RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

And we’ll pay him $195K/year.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQPXXHUilU  this is pretty funny and disturbing 
video!

This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything…its just  
a job he is going for…how do these people get into such roles…

Anthony
Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!
http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/

--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is 
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you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is 
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From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:48 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

What I don’t understand is that if you’re in a built up area, why they don’t 
just install Fibre to the Home.

Copper might do for the short term, but it is expensive to maintain and has all 
sorts of issues like crosstalk/interference, susceptibility to water etc. Fibre 
does not have those issues and fibre can last 60 years. Fibre can also give a 
consistent speed up to 50 kilometres from the node as opposed to copper that 
degrades significantly after 2 or 3 kilometres. Copper will also max out 
probably around the 200Mbps – 300Mbps mark from a theoretical maximum around 
1Gbps. Other countries are talking about 10Gbps and they have achieved Petabyte 
transmission speeds in the labs.

As David rightly pointed out, if you want to go to even higher speeds, they 
will need to replace the fibre with even faster fibre and change the technology 
at the end points, but once it is done properly once, those changes won’t be as 
difficult to achieve.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:28 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Isn't that really the point of the NBN?  To try to make internet access more 
available?  I have no problem with people in the middle of nowhere getting it 
first because they have few options.  I might complain about being stuck with 
optus but I still get 20Mb/s down and I think 0.25 up.  I know people in outer 
suburbs that just can't get it at all.  I'm not talking rural.  Sure it means I 
don't get my FTTH in the foreseeable future but it is the fair option.

The fibre part of this whole argument is, strictly speaking, secondary.  Making 
internet access available to all for a reasonable cost is more important.  On 
that note, charging $5000 to get that access isn't really the same thing.  For 
many, you may as well say they can't have it.

David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

 have it. If, however, I lived out the back of Ballarat, no 
problems.

 

As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can’t see it actually being 
delivered.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:  <http://www.sqldownunder.com/> www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>  
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com> ] 
On Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM


To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I wouldn’t count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get that 
many “fridges” installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in three years 
sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done, then the fibre has 
to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that is done on an ad-hoc, 
one house here, one house there, not only is it terribly unproductive, but you 
can expect a whole lot of council backlash against the interruption to 
pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc. Seriously, you should try to get 
Telstra to run you some cable today and see what the costs are and how long it 
takes: 

 

Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>  
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:  <http://www.sqldownunder.com/> www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>  
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum some 
years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a politician 
appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people" would vote for 
the president.

 

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so without 
all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a decision.

 

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of 
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

 

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option now 
is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a 
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy mailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> > wrote:

Here’s a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking at 
the forest.

 

 

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[anthonyatsmallbiz]

lking rural.  Sure it means I 
don't get my FTTH in the foreseeable future but it is the fair option.

 

The fibre part of this whole argument is, strictly speaking, secondary.  Making 
internet access available to all for a reasonable cost is more important.  On 
that note, charging $5000 to get that access isn't really the same thing.  For 
many, you may as well say they can't have it.




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 15:13, GregAtGregLowDotCom  wrote:

But what’s the alternative Bill? Wait for the NBN? 

 

We’re not even on the “we’ll think about starting within 3 years” map. And all 
they keep doing with the current targets is downgrading them. So what chance do 
we have of seeing it in anything like a reasonable timeframe?

 

I’m in an area where they’d make a lot of money by rolling it out. So by their 
logic, we can’t have it. If, however, I lived out the back of Ballarat, no 
problems.

 

As I said, conceptually I love the idea. I just can’t see it actually being 
delivered.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:  <http://www.sqldownunder.com/> www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill McCarthy
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 3:06 PM


To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I wouldn’t count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get that 
many “fridges” installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in three years 
sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done, then the fibre has 
to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that is done on an ad-hoc, 
one house here, one house there, not only is it terribly unproductive, but you 
can expect a whole lot of council backlash against the interruption to 
pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc. Seriously, you should try to get 
Telstra to run you some cable today and see what the costs are and how long it 
takes: 

 

Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:  <http://www.sqldownunder.com/> www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum some 
years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a politician 
appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people" would vote for 
the president.

 

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so without 
all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a decision.

 

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of 
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

 

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option now 
is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a 
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy  
wrote:

Here’s a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking at 
the forest.

 

 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament
House or is that just me..

I mean the comedic value alone is worth it

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:

> Well said…I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
> him…mmm..that could bring a change!
>
> ** **
>
> Anthony
>
> Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!
>
> http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/*
> ***
>
>
>
> --
> NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
> privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication
> is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
> by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing
> it. (*13POrtC*)
>
> ---
> 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  'ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');> 
> [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 'ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com');>]
> *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Wow, he didn’t even know what the policies of his party were. I think I
> know them better than he does!
>
> ** **
>
> What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan
>
> “Er, the first one is stop the boats”
>
> What are the other 5 points?
>
> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>
> No, the other 5 points?
>
> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>
> ** **
>
> He should have said, well, so it’s a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to
> stop the boats.
>
> ** **
>
> What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.
>
> ** **
>
> Are these people worth $5? That’s how much our first preference vote is
> worth together for the upper and lower house. I don’t think they’re worth
> it. Mine isn’t going to Liberal or Labor. I’m finding someone closer to
> what I believe in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I
> want in. Why reward such mediocrity?
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Full interview of Jaymes Diaz, Liberal Candidate for 
> Greenway
> this is pretty funny and disturbing video!
>
> ** **
>
> This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything…its
> just  a job he is going for…how do these people get into such roles…
>
>

-- 
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[Joseph Cooney]

I like the 'compile for all' idea. I guess you can do that with portable
class librariesa bit. But it could be much much much better than that.

Step 1. - > buy MONOnot the product, the company
Step 2. -> Buy/build something that lets you suck in an iOS project or
Android project, convert it to MONO, and re-target it on all the platforms,
including windows phone
Step 3. -> every time something ships on iOS/Android it ships for WP8 and
maybe Win8 too

we could call it 'write once, run anywhere'.


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Scott Barnes wrote:

> Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc usual
> rants.. but in both cases I was also asked "How would you fix all of this"
> style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual response
> to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would navigate
> out of this should you be "In charge" of it all?
>
> - Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment
> strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of
> Namespace or "Adopt HTML5 or go away" thinking, instead take a page out of
> the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile
> for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of
> developers executing on their "Apps" (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres
> really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than
> touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting...
>
> - Design <-> Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out
> and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's
> funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by
> abstracting designers further away from the developer <-> designer
> workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem
> into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming).
> I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products
> from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on.
>
> Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could
> unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft
> ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from
> Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its "adopt win8
> or get lost" mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming
> ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting
> whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through
> Win8 learning(s)).
>
> Agree? have better idea?
>
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.riagenic.com
>



-- 

w: http://jcooney.net
t: @josephcooney

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[Scott Barnes]

Unity3d does just that today its scary how close they are from achieving
the actual true cross platform write once use everywhere approach .. And it
uses mono in the way u describe! :)

When I say close I mean their 2d GUI isn't as ready as it could be but
 NoesisGUI framework has also found a way to combine xaml with mono inside
unity3d

So I feel like the pieces are there just not purpose built for app dev
although the "SDK" is good enough ..


On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, Joseph Cooney wrote:

> I like the 'compile for all' idea. I guess you can do that with portable
> class librariesa bit. But it could be much much much better than that.
>
> Step 1. - > buy MONOnot the product, the company
> Step 2. -> Buy/build something that lets you suck in an iOS project or
> Android project, convert it to MONO, and re-target it on all the platforms,
> including windows phone
> Step 3. -> every time something ships on iOS/Android it ships for WP8 and
> maybe Win8 too
>
> we could call it 'write once, run anywhere'.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Scott Barnes 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc usual
>> rants.. but in both cases I was also asked "How would you fix all of this"
>> style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual response
>> to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would navigate
>> out of this should you be "In charge" of it all?
>>
>> - Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment
>> strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of
>> Namespace or "Adopt HTML5 or go away" thinking, instead take a page out of
>> the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile
>> for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of
>> developers executing on their "Apps" (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres
>> really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than
>> touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting...
>>
>> - Design <-> Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out
>> and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's
>> funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by
>> abstracting designers further away from the developer <-> designer
>> workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem
>> into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming).
>> I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products
>> from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on.
>>
>> Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could
>> unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft
>> ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from
>> Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its "adopt win8
>> or get lost" mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming
>> ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting
>> whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through
>> Win8 learning(s)).
>>
>> Agree? have better idea?
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Regards,
>> Scott Barnes
>> http://www.riagenic.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> w: http://jcooney.net
> t: @josephcooney
>


-- 
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
Queenslanders.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament
House or is that just me..

 

I mean the comedic value alone is worth it 

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:

Well said.I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
him.mmm..that could bring a change!

 

Anthony

Melbourne StuffUps.learn from others, share with others!

http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/



--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
strictly prohibited. 
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing
it. (*13POrtC*)

--- 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com

[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 ] On
Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

 

Wow, he didn't even know what the policies of his party were. I think I know
them better than he does!

 

What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan

"Er, the first one is stop the boats"

What are the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

No, the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

 

He should have said, well, so it's a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to
stop the boats.

 

What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.

 

Are these people worth $5? That's how much our first preference vote is
worth together for the upper and lower house. I don't think they're worth
it. Mine isn't going to Liberal or Labor. I'm finding someone closer to what
I believe in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I want
in. Why reward such mediocrity?

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of
anthonyatsmall...@mail.com  
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

  Full interview of Jaymes Diaz,
Liberal Candidate for Greenway  this is pretty funny and disturbing video!

 

This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything.its
just  a job he is going for.how do these people get into such roles.



-- 
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[David Connors]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Scott Barnes wrote:

> Unity3d does just that today its scary how close they are from achieving
> the actual true cross platform write once use everywhere approach .. And it
> uses mono in the way u describe! :)


Seen their actual deployment figures?

100 Unity-based apps are deployed *per second*.

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[David Connors]

On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Joseph Cooney wrote:

> I like the 'compile for all' idea. I guess you can do that with portable
> class librariesa bit. But it could be much much much better than that.
>
> Step 1. - > buy MONOnot the product, the company
> Step 2. -> Buy/build something that lets you suck in an iOS project or
> Android project, convert it to MONO, and re-target it on all the platforms,
> including windows phone
> Step 3. -> every time something ships on iOS/Android it ships for WP8 and
> maybe Win8 too
>
> we could call it 'write once, run anywhere'.
>

Hey! That's my idea! I was going to sell it to elop get get rich.

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Paul Evrat]

Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If
business isn't doing well we can't afford anything else .. 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
Queenslanders.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament
House or is that just me..

 

I mean the comedic value alone is worth it 

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:

Well said.I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
him.mmm..that could bring a change!

 

Anthony

Melbourne StuffUps.learn from others, share with others!

http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/



--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
strictly prohibited. 
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing
it. (*13POrtC*)

--- 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com

[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 ] On
Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

 

Wow, he didn't even know what the policies of his party were. I think I know
them better than he does!

 

What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan

"Er, the first one is stop the boats"

What are the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

No, the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

 

He should have said, well, so it's a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to
stop the boats.

 

What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.

 

Are these people worth $5? That's how much our first preference vote is
worth together for the upper and lower house. I don't think they're worth
it. Mine isn't going to Liberal or Labor. I'm finding someone closer to what
I believe in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I want
in. Why reward such mediocrity?

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

  Full interview of Jaymes Diaz,
Liberal Candidate for Greenway  this is pretty funny and disturbing video!

 

This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything.its
just  a job he is going for.how do these people get into such roles.



-- 
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6636 - Release Date: 09/03/13

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[Scott Barnes]

I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't
surprise me ..

Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but
since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably
create more share for unity

Good news for us C# code poets is that there is a safe haven for the kind
of code we write should Microsoft continue to push their HTML5... Err .. I
mean Internet Explorer only agendas :)

As if there is one market who have zero patience for platform stupidity
it's gaming and we may very well adopt their choices down the road given
they have no time to wait out companies like Adobe and Microsoft .

I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own
gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire
(which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind
in adoption?

On Thursday, September 5, 2013, David Connors wrote:

>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Scott Barnes 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> Unity3d does just that today its scary how close they are from achieving
>> the actual true cross platform write once use everywhere approach .. And it
>> uses mono in the way u describe! :)
>
>
> Seen their actual deployment figures?
>
> 100 Unity-based apps are deployed *per second*.
>
>

-- 
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[Scott Barnes]

I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't
surprise me ..

Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but
since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably
create more share for unity

Good news for us C# code poets is that there is a safe haven for the kind
of code we write should Microsoft continue to push their HTML5... Err .. I
mean Internet Explorer only agendas :)

As if there is one market who have zero patience for platform stupidity
it's gaming and we may very well adopt their choices down the road given
they have no time to wait out companies like Adobe and Microsoft .

I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own
gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire
(which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind
in adoption?

On Thursday, September 5, 2013, David Connors wrote:

>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:50 PM, Scott Barnes 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> Unity3d does just that today its scary how close they are from achieving
>> the actual true cross platform write once use everywhere approach .. And it
>> uses mono in the way u describe! :)
>
>
> Seen their actual deployment figures?
>
> 100 Unity-based apps are deployed *per second*.
>
>

-- 
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[David Connors]

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Scott Barnes  wrote:

> I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't
> surprise me ..
>
> Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but
> since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably
> create more share for unity
>

[ ... ]


> I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own
> gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire
> (which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind
> in adoption?
>

I thought the funding figures for Xamarin were interesting. They have 6 mil
in cash but also got a recent funding round of 16 mil. I don't know what
the equity dilution was for that 16 mil nor why you need it if you cash
spend the cash you have but ... they are a very strategic asset for a
number of companies. I have no idea why no one has bought them yet. As for
doubting Xamarin or Unity would sell ... every man has his price. Spending
500 mil on Xamarin would get MS a lot better return than 7bln for the
bottom half of Nokia's corpse.

As for XNA ... it is irrelevant. YOu sould have to have rocks in your head
to invest in it. Great idea for 2001 but in 2013 it would cripple your
revenue as a game dev. Unity gives you one code based across
PC/iTard/Android and apparently Sony is on board in a big way for indie
games on the PS4.

David.

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[Andrew McGrath]

My understanding is that Unity3D doesn't let you produce a web client. So 
we built our own to do web & native from the one codebase.
Tried to talk to Xamarin about licensing just their compiler to integrate 
into the web-based IDE we have built, but they stopped talking about having 
an OEM agreement once they saw some screenshots. (Thought I should state 
that in case anyone else is thinking of heading down that path)
So the plan now is to parse C# to Objective-C for iOS and to Java for 
Androidunless another option pops up.

Perhaps a scripting language on top of C# eventually too, so enable 
part-time programmers to participate toolooks like there might be a 
scriptcs session this Sunday at Microsoft office in Brisbane - so will be 
interesting to see where others are at.
Andrew


From: "David Connors" 
Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:47 AM
To: "ozDotNet" 
Subject: Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Scott Barnes  
wrote:
  I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't 
surprise me ..
Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but 
since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably 
create more share for unity   
[ ... ] I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their 
own gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of 
acquire (which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way 
behind in adoption?   
I thought the funding figures for Xamarin were interesting. They have 6 mil 
in cash but also got a recent funding round of 16 mil. I don't know what 
the equity dilution was for that 16 mil nor why you need it if you cash 
spend the cash you have but ... they are a very strategic asset for a 
number of companies. I have no idea why no one has bought them yet. As for 
doubting Xamarin or Unity would sell ... every man has his price. Spending 
500 mil on Xamarin would get MS a lot better return than 7bln for the 
bottom half of Nokia's corpse.
As for XNA ... it is irrelevant. YOu sould have to have rocks in your head 
to invest in it. Great idea for 2001 but in 2013 it would cripple your 
revenue as a game dev. Unity gives you one code based across 
PC/iTard/Android and apparently Sony is on board in a big way for indie 
games on the PS4.   
David. 

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive's policy platform isn't 
necessarily the best one.

Pro "free market" (as opposed to "pro-business) is what's generally best for 
consumers (even though it's not good for an individual business), whereas 
business people tend to become "rent seekers" lobbying for favours for their 
industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in the Wealth of 
Nations, and nothing's changed.

Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who's 
"pro-business" attitude didn't really extend to making life better for the 
general population.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If 
business isn't doing well we can't afford anything else ..

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were 
Queenslanders.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament 
House or is that just me..

I mean the comedic value alone is worth it

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:
Well said...I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in 
him...mmm..that could bring a change!

Anthony
Melbourne StuffUps...learn from others, share with others!
http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/

--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is 
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is 
strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by 
reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. 
(*13POrtC*)
---

From: 
ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
 On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited





Wow, he didn't even know what the policies of his party were. I think I know 
them better than he does!



What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan

"Er, the first one is stop the boats"

What are the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

No, the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"



He should have said, well, so it's a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to stop 
the boats.



What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.



Are these people worth $5? That's how much our first preference vote is worth 
together for the upper and lower house. I don't think they're worth it. Mine 
isn't going to Liberal or Labor. I'm finding someone closer to what I believe 
in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I want in. Why 
reward such mediocrity?





From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of 
anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited



Full interview of Jaymes Diaz, Liberal Candidate for 
Greenway  this is pretty funny and 
disturbing video!



This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything...its just 
 a job he is going for...how do these people get into such roles...


--
---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6636 - Release Date: 09/03/13

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[Scott Barnes]

You can produce a web client as in their Unity Player for the web which has
around 220million+ installs which is about 50% of Silverlight had in
version 3.0 peak data (after we of course inflated the numbers by enticing
China to install Silverlight on internet cafe computers blah blah).
Basically the number isn't 98% but thats not important what is important is
that users will install if the content is worth it (always is the core
principle behind ubiquity).

Xamarin Studio is what I actually use to write code for Unity on my Mac
installs, and its actually pretty good (its obviously an extension on
MonoDevelop IDE). I don't see an issue with Xamarin per say except when you
do any "iTard" development etc where you're still bound to the whole Mac UI
separation approach to coding (which feels clumsy to develop against). I'd
prefer to have seen teh Xamarin guys find a way to inject a LLVM into the
equation and remove alot of Apple's nonsense from the equation.

I've bee using Unity3D for Enterprise solution that involves Stockpile
management for mine sites and i'm treating the entire thing as an SDK not
so much a gaming strategy, the core thing for me was always around 2D UI's
with a bit of 3D mixed in (effects etc).

If you look at http://www.noesisengine.com they have a prefab (plugin) for
Unity3D which lets you combine XAML + C# that gets deployed across all
devices except -- do not laugh to hard -- Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
I've also found that if you approach your XAML without relying to heavily
on a global Resource Dictionary you can also reuse your XAML inside WPF,
Silverlight and Win8 codebase as well (just code-behinds / viewmodels /
insert your flavors here) vary.

As for investing in XNA, I never really got into XNA as i felt it was a lot
of work for little gain but I raised it to simply outline that if you take
XNA, WPF, Silverlight off the table and all you replace it with is
HTML5/C++ and Windows8 Only development... it jsut leaves you asking a
simple question "What is it you are actually trying to achieve ...and what
are your backup plans should this brilliant strategy fail..."

As without those answers Microsoft can buy all the Nokia's they want in the
world but all data internal/external point to the reality of "No developer,
No party... or...developers, developers,developers and designers" :)


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:08 AM, Andrew McGrath <
andrew.mcgr...@workslink.com.au> wrote:

> My understanding is that Unity3D doesn't let you produce a web client. So
> we built our own to do web & native from the one codebase.
>
> Tried to talk to Xamarin about licensing just their compiler to integrate
> into the web-based IDE we have built, but they stopped talking about having
> an OEM agreement once they saw some screenshots. (Thought I should state
> that in case anyone else is thinking of heading down that path)
>
> So the plan now is to parse C# to Objective-C for iOS and to Java for
> Androidunless another option pops up.
>
> Perhaps a scripting language on top of C# eventually too, so enable
> part-time programmers to participate toolooks like there might be a
> scriptcs session this Sunday at Microsoft office in Brisbane - so will be
> interesting to see where others are at.
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> *From*: "David Connors" 
> *Sent*: Thursday, September 05, 2013 8:47 AM
> *To*: "ozDotNet" 
> *Subject*: Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Scott Barnes wrote:
>
>> I had not known that stat but based on their other stats it doesn't
>> surprise me ..
>>
>> Until now Flash has been a strong force in the casual gaming scene but
>> since adobe announced its discontinuing work on this it will probably
>> create more share for unity
>>
>
> [ ... ]
>
>
>> I will say this though if Microsoft can't backfill XNA with their own
>> gaming engine the is unity3d that natural choice or is it a case of acquire
>> (which I doubt they will sell) or beat? Which already puts them way behind
>> in adoption?
>>
>
> I thought the funding figures for Xamarin were interesting. They have 6
> mil in cash but also got a recent funding round of 16 mil. I don't know
> what the equity dilution was for that 16 mil nor why you need it if you
> cash spend the cash you have but ... they are a very strategic asset for a
> number of companies. I have no idea why no one has bought them yet. As for
> doubting Xamarin or Unity would sell ... every man has his price. Spending
> 500 mil on Xamarin would get MS a lot better return than 7bln for the
> bottom half of Nokia's corpse.
>
> As for XNA ... it is irrelevant. YOu sould have to have rocks in your head
> to invest in it. Great idea for 2001 but in 2013 it would cripple your
> revenue as a game dev. Unity gives you one code based across
> PC/iTard/Android and apparently Sony is on board in a big way for indie
> games on the PS4.
>
> David.
>
>
>

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

He won't get the numbers and this morning I was in a cafe eating breakfast
and saw him on Sunrise talking about how he's going to take Murdoch to
court for slander.. and even still I sit there thinking "this guy has to be
given a seat in the senate ...if only to make question time more energetic
to watch..." :)



---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive’s policy platform isn’t
> necessarily the best one.
>
> ** **
>
> Pro “free market” (as opposed to “pro-business) is what’s generally best
> for *consumers* (even though it’s not good for an individual business),
> whereas business people tend to become “rent seekers” lobbying for favours
> for their industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in
> the Wealth of Nations, and nothing’s changed.
>
> ** **
>
> Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who’s
> “pro-business” attitude didn’t really extend to making life better for the
> general population.
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Evrat
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
>
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  ** **
>
> Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If
> business isn’t doing well we can’t afford anything else .. 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Tony Wright
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
> Queenslanders.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament
> House or is that just me..
>
> ** **
>
> I mean the comedic value alone is worth it
>
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:
>
>  Well said…I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
> him…mmm..that could bring a change!
>
>  
>
> Anthony
>
> Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!
>
> http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/*
> ***
>
>
>
> --
> NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
> privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication
> is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
> by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing
> it. (*13POrtC*)
>
> ---
> 
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Wow, he didn’t even know what the policies of his party were. I think I
> know them better than he does!
>
>  
>
> What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan
>
> “Er, the first one is stop the boats”
>
> What are the other 5 points?
>
> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>
> No, the other 5 points?
>
> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>
>  
>
> He should have said, well, so it’s a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to
> stop the boats.
>
>  
>
> What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.
>
>  
>
> Are these people worth $5? That’s how much our first preference vote is
> worth together for the upper and lower house. I don’t think they’re worth
> it. Mine isn’t going to Liberal or Labor. I’m finding someone closer to
> what I believe in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I
> want in. Why reward such mediocrity?
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> Full interview of Jaymes Diaz, Liberal Candidate for 
> Greenway
> this is pretty funny and disturbing video!
>
>  
>
> This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything…its
> just  a job he is going for…how do these people get into such roles…***

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Nathan Chere]

What, you mean the fat rich pricks we've already got aren't fat, rich or 
prickly enough?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 10:07 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

He won't get the numbers and this morning I was in a cafe eating breakfast and 
saw him on Sunrise talking about how he's going to take Murdoch to court for 
slander.. and even still I sit there thinking "this guy has to be given a seat 
in the senate ...if only to make question time more energetic to watch..." :)



---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Ken Schaefer 
mailto:k...@adopenstatic.com>> wrote:
There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive's policy platform isn't 
necessarily the best one.

Pro "free market" (as opposed to "pro-business) is what's generally best for 
consumers (even though it's not good for an individual business), whereas 
business people tend to become "rent seekers" lobbying for favours for their 
industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in the Wealth of 
Nations, and nothing's changed.

Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who's 
"pro-business" attitude didn't really extend to making life better for the 
general population.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM

To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If 
business isn't doing well we can't afford anything else ..

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were 
Queenslanders.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament 
House or is that just me..

I mean the comedic value alone is worth it

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:
Well said...I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in 
him...mmm..that could bring a change!

Anthony
Melbourne StuffUps...learn from others, share with others!
http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/

--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is 
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is 
strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by 
reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. 
(*13POrtC*)
---

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited





Wow, he didn't even know what the policies of his party were. I think I know 
them better than he does!



What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan

"Er, the first one is stop the boats"

What are the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

No, the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"



He should have said, well, so it's a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to stop 
the boats.



What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.



Are these people worth $5? That's how much our first preference vote is worth 
together for the upper and lower house. I don't think they're worth it. Mine 
isn't going to Liberal or Labor. I'm finding someone closer to what I believe 
in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I want in. Why 
reward such mediocrity?





From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of 
anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited



Full interview of Jaymes Diaz, Liberal Candidate for 
Greenway  this is pretty funny and 
disturbing video!



This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything...its just 
 a job he is going for...how do these people get i

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

Maybe but see attached :)

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:09 AM, Nathan Chere wrote:

>  What, you mean the fat rich pricks we’ve already got aren’t fat, rich or
> prickly enough?
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 10:07 AM
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> He won't get the numbers and this morning I was in a cafe eating breakfast
> and saw him on Sunrise talking about how he's going to take Murdoch to
> court for slander.. and even still I sit there thinking "this guy has to be
> given a seat in the senate ...if only to make question time more energetic
> to watch..." :)
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> 
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.riagenic.com
>
> ** **
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
> 
>
>  There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive’s policy platform isn’t
> necessarily the best one.
>
>  
>
> Pro “free market” (as opposed to “pro-business) is what’s generally best
> for *consumers* (even though it’s not good for an individual business),
> whereas business people tend to become “rent seekers” lobbying for favours
> for their industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in
> the Wealth of Nations, and nothing’s changed.
>
>  
>
> Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who’s
> “pro-business” attitude didn’t really extend to making life better for the
> general population.
>
>  
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken 
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Evrat
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
>
>
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If
> business isn’t doing well we can’t afford anything else .. 
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Tony Wright
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
> Queenslanders.
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament
> House or is that just me..
>
>  
>
> I mean the comedic value alone is worth it
>
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:
>
>  Well said…I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
> him…mmm..that could bring a change!
>
>  
>
> Anthony
>
> Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!
>
> http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/*
> ***
>
>
>
> --
> NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
> privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication
> is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
> by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing
> it. (*13POrtC*)
>
> ---
> 
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Tony Wright
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Wow, he didn’t even know what the policies of his party were. I think I
> know them better than he does!
>
>  
>
> What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan
>
> “Er, the first one is stop the boats”
>
> What are the other 5 points?
>
> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>
> No, the other 5 points?
>
> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>
>  
>
> He should have said, well, so it’s a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to
> stop the boats.
>
>  
>
> What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.
>
>  
>
> Are these people worth $5? That’s how much our first preference vote is
> worth together for the upper and lower house. I don’t think they’re worth
> it. Mine isn’t going to Liberal or Labor. I’m finding someone closer to
> what I believe in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I
> want in. Why reward such mediocrity?
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[mike smith]

o:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *GregAtGregLowDotCom
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.
>
>  
>
> However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to
> deliver it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.
> 
>
>  
>
> Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node
> in 2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire
> in about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d
> pay the $3k-$5k in a heartbeat.
>
>  
>
> Regards,
>
>  
>
> Greg
>
>  
>
> Dr Greg Low
>
>  
>
> 1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913fax
> 
>
> SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *David Richards
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.
>
>  
>
> For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum
> some years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a
> politician appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people"
> would vote for the president.
>
>  
>
> The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so
> without all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a
> decision.
>
>  
>
> People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point
> of view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.
> 
>
>  
>
> If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only
> option now is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL
> with a fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a
> choice...
>
>
> 
>
> David
>
> "If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes
>  will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
>  -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
>
>  
>
> On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy 
> wrote:
>
> Here’s a good read from today :
>
> http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html
> 
>
>  
>
> Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start
> looking at the forest.
>
>  
>
> ** **
>



-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Paul Evrat]

 

True, Clive and his policies in total are a bit over the top but he knows
he's not going to be PM, it will be a long time before there is other than a
Lib or Labor PM, but there are too many balls and chains around business and
economic progress at the moment and having a slightly over the top
pro-business minor party with some kick-arse influence would be
unprecedented (I think). Plus the current leaders on both sides are too
dull, boring and lame, it's time for some colour and go-get-it influence.

 

Agree that total free market is not good for business, the country is way
too small for that. But in terms of balancing business and welfare safety
nets Australia has the best chance. Don't agree business are rent seekers,
they just want a decent playing field then for government to get out of the
way. That's what business lobbying is about.

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 9:26 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive's policy platform isn't
necessarily the best one.

 

Pro "free market" (as opposed to "pro-business) is what's generally best for
consumers (even though it's not good for an individual business), whereas
business people tend to become "rent seekers" lobbying for favours for their
industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in the Wealth
of Nations, and nothing's changed.

 

Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who's
"pro-business" attitude didn't really extend to making life better for the
general population.

 

Cheers

Ken 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If
business isn't doing well we can't afford anything else .. 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
Queenslanders.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament
House or is that just me..

 

I mean the comedic value alone is worth it 

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:

Well said.I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
him.mmm..that could bring a change!

 

Anthony

Melbourne StuffUps.learn from others, share with others!

http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/



--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is
strictly prohibited. 
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing
it. (*13POrtC*)

--- 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com

[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 ] On
Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

 

Wow, he didn't even know what the policies of his party were. I think I know
them better than he does!

 

What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan

"Er, the first one is stop the boats"

What are the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

No, the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

 

He should have said, well, so it's a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to
stop the boats.

 

What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.

 

Are these people worth $5? That's how much our first preference vote is
worth together for the upper and lower house. I don't think they're worth
it. Mine isn't going to Liberal or Labor. I'm finding someone closer to what
I believe in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I want
in. Why reward such mediocrity?

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

  Full interview of Jaymes Diaz,
Liberal Candidate for Greenway  this is pretty funny and disturbing video!

 

This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[mike smith]

It'd be "pro my business, and damn any others!"


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 8:36 AM, Paul Evrat  wrote:

> Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If
> business isn’t doing well we can’t afford anything else .. 
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
>
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
> Queenslanders.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament
> House or is that just me..
>
> ** **
>
> I mean the comedic value alone is worth it
>
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:
>
> Well said…I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
> him…mmm..that could bring a change!
>
>  
>
> Anthony
>
> Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!
>
> http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/*
> ***
>
>
>
> --
> NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
> privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
> disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication
> is strictly prohibited.
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender
> by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing
> it. (*13POrtC*)
>
> ---
> 
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Wow, he didn’t even know what the policies of his party were. I think I
> know them better than he does!
>
>  
>
> What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan
>
> “Er, the first one is stop the boats”
>
> What are the other 5 points?
>
> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>
> No, the other 5 points?
>
> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>
>  
>
> He should have said, well, so it’s a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to
> stop the boats.
>
>  
>
> What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.
>
>  
>
> Are these people worth $5? That’s how much our first preference vote is
> worth together for the upper and lower house. I don’t think they’re worth
> it. Mine isn’t going to Liberal or Labor. I’m finding someone closer to
> what I believe in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I
> want in. Why reward such mediocrity?
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  
>
> Full interview of Jaymes Diaz, Liberal Candidate for 
> Greenway
> this is pretty funny and disturbing video!
>
>  
>
> This guy is pretty useless..this politick has no idea about anything…its
> just  a job he is going for…how do these people get into such roles…
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> Regards,
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.riagenic.com
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2013.0.3392 / Virus Database: 3222/6636 - Release Date: 09/03/13*
> ***
>



-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[mike smith]

I call that model "write once, debug everywhere"


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Joseph Cooney wrote:

> I like the 'compile for all' idea. I guess you can do that with portable
> class librariesa bit. But it could be much much much better than that.
>
> Step 1. - > buy MONOnot the product, the company
> Step 2. -> Buy/build something that lets you suck in an iOS project or
> Android project, convert it to MONO, and re-target it on all the platforms,
> including windows phone
> Step 3. -> every time something ships on iOS/Android it ships for WP8 and
> maybe Win8 too
>
> we could call it 'write once, run anywhere'.
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Scott Barnes wrote:
>
>> Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc usual
>> rants.. but in both cases I was also asked "How would you fix all of this"
>> style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual response
>> to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would navigate
>> out of this should you be "In charge" of it all?
>>
>> - Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment
>> strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of
>> Namespace or "Adopt HTML5 or go away" thinking, instead take a page out of
>> the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile
>> for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of
>> developers executing on their "Apps" (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres
>> really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than
>> touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting...
>>
>> - Design <-> Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out
>> and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's
>> funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by
>> abstracting designers further away from the developer <-> designer
>> workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem
>> into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming).
>> I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products
>> from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on.
>>
>> Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could
>> unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft
>> ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from
>> Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its "adopt win8
>> or get lost" mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming
>> ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting
>> whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through
>> Win8 learning(s)).
>>
>> Agree? have better idea?
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Regards,
>> Scott Barnes
>> http://www.riagenic.com
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> w: http://jcooney.net
> t: @josephcooney
>



-- 
Meski

 http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv

"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Joseph Cooney]

Re: taking Murdoch to court..."never quarrel with a man who buys ink by the
barrel."
On 5 Sep 2013 10:07, "Scott Barnes"  wrote:

> He won't get the numbers and this morning I was in a cafe eating breakfast
> and saw him on Sunrise talking about how he's going to take Murdoch to
> court for slander.. and even still I sit there thinking "this guy has to be
> given a seat in the senate ...if only to make question time more energetic
> to watch..." :)
>
>
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Scott Barnes
> http://www.riagenic.com
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:
>
>>  There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive’s policy platform isn’t
>> necessarily the best one.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Pro “free market” (as opposed to “pro-business) is what’s generally best
>> for *consumers* (even though it’s not good for an individual business),
>> whereas business people tend to become “rent seekers” lobbying for favours
>> for their industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in
>> the Wealth of Nations, and nothing’s changed.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who’s
>> “pro-business” attitude didn’t really extend to making life better for the
>> general population.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Ken 
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Evrat
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
>>
>> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>>
>>  ** **
>>
>> Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If
>> business isn’t doing well we can’t afford anything else .. 
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
>> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Tony Wright
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
>> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
>> Queenslanders.
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
>> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
>> *To:* ozDotNet
>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in
>> Parliament House or is that just me..
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> I mean the comedic value alone is worth it
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:
>>
>>  Well said…I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
>> him…mmm..that could bring a change!
>>
>>  
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>> Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!
>>
>> http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
>> privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
>> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>> disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication
>> is strictly prohibited.
>> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the
>> sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or
>> disclosing it. (*13POrtC*)
>>
>> ---
>> 
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
>> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> Wow, he didn’t even know what the policies of his party were. I think I
>> know them better than he does!
>>
>>  
>>
>> What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan
>>
>> “Er, the first one is stop the boats”
>>
>> What are the other 5 points?
>>
>> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>>
>> No, the other 5 points?
>>
>> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>>
>>  
>>
>> He should have said, well, so it’s a 6 point plan but all 6 points are to
>> stop the boats.
>>
>>  
>>
>> What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.
>>
>>  
>>
>> Are these people worth $5? That’s how much our first preference vote is
>> worth together for the upper and lower house. I don’t think they’re worth
>> it. Mine isn’t going to Liberal or Labor. I’m finding someone closer to
>> what I believe in and voting for them first and then voting for the party I
>> want in. Why reward such mediocrity?
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
>> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *anthonyatsmall...@mail.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 4:11 PM
>> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>>
>>  
>>
>> Full

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

but.. never quarrel with the man who eats ink by the barrel  wait.. :D

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Joseph Cooney wrote:

> Re: taking Murdoch to court..."never quarrel with a man who buys ink by
> the barrel."
> On 5 Sep 2013 10:07, "Scott Barnes"  wrote:
>
>> He won't get the numbers and this morning I was in a cafe eating
>> breakfast and saw him on Sunrise talking about how he's going to take
>> Murdoch to court for slander.. and even still I sit there thinking "this
>> guy has to be given a seat in the senate ...if only to make question time
>> more energetic to watch..." :)
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Regards,
>> Scott Barnes
>> http://www.riagenic.com
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Ken Schaefer wrote:
>>
>>>  There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive’s policy platform isn’t
>>> necessarily the best one.
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Pro “free market” (as opposed to “pro-business) is what’s generally best
>>> for *consumers* (even though it’s not good for an individual business),
>>> whereas business people tend to become “rent seekers” lobbying for favours
>>> for their industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in
>>> the Wealth of Nations, and nothing’s changed.
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who’s
>>> “pro-business” attitude didn’t really extend to making life better for the
>>> general population.
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Ken 
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Evrat
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
>>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>>>
>>>  ** **
>>>
>>> Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country.
>>> If business isn’t doing well we can’t afford anything else .. 
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
>>> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Tony Wright
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
>>> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
>>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
>>> Queenslanders.
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
>>> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
>>> Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
>>> *To:* ozDotNet
>>> *Subject:* Re: [OT] NBN revisited
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in
>>> Parliament House or is that just me..
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> I mean the comedic value alone is worth it
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:
>>>
>>>  Well said…I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
>>> him…mmm..that could bring a change!
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Anthony
>>>
>>> Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!
>>>
>>> http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
>>> privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee.
>>> If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
>>> disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication
>>> is strictly prohibited.
>>> If you have received this communication in error, please notify the
>>> sender by reply transmission and delete the message without copying or
>>> disclosing it. (*13POrtC*)
>>>
>>> ---
>>> 
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
>>> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Tony Wright
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
>>> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
>>> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Wow, he didn’t even know what the policies of his party were. I think I
>>> know them better than he does!
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan
>>>
>>> “Er, the first one is stop the boats”
>>>
>>> What are the other 5 points?
>>>
>>> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>>>
>>> No, the other 5 points?
>>>
>>> “Er we plan to stop the boats”
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> He should have said, well, so it’s a 6 point plan but all 6 points are
>>> to stop the boats.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> What a vacuous bunch of pollie we have.
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Are these people worth $5? That’s how much our first preference vote is
>>> worth together for the upper and lower house. I don’t think they’re worth
>>> it. Mine isn’t going to Liberal or Labor. I’m finding someone closer to
>>> what I believe in and voting for them first and then voting 

Re: [OT] FixWPF err.. FixUXPlat?

[Scott Barnes]

agreed it does beat "write once IF conditionX == conditionY THEN debug here
ELSE IF X!=Z debug here ..  200 IF/ELSE statements later... debug
everywhere" :)


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:31 AM, mike smith  wrote:

> I call that model "write once, debug everywhere"
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:18 PM, Joseph Cooney wrote:
>
>> I like the 'compile for all' idea. I guess you can do that with portable
>> class librariesa bit. But it could be much much much better than that.
>>
>> Step 1. - > buy MONOnot the product, the company
>> Step 2. -> Buy/build something that lets you suck in an iOS project or
>> Android project, convert it to MONO, and re-target it on all the platforms,
>> including windows phone
>> Step 3. -> every time something ships on iOS/Android it ships for WP8 and
>> maybe Win8 too
>>
>> we could call it 'write once, run anywhere'.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 11:52 AM, Scott Barnes wrote:
>>
>>> Last night at TechEd i was asked twice about the future of .NET etc
>>> usual rants.. but in both cases I was also asked "How would you fix all of
>>> this" style questions. It got me thinking and I dunno, here's my actual
>>> response to that question but I'd also be curious to see how you all would
>>> navigate out of this should you be "In charge" of it all?
>>>
>>> - Tooling. Offer .NET developers a smarter approach to their deployment
>>> strategies. Instead of forcing them to abandon WPF through variety of
>>> Namespace or "Adopt HTML5 or go away" thinking, instead take a page out of
>>> the gaming / phonegap style solutions and offer them the ability to compile
>>> for both old and new via tooling. Given not much has changed in terms of
>>> developers executing on their "Apps" (forms, dashboards, blah blah) theres
>>> really no added benefit to Windows8 Style development vs WPF other than
>>> touch API's and *maybe* async support and/or Win8 Store targeting...
>>>
>>> - Design <-> Developer Design Tool. Blend was rushed, poorly thought out
>>> and had a terrible monetization projection(s) attached (MSDN killed Blend's
>>> funding). The problem hasn't gone a way its just amplified further by
>>> abstracting designers further away from the developer <-> designer
>>> workflows. I'd restart the Blend tooling problem but i'd break the problem
>>> into 3 different lenses (Screen Size/Layout, Binding, Styling and Theming).
>>> I'd focus on establishing a tool that acts as conduit / bridge to products
>>> from Adobe, Maxon (c4d), Autodesk and so on.
>>>
>>> Imho I think if you focused on both of these two core issues you could
>>> unblock a lot of stalling around platform adoption within the Microsoft
>>> ecosystem ... that being said I see none of the above leadership from
>>> Microsoft today and i'm not convinced so far we will unless its "adopt win8
>>> or get lost" mentality (5-10yrs from now may hold some water assuming
>>> ubiquity occurs in win8 and projects being built today start sunsetting
>>> whilst at the same time developers adopt and secure their futures through
>>> Win8 learning(s)).
>>>
>>> Agree? have better idea?
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Regards,
>>> Scott Barnes
>>> http://www.riagenic.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> w: http://jcooney.net
>> t: @josephcooney
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Meski
>
>http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv
>
> "Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
> you'll get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills
>

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

I think you have a naïve view of what business lobbying is about then.
Tax breaks or write-offs for "x", import restrictions on "y", government grants 
for "z"

Free markets are best for consumers (and best for business as a whole). It just 
makes life hard for individual businesses, because it keeps them honest. Which 
is why so many business people are forever calling for government intervention 
to make their lives easier (maybe that's what "a decent playing field" is a 
euphemism for)

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 10:28 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited


True, Clive and his policies in total are a bit over the top but he knows he's 
not going to be PM, it will be a long time before there is other than a Lib or 
Labor PM, but there are too many balls and chains around business and economic 
progress at the moment and having a slightly over the top pro-business minor 
party with some kick-arse influence would be unprecedented (I think). Plus the 
current leaders on both sides are too dull, boring and lame, it's time for some 
colour and go-get-it influence.

Agree that total free market is not good for business, the country is way too 
small for that. But in terms of balancing business and welfare safety nets 
Australia has the best chance. Don't agree business are rent seekers, they just 
want a decent playing field then for government to get out of the way. That's 
what business lobbying is about.



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 9:26 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive's policy platform isn't 
necessarily the best one.

Pro "free market" (as opposed to "pro-business) is what's generally best for 
consumers (even though it's not good for an individual business), whereas 
business people tend to become "rent seekers" lobbying for favours for their 
industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in the Wealth of 
Nations, and nothing's changed.

Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who's 
"pro-business" attitude didn't really extend to making life better for the 
general population.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If 
business isn't doing well we can't afford anything else ..

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were 
Queenslanders.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament 
House or is that just me..

I mean the comedic value alone is worth it

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:
Well said...I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in 
him...mmm..that could bring a change!

Anthony
Melbourne StuffUps...learn from others, share with others!
http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/

--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is 
privileged and confidential, and is intended only for use of the addressee. If 
you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any 
disclosure, reproduction, distribution or other use of this communication is 
strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender by 
reply transmission and delete the message without copying or disclosing it. 
(*13POrtC*)
---

From: 
ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
 On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 6:02 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited





Wow, he didn't even know what the policies of his party were. I think I know 
them better than he does!



What are the 6 points of the 6 point Stop The Boats plan

"Er, the first one is stop the boats"

What are the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"

No, the other 5 points?

"Er we plan to stop the boats"



He should have said, well, so it's a 6 point plan but all 6 points 

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Tony Wright]

013 3:06 PM


To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I wouldn’t count on that running that smoothly. It will take time to get that 
many “fridges” installed everywhere: thinking it can all be done in three years 
sounds incredibly hopeful to me. But even once that is done, then the fibre has 
to be physically installed down the road/streets. If that is done on an ad-hoc, 
one house here, one house there, not only is it terribly unproductive, but you 
can expect a whole lot of council backlash against the interruption to 
pedestrian and vehicle traffic etc, etc. Seriously, you should try to get 
Telstra to run you some cable today and see what the costs are and how long it 
takes: 

 

Only $5K from the exchange to your house: dreaming ;)

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>  
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of GregAtGregLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410   
mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:  <http://www.sqldownunder.com/> www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com <mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com>  
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum some 
years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a politician 
appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people" would vote for 
the president.

 

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so without 
all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a decision.

 

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of 
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

 

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option now 
is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a 
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy mailto:bill.mccarthy.li...@live.com.au> > wrote:

Here’s a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking at 
the forest.

 

 

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Paul Evrat]

 

Lobbyists are always going to keep themselves busy but that just counters
the relentless lobbying by welfare groups for non-economy boosting
government spending. Unless you’re the big 4 banks or Coles or Woolworths
with monopolistic characteristics business is pretty tough even in good
times. 

 

Shouldn’t the car industry lobby for government support to keep some sort of
car manufacturing in Australia? 

 

Wouldn’t you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing IT /
coding to India etc?  Or would that just be programmers trying to keep
things cosy for themselves ??!!

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 11:21 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I think you have a naïve view of what business lobbying is about then.

Tax breaks or write-offs for “x”, import restrictions on “y”, government
grants for “z”

 

Free markets are best for consumers (and best for business as a whole). It
just makes life hard for individual businesses, because it keeps them
honest. Which is why so many business people are forever calling for
government intervention to make their lives easier (maybe that’s what “a
decent playing field” is a euphemism for)

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 10:28 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

 

True, Clive and his policies in total are a bit over the top but he knows
he’s not going to be PM, it will be a long time before there is other than a
Lib or Labor PM, but there are too many balls and chains around business and
economic progress at the moment and having a slightly over the top
pro-business minor party with some kick-arse influence would be
unprecedented (I think). Plus the current leaders on both sides are too
dull, boring and lame, it’s time for some colour and go-get-it influence.

 

Agree that total free market is not good for business, the country is way
too small for that. But in terms of balancing business and welfare safety
nets Australia has the best chance. Don’t agree business are rent seekers,
they just want a decent playing field then for government to get out of the
way. That’s what business lobbying is about.

 

 

 

From:   ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[ 
mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 9:26 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive’s policy platform isn’t
necessarily the best one.

 

Pro “free market” (as opposed to “pro-business) is what’s generally best for
consumers (even though it’s not good for an individual business), whereas
business people tend to become “rent seekers” lobbying for favours for their
industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in the Wealth
of Nations, and nothing’s changed.

 

Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who’s
“pro-business” attitude didn’t really extend to making life better for the
general population.

 

Cheers

Ken 

 

From:   ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[ 
mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If
business isn’t doing well we can’t afford anything else .. 

 

From:   ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[ 
mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Oh I thought the only people ridiculous enough to vote for him were
Queenslanders.

 

From:   ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[ 
mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 10:02 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Is anyone else just a little bit curious to see Clive Palmer in Parliament
House or is that just me..

 

I mean the comedic value alone is worth it 

On Wednesday, September 4, 2013, wrote:

Well said…I believe Julian Assange would get my vote..i see honesty in
him…mmm..that could bring a change!

 

Anthony

Melbourne StuffUps…learn from others, share with others!

 
http://www.meetup.com/Melbourne-Ideas-Incubator-Stuffups-Failed-Startups/



--
NOTICE : The information contained in this electronic mail message is
privileged and co

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

Wouldn't you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing IT / 
coding to India etc?

And that's what an economist (and I) call "rent seeking" - I'm asking the 
government to impose an implicit tax/penalty on everyone else (e.g. through 
paying higher prices) to make life better for myself. Which is why I'm not 
particularly enamoured of the idea that "business people" running the country 
is good for "the economy", because what's good for a particular business person 
is the opposite of what's good for an economy.

The same applies to unionists being good for "the economy" - they're not. 
They're good for their particular rent-seeking constituency.

As I said before, there's plenty of business people that have gone into 
government (Thaksin, Berlusconi) that haven't done anything particularly good 
for the overall economy, which ultimately is what makes us all better off.

Cheers
Ken


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 11:58 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited


Lobbyists are always going to keep themselves busy but that just counters the 
relentless lobbying by welfare groups for non-economy boosting government 
spending. Unless you're the big 4 banks or Coles or Woolworths with 
monopolistic characteristics business is pretty tough even in good times.

Shouldn't the car industry lobby for government support to keep some sort of 
car manufacturing in Australia?

Wouldn't you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing IT / 
coding to India etc?  Or would that just be programmers trying to keep things 
cosy for themselves ??!!



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 11:21 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

I think you have a naïve view of what business lobbying is about then.
Tax breaks or write-offs for "x", import restrictions on "y", government grants 
for "z"

Free markets are best for consumers (and best for business as a whole). It just 
makes life hard for individual businesses, because it keeps them honest. Which 
is why so many business people are forever calling for government intervention 
to make their lives easier (maybe that's what "a decent playing field" is a 
euphemism for)

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 10:28 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited


True, Clive and his policies in total are a bit over the top but he knows he's 
not going to be PM, it will be a long time before there is other than a Lib or 
Labor PM, but there are too many balls and chains around business and economic 
progress at the moment and having a slightly over the top pro-business minor 
party with some kick-arse influence would be unprecedented (I think). Plus the 
current leaders on both sides are too dull, boring and lame, it's time for some 
colour and go-get-it influence.

Agree that total free market is not good for business, the country is way too 
small for that. But in terms of balancing business and welfare safety nets 
Australia has the best chance. Don't agree business are rent seekers, they just 
want a decent playing field then for government to get out of the way. That's 
what business lobbying is about.



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 9:26 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive's policy platform isn't 
necessarily the best one.

Pro "free market" (as opposed to "pro-business) is what's generally best for 
consumers (even though it's not good for an individual business), whereas 
business people tend to become "rent seekers" lobbying for favours for their 
industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in the Wealth of 
Nations, and nothing's changed.

Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who's 
"pro-business" attitude didn't really extend to making life better for the 
general population.

Cheers
Ken

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 8:37 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Any pro-business force in parliament can only be good for the country. If 
business isn't doing well we can't afford anything else ..

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wright
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 7:52 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Oh I thought the only people ridiculous 

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[mike smith]

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 12:33 PM, Ken Schaefer  wrote:

>  Wouldn’t you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing
> IT / coding to India etc?
>
> ** **
>
> And that’s what an economist (and I) call “rent seeking” – I’m asking the
> government to impose an implicit tax/penalty on everyone else (e.g. through
> paying higher prices) to make life better for myself.
>


You have to call it what it is.


> Which is why I’m not particularly enamoured of the idea that “business
> people” running the country is good for “the economy”, because what’s good
> for a particular business person is the opposite of what’s good for an
> economy. 
>
> ** **
>
> The same applies to unionists being good for “the economy” – they’re not.
> They’re good for their particular rent-seeking constituency.
>
> **
>

That it is more broadly based than Twiggy, Gina and Clive doesn't really
matter.  In the long run it isn't good for us.


> **
>
> As I said before, there’s plenty of business people that have gone into
> government (Thaksin, Berlusconi) that haven’t done anything particularly
> good for the overall economy, which ultimately is what makes us all better
> off.
>
> **
>

In their case too, it's 'all about them'


> **
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Paul Evrat
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 11:58 AM
>
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
>  ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Lobbyists are always going to keep themselves busy but that just counters
> the relentless lobbying by welfare groups for non-economy boosting
> government spending. Unless you’re the big 4 banks or Coles or Woolworths
> with monopolistic characteristics business is pretty tough even in good
> times. 
>
> ** **
>
> Shouldn’t the car industry lobby for government support to keep some sort
> of car manufacturing in Australia? 
>
> ** **
>
> Wouldn’t you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing IT
> / coding to India etc?  Or would that just be programmers trying to keep
> things cosy for themselves ??!!
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 11:21 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> I think you have a naïve view of what business lobbying is about then.
>
> Tax breaks or write-offs for “x”, import restrictions on “y”, government
> grants for “z”
>
> ** **
>
> Free markets are best for consumers (and best for business as a whole). It
> just makes life hard for individual businesses, because it keeps them
> honest. Which is why so many business people are forever calling for
> government intervention to make their lives easier (maybe that’s what “a
> decent playing field” is a euphemism for)
>
> ** **
>
> Cheers
>
> Ken
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Paul Evrat
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 10:28 AM
> *To:* 'ozDotNet'
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> True, Clive and his policies in total are a bit over the top but he knows
> he’s not going to be PM, it will be a long time before there is other than
> a Lib or Labor PM, but there are too many balls and chains around business
> and economic progress at the moment and having a slightly over the top
> pro-business minor party with some kick-arse influence would be
> unprecedented (I think). Plus the current leaders on both sides are too
> dull, boring and lame, it’s time for some colour and go-get-it influence.*
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> Agree that total free market is not good for business, the country is way
> too small for that. But in terms of balancing business and welfare safety
> nets Australia has the best chance. Don’t agree business are rent seekers,
> they just want a decent playing field then for government to get out of the
> way. That’s what business lobbying is about.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
> mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 9:26 AM
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> There are multiple ways to cook an egg. Clive’s policy platform isn’t
> necessarily the best one.
>
> ** **
>
> Pro “free market” (as opposed to “pro-business) is what’s generally best
> for *consumers* (even though it’s not good for an individual business),
> whereas business people tend to become “rent seekers” lobbying for favours
> for their industries. Adam Smith noted something similar ~300 years ago in
> the Wealth of Nations, and nothing’s changed.
>
> ** **
>
> Silvio Berlusconi is an example of a successful businessman who’s
> “pro-business” attitude didn’t really 

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ian Thomas]

egLowDotCom
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Like most people, I’d love to have FTTH.

 

However, I have zero confidence in the current government’s ability to deliver 
it in a reasonable timeframe. Wishing for it won’t make it happen.

 

Given a choice between paying $3K-$5k to connect our house to a local node in 
2016, and a dream of a service that’s unlikely to appear before I retire in 
about 10 years’ time, there really is no serious choice to be made. I’d pay the 
$3k-$5k in a heartbeat.

 

Regards,

 

Greg

 

Dr Greg Low

 

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775  ) office | +61 419201410 
  mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913   
fax 

SQL Down Under | Web:  <http://www.sqldownunder.com/> www.sqldownunder.com

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Richards
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 2:38 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Apart from the use of "impacted", a nice article.

 

For some reason, this whole argument reminds me of the republic referendum some 
years back.  I knew a number of people who didn't like the idea of a politician 
appointed president and thought voting "No" meant "the people" would vote for 
the president.

 

The fact is, the vast majority of people who vote on such things do so without 
all the facts.  Certainly not enough to be responsible for making a decision.

 

People on this list will tend to be looking at it from a technical point of 
view.  I doubt any of this has any meaning to the population in general.

 

If the NBN was available in my area, I'd get it.  For cable, my only option now 
is Optus which is what I have.  Telstra told me I could get ADSL with a 
fraction of the data and for a lot more money.  If only I had a choice...




David

"If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes 
 will fall like a house of cards... checkmate!"
 -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama

 

On 4 September 2013 13:53, Bill McCarthy  
wrote:

Here’s a good read from today :
http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/turnbulls-fragmented-nbn-dooms-australia-to-repeat-the-mistakes-of-the-past-20130904-2t4cr.html

 

Hopefully that will help some folks see past the one tree and start looking at 
the forest.

 

 





 

-- 
Meski


  <http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv> http://courteous.ly/aAOZcv


"Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure, you'll 
get it, but it's going to be rough" - Adam Hills

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Paul Evrat]

 

Without doubt any elected official acting out their vested interests (no
matter what) belongs behind bars, but we were talking about business
lobbying, and I’m saying it’s not about making easy lives easier. 

 

There is a role for government (and rent seeking beneficiaries if you like)
when A. The country is trying to develop a new industry or grow an existing
one, B. Phase out an uncompetitive old one, or C, Assist an industry in
transition. My point was just that those areas are the main focus of
business lobbying, and keeping those areas constant (level playing field) in
the face of constant pressures for other changes – left agenda / right
agendas, other country’s protectionism etc .. Without that and with a fully
free-market we’d only have mining, some agriculture, tourism, and some
construction serving the employees and needs of those industries that
weren’t outsourced to cheap labour overseas. Everything else would come from
China, India etc .. 

 

What sort of people do you want running the country? Haven’t we had enough
ex-lawyers and unionists. Agree re Berlusconi etc but Turnbull wouldn’t make
a bad PM. I’m not saying Clive would, but a minority role in government
would be a good kick in the pants for the rest of them all and make TV a lot
more interesting ..

 

Maybe it comes back to basic political views, do you see the role of
government as redistributing wealth from those that build it, or as setting
the playing fields and enabling individuals and companies to build wealth so
we can afford better welfare safety nets etc.

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 12:34 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

Wouldn’t you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing IT /
coding to India etc?

 

And that’s what an economist (and I) call “rent seeking” – I’m asking the
government to impose an implicit tax/penalty on everyone else (e.g. through
paying higher prices) to make life better for myself. Which is why I’m not
particularly enamoured of the idea that “business people” running the
country is good for “the economy”, because what’s good for a particular
business person is the opposite of what’s good for an economy. 

 

The same applies to unionists being good for “the economy” – they’re not.
They’re good for their particular rent-seeking constituency.

 

As I said before, there’s plenty of business people that have gone into
government (Thaksin, Berlusconi) that haven’t done anything particularly
good for the overall economy, which ultimately is what makes us all better
off.

 

Cheers

Ken

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 11:58 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

 

Lobbyists are always going to keep themselves busy but that just counters
the relentless lobbying by welfare groups for non-economy boosting
government spending. Unless you’re the big 4 banks or Coles or Woolworths
with monopolistic characteristics business is pretty tough even in good
times. 

 

Shouldn’t the car industry lobby for government support to keep some sort of
car manufacturing in Australia? 

 

Wouldn’t you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing IT /
coding to India etc?  Or would that just be programmers trying to keep
things cosy for themselves ??!!

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 11:21 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

I think you have a naïve view of what business lobbying is about then.

Tax breaks or write-offs for “x”, import restrictions on “y”, government
grants for “z”

 

Free markets are best for consumers (and best for business as a whole). It
just makes life hard for individual businesses, because it keeps them
honest. Which is why so many business people are forever calling for
government intervention to make their lives easier (maybe that’s what “a
decent playing field” is a euphemism for)

 

Cheers

Ken

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 10:28 AM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

 

 

True, Clive and his policies in total are a bit over the top but he knows
he’s not going to be PM, it will be a long time before there is other than a
Lib or Labor PM, but there are too many balls and chains around business and
economic progress at the moment and having a slightly over the top
pro-business minor party with some kick-arse influence would be
unprecedented (I think). Plus the current leaders on both sides are too
dull, boring and lame, it’s time for some colour and go-get-it influence.

 

Agree that total free market is not good for business, the country is way
too small for that. But i

Re: [OT] NBN revisited

[Scott Barnes]

I dunno everyone these days thanks to Google are either Economists,
Sociologists, Political Science Majors or Civil Engineers. It's hard at
times to sift through the opinions mixed with fact to arrive at an accurate
snapshot of what's actually likely to happen vs unlikely.

Is Abbott a bad PM? He's winning the race so far so that would indicate
that most Australians are in agreement with that whether they'd prefer him
to be the ideal candidate or not. Is Clive Palmer a serious contender,
apparently 6% (by mainstream media polling) state this guy is worth
listening to and so on. The collective intelligence of humans isn't exactly
something we should all agree are "intelligent" as we just have to watch
Big Brother or Listen to Miley Cyrus before we come to the conclusion that
there are massive memory leaks occurring somewhere.

NBN is one of this contentious issues where we all want 100mb/s and nobody
really is saying no to fast Internet. The problem is we are haggling over
the execution plan for it, specifically at what point do you turn and say
"yeah this is a little more expensive than I had planned" ...its kind of
like watching "House Design" (ABC TV show) where you watch these people
build this big bold outlandish houses that often starts out with the owner
saying "I have 1million pounds" and then towards the end of the episode
they have spent $2million pounds... its not about the cost really its more
about the fact that was the end result still worth it.

I suspect LNP don't have vision on this per say, I'd wager they saw a
weakness in ALP's execution plan and it centred around cost and time to
deliver, the figured out a counter proposal that in parts will land in the
same region of delivery but with less anxiety & risk towards delivery. They
are the ones who basically walk up to the house and say "You can't have
smart wiring and you can't have solar panels" and we're all arguing over
the return on investment for the said additions but aren't arguing what the
compromise between the two positions are.

Looking back on it we should have third option to discuss and / or have
political parties come together with a smarter compromise but it won't
happen? ..so its really down to the party of the day taking advantage of
the others weakness whilst feeding off that to pander to our concerns
around "economy management".

No doubt in 4yrs we'll be seeing ALP using the NBNCo as yet another
whipping post to highlight "see told you we were onto something.." and this
topic will agree or disagree with what is said.

---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Paul Evrat  wrote:

> ** **
>
> Without doubt any elected official acting out their vested interests (no
> matter what) belongs behind bars, but we were talking about business
> lobbying, and I’m saying it’s not about making easy lives easier. 
>
> ** **
>
> There is a role for government (and rent seeking beneficiaries if you
> like) when A. The country is trying to develop a new industry or grow an
> existing one, B. Phase out an uncompetitive old one, or C, Assist an
> industry in transition. My point was just that those areas are the main
> focus of business lobbying, and keeping those areas constant (level playing
> field) in the face of constant pressures for other changes – left agenda /
> right agendas, other country’s protectionism etc .. Without that and with a
> fully free-market we’d only have mining, some agriculture, tourism, and
> some construction serving the employees and needs of those industries that
> weren’t outsourced to cheap labour overseas. Everything else would come
> from China, India etc .. 
>
> ** **
>
> What sort of people do you want running the country? Haven’t we had enough
> ex-lawyers and unionists. Agree re Berlusconi etc but Turnbull wouldn’t
> make a bad PM. I’m not saying Clive would, but a minority role in
> government would be a good kick in the pants for the rest of them all and
> make TV a lot more interesting ..
>
> ** **
>
> Maybe it comes back to basic political views, do you see the role of
> government as redistributing wealth from those that build it, or as setting
> the playing fields and enabling individuals and companies to build wealth
> so we can afford better welfare safety nets etc.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Schaefer
> *Sent:* Thursday, 5 September 2013 12:34 PM
>
> *To:* ozDotNet
> *Subject:* RE: [OT] NBN revisited
>
> ** **
>
> Wouldn’t you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing IT
> / coding to India etc?
>
> ** **
>
> And that’s what an economist (and I) call “rent seeking” – I’m asking the
> government to impose an implicit tax/penalty on everyone else (e.g. through
> paying higher prices) to make life better for myself. Which is why I’m not
> particularly enamoured of the idea that “business people” running the
> co

RE: [OT] NBN revisited

[Ken Schaefer]

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 2:21 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited


Without doubt any elected official acting out their vested interests (no matter 
what) belongs behind bars, but we were talking about business lobbying, and I'm 
saying it's not about making easy lives easier.

I never said it was about making easy lives easier. Life for business should be 
relatively hard. That competitive pressure is what spurs them to improve rather 
than stagnate. Asking government to make their lives easier should be rebuffed.

There is a role for government (and rent seeking beneficiaries if you like) 
when A. The country is trying to develop a new industry or grow an existing 
one, B. Phase out an uncompetitive old one, or C, Assist an industry in 
transition.

I'm happy to agree to (c) only. Government should not be trying to "pick 
winners" - most governments have a dismal record in that sense. However I do 
agree that we'll face constant disruption in the face of competition (which is 
now going global), and government has a role in easing the transition for those 
that are in industries or regions that are going to become obsolete. We need as 
many educated, in-demand people and businesses as we can get our hands on - and 
not people with out-dated skills twiddling their thumbs.

My point was just that those areas are the main focus of business lobbying, and 
keeping those areas constant (level playing field) in the face of constant 
pressures for other changes - left agenda / right agendas, other country's 
protectionism etc .. Without that and with a fully free-market we'd only have 
mining, some agriculture, tourism, and some construction serving the employees 
and needs of those industries that weren't outsourced to cheap labour overseas. 
Everything else would come from China, India etc ..

Sorry - I completely disagree here. The idea that we must to protect Australian 
business against threats like outsourcing to India and China is exactly the 
slippery slope that results in the distorting nonsense we see today. Australia 
has many advantages - a highly educated workforce, first world infrastructure, 
a robust legal system and this translates into constant innovation and high 
value goods and services production - the economy is going to do just fine.

What sort of people do you want running the country? Haven't we had enough 
ex-lawyers and unionists. Agree re Berlusconi etc but Turnbull wouldn't make a 
bad PM. I'm not saying Clive would, but a minority role in government would be 
a good kick in the pants for the rest of them all and make TV a lot more 
interesting ..

Maybe it comes back to basic political views, do you see the role of government 
as redistributing wealth from those that build it, or as setting the playing 
fields and enabling individuals and companies to build wealth so we can afford 
better welfare safety nets etc.

I'm all for free markets - I think that free markets are (in most cases [1]) 
the best way to improve the lot of the general population in this country. What 
I don't believe is that business people like Clive are inherently any better at 
doing this than any other person. A good businessman is not inherently a good 
economist. Look at half the National party - successful, wealthy farmers, but 
half are agrarian socialists if you scratch the surface a bit.

Cheers
Ken

[1] I acknowledge that there's market failures due to externalities, 
information asymmetries, excessive transaction costs, monopolistic markets 
etc., and so government has a role in trying to ameliorate these failures.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Ken Schaefer
Sent: Thursday, 5 September 2013 12:34 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: [OT] NBN revisited

Wouldn't you want some sort of lobbying against government outsourcing IT / 
coding to India etc?

And that's what an economist (and I) call "rent seeking" - I'm asking the 
government to impose an implicit tax/penalty on everyone else (e.g. through 
paying higher prices) to make life better for myself. Which is why I'm not 
particularly enamoured of the idea that "business people" running the country 
is good for "the economy", because what's good for a particular business person 
is the opposite of what's good for an economy.

The same applies to unionists being good for "the economy" - they're not. 
They're good for their particular rent-seeking constituency.

As I said before, there's plenty of business people that have gone into 
government (Thaksin, Berlusconi) that haven't done anything particularly good 
for the overall economy, which ultimately is what makes us all better off.

Cheers
Ken


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Paul Evrat
Sent: Thu