Re: [osol-discuss] [distribution-discuss] SchilliX-0.7.0 ready for testing
2010/7/24 C. Bergström codest...@osunix.org: Joerg Schilling wrote: C. Bergström codest...@osunix.org wrote: Did you pull the libc work from Garrett and drop that on there? No, I just created a halfway clean base for starting with the emancipation work. Which compiler did you use to build onnv-gate? OS-12.1 That's not a compiler version. I know gcc doesn't boot, but ping me off list or on irc if you'd like to help test a compiler to replace SS That´s a vague statement. Last time I did this gcc compiled 64bit kernels did boot (sun4u, sun4v, amd64). The 32bit x86 kernel alone was unbootable (and who wants that nowadays, except maybe for embedded use). ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An effort to rally around - building a real, community driven distro...
On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 8:43 AM, John Plocher john.ploc...@gmail.com wrote: Re: http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=129430tstart=15 As Dennis said, We are in a situation after some five years of the OpenSolaris community where one can not simply download sources and build something runnable. We can not even bootstrap the kernel without special corporate internal knowledge and resources. There are still large numbers of closed bins, trap doors and secret hallways just to build the current OpenSolaris code base. That´s not an accurate description. His text proves a few things. Namely that somebody turns things up and down. Ian Murdock was a short flash of light? The kernels are not bootable??? What?? Ok, join that effort, lol . This is an invitation for y'all to come on over to the Distribution community and join us as we brainstorm and code a real, community driven distro into existence. Joerg and Moinak are already there, plotting how they can start by leveraging each other's build procedures and associated source code to allow anyone to easily clone the ON sources from OpenSolaris.org and build a kernel that boots to a shell prompt. Once we get to that point, we'll take another step towards removing barriers and enabling community participation. And another. A bunch of little steps, maybe, but they all add up. Join us! -John Plocher Less talk, more code! IMO this was already too much talk. Everybody can join one of the existing distros, such as BeleniX or MilaX. Recommended: Certain parties should just start reading those websites and associated Blogs first, for the first time! And btw: Everybody can just contribute to existing Sun/Oracle repo gates, such as caiman (led by the very community-involvement openminded David Miner). Why starting this entire ^Dennis needs to lead a new reference^ distro talk? Starting it on the general opensolaris-discuss alias will end up in an endless loop of flames. I rather escape before it gets hot here. [in 2 minutes I unsubscribe from opensol-discuss] %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] An effort to rally around - building a real, community driven distro...
To all who missed the original message: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/distribution-discuss/2010-May/000727.html [distribution-discuss] A community based distro Dennis Clarke dclarke at blastwave.org Mon May 17 16:38:15 UTC 2010 * Previous message: [distribution-discuss] Grub failure, marvell network driver failure * Next message: [distribution-discuss] A community based distro * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] All : After much thought I feel motivated to ask for a new community based distro. It is my opinion that the trademarked OpenSolaris distro is more product than passion. It is more controlled resource than community creation. We are in a situation after some five years of the OpenSolaris community where one can not simply download sources and build something runnable. We can not even bootstrap the kernel without special corporate internal knowledge and resources. There are still large numbers of closed bins, trap doors and secret hallways just to build the current OpenSolaris code base. There was a brief flash of light with Ian Murdock and Project Indiana but this too seems to have fallen entirely into the hands of the corporate bureaucracy. I see no reason to talk about or ask about anything called 2010.03 anymore. It is stagnant. We need the right sort of community people to gather together and to get the required code from here, there and elsewhere to get a kernel booted that has a shell prompt. Get past i18n. We need to identify the road blocks and the secrets and drag them out into the light. Address them one at a time and attack them as needed. I am talking about a community reference distro that anyone can use, build, download and redistribute. -- Dennis Clarke OpenSolaris Governance Board Member 2010 dclarke at opensolaris.ca - Email related to the open source Solaris dclarke at blastwave.org - Email related to open source for Solaris http://www.blastwave.org/ for 64-bit ready software for Solaris http://www.opensolaris.org/ for everything else. On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 9:33 AM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 8:43 AM, John Plocher john.ploc...@gmail.com wrote: Re: http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=129430tstart=15 As Dennis said, We are in a situation after some five years of the OpenSolaris community where one can not simply download sources and build something runnable. We can not even bootstrap the kernel without special corporate internal knowledge and resources. There are still large numbers of closed bins, trap doors and secret hallways just to build the current OpenSolaris code base. That´s not an accurate description. His text proves a few things. Namely that somebody turns things up and down. Ian Murdock was a short flash of light? The kernels are not bootable??? What?? Ok, join that effort, lol . This is an invitation for y'all to come on over to the Distribution community and join us as we brainstorm and code a real, community driven distro into existence. Joerg and Moinak are already there, plotting how they can start by leveraging each other's build procedures and associated source code to allow anyone to easily clone the ON sources from OpenSolaris.org and build a kernel that boots to a shell prompt. Once we get to that point, we'll take another step towards removing barriers and enabling community participation. And another. A bunch of little steps, maybe, but they all add up. Join us! -John Plocher Less talk, more code! IMO this was already too much talk. Everybody can join one of the existing distros, such as BeleniX or MilaX. Recommended: Certain parties should just start reading those websites and associated Blogs first, for the first time! And btw: Everybody can just contribute to existing Sun/Oracle repo gates, such as caiman (led by the very community-involvement openminded David Miner). Why starting this entire ^Dennis needs to lead a new reference^ distro talk? Starting it on the general opensolaris-discuss alias will end up in an endless loop of flames. I rather escape before it gets hot here. [in 2 minutes I unsubscribe from opensol-discuss] %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun's libm availability
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Stathis Kamperis ekamp...@gmail.com wrote: Greetings everyone, I've tried to spot the libm code in onnv-gate, but I failed. Does the Sun's libm fall into the binary/closed bits ? (Yes, I'm aware of the fdlibm but that is outdated and I have reasons to believe that Sun's libm has evolved since then) Thanks, Stathis Hello,I am not sure about the current status (where it now lives), but in the past it used to be available separately (from 2006 on it is available in src). I am not sure if it went into any public repo, and if so in which. But the old file downloads are still online: http://dlc.sun.com/osol/devpro/downloads/20081119/devpro-libm-src-20060131.tar.bz2 http://dlc.sun.com/osol/devpro/downloads/20081119/ http://dlc.sun.com/osol/devpro/downloads/ *** %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Apologies to all: I fell in Mr. Dave Johnson's trap twice __/__ Re: Slap the troll... / was: Re: This is how Oracle treats open communities and projects. Will OGB intervene?
*** Apologies to all *** ... that I fell in Mr. Dave Johnson's traps twice. Recently I didn't have much time for OpenSolaris. I did not back-check Dave Johnson's claims sufficiently enough. Sorry! %martin bochnig On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Roland Mainz roland.ma...@nrubsig.org wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Dave Johnson dave.johnson.inqu...@googlemail.com wrote: [snip] Here is the evidence: Evidence 1: - Project cooperation with ksh project withdrawn - GNU commands as replacements are the future -- Forwarded message -- From: John Sonnenschein john.sonnensch...@sun.com Date: Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 6:01 PM Subject: Re: Removal of some redundant GNU utilities [PSARC/2009/660 FastTrack timeout 12/10/2009] To: psarc-...@sun.com After discussions with the OpenSolaris architect and lead, I withdraw this case. It was premature and will be revised as part of a bigger project to provide Solaris modernization using GNU utilities for /usr/bin. Nice attempt, unfortunately (for you) the ARC emails are being archived. John Sonnenschein's original posting can be found at http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-arc/2009-December/019530.html (and I and many others archive the emails at home, too) and differs a lot from the proof you've posted. The diff between his and your email looks like this: -- snip -- @@ -6,8 +6,8 @@ After discussions with the OpenSolaris architect and lead, I withdraw -this case. It was premature and will be considered as part of a bigger -project to provide Solaris moderization. +this case. It was premature and will be revised as part of a bigger +project to provide Solaris modernization using GNU utilities for /usr/bin. -JohnS -- snip -- Please troll somewhere else. Bye, Roland P.S.: Wearing my hat as ksh93-integration project lead: No, neither the ksh93-integration project nor the POSIX modernisation project are dead (neither am I, I am just trying to get rid of some bacteria and Olga Kryzhanovska is currently leading (and in charge) of the projects). -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.ma...@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, CJAVASunUnix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 (;O/ \/ \O;) ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Apologies to all: I fell in Mr. Dave Johnson's trap twice __/__ Re: Slap the troll... / was: Re: This is how Oracle treats open communities and projects. Will OGB intervene?
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Roland Mainz roland.ma...@nrubsig.org wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Dave Johnson dave.johnson.inqu...@googlemail.com wrote: [snip] Bye, Roland P.S.: Wearing my hat as ksh93-integration project lead: No, neither the ksh93-integration project nor the POSIX modernisation project are dead (neither am I, I am just trying to get rid of some bacteria and Olga Kryzhanovska is currently leading (and in charge) of the projects). -- __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.ma...@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, CJAVASunUnix programmer /O /==\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 (;O/ \/ \O;) Hi Roland, nice to hear from you personally. Good look to Olga and you!!! Get rid of those damn bacteria!!! Regards, %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [ogb-discuss] This is how Oracle treats open communities and projects. Will OGB intervene?
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Alan Coopersmith alan.coopersm...@oracle.com wrote: John Sonnenschein wrote: You are forging emails for your own political gains and I'm going to have to ask you to stop slandering me and my work *immediately*. It is completely unacceptable behaviour. Given Mr. Johnson's previous posts about Opera dropping support to avoid huge Oracle fees [1], which the Opera developers have publicly refuted [2], I have to wonder if the OGB shouldn't instead be taking action to remove a disruptive, lying troll from the community. [1] http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2010-April/056232.html [2] http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2010-May/056475.html -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System +1 And he fooled me into believing him and mistakenly supporting him. It appears that he intentionally lied in at least 2 major cases. This violates the TOU. So block him! Once again sorry, that I blindly believed and fed the troll:-( %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] This is how Oracle treats open communities and projects. Will OGB intervene?
No need to wait that long. If there is a call for a vote on the matter you have my public input for a formal ban under the terms of the TOU now. If there are some procedural details we can sort that out as required. Quick question -- will a ban do any good? Is there anyway to verify that david.johnson.x...@gmail.com is anyone actually someone named david.johnson? AFAIK, anyone can get a gmail account and call it anything they want. So, you ban this gmail account, and tomorrow he's back as bill smith, or paul jones. Just asking ... emike Obviously everybody could do this any arbitrary number of times. But every time this person needs a new email address for activating his list subscription(s). After a while this person might get tired of it and go elsewhere. The only 100% waterproof method against such malicious behavior would be, to generally set all list messages to all lists under moderator review. And this would cost money (staff), while simultaneously significantly slowing down communication. You can only add some email address to a blacklist _after_ first impact. Although I see one compromise: Instead of a blacklist a green-list should be maintained. (With all Oracle employees, contributors plus known long-term community members on it). Furthermore I must also agree with Richard Hamilton: With (some more) authoritative community interaction and communication from Oracle's side, nobody could ever have believed such a troll in the first place. Not for a minute! It is Oracle who created the vacuum, which naturally tends to fill up with FUD! And by the way, while I also fell in this troll's 2 traps, it took a long time until somebody went the steps to prove that troll being a liar. So in fact I was by no means the only one who was fooled. While I appear to be the only one until now who apologized and accepted full responsibility for having believed and fed him But unfortunately that's normal social behavior. %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Garrett D'Amore joins Nexenta. if needed, can nexenta become the fork?
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Edward Martinez mindbende...@live.com wrote: I was wondering with D'Amore jumping over to Nexenta. if the time comes to take drastic measures, if they are willing and have the resources, can something be organized with nexenta to become the fork? Troll. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] This is how Oracle treats open communities and projects. Will OGB intervene?
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:33 PM, John Plocher john.ploc...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Dave Johnson dave.johnson.inqu...@googlemail.com wrote: This is how Oracle treats open communities and projects. Will OGB intervene? While I have not been following this soap opera in excruciating detail, my reading of the ARC discussions was that the ksh-93 project to replace existing GNU utilities with ksh-wrapper AST based versions that were not completely compatible and that would not track future evolution of the GNU utilities was withdrawn for good architectural reasons. Since the ARC case was not approved, it follows that repo putback access for that part of the project would also be withheld - a standard ON procedural action that applies to everyone: No approved ARC case, no putback. To answer your question: Will the OGB intervene? The constitution says (note the first sentence): 3.1 Disputes It is expected and encouraged that groups will resolve disputes by themselves according to their documented decision-making procedures. If a dispute can not be resolved within a group or it spreads between groups, then the Governing Board may choose to intervene. The Board will consider disputes on a case-by-case basis and may decline to intervene. If the Board chooses to intervene, it will resolve the issue at its absolute discretion with no possibility of appeal. Its resolution will be binding on all parties. Given this understanding (which may be flawed, but your posts do nothing to show that it is), this all smells like an overly emotional early Monday morning troll; I see no reason for the OGB to get involved. -John It appears too few of you all here are regular readers or subscribers of ksh93-integration-discuss. Then read first (last 2 months) before prematurely labeling somebody an evil Monday-morning-troll. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] This is how Oracle treats open communities and projects. Will OGB intervene?
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:40 PM, Dennis Clarke dcla...@blastwave.org wrote: On 05-10-10, John Plocher john.ploc...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 6:15 AM, Dave Johnson dave.johnson.inqu...@googlemail.com wrote: This is how Oracle treats open communities and projects. Will OGB intervene? While I have not been following this soap opera in excruciating detail John, I looked at it as some guy making a fair amount of noise and quoting himself in his arguments. So like I said in an earlier message, I made a cup of coffee and then felt that it wasn't worth looking at. Personally I see the ksh93 shell work as some of the best open source collaboration in modern UNIX(R) history. I fully expect that it will always be around forever as some sort of package set to be installed. Dennis Hi quoted not only himself. Drink more coffee until you notice. Here I help you a bit: -- Forwarded message -- From: John Sonnenschein John.Sonnenschein at sun.com Date: Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 6:01 PM Subject: Re: Removal of some redundant GNU utilities [PSARC/2009/660 FastTrack timeout 12/10/2009] To: PSARC-ext at sun.com After discussions with the OpenSolaris architect and lead, I withdraw this case. It was premature and will be revised as part of a bigger project to provide Solaris modernization using GNU utilities for /usr/bin. -JohnS ___ opensolaris-arc mailing list opensolaris-arc at opensolaris.org Evidence 2: Repeated deny of repository access. Repeated. The ksh team is merely needed to do bug fixing for ksh until the team can be replaced by Oracle in house resources. -- Forwarded message -- From: John Beck john.beck at oracle.com Date: 2010/4/30 Subject: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] 4th code review for next POSIX utility modernisation milestone, ksh93 bug fixes and /usr/bin/xgrep To: ? olga.kryzhanovska at gmail.com Cc: Korn Shell 93 integration/migration project discussion ksh93-integration-discuss at opensolaris.org, John Beck john.beck at oracle.com, Venkateshwara.Tv at sun.com, U.V.Ravindra at oracle.com All put backs related to the POSIX utility modernisation are on *hold* right now, even the security related bits of /bin/mktemp we fixed. What I said was that conversion of any *new* utilities to ksh93 is on hold. Bug fixes in ksh93, its libraries, and previously converted utilities are all welcome. -- John Sponsor my 100-mile bike ride fund raiser for the American Lung Association http://action.lungusa.org/goto/jbeck -- Forwarded message -- From: John Beck john.beck at oracle.com Date: Mon, May 3, 2010 at 10:30 PM Subject: Re: [ksh93-integration-discuss] 4th code review for next POSIX utility modernisation milestone, ksh93 bug fixes and /usr/bin/xgrep To: I. Szczesniak iszczesniak at gmail.com Cc: Korn Shell 93 integration/migration project discussion ksh93-integration-discuss at opensolaris.org, John Beck john.beck at oracle.com, olga.kryzhanovska at gmail.com, Venkateshwara.Tv at sun.com, U.V.Ravindra at oracle.com I Why are only *new* utilities on hold? I cannot say at this time. As soon as I have information that I am allowed to share, I will pass that information along. -- John Sponsor my 100-mile bike ride fund raiser for the American Lung Association http://action.lungusa.org/goto/jbeck Dave ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Someone please tell me I'm wrong
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Richard L. Hamilton rlha...@smart.net wrote: Can I have whatever you're having? =] Yeah, what he's saying sounds a lot like an article I read years ago: http://books.google.com/books?id=ASoDMBAJpg=PA60#v=onepageqf=false Maybe that article kept me from trying the stuff; I was perhaps curious enough, but the description was just too out of control for my comfort. What's the point with it? I just read the page where the author describes his first LSD-trip. But what he describes - is this not just the normal everyday reality around us? Mhh - I have this every day. Although his description of the colors is totally wrong. It's more blueish with yellow-purple. And the walls in this house have always been very soft and dynamic! But what does it have to do with LSD then? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] Oracle forces Opera.com out of Solaris (was: Opera drops browser support for Solaris)
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 6:35 AM, Dave Johnson dave.johnson.inqu...@googlemail.com wrote: Richard L. Hamilton rlha...@smart.net wrote: Since Opera is fast and leaks memory less than Firefox, this stinks. Has anyone ported Chromium (the open source of Chrome) to Solaris? That wouldn't do all the other stuff that Opera does, but it would make an impressive browser. It _would_ do one thing that Opera does, namely provide a rendering engine alternative to Firefox and Seamonkey. WebKit does pretty well - I have very few times when I have to use Firefox instead of Safari on my Mac. Yes, this sucks. But it was not Operas fault. It was Oracle which stepped over the line. The short story is: The Opera staff asked - as usual - for help to circumvent a Solaris bug. The (new) response, totally the opposite from Sun's helpful behavior of the past was: 1. Opera did not purchase support for Solaris 2. Without support Oracle will not answer technical questions or provide ANY help 3. Opera uses the SOLARIS trademark without permission 4. Opera will have to buy a full year of support for 502018 Euro to obtain questions to their answers 502018 Euro for WHAT? How crazy is Oracle? They provided one of the best browsers on the planet for Solaris and Oracle did what? Ask for money? IMO the manager responsible at Oracle should be fired. The Opera legal folks is looking into whether Oracle's emails can be published or not. Dave Ha!! How did somebody put it yesterday in another thread on this alias ...? --- ^^No comment from my side!^^ It is really shocking. Thanks for sharing this. Is your source the Opera management? %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] OpenSolaris build 134a has closed
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Albert Lee tr...@opensolaris.org wrote: Those of us feeling left in the dark might be pleased to know that build 134a, the first candidate for the next stable release of OpenSolaris, has been tagged in Oracle's release branch (in project jargon: snv_134a, the first respin of 134, closed earlier this week). A packaged build should be available for internal QA soon, but even if it passes, it will be while some time before the release can be published to the external repo. -Albert Thanks for this update!! This should resolve much of the fear and uncertainty :) %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] URGENT: Kernel lets 32bit process consume 4G memory?
On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Yves Huang yves.huang.proje...@googlemail.com pmap: cannot examine 5608: address space is changing and get a closer look, try stopping the process first: pstop 5608 and then running pmap or whatever to inspect it, and finally running prun 5608 to let it run again. Why is pmap not doing this? Normally pmap is working on running processes, without the necessity to pstop--pmap--prun. However, I didn't look into the pmap src. Maybe doing so on opensolaris.org would be worthwhile and at the same time answer your question. But I don't have the time right now. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Oracle charging for ODF plugin
On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 5:04 AM, Richard L. Hamilton rlha...@smart.net wrote: On 22/04/2010 11:11, Svein Skogen wrote: On 22.04.2010 02:27, Alan Hargreaves wrote: You miss the point. This is a discussion list about OpenSolaris. Not about a Microsoft Office Plugins. Not about Solaris. Not about Solaris patches. The only reason to post this stuff (even without comment) would be to sow FUD or dissention. Or to make people aware of a quite disturbing pattern. The only pattern I can see so far is that Oracle are starting to charge for some things that sufficient people are willing to pay for (which is something that Sun wasn't very good at), whilst keeping some other things available for free. Cheeri, Calum. Surely sufficient people exist that would pay for low-end support (sunsolve+patches only, or sunsolve+access to a repo with bug fixes, for OpenSolaris) that otherwise might simply do without, or go elsewhere. Staying profitable is important. But just because big customers can afford to drop big bucks, doesn't mean that small customers (home users, home businesses, students, etc) might not also be willing to spend what they reasonably can for a relatively modest (little direct consumption of man-hours) level of support. I just don't see the profit in not taking the little guys' money too; surely it adds up... Agreed! Ignoring medium sized to small customers had already been Sun's mistake. Wasn't Oracle going to fix Sun's errors? How? By repeating the old errors, but this time with 20times increased intensity?!? Examples: * behaviour and action (or lack of action) down to the community * lack of symmetric communication * only picking the Fortune500's as single isolated targetted market? The latter broke Sun its neck, when exactly that single market imploded over night, during the recession Ok Oracle, of course you still have 5 years until the next downturn comes... ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:06 AM, Paul Armstrong opensola...@otoh.org wrote: You're right. My memory was that he'd resigned and I only found news articles saying as much (and until I corrected it, the Wikipedia article also stated he'd resigned; unfortunately I can't fix the news articles that say he resigned rather than not being offered a position at Oracle). I had also missed the sub-thread here where he says as much. Paul Oh, ok. Those other sources need to be fixed, too. No prob. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
2010/4/21 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: You (Martin Bochnig) wrote: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Edward Martinez mindbende...@live.com wrote: it appears the so called writers,reporters from many well respected news sites are actually in a way wishing the demise of opensolaris. almost every article written on opensolaris nowadays are about how it's finished,doomed,etc. I think if this keeps up, it will actually discourage companies,etc from using this fine OS. I wished there was something that could be done to stop this. http://www.serverwatch.com/trends/article.php/3877526/The-Looming-Demise-of-OpenSolaris.htm As Oracle must know this, yet refused to do anything about it, it it obvious, that Oracle wants this demise!!! This harms its own SPARC-sales, which then must also be wanted! Ellison's database customers slip slidin' to x86 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/16/ioug_oracle_survey/ Well done, Ocacle! DOING NOTHING is well-done? Folks, one, hopefully last time: CALM DOWN! And: Get used to the NEW COMMUNICATION! Oracle is in NO POSITION to BEG. It's the world-leader in business software! That's a BIG and POWERFUL position to be in! So, WHY the hell should they ANNOUCE or PUBLISH anything, before the ink is dry? There simply is NO NEED to do so! It's all YOU, who's drawing CONCLUSIONS from NON-communication. So, you will see, if you've been right or wrong, once the ink dries... Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER | It's all very cool, but Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | I wonder, what it really D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487 | means. Anon. MIT Student Germany | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | in Byte's 4/96 Editorial Do you get it or don´t you Oracle´s DB is pretty much a monopoly. *There* they can do whatever they want, including not doing it, deferring it by 10 years or cooking honey. I shall calm down? Who is using uppercase letters here? Who is shouting?? OpenSolaris is an operating system platform. Even more so, as SPARC is a hardware platform that 99% depends on (Open)Solaris. This doesn´t even have much to do with OSS, community interaction, culture or anything. It has to do with how deciders decide. They wont invest hundreds of thousands of $$$, if not millions, into a platform they know nothing about. And I can understand that. Oracle is too naive for this little calculation? I doubt this. If you SHOUT IN CAPITAL LETTERS, that others shall ^calm down^ (this reminds me of an old joke, or was it self-irony??), Oracle is losing the UNIX market through their No-Statement__No-Roadmap__No-Assurance__No-Platform-Security policies. That is a fact. They made it happen. Not I invented that. Bit it is how it happens to be. %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Alexander Eremin ere...@milax.org wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 09:44 +0200, Matthias Pfützner wrote: You (Stephen Bunn) wrote: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 5:52 AM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Edward Martinez mindbende...@live.com wrote: it appears the so called writers,reporters from many well respected news sites are actually in a way wishing the demise of opensolaris. almost every article written on opensolaris nowadays are about how it's finished,doomed,etc. I think if this keeps up, it will actually discourage companies,etc from using this fine OS. I wished there was something that could be done to stop this. Martin, While you may be annoyed by the these people, the solutions is actually very simple. Its called a roadmap. It requires leadership and direction. You can't call on the demise of something if there is a clear direction forward. When there is zero communication from the owner of a project its pretty easy to call it dead. It may be FUD and speculation, but when the 'fix' is so damn trivial, the blame lies with Oracle. - Stephen Folks, also again: CALM DOWN! As I stated now MULTIPLE TIMES. Times are changing, GET USED TO IT! Oracle is a company (and you can proff it by yourself, if you LOOK BACK at Oracle's history of roadmaps and the likes), that ONLY PUBLISHES roadmaps, once the INKS ARE DRY! Do you KNOW anything about the feature set of Oracle's Database its upcoming version X, Y or Z? Is this non-knowledge an indication, that Oracle's DB is DEAD? So, folks, again, GET USED TO the new communication, and DO NEVER EVER draw WRONG conclusions! It's so easy! Matthias +1 Thanks Matthias -- ::alhazred Hello. What? You prefer the head_into_the_sand-approach??? If +1 in that manner, then the same as response: Do you get it or don´t you Oracle´s DB is pretty much a monopoly. *There* they can do whatever they want, including not doing it, deferring it by 10 years or cooking honey. I shall calm down? Who is using uppercase letters here? Who is shouting?? OpenSolaris is an operating system platform. Even more so, as SPARC is a hardware platform that 99% depends on (Open)Solaris. This doesn´t even have much to do with OSS, community interaction, culture or anything. It has to do with how deciders decide. They wont invest hundreds of thousands of $$$, if not millions, into a platform they know nothing about. And I can understand that. Oracle is too naive for this little calculation? I doubt this. If you SHOUT IN CAPITAL LETTERS, that others shall ^calm down^ (this reminds me of an old joke, or was it self-irony??), Oracle is losing the UNIX market through their No-Statement__No-Roadmap__No-Assurance__No-Platform-Security policies. That is a fact. They made it happen. Not I invented that. Bit it is how it happens to be. %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 3:15 PM, Mike DeMarco mikej...@yahoo.com wrote: So, folks, again, GET USED TO the new communication, and DO NEVER EVER draw WRONG conclusions! It's so easy! Normally I would agree, but I know for a fact that this lack of communication about a way forward with Sun products is driving businesses away. Every businesses that I talk to is now looking for a migration path away from Solaris due to, UNCERTAINTY in the direction. Very true, and I hate to see it happen. But it happens before our all´s eyeballs:-( :-( :-( Oracle had nine months to plan a strategy for Solaris and they did just that, SAY NOTHING TILL IT DIES. We have are RED HAT AND THAT IS THAT. It is completely disappointing. Not because they don´t ^hold our hand^ (as somebody put it last week). But simply because they are very effectively DESTROYING their own UNIX business. Afterwards their (lack of or not or yes) attitude towards the community won´t matter anymore, if Solaris turns into a rarely used niche product. So you can look at it with your rose color glasses but when you take them off and look at all the businesses that are looking for consultants to migrate from Solaris to AIX, Migrate from Solaris to Linux. You don't need to be a good poker player to read the tells that Oracle is presenting. Even the Sales reps are frustrated with Oracle as they can get no information from them either. They do not even have Non Disclosure Agreement information any longer. I think Solaris-enthusiasts on both sides (Oracle-intern and extern) are getting cold feet now. This also explains this hopeless UPPERCASE-shouting. But will it help to refuse, that reality exists? I have lived in the Sun world for the past 20 years and find Oracles treatment worse than what we would have gotten from IBM. Although I did not expect that just a few months ago, until now it really looks that bad, unfortunately, yes :( Although: IBM would have closed off the entire Open-foo projects and sites, mailing lists and so on on the first day under their reign. Simply because they hated Sun so much. %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 3:37 PM, Alexander Eremin ere...@milax.org wrote: On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 15:28 +0300, Martin Bochnig wrote: Hello. What? You prefer the head_into_the_sand-approach??? If +1 in that manner, then the same as response: Do you get it or don´t you Oracle´s DB is pretty much a monopoly. *There* they can do whatever they want, including not doing it, deferring it by 10 years or cooking honey. I shall calm down? Who is using uppercase letters here? Who is shouting?? OpenSolaris is an operating system platform. Even more so, as SPARC is a hardware platform that 99% depends on (Open)Solaris. This doesn´t even have much to do with OSS, community interaction, culture or anything. It has to do with how deciders decide. They wont invest hundreds of thousands of $$$, if not millions, into a platform they know nothing about. And I can understand that. Oracle is too naive for this little calculation? I doubt this. If you SHOUT IN CAPITAL LETTERS, that others shall ^calm down^ (this reminds me of an old joke, or was it self-irony??), Oracle is losing the UNIX market through their No-Statement__No-Roadmap__No-Assurance__No-Platform-Security policies. That is a fact. They made it happen. Not I invented that. Bit it is how it happens to be. I just think we should wait, too early to draw any conclusions -- ::alhazred People including myself were discussing this on OGB discuss last week, and the week before, and People did and do wait. But Oracle´s deciders (top-rank) behave like deaf-mutes. This is what is most frustrating of all. It appears, they accept no advice at all. %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Stefan Parvu stefanparv...@yahoo.com wrote: Fully agree that many variables changed since Oracle got Sun. As I posted on solarisx86 yahoo mailing list we need to wait a bit longer for all these things to be cleared but as well Oracle should commit and dont let space for confusion and mis-interpretations in a proper time frame window ;) Very simple to fix all this FUD flying around Fully agreed! - we should have OGB working closely with Oracle, same way the presentation speaks about working with Linux community slide. 28. Realities are the other way around: You mean Oracle should work with the OGB. Maybe not even closely, but at least AT ALL. As far as I am aware, until now Oracle did not even talk to the OGB. And this must be a joke. Or how else shall we call it??? But this will take some time. FQ4' 2018 would be a good quarter for a first announcement and (maybe) meeting. What do you folks think? %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 3:54 PM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Stefan Parvu stefanparv...@yahoo.com wrote: But this will take some time. FQ4' 2018 would be a good quarter for a first announcement and (maybe) meeting. What do you folks think? Ouch, I disclosed the date. Friends: Please keep this secret for yourselves. I bet you certainly understand, that Oracle has new marketing policies in regards to Roadmaps. Dear Oracle-managers: Please forgive me. I am so sorry. %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Bayard Bell buffer.g.overf...@googlemail.com wrote: Martin, This is a fundamental misstatement of Oracle's position as a software vendor prior to acquiring Sun. Oracle faces considerable competition from sources such as MS SQL Server and DB2. It has nothing like a monopoly over the RDBMS market. To the extent that it does have a position as a leader, it attracts a great deal of attention from competition and anti-trust authorities in both the US and EU, where you likely are aware that it had to make numerous representations that it would not use MySQL via the Sun acquisitions to engage in anti-competitive behaviour and that it was committed to supporting further development of MySQL under GPL. Their competitive position is not at all recognisable from your description. Moreover, Oracle is a company run by people with backgrounds in finance, a lot of concern for how they are viewed by the capital markets, and a lot of experience in acquiring companies (just look at the list on their Wikipedia entry). These folks aren't making leveraged buyouts in the private equity style of a few years ago, buying companies, saddling them with debt, and gutting their assets. There's no evidence to support the notion that they would spend 7.4bn USD on Sun just to dump assets that they had identified as crown jewels in selling the due diligence they did on the deal, particularly when this was a 47% premium on Sun's stock price at the time the offer was tendered and a bit more than IBM was said to table. Nor would it make any sense for them to do so after having their most senior executives show up to talk up the closing of the acquisition by naming SPARC and Solaris as growth areas for the acquired business that were expected to enjoy considerable expansions in headcount. If they said this after completing the deal but by that time fundamentally didn't understand what they acquired or misrepresented their plans for it, they would be pilloried by precisely those constituencies they most closely court in running in their company. They might even end up with a shareholder lawsuit for material misrepresentations about the merger or failure to conduct due diligence. Which is to say: it is deeply naive for you to talk about how deciders decide when jumping over very substantial financial and legal considerations and contradicting statements on public record. To the extent that Oracle is precisely the kind of calculating corporation you say they are, they are extremely unlikely to arrive at the conclusions or use the reasoning you suggest, unless you mean to say that they are either substantively incompetent and/or malfeasant. Whatever your concerns, introducing these kinds of accusatory remarks into the discussion is fundamentally counterproductive and leads people to worry about problems they don't have rather than those that they do. By any reasonable lights, the fundamental problem here isn't that Oracle corporate management harbour some nefarious agenda for their new acquisition, which they are carrying forward with utter duplicity, but that they fail to realise that both the community and more so segments of the customer base need further and firmer assurances than those already on record. Why not rather put on a wider view while we're waiting and show balanced, strategic rather than panicked thinking going into those exchanges? The rumours of Solaris's death have been repeatedly greatly exaggerated. I don't see why the current bout with OpenSolaris would be any different. If it does end tragically, the scene currently being dressed bears an unfortunate resemblance to the end of Romeo and Juliet, wherein the first of two suicides is prematurely occasioned by mistaking the artificially comatose beloved for dead. Cheers, Bayard I *hope* with all my belief, that you are just right. TIME will show. %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Edward Martinez mindbende...@live.com wrote: it appears the so called writers,reporters from many well respected news sites are actually in a way wishing the demise of opensolaris. almost every article written on opensolaris nowadays are about how it's finished,doomed,etc. I think if this keeps up, it will actually discourage companies,etc from using this fine OS. I wished there was something that could be done to stop this. http://www.serverwatch.com/trends/article.php/3877526/The-Looming-Demise-of-OpenSolaris.htm As Oracle must know this, yet refused to do anything about it, it it obvious, that Oracle wants this demise!!! This harms its own SPARC-sales, which then must also be wanted! Ellison's database customers slip slidin' to x86 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/16/ioug_oracle_survey/ Well done, Ocacle! ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] articles about opensolaris demise becoming annoying
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 5:49 AM, Stephen Bunn scb...@sbunn.org wrote: On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 5:52 AM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 11:10 PM, Edward Martinez mindbende...@live.com wrote: it appears the so called writers,reporters from many well respected news sites are actually in a way wishing the demise of opensolaris. almost every article written on opensolaris nowadays are about how it's finished,doomed,etc. I think if this keeps up, it will actually discourage companies,etc from using this fine OS. I wished there was something that could be done to stop this. Martin, While you may be annoyed by the these people, the solutions is actually very simple. Its called a roadmap. It requires leadership and direction. You can't call on the demise of something if there is a clear direction forward. When there is zero communication from the owner of a project its pretty easy to call it dead. It may be FUD and speculation, but when the 'fix' is so damn trivial, the blame lies with Oracle. - Stephen Yes: That was exactly my point! Was this unclear? I responded to Edward Martinez, exactly because I did not agree with him in that new context. Of course partially he is right. But it is Oracle(Management´s) very very own fault. The put gazoline into that fire! By just doing n o t h i n g. Didn´t I state this? Look, what I wrote here: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2010-April/007787.html ^^^Hi, very well said! I could not agree more here! I believe, that Oracle's continued lack of communication, combined with absence of a roadmap, plus non-shipping OS2010.03 (with no single public statement!!!), plus discontinuation of selling support contracts for everything past Sol10_10/09, plus cancelling the Free-ship LiveCD, plus plus plus all that is _extremely_ harmful to OpenSolaris. To OpenSolaris as a distro, as a code base, as a community, as a market, to everything except LinUX.^^^ %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 3:25 AM, Paul Armstrong opensola...@otoh.org wrote: Except that Simon resigned. It was his decision not Oracle's. Who says that? Who or what are your sources?? If I recall correctly, he told the opposite: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2010-April/055436.html Simon Phipps webmink at opensolaris.org Sun Apr 4 19:19:17 UTC 2010 It's been an interesting does he take sugar experience watching the conversation about me; I thought I'd interject with a link to a story that has correct information: http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/former-sun-open-source-officer-joins-osi-board-109 S. http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/former-sun-open-source-officer-joins-osi-board-109 April 01, 2010 Former Sun open source officer joins OSI board Simon Phipps is now exploring opportunities and engaging in activism for software freedom By Paul Krill | InfoWorld Share or Email | Print | Add a comment| 11 Recommendations Simon Phipps, who was chief open source officer at Sun Microsystems for the past five years, has become a member of the Open Source Initiative (OSI) board of directors. In an email response to questions Thursday, Phipps said he was not offered a position at Oracle, which closed its acquisition of Sun in January. Phipps worked nearly 10 years at the now-defunct company. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [website-discuss] Free OpenSolaris CD no longer offered
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Alan Coopersmith alan.coopersm...@oracle.com wrote: Matthias Pfützner wrote: You (Chris Pickett) wrote: Next on this channel: Source code access on a paid subscription level and you have to pay $$$ per incident if you want to contribute to ON HOW do you think, LEGALLY you can LIMIT access to Open Source? Start thinking, please! Besides if we really wanted to make money, there's not much revenue in charging for commits to ON at the current contribution rate - much better to charge per post to the mailing lists / web forums. Of course, we'd offer free posting credits to those who did contribute code, since such contributions require some discussion for review and such - so at this point, Roland Olga would have a decent balance of free posts built up for them to use, but certain other people would be deeply in debt to Oracle. Fortunately, they keep people like me far away from the business folks, so we don't try to sell insane ideas like this to them... 8-) -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System Sadly Sun does not WANT my contributions. So why shall I publish them? I only do so, if you guys intend to use my libpciaccess fixes plus SPARC gfx Xorg patches. Then alone and only. Therefore not. %martin bochnig ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [website-discuss] Free OpenSolaris CD no longer offered
Hi Alan, thanks for your response. Sorry that I took that personally, although I was not targeted. I just have a few problems here. Among other things - like every day - with a certain problem in the SPARC-Xorg ws. Also I see from the window, that today my car outside got the 3rd police ticket in 2 days. Also I type this via a small laptop keyboard, because all other kbds are connected to SB100, SB1500, SB2000, T2000 and SB2500 ... Let us please defer this. I respond later, some day. Too many things are (literally) in the air right now regards, %martin On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Alan Coopersmith alan.coopersm...@oracle.com wrote: Martin Bochnig wrote: For the benefit of everyone else who might want to use them? (Unless you believe they're less deserving than Sun, of course.) sure. But this is my position: If Sun doesnt want them (upstream into ON), Err: ON for libpciaccess. xwin for the rest. libpciaccess itself is in the X gate, though it calls libraries like libdevinfo in ON. I don't remember seeing any open requests from you to have code integrated into either gate, though I've been busy with many other things and may have missed or forgotten them. Ideally though, changes to things like libpciaccess would be submitted by you to the upstream projects, and we'd just pull them in automatically in the next resync, so we don't have to maintain a patch, especially not a patch we can't really test or maintain. But we discussed this long ago, 1000 times. Sun doesnt want. EOF Yes, as we've discussed many times before, the management of Sun's SPARC workstations graphics groups, back when Sun sold such things and thus still had a group, decided that they were not going to invest in a lot of work to support hardware that would not be generating any revenue, since it was no longer sold and would be past the end of its support life by the time customers started buying support contracts for the next enterprise release of Solaris. Now that those product lines and product teams are long gone, it will be even harder to convince new management to spend any resources there. I'm not doing anything to block you from being able to provide drivers, and the FOX project is still open to host code you wish to share with users or other distro builders, but we're not planning to pull any of those drivers into Oracle's releases. Unfortunately, the SPARC support for source juicer has been delayed, so you can't yet submit them via there for hosting in the pkg.opensolaris.org/contrib repo, but you can provide them directly to users in a variety of other ways. This was accepted from my side. But blaming users for writing more emails, than they contribute code ... ? At least in case of some individuals that is a bad joke! Shouldnt one be careful with too general allegations? I'm sorry you took offense to my joke - I really wasn't thinking about you at all, but the people who post many of the complaints, but have never written a line of code, have never helped another user on IRC or mailing lists, have never gone to their local user groups, have never filed a bug or helped track down an issue, have never participated in design or code review discussions, and have never contributed to the community in any other way. Even if not much of your code has been contributed back to the main OpenSolaris project gates, you've contributed in many other ways. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
Answer: TOO high. %mab On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:22 AM, Peter Jones bloosk...@netscape.net wrote: I am interested in very clear terms what the pros and cons of a FORK is from a technical point of view? Support for a successful operating system is very roughly composed of the following Technical development ISV development and partner input IHV development and partner input Marketing, branding,and strategy Support User community/customers Resources/working capital To differentiate with a distinctive business model is difficult but it must be clear to the customer/user.Sun/oracle offers a great advantage over other os's in that it provides access to active customers base.clearly to fork technically it would be weighed up against the other issues. The third way would be to be proactive...present a business case to oracle as a separate business enity.There are many exciting options -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] snv_137 bfu
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:16 AM, Dennis Clarke dcla...@blastwave.org wrote: sorry for the brutal email snip but it is 03:10AM here and I have not stopped in about 20 hours. I hate to say it .. but I love this stuff. Such a geek I know :-) Original Message Subject: Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] Call for Action From: Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de Date: Wed, April 14, 2010 03:03 To: Dennis Clarke dcla...@blastwave.org Cc: dam...@wojslaw.pl OpenSolaris OpenSolaris-discuss@OpenSolaris.org -- Still, a couple short small questions inline below... module /platform/i86pc/kernel//unix: text at [0xfe80, 0xfe91ffab] data at 0xfec0 module /kernel/genunix: text at [0xfe91ffb0, 0xfeb9dbaf] data at 0xfec55940 SunOS Release 5.11 Version snv_137 32-bit 32-bit? Which Hardware? bizarre hardware ! $ uname -a SunOS aequitas 5.11 snv_137 i86pc i386 i86pc $ kstat cpu_info module: cpu_info instance: 0 name: cpu_info0 class: misc brand VIA Esther processor 1200MHz cache_id 0 chip_id 0 clock_MHz 1200 clog_id 0 core_id 0 cpu_type i386 crtime 1124.745758441 current_clock_Hz 1199980612 current_cstate 0 family 6 fpu_type i387 compatible implementation x86 (CentaurHauls 6A9 family 6 model 10 step 9 clock 1200 MHz) model 10 ncore_per_chip 1 ncpu_per_chip 1 pg_id -1 pkg_core_id 0 snaptime 3104.935080881 socket_type Unknown state on-line state_begin 1271227007 stepping 9 supported_frequencies_Hz 1199980612 supported_max_cstates 0 vendor_id CentaurHauls I have a dual socket 12-core AMD Opteron 6172 on the way so I'll post that when I get my hot little hands on it. Should be sweet. r...@aequitas:/root# cat /etc/release Solaris Express Community Edition snv_130 X86 Still 130? Is that due to the BFU? No .. that is just a text file. I never touched it since the day I did the initial install of SXCE snv_130. Thanks again, Dennis! A pleasure. I have been somewhat frustrated and bothered by lack of action and then it hit me .. the lack of action is in my chair. So .. I also went after a few other things that I have been hacking away at .. like port GCC 4.4.3 : Dennis, ^porting^? How much porting work was required? You mean you took the Sun sfw src tarball and compiled it? bash-4.1$ /usr/local/gcc4/bin/gcc --version gcc (Blastwave.org Inc. Sun Apr 4 06:2453 GMT 2010) 4.4.3 Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. That was built with : bash-4.1$ /usr/local/bin/as --version GNU assembler (GNU Binutils) 2.20.1.20100303 Copyright 2009 Free Software Foundation, Inc. Also, thanks to Ken Mays I have bash 4.1 : bash-4.1$ /opt/csw/bin/bash --version GNU bash, version 4.1.5(4)-release (i386-pc-solaris2.8) People use different terminology as to what is ^porting^ The real stuff was done by Sun/Oracle. It is openly available here: http://dlc.sun.com/osol/sfw/downloads/ Still being updated and PUBLISHED. Paid by Oracle. I don´t know about you, but I myself don´t wanna miss these services. Remember: The can close the door, lock it and we stay outside. They would then keep all src for themselves and only release binaries, if they release their own updates at all in any form. -- %martin bochnig ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] snv_137 bfu
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Dennis Clarke dcla...@blastwave.org wrote: Dennis, ^porting^? How much porting work was required? You mean you took the Sun sfw src tarball and compiled it? GCC was by me, same as binutils, same as the grub bootloader for PowerPC that you mentioned earlier, bash was by Ken Mays, other bits were done by the Initworks team. Martin, you do this once a year. Pick a fight elsewhere Martin. Dennis Oh, sure. Of course. And if you really want, I can assemble more links, real quotes and *facts*. I do not fight. But I dislike a few things. Most of all hypocracy, intransparency (recall the way in which you managed Blastwave during my time [maybe it has changed since then, maybe not]?). Anyway, I made my point. And yes, one last thing, as you backfire in terms of Polaris. When Sun dropped out of the project, they published all src modifications. They dropped out, because even they could not finish the port in time. It was left in unusable state.`Tell me please, where are our nice community members? What has happened since then? Has anybody (capable of finishing a port of that sort) joined the project? Let´s have a look in the archives: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/powerpc-discuss/ The last usable entry came from Sun-genius Guy Shaw, once again. And what else happened on that front?? YOU my friend responded in an ugly polemic way. You did not even try to address the actual matters I have brought up. I know this from you. And I have better things to do. Maybe the other readers think about my statements, and maybe they do or do not agree. But my duty as OpenSolaris enthusiast, lover, contributor and community member has been done at this point (regarding this discussion thread). Good day! %martin bochnig ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Firefox 3.5.5 with SXCE can't load page
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Ian Collins i...@ianshome.com wrote: On 04/13/10 05:39 PM, Martin Bochnig wrote: www.namecheap.com just takes a while, until it loads. But the statements relating to www.zoll.de are still valid. For over 3 weeks I tried to load that site several times per day. Possible from world, but not from my: It's pretty snappy loading with Firefox or wget from this SunOS i7 5.11 snv_133 i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris system. ad...@i7:~$ time wget www.zoll.de ... Saving to: `index.html' [ = ] 21,808 14.2K/s in 1.5s 2010-04-13 19:57:30 (4.94 KB/s) - `index.html' saved [21808] real 0m2.958s -- Ian. Ian, thanks for running these tests and for sharing the results! It is really odd, I even rebooted my Laptop yesterday, and it still doesn´t manage to load www.zoll.de . Odd. But at least we can now exclude (after yours tests), that this problem affects all users of a certain build. Because for that reason I had reported it in the first place. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:30 PM, George Koutras koutra...@yahoo.com wrote: I start shivering to the idea that oracle might drop opensolaris or keep developing only the Openstorage required portions of it, and adding to that the sudden silence in indiana-discuss from @oracle.com @sun.com (last email on Friday 9/4), lets hope we will not be forced to move to bsd or linux world ( really outdated OSes compared to (open)solaris ). Please save the project. George Hello, if you look at other (technical) lists, then there is no Sunacle-silence, but real work. http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/pkg-discuss/2010-April/date.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/caiman-discuss/2010-April/date.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/on-ips-dev/2010-April/date.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zones-discuss/2010-April/date.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2010-April/date.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-code/2010-April/001101.html And these are just quick examples which I took together in 5 minutes ... So, PLEASE do me the favor and wait before you jump on that OpenSolarisMustBeSaved badwagon. Otherwise you end up in unintentionally harming it more (by replying to guesswork), than you serve it. Thanks. %mab From: Jennifer Pioch piochjenni...@googlemail.com To: Chad Welsh unixphr...@mac.com Cc: laptop-disc...@opensolaris.org; opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org; Indiana Discuss indiana-disc...@opensolaris.org Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 4:52:34 PM Subject: Re: [indiana-discuss] [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker? On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Chad Welsh unixphr...@mac.com wrote: Well we have heard from one of the OGB members about forking this project to save it from the hands of [b]HOracle[/b] the multi-headed, voracious, open source devouring monster. So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? A full fork can only be made if the internationalisation parts of libc are released as open source. Either we have to call the TOG (The Open Group) for source license, wait that Roland Mainz releases his version or find a suitable substitute. And then forking the hell outta here. Jenny -- Jennifer Pioch, Uni Frankfurt ___ indiana-discuss mailing list indiana-disc...@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/indiana-discuss ___ indiana-discuss mailing list indiana-disc...@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/indiana-discuss ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:19 PM, Alan Coopersmith alan.coopersm...@oracle.com wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: Well maybe this distro will communicate with its people besides the ones inside the company about the status of its latest release since you cut the balls off the release branch that should have continued. I assure you I have not touched anyones balls. Attacking the few of us still willing to communicate in public just further deteriorates the communication you're going to get - believe me, it's damn frustrating for us as well, and hard as we learn the difference between Sun Oracle policies on what information we're allowed to share before management makes official announcements, but we're going to try to not get ourselves fired for violating those. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System 100% +1! %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/14/10 10:56 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? What would your fork do differently than the main project, besides have almost no developers working on it, since all the Oracle-paid developers would still be working on the original OpenSolaris? It would get a release out. I'm still using b134 since 03/09/2010. Would you even have enough developers to keep up with the overhead of merging in all the changes Oracle developers are pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day? If their pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day, why hasn't anything been released. Why cannot I upgrade to b135, b136 or b137? Everyone is getting edgy. If Oracle won't publish a binary, Dennis is testing what it would take to do this effort himself. If what you really want is a new distro that's not in Oracle's control, what would differentiate your distro from the existing ones, and why would it make sense to start another instead of joining one of the existing groups to work on theirs? I don't think he wants to start a new distro, he's looking to publish b137. Paul Mmh, are you so sure? Maybe the label would be upgraded to reflect a ^new^ version. But I doubt many would be able to even remotely keep up with what Sun/Oracle is contributing in real diffs. %martin bochnig ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Alan Coopersmith alan.coopersm...@oracle.com wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? What would your fork do differently than the main project, besides have almost no developers working on it, since all the Oracle-paid developers would still be working on the original OpenSolaris? Would you even have enough developers to keep up with the overhead of merging in all the changes Oracle developers are pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day? I am definitely not known for being a Sun- YES_sayer (look into the 200[5-9] archives).. But Alan hits the nail on its very head. Yet another 100% +1! %martin If what you really want is a new distro that's not in Oracle's control, what would differentiate your distro from the existing ones, and why would it make sense to start another instead of joining one of the existing groups to work on theirs? -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@oracle.com Oracle Solaris Platform Engineering: X Window System ___ indiana-discuss mailing list indiana-disc...@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/indiana-discuss ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [indiana-discuss] [laptop-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
2010/4/14 Jennifer Pioch piochjenni...@googlemail.com: 2010/4/14 C. Bergström codest...@osunix.org: Jennifer Pioch wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:44 PM, Chad Welsh unixphr...@mac.com wrote: Well we have heard from one of the OGB members about forking this project to save it from the hands of [b]HOracle[/b] the multi-headed, voracious, open source devouring monster. So, when and who might be the first step/person to make this happen to protect what has been done so far? A full fork can only be made if the internationalisation parts of libc are released as open source. Either we have to call the TOG (The Open Group) for source license, wait that Roland Mainz releases his version or find a suitable substitute. And then forking the hell outta here. Umm.. #1 Roland is only handling the cli bits (Which with his help I replaced a long time ago in osunix) No, Roland has an own dropin replacement for libc_i18n.a using the FreeBSD and AST sources as base for his work. Jenny -- Jennifer Pioch, Uni Frankfurt I can build glibc now. So there is no worst case scenario, no matter what happenes. Problem: I get millions of segfaults, when I try to exec() programs linked against it. No release time now. Let´s wait for Roland´s return. How is he doing? %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/14/10 12:12 PM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Paul Gress wrote: If their pushing to the main OpenSolaris gates every day, why hasn't anything been released. Why cannot I upgrade to b135, b136 or b137? Every previous time we've had a release in progress, updates to /dev stopped while the release was underway - when 2009.06 was being finalized, builds 112 though 115 got skipped in /dev. But the difference was the community was informed. It appears that everything was frozen. I must say that I'm getting nervous. I've been waiting since around the later b120's for b135, as this marked the first release with NWAM phase 1. Now I see not even a whisper on the release front. How can it appear to be ^frozen^? Then maybe you are not subscribed to the right lists. I doubt anybody would continue to pay the developers, unless they do very well plan to release *something*. Maybe the delay has to do with polishing justice related aspects, licenses and so on. The price list, the type, duration and price tag of future support contracts, all that stuff. Everything is mere speculation. Except for the FACT, that the engineers are still doing their jobs, that is: PUBLICLY. How much more do you want? The distro? Everything that it takes to create one is openly available. USE IT. Or let´s just wait a bit. During my life experience I learned one thing for sure: Distrust and impatience DESTROY EVERYTHING. My analogy on this situation is like the drug pusher giving drugs to kids for free knowing when he stops giving it for free the kids will be addicted and will agree to pay for it. It appears we are now in the stop giving it stage and the community is now going through withdrawal symptoms. They need their Opensolaris. Sounds like you are experienced ;-) %martin bochnig Unfortunately, I don't know when new builds will be able to be published in the pkg repo again, but the sources continue to be made available if someone else wanted to build them. Just taking the existing sources and releasing builds to a community-run pkg repo is not a fork though. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:25 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/14/10 01:11 PM, Martin Bochnig wrote: How can it appear to be ^frozen^? Then maybe you are not subscribed to the right lists. Appears and actual are two different things. What I mean by appears is nothing has been published as in some form of a binary release for me to upgrade my b134 for a little over a month. Now I know Alan stated this happened previously, which I remember, but the community was informed, and the timing also wasn't during a transistion from Sun to Oracle. I doubt anybody would continue to pay the developers, unless they do very well plan to release *something*. I'm sure they plan to release something, they are continuing to develop. I'm afraid it may be in the form of a paid subscription service. And even, if! Would (I said w o u l d) that matter? People pay for bread, electricity, going to the toilet, for their own grave, even for Microsoft - warez. Why not for a real UNIX OS??? And once again, don´t care about the distro. There are a few good alternative distos, always have been. They are not only longer on the market, than www.opensolaris.com, but it is even the other way around: Indiana was mostly derived from BeleniX and SchilliX!!! So what? Build your own distro, or take one of the free alternatives: http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/downloads Everything must be open. Everything must be for free. What is the counter-contribution for this??? Is this a user-community like that of Wondows 7? Or are there 2 directions? If Oracle increasingly commercializes their distro, then the alternative distros will finally flurish again! %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:46 PM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/14/10 01:34 PM, Giovanni Tirloni wrote: Sounds like you are experienced ;-) Personal attacks rarely will help you make your point so please stop it. I didn't take is as a personal attack, I saw the smiley face, it was meant as a joke. Paul Hi, Paul understood me. It was just a joke I could not resist. I did understand the point he made. But I found the image he chose too funny, for not joking a bit. Always read between the lines, please. rgds, %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Fwd: [pkg-discuss] [REVIEW] backport-2009.06 fix for 11833
Hello, I decided to forward this message, as most people seem to ignore the coding related lists. Maybe the subject gives a first clue or indicator, what Oracle plans for the future: Maybe the name 2009.06 stays the current release for a few more weeks. Whatever. It does not matter, because this is only Oracle''s commercial distro. They do work. They give us all src updates. EXCELLENT!!! For all recent pkg-discuss messages have a look at http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/pkg-discuss/2010-April/date.html But please let''s stop the FUD based discussions. It can only harm the project. If theregister.com or the NYT quotes one of the recent postings, then this kills OpenSolaris before Oracle has any chance (or even INTENTION?) to do so. It is as if you chatted with a girl and suddenly she stops responding. Maybe she has another one? Maybe she forgot you??? Or maybe she is just ill! If you cannot wait and send her messages, like ^you this and that, go away bitch!^ - well - then she does go way! Then it is certain. Had one not written impatient ranting messages, maybe she would have had a chance to explain she was indeed ill. Or whatever other problem there might have come up. Believe me. So my Vote: Let us wait and be polite and helpful. The day to branch off does not come, before Oracle ever dares to lay-off a substantial number of Sun-engineers (who in turn would be willing to join the brach-off project during their spare time). _everything_ else is counterproductive. %martin -- Forwarded message -- From: Danek Duvall danek.duv...@oracle.com Date: Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 8:54 PM Subject: Re: [pkg-discuss] [REVIEW] backport-2009.06 fix for 11833 To: Shawn Walker shawn.wal...@oracle.com Cc: pkg-disc...@opensolaris.org Shawn Walker wrote: Fixing both is fine, but I don't see how the changes to __filter_install_matches() are involved. Oh, that's easy. The old code was wrong. You actually fixed several bugs in how it tried to eliminate multiple matches when you changed it. Since ambiguous name pairs could result in multiple matches, it seemed relevant to fix. Did you not realise you fixed something else too? :) I vaguely remember fixing something in there, but I don't at all remember the details of it. The actual change there, particularly with bits of your catalog v1 change mixed in is pretty subtle. My changeset primarily rewrote that routine to use sets instead of dicts and, IMHO, made it a bit easier to use. But aside from the change to take obsolete packages into account, the only substantive change I made was in the Next stanza (starting line 2283 at the time), to always add the package stem to mnames. That same change isn't in your version of the change because the catalog v1 change hadn't happened to make it necessary. Danek ___ pkg-discuss mailing list pkg-disc...@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/pkg-discuss ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
2010/4/14 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: They need their Opensolaris. THEIR? Who owns that distribution? And: if it's their's, they should be building it themselfes... Really, it seems, you do know what a community is, and how open source works... Matthias You interchanged To:-field and CC:-field. Not I wrote this quote ... Please try to be more careful with the mail-handling. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
2010/4/14 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: I can't manage that from my Nokia E71, and, yes, I quoted from a different email... Sorry, it's not been directed at you, Martin! Matthias Ok, no problem. I can imagine it can be hairy, when sending reply-all from a phone ... Thanks for clarifying. %martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org An: matth...@pfuetzner.de Cc: pgr...@optonline.net, opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Gesendet: 14.4.'10, 20:30 2010/4/14 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: They need their Opensolaris. THEIR? Who owns that distribution? And: if it's their's, they should be building it themselfes... Really, it seems, you do know what a community is, and how open source works... Matthias You interchanged To:-field and CC:-field. Not I wrote this quote ... Please try to be more careful with the mail-handling. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [website-discuss] Free OpenSolaris CD no longer offered
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Chris Pickett pkch...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Derek Cicero derek.cic...@oracle.com wrote: FYI - Oracle is no longer offering a free OpenSolaris CD shipping program at this time. As a result, we have removed all links and icons from the opensolaris.org site. If you would like to download OpenSolaris, please visit the Downloads page at http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/downloads. I saw that one coming. Next on this channel: Source code access on a paid subscription level and you have to pay $$$ per incident if you want to contribute to ON ;-( Chris Chris, which Linuex distro offers such a program, where they ship CD's all over the planet, FOR free [for YOU]? You have a link? If the original message would have been download section is now restricted access to buyers only, then I would be more on your logic. %martin -- ^---^ (@)v(@) Chris Pickett | / IT consultant ===m==m=== pkch...@users.sourceforge.net ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [website-discuss] Free OpenSolaris CD no longer offered
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Andras Barna andras.ba...@gmail.com wrote: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ Oh, thanks for the link. Maybe Oracle could learn from them. But I'm afraid, they could rather learn from Oracle! Because if they ship stuff around for free, work for free and want to benefit more people, and not just their own pockets, then they are doomed to end, where Sun has. Bitter-cold world. On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Chris Pickett pkch...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Derek Cicero derek.cic...@oracle.com wrote: FYI - Oracle is no longer offering a free OpenSolaris CD shipping program at this time. As a result, we have removed all links and icons from the opensolaris.org site. If you would like to download OpenSolaris, please visit the Downloads page at http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/downloads. I saw that one coming. Next on this channel: Source code access on a paid subscription level and you have to pay $$$ per incident if you want to contribute to ON ;-( Chris Chris, which Linuex distro offers such a program, where they ship CD's all over the planet, FOR free [for YOU]? You have a link? If the original message would have been download section is now restricted access to buyers only, then I would be more on your logic. %martin -- ^---^ (@)v(@) Chris Pickett | / IT consultant ===m==m=== pkch...@users.sourceforge.net ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ website-discuss mailing list website-disc...@opensolaris.org -- http://blog.sartek.net | http://twitter.com/sartek ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [website-discuss] Free OpenSolaris CD no longer offered
2010/4/14 ольга крыжановская olga.kryzhanov...@gmail.com:
Martin, this world becomes only bitter cold if people let it down. If
the community, Oracle included, sticks together and cooperates then
the world may become a warmer, more friendly place to all of us.
Hi Olga, no.
The only thing that helped me was moving eastwards to Ukraine.
And in a few years I probably need to go to Siberia!!
For your question about 'shipping disks for free' and a note to Derek/Valerie:
Our family get the latest Suse DVD (Tshirts and other gimmicks
included) by express mail each time a new one is released. It comes
from a Suse program to reward those who have made significant
contributions to the Suse distribution.
Aha, cool.
Such a model makes great sense to me!
But it should be contribution-based.
Not until now, that they must ship hundreds of thousands (or whatever
the number was, probably lower) CD's around.
Sun always did that, also with their other programs. Shipping to
Europe must have been $5 each time. This is a lot of money-burning, as
they did it with every unknown small maybe_but_probably_not customer.
They also sent me 5 T-shirts (Java or Solaris 10, not even OpenSolaris).
Not based on any contributions.
How can this have been sustainable?
priveti,
%martin
Derek/Valerie: Is it feasible to set up a similar program for
Opensolaris to reward those who significantly contributed to
Opensolaris?
Olga
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:54 PM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote:
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:48 PM, Andras Barna andras.ba...@gmail.com
wrote:
https://shipit.ubuntu.com/
Oh, thanks for the link.
Maybe Oracle could learn from them. But I'm afraid, they could rather
learn from Oracle!
Because if they ship stuff around for free, work for free and want to
benefit more people, and not just their own pockets, then they are
doomed to end, where Sun has.
Bitter-cold world.
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote:
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Chris Pickett
pkch...@users.sourceforge.net wrote:
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Derek Cicero derek.cic...@oracle.com
wrote:
FYI - Oracle is no longer offering a free OpenSolaris CD shipping
program at
this time. As a result, we have removed all links and icons from the
opensolaris.org site. If you would like to download OpenSolaris, please
visit the Downloads page at
http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/downloads.
I saw that one coming.
Next on this channel: Source code access on a paid subscription level
and you have to pay $$$ per incident if you want to contribute to ON
;-(
Chris
Chris, which Linuex distro offers such a program, where they ship CD's
all over the planet, FOR free [for YOU]?
You have a link?
If the original message would have been download section is now
restricted access to buyers only, then I would be more on your logic.
%martin
--
^---^
(@)v(@) Chris Pickett
| / IT consultant
===m==m=== pkch...@users.sourceforge.net
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, _ _ ,
{ \/`o;- Olga Kryzhanovska -;o`\/ }
.'-/`-/ olga.kryzhanov...@gmail.com \-`\-'.
`'-..-| / Solaris/BSD//C/C++ programmer \ |-..-'`
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Re: [osol-discuss] [website-discuss] Free OpenSolaris CD no longer offered
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:09 PM, Calum Benson calum.ben...@oracle.com wrote: On 14/04/2010 20:48, Andras Barna wrote: https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ And, ironically: http://www.labnol.org/software/download/order-free-linux-dvd-kits-oracle-shipping-worldwide/3454/ Cheeri, Calum. Ohh:((( Thos daxxx xxs!!! Now you really convinced me :-( :-( %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [website-discuss] Free OpenSolaris CD no longer offered
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:39 PM, Albert Lee tr...@opensolaris.org wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 22:41:19 +0300, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 10:26 PM, Chris Pickett pkch...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Derek Cicero derek.cic...@oracle.com wrote: FYI - Oracle is no longer offering a free OpenSolaris CD shipping program at this time. As a result, we have removed all links and icons from the opensolaris.org site. If you would like to download OpenSolaris, please visit the Downloads page at http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Main/downloads. I saw that one coming. Next on this channel: Source code access on a paid subscription level and you have to pay $$$ per incident if you want to contribute to ON ;-( Chris Chris, which Linuex distro offers such a program, where they ship CD's all over the planet, FOR free [for YOU]? You have a link? To be fair, http://www.oracle.com/webapps/dialogue/dlgpage.jsp?p_ext=Yp_dlg_id=5659298src=5634329Act=44 and https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ ... If the original message would have been download section is now restricted access to buyers only, then I would be more on your logic. I agree with that, but I think both of you are overreacting. ;) Yes, it outright *sucks* for adoption and awareness that the free CD program has ended, but as it was through Sun's online stores it may just be a side effect of the reorganisation of those stores that has affected the purchasing other Sun products. For reference, the not-free Solaris 10, Studio, and VirtualBox media kits are currently shipping from globalspecials.sun.com which looks like it's a remnant that's yet to be properly Oracle-ised. Given Oracle does have free media kits for some its other software, the program may re-emerge under whatever division is responsible for the other media kits. -Albert Albert, this is very insightful and interesting background info. We all may have been too hard towards Oracle. But why do they not get it, that it is their own fault due to a _total_ lack of community interaction? Why is it so difficult for them to understand such basic things? A community is not a commercial audience! Maybe they should understand, that it would be better to put on softer gloves ... ? Just a HotSpot News Update at some special location. Just a few list mails. A conf call with the OGB. All those things cost nothing, except a single tiny thing: R E S P E C T Thanks, %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [ogb-discuss] Fwd: [pkg-discuss] [REVIEW] backport-2009.06 fix for 11833
On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 11:59 PM, Albert Lee tr...@opensolaris.org wrote: On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:13:32 +0300, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: Hello, I decided to forward this message, as most people seem to ignore the coding related lists. Maybe the subject gives a first clue or indicator, what Oracle plans for the future: Maybe the name 2009.06 stays the current release for a few more weeks. Whatever. It does not matter, because this is only Oracle''s commercial distro. They do work. They give us all src updates. EXCELLENT!!! [...] Martin, was cross-posting this to ogb-discuss necessary? I hardly think anyone involved with the OGB needs to be told about the situation. -Albert Really? Did you see previous topics? %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] So when are we gonna fork this sucker?
On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 7:06 AM, Ian Collins i...@ianshome.com wrote: On 04/15/10 04:19 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: Chad Welsh wrote: Well maybe this distro will communicate with its people besides the ones inside the company about the status of its latest release since you cut the balls off the release branch that should have continued. I assure you I have not touched anyones balls. Attacking the few of us still willing to communicate in public just further deteriorates the communication you're going to get - believe me, it's damn frustrating for us as well, and hard as we learn the difference between Sun Oracle policies on what information we're allowed to share before management makes official announcements, but we're going to try to not get ourselves fired for violating those. Alan, Thanks for continuing to introduce sanity into all this nonsense. Long my you ( and Calum) keep communicating! -- Ian. plus 1! %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Firefox 3.5.5 with SXCE can't load page
I can confirm, that there must be a bug in recent builds. It is not DNS related and the client (in your case browser) does not matter. Have the same timeouts with wget. Try to load www.zoll.de !! It works on all my Solaris SPARC boxes, but not at all on x86 OS2010.02_preview snv_131. This is an existing issue. Somebody with some time: Pls. investigate. %mab On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/12/10 07:05 PM, bsd wrote: SXCE build 130 which is the last build produced has all that I want as far as software like Bluefish. I've tried to compile Bluefish on OpenSolaris b134 but received errors, so I thought of SXCE and installed. Bluefish is included in the Opensolaris b134 dev releases. You just have to download it after the full install. Located in: Applications Internet [image: screenshot] Paul There is one problem though and that is I cannot load www.namecheap.com and it eventually times out. The problem is that I can get to other sites without any problems. Can anyone suggest what may be the problem that Firefox 3.5.5 and/or SXCE b130 cannot load one site? Is there a way to upgrade Firefox in SXCE since it is no longer maintained to see if that will fix the problem? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Screenshot-2.png___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Firefox 3.5.5 with SXCE can't load page
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:32 AM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: I can confirm, that there must be a bug in recent builds. It is not DNS related and the client (in your case browser) does not matter. Have the same timeouts with wget. Try to load www.zoll.de !! It works on all my Solaris SPARC boxes, but not at all on x86 OS2010.02_preview snv_131. This is an existing issue. Somebody with some time: Pls. investigate. Maybe related to MTU or packet size. %mab On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 6:14 AM, Paul Gress pgr...@optonline.net wrote: On 04/12/10 07:05 PM, bsd wrote: SXCE build 130 which is the last build produced has all that I want as far as software like Bluefish. I've tried to compile Bluefish on OpenSolaris b134 but received errors, so I thought of SXCE and installed. Bluefish is included in the Opensolaris b134 dev releases. You just have to download it after the full install. Located in: Applications Internet [image: screenshot] Paul There is one problem though and that is I cannot load www.namecheap.com and it eventually times out. The problem is that I can get to other sites without any problems. Can anyone suggest what may be the problem that Firefox 3.5.5 and/or SXCE b130 cannot load one site? Is there a way to upgrade Firefox in SXCE since it is no longer maintained to see if that will fix the problem? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org Screenshot-2.png___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Firefox 3.5.5 with SXCE can't load page
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 AM, bsd mascotgr...@yahoo.com wrote: SXCE build 130 which is the last build produced has all that I want as far as software like Bluefish. I've tried to compile Bluefish on OpenSolaris b134 but received errors, so I thought of SXCE and installed. There is one problem though and that is I cannot load www.namecheap.com and it eventually times out. The problem is that I can get to other sites without any problems. You do *not* have this bug. This site www.namecheap.com does load on my problematic installation, where www.zoll.de would *never* load. www.namecheap.com just takes a while, until it loads. But the statements relating to www.zoll.de are still valid. For over 3 weeks I tried to load that site several times per day. Possible from world, but not from my: mar...@opensolaris:~$ cat /etc/release OpenSolaris Development snv_131 X86 Copyright 2010 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Use is subject to license terms. Assembled 14 January 2010 mar...@opensolaris:~$ uname -a SunOS opensolaris 5.11 snv_131 i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris mar...@opensolaris:~$ isainfo -k amd64 mar...@opensolaris:~$ mar...@opensolaris:~$ wget www.zoll.de --2010-04-13 07:36:41-- http://www.zoll.de/ Resolving www.zoll.de... 62.159.31.42 Connecting to www.zoll.de|62.159.31.42|:80... ^C mar...@opensolaris:~$ %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Firefox 3.5.5 with SXCE can't load page
On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 11:46 AM, Ian Collins i...@ianshome.com wrote: On 04/13/10 05:39 PM, Martin Bochnig wrote: www.namecheap.com just takes a while, until it loads. But the statements relating to www.zoll.de are still valid. For over 3 weeks I tried to load that site several times per day. Possible from world, but not from my: It's pretty snappy loading with Firefox or wget from this SunOS i7 5.11 snv_133 i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris system. ad...@i7:~$ time wget www.zoll.de ... Saving to: `index.html' [ = ] 21,808 14.2K/s in 1.5s 2010-04-13 19:57:30 (4.94 KB/s) - `index.html' saved [21808] real 0m2.958s Hello. If not related to the snv level, then maybe it is related to the NIC driver. All systems are behind the same router and firewall and NAT. No other system has issues. On this Laptop however, it does not even help if I load WinXP in a vbox vm. rge0: flags=1000843UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv4 mtu 1500 index 3 inet 192.168.111.64 netmask ff00 broadcast 192.168.111.255 lo0: flags=2002000849UP,LOOPBACK,RUNNING,MULTICAST,IPv6,VIRTUAL mtu 8252 index 1 inet6 ::1/128 mar...@opensolaris:~$ wget www.zoll.de --2010-04-13 18:56:27-- http://www.zoll.de/ Resolving www.zoll.de... 62.159.31.42 Connecting to www.zoll.de|62.159.31.42|:80... ^C (after a few minutes!) I report back, as soon as I find out more. %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Gosling resigns from Oracle
It is sad. A shock!!! Good night! :( mab On Sun, Apr 11, 2010 at 2:35 AM, Chris Pickett pkch...@users.sourceforge.net wrote: On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 11:18 PM, Michael Lee mle...@gmail.com wrote: Gosling resigns from Oracle. http://www.taranfx.com/father-of-java-resigns. I would have thought that Oracle would have tried to keep him on board the good yacht Oracle. That's not surprising. Gosling was for research and fair access, Oracle wants monetize its investment in JAVA and Gosling only as marketing figurehead. That conflict was brewing since a month and Gosling... lost. rumorRumor is that Gosling was escorted out of his office and set into a cab to leave the campus immediately and not come back ever again./rumor TheRegister may post the photos next Monday. Let's hope that the same won't happen for Opensolaris, although the chances are slim that this does not happen to lots of our lead developers. Chris -- ^---^ (@)v(@) Chris Pickett | / IT consultant ===m==m=== pkch...@users.sourceforge.net ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
James: For 3 pretty ROI-worthless aquisitions alone (Cobalt, STK and MySQL) Sun's top-management spent 10 Billion USD (ten thousand millions!!!). Every time the behaved like kids: At hopelessly overheated markets - instead of selling something - they bought! Obviously the paid way overpriced amounts for much too little counter-valueadd. If you closely watched the NYSE charts over the years you should know, that these 10 Billions are more $$$, than Sun ever managed to generate as a profit in all these years summed up. To me that appears to be more related to Sun's liquidity problems. And those were indeed severe management faults at the HIGHEST levels. Other errors certainly include a pricing policy, where 5 years old processors still stood on the price list at their launch prices (such as something like 7995 USD for a 600MHz UltraSPARC III non-Cu module for the Blade 2000). And were the option price for a simple stupid generic IDE-DVD-ROM drive for the Blade 150 was 295 EUR on sun.de (at least from 2003 till 2006). You are blaming the wrong man! I made this mistake myself for far too long. I agree with Joerg's statements below: Sun was not open enough. For this reason substantial parts of real community-support were sent to dust. While those parts of the community lost their trust ... (2007 ...Ian-Diana ... etc.) You forgot the trouble? Reminder: http://www.michaeldolan.com/1102 Thursday, February 14th, 2008 “I told you so” in order? Roy Fielding resigns from OpenSolaris Some choice quotes: Sun didn’t just make vague statements to me about OpenSolaris; they made promises about it being an open development project. That’s the only way they could get someone like me to provide free labor for their benefit. Given Sun’s recent track record on breaking promises, another one doesn’t surprise me at all. THAT was lost share holder value. %martin On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 12:38 PM, James Mansion ja...@mansionfamily.plus.com wrote: Simon Phipps wrote: Ths thing I find interesting in the article, and indeed in many of your statements, is that you show absolutely no sign of self-doubt about whether open sourcing everything you could actually destroyed shareholder value and drove Sun down the toilet. That's because it did not. See the penultimate paragraph of http://webmink.com/2010/03/08/sundown/ I don't understand. I'm looking at 'we've achieved some amazing things ... despite the success of Sun's open source business, it still wasn't enough to rescue Sun'. That looks self-congratulatory to me, not doubting. I'm not sure how the open sourcing was successful for Sun shareholders. Definitely successful for Red Hat shareholders though. Where's the bit that says 'maybe embracing open source was a huge mistake and we screwed up'? Its one thing to embrace open source by consuming it, but embracing it by taking a huge IP investment and chucking over the wall? (Well, mostly ...) The whole strategy seems to have been predicated on 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend', presumably based on a massive chip-on-shoulder brought about by NT eating your market in CAD and financial workstations. Hopefully Larry's management team will see that there IS some market for a not-Windows alternative for PC-clone workstations and that the consistency, stability of interfaces and compatibility that defined Solaris are a differentiator that can make it more attractive to OEMs than Linux variants. But I'm not hopeful. James ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
I agree with that summary of real events and facts. Hence I decided to post everything inline: http://www.michaeldolan.com/1102 Thursday, February 14th, 2008 “I told you so” in order? Roy Fielding resigns from OpenSolaris http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2008-February/004488.html In my opinion, Roy came up short in fully describing the issue, but he did a great job focusing on the thread at hand regarding OpenSolaris and trademark. The fact is, Sun is not an open source community or development player. Sun wants all the benefits of saying it’s all about open and freedom, yet, Sun does something completely different. Nearly 3 years into OpenSolaris, the development is still behind the firewall inside Sun. Nearly 3 years into OpenSolaris, open source community developers would have to get Sun engineers to agree to accept code. Nearly 3 years into OpenSolaris, developers have to contribute copyright co-ownership to the corporation, Sun, in order to contribute to OpenSolaris. Nearly 3 years into OpenSolaris, there are still essential parts of the Solaris OS that are still not opened under a free license (they call it the OpenSolaris Binary License… aka proprietary). I could go on and on… but let me refer to Roy’s view below. Will Ian be next to resign? I can’t believe he really believes this is the right execution of what sounded like an “open” strategy 2 years ago… I knew better, but many fell for the bedtime story that sounded sweet. Some will still argue that Sun’s great, open, etc., but they’re brainwashed; anyone who really knows what’s going on should not be fooled at this point in the game. “Open”Solaris is an OS that is created by 1 company, with no outside input or control and has a code repo on opensolaris.org… besides that, what has it done to contribute or help any community of users? Some choice quotes: Sun didn’t just make vague statements to me about OpenSolaris; they made promises about it being an open development project. That’s the only way they could get someone like me to provide free labor for their benefit. Given Sun’s recent track record on breaking promises, another one doesn’t surprise me at all. … Most of the stuff in that letter about Sun’s responsibilities in regard to “International Trademark Law” is nothing more than snow being tossed in the eyes of technical folks who don’t have access to their own lawyers. … In fact, if it weren’t for the extremely pig-headed way in which Indiana was thrust on the community as Ian’s private domain, it could have easily been a unifying path for all of the distros. It could have given them a gate within OpenSolaris in which to collaborate, instead of doing all of their work in separate communities outside OpenSolaris. Indiana is just another private marketing team within Sun that is making private decisions about “OpenSolaris” that aren’t even in line with the internal processes of Solaris Engineering, let alone the published governance model of the OGB. … Sun agreed that “OpenSolaris” would be governed by the community and yet has refused, in every step along the way, to cede any real control over the software produced or the way it is produced, and continues to make private decisions every day that are later promoted as decisions for this thing we call OpenSolaris. Rather than be honest about it and restructure the community to correspond to this MySolaris style of over-the-wall development, Sun prefers to lie to the external community members while ignoring their input. … This well is poisoned; the company has consumed its own future and any pretense that the projects will ever govern themselves (as opposed to being governed by whatever pointy-haired boss is hiding behind the scenes) is now a joke. … There’s nothing particularly wrong with that choice — it is a perfectly valid open source model for corporations that don’t need active community participation. IMO, the resulting code tends to suck a lot more than community-driven projects, but it is still open source. In any case, I am done with it. I hereby resign my status as a Member of the OpenSolaris Community, effective immediately. 2010/4/5 Мартин Бохниг (Martin Bochnig) mar...@martux.org: James: For 3 pretty ROI-worthless aquisitions alone (Cobalt, STK and MySQL) Sun's top-management spent 10 Billion USD (ten thousand millions!!!). Every time the behaved like kids: At hopelessly overheated markets - instead of selling something - they bought! Obviously the paid way overpriced amounts for much too little counter-valueadd. If you closely watched the NYSE charts over the years you should know, that these 10 Billions are more $$$, than Sun ever managed to generate as a profit in all these years summed up. To me that appears to be more related to Sun's liquidity problems. And those were indeed severe management faults at the HIGHEST levels. Other errors certainly include a pricing
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
James, here you see that the opposite of your claims appears to be more true : http://www.ratliff.net/blog/2008/02/14/not-with-a-bang-but-a-whimper/ Roy Fielding[1] finally quit the OpenSolaris community today, see his resignation letter[2]. The kettle finally boiled over and the realization come to many (but not all) that Sun is publishing their Solaris code for marketing purposes, rather than creating an independent, community-led, open source project with the ability to make real decisions. It seemed so promising at first: “[T]hey made promises about it being an open development project. … Sun gave up its right to make arbitrary decisions regarding the phrase ‘OpenSolaris’ as part of its public agreement with the community in the form of the Charter. That was a self-imposed restriction in exchange for the benefits of community-driven development, freely made, and cannot be changed except in accordance with the charter itself (for example, by amending or dissolving the charter).” (excerpt from Roy Fielding’s resignation letter) But it was a sham: “The charter has therefore been violated. … Sun agreed that ‘OpenSolaris’ would be governed by the community and yet has refused, in every step along the way, to cede any real control over the software produced or the way it is produced, and continues to make private decisions every day that are later promoted as decisions for this thing we call OpenSolaris.” (excerpt from Roy Fielding’s resignation letter 2010/4/5 Мартин Бохниг (Martin Bochnig) mar...@martux.org: I agree with that summary of real events and facts. Hence I decided to post everything inline: http://www.michaeldolan.com/1102 Thursday, February 14th, 2008 “I told you so” in order? Roy Fielding resigns from OpenSolaris http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/ogb-discuss/2008-February/004488.html In my opinion, Roy came up short in fully describing the issue, but he did a great job focusing on the thread at hand regarding OpenSolaris and trademark. The fact is, Sun is not an open source community or development player. Sun wants all the benefits of saying it’s all about open and freedom, yet, Sun does something completely different. Nearly 3 years into OpenSolaris, the development is still behind the firewall inside Sun. Nearly 3 years into OpenSolaris, open source community developers would have to get Sun engineers to agree to accept code. Nearly 3 years into OpenSolaris, developers have to contribute copyright co-ownership to the corporation, Sun, in order to contribute to OpenSolaris. Nearly 3 years into OpenSolaris, there are still essential parts of the Solaris OS that are still not opened under a free license (they call it the OpenSolaris Binary License… aka proprietary). I could go on and on… but let me refer to Roy’s view below. Will Ian be next to resign? I can’t believe he really believes this is the right execution of what sounded like an “open” strategy 2 years ago… I knew better, but many fell for the bedtime story that sounded sweet. Some will still argue that Sun’s great, open, etc., but they’re brainwashed; anyone who really knows what’s going on should not be fooled at this point in the game. “Open”Solaris is an OS that is created by 1 company, with no outside input or control and has a code repo on opensolaris.org… besides that, what has it done to contribute or help any community of users? Some choice quotes: Sun didn’t just make vague statements to me about OpenSolaris; they made promises about it being an open development project. That’s the only way they could get someone like me to provide free labor for their benefit. Given Sun’s recent track record on breaking promises, another one doesn’t surprise me at all. … Most of the stuff in that letter about Sun’s responsibilities in regard to “International Trademark Law” is nothing more than snow being tossed in the eyes of technical folks who don’t have access to their own lawyers. … In fact, if it weren’t for the extremely pig-headed way in which Indiana was thrust on the community as Ian’s private domain, it could have easily been a unifying path for all of the distros. It could have given them a gate within OpenSolaris in which to collaborate, instead of doing all of their work in separate communities outside OpenSolaris. Indiana is just another private marketing team within Sun that is making private decisions about “OpenSolaris” that aren’t even in line with the internal processes of Solaris Engineering, let alone the published governance model of the OGB. … Sun agreed that “OpenSolaris” would be governed by the community and yet has refused, in every step along the way, to cede any real control over the software produced or the way it is produced, and continues to make private decisions every day that are later promoted as decisions for this thing we call OpenSolaris. Rather than be honest about it and restructure
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
2010/4/5 Мартин Бохниг (Martin Bochnig) mar...@martux.org: James: For 3 pretty ROI-worthless aquisitions alone (Cobalt, STK and MySQL) Sun's top-management spent 10 Billion USD (ten thousand millions!!!). Every time the behaved like kids: At hopelessly overheated markets - instead of selling something - they bought! Obviously the paid way overpriced amounts for much too little counter-valueadd. If you closely watched the NYSE charts over the years you should know, that these 10 Billions are more $$$, than Sun ever managed to generate as a profit in all these years summed up. To me that appears to be more related to Sun's liquidity problems. And those were indeed severe management faults at the HIGHEST levels. During a recession, a company should cheaply acquire what it can get. During overheated times, one should sell a few sub-enterprises for lots of cash. Sun did the exact opposite: In both overheated times (2000 and 2005till2007) and in both recessions (after 911 and now). Effectively they spent their gold reserves for worthless ROI. Which brought them into a shortage of cash which could no longer simply be compensated through mass-layoffs. At the end they were forced to give themselves away for a few pennies! p.s. Another aspect of their strategic mistakes was, that they focused too much on a single market, while neglecting the rest. When that single market suddenly collapsed (US market, and there only the TOP 500 enterprises and banks), they had a problem. Also, they produced wonderful Ad´s but did not distribute them sufficiently. And they didnt use enough distribution channels for their hardware. When I wanted to spen unbelievable EUR 1900,- for a pretty minimalistic Sun Blade 150 with 128MB memory (!) in 2003, it took them 2 or 3 weeks until I had it. And I could only order it via FAX. Compare this to how Dell does it! %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
2010/4/5 James Mansion ja...@mansionfamily.plus.com: Мартин Бохниг (Martin Bochnig) wrote: Solaris code for marketing purposes, rather than creating an independent, community-led, open source project with the ability to make real decisions. I think you're missing the point. What is the benefit to Sun shareholders to have Solaris so open, really? Simple question - where does the money come from? No, you are missing the point. The idea was to provide a free and open AllInOne A to Z software platform stack, that would be able to compete with LinUX and to win the OS battle. This would have increased hardware sales and sales of service/maintenance/support contracts. There the cash would have come from. See, how IBM makes a living? %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
2010/4/5 Мартин Бохниг (Martin Bochnig) mar...@martux.org: 2010/4/5 Мартин Бохниг (Martin Bochnig) mar...@martux.org: James: For 3 pretty ROI-worthless aquisitions alone (Cobalt, STK and MySQL) Sun's top-management spent 10 Billion USD (ten thousand millions!!!). Every time the behaved like kids: At hopelessly overheated markets - instead of selling something - they bought! Obviously the paid way overpriced amounts for much too little counter-valueadd. If you closely watched the NYSE charts over the years you should know, that these 10 Billions are more $$$, than Sun ever managed to generate as a profit in all these years summed up. To me that appears to be more related to Sun's liquidity problems. And those were indeed severe management faults at the HIGHEST levels. During a recession, a company should cheaply acquire what it can get. During overheated times, one should sell a few sub-enterprises for lots of cash. Sun did the exact opposite: In both overheated times (2000 and 2005till2007) and in both recessions (after 911 and now). Effectively they spent their gold reserves for worthless ROI. Which brought them into a shortage of cash which could no longer simply be compensated through mass-layoffs. At the end they were forced to give themselves away for a few pennies! p.s. Another aspect of their strategic mistakes was, that they focused too much on a single market, while neglecting the rest. When that single market suddenly collapsed (US market, and there only the TOP 500 enterprises and banks), they had a problem. Also, they produced wonderful Ad´s but did not distribute them sufficiently. And they didnt use enough distribution channels for their hardware. When I wanted to spent unbelievable EUR 1900,- for a pretty minimalistic Sun Blade 150 with 128MB memory (!) in 2003, it took them 2 or 3 weeks until I had it. And I could only order it via FAX. Compare this to how Dell does it! Now I recall the rest. This price was pre-VAT!!! Like all the prices on their site until circa 2007 or 2008! Therefore add 16 % German VAT to these EUR 1900 for a humble Blade 150! (Besides: Meanwhile German VAT is at 19%). %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 12:12 PM, Volker A. Brandt v...@bb-c.de wrote: Hello HeCSa! I (we) sent emails to the assigned Oracle employee to deal with the communities, but didn't receive an answer in more than a month, or maybe more time. Have you tried emailing Jimm Grisanzio, or someone from the OGB? This sounds more like a communications problem. Regards -- VOlker Now you are getting too Oracle-friendly. While it is indeed nonsense to bash Oracle based on rumors and FUD, this time you are going too far to the opposite end (not every of their PR-statements might turn out to be the truth). Did you notice? Their first move after the takeover was to lay-off Sun open-source officer Simon Phipps. Can you explain this with your logics from above? How would you? Another thing which makes me really wonder is all the silence that (does not) go(es) out from the newly elected OGB. And they don´t need to be afraid of losing their jobs, because almost all of them either never had a Sun position, or quit Sun long ago. Why this silence from *them*?? Back to the OpenSolaris 2010.03 delay: If really just a technical stopper is the reason for the delay, then it could be a thing as simple as converting all vendor and license strings from Sun to Oracle. On caiman this was webref´ed last week. Plus getting a fancy Oracle backdrop in red, plus a new Grub- and bootup- screen etc, plus the opensolaris.com website ... etc. The question is IF. And WHY all the silence and secrecy?? %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Simon Phipps webm...@opensolaris.org wrote: It's been an interesting does he take sugar experience watching the conversation about me; I thought I'd interject with a link to a story that has correct information: http://www.infoworld.com/d/adventures-in-it/former-sun-open-source-officer-joins-osi-board-109 As for Oracle: Oracle are famous for their clearly-defined strategy of not making statements about unreleased products. I anticipate that most advance information will come in the form of actions rather than words. S. Hi Simon, I would like to apologize, that I did not recognize back then (2007), how much more I should have trusted you. Thank you for being a good one and for your achievements! I regret, that I did not see it before. GOOD LUCK to you on all scales!!! %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Any news about 2010.3?
2010/4/4 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: Martin, sorry, yes, you're right, I didn't want to discredit you... There's been too much FUD here lately, thererfore I might be over-reacting! Sorry again! Matthias Matthias, ok. Thanks for publicly correcting your previous statement. I can understand your general agression towards FUD-fed threads like that. And nowadays I did not initiate it. Like you I rather protested against it: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/opensolaris-discuss/2010-April/055347.html All that I did say earlier today was, that Oracle is not an innocent holy Saint Sunacle. And while I disagree with the OracleHasKilledOpenSolaris-FUD (which it clearly was), that I find it at the same time important not to praise or defend Oracle more than they deserve at this point (of current knowledge) in IT-history. Only time can show, if they decide to back their (few) pro-OpenSolaris words with good action. Then we know more. %martin You (?? ?? (Martin Bochnig)) wrote: 2010/4/4 Matthias Pfützner matth...@pfuetzner.de: You (?? ?? (Martin Bochnig)) wrote: Did you notice? Their first move after the takeover was to lay-off Sun open-source officer Simon Phipps. Can you explain this with your logics from above? How would you? He left on his own: http://twitter.com/webmink/status/10861922797 http://webmink.com/2010/03/08/sundown/ As he left on March 8th, and the change to Oracle in the UK was on March 1st, it's absolutely clear, that he decided on his own to leave Oracle. He had a job at Oracle, otherwhise he would have left BEFORE March 1st! Sorry for this (single) point of having been misinformed. I got my Info from a (new) OGB member and - given his trustworthyness - believed him without further verifying (in contrast to my usual behaviour). So, do not TURN truth to FUD, like you try to do for days, if not weeks lately! [snip] Matthias -- Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER | Erst als die Faschisten Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | die Comics zensierten, D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487 | wurde mir klar, wie übel Germany | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | diese Leute waren. Fellini DITTO! Interesting. I ??? You must be confusing me with somebody else. I hardly posted, and if I did, then it was not related to this subject. You have no URL?? You corrected me in one aspect. That´s good. But be so friendly and do your homework before writing something like this: So, do not TURN truth to FUD, like you try to do for days, if not weeks lately! [snip] Matthias You cannot mean me. Trink ´ne Tasse Kaffee und denk drueber nach. -- Matthias Pfützner | Tel.: +49 700 PFUETZNER | Lieber morgens zu müde vom Lichtenbergstr.73 | mailto:matth...@pfuetzner.de | Sex, als abends zu müde D-64289 Darmstadt | AIM: pfuetz, ICQ: 300967487 | für Sex! Germany | http://www.pfuetzner.de/matthias/ | Unbekannte Quelle ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Save OpenSolaris (according to Katonda)
On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 5:54 PM, Charles Hedrick hedr...@rutgers.edu wrote: I understand that this is largely FUD. But can someone confirm that there is a copy of all of the open-source code someplace not under Oracle control? At this point the only precaution I'd take is to make sure that there is. Yes. I have it all on hdd. Maybe others have it, too. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Save OpenSolaris (according to Katonda)
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 9:34 PM, Volker A. Brandt v...@bb-c.de wrote: Matthew: http://www.katonda.com/blog/944/call-to-save-opensolaris-fork-it The gentleman who created the content referenced at this URL starts out by saying that OpenSolaris [...] has seemingly been sentenced to death by its patron Sun Microsystems, after being taken over by Oracle. Two paragraphs down, he states that Oracle has more or less closed down OpenSolaris development. As we all know, from false assumptions, every statement can be proven or disproven. Hence, it is unneccessary to deal with the conclusions the author draws from his false claims. What do you think? Is this a good idea? No. Regards -- VOlker Hi Volker, total +1. Development has closed??? What??? That´s complete nonsense. Maybe the person should subscribe to a more non-fud oriented list (Suggestion: a technical list). On pkg, caiman, osol-code, xwin, zfs, you name it - everywhere the is work being continued. To substantial parts still in THE OPEN. If he branches off, then the branch might be ^free from Oracle^ and rotten. As long as Oracle doesn´t threated us to re-license OS/Net to a closed license, it is exactly as free like that WITHOUT A polemic branch-off ^actionism^ . Because until now the biggest sponsor and contributor of all times has been Sun. How do them intend to write as much code, as Sun/Oracle did and still does? There were a few glitches, agreed. But otherwise it is like it is. %martin bochnig MartUX Inc. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Save OpenSolaris (according to Katonda)
On Thu, Apr 1, 2010 at 9:47 PM, Matthew Nawrocki matthew.nawro...@gmail.com wrote: Once again, the FUD machine caused someone to become crippled. Well these kinds of fellas are a dime a dozen anymore. Matt ??? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Save OpenSolaris (according to Katonda)
2010/4/1 Matthew Nawrocki matthew.nawro...@gmail.com: What I mean't by this statement is that person can't see the forest through the trees and is blinded by the FUD. Make sense? Matt Ok, now _yes_ . %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Save OpenSolaris (according to Katonda)
Forgive me all my spelling errors. Message written from Laptop. Need a break ... %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Cannot boot after power failure...
On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 10:08 AM, casper@sun.com wrote: On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 12:34:15PM +0100, casper@sun.com wrote: Thanks for that explanation of why there is no failsafe boot option for OpenSolaris. I had wond ere d about that, since I'd seen it in Solaris Nevada/Express. Ok, except that the CD boot is much slower. Why is that a problem? Why should one worry about the boot time for a rescue procedure? Most users of OpenSolaris are unlikely to ever need to employ such a procedure. Really? The boot-archive isn't always updated when it is needed and I had this happen often until I nulled the boot-archive script. Can you explain a bit more about what you mean by nulled the boot-archive script? In some systems I removed the script and changed it to exit 0 but mostly I change the startup script to :true in the SMF configuration. I've been bitten several times, years ago, and since then I always null the boot-archive start script. Casper Yes. The entire boot-archive script converts a (usually) non-fatal situation into its counterpart. If its designer feel it is necessary, then thy should change it into a soft ¨Dear user ... BTW, FYI ...¨ warning. But a bug fix was mentioned earlier in this thread. I didn´t open it yet. Maybe it sufficiently deals with everything. I must look ... %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Cannot boot after power failure...
On Sun, Mar 21, 2010 at 3:14 AM, Ron Mexico ronmex...@mailinator.com wrote: update-archive -R /mnt/foo I assume you mean: bootadm update-archive -R /mnt/foo ? I did that, and it said missing /boot/grub on root /mnt/rpool Bingo! And that is the reason why I had written: (Im not sure right now, if you now get a complaint, that no /boot is there / then you need to mount the right zfs by first changing the mountpoint with zfs set mountpoint=/xyz.) And at least at this point Sun or Alex should accept, that using the LiveCD for this is WAY not as straigthforward, as they claim. Only experienced users can manage such a situation. And the web-help is of little use to thos, who would actually need it in that situation. Furthermore I rather doubt, the official docs deal with this specific situation in a way sufficiently practice oriented and detailed, to handle the cannot mount, directory not empty problem. Because I doubt many will know that they need to mount some zfs's of the pool manually, and that they can only do so, after *temporarily* having altered the zfs mountpoint. But all this is mandatory to successfully fix the situation. Except for Caspar's workarount of clearing the boot_archive-check SMF service during hdd-booted Single-user. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Cannot boot after power failure...
On Sat, Mar 20, 2010 at 6:16 AM, Ron Mexico ronmex...@mailinator.com wrote: I have a storage server running on snv_129. When trying to reboot my server it was stuck in the perpetual loop of the happy face boot screen. After trying to boot in single-user mode, I got this error message: WARNING: The following lines in / differ from the boot archive: changed /etc/devices/devid_cache changed /etc/name_to_major changed /etc/path_to_inst The recommended action is to reboot to the failsafe archive to correct the above inconsistency. To accomplish this, on a GRUB-based platform, reboot and select the Solaris Failsafe option from the boot menu. On an OBP-based platform, reboot then type boot -F failsafe. Then follow the prompts to update your boot archive. Alternative, to continue booting at your own risk, you may clear the service by running: svcadm clear system/boot-archive. Mar 19 20:50:01 svc.startd[9]: svc:/system/boot-archive:default: Method /lib/svc/method/boot-archive failed with exit status 95. Mar 19 20:50:01 svc.startd[9]: system/boot-archive:default failed fatal: transitioned to maintenance (see 'sacs -xv' for details) Requesting System Maintenance Mode (See /lib/svc/share/README for more information.) Console login services cannot run. Problem is, 2009.06 doesn't have a failsafe boot option. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Mucho thanks! Hello, they want, that you boot from LiveCD. This is known and was discussed 1000 times, but they see no reason to add the old failsafe boot option *now*. They say, that things have changed since SXCE and bla foo, that something more sophisticated will come, ...some day, maybe. They say, that the LiveCD is the modern failsafe boot option, only much much better. Ok, except that the CD boot is much slower. Plus the user needs to be familiar with zfs commands and bootadm update-archive [-vn] [-R altroot [-p platform]] This makes it a much worse solution, than the old failsafe option. The LiveCD boot is always good and excellent to have, with all its much more advanced technical capabilities. But IMO it does not replace the failsafe bootarchive. Ok, here your steps: #0) boot off LiveCD (single user mode is enough, there you can directly login as root user, rather than just as jack and its root role / pw: root:opensolaris and jack:jack). #1) zpool import (this shows you importable pools) then zpool import -f -R /mnt/foo rpool(replace rpool with your pool name) #2) update-archive -R /mnt/foo rpool (Im not sure right now, if you now get a complaint, that no /boot is there / then you need to mount the right zfs by first changing the mountpoint with zfs set mountpoint=/xyz.) %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Cannot boot after power failure...
2010/3/20 Мартин Бохниг (Martin Bochnig) mar...@martux.org: #2) update-archive -R /mnt/foo rpool Errm, of course this cmd line without rpool ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Problem with tun driver
On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Antoine Benkemoun antoine.benkem...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for your help. Recompiling the driver from source fixed the problem. Antoine Hello, next time you come into such trouble it should be enough, if you: # update_drv -v tun (then hopefully it attaches again!) Rgds., %martin On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Giovanni Tirloni gtirl...@sysdroid.com wrote: On Fri, Mar 5, 2010 at 6:32 AM, Antoine Benkemoun antoine.benkem...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I am new to OpenSolaris coming from a Linux background. I have really been enjoying OpenSolaris so far. I've almost always been able to find my way out of different problems. This time I have got a seemingly harder problem. I have an OpenVPN installation that worked perfectly fine just yesterday. This night my OpenSolaris Xen VM crashed and now OpenVPN doesn't work anymore. I fixed a few bugs that were due to relative/absolute paths for certificates but I still have a bug concerning the tun module. When I start OpenVPN, I get the following message : Fri Mar 5 10:24:53 2010 Can't open /dev/tun: No such file or directory (errno=2) I have checked that the tun driver is loaded : ~# add_drv tun Driver (tun) is already installed. It shows up in /dev : ~# stat /dev/tun File: `/dev/tun' - `../devices/pseudo/cl...@0:tun' The only problem is that the destination of the symbolic link does not exist. I have tried many things such as openvpn --mktun which is more or less supposed to work on Linux but doesn't on OSol. I installed the tun package via the Blastwave utility pkgutil. Does anyone have any pointers for checking/correctly loading the the tun module ? Have you tried unloading and loading the tun driver again ? Were there any changes to the environment that a recompilation of the driver would help ? This is how it looks here (b133, just compiled tun/tap driver): # ls -l /dev/tun lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 29 2010-03-05 07:50 /dev/tun - ../devices/pseudo/cl...@0:tun # ls -l /devices/pseudo/clo...@0:tun crw--- 1 root sys 11, 292 2010-03-05 07:51 /devices/pseudo/cl...@0:tun # dmesg [...] Mar 5 07:50:52 osol-dev tun: [ID 654686 kern.notice] Universal TUN/TAP device driver ver 1.1 03/05/2010 (C) 1999-2000 Maxim Krasnyansky Mar 5 07:50:52 osol-dev pseudo: [ID 129642 kern.info] pseudo-device: tun0 Mar 5 07:50:52 osol-dev genunix: [ID 936769 kern.info] tun0 is /pseudo/t...@0 Mar 5 07:50:52 osol-dev tap: [ID 654686 kern.notice] Universal TUN/TAP device driver ver 1.1 03/05/2010 (C) 1999-2000 Maxim Krasnyansky Mar 5 07:50:52 osol-dev pseudo: [ID 129642 kern.info] pseudo-device: tap0 Mar 5 07:50:52 osol-dev genunix: [ID 936769 kern.info] tap0 is /pseudo/t...@0 -- Giovanni Tirloni sysdroid.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Fwd: Nomination of Moinak Ghosh for OGB 10/11 election (!!!OpenSolaris distro from SUN owes it’s origin to BeleniX.!!!)
I dislike and hate injustice.
Therefore I bring this into memory once again:
-- Forwarded message --
From: Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org
Date: Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 9:06 AM
Subject: Nomination of Moinak Ghosh for OGB 10/11 election
(!!!OpenSolaris distro from SUN owes it’s origin to BeleniX.!!!)
To: OpenSolaris Governing Board Discussions
ogb-disc...@opensolaris.org, Moinak Ghosh moin...@belenix.org
It is my pleasure to nominate Moinak Ghosh for the 2010/11 OGB.
Why? Because of his outstanding distro building expertise {#0} {#1}.
{#0}
http://moinakg.wordpress.com/
http://moinakg.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/kde-4-3-1-available-on-belenix/
http://www.belenix.org/content/LiveCD-Architecture-Overview
http://www.belenix.org/content/LiveCD-Features-Timeline
{#1}
http://blogs.sun.com/dminer/entry/constructing_an_opensolaris_distro
Where it reads (and I can confirm this) :
In addition few people may know that the OpenSolaris distro from SUN
owes it’s origin to BeleniX. Every technology that I developed for
BeleniX during the 2.5 yrs prior to OpenSolaris-Distro coming out was
used. In fact the first Beta release was based on BeleniX 0.4.1 with
IPS and Caiman installer put in and KDE replaced by Gnome – I was part
of the core team working on that! See LiveCD Architecture Overview
Diagram and LiveCD Features Timeline. Sadly there is not even a shred
of information or documentation that alludes to this except for a sole
reference in the OpenSolaris Bible.
(and of course BeleniX at first took much from Joerg Schilling's
SchilliX in 2005)
In that sense: Go folks, and elect those who know how to create!
(and who at the same time really do deserve the most honors)
--
%martin bochnig
martux.org
___
opensolaris-discuss mailing list
opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] very long wait in the end of pkg install
No hope for IPS. It kills OpenSolaris´s future. This is not an attack. Just a sad finding. Yes, I bring this to the table again. But let´s face it, what is better? A convenient slimer or an inconvenient person who reports the truth at least once per year? A mistake is only then a mistake, if it doesn´t get corrected. IPS is such a case. From day 1 it was a bad implementation. The paradigm is good. The python code looks nice and sophisticated. But it is un-usable in the current form. Plus the status console output is cryptic and meaningless (while also not being verbose). Conary - on the other hand - had been available under a free license plus usable 3 years before IPS was started. It is a sad fact. Am I a lazy person who always complains without ever offering alternatives? Judge yourself, but together with Brian Gupta (who significantly sponsored me financially) we ported conary to OpenSolaris. Src and test-bins were there. Nobody ever wanted it. So do what you want. But be aware that it kills your distro and associated market share. Yesterday I wanted to install openoffice. After 2 hours I killed it, because it already ^^proceeded^^ till about 80MB of 2800MB. I needed to edit my word document yesterday, not today. During these first 2 hours the box was completely out of mem and out of CPU cycles. Totally inresponsive (3 to 10 seconds per click). After I killed pkg, I could continue to do something, just as normal. This box is a 2GHz Pentium Dual Core Notebook manufactured in December 2008. Two Intel cores running at 2GHz each. Plus the RAM is 4GB. How many engineers have been occupied by doing this IPS? How many more have been busy to adopt their projects from SVR4-pkgadd to IPS? I bet a certain person will now show up and tell me, that it is complete dieren etc. And that it was a wanted community project (in 2007/08 he always claimed, it was just simply a trial). And that it is of course unfinished alpha software and that - finally after its completion - all bottlenecks will have been removed. And that OpenSolaris´ special requirements made it impossible to base the work on a functioning system (such as conary). And that it is bad practice to complain about the work of others. And that this is the essence of DEVELopment and PROGRESS, to throw all other things away and to start from 0. Employing 100 engineers for a few years and throwing away money that nobody had (while other fronts, such as SPARC-gfx) had to die out due to a ^lack of money and resources^ . And it is not alone Python´s fault (interpreted vs. compiled), because conary is also in Python. Ok, if you want to jump, feel free to freely fall. I tried to help and got burned for it (in 2007). -- Your Choice -- And worse for you: Customers also choose. %martin bochnig Old page was: http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/Project+conary-eval (most things seem to have been deleted after website migration) On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:17 PM, Andrew Stormont andyjstorm...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi, Performance was also pretty terrible on my old Core 2 Quad with 4GB RAM. That was one of the main reasons I switched to Nexenta (http://nexenta.org). Andy On 27 February 2010 10:52, Bruno Damour br...@ruomad.net wrote: well the whole install took 2 hours for 1 pkg !! it seems that disk read/write here is the bottleneck (?). iostat -D 2 shows my hd busy at around 100% iosnoop reports a lot of access by pkg : UID PID D BLOCK SIZE COMM PATHNAME [...] 0 1666 R 35943541 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 35689921 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 4440824 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 0 1666 R 35921758 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 4622752 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 0 1666 R 35914394 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 4619760 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 0 1666 R 35927313 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 4628296 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 65535 626 R 4616648 4096 Xorg none 0 1666 R 4628016 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 4639352 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 35668129 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 4419792 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 0 1666 R 35745803 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 0 1666 R 35827415 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 4560008 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 0 1666 R 30094080 65536 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 0 1666 R 30321619 4096 pkg none 0 1666 R 4325904 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512 idmapd none 0 1666 R 35841146 6144 pkg none 0 1666 R 35908772 4096 pkg none 1 465 R 14771611 512
Re: [osol-discuss] very long wait in the end of pkg install
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:48 PM, casper@sun.com wrote: well the whole install took 2 hours for 1 pkg !! it seems that disk read/write here is the bottleneck (?). iostat -D 2 shows my hd busy at around 100% iosnoop reports a lot of access by pkg : How much memory? It is possible that you're paging to death. Hi Casper, I am subscribed to pkg and caiman. Maybe his system is swapping to death. But why??? If you compare memory- and CPU- usage of IPS to those values of *every* other system on the market, it is unbelievable at the first look. ^Horrific^ - to find the right term. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] very long wait in the end of pkg install
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 1:19 PM, Bruno Damour br...@ruomad.net wrote: Ok I have ONLY 1G mem, not much nowadays but anyway. This laptop has been tested on different systems, first of all it runs WinXP (at work) but I have also run gentoo (from stage 1 !, all self-compiled) and I never felt it unresponsive or slow. even running emerge -uD world was OK compared to what it feels withy pkg. At least you had some output to watch ;-) and I never had to stop browsing the web because I was updating my system. My main grief is not the time it takes, but that you cannot do anything during this time. Even shell windows go grey. Bruno Good description. It is completely impossible to work with or on anything, while pkg is doing his day-long trip. Not even running two big builds would bring the a given box in such a state (such as compiling OS/Net and X11 at once). That´s the main point. Just keeping it running (like wget) would not be that bad. -- %mab ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] very long wait in the end of pkg install
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Jürgen Keil jrgn.k...@googlemail.com wrote: I ran pkg install with truss, in the hope of discovering why it takes so long to complete, especially AFTER it has reported that every thing is installed. You are running a fresh install of b133, correct? Has pkg been always that slow? I suspect that pkg has been reasonably fast for the first few packages that you installed, but has become slower and slower the more packages have been installed? Hello Mr. Keil: If you suspect a standard bin/pkg to run ^reasonably fast ^, then all your systems must be Quad core i7´s with 8GB ram. Is this the new minimum requirement for 2010.03? If you are a regular follower of pkg-discuss and caiman-discuss, then you should know the memory consumption peak values and associated problems. What you meant in this context was probably ^RELAtively fast ^, but that is a difference. The rela- then only refers to other IPS pkg- testruns themselves, rather than to any truly ^reasonably fast ^ packaging system. It seems you only run OpenSolaris on state-of-the-art hardware. If you ever tried it on a Pentium III with 1024MB ram recently, then you would have chose a different wording in the first place. Let alone trying to use it on UltraSPARC II/IIi/IIe/IIe+ workstations such as on the Blade 150. Which other packaging systems did you compare pkg to? Did you compare it to e.g. Yum, Apt, Smart or Conary? Or more directly, did you try BeleniX or Nexenta? I recommend you Package management meta-tools: survey and state of the art http://www.mancoosi.org/edos/manager/ and http://moinakg.wordpress.com/2008/11/22/the-belenix-package-manager/ But most of all: To simply try a few alternative packaging frameworks. You should enjoy the little difference :) IPS is an anti-investment. Like a black hole. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] very long wait in the end of pkg install
On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Shawn Walker swal...@opensolaris.org wrote: On 02/27/10 05:54 AM, casper@sun.com wrote: On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 12:48 PM,casper@sun.com wrote: well the whole install took 2 hours for 1 pkg !! it seems that disk read/write here is the bottleneck (?). iostat -D 2 shows my hd busy at around 100% iosnoop reports a lot of access by pkg : How much memory? =A0It is possible that you're paging to death. Hi Casper, I am subscribed to pkg and caiman. Maybe his system is swapping to death. But why??? If you compare memory- and CPU- usage of IPS to those values of *every* other system on the market, it is unbelievable at the first look. ^Horrific^ - to find the right term. Yes, that is true. I'm not sure why it needs so much memory; it is possible that using python contributes to the memory use. Both perl and python of wonderful primitives but you pay for how the primitives are implemented: they don't give you a choice. A long time ago, we re-wrote the contents file database in a (SQL) database; that was a bad idea for several reasons: you have again no choice on how the data is stored and this again added to huge memory pressure and apart from other issues such as not properly sorting the contents file, it made installing much slower and not faster. The contents file was then around 15-20MB, the database used 512MB or more. As a gentle reminder, there's a reason why the attributes section of man pkg.1 indicates that it is In Development... Cheers, -- Shawn Walker Forgive me the *lol* I knew that this comes (I even publicly predicted it). But then you should not ship this in a commercially supported product. Just a thought. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] OpenSolaris.org says Invalid account state: Inactive. ?
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 6:45 PM, Dennis Clarke dcla...@blastwave.org wrote: I am wondering if there was a large change in the SSO/signon pages at OS.org given that my account seems to be marked inactive. I think I have had an account since the first day of the pilot. Hi Dennis, I had the same problem 2 days ago. Please ask on website-discuss. In my case Jim helped me at a speed of 300km/h. I put him and the relevant list into the To: field. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 9:51 AM, Uros Nedic ur...@live.com wrote: Does Google have a focus? They are going pretty well. If you are on the market you have to diversify your product portfolio to be able to minimize risk, and hope that one technology will bring revenues to cover all possible looses on other sides. This is how life goes. When you did not found your successful project and you experience recession then you will have to do exactly what SUN execs did. This could happen to ORACLE, too. Only difference is that ORACLE had more luck than SUN. You cannot eliminate uncertainty that future brings. Otherwise, we could think about it that we invented time-machine. Uros - Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor. -NASA in 1965 Hi Uros, although it generally _sounds_ good what you wrote, the emphasis is on _generally_ and sounds. How closely and for how long have you paid attention to Sun related biz news? http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=java How many ¨Sun NC¨ shows have you visited in person or on the web? Since before 2000 or after? Secondly I think that google has pretty much of (internal) focus, while Sun didn´t. I agree with what Erik writes. Sun tried to move forward into all directions at once, 360 degrees at the same time. If I have more time I can post specific examples and links, from 1999 onwards. And btw: I do not believe too much in ¨coincidents¨ or ¨luck¨. %martin Date: Mon, 25 Jan 2010 22:41:42 -0800 From: erik.trim...@sun.com CC: opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org; indiana-disc...@opensolaris.org Subject: Re: [osol-discuss] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/ Edward Ned Harvey wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/ I always knew (after 2006 at least) that JS is a God-damn *TRAITOR*. ¨Upon change in control, every employee needs to emotionally resign from Sun. Go home, light a candle, and let go of the expectations and assumptions that defined Sun as a workplace. Honor and remember them, but let them go.¨ I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. He's right. Those people from Sun who are moving on to Oracle ... they are getting new bosses, and a new corporate culture, and moving in a new direction. This is not comfortable, but it's better than getting terminated if the company collapsed. Oracle didn't buy Sun to gain their idealism or culture. They wanted to acquire talent and technology. Those employees who are transitioning ... must accept the fact that it is a transition. Things will not remain the same. They must embrace change, and welcome their new ... Robotic overlords. ;-) Seriously though, except the overlords part. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org From my standpoint as a current Sun employee, my biggest problem with Sun has been it's lack of focus. We've spent way to much time, effort, and money doing a variety of neat things, all which /might/ be really sweet. However, as a consequence, all of them tend to be late-to-market or perpetually starved for resources to accomplish their stated goals. I hold Sun's Sr. management responsible for this lack of focus, in that they've flailed around, and been unable to make the hard decisions as to WHICH cool tech is worth the 100% effort (and, stick to those assessments for more than 6 months), and then cut (or, preferably reassign) those resources from non-priority projects. This problem has been exacerbated by the layoffs in the last two years, where, instead of cutting whole teams and canceling projects, we've had to absorb 10% cut across most divisions, without a corresponding adjustment of priorities and goals. The sorry thing I see of this whole merger is that it was COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY. Sun had more than enough cash on hand, and quite a few very profitable products. We could very well have returned to being a (quite) profitable company, if a hard focus could have been attained. And, of course, the idiot distraction of trying to buy other companies (MySQL, anyone?) which don't help our existing core competencies. I like Jonathan, and supported many of his initiatives. But he fundamentally failed in being able to reign-in and refocus Sun, which was what could have saved the company. It's sad. We'll see what the Oracle buyout does for focus and budgets (I'm actually hopeful here). I'm also hoping we can retain some of the fabulously innovative culture here, but that's a much more sketchy possibility. Then again, what do I really know. I'm just a line-level worker here. [I in no way speak for anyone but myself at Sun. This is merely my personal opinion.] -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195
Re: [osol-discuss] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 7:52 AM, Edward Ned Harvey sola...@nedharvey.com wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/ I always knew (after 2006 at least) that JS is a God-damn *TRAITOR*. ¨Upon change in control, every employee needs to emotionally resign from Sun. Go home, light a candle, and let go of the expectations and assumptions that defined Sun as a workplace. Honor and remember them, but let them go.¨ I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. He's right. Those people from Sun who are moving on to Oracle ... they are getting new bosses, and a new corporate culture, and moving in a new direction. This is not comfortable, but it's better than getting terminated if the company collapsed. Edward Ned Harvey, wait a minute. He is right? Maybe from the point where Sun now is, but do not forget that HE BROUGHT IT HERE. And even if that would not be the case, then he is still a traitor. He has laid-off 10K or more Sun-employees during the recent years, always because ¨it is good for Sun¨ and ¨I love Sun¨ and other fairy tales. Unfortunately didn´t he lay-off himself. Because in that case Sun would still be alive! Not because of the 10 Millions per year that he paid himself in Bonuses, and not due to all the other millions that were paid to other board members. But because of the BILLIONS Sun lost due to his bright decisions. Such as to pay 1 Billion for MySQL at the height of an completely overheated market, shortly before the big crash. Precisely the same as the wasted 4 BILLIONS that Sun paid for Cobalt in September 2000 (ok, Mc Nealy back then). Whatever, your message shows that you didn´t follow Sun´s history closely enough. And especially, that life or death of Sun does not affect you personally in much of a way. Neither financially (as employee), nor emotionally. -- %martin Oracle didn't buy Sun to gain their idealism or culture. They wanted to acquire talent and technology. Those employees who are transitioning ... must accept the fact that it is a transition. Things will not remain the same. They must embrace change, and welcome their new ... Robotic overlords. ;-) Seriously though, except the overlords part. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 7:52 AM, Edward Ned Harvey sola...@nedharvey.com wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/ I always knew (after 2006 at least) that JS is a God-damn *TRAITOR*. ¨Upon change in control, every employee needs to emotionally resign from Sun. Go home, light a candle, and let go of the expectations and assumptions that defined Sun as a workplace. Honor and remember them, but let them go.¨ I don't think there's anything wrong with that at all. He's right. Those people from Sun who are moving on to Oracle ... they are getting new bosses, and a new corporate culture, and moving in a new direction. This is not comfortable, but it's better than getting terminated if the company collapsed. And I forgot it in my previous reply: Those words are bad enough. But did you read the article??? The context in which he said this is his own resignation! Had he resigned years ago I would have applauded! But now he is like the captain who runs away from the ship he has sunk himself. Before running away he took as much gold as he could (the negotiated golden extra-bonuses he gets). And his crew??? Uhm, oh... well? For THEM all he had were these words. Still think is is right? I´m confused. %m Oracle didn't buy Sun to gain their idealism or culture. They wanted to acquire talent and technology. Those employees who are transitioning ... must accept the fact that it is a transition. Things will not remain the same. They must embrace change, and welcome their new ... Robotic overlords. ;-) Seriously though, except the overlords part. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/22/sun_schwartz_signoff/ I always knew (after 2006 at least) that JS is a God-damn *TRAITOR*. Many were blended by his fluff. But now you have it black on white, on Video, on Audio-tape. ¨Upon change in control, every employee needs to emotionally resign from Sun. Go home, light a candle, and let go of the expectations and assumptions that defined Sun as a workplace. Honor and remember them, but let them go.¨ ¨So thank you, again, for the privilege and honor of working together. The Internet's made the world a far smaller place - so I'm sure we'll be bumping into one another. Go Oracle!¨ I wish you all good luck with your jobs. %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] libpciaccess problem (sparc)
Hi Jean, thanks for your technical help and sponsorship so far, plus for bringing this up on this list. Maybe Edward Shu can help us, see http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-May/024820.html . ... or maybe Ian Romanick, who wrote libpciaccess in the first place. I CC: both of them plus added 2 further relevant lists. I hope we can nail this one down once and forever, finally! In the interest of the SPARC-OpenSolaris user base and community. .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. .:*~*:._.:*~))HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL, btw)))_.:*~*:._.:*~*:. .:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:. Cheers, %martin On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 4:48 PM, jf simon j...@themis.com wrote: hi As already reported by Martin Bochnig a while back, i too am having problem with libpciaccess on Sparc. it seems that when the code in function src/solx_devfs.c::pci_device_solx_devfs_probe() is doing ... (void) di_walk_node(rnode, DI_WALK_CLDFIRST, (void *)args, find_target_node); ... the callback find_target_node() is recursively called, BUT is not finding the right node (from device tree) it is looking for. as a result the MMIO base addresses from assigned-addresses are not found. so it is impossible to find the PCI MMIO base address of a given device. i have printed all the nodes that are passed to find_target_node() and it seems that they are wrongly built. (no reg or assigned-addresses properties seen. so there is a problem between libpciaccess (sparc) and the libdevinfo library. prtconf(1) is working fine on sparc and is using libdevinfo. i have looked at it and i can't see any meaningful differences with what libpciaccess is doing. (di_init() ,...) any ideas? thanks a lot, Best regards, ___ jean-francois simon - themis computer 5, rue irene joliot curie 38320 eybens - france +33 (0)4 76 14 77 85 - www.themis.com ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] SXCE b129: can't boot from SATA
hi, is SUNWefc (or equivalent) installed? rgds. %mab On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:56 PM, jf simon j...@themis.com wrote: hi i have installed opensolaris sxce b129 on my system (ultraSparc T2). the install from DVD to sata disk went well. but upon reboot from the SATA disk, i get the following panic (plse see below). note that i have no problem with solaris 10. thx for any help on this issue, rgds -jfs Boot device: /p...@0/p...@0/p...@5/LSILogic,s...@0/d...@8,0:a File and args: SunOS Release 5.11 Version snv_129 64-bit Copyright 1983-2009 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. Use is subject to license terms. / panic[cpu0]/thread=180e000: mod_hold_stub: Couldn't load stub module misc/pcicfg 0180abc0 genunix:mod_hold_stub+1d0 (0, 18afc00, 18fa280, 30001322008, 1830c68, 18fa000) %l0-3: 030001f66d58 013c0dd4 %l4-7: 0060 0068 0180ac70 unix:stubs_common_code+30 (30001f66cf0, 0, , 2, 0, 0) %l0-3: 0001 0001 0101 %l4-7: 00b0 01830c78 0060 0180ad20 pcie:pcie_init+98 (30001f66cf0, , 13c6800, 4ff, 13c6800, 0) %l0-3: 030001f66cf0 fc00 8400 8648 %l4-7: 8532 8400 0003 0180add0 pcieb:pcieb_attach+1f4 (30001f66cf0, 300013220a8, 0, 1935c00, 0, 30001341580) %l0-3: 0004 01935c00 030001f7b8f8 0040 %l4-7: 013b7148 013b7000 0068 0180ae90 genunix:devi_attach+a0 (30001f66cf0, 0, 1, , , 13b50d8) %l0-3: 0300013337a0 00f4 0004 0127e000 %l4-7: 6320 0127e3a0 0127e000 7c00 0180af60 genunix:attach_node+9c (30001f66cf0, 1, 0, 0, 30001f66d58, 180c000) %l0-3: 031541e0 03154240 fffe fffefc00 %l4-7: 4001 4001 0001 0180b010 genunix:i_ndi_config_node+100 (30001f66cf0, 6, 10, 18a2000, 0, 18a2000) %l0-3: 0001 018a2098 018a2000 %l4-7: 01117db0 01117c00 0004 0108 0180b0c0 genunix:i_ddi_attachchild+34 (30001f66cf0, 180e000, 0, 0, 30001f67710, 0) %l0-3: 030001338bc8 018f4e08 0001 %l4-7: 0001 0001 0180b170 genunix:devi_attach_node+a8 (30001f66cf0, 4080, 3000134b444, 30001f66d58, 0, 2) %l0-3: 03154208 0001 %l4-7: 0001 0001 0180b220 genunix:devi_config_one+2e4 (30001f67710, 35, 1903800, 1, 0, 4080) %l0-3: 030001338bc8 030001f67778 %l4-7: 030001f66cf0 0001 03000134b444 0180b320 genunix:ndi_devi_config_one+a8 (30001f67710, 3000134b440, 180b488, 4080, 0, ) %l0-3: 01935bb8 0400 01004080 0100 %l4-7: 4000 01004008 000a 0180b3d0 genunix:resolve_pathname+180 (1274c00, 0, 180b578, 0, 4000, 3000134b440) %l0-3: 030001f67710 03000134b540 0180b488 0180b490 %l4-7: 01274e18 030f2240 0180b4c0 genunix:ddi_pathname_to_dev_t+10 (1866b68, 180e000, 0, 2, 1, ) %l0-3: 0003 030001321d90 0010 0003 %l4-7: 010d5530 0004 0004 0003 0180b580 swapgeneric:getrootdev+8 (0, 18f5000, 18f5000, 187c000, 1, 1866800) %l0-3: 02a10001fc80 0001 %l4-7: 0180c000 02a100577c80 0002 0088 0180b630 unix:stubs_common_code+70 (0, 18f5000, 18f5000, 187c000, 1, 1913400) %l0-3: 0180aef9 0180afd1 0182b800 %l4-7: 0182f2c8 0187c0c8 02a10056fc80 0180b700 ufs:ufs_mountroot+38 (18d4740, 0, 18a7c00, 708, 0, 13125a4) %l0-3: 0182b800 01908400 0127ec00 0120f800 %l4-7: 01903800 0127ec00 0120f800 018f6000 0180b7d0 swapgeneric:rootconf+29c (0, 0, 4, 18ad800, 18adca0, 1903800) %l0-3: 012fe400 019039c0 01866800 2fff %l4-7: 01903000 018ad800 018ad800 0180b880
Re: [osol-discuss] SXCE b129: can't boot from SATA
On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 12:44 AM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: hi, is SUNWefc (or equivalent) installed? Or SUNWckr? One or both of those packages seem to be missing on your config. rgds. %mab On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 2:56 PM, jf simon j...@themis.com wrote: hi i have installed opensolaris sxce b129 on my system (ultraSparc T2). the install from DVD to sata disk went well. but upon reboot from the SATA disk, i get the following panic (plse see below). note that i have no problem with solaris 10. thx for any help on this issue, rgds -jfs Boot device: /p...@0/p...@0/p...@5/LSILogic,s...@0/d...@8,0:a File and args: SunOS Release 5.11 Version snv_129 64-bit Copyright 1983-2009 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All rights reserved. Use is subject to license terms. / panic[cpu0]/thread=180e000: mod_hold_stub: Couldn't load stub module misc/pcicfg 0180abc0 genunix:mod_hold_stub+1d0 (0, 18afc00, 18fa280, 30001322008, 1830c68, 18fa000) %l0-3: 030001f66d58 013c0dd4 %l4-7: 0060 0068 0180ac70 unix:stubs_common_code+30 (30001f66cf0, 0, , 2, 0, 0) %l0-3: 0001 0001 0101 %l4-7: 00b0 01830c78 0060 0180ad20 pcie:pcie_init+98 (30001f66cf0, , 13c6800, 4ff, 13c6800, 0) %l0-3: 030001f66cf0 fc00 8400 8648 %l4-7: 8532 8400 0003 0180add0 pcieb:pcieb_attach+1f4 (30001f66cf0, 300013220a8, 0, 1935c00, 0, 30001341580) %l0-3: 0004 01935c00 030001f7b8f8 0040 %l4-7: 013b7148 013b7000 0068 0180ae90 genunix:devi_attach+a0 (30001f66cf0, 0, 1, , , 13b50d8) %l0-3: 0300013337a0 00f4 0004 0127e000 %l4-7: 6320 0127e3a0 0127e000 7c00 0180af60 genunix:attach_node+9c (30001f66cf0, 1, 0, 0, 30001f66d58, 180c000) %l0-3: 031541e0 03154240 fffe fffefc00 %l4-7: 4001 4001 0001 0180b010 genunix:i_ndi_config_node+100 (30001f66cf0, 6, 10, 18a2000, 0, 18a2000) %l0-3: 0001 018a2098 018a2000 %l4-7: 01117db0 01117c00 0004 0108 0180b0c0 genunix:i_ddi_attachchild+34 (30001f66cf0, 180e000, 0, 0, 30001f67710, 0) %l0-3: 030001338bc8 018f4e08 0001 %l4-7: 0001 0001 0180b170 genunix:devi_attach_node+a8 (30001f66cf0, 4080, 3000134b444, 30001f66d58, 0, 2) %l0-3: 03154208 0001 %l4-7: 0001 0001 0180b220 genunix:devi_config_one+2e4 (30001f67710, 35, 1903800, 1, 0, 4080) %l0-3: 030001338bc8 030001f67778 %l4-7: 030001f66cf0 0001 03000134b444 0180b320 genunix:ndi_devi_config_one+a8 (30001f67710, 3000134b440, 180b488, 4080, 0, ) %l0-3: 01935bb8 0400 01004080 0100 %l4-7: 4000 01004008 000a 0180b3d0 genunix:resolve_pathname+180 (1274c00, 0, 180b578, 0, 4000, 3000134b440) %l0-3: 030001f67710 03000134b540 0180b488 0180b490 %l4-7: 01274e18 030f2240 0180b4c0 genunix:ddi_pathname_to_dev_t+10 (1866b68, 180e000, 0, 2, 1, ) %l0-3: 0003 030001321d90 0010 0003 %l4-7: 010d5530 0004 0004 0003 0180b580 swapgeneric:getrootdev+8 (0, 18f5000, 18f5000, 187c000, 1, 1866800) %l0-3: 02a10001fc80 0001 %l4-7: 0180c000 02a100577c80 0002 0088 0180b630 unix:stubs_common_code+70 (0, 18f5000, 18f5000, 187c000, 1, 1913400) %l0-3: 0180aef9 0180afd1 0182b800 %l4-7: 0182f2c8 0187c0c8 02a10056fc80 0180b700 ufs:ufs_mountroot+38 (18d4740, 0, 18a7c00, 708, 0, 13125a4) %l0-3: 0182b800 01908400 0127ec00 0120f800 %l4-7: 01903800 0127ec00 0120f800 018f6000 0180b7d0 swapgeneric:rootconf+29c (0, 0, 4, 18ad800, 18adca0, 1903800) %l0-3: 012fe400
Re: [osol-discuss] [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, leg
On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 4:07 AM, Alan Coopersmith
alan.coopersm...@sun.com wrote:
Martin Bochnig wrote:
If Alan tells me what he can open src (in his spare time, as soon as
he might have some),
I released the source to Xsun's /usr/openwin/server/lib/libserverdga.so.1
this week, it's just well hidden and not yet buildable 8-).
I've not checked, so can't promise, but believe I should be able to release
the sources to all of the current SUNWxsun-server package, except for these
files:
/usr/openwin/lib/X11/*.{ps,upr,VM}
/usr/openwin/lib/X11/XatmEncodingMap
/usr/openwin/lib/X11/fonts/*
/usr/openwin/server/etc/*.{im1,im8,im1.Z,im8.Z} [splash screen images]
/usr/openwin/server/lib/libserverdps.so.5
/usr/openwin/server/lib/libfont.so.1
/usr/openwin/server/lib/libtypesclr.so.0
Alan, this is GREAT NEWS!
I'm more than sure, many will thank you for your work towards opening it up.
.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
Today is Xmas)))
.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:._.:*~*:.
You'll lose the DPS extension and F3 font support. You'll get to come up with
new splash screens that don't have trademarked logos, and have to replace the
encumbered libfont.so.1 with the open source libXfont.so.1 (using FreeType for
Type1 TrueType rendering instead of Xsun's encumbered backends for those).
That's jusy great!
Should be doable.
Thanks,
%martin
I won't be working on releasing any of that until after the X11R7.5 release
is done and until after the community shows enough commitment to have set up
the project.
--
-Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@sun.com
Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering
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opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, leg
Hello Ken, I do not know what you are talking about. Opensrc ifb?? Then you name all available (/dev/fb!!! and Xsun-ddx!!!) drivers from http://hub.opensolaris.org/bin/view/downloads/sparc_graphics up and down, but a few things are not correct at all (Ati vs. not Ati), and the rest simply has not much to do with Xorg (only exists as closed src, and especially for Xsun, not for Xorg). Then, who is stepping in? Tech-Source? This card was released in April 2006, when a few things still looked differently in the landscape: www.techsource.com/press/releases/pdf/Press-Release-GFX550e.pdf I also don't understand, who is going to replace which boards, with whatever other boards. And Ati? They are stepping in? If they would (by themselves) write updated fcodes for every new board they bring to market (and offer it in both flavours, either x86 BIOS vs. IEEE1275 fcodes, then this would be correct. Also, what precisely do you have in mind when you state, that We don't need legacy XSun today for the majority of SPARC users - if the XSun/Xorg migration is done the RIGHT way.? Why lack Expert3d, XVR-500, XVR-600, XVR-1000, XVR-1200 Xorg driver support then? Also, what is your distinction 2d vs. 3d about? No 3d SPARC drivers were released or supported by Sun, Sun's implementation of OpenGL did not need or have special 3d driver support, nor does Mesa. Mesa's dri modules could be compiled, but w/o a functional DRM backend they are unusable and hence useless. Our old dream of a Xsun vs. Xorg ddx module bridge died the moment, when Alan once shared some information with us, back in fall 2007. Plus when he gave us sunInit.c (or how the file was called). Then we saw, that it basically only worked, because the Xorgddx__IN__Xsun case was quite downhill, while the other direction is exactly that! To simplify what the wrapper module (wrong direction) once did: It took most important Xorg .o files and linked them into a dlopen() loadable shared library, rather than into an executable with the name Xorg. This Xorg (linked as library) would then be loaded by Xsun's ddx loader functions. Only the device specific stuff from Xorg would be actually called, for the rest native Xsun would be taken. This is a simplistic view, but that was the core idea of how it had functioned. The other direction is uphill for a *number* of reasons. One is, that the now current X11 release is much more apart from Xsun (once upon a time both did have the same ancestors, X11R6). The others are too vague, because most of my findings were based on reverse-playing with Xsun- and its drivers' binaries *only*. But even playing studying the wrapper matter the false way (using Xorg ddx modules inside Xsun) was a PIA to say the least. *forget the wrapper* We need Xsun for the beforementioned cards where no Xorg driver will ever exist, beforementioned at least a 1000 times (also by others). If it cannot be opened, then the users need to install Xsun bins from the final SXCE. All we could then do in such a case is to write a transition HOWTO. And - of course - to stabilize those where there are Xorg community drivers available. As I once again wrote last week. This is in fact what I'm doing here, almost every evening. p.s. Back to the WhoIsWho question, aka eg. Ati vs. not Ati: Here you just see my changes to the xorgconfig Cards database file (xorgconfig is now obsolete), which I once added for superficial conventience. There you can unambiguously see, what is what. Sun's marketing branding did not always make sense. For example the PGX(8), PGX24 (only onboard), and PGX64 were all (different) Aty (!) aka Ati chipsets, while the PGX32 was not at all... With XVR-200 Alan is right. Here you see all Xorg supported cards versus their matching ddx modules: http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/fox/fox-gate/XW_NV/open-src/xserver/xorg/sparc_solaris_Cards.patch 252 +NAME *** XVR-200 Sun Fire T2000 (x1 PCI Express MatroxGraphics G55-MDDE32LPDF RoHS:Y) 253 +CHIPSET mgag550 254 +SERVER SVGA 255 +DRIVER mga 256 +LINE VideoRam 32768 257 +LINE # Option mga_sdram 258 +NOCLOCKPROBE 259 + 260 + I still don't understand, why you wrote all this. Best regards, %martin bochnig On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Alan Coopersmith alan.coopersm...@sun.com wrote: ken mays wrote: We can easily use the newer XVR boards like the XVR-300 to replace many older PCI-E boards and the XVR-2500 board for others. The PCI boards can be replaced as well. What older PCI-E boards would it replace? The only PCI-E graphics cards Sun ever sold for SPARC workstations were the XVR-300 for 2D users and the XVR-2500 for 3D users. I think of XSun as a legacy Xserver from Xorg 6.x source with added 'closed' and/or 'licensed' supplemental modules from Sun Engineering. That is it. We don't need legacy XSun today for the majority of SPARC users - if the XSun/Xorg migration is done the RIGHT way. Xsun is not based on Xorg
Re: [osol-discuss] [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, leg
Err, for the record: On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 3:14 AM, Martin Bochnig mar...@martux.org wrote: Our old dream of a Xsun vs. Xorg ddx module bridge died the moment, when Alan once shared some information with us, back in fall 2007. Plus when he gave us sunInit.c (or how the file was called). And of course the Xsun 2.6 DDK which he shared, plus which I also eBayed and still have on CD ... Plus the old Xorg driver porting Kit in its 2 realeased versions, still have those 2 on hdd somewhere... -- %martin bochnig ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, leg
Ok, the last update, sorry for writing a 3rd message: Even *if* somebody would ever be going to write such a wrapper (i don't see the ROI), then it would be completely impossible to do so, without first having Xsun available in src, plus putting lots of entire src files (the resulting object files) into it. But let's forget the wrapper. If Alan tells me what he can open src (in his spare time, as soon as he might have some), and what I or anybody must circa do (just the direction) to get it working without the problematic un-openable parts (fonts), then I'm glad to help doing these things, as part of the project proposed last week. -- %martin bochnig ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, leg
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 3:34 AM, ken mays maybird1...@yahoo.com wrote: As for the future, we have already spoke of running XSun legacy drivers in Xorg space. Also, porting working accelerated drivers to OpenSolaris. So, we don't need the full XSun, CDE, OpenWin consolidations on SPARC for the future redistributable OS. Let sleeping dogs lie. You can still use SXCE until then or Solaris 10 for whatever legacy apps you may be using on those SPARC stations. hi ken, all, i don't care about dogs. but when did we last discuss this? I do think that we do want Xsun! forget about using Xsun legacy ddx modueles in Xorg, except you do it. do you have precise ideas? ... especially, as we will never have the ddx src of most modules. regards, %martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] XSun emancipation project proposal (Was: Re: [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, legacy graphic cards)
Hi Mark, +1 from me. I still cannot believe it. A dream coming true))) Cheers, %martin On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:04 PM, Mark Martin storycraf...@gmail.com wrote: (Rough) straw project proposal for your consideration. My interest is solely as an eventual beneficiary of your work. = *XSun emancipation***Project = Name *XSun emancipation* alias: *xsun*-disc...@os.o Synopsis A project to emancipate the XSun sources and write wrappers to use XSun based drivers on Xorg. Sponsor ON CG Core Contributors Martin Bochnig Ken Mays Alan Coopersmith Description Charter: To release as much XSun source as possible (considering legal encumberances this may not be the complete source base). To produce suitable wrappers and conversion utilities so that existing drivers which are closed and encumbered may still be used with newer Xorg server. Related Projects *FOX Project* Expected deliverables - Release XSun source - Modify XSun source to work with libXfont Context ON/Nevada *OpenSolaris* Development Process http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/os_dev_process/ Preliminary discussions regarding project proposal http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/xwin-discuss/2009-November/004041.html ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] XSun emancipation project proposal (Was: Re: [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, legacy graphic cards)
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 9:15 PM, Alan Coopersmith alan.coopersm...@sun.com wrote: Mark Martin wrote: (Rough) straw project proposal for your consideration. My interest is solely as an eventual beneficiary of your work. = *XSun emancipation***Project = Name *XSun emancipation* alias: *xsun*-disc...@os.o Synopsis A project to emancipate the XSun sources and write wrappers to use XSun based drivers on Xorg. Sponsor ON CG I would think it would be the X community group, since none of this code has ever been in ON. Otherwise, the strawman seems reasonable, though I'd expect the list of contributors to change before the final proposal is submitted. For instance, while I've volunteered to work on the code release, once that's done, I won't be leading this project or probably doing much more than answering questions and giving advice. -- -Alan Coopersmith- alan.coopersm...@sun.com Sun Microsystems, Inc. - X Window System Engineering Alan, whatever, doesn't matter to me. But please let us form this wonderful open-Xsun project))) -- %martin bochnig ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] XSun emancipation project proposal (Was: Re: [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, legacy graphic cards)
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Mauro M. m...@ezplanet.net wrote: = *XSun emancipation***Project = Name *XSun emancipation* Thank you Mark for doing this. Only I would suggest Open Xsun for the project name. Emancipation sounds inappropriate as its meaning is about freeing people from oppression and slavery, Xsun is a software component, not a person and it isn't really oppressed. My Italian and Latin backgrounds ... Mauro: Firstly, the term emancipation hits the nail on its head most precisely. Although I myself also generally prefer OpenFoo, as I indicated when I proposed this new project a few hours ago: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/xwin-discuss/2009-November/004046.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/xwin-discuss/2009-November/004047.html http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/xwin-discuss/2009-November/date.html Secondly: Look under Firstly.. ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] XSun emancipation project proposal (Was: Re: [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, legacy graphic cards)
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:30 PM, Mauro M. m...@ezplanet.net wrote: Emancipation sounds inappropriate as its meaning is about freeing people from oppression and slavery, Xsun is a software component, not a person and it isn't really oppressed. Firstly, the term emancipation hits the nail on its head most precisely. Although I myself also generally prefer OpenFoo, as I indicated when I proposed this new project a few hours ago: Go on some consideration for an old language ... Open is OK, or try again with another name. I focus on making it happen and function, even if we call it Project cosmic flower. I'm not a native speaker of English myself, nor ever lived in a country where most citizens are. Also, please let's move back to and stay on the xwin alias. You misinterpreted my messages. The name FullyOpenX was once invented by Alan Coopersmith. And I said we should adopt this naming for Xsun, and hence call it FullyOpenXsun. That's what my proposal looked like. All the rest came afterwards. I thank Mark for setting it up in a professional manner and for posting it on genunix. p.s. The anglification-problem is the same where I come from and where I now live, if all that matters at all on a technical list (germany and Ukraine). I put xwin into CC once again. Martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] XSun emancipation project proposal (Was: Re: [xwin-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, legacy graphic cards)
On Thu, Nov 5, 2009 at 11:36 PM, Mark Martin storycraf...@gmail.com wrote: Mauro M. wrote: Emancipation sounds inappropriate as its meaning is about freeing people from oppression and slavery, Xsun is a software component, not a person and it isn't really oppressed. Firstly, the term emancipation hits the nail on its head most precisely. Although I myself also generally prefer OpenFoo, as I indicated when I proposed this new project a few hours ago: Go on some consideration for an old language ... Open is OK, or try again with another name. It's been renamed on the wiki. I chose emancipation as there is already a project (or is it a community? I forget) with similar goals. I'd invite anyone that is interested in further wordsmithing to edit the wiki directly. Mark, this sounds like a good fit. But you or the community can decide about the name, it is irrelevant to me. I'm just happy about our new Xsun community project))) Thanks again for backing me. Martin ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Sun UltraSparc: XVR-500, Expert 3D, legacy graphic cards
OBP *is* open src since 2007. And there have always been guides and books describing how to write fcode drivers. One I know costs 60$ and includes many sample fcode / forth sample drivers, including basic graphics. if you are that expert who will write us all this fancy stuff, then you can already start. -- %mab On Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Jensen Lee hayd...@haydude.org wrote: Sun's been selling ATI cards for SPARC workstations for a while, the XVR-100 (PCI) and XVR-300 (PCI-E) - both of which are supported under OpenSolaris Xorg - sales are not exciting in the least. Is this perhaps because they are 2D and too expensive for what they offer? Developing new models would cost millions, especially if it meant having nvidia port their driver to a new platform and develop OBP-compatible firmware for their hardware. It cannot be that hard or expensive to develop an OPB firmware for an existing chipset, again, give us the OBP source code and will do it for you guys, free. It would also let Sun see that there is still a large SPARC workstation market out there that they have been ignoring. What Sun fail to understand here is that it does not make sense to sell SPARC servers without supporting workstations. Where do they think the application development do take place? -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
