[IceHorses] For One More Day
A good book: For One More Day by Mitch Albom The movie is on ABC on Sunday night, December 9. Another: A book by Kristine Carlson, An Hour to Live, an Hour to Love. If you had one hour to live and could make just one phone call, who would you call? What would you say? And why are you waiting? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Animal Flatulence contributes to Global Warming
> Britain may recommend reducing meat consumption to fight global > warming. Rationale: "Cattle and sheep release millions of metric > tons > of methane gas a year into the environment through flatulence. In > New > Zealand farm animals produce some 90 percent of the country's > methane emissions." So true. A study was done a few years back in California. They discovered that cows from the dairy and meat industry in Calif. contributed more to global warming than all the cars in the state. Meat and dairy used to be very expensive and fruits and veggies were much cheaper years and years ago. Now most Americans can afford to have meat in every meal, something unheard 50 years ago. We could slow down global warming more if we went back to a more natural diet..close down all the fast un-food un-restaurants... Intersting thing. When I lived in Hawaii as a kid milk was $5 a gallon. that was back in the late 70's to early 80's. Now its $4 bucks a gallon here. Our island grass fed beef here is $2 bucks a pound for hamburger and $4 a pound for t-bone at the slaughterhouse. The imported grain finshed stuff is 3 times that amount. More methane is produced by grain fed beef and big dairy business than by a more natural way of keeping animals...all those animal in a really small space. Anyone interested in stuff like this can read john robbins books about the Agri business of meat and dairy...very good read. He was the son of the Baskin and Robbins Empire of Ice-cream. I think his father died of a heart attack in his 50's. Skye Fire Island Eco-Treks-808-443-6085 Fire Island Professional Farrier Service-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
--- Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Anyway, her quote above makes me think of something. A lot of us > have heard the old warnings that we shouldn't use our legs on our > Icelandic's. I've heard some Icelandic's described as > "well-trained" but buyers were warned never to use legs on them. I know that of the Icelandics that we have, that were trained in Iceland, or by an Icelandic trainer, that while riding our leg is relaxed, yet we can give cues with our legs, for sidepass and such. Now with some western trained horses, like barrel racers etc...well there is a lot of leg contact, a lot of go go go.kick kick kick. This might be a simple language issue, as who knows what Icelandic people over there might think about American riders...if you watch those westerns you would think we all had rough hands and were heavy with the boot! On > the other extreme, we may want to ask a horse to sidepass, leg > yield, move over to open a gate on the trail, or we might want to > ask for a canter using a traditional canter aid. Can most people > do these things without using their legs? > Karen I know I have been taught to use my legs and seat with these horses...leg and seat aids...the less rein the better, and that is from a trainer here that has trained riders in Iceland and has worked with many 'traditional' Icelandic trainers. And she says every Icelandic trainer is different in their approach to the horses and to problem solving and training issues. Just like the trainers here differ... Skye Fire Island Eco-Treks-808-443-6085 Fire Island Professional Farrier Service-640-6080
[IceHorses] Kudos from Gaited Horse Magazine for Judy Ryder
This may have been mentioned in an earlier post, but the last edition of Gaited Horse Magazine summed up their 10 years of publishing experience by thanking the influential people who contributed to their success over the years. Along with Lee Ziegler, and Liz Graves, Judy was recognized for her websites and discussion groups on Icelandics, gaited horses, and training methodologies. Personally, I would like to thank Judy for: - setting up and moderating this group - providing lots of hard, scientific data to help us make the best decisions for our horses - sharing invaluable resource sites on training to help us become better partners with our horses - making an enchanting Christmas card - really caring about her group members These are just a few of the reasons I can think of. So many thanks Judy Regards, Pamela
[IceHorses] Re: Side saddle
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Nancy Sturm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Does anyone know about side saddles? " Hello Nancy, I finally found my copy of Gaited Horse magazine. Here are some quotes and resources. "People who have never tried riding sidesaddle are often amzaed that riders can do just about anything in a sidesaddle that they can do in a regular saddle. This includes jumping, trail riding, and even barrel racing. The secret every sidesaddle rider seems to know is that it is actually a very secure seat. Hewitt reveals that if she had to deal with a difficult horse, she would rather be mounted sidesaddle than in a regular English saddle. She explains that with the horn and leaping head which curves over the left thigh, she can grip much more securely. She says as long as her saddle is tight (an important point), she can press her right calf against her left knee, a motion known as "gaining prescence," and there is virtually no way the horse will throw her." (p. 35) Per the author, "the greatest challenge is finding a sidesaddle to begin with." Novices should use the newer double horned saddle with a balance strap, rather than the older single horn type. Good saddles will probably be expensive but good, used saddles can be found. Here are some resources: www.sidesaddle.org--listing of instructors and representatives ISSO lending library--provides books on loan www.sidesaddleinfo.com--NEA Side Saddle Assn. users.tinyworld.co.uk/sidesaddlelady --Side Saddle Lady Magazine --Side Saddle International--back issues www.sidesaddleinternational.com www.sidesaddelassociation.co.uk--Side Saddle International Jones, E. (Summer 2007). "Sidesaddle: A Revival in Horsemanship, The Gaited Horse And the best part of the whole thing is you can wear some of those beautiful, long skirted riding habits. The following site: http://www.suitability.com has some wonderful patterns (none for long-skirted riding habits unfortunately) for English and western riding apparel, saddle covers, helmet covers, horse covers, etc. I bought some patterns with the intention to make some customized Icelandic saddles pads for Christmas. I have had time to make one saddle pad. It looks good but I failed to compare it with the saddle and it is too small. Oh well, someone's daughter is going to get an unexptected present. Hope this info helps, Pamela
Re: [IceHorses] A good horse
> > Then she stepped Prize's front feet over the tree and parked him > there so > > she could use the tree as a mounting block. He looked back at us > and sort > > of raised an eyebrow, but he stood absolutely still. My first horse as an adult was an Appy mare, country girl. She would give me those 'one eyed' looks when something weird was going on. She did everything I ever asked and everything that I ever needed. She took care of me, taught me how to put on a bridle, canter...and take risks I never dreamed I would. I was sad to learn that Icelandics did not come in Appy colors,,Appys are special. Skye Fire Island Eco-Treks-808-443-6085 Fire Island Professional Farrier Service-640-6080
Re: [IceHorses] Horse in need
When he was four they sent him out for 30 days and he returned with no trust in humans whatsoever. The trainer called him crazy He was too weak to ride and was still nervous. He'd sweat and his heart would pound at the site of the arena ...There are four of us who ride him and he has dumped all but one of us in a panic. Mounting seems to hold some evil memories. Some of these horses just are not meant to be ridden... for whatever reason. That reason could be physical... maybe their backs just are not able to carry the weight of a person. It could be ulcers from his history of not enough food, or stress from training. It could be the type of training he went thru. It could be his basic personality. Normally we think of Icelandics as calm, quiet tempered, but there are those who are schizy, nervous, and leave-me-alone horses. They may never make reliable riding horses. Baldur... I may remember him What color is he? Born in 98? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Angie - one week anniversary
On Dec 6, 2007 7:25 PM, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I will put her in the herd > eventually, but for now, I want her 1) isolated so she can relax and settle > into her new home, and 2) to get used to a routine of twice daily handling, > so that coming in to the barn is a pleasant event, not just something she'll > associate with some invasive (to her) procedure. > I'm a big believer of giving horses a lot of time to settle in. I think I did too much too soon with Gloi and pushed it too much and it made us lose ground. He needed more time to settle in and learn to trust me. Moving here along with the other changes in his life in the year before he came here meant that he needed more time. I remember talking to Alexandra Kurland at the Equine Affaire about Gloi and she said that she wouldn't be surprised if it took him a full year to really be comfortable. When I was at an art show last weekend there was a photographer who had photos of the Pryor Mountain wild mustang herd. One photo was of two stallions fighting with one being very beat up, she said that the beat up one has been a bachelor for many years and finally stole a herd of mares for himself. He has been so nervous and jumpy that the mares can barely get food or rest because he's just not a very good herd stallion. It made me think about Falki. Maybe he's not 'drunk with power', but just not sure how to be a good leader. There was a little difference in the dynamics between him and Gloi this evening at feeding time. He has been keeping Gloi farther away from the gate and barn when I come down with the buckets. Tonight Gloi was closer and Falki was farther out. I noticed this morning, he wanted to go to the pasture to eat hay instead of staying at the barn. He was half way there and the other two wouldn't follow him. I stood there thinking that if you were a more benevolent leader, maybe you'd have more willing followers, maybe he's realizing that too. -- Anna Southern Ohio
[IceHorses] Think
Use your brain, think about the things like nosebands and the biomechanics and how they interact and affect one another and the horse. Thinking Like a Genius: "Even if you're not a genius, you can use the same strategies as Aristotle and Einstein to harness the power of your creative mind and better manage your future." The following eight strategies encourage you to think productively, rather than reproductively, in order to arrive at solutions to problems. "These strategies are common to the thinking styles of creative geniuses in science, art, and industry throughout history." 1. Look at problems in many different ways, and find new perspectives that no one else has taken (or no one else has publicized!) Leonardo da Vinci believed that, to gain knowledge about the form of a problem, you begin by learning how to restructure it in many different ways. He felt that the first way he looked at a problem was too biased. Often, the problem itself is reconstructed and becomes a new one. 2. Visualize! When Einstein thought through a problem, he always found it necessary to formulate his subject in as many different ways as possible, including using diagrams. He visualized solutions, and believed that words and numbers as such did not play a significant role in his thinking process. 3. Produce! A distinguishing characteristic of genius is productivity. Thomas Edison held 1,093 patents. He guaranteed productivity by giving himself and his assistants idea quotas. In a study of 2,036 scientists throughout history, Dean Keith Simonton of the University of California at Davis found that the most respected scientists produced not only great works, but also many "bad" ones. They weren't afraid to fail, or to produce mediocre in order to arrive at excellence. 4. Make novel combinations. Combine, and recombine, ideas, images, and thoughts into different combinations no matter how incongruent or unusual. The laws of heredity on which the modern science of genetics is based came from the Austrian monk Grego Mendel, who combined mathematics and biology to create a new science. 5. Form relationships; make connections between dissimilar subjects. Da Vinci forced a relationship between the sound of a bell and a stone hitting water. This enabled him to make the connection that sound travels in waves. Samuel Morse invented relay stations for telegraphic signals when observing relay stations for horses. 6. Think in opposites. Physicist Niels Bohr believed, that if you held opposites together, then you suspend your thought, and your mind moves to a new level. His ability to imagine light as both a particle and a wave led to his conception of the principle of complementarity. Suspending thought (logic) may allow your mind to create a new form. 7. Think metaphorically. Aristotle considered metaphor a sign of genius, and believed that the individual who had the capacity to perceive resemblances between two separate areas of existence and link them together was a person of special gifts. 8. Prepare yourself for chance. Whenever we attempt to do something and fail, we end up doing something else. That is the first principle of creative accident. Failure can be productive only if we do not focus on it as an unproductive result. Instead: analyze the process, its components, and how you can change them, to arrive at other results. Do not ask the question "Why have I failed?", but rather "What have I done?" ___ Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Angie - one week anniversary
> Angie has been here a week today, Happy Anniversary Angie. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding / Open Mouths
> I'm curious. When a horse is ventroflexed harshly, is it possible > that the mouth is opened as a reflex reaction? Are there muscles that > would cause that to happen when a horse is forced to 'star gaze'?? That could be. Let's think about this: The gaited horse has somewhat loose tendons and ligaments. This can be a good thing, and it can also be a bad thing. When the horse ventroflexes, if too much, he can have kissing spines. That would hurt. Would he open his mouth because of it? If he ventroflexes because of the weight on his spine, that's one thing. If he ventroflexes because the rider is pulling him into that position, that's another thing. Forcing the neck into a crammed position may also force the head to squash all of the organs and glands in the neck. That could cause the horse to open his mouth. If there's not enough room for his tongue to lay flat because his throat has been compressed from constant or too much contact, he may have to open to relieve the tongue. For the horses that may have opened their mouths with a sidepull the above may also apply. Too much contact, too heavy contact, constant contact, there's no relief, bit or no bit. The sidepulls may also be too tight, if fitted by the icelander-style method of fitting a noseband... also if the sidepull is fitted normally with room, that room gets taken away with heavy contact, and the sidepull can dig into the skin, and probably doesn't feel very good after a while on the bones of the nose and jaw (not to mention any points of wayward teeth) (and this would be worse with the sidepull fitted tightly in the first place). Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] last weekend
> http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jDUNmu3_cYM Good job, Mic!! (on the ride, and on the video, and uploading it!) Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding / Open Mouth / Foam
> Sod's law, I can't find any at the moment, though this one shows > flecks of foam on the chest of the pinto (all 3 horses are bitless). While it's good for a horse's mouth to be moist (versus dry), excess foam is not a good thing. It can indicate stress. I think possibly the riders may be holding the horse's heads too tightly, which could be squishing the glands in the neck. Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Horses in the snow
On Dec 6, 2007 7:16 PM, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: How big is he compared to Gloi? > > Falki is definately bigger than Gloi by almost 100 lbs and a little less than one hand difference. Gloi is about 12-1 to 12-2 where Falki is 13 to13-1. -- Anna Southern Ohio
[IceHorses] Re: Horse in need
--- In IceHorses@yahoogroups.com, "Karen Thomas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Are you new to the list Yes, I'm on the Cascade list but not this one. I hoped with a braoder scope to find more help, more people like you and perhaps even the right home for Baldur. Do you know if he was ignored in the pasture for the first three years, before he was sold? I don't know what the initial training was. His name is Baldur fra Alfasaga and I can ask. The breeder recently retired and is moving to our area. A couple more questions - have you had his back really checked well for pain? Yes. I have an equine chiropractor with training in other soft tissue treatment work on him. He was so tight the first visit he kicked in pain at first and was like putty in the man's hands when he was finished. I also have an equine rolpher/energy worker seeing him on a routine basis. It may sound crazy but the results indicate progress. The second question: have you had him checked for ulcers? Gastrogard isn't cheap, but the good news is that a tube will > treat up to a 1400-pound horse. Thanks for the tip. I'll check into the Gastroguard. Whatever it costs isn't as big a problem as a sick horse. > > And, finally, what kind of saddle are you using on him? I was using my Giacomini Dressage saddles when they fit and had a Bob Marshall treeless enduance saddle that a fitter called perfect on him when he tossed me. I use Herm Sprenger snaffle bits with the toy in the middle and Baldur has a Stubben bridle that does fit. I took the caveson off. > These stories need to be discussed openly Thanks, Karen. I'll keep the list posted on our progress. Gail
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Karen, I did not say that the only purpose of the dropped noseband was to steady the bit. I wasn't trying to be dishonest as you seem to imply. I was commenting on the difference in RELEASE between a bit with and without the dropped noseband. Besides keeping the horse's mouth shut, it does steady the bit and hold it. However the noseband doesn't have to be tight and I am not advocating for tight nosebands. I'm not necessarily a proponent for dropped nosebands, Sometimes I use one and sometimes I don't. I don't se it as cruel in the way that I use one. CJ [moderator's note: please use email list netiquette when posting to the list, by deleting the previous post from the bottom, or only quoting a line from the previous post and putting your response below that quote; thanks]
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
Tom Who? I sort of like Johnny Depp. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
On 06/12/2007, Karen Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I thought you belonged to the church of Tom Jones. So Janice, what type of service do you have? Do you just stand and stare at him and then throw panties on the altar? If I had a chance to meet a famous person, I can't imagine who it would be. Tom Jones does not come to mind. Wanda
[IceHorses] Books again
>>BTW, I crossed a really big hurdle on Saturday - I rode Skessa on our >>Christmas ride, with 22 other Icelandics. Mic<< Sounds like fun! Congratulations, Mic... Trish
[IceHorses] 1st time to scrub in
>>She is doing what she was meant to do and loving it.<< Laree in NC How wonderful that she found her calling and is following her dream. Can't see pics as I receive the digest version but you must be so proud! Trish
[IceHorses] Books again...and Parelli
>>Thanks to those of you (Mic and Trish) for recommending Sherri Tepper - I just finished Beauty and it was great.<< Oooh, I envy you, just starting out on your Tepper journey! I just finished her latest, "The Margarets" - fantastic. Have you read it yet, Mic? Two of my friends in the area are super-duper into Parelli and just spent two weeks at the Ocala training center, taking part in the Liberty and Horse Behavior course. A group of 10 of us are meeting biweekly and our two friends are going to teach us what they learned. We get together in each other's homes, sans horses and have dessert and coffee afterwards. :-) One of their first lessons was to define savvy. I had not heard this quote before but loved it..."When to be, where to be, why to be and what to do when you get there." Today we did an exercise where we paired up. One of us was the horse and the other the trainer. Without talking or gesturing, we had to communicate to the horse what we wanted it to do. It was very illuminating! For instance, I had to have my "horse" walk sideways to the fireplace. Sit on the mantle, cross her arms and legs, tap her toe 3 times, stand up, turn around and put her nose on the mantle. I learned I need to be quicker in my release and sometimes I was thinking so hard how to get her to do something that when she didn't understand me, I lost my train of thought and wasn't sure what I was trying to communicate either! Others learned to be soft and give the "horse" time to try and to reward the try. Trish
RE: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
re: "unsuitable for janice" this is bearing in mind most people think i should wear a tee shirt that says "I do my own stunts" and you havent been on the list long enough to read of some of my more adventurous debacles. Actually Janice, your adventures have been pretty tame since you've been on this list - I used to get gray hair, just reading your early stories with Jas and Stonewall on the gaitedhorse list! Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
[IceHorses] Angie - one week anniversary
Angie has been here a week today, and as luck would have it, I've had to work a lot this week. I was told that she could be jumpy, and that she could be pretty hard to catch. Runa has been her designated buddy during her settling in phase. I've been leading her and Runa out in a small pasture during the day, but bringing them back to the barn for the nights. They each have a private stall, with a small paddock attached overnight, but they can touch noses over the paddock fence. I will put her in the herd eventually, but for now, I want her 1) isolated so she can relax and settle into her new home, and 2) to get used to a routine of twice daily handling, so that coming in to the barn is a pleasant event, not just something she'll associate with some invasive (to her) procedure. There is another paddock between her pasture and her stall, so now all we have to do is open the gate to her pasture, and she and Runa are waiting at the gate, ready to calmly walk to the barn. I want to get her to the point where she doesn't mind me putting a halter on her in the pasture, but she's very pleasant and willing to come in, so for now, I think this is very good. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Horses in the snow
We got 5 inches of snow yesterday then it went down to zero this morning. Had very frosty horses. Wow - Beautiful! Falki never had a lot of snow here. I need to see if I can find one of him in the snow in NC. How big is he compared to Gloi? Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
Re: [IceHorses] Thumper stold Dagur's carrot.
> > I like going for short rides alone alot. I have always ridden alone. If I don't, who will go with me? You people are too far away. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Horses in the snow
> We got 5 inches of snow yesterday then it went down > to zero this > morning. Had very frosty horses. They've been > sunning themselves in > the pasture as it's warmed up to 30 F. It's so hard > to get photos of > them as they all want to be next to me. > How beautiful. They look like they are happy. Lorraine Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
RE: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
Tom Jones, Zeus, whats the difference, really karen, dont be argumentative. Janice- Hey, what am I supposed to do? Mic won't argue with me any more... :) Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
Re: [IceHorses] last weekend
> Taken by a friend (I was on a horse! ; )) - you > can't see the > tinsel and fairy lights that well. > > A grand day out - Icelandic Horse Christmas ride > sets out. How neat. I was glad to see some shaved horses to see how I can shave more hair off of mine..They all seem so calm. Wonderful. Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] OT-My typing is awful
> > oh nobody cares about that :) What you lack in > typeing you more than > make up for in content :) That is the nicest thing I have heard all day. Thanks. Lorraine Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [IceHorses] OT-My typing is awful
> > > i know myself, i am a stickler for capitalization > and periods > janice > -- I usually do proofread. But I have been lazy. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] Thumper stold Dagur's carrot.
>> you know guys, i hate to say it, but riding alone is >> highly over >> rated. I mean, unless you HAVE to. I like going for short rides alone alot. Bia
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
> I thought you belonged to the church of Tom Jones. Tom Jones, Zeus, whats the difference, really karen, dont be argumentative. Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
I don't see how just holding or steadying the bit in the horse's mouth is more cruel than using a bit at all. You know, one thing I have to hand the competitive dressage crowd. I've heard many well-known dressage trainers put it this way: the only purpose of a dropped noseband is to keep the horse's mouth shut. I think that sounds somewhat harsh, but I have to respect people who are at least direct and honest. I believe that the Icelanders picked up the use of dropped nosebands from the Germans probably in the early 1970's, and thus you might even say that there is a common source for its use in Iceland, and in dressage. So...why is it that I only hear it said within Icelandic circles that the dropped noseband is only for "steadying the bit in the horse's mouth?" Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
RE: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
and then, like people like me, who worship Zeus, we can't even have statues put up next to the veterans monument under the flagpole. Janice I thought you belonged to the church of Tom Jones. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
On 12/6/07, Raven <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Meanwhile, nobody bothers at all about offending Pagans on one of > their main festivals... > > and then, like people like me, who worship Zeus, we can't even have statues put up next to the veterans monument under the flagpole. Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
On 12/6/07, Christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Keepers also put pressure on the poll. My question was not about > the purpose of a dropped noseband, but about the issue Janice raised > about release. CJ > did my answer make sense? Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
>> Meanwhile, nobody bothers at all about offending Pagans on one of their main festivals... > I know! Bright blessings. Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Keepers also put pressure on the poll. My question was not about the purpose of a dropped noseband, but about the issue Janice raised about release. CJ
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 08:19:15PM +, Mic Rushen wrote: > It's gone mad here - something like 90% of schools are not holding > nativity plays this year in case they offend other religions, aren't nativity plays properly the province of churches, not schools? next thing you'll have churches not holding science fairs. oh wait... :) --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
> Not Janice but what I would say is that dropped nosebands in themselves are > not bad, we use them, but how tight you have them is what really prevents > there from having release. Same goes for contact on the reins - depends on > how much pressure the rider has on the reins. Many western reins are > weighted and so even a loose rein feels like contact. yes, exactly Robyn. If the noseband is digging in and across the bit so that it shoves it tight into the corners there is no release ever. In a normal bit and nose band there is release. Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
On 12/6/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > that doesn't mean they're not > "well-trained"; it may mean they are "unsuitable for janice" (who > doesn't seem the ottb type to me either). > > stjarni seems to tune himself somewhat to different riders. i go to a > lot of effort to help my students build a quiet, stable leg, but more to > help them avoid the "wobbly" feelings janice has complained about than > to keep stjarni from taking off lightning-like (he won't do that in the > ring anyway, re: "unsuitable for janice" this is bearing in mind most people think i should wear a tee shirt that says "I do my own stunts" and you havent been on the list long enough to read of some of my more adventurous debacles. oh the stuff my poor jaspar has lived thru... i dont know which was worse, when the mountain of clay collapsed and we fell through and i was suddenly up to my neck and he was underground trying to heave hisself out, or the time we were tripping along in the shallows of a huge lake and he fell into a gator nest and was thrashing to get out and rolled over on me, pinning me underwater... or hmm, lessee, there was that one time when I fell off him five times in five minutes and had to mount him jumping off a cliff like gene autry and landing on his back (thus the five times in five minutes.) and I have ridden two ottb's by the way. neither was as zoomy and squirrely as my gaited stonewall who beat one of them at a full gallop coming from 500 yards behind. or hmm... oh well, its so old now. the main reason i let my feet whop against teev's side when we ride is I am so utterly relaxed and so is he, just dun de dum, sauntering, my legs just doing what they want. smelling roses. he is used to it now! he loves it i think. he sure doesnt object! i bet he thinks of it like its a nice rhythm to walk to, going step and then my foot clunk, step clunk step clunk, the rhythm of the road, or trail as it were. like rhythm beads... and i know he doesnt mind because when he stopped to pee and I clinked him on purpose he reach and clacked his teeth at my toe like "knock it off, i have to do this now" Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
RE: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Are using keepers on a full cheek bit cruel too? My understanding is that the keepers on a full-cheek bit are to prevent injury to human bystanders, not for anything related to the horse. I had the sleeve of my tee-shirt ripped open when my old QH reached over to itch his face on me once, before I started using keepers. I fail to see any comparison to between keepers on a full-cheek bit versus a dropped noseband. The dropped noseband has one purpose: to keep the horse's mouth shut. Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
RE: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
Now let's not dwell on this. Lesson learned, do better next time! Well, at least Melnir went out of business with a bang...oops, poor choice of words. ;) Karen Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] ( No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?!
Horses opening their mouths: Hunter, not an Icelandic, but a TWH, does all sorts of weird things with his mouth. I tried the snaffle bit I have always preferred and a kimberwick, but he fussed and fumed and could "run through" the snaffle. Finally, I tried the S-hack that many endurance riders use. He loves it, but even bitless, he does goofy things with his mouth. Just a couple of months ago, I realized he is missing a piece out of the side/tip of his tongue and has a long scar running up his tongue. Do you suppose he was trying to tell me something? Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] Horse in need
Hi Gail, I'm in Oregon and might be able to help you or put you in contact with someone who could, but your actual e-mail address is not displayed on my computer. I think there is quite a group of Icelandic owners at your end of the state that are part of the Cascade Icelandic Club. Will you e-mail me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? Nancy
RE: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
Hi Wanda >>>Wasn't there an English teacher who recently allowed her class to name a Teddy Bear - Mohamed and she was nearly put to death because of the parents outrage. I can't recall what country that was in though. It was in Sudan. Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 14:40:39 -0600, you wrote: >Wasn't there an English teacher who recently allowed her class to name >a Teddy Bear - Mohamed and she was nearly put to death because of the >parents outrage. I can't recall what country that was in though. Sudan. The penalties were either 6 months in prison, 40 lashes or a huge fine, but in the end she got 2 weeks in prison, and she was actually released and came home yesterday. The silliest thing is, apparently the bear was actually named Mohammed after one of the boys in the class, nothing to do with the Prophet! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?!
Sorry for sending such a huge file!!! Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
On 06/12/2007, Mic Rushen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Meanwhile, nobody bothers at all about offending Pagans on one of > their main festivals... Wasn't there an English teacher who recently allowed her class to name a Teddy Bear - Mohamed and she was nearly put to death because of the parents outrage. I can't recall what country that was in though. Wanda
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 10:10:42 -0600, you wrote: >We should respect others religions i >think. It's gone mad here - something like 90% of schools are not holding nativity plays this year in case they offend other religions, while there are now several UK cities where white Christians are by far the minority. Don't get me wrong, I am not a religious or race fanatic by any means (nor a Christian) but this is political correctness gone wild. Meanwhile, nobody bothers at all about offending Pagans on one of their main festivals... It's a funny old world. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
[IceHorses] last weekend
Taken by a friend (I was on a horse! ; )) - you can't see the tinsel and fairy lights that well. A grand day out - Icelandic Horse Christmas ride sets out. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jDUNmu3_cYM Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
Re: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding / Open Mouths
On 06/12/2007, Robyn Hood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Judy > >>>why do you think the horses would be opening their mouths in > the cases that you have seen? > > I don't really know - they weren't necessarily horses that I had seen do it > with a bit. I'm curious. When a horse is ventroflexed harshly, is it possible that the mouth is opened as a reflex reaction? Are there muscles that would cause that to happen when a horse is forced to 'star gaze'?? Wanda
RE: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding / Open Mouths
Hi Judy >>>why do you think the horses would be opening their mouths in the cases that you have seen? I don't really know - they weren't necessarily horses that I had seen do it with a bit. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
RE: [IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Hi Christine, >>>Janice, You state that the horse never gets release with a dropped noseband. Are you saying that the horse feels no release when the pressure on the reins Not Janice but what I would say is that dropped nosebands in themselves are not bad, we use them, but how tight you have them is what really prevents there from having release. Same goes for contact on the reins - depends on how much pressure the rider has on the reins. Many western reins are weighted and so even a loose rein feels like contact. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding?!?!
Janice, You state that the horse never gets release with a dropped noseband. Are you saying that the horse feels no release when the pressure on the reins (thus the bit and mouth) is softened? I thought about what you said, and realized that the horse doesn't ever feel complete release even if there is no nose band. The bit is still in the corners of the mouth and across the tongue. When you are riding a horse there is always pressure on his back, and there is pressure on his sides even if your leg is draped softly on his sides. I don't see that one can ever give total release when riding. Why do you feel that a dropped noseband is inherently cruel? Are using keepers on a full cheek bit cruel too? I don't see how just holding or steadying the bit in the horse's mouth is more cruel than using a bit at all. If you can explain it in a scientific way on the mechanics of dropped vs no dropped, I would reconsider my opinion. Facts, though, not opinion or emotion, are needed for your argument. [moderator's note: please use email list netiquette when posting to the list, by deleting the previous post from the bottom, or only quoting a line from the previous post and putting your response below that quote; thanks]
Re: [IceHorses] OT-My typing is awful
On 12/6/07, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm always glad to see someone else's typo's Lorraine. I used to do a lot > of proof-reading. Now when I read my own posts, I groan. > > Nancy > i know myself, i am a stickler for capitalization and periods janice -- yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] Re: What Are They Applauding / Open Mouths
> I have seen horses open their mouths without a bit - actually even with a neck ring I have seen it once or twice - have never gotten a photo. I've seen it with Icelandics but other breeds as well. Robyn, why do you think the horses would be opening their mouths in the cases that you have seen? Judy
RE: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?!
Hi Judy >>>What type of occasions are the horses opening their mouths (i.e. what activity, circumstances)? I have seen horses open their mouths without a bit - actually even with a neck ring I have seen it once or twice - have never gotten a photo. I've seen it with Icelandics but other breeds as well. I don't see it as the same thing as the photos with the horses with tight nosebands and the reins applying many pounds of pressure to the horse's mouth - which is different than having a light contact on the reins. Robyn Icelandic Horse Farm Robyn Hood & Phil Pretty Vernon BC Canada www.icefarm.com
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
> giant cement buddha in the lotus position with the hole in one in his > crotch area. That must be so offensive to buddhists who drive by, its > located right on the highway beside a giant cement dinosaur. just > doesnt seem right somehow. We should respect others religions i > think. i agree with the sentiment, but i must say in my experience buddhists have a much greater sense of humor about depictions of their sacred figures than christians do. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
On Thu, Dec 06, 2007 at 07:15:46AM -0500, Karen Thomas wrote: > Anyway, her quote above makes me think of something. A lot of us have heard > the old warnings that we shouldn't use our legs on our Icelandic's. I've > heard some Icelandic's described as "well-trained" but buyers were warned > never to use legs on them. Isn't that a conflict in terms? Ok, how can a > horse be "well-trained" in any sense if you can't put your legs on him > without risking him/her taking off like a rocket? let's consider what "training" means. it means "association of an action by a rider with a desired response by the horse", yes? so for any given rider, their range of actions is what's available to the horse. i suspect that people familiar with horses such as you describe wuold no more miscue them with their legs than i would set off a racetrack bell near an ottb. that doesn't mean they're not "well-trained"; it may mean they are "unsuitable for janice" (who doesn't seem the ottb type to me either). stjarni seems to tune himself somewhat to different riders. i go to a lot of effort to help my students build a quiet, stable leg, but more to help them avoid the "wobbly" feelings janice has complained about than to keep stjarni from taking off lightning-like (he won't do that in the ring anyway, but besides that, his training is such that his cue for that is a half-seat, a cluck, and a release with the reins -- no leg at all). he *might* let j get away with a jiggy foot; i don't know. he lets some of my students get away with their legs sliding back halfway to his croup, for instance. but a jiggy foot from me -- that gets lateral movement away from my foot. a foot moved back -- even an eighth of the way croupwards -- from me means "this cue is just for your hindquarters". is that "bad training"? i don't think so; i taught him that on purpose and am glad he's gotten good at it, though i now have to work even harder on my own stability of leg so as not to cue him inadvertently. (or perhaps he is training me, which i feel is within his job description as a school horse.) i guess my summary point here is, a connection between rider action and horse reaction is not inherently "bad training". indeed, a reliable relationship between the two is *good* training. after that the only rough bit is matching up horse and rider and getting them to understand one another, which i think is best done at the one-to-one level (as with janice and tivar), so that the two partners know what to expect and how to get along. --vicka
Re: [IceHorses] OT-My typing is awful
I'm always glad to see someone else's typo's Lorraine. I used to do a lot of proof-reading. Now when I read my own posts, I groan. Nancy
Re: [IceHorses] OT-My typing is awful
On 12/6/07, Lorraine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Everyone, I read some of my posts. I type like a > drunk. Sorry about that. > > Lorraine > oh nobody cares about that :) What you lack in typeing you more than make up for in content :) Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?!
>>Do they open their mouths at liberty? with sidepulls? >> > Occasionally they do. I was quite surprised to notice when judging how > often horses in sidepulls do actually open their mouths, and also foam > at the mouth, when ridden. Ohmigosh! You're kidding?!??! Are these Icelandics? Can you get any pictures of this? What type of occasions are the horses opening their mouths (i.e. what activity, circumstances)? Judy http://icehorses.net http://clickryder.com
Re: [IceHorses] Horse in need
this is sad. I think sometimes it is a mean trainer, but then sometimes I think also its just that these horses are so sensitive and intelligent, that when life changes for them it gives them something similar to post traumatic stress, they just cant cope and become nervous wrecks, or dangerous horses who no longer think when ridden, everything they do just becomes a right brain fear based reaction and it then becomes a tough job to get them back... to get them to engage the thinking brain and not the reactive one. I am so sorry you have a broken pelvis! These goey horses can really hurt you. Seems the more laid back ones, though still with issues and hangups, are more hesitant to expend the energy to dump you! Riding Tivar last weekend a mountain bike was following us and I didnt know. Tivar started acting weirder and weirder and finally came to a dead halt and made a hairpin U out of his body staring back and thats when I heard the leaves crackling and the bicyclist came from the woods. She just smiled and said HELLO all happy and Teev just stared at her wild eyed while she passed not three feet from his shoulder while the arabian in front of me went nuts and almost tossed the rider. If I had been on my stonewall he would have spun front to back in an instant and thats very hard to sit! You sound like such a caring person. I am so glad you are here, and that you have this horse and that he will be able to heal now! Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
And most (all?) horses can certainly learn to recognize the difference between a "cue" and a "bumble." If they can't, I wouldn't call them well-trained. They might be "started", but I couldn't consider them well trained. and i think if they over-react to a bumble they have trust/past abuse issues. Janice-- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] OT - e-mail help
>> Does anyone know how I can get rid of some truly disgusting SPAM I'm getting on Outlook Express? Have you tried using Firefox as your browser and Gmail for your mail? Both are free and easy to use. Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
>> I want one!http://glasstoilets.com/showroom.php HAHA!! Crazy girl! Raven Lucy & Molly, the Girl Doggies Huginn & Dixie Chick, the Back Behind the Barn Ponies Maggie Rose, the cat who makes me sneeze Respect ALL Earthlings. We are all animals of this planet. We are all creatures.
Re: [IceHorses] Remington at Tejon Ranch 50, Photo #2
In a message dated 12/6/2007 1:14:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: All sixteen of my great grandparents emigrated west on the trail either on horseback, in a wagon, on foot or even pulling a handcart in the 1840's and 1850's. I meant all sixteen of my great great grandparents. Like most of you, I only had eight great grandparents. John Parke Solvang CA **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)
Re: [IceHorses] OT - e-mail help
> Does anyone know how I can get rid of some truly > disgusting SPAM I'm getting > on Outlook Express? > Increase the security level on your email so the SPAM lands in the junk mail folder. And, for the email you want to recieve set up a filter (i.e. icehorses) so it comes through. You can also approve specific senders. Kind of a pain, but worth the trouble if you are getting a lot of spam. -Kristen in MI (brrr...-10 degrees Fahrenheit on my drive to work) Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] OT - e-mail help
On Dec 6, 2007 9:04 AM, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Does anyone know how I can get rid of some truly disgusting SPAM I'm getting > on Outlook Express? I'd sure like to know as well. I'm getting a ton of it in my Gmail spam folder and I still go thru without opening all the mail because sometimes non-spam ends up in there. I wonder if my referring to the anatomical part of Gloi showing that he is relaxed has been the reason for the proliferation of spam referring to enlargement of this part. I feel like I've gotten more of it since I've gotten some 'chain' e-mails forwarded to me from one of the girls at work. -- Anna Southern Ohio
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
> I want one! > http://glasstoilets.com/showroom.php > How bazarre. They should have one with horse swimming. Lorraine Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
[IceHorses] OT-My typing is awful
Everyone, I read some of my posts. I type like a drunk. Sorry about that. Lorraine Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
Re: [IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
very cute :) but one thing I cant ever get over we would never consider a glass toilet tank with jesus christ in it, but there is Buddha, a sacred figure to much of the world. On our beach here we have a goofy golf miniature golf course and one of the holes is a giant cement buddha in the lotus position with the hole in one in his crotch area. That must be so offensive to buddhists who drive by, its located right on the highway beside a giant cement dinosaur. just doesnt seem right somehow. We should respect others religions i think. jmo Janice -- yipie tie yie yo
Re: [IceHorses] Horse in need
> > If any of you have suggestions training ideas, > know people who might > help, anything useful please contact me on list or > off. Thank you > and thank you again for any help you can provide. > Gail, That is a great story. I wish I had the land to rescue horses. Lorraine Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?!
i have always heard foam wasnt a bad thing. some materials such as copper make more foam and its supposed to be nice for them to have a lubricated mouth. What gets me is the tight nosebands OUCH and the way the noseband goes across and jams the bit HIGH in the corners of the mouth. This means no release EVER, no way to escape the pain. and horses learn from release! this is so cruel. janice -- yipie tie yie yo
[IceHorses] Animal Flatulence contributes to Global Warming
Global Farting Fighting climate change through reduced flatulence. By William Saletan Updated Friday, June 1, 2007, at 9:40 AM ET Britain may recommend reducing meat consumption to fight global warming. Rationale: "Cattle and sheep release millions of metric tons of methane gas a year into the environment through flatulence. In New Zealand … farm animals produce some 90 percent of the country's methane emissions." A British official says the government "is working on a set of key environmental behavior changes to mitigate climate change. Consumption of animal protein has been highlighted within that work." Officials' caveat: We won't "enforce a dietary or lifestyle change." Carnivores' reaction: Sure, we'll let you stop us from eating meat ... right after you stop animals from farting. AND THE UPDATE Hold the Fart Fighting global warming through animal burps. By William Saletan Updated Thursday, Dec. 6, 2007, at 9:16 AM ET Scientists are trying to fight global warming by changing animal flatulence. Emissions from livestock reportedly account for up to half of greenhouse gas emissions in some countries. Kangaroos have stomach bacteria that eliminate methane from their gas; scientists want to transfer these bacteria to sheep and cattle. Bonus: The bacteria could improve digestive efficiency by 10 to 15 percent, thereby reducing feed costs. Alternative proposal: Eat less cattle and more kangaroo meat: "It's low in fat, it's got high protein levels," and "it's the ultimate free range animal." -- Laree in NC Doppa & Mura Simon, Sadie and Sam (the "S" gang) "Yet when all the books have been read and reread, it boils down to the horse, his human companion, and what goes on between them." - William Farley IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [IceHorses] A good horse
--- Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> He looked back at us and sort of raised an eyebrow, but he stood absolutely still.<< He sounds like my mother's spotted saddle horse, Fireman. Before mom got her knee replacement, she would have to throw her belly across the saddle and schooch her right leg over Fireman's rump to get on as she could not put any weight in her left leg to mount. One day, mom threw her belly too far over the saddle and ended up on the ground on the other side, laughing her ass off on the ground, and Fireman just stood there patiently the whole time! Susan in NV Nevermore Ranch http://users.oasisol.com/nevermore/ Disclaimer CAUTION: DO NOT DRIVE WITH HOT COFFEE IN YOUR LAP Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
> > I know Regumate seems to work, but you know, I also alize that it > encourages marginally fertile mares to become pregnant. That can be a good > thing I suppose, but I also think the fertility of this breed IS higher than > with many (maybe most?) breeds. I'd hate to see us doing anything to > inadvertently encourage the proliferation of less-fertile horses. I know > that Melnir's fertility was good, and I know that Anneliese's mares have > shown great conception rates, so I guess Regumate wouldn't have been > out-of-line in this situation. > > > Karen Thomas, NC To be certain of conception within the 5 days, the mares would have had to "synchronized" on the heat cycle prior to the one we were aiming for. And I don't think we planned early enough for that. Now let's not dwell on this. Lesson learned, do better next time! Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
On 12/5/07 3:34 AM, "Mic Rushen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, 4 Dec 2007 22:19:25 -0500, you wrote: > If you need a mare to be in season at a specific time it's worth using > something like Regumate to induce ovulation. We're lucky with our lot > - they get to run with the boys for 3 or 4 months usually. > > Mic Conception with the first induced heat is not very good; better with the second one after synchronization. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] help with Icies wanted/false heat
On 12/5/07 3:31 AM, "Mic Rushen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How long were they with him for? Or were they covered in hand? If so, > how many times over how many days? And does he have lots of other > foals this year? (if not I would worry about his fertility...) > > Sorry you won't be having any next Srping, though, that's a real > shame. > > Mic Me too, and it is all my fault, not Melnir's. I have since heard that when mares first come in contact with a stallion (if they are not normally near a stallion), they tend to act as if they were in heat. My experience for all these years until I sold my stallions was that mares would stand for breeding only if close to ovulation; but that was when there were stallions here. And before and after that there would be just a lot of squealing etc. My mares had not seen or been near a stallion since Melnir left here over three years ago. So I suppose they were making the best of the situation and Melnir did not quarrel. If I had followed Karen's advice to leave Melnir here for another few weeks, I am certain the results would have been much better. It's to bad that at this age I still have to learn from bad experiences. Anneliese
Re: [IceHorses] OT - SPAM
On 06/12/2007, Nancy Sturm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > An additional question: it's not addressed to me, it's addressed to a > gazillion other names and from dozens of different names - perhaps why I > can't block it? We're getting the same thing and we haven't found a way to get rid of it. Some suggestions would be appreciated. Wanda
[IceHorses] OT - SPAM
An additional question: it's not addressed to me, it's addressed to a gazillion other names and from dozens of different names - perhaps why I can't block it? Nancy
[IceHorses] OT - e-mail help
Does anyone know how I can get rid of some truly disgusting SPAM I'm getting on Outlook Express? I am blocking the sender each time, but it just crops back up with another sender. Nancy
[IceHorses] OT--Glass Toilets
I want one! http://glasstoilets.com/showroom.php -- Virginia Tupper NB, Canada
[IceHorses] Not using your legs on a horse... ???
>>> thats my Jas, and lately Teev. just carry on while i do the goofiest >>> things. with Teev last weekend I realized my left foot is sorta bobbing >>> aginst his side the whole time i ride. But he somehow deciphers it when i >>> give a nudge or a soft cue to go right, also like Jas he has learned the >>> difference between a real kick and a clumsy knock of my foot. amazing they >>> learn that. when I first started riding him he would flatten his ears a >>> little like he was aggravated that i didnt know how to do things but now he >>> is like Jas, has it figured out. I've had an advantage that most list members haven't - I've met Janice in person. I've seen her ride. But, more than that, I've seen her horses, and I've seen what she's done with some pretty sad cases that she's taken in, and managed to make wonderful, solid citizens out of. I saw Tivar's nervousness and pissiness when he first came here in March 2006, and I saw him get better here with some relaxed ground work, and the ulcer treatment. Still, I sort of expected he would regress at least a little when he went to live with Janice - but he didn't. Certainly not much. And one of the joys of my life was seeing him come back here, about 11 months after he left here, and he's a totally relaxed, happy horse. Janice makes herself sound bumbling and ridiculous - and maybe she's not always the most physically coordinated person. (Like I am...?!!! HA!) But, her horses tell me all I need to know, particularly Tivar, who I know is quite outspoken with his opinions. He loves Janice and he trusts her, and he'd let us know if that wasn't true. All of her horses happy and healthy too. Anyway, her quote above makes me think of something. A lot of us have heard the old warnings that we shouldn't use our legs on our Icelandic's. I've heard some Icelandic's described as "well-trained" but buyers were warned never to use legs on them. Isn't that a conflict in terms? Ok, how can a horse be "well-trained" in any sense if you can't put your legs on him without risking him/her taking off like a rocket? In one sense, most horses have normal riders who will on occasion do bumbling things as Janice described. (Probably ALL riders to be truthful...god knows Cary and I have plenty of those moments...) On the other extreme, we may want to ask a horse to sidepass, leg yield, move over to open a gate on the trail, or we might want to ask for a canter using a traditional canter aid. Can most people do these things without using their legs? Judy often makes the distinction between "cues" and "aids" - we can certainly use our legs to be a natural "aid" in communications. Why would we want to eliminate such an easy and potentially clear form of communication? And most (all?) horses can certainly learn to recognize the difference between a "cue" and a "bumble." If they can't, I wouldn't call them well-trained. They might be "started", but I couldn't consider them well trained. Karen Karen Thomas Wingate, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
RE: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?!
>>> Is it me or do those horses look like they are in pain? Yes, and they also look terrified if you ask me. I know that one of the horses, the chestnut, is reigning Icelandic World Champion. Pretty sad that that sort of thing is winning at the top levels in our breed. It makes me ashamed. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM
RE: [IceHorses] Barn Sour was Thumper stold Dagur's carrot.
>>> My rule became -- we don't take a step until both of us are comfortable with it. ... We had some very long (time) but short (distance) rides when we first started doing this, but it worked and with out any drama. And in the process it built a strong bond between us. Now she will go pretty much any where I point her, but if I do feel her getting concerned I give her the extra support she needs. Hi Kat - first, good to hear from you! That was a great post, and very sound advice I think. Karen Thomas, NC No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.15/1173 - Release Date: 12/5/2007 9:29 PM IceHorses Community for Photos and Videos: http://kickapps.com/icehorses "The greatest enemy of the truth very often is not the lie- deliberate, contrived and dishonest -- but the myth -- persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." ~ Arthur Schopenhauer [] Lee Ziegler http://leeziegler.com [] Liz Graves http://lizgraves.com [] Lee's Book Easy Gaited Horses http://tinyurl.com/7vyjo [] IceHorses Map http://www.frappr.com/IceHorses Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/IceHorses/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [IceHorses] Horse in need
Last summer I went looking for an Icelandic horse for my husband. We found a beautiful (aren't they all) 10-year-old gelding advertised as perfect - trained, bombproof, and old enough to have the sillies out. Hi, Gail. Are you new to the list, or have you been lurking for a while? I ask, because I don't know if you know that I'm one of the suckers on the list. I just got still another project horse last week. These stories just kill me. Oh man...don't you just want to strangle some horse traders? Your poor horse. Bad enough that he had these experiences, but to be misrepresented as a safe and trained horse so that he might hurt someone is just inexcusable. >>> The story is absent malice - except for the evil trainer - full of neglect and a clearly one of a horse in need of help. Do you know if he was ignored in the pasture for the first three years, before he was sold? That seems to be the "Icelandic tradition" and frankly, I think it stinks. Some horses seem to do ok despite that early lack of attention, but I'm seeing many who suffer the rest of their lives from lack of trust in humans. I have several horses here from the same family (sisters, a brother, a couple of nieces), including two born here (and handled from birth), and four others raised with varying degrees of the old "leave 'em alone until they're four" attitude, and you can certainly tell the difference. The new Icelandic mare that I just got is 11, and probably had the least handling/attention of any of these. She doesn't seem spooky AT ALL about "stuff" - leaves blowing, a fallen limb stuck in her tail, tractors starting up, dogs or cats appearing from nowhere - but let a person make a sudden move around her and she jumps like crazy.She's getting better already, but, gee, I wish someone had handled her as a baby. I really doubt she'll ever get over ALL of her wariness towards people. Horses have tremendous memories. >>> I hired the trainer at our boarding barn to help review classical basic training. There are four of us who ride him and he has dumped all but one of us in a panic. Mounting seems to hold some evil memories. Last week I mounted him and he was fine until I had trouble with a stirrup and reached down to adjust it. The boy panicked, spun around and took off leaving me on the ground with a broken pelvis. Well, it sounds like you've done a great job with him, but obviously he still has demons haunting him. A couple more questions - have you had his back really checked well for pain? (I don't trust every vet or professional to do this well, although some are great.) My first Icelandic rehab was so stoic, he wouldn't flinch for a "normal" type back check...but man, when the chiropractor first touched him with her more aggressive pressure, I swear he lunged forward about 20 feet. I then took him to a vet who does acupuncture and traditional medicine (since his problems SEEMED to be more soft-tissue related) and that vet recommended a massage/acupressurist to get us started. The vet said the horse had more pent-up pain than any horse he'd ever seen, and he couldn't tell where to begin checking him, and unless I wanted to spend thousands on a full body checkup... After we saw some progress with the acupressurist, maybe just 3-4 sessions later, he advised us to return to the referring vet. He horse had loosened up enough for them to agree that the pain seemed to be originating in two spots. X-rays were negative for kissing spines around his withers, so he injected his withers with steroids. The horse has been physically fine since. He's gotten much better with his trust issues too - he always wanted to trust people. The second question: have you had him checked for ulcers? I had one Icelandic "problem horse" who had none of the "traditional" signs of ulcers - he was in good weight, had a good appetite (boy is that an understatement!), and his coat was healthy and shiny. When all else checked out well, the vet (the same one who helped me untangle the first gelding's issues) suggested that we treat him for ulcers. The horse would buck, was reactive to pressure around his belly...and the real clue to me was that his last owner told me he would always get worse after a session with a trainer - he too had some unfortunate early training experiences. (I think his saving grace was that he had some loving handling from birth, so he had some good associations with some people.) Newer research is showing a strong link between stressed horses (stressed from all sorts of causes) and ulcers. Gastrogard isn't cheap, but the good news is that a tube will treat up to a 1400-pound horse. My vet checked with the manufacturer, and they said that it should be fine to give a 700-800 pound Icelandic a half dose, so that cut my cost in half. His reaction to some simple loving, LOW-PRESSURE ground-work, along with the Gastrogard was amazing... And, finally, what kind of saddle are you using on him? Bit? Othe
Re: [IceHorses] Remington at Tejon Ranch 50, Photo #2
In a message dated 12/5/2007 5:36:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That ride is a long way from Southern Oregon, but I would love to do it some time. My great grandfather was stationed at Ft. Tejon with the US Cavalry. I suppose there are people who ride where their great-grandfathers had ridden, but for me that would be a rare treat. Very interesting observation, Nancy. I have had the opportunity to ride where my great grandparents rode and it was wonderful. As you probably know, the Oregon Trail, the California Trail, the Mormon Trail and the Pony Express Trail are mostly the same trail through Nebraska and Wyoming. They were exactly the same trail when they passed through central Wyoming. Major stretches of the Trail in Wyoming are pristine. especially where the Trail crosses the continental divide at South Pass and also as the Trail leaves the desert east of Farson. You see the trail but no buildings, fences, telephone poles or other manmade objects in any direction. All sixteen of my great grandparents emigrated west on the trail either on horseback, in a wagon, on foot or even pulling a handcart in the 1840's and 1850's. When we rode the Pony Express Trail from Missouri to California in 2001, I stopped for a moment at the narrow gap where the Trail passes through next to the famous Devil's Gate on the Sweetwater River. The gap isn't thirty feet wide. I remember thinking that I was standing on a spot where every one of my great grandparents had stood. In 2004, when we rode the central Wyoming stretch of the Trail backwards (i.e. from west to east) I remember looking out across the landscape and observing that there was nothing visible to even tell what century I was in. I closed my eyes and could hear the voices of ancestors I spent time with, including my great grand mother, grand father, great uncle and of course my own late father as clearly as though they were with me. I remember thinking that if I could choose the place where my life will someday end that this would be the place. It was a truly mystical experience. A few days later I rode over South Pass on Remington with my oldest son on Skjoldur. When we crossed the summit and later when we forded the Sweetwater River, we talked about how our ancestors had done the same thing so many years ago. I remember thinking that sharing that experience while we fifty miles together that day was one of the most satisfying days of my life. So there you are. The opportunity for contemplation our horses provide us is a treasure. John Parke Solvang CA **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301)
[IceHorses] Horse in need
Last summer I went looking for an Icelandic horse for my husband. We found a beautiful (aren't they all) 10-year-old gelding advertised as perfect trained, bombproof, and old enough to have the sillies out. He seemed depressed and a bit skinny but that would be easy to fix. An Icelandic trainer was in town for the summer and she spent every day she had left (ten) working with us. Our boy hadn't been ridden for " a few months" and was soon trying to tolt around the arena. He didn't seem to match his advertisement so I dug into his background. It's sad. The story is absent malice except for the evil trainer full of neglect and a clearly one of a horse in need of help. While this horse proved to be NOT what I was looking for the idea of sending him back was out of the question. We would give him a better home and see if we could nurse him back to emotional and physical health. Here's the story. The breeder sold him at three to a family who adored him. When he was four they sent him out for 30 days and he returned with no trust in humans whatsoever. The trainer called him crazy. The owner put out an SOS and hired a TTouch person who later agreed to buy him. He went home to a hillside and the following year was sent out for a second year of training. That trainer said he froze when confused, but was fine. Things got away from his owner and eventually he put him up for sale. A woman spending the summer with the owners had found the horses underweight and neglected and done everything in her power to help get them back to health. We bought him three months after she arrived. My boy is making huge progress. His health was the easy part. I had a hoof trimmer take care of his hooves within hours of his arrival. His feet are good they'd simply been neglected for a long time. We had his teeth floated, cleaned him up, wormed him and I groomed him daily getting his old winter coat to finally come out at the end of August. We got his weight back up in an acceptable range and he had friends in the pasture. Life was looking up. He loved the attention. I worked on the ground with the horse while we were getting his health back. He was too weak to ride and was still nervous. He'd sweat and his heart would pound at the site of the arena so we took it slow. I rode him for short amounts of time, mostly at walk, often times with my husband walking next to us. By October the sweating and racing heart had slowed and I took him for trail rides down to a meadow where the grass was delicious. He did spook once when my husband's new horse spooked behind him but was able to stop himself. When the same thing happened a second time moments later he barely jumped. It was a different story in the arena. I hired the trainer at our boarding barn to help review classical basic training. There are four of us who ride him and he has dumped all but one of us in a panic. Mounting seems to hold some evil memories. Last week I mounted him and he was fine until I had trouble with a stirrup and reached down to adjust it. The boy panicked, spun around and took off leaving me on the ground with a broken pelvis. I'm blessed with a mind and touch to train animals. I trained my own service dog. My body is fragile and can't take abuse. I refuse to live in a cage but do need to stick to safer horses. My husband reasonably requested we find a better home for our Icelandic boy. I'm not the only person who loves horses and someone will get a treasure with this one. He is so close and I'd bet the farm he will bond with utter devotion to whoever gets his demons to leave. I love this horse enough to send him to a better home. Short of better, I can't part with him. He'd be easy to sell. He has a beautiful pedigree, is tall, loves kids and is absolute eye candy. His tolt is a sweet ride. He was a great horse when he was young and will be again. If any of you have suggestions training ideas, know people who might help, anything useful please contact me on list or off. Thank you and thank you again for any help you can provide. Gail Portland, Oregon
Re: [IceHorses] What Are They Applauding?!?!
On Wed, 5 Dec 2007 15:39:56 -0800, you wrote: >Why would a horse >open his mouth? Pain. Lack of training. Excitement/stress (wanting to go faster than allowed). To breathe ( if the noseband is restricting breathing through the nose). >Do they open their mouths at liberty? with sidepulls? > Occasionally they do. I was quite surprised to notice when judging how often horses in sidepulls do actually open their mouths, and also foam at the mouth, when ridden. Mic Mic (Michelle) Rushen --- Solva Icelandic Horses and DeMeulenkamp Sweet Itch Rugs: www.solva-icelandics.co.uk --- "Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes"
