Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
I have to say that there is a world of difference between a new F150 Supercrew and a 60's Chevy pickup. I have had 2 of the Supercrews now and have loved them both. I also had a 1968 C10 Chevy for about 24 years. It was a good truck but not nearly so nice to drive and ride in as the newer ones are. One can still buy a very base 2 wheel drive pickup new. That is what most of the trucks were back in the earlier time period. My father always had a pickup truck and I don't think he ever owned one with carpet on the floor. They were usually bare bones work trucks without even a radio installed. Times have changed and although it is sometimes fun to remember the good old days, I personally think that vehicles have gained a whole lot in the past decade or two. RB The cab comfort and ergonomics are better, but you should not need a stepladder to get into a pickup cab. I can take any 60s pickup and make the cab MUCH more comfortable. It is pretty simple, throw out the seat. Install 60s to 80s volvo seats, or a bench from a newer truck. My U110 Bronco was the most uncomfortable POS I ever tried to ride in. 60 miles was a killer, even for young people. I threw out the awful seat and installed volvo seats and it was then perhaps better than sitting in a Mercedes. Problem solved. new carpet can be installed in a 60s pickup,as can be front disk brakes. (or all around) Personally, I prefer the rubber mats with carpet mats cut to fit. Much easier to clean. Air cond is better now, but a Japanese compressor can cure a lot of that problem. We generally never went more than 2-5 hundred miles round trip in a truck anyhow. When I was a kid the whole family went on a 1200 mile trip in the 48 chevy truck (2 T), then later went on a 4000 mile trip in the one ton chevy with a camper on the flatbed. In 1974, 3 of us went on a 3-4000 mile trip in the 68 international truck (1.5T). I can fix up a 60 pickup for less money than a new truck, and have a better truck that you don't need a ladder to get into. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
In my area we call 2wd trucks ditch queens. Unless you've got good snow tires and a buncha weight in the back and really know what you're doing you'll end up in the ditch... -Curt From: OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 24/01/2015 9:04 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: If someone would build a basic tough truck, people would buy it. But there is a lot more profit in selling $50,000 yupified wussmobiles. *The dealer where we bought the F150 called those trucks Pretty Boy trucks.* One can still buy a very base 2 wheel drive pickup new. That is what most of the trucks were back in the earlier time period. *Yes, you can still buy a base truck, but we had to special order ours - there were none in the area.* -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 10:44 AM, Randy Bennell via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: On 24/01/2015 9:04 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: If someone would build a basic tough truck, people would buy it. But there is a lot more profit in selling $50,000 yupified wussmobiles. *The dealer where we bought the F150 called those trucks Pretty Boy trucks.* One can still buy a very base 2 wheel drive pickup new. That is what most of the trucks were back in the earlier time period. *Yes, you can still buy a base truck, but we had to special order ours - there were none in the area.* -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
On 24/01/2015 9:04 AM, Curly McLain via Mercedes wrote: Agreed, the Mahindra would be nice to have available. If I were in the market for a pickup, I'd look for a 62-67 chovey, frod or dogde. Or an international Then put in an OM603 New pickups are ridiculous,both in bed height and in price. Cheep should resurrect the old pickup with the same 16 ga sheet metal, not the 30 ga (or plastic) like current wussified crap. Or international should start building light trucks again. If someone would build a basic tough truck, people would buy it. But there is a lot more profit in selling $50,000 yupified wussmobiles. But for that kind of money, I could buy a Mercedes. I have to say that there is a world of difference between a new F150 Supercrew and a 60's Chevy pickup. I have had 2 of the Supercrews now and have loved them both. I also had a 1968 C10 Chevy for about 24 years. It was a good truck but not nearly so nice to drive and ride in as the newer ones are. One can still buy a very base 2 wheel drive pickup new. That is what most of the trucks were back in the earlier time period. My father always had a pickup truck and I don't think he ever owned one with carpet on the floor. They were usually bare bones work trucks without even a radio installed. Times have changed and although it is sometimes fun to remember the good old days, I personally think that vehicles have gained a whole lot in the past decade or two. RB ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Dad is retiring this June and claims he's going to move to camp for a month so I'm kind of looking for a 1 ton rusty pickup for him to fart around in. He's got a Jeep Liberty thats been a surprisingly good truck but it won't pull start the Super M and it can't haul all that much. I've found several potential trucks all with the no brakes caveat that I'm not particularly scared of. The REALLY cheap ones say no brakes, bad transmission but thats more than I want to get into... -Curt From: Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight Agreed, the Mahindra would be nice to have available. If I were in the market for a pickup, I'd look for a 62-67 chovey, frod or dogde. Or an international Then put in an OM603 New pickups are ridiculous,both in bed height and in price. Cheep should resurrect the old pickup with the same 16 ga sheet metal, not the 30 ga (or plastic) like current wussified crap. Or international should start building light trucks again. If someone would build a basic tough truck, people would buy it. But there is a lot more profit in selling $50,000 yupified wussmobiles. But for that kind of money, I could buy a Mercedes. Mahindra was going to try to import real mini trucks again. Sadly they had a fight with their US distributor and plans were scrapped. They were talking about a 4cyl diesel engine capable of 30mpg, with an old school bed like Toyota used with the tie downs at the top rail. I was at the head of the line... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
I bought 2003 2WD Sonoma (same as Chevy S-10) from a neighbor's widow a few years back. Except for AC and radio, it's pretty basic. It's easy to get this truck stuck when the back end is light but (based on experience with tractors) I think a limited-slip differential (which is retrofit-able) is a fair alternative to 4WD. In most cases (ice, snow, mud, pine needles) I get stuck because one rear wheel spins free. I bought a used Torsen unit but haven't installed it yet. Questions/opinions: (1) What experience do others have with limited-slip differentials vs 4WD. And (2) should I try this Torsen install DIY or hire a pro to do the job? I have never done differential work (other than replacing 123 half shafts) so I'm not confident about getting the pinion/ring-gear mesh right. I've seen the photos of marking grease to show the gear contact but it seems one needs a shim kit for adjustments. Also, it looks like you could do a lot of damage if the gears don't mesh right. Thoughts? -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:26 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight In my area we call 2wd trucks ditch queens. Unless you've got good snow tires and a buncha weight in the back and really know what you're doing you'll end up in the ditch... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
In my area we call 2wd trucks ditch queens. Unless you've got good snow tires and a buncha weight in the back and really know what you're doing you'll end up in the ditch... -Curt Around here, the 4wd yuppiemobiles end up on the side of the road, often upside down or on the side. Primarily because the drivers think 4wd negates the laws of physics. I don't often see pickups in the ditch, but when they are mostly 4wd (see above). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
No doubt you CAN fix up a '60s truck but I bet the money isn't right. You'd still ought to have a newer engine. The 5.7l v8 in my Dodge makes 20mpg at 65mph with 265hp which made it walk away with a 240D on a Uhaul car carrier. I got 15mpg with that 240D from here to Dimitri's.The suspension on my Dodge is about like riding in a car, its so smooth... I helped a friend pick up a late '60s Mustang and was stunned by how badly it rode, about like riding a buckboard, made my Jetta seem plush by comparison. Have you driven a '60s pickup lately? Leaf springs are not a terrific design. My Dodge has struts up front and coils in the back which is probably how all the IFS trucks work although GM has used torsion bars for years. I'm with Randy on this one, trucks of today are more powerful, more comfortable, more reliable and require way less maintenance than those of yesteryear. Yes they're very expensive but they last longer and have more resale value too. While I want an old truck as a toy, I sure wouldn't want to live with one as my only ride. -Curt From: Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 12:33 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight I have to say that there is a world of difference between a new F150 Supercrew and a 60's Chevy pickup. I have had 2 of the Supercrews now and have loved them both. I also had a 1968 C10 Chevy for about 24 years. It was a good truck but not nearly so nice to drive and ride in as the newer ones are. One can still buy a very base 2 wheel drive pickup new. That is what most of the trucks were back in the earlier time period. My father always had a pickup truck and I don't think he ever owned one with carpet on the floor. They were usually bare bones work trucks without even a radio installed. Times have changed and although it is sometimes fun to remember the good old days, I personally think that vehicles have gained a whole lot in the past decade or two. RB The cab comfort and ergonomics are better, but you should not need a stepladder to get into a pickup cab. I can take any 60s pickup and make the cab MUCH more comfortable. It is pretty simple, throw out the seat. Install 60s to 80s volvo seats, or a bench from a newer truck. My U110 Bronco was the most uncomfortable POS I ever tried to ride in. 60 miles was a killer, even for young people. I threw out the awful seat and installed volvo seats and it was then perhaps better than sitting in a Mercedes. Problem solved. new carpet can be installed in a 60s pickup,as can be front disk brakes. (or all around) Personally, I prefer the rubber mats with carpet mats cut to fit. Much easier to clean. Air cond is better now, but a Japanese compressor can cure a lot of that problem. We generally never went more than 2-5 hundred miles round trip in a truck anyhow. When I was a kid the whole family went on a 1200 mile trip in the 48 chevy truck (2 T), then later went on a 4000 mile trip in the one ton chevy with a camper on the flatbed. In 1974, 3 of us went on a 3-4000 mile trip in the 68 international truck (1.5T). I can fix up a 60 pickup for less money than a new truck, and have a better truck that you don't need a ladder to get into. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Same here --- On Sat, Jan 24, 2015 at 4:42 PM, Curly McLain via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote Around here, the 4wd yuppiemobiles end up on the side of the road, often upside down or on the side. Primarily because the drivers think 4wd negates the laws of physics. I don't often see pickups in the ditch, but when they are mostly 4wd (see above). -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
I think I'd have somebody setup the diff, it shouldn't cost all that much to have somebody who knows what they're doing do it right. My Ranger had limited slip, I think it was a Torsen but I'm not sure. It was sweet, that truck went real well in 2wd and I basically had 4wd as a backup. In snow they're a little scary since both wheels turning together will make you fishtail right off the crown of the road. In snow theres no substitute for snow tires, weight, 4wd and of course driver control. You could maybe get away with any one out of that list... -Curt From: Scott Ritchey ritche...@nc.rr.com To: 'Curt Raymond' curtlud...@yahoo.com; 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:48 PM Subject: RE: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight I bought 2003 2WD Sonoma (same as Chevy S-10) from a neighbor's widow a few years back. Except for AC and radio, it's pretty basic. It's easy to get this truck stuck when the back end is light but (based on experience with tractors) I think a limited-slip differential (which is retrofit-able) is a fair alternative to 4WD. In most cases (ice, snow, mud, pine needles) I get stuck because one rear wheel spins free. I bought a used Torsen unit but haven't installed it yet. Questions/opinions: (1) What experience do others have with limited-slip differentials vs 4WD. And (2) should I try this Torsen install DIY or hire a pro to do the job? I have never done differential work (other than replacing 123 half shafts) so I'm not confident about getting the pinion/ring-gear mesh right. I've seen the photos of marking grease to show the gear contact but it seems one needs a shim kit for adjustments. Also, it looks like you could do a lot of damage if the gears don't mesh right. Thoughts? -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Curt Raymond via Mercedes Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 5:26 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight In my area we call 2wd trucks ditch queens. Unless you've got good snow tires and a buncha weight in the back and really know what you're doing you'll end up in the ditch... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Agreed, the Mahindra would be nice to have available. If I were in the market for a pickup, I'd look for a 62-67 chovey, frod or dogde. Or an international Then put in an OM603 New pickups are ridiculous,both in bed height and in price. Cheep should resurrect the old pickup with the same 16 ga sheet metal, not the 30 ga (or plastic) like current wussified crap. Or international should start building light trucks again. If someone would build a basic tough truck, people would buy it. But there is a lot more profit in selling $50,000 yupified wussmobiles. But for that kind of money, I could buy a Mercedes. Mahindra was going to try to import real mini trucks again. Sadly they had a fight with their US distributor and plans were scrapped. They were talking about a 4cyl diesel engine capable of 30mpg, with an old school bed like Toyota used with the tie downs at the top rail. I was at the head of the line... -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: No place to load up the profit in a little house. Its like a vehicle, nobody buys a smaller truck because they can't make it cheaper enough to make any sense. I have long regretted the way the Japanese pickups of the 1970s were replaced by the larger S10/Rangers of the 1980s, then the Dakota was advertised as bigger/more capable than the S10 and Ranger, so the Colorado and Ranger got bigger... My dad's last new pickup, a compact 2002 Dakota, is larger/heavier than his first new pickup, a full sized 1973 F100, but the F100 had a bigger cargo bed. F100 got 12mpg, Dakota gets 15. I bet the F100 would get at least 15 if you stuck the Dakota's sophisticated overdrive transmission and locking torque converter in it. (in the Dakota's defense, it's 4wd and its 4.7L V8 makes a lot more power than the F100's 360 V8 did) I wonder if you could make a LUV/Courier type mini that affordably meets today's safety standards. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Mahindra was going to try to import real mini trucks again. Sadly they had a fight with their US distributor and plans were scrapped. They were talking about a 4cyl diesel engine capable of 30mpg, with an old school bed like Toyota used with the tie downs at the top rail. I was at the head of the line... -Curt From: Mitch Haley mi...@mitchellhaley.com To: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com; Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2015 7:21 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight Curt Raymond via Mercedes wrote: No place to load up the profit in a little house. Its like a vehicle, nobody buys a smaller truck because they can't make it cheaper enough to make any sense. I have long regretted the way the Japanese pickups of the 1970s were replaced by the larger S10/Rangers of the 1980s, then the Dakota was advertised as bigger/more capable than the S10 and Ranger, so the Colorado and Ranger got bigger... My dad's last new pickup, a compact 2002 Dakota, is larger/heavier than his first new pickup, a full sized 1973 F100, but the F100 had a bigger cargo bed. F100 got 12mpg, Dakota gets 15. I bet the F100 would get at least 15 if you stuck the Dakota's sophisticated overdrive transmission and locking torque converter in it. (in the Dakota's defense, it's 4wd and its 4.7L V8 makes a lot more power than the F100's 360 V8 did) I wonder if you could make a LUV/Courier type mini that affordably meets today's safety standards. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
I'm quite interested in this too, our house is only 900SF and I estimate we'll need a new furnace in the next 4-5 years. I like the idea of the efficiency of geothermal. I was looking at the receipts today and it looks like we burn about 630 gallons of oil a year which came down a couple years ago when I 1/3 insulated the attic. When I get that finished I suspect we could get down to the 500 gallon range. That amount of oil also heats all our hot water.When my parents got a new oil furnace and went to a hot water tank (still heated by the furnace) their oil usage went down about 1/4 and I'm hoping ours could also. I've also been debating solar hot water which should cut our summertime oil usage to basically nothing, right now we fill up in April and that 210 gallons lasts until November. So I'm torn I can probably do a new 85% oil furnace for $5000-$6000, our current furnace is only 70-75% efficient so the efficiency gain alone will cut our oil use. Solar hot water will probably double the cost. I guess I need to talk to a local geothermal guy and see what it would cost for our house size. AFAIK it would be pretty easy to drill deep in our area, we have soft soil and a relatively high water table for good heat transfer. -Curt From: Dan Penoff via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 7:20 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight Scott, Just as a point of reference, our 4,000 SF house in Indianapolis would have cost around $18,000 in 2008 to do a full geothermal system. With all the government spiffs I think our actual out of pocket was estimated at around $11,000. Look closely at both the tax breaks both from Federal and state government. I know that in Indiana at the time you got a state property tax exemption as long as you lived in the house. Not a big spiff but a nice one. Our estimated monthly costs were supposed to be around $100 for either cooling or heating. This would have been significantly lower that what we were paying using a forced air furnace and 4.5 ton AC unit. The only reason we didn't do it was due to the wife getting laid off (twice!) Too precarious of a financial situation to invest the funds at the time. Otherwise we would have been all over it. I would add that we had a very competent HVAC guy who had done many of these systems and even had one in his own house. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jan 22, 2015, at 5:32 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Don, Could you tell us more about your geothermal setup? Is it a closed loop system? How big was the hole(s) (horizontal or vertical tubes)? How long did the install take? What is your climate? What longevity do you expect from the system? Would you do it again? There is a lot of information on these systems but most of it comes from suppliers, not users. I have air-source heat pumps but supplement on cold nights with a propane direct-vent fireplace. Propane prices just peaked here at $3.70 (so of course they came and topped up my 500 gal tank!) but price is significantly lower now. I like the ground-source idea but not sure I'll live here long enough for it to pay off. Thanks. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don via Mercedes Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:34 PM To: Andrew Strasfogel; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight That's what we found the first winter here, so we replaced the propane heat with a geothermal heat pump, and the propane water heater with an electric one that gets excess heat form the heat pump. Our total energy bill was one half of that years bill the next year. Even so, it will take 12-13 years to break even with the geothermal installation. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
We figured that if our initial outlay was $11,000 and we saved $2,000/year ($1,000 on energy costs and $1,000 on property taxes) it would be 5-1/2 years to pay back. If we factored in the cost of replacing the furnace and AC, which was the alternative, the payback would be even faster, as the initial,outlay would be close to the same but we wouldn't get the same reduction in cost or the tax break. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jan 23, 2015, at 2:21 PM, OK Don via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I think that the return on investment time for geothermal is so long that you need to be committed to staying in the house at least that long. That's easy for us now - don't know about anyone else. FYI, our house is 1600 sq. ft. for reference. On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I'm quite interested in this too, our house is only 900SF and I estimate we'll need a new furnace in the next 4-5 years. I like the idea of the efficiency of geothermal. I was looking at the receipts today and it looks like we burn about 630 gallons of oil a year which came down a couple years ago when I 1/3 insulated the attic. When I get that finished I suspect we could get down to the 500 gallon range. That amount of oil also heats all our hot water.When my parents got a new oil furnace and went to a hot water tank (still heated by the furnace) their oil usage went down about 1/4 and I'm hoping ours could also. I've also been debating solar hot water which should cut our summertime oil usage to basically nothing, right now we fill up in April and that 210 gallons lasts until November. So I'm torn I can probably do a new 85% oil furnace for $5000-$6000, our current furnace is only 70-75% efficient so the efficiency gain alone will cut our oil use. Solar hot water will probably double the cost. I guess I need to talk to a local geothermal guy and see what it would cost for our house size. AFAIK it would be pretty easy to drill deep in our area, we have soft soil and a relatively high water table for good heat transfer. -Curt -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
I think that the return on investment time for geothermal is so long that you need to be committed to staying in the house at least that long. That's easy for us now - don't know about anyone else. FYI, our house is 1600 sq. ft. for reference. On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 11:46 AM, Curt Raymond via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I'm quite interested in this too, our house is only 900SF and I estimate we'll need a new furnace in the next 4-5 years. I like the idea of the efficiency of geothermal. I was looking at the receipts today and it looks like we burn about 630 gallons of oil a year which came down a couple years ago when I 1/3 insulated the attic. When I get that finished I suspect we could get down to the 500 gallon range. That amount of oil also heats all our hot water.When my parents got a new oil furnace and went to a hot water tank (still heated by the furnace) their oil usage went down about 1/4 and I'm hoping ours could also. I've also been debating solar hot water which should cut our summertime oil usage to basically nothing, right now we fill up in April and that 210 gallons lasts until November. So I'm torn I can probably do a new 85% oil furnace for $5000-$6000, our current furnace is only 70-75% efficient so the efficiency gain alone will cut our oil use. Solar hot water will probably double the cost. I guess I need to talk to a local geothermal guy and see what it would cost for our house size. AFAIK it would be pretty easy to drill deep in our area, we have soft soil and a relatively high water table for good heat transfer. -Curt -- OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Curt wrote: I'm quite interested in this too, our house is only 900SF Has anyone else seen the Tiny House Nation show? I see it at hulu. 300sf for a house? - and it looks nice. I like the concept. Somehow developers need to turn this style to the next big thing and not be so... stuck in the mud, larger is better... mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
No place to load up the profit in a little house. Its like a vehicle, nobody buys a smaller truck because they can't make it cheaper enough to make any sense. You've still got all the basic costs... -Curt From: Mountain Man via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, January 23, 2015 6:11 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight Curt wrote: I'm quite interested in this too, our house is only 900SF Has anyone else seen the Tiny House Nation show? I see it at hulu. 300sf for a house? - and it looks nice. I like the concept. Somehow developers need to turn this style to the next big thing and not be so... stuck in the mud, larger is better... mao ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Scott, Just as a point of reference, our 4,000 SF house in Indianapolis would have cost around $18,000 in 2008 to do a full geothermal system. With all the government spiffs I think our actual out of pocket was estimated at around $11,000. Look closely at both the tax breaks both from Federal and state government. I know that in Indiana at the time you got a state property tax exemption as long as you lived in the house. Not a big spiff but a nice one. Our estimated monthly costs were supposed to be around $100 for either cooling or heating. This would have been significantly lower that what we were paying using a forced air furnace and 4.5 ton AC unit. The only reason we didn't do it was due to the wife getting laid off (twice!) Too precarious of a financial situation to invest the funds at the time. Otherwise we would have been all over it. I would add that we had a very competent HVAC guy who had done many of these systems and even had one in his own house. Dan Sent from my iPad On Jan 22, 2015, at 5:32 PM, Scott Ritchey via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Hey Don, Could you tell us more about your geothermal setup? Is it a closed loop system? How big was the hole(s) (horizontal or vertical tubes)? How long did the install take? What is your climate? What longevity do you expect from the system? Would you do it again? There is a lot of information on these systems but most of it comes from suppliers, not users. I have air-source heat pumps but supplement on cold nights with a propane direct-vent fireplace. Propane prices just peaked here at $3.70 (so of course they came and topped up my 500 gal tank!) but price is significantly lower now. I like the ground-source idea but not sure I'll live here long enough for it to pay off. Thanks. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don via Mercedes Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:34 PM To: Andrew Strasfogel; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight That's what we found the first winter here, so we replaced the propane heat with a geothermal heat pump, and the propane water heater with an electric one that gets excess heat form the heat pump. Our total energy bill was one half of that years bill the next year. Even so, it will take 12-13 years to break even with the geothermal installation. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
I'm already in the classroom although the class is slow to arrive. Its been a slow class, we ran to 7:30 last night which is the latest I've ever gone... Jetta radiator seems to be holding up, I guess my new brackets hold it in place well enough. I still plan to check them this weekend. Got the gasket set for the snowmobile engine, got it all cleaned, need to lug it back out to the garage and use the impact gun to get the flywheel nut off. I've started painting the tinwork but its deeply pitted and needs the primer sanded out and a couple more coats. You can't take off the tinwork while the engine is installed and can't pull the engine without pulling the clutch so I figure I better do it now. Curt Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 8:46 AM, WILTON via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: Up and at 'em, daylight's aburnin' here in the eastern zone! When I got the 3yo up (at the usual time) he asked if it was still bedtime because it was so dark. I don't mind the cold, but the wet weekends have been driving me nuts! Meanwhile, my gas-fired boiler for circulating hot water heating system quit yesterday, and I'm awaiting repairman. Heat pump's aworking', though, so maybe I can stand it.;) I keep electric heaters for when I run out of propane. Hopefully that won't happen again, but it pays to have a backup. Keep warm! Best, Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
[MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Up and at 'em, daylight's aburnin' here in the eastern zone! Meanwhile, my gas-fired boiler for circulating hot water heating system quit yesterday, and I'm awaiting repairman. Heat pump's aworking', though, so maybe I can stand it.;) W ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Tim Crone via Mercedes wrote: I keep electric heaters for when I run out of propane. Hopefully that won't happen again, but it pays to have a backup. Keep warm! I check my tank gauge every Sunday. My next door neighbor complained that his propane company only filled him to 56% during the shortage last year. Then he ran out of propane about ten days later. After the refill, his furnace went on lockout, and he had to pay a tech to clean his burners. Furnace had a pre-season service, tech told him that running out of LP was the cause of the problem. I couldn't believe he let it happen. He was really worried about the short fill, but apparently didn't keep close track of the propane level. I would have been burning up the phone lines after it hit 20%. He paid in advance for a year's propane in the middle of the summer, with a 'keep full' contract, and they did that to him when propane got expensive. My parents have the same contract with another provider which tries to keep them above 50% because of their backup generator. Their tank was kept full through last year's shortage. Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
Hey Don, Could you tell us more about your geothermal setup? Is it a closed loop system? How big was the hole(s) (horizontal or vertical tubes)? How long did the install take? What is your climate? What longevity do you expect from the system? Would you do it again? There is a lot of information on these systems but most of it comes from suppliers, not users. I have air-source heat pumps but supplement on cold nights with a propane direct-vent fireplace. Propane prices just peaked here at $3.70 (so of course they came and topped up my 500 gal tank!) but price is significantly lower now. I like the ground-source idea but not sure I'll live here long enough for it to pay off. Thanks. Scott -Original Message- From: Mercedes [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of OK Don via Mercedes Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 3:34 PM To: Andrew Strasfogel; Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight That's what we found the first winter here, so we replaced the propane heat with a geothermal heat pump, and the propane water heater with an electric one that gets excess heat form the heat pump. Our total energy bill was one half of that years bill the next year. Even so, it will take 12-13 years to break even with the geothermal installation. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
On Thu, 22 Jan 2015 13:06:50 -0500 Andrew Strasfogel astrasfo...@gmail.com wrote: Keep pushing it East. I don't want to go to work every day. I'm fairly good at pushing snow, for a guy who had neck surgery and whose lower back is bothering him, but I don't think I can push it all the way to D.C. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
Re: [MBZ] Burnin' daylight
That's what we found the first winter here, so we replaced the propane heat with a geothermal heat pump, and the propane water heater with an electric one that gets excess heat form the heat pump. Our total energy bill was one half of that years bill the next year. Even so, it will take 12-13 years to break even with the geothermal installation. On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Andrew Strasfogel via Mercedes mercedes@okiebenz.com wrote: I have a friend in Manassas who complains that propane is obscenely expensive. He heats his house at 60 and still pays over $500/mo. :( OK Don NSA: The only branch of government that actually listens to US citizens! There are three kinds of men: The ones that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. WILL ROGERS, *The Manly Wisdom of Will Rogers* 2013 F150, 18 mpg 2012 Passat TDI DSG, 44 mpg 1957 C182A, 12 mpg - but at 150 mph! ___ http://www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com All posts are the result of individual contributors and as such, those individuals are responsible for the content of the post. The list owner has no control over the content of the messages of each contributor.
