subject:"Re\: New commercial sponsorship"


On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Christian Ridderström wrote:

On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Waluyo Adi Siswanto wrote:



Well maybe the LyX web site is quite popular who knows? :-)
Actually, we don't even know if LyX users count in the thousands,
hundreds of thousand or millions...



http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/LyXGeography


Not sure if i did something that mattered, but now uploads work.


not your fault, everything was stored in ~sanda


If you upload the file to the wiki (perhaps to
/Devel/LyXGeography/access2008/

the relevant wiki markup might be something like this:

[[uploads:/Devel/LyXGeography/access2008/apachemap.html|uploads:/Devel/LyXGeography/access2008/overview.jpg]]

/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-31 Thread Pavel Sanda

Christian Ridderström wrote:
> On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Pavel Sanda wrote:
>
>> Waluyo Adi Siswanto wrote:
>>>
 Well maybe the LyX web site is quite popular who knows? :-)
 Actually, we don't even know if LyX users count in the thousands,
 hundreds of thousand or millions...

>>
>> http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/LyXGeography
>
> Not sure if i did something that mattered, but now uploads work.

not your fault, everything was stored in ~sanda
pavel

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Waluyo Adi Siswanto wrote:



Well maybe the LyX web site is quite popular who knows? :-)
Actually, we don't even know if LyX users count in the thousands,
hundreds of thousand or millions...



http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/LyXGeography


Not sure if i did something that mattered, but now uploads work.

I've created a directory

uploads/Devel/LyXGeography

to which you can upload the pictures. Then you can change the links in the 
wiki page to point to e.g.:


uploads:/Devel/LyXGeograph/pic.png

cheers
/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship

Oops... uploads don't seem to be working. Guess that'll be the next thing 
I have to look at.


/C



http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/LyXGeography


Yes it is popular, have a look here:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/lyx.org

Lyx.org has a traffic rank of:  168,508


but this is access of alexa archive, not access of lyx.org, right?
pavel




--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On Tue, 31 Mar 2009, Pavel Sanda wrote:


Waluyo Adi Siswanto wrote:



Well maybe the LyX web site is quite popular who knows? :-)
Actually, we don't even know if LyX users count in the thousands,
hundreds of thousand or millions...



http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/LyXGeography


Can you login to aussi.lyx.org, and then upload these pictures to the 
wiki's uploads section?


(The page is currently incomplete as it's missing the pictures).

/Christian




Yes it is popular, have a look here:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/lyx.org

Lyx.org has a traffic rank of:  168,508


but this is access of alexa archive, not access of lyx.org, right?
pavel




--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-31 Thread Pavel Sanda

Waluyo Adi Siswanto wrote:
> 
> > Well maybe the LyX web site is quite popular who knows? :-)
> > Actually, we don't even know if LyX users count in the thousands, 
> > hundreds of thousand or millions...
> > 

http://wiki.lyx.org/Devel/LyXGeography

> Yes it is popular, have a look here:
> http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/lyx.org
> 
> Lyx.org has a traffic rank of:  168,508

but this is access of alexa archive, not access of lyx.org, right?
pavel

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-31 Thread Helge Hafting


Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:

> That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the
years thanks to your paypal


account and we know basically _nothing_ about it ;-)

This is an important issue. We for example had to pay all costs for our
last developer meeting on our own but the general LyX donations are exactly
for that purpose in my opinion. Moreover are the people who sponsor us still
not listed at our webpage while this is the case on Abdel's page and one of
the reasons for Abdel's success.



The people that sponsor abdel is listed at the page.
We had a rule earlier that if you wanted to be listed you had to say so in
your donation message.

I was in contact with Andre regarding cost for the last meeting: the
response was largely: don't sweat it.



So Lars, I several times asked you to communicate to us developers (private
mail) what money we got the last years at our general LyX paypal account
that you own.



I have replied, but perhaps not to you.

But you never haven't replied. But this info is needed for example to plan

our next meeting so that developers can for example be payed a part of the
flights, beer, food, etc.



We have never payed for transportation earlier, and I can ensure you that
that will be a way to depleate all resources in a jiffy. All expences while
at location has been payed though, except for berlin.



When you don't want to make this public to all developers, then at least
some of the developers should know this. Currently even not JMarc and José
knows it, right?



They know a bit I guess... there is a stead trickle of money being
donated... f.ex. today I got 2 euro...



What Abdel has set up with his sponsor page is in my opinion how sponsoring
should work for a free OpenSource project: Transparent and encouraging for
potential sponsors as they know what they are sponsoring. And I don't think
it is important if they sponsor LyX in general or a certain developer when
he implements a special feature some sponsor would like to have.



(what if lyx does not want the feature?)


Could happen - in theory. A feature so controversial that it won't get 
in, not even "disabled by default" in preferences. In that case whoever 
took the money have failed their contract, and ought to give the money 
back. (Or possibly maintain a fork with the controversial feature - if 
doing so is worth the money.)


Plans for new features therefore ought to be discussed early, to avoid 
wasted work. That isn't special for paid projects.


I am not sure how realistic such a outcome is though. Features are 
usually optional. Those who don't like "online spellcheck" don't need to 
use it, for example. There could be a risk of some new developer getting 
paid for a feature, and then implement it poorly, buggy or with a 
hopeless coding style. If the developer can't get the project merged and 
is unwilling to fix it and won't return the money - we get a situation 
where the LyX project looks unreliable.





Actually I go out on the limb as usual and say that how Abdel has setup this
is almost exactly how I would _not_ have done it. (Speaking of sponsorship
for specific features.) IMHO too focused on specific persons/developers.


Idealism is fine, but it may be easier to get money this way. Someone 
who has money to spend, will often want to know exactly what they get 
back. They can see that they get a new feature, a feature that they want 
and deems "worth it".


Money spent on fixing "8 longstanding bugs" or a developer meeting may 
eventually result in real improvement of LyX, but you may not be able to 
sell this concept to those who want to buy visible features. Unless they 
know how software development works.


Helge Hafting

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-30 Thread Uwe Stöhr


Christian Ridderström schrieb:

Maybe it would be more constructive to discuss how we _would_ like 
things like this dealt with?


The only important point I have is that more than one developer should know about our finances 
(maybe only Lars and José, but more than one person). So just more transparency. Still now I only 
know that we got 2 Euros on Saturday ;-)


Or perhaps even more constructive, to discuss when/where the next LyX 
meeting should be held?


Let's wait a bit after the summer holiday plans are made.

regards Uwe

Re: New commercial sponsorship


Being outnumbered starts with having a wife...


And even sometimes with having a life.

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-30 Thread Christian Ridderström


On Mon, 30 Mar 2009, Andre Poenitz wrote:

I do not see why he deserves it. My wife is also pregnant and I do 
not boast about it on lyx-devel!



Maybe you should.


Well, it will be the third, so people are getting tired of always
hearing the same news ;)


Now you will be outnumbered.


Being outnumbered starts with having a wife...


Don't you mean outmanned?

SCNR

/Christian



--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-30 Thread Andre Poenitz

On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 06:04:26PM -0400, rgheck wrote:
> Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
>> Le 29 mars 09 à 23:02, rgheck a écrit :
 I do not see why he deserves it. My wife is also pregnant and I do  
 not boast about it
 on lyx-devel!

>>> Maybe you should.
>>
>> Well, it will be the third, so people are getting tired of always  
>> hearing the same news ;)
>>
> Now you will be outnumbered.

Being outnumbered starts with having a wife...

Andre'

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-30 Thread José Matos

On Sunday 29 March 2009 21:41:19 Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
> Indeed.
>
> JMarc

+1

And congratulations to both Abdel and Jean-Marc BTW. :-)

-- 
José Abílio

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-30 Thread Abdelrazak Younes


Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Abdelrazak Younes  writes:
  

Well, honestly, I don't think anybody doubted Lars' honesty. It was
just a problem of lack of information.



OK, I see that what I wrote looked like that. So I apologize to people
who think I misrepresented their thoughts. Nevertheless, I really think
that meeting face-to-face is a must.
  


Seconded. Now where and when?

Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship

Abdelrazak Younes  writes:
> Well, honestly, I don't think anybody doubted Lars' honesty. It was
> just a problem of lack of information.

OK, I see that what I wrote looked like that. So I apologize to people
who think I misrepresented their thoughts. Nevertheless, I really think
that meeting face-to-face is a must.

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-30 Thread Abdelrazak Younes


Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Christian Ridderström  writes:
  

It's our (collective) fault in Berlin for not taking more care with
the financial aspects, but that is probably what happens when you are
used to relying on Lars' to take care of this.



What I remember from Berlin was that it was a bit like if there were two
camps (among people interested by the subject, that is):

- those who knew Lars and thought "so what? he is probably doing the
  right thing with this money!"
- those who did not and thought "they are really naive to let him handle
  the money without control!"
  


Well, honestly, I don't think anybody doubted Lars' honesty. It was just 
a problem of lack of information.



Conclusion: everybody should be there at next meeting, including Lars.
  


There is a next meeting planned already? :-)

Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship

Christian Ridderström  writes:
> It's our (collective) fault in Berlin for not taking more care with
> the financial aspects, but that is probably what happens when you are
> used to relying on Lars' to take care of this.

What I remember from Berlin was that it was a bit like if there were two
camps (among people interested by the subject, that is):

- those who knew Lars and thought "so what? he is probably doing the
  right thing with this money!"
- those who did not and thought "they are really naive to let him handle
  the money without control!"

Conclusion: everybody should be there at next meeting, including Lars.

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-30 Thread Christian Ridderström


On Sun, 29 Mar 2009, Andre Poenitz wrote:

This is an important issue. We for example had to pay all costs for 
our last developer meeting on our own but the general LyX donations 
are exactly for that purpose in my opinion. Moreover are the people 
who sponsor us still not listed at our webpage while this is the case 
on Abdel's page and one of the reasons for Abdel's success.


Lars indeed approached me after the meeting and I did indeed no see a 
reason for immediate action (for me, personally).


The fact that Berlin costs have been handled... "unusually" ... can be 
blamed to a large part to my laziness.


From what I remember of Bromarv, some financial aspects were indeed 
discussed, and I believe LyX funds were used to pay for a dinner. Perhaps 
our hosts got compensated for (at least partially?) food/beer.


It's our (collective) fault in Berlin for not taking more care with the 
financial aspects, but that is probably what happens when you are used to 
relying on Lars' to take care of this.


Even so, I thought it was quite ok for me to pay for travel and some 
dining out, while André payed for beer and snacks. And Stephan and his 
wife contributed with housing and breakfast. So overall I think it was 
pretty fair, unless the beer/snacks was very expensive for André.


Maybe it would be more constructive to discuss how we _would_ like things 
like this dealt with?


Or perhaps even more constructive, to discuss when/where the next LyX 
meeting should be held?


cheers,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship

rgheck  writes:
>> Well, it will be the third, so people are getting tired of always
>> hearing the same news ;)
>>
> Now you will be outnumbered.

I did not say we are only two! (ok, you win: we are)

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-29 Thread rgheck


Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 29 mars 09 à 23:02, rgheck a écrit :
I do not see why he deserves it. My wife is also pregnant and I do 
not boast about it

on lyx-devel!


Maybe you should.


Well, it will be the third, so people are getting tired of always 
hearing the same news ;)



Now you will be outnumbered.

rh

Re: New commercial sponsorship


Le 29 mars 09 à 23:02, rgheck a écrit :
I do not see why he deserves it. My wife is also pregnant and I do  
not boast about it

on lyx-devel!


Maybe you should.


Well, it will be the third, so people are getting tired of always  
hearing the same news ;)


JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-29 Thread rgheck


Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

Le 28 mars 09 à 20:37, Christian Ridderström a écrit :

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 What's your excuse? ;-)


I am a family man and my wife is pregnant :-)


Congratulations!



I do not see why he deserves it. My wife is also pregnant and I do not 
boast about it

on lyx-devel!


Maybe you should.

Congratulations! On the joyous (I assume) fact that you, and your wife, 
are expecting a child.


rh

Re: New commercial sponsorship


Le 28 mars 09 à 20:37, Christian Ridderström a écrit :

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 What's your excuse? ;-)


I am a family man and my wife is pregnant :-)


Congratulations!



I do not see why he deserves it. My wife is also pregnant and I do  
not boast about it

on lyx-devel!

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

Concerning transportation: We usually meet in Europe. Europeans can  
by cheap flights for even 100 € two ways.
But when Richard and Bo want to join use, they cannot buy such  
cheap flights, so when we have 300 € for
transportation I think it is fair to give them the money. (Just a  
thought.)


I am not sure whether this has been done in practice, but I remember  
of cases were we proposed to sponsor people
who could not come (just in case the reason is money). So the general  
rule is "no transportation" but rules can be

adapted depending on what money is available.

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship


Le 29 mars 09 à 03:27, Edwin Leuven a écrit :
you can already be proud of yourself, the speed and competence with  
which you have made yourself

familiar with lyx internals is impressive.


Indeed.

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-29 Thread rgheck


Andre Poenitz wrote:

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 10:37:14AM -0400, rgheck wrote:
  
This seems complicated, and it seems worth making some distinctions. One  
case would be where RedHat wanted to sponsor something. To them, LyX is  
part of their product. Another would be if Trolltech wanted to do so.  
(Of course, they did, by giving us server space.) To them, LyX is the  
best application ever written with Qt (!) and so great advertising for  
their product.



Not sure about this. Where did you get that statement from?

  
Sorry if it wasn't obvious that I was jesting. The (!) that was meant to 
indicate that.


rh

Re: New commercial sponsorship

>What we (as a community) want to see in exchange is a new, major  
and well

>written feature be added to LyX. This is then a fair exchange IMHO.

But it is not a given that we will get that :-)


Indeed. Now the (moral) contract is between Abdel and the rest of the  
team :)


JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-29 Thread Abdelrazak Younes


On 29/03/2009 17:43, Andre Poenitz wrote:

I think the sponsorship as such is ok, and your handling of the issue
is ok, and covered by the results of the last discussion of the topic.
   


Good, thanks for your support.

Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 08:07:52PM +0100, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:
> > That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the
> years thanks to your paypal
> 
> > > account and we know basically _nothing_ about it ;-)
> >
> > This is an important issue. We for example had to pay all costs for our
> > last developer meeting on our own but the general LyX donations are exactly
> > for that purpose in my opinion. Moreover are the people who sponsor us still
> > not listed at our webpage while this is the case on Abdel's page and one of
> > the reasons for Abdel's success.
> >
> 
> The people that sponsor abdel is listed at the page.
> We had a rule earlier that if you wanted to be listed you had to say so in
> your donation message.
> 
> I was in contact with Andre regarding cost for the last meeting: the
> response was largely: don't sweat it.

Lars indeed approached me after the meeting and I did indeed no see a
reason for immediate action (for me, personally).

The fact that Berlin costs have been handled... "unusually" ... can be
blamed to a large part to my laziness. In the beginning I assumed that
Lars would turn up and wave the magic credit card as usual. When it was
clear that he wouldn't and later become I simply did not bother do
establish a credit line, pay everything, and settle it afterwards for all.

Andre'

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 07:56:45PM +0100, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:
> On 28/03/2009 19:40, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
>> >> As it stands now it seems that _you_ have got sponsorship to do  
>> work on lyx, that
>> >> place some requirements on the LyX Project.
>> >
>> > Well, I am part of the LyX project and I created this page so maybe.  
>> I did all of this as openly
>> > as possible but I should have have asked for permission for the 3  
>> years citations, I agree.
>>
>> 3 years for 700 € is quite nothing. Real market prices for advertising  
>> are much higher. But its a start. When we have some sponsors, others  
>> will perhaps follow.
>
> Yeah, I completely agree. But in these days of crisis, I thought it was  
> quite good to be offered anything :-)

I think the sponsorship as such is ok, and your handling of the issue
is ok, and covered by the results of the last discussion of the topic.

If not, I mis-interpreted the outcom of that discussion, too.

Andre'

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-29 Thread Abdelrazak Younes


On 28/03/2009 21:25, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:
More seriously, the money is all yours if you implement the feature. 
I'll add your name in the table now if you want.


Sign me up...


You're in. I've let my name for the time being because that's my paypal 
account and I'd like to follow what you do anyway ;-). Whenever/If you 
create a paypal account, please change the paypal link and I will 
transfer the money to your account.


Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 08:10:35PM +0100, Christian Ridderström wrote:
> On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:
>
>>>  Lyx.org has a traffic rank of:  168,508
>>>
>>>  The LyX Users:
>>>  United States16.2%
>>>  Germany13.5%
>>>  Sweden6.9%
>
> Man, I must have spent a lot of time on the lyx site... ;-)
>
> Seriously though, I didn't know there are that many Swedish users?

Most are probably misguided by the Swedish meaning of "lyx" ;-}

OTOH, those are probably in the position to donate a Euro or two...

Andre'

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 10:37:14AM -0400, rgheck wrote:
> This seems complicated, and it seems worth making some distinctions. One  
> case would be where RedHat wanted to sponsor something. To them, LyX is  
> part of their product. Another would be if Trolltech wanted to do so.  
> (Of course, they did, by giving us server space.) To them, LyX is the  
> best application ever written with Qt (!) and so great advertising for  
> their product.

Not sure about this. Where did you get that statement from?

I personally would certainly not agree.

Andre'

RE: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Edwin Leuven

> vincent wrote:
>> Abdelrazak Younes schreef:
>> if anybody is interested in the doc comparison task, I'll gladly gives the 
>> money.
>
> Yes, I would really like to step in right now and indeed I've been
> thinking about it for a while. Besides, the bugs are running out anyway.
> It would also be nice if I could construct a somewhat larger feature to
> have something to be proud of.

you can already be proud of yourself, the speed and competence with which you 
have made yourself familiar with lyx internals is impressive.

and i am sure your fanbase will increase exponentially if you can integrate doc 
comparison with svn.

ed.

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn





I accepted the inline spellchecker task but if anybody is interested 
in the doc comparison task, I'll gladly gives the money. I know that 
Vincent has started to think about it already. If I manage to have 
some free time in the coming month, I would for sure try to 
implement the feature.
Yes, I would really like to step in right now and indeed I've been 
thinking about it for a while. Besides, the bugs are running out 
anyway. It would also be nice if I could construct a somewhat larger 
feature to have something to be proud of.


Oh, I am already proud of you my boy :-)

.. :-)


More seriously, the money is all yours if you implement the feature. 
I'll add your name in the table now if you want.

Sign me up...


Abdel.


Vincent

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Uwe Stöhr

Lars Gullik Bjønnes schrieb:

The people that sponsor abdel is listed at the page.
We had a rule earlier that if you wanted to be listed you had to say so in
your donation message.

Are potential sponsors informed about this before they send their donation? I'm wondering that
nobody did this until now.

I was in contact with Andre regarding cost for the last meeting: the
response was largely: don't sweat it.

Interesting. But some had to pay flight and/or trains.

So Lars, I several times asked you to communicate to us developers (private
mail) what money we got the last years at our general LyX paypal account
that you own.

I have replied, but perhaps not to you.

Not on the list or I have missed it? and not in a mail to us developers. Can
you do this please now?

We have never payed for transportation earlier, and I can ensure you that
that will be a way to depleate all resources in a jiffy.

That's why we developers should know what money we have and what we usually got
per month/year.
From your comment it seems not be too much, but how much money exactly? It would be of interest to
know an estimated income per month seen over a year and for example if it in creased after a new
major release. Of course it is not needed to communicate every single payment we got.

Concerning transportation: We usually meet in Europe. Europeans can by cheap flights for even 100 €
two ways. But when Richard and Bo want to join use, they cannot buy such cheap flights, so when we
have 300 € for transportation I think it is fair to give them the money. (Just a thought.)

They know a bit I guess...

We had this topic in Berlin and this time nobody know anything.

there is a stead trickle of money being
donated... f.ex. today I got 2 euro...

I mean 60 € per month is better than nothing. This would be 700 € per year and enough to buy e.g.
server hardware and to spend some money when an oversea developer wants to join our meeting.

What Abdel has set up with his sponsor page is in my opinion how sponsoring
should work for a free OpenSource project: Transparent and encouraging for
potential sponsors as they know what they are sponsoring. And I don't think
it is important if they sponsor LyX in general or a certain developer when
he implements a special feature some sponsor would like to have.

(what if lyx does not want the feature?)

Was a joke? Several users donated to this project, so of course it is then useful for the users and
we are working to provide a useful program.
Before Abdel set up his page we agreed to the two projects/features. And the ideas came from the
users list where people again and again asked for the same feature.
Every developer can offer to be sponsored to implement a certain feature and I very much like this
possibility. Some projects are very time intensive and therefore not yet done, so when a developer
decides to spend several weeks (to be extreme) to implement a feature why shouldn't he get some
sponsorship? In my opinion is this the same as Google does with its summer of code project.
When Abdel don't need the money or needs less time than expected he can (and I think he will) spend
the monex to the general LyX funding.

Actually I go out on the limb as usual and say that how Abdel has setup this
is almost exactly how I would _not_ have done it. (Speaking of sponsorship
for specific features.) IMHO too focused on specific persons/developers.

Abdel's sponsor project is the result of many discussions, at the devel list but also on the users
list. It turned out that users like this way of sponsoring as they could decide what to sponsor.

regards Uwe

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 20:24, Christian Ridderström wrote:

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 And once upon a time it bought us aussie.


Well, all these details are in your memories, not a very transparent 
process :-) Not that I care much really but I am trying personally to 
do things as transparently as possible.


It's not easy doing things transparently. I for instance, haven't got 
a clue about how you deal with the paypal stuff.


Hum, well, when I receive money, I update the page. I can publish the 
paypal logs somewhere I guess but that has to be private to the LyX 
developers as you told me that I shouldn't publicize who's given what ;-)
I can also give my PayPal password to some of you but as this contains 
my credit card information, I obviously cannot give that information to 
everybody :-)
At the end everything is about trust. I trust Lars with his management 
of the LyX paypal account but I would like to know what is the balance, 
maybe every month or so. Could you do that please Lars?


I'm definitely not blaming you for that, just saying it's difficult to 
spread that kind of information. Especially as you at the same time 
want to keep it confidential who contributed how much and so forth. 
Heck, I guess we don't even know the legal status of 'LyX'! What is it?


There's nothing like a legal status of LyX.
I think a great contribution for a company would be to manage paypal 
accounts, legal registration of an LyX association somewhere in France, 
Germany or whatever. This paypal management is taking maybe half an hour 
each week, nothing major but when we get a lot more contribution I can't 
do that all by myself. That's why I would like developers to be 
proactive and to publish some projects on their own using their own 
paypal account.


Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 What's your excuse? ;-)


I am a family man and my wife is pregnant :-)


Congratulations!

sincere regards
/Christian

PS.

I am so impressed by all developers that make babies, since I know you do 
this to increase the number of LyX users!  I also think it's fine you 
haven't told your partners of this being the reason, they really are 
better of not knowing...


Oh, if any wives/girlfriends/significant others happen to read this list, 
the above is a joke. Of course.


--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 20:18, Christian Ridderström wrote:

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 It wasn't clear to me at least. By now I infer they're sponsoring a
 certain feature. I would like more details on how they are to be cited
 for it?


Well exactly as I did?

I guess I don't understand what's not clear...


Maybe I could figure it out if I wasn't temporarily unable to use a 
browser[*] and follow your link...


Anyway, it sounds like we're talking about putting a link on the 
donations web page.


But what the heck are so many of us sitting and debating this on a 
Saturday evening? I'd be at a party now with pretty girls if I hadn't 
got a stupid stomach bug just before going back from Brasil.


Yeah, considering the alternative I don't understand why you choose to 
discuss with us :-)




What's your excuse? ;-)


I am a family man and my wife is pregnant :-)

Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On 28/03/2009 20:07, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:

> That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the 
years thanks to your paypal

> account and we know basically _nothing_ about it ;-)

This is an important issue. We for example had to pay all costs
for our last developer meeting on our own but the general LyX
donations are exactly for that purpose in my opinion. Moreover are
the people who sponsor us still not listed at our webpage while
this is the case on Abdel's page and one of the reasons for
Abdel's success.

The people that sponsor abdel is listed at the page.
We had a rule earlier that if you wanted to be listed you had to say 
so in your donation message.

I was in contact with Andre regarding cost for the last meeting: the 
response was largely: don't sweat it.

So Lars, I several times asked you to communicate to us developers
(private mail) what money we got the last years at our general LyX
paypal account that you own.

I have replied, but perhaps not to you.

But you never haven't replied. But this info is needed for example
to plan our next meeting so that developers can for example be
payed a part of the flights, beer, food, etc.

We have never payed for transportation earlier, and I can ensure you 
that that will be a way to depleate all resources in a jiffy. All 
expences while at location has been payed though, except for berlin.

When you don't want to make this public to all developers, then at
least some of the developers should know this. Currently even not
JMarc and José knows it, right?

They know a bit I guess... there is a stead trickle of money being 
donated... f.ex. today I got 2 euro...

What Abdel has set up with his sponsor page is in my opinion how
sponsoring should work for a free OpenSource project: Transparent
and encouraging for potential sponsors as they know what they are
sponsoring. And I don't think it is important if they sponsor LyX
in general or a certain developer when he implements a special
feature some sponsor would like to have.

(what if lyx does not want the feature?)

Who is lyx? We are individuals doing what we want.

Actually I go out on the limb as usual and say that how Abdel has 
setup this is almost exactly how I would _not_ have done it. (Speaking 
of sponsorship for specific features.) IMHO too focused on specific 
persons/developers.

Well, too bad that's how I've done it and nobody objected at the time...

Just for clarification:

 If that was not clear, I am not doing that for earning money. Those 
1000 euros are not going to pay for the time I already spent on the 
continuous spellchecker for example. I put in place this project page so 
that developers can have some kind of formal aknowledgement from the 
users. And I immensely appreciate all the people that have given money. 
It felt really really good. I'd like other LyX developers to feel the same.

Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 And once upon a time it bought us aussie.


Well, all these details are in your memories, not a very transparent 
process :-) Not that I care much really but I am trying personally to do 
things as transparently as possible.


It's not easy doing things transparently. I for instance, haven't got a 
clue about how you deal with the paypal stuff. I'm definitely not blaming 
you for that, just saying it's difficult to spread that kind of 
information. Especially as you at the same time want to keep it 
confidential who contributed how much and so forth. Heck, I guess we don't 
even know the legal status of 'LyX'! What is it?


These are certainly important questions and I think we should talk about 
them, but please let's not bother Lars' with this stuff right now...


He's working on the server which I find much more important. Instead, take 
this opportunity to see if you've "left anything behind" on aussie...


Maybe we can save discussions for the coming Friday?

cheers,
/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 It wasn't clear to me at least. By now I infer they're sponsoring a
 certain feature. I would like more details on how they are to be cited
 for it?


Well exactly as I did?

I guess I don't understand what's not clear...


Maybe I could figure it out if I wasn't temporarily unable to use a 
browser[*] and follow your link...


Anyway, it sounds like we're talking about putting a link on the donations 
web page.


But what the heck are so many of us sitting and debating this on a 
Saturday evening? I'd be at a party now with pretty girls if I hadn't got 
a stupid stomach bug just before going back from Brasil.


What's your excuse? ;-)

/Christian

[*] It's complicated...

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 Lyx.org has a traffic rank of:  168,508

 The LyX Users:
 United States16.2%
 Germany13.5%
 Sweden6.9%


Man, I must have spent a lot of time on the lyx site... ;-)

Seriously though, I didn't know there are that many Swedish users?

/C

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 20:05, Christian Ridderström wrote:

On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 That said, I do not think this is a bad thing, but I'd like to know
 that the sponsorhip is for, special procjetcs etc.


You meant "what the sponsorship is for" I guess? Well, isn't it 
clear? To sponsor the development of the listed feature?


It wasn't clear to me at least. By now I infer they're sponsoring a 
certain feature. I would like more details on how they are to be cited 
for it?


Well exactly as I did?

I guess I don't understand what's not clear...

Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 20:09, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 20:05, Christian Ridderström<
christian.ridderst...@gmail.com>  wrote:

   

  That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the years
 

thanks to your paypal account and we know basically _nothing_ about it ;-)

   

Some of that money at least has been used to sponsor LyX meetings. (Or at
least beer;-)
 



And once upon a time it bought us aussie.
   


Well, all these details are in your memories, not a very transparent 
process :-) Not that I care much really but I am trying personally to do 
things as transparently as possible.


Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:

Some of that money at least has been used to sponsor LyX meetings. (Or 
at least beer;-)


And once upon a time it bought us aussie.


Cool, I didn't know that.

/Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 20:05, Christian Ridderström <
christian.ridderst...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>  That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the years
>> thanks to your paypal account and we know basically _nothing_ about it ;-)
>>
>
> Some of that money at least has been used to sponsor LyX meetings. (Or at
> least beer;-)


And once upon a time it bought us aussie.


-- 
   Lgb

Re: New commercial sponsorship

> That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the
years thanks to your paypal

> > account and we know basically _nothing_ about it ;-)
>
> This is an important issue. We for example had to pay all costs for our
> last developer meeting on our own but the general LyX donations are exactly
> for that purpose in my opinion. Moreover are the people who sponsor us still
> not listed at our webpage while this is the case on Abdel's page and one of
> the reasons for Abdel's success.
>

The people that sponsor abdel is listed at the page.
We had a rule earlier that if you wanted to be listed you had to say so in
your donation message.

I was in contact with Andre regarding cost for the last meeting: the
response was largely: don't sweat it.


>
> So Lars, I several times asked you to communicate to us developers (private
> mail) what money we got the last years at our general LyX paypal account
> that you own.


I have replied, but perhaps not to you.

But you never haven't replied. But this info is needed for example to plan
> our next meeting so that developers can for example be payed a part of the
> flights, beer, food, etc.


We have never payed for transportation earlier, and I can ensure you that
that will be a way to depleate all resources in a jiffy. All expences while
at location has been payed though, except for berlin.


>
> When you don't want to make this public to all developers, then at least
> some of the developers should know this. Currently even not JMarc and José
> knows it, right?


They know a bit I guess... there is a stead trickle of money being
donated... f.ex. today I got 2 euro...


>
> What Abdel has set up with his sponsor page is in my opinion how sponsoring
> should work for a free OpenSource project: Transparent and encouraging for
> potential sponsors as they know what they are sponsoring. And I don't think
> it is important if they sponsor LyX in general or a certain developer when
> he implements a special feature some sponsor would like to have.


(what if lyx does not want the feature?)

Actually I go out on the limb as usual and say that how Abdel has setup this
is almost exactly how I would _not_ have done it. (Speaking of sponsorship
for specific features.) IMHO too focused on specific persons/developers.

-- 
   Lgb

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On Sat, 28 Mar 2009, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:


 That said, I do not think this is a bad thing, but I'd like to know
 that the sponsorhip is for, special procjetcs etc.


You meant "what the sponsorship is for" I guess? Well, isn't it clear? 
To sponsor the development of the listed feature?


It wasn't clear to me at least. By now I infer they're sponsoring a 
certain feature. I would like more details on how they are to be cited for 
it?


That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the years 
thanks to your paypal account and we know basically _nothing_ about it ;-)


Some of that money at least has been used to sponsor LyX meetings. (Or at 
least beer;-)


cheers,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström   Mobile: +46-70 687 39 44

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On 28/03/2009 19:40, Uwe Stöhr wrote:
>> As it stands now it seems that _you_ have got sponsorship to do 
work on lyx, that

>> place some requirements on the LyX Project.
>
> Well, I am part of the LyX project and I created this page so maybe. 
I did all of this as openly
> as possible but I should have have asked for permission for the 3 
years citations, I agree.

3 years for 700 € is quite nothing. Real market prices for advertising 
are much higher. But its a start. When we have some sponsors, others 
will perhaps follow.

Yeah, I completely agree. But in these days of crisis, I thought it was 
quite good to be offered anything :-)

Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 19:26, Waluyo Adi Siswanto wrote:

Well maybe the LyX web site is quite popular who knows? :-)
Actually, we don't even know if LyX users count in the thousands,
hundreds of thousand or millions...

 


Yes it is popular, have a look here:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/lyx.org
   


Hum, that's an interesting page. You can do site comparison there. For 
example lyx.org is the same as abisource.com or koffice.org but much 
lower than openoffice.



Lyx.org has a traffic rank of:  168,508

The LyX Users:
United States16.2%
Germany13.5%
Sweden6.9%
Iran5.7%
Italy5.1%
United Kingdom5.1%
Austria4.3%
Turkey2.7%
Indonesia2.4%
Switzerland2.3%
Spain2.2%
Romania1.2%
Canada1.2%
France0.8%
   


Germany is no surprise but France is only at 0.8%, ouch!



Taiwan0.7%
Singapore0.6%
Other countries29.0%

---
was

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Uwe Stöhr


>> As it stands now it seems that _you_ have got sponsorship to do work on lyx, 
that
>> place some requirements on the LyX Project.
>
> Well, I am part of the LyX project and I created this page so maybe. I did 
all of this as openly
> as possible but I should have have asked for permission for the 3 years 
citations, I agree.

3 years for 700 € is quite nothing. Real market prices for advertising are much higher. But its a 
start. When we have some sponsors, others will perhaps follow.
Besides this, when LyX is a popular webpage, we can think about selling one or two banner 
advertisements to sponsor our developer meeting, server hardware etc., just a thought.


> That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the years 
thanks to your paypal
> account and we know basically _nothing_ about it ;-)

This is an important issue. We for example had to pay all costs for our last developer meeting on 
our own but the general LyX donations are exactly for that purpose in my opinion. Moreover are the 
people who sponsor us still not listed at our webpage while this is the case on Abdel's page and one 
of the reasons for Abdel's success.


So Lars, I several times asked you to communicate to us developers (private mail) what money we got 
the last years at our general LyX paypal account that you own. But you never haven't replied. But 
this info is needed for example to plan our next meeting so that developers can for example be payed 
a part of the flights, beer, food, etc.
When you don't want to make this public to all developers, then at least some of the developers 
should know this. Currently even not JMarc and José knows it, right?


What Abdel has set up with his sponsor page is in my opinion how sponsoring should work for a free 
OpenSource project: Transparent and encouraging for potential sponsors as they know what they are 
sponsoring. And I don't think it is important if they sponsor LyX in general or a certain developer 
when he implements a special feature some sponsor would like to have.


regards Uwe

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Waluyo Adi Siswanto


> Well maybe the LyX web site is quite popular who knows? :-)
> Actually, we don't even know if LyX users count in the thousands, 
> hundreds of thousand or millions...
> 

Yes it is popular, have a look here:
http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/lyx.org

Lyx.org has a traffic rank of:  168,508

The LyX Users:
United States16.2%
Germany13.5%
Sweden6.9%
Iran5.7%
Italy5.1%
United Kingdom5.1%
Austria4.3%
Turkey2.7%
Indonesia2.4%
Switzerland2.3%
Spain2.2%
Romania1.2%
Canada1.2%
France0.8%
Taiwan0.7%
Singapore0.6%
Other countries29.0%

---
was

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 15:16, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:

Abdelrazak Younes schreef:

Dear LyX developers,

I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €). The only 
thing they asked in exchange was to put a link to their news item for 
a minimum of three years. I thought the deal was fair and the news 
text is OK (http://www.beslist.nl/nieuws/82.html). Maybe I should 
write some text saying that the citation in the donation page will 
stay there for three years minimum.


Anyway, I think this is quite good news for LyX that commercial 
companies are interested in sponsoring LyX. The other sponsorship of 
this kind was of ten dollars or so from Broadcast Equipment Ltd, so 
it does not count much.
It is good news if they are really interested and supportive of LyX 
and not if they just want their name to be on a highly visited 
website, who knows ?


Well maybe the LyX web site is quite popular who knows? :-)
Actually, we don't even know if LyX users count in the thousands, 
hundreds of thousand or millions...




Serious question: would they have sponsored this project if their name 
would have appeared on the website for a general donation ?


You mean a greater donation? Maybe.

Maybe we should add the names of the general donators too, to attract 
companies to make a general donatino too and to accumulate some money 
for the whole project and/or for all developers in one way or the other.


No problem with that personally.
If we receive some more money, I will suggest to delegate a company or a 
fondation to take care of that.




I accepted the inline spellchecker task but if anybody is interested 
in the doc comparison task, I'll gladly gives the money. I know that 
Vincent has started to think about it already. If I manage to have 
some free time in the coming month, I would for sure try to implement 
the feature.
Yes, I would really like to step in right now and indeed I've been 
thinking about it for a while. Besides, the bugs are running out 
anyway. It would also be nice if I could construct a somewhat larger 
feature to have something to be proud of.


Oh, I am already proud of you my boy :-)

More seriously, the money is all yours if you implement the feature. 
I'll add your name in the table now if you want.


Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 14:20, Lars Gullik Bjønnes wrote:



On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 14:15, Lars Gullik Bjønnes > wrote:


On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 13:35, Abdelrazak Younes mailto:you...@lyx.org>> wrote:

Dear LyX developers,

I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €). The
only thing they asked in exchange was to put a link to their
news item for a minimum of three years. I thought the deal was
fair and the news text is OK
(http://www.beslist.nl/nieuws/82.html). Maybe I should write
some text saying that the citation in the donation page will
stay there for three years minimum.


I do think it is bad of you to accept things like this without any
discussions.


That said, I do not think this is a bad thing, but I'd like to know 
that the sponsorhip is for,

special procjetcs etc.


You meant "what the sponsorship is for" I guess? Well, isn't it clear? 
To sponsor the development of the listed feature?




As it stands now it seems that _you_ have got sponsorship to do work 
on lyx, that

place some requirements on the LyX Project.


Well, I am part of the LyX project and I created this page so maybe. I 
did all of this as openly as possible but I should have have asked for 
permission for the 3 years citations, I agree.


That being said Lars, I guess you received some money throughout the 
years thanks to your paypal account and we know basically _nothing_ 
about it ;-)


Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 14:39, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

Abdelrazak Younes wrote:
   

I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €). The only
thing they asked in exchange was to put a link to their news item for a
minimum of three years. I thought the deal was fair and the news text is
OK (http://www.beslist.nl/nieuws/82.html). Maybe I should write some
text saying that the citation in the donation page will stay there for
three years minimum.
 


Looks like a fair deal.

   

Anyway, I think this is quite good news for LyX that commercial
companies are interested in sponsoring LyX. The other sponsorship of
this kind was of ten dollars or so from Broadcast Equipment Ltd, so it
does not count much.
 


Hm. That's cheap advertisement (as long as they are listed that prominently as
"Commercial/Institutional Sponsor" of LyX).
   


I know, actually I sent them an email asking if that was a personal 
using the company credit card or something, but I didn't get any answer. 
I think I'll move it to the personal section.


Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 14:32, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €).


Do you have some context explaining why LyX was chosen, BTW?


Not really, the marketing person said that some people in the company 
used LyX and love it. They recommended to give LyX a donation and that 
would be a nice and free advertising for them.


Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship


On 28/03/2009 14:27, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:
As it stands now it seems that _you_ have got sponsorship to do work 
on lyx,

that place some requirements on the LyX Project.


Well, this means that a company pay someone to get some work done for 
LyX,

which is very close to what happens with other projects, for example. If
the company had contributed the code, we would have had no problem
acknowledging it (would we?).

What we (as a community) want to see in exchange is a new, major and well
written feature be added to LyX. This is then a fair exchange IMHO.

That said, I agree that discussing things first (even in a restricted 
way)

is a good is a good practice and should have been done.


Yeah, sorry. But I thought we had agreed on that when I created this page.

I'll do that next time.

Abdel.

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn



The donations page already seems to list corporate and individual 
sponsors, separately. And I don't really see any problem with letting 
people link to little news blurbs, or just to their own websites. I 
wouldn't have any problem, for example, if the record of the corporate 
donation from "Broadcast Equipment Ltd", whoever that is, was a link 
to their site. I don't see it so much as an ad, as a bit of information.


Moreover, I seriously doubt whether the donations page is the best 
visited one ;-)

Richard


Vincent

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread rgheck


Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:

Abdelrazak Younes schreef:

Dear LyX developers,

I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €). The only 
thing they asked in exchange was to put a link to their news item for 
a minimum of three years. I thought the deal was fair and the news 
text is OK (http://www.beslist.nl/nieuws/82.html). Maybe I should 
write some text saying that the citation in the donation page will 
stay there for three years minimum.


Anyway, I think this is quite good news for LyX that commercial 
companies are interested in sponsoring LyX. The other sponsorship of 
this kind was of ten dollars or so from Broadcast Equipment Ltd, so 
it does not count much.


It is good news if they are really interested and supportive of LyX 
and not if they just want their name to be on a highly visited 
website, who knows ?


This seems complicated, and it seems worth making some distinctions. One 
case would be where RedHat wanted to sponsor something. To them, LyX is 
part of their product. Another would be if Trolltech wanted to do so. 
(Of course, they did, by giving us server space.) To them, LyX is the 
best application ever written with Qt (!) and so great advertising for 
their product. Yet another would be groups like the AMS of IEEE, or some 
other academic trade group. Yet another would be a company that uses LyX 
and wants to pay someone to enhance it in ways that would benefit them. 
And yet another---maybe this is the present case---is that of a company 
that makes a donation because they like us and want to support us, and 
they get a little bit out of it in return. Corporations that donate to 
charitable causes always do so, in part, out of self-interest. These are 
different, but in all of these cases of course we would want to 
acknowledge the support. The question is presumably how, and maybe the 
answer is different in the different cases.


Serious question: would they have sponsored this project if their name 
would have appeared on the website for a general donation? Maybe we 
should add the names of the general donators too, to attract companies 
to make a general donatino too and to accumulate some money for the 
whole project and/or for all developers in one way or the other.


The donations page already seems to list corporate and individual 
sponsors, separately. And I don't really see any problem with letting 
people link to little news blurbs, or just to their own websites. I 
wouldn't have any problem, for example, if the record of the corporate 
donation from "Broadcast Equipment Ltd", whoever that is, was a link to 
their site. I don't see it so much as an ad, as a bit of information.


Richard

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller

Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:
> Besides, the bugs are running out anyway.

Ha!

> It would also be nice if I could construct a somewhat larger feature to
> have something to be proud of.

I think your bugfixing is more than enough reason to be proud (having said 
that, I certainly will not try to stop you from implementing the comparision 
feature).

Jürgen

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn


Abdelrazak Younes schreef:

Dear LyX developers,

I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €). The only 
thing they asked in exchange was to put a link to their news item for 
a minimum of three years. I thought the deal was fair and the news 
text is OK (http://www.beslist.nl/nieuws/82.html). Maybe I should 
write some text saying that the citation in the donation page will 
stay there for three years minimum.


Anyway, I think this is quite good news for LyX that commercial 
companies are interested in sponsoring LyX. The other sponsorship of 
this kind was of ten dollars or so from Broadcast Equipment Ltd, so it 
does not count much.
It is good news if they are really interested and supportive of LyX and 
not if they just want their name to be on a highly visited website, who 
knows ?


Serious question: would they have sponsored this project if their name 
would have appeared on the website for a general donation ? Maybe we 
should add the names of the general donators too, to attract companies 
to make a general donatino too and to accumulate some money for the 
whole project and/or for all developers in one way or the other.


I accepted the inline spellchecker task but if anybody is interested 
in the doc comparison task, I'll gladly gives the money. I know that 
Vincent has started to think about it already. If I manage to have 
some free time in the coming month, I would for sure try to implement 
the feature.
Yes, I would really like to step in right now and indeed I've been 
thinking about it for a while. Besides, the bugs are running out anyway. 
It would also be nice if I could construct a somewhat larger feature to 
have something to be proud of.


Abdel.


Vincent

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 14:27, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote:

> As it stands now it seems that _you_ have got sponsorship to do work on
>> lyx,
>> that place some requirements on the LyX Project.
>>
>
> Well, this means that a company pay someone to get some work done for LyX,
> which is very close to what happens with other projects, for example. If
> the company had contributed the code, we would have had no problem
> acknowledging it (would we?).
>

No.

>
> What we (as a community) want to see in exchange is a new, major and well
> written feature be added to LyX. This is then a fair exchange IMHO.
>

But it is not a given that we will get that :-)


-- 
   Lgb

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller

Abdelrazak Younes wrote:
> I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €). The only
> thing they asked in exchange was to put a link to their news item for a
> minimum of three years. I thought the deal was fair and the news text is
> OK (http://www.beslist.nl/nieuws/82.html). Maybe I should write some
> text saying that the citation in the donation page will stay there for
> three years minimum.

Looks like a fair deal.

> Anyway, I think this is quite good news for LyX that commercial
> companies are interested in sponsoring LyX. The other sponsorship of
> this kind was of ten dollars or so from Broadcast Equipment Ltd, so it
> does not count much.

Hm. That's cheap advertisement (as long as they are listed that prominently as 
"Commercial/Institutional Sponsor" of LyX).

Jürgen

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes


I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €).


Do you have some context explaining why LyX was chosen, BTW?

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes


Le 28 mars 09 à 14:27, Jean-Marc Lasgouttes a écrit :
Well, this means that a company pay someone to get some work done  
for LyX,
which is very close to what happens with other projects, for  
example. If

the company had contributed the code, we would have had no problem
acknowledging it (would we?).



I forgot to say: well done, Abdel!

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

2009-03-28 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes

As it stands now it seems that _you_ have got sponsorship to do  
work on lyx,

that place some requirements on the LyX Project.


Well, this means that a company pay someone to get some work done for  
LyX,

which is very close to what happens with other projects, for example. If
the company had contributed the code, we would have had no problem
acknowledging it (would we?).

What we (as a community) want to see in exchange is a new, major and  
well

written feature be added to LyX. This is then a fair exchange IMHO.

That said, I agree that discussing things first (even in a restricted  
way)

is a good is a good practice and should have been done.

JMarc

Re: New commercial sponsorship

On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 14:15, Lars Gullik Bjønnes  wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 13:35, Abdelrazak Younes  wrote:
>
>> Dear LyX developers,
>>
>> I just received a new sponsorship from Beslist.nl (700 €). The only thing
>> they asked in exchange was to put a link to their news item for a minimum of
>> three years. I thought the deal was fair and the news text is OK (
>> http://www.beslist.nl/nieuws/82.html). Maybe I should write some text
>> saying that the citation in the donation page will stay there for three
>> years minimum.
>
>
> I do think it is bad of you to accept things like this without any
> discussions.
>

That said, I do not think this is a bad thing, but I'd like to know that the
sponsorhip is for,
special procjetcs etc.

As it stands now it seems that _you_ have got sponsorship to do work on lyx,
that
place some requirements on the LyX Project.

-- 
   Lgb

Re: New commercial sponsorship