Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
Hi Frank ... Didn't see the original post. I'm of mixed feelings about this one. My first comment is that the tonality is awful and really needs to be less contrasty and show some more detail, which I know is within the photo. I like the statement made by the background. However, not showing Leah's eyes, her not looking wither at the camera, or at something, lessens the impact that this portrait could have had. I like the potential, but not the execution or the final statement. The background and the piercings are at odds with the posture, and if you wanted to show the softer side of Leah, I'm not sure that the background you chose does the best job. I guess I feel an ambiguity ... which isn't a negative in and of itself, but I don't think it adds to the portrait. My feeling about the ambiguity may change ... Hi! http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3289593size=lg I'm not sure what I think about this crop, so I'll post the uncropped version in a day or so, to see if anyone may want to give cropping their best shot (you'll see why I think it needs a crop when you see the full-frame version).
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
Shel Belinkoff wrote: Hi Frank ... Didn't see the original post. I'm of mixed feelings about this one. My first comment is that the tonality is awful and really needs to be less contrasty and show some more detail, which I know is within the photo. I like the statement made by the background. However, not showing Leah's eyes, her not looking wither at the camera, or at something, lessens the impact that this portrait could have had. I like the potential, but not the execution or the final statement. The background and the piercings are at odds with the posture, and if you wanted to show the softer side of Leah, I'm not sure that the background you chose does the best job. I guess I feel an ambiguity ... which isn't a negative in and of itself, but I don't think it adds to the portrait. My feeling about the ambiguity may change ... I quite like the ambiguity. Classic teenage angst. Wanting to belong and yet to be different. Confident but unsure. It highlights, for me, what I loathed about being physically that age. I'm still there, mentally Curious about what's cropped. Presumably something in her hands? Hi! http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3289593size=lg I'm not sure what I think about this crop, so I'll post the uncropped version in a day or so, to see if anyone may want to give cropping their best shot (you'll see why I think it needs a crop when you see the full-frame version).
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
Hi Frank, I missed this the first time through as well. I like the crop and the pose. It's an interesting shot of an interesting person. However, I'm not very fond of the direct flash effect. Was the ceiling low enough for a bounce here? That might serve you better. On Apr 18, 2005, at 5:13 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Hi! http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3289593size=lg I'm not sure what I think about this crop, so I'll post the uncropped version in a day or so, to see if anyone may want to give cropping their best shot (you'll see why I think it needs a crop when you see the full-frame version).
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
I like the picture. I think the physical background provides a metaphorical background which helps to explain the person she is (or at least that is what it suggests to me). I don't mind her looking down. She looks as though she is considering something, and will look up in a moment with her response. The picture wouldn't work for every model, but her face suggests strength, intelligence, and humour. An interesting person caught at a particular phase on life's journey. John On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:16:48 -0400, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Frank, I missed this the first time through as well. I like the crop and the pose. It's an interesting shot of an interesting person. However, I'm not very fond of the direct flash effect. Was the ceiling low enough for a bounce here? That might serve you better. On Apr 18, 2005, at 5:13 AM, Shel Belinkoff wrote: Hi! http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3289593size=lg I'm not sure what I think about this crop, so I'll post the uncropped version in a day or so, to see if anyone may want to give cropping their best shot (you'll see why I think it needs a crop when you see the full-frame version). -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.16 - Release Date: 18/04/2005
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
On 4/18/05, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Frank, I missed this the first time through as well. I like the crop and the pose. It's an interesting shot of an interesting person. However, I'm not very fond of the direct flash effect. Was the ceiling low enough for a bounce here? That might serve you better. No, bounce flash wasn't an option. It was taken in an old warehouse/factory loft, and the ceilings were at least 16 feet, and dark wood to boot. I shot with my 135mm, so I was some distance from her, and I don't think with my flash, bounce would have provided enough light at that distance, with that ceiling. Since it was a candid shot, studio flashes and umbrellas (which I neither own nor know how to use) were not an option. Glad that you liked it, other than the lighting. Thanks for commenting. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
On 4/18/05, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Frank ... Didn't see the original post. I'm of mixed feelings about this one. My first comment is that the tonality is awful and really needs to be less contrasty and show some more detail, which I know is within the photo. You know, I opened it up a bit, but ended up not touching the levels at all. It just looked better to me that way. I kind of like the contrasty look, maybe because I like the PJ look (as I think Paul Stenquist called it WRT another of my flash portraits) for that kind of candid portrait. I like the statement made by the background. However, not showing Leah's eyes, her not looking wither at the camera, or at something, lessens the impact that this portrait could have had. I like the potential, but not the execution or the final statement. The background and the piercings are at odds with the posture, and if you wanted to show the softer side of Leah, I'm not sure that the background you chose does the best job. I guess I feel an ambiguity ... which isn't a negative in and of itself, but I don't think it adds to the portrait. My feeling about the ambiguity may change ... H... I'm not sure what to say. I was initially going to say that I didn't choose either her posture or the background, but that would be wrong. Let's say that I reacted to what was there, and snapped when it looked right. She didn't know that I had the camera on her, and with the 135mm, I was maybe 15 feet away, in a crowded room. I had the camera on her for maybe 30 seconds, and when she looked down, I felt it was the right time to snap. So I guess I did choose, but I'm not sure how conscious I was about why I thought (or felt) it was right. It may be that the things I like about the photo are greatly influenced by what I know of Leah, how she tries to present herself to the world, and how different she seems in the photo. But, those things don't make a photo good or bad, I guess. Thanks for some thought provoking insights, Shel. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
On 4/18/05, mike wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I quite like the ambiguity. Classic teenage angst. I think she may be in her early/mid 20's - not that she can't still have teenage angst at that age g. Wanting to belong and yet to be different. Confident but unsure. It highlights, for me, what I loathed about being physically that age. I'm still there, mentally Aren't we all? Well, I am, anyway. Curious about what's cropped. Presumably something in her hands? I'll post the uncropped photo later today, in all likelyhood. Yes, she is holding something, and there's a person to her right (left side of the frame). I'm still not sure if I like the crop or the full frame version. Thanks for taking the time to look and comment, Mike. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
On 4/18/05, John Forbes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like the picture. I think the physical background provides a metaphorical background which helps to explain the person she is (or at least that is what it suggests to me). I don't mind her looking down. She looks as though she is considering something, and will look up in a moment with her response. The picture wouldn't work for every model, but her face suggests strength, intelligence, and humour. An interesting person caught at a particular phase on life's journey. Thanks, John. Glad you enjoyed it. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
Frank, Interesting 'do'. I feel that the sort of stark lighting ads some tension that's appropriate for this image. The faint Mona Lisa grin hints at her feeling of success with her 'look'. Jack --- frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3289593size=lg I'm not sure what I think about this crop, so I'll post the uncropped version in a day or so, to see if anyone may want to give cropping their best shot (you'll see why I think it needs a crop when you see the full-frame version). Anyway, thanks in advance for your comments. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
Given the circumstances I like the lighting as well. The direct flash does give you that fifties Speed Graphic look. That's a good thing at times. On 4/18/05, Paul Stenquist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Frank, I missed this the first time through as well. I like the crop and the pose. It's an interesting shot of an interesting person. However, I'm not very fond of the direct flash effect. Was the ceiling low enough for a bounce here? That might serve you better. No, bounce flash wasn't an option. It was taken in an old warehouse/factory loft, and the ceilings were at least 16 feet, and dark wood to boot. I shot with my 135mm, so I was some distance from her, and I don't think with my flash, bounce would have provided enough light at that distance, with that ceiling. Since it was a candid shot, studio flashes and umbrellas (which I neither own nor know how to use) were not an option. Glad that you liked it, other than the lighting. Thanks for commenting. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
On 18/4/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED], discombobulated, unleashed: Given the circumstances I like the lighting as well. The direct flash does give you that fifties Speed Graphic look. That's a good thing at times. Paul you read my mind. Given that, it works nicely for me. Good job Frank. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
On 4/18/05, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul you read my mind. Given that, it works nicely for me. Good job Frank. Thanks, Cotty. Glad you enjoyed it. And, thank you, too, Paul, for your amendment given the lighting situation g. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
Hi! http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3289593size=lg I'm not sure what I think about this crop, so I'll post the uncropped version in a day or so, to see if anyone may want to give cropping their best shot (you'll see why I think it needs a crop when you see the full-frame version). Frank, the way she looks, I mean piercings and hairstyle, makes me think that she will always look straight into the eyes of whatever life will throw at her. You know - that rebellious strong-willed kind of attitude. Here it is anything but. Which gives strange impression to this work. Also the little guy behind her asking Do you want this war? and her looking down does not add up very nicely. Either I am trying to read too much here, or you somehow made some mistakes... Just my cents... Boris
Re: PAW: Portrait of Leah
On 4/18/05, Boris Liberman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, the way she looks, I mean piercings and hairstyle, makes me think that she will always look straight into the eyes of whatever life will throw at her. You know - that rebellious strong-willed kind of attitude. Here it is anything but. Which gives strange impression to this work. Also the little guy behind her asking Do you want this war? and her looking down does not add up very nicely. Either I am trying to read too much here, or you somehow made some mistakes... Just my cents... Thanks, Boris. I appreciate your thoughts. I know Leah a little bit, and she's one of those who likes to show a tough exterior, but there's a soft, vulnerable side to her that comes out once you get to know her a little bit. One of the reasons I'm a bit partial to this photo is exactly for the apparent contradiction between the piercings and the shy, demure look on her face. Both are real facets of her personality. As for the background, well, I thought it was interesting (especially the word greed behind her). I would never call her greedy, but maybe that has more to do with human nature in general than her specifically. Or, maybe it's just a word on the wall... vbg As for whether I made some mistakes, well, I'm just recording what was there at that time, for better or worse. vbg Anyway, again, thanks for commenting. I'm glad the photo made you think. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Frank, track bikes. So, since you asked, you have to sit through this. Take notes, there'll be a short quiz afterwards. vbg Track Bikes 101: nice story, I appreciate it. Cheers, Bedo.
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:33:15 +1300, David Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 4, 2005, at 12:48 PM, frank theriault wrote: Neither of those people are me, but the Rossin is my bike. It's what they use on velodromes, like in the Olympics. One gear, no freewheel (so you can't coast) and no brakes. My brother-in-law has a track bike (Avanti Pista). Nice! Not long after he bought it he found out the hard way what happens when you're not quite used to that non-freewheel hub. Beyond the no brakes thing, the no coasting thing takes some getting used to. I know many who've given fixes an honest try, and it just isn't for them. That's why there are many types of bikes... It doesn't help that he owns three other bikes (one road bike, one mountain bike and something that appears to be a bit of everything all in one). No doubt. I went of a few longish rides this summer, borrowing a friend's road bike, and it's really weird, all of a sudden being able to coast. Even more surprising, I found that it took me several minutes to get used to riding my fix again when I got back on it. The people I work with are pretty cycle-crazy (mostly mountain bikers). One guy has been known to ride his penny farthing into work! I'd love to try one of those one day - that and a unicycle (those are supposed to be hard to learn) Cheers, - Dave (yes I bike to work too but haven't been up the hill for a while) That's why they have gears! g BTW, just looking at my post that you quoted, I may have been a bit misleading when I said that track bikes like mine are used on the Olympic velodrome. Nowadays, anyone of Olympic calibre is using carbon fibre frames, not steel or aluminium. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 21:18:57 -0800, David Oswald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the great explanation. I can understand and appreciate the beauty and simplicity, but nevertheless can't imagine what it must be like to ride a fixed, for a number of reasons, all of which seem to be the reasons you love it. Enjoy! (and nice pictures). Thanks, Dave. BTW, I used to think that riding a fix in the city was totally insane, until I tried it. Being used to gears, one would think that it's really, really hard to get around with only one, especially getting around quickly. It's not (counter-intuitive though it seems). I bought my first fixed gear for the frame only. I'd just broken my frame, and a friend of mine had a road bike converted to a fixie (with a front brake). I was going to put the components from my road bike on his frame, but he said, try riding it as a fix, just for the weekend, just to see what you think. For about an hour or two it was very intimidating, but then it got more and more comfortable. By Monday morning I was hooked, and I've never owned a bike with a freewheel since (that was about 7 or 8 years ago). I must say, though, as I've been going on longer training rides with some racer buddies starting last summer, I'm thinking that a nice road bike would be a good idea. g cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:33:15 +1300, David Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The people I work with are pretty cycle-crazy (mostly mountain bikers). One guy has been known to ride his penny farthing into work! I'd love to try one of those one day - that and a unicycle (those are supposed to be hard to learn) Veering ever more off-topic: What do they call a penny farthing bike in the U.S.? Surely it isn't penny farthing since those terms don't mean anything to most people here. -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Ah, an ordinary! I have always wanted to ride one of those. Hey, Frank, you ought to get one. They have no freewheel, and think of the view you would have in traffic. The perfect courier bike (grin). graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- David Mann wrote: The people I work with are pretty cycle-crazy (mostly mountain bikers). One guy has been known to ride his penny farthing into work! -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Ordinary bicycle or just ordinary, as opposed the a safety bicycle (the kind we are used to) which was safer since you did not have so far to fall and headers were not as likely. I studied up on them once wanting to get one until I found out they cost more than the motorcycle I was riding at the time. graywolf http://www.graywolfphoto.com Idiot Proof == Expert Proof --- Mark Roberts wrote: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 20:33:15 +1300, David Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The people I work with are pretty cycle-crazy (mostly mountain bikers). One guy has been known to ride his penny farthing into work! I'd love to try one of those one day - that and a unicycle (those are supposed to be hard to learn) Veering ever more off-topic: What do they call a penny farthing bike in the U.S.? Surely it isn't penny farthing since those terms don't mean anything to most people here. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 3/4/2005
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:37:47 -0500, Mark Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Veering ever more off-topic: What do they call a penny farthing bike in the U.S.? Surely it isn't penny farthing since those terms don't mean anything to most people here. It's called a High Wheel. http://www.pedalinghistory.com/PHbikbio.htm -- Scott Loveless Born free. Taxed to death.
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 09:36:48 -0500, Scott Loveless [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank, Excellent! I was immediately struck with a sense of exasperation. While the photo does seem busy, it fits. After all, most bike couriers work in busy places, with lots of traffic, lots of buildings, and lots of people. Certainly enough to wear me out. As there is no one else in the frame, I get the impression this was taken at the end of her day as the city winds down for the night. Technical merits aside (I'm not qualified to comment on that, anyway), you've certainly captured the mood. Was the out of focus trash can in the fore ground left in for a reason? I like it there, but was wondering if you intended it to mean something specific. I knew there was one more post on this thread that I wanted to reply to, and this is it. vbg It was WRT the trash can you mentioned, Scott. Actually, I think it's Kiki's courier bag, sitting on a bench. I didn't leave it in for any other reason than that I don't like cropping, unless absolutely necessary. Of course, there are those that think that cropping is absolutely necessary in every photo; I'm not one of them. vbg Thanks for you kind comments, and a blanket thanks to everyone else who commented to whom I didn't specifically respond. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Quoting Cesar [EMAIL PROTECTED]: No one has pointed out that this is basically a bicycle very similar to the one we all learned to ride on - or those who had the opportunity, like the tricycle some had... You may have a point wrt the tricycle, César, but I specifically remember there *were* brakes on the bicycle I learned to ride on. And all bicycles in my life since, for that matter.
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Mar 5, 2005, at 1:40 PM, frank theriault wrote: The people I work with are pretty cycle-crazy (mostly mountain bikers). One guy has been known to ride his penny farthing into work! I'd love to try one of those one day - that and a unicycle (those are supposed to be hard to learn) I've seen video footage of some crazy nutcase who does mountain biking on a unicycle. I'd actually like to have a go on one but I don't see myself succeeding in any small amount of time. I certainly can't balance on my bike at the lights yet. Oh and the penny farthing enthusiasts here have a yearly event where they ride up a road on one of our hills. The winner is whoever goes the furthest before dropping. It's quite impressive how well they do considering the lack of gears. - Dave (yes I bike to work too but haven't been up the hill for a while) That's why they have gears! g Yeah I know ;) I'm lucky to live in a city that's totally flat, but with hills at one end. Great for the daily commute with the opportunity for real exercise during the weekend (or summer evenings). Maybe I'll go out tomorrow if the weather is good. BTW, just looking at my post that you quoted, I may have been a bit misleading when I said that track bikes like mine are used on the Olympic velodrome. Nowadays, anyone of Olympic calibre is using carbon fibre frames, not steel or aluminium. Yes, that's right. I remember seeing a news item at Olympics-time that was all about Sarah Ulmer's fancy new custom bike. I bet she'd still beat me riding a steel 10-speed with a rusty chain and dodgy bearings. Cheers, - Dave http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 The only thing I don't like is the intruding out-of-focus blob at the bottom of the frame (center). BTW: It looks like Kiki's bike doesn't have any brakes or gears. Is she another track bike loony, er... I mean aficionado? ;-) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On 2/3/05, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 Thanks in advance to all who look. yeah, good catch Frank. Definitely caught the mood there lad. Nice one. Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 20:45:23 -0500, frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Frank, Excellent! I was immediately struck with a sense of exasperation. While the photo does seem busy, it fits. After all, most bike couriers work in busy places, with lots of traffic, lots of buildings, and lots of people. Certainly enough to wear me out. As there is no one else in the frame, I get the impression this was taken at the end of her day as the city winds down for the night. Technical merits aside (I'm not qualified to comment on that, anyway), you've certainly captured the mood. Was the out of focus trash can in the fore ground left in for a reason? I like it there, but was wondering if you intended it to mean something specific. -- Scott Loveless Born free. Taxed to death.
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Hi Frank, I quite like it. I think the juxtaposition of the curves in the bike and Kiki is interesting :-) The photograph does well portray her mood, even without the description, which makes it a good portait for me! Few things that could be improved though: tonality - some dodging of the face, and the overall contrast is too high I think the curves - I would like if there was more of the picture to the right, it's a bit tight. bottom - maybe (I don't know if possible or not!) it would be nicer if the bottom of photo was cleaner - if you had perhaps been a bit higher (though that might have changed the perspecitve too much for the juxtaposition to work - I don't know). Overall, improve the tonality, IMNSHO, and it (is already) will be a great portrait! Good light! fra
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Frank, I can't get it to load. Did you move or delete it? Rick --- frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 Thanks in advance to all who look. More thanks to those who comment. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson __ Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday! Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
frank theriault wrote on 3/2/2005, 8:45 PM: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 It's not bad but a tighter shot, framing just her face, would have been more to my liking to show her emotion. -- Christian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
This is an off-topic question, but does that bike have any brakes or gears? How does one stop? Christian wrote: frank theriault wrote on 3/2/2005, 8:45 PM: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 It's not bad but a tighter shot, framing just her face, would have been more to my liking to show her emotion.
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:47:09 -0800, David Oswald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an off-topic question, but does that bike have any brakes or gears? How does one stop? Minimalism at it's finest, and most dangerous. Note the snazzy helmet. -- Scott Loveless Born free. Taxed to death.
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Okay, finally got it to download after a few reboots and running Norton and SpyBot. As others have commented, Frank, this is a more cluttered than your usual composition, but it is very effective. I like the shallow depth-of-field. The photo just radiates Kiki's fatigue. Very nice! Rick --- frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 Thanks in advance to all who look. More thanks to those who comment. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
In a message dated 3/2/2005 5:47:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 Thanks in advance to all who look. More thanks to those who comment. cheers, frank I like it. But the contrast is a little on the dark/too gray side. I think her face needs to be dodged a bit to show up a little more. IMHO, then it would be a stronger picture. HTH! Marnie aka Doe
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On 3/3/05, David Oswald, discombobulated, unleashed: This is an off-topic question, but does that bike have any brakes or gears? How does one stop? RORFL. This is *Frank Theriault* you are talking to here Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:47:09 -0800, David Oswald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an off-topic question, but does that bike have any brakes or gears? How does one stop? (everyone who's already heard the fix gear love-in may tune out and delete; we have a newbie here...) Sorry, David, I know you're not really a newbie, but you've not been here long enough to know that I love fixed gear bikes, especially track bikes. So, since you asked, you have to sit through this. Take notes, there'll be a short quiz afterwards. vbg Track Bikes 101: Here's my bike: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2870605 Neither of those people are me, but the Rossin is my bike. It's what they use on velodromes, like in the Olympics. One gear, no freewheel (so you can't coast) and no brakes. Brakes, gears, changers, all that stuff has mass. Take 'em off, and you have a lighter bike. Fine, you say, makes sense on a track, isn't it insane to ride that way on the street? Well, no, not really. One can stop easier than one thinks, using just your legs to slow down the pedals. Really. Once you know that your stopping distances are a bit longer, you ride accordingly, and change your reflex from brake! to turn! - you're always aware of an out, just like blading. What's the advantage on the street? Simplicity of mainenance, ease of repair, quick acceleration. That's why lots of couriers use them. If you go back to the pic, the bike peeking into the frame on the right has front brakes, and I would advise anyone riding a fix gear bike for the first time to run front brakes (or both front and back) for minimum one year before going brakeless. Here's my friend Vivian, not a courier, and accountant who couriered to put herself through school: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736 A better view of a track bike with a front brake. And, here's another view of my bike, just 'cause I think it's so pretty (even though you can't really see the drivetrain): http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2938717size=lg So, there you have it. Some (apparently, like Mr. Loveless vbg) think it rather dangerous to ride fixes in town. I would beg to differ, if only because I've ridden a track bike now for about 8 years, some 6 years brakeless, as a courier in Toronto. I've ridden road bikes, mountain bikes and track bikes in town, and none is inherently more or less dangerous than another; knowing the limits of both rider and machine is what's important. There. Aren't you glad you asked? vbg cheers, frank PS: There's not really a quiz now, I just said that to get you to pay attention. LOL -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Thanks for the great explanation. I can understand and appreciate the beauty and simplicity, but nevertheless can't imagine what it must be like to ride a fixed, for a number of reasons, all of which seem to be the reasons you love it. Enjoy! (and nice pictures). frank theriault wrote: On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:47:09 -0800, David Oswald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is an off-topic question, but does that bike have any brakes or gears? How does one stop? (everyone who's already heard the fix gear love-in may tune out and delete; we have a newbie here...) Sorry, David, I know you're not really a newbie, but you've not been here long enough to know that I love fixed gear bikes, especially track bikes. So, since you asked, you have to sit through this. Take notes, there'll be a short quiz afterwards. vbg Track Bikes 101: Here's my bike: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2870605 Neither of those people are me, but the Rossin is my bike. It's what they use on velodromes, like in the Olympics. One gear, no freewheel (so you can't coast) and no brakes. Brakes, gears, changers, all that stuff has mass. Take 'em off, and you have a lighter bike. Fine, you say, makes sense on a track, isn't it insane to ride that way on the street? Well, no, not really. One can stop easier than one thinks, using just your legs to slow down the pedals. Really. Once you know that your stopping distances are a bit longer, you ride accordingly, and change your reflex from brake! to turn! - you're always aware of an out, just like blading. What's the advantage on the street? Simplicity of mainenance, ease of repair, quick acceleration. That's why lots of couriers use them. If you go back to the pic, the bike peeking into the frame on the right has front brakes, and I would advise anyone riding a fix gear bike for the first time to run front brakes (or both front and back) for minimum one year before going brakeless. Here's my friend Vivian, not a courier, and accountant who couriered to put herself through school: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736 A better view of a track bike with a front brake. And, here's another view of my bike, just 'cause I think it's so pretty (even though you can't really see the drivetrain): http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2938717size=lg So, there you have it. Some (apparently, like Mr. Loveless vbg) think it rather dangerous to ride fixes in town. I would beg to differ, if only because I've ridden a track bike now for about 8 years, some 6 years brakeless, as a courier in Toronto. I've ridden road bikes, mountain bikes and track bikes in town, and none is inherently more or less dangerous than another; knowing the limits of both rider and machine is what's important. There. Aren't you glad you asked? vbg cheers, frank PS: There's not really a quiz now, I just said that to get you to pay attention. LOL
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
No one has pointed out that this is basically a bicycle very similar to the one we all learned to ride on - or those who had the opportunity, like the tricycle some had... Bianchi owner, but no fixed gear yet... César Panama City, Florida David Oswald wrote: Thanks for the great explanation. I can understand and appreciate the beauty and simplicity, but nevertheless can't imagine what it must be like to ride a fixed, for a number of reasons, all of which seem to be the reasons you love it. Enjoy! (and nice pictures). frank theriault wrote: On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 07:47:09 -0800, David Oswald [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip (everyone who's already heard the fix gear love-in may tune out and delete; we have a newbie here...) snip cheers, frank PS: There's not really a quiz now, I just said that to get you to pay attention. LOL
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Mar 4, 2005, at 12:48 PM, frank theriault wrote: Neither of those people are me, but the Rossin is my bike. It's what they use on velodromes, like in the Olympics. One gear, no freewheel (so you can't coast) and no brakes. My brother-in-law has a track bike (Avanti Pista). Not long after he bought it he found out the hard way what happens when you're not quite used to that non-freewheel hub. It doesn't help that he owns three other bikes (one road bike, one mountain bike and something that appears to be a bit of everything all in one). The people I work with are pretty cycle-crazy (mostly mountain bikers). One guy has been known to ride his penny farthing into work! Cheers, - Dave (yes I bike to work too but haven't been up the hill for a while) http://www.digistar.com/~dmann/
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
photo.net is not responding tonight, Frank. I'll try again tomorrow. This happened last night too, as I recall! Hmmm. keith whaley frank theriault wrote: I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 Thanks in advance to all who look. More thanks to those who comment. cheers, frank
RE: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Hi Frank I don't think this one makes the cut. Too many distracting elements, perhaps even the wrong perspective to show the emotion of a hard day (capturing body language is sometimes difficult, and especially so when there are numerous other elements to contend with, such as the OOF handle bars bisecting Kiki's torso. Good try, and certainly worth an effort. Of course, I must ask the usual question: how many other frames did you shoot? Shel [Original Message] From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
I like it. It's a nicely composed frame and an interesting shot. Good work. Paul I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 Thanks in advance to all who look. More thanks to those who comment. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 03:07:34 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I like it. It's a nicely composed frame and an interesting shot. Good work. Paul Thanks, Paul, So far there's one yay, one nay and one abstention (well, photo.net was being persnickity for Keith). I appreciate your input, and I'm glad you liked it. thanks, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
This one seems a bit busy, not your usual relatively simple strong compositions. Not to mention that the main subject is in focus. frank theriault wrote: I'm not sure about this one. I liked it as a contact, now that it's all blowed up, I'm just not sure. Maybe I like it, maybe I don't. What's your reaction to it? Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 Thanks in advance to all who look. More thanks to those who comment. cheers, frank -- I can understand why mankind hasn't given up war. During a war you get to drive tanks through the sides of buildings and shoot foreigners - two things that are usually frowned on during peacetime. --P.J. O'Rourke
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 23:15:07 -0500, Peter J. Alling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This one seems a bit busy, not your usual relatively simple strong compositions. Not to mention that the main subject is in focus. Thanks for your input. Sorry about the focus. g cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Kiki
Hi! Kiki's a bike courier, and she was having a bad day when I took this. I was going to call it either Kiki's Bad Day or (tongue in cheek) Kiki Prays to the Bike Gods or something like that. Anyway, here it is: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=3164457 I think it just works. In fact, I think you could've omitted the story, Frank. There is very certain yet very subtle sense of a world falling onto her here. The tilt of the street, the pose, the facial expression. My wife also thinks it works. There are some distracting elements on the bottom of the frame, but they're very minor nuisance. I think you just did it :). Boris
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I sent a jpeg to Vivian, and she liked it too, and that's even more important than what I think. ;-) -- Mark Roberts Photography and writing www.robertstech.com
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:22:55 -0400 (EDT), Jerome Reyes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736size=lg This is one of my favorite in your bike collection, yet, frank. Very nicely done. - jerome Well, thank you, jerome! Even though it's not perfect (as we all decided earlier, the aperture could have been opened up a bit more to deal with that distracting background a bit better), I have to admit that I like it. I sent a jpeg to Vivian, and she liked it too, and that's even more important than what I think. thanks for looking and commenting, and thanks even more for liking vbg, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
Damn, it's nice and sharp with good tonality and contrast, about the only thing theriaultian about it is the relatively unconventional composition. frank theriault wrote: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736size=lg Comments, as always, are welcomed and encouraged. thanks! -frank -- I can understand why mankind hasn't given up war. During a war you get to drive tanks through the sides of buildings and shoot foreigners - two things that are usually frowned on during peacetime. --P.J. O'Rourke
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
Sunday, October 24, 2004, 6:57:23 PM, Shel wrote: SB Gotcha and that 90mm is a little jewel, iirc. But, as long as you're SB lusting, there's also the little, skinny, tele-elmarit, with a max aperture SB of 2.8. Y'may as well lust after that one. It should work on the CL ... SB BTW, what's going rate for the 90 Elmar C? Do you know if it's even SB smaller than the skinny tele-elmarit (for which I'm lusting even though I SB have the larger, newer version). IIRC the going rate for Elmar-C or Rokkor-C are lower than the corresponding (Tele-)Elmarit 2.8 lenses, and the lens is also smaller. Yep, it would be an interesting addition, my longest is a 50mm. I am also considering a 3.5/90 Apo-Lanthar from Cosina/Voigtlnder. Not expensive either and new. Good light! fra
RE: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
Hi Frank ... This popped into my mailbox just as i was about to log off. Glad to see it. I like the concept. Essentially a nice portrait framing Vivian within the frame of the bike. The background, however, is distracting. It's too busy, and takes away from the impact of the subject. Try shooting with wider apertures when making such portraits. A little softening of the background would go a long way to improve this and similar photographs. Having Vivian stand by the bike rack is a nice touch, yet the rack and the numerous bikes behind her, while adding a bit to the story, take away from the impact of the portrait. Again, a wider aperture, more selective focus, which would still show the bikes and the rack, would be preferable. Now that you've got Photoshop, you can load up the pic and play around with blurring the background and other such manipulations. PS is a good tool for seeing how your photos might look if photographed or presented differently without the need of making numerous trial prints or shooting a gazillion frames of film. While I know that what I'm going to suggest is not what you had in mind when you made this pic, for I'm sure you wanted to show more of the environment, pics like this sometimes look great, and make a stronger statement, when photographed against a more neutral background, such as a wall. There are then fewer distracting elements and the viewer's attention is, literally, focused on the subject. Well, just a few random thoughts. And you got me to think about a few of my bike pics, which I've not looked at for some time. Thanks for posting this one ... it's a nice way to greet the morning, along with my cats and a cup of hot Mariage freres French breakfast tea ;-)) Shel [Original Message] From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736size=lg Comments, as always, are welcomed and encouraged.
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
On 24/10/04, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736size=lg Comments, as always, are welcomed and encouraged. Very nice but think 'background', mate. If you're out and about, borrow a box to stand and and get your butt in the air baby. Look down at her (and the bikes in the rack). Of course this may be a putrid vantage point for you and you can therefore tell me to get my butt on a bike and pedal off into the focal distance ;-) Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 17:17:39 +0100, Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 24/10/04, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736size=lg Comments, as always, are welcomed and encouraged. Very nice but think 'background', mate. If you're out and about, borrow a box to stand and and get your butt in the air baby. Look down at her (and the bikes in the rack). Of course this may be a putrid vantage point for you and you can therefore tell me to get my butt on a bike and pedal off into the focal distance ;-) Point taken. At the time I took it I was thinking of getting all the Urban Crap (street, buildings, cars) in there for atmosphere. I think I shot it at about f4.0, but I now think ideally I should have opened up wide (it's an f2.0 lens) to get the background more OOF. I thought at the time that getting ~too~ much of the bikes in there would be too cluttered with bikes, but you may be right. In retrospect I'd like to have shot the way you suggest, and also with my framing but at f2.0, as I think either of those would improved on what I have. Thanks for looking, and I appreciate your thoughts and well-reasoned critique, Cotty. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
Good point about changing vantage points. While I'm not sure the box thing would be ideal for ~this~ shot, your point is well made. Too often the photog shoots from a typical standing position, camera to the eye. We certainly agree on the background here, too. Shel [Original Message] From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: pentax list [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/24/2004 9:18:52 AM Subject: Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736size=lg Comments, as always, are welcomed and encouraged. Very nice but think 'background', mate. If you're out and about, borrow a box to stand and and get your butt in the air baby. Look down at her (and the bikes in the rack). Of course this may be a putrid vantage point for you and you can therefore tell me to get my butt on a bike and pedal off into the focal distance ;-)
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
On 24/10/04, frank theriault, discombobulated, unleashed: Thanks for looking, and I appreciate your thoughts and well-reasoned critique, Cotty. Now will you marry me? Cheers, Cotty ___/\__ || (O) | People, Places, Pastiche ||=|http://www.cottysnaps.com _
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
You could also use a longer lens Shel [Original Message] From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736size=lg Comments, as always, are welcomed and encouraged. Very nice but think 'background', mate. If you're out and about, borrow a box to stand and and get your butt in the air baby. Look down at her (and the bikes in the rack). Point taken. At the time I took it I was thinking of getting all the Urban Crap (street, buildings, cars) in there for atmosphere. I think I shot it at about f4.0, but I now think ideally I should have opened up wide (it's an f2.0 lens) to get the background more OOF. I thought at the time that getting ~too~ much of the bikes in there would be too cluttered with bikes, but you may be right. In retrospect I'd like to have shot the way you suggest, and also with my framing but at f2.0, as I think either of those would improved on what I have. Thanks for looking, and I appreciate your thoughts and well-reasoned critique, Cotty.
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:34:14 -0700, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Frank ... This popped into my mailbox just as i was about to log off. Glad to see it. I like the concept. Essentially a nice portrait framing Vivian within the frame of the bike. The background, however, is distracting. It's too busy, and takes away from the impact of the subject. Try shooting with wider apertures when making such portraits. A little softening of the background would go a long way to improve this and similar photographs. Having Vivian stand by the bike rack is a nice touch, yet the rack and the numerous bikes behind her, while adding a bit to the story, take away from the impact of the portrait. Again, a wider aperture, more selective focus, which would still show the bikes and the rack, would be preferable. Now that you've got Photoshop, you can load up the pic and play around with blurring the background and other such manipulations. PS is a good tool for seeing how your photos might look if photographed or presented differently without the need of making numerous trial prints or shooting a gazillion frames of film. While I know that what I'm going to suggest is not what you had in mind when you made this pic, for I'm sure you wanted to show more of the environment, pics like this sometimes look great, and make a stronger statement, when photographed against a more neutral background, such as a wall. There are then fewer distracting elements and the viewer's attention is, literally, focused on the subject. Well, just a few random thoughts. And you got me to think about a few of my bike pics, which I've not looked at for some time. Thanks for posting this one ... it's a nice way to greet the morning, along with my cats and a cup of hot Mariage freres French breakfast tea ;-)) Thanks, Shel. I shot this IIRC at f4.0, but it wasn't wide enough. I should have just opened it all the way to 2.0. I was thinking that at the time, but both of us were in a hurry to be off to other places, and I only shot two frames. If there's one thing I have to do, IT'S SHOOT MORE FRAMES of a particular subject. Take another minute or two, and fool around with apertures, etc, to give myself more choice. That especially makes sense now that I'm getting contacts, and maybe only blowing up one or two on average per roll - it's really not going to cost me money by wasting frames if I'm only getting one or two printed either way, right? I do like the shot (and I think Vivian will too, when she gets to work tomorrow and sees the jpeg I sent her), but you're right, it could certainly be improved upon. Thanks for your thoughts as always. cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:34:52 -0700, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could also use a longer lens Not with that camera... At least, not until I get that 90mm Elmar C that I lust over. vbg cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
Gotcha and that 90mm is a little jewel, iirc. But, as long as you're lusting, there's also the little, skinny, tele-elmarit, with a max aperture of 2.8. Y'may as well lust after that one. It should work on the CL ... BTW, what's going rate for the 90 Elmar C? Do you know if it's even smaller than the skinny tele-elmarit (for which I'm lusting even though I have the larger, newer version). Shel [Original Message] From: frank theriault [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/24/2004 9:40:29 AM Subject: Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:34:52 -0700, Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could also use a longer lens Not with that camera... At least, not until I get that 90mm Elmar C that I lust over. vbg cheers, frank -- Sharpness is a bourgeois concept. -Henri Cartier-Bresson
Re: PAW: Portrait of Vivian
http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=2815736size=lg This is one of my favorite in your bike collection, yet, frank. Very nicely done. - jerome
Re: PAW - Portrait of Jack and Bobby Kennedy
--- Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This portrait of Jack and Bobby Kennedy was made in Mexico, shortly after Bobby's assassination. The scene was just as you see it, and, to me at least, it told a compelling story. Comments and criticisms are certainly welcome. http://home.earthlink.net/~sbelinkoff/bj4.html Shel Shel, I remember, as an 11 year old boy, waking up on the morning of June 6, 1968, hearing the awful news. It's now called the summer of love, but at the time it didn't feel like it to me. First, Martin Luther King Jr., then Bobby Kennedy. Images of American inner cities burning. Images of young men dying in Vietnam. The Democratic Convention. Even at 11, I felt that there was something very wrong. The feeling was that Bobby Kennedy would somehow lead the US and the World out of that mess, and that with him died the dream of a better society. I'm a lot older and more cynical now, and I realize that maybe things wouldn't have changed that much had Bobby Kennedy become president. But, at the time, he seemed like the last good chance. Shel, your photo brings back intense emotions for me. In and of itself, it is, of course, a powerful image. The icons of death surrounding the two busts are haunting, as is the mocking, laughing figure to the left of Jack. Did you arrange any of those figures, or did you photograph the scene as you found it? It's such a macabre display, it's almost unreal. I wonder what the person who set it up was thinking (if anything). Everything works for me here, from the composition to the relatively narrow DOF - this is a tremendous photograph, IMHO. I just hope that my emotions aren't colouring my objectivity with regard to my feelings regarding this image. cheers, frank = The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
Re: PAW - Portrait of Jack and Bobby Kennedy
--- Shel Belinkoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Frank Your emotions SHOULD color your interpretation and opinion ... at least that's how I see it. I didn't set this up ... what you see is exactly what I saw thru the window that day. I don't see the reclining woman as a mocking figure, rather, I see her more as a representative figure of the Kennedy's sexual escapades, another aspect of the story countering the more macabre death icons, something of the balance or contrast between life and death. When I first saw the scene I thought it may have been Marilyn Monroe, but I'm now more unsure of that, and just see her generally representing the women in their lives. Frank, I gotta tell you, it was a bit chilling when I first saw the setup thru the window, in the harsh light of the store. I think the Summer of Love was 1967 1968, sadly, was certainly not a year filled with love :-(( I don't know why I always get that wrong: of course '67 was the Summer of Love, not '68. Yeah, 1968 was anything but the Summer of Love. It was pretty much the year that the wheels fell off... Anyway, I like your take on the reclining figure. Of course, back then Jack's little escapades were only hinted at, and what was generally known then was, as it now seems, the tip of the iceberg. And, yes, of course one's emotions should colour how one feels when looking at a work. If we didn't feel anything, what would be the use of looking? I think what I meant (but didn't convey well) was that I was trying to differentiate the technical expertise from the emotional content. A futile (and possibly irrelvent) task, I know. I was just so overwhelmed by the image that I, for some reason, wanted to step back, and try for a moment to be detached. Which is a rather silly thing to do with art, isn't it? cheers, frank = The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer __ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
RE: PAW: portrait
Thanks, Frank! Glad you like it. :) -Original Message- From: frank theriault [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Intriguing!! At first blush, it could be a family snapshot, but after a second, one realizes that there's way more going on here. It has a certain low brow feel to it, yet the composition is amazing (I love the way the two bodies play off each other, the dark couch and white wall, I could go on...), and the sharp subject and out of focus background, including the female figure tell us that this ain't no ordinary photo. I think it's outstanding. Thanks, Amita. cheers, frank From: Amita Guha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Here's my entry for the week: http://www.beyondthepath.com/photos/misc/nate1.jpg
RE: PAW: portrait
Intriguing!! At first blush, it could be a family snapshot, but after a second, one realizes that there's way more going on here. It has a certain low brow feel to it, yet the composition is amazing (I love the way the two bodies play off each other, the dark couch and white wall, I could go on...), and the sharp subject and out of focus background, including the female figure tell us that this ain't no ordinary photo. I think it's outstanding. Thanks, Amita. cheers, frank The optimist thinks this is the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist fears it is true. -J. Robert Oppenheimer From: Amita Guha [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: PAW: portrait Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2004 17:16:44 -0500 Here's my entry for the week: http://www.beyondthepath.com/photos/misc/nate1.jpg _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca
RE: PAW: portrait
Re: Amita's entry: http://www.beyondthepath.com/photos/misc/nate1.jpg I found this through Frank's critique. I can't do as good a job as he did in discussing the photo, so I'll just say I really like it -- and leave it at that. ERN
