Re: OT, Underwater nudes

[Walt Gilbert]

On 11/27/2011 9:57 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
I don't often find a genre of photography that is new to me.  I 
stumbled across a link to one of his photos on someone else's flickr 
feed, and was impressed by his work on several levels.  Probably NSFW, 
mostly "artistic nudes". In other words you probably wouldn't see his 
stuff at work, unless you worked in an art gallery


http://www.flickr.com/photos/alberich/

One I like in particular:
www.flickr.com/photos/alberich/6055570740/'

Very nice!  I really liked the one you singled out as well.

I think what I most admire about it is the dedication required to 
actually master that kind of photography.  Seems like that would be 
extremely challenging conditions to work under.


-- Walt

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Re: OT, Underwater nudes

[Cotty]

On 27/11/11, Larry Colen, discombobulated, unleashed:

>I don't often find a genre of photography that is new to me.  I stumbled
>across a link to one of his photos on someone else's flickr feed, and
>was impressed by his work on several levels.  Probably NSFW, mostly
>"artistic nudes". In other words you probably wouldn't see his stuff at
>work, unless you worked in an art gallery
>
>http://www.flickr.com/photos/alberich/
>
>One I like in particular:
>www.flickr.com/photos/alberich/6055570740/'

Facinating! Thanks.

--


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  Cotty


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Re: I got blogged, Head On

[Cotty]

On 28/11/11, Derby Chang, discombobulated, unleashed:

>
>
>http://headon.com.au/node/7495
>
>OK, full disclosure. The blog editor is a good friend of mine. She had
>been gently suggesting we do this for about 6 months, but we only just
>got around to it now. Coincidentally, I'd just finished a Blurb book,
>which she, nicely, links to at the end of the post.
>
>Rather chuffed to be in the good company of the place.

Great job!

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Rob Studdert]

On 27 November 2011 13:45, Doug "Lefty" Franklin  wrote:

> I think it could be a good thing.  However, it has the same governance
> issues as the PUG and the PDML: someone has to be "first point of contact"
> and "owner" at any point it time.  And some sort of transition will be
> required when someone wants to retire from that "owner" role. The folks been
> able to handle those issues for the PDML, and I'd think they'd be able to
> handle it for a Facebook PUG page, too.

A FB community page or organisation page (I co-manage one) can have a
number of admins which negates that need for handovers etc.

Cheers,

-- 
Rob Studdert (Digital  Image Studio)
Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio

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Re: Promoting the PUG, and the list

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

You are absolutely right, Doug, Cory did coin (pun intended) the PESO. Shel had 
earlier suggested the PAW (photo a week) an idea which I believe he got from 
the Leica Users Group (LUG).

Good ol' Shel. He rubbed a lot of folks the wrong way but I liked him a lot, 
even though it was his nasty comment that was referred to much earlier in this 
thread as going way beyond a critique, becoming a personal attack. I think the 
whole affair led to his leaving the list.

I should look him up one of these days, see how he's doing.

cheers,

frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Doug Brewer 
Sent: November 29, 2011 11/29/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Promoting the PUG, and the list

On 11/28/11 10:49 PM, Mark C wrote:
> /
> /I don't know what ever happened to him, but a grand PDML'er named Shel
> Belinkoff once posted that we all talk about photos but never actually
> share them and suggested that we post a picture every so often - and
> thus was born the PESO, GESO, etc tradition. His comment sparked a
> fantastic change to the list, back when. Shel used to also diss on
> nature photography, often commentating that the greatest technical skill
> that nature photographers achieved was using a long exposure to blur
> moving water. He used to piss me off but I miss him - does anyone knoe
> what he is up to these days?

Pretty sure it was our Cory Waters that spawned PESO. Don't know what 
happened to Shel, though.

>
> As far as the PUG goes - it did arise in the days when it was hard to
> get your photos on line. I was the third (? I think) pugmeister back in
> the early 00's and it truly was a vehicle to help people get their work
> online. KomKon was enormously generous to give us bandwidth and a
> platform back then, then it was really not cheap to get your own website
> and public forums like flicker were still a glint in the internet's eye.

I guess nobody read the foreword to the most recent PDML book. It 
described the early days of the PUG accurately, if not factually.

Best as I recall, it was, in PUGMeister chronological order: Me, Steve 
G., Me, then you.

>
> Mark C
>


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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[David Mann]

On Nov 29, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Tom C wrote:

> Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.
> 
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg

Nice photo but the colours clash with the Groupon ad above it.  You need to 
shoot something with bright green and pink.

Dave (another photo.net fan... not!)


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Re: GESO: Little River Rail Trail

[David Mann]

On Nov 29, 2011, at 9:42 AM, steve harley wrote:

> i enjoyed the photos too, an interesting armchair journey; would have liked 
> to know/see more about that quarry

Yes I'd like to know more about it myself.  I don't remember if there was more 
signage there but I'm struggling to find much information about it.  It might 
be necessary to hit some actual paper books once the library reopens.

Thanks for commenting.

Cheers,
Dave


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RE: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Those colours are amazing! Gorgeous photo, Tom.

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Tom C 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

We have this discussion on a semi-regular basis, and I recall that several 
years ago we decided to do exactly that, which is why I always put, "comments 
always welcome," on my PESOs (am I the only one who still does this?).

Personally I don't understand why anyone would want to post on a forum such as 
this if one doesn't want comment and critique, but that's just me.

Yeah, you gotta take the good with the bad, but how else are you gonna learn? 
Of course personal attacks and insults aren't to be tolerated but they are rare 
and tend to be well policed by the list at large.

I don't think that more acronyms or initialisms will do much more than clutter 
our already busy lives.

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Brian Walters 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism

On Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM, "Daniel J. Matyola"
 wrote:
> I still say that we should have two types of submissions:  PESOs
> (pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing)  and IFiQ:  Images
> submitted for discussion and critiques.
> 


By all means give that a try but, I think a statement in a PESO noting
that "comments and suggestions are welcome" (or similar), should be
enough.  I'm can't understand why a statement like that shouldn't be
taken at face value.



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/




-- 


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Re: Promoting the PUG, and the list

[Doug Brewer]

On 11/28/11 10:49 PM, Mark C wrote:

/
/I don't know what ever happened to him, but a grand PDML'er named Shel
Belinkoff once posted that we all talk about photos but never actually
share them and suggested that we post a picture every so often - and
thus was born the PESO, GESO, etc tradition. His comment sparked a
fantastic change to the list, back when. Shel used to also diss on
nature photography, often commentating that the greatest technical skill
that nature photographers achieved was using a long exposure to blur
moving water. He used to piss me off but I miss him - does anyone knoe
what he is up to these days?


Pretty sure it was our Cory Waters that spawned PESO. Don't know what 
happened to Shel, though.




As far as the PUG goes - it did arise in the days when it was hard to
get your photos on line. I was the third (? I think) pugmeister back in
the early 00's and it truly was a vehicle to help people get their work
online. KomKon was enormously generous to give us bandwidth and a
platform back then, then it was really not cheap to get your own website
and public forums like flicker were still a glint in the internet's eye.


I guess nobody read the foreword to the most recent PDML book. It 
described the early days of the PUG accurately, if not factually.


Best as I recall, it was, in PUGMeister chronological order: Me, Steve 
G., Me, then you.




Mark C




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Weird K-5 power glitch

[Larry Colen]

I guess that the good news is that it seems like it is no longer one of those 
hard to detect intermittent problems.

--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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Re: GESO: Little River Rail Trail

[David Mann]

On Nov 29, 2011, at 10:30 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote:

> Dave,
> Rail trails are quite popular in the midwestern USA.
> We have them in urban areas where commuter electric lines closed.
> We have them in rural areas where branch lines were abandoned.
> Railroads predated cars and trucks and serious roads.
> After WWII, railroad traffic declined and trucks/automobiles took over.
> By the 1960's railroads were looking to abandon 'branch lines' of 5-10
> miles each.
> Local communities often took them over as riding trails.

Sounds familiar, we used to have branch lines going everywhere.  Nowadays 
there's very little left.  We use rail quite a bit for freight but not as much 
as they could.  Part of the problem is that they only built a single line with 
a few passing lanes so they have to be careful about scheduling the trains in 
each direction.

> Pleaase note that a 2% grade is a big thing for a railroad, so our trails are 
> reasonably flat.

Much the same here.  That's why the trains got tunnels through the alps but not 
the road :)  The Otira Tunnel has a 3% gradient and I think they run 4 
locomotives on the coal trains for that.  The infamous Rimutaka Incline was 1 
in 15 (6.67%) which necessitated a fell locomotive.  That one's now part of a 
short but very nice rail trail.

Dave


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Re: PESO - Preening

[Joseph McAllister]

Ditto. Great and tranquil image.


On Nov 28, 2011, at 20:02 , Bob Sullivan wrote:

> Like the light, blue swan on gold background.  Very nice.  Regards,  Bob S.
> 
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 8:56 PM, frank theriault
>  wrote:
>> There's not much happening down by the Lake these days;  about the
>> only animals around are waterfowl (I saw a couple of grebes and a
>> bufflehead duck, but wasn't able to get a good shot of either) and
>> gulls.
>> 
>> However, I did get this swan with the low late afternoon sun behind him:
>> 
>> http://knarfdummyblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/preening.html
>> 
>> Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome.
> 

Joseph McAllister
pentax...@mac.com

The Big Bang was silent, and  invisible in it's beginning moments.
Photons were one of the earliest particles to develop, 
but I don't think any were able to escape for a little bit more.
Once they could, there would have been a flash during expansion.
No one would notice, of course, for another 4.2 billion years.
Now we are trying to catch up by looking out, and back in time
to that infinitesimally small fraction of a millisecond in an attempt 
to see what caused that singularity to become the Big Bang. This attempt 
will fail in any visual way, as the furthest galaxies and elements 
are now moving faster than light by recent theory, making the 
information sought beyond a theoretical event horizon.

— update to the Pentaxian's thoughts on particle physics, so far.


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Re: OT: Kindle Fire

[Tom C]

> Walter Hamler wrote:
>> Anyone out there using the Kindle Fire?  I ordered one today after
>> reading a review on Z-Net that highly touted it.
>>
>> Walt
>>
>
> Hi Walt.
>
> Yeah, but I can't tell you much about it.
> I'm as green as can be on it. I'm only about 2 hours into having messed
> around with it.
>
> It's up and running, but...I am NOT yet comfortable with it.
>
> Keep my email address and check in from time to time. I'll report
> whatever I've discovered, but I haven't even begun to examine 1?10th of
> what it can do. Maybe 1/40th! 
> .
>
> It has already, and automatically, loaded all my books from my old,
> still active Kindle III. All of them! All I have to do is access them
> (almost instantly!) and start reading. Wow.
> I'm going to really like this Fire!  
>
> keith

I pre-ordered and got one on the 15th. I haven't used it to it's full
potential but it's lived up to my expectations. I originally thought
for $199 it was a no-brainer if I wanted a tablet for browsing,
e-mailing, movie watching, reading, etc. It's been just that and while
I'd overall prefer a 10" tablet over a 7", for $199 it's an amazing
device considering I can do 99% of what I'd do with an iPad at 1/3 to
1/2 the cost. While in Los Angeles for a recent wedding I watched a
number of Netflix shows at the hotel with no issues and it was aware
of any apps I'd already purchased through the Amazon appstore.

It won't work with the standard Android Market, without rooting it and
doing some manual installs, which I'll probably do. I'm not sure I
have the need to though. A GPS capability would be nice, but again for
$199, it's amazing and is saving my sight when I use it instead of the
Android phone.

Tom C.

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Ann Sanfedele]

On 11/28/2011 22:20, Rick Womer wrote:

Do I want to know what IFQ stands for?

Rick

Rick - see my post :-)
Great minds - or, perhaps not so great...

ann



http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Daniel J. Matyola
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Cc:
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism

I still say that we should have two types of submissions:  PESOs
(pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing)  and IFQ:  Images
submitted for discussion and critiques.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William Robb
  wrote:

On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote:





7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.


Well, yes and no. Only giving positive feedback can have exactly the
opposite effect.
Here's a metaphor.
As you know, I take pride in my abilities to train dogs. As a dog trainer,
one of the tools I use is called "positive reinforcement". This training
technique (and it is quite successful) used praise when the dog does
something tight, and no feedback at all when the dog doesn't do what you
want.
The idea is that by ignoring undesirable behaviour and praising the dog
whenever it comes up with a way to please the owner, the dog will tend to
start doing that which gives it feedback, and will cease doing the
undesirable stuff which gives it nothing at all.

So, lets take what we have learned about simple psychology and apply it to
photography.
A person goes out and shoots a subject, any subject, and manages to hit on a
decent picture. They post it to the internet and get back positive comments,
comments that may be semi specific in relation to aspects of the image.
So, the person starts looking for those aspects, since this is what garnered
positive feedback.
And next thing you know, they have a whole body of work of what is
essentially the same picture.
Take it from someone who has a whole body of work that is essentially the
same picture, I know of what I speak.


8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
or respond.


But it isn't negative feedback, it's just no feedback at all (negative
feedback would be, metaphorically speaking, a good solid jerk on the leash).
So, your "negative feedback" becomes meaningless in the face of the positive
motivation that comes from the gushers, and the person goes out and takes
another picture of a pretty girl in front of a hunk of canvas, or another
sunset, or another of the many, many cliches that are abused by
photographers on a daily basis.
And life goes on, and photography gets dumbed down a little bit more.

Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies?

--

William Robb

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Ann Sanfedele]

I F Q ?
dangerous acronym, that Dan!

lol
ann

On 11/28/2011 21:54, Brian Walters wrote:

On Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM, "Daniel J. Matyola"
  wrote:

I still say that we should have two types of submissions:  PESOs
(pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing)  and IFQ:  Images
submitted for discussion and critiques.




By all means give that a try but, I think a statement in a PESO noting
that "comments and suggestions are welcome" (or similar), should be
enough.  I'm can't understand why a statement like that shouldn't be
taken at face value.



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/






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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[Tom C]

> From: steve harley 

> on 2011-11-28 13:37 Tom C wrote
>> Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg
>>
>
> i like the patterns in that photo, wish i could see it bigger and explore the
> details ? that's what photos like that invite me to do; if i were taking the
> photo i would have been frustrated trying to frame it; the choice you made
> seems okay, but what's above?
>
> great time to visit ? i bet the crowds were thin
>
> a rant not directed at the photo or photographer:
> i tried clicking to get a larger view, but it actually made it smaller, and
> only after first repeating the pop-over ad that i got when i first loaded the
> page; one or more annoying user experiences seem to happen every time i view a
> photo at photo.net lately
>

I found Bryce difficult because there are so many variations in the
landscape it's hard to decide upon an in camera crop, which this was.
as far as what's above, it's a treed canyon rim, maybe 10% the height
of the displayed image and then sky. In this instance I thought it
detracted from the type of image I was wanted.

Crowds were pretty thin, but quadrupled the day after Thanksgiving...
largely Japanese tour bus groups  and a fair number of Europeans.
Still sparse compared to summer I'm sure.

It made it smaller because I already had the link going to the larger
view. I agree, I hate the random popup ads now appearing on photo.net.

Thanks for looking and commenting. I'll send you a larger version if you wish.

Tom C.

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Re: PESO - Preening

[Bob Sullivan]

Like the light, blue swan on gold background.  Very nice.  Regards,  Bob S.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 8:56 PM, frank theriault
 wrote:
> There's not much happening down by the Lake these days;  about the
> only animals around are waterfowl (I saw a couple of grebes and a
> bufflehead duck, but wasn't able to get a good shot of either) and
> gulls.
>
> However, I did get this swan with the low late afternoon sun behind him:
>
> http://knarfdummyblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/preening.html
>
> Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome.
>
> --
> "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson
>
> --
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Re: OT: Kindle Fire

[P. J. Alling]

On 11/28/2011 9:25 PM, Walter Hamler wrote:

Anyone out there using the Kindle Fire?  I ordered one today after
reading a review on Z-Net that highly touted it.

Walt


It seems to me that it would be a fine device, if it weren't tied to Amazon.

--
Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a 
lengthily search.


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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[P. J. Alling]

Hum, probably not.

On 11/28/2011 10:20 PM, Rick Womer wrote:

Do I want to know what IFQ stands for?

Rick
  
http://photo.net/photos/RickW



- Original Message -
From: Daniel J. Matyola
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Cc:
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism

I still say that we should have two types of submissions:  PESOs
(pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing)  and IFQ:  Images
submitted for discussion and critiques.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William Robb
  wrote:

On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote:

7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.

Well, yes and no. Only giving positive feedback can have exactly the
opposite effect.
Here's a metaphor.
As you know, I take pride in my abilities to train dogs. As a dog trainer,
one of the tools I use is called "positive reinforcement". This training
technique (and it is quite successful) used praise when the dog does
something tight, and no feedback at all when the dog doesn't do what you
want.
The idea is that by ignoring undesirable behaviour and praising the dog
whenever it comes up with a way to please the owner, the dog will tend to
start doing that which gives it feedback, and will cease doing the
undesirable stuff which gives it nothing at all.

So, lets take what we have learned about simple psychology and apply it to
photography.
A person goes out and shoots a subject, any subject, and manages to hit on a
decent picture. They post it to the internet and get back positive comments,
comments that may be semi specific in relation to aspects of the image.
So, the person starts looking for those aspects, since this is what garnered
positive feedback.
And next thing you know, they have a whole body of work of what is
essentially the same picture.
Take it from someone who has a whole body of work that is essentially the
same picture, I know of what I speak.


8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
or respond.

But it isn't negative feedback, it's just no feedback at all (negative
feedback would be, metaphorically speaking, a good solid jerk on the leash).
So, your "negative feedback" becomes meaningless in the face of the positive
motivation that comes from the gushers, and the person goes out and takes
another picture of a pretty girl in front of a hunk of canvas, or another
sunset, or another of the many, many cliches that are abused by
photographers on a daily basis.
And life goes on, and photography gets dumbed down a little bit more.

Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies?

--

William Robb

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--
Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a 
lengthily search.


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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[P. J. Alling]

Thus it starts.  The proliferation of alphabet acronyms that leads to 
complete communication breakdown.


On 11/28/2011 8:18 PM, Daniel J. Matyola wrote:

I still say that we should have two types of submissions:  PESOs
(pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing)  and IFQ:  Images
submitted for discussion and critiques.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William Robb
  wrote:

On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote:

7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.

Well, yes and no. Only giving positive feedback can have exactly the
opposite effect.
Here's a metaphor.
As you know, I take pride in my abilities to train dogs. As a dog trainer,
one of the tools I use is called "positive reinforcement". This training
technique (and it is quite successful) used praise when the dog does
something tight, and no feedback at all when the dog doesn't do what you
want.
The idea is that by ignoring undesirable behaviour and praising the dog
whenever it comes up with a way to please the owner, the dog will tend to
start doing that which gives it feedback, and will cease doing the
undesirable stuff which gives it nothing at all.

So, lets take what we have learned about simple psychology and apply it to
photography.
A person goes out and shoots a subject, any subject, and manages to hit on a
decent picture. They post it to the internet and get back positive comments,
comments that may be semi specific in relation to aspects of the image.
So, the person starts looking for those aspects, since this is what garnered
positive feedback.
And next thing you know, they have a whole body of work of what is
essentially the same picture.
Take it from someone who has a whole body of work that is essentially the
same picture, I know of what I speak.


8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
or respond.

But it isn't negative feedback, it's just no feedback at all (negative
feedback would be, metaphorically speaking, a good solid jerk on the leash).
So, your "negative feedback" becomes meaningless in the face of the positive
motivation that comes from the gushers, and the person goes out and takes
another picture of a pretty girl in front of a hunk of canvas, or another
sunset, or another of the many, many cliches that are abused by
photographers on a daily basis.
And life goes on, and photography gets dumbed down a little bit more.

Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies?

--

William Robb

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--
Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a 
lengthily search.


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Re: Promoting the PUG, and the list

[Mark C]

On 11/27/2011 4:46 PM, Brian Walters wrote:
The PUG started in pre-digital days when the ability to share photos 
online wasn't as trivial as it is now and, to some extent, the 
widespread uses of PESOs and GESOs has taken over part of its role. 
But a themed gallery combining the talents of members is still a nice 
feature of the list, IMO. Cheers Brian 
++ Brian Walters Western Sydney 
Australia http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/

/
/I don't know what ever happened to him, but a grand PDML'er named Shel 
Belinkoff once posted that we all talk about photos but never actually 
share them and suggested that we post a picture every so often  - and 
thus was born the PESO, GESO, etc tradition. His comment sparked a 
fantastic change to the list, back when. Shel used to also diss on 
nature photography, often commentating that the greatest technical skill 
that nature photographers achieved was using a long exposure to blur 
moving water. He used to piss me off but I miss him - does anyone knoe 
what he is up to these days?


As far as the PUG goes - it did arise in the days when it was hard to 
get your photos on line. I was the third (? I think) pugmeister back in 
the early 00's and it truly was a vehicle to help people get their work 
online. KomKon was enormously generous to give us bandwidth and a 
platform back then, then it was really not cheap to get your own website 
and public forums like flicker were still a glint in the internet's eye.


Mark C

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Re: Smoothing out tan lines in lightroom?

[David Parsons]

The clone/heal tool in LR is only a spot brush.   It's not really
designed to do what you did.

You can do it in a pinch, but it is sub-optimal.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 10:30 PM, Mark C  wrote:
> Don't know for light room, but I pulled image 20110806-LRC22495.jpg into
> photoshop, set the clone tool to 35% transparency and was able to quickly
> eliminate the dagger like tan line running down her chest and the shoulder
> lines. My edit was crude but you could easily clean with the healing brush.
> Do they not have those tools in lightroom? I only use Photoshop / ACR. I
> spend about 90 seconds on the image but I doubt that it would take more than
> 5 minutes to do a fully good clean up.
>
> On 11/27/2011 4:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
>>
>> Rebecca asked if I could smooth out tan lines in her upper arms in some
>> photos from this photo shoot:
>> www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157627282460471
>> Rebecca is the brunette in the first four photos.
>> I don't know how to do so in lightroom, without her upper arms looking
>> like they are constructed of blurry plastic.  I *might* be able to do
>> something with the burn/dodge brush.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Or
>> is that a photo shop job?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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http://www.davidparsonsphoto.com

Aloha Photographer Photoblog
http://alohaphotog.blogspot.com/

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Tom C]

>
>> 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
>> positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
>> excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
>> practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
>
> Well, yes and no. Only giving positive feedback can have exactly the
> opposite effect.
> Here's a metaphor.
> As you know, I take pride in my abilities to train dogs. As a dog
> trainer, one of the tools I use is called "positive reinforcement". This
> training technique (and it is quite successful) used praise when the dog
> does something tight, and no feedback at all when the dog doesn't do
> what you want.
> The idea is that by ignoring undesirable behaviour and praising the dog
> whenever it comes up with a way to please the owner, the dog will tend
> to start doing that which gives it feedback, and will cease doing the
> undesirable stuff which gives it nothing at all.
>
> So, lets take what we have learned about simple psychology and apply it
> to photography.
> A person goes out and shoots a subject, any subject, and manages to hit
> on a decent picture. They post it to the internet and get back positive
> comments, comments that may be semi specific in relation to aspects of
> the image.
> So, the person starts looking for those aspects, since this is what
> garnered positive feedback.
> And next thing you know, they have a whole body of work of what is
> essentially the same picture.
> Take it from someone who has a whole body of work that is essentially
> the same picture, I know of what I speak.
>

I understand exactly what you're saying, but have problems with the
metaphor (you knew I would).

First off, you're talking about dogs and I believe most people are
capable of being more intelligent than dogs. Secondly you said you
take pride in your ability to train dogs, and therein lies a big
difference, You have an interest, often a vested interest in dog
training. I and many others here have no vested interested in
'training' or teaching people photography. We share a common interest
yes, and sometimes offer either praise or helpful negative feedback -
but I'm not interested in providing negative feedback to numerous
(many) posters who display an image, in much the same way and for the
same reason I don't give to every charity that asks me to 'do my fair
share'. I either have no interest or no time to provide feedback to
very many posters simply because they posted an image (and as
mentioned before, many posters are not really seeking feedback
regarding the merits of the image itself).

There's also some genres I have no interest in, or have little to no
experience with, and therefore refrain from commenting.

>> 8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
>> on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
>> or respond.
>
> But it isn't negative feedback, it's just no feedback at all (negative
> feedback would be, metaphorically speaking, a good solid jerk on the
> leash). So, your "negative feedback" becomes meaningless in the face of
> the positive motivation that comes from the gushers, and the person goes
> out and takes another picture of a pretty girl in front of a hunk of
> canvas, or another sunset, or another of the many, many cliches that are
> abused by photographers on a daily basis.
> And life goes on, and photography gets dumbed down a little bit more.
>

I agree with the first statement, but I think that's where human and
dogs differ. If I show a picture to 10 people and 9 out of 10 don't
respond, I figure either they didn't like it or it didn't interest
them enough to comment. Either way, I figure the image was not that
great (i.e. failure), and therefore I learn to be more critical of my
own images I present.

Basically it gets down to the fact that it's not my job to be a
photography teacher or critic and therefore I'm not. I sometimes give
negative feedback on a very good image with lots of potential.

> Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies?

My hero. :-)

Tom C.

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Re: Smoothing out tan lines in lightroom?

[Mark C]

Don't know for light room, but I pulled image 20110806-LRC22495.jpg into 
photoshop, set the clone tool to 35% transparency and was able to 
quickly eliminate the dagger like tan line running down her chest and 
the shoulder lines. My edit was crude but you could easily clean with 
the healing brush. Do they not have those tools in lightroom? I only use 
Photoshop / ACR. I spend about 90 seconds on the image but I doubt that 
it would take more than 5 minutes to do a fully good clean up.


On 11/27/2011 4:19 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

Rebecca asked if I could smooth out tan lines in her upper arms in some photos 
from this photo shoot:
www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157627282460471
Rebecca is the brunette in the first four photos.
I don't know how to do so in lightroom, without her upper arms looking like 
they are constructed of blurry plastic.  I *might* be able to do something with 
the burn/dodge brush.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  Or is that a photo 
shop job?


--
Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est








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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Rick Womer]

Do I want to know what IFQ stands for?

Rick
 
http://photo.net/photos/RickW


- Original Message -
From: Daniel J. Matyola 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism

I still say that we should have two types of submissions:  PESOs
(pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing)  and IFQ:  Images
submitted for discussion and critiques.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William Robb
 wrote:
> On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote:
>>
>
>> 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
>> positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
>> excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
>> practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
>
> Well, yes and no. Only giving positive feedback can have exactly the
> opposite effect.
> Here's a metaphor.
> As you know, I take pride in my abilities to train dogs. As a dog trainer,
> one of the tools I use is called "positive reinforcement". This training
> technique (and it is quite successful) used praise when the dog does
> something tight, and no feedback at all when the dog doesn't do what you
> want.
> The idea is that by ignoring undesirable behaviour and praising the dog
> whenever it comes up with a way to please the owner, the dog will tend to
> start doing that which gives it feedback, and will cease doing the
> undesirable stuff which gives it nothing at all.
>
> So, lets take what we have learned about simple psychology and apply it to
> photography.
> A person goes out and shoots a subject, any subject, and manages to hit on a
> decent picture. They post it to the internet and get back positive comments,
> comments that may be semi specific in relation to aspects of the image.
> So, the person starts looking for those aspects, since this is what garnered
> positive feedback.
> And next thing you know, they have a whole body of work of what is
> essentially the same picture.
> Take it from someone who has a whole body of work that is essentially the
> same picture, I know of what I speak.
>
>> 8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
>> on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
>> or respond.
>
> But it isn't negative feedback, it's just no feedback at all (negative
> feedback would be, metaphorically speaking, a good solid jerk on the leash).
> So, your "negative feedback" becomes meaningless in the face of the positive
> motivation that comes from the gushers, and the person goes out and takes
> another picture of a pretty girl in front of a hunk of canvas, or another
> sunset, or another of the many, many cliches that are abused by
> photographers on a daily basis.
> And life goes on, and photography gets dumbed down a little bit more.
>
> Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies?
>
> --
>
> William Robb
>
> --
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> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>

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Re: CDR Archive Transfer

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-11-28 21:56, Mark C wrote:

Just thought I'd share with the list a few comments about transferring
images off CD's...


I've been through that myself.  That's one of the reasons that I keep my 
primary "negative archive" for digital photos on a RAID 10 array on a 
high-speed network, at a minimum.  I don't trust CD-R, CD+R, DVD-R, 
DVD+R, etc., for long term storage.  My long term storage plan includes 
hard drives in RAID arrays plus copies on CD/DVD recordable media, and 
flash media.  At one time or another I've been screwed by all of those 
technologies, and others, but never by more than two at a time.  We 
won't even talk about the various incarnations of tape backup.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Doug Franklin]

On 2011-11-28 21:54, Brian Walters wrote:


By all means give that a try but, I think a statement in a PESO noting
that "comments and suggestions are welcome" (or similar), should be
enough.  I'm can't understand why a statement like that shouldn't be
taken at face value.


I agree, but with a caveat: Don't put a statement like that on your 
posting if you're not prepared to deal with the results.  The results 
could include a response like the one mentioned about fifty or a hundred 
messages ago, a response like "you should be ashamed to post such dreck" 
(paraphrasing).  Personally, I think that "critique" was totally out of 
line, but it could happen again, so be prepared.


--
Thanks,
DougF (KG4LMZ)

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Christine Nielsen]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William Robb
 wrote:
> On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote:
>>
>
>> 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
>> positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
>> excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
>> practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
>
> Well, yes and no. Only giving positive feedback can have exactly the
> opposite effect.
> Here's a metaphor.
> As you know, I take pride in my abilities to train dogs. As a dog trainer,
> one of the tools I use is called "positive reinforcement". This training
> technique (and it is quite successful) used praise when the dog does
> something tight, and no feedback at all when the dog doesn't do what you
> want.
> The idea is that by ignoring undesirable behaviour and praising the dog
> whenever it comes up with a way to please the owner, the dog will tend to
> start doing that which gives it feedback, and will cease doing the
> undesirable stuff which gives it nothing at all.
>
> So, lets take what we have learned about simple psychology and apply it to
> photography.
> A person goes out and shoots a subject, any subject, and manages to hit on a
> decent picture. They post it to the internet and get back positive comments,
> comments that may be semi specific in relation to aspects of the image.
> So, the person starts looking for those aspects, since this is what garnered
> positive feedback.
> And next thing you know, they have a whole body of work of what is
> essentially the same picture.
> Take it from someone who has a whole body of work that is essentially the
> same picture, I know of what I speak.

Sounds like operant conditioning is the way to go.  Maybe the pdml can
pioneer a Skinner Box for photographers...?

:)
-c

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CDR Archive Transfer

[Mark C]

Just thought I'd share with the list a few comments about transferring 
images off CD's...


I have 547 CD's here with film scans on them, dating from 2000 to 2004. 
I just popped disk number 417 into the CD drive of my scanning computer. 
This is my second run at this - I spent several weeks copying disks last 
spring only to discover a subtle defect in my CDR drive meant that the 
copied images were messed up - the OS did not detect a problem and the 
images looked fine as thumbnails, but at full size they had many 
(hundreds) of small black blocks a few pixels high and maybe 50 to 100 
pixels long...


I replaced the drive but didn't get back to this till mid  October. Over 
the last six weeks I've left the computer on and have dropped a disc in 
whenever I am sitting here or even just around the house. It takes 5 
minutes to copy a good disk using xcopy, 11 minutes using xxcopy. Some 
disks take longer.


The advantage to xxcopy is that it will not stop on errors - it will 
chew through the disk and salvage any files that it can. Xcopy is fast 
but will just stop when it can't read part of the disk.


Loss rate? So far about 15 of the disks have been bad, almost all of 
those are one brand (Prime Peripherals) from 2000. Aside from those, 
I've only had a bad file or two here or there. Some time ago one my cats 
pushed a 100 CD stack off the desk (I guess I wasn't paying enough 
attention to her) and three of those disks cracked when the package fell 
and are unreadable.


I'm looking forward to getting these images onto a USB drive - I have 
just under 280 gigabytes transferred so far.


At this point the only casualty of this process (aside from a lot of my 
time) is the newest DVD drive in my main computer. Yesterday when one of 
the cracked CD's would not read in the scanning computer I put it into 
the main computer to see if that drive would do better. The drive spun 
up, made a sound like a bad washing machine entering the spin cycle, and 
then made an enormous CRACK that sounded like someone smacking a cane 
two handed overhead full swing against a table. The drive was totally 
jammed - even the paper clip in the little hole would not open it. I 
hopped out to an office supply store an bought a replacement - the old 
drive sounds like it is full of gravel. I think the cracked CD shattered 
into smithereens.


So - to try to contribute to the knowledge base -

-- With the exception of the Prime Peripherals brand, all of the CDR's I 
have have proven to be reliable. There is a small failure rate for 
individual files here and there, but otherwise they have been OK. All of 
these disk are at least 7 years old, some are over 10 years old. I've 
heard comments that CDR's more than 5  years old are not reliable. I'd 
say, not 100% reliable but more or less OK.


-- Command prompt Xcopy is by far the fastest copy methodlogy that I 
tried (this is a 32 bit WinXP machine). Xxcopy (freeware) is more 
thorough and can salvage files from bad disks (i.e. it dos not abort on 
the first read error) but is slower. (I did my first 200 CD's with 
xxcopy - that is 16 hours more copying time than xcopy. I use xcopy now, 
and revert to xxcopy if I see an error (requires actually reading the 
copy screens - something I don't like to do.)


OK - so now I am at disk #427 - since i started this post I fried some 
fish, set the table, made a salad, had dinner, did the dishes with my 
wife... all the time sneaking up here to copy another disk whenever 
possible. Copying disks is slow work... like posting...


MCC



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PESO - Preening

[frank theriault]

There's not much happening down by the Lake these days;  about the
only animals around are waterfowl (I saw a couple of grebes and a
bufflehead duck, but wasn't able to get a good shot of either) and
gulls.

However, I did get this swan with the low late afternoon sun behind him:

http://knarfdummyblog.blogspot.com/2011/11/preening.html

Hope you enjoy. Comments always welcome.

-- 
"Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."  -Henri Cartier-Bresson

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Brian Walters]

On Monday, November 28, 2011 8:18 PM, "Daniel J. Matyola"
 wrote:
> I still say that we should have two types of submissions:  PESOs
> (pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing)  and IFQ:  Images
> submitted for discussion and critiques.
> 


By all means give that a try but, I think a statement in a PESO noting
that "comments and suggestions are welcome" (or similar), should be
enough.  I'm can't understand why a statement like that shouldn't be
taken at face value.



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/




-- 


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Re: OT: Kindle Fire

[Keith Whaley]

Walter Hamler wrote:

Anyone out there using the Kindle Fire?  I ordered one today after
reading a review on Z-Net that highly touted it.

Walt



Hi Walt.

Yeah, but I can't tell you much about it.
I'm as green as can be on it. I'm only about 2 hours into having messed 
around with it.


It's up and running, but...I am NOT yet comfortable with it.

Keep my email address and check in from time to time. I'll report 
whatever I've discovered, but I haven't even begun to examine 1?10th of 
what it can do. Maybe 1/40th! 

.

It has already, and automatically, loaded all my books from my old, 
still active Kindle III. All of them! All I have to do is access them 
(almost instantly!) and start reading. Wow.

I'm going to really like this Fire!  

keith

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OT: Kindle Fire

[Walter Hamler]

Anyone out there using the Kindle Fire?  I ordered one today after
reading a review on Z-Net that highly touted it.

Walt

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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[steve harley]

on 2011-11-28 13:37 Tom C wrote

Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg



i like the patterns in that photo, wish i could see it bigger and explore the 
details — that's what photos like that invite me to do; if i were taking the 
photo i would have been frustrated trying to frame it; the choice you made 
seems okay, but what's above?


great time to visit — i bet the crowds were thin

a rant not directed at the photo or photographer:
i tried clicking to get a larger view, but it actually made it smaller, and 
only after first repeating the pop-over ad that i got when i first loaded the 
page; one or more annoying user experiences seem to happen every time i view a 
photo at photo.net lately



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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Daniel J. Matyola]

I still say that we should have two types of submissions:  PESOs
(pictures posted for enjoyment and sharing)  and IFQ:  Images
submitted for discussion and critiques.

Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM, William Robb
 wrote:
> On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote:
>>
>
>> 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
>> positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
>> excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
>> practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
>
> Well, yes and no. Only giving positive feedback can have exactly the
> opposite effect.
> Here's a metaphor.
> As you know, I take pride in my abilities to train dogs. As a dog trainer,
> one of the tools I use is called "positive reinforcement". This training
> technique (and it is quite successful) used praise when the dog does
> something tight, and no feedback at all when the dog doesn't do what you
> want.
> The idea is that by ignoring undesirable behaviour and praising the dog
> whenever it comes up with a way to please the owner, the dog will tend to
> start doing that which gives it feedback, and will cease doing the
> undesirable stuff which gives it nothing at all.
>
> So, lets take what we have learned about simple psychology and apply it to
> photography.
> A person goes out and shoots a subject, any subject, and manages to hit on a
> decent picture. They post it to the internet and get back positive comments,
> comments that may be semi specific in relation to aspects of the image.
> So, the person starts looking for those aspects, since this is what garnered
> positive feedback.
> And next thing you know, they have a whole body of work of what is
> essentially the same picture.
> Take it from someone who has a whole body of work that is essentially the
> same picture, I know of what I speak.
>
>> 8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
>> on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
>> or respond.
>
> But it isn't negative feedback, it's just no feedback at all (negative
> feedback would be, metaphorically speaking, a good solid jerk on the leash).
> So, your "negative feedback" becomes meaningless in the face of the positive
> motivation that comes from the gushers, and the person goes out and takes
> another picture of a pretty girl in front of a hunk of canvas, or another
> sunset, or another of the many, many cliches that are abused by
> photographers on a daily basis.
> And life goes on, and photography gets dumbed down a little bit more.
>
> Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies?
>
> --
>
> William Robb
>
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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[kwaller]

Very nice capture, great light!

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: "Tom C" 

Subject: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point



Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg



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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[William Robb]

On 28/11/2011 2:04 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

Stop being agreeable, but then I guess you can't help it, you're Canadian.


I'll try to make up for Frank's agree-ability.

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[William Robb]

On 28/11/2011 12:21 PM, Tom C wrote:





7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.


Well, yes and no. Only giving positive feedback can have exactly the 
opposite effect.

Here's a metaphor.
As you know, I take pride in my abilities to train dogs. As a dog 
trainer, one of the tools I use is called "positive reinforcement". This 
training technique (and it is quite successful) used praise when the dog 
does something tight, and no feedback at all when the dog doesn't do 
what you want.
The idea is that by ignoring undesirable behaviour and praising the dog 
whenever it comes up with a way to please the owner, the dog will tend 
to start doing that which gives it feedback, and will cease doing the 
undesirable stuff which gives it nothing at all.


So, lets take what we have learned about simple psychology and apply it 
to photography.
A person goes out and shoots a subject, any subject, and manages to hit 
on a decent picture. They post it to the internet and get back positive 
comments, comments that may be semi specific in relation to aspects of 
the image.
So, the person starts looking for those aspects, since this is what 
garnered positive feedback.
And next thing you know, they have a whole body of work of what is 
essentially the same picture.
Take it from someone who has a whole body of work that is essentially 
the same picture, I know of what I speak.



8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
or respond.


But it isn't negative feedback, it's just no feedback at all (negative 
feedback would be, metaphorically speaking, a good solid jerk on the 
leash). So, your "negative feedback" becomes meaningless in the face of 
the positive motivation that comes from the gushers, and the person goes 
out and takes another picture of a pretty girl in front of a hunk of 
canvas, or another sunset, or another of the many, many cliches that are 
abused by photographers on a daily basis.

And life goes on, and photography gets dumbed down a little bit more.

Did you know that every time I do a studio shoot a kitten dies?

--

William Robb

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Re: Can anyone work out what this is?

[Michael Beacom]

I vote for Vampire Trap.

Cheers
Mike



On Nov 28, 2011, at 6:25 PM, Bob W wrote:

>> I considered one of my photos of this for the upcoming PUG.  It's in a
>> rather out-of-the-way graveyard on the West Coast that we had a quick
>> look at last weekend.
>> 
>> I can't figure out what it is or what it was used for.  Given its shape
>> and surroundings I assume it has something to do with burials.  I seem
>> to remember that the rod sticking downwards protrudes below the base
>> (you can just see it in the centre of the near side).
>> 
>> http://www.multi.net.nz/cemetery-thing/
>> 
>> Any ideas?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
> 
> It's a vampire trap. Freshly-buried corpse, vampire steps on mound of earth,
> buried pressure plate activates spring. Whop! Big metal coffin-shaped trap
> catches vampire. 
> 
> B
> 
> 
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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[Tom C]

Thanks Bob, Jack & Dan.

Yes snow is a regular winter feature there. It definitely enhances the
photographic opportunities. Elevation at the rim is 8000+ feet. You
can definitely feel it, especially on the hike back up from the canyon
floor.

Lighting is also definitely better with the sun low in the sky. Midday
shots have little comparative contrast.

For you to get there Bob, you must turn left at Salt Lake City.

Tom C.

> Tom,
> I've been impressed by the natural bueaty of Zion,
> but you've captured a beautiful sunrise at Bryce.
> Now I've got to figure out how to get there.
> The snow is special.
> Is that a regular winter feature at Bryce?
> Regards,  Bob S.
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Tom C  wrote:
>> Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg

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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[Ann Sanfedele]

you must have a good camera :-)

Seems to me that with hoodoos such as these having some snow on them
really brings out the beauty.  I love Bryce, too.  Have very special 
memories from there and Zion.


ann

On 11/28/2011 15:37, Tom C wrote:

Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg



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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[Ann Sanfedele]

On 11/28/2011 17:29, David J Brooks wrote:

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:

Tom,
I've been impressed by the natural bueaty of Zion,
but you've captured a beautiful sunrise at Bryce.
Now I've got to figure out how to get there.


Turn left at Denver.:-)

Dave


Ooops... Now I have a new name for Chainsaw and typo king dave...
wrong way brooksie

ann


The snow is special.
Is that a regular winter feature at Bryce?
Regards,  Bob S.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Tom C  wrote:

Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg

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Re: BOSTON PDML.. plans

[Ann Sanfedele]

Well if the weather doesnt change we may want to!

JP would be great - yeah, I said that

ann


On 11/28/2011 16:46, Miserere wrote:

On 28 November 2011 15:29, David Parsons  wrote:

Cool, Saturday sounds good.

Whereabouts are we thinking?  Did someone say JP before?


Yes, we were all going to take a dip in the pond.


—M.

 \/\/o/\/\ -->  http://WorldOfMiserere.com

 http://EnticingTheLight.com
 A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment



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RE: Can anyone work out what this is?

[Bob W]

> I considered one of my photos of this for the upcoming PUG.  It's in a
> rather out-of-the-way graveyard on the West Coast that we had a quick
> look at last weekend.
> 
> I can't figure out what it is or what it was used for.  Given its shape
> and surroundings I assume it has something to do with burials.  I seem
> to remember that the rod sticking downwards protrudes below the base
> (you can just see it in the centre of the near side).
> 
> http://www.multi.net.nz/cemetery-thing/
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave

It's a vampire trap. Freshly-buried corpse, vampire steps on mound of earth,
buried pressure plate activates spring. Whop! Big metal coffin-shaped trap
catches vampire. 

B


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Re: BOSTON PDML.. plans

[Christine Nielsen]

Looking forward to it!

-c

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Miserere  wrote:
> On 28 November 2011 15:29, David Parsons  wrote:
>> Cool, Saturday sounds good.
>>
>> Whereabouts are we thinking?  Did someone say JP before?
>
> Yes, we were all going to take a dip in the pond.
>
>
>   —M.
>
>    \/\/o/\/\ --> http://WorldOfMiserere.com
>
>    http://EnticingTheLight.com
>    A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment
>
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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[David J Brooks]

Beautiful shot. The snow works great with the red rock

Dave

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Tom C  wrote:
> Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg
>
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-- 
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York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[David J Brooks]

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
> Tom,
> I've been impressed by the natural bueaty of Zion,
> but you've captured a beautiful sunrise at Bryce.
> Now I've got to figure out how to get there.

Turn left at Denver.:-)

Dave
> The snow is special.
> Is that a regular winter feature at Bryce?
> Regards,  Bob S.
>
> On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Tom C  wrote:
>> Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.
>>
>> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg
>>
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Re: OT: For anyone wanting lightroom 3.0

[steve harley]

on 2011-11-28 15:21 Collin Brendemuehl wrote

http://columbus.craigslist.org/pho/2725296524.html

I don't know this person, or if it is a good deal.
Thought it might be useful, though.


useful as instruction to the incautious ;?>



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OT: For anyone wanting lightroom 3.0

[Collin Brendemuehl]

http://columbus.craigslist.org/pho/2725296524.html

I don't know this person, or if it is a good deal.
Thought it might be useful, though.

Sincerely, 

Collin Brendemuehl 
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose" 
-- Jim Elliott 






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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[Daniel J. Matyola]

I love Bryce, but it is a difficult place to capture by camera.  You
have done that better than any image I have seen in quite a while.
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 3:37 PM, Tom C  wrote:
> Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg
>
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RE: GESO: Little River Rail Trail

[Brian Walters]

On Monday, November 28, 2011 7:05 PM, "knarftheria...@gmail.com"
 wrote:
> Well, I struggled to look at your gallery on my phone.
> 
> ;-)
> 
> A lovely set of photos they are, too, especially given the equipment used
> to capture them.
> 
> Little River;  wasn't there a band from there in the 80s?
> 


Not quite.  A different Little River:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_River_Band


There is still a band performing under that name but it doesn't include
any of the original members.



Cheers

Brian

++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/



> :-)
> 
> cheers,
> frank
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> 
> From: David Mann 
> Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
> Subject: GESO: Little River Rail Trail
> 
> Little River is the name of a small town on Banks Peninsula, about
> halfway between Christchurch and Akaroa.
> 
> There used to be a railway that ran from there to Christchurch city, but
> its use was discontinued in 1962.  Starting just a few years ago, the old
> railway is being converted into a trail which can be walked or biked.  
> This has been done in a few other parts of the country as well the most
> famous being the Central Otago Rail Trail which is about 150km long.
> 
> We went over to Little River for the weekend and while Janet was busy
> with a small conference on Saturday afternoon, I got on my bike and did
> the rail trail as far as Motukarara.  The trail does go further than this
> but it departs from the original railway line at that point, and that's
> as far as I'd planned to go.  It will eventually reach the outer
> Christchurch suburb of Hornby, where the railway used to end.
> 
> http://www.multi.net.nz/rail-trail/
> 
> These are all cellphone pics which I struggled to take.  It was bright
> and sunny and I could barely see anything on the screen of the phone so
> composition was largely done by guesswork.  I haven't touched them in
> Photoshop.
> 
> It was an enjoyable ride despite the conditions.  I'd been intending to
> do this trail for a long time but never got around to it.  It's an easy
> track with no hills and it seems to be well looked after and there's lots
> of birdlife at this time of year.  The only downside is that it's very
> exposed to the weather.  I rode it on a hot day and the wind came up
> while I was out there so I had a tough head wind all the way back.  Ran
> out of drink about 10 minutes from the finish so I'm glad I carried as
> much as I did.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave
-- 


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  or over the web


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Re: BOSTON PDML.. plans

[Miserere]

On 28 November 2011 15:29, David Parsons  wrote:
> Cool, Saturday sounds good.
>
> Whereabouts are we thinking?  Did someone say JP before?

Yes, we were all going to take a dip in the pond.


   —M.

\/\/o/\/\ --> http://WorldOfMiserere.com

http://EnticingTheLight.com
A Quest for Photographic Enlightenment

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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[Jack Davis]

Visited Bryce some years back, but it amounted to a flat light late AM/early PM 
stop. Your timing was much better and you certainly took advantage of it.
Nice!

Jack
- Original Message -
From: Tom C 
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List 
Cc: 
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 12:37 PM
Subject: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg

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Re: GESO: Little River Rail Trail

[Bob Sullivan]

Dave,
Rail trails are quite popular in the midwestern USA.
We have them in urban areas where commuter electric lines closed.
We have them in rural areas where branch lines were abandoned.
Railroads predated cars and trucks and serious roads.
After WWII, railroad traffic declined and trucks/automobiles took over.
By the 1960's railroads were looking to abandon 'branch lines' of 5-10
miles each.
Local communities often took them over as riding trails.
Pleaase note that a 2% grade is a big thing for a railroad,
so our trails are reasonably flat.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:42 PM, steve harley  wrote:
> on 2011-11-28 12:05 knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote
>>
>> A lovely set of photos they are, too, especially given the equipment used
to capture them.
>
> i enjoyed the photos too, an interesting armchair journey; would have liked
> to know/see more about that quarry
>>
>> Little River;  wasn't there a band from there in the 80s?
>
> indeed, and that's also the name of one of the last unspoiled estuaries in
> Maine, adjacent to which i spent much of my youth; the Kaituna picture
> reminds me of "my"  Little River quite a bit, and i would venture to
> contradict David's caption — there is usually much to see in such places, if
> little that stands out in the landscape
>
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Re: PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[Bob Sullivan]

Tom,
I've been impressed by the natural bueaty of Zion,
but you've captured a beautiful sunrise at Bryce.
Now I've got to figure out how to get there.
The snow is special.
Is that a regular winter feature at Bryce?
Regards,  Bob S.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Tom C  wrote:
> Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.
>
> http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg
>
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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[P. J. Alling]

On 11/28/2011 3:34 PM, Larry Colen wrote:

On Nov 28, 2011, at 12:33 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:


We're a very polite people (with the exception of Bill Robb).

;-)

(just kidding, Bill)

He's not a person?


I don't know, you should ask his wife.


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Re: GESO: Little River Rail Trail

[steve harley]

on 2011-11-28 12:05 knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote

A lovely set of photos they are, too, especially given the equipment used to 
capture them.


i enjoyed the photos too, an interesting armchair journey; would have liked to 
know/see more about that quarry


Little River;  wasn't there a band from there in the 80s?


indeed, and that's also the name of one of the last unspoiled estuaries in 
Maine, adjacent to which i spent much of my youth; the Kaituna picture reminds 
me of "my"  Little River quite a bit, and i would venture to contradict David's 
caption — there is usually much to see in such places, if little that stands 
out in the landscape


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PESO - Bryce Canyon Sunrise Point

[Tom C]

Taken on 11/24 at Bryce Canyon NP, shortly after sunrise.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14704478&size=lg

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Larry Colen]

On Nov 28, 2011, at 12:33 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:

> We're a very polite people (with the exception of Bill Robb).
> 
> ;-)
> 
> (just kidding, Bill)

He's not a person?

> 

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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

We're a very polite people (with the exception of Bill Robb).

;-)

(just kidding, Bill)

cheers,
frank 

--- Original Message ---

From: "P. J. Alling" 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism

Stop being agreeable, but then I guess you can't help it, you're Canadian.

On 11/28/2011 2:00 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
> I agree with Ann.
>
> Cheers,
> frank
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: Ann Sanfedele
> Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
> To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List"
> Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism
>
> Well put, Tom..
> Nice summing up of the whole bit
>
> ann
>
> On 11/28/2011 13:21, Tom C wrote:
>> Been out and about at Bryce and Zion National Parks over the weekend.
>> I may have one or two shots to display. :-)
>>
>> Here's my thoughts on this semi-annual topic:
>>
>> 1. If a person posts a picture they're inviting a response. Usually
>> they're expecting a positive response I believe, otherwise they likely
>> wouldn't have posted it.
>> 2. Having invited a response a poster must be prepared for a response
>> they did not expect, i.e., negative feedback or tips for improvement.
>> 3. There's nothing wrong with posting an image and getting an "ego
>> massage" out of it, especially if it's a praiseworthy image. We all
>> like to feel good about our photography.
>>
>> That being said:
>>
>> 4. Many images are offered for viewing that were intended more as a
>> show&   tell and sharing, a form of communication as opposed to an
>> example of photographic craft.
>> 5. It seems kudos are often given for these images and they often
>> receive the same adulation as images that meet a higher standard.
>> That's unfortunate because it, in essence lumps great shots and
>> otherwise into the same bucket. It's akin to pooling tips for
>> waiters/waitresses. Excellent service and poor service are rewarded
>> equally. That can have the tendency to make some with mediocre shots
>> believe they have a great image and it tends to have a diluting effect
>> on praise given to worthy images, especially if the same person is
>> giving the feedback.
>> 6. For criticism and critique to have validity one must take into
>> account the credentials of the one giving feedback, be it here, or any
>> of the numerous photo sharing sites. But credentials alone is not the
>> end all, because personal subjectivity always enters in. I've found on
>> other sites, that it appears some individuals have the tendency to
>> downgrade others images as a means to inflate their own egos.
>> Likewise, a beginner in photography can easily get excited about an
>> image that has little merit - or not realizing how little they know,
>> give negative feedback and advice.
>> 7. A negative critique that attacks the photographer as opposed to the
>> photograph serves no use. It's that kind of negative attack I've seen
>> from time to time on the list, that I find onerous whether it occurs
>> to myself or someone else. It's pointless, rude, and serves no purpose
>> other than to elevate the one giving the critique - in their own mind.
>>
>> Personally:
>>
>> 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
>> positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
>> excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
>> practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
>> 8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
>> on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
>> or respond.
>>
>> Tom C.
>>


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lengthily search.


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Re: BOSTON PDML.. plans

[David Parsons]

Cool, Saturday sounds good.

Whereabouts are we thinking?  Did someone say JP before?

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Ann Sanfedele  wrote:
> LOoks like the very best time to get together would be Saturday, Dec 10th in
> the afternoon -- Both my boston hostess and my Ipswich friend
> have doings on that day during the day so it would work best for me
> and I gather for you working stiffs.
>
> MARK has my cell phone number and we can start a little off list -list
>
> Would like to see youse guys I know already IRL and meet those I haven't
> yet met other than on line.
>
> I'm up for cheap/moderately priced yummy lunch schmoozing and
> and a walkabout... basically a visit.  Wish it didnt get dark so early.
>
> see ya soon!
>
> ann
>
>
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Re: K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today

[P. J. Alling]

Even at that price my depleted wallet tells me that I cannot afford it.

On 11/28/2011 2:00 PM, Darren Addy wrote:

About 15 minutes until the deal hits:
This will be the page:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0043M6F14?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

You'll notice the price has gone back up to $1199 prior to the deal.
The lowest percentage off has been 30% on lightning deals. If they do
that from the $1199 price that means you'll be able to get the K-5
body for $840. I'd expect a price close to that and not very many
available at that price.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Igor Roshchin  wrote:

Hi All,

K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today
(very soon).

I am not sure for how much, and how long it will last (some of those
deals are gone within literally first 1-3 seconds).
But I thought somebody on the list might appreciate it.

Cheers,

Igor

PS. "lightning deals" don't seem to work in Opera browser.


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Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a 
lengthily search.


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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[P. J. Alling]

Stop being agreeable, but then I guess you can't help it, you're Canadian.

On 11/28/2011 2:00 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:

I agree with Ann.

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Ann Sanfedele
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List"
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism

Well put, Tom..
Nice summing up of the whole bit

ann

On 11/28/2011 13:21, Tom C wrote:

Been out and about at Bryce and Zion National Parks over the weekend.
I may have one or two shots to display. :-)

Here's my thoughts on this semi-annual topic:

1. If a person posts a picture they're inviting a response. Usually
they're expecting a positive response I believe, otherwise they likely
wouldn't have posted it.
2. Having invited a response a poster must be prepared for a response
they did not expect, i.e., negative feedback or tips for improvement.
3. There's nothing wrong with posting an image and getting an "ego
massage" out of it, especially if it's a praiseworthy image. We all
like to feel good about our photography.

That being said:

4. Many images are offered for viewing that were intended more as a
show&   tell and sharing, a form of communication as opposed to an
example of photographic craft.
5. It seems kudos are often given for these images and they often
receive the same adulation as images that meet a higher standard.
That's unfortunate because it, in essence lumps great shots and
otherwise into the same bucket. It's akin to pooling tips for
waiters/waitresses. Excellent service and poor service are rewarded
equally. That can have the tendency to make some with mediocre shots
believe they have a great image and it tends to have a diluting effect
on praise given to worthy images, especially if the same person is
giving the feedback.
6. For criticism and critique to have validity one must take into
account the credentials of the one giving feedback, be it here, or any
of the numerous photo sharing sites. But credentials alone is not the
end all, because personal subjectivity always enters in. I've found on
other sites, that it appears some individuals have the tendency to
downgrade others images as a means to inflate their own egos.
Likewise, a beginner in photography can easily get excited about an
image that has little merit - or not realizing how little they know,
give negative feedback and advice.
7. A negative critique that attacks the photographer as opposed to the
photograph serves no use. It's that kind of negative attack I've seen
from time to time on the list, that I find onerous whether it occurs
to myself or someone else. It's pointless, rude, and serves no purpose
other than to elevate the one giving the critique - in their own mind.

Personally:

7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
or respond.

Tom C.




--
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lengthily search.


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Re: Pentax K-5 today only for $999

[Larry Colen, l...@red4est.com (From Droid)]

I bought a couple of things from Abe's, including my fa31 and had no problems.  
That was about 4 years ago though.

"P. J. Alling"  wrote:

>Abe's is one of the last of the old fashioned "Bait & Switch" houses, 
>which should be apparent since according to them Maine is somewhere in 
>Brooklyn NY.
>
>On 11/28/2011 11:33 AM, Darren Addy wrote:
>> Abe's of Maine has it at $998 shipped (and in stock). Says "after
>$300
>> instant rebate".
>> Have heard mixed reactions to Abe's however.
>>
>> Darren Addy
>> Kearney, Nebraska
>>
>
>
>-- 
>Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to
>avoid a lengthily search.
>
>
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Re: GESO - Occupy Toronto: The Final Days

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Yeah, we only have bottles nowadays.

:-)

cheers,
frank 


--- Original Message ---

From: John Sessoms 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: GESO - Occupy Toronto: The Final Days

From: frank theriault

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 2:29 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
>
>
>> They always hold them in some place that's on everyone's "Gee I'd sure like
>> to visit that place someday" list.
> 
>
> You've never been to Toronto, have you John?

Not since they did away with the draft.

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Re: GESO - Occupy Toronto: The Final Days

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Yeah, we only have bottles nowadays.

;-)

cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: John Sessoms 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: GESO - Occupy Toronto: The Final Days

From: frank theriault

> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 2:29 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:
>
>
>> They always hold them in some place that's on everyone's "Gee I'd sure like
>> to visit that place someday" list.
> 
>
> You've never been to Toronto, have you John?

Not since they did away with the draft.

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Re: GESO - Occupy Toronto: The Final Days

[John Sessoms]

From: frank theriault


On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 2:29 PM, John Sessoms  wrote:



They always hold them in some place that's on everyone's "Gee I'd sure like
to visit that place someday" list.



You've never been to Toronto, have you John?


Not since they did away with the draft.

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Re: K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today

[steve harley]

on 2011-11-28 12:15 Darren Addy wrote

Lightning deal price is $979 for the next 60 minutes or until gone. Big whoopie.


gone

i'm finding myself tempted by the NEX-C3 with a k-mount adapter; my macro-tak 
50/4 might be a great



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Re: K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today

[Darren Addy]

All available were "in carts" within 25 seconds. You can get on a
"Waiting List" for any that return to availability.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 1:15 PM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> Lightning deal price is $979 for the next 60 minutes or until gone. Big 
> whoopie.
>
> Darren Addy
> Kearney, Nebraska
>

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Re: K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today

[Darren Addy]

Lightning deal price is $979 for the next 60 minutes or until gone. Big whoopie.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska

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RE: GESO: Little River Rail Trail

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Well, I struggled to look at your gallery on my phone.

;-)

A lovely set of photos they are, too, especially given the equipment used to 
capture them.

Little River;  wasn't there a band from there in the 80s?

:-)

cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: David Mann 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: GESO: Little River Rail Trail

Little River is the name of a small town on Banks Peninsula, about halfway 
between Christchurch and Akaroa.

There used to be a railway that ran from there to Christchurch city, but its 
use was discontinued in 1962.  Starting just a few years ago, the old railway 
is being converted into a trail which can be walked or biked.   This has been 
done in a few other parts of the country as well the most famous being the 
Central Otago Rail Trail which is about 150km long.

We went over to Little River for the weekend and while Janet was busy with a 
small conference on Saturday afternoon, I got on my bike and did the rail trail 
as far as Motukarara.  The trail does go further than this but it departs from 
the original railway line at that point, and that's as far as I'd planned to 
go.  It will eventually reach the outer Christchurch suburb of Hornby, where 
the railway used to end.

http://www.multi.net.nz/rail-trail/

These are all cellphone pics which I struggled to take.  It was bright and 
sunny and I could barely see anything on the screen of the phone so composition 
was largely done by guesswork.  I haven't touched them in Photoshop.

It was an enjoyable ride despite the conditions.  I'd been intending to do this 
trail for a long time but never got around to it.  It's an easy track with no 
hills and it seems to be well looked after and there's lots of birdlife at this 
time of year.  The only downside is that it's very exposed to the weather.  I 
rode it on a hot day and the wind came up while I was out there so I had a 
tough head wind all the way back.  Ran out of drink about 10 minutes from the 
finish so I'm glad I carried as much as I did.

Cheers,
Dave
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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

I agree with Ann.

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Ann Sanfedele 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism

Well put, Tom..
Nice summing up of the whole bit

ann

On 11/28/2011 13:21, Tom C wrote:
> Been out and about at Bryce and Zion National Parks over the weekend.
> I may have one or two shots to display. :-)
>
> Here's my thoughts on this semi-annual topic:
>
> 1. If a person posts a picture they're inviting a response. Usually
> they're expecting a positive response I believe, otherwise they likely
> wouldn't have posted it.
> 2. Having invited a response a poster must be prepared for a response
> they did not expect, i.e., negative feedback or tips for improvement.
> 3. There's nothing wrong with posting an image and getting an "ego
> massage" out of it, especially if it's a praiseworthy image. We all
> like to feel good about our photography.
>
> That being said:
>
> 4. Many images are offered for viewing that were intended more as a
> show&  tell and sharing, a form of communication as opposed to an
> example of photographic craft.
> 5. It seems kudos are often given for these images and they often
> receive the same adulation as images that meet a higher standard.
> That's unfortunate because it, in essence lumps great shots and
> otherwise into the same bucket. It's akin to pooling tips for
> waiters/waitresses. Excellent service and poor service are rewarded
> equally. That can have the tendency to make some with mediocre shots
> believe they have a great image and it tends to have a diluting effect
> on praise given to worthy images, especially if the same person is
> giving the feedback.
> 6. For criticism and critique to have validity one must take into
> account the credentials of the one giving feedback, be it here, or any
> of the numerous photo sharing sites. But credentials alone is not the
> end all, because personal subjectivity always enters in. I've found on
> other sites, that it appears some individuals have the tendency to
> downgrade others images as a means to inflate their own egos.
> Likewise, a beginner in photography can easily get excited about an
> image that has little merit - or not realizing how little they know,
> give negative feedback and advice.
> 7. A negative critique that attacks the photographer as opposed to the
> photograph serves no use. It's that kind of negative attack I've seen
> from time to time on the list, that I find onerous whether it occurs
> to myself or someone else. It's pointless, rude, and serves no purpose
> other than to elevate the one giving the critique - in their own mind.
>
> Personally:
>
> 7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
> positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
> excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
> practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
> 8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
> on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
> or respond.
>
> Tom C.
>

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Re: K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today

[Darren Addy]

About 15 minutes until the deal hits:
This will be the page:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0043M6F14?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

You'll notice the price has gone back up to $1199 prior to the deal.
The lowest percentage off has been 30% on lightning deals. If they do
that from the $1199 price that means you'll be able to get the K-5
body for $840. I'd expect a price close to that and not very many
available at that price.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Igor Roshchin  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today
> (very soon).
>
> I am not sure for how much, and how long it will last (some of those
> deals are gone within literally first 1-3 seconds).
> But I thought somebody on the list might appreciate it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Igor
>
> PS. "lightning deals" don't seem to work in Opera browser.
>
>
> --
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BOSTON PDML.. plans

[Ann Sanfedele]

LOoks like the very best time to get together would be Saturday, Dec 
10th in the afternoon -- Both my boston hostess and my Ipswich friend

have doings on that day during the day so it would work best for me
and I gather for you working stiffs.

MARK has my cell phone number and we can start a little off list -list

Would like to see youse guys I know already IRL and meet those I haven't
yet met other than on line.

I'm up for cheap/moderately priced yummy lunch schmoozing and
and a walkabout... basically a visit.  Wish it didnt get dark so early.

see ya soon!

ann


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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Ann Sanfedele]

Well put, Tom..
Nice summing up of the whole bit

ann

On 11/28/2011 13:21, Tom C wrote:

Been out and about at Bryce and Zion National Parks over the weekend.
I may have one or two shots to display. :-)

Here's my thoughts on this semi-annual topic:

1. If a person posts a picture they're inviting a response. Usually
they're expecting a positive response I believe, otherwise they likely
wouldn't have posted it.
2. Having invited a response a poster must be prepared for a response
they did not expect, i.e., negative feedback or tips for improvement.
3. There's nothing wrong with posting an image and getting an "ego
massage" out of it, especially if it's a praiseworthy image. We all
like to feel good about our photography.

That being said:

4. Many images are offered for viewing that were intended more as a
show&  tell and sharing, a form of communication as opposed to an
example of photographic craft.
5. It seems kudos are often given for these images and they often
receive the same adulation as images that meet a higher standard.
That's unfortunate because it, in essence lumps great shots and
otherwise into the same bucket. It's akin to pooling tips for
waiters/waitresses. Excellent service and poor service are rewarded
equally. That can have the tendency to make some with mediocre shots
believe they have a great image and it tends to have a diluting effect
on praise given to worthy images, especially if the same person is
giving the feedback.
6. For criticism and critique to have validity one must take into
account the credentials of the one giving feedback, be it here, or any
of the numerous photo sharing sites. But credentials alone is not the
end all, because personal subjectivity always enters in. I've found on
other sites, that it appears some individuals have the tendency to
downgrade others images as a means to inflate their own egos.
Likewise, a beginner in photography can easily get excited about an
image that has little merit - or not realizing how little they know,
give negative feedback and advice.
7. A negative critique that attacks the photographer as opposed to the
photograph serves no use. It's that kind of negative attack I've seen
from time to time on the list, that I find onerous whether it occurs
to myself or someone else. It's pointless, rude, and serves no purpose
other than to elevate the one giving the critique - in their own mind.

Personally:

7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
or respond.

Tom C.



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Re: Giving and taking criticism

[Tom C]

Been out and about at Bryce and Zion National Parks over the weekend.
I may have one or two shots to display. :-)

Here's my thoughts on this semi-annual topic:

1. If a person posts a picture they're inviting a response. Usually
they're expecting a positive response I believe, otherwise they likely
wouldn't have posted it.
2. Having invited a response a poster must be prepared for a response
they did not expect, i.e., negative feedback or tips for improvement.
3. There's nothing wrong with posting an image and getting an "ego
massage" out of it, especially if it's a praiseworthy image. We all
like to feel good about our photography.

That being said:

4. Many images are offered for viewing that were intended more as a
show & tell and sharing, a form of communication as opposed to an
example of photographic craft.
5. It seems kudos are often given for these images and they often
receive the same adulation as images that meet a higher standard.
That's unfortunate because it, in essence lumps great shots and
otherwise into the same bucket. It's akin to pooling tips for
waiters/waitresses. Excellent service and poor service are rewarded
equally. That can have the tendency to make some with mediocre shots
believe they have a great image and it tends to have a diluting effect
on praise given to worthy images, especially if the same person is
giving the feedback.
6. For criticism and critique to have validity one must take into
account the credentials of the one giving feedback, be it here, or any
of the numerous photo sharing sites. But credentials alone is not the
end all, because personal subjectivity always enters in. I've found on
other sites, that it appears some individuals have the tendency to
downgrade others images as a means to inflate their own egos.
Likewise, a beginner in photography can easily get excited about an
image that has little merit - or not realizing how little they know,
give negative feedback and advice.
7. A negative critique that attacks the photographer as opposed to the
photograph serves no use. It's that kind of negative attack I've seen
from time to time on the list, that I find onerous whether it occurs
to myself or someone else. It's pointless, rude, and serves no purpose
other than to elevate the one giving the critique - in their own mind.

Personally:

7. I generally give only positive feedback and feel that praising the
positive is the best way of promoting improvement and continued
excellence. The photographer can learn the basics from a book and with
practice, so I feel no need to give instruction.
8. Take a 'no comment' as either negative feedback or lack of interest
on my part. If not that, then it means I was simply too busy too look
or respond.

Tom C.

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Re: K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today

[Igor Roshchin]

And B&H has it for $999.95 until November 29.

Igor


> From s...@trantor.komkon.org Mon Nov 28 13:13:21 2011
> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2011 13:13:11 -0500 (EST)
> From: Igor Roshchin 
> To: PDML@pdml.net
> Subject: K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today
> (very soon).
>
> I am not sure for how much, and how long it will last (some of those
> deals are gone within literally first 1-3 seconds).
> But I thought somebody on the list might appreciate it.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Igor
>
> PS. "lightning deals" don't seem to work in Opera browser.
>

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K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today

[Igor Roshchin]

Hi All,

K-5 will be among Amazon "Lightning Deals" at 11:15 am PST today
(very soon).

I am not sure for how much, and how long it will last (some of those
deals are gone within literally first 1-3 seconds).
But I thought somebody on the list might appreciate it.

Cheers,

Igor

PS. "lightning deals" don't seem to work in Opera browser.


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Re: PESO: Watching TV

[Daniel J. Matyola]

Thanks, Bob.  As I said, it took a bit of time to get a rapt
expression at the same time as the TV screen came out well in the
image.

Dan
Dan Matyola
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola



On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 12:38 AM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
> Dan,
> That's a good shot.  His expression is very good.
> And the image on the TV is visible, not wierd.
> Good work.
> Regards,  Bob S.
>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 8:57 PM, Daniel J. Matyola  
> wrote:
>> http://blogs.delphiforums.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?nav=main&webtag=djm1963&entry=162
>>
>> Comments, Suggestions and Criticisms are welcome.
>>
>> Dan Matyola
>> http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/danieljmatyola
>>
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RE: Pentax K-5 today only for $999

[J.C. O'Connell]

don't recall, I wasn't seriously shopping but they were new

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-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
steve harley
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 12:14 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Pentax K-5 today only for $999


on 2011-11-28 10:09 J.C. O'Connell wrote
> there are several ebay vendors that have been selling K-5 bodies for 
> around $1000 recently. Nothing new.

with warranty?

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RE: I got blogged, Head On

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Excellent photos (I'd expect no less) very good interview.

Great stuff! Contracts.

Cheers,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Derby Chang 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: I got blogged, Head On



http://headon.com.au/node/7495

OK, full disclosure. The blog editor is a good friend of mine. She had 
been gently suggesting we do this for about 6 months, but we only just 
got around to it now. Coincidentally, I'd just finished a Blurb book, 
which she, nicely, links to at the end of the post.

Rather chuffed to be in the good company of the place.


-- 

der...@iinet.net.au
http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc



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Re: Pentax K-5 today only for $999

[steve harley]

on 2011-11-28 10:09 J.C. O'Connell wrote

there are several ebay vendors that have been selling K-5
bodies for around $1000 recently. Nothing new.


with warranty?

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Re: Pentax K-5 today only for $999

[P. J. Alling]

Abe's is one of the last of the old fashioned "Bait & Switch" houses, 
which should be apparent since according to them Maine is somewhere in 
Brooklyn NY.


On 11/28/2011 11:33 AM, Darren Addy wrote:

Abe's of Maine has it at $998 shipped (and in stock). Says "after $300
instant rebate".
Have heard mixed reactions to Abe's however.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska




--
Don't lose heart!  They might want to cut it out, and they'll want to avoid a 
lengthily search.


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RE: Pentax K-5 today only for $999

[J.C. O'Connell]

there are several ebay vendors that have been selling K-5 
bodies for around $1000 recently. Nothing new.

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-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of
steve harley
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 11:19 AM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Pentax K-5 today only for $999


on 2011-11-28 05:48 Miserere wrote
> Just wanted to let you know of today's Cyber Monday deal on the K-5: 
> $999.99 body only.

when the Amazon deal was publicized on the 25th



i started feeling tempted, however with so many other vendors piling on, one

has to wonder whether the price will drop overall soon ...

> Amazon:
> http://amzn.to/sDLkZ2 ($999 from 14:15 ET onwards I hear; priced at 
> $1,050 right now)

beware that the $1050 price is through a little-known Amazon affiliate; as
of 
last night the Amazon-fulfilled deal was slated to appear around noon
mountain time

> Adorama ($999.99 *right now*):
> http://bit.ly/s5WuEc
>
> B&H only has it for $1,139 as of 7:50 ET; I don't know if they'll have 
> it on sale later in the day or not: http://bhpho.to/tkp4ga

now it's $1000

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Re: Semi OT a painting - suggestions needed

[P. J. Alling]

I always wondered how curators came up with those excruciating titles...

On 11/28/2011 2:14 AM, David Mann wrote:

On Nov 28, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:


http://annsan.smugmug.com/Other/Things-Im-selling-directly-Not/6280507_84bVv7/1/1586846296_B2dw4FQ/Large

Not mine -- rather, not my art work, but i own it.

I like this very much but put it on ebay and have noit had a glance
Wondering why - anyone got some good keyword ideas ?  Not sure I have the right 
genre - I just don't know this stuff anymore.

I'm thinking I should have added "new age"

http://www.mit.edu/~ruchill/lazycurator.html

Cheers,
Dave





--
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lengthily search.


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Re: OT, Underwater nudes

[steve harley]

on 2011-11-28 07:44 knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote

Cool!

I discovered that the Undercurrent cover photo was by Toni Frissell, but I 
didn't know much about her until I read her short bio in the wikipedia link you 
provided. Thanks!


yeah, i remembered seeing that image, but not where, and i have to say learning 
about Toni Frissell is the real win in this thread


i found some of Alberich's photos very elegant, and most are interesting; 
clearly that is a technically demanding style, and i can forgive the homage to 
Frissell (but not to Geddes)


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Re: Pentax K-5 today only for $999

[steve harley]

on 2011-11-28 09:33 Darren Addy wrote

Abe's of Maine has it at $998 shipped (and in stock). Says "after $300
instant rebate".
Have heard mixed reactions to Abe's however.


yeah, more proof of the pile-on; but i never choose Abe's over Amazon or B&H 
unless there was a large price gap


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Re: Pentax K-5 today only for $999

[David Parsons]

Yeah, I've heard enough shady things that I'd never seriously consider
buying from them.

>From what I've read, they used to be reputable and actually based in
Maine before a NYC company bought the name.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 11:33 AM, Darren Addy  wrote:
> Abe's of Maine has it at $998 shipped (and in stock). Says "after $300
> instant rebate".
> Have heard mixed reactions to Abe's however.
>
> Darren Addy
> Kearney, Nebraska
>
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Re: Pentax K-5 today only for $999

[Darren Addy]

Abe's of Maine has it at $998 shipped (and in stock). Says "after $300
instant rebate".
Have heard mixed reactions to Abe's however.

Darren Addy
Kearney, Nebraska

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Re: I got blogged, Head On

[Bob Sullivan]

Derby,
Congratulations.  It's a nice write-up.
Does your wife let you go about taking pictures of strangers?
Regards,  Bob S.

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 12:41 AM, Derby Chang  wrote:
>
>
> http://headon.com.au/node/7495
>
> OK, full disclosure. The blog editor is a good friend of mine. She had been
> gently suggesting we do this for about 6 months, but we only just got around
> to it now. Coincidentally, I'd just finished a Blurb book, which she,
> nicely, links to at the end of the post.
>
> Rather chuffed to be in the good company of the place.
>
>
> --
>
> der...@iinet.net.au
> http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc
>
>
>
> --
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> PDML@pdml.net
> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and
> follow the directions.
>

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Re: Semi OT a painting - suggestions needed

[Darren Addy]

If you hold down the shift key and reload the results page from Dave's
link you get some good ones.
Perhaps we have some photographic themes for the future?

Parsing Illusion: 15 Years of Complacency

Mediating Dissent: Deconstructing Damage

Collective Illusion: 15 Years of Urban Experience

Archaeological Dissent: Post-Painterly Art of Urban Experience

For Love of Dreams: Deconstructing the Status Quo

An Overwhelming Banality: The Dysfunction of the Local

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Re: Semi OT a painting - suggestions needed

[Ann Sanfedele]

On 11/28/2011 02:14, David Mann wrote:

On Nov 28, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Ann Sanfedele wrote:


http://annsan.smugmug.com/Other/Things-Im-selling-directly-Not/6280507_84bVv7/1/1586846296_B2dw4FQ/Large

Not mine -- rather, not my art work, but i own it.

I like this very much but put it on ebay and have noit had a glance
Wondering why - anyone got some good keyword ideas ?  Not sure I have the right 
genre - I just don't know this stuff anymore.

I'm thinking I should have added "new age"


http://www.mit.edu/~ruchill/lazycurator.html

Cheers,
Dave



That's mean, Dave LOL

ann

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Re: OT, Underwater nudes

[knarftheria...@gmail.com]

Cool!

I discovered that the Undercurrent cover photo was by Toni Frissell, but I 
didn't know much about her until I read her short bio in the wikipedia link you 
provided. Thanks!

Cheers ,
frank

--- Original Message ---

From: Derby Chang 
Sent: November 28, 2011 11/28/11
To: "Pentax-Discuss Mail List" 
Subject: Re: OT, Underwater nudes

Agree with Frank about the Anne Geddes thing. Ugh.

Howard Schatz does it a bit better, I think

http://www.howardschatz.com/portfolio.php?galleryID=21

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toni_Frissell




On 28/11/2011 4:10 PM, knarftheria...@gmail.com wrote:
> He loses points for the baby in the pumpkin. Way too Geddes for me (sorry but 
> I really dislike her work).
>
> Then I saw the photo of the lady in the long robe, horizontal, face up, under 
> the surface of the water, blowing bubbles. It was called.Opheliac or 
> something like that. Look familiar? Google "Bill Evans Jim Hall 
> Undercurrents". Look at the album cover. Hmmm...
>
> It was a brilliant album with an amazing cover photo, but this guy totally 
> copied it. Or was he "inspired by it"?
>
> Nah. He copied it.
>
> Then when I tried to look at your favourite that you linked to I was told 
> that some "safe filter" was on and that I'd have to sign in.
>
>
> Strike three. He's out.
>
> I'm tired and I'm going to bed now before I get more cranky.
>
> :-)
>
> cheers,
>
> frank
>
> --- Original Message ---
>
> From: Larry Colen
> Sent: November 27, 2011 11/27/11
> To: "Pentax-Discuss List"
> Subject: OT, Underwater nudes
>
> I don't often find a genre of photography that is new to me.  I stumbled
> across a link to one of his photos on someone else's flickr feed, and
> was impressed by his work on several levels.  Probably NSFW, mostly
> "artistic nudes". In other words you probably wouldn't see his stuff at
> work, unless you worked in an art gallery
>
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/alberich/
>
> One I like in particular:
> www.flickr.com/photos/alberich/6055570740/'


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der...@iinet.net.au
http://members.iinet.net.au/~derbyc



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Re: Peso Mailbox

[David J Brooks]

On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 5:32 PM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
> Mighty big shotgun...

Big geese here.


>
> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 9:56 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:14 AM, Bob Sullivan  wrote:
>>> Dave,
>>> What is that?  I can't identify the original object converted to a mailbox.
>>> Regards,  Bob S.
>>
>> Its a shot gun shell, what it was before i have no idea.
>>
>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 7:59 AM, David J Brooks  wrote:
 One of the categories in the fair contest is mailbox's. I managed to
 get several in the early 00's that the judges liked but it very hard
 to find something interesting and out of the ordinary, until
 yesterday:

 http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=14696032

 I know its not the best back ground but it was one of the best angles
 to show the box.

 Dave

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>> York Region, Ontario, Canada
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GESO: Little River Rail Trail

[David Mann]

Little River is the name of a small town on Banks Peninsula, about halfway 
between Christchurch and Akaroa.

There used to be a railway that ran from there to Christchurch city, but its 
use was discontinued in 1962.  Starting just a few years ago, the old railway 
is being converted into a trail which can be walked or biked.   This has been 
done in a few other parts of the country as well the most famous being the 
Central Otago Rail Trail which is about 150km long.

We went over to Little River for the weekend and while Janet was busy with a 
small conference on Saturday afternoon, I got on my bike and did the rail trail 
as far as Motukarara.  The trail does go further than this but it departs from 
the original railway line at that point, and that's as far as I'd planned to 
go.  It will eventually reach the outer Christchurch suburb of Hornby, where 
the railway used to end.

http://www.multi.net.nz/rail-trail/

These are all cellphone pics which I struggled to take.  It was bright and 
sunny and I could barely see anything on the screen of the phone so composition 
was largely done by guesswork.  I haven't touched them in Photoshop.

It was an enjoyable ride despite the conditions.  I'd been intending to do this 
trail for a long time but never got around to it.  It's an easy track with no 
hills and it seems to be well looked after and there's lots of birdlife at this 
time of year.  The only downside is that it's very exposed to the weather.  I 
rode it on a hot day and the wind came up while I was out there so I had a 
tough head wind all the way back.  Ran out of drink about 10 minutes from the 
finish so I'm glad I carried as much as I did.

Cheers,
Dave
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