Re: server numbers was Linux community
An old aphorism from a boxing gym: it's not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog. I can have less than 10 linux Domino servers providing mail to over 100,000 users - - or 200 servers doing Oracle - - or 300 doing WAS - You get the picture. It's all in the apps. David -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port on behalf of Mark Post Sent: Fri 11/30/2007 8:24 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: server numbers was Linux community >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 8:09 PM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, David Kreuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All: THE NUMBERS FOR SERVERS COUNTED IN THE PREVIOUS POST AT THE PROVINCE OF > QUEBEC ARE NOT CORRECT AS STATED. > Nor do any of my presentations contain numbers remotely close to those > stated in the email post referenced below. > The correct number is on or nearer to 200 or so servers. > > Repeat: the number of servers is nowhere near 650. Aw, c'mon David. You need to get into the "my installation is bigger than yours" frame of mind! (Besides, you just severely disappointed your Novell sales rep.) :) Thanks for the correction. It's always nice to hear from someone that is actually hands-on. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: server numbers was Linux community
I was at a CMG Canada presentation that was a repeat of the one given at SHARE regarding this project. I thought the number was closer to 140; that could just be the ORACLE serversn though (my so-called mind could be failing). That was with three IFL's. You can go up to 54 of them. While not scalar, that's still a lot of virtual servers. - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -Original Message- From: David Kreuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2007 20:09:56 To:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: server numbers was Linux community All: THE NUMBERS FOR SERVERS COUNTED IN THE PREVIOUS POST AT THE PROVINCE OF QUEBEC ARE NOT CORRECT AS STATED. Nor do any of my presentations contain numbers remotely close to those stated in the email post referenced below. The correct number is on or nearer to 200 or so servers. Repeat: the number of servers is nowhere near 650. David Kreuter VM RESOURCES LTD. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port on behalf of Dave Jones Sent: Thu 11/29/2007 5:13 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz I believe that the Prov. of Quebec reports that they are now running 650+ Linux guests in support of Oracle workloads on a z9-EC system, with the intent of going to 900+ Linux images sometime in the near future. This is product type workloads as well, not simply development images. David Kreuter can give more details if anyone is interested, I suspect. Mark Post wrote: On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 5:00 PM, in message > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Summerfield > -snip- >> which raises a question I've been pondering for some time... >> >> What's a reasonable upper limit on the number of Linux guests on a >> well-proportioned Z these days? > > That's seriously into "it depends" territory. If you're running SAP, > WebSphere, or a number of other really piggish workloads, the number could be > very low. > > > Mark Post > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: From the Ubuntu Book - Second Edition ISBN 9780132354134
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 8:18 PM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ivan Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Mark Post wrote: >> Yes, they're now trying to push Ubuntu in the server market. I have no idea > just how minuscule their "market share" is in that regard, but I imagine it's > pretty small. Most people who really want a F/LOSS server have gone with > Debian. Those who are more pragmatic use SLES or RHEL. Until someone in the > Ubuntu community feels strongly enough to put the time and effort in (and I > know all too well, that is a *lot* of time and effort), there won't be a > version for the mainframe. >> >> If there *is* someone out there, reading this, that feels that strongly, > there are a couple of options open to you for doing the build on real > mainframe hardware. It doesn't have to be all cross-compiles, or Hercules. >> >> > My understanding here is that there are more than just what you are > stating (if you allow me to be as daring to come forth with such a bold > statement :P).. I think "minuscule" in terms of server deployments in general is correct, but if you have pointers to references, I'm more than happy to take a look so I can be correct in the future. > First debian is utterly lacking a full s390x (read z/Arch) userland.. > Well.. They have the necessary tools to build s390x binaries, but no > such thing as a full s390x distro.. I believe that simply comes from a > lack of interest and manpower to do that.. I wouldn't say "lack of interest." The manpower is more of an issue. I know "they" just as I with Slack/390, have been working on a 64-bit version for some time. One thing people need to keep in mind is that if you don't really need a 64-bit, the 31-bit versions run just fine on System z hardware. > Second (and this addresses all distros != SLES|RHEL) is the lack of ISV > support for those (and this is not a s390/s390x thing.. it's cross > platform)... Absolutely. It's really too costly for an ISV to certify their software on something that isn't going to be running on a _lot_ of systems, and keep it reasonably affordable. It's one of the things that I wish were different, but it is reality. > Of course, this is not really a 'linux' issue per-se (more > a glibc & consort problem). But basically what is putting off a lot of > people from going for, say, a full debian system is that it's close to > impossible to run some of the midleware that most applications now need. I haven't heard that before. Do you mean the software doesn't work, or it is just not certified and supported by the ISV? > The ubuntu folks (read Canonical) do provide (if you read the PR) > professional grade support (never tried it though).. The only big diff > here is that ubuntu is supposedly providing the exact and same distro > out in the wild to the general public than the per-for-support one (in > contrast to novell/redhat which have 2 different deliverables) .. >Of > course, "public" distros make little sense for s390x (considering the > number of people that have a z9 in their living room) so since ubuntu > seems to be heavily relying on public support for its internal support, > then it's not just a matter of compiling/porting the thing. As the maintainer/developer of Slack/390, I would of course disagree to some extent. I may not have a _lot_ of users, but I do have some, and a number of those are using it for production. > Now.. compiling an entire GNU/Linux system on hercules.. boy ! you > really need to have time on your hand (or a truckload of CPU > horsepower). Because otherwise, we're talking weeks ! Umm, it takes more than "weeks" on real mainframe hardware. And, as I said, for anyone that is really serious about doing the work needed to put out another distribution, Hercules is not the only choice available. If it were, I would probably still be working on compiling Slackware 8.something. > Anyway.. that was just my €.02 (I doubt my Euro sign will get through.. > So that "?" is actually a euro sign for those wondering) Actually, it did, at least for me. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: server numbers was Linux community
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 8:09 PM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, David Kreuter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > All: THE NUMBERS FOR SERVERS COUNTED IN THE PREVIOUS POST AT THE PROVINCE OF > QUEBEC ARE NOT CORRECT AS STATED. > Nor do any of my presentations contain numbers remotely close to those > stated in the email post referenced below. > The correct number is on or nearer to 200 or so servers. > > Repeat: the number of servers is nowhere near 650. Aw, c'mon David. You need to get into the "my installation is bigger than yours" frame of mind! (Besides, you just severely disappointed your Novell sales rep.) :) Thanks for the correction. It's always nice to hear from someone that is actually hands-on. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: From the Ubuntu Book - Second Edition ISBN 9780132354134
Mark Post wrote: Yes, they're now trying to push Ubuntu in the server market. I have no idea just how minuscule their "market share" is in that regard, but I imagine it's pretty small. Most people who really want a F/LOSS server have gone with Debian. Those who are more pragmatic use SLES or RHEL. Until someone in the Ubuntu community feels strongly enough to put the time and effort in (and I know all too well, that is a *lot* of time and effort), there won't be a version for the mainframe. If there *is* someone out there, reading this, that feels that strongly, there are a couple of options open to you for doing the build on real mainframe hardware. It doesn't have to be all cross-compiles, or Hercules. My understanding here is that there are more than just what you are stating (if you allow me to be as daring to come forth with such a bold statement :P).. First debian is utterly lacking a full s390x (read z/Arch) userland.. Well.. They have the necessary tools to build s390x binaries, but no such thing as a full s390x distro.. I believe that simply comes from a lack of interest and manpower to do that.. Second (and this addresses all distros != SLES|RHEL) is the lack of ISV support for those (and this is not a s390/s390x thing.. it's cross platform)... Of course, this is not really a 'linux' issue per-se (more a glibc & consort problem). But basically what is putting off a lot of people from going for, say, a full debian system is that it's close to impossible to run some of the midleware that most applications now need. The ubuntu folks (read Canonical) do provide (if you read the PR) professional grade support (never tried it though).. The only big diff here is that ubuntu is supposedly providing the exact and same distro out in the wild to the general public than the per-for-support one (in contrast to novell/redhat which have 2 different deliverables) .. Of course, "public" distros make little sense for s390x (considering the number of people that have a z9 in their living room) so since ubuntu seems to be heavily relying on public support for its internal support, then it's not just a matter of compiling/porting the thing. Now.. compiling an entire GNU/Linux system on hercules.. boy ! you really need to have time on your hand (or a truckload of CPU horsepower). Because otherwise, we're talking weeks ! Anyway.. that was just my €.02 (I doubt my Euro sign will get through.. So that "?" is actually a euro sign for those wondering) --Ivan -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: server numbers was Linux community
All: THE NUMBERS FOR SERVERS COUNTED IN THE PREVIOUS POST AT THE PROVINCE OF QUEBEC ARE NOT CORRECT AS STATED. Nor do any of my presentations contain numbers remotely close to those stated in the email post referenced below. The correct number is on or nearer to 200 or so servers. Repeat: the number of servers is nowhere near 650. David Kreuter VM RESOURCES LTD. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port on behalf of Dave Jones Sent: Thu 11/29/2007 5:13 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz I believe that the Prov. of Quebec reports that they are now running 650+ Linux guests in support of Oracle workloads on a z9-EC system, with the intent of going to 900+ Linux images sometime in the near future. This is product type workloads as well, not simply development images. David Kreuter can give more details if anyone is interested, I suspect. Mark Post wrote: On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 5:00 PM, in message > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, John Summerfield > -snip- >> which raises a question I've been pondering for some time... >> >> What's a reasonable upper limit on the number of Linux guests on a >> well-proportioned Z these days? > > That's seriously into "it depends" territory. If you're running SAP, > WebSphere, or a number of other really piggish workloads, the number could be > very low. > > > Mark Post > > -- > For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit > http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
My wife got in trouble once for describing someone as "niggardly". If you think that's racist, please check a dictionary, and don't vote. Dennis "I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." -- Galileo Galilei -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chase, John Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 15:44 To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz > -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of John Summerfield > > McKown, John wrote: > > > > > Many object to the phrase "kill list" that is often used by people to > > describe email which is automatically deleted upon reception. I once > > got a very strong email for using the phrase "twit list". Apparently > > that word is much stronger in other parts of the world than it is here > > in Texas. So I use the fairly neutral phrase "autodelete list" any > > more. It is more descriptive and less likely to be misunderstood. > > I once got an adverse reaction when I described someone else > as penurious, even though I included myself in the same description. Heck, I've been that way since the day I was conceived. :-D But I'm finally approaching solvency. :-) > Americans will need to do their homework on that, while some > others can have a good chuckle. Indeed, it is frightening how many people appear to be so utterly DUMB. And many of them VOTE!! -jc- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
>> Is that a threat? >Seems to me something _I_ don't understand here. I didn't, either. But, the discussion was getting dicey! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
> -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of John Summerfield > > McKown, John wrote: > > > > > Many object to the phrase "kill list" that is often used by people to > > describe email which is automatically deleted upon reception. I once > > got a very strong email for using the phrase "twit list". Apparently > > that word is much stronger in other parts of the world than it is here > > in Texas. So I use the fairly neutral phrase "autodelete list" any > > more. It is more descriptive and less likely to be misunderstood. > > I once got an adverse reaction when I described someone else > as penurious, even though I included myself in the same description. Heck, I've been that way since the day I was conceived. :-D But I'm finally approaching solvency. :-) > Americans will need to do their homework on that, while some > others can have a good chuckle. Indeed, it is frightening how many people appear to be so utterly DUMB. And many of them VOTE!! -jc- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Eric Gericke wrote: parsimonious thrift!!! That's not the primary meaning here, and the whole point. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Ted MacNEIL wrote: Free speech is a good thing but if you do not agree with me, it does not imply that you are a terrorist and should be "bombed/killed"... even if you are in another Continent. Is that a threat? Seems to me something _I_ don't understand here. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo
John Summerfield wrote: Rich Smrcina wrote: If you do a Google search on Linux OQO you'll get a bunch of hits. Puppy Linux, Ubuntu and some others. Last year a guy at the bowling alley was playing with one, pretty cool! I think Puppy's quite small, and then there's DSL. Imagine someone turning up at a job interview, and pulling it out of her bag to show you:-) I forgot some important words, "running the Zed OS of interest." -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
OpenSolaris Follows Linux to the Mainframe
http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9826527-39.html -- Rich Smrcina VM Assist, Inc. Phone: 414-491-6001 Ans Service: 360-715-2467 rich.smrcina at vmassist.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2008 - Chattanooga - April 18-22, 2008 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo
Rich Smrcina wrote: If you do a Google search on Linux OQO you'll get a bunch of hits. Puppy Linux, Ubuntu and some others. Last year a guy at the bowling alley was playing with one, pretty cool! I think Puppy's quite small, and then there's DSL. Imagine someone turning up at a job interview, and pulling it out of her bag to show you:-) -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: From the Ubuntu Book - Second Edition ISBN 9780132354134
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 5:55 PM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Anton Britz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -snip- > Ubuntu is a world-class server platform today, providing evrything you'd > expect from a server OS and with the human flavor that makes Ubuntu > different. Yes, they're now trying to push Ubuntu in the server market. I have no idea just how minuscule their "market share" is in that regard, but I imagine it's pretty small. Most people who really want a F/LOSS server have gone with Debian. Those who are more pragmatic use SLES or RHEL. Until someone in the Ubuntu community feels strongly enough to put the time and effort in (and I know all too well, that is a *lot* of time and effort), there won't be a version for the mainframe. If there *is* someone out there, reading this, that feels that strongly, there are a couple of options open to you for doing the build on real mainframe hardware. It doesn't have to be all cross-compiles, or Hercules. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
parsimonious thrift!!! - Original Message - From: "John Summerfield" To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 08:21:46 +0900 McKown, John wrote: > > Many object to the phrase "kill list" that is often used by people to > describe email which is automatically deleted upon reception. I once got > a very strong email for using the phrase "twit list". Apparently that > word is much stronger in other parts of the world than it is here in > Texas. So I use the fairly neutral phrase "autodelete list" any more. It > is more descriptive and less likely to be misunderstood. I once got an adverse reaction when I described someone else as penurious, even though I included myself in the same description. Americans will need to do their homework on that, while some others can have a good chuckle. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Over 2 Million Holiday Gift Ideas - Take a Look! mail.com shopping at http://mail.shopping.com/?linkin_id=8033174 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
McKown, John wrote: Many object to the phrase "kill list" that is often used by people to describe email which is automatically deleted upon reception. I once got a very strong email for using the phrase "twit list". Apparently that word is much stronger in other parts of the world than it is here in Texas. So I use the fairly neutral phrase "autodelete list" any more. It is more descriptive and less likely to be misunderstood. I once got an adverse reaction when I described someone else as penurious, even though I included myself in the same description. Americans will need to do their homework on that, while some others can have a good chuckle. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: SuSE sudo levels
Mark Post wrote: SLES9 SP4 is well under way. I can't find the RPMs associated with it right now, so I can't tell if the version of sudo will be newer or not. I suspect it will not be newer. If you download sudo from source and compile it yourself, it will void support for sudo, but not your system as a whole. And, if you run into a problem, and are able to replicate it with the supported version of sudo, then you can still file a support request. At least, that's been the policy for other things. You would need to ask officially through your normal support channels to get an official answer. If you do decide to compile your own, please, please, use the .spec file from the current source RPM as the basis for your package. Modify it as needed to reference new versions, try to see if any patch files included in the current SRPM are still applicable, etc. You're much more likely to get a usable package that way. First place to look for a new version is the opensuse stream, 10.3 or the later developments. Odds are good it will just build and install, and at some point, when you upgrade to sles11, it is likely to get upgraded to a supported version. If you use an unsupported package, the onus is on you to track security problems. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Ivan Warren wrote: The day I showed that to some IBM person, he kind of freaked out.. Not because I was running hercules.. But because I was running VM on a *HP* branded machine[1] ;) --Ivan [1] In retrospect, I now realize how gross that was ! yeah, should have been a Fujitsu-branded system. Far more credible. -- Cheers John -- spambait [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Advice http://webfoot.com/advice/email.top.php http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 You cannot reply off-list:-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
From the Ubuntu Book - Second Edition ISBN 9780132354134
Page 152 : The Ubuntu Server : The system administrator crowds, easily irritable and feisty by nature, were greatly annoyed: They procliamed Ubuntu was just a desktop Distribution and sauntered back to their caves in contempt. Luckily, the sentiment is just that.. a MYTH. Ubuntu is a world-class server platform today, providing evrything you'd expect from a server OS and with the human flavor that makes Ubuntu different. Note: "Say no more"... Anton Britz -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: SuSE sudo levels
Peter E. Abresch Jr. - at Pepco wrote: SuSE sudo levels We are working on a project to consolidate Linux userid management. We are moving our Linux Users from each Linux Guest and will manage them using CA-ACF2 and PAM. Interesting; I'm about to embark on the same process. However we ran into a slight problem. We use sudo to control root access and then define the privileged users to group wheel. I have already set this up, pre-PAM, so I'm interested to see what the results are. Right now I don't have the problem of having a problem when wheel is not my primary group. We do this for all our guests. The problem appears to be sudo not recognizing group wheel if it is not the users primary group and the group is assigned outside of /etc/group, for example, ldap. In our case, we changed nsswitch.conf to reflect the following: passwd: CA_esm compat group: CA_esm compat We think this problem has been corrected with sudo version 1.6.9 (see http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/current.html ) Sudo now uses the supplemental group vector for matching. This fixes problems with split group lines in /etc/group as well as multiple group sources in nsswitch.conf. Here is the problem, we are running the following guests: SuSE SLES10x SP1 Kernel 2.6.16.53-0.18-default with Sudo version 1.6.8p12 SuSE SLES9x SP3 Kernel 2.6.5-7.287.3 with Sudo version 1.6.7p5 Unfortunately these are the latest versions of sudo that Novell has released for these Linux Distributions according to YaST. We pay for updates and patches so the question is, Can we get the latest sudo version from Novell or do I have to download it and build it myself? If I have to build it myself, does it void any support type warranties with Novell? As always, thanks in advance. Peter I'll try to keep in the loop here, and please feel fre to contact me and keep me up to date on what problems you have with ACF2 and the wheel group. Kim -- Kim Goldenberg Systems Programmer I State of NJ - OIT 609-777-3722 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 begin:vcard fn:Kim Goldenberg n:Goldenberg;Kim org:State of New Jersey;Office of Information Technology (OIT) adr:200 Riverview Plaza;;PO Box 212;Trenton;NJ;08625-0212;USA email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Systems Programmer I tel;work:609-777-3722 tel;fax:609-777-3939 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:http://www.state.nj.us version:2.1 end:vcard
Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390
Coming into this a bit late, so sorry if I missed the point... On Red Hat, there's a supplied kernel-devel package that has JUST ENOUGH of the kernel source to allow you to build third-party modules. You only really need the full source package if you're going to rebuild the kernel itself, or modules that are officially part of the source tree. They use symlinks from /usr/lib/modules/bla-bla into /usr/src/linux/kernels/bla-bla too. -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Post Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 2:20 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Building kernel modules on Linux 390 >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 3:40 AM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rob van der Heij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -snip- > I have a vague recollection that you also need to install the > additional packages that ship the source of assorted kernel modules > (like vmcp for example). Admitted my most intimate experiences with > the process go back to SLES7 and SLES8, but building the SuSE Linux > kernel out of sources was extremely tricky (relied on other things > happening in the right order, but not validating that). These days (speaking of SLE10), the kernel packages have the symlinks into /usr/src/, and all you really need is the kernel-source RPM, and your own code, to build kernel modules. I haven't really tried to build a whole kernel recently, but I believe it just requires a "make somekindofconfig" followed by "make image" with an optional "make modules". Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: SuSE sudo levels
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 9:31 AM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Peter E. Abresch Jr. - at Pepco" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -snip- > Here is the problem, we are running the following guests: > > SuSE SLES10x SP1 Kernel 2.6.16.53-0.18-default with Sudo version 1.6.8p12 > > SuSE SLES9x SP3 Kernel 2.6.5-7.287.3 with Sudo version 1.6.7p5 > > Unfortunately these are the latest versions of sudo that Novell has > released for these Linux Distributions according to YaST. We pay for > updates and patches so the question is, Can we get the latest sudo version > from Novell or do I have to download it and build it myself? If I have to > build it myself, does it void any support type warranties with Novell? SLES9 SP4 is well under way. I can't find the RPMs associated with it right now, so I can't tell if the version of sudo will be newer or not. I suspect it will not be newer. If you download sudo from source and compile it yourself, it will void support for sudo, but not your system as a whole. And, if you run into a problem, and are able to replicate it with the supported version of sudo, then you can still file a support request. At least, that's been the policy for other things. You would need to ask officially through your normal support channels to get an official answer. If you do decide to compile your own, please, please, use the .spec file from the current source RPM as the basis for your package. Modify it as needed to reference new versions, try to see if any patch files included in the current SRPM are still applicable, etc. You're much more likely to get a usable package that way. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 3:40 AM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rob van der Heij <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -snip- > I have a vague recollection that you also need to install the > additional packages that ship the source of assorted kernel modules > (like vmcp for example). Admitted my most intimate experiences with > the process go back to SLES7 and SLES8, but building the SuSE Linux > kernel out of sources was extremely tricky (relied on other things > happening in the right order, but not validating that). These days (speaking of SLE10), the kernel packages have the symlinks into /usr/src/, and all you really need is the kernel-source RPM, and your own code, to build kernel modules. I haven't really tried to build a whole kernel recently, but I believe it just requires a "make somekindofconfig" followed by "make image" with an optional "make modules". Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo
I've been watching the OQO for a couple of years now. The only thing holding me back has been the price. There are a number of similar devices in the UMPC form factor. I DID buy a mini-pc a couple of years ago that runs Linux and Hercules very well. It's about the size of a CD player, but that has no keyboard or display of it's own. (Similar to a Mac-mini.) It WAS considerably cheaper than an OQO or UMPC though. http://www.boldata.com -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Post Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 1:49 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 1:44 PM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jay Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -snip- > Has anyone gotten Linux running on it? I'm not interested in a Windows box, > but if it ran Linux, I'd buy one just to run Hercules on for the cool > factor. It would appear a number of people have, according to Google: http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6231/1/ http://www.handtops.com/forum/752/0//OQO_Linux_Installation__amp_Configu rati.html http://www.handtops.com/forum/752/0//OQO_Linux_Installation__amp_Configu rati.html --- lots more--- Mark Post http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
> Free speech is a good thing but if you do not agree with me, it does not > imply that you are a terrorist and should be "bombed/killed"... even if you > are in another Continent. Is that a threat? Do you not get it? Nobody is truly interested in your posts! - Too busy driving to stop for gas! -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
PL/I on Linux (was Re: Linux community.....)
Hi, Mark. I'm aware of that effort and I have been keeping an eye on it from time to time. It does look promising, and we'll know a lot more when it finally begins to generate real executable code. BTW, if you go to the SourceForge page for the project and download the current *.zip file, you'll find two interesting PL/I applications in the samples directory. One add object oriented programming constructs to PL/I and the other is a package for managing yacht races.something we all need form time to time, I'm sure:-) Mark Perry wrote: Dave Jones wrote: But first we would need a really good PL/I compiler, which in itself, is not a bad thing. I would really like to have a reasonable alternative to C for implementing things in Linux, for all of the reasons plus some, that DB mentions below. Dave, I think they are looking for developers ;-) http://pl1gcc.sourceforge.net/ Mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Friday, 11/30/2007 at 12:59 EST, Mark Post <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > No one said anything like this,until you did just now. From my perspective, > this appears to be a threat against Rob, which is clearly unacceptable. Stop > it. I'm copying the owner of this list so he can look and make his own > determination on that. Boys, boys, boys now both of you stop this nonsense right now. Don't make me stop the car! If Anton works with Linux on System z and wants help to understand why that's a Good Thing, then we owe him honest answers without rancor. We all want him to succeed, right? Maybe he's feels, rightly or wrongly, that zLinux is threatening his z/OS systems and is upset by that prospect. I don't know. I have run into some ex-pat z/OSers who've been thrown into the VM/Linux arena without any real understanding of why. All they experience is "take from z/OS, give to Linux", not recognizing (or even being told about!) the larger "take from distributed, give to centralized" context. Anton: If you come here in good faith to learn what folks here have learned before you, and you are willing to share your concerns in a constructive way, then everyone will benefit. If you just bait the participants, then you will face a stony silence if you should ever need real help. Remember that this listserver is THE place to get information on the right way to use Linux on the mainframe -- it's not a resource to be casually discarded. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo
If you do a Google search on Linux OQO you'll get a bunch of hits. Puppy Linux, Ubuntu and some others. Last year a guy at the bowling alley was playing with one, pretty cool! Jay Maynard wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 01:30:49PM -0500, Gentry, Stephen wrote: Mark, goto oqo.com I didn't know such a device existed, but it was inevitable that it would. Yeah, it would be pretty neat with it running Hercules and then a mainframe os Has anyone gotten Linux running on it? I'm not interested in a Windows box, but if it ran Linux, I'd buy one just to run Hercules on for the cool factor. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!) Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- Rich Smrcina VM Assist, Inc. Phone: 414-491-6001 Ans Service: 360-715-2467 rich.smrcina at vmassist.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/richsmrcina Catch the WAVV! http://www.wavv.org WAVV 2008 - Chattanooga - April 18-22, 2008 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 1:44 PM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jay Maynard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -snip- > Has anyone gotten Linux running on it? I'm not interested in a Windows box, > but if it ran Linux, I'd buy one just to run Hercules on for the cool > factor. It would appear a number of people have, according to Google: http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6231/1/ http://www.handtops.com/forum/752/0//OQO_Linux_Installation__amp_Configurati.html http://www.handtops.com/forum/752/0//OQO_Linux_Installation__amp_Configurati.html --- lots more--- Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo
On Nov 30, 2007, at 12:44 PM, Jay Maynard wrote: On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 01:30:49PM -0500, Gentry, Stephen wrote: Mark, goto oqo.com I didn't know such a device existed, but it was inevitable that it would. Yeah, it would be pretty neat with it running Hercules and then a mainframe os Has anyone gotten Linux running on it? I'm not interested in a Windows box, but if it ran Linux, I'd buy one just to run Hercules on for the cool factor. http://linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6231/1/ So, apparently, "yes". Adam -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo
On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 01:30:49PM -0500, Gentry, Stephen wrote: > Mark, goto oqo.com I didn't know such a device existed, but it was > inevitable that it would. Yeah, it would be pretty neat with it running > Hercules and then a mainframe os Has anyone gotten Linux running on it? I'm not interested in a Windows box, but if it ran Linux, I'd buy one just to run Hercules on for the cool factor. -- Jay Maynard, K5ZC http://www.conmicro.com http://jmaynard.livejournal.com http://www.tronguy.net http://www.hercules-390.org (Yes, that's me!) Buy Hercules stuff at http://www.cafepress.com/hercules-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Little piddley PC - handheld. K -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Post Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:39 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz >>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 8:36 AM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Hall, Ken (GTI)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One of my personal fantasies is to run zOS under Hercules on an OQO. What's an "OQO?" I haven't seen that name before. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz: oqo
Mark, goto oqo.com I didn't know such a device existed, but it was inevitable that it would. Yeah, it would be pretty neat with it running Hercules and then a mainframe os Steve G. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
> -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Mark Post > Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 11:59 AM > To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU > Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris > running on Systemz > > > Free speech is a good thing but if you do not agree with > me, it does not > > imply that you are a terrorist and should be > "bombed/killed"... even if you > > are in another Continent. > > No one said anything like this,until you did just now. From > my perspective, this appears to be a threat against Rob, > which is clearly unacceptable. Stop it. I'm copying the > owner of this list so he can look and make his own > determination on that. > > > Mark Post Mark, John Chase in one message stated: "I kill-filed the Britz entity some time ago...". Many object to the phrase "kill list" that is often used by people to describe email which is automatically deleted upon reception. I once got a very strong email for using the phrase "twit list". Apparently that word is much stronger in other parts of the world than it is here in Texas. So I use the fairly neutral phrase "autodelete list" any more. It is more descriptive and less likely to be misunderstood. -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. It is for intended addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited and could, in certain circumstances, be a criminal offense. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply and delete this message without copying or disclosing it. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 8:36 AM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Hall, Ken (GTI)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > One of my personal fantasies is to run zOS under Hercules on an OQO. What's an "OQO?" I haven't seen that name before. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Getting PL/1
> When I heard that the Multics source code had been released, and that it > included a PL/I compiler, I tried to find it, but had no luck. SYS:STAGE1 on the install volume is the executable for the lexical analyzer. I'm still hunting for the source; the published version isn't the canonical organization that used to be good practice for Multics installs, so it's not where I remember it being. > I'm > wondering if the GNU project could make some use of that for their own > project. Tricky. Big chunks of the Multics PL/1 compiler were written in assembler, so it's really nonportable. Also, the Multics source still carries the Bull copyrights, so you couldn't reuse the code in GPL land without reworking it. Getting a full LLR-clean grammar for PL/1 that flex/bison can handle would be a more useful first step. OS PL/1 also had a bunch of extensions that are not in the PL/1 formal spec, so we'd need to diagram those too. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 11:46 AM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Anton Britz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -snip- > b) Why do I have "spaces" in my email and lets debate the "spaces in my > email" ? > > I am not going here because this should not be relevant to the debate and > hopefully, I do not get questions like this in future. I wasn't aware this was a debate. It appeared to more of a debunking of a lot of nonsense. It seems you didn't get the intent of Rob's message. He wasn't really objecting to the blank lines, so much as the complete lack of informative content in the lines that appeared to be non-blank. > c) Rob van der Heij ? > > Free speech is a good thing but if you do not agree with me, it does not > imply that you are a terrorist and should be "bombed/killed"... even if you > are in another Continent. No one said anything like this,until you did just now. From my perspective, this appears to be a threat against Rob, which is clearly unacceptable. Stop it. I'm copying the owner of this list so he can look and make his own determination on that. Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
>>> On Fri, Nov 30, 2007 at 11:24 AM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, David Boyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: -snip- > Multics actually has a good PL/1 compiler; it's the hardware emulator > that needs work. When I heard that the Multics source code had been released, and that it included a PL/I compiler, I tried to find it, but had no luck. I'm wondering if the GNU project could make some use of that for their own project. Can anyone point me (at least somewhat) directly to the compiler source? Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
> But first we would need a really good PL/I compiler, which in itself, is > not a bad thing. I would really like to have a reasonable alternative to > C for implementing things in Linux, for all of the reasons plus some, > that DB mentions below. Multics actually has a good PL/1 compiler; it's the hardware emulator that needs work. On the other hand, the GNU PL/1 project is out there. It hasn't gotten a lot of work done in a while, but since the basic architecture mirrors the GCC code generation process, what needs to be done is to complete the stage 1 lexical scanner for the full OS PL/1 language set. The backends are already done, as we can leverage what is already been done in GCC. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Hi, I am here... just busy doing some real work but I would answer some questions quickly : a) What am doing on this list ? We are running Susse Linux on a Z box and we are also runiing Linux on Servers... and gradually phasing Microsoft out.. Even at home I am phasing Linux-Mce in but it's painful. b) Why do I have "spaces" in my email and lets debate the "spaces in my email" ? I am not going here because this should not be relevant to the debate and hopefully, I do not get questions like this in future. c) Rob van der Heij ? Free speech is a good thing but if you do not agree with me, it does not imply that you are a terrorist and should be "bombed/killed"... even if you are in another Continent. Summary: Thanks for all the intellectual email's I received "offline" and thanks to those that tried to add value to a technical debate because that is what we all get paid for , I think ? Anton Britz -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
> > accumulator patterns in the proper DEC colors. Includes REAL Emacs, and > > most of the DEC languages (Bliss, C, COBOL, Fortran, etc) that survived. > As they used to say "Bliss is ignorance" ;) On the other hand, at least it (Bliss) actually shipped to customers (vis a vis PL/S). You could fix the OS in the language DEC broke it in. 8-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Dave Jones wrote: But first we would need a really good PL/I compiler, which in itself, is not a bad thing. I would really like to have a reasonable alternative to C for implementing things in Linux, for all of the reasons plus some, that DB mentions below. http://pl1gcc.sourceforge.net/ -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
> -Original Message- > From: Linux on 390 Port On Behalf Of Adam Thornton > > On Nov 29, 2007, at 5:41 PM, Anton Britz wrote: > > In the mean time, we have to gradually "interlace" Linux with zOS, > > duplicate "Scheduling software", "Accounting" packages etc. because > > IBM and zOS has failed us. > > > Well, if you dislike IBM that much, you certainly could go > run your Linux workload on x86_64 boxes; plenty of people > have done just that. > > I don't understand what you hope to gain on the Linux/390 list. I suspect you will eventually conclude that the Britz entity seeks only to expand its reputation for impertinence and irrelevance, as it did on IBM-MAIN. I kill-filed the Britz entity some time ago, and from what I've seen of its postings quoted here by others, I haven't missed anything. -jc- -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
SuSE sudo levels
SuSE sudo levels
We are working on a project to consolidate Linux userid management. We are
moving our Linux Users from each Linux Guest and will manage them using
CA-ACF2 and PAM. However we ran into a slight problem. We use sudo to
control root access and then define the privileged users to group wheel.
We do this for all our guests. The problem appears to be sudo not
recognizing group wheel if it is not the users primary group and the group
is assigned outside of /etc/group, for example, ldap. In our case, we
changed nsswitch.conf to reflect the following:
passwd: CA_esm compat
group: CA_esm compat
We think this problem has been corrected with sudo version 1.6.9 (see
http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/current.html )
Sudo now uses the supplemental group vector for matching. This fixes
problems with split group lines in /etc/group as well as multiple group
sources in nsswitch.conf.
Here is the problem, we are running the following guests:
SuSE SLES10x SP1 Kernel 2.6.16.53-0.18-default with Sudo version 1.6.8p12
SuSE SLES9x SP3 Kernel 2.6.5-7.287.3 with Sudo version 1.6.7p5
Unfortunately these are the latest versions of sudo that Novell has
released for these Linux Distributions according to YaST. We pay for
updates and patches so the question is, Can we get the latest sudo version
from Novell or do I have to download it and build it myself? If I have to
build it myself, does it void any support type warranties with Novell?
As always, thanks in advance.
Peter
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Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Alan Cox wrote: I used to have Hercules running on an IBM PC-110 (handheld PC). Not terribly useful but very good for "This is the new S/390 portable" mind games with sales people. I did something similar sometime ago.. Had a stripped down version (S/370 only) of hercules running on an iPaq running linux.. Managed to run VM/370 R6 on it.. fine.. The day I showed that to some IBM person, he kind of freaked out.. Not because I was running hercules.. But because I was running VM on a *HP* branded machine[1] ;) --Ivan [1] In retrospect, I now realize how gross that was ! -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: linux minidisk migration
I shutdown Linux, DDR copy the minidisk, update the directory, restart Linux. If you have multiple CMS IDs you multi-task the copies. On Nov 30, 2007 5:20 AM, Jorge Souto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > > I'm starting a migration of linux minidisk from a 3390 group to another > 3390s. > > First option is manual process: stop linux, dirm cloned from old to new > disk > group (or ddr), update guest directory, and test ! > > I've seen DRM tool and I've read some about DFSMS, but I don't know > exactly > if they can help me in this task. > > http://www.vm.ibm.com/download/packages/descript.cgi?DRM > > > Experiences in linux minidisk migration ? > > > > Thanks! > > -- Mark Pace Mainline Information Systems -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
Dave Jones wrote: But first we would need a really good PL/I compiler, which in itself, is not a bad thing. I would really like to have a reasonable alternative to C for implementing things in Linux, for all of the reasons plus some, that DB mentions below. Dave, I think they are looking for developers ;-) http://pl1gcc.sourceforge.net/ Mark -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
But first we would need a really good PL/I compiler, which in itself, is not a bad thing. I would really like to have a reasonable alternative to C for implementing things in Linux, for all of the reasons plus some, that DB mentions below. David Boyes wrote: Yeah, I was going to mention that. The fact that it's written in PL/I is certainly an odd choice, but I guess no stranger than writing an OS in C. As a retired Multician, there's nothing at all odd about Multics being in PL/1. PL/1 is perfectly natural, and has a lot of really nice things in it for writing really, REALLY safe, stable code. You can get away with all kinds of crap in C that PL/1 won't tolerate -- and that way leads to Windows. 8-) Talking about unnatural, though, that Honeywell 601 hardware... that's another story. 8-) -- db -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- DJ V/Soft z/VM and mainframe Linux expertise, training, consulting, and software development www.vsoft-software.com -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
One of my personal fantasies is to run zOS under Hercules on an OQO. Licensing issues aside, THAT would be cool! -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Cox Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 8:18 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: [LINUX-390] Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz > accumulator patterns in the proper DEC colors. Includes REAL Emacs, and > most of the DEC languages (Bliss, C, COBOL, Fortran, etc) that survived. As they used to say "Bliss is ignorance" ;) > I have it running on my handheld -- full-on OPCOM and Galaxy batch in a > shirt pocket. Now that's personal automation. 8-) I used to have Hercules running on an IBM PC-110 (handheld PC). Not terribly useful but very good for "This is the new S/390 portable" mind games with sales people. Alan -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 This message w/attachments (message) may be privileged, confidential or proprietary, and if you are not an intended recipient, please notify the sender, do not use or share it and delete it. Unless specifically indicated, this message is not an offer to sell or a solicitation of any investment products or other financial product or service, an official confirmation of any transaction, or an official statement of Merrill Lynch. Subject to applicable law, Merrill Lynch may monitor, review and retain e-communications (EC) traveling through its networks/systems. The laws of the country of each sender/recipient may impact the handling of EC, and EC may be archived, supervised and produced in countries other than the country in which you are located. This message cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. This message is subject to terms available at the following link: http://www.ml.com/e-communications_terms/. By messaging with Merrill Lynch you consent to the foregoing. -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
> accumulator patterns in the proper DEC colors. Includes REAL Emacs, and > most of the DEC languages (Bliss, C, COBOL, Fortran, etc) that survived. As they used to say "Bliss is ignorance" ;) > I have it running on my handheld -- full-on OPCOM and Galaxy batch in a > shirt pocket. Now that's personal automation. 8-) I used to have Hercules running on an IBM PC-110 (handheld PC). Not terribly useful but very good for "This is the new S/390 portable" mind games with sales people. Alan -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390
I think it was user error! I thought I did an install of kernel-source, but when I went into YaST, it wasn't installed. I redid the install and now it is there. Thanks for the help. Wayne -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Post Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:30 PM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390 >>> On Thu, Nov 29, 2007 at 11:45 PM, in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Wayne Driscoll <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Where do I get the source that comes with the distribution? I installed > the kernel-source package, but it doesn't appear to have everything I > need. That should have been good enough (assuming you already have glibc-devel and the other parts of the toolchain installed). What errors are you getting? Mark Post -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
There are other reasons to use Linux on Z as well. In our case, we are using it as a front end to handle XML input from our users. We run libXML under Linux, convert the inbound XML messages back to our existing message formats and process them right into the existing CICS applications running under z/OS. That way, there were no changes to the existing CICS applications to handle those users that desire to use XML. BTW, the overhead of the XML schema that we were required to use has a HIGH overhead (bad for transmission purposes) when compared to the current message formats (especially when images are shipped in or out of the system (due to the base64 encoding required to ship images in XML)). Kevin -Original Message- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alan Altmark Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 12:48 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz On Thursday, 11/29/2007 at 06:42 EST, Anton Britz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thanks for the explanation but my background is IBM and maybe I am still > trying to get use to "the need to change" everything to a Hierarchal file > structure and many Linux's, below VM. You sound as though you think IBM (or someone else) is trying to get you to convert z/OS to Linux. No dice. IBM would simply like you to consider consolidating your distributed servers onto a mainframe using Linux and z/VM. Or instead of growing the server farm physically, grow it virtually! > VM, the operating system we all tossed out of the "Big Computer Center" > window in the 70's.. and the 80s, and the 90s. > Based on the "Google Story" and "The History" of Linux, they are not > competing with SRM/WLM or HSM or RACF etc. but with the escalating > Infrastructure cost of "The Big Computer" center. Exactly right. > Maybe this was because of the introduction of Escalating Software prices > every time you upgrade the Hardware but the Magician behind the curtain, was > always IBM. Several years ago VM pricing was changed to be a one-time charge per CPU without regard to the size of the CPU. The same is true for Linux middleware marketed by IBM. (And see the references to IFLs, a cheaper CPU type.) You can upgrade the h/w and you don't incur any additional software cost unless you add CPUs. The cost of z/OS, however, remains tied to the capacity of the machine. > Now you are asking us again, to trust IBM... move your Linux Servers onto > our boxes and we will take care of you. I will admit that there were some IBM salespeople with egg on their faces because they whispered "get rid of VM" in the few years before Linux appeared. > In the mean time, we have to gradually "interlace" Linux with zOS, duplicate > "Scheduling software", "Accounting" packages etc. because IBM and zOS has > failed us. You're ignoring the fact that you already using scheduling and accounting packages on your distributed systems. THEY aren't [necessarily] tied to z/OS and there's no reason to do so just because Linux is on z. Until the management software stack becomes more ... "hypervisor aware", you do on zLinux the same things you do on x86 Linux. Alan Altmark z/VM Development IBM Endicott -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
John Summerfield wrote: Don't forget the Windows doesn't actually run very well on Zeds. I'd say "doesn't run," but someone here will stick his hand up and say, "I've done it." Yea, done that in bochs :-) -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
linux minidisk migration
Hi, I'm starting a migration of linux minidisk from a 3390 group to another 3390s. First option is manual process: stop linux, dirm cloned from old to new disk group (or ddr), update guest directory, and test ! I've seen DRM tool and I've read some about DFSMS, but I don't know exactly if they can help me in this task. http://www.vm.ibm.com/download/packages/descript.cgi?DRM Experiences in linux minidisk migration ? Thanks! -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Building kernel modules on Linux 390
On Nov 30, 2007 6:29 AM, Mark Post <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Where do I get the source that comes with the distribution? I installed > > the kernel-source package, but it doesn't appear to have everything I > > need. > > That should have been good enough (assuming you already have glibc-devel and > the other parts of the toolchain installed). What errors are you getting? > I have a vague recollection that you also need to install the additional packages that ship the source of assorted kernel modules (like vmcp for example). Admitted my most intimate experiences with the process go back to SLES7 and SLES8, but building the SuSE Linux kernel out of sources was extremely tricky (relied on other things happening in the right order, but not validating that). There is a big difference between the kernel source 2.6.16 from Novell and the one you download from kernel.org. That's all the fixes that the Novell folks took from later releases and back-ported to 2.6.16. That gives you the stable Enterprise Linux with fixes for the bugs that were found, but not all the new a nifty features with new bugs that have been developed since then (plus some fixes from the IBM Linux team that may not have been accepted yet in the mainstream kernel source). That difference is why you pay for the Enterprise Linux versions. But if you only need to build kernel modules for your running system (as opposed to modification of the kernel and building your own kernel package) then it should be enough to - install kernel-source - copy the config from /boot to /usr/src/linux/.config - run a make oldconfig If the install of kernel-sources does not do so, you might have to make symlinks into /lib/modules/`uname -r`/ Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
Re: Linux community, was Re: Demo of OpenSolaris running on Systemz
On Nov 30, 2007 12:41 AM, Anton Britz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [ snip ] The excessive number of blank lines in your post are to me by far the most informative part of your contribution to this thread. Rob -- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390
