Re: OT: Salary rant
Vicky is right it is worse than state employment. Jon On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Owens, Michael michael.ow...@dys.ohio.govwrote: Hey! -- *From:* Vicky Spelshaus [mailto:vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:54 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant I feel your pain, but it could be worse you mentioned unemployment... let me offer you another 'worse' - state employment. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown -- This message, and any response to it, may constitute a public record and thus may be publicly available to anyone who requests it in accordance with Chapter 149 of the Ohio Revised Code. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
Correction Vicky is right state employment is worse, sorry I am on my first cup of coffee this morning. After 29 years and almost 3 months of working for the state that I know. Jon On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 4:44 AM, Jon Harris jk.har...@gmail.com wrote: Vicky is right it is worse than state employment. Jon On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Owens, Michael michael.ow...@dys.ohio.gov wrote: Hey! -- *From:* Vicky Spelshaus [mailto:vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:54 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant I feel your pain, but it could be worse you mentioned unemployment... let me offer you another 'worse' - state employment. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown -- This message, and any response to it, may constitute a public record and thus may be publicly available to anyone who requests it in accordance with Chapter 149 of the Ohio Revised Code. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
Hey! From: Vicky Spelshaus [mailto:vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:54 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I feel your pain, but it could be worse you mentioned unemployment... let me offer you another 'worse' - state employment. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.commailto:christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown This message, and any response to it, may constitute a public record and thus may be publicly available to anyone who requests it in accordance with Chapter 149 of the Ohio Revised Code. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isn't a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs a week now a days) learn all you can learn with new technologies, and bide your time. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505 From: James Kerr [mailto:cluster...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:17 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - From: Sam Cayze mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com To: NT System Admin Issues mailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :-) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
I couldn't agree more. If you get a 1% raise your a lucky bastige right now. I'm in the same boat as everyone else and consider myself very fortunate to have a job. I get resumes from people who quite frankly have a better technical skill set than me and would work for less money than what I'm getting. Ride it out, cash the checks and work, work, work. - Original Message - From: Edward Ziots EZiots @Lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin @ lyris .sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 6:34:23 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don’t see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isn’t a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs a week now a days) learn all you can learn with new technologies, and bide your time. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505 From: James Kerr [mailto:cluster...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:17 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - From: Sam Cayze To: NT System Admin Issues Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. “This too, shall pass”, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It’s a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best… [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music…. You’re the best, around. No one’s ever gunna beat you down ) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.comwrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... -- *From:* Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. -- *From:* Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. “This too, shall pass”, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It’s a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best… [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music….*You’re the best, around. No one’s ever gunna beat you down*) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown -- Sherry Abercrombie Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
Really I got a 20% pay CUT around October/November last year. L John-AldrichTile-Tools From: asbz...@gmail.com [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 10:58 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant No, you really shouldn't. :) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _ From: James Kerr Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:16:54 -0400 To: NT System Admin Issuesntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - From: Sam Cayze mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com To: NT System Admin Issues mailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. _ From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, Iÿs tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKÿÿ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but yoÿre standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging grocerieÿ I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). Its a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the beÿÿ [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music .Yÿÿre the best, around. No ones ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know ÿm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and iÿs 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, Id tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Cÿÿt afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.52/2298 - Release Date: 08/12/09 06:09:00 ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~image001.jpgimage002.jpg
RE: OT: Salary rant
You're not alone ... here in the ATL there's an ad for a similar IT training ( can't remember the name right now ) that claims in the IT field, Unlimited Career Potential in IT ... argggh! Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security _ From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
New Horizons does it here, has for years. John W. Cook Systems Administrator Partnership For Strong Families 315 SE 2nd Ave Gainesville, Fl 32601 Office (352) 393-2741 x320 Cell (352) 215-6944 Fax (352) 393-2746 MCSE, MCTS, MCP+I, A+, N+, VSP4, VTSP4 From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:58 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant You're not alone ... here in the ATL there's an ad for a similar IT training ( can't remember the name right now ) that claims in the IT field, Unlimited Career Potential in IT ... argggh! Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. CONFIDENTIALITY STATEMENT: The information transmitted, or contained or attached to or with this Notice is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain Protected Health Information (PHI), confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, transmission, dissemination, or other use of, and taking any action in reliance upon this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient without the express written consent of the sender are prohibited. This information may be protected by the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA), and other Federal and Florida laws. Improper or unauthorized use or disclosure of this information could result in civil and/or criminal penalties. Consider the environment. Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to. This email and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for the intended recipient(s). If you are not the named recipient you should not read, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions expressed in this email are those of the author and do not represent those of the company. Warning: Although precautions have been taken to make sure no viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage that arise from the use of this email or attachments. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :-) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown -- Sherry Abercrombie Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke
RE: OT: Salary rant
Perhaps a little of this? http://www.amazon.com/Crow-New-Songs-Five-String-Banjo/dp/B0026IZR3E/ref=s r_1_1?ie=UTF8 http://www.amazon.com/Crow-New-Songs-Five-String-Banjo/dp/B0026IZR3E/ref= sr_1_1?ie=UTF8s=musicqid=1250083587sr=1-1 s=musicqid=1250083587sr=1-1 Chris Bodnar, MCSE Sr. Systems Engineer Distributed Systems Service Delivery - Intel Services Guardian Life Insurance Company of America Email: christopher_bod...@glic.com Phone: 610-807-6459 Fax: 610-807-6003 _ From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:25 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Do I hear banjo music? _ From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:20 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! _ From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... _ From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. _ From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries. I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best. [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music..You're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :-) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low
Re: OT: Salary rant
LOL, well, all I listen to in my car is my satellite radio, but I like to listen to a local radio station while getting ready for work to hear the traffic reports. All I listen to on the satellite is 80's, 70's some 60's, Christian, jazz and a comedy channel. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Kim Longenbaugh k...@colonialsavings.comwrote: No, I’ve missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! -- *From:* Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... -- *From:* Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. -- *From:* Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. “This too, shall pass”, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It’s a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best… [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music….*You’re the best, around. No one’s ever gunna beat you down*) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam
RE: OT: Salary rant
NPR From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:28 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant LOL, well, all I listen to in my car is my satellite radio, but I like to listen to a local radio station while getting ready for work to hear the traffic reports. All I listen to on the satellite is 80's, 70's some 60's, Christian, jazz and a comedy channel. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Kim Longenbaugh k...@colonialsavings.com wrote: No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :-) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I
RE: OT: Salary rant
I listen to NPR too...I like/hate listening to the bias and filtering on our publically funded radio station...sort of a guilty pleasure. Like liberals who listen to Bill Orally. I know, I need help...heh. Bill Lambert Concuity 847-941-9206 From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:32 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant NPR From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:28 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant LOL, well, all I listen to in my car is my satellite radio, but I like to listen to a local radio station while getting ready for work to hear the traffic reports. All I listen to on the satellite is 80's, 70's some 60's, Christian, jazz and a comedy channel. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Kim Longenbaugh k...@colonialsavings.com wrote: No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought
RE: OT: Salary rant
I mean OReilly Bill Lambert Concuity 847-941-9206 From: Bill Lambert [mailto:blamb...@concuity.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:36 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I listen to NPR too...I like/hate listening to the bias and filtering on our publically funded radio station...sort of a guilty pleasure. Like liberals who listen to Bill Orally. I know, I need help...heh. Bill Lambert Concuity 847-941-9206 From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:32 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant NPR From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:28 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant LOL, well, all I listen to in my car is my satellite radio, but I like to listen to a local radio station while getting ready for work to hear the traffic reports. All I listen to on the satellite is 80's, 70's some 60's, Christian, jazz and a comedy channel. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Kim Longenbaugh k...@colonialsavings.com wrote: No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home
RE: OT: Salary rant
+1 Shook From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:37 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant If you're lucky! From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:25 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Do I hear banjo music? From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:20 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.commailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.commailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.commailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.commailto:christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better
RE: OT: Salary rant
No... I don't think so. I stay away from the Cahulawassee River. :-) From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:37 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant If you're lucky! From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:25 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Do I hear banjo music? From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:20 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :-) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more
RE: OT: Salary rant
However, you don't seem to avoid stereotypes quite so assiduously, I see. :-) From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:41 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant No... I don't think so. I stay away from the Cahulawassee River. :-) From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:37 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant If you're lucky! From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:25 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Do I hear banjo music? From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:20 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :-) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought
RE: OT: Salary rant
touche' From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant However, you don't seem to avoid stereotypes quite so assiduously, I see. :-) From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:41 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant No... I don't think so. I stay away from the Cahulawassee River. :-) From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:37 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant If you're lucky! From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:25 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Do I hear banjo music? From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:20 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :-) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good
RE: OT: Salary rant
Ditto, Mgmt here also has a similar view and has foregone raises, and bonuses, so everyone is sharing the pain. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505 From: Erik Goldoff [mailto:egold...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:58 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant You're not alone ... here in the ATL there's an ad for a similar IT training ( can't remember the name right now ) that claims in the IT field, Unlimited Career Potential in IT ... argggh! Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
No, I think you got it right the first time. :-P John-AldrichTile-Tools From: Bill Lambert [mailto:blamb...@concuity.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 9:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I mean OReilly.. Bill Lambert Concuity 847-941-9206 From: Bill Lambert [mailto:blamb...@concuity.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:36 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I listen to NPR too.I like/hate listening to the bias and filtering on our publically funded radio station.sort of a guilty pleasure. Like liberals who listen to Bill Orally. I know, I need help.heh. Bill Lambert Concuity 847-941-9206 From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:32 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant NPR _ From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:28 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant LOL, well, all I listen to in my car is my satellite radio, but I like to listen to a local radio station while getting ready for work to hear the traffic reports. All I listen to on the satellite is 80's, 70's some 60's, Christian, jazz and a comedy channel. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Kim Longenbaugh k...@colonialsavings.com wrote: No, I've missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! _ From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... _ From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. _ From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries. I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best. [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music..You're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy
Re: OT: Salary rant
There is a similar advertisement in the DC area6 months of hard work and you get PAID! Yeah, right. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 8:47 AM, Sherry Abercrombie saber...@gmail.comwrote: I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.comwrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... -- *From:* Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. -- *From:* Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. “This too, shall pass”, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It’s a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best… [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music….*You’re the best, around. No one’s ever gunna beat you down*) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown -- Sherry Abercrombie Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Arthur C. Clarke ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE
Re: OT: Salary rant
At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don’t see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isn’t a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs a week now a days) learn all you can learn with new technologies, and bide your time. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505 From:James Kerr [mailto:cluster...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:17 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - From:Sam Cayze To:NT System Admin Issues Sent:Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM Subject:RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From:Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. “This too, shall pass”, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It’s a killer
Re: OT: Salary rant
Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. -- *From:* Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don’t see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly.. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isn’t a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs a week now a days) learn all you can learn with new technologies, and bide your time. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505 -- *From:* James Kerr [mailto:cluster...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:17 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - *From:* Sam Cayze sam.ca...@rollouts.com *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. -- *From:* Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here
Re: OT: Salary rant
Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. -- *From:* Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don’t see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly.. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isn’t a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs a week now a days) learn all you can learn with new technologies, and bide your time. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505 -- *From:* James Kerr [mailto:cluster...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:17 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - *From:* Sam Cayze sam.ca...@rollouts.com *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. -- *From:* Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com
RE: OT: Salary rant
How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly.. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isn't a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs a week now a days) learn all you can learn with new technologies, and bide your time. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505
RE: OT: Salary rant
I just got a survey today from Dice about tech salaries. The title page says Average tech salaries rise even as the economy falls. Average increase of 4.6 percent is greater than the previous year increase of 1.7 percent It claims to have gathered responses from more than 19000 tech workers. But here is why (I think) it shouldn't have been released - it was compiled between August - November 2008. I would bet that most of the respondents have either taken a cut, or lost jobs. -- Bob Fronk P Please print only as needed. From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:06 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.commailto:vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.commailto:scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.commailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly.. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isn't a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs
RE: OT: Salary rant
they're only as good as the demographic, and quantity, that responds to the surveys ... Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security _ From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:06 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.comwrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? -- *From:* Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. -- *From:* Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don’t see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly.. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isn’t a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs a week now a days) learn all you can learn with new technologies, and bide your time. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505 -- *From:* James Kerr [mailto:cluster...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 7:17
RE: OT: Salary rant
So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet
Re: OT: Salary rant
Elaborate. What are you doing now, and what are you looking to do? What constitutes up for you? -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com wrote: So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ *Cameron Cooper* *IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified* Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? -- *From:* Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. -- *From:* Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don’t see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training
RE: OT: Salary rant
Yes, I know. And it all adds up to build unrealistic expectations. From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come
RE: OT: Salary rant
Become an air traffic controller. Less stress and better hours... From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:29 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours
Re: OT: Salary rant
AT the moment I would say stay out of it. Jon On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com wrote: So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ *Cameron Cooper* *IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified* Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? -- *From:* Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. -- *From:* Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don’t see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head
Re: OT: Salary rant
It is really unfortunate that they are being mislead like this. 10-15yrs ago this was probably true. While they were outsourcing manufacturing jobs the high tech jobs were the ones Americans were suppose to train for for the good salaries. Then they started outsourcing high tech jobs so now what are these people suppose to do? All work for health care of Govt? GE said they were starting to bring jobs back to the USA. Thankfully one company had realized what a bonehead move it was to oursource jobs. Original Message: - From: Sherry Abercrombie saber...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:38:58 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. -- *From:* Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I dont see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly.. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put in the time, (and we all know it isnt a 40 hr work week, you are lucky if you get away with 60-70 hrs a week now a days) learn all you can learn with new technologies, and bide your time. Z Edward Ziots Network Engineer Lifespan Organization MCSE,MCSA,MCP+I, ME, CCA, Security +, Network + ezi...@lifespan.org Phone:401-639-3505 -- *From:* James Kerr [mailto:cluster
RE: OT: Salary rant
I know this was tongue in cheek, but it's definitely not less stress. (Or at least it wouldn't be for me.) There is also a maximum age for entering the field unless you have prior experience as a military controller. I think it's 30. From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:31 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Become an air traffic controller. Less stress and better hours... From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:29 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday
RE: OT: Salary rant
Seriously, if you're looking to move, be prepared to move physically to another city. Also, companies that are cutting their IT staff have to get support somewhere and will look to consultants or contract services. Those would be my choice IF I needed to move. If you enjoy working in IT and want to stay in it, the best advice I've seen on this thread is to weather out the storm and wait until jobs start opening up again. Until that happens, do the best you can so you can keep the job you have. From: Jon Harris [mailto:jk.har...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:33 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant AT the moment I would say stay out of it. Jon On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com wrote: So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother
RE: OT: Salary rant
This depends a great deal on what you mean by move up. Some people want to stay in IT and move within that career track, others want to start in IT and move up to manage IT workers, they are completely different careers, so the only answer to your very general question is It depends. TVK From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:29 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.commailto:ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.commailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.commailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.commailto:vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.commailto:scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.commailto:ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out
RE: OT: Salary rant
From IT Director to ??? (CIO). MBA, Project Management??? There is a great book. The Executives Guide to Information Technology http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470095210/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=30 4485901 http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470095210/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=3 04485901pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1pf_rd_t=201pf_rd_i=0471266094pf_rd_m=ATV PDKIKX0DERpf_rd_r=0XYY03HV01EE7VB28FWX pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1pf_rd_t=201pf_rd_i=0471266094pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0D ERpf_rd_r=0XYY03HV01EE7VB28FWX I am not an CIO (not even close), but I use it. Great info. From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:29 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? _ From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. _ From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies
RE: OT: Salary rant
And for those over 31 years old? From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:31 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Become an air traffic controller. Less stress and better hours... _ From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:29 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? _ From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. _ From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year
RE: OT: Salary rant
Stuck in IT I suppose... From: Jacob [mailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:14 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant And for those over 31 years old? From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:31 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Become an air traffic controller. Less stress and better hours... From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:29 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM
Re: OT: Salary rant
I thought I read somewhere that IBM is heading the opposite direction. One of my neighbors is an engineer at a local chip (not Inte) company. As an example, my counterpart in Costa Rica makes 1/3 of what I make. In China, he makes 1/4. These guys are doing the same job I do. He's also said workers in a chipmaking plant in China gets $300/month. mse...@ont.com mse...@ont.com 8/12/2009 10:39 AM It is really unfortunate that they are being mislead like this. 10-15yrs ago this was probably true. While they were outsourcing manufacturing jobs the high tech jobs were the ones Americans were suppose to train for for the good salaries. Then they started outsourcing high tech jobs so now what are these people suppose to do? All work for health care of Govt? GE said they were starting to bring jobs back to the USA. Thankfully one company had realized what a bonehead move it was to oursource jobs. Original Message: - From: Sherry Abercrombie saber...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:38:58 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. -- *From:* Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don’t see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer for just this year) along with the raise in paying more for your benefits, less in the 401K, 403B, and no training budget) be happy you have a job and a roof over your head, it could be a lot worse, and quiet quickly.. I agree use the opportunity to stand out, put
RE: OT: Salary rant
Bomb technician... Same deal, less stress and better hours. :-) From: Jacob [mailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 1:14 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant And for those over 31 years old? From: Maglinger, Paul [mailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:31 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Become an air traffic controller. Less stress and better hours... From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:29 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin
Re: OT: Salary rant
Everytime I read that IT salaries are going up, I think of all the articles I read saying the economy is better because unemployment claims are down. Problem with those figures is they don't count all the people still looking for work who have run out of unemployment. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:25 PM, RAY ZORZ rz...@azcorrections.gov wrote: I thought I read somewhere that IBM is heading the opposite direction. One of my neighbors is an engineer at a local chip (not Inte) company. As an example, my counterpart in Costa Rica makes 1/3 of what I make. In China, he makes 1/4. These guys are doing the same job I do. He's also said workers in a chipmaking plant in China gets $300/month. mse...@ont.com mse...@ont.com 8/12/2009 10:39 AM It is really unfortunate that they are being mislead like this. 10-15yrs ago this was probably true. While they were outsourcing manufacturing jobs the high tech jobs were the ones Americans were suppose to train for for the good salaries. Then they started outsourcing high tech jobs so now what are these people suppose to do? All work for health care of Govt? GE said they were starting to bring jobs back to the USA. Thankfully one company had realized what a bonehead move it was to oursource jobs. Original Message: - From: Sherry Abercrombie saber...@gmail.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:38:58 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. -- *From:* Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are “bleeding a nickel” when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs
Re: OT: Salary rant
Paddle faster... On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 06:24, Maglinger, Paulpmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: Do I hear banjo music? From: Kim Longenbaugh [mailto:k...@colonialsavings.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 8:20 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant No, I’ve missed it, Sherry. Every since I got my satellite radio, all I listen to is Bluegrass music. No news, no adds, just good quality music! From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 7:47 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I have to laugh at the irony of this discussion. Hey Kim, have you heard the radio advertisements for this place? http://mycomputercareer.com/ I wish I could record the audio of this radio ad so yall could hear it. Basically they are saying that even in a down economy all companies still need computer support and you can earn more money than you've ever earned before and in as little as three months have the certifications that employers are looking for. Stimulus money is available and deferred student loans are available. I just want to scream whenever I hear this ad, especially since I'm hearing it on our local Christian radio station, talk about false advertising (IMNSHO). The Dallas/Ft. Worth area has not really been hit so bad in this economy, but it's not great. Yeah, I just had my annual review and got a great raise, but here at our organization, at the first of the year, management voluntarily elected to forgo their raises for this yeartraining budget is non-existent and new hardware is on an as needed basis and it has to be really needed. I'm grateful to have a good job, and for management that sees the long-term benefits of making a personal sacrifice that will benefit their employees and ultimately them. Happy employees = loyal employees. It's a win-win deal for all. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 7:06 AM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: And speaking of biting, keep in mind that rants on the internet can have a way of coming back and biting you... From: Sam Cayze [mailto:sam.ca...@rollouts.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:49 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. “This too, shall pass”, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It’s a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best… [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music….You’re the best, around. No one’s ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T
RE: OT: Salary rant
Plastic Surgery. Original Message: - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too, and possibly for longer
RE: OT: Salary rant
Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending for a few years to come. Like its been said before for those that get raises ( Ours have been frozen too
Re: OT: Salary rant
North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021 Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when
Re: OT: Salary rant
Being born and raised in North Dakota, I can see myself going back. Wife is convinced otherwise. Cold isn't as bad as you think it is. And 40 below keeps the riff-raff out. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Kurt Buff kurt.b...@gmail.com wrote: North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough
RE: OT: Salary rant
I hear you can get a good deal on a used car up there from Jerry Lundegaard. Chris Bodnar, MCSE Sr. Systems Engineer Distributed Systems Service Delivery - Intel Services Guardian Life Insurance Company of America Email: christopher_bod...@glic.com Phone: 610-807-6459 Fax: 610-807-6003 -Original Message- From: kurt.b...@gmail.com [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:22 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021 Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help
RE: OT: Salary rant
Yeah...but who wants to go work in North Dakota... I mean that place gets COLD! :-) -Original Message- From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:22 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021 Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues
RE: OT: Salary rant
What do you do as IT Director? Kind of surprised that a director-level person would be on a techie list - IT Director's don't get their hands dirty often, do they? I'm glad there are folks like you who actually WANT to do director -- C-level stuff. My boss asked me a few months ago what I would like to be doing a couple years from now and down the road farther...a promotion to Sr. Systems Engineer would be pretty much it, I have zero desire to do anything other than be the guy folks come to for the tougher troubleshooting and implementing new infrastructure and figuring out the details of how to make subsystem A integrate with subsystem B. Put another way, I want to be the one that the C-level types think should be easy to do (because they don't know the technical hurdles), but that some techs think is impossible to actually achieve (because they DO know the technical hurdles). Dave From: Jacob [mailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:13 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant From IT Director to ??? (CIO). MBA, Project Management??? There is a great book... The Executives Guide to Information Technology http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470095210/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=304485901pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1pf_rd_t=201pf_rd_i=0471266094pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_r=0XYY03HV01EE7VB28FWX I am not an CIO (not even close), but I use it. Great info. From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:29 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.commailto:ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.commailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.commailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.commailto:vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.commailto:scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got
RE: OT: Salary rant
I got the 3 cent'r Marge! Bill Lambert Concuity 847-941-9206 -Original Message- From: Christopher Bodnar [mailto:christopher_bod...@glic.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:33 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I hear you can get a good deal on a used car up there from Jerry Lundegaard. Chris Bodnar, MCSE Sr. Systems Engineer Distributed Systems Service Delivery - Intel Services Guardian Life Insurance Company of America Email: christopher_bod...@glic.com Phone: 610-807-6459 Fax: 610-807-6003 -Original Message- From: kurt.b...@gmail.com [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:22 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021 Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have
Re: OT: Salary rant
Despite the name of the movie, most of it took place in Minnesota... On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Bill Lambert blamb...@concuity.com wrote: I got the 3 cent'r Marge! Bill Lambert Concuity 847-941-9206 -Original Message- From: Christopher Bodnar [mailto:christopher_bod...@glic.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:33 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I hear you can get a good deal on a used car up there from Jerry Lundegaard. Chris Bodnar, MCSE Sr. Systems Engineer Distributed Systems Service Delivery - Intel Services Guardian Life Insurance Company of America Email: christopher_bod...@glic.com Phone: 610-807-6459 Fax: 610-807-6003 -Original Message- From: kurt.b...@gmail.com [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:22 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I
Re: OT: Salary rant
It depends on the company and the industry as to whether or not you can be a senior technologist and still get your hands dirty. Some people want to, and some don't. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:34 PM, David Lum david@nwea.org wrote: What do you do as IT Director? Kind of surprised that a director-level person would be on a techie list – IT Director’s don’t get their hands dirty often, do they? I’m glad there are folks like you who actually WANT to do director à C-level stuff. My boss asked me a few months ago what I would like to be doing a couple years from now and down the road farther…a promotion to Sr. Systems Engineer would be pretty much it, I have zero desire to do anything other than be the guy folks come to for the tougher troubleshooting and implementing new infrastructure and figuring out the details of how to make subsystem A integrate with subsystem B. Put another way, I want to be the one that the C-level types think should be easy to do (because they don’t know the technical hurdles), but that some techs think is impossible to actually achieve (because they DO know the technical hurdles). Dave *From:* Jacob [mailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:13 AM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant From IT Director to ??? (CIO). MBA, Project Management??? There is a great book… “The Executives Guide to Information Technology” http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470095210/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=304485901pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1pf_rd_t=201pf_rd_i=0471266094pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_r=0XYY03HV01EE7VB28FWX I am not an CIO (not even close), but I use it. Great info. *From:* Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:29 AM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ *Cameron Cooper* *IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified* Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? -- *From:* Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job
RE: OT: Salary rant
I think you will find that, as a generalization, things are not nearly so bad economically in the central US (ND down to TX) as they are on the 2 coasts. If you want warm just head to Oklahoma or Texas. :-) TVK -Original Message- From: John Aldrich [mailto:jaldr...@blueridgecarpet.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:33 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Yeah...but who wants to go work in North Dakota... I mean that place gets COLD! :-) -Original Message- From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:22 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021 Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent
Re: OT: Salary rant
Of course if I worked for Excalibur films I'd be happy to get my hands dirty! John W. Cook Systems Administrator Partnership For Strong Families Sent to you from my Blackberry in the Cloud From: Andrew S. Baker To: NT System Admin Issues Sent: Wed Aug 12 15:45:27 2009 Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant It depends on the company and the industry as to whether or not you can be a senior technologist and still get your hands dirty. Some people want to, and some don't. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:34 PM, David Lum david@nwea.orgmailto:david@nwea.org wrote: What do you do as IT Director? Kind of surprised that a director-level person would be on a techie lis� IT Direct�s dot get their hands dirty often, do they? I���m glad there are folks like you who actually WANT to do director -- C-level stuff. My boss asked me a few months ago what I would like to be doing a couple years from now and down the road farth�a promotion to Sr. Systems Engineer would be pretty much it, I have zero desire to do anything other than be the guy folks come to for the tougher troubleshooting and implementing new infrastructure and figuring out the details of how to make subsystem A integrate with subsystem B. Put another way, I want to be the one that the C-level types think should be easy to do (because they dot know the technical hurdles), but that some techs think is impossible to actually achieve (because they DO know the technical hurdles). Dave From: Jacob [mailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.commailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:13 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant From IT Director to ??? (CIO). MBA, Project Management??? There is a great booThe Executives Guide to Information Technology��� http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470095210/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=304485901pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1pf_rd_t=201pf_rd_i=0471266094pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_r=0XYY03HV01EE7VB28FWX I am not an CIO (not even close), but I use it. Great info. From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.commailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:29 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.commailto:ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.commailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.commailto:pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.commailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.commailto:vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.commailto:scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed
RE: OT: Salary rant
We're a small company that has about 50 users, and I'm the only other IT person here besides my boss. Would like to move to a mid-size company, although not sure about a large size. _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:35 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant What do you do as IT Director? Kind of surprised that a director-level person would be on a techie list - IT Director's don't get their hands dirty often, do they? I'm glad there are folks like you who actually WANT to do director à C-level stuff. My boss asked me a few months ago what I would like to be doing a couple years from now and down the road farther...a promotion to Sr. Systems Engineer would be pretty much it, I have zero desire to do anything other than be the guy folks come to for the tougher troubleshooting and implementing new infrastructure and figuring out the details of how to make subsystem A integrate with subsystem B. Put another way, I want to be the one that the C-level types think should be easy to do (because they don't know the technical hurdles), but that some techs think is impossible to actually achieve (because they DO know the technical hurdles). Dave From: Jacob [mailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:13 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant From IT Director to ??? (CIO). MBA, Project Management??? There is a great book... The Executives Guide to Information Technology http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470095210/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=304485901pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1pf_rd_t=201pf_rd_i=0471266094pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_r=0XYY03HV01EE7VB28FWX I am not an CIO (not even close), but I use it. Great info. From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:29 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find
Re: OT: Salary rant
You should change your job title, it will make it easier to find a technical position. I'm in the same boat but I cant change it, I'm the Information Services Manager and do take care of some management stuff but I'm a sys admin and I would like my title to reflect that but that isn't the way they structure things in non-profits it seems. James - Original Message - From: Cameron Cooper To: NT System Admin Issues Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:54 PM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant We're a small company that has about 50 users, and I'm the only other IT person here besides my boss. Would like to move to a mid-size company, although not sure about a large size. _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: David Lum [mailto:david@nwea.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:35 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant What do you do as IT Director? Kind of surprised that a director-level person would be on a techie list - IT Director's don't get their hands dirty often, do they? I'm glad there are folks like you who actually WANT to do director à C-level stuff. My boss asked me a few months ago what I would like to be doing a couple years from now and down the road farther.a promotion to Sr. Systems Engineer would be pretty much it, I have zero desire to do anything other than be the guy folks come to for the tougher troubleshooting and implementing new infrastructure and figuring out the details of how to make subsystem A integrate with subsystem B. Put another way, I want to be the one that the C-level types think should be easy to do (because they don't know the technical hurdles), but that some techs think is impossible to actually achieve (because they DO know the technical hurdles). Dave From: Jacob [mailto:ja...@excaliburfilms.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:13 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant From IT Director to ??? (CIO). MBA, Project Management??? There is a great book. The Executives Guide to Information Technology http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0470095210/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=304485901pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1pf_rd_t=201pf_rd_i=0471266094pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_r=0XYY03HV01EE7VB28FWX I am not an CIO (not even close), but I use it. Great info. From: Cameron Cooper [mailto:ccoo...@aurico.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 10:29 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? -- From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over
Re: OT: Salary rant
My son is in Rapid City, SD. I could move there. While it certainly gets cold, it's not like you're socked in for months in the snow like upstate NY. Jonathan Link jonathan.l...@gmail.com 8/12/2009 12:28 PM Being born and raised in North Dakota, I can see myself going back. Wife is convinced otherwise. Cold isn't as bad as you think it is. And 40 below keeps the riff-raff out. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Kurt Buff kurt.b...@gmail.com wrote: North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact
RE: OT: Salary rant
My gramma was from ND. Visited there twice. Between the stories and the visits, I'm with your wife. [1] -sc [1] Go ahead Shooky From: Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:28 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Being born and raised in North Dakota, I can see myself going back. Wife is convinced otherwise. Cold isn't as bad as you think it is. And 40 below keeps the riff-raff out. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Kurt Buff kurt.b...@gmail.com wrote: North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000
Re: OT: Salary rant
No downturn here in Winnipeg...north of ND. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Richard Stovall richard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced that. From: Ziots, Edward ezi...@lifespan.org To: NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:34:23 AM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant I agree, right now, a lot if not most companies are bleeding a nickel when it comes to getting maximum productivity out of workers, on top of reducing costs any and every way they can. I don't see this trend ending
Re: OT: Salary rant
We embrace the cold...spend lots of time outside in the winter (hockey, snowmobiling, skiing, etc). Makes you appreciate the hot summers so much more. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Steven M. Caesare scaes...@caesare.comwrote: My gramma was from ND. Visited there twice. Between the stories and the visits, I’m with your wife. [1] -sc [1] Go ahead Shooky *From:* Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:28 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Being born and raised in North Dakota, I can see myself going back. Wife is convinced otherwise. Cold isn't as bad as you think it is. And 40 below keeps the riff-raff out. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Kurt Buff kurt.b...@gmail.com wrote: North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So
RE: OT: Salary rant
Hmmm, going up to visit friends in Minot. Maybe I'll just stay and enjoy the, um, well -Original Message- From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:22 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021 Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out of our house and live with my brother. But the rent wont cover the mortgage and we have already accepted the fact that we will lose our house. I have spent $3,000 on two attorneys to help us with the mortgage company.. no help. I get a kick reading that IT jobs are the hot jobs and they are hard to fill. Not enough skilled workers. I have not experienced
RE: OT: Salary rant
Wow. My family is from Minot. Was there 2 years ago to bury my gramma. My 99 yr old great aunt still lives there. -sc -Original Message- From: N Parr [mailto:npar...@mortonind.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 4:17 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Hmmm, going up to visit friends in Minot. Maybe I'll just stay and enjoy the, um, well -Original Message- From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:22 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021 Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply. Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company will not do a forbearance so we have to move out
Re: OT: Salary rant
I remember back in 6th grade, so that would put it around winter of '81-'82 that Bismarck had 45 consecutive days of below zero weather. It's cold, true, but when it's that cold it doesn't snow (much), although hockey would be tough in that weather ice doesn't get slick when it's so cold the pressure from your weight on a skate doesn't make water... Found this article snippet when I googled to help my memory.. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1368dat=19820211id=eHwWIBAJsjid=HBIEIBAJpg=4143,1745768 On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Steve Ens stevey...@gmail.com wrote: We embrace the cold...spend lots of time outside in the winter (hockey, snowmobiling, skiing, etc). Makes you appreciate the hot summers so much more. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Steven M. Caesare scaes...@caesare.comwrote: My gramma was from ND. Visited there twice. Between the stories and the visits, I’m with your wife. [1] -sc [1] Go ahead Shooky *From:* Jonathan Link [mailto:jonathan.l...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:28 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* Re: OT: Salary rant Being born and raised in North Dakota, I can see myself going back. Wife is convinced otherwise. Cold isn't as bad as you think it is. And 40 below keeps the riff-raff out. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 3:21 PM, Kurt Buff kurt.b...@gmail.com wrote: North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview
Re: OT: Salary rant
Good age! I watched this movie the other night http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0978759 and the weather looked fairly fresh. Northern NY State I believe. -- Peter van Houten On the 12/08/2009 22:17, Steven M. Caesare wrote the following: Wow. My family is from Minot. Was there 2 years ago to bury my gramma. My 99 yr old great aunt still lives there. -sc -Original Message- From: N Parr [mailto:npar...@mortonind.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 4:17 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Hmmm, going up to visit friends in Minot. Maybe I'll just stay and enjoy the, um, well -Original Message- From: Kurt Buff [mailto:kurt.b...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 2:22 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant North Dakota - unemployment rate is about 4%, and the State government is running a surplus, according to NPR/Marketplace radio piece I heard last night. Several thousand job openings, too. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 12:12, Richard Stovallrichard.stov...@researchdata.com wrote: Canada? (If you're a Northern Hemisphere kinda person.) - From: Cameron Cooper ccoo...@aurico.com Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 12:29:22 -0500 To: ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant So for someone who is looking to move up in the IT field, what do people recommend? _ Cameron Cooper IT Director - CompTIA A+ Certified Aurico Reports, Inc Phone: 847-890-4021Fax: 847-255-1896 ccoo...@aurico.com From: Andrew S. Baker [mailto:asbz...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:26 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Remember that when you look at averages for the US on a whole, you have to take into account the higher salaries available in the metro areas. I find that most of the salaries in the more comprehensive surveys are low to average for the NYC metro area. It all depends on the sample demographics. -ASB On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Maglinger, Paul pmaglin...@scvl.com wrote: How about those salary surveys in the trade rags? From: Sherry Abercrombie [mailto:saber...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 11:39 AM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Yup, what Vicky said. I've read too many stories like yours Scott, so when I hear those radio ads, I KNOW it's not true and it just ticks me off actually that they are even doing it. But, like they are saying in their ad, stimulus money is availableand I don't want this to denigrate into a political discussion but it just makes me angry when an unscrupulous company is capitalizing on a government handout and preying on clueless people and they won't be able to make good on their promises of a great paying career in IT. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Vicky Spelshaus vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com wrote: Ouch! just ouch. On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Scott Williamson scottwilliamson...@yahoo.com wrote: At least everybody here has a job. I lost my job in March.. The recession hurt our online sales (50% drop in sales). The owner, who had no clue when it came to SEO/SEM, decided to make all these changes to get it in top of the search engines. He ignored the employees, including our marketing person. We said this would hurt us even more. Boom!... an 80% drop in sales. From over $40,000 a day in online sale to just over $8,000 in six months. The owner kept assuring us that the company has been through this before and we will weather is out. The company has over $2 millions in reserves (found out this was not true). The owner quietly sold the business under us. We came to work and it was closed. Your paychecks will be sent in the mail. It never came. Company filed for bankruptcy the same day it closed. I went from 115K a year as the IT Director to $450 a week on unemployment. If figured with 15 years IT experience, a Masters in Information Systems, a PMP, A+, Network+, MCP, and advanced ColdFusion certified, I could find a job. Nope... Over 200 positions I have applied or sent my resume to and I got only one interview for an System Administrator making $55,000. The only way I got the interview was because I has to dumb down my resume. Did not get the job. They found someone with more experience and the HR person said that over 300 people applied for the position.. Three years ago, they could barely get 5 to apply.Recruiters are no help. I do have family in the Dallas area, and got a couple hits from companies in Dalles. But the both stated that because I am out of town, they feel I will leave when things pick up. Not true. I am looking to get out of California! So.. it is now August. My savings is dried up and my wife makes $40,000 a year as a dental assistant.. Not enough in Southern California. Mortgage company
OT: Salary rant
I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
I feel your pain, but it could be worse you mentioned unemployment... let me offer you another 'worse' - state employment. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
A promise is only as good as a piece of paper signed by both parties (i.e. a contract) and sometimes not even then. Are you actually signing a contract for a specified term? Do you see any other prospects out there? On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
You could join the federal government's largest unemployment program. TSA! From: Vicky Spelshaus [mailto:vicky.spelsh...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 1:54 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant I feel your pain, but it could be worse you mentioned unemployment... let me offer you another 'worse' - state employment. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. :) On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.commailto:christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
...i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). and no doubt when this period of 'economy sucks' is past, those good employers will certainly ( most will, all SHOULD ) remember who stood with them keeping the business running, ( they WILL remember those that bitched and moaned and complained the entire time, just not fondly, and will quickly forget those that jumped ship ) Erik Goldoff IT Consultant Systems, Networks, Security _ From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 5:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries. I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best. [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music..You're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
RE: OT: Salary rant
Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries... I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best... [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament musicYou're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - From: Sam Cayze To: NT System Admin Issues Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. -- From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries. I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best. [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music..You're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
Some businesses are cyclical, some are anti-cyclical. And every recession (and the Great Depression) is a period of opportunity for those willing to find the silver lining. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:16 PM, James Kerr cluster...@gmail.com wrote: Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - *From:* Sam Cayze sam.ca...@rollouts.com *To:* NT System Admin Issues ntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. -- *From:* Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] *Sent:* Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM *To:* NT System Admin Issues *Subject:* RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. “This too, shall pass”, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It’s a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best… [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music….*You’re the best, around. No one’s ever gunna beat you down*) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
My advice is to take the sure thing right now. You can always keep looking. Also, look at Federal jobs. The gov't is always hiring! Heck, I got 3 e-mails today (granted they were from the same recruiter for the same job) for an Exchange admin in Maryland. But I'm sure the DC/VA/MD area is not the only place where they have IT positions open. Take a look: http://www.usajobs.gov/ On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
The key is to be actively managing your career at all times -- even when you are reasonably content. You still have an option to negotiate. Consider, not money, but some other benefit like an additional week of vacation, or something like a week of training plus certification. Even in a down economy, you have a little leverage. Just play wisely. They are there to manage their interests, and you are there to manage yours. ASB Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Rob Bonfiglio robbonfig...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 20:48:22 To: NT System Admin Issuesntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant My advice is to take the sure thing right now. You can always keep looking. Also, look at Federal jobs. The gov't is always hiring! Heck, I got 3 e-mails today (granted they were from the same recruiter for the same job) for an Exchange admin in Maryland. But I'm sure the DC/VA/MD area is not the only place where they have IT positions open. Take a look: http://www.usajobs.gov/ On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know ÿ’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and iÿ’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Cÿÿ’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
I'll trade you your 1% for my entire office closing Oct. 30. On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 7:16 PM, James Kerrcluster...@gmail.com wrote: Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - From: Sam Cayze To: NT System Admin Issues Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It’s tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN’ COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you’re standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries… I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. “This too, shall pass”, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It’s a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best… [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music….You’re the best, around. No one’s ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I’m not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it’s 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I’d tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can’t afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
Re: OT: Salary rant
No, you really shouldn't. :) Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: James Kerr cluster...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:16:54 To: NT System Admin Issuesntsysadmin@lyris.sunbelt-software.com Subject: Re: OT: Salary rant Guess I shouldn't complain about our 1% raise company wide. - Original Message - From: Sam Cayze To: NT System Admin Issues Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Well put, nice words Andy. (And others). They might be lowballing to find someone serious about the position, not the paycheck. If you bite, they may make it worth your while if you are committed. -- From: Andy Shook [mailto:andy.sh...@peak10.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 11, 2009 4:27 PM To: NT System Admin Issues Subject: RE: OT: Salary rant Chris, It's tough out there no doubt and I feel your pain, many of us that are employed are right there with you. Salary cuts, benefit cost increases, insurance coverage decreases, 401(k)s turning into 101(k)s, furloughs, FREAKIN' COMISSION PLAN RESTRUCTURES (I fell better). The cut sucks, I understand, but you're standing there with an FULL TIME OFFER LETTER. To many IT guys that are stupid smart are now bagging groceries. I encourage everyone in this situation to look long term; the here and now is not fun but it is temporary. This too, shall pass, wrote the psalmist. I would use the opportunity you have been given to rise above the morale, fear\doom gloom and stand out; i.e. all of you be the rock star in your current position(s). It's a killer opportunity, as the fat has been trimmed and orgs are now focusing on everything everyone with laser precision. Be the best. [1] Shook [1] This could be perceived as an unintentional Karate Kid reference (tournament music..You're the best, around. No one's ever gunna beat you down) but that was not the intent. J On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:49 PM, Christopher Bodnar christopher_bod...@glic.com wrote: I know I'm not going to get a any sympathy here, due to the unemployment rate, and the economy in general, but needed to vent a little. Was hired as a contract to hire position last year. Great company, close to home, good salary. 6 months in they cut my salary by 10% to the contracting company, which was then passed on to me. I was told at the time, that if/when I was offered full time employment, I would be brought on with the initial salary I had started at. Just go the official offer, and it's 5% below that. I know I should be thankful I even have a job, which I am. But I still feel like they are low-balling me just because of the economy. If the economy would be better and more IT jobs out there, I'd tell them to take a hike and see what happens. Can't afford to do that right now with a mortgage and 2 kids. For once I just wish someone would offer me what was promised. Sorry, not looking to offend anyone out there. Just blowing off some steam. Chris ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ -- Organization and good planning are just crutches for people that can't handle stress and caffeine. - unknown ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~ ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/ ~
