Re: Help for US Talent
Been there, got a lot of t-shirts Jack On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 at 21:59, Seymour J Metz wrote: > Sometimes you have to do something boring that is not your responsibility > because you're the only one they trust to do it right and they can't afford > for it to be done wrong. > > That said, there's nothing wrong with writing tools to eliminate some of > the drudgery. > > > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf > of Bob Bridges > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 4:50 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Help for US Talent > > I thought programming sounded boring, but I figured an accountant should > know something about computers so I signed up for a class. Not boring. I > finished my Accounting degree, but I went straight into coding and never > looked back. > > I agree with the folks who approved of your move. Now that I'm a security > analyst, I disliked being required to do repetitive security administration > - but I have to admit that doing that work makes me more aware of what > tools I can write that really help the admins, at each particular site. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* Only a very clever human can make a real Joke about virtue, or indeed > about anything else; any of them can be trained to talk AS IF virtue were > funny. Among flippant people the Joke is always assumed to have been > made. No one actually makes it; but every serious subject is discussed in > a manner which implies that they have already found a ridiculous side to > it. -from The Screwtape Letters by C S Lewis */ > > -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf > Of Gabe Goldberg > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 02:39 > > regarding a point someone else made, once my IBM manager determined > that I was going to an IBM customer, not competitor, I was able to work > through the long notice I'd given to stop my manager from continuing to try > to find a transfer for me. > > Funny, as I was leaving, more than one person said that was a great career > move -- go work for a customer or two, then come back with real-world > knowledge/skills, which were too scarce at IBM. I did the first part but > forgot to return. > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Sometimes you have to do something boring that is not your responsibility because you're the only one they trust to do it right and they can't afford for it to be done wrong. That said, there's nothing wrong with writing tools to eliminate some of the drudgery. From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List on behalf of Bob Bridges Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 4:50 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Help for US Talent I thought programming sounded boring, but I figured an accountant should know something about computers so I signed up for a class. Not boring. I finished my Accounting degree, but I went straight into coding and never looked back. I agree with the folks who approved of your move. Now that I'm a security analyst, I disliked being required to do repetitive security administration - but I have to admit that doing that work makes me more aware of what tools I can write that really help the admins, at each particular site. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Only a very clever human can make a real Joke about virtue, or indeed about anything else; any of them can be trained to talk AS IF virtue were funny. Among flippant people the Joke is always assumed to have been made. No one actually makes it; but every serious subject is discussed in a manner which implies that they have already found a ridiculous side to it. -from The Screwtape Letters by C S Lewis */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gabe Goldberg Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 02:39 regarding a point someone else made, once my IBM manager determined that I was going to an IBM customer, not competitor, I was able to work through the long notice I'd given to stop my manager from continuing to try to find a transfer for me. Funny, as I was leaving, more than one person said that was a great career move -- go work for a customer or two, then come back with real-world knowledge/skills, which were too scarce at IBM. I did the first part but forgot to return. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Well, yes. But when I ~needed~ the work - needed the money, I mean, of course - I sometimes took jobs like that. So even to those recruiters I stay polite. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The beginning of knowledge is the awareness of ignorance. -Socrates */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Chuck Kreiter Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 09:17 Personally, I'm tired of getting recruiters emailing and/or calling (yes, they do both) about an urgent need for a 25+ year experience position that maxes out at $40/hour 1099. So, those, I do not care if their job is harder or not. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 4:24 PM Am I missing something? Why the interest in making life hard for recruiters? Ok, I'm a contractor so my continued employment depends on their existence. Still, why? If I thought that you normally work under those conditions - $125/hr or outside the US half the time - then of course you're just stating up front one of your requirements. From the tone, though, it sounds like you're trying to make them unhappy for the fun of it. Is there something going on here that I'm not aware of? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
I thought programming sounded boring, but I figured an accountant should know something about computers so I signed up for a class. Not boring. I finished my Accounting degree, but I went straight into coding and never looked back. I agree with the folks who approved of your move. Now that I'm a security analyst, I disliked being required to do repetitive security administration - but I have to admit that doing that work makes me more aware of what tools I can write that really help the admins, at each particular site. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Only a very clever human can make a real Joke about virtue, or indeed about anything else; any of them can be trained to talk AS IF virtue were funny. Among flippant people the Joke is always assumed to have been made. No one actually makes it; but every serious subject is discussed in a manner which implies that they have already found a ridiculous side to it. -from The Screwtape Letters by C S Lewis */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Gabe Goldberg Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 02:39 regarding a point someone else made, once my IBM manager determined that I was going to an IBM customer, not competitor, I was able to work through the long notice I'd given to stop my manager from continuing to try to find a transfer for me. Funny, as I was leaving, more than one person said that was a great career move -- go work for a customer or two, then come back with real-world knowledge/skills, which were too scarce at IBM. I did the first part but forgot to return. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Yeah, I've noticed the conventions are different for Indian and American recruiters. The Indians want lots of information up front, including my lowest rate before even we've talked about the details of the req. The Americans expect a certain amount of conversation about it first. On the other hand the Indians will tell me, often in the very first email, who the client is. Try to get that information out of a Yankee recruiter before they know whether you're a serious candidate! --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* I am sick of all the chaos and the nastiness of our politics. It's exhausting, and frankly it's depressing. So I understand wanting to shut it all out, and just try to live your life, take care of your family in peace. But here's the problem: While some folks are frustrated and tuned out, and staying home on election day, other folks are showing up. Democracy continues with or without you. They're voting in every election, from city council to governor to presidentWhen you don't vote, you're letting other people make some really key decisions about the life you're gonna live. You're just saying: "YOU do it". And you may not like what they decide. You might not like living with the consequences of other people's choices. But that's what happens when you stay home. -Michelle Obama, in a Nevada speech late 2017 */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of rpinion865 Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:22 I have had some off-shore recruiters ask for my SSN and birthdate. You can imagine how far that goes. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
That's not a recruiter, that's a spammer. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* Every man has his secret sorrows, which the world knows not; and oftentimes we call a man cold when he is only sad. -Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (1807-1882) */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Michael Watkins Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 10:35 Ha! When I was last looking for a job as a storage manager on the z/OS platform, a recruiter approached me with a position where I'd be responsible for renting out 10' x 10' storage units to people who'd already filled their garages with belongings they could not part with. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
If all of us give them a HIGH rate ($125/HR) when they want to pay $40.HR it does get the point across = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Yesterday I sent this to IBM Mainframe and RACF Discussions (See Below) Evidently several people from Mainframe and RACF groups have begun using This Little script. I continue to use this script and the off-shore recruiter; Well you can hear them Just die on the phone. They continue on their script and they tell me what they Can do monetarily then I tell them they are $50/HR low or whatever. Then I wish them good Luck and hang up Steve = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and increase what they need to pay. They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say yes Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR W2 or $210,000 perm?" You hear them fade or die on the other end then I hang up. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Ha! When I was last looking for a job as a storage manager on the z/OS platform, a recruiter approached me with a position where I'd be responsible for renting out 10' x 10' storage units to people who'd already filled their garages with belongings they could not part with. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Seymour J Metz Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 4:45 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Help for US Talent CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Texas Comptroller's email system. DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you expect them from the sender and know the content is safe. Why do you want to get rid of them? If a recruiter calls, I politely say that I'm not interested at this time. Depending on the context, I may politely explain that assembler programmer and assembly line technician are very different skill sets, and that the skills don't transfer well in either direction. No, I did not make this up, and it isn't a one-time thing. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Steve Beaver [050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Help for US Talent Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and increase what they need to pay. They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say yes Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR W2 or $210,000 perm?" You hear them fade or die on the other end then I hang up. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
I have had some off-shore recruiters ask for my SSN and birthdate. You can imagine how far that goes. Sent with Proton Mail secure email. --- Original Message --- On Tuesday, August 15th, 2023 at 10:18 AM, Steve Beaver <050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Yesterday I sent this to IBM Mainframe and RACF Discussions (See Below) > > Evidently several people from Mainframe and RACF groups have begun using > this > Little script. > > I continue to use this script and the off-shore recruiter; Well you can > hear them > Just die on the phone. They continue on their script and they tell me what > they > Can do monetarily then I tell them they are $50/HR low or whatever. Then I > wish > them good Luck and hang up > > Steve > > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = > > Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and > increase what they need to pay. > > They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say yes > > Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR W2 or > $210,000 perm?" > > You hear them fade or die on the other end then I hang up. > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Yesterday I sent this to IBM Mainframe and RACF Discussions (See Below) Evidently several people from Mainframe and RACF groups have begun using this Little script. I continue to use this script and the off-shore recruiter; Well you can hear them Just die on the phone. They continue on their script and they tell me what they Can do monetarily then I tell them they are $50/HR low or whatever. Then I wish them good Luck and hang up Steve = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and increase what they need to pay. They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say yes Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR W2 or $210,000 perm?" You hear them fade or die on the other end then I hang up. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Personally, I'm tired of getting recruiters emailing and/or calling (yes, they do both) about an urgent need for a 25+ year experience position that maxes out at $40/hour 1099. So, those, I do not care if their job is harder or not. -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Bob Bridges Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 4:24 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Help for US Talent Am I missing something? Why the interest in making life hard for recruiters? Ok, I'm a contractor so my continued employment depends on their existence. Still, why? If I thought that you normally work under those conditions - $125/hr or outside the US half the time - then of course you're just stating up front one of your requirements. From the tone, though, it sounds like you're trying to make them unhappy for the fun of it. Is there something going on here that I'm not aware of? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* I have never been hurt by anything I didn't say. -Calvin Coolidge */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of rpinion865 Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 16:01 I ask them, as a US citizen with a legal residence in the State of Tennessee, may I work remotely, outside of the USA for at least six months a year? I usually never hear from them again. Original Message On Aug 14, 2023, 3:52 PM, Steve Beaver wrote: > Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and > increase what they need to pay. They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say > yes Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR > W2 or $210,000 perm?" You hear them fade or die on the other end then > I hang up. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
When I was contracting on-site I had an Excel workbook that I used to estimate what rate I would want to go live in for a few quarters. The workbook was - well, you know what Scott Adams said? "To a normal person, if it ain't broke, don’t fix it. To an engineer, if it ain't broke it doesn't have enough features yet." Like that. Anyway, I never did work in NYC. I'd consult my workbook, and it would say $120/hr or some awful number that I could hardly take seriously myself, and the recruiter would just laugh and move on. I eventually decided that people who live in NYC must know some tricks that I don't know. Not that I'm unhappy about the outcome; I'm not a big-city guy anyway, when I get my druthers. And about req numbers: I learned at some point to get the client's req number from the recruiter as soon as the talk got past the introductory stage. No confusion allowed about who submitted me first and for which position. Truthfully most of the recruiters didn't try to play fast and loose with the conventions we agree on, but there were a few who did and there were opportunities for honest confusion too. Recording the req# in my database was one way to reduce the latter. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* I never guess. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. -Sir Arthur Conan Doyle */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Bobbie Jo Justice Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2023 08:22 We've all dealt with good recruiters and bad recruiters over the years. Good recruiters will send decent paying remote jobs that match your experience. Bad recruiters will send jobs about 40+ lpars paying peanuts. Then there's always let's work onsite in nyc for 1/4th the salary you'll need to survive. Not to mention, we can submit you to the same company multiple times because this position "just came out today and is a different requisition number". My other favorite is sending me computer operator jobs when the last time I was a computer operator was the mid 1980s. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
We've all dealt with good recruiters and bad recruiters over the years. Good recruiters will send decent paying remote jobs that match your experience. Bad recruiters will send jobs about 40+ lpars paying peanuts. Then there's always let's work onsite in nyc for 1/4th the salary you'll need to survive. Not to mention, we can submit you to the same company multiple times because this position "just came out today and is a different requisition number". My other favorite is sending me computer operator jobs when the last time I was a computer operator was the mid 1980s. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Why do you want to get rid of them? If a recruiter calls, I politely say that I'm not interested at this time. Depending on the context, I may politely explain that assembler programmer and assembly line technician are very different skill sets, and that the skills don't transfer well in either direction. No, I did not make this up, and it isn't a one-time thing. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Steve Beaver [050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 3:52 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Help for US Talent Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and increase what they need to pay. They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say yes Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR W2 or $210,000 perm?" You hear them fade or die on the other end then I hang up. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Recruiters are like tech writes; a good one can be extremely helpful, a bad one can be just a hindrance. I once interviewed a candidate who, after hearing the job description, asked why he had been sent. It turns out that my employer was using the low bidder, and they just flung résumés at the wall and saw what stuck. -- Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of rpinion865 [042a019916dd-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 8:36 PM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: Help for US Talent I get tons of emails from offshore recruiters. Some are geared toward my listed experience. But there are some that do not come close. The only thing that matches me is the state I live in. Sent from Proton Mail mobile Original Message On Aug 14, 2023, 7:32 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > I haven't had any recruiters ask me about forklifts, but yeah, I do get some > that just match me up with "something computer-related" and contact me about > that. But it occurs to me belatedly that you're talking about phone calls. I > don't know what you and I are doing differently, but most recruiters email > me, and the rare phone calls I get are (so far) all w real gigs for me, I > mean gigs that I might conceivably be interested in. The ones that aren't a > good match, or when it's two or three recruiters from the same company > contacting me about the same req, those all come from just one or two > recruiting companies. But they almost never know my name, and I can throw > their emails in my Junk folder without pangs of conscience. Mostly if a > recruiter knows my name (I mean, addresses his email to me and not just to > "Greetings"), I take the trouble to reply politely. They're still my source > of work, after all. And I may suddenly need to come out of my > semi-retirement, in which case I want them to think well of me. --- Bob > Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The art of not reading > is a very important one. It consists in not taking an interest in whatever > may be engaging the attention of the general public at any particular time. > When some political or ecclesiastical pamphlet, or novel, or poem is making a > great commotion, you should remember that he who writes for fools always > finds a large public. A precondition for reading good books is not reading > bad ones: for life is short. -Schopenhauer */ -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Grant Taylor Sent: Monday, > August 14, 2023 18:43 I've dealt with way too many bad recruiters this year. > I've told them up front, what I'm looking for in very clear and concise > manner. I clearly provided; salary, location / remote, and job function. Too > many of them would inquire if I wanted to drive a forklift or install cable > TV wiring in a completely different state across the country. It got to the > point that I would ban recruiter companies from my mail server after the 3rd > such wildly incorrect inquiry. It's routine for different recruiters from the > same company to reach out, thinking that filtering is based on email address. > I've even had a recruiting company stop sending from their company email > addresses and use Gmail in order to avoid email filters. These are the low > ball recruiters that I want to simply go away and stop talking to me. --- On > 8/14/23 3:23 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > Am I missing something? Why the > interest in making life hard for > recruiters? Ok, I'm a contractor so my > continued employment depends > on their existence. Still, why? > > If I > thought that you normally work under those conditions - $125/hr > or outside > the US half the time - then of course you're just stating > up front one of > your requirements. From the tone, though, it sounds > like you're trying to > make them unhappy for the fun of it. Is there > something going on here that > I'm not aware of? > -- For > IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Mostly true. Except when I was leaving my first job at IBM/Poughkeepsie (IBM was great place to start career, but I hated rural POK having grown up and attended college in New York City) I told recruiters to focus on NY and Boston, where I had friends and relatives. A recruiter who didn't follow my instructions asked, "How about Washington?". "Sure", I said, "I have relatives there, have enjoyed visiting". So I came to DC area to work at Mitre, spent rest of my life/career here. Robert Frost: Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference. So I forgave him. ...and regarding a point someone else made, once my IBM manager determined that I was going to an IBM customer, not competitor, I was able to work through the long notice I'd given to stop my manager from continuing to try to find a transfer for me. Funny, as I was leaving, more than one person said that was a great career move -- go work for a customer or two, then come back with real-world knowledge/skills, which were too scarce at IBM. I did the first part but forgot to return. Grant Taylor On 8/14/23 3:23 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: Am I missing something? Why the interest in making life hard for recruiters? Ok, I'm a contractor so my continued employment depends on their existence. Still, why? Recruiters aren't a problem if they are/good/ recruiters. As in they pay attention to what you tell them and they don't bother you with things that don't qualify. -- Gabriel Goldberg, Computers and Publishing, inc.g...@gabegold.com 3401 Silver Maple Place, Falls Church, VA 22042 (703) 204-0433 LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/in/gabegold Twitter: GabeG0 -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
I get tons of emails from offshore recruiters. Some are geared toward my listed experience. But there are some that do not come close. The only thing that matches me is the state I live in. Sent from Proton Mail mobile Original Message On Aug 14, 2023, 7:32 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > I haven't had any recruiters ask me about forklifts, but yeah, I do get some > that just match me up with "something computer-related" and contact me about > that. But it occurs to me belatedly that you're talking about phone calls. I > don't know what you and I are doing differently, but most recruiters email > me, and the rare phone calls I get are (so far) all w real gigs for me, I > mean gigs that I might conceivably be interested in. The ones that aren't a > good match, or when it's two or three recruiters from the same company > contacting me about the same req, those all come from just one or two > recruiting companies. But they almost never know my name, and I can throw > their emails in my Junk folder without pangs of conscience. Mostly if a > recruiter knows my name (I mean, addresses his email to me and not just to > "Greetings"), I take the trouble to reply politely. They're still my source > of work, after all. And I may suddenly need to come out of my > semi-retirement, in which case I want them to think well of me. --- Bob > Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The art of not reading > is a very important one. It consists in not taking an interest in whatever > may be engaging the attention of the general public at any particular time. > When some political or ecclesiastical pamphlet, or novel, or poem is making a > great commotion, you should remember that he who writes for fools always > finds a large public. A precondition for reading good books is not reading > bad ones: for life is short. -Schopenhauer */ -Original Message- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Grant Taylor Sent: Monday, > August 14, 2023 18:43 I've dealt with way too many bad recruiters this year. > I've told them up front, what I'm looking for in very clear and concise > manner. I clearly provided; salary, location / remote, and job function. Too > many of them would inquire if I wanted to drive a forklift or install cable > TV wiring in a completely different state across the country. It got to the > point that I would ban recruiter companies from my mail server after the 3rd > such wildly incorrect inquiry. It's routine for different recruiters from the > same company to reach out, thinking that filtering is based on email address. > I've even had a recruiting company stop sending from their company email > addresses and use Gmail in order to avoid email filters. These are the low > ball recruiters that I want to simply go away and stop talking to me. --- On > 8/14/23 3:23 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > Am I missing something? Why the > interest in making life hard for > recruiters? Ok, I'm a contractor so my > continued employment depends > on their existence. Still, why? > > If I > thought that you normally work under those conditions - $125/hr > or outside > the US half the time - then of course you're just stating > up front one of > your requirements. From the tone, though, it sounds > like you're trying to > make them unhappy for the fun of it. Is there > something going on here that > I'm not aware of? > -- For > IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
I haven't had any recruiters ask me about forklifts, but yeah, I do get some that just match me up with "something computer-related" and contact me about that. But it occurs to me belatedly that you're talking about phone calls. I don't know what you and I are doing differently, but most recruiters email me, and the rare phone calls I get are (so far) all w real gigs for me, I mean gigs that I might conceivably be interested in. The ones that aren't a good match, or when it's two or three recruiters from the same company contacting me about the same req, those all come from just one or two recruiting companies. But they almost never know my name, and I can throw their emails in my Junk folder without pangs of conscience. Mostly if a recruiter knows my name (I mean, addresses his email to me and not just to "Greetings"), I take the trouble to reply politely. They're still my source of work, after all. And I may suddenly need to come out of my semi-retirement, in which case I want them to think well of me. --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* The art of not reading is a very important one. It consists in not taking an interest in whatever may be engaging the attention of the general public at any particular time. When some political or ecclesiastical pamphlet, or novel, or poem is making a great commotion, you should remember that he who writes for fools always finds a large public. A precondition for reading good books is not reading bad ones: for life is short. -Schopenhauer */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Grant Taylor Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 18:43 I've dealt with way too many bad recruiters this year. I've told them up front, what I'm looking for in very clear and concise manner. I clearly provided; salary, location / remote, and job function. Too many of them would inquire if I wanted to drive a forklift or install cable TV wiring in a completely different state across the country. It got to the point that I would ban recruiter companies from my mail server after the 3rd such wildly incorrect inquiry. It's routine for different recruiters from the same company to reach out, thinking that filtering is based on email address. I've even had a recruiting company stop sending from their company email addresses and use Gmail in order to avoid email filters. These are the low ball recruiters that I want to simply go away and stop talking to me. --- On 8/14/23 3:23 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > Am I missing something? Why the interest in making life hard for > recruiters? Ok, I'm a contractor so my continued employment depends > on their existence. Still, why? > > If I thought that you normally work under those conditions - $125/hr > or outside the US half the time - then of course you're just stating > up front one of your requirements. From the tone, though, it sounds > like you're trying to make them unhappy for the fun of it. Is there > something going on here that I'm not aware of? -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
On 8/14/23 3:23 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: Am I missing something? Why the interest in making life hard for recruiters? Ok, I'm a contractor so my continued employment depends on their existence. Still, why? Recruiters aren't a problem if they are /good/ recruiters. As in they pay attention to what you tell them and they don't bother you with things that don't qualify. I've dealt with some good recruiters. I've also dealt with some exceedingly bad recruiters. If I thought that you normally work under those conditions - $125/hr or outside the US half the time - then of course you're just stating up front one of your requirements. From the tone, though, it sounds like you're trying to make them unhappy for the fun of it. Is there something going on here that I'm not aware of? I've dealt with way too many bad recruiters this year. I've told them up front, what I'm looking for in very clear and concise manner. I clearly provided; salary, location / remote, and job function. Too many of them would inquire if I wanted to drive a forklift or install cable TV wiring in a completely different state across the country. It got to the point that I would ban recruiter companies from my mail server after the 3rd such wildly incorrect inquiry. It's routine for different recruiters from the same company to reach out, thinking that filtering is based on email address. I've even had a recruiting company stop sending from their company email addresses and use Gmail in order to avoid email filters. These are the low ball recruiters that I want to simply go away and stop talking to me. Grant. . . . -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Best bit of recruiter trolling I heard of was when Dylan Beatie created the Rockstar programming language :-) Roops On Mon, 14 Aug 2023, 20:52 Steve Beaver, < 050e0c375a14-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and > increase what they need to pay. > > > > They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say yes > > > > Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR W2 or > $210,000 perm?" > > > > You hear them fade or die on the other end then I hang up. > > > > > > > -- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Am I missing something? Why the interest in making life hard for recruiters? Ok, I'm a contractor so my continued employment depends on their existence. Still, why? If I thought that you normally work under those conditions - $125/hr or outside the US half the time - then of course you're just stating up front one of your requirements. From the tone, though, it sounds like you're trying to make them unhappy for the fun of it. Is there something going on here that I'm not aware of? --- Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 /* I have never been hurt by anything I didn't say. -Calvin Coolidge */ -Original Message- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of rpinion865 Sent: Monday, August 14, 2023 16:01 I ask them, as a US citizen with a legal residence in the State of Tennessee, may I work remotely, outside of the USA for at least six months a year? I usually never hear from them again. Original Message On Aug 14, 2023, 3:52 PM, Steve Beaver wrote: > Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and > increase what they need to pay. They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say > yes Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR > W2 or $210,000 perm?" You hear them fade or die on the other end then > I hang up. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
Very funny, until they go back to their CIO and say, "This platform is getting way too expensive. Time to look at SAP on x86 again." On 8/14/2023 12:52 PM, Steve Beaver wrote: Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and increase what they need to pay. They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say yes Then I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR W2 or $210,000 perm?" You hear them fade or die on the other end then I hang up. -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
Re: Help for US Talent
I ask them, as a US citizen with a legal residence in the State of Tennessee, may I work remotely, outside of the USA for at least six months a year? I usually never hear from them again. Sent from Proton Mail mobile Original Message On Aug 14, 2023, 3:52 PM, Steve Beaver wrote: > Every time a recruiter calls me I have a sure way get rid of them and > increase what they need to pay. They ask me if I'm Steve, and I say yes Then > I tell them "Are you calling me with a job that pays $125/HR W2 or $210,000 > perm?" You hear them fade or die on the other end then I hang up. > -- For > IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
