[IceHorses] Re: Melnir's Sensation breast collar
sending BP measurments I've sold about 100 Icelandic sized breast plates to Icelandics over the years I've been a dealer 95% fit just fine because of the adjustability of all the straps/hardware. All that being said, I do like to speak by phone to anyone placing orders so I can get a better understanding of sizing requirements. Some of the more refined Iceys do need to have custom sized ones made this has been no extra charge so far. Usually if the Icey takes an 18 or 20Sensation girth, we need to investigate further. My 14.3h/(since we dieted) 1000lb. Lalli uses the same Icey sized breast plate as Selur my 800lb guy, but the strap adjustment needs to be changed for each. This is why I'm ordering a second one...too much hassle to change e/o day. Some of the young, not yet fully grown Ices may also need a custom sized one as well or ones with narrow chests. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: breast collar
WandaI believe it's impotant to have a breast collar for atability in treeless Being a dealer for Sensation a saddle fit consultant for many years, I hear a lot of horrendous stories from around the country happening with all different breeds of horses. Maybe this is what colors me to be particularly cautious in my recommendations to others as well as how I choose to handle my horses. Many of the accidents I hear of could have been easily prevented by using safety stirrups, of course a helmut a well fitting english hunt style breast plate in either treed or treeless. Even though my guys have been with me for almost 14 years are quite calm family horses, things can go awry if that does happen, I prefer that the lateral slip of the saddle is limited by a breast plate..and that my foot will come out of the stirrups if I do fall ..and my skull is protected.Even if 99% of the time your horse behaves in s safe manner, for the sake of that 1% I believe it's worth using a breast plate, safety stirrups, most importantly a helmut any time you get on your horse. It certainly itsn't going to hurt either horse or rider. Just last week a woman called me for a Sensation demo (for her other horse) whose normally calm horse had gotten a foot caught in the stirrup of a saddle that had completely gone under when she came off in a spook around her yard. She was just bruised, but the horse has a very long layup ahead due to back/neck trauma from being flipped forward. This was with a treeless saddle with closed stirrup hangers metal safety stirrups. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Trausti was a big star! (in Zilco tack)
Break strength snaps Yes, I thought they would break too, but that has not been my experience. Used Dana's snaps on the ends of my sidepull reins Lalli stepped on one rein. Neither the snap nor the synthetic rein broke..big chiropractic bill..sore horse. This is when I switched to all leather with fuses. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Trausti was a big star! (in Zilco tack)
Sensation makes a breast plate specifically sized for Icelandics. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: breast collar
Dana will make any sizing you need on breast plates if the leather color is still available can match the liners which velcro on off (or can be permanently sewn on) to your saddle. She also has many different colors of both beta biothane granite biothane so you can have contratsing or matching colors. I personally like the velcro on liner idea. That way you have versatility to match your mood. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Trausti was a big star! (in Zilco tack)
breast collars can be trickier than fitting a bridle I agree with Karen T. on this one. Since I have two Iceys, I'm getting tired of adjusting the one I have for each horse may just have to suck it up buy a second one.. the decision is, try another brand or go with a second Sensation??? I really like everything about the Sensation Icelandic breast plate with the exception that the whither piece is heavy because of all the hardware. I haven't found a way around that issue yet. Is the Zilco breast plate as heavy in the whithers piece???Pros cons on the Zilco anyone??? Input on any other favorite brands ??? What size??? What kind of fit guidelines do you guys use for the center between the legs piece, the two side arms the whither piece??? I have been making sure that when the horse puts their head down into the eat position that I can fit a fist's width under each piece, but surely there are better ways??? Maybe that's too much in certain areas??/ Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Skito pads
Having trouble with Skito I have been an agent with Skito for over 10 years (over 500 pads ordered) have never experienced any difficulty in my customers receiving their orders within the 3-4 week custom manufacture period. Maybe I can be of help to either of you. I haven't followed this thread, so please contact me OFF LIST (805)688-2503 to bring me up to speed. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Trausti was a big star! (in Zilco tack)
Zilco breast plat What size Zilco breast plate did you order for Trausti??? How is the fit different from the Sensation Icey size..pros/cons?? Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Hot Weather Idea
Janice...I just love this idea...reicpe for the fruitcicles!!??? Kaaren PS.Thanks for all the great hot weather comfort ideas!!!
[IceHorses] Re:LittleJoe saddle pad
Little Joe Pad When I ordered mine, I ordered it 3 shorter than standard provided my own Sensation billets. I too did not care for their free under pad either instead put my Skito Sensation Pad underneath. If the stirrup hangers bother you, just take the pad to a local saddler have him stitch a 5 x5 suede square which has a velcro strip down each side onto the LJ Pad. It covers the rings nicely. A saddler can also cut the rear of the Little Joe down a few inches re-attach the binding. Both of my horses liked the Little Joe Pad a lot, but it was too wide for my narrow hips. Elizabeth at Little Joe refunded my money in full even though it was a special order. Several of my saddle fit clients whose hips are not as narrow as mine love the Little Joe as an alternate to their treeless. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Completely OT - Cure for a bad day
Re: Matt Hardings You Tube Very, very amazing!!! I wish more humans would express their spirit like Matt. What a different place our planet could be!!! Thanks to whoever found this. It's getting filed under my Having A Bad Day Antidote!! Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Hay Prices
Skyrocketing hay prices Tell me about it...our went up from $19.99 a compressed bale for timothy to $24.99 a bale and rising in one year. My friends in Bend Oregon say that theirs has gone from $6.00 per bale for orchard grass to $7.00 per bale in one year. Up there, the hay is grown locally you pick up, so the gas prices have'nt effected tothe prices that much. They also irrigate from state irrigation canals/private wells, water hasn't gone up . Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: What is it with grain?!
Kaaren Robyn use ABC Products Yes, I still (mostly my horses) like the ABC free choice Icelandic Mineral Mix, with Redmond salts, Himalaylan salts ABC MOP all out free choice. Also always have the liquid Pro-Bi on hand for any emergencies that may arise, but mostly use it before after worming to help re-balance the intestinal flora. They hardly touch the Icey Mineral mix now except at the change of coat during really hot weather. I'm going to be adding ABC Plus a vite mineral pelletted mix that has ABC's wonderful Pro -bio blend in it though. Both my boys are 21 yo we will (hopefully soon) be taking a very long trip to Bend, Oregon when our house down here sells. Thought I would start boosting them now rather than right before the move. It's also been over the top hot this summer they have been gobbling the salt/mins.. the ABC Plus may be just what they need about now. You only give about 2 tbls. a day per Icey, so it's really economical. Last week I tallyed up my ABC 2007 costs it was only $86.00 for all three horses and one is my 26yo 15.2h Quarter Horse mare. The ACV added to the top dress products sounds like a great idea..that I forgot about. This is what I love about the list...thanks for the reminder. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Gypsy Vanner
Feathers farrier work with Vanners Brian , my client's Vanner had to have his feathers pulled up away from his feet secured by a band of Velcro One Step so the farrier could see angles etc. It was realy hard to keep his feathers clean in the mud though free of foxtails, ticks etc. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: What is it with grain?!
Link to ABC They have a web-site: a-b-c-plus.com or just Google Advanced Biological Concepts. The Canadian toll free is: (800)779-3959. The products are only available for purchase from ABC direct or through dealers. They will give you a list of dealers near you or sell direct to you. No membership or multi-level stuff.. you can buy direct. Shipping can be pricey on the heavier items like the 50 lb bags though. They may still have free shipping with larger purchases..ask. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Gypsy Vanner
Silver dapple, Gypsy Vanner Celeste Huston's ranch is near me I have seen this horse out in pasture. He sure is a head turner!! Apparently his color is quite rare sought after according to one of my clients who has a Vanner. He looked as wide as a table top 15h+ to boot. I'll bet there aren't too many saddles besides the Sensation maybe the Freeform that would let a rider be comfy on that back with a such a wide barrel. When I have gone by her place, I see a lot of the horses being longed driven, but haven't I seen one under saddle yet. Oe of my clients here in the Valley has a pinto Gypsy Vanner she imported sight unseen from Ireland. Even though Brian was 14.2h, he was s verrry wide that her 6'2, young, very fit male horse trainer had difficulty riding him for any length of time even in the Sensation. I tried to just sit on him once to see what they were experiencing and believe me, I wouldn't be trying that again soon. He was so wide flat from side to side that you could actually set a dinner for two on his back with room to spare...proably the widest horse I've ever fit for a saddle. I do have a friend who is a late 30ish yoga instructor who finds her Gypsy Vanner comfortable in a Torsion though, so maybe not many of the breed are as wide as the silver dapple or Brian. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:fell off the pony
Sylvia: Regarding some thoughts on the Sensation demo ... The English Trail model has the flaps set a smidge further forward the pommel is not so deep allowing the stirrups to be placed forward as well which eases the strain on the hips for some. You can special order the Hybrid with an English Trail flap at no extra charge, but be aware that some people find that the Hybrid feels slightly wider in the twist than the English models. Because of your special needs, you may feel the width more acutely need to try a few ideas to make it comfy. If your dealer does not have a Hybrid with english trail flap available to try, I have one in my stable of demos. A good percentage of my customers are princess the pea types or people with special needs, so I special order a Skito pad I designed with narrower foam inserts cut up under the leg with custom tapered edges for those sensitive rider's who need more hip relief comfort. It is the same price as any Skito pad, just my proprietary design. Also try shortening your stirrups a bit as this also provides some twist relief. Sensation also has a special bolster called a twist narrowing bolster that works for some. Remember to use an english hunt style breast plate for safety's sake better lateral stability. You may never need it, but it never hurts to take the extra prcaution. Feel frre to call me (805)688-2503 if you have any questions unique to your situation. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: bitless video
I first MUST preface this..THIS ISNT DIRECTED AT ANYTHING KAREN THOMAS SAID or SAYS SHE DOES!!...It's simply a sharing of what I've observed some of my horses doing over the years. sometimes has wild days When a cold weather front comes in with high winds, my normally pleasantly forward Selur becomes a character from Mr. Toad's Wild Ride. He's taken off with me on the long flat ridge we frequent several times over the years at a dead gallop dropping into flying pace if I try a half halt. Mind you, I'm not a big fan of flying pace. It always feels on the edge of being out of control I'm no adrenaline junkie. I've found over the years, it's best to just go with it because the footing is safe he always stops before the steep descent at the end of the 1/2 mile plateau, but none-the -less a bit more speed than I'd like. My usually, dead calm/seniors walk faster than us guy, Lalli becomes his version of wild...cantering for about 40 feet before drooping into a tolt where I don't have to keep the foot on the gas. Neither of my horses are ridden abusively nor can the equine chiro who comes every 4-6 weeks find anything but normal wear tear..and we ride in the TTEAM sidepull in a Sensation. It's just higher spirits, I think. When I had Tb's, I wouldn't even consider getting on them when it was windy/cold because more than once, I found my butt planted on the ground from simply high spirits. I've seen that weather changes can contribute to wilder days in the breeds of horses I've been around Iceland certainly does have more wind cold than we do...maybe the weather contibutes to the wildness there too??!!! The woman riding in the You Tube video wasn't what I'd consider a centered riding advertisment, but at least she's trying something new that's a start.I shudder to think what anyone on the list would say about my riding 14 years ago when I switched from show ring hunter/ jumper style riding straight out of the 70's to Iceys. ..or the saddles I chose in the beginning. Life's a learning curve I applaud anyone who's trying to make changes even if they don't get it right according to my beliefs . I don't know any of us who becomes perfect anything over night..it's a process. I particularly wouldn't like people publicly criticizing my efforts to try new things...would you?? Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Heat Stress
Heat stress strategies With the daytime highs last Thurs-Sat. hovering around 112 F, I had to pull out all the stops for my all over 21 yo's to be comfortable. The only saving grace was the non stop wind which helped the stall misters to disperse better. We have misters over the entrances to my run in stalls which were running 24/7. We installed them ourselves buying the standard hose hook up type from the hardware store for around $60.00. Instalation was very simple only uses about 10 gallons of water per day for 20x 12 12 x 12 entrances. Cools the temps down about 15F. I also put our more of the Himalayan Salts ABC free choice mins which they devoured plus ABC Pro-Bi. This way they could take what salts supplements they need to balance. This was the first time I put out their Hilton General Herb mix free choice thninking that because it contains mint for internal cooling many liver /kidney balancing herbs it may help too.. They all took what they needed then stopped much to my surprise. All got a complete cool down soaking before the highest daytime temp time a short Jin Shin treatment daily to help balance with the extremes. Later in the day they all got their legs esp the rear insides hosed off their chests. Also put the Cashell Cool Kerchiefs that I had frozen over their poll areas under their fly masks. Mine love watermelon frozen grapes , so they all got cooling treats as well with a bunch of fresh dandelion greens to help the liver kidneys clear heat. None of mine are overweight or IR or have a tendency to colic, but maybe the fruit wouldn't be such a good idea for some horses. All thankfully are none the worse for wear . I hope that we don't get another heat wave like that soon. Spoke with our Vet today he said he had never seen so many colics in the 20 years he had been in practice here as he did this past weekend. Any other suggestions to file away for future reference from you hot weather veterans out there would be much appreciated. Kaaren Solvang , Calif.
[IceHorses] Re: Tivar's sweet itch update
chemicals vs no I don't believe in either or /black white thinking. Sometimes it is necessary to use chemicals/ topicals worm when NEEDED, but if a non-chemical can do the trick then why not??? Many people also do fecals on their horses to determine what type of wormer is needed when rather than just worming on a schedule. This is done sequencially if the expense of having your Vet do them is too much, a microscope kit can be purchased via the internet to do yourself. Since I only have 3 horses, I go the Vet route..and I do use chemical wormers, but judiciously. I also titre for all my vaccines only give WHEN NEEDED, but then I have three horses. I have always felt that holistic care is not a substitute for allopathic medical care but instead should be thought of as complementary care . Many horses live in the South particularly NC w/o SE. In TCM it is seen that humans/horses that have susceptibility have imbalances within their systems that may need additional support. If caretakers choose to go the traditional route then that is their perogative. I simply provided an additional way (add meaning to do with) of perhaps dealing with the issue. Flax is a simple, cost effective way of adding EFA's to the domestic horse's diet which has many benefits not many risks. The only risk to doing fecal samples is perhaps added expense/time as is with vaccine titres. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Tivar's sweet itch update
supplements for sweetitch I've seen many horses humans recover quite nicely from skin issues/auto immune reactions by adding freshly ground flax seed to the daily diet along with some herbal/homeopathic support. Horses seem to do well with 4 oz 1-2 x's daily with humans at about 1-2 tbls. daily. Sometimes a deficiency of EFA's contribute to the whole SE label. The added benefits are beautiful gleaming , shiny coat more hormonal balance in mares/human females. Also helps with elimination problems like constipation/low bowel motility in humans. Flax starts to oxidize very quickly after grinding, so refrigerate only what you can use within a few days. The refrigerated oil from the HF store is also good, but some don't like the taste. The capsule form can be rancid, so avoid..the same with any of the horse products that say they can stabilize flax..not possible. A simple $12.95 coffee grinder from Wal Mart/K-mart is a handy, low cost way to grind the seeds. Hilton Herbs also has 2 herbal equine products for skin/auto-immune available through Chamisa Ridge. The horses with a crabbier, more irritable temperment that also have skin issues usually are much improved in disposition/skin issues after ta short course of an liver cleanse herbal formula called Milk Thistle Plus followed by Chamisa Ridge- Healthy Coat or Hilton -Top Coat . Wendals Herbs Stop Itch is another formula that is a blood purifier/kidney-liver cleanse of safe North American Herbs that stops skin itching heals coat issues from the inside out. In Traditional Chineses Medicine, skin issues/itching, susceptibility to insect bite reactions has it's basis in what they call Heat in the Blood stemming from an over taxed Liver with secondary Kidney involvement in the TCM sense. The crabbiness-irritibility (often labeled just the way they are) is often the effect of a chronically overloaded Liver along with sensitivity to sound touch esp near the flanks. I've personally seen many animals humans temperment improve dramitically once the system was balanced from the inside out with a combo. of acupuncture/acupressure with appropriate herbs or homeopathy. Many holistic veterninary practitioners think that overuse of wormers/ exposure to other chemicals topically or internally exacerbate the condition. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Shoes or Not
shoes or no shoes vs hoof wear My 26 yo Quarter Horse mare has not been ridden in 13 years due to injury does fine on our sandy dry lot keeping good angles not wearing too much, but one of my Iceys has very shelly feet despite supplements, holistic work etc needs shoes if I am to ride him for the 2 hours e/o day on our very rocky hard ground. My other Icey wears his feet down too much just in the sandy dry lot needs shoes as well. Tried about $1,000.oo worth of hoofboots... some custom coulnd't find any that didn't create joint issues due to improper traction fit or cause various rubs etc. We just do shoes now both are very happy..but we have an excellent farrier that does a super prep really knows how to shape metal/nail leave adequate expansion. In my equine bodywork practice out here, I've seen a lot of problems caused by improper natural barefoot trim with just as many from improper metal on the feet. I don't believe that shoes are the root of all evil, but instead the manner in which they are applied. Bad farrier work is bad farrier work whether there is metal involved or not. Just because someone has studied with Pete Ramey, Jaimie Jackson or in the other camp Gene Ovnicek or Tony Gonzales does not mean they have an eye or talent..it just means they have paid for seminars. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Loose Dogs
loose dogs This is why I carry a long dressage whip with a flapper on the end. If the dogs do not respond to my verbal commands to go home, I dismount draw a very clear boudary line between me dogs firmly repeating go home. If that doesn't work, I do a quick lightening strike on the ground in front of me accompanied by a very firm Go home. I have acclimated my guys to the defensive use of the whip at home first so as not to concern them. One of my Iceys hates dogs (or any small animal for that matter) that comes into his space will charge the offenders with me on him ... pinned ears snaking head. He's even picked one up thrown him (with me on board) when the dog didn't heed his warning. He's also the best drop kicker around. The local dogs know Lalli give us a wide birth now. I've never had to get off use the whip with him. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Statement by Diddi
Didi's statement I have taken quite a few clinics from Didi when he taught at Flying C , I found him to be way more fair with the horses than any of the other Icelanders (and most of the classical dressage trainers ) I have taken clinics from out here. He did not crank any nosebands to to max, in fact he loosened some, used the whip other than a directional aid because he is quite long legged, or yank any of the horses in the clinic up into an artificial frame. He did do a lot of circling, serpentines, lateral work before we even did any gait work warming up at a walk, then trot long low. My only issue with his method was that the exercises were done at faster speeds than I would like. He did not push any of the horses in the clinics I attended to the point of them getting anywhere near stressed because they were not used for the purpose of high level showing he recognized the difference in criteria. During one of the clinics, I couldn't physically get my long backed, low neck set, on the forhand guy Selur to trot through the corners of the track made the excuse that Selur just couldn't do it because of his build. Didi got on him after one pass around the ring using nothing but cues from his seat, got him to trot long low on the buckle proceeding to trot in a beautiful free extended trot on the long side of the track coming into graceful collection in the corners IN MY SIDEPULL with very little contact proceeded to effortlessly slide into flying pace (which BTW I never thought Selur could do) with equally effortless grace. His cues were so subtle that I could barely see them. I realized it was my lack of skill not Selur's conformation at play here. We've since worked on our trot balancewith me taking many lessons from the Balance ladies Peggy Cummings but I never have seen Selur since move like he did with Didi on board even with Peggy on board. Didi trains high level world class show horses for the world class show circuit demands, just like any other world class rider in any other discipline..dressage, hunter-jumpers, Grand Prix jumping to name a few. While I wouldn't handle my horses that way, nor do I wish to compete or condone the criteria they set up for competition, not ALL show riders trainers are horse abusers. If you choose to compete in that world to win, you need to compete with that criteria in mind with the fairest of handling for the horses involved. I have not seen Didi train a world class horse, only work with the Icelandic owners out here who are mainly pleasure riders who show here in Calif.. What I saw here was no where near abusive anyone who knows me , would tell you how sensitized I am to abuse or rough handling of any sort. In fact I left the ring during one clinic with another Icelander whose approach I did not agree with. I have seen a trend out here to go to the classical dressage world for training of Icelandics many of whom do not understand the gaits, the abilities or capabilities of Icelandics who try to force them into a frame like a warmblood or make them trot/canter in smaller circles than is possible for some. Mostly they crank their noses in for a head on the vertical stance which is not possible for many Icelandics punish them for breaking into gait in turns or on a circle. When Didi was here we had a conversation about this trend a few years back he shared that is what he did not care for from the foreigners. This is what he may have meant probably taken out of context. One of my guys, Lalli, who is now 21 yo., was started by Didi for Didi's then 3yo daughter Sara. A quieter , safer horse you could never ask for. He was trained for the carriage his body mind could handle for the purpose he was to be used for..a great family horse hand picked by Didi for my husband imported by Robyn Hood. When I brought Lalli to Didi's last clinic so Sarah could see him again, Didi took me aside told me Lalli was a bit pacey, getting on in years could not be expected to toelt as smoothly as Selur so not to have unrealistc expectations. He did say I could learn to ride his gaits a bit softer , then Lalli would become softer. Never did he ask Lalli for more than he could give. A crude, unaware trainer would not have even cared or said such a thing to me. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Home From Gov.Knowles
Raven landing on her shoulder I had a similar thing happen to me last August when Lalli put a foot in a hole went straight down with me. He was not hurt I was was shaken up with a sore shoulder for a few days. I know I've shared with you all about carrying a waist pouch with homeopathics rescue remedy, but I also cut myself some 80's vintage looking shoulder pads out of 1/2 Skito foam tuck them under my bra strap. While they won't help my ribs or collar bone, they do protect the point of the shoulder/top of the humerus which is where I usually hit. Tried the body protectors, but they are just too hot bulky for where we live most of the year. Considering I've only had 2 falls in 14 years back riding, both from the guys putting a foot in a whole while moving fast, I consider myself lucky. Heal quickly Raven. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: My Spiritual Journey with Horses
Can't seem to quiet my mind The Bach Flower essence White Chesnut is a good one to still the mind. It can be put into your water bottle, taken straight or sprayed on you like a mist. This can be layered on top of Rescue Remedy as well. Kaaren(Major Frosted Flake and makes a living at it!!)
[IceHorses] Re: He's baaack!!!
Teev's ears/looking happy I don't know how anyone/any animal could spend time with Janice without becoming a lot more light hearted. All of us like to feel appreciated/accepted for exactly who we are warts all Janice does that in spades. Not only does Janice provide excellent care for her animals, but her sunny disposition quircky sense of humor would un-grumpify even the most diehardt curmudgeon. Teev was very fortunate to have an R R stint with Janice as well as the initial care Karen indulged him with. Animals like humans have different personal preferences bond with individuals just as we do. Just like us, horses can dislike like a particular human just based on chemistry or personality or emotional needs . Teev's other people may not have done anything wrong, but may have just not been the right blend of personality styles/ match of emotional needs/ or shared interests for all to be happy. Just like being married to the wrong person, being matched with the wrong animal is grounds for divorce. I applaud the horse/animal keepers that find they can not provide what a particular animal needs finding a better match for them whatever the reason. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: OT-my diet
type of green beans used in soup recipe Mic: When I visited the UK back in 2000, I just used the local courgettes (sp) french green beans to make the soup. You don't have to use the fancy haricot verts. Lower starch green beans have the mineral/alkalinity profile we are looking for here. Either curly leaf parsley or the Italian flat leaf are fine. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: OT-my diet
Cilantro instead of parsley Cilantro has a different effect, so in this case parsley is better...but cilantro is a wonderful addition to your daily greens because it helps to clear heavy metals from the body..most notably mercury. In Japan they routinely give people a specially distilled cilantro tincture if they suspect mercury overload. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: OT-my diet
parsley hi BP diuretics You only use a small handful of the tops this batch makes about 12, 1 cup servings, so unless your MD has said to avoid parsley altogether, the amounts are small in each cup. You could leave it out if you are concerned or cut the amount to your comfort zone. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: colour question
Seasonal roaning My guy Selur is a quite unusual color in both of his cycles. Look on my web-site:kaarenjordan.com under Kaaren's Horses see what you think. What color do you think Selur is?? Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: colour question
Does he have a cream gene??? I don't know. His sire was Baldur 147 (grandsires Jarpur 112/Randver fra Fitjamyri)..dam Vindottir fra Fitjamyri(Grand dam s- Dixie 111/Pia Van Asgeirsbrekka). He was started trained by Christine Schwartz. I think this is why he is such an amazing horse. ...IMO, can't beat the TTEAM way of educating a horse. I saw Vindottir at the Icelandic Horse Farm when I came for a clinic in 1997 she is I guess a dark dun type buckskin. Selur is almost indentical in color to her. I think Baldur was a mealy mouth dark brown, but not sure as he passed on many years ago. All I know is that his temperment is what I call the perfect boyfriend. He's affectionate, considerate, kind, has a great sense of humor is very even disposition..always happy, never argues. I think I've seen him in a mildy bad mood once during the 10 years he's been with me. Selur's motto iswhat can I do for you as he's kissing my face or hands??? In fact I wish I could have him in human form for the perfect husband!! His gaits are smooth he's a great, brave trail horse. I just love his color in both seasons. People around the neighborhood thought I had gotten another horse the first few seasons because he changes color so radically. In winter he looks like a silver tipped bayish roan. If I body clip him Fall into Winter, he looks like a dappled rose grey. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Drought Affecting Horse Industry - my rant
Price of hay at $250.00 per ton I guess it's all relative... we are paying $23.00 a BALE for 100 lb bales of compressed timothy hay (11% protein/7% sugars/carbs). We will breath a sigh of major relief when our house here sells we move to Bend where grass hay is $250.00 per ton/$9.00 per bale. This is why I only keep as many horses as I know I can care for in the manner I prefer...calculating the horse keeping costs prices (farrier/hay/supplements/Vet/dentristry) in 20 years which would be close to my horses life span. As they age, they may not be able to eat hay may need special feeds which need to be factored in as well. My 3 horses are all 20+ yo now care costs will rise as they age. 14 years ago when I got back into horses my two Iceys were 8 ish, I would have loved to buy more Iceys as I truly love them, but realized that cost of horse keeping would keep rising the reality was I could only afford my 2 Iceys+ my old retired mare. I probably won't be able to afford another riding horse even if one of my boys becomes unridable until my mare passes over at 26yo , I swear she keeps getting younger looking/acting each year.! Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Fhoenix saddle pictures
Fhoenix wobble molding difficulty Yes, I found the same issues with the Fhoenix, that's why I stopped representing them. The foam takes impossibly long to mold esp in the cooler months of the year and if you live in the northern climes..forget it in the winter. Hard as a rock for horse rider. Most of my demo clients found it to be laterally unstable as well except on the higher whithered horses which is why I represented them in the first place. The panels are deep which is why they work better for the higher whithered horses..you need the extra clearance on them. Many of my clients who fortunately tried BEFORE they bought likened the seat on the Fhoenix to straddling a toilet seat..I can second that. The new ones have a little less of the straddling a toilet seat feeling , but are the same foam. If you live in the South or Southwest the molding will happen quicker because of the warmer temps, but the depth of the panels still sits you not as close contact as most riders like. The flap even in the GP is very straight with stirrup bars in a fixed position set VERY far back..tooo far back for all but the most diehard upper level dressage ridersIn other words a pain in the proverbial hip joint. They are beautifully made will last a very long time due to the quality of the leather. If anyone is thinking of buying one, please, please try BEFORE you buy for at least 10 days. Don't be tempted to buy off E-Bay unless you can negotiate a trial period. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Fhoenix saddle pictures
Fhoenix foam It's not really a memory foam, but some kind of black colored high tech temp sensitive aeronautics seat foam they use a lot in the UK. It is thick, so doesn't behave like the 1/2 blue Prolite foam Balance uses in their padding systems or Treefree uses in it's panels. It is some sort of proprietary foam. kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Found A Snake
snakes gophers..how do they catch them The balance of nature..well depends on the balance of nature. If we kill the snakes drive away the coyotes for example, then the ground squirrel , gopher general rodent populations grow out of control unchecked destroy the plants by undermining them ..then contribubuting to erosion of the soil leave less flowering plants for the bees who fertilize many trees plants. If we kill off too many gophers/burrowing creatures, then we have less aeration of the soil etc, etc. Human intervention by deciding which species is offensive/inconvenient to them impacts so many things we can't even conceive of . All that being said, I will try to relocate first then dispatch if all else fails any creature in the most humane way possible that threatens the safety of my family (which includes my animals). This is why I am vigilant about holes in the paddocks..I don't want a broken bone for me or my horses. As to how snakes hunt, they wait until they see the type of prey they can easily catch is the right size grab them, quickly dispatch them by first paralysing them (if they are lucky) by grabbing the prey behind the neck, coil around them to suffocate them then swallow them. The snake in your garage may have been lying in wait for a tasty little mouse or rat..or just seeking shade. I'm not for having a too close encounter with a poisonous snake, but the non-poisonous ones can do no harm to me or my animals because around here they are just too small to pose any threat. My rescue boas I've had for 17 years (both about 9'/30 lbs), could possibly go after a very small kitten or small chihuahua puppy if they escaped were very hungry. But they are very docile are physically incapable of swallowing anything larger than the above. They certainly would not/could not hurt any human unless the human was stupid enough to allow a snake of that size to coil around their neck the snake lost it's balance. Even then it would be a stabilizing protection (hanging on for dear life) against a fall rather than to try to intentially kill. If a snake falls breaks ribs, they can not ptoentially hunt eat, so they instinctually like horse do anything to avoid falling. Snakes will strike /bite in self defense if cornered perceive there is no way out, not try to strangle you!! They only do that to eat. Now a 60lb+ Burmese python or one of the other more agressive eater giant snakes, you might have to be more careful with small pets potentially a baby human. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Found A Snake
Found a snake on the property I'm thrilled when I see a gopher snake or king snake on or near our property. The gopher snakes keep the ground squirrels, gophers, rodents under natural population control the king snakes do all of the above + keep rattlers at bay. I just have to watch our whippets don't kill the snakelets because they chase anything that moves!!! Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: What's In Your Saddle
Feldenkraisresources.com Feldenkrais.org both have tape sets available can send you catalogues. Kaaren PS Just call me for the phone numbers if you have a problem reaching them.
[IceHorses] Re: Liablity... especially with children
I live in California where suing seems to be considered an alternate form of income .so when our great neighbors wanted to have their nieces/nephews come over for some supervised pony rides on th lawn, I decided to contact our insurance agent first. He told us that in Calif., the homeowners insurance would not cover medical bills if the person had their own medical insurance. He then went on to say that private medical insurance companies try to weasel out of as much as they can if it happens on someone else's property. So this is a grey area that usually gets resolved with much legal expense for both parties with the insurance companies both trying to weasel out of as much as they can, claiming neither has full responsibility. These days even a broken arm with surgery involved could cost $25K up, so I shudder to think of what spinal /neck injury could be. Even the calmest horse can inadvertantly spook/trip or knock someone down cause some serious damage esp. to a child. So even nice people with their own private medical coverage would be forced into suing us in order to cover their medical bills if their medical insurance company refused. It would be a hard choice of going into debt to cover medical bills or suing us. We explained to them the worst case scenario fortunately they understood declined to put either of us in the situation. It's so unfortunate that we even have to think of such things that we can't share the joy of riding with a child without fear of liability. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: What's In Your Saddle
crooked trees VS. treeless I've seen many treeless saddles pulled into assymetry by the rider as well causing impact to the structure of the horse. It usually happens quicker than with a treed saddle because of the lack of rigid structure. It is also impactful in a different way because of the less structure, but still impactful. The pro of the treeless is that a rider's faults will become evident a lot quicker in the form of saddles slipping off to one side, pressure from the rider's seat/seatbones causin pain or white hairs to name a few common complaints . Treeless saddles can also be made assymetrical, so check all saddles for symmetry regardless. Because of my backround in human biomechanics/holistic health care, I think it is important for all us riders to have some kind of body work or exercise program geared to addressing our own assymetries. It doesn't have to cost a chunk of change either. Feldenkrais has at hundreds of home Awareness Through Movement tape series that you can buy starting at about $29.95 that will help in changing your habitual posture/movement patterns without even stepping outside your door. There are also some great Pilates/Gyrotonics/ yoga tapes that help. A 3-4 time a year visit to a holistically oriented PT/personal trainer can give you a personalized exercise at home program without having to join a gym. A few chiropractic , cranial-sacral , cranio-osteopathy, or acupuncture visits a year can prevent injuries as well as healing current issues. Even a few Connected Riding/Centered Riding lessons a year or whomever you choose that promotes rider awareness can be sooo helpful. Riding interacting with horses for me is a such a pleasurable journey of personal spiritual growth . Being with my horses gentley brings me into experiencing the moment a gives me a connection with nature that I get from nowhere else. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Another lesson with Andi/Promise wrap
I just looove Linda Tellington-Jones The Ultimate Horse Book. It's become my bible too!! Robyn Hood (and Christine Schwartz) have helped me many times during our 14 year association over the phone to increase my understanding of my horses needs deepen my bonds with Lalli Selur. I only went to 1 TTEAM 5 day course in Palm Springs 14 years ago where I bought Lalli it totally changed the way I relate to horses and other beings in general. I've kept up via the TTEAM Newsletters, books, videos, privates with our local TTEAM practitioners when possible. There's so much to learn in the TTEAM Method, it could take a lifetime to master the sublties, just like Peggy Cummings Connected Riding. But hey,...it's about the journey, isn't it??? Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: No Nosebands
riding with no nosebands I've been busy, so haven't kept up with this entire thread...but I'll share my experience with nosebands bits. When I was an assitant to a european sport horse trainer over 30 years ago, she explained to me the origins of use of various types of nosebands. She primarily used an english style cavesson fit just enough so that if the rider happened to come off the horse stepped onto the reins, it would support the jaw opening to the point that the force could break the animals jaw. She rode primarily eggbutt/D/or full cheek bits with the english cavesson to prevent the bit from being pulled through the horse's mouth in an emergency preventing serious injury because with thosse types of bits, the lateral stability is good prventing an entire pull through if the animal steps into the reins. She also used a loosely fitted flash noseband to stabilize the bit for those horse's that preferred a loose ring bit, to both support the jaw opening too wide in emergencies AND to stabilize the bit laterally. What I have observed over the years, is that a well fitted noseband with an appropriately selected bit can prevent a whole host of issues esp. if the rider happens to come off/horse steps onto reins or gets reins caught on something more so on the trail. When I did ride with a bit 14 years ago on my first then green Icey, we were riding through a narrow gate that had a top latch. Lalli happened to turn his head just as the latch was closing caught the loose ring in the latch. Thankfully he pulled back instead of running through the narrow gate in his brief thrashing broke the headstall. If I had not used a leather headstall english style cavesson, he would have seriously injured his jaw. Our equine chiro who came later that day found only a few things in his neck attributed it to the cavesson stabilizing the jaw. Shortly after that I heard of several trail ridding accidents where the horse stepped into the reins after a rider fall horse had injuries from either being caught up in the reins or jaw injuries from the bit. Since my horses both do just fine being ridden in a halter, I switched to the TTEAM sidepull I still use never looked back. BTW, I only use all leather reins headstalls , so that if I do come off they get caught up, we have a better chance of something breaking before serious injury is incurred. What I have observed is that not all bits, bridles, nosebands, saddles treed are bad, it depends on how why you use them. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: No Nosebands
throatlatch browband vs none Good point Judy. Most Icelandics don't need a browband for headstall stability like the more mane challenged breeds and some because of the way their jowls built don't do well with a throatlatch. I guess that was how the single strap hadstall eveoled in Iceland. This does present the possibility of pulling off the headstall more easily by either rubbing or in emergencies. That's why, if you can get away with riding in a sidepull, the TTEAM version has a really well placed jowl latch for better stability. There are many other sidepulls that have a similar jowl latch /or well placed throat latchs. I'm sure for safety's sake, you could have any tack repair person add a jowl strap for stability for not too much money to any headstall by splitting it to add a ring then the jowl strap. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Contoured Girths, slipping saddle UPDATE
To Zoe Emmy Re: the front shims Robyn used to be able to procure some Balance 1/4 Prolite shims which worked really well for me many of my customers. The Balance International Ladies in the UK MAY sell the shims to you (called 1/4 JB shims) if you tell them you have an Icelandic a Sensation that you heard of this through Kaaren Jordan. They are pricey (about $60.00 US now) can be used many ways..either placed vertically over the top of your existing pad or cut out of their cover put into your Skito Pad (my rec.) either horizontally for larger support area or vertically cut to fit inside the pad. Just like the girth billeting, you have to experiment. In my experience, the Skito 1/2 shims are too bulky. Some people have used 1/4 firm felt beveled at the rear bottom edges AND secured ionto the Skito foam with double stick carpet tape or front lift foam shims from Dana @ Nickers, but you need to know the shape thickness you need if you order from Dana. My rec. with any shim is to affix with double stick carpet tape onto bottom layer of foam IN THE PAD COVER to ensure NO shim drift. I routinely trouble shoot with distance clients @$40.00 per hour (pro-rated) talking the client through what they would need, who to order it through if I can't do it, how to experiment/interpret results. Have had a 90% sucess rate with clients all over the world doing this for all different types of saddles both treed treeless over the past 10 years. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Contoured Girths, slipping saddle
Forward girth lines I have Iceys, one of whom has a forward girth line. The Torsion Luna girth did not make one bit of difference Lalli hated it. It made my Sensation very laterally unstable as well. Tried the very $$$ County crescent girth with the same results. Sometimes using the self centering billets in a different way on the Sensation girth can help. You can try tightening the rear billet one-2holes more then the front billet and if that doesn't make a difference, try the reverse. I do the former with my guy it allows the saddle to stay where it needs to on him. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Contoured Girths, slipping saddle
Longriders Gear Mohair Girth This is a much better option that the Torsion Luna girth. Some horses do really well with it. Since the forward girth groove person already has a Sensation girth, no harm in playing with the billets as described in my last post. If it works, she doesn't have to buy a new girth..if it doesn't she's no worse off than beofre. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Contoured Girths, slipping saddle
Robyn's suggestion of 1/4 front shim I use a 1/4 Prolite shim on both my horses placed a bit differently for each it makes HUGE difference. Maybe Robyn has a spare Balance shim for sale??? Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: saddle pad problem
pad design changed for the Skito Sensation I specially designed a Skito Pad for the Sensation that I order for all my customers. It has an anotomical topline contour over the entire length of the pad as well as velcro closure in the rear so there is no chance of pad pull/pad pressure over the whithers or mane. I have sold about 200 of this design over the past 4 years with no complaints so far from anyone in any breed. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:saddle pad problem
Janice's pad issues Hard to tell what's happening w/o being there. What I do know in general is that foam/shims/pad cover can wear out over time.In hot, humid climes foam can need to be replaced e/o year if you ride a lot are heavier than 150lbs. I really like the Skito Dryback pads (100% wool bottom) with an additional Sensation nomad liner underneath to keep both the pad clean the horse drier in the hotter, more humid areas AND give extra support for the heavier rider. Downside is that some horses are sensitive to the synthetic materialsbut since the liner is not attached just goes in between the horse pad, you could just re-sell it if it doesn't work out. You could also start by replacing the foam shims in the Medi-Cheval, but the cost may not be worth it as the Medi Cheval covers tend to fall apart sooner than the Skito. That's why I don't sell them. I already gave Janice costs on the above. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Horse vacuums
Does anyone use the Metro-Vac I've been happily using this brand for about 4 years with very happy ponies. It helps in the winter to keep debris from being trapped in between the undercoat the skin , in the shed seasons to pull the loose coat out after I have curried (grooma'd), the rest of the year to keep the dust/dirt away from their skin. I use this as a finishing tool..part of grooming..not as the sole grooming tool. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Another Success Story
Understanding advice from Robyn Hood Way to go Susan Whisper. I too have found over the 14 years I have had Iceys in the family, that Robyn's advice/the TTEAM approach has proven invaluable. It combines easy to use body work, with fun ground work, a construct to build a bridge of communication with my horses that is an enitrely new language. I use these concepts in my holistic healing practice for all animals not just horses have found them to be universally accepted applicable. Through my understanding of the TTEAM concepts my relationships with humans has improved as well I have grown as a person. Many thanks to Linda Robyn for so patiently making this wonderful , user animal friendly approach to better relationships avaiable to us all. You don't even have to go to in person workshops or spend a lot of $$. Just a book perhaps the TTEAM newsletter is all many of my clients needed to get started. Best of luck Lorraine. Don't give up on Dagur yet!! Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Hay Shortage
our pasture is filled with gopher holes We used to have a terrible problem with both gophers ground squirrels in our paddocks lawn. First we tried the trapping re-location..a miserable failure.. then we tried those vibration emitting things you put in the ground (worthless!!). Really don't like the thought of painfully killing animals because we have taken away the natural controls by our encroachment on their territory...but...when it comes to my horses saftey. I then thought natural predator control might be good, so I caught a few gopher snakes put them down our holes, but they didn't seem to work well either. We even put dog pop down the holes (apparently an old wives tale) to no avail. Then in desparation we tried the supher gas flares because at least they die quickly other animals don't get poisoned by it..no residue... but you have to use about 2 dozen for an acres area multiple days in a row for multiple weeks. Finally my husband bought a rubber adaptor for our cars tail pipe that allows you to attach any garden hose to. You drive your vehicle out into the area , put the hose down a hole, seal that one with dirt, turn the car on to idle viola!! after 1 hour of gassing you have as painlessly as possible put the entire population to sleep..permanently. Our area is only about an acre, so on larger properties you may need to do this at a few spots simultaneously. We got our at ACE Hardware , but most hardware stores carry them. We did this two years in a row then didn't have any invaders for 3 years. We had to do it again this year. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:ABC Mineral Questions
gobbling down the minerals like candy Susan: I have used the ABC Free Choice system (for us Icelandic Mineral mix Redmond Salts) for about 14 years now at Robyn Hood's suggestion when I bought Lalli from her. Yes, in the beginning when the horses' needs for the minerals are greater, they will consume more. When their systems become less deficient, they will balance out their consumption. Mine only consume the Icelandic Mineral mixRedmond Salt at the change of coat (fall spring) or during times of stress like extreme heat. I always have out free choice the MOP mix just in case they get into something to protect the liver kidneys/ balance the intestinal flora in addition to the latter. My ancient Quarter Horse mare barely touches anything except the Himalayan salt chunk I have out. I go through 1 25 lb. bag of each now for the 3 horses a year an 8 lb bag of MOP annually. The only other supplement I use is the Hilton General Herb freeze dry mix for horse who don't have acces to pasture year round Circulate by Hilton for the ancient mare's arthritis. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: ABC Mineral Questions
What is MOP Look on my web-site:kaarenjordan.com under the Holistic Horse Care Corner for a description of all the products I use rec. to my clients. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Hay Shortage
Had to tack $20.00 onto our hay bill Out here in Calif., our timothy hay went up in price in TWO MONTHS $4.00 per 80lb compresed bale to $24.00(yes, TWENTY FOUR DOLLARS!!!) per bale. Oat hay is now $19.95 for a standard bale. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Sensation Stirrup Hanger
The endurance set up eliminates the pressure from the stirrup attachment at the top which is triangulated through the internal rigging via the hard use buckle with hard use. Putting it at the bottom eliminates any top pressure. The downside is that it restricts leg swing/movement..which can be a good thing with some riders. It steadies up the leg keeps it in a centered position. If you can get used to the endurance stirrup attachment, it is the best for any kind of distance riding according to Dana. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Sensation Stirrup Hanger
Janice: The pad I would rec.for your weight climate would be the Skito Dryback/100% wool bottom/with 3/4 FIRM foam with 1/4 felt liners. I don't think you need new internal panels yet as your saddle is about 1 year old. Some people in your climate do really well with the Sensation Nomad liner (Dixie Midnight material shaped for the Sensation)for better heat resolution for keeping the pad clean in the hotter, more humid climes, but some horses are sensitive to the Dixie Midnoght material you don't know until you try it. Maybe someone you know has a DM liner to try first under the new Skito Pad??? This would make your padding system very close to the Burr Pad which is no longer available. Dryback pad $225.00 Felt liners $ 20.00 Sensation Nomad liner $99.00CDN +$20.00 SH SH $20.00 Total retail price $265.00 (please call me about the price) Please call me about what I mentioned in an earlier e-mail as I may have hit the Group Send button want what I mentioned OFF LIST. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Sensation Stirrup Hanger
The Burr Pad is no longer available because Dana is too busy to make each one as she did before the materials cost skyrocketed . What Dana rec. now to duplicate the Burr is a Skito Sensation Dryback pad with 100% wool bottom/3/4 firm Equalizer foam ($225.00 +SH USF), with Sensation 1/4 hospital grade felt liners ($45.00CDN + SH). For those who want more grip on the bottom, Sensation makes a Nomad (Dixie Midnight) liner ($99.00 CDN +SH) shaped for the Sensation to place in between the horse the Skito pad. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Custom Saddle Maker Will Not Sell Me a Saddle--This is good cust
saddle sitting up like a pill box hat on the horses back I use that same image in my saddle fit lectures of what NOT to do . I call it sitting up like a party hat and they all laugh, but never forget it. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Sensation Stirrup Hanger
Sensation stirrup hangers be CONTRIBUTING FACTORS to white hairs in endurance Dana rec. that riders who do endurance use ONLY hard use OR preferably the endurance leathers which attach to the base of the flap with no velcro stirrup attachment under the seat. ..much better for reduction of potential pressure from the stirrup attachment. A lot depends on your weight . Heavier riders need BOTH the maximum padding the endurance leathers also as per Dana. The maximum padding according to Dana is either the Burr Pad or a Skito Dryback with 3/4 FIRM Equalizer foam with additional 1/4 felt liners to start. Panels in the interior of the saddle also need to be checked replaced more often because of the intense use as well. If the internal black felt removeable panels become compressed at the edges, un equally worn, become overly floppy, or worn in certain places..they need to be replaced at $65.00 CDN per set easily done in minutes by the rider. Some riders (as per Dana) also need an addtitional 100% sheepskin pad placed under the BURR or beefed up Skito to help with friction/heat build up. White hairs need to be assessed on a case by case basis as there are many, many factors involved. Heat retention, friction, pressure all can be contributing factors as well as how the rider (and how much) stands in the stirrups how balanced the rider rides in general AND over the course of the ride. Many people as well as horses fatique carry themselves differently over the course of endurance rides, which can have negative impact to both. Most of my clients who do CTR/Endurance have personalized exercise nutrition programs which they do on a daily basis to stay fit for the intense atheletic activity they do as well as staying at a good weight for both their sake the sake of the horse. It goes without saying that the horses need a training/nutrition program too , because they are indeed extreme atheletes should be treated as such with ongoing bodywork , assessment of hoof care needs, dental, appropriate supplementation (all the above as per Dana as well). BTW, it's a good idea for all Sensation owners to check the internal black felt panels for wear esp. those who ride a lot. Sorry, but there is no pat answer for this issue and in some situations if the Sensation isn't working , then other options need to be explored. No one brand of saddle works for all riders in all situations. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Sensation Stirrup Hanger
picture of the endurance stirrup hanger Look on my web-site:kaarenjordan.com. I think it's under Sensation pictures or accessories. My husband just revamped my siteso you may have to hunt around a bit. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Custom Saddle Maker Will Not Sell Me a Saddle--This is good cust
the framework of the tree sits on the ribcage not the L.D. muscles Sometime if the gullet(spine channel) is too wide or if the pitch width of the panels is too broad you will have the inside edge of the panels sitting out too far to the outside of the longissimus muscle group. If the panel itself isn't the correct pitch or width you can have it cantilevering off the edge of the horses back like a porch over a cliff which leaves only a very small line of pressure mostly next to the spine compromising lateral stability. Andy Foster from Lauriche told me that Icelandics are very difficult to fit not only because of their width in the whither area, but because the spacing needed between the panels width of the panels needed to place the panels on the correct muscles is different than what a correctly shaped wide traditional warmblood/draft tree fork would be. Couple that withthe relatively short saddling area available with normal to larger adult riders on board. According to him, you have quite a connundrum. Warmblood or draft trees have much wider spine channels than would work for an Icey because the actual spine on these larger breeds is broader , the distance between the longissimus is wider the actual muscle itself is wider. He thought of Iceys as either scaled down drafts or warmbloodsdepending on their shape. Please do not interpret the above comments to mean Iceys need a narrow gullet or panels. What they do need is a correctly shaped tree fork of correct width for the individual tree rails that will allow for correct spacing of the gullet to put the panels in the correct place on the longissimus muscle group be short enough to allow the end of the panels to not exend far behind the last rib. Sometimes you can bevel up the rear of the panels through flocking to clear this area (esp in down hill ridng) even though the cantle is vey close. In short they need a specially designed tree. If anyone knows of such a creature, I would love to know so I can refer them Icey clients that want/need trees. I personally think that some models of the RP come closet to this because they can change the spacing between the panels, the pitch of the panels if memory serves me have different widths of panels. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Bareback - saddle fit
Balance International/Carol Brett/bareback I can attest to what Karen says about Carol Brett. We tried the Balance saddles in 2003 for about 1 year they didn't work for us as my horses backs widened, but I still take lessons in person from Carol 3-4 x's a year when she comes to our area. I have learned so much about saddle fit/equine biomechanics/ positively effecting the horse's movement using my body on the horse in a biomechanically correct way. If she comes anywhere near you, go for lessons or just to audit. She teaches an awesome 1 day Feldenkrais based off horse class for riders upon request similar to what TTEAM taught years ago. I learn more each time I take this class on how to be a better balanced rider how micro movements conscious or unconsious effect us all. In my saddle fit consulting business I refer several clients a year to Balance that require treed saddles for their higher whithered horses or if they jump a lot as wellas to RP depending on need/budget. BTW, both Balance RP has a used re-home program where you can pick up a saddle for a lot less than new. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Bareback - saddle fit
Master saddle fitters are hard to come by Have you tried to contact Sarah Fisher (TTEAM) in the UK or Jill Sheppard (Devon , I think) from Heather Moffitt's group?? I don't rec. Heather's saddles for your situation, but Jill has a very good eye may be able to help you find a fitter. Andy Foster from Lauriche (Walsall) may also be able to rec. someone in your area. Also Gavin Scofield ,DO, in Farforest, Worchestshire would be a great bet..probably the best. Tell Carol his secretary I rec. you call. We have been clients of Gavin's since 2003. He is one of the top equine biomechanics experts in the UK as well as being a Cranial Osteopath of amazing talent training. Kaaren Jordan
[IceHorses] Re: Bareback
paraphrased...what bareback pads have any of you liked?? Again , I've been very busy, so only caught portions of this thread... I've been riding my very difficult to fit Icelandic, Selur, in a homemade bareback pad that has a topline contour built into it with actual dressage billets hung into multi point rigging on top of a 3/4 firm foam Skito inter pad on top of a Balance 100% wool pad for most of the 13 years I've had him. We ride mostly trail, mostly 2hours with snack breaks both of us are very comfy AND equine chiro who comes every 6-8 weeks over the same 13 years has found not issues yet...but I am only 95 lbs . I think it is good for balance I personally really like the close connection I feel in a bareback pad. I also choose to keep searching for another option that is more saddle like for us both so we can alternate. I have tried just about everything on the market so here are my top BB pads reviews: The Little Joe: I ordered a 22 long one because standard is 26-27 too long for my guys. It has dressage billets that are nicely placed behind the base of the whithers, but not so far that it alters where the natural girth line would lie on most Iceys. Made of good quality suede (lots of color choices for those who like to dress it up) with ample padding in the pad. The LJ also has a slight topline contour longer flaps than most BB pads which both my guys just loved. The downside..4-6 week wait because each is made to order they do look homemade, but are well-made despite the homemade look to the stitching. I still would ride it over a Skito pad if you already have a Sensation, the Skito-Sensation pad fits perfectly under it. Elizabeth is terrific to work with they unconditionally guarantee each pad will fully refund your money even after you have ridden in it if you are not satisfied. A good value for the money. The Phantom: Lisa @ Moss Rock is one of my favorite dealers bar none. A total pleasure to do business with very knowledgeable. The pad itself has support metal rails the length of the underside to change the rigging placement the stirrup placement if you decide to use stirrups. However the rails are not flared towards the rear, so on the very wide barreled/wide backed horses it has the potential to dig in on the sides at the rear. It was fine on my narrower guy, but my wider guy Lalli strongly objected to it the second time I put it on even though it was over a 3/4 firm foam Skito Pad. It is very nicely made, but I liked the LJ my homemade one better on my horses. The Best Friend: If you change out the girth to dressage billets placed a little further back, It's a nice inexpensive option over a Skito Sensation pad for short romps. It has a slight topline contour as well, but comes in limited colors. But at $89.00 + about another $30.00 for the billet change over..not bad. I'm going to be trying the BF Atlanta (I consider BF bareback pads) soon which is a knock off of the Torsion Extra Light only with supposedly rider friendly contoured panels with a spine channel. They also have a new soft pommel option which just pops into the swell once you have removed the fiberglass pommel. You can also order it in the butter soft calfskin the London comes in once they piece together a minimum orderbut we shall see!! I'll keep you posted. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Rhythm beads
should I get my mare an i-pod or Rhythm Beads?? My boys love the Rhythm Beads seem to really get into making their own rhythms. I make some that clip into the mane so that if I get annoyed by the sound on a long ride I can just pocket them for a while. As Vicka said, they are great for warning wildlife/hunters/walkers of your approach. I also ride with a custom Snugpax waist pouch that has a compartment for my first aid homeopathics as well as one that can hold a small cassette play with built in speakers. Sometimes we ride to the sounds of Loreena McKennitt or other Celtic sounds. They really get into the music with lots of energy. I believe Dressage Extensions catalogue has a product called Kur Tuneswhich is in essence a portable stereo whose speakers go into any small saddle bag with a smaller unit around your waist for the actual player. Mine works fine for much less $$$. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Keeping the Back Clean
Judy: You always bring up such good points!!! I've seen so many saddling issues stem from putting dirty pads on a horse, not removing the excess shed causing friction irritation, having a dirty saddling area/girth area esp during the winter months in the muddy or sandy areas. Since Icelandics have a thicker undercoat than most breeds, debris can become trapped between the layers creating a sand paper effect even if the top layer looks clean to the eye. I bought a Metro Vac a few years back this has really helped a lot as well as being an enormous time saver. The horses love it too!! I still curry with a Grooma use a shedding blade brushes, but always finish with the vacuum. Instead of sweeping the grooming area, I just vacuum. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: west coast storms
Hurricane weather in Calif I'm in Santa Ynez, which is near Santa Barbara, Calif, thankfull other than a few hours of pretty high windgusts late Sat., we only got 3/4 of rain overnight according to my rain gauge. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Cruppers
When I used to show on the hunter-jumper circiut I witnessed some pretty nasty accidents resulting from that form of dismount..the worst of them with someone catching their heel in the reins comming off directly on her neck breaking it.There is not much of a way to abort left off from this position if say the horse spooks or you just get off balance. Horses generally do not like getting clunked in the side of the head or neck. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Cruppers
Sensation makes an ultra soft crupper for $30.00 CDN. for those of you that need one. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Tree Free
What Lori's Tack carries is different from the true Treefree brand from the UK. I refer quite a few customers whose horses do not fit the Sensation to Abby Peterson (saddlingsolutions.com) for the Dartmoor model of the Treefree. The design is similar to a BF/Torsion but the saddle has different widths of pommel pieces has shaped/beveled Prolite panels built into the saddle with a nice spine channel for both horse rider comfort. The leather is beautiful with much less bulk under the leg than either Torsion or BF, but the downsides are that it is wider for the rider than the Sensation, does not look like an english saddle runs about $1250.00 for just the saddle. For higher whithered/A frame horses right now there aren't too many choices. The Treefree has worked out well for many of these type horses allowing them to go treeless. If you talk to Abby, say hello from me. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: american gaited horse
I believe Elizabeth Haug Neils West are cousins ...and when I hung out at Viking Saga in the late 90's, she did loan Neils a really lovely little stallion Randver for about 6 months. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Weather
It was beautiful yesterday here as well..today not so much!!! It is very grey with showers on/off all day. We're fortunate this storm only brought about 3/4 from last night to now..very light winds.This brings our rain totals for the last 4 weeks to 13. A few days ago they had to release water from the Cachuma Reservoir to prevent overflow. The ponies aren't very happy with the rain, peeking their long faces out of the runs ins occasionally to see if I'm coming down to visit. On days like this I feed them little meals more frequently so they aren't so bored not being able to go out on the lawn to graze. Hope your area stays safe from flooding/mudslides Judy!! Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Solid Ice
Oh, Raven I am so sorry. Heal Quickly!! Since we are going to be moving to Bend Oregon which does get about 12 of snow I imagine some ice...can any of you ice veterans recommend some tactics to keep both me the horses safe from ice falls maybe some tips for riding apparel/just plain cold weather gear. I intend to pull shoes in the late fall, but that's about all I have so far for horse safety from the sounds of it barefoot doesn't really ensure ice safety on it's own.. maybe there is some kind of ground medium that you all have had success with??? I have lived in California all my life so have no experience with this. I could waste a lot of money trying things to see what works...better to ask the experts!!! At 57yo with slight build I really don't want to test my bone density with a fall on ice. So far I have Yak Trax to pull on over my boots, kid's sized Body Armour for under Wind Pro riding tights tops, a Polarfleece ear band. I am so tiny (5'2/95lbs) that it is very difficult finding coths to fit as my legs are too long for most kids sizes Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: FALLSand MUD MIC
Sorry to tag on, but power has been spotty all day...RAIN, RAIN GO AWAY...PLEASE We had 3.5 of rain from 7pm Sat to 7am Sunday with winds so high my breezway stall mats blew into the yard. Still raining with another 1.5 from 7am -now. This brings our rain totals to about 12 since Jan.8I know we needed some rain, but NOT all at once!! So far our property is ok due to the washed concrete sand/french drains in the horse area, but I could hear chain saws going intermittently all afternoon in our neighborhood from the dwoned trees. Ponies staying dry in their cozy run ins..but it's going to be a very long time until we can go out on the trails around here especially since we are expecting more rain Wed Fri. The colder , dryer weather of Bend Oregon is starting to not look so bad. We've lived here 14 years it seems that every 3-4 years we get a real doozy of a rain year with high winds. Anyone hear from Lynn Kinsky?? Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Free PP Horses
I spoke with Tom Bev today they placed all their horses to one home already. Very nice people who did their best to ensure a wonderful future for their beloved equine companions. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: ice vs. concrete or asphalt
I have to travel over about 1/4 mile of asphalt over about 1 block of sidewalk(actually a double laned concrete bike path) to get to trails. My preference is to lead them in hand over these surfaces. It gives me the chance to tone my rear end gives some weight bearing to my joints as well that riding doesn't really provide. I actually welcome this as sort of a warm up /cool down for all of us will probably do the same even when we move to Bend have more dirt roads to trail access. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: No Horses on Ice
I can attest that when I tried the BF thing out here in Calif. we had a bit of Calif Ice in a few places to get to our trails. I too had heard that horses don't slip as much BF as they do shod. I always get off walk through any questionable conditions first BEFORE I ride my horses through they still slipped around on the icey patches in hand too much for my comfort levels, so we just didn't go off the property until that condition cleared. If I know we have had freeze temps with miosture, I know there may be unavoidable icey spots...so we just stay at home do Jin Shin with some TTEAM that day. Some would say I am waaay over the top too careful with my boys, but I need to stay within my comfort levels when it comes to their safety. Since we are thinking of moving to Bend Oregon, I wonder what people up there do when there is snow (albeit 8-10 annually)??? Anyone live there who wants to weigh in?? The few locals I have spoken too just don't ride when it gets under 35F. May not be a bad idea to give them a few months a year just turned out. I guess I'll have to see if they get bored. They are used to daily outings year round down here stand at the gate trying to open it on their rain days off. Being an equine body worker, I have seen the impact on horses bodies that have had traction studs on for any length of time both in boots in shoes. I don't want to have that kind of impact on my guys esp. since they are 21 this year still sound. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: gonna kill a dog
As much as I love animals, I would do anything I could to prevent my animals from being injured. About 10 years ago, one of our neighbors had 3 Rottweillers that were lovely teddy bear types. They were so trusted by the family that the dogs were left unsupervised to play with their 4 childrn ages 3-10. One night at about 3 am we were awakend to the sound of horses screaming thundering hooves. After brief inspection of ours, we figured it was coming from another neighbors with 2 very old mare s called the Sheriff. The mares were housed in a 100' x 50' drylot with very safe 5 foot post/board/bumper board buried in the ground covered with horse wire. Apparently the Rotts had scaled the no climb fence had brought one of the mares down. The other was just frantic. It took the Sheriff over 45 min to come by that time the dogs had been subdued by the owners the Vet called to suture the mares. These dogs were so intent on their prey that being hosed down with a pressure hose didn't deter them. The dogs owners finally had to hit them with shovels to prevent the mare from being seriously hurt. All animals recovered fortunately the dogs owners built special chain link kennels with lids for containment when they were not supervised. The only thing they could figure was that pack mentality eventually got the best of them when the aged mares layed down at night perhaps rolled looking like a dying or injured creature. It was one of the most awful things I have ever heard seemed to go on forever. As much as I love trust my 2 very gentle face licking Whippets, I have seen the two literally rip a squirrel in two before I could prevent it. They are so into instinct that these normally obedient dogs don't even know I'm there. One of them accidently nicked me when I was trying to get them off a rabbit before it was too late. All of these incidents happened on our totally fenced one 1/2 acre property when hapless wild animals somehow tunnelled in under the bumper board or in the case of the squirrels over the 5' fence. After seeing this, I can imagine what could happen with larger dogs when instinct takes over. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Kaaren - whippets
We love ours. They are both 9 this coming year...so sweet very gentle. Since I also see Jin Shin/nutrition clients at home, they are one of the least allergenic breeds besides poodles Chinese Crested. Before that we had a Greyhound track rescue for 7 years. Lexi was bar none the most amazing dog I have ever had in the family. Despite all he endured on the track, he was outgoing, loving kind to all humans animals(after some TTEAM work around other small animals in the beginning). . He would chase squirrels rabbits for the sport, but never touched them once he cornered them. He would just wag his tail, turn walk away from the cornered animal. Everyone who met him called him Saint Lex as he had such a prescence about him. We miss him a lot. I was so surprised that these two Whippets could be such avid predators who haven't so far responded to the TTEAM that worked so well with Lexi. I expected more greyhound like behavior in the Whippets, but this is not so with ours. Much more active, much more in need of attention than the Greyhounds I have been around. We love them for who they are though. Contact me off list anytime you want to swap stories as the list is probably bored with this thread already!! Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: comfortable boots
Ariat makes a really comfy wider toe box boot called the Iceberg (I think). It's lined with Thinsulate waterproof with a good non-slip tread for ice /mud. It's on sale in Dover Catalogue for $79.95. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: teev saddlefit
Good point, I always check/have my sidewalker check as far back as they can get their hand/arm to go, which is hopefully mid-forearm. All of this is best done with a similar weight rider to who is mostly going to be riding in the saddle with the padding that you are going to be using. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Rain
Out here in my end of the Santa Ynez Valley in Calif., our rain guage showed 3.5 for this storms total from Friday am-Sat pm. Other than a lot of leaves all over the lawn , we seem to be OK. I have 2 1/2 washed concrete sand in the entire 3/4 acre drylot area french drains, so the horses did fine. In fact I could ride on it today if it wasn't their living space...I don't think it's fair to ask them to work where they live!! They also have a 12' x12' run -in stall , another 24' x12' run-in a top higher ground pasture shelter that is 24' x18' ..all with stall mats redwood rims to prevent sand form being tracked into the feed areas. Of course my 26 yo Quarter horse mare (rain blanketed ) Lalli, my big Icey, stayed out in the rain most of the time looking quite happy, manes being lashed by the 35 mph winds. Selur, my other Icey hates any kind of water, so he manned the shelter the entire time. In the early days, I used to try to entice them under the shelters with small bits of hay in their feeders, but soon gave this up as the minute the finished, they would go stand out in the rain. Almost to the day in 1998, we had a much worse storm literally blow through here with about 6 of rain overnight up to 75 mph winds. Most of the damage took place between midnight 3am. I could hear trees crashing all around us..I was so afraid for the horse's safety. All our trees blew down taking about 40' of perimeter fence with it, muched my galvanized steel wash rack, brought a large tree down near my old mare's side that clunked her in the head leaving her partially blind. It was so amazing that the tree hit her as it was about 40' from where her stall is. It fell on a diagonal the top must have ju clunked her before she could get out of the way. Luckily she is very sensible didn't try to leave through the downed fence. She just waited by the tree until it was light enough for us to come help her. After that, we cut down all the trees near our property...no morepark like setting as the real estate agents like to say, but a very safe property none-the-less. Lynn Kinsky, how did you do?? Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re:Weather/California?
Here in my part of Santa Ynez, we hardly had but a spritz last night, but the wind is now picking up (8am Fri) we're expecting quite a bit of rain with high winds through Sathow much is anyone's guess. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: i aint believin it
I too love the real Clementines from Spain just about as much as the Babcock white peaches in the late summer. We're battening down the hatches as I write for 3 consecutive rain systems that will pass through starting tonight dump from 4-8 of rain in the next four days with winds up to 40mph. I was praying for some rainnot just all at one time. Luckily my husband was off today to sandbag the areas that have washed out in past in the horse areas. We have a new roof on house barn so we should all be ok. All of of big trees on our property came down on our fences in the 1998 El Nino event, so we're safe in that dept. as well. I'll just be seeing two very unhappy faces out back as my Iceys both HATE the rain. Sometimes they look at the sky then at me during a storm as if to say Can't you make it stop??? Maybe they think we humans are all powerful because we make food appear magically!!! Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: saddles
Didn't Pam Hansen order a Dave Genadek's saddle a while back??? Does anyone know how she likes it??? Did I miss the posts from her about this??? I have sent several clients to Dave who the Sensation did not work for, but no Icelandics as yet. His saddles have worked well for them, but they were horses with much longer backs non-gaited. Would love to know how it is working out for an Icey. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: saddles
I totally agree with Robyn about her saddle fit observations. After taking several clinics with the Balance ladies lessons ongoing from Carol Brett when she's in our neck of the woods, I choose to use recommend a padding system that allows for the inevitable muscle engorgement that occurs during work can easily be changed as the horses back changes. This means as Robyn pointed out, that if you use a treed saddle that the tree fork comfortably allow for this type of padding system. I've seen horses that went fine according to their riders, go from fine to moving better than they could have imagined with far less need for body work/chiropractic with just that change alone. Of course, feet/dental rider are all variables that fall into the equation as well should not be minimized. I really like the Balance Padding systems take their foam out of the pad cover cut to fit in an All-In -One Skito pad cover for both my Sensation saddles. I love the Balance 1/4 JB take that out of the cover , shape it use it as a center shim or front lift shim. You can also buy the Prolite 1/2 foam 1/2 pads from the UK do the same, but they do not offer the 1/4 Prolite for shimming. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Arab Icelandic Cross
I haven't followed this thread completly,but here's what I've observed with some of the crosses I've seen/been called out to do Jin Shin on out here. A client of mine that does a show circuit hunters bought a gorgeous swan necked 3yo Trakenher/TB cross for somewhere close to $75,000.00 . He was started slowly for that venue at age 3(a bad idea in my book none-the-less) by age four started to have some serious problems with balance stiffness to one side. When I went out to see him on the first visit, my initial intuition was that his neck was too long fine to support his very beautiful, but large warm blood head. My gut feeling was that something in his neck was causing the hind end to cave out from under him suggested they have him immediately evalauted by a Vet to not even think about an Equine Chiro until they had him thoroughly checked. Since they had just done a pre-purchase exam, they did not. His shoeing saddlefit looked fine to me. 3 months later he was started falling down under saddle when turned Vet was finally called. The Vet found an un-healed stress fracture in C6 that he said had probably been there for a few monthes which of course was the cause of his problems. The fracture became worse over the next 3-4 weeks this horse had to be put down. The Vet said that he was certain from the placement of the fracture that this was from his neck being unable to support his head that he had seen this in quite a few Warmblood X's Arabs the past 5 years. I've personally seen similar in both Arabs in Mini's that are being bred for more more human appearance taste preferences. Even though the mini's aren't ridden, they suffer because there is not enough room in their head for their teeth or in their pelvis to carry their babies. On the other hand, I saw a few successful early cross breedings at Viking Saga that resulted in happy, healthy individuals with wonderful temperments who shared many years carrying their people down the trail. Some may not have had what many consider pure gaits for an Icelandic some were only 3 gaited, but they were happy, healthy sound until they died in their late 20's. The ones I saw were blessed to have owners who appreciated them as individuals not for just their gait, but many are not so fortunate. No one knows for sure, but I think these were crossed with some of Fritz's standardbred horses with the original Danish breeding for the Icelandic side. It gave much more size/good bone/great temperment, but not so good gaits (read toelt) in most. I think that some crosses work wonderfully in horses /dogs cats, but when we cross horses that are going be ridden we need to give careful thought to the worse case scenario that could occur before we breed because the animal suffers a life in a misshapen body not the human who thought it up. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: saddles
Make sure that you check the saddle fit front/cantle with the rider IN the saddle with all the padding you intend to use standing AND moving with a sidewalker to do the checking. If the rider tries to do this when they are in they either lean forward or back giving a skewed reading. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Rain
Yeah..I guess I'm a weather wus too. I live in Santa Ynez, Calif. the other morning it was 36F at 9:30am when I went out to ride...with wind. It was very dry, so as my husband keeps pointing out it doesn't feel as cold as damp cold. Felt pretty cold to me though!!! Please send us some of your rain..we haven't had much(read almost none) this year. Two consecutive dry years like this will set the stage for a nasty fire season next summer fall. It looks like we may be moving to the Bend/Redmond area of Oregon...so I'd better get used to it. 36F as a daytime high is considered normal Dec.-Feb. in that neck of the woods. Must say that my Icey boys sure love it. I think the warm California winters depress them even though I clip them several times if it is a dry year. Any ideas from you experienced cold weather folks for brand of gloves to ride in that allow feel, but keep you warm.??? I have been using some winter riding tights that Dawn custom made for me (not her pants) in Wind Pro over a med. weight long john from Cabela's with Winter Silk sock liners in my winter Ariat boots. I love Dawn's custom riding tights as they are the best fit for my very small frame I have found since O'Keahy's went to the Phillipines for manufacturing. The only down side is that so far she can't put faux suede patches on for grip, but I'm hoping she will figure it out soon. Then they will be perfection at least for me!! Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: saddles
I recommend the RP for quite a few of my saddle fit clients who don't do well in Treefrees/Torsions or Sensations. You do have to have a really skilled RP fitter that will travel to you to make them work over the long haul. They are pricey, but worth it as they hold their re-sale value. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Arab Icelandic Cross
I rode SC Kisi quite a few times when he was still a stallion. Kisi had a very nice toelt was very willing as they say in Iceland, but controllable. He was a total gentleman even in the presence of mares. Litla Freya also had babies with good temperments. I was hanging out at Elizabeth's during the 1996-99 period saw a few of Kisi's babies started. All the one I saw were quite easy went along with the program. I hope the mare finds a good forever home. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Njorthur again
Nancy: I have at least 20 Icelandic riders I have sold Sensations to in the past 2 years that are close to your weight. Many ride longer distances. With appropriate padding, they seem to do quite well. If you want to contact me off list perhaps a few of them would be willing to speak with you about their experiences. I know Susan Cooper rides her TWH in a Sensation /is about your weight does distance riding as well. Maybe she can weigh in on her experiences. I too was skeptical about treeless, but the Sensation really does offer better weight distribution because of the interior construction multi point rigging that most other treeless saddles believe me, I have tried them all both with myself my group of 30 riders out here. There are even several equine chiropractors that rec. the Sensation for appropriately built horses with riders under 200lbs. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Example of Whisper's Personality
I had an absolutely amazing Columbian Boa named Teila I rescued from a pet store alomst 20 years ago. She would follow me around the apartment I lived in loved to cuddle up laying on the center line of my body with her head over my heart when we watched TV at night. She unfortunately died only 1 year later at age 3 from the foreign parasites she acquired at the pet store from being kept in an enclosure with wild caught boas. She was my first boa, so thinking that all boas were like her, I rescued another Mexican Boa, Sabrina from the same pet store. You could not have had two more different creatures. Sabrina hissed at me for the first 6 months , but absolutely loved any repairmen who came into my apartment even though they were total strangers. I came to find out that her first person who bought her slightly after birth was a contractor who carried her in his tool pouch until she became too large . He took her to the pet store on consignment where I bought her the next month. She still prefers men loves my husband, but barely tolerates me after 17 years even though I am her caretaker 100%. BTW, Sabrina is now 9 ft long about 35 lbs. Her partner, Surynam Boa, Rascal, is 11 ft long and about 30 lbs. I hope that when my two much loved Icelandics pass over that I will be graced with Icelandics who love care for me as much as they do. Lalli Selur are the best matched equine companions I have ever had. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Wine, Full Moon, Nose Rings / Tattoos
Yeah..well I'm coming 57 yo guess I would be considered pretty tame from my earlier years. When I was 16 yo, I played rhythm guitar sang in a S.F. rock band .Our band was about 32nd billing to Carlos Santana in a few events in Golden Gate Park circa 1967 . Also experimented with about every drug know to man at that time...the quintessential wild child.I bought my first electric 12 string guitar from Paul Kantner of the Jefferson Airplane. Boy...those were some memorable times living in San Francisco during summer of love. Even met Mick Jagger Jimmy Hendricks at the Monterrey Pop Festival. Now I just have an oriental healing arts practice for horses human . I rarely ever eating sugar indulge in a few sips of champagne on special occasions . Nothing that isn't organic or free range ever passes my lips. The other day I caught myself thinking Boy, kids these days about the Goth Kids that live down the block!!Sometimes I swear I'm channelling my mother . Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Respect of the Icelandic Horse
I would agree with Robyn that the way humans behave towards all living creatures is influenced by how they are shaped by parents/cultural views/their own life's experiences.This in no way excuses people for bad behavior or absolves them of responsibility for their actions, but I have found that the best way to change a behavior is to understand it first from the other beings point of view. In turn I feel it is important to realize that when we wish to offer alternative ways of doing things /present a different way of thinking to others with whom we do not agree that we both teach by example and very importantly do not attack or judge. No one learns in an atmosphere of judgement very often the act of doing so makes people unable to even hear what you are trying to get across.It can be very challenging to remain neutral in situations where we perceive an animal is being unfairly treated or abused, but if you set up an us vs. them, then no one benefits or learns... least of all the animal. Believe me, I have learned the hard way, that by being judgemental self-righteous (no matter how justified I feel in the situation) no one wins...especially the animal. I have to remind myself constantly in my business that humans write the checks make the choices. If I want to truly help the animal, then I need to have the human on board. One of my Taoist teachers often reminded me that we teach best the things we need to learn the most. I absolutely love the TTEAM approach to both establishing better communication / understanding our animal friends AND have found that the same principles have served me well in opening up new avenues of communication with/ understanding of humans too . Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Tai Chi
In response to Wanda's Tai Chi q's, I might have sent 1 partial reply because my sleeve hit the mouse before I was done. There are many forms of Tai Chi Chi Gung that have long forms short forms (the number of movements in a set). Of course short form may be easier to learn in the beginning because there are less movement sequences in the set. Yang form is the most prevalent taught in the US fairly easy to learn as well as being universelly effective for many ailments humans accumulate over the years. I think videos are great to memory jog at home, but highly recommend in person group classes because of the community spirit, support friendship if it is close enough for you to get to regularly. Also the group energy field is enhanced when done together. This is why Tai Chi Chi Gung are practiced in groups in China..healing is greatly enhanced in group settings. People attracted to Tai Chi are like people attracted to Icelandics, so you could make quite a few long terms friends this way. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Tai Chi
Wanda: I studied Tai Chi Chi Gung from several Taoist Masters when I lived in LA/was in the beginnings of my Oriental Medicine studies 26 years ago. It helps with a lot more than circulation too!! It's like giving yourself a daily acupucture treatment without going anywhere or costing anything. Keep us posted on how you like the Tai Chi. Kaaren
[IceHorses] Re: Sensation Hybrid treeless saddle
I am a Sensation dealer as well as an Iceleandic owner. On my web-site, there is a testimonial page with pix/testimonials from quite a few Icey owners. I have personally sold Sensations to about 80 Icelandic owners over the 5 years I have been doing this could probably get permission from some of them for contact info. if you like. Robyn Hood from the Icelandic Horse Farm in Canada also has been a Senssation dealer for many years could give you detailed info as well. Contact me OFF LIST please. Kaaren Kaaren Jordan http://kaarenjordan.com
[IceHorses] Re: safety modification to gate
Sorry, don't have the type digital interface to do this. I can't even log onto the list to get pix. You can call me privately I can describe what was done though. Kaaren
