Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: There is nothing that requires it, no. But then, we are not talking about requirements, we are talking about whether Ubuntu fits into the free software ecosystem, instead of leeching off it. How you can define free software ecosystem as just developing and coding ?, I don`t really seems the point here, According to me Free Software Ecosystem is much much more than that. In that case, you have your own personal definition of what a free software community is. The FSF, Greg, Me, and Debian at large differ. So why FSF goes on in events evangalizing Open source software, What`s with RMS patent talks ? Greg talk was in a developer conferences and his points where very much valid to the audience there. But if his points were taken in General that`s wrong. FSF says Ubuntu is evil ? , Where ? And if you think that the Free software awareness Ubuntu has brought doesn`t qualify in being in Free software ecosystem , Then my friend you are wrong , Because then you bring to the conclusion that FSF has no meaning of existence even Will love to know *specifically* were i am wrong ! -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 16:35:56 Gaurav Mishra wrote: And if you think that the Free software awareness Ubuntu has brought doesn`t qualify in being in Free software ecosystem , Then my friend you are wrong , Because then you bring to the conclusion that FSF has no meaning of existence even Will love to know *specifically* were i am wrong ! Actually, Gaurav, this is less of an FSF and more of a Debian issue. So no point in dragging FSF into this debate. :) Manoj has a point in Ubuntu having problems fixing patches upstream. It might be true, but certainly not intentional. Ubuntu's benevolent dictator - Mark talks about Ubuntu's perspective of the problem here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/145 . You can certainly make out that he also agrees with the basic premise that changes should go upstream. But he also mentions atleast one aspect of the problem Ubuntu faces: In the month of April 2008, I found the following bug counts for large FLOSS projects: Upstreams: Mozilla 5,334 OpenOffice 1,076 Gnome 5,364 KDE 1,335 Total:13,109 Distributions: Ubuntu13,064 Debian5,103 With hindsight, April was possibly a bad choice, because it was an Ubuntu release month so there’s usually a small spike in the number of bugs filed. It would be interesting to see the stats for other distributions, and projects, over a full year. But the general picture is clear - within our family of distributions, Ubuntu carries the brunt of the load w.r.t. bug tracking, triage and patch management - not only for our users, but for a broad cross-section of the open source stack. The numbers are clear. Especially for a distro which has made itself a mission of releasing every six months, handling an order of magnitude more bugs than other projects is certainly an issue. It is no excuse for not sending patches upstream, but people in this thread have oversimplified the process of actually sending patches upstream. Mark talks about it a bit in that post (read, ensuring that fixes get made upstream in the required time needs more than technical skills ;) ). As Manoj has pointed out, there is probably a problem right now, and he might be right about it. My take is that it is not always an intentional thing but more of a case of a problem in managing the a project of the scale of Ubuntu. But, again, bitching to the world about how Ubuntu has been *leeching* from Debian does certainly not help their case ( or Ubuntu's). For two distributions which share so much and have quite a bit of overlap in goals, it certainly is not an effective way of co-operation in fixing this issue. I actually makes me suspect if the Debian folks are interested in a solution at all. It seems more like they are quite ok with Ubuntu not being there at all, regardless of whether Ubuntu has made any difference to the FOSS world. Sad, really, for a distro having such lofty goals. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Manoj has pointed out, there is probably a problem right now, and he might be right about it. My take is that it is not always an intentional thing but more of a case of a problem in managing the a project of the scale of Ubuntu. Fully agreed , This is a very logical and practical reasoning. However blaming Ubuntu is crazy -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] (Fw) FOSS.IN agenda for this year
foss.in is trying to change it's focus (again :) ) this year, and they are planning for something quite ambitious. In a way it is good for events to carve their own niche instead of having the same general outlook in each of them. Any comments? - Sandip http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/foss-in/message/5219 From: Atul Chitnis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: FOSS.IN/2008: The Omelette Post :) Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 16:51:06 +0530 (IST) All: A lot of people have noticed that unlike in previous years, we are not as loud about FOSS.IN as we usually are. Now that the Call for Participation is about to be published, it is time to explain why FOSS.IN/2008 is going to be different from earlier incarnations. First a quick reminder: FOSS.IN/2008 happens November 25-29, 2008, in Bangalore, India. The website is at http://foss.in. EVENT FOCUS --- FOSS.IN has never been about advocacy, or philosophical discussions. While such discussions may have their place, they steal valuable bandwidth when it comes to getting things done. Especially here in India, where we tend to lean towards political and religious aspects more easily than we tend to roll up our sleeves and get some work done, it is important to understand that FOSS.IN is meant to achieve tangible results. With this in mind, FOSS.IN/2007 (last year's event) did not accept talks that did not deliver practical, technical knowledge related to FOSS. And the talks had to be delivered by actual contributors to the project being discussed. Also, FOSS.IN is NOT a newbie event. A newbie is defined as someone who has no skills or knowledge or experience that would allow him or her to immediately contribute to FOSS development. As has been repeatedly explained to anyone who would listen - there are lots of newbie oriented events all through the year, all over India, and people should be geting their introductions to FOSS and their initial learning at such events, including at user group meetings. However, I personally was still unhappy with last years' results. Despite the fact that we made it clear that we did not want to see elementary stuff being covered at FOSS.IN, many of the talks were just that. The Projects Days were very popular, but FOSS.IN is not about popularity, it is about results. And the bottom line is that while there was a measureable increase in people getting involved in FOSS contribution, the quality left a lot to be desired. Most new contributors focused only on low hanging fruit, such as translations, and distro-specific packaging. If people got involved with code, it was usually bug fixes and code maintenance. While all these activities are extremely important, they do not need an event like FOSS.IN to be triggered off - these are things one can get involved with instantly, without really asking anyone, or attending a talk. FOSS.IN is far more ambitious, and is definitely not meant to cater to the equivalent of outsourcing code/package maintenance. Our event is meant to highlight Indian contribution to Free and Open Source Software - not just bug fixes, but real code contributions, real innovation, real projects. Last year, we changed the event slogan from Technology for a Free World (that we had used since Linux Bangalore/2001) to Linus Torvalds' immortal oneliner: Talk is Cheap, Show Me the Code This, in no uncertain terms, firmly declares the focus of FOSS.IN. Effective this year, FOSS.IN will focus on developers, and results. It will highlight credible efforts by people in India contributing to FOSS, and will bring together developers at peer level, to allow them to interact, discuss, develop and deliver. Delivery does not mean mere bug fixing. Delivery will be new features to existing applications, completely new subsystems (e.g. file systems, device drivers, etc.), (re)design of systems and applications, etc. Now I understand that many people will feel left out. There will be howls from the detractors about us abandoning the basis for Free and Open Source Software, and us being Anti-FOSS. This is because in their minds, we must always cater only to beginners, and bring more people into the fold. Thank you, but that line of thinking was old when someone said that Linux is cancer and Anti-American (and I think there were a few chairs involved, too). Just because we choose to do things differently does not mean that we are doing it wrong. Yes, we realise that this will reduce the number of people who may come to the event. Maybe we will be 500 people, maybe 1000. But that is OK. We are trying to produce results that are measurable by our yardsticks (active/increased contributors out of India), not those invariably used by others (4.91 quantillion participants). At FOSS.IN/2008, we want to see the best of the best from India. We want to see the people who actually write the code, and who ARE contributing, interact face to face with their
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: Launchpad isnt that closed source itself ? Closed source what? Software? Can you point me where I can download it? Exactly. Isnt that a part of what the point is - that their development inhouse isnt really open at all ? Even the one product they have which can be downloaded isnt open source at all. then there is the issue that while a single ubuntu install is gpl'ish licensed, a collection of ubuntu installs isnt. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
Gaurav Mishra wrote: you seem to either prefer to evade the issue, or miss the point completely. Anyway, enjoy. Hmm, I understand what you want to say and what greg`s talk was all about. I dont think you do.. because... I didn`t made the point that RH, Suse, Centos and other open source distro didn`t made valuable contribution , Yes they did. But it`s also fair enough to say that ubuntu is making good enough contribution to FOSS world. I believe a lot of the noise is about Canonical and their policy / processes. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gaurav Mishra wrote: you seem to either prefer to evade the issue, or miss the point completely. Anyway, enjoy. Hmm, I understand what you want to say and what greg`s talk was all about. I dont think you do.. because... I think that Sandeep summed up nicely in his previous mail what i want to convey, So no point of my explaining and repeating same things -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 19:23:44 Karanbir Singh wrote: Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: Launchpad isnt that closed source itself ? Closed source what? Software? Can you point me where I can download it? Exactly. Isnt that a part of what the point is - that their development inhouse isnt really open at all ? Even the one product they have which can be downloaded isnt open source at all. You don't seem to have understood my question. What exactly are you implying is close sourced? A piece of software that is being distributed or otherwise commercially sold? Or the code behind a service that is being commercially exploited? - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: You don't seem to have understood my question. What exactly are you implying is close sourced? A piece of software that is being distributed or otherwise commercially sold? Or the code behind a service that is being commercially exploited? you guys really need to start looking at stuff before commenting on it. if you really dont know what launchpad is, a bit of research would be well in order. eg, components that went into launchpad, and are used elsewhere in canonical's projects still remain closed source. A simple 5 min google for 'launchpad open source' would give you plenty of foo to roost over, even looking at the wikipedia page for launchpad and its talk pages should have some info for you. To be honest, I have better things to do than feed foo down clueless fanboys. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 21:09:27 Karanbir Singh wrote: To be honest, I have better things to do than feed foo down clueless fanboys. I am continuously amused by the singular acerbic tone in all your mails. Sure, you don't like to feed clueless fanboys like me. But you sure keep replying to our mails to keep your reputation in place. :) - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Gaurav Mishra writes: [...] So why FSF goes on in events evangalizing Open source software, What`s with RMS patent talks ? IIRC, RMS or probably FSF too, never talked about Open Source stuff, on the contrary they clearly mention the difference between 'Open Source' and 'Free Software'[1]. References: [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/open-source-misses-the-point.html Ashish - -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against HTML e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ·-- ·- ·--- ·- ···- ·- ·--·-· --· -- ·- ·· ·-·· ·-·-·- -·-· --- -- % dig +short cname cdac.in @::1 ms.gov.in -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjjnDgACgkQHy+EEHYuXnSftwCeLswdZAFNY2cb6+r9msRwJtgm wNsAoLHr1yTeiXTgEYSBap7mfjba1DO0 =riI0 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:09 PM, Karanbir Singh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: You don't seem to have understood my question. What exactly are you implying is close sourced? A piece of software that is being distributed or otherwise commercially sold? Or the code behind a service that is being commercially exploited? you guys really need to start looking at stuff before commenting on it. if you really dont know what launchpad is, a bit of research would be well in order. eg, components that went into launchpad, and are used elsewhere in canonical's projects still remain closed source. A simple 5 min google for 'launchpad open source' would give you plenty of foo to roost over, even looking at the wikipedia page for launchpad and its talk pages should have some info for you. -- Did you googled the Keywords before writing them down here :P launchpad open source , Brings these results http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2008/07/23/mark-shuttleworth-launchpad-to-be-open-source-in-12-months http://www.ubuntu.com/news/storm-python-orm-open-sourced -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 21:09:27 Karanbir Singh wrote: To be honest, I have better things to do than feed foo down clueless fanboys. I am continuously amused by the singular acerbic tone in all your mails. Sure, you don't like to feed clueless fanboys like me. But you sure keep replying to our mails to keep your reputation in place. :) dont worry Sandip, I just opted out. Enjoy. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:48 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 8:11 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Sep 30 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: There is nothing that requires it, no. But then, we are not talking about requirements, we are talking about whether Ubuntu fits into the free software ecosystem, instead of leeching off it. How you can define free software ecosystem as just developing and coding ?, I don`t really seems the point here, According to me Free Software Ecosystem is much much more than that. In that case, you have your own personal definition of what a free software community is. The FSF, Greg, Me, and Debian at large differ. So why FSF goes on in events evangalizing Open source software, What`s with RMS patent talks ? I have no idea why the FSF does what the FSF does. I also believe that the FSF distributes non-fre software, but that is another discussion. Greg talk was in a developer conferences and his points where very much valid to the audience there. But if his points were taken in General that`s wrong. FSF says Ubuntu is evil ? , Where ? I do not think you are reading what I wrote. I said that the FSF and Debian have a common definition of what we consider to be the free software community. I did not say the FSF said Ubuntu was evil. And if you think that the Free software awareness Ubuntu has brought doesn`t qualify in being in Free software ecosystem , Then my friend you are wrong , Because then you bring to the conclusion that FSF has no meaning of existence even No, I don't think that Ubuntu is a good player in the free software world, no. Ubuntu is all about making ubuntu better. That helps some Ubuntu users, and is ano at all bad. But Ubuntu contributes little to the rest of the free software world; and no matter how good Ubuntu is for Ubuntu users, that does not change that. Will love to know *specifically* were i am wrong ! You think Ubuntu being good for Ubuntu users is all that matters to be a good free software citizen. manoj -- He had occasional flashes of silence that made his conversation perfectly delightful. -- Sydney Smith Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 21:09:27 Karanbir Singh wrote: you guys really need to start looking at stuff before commenting on it. if you really dont know what launchpad is, a bit of research would be well in order. eg, components that went into launchpad, and are used elsewhere in canonical's projects still remain closed source. A simple 5 min google for 'launchpad open source' would give you plenty of foo to roost over, even looking at the wikipedia page for launchpad and its talk pages should have some info for you. So I looked at Launchpad again to see if there is earth shattering that I have been missing and that everybody else have got. And my question still stands. Before jumping your gun and showing your impatience with anybody disagreeing with you and making a complete fool of yourself, it would suit you well to take a minute to read what they might be asking. As per Wikipedia: Launchpad is a web application and web site supporting software development, particularly that of free software. It helps in managing software components, so it is ofcourse a piece of software. But to people using it, it is a service. Get what I am talking about? Do you understand software as a service? Here is a comparison of different such *services*. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_software_hosting_facilities#cite_note-3 Interestingly, compare it to how sourceforge has been working all these years. Unlike Sourceforge, it does not require you to grant a perpetual proprietary licence if you upload code. It has not stopped zillions of prominent free software to using it for their development. I really find this whole business of using launchpad as a beating stick really disgusting. And like you, I too don't like wasting too much of my time with obsessively negative people who don't ever have anything constructive to say. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: Manoj has a point in Ubuntu having problems fixing patches upstream. It might be true, but certainly not intentional. Ubuntu's benevolent dictator - Mark talks about Ubuntu's perspective of the problem here: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/145 . You can certainly make out that he also agrees with the basic premise that changes should go upstream. But he also mentions atleast one aspect of the problem Ubuntu faces: The numbers are clear. Especially for a distro which has made itself a mission of releasing every six months, handling an order of magnitude more bugs than other projects is certainly an issue. It is no excuse for not sending patches upstream, but people in this thread have oversimplified the process of actually sending patches upstream. Mark talks about it a bit in that post (read, ensuring that fixes get made upstream in the required time needs more than technical skills ;) ). A) How many bugs were actually handled, as opposed to filed? B) Filing the bugs and patches does not need more than just technical skills and the ability to send email. Frankly, for a dostro that handles a fraction of the packages that Debian does, for about one tenth f the architectures that Debian supports, and who has a corporate sponsor, unlike Debian, this whole bit of oooh, oooh, we can't possibly send mail to the Debian BTS sounds like excuses. But, again, bitching to the world about how Ubuntu has been *leeching* from Debian does certainly not help their case ( or Ubuntu's). For two As far as I can see, keeping mum about the issue does not help Debian either. distributions which share so much and have quite a bit of overlap in goals, it certainly is not an effective way of co-operation in fixing this issue. I actually makes me suspect if the Debian folks are interested in a solution at all. It seems more like they are quite ok with Ubuntu not being there at all, regardless of whether Ubuntu has made any difference to the FOSS world. Sad, really, for a distro having such lofty goals. You are right. Ubuntu has not made my task easuier, or made the lives of my users any easier. If anything, they are an obstacle int he way of people using my code to communicate issues they find in my code from getting to me, which is irksome. Since I do nto do free software for altruistic reasons, I do not see the benefit really of getting more unwashed masses into Linux. Really I don't. They do not seem to be lifting the forks to feed the rest of us. manoj -- panic: kernel segmentation violation. core dumped (only kidding) Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And if you think that the Free software awareness Ubuntu has brought doesn`t qualify in being in Free software ecosystem , Then my friend you are wrong , Because then you bring to the conclusion that FSF has no meaning of existence even No, I don't think that Ubuntu is a good player in the free software world, no. Ubuntu is all about making ubuntu better. That helps some Ubuntu users, and is ano at all bad. But Ubuntu contributes little to the rest of the free software world; and no matter how good Ubuntu is for Ubuntu users, that does not change that. Will love to know *specifically* were i am wrong ! You think Ubuntu being good for Ubuntu users is all that matters to be a good free software citizen. Then let me define the basic of Free software for you. Free Software is all about freedom and everybody is free to scratch their own back and make the code open source so that everyone can download and reuse it. Ubuntu is doing exactly that. What Ubuntu is not doing, is spoonfeeding every project the fixes which Ubuntu community make. And as Sandip said it`s more than infrastructure and resource problem , Rather than intentionally not doing it , or in your terms *being evil* Anybody who thinks that it`s Easy to maintain all fixes in Upstream is totally free taking a fork of Ubuntu and start maintaining all updates and fixes in upstream , Will love to know how it goes if somebody do that -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Manoj has pointed out, there is probably a problem right now, and he might be right about it. My take is that it is not always an intentional thing but more of a case of a problem in managing the a project of the scale of Ubuntu. Fully agreed , This is a very logical and practical reasoning. However blaming Ubuntu is crazy So, a project that handles only a fraction of the packages Debian does (only a couple thousand in the main repo, iirc), 95% of which it pulls through unchanged from Debian (there does no work on them), which handles one tenth of the architectures Debian supports, with corporate backing from a billionaire (which Debian does not have), they do less well of a job than unpaid Debian volunteers can, and for that stellar performance, they are suppoosed to be criticism free? Jesus. manoj -- Forty two. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As Manoj has pointed out, there is probably a problem right now, and he might be right about it. My take is that it is not always an intentional thing but more of a case of a problem in managing the a project of the scale of Ubuntu. Fully agreed , This is a very logical and practical reasoning. However blaming Ubuntu is crazy So, a project that handles only a fraction of the packages Debian does (only a couple thousand in the main repo, iirc), 95% of which it pulls through unchanged from Debian (there does no work on them), which handles one tenth of the architectures Debian supports, with corporate backing from a billionaire (which Debian does not have), they do less well of a job than unpaid Debian volunteers can, and for that stellar performance, they are suppoosed to be criticism free? Compare the number of volunteer contricuters of debian and ubuntu! Compare the time-span of existence of ubuntu and debian ! Your above statement sounds to me like Telling a startup to close it`s business , Because they are not as big as IBM Be optimistic and look constructive -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 19:23:44 Karanbir Singh wrote: Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: Launchpad isnt that closed source itself ? Closed source what? Software? Can you point me where I can download it? Exactly. Isnt that a part of what the point is - that their development inhouse isnt really open at all ? Even the one product they have which can be downloaded isnt open source at all. You don't seem to have understood my question. What exactly are you implying is close sourced? A piece of software that is being distributed or otherwise commercially sold? Or the code behind a service that is being commercially exploited? The implication was that Launchpad is closed source. That means the license it is distributed under is not one that is deemed free software. Google for launchpad free license or the ilk to see what this is all about (shouldn't you have done that before posting?) manoj -- Phasers locked on target, Captain. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:46 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 19:23:44 Karanbir Singh wrote: Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: Launchpad isnt that closed source itself ? Closed source what? Software? Can you point me where I can download it? Exactly. Isnt that a part of what the point is - that their development inhouse isnt really open at all ? Even the one product they have which can be downloaded isnt open source at all. You don't seem to have understood my question. What exactly are you implying is close sourced? A piece of software that is being distributed or otherwise commercially sold? Or the code behind a service that is being commercially exploited? The implication was that Launchpad is closed source. That means the license it is distributed under is not one that is deemed free software. Google for launchpad free license or the ilk to see what this is all about (shouldn't you have done that before posting?) It`s not a *SOFTWARE* it`s a *SERVICE* -- Thanks and Regards Gaurav Mishra Linux User #348873 http://gauravmishra.info/blog When i can run , i will run , When i can walk , i will walk, When i can crawl , i will crawl. But i will not stop moving forward ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: So, a project that handles only a fraction of the packages Debian does (only a couple thousand in the main repo, iirc), 95% of which it pulls through unchanged from Debian (there does no work on them), which handles one tenth of the architectures Debian supports, with corporate backing from a billionaire (which Debian does not have), they do less well of a job than unpaid Debian volunteers can, and for that stellar performance, they are suppoosed to be criticism free? Compare the number of volunteer contricuters of debian and ubuntu! I thought the numbers of Ubuntu MOTUs were legion? Compare the time-span of existence of ubuntu and debian ! After a couple of years and 3-4 releases, you reach steady state. You ought to have your sshit together well enough to feed patches et al upstream by then. Your above statement sounds to me like Telling a startup to close it`s business , Because they are not as big as IBM Ubuntu is not a startup any more. They have been around since October 2004. That is 4 years and counting. In terms of distributions, they are well into middle age. manoj -- The price one pays for pursuing any profession, or calling, is an intimate knowledge of its ugly side. -- James Baldwin Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: It`s not a *SOFTWARE* it`s a *SERVICE* You mean there is not software that provides the service? If there is, is that software not non-free? manoj amused now -- Watch all-night Donna Reed reruns until your mind resembles oatmeal. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Gaurav Mishra wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 9:33 PM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And if you think that the Free software awareness Ubuntu has brought doesn`t qualify in being in Free software ecosystem , Then my friend you are wrong , Because then you bring to the conclusion that FSF has no meaning of existence even No, I don't think that Ubuntu is a good player in the free software world, no. Ubuntu is all about making ubuntu better. That helps some Ubuntu users, and is ano at all bad. But Ubuntu contributes little to the rest of the free software world; and no matter how good Ubuntu is for Ubuntu users, that does not change that. Will love to know *specifically* were i am wrong ! You think Ubuntu being good for Ubuntu users is all that matters to be a good free software citizen. Then let me define the basic of Free software for you. Free Software is all about freedom and everybody is free to scratch their own back and make the code open source so that everyone can download and reuse it. Ubuntu is doing exactly that. Sure. But that is free software. Ubuntu is mostly free software, no dispute. Ubuntu also does not play well in the free software ecosystem. That is a different thing. I think you fail to grasp the difference between free software and the cosystem in which the creators of free software live in. What Ubuntu is not doing, is spoonfeeding every project the fixes which Ubuntu community make. And as Sandip said it`s more than infrastructure and resource problem , Rather than intentionally not doing it , or in your terms *being evil* So, Ubuntu takes software from other people, and hoards the fixes? Sounds evil to me. Also, the software they write, they keep closed source. Err, not-free-0sftware, I suppose. Hmm. See where this is going? Anybody who thinks that it`s Easy to maintain all fixes in Upstream is totally free taking a fork of Ubuntu and start maintaining all updates and fixes in upstream , Will love to know how it goes if somebody do that Heck, I do that. But I don't take from Ubuntu. Ubuntu takes from me, and others like me. And we feed patches and bugs upstream, unlike Ubuntu. manoj -- Hog's breath is better than no breath at all. Hog's Breath Saloon, Fort Walton Beach, Florida Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: As per Wikipedia: Launchpad is a web application and web site supporting software development, particularly that of free software. It helps in managing software components, so it is ofcourse a piece of software. But to people using it, it is a service. Get what I am talking about? Do you understand software as a service? Here is a comparison of different such *services*. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open_source_software_hosting_facilities#cite_note-3 Interestingly, compare it to how sourceforge has been working all these years. Unlike Sourceforge, it does not require you to grant a perpetual proprietary licence if you upload code. It has not stopped zillions of prominent free software to using it for their development. I really find this whole business of using launchpad as a beating stick really disgusting. And like you, I too don't like wasting too much of my time with obsessively negative people who don't ever have anything constructive to say. So, it is software that helps to provide a service. That piece of software is non-free. I think that matters. Whether the software runs as a one shot unix like input/output filter, or it generates web pages, or it is daemonized and handles requests (like, say, an X Windows server), it is still a computer program that runs and manipulated bits. If it is not free software, it is like any other free to use closed source software. And having the major original pieceof software Ubuntu writes being closed source matters, whether it is or is not a daemon. Free software is not about it being free to use. It is about it being free to modify and distribute. manoj -- The more I see of men the more I admire dogs. Mme De Sevigne, 1626-1696 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] Defeating os fingerprinting
Hi, I want to defeat os fingerprinting, especially nmap's os fingerprintinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_fingerprintingcapabilities,By doing a little research on the internet i found some kernel patches (ippersonality, stealth patch)...but they are all for 2.4.x kernels and i am using fedora9 which uses 2.6.x kernel Also i learned that by enabling NAT and by doing packet mangling with iptables we can confuse the finger printing software.. I want to know how to enable NAT and how to enable packet mangling with ip tables..does any one have experience in defeating os fingerprinting if so then please reply me. Thanks in advance! -- -Fighting 4 Freedom- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
dont worry Sandip, I just opted out. Enjoy. -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dear Karan ji, You points are very very informative and I would call them quality discussion. I understand that you might be a little turned off by some of the comments, but I would very much want you to, and even personally request, to keep correcting if you feel the discussion is going in wrong direction. Hope to see more from you on this thread. Regards Swapnil ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 22:22:11 Manoj Srivastava wrote: So, it is software that helps to provide a service. That piece of software is non-free. I think that matters. Whether the software runs as a one shot unix like input/output filter, or it generates web pages, or it is daemonized and handles requests (like, say, an X Windows server), it is still a computer program that runs and manipulated bits. If it is not free software, it is like any other free to use closed source software. And having the major original pieceof software Ubuntu writes being closed source matters, whether it is or is not a daemon. Free software is not about it being free to use. It is about it being free to modify and distribute. * Any particular reason why nobody from Debian or elsewhere has actually cribbed about RHN not being open source? * Leaving aside Launchpad, do you seriously believe that whenever someone writes a web application to provide a service to people, the author is obliged to spend time trying to package it as a general purpose software which can be reused by others for other kind of applications? - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, October 1, 2008 9:33 pm, Manoj Srivastava said: I have no idea why the FSF does what the FSF does. I also believe that the FSF distributes non-fre software, but that is another discussion. Sorry to go off-topic, but if you can explain what non-free software FSF distributes? Best, Atanu ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, October 1, 2008 11:25 pm, Sandip Bhattacharya said: * Any particular reason why nobody from Debian or elsewhere has actually cribbed about RHN not being open source? Because RHN's upstream, i.e., Spacewalk is open source -- exactly the same reason why no one *cribs* about Star Office, which is based on OOo, being closed source. Does Launchpad also have an upstream that is open? --Atanu ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:34:27 Atanu Datta wrote: On Wed, October 1, 2008 11:25 pm, Sandip Bhattacharya said: * Any particular reason why nobody from Debian or elsewhere has actually cribbed about RHN not being open source? Because RHN's upstream, i.e., Spacewalk is open source -- exactly the same reason why no one *cribs* about Star Office, which is based on OOo, being closed source. Does Launchpad also have an upstream that is open? My apologies. I have not been keeping up with the developments in the RH world, and hence this analogy. I just read a bit about it and I take my words back. http://www.press.redhat.com/2008/06/19/rhn-satellite-goes-open-source-project-spacewalk/ Of course, it is probably still relevant to some degree that it took them seven years to reach here, and even this is quite a recent development. Of course, nothing changes the fact that this is by itself a very laudable initiative, and addresses one of my long standing grouse against RH. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is awaiting. http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman -- Swapnil Bhartiya http://ybfree.blogspot.com/ Mobile: 09910956518 === I use Free Software, what do you use? === ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, October 1, 2008 11:52 pm, Sandip Bhattacharya said: Of course, it is probably still relevant to some degree that it took them seven years to reach here, and even this is quite a recent development. Better late than never. Of course, nothing changes the fact that this is by itself a very laudable initiative, and addresses one of my long standing grouse against RH. So, when's Canonical's *laudable initiative* due? Yes, Mark has been promising to free it since its inception at some point in future. Of course, when he finally does it, I will stop *cribbing* about this specific matter I guess. Best, Atanu ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 21:39:53 Manoj Srivastava wrote: You are right. Ubuntu has not made my task easuier, or made the lives of my users any easier. If anything, they are an obstacle int he way of people using my code to communicate issues they find in my code from getting to me, which is irksome. Since I do nto do free software for altruistic reasons, I do not see the benefit really of getting more unwashed masses into Linux. Really I don't. They do not seem to be lifting the forks to feed the rest of us. This was curious, so I dug around and read this: http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/india-irc.txt and seriously speaking, it was quite an eye opener. I have been trying to completely understand where you are coming from, and now I do. I am not sure though whether your views represent the rest of the Debian team. Unlike what some people think around here, my defense of Ubuntu has got less to do with my fascination about it, and more about my conviction that it currently provides one of the better Linux alternatives in the market for the masses. You have a very valid alternative of the world in mind and unlike me you have contributed a lot to that alternative, and I respect that. However, the masses don't figure in your utopia, but it does in mine. So I will close my end of the discussion at this point, because it is obvious that we can never reach a conclusion. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:54:31 Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is awaiting. Well, I have been waiting to see the FOSS response to this for a while now. It is an interesting problem to solve. Of course, just calling it a trap doesn't suffice. You have to provide an alternative. It is a very interesting technology which will obviously change the way many applications can work. It challenges the whole notion of how computing is done today. The only response to it from a FOSS POV is to provide an alternate business model. Something similar to how the SETI project(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_computing), or even Tor works. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:14 AM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 23:54:31 Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is awaiting. Well, I have been waiting to see the FOSS response to this for a while now. It is an interesting problem to solve. Of course, just calling it a trap doesn't suffice. You have to provide an alternative. It is a very interesting technology which will obviously change the way many applications can work. It challenges the whole notion of how computing is done today. The only response to it from a FOSS POV is to provide an alternate business model. Something similar to how the SETI project(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_computing), or even Tor works. - Sandip I quite agree with RMS. When we work locally at least data is with us. Cloud computing followed by SaaS is a dangerous stuff. There can be a lot of legal issues, for example, two years ago I did a story of Iran where US based companies were banned for offering any service in the nation. The entire nation came to knees as from basic emailing to ticket reservation and everything else depended on MS and other proprietary technologies. Now, where were they going to get support from? They switched to GNU/Linux and Free Software and they are building upon it. Now, since the companies operate globally how and why should the parent nation control that? What if India refused to sign Nuclear Treaty, and US puts embargo on India Google, Yahoo, and all US based companies asked to stop operations in India, everything will come to halt (Though Indian being a software power it may not happen still). You will lose all the data/application to access that residing on servers of those compnies. If you have data locally, you will still be alive and cicking. In the world of cloud computing/saas, we need more tranparancy, no vendor lock-in and neutral control of governments for companies operating globally. While intervieing most of the companies into SaaS space, including MS, when I asked the same question about control of parent country, they all refused to answer, This shows..things are fishy. Swapnil -- Swapnil Bhartiya http://ybfree.blogspot.com/ Mobile: 09910956518 === I use Free Software, what do you use? === ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: On Wednesday 01 October 2008 22:22:11 Manoj Srivastava wrote: So, it is software that helps to provide a service. That piece of software is non-free. I think that matters. Whether the software runs as a one shot unix like input/output filter, or it generates web pages, or it is daemonized and handles requests (like, say, an X Windows server), it is still a computer program that runs and manipulated bits. If it is not free software, it is like any other free to use closed source software. And having the major original pieceof software Ubuntu writes being closed source matters, whether it is or is not a daemon. Free software is not about it being free to use. It is about it being free to modify and distribute. * Any particular reason why nobody from Debian or elsewhere has actually cribbed about RHN not being open source? I usually do not go about complaining about the plethora of non-free software out there. This topic got my goat. * Leaving aside Launchpad, do you seriously believe that whenever someone writes a web application to provide a service to people, the author is obliged to spend time trying to package it as a general purpose software which can be reused by others for other kind of applications? If you want to be known as a good free software citizen, sure. There are no legal obligations. manoj -- My mother is a fish. William Faulkner Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wednesday-ji 01 Oct-ji 2008, Swapnil-ji Bhartiya-ji wrote: [snip] Previous mail of Raj, Manoj ji, Karan Ji, then Sandeep I find it grossly unfair that neither Sandip nor I rate a ``ji'', specially considering that I'm older that the other three (Manoj, KB and Sandip) put together. I'll even settle for ``Raj bhaiyya'' if you find the idea of calling me ``ji'' nauseating (as I do). Sandip can be ``-da''. On a more serious note, is this thread generating any fresh insights? I admit it's been fascinating reading and I've learned quite a bit from it, but it seems to be stagnating a bit now. Of course, that's just my opinion, but if everyone agrees it could be time to move on. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Thursday 02 October 2008 00:19:51 Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: I quite agree with RMS. When we work locally at least data is with us. Cloud computing followed by SaaS is a dangerous stuff. There can I am not saying that I disagree with RMS about the software freedom dangers of cloud computing in the hand of proprietary companies. What I am disagreeing is with the FOSS world not attempting to even touch the technology because the closed source business model is the only one we see. The technology is really attractive, and there is no doubt that if the right FOSS business model is found, it would benefit a lot of people without compromising the software freedom that we have today. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 2:24 PM, Swapnil Bhartiya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Today every company is talking about Cloud computing, but RMS has rejected as a trap and it truly is. How much sense does it make to adopt technologies pushed by some companies which could further lock us in. We are struggling to get out of non-free and jail created by MS and colonial cousins, before we could break that another jail is awaiting. As much as I respect RMS, he does have a habit of condemning things without suggesting an alternative. I need my data to be available everywhere. Not only that, I need my data to be processable everywhere as well. When I switch machines, the UI should change as little as possible and the data should not change at all! Without complicated software installation/importing/exporting steps! That's the problem that web2.0 / cloud computing solves. If someone could come up with a viable free solution for it then people will happily switch. -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Atanu Datta wrote: On Wed, October 1, 2008 9:33 pm, Manoj Srivastava said: I have no idea why the FSF does what the FSF does. I also believe that the FSF distributes non-fre software, but that is another discussion. Sorry to go off-topic, but if you can explain what non-free software FSF distributes? All their documentation is nonfree, for the most part. The documentation for make, for instance, lives in non-free. manoj ps: my definition of free is the Debian Free Software Guidelines -- Guard against physical unruliness. Be restrained in body. Abandoning physical wrong doing, lead a life of physical well doing. 231 Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I am disagreeing is with the FOSS world not attempting to even touch the technology because the closed source business model is the only one we see. The technology is really attractive, and there is no doubt that if the right FOSS business model is found, it would benefit a lot of people without compromising the software freedom that we have today. Exactly. Maybe opening up the data storage and exchange formats is part of the key. For example, gmail allows pop/smtp access, which means that your data is not be locked inside the gmail jail, even if the software is not free. Does that make it more acceptable than, say, hotmail? -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday-ji 01 Oct-ji 2008, Swapnil-ji Bhartiya-ji wrote: [snip] Previous mail of Raj, Manoj ji, Karan Ji, then Sandeep I find it grossly unfair that neither Sandip nor I rate a ``ji'', specially considering that I'm older that the other three (Manoj, KB and Sandip) put together. I'll even settle for ``Raj bhaiyya'' if you find the idea of calling me ``ji'' nauseating (as I do). Sandip can be ``-da''. On a more serious note, is this thread generating any fresh insights? I admit it's been fascinating reading and I've learned quite a bit from it, but it seems to be stagnating a bit now. Of course, that's just my opinion, but if everyone agrees it could be time to move on. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Bhaiyya, I quite agree with you on this one :P If others also agree we can conclude this thread. Actually I did put a Ji in front of you and Sandeep 'da' but saved as a draft and in the second drafting Ji got dropped. You know 'G' forces are always ahard to handle. and 6 G is too much :D Swapnil ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday-ji 01 Oct-ji 2008, Swapnil-ji Bhartiya-ji wrote: [snip] Previous mail of Raj, Manoj ji, Karan Ji, then Sandeep I find it grossly unfair that neither Sandip nor I rate a ``ji'', specially considering that I'm older that the other three (Manoj, KB and Sandip) put together. I'll even settle for ``Raj bhaiyya'' if you find the idea of calling me ``ji'' nauseating (as I do). Sandip can be ``-da''. Probably, ji is used only for the contributors and you may not be in that category according to various definitions and standards and references discussed in this thread ;-) using da will start another thread and another flame war about TM and SM for da and/or ji :-)) -Sudhanwa ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~~ www.sudhanwa.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Thu, October 2, 2008 12:31 am, Manoj Srivastava said: On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Atanu Datta wrote: On Wed, October 1, 2008 9:33 pm, Manoj Srivastava said: I have no idea why the FSF does what the FSF does. I also believe that the FSF distributes non-fre software, but that is another discussion. Sorry to go off-topic, but if you can explain what non-free software FSF distributes? All their documentation is nonfree, for the most part. The documentation for make, for instance, lives in non-free. All GNU documentation, including that of GNU make, are released under GNU FDL. May I know why Debian Free Software Guidelines considers it non-free? manoj ps: my definition of free is the Debian Free Software Guidelines I only understand the 4 freedoms. Any more pointers most of the times confuse me. --Atanu ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Thursday 02 October 2008 00:55:21 Atanu Datta wrote: All GNU documentation, including that of GNU make, are released under GNU FDL. May I know why Debian Free Software Guidelines considers it non-free? http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml I am not sure how current it is, but Manoj can clarify that. It is a rather poetic display of the clash between FSF's and Debian's interpretation of what freedom should be. :) Debian's points do matter, legally speaking, but if you take a step back and see what is happening, it sometimes makes you shake your head. - Sandip ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Thu, October 2, 2008 1:02 am, Sandip Bhattacharya said: On Thursday 02 October 2008 00:55:21 Atanu Datta wrote: All GNU documentation, including that of GNU make, are released under GNU FDL. May I know why Debian Free Software Guidelines considers it non-free? http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml I am not sure how current it is, but Manoj can clarify that. It is a rather poetic display of the clash between FSF's and Debian's interpretation of what freedom should be. :) Debian's points do matter, legally speaking, but if you take a step back and see what is happening, it sometimes makes you shake your head. Aha, that's a huge explanation. I will surely invest a substantial amount of time to understand what is being said there. There's a good story in this. However, I personally would beg to support the outright banning DRM mechanisms. --Atanu P.S. -- The Web page has links under the Related Links: (provided by Branden Robinson) sections that lead to 404 Not Found on the server messages. Can that be fixed please? ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Atanu Datta wrote: P.S. -- The Web page has links under the Related Links: (provided by Branden Robinson) sections that lead to 404 Not Found on the server messages. Can that be fixed please? Unfortunately, Branden has moved on to other things in north carolina, and I haven't seen him around in years, so I suggest you look instead at /usr/share/common-licenses/GFDL-1.2 I'll see if I can fix that. manoj -- Mix's Law: There is nothing more permanent than a temporary building. There is nothing more permanent than a temporary tax. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: On Thursday 02 October 2008 00:55:21 Atanu Datta wrote: All GNU documentation, including that of GNU make, are released under GNU FDL. May I know why Debian Free Software Guidelines considers it non-free? http://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml I am not sure how current it is, but Manoj can clarify that. It is a rather poetic display of the clash between FSF's and Debian's interpretation of what freedom should be. :) Debian's points do matter, legally speaking, but if you take a step back and see what is happening, it sometimes makes you shake your head. That draft was never issued by the Debian project. However, there was a general resolution, and Debian has concluded that the GFDL is a free license as long as there are no invariant bits. Any documentation under the GFDL with invariant part are deemd to be non free. Most GNU docs have front and back matter that cannot be removed; this violates the DFSG. I have left the draft position statement around mostly for historical reasons; it did play a part in the general resolution. manoj ps: http://www.debian.org/social_contract http://www.debian.org/social_contract#guidelines -- It is no wonder that people are so horrible when they start life as children. Kingsley Amis Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] RMS Says Cloud Computing Is Trap
Hi all, Interesting discussion. You might want to have a look at Project Caroline. Its an open platform which will let anyone host their own SaaS platform, does not lock-in into any particular technology or language or vendor, its source code is completely open and follows open standards. http://research.sun.com/projects/caroline/ On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 12:40 AM, Anupam Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Oct 1, 2008 at 3:03 PM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I am disagreeing is with the FOSS world not attempting to even touch the technology because the closed source business model is the only one we see. The technology is really attractive, and there is no doubt that if the right FOSS business model is found, it would benefit a lot of people without compromising the software freedom that we have today. Exactly. Maybe opening up the data storage and exchange formats is part of the key. For example, gmail allows pop/smtp access, which means that your data is not be locked inside the gmail jail, even if the software is not free. Does that make it more acceptable than, say, hotmail? -- Anupam ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ -- Angad Singh http://blogs.sun.com/angad Sun Campus Ambassador Tech Lead ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Defeating os fingerprinting
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Arun SAG writes: Hi, I want to defeat os fingerprinting, especially nmap's os fingerprintinghttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS_fingerprintingcapabilities,By doing a little research on the internet i found some kernel patches (ippersonality, stealth patch)...but they are all for 2.4.x kernels and i am using fedora9 which uses 2.6.x kernel Also i learned that by enabling NAT and by doing packet mangling with iptables we can confuse the finger printing software.. I want to know how to enable NAT and how to enable packet mangling with ip tables Check out the Netfilter documentation page[1]. And after going through the basic documentation, check out iptables(8) manpage :). References: [1] - http://netfilter.org/documentation/index.html Ashish - -- () ascii ribbon campaign - against HTML e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments ·-- ·- ·--- ·- ···- ·- ·--·-· --· -- ·- ·· ·-·· ·-·-·- -·-· --- -- % dig +short cname cdac.in @::1 ms.gov.in -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkjj6kMACgkQHy+EEHYuXnSJSwCg8fm7oIHBM/JQmpsUgpJGqRKz rpQAn0XcOxnIFqwpte2SeZ9U5ad3oXFA =qTOG -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
[ilugd] Determining total bandwidth use by a network interface
Hi all, Is there a method to figure out how much data has been handled by a particular network interface on a machine since a new OS was installed or over a given span of time? The machine *has* rebooted a few times over the last year, so any logs that are temporary are gone now. It runs Ubuntu Feisty. Do NICs themselves store this data in some form? Could the the OS do so without having switched on any explicit logging? In either case, what would be a good tool to use to do this? Cheers Viksit ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Determining total bandwidth use by a network interface
I think you need Network monitor desklet =- right click on gnome-panel ==- Add to panel ===- Network Monitor =- Add This will give information of network activity and received data.. On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 3:53 AM, Viksit Gaur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Is there a method to figure out how much data has been handled by a particular network interface on a machine since a new OS was installed or over a given span of time? The machine *has* rebooted a few times over the last year, so any logs that are temporary are gone now. It runs Ubuntu Feisty. Do NICs themselves store this data in some form? Could the the OS do so without having switched on any explicit logging? In either case, what would be a good tool to use to do this? Cheers Viksit ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ -- ┌───[ Narendra Sisodiya ]──┐ │ http://narendra.techfandu.org │ http://www.lug-iitd.org └[ +91-93790-75930 ]──┘ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
BTW, Canonical/Ubuntu started a new upstream report today (though I don't know how much to read into this as of now): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/UpstreamReport https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+upstreamreport -Shantz -- I didn't do it, nobody saw me do it, U can't prove anything - Bart Simpson http://blog.shantanugoel.com http://tech.shantanugoel.com ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Determining total bandwidth use by a network interface
--- On Thu, 10/2/08, narendra sisodiya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think you need Network monitor desklet Thanks. I was talking more in terms of a command line access method though - this is a server that doesn't run X. Also, does the network monitor app keep track of ALL data I/O, ever? Or is it limited by certain factors? Cheers Viksit On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 3:53 AM, Viksit Gaur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, Is there a method to figure out how much data has been handled by a particular network interface on a machine since a new OS was installed or over a given span of time? The machine *has* rebooted a few times over the last year, so any logs that are temporary are gone now. It runs Ubuntu Feisty. Do NICs themselves store this data in some form? Could the the OS do so without having switched on any explicit logging? In either case, what would be a good tool to use to do this? Cheers Viksit ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ -- ┌───[ Narendra Sisodiya ]──┐ │ http://narendra.techfandu.org │ http://www.lug-iitd.org └[ +91-93790-75930 ]──┘ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Wed, Oct 01 2008, shantanu goel wrote: BTW, Canonical/Ubuntu started a new upstream report today (though I don't know how much to read into this as of now): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/UpstreamReporthttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+upstreamreport Yeah. I think this is a good thing. So greg's slides did have a positive effect. manoj -- The rule on staying alive as a program manager is to give 'em a number or give 'em a date, but never give 'em both at once. Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.golden-gryphon.com/ 1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B 924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Determining total bandwidth use by a network interface
Viksit Gaur [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do NICs themselves store this data in some form? Could the the OS do so without having switched on any explicit logging? The proc system keeps track of RX/TX packets until reboot. Readable in: /sbin/ifconfig eth0 |grep X But it cycles at a maximum of x packets though, where x is related to 32bit size (not sure of details and if it is different these days or varies with 64 bit kernels etc). In either case, what would be a good tool to use to do this? vnstat is a very light package that will collect those stats. But you have to install it first. vnstat can be inaccurate if you keep switching the machine off before it can process sampled data enough. PJ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Canonical Not A Great Contributor
On Thu, Oct 2, 2008 at 6:08 AM, Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: On Wed, Oct 01 2008, shantanu goel wrote: BTW, Canonical/Ubuntu started a new upstream report today (though I don't know how much to read into this as of now): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Upstream/UpstreamReporthttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+upstreamreport Yeah. I think this is a good thing. So greg's slides did have a positive effect. manoj It seems that the report has been in preparation for some time, as the last edit was 25th Sept 2008. They might be just looking for right moment -- Greg's talk may be ;-) [Oracle: Sorry, kid. You got the gift, but it looks like you're waiting for something. ] But if they do do it, I guess that would be the best thing. Swapnil PS: There was an IBM Ad: What are you doing? I am ideating. Ideating on what? That I have not ideated yet! ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] Is it illegal to redistribute RHEL? Open Letter To Linux For You India print Magzine India
2008/9/30 Sudhanwa Jogalekar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It is really unfortunate to know that people of CEO level are not able to understand the Trade Marks and Licenses. I believe what you meant was Trademarks and Copyrights. You can have Copyright License (GPL is one such) and Trademark License (what RHEL has). Copyrights are used to protect software and a copyright license is considered Free (as in Freedom) if it allows everyone who receive a copy of the program to use, study, change and distribute (modified or unmodified) copies of that program. All the components of RHEL is Free Software. But the collection distributed by Red Hat in CDs or DVDs also have a license. You can think of it as a collection of poems in the public domain. Even though individual poems remain in the public domain the collector has a copyright over the collection. Now trademarks are something different. It is used to protect brands. It ensures that you get what you think you are getting. RHEL name and logos are trademarked by Red Hat. That means if you see RHEL with Red Hat logos you can be sure it is from Red Hat. In the same way Mozilla Corporation own trademarks to Firefox. You need a license from the owner of the trademark (in the same way as copyright) to use that brand. CentOS removed the name and logos from RHEL and is distributing the same collection. In the same way Debian changed Firefox name to Iceweasel. Trademarks does not restricts the Freedoms mentioned in the Free Software definition. Btw please avoid using the term ipr. http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/not-ipr.html It implies either you are confused or you want to confuse everyone. Cheers Praveen -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് GPLv2 I know my rights; I want my phone call! DRM What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
