RE: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Bob W]

> 
> Gee thanks.  Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt?
> 
> Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'?
> Do you know why?
> 

The French word for a goal is 'but'. To score a goal is marquer un
but. Butt is more or less directly derived from that word. That word
itself is derived from a word for the end of a barrel (butt) or tree
stump, which was used as the target in archery. It is all in the same
sense field as 'thick' and 'end' and the word 'buttock' is derived
from the same source and applied metaphor to one's glutes.

It's not just archery targets, of course. Rifle ranges are also called
butts. In cadets at school it was always rather fun to be in the butts
changing the targets and listening to the bullets zinging overhead.

--
 Bob
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of John Francis
> Sent: 27 September 2007 23:10
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> 
> 
> 
> Gee thanks.  Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt?
> 
> Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'?
> Do you know why?
> 
> 
> As far as the Pentax Gallery goes - I didn't submit originally
> for a couple of reasons; my first attempt didn't work (because
> I was trying to submit a scanned image, and there was a bug in
> their validation code), and I never got round to writing a bio.
> 
> Now, after hearing of all the various problems others are having,
> I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't
> written a bio).
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:07:05PM +0100, Bob W wrote:
> > >  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> > 
> > You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The
Blind
> > Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him,
and
> > to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the
> > stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the
arrow?
> > Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your 
> hand must not
> > know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as
> > melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the
> > string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. 
> > 
> > Hope that helps.
> > 
> > --
> >  Bob
> >  
> > 
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > > Behalf Of frank theriault
> > > Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29
> > > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > > Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> > > 
> > > On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > >Question: how subjective is this standard?
> > > >
> > > > Same as all competitions: Very.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest
> > because,
> > > > unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the 
> same target
> > > > (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not 
> > > agree with their
> > > > choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to
> > achieve
> > > > what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer.
> > > >
> > > > I find that creating works that please someone else is 
> a lot more
> > > > demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating 
> > > things that
> > > > please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> > > 
> > > I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I 
> don't know what
> > > the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> > > 
> > > There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the 
> "accepted
> > > artists' voting":  How many votes are required to be accepted or
> > > rejected?  What percentage of "yes" votes is required for
> > acceptance?
> > >  and even then, it states clearly that those that get 
> past the first
> > > "screening" can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel. 
>  We don't
> > > know who those people are, and what they're looking for.
> > > 
> > > It's all very "closed door", which to me makes it something of a
> > > crap-shoot.  I'm not sure how submitting many photos and 
> having them
> > > all rejected makes me a better photographer.
> > > 
> > > It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking 
> that if I
> > > want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me.  Some
may
> > find
> > > this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't.
> > > 
> > > I mean, hey, no hard feelings.  Pentax can run this thing any
way
> > they
> > > want;  it's their contest.  However, if this is the way 
> they choose
> > to
> > > run it, my choice is to not participate.
> > > 
> > > cheers,
> > > frank
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > > PDML@pdml.net
> > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly 
> > > above and foll

Re: Lucky Enablement

[Boris Liberman]

Congratulations!

John Celio wrote:
> The DA21 Limited I won in the Pentaxian.com contest arrived yesterday!

Boris

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Re: Lucky Enablement

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "John Celio" 
Subject: Lucky Enablement


> 
> 
> This is only the second Limited lens I've experienced (the first being a 
> 77mm that Shel let me use for a few minutes a couple years ago), 

I quite liked that lens as well.

William Robb

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Re: Lucky Enablement

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Excellent! I'm glad to hear it arrived quickly. Use it well and enjoy  
it, the DA21 is a delightful lens.

I don't like the standard "hood" or cap, but it's little bother to  
replace them with something more normal. My lens hood is from an  
Olympus OM system Zuiko 28mm f/3.5, fits the lens like it was made  
with the DA21 in mind.

And fifty bucks from Amazon.com? Hmmm... Annie Leibovitz "A  
Photographer's Life" is about $48. Now that would be a sensible way  
to soak up some found money ... ;-)

best,
Godfrey


On Sep 27, 2007, at 10:04 PM, John Celio wrote:

> The DA21 Limited I won in the Pentaxian.com contest arrived yesterday!
>
> I'm still in a state of shock over it all, actually.  When I look  
> at the
> lens on my K10D, it looks completely alien, I'm so used to bigger,  
> cheaper
> lenses.  A small part of my brain panics, wondering how I could  
> afford to
> buy such a thing, even though the rest of my brain knows better.
>
> The first pics I took with it were of my cat, and they weren't  
> particularly
> great, so I'll save y'all the bandwidth.  Now that I've got a wide  
> prime,
> I'm thinking of trying some street photography.  San Francisco's  
> Folsom
> Street Fair is coming up, I think, and there's no shortage of  
> interesting
> subjects there.
>
> This is only the second Limited lens I've experienced (the first  
> being a
> 77mm that Shel let me use for a few minutes a couple years ago),  
> and I'm
> amazed by the build quality and general feel of the DA21.  The hood  
> is one
> weird piece of metal, but I do like how compact it is.  The cap is  
> going to
> take some getting used to, that's for sure.  Overall I love this  
> lens, it's
> just going to take a little while to get used to it, in many ways.  :)
>
> Today I won a $50 Amazon.com gift certificate.  Perhaps my luck is  
> finally
> turning?


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Re: Decent photo sites?

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

It's so cheap to get a domain name and a hosting service nowadays  
that doesn't have a bunch of advertising, etc, on it.  
Netsolutions.com and GoDaddy.com offer such service for very little  
money; my site, www.gdgphoto.com, essentially costs me $5 a month for  
web serving, ftp access, and email combined, and I'm in complete  
control of it.

A dozen different software packages, notably Photoshop, JAlbum,  
Lightroom, iView MediaPro (or whatever Micro$oft is calling it  
nowadays), etc, will generate picture galleries for you too: all you  
need to do is upload the files to the webserver once you've got them  
put together.

If you own an Apple system running Mac OS X, you can buy a .Mac  
account which nets you webserver, email, easy management, templated  
HTML, etc etc, with 10G of online storage and $8/month (prepaid  
annually).

Godfrey



On Sep 27, 2007, at 9:51 PM, Debra Wilborn wrote:

> I'm looking for a place to host photos.  Right now I
> have a few things on Flickr here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
> (Feedback welcome, by the way.)
>
> It seems however that Flickr likes to resize
> everything to 500 pixels.  Kind of smallish.  What
> hosting service, if any, do y'all like?


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Lucky Enablement

[John Celio]

The DA21 Limited I won in the Pentaxian.com contest arrived yesterday!

I'm still in a state of shock over it all, actually.  When I look at the 
lens on my K10D, it looks completely alien, I'm so used to bigger, cheaper 
lenses.  A small part of my brain panics, wondering how I could afford to 
buy such a thing, even though the rest of my brain knows better.

The first pics I took with it were of my cat, and they weren't particularly 
great, so I'll save y'all the bandwidth.  Now that I've got a wide prime, 
I'm thinking of trying some street photography.  San Francisco's Folsom 
Street Fair is coming up, I think, and there's no shortage of interesting 
subjects there.

This is only the second Limited lens I've experienced (the first being a 
77mm that Shel let me use for a few minutes a couple years ago), and I'm 
amazed by the build quality and general feel of the DA21.  The hood is one 
weird piece of metal, but I do like how compact it is.  The cap is going to 
take some getting used to, that's for sure.  Overall I love this lens, it's 
just going to take a little while to get used to it, in many ways.  :)

Today I won a $50 Amazon.com gift certificate.  Perhaps my luck is finally 
turning?

John

--
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http://www.cafepress.com/neovenatorphoto 


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Re: Decent photo sites?

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Debra Wilborn"
Subject: Decent photo sites?


> I'm looking for a place to host photos.  Right now I
> have a few things on Flickr here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>
> (Feedback welcome, by the way.)
>
> It seems however that Flickr likes to resize
> everything to 500 pixels.  Kind of smallish.  What
> hosting service, if any, do y'all like?

Check with your ISP. I think most offer some webspace as part of the 
accounts. My ISP is a bunch of cheap ass buggers, and only give me 60mb of 
space, but with careful content selection (think of it as a personal 
contest), one can do quite a bit with that much space.
Bella's breeder thinks highly of Dreamhost.

William Robb 


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Re: Decent photo sites?

[Scott Loveless]

Debra Wilborn wrote:
> I'm looking for a place to host photos.  Right now I
> have a few things on Flickr here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> 
> (Feedback welcome, by the way.)
> 
> It seems however that Flickr likes to resize
> everything to 500 pixels.  Kind of smallish.  What
> hosting service, if any, do y'all like?
> 
Check out picasaweb.  It's a google service, so you'll need to sign up 
for a gmail account.  (Don't worry, Cotty.  She doesn't have to use it.) 
  Like flickr, it resizes photos, but it does it on the fly.  e.g. If my 
browser window is bigger than yours, I get to see a larger photo.  It's 
pretty slick.  Plus, there's a link above each photo to see the original.

picasaweb.google.com/sdloveless if you want to see how it works.

-- 
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Doug Franklin"
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"



> If you're talking about image displayed on the PDML, I'd guess that at
> least some of it is the "self selection" effect.  Basically, people who
> think well of the image are far more likely to post about it.
>

There have been occassions when a dissenting opinion has triggered an 
outpouring of loathing and abuse at the transgressor, also. There are or 
have been people on this list who are/were at least passingly familiar with 
judging pictures who rarely comment(ed) on photos for this reason.

William Robb 


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Decent photo sites?

[Debra Wilborn]

I'm looking for a place to host photos.  Right now I
have a few things on Flickr here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/

(Feedback welcome, by the way.)

It seems however that Flickr likes to resize
everything to 500 pixels.  Kind of smallish.  What
hosting service, if any, do y'all like?

Thanks,
Deb in TX


   

Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for 
today's economy) at Yahoo! Games.
http://get.games.yahoo.com/proddesc?gamekey=monopolyherenow  

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Scott Loveless]

William Robb wrote:
> 
> I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is.
> 
> William Robb
> 
Good to have you back, Bill.  :)

-- 
Scott Loveless
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "frank theriault"
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"



>
> I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
> the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
>

You can see what has been accepted can't you? The standard is there to be 
seen, but you need to learn how, and then be willing to judge your own 
pictures against those of others.

William Robb 


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Davis"
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


> Actually, I consider I'm just vying for a favorable subjective opinion
> from da 'judge'.

You may get a favourable enough opinion, and still not "win" the 
competition, in that if your picture didn't (doesn't) get published in the 
gallery, and some else's does, then subjectively speaking, the other picture 
was considered to be the better picture, given the often rather vague 
subjective criteria that is applied to artistic merit.

Shit, I just used the "A" word.

Sorry.

William Robb
 


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


> It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For
> the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the
> same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was
> submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew
> the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours
> competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it
> matters a hoot:-).

Bullshit, it just proves some are more equal than others, no matter what the
old adage says. Some may consider it very important.
As an example, I don't have breeding rights on Jester, so I have nothing to
gain by his getting his championship other than bragging rights that I own a
peer recognized dog and a warm feeling someplace other than my pants, but I
still intend to show him to championship
A breeder may have several dogs in a show, this doesn't change that it is a 
competition.
Really, does the gallery differ in principle from this?

William Robb



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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Cotty"
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


> On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you
>>aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such
>>that you are competing against a standard.
>
> Question: how subjective is this standard?

I've judged a few contests. They are pretty damned subjective.
You wanna see really subjective judging, start hanging out at dog shows.

William Robb


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Re: Developer Turned Black [Was: Sad state of Photo Stores]

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Cassino"
Subject: Re: Developer Turned Black [Was: Sad state of Photo Stores]



> Rodinal seems to keep forever, and HC110 goes from
> lager yellow to ale tan, but still seems to hold up
> well, As my developing volumes drop, I've switched to
> those two.

I was given a bottle of HC110 that came from an old timer's studio darkroom 
that got shut down when the owner passed away. I surmise that the guy forgot 
he had it, as the price tag on it indicated it was at least 15 years old 
when I got it, and it was quite brown.
I decided to test it for laughs, and ended up using it.

William Robb 


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Davis" 
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


> Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition.
> If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score'
> against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice.

I think we are on the same side of the fence on this one, Davis.

William Robb

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Bob W" 
Subject: RE: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


>>  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> 
> You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind
> Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and
> to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the
> stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow?
> Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not
> know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as
> melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the
> string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. 

Bob, that was beautiful.

William Robb

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" 
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"



> 
> Overall I find people to be too easily impressed.

I find people too reluctant to label crap as what it is.

William Robb

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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "graywolf"
Subject: Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times


>
>
> If the Iwo Jima photo was taken in a studio in California is it an any 
> less
> powerful image? Would it have less meaning to a people at war? It is easy 
> to sit
> in our comfortable living rooms decades later and talk about it as if it 
> were
> some kind of conspiracy, but it was a powerful wartime propaganda photo
> regardless of when and where and how it was taken.

We should compare notes to see how many people called you out for listing 
that photo as propoganda compared to me.

William Robb 


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Totally useful app for external hard drive (was Re: New computer)

[Debra Wilborn]

Once you have your hard drive running in the external
enclosure, load the suite from www.portableapps.com on
it.  It's a tiny, open source operating system that
will run on any Mac or Windows PC from the external
drive without messing with the host computer.  And
there's a standalone version of the GIMP! (like
photoshop but free and open source.)  I've been using
PortableApps for a few months now and have no
complaints.

Oh and www.pricewatch.com has cheap hard drives and
enclosures for regular PC drives and notebook drives. 
I got a USB enclosure for less than $20 and stuck my
old drive in there that I took out when I upgraded. 
The hard drive is more than seven years old and still going.


   

Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Kenneth Waller]

> It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee!
> :-)

My point is a lot more people are getting to see my images because of the 
gallery.

Kenneth Waller
http://tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


> >From: "Kenneth Waller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery & several into
>>the Premiere Gallery.
>>I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people & the 
>>response
>>I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall
>>manner in which the images are presented.
>
> It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee!
> :-)  However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I 
> don't
> like and they'd love them just as much.  Most non-serious photographers 
> are
> not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye.
>
> Overall I find people to be too easily impressed.
>
>>
>>I couldn't have done that kind of presentat
>
> ion without having my own web
>>site with its attending costs & maintenance.
>>
>>And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on.
>>I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would
>>never think of submitting.  The images I saw posted in the gallery in the
>>beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now.
>>
>
> That's what I'd expect.
>
> Tom C.
>
>
>
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Doug Franklin]

Tom C wrote:

> 1.  I don't want to think my images are good just because I pressed the 
> shutter or because I may have a personal attachment to the subject.
> 2.  On the other hand, just because a preponderance of people seeing the 
> image say they like it, does not make it a good or successful image.  Those 
> people could be responding that way because they really like me, or they 
> could be reacting that way because they like the subject matter.  There's a 
> fair chance that most people viewing the image couldn't really tell you why 
> they like.
> 3. Or, I may have a good image that just doesn't strike a chord with most 
> people.

If you're talking about image displayed on the PDML, I'd guess that at
least some of it is the "self selection" effect.  Basically, people who
think well of the image are far more likely to post about it.

-- 
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Tom C]

"... especially kind people".

Point taken and agreed.  That's one of the problems I constantly battle 
against.  I like kind people.

:-)

1.  I don't want to think my images are good just because I pressed the 
shutter or because I may have a personal attachment to the subject.
2.  On the other hand, just because a preponderance of people seeing the 
image say they like it, does not make it a good or successful image.  Those 
people could be responding that way because they really like me, or they 
could be reacting that way because they like the subject matter.  There's a 
fair chance that most people viewing the image couldn't really tell you why 
they like.
3. Or, I may have a good image that just doesn't strike a chord with most 
people.

That's why I've ranted a little bit in the past on this.  Not every image 
displayed is worthy of praise, yet it seems almost invariably the image is 
praised... maybe it's kindness, maybe as a mistaken way of encouraging the 
photographer to keep trying, I don't know.

Could be I'm overanalyzing. :-)


Tom C.


>From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 20:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
>
>..especially kind people.
>
>Jack
>--- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > >From: "Kenneth Waller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery & several
> > into
> > >the Premiere Gallery.
> > >I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people & the
> > response
> > >I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the
> > overall
> > >manner in which the images are presented.
> >
> > It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them.
> > Yippee!
> > :-)  However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images
> > I don't
> > like and they'd love them just as much.  Most non-serious
> > photographers are
> > not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye.
> >
> > Overall I find people to be too easily impressed.
> >
> > >
> > >I couldn't have done that kind of presentat
> >
> > ion without having my own web
> > >site with its attending costs & maintenance.
> > >
> > >And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on.
> > >I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I
> > would
> > >never think of submitting.  The images I saw posted in the gallery
> > in the
> > >beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now.
> > >
> >
> > That's what I'd expect.
> >
> > Tom C.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
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> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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>
>
>
>
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Re: Question about FA 28-105 f/4-5.6 IF, Tamron vs. Pentax

[Charles Robinson]

On Sep 27, 2007, at 20:54, Joseph Tainter wrote:
> Pentax rebranded a 28-105 from Tamron. It was reportedly inferior  
> to the
> (then current) FA Power Zoom 28-105 F4-5.6. That one was a lovely zoom
> lens.

I had one of those, and it completely sucked.  Bad contrast, bad  
sharpness, yuck.

I was bummed when I read how well-respected they were, because I knew  
that I had a dud version.  :-(

It broke later and now it's in the trash.

  -Charles

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Jack Davis]

..especially kind people.

Jack
--- Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >From: "Kenneth Waller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery & several
> into
> >the Premiere Gallery.
> >I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people & the
> response
> >I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the
> overall
> >manner in which the images are presented.
> 
> It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them.
> Yippee! 
> :-)  However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images
> I don't 
> like and they'd love them just as much.  Most non-serious
> photographers are 
> not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye.
> 
> Overall I find people to be too easily impressed.
> 
> >
> >I couldn't have done that kind of presentat
> 
> ion without having my own web
> >site with its attending costs & maintenance.
> >
> >And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on.
> >I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I
> would
> >never think of submitting.  The images I saw posted in the gallery
> in the
> >beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now.
> >
> 
> That's what I'd expect.
> 
> Tom C.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Brian Walters]

I agree with Mark on this.

For all of its faults, the Pentax Gallery has given my photography a bit more 
focus (pun not intended).  I'm not necessarily taking photos specifically aimed 
at being accepted (because most aren't) but I find I'm taking more care about 
composition and lighting and looking for other possibilities in a subject that 
I may have not noticed previously.  

And I'm a bit more enthusiastic about my photography - and that has to be a 
good thing...



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://members.westnet.com.au/brianwal/SL/


Quoting Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest
> because, 
> unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target 
> (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with
> their 
> choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to
> achieve 
> what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. 
>

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Re: Question about FA 28-105 f/4-5.6 IF, Tamron vs. Pentax

[David Savage]

At 09:54 AM 28/09/2007, Joseph Tainter wrote:
>Pentax rebranded a 28-105 from Tamron. It was reportedly inferior to the
>(then current) FA Power Zoom 28-105 F4-5.6. That one was a lovely zoom
>lens. If you can find a used one of those, I would get it.

I ditto the above.

IMO it is a great lens & optically superior to any of the DA lenses I have.

It's also considerably heavier :-)

Cheers,

Dave 


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using a Pentax 17mm fish eye on 4/3 System and Pentax DSLR

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I've been using a friend's Pentax 17mm Fish Eye for the past week or  
so. It's a damn good performer, and I find it a near perfect match  
for the L1 body (fitted with an adapter of course). Funny, I like it  
even more than the rectilinear Nikon 20mm lens I was using on the L1  
before this... !

Did a few comparison photos to check out the field of view in  
comparison to rectilinear lenses. The Panny L1 is on the left,  
showing the 14-50mm @ 14mm setting and the 17 FE, then the Pentax  
K10D is on the right showing the DA14, K17FE, and DA21.

   http://homepage.mac.com/godders/K17FE-FOV/

You can see how much more "bendy" the rendering seems on the Pentax  
body, with its wider format proportion and slightly larger sensor.

enjoy
Godfrey

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Re: Thinking of AF280T flash

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sep 27, 2007, at 3:35 PM, Cotty wrote:

> On 27/09/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>> All way too complicated. Gimme a manual flash and a flash meter. ;-)
>
> I absolutely LOATHE flash. But it also can produce some wonderful
> results. So I let the flash do all the work. Top of the range Canon
> 580EX that is a computer with a light tube bolted on. Unbelievably  
> good
> and I never think twice. Indoors, camera to full manual: aperture to
> about f8, shutter speed to 1/250th (max normal sync) and bouncing the
> flash off ceilings gives beautiful results. Or ext night, direct  
> with an
> omnibounce thingy, or daylight fill using full auto. Can't fault it.
> Hate using it, but can't fault it.

I had the 420EX when I had my Canon gear. It did exactly the same,  
although was, of course, smaller, less powerful. I also loathe flash  
for general purpose photography ... I use it for table top work ...  
or when at a party doing snapshots like last evening. It's just a tool.

My table top setup is so consistent that I just set up the flash, the  
subject, set the aperture and shoot. I rarely even have to check the  
histogram. ;-)

Godfrey


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Re: Question about FA 28-105 f/4-5.6 IF, Tamron vs. Pentax

[Joseph Tainter]

I had the SMC-P version of this lens on my K10D when it decided it would 
rather bounce off the concrete floor than stay in my hand.  I replaced 
it with the Tamron version (got a good price on it, and couldn't find 
the SMC-P variant anywhere).  But I am finding (based on my first few 
test shots) that the Tamron version is much, much less sharp than the 
Pentax. They appear identical, and claimed by many to be the same lens 
optically.

-

Pentax rebranded a 28-105 from Tamron. It was reportedly inferior to the 
(then current) FA Power Zoom 28-105 F4-5.6. That one was a lovely zoom 
lens. If you can find a used one of those, I would get it. But they seem 
to have gotten rarer in the used market. OTOH, I believe it is still 
available new, but currently backordered. Try here:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40725-USA/Pentax_27667_Zoom_Wide_Angle_SMCP_FA.html

Otherwise, the current FA 28-105 (F3.2 to something) is (I believe) 
still available (but also backordered). Many people like it, although it 
is not as good as the FA 24-90. But it is certainly a bargain, and 
probably superior to both the older Tamron and the Pentax version of the 
Tamron.

Joe

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[David Savage]

On 9/28/07, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> crap-shoot.

Going off topic.

This phrase always brings to mind Mambo t-shirts & the artwork of Reg Mombassa.

Carry on.

Cheers,

Dave (I don't think non-Aussies will get the connection)

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Re: Developer Turned Black [Was: Sad state of Photo Stores]

[Mark Cassino]

I keep half gallon, 1 quart, and 1 pint bottles on
hand. You can juggle things around so that only one of
the pint bottles is partially full. If that turns,
it's a small loss.

Tried the marble thing - it was a PITA.

Rodinal seems to keep forever, and HC110 goes from
lager yellow to ale tan, but still seems to hold up
well, As my developing volumes drop, I've switched to
those two.

FWIW - oxidized developer can produce some interesting
results. I got some really nice results using
cola-colored Dektol and Plus-X. Not the thing for
folks concerned with predictability, consistency, and
other such hobgoblins.

- MCC


--- Bob Blakely <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It would be nice if the bottles had bladders so that
> they could be capped 
> half used without any air to oxidize the contents.
> 
> Regards,
> Bob...
>

> "Life isn't like a box of chocolates . .
> it's more like a jar of jalapenos.
> What you do today, might burn your butt tomorrow."
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
> Well, chemistry is available, mostly for students,
> but not what I was
> looking for. I hate to throw away half used bottles
> of developer because
> they've turned black.
> 
> 
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Photo Books:
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Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell. 
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Tom C]

>From: "Kenneth Waller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery & several into
>the Premiere Gallery.
>I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people & the response
>I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall
>manner in which the images are presented.

It's not bad, but most people love my photos when I show to them. Yippee! 
:-)  However, I'm pretty sure I could show them my rejects or images I don't 
like and they'd love them just as much.  Most non-serious photographers are 
not looking at an image or a site with a critical eye.

Overall I find people to be too easily impressed.

>
>I couldn't have done that kind of presentat

ion without having my own web
>site with its attending costs & maintenance.
>
>And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on.
>I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would
>never think of submitting.  The images I saw posted in the gallery in the
>beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now.
>

That's what I'd expect.

Tom C.



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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Kenneth Waller]

>...after hearing of all the various problems others are having, I doubt if 
>I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't written a bio).

I've got a fair number of images accepted into the Gallery & several into 
the Premiere Gallery.
I've handed out my Pentax gallery address to a lot of people & the response 
I get back from most of them is that are really impressed with the overall 
manner in which the images are presented.

I couldn't have done that kind of presentation without having my own web 
site with its attending costs & maintenance.

And yes, I'm getting more rejections now than early on.
I can also say that I see a lot of images up for voting now that I would 
never think of submitting.  The images I saw posted in the gallery in the 
beginning are much better than what I see in the voting section now.

my $.02 worth.

Kenneth Waller
http://tinyurl.com/272u2f


- Original Message - 
From: "John Francis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2007 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


>
>
> Gee thanks.  Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt?
>
> Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'?
>Do you know why?
>
>
> As far as the Pentax Gallery goes - I didn't submit originally
> for a couple of reasons; my first attempt didn't work (because
> I was trying to submit a scanned image, and there was a bug in
> their validation code), and I never got round to writing a bio.
>
> Now, after hearing of all the various problems others are having,
> I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't
> written a bio).
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:07:05PM +0100, Bob W wrote:
>> >  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
>>
>> You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind
>> Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and
>> to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the
>> stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow?
>> Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not
>> know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as
>> melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the
>> string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one.
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>> --
>>  Bob
>>
>>
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> > Behalf Of frank theriault
>> > Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29
>> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> > Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
>> >
>> > On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > > >Question: how subjective is this standard?
>> > >
>> > > Same as all competitions: Very.
>> > >
>> > > Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest
>> because,
>> > > unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target
>> > > (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not
>> > agree with their
>> > > choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to
>> achieve
>> > > what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer.
>> > >
>> > > I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more
>> > > demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating
>> > things that
>> > > please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
>> >
>> > I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
>> > the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
>> >
>> > There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the "accepted
>> > artists' voting":  How many votes are required to be accepted or
>> > rejected?  What percentage of "yes" votes is required for
>> acceptance?
>> >  and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first
>> > "screening" can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel.  We don't
>> > know who those people are, and what they're looking for.
>> >
>> > It's all very "closed door", which to me makes it something of a
>> > crap-shoot.  I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them
>> > all rejected makes me a better photographer.
>> >
>> > It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I
>> > want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me.  Some may
>> find
>> > this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't.
>> >
>> > I mean, hey, no hard feelings.  Pentax can run this thing any way
>> they
>> > want;  it's their contest.  However, if this is the way they choose
>> to
>> > run it, my choice is to not participate.
>> >
>> > cheers,
>> > frank
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -- 
>> > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
>> >
>> > -- 
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>> > PDML@pdml.net
>> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly
>> > above and follow the directions.
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Kenneth Waller]

>Subjective is one thing.  Variably subjective is irritating at best.

Every photo contest I've ever entered had variable subjectivity 

Kenneth Waller
http://tinyurl.com/272u2f

- Original Message - 
From: "Scott Loveless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


> frank theriault wrote:
>> I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
>> the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
>>
> And it's a moving target, to boot.  You never know who may be voting on
> your photo at any given time.  Subjective is one thing.  Variably
> subjective is irritating at best.
>
> -- 
> Scott Loveless
> http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/
>
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RE: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Jack Davis]

Mercy that's deep.

Jack
--- Bob W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> 
> You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind
> Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and
> to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the
> stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow?
> Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must
> not
> know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as
> melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the
> string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. 
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> --
>  Bob
>  
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of frank theriault
> > Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> > 
> > On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > >Question: how subjective is this standard?
> > >
> > > Same as all competitions: Very.
> > >
> > > Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest
> because,
> > > unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target
> > > (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not 
> > agree with their
> > > choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to
> achieve
> > > what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer.
> > >
> > > I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more
> > > demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating 
> > things that
> > > please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> > 
> > I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know
> what
> > the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> > 
> > There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the "accepted
> > artists' voting":  How many votes are required to be accepted or
> > rejected?  What percentage of "yes" votes is required for
> acceptance?
> >  and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the
> first
> > "screening" can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel.  We don't
> > know who those people are, and what they're looking for.
> > 
> > It's all very "closed door", which to me makes it something of a
> > crap-shoot.  I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having
> them
> > all rejected makes me a better photographer.
> > 
> > It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I
> > want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me.  Some may
> find
> > this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't.
> > 
> > I mean, hey, no hard feelings.  Pentax can run this thing any way
> they
> > want;  it's their contest.  However, if this is the way they choose
> to
> > run it, my choice is to not participate.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > frank
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
> > 
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly 
> > above and follow the directions.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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Check out the hottest 2008 models today at Yahoo! Autos.
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Re: butts

[John Francis]

On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 03:43:38PM -0700, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
> On Sep 27, 2007, at 3:09 PM, John Francis wrote:
> 
> > Gee thanks.  Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt?
> >
> > Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'?
> > Do you know why?
> 
> I knew that they were, but I still don't know why.
> 
> Godfrey

It was a sort of trick question.   There's a fairly widespread
faux etymology that claims it's derived from using the end of
wine barrels as targets, but the OED gives no credence to this.



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Re: Thinking of AF280T flash

[Cotty]

On 27/09/07, Godfrey DiGiorgi, discombobulated, unleashed:

>All way too complicated. Gimme a manual flash and a flash meter. ;-)

I absolutely LOATHE flash. But it also can produce some wonderful
results. So I let the flash do all the work. Top of the range Canon
580EX that is a computer with a light tube bolted on. Unbelievably good
and I never think twice. Indoors, camera to full manual: aperture to
about f8, shutter speed to 1/250th (max normal sync) and bouncing the
flash off ceilings gives beautiful results. Or ext night, direct with an
omnibounce thingy, or daylight fill using full auto. Can't fault it.
Hate using it, but can't fault it.

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Re: butts

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sep 27, 2007, at 3:09 PM, John Francis wrote:

> Gee thanks.  Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt?
>
> Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'?
> Do you know why?

I knew that they were, but I still don't know why.

Godfrey

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Re: Thinking of AF280T flash

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sep 27, 2007, at 12:10 PM, Axel Belinfante wrote:

>> All way too complicated. Gimme a manual flash and a flash meter. ;-)
>
> I really, really, really like the aperrant simplicity of ttl flash -
> the protocol is dead simple -- start, stop -- and all funky  
> computations/
> settings  can happen in the camera, flash needs to know nothing.

With a digital camera, all you do is guess, make a test shot, and  
adjust settings to suit. No computations involved.

I don't use any film cameras with flash anymore...

Godfrey

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Re: Camera Leather

[Rebekah]

cool, but I didn't see any purple flame designs.  Count me out. ;)

rg2

On 9/27/07, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On topic for a change!
>
> Interesting site - have a look:
>
> 
>
> --
>
>
> Cheers,
>  Cotty
>
>
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
>
>
>
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> the directions.
>


-- 
"the subject of a photograph is far less important than its composition"

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Re: Camera Leather

[Scott Loveless]

Cotty wrote:
> On topic for a change!
> 
> Interesting site - have a look:
> 
> 
> 
Ugh.  I really like their stuff.  And so does Cesar, apparently.  Since 
getting the 645 I thought it would look rather dashing in some new 
clothes, like the Hassy 501 cameras in the special edition colors that 
were available a few years ago.  Alas, cameraleather doesn't offer skins 
for the 645, nor do they offer anything in "skittle yellow".  I wonder, 
if I sent my camera to him.nah.

-- 
Scott Loveless
http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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Re: Travel Lenses

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

I agree with you about the FA20-35: it effectively replaced my A24,  
A28 and A35 lenses, as well as the DA16-45.

The 21 and 43 Limiteds go beyond it, however. For the situation you  
mention, I would take the Panasonic L1 with its Leica 14-50/2.8-3.5  
lens now. That lens is just about on par with the quality of the  
Limiteds, albeit a bit bulkier. Heresy, eh? ;-)

Godfrey



On Sep 27, 2007, at 12:13 PM, Steve Desjardins wrote:

> A man after my own heart.
>
> As much as I am a fan of primes, on this trip my wife and I were with
> 10 college students and my job was not to take pictures.  The zoom is
> just more effective as a photographic tool and, honestly, I find  the
> results very acceptable.  I do note, however, that the FA 20-35 is the
> best zoom I've ever had.
>
>> If forced to take just one lens, I'd fit the FA43 on the camera and
>> hide the DA21 in my pocket. ;-)
>

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Cotty]

On 27/09/07, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
>the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
>
>There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the "accepted
>artists' voting":  How many votes are required to be accepted or
>rejected?  What percentage of "yes" votes is required for acceptance?
> and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first
>"screening" can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel.  We don't
>know who those people are, and what they're looking for.
>
>It's all very "closed door", which to me makes it something of a
>crap-shoot.  I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them
>all rejected makes me a better photographer.
>
>It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I
>want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me.  Some may find
>this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't.
>
>I mean, hey, no hard feelings.  Pentax can run this thing any way they
>want;  it's their contest.  However, if this is the way they choose to
>run it, my choice is to not participate.

Hey Frank, let's start our own gallery pages :-

Avante-garde??? You ain't seen nothin yet baby!!

-- 


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  Cotty


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Cotty]

On 27/09/07, Mark Roberts, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, 
>unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target 
>(acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their 
>choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve 
>what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. 
>
>I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more 
>demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that 
>please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Points taken!

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  Cotty


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[John Francis]

Gee thanks.  Now how do I get this arrow out of my butt?

Ob.Trivia - did you know that archery targets are called 'butts'?
Do you know why?


As far as the Pentax Gallery goes - I didn't submit originally
for a couple of reasons; my first attempt didn't work (because
I was trying to submit a scanned image, and there was a bug in
their validation code), and I never got round to writing a bio.

Now, after hearing of all the various problems others are having,
I doubt if I'll bother to submit anything (and I *still* haven't
written a bio).


On Thu, Sep 27, 2007 at 10:07:05PM +0100, Bob W wrote:
> >  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> 
> You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind
> Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and
> to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the
> stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow?
> Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not
> know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as
> melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the
> string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. 
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> --
>  Bob
>  
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> > Behalf Of frank theriault
> > Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> > 
> > On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > >Question: how subjective is this standard?
> > >
> > > Same as all competitions: Very.
> > >
> > > Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest
> because,
> > > unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target
> > > (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not 
> > agree with their
> > > choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to
> achieve
> > > what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer.
> > >
> > > I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more
> > > demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating 
> > things that
> > > please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> > 
> > I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
> > the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> > 
> > There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the "accepted
> > artists' voting":  How many votes are required to be accepted or
> > rejected?  What percentage of "yes" votes is required for
> acceptance?
> >  and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first
> > "screening" can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel.  We don't
> > know who those people are, and what they're looking for.
> > 
> > It's all very "closed door", which to me makes it something of a
> > crap-shoot.  I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them
> > all rejected makes me a better photographer.
> > 
> > It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I
> > want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me.  Some may
> find
> > this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't.
> > 
> > I mean, hey, no hard feelings.  Pentax can run this thing any way
> they
> > want;  it's their contest.  However, if this is the way they choose
> to
> > run it, my choice is to not participate.
> > 
> > cheers,
> > frank
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
> > 
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly 
> > above and follow the directions.
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: RE: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Mark Roberts]

Bob W wrote:

>>  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
>
>You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind
>Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and
>to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the
>stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow?
>Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not
>know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as
>melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the
>string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. 
>
>Hope that helps.

That's a funny reply and it's essentially correct. Any kind of artistic 
endeavor is just like real life: There's no definite target, no 
step-by-step instructions that will guarantee success.


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Camera Leather

[Cotty]

On topic for a change!

Interesting site - have a look:



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  Cotty


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Re: Not PESO: Fish-eye falcon

[frank theriault]

On 9/26/07, Margus Männik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
> it's shot with Sony Alpha camera and Sony 16mm lens last weekend.
> Writing a book about Alpha system and therefore haven't had much time to
> shoot with Pentax gear last times... OTOH - I have had almost all Sony
> lenses to play with last couple of weeks - from 16mm fisheye to 300mm
> tele. I have to admit that some of 'em are quite good (oh holy P,
> forgive me my sins... etc) :)))
>
> http://www.eol.ee/~margus/misc/ffalcon.jpg
>
> BR, Margus

Excellent shot!

cheers,
frank

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[frank theriault]

On 9/27/07, graywolf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Pooka

Just like Harvey...

:-)

cheers,
frank

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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RE: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Tom C]

USE THE FORCE, FRANK.



Tom C.

>From: "Bob W" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: "'Pentax-Discuss Mail List'" 
>Subject: RE: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 22:07:05 +0100
>
> >  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
>
>You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind
>Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and
>to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the
>stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow?
>Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not
>know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as
>melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the
>string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one.
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>--
>  Bob
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of frank theriault
> > Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29
> > To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> >
> > On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > >Question: how subjective is this standard?
> > >
> > > Same as all competitions: Very.
> > >
> > > Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest
>because,
> > > unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target
> > > (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not
> > agree with their
> > > choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to
>achieve
> > > what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer.
> > >
> > > I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more
> > > demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating
> > things that
> > > please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> >
> > I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
> > the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> >
> > There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the "accepted
> > artists' voting":  How many votes are required to be accepted or
> > rejected?  What percentage of "yes" votes is required for
>acceptance?
> >  and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first
> > "screening" can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel.  We don't
> > know who those people are, and what they're looking for.
> >
> > It's all very "closed door", which to me makes it something of a
> > crap-shoot.  I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them
> > all rejected makes me a better photographer.
> >
> > It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I
> > want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me.  Some may
>find
> > this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't.
> >
> > I mean, hey, no hard feelings.  Pentax can run this thing any way
>they
> > want;  it's their contest.  However, if this is the way they choose
>to
> > run it, my choice is to not participate.
> >
> > cheers,
> > frank
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
> >
> > --
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly
> > above and follow the directions.
> >
> >
>
>
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RE: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Bob W]

>  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?

You must follow the Way Of The Blind Archer, grasshopper. The Blind
Archer does not see the target. He allows the target to see him, and
to guide the arrow into his heart, as the heron's beak enters the
stream. For are they not one, the archer, the target and the arrow?
Are they not avatars of each of us, and we of them? Your hand must not
know that it has released the bowstring, it must slip from you as
melting snow slips from the bamboo leaf. Then surely the bow, the
string, the arrow, the archer and the target are one. 

Hope that helps.

--
 Bob
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of frank theriault
> Sent: 27 September 2007 21:29
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> 
> On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > >Question: how subjective is this standard?
> >
> > Same as all competitions: Very.
> >
> > Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest
because,
> > unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target
> > (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not 
> agree with their
> > choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to
achieve
> > what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer.
> >
> > I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more
> > demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating 
> things that
> > please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
> the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> 
> There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the "accepted
> artists' voting":  How many votes are required to be accepted or
> rejected?  What percentage of "yes" votes is required for
acceptance?
>  and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first
> "screening" can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel.  We don't
> know who those people are, and what they're looking for.
> 
> It's all very "closed door", which to me makes it something of a
> crap-shoot.  I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them
> all rejected makes me a better photographer.
> 
> It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I
> want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me.  Some may
find
> this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't.
> 
> I mean, hey, no hard feelings.  Pentax can run this thing any way
they
> want;  it's their contest.  However, if this is the way they choose
to
> run it, my choice is to not participate.
> 
> cheers,
> frank
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
> 
> -- 
> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
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Re: Organizational Software

[graywolf]

That is always the problem with databases. BTW, Adobe bridge can attach all 
kinds of info and catagories to your photos, but it does still have the problem 
that you have to enter the info and select the catagories.

Boris Liberman wrote:
> I think LightRoom can do most if not all that you indicated, Bruce. 
> However the hmmm process of giving program necessary data to perform 
> organization has to be done by human and that's a huge task.
> 
> Boris
> 
> 
> 
> Bruce Dayton wrote:
>> My wife is getting serious about trying to organize all our photos.  I
>> have most of them scanned and the past several years have all been
>> digital.  So on the plus side, we can work in one medium for the
>> moment.
>>
>> She would like to organize images by child, by event, by date, etc.
>> Then be able to access the images for some type of use - printing,
>> making galleries, making scrapbooks electronically, etc.  So there
>> would need to be other programs to "import" an image and she would
>> need to be able to find it.
>>
>> So if the organization was in a proprietary file or something,
>> external programs may not be able to deal with it.  That would make
>> the organizing less useful.
>>
>> So once organized, she might say, "I want to make a gallery of the
>> highlights of the past year."  So whatever software we use to make
>> online galleries would be loaded and she would want to find all the
>> files for the past year and browse through and choose some for the
>> gallery.  Or she might say "I want prints of the last ice skating
>> competition."  She would need to be able to find the photos and put
>> them on disk or some directory for uploading or some such.
>>
>> We are using Windows XP - so the organizing software would need to
>> work with it.  Any ideas would be helpful.
>>
> 
> 

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[graywolf]

Pooka

Gonz wrote:
> Oops that should have been family "Leporidae".  I'm not sure whether
> Frank is a Rabbit or a Hare.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/26/07, Gonz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Frank, didn't you read the fine print?  In Title 9, section 4,
>> paragraph 110, Item b) : "No work shall be accepted from the class
>> Lepus and all its associated species and subspecies."
>>
>>
>> =:)
>>
>>
>> On 9/26/07, frank theriault <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Copy of e-mail recently sent to The Pentax Gallery:
>>>
>>> "Sirs/Mesdames,
>>>
>>> I may be "an accepted artist of the PENTAX Photo Gallery", however, my
>>> first 12 photos have been rejected.  As of the date of this e-mail,
>>> there are three pending.
>>>
>>> It is obvious that somewhere along the selection process, someone or
>>> some group feels that my photos are not up to the Pentax Photo Gallery
>>> standards.
>>>
>>> Accordingly, I will be deleting the three photos still pending.
>>> Please feel free remove me from your list of "accepted artists".
>>>
>>> Thank you for the opportunity to submit my photos.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> frank theriault"
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>> frank
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
>>>
>>> --
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>>> follow the directions.
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Tom C]

>Subjective is one thing.  Variably subjective is irritating at best.
>
>--
>Scott Loveless
>http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/
>

... said the married man...

Tom C.



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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Scott Loveless]

frank theriault wrote:
> I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
> the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?
> 
And it's a moving target, to boot.  You never know who may be voting on 
your photo at any given time.  Subjective is one thing.  Variably 
subjective is irritating at best.

-- 
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http://www.twosixteen.com/fivetoedsloth/

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Re: PESO ... A Rose by Any Other Name...

[Charles Robinson]

On Sep 27, 2007, at 14:51, Mark Roberts wrote:

> Tom C wrote:
>
>> Outside a Florist's shop.
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6468680
>
> Going all "Godfrey" on us, eh?
> Nice work.
>

Was my first thought too.

Then I wondered why the photo was sideways until I realized it was  
probably a brick sidewalk (the petals are unlikely to be glued to a  
wall!).

Pretty, though!

  -Charles

--
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Minneapolis, MN
http://charles.robinsontwins.org



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Re: Developer Turned Black [Was: Sad state of Photo Stores]

[graywolf]

That was not a problem until you go near the bottom of the bottle, then you 
just 
used a finger to partially block the mouth. Marbles were the standard thing 
back 
in the 1950's.


Bob Blakely wrote:
> Ingenious, but what do you do about the marbles trying to run out with the 
> developer when you pour it?
> 
> Regards,
> Bob...
> 
> "Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection."
>   -Jean Luc Godard
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Scott Loveless" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 
> 
>> Marbles.
>>
>> P. J. Alling wrote:
>>> Falcon air evac bottles.
>>>
>>> 1/2 gallon
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2kctld
>>> full gallon
>>> http://tinyurl.com/399yud
>>>
>>> Bob Blakely wrote:
 It would be nice if the bottles had bladders so that they could be 
 capped
 half used without any air to oxidize the contents.

 Regards,
 Bob...
 
 "Life isn't like a box of chocolates . .
 it's more like a jar of jalapenos.
 What you do today, might burn your butt tomorrow."

 - Original Message - 
 From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


 Well, chemistry is available, mostly for students, but not what I was
 looking for. I hate to throw away half used bottles of developer because
 they've turned black.
> 
> 

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Re: Developer Turned Black [Was: Sad state of Photo Stores]

[graywolf]

Har!!!

Scott Loveless wrote:
> Marbles.
> 
> P. J. Alling wrote:
>> Falcon air evac bottles.
>>
>> 1/2 gallon
>> http://tinyurl.com/2kctld
>> full gallon
>> http://tinyurl.com/399yud
>>
>> Bob Blakely wrote:
>>> It would be nice if the bottles had bladders so that they could be capped 
>>> half used without any air to oxidize the contents.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Bob...
>>> 
>>> "Life isn't like a box of chocolates . .
>>> it's more like a jar of jalapenos.
>>> What you do today, might burn your butt tomorrow."
>>>
>>> - Original Message - 
>>> From: "P. J. Alling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, chemistry is available, mostly for students, but not what I was
>>> looking for. I hate to throw away half used bottles of developer because
>>> they've turned black.
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>
> 
> 

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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[graywolf]

They were most likely spent solid round shot, sort of like cast iron bowling
balls. They hit the ground and then roll and bounce a long way until the come to
a stop. They were designed to do that as the bouncing balls played havoc with
massed troops. So Tom is correct in thinking many would wind up in a low point
like that road, although I would think that that road was a long way beyond
their impact point and they simply rolled into that cut. There is nothing in the
photos to give size relationships but they are most likely 8, 12, or 16 pound
balls as that was what most light field artillery was in those days, that road
is very narrow because those balls are smaller than most folks would think.


Tom C wrote:

> 
> To your question... Where then are the craters from the canon balls that 
> must have landed *off* the road, in the likely softer soil?
> 
> I would guess they don't really weigh THAT much and were moving at a 
> relatively low velocity.
> 
> Another alternate explanation could possibly be that the road, being 
> relatively high, slightly sloped and comparatively smooth (less friction), 
> allowed the canon balls to roll to the low point when they hit the road. An 
> object in motion tends to stay in motion.  Since they were likely all shot 
> from the same direction and I would guess, at a relatively oblique angle, 
> their momentum might be such to propel them off the road.
> 
> Still thinking. :-)
> 
> Tom C.
> 
> 
>> From: "Kenneth Waller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
>> Subject: Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story -  NY Times
>> Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 23:50:24 -0400
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> BTW, if the balls actually landed on the road & weren't placed there, where
>> are the craters?
>>
>> Kenneth Waller
>> http://tinyurl.com/272u2f
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "graywolf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>> Subject: Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times
>>
>>
>>> Why is it so interesting? I see nothing that makes any difference to
>>> anyone but
>>> a few folks who want to be taken for pundits. The lighting shows that 
>> the
>>> sun
>>> was more overhead in the second photo, but if the photographer was into
>>> faking
>>> his photos, he could well have lied about the time he took them. It
>>> reminds me
>>> of the title to one of Shakespeare's plays, "Much ado about nothing".
>>>
>>>
> Subject: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2oczre
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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[mike wilson]

Cotty wrote:

> On 27/09/07, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
> 
>>(I really shouldn't have written that.  Now Cotty will have the horn again.)
> 
> 
> Those sentences give me the horn.
> 
> (Might get my Derek and Clive DVD out tonight ;-)
> 
Lobster for tea.


Or maybe not.

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Re: PESO ... A Rose by Any Other Name...

[frank theriault]

On 9/27/07, Tom C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Outside a Florist's shop.
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6468680
>
> Tom C.

Love it!

cheers,
frank

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[frank theriault]

On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> >Question: how subjective is this standard?
>
> Same as all competitions: Very.
>
> Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because,
> unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target
> (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their
> choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve
> what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer.
>
> I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more
> demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that
> please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I think my problem with the Pentax Gallery is that I don't know what
the standard is.  How can I aim for a target if I can't see it?

There's no explanation as to the criteria to get past the "accepted
artists' voting":  How many votes are required to be accepted or
rejected?  What percentage of "yes" votes is required for acceptance?
 and even then, it states clearly that those that get past the first
"screening" can be rejected outright by the Pentax Panel.  We don't
know who those people are, and what they're looking for.

It's all very "closed door", which to me makes it something of a
crap-shoot.  I'm not sure how submitting many photos and having them
all rejected makes me a better photographer.

It rather just leaves me scratching my head, and thinking that if I
want feedback or reaction, this isn't the place for me.  Some may find
this sort of exercise very valuable, but I don't.

I mean, hey, no hard feelings.  Pentax can run this thing any way they
want;  it's their contest.  However, if this is the way they choose to
run it, my choice is to not participate.

cheers,
frank



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Re: PESO ... A Rose by Any Other Name...

[Rebekah]

Lovely :o)

rg2

On 9/27/07, Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tom C wrote:
>
> >Outside a Florist's shop.
> >
> >http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6468680
>
> Going all "Godfrey" on us, eh?
> Nice work.
>
>
>
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-- 
"the subject of a photograph is far less important than its composition"

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Jack Davis]

You're right, it isn't. You might look at it from the standpoint of a
vocal 'artist' who looks for applause when she stops singing.
Approval can be intoxicating.

Jack
--- Mark Roberts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Cotty wrote:
> 
> >On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:
> >
> >>Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't 
> >>mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the 
> >>competition are such that you are competing against a standard.
> >
> >Question: how subjective is this standard?
> 
> Same as all competitions: Very.
> 
> Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, 
> unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target 
> (acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with
> their 
> choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve 
> what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. 
> 
> I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more 
> demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that
> 
> please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Tom C]

I agree.  If acceptance is left purely to a judging panel, then we can 
expect the regular subjectivity.  If it's based on a general vote of others, 
then it's also suspect, as the general public doesn't know hooey about good 
photography.

I'd like to know the qualifications of the judges, myself.  It is totally 
possible photos are being judged by people with no other particular 
qualifications than that they work for Pentax, which is totally within their 
bailiwick, just not reassuring.

If the gallery is designed to be a high-quality gallery, then all images 
should clearly be outstanding.  If it's not designed to be that, then the 
result will be something less. (Stating the obvious).

Tom C.


>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
>Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
>Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 19:45:35 +
>
>It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For 
>the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the 
>same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was 
>submitting between five and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew 
>the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not a mine vs. yours 
>competition. At least that's what I think. And in the end, none of it 
>matters a hoot:-).
>Paul
>  -- Original message --
>From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition.
> > If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score'
> > against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice.
> >
> > Jack
> > --- William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: "Jack Davis"
> > > Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> > >
> > >
> > > > No way it could be stated any better, Frank.
> > > > Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to
> > > > imagine. Could be they consider "accepted artist" voting a handy
> > > > explanation..if needed.
> > > > When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes.
> > > >
> > >
> > > >> 
> > > >> > Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly
> > > pointless.
> > > >> 
> > > >>
> > > >> I agree 100%!
> > > >>
> > > >> Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition.
> > > I
> > > >> thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they
> > > were
> > > >> in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos.  I
> > > didn't
> > > >> see it as "grading" or "rating" photos, merely "accepting".
> > > >>
> > > >> I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most.  I didn't
> > > >> understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is.  I know
> > > my
> > > >> photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really
> > > they
> > > >> don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I
> > > have
> > > >> to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal,
> > > >> ordinary
> > > >> photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot.  It may be
> > > >> that
> > > >> these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer
> > > >> voters, and the gallery "needed" photos, but it certainly points
> > > to a
> > > >> glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO.
> > > >>
> > > >> Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been
> > > fun.
> > > >> Having everything rejected isn't fun at all...
> > >
> > > It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a
> > > minimum
> > > standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you
> > > need
> > > to clear to get a reward, it is a competition.
> > > Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean
> > > you
> > > aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are
> > > such
> > > that you are competing against a standard.
> > > OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally
> > > buggered up
> > > when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based
> > > popularity
> > > contest.
> > >
> > > William Robb
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > PDML@pdml.net
> > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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> > > and follow the directions.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 
>
> > 
> > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you 
>all the
> > tools to get online.
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting
> >
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Jack Davis]

..or a holler!! ;)


Jack
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others.
> For the accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to
> make the same number of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying
> he was submitting between five and ten shots every day. That
> obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but that's why it's not
> a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. And in
> the end, none of it matters a hoot:-).
> Paul
>  -- Original message --
> From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a
> competition.
> > If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score'
> > against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your
> choice.
> > 
> > Jack
> > --- William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > > 
> > > - Original Message - 
> > > From: "Jack Davis"
> > > Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > No way it could be stated any better, Frank.
> > > > Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard
> to
> > > > imagine. Could be they consider "accepted artist" voting a
> handy
> > > > explanation..if needed.
> > > > When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive
> wanes.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > >> 
> > > >> > Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly
> > > pointless.
> > > >> 
> > > >>
> > > >> I agree 100%!
> > > >>
> > > >> Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a
> competition. 
> > > I
> > > >> thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard,
> they
> > > were
> > > >> in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos.  I
> > > didn't
> > > >> see it as "grading" or "rating" photos, merely "accepting".
> > > >>
> > > >> I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most.  I
> didn't
> > > >> understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is.  I
> know
> > > my
> > > >> photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really
> > > they
> > > >> don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but
> I
> > > have
> > > >> to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal,
> > > >> ordinary
> > > >> photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot.  It may
> be
> > > >> that
> > > >> these other photos were accepted early, when there were far
> fewer
> > > >> voters, and the gallery "needed" photos, but it certainly
> points
> > > to a
> > > >> glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO.
> > > >>
> > > >> Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have
> been
> > > fun.
> > > >> Having everything rejected isn't fun at all...
> > > 
> > > It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to
> meet a
> > > minimum 
> > > standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that
> you
> > > need 
> > > to clear to get a reward, it is a competition.
> > > Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't
> mean
> > > you 
> > > aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition
> are
> > > such 
> > > that you are competing against a standard.
> > > OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally
> > > buggered up 
> > > when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based
> > > popularity 
> > > contest.
> > > 
> > > William Robb 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > > PDML@pdml.net
> > > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly
> above
> > > and follow the directions.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> >
>

> > 
> > Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives
> you all the 
> > tools to get online.
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 
> > 
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
> and follow 
> > the directions.
> 
> 
> -- 
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> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
> and follow the directions.
> 



   

Need a vacation? Get great deals
to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
http://travel.yahoo.com/

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Re: PESO ... A Rose by Any Other Name...

[Mark Roberts]

Tom C wrote:

>Outside a Florist's shop.
>
>http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6468680

Going all "Godfrey" on us, eh? 
Nice work.



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RE: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[Bob W]

> Well I guess, my problem is that I consider news photos as editorial

> illustrations, not some super meaningful documentation. 

Yes, I can see how that would be a problem and lead you into all sorts
of difficulties.

> Strangely without 
> captions those particular photos have no particular meaning 
> at all, 

That's true of almost all news / reportage photographs, almost by
definition. What's your point?

--
 Bob
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> Behalf Of graywolf
> Sent: 27 September 2007 18:09
> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> Subject: Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times
> 
> Well I guess, my problem is that I consider news photos as editorial

> illustrations, not some super meaningful documentation. 
> Strangely without 
> captions those particular photos have no particular meaning 
> at all, a dirt road 
> somewhere with a bunch of round stones. The are called 
> critics because they are 
> critical you have to take anything they say with a grain of salt.
> 
> If the Iwo Jima photo was taken in a studio in California is 
> it an any less 
> powerful image? Would it have less meaning to a people at 
> war? It is easy to sit 
> in our comfortable living rooms decades later and talk about 
> it as if it were 
> some kind of conspiracy, but it was a powerful wartime 
> propaganda photo 
> regardless of when and where and how it was taken.
> 
> The error comes in thinking of news photos as some kind of 
> archaeological 
> documentation made for later generations. They are not, nor 
> were they intended 
> as such.
> 
> 
> Bob W wrote:
> > it's important to challenge people who claim without evidence that
> > important historical or journalistic photos, or writings or
whatever
> > are in some way fake or misleading. It's important because it is
> > through history and news (which is after all only history 
> with the ink
> > still wet) that we gain our understanding of the world and our
place
> > in it. It is through news and history that we learn, so as not to
> > repeat earlier mistakes, and only by being able to trust the
sources
> > of history and news is that possible. 
> > 
> > There always seem to be claims of fakery swirling around some of
the
> > most important news photos - the flag on Iwo Jima, Capa's Falling
> > Soldier, now this one. I'm sure I could think of more if I 
> put my mind
> > to it. These claims, when false, undermine people's ability to
trust
> > news photography and play into the hands of people who wish to
> > manipulate the news, history and us. 
> > 
> > On another level, if someone like Susan Sontag, a respected
critic,
> > was sloppy in the research on which she based an important 
> book which
> > has influenced many people's views on news photography, then we
need
> > to know about that because it must affect the way we look at all
her
> > writing, and the many consequences of her writing.
> > 
> > --
> >  Bob
> >  
> > 
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
> >> Behalf Of graywolf
> >> Sent: 26 September 2007 22:45
> >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> Subject: Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times
> >>
> >> Why is it so interesting? I see nothing that makes any 
> >> difference to anyone but 
> >> a few folks who want to be taken for pundits. The lighting 
> >> shows that the sun 
> >> was more overhead in the second photo, but if the 
> >> photographer was into faking 
> >> his photos, he could well have lied about the time he took 
> >> them. It reminds me 
> >> of the title to one of Shakespeare's plays, "Much ado about
> > nothing".
> >>
>  Subject: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times
> 
>  http://tinyurl.com/2oczre
> >> -- 
> >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> >> PDML@pdml.net
> >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly 
> >> above and follow the directions.
> >>
> >>
> > 
> > 
> 
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> 


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Mark Roberts]

Cotty wrote:

>On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:
>
>>Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't 
>>mean you aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the 
>>competition are such that you are competing against a standard.
>
>Question: how subjective is this standard?

Same as all competitions: Very.

Personally, I quite like the Pentax Gallery kind of contest because, 
unlike other contests, I get to aim repeatedly at the same target 
(acceptance into the Gallery, in this case). I may not agree with their 
choices, but teaching myself (or trying to teach myself!) to achieve 
what they're after makes me push myself as a photographer. 

I find that creating works that please someone else is a lot more 
demanding, tiring, frustrating and annoying than creating things that 
please just myself. But that's not necessarily a bad thing.




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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[pnstenquist]

It's a personal competition, but you're not competing against others. For the 
accepted image count to be a score, everyone would have to make the same number 
of submissions. I recall one PDML member saying he was submitting between five 
and ten shots every day. That obviously will skew the curve. Which is fine, but 
that's why it's not a mine vs. yours competition. At least that's what I think. 
And in the end, none of it matters a hoot:-).
Paul
 -- Original message --
From: Jack Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition.
> If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score'
> against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice.
> 
> Jack
> --- William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > - Original Message - 
> > From: "Jack Davis"
> > Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> > 
> > 
> > > No way it could be stated any better, Frank.
> > > Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to
> > > imagine. Could be they consider "accepted artist" voting a handy
> > > explanation..if needed.
> > > When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes.
> > >
> > 
> > >> 
> > >> > Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly
> > pointless.
> > >> 
> > >>
> > >> I agree 100%!
> > >>
> > >> Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. 
> > I
> > >> thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they
> > were
> > >> in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos.  I
> > didn't
> > >> see it as "grading" or "rating" photos, merely "accepting".
> > >>
> > >> I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most.  I didn't
> > >> understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is.  I know
> > my
> > >> photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really
> > they
> > >> don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I
> > have
> > >> to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal,
> > >> ordinary
> > >> photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot.  It may be
> > >> that
> > >> these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer
> > >> voters, and the gallery "needed" photos, but it certainly points
> > to a
> > >> glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO.
> > >>
> > >> Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been
> > fun.
> > >> Having everything rejected isn't fun at all...
> > 
> > It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a
> > minimum 
> > standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you
> > need 
> > to clear to get a reward, it is a competition.
> > Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean
> > you 
> > aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are
> > such 
> > that you are competing against a standard.
> > OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally
> > buggered up 
> > when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based
> > popularity 
> > contest.
> > 
> > William Robb 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List
> > PDML@pdml.net
> > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above
> > and follow the directions.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
>
> 
> 
> Building a website is a piece of cake. Yahoo! Small Business gives you all 
> the 
> tools to get online.
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/webhosting 
> 
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PESO ... A Rose by Any Other Name...

[Tom C]

Outside a Florist's shop.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=6468680

Tom C.



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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Kenneth Waller]

> 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, 
> blocking
> the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint.

> Tom C.

You buying ?


Kenneth Waller
http://tinyurl.com/272u2f


- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


> >I can just about understand the need
>>for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would like
>>to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get
>>my support or interest.
>>
>>Cheers,
>>   Cotty
>>
>
> 2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, 
> blocking
> the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint.  Then 
> we'll
> see how you feel about exclusive. ;-)
>
> Tom C.


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Re: Developer Turned Black [Was: Sad state of Photo Stores]

[Bob Blakely]

Ah ha! Just like the spouts on bar bottles of Jack Daniel's!

Regards,
Bob...

"Art is not a reflection of reality. it is the reality of a reflection." 
  -Jean Luc Godard
 
- Original Message - 
From: "Godfrey DiGiorgi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


> 
> On Sep 26, 2007, at 6:59 PM, Doug Franklin wrote:
> 
>> Bob Blakely wrote:
>>> Ingenious, but what do you do about the marbles trying to run out  
>>> with the
>>> developer when you pour it?
>>
>> Cheesecloth?
> 
> or a small filter cap on the bottle for pouring.


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Re: Organizational Software

[Tom C]

> > My wife is getting serious about trying to organize all our photos. I
> > have most of them scanned and the past several years have all been
> > digital.  So on the plus side, we can work in one medium for the
> > moment.
> >
> > She would like to organize images by child, by event, by date, etc.
> > Then be able to access the images for some type of use - printing,
> > making galleries, making scrapbooks electronically, etc.  So there
> > would need to be other programs to "import" an image and she would
> > need to be able to find it.
> >
> > So if the organization was in a proprietary file or something,
> > external programs may not be able to deal with it.  That would make
> > the organizing less useful.
> >
> > So once organized, she might say, "I want to make a gallery of the
> > highlights of the past year."  So whatever software we use to make
> > online galleries would be loaded and she would want to find all the
> > files for the past year and browse through and choose some for the
> > gallery.  Or she might say "I want prints of the last ice skating
> > competition."  She would need to be able to find the photos and put
> > them on disk or some directory for uploading or some such.
> >
> > We are using Windows XP - so the organizing software would need to
> > work with it.  Any ideas would be helpful.
>

I'd start by giving her an herbal potpourri  like "Rescue Remedy".  If that 
doesn't help then see your doctor for tranquilizers.  Valium might even 
help.

One thing's for certain you can't let this organizational thing continue.  I 
bet it's already creeped into other unwanted areas of your household.

Tom C. :-)



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Re: Travel Lenses

[Steve Desjardins]

A man after my own heart.

As much as I am a fan of primes, on this trip my wife and I were with
10 college students and my job was not to take pictures.  The zoom is
just more effective as a photographic tool and, honestly, I find  the
results very acceptable.  I do note, however, that the FA 20-35 is the
best zoom I've ever had.

>>> Godfrey DiGiorgi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 9/27/2007 1:30 AM >>>
If forced to take just one lens, I'd fit the FA43 on the camera and  
hide the DA21 in my pocket. ;-)

G

On Sep 26, 2007, at 9:05 PM, Boris Liberman wrote:

> FWIW, if going on travel and forced to take just one lens, it would
be
> Tamron 28-75/2.8 for me. ...


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!SIG:46fb401c114177422916288!


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Re: Thinking of AF280T flash

[Axel Belinfante]

> All way too complicated. Gimme a manual flash and a flash meter. ;-)

 :-)

I really, really, really like the aperrant simplicity of ttl flash -
the protocol is dead simple -- start, stop -- and all funky computations/
settings  can happen in the camera, flash needs to know nothing.
I'm really, really, really sorry it's no longer there.

Axel -
I actually was kind of interested in the metz 45ct* televorsatz-es
I'm seeing for not too much money on ebay which would be trivial
to use using ttl flash :-( :-/



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Re: Thinking of AF280T flash

[Axel Belinfante]

William Robb replied to my remark:

> > I guess the bottom line is that "dedicated" by itself is
> > an empty phrase.
> > "dedicated" is not an absolute notion, but a relative one.
> > it is relative to a (family) of camera body(s).
> >
> 
> "Dedicated" is an absolute term, and means that the flash will
> communicate with the camera body to set the shutter speed and
> aperture (in the case of programmed exposure cameras).
> This is by no means an empty phrase, though you probably would
> have needed to be around the camera industry 25 or so years ago
> to know what the original meaning was.
[...]

Thanks for reminding me. I recall the original meaning.
25 years or so ago I got my first slr (pentax me) and though
I never possesed or used a pentax flash I tried to stay informed
about new pentax stuff through the product brochures available
at the photo shops - which included mention of dedicated features.
Your (off the top of your hat?) categorization triggered a search
for more detailed information, which I found in Dimitrovs pages.
In particular at 
"Flash Systems Evolution, Features and Operation".

The categorization there is a bit more refined, and includes
a specific category that resembles the Nikon example given earlier
in this thread. Moreover it provides details about the
evolution of the flash protocol, which I found quite informative.
I'll spare you the details, but I'll include the categorization,
with some info about what actually is (seems to be) exchanged
in the flash protocol.

manual flash - camera triggers flash to fire, using trigger contact
dedicated flash - flash has additional 'ready' contact via which it
tells camera it is fully charged. in response camera switches to
X-sync speed, and lights flash symbold in viewfinder (if available).
(also switches to some pre-programmed aperture?)
auto flash - flash measures output and stops flash output to obtain
accurate exposure, provided user selected right aperture on camera
program flash - flash has additional 'mode' contact via which it
tells the camera the 'brightness' it can output, which the camera,
knowing (film) sensitivity, uses to set appropriate aperture.
web page mentions 4 brightness levels + corresponding signal
at 'mode' contact, measured from AF200T and AF080C.
ttl flash - camera is able to tell flash when to stop output, by
holding 'mode' contact low (0V) until sufficient light has
reached the film plane. it is suggested that TTL sensor is
always active, and "stop output" is sent to flash independent
of mode that the flash is in, or even regardless of flash
being attached to hot-shoe.
digital control flash - flash has additional 'digital' contact
over which a digital protocol is used to communicate things
like aperture, focal length, AF activation, begin of travel
of 2nd curtain, iso, maybe also subject distance etc.
contrast control flash - uses multiple (2?) flashes, one as main
light source, other as fill in, to weaken hard shadows that
may result from single flash. this mode requires that body
measures both flashes separately. therefore flashes are fired
one after the other, which forces ca 50% lower X-sync speeed
high-speed flash - shutter is never full open; flash fires multiple
bursts of light throughout curtains movevement such that all
parts of film plane receive equal amounts of light


it seems the metz sca 300 stuff does dedication upto/including
ttl flash, and for AF spot-beam enabled adapters even 'grabs' AF
activation info to enable the focus assist light.
the metz sca 3000 stuff also passes more digital control info.

my sca 372 adapter has 'ready' and 'mode' contacts, and does
the dedicated, auto and ttl things. it does not pass brightness
info, it seems, i.e. with flash in auto mode camera does
switch to X-sync speed, but also to same (programmed) aperture.

my sca 374/2 AF adapter has 'ready', 'mode' and 'digital' contacts.
in addition to the things done by the 372 it lights AF assist,
and allows 2nd curtain sync. same thing about auto flash.

the sca 3701 does pass more info as is shown on the flash display
(aperture, iso, focal length, AF activation).
moreover it supports contrast control flash mode.
same thing about auto flash (no brightness passed from flash
to camera when flash in auto mode).

> A "manual" flash is a single output unit which only communicates
> output triggering with the camera.
> An "auto" flash is a variable output unit which only communicates
> output triggering with the camera.
> A "dedicated" flash communicates shutter speed and aperture setting 
> information with the camera, and causes the camera to set the shutter
> speed to X-sync and sets the aperture to match the flash output range.
> A "TTL" flash communicates flash output with the camera for the
> purpose of regula

Re: Thinking of AF280T flash

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

All way too complicated. Gimme a manual flash and a flash meter. ;-)

G

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Re: Grand Prix K10D?

[Peter Fairweather]

Might leave the back alone. It took me 5 minutes to work out how to
insert the SD card and that included reading the manual.

The camera seems fine but it does feel bulky after the DS.

Tomorrow I might even try taking a few pictures. I used to do a lot of
that before I contract LBA from internet fora!!

Regards

Peter

On 27/09/2007, David Savage <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> A hammer & cold chisel would be more entertaining.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
> On 9/27/07, P. J. Alling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > A band saw will probably help you in that endeavor.
> >
> > Peter Fairweather wrote:
> > > Good point!! I'll let you know how it's done when I've got the back open.
> > >
> > > On 26/09/2007, Jens Bladt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> A Winder!
> > >> Man, I didn't know I could load film into the d camera!
> > >> BTW the extra batteri unit is excellent. It's great to have two 
> > >> batteries -
> > >> at leas one of them will always work.
> > >> Regards
>
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Re: Organizational Software

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

Lightroom does all this quite easily.

G

BD::
> My wife is getting serious about trying to organize all our photos. I
> have most of them scanned and the past several years have all been
> digital.  So on the plus side, we can work in one medium for the
> moment.
>
> She would like to organize images by child, by event, by date, etc.
> Then be able to access the images for some type of use - printing,
> making galleries, making scrapbooks electronically, etc.  So there
> would need to be other programs to "import" an image and she would
> need to be able to find it.
>
> So if the organization was in a proprietary file or something,
> external programs may not be able to deal with it.  That would make
> the organizing less useful.
>
> So once organized, she might say, "I want to make a gallery of the
> highlights of the past year."  So whatever software we use to make
> online galleries would be loaded and she would want to find all the
> files for the past year and browse through and choose some for the
> gallery.  Or she might say "I want prints of the last ice skating
> competition."  She would need to be able to find the photos and put
> them on disk or some directory for uploading or some such.
>
> We are using Windows XP - so the organizing software would need to
> work with it.  Any ideas would be helpful.


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Jack Davis]

Actually, I consider I'm just vying for a favorable subjective opinion
from da 'judge'.

Jack
--- Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:
> 
> >Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean
> you 
> >aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition
> are such 
> >that you are competing against a standard.
> 
> Question: how subjective is this standard?
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
>   Cotty
> 
> 
> ___/\__
> ||   (O)   | People, Places, Pastiche
> ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com
> _
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Cotty]

On 27/09/07, cbwaters, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Tom, what time is this meet... I have a production rehearsal at 7 PM 
>EST...so with the travel time to the U.K it's going to tighten up my day 
>considerably...

Ceeb I think you'd like it over here. Ever been? We could show you a
pretty nice stadium for starters

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Cotty]

On 27/09/07, William Robb, discombobulated, unleashed:

>Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you 
>aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such 
>that you are competing against a standard.

Question: how subjective is this standard?

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Cotty]

On 27/09/07, Tom C, discombobulated, unleashed:

>2000 people from the PDML will show up at your local pub tomorrow, blocking 
>the door so you can't get in and quaff your thirst with a pint.  Then we'll 
>see how you feel about exclusive. ;-)

Har!!

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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[Cotty]

On 27/09/07, mike wilson, discombobulated, unleashed:

>(I really shouldn't have written that.  Now Cotty will have the horn again.)

Those sentences give me the horn.

(Might get my Derek and Clive DVD out tonight ;-)

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Re: Question about FA 28-105 f/4-5.6 IF, Tamron vs. Pentax

[npx]

I've tried both versions, as well as a Promaster-branded version, and found the 
Pentax to be sharper as well.  I'm fairly certain the primary difference is the 
coatings, since the Tamron rep hinted at that when I asked him about this very 
lens a few years ago.

It could also be you ended up with a defective lens.

John


Quoting David Bliss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Hi All,
> 
> I had the SMC-P version of this lens on my K10D when it decided it would
> rather bounce off the concrete floor than stay in my hand.  I replaced it
> with the Tamron version (got a good price on it, and couldn't find the
> SMC-P variant anywhere).  But I am finding (based on my first few test
> shots) that the Tamron version is much, much less sharp than the Pentax.
> They appear identical, and claimed by many to be the same lens optically.
> Flare isn't an issue in these shots, so I wouldn't expect it to be related
> to the coatings.
> 
> Has anyone tried both versions of this lens?  Or can anyone reassure me
> that
> they should achieve the same sharpness and this example is just defective
> (or not)?
> 
> Thanks,
> david
> 
> 
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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[Norm Baugher]

Not to mention the fact that he was scared as hell because he was under 
fire. It's illogical that he would go around picking up heavy solid shot 
to arrange a photo shoot.
Norm

John Sessoms wrote:
> I think the most likely explanation is the photograph of the cleared 
> road is the later one. There are two military reasons for clearing the 
> cannon balls from the road.
>
> First, the cannon balls may have been picked up by British soldiers and 
> fired back at the Russians by British artillery. The author cites 
> reports from other correspondents that the British did just that.
>
> Muzzle loading cannons don't require precisely fitted shells; the 
> wadding holds the ball in place until the cannon is fired. And the 
> British picked up the ones lying on the road because, soldiers being 
> soldiers, it required less work than digging 'em out of whatever muck 
> might have been in the ditches.
>
> That's also an argument for the photo of the cannon balls in the road 
> being the first one, since it's unlikely the soldiers would have 
> cooperated in such an unnecessary task of moving cannon balls into the 
> road so he could take a photograph of them, especially since they'd just 
> have to remove them again.
>
> Because the road would have to be cleared. That's the second military 
> reason.
>
> If you want to be able to move horse drawn artillery (or cavalry, or any 
> horse drawn equipment) down that road you've got to move those cannon 
> balls. Cannon balls in the road wouldn't be much danger to the wagon 
> wheels, but a horse could break a leg.
>
> And whether the British planned to move down that road or not, a good 
> officer would be prepared for that possibility. I understand that at the 
> company level at least the British did have some good officers.
>
> Good sergeants anyway.
>
> But you wouldn't need to move the cannon balls that were already off the 
> road. Again, Tommy ain't gonna' do any unnecessary work.
>
> Hence photo number two showing the cleared road with all those cannon 
> balls in the ditches.
>
>
>   

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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Jack Davis]

Well, Robb, I'm not surprised that it's being viewed as a competition.
If one chooses to consider the accepted image count as a 'score'
against which one is competing, then it's a competition. Your choice.

Jack
--- William Robb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Jack Davis"
> Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"
> 
> 
> > No way it could be stated any better, Frank.
> > Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to
> > imagine. Could be they consider "accepted artist" voting a handy
> > explanation..if needed.
> > When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes.
> >
> 
> >> 
> >> > Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly
> pointless.
> >> 
> >>
> >> I agree 100%!
> >>
> >> Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition. 
> I
> >> thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they
> were
> >> in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos.  I
> didn't
> >> see it as "grading" or "rating" photos, merely "accepting".
> >>
> >> I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most.  I didn't
> >> understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is.  I know
> my
> >> photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really
> they
> >> don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I
> have
> >> to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal,
> >> ordinary
> >> photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot.  It may be
> >> that
> >> these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer
> >> voters, and the gallery "needed" photos, but it certainly points
> to a
> >> glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO.
> >>
> >> Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been
> fun.
> >> Having everything rejected isn't fun at all...
> 
> It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a
> minimum 
> standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you
> need 
> to clear to get a reward, it is a competition.
> Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean
> you 
> aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are
> such 
> that you are competing against a standard.
> OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally
> buggered up 
> when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based
> popularity 
> contest.
> 
> William Robb 
> 
> 
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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[graywolf]

Well I guess, my problem is that I consider news photos as editorial 
illustrations, not some super meaningful documentation. Strangely without 
captions those particular photos have no particular meaning at all, a dirt road 
somewhere with a bunch of round stones. The are called critics because they are 
critical you have to take anything they say with a grain of salt.

If the Iwo Jima photo was taken in a studio in California is it an any less 
powerful image? Would it have less meaning to a people at war? It is easy to 
sit 
in our comfortable living rooms decades later and talk about it as if it were 
some kind of conspiracy, but it was a powerful wartime propaganda photo 
regardless of when and where and how it was taken.

The error comes in thinking of news photos as some kind of archaeological 
documentation made for later generations. They are not, nor were they intended 
as such.


Bob W wrote:
> it's important to challenge people who claim without evidence that
> important historical or journalistic photos, or writings or whatever
> are in some way fake or misleading. It's important because it is
> through history and news (which is after all only history with the ink
> still wet) that we gain our understanding of the world and our place
> in it. It is through news and history that we learn, so as not to
> repeat earlier mistakes, and only by being able to trust the sources
> of history and news is that possible. 
> 
> There always seem to be claims of fakery swirling around some of the
> most important news photos - the flag on Iwo Jima, Capa's Falling
> Soldier, now this one. I'm sure I could think of more if I put my mind
> to it. These claims, when false, undermine people's ability to trust
> news photography and play into the hands of people who wish to
> manipulate the news, history and us. 
> 
> On another level, if someone like Susan Sontag, a respected critic,
> was sloppy in the research on which she based an important book which
> has influenced many people's views on news photography, then we need
> to know about that because it must affect the way we look at all her
> writing, and the many consequences of her writing.
> 
> --
>  Bob
>  
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
>> Behalf Of graywolf
>> Sent: 26 September 2007 22:45
>> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
>> Subject: Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times
>>
>> Why is it so interesting? I see nothing that makes any 
>> difference to anyone but 
>> a few folks who want to be taken for pundits. The lighting 
>> shows that the sun 
>> was more overhead in the second photo, but if the 
>> photographer was into faking 
>> his photos, he could well have lied about the time he took 
>> them. It reminds me 
>> of the title to one of Shakespeare's plays, "Much ado about
> nothing".
>>
 Subject: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

 http://tinyurl.com/2oczre
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>> above and follow the directions.
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>>
> 
> 

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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[P. J. Alling]

My point was that those that hadn't exploded wouldn't and would still 
look like solid shot. The would weigh considerably less than solid shot 
and would be even less likely than solid shot to create craters at the 
end of their flight.. Historically Russian shells were notoriously 
unreliable. (In an age when all shells were unreliable that's saying 
something). I guess you have to spell everything out.

John Sessoms wrote:
> From: "P. J. Alling"
>
>   
>> If you read the article a quote from the photographer about a fuse
>> would imply at least some were exploding shells,
>> 
>
>
> Some, but not all,
>
> ... and exploding shells of that day often did not explode (or exploded 
> too soon). Fused shells were not reliable. For one thing, there was a 
> good chance the fuse would just get pulled out if the shell hadn't 
> exploded by the time it hit the ground.
>
> But you can see that most of what's in the photos is solid shot. Any 
> exploding shells that had actually exploded wouldn't look like solid 
> shot, although the ones that didn't might.
>
>   


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[John Sessoms]

From: "frank theriault"

> n 9/27/07, Cotty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
>> > Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. 
> 
> I agree 100%!

Unless the prize for the winning photograph is worth having.

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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[John Sessoms]

From: "P. J. Alling"

> If you read the article a quote from the photographer about a fuse
> would imply at least some were exploding shells,


Some, but not all,

... and exploding shells of that day often did not explode (or exploded 
too soon). Fused shells were not reliable. For one thing, there was a 
good chance the fuse would just get pulled out if the shell hadn't 
exploded by the time it hit the ground.

But you can see that most of what's in the photos is solid shot. Any 
exploding shells that had actually exploded wouldn't look like solid 
shot, although the ones that didn't might.

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Re: Chicken or Egg Photo Story - NY Times

[John Sessoms]

From: "Tom C"

> I thought it was an interesting study in human nature, photography
> aside.
> 
> We make assumptions and draw conclusions from what we see, or we
> parrot what we hear or read, and make statements as if they are
> indisputable, yet thinking a little harder...
> 
> To your question... Where then are the craters from the canon balls
> that must have landed *off* the road, in the likely softer soil?
> 

It doesn't look like soft soil; looks like hard rocky dirt. Cannon balls 
would bounce and roll until their momentum was spent. Artillery didn't 
do much indirect fire in those days.

Craters usually come from exploding shells. That looks like all solid shot.

> I would guess they don't really weigh THAT much and were moving at a
> relatively low velocity.
> 
> Another alternate explanation could possibly be that the road, being
> relatively high, slightly sloped and comparatively smooth (less
> friction), allowed the canon balls to roll to the low point when they
> hit the road. An object in motion tends to stay in motion.  Since
> they were likely all shot from the same direction and I would guess,
> at a relatively oblique angle, their momentum might be such to propel
> them off the road.

I think the most likely explanation is the photograph of the cleared 
road is the later one. There are two military reasons for clearing the 
cannon balls from the road.

First, the cannon balls may have been picked up by British soldiers and 
fired back at the Russians by British artillery. The author cites 
reports from other correspondents that the British did just that.

Muzzle loading cannons don't require precisely fitted shells; the 
wadding holds the ball in place until the cannon is fired. And the 
British picked up the ones lying on the road because, soldiers being 
soldiers, it required less work than digging 'em out of whatever muck 
might have been in the ditches.

That's also an argument for the photo of the cannon balls in the road 
being the first one, since it's unlikely the soldiers would have 
cooperated in such an unnecessary task of moving cannon balls into the 
road so he could take a photograph of them, especially since they'd just 
have to remove them again.

Because the road would have to be cleared. That's the second military 
reason.

If you want to be able to move horse drawn artillery (or cavalry, or any 
horse drawn equipment) down that road you've got to move those cannon 
balls. Cannon balls in the road wouldn't be much danger to the wagon 
wheels, but a horse could break a leg.

And whether the British planned to move down that road or not, a good 
officer would be prepared for that possibility. I understand that at the 
company level at least the British did have some good officers.

Good sergeants anyway.

But you wouldn't need to move the cannon balls that were already off the 
road. Again, Tommy ain't gonna' do any unnecessary work.

Hence photo number two showing the cleared road with all those cannon 
balls in the ditches.


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[William Robb]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jack Davis"
Subject: Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"


> No way it could be stated any better, Frank.
> Their not having anticipating a volume crunch is, however, hard to
> imagine. Could be they consider "accepted artist" voting a handy
> explanation..if needed.
> When 'proven' laudable work is summarily declined, incentive wanes.
>

>> 
>> > Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless.
>> 
>>
>> I agree 100%!
>>
>> Funny thing is, I didn't see The Pentax Gallery as a competition.  I
>> thought that as long as the photos met a minimum standard, they were
>> in, and it would be a cool place from which to show photos.  I didn't
>> see it as "grading" or "rating" photos, merely "accepting".
>>
>> I think it's that misconception that pisses me off most.  I didn't
>> understand it as a competition at all, and clearly it is.  I know my
>> photos aren't all pretty or pleasing or spectacular, so really they
>> don't stand a chance against some that are in the gallery, but I have
>> to admit to feeling a bit stung when I saw some rather banal,
>> ordinary
>> photos that got accepted, while mine all got the boot.  It may be
>> that
>> these other photos were accepted early, when there were far fewer
>> voters, and the gallery "needed" photos, but it certainly points to a
>> glaring inconsitency in the acceptance procedure, IMHO.
>>
>> Too bad, because had it been set up properly, it could have been fun.
>> Having everything rejected isn't fun at all...

It's unfortunate that you believe that getting your photos to meet a minimum 
standard isn't a competition. Any time someone puts up a bar that you need 
to clear to get a reward, it is a competition.
Just because you aren't competing with another person, doesn't mean you 
aren't competing, it just means that the rules of the competition are such 
that you are competing against a standard.
OTOH, I really do think the people running the gallery totally buggered up 
when they changed the acceptance procedure into a peer based popularity 
contest.

William Robb 


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Re: Pentax Gallery "Resignation"

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

On Sep 27, 2007, at 12:09 AM, Cotty wrote:

> My competitive side extends solely to my professional life. Needs  
> must.
> Beyond that, I'm not a keen advocate of the 'I am better than you  
> and I
> would like it personally vindicated' philosophy.
>
> Actually I see any photographic competition as utterly pointless. To
> encourage creativity? Loada bollux! I can just about understand the  
> need
> for people to want to belong to something they believe in, or would  
> like
> to be a part of, but anything that by nature is exclusive does not get
> my support or interest.

I agree completely.

I enter photos into exhibition "contests" on a regular basis as a  
part of my professional business. It's a crap shoot ... anyone with  
any sense realizes that a "competition" of this sort is 100%  
subjective whimsy on the part of the juror committee.

Godfrey


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Re: Travel Lenses

[Evan Hanson]

I would probably go with primes, a 24, a 43, and a 77 or 135.

Evan

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Re: Travel Lenses

[John Sessoms]

From: Boris Liberman

> FWIW, if going on travel and forced to take just one lens, it would
> be Tamron 28-75/2.8 for me.
> 
> If not limited to just one lens I'd probably take three limiteds and
> a wide zoom.
> 
> Cheers!


The time I was forced to travel light recently, I carried a 28-70 f/2.8 
& 80-200 f/2.8 along with a 1.4x converter. Those lenses will cover full 
frame. I carried an *ist-D with a PZ-1P for backup.

Found that didn't do enough for me on the wide end, so I found a dealer 
and added the 18-35 FAJ lens while on the road.

OTOH, I'm leaving tomorrow for 16 days in the American Southwest, 
driving from the east coast so I won't have to worry about weight/space
restrictions.

Planning to take the above kit for K10D [with the *ist-D as backup now] 
augmented with a 300 f/2.8, 100A f/2.8 macro, and, of course, the PZ-1P.

I'll also take my LX kit [K1000 for backup] with a 24A f/2.8, 35A f/2.0, 
50M f/1.4 & 100M f/2.8.

... plus a medium format kit and a large format [4x5] kit.

I guess I'm just the "Howard Johnson's" of travel photography.

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RE: Developer Turned Black [Was: Sad state of Photo Stores]

[Anthony Farr]

The cheapest preservative is your own exhaled breath.  Just hold your breath
for about 10 seconds to get a higher level of CO2, and then slowly exhale as
much as you can into the bottle.  The longer you exhale the richer the CO2
concentration will be.  CO2 is heavier than oxygen, so as long as the bottle
is not moved about it settles onto the surface of the liquid as a kind of
floating lid.  This way, I've kept stock solutions unspoiled for many times
their expected shelf life.

Dark bottles or a dark storage area will help developers, especially if you
return used developer to the stock solution which causes a bromide buildup;
good for soft highlights, rich shadows and fine grain but apt to darken the
developer if exposed to excessive light.

Regards,
Anthony Farr

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob
Blakely
Sent: Thursday, 27 September 2007 9:33 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Developer Turned Black [Was: Sad state of Photo Stores]

It would be nice if the bottles had bladders so that they could be capped 
half used without any air to oxidize the contents.

Regards,
Bob...


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