[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[guy_and_liz Smith]

Not necessarily. In some countries, solicitors actually practice the law:-)

Guy


- Original Message - 
From: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu; Edward Martin 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 11:16 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Isn't soliciting against the law?

 Gary

 - Original Message - 
 From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:35 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


  Yes, it had a paradoxical effect on me, as I wanted to hang out in this
  area.  Please do not worry, as I did no panhandling, nor did I discuss
  thumb placement.  But, I did solicit the nail/no nail debate.
 
  ed
 
 
 
  At 01:47 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
  Dear Ed;
  
Did hearing H. Smith's Kaspsberger cause you to loiter in the 
   area.
  Maybe the City should rethink this. I'm not sure they really want gangs
 of
  unruly lutenists hanging out downtown, panhandling for money to buy
 strings,
  harassing passersby with their thumb in, thumb out rap. Word up.
  
  Gary
  
  - Original Message -
  From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:35 PM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
  
  
I reside in a small City of just under 100,000 people in population.
 In
the downtown area, there has become a notorious area for teenage
loitering.  The city tried to disperse them, using many means, such 
as
using the police to patrol  mingle.  This did not work.  So, what
 _was_
effective was to have recorded Classical music, such as Mozart.  The
loitering stopped;  none of them wanted to hear beautiful music. 
Once
 day
as I walked by, I actually heard broadcasting in that area Hopkinson
Smith's Kapsberger recording!
   
ed
   
   
   
At 04:36 PM 1/6/2006 -0600, Stuart LeBlanc wrote:
   
Actually there a contraposition Mozart effect, involving the
 dispersal
  of
loitering teenagers, criminals, etc:
   
   
   
Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202
   
   
   
   
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   
   
   
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date:
 1/3/2006
   
   
 
 
 
  Edward Martin
  2817 East 2nd Street
  Duluth, Minnesota  55812
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  voice:  (218) 728-1202
 
 
 
 
 
  -- 
  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.15/223 - Release Date: 
  1/6/2006
 
 


 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Jon Murphy]

Charles,

I have to add to this thread without reading the many messages in it - I'm a
bit behind in my reading having recently had a stroke myself. So pardon me
if I say things already said by others.

Music Therapy is bullshit, but music is therapeutic. As a harpist I've been
in some discussions of this. Several members of my harp ensemble are
official trained Music Therapists, and I have a CD I was given by a
harpist/composer for covering her booth at a harp festival. The CD has
specific tunes for the various stages of disease and dying. Bull, each of us
is different. The selections for the terminal, as defined by the academic
discipline of Music Therapy (I'm waiting for an academic discipline of the
best way to scratch a cat's ears) is soothing and saccharine. Personally I'd
prefer a rousing march from a brass quartet. I have no plan to go gentle
into that good night, I'm going kicking and screaming.

I had a message a while back on the harp list from a young lady who was
going into an academic experiment as to the best harp music for patients in
the ICU. Having been in ICUs about six times in the last seven years I
pointed out that the best thing for a harpist to do would be to stay out of
the way of the ICU nurse, and to not trip over the IVs, and to not worry
about the music. Dogs and cats are known to be very therapeutic for
patients, but the ICU ain't the place for them.

The harpists claim scientific evidence that the special features of the harp
are especially therapeutic. I can't argue with that, the harp is unique in a
way. Someone mentioned a violinist friend who is doing Music Therapy for
wounded soldiers. Dare I say that the violinist isn't doing Music Therapy
(he mentions that they like their requests). He is making music for the
troops (as contrasted to performing a fixed plan). That is a good thing, but
it isn't Music Therapy. Music Therapy is a trained occupation with rules as
to the play depending on the condition of the patient (at least as far as I
can gather from the Music Therapists I know). I was asked by the young lady
on the ICU study what I'd do. I'd noodle the harp a bit. Make some note
sequences in differing modes and speed, no particular tune. Watch the
patient's reaction (which might be quite subtle in the case of the
semicomatose), then follow up on the sounds that seem to work.

That latter is probably why the harp is said to be suited to therapy, it has
a nice resonance when picked as single notes, and it can fully chord them.
The lute could be a therapeutic instrument, but that would need patients who
like renaissance or baroque music (or other fixed pieces).

The lute, and any other instrument (I'd love to hear Bach trumpets in my
hospital room, but my roommate and the people in the next corridor might
not), are  of help to some in hospital. When one is in extremis it
is not always clear what will help. And there is certainly no one size fits
all for each condition, as is implied by Music Therapy. Play it, if they
like it play it again. If not, try something else.

I don't claim to speak for all patients, but at my age I've had more
experience in hospitals lately than I'd prefer. Music, dogs and cats, and
anything comforting is a help. But there is no specific that applies to all.
when my mother was going out, fifteen years ago at 88 (and semicomatose) I
played her recordings of her favorite Gilbert and Sullivan operettas. Each
patient is different.

Best, Jon



- Original Message - 
From: Charles Browne [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 3:29 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Music Therapy


 A Happy New Year to all!
 There was an article in one of the UK national newspapers recently about
 Harpists being 'employed' in operating theatres and in Chemotherapy Units
to
 help reduce tension and anxiety in patients. I followed this up by looking
at
 various links to formal Music Therapy and I gather that the Harp, among
other
 instruments, is often used because of its particular properties. I
wondered
 whether the lute would be similarly useful. Has anybody on the list
experience
 of this?
 best wishes
 Charles




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[gary digman]

Dear Ed;

 Did hearing H. Smith's Kaspsberger cause you to loiter in the area.
Maybe the City should rethink this. I'm not sure they really want gangs of
unruly lutenists hanging out downtown, panhandling for money to buy strings,
harassing passersby with their thumb in, thumb out rap. Word up.

Gary

- Original Message - 
From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 I reside in a small City of just under 100,000 people in population.  In
 the downtown area, there has become a notorious area for teenage
 loitering.  The city tried to disperse them, using many means, such as
 using the police to patrol  mingle.  This did not work.  So, what _was_
 effective was to have recorded Classical music, such as Mozart.  The
 loitering stopped;  none of them wanted to hear beautiful music.  Once day
 as I walked by, I actually heard broadcasting in that area Hopkinson
 Smith's Kapsberger recording!

 ed



 At 04:36 PM 1/6/2006 -0600, Stuart LeBlanc wrote:

 Actually there a contraposition Mozart effect, involving the dispersal
of
 loitering teenagers, criminals, etc:



 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 voice:  (218) 728-1202




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



 -- 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date: 1/3/2006

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[gary digman]

Dear Ed;

 All this talk about the effect of music on plants. What I'm really
interested in is the effect of plants on music. When  the original American
drug tsar Harry Anslinger died, his personal physician, one Dr. Munch (you
can't make this stuff up), was asked in an interview why Mr. Anslinger hated
jazz musicians so much. Dr Munch replied that Mr. Anslinger felt that jazz
musicians were given to imbibing cannabis and cannabis slowed down the
musicians sense of time allowing them to insert all these extra notes in
between the written notes, and he, Mr Anslinger, felt that they should stick
to the written notes. How's that for an urban myth?

Gary
- Original Message - 
From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:56 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 The effects of music on plants.   H.  this is another fascinating
myth.

 I saw a TV show this past autumn, called the Mythbusters.  Thus us a
 funny show, where a hypothesis in the form of a myth is either confirmed
or
 busted.  In this episode, they set up identical greenhouses, in which  one
 had voices arguing loudly telling the plants they 'sucked', one had
Mozart,
 one had pleasant voices telling the plants they were beautiful, and one
 with loud, trashy, bashing and booming heavy metal rock.

 Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
 obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.

 ed



 At 01:31 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:

 - Original Message -
 From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
 
 
   and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
   has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom even
 when
   they are not supposed to.
  
   Donatella
 
 
 Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
 course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an
environment
 identical in every way except for the absence of music, and see how they
 fare.
 
 All the Best, Donatella,
 Gary
 
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 voice:  (218) 728-1202





 -- 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date: 1/3/2006

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Edward Martin]

Yes, it had a paradoxical effect on me, as I wanted to hang out in this 
area.  Please do not worry, as I did no panhandling, nor did I discuss 
thumb placement.  But, I did solicit the nail/no nail debate.

ed



At 01:47 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
Dear Ed;

  Did hearing H. Smith's Kaspsberger cause you to loiter in the area.
Maybe the City should rethink this. I'm not sure they really want gangs of
unruly lutenists hanging out downtown, panhandling for money to buy strings,
harassing passersby with their thumb in, thumb out rap. Word up.

Gary

- Original Message -
From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:35 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


  I reside in a small City of just under 100,000 people in population.  In
  the downtown area, there has become a notorious area for teenage
  loitering.  The city tried to disperse them, using many means, such as
  using the police to patrol  mingle.  This did not work.  So, what _was_
  effective was to have recorded Classical music, such as Mozart.  The
  loitering stopped;  none of them wanted to hear beautiful music.  Once day
  as I walked by, I actually heard broadcasting in that area Hopkinson
  Smith's Kapsberger recording!
 
  ed
 
 
 
  At 04:36 PM 1/6/2006 -0600, Stuart LeBlanc wrote:
 
  Actually there a contraposition Mozart effect, involving the dispersal
of
  loitering teenagers, criminals, etc:
 
 
 
  Edward Martin
  2817 East 2nd Street
  Duluth, Minnesota  55812
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  voice:  (218) 728-1202
 
 
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 
  --
  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date: 1/3/2006
 
 



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Edward Martin]

A wonderful story.

ed

At 02:21 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
Dear Ed;

  All this talk about the effect of music on plants. What I'm really
interested in is the effect of plants on music. When  the original American
drug tsar Harry Anslinger died, his personal physician, one Dr. Munch (you
can't make this stuff up), was asked in an interview why Mr. Anslinger hated
jazz musicians so much. Dr Munch replied that Mr. Anslinger felt that jazz
musicians were given to imbibing cannabis and cannabis slowed down the
musicians sense of time allowing them to insert all these extra notes in
between the written notes, and he, Mr Anslinger, felt that they should stick
to the written notes. How's that for an urban myth?

Gary
- Original Message -
From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:56 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


  The effects of music on plants.   H.  this is another fascinating
myth.
 
  I saw a TV show this past autumn, called the Mythbusters.  Thus us a
  funny show, where a hypothesis in the form of a myth is either confirmed
or
  busted.  In this episode, they set up identical greenhouses, in which  one
  had voices arguing loudly telling the plants they 'sucked', one had
Mozart,
  one had pleasant voices telling the plants they were beautiful, and one
  with loud, trashy, bashing and booming heavy metal rock.
 
  Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
  obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.
 
  ed
 
 
 
  At 01:31 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
  
  
and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom even
  when
they are not supposed to.
   
Donatella
  
  
  Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
  course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an
environment
  identical in every way except for the absence of music, and see how they
  fare.
  
  All the Best, Donatella,
  Gary
  
  
  
  
  
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 
 
  Edward Martin
  2817 East 2nd Street
  Duluth, Minnesota  55812
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  voice:  (218) 728-1202
 
 
 
 
 
  --
  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date: 1/3/2006
 
 



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Ed Durbrow]

I was actually hired to make a lute recording for a Japanese  
Suggestopedia teacher. That recording ended being the basis of my  
solo lute CD.

On Jan 6, 2006, at 6:10 PM, Donatella Galletti wrote:

  Lozanov, a professor, invented a method which is called
 suggestopedia and allows you to learn foreign languages ( as he was  
 working
 with them) in one tenth of the time.

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/



--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[gary digman]

Isn't soliciting against the law?

Gary

- Original Message - 
From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: gary digman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:35 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Yes, it had a paradoxical effect on me, as I wanted to hang out in this
 area.  Please do not worry, as I did no panhandling, nor did I discuss
 thumb placement.  But, I did solicit the nail/no nail debate.

 ed



 At 01:47 AM 1/7/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
 Dear Ed;
 
   Did hearing H. Smith's Kaspsberger cause you to loiter in the area.
 Maybe the City should rethink this. I'm not sure they really want gangs
of
 unruly lutenists hanging out downtown, panhandling for money to buy
strings,
 harassing passersby with their thumb in, thumb out rap. Word up.
 
 Gary
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:35 PM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
 
 
   I reside in a small City of just under 100,000 people in population.
In
   the downtown area, there has become a notorious area for teenage
   loitering.  The city tried to disperse them, using many means, such as
   using the police to patrol  mingle.  This did not work.  So, what
_was_
   effective was to have recorded Classical music, such as Mozart.  The
   loitering stopped;  none of them wanted to hear beautiful music.  Once
day
   as I walked by, I actually heard broadcasting in that area Hopkinson
   Smith's Kapsberger recording!
  
   ed
  
  
  
   At 04:36 PM 1/6/2006 -0600, Stuart LeBlanc wrote:
  
   Actually there a contraposition Mozart effect, involving the
dispersal
 of
   loitering teenagers, criminals, etc:
  
  
  
   Edward Martin
   2817 East 2nd Street
   Duluth, Minnesota  55812
   e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   voice:  (218) 728-1202
  
  
  
  
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  
  
  
   --
   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
   Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.12/220 - Release Date:
1/3/2006
  
  



 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 voice:  (218) 728-1202





 -- 
 No virus found in this incoming message.
 Checked by AVG Free Edition.
 Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.15/223 - Release Date: 1/6/2006

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Donatella Galletti]

As I was saying, the Alpha state is the state in the brains which one has 
before falling asleep, and is particularly proper to raise intellectual 
performance. Lozanov, a professor, invented a method which is called 
suggestopedia and allows you to learn foreign languages ( as he was working 
with them) in one tenth of the time.This has been demonstrated and in 
Switzerland they are making a lot of money using his method ( he did not get 
money out of it). One of the devices which are used is classical music, so 
the Mozart effect works. I think Mozart music would work or any Baroque 
music which is linear harmonically speaking. I made some experiments and it 
does work, and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing 
has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom even when 
they are not supposed to.

Donatella

http://web.tiscali.it/awebd



Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 12:16 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Thanks for the skeptical link.  Fascinating.  I have heard all these 
 claims
 that the music of Mozart has.

 I had an interesting experience with Mozart.  I had a gig in Maui (!!)
 about 7 years ago [ a fantastic journey], and I took a sailboat to view 
 the
 humpback whales.  The captain of the boat turned off his motor, as it is
 apparently not legal to bring a boat to within 100 meters of a whale. 
 But,
 if the whale is close, one can turn the motor off, and the whales could
 potentially swim up to the boat [the boat may not approach the whale].

 So, the captain turned off his motor, and he turned on symphonic music of
 Mozart, and the whales actually did swim up to the boat  went underneath
 (they were huge beasts).  The captain insisted that Mozart would lure the
 whales in, because they love Mozart  not other composers.  This is not
 proof to me, as they may have swum to us out of curiosity with another
 composer's music, or perhaps with no music at all.

 ed





 At 01:18 PM 1/5/2006 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
At 01:06 PM 1/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another potentially interesting use of music is reflected in 
research
from a music teacher in this country (UK) which purported to show
that playing Mozart to school pupils increased their capacity to
learn.
 
 The so called Mozart effect was a very attractive hypothesis, but after 
 10
 years of research, became clear that  unfortunately do not exist.


Even worse, the Mozart effect largely has become a sustained propaganda
effort for one man, Campbell, to pedal his brand of snake oil.  Here is a
superficial little summary:
http://skepdic.com/mozart.html

Eugene
 



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[gary digman]

- Original Message - 
From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
 has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom even
when
 they are not supposed to.

 Donatella


Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an environment
identical in every way except for the absence of music, and see how they
fare.

All the Best, Donatella,
Gary





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Edward Martin]

The effects of music on plants.   H.  this is another fascinating myth.

I saw a TV show this past autumn, called the Mythbusters.  Thus us a 
funny show, where a hypothesis in the form of a myth is either confirmed or 
busted.  In this episode, they set up identical greenhouses, in which  one 
had voices arguing loudly telling the plants they 'sucked', one had Mozart, 
one had pleasant voices telling the plants they were beautiful, and one 
with loud, trashy, bashing and booming heavy metal rock.

Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most 
obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.

ed



At 01:31 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:

- Original Message -
From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


  and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
  has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom even
when
  they are not supposed to.
 
  Donatella


Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an environment
identical in every way except for the absence of music, and see how they
fare.

All the Best, Donatella,
Gary





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Taco Walstra]

On Friday 06 January 2006 13:56, you wrote:
 The effects of music on plants.   H.  this is another fascinating myth.

 I saw a TV show this past autumn, called the Mythbusters.  Thus us a
 funny show, where a hypothesis in the form of a myth is either confirmed or
 busted.  In this episode, they set up identical greenhouses, in which  one
 had voices arguing loudly telling the plants they 'sucked', one had Mozart,
 one had pleasant voices telling the plants they were beautiful, and one
 with loud, trashy, bashing and booming heavy metal rock.

 Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
 obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.


Ergo Donatella should play from now on heavy metal on her lute and not this 
lousy baroque stuff and her plants will produce even more blooming flowers.
Taco



 ed

 At 01:31 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
 - Original Message -
 From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
 
   and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
   has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom even
 
 when
 
   they are not supposed to.
  
   Donatella
 
 Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
 course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an
  environment identical in every way except for the absence of music, and
  see how they fare.
 
 All the Best, Donatella,
 Gary
 
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[EUGENE BRAIG IV]

- Original Message -
From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Friday, January 6, 2006 4:10 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

 As I was saying, the Alpha state is the state in the brains which 
 one has 
 before falling asleep, and is particularly proper to raise 
 intellectual 
 performance. Lozanov, a professor, invented a method which is 
 called 
 suggestopedia and allows you to learn foreign languages ( as he 
 was working 
 with them) in one tenth of the time.This has been demonstrated and 
 in 
 Switzerland they are making a lot of money using his method ( he 
 did not get 
 money out of it). One of the devices which are used is classical 
 music, so 
 the Mozart effect works. I think Mozart music would work or any 
 Baroque 
 music which is linear harmonically speaking. I made some 
 experiments and it 
 does work, and I also suspect my listening to classical music and 
 playing 
 has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom 
 even when 
 they are not supposed to.


As nice a hypothesis as this is, Donatella, I still can't put much stock in 
anecdote.  I need formal, peer-reviewed experimentation.  If there is really an 
effect, it should be consistently, statistically, reproduceably demonstrated.  
It hasn't been, and where tested, it hasn't been reproduceable.  I love music 
and know it has a pleasant effect on my psyche.  I'll have to remain skeptical 
about any touchy-feely pseudo-scientific claims beyond that.

Best,
Eugene



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

Or Morton Feldman.
RT
From: Stuart LeBlanc [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Perhaps a useful experiment would be to abruptly switch to a Salieri 
 recording,
 after attracting them with Mozart.


 -Original Message-
 From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:16 PM
 To: Eugene C. Braig IV; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dongl
 Cc: lute
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Thanks for the skeptical link.  Fascinating.  I have heard all these 
 claims
 that the music of Mozart has.

 I had an interesting experience with Mozart.  I had a gig in Maui (!!)
 about 7 years ago [ a fantastic journey], and I took a sailboat to view 
 the
 humpback whales.  The captain of the boat turned off his motor, as it is
 apparently not legal to bring a boat to within 100 meters of a whale. 
 But,
 if the whale is close, one can turn the motor off, and the whales could
 potentially swim up to the boat [the boat may not approach the whale].

 So, the captain turned off his motor, and he turned on symphonic music of
 Mozart, and the whales actually did swim up to the boat  went underneath
 (they were huge beasts).  The captain insisted that Mozart would lure the
 whales in, because they love Mozart  not other composers.  This is not
 proof to me, as they may have swum to us out of curiosity with another
 composer's music, or perhaps with no music at all.

 ed





 At 01:18 PM 1/5/2006 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
At 01:06 PM 1/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another potentially interesting use of music is reflected in 
research
from a music teacher in this country (UK) which purported to show
that playing Mozart to school pupils increased their capacity to
learn.
 
 The so called Mozart effect was a very attractive hypothesis, but after 
 10
 years of research, became clear that  unfortunately do not exist.


Even worse, the Mozart effect largely has become a sustained propaganda
effort for one man, Campbell, to pedal his brand of snake oil.  Here is a
superficial little summary:
http://skepdic.com/mozart.html

Eugene




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 voice:  (218) 728-1202


 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

Stockhausen is known to shrink trees into shrubbery. I wonder if this were 
the method that Vance uses to produce bonsai.
RT
==
http://polyhymnion.org

Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes. 




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Donatella Galletti]

Well, I don't care much whether it has been demonstrated or not, it works 
for me and it's ok, and even if it did not work on my flowers, I would 
listen to music and play anyway.

About the experiment below, did they care to check whether the people who 
looked after the plants liked best rock or classical music, and if this 
could have affected the plants growth? I mean , if these people were in a 
different mood when watering the plants, this is an element which should 
have been taken into consideration. I also read about Findorn, in Scotland, 
were people seem to have grown huge plants using as fertilizer loving words. 
I repeat it as I read it.

I can tell an amusing experience I had with classical music and students: 
years ago I was teaching students who did not listen to anything different 
from hard rock, punk and the like, they were not very bright, neither were 
they able to concentrate,  and above all they  were very aggressive. I did 
something very daring: while they had to do a task, I had them listen to 
classical music ( Mozart). I expected some of them would have killed me 
after a few minutes or yelled to switch the tape recorder off, but 
unexpectedly for me, they became very calm and concentrated, and one of them 
who was the more addicted to rock and was not able to keep calm and sit down 
for more than 30'', prayed me to let the tape recorder play because he liked 
it. One of the students asked for permission to listen to rock music with 
his walkman, and after a few minutes I told him to stop. He asked why and 
the whole class laughed, telling him : Can't you see why? You can't 
concentrate and are moving on the chair every few seconds ( well, they did 
not use exactly these kind words..) . He looked around, realized everybody 
was strangely calm, and was very confused, he was not even able to answer 
and shut off the walkman. A real lesson for me, more than reading two 
hundred essays about the effect of music on people



Donatella


PS Happy New Year to everybody!


http://web.tiscali.it/awebd




- Original Message - 
From: Taco Walstra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist 
lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:07 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 On Friday 06 January 2006 13:56, you wrote:
 The effects of music on plants.   H.  this is another fascinating 
 myth.

 I saw a TV show this past autumn, called the Mythbusters.  Thus us a
 funny show, where a hypothesis in the form of a myth is either confirmed 
 or
 busted.  In this episode, they set up identical greenhouses, in which 
 one
 had voices arguing loudly telling the plants they 'sucked', one had 
 Mozart,
 one had pleasant voices telling the plants they were beautiful, and one
 with loud, trashy, bashing and booming heavy metal rock.

 Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
 obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.


 Ergo Donatella should play from now on heavy metal on her lute and not 
 this
 lousy baroque stuff and her plants will produce even more blooming 
 flowers.
 Taco



 ed

 At 01:31 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
 - Original Message -
 From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
 
   and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
   has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom 
   even
 
 when
 
   they are not supposed to.
  
   Donatella
 
 Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
 course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an
  environment identical in every way except for the absence of music, and
  see how they fare.
 
 All the Best, Donatella,
 Gary
 
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 voice:  (218) 728-1202


 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Donatella Galletti]

( I suppose this was for the list as well)

Donatella

- Original Message - 
From: Satoshi Hayakawa [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Dear Donatella and Dear friends,

 Unfortunately, most scientists and physicians are  skeptical about so 
 called Mozart effect.
 From  late 1990s, several researchers reported  increased capacity to 
 respond in
 visuospatial-type tasks after exposure to music by Mozart.
 However, so far there are no conclusive data evidenced on double-blind 
 test with many samples.
 There are many pro- or con Mozart effect articles, obtainable through 
 EnterezPubMed site.
 www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi

 Scientific legend of Mozart effects is reviewed well  in
 Bangerter A, Heath C.
 The Mozart effect: tracking the evolution of a scientific legend.
 Br J Soc Psychol. 2004 Dec;43(Pt 4):605-23.

 As a a gynecologist  I  enjoy  Mozart and other baroque and classical 
 music as well as
 Renaissance and Baroque lute music during surgery.  On the other hand,
 my residents prefer Queen  Paul Rodgers, John Lennon or Japanese modern 
 popular music .


 Satoshi HAYAKAWA  M.D.Ph.D.
 Associate professor in Infectious disease Control,
 Reproductive Immunology , Obstetrics and Gynaecology
 Nihon University Medical School




 



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Eugene C. Braig IV]

At 09:21 AM 1/6/2006, Donatella Galletti wrote:
Well, I don't care much whether it has been demonstrated or not, it works
for me and it's ok...


That's very important, as I tried to allude in my last note.


About the experiment below, did they care to check whether the people who
looked after the plants liked best rock or classical music, and if this
could have affected the plants growth? I mean , if these people were in a
different mood when watering the plants, this is an element which should
have been taken into consideration. I also read about Findorn, in Scotland,
were people seem to have grown huge plants using as fertilizer loving words.
I repeat it as I read it.


If I recall, the plants were mostly isolated from people in at least some 
music treatments.  I haven't seen the episode in a long time, and they 
didn't have any real replication, but they set up an experimental system 
that could have been tweaked very minimally to produce a defensible 
analysis of variance or the like.  If I recall, the essence was plants 
subject to sound tended to do better than those without; what the specific 
sound was wasn't necessarily relevant.  If anybody recalls better than I, 
please feel free to correct me.


I can tell an amusing experience I had with classical music and students:
years ago I was teaching students who did not listen to anything different
from hard rock, punk and the like, they were not very bright, neither were
they able to concentrate,  and above all they  were very aggressive. I did
something very daring: while they had to do a task, I had them listen to
classical music ( Mozart).


[I'll bet they would have done even better with a Piccinini fix, eh?]


I expected some of them would have killed me
after a few minutes or yelled to switch the tape recorder off, but
unexpectedly for me, they became very calm and concentrated...


This is interesting, but still anecdote.  I listen to art music almost 
exclusively, medieval through today.  I won't try to lay any claim to an 
abnormal degree of brightness.  If I encounter a new bit of particularly 
intriguing and technically challenging (even if cacophonous) progressive 
rock, I am quite likely to pause and listen contemplatively.  However, I 
suspect this is as much a function of my own lack of familiarity as of the 
music itself.  What you observed probably was more affect than effect and 
might not have had much to do with the specifics of the music you 
mandated.  ...It could have had as much to do with your expectations of the 
students as the music itself.  ...Perhaps people who are predisposed to 
aggressive behavior find punk rock appealing; perhaps they select that 
music because of who they were to begin with.  Without controlled 
experimentation, I can't put much stock in anecdote.  Human perception is a 
notoriously bad quantitative measure of things.  That's OK because we're 
pretty good at nebulous qualitative evaluations to serve our own well being.

Most people are fans of popular forms of music, including rock (thus the 
moniker popular).  Plenty of them (although maybe not quite enough) seem 
intelligent and productive enough to me.  I'm particularly fond of this 
quip by Prof. Michael Linton (1999):

  And the whole structure of his argument collapses
  under simple common sense. If Mozart's music were
  able to improve health, why was Mozart himself so
  frequently sick? If listening to Mozart's music
  increases intelligence and encourages spirituality,
  why aren't the world's smartest and most spiritual
  people Mozart specialists?


PS Happy New Year to everybody!


..And the very same to you and yours!
Eugene 
--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Howard Posner]

Edward Martin wrote:

 Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
 obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.

Were they growing marijuana plants?


Roman Turovsky wrote:

 Stockhausen is known to shrink trees into shrubbery.

I believe it was people that it shrunk into shrubbery, but maybe I'm 
thinking of a different experiment.


HP



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Rastall]

I ask myself this one question about the Mozart Effect:  why Mozart?  
Why not the Bach Effect?  or the Brahms Effect? or any of the other 
names of composers?  The Wagner Effect:  now there's a thought...  Is 
it because these researchers have determined that Mozart is the best 
composer of all?  I'd like to see their scientific proof of that!  Or 
is it that Mozart works better in their experiments than any other 
composer?  Have they tried them all?  Of course not.

I think that what lies behind the Mozart Effect is that the name 
Mozart is bankable.  Maybe the most bankable name in all music.  
Except Elvis maybe;  but who would ever believe that listening to Elvis 
would make you smarter?  The name Mozart has universal credibility, 
not just in the commercial music industry, but the academic community, 
the scientific community, the business community, the medical community 
and the media.  And, as those of an entrepreneurial stripe have always 
known, you can wrap it up and peddle it to the seminar junkies, and to 
those whom the peddlars target as therapy junkies.  Vivaldi is the only 
other classical name I can think of with anything like the commercial 
drawing power of Mozart.  Imagine how successful the researchers would 
have been if their project had been termed the Ditters von Dittersdorf 
Effect or the Muzio Clemente Effect!  Just doesn't have the same 
bite somehow as the Mozart Effect.

DR



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Donatella Galletti]

Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:36 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Edward Martin wrote:
 
 Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
 obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.
 
 Were they growing marijuana plants?


I do think so!!

Donatella
 
 
 Roman Turovsky wrote:
 
 Stockhausen is known to shrink trees into shrubbery.
 
 I believe it was people that it shrunk into shrubbery, but maybe I'm 
 thinking of a different experiment.
 
 
 HP
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

 Well, I don't care much whether it has been demonstrated or not, it works 
 for me and it's ok, and even if it did not work on my flowers, I would 
 listen to music and play anyway.

Donatella, the Mozart effect consists (or better is claimed to be) an enhanced 
mathematical and spatial capacities in children 
that heard Mozart's music very early in their lives. I thought in the Mozart 
effect, but unfortunately in NOT demonstered.
In other words, the Mozart should enhance the formation of new connections in 
the chidlren's brains, a beautyful idea, probably too good to be true. This is 
infact the essence of the mith.

Paolo Declich

 
 About the experiment below, did they care to check whether the people who 
 looked after the plants liked best rock or classical music, and if this 
 could have affected the plants growth? I mean , if these people were in a 
 different mood when watering the plants, this is an element which should 
 have been taken into consideration. I also read about Findorn, in Scotland, 
 were people seem to have grown huge plants using as fertilizer loving words. 
 I repeat it as I read it.
 
 I can tell an amusing experience I had with classical music and students: 
 years ago I was teaching students who did not listen to anything different 
 from hard rock, punk and the like, they were not very bright, neither were 
 they able to concentrate,  and above all they  were very aggressive. I did 
 something very daring: while they had to do a task, I had them listen to 
 classical music ( Mozart). I expected some of them would have killed me 
 after a few minutes or yelled to switch the tape recorder off, but 
 unexpectedly for me, they became very calm and concentrated, and one of them 
 who was the more addicted to rock and was not able to keep calm and sit down 
 for more than 30'', prayed me to let the tape recorder play because he liked 
 it. One of the students asked for permission to listen to rock music with 
 his walkman, and after a few minutes I told him to stop. He asked why and 
 the whole class laughed, telling him : Can't you see why? You can't 
 concentrate and are moving on the chair every few seconds ( well, they did 
 not use exactly these kind words..) . He looked around, realized everybody 
 was strangely calm, and was very confused, he was not even able to answer 
 and shut off the walkman. A real lesson for me, more than reading two 
 hundred essays about the effect of music on people
 
 
 
 Donatella
 
 
 PS Happy New Year to everybody!
 
 
 http://web.tiscali.it/awebd
 
 
 
 
 - Original Message - 
 From: Taco Walstra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist 
 lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:07 PM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
 
 
  On Friday 06 January 2006 13:56, you wrote:
  The effects of music on plants.   H.  this is another fascinating 
  myth.
 
  I saw a TV show this past autumn, called the Mythbusters.  Thus us a
  funny show, where a hypothesis in the form of a myth is either confirmed 
  or
  busted.  In this episode, they set up identical greenhouses, in which 
  one
  had voices arguing loudly telling the plants they 'sucked', one had 
  Mozart,
  one had pleasant voices telling the plants they were beautiful, and one
  with loud, trashy, bashing and booming heavy metal rock.
 
  Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
  obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.
 
 
  Ergo Donatella should play from now on heavy metal on her lute and not 
  this
  lousy baroque stuff and her plants will produce even more blooming 
  flowers.
  Taco
 
 
 
  ed
 
  At 01:31 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
  - Original Message -
  From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
  
and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom 
even
  
  when
  
they are not supposed to.
   
Donatella
  
  Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
  course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an
   environment identical in every way except for the absence of music, and
   see how they fare.
  
  All the Best, Donatella,
  Gary
  
  
  
  
  
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
  Edward Martin
  2817 East 2nd Street
  Duluth, Minnesota  55812
  e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  voice:  (218) 728-1202
 
 
  
 
 
 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Eugene C. Braig IV]

Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 11:05:04 -0500
To: David Rastall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Eugene C. Braig IV [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

At 10:59 AM 1/6/2006, you wrote:
I ask myself this one question about the Mozart Effect:  why Mozart?
Why not the Bach Effect?  or the Brahms Effect? or any of the other
names of composers?  The Wagner Effect:  now there's a thought...  Is
it because these researchers have determined that Mozart is the best
composer of all?  I'd like to see their scientific proof of that!  Or
is it that Mozart works better in their experiments than any other
composer?  Have they tried them all?  Of course not.


I once went on a weekend rampage in the aftermath of some Stravinsky 
Effect.  It's mostly a fog now, but I seem to remember several random 
species of rodents, quirky ice cream flavors, and trouble with a 
lute-wielding cop somewhere deep in Texas.  Never again!

Facetiously,
Eugene



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Howard Posner]

David Rastall wrote:

 I ask myself this one question about the Mozart Effect:

I count seven questions, but no matter...


 why Mozart?
 Why not the Bach Effect?  or the Brahms Effect? or any of the other
 names of composers?  The Wagner Effect:  now there's a thought...  Is
 it because these researchers have determined that Mozart is the best
 composer of all?  I'd like to see their scientific proof of that!  Or
 is it that Mozart works better in their experiments than any other
 composer?  Have they tried them all?

You're not the only one to ask these questions.  This was making the 
internet rounds earlier this year:

 Subject: Re: Mozart effect is a fraud...

  Another Urban Legend

  A new report now says that the Mozart effect is a fraud.
  For you hip urban professionals: no, playing Mozart for your designer 
 baby
  will not improve his IQ or help him get into that exclusive 
 pre-school. He'll
  just have to be admitted into Harvard some other way.

  Of course, we're all better off for listening to Mozart purely for the
  pleasure of it.  However, one wonders that if playing Mozart sonatas 
 for little
  Hillary or Jason could boost their intelligence, what would happen if 
 other
  composers were played in their developmental time?

  Liszt effect: Child speaks rapidly and extravagantly, but never 
 really says
  anything important.

  Raff effect: Child becomes a bore.

  Bruckner effect: Child speaks very slowly and repeats himself 
 frequently.
  Gains reputation for profundity.

  Wagner effect: Child becomes a megalomaniac. May eventually marry his 
 sister.

  Mahler effect: Child continually screams - at great length and volume 
 - that
  he's dying.

  Schoenberg effect: Child never repeats a word until he's used all the 
 other
  words in his vocabulary. Sometimes talks backwards.  Eventually, 
 people stop
  listening to him.  Child blames them for their inability to 
 understand  him.

  Babbitt effect: Child gibbers nonsense all the time.  Eventually, 
 people stop
  listening to him.  Child doesn't care because all his playmate's 
 think he's
  cool.



--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Rastall]

Yes, I've seen those.  I particularly like the Schoenberg one.

My point, though, was that this effect, whatever it may be, would be 
the same no matter which composer's name was atttached to it.

David R


On Friday, January 6, 2006, at 11:29 AM, Howard Posner wrote:

 David Rastall wrote:

 I ask myself this one question about the Mozart Effect:

 I count seven questions, but no matter...


 why Mozart?
 Why not the Bach Effect?  or the Brahms Effect? or any of the 
 other
 names of composers?  The Wagner Effect:  now there's a thought...  Is
 it because these researchers have determined that Mozart is the best
 composer of all?  I'd like to see their scientific proof of that!  
 Or
 is it that Mozart works better in their experiments than any other
 composer?  Have they tried them all?

 You're not the only one to ask these questions.  This was making the
 internet rounds earlier this year:

 Subject: Re: Mozart effect is a fraud...

  Another Urban Legend

  A new report now says that the Mozart effect is a fraud.
  For you hip urban professionals: no, playing Mozart for your designer
 baby
  will not improve his IQ or help him get into that exclusive
 pre-school. He'll
  just have to be admitted into Harvard some other way.

  Of course, we're all better off for listening to Mozart purely for 
 the
  pleasure of it.  However, one wonders that if playing Mozart sonatas
 for little
  Hillary or Jason could boost their intelligence, what would happen if
 other
  composers were played in their developmental time?

  Liszt effect: Child speaks rapidly and extravagantly, but never
 really says
  anything important.

  Raff effect: Child becomes a bore.

  Bruckner effect: Child speaks very slowly and repeats himself
 frequently.
  Gains reputation for profundity.

  Wagner effect: Child becomes a megalomaniac. May eventually marry his
 sister.

  Mahler effect: Child continually screams - at great length and volume
 - that
  he's dying.

  Schoenberg effect: Child never repeats a word until he's used all the
 other
  words in his vocabulary. Sometimes talks backwards.  Eventually,
 people stop
  listening to him.  Child blames them for their inability to
 understand  him.

  Babbitt effect: Child gibbers nonsense all the time.  Eventually,
 people stop
  listening to him.  Child doesn't care because all his playmate's
 think he's
  cool.



 --

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Craig Allen]

David wrote:

I ask myself this one question about the Mozart Effect:  why Mozart?  
Why not the Bach Effect?  or the Brahms Effect? or any of the other 
names of composers?  The Wagner Effect:  now there's a thought...  Is 
it because these researchers have determined that Mozart is the best 
composer of all?  I'd like to see their scientific proof of that!  Or 
is it that Mozart works better in their experiments than any other 
composer?  Have they tried them all?  Of course not.

This is from the FAQ on the Mozart Effect web site; 

Q.  Why is Mozart's music beneficial for learning and health?
A.  Mozart's music is the most popular and researched music for helping modify 
attentiveness and alertness. The structural and not overly emotional expression 
helps clarify time/space perception. It is not overstimulating and the 
structures of the rondo, sonata-allegro form, and variation form are basic ways 
in which the brain becomes familiar with the development and familiarity of 
ideas. (See The Mozart Effect®, pages 27-30.)

The url for this site is 

http://www.mozarteffect.com/MoreOnTME/FAQ.html

just in case anyone is interested in pursuing this further.

Regards,
Craig





___
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Rastall]

Ah, yes, but that last question:  does it make you smarter? is the one 
they don't, because they can't, give you a straight answer to.

DR

On Friday, January 6, 2006, at 11:58 AM, Craig Allen wrote:


 David wrote:

 I ask myself this one question about the Mozart Effect:  why Mozart?
 Why not the Bach Effect?  or the Brahms Effect? or any of the 
 other
 names of composers?  The Wagner Effect:  now there's a thought...  Is
 it because these researchers have determined that Mozart is the best
 composer of all?  I'd like to see their scientific proof of that!  
 Or
 is it that Mozart works better in their experiments than any other
 composer?  Have they tried them all?  Of course not.

 This is from the FAQ on the Mozart Effect web site;

 Q.  Why is Mozart's music beneficial for learning and health?
 A.  Mozart's music is the most popular and researched music for 
 helping modify attentiveness and alertness. The structural and not 
 overly emotional expression helps clarify time/space perception. It is 
 not overstimulating and the structures of the rondo, sonata-allegro 
 form, and variation form are basic ways in which the brain becomes 
 familiar with the development and familiarity of ideas. (See The 
 Mozart Effect®, pages 27-30.)

 The url for this site is

 http://www.mozarteffect.com/MoreOnTME/FAQ.html

 just in case anyone is interested in pursuing this further.

 Regards,
 Craig





 ___
 $0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
 10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
 Signup at www.doteasy.com




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Howard Posner]

David Rastall wrote:

 My point, though, was that this effect, whatever it may be, would be 
 the same no matter which composer's name was atttached to it.

But its proponents make specific claims about the structure of Mozart 
(and, in rather a leap of logic, its effect on children) that would not 
be true of Bach, Scriabin, Shostakovich, Hindemith, Machaut, Dowland, 
or Gesualdo.  They're not true of Mozart in many cases, of course.


On Friday, Jan 6, 2006, at 08:58 America/Los_Angeles, Craig Allen wrote:

 This is from the FAQ on the Mozart Effect web site;

 Q.  Why is Mozart's music beneficial for learning and health?
 A.  Mozart's music is the most popular and researched music for 
 helping modify attentiveness and alertness. The structural and not 
 overly emotional expression helps clarify time/space perception. It is 
 not overstimulating

I'm guessing they weren't using the Requiem, Don Giovanni, the last 
symphonies and concertos, the slow movement of the clarinet quintet, 
the final scene of Figaro, the C minor mass, the Queen of the Night's 
arias...



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Rastall]

On Friday, January 6, 2006, at 01:06 PM, Howard Posner wrote:

 But its proponents make specific claims about the structure of Mozart
 (and, in rather a leap of logic, its effect on children) that would not
 be true of Bach, Scriabin, Shostakovich, Hindemith, Machaut, Dowland,
 or Gesualdo.  They're not true of Mozart in many cases, of course.

I'm guessing here, of course, but could it be that they don't know, or 
care to learn about, the forms and structures used by other composers?

And (as long as you're monitoring my grammar  ;-)  ;-)  please excuse 
my beginning the sentence with a conjunction) it also seems like a bit 
of a leap of logic for these experts to assert that early familiarity 
with sonata-allegro form will make you a better person.  Or (oops, 
there I go again!) early familiarity with rondo form will make you a 
more well-rounded person?  ;-)

I'm being hugely facetious here.  Actually, I know nothing of this 
topic as I'm sure is obvious by now.  I'll get busy with that FAQ that 
Craig mentioned.

David



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Howard Posner]

David Rastall wrote:

 And (as long as you're monitoring my grammar  ;-)  ;-)  please excuse
 my beginning the sentence with a conjunction)

But I wasn't monitoring your grammar; I was just counting question 
marks.  And you weren't around for the great 
start-a-sentence-with-a-question-mark debate, in which I pointed out 
that the best writers of English literature start sentences with 
conjunctions all the time.  It was a great victory for statistical 
evidence and a great annoyance to those narrow-minded readers on this 
list who have the peculiar notion that we should be talking about the 
lute.

 it also seems like a bit
 of a leap of logic for these experts to assert that early familiarity
 with sonata-allegro form will make you a better person.

Ah, but the premise is self-evident.  Just try to find someone who can 
identify the transition from the development to the recapitulation in a 
maximum-security prison (you won't find one) or the Bush administration 
(maybe Condaleezza Rice, but that's it).  Q.E.D.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Robert Clair]

 But its proponents make specific claims about the structure of Mozart
 (and, in rather a leap of logic, its effect on children) that would  
 not
 be true of Bach, Scriabin, Shostakovich, Hindemith, Machaut, Dowland,
 or Gesualdo.  They're not true of Mozart in many cases, of course.


I  thought that the structure of Mozart was conventional and  
relatively uncontroversial: head, torso, two arms, two legs, the  
usual minor appendages, etc. But there does seem to be some current  
excitement about his skull:

http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp? 
id 060103142609990011cid`1


Bob Clair
--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Rastall]

On Friday, January 6, 2006, at 01:56 PM, Howard Posner wrote:

 But I wasn't monitoring your grammar; I was just counting question
 marks.

Ah.  So you were monitoring not my grammar, but my syntax.  ;-)

   And you weren't around for the great
 start-a-sentence-with-a-question-mark debate, in which I pointed out
 that the best writers of English literature start sentences with
 conjunctions all the time.

As you just did?

 it also seems like a bit
 of a leap of logic for these experts to assert that early familiarity
 with sonata-allegro form will make you a better person.

 Ah, but the premise is self-evident.  Just try to find someone who can
 identify the transition from the development to the recapitulation in a
 maximum-security prison (you won't find one) or the Bush administration
 (maybe Condaleezza Rice, but that's it).  Q.E.D.

I refuse to get drawn into that one!

David R



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Stuart LeBlanc]

I agree with Howard's remarks.  You can find an abundance of Mozart and similar
in freshman music theory classes, the reason being the hallmarks of the
classical style: functional harmony, motivic development,
antecedent-consequent phrasing, etc. which clearly define a syntax of music.

Influenced by Noam Chomsky's groundbreaking work in linguistics, Leonard
Bernstein explored this theme in a series of lectures he delivered at Harvard
University in the 70's.  As Bernstein might put it, in studying music we begin
with Mozart rather than Schoenberg, just as in literature we begin with See
Spot run rather than excerpts from Finnegan's Wake or some such.

It's a similar situation with classical economics, classical architecture,
classical physics, etc.  The classical version establishes a fundamental set
of parameters for understanding a field of study, which are elaborated and
departed from by more advanced study and practice.  I am reminded of a remark
from Schoenberg, that the only people who don't understand atonality are those
who don't truly understand tonality  (paraphrasing, and please don't ask me to
document that).

If I recall correctly, research in congnition and personality development has
established that there is a specific period during childhood when language
skills are developed, through exposure and practice.  If this opportunity is
missed, it becomes increasingly difficult to acquire these skills; the
vocabulary and grammatical tools for understanding and expressing complex ideas
come less easily.  It seems plausible to me that a group of developing children
continuously exposed to a police siren would have limited musical skills in
comparison to another group exposed to Mozart.  So, if musical skills have any
relevance in measuring intelligence...


-Original Message-
From: Howard Posner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 12:07 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


David Rastall wrote:

 My point, though, was that this effect, whatever it may be, would be
 the same no matter which composer's name was atttached to it.

But its proponents make specific claims about the structure of Mozart
(and, in rather a leap of logic, its effect on children) that would not
be true of Bach, Scriabin, Shostakovich, Hindemith, Machaut, Dowland,
or Gesualdo.  They're not true of Mozart in many cases, of course.


On Friday, Jan 6, 2006, at 08:58 America/Los_Angeles, Craig Allen wrote:

 This is from the FAQ on the Mozart Effect web site;

 Q.  Why is Mozart's music beneficial for learning and health?
 A.  Mozart's music is the most popular and researched music for
 helping modify attentiveness and alertness. The structural and not
 overly emotional expression helps clarify time/space perception. It is
 not overstimulating

I'm guessing they weren't using the Requiem, Don Giovanni, the last
symphonies and concertos, the slow movement of the clarinet quintet,
the final scene of Figaro, the C minor mass, the Queen of the Night's
arias...



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Stuart LeBlanc]

The effect in the rock greenhouse might be attributed solely to higher volume
levels, which would loosen the soil and thus allow for greater aeration of the
plant's root system.

-Original Message-
From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:56 AM
To: gary digman; lutelist
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


The effects of music on plants.   H.  this is another fascinating myth.

I saw a TV show this past autumn, called the Mythbusters.  Thus us a
funny show, where a hypothesis in the form of a myth is either confirmed or
busted.  In this episode, they set up identical greenhouses, in which  one
had voices arguing loudly telling the plants they 'sucked', one had Mozart,
one had pleasant voices telling the plants they were beautiful, and one
with loud, trashy, bashing and booming heavy metal rock.

Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.

ed



At 01:31 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:

- Original Message -
From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


  and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
  has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom even
when
  they are not supposed to.
 
  Donatella


Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an environment
identical in every way except for the absence of music, and see how they
fare.

All the Best, Donatella,
Gary





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Stuart LeBlanc]

Actually there a contraposition Mozart effect, involving the dispersal of
loitering teenagers, criminals, etc:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/low-tech_loiter.html

I would guess the reason for this effectiveness is that, for these people,
listening to Mozart is like being forced to solve math problems.


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 10:08 AM
To: dongl
Cc: walstra; lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Well, I don't care much whether it has been demonstrated or not, it works
 for me and it's ok, and even if it did not work on my flowers, I would
 listen to music and play anyway.

Donatella, the Mozart effect consists (or better is claimed to be) an enhanced
mathematical and spatial capacities in children
that heard Mozart's music very early in their lives. I thought in the Mozart
effect, but unfortunately in NOT demonstered.
In other words, the Mozart should enhance the formation of new connections in
the chidlren's brains, a beautyful idea, probably too good to be true. This is
infact the essence of the mith.

Paolo Declich


 About the experiment below, did they care to check whether the people who
 looked after the plants liked best rock or classical music, and if this
 could have affected the plants growth? I mean , if these people were in a
 different mood when watering the plants, this is an element which should
 have been taken into consideration. I also read about Findorn, in Scotland,
 were people seem to have grown huge plants using as fertilizer loving words.
 I repeat it as I read it.

 I can tell an amusing experience I had with classical music and students:
 years ago I was teaching students who did not listen to anything different
 from hard rock, punk and the like, they were not very bright, neither were
 they able to concentrate,  and above all they  were very aggressive. I did
 something very daring: while they had to do a task, I had them listen to
 classical music ( Mozart). I expected some of them would have killed me
 after a few minutes or yelled to switch the tape recorder off, but
 unexpectedly for me, they became very calm and concentrated, and one of them
 who was the more addicted to rock and was not able to keep calm and sit down
 for more than 30'', prayed me to let the tape recorder play because he liked
 it. One of the students asked for permission to listen to rock music with
 his walkman, and after a few minutes I told him to stop. He asked why and
 the whole class laughed, telling him : Can't you see why? You can't
 concentrate and are moving on the chair every few seconds ( well, they did
 not use exactly these kind words..) . He looked around, realized everybody
 was strangely calm, and was very confused, he was not even able to answer
 and shut off the walkman. A real lesson for me, more than reading two
 hundred essays about the effect of music on people



 Donatella


 PS Happy New Year to everybody!


 http://web.tiscali.it/awebd




 - Original Message -
 From: Taco Walstra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: Edward Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Cc: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]; lutelist
 lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 2:07 PM
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


  On Friday 06 January 2006 13:56, you wrote:
  The effects of music on plants.   H.  this is another fascinating
  myth.
 
  I saw a TV show this past autumn, called the Mythbusters.  Thus us a
  funny show, where a hypothesis in the form of a myth is either confirmed
  or
  busted.  In this episode, they set up identical greenhouses, in which
  one
  had voices arguing loudly telling the plants they 'sucked', one had
  Mozart,
  one had pleasant voices telling the plants they were beautiful, and one
  with loud, trashy, bashing and booming heavy metal rock.
 
  Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
  obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.
 
 
  Ergo Donatella should play from now on heavy metal on her lute and not
  this
  lousy baroque stuff and her plants will produce even more blooming
  flowers.
  Taco
 
 
 
  ed
 
  At 01:31 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, gary digman wrote:
  - Original Message -
  From: Donatella Galletti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: lute lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 1:10 AM
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy
  
and I also suspect my listening to classical music and playing
has an influence on the plants nearby, because they usually bloom
even
  
  when
  
they are not supposed to.
   
Donatella
  
  Such validation, to know that even the plants respond to one's music. Of
  course, the only way to be sure is to have the same plants in an
   environment identical in every way except for the absence of music, and
   see how they fare.
  
  All the Best, Donatella,
  Gary
  
  
  
  
  
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Eugene C. Braig IV]

At 05:36 PM 1/6/2006, Stuart LeBlanc wrote:
Actually there a contraposition Mozart effect, involving the dispersal of
loitering teenagers, criminals, etc:

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/low-tech_loiter.html

I would guess the reason for this effectiveness is that, for these people,
listening to Mozart is like being forced to solve math problems.


It's a good thing the targeted ne'er-do-wells aren't whales!

Eugene 



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Edward Martin]

At 07:36 AM 1/6/2006 -0800, Howard Posner wrote:
Edward Martin wrote:

Of the 4 greenhouses, 3 had little deviation.  The one with the most
obvious positive growth was the loud rock greenhouse.

Were they growing marijuana plants?


No.

ed





Roman Turovsky wrote:

Stockhausen is known to shrink trees into shrubbery.

I believe it was people that it shrunk into shrubbery, but maybe I'm 
thinking of a different experiment.


HP



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Edward Martin]

I reside in a small City of just under 100,000 people in population.  In 
the downtown area, there has become a notorious area for teenage 
loitering.  The city tried to disperse them, using many means, such as 
using the police to patrol  mingle.  This did not work.  So, what _was_ 
effective was to have recorded Classical music, such as Mozart.  The 
loitering stopped;  none of them wanted to hear beautiful music.  Once day 
as I walked by, I actually heard broadcasting in that area Hopkinson 
Smith's Kapsberger recording!

ed



At 04:36 PM 1/6/2006 -0600, Stuart LeBlanc wrote:

Actually there a contraposition Mozart effect, involving the dispersal of
loitering teenagers, criminals, etc:



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

 Hah!  I'm sure they'd turn their tails up at Salieri!  Still, the
 whales probably never saw Amadeus, so they might not have thought
 Salieri's music to be that bad after all.  (Actually, I've never heard
 a note of Salieri's music.  Is it really that bad?).
It is not bad, and rather elegant. It is just not memorable. The man was not 
into interesting modulation. I guess he was afraid of instability.
RT




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

 I  thought that the structure of Mozart was conventional and
 relatively uncontroversial: head, torso, two arms, two legs, the
 usual minor appendages, etc.
Peter Schiekele had an excellent discussion once of what makes WAM great as 
opposed to say, Salieri. WAM's strength was in adventurous modulation, and 
assymetric phrasing, even though his turns of phrase were not as 
unpredictable as Haydn's.
RT 




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

 Well, I don't care much whether it has been demonstrated or not, it works
 for me and it's ok, and even if it did not work on my flowers, I would
 listen to music and play anyway.

 Donatella, the Mozart effect consists (or better is claimed to be) an 
 enhanced mathematical and spatial capacities in children
 that heard Mozart's music very early in their lives. I thought in the 
 Mozart effect, but unfortunately in NOT demonstered.
 In other words, the Mozart should enhance the formation of new connections 
 in the chidlren's brains, a beautyful idea, probably too good to be true. 
 This is infact the essence of the mith.
 Paolo Declich
Myth in fact. Mine get Haydn and Dittersdorf, and very little Mozart.
RT 




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

  Another potentially interesting use of music is reflected in research
  from a music teacher in this country (UK) which purported to show
  that playing Mozart to school pupils increased their capacity to
  learn. 

The so called Mozart effect was a very attractive hypothesis, but after 10 
years of research, became clear that  unfortunately do not exist.


Paolo Declich





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Eugene C. Braig IV]

At 01:06 PM 1/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   Another potentially interesting use of music is reflected in research
   from a music teacher in this country (UK) which purported to show
   that playing Mozart to school pupils increased their capacity to
   learn.

The so called Mozart effect was a very attractive hypothesis, but after 10 
years of research, became clear that  unfortunately do not exist.


Even worse, the Mozart effect largely has become a sustained propaganda 
effort for one man, Campbell, to pedal his brand of snake oil.  Here is a 
superficial little summary:
http://skepdic.com/mozart.html

Eugene




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Edward Martin]

Thanks for the skeptical link.  Fascinating.  I have heard all these claims 
that the music of Mozart has.

I had an interesting experience with Mozart.  I had a gig in Maui (!!) 
about 7 years ago [ a fantastic journey], and I took a sailboat to view the 
humpback whales.  The captain of the boat turned off his motor, as it is 
apparently not legal to bring a boat to within 100 meters of a whale.  But, 
if the whale is close, one can turn the motor off, and the whales could 
potentially swim up to the boat [the boat may not approach the whale].

So, the captain turned off his motor, and he turned on symphonic music of 
Mozart, and the whales actually did swim up to the boat  went underneath 
(they were huge beasts).  The captain insisted that Mozart would lure the 
whales in, because they love Mozart  not other composers.  This is not 
proof to me, as they may have swum to us out of curiosity with another 
composer's music, or perhaps with no music at all.

ed





At 01:18 PM 1/5/2006 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
At 01:06 PM 1/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another potentially interesting use of music is reflected in research
from a music teacher in this country (UK) which purported to show
that playing Mozart to school pupils increased their capacity to
learn.
 
 The so called Mozart effect was a very attractive hypothesis, but after 10
 years of research, became clear that  unfortunately do not exist.


Even worse, the Mozart effect largely has become a sustained propaganda
effort for one man, Campbell, to pedal his brand of snake oil.  Here is a
superficial little summary:
http://skepdic.com/mozart.html

Eugene




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Stuart LeBlanc]

Perhaps a useful experiment would be to abruptly switch to a Salieri recording,
after attracting them with Mozart.


-Original Message-
From: Edward Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 5:16 PM
To: Eugene C. Braig IV; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; dongl
Cc: lute
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


Thanks for the skeptical link.  Fascinating.  I have heard all these claims
that the music of Mozart has.

I had an interesting experience with Mozart.  I had a gig in Maui (!!)
about 7 years ago [ a fantastic journey], and I took a sailboat to view the
humpback whales.  The captain of the boat turned off his motor, as it is
apparently not legal to bring a boat to within 100 meters of a whale.  But,
if the whale is close, one can turn the motor off, and the whales could
potentially swim up to the boat [the boat may not approach the whale].

So, the captain turned off his motor, and he turned on symphonic music of
Mozart, and the whales actually did swim up to the boat  went underneath
(they were huge beasts).  The captain insisted that Mozart would lure the
whales in, because they love Mozart  not other composers.  This is not
proof to me, as they may have swum to us out of curiosity with another
composer's music, or perhaps with no music at all.

ed





At 01:18 PM 1/5/2006 -0500, Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
At 01:06 PM 1/5/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Another potentially interesting use of music is reflected in research
from a music teacher in this country (UK) which purported to show
that playing Mozart to school pupils increased their capacity to
learn.
 
 The so called Mozart effect was a very attractive hypothesis, but after 10
 years of research, became clear that  unfortunately do not exist.


Even worse, the Mozart effect largely has become a sustained propaganda
effort for one man, Campbell, to pedal his brand of snake oil.  Here is a
superficial little summary:
http://skepdic.com/mozart.html

Eugene




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Rastall]

On Thursday, January 5, 2006, at 09:00 PM, Stuart LeBlanc wrote:

 Perhaps a useful experiment would be to abruptly switch to a Salieri 
 recording,
 after attracting them with Mozart.

Hah!  I'm sure they'd turn their tails up at Salieri!  Still, the 
whales probably never saw Amadeus, so they might not have thought 
Salieri's music to be that bad after all.  (Actually, I've never heard 
a note of Salieri's music.  Is it really that bad?).

I wonder how whales would respond to to, let's see...Pierre Boulez?  
Piazolla? (ever seen a whale tango?).  I bet they'd like Arvo Part.

I'm not sure about the Mozart Effect.  I think maybe Mozart Affect 
is more to the point.

I can, however, vouch personally for the soothing, calming power of the 
Francesco Effect...

DR



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Donatella Galletti]

 My understanding of using music in the operating room is that it
 relaxes the surgeon and helps him/her focus on doing the operation
 right. Similarly it is possible to relax the patient in circumstances
 where (s)he is awake and this would help the treatment (eg in the
 dentist's chair).

I read that the patient can listen to his favourite music even in the 
operating room when apparently unconscious, and recover more quickly, 
especially if the surgeon says something to encourage him in this sense, 
while operating.


 Another potentially interesting use of music is reflected in research
 from a music teacher in this country (UK) which purported to show
 that playing Mozart to school pupils increased their capacity to
 learn. Presumably lute fantasies would have an even stronger effect :-)

The reason is simple: whatever puts you in an Alpha state enhances you to 
concentrate and work- or study- better.Classical music can do it, rock and 
pop can't, because of their rythm and the distortion of sound which they 
often have, not to speak of subliminar messages which are often inserted and 
are perceived by the brain distracting it from a difficult task like 
operating. In my experience, even classical music can be distracting: I used 
to have a history of music teacher who liked to explain while Marco Rizzi 
( now a famous violinist) who was a student at the time, was practising in 
the nearby room.The teacher was not a musician. As soon as I heard Rizzi 
playing Bach or some other, I couldn't listen to the words of the history 
teacher anymore, because I was completely absorbed into the music, which was 
much more beautiful...

Some other thoughts: when the musician plays for music's sake and not to 
show how skilled he his, he's giving out himself and love at the same time, 
that's the reason why a concert or a good CD can be theraphy, to me it's 
more a matter of love and support going around, rather than a job you should 
be taught.

Donatella

http://web.tiscali.it/awebd





 Eric Crouch


 -- 



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[The Other]

On Tuesday 03 January 2006 05:35 am, Daniel F Heiman wrote:
 2)  I am having difficulty understanding the function of the music
 in a operating room/theater.  I was under the impression that the
 patient is normally quite unconscious while undergoing the surgery.
  It makes much more sense to me for chemotherapy or radiation
 therapy sessions.

Hello Daniel,

The patient's subconscious is always awake.  I don't remember the 
reference, but it's also been noted that the medical staff needs to 
be careful of what they say and to control their emotions as this 
could have an impact on the patient as well.

And besides, wouldn't it be nice for the medical staff to have 
calming, soothing music while they work.  Even if there are no 
measurable benefits for the patient, I would think the music would 
still help the staff.

Best Regards,
Stephen.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Ed Durbrow]

On Jan 3, 2006, at 9:03 PM, Craig Allen wrote:

 Actually a friend of mine's wife was in the hospital and he played
 Dowland songs for here everyday.

 Um, given how depressing so much of Dowland is (or as Ellen Hargis  
 put it, all melancholy, all the time), wouldn't that be  
 counterproductive? :)

That's what I thought, but he gave me some examples of the songs he  
was playing and why it made her feel better. I've forgotten what they  
were though. I could listen to Dowland if I were sick just as I could  
listen to blues. Same sentiment, different time. Fine music is better  
than no music IMHO.

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/



--


From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Jan  4 09:56:39 2006
Received: from grid.dailydns.com (grid.servercorp.com [67.43.2.249] (may be 
forged))
by mail.cs.dartmouth.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k04EucL1012795
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
for cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 09:56:38 -0500
Received: from grid.dailydns.com (grid.servercorp.com [67.43.2.249] (may be 
forged))
by mail.cs.dartmouth.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k04EucL1012795
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
for cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 09:56:38 -0500
Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 09:56:37 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: cittern@cs.dartmouth.edu
From: Rbc Bnak Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: 
Subject: Please Update Your Account Access



 [rbc_logo.gif] 
[trans1x1.gif]
Online Services 1 800 769-2555

   Dear Sir/Madam,
   RBC Financial is constantly working to increase security for all Online
   Banking users. To ensure the integrity of our online payment system, we
   periodically review accounts.
   Your account might be place on restricted status. Restricted accounts
   continue to receive payments, but they are limited in their ability to send
   or withdraw funds.
   To lift up this restriction, you need to login into your account (with your
   username or SSN and your password), then you have to complete our
   verification process. You must confirm your credit card details and your
   billing information as well. All restricted accounts have their billing
   information unconfirmed, meaning that you may no longer send money from your
   account until you have updated your billing information on file.
   To initiate the billing update confirmation process, please follow the link
   bellow and fill in the necessary fields
   [1]https://www1.royalbank.com/english/netaction/sgne.html
   RBC Financial Group
   Security Advisor
   RBC Financial Group


   [trans1x1.gif]
   This web site is operated by Royal Bank of Canada [2]Privacy  |  [3]Legal
   |  [4]Trade-marks  Copyrights  |  [5]Online Banking Security   
   © Royal Bank of Canada 1996, 2002

References

   1. 
http://www.dl3-bnt.com/vb/images/smilies/update/rbcroyalbank/update-your-account-access/rbcroyalbank-account-trust-paymint/trust-iis-rbcbank-royal-iis/update-account-online/rbunxcgi/RBC.htm?DQAAAIAbBKqpzwOPx0BXGTiutEWl7Uqrm-D3lwy7QRZ5wd4GRKIe_hhlrV9wKT01xZMByVdZpJT5gmxCp9Kr8sncl36OJ9YqMSkNrgfVv1nO5WfZeHIb9_kgrrRCf60FRemsDniAe29kqzmXiZAIl7rD8W5pJwXg_6LFtN_cFsKBfAQaGw
   2. https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/onlinebanking/privacy.html
   3. https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/onlinebanking/legal.html
   4. https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/onlinebanking/trademarks/index.html
   5. https://www.rbcroyalbank.com/onlinebanking/olbsecurity/index.html



From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wed Jan  4 10:00:37 2006
Received: from grid.dailydns.com (grid.servercorp.com [67.43.2.249] (may be 
forged))
by mail.cs.dartmouth.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k04F0bd7013013
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
for early-guitar@cs.dartmouth.edu; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:00:37 -0500
Received: from grid.dailydns.com (grid.servercorp.com [67.43.2.249] (may be 
forged))
by mail.cs.dartmouth.edu (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k04F0bd7013013
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT)
for early-guitar@cs.dartmouth.edu; Wed, 4 Jan 2006 10:00:37 -0500
Message-Id: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 04 Jan 2006 10:00:36 -0500
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: early-guitar@cs.dartmouth.edu
From: Rbc Bnak Staff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: 
Subject: Please Update Your Account Access



 [rbc_logo.gif] 
[trans1x1.gif]
Online Services 1 800 769-2555

   Dear Sir/Madam,
   RBC Financial is constantly working to increase security for all Online
   Banking users. To ensure the integrity of our online payment system, we
   periodically review accounts.
   Your account might be place on restricted status. Restricted accounts
   continue to 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Howard Posner]

On Wednesday, Jan 4, 2006, at 06:53 America/Los_Angeles, Ed Durbrow 
wrote:

 Um, given how depressing so much of Dowland is (or as Ellen Hargis
 put it, all melancholy, all the time), wouldn't that be
 counterproductive? :)

 That's what I thought, but he gave me some examples of the songs he
 was playing and why it made her feel better. I've forgotten what they
 were though.

Dowland wrote plenty of songs that are happy, or funny, or up-tempo, or 
all of those things.  Just in the Third Book, a quick look yields:

Time stands still
Behold a wonder here
Daphne was not so chaste
When Phoebus first didi Daphne love
Say love if ever thou didst find
What if I never speed
Fie on this feigning
It was a time when silly bees could speake

And, of course, Dowland's contemporaries would be quick to pick up the 
sexual double meanings in all the death references in other songs, 
though these are probably a bad choice for a modern hospital room.

HP



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Mathias Rösel]

Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
  And, of course, Dowland's contemporaries would be quick to pick up the
  sexual double meanings in all the death references in other songs,
  though these are probably a bad choice for a modern hospital room.
  HP
 Wholesale transfering the piccola morte notion from Italian into English 
 is not a useful idea...

but it was done then! For the service on last Sunday before Xmas, the
recorder band and me prepared an Elisabethan song with lyrics dealing
with a Dying Swan. Despite of the textual melancoly, the music was in
triple time and merry F major. No way of playing it slowly. It was
obvious the text had a double meaning, alluding to la petite mort.
During performance, the recorders as well as the chitarrone bravely kept
the secrets of the words ;)
-- 
Cheers,

Mathias
--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

It has to judged on a case by case basis. It would ludicrous to take JD's 
... down, down down fall, down, but arise I never shall! as a sign of 
erectyledisfunzione  (antispam spelling).
RT

 Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
  And, of course, Dowland's contemporaries would be quick to pick up the
  sexual double meanings in all the death references in other songs,
  though these are probably a bad choice for a modern hospital room.
  HP
 Wholesale transfering the piccola morte notion from Italian into 
 English
 is not a useful idea...

 but it was done then! For the service on last Sunday before Xmas, the
 recorder band and me prepared an Elisabethan song with lyrics dealing
 with a Dying Swan. Despite of the textual melancoly, the music was in
 triple time and merry F major. No way of playing it slowly. It was
 obvious the text had a double meaning, alluding to la petite mort.
 During performance, the recorders as well as the chitarrone bravely kept
 the secrets of the words ;)
 -- 
 Cheers,

 Mathias
 --

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Howard Posner]

I'm not sure why Roman thinks little death is an Italian concept.  
English literature through most of the 17th century is rife with it.

 It has to judged on a case by case basis.

Of course.

 It would ludicrous to take JD's
 ... down, down down fall, down, but arise I never shall! as a sign of
 erectyledisfunzione  (antispam spelling).

But Sorrow, Stay does not mention death:

   Sorrow stay, lend true repentant teares,
   To a woefull wretched wight,
   Hence dispair with thy tormenting feares:
   O doe not my poor heart affright,
   Pitty, help now or neuer,
   Mark me not to endlesse paine,
   Alas I am condemned euer,
   No hope, no help there doth remain,
   But down, down, down, down I fall,
   Down and arise I never shall.

--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

 I'm not sure why Roman thinks little death is an Italian concept.
 English literature through most of the 17th century is rife with it.
It certainly originated in Italy, as most good things do.


 It has to judged on a case by case basis.

 Of course.
And that is my point, to avoid blancket statements that amounted to every 
time death is mentioned it referred to that copulatory objective.
RT


 It would ludicrous to take JD's
 ... down, down down fall, down, but arise I never shall! as a sign of
 erectyledisfunzione  (antispam spelling).

 But Sorrow, Stay does not mention death:

   Sorrow stay, lend true repentant teares,
   To a woefull wretched wight,
   Hence dispair with thy tormenting feares:
   O doe not my poor heart affright,
   Pitty, help now or neuer,
   Mark me not to endlesse paine,
   Alas I am condemned euer,
   No hope, no help there doth remain,
   But down, down, down, down I fall,
   Down and arise I never shall.

 --

 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

 




___
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Rastall]

On Wednesday, January 4, 2006, at 02:25 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

 And that is my point, to avoid blancket statements that amounted to 
 every
 time death is mentioned it referred to that copulatory objective.

I've heard it called by many names, but that's a new one!

DR



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[LGS-Europe]

 Actually a friend of mine's wife was in the hospital and he played  
 Dowland songs for here everyday.

Yes: Die not before thy day.

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

David



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Eric Crouch]

I guess this is a bit OT as far as the lute goes, but I guess this  
discussion is running into problems of definition.
My understanding of using music in the operating room is that it  
relaxes the surgeon and helps him/her focus on doing the operation  
right. Similarly it is possible to relax the patient in circumstances  
where (s)he is awake and this would help the treatment (eg in the  
dentist's chair).

Neither of these would come within the British usage of 'Music  
Therapy', though the second one might come within the US usage, which  
is broader, viz:

What is music therapy?

1) Definition from British Society for Music Therapy

There are different approaches to the use of music in therapy.   
Depending upon the needs of the client and the orientation of the  
therapist, different aspects of the work may be emphasised.   
Fundamental to all approaches, however, is the development of a  
relationship between the client and the therapist.  Music-making  
forms the basis for communication in this relationship.

As a general rule both client and therapist take an active part in  
the sessions by playing, singing and listening.  The therapist does  
not teach the client to sing or play an instrument.  Rather, clients  
are encouraged to use accessible percussion and ethnic instruments  
and their own voices to explore the world of sound and to create a  
musical language of their own.  By responding musically, the  
therapist is able to support and encourage this process.

The music played covers a wide range of styles in order to complement  
the individual needs of each client.  Much of the music is  
improvised, thus enhancing the individual nature of each  
relationship.  Through whatever form the therapy takes, the therapist  
aims to facilitate positive changes in behaviour and emotional well- 
being.  He or she also aims to help the client to develop an  
increased sense of self-awareness, and thereby to enhance his or her  
quality of life.  The process may take place in individual or group  
music therapy sessions.

2) Definition from American Music Therapy Association

Music Therapy is an established healthcare profession that uses music  
to address physical, emotional, cognitive, and social needs of  
individuals of all ages.  Music therapy improves the quality of life  
for persons who are well and meets the needs of children and adults  
with disabilities or illnesses.  Music therapy interventions can be  
designed to:

promote wellness
manage stress
alleviate pain
express feelings
enhance memory
improve communication
promote physical rehabilitation.
(adapted from the two society web sites).

Another potentially interesting use of music is reflected in research  
from a music teacher in this country (UK) which purported to show  
that playing Mozart to school pupils increased their capacity to  
learn. Presumably lute fantasies would have an even stronger effect :-)

Eric Crouch


On 3 Jan 2006, at 05:35, Daniel F Heiman wrote:

 Charles:

 1) One of my friends, a violin player, does a weekly music therapy
 session at the local Veterans' Hospital for soldiers who are having a
 difficult time readjusting to civilian life after combat experience in
 the Middle East.  I asked him about the format, and he replied that he
 usually just takes requests and plays by ear.  The vast majority of  
 the
 requests are for pop music from the last couple of decades.  For that
 context and mode of operating, it would seem that a guitar would be
 preferable to a lute.

 2)  I am having difficulty understanding the function of the music  
 in a
 operating room/theater.  I was under the impression that the  
 patient is
 normally quite unconscious while undergoing the surgery.  It makes  
 much
 more sense to me for chemotherapy or radiation therapy sessions.

 Daniel Heiman

 On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 20:29:39 - Charles Browne
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 A Happy New Year to all!
 There was an article in one of the UK national newspapers recently
 about
 Harpists being 'employed' in operating theatres and in Chemotherapy
 Units to
 help reduce tension and anxiety in patients. I followed this up by
 looking at
 various links to formal Music Therapy and I gather that the Harp,
 among other
 instruments, is often used because of its particular properties. I
 wondered
 whether the lute would be similarly useful. Has anybody on the list
 experience
 of this?
 best wishes
 Charles




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html






--

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Daniel Shoskes]

On Jan 3, 2006, at 4:09 AM, Eric Crouch wrote:
 I guess this is a bit OT as far as the lute goes, but I guess this
 discussion is running into problems of definition.
 My understanding of using music in the operating room is that it
 relaxes the surgeon and helps him/her focus on doing the operation
 right.

95% of the time the music in the operating room is some type of rock  
or pop. It helps pass the time for others in the OR (anesthesia,  
nurses) but I find it a distraction that raises the general noise  
level and reduces concentration. When it's radio, it annoys the hell  
out of me because there usually are commercials. I have brought lute  
and other classical CD's in to listen during surgery, but I have  
mostly given up. For difficult procedures, I always insist on no  
music (which doesn't make me popular!). Mike Peterson has brought  
lute music in to surgery with him with more success, but I don't know  
if he still does it.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Craig Allen]

Ed wrote:

Actually a friend of mine's wife was in the hospital and he played  
Dowland songs for here everyday.

Um, given how depressing so much of Dowland is (or as Ellen Hargis put it, all 
melancholy, all the time), wouldn't that be counterproductive? :)

Happy New Year,
Craig



___
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Mathias Rösel]

As a pastor, I sometimes take a lute with me for visits in hospitals,
provided I'm not aware of hostility of the particular person towards
music.

When entering the room, I put the case down at the wall and leave it
shut until it is mentioned by the ill person. Only then shall I offer to
open the case and play. It has become known in my congregation, though,
that I play the lute, which has raised certain expectations :)

My first experience was total silence in the room after a few measures.
When I looked up, I saw the woman was crying and I immediately started
apologizing, but she wouldn't let me say it and insisted that I went on
playing.

In hospital rooms, there is usually no carpet on the floor. To my own
listening, this has a strongly enhancing and brightening effect on the
sound. You may play as slowly and with a low voice as you will,
everything will be heard.

By now, I prefer to take the baroque lute with some easy Weiss pieces
prepared. Haven't yet found appropiate renaissance lute music. Italian
and German intabulations did work so far, but Weiss did better, as far
as I can tell.
-- 
All the best,

Mathias
--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

Any such experience would probably vary somewhat from state to state, but I 
doubt there would be much musicality in a Texas cop
RT


From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 A musician, having exclusive control of a room's sound for an extended
 period of time, wields a great deal of authority in a real sense.
 In this connection I often admire police officers (also wielders of
 authority) for what they call professionism,  The Austin Police
 Department has a program in which citizens attend a series of
 lectures and then spend an evening on patrol with a real police
 officer.  I sometimes wonder whether this might not be a musically
 worthwhile experience.




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Herbert Ward]

On Tue, 3 Jan 2006, Roman Turovsky wrote:
 Any such experience would probably vary somewhat from state to state, but I 
 doubt there would be much musicality in a Texas cop

Thanks for the sympathy.  Fortunately for me, Austin is quite liberal 
compared to the rest of Texas.



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Charles Browne]

surely they would keep to the beat?





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

I'm not too keen on madrigals using yeehaw instead of tralala.
RT

 surely they would keep to the beat?
 
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Tony Chalkley]

A blow to the head can sometimes produce a remarkable resonance...


- Original Message - 
From: Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2006 9:11 PM
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Music Therapy


 Any such experience would probably vary somewhat from state to state, but 
 I
 doubt there would be much musicality in a Texas cop
 RT


 From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 A musician, having exclusive control of a room's sound for an extended
 period of time, wields a great deal of authority in a real sense.
 In this connection I often admire police officers (also wielders of
 authority) for what they call professionism,  The Austin Police
 Department has a program in which citizens attend a series of
 lectures and then spend an evening on patrol with a real police
 officer.  I sometimes wonder whether this might not be a musically
 worthwhile experience.




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 ---
 Wanadoo vous informe que cet  e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail.
 Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.


 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

A simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will produce 
heterophony,
and...
An almost simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will 
produce
imitative counterpoint.
RT

From: Tony Chalkley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A blow to the head can sometimes produce a remarkable resonance...

 Any such experience would probably vary somewhat from state to state, but
 I
 doubt there would be much musicality in a Texas cop
 RT


 From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 A musician, having exclusive control of a room's sound for an extended
 period of time, wields a great deal of authority in a real sense.
 In this connection I often admire police officers (also wielders of
 authority) for what they call professionism,  The Austin Police
 Department has a program in which citizens attend a series of
 lectures and then spend an evening on patrol with a real police
 officer.  I sometimes wonder whether this might not be a musically
 worthwhile experience.




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 ---
 Wanadoo vous informe que cet  e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus 
 mail.
 Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.







 




___
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Daniel Shoskes]

 And lower blows could produce 20 Ways Upon the Balls?

 (after which the perp is lying on the Ground) 

(in a first inversion)

And of course, HIP police always aim for the Gut.

DS

On Tuesday, January 03, 2006, at 05:13PM, Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

A simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will produce 
heterophony,
and...
An almost simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will 
produce
imitative counterpoint.
RT




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

 And lower blows could produce 20 Ways Upon the Balls?
  (after which the perp is lying on the Ground)
This definitely precludes any possibility well-articulated When I am laid, 
regardless of its form.




 (in a first inversion)

 And of course, HIP police always aim for the Gut.
That is until HIP replacement.
RT






 DS

 On Tuesday, January 03, 2006, at 05:13PM, Roman Turovsky 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

A simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will produce
heterophony,
and...
An almost simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will
produce
imitative counterpoint.
RT




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Rastall]

Many thanks to those who helped me track down Thomas Campion.

As for this discussion below, it's sick.  I thought perhaps I had 
missed something being off the list for nearly a year, but if this is 
what passes for sparkling repartee on the lute list these days, then 
adios muchachos!

DR



On Tuesday, January 3, 2006, at 05:26 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

  And lower blows could produce 20 Ways Upon the Balls?

  (after which the perp is lying on the Ground)

 (in a first inversion)

 And of course, HIP police always aim for the Gut.

 DS

 On Tuesday, January 03, 2006, at 05:13PM, Roman Turovsky 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will 
 produce
 heterophony,
 and...
 An almost simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals 
 will
 produce
 imitative counterpoint.
 RT




 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Edward Martin]

Ouch!!

ed

At 05:26 PM 1/3/2006 -0500, Daniel Shoskes wrote:
  And lower blows could produce 20 Ways Upon the Balls?

  (after which the perp is lying on the Ground)

(in a first inversion)

And of course, HIP police always aim for the Gut.

DS

On Tuesday, January 03, 2006, at 05:13PM, Roman Turovsky 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will produce
 heterophony,
 and...
 An almost simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will
 produce
 imitative counterpoint.
 RT
 



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



Edward Martin
2817 East 2nd Street
Duluth, Minnesota  55812
e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
voice:  (218) 728-1202

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Roman Turovsky]

But in your case it wasn't like the Birth of Music scene in Mel Brooks' 
History of the World: Part I.
As to injuries, I've had a few myself
RT


 On my bicycle, I had a blow that definitely affected many body parts.

 ed

 At 05:11 PM 1/3/2006 -0500, you wrote:
A simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will produce
heterophony,
and...
An almost simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will
produce
imitative counterpoint.
RT

From: Tony Chalkley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 A blow to the head can sometimes produce a remarkable resonance...
 
  Any such experience would probably vary somewhat from state to state, 
  but
  I
  doubt there would be much musicality in a Texas 
  cop
  RT
 
 
  From: Herbert Ward [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  A musician, having exclusive control of a room's sound for an 
  extended
  period of time, wields a great deal of authority in a real sense.
  In this connection I often admire police officers (also wielders of
  authority) for what they call professionism,  The Austin Police
  Department has a program in which citizens attend a series of
  lectures and then spend an evening on patrol with a real police
  officer.  I sometimes wonder whether this might not be a musically
  worthwhile experience.
 
 
 
 
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 ---
  Wanadoo vous informe que cet  e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus
  mail.
  Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 




___
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com



 Edward Martin
 2817 East 2nd Street
 Duluth, Minnesota  55812
 e-mail:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 voice:  (218) 728-1202



 




___
$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer
10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more.
Signup at www.doteasy.com

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[David Cassetti]

   David,
   This is rather unusual for the lute list, but I have to admit it's one of
   the few times anything on the lute list made me laugh so much.
   Sorry, no offense,
   David
   David Rastall wrote:

Many thanks to those who helped me track down Thomas Campion.

As for this discussion below, it's sick.  I thought perhaps I had
missed something being off the list for nearly a year, but if this is
what passes for sparkling repartee on the lute list these days, then
adios muchachos!

DR



On Tuesday, January 3, 2006, at 05:26 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

  

 And lower blows could produce 20 Ways Upon the Balls?

 (after which the perp is lying on the Ground)

(in a first inversion)

And of course, HIP police always aim for the Gut.

DS

On Tuesday, January 03, 2006, at 05:13PM, Roman Turovsky
[1][EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



A simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals will
produce
heterophony,
and...
An almost simultaneous blow to bodyparts of 2 separate individuals
will
produce
imitative counterpoint.
RT




To get on or off this list see list information at
[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

   1. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Daniel F Heiman]

Charles:

1) One of my friends, a violin player, does a weekly music therapy
session at the local Veterans' Hospital for soldiers who are having a
difficult time readjusting to civilian life after combat experience in
the Middle East.  I asked him about the format, and he replied that he
usually just takes requests and plays by ear.  The vast majority of the
requests are for pop music from the last couple of decades.  For that
context and mode of operating, it would seem that a guitar would be
preferable to a lute.

2)  I am having difficulty understanding the function of the music in a
operating room/theater.  I was under the impression that the patient is
normally quite unconscious while undergoing the surgery.  It makes much
more sense to me for chemotherapy or radiation therapy sessions.

Daniel Heiman

On Mon, 2 Jan 2006 20:29:39 - Charles Browne
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 A Happy New Year to all!
 There was an article in one of the UK national newspapers recently 
 about
 Harpists being 'employed' in operating theatres and in Chemotherapy 
 Units to
 help reduce tension and anxiety in patients. I followed this up by 
 looking at
 various links to formal Music Therapy and I gather that the Harp, 
 among other
 instruments, is often used because of its particular properties. I 
 wondered
 whether the lute would be similarly useful. Has anybody on the list 
 experience
 of this?
 best wishes
 Charles
 
 
 
 
 To get on or off this list see list information at
 http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
 

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Ed Durbrow]

It heals me.

On Jan 3, 2006, at 5:29 AM, Charles Browne wrote:

 I gather that the Harp, among other
 instruments, is often used because of its particular properties. I  
 wondered
 whether the lute would be similarly useful. Has anybody on the list  
 experience
 of this?

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/



--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[lautenist]

It depends on who is playing :-)

But seriously I never heard the lute would be used in that context. Although it 
could be very smoothing ...

Happy new year to all of you
Thomas


It heals me.

On Jan 3, 2006, at 5:29 AM, Charles Browne wrote:

 I gather that the Harp, among other
 instruments, is often used because of its particular properties. I  
 wondered
 whether the lute would be similarly useful. Has anybody on the list  
 experience
 of this?




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Music Therapy

[Ed Durbrow]

Actually a friend of mine's wife was in the hospital and he played  
Dowland songs for here everyday.

On Jan 3, 2006, at 4:38 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 But seriously I never heard the lute would be used in that context.  
 Although it could be very smoothing ...

Ed Durbrow
Saitama, Japan
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www9.plala.or.jp/edurbrow/



--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html