Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
On Sat, 2008-03-08 at 00:42 +0100, KP Kirchdoerfer wrote: > On Friday 07 March 2008 18:55:23 Mike Noyes wrote: > > Everyone, > > We seem to have agreement on a name switch from Firewall to Framework. I > > think we can make this change now, and continue work on a description > > for later adoption. Is this acceptable? > > > > Mike Noyes +1 > > ok > kp Everyone, Done. Note: the project website logo still has "Firewall". -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: leaf, sitedocs - Check out the new SourceForge.net Marketplace. It's the best place to buy or sell services for just about anything Open Source. http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;164216239;13503038;w?http://sf.net/marketplace ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 | Everyone, | We seem to have agreement on a name switch from Firewall to Framework. I | think we can make this change now, and continue work on a description | for later adoption. Is this acceptable? | | Mike Noyes +1 Charles Steinkuehler +1 - -- Charles Steinkuehler [EMAIL PROTECTED] -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFH1VKmLywbqEHdNFwRAsBaAJ9VKykfr3K5JAwOQdC72ow7hlzcKwCgqARL SuVdVQF1EANNnbon0oIAeWQ= =vqMP -END PGP SIGNATURE- - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of Mike Noyes > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 5:55 PM > To: leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [leaf-devel] Project description > > On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 18:58 +0100, Martin Hejl wrote: > > > I agree with you, that the main usage scenario is to > build a network > > > appliance with LEAF and most of them also acting as firewall. > > > > > > Anyway I think it has grown from a "firewall" to a "framework". > > That's something I have no issues with - even though, that > seems to a > > change be the project name, rather than the description (the way I > > understand it, the current project name is > > > > "LEAF - Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall" > > "LEAF - Linux Embedded Appliance Framework" > > Everyone, > We seem to have agreement on a name switch from Firewall to > Framework. I think we can make this change now, and continue > work on a description for later adoption. Is this acceptable? > > Mike Noyes +1 Fine by me also Luis Correia - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
On Friday 07 March 2008 18:55:23 Mike Noyes wrote: > On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 18:58 +0100, Martin Hejl wrote: > > > I agree with you, that the main usage scenario is to build a network > > > appliance with LEAF and most of them also acting as firewall. > > > > > > Anyway I think it has grown from a "firewall" to a "framework". > > > > That's something I have no issues with - even though, that seems to a > > change be the project name, rather than the description (the way I > > understand it, the current project name is > > > > "LEAF - Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall" > > "LEAF - Linux Embedded Appliance Framework" > > Everyone, > We seem to have agreement on a name switch from Firewall to Framework. I > think we can make this change now, and continue work on a description > for later adoption. Is this acceptable? > > Mike Noyes +1 ok kp - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
Hi Mike, > "LEAF - Linux Embedded Appliance Framework" > > Everyone, > We seem to have agreement on a name switch from Firewall to Framework. I > think we can make this change now, and continue work on a description > for later adoption. Is this acceptable? fine with me Martin - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
On Thu, 2008-03-06 at 18:58 +0100, Martin Hejl wrote: > > I agree with you, that the main usage scenario is to build a network > > appliance > > with LEAF and most of them also acting as firewall. > > > > Anyway I think it has grown from a "firewall" to a "framework". > That's something I have no issues with - even though, that seems to a > change be the project name, rather than the description (the way I > understand it, the current project name is > > "LEAF - Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall" "LEAF - Linux Embedded Appliance Framework" Everyone, We seem to have agreement on a name switch from Firewall to Framework. I think we can make this change now, and continue work on a description for later adoption. Is this acceptable? Mike Noyes +1 -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: leaf, sitedocs - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
Hi kp, > I agree with you, that the main usage scenario is to build a network > appliance > with LEAF and most of them also acting as firewall. > > Anyway I think it has grown from a "firewall" to a "framework". That's something I have no issues with - even though, that seems to a change be the project name, rather than the description (the way I understand it, the current project name is "LEAF - Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall" and the description is "A secure, feature-rich, customizable embedded Linux network appliance for use in a variety of network topologies. Although it can be used in other ways; it's primarily used as a Internet gateway, router, firewall, and wireless access point." Maybe I'm misunderstanding what is being discussed in the first place... Wouldn't be the first time that's happened :-) Martin - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
On Wednesday 05 March 2008 23:05:03 Martin Hejl wrote: > Hi all, > > KP Kirchdoerfer wrote: > > I always preferred the second one and that's, what I started with to > > enhance/change it: > > > > "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. > > Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, > > Internet border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network > > storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry > > boxes." > > > > (characters unkown) > > whatever the latest proposal might be, I'll just quote that one, since > it doesn't matter for the point I want to make. Ultimately, I don't care > what the project description is (well, within reason) - in the end, no > matter how finely crafted our project description is (possibly the > result of months of discussion), it will probably not make a huge > difference (IMHO). Having a good product, with a strong community > (developers, people writing docs, people helping others on the lists) > would make a difference (again IMHO). > > But anyway, my concern with the proposed description is this: what's so > special about a NAS or a PBX that it needs to be mentioned in the > project description? VOIP was a hot topic a short while ago, maybe > that's why it's "needed" from a marketing point of view, but to me it's > just one of the many things that a LEAF box can be used for (and IMHO, > one it's not terribly suited for, since a full blown PBX needs storage, > for voice mail and the like, which is an add-on, but not a core feature > for LEAF. Same goes for SAN/NAS, I guess - it's possible, but a "real" > SAN/NAS box should have all kinds of RAID drivers available, up to date > networking protocols, plenty of RAM (why waste precious RAM that could > be used for caching on a ramdisk?)). Anyway, just because it can be > done, I don't think it should be part of the project description. We > have a build environment available, so anything that's theoretically > possible can be done, if somebody is willing to invest the energy to do > it. I've used my leaf box for "war-driving" (well, the friendly kind, > not trying to break into other networks, just to find out who's > interfering with my WLAN). It works nicely for that; it also works > nicely with a WISPY Spectrum Analyzer. Should we add that to our project > description as well? (A soekris or WRAP box will work nicely running on > battery, and it will obviously run on many laptops - so maybe we should > even add "mobile appliance" to the description as well?). Or maybe even > something to do with "Green IT" (seems to be the hot topic at the CeBit > right now), since it will run just fine on computers that don't require > a 300+W power supply? > > In short - I feel that the core strengths of LEAF (Bering uClibc and its > yet unnamed successor in particular) are network related stuff > (firewall, router, AP). It can do many other things as well, but I think > those things are already covered with the "Although it can be used in > other ways; it's primarily used as..." part of our current description. > If a change is required, maybe it could be as simple as changing that > part to "Although it can be used in many other ways; it's primarily used > as..." > > Just my 2 cents - as I said, I don't really care one way or the other, I > just wanted to address what seems to be "feature creep" in the project > description to me, when I read the current proposals. And I guess I had > to voice my opinion, given the fact that kp used the "speak up, or I'll > assume you agree" approach. Hi Martin; I'm also no fan of buzzwords; in the above description they has been included, because I thought it may justify the proposed change in the LEAF acronym from Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall to a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. I agree with you, that the main usage scenario is to build a network appliance with LEAF and most of them also acting as firewall. Anyway I think it has grown from a "firewall" to a "framework". - some of the available packages indicate, that users use it as a small printerbox (p9100.lrp), as a PBX (yate.lrp) or as small fileserver (samba.lrp). - with the new config system in Bering-uClibc 3.x it's pretty easy to use the core, add some special lrp's and build your own appliance by just changing leaf.cfg and configdb without losing ability to easily make use of updated packages on the LEAF pages. So the description itself is somewhat secondary to me. kp - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
On Wednesday 05 March 2008 03:18 pm, Mats Erik Andersson wrote: [...] > *) A recursive description may be intellectually pleasing, but > is never estetically pleasing, and anyway the borderline > to ridicule is not constant among people encountering the > particular notion. The need to explain GNU again and again > among various authors and writers is a particular bad example! [...] We should comply within satisfaction of any GPL'ed code. But no LEAF variant complies with GNU. I would not suggest any attempt down the GNU road. -- ~Lynn Avants Linux Embedded Firewall Project developer http://leaf.sourceforge.net - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
Hi all, KP Kirchdoerfer wrote: > I always preferred the second one and that's, what I started with to > enhance/change it: > > "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. > Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet > border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage > (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes." > > (characters unkown) whatever the latest proposal might be, I'll just quote that one, since it doesn't matter for the point I want to make. Ultimately, I don't care what the project description is (well, within reason) - in the end, no matter how finely crafted our project description is (possibly the result of months of discussion), it will probably not make a huge difference (IMHO). Having a good product, with a strong community (developers, people writing docs, people helping others on the lists) would make a difference (again IMHO). But anyway, my concern with the proposed description is this: what's so special about a NAS or a PBX that it needs to be mentioned in the project description? VOIP was a hot topic a short while ago, maybe that's why it's "needed" from a marketing point of view, but to me it's just one of the many things that a LEAF box can be used for (and IMHO, one it's not terribly suited for, since a full blown PBX needs storage, for voice mail and the like, which is an add-on, but not a core feature for LEAF. Same goes for SAN/NAS, I guess - it's possible, but a "real" SAN/NAS box should have all kinds of RAID drivers available, up to date networking protocols, plenty of RAM (why waste precious RAM that could be used for caching on a ramdisk?)). Anyway, just because it can be done, I don't think it should be part of the project description. We have a build environment available, so anything that's theoretically possible can be done, if somebody is willing to invest the energy to do it. I've used my leaf box for "war-driving" (well, the friendly kind, not trying to break into other networks, just to find out who's interfering with my WLAN). It works nicely for that; it also works nicely with a WISPY Spectrum Analyzer. Should we add that to our project description as well? (A soekris or WRAP box will work nicely running on battery, and it will obviously run on many laptops - so maybe we should even add "mobile appliance" to the description as well?). Or maybe even something to do with "Green IT" (seems to be the hot topic at the CeBit right now), since it will run just fine on computers that don't require a 300+W power supply? In short - I feel that the core strengths of LEAF (Bering uClibc and its yet unnamed successor in particular) are network related stuff (firewall, router, AP). It can do many other things as well, but I think those things are already covered with the "Although it can be used in other ways; it's primarily used as..." part of our current description. If a change is required, maybe it could be as simple as changing that part to "Although it can be used in many other ways; it's primarily used as..." Just my 2 cents - as I said, I don't really care one way or the other, I just wanted to address what seems to be "feature creep" in the project description to me, when I read the current proposals. And I guess I had to voice my opinion, given the fact that kp used the "speak up, or I'll assume you agree" approach. Martin - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
Hello folks, two short observations: *) By eliminating the abreviations " (WAP)", " (NAS/SAN)" sixteen characters can be put to better use, since these are so well known. I see more merit in keeping PBX since it is not built from initials only. *) A recursive description may be intellectually pleasing, but is never estetically pleasing, and anyway the borderline to ridicule is not constant among people encountering the particular notion. The need to explain GNU again and again among various authors and writers is a particular bad example! Disagreement is acknowledged! Regards Mats E A tis 2008-03-04 klockan 11:55 -0800 skrev Victor McAllister: > Mike Noyes wrote: > . > >>> > >>> "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. > >>> Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, > >>> Internet > >>> border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage > >>> (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes." > >>> > > > > > > https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/editgroupinfo.php?group_id=13751 > > The description for your project is limited to 254 characters. > > > > > > > >> Everyone, > >> I'd like to see some recursion in the description or name like GNU, but > >> that may not be possible. > >> > >> Project Name: Linux Embedded Appliance Framework > >> > > > > Everyone, > > The description below isn't short enough. I'm open to suggestions. > > > > > >> Description: > >> LEAF is a embedded appliance framework delivered in branches. > >> Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following > >> appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border > >> router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached > >> storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry > >> box. > >> > This is 249 characters long > > LEAF (Linux Embedded Appliance Framework) is targeted at > appliance-oriented tasks such as: LAN/WAN router/ border router/ > firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached storage > (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry box. > - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
Victor McAllister wrote: > LEAF (Linux Embedded Appliance Framework) is targeted at > appliance-oriented tasks such as: LAN/WAN router/ border router/ > firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached storage > (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry box. LEAF (LEAF EmbedLinux Appliance Framework) makes it recursive. Mohan - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
Mike Noyes wrote: > On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 14:53 -0800, Mike Noyes wrote: > >> On Sat, 2008-03-01 at 21:21 +0100, KP Kirchdoerfer wrote: >> >>> I always preferred the second one and that's, what I started with to >>> enhance/change it: >>> >>> "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. >>> Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, >>> Internet >>> border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage >>> (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes." >>> >> KP, >> Did you verify the 255 character limit is still in effect for project >> descriptions? >> > > KP, > Verified. :-( > > https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/editgroupinfo.php?group_id=13751 > The description for your project is limited to 254 characters. > > > >> Everyone, >> I'd like to see some recursion in the description or name like GNU, but >> that may not be possible. >> >> Project Name: Linux Embedded Appliance Framework >> > > Everyone, > The description below isn't short enough. I'm open to suggestions. > > >> Description: >> LEAF is a embedded appliance framework delivered in branches. >> Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following >> appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border >> router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached >> storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry >> box. >> This is 249 characters long LEAF (Linux Embedded Appliance Framework) is targeted at appliance-oriented tasks such as: LAN/WAN router/ border router/ firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry box. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
On Mon, 2008-03-03 at 14:53 -0800, Mike Noyes wrote: > On Sat, 2008-03-01 at 21:21 +0100, KP Kirchdoerfer wrote: > > I always preferred the second one and that's, what I started with to > > enhance/change it: > > > > "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. > > Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, > > Internet > > border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage > > (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes." > > KP, > Did you verify the 255 character limit is still in effect for project > descriptions? KP, Verified. :-( https://sourceforge.net/project/admin/editgroupinfo.php?group_id=13751 The description for your project is limited to 254 characters. > Everyone, > I'd like to see some recursion in the description or name like GNU, but > that may not be possible. > > Project Name: Linux Embedded Appliance Framework Everyone, The description below isn't short enough. I'm open to suggestions. > Description: > LEAF is a embedded appliance framework delivered in branches. > Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following > appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border > router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached > storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry > box. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: leaf, sitedocs - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
On Sat, 2008-03-01 at 21:21 +0100, KP Kirchdoerfer wrote: > I always preferred the second one and that's, what I started with to > enhance/change it: > > "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. > Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet > border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage > (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes." KP, Did you verify the 255 character limit is still in effect for project descriptions? Everyone, I'd like to see some recursion in the description or name like GNU, but that may not be possible. Project Name: Linux Embedded Appliance Framework Description: LEAF is a embedded appliance framework delivered in branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network attached storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX), and telemetry box. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: leaf, sitedocs - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
I am, have been, using Bering-1.2 to allow me to use the internet with some safety for (obviously) several years. It doesn't seem to be broke, and I've got other things to do besides update it. One of these days, perhaps... I also agree Bering is more useful than just as a firewall, and "framework" is an apt substitute. I'm not sure I agree with inclusion of the word "network" in the description, it should be more general than just a networking appliance. Bering uClibc can be "just the thing" for very small Linux systems. One of the thing I'm spending time on is building LFS systems. I needed a bootable small system on which to base its reinstallation on new systems. I did some work with Trinux, but in the end used a somewhat stripped-down Bering uClibc. I thought lrp packaging and package management was unnecessary for my needs, so retreated to plain old tarballs, for example. If this redirection proceeds, I'd suggest: 1) that LEAF installation have some useful intermediate points before the "full-up" system, e.g. without lrp packaging, etc., and 2) it would need an easy to setup and use generalized development environment so additional packages for some particular use can be easily recompiled for uClibc. -- Paul Rogers [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xprt.net/~pgrogers/ Rogers' Second Law: "Everything you do communicates." (I do not personally endorse any additions after this line. TANSTAAFL :-) -- http://www.fastmail.fm - Access your email from home and the web - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project description
Hi kp, I agree that "Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall" is now misleading and "Linux Embedded Appliance Framework" is a much better definition. I'm struggling to improve upon your suggestion, but I've slightly corrected the English: "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. Branches support various appliance-oriented tasks such as: LAN/WAN router, Internet border router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), network storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and telemetry boxes." (261 characters) davidMbrooke On Sat, 2008-03-01 at 21:21 +0100, KP Kirchdoerfer wrote: > Hi all; > > the topic has been raised years ago, but it is IMHO still not solved. > The current project description and translation for the LEAF acronym is > > Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall > > At least the Bering-uClibc branch provides nowadays packages to build a > firewall, a router or even a NAS or PBX based on the LEAF project software. > So it has grown from a "Firewall" into a "Framework" for embedded appliances. > > There also ideas to extend the capabilties on LEAF based boxes to something > very different than just a firewall, even to buikd something _without_ any > firewall capabilties. > > Mike Noyes made a at least two proposals for a possible change in the > description in 2004 - without a final decision. > > I do believe it's time to change the description. > > Mike's proposals has been: > > " > A Linux Embedded Appliance Framework delivered in easy-to-use > branches. Specific branches target a variety of environments. > Anything from enterprise networks and Internet service providers to > small office/home office environments are supported. > > (244 characters) > > - or - > > LEAF is a embedded network appliance framework delivered in > branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the > following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border > router, wireless access point (WAP), and telemetry box. > > (243 characters)" > > I always preferred the second one and that's, what I started with to > enhance/change it: > > "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. > Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet > border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage > (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes." > > (characters unkown) > > Feel free to correct my english, it's hard to be short in a foreign language. > > And add your ideas and corrections. > > Before this ends up in a dead-end, cause none responds, and we therefor has > no > decision as in 2004, when Mike made the proposals, I'll count silence as a > positive vote. > > Pls keep in mind, we're not playing jackstraws here :) > > kp > > - > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft > Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. > http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ > > ___ > leaf-devel mailing list > leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
[leaf-devel] Project description
Hi all; the topic has been raised years ago, but it is IMHO still not solved. The current project description and translation for the LEAF acronym is Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall At least the Bering-uClibc branch provides nowadays packages to build a firewall, a router or even a NAS or PBX based on the LEAF project software. So it has grown from a "Firewall" into a "Framework" for embedded appliances. There also ideas to extend the capabilties on LEAF based boxes to something very different than just a firewall, even to buikd something _without_ any firewall capabilties. Mike Noyes made a at least two proposals for a possible change in the description in 2004 - without a final decision. I do believe it's time to change the description. Mike's proposals has been: " A Linux Embedded Appliance Framework delivered in easy-to-use branches. Specific branches target a variety of environments. Anything from enterprise networks and Internet service providers to small office/home office environments are supported. (244 characters) - or - LEAF is a embedded network appliance framework delivered in branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border router, wireless access point (WAP), and telemetry box. (243 characters)" I always preferred the second one and that's, what I started with to enhance/change it: "LEAF is a Linux Embedded Appliance Framework. Branches provides various appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border router/firewalls, wireless access point (WAP), network storage (NAS/SAN), Private Branch eXchange (PBX) and even telemetry boxes." (characters unkown) Feel free to correct my english, it's hard to be short in a foreign language. And add your ideas and corrections. Before this ends up in a dead-end, cause none responds, and we therefor has no decision as in 2004, when Mike made the proposals, I'll count silence as a positive vote. Pls keep in mind, we're not playing jackstraws here :) kp - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Microsoft Defy all challenges. Microsoft(R) Visual Studio 2008. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/vse012070mrt/direct/01/ ___ leaf-devel mailing list leaf-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
Alex At 10:34 16.01.2004 +0100, Alex Rhomberg wrote: Mike wrote: > A Linux Embedded Appliance Framework delivered in easy-to-use > branches. Specific branches target a variety of environments. > Anything from enterprise networks and Internet service providers to > small office/home office environments are supported. I haven't seen a LEAF branch that targets the enterprise. Some requirements of the enterprise are: - central management for multiple firewalls: Probably best addressed with the FWBuilder support and the LEAF construction kit I am trying to get LEAF to be a target for the ISCS framework, which might even be closer to an enterprise solution. ... cheers Erich --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 12:51, Mike Noyes wrote: > On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 12:06, Alex Rhomberg wrote: > > LEAF is an embedded network appliance framework delivered in > > branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the > > following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN/Internet border > > router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), and VPN gateway. > > > > (a bit less than 253 characters) > > I like this. :-) > > Everyone, > Are there any opinions, comments, or suggestions for the proposed > project description above? Updated DocManager with new proposal. Please review and comment. Thanks. Description https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=1396&group_id=13751 -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 12:06, Alex Rhomberg wrote: > > > Linux Embedded Appliance Framework (LEAF) > > > > LEAF is an embedded network appliance framework delivered in > > branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the > > following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border > > router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), and telemetry box. > > > > (253 characters) > > Except for the Framework; I though that frameworks by > definition don't do anything but just provide a framework that can be filled > with your work. I wouldn't call LEAF a framework. Alex, Last time we were discussing a project description change framework was the best solution we came up with for replacing firewall. Neither describe LEAF well. I'm open to suggestions for F in our acronym. I think of a framework as a basic structure for creating things. Basic structure can be nebulously defined as our development model, build environment, and branch. Thing would be a network appliance-oriented task. > Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall (LEAF) > > LEAF is an embedded network appliance framework delivered in > branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the > following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN/Internet border > router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), and VPN gateway. > > (a bit less than 253 characters) I like this. :-) Everyone, Are there any opinions, comments, or suggestions for the proposed project description above? -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
> we are talking about goals - some of them has eached, some of > them not, but > maybe in the future. > LEAF works from home office to small office right now stable and > with more > features a usual user is asking for. > We could even close down development and put everything in > maintenance mode > (only security fixes, providing support, improving docs) and most of LEAF > users will be satisfied a long time. There is definitely some useful work that can be done in the management/configuration area und to improve the upgrading process (separate config and data) Even maintenance mode needs quite some work, just to compile new packages from new software releases. > I believe moving any branch to support larger environments than > small office > is a _goal_, though we may fail :), like it is a goal to improve > installation > and configuration for SOHO users. Moving to larger environments is one thing, but the enterprise is and IMHO will remain beyond the reach of LEAF, because a big firewall has enough space for a current distro. Eventually a fully open source Linux firewall will be ready for the enterprise, probably because a hardware vendor wants to attack the Nokia/Checkpoint Combo. But it will hardly be based on LEAF. Cheers Alex --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
> Linux Embedded Appliance Framework (LEAF) > > LEAF is an embedded network appliance framework delivered in > branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the > following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border > router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), and telemetry box. > > (253 characters) I like this one. Except for the Framework; I though that frameworks by definition don't do anything but just provide a framework that can be filled with your work. I wouldn't call LEAF a framework. I'd probably change the description to "LAN/WAN/Internet border router/firewall" and replace the telemetry box with "VPN gateway" Linux Embedded Appliance Firewall (LEAF) LEAF is an embedded network appliance framework delivered in branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN/Internet border router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), and VPN gateway. (a bit less than 253 characters) Cheers Alex --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
On Fri, 2004-01-16 at 10:43, Mike Noyes wrote: > Linux Embedded Appliance Framework (LEAF) > > LEAF is a embedded network appliance framework delivered in > branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the > following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border > router, wireless access point (WAP), and telemetry box. > > (243 characters) Linux Embedded Appliance Framework (LEAF) LEAF is an embedded network appliance framework delivered in branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border router/firewall, wireless access point (WAP), and telemetry box. (253 characters) Other appliance-oriented tasks: print server, mail forwarder, web server, X-10 controller, system rescue, thin client, and probably more that I forgot. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 19:07, Mike Noyes wrote: > A Linux Embedded Appliance Framework delivered in easy-to-use > branches. Specific branches target a variety of environments. > Anything from enterprise networks and Internet service providers to > small office/home office environments are supported. > > (244 characters) - or - Linux Embedded Appliance Framework (LEAF) LEAF is a embedded network appliance framework delivered in branches. Branches are targeted at, but not limited to, the following appliance-oriented tasks: LAN/WAN router, Internet border router, wireless access point (WAP), and telemetry box. (243 characters) -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
Am Freitag, 16. Januar 2004 10:34 schrieb Alex Rhomberg: > Mike wrote: > > A Linux Embedded Appliance Framework delivered in easy-to-use > > branches. Specific branches target a variety of environments. > > Anything from enterprise networks and Internet service providers to > > small office/home office environments are supported. > > I haven't seen a LEAF branch that targets the enterprise. Some requirements > of the enterprise are: > - central management for multiple firewalls: Probably best addressed with > the FWBuilder support and the LEAF construction kit > - Firewalls with many ports (16 is common): Again probably the easiest with > FWBuilder > - HA clusters/Failover solutions > - Central Log management > - Multiple users supported > > Depending on the environment, you'll also want > - VPN for roaming users with NAT Traversal and DHCP through the VPN (almost > there..) > - RADIUS support, SecurID support > - dynamic firewall rules with login > - trunking, VRRP, HSRP, whatever Alex; we are talking about goals - some of them has eached, some of them not, but maybe in the future. LEAF works from home office to small office right now stable and with more features a usual user is asking for. We could even close down development and put everything in maintenance mode (only security fixes, providing support, improving docs) and most of LEAF users will be satisfied a long time. But some features already provided are mostly beyond this target audience - like zebra/quagga, your FWBuilder support and probably ipv6 (at least for the near future). On the other side there are members working on new ideas to make installation/configuration easier for home users. I believe moving any branch to support larger environments than small office is a _goal_, though we may fail :), like it is a goal to improve installation and configuration for SOHO users. kp --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
Mike wrote: > A Linux Embedded Appliance Framework delivered in easy-to-use > branches. Specific branches target a variety of environments. > Anything from enterprise networks and Internet service providers to > small office/home office environments are supported. I haven't seen a LEAF branch that targets the enterprise. Some requirements of the enterprise are: - central management for multiple firewalls: Probably best addressed with the FWBuilder support and the LEAF construction kit - Firewalls with many ports (16 is common): Again probably the easiest with FWBuilder - HA clusters/Failover solutions - Central Log management - Multiple users supported Depending on the environment, you'll also want - VPN for roaming users with NAT Traversal and DHCP through the VPN (almost there..) - RADIUS support, SecurID support - dynamic firewall rules with login - trunking, VRRP, HSRP, whatever Considering the feedback on my contributions which are targeted at larger environments (but not large), I don't think many people are interested. People seem to prefer stonegate as a Linux solution. BTW, I have seen stonegate on a FW-500ME, the same appliance box that we use for LEAF. Cheers Alex --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 14:14, Peter Mueller wrote: > An easy-to-use Embedded Linux Network Applicance; LEAF, like Linux, aims to > be scalable to all environments. I don't see the added value in LAN/WAN > talk, although WLAN might add some relevance. Everyone, Does this sound any better? A Linux Embedded Appliance Framework delivered in easy-to-use branches. Specific branches target a variety of environments. Anything from enterprise networks and Internet service providers to small office/home office environments are supported. (244 characters) -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
RE: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
>An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small >office, home office, and home automation environments. >to: >An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in LAN, WAN, >and WLAN environments. What about: An easy-to-use Embedded Linux Network Applicance; LEAF, like Linux, aims to be scalable to all environments. I don't see the added value in LAN/WAN talk, although WLAN might add some relevance. Cheers, Peter M --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 13:19, Mike Noyes wrote: > On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 12:40, Ray Olszewski wrote: > > But my reaction comes without knowing the reason why a change is even being > > considered. Did I somehow miss a recent thread here in which this topic was > > "brought up again"? Or are you (Mike) getting off-list requests for revisions? > > Ray, > Yes. Some people want to move away from the SOHO definition to a broader > interpretation. This was discussed as a possibility in the past, but > wording was never agreed to. Ray, The other description change under consideration was a move away from firewall to something like framework. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
On Thu, 2004-01-15 at 12:40, Ray Olszewski wrote: > But my reaction comes without knowing the reason why a change is even being > considered. Did I somehow miss a recent thread here in which this topic was > "brought up again"? Or are you (Mike) getting off-list requests for revisions? Ray, Yes. Some people want to move away from the SOHO definition to a broader interpretation. This was discussed as a possibility in the past, but wording was never agreed to. My attempt above was very poor. Sorry. It didn't convey the intended change. I'm open to suggestions. > Personally, I like the existing wording just fine. I like the new proposed goals better than our current ones. We've completed most of our current ones. I believe it's our description that people wish to work on. It's very hard to write a good description in 255 characters. Current goals: Create an inclusive environment for current developers of the Linux Router Project to release their modifications to the public. Support continued development of Linux Router Project derived LEAF images and packages. Create a new LEAF version based on an embedded Linux distribution with 2.4 kernel support, while retaining the option to install the target environment on a floppy attached to the target. Proposed change: Create an inclusive environment where LEAF project members and the extended community are free to release content to the public. Support continued development of current LEAF releases/branches. Create new LEAF releases/branches with current Linux kernels and libraries, while retaining the option to install the target environment on various devices attached to the target. Maintain as small a footprint as possible for release/branch target installations. Promote creation of packages usable by all LEAF releases/branches. Note: I don't want to change our goals while a change to our description is being considered. I only want to approach the SF staff once. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
At 12:08 PM 1/15/2004 -0800, Mike Noyes wrote: Everyone, The subject of our current project description and goals was brought up again. I'd like feedback on the state of the new version I posted here: Description https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=1396&group_id=13751 I think this sentence should change from: An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small office, home office, and home automation environments. to: An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in LAN, WAN, and WLAN environments. Why make this change? I don't know what the revised sentence is intended to convey. Really, any device that contains a NIC is "for use in LAN, WAN, and WLAN environments" ... making this new description not very ... well, not very descriptive of anything. The second sentence (not quoted above) identifies the main everyday use of LEAF quite nicely, without restricting us to routing and firewalling uses. But my reaction comes without knowing the reason why a change is even being considered. Did I somehow miss a recent thread here in which this topic was "brought up again"? Or are you (Mike) getting off-list requests for revisions? Personally, I like the existing wording just fine. Keep in mind, any change to our project description and goals must be approved by the SF.net staff. --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
[leaf-devel] Project Description & Goals
Everyone, The subject of our current project description and goals was brought up again. I'd like feedback on the state of the new version I posted here: Description https://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=1396&group_id=13751 I think this sentence should change from: An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small office, home office, and home automation environments. to: An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in LAN, WAN, and WLAN environments. Keep in mind, any change to our project description and goals must be approved by the SF.net staff. -- Mike Noyes http://sourceforge.net/users/mhnoyes/ SF.net Projects: ffl, leaf, phpwebsite, phpwebsite-comm, sitedocs --- The SF.Net email is sponsored by EclipseCon 2004 Premiere Conference on Open Tools Development and Integration See the breadth of Eclipse activity. February 3-5 in Anaheim, CA. http://www.eclipsecon.org/osdn ___ leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
At 12:10 PM 1/26/01 -0800, Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I need to think about this some more. Thanks for the input. Everyone, I think we should incorporate the suggestions in this thread into a long description of the project. We have more latitude to elaborate about the project on our home page. I hope we can create a long description for the project on our home page that satisfies almost everyone. Reasons for this suggestion: 1. SourceForge states in "Step 3" when applying for a project: ~ Use of the project account for anything other than the purposes ~ and goals in this statement is prohibited. If you need to change ~ this statement at any time, please inform a staff member and we ~ will assist you in getting a new statement approved. 2. I believe that a super-majority of current project developers needs to agree that the current short description is inadequate, before a change can be made. 3. The short description is constrained to 255 characters. If my reasoning is flawed, please let me know. Thanks. -- Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:40:09AM -0800, Jack Coates scribbled: > maybe -- Of course, designs and efforts have been on PCs and dinky > doohickeys like PC104, so the bus issues will keep LEAF out of the network > core until it's ported to SPARC or DEC or something. Hmm...I have a DECstation 5000 dust collector... > -- > Jack Coates > Monkeynoodle: It's what's for dinner! > > On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Mike Noyes wrote: > > > At 07:55 AM 1/26/01 -0800, Jack Coates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >The way I see it (FWIW) is that LEAF is > > > > Current project description: > > ~ An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > > ~ office, home office, and home automation environments. Although it > > ~ can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a > > ~ gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites. > > > > >a flexible system which can be used on embedded hardware or regular PC's, > > >for enterprise tasks or simple home use. > > > > Jack, > > Are you suggesting a change in the first sentence? > > > > >I think that a year from now we'll have easy-like-pie disk images for home > > >users, more complex CD and ZIP images for advanced routing and analysis > > >(big brother, LIDS, and MRTG are getting me excited), and package bundles > > >that would allow the savvy user to do anything the hardware they choose to > > >use is capable of. > > > > > >And the easier it is to use, the bigger a butt-rash it will give to Cisco > > >and Juniper :-) > > > > Should we order a case of cortisone cream for them? ;) > > > > -- > > Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ > > > > > > ___ > > Leaf-devel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel > > > > > ___ > Leaf-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel -- rick -- A mind is like a parachute... it only works when it's open. ICQ# 1590117 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Help with LRP: http://lrp.c0wz.com Home page: http://www.c0wz.com ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
At 10:23 AM 1/26/01 -0800, "Scott C. Best" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Mike: > >Quick suggestion: sed 'home-automation' to 'home networking'. >I've not heard X10 asked for on the LRP list in a long while. Scott, I want automation in there, so we can affiliate with the home automation project. I don't know if "home networking" although more descriptive would help us accomplish this. Neil Cherry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wants to create Home Firewall Gateways. I think we can provide one for his project. http://LinuxHA.sourceforge.net/ note: I haven't contacted Neil Cherry yet. see this article in ELJ for more information http://embedded.linuxjournal.com/magazine/issue00/4312/ \ ?sid=014455f82333af5011e6d221803d7b42 >And, what's an "Internet leaf site"? Sounds like a web-forest >(Mirkwood?). :) Perhaps: 'Most commonly used as a gateway/router/ >firewall to enhance Internet security...'. A leaf site most commonly refers to a usenet leaf. In this case we are referring to a LAN attached to the Internet by a leaf router. It looks like the phrase "Internet leaf sites" is disliked. I need to think about this some more. Thanks for the input. -- Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
maybe -- Of course, designs and efforts have been on PCs and dinky doohickeys like PC104, so the bus issues will keep LEAF out of the network core until it's ported to SPARC or DEC or something. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: It's what's for dinner! On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Mike Noyes wrote: > At 07:55 AM 1/26/01 -0800, Jack Coates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >The way I see it (FWIW) is that LEAF is > > Current project description: > ~ An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > ~ office, home office, and home automation environments. Although it > ~ can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a > ~ gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites. > > >a flexible system which can be used on embedded hardware or regular PC's, > >for enterprise tasks or simple home use. > > Jack, > Are you suggesting a change in the first sentence? > > >I think that a year from now we'll have easy-like-pie disk images for home > >users, more complex CD and ZIP images for advanced routing and analysis > >(big brother, LIDS, and MRTG are getting me excited), and package bundles > >that would allow the savvy user to do anything the hardware they choose to > >use is capable of. > > > >And the easier it is to use, the bigger a butt-rash it will give to Cisco > >and Juniper :-) > > Should we order a case of cortisone cream for them? ;) > > -- > Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ > > > ___ > Leaf-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel > ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
An embedded Linux for use in networking. Commonly used for home and small office LANs, LEAF is quite versatile and well suited to many tasks. -- Jack Coates Monkeynoodle: It's what's for dinner! On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Mike Noyes wrote: > At 12:36 PM 1/26/01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:17:26AM -0800, Mike Noyes scribbled: > > > Current project description: > > > ~ An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > > > ~ office, home office, and home automation environments. Although > > > ~ it can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a > > > ~ gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites. > > Proposed project description change: > > An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > office, home office, and home automation environments. Most commonly > used as a gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites, LEAF is > very versatile and well suited to many other uses and tasks. > > 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 > note: the short project description is limited to 255 characters. This > change is 261 characters long. > > Comments? > > -- > Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ > > > ___ > Leaf-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel > ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 09:08:06AM -0800, Mike Noyes scribbled: > Proposed project description change: > > An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > office, home office, and home automation environments. Most commonly > used as a gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites, LEAF is > very versatile and well suited to many other uses and tasks. > > 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 > note: the short project description is limited to 255 characters. This > change is 261 characters long. > > Comments? s/"Internet leaf sites"// It's most commonly used as a gw/router/fw, period. It's not necesary to qualify that by saying it's a gw/roouter/fw for foobar... I think, actually, saying it's most commonly used for Internet leaf sites will cause most peopel to either be confused or get the wrong impression.. So, removing it would probably be good for the description, as well as for fitting it into 255 chars. > -- > Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ -- rick -- A mind is like a parachute... it only works when it's open. ICQ# 1590117 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Help with LRP: http://lrp.c0wz.com Home page: http://www.c0wz.com ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
Mike: Quick suggestion: sed 'home-automation' to 'home networking'. I've not heard X10 asked for on the LRP list in a long while. And, what's an "Internet leaf site"? Sounds like a web-forest (Mirkwood?). :) Perhaps: 'Most commonly used as a gateway/router/ firewall to enhance Internet security...'. Thanks! -Scott On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Mike Noyes wrote: > At 12:36 PM 1/26/01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:17:26AM -0800, Mike Noyes scribbled: > > > Current project description: > > > ~ An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > > > ~ office, home office, and home automation environments. Although > > > ~ it can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a > > > ~ gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites. > > Proposed project description change: > > An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > office, home office, and home automation environments. Most commonly > used as a gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites, LEAF is > very versatile and well suited to many other uses and tasks. > > 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 > note: the short project description is limited to 255 characters. This > change is 261 characters long. > > Comments? > > -- > Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ > > > ___ > Leaf-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel > ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
At 12:36 PM 1/26/01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:17:26AM -0800, Mike Noyes scribbled: > > Current project description: > > ~ An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > > ~ office, home office, and home automation environments. Although > > ~ it can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a > > ~ gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites. Proposed project description change: An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small office, home office, and home automation environments. Most commonly used as a gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites, LEAF is very versatile and well suited to many other uses and tasks. 1234567890123456789012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 note: the short project description is limited to 255 characters. This change is 261 characters long. Comments? -- Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
Re: [Leaf-devel] Project Description
Here I go, answering a question asked to somebody else again.. :) On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 08:17:26AM -0800, Mike Noyes scribbled: > Current project description: > ~ An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small > ~ office, home office, and home automation environments. Although it > ~ can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a > ~ gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites. > > >a flexible system which can be used on embedded hardware or regular PC's, > >for enterprise tasks or simple home use. > > Jack, > Are you suggesting a change in the first sentence? Actually, I'd suggest a change of the last: "Although it can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a..." may read better as "LEAF is versatile enough to be used in many other ways, but sees it's most common use as a..." Or maybe "Most commonly used as a gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites, LEAF is very versatile and well suited to many other uses and tasks." Yes, I like that last one better than the previous suggestion I made above it. > -- > Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ -- rick -- A mind is like a parachute... it only works when it's open. ICQ# 1590117 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (home) Help with LRP: http://lrp.c0wz.com Home page: http://www.c0wz.com ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
[Leaf-devel] Project Description
At 07:55 AM 1/26/01 -0800, Jack Coates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >The way I see it (FWIW) is that LEAF is Current project description: ~ An easy to use embedded Linux network appliance for use in small ~ office, home office, and home automation environments. Although it ~ can be used in other ways, it's primarily used as a ~ gateway/router/firewall for Internet leaf sites. >a flexible system which can be used on embedded hardware or regular PC's, >for enterprise tasks or simple home use. Jack, Are you suggesting a change in the first sentence? >I think that a year from now we'll have easy-like-pie disk images for home >users, more complex CD and ZIP images for advanced routing and analysis >(big brother, LIDS, and MRTG are getting me excited), and package bundles >that would allow the savvy user to do anything the hardware they choose to >use is capable of. > >And the easier it is to use, the bigger a butt-rash it will give to Cisco >and Juniper :-) Should we order a case of cortisone cream for them? ;) -- Mike Noyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ ___ Leaf-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-devel
