Re: Acoustic Photography, Was Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
I own a Pentax Stereo adapter so can i join the acoustic photography group? Peter Manchester, England - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
A scroll of mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 13 Feb 2001 15:15:54 EST Read it? y >Which might break some folks of their habit of shooting 98% horizontal shots. I'll tell ya something: I played with a friends F5 for a while (we actually swapped cameras during a shoot as I'd loaded my last roll of Astia and he wanted one and we were both using 80-200/f2.8s)[1], a vertical release shutter is just magic. When you've used one and it ain't there anymore, you really miss it. dave [1] funnily enough, the Z-1p with FA*80-200/f2.8 seemed to weigh about as much as the F5 with nikon 80-200/f2.8. That Pentax lens is *HEAVY*. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
A scroll of mail from [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:43:24 EST Read it? y >But every shooter hears their own shutter. And how does that affect concert >musicians in full bore rehearsal music? While it may be a gaucherie to shoot >during the actual concert, really *serious* musicians, unlike prissy golfers >who pray that noisy jets detour while they are shooting, usually only hear >their own instrument and the ambient cacophony of the orchestra itself. >Had you commented on flash disturbance or motor advance noise during >rehearsal/concerts I would agree, but even utterly quiet shutters sound >*LOUD* to the shooter. It may not affect the performer. I perform myself and I'm quite capable of tuning out any number of distractions. Even drummers, sometimes (I play at 'get up and play' nights and I've had my share of heavy metal drummers who reckon they can play with a folkie. :( ) I'm not worried about the performer, but the *audience* is there to hear the man play, not hear or see me take pictures. In this particular venue, it's like you're sitting around his chair in his living room as he plays lullabies to his children. It's incredibly intimate. The amplification failed at one point and we didn't notice, it was that quiet. dave - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Acoustic Photography, Was Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Your no-flash (presumption on my part) film preference when taking these pictures? Otis Wright John Edwin Mason wrote: > Sorry, Mafud, but you're wrong on this, as Rob has > pointed out. > > I'm one of those "serious musicians." It's not my > living, but I'm a member of the local symphony and a > freelancer who plays 2 to 4 musicals a year. When > rehearsing and performing, we musicians are very aware > of our total aural environment. > > Of course we're most focused on what we ourselves and > our colleagues are doing, but we're also aware of how > the audience is responding, for better or worse > (silence is good in classical settings; shuffling in > seats is bad), and whatever else is going on in the > hall. > > For the last several years I've been taking photos of > the musicians that I play with and musicians that I > know, in rehearsal and in concert. I've learned that > noises such as shutters, the zip-zip of autofocus, and > the whir of auto advance and auto rewind are very > distracting. > > One learns how not to cause problems, mostly by being > in every way as invisible and inaudible as possible. > > I've found that when shooting acoustic jazz and > classical music, my 5N is going to cause problems > because it's too noisy in every aspect of its > operation and its antiquated autofocus is going to > hunt (zip-zip-zip-zip-zip) in even moderately low > light. (Flash and autofocus assist, even infrared, > are utterly out of the question. Imagine how > distracting a flashing red light on the camera would > be.) > > So I rely on my K1000 and KX (when I need long lenses) > and old Contax rangefinder (when I don't). > > Here's hoping that the new MZ-S beats the competition > in noise suppression, autofocus capability, and price. > > Best, John > > On 13 Feb 2001, at 9:43, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >While it may be a gaucherie to shoot > > during the actual concert, really *serious* > >musicians, unlike prissy golfers who > > pray that noisy jets detour while they are shooting, > >usually only hear their own > > instrument and the ambient cacophony of the > orchestra >itself. Had you commented > > on flash disturbance or motor advance noise during > >rehearsal/concerts I would > > agree, but even utterly quiet shutters sound *LOUD* > >to the shooter. > > To which Rob said: > >Can't say I and in agreement here. > > = > John Edwin Mason > Charlottesville, Virginia > Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Alt Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Acoustic Photography, Was Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On 14 Feb 2001, at 10:21, John Francis wrote: > Standing at the back of the club with a 300/2.8 isn't inconspicuous, > but at least that way shutter noise isn't a problem. I've found that > using the 50/1.4 gets me too close to be really comfortable, although > those extra two stops are really nice under typical club lighting. The > ideal lens would be an 85/1.4, but I don't own one of those (yet ...) That's why God er.. um.. Pentax produced the A*135f1.8, the best concert lens.. Never had enough room to use the 300f2.8 :-) Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 Fax +61-2-9554-9259 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: Acoustic Photography, Was Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
John Edwin Mason wrote: > > One learns how not to cause problems, mostly by being > in every way as invisible and inaudible as possible. > > I've found that when shooting acoustic jazz and > classical music, my 5N is going to cause problems > because it's too noisy in every aspect of its > operation and its antiquated autofocus is going to > hunt (zip-zip-zip-zip-zip) in even moderately low > light. (Flash and autofocus assist, even infrared, > are utterly out of the question. Imagine how > distracting a flashing red light on the camera would > be.) I've had quite some success at a local folk venue, even with such notoriously nervous performers as June Tabor & Martin Carthy (in fact I'm going back there tonight to see Waterson: Carthy; I don't know if I'll be allowed to take photographs, but I'm hoping). Trying to be *too* inconspicuous can sometimes be counter-productive; move normally, if you must move. Standing at the back of the club with a 300/2.8 isn't inconspicuous, but at least that way shutter noise isn't a problem. I've found that using the 50/1.4 gets me too close to be really comfortable, although those extra two stops are really nice under typical club lighting. The ideal lens would be an 85/1.4, but I don't own one of those (yet ...) -- John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Silicon Graphics, Inc. (650)933-82952011 N. Shoreline Blvd. MS 43U-991 (650)932-0828 (Fax) Mountain View, CA 94043-1389 Hello. My name is Darth Vader. I am your father. Prepare to die. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>You seem to be taking things far too litteral. I'm not included in any >inner circles not worked as consultant. As Roland has pointed out, I'm >refering to the wishes and wants from Pentax customer base over the years. >From this mailing list and similar in Japan. There are endless posts about >what people wanted in a camera and what crystalized out was pretty much >like the MZ-S; hence I feel we have been heard. Since I have personally >participated quite actively in these discussions I feel I've been heard as >well. Thats it. > >Pål I guess my wish for a simple glass eyepiece is not going to happen then, because I was off the list for 2 years. 8-( regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
In a message dated 2/13/01 9:33:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I was made well aware of my presence after a snide glance from the choir-master of a large (100+) choir after made a few shots with the LX sans winder/motor a the peak of a crescendo where I thought it couldn't possibly be heard. >> He, like a predator, probably noticed your movement. It is unlikely he heard your shutter. If you were shooting verticals sans winder, your elbow swinging awkwardly over your LX would be a terrible distraction, as any photographer shooting elbow high looks oddly uncomfortable to onlookers. The vertical release/booster for the MZ-S is probably a lot quieter than an LX or Motor "A" in full howl. *TEST: Turn on some soft classical music. Set the self-timer on your body. Take the lens off. Release the shutter and look at the blinking red light (if any) as the shutter trips. Set the timer again, but this time, turn your back to the camera. The first shot will be louder than the second. Lastly, play some loud Jazz/Country/Soul music with lots of bass. You won't hear a thing. The only reason you'll be conscious of any possible shutter noise is when the blinking red light stops. Mafud [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Tom wrote: >I'm asking Pal, who by all accounts appears to be > PERSONALLY included in Pentax's inner circle, for the facts to back up the > claims he makes.Was he formally included in a marketing survey/research > regarding features of future Pentax products? Does he think HIS input was > factored into the design of the MZ-S. Those are fairly big claims to make, > and is pretty much what I'm getting from his statements. You seem to be taking things far too litteral. I'm not included in any inner circles not worked as consultant. As Roland has pointed out, I'm refering to the wishes and wants from Pentax customer base over the years. From this mailing list and similar in Japan. There are endless posts about what people wanted in a camera and what crystalized out was pretty much like the MZ-S; hence I feel we have been heard. Since I have personally participated quite actively in these discussions I feel I've been heard as well. Thats it. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Roland wrote: > We must consider now that the MZ-S body and shutter mechanism are far more > expensive to manufacture than the body and shutter in the Z-1p, simply because > that they are of higher quality. I was told today that the MZ-S was built to more exacting standards - low tolerances. (it wasn't said more exacting compared to what - apparently everything else). Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
In a message dated 2/13/01 1:05:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << * AA Battery pack/hand grip suitable for vertical shooting >> Which might break some folks of their habit of shooting 98% horizontal shots. Mafud [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Paul wrote: >>All manufacturers of expensive consumer goods conduct product clinics before they >commit to production. They bring a bunch of people into a secure room and show them >both the new product and competitive merchandise. Then they quiz them in regard to >the inclusion or exclusion of particular features, styling, price points, etc. It's >established business practice. I'm sure Pentax does it.<< Paul, I agree, but I'll bet everyone in the room spoke Japanese! Regards, Bob S. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
All manufacturers of expensive consumer goods conduct product clinics before they commit to production. They bring a bunch of people into a secure room and show them both the new product and competitive merchandise. Then they quiz them in regard to the inclusion or exclusion of particular features, styling, price points, etc. It's established business practice. I'm sure Pentax does it. Paul aimcompute wrote: > > OK Pal - Just WHEN did Pentax ask YOU and WHEN did they inform YOU of a > customer survey? I can't help but find most of your statements either > hubris or conjecture if they're not backed up by credible evidence (dates, > time, names). > > Tom C. > > -Original Message- > From: Pål Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:47 AM > Subject: Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff > > >Dave > > > >> So, a Pentax market survey involves asking just Pål what he wants in > >> the next camera? :) Did they ask anyone else? > > > > > >Sure. MZ-size, nifty features from the Z-1p, and LX built was pretty much > the message from the Pentax user base. Pentax have been listening more to > their customers than even I have given them credit for. > > > >Pål > > > > > >- > >This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > >go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > >visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . > > > > > > - > This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, > go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to > visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
OK Pal - Just WHEN did Pentax ask YOU and WHEN did they inform YOU of a customer survey? I can't help but find most of your statements either hubris or conjecture if they're not backed up by credible evidence (dates, time, names). Tom C. -Original Message- From: Pål Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 8:47 AM Subject: Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff >Dave > >> So, a Pentax market survey involves asking just Pål what he wants in >> the next camera? :) Did they ask anyone else? > > >Sure. MZ-size, nifty features from the Z-1p, and LX built was pretty much the message from the Pentax user base. Pentax have been listening more to their customers than even I have given them credit for. > >Pål > > >- >This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, >go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to >visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . > > - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On 13 Feb 2001, at 7:20, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > My thoughts precisely. Perhaps the MZ-S with booster should do a fine job of > filling up the hand. And emptying the pocket, so it appears :-( Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 Fax +61-2-9554-9259 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Dave > So, a Pentax market survey involves asking just Pål what he wants in > the next camera? :) Did they ask anyone else? Sure. MZ-size, nifty features from the Z-1p, and LX built was pretty much the message from the Pentax user base. Pentax have been listening more to their customers than even I have given them credit for. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
In a message dated 2/13/01 2:38:22 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << ...The grip of Z-1p is not bad either, just that my last finger did not have a good grip since the body is a bit short. >> My thoughts precisely. Perhaps the MZ-S with booster should do a fine job of filling up the hand. Mafud [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Frantisek wrote: > (why Leica made such ugly and big slr when their rf cameras are so cute > and small is out of my imagination... R8 also looks like it's been made by > a designer on a bad trip, imho. I much prefer the early German hardware > (like Contax S, Contaxes, Leicas #,M3,...) to those strange ugly R8 slrs. Frantisek, I totally agree, which is one reason I got chased off the Leica User Group. If you think it's bad saying anything bad about Pentax here, trying saying something negative about Leica over there. They set upon you like a pack of dogs. When the original designer of the Leica, Oskar Barnack, considered adding a rangefinder to his original design, he was adamant that it not increase the size of the camera unecessarily. Leica lost sight of that principle with the R8. Although, really, the whole point of Leica R is that wonderful lens line. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>Its all about balance and in my opinion the MZ-S achieve that balance. I'm >sure some disagree. Anyway, small size has been an important design goal >for Pentax the last 25 years and the funny part is that every single one >camera marketed by Pentax were small size (for what it does) has been >design goals have all been runaway sucesses, while every "big" 35mm Pentax, >with the exception of the K1000, has not. Hence, the MZ-S is hardly >suprising. >As for customer surveys: well, hanging around here the last five years has >indeed crystalized out some direction the majority of Pentax fans wants. >The MZ-1 discussion has been endless and small size, tough built and lack >of gimmicks has been design characteristics the majority seems to want in a >Pentax. At least this is my impression. I have felt the same too, it seems Pentax has been good at compact SLRs only over the years. For feature packed models, the other 3 have a lot more to offer (no one really wanted to compete with the size of an F5 anyway). >Unlikely. I can't see why Pentax should go through all the bother to make >the camera as small as possible when they could have saved cost and put the >whole thing in an Z-1p size body. All the small, capable cameras made have >costed extra money to develop due to their small size. This include the >Pentax M-series cameras, the 645 and the Olympus OM-series. The MZ-S is >quite an achievement in miniaturization; never before has such a capable >camera been seen in such a small body. Ahh... you mean a notebook computer... now it make sense... regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>everybody knows what an F5 is. I know, a hammer without a handle. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>I guess my question, is how do you come by this information? How do WE >know >that a majority of SLR users in the market don't care about fps or top >shutter speed and care more about size? I was never made part of a survey >by any camera manufacturer. I think just the opposite is true of any >serious photographer. Physical size matters less than feature set. Looking back, I have noticed that any Pentax SLR bodies which sold well, were compact models (in its era)(except K1000 which was famous for its value) instead of feature packed models. Maybe that's why the SF and Z/PZ series were not selling well (relatively). So, if my observation was true, that would be the reason behind MZ/ZX series, and now the MZ-S. If the price was reasonable, I would expect it had sold much better than the PZ/Z-1p. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>High Magnification , High Eyepoint, x% coverage? The higher the magnification is, the bigger the viewing image will be (through the viewfinder). High eyepoint simply means your eye can be further from the eyepiece, yet still see the whole image throught the viewfinder. However, there is not single standard to this. 17mm (the distance between your eyeball and the eyepiece) can be called high eyepoint, so to 13mm. I think Nikon was the first to use this term (though not necessarily the first to invent it). Say, if the actual image on the film is 100%, 92% coverage means 8% of the image could not be seen through the viewfinder. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
John wrote: >They suggest that the > MZ-S is aimed at the middle of the market, at the N80 > and Elan 7 (which, BTW, also has a part-metal frame). Two other factors to consider when dealing with the MZ-S market position is the fact that Pentax clearly label it PROFESSIONAL (something the rumor mill has been claiming for years) and its naming. Its called MZ-S in all markets; no ZX-S for the US. The last 20 years only the LX, 645 and 67 have had the same names world-wide. In other words their professional cameras. This is no coincidence. Same with Nikon and Canon. Only the top of the line models like the EOS3/EOS1 and F5/F100 have traditionally received one name only while lesser products have hade special names for the US. This is probably done for maximising the marketing value of the top models name so that they can (possibly) develop into strong branding symbols: everybody knows what an F5 is. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
If I were shopping for a new camera right now (and I may be later this year) I'd be considering the MZ-S and the PZ-1p. Although there are many differences between the two, the ones that would affect my decision would be the better viewfinder (from what we've heard so far), faster standard flash sync and faster winder speed on the PZ-1p versus the better autofocus and the electronic depth-of-field preview of the MZ-S. It'd be a *really* close call. Probably determined by price. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
John wrote: > I mention the N80 and the Elan 7 because the specs > which cause so much disappointment for those of us who > hoped for a F100 competitor and PZ-1P successor > actually make me quite happy. They suggest that the > MZ-S is aimed at the middle of the market, at the N80 > and Elan 7 (which, BTW, also has a part-metal frame). > > If that's right, the US street price should be USD > 450-500. Beautiful. Affordable. I certainly wouldn't hold my breath for kind if price. Lets look at some Pentax marketing nonsense(?) for the MZ-S: Created along the same developmental concept lines as the new PENTAX MZ-S PROFESSIONAL 35mm autofocus SLR camera, this HIGH-END digital SLR will feature a 35mm-film-sized Pentax launches new FLAGSHIP 35mm autofocus SLR, the MZ-S PROFESSIONAL. Heralded as the new FLAGSHIP model of its popular ZX/MZ SLR series lineup the new MZ-S combines the advantages of TOP-OF-THE-LINE models DURABLE CONSTRUCTION of the legendary LX the MZ-S is expected to set the NEW STANDARD for HIGH-END 35mm autofocus SLR cameras If this camera is sold for $500 Pentax is bullshitting us wholesale with the statements above. As far as I can tell this is indeed an F100 competitor where max fps and top shutter speed has been traded for compact design. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
I guess my question, is how do you come by this information? How do WE know that a majority of SLR users in the market don't care about fps or top shutter speed and care more about size? I was never made part of a survey by any camera manufacturer. I think just the opposite is true of any serious photographer. Physical size matters less than feature set. How do we know that PENTAX isn't simply attempting to produce something a little more up-market than their current MZ offerings and that size/lack of high-end features isn't more a reflection of the desire to reduce manufacturing costs, than by the actual wants of consumers? Did Pentax garner your vote? They didn't mine. Tom C. Pal wrote: > >Whats more, the MZ-S is definitely a response to the majority of the Pentax users wishes; wishes that were crystalized after the launch of >the MZ-5. These wishes was never(?) about fps or top shutter speed, but small! > size and no nonsense. Pretty much what we got. > > >Pål > - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Ralf wrote: > Taking the Minolta 7 and EOS 30/Elan 7 into account, we indeed have a > new class arising here, the $650-800 class. Isn't this the class Paal > delared to be dead? The big split in amateur (<$500) and > knowledgeables (>$1000) on the SLR market? Doesn't seem so. It certainly wasn't my invention declaring this kind products dead. Its the latest marketing mantra. Its called kudos marketing. Its a trend proved by sales statistics in almost all fields. Basically the modern consumer demands two things: either a cheap good deal or a product with high brand values. The first one is value for money products that shouldn't cost much; the second is lifestyle products or products where the brand signal is strong and where the price is less important (in fact high price is a plus). This is beatufully illustrated by the MZ-S that mixes features and package usually connected with cheaper products with but built and marketing signalizing high-end. Its no conicidence that the MZ-S is fundamentally different from the Z-1p. The market has changed. The Limited lenses are also an example of kudos marketing. Besides, the point here isn't what the cameras cost. But what they do. The MZ-S targets new market trends by being specialized; small size is the MZ-S main kudos. Similarly, eg. SUV vehicles are specialized or signalize a life-style. Likewise, some designers APS cameras, or for that matter, Limited lenses. A Z-1p doesn't signalize anything fashionable in todays marketplace and most people who wants features by the numbers are more likely to choose a EOS3 or an EOS1V, which they in fact do. Not necessarily because they are newer cameras, but because they make a clearer statement. The MZ-S is indeed the clearest statement from Pentax simce the MZ-5; it represent something new and with intelligent marketing, something Pentax isn't famous for, it could have an impact. Whats more, the MZ-S is definitely a response to the majority of the Pentax users wishes; wishes that were crystalized after the launch of the MZ-5. These wishes was never(?) about fps or top shutter speed, but small size and no nonsense. Pretty much what we got. Whats interesting is whether this Sigma or the Minolta will sell; not that they exist. Due to current marketing trends Nikon, which has strong brand values, enjoys sales volumes of its upper level F100 which was pure science fiction a few years ago; mainly because the consumer now want image something Nikon gives. They also experience high sales of their cheaper products because of their high brand recognition. Even the Z-1p was only saleable as a value for money product - it wasn't designed as one. This market trend is also visible in the car industry where the mid class is expected to be decimated in a few years because people will either by high branded small BMW instead of a mid class Ford, or go for a SUV or multi purpose vehicle. And those with noses for a low price will go cheap Korean car. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
aimcompute wrote: > > I hope your wrong about the next flagships of major mfr's being digital. That's the way it is going. Canon have stated they don't expect to develop anything new at the high end that is anything but digital, and Nikon have said they consider an F6 unlikely to be developed. Both Canon and Nikon have said they expect to release full-frame digital bodies in the next product cycle; I've hear rumours of 8MP for the Canon, while Nikon are said to be looking at 12MP. -- John Francis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Silicon Graphics, Inc. (650)933-82952011 N. Shoreline Blvd. MS 43U-991 (650)932-0828 (Fax) Mountain View, CA 94043-1389 Hello. My name is Darth Vader. I am your father. Prepare to die. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
At 23:36 11.2.2001 -0500, you wrote: > At 01:38 PM 2/12/01 +1000, Rob Studdert wrote: > > As it is virtually a software function how they execute MLU on the Leica R8 > system is: set the mode to MLU, one press of the shutter pre-fires the mirror > the next press triggers the shutter after which the mirror comes down ready > for focussing/composing and the next pre-fire trigger, this cycle continues > until MLU mode is disabled, sweet. Maybe a feature of the MZ-Sn :-) > > That does sound like the best of both worlds! > - MCC Yes, combined in the ugliest slr ever - R8 (why Leica made such ugly and big slr when their rf cameras are so cute and small is out of my imagination... R8 also looks like it's been made by a designer on a bad trip, imho. I much prefer the early German hardware (like Contax S, Contaxes, Leicas #,M3,...) to those strange ugly R8 slrs. BTW, who will bet that Contax S is the nicest SLR ever ;) ? Frantisek - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Folks, it seems to me that how the MZ-S looks depends on where you stand. I stand in need of something to replace my ZX-5N, so the MZ-S looks pretty darn good. I bought the 5N about a year ago. After many years with my trusty K1000 and KX, I wanted autofocus, spot metering, auto advance, auto bracketing, TTL flash, and, I'll admit, point and shoot capability for when I get lazy. But it hasn't taken long for the 5N's limitations to get on my nerves, especially the autofocus, which is a generation behind the N80 and two generations behind the new Elan 7 (I say this on the basis of side-by-side -by-side shooting that I did with a couple of friends a few weeks ago). I don't much like the 5N's design (in terms of both looks and utility) and it has a much noisier shutter, advance, and rewind than the Elan 7 (something that matters to me since much of my photography involves accoutic musicians in rehearsal and concert). (No, a rangefinder is not usually an option. When I shoot individual performers, I'm generally using at least a 135 lens, often 80-200, sometimes 100-300.) I mention the N80 and the Elan 7 because the specs which cause so much disappointment for those of us who hoped for a F100 competitor and PZ-1P successor actually make me quite happy. They suggest that the MZ-S is aimed at the middle of the market, at the N80 and Elan 7 (which, BTW, also has a part-metal frame). If that's right, the US street price should be USD 450-500. Beautiful. Affordable. If I'm wrong and Pentax prices the MZ-S above the N80 and Elan 7, I'll be very disappointed. And Pentax will likely have trouble moving it. (Things are moving fast. Adorama is selling USA warranty F100's for USD 985.) Cheers, John PS I made some of these points in a post Sunday which seems not to have gone through. Sorry if I'm repeating myself. I also received double posts Sunday--digests 215 and 217. = John Edwin Mason Charlottesville, Virginia Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Alt Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
BTW, did you notice this Sigma SA-9? 1/8000s shutter 1/180s(!) synch 3 fps cross AF, but not wide 10-segment metering bracketing, MLU price $750.- Taking the Minolta 7 and EOS 30/Elan 7 into account, we indeed have a new class arising here, the $650-800 class. Isn't this the class Paal delared to be dead? The big split in amateur (<$500) and knowledgeables (>$1000) on the SLR market? Doesn't seem so. Ralf - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Alan Chan wrote: > >Manual focus?? Who needs that? Sheesh, get with the 90's already! :) > > Well, there are many many manual focus Pentax lenses on the market. And many > of them are damn fine lenses which I am sure still in actual use. Besides, > Pentax's AF ability is not that hot (not yet). Sorry, that was meant in jest. I too appreciate the Pentax manaul focus lenses. As I posted earlier, I own a PZ-1p (along with several manual focus bodies) but all of my lenses are manual focus. I have noticed that it is getting harder to find used manual focus equipment over here. The owner of a local photo store/lab tells me that there has definitely been a dropoff in the amount of used gear people are bringing in over the past year. Apparently, the same is true in Toronto. Could it be that they are being bought up by collectors? > Car manufacturers still make 5 speed manual, don't they (would you be > one of these drivers)? Interesting analogy - it looks like we have similar interests. Yes you can still buy cars with manual transmissions here in North America, scarce as they may be (though they do seem to be making a comeback). In fact my car, a '98 Ford Contour V6, has a 5-speed manual and I love driving it. My next one will too. Correction - my next car will probably have a 6-speed manual. :) And to relate this to another one of my interests, I also have a modest collection of LPs. Do you listen to vinyl as well? > Why 1/180s when they could do 1/250s x-sync? Don't forget the MZ-S was > supposed to be an advanced model. Perhaps it was due to size concerns, as some have suggested. Or maybe cost, quietness of operation, reliability (though I have not heard of any problems with the Z-1p's shutter), etc. Cheers, Gerald - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
A scroll of mail from Chris Brogden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:15:30 -0600 (CST) Read it? y >...and its onboard infrared beam would disable the electronics on any >Canon or Nikon in the vicinity. :) Nah, the onboard infrared beam tells your palm pilot the details of the shot. On the digital version, the camera can network together with other Pentax Digitals in the neighbourhood and they can use each others flashes or just play multiplayer Quake on the LCD. :) dave - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
> >I was thinking, is it possible to turn their power-zoom (the extra 2 pins) > >power into USM power source. If so, they might just forget the power-zoom > >feature and employ USM technolgy without phyical modification to the camera > >mount. > > Wouldn't you get strange results is you put a power zoom lens on a USM > camera or vice versa? I suppose you could add features to identify > the various lens types, but you'd probably have to sacrifice > compatibility at some point, and Pentax are famous for not doing that. I previously had presumed that the power-zoom contacts were simple power contacts to the lens; presumably the digital interface is used to engage the zoom motor, or the collar, of course. As such, if they just do provide a power source to the lens, I see no reason that they could not be used for either or both simultaneously. Of course, these contacts may not simply be power as I had thought... - Peter - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>But the RTSIII has 100% coverage and a relatively high-eyepoint finder, and >those things aren't unrelated to magnificaton. Generally, eye relief and/or >higher coverage both make it harder to achieve high magnification, and high >magnification makes it harder to achieve 100% coverage and/or good eye >relief. High Magnification , High Eyepoint, x% coverage? I'm getting confused - what does it mean to me? I have an ME-Super and MZ7 so I decided to compare the viewfinders using the same 50mm K mount lens. Magnification - the ME super gave a much larger brighter image - but the metering/shutter speed information was out of site when wearing glasses unless I turned the camera slightly. Without my glasses I can neither read the metering info nor see the split screen clearly enough to focus. MZ7 - smaller dimmer image but I could see the full information with or without glasses due to the dioptre adjustment in the viewfinder. Focusing was easy with or without glasses if using the focus confirmation LED. (easier still if using the beep but I find that irritating and have it switched off) I still don't know what is meant by .75x magnification though - can somebody explain? Field of view (coverage) Well I spent ages setting both cameras on a tripod and moving objects about on a table to detect the edges of the field of view but couldn't discern the difference between the two. Then I looked at the specs. ME-Super 92% MZ7 series 92%. DOH! (_8(|) High Eyepoint - I've no idea what this means. Conclusion - I like the large bright viewfinder on the ME Super and would appreciate similar in a MZ spec. From reading other contributors comments the restriction seems to be a result of limited space for the pentaprism and viewscreen because of the pop up flash unit. So why does it have to be mounted on the pentaprism? 35mm compacts have pop up flashes without even having a pentaprism to mount them on so that proves that it is not the only solution. Peter Manchester, England - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
A scroll of mail from "Alan Chan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> on Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:30:42 -0800 Read it? y >I was thinking, is it possible to turn their power-zoom (the extra 2 pins) >power into USM power source. If so, they might just forget the power-zoom >feature and employ USM technolgy without phyical modification to the camera >mount. Wouldn't you get strange results is you put a power zoom lens on a USM camera or vice versa? I suppose you could add features to identify the various lens types, but you'd probably have to sacrifice compatibility at some point, and Pentax are famous for not doing that. dave - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Alan wrote: > But the metal outer shell does not necessarily mean metal body. Just hope > the major structure was made of die-cast metal (like Z-1p). The body must be > rigid enough to hold the mount (unlike the current MZ/ZX bodies). It is. Its significantly stiffer and more rigid than the Z-1p. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
> > I understand that 100% viefinder is difficult to design and manufacture. > > However, can't they use larger eyepiece to ovecome the high >magnification > > with high-eyepoint? To me anyway, high magnification is important for >manual > > focus. Even though I wear glasses, I prefer high magnification than high > > eyepoint. My MX has pretty high magnification and I do not have problem >to > > use it. > >The point is that if the magnification goes too high with a 100% finder >that is >surrounded with camera status indicators (as the RTSIII is) then you end >having to look around the finder ie you can't see everything at once, like >sitting in the front row at the movies. The advantage of a low mag finder >is >that the finder image appears brighter and the data is easily but yes it is >more difficult to focus, but who cares anyhow, finders are just to frame >the >subject these days :-) But, 1) RTSIII is a manual focus camera. 2) Many people still use manual focus lenses. I am sure to manual focus users, the finders aren't just for framing (but a tool for fine manual focus as well). regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Chris Brogden wrote: > On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Gerald Wang wrote: > > > Hi Mike, in what ways do you consider the MZ-S to be lacking when compared > > to the PZ-1p? > > I'm not Mike, but > > --1/6000 and 1/180 instead of 1/8000 and 1/250 Howdy Chris, That's only a 1/2-stop difference, plus don't forget the high-speed sync of the new flash (not to mention wireless TTL operation). > --2.5 fps instead of 4.3 fps Not to pick at straws , but afaik the Z-1p is "approximately" 4 fps (the original Z-1 was 3.3 fps iirc). > --.75x viewfinder instead of .8x I know. :( > --no more nifty side-mounted hotshoe I hadn't thought of this one. To me, the wireless TTL makes up for it. :) > When it comes down to it, I can live with all of these changes, and the > new features introduced on the MZ-S more than make up for them. At the > same time, I have to wonder whether they're planning the MZ-Sn or Z2-p > with all of the upgrades *and* the same shutter and motor drive as the > Z1-p. Now *that* would be a nice camera. :) Agreed. There are some really nifty features that have got me hooked. However, I must resist.. must save up money to buy... ...Limited lenses! :D As far as the motor drive goes, I hope it is quieter. I like the cool sounds my Z-1p makes but I do wish it were quieter at times. Ok, on to Alan's list: > To me, the disappointment include: > 1) The viewfinder has lower magnification which is no good for manual > focus (Z-1p: 0.8X, MZ-M: 0.77X (the MZ-M is quite bad already)). Manual focus?? Who needs that? Sheesh, get with the 90's already! :) > 2) 1/180s x-sync is a bad new for those who do not want to buy another > flash (I have already had a Metz 40MZ3i which I intend to use). Are you saying that your Metz won't function with the MZ-S or that you are concerned with the 1/2-stop loss in sync speed? > 3) New release cable (aren't the old one expensive enough?). Very true. > 4) Let's hope the eyepiece is glass (I have not known yet). Ok, we get the idea. :) Thanks for your input guys. Gerald - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Alan Chan wrote: > Now, that's the special feature No.1: > - when the built-in flash was pop-up, the zoom lens would be limited to 28mm > or narrower to avoid vignetting. ...and its onboard infrared beam would disable the electronics on any Canon or Nikon in the vicinity. :) chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
In light of the specs that Doug just posted, I retreat on my position that there are a LOT of features missing. If there is a mirror prefire, then my only serious gripes would be the fact that it'll require me to buy new flashes to take advantage of the new features (as opposed to some kind of add-on for the two AF500's I now use), and its seriously slow motor drive. The loss of the 1/8000 and the 1/250 flash sync isn't a big deal for me. > Hi Mike, in what ways do you consider the MZ-S to be lacking when compared > to the PZ-1p? - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
I am not sure about other MZ/ZX bodies, but the MZ-M has very very little mirror vibration compared to any other Pentax SLRs that I have used. With a sturdy tripod and a good quality tripod head, I do not see the mirror vibration could cause any practical difference (and the quality of the tripod setup is really really critical based on my experience). Maybe the MLU is not as important as it used to be. Just a thought. regards, Alan Chan > > I can think of several scenarios other than macro or night shots > > in which MLU would be valuable. True MLU is a valuable feature > > for any camera, and I use it just about any time I use a > > tripod. > >Me too !! The lack of MLU is giving me cause to reconsider the >direction I am going to take. It seems the Nikon F5 and Cannon 1v are >the only current generation AF cameras offering MLU. I think Pentax had >the opportunity to do something here ...what they have done instead is >produce a nice "me too" camera in their own style. A nice camera but >not what I was hoping for. > >Mike. _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On 11 Feb 2001, at 17:39, Alan Chan wrote: > >But the RTSIII has 100% coverage and a relatively high-eyepoint finder, and > >those things aren't unrelated to magnificaton. Generally, eye relief and/or > >higher coverage both make it harder to achieve high magnification, and high > >magnification makes it harder to achieve 100% coverage and/or good eye > >relief. > > I understand that 100% viefinder is difficult to design and manufacture. > However, can't they use larger eyepiece to ovecome the high magnification > with high-eyepoint? To me anyway, high magnification is important for manual > focus. Even though I wear glasses, I prefer high magnification than high > eyepoint. My MX has pretty high magnification and I do not have problem to > use it. The point is that if the magnification goes too high with a 100% finder that is surrounded with camera status indicators (as the RTSIII is) then you end having to look around the finder ie you can't see everything at once, like sitting in the front row at the movies. The advantage of a low mag finder is that the finder image appears brighter and the data is easily but yes it is more difficult to focus, but who cares anyhow, finders are just to frame the subject these days :-) Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 Fax +61-2-9554-9259 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>I'm assuming there's no such body in the works. The words "Pentax >Introduces the New Flagship of Its 35mm Autofocus SLR Lineup" would >indicate >this is as good as it gets. Obviously Pentax believes there only competing >with themselves. Not that this is not a good body, it's just doesn't >appear >to be a flagship that is trying to compete with other mfr's flagships. >Tom C. Seems to me that Pentax found the MZ/ZX was a success to the general public (not die hard Pentax fans), so they decided to design the MZ-S which will make their current MZ/ZX users to get deeper. It was never mean to be THE serious model to long time Pentax fans, just the best MZ/ZX model to soak more money. That's how I see the MZ-S anyway. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
At 01:38 PM 2/12/01 +1000, Rob Studdert wrote: As it is virtually a software function how they execute MLU on the Leica R8 system is: set the mode to MLU, one press of the shutter pre-fires the mirror the next press triggers the shutter after which the mirror comes down ready for focussing/composing and the next pre-fire trigger, this cycle continues until MLU mode is disabled, sweet. Maybe a feature of the MZ-Sn :-) That does sound like the best of both worlds! - MCC - - - - - - - - - - Mark Cassino Kalamazoo, MI [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - - - - - - - - - Photos: http://www.markcassino.com - - - - - - - - - -
RE: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
I think you have brought up an intertesting point. I have the feeling that the general public (less discriminating consumers) would usually go for cheaper models when all they wanted was a camera to shoot. However, when talking about top end models (MZ-S in this case), the consumers are usually more advanced and critical, or at least expect more. That's why they are willing to pay significantly more. regards, Alan Chan >Jens, >True. My wording was too harsh (which seems usual for me these days, >unfortunately. Too much stress). I should have specified that this is just >for me...for my uses, any camera with a .92, .75x finder joins the large >group of products aimed more or less at less discriminating consumers who >aren't as aware of subtler features of camera design, which include such >things as the viewfinder and shutter lag, rather than the much smaller >group >of more discriminating veteran photographers who *do* notice such things. >But this is only from my point of view. Otherwise the MZ-S seems excellent >in very many ways, and I imagine many PDML'ers will be happy with one. > >Which brings to mind...I wonder who will be first on our block to buy and >own one? |;-) > >--Mike _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Gerald Wang wrote: > Hi Mike, in what ways do you consider the MZ-S to be lacking when compared > to the PZ-1p? I'm not Mike, but --1/6000 and 1/180 instead of 1/8000 and 1/250 --2.5 fps instead of 4.3 fps --.75x viewfinder instead of .8x --no more nifty side-mounted hotshoe When it comes down to it, I can live with all of these changes, and the new features introduced on the MZ-S more than make up for them. At the same time, I have to wonder whether they're planning the MZ-Sn or Z2-p with all of the upgrades *and* the same shutter and motor drive as the Z1-p. Now *that* would be a nice camera. :) chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On 11 Feb 2001, at 17:42, Mark Cassino wrote: > Personally, I find the terms "true mirror lock up" and "pseudo mirror lock up" > to be needlessly pejorative. "Mirror lock up" and "Mirror Pre-fire" are two > distinct ways of addressing the issue of unsharpenss induced by mirror > vibration, with respective strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I find mirror > pre-fire to be the more better solution, others may differ. But the suggestion > that one system in inherently superior to the other is baseless. As it is virtually a software function how they execute MLU on the Leica R8 system is: set the mode to MLU, one press of the shutter pre-fires the mirror the next press triggers the shutter after which the mirror comes down ready for focussing/composing and the next pre-fire trigger, this cycle continues until MLU mode is disabled, sweet. Maybe a feature of the MZ-Sn :-) Cheers, Rob Studdert HURSTVILLE AUSTRALIA Tel +61-2-9554-4110 Fax +61-2-9554-9259 UTC(GMT) +10 Hours [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ozemail.com.au/~distudio/publications.html - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>Dang. Maybe they should have interchangable finders, then you could >replace >the entire prism with a better one and no dinky pop-up flash. > >Actually, I found it rather odd that the built in flash only covers 28mm >but the 'standard' lens is almost certainly going to be a 24-90. Surely >this is going to cause a large number of unsuspecting people to have >serious vignetting. > >- Peter Now, that's the special feature No.1: - when the built-in flash was pop-up, the zoom lens would be limited to 28mm or narrower to avoid vignetting. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>I wonder if the new cable switches mean the old ones won't work. Seems to be. The new socket is round shape. Bad bad idea to those who just wanted a simple cable release!!! regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Has a picture of the grip been posted? I looked at the Gianfranco link, the top-view of the camera in particular shows a nice grip moulded into the case. Where would they put an add-on? Wherever, I also hope it has the strap like the PZ-1p. I doubt a mirror lock-up. The 2sec time delay woudn't seem to have any use except for as a substitute for MLU. Stan > From: tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff > > Well, I'm pretty excited about it. That top view is pretty sexy. > > ... > > I may buy one just for that grip... > > tv > - - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>--- Alan Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With the features listed, I would be pretty > > surprised if its street price > > was more than USD800. Personally, I feel it worth > > USD700 only. > >Yeah, and with N dropping the F100's price below >US$1000 I don't think Pentax can sell too many MZS at >the previous US$900 stated price. >Herbet. Especially when the spec. does not look that good. Unless of course, Pentax was trying to convince people that they were actually selling style. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>But the RTSIII has 100% coverage and a relatively high-eyepoint finder, and >those things aren't unrelated to magnificaton. Generally, eye relief and/or >higher coverage both make it harder to achieve high magnification, and high >magnification makes it harder to achieve 100% coverage and/or good eye >relief. I understand that 100% viefinder is difficult to design and manufacture. However, can't they use larger eyepiece to ovecome the high magnification with high-eyepoint? To me anyway, high magnification is important for manual focus. Even though I wear glasses, I prefer high magnification than high eyepoint. My MX has pretty high magnification and I do not have problem to use it. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Well, it looks pretty nice to me. I'll add my comiserations to the loss of the 98% viewfinder, but other than that I'd be pretty happy with one. 2.5fps is more than enough for me; I don't think I've ever shot continuous shooting except for auto-bracketing anyway. 1/180th sync is fine for my purposes.. and this new wireless TTL 1/6000th flash sounds like a winner. Something else to work out how to get a few of into the house though I guess about three remote flashes will do, as I can use my Metz 50MZ-5 as the primary one still :) I love the magnesium body... where's the chrome version! :) Hopefully it has psuedo-MLU. I'm prettys sure the existance of the 2sec timer indicates that it does. I can't see the point of it otherwise. Data imprint on the edge of frames is great. Much better than between frames. Interestingly, as far as new lens features go, the specs say it is 'KAF2' mount, same as any Z or MZ series so far. Of course this may not be true, and the introduction of the first lens with 'new features' might see this become termed KAF3. It also mentiones mid-roll rewind, though I expect this will not be leader-out rewind. Interestingly it also does 5 frame auto-bracketing. Not that I can say I've ever wanted to do that. And it has an illuminated lens mount to boot. :) On the whole it looks like a great camera in a lovely little package. I find even the Z1-p to be a tad large for my tastes, and, as someone said, this will be the perfect upgrade from my MZ-3 (which my wife keeps saying is 'her' camera, and can't I use one of my older ones today :) now we just have to wait for them to start arriving in stores. - Peter - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>--- Alan Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > With the features listed, I would be pretty > > surprised if its street price > > was more than USD800. Personally, I feel it worth > > USD700 only. > >Yeah, and with N dropping the F100's price below >US$1000 I don't think Pentax can sell too many MZS at >the previous US$900 stated price. >Herbet. Especially when the spec. does not look that good. Unless of course, Pentax was trying to convince people that they were actually selling style. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Bob wrote: > Data imprinting between the frames is a major pain in the arse if > you're doing reportage work, Flavio. It slows the film advance very > significantly. I have this feature on the RXs, but have no need of it. Apparently, the MZ-S prints along the frames, not between them. I don't know why it should slow down the film advance. Theoretically it can be done in 1/1s. For what its worth, the dataimprinting on the 645n does not slow down the film transport. In fact, data is printed while the film is being transported and theres no way film can be transported too fast for the data to be recorded. I guess the same is the case for the MZ-S. > Does this camera have anything unique, special or different about it > that other brands/models don't have? Maybe built. At least it looks like its carved out of one piece of granite. Totally different from the flimsy Z-1p. Lets hope the pictures don't lie. Another thing is a unique user interface. Looks good. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Bucky wrote: > All I can say is that, from the specs, I am going to find it hard to make > the switch from my PZ1p twins to this new offering. The digital version is > gonna be too expensive for me, and the conventional one is going to be a > step backwards in too many areas. It seemed such a no-brainer - the PZ1p is > a great camera! Hi Mike, in what ways do you consider the MZ-S to be lacking when compared to the PZ-1p? Thanks, Gerald - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
> > This viewfinder info looks rather strange. With such a high eyepoint >(only > > x.75 magnification), how come the viewfinder area is only 92%. It >should be > > more. > > Well, let's hope that some posted specs could be wrong :-) >Since I've been told by an utter reliable source that the MZ-S has 98% >coverage, I hope you're right. Anyway, nothing can prevent them for >changing specifications the last few months. It'll be interesting to see >the official press releases. >Pål I do not care much about gimmick, I just want the good old viewfinders back so I can manual focus with ease. Now the only thing I can do is... pray... (or switching system) regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Peter wrote: > Is there actually anything changed in the final specs to the > original version of this camera show (KB-266 was it?) - other > than the fact it actually is finished perhaps. > > Considering it was supposed to have various upgrades, etc, hence > the delay.. It looks identical to what we saw before, as far as > I can see. Theres nothing "new" as far as I can tell. The information about the upgraded camera has been fleshed out meanwhile. It turns out to be that mythical flagship again; not the MZ-S (another mix-up. Last time it was a mix-up between the flagship and the LX2000). This camera has been long in the making. The MZ-S project directly delayed this flagship. Apparently, due to this delay, the flagship has in the meantime been outdated so its now in for a complete overhaul of its specifications. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
- Original Message - From: "Peter Loveday" Subject: Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff > > Actually, I found it rather odd that the built in flash only covers 28mm > but the 'standard' lens is almost certainly going to be a 24-90. Surely > this is going to cause a large number of unsuspecting people to have > serious vignetting. > Judging from the physical size of that lens, there will likely be interference with the flash at anything wider than around 35mm anyway. I love those half moon shaped shadows. William Robb > - Peter - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Len wrote: > No, I don't think this is marketing bullshit. I think that the > MZ-S is an honest attempt to field a camera that both pros and > amateurs will appreciate. The feature set looks good, the size > and weight looks good, and the build quality looks good. I sincerely hope so. It isn't unlikely. After all, its main design goal is probably to satisfy the demand on a $7000 digital pro camera. Anyway, it seems like this is indeed the small, tough MZ-style camera we wanted. Only that viewfinder stuff makes me suspicious... For me its a great progress from the Z-1p. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
> Incidentally, on the MZ-S as on many newer cameras, a physical feature that > limites viewfinder magnification and coverage is the pop-up flash, since it > effectively limits the space available for the prism. Dang. Maybe they should have interchangable finders, then you could replace the entire prism with a better one and no dinky pop-up flash. Actually, I found it rather odd that the built in flash only covers 28mm but the 'standard' lens is almost certainly going to be a 24-90. Surely this is going to cause a large number of unsuspecting people to have serious vignetting. - Peter - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Hi The 1st Z1 only gave 2fps. Maybe there will be a MZ-Sn in a couple of years! This wouldn't be the first time (ME-Super,SFXn,MZ5-n) Jens - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Is there actually anything changed in the final specs to the original version of this camera show (KB-266 was it?) - other than the fact it actually is finished perhaps. Considering it was supposed to have various upgrades, etc, hence the delay.. It looks identical to what we saw before, as far as I can see. - Peter - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
At 11:00 AM 2/11/01 -0500, Flavio and Mike wrote: > this is the same spec as the Z1-p's. > There IS the pseudo MLU as in the Z1-p, I think. I suppose it's better than nothing, I use the self timer on my SP in that manner since it lacks a true MLU feather. However, I truly miss the real MLU of my LX. Personally, I find the mirror pre-fire of the Pz-1p to be better suited for most purposes than the mirror lock up of the LX. Cocking the mirror for mirror lock up is just another step in the process, un-needed with mirror pre-fire, and for really high magnification stuff (>5x) the act of cocking the mirror can throw things off. I'd rather get things set and let the mirror automatically pre-fire. The only exception to this would be situations where very precise timing is needed, like waiting for the split second when a wind-blown flower is still to shoot. But here again, as a user of both systems, my experience is that the advantage to mirror lock up vs pre-fire in this situation is very slight. Personally, I find the terms "true mirror lock up" and "pseudo mirror lock up" to be needlessly pejorative. "Mirror lock up" and "Mirror Pre-fire" are two distinct ways of addressing the issue of unsharpenss induced by mirror vibration, with respective strengths and weaknesses. Personally, I find mirror pre-fire to be the more better solution, others may differ. But the suggestion that one system in inherently superior to the other is baseless. - MCC - - - - - - - - - - Mark Cassino Kalamazoo, MI [EMAIL PROTECTED] - - - - - - - - - - Photos: http://www.markcassino.com - - - - - - - - - -
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Dario wrote: > I should have written "I believe" we'll see new lenses with new features > pretty soon, as I have no info at all. Just my idea. Oh Well, we should expect them pretty soon. The press release says they will be launched with the MZ-S. I guess the formal launch of the MZ-S is a couple of months away at the most. I wonder what those new features are? Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
It doesn't surprise me. They haven't been really attempting to compete with the other flagships for over a decade have they? Goodness sakes, they don't EVEN ADVERTISE their current flagship (PZ-1p) anymore. Tom C. > Pål wrote: >Not necessarily. The press release clearly state the following: "Heralded as the new flagship model of its popular MZ-series lineup". The flaghship of the MZ-series. I find it hard to believe that Pentax discontinues a 4fps camera just to replace it with a 2.5fps camera as flagship. > >Pål > - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Jens wrote: > Hi all > Mike wrote about the MZ-S, referring to a 92%/ x0.75 viewfinder: >> a very fancy, very capable consumer-grade snapshot camera< > > Well, maybe that's just what Pentax does best. (I'm disapointed with the > viewfinder as well - if this is really true. It's not just annother feature, > where I could just use other cameras (like MLU), but a drawback, that > effects any picture, made with this camera). > Nevertheless, a snapshot camera doesn't have...[etc.] Jens, True. My wording was too harsh (which seems usual for me these days, unfortunately. Too much stress). I should have specified that this is just for me...for my uses, any camera with a .92, .75x finder joins the large group of products aimed more or less at less discriminating consumers who aren't as aware of subtler features of camera design, which include such things as the viewfinder and shutter lag, rather than the much smaller group of more discriminating veteran photographers who *do* notice such things. But this is only from my point of view. Otherwise the MZ-S seems excellent in very many ways, and I imagine many PDML'ers will be happy with one. Which brings to mind...I wonder who will be first on our block to buy and own one? |;-) --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
All I can say is that, from the specs, I am going to find it hard to make the switch from my PZ1p twins to this new offering. The digital version is gonna be too expensive for me, and the conventional one is going to be a step backwards in too many areas. It seemed such a no-brainer - the PZ1p is a great camera! Update the AF, give it a tougher chassis and some weatherproofing (maybe a facelift to sell the average consumer on its newness), a vertical release option, and you have your F100 killer. I honestly have to say that after waiting this long for Pentax to come out with something that justifies my loyalty to the marque, I am losing faith in their commitment to serious (rugged and functional) 35mm bodies. I guess I should just be glad that Pentax comtinue to make some great glass, and that I have the bodies I need to get me through just about any job. Mike Vancovuer, Canada - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
> Hell. Look at this (from the press release): "the > MZ-S is expected to set the new standard for high-end > 35mm autofocus SLR cameras and satisfy the > photographic needs of uncompromising photographers - > professionals and experienced amateurs alike." > Doesn't seem like an F80 to me! Marketing bullshit? > > > Pål No, I don't think this is marketing bullshit. I think that the MZ-S is an honest attempt to field a camera that both pros and amateurs will appreciate. The feature set looks good, the size and weight looks good, and the build quality looks good. I don't think it's possible to make every user happy unless you want to field a camera in the Leica M6 price range. There are always choices that must be made when you decide to buy a camera. No single camera meets everybody's desires. Len --- - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
With little trepidation, Mike Johnston opined on 02/11/2001 08:15: >Incidentally, on the MZ-S as on many newer cameras, a physical feature that >limites viewfinder magnification and coverage is the pop-up flash, since it >effectively limits the space available for the prism. And the larger the (true) pentaprism, the heavier the camera; another design trade off. JoMac, Imagineer with Camera - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
"aimcompute" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >By the way I just have to get this out of my system. Does Galen Rowell and >his OBVIOUS pimping of even Nikon's mid-level 35mm offferings make anybody >else want to puke too? Sometimes I enjoy his OP column, but I recall one >recently that was what I just described. Absolutely! I really like his photography and respect him as a climber. And I think he's written some outstanding thought-provoking columns in OP. But his Nikon "pimping" *is* offensive, especially because, in his case, it's so unnecessary. Doesn't he think his photography itself speaks well enough to be a good plug for the equipment he uses? One of the motivating factors in my buying a Pentax 645 was seeing Daryl Benson's work in OP and noticing that that was the camera he used. He didn't have to prostitute himself to promote the equipment he uses. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
With little trepidation, herbet brasileiro opined on 02/11/2001 09:08: > >--- Alan Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> With the features listed, I would be pretty >> surprised if its street price >> was more than USD800. Personally, I feel it worth >> USD700 only. > >Yeah, and with N dropping the F100's price below >US$1000 I don't think Pentax can sell too many MZS at >the previous US$900 stated price. >Herbet. Pentax has had, and will probably continue to have, pricing balls. I would be surprised if the list wasn't 1600USD, and a street price of $1195 down to $999 for it's first year or so. JoMac, Imagineer with Camera - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
With little trepidation, Shel Belinkoff opined on 02/11/2001 07:57: >Jens Bladt said: > >> MLU is missing, but this is only >> important for macro/night shots. >> So, we'll just have to use other >> cameras (LX, K1000, PZ1-p) for this. > >I can think of several scenarios other than macro or night shots >in which MLU would be valuable. True MLU is a valuable feature >for any camera, and I use it just about any time I use a >tripod. So now do we all sit back and wait for the MZ-Sp (p for Pro!) and hope Pentax picks up on our bleating posts? Or just go with the 6 Mpixel digital and forget the darned incomplete silver imaging cameras? I for one will take a look at this thing, and determine if it's worth getting rid of all but my LXs to have it. JoMac, Imagineer with Camera - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
- Original Message - From: Gary L. Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:00 AM Subject: Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff > On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:45:38 -0700, aimcompute wrote: > > >I'm assuming there's no such body in the works. The words "Pentax > >Introduces the New Flagship of Its 35mm Autofocus SLR Lineup" would indicate > >this is as good as it gets. Obviously Pentax believes there only competing > > But if you read further it says: > > "Heralded as the new flagship model of its popular MZ-series lineup.." > > Notice the "MZ-series". I would read that as meaning there is quite possibly a new >"Flagship" to the > complete line of SLR's which would be targeted to replace the aging PZ-1p and to go >head to head with the > other "top of the line" systems that are out there. > [...] And I would read that as meaning we don't know how well the translator understand both English and Japanese. I am afraid that "your mileage will vary" applies here. Michel - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
John wrote: > I actually like the specs. Seem to mean that the > camera will compete with the N/F80 and the new Elan 7 > (which also has part-metal construction) and not the > F100. Problem is that Pentax claims its a high-end camera that supposedly compete with the F100 and EOS3 and in addition offers LX durability and built. Confused? Or maybe Pentax is bullshitting us? Hell. Look at this (from the press release): "the MZ-S is expected to set the new standard for high-end 35mm autofocus SLR cameras and satisfy the photographic needs of uncompromising photographers - professionals and experienced amateurs alike." Doesn't seem like an F80 to me! Marketing bullshit? Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
I hope your wrong about the next flagships of major mfr's being digital. I agree that Pentax would be sitting pretty if most 35's when digital, because of their MF offerings. They are even now in that regard. Wouldn't it just burn your butt if all the "pros" when digital? Right now many "amateur" status photographers can afford to buy what is promoted as "pro-level" equipment. If that switched to digital with bodies in the $5K - $10K range... Of course, this is likely ro revive the age old thread of what "pro" is. Hope not. By the way I just have to get this out of my system. Does Galen Rowell and his OBVIOUS pimping of even Nikon's mid-level 35mm offferings make anybody else want to puke too? Sometimes I enjoy his OP column, but I recall one recently that was what I just described. Ahh, I feel better now. All that said, there's nothing wong with a K1000 or MX is there? Tom C. -Original Message- From: Treena Harp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, February 11, 2001 12:08 PM Subject: Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff >I think the REAL new flagship is this camera's digital twin. I think most >makers of 35mm cameras will go to digital for their top offerings to appeal >to the photojournalism market, which will probably leave all of the 35 mm >lines relegated at most to "advanced amateur" status -- if the "pros" are >shooting digital, what need have they for a "pro" film camera? I think >that's the logic that will prevail. If people don't buy the EOS 1v and the >F5 because their job requirements are digital, those cameras will die. What >will be left are "connoiseur" models with good features, but high price >tags. > >If that's so, then it actually leaves Pentax in a pretty position. Those who >want more features and better picture quality from film will move up to the >645 and 67 as digital takes over the 35 mm market. That makes it the only >one out of Nikon, Canon and Minolta that has a solid medium format offering. >And, the medium format cameras are still cheaper than anything digital >offered to professionals -- probably will be for some time. > >- Original Message - >From: "aimcompute" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:45 AM >Subject: Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff > > >> I'm assuming there's no such body in the works. The words "Pentax >> Introduces the New Flagship of Its 35mm Autofocus SLR Lineup" would >indicate >> this is as good as it gets. Obviously Pentax believes there only >competing >> with themselves. Not that this is not a good body, it's just doesn't >appear >> to be a flagship that is trying to compete with other mfr's flagships. >> >> Tom C. >> >> >> Dave wrote: >> >> I'm taking this camera as a sign of things to come for a Z-1p successor. >> In general it appears to be a souped-up Z-1p with a few compromises to get >> it into a smaller body. It's also very light IMO. I am really looking >> forward to >> the flagship pro body, assuming it exists ;) >> >> So is it available in chrome? >> >> >> - Dave >> >> >> >> >> - >> This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, >> go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to >> visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . >> > >- >This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, >go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to >visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org . > > - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Tom wrote: > I'm assuming there's no such body in the works. The words "Pentax > Introduces the New Flagship of Its 35mm Autofocus SLR Lineup" would indicate > this is as good as it gets. Not necessarily. The press release clearly state the following: "Heralded as the new flagship model of its popular MZ-series lineup". The flaghship of the MZ-series. I find it hard to believe that Pentax discontinues a 4fps camera just to replace it with a 2.5fps camera as flagship. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
My big decision sometime in the future is: do I get a 67II or a 645. The obvious advantages to the 645 are the AF and the data imprinting (to me at least). On the other hand, the 67II has a much larger frame size than the 645 , which is the major reason for going to medium-format to begin with... so... Tom -Original Message- From: Michael Perham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Sunday, February 11, 2001 11:33 AM Subject: Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff > Anyway as I have said in my previous post, now I >have to sit down and rethink where I am going with my next camera purchase. > >Cheers, Mike. > - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Tom wrote: > I'm surprised the finder coverage is only 92%. > > I'm surprised it only does 2.5 frames per sec. I find this surprising when seen in light of the "high-end" statements and comparison with LX durability and built quality. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Flavio Minelli wrote: > Self-Timer: Electronically controlled type with 2 or 12 seconds delay. > Cancellation possible. > > Jens, > this is the same spec as the Z1-p's. > There IS the pseudo MLU as in the Z1-p, I think. But doesn't the MZ-7 do the 2 second timer as well, only without the MLU? chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
RE: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Shel is right. Every list, of which I am a member, is the same. Major speculation (and rumors) before official announcements are made. Then, after the official announcements, the complaints (whining?) roll in. It's true on all the lists that I see. A person has to weigh the factors according to his/her needs and make his/her decisions as to what he/she wants in a camera and then have the courage to follow his/her convictions. I don't know what the dissatisfied folks think we can do about it. I, for one, think the MZ-S is a major step forward and I am planning on buying one. If anyone feels that it is a disappointment, then do as you feel best. Len --- > Mike Johnston wrote: > > > > Doug wrote: > > > > > Let the whining begin. > > > > This comment is needlessly offensive. If people are > disappointed by the lack > > of features they need, it is not "whining." > > [Big Snip] > > I think you're over reacting, Mike. I'm sure Doug meant his > comment, if not completely tongue-in-cheek, certainly with a > bit of humor. Frankly, I feel similarly. First we had months > of speculation, now I fully expect some complaining. > That's just > part of the process. But I do understand your need for a > "morning rant" . > -- > Shel Belinkoff > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
aimcompute wrote: > I'm assuming there's no such body in the works. The words "Pentax > Introduces the New Flagship of Its 35mm Autofocus SLR Lineup" would indicate > this is as good as it gets. Obviously Pentax believes there only competing > with themselves. Not that this is not a good body, it's just doesn't appear > to be a flagship that is trying to compete with other mfr's flagships. I suspect you are correct. In fact at the time of Photokina there was a posting of an interview in a British Photo Mag. of a senior Pentax individual (was it the new CEO?). Anyway, as I recall he suggested the "Flagship" would be a 645 model as people looking for improved image quality would move up to that format from 35 mm. Certainly seems many nature photographers, for instance Tim Fitharris, have done just that. He shoot a Pentax 645 for his landscape and nature photography other than when he needs the long lenses for wildlife and then switches to a Canon and IS series lenses. I was hoping the MZ-S would allow for MLU to obtain the best image quality possible from the 35 mm format at the slower shutter speeds I often use. Lenses and scanners are less expensive than for medium format and 35 mm is also great for family and travel photos, which I am sure burn up a lot of film for many other amateurs like myself. Anyway as I have said in my previous post, now I have to sit down and rethink where I am going with my next camera purchase. Cheers, Mike. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On Sun, 11 Feb 2001, Flavio Minelli wrote: > I'm reading the PDML from the archives so my apologies if this has > already been discussed but I checked some negative/slide strips and I > wonder how you can have anything written between the frame and the > perforations. > > It seems there is about half a millimeter. Did I got it right? > If I did it's going to be something awfully small, won't it? I was wondering the same thing. Maybe it writes the info in the space between adjacent perforations. Gerald - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Flavio Minelli wrote: > this is the same spec as the Z1-p's. > There IS the pseudo MLU as in the Z1-p, I think. I suppose it's better than nothing, I use the self timer on my SP in that manner since it lacks a true MLU feather. However, I truly miss the real MLU of my LX. Cheers, Mike. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
--- Alan Chan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > With the features listed, I would be pretty > surprised if its street price > was more than USD800. Personally, I feel it worth > USD700 only. Yeah, and with N dropping the F100's price below US$1000 I don't think Pentax can sell too many MZS at the previous US$900 stated price. Herbet. __ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Dario wrote: > Which is their target. I see this MZ-S much like the Super-A (Super Program) > was for ME Super users back in the 80's. I agree. Then we can only wait for the LX equivalent :-) > > I'm quite sure we'll see new lenses with new features pretty soon. So there are indeed lenses with new features coming? Could this be the FAII lenses wild rumors from Japan says? Does soon mean PMA? I noticed that according to your page the MZ-S uses KAF2 which implies no new couplings between lens and body. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Ken wrote: > This viewfinder info looks rather strange. With such a high eyepoint (only > x.75 magnification), how come the viewfinder area is only 92%. It should be > more. > Well, let's hope that some posted specs could be wrong :-) Since I've been told by an utter reliable source that the MZ-S has 98% coverage, I hope you're right. Anyway, nothing can prevent them for changing specifications the last few months. It'll be interesting to see the official press releases. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Jens Bladt said: > MLU is missing, but this is only > important for macro/night shots. > So, we'll just have to use other > cameras (LX, K1000, PZ1-p) for this. I can think of several scenarios other than macro or night shots in which MLU would be valuable. True MLU is a valuable feature for any camera, and I use it just about any time I use a tripod. -- Shel Belinkoff mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Doug wrote: > Let the whining begin. This comment is needlessly offensive. If people are disappointed by the lack of features they need, it is not "whining." Speaking for myself, I understand perfectly well that people who shoot slides may not be disappointed by a 92% finder. I shoot black-and-white negative film, however, and print it full-frame, and have been doing so for 19 years now, and "slide-mount viewfinders" are not ideal for this. It's the primary reason I don't shoot Leica R. The prediction on this list had been for a 98% viewfinder in the new camera (good enough), and, since the ZX-5N's viewfinder constitutes my principal complaint about that camera, this had seemed promising. Pentax used to understand the importance of a good viewfinder with high magnification and good coverage. Especially for compact cameras, the MX and the ME-Super are very good in this respect. I'm told the LX has a great viewfinder as well. The fact that the MZ-S has a 92%, .75 finder makes it into a very fancy, very capable consumer-grade snapshot camera for me. I don't need to be convinced that others will see it differently. I know they will. I have absolutely no need for mirror lock-up, but I understand that for some peoples' work it is extremely important. If they express concern about this feature on the new camera, is it not whining. It means it's a feature they need for their photographic work and it's important to them. --Mike - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Gianfranco wrote: > Viewfinder: > Field of View: 92% vertically/horizontally > > ARGH!! > NO, PLEASE NOT THIS! > > Gianfranco > (mourning for the 98% viewfinder) This is really surprising (I guess they let the bean counters loose) and a real drawback. I sincerely hope that the viewfinder is better than on the MZ-5. Another drawback (although not really to me) is the 2,5 fps film wind. At least the battery back should have included a booster. I fear that this will restrict the cameras impact. Interesting that they compare its durability and built to the LX. Also that the beancounters didn't manage to get rid of the metal body. All in all, I don't thnk Pentax can charge too much for ths camera but it does indeed provide a natural upgrade path for the MZ-series users. Pål - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Mike Johnston writes: > UG! > > 92% viewfinder @ .75X. That scks. > > I'm out. I'm taking this camera as a sign of things to come for a Z-1p successor. I'm seriously impressed with it, although I must agree about the viewfinder. Reading the text, it looks like they shrunk the viewfinder to get the exposure information along the bottom. I don't see mirror lockup mentioned. I sure hope they put it in. I love the data imprinting though. That's something I've been wanting. Come to think of it I'd actually like a feature where you could also imprint some custom text on the leader, such as your name and phone number (in case your film gets mixed up or lost at the lab). In general it appears to be a souped-up Z-1p with a few compromises to get it into a smaller body. It's also very light IMO. I am really looking forward to the flagship pro body, assuming it exists ;) So is it available in chrome? - Dave David A. Mann, B.E. email [EMAIL PROTECTED] * http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/ "Why is it that if an adult behaves like a child they lock him up, while children are allowed to run free on the streets?" -- Garfield - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>I must say this is better than I expected. The magnesium exterior in >particular took me by surprise. I look forward to seeing the full list of >specs. So, they decided to use the more expensive metal shell, let's hope the eyepiece was made of glass rather than some cheap plastic. Otherwise, their engineers should have their heads checked up. (A long time Pentax user/loser which is tired of plastic eyepieces. Just no more!!!) regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
I've been reading over the specs for the new camera, and speaking as someone who's a little visually impaired -- nearsighted as hell, my optometrist says :-) -- I'm not too wild about the viewfinder, either. But there is a lot of other great stuff there. I thought my husband had gotten thoroughly sick of hearing me talk about it, but then he saw something that will be of very real use to him -- the data imprinting outside the frame. Since he's required to keep track of that information for law enforcement evidence purposes, this would solve the problem of keeping logs that could get misplaced. He's now saying we ought to buy two ... Hey, where are those enabler guys, anyway?? Chris Brogden opined: > The 92%/.75x viewfinder sucks, IMO. They also can't make up their mind > whether there are 17 or 19 custom functions.I like the data > imprinting, the build quality, the wireless flash, and the 6 AF > points. I'm wondering about MLU and flash exp. comp. > > - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
>Well, I don't know about you guys but I think it has the just the right >amount of features.. Not overkill...Wait, it doesn't have. ;) > >Unfortunately it's after all my saved up "fun money" went towards a blown >head gasket on my car. sigh... With the features listed, I would be pretty surprised if its street price was more than USD800. Personally, I feel it worth USD700 only. regards, Alan Chan _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
I was about to complaint that it has 0.75x magnification which is even less than the MZ-M, until I have discovered RTSIII has 0.74x. regards, Alan Chan >Viewfinder: >Field of View: 92% vertically/horizontally > >ARGH!! >NO, PLEASE NOT THIS! > >Gianfranco >(mourning for the 98% viewfinder) _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Let the whining begin. -- Douglas Forrest Brewer Ashwood Lake Photography [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alphoto.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
on 2/11/01 12:01 AM, Paul C at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Everything looks great EXCEPT for the 2.5 fps, maybe the battery grip boosts > the fps a little? Thanks Gianfranco for the link! The camera is nice and certainly gives me plenty enough features. I am not sure if I would jump on it now as my Z-1p and MZ-3 are serving me very well. But the MZ-S is beginning to look (to me at least) more like a precursor to the higher spec'd model (the flagship?). Some of the tell-tale signs to me are; 1. 2.5fps film transport speed 2. 1/6000 max and 1/180 sync shutter speed 3. AF360FGZ flash. This must be something like AF540FGZ with the flagship Just guessing :-) Cheers, Ken - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
On Sat, 10 Feb 2001, Paul C wrote: > Everything looks great EXCEPT for the 2.5 fps, maybe the battery grip boosts > the fps a little? Thanks Gianfranco for the link! It's odd that the specs don't say anything about MLU, but that could just be an oversight. I'm not sure I like the sound of, "Incorporating all the necessary features to take high-quality images with ease while eliminating excessive, little-used features." OTOH, they did retain power zoom capability, and that's gotta be scraping the bottom of the barrel. :) The 92%/.75x viewfinder sucks, IMO. They also can't make up their mind whether there are 17 or 19 custom functions.I like the data imprinting, the build quality, the wireless flash, and the 6 AF points. I'm wondering about MLU and flash exp. comp. chris - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
Re: News from PMA - MZ-S and other stuff
Mike, Mike, Mike... I've been forcing my wife to look at every photo of this camera that has appeared on the web, so she has become quite numb to it. I could have a whole fleet of them in here and she wouldn't notice. Doug "be prepared" Brewer At 6:12 PM -08002/10/01, -=Mike=- caused thus to appear: >Ahhh crap! >It's far too different from my ZX-5n. My wife will surely >notice that I have a new camera. What to do, what to do? > >I just gotta have it though! > >-=Mike=- >In the Pacific Northwet -- Douglas Forrest Brewer Ashwood Lake Photography [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.alphoto.com - This message is from the Pentax-Discuss Mail List. To unsubscribe, go to http://www.pdml.net and follow the directions. Don't forget to visit the Pentax Users' Gallery at http://pug.komkon.org .
