Re: Flickr as backup

[David Mann]

On Jul 4, 2015, at 11:21 pm, Ciprian Dorin Craciun  
wrote:

> P.S.:  If you are already using rsync, perhaps you should throw a look
> at `rdiff-backup`.

FWIW I’m using a similar utility called snapback2 for one of my servers.

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Flickr as backup

[Ciprian Dorin Craciun]

On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 11:18 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> One thing that I haven't figured out how to do efficiently with rsync is for
> it to track when I move a directory.
>
> I will upload photos into a generic (for this half of the year) directory,
> then move that shoot into a monthly directory.  So as far as I can tell
> rsync will either give me two copies, or will have to copy, delete, recopy
> at least once for every photo.


[Sorry for replying one month late, I'm shovelling through the mail queue.]  :)

rsync does know how to find "moved" files, if one uses **twice** the
`--fuzzy` option plus the `--copy-dest` and the `--delete-after`
options.

Basically, with your workflow, assuming you have an `inbox` folder
where you throw your "current" photos, all you need to specify is
`--copy-dest inbox`.

(Needless to say I haven't tested this, but according to the
documentation it does what you want.)

Ciprian.


P.S.:  If you are already using rsync, perhaps you should throw a look
at `rdiff-backup`.

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Re: Flickr as backup

[steve harley]

On 2015-06-15 16:26 , Larry Colen wrote:

Since Lightroom strongly prefers that you move directories from within
lightroom an excellent feature for lightroom would be the ability to
automatically mirror your raw files (and catalogs for that matter) on other
machines, SAMBA mounted drives, or even a second set of drives attached to
your own machine.


Aperture does that, well at least it can copy your files to a second 
destination, with the same folder structure, while adding them to a library; 
it doesn't mirror later changes


when i load images i always archive them to a server that way; periodically 
i run rsync -avun --delete to see if everything's working (those switches 
are for a dry run showing changed and missing files)


(Aperture still works fine, just isn't being further developed)



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Re: Flickr as backup

[Stan Halpin]

> On Jun 15, 2015, at 6:26 PM, Larry Colen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Eric Featherstone wrote:
>> On 15 June 2015 at 19:20, Larry Colen  wrote:
>>> Thanks.  I was aware of the delete option.  It would just mean that my
>>> backups get copied twice. Unless they end up in their final destination
>>> before the first rsync.  I could change my workflow a bit.  I like to not
>>> move the files from a shoot into the monthly directory until I'm done,
>>> because it makes it easier to tell which ones I haven't finished.
>> 
>> Ah, I see what you mean. No, I don't think rsync has anyway of doing
>> that, it's very much geared towards files rather than directory
>> structures.
> 
> Since Lightroom strongly prefers that you move directories from within 
> lightroom an excellent feature for lightroom would be the ability to 
> automatically mirror your raw files (and catalogs for that matter) on other 
> machines, SAMBA mounted drives, or even a second set of drives attached to 
> your own machine.
> 
> If they did it right, they could even move "deleted" backup copies to a 
> special trashcan and not piff it from the drive for some setable period of 
> time.
> 
> 

Where is the LIKE button?

Larry I totally agree but I would go one step further in my fantasizing:  think 
how wonderful it would be if after all these years and numerous major and minor 
version updates, LR could actually avoid importing files that have already been 
imported? Until that happens, I would not trust LR to mirror anything as I 
would likely wind up with a bunch of duplicate files on both the Main and 
Backup media.

stan


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Re: Flickr as backup

[Larry Colen]

Eric Featherstone wrote:

On 15 June 2015 at 19:20, Larry Colen  wrote:

Thanks.  I was aware of the delete option.  It would just mean that my
backups get copied twice. Unless they end up in their final destination
before the first rsync.  I could change my workflow a bit.  I like to not
move the files from a shoot into the monthly directory until I'm done,
because it makes it easier to tell which ones I haven't finished.


Ah, I see what you mean. No, I don't think rsync has anyway of doing
that, it's very much geared towards files rather than directory
structures.


Since Lightroom strongly prefers that you move directories from within 
lightroom an excellent feature for lightroom would be the ability to 
automatically mirror your raw files (and catalogs for that matter) on 
other machines, SAMBA mounted drives, or even a second set of drives 
attached to your own machine.


If they did it right, they could even move "deleted" backup copies to a 
special trashcan and not piff it from the drive for some setable period 
of time.







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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Featherstone]

On 15 June 2015 at 19:20, Larry Colen  wrote:
> Thanks.  I was aware of the delete option.  It would just mean that my
> backups get copied twice. Unless they end up in their final destination
> before the first rsync.  I could change my workflow a bit.  I like to not
> move the files from a shoot into the monthly directory until I'm done,
> because it makes it easier to tell which ones I haven't finished.

Ah, I see what you mean. No, I don't think rsync has anyway of doing
that, it's very much geared towards files rather than directory
structures.

-- 
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Larry Colen]

Eric Featherstone wrote:

On 13 June 2015 at 21:18, Larry Colen  wrote:

One thing that I haven't figured out how to do efficiently with rsync is for
it to track when I move a directory.


I think you want the --delete option


Thanks.  I was aware of the delete option.  It would just mean that my 
backups get copied twice. Unless they end up in their final destination 
before the first rsync.  I could change my workflow a bit.  I like to 
not move the files from a shoot into the monthly directory until I'm 
done, because it makes it easier to tell which ones I haven't finished.





 --deletedelete extraneous files from dest dirs

or one of its brethren

 --delete-before receiver deletes before transfer (default)
 --delete-during receiver deletes during xfer, not before
 --delete-after  receiver deletes after transfer, not before
 --delete-excluded   also delete excluded files from dest dirs

from: 
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/rsync.1.html




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Re: Flickr as backup

[Charles Robinson]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 14:12 , Eric Weir  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:
>> 
>> It's not perfect, but I'm already backing up actual copies of my RAW files 
>> with:
>> 
>> 1. Time Machine
>> 2. Crashplan (no speed issues here)
> 
> Probably doesn't need to be asked, but you don't find Crashplan slow?
> 

I get a whopping 5Mbps upload speed with my DSL account, and Crashplan does a 
fine job of "filling the pipe" - but granted, it's not a very fat pipe to fill.

Their original/main data center is in Minneapolis - which is where I live - so 
there isn't a long way to go.  They've got data centers and "clouds" all over 
the globe, though - why not check with them to see if there is something they 
can tweak/adjust for you?

 -Charles

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Re: Flickr as backup

[David Mann]

On Jun 14, 2015, at 8:18 am, Larry Colen  wrote:

> One thing that I haven't figured out how to do efficiently with rsync is for 
> it to track when I move a directory.

AFAIK it has no way of knowing that a directory has been moved or renamed.  I 
just move/rename it the same at both ends before running my next backup.

Cheers,
Dave


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Re: Flickr as backup

[Toine]

If you move the photos with a script, run the script on both set of
folders and after that run rsync

On 13 June 2015 at 22:18, Larry Colen  wrote:
>
>
> Toine wrote:
>>
>> If you need a local (wifi) based incremental backup solution on osx,
>> rsync (comes with osx) to another mac (mini) or any cheap nas is the
>> fastest, and easiest route.
>> Don't try OneDrive on OSX you will hate it.
>>
>
> One thing that I haven't figured out how to do efficiently with rsync is for
> it to track when I move a directory.
>
> I will upload photos into a generic (for this half of the year) directory,
> then move that shoot into a monthly directory.  So as far as I can tell
> rsync will either give me two copies, or will have to copy, delete, recopy
> at least once for every photo.
>
> --
> Larry Colen  l...@red4est.com (postbox on min4est)
>
>
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Featherstone]

On 13 June 2015 at 21:18, Larry Colen  wrote:
> One thing that I haven't figured out how to do efficiently with rsync is for
> it to track when I move a directory.

I think you want the --delete option

--deletedelete extraneous files from dest dirs

or one of its brethren

--delete-before receiver deletes before transfer (default)
--delete-during receiver deletes during xfer, not before
--delete-after  receiver deletes after transfer, not before
--delete-excluded   also delete excluded files from dest dirs

from: 
https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man1/rsync.1.html


-- 
Eric

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Re: Flickr as backup

[Larry Colen]

Toine wrote:

If you need a local (wifi) based incremental backup solution on osx,
rsync (comes with osx) to another mac (mini) or any cheap nas is the
fastest, and easiest route.
Don't try OneDrive on OSX you will hate it.



One thing that I haven't figured out how to do efficiently with rsync is 
for it to track when I move a directory.


I will upload photos into a generic (for this half of the year) 
directory, then move that shoot into a monthly directory.  So as far as 
I can tell rsync will either give me two copies, or will have to copy, 
delete, recopy at least once for every photo.


--
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

You can use Flickr for backup too. Just set your uploaded files (TIFF, DNG, 
JPEG, whatever) to "Private" access only. 

But services like CrashPlan work much better for real backup.

G

> On Jun 12, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Eric Weir  wrote:
> 
> Many of the comments here, as well as some of the sources referenced, seem to 
> be talking about “publishication” rather than “backup.” I use Flickr to share 
> select images, usually edited, with others. To my tastes it works fine for 
> this purpose. I don’t need anything else for it.
> 
> What I’m looking for is a way to duplicate or possibly enhance my current 
> back up system, which is two 1 TB firewire external drives managed with Time 
> Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner. Regarding photography what I want basically 
> is ability to create a copy of my photo directory as is and then make 
> incremental backups to it as additions or changes are made to the original. I 
> don’t want to show anyone my unedited DNG files. 


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Re: Flickr as backup

[John]

On 6/12/2015 2:06 PM, Eric Weir wrote:


Many of the comments here, as well as some of the sources referenced,
seem to be talking about “publishication” rather than “backup.” I use
Flickr to share select images, usually edited, with others. To my
tastes it works fine for this purpose. I don’t need anything else for
it.



That's why I don't think Flickr would work as "backup". It's really only
designed for sharing images - whether it be public or private.


What I’m looking for is a way to duplicate or possibly enhance my
current back up system, which is two 1 TB firewire external drives
managed with Time Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner. Regarding
photography what I want basically is ability to create a copy of my
photo directory as is and then make incremental backups to it as
additions or changes are made to the original. I don’t want to show
anyone my unedited DNG files.

Earlier this year I had planned to create a new external drive-based
system with much larger capacity drives accessible by wi-fi. I had
identified the drives and a router and had talked with a
tech-consultant friend about helping me set it up.

Finances led me to hold up on proceeding with this idea. I may be
ready to go ahead with it. Or, as a temporary backstop to my current
system, I may give one of the cloud-based systems a try, likely
Dropbox or CrashPlan.



Wikipedia has a fairly good chart comparing online backup services:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_online_backup_services


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Re: Flickr as backup

[steve harley]

On 2015-06-12 13:26 , Toine wrote:

If you need a local (wifi) based incremental backup solution on osx,
rsync (comes with osx) to another mac (mini) or any cheap nas is the
fastest, and easiest route.


and even if you have all the latest wifi (router, Mac(s) and NAS as 
applicable), it will probably be slower than a wired solution through a 
cheap gigabit-ethernet switch, which in turn could be slower than a drive 
connected directly via USB3, FireWire 800 or Thunderbolt


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Re: Flickr as backup

[Toine]

If you need a local (wifi) based incremental backup solution on osx,
rsync (comes with osx) to another mac (mini) or any cheap nas is the
fastest, and easiest route.
Don't try OneDrive on OSX you will hate it.

On 12 June 2015 at 20:06, Eric Weir  wrote:
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:28 PM, steve harley  wrote:
>>
>> On 2015-06-11 9:53 , Eric Weir wrote:
>>> This suggests another question about Flickr as backup, though I’m leaning 
>>> away from using it as such: Can you upload RAW/DNG files to Flickr?
>>
>> i didn't try it, but no, not according to a couple of recent references i 
>> found; but any cloud service that handles RAW files is pretty much going to 
>> guess at your rendering intent — in other words, you'll have RAW in the 
>> cloud, but it may not look good
>>
>>> If not it would really be worthless as backup.
>>
>> it depends what you mean by backup; it sounds like you think of backup as 
>> true copies of your work, in which case i think cloud backup solutions in 
>> general aren't up to the job unless you create very few images (or perhaps 
>> you are willing to spend for lots of cloud storage and you have something 
>> like Google Fiber to speed your uploads)
>>
>> for the many terabytes that a lot of serious photographers create, using 
>> physical storage media (hard drives) and rotating some to "off-site" 
>> locations is faster and more cost effective; what can put you off this path 
>> is that it takes thought, whereas a lot of cloud services seem to take care 
>> of everything; but believe me, i have been called in to consult with people 
>> who have dragged their hard drive icon into their Dropbox folder, thinking 
>> it would "take care of it"; days later they are wondering why their computer 
>> is slow, why only some of their files are on their other devices, and what 
>> the funny messages are about
>
> Many of the comments here, as well as some of the sources referenced, seem to 
> be talking about “publishication” rather than “backup.” I use Flickr to share 
> select images, usually edited, with others. To my tastes it works fine for 
> this purpose. I don’t need anything else for it.
>
> What I’m looking for is a way to duplicate or possibly enhance my current 
> back up system, which is two 1 TB firewire external drives managed with Time 
> Machine and Carbon Copy Cloner. Regarding photography what I want basically 
> is ability to create a copy of my photo directory as is and then make 
> incremental backups to it as additions or changes are made to the original. I 
> don’t want to show anyone my unedited DNG files.
>
> Earlier this year I had planned to create a new external drive-based system 
> with much larger capacity drives accessible by wi-fi. I had identified the 
> drives and a router and had talked with a tech-consultant friend about 
> helping me set it up.
>
> Finances led me to hold up on proceeding with this idea. I may be ready to go 
> ahead with it. Or, as a temporary backstop to my current system, I may give 
> one of the cloud-based systems a try, likely Dropbox or CrashPlan.
>
> --
> Eric Weir
> Decatur, GA  USA
> eew...@bellsouth.net
>
> "You keep on learning and learning, and pretty soon
> you learn something no one has learned before."
>
> - Richard Feynman
>
>
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:28 PM, steve harley  wrote:
> 
> On 2015-06-11 9:53 , Eric Weir wrote:
>> This suggests another question about Flickr as backup, though I’m leaning 
>> away from using it as such: Can you upload RAW/DNG files to Flickr?
> 
> i didn't try it, but no, not according to a couple of recent references i 
> found; but any cloud service that handles RAW files is pretty much going to 
> guess at your rendering intent — in other words, you'll have RAW in the 
> cloud, but it may not look good
> 
>> If not it would really be worthless as backup.
> 
> it depends what you mean by backup; it sounds like you think of backup as 
> true copies of your work, in which case i think cloud backup solutions in 
> general aren't up to the job unless you create very few images (or perhaps 
> you are willing to spend for lots of cloud storage and you have something 
> like Google Fiber to speed your uploads)
> 
> for the many terabytes that a lot of serious photographers create, using 
> physical storage media (hard drives) and rotating some to "off-site" 
> locations is faster and more cost effective; what can put you off this path 
> is that it takes thought, whereas a lot of cloud services seem to take care 
> of everything; but believe me, i have been called in to consult with people 
> who have dragged their hard drive icon into their Dropbox folder, thinking it 
> would "take care of it"; days later they are wondering why their computer is 
> slow, why only some of their files are on their other devices, and what the 
> funny messages are about

Many of the comments here, as well as some of the sources referenced, seem to 
be talking about “publishication” rather than “backup.” I use Flickr to share 
select images, usually edited, with others. To my tastes it works fine for this 
purpose. I don’t need anything else for it.

What I’m looking for is a way to duplicate or possibly enhance my current back 
up system, which is two 1 TB firewire external drives managed with Time Machine 
and Carbon Copy Cloner. Regarding photography what I want basically is ability 
to create a copy of my photo directory as is and then make incremental backups 
to it as additions or changes are made to the original. I don’t want to show 
anyone my unedited DNG files. 

Earlier this year I had planned to create a new external drive-based system 
with much larger capacity drives accessible by wi-fi. I had identified the 
drives and a router and had talked with a tech-consultant friend about helping 
me set it up. 

Finances led me to hold up on proceeding with this idea. I may be ready to go 
ahead with it. Or, as a temporary backstop to my current system, I may give one 
of the cloud-based systems a try, likely Dropbox or CrashPlan.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"You keep on learning and learning, and pretty soon
you learn something no one has learned before." 

- Richard Feynman


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Re: Flickr as backup

[Godfrey DiGiorgi]

My upload speed from home would, by itself, be too slow to send my whole data 
store to CrashPlan for backup. 

But I believe they can initialize your account from a hard disk if you send it 
to them, and then the incremental speed won't matter too much... Just keep the 
system running and it will do the job. 

G

> On Jun 12, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Eric Weir  wrote:
> 
> ... but you don't find Crashplan slow?

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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

> On Jun 12, 2015, at 10:36 AM, John  wrote:
> 
> On 6/11/2015 3:12 PM, Eric Weir wrote:
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It's not perfect, but I'm already backing up actual copies of my RAW files 
>>> with:
>>> 
>>> 1. Time Machine
>>> 2. Crashplan (no speed issues here)
>> 
>> Probably doesn't need to be asked, but you don't find Crashplan slow?
>> 
>> Eric Weir
>> 
> 
> I think they're both (Charles & CrashPlan) located in Minneapolis.

Ah, but maybe you’re n the states it’s still reasonably fast even if your not 
in Minneapolis?

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Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

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- Hilary Putnam






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Re: Flickr as backup

[John]

On 6/11/2015 3:12 PM, Eric Weir wrote:



On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:

It's not perfect, but I'm already backing up actual copies of my RAW files with:

1. Time Machine
2. Crashplan (no speed issues here)


Probably doesn't need to be asked, but you don't find Crashplan slow?

Eric Weir



I think they're both (Charles & CrashPlan) located in Minneapolis.

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Re: Flickr as backup

[John]

CrashPlan doesn't have servers in Europe yet. That probably makes it too
slow to use if you're not in the U.S. I think Dropbox & OneDrive do
already have servers in Europe.

If you *are* in the U.S., CrashPlan does have an option to do a "seeded
backup" where they send you a 1TB USB drive for you to do your initial
backup locally & return it to them. They have a one time charge of
something like $125 for the seeded backup.

Then all your incremental backups can go over the internet.


On 6/11/2015 1:36 PM, Toine wrote:

I'm using OneDrive. The free version of Dropbox and Onedrive are too
small for serious photo backup. My OneDrive subscription offers 10Tb
storage. Dropbox starts at 1 Tb. Usage is a no brainer. Just save
the jpg or RAW files in the dropbox or onedrive folder and it's
synced in the background.

I tried Crashplan and decided to cancel my account. It's very very
slow. Even Onedrive beats crashplan and Onedrive is currently a joke
compared to dropbox speed.

Toine

On 10 June 2015 at 18:53, Eric Weir  wrote:

I’d like to take advantage of Flickr’s 1000 GB of free storage to
backup my photo files, but I wouldn’t want all of them to go into
my photostream. Two questions: [1] Is using Flickr as backup
realistic in the first place? [2] Is it possible to keep backups
and photostream separate?

Thanks,
--

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Decatur, GA  USA eew...@bellsouth.net

"What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?"

- Mary Oliver




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Re: Flickr as backup

[steve harley]

On 2015-06-11 9:53 , Eric Weir wrote:

This suggests another question about Flickr as backup, though I’m leaning away 
from using it as such: Can you upload RAW/DNG files to Flickr?


i didn't try it, but no, not according to a couple of recent references i 
found; but any cloud service that handles RAW files is pretty much going to 
guess at your rendering intent — in other words, you'll have RAW in the 
cloud, but it may not look good




If not it would really be worthless as backup.


it depends what you mean by backup; it sounds like you think of backup as 
true copies of your work, in which case i think cloud backup solutions in 
general aren't up to the job unless you create very few images (or perhaps 
you are willing to spend for lots of cloud storage and you have something 
like Google Fiber to speed your uploads)


for the many terabytes that a lot of serious photographers create, using 
physical storage media (hard drives) and rotating some to "off-site" 
locations is faster and more cost effective; what can put you off this path 
is that it takes thought, whereas a lot of cloud services seem to take care 
of everything; but believe me, i have been called in to consult with people 
who have dragged their hard drive icon into their Dropbox folder, thinking 
it would "take care of it"; days later they are wondering why their computer 
is slow, why only some of their files are on their other devices, and what 
the funny messages are about


there are also many people who think of their pictures less seriously — 
they'd be happy to mainly be preserving JPEGs, and yet they know enough to 
realize Facebook doesn't cut it as a backup plan; from that mindset i think 
this is a surprisingly rational overview of the current cloud options:




my guess is the cloudy cloud options will become much more clear over the 
next few years




And another: What about the organizational capabilities? Could you have a 
folder of folders of large numbers of files?


you'll have to learn the paradigm — on Flickr you can put photos into sets 
(same photo can be in more than one set); collections can hold 
sub-collections or sets (but not both), so you can nest "subfolders" up to a 
point; but i would be cautious of putting too much work into this — i would 
organize my files at the source, then if i wanted that organization to carry 
through to other locations i'd use metadata (tags) to embody the 
organization in the actual files (or sidecars), and if i needed to, use 
searches to find that metadata and set up the organization on Flickr





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Re: Flickr as backup

[Toine]

Yes In my case it is. I have the full paid 10Tb on Onedrive and a free
dropbox. Onedrive is currently struggling with speed issues probably
because many users try to handle Tb's. Uploading to Onedrive is fast
enough the last months (30 Mbps) which is more or less on par with
dropbox. downloading is slow 3-5 Mbps. Dropbox start the sync
directly, OneDrive sometimes refuses to start a sync directly. If you
save a Word doc on your office PC, shutdown the PC and plan to edit
the file at home, you could be in for an ugly surprise (no synced
file). Sometimes Onedrive sleeps forever and only restarting the PC
solves this. The Onedrive apps on IOS are very strange, the latest
update resulted in a complete non functional app.

For a few 100Gb or Tb of pictures Onedrive syncs the files in the
background nicely. The biggest problem is where to find a 10Tb
harddisk to handle the sync folder (you can't sync two or more
harddisc's with onedrive)

Crashplan is really slow, maybe due to the fact it's all transatlantic
ip traffic for me in europe.

If I had to choose now, maybe Google Drive is another option combined
with Google Photo it really looks like a killer combi.

Toine

On 11 June 2015 at 20:02, Eric Weir  wrote:
>
>> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Toine  wrote:
>>
>> I tried Crashplan and decided to cancel my account. It's very very
>> slow. Even Onedrive beats crashplan and Onedrive is currently a joke 
>> compared to dropbox speed.
>
> Just to be clear, Dropbox is faster?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Weir
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Charles Robinson  wrote:
> 
> It's not perfect, but I'm already backing up actual copies of my RAW files 
> with:
> 
> 1. Time Machine
> 2. Crashplan (no speed issues here)

Probably doesn't need to be asked, but you don't find Crashplan slow?

Eric Weir
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Charles Robinson]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 10:53 , Eric Weir  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:37 PM, John  wrote:
>> 
>> [2] Not really, although you can set the images as private so no one else 
>> can see them.
> 
> This suggests another question about Flickr as backup, though I’m leaning 
> away from using it as such: Can you upload RAW/DNG files to Flickr? If not it 
> would really be worthless as backup.
> 

If you don't mind being part of the Google Collective Google Photos lets 
you upload unlimited "pretty good" images.  I pointed it to a folder full of 
RAW files and it converts 'em to JPEG somewhere along the line.

It's not perfect, but I'm already backing up actual copies of my RAW files with:
 
 1. Time Machine
 2. Crashplan (no speed issues here)
 3. Occasional external harddrive that I connect, sync, and throw back into the 
cabinet

So this is just "one more place" I can have my images parked.  They aren't 
full-quality so I don't really think of it as a backup though.  For FULL 
quality, Google lets you do that for a fee.  


 -Charles

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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Toine  wrote:
> 
> I tried Crashplan and decided to cancel my account. It's very very
> slow. Even Onedrive beats crashplan and Onedrive is currently a joke compared 
> to dropbox speed.

Just to be clear, Dropbox is faster?

Thanks, 

Eric Weir 
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

Thanks, Toine. Very helpful.

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 1:36 PM, Toine  wrote:
> 
> I'm using OneDrive. The free version of Dropbox and Onedrive are too
> small for serious photo backup. My OneDrive subscription offers 10Tb
> storage. Dropbox starts at 1 Tb. Usage is a no brainer. Just save the
> jpg or RAW files in the dropbox or onedrive folder and it's synced in
> the background.
> 
> I tried Crashplan and decided to cancel my account. It's very very
> slow. Even Onedrive beats crashplan and Onedrive is currently a joke
> compared to dropbox speed.
> 
> Toine
> 
>> On 10 June 2015 at 18:53, Eric Weir  wrote:
>> I’d like to take advantage of Flickr’s 1000 GB of free storage to backup my 
>> photo files, but I wouldn’t want all of them to go into my photostream. Two 
>> questions: [1] Is using Flickr as backup realistic in the first place? [2] 
>> Is it possible to keep backups and photostream separate?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> --
>> Eric Weir
>> Decatur, GA  USA
>> eew...@bellsouth.net
>> 
>> "What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?"
>> 
>> - Mary Oliver
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Toine]

I'm using OneDrive. The free version of Dropbox and Onedrive are too
small for serious photo backup. My OneDrive subscription offers 10Tb
storage. Dropbox starts at 1 Tb. Usage is a no brainer. Just save the
jpg or RAW files in the dropbox or onedrive folder and it's synced in
the background.

I tried Crashplan and decided to cancel my account. It's very very
slow. Even Onedrive beats crashplan and Onedrive is currently a joke
compared to dropbox speed.

Toine

On 10 June 2015 at 18:53, Eric Weir  wrote:
> I’d like to take advantage of Flickr’s 1000 GB of free storage to backup my 
> photo files, but I wouldn’t want all of them to go into my photostream. Two 
> questions: [1] Is using Flickr as backup realistic in the first place? [2] Is 
> it possible to keep backups and photostream separate?
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Eric Weir
> Decatur, GA  USA
> eew...@bellsouth.net
>
> "What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?"
>
> - Mary Oliver
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Stan Halpin]

Have you considered Dropbox? Another of many “cloud” services that give you x 
freestorage to start, allow incremental expansion for a price as you need it.

For normal use, when I am at home, I think something like this would be a 
decent (2nd or 3rd level) backup process with the possible added advantage of 
access while traveling. But when traveling I am often in places/situations with 
pitiful if any web connections and so cloud-based storage, retrieval, and 
backup is merely a fantasy.

In short, your idea doesn't work in my case, YMMV.

stan

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 12:03 PM, Eric Weir  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:07 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
>> 
>> As for (1), - I am not sure... it probably depends on your workflow.
>> I am not aware of an "automatic backup from computers" to Flickr tools.
>> But maybe they've created something...
>> 
>> Just in case, - if you have Amazon Prime, - that offers unlimited storage of 
>> photos in the cloud. But the same logistics questions remain. So, the only 
>> advantage is the "unlimited".
>> 
>> But then the question is - what is your bandwidth and the traffic cap with 
>> your ISP, - how long will it take you to upload your photos…
> 
> Thanks, Igor. I suspect it would be prohibitive. But my sense now is that for 
> a variety of reason it’s not that useful.
> 
> --
> Eric Weir
> Decatur, GA  USA
> eew...@bellsouth.net
> 
> “...we are a form of invitation to others and to otherness..."
> 
> - David Whyte
> 
> 
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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:07 PM, Igor PDML-StR  wrote:
> 
> As for (1), - I am not sure... it probably depends on your workflow.
> I am not aware of an "automatic backup from computers" to Flickr tools.
> But maybe they've created something...
> 
> Just in case, - if you have Amazon Prime, - that offers unlimited storage of 
> photos in the cloud. But the same logistics questions remain. So, the only 
> advantage is the "unlimited".
> 
> But then the question is - what is your bandwidth and the traffic cap with 
> your ISP, - how long will it take you to upload your photos…

Thanks, Igor. I suspect it would be prohibitive. But my sense now is that for a 
variety of reason it’s not that useful.

--
Eric Weir
Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

“...we are a form of invitation to others and to otherness..."

- David Whyte


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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

> On Jun 10, 2015, at 1:37 PM, John  wrote:
> 
> [2] Not really, although you can set the images as private so no one else can 
> see them.

This suggests another question about Flickr as backup, though I’m leaning away 
from using it as such: Can you upload RAW/DNG files to Flickr? If not it would 
really be worthless as backup.

And still another: Utility as backup is also a function of the volume and speed 
of downloading. E.g., could you download a folder of 300 RAW files?

And another: What about the organizational capabilities? Could you have a 
folder of folders of large numbers of files? 

--
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Decatur, GA  USA
eew...@bellsouth.net

"Our world is a human world." 

- Hilary Putnam






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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 11:20 AM, John  wrote:
> 
> Probably works with a USB connection.

That would be cool.

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"What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?" 

- Mary Oliver 









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Re: Flickr as backup

[John]

On 6/11/2015 11:09 AM, Eric Weir wrote:



On Jun 11, 2015, at 11:05 AM, John  wrote:

In addition to a free trial, they have a "free" plan that allows
you to use the software to backup to your own external drive, like
Time-Machine for Mac, without paying for cloud storage


I'm out of town right now, but plan to check this out, both the free
and the paid, when I get back home.

Wondering if the free requires the external drive to be on a wireless
router.
Eric Weir



Probably works with a USB connection.

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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Weir]

> On Jun 11, 2015, at 11:05 AM, John  wrote:
> 
> In addition to a free trial, they have a "free" plan that allows you to
> use the software to backup to your own external drive, like Time-Machine for 
> Mac, without paying for cloud storage

I'm out of town right now, but plan to check this out, both the free and the 
paid, when I get back home.

Wondering if the free requires the external drive to be on a wireless router.

Eric Weir
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Re: Flickr as backup

[John]

Not sure if you mean CrashPlan's website or Flickr's website or
something else, but ...

https://www.code42.com/store/

There was a pull-down menu in the upper right & clicking on "Store". I
didn't see it at first until I told NoScript to temporarily allow
crashplan.com

They have an unlimited plan for one computer for $5.00 a month if you
pay for a year in advance [$59.99]; an unlimited "family plan" for
$12.50 a month at a one year subscription rate of $149.99 and a
"Business" plan for $10.00 a month.

In addition to a free trial, they have a "free" plan that allows you to
use the software to backup to your own external drive, like Time-Machine
for Mac, without paying for cloud storage.

There seem to be a bunch of these companies doing on-line "cloud"
backups. CrashPlan was recommended to me because of the low cost &
simplicity.

On 6/10/2015 3:21 PM, Igor PDML-StR wrote:


I was exhausted scrolling down the webpage... and still couldn't find
what it costs..

I am rather sceptical about companies using cookie-cutter-type websites
which indicates they cannot or are not willing to hire a good web
designer. It's weird to see that from a 14-y.o. company with this
product being 7-8 y.o.
But on another hand, the portion of their revenue from retail customers
is less than 20%.


Also, surprisingly, Adobe LR's page has a similar look and feel:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-lightroom.html
Recently, I've seen a bunch of small startups and mid-size companies
using this type of template... It must be a sign of me getting old, but
I don't like that type of site design (aka UX).


Igor




John Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:38:26 -0700 wrote:

[1] No.

[2] Not really, although you can set the images as private so no one
else can see them.


Several persons whose expertise I respect have suggested CrashPlan.

http://www.code42.com/crashplan/

On 6/10/2015 12:53 PM, Eric Weir wrote:

 I.d like to take advantage of Flickr.s 1000 GB of free storage to
 backup my photo files, but I wouldn.t want all of them to go into my
 photostream. Two questions: [1] Is using Flickr as backup realistic
 in the first place? [2] Is it possible to keep backups and
 photostream separate?




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Re: Flickr as backup

[Igor PDML-StR]

I was exhausted scrolling down the webpage... and still couldn't find what 
it costs..


I am rather sceptical about companies using cookie-cutter-type websites 
which indicates they cannot or are not willing to hire a good web 
designer. It's weird to see that from a 14-y.o. company with this product 
being 7-8 y.o.
But on another hand, the portion of their revenue from retail customers is 
less than 20%.



Also, surprisingly, Adobe LR's page has a similar look and feel:
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop-lightroom.html
Recently, I've seen a bunch of small startups and mid-size companies using 
this type of template... It must be a sign of me getting old, but I don't 
like that type of site design (aka UX).



Igor




John Wed, 10 Jun 2015 10:38:26 -0700 wrote:

[1] No.

[2] Not really, although you can set the images as private so no one else 
can see them.



Several persons whose expertise I respect have suggested CrashPlan.

http://www.code42.com/crashplan/

On 6/10/2015 12:53 PM, Eric Weir wrote:

I.d like to take advantage of Flickr.s 1000 GB of free storage to
backup my photo files, but I wouldn.t want all of them to go into my
photostream. Two questions: [1] Is using Flickr as backup realistic
in the first place? [2] Is it possible to keep backups and
photostream separate?


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Re: Flickr as backup

[Eric Featherstone]

On 10 June 2015 at 17:53, Eric Weir  wrote:
> I’d like to take advantage of Flickr’s 1000 GB of free storage to backup my 
> photo files, but I wouldn’t want all of them to go into my photostream. Two 
> questions: [1] Is using Flickr as backup realistic in the first place? [2] Is 
> it possible to keep backups and photostream separate?


[1] Realistic? Don't know, that depends on your broadband speed and
any data caps or limits your ISP might impose on you. You use the
Flickr Uploadr app for Mac/PC
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/flickr/flickr-uploadr-mac-sln24869.html
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/flickr/flickr-uploadr-windows-sln25996.html

[2] Separate? Again from the help, the Uploadr app sets anything it
uploads to be private. That's as separate as it gets.

I know no more than what I've just read in their help, I haven't used
it myself so can't comment on that.


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Re: Flickr as backup

[John]

[1] No.
[2] Not really, although you can set the images as private so no one 
else can see them.


Several persons whose expertise I respect have suggested CrashPlan.

http://www.code42.com/crashplan/

On 6/10/2015 12:53 PM, Eric Weir wrote:

I’d like to take advantage of Flickr’s 1000 GB of free storage to
backup my photo files, but I wouldn’t want all of them to go into my
photostream. Two questions: [1] Is using Flickr as backup realistic
in the first place? [2] Is it possible to keep backups and
photostream separate?

Thanks,
--

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Decatur, GA  USA eew...@bellsouth.net

"What does it mean...that the world is so beautiful?"

- Mary Oliver











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Re: Flickr as backup

[Igor PDML-StR]

Eric,


From what I know, you can make photos private on Flickr.

So, that should resolve your issue (2). Just make the "backups" private.

I suspect, however, there is no way to clearly separate "backups" area 
from the rest.


I am not using Flickr myself (my wife does), - so, I don't know if you 
can set "private" as a default for all uploaded photos, or you'd have to 
set it manually after uploading...


As for (1), - I am not sure... it probably depends on your workflow.
I am not aware of an "automatic backup from computers" to Flickr tools.
But maybe they've created something...

Just in case, - if you have Amazon Prime, - that offers unlimited storage 
of photos in the cloud. But the same logistics questions remain. So, the 
only advantage is the "unlimited".


But then the question is - what is your bandwidth and the traffic cap with 
your ISP, - how long will it take you to upload your photos...



Igor


Eric Weir Wed, 10 Jun 2015 09:54:12 -0700 wrote:

I'd like to take advantage of Flickr's 1000 GB of free storage to backup 
my photo files, but I wouldn.t want all of them to go into my photostream. 
Two questions: [1] Is using Flickr as backup realistic in the first place? 
[2] Is it possible to keep backups and photostream separate?



Thanks,

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