Re: newbie install
>> I have set up IMAP gmail with Thunderbird and wondered about POP and >> SMTP. Gmail has an odd way of handling IMAP which i'm not sure about. >> Using as webmail Gmail has an Inbox, Sent and All Mail box - when >> using Thunderbird in IMAP all incoming mail remains in the Inbox, then >> has to be archived manually [by going back to webmail] to put it in >> the All Mail box. Gmail is very clever with its conversations feature >> and this is why it has this All Mail box i guess but i didn't find a >> away of archiving the Inbox to All Mail > > I'm a bit confused about what you mean by "archiving the Inbox > to All Mail". If you're using IMAP and if you don't want to > see an e-mail in the Inbox folder any more, then delete it. > > It'll still be there in the "All Mail" box. I know it's a bit of a while back when we were on this post but i've now seen what is intended [i think] with imap on a gmail account. I understand what is meant by labels but couldn't see what one is supposed to do with the inbox - google have bright ideas!!! If using a mail client on POP the inbox is kept empty on the server as it is archived to All Mail as soon as it is retrieved to the email client. It seems to me that they intended similar logic when thought of connection for IMAP. Yes the Inbox and Sent are labels but when one goes to the Inbox filters entering "" in FROM and then selecting ARCHIVE allows for immediate archiving of all incoming mail and no manual deletion [or archiving]. Think that's what they intended - they do seem to think of everything! Perhaps everyone else has spotted that and i'm just thick! james
Re: newbie install
On 26Feb2009 10:41, I wrote: | On 25Feb2009 23:04, James Freer wrote: | An X11 geometry has the form: | DXxDY+PX+PY Oh yes: you can leave off the DXxDY or +PX+PY parts if you only care about the position or size respectively, so 80x24 and +5-6 are valid. -- Cameron Simpson DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ If all around you is darkness and you feel you're contending in vain, then the light at the end of the tunnel is the front of an oncoming train.
Re: newbie install
On 25Feb2009 23:04, James Freer wrote: | Many thanks for that. That did work but i changed it as i like vim | [with no menu] as opposed to gvim. I like a bare screen! | | gnome-terminal --hide-menubar --geometry 200x60+200+200 -e vim %t | | I wanted to learn about the syntax for geometry but man gnome-terminal | just had the following | "X geometry specification (see "X" man page), can be specified". man | "X"? no entry Yeah, though there should be in section 7, outlining stuff like this. Maybe it went west with the XFee86->Xorg transition. An X11 geometry has the form: DXxDY+PX+PY +PX+PY specifies the position of the window corner in pixel coordinates. +PX means pixels to the right, from the left of the screen. +PY means pixles down from the top of the screen. Both may take negative forms eg -5 means five pixels _left_ from the right screen edge or five pixels _up_ from the bottom screen edge. The corner changes with the sign, too: +0+0 positions the top left window corner while -5-5 positions the bottom right window corner, and +5-10 positions the bottom left window corner. The DX and DY specify the window width in the natural units of the app. For most things this is pixels, but for terminal emulators it means character width and height in the font to be used. Also for terminal emulators, it will normally control the imaging/text area, and not account for any menu bars etc. If you want precise control of the outer perimeter (as I do, to tile terminals across the screen), you are better off getting your window mangler to do it if it has the flexibility. (Or ensure the terminal has no junk like menu bars or scroll bars, as you and I both seem to do.) Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ Computer manufacturers have been failing to deliver working systems on time and to budget since Babbage. - Jack Schofield, in The Guardian
Re: newbie install
2009/2/22 Chris G : > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:45:50AM +, James Freer wrote: >> 2009/2/22 James Freer : >> > 2009/2/22 Chris G : >> >> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:39:05AM +0800, bill lam wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: >> >>> > some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of >> >>> > the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose >> >>> > emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to >> >>> > the mouse while editing emails. >> >>> >> >>> There is also a firefox addon "it's all text" that allow using >> >>> external editors for textarea editing such writing emails for >> >>> webmails. >> >>> >> >> ... and mozex which does almost exactly the same but also adds other >> >> external program facilities to Firefox. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Chris Green >> > >> > I looked at mozex once and thought it was only for old versions of >> > Firefox. Go to the website and you can download the FF3 version >> > [mozilla a little slow on their updates]? >> > >> > 'ItsallText' i haven't got working somehow. For gmail one has got to >> > do a bash script from what i can gather. Mozex is fine for me and is >> > obviously similar to the addon for Thunderbird. >> > >> > What have i learnt? Keep looking periodically at all addons - they >> > have put on alot this past year (don't think i've looked for a year). >> > >> > james >> > >> >> I've just been looking at mozex. the "xterm -e vim %t" that one enters >> for the editor leaves one with a small font. I hoped "xterm -fs 16 -e >> vim %t" might improve things. How can one get over this? >> > You can of course use a GUI editor which eliminates the requirement > for an xterm at all, e.g. I have:- > > xvile -geometry 200x60+200+200 %t > > For vim/gvim simply put 'gvim' instead of 'xvile' above, I assume it > will understand the standard X "-geometry". > > -- > Chris Green > Chris Many thanks for that. That did work but i changed it as i like vim [with no menu] as opposed to gvim. I like a bare screen! gnome-terminal --hide-menubar --geometry 200x60+200+200 -e vim %t I wanted to learn about the syntax for geometry but man gnome-terminal just had the following "X geometry specification (see "X" man page), can be specified". man "X"? no entry thanks james once per window to be opened.
Re: newbie install
* Gary Johnson on Monday, February 23, 2009 at 08:41:28 -0800 > According to the www.meriam-webster.com entry for hyphen (noun), www.merriam-webster.com SCNR But don't worry, they have a redirect rule for /your/ address ;-) c -- \black\trash movie_C O W B O Y_ _C A N O E_ _C O M A_ Ein deutscher Western/A German Western -->> http://www.blacktrash.org/underdogma/ccc.html -->> http://www.blacktrash.org/underdogma/ccc-en.html
Re: newbie install
On 2009-02-23, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:19:33AM -0800, Gary Johnson wrote: > > On 2009-02-21, Chris Bannister wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:55:00AM -0500, Noah Sheppard wrote: > > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:44:45AM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > > > > > [..] > > > > > Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) > > > > > > > > We are computer geeks; pedantry is never off-track. > > >^ > > > No need for the hyphen; you are not splitting a word. > > > > Hyphens are not used only for splitting words; they are also used > > for joining words to form compounds, as when forming a single > > adjective as in "ten-foot pole" or "off-track pedantry". In the > > But "tenfoot" is not a word. I don't see any ambiguity in "ten foot > pole", in fact "ten-foot pole" looks weird and possibly insulting to the > reader. I didn't say "tenfoot" was a word. See below. > According to my dictionary: > > hyphen. 1. n. Sign (-) used to join two words or divide a word into > parts (e.g. man-trap, re-echo). > 2. v.t. Join, divide, with h. According to the www.meriam-webster.com entry for hyphen (noun), a punctuation mark - used especially to divide or to compound words, word elements, or numbers The proper use of hyphens is discussed in manuals of style. For example, http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/compounds.htm says, Modifying compounds are often hyphenated to avoid confusion. The New York Public Library's Writer's Guide points out that an old-furniture salesman clearly deals in old furniture, but an old furniture salesman would be an old man. We probably would not have the same ambiguity, however, about a used car dealer. When compounded modifiers precede a noun, they are often hyphenated: part-time teacher, fifty-yard-wide field, fire-resistant curtains, high-speed chase. When those same modifying words come after the noun, however, they are not hyphenated: a field fifty yards wide, curtains that are fire resistant, etc. The second-rate opera company gave a performance that was first rate. See also http://www.nyu.edu/classes/copyXediting/Hyphens.html. Regards, Gary
Re: newbie install
On 23Feb2009 10:21, Chris G wrote: | On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 03:58:52PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: | > On 22Feb2009 10:45, James Freer wrote: | > | I've just been looking at mozex. the "xterm -e vim %t" that one enters | > | for the editor leaves one with a small font. I hoped "xterm -fs 16 -e | > | vim %t" might improve things. How can one get over this? | > | > The best way is to edit your .Xdefaults file to add suitable defaults | > for the XTerm client. Mine includes: | > | > XTerm*boldFont: 5x8 | > XTerm*font: 5x8 | > | > which I'm sure you'll find too small. See "man xterm" for the extensive | > list of available settings. | > | but xterm is pretty horrible compared with alternatives nowadays. Sure, but one thing at a time. | For a basic (but better) xterm use rxvt, smaller and does everything | just as well. For soemthing that integrates into your/my environment | use gnome-terminal or xfce4-terminal or whatever the equivalent is for | you. I use rxvt-unicode, myself. (Or iTerm on a Mac.) | These all (IMHO) look nicer than xterm, they all use the same | innards basically (well, gnome-terminal and xfce4-terminal do) and | they're actually very lightweight because multiple instances all use | the same process (or soemthing like that). OK, one instance will use | more resource than rxvt but ten terminals will use less than ten rxvts. Likewise with rxvt-unicode, if you start a urxvtd and invoke urxvtc (client). Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things bought and sold are the legislators. - P.J. O'Rourke
Re: newbie install
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 03:58:52PM +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: > On 22Feb2009 10:45, James Freer wrote: > | I've just been looking at mozex. the "xterm -e vim %t" that one enters > | for the editor leaves one with a small font. I hoped "xterm -fs 16 -e > | vim %t" might improve things. How can one get over this? > > The best way is to edit your .Xdefaults file to add suitable defaults > for the XTerm client. Mine includes: > > XTerm*boldFont: 5x8 > XTerm*font: 5x8 > > which I'm sure you'll find too small. See "man xterm" for the extensive > list of available settings. > but xterm is pretty horrible compared with alternatives nowadays. For a basic (but better) xterm use rxvt, smaller and does everything just as well. For soemthing that integrates into your/my environment use gnome-terminal or xfce4-terminal or whatever the equivalent is for you. These all (IMHO) look nicer than xterm, they all use the same innards basically (well, gnome-terminal and xfce4-terminal do) and they're actually very lightweight because multiple instances all use the same process (or soemthing like that). OK, one instance will use more resource than rxvt but ten terminals will use less than ten rxvts. -- Chris Green
Re: newbie install
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 10:19:33AM -0800, Gary Johnson wrote: > On 2009-02-21, Chris Bannister wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:55:00AM -0500, Noah Sheppard wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:44:45AM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > > > > [..] > > > > Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) > > > > > > We are computer geeks; pedantry is never off-track. > >^ > > No need for the hyphen; you are not splitting a word. > > Hyphens are not used only for splitting words; they are also used > for joining words to form compounds, as when forming a single > adjective as in "ten-foot pole" or "off-track pedantry". In the But "tenfoot" is not a word. I don't see any ambiguity in "ten foot pole", in fact "ten-foot pole" looks weird and possibly insulting to the reader. According to my dictionary: hyphen. 1. n. Sign (-) used to join two words or divide a word into parts (e.g. man-trap, re-echo). 2. v.t. Join, divide, with h. but hyphenated is a U.S. term: hyphenated (U.S.), hyphened. (hyphenated Americans. German-Americans, Irish-Americans, &c). [Gk = under one] -- Chris. == I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen F Roberts
Re: newbie install
On 22Feb2009 10:45, James Freer wrote: | I've just been looking at mozex. the "xterm -e vim %t" that one enters | for the editor leaves one with a small font. I hoped "xterm -fs 16 -e | vim %t" might improve things. How can one get over this? The best way is to edit your .Xdefaults file to add suitable defaults for the XTerm client. Mine includes: XTerm*boldFont: 5x8 XTerm*font: 5x8 which I'm sure you'll find too small. See "man xterm" for the extensive list of available settings. Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ No, I haven't read 'Illuminatus' myself, although I do know of it. Perhaps I might find some _more_ information in this book to back up these claims. - j...@ibis.dsto.gov.au (James Marcus)
Re: newbie install
On 22Feb2009 10:20, James Freer wrote: | 2009/2/22 Chris G : | > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:39:05AM +0800, bill lam wrote: | >> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: | >> > some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of | >> > the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose | >> > emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to | >> > the mouse while editing emails. | >> | >> There is also a firefox addon "it's all text" that allow using | >> external editors for textarea editing such writing emails for | >> webmails. I use this extensively. It's great for things like wiki editing too. I use this (terribly me-centric) wrapper for popping up a terminal-with-a-vim for ItsAllText! http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/css/bin/iat-edit In the middle is "e", which small script meaning roughly: xterm -e $EDITOR filename... (Adjust preferred terminal etc). Most of the wrapping is environment setup (preamble) and stashing the edited file text in an archive (postamble) because I frequently want a big edit to be recoverable in wiki edits, through UI errors on my part. | > ... and mozex which does almost exactly the same but also adds other | > external program facilities to Firefox. Yah. I started with this and moved to itsalltext. On X11 systems you can tell Firefox to use mutt for mailto: links via the Gnome configuration panel; you'll need a small script to go: xterm -e mutt blah... | I looked at mozex once and thought it was only for old versions of | Firefox. Go to the website and you can download the FF3 version | [mozilla a little slow on their updates]? | | 'ItsallText' i haven't got working somehow. For gmail one has got to | do a bash script from what i can gather. You have a choice here. There's an extension somewhere to make Fixfore pass all mailto: links to GMail's web interface. Alas, I forget its name. Cheers, -- Cameron Simpson DoD#743 http://www.cskk.ezoshosting.com/cs/ We really don't care what APIs Microsoft publishes - the only thing that matters to us is what APIs are used by the applications we want to support. In fact, Wine only implements about half of the Windows APIs. Now some (like my wife) might argue that's because we're just lazy, but the truth is that over half of the Windows APIs have never been used! - Jeremy of Wine http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/17/0057241&mode=nested
Re: newbie install
2009/2/22 Chris G : > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:45:50AM +, James Freer wrote: >> 2009/2/22 James Freer : >> > 2009/2/22 Chris G : xvile -geometry 200x60+200+200 %t >> >> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:39:05AM +0800, bill lam wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: >> >>> > some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of >> >>> > the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose >> >>> > emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to >> >>> > the mouse while editing emails. >> >>> >> >>> There is also a firefox addon "it's all text" that allow using >> >>> external editors for textarea editing such writing emails for >> >>> webmails. >> >>> >> >> ... and mozex which does almost exactly the same but also adds other >> >> external program facilities to Firefox. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Chris Green >> > >> > I looked at mozex once and thought it was only for old versions of >> > Firefox. Go to the website and you can download the FF3 version >> > [mozilla a little slow on their updates]? >> > >> > 'ItsallText' i haven't got working somehow. For gmail one has got to >> > do a bash script from what i can gather. Mozex is fine for me and is >> > obviously similar to the addon for Thunderbird. >> > >> > What have i learnt? Keep looking periodically at all addons - they >> > have put on alot this past year (don't think i've looked for a year). >> > >> > james >> > >> >> I've just been looking at mozex. the "xterm -e vim %t" that one enters >> for the editor leaves one with a small font. I hoped "xterm -fs 16 -e >> vim %t" might improve things. How can one get over this? >> > You can of course use a GUI editor which eliminates the requirement > for an xterm at all, e.g. I have:- > > xvile -geometry 200x60+200+200 %t > > For vim/gvim simply put 'gvim' instead of 'xvile' above, I assume it > will understand the standard X "-geometry". > > -- > Chris Green > Thanks Chris. I'm not so technical on settings. I imagine this could be better set up in the vim/gvim config file. I'll try an investigate further. Have to say this is ideal for me. I still like webmail for some things instead of Thunderbird james
Re: newbie install
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:45:50AM +, James Freer wrote: > 2009/2/22 James Freer : > > 2009/2/22 Chris G : > >> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:39:05AM +0800, bill lam wrote: > >>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: > >>> > some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of > >>> > the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose > >>> > emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to > >>> > the mouse while editing emails. > >>> > >>> There is also a firefox addon "it's all text" that allow using > >>> external editors for textarea editing such writing emails for > >>> webmails. > >>> > >> ... and mozex which does almost exactly the same but also adds other > >> external program facilities to Firefox. > >> > >> -- > >> Chris Green > > > > I looked at mozex once and thought it was only for old versions of > > Firefox. Go to the website and you can download the FF3 version > > [mozilla a little slow on their updates]? > > > > 'ItsallText' i haven't got working somehow. For gmail one has got to > > do a bash script from what i can gather. Mozex is fine for me and is > > obviously similar to the addon for Thunderbird. > > > > What have i learnt? Keep looking periodically at all addons - they > > have put on alot this past year (don't think i've looked for a year). > > > > james > > > > I've just been looking at mozex. the "xterm -e vim %t" that one enters > for the editor leaves one with a small font. I hoped "xterm -fs 16 -e > vim %t" might improve things. How can one get over this? > You can of course use a GUI editor which eliminates the requirement for an xterm at all, e.g. I have:- xvile -geometry 200x60+200+200 %t For vim/gvim simply put 'gvim' instead of 'xvile' above, I assume it will understand the standard X "-geometry". -- Chris Green
Re: newbie install
2009/2/22 James Freer : > 2009/2/22 Chris G : >> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:39:05AM +0800, bill lam wrote: >>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: >>> > some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of >>> > the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose >>> > emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to >>> > the mouse while editing emails. >>> >>> There is also a firefox addon "it's all text" that allow using >>> external editors for textarea editing such writing emails for >>> webmails. >>> >> ... and mozex which does almost exactly the same but also adds other >> external program facilities to Firefox. >> >> -- >> Chris Green > > I looked at mozex once and thought it was only for old versions of > Firefox. Go to the website and you can download the FF3 version > [mozilla a little slow on their updates]? > > 'ItsallText' i haven't got working somehow. For gmail one has got to > do a bash script from what i can gather. Mozex is fine for me and is > obviously similar to the addon for Thunderbird. > > What have i learnt? Keep looking periodically at all addons - they > have put on alot this past year (don't think i've looked for a year). > > james > I've just been looking at mozex. the "xterm -e vim %t" that one enters for the editor leaves one with a small font. I hoped "xterm -fs 16 -e vim %t" might improve things. How can one get over this? thanks james
Re: newbie install
On Sun, 22 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: > 'ItsallText' i haven't got working somehow. For gmail one has got to > do a bash script from what i can gather. Mozex is fine for me and is I just used gvim and that worked for me although I rarely use firefox now. -- regards, GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 唐詩124 孟浩然 望洞庭湖贈張丞相 八月湖水平 涵虛混太清 氣蒸雲夢澤 波撼岳陽城 欲濟無舟楫 端居恥聖明 坐觀垂釣者 空有羨魚情
Re: newbie install
2009/2/22 Chris G : > On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:39:05AM +0800, bill lam wrote: >> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: >> > some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of >> > the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose >> > emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to >> > the mouse while editing emails. >> >> There is also a firefox addon "it's all text" that allow using >> external editors for textarea editing such writing emails for >> webmails. >> > ... and mozex which does almost exactly the same but also adds other > external program facilities to Firefox. > > -- > Chris Green I looked at mozex once and thought it was only for old versions of Firefox. Go to the website and you can download the FF3 version [mozilla a little slow on their updates]? 'ItsallText' i haven't got working somehow. For gmail one has got to do a bash script from what i can gather. Mozex is fine for me and is obviously similar to the addon for Thunderbird. What have i learnt? Keep looking periodically at all addons - they have put on alot this past year (don't think i've looked for a year). james
Re: newbie install
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 10:39:05AM +0800, bill lam wrote: > On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: > > some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of > > the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose > > emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to > > the mouse while editing emails. > > There is also a firefox addon "it's all text" that allow using > external editors for textarea editing such writing emails for > webmails. > ... and mozex which does almost exactly the same but also adds other external program facilities to Firefox. -- Chris Green
Re: newbie install
On Sat, 21 Feb 2009, James Freer wrote: > some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of > the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose > emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to > the mouse while editing emails. There is also a firefox addon "it's all text" that allow using external editors for textarea editing such writing emails for webmails. -- regards, GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 唐詩269 李白 下江陵 朝辭白帝彩雲間 千里江陵一日還 兩岸猿聲啼不住 輕舟已過萬重山
Re: newbie install
2009/2/21 Brian Salter-Duke : > On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 07:56:47PM +, James Freer wrote: >> Thank you for your help and comments. Just to recap i had wanted to >> use a text editor to speed up answering emails and considered Mutt and >> Emacs. I had used Thunderbird for sometime and liked the app. A text >> email client seemed the answer but i wasn't that impressed by Mutt. >> >> However, i'm not as knowledgeable as some and setting up Mutt was ok >> but still involved quite a bit of work. I got it all working and did >> appreciate your help. >> >> Yesterday i came across a Thunderbird addon Muttador (still beta stage >> - vi editor) > > I tried to find muttador but came up with very little. Do you have a > link to it? > > Brian. sorry muttator https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/search?q=mutt&cat=1%2C50 james
Re: newbie install
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 07:56:47PM +, James Freer wrote: > Thank you for your help and comments. Just to recap i had wanted to > use a text editor to speed up answering emails and considered Mutt and > Emacs. I had used Thunderbird for sometime and liked the app. A text > email client seemed the answer but i wasn't that impressed by Mutt. > > However, i'm not as knowledgeable as some and setting up Mutt was ok > but still involved quite a bit of work. I got it all working and did > appreciate your help. > > Yesterday i came across a Thunderbird addon Muttador (still beta stage > - vi editor) I tried to find muttador but came up with very little. Do you have a link to it? Brian. > and today came across a non-mozilla TB addon called Exteditor... > http://globs.org/articles.php?lng=en&pg=2 some v.clever person has > developed an external editor addon instead of the TB editor. It allows > emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose emails. Should be of > interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to the mouse while editing > emails. > james > > 2009/2/21 Gary Johnson : > > On 2009-02-21, Chris Bannister wrote: > >> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:55:00AM -0500, Noah Sheppard wrote: > >> > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:44:45AM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > >> > > [..] > >> > > Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) > >> > > >> > We are computer geeks; pedantry is never off-track. > >> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?^ > >> No need for the hyphen; you are not splitting a word. > > > > Hyphens are not used only for splitting words; they are also used > > for joining words to form compounds, as when forming a single > > adjective as in "ten-foot pole" or "off-track pedantry". ?In the > > example above, however, since the modifier "off track" follows > > "pedantry", the correct usage is without the hyphen: ?pedantry is > > never off track. > > > > Regards, > > Gary > > > > > > -- "If you think education is expensive, try ignorance". The best slogan used by an education trade union. Brian Salter-Duke (Brian Duke) Email: b_duke(AT)bigpond(DOT)net(DOT)au
Re: newbie install
Thank you for your help and comments. Just to recap i had wanted to use a text editor to speed up answering emails and considered Mutt and Emacs. I had used Thunderbird for sometime and liked the app. A text email client seemed the answer but i wasn't that impressed by Mutt. However, i'm not as knowledgeable as some and setting up Mutt was ok but still involved quite a bit of work. I got it all working and did appreciate your help. Yesterday i came across a Thunderbird addon Muttador (still beta stage - vi editor) and today came across a non-mozilla TB addon called Exteditor... http://globs.org/articles.php?lng=en&pg=2 some v.clever person has developed an external editor addon instead of the TB editor. It allows emacs, vi, joe, gedit or whatever to compose emails. Should be of interest to anyone who wants to say goodbye to the mouse while editing emails. james 2009/2/21 Gary Johnson : > On 2009-02-21, Chris Bannister wrote: >> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:55:00AM -0500, Noah Sheppard wrote: >> > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:44:45AM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: >> > > [..] >> > > Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) >> > >> > We are computer geeks; pedantry is never off-track. >> ^ >> No need for the hyphen; you are not splitting a word. > > Hyphens are not used only for splitting words; they are also used > for joining words to form compounds, as when forming a single > adjective as in "ten-foot pole" or "off-track pedantry". In the > example above, however, since the modifier "off track" follows > "pedantry", the correct usage is without the hyphen: pedantry is > never off track. > > Regards, > Gary > > >
Re: newbie install
On 2009-02-21, Chris Bannister wrote: > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:55:00AM -0500, Noah Sheppard wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:44:45AM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > > > [..] > > > Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) > > > > We are computer geeks; pedantry is never off-track. >^ > No need for the hyphen; you are not splitting a word. Hyphens are not used only for splitting words; they are also used for joining words to form compounds, as when forming a single adjective as in "ten-foot pole" or "off-track pedantry". In the example above, however, since the modifier "off track" follows "pedantry", the correct usage is without the hyphen: pedantry is never off track. Regards, Gary
Re: newbie install
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:55:00AM -0500, Noah Sheppard wrote: > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:44:45AM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > > [..] > > Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) > > We are computer geeks; pedantry is never off-track. ^ No need for the hyphen; you are not splitting a word. -- Chris. == I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. -- Stephen F Roberts
Re: newbie install
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 08:36:01AM -0700, Paul E Condon wrote: > Even today an MTA is needed for hosts that have special uses. > Firewalls, etc. On these machines there are a bunch of daemon > processes, which can get into trouble, and need to be able to call for > help. On Debian, and likely othe distributions, this is done by > sending local email to root. The sysadmin is supposed to look at this > spool periodically. Without an automatic install of a MTA, this idea > would be already broken out of the box. Debian has choosen Exim/Exim4 > for this function in the base system. If you install some other MTA > or intend to rely on your MUA for MTA services, you may not be able > to remove the MTA that the distribution provided, unless you make > sure that your substitute is actually handling this 'hidden' email > traffic. There are daemons on your computer that may, some day, need > to talk to you. Sorry, I was mostly referring to people running a Linux desktop. Most people in such a use-case nowadays, aren't operating their system as a server or old mainframe (which is the way most of these tools were designed). I use them all the time, but in a general sense (for desktop use) it's not used. The spool would just fill up with such messages and no one would be looking at them. -- Brandon Sandrowicz email: bsand...@gmail.com cell: +1 503 481 3865
Re: newbie install
2009/2/16 James Freer : >> Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) >> >> ~Kyle > > Yea sure. I've been trying to learn my way through this. Now that exim > appears to be a default install and maildrop has dependencies on exim. > I'll be installing maildrop shortly and hopefully end up with the mutt > installation i've been aiming for. > > Thanks for your help... and being patient! > > james > Just in case you're wondering [ and grinning] how i'm getting on. Done my .muttrc, .mailcap, .msmtprc My gosh what a lot of work james
Re: newbie install
> Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) > > ~Kyle Yea sure. I've been trying to learn my way through this. Now that exim appears to be a default install and maildrop has dependencies on exim. I'll be installing maildrop shortly and hopefully end up with the mutt installation i've been aiming for. Thanks for your help... and being patient! james
Re: newbie install
On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 10:44:45AM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > [..] > Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) We are computer geeks; pedantry is never off-track. http://xkcd.com/386/ Cheers, -- Noah Sheppard Assistant Computer Resource Manager Taylor University CSE Department nshep...@cse.taylor.edu
Re: newbie install
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Monday, February 16 at 12:09 PM, quoth James Freer: >Kyle > >> You mean procmail, not postfix, right? Procmail *APPEARS* easier, but >> has some massive problems with error handling (see > >No assuming Ubuntu Linux by Von Hagan is correct. You said "I need to use postfix OR maildrop." (emphasis mine). That suggests you believed them to be analogs. Even in your list here, postfix is an MTA, maildrop is an MDA, so they're not analogs. >examples [if i've learnt anything!] > >MTA [mail transfer agent] - sendmail, postfix, qmail, exim, mstmp > >MDA [mail delivery agent] - procmail, maildrop, qpopper, courier IMAP, cyrus Strictly speaking, no, qpopper, courier IMAP, and cyrus IMAP are *not* MDAs because they do not *deliver* email. They *serve* email, and don't really fit into the usual email transfer categories (MTA/MDA/MUA/MRA/MSA). See http://wiki.mutt.org/?MailConcept Now, they may *proved* MDA features; I know dovecot IMAP has an MDA/LDA program, and I think courier and cyrus come with one too, but I'm pretty sure that qpopper doesn't. Of course, now we're getting into pedantry, and kinda off track. :) ~Kyle - -- As we enjoy great Advantages from the Inventions of others we should be glad of an Opportunity to serve others by any Invention of ours, and this we should do freely and generously. -- Benjamin Franklin -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Thank you for using encryption! iEYEARECAAYFAkmZl/wACgkQBkIOoMqOI15QWgCfZeDFJjgsOLw3k96SNvtQ9y5l /NsAoPsmIF1+/yu1v466WxBmw+RkBuvX =4OQP -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: newbie install
On 2009-02-15_13:13:09, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 06:41:46PM +, James Freer wrote: ...snip... > Exim is part of the default install because in the olden days all of > your email was delivered to the 'mail spool' (usually > /var/mail/$USERNAME or /var/spool/mail/$USERNAME) and you read it from > there, possibly copying it to a local home directory (like ~/Mail/inbox > or something similar). Lots of command-line and backend programs relied > on this functionality, and sent things like error messages to your mail > spool. Many still do. For example, if you define a process to run in a > schedule on > cron, any output (either to STDOUT or STDERR) will be packaged into an > email an sent to your mailspool (the assumption being that any output > that isn't going to a log file is an error that you'll want to know > about). Even today an MTA is needed for hosts that have special uses. Firewalls, etc. On these machines there are a bunch of daemon processes, which can get into trouble, and need to be able to call for help. On Debian, and likely othe distributions, this is done by sending local email to root. The sysadmin is supposed to look at this spool periodically. Without an automatic install of a MTA, this idea would be already broken out of the box. Debian has choosen Exim/Exim4 for this function in the base system. If you install some other MTA or intend to rely on your MUA for MTA services, you may not be able to remove the MTA that the distribution provided, unless you make sure that your substitute is actually handling this 'hidden' email traffic. There are daemons on your computer that may, some day, need to talk to you. -- Paul E Condon pecon...@mesanetworks.net
Re: newbie install
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 06:21:47PM -0600, Derek Martin wrote: > > FWIW, the statement is correct as stated. A statement which is > phrased as an absolute which is not always true is false (i.e. not > true). > Derek has accumulated enough clarity points to win his pedant pendant for the year 2009! Congratulations Derek! ;-) Derek Hey - are you going to BLU on the 18-th? I wonder if they will anything new on Linux TCO. I need another club to swing in the myriad Win vs Lin engagements Jeff Kinz. -- "Funniest signatures series": (found posted to a public email list) IMPORTANT: This email remains the property of the Australian Defence Organisation and is subject to the jurisdiction of section 70 of the CRIMES ACT 1914. If you have received this email in error, you are requested to contact the sender and delete the email.
Re: newbie install
Kyle > You mean procmail, not postfix, right? Procmail *APPEARS* easier, but > has some massive problems with error handling (see No assuming Ubuntu Linux by Von Hagan is correct. examples [if i've learnt anything!] MTA [mail transfer agent] - sendmail, postfix, qmail, exim, mstmp MDA [mail delivery agent] - procmail, maildrop, qpopper, courier IMAP, cyrus MUA [mail user agent] - evolution, mutt, kmail, pine, thunderbird (most include an MTA and MDA) james
Re: newbie install
Brandon > Are you wanting to do filtering beyond what you are doing with Gmail's > filtering? Or are you trying to subvert the web interface altogether? > This matters to answering your question. Sorry i think i might have slightly misled your thinking and should clarify. a] I want to use mutt on IMAP to bypass the web interface to reply and sort through email more quickly than i do. e.g. google's web interface is v.good compared with others but still slow only listing 100 messages per screen. b] Save important emails to my hard drive which i gathered one can do with mutt - using maildir saving as text files as opposed to mbox. To select emails and then save manually to certain directories would be ideal (although can probably be done via filter). [Using Thunderbird i used a plugin called ImportExportTools which could save emails to a folder in html format with an index. That was fine but i'd prefer to use something simpler and like the text style of mutt]. c] POP does work fine and i've used it but takes along time to download all email which one then deletes a large chunk of. I did set Thunderbird up with filters and it was fine. Downloading 50 messages takes time with POP compared with IMAP downloading just headers and then retrieving the message body for say 10 messages you want to reply to. I don't know how much of one's broadband byte allocation would be used up with 1500 messages/week but a chunk whereas with IMAP much less as it's only the headers and the message of those one chooses to read. d] I want to use an editor (vim) to edit emails and mutt offers this which other email clients don't. Thanks james
Re: newbie install
On 2009-02-15, Brandon Sandrowicz wrote: > Gmail uses TLS over SMTP (TLS is just a way to start an SSL > connection over a normal connection, as opposed to using a > completely separate port for SSL-only connections). No, that's not what TLS is. TLS is the encryption standard that superceded the Netscape proprietary SSL protocol when the parties involved in the standards effort couldn't agree on what to call it. Netscape wanted to use the name of their proprietary protocol (e.g. "SSL version 3.x"), Microsoft wanted to use the name of their proprietary protocol (I forget what it was called). So the standards committee made up a new name: "Transport Layer Security" or "TLS". The schemes where the server/client first connect in the clear and negotiate whether or not to start an encyryption session isn't part of the SSL or TLS specs. It's an extension of the IMAP or POP3 or SMTP (or whatever) application protocol. What you're talking about is the "starttls" extension to IMAP, SMTP, and POP3. http://www.sendmail.org/~ca/email/starttls.html http://sial.org/howto/openssl/tls-name/ -- Grant
Re: newbie install
2009/2/15 Agathoklis D. Hatzimanikas : >> On Sunday, February 15 at 06:41 PM, quoth James Freer: >> >esmtp [poor documentation not SSL > > Not true, if libesmtp is linked against openssl. Also it supports > multiply accounts and the documentation is quite decent. > > http://esmtp.sourceforge.net/manual.html > > Regards, > Ag. Sorry , yes quite correct right at the bottom of the page... i did read through that. 'poor documentation' is perhaps a bit 'out of order'. It's just that it is not as easy to read and take in as say mstmp [a well written pdf to read at leisure storing it my software docs directory]. james
Re: newbie install
On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 06:41:46PM +, James Freer wrote:
> Jan
>
> > I don't know about synaptic. But using "apt-get install mutt"
> > exim4 was installed automatically with mutt on my sytem. i was using exim
> >
> > what should I learn from this? better building mutt from the source?
>
> {Using Ubuntu 8.04
> I wanted to use mutt for coping with my mail for three email gmail
> accounts... mostly lists and yahoogroups for classic cars and other
> interests.}
Are you just trying to copy all your mail locally and you don't care
about viewing it through the webmail interface? If so then using
fetchmail or getmail as suggested is a good bet. But even if you use the
'keep on server' option, there will be a disparity between your local
copies and your remote copies.
fetchmail and getmail were designed with the Post Office Protocol (POP)
in mind. They are mainly ways of pulling email from the remote server;
they don't push any information back to the server (like if you've read
the email, or deleted it locally, or moved it to a different folder).
POP was designed to just be more like a Post Office Box where you
contact the server to pull down your email for local consumption
(deleteing them from the server).
If you want to use something that takes full advantage of the IMAP
protocol, you'll want to look into offlineimap which can sync
IMAP-server-to-IMAP-server and IMAP-server-to-Maildir. Unfortunately,
you can't run this through something like procmail or maildrop. But
this will keep the local state of your email and the remote state in
sync with each other. The only caveat is that if you create a new email
folder locally, it won't create a new folder on the IMAP server (or a
new label in the case of Gmail). You'll have to create new folders on
the IMAP server.
> a] re: exim I don't think so! On my main PC [as opposed to my test PC
> which is where i'm trying out mutt first] Exim is a DEFAULT install.
> From synaptic mutt installs without any dependencies which i was
> surprised at. Why the default install? i don't know - i wondered if it
> was for evolution [the default email client but doesn't seem to be].
Exim is part of the default install because in the olden days all of
your email was delivered to the 'mail spool' (usually
/var/mail/$USERNAME or /var/spool/mail/$USERNAME) and you read it from
there, possibly copying it to a local home directory (like ~/Mail/inbox
or something similar). Lots of command-line and backend programs relied
on this functionality, and sent things like error messages to your mail
spool. Many still do. For example, if you define a process to run in a
schedule on
cron, any output (either to STDOUT or STDERR) will be packaged into an
email an sent to your mailspool (the assumption being that any output
that isn't going to a log file is an error that you'll want to know
about).
> b] As i'm still trying to learn from much reading - what is the
> difference between?
> sssmtp [simple solution includes SSL]
> nbsmtp ['no-brainer' includes SSL
> esmtp [poor documentation not SSL
> msmtp [supports multiple accounts and SSL]
>
> Due to supporting multiple accounts it seems msmtp is the choice for
> me as it offers multiple account support. None of these will support
> queuing from what i can gather. As i'm intending to use gmail SSL is
> required... i don't know but i gathered that emails can be lost
> without SSL e.g yahoo only use port 110 and 25.
The problem with port 25 is that loads of ISPs are now blocking all
outgoing connections on port 25. This is due to the massive numbers of
their subscribers that have virus-infected boxes trying to send out spam
emails (i.e. spambot-nets). Port 587 work for normal SMTP as well as
SMTP w/ TLS IIRC. Gmail uses TLS over SMTP (TLS is just a way to start
an SSL connection over a normal connection, as opposed to using a
completely separate port for SSL-only connections).
> c] As i want to filter email to subject directories [maildir] i need
> to use postfix or maildrop. For a newbie the Postfix seems easier to
> set up or i can't find a decent doc on maildrop.
Are you wanting to do filtering beyond what you are doing with Gmail's
filtering? Or are you trying to subvert the web interface altogether?
This matters to answering your question.
> Be grateful if you could comment on my deliberations!!
>
> thanks
> james
--
Brandon Sandrowicz
email: bsand...@gmail.com
cell: +1 503 481 3865
Re: newbie install
> On Sunday, February 15 at 06:41 PM, quoth James Freer: > >esmtp [poor documentation not SSL Not true, if libesmtp is linked against openssl. Also it supports multiply accounts and the documentation is quite decent. http://esmtp.sourceforge.net/manual.html Regards, Ag.
Re: newbie install
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, February 15 at 06:41 PM, quoth James Freer: >a] re: exim I don't think so! On my main PC [as opposed to my test PC >which is where i'm trying out mutt first] Exim is a DEFAULT install. >From synaptic mutt installs without any dependencies which i was >surprised at. Why the default install? i don't know - i wondered if it >was for evolution [the default email client but doesn't seem to be]. I think exim is part of the default install for historical reasons. Some older pieces of unix software assume that there is a queueing sendmail program available, and so exim is there to support them. >b] As i'm still trying to learn from much reading - what is the >difference between? >sssmtp [simple solution includes SSL] >nbsmtp ['no-brainer' includes SSL >esmtp [poor documentation not SSL >msmtp [supports multiple accounts and SSL] Not a clue; but I'd either recommend using mutt's built-in smtp support OR msmtp (because msmtp was designed specifically for mutt users, and like you said, supports multiple accounts). >None of these will support queuing from what i can gather. Indeed; if you want a queue, try something like nullmailer (http://untroubled.org/nullmailer). >As i'm intending to use gmail SSL is required... i don't know but i >gathered that emails can be lost without SSL e.g yahoo only use port >110 and 25. Email, due to spammers, has gotten more finicky, yes. >c] As i want to filter email to subject directories [maildir] i need >to use postfix or maildrop. For a newbie the Postfix seems easier to >set up or i can't find a decent doc on maildrop. You mean procmail, not postfix, right? Procmail *APPEARS* easier, but has some massive problems with error handling (see http://www.memoryhole.net/kyle/2008/06/i_hate_procmail.html). Not that they can't be worked around, it's just a pain, and easy to accidentally lose email. For maildrop documentation, have you checked out http://www.courier-mta.org/maildropex.html ? ~Kyle - -- No matter what side of the argument you are on, you always find people on your side that you wish were on the other. -- Jascha Heifetz -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Thank you for using encryption! iEYEARECAAYFAkmYeWUACgkQBkIOoMqOI17itwCg9oVRLXGOSx6YAM64vrsjR/P+ pgUAnR+DzbB5GsU6M/3xlPmHAnza2eIA =0NZx -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: newbie install
Jan
> I don't know about synaptic. But using "apt-get install mutt"
> exim4 was installed automatically with mutt on my sytem. i was using exim
>
> what should I learn from this? better building mutt from the source?
{Using Ubuntu 8.04
I wanted to use mutt for coping with my mail for three email gmail
accounts... mostly lists and yahoogroups for classic cars and other
interests.}
a] re: exim I don't think so! On my main PC [as opposed to my test PC
which is where i'm trying out mutt first] Exim is a DEFAULT install.
>From synaptic mutt installs without any dependencies which i was
surprised at. Why the default install? i don't know - i wondered if it
was for evolution [the default email client but doesn't seem to be].
b] As i'm still trying to learn from much reading - what is the
difference between?
sssmtp [simple solution includes SSL]
nbsmtp ['no-brainer' includes SSL
esmtp [poor documentation not SSL
msmtp [supports multiple accounts and SSL]
Due to supporting multiple accounts it seems msmtp is the choice for
me as it offers multiple account support. None of these will support
queuing from what i can gather. As i'm intending to use gmail SSL is
required... i don't know but i gathered that emails can be lost
without SSL e.g yahoo only use port 110 and 25.
c] As i want to filter email to subject directories [maildir] i need
to use postfix or maildrop. For a newbie the Postfix seems easier to
set up or i can't find a decent doc on maildrop.
Be grateful if you could comment on my deliberations!!
thanks
james
Re: newbie install
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 04:15:30PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > On Friday, February 13 at 10:33 PM, quoth sigi: > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 03:06:49PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > >> Collecting email from multiple accounts is what programs like > >> fetchmail or getmail do best. I recommend getmail, but fetchmail works > >> well too. The only thing with them is: they will pull your email to > >> your computer and delete it from the server. You won't be able to read > >> email with the webmail frontend anymore; you'll have to use something > >> on your own computer. > > > > To comment on your last two sentences: that's not true. > > You mean it's not *necessarily* true; it is true if he sticks with the > default behavior. FWIW, the statement is correct as stated. A statement which is phrased as an absolute which is not always true is false (i.e. not true). -- Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail due to spam prevention. Sorry for the inconvenience. pgpQrlxSfAYyo.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: newbie install
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday, February 15 at 01:20 PM, quoth Jan-Herbert Damm: > everything would have been a lot simpler had i known about mutts > smtp feature. > > what should I learn from this? better building mutt from the source? I guess I'd take away from it that mutt packagers don't always keep up with the latest and greatest features. If you want to use the latest and greatest, yes, build it yourself. Packages are a *convenience*; if they don't do what you want, don't use them. ~Kyle - -- May your glass be ever full. May the roof over your head be always strong. May you be in heaven half an hour before the devil knows you're dead. -- Old Irish Toast -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Thank you for using encryption! iEYEARECAAYFAkmYRuoACgkQBkIOoMqOI17JKQCdFOU4myNTMJt15otIIpVa89ES gH8AoNyQfqCnbjKKpqW1ROLb04QtkNz0 =ea8h -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: newbie install
hello, i was surprised to read that mutt can handle smtp-sending on its own now. because i also had to fiddle with msmtp (which is rather simple). > So just install mutt on it's own - there don't seem to be any > dependencies according to synaptic. I don't know about synaptic. But using "apt-get install mutt" exim4 was installed automatically with mutt on my sytem. i was using exim after quite an effort to configure it for weeks until i noticed that there were subtle authentifaction issues and *some* of my outgoing mail was refused by the smtp-server with my exim4 seemingly freezing the bounces so that i never got a hint of there being a problem. I switched to msmtp and now it works. everything would have been a lot simpler had i known about mutts smtp feature. what should I learn from this? better building mutt from the source? jan
Re: newbie install
2009/2/13 Kyle Wheeler : > -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Friday, February 13 at 10:33 PM, quoth sigi: >> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 03:06:49PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: >>> Collecting email from multiple accounts is what programs like >>> fetchmail or getmail do best. I recommend getmail, but fetchmail works >>> well too. The only thing with them is: they will pull your email to >>> your computer and delete it from the server. You won't be able to read >>> email with the webmail frontend anymore; you'll have to use something >>> on your own computer. >> >> To comment on your last two sentences: that's not true. > > You mean it's not *necessarily* true; it is true if he sticks with the > default behavior. > > ~Kyle Kyle, Michael, Noah and Sigi Thanks for your help. I will experiment further this w/e. I thought there was a way of keeping emails on the server as that is offered by most email clients. That is what i've done in the past just in case i have a problem and have to reinstall everything - seems the email app remembers what emails it has downloaded. james
Re: newbie install
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 04:15:30PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > On Friday, February 13 at 10:33 PM, quoth sigi: > > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 03:06:49PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > >> Collecting email from multiple accounts is what programs like > >> fetchmail or getmail do best. I recommend getmail, but fetchmail works > >> well too. The only thing with them is: they will pull your email to > >> your computer and delete it from the server. You won't be able to read > >> email with the webmail frontend anymore; you'll have to use something > >> on your own computer. > > > > To comment on your last two sentences: that's not true. > > You mean it's not *necessarily* true; it is true if he sticks with the > default behavior. OK, you're right... but in my eyes you implied, he'd have to decide between downloading messages or keeping them on the server when using fetchmail, sorry. So: sure, for the keep-option you have to read the manpages... but which ordinary mutt-user doesn't have to search so many things to make things more usefull? ;) sigi
Re: newbie install
Noah Sheppard wrote: [..] well too. The only thing with them is: they will pull your email to your computer and delete it from the server. You won't be able to read email with the webmail frontend anymore; you'll have to use something on your own computer. Run fetchmail with the -k switch or set keep on your entry in fetchmailrc, which will leave your messages on the remote server. I don't know about getmail since I've never used it. Cheers, With getmail, the keep switch is -l (leave on server) -d (is to delete on server)
Re: newbie install
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, February 13 at 10:33 PM, quoth sigi: > On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 03:06:49PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: >> Collecting email from multiple accounts is what programs like >> fetchmail or getmail do best. I recommend getmail, but fetchmail works >> well too. The only thing with them is: they will pull your email to >> your computer and delete it from the server. You won't be able to read >> email with the webmail frontend anymore; you'll have to use something >> on your own computer. > > To comment on your last two sentences: that's not true. You mean it's not *necessarily* true; it is true if he sticks with the default behavior. ~Kyle - -- People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. -- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855) -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Thank you for using encryption! iEYEARECAAYFAkmV8QEACgkQBkIOoMqOI14hxQCgsmsg9uN4teswHuH1lKoyqxz2 FV8AoLHTenr/7fcV/fC6BsUXqcQKaxqS =JTVb -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: newbie install
On 2009-02-13, James Freer wrote: > Kyle > > Thanks for your reply - that has helped clarify some things. Ubuntu > 8.04 repos has the mutt 1.5.17 [but as the 8.04 version is the Long > Term Support version it may well automatically replace it with the > updated version on install]. >>> I have three emails addresses with googlemail.com >> >> Ah, fun. > > Does that mean considerable stress and grief?? I think Gmail's IMAP server works great (far better than some traditional IMAP servers). Multiple accounts is multiple accounts regardless of the server. The only thing I remember causing problems was that Gmail's IMAP server has a very short connection timeout. The following setting in my .muttrc file seems to keep it happily connected: set imap_keepalive=30 > I have set up IMAP gmail with Thunderbird and wondered about POP and > SMTP. Gmail has an odd way of handling IMAP which i'm not sure about. > Using as webmail Gmail has an Inbox, Sent and All Mail box - when > using Thunderbird in IMAP all incoming mail remains in the Inbox, then > has to be archived manually [by going back to webmail] to put it in > the All Mail box. Gmail is very clever with its conversations feature > and this is why it has this All Mail box i guess but i didn't find a > away of archiving the Inbox to All Mail I'm a bit confused about what you mean by "archiving the Inbox to All Mail". If you're using IMAP and if you don't want to see an e-mail in the Inbox folder any more, then delete it. It'll still be there in the "All Mail" box. In Gmail's IMAP server, a message can exist simultaneously in mutliple IMAP folders (yet there's only one real copy of the message). Remember: IMAP folders are just the way that Gmail presents "labels" to an IMAP client. Folders do not correspond to anything like separate directories in a filesystem that contain copies of messages. Be default, incoming messages are given the label "Inbox". The "All Mail" "folder" is special in that it provides a view of all messages regardless of what labels they have (if any). Deleting a mail from a "folder" just removes the corresponding label from the message. IIRC, the only way to really "delete" a message is to move it to the Trash or Spam folder, then delete it from there. Hmm... I don't remember what happens when, via IMAP, you delete a message from the "All Mail" folder. Anyway, it's explained pretty well on the google web site: http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=75725 http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=77657 http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=78755 -- Grant Edwards grante Yow! I just got my PRINCE at bumper sticker ... But now visi.comI can't remember WHO he is ...
Re: newbie install
On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 03:06:49PM -0600, Kyle Wheeler wrote: > Collecting email from multiple accounts is what programs like > fetchmail or getmail do best. I recommend getmail, but fetchmail works > well too. The only thing with them is: they will pull your email to > your computer and delete it from the server. You won't be able to read > email with the webmail frontend anymore; you'll have to use something > on your own computer. To comment on your last two sentences: that's not true. Just give the 'keep'-option in your configuration for fetchmail and it will only copy messages to the local mailbox - and keep them on the server, too. So, it'd be no problem to fetchmail messages and read them from time to time with webmailers. Or won't googlemail work with this option? sigi.
Re: newbie install
> [..] > well too. The only thing with them is: they will pull your email to > your computer and delete it from the server. You won't be able to read > email with the webmail frontend anymore; you'll have to use something > on your own computer. Run fetchmail with the -k switch or set keep on your entry in fetchmailrc, which will leave your messages on the remote server. I don't know about getmail since I've never used it. Cheers, -- Noah Sheppard Assistant Computer Resource Manager Taylor University CSE Department nshep...@cse.taylor.edu
Re: newbie install
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, February 13 at 07:44 PM, quoth James Freer: >>> I have three emails addresses with googlemail.com >> Ah, fun. > Does that mean considerable stress and grief?? Maybe. Gmail's IMAP support is a little weird. There are ways of working around that, as you say, but sometimes the workaround is unplatable, in which case stress and grief. :) >> Eh? No, that must be an outdated guide. > So just install mutt on it's own - there don't seem to be any > dependencies according to synaptic. Generally, yes. Now that you've been a bit more descriptive, it sounds like you *may* want to use fetchmail and procmail (or similar alternatives, like getmail instead of fetchmail or maildrop instead of procmail). > So what do i do... all i want [i think] is to have the mail > collected from each account in turn [a bit like Thunderbird used to > do] and put in separate email address folders. Collecting email from multiple accounts is what programs like fetchmail or getmail do best. I recommend getmail, but fetchmail works well too. The only thing with them is: they will pull your email to your computer and delete it from the server. You won't be able to read email with the webmail frontend anymore; you'll have to use something on your own computer. Procmail and maildrop are programs designed to filter email into different folders. They have relatively complex preference files, for this very reason, but are quite powerful. I have a lot of experience with procmail (enough to despise it), and so even though I can't help you with the details of it, I recommend maildrop. Note that you don't HAVE to use fetchmail or procmail or any of these programs. You CAN simply use mutt to read the messages while they sit on Gmail's POP or IMAP servers, and you can even use mutt to save messages to local folders; it may not be the most convenient thing for you, though. It all depends on how you want it to work. ~Kyle - -- I am certain there is too much certainty in the world. -- Michael Crichton, State of Fear -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Thank you for using encryption! iEYEARECAAYFAkmV4OkACgkQBkIOoMqOI15vAACg0xNT5tEgNQi5PvaKgY9HDtm8 kpIAoPJtE6uOFC4qd1cxAKkXC9Bjda0H =7H0j -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: newbie install
Kyle Thanks for your reply - that has helped clarify some things. Ubuntu 8.04 repos has the mutt 1.5.17 [but as the 8.04 version is the Long Term Support version it may well automatically replace it with the updated version on install]. >> I have three emails addresses with googlemail.com > > Ah, fun. Does that mean considerable stress and grief?? >> Reading the Mutt manual and the gentoo guide; i gather that i need to >> install fetchmail, procmail, mutt and one of a] nbstmp, b]ssmtp, c] >> esmtp, d] mstmp as i'm not setting up an actual mail server either of >> these are adequate but which should i choose. > > Eh? No, that must be an outdated guide. So just install mutt on it's own - there don't seem to be any dependencies according to synaptic. > > Let's frame this in terms of tasks: you need to be able to read your > email, and you need to be able to *send* email. > > Sending email has gotten much easier; you *can* use > nbsmtp/ssmtp/esmtp/msmtp or any of the other variants, but the 1.5.x > versions of mutt can also simply send mail themselves, as long as you > have a server to relay through (e.g. your ISP or google's mail > servers). All you need to do is ensure that your version of mutt has > been compiled with smtp support (the default Ubuntu package probably > has) and then add the following to your muttrc: > > set smtp_url="smtp://u...@googlemail.com@smtp.gmail.com/" > > (and replace "u...@googlemail.com" with one of your actual addresses) > > The other task is to be able to *read* email. You can do this lots of > different ways, but the simplest is to simply use mutt to read the > messages via IMAP (you don't NEED fetchmail or procmail or any of the > others, though you certainly *can* use them if you like). You DO need > to enable IMAP on your Gmail accounts first, though (see > http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=75725&ctx=sibling). > The appropriate mutt setting would be something like this: > > set folder="imaps://u...@googlemail.com@imap.gmail.com/" > set spoolfile="=INBOX" I have set up IMAP gmail with Thunderbird and wondered about POP and SMTP. Gmail has an odd way of handling IMAP which i'm not sure about. Using as webmail Gmail has an Inbox, Sent and All Mail box - when using Thunderbird in IMAP all incoming mail remains in the Inbox, then has to be archived manually [by going back to webmail] to put it in the All Mail box. Gmail is very clever with its conversations feature and this is why it has this All Mail box i guess but i didn't find a away of archiving the Inbox to All Mail - Gmail weren't much help when i raised a support ticket with them. I did use POP and SMTP again with Thunderbird and that worked well - emptying the Inbox but one looses the conversation feature [iirc]. So i was thinking along the POP - SMTP route this time. Any gmail users on here who can advise? > There's more work to be done to efficiently handle all three accounts > at the same time, and a lot of it depends on how exactly you want mutt > to behave. So what do i do... all i want [i think] is to have the mail collected from each account in turn [a bit like Thunderbird used to do] and put in separate email address folders. thanks james [uk]
Re: newbie install
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Friday, February 13 at 05:37 PM, quoth James Freer: > I'd be grateful if someone could just clarify a couple of things > before i do an installation. I can try! :) > using Ubuntu 8.04 on a standalone PC connected to broadband. I chose > Mutt as i can use vim as an editor and hopefully will be able to > reply to emails from my many yahoogroups and mail lists rather more > quickly than i have been doing. Sounds good. > I have three emails addresses with googlemail.com Ah, fun. > Reading the Mutt manual and the gentoo guide; i gather that i need to > install fetchmail, procmail, mutt and one of a] nbstmp, b]ssmtp, c] > esmtp, d] mstmp as i'm not setting up an actual mail server either of > these are adequate but which should i choose. Eh? No, that must be an outdated guide. Let's frame this in terms of tasks: you need to be able to read your email, and you need to be able to *send* email. Sending email has gotten much easier; you *can* use nbsmtp/ssmtp/esmtp/msmtp or any of the other variants, but the 1.5.x versions of mutt can also simply send mail themselves, as long as you have a server to relay through (e.g. your ISP or google's mail servers). All you need to do is ensure that your version of mutt has been compiled with smtp support (the default Ubuntu package probably has) and then add the following to your muttrc: set smtp_url="smtp://u...@googlemail.com@smtp.gmail.com/" (and replace "u...@googlemail.com" with one of your actual addresses) The other task is to be able to *read* email. You can do this lots of different ways, but the simplest is to simply use mutt to read the messages via IMAP (you don't NEED fetchmail or procmail or any of the others, though you certainly *can* use them if you like). You DO need to enable IMAP on your Gmail accounts first, though (see http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=75725&ctx=sibling). The appropriate mutt setting would be something like this: set folder="imaps://u...@googlemail.com@imap.gmail.com/" set spoolfile="=INBOX" There's more work to be done to efficiently handle all three accounts at the same time, and a lot of it depends on how exactly you want mutt to behave. Does that help? ~Kyle - -- Many who claim to have been transformed by Christ's love are deeply, even murderously, intolerant of criticism. -- Sam Harris -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Comment: Thank you for using encryption! iEYEARECAAYFAkmVtAgACgkQBkIOoMqOI15xWgCdF6zc3FwkdfT22lgbp+nbFhuC am0AoOvUpCdTzHAdq3vtGv9GIbPyqiji =dIEH -END PGP SIGNATURE-
