Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Xuo Guoto via ipv6-wg]

Thanks every one for suggestions. I found one more resource which is more in 
tune with what I was looking for:

https://blog.apnic.net/2023/04/04/ipv6-architecture-and-subnetting-guide-for-network-engineers-and-operators/

X.

Sent with [Proton Mail](https://proton.me/) secure email.

--- Original Message ---
On Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 9:31 PM, Fearghas Mckay  
wrote:

> On 31 Jul 2023 at 11:19:29, Sander Steffann  wrote:
>
>> See if you can find a friendly local person in your local Network Operators 
>> Group (NOG) to help you a bit. NOGs are a great place for those looking to 
>> learn. And otherwise feel free to contact me off-list. I’ll happily get you 
>> started.
>
> UKNOF and NetLDN would be good places to start.
>
> https://uknof.uk/
>
> https://netldn.uk/
>
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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Fearghas Mckay]

 On 31 Jul 2023 at 11:19:29, Sander Steffann  wrote:

> See if you can find a friendly local person in your local Network
> Operators Group (NOG) to help you a bit. NOGs are a great place for those
> looking to learn. And otherwise feel free to contact me off-list. I’ll
> happily get you started.
>

UKNOF and NetLDN would be good places to start.

https://uknof.uk/

https://netldn.uk/

f
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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Sander Steffann]

Hi,

> We are not using IGP as of now, its a small NOC with a couple of devices. 

I would strongly suggest using an IGP (probably OSPF) even in a small setup. It 
will allow you much greater flexibility and redundancy with very little effort.

See if you can find a friendly local person in your local Network Operators 
Group (NOG) to help you a bit. NOGs are a great place for those looking to 
learn. And otherwise feel free to contact me off-list. I’ll happily get you 
started.

Cheers!
Sander


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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Xuo Guoto via ipv6-wg]

Thanks for your input Michael. The vagueness of the problem description 
reflects my own confusion.

We are not using IGP as of now, its a small NOC with a couple of devices. 


--- Original Message ---
On Monday, July 31st, 2023 at 12:38 AM, Michael Richardson 
 wrote:


> Each router needs a /128 as a loopback address to use.
> I assign them all from a single /64 for that purpose.

Ok.

> Many of your p2p ethernet links between sites/routers might not 
> need prefixes at all.

This is not clear.

> > 2. How will we be assigning static address to (DNS?) 
> > servers?
> 
> 
> I don't understand the question.

My question was that I have a /35 (say 2001:db8:2000::/35), and a router with 
three interfaces, one a p2p link with upstream, rest two interfaces are 
connected to two different segments as shown below:

 │
   ┌─┴───┐
   │ │
   │   Router│
   │ │
   └┬───┬┘
   A│   │ B
  ┌─┘   └───┐
  │ │
┌─┴───┐ ┌───┴──┐
│ CD  │   E │ F│
┌───┴┐ ┌──┴──┐   ┌──┴─┐ ┌──┴─┐
│  dns1  │ │   mail1 │   │  S1│ │S2  │
└┘ └─┘   └┘ └┘

In the diagram above what will be the ip address at points A to F? C-F are 
servers and need static ip address.

> Otherwise a static allocation
> from the /64 that the routers provide.

Can you please elaborate this?

Thanks for your patience and time. I hope the questions I am having will be 
shared by many and will be addressed in the guidelines when published!

X.

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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Michael Richardson]

Xuo Guoto via ipv6-wg  wrote:
> 1. How will we assign address to routers? Like will we should be
> assigning 2001:db8:2000::1/35 or 2001:db8:2000::1/64 for router

No.
Each router needs a /128 as a loopback address to use.
I assign them all from a single /64 for that purpose.
The /128s go into the your IGP.
Many of your p2p ethernet links between sites/routers might not need prefixes
at all.

> interface?  2. How will we be assigning static address to (DNS?)
> servers?

I don't understand the question.

> 2.1 One IP from /35?  2.2 An IP from the /64 assigned to

No.  Why would you be throwing /35s around?
If your DNS servers participate in IGP, then a /128 on a loopback interface,
assuming they have multiple interfaces works.  Otherwise a static allocation
from the /64 that the routers provide.

> We have three interfaces in the router with one facing upstream and is
> using a /127 assigned by the up stream provider, of the other two one
> iface is for servers and another for BNGs. How are ipv6 address
> allocated in these interfaces.

Statically?


--
Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-  *I*LIKE*TRAINS*





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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Xuo Guoto via ipv6-wg]

Hello all,

Resurrecting an old thread to share some experience when trying to start 
deploying ipv6 on a small London based ISP.

As a start we are deploying in  a test location which is setup as a "site". We 
have a /29 allocated and that's been divided into /32 for each site. Which is 
again divided into /35 for various functions in the NOC including for servers 
(DNS, Speed Test etc), subscriber allocation (/64 and a /56 per subscriber), 
loopback address etc.

There is sufficient guidelines and documentation to reach till this point. But 
from here on, it's pretty dark. Some of the question for which we have no clear 
guidelines are:

1. How will we assign address to routers? Like will we should be assigning 
2001:db8:2000::1/35 or 2001:db8:2000::1/64 for router interface? 
2. How will we be assigning static address to (DNS?) servers? 
2.1 One IP from /35?
2.2 An IP from the /64 assigned to router interface?
2.3 An IP from a different /64 but from same /35?   

In the case of 2.3 will the routing work?

We have three interfaces in the router with one facing upstream and is using a 
/127 assigned by the up stream provider, of the other two one iface is for 
servers and another for BNGs. How are ipv6 address allocated in these 
interfaces. 

There are not much (atleast not to my google fu) resources addressing these 
nuts and bolts configuration information. 

I am writing this to share a from the trenches perspective to this discussion

Thanks
X. 

--- Original Message ---
On Wednesday, June 14th, 2023 at 9:38 PM, Paolo Volpato via ipv6-wg 
 wrote:


> Hi Wilhelm, All,
> 
> I have noticed that some people would be happy to cooperate to your idea of a 
> paper for IPv6 in enterprises (me included :-)
> Wonder if you have thought of any rough plan to start and organize the work.
> 
> Many thanks
> Paolo


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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Paolo Volpato via ipv6-wg]

Hi Wilhelm, All,

I have noticed that some people would be happy to cooperate to your idea of a 
paper for IPv6 in enterprises (me included :-)
Wonder if you have thought of any rough plan to start and organize the work.

Many thanks
Paolo

-Original Message-
From: Wilhelm Boeddinghaus  
Sent: Thursday, June 1, 2023 4:20 PM
To: Paolo Volpato 
Cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

Hi Paolo,

thanks for your help with this project.

Lack of budget is of course a problem. But if the IT departments could at least 
quantify the budget, this would help. If they have no idea how to start the 
project, a budget eastimation is not possible.

Best,

Wilhelm

Am 31.05.2023 um 08:42 schrieb Paolo Volpato via ipv6-wg:
> Hi Wilhelm,
>
> In addition, I would add that they also lack the budget to consider deploying 
> IPv6, meaning that enterprises don't consider IPv6 as a priority.
> At least, this is what we found during the editing of RFC 9386 on IPv6 
> deployment status.
>
> I would be happy to contribute to this effort.
>
> Best regards
> Paolo
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Wilhelm 
> Boeddinghaus
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 6:06 PM
> To: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
> Subject: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises
>
> Hi,
>
> at the end of my talk during the RIPE86 IPv6 working group I promised to 
> start work on a paper with clear guidance for enterprises to migrate their 
> networks to IPv6.
>
> We have often wondere why enterprises do not migrate to IPv6. One possible 
> answer is: They have no time and they lack knowledge. Many IT departments 
> don't have any spare time for reading RFCs.
>
>   From my understanding these IT departments don't need papers explaining the 
> many possibilites to choose from. They need very clear guidance and examples.
>
> I am looking for 3 to 4 people who would like to start working on this with 
> me.
>
> Peter Hessler contacted me during the meeting and he offered his help, time 
> and expertise for this project. Thank you, Peter.
>
> Best,
>
> Wilhelm
>
>

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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Aleksi Suhonen]

Hi,

On 6/1/23 17:21, Wilhelm Boeddinghaus wrote:

Hi Andreas,

if the government starts shutting down services with IPv4, the pressure 
for IPv6 will rise :-) There are no laws needed.
Many countries have some sort of equal access laws, that could be used 
to prevent shutting down IPv4 services.


My 2 cents,

--
Aleksi Suhonen

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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Gert Doering]

Hi,

On Sun, Jun 04, 2023 at 08:16:58PM +, Jordan A. Borgner wrote:
> What's very important too is to get the application developers on board.
> Advances in the software that uses the network (and gives it its reason
> to exist) is a crucial factor I think. If there are technical benefits
> that can be achieved using IPv6 but not Legacy IP (too tired to think of
> some now), you may feel a difference between IPv6 and Legacy IP at some
> point and the latter may become outpaced. So developers need to be
> convinced too. And taught about it.

Tried that.  There is no "killer feature" in IPv6, it's just plumbing
in a different colour.

And, to an application developer, dual-stack is lots of extra hassles...
so unless customers are making it a hard requirement (procurement
guidelines), it's much easier to just not bother and stick to IPv4-only.

(IPv6-only is similar to IPv4-only, but dual-stack, happy eyeballs, 
logging, filtering for v4 and v6, and all that is just extra nuisance)

Gert Doering
-- NetMaster
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG  Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Jordan A. Borgner]

On 6/3/23 12:33, Gert Doering wrote:
> So, what else can we do?

At the end a number of factors that make up the big picture must play
together to roll that stone up the hill, and all of them influence one
another, at least a bit. Compatibility to other networks, amount of
work to maintain the own network, demand on IPv6 products, better
offers of IPv6 products etc, you called it.

Making IPv4 expensive is one good step. An official renaming of IPv4
to "Legacy IP" or "IP Legacy", at least by the vendors, might be a good
psychological trick.

What's very important too is to get the application developers on board.
Advances in the software that uses the network (and gives it its reason
to exist) is a crucial factor I think. If there are technical benefits
that can be achieved using IPv6 but not Legacy IP (too tired to think of
some now), you may feel a difference between IPv6 and Legacy IP at some
point and the latter may become outpaced. So developers need to be
convinced too. And taught about it.

-- 
Jordan A. Borgner


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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Robin Flikkema via ipv6-wg]

Willing to contribute here also.

As many stated. IPv6 is mostly seen as costs now, together with not all people 
knowledgeable enough.

Practical examples might help loads of businesses. Personally I've developed 
many scripts for our company and similar companies to be able to setup 
dual-stack (or ipv6-only) properly.

Robin

Op 31 mei 2023 08:42 schreef Paolo Volpato via ipv6-wg :

Hi Wilhelm,

In addition, I would add that they also lack the budget to consider deploying 
IPv6, meaning that enterprises don't consider IPv6 as a priority.
At least, this is what we found during the editing of RFC 9386 on IPv6 
deployment status.

I would be happy to contribute to this effort.

Best regards
Paolo

-Original Message-
From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Wilhelm Boeddinghaus
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 6:06 PM
To: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

Hi,

at the end of my talk during the RIPE86 IPv6 working group I promised to start 
work on a paper with clear guidance for enterprises to migrate their networks 
to IPv6.

We have often wondere why enterprises do not migrate to IPv6. One possible 
answer is: They have no time and they lack knowledge. Many IT departments don't 
have any spare time for reading RFCs.

From my understanding these IT departments don't need papers explaining the 
many possibilites to choose from. They need very clear guidance and examples.

I am looking for 3 to 4 people who would like to start working on this with me.

Peter Hessler contacted me during the meeting and he offered his help, time and 
expertise for this project. Thank you, Peter.

Best,

Wilhelm


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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Gert Doering]

Hi,

On Sat, Jun 03, 2023 at 07:53:48PM +, Ole Troan (otroan) wrote:
> Thought experiment.
> IPv6 wasn?t invented.
> Would we be able to make IPv4 continue to roll down the hill for another 25 
> years?

Whether there's 3 or 4 layers of NAT won't matter much... everything
that is not TCP or UDP won't survive, but since The Browser Oligopol
seems to be set to move everything into QUIC anyway, we should be fine...

It will nicely kill everything that is not Cloud or Rendezvous-Server-
based, but there's quite a few parties outside that would consider this
a feature.

So yes.

Gert Doering
-- NetMaster
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG  Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Gert Doering]

Hi,

On Sat, Jun 03, 2023 at 07:00:48PM +0100, Nick Hilliard wrote:
> Gert Doering wrote on 03/06/2023 13:33:
> > So how do we get there?
> 
> We got where we are now because there are compelling reasons to deploy 
> ipv4, but not compelling reasons to deploy ipv6.  

On "the wild Internet", I agree with you - we're not at the point yet
where you can do fully without IPv4 (even if CGN'ed).

Going back to the Subject: of this thread, inside sufficiently large
Enterprise networks, the hidden costs of IPv4 (multiple layers of inside 
NAT44, lack of proper network visibility, much more complex debugging)
are sufficiently high that at least *some* networks already felt 
compelled to go IPv6-only, in their internal networks.

(Dual-stack is not very interesting on the inside)

So - how do we send out this message, so it can be heard and understood?

Gert Doering
-- NetMaster
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG  Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer
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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Nick Hilliard]

Gert Doering wrote on 03/06/2023 13:33:

So how do we get there?


We got where we are now because there are compelling reasons to deploy 
ipv4, but not compelling reasons to deploy ipv6.  IPv4 is the stone that 
rolled down the hill; ipv6 is the stone that, 25 years later, people are 
still trying to roll up the hill. What's surprising is that some people 
are still surprised that ipv6 won't roll itself up the hill after 25 
years of resolutely not doing this by itself.


> So, what else can we do?

Supportive / constructive mandates level out the upwards slope on the 
ipv6 hill, a little.  Destructive mandates - e.g. "governments should 
withdraw ipv4 services" - are more like suggestions to get out a digger 
and change the slope of the hill so that the boulder will roll up it. 
The only outcome from this sort of approach will be expense, a mixture 
of bemusement and rage from bystanders, and ultimate failure.


Nick

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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Gert Doering]

Hi,

On Fri, Jun 02, 2023 at 11:15:51PM +, Jordan A. Borgner wrote:
> Companies just need to _feel_ that IPv4 isn't going to get them very far
> anymore and that it's better to prepare for the future now because its
> better to have options rather than to need them when the time has come.

So how do we get there?

I think we tried "preaching" for a very long time (did not work),
"help with procurement policies so at least equipment vendors get
the message" (did work to some extent), "mandating" (US Govt, but
enterprises will only take note for those bits that they want to
sell to the US Govt)...

The market has tried "make IPv4 insanely expensive", and corporate
mergers/acquisitions have tried "make IPv4 operationally very hard,
with packets going through 3 NAT44 devices *inside* the corp network",
and even that has failed to send the message "IPv4 has no future".

So, what else can we do?

Gert Doering
-- IPv6 preacher man
-- 
have you enabled IPv6 on something today...?

SpaceNet AG  Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Michael Emmer
Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. Grundner-Culemann
D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen)
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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Jordan A. Borgner]

On 6/1/23 15:06, Nick Hilliard wrote:
> Which government service would you suggest shutting down on ipv4?

I can't imagine any government to require anyone to support IPv6, one
particular protocol, explicitly, and even less to require anyone to shut
down still-working IPv4. If you can't even convince technical people to
migrate, how will you get majorities in a Parliament for this? This is
just not going to happen, hands down.

Although it may be a good thing in this particular case, I think
requiring usage of one particular technology by law (a protocol or
something else) is dangerous. Imaginge they made a law that required
companies to adopt IPv4 and shut down their X.25 or whatever they had
before. Maybe it would have been nice to have such a law in the 80s and
90s, but what about today? It's hard enough to get rid of a protocol
that's not required by law.

Companies just need to _feel_ that IPv4 isn't going to get them very far
anymore and that it's better to prepare for the future now because its
better to have options rather than to need them when the time has come.

-- 
Jordan A. Borgner


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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Nick Hilliard]

Benedikt Merkl via ipv6-wg wrote on 01/06/2023 15:25:
The government still relies on their Fax machines, so not sure if that 
is going to happen soon. But you have my support on shutting v4 services. :)


Which government service would you suggest shutting down on ipv4? The 
online tax submission portal? Pension services?


Nick

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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Dan Oachs]

I know this is not quite what you mean, but there are IPv6 only government
websites already.  :)  Such as https://clintonwhitehouse2.archives.gov

--Dan


On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 9:21 AM Wilhelm Boeddinghaus 
wrote:

> Hi Andreas,
>
> if the government starts shutting down services with IPv4, the pressure
> for IPv6 will rise :-) There are no laws needed.
>
> Best,
>
> Wilhelm
> Am 31.05.2023 um 08:52 schrieb Springob, Andreas (IIT-CSS/Network &
> Identity Solutions):
>
> Hi Wilhelm,
>
> Lot of things were said and all are correct. Lack of knowledge, budget,
> priority, interest, projects, success. It might be rather an approach for
> RIPE and other RIRs to get in contact with governmental units, setting up
> legislation as with the office of management and budget in the US:
> https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-21-07.pdf /
> "Completing the Transition to Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)"
>
> I believe that no government will successfully force companies by laws,
> but it'll be rather an idea to start with governmental department and
> public services first things. Submitting companies' annual financial
> statements, registering cars, health related information to public
> insurances via IPV6 only would massively help. But that's a long road. RIRs
> might help with consulting for free / small charge, but without governments
> and legislation, companies do what they're supposed to... earning revenue
> with minimum effort.
>
> If there's any request for support in a small working group, you can
> contact me for further discussions.
>
>
>
>
> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>
> Best regards,
>
> Andreas Springob
>
> Senior IT Consultant
>
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> -Original Message-
> From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Paolo Volpato via
> ipv6-wg
> Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2023 08:42
> To: Wilhelm Boeddinghaus 
> Cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
> Subject: Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises
>
> Caution: This email originated from outside of the ALDI-HOFER
> organisation. If the content looks suspicious, please report this email via
> the "Phish Alert Report" button or the ServiceNow request "Report Security
> Event".
> Do not click on any links or open attachments unless you recognise the
> sender's email address and you are sure the content is safe.
>
>
> Hi Wilhelm,
>
> In addition, I would add that they also lack the budget to consider
> deploying IPv6, meaning that enterprises don't consider IPv6 as a priority.
> At least, this is what we found during the editing of RFC 9386 on IPv6
> deployment status.
>
> I would be happy to contribute to this effort.
>
> Best regards
> Paolo
>
> -Original Message-
> From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Wilhelm Boeddinghaus
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 6:06 PM
> To: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
> Subject: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises
>
> Hi,
>
> at the end of my talk during the RIPE86 IPv6 working group I promi

Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Benedikt Merkl via ipv6-wg]

The government still relies on their Fax machines, so not sure if that is going 
to happen soon. But you have my support on shutting v4 services. :)


On June 1, 2023 4:21:40 PM GMT+02:00, Wilhelm Boeddinghaus 
 wrote:
>Hi Andreas,
>
>if the government starts shutting down services with IPv4, the pressure for 
>IPv6 will rise :-) There are no laws needed.
>
>Best,
>
>Wilhelm
>
>Am 31.05.2023 um 08:52 schrieb Springob, Andreas (IIT-CSS/Network & Identity 
>Solutions):
>> Hi Wilhelm,
>> 
>> Lot of things were said and all are correct. Lack of knowledge, budget, 
>> priority, interest, projects, success. It might be rather an approach for 
>> RIPE and other RIRs to get in contact with governmental units, setting up 
>> legislation as with the office of management and budget in the US:
>> https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-21-07.pdf / 
>> "Completing the Transition to Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)"
>> 
>> I believe that no government will successfully force companies by laws, but 
>> it'll be rather an idea to start with governmental department and public 
>> services first things. Submitting companies' annual financial statements, 
>> registering cars, health related information to public insurances via IPV6 
>> only would massively help. But that's a long road. RIRs might help with 
>> consulting for free / small charge, but without governments and legislation, 
>> companies do what they're supposed to... earning revenue with minimum effort.
>> 
>> If there's any request for support in a small working group, you can contact 
>> me for further discussions.
>> 
>> 
>> Mit freundlichen Grüßen
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Andreas Springob
>> 
>> Senior IT Consultant
>> 
>> *ALDI International Services SE & Co. oHG*
>> 
>> IIT Corporate Shared Services - Network & Identity Solutions
>> 
>> Mintarder Straße 36-40
>> 
>> 45481 Mülheim an der Ruhr
>> 
>> Germany
>> 
>> Tel: +49 208 2072-4072
>> 
>>  * SAVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT*
>> 
>> 
>> /Diese Nachricht einschließlich Anlagen ist ausschließlich für den 
>> angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt und kann privilegierte,
>> vertrauliche oder sonst geschützte Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie 
>> diese Nachricht irrtümlich erhalten, sind Ihnen
>> Kenntnisnahme, Vervielfältigung, Weiterleitung oder sonstige Verwertung 
>> ausdrücklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie
>> den oben angegebenen Absender und löschen Sie die empfangene Nachricht.
>> 
>> This message including the enclosures is intended exclusively for the 
>> recipient stated and can contain privileged, confidential or
>> otherwise protected information. Should you receive this message by mistake, 
>> it is strictly prohibited for you to use, disseminate,
>> forward, print or copy this message. Please inform the sender mentioned 
>> above and delete the message received.
>> /
>> 
>> *ALDI International Services SE & Co. oHG*,Mintarder Straße 
>> 36-40,45481Mülheim an der Ruhr
>> 
>> Offene Handelsgesellschaft, eingetragen Amtsgericht Duisburg, HRA 8577
>> 
>> Geschäftsführende Gesellschafterin: ALDI International Services & 
>> Administration SE, Mülheim an der Ruhr ∙ Registergericht: Amtsgericht 
>> Duisburg · HRB 34355
>> 
>> Geschäftsführende Direktoren: Dr. David Godschalk, Daniel Koch, Reiner 
>> Mischke, Inka Rückle
>> 
>> Weitere Gesellschafter: ALDI SE & Co. Kommanditgesellschaften der 
>> Unternehmensgruppe ALDI SÜD
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Paolo Volpato via 
>> ipv6-wg
>> Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2023 08:42
>> To: Wilhelm Boeddinghaus 
>> Cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
>> Subject: Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises
>> 
>> Caution: This email originated from outside of the ALDI-HOFER organisation. 
>> If the content looks suspicious, please report this email via the "Phish 
>> Alert Report" button or the ServiceNow request "Report Security Event".
>> Do not click on any links or open attachments unless you recognise the 
>> sender's email address and you are sure the content is safe.
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Wilhelm,
>> 
>> In addition, I would add that they also lack the budget to consider 
>> deploying IPv6, meaning that enterprises don't consider IPv6 as a priority.
>> At least, this is what we found during the editing of RFC 9386 on IPv6 
>> deployment status.
>> 

Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Wilhelm Boeddinghaus]

Hi Andreas,

if the government starts shutting down services with IPv4, the pressure 
for IPv6 will rise :-) There are no laws needed.


Best,

Wilhelm

Am 31.05.2023 um 08:52 schrieb Springob, Andreas (IIT-CSS/Network & 
Identity Solutions):

Hi Wilhelm,

Lot of things were said and all are correct. Lack of knowledge, 
budget, priority, interest, projects, success. It might be rather an 
approach for RIPE and other RIRs to get in contact with governmental 
units, setting up legislation as with the office of management and 
budget in the US:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-21-07.pdf / 
"Completing the Transition to Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)"


I believe that no government will successfully force companies by 
laws, but it'll be rather an idea to start with governmental 
department and public services first things. Submitting companies' 
annual financial statements, registering cars, health related 
information to public insurances via IPV6 only would massively help. 
But that's a long road. RIRs might help with consulting for free / 
small charge, but without governments and legislation, companies do 
what they're supposed to... earning revenue with minimum effort.


If there's any request for support in a small working group, you can 
contact me for further discussions.



Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Best regards,

Andreas Springob

Senior IT Consultant

*ALDI International Services SE & Co. oHG*

IIT Corporate Shared Services - Network & Identity Solutions

Mintarder Straße 36-40

45481 Mülheim an der Ruhr

Germany

Tel: +49 208 2072-4072

* SAVE PAPER - THINK BEFORE YOU PRINT*


/Diese Nachricht einschließlich Anlagen ist ausschließlich für den angegebenen 
Empfänger bestimmt und kann privilegierte,
vertrauliche oder sonst geschützte Informationen enthalten. Sollten Sie diese 
Nachricht irrtümlich erhalten, sind Ihnen
Kenntnisnahme, Vervielfältigung, Weiterleitung oder sonstige Verwertung 
ausdrücklich untersagt. Bitte benachrichtigen Sie
den oben angegebenen Absender und löschen Sie die empfangene Nachricht.

This message including the enclosures is intended exclusively for the recipient 
stated and can contain privileged, confidential or
otherwise protected information. Should you receive this message by mistake, it 
is strictly prohibited for you to use, disseminate,
forward, print or copy this message. Please inform the sender mentioned above 
and delete the message received.
/

*ALDI International Services SE & Co. oHG*,Mintarder Straße 
36-40,45481Mülheim an der Ruhr


Offene Handelsgesellschaft, eingetragen Amtsgericht Duisburg, HRA 8577

Geschäftsführende Gesellschafterin: ALDI International Services & 
Administration SE, Mülheim an der Ruhr ∙ Registergericht: Amtsgericht 
Duisburg · HRB 34355


Geschäftsführende Direktoren: Dr. David Godschalk, Daniel Koch, Reiner 
Mischke, Inka Rückle


Weitere Gesellschafter: ALDI SE & Co. Kommanditgesellschaften der 
Unternehmensgruppe ALDI SÜD



-Original Message-
From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Paolo Volpato 
via ipv6-wg

Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2023 08:42
To: Wilhelm Boeddinghaus 
Cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

Caution: This email originated from outside of the ALDI-HOFER 
organisation. If the content looks suspicious, please report this 
email via the "Phish Alert Report" button or the ServiceNow request 
"Report Security Event".
Do not click on any links or open attachments unless you recognise the 
sender's email address and you are sure the content is safe.



Hi Wilhelm,

In addition, I would add that they also lack the budget to consider 
deploying IPv6, meaning that enterprises don't consider IPv6 as a 
priority.
At least, this is what we found during the editing of RFC 9386 on IPv6 
deployment status.


I would be happy to contribute to this effort.

Best regards
Paolo

-Original Message-
From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Wilhelm Boeddinghaus
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 6:06 PM
To: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

Hi,

at the end of my talk during the RIPE86 IPv6 working group I promised 
to start work on a paper with clear guidance for enterprises to 
migrate their networks to IPv6.


We have often wondere why enterprises do not migrate to IPv6. One 
possible answer is: They have no time and they lack knowledge. Many IT 
departments don't have any spare time for reading RFCs.


From my understanding these IT departments don't need papers 
explaining the many possibilites to choose from. They need very clear 
guidance and examples.


I am looking for 3 to 4 people who would like to start working on this 
with me.


Peter Hessler contacted me during the meeting and he offered his help, 
time and expertise for this project. Thank you, Peter.


Best,

Wilhelm


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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Wilhelm Boeddinghaus]

Hi Paolo,

thanks for your help with this project.

Lack of budget is of course a problem. But if the IT departments could 
at least quantify the budget, this would help. If they have no idea how 
to start the project, a budget eastimation is not possible.


Best,

Wilhelm

Am 31.05.2023 um 08:42 schrieb Paolo Volpato via ipv6-wg:

Hi Wilhelm,

In addition, I would add that they also lack the budget to consider deploying 
IPv6, meaning that enterprises don't consider IPv6 as a priority.
At least, this is what we found during the editing of RFC 9386 on IPv6 
deployment status.

I would be happy to contribute to this effort.

Best regards
Paolo

-Original Message-
From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Wilhelm Boeddinghaus
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 6:06 PM
To: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

Hi,

at the end of my talk during the RIPE86 IPv6 working group I promised to start 
work on a paper with clear guidance for enterprises to migrate their networks 
to IPv6.

We have often wondere why enterprises do not migrate to IPv6. One possible 
answer is: They have no time and they lack knowledge. Many IT departments don't 
have any spare time for reading RFCs.

  From my understanding these IT departments don't need papers explaining the 
many possibilites to choose from. They need very clear guidance and examples.

I am looking for 3 to 4 people who would like to start working on this with me.

Peter Hessler contacted me during the meeting and he offered his help, time and 
expertise for this project. Thank you, Peter.

Best,

Wilhelm




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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Yannis Nikolopoulos]

On 5/30/23 19:06, Wilhelm Boeddinghaus wrote:

They have no time and they lack knowledge
Well, they seem to have the time to learn about and invest in 
complicated and outdated NAT solutions in order to stretch what little 
IPv4 they have. Let's produce some IPv6-only (with some proper 
transition tech at the edges) guides for them. Now that's something I 
would totally get behind :)


Regards,
Yannis

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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Alexander Koeppe via ipv6-wg]

Hi

> The civil servants were concerned that adding an IPv6 requirement would 
> further reduce competition and make managing cost more difficult.

And this is - in my opinion -  just a reflection of the typical 
counter-argument coming from these IT consultants being reluctant getting their 
hands dirty with IPv6 and postulate "why should I need IPv6, everything works 
with IPv4 though".


Alexander Koeppe




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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Leo Vegoda]

Hi,

On Tue, 30 May 2023 at 23:52, Springob, Andreas (IIT-CSS/Network &
Identity Solutions)  wrote:
>
> Hi Wilhelm,
>
> Lot of things were said and all are correct. Lack of knowledge, budget, 
> priority, interest, projects, success. It might be rather an approach for 
> RIPE and other RIRs to get in contact with governmental units, setting up 
> legislation as with the office of management and budget in the US:

The RIPE NCC has done this - and probably still does it.

When I attended these meetings in the past there was pushback from
civil servants. Governments often struggle to get more than two
qualified vendors for many contracts. The civil servants were
concerned that adding an IPv6 requirement would further reduce
competition and make managing cost more difficult.

Kind regards,

Leo

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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Springob, Andreas (IIT-CSS/Network & Identity Solutions)]

Hi Wilhelm,

Lot of things were said and all are correct. Lack of knowledge, budget, 
priority, interest, projects, success. It might be rather an approach for RIPE 
and other RIRs to get in contact with governmental units, setting up 
legislation as with the office of management and budget in the US:
https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/M-21-07.pdf / "Completing 
the Transition to Internet Protocol Version 6 (IPv6)"

I believe that no government will successfully force companies by laws, but 
it'll be rather an idea to start with governmental department and public 
services first things. Submitting companies' annual financial statements, 
registering cars, health related information to public insurances via IPV6 only 
would massively help. But that's a long road. RIRs might help with consulting 
for free / small charge, but without governments and legislation, companies do 
what they're supposed to... earning revenue with minimum effort.

If there's any request for support in a small working group, you can contact me 
for further discussions.

-Original Message-
From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Paolo Volpato via ipv6-wg
Sent: Mittwoch, 31. Mai 2023 08:42
To: Wilhelm Boeddinghaus 
Cc: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

Caution: This email originated from outside of the ALDI-HOFER organisation. If 
the content looks suspicious, please report this email via the "Phish Alert 
Report" button or the ServiceNow request "Report Security Event".
Do not click on any links or open attachments unless you recognise the sender's 
email address and you are sure the content is safe.


Hi Wilhelm,

In addition, I would add that they also lack the budget to consider deploying 
IPv6, meaning that enterprises don't consider IPv6 as a priority.
At least, this is what we found during the editing of RFC 9386 on IPv6 
deployment status.

I would be happy to contribute to this effort.

Best regards
Paolo

-Original Message-
From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Wilhelm Boeddinghaus
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 6:06 PM
To: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

Hi,

at the end of my talk during the RIPE86 IPv6 working group I promised to start 
work on a paper with clear guidance for enterprises to migrate their networks 
to IPv6.

We have often wondere why enterprises do not migrate to IPv6. One possible 
answer is: They have no time and they lack knowledge. Many IT departments don't 
have any spare time for reading RFCs.

 From my understanding these IT departments don't need papers explaining the 
many possibilites to choose from. They need very clear guidance and examples.

I am looking for 3 to 4 people who would like to start working on this with me.

Peter Hessler contacted me during the meeting and he offered his help, time and 
expertise for this project. Thank you, Peter.

Best,

Wilhelm


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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Paolo Volpato via ipv6-wg]

Hi Wilhelm,

In addition, I would add that they also lack the budget to consider deploying 
IPv6, meaning that enterprises don't consider IPv6 as a priority.
At least, this is what we found during the editing of RFC 9386 on IPv6 
deployment status.

I would be happy to contribute to this effort.

Best regards
Paolo

-Original Message-
From: ipv6-wg  On Behalf Of Wilhelm Boeddinghaus
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2023 6:06 PM
To: ipv6-wg@ripe.net
Subject: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

Hi,

at the end of my talk during the RIPE86 IPv6 working group I promised to start 
work on a paper with clear guidance for enterprises to migrate their networks 
to IPv6.

We have often wondere why enterprises do not migrate to IPv6. One possible 
answer is: They have no time and they lack knowledge. Many IT departments don't 
have any spare time for reading RFCs.

 From my understanding these IT departments don't need papers explaining the 
many possibilites to choose from. They need very clear guidance and examples.

I am looking for 3 to 4 people who would like to start working on this with me.

Peter Hessler contacted me during the meeting and he offered his help, time and 
expertise for this project. Thank you, Peter.

Best,

Wilhelm


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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Alexander Koeppe via ipv6-wg]

Hi Wilhelm

Me being a network engineer in an enterprise and an IPv6 enthusiast can say, 
that it even fails within the IT.
Many IT workers, from server administrators over network consultants to 
application / solution designers still ignore IPv6 as an avoidable burden.

Every time I talk vendor for a new product, they wince when I ask for IPv6 
support - even today. And IPv6 support doesn't mean that all aspects are 
covered.
Even in the space of network vendors, you feel the difference of maturity for 
IPv6 related support compared to the IPv4 related aspects of the solution when 
you try to thoroughly set it up for IPv6.
The same goes on when going towards application space.

With these constraints it's hard to encourage our own IT folks to just roll it 
out.

>From my opinion, without companies being forced from top-down with a language 
>managers understand (money or complaints), the move to IPv6 will remain at the 
>micro-steps enthusiasts like me can afford and support.

Alexander Koeppe




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Merck KGaA, Darmstadt, Germany and any of its subsidiaries do not accept 
liability for any omissions or errors in this message which may arise as a 
result of E-Mail-transmission or for damages resulting from any unauthorized 
changes of the content of this message and any attachment thereto. Merck KGaA, 
Darmstadt, Germany and any of its subsidiaries do not guarantee that this 
message is free of viruses and does not accept liability for any damages caused 
by any virus transmitted therewith.



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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Torbjörn Eklöv via ipv6-wg]

On 30 May 2023, at 18:50, Michael Richardson  wrote:


Wilhelm Boeddinghaus  wrote:
We have often wondere why enterprises do not migrate to IPv6. One
possible answer is: They have no time and they lack knowledge. Many IT
departments don't have any spare time for reading RFCs.

They have no management mandate on spending their time on it.

From my understanding these IT departments don't need papers explaining
the many possibilites to choose from. They need very clear guidance and
examples.

It's true that they need clear guidance, but since one size does not fit all,
that doesn't help much.

I am looking for 3 to 4 people who would like to start working on this
with me.

I suggest in order to be successful, one really needs an iterative approach.
One needs to include actual IT departments, take their feedback, and iterate.


Hello, here is some work the Swedish Post and Telecom Authority have done. In 
Swedish but by Google Translate here.


[pts_flagga_568x275_363x176.jpg]
Till dig som IT-tekniker | 
PTS
pts-se.translate.goog

I have deployed IPv6 or been involved in many municpalities and enterprise 
since many years and I may help you with a short guide.
My own reflections over the years is
- keep it simple
- Don’t build the most advanced, complex and handsome address plan
- It isn’t a long project, often it’s about a few days to be done
- Always dual stack so the staff have some thing to refer or fall back to
- Main problem isn’t the internal network, it’s broken IPv6 services outside 
where Happy Eyeball don’t help you


In some cases I have had training for the staff when we activate IPv6 in some 
segments.

/Tobbe





--
Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works
-= IPv6 IoT consulting =-  *I*LIKE*TRAINS*



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Re: [ipv6-wg] Clear Guidance for Enterprises

[Michael Richardson]

Wilhelm Boeddinghaus  wrote:
> We have often wondere why enterprises do not migrate to IPv6. One
> possible answer is: They have no time and they lack knowledge. Many IT
> departments don't have any spare time for reading RFCs.

They have no management mandate on spending their time on it.

> From my understanding these IT departments don't need papers explaining
> the many possibilites to choose from. They need very clear guidance and
> examples.

It's true that they need clear guidance, but since one size does not fit all,
that doesn't help much.

> I am looking for 3 to 4 people who would like to start working on this
> with me.

I suggest in order to be successful, one really needs an iterative approach.
One needs to include actual IT departments, take their feedback, and iterate.


--
Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-  *I*LIKE*TRAINS*





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