KR> Waiting for the plans...
"OK - so I am placing the order now, but how much T-88 should I buy?"
I asked this question when I started building, and was told about three
gallons of glue, experience has shown this to be a pretty accurate
estimation, the centre section spars, boat, floor, ply skinning, tail and
wooden turtle deck have used just under two gallons. I bought T-88 in 1
gallon lots as I needed it.
As for Wicks vs Aircraft Spruce, both seem to do the job, Wicks seem a
bit more customer freindly, AS seem to have slightly lower prices, (but not
always ). Both are better to deal with than the locals.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "Nick Brennan"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 4:54 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Waiting for the plans...
> OK - so I am placing the order now, but how much T-88 should I buy?
> According to the fly-kr site, the T-88 costs 26 bucks. The closest I can
> find to being correct is a pint for $22 from Aircraft Spruce. I assume
> that
> is the correct amount? Am I wrong?
>
> Also - before I do it, I just wanted to make sure this is correct -
> Aircraft
> Spruce has two wood kits, but interestingly enough - the KR2S spruce kit
> is
> cheaper than the KR2 spruce kit. Is this a mistake?
>
> Nick Brennan
> nickdbren...@comcast.net
>
> - Original Message -
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:07 AM
> Subject: Re: KR> Waiting for the plans...
>
>
>> Mr.Nick
>>
>> If you have a drill press or know anyone that does you
>> can
>> buy the metal have it cut and you can drill it all out your self for way
>> cheaper. I bought the metal for the front and rear wing attachment from
>> AS&S for
>> less than $45. I bought the 1 1/2 inch strip for the front then bought a
>> 9'' by
>> 18" sheet and had the rears sheared off. My cut cost from a machine shop
>> was
>> $20. If your looking to save money I would deffinateely looking into
>> making your
>> own. If I was to take my parts and had them chromated professionally it
>> would
>> cause me $85 for anything I need chromated and painted. Just my opinion
>> not
>> that it counts for much.
>>
>>
>> David Swanson
>> bdazzca...@aol.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to <A
>> HREF=http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> Post photos, introductions, and For Sale items to <A
> HREF=http://www.kr2forum.com/phpBB2/index.php
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
> --
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KR> carbon fibre tail spring
I have an engineers report here which tells me a cf tail spring about 6mm in thickness is 33 per cent less stiff than a steel spring, but if 12mm thick it is 5 times the stifness of a metal spring and about half the weight, so I was thinking that about 8 mm in thickness will do the job, any one have any experience in using cf for tail wheel springs? Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
KR> Aircraft modeling software
From what I remember, which is not much as I do not have a good memory, NASA use matlab for changing inflight handling characteristics of there aircraft which they use for astronaut training, I found matlab a bit clunky to use, but t takes all the hard work out of calculus, heaps of people use it for all manner of scientific applications, but its that long since I used it I have forgotten how to make it go. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia. - Original Message - From: "Ron Butterfield" To: Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:26 AM Subject: KR> Aircraft modeling software > I'm not sure how many of you engineer types are already aware of this, > but... > > We use Matlab (a computer mathematical analysis program) at work for > some of the products we sell, and I am a little bit familiar with it > due to having to provide support for these products. Because I am the > technical contact for our company with regards to Matlab I receive > their newsletters. These newsletters often have interesting bits of > news in them related to aerospace. > > A few months ago there was an article about the design, construction, > and testing of a new civilian tilt-rotor aircraft targeted at the > offshore oil platform market. > > This month's article concerns a new toolbox they offer that is > specifically for "flight vehicle design", specifically the flight > characteristics of a new light airplane. The article also links to a > published US Air Force data compendium tool. > > http://www.mathworks.com/company/newsletters/digest/2007/jan/flightsim.html?s_cid=MLD0107na2TA2&s_v1=42005|1-E28H5 > http://www.va.afrl.af.mil/org/VAC/VACA/vaca_index.html > > This is all well over my head, but I think at least a few of you guys > here are working at this level, and I am offering it for your interest > if you are not already aware of it. > > If nobody is interested in this, I won't hear any more about it and > won't bother sending any more updates on this topic. > > -- > Regards, > RonB > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
KR> Canopy frame
I need to make a canopy frame, what I am intending to do is mount the canopy, make a frame from foam and fit while the canopy is in place, and glass over with carbon fibre cloth. Bi directional Carbon cloth is about $60 -$70 per metre, so I was going to use some unidirectional cloth for about $12 per metre and alternate the weave at 90 degrees to each other, Any problems or flaws in using the cloth in this way? any better methods? Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
KR> Canopy frame
> Just remember that radio waves do not travel through carbon fiber. Regular cloth works very well for that purpose and costs 5 times less and you only have to use one layer I don/t think the canopy frame would provide enough area to mask to any great significane any RF, if it were a wing panel or whole tail section then I would assume that would be large enough to present problems. The materials engineers at work tell me that the great advantage of cf is its light weight, I always was of the opinion its primary advantage structurally was a very good youngs modulus, ie its siffness, my theory being that two layers of cf at half the weight of the regular stuff would give a stiffer canopy frame than the usual glass. Just a thought though. Chris Johnston > > North Richmond > > NSW Australia - Original Message - From: To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 8:49 AM Subject: Re: KR> Canopy frame > Just remember that radio waves do not travel through carbon fiber. > Regular cloth works very well for that purpose and costs 5 times less and > you only have to use one layer. > > From: "Chris Johnston" > Date: 2007/01/25 Thu PM 03:36:29 CST > To: "KRnet" > Subject: KR> Canopy frame > >I need to make a canopy frame, what I am intending to do is mount the > canopy, make a frame from foam and fit while the canopy is in place, and > glass over with carbon fibre cloth. Bi directional Carbon cloth is about > $60 -$70 per metre, so I was going to use some unidirectional cloth for > about $12 per metre and alternate the weave at 90 degrees to each other, > Any problems or flaws in using the cloth in this way? any better methods? > > > > Chris Johnston > > North Richmond > > NSW Australia > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
KR> d shackles
Can anyone give me a part number for a d shackle for connecting the rudder cable to the rudder horn, the local guy who sells this stuff in Sydney only had huge ones you could use as stirrups in a horse saddle or for trying up the Queen Mary. I have to get a finger strainer from AS, so might as well get the shackle as well. The local guy had no part numbers. AS have heaps of them in their catalog but I am not sure whihc will fit properly and which will not. Are there any plastic substitutes for the brass finger strainers? Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia. -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
KR> header tanks
What would be the best way to install/fit a Summit tank?? Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia. - Original Message - From: "william Clapp" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:14 AM Subject: Re: KR> header tanks > My preference on my Corvair KR2S is to run the header because of my > gravity feed carb - Gravity is pretty dependable - I think it is more > reliable than a fuel pump (no reported incidents of loss of gravity other > than with some assossiated UFO sightings) I have a 13 gallon header and > 10 gallons in each wing. Trim is not a big issue and it probably actually > helps in that with higher weights I can transfer more fuel to the header > to make it more stable in landings.I would opt for a Summit racing > tank in the future. You can get a 8 gallon tank that is crash survivable > for about 120.00 dollars. Not a bad investment - already has fittings and > fuel foam...Just and idea. Bill > > AVLEC wrote: Hi Guys > I have been thinking long and hard about the possibility of not installing > my aluminum header tank and just sticking with the two outboard wing > tanks. > I did build the tank with its CG as close to the spar as possible. It will > take about 50 litres to fill it. > I would like to hear from those who have header tanks (possibly with a > corvair). How much does your CG change with fuel burn-off? My fuselage is > stock 2S dimensions. > Another problem I have if I get rid of the header tank is the sight guage > goes with it. I had planned on running from the header tank only with a > transfer pump filling the header when necessary. Wing tanks are not full > width between the spars either but rather longer, narrower units keeping > the > fuel close to the CG for minimal influence. Provision will be made to suck > direct from the wing tanks should the transfer pump fail. > Any information would be greatly appreciated. > Regards > Dene Collett > KR2SRT builder > South africa > Whisper assembler > See: www.whisperaircraft.com > mailto: av...@telkomsa.net > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by Ozdocs MailScanner, and is believed to be clean.
KR> Front deck modification
An excellent idea that will pay dividends at least every annual. If your
> fuel tank is an integral part of the front deck your attachment to the
> fuselage will need to be fairly significant. If it is separate like
> mine, the piano hinges should suffice. My front deck is removable from
> the top longerons upward. The outer skin comes down and overlaps the
> side of the top longerons and I have four screws in each side to hold it
> in place. If you are interested let me know and I will send some pics.
>
> Stephen Teate
> Paradise, Texas
Could I have a copy of your tank mount as well.My front deck /tank
with baffles, fuel sender, finger strainer, vent , cap etc etc is about 15
lbs, how is this for weight? Some
of the locals tell me that they have a tank and front deck weighing about 7
lbs??? I used 1/2 inch foam with two layers of
6 ounce cloth inside and out, with two inch tape along all inside and
outside joins, its about 55 litres capacity, they tell me 1) Its as strong
as an ox, 2) One layer of cloth inside and out would have done, only
disadvantage to this arrangement is not much access to the rear of the fire
wall for engine mount inspections. I looked at Summit tanks but was not sure
how to fit them, I think a ply front deck and separate header tank such as a
Summit tank would be lighter than my 15 lbs, any advice?? It was also a very
good exercise in learning how to fibreglass.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia
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KR> boatless fuselage?
You will probably find as time goes by that a lot in sport aircraft
design is very empirical, ie a bit like building old sailing ships, ( of
whihc I have a bit of an interest in ), line up a few planks on the river
bank with a plumb bob and a thumb, and away you go, undercarrige for
instance, there is not a lot of design information available, its a case of
this works, so everyone uses this, then follows over the years a process of
empirical development, I am surprised that thngs happen this way, I would
have thought that a more engineering approach would be more appropriate, but
anyhow, the system seems to work so what can I say And because you are
a plummer, bears no relationship to your intelligence or creative ability. I
know guys who are aeronautical engineers and they are absolute dolts, they
get their degree because they have a very very good memory, but cannot put a
nut to a bolt, I'm the other way round, have no memory capacity at all.
Flying boat hulls were also manufactured by wooden strips laminated
together diagonally and bonded with wood glue, they were quite light and
very strong, but labour intensive, so they went to metal hulls, much quicker
to put together, and easier to repair.Just a bit of history.
Anyway, you are in the right part of the world for innovative ideas,
Australia is a very backward place for technology, science and aviation,
most ideas worth anything have to go overseas to do any good.
The platten press sounds like the way to go. The glider guy I knew was
very emphatic about the water problem in teh balsa wood, its absorbs the
water like a sponge and then the rot sets in and its was impossible to get
rid of it, in a one off design like the kr where teh builder is the owner,
and much care is taken in looking after teh airplane, then damage to the
skin is not a problem as these machines get looked after very well, but in a
prodcution environment where the airframes are distributed to glider clubs
the world over where the aeroplanes are made to work quite hard , ie
constant club use day in and day out, and not much care was taken of the
airframe, then the balsa core gave problems. Gliders carry water in teh
wings as ballast, it improves teh performance curve by shifting everything
to a higher airspeed, you get the same glide angle, but faster, the down
side is you do not climb as fast in the thermals, untill the thermal
strength gets quite strong, then the loss in climb is only marginal, on a kr
you probably would be pretty safe untill some kid comes along and thinks,
"Gee, what is this stuff," and pokes a hole in it somewhere you don't see,
and ...
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "Mike johnson"
To: "krnet"
Sent: Monday, October 30, 2006 1:19 PM
Subject: Re: KR> boatless fuselage?
> Chris,
> You have some very good thoughts. I will run it by some of the guys and
> see what they think.
> I will try to keep this conversation about KR's so knowone gets upset.
>
> I can't give much of an opinion because I am a plumber and just don't have
> that type of knowledge.
> You do have a clever ways of thinking. Regardless of where you live you
> can still be creative.
>
> Here is something to think about. For many years my father has owned a
> large manufacturing company producing phenolic panels for the medical
> industry. Anyhoo, I have been with him on many adventures around the globe
> and have seen some companies produce some very unique products. One of the
> products that was unique was a company that made wood molded dash panels
> for BMW.Imagine three sheets of veneer put in a stack, each having a
> thickness of about .030 thick. Similar to how phenolic is made, very thin
> sheets of phenolic coated rice paper is put between them, this is the
> glue.
>
> Next, this stack is put into a machine called a platten press. It is just
> a simple mold of the part, similar
> to a plastic injection machine. The top and bottom each have hot oil
> running through them to heat the
> glue up and melt the glue sheets between them. After about 3 minutes the
> oil is evacuated and the
> part cools. Open up the press and bingo.Take a knife and remove the
> flashing. Not only is the part perfectly molded, but no finishing is
> required because the glue is also a phenolic resin which when cured is a
> rock hard gloss that a simple buffer cleans up. The phenolic is
> impregnated into the wood
> because of tons of pressure and heat. Handling the glue is easy because it
> is dry and in the form of
> a thin sheet of paper. The glue type paper product is made by my father as
> well. You would be amazed how strong that part is.
>
> Imagine what you could d
KR> SORRY!!!!!!!! boatless fuselage
Extremely sorry about sending this post on "BOATLESS FUSELAGE" I have sent
it to the wrong place, just ignore it.
"You will probably find as time goes by that a lot in sport aircraft
design is very empirical, ie a bit like building old sailing ships, ( of
whihc I have a bit of an interest in ), line up a few planks on the river
bank with a plumb bob and a thumb, and away you go, undercarrige for
instance, there is not a lot of design information available, its a case of
this works, so everyone uses this, then follows over the years a process of
empirical development, I am surprised that thngs happen this way, I would
have thought that a more engineering approach would be more appropriate,
but.."
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia
KR> wing weight
I am no aeronautical engineer but I would tend to think the extra few pounds of wing skin weight would not be a big problem as you get extra wing area and a higher aspect ratio from the slightly greater span, even Rand Robinson say the Diehl wing skin gives better climb, but, like I said, Im no aeronautical engineer.No bucket loads of foam dust , you can use the stock spar lengths, I save a lot on the cost of foam which is expensive for me, time saving in finishing, and so on and son. Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia - Original Message - From: To: "krnet" Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:38 AM Subject: KR> wing weight > Hay Everyone > Reading all this about wing weight and I'm getting to fee pretty good > about my one piece wing.I just weighed my wing with all the hardware > installed, including the gear brackets and I'm coming in around 126lb. > > Robert Pesak > http://rkpsk.com/ > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Wanting Plans KR2S
Email me at chr...@ozdocs.net.au, I can tell you all about the plans procedure from RR.. cj. - Original Message - From: "Richard Mulford" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 10:22 PM Subject: KR> Wanting Plans KR2S > Hi krnet,Just wanting to know if there is a chance that anyone out there > knows of a set of plans for the KR2S that some crazy person does not want. > If not do you think RAND would reply to me if i wanted to purchase a set ? > . > By the way i have a set of plans for the teenie two which i purchased from > calvin parker that i do not want as i am married know and need something > with an extra seat. > > R.Mulford > > Riverstone N S W > > Australia > > _ > See The Killers in the UK. Download mobile stuff to win! > http://ninemsn.com.au/share/redir/adTrack.asp?mode=click&clientID=723&referral=hotmailtagline&URL=http://ninemsn.blueskyfrog.com/index.cfm?dir=promos&page=killers > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> wing skins weight
You coming to the Richmond airshow Phil, or bit to far to pedal your 172? I just remembered, the SAAA Wagga Wagga Show is on soon too. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia - Original Message - From: "Phil Matheson" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: KR> wing skins weight > My Diehl skins are close to 50lbs each. > I'm not sure what the built up wings weigh, but would be interested it > Mark > or someone has that figure available. > > > Phil Matheson > VH-PKR > Australia > KR Web Page > www.philskr2.50megs.com > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> control rods
I need to make up some control rods and need some advice. I want to run a
rod from the stick to the airleron bellcrank, then another rod back to the
airlerons, so I thought of 1/2 inch or so aluminium tube, with a solid
aluminium insert at each end which can be drilled and tapped, riveted or bolted
in place, riveting would be better I think, then use a male threaded rod end
bearing in each end with a left hand thread and a right hand thread
respectively. I do not know a great deal about rod end bearings, and a part
number of something to do the job would be very helpful. My biggest worry is
what size of bearing would be needed to do the job, theres thousands of them in
the catalog, but just don't know what an appropriate size would be as I have
absolutely no experience with these types of bearings. Would 1/2 or 3/4 inch
inch tube do the job, and what wall thickness would be strong enough?
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia.
KR> Diehl Wing skins
I want to see if I can get a set of Diehl wing skins, it seems Diehl
aeronautical is not wanting to be bothered making them anymore, which has upset
my building plans no end. We were also planning on using them in a
fibreglassing course, plus they give you a bit better performance. A freind of
mine has a container leaving the US in about two weeks and he suggested as a
last ditch desperate attempt to get a set of wing skins by asking the krnet if
anyone has a set which they don't want, told him the chances of this happening
are about 6 zillion to one, but he insisted, so if anyone has a set they would
like to sell, please let me know.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW AUSTRALIA.
KR> Diehl Wing skins
Good idea, excellent idea actually! only problem is RR never answer back to us colonialist, I wanted to get canopies, engine cowlings etc etc, but its like talking to the never never, pretty poor customer service, nothing like the usual levels of customer service one gets from the US. But, will try again. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia - Original Message - From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" To: Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 5:38 AM Subject: Re: KR> Diehl Wing skins >Try Rand Robinson, Virg > > On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 00:36:17 +1000 "Chris Johnston" > writes: >> I want to see if I can get a set of Diehl wing skins, it seems >> Diehl aeronautical is not wanting to be bothered making them >> anymore, which has upset my building plans no end. We were also >> planning on using them in a fibreglassing course, plus they give you >> a bit better performance. A freind of mine has a container leaving >> the US in about two weeks and he suggested as a last ditch desperate >> attempt to get a set of wing skins by asking the krnet if anyone has >> a set which they don't want, told him the chances of this happening >> are about 6 zillion to one, but he insisted, so if anyone has a set >> they would like to sell, please let me know. >> >> >> >>Chris Johnston >> >>North Richmond >> >>NSW AUSTRALIA. >> ___ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> > > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury > Miami ,Fl > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> wing skins
Dan Heath wrote, "Please let us know if you are able to get ANYTHING out of
RR. They are a very sorry excuse for a business."
Also, "You actually will most likely get better performance out of the new
wing, although it is more difficult to build. I also think that the scratch
built wings are lighter than the Diehl skins. "
Your tellin me they are
My plan was to use the raf 48 wing skins, as I think with a good set of
seals on the aerlerons, and the higher aspect ratio of the wing skins, then the
performance of the two at about 100 knots will be pretty close, the newer
section gives about a 10 per cent reduction in drag at this speed I believe,
but this is drag of the wing, ( actually wing section ), and not the total drag
of the aeroplane, so the difference as a function of total drag would be less
then 10 per cent. It would probably cost half the cost of the wing skins in
just foam at Sydney prices, then glass etc etc, so why bother, use the ready
made part and the older wing section. There is someone here locally who makes
wing skins, but they want there money, Dan Diehl does them for $2200 US, the
local guy wants A$10,000, about US$13000.
However, I went for a fly in a kr just recently, with the longer span of
Gary Morgans kr's, and the newer section, and at 80 kts, 80 litres of fuel, two
persons on board, and 80 hp, it was still climbing at 700 fpm, at top of climb
it levelled out and went straight to 140 kts, all with three wheels hanging out
in the breeze, the font one having no fairings on it. So, a lot to be said for
the newer section, especially at the higher speeds.
As RR is useless, and Dan Diehl is not interested anymore in wing skins,
then maybe its time someone else started kr manufacturing, or at least kr
parts, surprisingly, kr's go together very very quickly, IF, you have things
like control rods, fuel tanks, gear , hinges, and all you have to do is bolt
them in, what takes time is INVENTING the wheel, working out HOW TO BUILD THE
WHEEL, fitting the wheel in the airframe takes next to no times at all. To cut
a long story short, more standardization of parts would probably help, plus
other things but tired of typing so here endeth the lesson.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia
KR> wing skins/ Price correction
I was offered wing skins for $10, 000 dollars Australian, and said no, I
can build pretty much the whole airframe for about that, and it was
definitely $10,000, abosolutely no question about that, and $1000 for a
turtle deck and front deck, and $200 for a fuel tank, there was then a
change in price for the fuel tank to $290 dollars, the $ 1000 for turtle
deck, and 290 dollars for the fuel tank I thought was very very reasonable
considering costs in this country. If I had used local hoop pine to cover
the fuselage, I would have been below the $10,000 mark, but I bought
aircraft grade birch from the US.
If the local wing skins are now $5000, then there has been a price
change. And no, as far as I know, GM uses the raf section. Gary told me his
wings are longer in span and I think he also said slightly deeper in
section. I flew in a kr recently which has the longer span wings, simialr to
Gary's I was told, but the builder also used the later AS wing section.
Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with the raf section, it
suited my needs quite well.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "Phil Matheson"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: KR> wing skins/ Price correction
> Chris and netters
> I just got off the phone to Garry Morgan, regarding your email on wing
> skin
> price.
> Garry said he sells wing skins to KR people for $5000. (RRP $7,500)
>
> I'm confused and think you are saying he uses the new wing section??
>
> Garry DOES not use the new wing section on his planes.
>
>
> Phil Matheson
> VH-PKR
> Australia
> KR Web Page
> www.philskr2.50megs.com
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> Diehl Wing skins
Virgil sai's " Fax and leave a return Fax number. Good paper trail, Virg"
to contact Rand Robinson.
Yep!!! Been there, done that many times, but never any answer, phoned and
left my phone number, fax number, call anytime offer day or night, even
posted my home address, phone fax number, but never any answer, I guess it
is probably because we talk funny here.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia
- Original Message -
From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY"
To:
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 2:05 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Diehl Wing skins
>Fax and leave a return Fax number. Good paper trail, Virg
>
> On Sun, 8 Oct 2006 19:56:06 +1000 "Chris Johnston"
> writes:
>> Good idea, excellent idea actually! only problem is RR
>> never
>> answer back to us colonialist, I wanted to get canopies, engine
>> cowlings etc
>> etc, but its like talking to the never never, pretty poor customer
>> service,
>> nothing like the usual levels of customer service one gets from the
>> US. But,
>> will try again.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Johnston
>>
>>
>> North Richmond
>>
>>
>> NSW Australia
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY"
>> To:
>> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2006 5:38 AM
>> Subject: Re: KR> Diehl Wing skins
>>
>>
>> >Try Rand Robinson, Virg
>> >
>> > On Sat, 7 Oct 2006 00:36:17 +1000 "Chris Johnston"
>>
>> > writes:
>> >> I want to see if I can get a set of Diehl wing skins, it
>> seems
>> >> Diehl aeronautical is not wanting to be bothered making them
>> >> anymore, which has upset my building plans no end. We were also
>> >> planning on using them in a fibreglassing course, plus they give
>> you
>> >> a bit better performance. A freind of mine has a container
>> leaving
>> >> the US in about two weeks and he suggested as a last ditch
>> desperate
>> >> attempt to get a set of wing skins by asking the krnet if anyone
>> has
>> >> a set which they don't want, told him the chances of this
>> happening
>> >> are about 6 zillion to one, but he insisted, so if anyone has a
>> set
>> >> they would like to sell, please let me know.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Chris Johnston
>> >>
>> >>North Richmond
>> >>
>> >>NSW AUSTRALIA.
>> >> ___
>> >> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
>> krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL
>> > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury
>> > Miami ,Fl
>> >
>> > ___
>> > Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
>> krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>> >
>>
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>>
>
>
> Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL
> www.lubedealer.com/salisbury
> Miami ,Fl
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> Re: Wing Skins
But some of us want to get to fly this lifetime and not the next! Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia - Original Message - From: "Stephen Hubbert" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 3:10 AM Subject: KR> Re: Wing Skins > > >Hey Chris, > > "Inventing...building..." Maybe that's why they call our planes > homebuilts! > > Steve > > IF, you have things like control rods, fuel tanks, gear , hinges, and all > you have to do is bolt them in, what takes time is INVENTING the wheel, > working out HOW TO BUILD THE WHEEL, fitting the wheel in the airframe > takes next to no times at all. > > Chris Johnston > North Richmond > NSW Australia > > -- > > > > - > Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> todds canopies
Can anyone give me Todd Silva's, of Todds Canopies, phone number, his web
site is down, and I cannot find his phone number from any online searches, he
must still be in business as AS are taking his orders. It takes AS 3-4 weeks to
get a canopy. Somone I know has a container leaving the US in a few days and I
went to see if I can get a canopy.
Chris Johnston
North richmond NSW
Australia.
KR> RE: KR New Photos
I would be interested in some of the ideas you picked up on wheel pants, paint etc etc. Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia chr...@ozdocs.net.au - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 10:46 AM Subject: KR> RE: KR New Photos Mark, Good to see you are home and all in one piece. I always have had concerns about what would happen if I got stuck someplace remote and not knowing anyone. It is great to see these folks just practiaclly gave you the shirt and "trailer" right off their back. Cool! My trip home was uneventful. I ran the Revmaster at 3200 rpm and ended up getting fuel enroute which I wasn't quite expecting but not a big deal. The previous Thursday I had made it to Mount Vernon easily running at 3000 RPM and still had plenty of fuel left (12 gallons burned out of 16 in the tank). I landed in Warrenburg MO (9K4), home of Central Missouri State University. Turned out all the kids running the FBO on the weeked are in college working on their aviation degrees. Great to talk to them for a while while the plane was fueling up. I got lots of great ideas at the gathering on wheel pants, legs pants (Steve Glover), paint and such. Loved it as usual. Even better flying my plane there for the 1st time. Rob Schmitt N1852Z Kansas City, MO Message: 10 List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 12:37:04 -0500 From: "Mark Jones" <> Subject: KR> New Photos To: "KR Net \(E-mail\)" , "CorvAircraft \(E-mail\)" Message-ID: <26d1c67793459f43bf8da235f92b1f3501820...@tulsaexchange.tulsaokmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Here are some shots of taking the plane apart and hauling her home after my engine incident while flying to Georgia. http://www.flykr2s.com/photo.html Mark Jones (N886MJ) Wales, WI My Web site: http://www.flykr2s.com/ Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> ceconite covering
I have been offered some ceconite covering and I need to know if it is
worthwhile to use for covering the ply sections of the fuse, wood turtle deck
included of course. I searched the archives but found not very much, so is
ceconite lighter and more durable than the lightweight glass cloth finish
usually used, what are the advantages and disadvantages. I searched on google
and found that you apply some sort of dope/adhesive/glue/bonding agent, (
depending on which web site I went to), and then apply the covering with an
iron, and then prime and paint, and is used a lot on ultralights and
homebuilts, I don't know any more than this, any further advice appreciated.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia
KR> WAF cad files
Would anyone have a set of cad files for the WAFS in either DXF or DWG format for the water jet cutter. There is also a native format which the water cutter uses, which I am not familiar with, this would do also. Many many thanks if you can as this will save me a lot of time. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia
KR> spar fitting
I have sat the centre spars in the fuse for the first time, and they fit very well, excepting the rear spar, the inner edges of the vertical members fore and aft of this spare are closer than the outer edges, there is a lot of bending in the side frame here, I would think the only way to get it to fit will be to chamfer slightly the vertical members. What do most people do to solve this? And I guess by now someone is saying if the hole is not big enough, how do you get the spar to sit in the fuselage? Both spars only have ply on the front face only at this stage, and the gap left is not enough for the other layer of ply, I am sure other people must have come across this problem, what does everyone do to solve this? If I look at the spars from the front and line up the top and bottom edges, they are out of parallel at the spar ends by about 1/32 inch, just sitting in the fuse, and if I measure the inter spar distance parallel to the aeroplane longitudinal axis, then at the spar ends I get 20 something and 7/10 inch on one side, and the other side gives the same 20 something and 8/10 inch, so the centre section and fuselage frames must be reasonably alighned, otherwise the spars would point in different directions. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia.
KR> spars and cad files
Thanks for everyones help on the spar fitting and cad files, much appreciated. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia
KR> elevator mass balance
I am wondering what peoples thoughts are on extending the elevator horn
either above or below and forward of the elevator, via a curved plate and
mount the mass balance weight internally in the top of the rear fuse, below the
elevator, or above the elevator in the base of the fin, obviously, the fin
location would be a bit cramped as you need to get the pushrod out. Still
thinking about the details. I don't have any foam or glass on the elevators
yet, but it looks liks a reasonable amount of lead will be needed.
Chris Johnston
292 Bells line road
nORTH rICHMOND NSW
Australia.
KR> WAF Plasma cutting
The person in question imports metals for race cars, aircraft grade steel and aluminium tube, but sells a lot of material to the local home aircraft builder market, the local sport aircraft chapter seem to think hes great, so I was very surprised when he told me he was getting a plasma cutter especially for cutting 4130 steel plate, so thought I had better check with someone more learned than me in these things, heat and aircraft grade metals are not a good combination in my opininon. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia. - Original Message - From: "Brian Kraut" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 1:23 PM Subject: RE: KR> WAF Plasma cutting >I am not a structural or materials engineer. I design electronics. I >would > think that engineers working for an aircraft manufacturing company would > know more about it than I do, BUT it sounds a little fishy to me. They > may > be doing the equivalent of shot peening, but as far as I know that is only > a > stress relieving treatment and will not change the hardness and therefore > the brittleness of the metal. Of course a lot of what is acceptable and > what is not depends on the safey factor that is designed into the part to > begin with. There are also different methods of plasma cutting using > oxygen > or nitrogen and they do not each leave the same edge on the part. > > It all boils down to my stock answer. If you don't know for sure that it > is > O.K. then use a method that you know is O.K. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -Original Message- > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Larry H. > Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:15 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: KR> WAF Plasma cutting > > > Brian, I know someone who is making all of the 4130 fittings which > includes > wing attach for an aircraft mfg company. All of the parts are being > plasma > cut by computer and then the parts are being tumbled to deburr. The > tumbling > process is the normalizing effect. Their engineers think the parts are > fine. > What do you think about this practice? > Larry H. > > Brian Kraut wrote: > Absolutely not. Plasma cutting leaves a very hard edge. I have had > several > 4130 parts plasma cut including my lower gear attach fittings for the KR > and > the seatbelt attach fittings and canopy latch parts for the Stang. I did > some finish machining on some of the parts and the edges were hard as > rocks > and needed carbide tools to cut them. Hard edges mean brittle edges. > Brittle edges mean the high liklihood of cracks starting. The parts I have > plasma cut are sent to a heat treater to be normalized when done, but if > you > are not getting that done don't do it for structural parts. Same applies > for laser cutting. Water jet is O.K. > > Another problem with plasma and water jet depending on the thickness is > that > they both cut with a taper and sometimes also a slightly rough edge. If > you > do water jet and have the bolt holes cut you want to have them done > undersized and ream them to finish the holes. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -Original Message- > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Chris Johnston > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:56 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: KR> WAF Plasma cutting > > > Can you plasma cut the wafs without affecting the metal?? > Are the tailplane hinge ply backup plates glued in place or just held on > by the nuts and aluminium backup plates? > The plans state the inner hinges have two bolts, does this mean the > outer hinges have only one bolt per hinge half? > Can you use two bolts on the outer tailplane and elevator hinge without > weakening the spars too much? > > > > > Chris Johnston > > North Richmond NSW > > Australia > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to
KR> WAF Plasma cutting
I wasn't around the KR world in the beginning, so I am curious. In the
> beginning, how did they do it? I always thought that you just cut them
> out
> on a band saw and drilled a couple of holes. Did Ken send his off to a
> plasma or water jet cutter?
Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
>
Ken Rand was an aeronautical engineer, so he knew just what he could get
away with, and what not, I do not have his level of knowledge, or even a
great deal of experience in aviation standards, so to make up for that lack
of knowledge, you have to be very safe and play on the conservative side of
what works, after I have built two or three aeroplanes, I am sure I can do
things I would never do now, but you have made a very very good point!
Chris Johnston
North Richmond NSW
Australia.
KR> WAF Plasma cutting
That was my original plan, water jet cut and ream, but I was told recently that plasma cutting is ok, I was a bit suspicious about that comment, hence my asking. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW AUSTRALIA. - Original Message - From: "Brian Kraut" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 12:03 PM Subject: RE: KR> WAF Plasma cutting > Absolutely not. Plasma cutting leaves a very hard edge. I have had > several > 4130 parts plasma cut including my lower gear attach fittings for the KR > and > the seatbelt attach fittings and canopy latch parts for the Stang. I did > some finish machining on some of the parts and the edges were hard as > rocks > and needed carbide tools to cut them. Hard edges mean brittle edges. > Brittle edges mean the high liklihood of cracks starting. The parts I > have > plasma cut are sent to a heat treater to be normalized when done, but if > you > are not getting that done don't do it for structural parts. Same applies > for laser cutting. Water jet is O.K. > > Another problem with plasma and water jet depending on the thickness is > that > they both cut with a taper and sometimes also a slightly rough edge. If > you > do water jet and have the bolt holes cut you want to have them done > undersized and ream them to finish the holes. > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > -Original Message- > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Chris Johnston > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 6:56 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: KR> WAF Plasma cutting > > >Can you plasma cut the wafs without affecting the metal?? >Are the tailplane hinge ply backup plates glued in place or just held > on > by the nuts and aluminium backup plates? >The plans state the inner hinges have two bolts, does this mean the > outer hinges have only one bolt per hinge half? >Can you use two bolts on the outer tailplane and elevator hinge without > weakening the spars too much? > > > > >Chris Johnston > > North Richmond NSW > > Australia > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >
KR> hole repair
I have drilled a hole off centre in the fin spar by about 1/8 inch, I used a drill guide to stop this sort of thing happening but obviously I was not good enough, can ths hole be filled and redrilled or best to just leave it as is? Any other means of effecting a repair? Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia
KR> WAF Plasma cutting
Can you plasma cut the wafs without affecting the metal?? Are the tailplane hinge ply backup plates glued in place or just held on by the nuts and aluminium backup plates? The plans state the inner hinges have two bolts, does this mean the outer hinges have only one bolt per hinge half? Can you use two bolts on the outer tailplane and elevator hinge without weakening the spars too much? Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia
KR> LCD problems
LCD modules are made up typically of a front polarising panel, a
conductive plane with teh segment images printed on them, the liquid crystal
material, a electrically common plane, and another polarising plane and a
reflective backplane. If the display is has a two tone image, usually grey
and black with wavy edges, then it is a pretty safe bet that the liquid has
leaked out and the unit is ruined, usually impact damage causes this
failure. Sometimes due to temperature, usually too cold rather than too hot,
the display will change color over the whole of the screen, a lot of lcd
material is not freeze proof. The big advantage of lcd 's is that they use
microcosm's of power, ie millionths of an amp, or micro amps, comparitive
solid state led's use around milliamps of power, ie thousandths of an amp,
there fore the lcd modules are used for battery powered application, there
power requirements are so low that even the stray static and capacitive
charges on your fingers is enough to activate the display if touched, so the
static build up from teh commonly used plastic protective strips on teh
display is also enough to turn the segments on and sometimes keep them stuck
on, but when the unit is powered up all is well. They sometimes also
multiplex teh display, ie turn each segment on and off in turn at a rate
slighlty greater than about 30 hz, so that if something is turned on and off
more than about 30 times per second, the persistance of vision of the human
eye makes it appear to be permanntly on, which saves on more power. And if
you have ever wondered why safety gear is always yellow, its because the
peak optical response of the human eye is around 555 nano metres, ( I
think!! ), ie the colour yellow.
Chris Johnston
North RICHMOND
NSW Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "AVLEC"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 7:49 AM
Subject: KR> LCD problems
> Serge
> Just a short note on your LCD problem. Yesterday I bought one of those
> electronic barometers that has temp, time date, and weather forecast. When
> I
> removed it from its wrapping it had a clear protective strip stuck over
> the
> display with a fake display printed on it. As I removed this strip the
> same
> symptom appeared on the display. I at first wanted to throw the thing
> against the wall but decided to apply a bit of slight pressure to the
> display with my thumb and wala the display cleared perfectly and worked
> fine
> after that.
> Just as well I never threw it against the wall because it turns out that
> it
> didn't have a RH readout which was my primary reason for needing one of
> these things. Back it goes tomorrow!
> Regards
> Dene Collett
> KR2SRT builder
> South africa
> Whisper assembler
> See: www.whisperaircraft.com
> mailto: av...@telkomsa.net
> - Original Message -
> From: "Serge VIDAL"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 13:46
> Subject: KR> Drilling template for Precision Vertical Card Compass
>
>
>> I just made a printable paper template for the Precision Vertical Card
>> Compass. As usual with me, it's a Microsoft Powerpoint file. I'm not a
>> draughtsman by any account, so precision not garanteed. But it's free, so
>> anyone interested, just shoot.
>>
>> (And by the way, could anyone tell me if that compass is going to work
>> well in the Southern Hemisphere, although it is a Northern Hemisphere
>> P/N?)
>>
>> Serge Vidal
>> KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
>> Paris, France
>>
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> Springs
Can you send me your offnet email address, and I will send you a picture of my wood turtle deck, I sent it to the krnet but it complains anout the file size being too big. Chris Johnston - Original Message - From: "Bavo" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 12:36 PM Subject: Re: KR> Springs > Thanks all. > I'd been thinking about clothes pegs also. Could be a cheap solution... > > Cheers, > John. > > John Bavington > Secretary SAAA Chapter 20 > P.O.Box 759 Sunbury 3429. > http://www.saaa.com/ > > http://au.geocities.com/johnbavington > > For the side > frames, I used a small block placed close to the gusset, sqeezed together > the top of a wooden clothes peg, and fitted it upside down in the gap. > > > > > > > > -- > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> polyester resin
Can anyone tell me if polyester resin is safe to use on polyurethane foam,
as far as I know it should be ok, and how well does polyester resin stick to
wood spars, it seems polyester is very very cheap, about $12 dollars per
gallon. I have been told there is a epoxy made by the araldite people LC 3600,
whihc is supposed to be the bee's knees as far as soaking into the wood goes,
has anyone any experience of using this product, its also quite expensive.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond NSW
Australia
KR> Springs
There should be all you need to know about springs in the archives, the
most brillaint idea I came across was someone cut some pvc pipe into strips
and made a circlip type spring, cheap as chips and very effective. I used
dress makers pins and just pinned everything in place, a bit messy and gooi,
you know, the pins with the plastic bubble on top. ( get good quality ones,
even humble pins have quality control, otherwise the plastic bubble comes
off and you are staring at a pin sticking up through your thumb ). If ever I
did it again, I would pre glue slightly oversize gussets to the cross
members, cut to fit and glue. A lot of people don't think this is a good
idea, someone told me the curve of the fuse will not match the gusset, but
if you go into the maths of it all and differentiate and limiting theory,
the section of the curve is so small it would approximate a straight line
anyway. I tried this on a test peice and it seemed to work OK, but I have
never done it on the real thing, so its uncharted territory. For the side
frames, I used a small block placed close to the gusset, sqeezed together
the top of a wooden clothes peg, and fitted it upside down in the gap.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond Australia
- Original Message -
From: "Bavo"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2006 12:59 PM
Subject: KR> Springs
> Hi All,
> I'm about to start gluing the fuse sides together, and am planning on
> using
> springs to hold all the little gusset blocks in place (as per a few of
> your
> web pages).
> Can anyone recommend what type of spring to use? What I really need to
> know
> is how stiff does it need to be (and how 'stiff-ness' is measured)?
>
> Thanks,
> John.
>
>
>
> --
> John Bavington
> Secretary SAAA Chapter 20
> P.O.Box 759 Sunbury 3429.
> http://www.saaa.com/
>
> http://au.geocities.com/johnbavington
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> using loctite
I need to fit some sintered bronze bushing into aluminium plate, the parts are a good interference fit but I thought some loctite would not go astray either. Any information I have found so far on the on the web suggests that you coat the parts with loctite and then press fit together, but I would think this would scrape any adhesive from the joint and there would be no bond, unless tehy are relying on the loctite soaking into the bush and bonding that way. Loctite 603 I think is the one to use as it is specially formulated for oily surfaces. The only other option I can think of is to make the bush slightly thinner than the plate and fill around the edges with loctite. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia.
KR> using loctite
Loctite 609 is the stuff to use, it is supposedly specially formulated
for oily bearings such as sintered bronze bushes, it replaces loctite 603
which had a limited shelf life, and, I think its other problem was it tended
to be hygroscopic.609 is very well suited for press fits and works so I have
found out by disseminating itself into the grain of the material and
augmenting the press fit. It is classed as medium to high strength, maximum
gap fill is .2 millimetres, maximum temperature is 150 degrees C, and sets
in about 30 minutes. It is advisable to have a radiused edge on the leading
edge of the bush other wise when the bush is inserted it tends to scrape the
loctite from the joint, and cures in a confined space by the absence of air,
not recommended for use in oxygen rich environments, and costs about $10
dollars for 10 millilitres. Loctite 620 will also do the job just as well.
The other thing I learn't was just listen to what the kr net sais and use
rod end bearings, ( well, bushed hinges should have worked out reasonably
cheaper, but in practice, its not working out that way ).
Chris Johnston
North Richmond NSW
Australia
- Original Message -
From: "Scott William"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2006 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: KR> using loctite
> Loctite isn't designed to "bond" parts together beyond
> .007 of a gap between those parts. (I think the 660
> will will go to .020) Loctite 640 bearing retainer is
> what i always used on taper shafts, and I find it
> strong enough to eliminate the reliance on the
> retainig keys on those shafts. It is used as a filler.
> It goes in and remains where there is any kind of
> clearance. It dries in the gap, and has enourmous
> sheer strength, but no bond strength.
>
> Do not use it to hold parts together. Use it on
> press-fits to make the fit stronger.
>
> --- Chris Johnston wrote:
>
>> I need to fit some sintered bronze bushing into
>> aluminium plate, the parts are a good interference
>> fit but I thought some loctite would not go astray
>> either. Any information I have found so far on the
>> on the web suggests that you coat the parts with
>> loctite and then press fit together, but I would
>> think this would scrape any adhesive from the joint
>> and there would be no bond, unless tehy are relying
>> on the loctite soaking into the bush and bonding
>> that way. Loctite 603 I think is the one to use as
>> it is specially formulated for oily surfaces. The
>> only other option I can think of is to make the bush
>> slightly thinner than the plate and fill around the
>> edges with loctite.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Johnston
>>
>>
>> North Richmond NSW
>>
>>
>> Australia.
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to
>> krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> please see other KRnet info at
>> http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>
>
> __
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>
KR> Delrin versus Nylon
Can you tell us some more about this material, what type of plastic, density, where do you get it and what cost compared to other plastics. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia. - Original Message - From: "Serge VIDAL" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 7:33 PM Subject: KR> Delrin versus Nylon Oh, and by the way, the shop that sold the sheet to me said that it can be glued, too. Haven't tried it yet. - Réacheminé par Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM le 28/07/2006 11:32 - Serge VIDAL 28/07/2006 11:23 Pour : KRnet cc : Objet : Delrin versus Nylon I just machined my first Delrin part, and I can tell you Delrin is an absolute pleasure to work with, especially compared with plain Nylon! It does not melt easily, and can be sanded very easily, up to a glaze. Another nice thing is it can be found in black, which looks better than the yellowish Nylon. If you have to make Nylon blocks, like rudder pedal mounts, for instance, you should consider Delrin instead. It has the same mechanical properties. I think I will find many applications for this thing, because I simply love it! Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, france ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
Re: Réf. : Re: KR> Delrin versus Nylon
It does seem pretty common, RS Components seem to carry it here, ie the
electronics people, but seems pretty expensive, it machines well and gives
excellent threads, seems to have a useful melting point, machining
tolerances quoted seem to range from a few thousandths of an inch to half a
millimetre, and one site stated it may need "stress relieving " after
machining. A 500mm x 330mm sheet, 15 mm thick is around $200 to $300 dollars
here, seems to be used succesfully for plastic gears. Your initial reports
seemed to suggest some you beaut space age material solving all home
aeroplanes builders problems, but seems as though the stuff has been around
for donkey's years. There does not seem to be any great cost advantage over
Aluminium, thats here locally anyway, ( Australia ).
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia
- Original Message -
From: "Serge VIDAL"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 10:38 PM
Subject: Réf. : Re: KR> Delrin versus Nylon
Delrin is old stuff, and pretty common. I think Aircraft Spruce carries
it, but rods only, not sheets. Cost-wise, it's about 1.5 times more
expensive than Nylon. I have no idea of its density, but it feels about
the same than Nylon.
Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France
"Chris Johnston"
Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net
28/07/2006 12:16
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 28/07/2006 12:17
Pour : "KRnet"
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : Re: KR> Delrin versus Nylon
Can you tell us some more about this material, what type of plastic,
density, where do you get it and what cost compared to other plastics.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
NSW Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "Serge VIDAL"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 7:33 PM
Subject: KR> Delrin versus Nylon
Oh, and by the way, the shop that sold the sheet to me said that it can be
glued, too. Haven't tried it yet.
- Réacheminé par Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM le 28/07/2006 11:32 -
Serge VIDAL
28/07/2006 11:23
Pour : KRnet
cc :
Objet : Delrin versus Nylon
I just machined my first Delrin part, and I can tell you Delrin is an
absolute pleasure to work with, especially compared with plain Nylon! It
does not melt easily, and can be sanded very easily, up to a glaze.
Another nice thing is it can be found in black, which looks better than
the yellowish Nylon. If you have to make Nylon blocks, like rudder pedal
mounts, for instance, you should consider Delrin instead. It has the same
mechanical properties.
I think I will find many applications for this thing, because I simply
love it!
Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, france
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KR> wood turtle deck
If any one is interested, my wood turtle deck finally came out at about 9 lbs, which is a little bit heavier than I was hoping for. Just for the record, if I were doing another one, I would use 1.5/2.0 mm Hoop pine for the ply frames and skin, ( hoop pine seems to be very springy stuff, but it is a certified engineering material ), omit one 5/8 thick wood rollover frame instead of having two, fit the skin as three separate peices, instead of two, for a total cost of about $70, and probably about 7 pounds. The equivalent foam version would cost about $100 for foam sheet, foam block would be about $400-$500 if not more if used, $40 dollars for resin and about $150 for glass and peel ply, so about $300 or so. If cost were not critical, then Gary Morgans core mat decks would be the way to go. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia.
KR> RE: AUSSIE Gathering / Greatest distance
Shameless plug, fly United, the hosties and coffee are a lot better than what you get in a KR. and Qantas. - Original Message - From: "Robin Wills" To: Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 3:02 PM Subject: KR> RE: AUSSIE Gathering / Greatest distance >I figure if I have a Jab 2200 that uses 14 LPH and cruise at > 120KIAS/130-140TAS up high you could go from Hilo, Hawaii to the CONUS > without breaking the 1200Lb MTOW of my KR, though only just... > > According to MSFS 2004 the distance is 2010NM for 16 HOURS flying time > in nil wind. 235 Lts/182kg/400Lbs of fuel. > > In all honesty you would want at least 20 hours of fuel to be > safe...another 80lbs of fuel for around 500lbs fuel total... > > If you can have a KR that weighs in under 550Lbs Empty, it is possible > with an average pilot and fuel for 20 hours...Still, It's a bloody long > flight. > > Now to just get the weight of my KR down... remove the Revmaster in > place of a Jab, the retract's are gone, VFR instruments only, sling > seat, no electrical system no starter hhmm... enough there to keep > me busy. > > I think I will stick to flying around Australia for a while... > > Cheers, > Rob. > > Robin Wills > Second Person, Pacific National > KR-2 19-4594, Ser# N111 > > krvia...@bigpond.com > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> cutting aluminium
I need some advice on cutting some inch aluminium c section, I was going to
have the parts cut by water jet but they want a set up fee, jig fee, cutting
fee, Tuesday fee etc, so took my business elsewhere, so I bought a couple of
1mm thick cutting discs, which are great for cutting alumimium, every one uses
them on aluminium here, as they don't generate much heat, but still want to
check just to be 100 per cent safe, is it ok to cut the metal with a disc, its
6061 T6, I am worried about affecting the temper, common sense sais so long as
it does not get any hotter than ambient, it would be ok.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond NSW
AUSTRALIA
KR> Thanks
Thanks for everyones help on the cutting aluminium question, guess what we are now doing with our new found knowledge! My main concern was how hot you can get teh material before affecting its properties. The thin 1 millimeter wheels are used quite successfully on cutting aluminium for truck bodies etc and do not clog apparently Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia
KR> Turtle Deck
I am surprised at that weight, I would have thought the RR original would have been lighter, makes me wonder if you really know your way around aircraft wood structures, just how light would you be able to make the decking? Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW AUSTRALIA. - Original Message - From: "Wood, Sidney M (Titan) @ TITAN" To: Sent: Thursday, July 06, 2006 12:13 AM Subject: KR> Turtle Deck My turtle deck is a RR factory made part. I added a roll bar made from ¼ inch a/c plywood, two layers for ½ inch thick by 2-1/2 inch wide, glassed 2 BID to the inside at the leading edge. The TD is removable and attached with 10-32 ss screws. Nut plates are attached to the fuselage top 5/8 spruce. TD total weight ready for paint is 8.6 pounds. Sid Wood Tri-gear KR-2 N6242 Mechanicsville, MD USA sidney.w...@l-3com.com "turtle deck from wood will weigh about 7 lbs, my question is, how does this compare weight wise to a composite structure?" I weighed mine last night and it came out to 10 lbs. Mine is larger than most as I am 6'5" and have included head room on top of that. It is 37" W x 20" T and tapers to 13" W x 8" T with a total length of 57". I also incorporated half of my roll over structure into the front bow of the TD to avoid making my canopy mechanism do to much work. I incorporated one stiffening rib that runs down the center on the inside that is 1" x 3". I think you will find the main advantage of building the TD from glass is its ability to form compound shapes. My TD wouldn't "look" right if it went straight from the aft edge of my canopy to the tail so there is a slight bow at the top before it straightens out. Stephen Teate Paradise, Texas ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> hard shell layup
What you say seems quite correct, as I tend to get better results when the glass is left to completely cure, anyhow, I have fabricated some composite material for the fuel tank and lt has a very even tone and no defects or irregularities in the surface texture, I think also that in one or two pieces I made, that uncured resin had polluted the foam, so I make sure the work bench is surgically clean, and am getting much better results. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia. - Original Message - From: "Mark Jones" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:16 AM Subject: RE: KR> hard shell layup > Chris, I also meant to say to be sure you are completely wetting out > your lay-up and when you apply the peel ply that it also is completely > wetted out. If not, that could also be a cause of the light spots you > mention. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Web site: www.flykr2s.com > Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com > > > -Original Message- > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On > Behalf Of Mark Jones > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 9:13 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: RE: KR> hard shell layup > > > > >>-Original Message- >>From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On >>Behalf Of Chris Johnston > > >>just out of curiosity, I have also experimented with removing peel > ply when the resin is cured and when its still green, >if you pick just > the right time when its green, it peels off very easy, but I tend some > times to get some light spots which >look like the glass has pulled a > way from the foam, is this what happens if you remove the peel ply too > soon??? > > > Chris, > I would let the epoxy completely cure before removing the peel ply. You > are most likely separating the glass from the foam pulling it still wet > and causing the light spots. When removing the peel ply, try your > absolute best to keep your hands against the surface of the cured glass > as you pull the peel ply off. This will keep the lifting force from > happening as you peel the peel ply off. Hope this is clear. > > Mark Jones (N886MJ) > Wales, WI > Web site: www.flykr2s.com > Mailto:flyk...@wi.rr.com > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> hard shell layup
Yes, I have researched through the archives befrore I asked this question for some background information, it does not hurt to ask to catch up on the latest, one of my concerns was weight of the hard shell to glass on foam, I have done about two thirds of the fuel tank/front deck, and it has come out about 4 lbs, the tank is just under 60 litre capacity so I estimate, the fuel tank/front deck to be about 8-10 lbs. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia - Original Message - From: "Pitts Eric MSgt 181FW/MXOO" To: Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 12:27 AM Subject: KR> hard shell layup > This has been cussed and discussed may time on and off the net. The > benefit > of hard shelling is when you are working alone and can not wet the whole > wing and get all the glass on at one time. Note this is only known from > research not actual lay-ups your mileage may very. Larry F and I had a > good > discussion about this issue and may give some incite on it also. > > > > > > Eric Pitts > > Tri-axel KR2S > > Terre Haute Ind. > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Turtle deck
Thats what I found, the time to make and research and perfect a method using foam, the loss and cost of material from having a few failures, it was quicker and cheaper I concluded to do things the old fashioned way, I also at that time did not have a reliable source of foam, I found if I lied, the cost of foam dropped by half, ( told them I was a builder and wanted the foam to insulate a hot water heater ). I could have built the deck much lighter but I used 5/8 spruce longerons, when 3/8 would be good enough, but its just to much hassle cutting up the wood, or sourcing it locally, and the two front frames are quite heavy spruce, to act as a roll over cage, when a laminated frame would be stronger and lighter. I wanted to use 2,5 millimeter GL2 birch 5 ply, but its too much headache getting the stuff here, I tried soaking some of this material in water, and after a few hours it bent very easily, and would have made a very very strong skin, not sure what the soaking would have done to its engineering properties, but it seemed to dry out with no ill effects, eventually settled on 2 millimeter 3 ply hoop pine available locally for about $60 for a 8ft x 4ft sheet. Not the optimum choice strength wise, but it is a certified engineering material, and it seems to do the job ok. Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia.. - Original Message - From: "Donald Reid" To: "KRnet" Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: Re: KR> Turtle deck > At 09:13 AM 6/29/2006, you wrote: >> I have just finished the basic structure for the turtle deck >> from wood, it seems pretty strong, I can almost stand on it but am >> not game to try, it weighs about 4 lbs, with the ply skin still to >> be fitted, the sheet of ply for the skin weighs 5 lbs and I will >> use about 2/3 of the sheet, so all up the turtle deck from wood >> will weigh about 7 lbs, my question is, how does this compare >> weight wise to a composite structure? > > I made a female mold and did a layup with three plies of light weight > glass with foam and glass "ribs" at each bay location. It probably > weighed a little less but it was significantly more work. > > > > Don Reid - donreid "at" peoplepc.com > Bumpass, Va > > Visit my web sites at: > > AeroFoil, a 2-D Airfoil Design And Analysis Computer Program: > http://aerofoilengineering.com > > KR2XL construction: http://aerofoilengineering.com/KR/KR2XL.htm > Aviation Surplus: http://aerofoilengineering.com/PartsListing/Airparts.htm > EAA Chapter 231: http://eaa231.org > Ultralights: http://usua250.org > VA EAA Regional Fly-in: http://vaeaa.org > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> hard shell layup
I find it is very easy to apply the slurry, I use a scrap peice of ply
about 2 millimetres thick, by about 6 inches wide, pour the slurry directly
onto the foam, and spread from the centre out to the edges, I then work the
slurry untill all the voids are filled, and scrape of any excess, leaving no
ridges. It takes a bit of scraping and working to get an even finish. My
scraper has each end sanded slighlty high, so that it is does not contact
the foam, you don't get any build up of slurry around the edges leaving
lines and ridges, it really does not need any sanding when dry. I leave to
dry on a very flat surface on grease proof paper, and when dry enough, do
the opposite side of the sheet asap, other wise you tend to get a bent sheet
of foam, if I have to do one side only, then I usually weight it to keep it
flat. I have only done flat sheets so far for cutting up into fuel tanks
etc, have not tried any wing sections. The SAAA here are supposedly running
courses on welding, riveting, glassing, including vacuum bagging etc, but
wouldn't hold out too much hope on this.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond NSW
Australia
- Original Message - e
From: "Dan Heath"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: KR> hard shell layup
>I have never tried the "hard shell" method, because I cannot imagine being
> able to get the slurry on without ridges, and then trying to sand the
> ridges
> without making divots in the foam.
> Don't do it without putting on the slurry as you need a barrier to the air
> that will cause bubbles and you need something to grab on to the pores in
> the foam.
>
> One thing you will find when building your KR, the closer you stick to the
> plans and to proven methods, the faster you will be enjoying your plane.
>
> See N64KR at http://KRBuilder.org - Then click on the pics
> See you in Mt. Vernon - 2006 - KR Gathering
> There is a time for building and a time for FLYING and the time for
> building
> is OVER.
> Daniel R. Heath - Lexington, SC
> ---Original Message---
> from all three methods, is one superior to the other?
> ___
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>
KR> A call to the Aussie crowd
In Sydney there is Camden and the Oaks, Camden is GA nad teh Oaks is
ultralights, hanger rental at Camden is pretty expensive, soem people have
quoted $200 per week, others $ 6o per week, there is also a private strip
at Wedderburn, a few miles SE of Camden, a lot of homebuilts hang out there,
but I am told they are a bit of a clicky old boys club, don't know how true
that is, probably more fiction than fact. Camden is about 1 hour from most
of Sydeny, and teh OAKS about 1 hour 20 mts. You might get some hanger space
with teh ultra light people for a price at The Oaks.
The local authorities don't like teh stick arrangement in kr's and they
require more than the three hinges on teh plans, best thing to do is go into
the casa office in, well, wherever they hide now, and ask what you can do,
as your machine is already built and working, you might get away with having
to do nothing, There are a few gliding sites around CANBERRA, and I am sure
they would cater for ultra lights, search on teh web for ultrlights in
Australia and they have a web sire, RAA something I think it is,
Recreational Aircraft Association I think they call themselves now.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "Serge VIDAL"
To:
Sent: Friday, June 30, 2006 10:58 PM
Subject: KR> A call to the Aussie crowd
> It is with an immense pleasure that I inform you all that in September, I
> will move to Australia, on a two to three years assignment (and hopefully,
> for much longer, if I succeed). The job assignment is in Canberra, but on
> family grounds, I will probably settle in Sydney, and commute.
>
> And since I'm kind of attached to my KR2, I intend to bring it with me.
> This way, I will probably break the world record for the longest distance
> ever travelled by a KR2 (remember, my KR2 was born in South Africa,
> followed me to Tunisia, then France. OK, it travels in a container, but
> hey! You can't have it all, and a record is a record is a record! ; - )
>
> So, guys, I need a little help from you to prepare the move.
>
> Here are the first questions that come in mind:
>
> Customs:
>
> Can I import my KR2 in my move container? (I'm talking red tape;
> technically, it works, I've done it before).
> What should I declare it as? An aircraft? A homebuilt aircraft project? A
> microlight project?
>
> Pilot's license:
>
> How do I convert my European (JAR) PPL in Australia?
>
> Aircraft ownership
>
> Can you own and register an aircraft in Australia when you have a 4 years
> work visa? (Just checking, in South Africa it was not the case).
>
> Insurance
>
> How much does aircraft insurance cost? Who provides such insurance (broker
> names in the Sydney/Canberra area would be helpful)
>
> Airfields
>
> What general aviation airfields are there around Sydney and Canberra?
> Which ones are best for a homebuilt?
>
> Is it easy to find some hangar space?
>
> How much does hangar space cost?
>
> KR2 requirements
>
> I understand that the Australian CAA has some specific requirements on the
> KR2. So far, I have heard of the followings:
>
> - CG envelope (what is the limitation in Australia, exactly?)
> - Elevator hinges (5 hinges instead of 3, is that correct?)
> - WAFs-to-WAFs bolts (each spar linked by 2 long bolts instead of 4
> small bolts, with a crusher piece in-between)
>
> Are there any more requirements that I don't know about?
>
> Is it possible to raise the maximum take-off weight above the limit
> specified by Rand Robinson?
>
> Also, in general, for experimental aircraft:
>
> - Is it a requirement that the firewall be made of stainless steel?
> - Can experimentals fly in controlled airspace in Australia?
>
> Certification process
>
> Is there a homebuilder's association (PFA or EAA style) in Australia?
>
> Is there a homebuilder's club in Sydney or Canberra?
>
> Who do you talk to for certification? Is it the CAA, or a homebuilder's
> association like in the UK?
>
> Are there normally inspections during the construction process?
>
> Can you test the aircraft yourself, or do you have to use a test pilot?
>
> What is the testing procedure?
>
> Do you have to go through a noise test? If yes, how?
>
> Aircraft radio license
>
> Do you have to have you radios tested individually? If yes, by whom?
> Do you have to have your radio installation tested? If yes, by whom?
> Is it a requirement to have a transponder?
>
> Any other relevant info is most welcome.
>
> Serge Vidal
> KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
> Paris, France
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> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> SANDING SANDING SANDING
Find a flat board about 4 ft wide, glue on some 60 grit I think it was that I used, may have been finer, aluminium oxide paper, glue a vertical piece on the opposite side to keep your board flat and true, let dry and sand the whole width of the fuse, from front to back, one section at a time, should take no more than three hours to do the whole fuse, that includes coffee brakes. Highly rcommended to wear a mask, lots of spruce dust which really dries the lungs and nose out. A rounded edge on the front and back sides of the board stops any embarrasing catches on the edge of cross members and allows your board to slide easily over buildups of glue and any slightly misaligned cross members. When it comes to gluing on the ply, the best thing I found was to position the sheet with two staples, and weigh down the sheet with house bricks, position the bricks so that when you get a nice even bead of glue squishing out along the join/seam, then the brick is in the right place with the right amount of pressure, my staples were probably too small to do a good job, but the bricks work pretty good, good staples would probably work even better. After the glue starts to go tacky, stick on some rubber gloves and run your finger around the seam to give the glue a nice rounded fillet. The trick to a good glue job seems to be to have a perfectly flat and flush surface to glue your ply too. Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia - Original Message - From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 11:45 AM Subject: Re: KR> SANDING SANDING SANDING >If the sides were tapered in at the bottom, there is so much > more sanding to get the bottom longerons flat across the bottom > ( crosswise ) that you need to do. Go figure, Virg > > On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 20:40:56 -0400 James Ferris writes: >> How do you figure that? If the sides vertical that meansthat the >> bottom >> is wider and therefore more area to sand. >> Jim >> On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 16:36:25 -0400 VIRGIL N SALISBURY >> >> writes: >> > If the sides were vertical, sanding would much less, Virg >> > >> > On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 11:13:19 -0400 "jg7...@mindspring.com" >> > writes: >> > > I thought that it would only take a few hours of sanding the >> > > fuselage bottom to fit the skin but it looks like it may take a >> >> > > week. My god that is a lot of sanding! Maybe I am just being to >> >> > much >> > > of a perfectionist , my wife says I am anal but I just want to >> > build >> > > the best plane I can. >> > > >> > > >> > > John Godwin >> > > jg7...@mindspring.com >> > > ___ >> > > Search the KRnet Archives at >> > > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> > krnet-le...@mylist.net >> > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL >> > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury >> > Miami ,Fl >> > >> > ___ >> > Search the KRnet Archives at >> > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> krnet-le...@mylist.net >> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > >> > >> >> >> ___ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> > > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury > Miami ,Fl > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Turtle deck
I have just finished the basic structure for the turtle deck from wood, it seems pretty strong, I can almost stand on it but am not game to try, it weighs about 4 lbs, with the ply skin still to be fitted, the sheet of ply for the skin weighs 5 lbs and I will use about 2/3 of the sheet, so all up the turtle deck from wood will weigh about 7 lbs, my question is, how does this compare weight wise to a composite structure? Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia
KR> hard shell layup
I have tried the hard shell layup method, placing the glass over wet slurry, and glassing straight onto the foam, I cannot detect any real difference in the end result from all three methods, is one superior to the other? The only difference I could find is the hard shell was fractionally heavier than the other two methods, I thought maybe glassing straight onto the foam gave a better bond, but its very had to tell, I am glassing onto urethane foam of about 70 lbs per cubic metre density. just out of curiosity, I have also experimented with removing peel ply when the resin is cured and when its still green, if you pick just the right time when its green, it peels off very easy, but I tend some times to get some light spots which look like the glass has pulled a way from the foam, is this what happens if you remove the peel ply too soon??? Chris Johnston North Richmond NSW Australia
Re: Réf. : Re: KR> Building Upbate
Serge reports that :
'Congrats. Although I don't believe a word of that minus 5C story.
Actually, you are just trying to deter me from emigrating to Australia. "
Very true, it has regularly been -1 and zero here at Richmond, 50 miles
west of Sydney, and at a relatives place at Mudgee, about 180 miles to the
NW of Sydney, it has been down to -10, with urethane foam at $1000 dollars a
cubic metre, ( so I made the turtle deck from wood, almost finished ), why
anyone would want to come here, beats me??? Oh and during summer, I have
been gliding in 45-47 degrees C heat, which is not hot by world standards,
but still pretty bad, which reminds me, I must fill out that green card form
sometime
Chris Johnston
North Richmond NSW
Australia
- Original Message -
From: "Serge VIDAL"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: Réf. : Re: KR> Building Upbate
Phil,
Congrats. Although I don't believe a word of that minus 5C story.
Actually, you are just trying to deter me from emigrating to Australia.
;-)
Serge Vidal
KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud"
Paris, France
"Phil Matheson"
Envoyé par : krnet-bounces+serge.vidal=sagem@mylist.net
18/06/2006 02:18
Veuillez répondre à KRnet
Remis le : 18/06/2006 02:34
Pour : "KRnet"
cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM)
Objet : Re: KR> Building Upbate
Well, I can now say I have a complete KR2,( less cowl)
My only main items are , inner wing fairings, gap seals.
Cowl is being made and will be a week or two, hope to start on my inner
wing
fairing tonight , But it's minus 5 C and a bit cool in the shed.
So I'm filling and sanding sanding sanding,
Phillip Matheson
0408665880 (cell)
VHPKR
Australia.
mathes...@dodo.com.au
NEW WEB PAGE
www.philskr2.50megs.com
http://www.vw-engines.com/
OLD WEB PAGE
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html
___
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KR> Thanks.
Thanks everyone for your replies on my recent questions on wing attachment fittings, etc etc etc, unfortunately some of the posts I sent seem to be incomplete, I have checked my sent box and they are all intact but the copy which came back from the kr net has parts missing in all of them, so something must have happened on the way to or from the US, but I wont bore everyone with sending the same junk again.Thanks for your help. Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia.
KR> cad packages
Dont know anything about any Sunami, but cost of petrol is very very
very bad, we sell, ( Australia that is )apparently quite an amount of oil to
China for a mear pittance, and we are supposedly quite self sufficeint in
oil, we only need to import some oil for specialist applications apparently,
the IMF is getting worried that the government will buckle and offer tax
releif on petrol, sounds like a world wide price fixing scam to me. In Saudi
Arabia its 21c per litre. How much is it in the US? when I was there it was
76 cents per gallon, here, then, it was 76 cents per litre, and the OPEC guy
tells us there is no increase in demand and no problem with supply meeting
demand, so who's talking the market up Western government will have to
learn to stop milking the bowser for easy money.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
Australia
- Original Message -
From: "Larry&Sallie Flesner"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 11:25 PM
Subject: Re: KR> cad packages
> At 07:45 AM 5/5/2006, you wrote:
>> I find you do not really need a cad package for kr work,
>>Chris Johnston
>> +++
>
>
> Quite right. I had most of my KR built before I even got a computer
> as did hundreds before me. No need to make the project any more
> complicated or time consuming than necessary. It's not brain
> surgery.
>
> Did that one foot Sunami wave do any damage down under? :-)
>
> Larry Flesner
>
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> gussets
YEP, that was one method I tried and it worked great! I also made up a little tool with about a 50 degree acute angle on its face and just slid it up along the excessg glue while wet and just scraped it out, that worked ok too, and a slight radius on the gusset and they fit like a glove. Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia - Original Message - From: "Larry&Sallie Flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 12:40 AM Subject: Re: KR> gussets > At 09:25 AM 5/4/2006, you wrote: >> Some time ago I listed a posting on fitting cross members with >> gussets already fitted, and somebody replied saying that the >> curvature of the side frame would pose a problem, >> I really think the core of the problem is being missed, being >> that the number of variables are being reduced by fixing the >> gussets to the cross member, its much easier to fit one cross >> member and its associated bits, than to try and fit three pieces >> which will slip and slop and slide all over the place, how you want >> to mate those components together with the side frame is a minor >> problem and can be done by whatever method you see fit, you can >> always fit the cross member and then the gussets later, ( and this >> works cause thats the way I did it ), but then you have to get >> excess dried glue out of the joint, which in itself is not impossible to >> do, >> Chris johnston > +++ > > When I started my project, the sides and bottom of the "boat" were > completed > without gussets installed. I too had many joints that had excess glue > squeezed > out. Rather than remove the excess glue I simply sanded a slight bevel on > that > edge of the gusset to make it seat properly. Within reason, the gap > filling qualities > of the epoxies we us leave some room for error. Also, with nearly every > gusset > joint in the boat having a ply backing, I suspect it's really not > that big of a deal. > For the few joints that aren't ply backed, a small piece of triangle > cut ply could > be added quite easily. 209 hours on my airframe without a problem would > indicate to me that it works o.k. > > Larry Flesner > > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> scrounging for parts
Cannot recollect any drawings for WAF's in the plans, someone told me
there was also a section on sanding the lower longeron flush to fit the
floor, but have never been able to find that section either, will have
another search though, it may be hidden away somewhere which I havent spent
much time perousing through yet. I am surprised how quick it has taken to
get to the "I need WAF's " stage
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "D F Lively"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Saturday, May 06, 2006 1:15 AM
Subject: Re: KR> scrounging for parts
> Chris:
>
> The plans should have drawings for the WAF's but mine does not have the
> diameters spelled out for the aft spar holes but they are AN-3 bolts. You
> should be able to get the dimensions of the grip diameters from an AS
> catalog but beware of tolerances as the WAF's on my bird are undersized
> for the bolds I got by a few thousandths and need enlargement so as not to
> be an interferance fit. Probably need to give a look at a good "Fits &
> Clearance" table and go from
> there--- With CARE.
>
> Don
>
>
> Chris Johnston wrote:
>
>> I am on the scrounge for parts, I need some undercarriage fittings,
>> the Diehl ones for fitting to the spars, if anyone has an old or disused
>> set I would be interested, is the length of the kr2 gear legs the same as
>> the length of the kr2s, and can you make the legs from Aluminium, failing
>> all that, it might be safer just to buy the complete Diehl gear set and
>> be done with it, and yes, I have been very bad in that I have not checked
>> the archives on this.
>> I am also wanting wing attachment fittings, I would think it would be
>> pretty easy to make thses at home, send a cad file to the CNC water jet
>> guy and have them cut out, I am told they can do them here to +/- 2 thou,
>> will the bolt holes need reaming? and what s the best way to do this, fit
>> them in a jig and do them all in one or do them individually? Any
>> advice greatly appreciated, and yes, again, I have not checked the
>> archives.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Johnston
>>
>> North Richmond
>>
>> Australia
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> spar wood
My plans BOM and spruce kit show for the centre spar vertical pieces 1 x 1/2 x 2 5/32 x 30 inches, and 30 inches is not enough as far as I can tell Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Monday, May 08, 2006 2:14 PM Subject: KR> spar wood Hey guys, Since I dont have a set of plans, can anybody tell me what wood I would need to order to build a set of KR2S spars - The center ones, front and rear. The only difference is that they will be 10 feet long - the outboard spars will be standard length. I plan to build the 18% new airfoil so will be 8" tall I believe. I hope to order the wood for the center spars within the next month or two but need the info. I have a set of stock spars to get some of the measurements as far as spacing from. Thanks.Bill and 41768 - 330 hrs and counting... Bill, I believe the front inboards are total 2" tall by 2 5/32" wide then your 10' times this by 2 for top cap and bottom. The inner pieces are 1/2" by 2 5/32 by 60". Your outboard front is 2" tall by 1'' wide by your 10' again times that by 2 for top and bottom caps. The inner pieces are 1/2" by 2" by 72" and 3/4" by 3/4" by 72". Center rear spar is 2 pcs2" x 2 5/32" x 10' center forward spar 1 pcs1/2" x 2 5/32 x 60" center forward spar vert pcs 2pcs 2" x 1'' x 78"outer front spars 1pcs 1/2" x 2" x 72" outer front spar vert pcs 1pcs 3/4" x 3/4" x 72" outer front spar vert pcs 2psc 2" x 1" x 10" rear center spars 1pcs 1/2" x 1/2" x 36"rear center vert pcs 1pcs 1/2" x 1" x 60" rear center vert pcs 4pcs 1" x 7/8" x 79" outer rear spars 1pcs 1/2" x 1" x 60" outer rear spar vert pcs 1pcs 1/2" x 1/2" x 60"outer rear spar vert pcs The kr-2s printout from AS says 42" on the last two but I found out that I needed more when i built mine so I added the extra that I needed to finish. I am actually building all my spars right now so I found out the hard way that I needed more material to finish them:). If anyone finds a mistake in my little list please correct it for Bill. I would hate for anyone else to go through having to buy MORE wood cause you didnt get enough to begin with. David Swanson bdazzca...@aol.com ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> scrounging for parts
> The drawings for the WAF's are on page 23 (FWD) and 24 (AFT) of the > builders > manual, and the bit on the lower longerons is on page 14. I am sure the drawings are on page 23, but there does not seem to be page 23, there is page 24, it may be somewhere else in the manual, I will have to check all the page numbers and account for. I have never undone the ring binder, so they should not be out of order or lost. Page 14 states, " It will be necesarry to work the cross section of the longerons in order to obtain a good glue joint with the belly plywood" The term "belly plywood" suggests to me the outer skin only, if the wording was such that it stated " belly plywood and cockpit floor", then I would thiink it would mean both. The belly of the aeroplane is one thing, and the cockpit floor is another entity altogether. Sanding top and bottom of the longeron, seems to leave not a lot of section left, but I suppose what is sanded away is made up for by the ply skin, anyway, like I said, I added some spruce wedges to the longeron and built it up to get a flush mount for the floor. At the end of the paragraph, they state "Allow adequate cure time for the cross members before starting the belly skin fit", the use of the word "belly", in association with "skin", suggests that they, and the paragraph they have written, are refering to the outer skin only. But anyway, my interpretation of American English is not that good. How did Ken Rand fit the floor? Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia - Original Message - From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 12:12 AM Subject: Re: KR> scrounging for parts >Looks like it is time for us ALL to reread the Plans and Manual > again, Virg > > On Mon, 8 May 2006 09:44:00 -0400 "Allen Wiesner " > writes: >> >Cannot recollect any drawings for WAF's in the plans, someone told >> me >> >there was also a section on sanding the lower longeron flush to fit >> the >> >floor >> >> Chris: >> >> The drawings for the WAF's are on page 23 (FWD) and 24 (AFT) of the >> builders >> manual, and the bit on the lower longerons is on page 14. >> >> Allen G. Wiesner KR-2SS/TD S/N 1118 >> 65 Franklin Street >> Ansonia, CT 06401-1240 >> >> (203) 732-0508 >> >> flash...@usadatanet.net >> >> >> >> ___ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> > > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury > Miami ,Fl > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Contact Details Chris Gardner
Would anyone have contact details, email etc, for Chris Gardner, I like the look of his aeroplane, I think he is in Cnada somewhere. Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia.
KR> gussets
Some time ago I listed a posting on fitting cross members with gussets
already fitted, and somebody replied saying that the curvature of the side
frame would pose a problem, I did mean to reply but have been lost with other
activities of late, and I know, its a subject which has been flogged to death
time and time again, so if you are disinterested, just don't bother to read any
further, But, if you fitted a mathematical curve to the longeron so that any
infinite point could be plotted by a set of co ordinates, using a axis system
as a frame of reference, and at the point of intersection of the centre line of
the cross member with the longeron, the curve was differentiated to obtain the
gradient ( ie, the slope of the tangent to the curve at the intersection point,
), and the same exercise was executed for the leading edge of the fwd gusset,
and the trailing edge of the aft gusset, ( to give the maximum deviation in the
gradients ), and compared all three values, then you would more than likely
find the difference in all three gradientsd to be next to zip. What this means
is that over the short distance of the curve involved over the length of the
gussets, the deviation of the curve from that of a straight line approximation
is so small to be meaningless. However, if you were really concerned about the
matter, then you could take to the problem with a sanding block and face a
small taper on the leading and trailing blocks so that, in plan view anyway,
you would have three straight lines approximating the curve, but if you are
really convinced that there is a serious bend in the thing then you may as well
keep right on sanding and sand of the high points and fit some sort of a curve
on the gussets. I would have thought that the error induced by the glue line
would have a greater order of significance than any deviation of the curve from
its straight line approximation but then, what would I know, I only have a
small number ( Two ) of brain cells, and these are fully occupied with walking
and talking, so not much spare capacity at all on these higher order things.
I really think the core of the problem is being missed, being that the
number of variables are being reduced by fixing the gussets to the cross
member, its much easier to fit one cross member and its associated bits, than
to try and fit three pieces which will slip and slop and slide all over the
place, how you want to mate those components together with the side frame is a
minor problem and can be done by whatever method you see fit, you can always
fit the cross member and then the gussets later, ( and this works cause thats
the way I did it ), but then you have to get excess dried glue out of the
joint, which in itself is not impossible to do, we all have different resources
at hand, and different levels of experience, so the best I can say is whatever
method you get to work for you is probably the best way to get the job done!
Chris johnston
North Richmond
Australia.
KR> cad packages
I find you do not really need a cad package for kr work, but if you really
want one, then autocad is quite good, I self taught myself and can do pretty
much most things, its not hard, but you do need to be consistent, and the time
spent learning it is probably better off spent building your aeroplane, I
learn't it for work and after some experience did things like take 2d pcb
drawings and convert them into 3d models for documentation, assembly reference
and overlay etc etc etc. I used teh work version for legitimate purposes, but
bought a illicit copy for $40 of the internet for home use, autodesk cannot
complain as my talents and abilities convinced two persons if not more, that
autocad was the way to go. I cannot afford or justify 7 grand just for home
use, and there were no lite or student versions around then. Turbocad is also
quite good and affordable, and works much like autocad. I found a bug in
autocad, when its booting up if you boot it up again, it all works fine untill
you shut it down, it then has hernias because there are dual processes running,
it turns them off and then finds the process is still running ( because you
started that process twice ), and so falls in a heap. I told autodesk about it
and the next release didn't have this problem any more. There are a lot of
cheapi packages around now, search cad magazines, ( amazingly enough, such
valuable sources of information seem to have vanished around here, but that
happens a lot in this part of the world ), to find what is available, and there
are a lot of student versions around and "Lite" versions also. If you have cad
skills, then you can put them to use in building you plane, but its not really
worthwhile to go out of your way to learn cad, unless you have a passionate
interest in cad AND building aeroplanes.
Chris Johnston
North Richmond
Australia
KR> tables
Someone wrote in asking about tables, because thay had a 1/8 inch sag in the middle of theirs??? This is how I did mine to overcome that very problem, I went to the local tiimber mechant and bought two lengths of pine about 8 inches deep by 1/2 inch wide, and about 10 feet long, stood them up side by side on the shed floor, spaced them apart with about five lengths of the same material about 2 1/2 feet long, so you end up with a box, 10 feet long, 2 1/2 feet wide, and ten inches deep, screwed and glued it all together, and when dry, depending on the quality of the timber, which is pretty crappy in this part of the world, you may have to sand the top so that everything is flush, and then fitted a sheet of this compressed chip board stuff which they use for flooring, which is available in slightly less than 12 foot lengths, to the top as a bench top, and then screwed and glued again. The 8 inch deep pine acts as a beam over the length of the bench to prevent any sagging. The cross peices do nothing other than to hold the side bits vertical so they can do there anti sagging job. You need a reasonable amount of depth in the beams, other wise they will do exactly that, sag. When dry, fit some legs with screwable feet to make minor adjustments to the table, and stand up, fit a steel rule on its edge across one end, wirth a second rule just behind, and sight to check both rules are parallel, move the second in successive steps along the table and continue checking for true, and adjust the screwable feet to keep out any warps or twists. Something the manual does not tell you, is KEEP THE BENCH PERPENDICLULAR TO YOUR PLUMB BOB. Works liks a charm. The 12 foot length is a bit short for side frames, a bit hangs over the back but is no problem, as when you fit the tailpost, the overhang makes it easy to tip it all up side down, I made my bench three feet high, which is great for the side frames, but when you get the boat section done, you are always having to reach up and over the side, so two and a half feet is about a good height, you may have to bend over a bit more for the side frames, but it is much easier to do this than to have to keep reaching up all the time, or else take Mohammud to the mountain and build a small six inch catwalk on the floor around you boat, this works great too, just dont forget when you go to step off you are working on elevation. Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia.
KR> scrounging for parts
I am on the scrounge for parts, I need some undercarriage fittings, the Diehl ones for fitting to the spars, if anyone has an old or disused set I would be interested, is the length of the kr2 gear legs the same as the length of the kr2s, and can you make the legs from Aluminium, failing all that, it might be safer just to buy the complete Diehl gear set and be done with it, and yes, I have been very bad in that I have not checked the archives on this. I am also wanting wing attachment fittings, I would think it would be pretty easy to make thses at home, send a cad file to the CNC water jet guy and have them cut out, I am told they can do them here to +/- 2 thou, will the bolt holes need reaming? and what s the best way to do this, fit them in a jig and do them all in one or do them individually? Any advice greatly appreciated, and yes, again, I have not checked the archives. Chris Johnston North Richmond Australia
KR> HINGES
I am told the rod end bearings have a habit of cracking and failing, and
have a habit of working loose, any truth to these statements? I would have
thought that if enough were used on the control surface, say 6 or 7 for the
elevator and four say for the rudder, then failure would not be an option, and
what I am told is an old wives tail.
I also want some clarification on hinge bolt holes, the hinge half on the
fixed portion of the surface, ie tailplane, has bolt holes diagonally opposing,
while on the hinge half fixed to the movable surface, ie elevator, the plans
show two bolts separated vertically only, am I correct in what I say, I would
like to make doubly sure I am right because it takes ages to get another piece
of wood if I drill in the wrong place! Fortunately, I have not had to buy any "
other pieces of wood " yet!!
Still deciding, but tend to think the rod end bearing is just far superior
to anything else, but keep getting told these bad reports on them.
Chris Johnston
Richmond NSW
Australia.
KR> KR-2 is my first homebuilt
I used the cross member widths from the plans, I measured from the plans
using a pair of dividers, and just marked out 4 times with the dividers on
the cross member I was making. On the shorter cross members, run through the
process 3 or 4 times as a small error in measurement from the plans is x by
4, worked out very precise for me, but that is not to say you will find this
method comfortable. Be careful to make sure you do not measure a lower cross
member width when actually making a top cross member. I also marked the
centre of the member with a pencil line around all four sides, very very
useful later for alighning purposes. The other tricky part I found in the
process was making sure the ends of the member were chamfered to the correct
angle, I'm not clever enough to think of an easy way to do this so just had
to cut and fit, cut and fit until it fitted
Chris Johnston
Richmond NSW
Australia
- Original Message -
From: "Kristofer Leirfallom"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 4:44 AM
Subject: KR> KR-2 is my first homebuilt
>I just purchased, the KR-2, my first homebuilt. The sides are already
> built. The plans are not real clear on the length of the cross
> members, they show some but not all the lengths. Are the lengths real
> critical?
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> Delivery Problem repsonse
Some time ago I placed a posting on the krnet, "Delivery problems Aircraft
spruce". This matter was brought to the attention of Jim Irwin, the manager of
Aircraft Spruce, and within a day or so he had conducted a thorough
investigation with his IT and overseas sales staff to try to resolve the
problem. The cause of the problem arose from my internet connection dropping
out while placing an order, which happens here fairly frequently, combined with
my enthusiasm for following the order up with numerous phone calls to the US,
and a number of quotes already in place which caused AS no end of confusion.
Any way, the matter has been resolved now and both parties are happy, AS
being very understanding and agreeable in seeking an amicable solution to the
problem. Unfortunately I have been extremely busy and have not had the time to
follow things up as quickly as Jim has been able to look into things at his
end, so any delay in resolving this issue is entirely due to me. Things are a
bit quieter now, so I can get back to aircraft building. The Customs and
Quarrantine people here also cause inappropriate delays in these things as AS
can mill. cut, pack, process and ship an order seven and a half thousand miles
across the Pacific in about two weeks from placing the order, yet on arrival in
Sydney it takes on average about another four to six weeks, or more sometimes,
before delivery.
Chris Johnston
Sydney Australia
KR> ruder post
I was talking to a guy in Queensland last night and he noticed the same difference, pondered over the problem for a while, and he eventually gave up and just used the same width top and bottom, he tells me there are a few grey areas in the plans and this is one of them, soo I guess I will do the same. Chris Johnston Sydney Australia. - Original Message - From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 12:31 PM Subject: Re: KR> ruder post >use the width top and bottom the same. Virg > > On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 11:57:03 +1000 "Chris Johnston" > writes: >> I checked the KR2S plans again, and measured with dividers, ( >> from the >> plan view ), the difference in width between the upper and lower >> longerons >> at the front of the rudder post, and the top is wider than the >> bottom by >> about 30 percent. Yet in the assembly manual there is a >> "perspective" view >> which seems to show no difference in width, the KR2 plans, again >> from the >> plan view show no difference in width Confusing! >> >> >> >> >> Chris Johnston >> >> >> >> RICHMOND AUSTRALIA >> - Original Message - >> From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY" >> To: >> Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:23 PM >> Subject: Re: KR> ruder post >> >> >> >the rudder post on the K R 1 was tilted back 7 Degrees. >> Taper >> > front to back >> > of the post was to meet the aft Fus when sprung in. From above >> the Fus, >> > the only >> > taper was from the top of the Fus to the tip. Check the top view >> of the >> > plans again, Virg >> > >> > On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:06:50 +1000 "Chris Johnston" >> > writes: >> >> I need some advice on the kr2s rudder post, it looks as >> though >> >> from the plans the the section of the rudder post buried in the >> aft >> >> fuselage must be tapered, as the top longerons are wider than >> the >> >> bottom longerons, but this section must also be bevelled, how far >> up >> >> do you run the bevel? it looks as though on the kr2, that there >> is >> >> no taper on the lower part of the rudder post? I have searched >> the >> >> archives and not found anything useful and have found no >> >> construction photos either of anything usefull, but I may have >> just >> >> been looking in all the wrong places. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Chris >> Johnston >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Richmond >> >> Australia >> >> ___ >> >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> krnet-le...@mylist.net >> >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL >> > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury >> > Miami ,Fl >> > >> > ___ >> > Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to >> krnet-le...@mylist.net >> > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > >> >> >> ___ >> Search the KRnet Archives at >> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> > > > Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL > www.lubedealer.com/salisbury > Miami ,Fl > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> ruder post
I need some advice on the kr2s rudder post, it looks as though from the plans the the section of the rudder post buried in the aft fuselage must be tapered, as the top longerons are wider than the bottom longerons, but this section must also be bevelled, how far up do you run the bevel? it looks as though on the kr2, that there is no taper on the lower part of the rudder post? I have searched the archives and not found anything useful and have found no construction photos either of anything usefull, but I may have just been looking in all the wrong places. Chris Johnston Richmond Australia
KR> ruder post
I checked the KR2S plans again, and measured with dividers, ( from the
plan view ), the difference in width between the upper and lower longerons
at the front of the rudder post, and the top is wider than the bottom by
about 30 percent. Yet in the assembly manual there is a "perspective" view
which seems to show no difference in width, the KR2 plans, again from the
plan view show no difference in width Confusing!
Chris Johnston
RICHMOND AUSTRALIA
- Original Message -
From: "VIRGIL N SALISBURY"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: KR> ruder post
>the rudder post on the K R 1 was tilted back 7 Degrees. Taper
> front to back
> of the post was to meet the aft Fus when sprung in. From above the Fus,
> the only
> taper was from the top of the Fus to the tip. Check the top view of the
> plans again, Virg
>
> On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 13:06:50 +1000 "Chris Johnston"
> writes:
>> I need some advice on the kr2s rudder post, it looks as though
>> from the plans the the section of the rudder post buried in the aft
>> fuselage must be tapered, as the top longerons are wider than the
>> bottom longerons, but this section must also be bevelled, how far up
>> do you run the bevel? it looks as though on the kr2, that there is
>> no taper on the lower part of the rudder post? I have searched the
>> archives and not found anything useful and have found no
>> construction photos either of anything usefull, but I may have just
>> been looking in all the wrong places.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Chris Johnston
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Richmond
>> Australia
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at
>> http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>>
>>
>
>
> Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL
> www.lubedealer.com/salisbury
> Miami ,Fl
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> Clamps for holding gussets
I was only thinking about this the other day, someone said "be original"
so I thought why not glue the gussets onto the cross members first, then
when dry you only have one face to square up to fit the inside of the
longeron instead of two gussets and a cross member. It would be much easier
to get a flush fit of the gussets with the cross member instead of getting
all those miniscule mismatches, the plans give the cross member widths
accurately enough to do this, you could use a mass produced standard size
gusset instead of individually fitting each one, the gussets may have to be
slightly oversize to allow for fitting...BUT, I haven't tried it
so it may not work.
Chris Johnston
Richmond Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "Jim"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: KR> Clamps for holding gussets
>I went to Harbor freight yesterday and was looking for some small clamps
>and saw some labeled Hobby clamps .
> I don't know if anyone else has used them before however I thought I'd
> give them a try and they work prefectly for holding the gusset blocks in
> place. On the outside from the gusset I cut a block parallel to the gusset
> angle put two sided tape on the back and it worked great .
> If anyone is intreseted the Item number is 43031 I they were three
> something $ for three 1-1/2" , 3" , 4-1/2".
> I'm just getting ready to skin the bottom I wished I'd stumbled on these
> earlier.
>
> JimB KR 2S Wichita Ks
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> Delivery problems - Aircraft Spruce
Any one experience delivery problems with Aircraft Spruce? I ordered 1
gallon of T-88, and they sent the T-88 and 125 ft of spruce capstrip, some 600
dollars worth They said the special instructions requested 125 ft of spruce
so they sent it as well as the glue, didn't know you could place an order
through special instructions!!! The quote number included in the special
instructions had expired 1 month previously, and the order which the special
instruction referred to being already shipped and received
Somehow or other the special instructions for the previous order has gotten
into the order for the glue, I certainly didn't put it there,or any idea how I
could access that information to get it to put there.
I told AS they must have software faults or there error trapping is not up
to scratch, but they deny their is anything wrong with their software or what
they have delivered.
There order notification stated 1 gallon of T-88 and nothing else.
Their shipping notification states 1 gallon of T-88 and 125 ft of spruce
capstrip! I alerted them to the descrepancy asap, but they don't want to know
anything about it. Have not heard from them since.
Chris Johnston
Richmond Australia
KR> gussets....
I had a SAAA, (sport aircraft association of Australia ) inspector inspect my work and he was impressed, but I asked the same question and he said it did not really matter, but other sources of information I have indicate the grain should be at 45 degrees to say a vertical member and a longeron. I would feel happier with the grain at 45 degrees as I would think there would be less tendancy for the gusset to split along the grain. I am no aeronautical engineer so I cannot really say what is right and what is wrong. Chris Johnston Richmond Australia. - Original Message - From: To: Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2006 4:09 PM Subject: KR> gussets > HI, > > I have a question... does it matter which way the grain of the > gussets > are going? I just took a piece of my 5/8 spruce stock and started cutting > at > 90 and 45 degree angles... is this exceptable? > > > David Swanson > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Canopies
Does anyonw know how much Dart charge for a dragonfly canopy? I could
not see any proces listed, apparently Janette Rand has a lightweight canopy
for the KR2S to compete with the Dragonfly, so I have been told by other
canopy manufactureres, but it seems she is in incommunicado. The RR one is I
think about $375, so that sounds good to me. Todd seems to be very keen to
do business but I much prefer the Dragonfly/KR2S style as it would act like
a wing section and generate, hopefully some lift, Todds seem to be much
rounder at the front, He also has a dragonfly, but its not an exact copy, he
tells me he is quite happy to take the canopy to the airport so you are
charged airport to airport delivery only.
I also contacted the people on Mark Langfords web site, forgotten who
they are now, but they wanted $750 US for a dragonfly.
There are also some people in Victoria, ( Australia ) manufacturing a
thing called a Cobra Arrow, and I know that a canopy for it has been fitted
to a KR2S, but thay want 2-3 thousand dollars per copy.
Don't know any other canopy sources!
Chris
Johnston
Richmond
Australia.
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Jones"
To: "KRnet"
Sent: Sunday, February 05, 2006 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: KR> Parts supplyers.
> Use a Dragonfly canopy. Here is the link: http://www.dart-industries.com/
>
> Mark Jones (N886MJ)
> Wales, WI USA
> E-mail me at flyk...@wi.rr.com
> Visit my NEW
> KR-2S CorvAIRCRAFT web site at www.flykr2s.com
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "dubi gefen"
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:24 PM
> Subject: KR> Parts supplyers.
>
>
>> Hello Kr's
>>
>> I would like to buy canopy for KR-2S:
>> How know which company can supply these parts.
>>
>> Regards
>> Dubi Gefen
>> ___
>> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
>> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
>> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
>
> ___
> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp
> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net
> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
>
KR> Canopies
Yes I do, but you forget, this is Australia, they only invented electricity here last week! Chris Johnston. Richmond Australia. - Original Message - From: "Frank Ross" To: "KRnet" Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 8:29 PM Subject: Re: KR> Canopies > Chris and others, > Be creative. Look at the beautiful canopy that Dan and Jerry built. > Consider the discarded Pulsar canopy that Larry Flesner used to build his > plane. There are a lot of possibilities that are less expensive and more > fun, plus make your KR a one-of-a-kind.. > Look at everything you see with eyes that ask "Can I use that?" > That's why it's called "experimental." > Frank > > > Chris Johnston wrote: > Does anyonw know how much Dart charge for a dragonfly canopy? I could >> > Don't know any other canopy sources! > > Chris Johnston > Richmond Australia. > >> From: "dubi gefen" >> Sent: Saturday, February 04, 2006 1:24 PM >> Subject: KR> Parts supplyers. >>> Hello Kr's >>> I would like to buy canopy for KR-2S: >>> How know which company can supply these parts. >>> Regards >>> Dubi Gefen > > > - > Brings words and photos together (easily) with > PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail. > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> hinges
I need some material for the rudder and elevator hinges, Wicks and AS seem to have the 1 inch by 1 inch but do not seem to have the larger channel section, ( I may not be looking in the right place to find it though), is there any alternative grade metal I can use, its that or either Dr Dean. It seems no one here locally has the stuff. Chris.
KR> any better resins to use?
What I have found out about using T-88, 1)Its not so much whether one epoxy "sticks"better than the other, so long as the glue join is stronger than the wood, which means the wood will fail before the epoxy join. 2)T-88 has been used, so they tell me to build quite sustantial numbers of aircraft, ( in the thousands ), although people here ( Australia ), seem to use the West epoxy, probably because more of it greater availability through boat building outlets and slightly lower cost. I don't think anyone actually sells T-88 here locally anymore. If they do, they want their fare share of money for it. 3) I mix by pouring into a plastic cup which has a ring marked around the lower extremities to give EQUAL VOLUME. I then also check by using a digital scale to weigh for the correct mix ratio by weight and find I am always within 1 gram. Apparently though, T-88 is fairly indifferent to mis matched mix ratios. 4)When mixed, pour onto a pallette, as the reaction between resin and hardner generates heat, don't leave in the plastic cup. Although I find the ambient temperature has far greater effect on the curing time than pallettes or cups. 5) Surface preparation, people on the krnet will advise of the correct type of saw and appropriate number of teeth per inch etc. I was a naughty boy and used a disc sander, I spoke to quite a few people who built there aeroplane this way and no one had any problems, but I would listen very carefully to the advise of the krnet as these people have years of experience building wood aeroplanes, and many people have built more than one.To get the appropriate saw blade required 12 weeks from a specialist saw shop while they boated one over from Germany, at, like everything, greatly over inflated price. ( its for an aeroplane, why else! ) 6) Research procedure, use the krnet archives, there is so much information here, then search peoples web sites, Mark Langfords, Dave Mullins for example, then, simply ask. 7) Epoxy glue is like axle grease, you may have a perfect dry fit of parts, put some glue on and it slips and slides all over the place, some people use staples, others nails, I found dress making pins, you know, the ones with the plastic bubble on top, are good to keep things in place. Clamps are great but here they are $30 each, in the US they are much cheaper. I made my own from some threaded gal rod and wood for about $2 each, the threaded gal also flexes and bends to allow the wooden clamp to mate with the sloped sides of the kr boat, so you don't have to use tapered wooden chocks or blocks. 8)If its a hot day, the stuff is runny, if there is any gap in your join, it will run in the top and out the bottom.Try to orientate your joint for gravity to have the least effect, which is nearly impossible to do sometimes, but, something to think about. You can get a beautiful glue fillet by running you finger along the squeezed out glue along a glue line when the glue has started to cure, just after the runny stage and just before the tacky stage is the best time to do this I find. Strangely enough, it doesn't seem to want to stick to your finger. 9)I was told to wipe the excess epoxy off the joint but found as the glue cured, I always ended up with a slight hollow along the glue line, so I leave the excess and sand it off later, its very easy to sand. 10) I always keep a test sample of the glue, just pour some mixed glue into a plastic cup and let cure to see how well it sets, and I keep a test wood/glue sample as well, take three pieces of spruce about 2 inches long, lay them side by side, orient in a north south direction for example, slide the middle piece northwards for half its length, glue the remaining overlapping areas, lightly clamp, and let set for about a week, then place in a vice, with the north most piece on one vice jaw, and the opposite two ends on the other vice jaw, and compress in the vice. If you have a good join, then the wood will fail everytime. A lot of my test pieces suffer a compressive failure across the grain of the wood while the glue line stays intack. I have tried test pieces with T-88 where the faces have been disc sanded, sanded with wet and dry, sandpaper, no preparation at all, contaminated with sweat, oil, coated each surface with wood dust, even bruised the mating faces with a ball pane hammer. I have even glued samples together with the glue so tacky you could hardly spread the glue, and the wood still fails everytime. This does not mean you dont prepare the surface properly though. 11)Waxed paper is great for acting as a barrier to glue, I found out the hard way that one layer of paper is not good enough, at least two are needed, but that could be due to the poor quality of the local waxed papers. 12)If anything I have said is wrong or disputable, then I am sure many people will advise of the correct procedure or events. I have done pretty much all the boat
KR> cockpit floor
Not quite up to this stage but getting close, but I can forsee a problem in that if the side frames are canted outward, then the floor has only the top edge of the lower longeron to mount to, so what do you do, simply glue to the top edge of the lower longeron ???
KR> ply spar gusset
The ply spar reinforcent gussets on the inside of the fuselage, it looks from the plans as if the cross member goes in, the ply gusset is fitted and then any spruce gussets for the cross member are added last, but some photos on the krnet seem to show the cross member, then the spruce gusset for the cross member and then the ply fitted last and cut to fit around the spruce gussets, its too hard to tell from the photos which is which, can anyone clarify please?
KR> foam and resin
A question for Australians, can anyone tell me where I can get some foam from, I have tried about 6 companies locally in Sydney but they all charge something like $1000 for a block of foam about 4 ft by 2 ft by 1 ft, and if any one can advise on a good resin for glassing and where I can get it then that would help too, there are so many differret brands available I would much prefer to use something that is known to work, rather than something that the fibreglass salesman thinks will work.
KR> cad file turtledeck
Would anyone have a cad file of the front end of the aft turtledeck profile to suit a dragonfly or rand robinson kr2s canopy, any form of drawing file in autocad/turbocad/microstation etc, or even just some measurements would do, I have the height and width from the plans, just a radius that works for the corners would probably do.
KR> cad file turtledeck
Thanks for this, I have already tried the lumber people with not much luck, I am sure there is foam about which is cheap as chips, but as is always the case, will probably take some time to find it. - Original Message - From: "Stephen Teate" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:38 AM Subject: RE: KR> cad file turtledeck > Hello Chris, > I apologize if I have missed the point of your post, but if you are just > trying to fabricate your aft turtle deck it was best for me to do it > with the canopy already in place. The canopy is a very flexible item and > will take almost any radius asked of it. It will easily fit many > different fuselage widths and of course this will affect the actual > shape of the canopy. I built the canopy and frame first and then used it > to build my forward and aft turtle decks. I am very happy with the > results. > > As for the foam and resin question, I got some of my foam from my local > building supply store/lumbar yard. They had 4' x 8' sheets in both 1" > and 2" thickness. It was a Dow product and light blue in color. I am > using the West System epoxies that are available from Wicks or Aircraft > Spruce. They are not "local" but if I order from Wicks I usually get it > in two days. > Hope this helps, > Stephen > > -----Original Message- > From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net] On > Behalf Of Chris Johnston > Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:50 AM > To: KRnet > Subject: KR> cad file turtledeck > > Would anyone have a cad file of the front end of the aft turtledeck > profile to suit a dragonfly or rand robinson kr2s canopy, any form of > drawing file in autocad/turbocad/microstation etc, or even just some > measurements would do, I have the height and width from the plans, just > a radius that works for the corners would probably do. > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> cockpit floor
So obviously this does not reduce the cross sectional area of the longeron too much??? I have tried weighing substantial amounts of cured waste T-88 to see just how much extra it adds and found it took quite a lot to make even a small change on my digital scale, there would also be a fair bit absorbed into the wood I guess. Like the idea of the tapered spruce blocks. Chris. - Original Message - From: "Larry&Sallie Flesner" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 11:54 PM Subject: Re: KR> cockpit floor > At 06:20 AM 1/24/2006, you wrote: >>Not quite up to this stage but getting close, but I can forsee a >>problem in that if the side frames are canted outward, then the >>floor has only the top edge of the lower longeron to mount to, so >>what do you do, simply glue to the top edge of the lower longeron ??? > +++ > > > Use whatever tool is convenient and trim the top side of the lower > longeron > to match the angle of the floor so you have contact across the entire > longeron or nearly so. Use some flox for filler when you epoxy the floor > to the longeron. I added a tapered spruce block to the top side also > between the uprights as a gusset of sorts for extra glue area. Probably > overkill and ounces add up to pounds in the end. > > Larry Flesner > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> cad file turtledeck
I understand the blackbird was also designed using a slide rule Thats doing things the hard way! Connecta dot sounds a pretty practical solution. Chris. - Original Message - From: "Jerry Mahurin" To: "KRnet" Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:15 PM Subject: Re: KR> cad file turtledeck > You cannot use the firewall to shape your turtle deck > > The only real way to get the curvature is to sit in each seat and have > someone to draw an outline on a board set up behind you and then play > connect the dots. Then this can be blended forward to the dash > and > foredeck and on to the firewall. > > That is the way the Blackbird was done. > > Keep on keeping on, > > On 1/24/06, da...@alltel.net wrote: >> >> I used the template for the firewall to come up with the shape of both >> the >> aft bulkhead for the turtle deck and the forward arch for the >> windshield. After cutting it out, I just widened the legs to meet the >> longerons. >> >> Dan >> >> From: "Chris Johnston" >> Date: 2006/01/24 Tue AM 06:50:00 CST >> To: "KRnet" >> Subject: KR> cad file turtledeck >> >> Would anyone have a cad file of the front end of the aft turtledeck >> profile to suit a dragonfly or rand robinson kr2s canopy, any form of >> drawing file in autocad/turbocad/microstation etc, or even just some >> measurements would do, I have the height and width from the plans, just a >> radius that works for the corners would probably do. >> ___ >> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> >> >> ___ >> Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > > > > -- > Jerry Mahurin - aka - KRJerry > EAA# 0034283 > Lugoff, SC 29078 > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Spars
To fit the spar webs I figure I need about 8 ft by 35 inches surface area of ply to cover all the spars, I would assume the grain in a 8 ft length runs lengthwise in the sheet, the plans MAKE A POINT of noting the grain to run vertically, so my question is what do most people do, cut 4 ft lengths and scarf together? Next question is there is nothing more annoying than fuel sloshing around in the tank giving all sorts of strange readings on the fuel sender, so I thought some sort of stand pipe arrangement with a small feed hole in the bottom, so that this basically acts as a mechanical averager of teh fuel contents, the pipe keeping an average level while the rest sloshs around inside, anyone know of any type of sending unit which will fit into such a small hole? That or either fiddle around with electronic averager units on a conventional sender, but I really don't want to be bothered with op amps and time constants, and integrating, getting tired of all that crap, something cheap and simple and easy to get hold of, any ideas? Tending to think that a welded 2-3 mil alumimium tank might be the most crash resistant/puncture proof thing available, around about 70 litres/ 15 gallon capacity, any comments?
KR> Spars
Cultural difference, actually mean 2-3 millimetres, like the girls in California saying we will pick you up out the front of your hotel at 7 and go to the "beach", beach means to Australians sand and surf, swimmers and towels, the girls arrive all dolled up in tight jeans, high heels, lipstick, what they actually meant was hitting the night clubs at Longbeach! Told them they must have thought I was a right wally, they wanted to know then what a wally was! So I thought what they don't know sure aint gonna hurt, and to this day as far as I no they have no idea what a wally is. I think lockheed and the Queen Mary are both around there somewhere as well. - Original Message - From: "Ron Freiberger" To: "'KRnet'" Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 2:40 AM Subject: RE: KR> Spars > Chris said; >Tending to think that a welded 2-3 mil alumimium tank might be the > most crash resistant/puncture proof thing available, around about 70 > litres/ 15 gallon capacity, any comments? > > Yes; Aluminum foil is 2-3 mils. I don't think that would pass > inspection. > > Ron Freiberger > mail to ronandmar...@earthlink.net > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Spars/apology
No need to apologize, I should use something like mm but thought people in the imperial world would get confused with m&m's and have no idea what I was talking about. I don't like riveted sheet metal tanks, you only have to look at most Cessna's which crash and burn, the burning bit comes from one thing only. There are three elements to a fire hazarrd, oxygen, fuel, and an ignition source, take away anyone of these three, and the problem is hopefully, although not gauranteed, to be eliminated. The heat source cannot be eliminated, and neither can oxygen, so the best bet is to work on the fuel source, and there are only two possibilities, dump it overboard to get rid of it or contain it. If you take 60 or 70 lbs of fuel in a sheet metal tank and throw it at a brick wall so it comes to about a 4g stop, are you gauranteed the item will be leakproof, if the tank were made of aluminium plate instead of sheet metal, I would think there would be far less chance of leakage, but anyway, its all horses for courses. - Original Message - From: "Steve Bray" To: Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 1:26 PM Subject: RE: KR> Spars/apology > I'm sure he did and I feel bad about ribbing him, sorry again Chris. > Just what does mil mean like on the thickness of a trash bag? > How many thousands in a mil? > Steve Bray > Jackson, Tennessee > > > > >>From: "Brian Kraut" >>Reply-To: KRnet >>To: "KRnet" >>Subject: RE: KR> Spars >>Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:05:13 -0500 >> >>Think he meant milimeters. >> >>Brian Kraut >>Engineering Alternatives, Inc. >>www.engalt.com >> >>-Original Message- >>From: krnet-boun...@mylist.net [mailto:krnet-boun...@mylist.net]On >>Behalf Of Steve Bray >>Sent: Friday, January 13, 2006 1:54 PM >>To: kr...@mylist.net >>Subject: RE: KR> Spars >> >> >>I would like to watch you weld that. >>Sorry Chris, couldn't pass that up. You've got to be real careful, these >>guys are airplane builders and they don't miss much and let even less >>slide. >> >>Steve Bray >>Jackson, Tennessee >> >> >> >> >> >From: "Ron Freiberger" >> >Reply-To: KRnet >> >To: "'KRnet'" >> >Subject: RE: KR> Spars >> >Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 10:40:24 -0500 >> > >> >Chris said; >> > Tending to think that a welded 2-3 mil alumimium tank might be the >> >most crash resistant/puncture proof thing available, around about 70 >> >litres/ 15 gallon capacity, any comments? >> > >> > Yes; Aluminum foil is 2-3 mils. I don't think that would pass >> >inspection. >> > >> >Ron Freiberger >> >mail to ronandmar...@earthlink.net >> > >> > >> >___ >> >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >> >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> > >> > >> > >> >___ >> >Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >> >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >> >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> >> >>___ >>Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >>please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >> >> >> >>___ >>Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp >>to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >>please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > ___ > Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> Fuel tanks
I am after some advice on fuel tanks, would a alumimium tank give better crash protection than a fabricated foam and glass tank, but I guess a glass tank integral with the turtle deck would add a lot of stiffness to the front end? and a glass/turtle deck I suppose would just be epoxied into the top fuselage frames. How do most people fit alumimium tanks, bolt them in or glass/flox to the upper longeron, extra cross members and straps? Anyone had any experience in using the Summit drag racing tanks? Are these foam filled tanks much use in an accident? Does the foam have much affect on the flow rate if the tank is ruptured? There also plastic I believe, so probably not much use in a fire. I am also a bit curious as to why gussets are not added inside the fuse cross members and the side frame vertical members, so that teh fuselage cross section becomes 8 sided , I would have thought they would have added a lot of torsional rigidity to the fuselage, no one much seems to fit them. Any reason why they cannot be fitted? And spar varnish, why is it called spar varnish, ( nothing to do with spars on sailing ships?), and what is its main claim to fame, and finally, can anyone tell me what process is going on chemically speaking after spruce is exposed to sunlight/air and discolouring. Chris Johnston.
Re: Réf. : RE: KR> ANC-18
Serge, can you email me your pdf copy of ANC-18, for me, its simply the quickest and easiest way to get the information, chr...@ozdocs.net.au. - Original Message - From: "Serge VIDAL" To: "KRnet" Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 8:39 PM Subject: Réf. : RE: KR> ANC-18 I do have ANC-18 as a PDF file. Size is 11.4 Mo Serge Vidal KR2 "Kilimanjaro Cloud" Paris, France "Steve Jacobs" Envoyé par : krnet-boun...@mylist.net 2005-11-09 05:05 Veuillez répondre à KRnet Remis le : 2005-11-08 07:07 Pour : "'KRnet'" cc :(ccc : Serge VIDAL/DNSA/SAGEM) Objet : RE: KR> ANC-18 Can anyone tell me where on the FAA web site I can get ANC-18, or alternative sites, and can anyone reccommend any good books on wooden aircraft construction. + Don Reid may still have some - get ANC 18; 19 and 5 while you are at it - best buy I made in a while. [donreid"at"peoplepc.com] Steve Zambia ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ___ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html
KR> ANC-18
Can anyone tell me where on the FAA web site I can get ANC-18, or alternative sites, and can anyone reccommend any good books on wooden aircraft construction. Chris Johnston.
KR> GL rating for ply
Can anyone tell me the requirement as far as GL rating is concerned for birch ply for kr fuselage sides, I have the option of GL1 or GL3, GL1 is apparently certified and inspected by microscope, and very very expensive, while GL3, has "minor" defects, but is affordable, my question is, is GL3 good enough for the fuselage sides? PS: Had my fuselage frames inspected by the local tech counsellor, and he thought my glue joints were very good, so thanks everyone for your input on glue joints.
KR> glue joints
I need some advice on T-88 glue joints. I have a disc sander made from a wood lathe, which I use to get a perfect fit between parts, then coat both mating surfaces with T-88, and apply light pressure, I kept a sample of the epoxy, and a sample glue joint, which broke along the grain of the wood when tested. Can someone tell me if my bonding process is correct The sample epoxy set like epoxy should, although I have not been able to get a consistant opinion on what to do with it, some say break it and others say it is next to useless for testing purposes, and if you do break it, what do you look for?? I am pretty sure what I have done is correct, but It would pay to make sure that the process is 100 per cent done the right way. This may sound a bit silly, but what sort of processess do people use to mix there t-88 in correct proportions??
KR> kr structiure
Can anyone tell me just what role the glass skin on the fuselage does, the way I see it, the two side frames are nothing other than fairly simple trusses, which would be carrying all the bending loads from wings, tailplanes, cockpit loads etc. The turtle deck does nothing significant from a structural point of view, except maybe add some rigidity to the boat section, so would I be correct in saying the role of the glass is to protect the primary structure from environmental damage. If so, how much weight is it adding and if the boat section were properly weather proofed, can you do away with the glass altogether. (The theory being people were building wooden aeroplanes long before fibreglass was invented) And, does anyone have any experience in using longer undercarriage legs than shown on the plans, I would like a little extra ground clearance, but am a little concerned about the extra leverage on the spars, especially when operating of grass strips.
KR> test message ignore
test message.
KR> KR2S In Australia
If you go to the CASA web site, you will find a list of all KR2'S on the Australian register, most interesting is the reference to a retractable tailwheel on a number of KR2's listed. Chris Johnston. -Original Message- From: Andrew Ross To: chris johnston List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Sunday, June 27, 2004 11:05 AM Subject: KR> KR2S In Australia >Hi, >Im looking for builders past and present in Vic Australia. Need some info on where to get spruce etc locally. >Cheers AR >___ >to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net >please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html >
KR> KR2-S Plans for sale
Well, I have been looking and evaluating throughly all possible contenders and a kr looks the best bet, so how much do you want, how old are the plans, and how much to post to Australia. Chris Johnston. -Original Message- From: KYLE YATES To: kr...@mylist.net List-Post: krnet@list.krnet.org Date: Saturday, May 15, 2004 6:39 AM Subject: KR> KR2-S Plans for sale > > Extra set of plans to build a KR2-S. E-mail me for details. > _ > > [1]Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from > McAfee® Security. > >References > > 1. http://g.msn.com/8HMBENUS/2755??PS=47575 >
