subject:"\[MBZ\] brake job nightmare"

what i'm saying is that it compromises our ability to fully commit to
quality. a place like autohausaz shows up selling bosch at roughly their
cost, which, as a bosch distributor, is lower than any mom and pop can buy
it for. they have access to millions of dollars in financing, so they can
spread the word on their great prices. everyone sees they are telling the
truth as that alternator that seems to sell for about $140 is there for
$110. This is all true and nothing can be done by mom pop about it.

But then comes the sleight for hand that transforms the deal. AZ can't stay
in business, obviously, selling everything at cost, but they still always
have to support the notion that they are selling cheap. So rather than
sell a quality part that wholesales for $55 and sells for $75, which makes
them look ordinary, they simply sub a cheap chinese part they buy for $10
and sell it for $40. The consumer, now confident that AZ is cheaper can
see that they are selling the same part people want $75 to for $40.

In reality, AZ is only cheaper on bosch (basically because bosch lets them
violate their TOS, if you will, by selling wholesale to the retail public)
and has no advantage at all when comparing like with like. their solution
is to convince you to compare like with unlike and conclude that AZ is
cheaper

mom pop are now put in the position where the customer now thinks that
part X should cost him $40, which is below the wholesale cost of $55 for the
quality part. at this point, what can mom pop do other than to find some
kind of chinese part that costs less than $40 to sell for that $40 price?

where this ends though is walmart. mom pop rapidly disappear as their
customers all flock to cheaper AZ for woeful chinese parts sold by people
who were working at burger king last week. AZ can now raise the prices on
their chinese junk to $65, which is almost as much as the customer could
have gotten a quality part for when mom pop were still around. At the end
of the day, we all end up losers, except for an elite few large companies
and we look back wondering what happened to the good old days.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.comwrote:

--
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com

the consumer is now doing the exact same thing he did to destroy
downtown america to destroy the downtown small town component that really
made the internet so charming in earlier days.

IMHO, the destruction of mom and pop downtown shops was a top down deal,
not bottom up. The solution is to shop local, meaning locally owned
businesses, not corporate mega-chains. Here on this list, it means buying
from Rusty (and you) for new parts and K'leb for used stuff.

Rick
Off to the farmers market this afternoon, to shop local

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Dwight E. Giles, Jr

Right on-I too am off to local farmers.  Destruction  of mom and pos was
diabolical plot by evil W's and other big boxes.
Conspiracy rant off.

Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
Bissell Cove
Wickford RI 02852

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Rick Knoble
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 11:41 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

--
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 the consumer is now doing the exact same thing he did to destroy
 downtown america to destroy the downtown small town component that really
 made the internet so charming in earlier days.

IMHO, the destruction of mom and pop downtown shops was a top down deal, not

bottom up.  The solution is to shop local, meaning locally owned businesses,

not corporate mega-chains. Here on this list, it means buying from Rusty 
(and you) for new parts and K'leb  for used stuff.

Rick
Off to the farmers market this afternoon, to shop local 


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Dwight E. Giles, Jr

Right on again.

Bissell Cove Quahog  Auto Salvage Co
Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
Wickford RI 02852

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Gary Hurst
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 12:10 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

what i'm saying is that it compromises our ability to fully commit to
quality.  a place like autohausaz shows up selling bosch at roughly their
cost, which, as a bosch distributor, is lower than any mom and pop can buy
it for.  they have access to millions of dollars in financing, so they can
spread the word on their great prices.  everyone sees they are telling the
truth as that alternator that seems to sell for about $140 is there for
$110.  This is all true and nothing can be done by mom  pop about it.

But then comes the sleight for hand that transforms the deal.  AZ can't stay
in business, obviously,  selling everything at cost, but they still always
have to support the notion that they are selling cheap.  So rather than
sell a quality part that wholesales for $55 and sells for $75, which makes
them look ordinary, they simply sub a cheap chinese part they buy for $10
and sell it for $40.  The consumer, now confident that AZ is cheaper can
see that they are selling the same part people want $75 to  for $40.

In reality, AZ is only cheaper on bosch (basically because bosch lets them
violate their TOS, if you will, by selling wholesale to the retail public)
and has no advantage at all when comparing like with like.  their solution
is to convince you to compare like with unlike and conclude that AZ is
cheaper

mom  pop are now put in the position where the customer now thinks that
part X should cost him $40, which is below the wholesale cost of $55 for the
quality part.  at this point, what can mom  pop do other than to find some
kind of chinese part that costs less than $40 to sell for that $40 price?

where this ends though is walmart.  mom  pop rapidly disappear as their
customers all flock to cheaper AZ for woeful chinese parts sold by people
who were working at burger king last week.  AZ can now raise the prices on
their chinese junk to $65, which is almost as much as the customer could
have gotten a quality part for when mom  pop were still around.  At the end
of the day, we all end up losers, except for an elite few large companies
and we look back wondering what happened to the good old days.



On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 11:41 AM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.comwrote:

 --
 From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com

 the consumer is now doing the exact same thing he did to destroy
 downtown america to destroy the downtown small town component that really
 made the internet so charming in earlier days.


 IMHO, the destruction of mom and pop downtown shops was a top down deal,
 not bottom up.  The solution is to shop local, meaning locally owned
 businesses, not corporate mega-chains. Here on this list, it means buying
 from Rusty (and you) for new parts and K'leb  for used stuff.

 Rick
 Off to the farmers market this afternoon, to shop local

 ___
 http://www.okiebenz.com
 For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
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 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Peter T. Arnold


Theres a limit.

15 years ago I needed a starter for my kids POS Ford Escort.  $150 
Rebuilt from local parts store, owed by a friend.  Same friend had 
wanted to retire and sell me the store.  I read the writing on the wall, 
had no interest.


I pulled starter, it was cooked.

Local MotorMart sold me one for $29.

My friend told me it was POS starter, maybe but it was warenteed for 
Life which ended up being about 2 years.


I cannot pay a X5 factor to support the little guy.


--
Pete Arnold

This e-mail from Peter Arnold and any attachments to it are confidential 
to the intended recipient and may also be uncensored. If you have 
received it in error please consult your religious adviser.   If you are 
not the intended recipient, why have you read this far?  Please do not 
staple, spindle or otherwise mutilate this document, doing so may damage 
your screen.  All communications may be subject to interception or 
monitoring by the men in black helicopters for security purposes. Please 
rely on your own swine flu virus checking as the sender cannot accept 
any liability for any damage arising from any bug or virus infection.


Rick Knoble wrote:

--
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com

the consumer is now doing the exact same thing he did to destroy
downtown america to destroy the downtown small town component that 
really

made the internet so charming in earlier days.


IMHO, the destruction of mom and pop downtown shops was a top down 
deal, not bottom up.  The solution is to shop local, meaning locally 
owned businesses, not corporate mega-chains. Here on this list, it 
means buying from Rusty (and you) for new parts and K'leb  for used 
stuff.


Rick
Off to the farmers market this afternoon, to shop local

___
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

Dwight wrote:
 Right on-I too am off to local farmers.  Destruction  of mom and pos was
 diabolical plot by evil W's and other big boxes.
 Conspiracy rant off.

The term we tried to invent 8 years ago (on banned) is wallyrigged.
Maybe it can stick this time.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

the problem is that mom pop are not being abandoned for 5x but for 5
cents. and you aren't even getting the nickel for the most part, but just
getting confused on the bait and switch

and the issue is much bigger than money. it is more about destroying a fine
way of life for a really crappy one. some people care more about the kind
of world they live in than they do about the illusion of having another
nickel. alas, most people don't.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.netwrote:

Theres a limit.

15 years ago I needed a starter for my kids POS Ford Escort. $150 Rebuilt
from local parts store, owed by a friend. Same friend had wanted to retire
and sell me the store. I read the writing on the wall, had no interest.

I pulled starter, it was cooked.

Local MotorMart sold me one for $29.

My friend told me it was POS starter, maybe but it was warenteed for Life
which ended up being about 2 years.

I cannot pay a X5 factor to support the little guy.

--
Pete Arnold

This e-mail from Peter Arnold and any attachments to it are confidential to
the intended recipient and may also be uncensored. If you have received it
in error please consult your religious adviser. If you are not the
intended recipient, why have you read this far? Please do not staple,
spindle or otherwise mutilate this document, doing so may damage your
screen. All communications may be subject to interception or monitoring by
the men in black helicopters for security purposes. Please rely on your own
swine flu virus checking as the sender cannot accept any liability for any
damage arising from any bug or virus infection.

Rick Knoble wrote:

--
From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com

the consumer is now doing the exact same thing he did to destroy
downtown america to destroy the downtown small town component that really
made the internet so charming in earlier days.

IMHO, the destruction of mom and pop downtown shops was a top down deal,
not bottom up. The solution is to shop local, meaning locally owned
businesses, not corporate mega-chains. Here on this list, it means buying
from Rusty (and you) for new parts and K'leb for used stuff.

Rick
Off to the farmers market this afternoon, to shop local

___
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread LWB250

I have expressed my opinion about the wallyworld plague before, and how it 
literally destroyed the economy and culture of the small town I lived in in 
Wisconsin.

Suffice to say that I patently refuse to buy anything from WalMart and will 
continue to do so.  I know my actions have little effect, but it's the only way 
I can express my opinion and have an effect, albeit a small one.

FWIW, we sometimes have the same thing happen selling generator parts.  Some 
things are easily sourced from others, and when people do so, they often end up 
coming back to buy the good part from us.  In a lot of cases it's dealers who 
sell stuff on eBay and online for next to nothing.  How they do it, I don't 
know, but they can't be making enough money to be profitable, I believe.

Poos



--- On Sun, 9/13/09, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare
 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
 Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 1:08 PM
 the problem is that mom  pop are
 not being abandoned for 5x but for 5
 cents.  and you aren't even getting the nickel for the
 most part, but just
 getting confused on the bait and switch
 
 and the issue is much bigger than money.  it is more
 about destroying a fine
 way of life for a really crappy one.  some people care
 more about the kind
 of world they live in than they do about the illusion of
 having another
 nickel.  alas, most people don't.
 
 
 
 On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.netwrote:
 
  Theres a limit.
 
  15 years ago I needed a starter for my kids POS Ford
 Escort.  $150 Rebuilt
  from local parts store, owed by a friend.  Same
 friend had wanted to retire
  and sell me the store.  I read the writing on the
 wall, had no interest.
 
  I pulled starter, it was cooked.
 
  Local MotorMart sold me one for $29.
 
  My friend told me it was POS starter, maybe but it was
 warenteed for Life
  which ended up being about 2 years.
 
  I cannot pay a X5 factor to support the little
 guy.
 
 
  --
  Pete Arnold
 
  This e-mail from Peter Arnold and any attachments to
 it are confidential to
  the intended recipient and may also be uncensored. If
 you have received it
  in error please consult your religious
 adviser.   If you are not the
  intended recipient, why have you read this far? 
 Please do not staple,
  spindle or otherwise mutilate this document, doing so
 may damage your
  screen.  All communications may be subject to
 interception or monitoring by
  the men in black helicopters for security purposes.
 Please rely on your own
  swine flu virus checking as the sender cannot accept
 any liability for any
  damage arising from any bug or virus infection.
 
  Rick Knoble wrote:
 
 
 --
  From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
 
  the consumer is now doing the exact same thing
 he did to destroy
  downtown america to destroy the downtown small
 town component that really
  made the internet so charming in earlier
 days.
 
 
  IMHO, the destruction of mom and pop downtown
 shops was a top down deal,
  not bottom up.  The solution is to shop
 local, meaning locally owned
  businesses, not corporate mega-chains. Here on
 this list, it means buying
  from Rusty (and you) for new parts and K'leb 
 for used stuff.
 
  Rick
  Off to the farmers market this afternoon, to shop
 local
 
  ___
  http://www.okiebenz.com
  For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com
  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
 
  ___
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  To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
  To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
  http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

i'd have to think about it for a while. what would you say was your
original definition of the term?

there is a woman up the street who is crazy. previously, she went to war
against the snakes in the neighborhood. the snakes frighten her, so she
called the police everyday in an effort to eradicate them . then when the
police seemed to lose interest, she tried to get everyone on the block to
kill the snakes on their property. sanity prevailed, however, as these
snakes eat rats and we'd rather have snakes that just lie around all day
digesting rat than having the rats alive.

now she is calling the police about dogs. teh dogs are barking. this means
they are in distress. animal control must investigate and all the dogs in
distress must be confiscated by the government. so there is a swat team of
animal control on my corner right now investigating this dog torture ring.

so now i have to get dressed and go up the block and cuss everyone out.
this doesn't relate to anything, but it just popped up on me and i figured
i'd share :)

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com wrote:

Dwight wrote:
Right on-I too am off to local farmers. Destruction of mom and pos was
diabolical plot by evil W's and other big boxes.
Conspiracy rant off.

The term we tried to invent 8 years ago (on banned) is wallyrigged.
Maybe it can stick this time.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread OK Don

AND - those employeed by Wal-Mart are receiving food stamps (SNAP now) to be
able to feed their families 

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:08 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

 the problem is that mom  pop are not being abandoned for 5x but for 5
 cents.  and you aren't even getting the nickel for the most part, but just
 getting confused on the bait and switch

 and the issue is much bigger than money.  it is more about destroying a
 fine
 way of life for a really crappy one.  some people care more about the kind
 of world they live in than they do about the illusion of having another
 nickel.  alas, most people don't.


 --
 OK Don
 Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread OK Don

Thanks for sharing - if she succeeds in getting rid of the dogs, let us
know.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

i'd have to think about it for a while. what would you say was your
original definition of the term?

now she is calling the police about dogs. teh dogs are barking. this
means
they are in distress. animal control must investigate and all the dogs in
distress must be confiscated by the government. so there is a swat team of
animal control on my corner right now investigating this dog torture
ring.

so now i have to get dressed and go up the block and cuss everyone out.
this doesn't relate to anything, but it just popped up on me and i figured
i'd share :)

--
OK Don
Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

i think all we can do is try to support the few locals who remain and try to
educate others into the error of their ways.  but, as i've said, they don't
care as they think they got a free nickel, when they got nothing but reamed
and made the world a vastly inferior place.

in some older neighborhoods you can find some of the old businesses still
alive, but they are fading fast.  in the town rusty grew up in, sandy
springs, you can still find a few such places but most of them are long
gone.  i still sometimes go there to actually deal with dedicated people
trying to do a quality job.  last week my cellphone broke, so i took it this
ship where a father and son just fix phones all day long rather than just
chuck it and get the latest and greatest.

the kid fixed it in about 10 minutes.  when he refused payment as he really
didn't do anything i tried to offer him $20 as a tip for being helpful to
me.  he refused that as well, saying that all he wants from me is to tell
people about their service.  how much longer before the only place to go is
the idiots at the verizon store?



On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:16 PM, LWB250 lwb...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I have expressed my opinion about the wallyworld plague before, and how it
 literally destroyed the economy and culture of the small town I lived in in
 Wisconsin.

 Suffice to say that I patently refuse to buy anything from WalMart and will
 continue to do so.  I know my actions have little effect, but it's the only
 way I can express my opinion and have an effect, albeit a small one.

 FWIW, we sometimes have the same thing happen selling generator parts.
  Some things are easily sourced from others, and when people do so, they
 often end up coming back to buy the good part from us.  In a lot of cases
 it's dealers who sell stuff on eBay and online for next to nothing.  How
 they do it, I don't know, but they can't be making enough money to be
 profitable, I believe.

 Poos



 --- On Sun, 9/13/09, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com wrote:

  From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
  Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare
  To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
  Date: Sunday, September 13, 2009, 1:08 PM
  the problem is that mom  pop are
  not being abandoned for 5x but for 5
  cents.  and you aren't even getting the nickel for the
  most part, but just
  getting confused on the bait and switch
 
  and the issue is much bigger than money.  it is more
  about destroying a fine
  way of life for a really crappy one.  some people care
  more about the kind
  of world they live in than they do about the illusion of
  having another
  nickel.  alas, most people don't.
 
 
 
  On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:49 PM, Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net
 wrote:
 
   Theres a limit.
  
   15 years ago I needed a starter for my kids POS Ford
  Escort.  $150 Rebuilt
   from local parts store, owed by a friend.  Same
  friend had wanted to retire
   and sell me the store.  I read the writing on the
  wall, had no interest.
  
   I pulled starter, it was cooked.
  
   Local MotorMart sold me one for $29.
  
   My friend told me it was POS starter, maybe but it was
  warenteed for Life
   which ended up being about 2 years.
  
   I cannot pay a X5 factor to support the little
  guy.
  
  
   --
   Pete Arnold
  
   This e-mail from Peter Arnold and any attachments to
  it are confidential to
   the intended recipient and may also be uncensored. If
  you have received it
   in error please consult your religious
  adviser.   If you are not the
   intended recipient, why have you read this far?
  Please do not staple,
   spindle or otherwise mutilate this document, doing so
  may damage your
   screen.  All communications may be subject to
  interception or monitoring by
   the men in black helicopters for security purposes.
  Please rely on your own
   swine flu virus checking as the sender cannot accept
  any liability for any
   damage arising from any bug or virus infection.
  
   Rick Knoble wrote:
  
  
  --
   From: Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
  
   the consumer is now doing the exact same thing
  he did to destroy
   downtown america to destroy the downtown small
  town component that really
   made the internet so charming in earlier
  days.
  
  
   IMHO, the destruction of mom and pop downtown
  shops was a top down deal,
   not bottom up.  The solution is to shop
  local, meaning locally owned
   businesses, not corporate mega-chains. Here on
  this list, it means buying
   from Rusty (and you) for new parts and K'leb
  for used stuff.
  
   Rick
   Off to the farmers market this afternoon, to shop
  local
  
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

no, the police will probably not help her much and then she will ask us to
help her and we wont' either. then next week it will start all over again
with something else.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 1:21 PM, OK Don okd...@gmail.com wrote:

Thanks for sharing - if she succeeds in getting rid of the dogs, let us
know.

On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com
wrote:

i'd have to think about it for a while. what would you say was your
original definition of the term?

now she is calling the police about dogs. teh dogs are barking. this
means
they are in distress. animal control must investigate and all the dogs
in
distress must be confiscated by the government. so there is a swat team
of
animal control on my corner right now investigating this dog torture
ring.

so now i have to get dressed and go up the block and cuss everyone out.
this doesn't relate to anything, but it just popped up on me and i
figured
i'd share :)

--
OK Don
Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Peter Frederick


Sadly it only takes on lunatic to ruin the peace and quiet.

We are very lucky, we have had good neighbors next door for many,  
many years.  I guess that house attracts reasonable, stable people  
(plain colonial with lots of knotty pine panelling).  Not a  
pretentious house.  The current folks are the best neighbors one  
could as for.


The new house in the 'burg next door doesn't draw such nice people,  
being and upscale sort of place, but everyone that has lived there  
has been perfectly pleasant, if somewhat obsessed with lawn care.   
The first two got into financial trouble and had to move, luckily  
actually selling the house so they didn't go bankrupt, but you know  
what I mean.


One horse's backside can make the whole place a strain

Somebody needs to tell this woman about nuisance reporting -- it's at  
least a misdemeanor and if she keeps it up, not only could she do  
jail time and get a record, someday she's going to convince everyone  
she's just making things up and then something real will come up, and  
no one will respond.


Peter

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

jabba wrote:
 and you aren't even getting the nickel for the most part, but just
 getting confused on the bait and switch

I like the text on the Florida's Natural co-op premium
not-from-concentrate OJ we purchase.  Speaks to the same issue.  Other
mega-national corporations put juice in the carton from Brazil or
other less expensive source - skrew the laws that do not govern
there like they do here in USA.  So, now we need some better health
care system to cover up the cost saving from some inferior product
coming in cartons of OJ.  It is not only the nickel saved and
bait/switch - it is all of our products sourced out of our area.  Buy
local as often as possible.  Pay as much as possible for items you
need.  My son wrenches every day on cars - well, not every day now, as
biz has evaporated - but he says you can notice difference in OE
rotors, OE exhaust parts - they last, whereas aftermarket does not
last.  Whatever the difference - pay it and you will be ahead, instead
of behind.  Only we can affect business practices, since the bozos in
DC are not capable of even collecting taxes.  Eliminate DC and we
could be much better.  They accomplish nothing, anywhere.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

jabba wrote:
 but, as i've said, they don't
 care as they think they got a free nickel, when they got nothing but reamed
 and made the world a vastly inferior place.

annihilate the education system also, as they are the system that has
indoctrinated all of us of the value of a nickel.  there is no need to
be indoctrinated like this.  I did not like it when I heard Tim Worth
and Gary Hart speak it 30 years ago - I don't like it now.  Our
advanced kulture of service economy is good enuf to shove in the
sewer.  Save a nickel does not come down the line enuf to be of any
use to the people in the country.  Annihilate DC.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

jabba wrote:
 i'd have to think about it for a while.  what would you say was your
 original definition of the term?

original definition? - exactly what you are speaking about.  no nickel
saved, no nickel earned, mere rape by mega-national corporation
skrewing with every last one of their suppliers to get the lowest
prices.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread LarryT

I'd also like to see congress take a few years off - I'd even be willing to 
pay for their vacation - they'd do far less damage like that than when they 
are creating all kinds of new laws that are un-necessary at best and 
socialist at worst.


We'd never miss them and the country would likely be better off the longer 
they remain on vacation.  Of course, they'd never go for it (the vacation) 
because the population would see how little they (congress) are needed.


For that matter, the federal laws passed in the last 40 years could be 
declared null and void with little or no consequence.


LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: Mountain Man maontin@gmail.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 4:31 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare


jabba wrote:

but, as i've said, they don't
care as they think they got a free nickel, when they got nothing but 
reamed

and made the world a vastly inferior place.


annihilate the education system also, as they are the system that has
indoctrinated all of us of the value of a nickel.  there is no need to
be indoctrinated like this.  I did not like it when I heard Tim Worth
and Gary Hart speak it 30 years ago - I don't like it now.  Our
advanced kulture of service economy is good enuf to shove in the
sewer.  Save a nickel does not come down the line enuf to be of any
use to the people in the country.  Annihilate DC.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Mitch Haley


LarryT wrote:

For that matter, the federal laws passed in the last 40 years could be 
declared null and void with little or no consequence.


We're off topic for this list, but I've always thought it should be 100 years. 
(until the 100th birthday of the Federal Reserve Act, then it should be more 
than 100 years).


Mitch.

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Curt Raymond

I have a draft email in my Yahoo account for that purpose...

It used to be that if I just clicked out of Rusty's site my purchases would 
remain, musta been a cookie or something. Was pretty handy although a bit of a 
privacy concern.

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:32:00 -0500
From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID:
    437bc980909111832y61ec75a0g46d608c4611cb...@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

That's what post-it notes on the side of the monitor are for 

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:31 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:

  I wish Rustys site had a Wish List that lasted even when we log out!  I
 often have a few small things to order the next time I need something big
 but always forget about them!

 --
 OK Don
 Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Curt Raymond

I actually have several ideas on this front.

#1. Congressional layoffs. The money saved is not just in having too many 
legislators (which we do) but that each legislator has too much staff...

#2. No paid congressional travel anywhere other than from their home district 
to Washington and back. Ever.

#3. All legislators will work 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for 1 month at a 
time. Then they go home for a month. Then another month in DC, then home. 
Missing votes is not an option without a berevement or medical release.

In Washington all legislators will be housed in dormitory style housing.
In Washington all legislators will be issued a 10'x6' office. It will have a 
desk, a computer a phone and 3 chairs. Connected will be one staff office, it 
will be 10'x10', it will have 2 desks, 2 computers, 2 phones, 6 chairs. There 
will be no carpet, no windows, no art. Offices are to work in.

I could go on all night with this.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:19:21 -0400
From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 6ebcdf75cb334ff9902a4dce28db6...@toshibalaptop
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
    reply-type=original

I'd also like to see congress take a few years off - I'd even be willing to 
pay for their vacation - they'd do far less damage like that than when they 
are creating all kinds of new laws that are un-necessary at best and 
socialist at worst.

We'd never miss them and the country would likely be better off the longer 
they remain on vacation.  Of course, they'd never go for it (the vacation) 
because the population would see how little they (congress) are needed.

For that matter, the federal laws passed in the last 40 years could be 
declared null and void with little or no consequence.

LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net


  
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread LarryT

I could go for that - actually the Va legislature works kind of like that - 
The General Assembly meets annually, beginning on the second Wednesday in 
January, for 60 days in even-numbered years and for 30 days in odd-numbered 
years, with an option to extend annual sessions for a maximum of 30 days.. 
There are usually 1000+ bills to consider but because of the time frame many 
are tossed out.


The gov can call a special session if there are severe budget/economic 
problems but it doesn't happen often


Also, the Gov serves for a single 4 year term, then he's gone.

I really like your ideas about the fed legislature - especially the austere 
offices - just like Walmart actually!  But for slightly different reasons - 
Mr Walton said his managers were supposed to be on the road and not in a 
fancy office.


Limiting their travel to once a year would save gobs of money.  Also, they 
should fly commercial, business class - no exceptions.  No limos, they can 
be driven to the office in a Taurus.  Count their lucky stars I'd allow a 
chauffer - but there's no reason they can all ride together in a few buses 
from the dorm!


The temps in their offices must be on 78 in the summer and 62 in the winter. 
Work fast and you stay warm!


I'd also limit their pay drastically.  Can't tie it to minimum wage because 
they'd increase min wage, but to make it equal to what, ...  say an engineer 
makes fresh out of college - $65 or $70k per year IIRC.


I'd also (as long as we're dreaming because that's what this is) I'd say no 
lawyers!  Only people with business degrees, engineering, scientific or 
economic degree's can be elected.


May as well require them to have worked 5 years at some point after high 
school but running a business would count.


Oh yeah, about campaign promises -  if they don't make a concerted effort to 
do what they promise within  the 1st 2 sessions then they must leave. 
Resign and find another job.


Also, they take an OATH to observe  protect the Constitution.  If they 
introduce things that undermine this country (like leaving our borders open) 
bring them up on charges.


You know? I bet we could pick the top 10 and start to push for this.. 
Without congress it cannot go anywhere but maybe we could get the American 
people behind it and require every legislature running must declare they 
will work within these guidelines and work to change them to the LAW!  In 
the meantime they still adhere to them.  It'd be a great vote getter for 
those running who choose to endorse our ideas IMO.


Oh well, enuf dreamin'
LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
Sent: Sunday, September 13, 2009 7:53 PM
To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare


I actually have several ideas on this front.

#1. Congressional layoffs. The money saved is not just in having too many 
legislators (which we do) but that each legislator has too much staff...


#2. No paid congressional travel anywhere other than from their home 
district to Washington and back. Ever.


#3. All legislators will work 10 hours a day, 6 days a week for 1 month at 
a time. Then they go home for a month. Then another month in DC, then 
home. Missing votes is not an option without a berevement or medical 
release.


In Washington all legislators will be housed in dormitory style housing.
In Washington all legislators will be issued a 10'x6' office. It will have 
a desk, a computer a phone and 3 chairs. Connected will be one staff 
office, it will be 10'x10', it will have 2 desks, 2 computers, 2 phones, 6 
chairs. There will be no carpet, no windows, no art. Offices are to work 
in.


I could go on all night with this.

-Curt

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 17:19:21 -0400
From: LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 6ebcdf75cb334ff9902a4dce28db6...@toshibalaptop
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original

I'd also like to see congress take a few years off - I'd even be willing 
to
pay for their vacation - they'd do far less damage like that than when 
they

are creating all kinds of new laws that are un-necessary at best and
socialist at worst.

We'd never miss them and the country would likely be better off the longer
they remain on vacation.  Of course, they'd never go for it (the vacation)
because the population would see how little they (congress) are needed.

For that matter, the federal laws passed in the last 40 years could be
declared null and void with little or no consequence.

LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Craig McCluskey

On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I have a draft email in my Yahoo account for that purpose...
 
 It used to be that if I just clicked out of Rusty's site my purchases
 would remain, musta been a cookie or something. Was pretty handy
 although a bit of a privacy concern.

Actually, a cookie is something on YOUR computer ...


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

Curt wrote:
 #1. Congressional layoffs. The money saved is not just in having too many 
 legislators (which we do) but that each legislator has too much staff...


Don't forget all the money put to decent use in the ekonomy - no
lobbyists allowed, since they are all layed off.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

LarryT wrote:
 If they
 introduce things that undermine this country (like leaving our borders open)
 bring them up on charges.

I have followed this rationale for years, but am beginning to not like
the borders element of borders, language, culture (Michael Savage).
Very few of us are indigenous peoples - most of us have loong history
of past immigration, some more recent.  I am rethinking the borders
thing, as it seems a sham strawman that should be dropped.  What to do
with some of the issues open borders brings - I don't know, but I am
growing to reject the closed border thing.  It sounds more like a
boondoggle that is becoming a federal program that never ends, doesn't
do any of what it set out to accomplish, and costs more and more
dollars.  Me? - I'm ready to scrap the closed borders option.
mao

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Curt Raymond

I know but cookies can be tracked. If you were in the tinfoil hat set you'd be 
worried about that...

-Curt

Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:44:11 -0600
From: Craig McCluskey diese...@pisquared.net
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Message-ID: 20090913184411.76ea8916.diese...@pisquared.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 15:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I have a draft email in my Yahoo account for that purpose...

 It used to be that if I just clicked out of Rusty's site my purchases
 would remain, musta been a cookie or something. Was pretty handy
 although a bit of a privacy concern.

Actually, a cookie is something on YOUR computer ...

Craig

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread archer

Just downloaded Rainlendar from filehippo.com.  It's supposed to have a place 
where you can put stuff you want to do when you get around to it, but I haven't 
had time to play with it yet.  Downloaded it some time ago but it wasn't very 
user friendly then.  Seems to be much better now.  Its free and not too big.
Gerry

From: Curt Raymond curtlud...@yahoo.com
I have a draft email in my Yahoo account for that purpose...
It used to be that if I just clicked out of Rusty's site my purchases would 
remain, musta been a cookie or something. Was pretty handy although a bit of a 
privacy concern.

From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com
That's what post-it notes on the side of the monitor are for 

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:31 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:
 I wish Rustys site had a Wish List that lasted even when we log out! I
 often have a few small things to order the next time I need something big
 but always forget about them!
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread OK Don

Are you sure that the borders aren't being closed to keep us in???


 I have followed this rationale for years, but am beginning to not like
 the borders element of borders, language, culture (Michael Savage).
 Very few of us are indigenous peoples - most of us have loong history
 of past immigration, some more recent.  I am rethinking the borders
 thing, as it seems a sham strawman that should be dropped.  What to do
 with some of the issues open borders brings - I don't know, but I am
 growing to reject the closed border thing.  It sounds more like a
 boondoggle that is becoming a federal program that never ends, doesn't
 do any of what it set out to accomplish, and costs more and more
 dollars.  Me? - I'm ready to scrap the closed borders option.
 mao


 --
 OK Don
 Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-13 Thread Craig McCluskey

On Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Curt Raymond
curtlud...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I know but cookies can be tracked. If you were in the tinfoil hat set
 you'd be worried about that...

Or you delete all your cookies either at browser close or with a manual
effort.

And you clean out your .macromedia flash folders. Like I do.


Craig

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Peter T. Arnold

HIgh quality OEM hydraulic parts can be rebuilt, every airplane you've
flown in has them. Got to be: cleaned, honed, inspected for pits,
reassembled with high quality seals, tested and appropriately stored.
After all of that, they have to be properly installed bleed.

I bought Reman calipers from Rusty and they were 100%

--
Pete Arnold

This e-mail from Peter Arnold and any attachments to it are confidential
to the intended recipient and may also be uncensored. If you have
received it in error please consult your religious adviser. If you are
not the intended recipient, why have you read this far? Please do not
staple, spindle or otherwise mutilate this document, doing so may damage
your screen. All communications may be subject to interception or
monitoring by the men in black helicopters for security purposes. Please
rely on your own swine flu virus checking as the sender cannot accept
any liability for any damage arising from any bug or virus infection.

Gary Hurst wrote:

i'm very careful when i mess with rebuilt calipers and generally don't like
to buy or sell them. back in the day, before benzbin and, particularly,
autohausaz walmarted a receptive public with cheap indian and chinese crap,
rusty and i wouldn't even sell rebuilt calipers unless our arms were twisted
severely. today, however, there is no way to sell a brand new ate unit for
$200 when the garbage merchants have convinced that public that some
absolute garbage rebuilt in a sweat shop by an 8 year old chinese kid is
the same thing for $40

the public has absolutely rejected quality in favor of cheap. it puts us in
the troubling position of either selling the junk you people absolutely and
unequivocally insist on despite our personal beliefs or simply closing up
shop and finding another livelihood.

it's not too late for y'all to repent your evil ways and prevent the total
annihilation of quality. not that i'm really hopeful that any of you will,
but it's really not too late.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

OK Don okd...@gmail.com writes:

Perhaps get a rebuild kit for the old caliper from Rusty - now that
you've bought some time. It might be better than the one you
bought. It's not that hard to rebuild one.

There's a 50 core refund I'd give up. Plus the cost of the kit. Not
worth it. They were rebuilds too. Only lasted 2 years.

Allan

--
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Dwight E. Giles, Jr

Pete-
I like your new signature. 
Dwight 

Bissell Cove Quahog  Auto Salvage Co
Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
Wickford RI 02852

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Peter T. Arnold
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2009 7:48 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

HIgh quality OEM hydraulic parts can be rebuilt, every airplane you've 
flown in has them.  Got to be: cleaned, honed, inspected for pits, 
reassembled with high quality seals, tested and appropriately stored.  
After all of that, they have to be properly installed  bleed.
I bought Reman calipers from Rusty and they were 100%


--
Pete Arnold

This e-mail from Peter Arnold and any attachments to it are confidential 
to the intended recipient and may also be uncensored. If you have 
received it in error please consult your religious adviser.   If you are 
not the intended recipient, why have you read this far?  Please do not 
staple, spindle or otherwise mutilate this document, doing so may damage 
your screen.  All communications may be subject to interception or 
monitoring by the men in black helicopters for security purposes. Please 
rely on your own swine flu virus checking as the sender cannot accept 
any liability for any damage arising from any bug or virus infection.

Gary Hurst wrote:
 i'm very careful when i mess with rebuilt calipers and generally don't
like
 to buy or sell them.  back in the day, before benzbin and, particularly,
 autohausaz walmarted a receptive public with cheap indian and chinese
crap,
 rusty and i wouldn't even sell rebuilt calipers unless our arms were
twisted
 severely.  today, however, there is no way to sell a brand new ate unit
for
 $200 when the garbage merchants have convinced that public that some
 absolute garbage rebuilt in a sweat shop by an 8 year old chinese kid is
 the same thing for $40

 the public has absolutely rejected quality in favor of cheap.  it puts us
in
 the troubling position of either selling the junk you people absolutely
and
 unequivocally insist on despite our personal beliefs or simply closing up
 shop and finding another livelihood.

 it's not too late for y'all to repent your evil ways and prevent the total
 annihilation of quality.  not that i'm really hopeful that any of you
will,
 but it's really not too late.



 On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
wrote:

   
 OK Don okd...@gmail.com writes:

 
 Perhaps get a rebuild kit for the old caliper from Rusty - now that
 you've bought some time. It might be better than the one you
 bought. It's not that hard to rebuild one.
   
 There's a 50 core refund I'd give up.  Plus the cost of the kit.  Not
 worth it.  They were rebuilds too.  Only lasted 2 years.

 Allan

 --
 1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Dwight E. Giles, Jr

Gary
You should have  been a televangelist.

Bissell Cove Quahog  Auto Salvage Co
Dwight E. Giles, Jr.
Wickford RI 02852

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com]
On Behalf Of Gary Hurst
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:55 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

i'm very careful when i mess with rebuilt calipers and generally don't like
to buy or sell them.  back in the day, before benzbin and, particularly,
autohausaz walmarted a receptive public with cheap indian and chinese crap,
rusty and i wouldn't even sell rebuilt calipers unless our arms were twisted
severely.  today, however, there is no way to sell a brand new ate unit for
$200 when the garbage merchants have convinced that public that some
absolute garbage rebuilt in a sweat shop by an 8 year old chinese kid is
the same thing for $40

the public has absolutely rejected quality in favor of cheap.  it puts us in
the troubling position of either selling the junk you people absolutely and
unequivocally insist on despite our personal beliefs or simply closing up
shop and finding another livelihood.

it's not too late for y'all to repent your evil ways and prevent the total
annihilation of quality.  not that i'm really hopeful that any of you will,
but it's really not too late.



On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 OK Don okd...@gmail.com writes:

  Perhaps get a rebuild kit for the old caliper from Rusty - now that
  you've bought some time. It might be better than the one you
  bought. It's not that hard to rebuild one.

 There's a 50 core refund I'd give up.  Plus the cost of the kit.  Not
 worth it.  They were rebuilds too.  Only lasted 2 years.

 Allan

 --
 1983 300D

 ___
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Allan Streib

Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net writes:

 HIgh quality OEM hydraulic parts can be rebuilt, every airplane you've
 flown in has them.  Got to be: cleaned, honed, inspected for pits,
 reassembled with high quality seals, tested and appropriately stored.
 After all of that, they have to be properly installed  bleed.
 I bought Reman calipers from Rusty and they were 100%

The ones I just bought, and the ones I bought before that, were remans
from Rusty. If these only last two years, I'll buy new next time.

I bled the system today and it seems to all be working well after
grinding down the left front pads.

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Gary Hurst

peter misses the point. some 8 year old chinese kids can do a better job in
12 minutes than others can. or maybe the kid can have good days or bad
days? it is a dicey process and not conducive to an overall quality
experience. this has absolutely nothing at all to do with rusty. it is
about how the consumer has created the walmartization of america, in fact,
insisted on it against all other possibilities, but then he complains about
it.

there is something distasteful to me about people who get what they beg for
and insist on and then cry about how they don't like it. if you seek to
make everything into walmart, you ought to rejoice in your success at it.

i personally am horrified by walmartization and will continue to fight
against it. you will continue to fight for walmartization because you want
an extra nickel in your pocket come hell or high water (which you will
probably just give over to your government anyway in the end). based on how
things are going, you will win and i will lose.

then you can wax nostalgic for the good old days that you had brought to an
end.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net writes:

The ones I just bought, and the ones I bought before that, were remans
from Rusty. If these only last two years, I'll buy new next time.

I bled the system today and it seems to all be working well after
grinding down the left front pads.

Allan
--
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Hendrik Fay

Having just come across this evil stuff, I  cleaned one rotor and then 
found a little note in the ATE box to say that stuff does not need to be 
removed. The instructions which I read beforehand did say to remove the 
gunk if your rotors are not high performance (ie drilled and cross cut).
Using gasoline to clean the gunk is not a good idea because it is oil 
based and will leave a residue.
I found that fitting the rotor and then using fine sandpaper whilst 
spinning the rotor.


Hendrik

Allan Streib wrote:


The new front rotors are coated with what looks like varnish.  Brake
cleaner doesn't touch it.  Gasoline takes it off, slowly.  Spend about
an hour cleaning the rotors.



Allan
  



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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Allan Streib

Hendrik  Fay heni...@ozemail.com.au writes:

 Using gasoline to clean the gunk is not a good idea because it is oil
 based and will leave a residue.

I cleaned the rotors with brake cleaner after the gasoline treatment.

Allan

-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Allan Streib

No, Peter said that remanufacturing can be done properly and result in a
serviceable product.  He additionally said that he got quality remans
from Rusty.

You seem to be saying that the only choices are some slave-child-labor,
questionable quality reman, or new.

Allan

Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com writes:

 peter misses the point.  some 8 year old chinese kids can do a better job in
 12 minutes than others can.  or maybe the kid can have good days or bad
 days?  it is a dicey process and not conducive to an overall quality
 experience.  this has absolutely nothing at all to do with rusty.  it is
 about how the consumer has created the walmartization of america, in fact,
 insisted on it against all other possibilities, but then he complains about
 it.

 there is something distasteful to me about people who get what they beg for
 and insist on and then cry about how they don't like it.  if you seek to
 make everything into walmart, you ought to rejoice in your success at it.

 i personally am horrified by walmartization and will continue to fight
 against it.  you will continue to fight for walmartization because you want
 an extra nickel in your pocket come hell or high water (which you will
 probably just give over to your government anyway in the end).  based on how
 things are going, you will win and i will lose.

 then you can wax nostalgic for the good old days that you had brought to an
 end.

 On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net writes:

  HIgh quality OEM hydraulic parts can be rebuilt, every airplane you've
  flown in has them.  Got to be: cleaned, honed, inspected for pits,
  reassembled with high quality seals, tested and appropriately stored.
  After all of that, they have to be properly installed  bleed.
  I bought Reman calipers from Rusty and they were 100%


___
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-12 Thread Gary Hurst

no, i'm saying that continued focus on the cost bottom line will end you
up in a world where you cannot get any quality either in product or
service.  the consumer is now doing the exact same thing he did to destroy
downtown america to destroy the downtown small town component that really
made the internet so charming in earlier days.

On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.eduwrote:

 No, Peter said that remanufacturing can be done properly and result in a
 serviceable product.  He additionally said that he got quality remans
 from Rusty.

 You seem to be saying that the only choices are some slave-child-labor,
 questionable quality reman, or new.

 Allan

 Gary Hurst jabbahur...@gmail.com writes:

  peter misses the point.  some 8 year old chinese kids can do a better job
 in
  12 minutes than others can.  or maybe the kid can have good days or bad
  days?  it is a dicey process and not conducive to an overall quality
  experience.  this has absolutely nothing at all to do with rusty.  it is
  about how the consumer has created the walmartization of america, in
 fact,
  insisted on it against all other possibilities, but then he complains
 about
  it.
 
  there is something distasteful to me about people who get what they beg
 for
  and insist on and then cry about how they don't like it.  if you seek to
  make everything into walmart, you ought to rejoice in your success at it.
 
  i personally am horrified by walmartization and will continue to fight
  against it.  you will continue to fight for walmartization because you
 want
  an extra nickel in your pocket come hell or high water (which you will
  probably just give over to your government anyway in the end).  based on
 how
  things are going, you will win and i will lose.
 
  then you can wax nostalgic for the good old days that you had brought to
 an
  end.
 
  On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 8:54 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
 wrote:
 
  Peter T. Arnold pm7...@comcast.net writes:
 
   HIgh quality OEM hydraulic parts can be rebuilt, every airplane you've
   flown in has them.  Got to be: cleaned, honed, inspected for pits,
   reassembled with high quality seals, tested and appropriately stored.
   After all of that, they have to be properly installed  bleed.
   I bought Reman calipers from Rusty and they were 100%


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-11 Thread LarryT


Hi Allan,
You wrote Only lasted 2 years

How did they fail?

   I'm rebuilding a pair of front W123 calipers right now and they are very 
simple.  A metal cover that pries off, rubber seal and rubber o-ring - put 
new ones in (after coating with brake fluid) and everything falls into 
place.   Will do the passenger side today which will hopefully be as easy as 
the other was.


   I have a pair of 124 calipers needing a rebuild.  I shoud have ordered 
kits for them when I bought the 123 kits and pads!  I wish Rustys site had a 
Wish List that lasted even when we log out!  I often have a few small things 
to order the next time I need something big but always forget about them!


Later ya'll -
LarryT
'78 240D/'91 300D 2.5T

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:18 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare


OK Don okd...@gmail.com writes:


Perhaps get a rebuild kit for the old caliper from Rusty - now that
you've bought some time. It might be better than the one you
bought. It's not that hard to rebuild one.


There's a 50 core refund I'd give up.  Plus the cost of the kit.  Not
worth it.  They were rebuilds too.  Only lasted 2 years.

Allan

--
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-11 Thread Allan Streib

Pistons rusted and siezed in the bore.  Won't move.  It was the inside
piston on all four calipers.  Never seen anything like it.

Allan



On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:31 -0400, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:
 Hi Allan, You wrote Only lasted 2 years

 How did they fail?

 I'm rebuilding a pair of front W123 calipers right now and they
 are very simple.  A metal cover that pries off, rubber seal and
 rubber o-ring - put new ones in (after coating with brake fluid)
 and everything falls into place.   Will do the passenger side
 today which will hopefully be as easy as the other was.

 I have a pair of 124 calipers needing a rebuild.  I shoud have
 ordered kits for them when I bought the 123 kits and pads!  I wish
 Rustys site had a Wish List that lasted even when we log out!  I
 often have a few small things to order the next time I need
 something big but always forget about them!

 Later ya'll - LarryT '78 240D/'91 300D 2.5T

 OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
 www.youroil.net


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-11 Thread OK Don

That's what post-it notes on the side of the monitor are for 

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:31 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:


  I wish Rustys site had a Wish List that lasted even when we log out!  I
 often have a few small things to order the next time I need something big
 but always forget about them!


 --
 OK Don
 Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-11 Thread LarryT

Hmmm I haven't seen those - are they on Rusty's site or are you saying I 
should put post-its on my screen?  Unfortunately, they might block the view 
of the White-Out.   ;-)


LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net



--
From: OK Don okd...@gmail.com
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 9:32 PM
To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare


That's what post-it notes on the side of the monitor are for 

On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 6:31 AM, LarryT l02tur...@comcast.net wrote:



 I wish Rustys site had a Wish List that lasted even when we log out!  I
often have a few small things to order the next time I need something big
but always forget about them!


--
OK Don
Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos



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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-11 Thread Gary Hurst

i'm very careful when i mess with rebuilt calipers and generally don't like
to buy or sell them.  back in the day, before benzbin and, particularly,
autohausaz walmarted a receptive public with cheap indian and chinese crap,
rusty and i wouldn't even sell rebuilt calipers unless our arms were twisted
severely.  today, however, there is no way to sell a brand new ate unit for
$200 when the garbage merchants have convinced that public that some
absolute garbage rebuilt in a sweat shop by an 8 year old chinese kid is
the same thing for $40

the public has absolutely rejected quality in favor of cheap.  it puts us in
the troubling position of either selling the junk you people absolutely and
unequivocally insist on despite our personal beliefs or simply closing up
shop and finding another livelihood.

it's not too late for y'all to repent your evil ways and prevent the total
annihilation of quality.  not that i'm really hopeful that any of you will,
but it's really not too late.



On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 OK Don okd...@gmail.com writes:

  Perhaps get a rebuild kit for the old caliper from Rusty - now that
  you've bought some time. It might be better than the one you
  bought. It's not that hard to rebuild one.

 There's a 50 core refund I'd give up.  Plus the cost of the kit.  Not
 worth it.  They were rebuilds too.  Only lasted 2 years.

 Allan

 --
 1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-10 Thread Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310

Had the pads out again and was on the pistons with a pry bar and a C clamp... 
they are definitely fully retracted.

Allan
--
1983 300D

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:19 -0400, archer arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:

 Thought I had the same problem on 123 calipers.  Stuck a large
 screwdriver in and levered the piston further into the caliper.  After
 that the pad on that side was tight but it went in with a little
 tapping and repositioning. The other side seemed to be stuck and
 didn't want to move with the screwdriver so; IIRC I stuck in a 3/8
 breakover handle with the end cocked 90 degrees and twisted it with a
 crescent wrench.  It broke loose and retracted and I was able to get
 the pad in. Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-10 Thread Rich Thomas

Did you bevel the edge a bit to get them started in there?  Just with a 
file or coarse sandpaper.


--R

Allan Streib wrote:

Had the pads out again and was on the pistons with a pry bar and a C clamp... 
they are definitely fully retracted.

Allan
--
1983 300D

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:19 -0400, archer arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:
  

Thought I had the same problem on 123 calipers.  Stuck a large
screwdriver in and levered the piston further into the caliper.  After
that the pad on that side was tight but it went in with a little
tapping and repositioning. The other side seemed to be stuck and
didn't want to move with the screwdriver so; IIRC I stuck in a 3/8
breakover handle with the end cocked 90 degrees and twisted it with a
crescent wrench.  It broke loose and retracted and I was able to get
the pad in. Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

On the earlier question about right pad vs. left, each box of front pads
has one for the right side of the rotor and one for the left side, but
these should be interchangeable between left side of car and right side.

Take a second look at all the dimensions like rotor thickness, pad
thickness, differences between left and right side of car, piston
retraction into the caliper (are both calipers the same brand?), the
shims on the back of the pad.  Sing as you work One of these brakes is
not like the others, one of these brakes just doesn't belong...

Max 

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:03 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

Had the pads out again and was on the pistons with a pry bar and a C
clamp... they are definitely fully retracted.

Allan
--
1983 300D

On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:19 -0400, archer arche...@embarqmail.com
wrote:

 Thought I had the same problem on 123 calipers.  Stuck a large 
 screwdriver in and levered the piston further into the caliper.  After

 that the pad on that side was tight but it went in with a little 
 tapping and repositioning. The other side seemed to be stuck and 
 didn't want to move with the screwdriver so; IIRC I stuck in a 3/8
 breakover handle with the end cocked 90 degrees and twisted it with a 
 crescent wrench.  It broke loose and retracted and I was able to get 
 the pad in. Gerry

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

The Akebono pads are beveled out of the box...

Allan
--
1983 300D

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:08 -0400, Rich Thomas 
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
 Did you bevel the edge a bit to get them started in there?  Just with
 a file or coarse sandpaper.

 --R

 Allan Streib wrote:
  Had the pads out again and was on the pistons with a pry bar and a C
  clamp... they are definitely fully retracted.
 
  Allan
  --
  1983 300D
 

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

For the rear pads, they were shrink-wrapped as two pairs of pads.

The fronts were four pads loose in the box.  I've had a look at the pads and 
don't see any distinguishing marks like direction arrows, L vs. R markings, 
etc.

I will measure the rotors; however both are new and appeared to be identical 
out of the box.

Calipers are likewise both new (rebuilt) but appear to be identical at a glance.

Allan



On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:15 -0400, Dillon, Meade M CIV 
SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil wrote:
 On the earlier question about right pad vs. left, each box of front pads
 has one for the right side of the rotor and one for the left side, but
 these should be interchangeable between left side of car and right side.
 
 Take a second look at all the dimensions like rotor thickness, pad
 thickness, differences between left and right side of car, piston
 retraction into the caliper (are both calipers the same brand?), the
 shims on the back of the pad.  Sing as you work One of these brakes is
 not like the others, one of these brakes just doesn't belong...
 
 Max 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
 [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib
 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:03 AM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare
 
 Had the pads out again and was on the pistons with a pry bar and a C
 clamp... they are definitely fully retracted.
 
 Allan
 --
 1983 300D
 
 On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:19 -0400, archer arche...@embarqmail.com
 wrote:
 
  Thought I had the same problem on 123 calipers.  Stuck a large 
  screwdriver in and levered the piston further into the caliper.  After
 
  that the pad on that side was tight but it went in with a little 
  tapping and repositioning. The other side seemed to be stuck and 
  didn't want to move with the screwdriver so; IIRC I stuck in a 3/8
  breakover handle with the end cocked 90 degrees and twisted it with a 
  crescent wrench.  It broke loose and retracted and I was able to get 
  the pad in. Gerry
 
 ___
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 http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/
 
 To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
 http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
 
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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-10 Thread Rich Thomas


Hmmm, I am thinking that if you bevel them more, then they will fit!

I had to do that on some pads I put on some vehicle, can't remember 
which, but that gave them enough bite to then be shoved on in.  The 
Akebono pads must be a bit higher quality.


--R

Allan Streib wrote:

The Akebono pads are beveled out of the box...

Allan
--
1983 300D

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:08 -0400, Rich Thomas 
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:
  

Did you bevel the edge a bit to get them started in there?  Just with
a file or coarse sandpaper.

--R

Allan Streib wrote:


Had the pads out again and was on the pistons with a pry bar and a C
clamp... they are definitely fully retracted.

Allan
--
1983 300D

  


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-10 Thread Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC, 53310

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:28 -0400, Rich Thomas 
richthomas79td...@constructivity.net wrote:

 Hmmm, I am thinking that if you bevel them more, then they will fit!
 
 I had to do that on some pads I put on some vehicle, can't remember 
 which, but that gave them enough bite to then be shoved on in.  The 
 Akebono pads must be a bit higher quality.

They supposedly are; they certainly are more expensive.  That's why I really 
don't want to grind them down if I don't have to.  But if I ground about 1/32 
or less off each side they'd probably fit.  It's close, but even tapping with a 
hammer I can't get them to slide on; I just start gouging the pads on the rotor 
edge.

Allan
--
1983 300D


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

Can you swap pads from the other caliper to see if they fit into the
problem caliper?

Max 

-Original Message-
From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
[mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib
Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:21 AM
To: Mercedes Discussion List
Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

For the rear pads, they were shrink-wrapped as two pairs of pads.

The fronts were four pads loose in the box.  I've had a look at the pads
and don't see any distinguishing marks like direction arrows, L vs.
R markings, etc.

I will measure the rotors; however both are new and appeared to be
identical out of the box.

Calipers are likewise both new (rebuilt) but appear to be identical at a
glance.

Allan

On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 09:15 -0400, Dillon, Meade M CIV
SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 meade.m.dil...@navy.mil wrote:
 On the earlier question about right pad vs. left, each box of front 
 pads has one for the right side of the rotor and one for the left 
 side, but these should be interchangeable between left side of car and
right side.

 Take a second look at all the dimensions like rotor thickness, pad 
 thickness, differences between left and right side of car, piston 
 retraction into the caliper (are both calipers the same brand?), the 
 shims on the back of the pad.  Sing as you work One of these brakes 
 is not like the others, one of these brakes just doesn't belong...

 Max

 -Original Message-
 From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com
 [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Allan Streib
 Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 9:03 AM
 To: Mercedes Discussion List
 Subject: Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

 Had the pads out again and was on the pistons with a pry bar and a C 
 clamp... they are definitely fully retracted.

 Allan
 --
 1983 300D

 On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 21:19 -0400, archer arche...@embarqmail.com
 wrote:

  Thought I had the same problem on 123 calipers.  Stuck a large 
  screwdriver in and levered the piston further into the caliper.  
  After

  that the pad on that side was tight but it went in with a little 
  tapping and repositioning. The other side seemed to be stuck and 
  didn't want to move with the screwdriver so; IIRC I stuck in a 3/8
  breakover handle with the end cocked 90 degrees and twisted it with 
  a crescent wrench.  It broke loose and retracted and I was able to 
  get the pad in. Gerry

 ___
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 http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

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 http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-10 Thread archer

Do the rotors have a lip on them from wear?  I didn't believe that high 
strength metal would flow except when heated with a torch until a front 
stub axle on the '83 300D that had overheated obviously flowed enough to 
prevent a new bearing race being installed.  (The problem was solved by 
using a Chinese bearing  race that was a looser fit.)  If there is a lip 
that makes the disc thicker than normal, that could be the problem although 
it's probably a far-fetched possibility.


One thing you might do is mike the new pads, take the micrometer to Autozone 
and mike their cheapest set.  If the cheap set is significantly thinner, you 
might try installing them until you have more time to solve the problem.

Gerry
---
From: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu
Had the pads out again and was on the pistons with a pry bar and a C 
clamp... they are definitely fully retracted.

Allan
1983 300D


 arche...@embarqmail.com wrote:

Thought I had the same problem on 123 calipers.  Stuck a large
screwdriver in and levered the piston further into the caliper.  After
that the pad on that side was tight but it went in with a little
tapping and repositioning. The other side seemed to be stuck and
didn't want to move with the screwdriver so; IIRC I stuck in a 3/8
breakover handle with the end cocked 90 degrees and twisted it with a
crescent wrench.  It broke loose and retracted and I was able to get
the pad in. Gerry



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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

Well the rotors and pads measured identical.  So must be the caliper.  I
ground the pads a bit and got the whole assembly to slide over the
rotor.  It's still dragging -- much tighter than the passenger side.
Once I get the system bled and a few start-stops I'll see how much it
still drags.  I think it's the inside pad that's too close.

What a pain in the a**

Allan
-- 
1983 300D

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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare

2009-09-10 Thread OK Don

Perhaps get a rebuild kit for the old caliper from Rusty - now that you've
bought some time. It might be better than the one you bought. It's not that
hard to rebuild one.

On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:58 PM, Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu wrote:

 Well the rotors and pads measured identical.  So must be the caliper.  I
 ground the pads a bit and got the whole assembly to slide over the
 rotor.  It's still dragging -- much tighter than the passenger side.
 Once I get the system bled and a few start-stops I'll see how much it
 still drags.  I think it's the inside pad that's too close.

 What a pain in the a**

 Allan
  --

 --
 OK Don
 Pair of W124 300D 2.5 Turbos


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Re: [MBZ] brake job nightmare