wrap, again):

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IEA2B260/B.2?SHELF=EZ2ZO10hDT=20060606155355CASE=

While I have never had anything to do with the Linkage Editor,
Binder, Loader, or IEBCOPY, I actually think this design was
quite clever (bordering on brilliant at the time) and must
respectfully disagree with one poster's assertion that it is
WABD where B stands for Badly. The folks who wrote that
code, Lo! these many years ago, had a lot on the ball in my
opinion, back when Giants walked the Earth.

Also, you have to think about what equal means. If the load
module in question contains multiple CSECTs that are represented
by multiple SMP/E MOD entries and the LMOD entry does not include
comprehensive ORDER statements, then the CSECT ordering will be a
function of the order in which CSECTs were added and replaced.

Consider two different target zones that are maintained at
different times over a year or two. Even if they are now at the
same service level there is no guarantee that the very same PTFs
affecting a particular load module were installed in the same
order if you (as would be rational) use current HOLDDATA and
GROUPEXTEND at APPLY time. The resulting load modules might have
a different order. The same can be true, for the same underlying
reason, of two load modules comprising MOD-represented unordered
CSECTs at the same service level delivered in different ServerPac
orders built at different times.

Even LOADing these resulting modules at the same starting address
would not show them to be binary equivalents, though they would
of course be functionally equivalent. You could, I suppose, use
LOAD to load the first one, use MVC(L) to copy it to another
storage area, DELETE it, LOAD the second, copy it to a second
storage area, figure out where the CSECTs started and ended,
compute the new address constants, replace them, and compare the
results CSECT by CSECT...but if I forgot anything (or quite
possibly got some of it wrong ;-) then it still would not work
perfectly.

Naturally, if the CSECTs are ordered differently the text records
will differ in content, and possibly (in some or most cases,
probably) in length as well.

Of course, the same goes for non-SMP/E-maintained libraries whose
load modules are not always bound using comprehensive ORDER
statements. (I would expect them to be in the majority, but what
do I know?)

For Ira's original request, which was to find the number of
occurrences of a specific string in different copies of load
module at different block sizes, it seems to me that LOADing all
the modules in a particular library in turn to search for the
string in question should work. Also, unless I'm missing
something, I think it should work equally well for

Re: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread john gilmore

An obvious way to do this is to load object A into below-the-bar storage, 
move it above the bar, load object B into below-the-bar storage, move it too 
above the bar, and then compare them there.


These operations are much more straightforward than they sound; and I am 
myself dubious about the use of counts, c(A) and c(B), of the occurrences of 
the same substring S in each of them as a surrogate for a comparison 
operation.


John Gilmore
Ashland, MA 01721-1817
USA

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Re: Best practices for software delivery

2007-04-27 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.computers as well.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Schwarz, Barry A) writes:
 Internet is only a reasonable approach when companies are willing to
 provide the same level of quality control over their web sites that they
 do for their traditional media. Other than the CBT site (thank you Sam)
 none of the others I deal with do.  When I'm trying to download the
 solution to a problem, I don't need a link to a page that doesn't exist,
 some distracting animation, annoying pop-ups, notification that the web
 site prefers a different browser, brain dead interfaces that insist you
 enter the same information repeatedly, options that are ignored, and out
 of date content.

old email here from somebody in corporate hdqtrs (in this x-over thread
from vmesa-l list) ... asking if HSDT project had been thinking about
how to do this sort of stuff ... 
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#39 Does anyone know of a documented case 
of VM being benetrated by hackers?

this was in the timeframe when we had been doing work w/NSF on what was
to become NSFNET (tcp/ip is the technology basis for the modern
internet, but we claim that NSFNET was the operational basis for the
modern internet, aka high-speed backbone providing internetworking of
networks). some of the old email on the subject from the period
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#nsfnet

lots of past posts mentioning HSDT project
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subnetwork.html#hsdt

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Re: sysdsn enq

2007-04-27 Thread Paul Gilmartin

In a recent note, Edward Jaffe said:

 Subject:  Re: sysdsn enq
 
 Ted MacNEIL wrote:
  After all, batch processing FREEs all data sets between steps, but
  continues to hold the ENQ if a subsequent step uses the same data set name.
 
  I don't thinks that's accurate.
  DSN allocation is not cleared until EOJ.
 
 Deallocated and the ENQ released after the last job step that uses it.
 
I'll agree with the unattributed quotation, FREEs all data sets between steps,
rather than Ed and Ted here.  From:

Title: z/OS V1R6.0 MVS JCL User's Guide
Document Number: SA22-7598-04

  4.2.1.1 Data Set Integrity Processing

   When the system has secured control of all permanent data sets,
   it allocates and unallocates resources for each step of the job.
   The job terminates after the system has unallocated all resources
   for the last step in the job.

The phrasing unallocates resources for each step makes it clear enough
for me, taking FREE as synonymous with unallocate.

-- gil
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Re: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Paul Gilmartin

In a recent note, john gilmore said:

 Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2007 15:05:54 +
 
 An obvious way to do this is to load object A into below-the-bar storage,
 move it above the bar, load object B into below-the-bar storage, move it too
 above the bar, and then compare them there.
 
In one case, we did an AMBLIST of each load module and compared with SuperC
the SYSPRINTs from those two steps.  This readily uncovered a bad displacement
due to a downlevel library macro.

-- gil
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Re: sysdsn enq

2007-04-27 Thread Clark Morris

On 27 Apr 2007 08:42:12 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main you wrote:

In a recent note, Edward Jaffe said:

 Subject:  Re: sysdsn enq
 
 Ted MacNEIL wrote:
  After all, batch processing FREEs all data sets between steps, but
  continues to hold the ENQ if a subsequent step uses the same data set 
  name.
 
  I don't thinks that's accurate.
  DSN allocation is not cleared until EOJ.
 
 Deallocated and the ENQ released after the last job step that uses it.
 
I'll agree with the unattributed quotation, FREEs all data sets between 
steps,
rather than Ed and Ted here.  From:

Title: z/OS V1R6.0 MVS JCL User's Guide
Document Number: SA22-7598-04

  4.2.1.1 Data Set Integrity Processing

   When the system has secured control of all permanent data sets,
   it allocates and unallocates resources for each step of the job.
   The job terminates after the system has unallocated all resources
   for the last step in the job.

The phrasing unallocates resources for each step makes it clear enough
for me, taking FREE as synonymous with unallocate.

In JES3 the enqueue on the DSN is held on the data set with possible
downgrading until last use.  I believe that it is also held if the
data set is passed regardless of spooler.  

-- gil

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Re: Latest Principles of Operation

2007-04-27 Thread Dean Kent

Rick Fochtman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 --snip---

 Complexity is far too often used as an excuse for incompetence or
 laziness; not always or even most of the time, but still far too often.
 You don't let a carpenter into your house if he doesn't know how to use
 his tools, do you

The human mind has a limited capacity for organizing information into
something meaningful.  It would be interesting to see a graph showing the
percentage of people able to properly handle various levels of complexity,
and I suspect that as the complexity increases the dropoff would become more
and more dramatic vs. something more linear.  Therefore, rather than an
excuse, concern about complexity would seem to be a very real one.   Were
the carpenter's tools to be come so complex that only the most talented of
people could use them, carpentry would likely become so expensive as to
eventually become a lost art, or at best an extremely arcane one.   Do you
disagree?

Regards,
   Dean

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3480/3490 Cart BPI

2007-04-27 Thread Robert Pelletier

Hi All. Question. Would anyone know the BPI of a 3480 cart running on
3480E drive (mock 3490). We have a request from a user to send us a
38,000 bpi cart. I swear they are 6250 bpi. Can anyone clear this up for
me? Where are they getting the 38,000? Thanks once again all. 


Have a Nice Day !
 
Bob Pelletier
Connecticut Student Loan Foundation
Rocky Hill, Ct.

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Re: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

2007-04-27 Thread Rich Smrcina

6250 was 3420.  The 3480 is 38K.  Use DITTO to print the header and it 
will show you.


Robert Pelletier wrote:

Hi All. Question. Would anyone know the BPI of a 3480 cart running on
3480E drive (mock 3490). We have a request from a user to send us a
38,000 bpi cart. I swear they are 6250 bpi. Can anyone clear this up for
me? Where are they getting the 38,000? Thanks once again all. 



Have a Nice Day !
 
Bob Pelletier

Connecticut Student Loan Foundation
Rocky Hill, Ct.

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--
Rich Smrcina
VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: 414-491-6001
Ans Service:  360-715-2467
rich.smrcina at vmassist.com

Catch the WAVV!  http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2007 - Green Bay, WI - May 18-22, 2007

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Re: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

2007-04-27 Thread Pommier, Rex R.

I'm 99% positive the 3480/3490 native density was 38000 bpi.  The old
3420 reel tape was 6250.

Rex 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Pelletier
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:08 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

Hi All. Question. Would anyone know the BPI of a 3480 cart running on
3480E drive (mock 3490). We have a request from a user to send us a
38,000 bpi cart. I swear they are 6250 bpi. Can anyone clear this up for
me? Where are they getting the 38,000? Thanks once again all. 

Have a Nice Day !

Bob Pelletier
Connecticut Student Loan Foundation
Rocky Hill, Ct.

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Re: JES2 Shutdown issue on z/os 1.7

2007-04-27 Thread Dennis Trojak

We are running ZFS under SUB=MSTR so it has no conflict with JES2
shutdown.
Dennis

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Shane Ginnane
Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2007 9:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: JES2 Shutdown issue on z/os 1.7

Rogers wrote on 27/04/2007 02:21:07 AM:

 We just migrated from 1.4 to 1.7 on our production lpar about 1.5
weeks
 ago.
 The first shutdown on 1.7 caused JES2 not to come down clean, thus
 forcing an ABEND to end it.
 Our second shutdown did the same thing.

 All of our NJE line  printer are DRAINED.
 Every thing looks fine, but I think it may be due to either ZFS or USS
 causing this problem.
 What am I missing here? 

 Has anyone else seen this problem under 1.7?

As suggested, probably zFS.
My ops reported this last week on our test system - I presumed it was 
recent as we have been 1.7 since December. I've certainly never seen it 
before when I've done shutdowns (I added zFS with 1.7).
JES2 queries ($DA,X) show nothing.

In this case the customer has no real automation - uses a VTAMAPPL like 
system; bunch of commands in a member, with some WAITs. The stop for zFS

was just in front of the F BPXOINIT,SHUTDOWN=... commands.
Just did some test. Looking at the log, the F
BPXOINIT,SHUTDOWN=FILESYS 
never responded, and obviously isn't smart enough to pend until the zFS 
shutdown completes.
Re-issuing the F BPXOINIT,SHUTDOWN=FILESYS resolves the issue so JES2 
can terminate cleanly in response to (another) $PJES2.

Moving the F BPXOINIT,SHUTDOWN=... commands before the P ZFS also 
works, and is our long-term solution. Might also look at using F 
OMVS,SHUTDOWN instead to see if that removes the timing exposure.

Shane ...

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Re: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

2007-04-27 Thread Robert Pelletier

Thanks I am DITTOing it as we speak. 


Have a Nice Day !
 
Bob Pelletier
Connecticut Student Loan Foundation
Rocky Hill, Ct.

-Original Message-
From: Pommier, Rex R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

I'm 99% positive the 3480/3490 native density was 38000 bpi.  The old
3420 reel tape was 6250.

Rex 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Pelletier
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:08 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

Hi All. Question. Would anyone know the BPI of a 3480 cart running on
3480E drive (mock 3490). We have a request from a user to send us a
38,000 bpi cart. I swear they are 6250 bpi. Can anyone clear this up for
me? Where are they getting the 38,000? Thanks once again all. 


Have a Nice Day !
 
Bob Pelletier
Connecticut Student Loan Foundation
Rocky Hill, Ct.

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Re: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

2007-04-27 Thread Robert Pelletier

Thanks All. Group is such a valuable resource to me: 
DITTO/ESA for MVS

* * * * Device 0469, CART, VOLSER=TC1476, 18 Track, 38K-BPI,  Uprotect

Block   Record  Data 

Should have thought to DITTO it. Thanks again.



Have a Nice Day !
 
Bob Pelletier
Connecticut Student Loan Foundation
Rocky Hill, Ct.

-Original Message-
From: Robert Pelletier 
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

Thanks I am DITTOing it as we speak. 


Have a Nice Day !
 
Bob Pelletier
Connecticut Student Loan Foundation
Rocky Hill, Ct.

-Original Message-
From: Pommier, Rex R. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 12:15 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

I'm 99% positive the 3480/3490 native density was 38000 bpi.  The old
3420 reel tape was 6250.

Rex 

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Pelletier
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:08 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: 3480/3490 Cart BPI

Hi All. Question. Would anyone know the BPI of a 3480 cart running on
3480E drive (mock 3490). We have a request from a user to send us a
38,000 bpi cart. I swear they are 6250 bpi. Can anyone clear this up for
me? Where are they getting the 38,000? Thanks once again all. 


Have a Nice Day !
 
Bob Pelletier
Connecticut Student Loan Foundation
Rocky Hill, Ct.

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Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Tom Marchant

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:13 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Tom Marchant wrote:
 On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:14:55 -0300, ITURIEL DO NASCIMENTO NETO
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Ira,

 Try copying one of these PDSs (IEBCOPY - COPYMOD) to a new one with 
the
 other blksize, and then proceed with your compare step.

 Still might not work.  Unless you can guarantee that each member starts at
 the same location on a track, you will likely have blocks in one PDS that are
 different sizes than the blocks in the other.

 If a large load module starts on a new track, you'll have a 32K block at the
 beginning of the track, then a shorter block at the end.  If the same load
 moule starts after a member that ends with a 32K block at the beginning of 
a
 track, it will start with a smaller block, then have a 32K block at the 
beginning
 of the next track.


Well...this ain't easy.

Each member must start on a new track, because directory entries
use TTR pointers to PDS members.  See (watch for wrap):

Not true.  The TTR points to the track and record number where the member 
starts.  I just looked at one of my load libraries that has 27 members and is 
using 19 tracks.  This would be impossible if each member had to start on a 
new track.  It would also be very inefficient.

SYS1.LINKLIB on one system here has 3725 members and is using 70% of 3318 
tracks.  SYS1.LPALIB has 1695 members and is using 79% of 909 tracks.

-- 
Tom Marchant

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Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread John Eells


Tom Marchant wrote:

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:13 -0400, John Eells [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Tom Marchant wrote:

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:14:55 -0300, ITURIEL DO NASCIMENTO NETO
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Ira,

Try copying one of these PDSs (IEBCOPY - COPYMOD) to a new one with 

the

other blksize, and then proceed with your compare step.

Still might not work.  Unless you can guarantee that each member starts at
the same location on a track, you will likely have blocks in one PDS that are
different sizes than the blocks in the other.

If a large load module starts on a new track, you'll have a 32K block at the
beginning of the track, then a shorter block at the end.  If the same load
moule starts after a member that ends with a 32K block at the beginning of 

a
track, it will start with a smaller block, then have a 32K block at the 

beginning

of the next track.


Well...this ain't easy.

Each member must start on a new track, because directory entries
use TTR pointers to PDS members.  See (watch for wrap):


Not true.  The TTR points to the track and record number where the member 
starts.  I just looked at one of my load libraries that has 27 members and is 
using 19 tracks.  This would be impossible if each member had to start on a 
new track.  It would also be very inefficient.


SYS1.LINKLIB on one system here has 3725 members and is using 70% of 3318 
tracks.  SYS1.LPALIB has 1695 members and is using 79% of 909 tracks.




Doh!  That's what the R stands for, of course.  You're 
completely right.


--
John Eells
z/OS Technical Marketing
IBM Poughkeepsie
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Best practices for software delivery

2007-04-27 Thread Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)

In
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
on 04/27/2007
   at 04:12 AM, Schwarz, Barry A [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

Internet is only a reasonable approach when companies are willing to
provide the same level of quality control over their web sites

The WWW is not the Internet. Why not use FTP?
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see http://patriot.net/~shmuel/resume/brief.html 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Best practices for software delivery

2007-04-27 Thread Howard Brazee

On 27 Apr 2007 10:36:01 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Shmuel
Metz , Seymour J.) wrote:

Internet is only a reasonable approach when companies are willing to
provide the same level of quality control over their web sites

The WWW is not the Internet. Why not use FTP?

Offer whatever your customers want - and you can deliver safely within
your guidelines.

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Re: Latest Principles of Operation

2007-04-27 Thread Howard Brazee

On 27 Apr 2007 09:07:25 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dean Kent) wrote:

The human mind has a limited capacity for organizing information into
something meaningful.  It would be interesting to see a graph showing the
percentage of people able to properly handle various levels of complexity,
and I suspect that as the complexity increases the dropoff would become more
and more dramatic vs. something more linear.  Therefore, rather than an
excuse, concern about complexity would seem to be a very real one.   Were
the carpenter's tools to be come so complex that only the most talented of
people could use them, carpentry would likely become so expensive as to
eventually become a lost art, or at best an extremely arcane one.   Do you
disagree?

A lot of our smarts is in seeing patterns, simplifying what we are
looking for.   Occasionally this kind of shortcut causes us to miss
things, but pattern recognition allows the chess master to ignore dead
ends that poorer players waste time on.

I see craftsmen and artists using tools that are difficult to master -
but supply and demand doesn't take that into consideration in setting
prices for their goods.

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Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Ira Broussard

 
I have given up on the idea of doing this via an IBM utility or ISPF  
function (like SEARCH FOR). Instead, I'm playing around with a REXX EXEC using  
ISPF 
services that will do the following...
 
1. Build a list containing the names of each of the modules  in the old 
load library.
2. Read each module, record by record, into a single REXX variable  string so 
I end up with one large string that contains the entire module.
3. Scan the resulting data string looking for the character string I'm  
interested in and count the number of occurrences of the string.
4. Repeat 2 and 3 for each module in the load library.
5. Repeat 1 thru 4 for the new load library.
6. Display totals.
 
Initial tests suggest this will work, but I haven't thought about all of  the 
possibilities. Note that an occasional false negative (reporting that  the 
load libraries contain different numbers of occurrences of the string  when 
they really have the same count) is much more acceptable than a false  
positive (reporting that the load libraries contain the same number of  
occurrences 
when they really don't).
 
Comments?
 
Thanks,
Ira
 
In a message dated 4/27/2007 11:45:27 A.M. Central Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Tom  Marchant wrote:
 On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 11:01:13 -0400, John Eells  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Tom Marchant  wrote:
 On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 10:14:55 -0300, ITURIEL DO  NASCIMENTO NETO
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:

  Ira,

 Try copying one of these PDSs  (IEBCOPY - COPYMOD) to a new one with 
 the
 other  blksize, and then proceed with your compare step.
 Still might  not work.  Unless you can guarantee that each member starts  
at
 the same location on a track, you will likely have blocks  in one PDS 
that are
 different sizes than the blocks in the  other.

 If a large load module starts on a new  track, you'll have a 32K block at 
the
 beginning of the track,  then a shorter block at the end.  If the same 
load
 moule  starts after a member that ends with a 32K block at the beginning 
of 
  a
 track, it will start with a smaller block, then have a 32K  block at the 
 beginning
 of the next  track.

 Well...this ain't  easy.

 Each member must start on a new track, because  directory entries
 use TTR pointers to PDS members.  See  (watch for wrap):
 
 Not true.  The TTR points to the track  and record number where the member 
 starts.  I just looked at one  of my load libraries that has 27 members and 
is 
 using 19  tracks.  This would be impossible if each member had to start on 
a  
 new track.  It would also be very inefficient.
 
  SYS1.LINKLIB on one system here has 3725 members and is using 70% of 3318  
 tracks.  SYS1.LPALIB has 1695 members and is using 79% of 909  tracks.
 

Doh!  That's what the R stands for, of  course.  You're 
completely right.

-- 
John Eells
z/OS  Technical Marketing
IBM  Poughkeepsie
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: latest Principles of Operation

2007-04-27 Thread john gilmore


Dean Kent writes:



The human mind has a limited capacity for organizing information into
something meaningful.  It would be interesting to see a graph showing the
percentage of people able to properly handle various levels of complexity,
and I suspect that as the complexity increases the dropoff would become 
more

and more dramatic vs. something more linear.  Therefore, rather than an
excuse, concern about complexity would seem to be a very real one.



Views like his are common, but they are also curiously parochial.   Someone 
who wants to do physics is expected to master the necessary techniques, and 
if he cannot it is politely but firmly made clear to him that he must do 
something else.


With programmers, on the other hand, we too often proceed very differently.  
Statement-level procedural languages like COBOL are frequently subsetted, 
the use of notionally difficult language features being interdicted as 
too complex in many shops.  It would be much better to interdict 
professional programming to anyone who cannot master all of the features of 
any of these SLPLs.


John Gilmore
Ashland, MA 01721-1817
USA

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parsing JCL with CA-7 schedule overrides

I'm doing weird things again. I've written a JCL parser (work still in
progress) in Perl (yes, I'm quite, quite insane.). It works rather well.
The only gotcha is that we use CA-7 and the schedule override
capability (#JI, #JO, #JEND / #XI, #XO, #XEND). This is a kind of
if/then/else logic in the JCL as to which statements are written to
the INTRDR. As an example:

//JOBNAME JOB ACCT,PGMR,
#JI,ID=1
// CLASS=P,MSGCLASS=N
#JO,ID=1
// CLASS=Q,MSGCLASS=X
#JEND

This submits the job with CLASS=P,MSGCLASS=N if the schedule id is 1,
but with CLASS=Q,MSGCLASS=X if it is not 1. I'm having a real difficult
time figuring out what to do if this sort of thing is used. Now, at our
shop, this has only caused 8 jobs to have problems out of 7,720 that I
have scanned. But I like to be complete.

Any ideas as to what I should do in this case? It could become quite
complicated. The simpliest thing is to simply say: You do this and you
live with the fact that I cannot parse it. But I don't like that, at
all. The difficult thing would be to try to create every possible
combination of statements possible, then parse them each individually. I
have not thought about how to do this, but it scares me.

I think that I can use ignore the other CA-7 control functions which
are in line (such as #SCC).

So far, I've only done the inline JCL scanning. I haven't yet tried to
expand PROCs or INCLUDE members.

--
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Senior Systems Programmer
HealthMarkets
Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage
Administrative Services Group
Information Technology

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Re: Best practices for software delivery

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
 Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:57 AM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: Best practices for software delivery

 In
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 eing.com,
 on 04/27/2007
at 04:12 AM, Schwarz, Barry A [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:

 Internet is only a reasonable approach when companies are willing to
 provide the same level of quality control over their web sites

 The WWW is not the Internet. Why not use FTP?

 -- 
  Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT

Well, ftp is insecure. I might go with sftp or https or some other
encrypted method. I guess it depends on the level of security/paranoia
required. 

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video game chips on main frames

2007-04-27 Thread Barkow, Eileen

In case anyone missed this article yesterday - note the paragraph about
'old-fashioned mainframes' which are not so old fashioned after all.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18325591/


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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

2007-04-27 Thread Ron Hawkins

Mark and co,

I've always been of the opinion that with the advent of Disk Arrays, DEFRAG
became useless. It has become one of the biggest waste of time and resources
that I come across in way too many shops.

For performance, DEFRAG is going to provide almost nil improvement for
sequential, and less for random where the volume you just spent all that
time reorganizing is spread across 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32 spindles and sharing
those disks with 100s of other volumes.

I agree it can help with space allocation, but I can think of a dozen better
ways to mitigate space problems than by thrashing your channels and disk
drives for a couple of hours every day. It's a great way to trash your
remote copy links.

In the Windows world DEFRAG is a necessary evil because of the file
structures. Consolidating files can make drastic improvements in sequential
performance in FAT and NFTS. However, this does not apply to the z/OS world,
but the myth continues.

Ron

 
 I'm inclined to agree; continue the DEFRAG operations.
 
 Depends.  If you defined / migrated all of the DASD to say ... mod-27 or
 larger, you probably never need to worry about contiguous space.  :-)
 
 Mark

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PDSE Used pages

2007-04-27 Thread Larry Dinwiddie

I am trying to obtain the pages used in a PDSE from an assembler
program.  Looking at the manual, I put GETSIZE=YES on my DCBE and
thought the field DCBESIZE would have the used blocks after the OPEN,
but it doesn't.  It contains all zeros.  I must be doing something wrong
or I am looking in the wrong place.  Anyone have any suggestions where I
can obtain this information.


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Re: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

2007-04-27 Thread Ron Hawkins

Tom,

While you don't see the activity on the channels with FCV2, you can
certainly see it on the disks.

It can be especially interesting if you start hitting those volumes with
updates right after the DEFRAG is finished. While z/OS thinks it's writing
to empty space, the destage has to wait for the FCV2 sessions to run through
a COW process.

Yes, it did work much better on the Iceberg.

Ron



 
 Doesn't really have anything to do with ECKD, it has more to do with how
 DADSM allocates datasets on a volume.  He still looks at the freespace in
 the VTOC, so if the freespace ain't contiguous, some allocations may still
 fail.  Most DEFRAGs will use FlashCopy or SnapShot under the covers, so
 you
 shouldn't see the huge times in ENQ and data movement that you used to see
 with DEFRAG (or COMPAKTOR if using FDR).
 
 Regards,
 Tom Conley
 

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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:33:52 +0800, Ron Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mark and co,

I've always been of the opinion that with the advent of Disk Arrays, DEFRAG
became useless. 

Disagree.  That did nothing for fragmentation.  That was always the primary
purpose of defrag - not performance.  Consolidating extents was just an
extra benefit.  It wasn't until large DASD and DFSMS changes came about  
(or using ISV products that have STOPX37 functionality) that made DEFRAG 
pretty much obsolete.  If extent consolidation is really what you want, FDR
COMPAKTOR can do that part only without defragging the entire volume.

It has become one of the biggest waste of time and resources
that I come across in way too many shops.

Agree.


For performance, DEFRAG is going to provide almost nil improvement for
sequential, and less for random where the volume you just spent all that
time reorganizing is spread across 2, 4, 8, 16 or 32 spindles and sharing
those disks with 100s of other volumes.


Agree.  I don't know of any shops that ever ran DEFRAG or FDR COMPAKTOR
that claimed it was for performance reasons.  But someone did mention
that in this thread.  

I agree it can help with space allocation, but I can think of a dozen better
ways to mitigate space problems than by thrashing your channels and disk
drives for a couple of hours every day. It's a great way to trash your
remote copy links.

Yes, there are better ways.  Taking advantage of the DFSMS changes 
are one example.  Don't know if I can think of 11 others, but there 
are others.

Mark
--
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Sr. Software and Systems Architect - z/OS Team Lead
Zurich North America / Farmers Insurance Group:  G-ITO
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Systems Programming expert at http://expertanswercenter.techtarget.com/
Mark's MVS Utilities: http://home.flash.net/~mzelden/mvsutil.html

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Re: PDSE Used pages

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Larry Dinwiddie
 Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:34 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: PDSE Used pages

 I am trying to obtain the pages used in a PDSE from an assembler
 program.  Looking at the manual, I put GETSIZE=YES on my DCBE and
 thought the field DCBESIZE would have the used blocks after the OPEN,
 but it doesn't.  It contains all zeros.  I must be doing 
 something wrong
 or I am looking in the wrong place.  Anyone have any 
 suggestions where I
 can obtain this information.

Do you have a large amount of money available? if so, then you can buy a
manual from IBM about how to do this. Oh, and you don't get updates. And
you must sign an NDA. This information is proprietary and IBM ain't
gonna tell you how to get it.

However, if you are licensed for ISPF, then you can get the information
from the LMDLIST service. But this means that your assembler program
must run under ISPF in a batch TSO session.

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Re: Maintenance how current? was APAR OA16372

2007-04-27 Thread Scott Fagen

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 08:40:54 -0700, Craig Bakken [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 This may be somewhat of a religious question, Is it better to be right up
to the
 current level of available maintenance or is it better to hang back a few
months
 worth so as not to apply a PTF that goes PE?  Is Z/OS 1.8 so buggy that
current 
 maintenance is required?

For religious questions, you should at least have some exposure to the
dogma.  You
might consider having a look at:

http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/zseries/zos/servicetst/index.html

To see what the true belief is.

Scott Fagen
z/OS Core Technology Design
IBM Poughkeepsie

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Re: parsing JCL with CA-7 schedule overrides

2007-04-27 Thread Walt Farrell


On 4/27/2007 2:09 PM, McKown, John wrote:

I'm doing weird things again. I've written a JCL parser (work still in
progress) in Perl (yes, I'm quite, quite insane.). It works rather well.
...snipped...
This submits the job with CLASS=P,MSGCLASS=N if the schedule id is 1,
but with CLASS=Q,MSGCLASS=X if it is not 1. I'm having a real difficult
time figuring out what to do if this sort of thing is used. Now, at our
shop, this has only caused 8 jobs to have problems out of 7,720 that I
have scanned. But I like to be complete.

Any ideas as to what I should do in this case? It could become quite
complicated. The simpliest thing is to simply say: You do this and you
live with the fact that I cannot parse it. But I don't like that, at
all. The difficult thing would be to try to create every possible
combination of statements possible, then parse them each individually. I
have not thought about how to do this, but it scares me.


I hesitate to make a recommendation about what you should do in this 
situation without knowing why you're writing such a parser, and what the 
ultimate outcome of running it will be, and what you will do with the 
results.


Walt

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Re: parsing JCL with CA-7 schedule overrides

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Walt Farrell
 Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:10 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: parsing JCL with CA-7 schedule overrides

snip

 I hesitate to make a recommendation about what you should do in this 
 situation without knowing why you're writing such a parser, 
 and what the 
 ultimate outcome of running it will be, and what you will do with the 
 results.

   Walt

This is another of my learning experiences. If I am successful, I will
show it to my manager. He may then determine that it is useless. On the
other hand, he might determine it to be useful for some JCL cross
reference processing that I wish we would do, but don't due to the cost
of the OEM software required to do it.

IOW, I am working on self directed projects on my off time. In
particular, I am doing this mainly at home on my Linux system. Which
explains why it is in Perl and not HLASM.

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Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Tim Hare

Why not do this in Assembler?  There are interfaces for reading the 
directory of the PDS; then do a LOAD, [insert your scan of the loaded load 
module here], DELETE for each load module? LOAD will return the address 
and length of the entire module loaded, if I am not mistaken, which is 
easier than assembling the module in Rexx, I think.


Tim Hare
Senior Systems Programmer
Florida Department of Transportation
(850) 414-4209

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Re: parsing JCL with CA-7 schedule overrides

2007-04-27 Thread Scott Barry

Humbly, it's amusing that we haven't mentioned why you'd write a parser without 
considering some of
the already-stated inherent architecture deficiencies, likely identified during 
your design phase
which would normally occur before your coding phase.  Or maybe it's a 
pet-project, with the
disclaimer don't try this at home?

I would submit that you're destined for questionable credibility, given basic 
JCL PROCs (instream
with PEND, JCLLIB and JES-PROCxx/PROC00), SET symbolics, INCLUDE, JCLLIB and 
IF/THEN/ENDIF, and
COND= (conditional execution) considerations, unless the batch JCL environment 
is very primitive,
not to mention legacy vs. current coding techniques (DCB= deprecated with 
subparameters now allowed
for many years as standalone DD parameters).

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Respectfully,

Scott Barry
SBBWorks, Inc.

On 4/27/2007 2:09 PM, McKown, John wrote:
 I'm doing weird things again. I've written a JCL parser (work still in
 progress) in Perl (yes, I'm quite, quite insane.). It works rather well.
 ...snipped...
 This submits the job with CLASS=P,MSGCLASS=N if the schedule id is 1,
 but with CLASS=Q,MSGCLASS=X if it is not 1. I'm having a real difficult
 time figuring out what to do if this sort of thing is used. Now, at our
 shop, this has only caused 8 jobs to have problems out of 7,720 that I
 have scanned. But I like to be complete.
 
 Any ideas as to what I should do in this case? It could become quite
 complicated. The simpliest thing is to simply say: You do this and you
 live with the fact that I cannot parse it. But I don't like that, at
 all. The difficult thing would be to try to create every possible
 combination of statements possible, then parse them each individually. I
 have not thought about how to do this, but it scares me.

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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

DEFRAG became useless.

I have not defragged for performance for years.
But, extent problems will always be with us, until we can predict, effectively, 
how big our operational files will be as the business grows.

Yesterday's large files are today's small ones.
Extent consolidation is the only valid reason for defrag.

By operational files, I mean:
Customer info,
Account num,
Inventory control,
Grapple grommets.
Whatever things your company manages to stay in business.
-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!  

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Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Ira Broussard

 
It only takes a few REXX statements to read in  and concatenate the module in 
memory. Put it in a DO loop until EOF. LMGET  a record into a variable. If 
not EOF, one REXX statement will concatenate it,  i.e.,...
 
modulearea = modulearea || inputrecord
 
If EOF, move to the next module.
 
Looks like the entire EXEC to process all the modules in the load  library 
will only be about 100 lines of code.
 
Ira
 
In a message dated 4/27/2007 2:23:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Why not  do this in Assembler?  There are interfaces for reading the 
directory  of the PDS; then do a LOAD, [insert your scan of the loaded load 
module  here], DELETE for each load module? LOAD will return the address 
and  length of the entire module loaded, if I am not mistaken, which is 
easier  than assembling the module in Rexx, I think.


Tim Hare
Senior  Systems Programmer
Florida Department of Transportation
(850)  414-4209

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** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

STOPX37 functionality) that made DEFRAG 
pretty much obsolete.  If extent consolidation is really what you want, FDR 
COMPAKTOR...

Unfortunately, these things cost money.

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!  

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Re: Latest Principles of Operation

2007-04-27 Thread Dean Kent

Howard Brazee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 A lot of our smarts is in seeing patterns, simplifying what we are
 looking for.   Occasionally this kind of shortcut causes us to miss
 things, but pattern recognition allows the chess master to ignore dead
 ends that poorer players waste time on.

 I see craftsmen and artists using tools that are difficult to master -
 but supply and demand doesn't take that into consideration in setting
 prices for their goods.

You are simplifying a complex subject and coming to an invalid conclusion, I
think.  :-).

If one were to add one new square to the chessboard every few years and a
new piece on occasion, the number of people able to master the game would
diminish each time.   At some point nobody would actually be able to master
the game.  One might say that mastery is a relative thing, and those who
play best would still be masters, but you would still be reducing the number
of individuals actually attempting to master it.   I would also point out
that if you *removed* a square on occasion, along with a piece, you would
start seeing a much greater number of people who can master the game, and
likely a greater number of people actually attempting it... thereby making
the value of a master much less.   Which one is desireable depends entirely
on your objective - do you want to get more people using your game boards,
or do you want to make it a real achievement to be a master?

As far as supply and demand goes, prices are most certainly set by how many
people are able to master the skill.  If anyone could build nice cabinets
because the tools and techniques were relatively simple, carpenters would
not be able to charge much at all - as the supply of 'skilled' carpenters
would equal or exceed the demand.  Conversely, if the tools and techniques
are so difficult that only a very few could build something considered
reasonable quality, those few would be able to demand extremely high prices
that only the very wealthy could afford.

Having a child who is a figure skater, I can say that if the requirement to
win becomes a quintuple axle there are going to be far fewer individuals
able to compete unless the training techniques and tools allow the skills to
be learned more easily.   As it stands, only the wealthiest (or most
fortunate by way of sponsorship) of people can afford to have their children
learn the skills to compete in this sport.  It is likely one of the most
complex and difficult of skills, requiring 15-20 hours or more per week of
practice for many years by *kids*, expensive and specialized equipment, and
hours of personalized coaching.   I daresay that this was almost certainly
not required when a double axle was the greatest skill level necessary.
The number of people that start has increased because the financial rewards
have increased dramatically - but the attrition rate is astounding and few
actually acquire the skills necessary to continue competing after the age of
13.

One might say that this is a good thing in an environment where you want to
limit the participants and only end up with the cream of the crop.  But, if
you are in an environment where you actually wish to *expand* the use (as
IBM might wish, or those who want to have job opportunities might wish),
making it more complex seems to be the wrong way to go, if you have the
choice.

Regards,
   Dean

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Re: Latest Principles of Operation

2007-04-27 Thread Anne Lynn Wheeler

The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted to bit.listserv.ibm-main,alt.folklore.comupters as well.

Howard Brazee [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 A lot of our smarts is in seeing patterns, simplifying what we are
 looking for.   Occasionally this kind of shortcut causes us to miss
 things, but pattern recognition allows the chess master to ignore dead
 ends that poorer players waste time on.

 I see craftsmen and artists using tools that are difficult to master -
 but supply and demand doesn't take that into consideration in setting
 prices for their goods.

long post warning ... 

as an undergraduate ... i did fair share scheduler for cp67 ... or
actually dynamic adaptive resource management ... with default
policy being fair share; minor recent reference:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007h.html#77 Linux: The Completely Fair Scheduler

but also did a lot of highly optimized pathlength and fastpath stuff.  I
made joke about being able to do stuff in zero instruction ... carefully
tweaking instructions all over the kernel so that various things
happened implicitly ... so scheduler didn't actually have to execute
instructions to obtain the desired results (secondary effects of the
order of how other things are occruing, of course it helps if you
effectively have memorized the source for the complete kernel).

over some yrs, there was complaints that nobody could understand how it
worked ... which probably contributed to a lot of being dropped
(simplified) in the morph from cp67 to vm370.

so possibly still part of the recovery in the aftermath of future system
project ... recent reference in this thread
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2007i.html#31 Latest Principles of Operation

I was given the opportunity to reintroduce the resource manager for
vm370. 

... more topic drift ...

and they decided that the resource manager should be guinea pig to
starting to charge for kernel code ... so i had to spend some amount
of time with the business and legal people working on policy for charging
for kernel software; i.e. 23jun69 unbundling announcement started 
charging for application software ... but they used the excuse that
kernel software was integral to hardware operation and should still
be free ... misc. past posts
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#unbundle

... slightly return to topic ...

now, i did fix up some of the more obtuse pieces of code ... but there
still was quite a bit of complexity in the resource manager ... and
people over the yrs would complain that they didn't understand how it
worked ... and periodically somebody would make changes in other parts
of the kernel resulting in unexplicable affects on scheduling (there was
still quite a bit of convoluted code that I justified on being able to
do things in fewer instructions and shorter pathlength).

so there was one fly in the oitment, somebody from corporate complained
that there weren't any tuning parameters ... which was the state of the
art in other products; ... namely the favorite son operating system of
the period had a massive table of tuning parameters ... and there were
this presentations at SHARE (could put everybody to sleep) about random
walks across the tuning parameter table landscape, varying the
parameters for all different kinds of workloads and configurations ...
attempting to find settings that made some difference.

So I was forced to put in some tuning parameters (before product ship),
document them and the backup formulas ... as well as detailed code
explanation.

so we roll forward nearly 20yrs ... we are on a marketing swing thru
the far east for our ha/cmp product
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/subtopic.html#hacmp
also additional thread drift
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/95.html#13
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/96.html#15
and 
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/lhwemail.html#medusa

... and we are on a call at a large financial institution. One of the
people at the meeting (relatively recent graduate) pipes up and asks if
i'm the same person associated with the scheduler ... since they had
studied me/it at the Univ. of Waterloo.

So I respond politely and asked if the joke was discussed.

Now part of the issue with static tuning parameters is that workloads
tend to vary from minute-to-minute, day-to-day, week-to-week ... and
there was a whole lot of work that went into the dynamic adaptive
implementation to eliminate the requirement for any static tuning
parameters. Being force to add static tuning parameters seemed to be a
great step backward in the state-of-the-art. So as to the joke ...  if
dynamic adaptive can adjust for changes in configurations and workloads
... as well as a lot of other things ... why couldn't the dynamic
adaptive implementation also adjust to compensate for changes in any
static tuning parameters.

misc. past posts discussing the resource manager joke:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2001b.html#18 Linux IA-64 interrupts [was Re: 
Itanium benchmarks ...]

Re: latest Principles of Operation

2007-04-27 Thread Dean Kent

- Original Message - 
From: john gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: latest Principles of Operation

 Views like his are common, but they are also curiously parochial.
Someone
 who wants to do physics is expected to master the necessary techniques,
and
 if he cannot it is politely but firmly made clear to him that he must do
 something else.

I think you may have missed my point.

 With programmers, on the other hand, we too often proceed very
differently.
 Statement-level procedural languages like COBOL are frequently subsetted,
 the use of notionally difficult language features being interdicted as
 too complex in many shops.  It would be much better to interdict
 professional programming to anyone who cannot master all of the features
of
 any of these SLPLs.

 Obviously you want people to master
the skills necessary to perform an excellent job.  However, if the skills
required become more and more difficult you will eliminate more and more
people who can, or will, engage in that activity.  At some point only a
very, very few will do it.  Is that what we desire - to have fewer and fewer
people able to perform the task, so that it gets too expensive for companies
to pay for the expertise - and move to a platform that is cheaper, even if
not quite as good?

There seems to be a disconnect between cause and effect on the use of
various tools to get a job done by companies whose number one priority is
cutting costs and increasing revenues.   C is popular and assembler is not
for a reason.   x86 based platforms are popular and mainframes are not for a
reason.  It is easy to point to unit cost, but unit cost is a function of
how widespread something is used, and how widespread something is used is a
function of how easy it is to use.

The original issue I responded to was with regard to the number of
instructions one must be familiar with to be competent in mainframe
assembler (which, of course, isn't the only issue as there are numerous
macros and services to know as well), and the statement that complexity is
used as an excuse for poor training and laziness.  I was just pointing out
that this is not necessarily the case.   Complexity is a real concern if you
care about how many people are willing to use a particular thing.

My conclusion, then, would be that adding complexity to mainframes is
probably not what most of those of us in the business really want - having
nothing at all to do with laziness.

Regards,
   Dean

 John Gilmore
 Ashland, MA 01721-1817
 USA

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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:32:13 +, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

DEFRAG became useless.

I have not defragged for performance for years.
But, extent problems will always be with us, until we can predict,
effectively, how big our operational files will be as the business grows.

Yesterday's large files are today's small ones.
Extent consolidation is the only valid reason for defrag.



Why do you need to consolidate extents when most data sets can
have 123 per volume?   Unless you really mean contiguous space.  You
can have thousands of files all using a single extent and very little
contiguous space.

Mark
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Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

2007-04-27 Thread Schneiderwent, Craig

If you are interested in an Assembler solution, one which executes as a
batch job, I believe I can provide one.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Ira Broussard
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 2:32 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: RES: Counting occurrences of a string in loadlib

It only takes a few REXX statements to read in  and concatenate the module
in 
memory. Put it in a DO loop until EOF. LMGET  a record into a variable. If 
not EOF, one REXX statement will concatenate it,  i.e.,...

modulearea = modulearea || inputrecord

If EOF, move to the next module.

Looks like the entire EXEC to process all the modules in the load  library 
will only be about 100 lines of code.

Ira

In a message dated 4/27/2007 2:23:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Why not  do this in Assembler?  There are interfaces for reading the 
directory  of the PDS; then do a LOAD, [insert your scan of the loaded load 
module  here], DELETE for each load module? LOAD will return the address 
and  length of the entire module loaded, if I am not mistaken, which is 
easier  than assembling the module in Rexx, I think.

Tim Hare
Senior  Systems Programmer
Florida Department of Transportation
(850)  414-4209

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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:34:36 +, Ted MacNEIL [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

STOPX37 functionality) that made DEFRAG
pretty much obsolete.  If extent consolidation is really what you want, FDR
COMPAKTOR...

Unfortunately, these things cost money.


Yes, but DFSMS is part of the OS and doesn't cost extra. 
That is why I said STOPX37 functionality.   Many of those ISV
features of products like that have been built into DFSMS over the years
(reduce primary space allocation, 16 extents, overflow pools, etc. etc.).

Mark
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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

2007-04-27 Thread Ron Hawkins

Mark,

Maybe it's a case of differing experience. The first time I came across
DEFRAG being used it was all about reducing seek on 3380, and I was
questioning the benefit of this on 3880-23 controllers.

The benefit of reducing seek with DEFRAG still crops up, even on this list.
I would bet that it is the performance improvement alluded to in some of the
responses.

Disk arrays did nothing for fragmented space, but they rendered obsolete any
SLED based performance techniques based on reducing seek - including DEFRAG.

Ron


 
 Disagree.  That did nothing for fragmentation.  That was always the
 primary
 purpose of defrag - not performance.  Consolidating extents was just an
 extra benefit.  It wasn't until large DASD and DFSMS changes came about
 (or using ISV products that have STOPX37 functionality) that made DEFRAG
 pretty much obsolete.  If extent consolidation is really what you want,
 FDR
 COMPAKTOR can do that part only without defragging the entire volume.
 

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Re: Best practices for software delivery

2007-04-27 Thread Wayne Driscoll

Ok, time for me to spend some time on the soap box.  What is the
TECHNICAL reason for not allowing the Mainframe to access the network?
I don't understand this at all.  Every PC in your company probably can
access the internet, allowing employees to spend time browsing the web,
yet the mainframe can't be connected to the internet to allow for you to
QUICKLY get maintenance?  As a response to Barry's statement, that
after paying for the product, I still have to produce my own portable
media, when the means to connect the mainframe SECURELY to the internet
are easily available (and built into the hardware and software,
something that cannot be said for desktop machines).  
Ok, time for me to get off the soap box and back to work.
Wayne Driscoll
Product Developer
JME Software LLC
NOTE: All opinions are strictly my own.
  

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Schwarz, Barry A
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 6:12 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@BAMA.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Best practices for software delivery


And since I (along with some other subscribers) am not allowed to
connect the mainframe network externally, after paying for the product I
still have to produce my own portable media that I can hand carry over.

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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

Why do you need to consolidate extents when most data sets can have 123 per 
volume?   Unless you really mean contiguous space.

PDS's, PDSE, unexpected growth.
We had one group of datasets for a customer or two  that was allocated in 
tracks, only a couple hundred cylinders in total.
Suddenly, the business turned on a switch and boom!

We are also finding one storage group that if we don't defrag, we SB37 
everynight on 1000's of jobs.

We are changing allocations to handle this, but the business is growing faster 
than we can keep up.

And, not all of our (ancient) applications can handle EXTEND datasets.

So, it's defrag or die!

STOPx  friends were considered too expensive.
And, BRIGHTSTOR isn't good/smart enough.

Sad, but true.

As I said, extent consolidation is the only reason for defrag.
If you don't need it, don't defrag.
If you do, do!

-
Too busy driving to stop for gas!  

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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

(reduce primary space allocation, 16 extents, overflow pools, etc. etc.).

Have you ever had to try to control an SMS environment run by an out-sourcer?

-
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Re: latest Principles of Operation

2007-04-27 Thread Patrick O'Keefe

On Fri, 27 Apr 2007 17:57:12 +, john gilmore 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Dean Kent writes:

The human mind has a limited capacity for organizing information 
into something meaningful.  ...
...
Views like his are common, but they are also curiously parochial.   
Someone who wants to do physics is expected to master the 
necessary techniques, and
if he cannot it is politely but firmly made clear to him that he must do
something else.
...

I seem to have lost the beginning of this sub-thread, but I think the 
whole argument is bogus.  Programming is closer to engineering than
to physics, and maintainability of the product is as (or more) important
that the basic principles behind those products.

And (from from earlier in this thread), it is very rare for
a carpenter to have to understand the internal workings of his tools
well enough to rebuild them to fulfill a new purpose.

No matter the capacity of the human minds involved, those future 
involved minds are going to have better thing to do than understand
the workings of earlier minds.  There is nothing parochial about 
making trying to make a program easily understandable. 

No matter how well a programmer has mastered the necessary 
techniques of programming, he/she can still be baffled by a previous
programmer's clever coding.  And anybody writing a program today
must assume it will have to be understood and modified by some
other programmer in the future.  If the program can be done 
efficiently only by clever programming (and if that efficiency is really
needed) then the clever programming needs to be accompanied by
VERY clear documentation.  If new, more complex instructions can
actually simplify the programming logic then I think they should 
be readily used, otherwise they should be used with care (and lots
of documentation).  

Pat O'Keefe 

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Re: latest Principles of Operation

2007-04-27 Thread Chase, John

 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of john gilmore
 
 Dean Kent writes:
 
 [ snip ]
 
 With programmers, on the other hand, we too often proceed 
 very differently.  
 Statement-level procedural languages like COBOL are 
 frequently subsetted, the use of notionally difficult 
 language features being interdicted as too complex in many 
 shops.  It would be much better to interdict professional 
 programming to anyone who cannot master all of the features 
 of any of these SLPLs.

I once worked in an Assembler shop where the manager forbade the use of
BXH/BXLE because he couldn't grasp how they worked.  I did get to see
some interesting dumps caused by BCT(R) loops gone awry, though.  :-)

-jc-

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Re: FW: Do we have to defrag MVS volumes on newer generation disk arrays?

On Sat, 28 Apr 2007 04:41:59 +0800, Ron Hawkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Mark,

Maybe it's a case of differing experience. The first time I came across
DEFRAG being used it was all about reducing seek on 3380, and I was
questioning the benefit of this on 3880-23 controllers.


I guess I should have qualified my response about not defragging for 
performance with disk arrays, but that was the part of your response
that I quoted and was referring to.  Back in the days of 3380 sled
I remember using FASTDASD (CA) to create  COMPAKTOR control 
cards to place data sets in specific order to reduce seek times.  

The benefit of reducing seek with DEFRAG still crops up, even on this list.
I would bet that it is the performance improvement alluded to in some of the
responses.

Yepper.

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: latest Principles of Operation

If the program can be done efficiently only by clever programming (and if that 
efficiency is really
needed) then the clever programming needs to be accompanied by VERY clear 
documentation.

Real programmers don't comment code.
It was hard to write; it should be hard to read!

(8-{}

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Re: latest Principles of Operation