Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Thursday 24 July 2008 16:58:04 Sandip Bhattacharya wrote: +++ Raj Mathur [22/07/08 18:46 +0530]: On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Smruti wrote: 1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which is how will he get the distro. IANAL, but it's legal to re-distribute RHEL since RH relies on trademark rather than copyright to protect its operating systems. So you can re-distribute it, but your recipient can't use it since s/he would be violating Red Hat's trademarks by doing so. Perhaps someone from RH on this list could give us accurate information? Right, I would also like to know, that since the application themselves are GPLed, is using the trademark argument a mechanism to subvert the rights given in the licence itself? I think the Debian folks had a long talk with the Firefox people on something similar before going the whole Iceweasel way. - Sandip Based on this thread's discussion I asked the RH India spokesperson some questions. Following are the details: --- Q: Although we’re aware of free (as in beer) RHEL alternatives like CentOS, what if I opt to use RHEL without buying a subscription? Is that 'legally' possible? A: RHEL is open source software governed by GPL licensing. As per the GPL terms it is freely available on the Internet for download and use. Since this would be free download without subscription, it would not cover any support, updates or any of the benefits that a subscription would entitle. Once the subscription period ends, unless it is renewed again, the service support ceases. However, the customer can still continue using the product. One thing I’d like to bring fourth for subscribers is that Red Hat extends the Red Hat Open Source Assurance program, which safeguards customers who are developing and deploying open source solutions from legal harm. You can get more information about the purchase and usage of the RHEL subscription for India in Section 3.1 and Section 5 of the Enterprise Agreement [www.redhat.com/licenses/Enterprise_Agr_India.pdf]. Q. Let’s assume I’ve been an RHEL subscriber. I then choose to discontinue it, well aware that I won’t get security updates (having already made up my mind to get the security updates from CentOS repositories). So, as per you, I can still keep RHEL on the system? A: Yes, this is one of the important benefits to the customer where he can continue using RHEL but, at the same time, he would lose the advantage of Red Hat support ecosystem. Q. I understand that RH artwork and logos are trademarked by Red Hat Inc. Does that stop me from freely sharing a copy with my friends like I do in the case of Fedora? A: The Red Hat artwork and logo are trademarked and cannot be used freely. Yes, the code can be shared, but it cannot be duplicated with the Red Hat logo. Q. Can you elaborate on the trademark policies in laymen’s terms? Essentially, what are the dos and don’ts? A: The trademark and logo are completely owned by Red Hat and any use would be illegal. --Atanu ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
i am member of th generation in question and i had trouble making out what was being said :P On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Mehul Ved [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:53 PM, neha sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello frnz...i ve been a membr of dis grp since long bt hv been a mere lurker yet..newayz m jus beginning off wid linux nd i ve xp installed on ma machine nd i want to install linux too , can u guyz tell me as to whch vrsion i shld go for nd whr wld i gt d same? hope to gt a response..thnk u! You can install ubuntu, mandriva, suse - these being the most beginner friendly. Then there are ubuntu based distros like linux mint and ubuntu ultimate, which have a lot of 'non-free' i.e. proprietory software which isn't found in ubuntu CD/DVD. And please read mailing list guidelines [quote] Use good understandable english. U mite b 3l33t, bt there r other wayz 2 sho that. [/quote] Source:- http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ -- Aditya Kumar Sharma ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 2008/7/23 Smruti : but I deduce from the FAQ that if you have a legitimate copy and you are a member of one of these groups you could distribute it for the cost of CD and handling. I wonder what this non-commercial thing is then for, if not for RHEL :-( -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIiGCfPrRvvODAENARArfgAJ9iOZEuSr2zSZKDoFaC2EX5a1kfjQCeO+ZE 8ZOXwQXo27VsJp4kbCXFl/c= =+gIN -END PGP SIGNATURE- Ofcourse you can, only after removing all the trademark symbols and not a copy of the CD set as it is. I too am confused now :-( Only things you can be sure is: a) buy a copy from Red Hat if you want support b) get CentOS if you don't care about support -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് GPLv2 I know my rights; I want my phone call! DRM What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 4:03 AM, Praveen A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Only things you can be sure is: a) buy a copy from Red Hat if you want support b) get CentOS if you don't care about support Agreed... -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
+++ Raj Mathur [22/07/08 18:46 +0530]: On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Smruti wrote: 1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which is how will he get the distro. IANAL, but it's legal to re-distribute RHEL since RH relies on trademark rather than copyright to protect its operating systems. So you can re-distribute it, but your recipient can't use it since s/he would be violating Red Hat's trademarks by doing so. Perhaps someone from RH on this list could give us accurate information? Right, I would also like to know, that since the application themselves are GPLed, is using the trademark argument a mechanism to subvert the rights given in the licence itself? I think the Debian folks had a long talk with the Firefox people on something similar before going the whole Iceweasel way. - Sandip -- Sandip Bhattacharya http://blog.sandipb.net ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 4:28 AM, Sandip Bhattacharya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right, I would also like to know, that since the application themselves are GPLed, is using the trademark argument a mechanism to subvert the rights given in the licence itself? I believe they can if they want to. Again...not a lawyer..yet as per my understandings a license can be superseded by another license provided they keep the superseded license intact. Still...would really appreciate an expert's opinion on this. I think the Debian folks had a long talk with the Firefox people on something similar before going the whole Iceweasel way. That's interesting! I switched to Debian recently. But hadn't given much of a thought to this Iceweasel. Digging some more found out some pretty interesting discussions. Thanks... Smruti -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 12:40 PM, Saurabh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Other EULAs I've read in the past, specifically prohibit redistribution of binaries. I think Novell made SUSE that way - you couldn't redistribute SUSE 10. Then they had to create OpenSuse to appease the community. Haven't seen the license you have mentioned here with prohibition of redistribution but it reminds me a license that Novell had released some time ago mentioning a disabling function inside the distro. It read... *...The Software may contain an automatic disabling mechanism that prevents its use after a certain period of time, so You should back up Your system and take other measures to prevent any loss of files or data... *Refer: Slashdot http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/19/1834219 I don't understand how does this clause fits in with the GPL. If we're going to divert ourselves into a licensing discussion, shouldn't we change the thread subject ;-) Agreed. :) Let's give it a rest now. Regards Smruti -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
Hi, On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 2:23 PM, neha sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello frnz...i ve been a membr of dis grp since long bt hv been a mere lurker yet..newayz m jus beginning off wid linux nd i ve xp installed on ma machine nd i want to install linux too , can u guyz tell me as to whch vrsion i shld go for nd whr wld i gt d same? hope to gt a response..thnk u! I would also suggest to try out Mint (http://www.linuxmint.com/index.php) Best of Ubuntu (Ubuntu repositories), elegant look and feel, etc. -- - Arjun Jain http://www.micc.unifi.it/~jain/ - ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
2008/7/22 Smruti [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I was going through the EULA of RHEL and found some interesting facts. Here is one of them. (A lot of you might have already gone through this. If so, will truly appreciate your inputs.) * .This EULA does not permit User to distribute the Programs or their components using Red Hat's trademarks, regardless of whether the copy has been modified. and they have given a trademark license for non commercial distribution and terms for commercial distribution. *Courtesy: Redhat http://www.redhat.com/licenses/rhel_rha_eula.html Now if we give somebody a copy of the RHEL (CD Set, the same way as its bought) , I don't know about others, but I clearly think it's a violation of this agreement which he or she has already agreed. From their trademark FAQ http://www.redhat.com/f/pdf/corp/RH-3573_284204_TM_Gd.pdf On page 5 second column If you are an educational institution, a not-for-profit organization, a user group, or an individual affiliated with or employed by any of those organizations, Red Hat grants you a trademark license with respect to the RED HAT mark for use with the non-commercial redistribution of Red Hat(R) Enterprise Linux(R) in the form you electronically downloaded it from our FTP site or other authorized electronic download sites or as copied from an original disk from Red Hat or its authorized distributors (either from the boxed set or delivered directly to you by Red Hat or an authorized distributor). We consider non-commercial redistribution to be any distribution for which you charge no more than the cost of replicating the CD and a reasonable handling fee. IANL, but I deduce from the FAQ that if you have a legitimate copy and you are a member of one of these groups you could distribute it for the cost of CD and handling. -- പ്രവീണ് അരിമ്പ്രത്തൊടിയില് GPLv2 I know my rights; I want my phone call! DRM What use is a phone call, if you are unable to speak? (as seen on /.) Join The DRM Elimination Crew Now! http://fci.wikia.com/wiki/Anti-DRM-Campaign ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Wed, Jul 23, 2008 at 5:29 AM, Praveen A [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you are an educational institution, a not-for-profit organization, a user group, or an individual affiliated with or employed by any of those organizations, Red Hat grants you a trademark license with respect to the RED HAT mark for use with the non-commercial redistribution of Red Hat(R) Enterprise Linux(R) in the form you electronically downloaded it from our FTP site or other authorized electronic download sites or as copied from an original disk from Red Hat or its authorized distributors (either from the boxed set or delivered directly to you by Red Hat or an authorized distributor). We consider non-commercial redistribution to be any distribution for which you charge no more than the cost of replicating the CD and a reasonable handling fee. Reasonably convinced. But if you keep on reading the last line of the Page says; *..This permission is not applicable to Red Hat(R) Enterprise Linux(R) or any Red Hat subscription product. *Now again I am confused. What do they really want to convey?? IANL, Me neither. but I deduce from the FAQ that if you have a legitimate copy and you are a member of one of these groups you could distribute it for the cost of CD and handling. Ofcourse you can, only after removing all the trademark symbols and not a copy of the CD set as it is. Regards Smruti -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
Thank you everyone and i guess i will go with ubuntu. On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 9:18 AM, Arun Khan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Smruti wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions and put it on our website? Put a link to the above material instead of reinventing the wheel. -- Arun Khan ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
Thank you everyone and i guess i will go with ubuntu. Good choice. Months later, when you are more familiar with Linux and try some other distro, you'll wonder why all of them aren't as easy to install and use as Ubuntu :) If you aren't in a hurry, you can visit https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ and have them ship you a free CD. It comes in from Singapore, yet arrives within a week. Not wanting to start a flame war - I use Fedora for all my work. But I still have Ubuntu on my spare laptop, to turn to when all else fails. ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Asif Zaheer wrote: Use REDHAT Enterprise Linux 5.0 or 4 Update 6. Er, you can't get that with updates for free as far as I know. I won't suggest another distribution, let Neha go with whatever distribution s/he has decided on. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:45:47 +0530 Saurabh Jain [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you everyone and i guess i will go with ubuntu. Good choice. Months later, when you are more familiar with Linux and try some other distro, you'll wonder why all of them aren't as easy to install and use as Ubuntu :) If you aren't in a hurry, you can visit https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ and have them ship you a free CD. It comes in from Singapore, yet arrives within a week. [...] Probably time to bring this up again. If you are based in Delhi, you can pick up a CD of most recent distributions (currently, we have FC9, and Ubuntu CDs and DVDs) from Sarai, CSDS, at 29 Rajpur Road, for the cost of the media (for free, if we have free copies left). Please arrange with me via email if planning on coming out here. We would also be glad to download, and burn for you CDs of almost any other Linux distribution, with advance notice. Regards, Gora ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:20 PM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Asif Zaheer wrote: Use REDHAT Enterprise Linux 5.0 or 4 Update 6. Er, you can't get that with updates for free as far as I know. I won't suggest another distribution, let Neha go with whatever distribution s/he has decided on. Regards, -- Raju Updates I am still wondering if we can GET RHEL for free or not. Can we get the complete RHEL distro (in binary not source) in the first place, for free, without violating any laws?? -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tue, 22 Jul 2008 04:07:07 -0700 Smruti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Updates I am still wondering if we can GET RHEL for free or not. Can we get the complete RHEL distro (in binary not source) in the first place, for free, without violating any laws?? [...] Most certainly one can. Here are two avenues: (a) Have someone from Redhat give you a copy. (b) Use CentOS Regards, Gora ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 5:21 AM, Gora Mohanty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Most certainly one can. Here are two avenues: I have a few questions in mind on the below mentioned suggestions. (a) Have someone from Redhat give you a copy. 1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which is how will he get the distro. 2. Is it legal for someone from Redhat(assuming he has the access to the distro) to distribute it for free without any Redhat agreement or restrictions(in short as FOSS) (b) Use CentOS Acceptable. Yet, still not RHEL! Regards, Gora Thanks for the response anyways. :) -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
(a) Have someone from Redhat give you a copy. 1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which is how will he get the distro. RHEL can be distributed to anyone and it is legal. Redhat will provide support only if you buy a support package from them, which is how they earn money, but its perfectly legal to distribute RHEL. 2. Is it legal for someone from Redhat(assuming he has the access to the distro) to distribute it for free without any Redhat agreement or restrictions(in short as FOSS) I'm sure employees distributing unreleased version of redhat would land in some trouble, but distributing released versions shouldn't be a problem. Again, I don't know the contents of the employement agreement at Redhat so I'm just guessing this. (b) Use CentOS Acceptable. Yet, still not RHEL! Yes, its not RHEL, but CentOS is based on the corresponding RHEL and should be binary compatible. Atleast that's what they claim. CentOS takes an RHEL copy and removes mentions of the company's name and repackages the distribution. -- Sharninder http://nomadicrider.com/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which is how will he get the distro. It is illegal. The binaries are copyright protected. The source is re-distributable. The Red Hat logos and trademarks embedded into their product can also not be redistributed. 2. Is it legal for someone from Redhat(assuming he has the access to the distro) to distribute it for free without any Redhat agreement or restrictions(in short as FOSS) I don't think so, though I would like a RedHat guy to comment. The RHEL EULA prohibits you from using RHEL unless someone from RH gives you a license, or written permission to do so. (b) Use CentOS Acceptable. Yet, still not RHEL! Not RHEL. Only better :) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Smruti wrote: 1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which is how will he get the distro. IANAL, but it's legal to re-distribute RHEL since RH relies on trademark rather than copyright to protect its operating systems. So you can re-distribute it, but your recipient can't use it since s/he would be violating Red Hat's trademarks by doing so. Perhaps someone from RH on this list could give us accurate information? 2. Is it legal for someone from Redhat(assuming he has the access to the distro) to distribute it for free without any Redhat agreement or restrictions(in short as FOSS) RH offers a 30-day evaluation account, which allows you to download RHEL, as far as I remember, so you can use RHEL legally for 30 days at least. Again, best if someone from RH confirms/denies -- I am neither a lawyer nor speaking for RH. In any case, at the moment RHEL isn't a viable option for a home user who doesn't want to pay for Linux. Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Smruti wrote: 1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which is how will he get the distro. IANAL, but it's legal to re-distribute RHEL since RH relies on trademark rather than copyright to protect its operating systems. So you can re-distribute it, but your recipient can't use it since s/he would be violating Red Hat's trademarks by doing so. Perhaps someone from RH on this list could give us accurate information? Well, since everyone else differs on this, I'll take my words back. I might be wrong in assuming that it was legal to distribute RHEL. -- http://nomadicrider.com/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Saurabh Jain wrote: 1. Is it legal for someone to distribute a Redhat Enterprise Linux copy that he bought from Redhat without any Redhat agreement or restrictions? If yes, than again I get back to my old question which is how will he get the distro. It is illegal. The binaries are copyright protected. The source is re-distributable. The Red Hat logos and trademarks embedded into their product can also not be redistributed. Just because the binaries are copyright doesn't mean they can't be redistributed, otherwise no one would ever be able to distribute any software at all -- all software is copyrighted :) Since the licence (not the copyright) determines redistribution rights, and all the binaries in RHEL are FOSS licensed, it is perfectly legal to redistribute them. Don't know about redistributing trademarked stuff (I don't think there should be an issue but again, I'm not a lawyer). Regards, -- Raju -- Raj Mathur[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://kandalaya.org/ GPG: 78D4 FC67 367F 40E2 0DD5 0FEF C968 D0EF CC68 D17F PsyTrance Chill: http://schizoid.in/ || It is the mind that moves ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IANAL, but it's legal to re-distribute RHEL since RH relies on trademark rather than copyright to protect its operating systems. So you can re-distribute it, but your recipient can't use it since s/he would be violating Red Hat's trademarks by doing so. Still not clear about the redistribution part but even if you can, what's the point of having something if you can't use it?? -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Smruti wrote: On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: IANAL, but it's legal to re-distribute RHEL since RH relies on trademark rather than copyright to protect its operating systems. So you can re-distribute it, but your recipient can't use it since s/he would be violating Red Hat's trademarks by doing so. Still not clear about the redistribution part but even if you can, what's the point of having something if you can't use it?? Choose something you can use w/o any encumbrance or contact Redhat for clarification on usage of copies of RHEL. -- Arun Khan ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 6:41 AM, Raj Mathur [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just because the binaries are copyright doesn't mean they can't be redistributed, otherwise no one would ever be able to distribute any software at all -- all software is copyrighted :) Since the licence (not the copyright) determines redistribution rights, and all the binaries in RHEL are FOSS licensed, it is perfectly legal to redistribute them. I was going through the EULA of RHEL and found some interesting facts. Here is one of them. (A lot of you might have already gone through this. If so, will truly appreciate your inputs.) * .This EULA does not permit User to distribute the Programs or their components using Red Hat's trademarks, regardless of whether the copy has been modified. *Courtesy: Redhat http://www.redhat.com/licenses/rhel_rha_eula.html Now if we give somebody a copy of the RHEL (CD Set, the same way as its bought) , I don't know about others, but I clearly think it's a violation of this agreement which he or she has already agreed. -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
.This EULA does not permit User to distribute the Programs or their components using Red Hat's trademarks, regardless of whether the copy has been modified. *Courtesy: Redhat http://www.redhat.com/licenses/rhel_rha_eula.html Thanks Smruti. I was going to point the list members to the EULA link myself. The GPL only talks about the source code. What someone compiles out of the source, is their work. How the authors of this binary work licenses that work, is their prerogative. The GPL only dictates that the source must accompany the binary. You can charge for the binary, and copy protect it. GPL v3 of course has interesting caveats, which prevent Tivo-isation, to use a word coined by Stallman. To put it trivially, you can copy protect the binary, as long as you don't prevent the user from removing your binary firmware from the device altogether, and putting in their binaries. The RedHat EULA is actually pretty accommodative. Other EULAs I've read in the past, specifically prohibit redistribution of binaries. I think Novell made SUSE that way - you couldn't redistribute SUSE 10. Then they had to create OpenSuse to appease the community. If we're going to divert ourselves into a licensing discussion, shouldn't we change the thread subject ;-) ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:53 PM, neha sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello frnz...i ve been a membr of dis grp since long bt hv been a mere lurker yet..newayz m jus beginning off wid linux nd i ve xp installed on ma machine nd i want to install linux too , can u guyz tell me as to whch vrsion i shld go for nd whr wld i gt d same? hope to gt a response..thnk u! You can install ubuntu, mandriva, suse - these being the most beginner friendly. Then there are ubuntu based distros like linux mint and ubuntu ultimate, which have a lot of 'non-free' i.e. proprietory software which isn't found in ubuntu CD/DVD. And please read mailing list guidelines [quote] Use good understandable english. U mite b 3l33t, bt there r other wayz 2 sho that. [/quote] Source:- http://kandalaya.org/guidelines.html ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Mehul Ved [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:53 PM, neha sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello frnz...i ve been a membr of dis grp since long bt hv been a mere lurker yet..newayz m jus beginning off wid linux nd i ve xp installed on ma machine nd i want to install linux too , can u guyz tell me as to whch vrsion i shld go for nd whr wld i gt d same? hope to gt a response..thnk u! First of all, the answer to your question: Use Ubuntu or openSuSE. Other distro proponents on this list would probably kill me for saying this, but I think these two would be the easiest for a newbie to start with. Secondly: Wow ! Does the young generation these days actually understand the language you wrote in ? I had to read a couple of words twice to understand the email. -- Sharninder http://nomadicrider.com/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Sharninder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Secondly: Wow ! Does the young generation these days actually understand the language you wrote in ? I had to read a couple of words twice to understand the email. Yeah, we get used to it. Maybe some people should create scripts to automatically convert such language to 'proper' english for the SMS challenged :p ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Monday 21 Jul 2008, Sharninder wrote: Secondly: Wow ! Does the young generation these days actually understand the language you wrote in ? I had to read a couple of words twice to understand the email. Scary isn't it? In a few years, when this gen moves into the work force, this will creep into official letters and documents. -- Arun Khan ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:53 PM, neha sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: hello frnz...i ve been a membr of dis grp since long bt hv been a mere lurker yet..newayz m jus beginning off wid linux nd i ve xp installed on ma machine nd i want to install linux too , can u guyz tell me as to whch vrsion i shld go for nd whr wld i gt d same? hope to gt a response..thnk u! All, Discussions of the subject Which flavour|distro have been one of the oldest topics to be still popping up in mailing lists. Understandably it is important to know what to use especially for a new comer. But everytime this question ends up with the same stereotype novell vs. canonical war. Can't we have some sort of a comparission chart such as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions and put it on our website? I think rather than giving random gyan to the already confused...it will be better to give him the information he or she needs to make an informed decision. Any suggestions??? -- The greatest pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do. ~Walter Bagehot ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
On Tuesday 22 Jul 2008, Smruti wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions and put it on our website? Put a link to the above material instead of reinventing the wheel. -- Arun Khan ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
Re: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose
Hi Nena, Use REDHAT Enterprise Linux 5.0 or 4 Update 6. Regards Zaheer. --- On Mon, 7/21/08, neha sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: neha sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ilugd] which flavour of linux to choose To: ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org Date: Monday, July 21, 2008, 7:23 AM hello frnz...i ve been a membr of dis grp since long bt hv been a mere lurker yet..newayz m jus beginning off wid linux nd i ve xp installed on ma machine nd i want to install linux too , can u guyz tell me as to whch vrsion i shld go for nd whr wld i gt d same? hope to gt a response..thnk u! ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/ ___ ilugd mailinglist -- ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org http://frodo.hserus.net/mailman/listinfo/ilugd Archives at: http://news.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.linux.delhi http://www.mail-archive.com/ilugd@lists.linux-delhi.org/
