[LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo
Dear Are: Diana Poulton attributed the piece (with reservation) to Dowland based on the fact that it contains several of Dowland's typical devices; the ascending scale passages with a repeated first note, and several tonic/dominant repetitions with inversions. The piece also appears in the manuscript (D9) following another fantasia more securely attributed to Dowland (Poulton #6). I have to agree with you that Poulton #73 doesn't necessarily sound like Dowland, and the fact that the piece really needs reconstruction does not help the matter. There seems to be a tendency to attribute unascribed music to known composers simply because a given piece is good. This is certainly the case with many pieces attributed to Francesco da Milano. Best wishes, Ron Andrico http://www.mignarda.com > Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 23:28:35 +0100> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Poulton > #73 [was] dedillo > Does any of you know why this piece is attributed to Dowland? It is a > > great piece, but to me it doesn't sound like a Dowland piece...> > > Are _ Boo!!Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings
Taco I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying to sell their wares. Also, there is a limit to what they can say without giving away their trade-secrets. One problem in researching historic strings, is that string makers have always kept their recipes secret. Thus, only indirect evidence can often be used to rediscover these processes. And yet, string makers would be by far the best persons to speak about their own strings. However, you will notice that very few do. I gave you an answer because, I did see and hear those strings, however, I am far from being a competent person in this field. I can but use my imagination to think what may be going on in the discovery of these old strings, and metaphors about wine-making are my weak attempts at imagining the sort of difficulties involved. My reply may, anyway, seem a little strange, because I say that the loaded strings seemed quite good, but may not be available. If I heard them why aren't they available? The problem I think is that when you research into old techniques, you may or may not rediscover them; but it is different rediscovering the technique, and using it efficiently to produce the strings in sufficient numbers and in a controlled way to be able to commercialize them. I suppose we can remake glass for the Hall of Mirrors at the Palace of Versailles using the original technique, but they only use old ones from that time, as the original ones used mercury fumes, which are quite lethal, (and also I suppose new ones would look too new, but that is not relevant to the question, here) I am not suggesting that it is exactly the same for a loaded string, but working conditions at the time of historic string making would take little notice of the time spent, or the wastage, or the danger of chemicals. It may have been that most strings were thrown away. Some techniques cannot even be considered today, such as loading with Mercury salts. I imagine that once you have found the original technique, you need to find a modern substitute method that allows you to speed up the production, and control it so that you don't lose most of it. The original loaded strings, on an ordinary hightwist base, were quite good according to Jakob Lindberg. He says about the Rauwolf, "I had it all gut strung, with Dan Larson's gimped strings in the basses, except the last two, (...) where I had one of Mimmo Peruffo's early corde appesantite". He used them on his early Dowland recording, but later the quality was not so good. Perhaps the ones he had first, were the result of a long process of careful "hand-picked" experimental production, the later ones may have been, perhaps, an attempt at making them by a quicker controlled method. If so they may not have been so good. Lindberg says so in his article for the LSA journal. I am not entirely inventing this explanation. Actually, I thought of it, and then I found my thoughts were more or less confirmed by what I found in the FAQ at Aquila's site. I will quote from this : http://www.aquilacorde.com/faqi.htm "46) Why did you suspend the production of loaded (C type) gut strings? (...) The production of loaded gut has been suspended on several important grounds: 1) the manufacturing process was extremely elaborate and difficult to standardize 2) the waste was very high (up to 70%) 3) the selling price could never cover the expenses 4) even after passing our quality control the risk the strings would still develop serious problems (like early breakage or becoming false) and cause justified customers complaints remained high. Seeking new technical solutions for the loading of gut has never been given up, though; we still aim at developing a different procedure that will allow us to produce loaded strings in a less costly, less wasteful and completely reliable way." If the new Venice loaded strings are still the result of a slow experimental research process. MP may not want to begin selling them, until he has perfected the next stage, finding a way of producing them more quickly and with a controlled method. Thus, at the Greenwich early music festival, he could be showing the results of his research experimentation, like any body else reading an article on some aspect of their research into lutemaking or interpretation. Mimmo has possibly not yet perfected the production stage, and may be, he does not know whether he will be able to do so. (I have no idea about that, perhaps on the other hand he is completely ready to produce them). He may nevertheless consider he has gathered enough proof to show that loaded strings did exist and he is now able to show that they can be made, and a
[LUTE] So...where to find more tabs?
i used to work with http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/ to find tabs for some songs (campion, dowland etc.) but they the site is not working for the past few days i need to download tab+lyrics to a new project. i really hate computers... To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: So...where to find more tabs?
On Nov 4, 2007, at 8:47 AM, Omer katzir wrote: > i used to work with http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/ to find > tabs for some songs (campion, dowland etc.) > but they the site is not working for the past few days i need to > download tab+lyrics to a new project. > > i really hate computers... I like to be on the In-ter-net Okay by me on the In-ter-net Everything's free on the In-ter-net For a small fee on the In-ter-net Sorry. You probably have no idea what I'm talking about... Those collections of lute songs (campion, dowland etc.) are available in music libraries, and I imagine most of them are still available commercially. DR [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings
> "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want >to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a >difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they >communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying >to sell their wares." Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches involved. I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 on her Baroque lute. Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded guts on us- please! Dan P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string material or on any instrument? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings
For what it's worth... Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... Alan - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings > "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying to sell their wares." Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches involved. I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 on her Baroque lute. Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded guts on us- please! Dan P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string material or on any instrument? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 01/11/2007 06:01 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings
We luters have it pretty easy worrying only now and then about our h's and k's. Pity the polite citternist who must mind their p's and q's. Sean On Nov 4, 2007, at 11:42 AM, Alan Hoyle wrote: For what it's worth... Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... Alan - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings > "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying to sell their wares." Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches involved. I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 on her Baroque lute. Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded guts on us- please! Dan P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string material or on any instrument? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 01/11/2007 06:01 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings /Re: marker at 7th fret
Uh-oh boys 'n girls- we're mixing our threads here. I've never felt strongly about the marker marks except that they've always bothered me aesthetically- but on rare occasions helped me out when playing strictly from memory; which (classical) guitarists have always done far more than any of us lute critters. (How do you get the guitarist to shut up? -Give him sheet music) I still want answers about the new, improved loaded basses that are UNDOUBTEDLY coming our way any minute now... .. And isn't it interesting that by the mid 17th century, seventy some years after the Great String Improvement the French lutenists had dropped the 1st course down to "f", singled out the 2nd, and re-established 8ves at the 6th. Of course Dowland could have been voicing a musically elite and minority opinion in regard to the unison 6th. Not sure what the norm was for 8ves in Italy- but still set up for mostly doubled firsts on liuti attorbiati, no? Dan >For what it's worth... > >Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes >off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of >our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I >might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... > >Alan >- Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings > >> > "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want >>>to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a >>>difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they >>>communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying >>>to sell their wares." >> >>Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated >>commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest >>conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the >>hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of >>us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the >>other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They >>were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches >>involved. >> >>I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for >>the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've >>encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At >>the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a >>very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 >>on her Baroque lute. >> >>Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded >>guts on us- please! Dan >> >>P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing >>cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string >>material or on any instrument? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>-- >> >> >> >>To get on or off this list see list information at >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> >>-- >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: >>01/11/2007 06:01 >> > > >-- >I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. >It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. >Paying users do not have this message in their emails. >Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -- Rachel Winheld 820 Colusa Avenue Berkeley, CA 94707 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel 510.526.0242 Cell 510.915.4276
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings
A tiny dot on the 3rd, 5th and 7th for me, only because as a geeetarist I like the reference it gives me, so I've carried it over to the lute. I'd also like the lists opinion on fixed metal frets, I had a rather heated discussion with a classical guitarist recently who was very critical of what he called the 'plastic frets' that we lutenists use. -Original Message- From: Alan Hoyle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 November 2007 19:43 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Daniel Winheld Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings For what it's worth... Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... Alan - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings > > "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want >>to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a >>difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they >>communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying >>to sell their wares." > > Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated > commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest > conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the > hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of > us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the > other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They > were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches > involved. > > I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for > the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've > encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At > the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a > very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 > on her Baroque lute. > > Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded > guts on us- please! Dan > > P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing > cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string > material or on any instrument? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: > 01/11/2007 06:01 > > -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len
[LUTE] So...where to find more tabs?
- Original Message - From: "Omer katzir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 1:47 PM Subject: [LUTE] So...where to find more tabs? i used to work with http://www.gerbode.net/ft2/composers/ to find tabs for some songs (campion, dowland etc.) but they the site is not working for the past few days i need to download tab+lyrics to a new project. i really hate computers... How did you manage for music before you had a computer? Stewart McCoy. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo
I am unaware of any unascribed works that have been assigned to Francesco, except for that ricercar by "Incerto" in the Chilesotti Codice Lauten-Buch (and several other places, incl. Bottegari--do you attribute it to Francesco in your Bottegari edition?). Could you provide us with some examples of what you are referring to? ==AJN Boston, Mass. This week's free download from Classical Music Library: Lalo "Symphonie espagnole" Go to my web page: http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ For some free scores, go to: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ - Original Message - From: "Ron Andrico" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Are Vidar Boye Hansen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "G.R. Crona" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 5:38 AM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo Dear Are: Diana Poulton attributed the piece (with reservation) to Dowland based on the fact that it contains several of Dowland's typical devices; the ascending scale passages with a repeated first note, and several tonic/dominant repetitions with inversions. The piece also appears in the manuscript (D9) following another fantasia more securely attributed to Dowland (Poulton #6). I have to agree with you that Poulton #73 doesn't necessarily sound like Dowland, and the fact that the piece really needs reconstruction does not help the matter. There seems to be a tendency to attribute unascribed music to known composers simply because a given piece is good. This is certainly the case with many pieces attributed to Francesco da Milano. Best wishes, Ron Andrico http://www.mignarda.com Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 23:28:35 +0100> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo > Does any of you know why this piece is attributed to > Dowland? It is a > great piece, but to me it doesn't > sound like a Dowland piece...> > > Are _ Boo!!Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try Windows Live OneCare! http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] )Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal]
They've been cracking down laterly. And I think we can expect more as the industry flexes its muscles. One woman from Duluth was fined $220,000 for copyright infringement, just a few days ago (she could have been fined three million dollars, according to news reports). http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071004233021.itudt24b&show_arhttp://www.breitbart.com Here's the unfortunate results of Universal Editions cease and desist threat. It's possible there will be NO IMSLP in the future. The NEC student has apparently given up in frustration. From MLA-List As I am sure a number of you on this list know already, IMSLP (www.imslp.org) is now the largest site of downloadable public domain scores available on the internet, with more than 15,000 scores, 9000 titles and 1000 composers. Unfortunately, the project has grown so large that the site's owner (a music student at New England Conservatory) can no longer afford the great amount of time and expense required to run this site. We are therefore looking for universty sponsors - preferably a music library - to host both the Canadian and United States versions of the site, with possible alternative mirrors located in the EU and Asia. This has been partially precipitated by a recent threat of litigation on the part of Universal Edition of Vienna Austria, who apparently wishes to enforce EU copyright laws in Canada and the USA. Please direct any inquiries to [EMAIL PROTECTED] The site will be taken down for the next several days for maintenence and to remove certain titles in order to comply with demands in the Cease and Desist letter from UE's lawyers until volunteer attorneys at the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic of the University of Ottawa Law School can prepare an adequate response to the legal intimidation tactics employed by UE. ==AJN Boston, Mass. This week's free download: Lalo Symphonie espagnole Go to my web page: http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ For some free scores, go to: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ - Original Message - From: "Caroline Usher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "lutenet" Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 3:23 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal] There is a long-standing effort to do for musical iconography what RILM and RIMM do for musicology and music manuscripts, respectively: http://web.gc.cuny.edu/rcmi/index.htm They don't seem to be very web-oriented. Possibly they are concerned about copyright issues in putting their images online (a 400-year-old work of art is in the public domain, but the museum slide or reproduction in a published volume is not.) They tried to develop a cataloguing system for images of musical instruments. Unfortunately they kept revising the rules as they went along and discovered that the [1-page] [10-page] [25-page] rule sets were inadequate. I had some correspondence with them a couple of decades ago, which broke down because they wanted a set of clearly distinguished types of lute. each with its own distinct name. I kept trying to explain that the lute family was not standardized and that you would need to specify, insofar as possible, the number of strings, number of nuts/pegboxes, etc. They would write back and say, "Yes, but we need /one name/ for each type." They didn't get that the lute is polymorphously perverse. I also wrote my master's thesis for the School of Information and Library Science at UNC on the history of their cataloguing rules. Short summary: They shoulda asked a librarian. Caroline Original Message Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:59:18 +0100 From: G. Crona <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: CC: Susanne Herre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Good idea Susanne! It would be most convenient to have a site where as much as possible of the iconography could be found. Well catalogisized and in both tumbnails and bigger versions. A sort of mini Wikipedia like, where we could go in and add information if available. I believe Alfonso reads the list, perhaps he has some ideas of how to go about to do this? B.R. G. - Original Message - From: "Susanne Herre" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, October 28, 2007 4:25 PM Subject: [LUTE] Lute iconographic project - a proposal Dear all, I liked very much the website of Alfonso Marin about the Lute iconography. Thank you very much for this work! Woulnd't it be good if this could get a more official character und could be enlarged by the help of us all (I guess nearly every body has digital photographs of lute angels, pictures, instruments in museums a.s.o. which would be interesting for everyone and which we could send to Alfonso Marin)? Then it would be helpful if the pictures could be organized in groups, e.g. 1) paintings, several periods of time 2) sculptures 3) instruments in museums (different types a.s.o.) The information could also be added by everyone. I think th
[LUTE] Re: dissertations on lute topics
Hello, Nancy! Ralf properly sent you to Doctoral Dissertations in Musicology at Indiana University. It is an attempt to make a comprehsnive listing of completed dissertations, and those in progress. The coverage is international, and I have tried to assist my former student, Tom Mathiesen the administrator, in seeing that the listing for lute is as complete as possible. If you know of any dissertations on lute (or related instruments) that are not listed, you should urge the authors to register their works. It only takes a few minutes (seconds?). I've added quite a few from the early 20th century and late 19th, which were written prior to the establishment of DDM around 1950. Also a new resource is available from ProQuest (formerly University Microfilms International). If your institution or library subscribes to Dissertation Abstracts (a division of ProQuest), it is possible to read COMPLETE UMI/ProQuest dissertations on-line and download individual pages or the entire dissertation FOR FREE! If not a subscriber, you can always order the dissertation in paper or hard cover (See Dissertation Express). The ProQuest listings are not as complete as DDM, because in the past not all universities required their dissertation to be made available from UMI. That was especially the case with some Ivy League universities when UMI started up (H?). By now almost all US universities, and many foreign ones as well, require that their dissertations be made available through UMI/ProQuest . ProQuest has offices all over the globe, so you can order locally. One day ALL KNOWLEDGE will be on the Internet. There was a proposal announced just yesterday for such a database, with world-wide coverage! UNESCO and the Library of Congress are involved, so that is an indication of the seriousness of the project. One which surely will take centuries to complete. Their goal is "TO PRESERVE AND MAKE ACCESSIBLE THE MEMORY OF THE WORLD" Awesome. (Actually it's a bit frightening.) Well . . . See this announcement: http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=40277&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=201.html AJN. - Original Message - From: "Nancy Carlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 1:10 AM Subject: [LUTE] dissertations on lute topics Does anyone know if there is a list anywhere of PHD Disseratations on lute topics, especially the ones that have come out more recently. The older ones find their way into books and articles as footnotes but I am interested in what newer ones are out there. Nancy Carlin Nancy Carlin Associates P.O. Box 6499 Concord, CA 94524 USA phone 925/686-5800 fax 925/680-2582 web site - www.nancycarlinassociates.com Administrator THE LUTE SOCIETY OF AMERICA web site - http://LuteSocietyofAmerica.org -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings /Re: marker at 7th fret
I hope you may be right for the loaded strings. Perhaps they are on their way, and you read the signs better than I do. Undoubtedly, Mimmo will be demonstrating something this month at the Greenwich early music festival. I suppose you may see his lute strung with loaded strings, perhaps he has gone further and is ready to sell you a complete set. I rather hope so/ As to the marks on the 5th and 7th fret, I noticed that a French lute player who has over 30 lutes, has a little marketry circle set into the lute neck near the 5th and 7th frets. The various lutemakers who made these lutes, obviously accepted making this alteration to their lutes. I imagine that the more varied the lutes you play the more reason you might have to introdcuing this sort of aid. Anthony Le 4 nov. 07 à 21:25, Daniel Winheld a écrit : Uh-oh boys 'n girls- we're mixing our threads here. I've never felt strongly about the marker marks except that they've always bothered me aesthetically- but on rare occasions helped me out when playing strictly from memory; which (classical) guitarists have always done far more than any of us lute critters. (How do you get the guitarist to shut up? -Give him sheet music) I still want answers about the new, improved loaded basses that are UNDOUBTEDLY coming our way any minute now... .. And isn't it interesting that by the mid 17th century, seventy some years after the Great String Improvement the French lutenists had dropped the 1st course down to "f", singled out the 2nd, and re-established 8ves at the 6th. Of course Dowland could have been voicing a musically elite and minority opinion in regard to the unison 6th. Not sure what the norm was for 8ves in Italy- but still set up for mostly doubled firsts on liuti attorbiati, no? Dan For what it's worth... Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... Alan - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying to sell their wares." Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches involved. I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 on her Baroque lute. Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded guts on us- please! Dan P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string material or on any instrument? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 01/11/2007 06:01 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -- Rachel Winheld 820 Colusa Avenue Berkeley, CA 94707 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel 510.526.0242 Cell 510.915.4276
[LUTE] Re: fret stringing, was: historical lute stringings
Good point, Mathias. However, gut frets sound better. ed At 09:36 PM 11/4/2007 +, Mathias Rösel wrote: Paul O'Dette said in that YouTube video, the reason for movable gut frets was that they can be shifted, in case mean tone temperament is required. If that proves to be the only reason, I shall seriously think about putting metal frets on my lute, the baroque lute in particular which has no meantone fret shifting. -- Mathias Edward Martin 2817 East 2nd Street Duluth, Minnesota 55812 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] voice: (218) 728-1202 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: )Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal]
Thanks for pointing this out, Art. As you know, I happen to live in Duluth (Minnesota, not Georgia), as does Dan Larson. As I am a lutenist who does happen to have recordings, it bothers me when my recordings are copied without consent. But, in this particular case, it was tried in federal court in Duluth, and if I recall, the defendant resides in Brainerd, which is about 100 miles from Duluth. The verdict happened about 3 weeks ago. The young lady who was found guilty is a single mother with 2 young children, and she earns $30,000 annually. She will never be in a position to pay off this hefty fine. If my understanding is correct, she shared popular song downloads, ripping off the record companies. I really feel sorry for her, as although she is guilty, in my opinion, the punishment exceeds by far the nature of her crime. In our times, it seems to me that individual people who are plaintiffs in civil cases quite often have their cases thrown out of court, even when they have a legitimate case. On the other hand, if the plaintiff(s) are large corporations, the courts seem to "beat up" the little guys (gals). Money talks. ed At 04:25 PM 11/4/2007 -0500, Arthur Ness wrote: >They've been cracking down laterly. And I think we can >expect more as the industry flexes its muscles. One >woman from Duluth was fined $220,000 for copyright infringement, >just a few days ago (she could have been fined three >million dollars, according to news reports). > >http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071004233021.itudt24b&show_arhttp://www.breitbart.com > >Here's the unfortunate results of Universal Editions >cease and desist threat. It's possible there will be NO >IMSLP in the future. The NEC student has apparently >given up in frustration. > > From MLA-List >>As I am sure a number of you on this list know >>already, IMSLP (www.imslp.org) is now the largest site >>of downloadable public domain scores available on the >>internet, with more than 15,000 scores, 9000 titles >>and 1000 composers. >> >>Unfortunately, the project has grown so large that the >>site's owner (a music student at New England >>Conservatory) can no longer afford the great amount of >>time and expense required to run this site. We are >>therefore looking for universty sponsors - preferably >>a music library - to host both the Canadian and United >>States versions of the site, with possible alternative >>mirrors located in the EU and Asia. >> >>This has been partially precipitated by a recent >>threat of litigation on the part of Universal Edition >>of Vienna Austria, who apparently wishes to enforce EU >>copyright laws in Canada and the USA. Please direct >>any inquiries to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>The site will be taken down for the next >>several days for maintenence and to remove certain >>titles in order to comply with demands in the Cease >>and Desist letter from UE's lawyers until volunteer >>attorneys at the Canadian Internet Policy and Public >>Interest Clinic of the University of Ottawa Law School >>can prepare an adequate response to the legal >>intimidation tactics employed by UE. > >==AJN >Boston, Mass. >This week's free download: >Lalo Symphonie espagnole >Go to my web page: >http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ >For some free scores, go to: >http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ >- Original Message - From: "Caroline Usher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "lutenet" >Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 3:23 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute iconographic project - a >proposal] > > >>There is a long-standing effort to do for musical >>iconography what RILM >>and RIMM do for musicology and music manuscripts, >>respectively: >>http://web.gc.cuny.edu/rcmi/index.htm >> >>They don't seem to be very web-oriented. Possibly >>they are concerned >>about copyright issues in putting their images online >>(a 400-year-old >>work of art is in the public domain, but the museum >>slide or >>reproduction in a published volume is not.) >> >>They tried to develop a cataloguing system for images >>of musical >>instruments. Unfortunately they kept revising the >>rules as they went >>along and discovered that the [1-page] [10-page] >>[25-page] rule sets >>were inadequate. I had some correspondence with them >>a couple of >>decades ago, which broke down because they wanted a >>set of clearly >>distinguished types of lute. each with its own >>distinct name. I kept >>trying to explain that the lute family was not >>standardized and that you >>would need to specify, insofar as possible, the number >>of strings, >>number of nuts/pegboxes, etc. They would write back >>and say, "Yes, but >>we need /one name/ for each type." They didn't get >>that the lute is >>polymorphously perverse. >> >>I also wrote my master's thesis for the School of >>Information and >>Library Science at UNC on the history of their >>cataloguing rules. Short >>summary: They shoulda asked a librarian. >>Caroline >> >> Original Message ---
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings /Re: marker at 7th fret
Howdy, Dan! I do use markers, as I play many different sized instruments. I recall working with a lutenist about 8 years, ago, practicing duets. This particular lutenist plays many different kinds of lutes, and in one piece, he was not hitting the right note up on the 8th or 9th fret. I suggested a marker on the 7th, & he initially resisted, but then decided to consent in trying it. After using a drop of "white out" on the 7th fret, he played the correct note every time. He was a convert at that time. Paul O'Dette also uses markers, and for good reason - it makes him a more accurate player. If one had only 1 instrument, then it would be less of a need to mark the 7th fret. However, with many different styles and length lutes, it really is helpful to use a marker, in my opinion. I am curious to see, hear, or play the newly loaded strings; however, I am satisfied with copper or solver gimped, as they are true & accurate. Dan Larson stopped loading strings years ago, for the same reasons that Mimmo did. It was too time consuming & expensive. Many strings would break, many were false. It was also too time consuming for him to be replacing false loaded strings. So, he stopped production, and went with a gut bass that sounds great & the quality control is vastly improved - the gimped string. ed At 12:25 PM 11/4/2007 -0800, Daniel Winheld wrote: >Uh-oh boys 'n girls- we're mixing our threads here. I've never felt >strongly about the marker marks except that they've always bothered >me aesthetically- but on rare occasions helped me out when playing >strictly from memory; which (classical) guitarists have always done >far more than any of us lute critters. (How do you get the guitarist >to shut up? -Give him sheet music) > >I still want answers about the new, improved loaded basses that are >UNDOUBTEDLY coming our way any minute now... > >.. And isn't it interesting that by the mid 17th century, seventy >some years after the Great String Improvement the French lutenists >had dropped the 1st course down to "f", singled out the 2nd, and >re-established 8ves at the 6th. Of course Dowland could have been >voicing a musically elite and minority opinion in regard to the >unison 6th. > >Not sure what the norm was for 8ves in Italy- but still set up for >mostly doubled firsts on liuti attorbiati, no? > >Dan > > >For what it's worth... > > > >Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes > >off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of > >our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I > >might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... > > > >Alan > >- Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: > >Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM > >Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings > > > >> > "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want > >>>to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a > >>>difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they > >>>communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying > >>>to sell their wares." > >> > >>Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated > >>commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest > >>conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the > >>hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of > >>us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the > >>other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They > >>were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches > >>involved. > >> > >>I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for > >>the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've > >>encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At > >>the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a > >>very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 > >>on her Baroque lute. > >> > >>Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded > >>guts on us- please! Dan > >> > >>P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing > >>cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string > >>material or on any instrument? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>-- > >> > >> > >> > >>To get on or off this list see list information at > >>http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >> > >> > >>-- > >>No virus found in this incoming message. > >>Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >>Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: > >>01/11/2007 06:01 > >> > > > > > >-- > >I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. > >It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. > >Paying users do not have this message in their emails. > >Get the free SPAMfighte
[LUTE] Re: fret stringing, was: historical lute stringings
The other issue is tuning. Even with equal temperment, there will be times when the 1st course needs a slightly different fret position than the lower courses for all to be in tune. I believe it's related to the fingerboard curvature and to the different thicknesses of the strings. I often end up with my 13 course having some of the frets on a slight diagonal. DS On Nov 4, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote: "Narada" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: I'd also like the lists opinion on fixed metal frets, I had a rather heated discussion with a classical guitarist recently who was very critical of what he called the 'plastic frets' that we lutenists use. Every now and then when courses go buzzing on the 2nd and 3rd frets, signalling that they have become too low and must be replaced, I'm pondering on advantages of metal frets. Paul O'Dette said in that YouTube video, the reason for movable gut frets was that they can be shifted, in case mean tone temperament is required. If that proves to be the only reason, I shall seriously think about putting metal frets on my lute, the baroque lute in particular which has no meantone fret shifting. -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: fret stringing, was: historical lute stringings
And besides- metal frets will quickly chew up your precious gut strings. Not very economical... RT - Original Message - From: "Daniel Shoskes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mathias Rösel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "'Lute List'" Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 5:35 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: fret stringing, was: historical lute stringings The other issue is tuning. Even with equal temperment, there will be times when the 1st course needs a slightly different fret position than the lower courses for all to be in tune. I believe it's related to the fingerboard curvature and to the different thicknesses of the strings. I often end up with my 13 course having some of the frets on a slight diagonal. DS On Nov 4, 2007, at 4:36 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote: "Narada" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb: I'd also like the lists opinion on fixed metal frets, I had a rather heated discussion with a classical guitarist recently who was very critical of what he called the 'plastic frets' that we lutenists use. Every now and then when courses go buzzing on the 2nd and 3rd frets, signalling that they have become too low and must be replaced, I'm pondering on advantages of metal frets. Paul O'Dette said in that YouTube video, the reason for movable gut frets was that they can be shifted, in case mean tone temperament is required. If that proves to be the only reason, I shall seriously think about putting metal frets on my lute, the baroque lute in particular which has no meantone fret shifting. -- Mathias To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings /Re: marker at 7th fret
Top of the afternoon to you too, Ed- Not against markers, just don't like the appearance. On my 72 cm. 8 course, (that's a LONG highway for these old fingers) Barber put a very discreet little white dot at the seventh, on the neck near the neck/fingerboard junction, worked very well anytime I was stupid enough to look down at unspeakable activities happening on the fingerboard. I thought metal frets were avoided because they would eat up gut strings? -Dan >Howdy, Dan! > >I do use markers, as I play many different sized instruments. I >recall working with a lutenist about 8 years, ago, practicing duets. >This particular lutenist plays many different kinds of lutes, and in >one piece, he was not hitting the right note up on the 8th or 9th >fret. I suggested a marker on the 7th, & he initially resisted, but >then decided to consent in trying it. After using a drop of "white >out" on the 7th fret, he played the correct note every time. He was >a convert at that time. > >Paul O'Dette also uses markers, and for good reason - it makes him a >more accurate player. If one had only 1 instrument, then it would >be less of a need to mark the 7th fret. However, with many >different styles and length lutes, it really is helpful to use a >marker, in my opinion. > >I am curious to see, hear, or play the newly loaded strings; >however, I am satisfied with copper or solver gimped, as they are >true & accurate. > >Dan Larson stopped loading strings years ago, for the same reasons >that Mimmo did. It was too time consuming & expensive. Many >strings would break, many were false. It was also too time >consuming for him to be replacing false loaded strings. So, he >stopped production, and went with a gut bass that sounds great & the >quality control is vastly improved - the gimped string. > >ed -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings
You cannot argue with a Guitar player about fixed metal frets, especially if their only exposure to the Lute is at a distance. They have to have first hand experience with gut frets and the fineness of the sound before they start to grasp the significance of them. Don't even try discussing different temperament, that's like having that discussion with a piano player. - Original Message - From: "Narada" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Alan Hoyle'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "'Lute List'" Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings A tiny dot on the 3rd, 5th and 7th for me, only because as a geeetarist I like the reference it gives me, so I've carried it over to the lute. I'd also like the lists opinion on fixed metal frets, I had a rather heated discussion with a classical guitarist recently who was very critical of what he called the 'plastic frets' that we lutenists use. -Original Message- From: Alan Hoyle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 November 2007 19:43 To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Daniel Winheld Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings For what it's worth... Perhaps the difference is that we lutenists daren't take our eyes off the tablature, and so we have to find our way about the neck of our instrument by touch, not sight. Having said that, I think I might just stick something close tothe 7th fret... Alan - Original Message - From: "Daniel Winheld" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 6:15 PM Subject: [LUTE] Re: historical lute stringings > "I think Mimmo Peruffo may not reply because he may not want to appear to be advertising his wares on this list. It is a difficult situation for string makers and lute makers whenever they communicate, it could be considered that indirectly they are trying to sell their wares." Couple of thoughts- I'm sure that Mimmo, our most advanced, dedicated commercial stringmaker, wouldn't merely be sharing his latest conclusions and historical/scientific research results just for the hell of it- something's got to be up; and he knows how badly some of us want the next inevitable step to fall (waiting patiently for the other shoe to drop?) in regard to the loaded gut bass strings. They were so close! -But as pointed out, too many problems and headaches involved. I still have a pair of perfectly matched, in tune, loaded guts for the only satisfactory unison pairing of this string type I've encountered for the 6th course of my 7 course Andreas Holst lute. At the 2005 LSA event in Cleveland Cathy Liddell was still wearing a very carefully maintained set of loaded gut bass fundamentals 6 - 11 on her Baroque lute. Come on, Mimmo! You've got our attention, big time- unload the loaded guts on us- please! Dan P.S.- How many of us have had success- long term, that is, playing cleanly and maintaining in tune the doubled first course, any string material or on any instrument? -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.17/1103 - Release Date: 01/11/2007 06:01 -- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 1056 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.21/1109 - Release Date: 11/4/2007 11:05 AM
[LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo
Dear Arthur: I'm glad to know that I got your attention. Yes, i was mainly describing the fantasia from Bottegari + Chilesotti's ms. This misattribution was by Chiesa, who seemed to feel strongly that it was Francesco's. I don't. There are several other pieces that it seems were deliberately misattributed by 16th century publishers, probably for the sales/recognition factor. The most obvious is N. (that's you) 11. The rest of my examples are merely a matter of a player's opinion, and include everything attributed to Francesco di Parigi, everything from Vincenzo Galileo Fiorentino (Rome, 1563), and nearly everything from the Siena ms. My opinion. Best, Ron Andrico http://www.mignarda.com > Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2007 16:01:46 -0500> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: > lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Poulton > #73 [was] dedillo> > I am unaware of any unascribed works that have been> > assigned to Francesco, except for that ricercar by> "Incerto" in the > Chilesotti Codice Lauten-Buch (and> several other places, incl. Bottegari--do > you attribute> it to Francesco in your Bottegari edition?).> > Could you > provide us with some examples of what you are> referring to?> > ==AJN> > Boston, Mass.> This week's free download from> Classical Music Library:> Lalo > "Symphonie espagnole"> Go to my web page:> > http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/> For some free scores, go to:> > http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/> - Original > Message - > From: "Ron Andrico" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> To: "Are Vidar Boye > Hansen"> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "G.R. Crona"> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Cc: > > Sent: Sunday, November ! 04, 2007 5:38 AM> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Poulton #73 [was] dedillo> > > >> > Dear Are:> > Diana Poulton attributed the piece (with reservation)> > to Dowland based on the fact that it contains several> > of Dowland's typical devices; the ascending scale> > passages with a repeated first note, and several> > tonic/dominant repetitions with inversions. The piece> > also appears in the manuscript (D9) following another> > fantasia more securely attributed to Dowland (Poulton> > #6). I have to agree with you that Poulton #73> > doesn't necessarily sound like Dowland, and the fact> > that the piece really needs reconstruction does not> > help the matter. There seems to be a tendency to> > attribute unascribed music to known composers simply> > because a given piece is good. This is certainly the> > case with many pieces attributed to Francesco da> > Milano.> >> > Best wishes,> >> > Ron Andrico> > http://www.mignarda.com> >> >> >> Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2007 23:28:35 +0100> To:> >> kaleid! [EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> From:> >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] matnat.u io.no> Subject: [LUTE] Re:> >> Poulton #73 [was] dedillo> > > Does any of you know why this piece is attributed to> > > Dowland? It is a > great piece, but to me it doesn't> > > sound like a Dowland piece...> > > Are> > _> > Boo!!Scare away worms, viruses and so much more! Try> > Windows Live OneCare!> > http://onecare.live.com/standard/en-us/purchase/trial.aspx?s_cid=wl_hotmailnews> > --> >> > To get on or off this list see list information at> > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html> >> > > _ Climb to the top of the charts!! Play Star Shuffle:! the word scramble challenge with star power. http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_oct --
[LUTE] Re: )Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal]
>From what I've read (on boingboing.net, among others), the record companies would have settled with her for much less. She refused, and insisted on going to court, so they went for the jugular and largely succeeded. I suspect that they were trying to make an example of her to discourage others from contesting the issue in court. I think there is some effort to raise funds to help her cover the judgment, but I don't know how successful it has been. There's probably more in the boingboing.net archives if you are interested. (FYI, Boingboing.net is Cory Doctorow's rather quirky blog, and DRM is one of his hobbyhorses, along with unicorns, knitted versions of internal organs, and a host of others:-) Guy -Original Message- From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 2:10 PM To: Arthur Ness; Caroline Usher; lutenet Subject: [LUTE] Re: )Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal] Thanks for pointing this out, Art. As you know, I happen to live in Duluth (Minnesota, not Georgia), as does Dan Larson. As I am a lutenist who does happen to have recordings, it bothers me when my recordings are copied without consent. But, in this particular case, it was tried in federal court in Duluth, and if I recall, the defendant resides in Brainerd, which is about 100 miles from Duluth. The verdict happened about 3 weeks ago. The young lady who was found guilty is a single mother with 2 young children, and she earns $30,000 annually. She will never be in a position to pay off this hefty fine. If my understanding is correct, she shared popular song downloads, ripping off the record companies. I really feel sorry for her, as although she is guilty, in my opinion, the punishment exceeds by far the nature of her crime. In our times, it seems to me that individual people who are plaintiffs in civil cases quite often have their cases thrown out of court, even when they have a legitimate case. On the other hand, if the plaintiff(s) are large corporations, the courts seem to "beat up" the little guys (gals). Money talks. ed At 04:25 PM 11/4/2007 -0500, Arthur Ness wrote: >They've been cracking down laterly. And I think we can >expect more as the industry flexes its muscles. One >woman from Duluth was fined $220,000 for copyright infringement, >just a few days ago (she could have been fined three >million dollars, according to news reports). > >http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071004233021.itudt24b&show_ar http://www.breitbart.com > >Here's the unfortunate results of Universal Editions >cease and desist threat. It's possible there will be NO >IMSLP in the future. The NEC student has apparently >given up in frustration. > > From MLA-List >>As I am sure a number of you on this list know >>already, IMSLP (www.imslp.org) is now the largest site >>of downloadable public domain scores available on the >>internet, with more than 15,000 scores, 9000 titles >>and 1000 composers. >> >>Unfortunately, the project has grown so large that the >>site's owner (a music student at New England >>Conservatory) can no longer afford the great amount of >>time and expense required to run this site. We are >>therefore looking for universty sponsors - preferably >>a music library - to host both the Canadian and United >>States versions of the site, with possible alternative >>mirrors located in the EU and Asia. >> >>This has been partially precipitated by a recent >>threat of litigation on the part of Universal Edition >>of Vienna Austria, who apparently wishes to enforce EU >>copyright laws in Canada and the USA. Please direct >>any inquiries to [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>The site will be taken down for the next >>several days for maintenence and to remove certain >>titles in order to comply with demands in the Cease >>and Desist letter from UE's lawyers until volunteer >>attorneys at the Canadian Internet Policy and Public >>Interest Clinic of the University of Ottawa Law School >>can prepare an adequate response to the legal >>intimidation tactics employed by UE. > >==AJN >Boston, Mass. >This week's free download: >Lalo Symphonie espagnole >Go to my web page: >http://mysite.verizon.net/arthurjness/ >For some free scores, go to: >http://mysite.verizon.net/vzepq31c/arthurjnesslutescores/ >- Original Message - From: "Caroline Usher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "lutenet" >Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 3:23 PM >Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute iconographic project - a >proposal] > > >>There is a long-standing effort to do for musical >>iconography what RILM >>and RIMM do for musicology and music manuscripts, >>respectively: >>http://web.gc.cuny.edu/rcmi/index.htm >> >>They don't seem to be very web-oriented. Possibly >>they are concerned >>about copyright issues in putting their images online >>(a 400-year-old >>work of art is in the public domain, but the museum >>slide or >>reproduction in a published volume is not.) >> >>They tried to develop a cataloguing system for images >>of m
[LUTE] Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal]
On Nov 4, 2007, at 2:10 PM, Edward Martin wrote: > The young lady who was found guilty is a > single mother with 2 young children, and she earns $30,000 > annually. She > will never be in a position to pay off this hefty fine. If my > understanding is correct, she shared popular song downloads, > ripping off > the record companies. > > I really feel sorry for her, as although she is guilty, in my > opinion, the > punishment exceeds by far the nature of her crime. There does seem to be widespread misunderstanding of what happened here, judging from web accounts. There was no "crime," no conviction, no "fine," and no "guilt." She was found liable in a civil case for $220,000 in damages, of which she may pay little or nothing, unless she owns a house or some other large asset that the plaintiff RIAA can get its hands on easily. While a fine, which is payable to the court, is an alternative to imprisonment and thus can result in the convict's being imprisoned if it isn't paid, a plaintiff awarded civil damages is left to its own devices to collect them, within the confines of state (and federal bankruptcy) laws that protect the debtor to some degree. The outstanding judgment will ruin her credit, of course. The RIAA chose this defendant out of all the potential ones it could have sued because the case was a particularly easy case to prove. The RIAA probably doesn't care if it collects a dime, and may never try, because the last thing it wants is a gaggle of news stories about how its efforts to collect have yielded little (a la the stories about the Goldmans going after their judgment against O.J. Simpson), because it would send the wrong message to all the 20-year- old pirates the RIAA wants to terrify. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] New Archlute
Well, I've finally joined the realm of the giraffe wranglers. Behold my new Archlute, courtesy of Andrew Rutherford: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3fyUoKSGVQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qY6IUx0phQ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal]
Sadly the excellent International Music Score Library Project, which was rapidly building up an online resource of many thousands of out-of-copyright (or so they thought) socres, has recently been nuked by the publishers. Read the sorry story at http://imslp.org/wiki/Main_Page P On 02/11/2007, Arne Keller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > - Original Message - > From: "Caroline Usher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "lutenet" > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:23 PM > Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute iconographic project - a proposal] > > > > There is a long-standing effort to do for musical iconography what RILM > > and RIMM do for musicology and music manuscripts, respectively: > > http://web.gc.cuny.edu/rcmi/index.htm > > > > They don't seem to be very web-oriented. Possibly they are concerned > > about copyright issues in putting their images online (a 400-year-old > > work of art is in the public domain, but the museum slide or > > reproduction in a published volume is not.) > > This is indeed a problem. An irritating one, in that it stops a lot of > relevant, possibly creative, interaction of cultural initiatives. > > But maybe the iconography site could - initially, anyway - be based on > pics that are already on the Net? That is, merely a treasure-trove of > URLs. > That wouldn't step on anyone's toes, surely? > > Anyway, why are we all so afraid of the "copyright"-bogeyman? > I mean, the Feds haven't nuked YouTube yet, have they? > > > Just wondering, > > Arne. > > > > > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- Peter Martin Belle Serre La Caulie 81100 Castres France tel: 0033 5 63 35 68 46 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.silvius.co.uk http://absolute81.blogspot.com/ www.myspace.com/sambuca999 www.myspace.com/chuckerbutty --
