Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
I think what Debbie may be saying is that a script may somehow apprentice a teacher to better practice and techniques. I see some worth in this belief. Getting non-traditionally certified folks started with guided reading, I typically model for one week--sharing very, very detailed lesson plans which could be called scripts, I suppose. Then we write a set of these kinds of plans together--sometimes for a few weeks, amidst much talk of the children, their needs and the educational possibilities for the books in front of us. I do see this as apprenticeship--a means of getting started. The difference is, I go away. Granted I come back from time to time, but my goal is to refine practice rather than to define practice, working within the guidelines established by our district for balanced literacy instruction. The little books we use offer us many possibilities for focus in instruction, according to student need. The same story could be used instructionally to teacher text previewing, fluency, sentence structure and could indicate many possibilities for contextualized word study. Until these scripted programs come with a 'choose your own ending' option, I am just not sure it is fair to say that they will ensure the best literacy education possible for every student. The person most responsible for that has to be the classroom teacher. Lori Jackson - Original message - From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Yes and no, Lori. I can see giving a teacher a loose script to read through when first trying something out. The Investigations math program does something like this and they even have dialogue involving children in the classroom. I've used these supports from time to time. In fact, to prepare for two workshops I recently gave at our local Teacher's Convention, I did just that for myself. It was more a way for me to prepare than something I necessarily stuck to throughout my presentation. The DI programs expect you to follow their scripts as they are written. I also do not equate detailed lesson plans with scripts. Detailed lesson plans guide teachers along, as you say. They help you rehearse for when you need to do a lesson in front of a group of children. They shouldn't dictate everything you do in the classroom. There's a funny thing in all of this, though. Thinking teachers will naturally deviate from the script once they realize that it's not working for all children. This is where the real teaching comes in. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ I think what Debbie may be saying is that a script may somehow apprentice a teacher to better practice and techniques. I see some worth in this belief. Getting non-traditionally certified folks started with guided reading, I typically model for one week--sharing very, very detailed lesson plans which could be called scripts, I suppose. Then we write a set of these kinds of plans together--sometimes for a few weeks, amidst much talk of the children, their needs and the educational possibilities for the books in front of us. I do see this as apprenticeship--a means of getting started. The difference is, I go away. Granted I come back from time to time, but my goal is to refine practice rather than to define practice, working within the guidelines established by our district for balanced literacy instruction. The little books we use offer us many possibilities for focus in instruction, according to student need. The same story could be used instructionally to teacher text previewing, fluency, sentence structure and could indicate many possibilities for contextualized word study. Until these scripted programs come with a 'choose your own ending' option, I am just not sure it is fair to say that they will ensure the best literacy education possible for every student. The person most responsible for that has to be the classroom teacher. Lori Jackson - Original message - From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. -Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
--a means of getting started. The difference is, I go away. Granted I come back from time to time, but my goal is to refine practice rather than to define practice, working within the guidelines established by our district for balanced literacy instruction. The little books we use offer us many possibilities for focus in instruction, according to student need. The same story could be used instructionally to teacher text previewing, fluency, sentence structure and could indicate many possibilities for contextualized word study. Until these scripted programs come with a 'choose your own ending' option, I am just not sure it is fair to say that they will ensure the best literacy education possible for every student. The person most responsible for that has to be the classroom teacher. Lori Jackson - Original message - From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. -Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
There is ABSOLUTELY a difference between the script that Lori talks about below and the scripts in DI programs! Lori - you are SO right!! Your example makes me think of a mind script - most, if not all of us, need to see something in action before we can replicate it ourselves. That's what I think Lori is talking about here. That's not a script - that's an example, a model. That's what we are expected to do for our students and that's what we need for ourselves. After this thorough two week long modeling session that Lori does for her teachers they are then able to go off and try it themselves - they follow the model NOT the script - and she comes back to check with them - using the Gradual Release of Responsibility with teachers! They make it their own and because they're not following a script they don't miss what their kids do!!! They are more aware and present in the moment with their students. I love what you've written here and I will keep it in a safe place :-) Carrie -Original Message- From: Ljackson [mailto:ljack...@gwtc.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 7:08 AM To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking I think what Debbie may be saying is that a script may somehow apprentice a teacher to better practice and techniques. I see some worth in this belief. Getting non-traditionally certified folks started with guided reading, I typically model for one week--sharing very, very detailed lesson plans which could be called scripts, I suppose. Then we write a set of these kinds of plans together--sometimes for a few weeks, amidst much talk of the children, their needs and the educational possibilities for the books in front of us. I do see this as apprenticeship--a means of getting started. The difference is, I go away. Granted I come back from time to time, but my goal is to refine practice rather than to define practice, working within the guidelines established by our district for balanced literacy instruction. The little books we use offer us many possibilities for focus in instruction, according to student need. The same story could be used instructionally to teacher text previewing, fluency, sentence structure and could indicate many possibilities for contextualized word study. Until these scripted programs come with a 'choose your own ending' option, I am just not sure it is fair to say that they will ensure the best literacy education possible for every student. The person most responsible for that has to be the classroom teacher. Lori Jackson - Original message - From: Waingort Jimenez, Elisa elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Date: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 6:46 AM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking Debbie, And, whose idea is this learning to teach the right way that these DI scripts spouse? There is no right way to teach. There are philosophies which then guide our teaching practices. The teaching practices in DI programs are clearly scripted so that there is minimal out of the box thinking and everyone is on the same step at the same time (philosophy). There is no regard for different size thinking, rather there is disregard for the messy life of the classroom. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. -Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
- Original Message - From: ljackson Date: Sunday, February 22, 2009 8:00 pm Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group And those folks that equate doing their own things with flying by the seat of their pants aren't going to do much better with scripted programs. Lori On 2/22/09 4:34 PM, Renee wrote: Lori, I agree with everything you've said. I just don't think that because teachers might do their own thing is a good reason to buy a scripted program. I have no problem with following grade level curriculum, AND like the freedom of doing certain things my own way within those parameters. And, I will also admit to following the occasional teachable moment that is not related to my particular grade level curriculum, and I think it is important to grab on to those moments without fretting about losing time or worse wasting time. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 2:37 PM, ljackson wrote: Thoughts...generally, I agree but I believe that districts must strive to set meaningful parameters for teachers to work within. The notion of 'dong your own thing' is so singly teacher dependent that when you cannot guarantee the integrity and commitment of the teacher, it can be very dangerous. I base this on my experience with a few who equate flying by the seat of their pants with doing their own thing. Lori On 2/22/09 11:51 AM, Renee wrote: 1. Why can a piano student not learn to play the right way using a Beatles tune? 2. There is no THE right way to teach. 3. Some teachers' own thing is far, far more effective, meaningful, interesting, and motivating than a scripted lesson that purports to be the right thing. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Debbie Goodis wrote: Hello, I had to jump in here. My two cents. I used to take piano as a child. I would go to my lessons and then come back home, practice for 5 minutes and proceed to do my own thing. My father would scold me and say, Learn to play the right way, then you can play anyway you want! I knew what he meant. I was complaining that I had to play, Fur Elise, or some other classical piece when all I wanted to play was Joni Mitchell or The Beatles. He wanted me to learn HOW TO PLAY, get that foundation, and then move on to making my own music. He was right...it was a good foundation. I think the same goes for scripts. I used to hate them, too, but I understand why the powers that be think they are necessary. Too many teachers are doing their own thing, when they should be aware of research about good teaching. Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. I am a thinking teacher like all of you and when I am observed I am never using the script but I always get compliments on how well the students are engaged and thinking. No one has ever corrected the words I used during a lesson. We use a scripted program, but like all of you, I learned more from Lucy Calkins and Debbie Miller. I mostly use the scripts from those experts and like I said, I've never been corrected. With all that said, I know there are principals who wouldn't like anything other than the script being used during a lesson. That is unfortunate, and it tells me that those individuals are NOT thinking either! Hope that helps.. From: teach2h...@aol.com To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:59:15 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me. But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
What is the Learning Pad site? Our school just started Writing Workshop (Lucy Calkins). So have seen significant results in the 4th grade. We had 69.2 % score 7 - 12 points in the writing. Usually the students score no more that 5 - 6 points. That's great for our school. Have not achieved that before! b 20, 2009 at 4:59 PM, teach2h...@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. Scripts can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my thoughts. Cynthia Hart Lexington **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. ( http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0003 ) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. -- Jane A. Watson Curriculum Strategist Ruston Elementary School 200 N. Bernard St. Ruston, La 71270 FAX # - 318.255-4728 Work # - 1.318.255.4714 ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Hello, I had to jump in here. My two cents. I used to take piano as a child. I would go to my lessons and then come back home, practice for 5 minutes and proceed to do my own thing. My father would scold me and say, Learn to play the right way, then you can play anyway you want! I knew what he meant. I was complaining that I had to play, Fur Elise, or some other classical piece when all I wanted to play was Joni Mitchell or The Beatles. He wanted me to learn HOW TO PLAY, get that foundation, and then move on to making my own music. He was right...it was a good foundation. I think the same goes for scripts. I used to hate them, too, but I understand why the powers that be think they are necessary. Too many teachers are doing their own thing, when they should be aware of research about good teaching. Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. I am a thinking teacher like all of you and when I am observed I am never using the script but I always get compliments on how well the students are engaged and thinking. No one has ever corrected the words I used during a lesson. We use a scripted program, but like all of you, I learned more from Lucy Calkins and Debbie Miller. I mostly use the scripts from those experts and like I said, I've never been corrected. With all that said, I know there are principals who wouldn't like anything other than the script being used during a lesson. That is unfortunate, and it tells me that those individuals are NOT thinking either! Hope that helps.. From: teach2h...@aol.com teach2h...@aol.com To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:59:15 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. Scripts can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my thoughts. Cynthia Hart Lexington **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0003) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
1. Why can a piano student not learn to play the right way using a Beatles tune? 2. There is no THE right way to teach. 3. Some teachers' own thing is far, far more effective, meaningful, interesting, and motivating than a scripted lesson that purports to be the right thing. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Debbie Goodis wrote: Hello, I had to jump in here. My two cents. I used to take piano as a child. I would go to my lessons and then come back home, practice for 5 minutes and proceed to do my own thing. My father would scold me and say, Learn to play the right way, then you can play anyway you want! I knew what he meant. I was complaining that I had to play, Fur Elise, or some other classical piece when all I wanted to play was Joni Mitchell or The Beatles. He wanted me to learn HOW TO PLAY, get that foundation, and then move on to making my own music. He was right...it was a good foundation. I think the same goes for scripts. I used to hate them, too, but I understand why the powers that be think they are necessary. Too many teachers are doing their own thing, when they should be aware of research about good teaching. Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. I am a thinking teacher like all of you and when I am observed I am never using the script but I always get compliments on how well the students are engaged and thinking. No one has ever corrected the words I used during a lesson. We use a scripted program, but like all of you, I learned more from Lucy Calkins and Debbie Miller. I mostly use the scripts from those experts and like I said, I've never been corrected. With all that said, I know there are principals who wouldn't like anything other than the script being used during a lesson. That is unfortunate, and it tells me that those individuals are NOT thinking either! Hope that helps.. From: teach2h...@aol.com teach2h...@aol.com To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:59:15 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. Scripts can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my thoughts. Cynthia Hart Lexington **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search? query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0003) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. And in the end, the love you take is equal to the love you make. ~ John Lennon / Paul McCartney ~ Carry That Weight ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
BUT, Renee, I think there are most definitely WRONG WAYS to teach. And some teachers really do not know the right ways. It isn't usually their fault...but we ALL know they are out there. I am thinking that it is our responsibility as professionals to build up, not only our own knowledge base but those of our colleagues. I don't believe programs are the answer...but yet I do not see our country has any systematic way for teachers to improve their craft. I can understand, on a level, why administrators want to try to ensure some level of expertise through providing teachers with a program. It is wrong-headed...it penalizes the teachers who DO have the expertise and really does little, in the end to improve the knowledge of those teachers who do need help. But what else is there? In working on my literature review for a possible dissertation research study on lesson study, I have been reading a great deal about what happens in Japan. Professional development begins at the school level. Teachers' desks are not in classrooms, but in a common area to encourage dialogue between teachers. Teachers are given time to dialogue with each other...in fact it is expected. Teachers regularly engage in lesson study, not with every lesson, but with several lessons a year...they plan together...watch each other teach and then revise the lesson and reteach. While some great lessons evolve from this process (in fact, Japanese text book companies draw from these great lessons developed by teachers and include them in their new editions), the great power and benefit comes from the process rather than the product. Teachers develop a strong knowledge of what kinds of misconceptions their students might be expected to have when content knowledge is presented in a certain way. They work together to develop great manipulatives that overcome student misconceptions. They develop an eye to see children (Catherine Lewis). Japanese teachers who are avid readers of American constructivist experts, particularly in math and science, have revolutionized the way they teach math and science...but it didn't come from above. It came from the practitioners...and worked up to the policy makers. Ellin, you talk about teachers not having time to read research. I think we need to change that paradigm. What if the teachers WERE the researchers? What if we deliberately took an inquiry approach at the school level and worked as teachers to figure out what would work for our schools and our students? There would be tremendous power for positive change generated by that approach. To me, that is what leadership in literacy requireswe must build capacity in the teachers and then let them do the work they are trained to do! We can complain all we want about programs...but what are we doing as a profession to ensure that our teachers have the content knowledge and pedagogical skill to be able to make effective decisions for children? That is a rhetorical question, of course, but one worth consideration by the great minds on this listserv. One thing we all do from participation on this listserv, is build content knowledge regarding the teaching of comprehension. We get newbies here on this list all the time, wanting to get started and needing information about how to go about effective comprehension instruction. We can feel good that we are helping our fellow professionals to improve their teaching when we dialogue on comprehension strategies. Jennifer In a message dated 2/22/2009 1:52:42 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, phoenix...@sbcglobal.net writes: . There is no THE right way to teach. 3. Some teachers' own thing is far, far more effective, meaningful, interesting, and motivating than a scripted lesson that purports to be the right thing. Renee **You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0002) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Thoughts...generally, I agree but I believe that districts must strive to set meaningful parameters for teachers to work within. The notion of 'dong your own thing' is so singly teacher dependent that when you cannot guarantee the integrity and commitment of the teacher, it can be very dangerous. I base this on my experience with a few who equate flying by the seat of their pants with doing their own thing. Lori On 2/22/09 11:51 AM, Renee phoenix...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1. Why can a piano student not learn to play the right way using a Beatles tune? 2. There is no THE right way to teach. 3. Some teachers' own thing is far, far more effective, meaningful, interesting, and motivating than a scripted lesson that purports to be the right thing. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Debbie Goodis wrote: Hello, I had to jump in here. My two cents. I used to take piano as a child. I would go to my lessons and then come back home, practice for 5 minutes and proceed to do my own thing. My father would scold me and say, Learn to play the right way, then you can play anyway you want! I knew what he meant. I was complaining that I had to play, Fur Elise, or some other classical piece when all I wanted to play was Joni Mitchell or The Beatles. He wanted me to learn HOW TO PLAY, get that foundation, and then move on to making my own music. He was right...it was a good foundation. I think the same goes for scripts. I used to hate them, too, but I understand why the powers that be think they are necessary. Too many teachers are doing their own thing, when they should be aware of research about good teaching. Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. I am a thinking teacher like all of you and when I am observed I am never using the script but I always get compliments on how well the students are engaged and thinking. No one has ever corrected the words I used during a lesson. We use a scripted program, but like all of you, I learned more from Lucy Calkins and Debbie Miller. I mostly use the scripts from those experts and like I said, I've never been corrected. With all that said, I know there are principals who wouldn't like anything other than the script being used during a lesson. That is unfortunate, and it tells me that those individuals are NOT thinking either! Hope that helps.. From: teach2h...@aol.com teach2h...@aol.com To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:59:15 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. Scripts can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my thoughts. Cynthia Hart Lexington **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search? query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0003) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/ mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
I would say that a wrong way to teach would be to not pay attention to children's needs, in favor of following a set curriculum/scope and sequence/pacing guide. :-) Yes there are teachers out there teaching in wrong ways and, I fear, their numbers will increase rather than decrese with the growing proliferation of scripted programs and calls for fidelity to any programs, scripted or not. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 12:59 PM, cnjpal...@aol.com wrote: BUT, Renee, I think there are most definitely WRONG WAYS to teach. And some teachers really do not know the right ways. It isn't usually their fault...but we ALL know they are out there. Learning isn't a means to an end; it is an end in itself. ~ Robert A. Heinlein ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Lori, I agree with everything you've said. I just don't think that because teachers might do their own thing is a good reason to buy a scripted program. I have no problem with following grade level curriculum, AND like the freedom of doing certain things my own way within those parameters. And, I will also admit to following the occasional teachable moment that is not related to my particular grade level curriculum, and I think it is important to grab on to those moments without fretting about losing time or worse wasting time. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 2:37 PM, ljackson wrote: Thoughts...generally, I agree but I believe that districts must strive to set meaningful parameters for teachers to work within. The notion of 'dong your own thing' is so singly teacher dependent that when you cannot guarantee the integrity and commitment of the teacher, it can be very dangerous. I base this on my experience with a few who equate flying by the seat of their pants with doing their own thing. Lori On 2/22/09 11:51 AM, Renee phoenix...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1. Why can a piano student not learn to play the right way using a Beatles tune? 2. There is no THE right way to teach. 3. Some teachers' own thing is far, far more effective, meaningful, interesting, and motivating than a scripted lesson that purports to be the right thing. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Debbie Goodis wrote: Hello, I had to jump in here. My two cents. I used to take piano as a child. I would go to my lessons and then come back home, practice for 5 minutes and proceed to do my own thing. My father would scold me and say, Learn to play the right way, then you can play anyway you want! I knew what he meant. I was complaining that I had to play, Fur Elise, or some other classical piece when all I wanted to play was Joni Mitchell or The Beatles. He wanted me to learn HOW TO PLAY, get that foundation, and then move on to making my own music. He was right...it was a good foundation. I think the same goes for scripts. I used to hate them, too, but I understand why the powers that be think they are necessary. Too many teachers are doing their own thing, when they should be aware of research about good teaching. Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. I am a thinking teacher like all of you and when I am observed I am never using the script but I always get compliments on how well the students are engaged and thinking. No one has ever corrected the words I used during a lesson. We use a scripted program, but like all of you, I learned more from Lucy Calkins and Debbie Miller. I mostly use the scripts from those experts and like I said, I've never been corrected. With all that said, I know there are principals who wouldn't like anything other than the script being used during a lesson. That is unfortunate, and it tells me that those individuals are NOT thinking either! Hope that helps.. From: teach2h...@aol.com teach2h...@aol.com To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:59:15 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. Scripts can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
And those folks that equate doing their own things with flying by the seat of their pants aren't going to do much better with scripted programs. Lori On 2/22/09 4:34 PM, Renee phoenix...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Lori, I agree with everything you've said. I just don't think that because teachers might do their own thing is a good reason to buy a scripted program. I have no problem with following grade level curriculum, AND like the freedom of doing certain things my own way within those parameters. And, I will also admit to following the occasional teachable moment that is not related to my particular grade level curriculum, and I think it is important to grab on to those moments without fretting about losing time or worse wasting time. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 2:37 PM, ljackson wrote: Thoughts...generally, I agree but I believe that districts must strive to set meaningful parameters for teachers to work within. The notion of 'dong your own thing' is so singly teacher dependent that when you cannot guarantee the integrity and commitment of the teacher, it can be very dangerous. I base this on my experience with a few who equate flying by the seat of their pants with doing their own thing. Lori On 2/22/09 11:51 AM, Renee phoenix...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1. Why can a piano student not learn to play the right way using a Beatles tune? 2. There is no THE right way to teach. 3. Some teachers' own thing is far, far more effective, meaningful, interesting, and motivating than a scripted lesson that purports to be the right thing. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Debbie Goodis wrote: Hello, I had to jump in here. My two cents. I used to take piano as a child. I would go to my lessons and then come back home, practice for 5 minutes and proceed to do my own thing. My father would scold me and say, Learn to play the right way, then you can play anyway you want! I knew what he meant. I was complaining that I had to play, Fur Elise, or some other classical piece when all I wanted to play was Joni Mitchell or The Beatles. He wanted me to learn HOW TO PLAY, get that foundation, and then move on to making my own music. He was right...it was a good foundation. I think the same goes for scripts. I used to hate them, too, but I understand why the powers that be think they are necessary. Too many teachers are doing their own thing, when they should be aware of research about good teaching. Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. I am a thinking teacher like all of you and when I am observed I am never using the script but I always get compliments on how well the students are engaged and thinking. No one has ever corrected the words I used during a lesson. We use a scripted program, but like all of you, I learned more from Lucy Calkins and Debbie Miller. I mostly use the scripts from those experts and like I said, I've never been corrected. With all that said, I know there are principals who wouldn't like anything other than the script being used during a lesson. That is unfortunate, and it tells me that those individuals are NOT thinking either! Hope that helps.. From: teach2h...@aol.com teach2h...@aol.com To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:59:15 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Lori, I agree. That's why my district purchases a program. The only one out there right now that focuses on comprehension strategies is Rigby's Literacy by Design. While it may not be ideal, it does set parameters for the teachers. My district has 8 elementary schools and by purchasing a program, administration feels that everyone will be accountable. -Original Message- From: mosaic-boun...@literacyworkshop.org [mailto:mosaic-boun...@literacyworkshop.org] On Behalf Of ljackson Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2009 5:38 PM To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking Thoughts...generally, I agree but I believe that districts must strive to set meaningful parameters for teachers to work within. The notion of 'dong your own thing' is so singly teacher dependent that when you cannot guarantee the integrity and commitment of the teacher, it can be very dangerous. I base this on my experience with a few who equate flying by the seat of their pants with doing their own thing. Lori On 2/22/09 11:51 AM, Renee phoenix...@sbcglobal.net wrote: 1. Why can a piano student not learn to play the right way using a Beatles tune? 2. There is no THE right way to teach. 3. Some teachers' own thing is far, far more effective, meaningful, interesting, and motivating than a scripted lesson that purports to be the right thing. Renee On Feb 22, 2009, at 10:26 AM, Debbie Goodis wrote: Hello, I had to jump in here. My two cents. I used to take piano as a child. I would go to my lessons and then come back home, practice for 5 minutes and proceed to do my own thing. My father would scold me and say, Learn to play the right way, then you can play anyway you want! I knew what he meant. I was complaining that I had to play, Fur Elise, or some other classical piece when all I wanted to play was Joni Mitchell or The Beatles. He wanted me to learn HOW TO PLAY, get that foundation, and then move on to making my own music. He was right...it was a good foundation. I think the same goes for scripts. I used to hate them, too, but I understand why the powers that be think they are necessary. Too many teachers are doing their own thing, when they should be aware of research about good teaching. Scripts make sure we learn to teach the right way so that we can then incorporate those techniques and make them our own. I am a thinking teacher like all of you and when I am observed I am never using the script but I always get compliments on how well the students are engaged and thinking. No one has ever corrected the words I used during a lesson. We use a scripted program, but like all of you, I learned more from Lucy Calkins and Debbie Miller. I mostly use the scripts from those experts and like I said, I've never been corrected. With all that said, I know there are principals who wouldn't like anything other than the script being used during a lesson. That is unfortunate, and it tells me that those individuals are NOT thinking either! Hope that helps.. From: teach2h...@aol.com teach2h...@aol.com To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 2:59:15 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. Scripts can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
My instructional facilitator always says a good quality curriculum is the floor...not the ceiling. Think about Ellin's What's Essential list. If everyone works from that, every teacher our students have from K-12 will have a focus that will benefit literacy development. That's the floor...what every child needs. If the child's interests and needs draw us to teach something else...then great. One has to have a vision for what children should know and be able to do in order to make the teachable moments really work for the child. The What's Essential list does that. Jennifer **You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0002) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Felicia, I think you've already started on a path to teaching reading differently. I bet you are already doing some of the things you've read about on this list and that you got from your Ellin Keene/Debbie Miller session. It's hard not to since it all makes so much sense, no pun intended. Even though you feel you need to do the workbook pages is there any way you can just assign these for homework?? You can do a quick review of the pages the following day or you can have the kids pair up and compare answers. Then, you would only need to focus on those questions that the kids had trouble with. That would free up your classroom time to do some of the things you would love to do because they help children love to read and become better readers. If you try any of these ideas or others, please share with us. Good luck! Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ I'm mostly a lurker but I really enjoy the comprehension strategy discussion on the listserv. My district currently uses a scripted reading program. The anthology( all authentic literature) is not bad but we're married to the workbook that goes along with it. I follow the program only because I feel I have to. Without the workbook, I'm afraid my students would not do well on the required theme tests that come with the program. Ever since I join this listserv I realized that what I am currently doing does not make my students (first grade) more thoughtful and reflective readers. So I paid out of my own pocket to go see ellin and Debbie Miller. I've read many of the books you discuss here. I keep abreast of what those of you on this listserv do in hopes that one day I can be a regular contributor to the site. I think my district likes the scripted program because it keeps all the teachers on the same page. I teach in a district that has 9 elementary schools. With that said, some teachers in my district are piloting a program from Rigby called Literacy by Design. It's a balanced literacy program with authors such as Hoyt, Marzano and Opitz (http://rigby.harcourtachieve.com/en-US/literacydesign_authors) among others. While it's probably not ideal, if the district adopts the program, it will bring us closer to what many of you are doing in your classroom. I teach in NJ and the state is in the process of revising the Core Curriculum Content Standards. I'm excited about what they're proposing because much of it leans to balanced literacy. They reference Harvey and Goudvis, Calkins, and Keene and Zimmerman and their respective books. While these are only proposed changes, chances are they'll pass. If anyone one wants to look at them, you can go to http://www.state.nj.us/education/aps/cccs/2009/lal/index.html I'm hoping that the listserv gets back to discussing comprehension strategies. I live vicariously through many of you and hope one day to be teaching reading just like you. Felicia ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. Scripts can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my thoughts. Cynthia Hart Lexington **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0003) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
I think we need to clarify scripts. To me, scripts are word for word texts for lessons that we need to say, with fidelity, or else (according to the creators of the program) we won't get the amazing results they claim. I think the reason DI programs are so attractive is that they mold automaton kids and teachers - kind of Stepford teachers and children. Teachers feel in control because they are in control. DI emphasizes the easiest and least important aspects of literacy: phonics and literal comprehension. A phrase here and there does not a script make. Let's not be so polite that we can't just come out and say things as they are. Our kids deserve more. We, the teachers, deserve more. I don't think there is anything of value in DI programs. The only thing they do is dumb down both teachers and students. What is interesting to me about this whole thread and sub thread is how far away they have taken us from talk of comprehension and strategy instruction. Again, we are being led astray to discuss things that don't add anything of value to the purpose for which the Mosaic list was established. Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. Helen Keller Visit my blog, A Teacher's Ruminations, and post a message. http://waingortgrade2spanishbilingual.blogspot.com/ In a message dated 2/20/2009 12:23:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, mosaic-requ...@literacyworkshop.org writes: think scripts have a place for some teachers especially if Just food for thought:) Did any of us in our journey through learning how to teach comprehension strategies and transforming our classrooms into literate rich communities ever use Debbie Millers script? Did you say over and over again So, how did that help you as a reader? so many times that you felt it was a recording? Possibly, but I bet you moved on to even deeper conversation. You moved on with your readers and where they were in their journey. I sure did use those scripts and sometimes still do. . . especially when something is still new to me.But, I am a thinking teacher and appreciate Debbie and Lucy's words as a model and use them until they become comfortable and become my own versions. . . until I am able to move past them and mold my own words according to the readers I am with and their needs. Thank you so much Lucy for giving me the think about reading worker script I love to use! Thank you so much to the Learning Pad site that has some wonderful scripting. I did not think of any of these great ideas, but used the ideas to aide my own understanding and thinking. Do we not provide scripts for our own readers in our classroom as we model conversations in reader's share each day? Eventually, they are asking these same questions of others and more importantly of themselves when they think about their thinking. Scripts can have their place in learning. Starting with a script of some sort doesn't mean one is going to rely on them always but is just using it as a jumping point. Some may not ever need them, some may. Just my thoughts. Cynthia Hart Lexington **Need a job? Find an employment agency near you. (http://yellowpages.aol.com/search?query=employment_agenciesncid=emlcntusyelp0003) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
Elisa Thank you. You are right. I know you are reflecting the views of many since my mailbox is filling with off-list pleas to bring the list back to a discussion of comprehension. I know the discussion we've been having is important and I don't want to censor anyone...but I would like us as a group to reflect upon the purpose we were created for... If you go to the Mosaic home page, this is what you will find: The idea for this group was born out of the teachers taking the journey through this instructional paradigm. Wanting to jump right in and get started, but often feeling unsure and alone, we wanted a forum to share our questions, our joys, our successes, and our frustrations. Reading the book, Mosaic of Thought, (or any of the other books mentioned above) will strengthen your connection to our conversations. Some of the most powerful emails have been when members reflect openly on the email group about their teaching. Being reflective “outloud” on the list is one way to grow professionally. Try taking the risk to tell us specifically what you are doing. Talk with us about how you feel the teaching went and what you plan to do next. When we share our own thinking (just like we are asking our students to do) we often move to a new level of clarity and understanding. Here are the focus points we welcome discussion about: * comprehension strategy instruction * questions about implementation * action research conducted by teachers based on experiences in strategy teaching * reading workshop * authentic assessment * strategy instruction as it relates to high stakes testing * professional reading suggestions/reflections to continue our learning process * lesson write ups/book suggestions * online book talks related to comprehension teaching We are looking forward to an active, stimulating, and supportive discussion with you on these topics! Remember- no question is too simple to ask. I appreciate the respectful tone the discussions take...but I am thinking at this point, we might want to consider the reason we all came to Mosaic was to discuss comprehension. Maybe it is time we get back to that... Jennifer List moderator In a message dated 2/20/2009 8:46:50 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, elwaingor...@cbe.ab.ca writes: What is interesting to me about this whole thread and sub thread is how far away they have taken us from talk of comprehension and strategy instruction. Again, we are being led astray to discuss things that don't add anything of value to the purpose for which the Mosaic list was established. Elisa Elisa Waingort **You can't always choose whom you love, but you can choose how to find them. Start with AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove0002) ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking
I'm mostly a lurker but I really enjoy the comprehension strategy discussion on the listserv. My district currently uses a scripted reading program. The anthology( all authentic literature) is not bad but we're married to the workbook that goes along with it. I follow the program only because I feel I have to. Without the workbook, I'm afraid my students would not do well on the required theme tests that come with the program. Ever since I join this listserv I realized that what I am currently doing does not make my students (first grade) more thoughtful and reflective readers. So I paid out of my own pocket to go see ellin and Debbie Miller. I've read many of the books you discuss here. I keep abreast of what those of you on this listserv do in hopes that one day I can be a regular contributor to the site. I think my district likes the scripted program because it keeps all the teachers on the same page. I teach in a district that has 9 elementary schools. With that said, some teachers in my district are piloting a program from Rigby called Literacy by Design. It's a balanced literacy program with authors such as Hoyt, Marzano and Opitz (http://rigby.harcourtachieve.com/en-US/literacydesign_authors) among others. While it's probably not ideal, if the district adopts the program, it will bring us closer to what many of you are doing in your classroom. I teach in NJ and the state is in the process of revising the Core Curriculum Content Standards. I'm excited about what they're proposing because much of it leans to balanced literacy. They reference Harvey and Goudvis, Calkins, and Keene and Zimmerman and their respective books. While these are only proposed changes, chances are they'll pass. If anyone one wants to look at them, you can go to http://www.state.nj.us/education/aps/cccs/2009/lal/index.html I'm hoping that the listserv gets back to discussing comprehension strategies. I live vicariously through many of you and hope one day to be teaching reading just like you. Felicia -Original Message- From: mosaic-boun...@literacyworkshop.org [mailto:mosaic-boun...@literacyworkshop.org] On Behalf Of cnjpal...@aol.com Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 9:58 PM To: mosaic@literacyworkshop.org Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] scripts and thinking ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
