TFS Identities when "moving" domains

[noonie]

Greetings,

I'm just about to do a TFS upgrade and environment migration to a new data
centre and have a couple of questions about the "TFSConfig Identities" tool.


   - Whilst the domain name will remain the same it will be really a
   different domain (e.g. *myworkplace*.*foo.bar.net.au
   <http://foo.bar.net.au>* will become *myworkplace*.*bee.boo.com.au
   <http://bee.boo.com.au>*). Will the Identities tool accept the same
   value for the old domain as the new domain (The account names will all be
   new for the active users)?


   - I have a number of old Identities that will not be in the new domain
   and they have no active work items. Will there be a problem if I just leave
   them? I don't feel that it would be right to map them all to a default
   "Inactive User" account in the new domain.

All the documentation I have found presumes a simple migration as does all
the "sample code" I have been able to find to date.

Any insights would be greatly appreciated...

-- 
Regards,
noonie

TFS 2012 code review alerts

[noonie]

Greetings,

I've upgraded our TFS to 2012 and have noticed that whenever I connect to a
project with Visual Studio 2012 a new code review alert is automatically
created against my name. As this only happens with Visual Studio and only
the very first time I connect to a project I believe that it is either
Visual Studio or TFS Power Tools thingy.

Does anyone know how I turn this "feature" off?

My Google-fu appears to have deserted me :-(

-- 
noonie

RE: Slightly off topic : Time recording in TFS 2015

[Andrew Coates (DX AUSTRALIA)]

I think that’s what SSW’s TimePro does now isn’t it Adam?

Cheers

Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, Microsoft, 1 Epping 
Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113
Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 • Mob +61 (416) 134 993 • Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 • 
http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Preet Sangha
Sent: Tuesday, 15 December 2015 1:59 PM
To: ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
Subject: Slightly off topic : Time recording in TFS 2015

I'm looking to implement this locally and was wondering if anyone is using any 
professional products  to help record time against Work Items in TFS 2015. My 
company prefers to buy a solution than to support an in house development.

I'm just started googling for products and thought I'd ask you guys if anyone 
has any recommendations

Our requirements are quite simple:

 -  Create a Work Item
2.-  At some point attach a (business created) code to it
3.-  At other times many people can record time against the work item
4.-  At some point we want to report
a.   Code | WorkItem | Who | Period | Sum (Time)

Before anyone comments on the merits of Time Tracking in dev it's not for 
development schedules, it's for accounting/billing data to a parent company.

regards,
Preet, in Auckland NZ

Slightly off topic : Time recording in TFS 2015

[Preet Sangha]

I'm looking to implement this locally and was wondering if anyone is using
any professional products  to help record time against Work Items in TFS
2015. My company prefers to buy a solution than to support an in house
development.

I'm just started googling for products and thought I'd ask you guys if
anyone has any recommendations

Our requirements are quite simple:

 -  Create a Work Item

2.-  At some point attach a (business created) code to it

3.-  At other times many people can record time against the work
item

4.-  At some point we want to report

a.   Code | WorkItem | Who | Period | Sum (Time)


Before anyone comments on the merits of Time Tracking in dev it's not for
development schedules, it's for accounting/billing data to a parent company.


regards,
Preet, in Auckland NZ

Re: Slightly off topic : Time recording in TFS 2015

[Yann VINCENT]

My company is using TxChrono: http://www.teamexpand.com/product/tx-chrono
It works well enough.

Cheers,
Yann

2015-12-15 13:04 GMT+10:00 Andrew Coates (DX AUSTRALIA) <
andrew.coa...@microsoft.com>:

> I think that’s what SSW’s TimePro does now isn’t it Adam?
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Andrew Coates, ME, MCPD, MCSD MCTS, Developer Evangelist, Microsoft, 1
> Epping Road, NORTH RYDE NSW 2113
> Ph: +61 (2) 9870 2719 • Mob +61 (416) 134 993 • Fax: +61 (2) 9870 2400 •
> http://blogs.msdn.com/acoat
>
>
>
> *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
> ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Preet Sangha
> *Sent:* Tuesday, 15 December 2015 1:59 PM
> *To:* ozDotNet <ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com>
> *Subject:* Slightly off topic : Time recording in TFS 2015
>
>
>
> I'm looking to implement this locally and was wondering if anyone is using
> any professional products  to help record time against Work Items in TFS
> 2015. My company prefers to buy a solution than to support an in house
> development.
>
>
>
> I'm just started googling for products and thought I'd ask you guys if
> anyone has any recommendations
>
>
>
> Our requirements are quite simple:
>
>
>
>  -  Create a Work Item
>
> 2.-  At some point attach a (business created) code to it
>
> 3.-  At other times many people can record time against the work
> item
>
> 4.-  At some point we want to report
>
> a.   Code | WorkItem | Who | Period | Sum (Time)
>
>
>
> Before anyone comments on the merits of Time Tracking in dev it's not for
> development schedules, it's for accounting/billing data to a parent company.
>
>
>
> regards,
> Preet, in Auckland NZ
>
>
>



-- 

Yann VINCENT

Unit 22, 159 Merthyr Road

New Farm, QLD, 4005

Email: y...@yvincent.com
Mobile: 0424 587 150

RE: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

[Paul Glavich]

We use TFS online all the time. We had noticed that StackRank column is also 
missing from some of the forms. While you can include it to see what the values 
are, you will find these values change as TFS online uses that field now for 
internal ordering of backlog items.

 

Quite painful for us since we use a customised version of scrum where we 
actively attributed values to stack rank to assist in prioritisation of a huge 
backlog at various phases. One might argue we should not have a huge backlog 
but in our instance, this is not practical at all as stack rank was one of the 
few common fields with bugs and stories. At any rate, we have had to 
accommodate it by using the backlog ordering feature and a separate area for 
defects/bugs. The removal of stackrank has forced us to cleanup our backlog 
which is a good thing but we still need to retain a fair bit so it has caused 
us more administrivia pain. I often find that scrum/agile practices tend to 
work best in greenfields projects and the strictness that is advocated causes 
more friction for no gain in much longer running projects (Note: I am a 
scrum/agile advocate but I tend to customise each to suite the 
environment/team/needs).

 

I believe you can still access it if you use something like Excel to do your 
work item management but you are fighting the system and I would guess there 
may be times when that value gets overwritten internally by TFS online so it is 
a risky proposition.

 

-  Glav

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Preet Sangha
Sent: Tuesday, 8 July 2014 3:45 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

 

Thanks David. Will contact Grant directly.

 

On 8 July 2014 17:09, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com 
mailto:david.k...@microsoft.com  wrote:

Grant says:

 

Can you have them contact me directly with their accountname.visualstudio.com 
http://accountname.visualstudio.com ?

 

There was an issue on Friday regarding backlog columns, we may have regressed 
something in some cases.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vsoservice/archive/2014/07/03/issues-with-visual-studio-online-work-item-backlog-management-2-7-investigating.aspx

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ] 
On Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 9:43 PM
To: ozDotNet; Grant Holliday
Subject: RE: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

 

Grant?

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com  
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Preet Sangha
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 6:18 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

 

This morning all of us who logged into TFS (as opposed to were already logged 
in on sleeping machines) have had Stack Rank removed from the Task Work Item 
template.

 

Cloud TFS doesn't allow changes to the WIT as you can with an in house TFS 
server so I was wondering if any of the MS people here know if there was a 
change to TFS that could have made this happen for us, or is there something we 
need to specially to fix this?


 

It's not critical at the moment but I'm sure if is affects us it will affect a 
bazillion other people.

 

 

Thanks.

-- 
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland 





 

-- 
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland 

Re: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

[Preet Sangha]

Thanks Paul.

David put me in touch with Grant at Microsoft who was able to determine
that it had been removed and he put up a notice (
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vsoservice/archive/2014/07/08/issues-with-visual-studio-online-stack-rank-field-on-task-work-items-7-8-investigating.aspx)
to that effect.


There is an Excel based work around, listed there too.

However looking this morning I noticed that stack rank is back.






On 4 August 2014 10:15, Paul Glavich subscripti...@theglavs.com wrote:

 We use TFS online all the time. We had noticed that StackRank column is
 also missing from some of the forms. While you can include it to see what
 the values are, you will find these values change as TFS online uses that
 field now for internal ordering of backlog items.



 Quite painful for us since we use a customised version of scrum where we
 actively attributed values to stack rank to assist in prioritisation of a
 huge backlog at various phases. One might argue we should not have a huge
 backlog but in our instance, this is not practical at all as stack rank was
 one of the few common fields with bugs and stories. At any rate, we have
 had to accommodate it by using the backlog ordering feature and a separate
 area for defects/bugs. The removal of stackrank has forced us to cleanup
 our backlog which is a good thing but we still need to retain a fair bit so
 it has caused us more administrivia pain. I often find that scrum/agile
 practices tend to work best in greenfields projects and the strictness that
 is advocated causes more friction for no gain in much longer running
 projects (Note: I am a scrum/agile advocate but I tend to customise each to
 suite the environment/team/needs).



 I believe you can still access it if you use something like Excel to do
 your work item management but you are fighting the system and I would guess
 there may be times when that value gets overwritten internally by TFS
 online so it is a risky proposition.



 -  Glav



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Preet Sangha
 *Sent:* Tuesday, 8 July 2014 3:45 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the
 cloud)?



 Thanks David. Will contact Grant directly.



 On 8 July 2014 17:09, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote:

 Grant says:



 Can you have them contact me directly with their
 accountname.visualstudio.com?



 There was an issue on Friday regarding backlog columns, we may have
 regressed something in some cases.


 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vsoservice/archive/2014/07/03/issues-with-visual-studio-online-work-item-backlog-management-2-7-investigating.aspx





 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Kean
 *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2014 9:43 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet; Grant Holliday
 *Subject:* RE: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the
 cloud)?



 Grant?



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Preet Sangha
 *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2014 6:18 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?



 This morning all of us who logged into TFS (as opposed to were already
 logged in on sleeping machines) have had Stack Rank removed from the Task
 Work Item template.



 Cloud TFS doesn't allow changes to the WIT as you can with an in house TFS
 server so I was wondering if any of the MS people here know if there was a
 change to TFS that could have made this happen for us, or is there
 something we need to specially to fix this?



 It's not critical at the moment but I'm sure if is affects us it will
 affect a bazillion other people.





 Thanks.

 --
 regards,
 Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland





 --
 regards,
 Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland




-- 
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

RE: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

[David Kean]

Grant?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Preet Sangha
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 6:18 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

This morning all of us who logged into TFS (as opposed to were already logged 
in on sleeping machines) have had Stack Rank removed from the Task Work Item 
template.

Cloud TFS doesn't allow changes to the WIT as you can with an in house TFS 
server so I was wondering if any of the MS people here know if there was a 
change to TFS that could have made this happen for us, or is there something we 
need to specially to fix this?

It's not critical at the moment but I'm sure if is affects us it will affect a 
bazillion other people.


Thanks.
--
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

RE: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

[David Kean]

Grant says:

Can you have them contact me directly with their accountname.visualstudio.com?

There was an issue on Friday regarding backlog columns, we may have regressed 
something in some cases.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vsoservice/archive/2014/07/03/issues-with-visual-studio-online-work-item-backlog-management-2-7-investigating.aspx


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of David Kean
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 9:43 PM
To: ozDotNet; Grant Holliday
Subject: RE: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

Grant?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Preet Sangha
Sent: Monday, July 7, 2014 6:18 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

This morning all of us who logged into TFS (as opposed to were already logged 
in on sleeping machines) have had Stack Rank removed from the Task Work Item 
template.

Cloud TFS doesn't allow changes to the WIT as you can with an in house TFS 
server so I was wondering if any of the MS people here know if there was a 
change to TFS that could have made this happen for us, or is there something we 
need to specially to fix this?

It's not critical at the moment but I'm sure if is affects us it will affect a 
bazillion other people.


Thanks.
--
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

Re: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?

[Preet Sangha]

Thanks David. Will contact Grant directly.


On 8 July 2014 17:09, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote:

  Grant says:



 Can you have them contact me directly with their
 accountname.visualstudio.com?



 There was an issue on Friday regarding backlog columns, we may have
 regressed something in some cases.


 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vsoservice/archive/2014/07/03/issues-with-visual-studio-online-work-item-backlog-management-2-7-investigating.aspx





 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *David Kean
 *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2014 9:43 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet; Grant Holliday
 *Subject:* RE: Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the
 cloud)?



 Grant?



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Preet Sangha
 *Sent:* Monday, July 7, 2014 6:18 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Any one here using the Visual Studio Online (TFS in the cloud)?



 This morning all of us who logged into TFS (as opposed to were already
 logged in on sleeping machines) have had Stack Rank removed from the Task
 Work Item template.



 Cloud TFS doesn't allow changes to the WIT as you can with an in house TFS
 server so I was wondering if any of the MS people here know if there was a
 change to TFS that could have made this happen for us, or is there
 something we need to specially to fix this?



 It's not critical at the moment but I'm sure if is affects us it will
 affect a bazillion other people.





 Thanks.

 --
 regards,
 Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland




-- 
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

RE: TFS Build in the Cloud

[David Kean]

Adding Chris and Grant's replies.

From: Chris Patterson
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 5:28 AM
To: Grant Holliday; David Kean; ozDotNet
Subject: RE: TFS Build in the Cloud

I haven't really considered it because it is outside the realm of the vast 
majority of the users that I have encountered.  I don't specifically know of 
any compatibility or SxS issues, but it is always possible.

From: Grant Holliday
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 7:33 PM
To: David Kean; ozDotNet; Chris Patterson
Subject: RE: TFS Build in the Cloud

Chris owns this area.

Chris - Have we considered adding SSDT-BI tools to the Hosted Build image?
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/analysisservices/archive/2013/03/06/sql-server-data-tools-business-intelligence-for-visual-studio-2012-released-online.aspx


From: David Kean
Sent: Thursday, 20 February 2014 10:35 AM
To: ozDotNet; Grant Holliday
Subject: RE: TFS Build in the Cloud

Grant?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Preet Sangha
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:01 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: TFS Build in the Cloud

Does anyone know who would be the best person/team to contact at Microsoft in 
order to request some extra software (MS SSDT-BI components) be installed on 
the Azure based VisualStudio.com build servers?

It seems that though SSDT is installed - SSDT-BI is still left out. In fact I'm 
completely open to the idea that it couldn't be installed due to some 
incompatibility - in which case I'd rather avoid going down the road of 
building my own build server simply to run into that road block!

--
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

Re: TFS Build in the Cloud

[Preet Sangha]

Grant/David Thank you for putting me through.

Chris I'll email you directly.


On 21 February 2014 05:58, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote:

  Adding Chris and Grant's replies.



 *From:* Chris Patterson
 *Sent:* Thursday, February 20, 2014 5:28 AM
 *To:* Grant Holliday; David Kean; ozDotNet
 *Subject:* RE: TFS Build in the Cloud



 I haven't really considered it because it is outside the realm of the vast
 majority of the users that I have encountered.  I don't specifically know
 of any compatibility or SxS issues, but it is always possible.



 *From:* Grant Holliday
 *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 7:33 PM
 *To:* David Kean; ozDotNet; Chris Patterson
 *Subject:* RE: TFS Build in the Cloud



 Chris owns this area.



 Chris - Have we considered adding SSDT-BI tools to the Hosted Build image?


 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/analysisservices/archive/2013/03/06/sql-server-data-tools-business-intelligence-for-visual-studio-2012-released-online.aspx





 *From:* David Kean
 *Sent:* Thursday, 20 February 2014 10:35 AM
 *To:* ozDotNet; Grant Holliday
 *Subject:* RE: TFS Build in the Cloud



 Grant?



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [
 mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On
 Behalf Of *Preet Sangha
 *Sent:* Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:01 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* TFS Build in the Cloud



 Does anyone know who would be the best person/team to contact at Microsoft
 in order to request some extra software (MS SSDT-BI components) be
 installed on the Azure based VisualStudio.com build servers?



 It seems that though SSDT is installed - SSDT-BI is still left out. In
 fact I'm completely open to the idea that it couldn't be installed due to
 some incompatibility - in which case I'd rather avoid going down the road
 of building my own build server simply to run into that road block!



 --
 regards,
 Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland




-- 
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

TFS Build in the Cloud

[Preet Sangha]

Does anyone know who would be the best person/team to contact at Microsoft
in order to request some extra software (MS SSDT-BI components) be
installed on the Azure based VisualStudio.com build servers?

It seems that though SSDT is installed - SSDT-BI is still left out. In fact
I'm completely open to the idea that it couldn't be installed due to some
incompatibility - in which case I'd rather avoid going down the road of
building my own build server simply to run into that road block!

-- 
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

RE: TFS Build in the Cloud

[David Kean]

Grant?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Preet Sangha
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 3:01 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: TFS Build in the Cloud

Does anyone know who would be the best person/team to contact at Microsoft in 
order to request some extra software (MS SSDT-BI components) be installed on 
the Azure based VisualStudio.com build servers?

It seems that though SSDT is installed - SSDT-BI is still left out. In fact I'm 
completely open to the idea that it couldn't be installed due to some 
incompatibility - in which case I'd rather avoid going down the road of 
building my own build server simply to run into that road block!

--
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

Re: Migrating TFS

[Scott Barnes]

Like I said, in some parts i'll call bullship! and in other you'd have to
say outloud yeah...my bad... ...

Learning for Silverlight = Poor.
Performance of Silverlight = Great (multi-threading, gpu/cpu access etc).
You just probably needed more guidance but even as I type this I hear
myself Yeah sure, blame the developer for not knowing how to run the
runtime...that's smart... and slowly let my eyes fall to the ground with a
mumbled ok...fine...our bad..
Debugging of Silverlight = Meh, depends on what methodology/framework
you're using to data snack between server  client. I've personally never
once ran into that issue and i'll even lump Silverlight for mobile into
that equation (XBOX Halo Waypoint for windows phone for example took a lot
of engineering muscle to take large XML packets into a phone from the XBOX
Live services team..which meant sucking it in, processing it inside the
phone and then displaying it...and that was early bits of Silverlight on
mobile..and still...debugging wasn't as bad as you outline...) .. that
being said... i lost credibility (didn't have much to begin with) when I
said depends on the framework/methodology ...which translates for me to
derp derp barnes, you're a jerk, derp derp :)

Productivity games i'll agree with. If you've never really gotten used to
plugin development in terms of RIA (what we kids used to call it). It's a
complete 180 in terms of behaviour traits in developers, as I noticed that
even in Flash/Flex circles often developers would echo the fatal words ahh
screw this, i'm going back to my comfort blanket HTML/JS.. as at least the
mediocrity is stabilized and time is slower for them to figure out state
management and datagrids are solved with big fat TABLE tags (oh sorry, now
its div tags with CSS hacks) (Yes I roll my eyes at HTML/JS) :)

Bah.. i think about the whole first years of Silverlight and i wish I had
have pushed harder on a select few to stop being jerks and listen to the
needs of a few other people to get funding so we could fix this crap and
then I still come back to a conversation I had once with the leadership
team around Well...what happens if we do beat Flash... to which one said
Well we'd break the glass, take the briefcase out, open the envelope and
inside it would read - Congrats, now burn this plugin and focus on IE

So it was inevitable i guess :) (I think i'm up to Stage 5 of Silverlight
Grief).


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote:

 Alright I pay some of that. Within the corporate environment I was in for
 the major project, we were also coding on 32 bit machines. We had
 continuous memory overflow issues, which we raise to MS and were told it
 wasn't going to be fixed because it was 32 bit issues. Together with the
 crashes and pauses caused by switching to visual XAML view, development
 became a major hastle. We eventually had to turn off visual view for
 stability reasons.



 As for the async stuff. Yes, async is always going to be hard to debug,
 but for some reason, it was even harder in Silverlight. Sure, if you get
 the pattern right you shouldn't have any major problems overall, but having
 to use fiddler to do simple diagnosis, a third party tool, was bizarre.



 In the end, when we looked at the stats, we found that developers were
 heaps less productive with Silverlight than with web apps. It actually took
 an embarrassing long time for people to get a Silverlight app debugged
 relative to a web app. What took a week or two to do in web seemed to take
 a month in Silverlight. We can talk all we want about the reasons for that,
 and what gaps existed in developer Silverlight knowledge, but the reality
 was that this became irrelevant with a significant team of developers. It
 just took them far too long to learn and develop.







 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:26 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Yeah i'm calling Spacer Problem on your issues described (ie the space
 between Silverlight and you). Everything you've outlined can be distilled
 into We haven't yet figured out how deep linking as a concept works
 because we're used to HTTP handling that burden for us through to Async
 is hard stuff

 Devs tweaked XAML because some idiot in the Visual Studio team decided to
 let devs access XAML natively in the tooling, but forget to check off the
 performance issues that come with Design vs XAML view. It was a conditioned
 response to that problem and given XAML was really never meant to be a code
 centric workflow it just baffles the mind at times as to who was actually
 in charge of that mission and how they justified it to business reviews we
 had. Blend was also a huge issue given they had zero time for Ux
 stabilisation(s) and no real investment was given to that team to make it
 User Friendly

Re: Migrating TFS

[Grant Maw]

Greg and Greg : +100 to your sentiments.
David Kean : does this answer your question?


On 12 February 2014 16:54, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.comwrote:

 I do not think this was directed at me but here goes...


 Start rant


 @#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I
 spent a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time
 and money, all now just wasted!


 Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for
 their line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take
 on Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool.


 I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all
 mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to
 future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and
 Android.


 I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I
 would do most LOB apps with Silverlight.


 Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you
 have lost credibility, I do not trust you!  Probably more fool me for ever
 trusting you!


 Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring
 Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side
 development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20
 years into the future.


 End rant


 Regards

 Greg Harris


 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

 Greg? Where are you?
 This is your cue.


 Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and
 abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large
 Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the
 app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally.

 What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year
 pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on
 the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it
 just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with
 the ComponentOne SL libraries.

 Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I
 agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly
 about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest
 groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and
 chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's
 articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone.

 My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and
 unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code
 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work,
 samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I
 have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM
 problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the
 things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss
 punch cards.

 However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom
 that pervades this forum ;-)

 Greg

Re: Migrating TFS

[Grant Maw]

Here's 
somethinghttp://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2014/02/11/satya-nadellas-to-do-list.aspxfrom
VS Magazine's website that might be of interest. The article
arrogantly lays out a laundry list of things for the new CEO to look at.
Unlikely he'll ever see this or take any notice of it, but it demonstrates
the level of dissatisfaction that I and others are trying to articulate.

This paragraph is number 1 on the list.

*1. Patch things up with developers. Let's be clear: killing Silverlight
was hugely damaging to relations between developers and Microsoft. Today,
Windows 8 development makes .NET developers feel less at-home than they
once did, and side loading line-of-business apps is hard and expensive. Not
only does Microsoft need to get its developer stack solidified, it needs
more transparency around .NET, including an explicit roadmap going out
several years. Killing Silverlight and deemphasizing WPF made developers
very insecure. Microsoft need to take extraordinary confidence-building
measures to make them feel safe and loyal again.*




On 12 February 2014 21:21, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Greg and Greg : +100 to your sentiments.
 David Kean : does this answer your question?


 On 12 February 2014 16:54, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.comwrote:

 I do not think this was directed at me but here goes...


 Start rant


 @#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I
 spent a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time
 and money, all now just wasted!


 Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for
 their line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take
 on Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool.


 I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all
 mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to
 future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and
 Android.


 I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I
 would do most LOB apps with Silverlight.


 Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you
 have lost credibility, I do not trust you!  Probably more fool me for ever
 trusting you!


 Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring
 Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side
 development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20
 years into the future.


 End rant


 Regards

 Greg Harris


 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

 Greg? Where are you?
 This is your cue.


 Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and
 abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large
 Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the
 app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally.

 What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year
 pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on
 the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it
 just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with
 the ComponentOne SL libraries.

 Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and
 I agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly
 about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest
 groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and
 chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's
 articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone.

 My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and
 unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code
 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work,
 samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I
 have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM
 problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the
 things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss
 punch cards.

 However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom
 that pervades this forum ;-)

 Greg

Re: Migrating TFS

[Greg Keogh]

Hi Greg H

I certainly agree that Silverlight is/was a great way to deliver impressive
apps in the desktop browser. Because it was XAML and C# I barely had to
learn anything new, I could sit down and churn it out (once you knocked
through all the security walls of course). I know you put a lot of effort
into Silverlight, we were all impressed with your timeline visualisation.

Does anyone know what the official lifetime of Silverlight is? Have
releases and updates simply stopped so that it will quietly go stale and
extinct on its own? Is there an official date for end of support? I ask
because we are still writing and releasing significant apps and customers
are going to ask us if Silverlight is dead (some already have apparently).

What's the alternative to Silverlight for delivering browser apps with rich
graphics and charts? Have options improved in the last year?

*Greg K*


On 12 February 2014 17:54, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.comwrote:

 I do not think this was directed at me but here goes...


 Start rant


 @#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I
 spent a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time
 and money, all now just wasted!


 Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for
 their line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take
 on Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool.


 I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all
 mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to
 future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and
 Android.


 I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I
 would do most LOB apps with Silverlight.


 Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you
 have lost credibility, I do not trust you!  Probably more fool me for ever
 trusting you!


 Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring
 Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side
 development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20
 years into the future.


 End rant


 Regards

 Greg Harris


 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

 Greg? Where are you?
 This is your cue.


 Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and
 abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large
 Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the
 app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally.

 What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year
 pointed out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on
 the browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it
 just can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with
 the ComponentOne SL libraries.

 Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I
 agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly
 about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest
 groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and
 chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's
 articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone.

 My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and
 unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code
 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work,
 samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I
 have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM
 problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the
 things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss
 punch cards.

 However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom
 that pervades this forum ;-)

 Greg

Re: Migrating TFS

[Scott Barnes]

Yes its 20years support (silverlight). Nearly all products get 20yr support
from Microsoft as it has something to do with overarching Military/Govt
contract agreements etc.

I'm one of the people that's declared WPF/Silverlight dead and you will not
get an official response from Microsoft so you need to let go of that idea
aswell.

Silverlight is dead as long as the plugin is installable and visual studio
can support its project(s) but dead as in future momentum / growth, yes.
It''s a Zombie, the body is still moving around but the brain isn't
functioning anymore.

Just because you're working on Silverlight today doesn't mean anything,
I've got 10 guys right now working on WinForms but do we really want to
entertain the idea that WinForms is still relevant in future Microsoft
roadmaps or should we call it dead and move on.

There is no alternative and that's why this crap we have HTML/JS is getting
beyond the magnitude of stupidity, as its like the ELSE statement in the IF
RIA == Alive logic, it's the retreat point to when good ideas go bad and we
have to say out loud Well.. i guess we could go for breadth user
experience and ignore depth user experience in our app development.

Am I excited at the prospect that Silverlight has no future, no.. i
dedicated 3 years of my life to that product and i'm just as pissed if not
more pissed off about the stupidity of Sinofsky than probably most people
on the planet :) (in fact you can see my back and forth argument with Steve
on the weekend https://twitter.com/MossyBlog/status/432319248514289664)

I suspect going forward if the rumours i'm hearing are true, that they'll
take the XAML runtime from Windows 8 and move the IP down to the Windows 7
via an update or something to that affect. Basically they'll try and get
Windows 7 developers to start targeting the new UI namespaces in their UX
development which will unlock that bridge between Old and New...resulting
in getting Windows 8 pull through ...

Now although that will suck initially as it won't help existing WPF/SL
solutions that use the old way of doing things it will however at least
start to unlock some more possibilities in that area. Having seen a years+
development on WPF and Silverlight for some very expensive products here at
work (multimillion dollar deployments etc) I can't say it would be a
welcome solution but if they abandon the new namespaces for the existing
ones then the will also kill growth for Windows 8 - which isn't an option
especially with a new CEO.

Again that's just spitball / speculation.


---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

 Hi Greg H

 I certainly agree that Silverlight is/was a great way to deliver
 impressive apps in the desktop browser. Because it was XAML and C# I barely
 had to learn anything new, I could sit down and churn it out (once you
 knocked through all the security walls of course). I know you put a lot of
 effort into Silverlight, we were all impressed with your timeline
 visualisation.

 Does anyone know what the official lifetime of Silverlight is? Have
 releases and updates simply stopped so that it will quietly go stale and
 extinct on its own? Is there an official date for end of support? I ask
 because we are still writing and releasing significant apps and customers
 are going to ask us if Silverlight is dead (some already have apparently).

 What's the alternative to Silverlight for delivering browser apps with
 rich graphics and charts? Have options improved in the last year?

 *Greg K*


 On 12 February 2014 17:54, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.comwrote:

 I do not think this was directed at me but here goes...


 Start rant


 @#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I
 spent a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time
 and money, all now just wasted!


 Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for
 their line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take
 on Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool.


 I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all
 mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to
 future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and
 Android.


 I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I
 would do most LOB apps with Silverlight.


 Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you
 have lost credibility, I do not trust you!  Probably more fool me for ever
 trusting you!


 Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring
 Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side
 development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20
 years into the future.


 End rant


 Regards

 Greg Harris


 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

RE: Migrating TFS

[Tony Wright]

I was another who spend an awful lot of time learning Silverlight. Used it
on a major international project going out to a whole lot of clients where
we couldn't control the browsers that they use. We'd finally just got on top
of all the Silverlight quirks and MVVM when Silverlight was first declared
dead. So many hours invested. 1000s of hours per dev. We were majorly
peeved.

 

But in hindsight, I understand. XAML looks great when done right, but it's
complicated and inefficient to code in. Real devs spent their time tweaking
the raw XAML. Not ideal.

 

Then there's the brittleness of Silverlight. One little bug gets through and
the whole Silverlight app needs to be reset. There's no recovering by
hitting the back button either. It's nearly always a complete restart of the
app, and there's no guarantee you're not going to hit that point again.

 

Debugging was crap as well. Oh, let's get fiddler out and see what's going
on because the app itself isn't showing anything in the exception handlers.
Duh.

 

So now I've moved to MVC with Entity Framework and whatever flavour
Javascript library seems to be popular at the moment . Believe me, it's a
much happier environment to be coding in. You don't have to bitch as much.
One page might fail, but it doesn't bring the entire app down.

 

As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data
visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like
with any graph generator, but they're pretty good.

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 10:31 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS

 

Yes its 20years support (silverlight). Nearly all products get 20yr support
from Microsoft as it has something to do with overarching Military/Govt
contract agreements etc.

 

I'm one of the people that's declared WPF/Silverlight dead and you will not
get an official response from Microsoft so you need to let go of that idea
aswell.

Silverlight is dead as long as the plugin is installable and visual studio
can support its project(s) but dead as in future momentum / growth, yes.
It''s a Zombie, the body is still moving around but the brain isn't
functioning anymore. 

Just because you're working on Silverlight today doesn't mean anything, I've
got 10 guys right now working on WinForms but do we really want to entertain
the idea that WinForms is still relevant in future Microsoft roadmaps or
should we call it dead and move on. 

There is no alternative and that's why this crap we have HTML/JS is getting
beyond the magnitude of stupidity, as its like the ELSE statement in the IF
RIA == Alive logic, it's the retreat point to when good ideas go bad and we
have to say out loud Well.. i guess we could go for breadth user experience
and ignore depth user experience in our app development.

Am I excited at the prospect that Silverlight has no future, no.. i
dedicated 3 years of my life to that product and i'm just as pissed if not
more pissed off about the stupidity of Sinofsky than probably most people on
the planet :) (in fact you can see my back and forth argument with Steve on
the weekend https://twitter.com/MossyBlog/status/432319248514289664)

I suspect going forward if the rumours i'm hearing are true, that they'll
take the XAML runtime from Windows 8 and move the IP down to the Windows 7
via an update or something to that affect. Basically they'll try and get
Windows 7 developers to start targeting the new UI namespaces in their UX
development which will unlock that bridge between Old and New...resulting in
getting Windows 8 pull through ...

Now although that will suck initially as it won't help existing WPF/SL
solutions that use the old way of doing things it will however at least
start to unlock some more possibilities in that area. Having seen a years+
development on WPF and Silverlight for some very expensive products here at
work (multimillion dollar deployments etc) I can't say it would be a welcome
solution but if they abandon the new namespaces for the existing ones then
the will also kill growth for Windows 8 - which isn't an option especially
with a new CEO. 

Again that's just spitball / speculation.

 




---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 8:20 AM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net
mailto:g...@mira.net  wrote:

Hi Greg H

 

I certainly agree that Silverlight is/was a great way to deliver impressive
apps in the desktop browser. Because it was XAML and C# I barely had to
learn anything new, I could sit down and churn it out (once you knocked
through all the security walls of course). I know you put a lot of effort
into Silverlight, we were all impressed with your timeline visualisation.

 

Does anyone know what the official lifetime of Silverlight is? Have releases
and updates simply stopped so that it will quietly go stale and extinct on
its own? Is there an official date for end

Re: Migrating TFS

[Greg Keogh]

 As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data
 visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like
 with any graph generator, but they're pretty good.


Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript
via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list 
g...@mira.net if it's okay -- Greg

Re: Migrating TFS

[Paul Evrat]

I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it ..



 Original message 
From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net 
Date:  
To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com 
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS 
 
As for the graphs – I’m using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data 
visualisation tools. They’re ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like 
with any graph generator, but they’re pretty good.


Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript via 
Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list g...@mira.net if 
it's okay -- Greg

Re: Migrating TFS

[Greg Harris]

+1 for I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it ..


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Paul Evrat p...@paulevrat.com wrote:


 I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it ..




  Original message 
 From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net
 Date:
 To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
 Subject: Re: Migrating TFS


  As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and
 data visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances,
 like with any graph generator, but they're pretty good.


 Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and
 JavaScript via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list 
 g...@mira.net if it's okay -- Greg

RE: Migrating TFS

[Tony Wright]

Telerik have fully functioning demos at:
http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-ui/dataviz/pie-charts/index.html 

 

If you get their trial, you get all the demo code, so you can fiddle with it
to get it to behave exactly the way you want. Each graph also has the code
for how they produced the demo at the bottom of the screen.

 

The graphs are more than just rendered images - you can mouseover the points
and get tooltips popping up, for example, and there are animations.

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Greg Harris
Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:21 PM
To: Paul Evrat; ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS

 

+1 for I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it ..

 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Paul Evrat p...@paulevrat.com
mailto:p...@paulevrat.com  wrote:

 

I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it ..

 




 Original message 
From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net  
Date: 
To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com  
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS 



As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data
visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like
with any graph generator, but they're pretty good.

 

Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript
via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list
g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net  if it's okay -- Greg

 

 

Re: Migrating TFS

[Scott Barnes]

Yeah i'm calling Spacer Problem on your issues described (ie the space
between Silverlight and you). Everything you've outlined can be distilled
into We haven't yet figured out how deep linking as a concept works
because we're used to HTTP handling that burden for us through to Async
is hard stuff

Devs tweaked XAML because some idiot in the Visual Studio team decided to
let devs access XAML natively in the tooling, but forget to check off the
performance issues that come with Design vs XAML view. It was a conditioned
response to that problem and given XAML was really never meant to be a code
centric workflow it just baffles the mind at times as to who was actually
in charge of that mission and how they justified it to business reviews we
had. Blend was also a huge issue given they had zero time for Ux
stabilisation(s) and no real investment was given to that team to make it
User Friendly - even thought the target audiences were always that
designer with dev experience background(s) who are hyper sensitive to bad
Ux (What could possibly go wrong with this vision of the future).

Silverlight also had a really crappy onboarding process, where we basically
walked up to the entire .NET community, kicked the crutch out from
underneath them and kept giving confused looks when they'd keep falling
over... that is the whole learning process for Silverlight was spread
throughout the web and burried deep within random bloggers who didn't
always update their tutorials to breaking changes, silverlight forums and /
or some random hack training you on best practices for Silverlight which
really had no official sponsorship from Microsoft. As a Product Manager all
I had was one question How experienced are my audience? with Silverlight
...level 100 - 300 breakdowns and i kept getting confused starry eyed
looks like Why does that matter? .. i needed to know how deep the
features were being used, what issues tooling is having with features,
which features should we keep investing in and which ones should we
depricate etc.. but like most things at Microsoft it was Oooh look Shiney
object.. (ie new release each 9 months).

That being said, you have the capabilities to do a lot of plausible and
high performance driven solutions with but it always came back to You
don't know what you don't know and with Silverlight thats its weak legacy
but to say it's brittle or it couldn't' do xyz.. you're going to have
to accept my pepsi challenge on that one as I see it much differently :) -
i was tempted to say But you're doing it wrong but i know how combative
that remark can get heheh :)




---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com


On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I was another who spend an awful lot of time learning Silverlight. Used it
 on a major international project going out to a whole lot of clients where
 we couldn't control the browsers that they use. We'd finally just got on
 top of all the Silverlight quirks and MVVM when Silverlight was first
 declared dead. So many hours invested. 1000s of hours per dev. We were
 majorly peeved.



 But in hindsight, I understand. XAML looks great when done right, but it's
 complicated and inefficient to code in. Real devs spent their time tweaking
 the raw XAML. Not ideal.



 Then there's the brittleness of Silverlight. One little bug gets through
 and the whole Silverlight app needs to be reset. There's no recovering by
 hitting the back button either. It's nearly always a complete restart of
 the app, and there's no guarantee you're not going to hit that point again.



 Debugging was crap as well. Oh, let's get fiddler out and see what's going
 on because the app itself isn't showing anything in the exception handlers.
 Duh.



 So now I've moved to MVC with Entity Framework and whatever flavour
 Javascript library seems to be popular at the moment . Believe me, it's a
 much happier environment to be coding in. You don't have to bitch as much.
 One page might fail, but it doesn't bring the entire app down.



 As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data
 visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like
 with any graph generator, but they're pretty good.



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Scott Barnes
 *Sent:* Thursday, 13 February 2014 10:31 AM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Yes its 20years support (silverlight). Nearly all products get 20yr
 support from Microsoft as it has something to do with overarching
 Military/Govt contract agreements etc.



 I'm one of the people that's declared WPF/Silverlight dead and you will
 not get an official response from Microsoft so you need to let go of that
 idea aswell.

 Silverlight is dead as long as the plugin is installable and visual studio
 can support its project(s) but dead as in future momentum / growth, yes.
 It''s a Zombie, the body is still moving

RE: Migrating TFS

[Tony Wright]

Alright I pay some of that. Within the corporate environment I was in for
the major project, we were also coding on 32 bit machines. We had continuous
memory overflow issues, which we raise to MS and were told it wasn't going
to be fixed because it was 32 bit issues. Together with the crashes and
pauses caused by switching to visual XAML view, development became a major
hastle. We eventually had to turn off visual view for stability reasons.

 

As for the async stuff. Yes, async is always going to be hard to debug, but
for some reason, it was even harder in Silverlight. Sure, if you get the
pattern right you shouldn't have any major problems overall, but having to
use fiddler to do simple diagnosis, a third party tool, was bizarre. 

 

In the end, when we looked at the stats, we found that developers were heaps
less productive with Silverlight than with web apps. It actually took an
embarrassing long time for people to get a Silverlight app debugged relative
to a web app. What took a week or two to do in web seemed to take a month in
Silverlight. We can talk all we want about the reasons for that, and what
gaps existed in developer Silverlight knowledge, but the reality was that
this became irrelevant with a significant team of developers. It just took
them far too long to learn and develop.

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Scott Barnes
Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:26 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS

 

Yeah i'm calling Spacer Problem on your issues described (ie the space
between Silverlight and you). Everything you've outlined can be distilled
into We haven't yet figured out how deep linking as a concept works because
we're used to HTTP handling that burden for us through to Async is hard
stuff

Devs tweaked XAML because some idiot in the Visual Studio team decided to
let devs access XAML natively in the tooling, but forget to check off the
performance issues that come with Design vs XAML view. It was a conditioned
response to that problem and given XAML was really never meant to be a code
centric workflow it just baffles the mind at times as to who was actually in
charge of that mission and how they justified it to business reviews we had.
Blend was also a huge issue given they had zero time for Ux stabilisation(s)
and no real investment was given to that team to make it User Friendly -
even thought the target audiences were always that designer with dev
experience background(s) who are hyper sensitive to bad Ux (What could
possibly go wrong with this vision of the future).

Silverlight also had a really crappy onboarding process, where we basically
walked up to the entire .NET community, kicked the crutch out from
underneath them and kept giving confused looks when they'd keep falling
over... that is the whole learning process for Silverlight was spread
throughout the web and burried deep within random bloggers who didn't always
update their tutorials to breaking changes, silverlight forums and / or some
random hack training you on best practices for Silverlight which really
had no official sponsorship from Microsoft. As a Product Manager all I had
was one question How experienced are my audience? with Silverlight ...level
100 - 300 breakdowns and i kept getting confused starry eyed looks like
Why does that matter? .. i needed to know how deep the features were being
used, what issues tooling is having with features, which features should we
keep investing in and which ones should we depricate etc.. but like most
things at Microsoft it was Oooh look Shiney object.. (ie new release each
9 months).

That being said, you have the capabilities to do a lot of plausible and high
performance driven solutions with but it always came back to You don't know
what you don't know and with Silverlight thats its weak legacy but to say
it's brittle or it couldn't' do xyz.. you're going to have to accept my
pepsi challenge on that one as I see it much differently :) - i was tempted
to say But you're doing it wrong but i know how combative that remark can
get heheh :)







---
Regards,
Scott Barnes
http://www.riagenic.com

 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Tony Wright tonyw...@gmail.com
mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com  wrote:

I was another who spend an awful lot of time learning Silverlight. Used it
on a major international project going out to a whole lot of clients where
we couldn't control the browsers that they use. We'd finally just got on top
of all the Silverlight quirks and MVVM when Silverlight was first declared
dead. So many hours invested. 1000s of hours per dev. We were majorly
peeved.

 

But in hindsight, I understand. XAML looks great when done right, but it's
complicated and inefficient to code in. Real devs spent their time tweaking
the raw XAML. Not ideal.

 

Then there's the brittleness of Silverlight. One little bug gets through and
the whole Silverlight app needs to be reset. There's no recovering by
hitting

RE: Migrating TFS

[Tony Wright]

One more thing: I did have a problem with Area Charts. IMO the area charts
look superior to simple line charts. But when I implemented the area charts,
you can only plot a single y point per x-axis value. This meant that on some
of my graphs, it looked terrible as they weren't smooth. Of course, I tried
to trick the area chart by adding a lot more x-axis values, but it was never
a really satisfying solution. 

 

So I ended up moving to a scatter line. Scatter line graphs allow you to
plot points on the graph independently of the x and y axis. So I could
significantly increase the granularity of chart making the line a lot
smoother. But I lost the shading of the area below the line in doing that.
It was a bit disappointing.

 

 

From: Tony Wright [mailto:tonyw...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:26 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'; 'Paul Evrat'
Subject: RE: Migrating TFS

 

Telerik have fully functioning demos at:
http://demos.telerik.com/kendo-ui/dataviz/pie-charts/index.html 

 

If you get their trial, you get all the demo code, so you can fiddle with it
to get it to behave exactly the way you want. Each graph also has the code
for how they produced the demo at the bottom of the screen.

 

The graphs are more than just rendered images - you can mouseover the points
and get tooltips popping up, for example, and there are animations.

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Harris
Sent: Thursday, 13 February 2014 12:21 PM
To: Paul Evrat; ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS

 

+1 for I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it ..

 

On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 12:05 PM, Paul Evrat p...@paulevrat.com
mailto:p...@paulevrat.com  wrote:

 

I'd like to see those graphs also if you are happy to group it ..

 




 Original message 
From: Greg Keogh g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net  
Date: 
To: ozDotNet ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com  
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS 

As for the graphs - I'm using the Kendo (which is Telerik) graphs and data
visualisation tools. They're ok, and there are a couple of annoyances, like
with any graph generator, but they're pretty good.

 

Tony, I'm really curious to see how graphs come out in HTML and JavaScript
via Kendo, is it possible to see a sample? Contact me off-list
g...@mira.net mailto:g...@mira.net  if it's okay -- Greg

 

 

RE: Migrating TFS

[Paul Glavich]

We moved from a 3rd party hosted full TFS instance to TFS Online however we
only use the work items, not source control(I prefer mercurial/git).

 

It was a little painfull as we had used some customisation to
fields/templates.

 

However, it was *mostly* ok (if a little time consuming). I just got the
entire backlog into Excel. Did the same the TFS online, copy common fields
from one excel sheet to another, publish to TFS online. This got us an easy
80-85% there. Other stuff was customised or had some other weirdness we had
to look into but not too bad. We kept the old instance going while we did
some sanity checks and ensured all was ok.

 

BTW, TFSOnline is great. Love the web interface and use it instead of the VS
integration.

 

-  Glav

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: 11 February 2014 6:57 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS

 

Grant,

I did a migration from a one TFS server to another and it was a horrible
experience. I don't recall the tool I used but I had the added complication
of using a different Template on the destination server and it was trying to
migrate loads of mismatching fields. The source control was ok and history
seemed to work. The work items were sketchy with lots not migrated. We ended
up keeping the old TFS server about in read only for reference.

 

Good job going to the cloud, I use Visual Studio online for my own stuff and
its brilliant. Shame they don't make it easier to migrate into. 

 

cheers,

Stephen

p.s. if you need help with it let me know ;)

 

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com
mailto:grant@gmail.com  wrote:

Thanks Anthony. We're not worried about work items, just source code and
history at this point, including branches. The TFS Integration Platform is
beavering away as I write this (trying it out on a test copy of the
project), telling me that 176 of 335 change groups have been migrated.

I guess I'll just let it run and see where it lands me.

 

On 11 February 2014 15:40, Anthony Borton antho...@enhancealm.com.au
mailto:antho...@enhancealm.com.au  wrote:

Hi Grant,

 

I moved a client with around 35 team projects from an on-premises TFS up to
Visual Studio Online using the TFS Integration Platform. I was pretty lucky
in that they only needed the source to go up and didn't have work items to
work about. The process was quite a bit more time consuming than I had
planned and it was a seemingly never-ending exercise in massaging settings
to get the source (with history) from each TP up to the cloud. A future TFS
2013 update should include a feature to help move data from VSO down to TFS
but I haven't heard if there is anything there to help go the other way.

 

Cheers

 

Anthony Borton

Senior ALM Trainer/Consultant

Visual Studio ALM MVP

Enhance ALM Pty Ltd

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
] On Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Tuesday, 11 February 2014 3:07 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Migrating TFS

 

Hi All

Has anyone moved from on-premises TFS to visual studio online? We have a
large solution, including branches, that needs to be pushed into the cloud
as soon as possible and I'd love to hear any war stories before I start.

I'm thinking about using the tool at http://tfsintegration.codeplex.com/.

Cheers

Grant

 

 

Re: Migrating TFS

[Grant Maw]

Thanks all for the responses. Ran a test yesterday and it failed due to a
one file in our project which it kept getting stuck on, trying over and
over again to process this file but it kept on failing.

I removed this file from the project (it was non-essential and we can
re-add it again later if we need to), and tried again. This time it ran
through without errors and told me that it had finished, after about 10
seconds! Needless to say that nothing was transferred.

It seems I have more reading to do on this. But yes, I am also a bit
mystified at why they don't make it easier to migrate to the cloud
environment. Surely that would have to have been one of these first things
they considered. Wouldn't it?




On 12 February 2014 05:31, Paul Glavich subscripti...@theglavs.com wrote:

 We moved from a 3rd party hosted full TFS instance to TFS Online however
 we only use the work items, not source control(I prefer mercurial/git).



 It was a little painfull as we had used some customisation to
 fields/templates.



 However, it was **mostly** ok (if a little time consuming). I just got
 the entire backlog into Excel. Did the same the TFS online, copy common
 fields from one excel sheet to another, publish to TFS online. This got us
 an easy 80-85% there. Other stuff was customised or had some other
 weirdness we had to look into but not too bad. We kept the old instance
 going while we did some sanity checks and ensured all was ok.



 BTW, TFSOnline is great. Love the web interface and use it instead of the
 VS integration.



 -  Glav



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* 11 February 2014 6:57 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Grant,

 I did a migration from a one TFS server to another and it was a horrible
 experience. I don't recall the tool I used but I had the added complication
 of using a different Template on the destination server and it was trying
 to migrate loads of mismatching fields. The source control was ok and
 history seemed to work. The work items were sketchy with lots not migrated.
 We ended up keeping the old TFS server about in read only for reference.



 Good job going to the cloud, I use Visual Studio online for my own stuff
 and its brilliant. Shame they don't make it easier to migrate into.



 cheers,

 Stephen

 p.s. if you need help with it let me know ;)



 On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks Anthony. We're not worried about work items, just source code and
 history at this point, including branches. The TFS Integration Platform is
 beavering away as I write this (trying it out on a test copy of the
 project), telling me that 176 of 335 change groups have been migrated.

 I guess I'll just let it run and see where it lands me.



 On 11 February 2014 15:40, Anthony Borton antho...@enhancealm.com.au
 wrote:

 Hi Grant,



 I moved a client with around 35 team projects from an on-premises TFS up
 to Visual Studio Online using the TFS Integration Platform. I was pretty
 lucky in that they only needed the source to go up and didn't have work
 items to work about. The process was quite a bit more time consuming than I
 had planned and it was a seemingly never-ending exercise in massaging
 settings to get the source (with history) from each TP up to the cloud. A
 future TFS 2013 update should include a feature to help move data from VSO
 down to TFS but I haven't heard if there is anything there to help go the
 other way.



 Cheers



 Anthony Borton

 Senior ALM Trainer/Consultant

 Visual Studio ALM MVP

 Enhance ALM Pty Ltd



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw
 *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 February 2014 3:07 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Migrating TFS



 Hi All

 Has anyone moved from on-premises TFS to visual studio online? We have a
 large solution, including branches, that needs to be pushed into the cloud
 as soon as possible and I'd love to hear any war stories before I start.

 I'm thinking about using the tool at http://tfsintegration.codeplex.com/.

 Cheers

 Grant

Re: Migrating TFS

[Grant Maw]

Update : the TFS Integration tool has proven to be completely useless. It
just doesn't do what it says on the tin, not in this case anyway. Even when
I could get it sort of working it kept throwing inexplicable exceptions.

I'm migrating the current cut of the source code manually and recreating my
branches. We'll lose our history, but better that than wasting days on end
fighting with these 2nd rate tools.

If Visual Studio itself wasn't the best IDE out there, we would migrate
away to other platforms I think. Developer support in general just isn't
good enough within Microsoft any longer, and unless you are working with
the latest shiny new thing they don't seem to care.


On 12 February 2014 09:18, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks all for the responses. Ran a test yesterday and it failed due to a
 one file in our project which it kept getting stuck on, trying over and
 over again to process this file but it kept on failing.

 I removed this file from the project (it was non-essential and we can
 re-add it again later if we need to), and tried again. This time it ran
 through without errors and told me that it had finished, after about 10
 seconds! Needless to say that nothing was transferred.

 It seems I have more reading to do on this. But yes, I am also a bit
 mystified at why they don't make it easier to migrate to the cloud
 environment. Surely that would have to have been one of these first things
 they considered. Wouldn't it?




 On 12 February 2014 05:31, Paul Glavich subscripti...@theglavs.comwrote:

 We moved from a 3rd party hosted full TFS instance to TFS Online however
 we only use the work items, not source control(I prefer mercurial/git).



 It was a little painfull as we had used some customisation to
 fields/templates.



 However, it was **mostly** ok (if a little time consuming). I just got
 the entire backlog into Excel. Did the same the TFS online, copy common
 fields from one excel sheet to another, publish to TFS online. This got us
 an easy 80-85% there. Other stuff was customised or had some other
 weirdness we had to look into but not too bad. We kept the old instance
 going while we did some sanity checks and ensured all was ok.



 BTW, TFSOnline is great. Love the web interface and use it instead of the
 VS integration.



 -  Glav



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* 11 February 2014 6:57 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Grant,

 I did a migration from a one TFS server to another and it was a horrible
 experience. I don't recall the tool I used but I had the added complication
 of using a different Template on the destination server and it was trying
 to migrate loads of mismatching fields. The source control was ok and
 history seemed to work. The work items were sketchy with lots not migrated.
 We ended up keeping the old TFS server about in read only for reference.



 Good job going to the cloud, I use Visual Studio online for my own stuff
 and its brilliant. Shame they don't make it easier to migrate into.



 cheers,

 Stephen

 p.s. if you need help with it let me know ;)



 On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks Anthony. We're not worried about work items, just source code and
 history at this point, including branches. The TFS Integration Platform is
 beavering away as I write this (trying it out on a test copy of the
 project), telling me that 176 of 335 change groups have been migrated.

 I guess I'll just let it run and see where it lands me.



 On 11 February 2014 15:40, Anthony Borton antho...@enhancealm.com.au
 wrote:

 Hi Grant,



 I moved a client with around 35 team projects from an on-premises TFS up
 to Visual Studio Online using the TFS Integration Platform. I was pretty
 lucky in that they only needed the source to go up and didn't have work
 items to work about. The process was quite a bit more time consuming than I
 had planned and it was a seemingly never-ending exercise in massaging
 settings to get the source (with history) from each TP up to the cloud. A
 future TFS 2013 update should include a feature to help move data from VSO
 down to TFS but I haven't heard if there is anything there to help go the
 other way.



 Cheers



 Anthony Borton

 Senior ALM Trainer/Consultant

 Visual Studio ALM MVP

 Enhance ALM Pty Ltd



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw
 *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 February 2014 3:07 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Migrating TFS



 Hi All

 Has anyone moved from on-premises TFS to visual studio online? We have a
 large solution, including branches, that needs to be pushed into the cloud
 as soon as possible and I'd love to hear any war stories before I start.

 I'm thinking about using the tool at http://tfsintegration.codeplex.com/.

 Cheers

 Grant

Re: Migrating TFS

[Stephen Price]

Unfortunately, I agree.

I do see some work done on things like ASP.Net (in an MVC focused world).
It would be nice if they did focus on the old stuff as much as the new but
I guess they have to balance things. No point in supporting old things that
no one uses any more.
Software moves so fast, they invent things faster than anyone can learn it.
The bleeding edge hurts, always having to solve problems no one has hit
before. The old stuff is boring and has been done to death.
That said its the boring stuff that makes up 80% of the code so you can't
ignore it.

Microsoft, if you are listening, you have some damaged reputation that
needs repairing. Do you even code? (hehe. I was going to write do you even
lift?)

They need to speak with Greg K, I'm sure he has a few things to say about
the matter. ;)



On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Update : the TFS Integration tool has proven to be completely useless. It
 just doesn't do what it says on the tin, not in this case anyway. Even when
 I could get it sort of working it kept throwing inexplicable exceptions.

 I'm migrating the current cut of the source code manually and recreating
 my branches. We'll lose our history, but better that than wasting days on
 end fighting with these 2nd rate tools.

 If Visual Studio itself wasn't the best IDE out there, we would migrate
 away to other platforms I think. Developer support in general just isn't
 good enough within Microsoft any longer, and unless you are working with
 the latest shiny new thing they don't seem to care.


 On 12 February 2014 09:18, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks all for the responses. Ran a test yesterday and it failed due to a
 one file in our project which it kept getting stuck on, trying over and
 over again to process this file but it kept on failing.

 I removed this file from the project (it was non-essential and we can
 re-add it again later if we need to), and tried again. This time it ran
 through without errors and told me that it had finished, after about 10
 seconds! Needless to say that nothing was transferred.

 It seems I have more reading to do on this. But yes, I am also a bit
 mystified at why they don't make it easier to migrate to the cloud
 environment. Surely that would have to have been one of these first things
 they considered. Wouldn't it?




 On 12 February 2014 05:31, Paul Glavich subscripti...@theglavs.comwrote:

 We moved from a 3rd party hosted full TFS instance to TFS Online
 however we only use the work items, not source control(I prefer
 mercurial/git).



 It was a little painfull as we had used some customisation to
 fields/templates.



 However, it was **mostly** ok (if a little time consuming). I just got
 the entire backlog into Excel. Did the same the TFS online, copy common
 fields from one excel sheet to another, publish to TFS online. This got us
 an easy 80-85% there. Other stuff was customised or had some other
 weirdness we had to look into but not too bad. We kept the old instance
 going while we did some sanity checks and ensured all was ok.



 BTW, TFSOnline is great. Love the web interface and use it instead of
 the VS integration.



 -  Glav



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* 11 February 2014 6:57 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Grant,

 I did a migration from a one TFS server to another and it was a horrible
 experience. I don't recall the tool I used but I had the added complication
 of using a different Template on the destination server and it was trying
 to migrate loads of mismatching fields. The source control was ok and
 history seemed to work. The work items were sketchy with lots not migrated.
 We ended up keeping the old TFS server about in read only for reference.



 Good job going to the cloud, I use Visual Studio online for my own stuff
 and its brilliant. Shame they don't make it easier to migrate into.



 cheers,

 Stephen

 p.s. if you need help with it let me know ;)



 On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks Anthony. We're not worried about work items, just source code and
 history at this point, including branches. The TFS Integration Platform is
 beavering away as I write this (trying it out on a test copy of the
 project), telling me that 176 of 335 change groups have been migrated.

 I guess I'll just let it run and see where it lands me.



 On 11 February 2014 15:40, Anthony Borton antho...@enhancealm.com.au
 wrote:

 Hi Grant,



 I moved a client with around 35 team projects from an on-premises TFS up
 to Visual Studio Online using the TFS Integration Platform. I was pretty
 lucky in that they only needed the source to go up and didn't have work
 items to work about. The process was quite a bit more time consuming than I
 had planned and it was a seemingly never-ending exercise in massaging
 settings to get

RE: Migrating TFS

[David Kean]

(We code a lot :))

As a matter of interest, by old stuff what are we referring to? Stephen/Grant 
what technologies/versions are you working with?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:50 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS

Unfortunately, I agree.

I do see some work done on things like ASP.Net (in an MVC focused world). It 
would be nice if they did focus on the old stuff as much as the new but I guess 
they have to balance things. No point in supporting old things that no one uses 
any more.
Software moves so fast, they invent things faster than anyone can learn it. The 
bleeding edge hurts, always having to solve problems no one has hit before. The 
old stuff is boring and has been done to death.
That said its the boring stuff that makes up 80% of the code so you can't 
ignore it.

Microsoft, if you are listening, you have some damaged reputation that needs 
repairing. Do you even code? (hehe. I was going to write do you even lift?)

They need to speak with Greg K, I'm sure he has a few things to say about the 
matter. ;)


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Grant Maw 
grant@gmail.commailto:grant@gmail.com wrote:
Update : the TFS Integration tool has proven to be completely useless. It just 
doesn't do what it says on the tin, not in this case anyway. Even when I could 
get it sort of working it kept throwing inexplicable exceptions.

I'm migrating the current cut of the source code manually and recreating my 
branches. We'll lose our history, but better that than wasting days on end 
fighting with these 2nd rate tools.
If Visual Studio itself wasn't the best IDE out there, we would migrate away to 
other platforms I think. Developer support in general just isn't good enough 
within Microsoft any longer, and unless you are working with the latest shiny 
new thing they don't seem to care.

On 12 February 2014 09:18, Grant Maw 
grant@gmail.commailto:grant@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks all for the responses. Ran a test yesterday and it failed due to a one 
file in our project which it kept getting stuck on, trying over and over again 
to process this file but it kept on failing.
I removed this file from the project (it was non-essential and we can re-add it 
again later if we need to), and tried again. This time it ran through without 
errors and told me that it had finished, after about 10 seconds! Needless to 
say that nothing was transferred.
It seems I have more reading to do on this. But yes, I am also a bit mystified 
at why they don't make it easier to migrate to the cloud environment. Surely 
that would have to have been one of these first things they considered. 
Wouldn't it?


On 12 February 2014 05:31, Paul Glavich 
subscripti...@theglavs.commailto:subscripti...@theglavs.com wrote:
We moved from a 3rd party hosted full TFS instance to TFS Online however we 
only use the work items, not source control(I prefer mercurial/git).

It was a little painfull as we had used some customisation to fields/templates.

However, it was *mostly* ok (if a little time consuming). I just got the entire 
backlog into Excel. Did the same the TFS online, copy common fields from one 
excel sheet to another, publish to TFS online. This got us an easy 80-85% 
there. Other stuff was customised or had some other weirdness we had to look 
into but not too bad. We kept the old instance going while we did some sanity 
checks and ensured all was ok.

BTW, TFSOnline is great. Love the web interface and use it instead of the VS 
integration.


-  Glav

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Stephen Price
Sent: 11 February 2014 6:57 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Migrating TFS

Grant,
I did a migration from a one TFS server to another and it was a horrible 
experience. I don't recall the tool I used but I had the added complication of 
using a different Template on the destination server and it was trying to 
migrate loads of mismatching fields. The source control was ok and history 
seemed to work. The work items were sketchy with lots not migrated. We ended up 
keeping the old TFS server about in read only for reference.

Good job going to the cloud, I use Visual Studio online for my own stuff and 
its brilliant. Shame they don't make it easier to migrate into.

cheers,
Stephen
p.s. if you need help with it let me know ;)

On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Grant Maw 
grant@gmail.commailto:grant@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Anthony. We're not worried about work items, just source code and 
history at this point, including branches. The TFS Integration Platform is 
beavering away as I write this (trying it out on a test copy of the project), 
telling me that 176 of 335 change groups have been migrated.
I guess I'll just let it run and see where it lands me.

On 11 February 2014 15

Re: Migrating TFS

[Grant Maw]

...and it's not just this one instance. What they did with Silverlight was
a disgrace and cost a lot of developers dearly in terms of credibility with
customers and clients. I will personally never trust a Microsoft roadmap
again.

Apart from that, we're seeing crazy release schedules, useful features
being removed from new versions of products (and no explanation as to why),
and half finished products (like this TFS Integration tool and the early
incarnations of Azure to name just two examples) being put out there as a
result. MSDN magazine is a waste of time unless you are working with the
flavour of the month technologies and TechEd has become a thinly veiled
exercise in marketing.

It was not always thus. I do remember a time when dev support was second to
none, but not any longer. A lot of experienced talent has moved onto other
platforms now and we are all poorer for it.

I know that things move quickly but MS is big enough to walk AND chew gum
at the same time, so developing new things at the same time as providing
quality support for existing tech (which includes provision of adequate
tooling) shouldn't be as difficult as it appears to be.

I hope the new CEO understands these things.

Anyway, end of rant. I have to go and continue fighting with Visual Studio


On 12 February 2014 14:50, Stephen Price step...@perthprojects.com wrote:

 Unfortunately, I agree.

 I do see some work done on things like ASP.Net (in an MVC focused world).
 It would be nice if they did focus on the old stuff as much as the new but
 I guess they have to balance things. No point in supporting old things that
 no one uses any more.
 Software moves so fast, they invent things faster than anyone can learn
 it. The bleeding edge hurts, always having to solve problems no one has hit
 before. The old stuff is boring and has been done to death.
 That said its the boring stuff that makes up 80% of the code so you can't
 ignore it.

 Microsoft, if you are listening, you have some damaged reputation that
 needs repairing. Do you even code? (hehe. I was going to write do you even
 lift?)

 They need to speak with Greg K, I'm sure he has a few things to say about
 the matter. ;)



 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Update : the TFS Integration tool has proven to be completely useless. It
 just doesn't do what it says on the tin, not in this case anyway. Even when
 I could get it sort of working it kept throwing inexplicable exceptions.

 I'm migrating the current cut of the source code manually and recreating
 my branches. We'll lose our history, but better that than wasting days on
 end fighting with these 2nd rate tools.

 If Visual Studio itself wasn't the best IDE out there, we would migrate
 away to other platforms I think. Developer support in general just isn't
 good enough within Microsoft any longer, and unless you are working with
 the latest shiny new thing they don't seem to care.


 On 12 February 2014 09:18, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

 Thanks all for the responses. Ran a test yesterday and it failed due to
 a one file in our project which it kept getting stuck on, trying over and
 over again to process this file but it kept on failing.

 I removed this file from the project (it was non-essential and we can
 re-add it again later if we need to), and tried again. This time it ran
 through without errors and told me that it had finished, after about 10
 seconds! Needless to say that nothing was transferred.

 It seems I have more reading to do on this. But yes, I am also a bit
 mystified at why they don't make it easier to migrate to the cloud
 environment. Surely that would have to have been one of these first things
 they considered. Wouldn't it?




 On 12 February 2014 05:31, Paul Glavich subscripti...@theglavs.comwrote:

 We moved from a 3rd party hosted full TFS instance to TFS Online
 however we only use the work items, not source control(I prefer
 mercurial/git).



 It was a little painfull as we had used some customisation to
 fields/templates.



 However, it was **mostly** ok (if a little time consuming). I just got
 the entire backlog into Excel. Did the same the TFS online, copy common
 fields from one excel sheet to another, publish to TFS online. This got us
 an easy 80-85% there. Other stuff was customised or had some other
 weirdness we had to look into but not too bad. We kept the old instance
 going while we did some sanity checks and ensured all was ok.



 BTW, TFSOnline is great. Love the web interface and use it instead of
 the VS integration.



 -  Glav



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* 11 February 2014 6:57 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Grant,

 I did a migration from a one TFS server to another and it was a
 horrible experience. I don't recall the tool I used but I had the added
 complication of using a different Template

Re: Migrating TFS

[Stephen Price]

Anything older than five minutes?

I've been a Silverlight developer for 5ish years. Something I've noticed in
Perth (there never was a big demand for it, it was there but not like
Melb/Syd) now that Silverlight is abandoned (the perception of abandonment
in any case) is that the roles being advertised is all web/MVC stuff in the
.Net world. Heck today I even saw an ad where the project is to migrate
their GIS project from Silverlight to HTML5.

My comments were directed (and I'm so glad you are on the list, some of you
listen) at Microsoft company, not Microsoft people. Someone there makes
decisions and what we see out here is often weird when we don't see the
why.
Often too, the dissatisfaction comes not from what Microsoft are doing, but
what they aren't doing when compared with others. (The Googles and Apples
of the world). Perhaps its just grass is greener.

Now I'm sat here thinking, geeze man, don't make me justify/validate my
comments. lol
Maybe its a rant.

Getting back to the actual original issue, migrating from TFS server to TFS
server is not trivial. It's not like its someone elses product being dealt
with either. There, rant justified! ;)


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 1:11 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote:

  (We code a lot J)



 As a matter of interest, by old stuff what are we referring to?
 Stephen/Grant what technologies/versions are you working with?



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:50 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Unfortunately, I agree.



 I do see some work done on things like ASP.Net (in an MVC focused world).
 It would be nice if they did focus on the old stuff as much as the new but
 I guess they have to balance things. No point in supporting old things that
 no one uses any more.

 Software moves so fast, they invent things faster than anyone can learn
 it. The bleeding edge hurts, always having to solve problems no one has hit
 before. The old stuff is boring and has been done to death.

 That said its the boring stuff that makes up 80% of the code so you can't
 ignore it.



 Microsoft, if you are listening, you have some damaged reputation that
 needs repairing. Do you even code? (hehe. I was going to write do you even
 lift?)



 They need to speak with Greg K, I'm sure he has a few things to say about
 the matter. ;)





 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

  Update : the TFS Integration tool has proven to be completely useless.
 It just doesn't do what it says on the tin, not in this case anyway. Even
 when I could get it sort of working it kept throwing inexplicable
 exceptions.

 I'm migrating the current cut of the source code manually and recreating
 my branches. We'll lose our history, but better that than wasting days on
 end fighting with these 2nd rate tools.

 If Visual Studio itself wasn't the best IDE out there, we would migrate
 away to other platforms I think. Developer support in general just isn't
 good enough within Microsoft any longer, and unless you are working with
 the latest shiny new thing they don't seem to care.



 On 12 February 2014 09:18, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

   Thanks all for the responses. Ran a test yesterday and it failed due to
 a one file in our project which it kept getting stuck on, trying over and
 over again to process this file but it kept on failing.

 I removed this file from the project (it was non-essential and we can
 re-add it again later if we need to), and tried again. This time it ran
 through without errors and told me that it had finished, after about 10
 seconds! Needless to say that nothing was transferred.

 It seems I have more reading to do on this. But yes, I am also a bit
 mystified at why they don't make it easier to migrate to the cloud
 environment. Surely that would have to have been one of these first things
 they considered. Wouldn't it?





 On 12 February 2014 05:31, Paul Glavich subscripti...@theglavs.com
 wrote:

  We moved from a 3rd party hosted full TFS instance to TFS Online however
 we only use the work items, not source control(I prefer mercurial/git).



 It was a little painfull as we had used some customisation to
 fields/templates.



 However, it was **mostly** ok (if a little time consuming). I just got
 the entire backlog into Excel. Did the same the TFS online, copy common
 fields from one excel sheet to another, publish to TFS online. This got us
 an easy 80-85% there. Other stuff was customised or had some other
 weirdness we had to look into but not too bad. We kept the old instance
 going while we did some sanity checks and ensured all was ok.



 BTW, TFSOnline is great. Love the web interface and use it instead of the
 VS integration.



 -  Glav



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* 11 February

Re: Migrating TFS

[Stephen Price]

Greg? Where are you?

This is your cue.


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 1:11 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.comwrote:

  (We code a lot J)



 As a matter of interest, by old stuff what are we referring to?
 Stephen/Grant what technologies/versions are you working with?



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* Tuesday, February 11, 2014 8:50 PM

 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Unfortunately, I agree.



 I do see some work done on things like ASP.Net (in an MVC focused world).
 It would be nice if they did focus on the old stuff as much as the new but
 I guess they have to balance things. No point in supporting old things that
 no one uses any more.

 Software moves so fast, they invent things faster than anyone can learn
 it. The bleeding edge hurts, always having to solve problems no one has hit
 before. The old stuff is boring and has been done to death.

 That said its the boring stuff that makes up 80% of the code so you can't
 ignore it.



 Microsoft, if you are listening, you have some damaged reputation that
 needs repairing. Do you even code? (hehe. I was going to write do you even
 lift?)



 They need to speak with Greg K, I'm sure he has a few things to say about
 the matter. ;)





 On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

  Update : the TFS Integration tool has proven to be completely useless.
 It just doesn't do what it says on the tin, not in this case anyway. Even
 when I could get it sort of working it kept throwing inexplicable
 exceptions.

 I'm migrating the current cut of the source code manually and recreating
 my branches. We'll lose our history, but better that than wasting days on
 end fighting with these 2nd rate tools.

 If Visual Studio itself wasn't the best IDE out there, we would migrate
 away to other platforms I think. Developer support in general just isn't
 good enough within Microsoft any longer, and unless you are working with
 the latest shiny new thing they don't seem to care.



 On 12 February 2014 09:18, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

   Thanks all for the responses. Ran a test yesterday and it failed due to
 a one file in our project which it kept getting stuck on, trying over and
 over again to process this file but it kept on failing.

 I removed this file from the project (it was non-essential and we can
 re-add it again later if we need to), and tried again. This time it ran
 through without errors and told me that it had finished, after about 10
 seconds! Needless to say that nothing was transferred.

 It seems I have more reading to do on this. But yes, I am also a bit
 mystified at why they don't make it easier to migrate to the cloud
 environment. Surely that would have to have been one of these first things
 they considered. Wouldn't it?





 On 12 February 2014 05:31, Paul Glavich subscripti...@theglavs.com
 wrote:

  We moved from a 3rd party hosted full TFS instance to TFS Online however
 we only use the work items, not source control(I prefer mercurial/git).



 It was a little painfull as we had used some customisation to
 fields/templates.



 However, it was **mostly** ok (if a little time consuming). I just got
 the entire backlog into Excel. Did the same the TFS online, copy common
 fields from one excel sheet to another, publish to TFS online. This got us
 an easy 80-85% there. Other stuff was customised or had some other
 weirdness we had to look into but not too bad. We kept the old instance
 going while we did some sanity checks and ensured all was ok.



 BTW, TFSOnline is great. Love the web interface and use it instead of the
 VS integration.



 -  Glav



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Stephen Price
 *Sent:* 11 February 2014 6:57 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Migrating TFS



 Grant,

 I did a migration from a one TFS server to another and it was a horrible
 experience. I don't recall the tool I used but I had the added complication
 of using a different Template on the destination server and it was trying
 to migrate loads of mismatching fields. The source control was ok and
 history seemed to work. The work items were sketchy with lots not migrated.
 We ended up keeping the old TFS server about in read only for reference.



 Good job going to the cloud, I use Visual Studio online for my own stuff
 and its brilliant. Shame they don't make it easier to migrate into.



 cheers,

 Stephen

 p.s. if you need help with it let me know ;)



 On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 1:48 PM, Grant Maw grant@gmail.com wrote:

  Thanks Anthony. We're not worried about work items, just source code and
 history at this point, including branches. The TFS Integration Platform is
 beavering away as I write this (trying it out on a test copy of the
 project), telling me that 176 of 335 change groups have been migrated.

 I guess I'll just let it run

Re: Migrating TFS

[Greg Keogh]

 Greg? Where are you?
 This is your cue.


Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and
abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large
Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the
app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally.

What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed
out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the
browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just
can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the
ComponentOne SL libraries.

Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I
agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly
about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest
groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and
chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's
articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone.

My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and
unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code
500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work,
samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I
have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM
problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the
things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss
punch cards.

However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that
pervades this forum ;-)

Greg

Re: Migrating TFS

[Greg Harris]

I do not think this was directed at me but here goes...


Start rant


@#$%^ing Microsoft has #$%^ed me and the community on Silverlight, I spent
a few years 100% focused on Silverlight at a significant cost in time and
money, all now just wasted!


Today, I have a client that would 100% fit a Silverlight solution for their
line of business (LOB) application, but they are not willing to take on
Silverlight because of Microsoft's end of life perspective on the tool.


I would agree that it may not be the right cross platform tool for all
mobile devices, but I see no reason why MS cannot make a commitment to
future releases and ongoing support on Windows, Mac, Windows Phone and
Android.


I would not do the next version of Angry Birds with Silverlight, but I
would do most LOB apps with Silverlight.


Microsoft, you have made me angry, you have made my client's angry, you
have lost credibility, I do not trust you!  Probably more fool me for ever
trusting you!


Microsoft, you could start to gain some credibility back by restoring
Silverlight to its rightful place as the tool of choice for client side
development in LOB apps with a commitment to maintain and support it for 20
years into the future.


End rant


Regards

Greg Harris


On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 5:48 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

 Greg? Where are you?
 This is your cue.


 Ah! What! I'm awake ... I saw Silverlight mentioned as dead and
 abandoned. Guess what I've been doing all day today .. expanding a large
 Silverlight 5 app. We have no alternative, we've spent years developing the
 app and it's in use by some gigantic companies internationally.

 What the hell else can we do? Seriously! Discussion here last year pointed
 out that HTML5 is the only alternative to delivering rich apps on the
 browser desktop, but it groans under stress and I was warned that it just
 can't show attractive interactive charts of the type available with the
 ComponentOne SL libraries.

 Also, I have subscribed to MSDN Magazine (MSJ as it was) since 1993 and I
 agree that it is generally uninteresting these days because it's mostly
 about JavaScript, Stores, Azure, Windows RT and Windows 8 (the latest
 groovy stuff you're talking about). I find I flip through new issues and
 chuck them aside. I like academic articles, but Petzold's and McCaffrey's
 articles are so abstract they're in the twilight zone.

 My day to day development experience is consistently as infuriating and
 unpredictable as ever. Projects won't build, IIS goes haywire with code
 500s, versions clash, dependencies are all over the shop, kits don't work,
 samples are simplistic, designers crash, I'm coding XAML UIs by hand, I
 have to learn WiX, I have to run VS2013 and VS2012 side by side due to COM
 problems, my VS2013 is diseased, and so on. I get up in the morning and the
 things that worked the night before are all on the fritz. Sometimes I miss
 punch cards.

 However, I don't want to fuel the jovial atmosphere of impending doom that
 pervades this forum ;-)

 Greg

RE: Migrating TFS

[anthonyatsmallbiz]

What sort of costing is involved?

 

 

Anthony Salerno | Consultant | SmallBiz Australia
Software Developers | Mobile | Tablet | Software | Web | eCommerce | IT
Support
Phone  : +613 8400 4191 Email  : 2Anthony (at) smallbiz.com.au   Postal : Po
Box 135, Lower Plenty 3093 ABN : 16 079 706 737

 

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Tuesday, 11 February 2014 4:07 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Migrating TFS

 

Hi All

Has anyone moved from on-premises TFS to visual studio online? We have a
large solution, including branches, that needs to be pushed into the cloud
as soon as possible and I'd love to hear any war stories before I start.

I'm thinking about using the tool at http://tfsintegration.codeplex.com/.

Cheers

Grant

RE: Migrating TFS

[Anthony Borton]

Hi Grant,

I moved a client with around 35 team projects from an on-premises TFS up to 
Visual Studio Online using the TFS Integration Platform. I was pretty lucky in 
that they only needed the source to go up and didn't have work items to work 
about. The process was quite a bit more time consuming than I had planned and 
it was a seemingly never-ending exercise in massaging settings to get the 
source (with history) from each TP up to the cloud. A future TFS 2013 update 
should include a feature to help move data from VSO down to TFS but I haven't 
heard if there is anything there to help go the other way.

Cheers

Anthony Borton
Senior ALM Trainer/Consultant
Visual Studio ALM MVP
Enhance ALM Pty Ltd

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Tuesday, 11 February 2014 3:07 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Migrating TFS

Hi All
Has anyone moved from on-premises TFS to visual studio online? We have a large 
solution, including branches, that needs to be pushed into the cloud as soon as 
possible and I'd love to hear any war stories before I start.

I'm thinking about using the tool at http://tfsintegration.codeplex.com/.
Cheers

Grant

Re: Migrating TFS

[Grant Maw]

Thanks Anthony. We're not worried about work items, just source code and
history at this point, including branches. The TFS Integration Platform is
beavering away as I write this (trying it out on a test copy of the
project), telling me that 176 of 335 change groups have been migrated.

I guess I'll just let it run and see where it lands me.


On 11 February 2014 15:40, Anthony Borton antho...@enhancealm.com.auwrote:

  Hi Grant,



 I moved a client with around 35 team projects from an on-premises TFS up
 to Visual Studio Online using the TFS Integration Platform. I was pretty
 lucky in that they only needed the source to go up and didn't have work
 items to work about. The process was quite a bit more time consuming than I
 had planned and it was a seemingly never-ending exercise in massaging
 settings to get the source (with history) from each TP up to the cloud. A
 future TFS 2013 update should include a feature to help move data from VSO
 down to TFS but I haven't heard if there is anything there to help go the
 other way.



 Cheers



 Anthony Borton

 Senior ALM Trainer/Consultant

 Visual Studio ALM MVP

 Enhance ALM Pty Ltd



 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw
 *Sent:* Tuesday, 11 February 2014 3:07 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Migrating TFS



 Hi All

 Has anyone moved from on-premises TFS to visual studio online? We have a
 large solution, including branches, that needs to be pushed into the cloud
 as soon as possible and I'd love to hear any war stories before I start.

 I'm thinking about using the tool at http://tfsintegration.codeplex.com/.

 Cheers

 Grant

Re: Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing system

[Grant Maw]

We have looked at this from the perspective of rolling our own. The idea
was to write an ASP.NET app that provided a way for our customers to come
in and log feature requests, report bugs and so forth via some interface
that we would create, and have the work items logged directly into TFS. We
also needed the ability for customers to see the status of any work items
that they have logged previously.

What stopped us was the licensing - MS licensing told me that we would need
a TFS license for every customer. That policy effectively pulled the
shutters on the project so now we do it manually.


On 7 August 2013 13:05, Preet Sangha preetsan...@gmail.com wrote:

 We are now big enough to require a ticketing system to manage customer
 requests/tasks.

 Internally (8 of us) we use cloud TFS (visualstudio.com) and Office 365
 so a cloud based solution suits us better then us having to manage it. In
 fact our whole infrastructure is slowly migrating to azure anyway.

 One of our customers has mentioned that another vendor as opened their
 internal TFS to them so the solution might be as simple as that.

 However I thought I'd get some outside wise heads to comment on what they
 might be doing or would recommend or perhaps not recommend. Before I head
 down the road of evaluating systems.

 The main requirements are:

 1. Avoiding duplication of data entry
 2. Integration with VS2012 is a big 'would like' but not a show stopper as
 we're to hapy to continue using TFS as our main entry point.
 3. Prefer to pay someone else to manage it within reason

 We (people and clients) are world wide so local Asia/Pacific hosting etc.
 is not a necessity in the slightest.


 What do you guys do?
 --
 regards,
 Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

RE: Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing system

[David Kean]

Grant, do you know if this is still true?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 4:00 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing system

We have looked at this from the perspective of rolling our own. The idea was to 
write an ASP.NEThttp://ASP.NET app that provided a way for our customers to 
come in and log feature requests, report bugs and so forth via some interface 
that we would create, and have the work items logged directly into TFS. We also 
needed the ability for customers to see the status of any work items that they 
have logged previously.

What stopped us was the licensing - MS licensing told me that we would need a 
TFS license for every customer. That policy effectively pulled the shutters on 
the project so now we do it manually.

On 7 August 2013 13:05, Preet Sangha 
preetsan...@gmail.commailto:preetsan...@gmail.com wrote:
We are now big enough to require a ticketing system to manage customer 
requests/tasks.

Internally (8 of us) we use cloud TFS 
(visualstudio.comhttp://visualstudio.com) and Office 365 so a cloud based 
solution suits us better then us having to manage it. In fact our whole 
infrastructure is slowly migrating to azure anyway.

One of our customers has mentioned that another vendor as opened their internal 
TFS to them so the solution might be as simple as that.

However I thought I'd get some outside wise heads to comment on what they might 
be doing or would recommend or perhaps not recommend. Before I head down the 
road of evaluating systems.

The main requirements are:

1. Avoiding duplication of data entry
2. Integration with VS2012 is a big 'would like' but not a show stopper as 
we're to hapy to continue using TFS as our main entry point.
3. Prefer to pay someone else to manage it within reason

We (people and clients) are world wide so local Asia/Pacific hosting etc. is 
not a necessity in the slightest.


What do you guys do?
--
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

Re: Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing system

[Grant Maw]

The response I had from MS licensing was dated 30 May this year. I am not
aware that anything has changed. If it has changed then I would love to
know as we would resurrect this project.


On 20 August 2013 09:16, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote:

  Grant, do you know if this is still true?

 ** **

 *From:* ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:
 ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] *On Behalf Of *Grant Maw
 *Sent:* Monday, August 19, 2013 4:00 PM
 *To:* ozDotNet
 *Subject:* Re: Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing
 system

 ** **

 We have looked at this from the perspective of rolling our own. The idea
 was to write an ASP.NET app that provided a way for our customers to come
 in and log feature requests, report bugs and so forth via some interface
 that we would create, and have the work items logged directly into TFS. We
 also needed the ability for customers to see the status of any work items
 that they have logged previously. 

  

 What stopped us was the licensing - MS licensing told me that we would
 need a TFS license for every customer. That policy effectively pulled the
 shutters on the project so now we do it manually.

 ** **

 On 7 August 2013 13:05, Preet Sangha preetsan...@gmail.com wrote:

 We are now big enough to require a ticketing system to manage customer
 requests/tasks.

 ** **

 Internally (8 of us) we use cloud TFS (visualstudio.com) and Office 365
 so a cloud based solution suits us better then us having to manage it. In
 fact our whole infrastructure is slowly migrating to azure anyway.

 ** **

 One of our customers has mentioned that another vendor as opened their
 internal TFS to them so the solution might be as simple as that. 

 ** **

 However I thought I'd get some outside wise heads to comment on what they
 might be doing or would recommend or perhaps not recommend. Before I head
 down the road of evaluating systems.

 ** **

 The main requirements are:

 ** **

 1. Avoiding duplication of data entry

 2. Integration with VS2012 is a big 'would like' but not a show stopper as
 we're to hapy to continue using TFS as our main entry point.

 3. Prefer to pay someone else to manage it within reason

 ** **

 We (people and clients) are world wide so local Asia/Pacific hosting etc.
 is not a necessity in the slightest. 

 ** **

 ** **

 What do you guys do?

 --
 regards,
 Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland 

  ** **

RE: Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing system

[David Kean]

Re-adding Grant Holliday to the thread.

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 4:19 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing system

The response I had from MS licensing was dated 30 May this year. I am not aware 
that anything has changed. If it has changed then I would love to know as we 
would resurrect this project.

On 20 August 2013 09:16, David Kean 
david.k...@microsoft.commailto:david.k...@microsoft.com wrote:
Grant, do you know if this is still true?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Maw
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 4:00 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing system

We have looked at this from the perspective of rolling our own. The idea was to 
write an ASP.NEThttp://ASP.NET app that provided a way for our customers to 
come in and log feature requests, report bugs and so forth via some interface 
that we would create, and have the work items logged directly into TFS. We also 
needed the ability for customers to see the status of any work items that they 
have logged previously.

What stopped us was the licensing - MS licensing told me that we would need a 
TFS license for every customer. That policy effectively pulled the shutters on 
the project so now we do it manually.

On 7 August 2013 13:05, Preet Sangha 
preetsan...@gmail.commailto:preetsan...@gmail.com wrote:
We are now big enough to require a ticketing system to manage customer 
requests/tasks.

Internally (8 of us) we use cloud TFS 
(visualstudio.comhttp://visualstudio.com) and Office 365 so a cloud based 
solution suits us better then us having to manage it. In fact our whole 
infrastructure is slowly migrating to azure anyway.

One of our customers has mentioned that another vendor as opened their internal 
TFS to them so the solution might be as simple as that.

However I thought I'd get some outside wise heads to comment on what they might 
be doing or would recommend or perhaps not recommend. Before I head down the 
road of evaluating systems.

The main requirements are:

1. Avoiding duplication of data entry
2. Integration with VS2012 is a big 'would like' but not a show stopper as 
we're to hapy to continue using TFS as our main entry point.
3. Prefer to pay someone else to manage it within reason

We (people and clients) are world wide so local Asia/Pacific hosting etc. is 
not a necessity in the slightest.


What do you guys do?
--
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

Options for exposing TFS to customers and/or ticketing system

[Preet Sangha]

We are now big enough to require a ticketing system to manage customer
requests/tasks.

Internally (8 of us) we use cloud TFS (visualstudio.com) and Office 365 so
a cloud based solution suits us better then us having to manage it. In fact
our whole infrastructure is slowly migrating to azure anyway.

One of our customers has mentioned that another vendor as opened their
internal TFS to them so the solution might be as simple as that.

However I thought I'd get some outside wise heads to comment on what they
might be doing or would recommend or perhaps not recommend. Before I head
down the road of evaluating systems.

The main requirements are:

1. Avoiding duplication of data entry
2. Integration with VS2012 is a big 'would like' but not a show stopper as
we're to hapy to continue using TFS as our main entry point.
3. Prefer to pay someone else to manage it within reason

We (people and clients) are world wide so local Asia/Pacific hosting etc.
is not a necessity in the slightest.


What do you guys do?
-- 
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

Recommendations for TFS 2012 Training in Canberra

[noonie]

Greetings,

Can anyone recommend TFS 2012 training in Canberra?

I'm particularly Interested in Upgrade/Migration from 2008 and setup 
administration.

-- 
Regards,
noonie

RE: Recommendations for TFS 2012 Training in Canberra

[Anthony Borton]

Hi Neale,

I’m running the following TFS courses in Canberra next month.
17-Jul-2013 Test Automation, Web Performance and Load Testing with Visual 
Studio 2012  (2 days)
22-Jul-2013 Software Testing with Visual Studio 2012  (2 days)

My TFS admin course is running in Brisbane and you can attend this remotely 
from anywhere in AU/NZ if that helps.
24-Jul-2013 TFS 2012 Configuration and Administration  (3 days)

Let me know if you’d like to see the course outline or if you have any 
questions.

Cheers

Anthony Borton
ALM MVP


From: nooniemailto:neale.n...@gmail.com
Sent: ‎25/‎06/‎2013 20:17
To: ozDotNetmailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com; ozTFSmailto:oz...@oztfs.com
Subject: Recommendations for TFS 2012 Training in Canberra
Greetings,

Can anyone recommend TFS 2012 training in Canberra?

I'm particularly Interested in Upgrade/Migration from 2008 and setup  
administration.

--
Regards,
noonie

RE: Upgrading TFS 2008 to TFS 2012

[Clint Colefax]

The initial upgrade process (migration) was pretty smooth for me when I did it 
recently, but I had a lot of issues down the track.

Some of the point of hand we had included


-   Issue in the process template were nothing would list in the 
assigned to field, had to manually edit the work item templates, this may have 
been due to the template coming initially from tfs 2005 (we had upgraded once 
before)

-  The build agent couldn't be installed on XP, and I had existing 
build servers for building vb6 assets. Had to move to win7, and get vb6 working 
there, which is not trivial

-  I upgraded away from the xml based build process, to the new 
workflow build process, has issues replicating some custom build activities 
needed for my vb6 assets. Had to compromise on a couple points there.


Can't think of anything else right now, it's been a slow gradual process for 
me, done in-between other tasks.

Thanks
Clint Colefax

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Brendan Tierney
Sent: Friday, 14 June 2013 9:49 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Upgrading TFS 2008 to TFS 2012

G'day Folks,

I am researching what is required to upgrade / migrate TFS 2008 to TFS 2012. I 
note that TFS 2012 can only be installed on a 64 bit OS , so if you are on a 32 
bit OS  you cannot do an in-place upgrade, you need to migrate.

This is for a local government authority, and there is a mix of project types 
in the current TFS 2008 repository from WPF, ASP.Net, Wiforms, VB.NET C#, 
VS2005, VS2008, and VS2010 format.

I am wanting to find out if anyone else has gone down this path and what the 
experience has been like.

Regards,
Brendan Tierney
M: 0423 782 930 T: 07 5514 6231
PO Box 6243 Gold Coast Mail Centre QLD 9729


From: g...@greglow.commailto:g...@greglow.com
To: y...@yannduran.commailto:y...@yannduran.com; 
ozdotnet@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: RE: Website title bar image
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:49:02 +1000
Thanks Michael  Yann,

I've added one. It's a real challenge to try to have something that looks good 
in that resolution though.

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low

1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.comhttp://www.sqldownunder.com/

From: Yann Duran [mailto:y...@yannduran.com]
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013 7:01 PM
To: Greg Low; ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Website title bar image

Hi Greg,

It's called a favicon.

Yann

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.commailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com 
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Greg Low (GregLow.com)
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013 6:30 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: Website title bar image

Hi Folks,

What property on a website is used to configure this icon:

[cid:image001.png@01CE6B6C.D696F360]

[cid:image002.png@01CE6B6C.D696F360]

Regards,

Greg

Dr Greg Low
CEO and Principal Mentor
SQL Down Under
SQL Server MVP and Microsoft Regional Director
1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax
Web: www.sqldownunder.comhttp://www.sqldownunder.com/


inline: image001.pnginline: image002.png

RE: Upgrading TFS 2008 to TFS 2012

[Brendan Tierney]

Thanks Clint. Did you install TFS on server 2008 or server 2012?

Regards,
Brendan Tierney
Director - Tier One Logic Pty Ltd
M: 0423 782 930 T: 07 5514 6231
PO Box 6243 Gold Coast Mail Centre QLD 9729

From: cl...@virid.com.au
To: ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: RE: Upgrading TFS 2008 to TFS 2012
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 05:10:46 +









The initial upgrade process (migration) was pretty smooth for me when I did it 
recently, but I had a lot of issues down the track.

 
Some of the point of hand we had included
 
- 
 Issue in the process template were nothing would list in the assigned to 
field, had to manually edit the work item templates, this may have been
 due to the template coming initially from tfs 2005 (we had upgraded once 
before)
- 
The build agent couldn’t be installed on XP, and I had existing build servers 
for building vb6 assets. Had to move to win7, and get vb6 working there,
 which is not trivial
- 
I upgraded away from the xml based build process, to the new workflow build 
process, has issues replicating some custom build activities needed for
 my vb6 assets. Had to compromise on a couple points there.
 
 
Can’t think of anything else right now, it’s been a slow gradual process for 
me, done in-between other tasks.
 

Thanks
Clint Colefax

 


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Brendan Tierney

Sent: Friday, 14 June 2013 9:49 AM

To: ozDotNet

Subject: Upgrading TFS 2008 to TFS 2012


 

G'day Folks,

 


I am researching what is required to upgrade / migrate TFS 2008 to TFS 2012. I 
note that TFS 2012 can only be installed on a 64 bit OS , so if you are on a 32 
bit OS  you cannot do an in-place
 upgrade, you need to migrate.


 


This is for a local government authority, and there is a mix of project types 
in the current TFS 2008 repository from WPF, ASP.Net, Wiforms, VB.NET C#, 
VS2005, VS2008, and VS2010 format.


 


I am wanting to find out if anyone else has gone down this path and what the 
experience has been like.


 


Regards,

Brendan Tierney

M: 0423 782 930 T: 07 5514 6231

PO Box 6243 Gold Coast Mail Centre QLD 9729





  

Upgrading TFS 2008 to TFS 2012

[Brendan Tierney]

G'day Folks,
I am researching what is required to upgrade / migrate TFS 2008 to TFS 2012. I 
note that TFS 2012 can only be installed on a 64 bit OS , so if you are on a 32 
bit OS  you cannot do an in-place upgrade, you need to migrate.
This is for a local government authority, and there is a mix of project types 
in the current TFS 2008 repository from WPF, ASP.Net, Wiforms, VB.NET C#, 
VS2005, VS2008, and VS2010 format.
I am wanting to find out if anyone else has gone down this path and what the 
experience has been like.
Regards,
Brendan Tierney
M: 0423 782 930 T: 07 5514 6231
PO Box 6243 Gold Coast Mail Centre QLD 9729


From: g...@greglow.com
To: y...@yannduran.com; ozdotnet@ozdotnet.com
Subject: RE: Website title bar image
Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2013 13:49:02 +1000


Thanks Michael  Yann, I’ve added one. It’s a real challenge to try to have 
something that looks good in that resolution though. Regards, Greg Dr Greg Low 
1300SQLSQL (1300 775 775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax 
SQL Down Under | Web: www.sqldownunder.com From: Yann Duran 
[mailto:y...@yannduran.com] 
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013 7:01 PM
To: Greg Low; ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Website title bar image Hi Greg, It’s called a favicon. Yann From: 
ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf 
Of Greg Low (GregLow.com)
Sent: Friday, 12 April 2013 6:30 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: Website title bar image Hi Folks, What property on a website is used 
to configure this icon:   Regards, Greg Dr Greg LowCEO and Principal MentorSQL 
Down UnderSQL Server MVP and Microsoft Regional Director1300SQLSQL (1300 775 
775) office | +61 419201410 mobile│ +61 3 8676 4913 fax Web: 
www.sqldownunder.com   inline: image001.pnginline: image002.png

Move documentation from one TFS Project Portal to another

[noonie]

Greetings,

I posted in OzTFS yesterday but it's awfully quiet in there...

I have a request from the business to move* some version controlled
documents (not source code) from one project to another.

We are using Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Team System and Web Access SP1
and I can't seem to find any references to doing this online.

* Move means shift them from one project (portal) to another and KEEP the
history!

Is this possible? Where do I look?

-- 
Regards,
noonie

RE: Move documentation from one TFS Project Portal to another

[David Kean]

Grant?

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of noonie
Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 8:36 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Move documentation from one TFS Project Portal to another

Greetings,

I posted in OzTFS yesterday but it's awfully quiet in there...

I have a request from the business to move* some version controlled documents 
(not source code) from one project to another.

We are using Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Team System and Web Access SP1 and I 
can't seem to find any references to doing this online.

* Move means shift them from one project (portal) to another and KEEP the 
history!

Is this possible? Where do I look?

--
Regards,
noonie

Re: Cloud TFS

[Preet Sangha]

We use TFS in the cloud. Have been since it was called TFSPreview (about
1.5 years) . We are only a half dozen people and we use this as out primary
source control repository.

It's a very full version of TFS.

What do we use?
 - source control
 - tasks
 - shelvesets
 - I've dabbled a bit with the local agents and automated builds, but it's
not a priority in our work so I'm just playing still
(all integrated into VS)

I also use the TFS Power Tools (from MS) to allow me to finesse the command
line !

What did we install?
Most of the people use VS2010+SP1 + HF (for Cloud Auth). I just use VS2012

the only issues? It and the wet string we have here called internet can go
down occasionally.

What else?

I believe it now supports the Git interface, so you can do use variant of
the git tools if you like that world.


On 5 April 2013 21:36, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

 Folks, while stuffing around today I noticed that VS2012 has an option to
 create a TFS account, so I made https://*mybusiness*.visualstudio.comaccount, 
 then I created a new Team Project for my current hobby project.

 My only questions are now ... what have I done and what can I do with it?

 For comparison, a few months ago I created a Bitbucket account and I've
 been using the TortoiseHG Workbench client app to move stuff in and out.
 It's working quite well and I like having my projects in the cloud,
 just like my backups and email (ignoring security issues for now!). So I
 suppose I've created an account that is in direct competition with
 Bitbucket, is that right? If I have, what's the advantage? I get the
 impression that Visual Studio's version control can work directly with my
 new account, is that right? It would be nice to have the version control
 integrated into the VS IDE if that's what I can get. Then I worry that I
 have the wrong version of Visual Studio or there are dependencies on other
 TFS stuff I have to install.

 Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if someone is using projects in the
 cloud and can give me a potted summary of what advantage I can gain
 quickly and what I might need to install.

 Cheers,
 Greg K




-- 
regards,
Preet, Overlooking the Ocean, Auckland

Re: Cloud TFS

[Grant Molloy]

Greg,
In VS goto tools - options - source control. Set this to tfs.
Close dialog.

In menu - View - Team Explorer..  this is what you will need to connect to
your TFS instance in cloud.

In menu - View - other windows (I think) - Source Code Explorer.. this
will give you a view of your repository of the connected tfs.

HTH..

Grant
On Apr 5, 2013 6:36 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.net wrote:

 Folks, while stuffing around today I noticed that VS2012 has an option to
 create a TFS account, so I made https://*mybusiness*.visualstudio.comaccount, 
 then I created a new Team Project for my current hobby project.

 My only questions are now ... what have I done and what can I do with it?

 For comparison, a few months ago I created a Bitbucket account and I've
 been using the TortoiseHG Workbench client app to move stuff in and out.
 It's working quite well and I like having my projects in the cloud,
 just like my backups and email (ignoring security issues for now!). So I
 suppose I've created an account that is in direct competition with
 Bitbucket, is that right? If I have, what's the advantage? I get the
 impression that Visual Studio's version control can work directly with my
 new account, is that right? It would be nice to have the version control
 integrated into the VS IDE if that's what I can get. Then I worry that I
 have the wrong version of Visual Studio or there are dependencies on other
 TFS stuff I have to install.

 Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if someone is using projects in the
 cloud and can give me a potted summary of what advantage I can gain
 quickly and what I might need to install.

 Cheers,
 Greg K

RE: Cloud TFS

[Katherine Moss]

The cloud is great, but remember to use it where it is merited, don't use it 
where it's not.  Hosting your own server might be good for the experience of 
it, you know.  Just a thought; I'll be doing some stuff on CodePlex hopefully 
soon, and I'll use CodePlex for the repository and then TFS Express as the 
build server from my place.
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Grant Molloy
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2013 7:33 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Cloud TFS


Greg,
In VS goto tools - options - source control. Set this to tfs.
Close dialog.

In menu - View - Team Explorer..  this is what you will need to connect to 
your TFS instance in cloud.

In menu - View - other windows (I think) - Source Code Explorer.. this will 
give you a view of your repository of the connected tfs.

HTH..

Grant
On Apr 5, 2013 6:36 PM, Greg Keogh g...@mira.netmailto:g...@mira.net 
wrote:
Folks, while stuffing around today I noticed that VS2012 has an option to 
create a TFS account, so I made 
https://mybusiness.visualstudio.comhttp://visualstudio.com account, then I 
created a new Team Project for my current hobby project.

My only questions are now ... what have I done and what can I do with it?

For comparison, a few months ago I created a Bitbucket account and I've been 
using the TortoiseHG Workbench client app to move stuff in and out. It's 
working quite well and I like having my projects in the cloud, just like my 
backups and email (ignoring security issues for now!). So I suppose I've 
created an account that is in direct competition with Bitbucket, is that right? 
If I have, what's the advantage? I get the impression that Visual Studio's 
version control can work directly with my new account, is that right? It would 
be nice to have the version control integrated into the VS IDE if that's what I 
can get. Then I worry that I have the wrong version of Visual Studio or there 
are dependencies on other TFS stuff I have to install.

Anyway, I'd really appreciate it if someone is using projects in the cloud 
and can give me a potted summary of what advantage I can gain quickly and what 
I might need to install.

Cheers,
Greg K

Deploying from TFS

[David Burela]

The last time I configured automated deployments from scratch was on TFS
2008.

Visual Studio 2010  TFS 2010 seem to have 'more things' built into it. What
is the story nowadays for deploying websites, windows services, SSIS
packages.
Is TFS Deployer http://tfsdeployer.codeplex.com/ + powershell scripts to
xCopy still the best bet.

How about the new web packaging option in VS2010. How well does that play
with TFS2010 / TFS Deployer?
-David Burela

Requirements Development and TFS

[Dylan Tusler]

Does anyone know any tools for developing requirements documentation (for 
Business Analysts/Process Analysts to use) that integrate with Team Foundation 
Server in any meaningful way?

I've seen http://vstfs2010rm.codeplex.com/ but looking for more...

Cheers,

Dylan Tusler
Acting Data, Development  Integration Manager
ICTS Branch
Sunshine Coast Council
ph: +61 (0)7 5420 8002



-
To find out more about the Sunshine Coast Regional Council, visit your local 
office at Caloundra, Maroochydore, Nambour or Tewantin or visit us online at 
www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au.  If correspondence includes personal information, 
please refer to Council's Privacy Policy at http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au 
.

This email and any attachments are confidential and only for the use of the 
addressee.  If you have received this email in error you are requested to 
notify the sender by return email or contact council on 1300 00 7272 and are 
prohibited from forwarding, printing, copying or using it in anyway, in whole 
or part. Please note that some council staff utilise Blackberry devices, which 
results in information being transmitted overseas prior to delivery of any 
communication to the device.  In sending an email to Council you are agreeing 
that the content of your email may be transmitted overseas. Any views expressed 
in this email are the author's, except where the email makes it clear 
otherwise. The unauthorised publication of an email and any attachments 
generated for the official functions of council is strictly prohibited. Please 
note that council is subject to the Right to Information Act 2009 (Qld) and 
Information Privacy Act 2009 (Qld).

RE: Requirements Development and TFS

[Rob von Nesselrode]

Dylan,
 
A few Dept's in Qld that use Doors from IBM. Probably costs heaps but you
can drive TFS with it (not sure of the detail as I tried to keep away from
it)
 
Regards
 
Rob

  _  

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
On Behalf Of Dylan Tusler
Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2011 4:51 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: Requirements Development and TFS


Does anyone know any tools for developing requirements documentation (for
Business Analysts/Process Analysts to use) that integrate with Team
Foundation Server in any meaningful way?
 
I've seen  http://vstfs2010rm.codeplex.com/
http://vstfs2010rm.codeplex.com/ but looking for more...
 
Cheers,

Dylan Tusler
Acting Data, Development  Integration Manager
ICTS Branch
Sunshine Coast Council
ph: +61 (0)7 5420 8002

 
 http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/ Sunshine Coast Council

 https://www.facebook.com/SunshineCoastCouncil Sunshine Coast Council is
on Facebook __ __
To find out more about the Sunshine Coast Council, visit your local office
at Caloundra, Maroochydore, Nambour or Tewantin or visit us online at
www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au. http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/  If
correspondence includes personal information, please refer to Council's
http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/sitePage.cfm?code=disclaimer Privacy
Policy 

This email and any attachments are confidential and only for the use of the
addressee. If you have received this email in error you are requested to
notify the sender by return email or contact council on 1300 00 7272 and are
prohibited from forwarding, printing, copying or using it in anyway, in
whole or part. Please note that some council staff utilise Blackberry
devices, which results in information being transmitted overseas prior to
delivery of any communication to the device. In sending an email to Council
you are agreeing that the content of your email may be transmitted overseas.
Any views expressed in this email are the author's, except where the email
makes it clear otherwise. The unauthorised publication of an email and any
attachments generated for the official functions of council is strictly
prohibited. Please note that council is subject to the Right to Information
Act 2009 (Qld) and Information Privacy Act 2009 (Qld).

RE: Requirements Development and TFS

[Dylan Tusler]

Thanks.

I also found this link:

http://blogs.msdn.com/slange/archive/2007/11/06/requirements-management-in-tfs-part-3-of-4-integrations.aspx

just after I posted, which is from 2007, but has a few leads to try out.

Wondering if anyone has tried out TeamSpec?

Dylan.



From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Rob von Nesselrode
Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2011 4:54 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: RE: Requirements Development and TFS

Dylan,

A few Dept's in Qld that use Doors from IBM. Probably costs heaps but you can 
drive TFS with it (not sure of the detail as I tried to keep away from it)

Regards

Rob


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Dylan Tusler
Sent: Wednesday, 30 March 2011 4:51 PM
To: 'ozDotNet'
Subject: Requirements Development and TFS

Does anyone know any tools for developing requirements documentation (for 
Business Analysts/Process Analysts to use) that integrate with Team Foundation 
Server in any meaningful way?

I've seen http://vstfs2010rm.codeplex.com/ but looking for more...

Cheers,

Dylan Tusler
Acting Data, Development  Integration Manager
ICTS Branch
Sunshine Coast Council
ph: +61 (0)7 5420 8002


[https://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/email_logos/logo4mailfooter.jpg]http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/

[https://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/email_logos/facebook_SCC2.png]https://www.facebook.com/SunshineCoastCouncil
 __ __
To find out more about the Sunshine Coast Council, visit your local office at 
Caloundra, Maroochydore, Nambour or Tewantin or visit us online at 
www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au.http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/ If 
correspondence includes personal information, please refer to Council's Privacy 
Policyhttp://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au/sitePage.cfm?code=disclaimer

This email and any attachments are confidential and only for the use of the 
addressee. If you have received this email in error you are requested to notify 
the sender by return email or contact council on 1300 00 7272 and are 
prohibited from forwarding, printing, copying or using it in anyway, in whole 
or part. Please note that some council staff utilise Blackberry devices, which 
results in information being transmitted overseas prior to delivery of any 
communication to the device. In sending an email to Council you are agreeing 
that the content of your email may be transmitted overseas.
Any views expressed in this email are the author's, except where the email 
makes it clear otherwise. The unauthorised publication of an email and any 
attachments generated for the official functions of council is strictly 
prohibited. Please note that council is subject to the Right to Information Act 
2009 (Qld) and Information Privacy Act 2009 (Qld).

-
To find out more about the Sunshine Coast Regional Council, visit your local 
office at Caloundra, Maroochydore, Nambour or Tewantin or visit us online at 
www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au.  If correspondence includes personal information, 
please refer to Council's Privacy Policy at http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au 
.

This email and any attachments are confidential and only for the use of the 
addressee.  If you have received this email in error you are requested to 
notify the sender by return email or contact council on 1300 00 7272 and are 
prohibited from forwarding, printing, copying or using it in anyway, in whole 
or part. Please note that some council staff utilise Blackberry devices, which 
results in information being transmitted overseas prior to delivery of any 
communication to the device.  In sending an email to Council you are agreeing 
that the content of your email may be transmitted overseas. Any views expressed 
in this email are the author's, except where the email makes it clear 
otherwise. The unauthorised publication of an email and any attachments 
generated for the official functions of council is strictly prohibited. Please 
note that council is subject to the Right to Information Act 2009 (Qld) and 
Information Privacy Act 2009 (Qld).

Tfs

[djones147]

Hi guys,

Recently work has switched from clearcase to tfs.  The only problem is when I 
go to check in, it tries to check in all the .vsspscc files as well. Is this 
normal for tfs? Or is it a configuration problem, and if so server or client?

 This is the first time I've used it as before it was always subversion / git 
etc.  

Thanks

Davy
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. I feel much 
the same way about xml

RE: Tfs

[David Kean]

Yes it is normal (and annoying). You just have to ignore the file. If it 
doesn't change, TFS won't actually check it in (it skips it under the covers if 
using the UI, if using the command-line it will tell you that it didn't check 
it in). 

They are looking at making this experience better in a future version.


From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] on behalf 
of djones...@gmail.com [djones...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 1:10 AM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Tfs

Hi guys,

Recently work has switched from clearcase to tfs.  The only problem is when I 
go to check in, it tries to check in all the .vsspscc files as well. Is this 
normal for tfs? Or is it a configuration problem, and if so server or client?

 This is the first time I've used it as before it was always subversion / git 
etc.

Thanks

Davy
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. I feel much 
the same way about xml

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Joseph Cooney]

Yeah, tfs integration is very good. There is a dvcs that has integrated bug, 
work item tracking and wiki (called fossil) from the makers of sqlite. I 
haven't used it, but it will be interesting to see how long tfs retains this 
advantage.

On 06/11/2010, at 6:01 PM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote:

 I’d be surprised if it’s as large as DevDiv – it’s not the Framework that is 
 huge, it’s the largest product (in code size) that we make; VS. ;)
 
  
 
 I suspect a GB wouldn’t be bad, I easily pull down over 10 GB in my 
 enlistments from TFS, so assumingly a DVCS could easily handle that, only 
 with faster commits  and history.
 
  
 
 However, if you want the integration – TFS is definitely the way to go 
 (however, I am biased J).
 
  
 
 From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
 Behalf Of Joseph Cooney
 Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 8:30 PM
 To: ozDotNet
 Cc: ozDotNet
 Subject: Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?
 
  
 
 There is a mercurial vide from 2006 where they say some folks have gb-sized 
 source trees. Mono use Git - which would be roughly the same size as a devdiv 
 branch (an assumption based on the fact that they deliver equivalent 
 functionality using the same language, unless you folk store VMs or something 
 else big in your source tree that they don't). Linux kernel uses git, but 
 they are well under a gb, as is Mozilla with hg.
 
 
 On 06/11/2010, at 4:32 AM, David Kean david.k...@microsoft.com wrote:
 
 How big are the databases that you are using? I’d imagine that there would be 
 huge savings in using a DVCS for small self-contained repositories, however, 
 there would be a given size where using one would no longer be an advantage. 
 For example, I can’t imagine a DVCS working at Microsoft; a full enlistment 
 in one branch in DevDiv is around 300 GB (times that by 100s of branches) – 
 having everyone pull that down and all the history along with it, would not 
 be fun.
 
  
 
 From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
 Behalf Of Mark Ryall
 Sent: Friday, November 05, 2010 11:19 AM
 To: ozDotNet
 Subject: Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?
 
  
 
 I'm using svn again now after using git and hg for a few years (tfs was in 
 there too - i don't want to talk about that).  I always liked svn and found 
 it adequate but don't anymore.
 
  
 
 There's nothing a DVCS provides that you can't live without - just as 64Kb of 
 RAM was once perfectly adequate.
 
  
 
 There are just a whole lot of things with DVCS that suddenly become easier or 
 possible.  While you might not have considered these things earlier (because 
 you couldn't), you really miss them when you can't.
 
 They are insanely fast - especially git.  You will notice how fast they are 
 every time you need to do a commit.  Insanely fast encourages more frequent 
 commits.  The fact that after a clone, you end up with the entire history of 
 a project locally (including every branch) in far less time than svn would 
 take to check out a single code line (due to all the thousands of tiny 
 control files it needs to create in every directory) is the winner for me.
 
  
 
 Hosting is free or really cheap (bitbucket/github/launchpad).
 
  
 
 For an open source project, fork/send pull request is a much lower barrier to 
 entry for collaboration than checkout/email patch file.  If you accept a pull 
 request, that person's commit becomes part of your codebase as them without 
 you needing to provide direct commit access (as opposed to their changes 
 being committed from a patch by you).
 
 I prefer to avoid branching where possible but they make branching 
 effortlessly easy.  Merging with git/hg is trivial and is properly tracked 
 unlike with svn.  Merging is always awful but git in particular seems to have 
 some preternatural ability to help you get it right.
 
 DVCS won't make you taller, more muscular or attractive though (i've tried - 
 it really doesn't work) so use your best judgement.
 
 On Wednesday, 3 November 2010 at 6:43 PM, silky wrote:
 
 On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com 
 wrote:
 
 
 
 argumentative? silky? GTFO!
 
 
 :)
 
 
 
 
 
 Most of my experience with DVCS has been with
 mercurial (hg) which I've used for about the last 2 years for my personal
 stuff. Before that I used SVN. I think the difference (from my point of
 view) is that hg works well in a super-set of configurations to TFS/SVN. If
 you were a solo developer with TFS installed locally then hg probably
 wouldn't be that much better (it certainly handles branching, merging and
 backing up more cleanly than TFS/SVN). But most people don't work that  way
 - the server is remote. If you want to look at the 'history' for a file or
 do a diff it's a network operation. Checking out is a network operation (at
 least for TFS it is...not sur e about SVN). In the case of TFS

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[silky]

On Sun, Nov 7, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Yeah, tfs integration is very good. There is a dvcs that has integrated bug,
 work item tracking and wiki (called fossil) from the makers of sqlite. I
 haven't used it, but it will be interesting to see how long tfs retains this
 advantage.

You've been able to do this since forever with svn+trac, and it looks
like there is a plugin for mercurial as well:
http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracMercurial


 Joseph
 --

 w: http://jcooney.net
 t: @josephcooney

-- 
silky

http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
of being this signature.

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Mark Ryall]

 I'm using svn again now after using git and hg for a few years (tfs was in
there too - i don't want to talk about that).  I always liked svn and found
it adequate but don't anymore.

There's nothing a DVCS provides that you can't live without - just as 64Kb
of RAM was once perfectly adequate.

There are just a whole lot of things with DVCS that suddenly become easier
or possible.  While you might not have considered these things earlier
(because you couldn't), you really miss them when you can't.

They are insanely fast - especially git.  You will notice how fast they are
every time you need to do a commit.  Insanely fast encourages more frequent
commits.  The fact that after a clone, you end up with the entire history of
a project locally (including every branch) in far less time than svn would
take to check out a single code line (due to all the thousands of tiny
control files it needs to create in every directory) is the winner for me.

Hosting is free or really cheap (bitbucket/github/launchpad).

For an open source project, fork/send pull request is a much lower barrier
to entry for collaboration than checkout/email patch file.  If you accept a
pull request, that person's commit becomes part of your codebase as them
without you needing to provide direct commit access (as opposed to their
changes being committed from a patch by you).

I prefer to avoid branching where possible but they make branching
effortlessly easy.  Merging with git/hg is trivial and is properly tracked
unlike with svn.  Merging is always awful but git in particular seems to
have some preternatural ability to help you get it right.

DVCS won't make you taller, more muscular or attractive though (i've tried -
it really doesn't work) so use your best judgement.

On Wednesday, 3 November 2010 at 6:43 PM, silky wrote:

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com
wrote:

argumentative? silky? GTFO!


:)


Most of my experience with DVCS has been with
mercurial (hg) which I've used for about the last 2 years for my personal
stuff. Before that I used SVN. I think the difference (from my point of
view) is that hg works well in a super-set of configurations to TFS/SVN. If
you were a solo developer with TFS installed locally then hg probably
wouldn't be that much better (it certainly handles branching, merging and
backing up more cleanly than TFS/SVN). But most people don't work that  way
- the server is remote. If you want to look at the 'history' for a file or
do a diff it's a network operation. Checking out is a network operation (at
least for TFS it is...not sur e about SVN). In the case of TFS 2008 when the
server was off-line work ground to a halt. With hg sometimes there _is_ no
central server. I've had good experiences collaborating with other devs
using hg with no central server set up, just sending patches back and forth
for synchronization. You can set up your development processes such that
your DVCS is fairly centralized (like things would be with TFS/SVN) - devs
commit and push/pull often. Then you just get the perf wins of local disk
I/O vs. network I/O and better merging capabilities.


Yeah, this is what I thought. And I can't help but feel this is
totally overrated. I mean, I don't know a single person who would say
using SVN is slow. It's never slowed me down at all (perhaps I'm just
slow in general?). Checkout takes a while, sure, but you don't do that
every day. Infact, you normally only do it a few times, perhaps when
creating a branch or something.

O kay, so you are telling me that perhaps git/hg is better because you
automatically get your 'own' repo and you need to specifically 'push'
it to the core; thus kind of creating a versioned development pattern
automatically. Alright. I can accept that as useful.


High-level summary (from my POV) - DVCS well in a super-set of
configurations to old skool SVN/TFS/CVS
Joseph


--

w: http://jcooney.net
t: @josephcooney


-- 
silky

http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
of being this signature.

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[silky]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Paul Stovell paul.stov...@readify.net wrote:
   Broken how?

[...]

 In Mercurial it works different. You'd pull the 19 changes made to the trunk 
 to your local repository - they'd be replayed, one-by-one, against your
 files. You'll still do the merges (leaving alone that Mercurial does a much 
 better job of merging than TFS out of the box), but since you're dealing
 with one or two commits at a time, the merges are pretty simple, and if you 
 screw up, you don't have to start the whole thing again. Once you've
 merged the trunk into your branch, you'd just push everything back to trunk. 
 Now all the changes are replayed against trunk, and trunk has all 32
 commits, with their history and dates exactly as you wrote them when you 
 checked them in during the week. It's a much more elegant model.

Right. (Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I haven't used TFS and was more
interested in how you consider Subversions merge broken; I understand
that in the system you are describing it is 'different', I don't see
any point in calling Subversion 'broken' though).


 Paul

-- 
silky

http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
of being this signature.

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[David Burstin]

time waste - no real info
Just adding my 2c:

I used to use Subversion and loved it - it did everything I wanted it to do.
One day I had some time on my hands and decided to try Mercurial, just to
see what it was like. I have never used Subversion since. 90% of my stuff is
single developer and local (when I'm on contract I use whatever the use, so
that doesn't count). Like Paul says, it's really one of those things that
you need to try to see the difference. I feel safer and more in control
with Mercurial, it's easier to branch and merge and overall just feels
nicer.

It's all just airy fairy stuff - this post contains no real new information.
Probably  could have just summed it up by saying +1 to Mercurial. I haven't
used TFS.
/time waste - no real info


On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:30 PM, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:10 PM, Paul Stovell paul.stov...@readify.net
 wrote:
Broken how?

 [...]

  In Mercurial it works different. You'd pull the 19 changes made to the
 trunk to your local repository - they'd be replayed, one-by-one, against
 your
  files. You'll still do the merges (leaving alone that Mercurial does a
 much better job of merging than TFS out of the box), but since you're
 dealing
  with one or two commits at a time, the merges are pretty simple, and if
 you screw up, you don't have to start the whole thing again. Once you've
  merged the trunk into your branch, you'd just push everything back to
 trunk. Now all the changes are replayed against trunk, and trunk has all 32
  commits, with their history and dates exactly as you wrote them when you
 checked them in during the week. It's a much more elegant model.

 Right. (Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I haven't used TFS and was more
 interested in how you consider Subversions merge broken; I understand
 that in the system you are describing it is 'different', I don't see
 any point in calling Subversion 'broken' though).


  Paul

 --
 silky

 http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

 Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
 of being this signature.

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[silky]

 Yeah, this is what I thought. And I can't help but feel this is
 totally overrated. I mean, I don't know a single person who would say
 using SVN is slow.

 It is glacially slow when your repository is not local.  There, a
 single person has said it.  Look at minute/s to do something like a
 diff at times.  Go off and make a coffee/s if you're doing an entire
 update.  Have lunch if you're picking up all the code for the first
 time.

Yeah, but I don't know you :)

And I'll respond with the opposite claim. It's not slow, and my SVN
repo is on an amazon server *over https*. And it's still fine. Now,
I'm not committing megs of stuff at once, but nevertheless. *That's*
not a reason to change.

However, the specific points raised previously in this thread, and the
comments from Dave have probably pushed me over the edge.


 --
 Meski

 Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
 you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills

-- 
silky

http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
of being this signature.

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[David Connors]

On 5 November 2010 08:37, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

  Yeah, this is what I thought. And I can't help but feel this is
  totally overrated. I mean, I don't know a single person who would say
  using SVN is slow.

 It is glacially slow when your repository is not local.  There, a
 single person has said it.  Look at minute/s to do something like a
 diff at times.  Go off and make a coffee/s if you're doing an entire
 update.  Have lunch if you're picking up all the code for the first
 time.


Either you have SVN set up incorrectly or the problem isn't really 'not
local' but your Internet link.

All of our stuff sits in a managed DC and we actually VPN in to our core
company network, and that is where SVN resides.

I regularly get over a meg a second doing a checkout. I just did a checkout
on a project I've not touched in a while and got 40.71 megabytes in 38
seconds - as a mixture of small files and large. I'd hardly call that
glacially slow. I'd actually call that pretty damned quick all things
considered.

I just asked it for a revision graph in the documentation folder of the same
project (at revision 542) and it only took 6 seconds.

-- 
*David Connors* | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
Software Engineer
Codify Pty Ltd
Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
189 363
V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact

RE: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[David Russell]

Hi, I would just like to say I disagree with this assessment of merging in TFS.

In TFS, you would also merge the 19 changes from Trunk into the Feature branch 
first, resolve conflicts  checkin, then merge Feature branch back into Trunk. 
This generally works well. Cherry-picking merges is a different story, but can 
also be straightforward.

It is true that a merge results in a new single 'mushed' changeset in the 
target, but this doesn't mean you lose the context of the original checkins - 
In VS 2010, the History view shows the originating changesets as a tree (even 
after the source branch has been deleted), and the Branch Visualisation tool 
can help you track a changeset across multiple branches.

That isn't to say TFS is without its problems. The trouble we have with TFS 
merges tends to be with deletes, renames, changes you DON'T want to merge, 
partial merges (for changesets that span multiple branch-points), forgetting to 
Get Latest of a target branch before merging, rollbacks, cherry-picking 
non-sequential changesets, and occasionally poor auto-merging. Thankfully, some 
of this has substantially improved in TFS 2010 since they changed to 'slot' 
mode when dealing with deletes, renames, and undeletes, as well as a proper 
rollback command. But these problems only occur occasionally and we manage to 
deal with them.

I have not used other source control systems (other than VSS - does that count? 
;) so maybe I am missing something in the comparison, but as someone who comes 
from a background of merging code _manually_ for many years, I think TFS 
merging is generally fine I don't think it is broken.

Branch Visualization: 
http://www.edsquared.com/2010/03/17/Branching+And+Track+Changes+Visualization+In+TFS+2010+Is+Awesome.aspx
'Slot' mode: 
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/mitrik/archive/2009/05/28/changing-to-slot-mode-in-tfs-2010-version-control.aspx


-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Paul Stovell
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:11 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: RE: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

 Broken how?

Let's say you decide to implement a new feature in a TFS branch. You branch the 
trunk to FeatureX. Over the course of a week, you make 13 check-ins to that 
branch. During this time, the rest of your team made another 19 changes to the 
trunk. The feature is now stable, so you decide to merge. In TFS, this is done 
by doing a giant compare on the two directories, AND'ing them together, and 
seeing what falls out. You aren't just merging a check-ins - you're merging the 
state of two file system directories after 32 different check ins in a single 
attempt - you better get it right, because if you get 90% of the way in and 
screw it up, it will take a long time to recover. 

When you're done merging, you're left with  a huge pending check in that 
touches every file involved in those 13 commits. You have to come up with a 
nice paragraph that sums up the 13 changes you're mushing in, because when you 
delete the branch, you'll probably lose the history of those branched changes. 
You should also remember to associate it with all of the work 
items/bugs/stories those 13 check ins touched, since this huge check in is 
really associated with all of them. 

In Mercurial it works different. You'd pull the 19 changes made to the trunk to 
your local repository - they'd be replayed, one-by-one, against your files. 
You'll still do the merges (leaving alone that Mercurial does a much better job 
of merging than TFS out of the box), but since you're dealing with one or two 
commits at a time, the merges are pretty simple, and if you screw up, you don't 
have to start the whole thing again. Once you've merged the trunk into your 
branch, you'd just push everything back to trunk. Now all the changes are 
replayed against trunk, and trunk has all 32 commits, with their history and 
dates exactly as you wrote them when you checked them in during the week. It's 
a much more elegant model. 

Paul

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of silky
Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 4:51 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Paul Stovell paul.stov...@readify.net wrote:
 Hi Silky,

 I think in some ways you have to experience it - the proof is in the 
 tasting. But here are some things I like about it that work even for 
 small, local teams.

 1.   How many times did you make a small change, then delete it 
 and try something else, only to realize that you didn't check in 
 during that time since it wasn't ready to share with the team? Since 
 most of your interaction with source control is just to your hard 
 disk, you're more likely to use it. On my current project with 
 Mercurial I'm averaging a commit every 10 minutes - lots of small changes

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Grant Molloy]

Putting the flavour of your DVCS aside for the moment...
How secure do you feel having all your code, IP, etc, sitting on somebody
elses servers ?
If they shut up shop tomorrow, do you keep a local copy of everything too ??
What cost per month are you paying to have it hosted *in the cloud* ?
(sounds so Web 3.0 !!).

Grant

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:11 AM, David Russell druss...@iress.com.au wrote:

 Hi, I would just like to say I disagree with this assessment of merging in
 TFS.

 In TFS, you would also merge the 19 changes from Trunk into the Feature
 branch first, resolve conflicts  checkin, then merge Feature branch back
 into Trunk. This generally works well. Cherry-picking merges is a different
 story, but can also be straightforward.

 It is true that a merge results in a new single 'mushed' changeset in the
 target, but this doesn't mean you lose the context of the original checkins
 - In VS 2010, the History view shows the originating changesets as a tree
 (even after the source branch has been deleted), and the Branch
 Visualisation tool can help you track a changeset across multiple branches.

 That isn't to say TFS is without its problems. The trouble we have with TFS
 merges tends to be with deletes, renames, changes you DON'T want to merge,
 partial merges (for changesets that span multiple branch-points), forgetting
 to Get Latest of a target branch before merging, rollbacks, cherry-picking
 non-sequential changesets, and occasionally poor auto-merging. Thankfully,
 some of this has substantially improved in TFS 2010 since they changed to
 'slot' mode when dealing with deletes, renames, and undeletes, as well as a
 proper rollback command. But these problems only occur occasionally and we
 manage to deal with them.

 I have not used other source control systems (other than VSS - does that
 count? ;) so maybe I am missing something in the comparison, but as someone
 who comes from a background of merging code _manually_ for many years, I
 think TFS merging is generally fine I don't think it is broken.

 Branch Visualization:
 http://www.edsquared.com/2010/03/17/Branching+And+Track+Changes+Visualization+In+TFS+2010+Is+Awesome.aspx
 'Slot' mode:
 http://blogs.msdn.com/b/mitrik/archive/2009/05/28/changing-to-slot-mode-in-tfs-2010-version-control.aspx


 -Original Message-
 From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
 On Behalf Of Paul Stovell
 Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 6:11 PM
 To: ozDotNet
 Subject: RE: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

  Broken how?

 Let's say you decide to implement a new feature in a TFS branch. You branch
 the trunk to FeatureX. Over the course of a week, you make 13 check-ins to
 that branch. During this time, the rest of your team made another 19 changes
 to the trunk. The feature is now stable, so you decide to merge. In TFS,
 this is done by doing a giant compare on the two directories, AND'ing them
 together, and seeing what falls out. You aren't just merging a check-ins -
 you're merging the state of two file system directories after 32 different
 check ins in a single attempt - you better get it right, because if you get
 90% of the way in and screw it up, it will take a long time to recover.

 When you're done merging, you're left with  a huge pending check in that
 touches every file involved in those 13 commits. You have to come up with a
 nice paragraph that sums up the 13 changes you're mushing in, because when
 you delete the branch, you'll probably lose the history of those branched
 changes. You should also remember to associate it with all of the work
 items/bugs/stories those 13 check ins touched, since this huge check in is
 really associated with all of them.

 In Mercurial it works different. You'd pull the 19 changes made to the
 trunk to your local repository - they'd be replayed, one-by-one, against
 your files. You'll still do the merges (leaving alone that Mercurial does a
 much better job of merging than TFS out of the box), but since you're
 dealing with one or two commits at a time, the merges are pretty simple, and
 if you screw up, you don't have to start the whole thing again. Once you've
 merged the trunk into your branch, you'd just push everything back to trunk.
 Now all the changes are replayed against trunk, and trunk has all 32
 commits, with their history and dates exactly as you wrote them when you
 checked them in during the week. It's a much more elegant model.

 Paul

 -Original Message-
 From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com]
 On Behalf Of silky
 Sent: Thursday, 4 November 2010 4:51 PM
 To: ozDotNet
 Subject: Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

 On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 5:40 PM, Paul Stovell paul.stov...@readify.net
 wrote:
  Hi Silky,
 
  I think in some ways you have to experience it - the proof is in the
  tasting. But here are some things I like about it that work even for
  small

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Grant Molloy]

Hi Silky,
Wasn't directed directly at you, but at anyone who wants to provide an
answer...

Wow... $90 a month IS expensive.. but tax deductible !!


On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 9:59 AM, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Grant Molloy graken...@gmail.com wrote:
  Putting the flavour of your DVCS aside for the moment...
 
  How secure do you feel having all your code, IP, etc, sitting on
 somebody
  elses servers ?
 
  If they shut up shop tomorrow, do you keep a local copy of everything too
 ??
  What cost per month are you paying to have it hosted *in the cloud* ?
  (sounds so Web 3.0 !!).

 Who is this directed to? Me? (because I've got SVN hosted at amazon?)

 I feel fine. I've got backups of all my code on two drives anyway, and
 of course I have it all on my laptop.

 If Amazon shut up shop tomorrow, I'll lose a bit of data, but not much
 else.

 Any reasonable person has backups ...

 The server I have cost ~90 per month. It's expensive.


  Grant

 --
 silky

 http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

 Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
 of being this signature.

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[mike smith]

On 5 November 2010 09:55, David Connors da...@codify.com wrote:
 On 5 November 2010 08:37, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:

  Yeah, this is what I thought. And I can't help but feel this is
  totally overrated. I mean, I don't know a single person who would say
  using SVN is slow.

 It is glacially slow when your repository is not local.  There, a
 single person has said it.  Look at minute/s to do something like a
 diff at times.  Go off and make a coffee/s if you're doing an entire
 update.  Have lunch if you're picking up all the code for the first
 time.

 Either you have SVN set up incorrectly or the problem isn't really 'not
 local' but your Internet link.

Quite possible, but I have no way of getting either tweaked in my
corporate environment.

 All of our stuff sits in a managed DC and we actually VPN in to our core
 company network, and that is where SVN resides.
 I regularly get over a meg a second doing a checkout. I just did a checkout
 on a project I've not touched in a while and got 40.71 megabytes in 38
 seconds - as a mixture of small files and large. I'd hardly call that
 glacially slow. I'd actually call that pretty damned quick all things

Update ...
1.5 min to get initial response.

7.7 MB in 4min 13 sec.
Merged 2 Added 22 updated 155



 considered.
 I just asked it for a revision graph in the documentation folder of the same
 project (at revision 542) and it only took 6 seconds.

4min

 --
 David Connors | da...@codify.com | www.codify.com
 Software Engineer
 Codify Pty Ltd
 Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417
 189 363
 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors
 Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact





-- 
Meski

Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[mike smith]

On 5 November 2010 10:59, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Grant Molloy graken...@gmail.com wrote:
 Putting the flavour of your DVCS aside for the moment...

 How secure do you feel having all your code, IP, etc, sitting on somebody
 elses servers ?

 If they shut up shop tomorrow, do you keep a local copy of everything too ??
 What cost per month are you paying to have it hosted *in the cloud* ?
 (sounds so Web 3.0 !!).

 Who is this directed to? Me? (because I've got SVN hosted at amazon?)

 I feel fine. I've got backups of all my code on two drives anyway, and
 of course I have it all on my laptop.

 If Amazon shut up shop tomorrow, I'll lose a bit of data, but not much else.

 Any reasonable person has backups ...

Backups of the code, or the rev history and all that?




-- 
Meski

Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[silky]

On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 12:42 PM, mike smith meski...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 5 November 2010 10:59, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Fri, Nov 5, 2010 at 10:54 AM, Grant Molloy graken...@gmail.com wrote:
 Putting the flavour of your DVCS aside for the moment...

 How secure do you feel having all your code, IP, etc, sitting on somebody
 elses servers ?

 If they shut up shop tomorrow, do you keep a local copy of everything too ??
 What cost per month are you paying to have it hosted *in the cloud* ?
 (sounds so Web 3.0 !!).

 Who is this directed to? Me? (because I've got SVN hosted at amazon?)

 I feel fine. I've got backups of all my code on two drives anyway, and
 of course I have it all on my laptop.

 If Amazon shut up shop tomorrow, I'll lose a bit of data, but not much else.

 Any reasonable person has backups ...

 Backups of the code, or the rev history and all that?

Code.

I'll admit I haven't got an full svn backup going on the server at the
moment, but to be honest if I lose that I'm not going to be too
concerned.


 --
 Meski

 Going to Starbucks for coffee is like going to prison for sex. Sure,
 you'll get it, but it's going to be rough - Adam Hills

-- 
silky

http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
of being this signature.

TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Les Hughes]

Hi All,

I was just looking to get a little feedback on CVS tools/etc?

I am to start another project with a small team, and was wondering is 
TFS is worth using (I haven't even seen it run yet... wondering if it is 
worth the time...)


Also, has anyone after using TFS decided to go back to subversion/etc? 
If so, why?


Thanks :)
--
Les Hughes
l...@datarev.com.au

Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Joseph Cooney]

I've used TFS on and off since about 2006 (mostly because I was working at
MS, as they are fond of TFS), but haven't used TFS 2010. It's biggest
strength IMO is integration - requirements, work items, bugs, builds, source
code and project documentation all from within Visual Studio. It's biggest
weakness is that it's not a distributed version control system (git,
mercurial). If you're just going to use it as a revision control system
you're missing out on 80-90% of what TFS has to offer (and thus it might not
be worth it). TFS 2010 is a major update to the product (v2 really, since
2008 was really a v1.1) so I'm doubtless overlooking some cool features
there 'cause I haven't used it.

Joseph

On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:31 PM, Les Hughes l...@datarev.com.au wrote:

 Hi All,

 I was just looking to get a little feedback on CVS tools/etc?

 I am to start another project with a small team, and was wondering is TFS
 is worth using (I haven't even seen it run yet... wondering if it is worth
 the time...)

 Also, has anyone after using TFS decided to go back to subversion/etc? If
 so, why?

 Thanks :)
 --
 Les Hughes
 l...@datarev.com.au




-- 

w: http://jcooney.net
t: @josephcooney

Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[silky]

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've used TFS on and off since about 2006 (mostly because I was working at
 MS, as they are fond of TFS), but haven't used TFS 2010. It's biggest
 strength IMO is integration - requirements, work items, bugs, builds, source
 code and project documentation all from within Visual Studio. It's biggest
 weakness is that it's not a distributed version control system (git,
 mercurial).

Without sounding too argumentative; exactly why should I care that
version control is distributed?

The stated arguments seem to be that you don't need to be online to do
commits, or that there is a local history, or some other such things.
I really just don't ever find the need for anything like that; am I
doing something significantly different to everyone else?

I mean, I've glanced over this:
http://betterexplained.com/articles/intro-to-distributed-version-control-illustrated/
and it seems none of the benefits are really appropriate in a
'typical' environment.

I guess what I'm asking is - is anyone, working in an office or alone,
getting specific benefits from git or whatever, that come *purely*
from it being significantly different from SVN, and exactly what are
they?


 If you're just going to use it as a revision control system
 you're missing out on 80-90% of what TFS has to offer (and thus it might not
 be worth it). TFS 2010 is a major update to the product (v2 really, since
 2008 was really a v1.1) so I'm doubtless overlooking some cool features
 there 'cause I haven't used it.
 Joseph

 w: http://jcooney.net
 t: @josephcooney

-- 
silky

http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
of being this signature.

RE: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Dylan Tusler]

We're in the process of migrating from TFS 2008 to TFS 2010. I don't think we'd 
look at any other system now. We use the work item integration with source code 
control quite heavily, even though the dev team is quite small. We also use 
modified work item for our Change Control system, and that has worked out well 
too.

We have even used the Sharepoint repositories a bit, though somewhat 
sporadically, and for a couple of projects we've even used the build server, 
for which I was quite grateful.

Previously we had a mix of SourceSafe and CVS in use here.

There is definitely an improvement in TFS2010 in terms of Work Item 
hierarchies, that we have been sorely missing here. Looking forward to it!

Dylan.


 

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Les Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, 3 November 2010 10:32 PM
To: michaelsli...@gmail.com; ozDotNet
Subject: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

Hi All,

I was just looking to get a little feedback on CVS tools/etc?

I am to start another project with a small team, and was wondering is TFS is 
worth using (I haven't even seen it run yet... wondering if it is worth the 
time...)

Also, has anyone after using TFS decided to go back to subversion/etc? 
If so, why?

Thanks :)
--
Les Hughes
l...@datarev.com.au

-
To find out more about the Sunshine Coast Regional Council, visit your local 
office at Caloundra, Maroochydore, Nambour or Tewantin or visit us online at 
www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au.  If correspondence includes personal information, 
please refer to Council's Privacy Policy at http://www.sunshinecoast.qld.gov.au 
.

This email and any attachments are confidential and only for the use of the 
addressee.  If you have received this email in error you are requested to 
notify the sender by return email or contact council on 1300 00 7272 and are 
prohibited from forwarding, printing, copying or using it in anyway, in whole 
or part. Please note that some council staff utilise Blackberry devices, which 
results in information being transmitted overseas prior to delivery of any 
communication to the device.  In sending an email to Council you are agreeing 
that the content of your email may be transmitted overseas. Any views expressed 
in this email are the author's, except where the email makes it clear 
otherwise. The unauthorised publication of an email and any attachments 
generated for the official functions of council is strictly prohibited. Please 
note that council is subject to the Right to Information Act 2009 (Qld) and 
Information Privacy Act 2009 (Qld).

Re: Why DVCS, was Re: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Joseph Cooney]

argumentative? silky? GTFO! Most of my experience with DVCS has been with
mercurial (hg) which I've used for about the last 2 years for my personal
stuff. Before that I used SVN. I think the difference (from my point of
view) is that hg works well in a super-set of configurations to TFS/SVN. If
you were a solo developer with TFS installed locally then hg probably
wouldn't be that much better (it certainly handles branching, merging and
backing up more cleanly than TFS/SVN). But most people don't work that  way
- the server is remote. If you want to look at the 'history' for a file or
do a diff it's a network operation. Checking out is a network operation (at
least for TFS it is...not sure about SVN). In the case of TFS 2008 when the
server was off-line work ground to a halt. With hg sometimes there _is_ no
central server. I've had good experiences collaborating with other devs
using hg with no central server set up, just sending patches back and forth
for synchronization. You can set up your development processes such that
your DVCS is fairly centralized (like things would be with TFS/SVN) - devs
commit and push/pull often. Then you just get the perf wins of local disk
I/O vs. network I/O and better merging capabilities.

High-level summary (from my POV) - DVCS well in a super-set of
configurations to old skool SVN/TFS/CVS

Joseph

On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 8:28 AM, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 6:26 AM, Joseph Cooney joseph.coo...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  I've used TFS on and off since about 2006 (mostly because I was working
 at
  MS, as they are fond of TFS), but haven't used TFS 2010. It's biggest
  strength IMO is integration - requirements, work items, bugs, builds,
 source
  code and project documentation all from within Visual Studio. It's
 biggest
  weakness is that it's not a distributed version control system (git,
  mercurial).

 Without sounding too argumentative; exactly why should I care that
 version control is distributed?

 The stated arguments seem to be that you don't need to be online to do
 commits, or that there is a local history, or some other such things.
 I really just don't ever find the need for anything like that; am I
 doing something significantly different to everyone else?

 I mean, I've glanced over this:

 http://betterexplained.com/articles/intro-to-distributed-version-control-illustrated/
 and it seems none of the benefits are really appropriate in a
 'typical' environment.

 I guess what I'm asking is - is anyone, working in an office or alone,
 getting specific benefits from git or whatever, that come *purely*
 from it being significantly different from SVN, and exactly what are
 they?


  If you're just going to use it as a revision control system
  you're missing out on 80-90% of what TFS has to offer (and thus it might
 not
  be worth it). TFS 2010 is a major update to the product (v2 really, since
  2008 was really a v1.1) so I'm doubtless overlooking some cool features
  there 'cause I haven't used it.
  Joseph
 
  w: http://jcooney.net
  t: @josephcooney

 --
 silky

 http://dnoondt.wordpress.com/

 Every morning when I wake up, I experience an exquisite joy — the joy
 of being this signature.




-- 

w: http://jcooney.net
t: @josephcooney

RE: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Alastair Waddell]

Hi Les,

I have used a few (Source safe / TFS / Borland Starteam / Subversion) in
my dealings as a contractor, and have to say I am very happy with TFS.

I guess it all depends on what you are after - Just source control or
the full ALM?

At the office we use TFS 2008 to get bug tracking, reports etc, but for
my personal stuff I am using TFS2010 basic on a Windows home server just
for source control.

Install was a breeze and it just works! I can access everything remotely
and It feels like a first class citizen in VS.

I wouldn't consider going back myself.

That said though, we do have issues with TFS at the office with a team
of devs - but almost always it's the developer's actions that cause the
problems.

Things like changing files outside VS (so TFS doesn't know its changed),
or overwriting the server version instead of merging, leaving files
exclusively locked, and it has taken a bit of time to educate on good
Project structure for source control and the branching and merging
strategies, but these are going to be issues with any system.

It does help to have the power tools and I also use Team foundation
sidekicks to manage the office install.

So is it worth the time? - Yes


Alastair

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com
[mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On Behalf Of Les Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, 3 November 2010 8:32 PM
To: michaelsli...@gmail.com; ozDotNet
Subject: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

Hi All,

I was just looking to get a little feedback on CVS tools/etc?

I am to start another project with a small team, and was wondering is
TFS is worth using (I haven't even seen it run yet... wondering if it is

worth the time...)

Also, has anyone after using TFS decided to go back to subversion/etc?
If so, why?

Thanks :)
--
Les Hughes
l...@datarev.com.au





Important Notice
This email contains information which is confidential and intended solely for 
the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed.  Please notify the 
sender immediately if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this 
email from your system.  If you are not the intended recipient, any form of 
distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information contained 
or attached is strictly prohibited.  Although Disability Services Commission 
has taken reasonable precautions to ensure no viruses are present in this 
email, the Commission cannot accept responsibility for any loss or damage 
arising from the use of this email or attachments.

RE: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

[Maddin, Peter]

We (both of us) are using TFS Workgroup edition basically for source code 
control only at present.
Will be using other features such as adding tasks for bugs etc when UA testing 
gets under way.

I am quite happy with it. Occasionally a few things do get screwed up due to 
our inexperience but we have not had any problems recovering from these (just 
sweated a bit).

Would like to use the other features but we don't have the time at present.

If we weren't using it we would be using Subversion of which I have heard good 
things.

Regards Peter Maddin
Applications Development Officer
PathWest Laboratory Medicine WA
Phone : +618 9473 3944
Fax : +618 9473 3982
E-Mail : peter.mad...@pathwest.wa.gov.au
The contents of this e-mail transmission outside of the WAGHS network are 
intended solely for the named recipient's), may be confidential, and may be 
privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure in the public interest. The 
use, reproduction, disclosure or distribution of the contents of this e-mail 
transmission by any person other than the named recipient(s) is prohibited. If 
you are not a named recipient please notify the sender immediately.

-Original Message-
From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Les Hughes
Sent: Wednesday, 3 November 2010 8:32 PM
To: michaelsli...@gmail.com; ozDotNet
Subject: TFS Feedaback? Anyone moved away from it?

Hi All,

I was just looking to get a little feedback on CVS tools/etc?

I am to start another project with a small team, and was wondering is 
TFS is worth using (I haven't even seen it run yet... wondering if it is 
worth the time...)

Also, has anyone after using TFS decided to go back to subversion/etc? 
If so, why?

Thanks :)
--
Les Hughes
l...@datarev.com.au

TFS 2010 Presentation Slides

[Deepak Kapoor]

Hello everyone,

I am doing a presentation on TFS 2010 within my company and I'd like to use
slides which do not suck. I remember there were TFS 2010 slide decks
available from Microsoft for download but I can't find the links to them.
Googling or Bing-ing has not been much help either.

Can anyone reply with links to TFS 2010 slide decks?

Many Thanks,

Deepak

RE: [OT] TFS 2008 Issue

[Hemal Modi]

I have managed to resolve these issue. As it turned out the client didn’t have 
sufficient access privileges to the TFS assets on the server. The solution was 
to:

 

1.   Launch TFS Admin tool on the server under administrative privileges

a.   Connect to the server root

b.  Assign following roles to TFS Administrator or the domain user 
responsible for creating TFS projects:

   i.  
SharePoint Role: Full Control

 ii.  Reporting 
Service Role: Content Manager

2.   Login into SharePoint Central Administration:

a.   Navigate to Operations à Security Configuration à Update farm 
administrator’s group

b.  Add the TFS Administrator or the domain user to this group

 

Further, it is crucial that VS 2008 client is used to create new TFS project as 
there are further issues when creating new project using TFS 2010 client.

 

I hope this helps someone in similar situation.

 

Kind regards,

Hemal Modi

 

 

From: ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com [mailto:ozdotnet-boun...@ozdotnet.com] On 
Behalf Of Hemal Modi
Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2010 2:13 PM
To: ozDotNet
Subject: [OT] TFS 2008 Issue

 

Hi all,

 

I recently built our Development Environment using TFS 2008 SP1 workgroup 
edition. The TFS server is installed on Windows Server 2008 hyper V image.

 

The TFS installation went well as is evident through:

 

1.   TFS Best practices analyser shows no errors.

2.   I am able to connect to TFS site http://tfs-server

3.   I am able to set permissions for users using team explorer.

 

However, I am having following two issues:

 

1.   I am unable to connect on the TFS Server using the TFS admin tool.

2.   When trying to create a new project from the client I get following 
error:

---

Microsoft Visual Studio

---

TF218027: The following reporting folder could not be created on the server 
that is running SQL Server Reporting Services: /. The report server is located 
at: http://tfs-server/Reports. The error is: TF249061: You cannot access the 
following report item: /. Access was denied because your account does not have 
one or more permissions required to access this item.. Verify that the path is 
correct and that you have sufficient permissions to create a folder on that 
server, and then try again..

---

OK   

---

 

I am unable to resolve above issues and your help is much appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

Hemal Modi

[OT] TFS 2008 Issue

[Hemal Modi]

Hi all,

 

I recently built our Development Environment using TFS 2008 SP1 workgroup 
edition. The TFS server is installed on Windows Server 2008 hyper V image.

 

The TFS installation went well as is evident through:

 

1.   TFS Best practices analyser shows no errors.

2.   I am able to connect to TFS site http://tfs-server

3.   I am able to set permissions for users using team explorer.

 

However, I am having following two issues:

 

1.   I am unable to connect on the TFS Server using the TFS admin tool.

2.   When trying to create a new project from the client I get following 
error:

---

Microsoft Visual Studio

---

TF218027: The following reporting folder could not be created on the server 
that is running SQL Server Reporting Services: /. The report server is located 
at: http://tfs-server/Reports. The error is: TF249061: You cannot access the 
following report item: /. Access was denied because your account does not have 
one or more permissions required to access this item.. Verify that the path is 
correct and that you have sufficient permissions to create a folder on that 
server, and then try again..

---

OK   

---

 

I am unable to resolve above issues and your help is much appreciated.

 

Kind regards,

Hemal Modi