Re: [opensuse] Latest Version of Acroread

2008-01-09 Thread Ken Jennings
On Tuesday 2008-01-08 19:58, Dave Howorth wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 01:35 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > The Tuesday 2008-01-08 at 18:14 -0600, JB2 wrote:
> > >  Kpdf is better.
> >
> > Not if you need features such as forms.
>
> Ooh! I must look for that tomorrow - I care about forms. Thanks :)
>
> Having said that, I wasted time today because acroread repeatedly
> crashed our HP4650 with a particular document. gv handled it fine.

Is gv just inherently ugly or is something wrong with my install?  Fonts look 
jagged and mishapen even at ridiculously high magnification.

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Re: [opensuse] Question about VMWare

2008-01-02 Thread Ken Jennings
On Wednesday 2008-01-02 21:58, Robert Smits wrote:
> On my laptop, I currently have a dual boot Windows/OpenSuse 10.3 setup. I
> have installed VMWare Server.
>
> This laptop is a Compaq X1000, and comes with a hidden partition and XP
> Home install disks.
>
> I'd like to get rid of the XP and hidden partitions, and just have XP
> installed in VMWare.
>
> The question is whether I can just copy my whole XP partition or do I need
> to install XP Home in the VMWare Server. Are there other issues caused by
> this configuration I should be aware of?

After adding dual boot with suse I tried to make the natively installed 
Windows XP on a Dell 4700C function with VMware.  I could never get it any 
farther with VMware than a BSOD in the middle of booting XP.  I'm sure 
there's someone else who managed to successsfully run a native install given 
the right set of hardware or phase of the moon or what not.  I couldn't.  
WinXP worked much better installing it under VMWare.
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Re: [opensuse] good notebook

2007-11-22 Thread Ken Jennings
On Thursday 2007-11-22 06:43, Donald D Henson wrote:
> ken_jennings wrote:
[...]
> > Linux on Laptops maintains reports of linux compatibility for a wide
> > variety of laptops: http://www.linux-on-laptops.com
> >
> > I have recently installed openSuse on several Dell notebooks -- an
> > Inspiron 1501, a 1505, and a Precision M90.  They all work well with
> > openSuse 10.2/10.3 out of the box.
> >
> > The Precision M90 is "older" hardware and worked particularly well:
> > http://www.kenjennings.cc/m90/M90_openSuse_10_2.html
>
> Does your comment apply also to getting wifi to work?

Yup. The details are on the web page.  The install saw the wifi hardware and 
went through the config. I only had to enter the SSID and key and it worked.  
I didn't have to rebuild any modules.  (And this is a 64-bit install, too).

The Wifi is started as eth1 on demand by KNetwork Manager when I log in.  The 
wired ethernet eth0 overrides it when it is plugged in, because they are 
using the same route to the internet through the router.  Both interface 
addresses/routes are configured by the router with DHCP.  It was so simple it 
was scary.

Thanks,
Ken.
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Re: [opensuse] Scripting Question - Converting value to minutes:seconds

2007-11-19 Thread Ken Jennings
On Monday 2007-11-19 21:59, Bryen wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-11-20 at 03:40 +0100, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> > The Monday 2007-11-19 at 13:06 -0600, Bryen wrote:

> > > I'm trying to convert a value to an output to the user of
> > > minutes:seconds.
> > >
> > > For example:
> > > if $A=100 (for seconds)
> > > Then echo "This is 1:40 minutes"
> > >
> > > How would I do this?

> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~> date --date="2007-1-1 100 minutes"
> > Mon Jan  1 01:40:00 CET 2007
> >
> > Maybe it can be refined, but you can see it does the conversion of 100
> > minutes.

> That's an interesting variation of the date command.  And I'm certainly
> going to keep that in mind should the need for that type of variation
> arise.   But in my script case, I was looking to convert a value into
> minutes/seconds not relative to clock time.

My itchy trigger finger deleted several emails in the thread.   Did anyone 
refine the date cccommand???

$ date --date="2007-1-1 100 seconds" +"This is %M:%S minutes"
This is 01:40 minutes

Thanks,
Ken
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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.3 Boxes (shipping?)

2007-10-29 Thread Ken Jennings
On Monday 2007-10-29 12:48, Dennis J. Tuchler wrote:
> russbucket wrote:
> > On Monday October 29 2007 01:02, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
> >> Did you get in the meantime some reaction?  The problems should have
> >> been solved by now...

> > Only response I have gotten so far is an email saying its on back order
> > and I will receive and email when it ships. No tentative date or anything
> > else. Appears to be the same email others have received.
> >
> > Thanks for your interest. I will keep looking on website for status.
>
> I got the same e-mail yesterday.  It will be a while...

Earlier TODAY the openSUSE 10.3 box arrived via USPS.

A few moments ago I received this email:



Dear KENNETH JENNINGS:

Your order from Novell on September 22, 2007 has been 
shipped and your credit card has been charged.

Please do not reply to this email. If you have a question regarding 
your order, please go to 
http://shop.novell.com/question

Product SKU  Product Name  Qty Ordered  Qty Shipped  Total Qty Shipped  Amount
--
662644471914 openSUSE 10.3 1            1            1                  $64.95  
    



It's amazing that USPS is faster than an email server!

They charged shipping for a pre-order. I hope Novell doesn't use these jokers 
again.
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Re: [opensuse] OpenSUSE 10.3 Boxes (shipping?)

2007-10-23 Thread Ken Jennings
On Monday 2007-10-22 23:54, Kevin Dupuy wrote:
> On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 16:11 -0700, russbucket wrote:
> > On Monday October 22 2007 16:09, Jorge Fábregas wrote:
> > > Hello gys,
> > >
> > > Does anyone knows if the 10.3 boxes are already shipping? I ordered
> > > mine last Monday and I haven't received any shipping notification. It
> > > still says "Pre-Order today" on shop.novell.com though...
> > >
> > > I contacted CS but so far no answer :(

> > Ordered mine 10-2-2007 still says in process. Sent email to sales, no
> > response yet!

> Mine as well. I ordered it on 10/1. I'm going to call Novell tommorow. I
> seem to remember it took a while for 10.2 last year, but not 22 days!
> Not to mention they said it was shipping on 10/11 in my email.
>
> By the way, what country are you two in? I'm in the US...

I ordered mine on 9/22. Still haven't seen it.  In spite of the promise of 
free shipping for pre-ordering the invoice lists a shipping charge.

I'm in the US.
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Re: [opensuse] home partition is full

2007-08-26 Thread Ken Jennings
On Sunday 2007-08-26 02:08, Rajko M. wrote:
> . . . but for instance:
>   ~/.kde
> directory contains not only settings, but also KMail has all your mail in
> one of subdirectories. That you don't want to delete too.

Is this new?  I'm using 10.2 and Kmail keeps only a few config files in 
locations under the .kde directory.  All the mail is in ~/Mail

Thanks, Ken. 
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Re: [opensuse] Re: Who said Linux doesnot get Virus infections

2007-08-22 Thread Ken Jennings
On Wednesday 2007-08-22 11:16, Joachim Schrod wrote:
> Sloan wrote:
> > It seems to be essentially one of the "honor system" viruses for unix,
> > you know the drill:
> >
> > 1. download the hostile executable
> > 2. save the save the hostile executable somewhere appropriate
> > 3. change the file mode to make it executable.
> > 4. execute it with the command ./
> > 5. hilarity ensues (or not)
>
> Let me propose another hilarious 5-step process:

Allow me to propose a one step process:

1) You explain why every linux/unix/*ix box on the planet is not owned by 
hackers and spammers while so many possible exploits exist.
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Re: [opensuse] printing emails with loooooong lines from kmail ...

2007-08-21 Thread Ken Jennings
On Tuesday 2007-08-21 09:45, Daniel Bauer wrote:
> Hello,
>
> When printing an email that contains a very long line (an URL) the whole
> email gets scaled, so that the long line fits on the paper - thus makes the
> printout unreadable.
>
> any idea how/where I can set that when printing such long-lined-emails the
> line gets splittet into several lines?
>
> as an example: try to print this e-mail from kmail
> (URL below to show such a long line and its effect)
> http://localhost/nowhere/this_is_just_a_sample_to_show_a_very_long_line/tha
>t_makes_the_print_of_this_page/completely_unreadable/because_the_line_is_sca
>led/to_fit_on_one_line_of_the_paper/to_show_the_effekt/the_line_must_be_real
>ly_long/just_like_this/or_even_longer.html

Yeah, reeeal annoying.  I went through every option for configuring KMail and 
every dialog related to printing and didn't see anything to control line 
length or force line wrapping when printing. 

Best I could do was save the individual email, open it in a text editor 
(Kate).  Printing in Kate forces line wrapping to the line length dictated by 
the font for printing.
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Re: [opensuse] Small database program?

2007-08-18 Thread Ken Jennings
On Monday 2007-05-28 20:22, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Nick Zentena wrote:
> > Is there something small and simple? All I want is to set up a simple
> > home database. Items,serial numbers maybe a couple more fields. Every
> > time I go looking all I seem to find is stuff geared at running a Fortune
> > 500 company.

> gvim

Ha! ;-)   Or maybe use a spreadsheet.

(My father-in-law tracks and indexes all his jazz recordings using a port of 
ISPF for DOS.)
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Re: [opensuse] compress? uncompress? Why are they gone?

2007-08-11 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-08-11 02:36, Marcus Meissner wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 11, 2007 at 01:26:04AM -0400, Ken Jennings wrote:
> > openSuse 10.2
> > 2.6.18.8-0.5-default #1 SMP Fri Jun 22 12:17:53 UTC 2007 x86_64 
> > GNU/Linux
> >
> > Is compress/uncompress really not available in the distro?  I went to
> > install it and Yast Software Management won't show me any package that
> > either provides or is named "compress".  Oddly, the man pages are
> > installed.
> >
> > Yes, I know compress is a lame, old program. But, I'm working with some
> > .Z files from a customer  and the normally cooperative zcat objects to
> > decompressing and displaying them.  Can anyone tell me where to find 
> > current source for compress?  I found a web site with some source
> > labelled 4.3d from 1990."$@(#) compress.c,v 4.3d 90/01/18 03:00:00" 
> > Is this current?
>
> .Z should be decompressible with zcat / gunzip just fine.

Thanks.  But I'm trying to prove to a client that they did something to 
their .Z files.   The not-entirely-technical management types think I'm 
suspect if I can't show them something named "compress" with a version 
number.

> "ncompress" contains the old compress/uncompress.

Where is that?  It does not appear to be part of the distro.  A search in Yast 
shows nothing named ncompress and no RPM that provides ncompress.

This site:
http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=ncompress
shows a number of RPMs for several distros.  None of them is a suse.  Are the 
Red Hat RPMs good for openSuse?
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[opensuse] compress? uncompress? Why are they gone?

2007-08-10 Thread Ken Jennings
openSuse 10.2
2.6.18.8-0.5-default #1 SMP Fri Jun 22 12:17:53 UTC 2007 x86_64  GNU/Linux

Is compress/uncompress really not available in the distro?  I went to install 
it and Yast Software Management won't show me any package that either 
provides or is named "compress".  Oddly, the man pages are installed.

Yes, I know compress is a lame, old program. But, I'm working with some .Z 
files from a customer  and the normally cooperative zcat objects to 
decompressing and displaying them.  Can anyone tell me where to find  current 
source for compress?  I found a web site with some source labelled 4.3d from 
1990."$@(#) compress.c,v 4.3d 90/01/18 03:00:00"  Is this current?

Thanks,
Ken Jennings
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Re: [opensuse] zmd update status

2007-08-04 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-08-04 01:36, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
> "Kai Ponte" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I was just trying to do a few things on my laptop (centrino duo
> > 2GHz/2GB RAM/160G 7200RPM HDD) and noticed things were running really
> > slow. . . .
> > The process was zmd update-status.  What's that?  I googled it,
> > thinking it might be the cursed Zen Updater, but I know I removed
> > zmd-daemon.
>
> Are you sure you removed the package zmd?  If you did, then the helper
> should not run at all since it's only called from zmd.
>
> > I wonder if it could be this?
> >
> > http://en.opensuse.org/Libzypp/ZMD/ZMD7.1/helpers/update-status
> >
> > What could this be and how do I get rid of it?
>
> Did you remove the complete zmd pattern in YaST?  The helpers are in the
> package libzypp-zmd-backend - and those are only called from zmd itself.

Cool! I didn't know this zyp/zmd thing wasn't necessary, so every time I 
logged on  I've been living with this annoying crash dialog filled with a 
mile of java-esque blather describing something in zmd not running.

I removed everything that said zmd in the name and now life is good again.
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Re: [opensuse] Can't get the OpenSuse 10.2 64 disc to run

2007-07-14 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-07-14 17:32, John Meyer wrote:
> I have an AMD 64 Athelon which can run the 32 bit version of OpenSuse
> perfectly, but when I boot up from the 64 disc and select install, the
> screen goes black and stays there.  Am I missing something?  Or does AMD
> 64 not mean that it's a 64 bit processor?

Some motherboards have issues with the install, 64 bit or 32 bit.  Did you 
choose the Failsafe Install option?  That usually solves most problems I've 
had with installs.
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Re: [opensuse] Slow Motion KDE Open Folder Animation (Solved)

2007-07-14 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-07-14 16:42, Ken Jennings wrote:
> openSUSE 10.2, 2.6.18.8-0.3-default x86_64

When in doubt, update.

openSUSE 10.2, 2.6.18.8-0.5-default x86_64, and the animation problem went 
away.
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[opensuse] Slow Motion KDE Open Folder Animation

2007-07-14 Thread Ken Jennings
openSUSE 10.2, 2.6.18.8-0.3-default x86_64
KDE 3.5.5 "release 45.5"

When Konqueror opens a folder there's a short animation of an expanding box 
drawn with a dashed line superimposed over the icon.  On most systems it 
plays too fast for most people to really see it.  On this particular system 
it plays in slow motion.  I can see the box and watch it expanding in 
discrete steps -- tick, tick, tick -- before the folder opens.

It does not matter if the folder has 0 files in it or a hundred files.  It 
still takes just as long to open.  (three or four seconds.)  Is there 
something I can do to control this animation, or even just turn it off?

Thanks, Ken.
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Re: [opensuse] kdepim3 patch update crashes KNotes

2007-06-18 Thread Ken Jennings
On Monday 2007-06-18 15:03, drek wrote:
> On 06/18/2007 11:59 AM, Marcus Meissner wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 18, 2007 at 11:55:18AM +0200, Philippe Andersson wrote:
> >> I installed the following patch through YOU last Friday:
> >>
> >> - kdepim3-3.5.5-36_39.i586
> >>
> >> After rebooting my laptop, the KNotes application always crashed when a
> >> segfault. I've discarded the backtrace, but could regenerate it if
> >> needed.
> >>
> >> Reverting the kdepim3 package to its default version (kdepim3-3.5.5-36)
> >> fixed the problem.
> >>
> >> Should I file a bug with Novell or is my reporting this to the list
> >> enough ?
> >
> > Someone already did, https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=285012
>
> I had the same problem. But after updating my x86_64 system to KDE 3.5.7
> it works again...

None of the x86_64 systems I have experience this crash and they're up to 
date.  All the 32-bit 10.2 systems here have this problem.
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Re: [opensuse] Run Dual-boot XP simultaneously? (SOLVED (mostly))

2007-06-17 Thread Ken Jennings
On Thursday 2007-05-24 11:35, Rainer Klier wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, den 23.05.2007, 21:06 -0400 schrieb Ken Jennings:
> > Windows on my wife's Dell 4700C finally imploded.  Since the opportunity
> > to "fix" it was presented, I added dual-booting Suse 10.2 after
> > reinstalling XP.  It occurs to me now with a complete XP install on its
> > own partition separate from linux, shouldn't it somehow be possible to
> > run both at the same time?
> >
> > So, is there a way to run Windows XP already installed on its own
> > partition
>
> it is possible with vmware.
> at least with vmware workstation.
> i do it this way since 2001.

As it's Father's Day I (mostly) get to do what I want, so one of today's items 
was to catch up on my reading.  As luck would have it the July 2007 SYSADMIN 
Magazine has a special insert on Virtualization and July 2007 Linux Magazine 
has an article on VMware that are exactly what I was looking for. Wouldn't 
have otherwise found these until August or perhaps October.  It should work 
exactly as I described previously and I won't need to reinstall WIndows.  

I have VMware Server installed per the article and a key registered, and then 
(re)discovered I did not originally finish installing everything for suse 
10.2, so there are missing dependencies. That figures, since I lent all of 
the 10.2 discs to a friend, so it could be next Father's Day when I get the 
time to finish it.
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Re: [opensuse] Dell optiplex GX280

2007-06-13 Thread Ken Jennings
On Wednesday 2007-06-13 01:47, Wade Berrier wrote:
> On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 22:16 -0400, Ken Jennings wrote:
> > I tried installing 10.2 on a Dell optiplex GX 280. It booted fine from
> > the CD. Initial setup and the first part of the software install went
> > fine.  However, after the first reboot to continue the rest of the
> > install it locks up hard. The grub menu displays, it starts to boot, but
> > right after the suse splash appears it locks up.  The little lizard logo
> > with the animated dots never even appears.
> >
> > I couldn't find anything on Dell's linux wiki site about the GX 280, so I
> > was wondering if anyone here had specific experience.

> Can you try booting the failsafe option to see where the kernel is
> hanging?  (Doing failsafe will disable the fancy graphics and allow you
> to see the text output)

Short story: Finally got it working and finished the install, and applied all 
outstanding online updates and security patches.

Long story: Booted it to grub and chose to continue using the failsafe option.
The startup messages indicated it had early issues with the ata (actually SATA 
I think) controllers, but eventually it got past that (it stated it was 
ignoring the issue) and it continued the install.
Right after confirming the root password it panic'd and shut itself off.  
Beats me.
After that reboot and back to failsafe mode  it finished the install and 
online updates without issues.
The next reboot I let it come back up normally and it appears to be working 
fine and displays the  GUI login and KDE.
So far it appears the problem is solved.

According to http://en.opensuse.org/HCL/Desktops/Dell  :

Optiplex GX280  --  Suse Linux 10.2 -- Video/Sound/Ethernet work, 
and "Everything works without a glitch."  I'd like to know how the poster 
managed that.
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[opensuse] Dell optiplex GX280

2007-06-12 Thread Ken Jennings
I tried installing 10.2 on a Dell optiplex GX 280. It booted fine from the CD. 
Initial setup and the first part of the software install went fine.  However, 
after the first reboot to continue the rest of the install it locks up hard.  
The grub menu displays, it starts to boot, but right after the suse splash 
appears it locks up.  The little lizard logo with the animated dots never 
even appears.

I couldn't find anything on Dell's linux wiki site about the GX 280, so I was 
wondering if anyone here had specific experience. 
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Re: [opensuse] Motherboard suggestions for AMD 64 bit

2007-06-11 Thread Ken Jennings
On Monday 2007-06-11 14:12, Chris Haynes wrote:
> I'm planning to build my own development workstation and want to use an AMD
> dual 64 bit processor. I'm currently trying to select a motherboard for use
> with openSUSE 10.2 (-64)
>
> From general product reviews I liked the look of the Asus M2N32 WS Pro, but
> I've found the archive messages here about poor Asus support for Linux.
[...]

I'm using a Gigabyte GA-M55plus-S3G/2.1
Athlon 64 X2 4600+ AM2, 2G DDR2 800Mhz

I don't recall having any issues installing 10.2.  It is running 64-bit fine.
Linux wolverine 2.6.18.8-0.3-default #1 SMP Tue Apr 17 08:42:35 UTC 2007 
x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
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Re: [opensuse] GUI for environment variables

2007-06-06 Thread Ken Jennings
On Wednesday 2007-06-06 00:20, M Harris wrote:
> On Tuesday 05 June 2007 21:13, Kai Ponte wrote:
> > 
> >
> > "Hi, my name is, Kai."
> >
> > (from audience) "Hi, Kai!"
> >
> > "I am a Kate user and I don't know Vi."
>
>   Ok, these are for Kai... you have our pitty, but you are our friend.

These desktop icon/scripts do not work here.  A console window opens for a 
second and then closes.  But if I manually run the command specified in the 
Exec= line in the file it launches Kate.  

A minor quirk -- Nohup coughs up a notice to the shell :

nohup: ignoring input and appending output to `nohup.out'


I modified the command to 
1) redirect nohup's stdout/stderr to the bit bucket, 
2) use the -i option for stdin reading with Kate, and 
3) just cat the bash history file, since I usually have line numbers turned on 
in Kate.

Exec=nohup bash -c "(cat ~/.bash_history) | kate -i " >/dev/null 2>&1 &

Still, the command works fine run from a command line, but clicking on the 
icon doesn't run Kate.  I removed  the redirections to make nohup.out and 
this text appears in the file each time the desktop icon "executes" -- I 
gather it is  from Kate:

QObject::disconnect: Unexpected null parameter

Any ideas?
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

2007-05-30 Thread Ken Jennings
On Wednesday 2007-05-30 14:34, Pueblo Native wrote:
[...]
> I'm not completely biased against commercial software, but it would
> depend upon circumstances.  I'm sure your going to have some people
> scratching their heads asking why they would delete publisher and
> purchase another program (as opposed to a free download like
> OpenOffice).

Publisher is probably the worst part of the Microsoft Office suite.  It just 
doesn't work for reasonably serious work or for things Microsoft touts as the 
target uses of Publisher.   

I wrote earlier about the lame web page export from publisher.   My wife also 
designed some postcard mailers for her business using publisher.  Don't let 
those registration marks in the output fool you -- the output from Publisher 
is completely unusable at every professional bulk printing service we tried.   
Output to postscript and/or converting that to PDF does not improve Publisher 
output usability either.  

In the end I did her postcards in OpenOffice.  The only sticking point was 
determining exactly the page size to use. Once that was solved the OOo PDF 
files were good everywhere we tried to print them and the finished results 
were perfect.

Publisher is unsuitable for anything other than the most simple DTP projects 
that you will output directly to your own printer.
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Re: [opensuse] Publisher alternatives

2007-05-30 Thread Ken Jennings
On Friday 2007-05-25 08:41, Kai Ponte wrote:
> On Thu, May 24, 2007 7:57 pm, Pueblo Native wrote:
> > I'm putting together a document listing alternatives for Microsoft
> > Publisher, and so far I can only think of Scribus.  Are there any
> > others
> > out there that show  promise?
>
> AFAIK, no. There's really nothing that matches the simplicity and
> power of MS Publisher unfortunately. My wife just used it the other
> day for a open house flyer and my mom has it running in Crossover
> Office on her SUSE system. You can see a ongoing list of linux/windows
> alternatives here:
>
> http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html
>
> It has been a little while since the last update, but they seem to be
> there on occasion.

(Does it have to be "free" as in zero cost?) As far as DTP features go I'd 
recommend PageStream.  http://www.grasshopperllc.com  

Other than low-end DTP work, don't use MS Publisher for anything else.  My 
wife's boss insisted their simple web site be done in publisher.  It looked 
OK, but I wondered why it took so long for the pages to load.  I looked at 
the html and discovered that when Publisher exports to HTML it generates 
horribly bloated HTML and unnecessarily converts some text boxes to bitmaps.  
I rebuilt their web site using straight HTML and the new version was about 1 
percent of the size of the Publisher version.
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[opensuse] Run Dual-boot XP simultaneously?

2007-05-23 Thread Ken Jennings
Windows on my wife's Dell 4700C finally imploded.  Since the opportunity 
to "fix" it was presented, I added dual-booting Suse 10.2 after reinstalling 
XP.  It occurs to me now with a complete XP install on its own partition 
separate from linux, shouldn't it somehow be possible to run both at the same 
time?  

So, is there a way to run Windows XP already installed on its own partition 
from within SuSE?  Or would I be required to reinstall Windows from within 
some kind of emulation or virtualization framework?
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Re: [opensuse] RE Processors

2007-05-13 Thread Ken Jennings
On Sunday 2007-05-13 07:55, Benji Weber wrote:
[...]
> 4gb ram is not going to be
> sufficient for much longer, it's already the normal amount to get in
> new machines. If you need more ram (which games will require in a year
> or so's time) you'll need 64bit.

4G is "normal"?  Where do you shop for computers?  Most systems around here  
come with 1G out of the box, sometimes 2G if its certified for Vista.
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Re: [opensuse] RE Processors

2007-05-12 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-05-12 23:40, Registration Account wrote:
> Given the choice when getting a new PC would you choose Intel Core 2 duo
> or AMD Athlon 64bit x 2 CPU
> With 1000 and 1 benchmarks and both are similar cost to me - can you help.
>
> Please don't go anywhere outside the CPU - I can do all the limiting
> factors of different I/O subsystems.
> On the other hand please don't offer example of number of instruction
> that can be processed in ring 0 of the CPU (for example).

I would go with AMD, because it offers quite enough performance except for 
those who like to live on the bleeding edge,  and the AMD prices have come 
down a LOT now that Intel's newest CPUs have displaced AMD at the highest end 
of the performance scale.
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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

2007-05-12 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-05-12 20:51, Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> Felix Miata wrote:
> > My guess is that those on the SUSE payroll have a portion of their job
> > performance officially measured by how many bugs assigned to them remain
> > open and how long they stay open while assigned to them, which would make
> > it in their own personal best interest to get rid of them as quickly as
> > possible by any method possible, regardless of best interest to the
> > distro
>
> Every place that I've worked, there has never been a motivation to
> dispose of trouble-tickets by "any method possible" because IMPROPERLY
> closed tickets bring negative attention from managment.

Lucky you.  I have worked at worse places where the culture imposed by 
management encouraged rapid disposal of trouble reports by any means 
possible.  You just had to remind me of this.  I thought I had successfully 
repressed these memories.

At one place there was a manager who was an exceptionally nasty piece of work.  
She was entirely nontechnical and non IT -- her previous management 
experience was directing an assembly line for Nike sport shoes.  She managed 
the software development process for failure, I think intentionally.  The 
worse things got the more people she could justify hiring in her deparment 
and the more defacto control she had over the company.  

She had this bizarre belief that every problem could (SHOULD! WOULD!) be fixed 
in two days.  Typo in an SQL script?  Two days to fix.  Object class for 
messages between the server and data collection client needs to be revised 
from the top down?  Two days to fix. 

While her division foundered under the weight of over a couple dozen 
developers and QA testers six of us in the unix development department were 
making payroll for the entire company.  Of course, you can guess which group 
was actually viewed as important. So when the company neglected to pursue 
further development contracts for the unix products we were transferred to 
HER barnyard.  I saw people repeatedly fix problems by causing other bugs 
which were then fixed later by reinstating the original bug.  It was horrible 
to watch.  Everyone from the original unix development shop left in the space 
of a couple months.

Now I need to restart my visits to the  therapist.
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Re: [opensuse] Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX due to their laziness ?

2007-05-12 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-05-12 05:14, Alexey Eremenko wrote:
> Why are Novell guys closing perfectly valid bugs as WONTFIX ?
> They should stop being lazy all the day. That is not a feature-request
> but a bug.

"lazy" is unfair and exaggerated.  Every version of Suse since I started with 
8.0 has had substantial and obvious modifications and improvement.  I don't 
believe anyone working on the distro has been "lazy."

> link: https://bugzilla.novell.com/show_bug.cgi?id=264716

I read the link.  This bug is a very MINOR issue with the way an icon is 
hilighted when selected.  I had to look twice to see  the problem.  It's not 
as if the icon shows up as an unsightly blob of random pixels. The fate of 
the Suse distro is not likely to depend on this icon issue.

Also, perhaps you don't understand this quote from the bugzilla discussion, "I 
don't consider this to be a serious issue though, especially in the long term
when we want to unify the icon style."   I take this to mean there is a long 
term plan to revise all the icons.  So, you can see why they don't consider 
it important to fix an icon that will be replaced in any case.

(I think a far more important bug is that the words "Suse", "distro", 
and "bugzilla" are not present in the ISpell dictionary by default. ;-)

> What's worse is that they tell me something like: "If you do that
> again I will formally ask a certain account of bugzilla to be
> canceled."
>
> How am I supposed it eat that as a community-member ?

Be a part of the community and learn how to fix the icon yourself and submit 
it to the svn repository?
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Re: [opensuse] Firefox on AMD64 X2

2007-05-11 Thread Ken Jennings
On Friday 2007-05-11 22:13, Kenneth Schneider wrote:
> On Sat, 2007-05-12 at 10:31 +1000, George Osvald wrote:
> > I use to favour Firefox for my web browsing. Recently I upgraded my
> > computer to AMD core duo processor and a 64 bit version of Firefox does
> > not work properly. Java does not work, flash animations fail and the
> > major problem is that when I try to access HTTPS servers. I get this
> > message:
> >
> > The connection was reset
> > The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
> > *   The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a
> > few moments.
> >  *   If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network
> >   connection.
> > *   If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make
> > sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.
> >
> > I can still access the same page with OPERA without any trouble.
>
> You must be fairly new to the list. This has been covered many times,
> the 64bit version of Firefox does not yet have 64bit plugins for java
> and flash. You will need to install the 32bit version of Firefox for
> them to work.

I'm running 10.2 on AMD 64 X2 4600+ and see the same frustrating reset 
connections to many HTTPS sites in Firefox.  Are plug-ins the reason for this 
behavior? 
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Re: [opensuse] How to configure the text displayed in the StarWars screen saver?

2007-05-10 Thread Ken Jennings
On Thursday 2007-05-10 02:37, M Harris wrote:
> On Thursday 10 May 2007 01:24, M Harris wrote:
> > 1) Enter the Control Center suse-->control center
> > 2) Appearance & Themes, Screen Saver, Banners & Pictures,
> > StarWars 3) click Setup
> > 4) enter the file name in the Text Program field
> > If you click the button to the right you can select the
> > file from a dialog The field can accept a program, a file name, or a
> > URL... this is configurable from the Advanced tab.
> > 5) test and apply
>
>   ... and if that doesn't work,
>
>   ... remember that everything in linux is a file. The StarWars 
> screensaver
> is configured for xscreensaver in:
>
>   /etc/xscreensaver/starwars.xml

Thanks!  If I had only know where it was...

> This is just a text file... edit it to your hearts content with your
> favorite editor... if you're a real man you'll use  vi  , otherwise you'll
> use whatever whimpy editor you like...   joe... emacs...;-P

You mean someone wasted their time writing text editors other than vi ?

It appears this XML file just controls the configuration of the screen saver 
setup dialog itself, not the actual screen saver.  This is curious:  The Text 
Program control is commented out in the XML file:



That explains why the control isn't there.  I didn't screw with it, so why is 
it commented out?

I uncommented it and now the widget appears on the setup dialog. The screen 
blanker wouldn't work with  just the name of the text file.  The message 
scrolled by indicates the shell tried and failed to execute the file.  So, 
entering " cat nameofmyfile " instead works fine.

Thanks.
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Re: [opensuse] How to configure the text displayed in the StarWars screen saver?

2007-05-10 Thread Ken Jennings
On Thursday 2007-05-10 02:24, M Harris wrote:
> On Wednesday 09 May 2007 23:31, Ken Jennings wrote:
> > I recall in a previous version of Suse I could control the text to
> > display in the StarWars screen saver.  (I have a file with the intros to
> > all six movies.)  Can't seem to figure out how to do it now.
>
>   1) Enter the Control Center suse-->control center
>   2) Appearance & Themes, Screen Saver, Banners & Pictures, StarWars
>   3) click Setup
>   4) enter the file name in the Text Program field
>   If you click the button to the right you can select the file 
> from a
> dialog The field can accept a program, a file name, or a URL... this is
> configurable from the Advanced tab.

If it were that easy I wouldn't have been asking.  There is no "Text Program" 
widget control on that dialog.  I resized it too, in case it was a layout 
issue.  There is no Advanced Tab either.  There is an "Advanced Options" on 
the main screen saver control panel dialog which only controls the screen 
locking and priority for the blankers.

http://www.kenjennings.cc/pic/swconfig.png (284K)

>   5) test and apply
>
>   Have lots of fun!

Still working on that part.
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[opensuse] How to configure the text displayed in the StarWars screen saver?

2007-05-09 Thread Ken Jennings
I recall in a previous version of Suse I could control the text to display in 
the StarWars screen saver.  (I have a file with the intros to all six 
movies.)  Can't seem to figure out how to do it now.  The screen saver 
config for KDE doesn't appear to have any visible means of specifying a file 
or pasting text.  It is kinda boring looking at the hostname, OS version and 
uptime.

I searched several ways on Google and the KDE web sites and I can't find 
anything about this. I have openSuse 10.2 installed from DVD.  I'm  trying to 
configure the Starwars screen saver using the KDE desktop config/KXSConfig.

Thanks,
Ken.
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Re: [opensuse] Chameleon and Suse Menu

2007-04-30 Thread Ken Jennings
On Monday 2007-04-30 16:27, David Gregg wrote:
[...]
> also the top of the suse menu doesn't display properly, sorta like the
> graphics show up fuzzy with streaks through it... this also doesn't
> happen when using the kde menu...this same streaky fuzzyness also
> shows up just prior to the gui loading up, so I'm not sure if the
> problem is related, nor do I know how to take a screenshot or if it's
> even possible at that point in the boot process.
[...]

I'm not sure I'm seeing exactly the same thing.  ( I'm on 10.2  X86_64 and 
using nvidia card/drivers.)  When most KDE applications open, for a fraction 
of a second the window content is just horizontal lines and random parts 
graphics from other windows.  Then (I guess) the application redraws its 
display at startup and then everything looks OK.  Kuickshow is the only 
exception -- it can't display pictures, because it always shows the random 
graphics garbage, forever.

Thanks,
Ken Jennings.
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Re: [opensuse] Adding biometric security to a computer

2007-03-24 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-03-24 19:08, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> The Saturday 2007-03-24 at 12:47 -0800, John Andersen wrote:
> > > In my country, we have official ID cards, so the photo is not
> > > necessary. Plus, in a pinch, you can discard the card: the tugs can not
> > > find the owner and force him/her to give away the pin. For hold-ups.
> >
> > Awe come on Carlos, how many times do they ask you to
> > whip out your Official ID to prove you are Carlos when you stop
> > in for a quick bite to eat of gas up the car?
>
> Depends... some places have that policy, specially supermarkets.

Instead of a signature my credit cards all say PHOTO ID CHECK REQUIRED in the 
signature block.  When I did that a few years ago I was surprised at how many 
clerks wouldn't ask.  Since then, most businesses have changed their 
practices and now I'm surprised at the few that do not ask.
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Re: [opensuse] Adding biometric security to a computer

2007-03-24 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 2007-03-24 11:43, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> The Saturday 2007-03-24 at 09:00 -0500, Rajko M. wrote:
> > 2) Is there any bank that is asking for such identification for credit
> > cards? There will be no so much problems with stolen identities if they
> > would.
>
> I read somewhere that there are, yes; as an experiment, I think. Perhaps I
> read about it on the ieee Spectrum.

I know of a few universities that have moved to fingerprint identification for 
students.  The reader network is established in the libraries, cafeterias, 
snack bars book stores, and a growing number of establishments off campus.  
The students don't need their ID cards to check out books, get fed on campus, 
and they don't need to carry cash for purchases.
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Re: [opensuse] Need explanation - question 1

2007-03-06 Thread Ken Jennings
On Friday 2006-12-01 15:52, usr wrote:
> ...
> I gave 10.2  a 3GB partition for /
>
> I also made separate partitions for /tmp, /var, and /home, each 10GB in
> size. I went to update 10.2 and was warned that the / partition is 97%
> full.

/tmp,  /var, and /home don't necessarily have a lot of stuff in them, 
especially after a fresh install.

Big directories include /usr and /opt depending on what packages you have 
installed.  Since you did not make separate volumes for those locations 
everything in /usr and /opt is on the same device as root (or / ).  

I have effectively the same setup.  With just about everything worth 
installing (in x86_64) from the 10.2 DVD my root ( / ) occupies quite a bit 
of space:

FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/hda5  22G   11G  9.7G  54% /


(P.S.  Set your computer's clock.)
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Re: [opensuse] MSworks (huh!)

2007-02-22 Thread Ken Jennings
On Thursday 2007-02-22 21:13, Robert Lewis wrote:
> Any recommendations for how to view a
> *WPS  *MS Works Text Document
> on Linux.  ...

Do you know what version of Works was used?  Even Works won't often load 
other, older versions of Works file.  If you can get the sender to use Works 
to export in another format that should help. (Or get the person to start 
using OpenOffice.)

I've heard a rumor that Abiword may have some success getting something out of 
some versions of Works files.
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Re: [opensuse] tall PNG images don't load in Firefox

2007-02-16 Thread Ken Jennings
On Friday 2007-02-16 05:18, Pete Connolly wrote:
> On Friday 16 February 2007 09:57:03 Dave Howorth wrote:
> > I have a problem with loading some PNG images in Firefox. The images are
> > generated using GD and most of the images load OK, but some don't. As
> > near as I can tell, it is tall (or maybe just big?) images that won't
> > load. If I just load the PNG by itself, I see a message saying that the
> > image cannot be displayed because it contains errors. I can successfully
> > display these images with either xv or gimp and neither complains of any
> > irregularities.

Can you try loading the images and re-saving them using gimp?  Sometimes that 
cleans up any irregularities in image formats.

> >  I put one of the files at
> >  >ng
> >
> >>. It's 190 kB and 820x36564 pixels.
[...]
> >
> > Has anybody else come across this problem? Do any of you using Firefox 2
> > see the problem?
>
> Strange.  Firefox for Linux 2.0.0.2Pre says "The image
> “http://www.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk/dhoworth/f208c50af8a68669c364c22849f1d1de.png
>” cannot be displayed, because it contains errors.".  
[...] 

Same thing here in firefox 2.0.0.2pre running on Suse 10.2 x86_64. (2G of RAM)  
Also, I clicked on the link in KMail and expected it to launch Konqueror.  
Instead it launched Kuickshow which complained that is was "unable to load 
the image...Perhaps the file format is unsupported or your lmlib is not 
installed properly."  Possibly the problem.  Or not.  Remarkably, if I put 
the link directly into Konqueror the picture loads.  "P00720 Enterobacteria 
phage T4 (164) Lysozyme..."  And a long list of what appears to be horizontal 
bar charts in different shades of blue, green, and red.
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Re: [opensuse] tar

2007-01-21 Thread Ken Jennings
On Sunday 21 January 2007 20:04, John Meyer wrote:
> And while we're at it, let's see what the -9 does:
>
> before adding -9 to the script:
> total 44523
> -rw-r--r-- 1 jmeyer users 44065843 2007-01-21 18:01 Pictures.tar.gz
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/backups> backupfiles.sh
> After adding -9
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/backups> ls -al
> total 44528
> -rw-r--r--  1 jmeyer users 44066020 2007-01-21 18:01 Pictures.tar.gz

Photos/graphics data often compresses poorly.  Most image formats already 
include some kind of compression, so they are not likely to compress any 
further.  Text and object files tend to compress a little better.

Here's what the man page says about the gzip compression levels:

-# --fast --best
Regulate the speed of compression using the specified digit #, where -1 or 
--fast indicates the fastest compression  method  (less  compression)  and -9 
or --best indicates the slowest compression method (best compression). The 
default compression level is -6 (that is, biased towards high compression at 
expense of speed).

This is a directory containing a lot of source code compressed with various 
gzip compression levels:

-rw-r--r--  1 kenjen users 247813 2007-01-21 21:46 csv1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 kenjen users 185071 2007-01-21 21:46 csv6.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 kenjen users 182500 2007-01-21 21:41 csv9.tar.gz
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Re: [opensuse] Getting rid of "Marching Penguins"

2007-01-01 Thread Ken Jennings
On Sunday 31 December 2006 20:05, Carlos E. R. wrote:
> The Sunday 2006-12-31 at 16:09 -0800, Kai Ponte wrote:
> > Server database. When determining if results were found, I put a default
> > "not found" message: "No results found - Bummer."
> >
> > When I gave a demo, the "bummer" message came up, as I had forgotten to
> > remove it. I instantly apologized and told the administrative staff I'd
> > remove the message. They told me to leave it in, as they "needed some
> > humor in the department."
>
> Programmers seem to have a "funny" sense of humour. I remember reading a
> report about a book in the old PC Magazine; I don't remember if it was
> undocumented windows or undocumented dos. It seems a programmer had to put
> a goto statement in the code and named the label something like
> "icantbelieveihadtouseagotostatement" or some thing like that ;-)

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away we had a controller program for a 
in-house database in the Air Force that had to clean itself up nicely if the 
rest of the application was signalled to die.  It was an independent process 
not related as parent or child, but logically considered superior to the 
applications.  The function to do this located the controller process, put 
the PID in a variable called "daBoss", and issued   kill( daBoss, ...);  It 
was very popular during the code review.
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Re: [opensuse] Getting rid of "Marching Penguins"

2006-12-30 Thread Ken Jennings
On Saturday 30 December 2006 22:32, Hubertus A. Haniel wrote:
> Kai Ponte wrote:
> > On Saturday 30 December 2006 18:07, James Knott wrote:
> >> Joe Morris (NTM) wrote:
> >>> James Knott wrote:
>  Whenever I boot my notebook computer, after installing 10.2, I get
>  those "Marching Penguins".
> >>>
> >>> The screen is programmed to be randomly shown.
> >>>
>  While they may have been cute around Christmas,
>  they're beginning to wear thin.  Is there any simple way to get rid of
>  them?
[...]
>
>  Since I have installed 10.2 on my
> machine I have seen nothing else but the X-mas screen (OK It has only
> been 4 days). I have never seen the "X-mas egg" on the betas I was
> running. - 

I recall seeing the Christmas splash on several older versions at various 
times.   

> I guess the easiest way to disable it would be to put grub 
> into text mode or replace the /boot/message stuff (cpio archive) but as
> I don't intend to reboot this machine as often i will just live with it.

That's what I did for several servers that don't have monitors connected

> - I guess a simple flag or an alternative /boot/message file which is
> more enterprise like on the install media would be a nice option to stop
> these arguments.


...but for my own system I'd like to see the glitz more often.  If there a way 
to explicitly turn on the Christmas display?  I looked in my /boot and there 
are no *.xpm  or  *.xpm.gz files per the previously posted web page 
directions. Where does SuSE keep the Christmas boot screen?
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Re: [opensuse] Re: memories?

2006-12-26 Thread Ken Jennings
On Wednesday 27 December 2006 00:33, Tom Patton wrote:
> Hey, thanks for the reminder, I just found it in my 9.3, showing the
> kids now.
> Does anyone remember Lisa the analyst?  That'll blow the kids minds!
> Or was it Elsie...durn can't remember now!

I think it was called  "Eliza."
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Re: [opensuse] Re: [opensuse-announce] openSUSE 10.2 is done

2006-12-06 Thread Ken Jennings
On Wednesday 06 December 2006 04:55, Roger Oberholtzer wrote:
> On Wed, 2006-12-06 at 10:40 +0100, Marcus Meissner wrote:

> > Yes. I suspect 80%-90% of the SUSE box manuals never were opened and
> > just discard or burned, which is pretty much a waste.
>
> I wonder... I think people do look. If they find something that they
> think they need to know is something else. Perhaps it is that mostly men
> buy Linux? And, us men are notorious for skipping manuals at all cost.
> But we like for them to be present. So we can boast that we got it
> working without the manuals. Their non-use is a critical part of the
> process. They must be present, if not actually used.

Here, the last Admin book included in the box looks like a dog chewed it.  
I've almost never opened any User manual which is still being included in the 
box.

Chances are, when you need help the most is when you're trying to figure out 
why something is not working -- like internet connectivity, or why the system 
doesn't recognize the DVD.  It's very tough to google linux issues when 
there's no internet available.  And it's tough to read a manual on the disc 
when the drive isn't recognized.  Both have happened here.

Fortunately, I now have the luxury of multiple computers, so I can usually get 
information via another method.   I'd still like to see the Admin guide 
printed.  In exchange the User Guide could be reduced to a pamphlet, ("SUSE 
Startup For Dummies"), or as a big fold-out poster like the ones Dell 
includes with their hardware.
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Re: [opensuse] Dell Computer with Suse 10.1

2006-11-30 Thread Ken Jennings
On Thursday 30 November 2006 23:17, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
...
>
> Some years ago I wanted a keyboard for a non-IBM computer which had the
> same solidity and tactile feel.  I researched and purchased a Northgate
> keyboard. The base was metal, not plastic, it was heavy, it had the tactile
> feel, and it had two other things I wanted: I could switch the positions of
> the alt and ctrl keys and - using dip switches in the base - tell it which
> keys were which, and it had the function keys down the left side of the
> keyboard and the across the top.
>
> Unfortunately, after many good years of service the keyboard doesn't work
> properly anymore.  I eventually had to place an adapter to go from old
> style keyboard port to ps/2 style keyboard port, but that didn't help.
>
> I would love to get another keyboard like that again for my main desktop
> workstation.

I remember having a Northgate Omnikey for an Amiga 2000.  I kick myself now 
for giving the keyboard away with the computer.

These people make a keyboard that appears to be 99.9% physically similar to 
the clickity-click Northgate keyboards:
http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/menu.htm

These people fix the Northgate keyboards if you've managed to break it:
http://www.northgate-keyboard-repair.com/

This company has cables and covers for the Northgate keyboards:
http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/Nehemiah/0043.html
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Re: [opensuse] Ballmer: Linux users owe Microsoft

2006-11-19 Thread Ken Jennings
On Sunday 19 November 2006 06:39, John Andersen wrote:
> On Sunday 19 November 2006 02:05, Anders Johansson wrote:
> > On Sunday 19 November 2006 06:16, M Harris wrote:
> > >   And then there was BASIC... basically stolen also... Billy Gates
> > > inventing BASIC is almost as laughable as ALGORE inventing the
> > > internet... now that I think of it... BASIC is the *only* program Billy
> > > ever "wrote"   hmmm.
> >
> > The difference of course is that Gore never claimed to have invented the
> > Internet, merely that he acted in his role as senator to push through the
> > financing to make it happen - which is true
> >
> > The invention claim is just the right wing spin to make him look stupid -
> > please stop propagating it
>
> http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp

Whoever wrote that page is just engaging in left wing spin to split hairs and 
make Gore look smart.

The article tries to equate Gore's alleged motivating force behind the 
internet with Eisenhower's push for the interstate system.  The difference is 
Eisenhower had already seen an existing highway system in Germany and the 
bills and legislation pushed in the US for the highway system were 
specifically to meet the direct goal of building high speed, highway system.
 
Here's Al Gore's quote, "During my service in the United States Congress, I 
took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving 
forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our 
country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our 
educational system."

HE says HE took the initiative in creating the Internet. He was rightfully 
derided for trying to elevate himself in importance to the internet by the 
predominately left-wing press which summarized his statement as, "inventing".

He's telling us to believe he could see the end result of hundreds of little 
bills, pork projects, defense appropriations, and research requests while he 
was in congress, and that he is responsible for these myriad efforts that 
helped create the internet.  However, if you read the whole page, it also 
admits, "many of the components of today's Internet came into being well 
before Gore's first term in Congress began in 1977."

Self promotion is what politicians do.  There are hundreds of politicians who 
happend to vote the same on bills as Al Gore without knowing what they were 
doing, like Al Gore. The difference is he tried to represent his history as 
something that it was not, and so was publically spanked for it.
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Re: [opensuse] Re: [SLE] Red Hat's take:

2006-11-10 Thread Ken Jennings
On Friday 10 November 2006 15:42, Patrick Shanahan wrote:
> * James Knott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [11-10-06 13:22]:
> > Also, CP/M was around before the Trash-80.  ;-)
>
> Does a VIC-20 count??

I suppose it can count up to $ff before using multi-byte math.
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