Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[Eliot Miranda]

Hi Johan,


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Johan Brichau  wrote:

> Since this discussion often returns on this mailinglist, here is a good
> article.
>
> It focuses on Haskell, but a lot of arguments apply to Smalltalk as well.
>
>
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/04/29/what-do-you-think-is-impeding-haskell-from-getting-mainstream-adoption/?utm_content=buffer1b176&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer


if possible, next time provide the quora link not the forbes one.  forbes
is advertising at me :-(

-- 
but thanks!
Eliot

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[Johan Brichau]

Eliot,

> if possible, next time provide the quora link not the forbes one.  forbes is 
> advertising at me :-(

OK, but I am not an active Quora user... and it's asking me for a lot of things 
before I can actually read that article :-/
Now that I have wrestled through it, the next time I will do that :-)

cheers
Johan

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Jimmie Houchin]

On 04/28/2014 11:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:

… more a Smalltalk one using Pharo:

MountainWest RubyConf 2014

Noel Rappin: "But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk”

Smalltalk has mystique. We talk about it more than we use it. It seems like it 
should be so similar to Ruby. It has similar Object-Oriented structures, it 
even has blocks. But everything is so slightly different, from the programming 
environment, to the 1-based arrays, to the simple syntax. Using Smalltalk will 
make you look at familiar constructs with new eyes. We’ll show you how to get 
started on Smalltalk, and walk through some sample code. Live coding may be 
involved. You’ll never look at objects the same way again.


http://www.confreaks.com/videos/3284-mwrc-but-really-you-should-learn-smalltalk


One more thought about Pharo being a Smalltalk.

The Pharo Wikipedia page from day one to today has declared Pharo as a 
Smalltalk.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharo


A quote from the first entry.
"""
Pharo is a fork of Squeak, an implementation of the object-oriented, 
dynamically typed, reflective programming language Smalltalk.

"""

A quote from the current entry.
"""
Pharo is an open-source Smalltalk-environment released under the MIT 
license since 2009.

...
Pharo is a fork of Squeak, an open source Smalltalk environment created 
by the Smalltalk-80 team (Dan Ingalls and Alan Kay). The Pharo team want 
to develop a modern Smalltalk for companies and software engineering 
research.

"""

Smalltalk is mentioned over 20 times. Pharo is listed as being written 
in Smalltalk. Not being written in Pharo.


Also, Smalltalk is the original pure object-oriented language.
If Pharo ditches Smalltalk, are we ditching OO also.

The only and sole reason for not proudly proclaiming Pharo as Smalltalk 
is marketing. That type of marketing cuts both ways. We also lose the 
positive of Smalltalk.


We can't undo our history. We are a Smalltalk. We can invent our future. 
Just as a true Smalltalk should.


Smalltalk has baggage. So does Object-Oriented programming. But just 
because the functional people, the Clojure people flog OO, doesn't mean 
we abandon that terminology. We embrace OO and we educated people that 
C++ and Java do not get to be arbiters of defining what OO means. We 
show them what OO really means.


And so we do not let the Smalltalk detractors define us either.

I think our new website should proudly reflect that Pharo is a 
Smalltalk. The Wikipedia page does, and rightly so.


I have been a part of the Squeak/Pharo community since the 2000. I still 
have much to learn. But this much I know. I am happy to be a 
Smalltalker. I have wandered around much, and I always wander back, 
because nothing else brings the experience and productivity. Not Python, 
Ruby, Lua, ...


Long live Smalltalk.

Jimmie

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

[Ronie Salgado]

Hi Clément,

There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the
bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error.
Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available
in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub
http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :

Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package:
'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d)
loadDevelopment

For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an
interesting idea.

Greetings,
Ronie


2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :

> The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D
> stuff.
>
> I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off
> Rossal with the 3.0 release
>
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera  wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people
> (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I
> cannot show them a compiler).
> >
> > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on
> Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
> >
> > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
> >
> > 
> >
> > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
> >
> > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
> >
> > Thanks !
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Esteban A. Maringolo]

2014-04-30 15:07 GMT-03:00 Jimmie Houchin :
> Here is an unfortunate quote from that thread.
>
> """
> emaringolo 1 point an hour ago
> Pharo is aimed to do serious/business development, and it's been reshaping
> itself since its conception (several years ago when it forked from Squeak).
> It doesn't want to have any backward or "historic" compatibility with other
> Smalltalks.
> You can see its changelogs and the roadmap for future versions to see how it
> is different, and how it will be different.
> """
>
> This makes it sound like Pharo wants remove compatibility simply for the
> sake of not being a Smalltalk. As opposed to what I believe Esteban meant.
> And yes I understand that English is not his native language, and there are
> many for whom it is, who still use it poorly.

That's certainly an interpretation.

I didn't mean it wants to REMOVE compatibility, but I did mean it
doesn't wan't backward compatibility with Smalltalk per se. Sometimes
it isn't compatible with previous versions of itself!

I remember having read exactly that: "we don't want backward compatibility".

> What I believe he meant, is that Pharo will not be constrained by backward 
> compatibility.
> If a change or feature that is of value to Pharo Smalltalk. That feature will 
> be done even
> if it means breaking backward compatibility with other Smalltalk 80 based
> Smalltalks.

This is exactly what I meant.

> We are moving forward. But this does not invalidate Pharo being
> a Smalltalk. As has been stated before, breaking changes happened in
> Smalltalk 76 and 80.

As a disclaimer I'm a strong defender of not hiding the "Smalltalk"
heritage in Pharo.
However there is no need to name something "Pharo Smalltalk" to have a
connection with its past, but also no need to avoid any mention of the
word Smalltalk in the new home page. At least from the SEO point of
view. :)

Regards,


Esteban A. Maringolo

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Jimmie Houchin]

But that is the point. This kind of marketing is false. It denies who we 
are.


As soon as they look at Pharo. Learn to use and then learn that Pharo is 
a Smalltalk and that we are liars.


Did keeping silent about Pharo help in the Reddit thread. No.
Did the current marketing explain well what Pharo is. No.
Read the thread. People were confused.
And regardless of the marketing attempt, the fact of Pharo being a 
Smalltalk did not remain suppressed. So therefore, those who were closed 
minded against Smalltalk have then been alerted, and they can close 
their minds. Attempting to not make it plain was an abject failure.


People who understand the value of Smalltalk and of a modern open source 
implementation will come.



I guess none of the commercial Smalltalks are alive? Nobody knows of 
them. They are going broke?


Gemstone, VisualWorks, ...

What is this new thing that people are using?

Clojure based on Lisp. Not new.
Python 23 years old.
Lua 21
Ruby 19

Clojure based on Lisp but adding modern functional features disproves 
any thought that an old language with lots of baggage can't attract new 
users.

From the Clojure home page. """Clojure is a dialect of Lisp"""
They embrace their heritage and are better for it. They also detail 
their value proposition and being a Lisp is part of it.



I am all agreeable to attracting people to our community. But falseness 
isn't the way.


Not everybody is closed minded and ignorant. Those that are we can wait 
until they are not.


But Pharo has to offer people the proper value proposition. When it 
does, I believe it will attract sincere people. When the value of Pharo 
meets the needs of the people, it will attact the appropriate people. 
But until then, we can market it however we want and they will not care. 
Right now Pharo is working hard to reach that point that it can offer 
them something they will value. For some it already does. For others not 
yet. That not yet, it a bigger obstacle than Pharo being marketed as a 
Smalltalk and telling the truth.


We need to embrace being a Smalltalk and sell our value proposition in 
terms that mean something to somebody who doesn't already get Smalltalk. 
We failed at that. Too vague, too ambiguous. It confused some of the 
Reddit people. People to whom we are supposedly intending to attract and 
market to.


Jimmie


On 04/30/2014 01:22 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

Again… you are missing the point.
nobody here doubts Pharo is a Smalltalk.
nobody outside our small world believes Smalltalk is alive.

And yes… you can argue all what you want. But you are scratching where 
it does not itch.


We choose not to *market* Pharo as a Smalltalk, because each time 
someone outside our small world hear about Smalltalk believes that is 
a long time dead language. No matter how much effort you put into 
explain that is not true, people will not believe it. And people is 
always more willing to try something new than something old (except in 
the case of wines and fine alcohols, of course).
So… we prefer to track people to our community and let them notice wat 
WE ALL KNOW: Smalltalk is not dead, and Pharo is a proof of that.


Esteban

On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:07, Jimmie Houchin > wrote:



In the Smalltalk heritage. Pharo comes from Smalltalk 80.

But we don't want to be stuck in 1980. We want Smalltalk 2014.
Smalltalk 80 was modern for 1980. They didn't want to be stuck in 
1976. ...


And Smalltalk isn't unique to this. Is C11 not a C because it is not 
K&R, or C89, C90 or C99?
Is Python 3.x not Python because it is not fully compatible with 
Python 2.x which is dominant?


Pharo wants to be a modern Smalltalk able to empower people in this 
era to do things that we do in 2014. We need appropriate modularity 
in the image. We need the image to be clean. We need to learn the 
lessons we as Smalltalker's have learned in the last 24 years and 
apply them to Pharo Smalltalk. And I believe that is much of what 
Pharo is attempting to do.


Noel in his talk said that Smalltalk doesn't play well with others. 
And with Pharo it still isn't as easy as in other languages like 
Python, Ruby, Lua, etc. But with NativeBoost we have a tool which 
enables us to do much. And NativeBoost isn't finished. I believe when 
NativeBoost is fully mature and the vm/image has sufficiently changed 
to enable us. We will have one of the best plays with others well 
stories.


I know in the app I am writing, NativeBoost's current condition 
struggled with my library. It often crashed. This library has to deal 
with a C Thread. Which is why I am spending my current time studying C.


Whether or not the Smalltalk Inspired crowd likes it, the moment some 
else declares that Pharo is a Smalltalk the Smalltalk Inspired 
marketing is tanked. The cat is out of the bag.


The Reddit thread demonstrates this. People went to the new website. 
They read the current marketing and were confused. What is this Pharo 
thing. And in the 

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[kilon alios]

he/she lost me at "The benefit of more libraries is real but marginal"

thats a a big nope from me.

If there is one lesson we can learn from Java is that more libraries is
EVERYTHING.


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 9:29 PM, Johan Brichau  wrote:

> Eliot,
>
> > if possible, next time provide the quora link not the forbes one.
>  forbes is advertising at me :-(
>
> OK, but I am not an active Quora user... and it's asking me for a lot of
> things before I can actually read that article :-/
> Now that I have wrestled through it, the next time I will do that :-)
>
> cheers
> Johan
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Esteban Lorenzano]

Some days a I really would love not to love smalltalk...

> On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:52, Jimmie Houchin  wrote:
> 
> But that is the point. This kind of marketing is false. It denies who we are.
> 
> As soon as they look at Pharo. Learn to use and then learn that Pharo is a 
> Smalltalk and that we are liars.
> 
> Did keeping silent about Pharo help in the Reddit thread. No.
> Did the current marketing explain well what Pharo is. No.
> Read the thread. People were confused.
> And regardless of the marketing attempt, the fact of Pharo being a Smalltalk 
> did not remain suppressed. So therefore, those who were closed minded against 
> Smalltalk have then been alerted, and they can close their minds. Attempting 
> to not make it plain was an abject failure.
> 
> People who understand the value of Smalltalk and of a modern open source 
> implementation will come.
> 
> 
> I guess none of the commercial Smalltalks are alive? Nobody knows   of 
> them. They are going broke?
> 
> Gemstone, VisualWorks, ...
> 
> What is this new thing that people are using?
> 
> Clojure based on Lisp. Not new.
> Python 23 years old.
> Lua 21
> Ruby 19
> 
> Clojure based on Lisp but adding modern functional features disproves any 
> thought that an old language with lots of baggage can't attract new users.
> From the Clojure home page. """Clojure is a dialect of Lisp"""
> They embrace their heritage and are better for it. They also detail their 
> value proposition and being a Lisp is part of it.
> 
> 
> I am all agreeable to attracting people to our community. But falseness isn't 
> the way.
> 
> Not everybody is closed minded and ignorant. Those that are we can   wait 
> until they are not.
> 
> But Pharo has to offer people the proper value proposition. When it does, I 
> believe it will attract sincere people. When the value of Pharo meets the 
> needs of the people, it will attact the appropriate people. But until then, 
> we can market it however we want and they will not care. Right now Pharo is 
> working hard to reach that point that it can offer them something they will 
> value. For some it already does. For others not yet. That not yet, it a 
> bigger obstacle than Pharo being marketed as a Smalltalk and telling the 
> truth.
> 
> We need to embrace being a Smalltalk and sell our value proposition in terms 
> that mean something to somebody who doesn't already get Smalltalk. We failed 
> at that. Too vague, too ambiguous. It confused some of the Reddit people. 
> People to whom we are supposedly intending to attract and market to.
> 
> Jimmie
> 
> 
>> On 04/30/2014 01:22 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:
>> Again… you are missing the point.
>> nobody here doubts Pharo is a Smalltalk. 
>> nobody outside our small world believes Smalltalk is alive. 
>> 
>> And yes… you can argue all what you want. But you are scratching where it 
>> does not itch.
>> 
>> We choose not to *market* Pharo as a Smalltalk, because each time someone 
>> outside our small world hear about Smalltalk believes that is a long time 
>> dead language. No matter how much effort you put into explain that is not 
>> true, people will not believe it. And people is always more willing to try 
>> something new than something old (except in the case of wines and fine 
>> alcohols, of course). 
>> So… we prefer to track people to our community and let them notice wat WE 
>> ALL KNOW: Smalltalk is not dead, and Pharo is a proof of that. 
>> 
>> Esteban
>> 
>>> On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:07, Jimmie Houchin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In the Smalltalk heritage. Pharo comes from Smalltalk 80.
>>> 
>>> But we don't want to be stuck in 1980. We want Smalltalk 2014.
>>> Smalltalk 80 was modern for 1980. They didn't want to be stuck in 1976. ...
>>> 
>>> And Smalltalk isn't unique to this. Is C11 not a C because it is not K&R, 
>>> or C89, C90 or C99?
>>> Is Python 3.x not Python because it is not fully compatible with Python 2.x 
>>> which is dominant?
>>> 
>>> Pharo wants to be a modern Smalltalk able to empower people in this era to 
>>> do things that we do in 2014. We need appropriate modularity in the image. 
>>> We need the image to be clean. We need to learn the lessons we as 
>>> Smalltalker's have learned in the last 24 years and apply them to Pharo 
>>> Smalltalk. And I believe that is much of what Pharo is attempting to do.
>>> 
>>> Noel in his talk said that Smalltalk doesn't play well with others. And 
>>> with Pharo it still isn't as easy as in other languages like Python, Ruby, 
>>> Lua, etc. But with NativeBoost we have a tool which enables us to do much. 
>>> And NativeBoost isn't finished. I believe when NativeBoost is fully mature 
>>> and the vm/image has sufficiently changed to enable us. We will have one of 
>>> the best plays with others well stories.
>>> 
>>> I know in the app I am writing, NativeBoost's current condition struggled 
>>> with my library. It often crashed. This library has to deal with a C 
>>> Thread. Which is why I am spending my cur

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[Sebastian Sastre]

On Apr 30, 2014, at 3:52 PM, kilon alios  wrote:

> he/she lost me at "The benefit of more libraries is real but marginal"
> 
> thats a a big nope from me. 
> 
> If there is one lesson we can learn from Java is that more libraries is 
> EVERYTHING. 

not to mention Javascript and the Nodiverse

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[Johan Brichau]

Is that cause or consequence of popularity?

Johan

> On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:58, Sebastian Sastre  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2014, at 3:52 PM, kilon alios  wrote:
>> 
>> he/she lost me at "The benefit of more libraries is real but marginal"
>> 
>> thats a a big nope from me. 
>> 
>> If there is one lesson we can learn from Java is that more libraries is 
>> EVERYTHING. 
> 
> not to mention Javascript and the Nodiverse
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[Sebastian Sastre]

On Apr 30, 2014, at 4:11 PM, Johan Brichau  wrote:

> Is that cause or consequence of popularity?
> 
> Johan

Past the tipping point it starts to feel as consequence.

People gets attracted to what people pays attention to.

No attention, no business
http://sebastianconcept.com/brandIt/no-attention-no-business



Lucidity is the new capital
http://sebastianconcept.com/brandIt/lucidity-is-the-new-capital

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

Ronnie,

The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if 
those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be 
there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy 
for users to load something with just one click.

I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If I 
try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes.

Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is 
cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-)

But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing !

Sven

On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado  wrote:

> Hi Clément,
> 
> There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the 
> bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. Try 
> loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available in the 
> Roassal3D smalltalk hub http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
> 
> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 
> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) 
> loadDevelopment
> 
> For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an 
> interesting idea.
> 
> Greetings,
> Ronie
> 
> 
> 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
> The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D stuff.
> 
> I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off 
> Rossal with the 3.0 release
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera  wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because 
> > you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot 
> > show them a compiler).
> >
> > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on 
> > Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
> >
> > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
> >
> > 
> >
> > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
> >
> > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
> >
> > Thanks !
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Sebastian Sastre]

On Apr 30, 2014, at 3:22 PM, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:

> We choose not to *market* Pharo as a Smalltalk, because each time someone 
> outside our small world hear about Smalltalk believes that is a long time 
> dead language


Then it’s a failed decision as Reddit reactions proves.

What’s better?

We have past issues we prefer not talk about, and our desire to not talk about 
is so bad that we did a site with that in mind because we are willing to 
pretend we’re something else so you dear jerk (that aren’t willing to use/try 
smalltalk anyway) might stop bullying us by telling us we’re dead. Oh wait! it 
works! a bully has a conversion click! Okay, download, click image. Open, oops 
Smalltalk everywhere. Now you’re dead and your marketing tried to fool jerks. 
What are you now famous for?

Versus

Confronting a jerk that says "you’re dead” every time by telling them Dead? 
hey.. see that product/startup over there? yah.. Smalltalk. And proudly 
preserve the integrity of Smalltalk’s design principles as always and more?

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[Johan Brichau]

The point I take home from the article is that every popular language became 
popular for a reason. None of those reasons where good design or the presence 
of libraries.

Javascript because it's the only language that runs in a browser.
Java and C# because they have corporate backings.
Ruby because of Ruby on Rails.

It's maybe an over-simplification of the real contributing factors (we forget 
education and learning curve), but would JavaScript be as popular when there 
would be more languages available in a web browser?

Johan

> On 30 Apr 2014, at 21:16, Sebastian Sastre  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Apr 30, 2014, at 4:11 PM, Johan Brichau  wrote:
>> 
>> Is that cause or consequence of popularity?
>> 
>> Johan
> 
> Past the tipping point it starts to feel as consequence.
> 
> People gets attracted to what people pays attention to.
> 
> No attention, no business
> http://sebastianconcept.com/brandIt/no-attention-no-business
> 
> 
> 
> Lucidity is the new capital
> http://sebastianconcept.com/brandIt/lucidity-is-the-new-capital
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[kilon alios]

For me at least , the way I see it is that each coder is special. We all
can find common ground, but we can all find differences. As a coder you
want a library to solve the specific problem you had at this point, it
maybe it a small one or a big one. Having more libraries ensures that you
will be much more likely to find code solutions to your problem.

This is where Java invested , so I would say in the case of Java itself its
the cause. Java invested in having a huge library , something it was
unheard of at the time. I mean why on earth a user would want to install a
big fat download to get tons of libraries the user does not really need for
running one java app ? Yet it worked like a charm because developers loved
the fact that they had in their hand a huge monolithic platform that could
satisfy their wildest dream as far as library support went through. And on
top that platform was cross platform.

And Java did that at a time when hundreds of MBs did matter and internet
connections were not very fast.

I found a link in my twitter yesterday about the Java tutorial, it send me
to 1000 pages introductory tutorial. Its insane the amount of things Java
packs inside its libraries. I would say the recipe definitely worked for
them , but then they had the resources to do this in the first place.

Coming from Python we have a saying "batteries included" meaning the
library that cpython comes with is very very big. You literally find tons
of things inside it. Its no Java but it definitely follows the recipe and
python started small.Yet python started for practical unnknow to one of the
top most popular languages .

 As Sebastian said there is also npm

and we should not forget Perls CPAN

One of my favorite languages Delphi also used this recipe of success which
still is a fairly popular language.

Anywhere you look nowdays, language become less and less relevant and its
all about libraries, libraries and of course, libraries.


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:11 PM, Johan Brichau  wrote:

> Is that cause or consequence of popularity?
>
> Johan
>
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:58, Sebastian Sastre 
> wrote:
>
>
> On Apr 30, 2014, at 3:52 PM, kilon alios  wrote:
>
> he/she lost me at "The benefit of more libraries is real but marginal"
>
> thats a a big nope from me.
>
> If there is one lesson we can learn from Java is that more libraries is
> EVERYTHING.
>
>
> not to mention Javascript and the Nodiverse 
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[vfclists .]

On 30 April 2014 19:33, Esteban A. Maringolo  wrote:

> 2014-04-30 15:07 GMT-03:00 Jimmie Houchin :
> > Here is an unfortunate quote from that thread.
> >
> > """
> > emaringolo 1 point an hour ago
> > Pharo is aimed to do serious/business development, and it's been
> reshaping
> > itself since its conception (several years ago when it forked from
> Squeak).
> > It doesn't want to have any backward or "historic" compatibility with
> other
> > Smalltalks.
> > You can see its changelogs and the roadmap for future versions to see
> how it
> > is different, and how it will be different.
> > """
> >
> > This makes it sound like Pharo wants remove compatibility simply for the
> > sake of not being a Smalltalk. As opposed to what I believe Esteban
> meant.
> > And yes I understand that English is not his native language, and there
> are
> > many for whom it is, who still use it poorly.
>
> That's certainly an interpretation.
>
> I didn't mean it wants to REMOVE compatibility, but I did mean it
> doesn't wan't backward compatibility with Smalltalk per se. Sometimes
> it isn't compatible with previous versions of itself!
>
> I remember having read exactly that: "we don't want backward
> compatibility".
>
> > What I believe he meant, is that Pharo will not be constrained by
> backward compatibility.
> > If a change or feature that is of value to Pharo Smalltalk. That feature
> will be done even
> > if it means breaking backward compatibility with other Smalltalk 80 based
> > Smalltalks.
>
> This is exactly what I meant.
>
> > We are moving forward. But this does not invalidate Pharo being
> > a Smalltalk. As has been stated before, breaking changes happened in
> > Smalltalk 76 and 80.
>
> As a disclaimer I'm a strong defender of not hiding the "Smalltalk"
> heritage in Pharo.
> However there is no need to name something "Pharo Smalltalk" to have a
> connection with its past, but also no need to avoid any mention of the
> word Smalltalk in the new home page. At least from the SEO point of
> view. :)
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Esteban A. Maringolo
>
>

The problem here is that if you downplay the Smalltalk foundations of Pharo
then you only reinforce the impression that Smalltalk is outdated when it
is revealed that Pharo is a Smalltalk. What matters more is whether Pharo
is a "Smalltalk done right", or Smalltalk for the New web 3.0 era, where
none of the popular languages offer a live coding environment.

An open source Smalltalk should really target Python in the areas where
Python is used as a scripting front end to systems written in higher
performance languages, ie stuff like Blender, Unity, Gephi etc. Power users
who need live interactive environments should be the main target of a tool
like Pharo. That also fits with early Smalltalk designers principles which
were focused on helping end users model their stuff, children to a large
extent.

For software developers something like Smalltalk/X would probably be a
better bet if the licensing could draw more developers to it, or one of the
other Java based Smalltalk if they were finished. They need better
interoperability and the ability to drop down to C or some other low level
language when they need it. Software developers are not thinking about what
they can do with it now, they are thinking of what they will not be able to
do with it 18 months down the line.


-- 
Frank Church

===
http://devblog.brahmancreations.com

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[kilon alios]

"Javascript because it's the only language that runs in a browser"

Eh nope

Every language out there runs in the Browser. Actually you will find more
than one implementation for each language. Yes they compile to Javascript
but then that does not mean anything. Every language on Desktop compiles to
machine (including Javascript) code, that does not mean that programming
languages don't exist. And I am excluding the fact that Javascript compiles
to C for optimisation reasons.

What you say might had been true once upon a time but back then web
development was not that relevant. Do you know why ? Because nowadays we
have WebGL , Canvas, Video , Audio and all that are now libraries
accessible for Javascript. Those things were not available back then, web
sites were static and boring.

Those libraries change all that.

Ruby on Rails is a library

C# was created by the same guy that created Delphi for Borland that went to
work for Microsoft. Delphi is similarly to Java a very much library driven
environment. Delphi is very much inspired by smalltalk IDE actually but it
comes packed with a very big library of components. .NET is very similar.
Afterall .NET was created because Java threatened Visual C++.

I am not saying its the only reason but if I would pick two thing I would
have say

1) Marketing
2) Libraries

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[Johan Brichau]

> Yet it worked like a charm because developers loved the fact that they had in 
> their hand a huge monolithic platform that could satisfy their wildest dream 
> as far as library support went through. And on top that platform was cross 
> platform. 

Sounds like Smalltalk :-)

Don't get me wrong: a language without libraries is like an OS without 
applications, but the point is that most of the unpopular languages have 
sufficient libraries. After doing Smalltalk for over 15 years, I still discover 
things inside the libraries that come with a standard image. 

And yes, some libraries will attract people: office libraries in .net, RoR in 
Ruby, etc...

I think once sufficient libraries are present, an active community is more 
important (in the absence of large company backing) and libraries are a 
consequence.

But hey, we should probably go have a beer over this ;-)

Johan

[Pharo-dev] [OT] The Sociological Science Behind Social Networks and Social Influence

[Sebastian Sastre]

Not exactly pharo-dev related but people related and Pharo is done by people 
and this might contribute to understand the dynamics of people:

Nicholas Christakis: The Sociological Science Behind Social Networks and Social 
Influence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wadBvDPeE4E

Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[Johan Brichau]

> On 30 Apr 2014, at 21:51, kilon alios  wrote:
> 
> Every language out there runs in the Browser

You may know this:
https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript

Johan

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[kilon alios]

We should not forget the "Java is dead" craze over a decade ago. It was the
time where dynamic language like python and ruby were gaining a lot of
traction but here we are a decade later and Java is alive and kicking.

I seriously doubt that there are a lot of people out there that take
"Smalltalk dead" seriously when the internet is littered with "C is Dead" ,
"Javascript is Dead" , "Lisp is Dead" etc etc

Its just a meaningless word that people love to use in a desperate attempt
to get more hits and appear in Google results. Its more like a joke.

I completely agree with you that "Smalltalk inspired" is reinforcing "Sorry
for dead Smalltalk , we will try to follow its legacy, RIP Smalltalk" , at
least this is how I see it. I may be wrong.

The question I want to raise is how many coders out there are even aware
what Smalltalk really is ? I was not aware of Smalltalk 2 years ago. Thats
the sad truth.

Another mistake is that people tend to over idealising Smalltalk and it
appears as if Smalltalk used to be popular, but I have found no evidence
that Smalltalk was ever popular. Again I may be wrong but this is also
maybe a motivation to regard Smalltalk dead.


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:38 PM, vfclists .  wrote:

>
>
>
> On 30 April 2014 19:33, Esteban A. Maringolo  wrote:
>
>> 2014-04-30 15:07 GMT-03:00 Jimmie Houchin :
>> > Here is an unfortunate quote from that thread.
>> >
>> > """
>> > emaringolo 1 point an hour ago
>> > Pharo is aimed to do serious/business development, and it's been
>> reshaping
>> > itself since its conception (several years ago when it forked from
>> Squeak).
>> > It doesn't want to have any backward or "historic" compatibility with
>> other
>> > Smalltalks.
>> > You can see its changelogs and the roadmap for future versions to see
>> how it
>> > is different, and how it will be different.
>> > """
>> >
>> > This makes it sound like Pharo wants remove compatibility simply for the
>> > sake of not being a Smalltalk. As opposed to what I believe Esteban
>> meant.
>> > And yes I understand that English is not his native language, and there
>> are
>> > many for whom it is, who still use it poorly.
>>
>> That's certainly an interpretation.
>>
>> I didn't mean it wants to REMOVE compatibility, but I did mean it
>> doesn't wan't backward compatibility with Smalltalk per se. Sometimes
>> it isn't compatible with previous versions of itself!
>>
>> I remember having read exactly that: "we don't want backward
>> compatibility".
>>
>> > What I believe he meant, is that Pharo will not be constrained by
>> backward compatibility.
>> > If a change or feature that is of value to Pharo Smalltalk. That
>> feature will be done even
>> > if it means breaking backward compatibility with other Smalltalk 80
>> based
>> > Smalltalks.
>>
>> This is exactly what I meant.
>>
>> > We are moving forward. But this does not invalidate Pharo being
>> > a Smalltalk. As has been stated before, breaking changes happened in
>> > Smalltalk 76 and 80.
>>
>> As a disclaimer I'm a strong defender of not hiding the "Smalltalk"
>> heritage in Pharo.
>> However there is no need to name something "Pharo Smalltalk" to have a
>> connection with its past, but also no need to avoid any mention of the
>> word Smalltalk in the new home page. At least from the SEO point of
>> view. :)
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>> Esteban A. Maringolo
>>
>>
>
> The problem here is that if you downplay the Smalltalk foundations of
> Pharo then you only reinforce the impression that Smalltalk is outdated
> when it is revealed that Pharo is a Smalltalk. What matters more is whether
> Pharo is a "Smalltalk done right", or Smalltalk for the New web 3.0 era,
> where none of the popular languages offer a live coding environment.
>
> An open source Smalltalk should really target Python in the areas where
> Python is used as a scripting front end to systems written in higher
> performance languages, ie stuff like Blender, Unity, Gephi etc. Power users
> who need live interactive environments should be the main target of a tool
> like Pharo. That also fits with early Smalltalk designers principles which
> were focused on helping end users model their stuff, children to a large
> extent.
>
> For software developers something like Smalltalk/X would probably be a
> better bet if the licensing could draw more developers to it, or one of the
> other Java based Smalltalk if they were finished. They need better
> interoperability and the ability to drop down to C or some other low level
> language when they need it. Software developers are not thinking about what
> they can do with it now, they are thinking of what they will not be able to
> do with it 18 months down the line.
>
>
> --
> Frank Church
>
> ===
> http://devblog.brahmancreations.com
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

[jannik laval]

Thank you guys,

I will try to find something that does not break Phratch.

Cheers,
Jannik


2014-04-30 19:43 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :

> I thought that we did that already:
>
>  OSEnvironment class>>#isAvailable
>  NativeBoost class>>#isAvailable
>  PlatformIndependentEnvironment
>
> No ?
>
> Are you using the latest 3.0 ?
>
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:49, Jean Baptiste Arnaud 
> wrote:
>
> > That the point I want to checks it, run test and if work integrated for
> raspbian.
> > It is completely generated it shouldn't have any problem. But ...
> >
> > A really nice guy can just do the image side hack to avoid FileSystem
> error.
> >
> > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:24, Douglas McPherson  wrote:
> >
> >> As a data point, OSProcess works "out-of-the-box" with the Squeak
> interpreter VM shipped with Raspbian. So should be ok in Pharo, but I
> haven't tried it.
> >>
> >> Doug
> >>
> >> On Apr 30, 2014, at 09:03 , David T. Lewis wrote:
> >>
> 
>  There are no NativeBoost on Rpi, FFI or OSProcess.
>  Basically the fileSystem work, but some data are fetch via env
> variable
>  and then NativeBoost.
>  The solution is to bypass all the request of env variable.
>  You should use another way until, we finish to integrate a way to
> request
>  correctly the env variable (NB on arm).
> 
>  I will studies the possibility to reintegrate fast the OSProcess
> plugin to
>  offer "better" solution.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I would expect OSProcess to work without problems on Rpi, although I do
> >>> not have a way to test it. The plugin should be fine. Maybe some
> changes
> >>> will be needed on the image side for detecting the platform, I'm not
> sure.
> >>>
> >>> Let me know if I can help, I will be glad to add any necessary patches
> to
> >>> OSProcess.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Jean Baptiste Arnaud
> > jbaptiste.arn...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


-- 

~~Jannik Laval~~
École des Mines de Douai
Enseignant-chercheur
http://www.jannik-laval.eu
http://www.phratch.com
http://car.mines-douai.fr/

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Sean P. DeNigris]

sebast...@flowingconcept.com wrote
> Then it’s a failed decision as Reddit reactions proves.

I think that's a bit premature. The reaction on Reddit was because there was
no mention on the Pharo site/release-notice of Smalltalk *anywhere*. There
was no path to take people from the sound bite to the full picture (I'm
writing some thoughts on that right now and will start a separate thread). 

You don't wave the white flag after losing one battle! And certainly not
when the evidence of losing even that battle is a few commenters on Reddit!
We learned an important lesson - if we're not going to provide people with a
neat little pink plane Smalltalk box to put Pharo in, then we better have
some good answers as to what it /really/ is when they start investigating.
Each one of those criticisms is an opportunity. The useful question is -
what supporting explanation on the website would have taken their initial
curiosity, possibly enabled by not being turned off by a misunderstanding of
the word "Smalltalk", and guided them down the path of understanding the
fuller picture that - it is an environment, and a library, and a dialect of
the Smalltalk language.



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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[Pharo-dev] Pharo is Smalltalk… and Not

[Sean P. DeNigris]

All of the arguments why Pharo is Smalltalk are correct.

Let me tell you a story... 
My friends and I are planning a trip to Spain. I am explaining that in
Spanish, "yo" - which means "hi" in English slang - means "l". They are
arguing passionately that "yo" means "hi" and presenting evidence upon
evidence to prove it. Then I snap back that, no, "yo" definitely means "I".
Ridiculous, right? Sounds kind of like a Monty Python skit.

Well, Pharo is planning a trip to the programming world of non-Smalltalkers.
I am explaining that in Ruby, "Smalltalk" - which means "a language with a
development environment written in itself which both were designed to
continually evolve*" in the Smalltalk community - means "Smalltalk-80". My
friends are arguing passionately that "Smalltalk" means the former and
presenting evidence upon evidence to prove it.

Both of these disagreements fail to take into account that truth is
contextual and language imprecise.

So please, please, please, please, please, no more theses on why Pharo is
Smalltalk, or why it's not. It's neither, and both, and more!

We're talking about effectively marketing to non-Smalltalkers, and our
theory (only time will tell) is: for our first initial sound bite,
Smalltalk-inspired (or silent about Smalltalk, which I think may be even
better) will be more intention revealing to the target audience than
Smalltalk. Either way, we're going to have to do some more explaining if
they're interested in hearing more. But with the first, maybe, they will be
interested in hearing more before being turned off by a preconceived (and
incomplete) notion of what "Smalltalk" is.

But there is a valid question here of how to manage the inevitable
misunderstandings... I'll posted some ideas for that in a bit...



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-dev] good article on mainstream adoption of programming languages

[kilon alios]

I am sorry but again a big NO from me.

I am interested in two field, Graphics (2D and 3D) and music/audio
synthesis. Both of these fields are dominated by C/C++.

You could say is because of the fact that C/C++ is heavily optimised and of
course I would agree but its not that of a big reason because
a) other languages can use C/C++ libs
b) its possible to compile a language to C/C++. For example python has
cython , similar to Slang for Pharo. Take your language of choice outputs
optimised C/C++ that can get compiled and linked back to your favorite
language as a library.

Still the vast majority of coders code in C/C++ for these two fields. Why ?
Simple, libraries, tons of them. There is no way anyone would port all of
these libraries to Python let alone Pharo. Its not hard to use those
libraries from Python but people dont do it , its just more effort, and
because its simple just to do it on the language the lib is documented.

This is why also language popularity is highly heated discussion,
popularity highly fluctuates.


For example you go web dev Javascript is king, you leave web dev Javascript
becomes practically unknown. Enterprise ? Java is the undisputed king.
Windows development ? .NET and C++ hands down. How about iOS ? Objective C
without a doubt. Android ? Java again. Unix/Linux ? of course C/C++ and so
on so forth.

You could even say that languages prosper more when they pick a niche and
again the reason why that happens is because of course of libraries.
Afterall the language itself is rarely non general purpose. Its the
libraries that give the specialisation to the language.


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 10:55 PM, Johan Brichau  wrote:

>
> > Yet it worked like a charm because developers loved the fact that they
> had in their hand a huge monolithic platform that could satisfy their
> wildest dream as far as library support went through. And on top that
> platform was cross platform.
>
> Sounds like Smalltalk :-)
>
> Don't get me wrong: a language without libraries is like an OS without
> applications, but the point is that most of the unpopular languages have
> sufficient libraries. After doing Smalltalk for over 15 years, I still
> discover things inside the libraries that come with a standard image.
>
> And yes, some libraries will attract people: office libraries in .net, RoR
> in Ruby, etc...
>
> I think once sufficient libraries are present, an active community is more
> important (in the absence of large company backing) and libraries are a
> consequence.
>
> But hey, we should probably go have a beer over this ;-)
>
> Johan
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Tudor Girba]

Excellent work!

Thank you: Nico, Esteban, Marcus!

Doru


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

> yeah, and don’t forget Nico’s effort :)
> I put him real pressure on him last 3 weeks, and he took it without
> complain… and he did a great work :)
>
> Esteban
>
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:35, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:
>
> > Marcus Denker-4 wrote
> >> The new website is online!
> >
> > Wow! Instantly obvious that Aurelia was involved because it has that
> "well
> > designed" look instead of our usual "I'm an engineer trying my best"
> look,
> > lol ;-P
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Cheers,
> > Sean
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/New-Website-online-tp4757241p4757250.html
> > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> >
>
>
>


-- 
www.tudorgirba.com

"Every thing has its own flow"

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Jimmie Houchin]

I understand. My apologies for contributing to one of those days.
For me that day was while I was reading this thread and watching Doru 
and Sean arguing with Eliot. It almost made me want to go back to 
Squeak. Not that I am saying there is anything wrong with Squeak.


They were firmly arguing that Pharo is NOT Smalltalk. They contend that 
making changes that make it different than Smalltalk-80 make it not 
Smalltalk.


http://www.tudorgirba.com/blog/pharo-is-pharo

Their contentions were not refuted. I wanted to put forth my 
understanding and opinion that Pharo is a Smalltalk.


And then you reply stating of course everybody here knows Pharo is 
Smalltalk. But that is exactly what Doru is arguing against.


If Pharo is going to distance itself from Smalltalk and be consistent 
about it, then every Pharo reference to Smalltalk in the image or 
website or wikipedia unless historical should be changed.


This inconsistency makes Pharo look bad.

Jimmie

On 04/30/2014 01:58 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

Some days a I really would love not to love smalltalk...

On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:52, Jimmie Houchin > wrote:


But that is the point. This kind of marketing is false. It denies who 
we are.


As soon as they look at Pharo. Learn to use and then learn that Pharo 
is a Smalltalk and that we are liars.


Did keeping silent about Pharo help in the Reddit thread. No.
Did the current marketing explain well what Pharo is. No.
Read the thread. People were confused.
And regardless of the marketing attempt, the fact of Pharo being a 
Smalltalk did not remain suppressed. So therefore, those who were 
closed minded against Smalltalk have then been alerted, and they can 
close their minds. Attempting to not make it plain was an abject failure.


People who understand the value of Smalltalk and of a modern open 
source implementation will come.



I guess none of the commercial Smalltalks are alive? Nobody knows of 
them. They are going broke?


Gemstone, VisualWorks, ...

What is this new thing that people are using?

Clojure based on Lisp. Not new.
Python 23 years old.
Lua 21
Ruby 19

Clojure based on Lisp but adding modern functional features disproves 
any thought that an old language with lots of baggage can't attract 
new users.

From the Clojure home page. """Clojure is a dialect of Lisp"""
They embrace their heritage and are better for it. They also detail 
their value proposition and being a Lisp is part of it.



I am all agreeable to attracting people to our community. But 
falseness isn't the way.


Not everybody is closed minded and ignorant. Those that are we can 
wait until they are not.


But Pharo has to offer people the proper value proposition. When it 
does, I believe it will attract sincere people. When the value of 
Pharo meets the needs of the people, it will attact the appropriate 
people. But until then, we can market it however we want and they 
will not care. Right now Pharo is working hard to reach that point 
that it can offer them something they will value. For some it already 
does. For others not yet. That not yet, it a bigger obstacle than 
Pharo being marketed as a Smalltalk and telling the truth.


We need to embrace being a Smalltalk and sell our value proposition 
in terms that mean something to somebody who doesn't already get 
Smalltalk. We failed at that. Too vague, too ambiguous. It confused 
some of the Reddit people. People to whom we are supposedly intending 
to attract and market to.


Jimmie


On 04/30/2014 01:22 PM, Esteban Lorenzano wrote:

Again… you are missing the point.
nobody here doubts Pharo is a Smalltalk.
nobody outside our small world believes Smalltalk is alive.

And yes… you can argue all what you want. But you are scratching 
where it does not itch.


We choose not to *market* Pharo as a Smalltalk, because each time 
someone outside our small world hear about Smalltalk believes that 
is a long time dead language. No matter how much effort you put into 
explain that is not true, people will not believe it. And people is 
always more willing to try something new than something old (except 
in the case of wines and fine alcohols, of course).
So… we prefer to track people to our community and let them notice 
wat WE ALL KNOW: Smalltalk is not dead, and Pharo is a proof of that.


Esteban

On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:07, Jimmie Houchin > wrote:



In the Smalltalk heritage. Pharo comes from Smalltalk 80.

But we don't want to be stuck in 1980. We want Smalltalk 2014.
Smalltalk 80 was modern for 1980. They didn't want to be stuck in 
1976. ...


And Smalltalk isn't unique to this. Is C11 not a C because it is 
not K&R, or C89, C90 or C99?
Is Python 3.x not Python because it is not fully compatible with 
Python 2.x which is dominant?


Pharo wants to be a modern Smalltalk able to empower people in this 
era to do things that we do in 2014. We need appropriate modularity 
in the image. We need the image to be clean. We

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Sean P. DeNigris]

I was reading this thread and watching... Sean arguing... that Pharo is NOT
Smalltalk

No As I and Esteban (at least, maybe others) have repeated, *we are
NOT saying that Pharo is not Smalltalk*.

Either we're not explaining ourselves well or (more likely IMHO) everyone is
so emotional over this (and it's a good thing that we care that much) that
they're not actually reading what we're saying.

How can you read either
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-is-Smalltalk-and-Not-td4757342.html or my two
main points at
http://forum.world.st/a-Pharo-talk-from-a-ruby-conference-tp4756805p4756995.html
and say that I'm saying that?!

I think there is a middle ground where everyone gets what they want. I've
tried to express it in the first link above. Please - I love differences and
discussion, but if you're going to react, react /specifically/ to what I
said (e.g. the two points I made in the second link), because right now, you
are only arguing with yourself ;)



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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[Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

[oscar@gmail]

Holy smoley!

117 emails since I checked a few hours ago?  Maybe we should rename Pharo 
“Prolix”?

:-)

on

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is Smalltalk… and Not

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Here's my musings about how we integrate the two motives - to acknowledge our
heritage /and/ break out of our pigeon hole. My key point here is to
gradually introduce the Smalltalk part after people are deep enough to have
gotten excited about the ideas without dismissing them because of cultural
baggage...

Drilling down:
1. Sound bite: "Pharo - The immersive programming experience"
2. Why Pharo: (about a paragraph, like the one on the site now, "Pharo gives
you immediate and total control over your programming experience..."
3. What is it. Here we can accurately paint the nuanced picture,
distinguishing Smalltalk as an idea based on design principles vs.
Smalltalk-80. If "Smalltalk" more exactly means an environment + libraries +
a language (I think that order is important - the syntax was always the
least interesting thing about Smalltalk). What we might really say if we had
the time to go beyond an initial sound bite is: 
Pharo is:
- a [pick 2 or 3 of: dynamic, open, immersive, live] environment (like 
an
IDE and OS rolled into one)
- beautifully designed core libraries including a web client/server, 
FFI,
Y, Z...
- a dialect of the Smalltalk programming language

For #1, the inspiration is most accurately the Dynabook
For #2, IMHO enough components have been rewritten to stand on it's own
For #3, this is where we are most obviously a Smalltalk, and should be clear
about it

And in an FAQ answer any common objections people might have:
Q: Is Pharo Smalltalk?
A: When most people hear "Smalltalk", they think of Smalltalk-80, which
Pharo is not. However, Smalltalk is really an idea... the lineage of which
Pharo is a proud member
Q: Can I talk to the world outside the environment?
A: Yes! While the original Smalltalk was quite insulated, now you can
[interact on the command line](link to unix command line examples e.g. the
very Ruby-like pharo [image filename] -e "self inform: 'hello world'"),
[talk to C libraries](link to native boost), etc.
yada yada yada



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

[Sean P. DeNigris]

onierstrasz wrote
> 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago?

110 of those were mine, sorry :-P 
Signing off for today...



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo is Smalltalk… and Not

[Andreas Wacknitz]

Why not just 
'Pharo is a Smalltalk for the 21st century. What we have now C#, Java and the 
like will try to „invent" during the next thirty years!
If you want the future now come and take a closer look...'

Andreas

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

[kilon alios]

Personally I am very interested to see how developers see Pharo, because
the way they see it is also the future of Pharo the directions it is going.
So while some may find these type of discussion derailing its very
important for the direction of Pharo.

Even though its very important to add code to Pharo and enhance and bug
fix, its also very important to have a clear vision that the community
agrees on.

The discussion also has raised some important issues of how Pharo is
promoted, obviously Promotion of Pharo is a rather huge deal for Pharo
future. I see these Emails as the start of a very long process in the
future of Pharo where the community tries to feel in the dark its path and
the values it represents. Its also important to get the message (Pharo is
all about messages afterall) loud and clear to newcomers or people
considering giving Pharo a try.

Sean I am definitely interested in the discussion and your opinion, I have
very little to contribute to it, but its great to hear the opinion of
people that have very large experience of Smalltalk.

Some say "opinions are like assholes everyone has one" (no intention to be
rude) but my belief is opinions however wrong they may be, do matter
because they reveal personal needs , desires and dreams. Pharo like every
other product out there is made to please people and accommodate for these
things.

Also these discussions are far from exclusive to Pharo. I am coming from
Python there there is the Zen of Pharo.

"

   1. Beautiful is better than ugly.
   2. Explicit is better than implicit.
   3. Simple is better than complex.
   4. Complex is better than complicated.
   5. Flat is better than nested.
   6. Sparse is better than dense.
   7. Readability counts.
   8. Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
  1. Although practicality beats purity.
   9. Errors should never pass silently.
  1. Unless explicitly silenced.
   10. In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
   11. There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
  1. Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
   12. Now is better than never.
  1. Although never is often better than *right* now.
   13. If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
   14. If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
   15. NameSpace s are one honking great
   idea -- let's do more of those!

   16. "

This started as a joke from a single guy. Then it was included as a module
in python standard library , the moment you import the module it executes a
method that prints this text. The joke became something very serious, it is
something that many python library authors take as a guide for designing
their libraries. This piece of joke has become so serious that currently
python libraries uses this set of principles and libraries that don't are
labeled by python coders as "unpythonic" which is considered a bad thing.

For me this indicates that a community has chosen a path and most
importantly a path they have chosen to walk together as one unit. I don't
think there is anything stronger than that.


On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:

> onierstrasz wrote
> > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago?
>
> 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P
> Signing off for today...
>
>
>
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

[Jean Baptiste Arnaud]

On rasp there a re no native boost and no OSProcess for now but OSProcess seems 
work well on my own Jenkins job.
After few test I will send a pull request.
Here is a OSProcess added version of the rasp VM
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/ARM-Experimentation/job/RaspberryPi-Cross-Compilation-JB/
On 30 Apr 2014, at 19:43, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

> I thought that we did that already:
> 
> OSEnvironment class>>#isAvailable
> NativeBoost class>>#isAvailable
> PlatformIndependentEnvironment
> 
> No ?
> 
> Are you using the latest 3.0 ?
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:49, Jean Baptiste Arnaud  
> wrote:
> 
>> That the point I want to checks it, run test and if work integrated for 
>> raspbian.
>> It is completely generated it shouldn't have any problem. But ...
>> 
>> A really nice guy can just do the image side hack to avoid FileSystem error.
>> 
>> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:24, Douglas McPherson  wrote:
>> 
>>> As a data point, OSProcess works "out-of-the-box" with the Squeak 
>>> interpreter VM shipped with Raspbian. So should be ok in Pharo, but I 
>>> haven't tried it.
>>> 
>>> Doug
>>> 
>>> On Apr 30, 2014, at 09:03 , David T. Lewis wrote:
>>> 
> 
> There are no NativeBoost on Rpi, FFI or OSProcess.
> Basically the fileSystem work, but some data are fetch via env variable
> and then NativeBoost.
> The solution is to bypass all the request of env variable.
> You should use another way until, we finish to integrate a way to request
> correctly the env variable (NB on arm).
> 
> I will studies the possibility to reintegrate fast the OSProcess plugin to
> offer "better" solution.
 
 
 I would expect OSProcess to work without problems on Rpi, although I do
 not have a way to test it. The plugin should be fine. Maybe some changes
 will be needed on the image side for detecting the platform, I'm not sure.
 
 Let me know if I can help, I will be glad to add any necessary patches to
 OSProcess.
 
 Dave
 
 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best Regards
>> Jean Baptiste Arnaud
>> jbaptiste.arn...@gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 



Best Regards
Jean Baptiste Arnaud
jbaptiste.arn...@gmail.com

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

[Ronie Salgado]

Hi Sven,

About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there,
because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a
while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs.
As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in
my machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track
where it is.

As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something
that we need.

If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I
can focus on getting a stable release soon.

Greetings,
Ronie


2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :

> Ronnie,
>
> The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations,
> if those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should
> no be there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it
> super easy for users to load something with just one click.
>
> I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works.
> If I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes.
>
> Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one
> is cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-)
>
> But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing !
>
> Sven
>
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado  wrote:
>
> > Hi Clément,
> >
> > There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the
> bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error.
> Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available
> in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub
> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
> >
> > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package:
> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d)
> loadDevelopment
> >
> > For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an
> interesting idea.
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Ronie
> >
> >
> > 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
> > The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D
> stuff.
> >
> > I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off
> Rossal with the 3.0 release
> >
> > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people
> (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I
> cannot show them a compiler).
> > >
> > > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on
> Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
> > >
> > > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
> > >
> > > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
> > >
> > > Thanks !
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

We have that list too:

Page 3 of 
http://www.pharo-project.org/download/pictures/be/j32hajf3kjdbsebqo0a9zc5tk8ekxt/pharovision.pdf

Or this version:

http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2012-May/004059.html

Now that I see this list again, I feel that it should be part of the image.

On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:33, kilon alios  wrote:

> Personally I am very interested to see how developers see Pharo, because the 
> way they see it is also the future of Pharo the directions it is going. So 
> while some may find these type of discussion derailing its very important for 
> the direction of Pharo. 
> 
> Even though its very important to add code to Pharo and enhance and bug fix, 
> its also very important to have a clear vision that the community agrees on. 
> 
> The discussion also has raised some important issues of how Pharo is 
> promoted, obviously Promotion of Pharo is a rather huge deal for Pharo 
> future. I see these Emails as the start of a very long process in the future 
> of Pharo where the community tries to feel in the dark its path and the 
> values it represents. Its also important to get the message (Pharo is all 
> about messages afterall) loud and clear to newcomers or people considering 
> giving Pharo a try. 
> 
> Sean I am definitely interested in the discussion and your opinion, I have 
> very little to contribute to it, but its great to hear the opinion of people 
> that have very large experience of Smalltalk.  
> 
> Some say "opinions are like assholes everyone has one" (no intention to be 
> rude) but my belief is opinions however wrong they may be, do matter because 
> they reveal personal needs , desires and dreams. Pharo like every other 
> product out there is made to please people and accommodate for these things.
> 
> Also these discussions are far from exclusive to Pharo. I am coming from 
> Python there there is the Zen of Pharo. 
> 
> "
>   • Beautiful is better than ugly.
>   • Explicit is better than implicit.
>   • Simple is better than complex.
>   • Complex is better than complicated.
>   • Flat is better than nested.
>   • Sparse is better than dense.
>   • Readability counts.
>   • Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
>   • Although practicality beats purity.
>   • Errors should never pass silently.
>   • Unless explicitly silenced.
>   • In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
>   • There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
>   • Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're 
> Dutch.
>   • Now is better than never.
>   • Although never is often better than right now.
>   • If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
>   • If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
>   • NameSpaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
> 
>   • "
> This started as a joke from a single guy. Then it was included as a module in 
> python standard library , the moment you import the module it executes a 
> method that prints this text. The joke became something very serious, it is 
> something that many python library authors take as a guide for designing 
> their libraries. This piece of joke has become so serious that currently 
> python libraries uses this set of principles and libraries that don't are 
> labeled by python coders as "unpythonic" which is considered a bad thing. 
> 
> For me this indicates that a community has chosen a path and most importantly 
> a path they have chosen to walk together as one unit. I don't think there is 
> anything stronger than that. 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris  
> wrote:
> onierstrasz wrote
> > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago?
> 
> 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P
> Signing off for today...
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:48, Ronie Salgado  wrote:

> Hi Sven,
> 
> About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, 
> because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a 
> while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs.

I suspected as much, it probably was copied in a bit too early.

> As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my 
> machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where 
> it is.

OK.

> As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that 
> we need.
> 
> If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I 
> can focus on getting a stable release soon.

No need to do anything special for me, just keep on doing things at your own 
schedule, and be sure to let us know when we mortals can start using it.

> Greetings,
> Ronie
> 
> 
> 2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
> Ronnie,
> 
> The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if 
> those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be 
> there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy 
> for users to load something with just one click.
> 
> I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If 
> I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes.
> 
> Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is 
> cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-)
> 
> But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing !
> 
> Sven
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado  wrote:
> 
> > Hi Clément,
> >
> > There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the 
> > bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. 
> > Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available 
> > in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub 
> > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
> >
> > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 
> > 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) 
> > loadDevelopment
> >
> > For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an 
> > interesting idea.
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Ronie
> >
> >
> > 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
> > The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D 
> > stuff.
> >
> > I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off 
> > Rossal with the 3.0 release
> >
> > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because 
> > > you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot 
> > > show them a compiler).
> > >
> > > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on 
> > > Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
> > >
> > > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
> > >
> > > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
> > >
> > > Thanks !
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo renamed to "MuchTalk"

[kilon alios]

yeap definitely sounds a like a good idea to me :)


On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 12:52 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

> We have that list too:
>
> Page 3 of
> http://www.pharo-project.org/download/pictures/be/j32hajf3kjdbsebqo0a9zc5tk8ekxt/pharovision.pdf
>
> Or this version:
>
>
> http://lists.pharo.org/pipermail/pharo-users_lists.pharo.org/2012-May/004059.html
>
> Now that I see this list again, I feel that it should be part of the image.
>
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 23:33, kilon alios  wrote:
>
> > Personally I am very interested to see how developers see Pharo, because
> the way they see it is also the future of Pharo the directions it is going.
> So while some may find these type of discussion derailing its very
> important for the direction of Pharo.
> >
> > Even though its very important to add code to Pharo and enhance and bug
> fix, its also very important to have a clear vision that the community
> agrees on.
> >
> > The discussion also has raised some important issues of how Pharo is
> promoted, obviously Promotion of Pharo is a rather huge deal for Pharo
> future. I see these Emails as the start of a very long process in the
> future of Pharo where the community tries to feel in the dark its path and
> the values it represents. Its also important to get the message (Pharo is
> all about messages afterall) loud and clear to newcomers or people
> considering giving Pharo a try.
> >
> > Sean I am definitely interested in the discussion and your opinion, I
> have very little to contribute to it, but its great to hear the opinion of
> people that have very large experience of Smalltalk.
> >
> > Some say "opinions are like assholes everyone has one" (no intention to
> be rude) but my belief is opinions however wrong they may be, do matter
> because they reveal personal needs , desires and dreams. Pharo like every
> other product out there is made to please people and accommodate for these
> things.
> >
> > Also these discussions are far from exclusive to Pharo. I am coming from
> Python there there is the Zen of Pharo.
> >
> > "
> >   • Beautiful is better than ugly.
> >   • Explicit is better than implicit.
> >   • Simple is better than complex.
> >   • Complex is better than complicated.
> >   • Flat is better than nested.
> >   • Sparse is better than dense.
> >   • Readability counts.
> >   • Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
> >   • Although practicality beats purity.
> >   • Errors should never pass silently.
> >   • Unless explicitly silenced.
> >   • In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
> >   • There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to
> do it.
> >   • Although that way may not be obvious at first unless
> you're Dutch.
> >   • Now is better than never.
> >   • Although never is often better than right now.
> >   • If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
> >   • If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
> >   • NameSpaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!
> >
> >   • "
> > This started as a joke from a single guy. Then it was included as a
> module in python standard library , the moment you import the module it
> executes a method that prints this text. The joke became something very
> serious, it is something that many python library authors take as a guide
> for designing their libraries. This piece of joke has become so serious
> that currently python libraries uses this set of principles and libraries
> that don't are labeled by python coders as "unpythonic" which is considered
> a bad thing.
> >
> > For me this indicates that a community has chosen a path and most
> importantly a path they have chosen to walk together as one unit. I don't
> think there is anything stronger than that.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 11:52 PM, Sean P. DeNigris <
> s...@clipperadams.com> wrote:
> > onierstrasz wrote
> > > 117 emails since I checked a few hours ago?
> >
> > 110 of those were mine, sorry :-P
> > Signing off for today...
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Cheers,
> > Sean
> > --
> > View this message in context:
> http://forum.world.st/Pharo-renamed-to-MuchTalk-tp4757347p4757349.html
> > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at
> Nabble.com.
> >
> >
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 / Roassal2 / Ubuntu

[Nicolai Hess]

2014-04-30 20:03 GMT+02:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :

> I just tried on Mac OS X and that worked fine, you have to make sure that
> you use the latest VM I guess. I believe the required libraries come with
> the VM. But I am an inexperienced user on this area.
>
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 19:53, volk...@nivoba.de wrote:
>
> > Dear all,
> >
> > i just downloaded Pharo 3.0 and installed Roassal2 via Configuration
> Manager (Stable Version).
> > When trying the "Roassal examples" (from Tool-Menu) i got an red screen.
> >
> > Platform Ubuntu 14.04LTS
> > Pharo3.0 Latest update: #30846
> >
> > Need some help :-)
> >
> > BW,
> > Volkert
> >
>
>
>
Same error on windows 7

StrikeFont(Object)>>doesNotUnderstand: #glyphRendererOn:
LogicalFont>>glyphRendererOn:
AthensCairoCanvas>>setFont:
TRLabelShape>>drawOn: in Block: [ ...
BlockClosure>>ensure:
AthensCairoMatrix>>restoreAfter:
TRLabelShape>>drawOn:
TRMorph>>drawOn: in Block: [ :trachelShape | trachelShape drawOn: cs ]
Array(SequenceableCollection)>>do:
TRMorph>>drawOn: in Block: [ :cs | ...
AthensCairoSurface>>drawDuring: in Block: [ ...
BlockClosure>>ensure:
AthensCairoSurface>>drawDuring:
TRMorph>>drawOn:
FormCanvas(Canvas)>>draw:
FormCanvas(Canvas)>>drawMorph:
TRMorph(Morph)>>fullDrawOn: in Block: [ ...
FormCanvas>>roundCornersOf:in:during:
FormCanvas(Canvas)>>roundCornersOf:during:
TRMorph(Morph)>>fullDrawOn: in Block: [ ...
BlockClosure>>on:do:
TRMorph(Morph)>>fullDrawOn:
FormCanvas(Canvas)>>fullDraw:
FormCanvas(Canvas)>>fullDrawMorph:
SystemWindow(Morph)>>drawSubmorphsOn: in Block: [ :m | canvas
fullDrawMorph: m ]
Array(SequenceableCollection)>>reverseDo:
SystemWindow(Morph)>>drawSubmorphsOn: in Block: [ :canvas | submorphs
reverseDo: [ :m | canvas ful...etc...
FormCanvas>>clipBy:during:
SystemWindow(Morph)>>drawSubmorphsOn:
SystemWindow(Morph)>>fullDrawOn: in Block: [ ...
-
P:\Pharo3.0\Pharo-30846.image
Pharo3.0
Latest update: #30846
Unnamed

P:\Pharo3.0\Pharo.exe
NBCoInterpreter NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid:
acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Apr 30 2014
NBCogit NativeBoost-CogPlugin-GuillermoPolito.19 uuid:
acc98e51-2fba-4841-a965-2975997bba66 Apr 30 2014
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-vm.git Commit:
f4003fe7538a6da16466eebf6b57ec3e2143087b Date: 2014-04-30 18:42:09 +0200
By: Damien Pollet <> Jenkins build #14822

(I've the feeling, Roassal(2 and 3D) stuff only works on mac os X.)

[Pharo-dev] Usage of should: in tests

[Nicolas Cellier]

Hi,
I see many usage of #should: in SciSmalltalk tests that could simply be 
turned into #assert: or eventually #assert:equals:
Why wanting to use a block?
Other than #should:raise: and #shouldnt:raise:, I don't really see the 
point of #should: alone anyway...
IMO should: should be deprecated, less is more.
I'm possibly the author of several of these #should: sends, so don't take 
it personnally ;)

P.S. or is it easier to restart the block in the Debugger?
I cross post to pharo-dev because it's a generic question, and there are a 
few #should: sends in Pharo-3.0 too.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Usage of should: in tests

[Nicolas Cellier]

Some not so different opinion:
http://joachimtuchel.wordpress.com/2011/09/15/sunit-and-shouldshouldnt-vs-assertdeny/


2014-05-01 0:52 GMT+02:00 Nicolas Cellier <
nicolas.cellier.aka.n...@gmail.com>:

> Hi,
> I see many usage of #should: in SciSmalltalk tests that could simply be
> turned into #assert: or eventually #assert:equals:
> Why wanting to use a block?
> Other than #should:raise: and #shouldnt:raise:, I don't really see the
> point of #should: alone anyway...
> IMO should: should be deprecated, less is more.
> I'm possibly the author of several of these #should: sends, so don't take
> it personnally ;)
>
> P.S. or is it easier to restart the block in the Debugger?
> I cross post to pharo-dev because it's a generic question, and there are a
> few #should: sends in Pharo-3.0 too.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "SciSmalltalk" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to scismalltalk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

[Clément Bera]

2014-04-30 11:32 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado :

> Hi Clément,
>
> There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the
> bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error.
> Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available
> in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub
> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
>
> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package:
> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d)
> loadDevelopment
>
> For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an
> interesting idea.
>

What do you mean there is no support for fractals ? Can you draw a 3D shape
based on an Array of Point3D ?

Fractals are nice because they impress people on demos and they are fun to
implement, however I don't know if they represent a common use case for
business applications.

Regards
Clement

>
> Greetings,
> Ronie
>
>
> 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
>
> The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D
>> stuff.
>>
>> I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off
>> Rossal with the 3.0 release
>>
>> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera  wrote:
>>
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people
>> (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I
>> cannot show them a compiler).
>> >
>> > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on
>> Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
>> >
>> > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
>> >
>> > 
>> >
>> > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
>> >
>> > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
>> >
>> > Thanks !
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Jimmie Houchin]

Let me reply to this as it is my quote you are quoting.

On 04/30/2014 03:34 PM, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:

I was reading this thread and watching... Sean arguing... that Pharo is NOT
Smalltalk

No As I and Esteban (at least, maybe others) have repeated, *we are
NOT saying that Pharo is not Smalltalk*.


I said that because you joined in with Doru who was stating firmly that 
Pharo is not Smalltalk and gave a link to his post.

http://www.tudorgirba.com/blog/pharo-is-pharo

Where he explicitly states,
""" Pharo is not Smalltalk. Pharo is Smalltalk-inspired. """

Which makes Pharo is Smalltalk and Pharo is Smalltalk-inspired as 
opposing each other.

Doru is explicit and insistent on this point.
So by association, you engaged after his message in the Pharo is 
Smalltalk Inspired argument.


That is how I arrived at associating you with the claim that Pharo is 
not Smalltalk.

Right or wrong that is how I included you in that aspect of the discussion.


Either we're not explaining ourselves well or (more likely IMHO) everyone is
so emotional over this (and it's a good thing that we care that much) that
they're not actually reading what we're saying.

How can you read either
http://forum.world.st/Pharo-is-Smalltalk-and-Not-td4757342.html or my two
main points at
http://forum.world.st/a-Pharo-talk-from-a-ruby-conference-tp4756805p4756995.html
and say that I'm saying that?!

I think there is a middle ground where everyone gets what they want. I've
tried to express it in the first link above. Please - I love differences and
discussion, but if you're going to react, react /specifically/ to what I
said (e.g. the two points I made in the second link), because right now, you
are only arguing with yourself ;)


Now in your above discussion.

You state that Smalltalk = Smalltalk-80 to 99.9% of the developers out 
there.


I don't agree. I would be brazen enough to state that a very high 
percent of developers out there know almost nothing about Smalltalk. I 
would wager a high percent weren't even born when Smalltalk-80 came out. 
You might be one for all I know. I would also wager that most developers 
don't know there is a Smalltalk-80. I imagine that there is more 
ignorance than knowledge about Smalltalk.


Those who have heard of Smalltalk have probably heard of Smalltalk from 
someone who doesn't use Smalltalk for whatever reason. And there are 
many reasons, and many are valid. So what they hear is reasons not to 
use Smalltalk or why people in their community who have a cursory 
Smalltalk experience state as their reasons for not using Smalltalk.


I just don't happen to believe that we should allow people who don't use 
Smalltalk to define it. They can express their opinion, and we should 
listen. That which is valid learn, that which is not nicely engage in 
education and communication. They may still choose not to use Pharo or 
Smalltalk, but hopefully they won't engage in disinformation.


In Pharo's four years since 1.0 Pharo has changed much. So Pharo has to 
deal with its own baggage. There are many who used Pharo 1 or 2. They 
encountered whatever challenges inherent in those versions and left 
disappointed. We will have to rebuild Pharo's image to those people. We 
will have to answer for Pharo's history. Unless we are to say, we are 
targeting our marketing to only those people who have never used any 
dialect of Smalltalk. But this Smalltalk-Inspired vs. Smalltalk is a 
very leaky marketing plan. As soon as anybody not in on the game 
declares, Pharo is a Smalltalk, the game is over. We then have to have 
an answer for why we are a modern Smalltalk and how we answer our past 
failures.


However, there are many who have a modest understanding of Smalltalk.

For example, why does Noel Rappin teach that You Should Learn Smalltalk, 
but does not teach that You Should Use Smalltalk? What are his reasons 
for not using Pharo?


For the people who get Smalltalk, Pharo, why do they not use it? Those 
are answers we need so that we can make valuable decisions on providing 
a story that is attractive to both those who have used Pharo/Smalltalk 
and those who have not.


We need to increase the value proposition so that we can increase people 
who say, "In order to provide bread, I program in X, but in my spare 
time projects I use Pharo". As that group increases I believe we will 
see an increase in business use of Pharo. And people will then be able 
to make a living programming in Pharo.


Plays well with others is still a big issue. It is the one I struggle 
with. Interfacing a C library and its issues. I love Pharo/Smalltalk and 
I struggle sometimes with whether or not I will get to use it. Because 
my C is lacking. I wrote the NativeBoost wrapper around the library. But 
it crashes. But the intersection of those who have knowledge in this 
area is small. And those who have time to deal with other peoples issues 
is even fewer. So I am spending my time studying C hoping that at some 
point the in

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 / Roassal2 / Ubuntu

[Alexandre Bergel]

Hi Volkert,

You need to install the true type font. Unfortunately, Pharo3 does not do it 
for you. I guess this will be fixed in the next release of Pharo.

I have made a very short video on how to install Roassal2 from scratch:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31543901/TMP/InstallingTrueTypeFont.mov

Let us know how it goes. 

Alexandre


On Apr 30, 2014, at 2:53 PM, volk...@nivoba.de wrote:

> Dear all,
> 
> i just downloaded Pharo 3.0 and installed Roassal2 via Configuration Manager 
> (Stable Version).
> When trying the "Roassal examples" (from Tool-Menu) i got an red screen.
> 
> Platform Ubuntu 14.04LTS
> Pharo3.0 Latest update: #30846
> 
> Need some help :-)
> 
> BW,
> Volkert
> 

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

[Ronie Salgado]

You don't draw a shape with an array of points, unless you are using a
voxel engine or a volumetric renderer. In 3D graphics you usually are
drawing surfaces composed of triangles. There's R3MeshBuilder and
R3MeshShape for drawing generic meshes. I believe there examples are a bit
hidden. For each vertex in a triangle you have specify:
- Position
- Surface normal value at position
- Color
- Texture coordinates. Used if the material has a texture.

In 3D, the problem of fractals is what kind of fractal you want make. A
rough classification is like this:
- 2D textures
- Solid textures
- Displacement maps. This is used for terrain heights.
- Hyper-textures

For images of them, this talk of Ken Perlin
http://www.noisemachine.com/talk1/  is really good.
The first three ones are easy to make, but to do them efficiently and
animated in real-time you need offload the computation to the GPU by using
shaders or OpenCL.

A hyper texture defines a density function for each point in the space.
This requires a volumetric renderer. which is really hard to make in
OpenGL. But you get volumetric smoke, clouds and very cool things.

I actually have to make a demo with fractal/multifractal terrains, for a
course about computational geometry I am taking, and I choose to use Pharo.
But I want to use OpenCL for the computation because I can make things more
flexible easily but in the expense of complicating the synchronization. I
am starting this personal project to start making a 3D game engine in Pharo
and also for as an opportunity to take all the low-level graphics out of
Roassal 3D.

When I have something to show, I will be posting it.

Regards
Ronie

2014-04-30 19:43 GMT-04:00 Clément Bera :

>
>
> 2014-04-30 11:32 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado :
>
> Hi Clément,
>>
>> There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the
>> bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error.
>> Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available
>> in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub
>> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
>>
>> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package:
>> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d)
>> loadDevelopment
>>
>> For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an
>> interesting idea.
>>
>
> What do you mean there is no support for fractals ? Can you draw a 3D
> shape based on an Array of Point3D ?
>
> Fractals are nice because they impress people on demos and they are fun to
> implement, however I don't know if they represent a common use case for
> business applications.
>
> Regards
> Clement
>
>>
>> Greetings,
>> Ronie
>>
>>
>> 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
>>
>> The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off
>>> Rossal with the 3.0 release
>>>
>>> On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera  wrote:
>>>
>>> > Hello,
>>> >
>>> > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people
>>> (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I
>>> cannot show them a compiler).
>>> >
>>> > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on
>>> Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
>>> >
>>> > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
>>> >
>>> > 
>>> >
>>> > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
>>> >
>>> > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
>>> >
>>> > Thanks !
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

[Alexandre Bergel]

Yes Ronie, we need a stable version :-)
It is important to always expose what we have, else it get forgotten too 
easily...

Alexandre


On Apr 30, 2014, at 6:48 PM, Ronie Salgado  wrote:

> Hi Sven,
> 
> About the configuration browser, I don't know why Roassal 3D it is there, 
> because currently is highly unstable and it is going to keep being for a 
> while. We are still missing lot of features and we need to fix lot of bugs.
> As for the black boxes, that is a shader issue which I could reproduce in my 
> machine using an Intel graphics card but I haven't have time to track where 
> it is.
> 
> As for something like the Roassal examples, that is definitely something that 
> we need.
> 
> If there is too much urgency on using Roassal 3D, please, let me know so I 
> can focus on getting a stable release soon.
> 
> Greetings,
> Ronie
> 
> 
> 2014-04-30 15:25 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
> Ronnie,
> 
> The point of the Configuration Browser is to load #stable configurations, if 
> those do not exist or cannot be produced, than the configuration should no be 
> there I think. The goal of the Configuration Browser is to make it super easy 
> for users to load something with just one click.
> 
> I tried your Gofer script but I am not 100% sure everything really works. If 
> I try some of the R3Examples, I see mostly black boxes.
> 
> Is there not something like the Rossal Examples for 3D ? Because that one is 
> cool and easy for a beginner like me ;-)
> 
> But don't get me wrong, I like what you guys are doing !
> 
> Sven
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 20:32, Ronie Salgado  wrote:
> 
> > Hi Clément,
> >
> > There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the 
> > bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error. 
> > Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available 
> > in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub 
> > http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
> >
> > Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package: 
> > 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d) 
> > loadDevelopment
> >
> > For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an 
> > interesting idea.
> >
> > Greetings,
> > Ronie
> >
> >
> > 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
> > The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D 
> > stuff.
> >
> > I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off 
> > Rossal with the 3.0 release
> >
> > On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera  wrote:
> >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people (because 
> > > you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I cannot 
> > > show them a compiler).
> > >
> > > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on 
> > > Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
> > >
> > > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always got:
> > >
> > > 
> > >
> > > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
> > >
> > > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
> > >
> > > Thanks !
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

[Pharo-dev] Unix interop (was: a Pharo talk from a ruby conference)

[David T. Lewis]

On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 07:15:30AM -0700, Sean P. DeNigris wrote:
> 
> Same goes with Unix interop. REPL is easy, but is it documented and
> marketed? What would it take to easily pipe output of other programs to
> Pharo? Maybe be able to sourceCodeString exportAsUnixCommand:
> '/usr/bin/my_cool_command'

That's what CommandShell/OSProcess is for. For example:

  sourceCodeString := 'ls -l | cat | cat | cat'.
  (ProxyPipeline command: sourceCodeString) upToEndOfFile

Dave

Re: [Pharo-dev] how can I have a working roassal 3d ?

[Clément Bera]

OK, I didn't know it was that complex, I've always used 2D or 3D isometric
until now.

So I can't do it it would take me too much time :-(

I can't wait to see your fractal terrain demo. Keep us in touch.


2014-04-30 18:37 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado :

> You don't draw a shape with an array of points, unless you are using a
> voxel engine or a volumetric renderer. In 3D graphics you usually are
> drawing surfaces composed of triangles. There's R3MeshBuilder and
> R3MeshShape for drawing generic meshes. I believe there examples are a bit
> hidden. For each vertex in a triangle you have specify:
> - Position
> - Surface normal value at position
> - Color
> - Texture coordinates. Used if the material has a texture.
>
> In 3D, the problem of fractals is what kind of fractal you want make. A
> rough classification is like this:
> - 2D textures
> - Solid textures
> - Displacement maps. This is used for terrain heights.
> - Hyper-textures
>
> For images of them, this talk of Ken Perlin
> http://www.noisemachine.com/talk1/  is really good.
> The first three ones are easy to make, but to do them efficiently and
> animated in real-time you need offload the computation to the GPU by using
> shaders or OpenCL.
>
> A hyper texture defines a density function for each point in the space.
> This requires a volumetric renderer. which is really hard to make in
> OpenGL. But you get volumetric smoke, clouds and very cool things.
>
> I actually have to make a demo with fractal/multifractal terrains, for a
> course about computational geometry I am taking, and I choose to use Pharo.
> But I want to use OpenCL for the computation because I can make things more
> flexible easily but in the expense of complicating the synchronization. I
> am starting this personal project to start making a 3D game engine in Pharo
> and also for as an opportunity to take all the low-level graphics out of
> Roassal 3D.
>
> When I have something to show, I will be posting it.
>
> Regards
> Ronie
>
> 2014-04-30 19:43 GMT-04:00 Clément Bera :
>
>
>>
>> 2014-04-30 11:32 GMT-07:00 Ronie Salgado :
>>
>> Hi Clément,
>>>
>>> There is not a stable version available, in fact Roassal3D requires the
>>> bleeding edge version of NBOpenGL to work, which is producing your error.
>>> Try loading Roassal3D using the following Gofer script, which is available
>>> in the Roassal3D smalltalk hub
>>> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~ronsaldo/roassal3d :
>>>
>>> Gofer new smalltalkhubUser: 'ronsaldo' project: 'roassal3d'; package:
>>> 'ConfigurationOfRoassal3d'; load. (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfRoassal3d)
>>> loadDevelopment
>>>
>>> For 3D fractals, I haven't added support for them. That sounds like an
>>> interesting idea.
>>>
>>
>> What do you mean there is no support for fractals ? Can you draw a 3D
>> shape based on an Array of Point3D ?
>>
>> Fractals are nice because they impress people on demos and they are fun
>> to implement, however I don't know if they represent a common use case for
>> business applications.
>>
>> Regards
>> Clement
>>
>>>
>>> Greetings,
>>> Ronie
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-04-30 14:09 GMT-04:00 Sven Van Caekenberghe :
>>>
>>> The 2D stuff works for me, but there seems to be a problem with the 3D
 stuff.

 I hope the Rossal developers can fix this soon, since we're showing off
 Rossal with the 3.0 release

 On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:53, Clément Bera  wrote:

 > Hello,
 >
 > I wanted to show some 3D visualization with Pharo to some people
 (because you know, non IT people are only impressed by robots and 3d, so I
 cannot show them a compiler).
 >
 > On the Pharo 3 release, in the configuration browser, I clicked on
 Roassal3d then 'Install stable version'.
 >
 > Then I was not able to run a single example of R3Example, I always
 got:
 >
 > 
 >
 > How can I have an image with Roassal3D working ?
 >
 > I would like to try to draw a 3D fractal too (I love fractals).
 >
 > Thanks !



>>>
>>
>

[Pharo-dev] Pharo 3 and Sound

[jannik laval]

I remember that the VM+ plugin were fixed.
But these changes seems not present in Pharo3-win (installer zip).

After loading PharoSound from ConfigurationBrowser, I execute this line:

SoundPlayer boinkScale

On MacOS it works, not on Windows

Cheers

-- 

~~Jannik Laval~~
École des Mines de Douai
Enseignant-chercheur
http://www.jannik-laval.eu
http://www.phratch.com
http://car.mines-douai.fr/

[Pharo-dev] Pharo on RPi

[Goubier Thierry]

Hi all,

I'd like to know what is the status of Pharo on the RPi? It would be to 
use it with serial port communications and seaside development.


Thanks,

Thierry
--
Thierry Goubier
CEA list
Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
France
Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

[Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals

[Torsten Bergmann]

SuffixConditionals adds #if: and #unless methods to BlockClosure. Currently in 
VisualWorks but can be ported to other Smalltalks (like Pharo) as well.

Read here:
http://forum.world.st/ANN-SuffixConditionals-td4755785.html

Code is on Cincom Public Repo and snaphots on 
https://github.com/randycoulman/SuffixConditionals

[Pharo-dev] [Fuel] Serialize and materialize to GZip

[roberto.mine...@usi.ch]

Hi,

Following the Fuel test FLUserGuidesTest>>#testGZip I discovered that I can 
serialize and materialize to and from GZip archives. Cool!

I tried with some small test object and it worked like a charm. When I tried 
with a large object…

Serialization
- It does not work, the image instantly crashes

Materialization
- Since I was not able to serialize the large object on GZip, I serialized 
"normally" than compressed the resulting fuel file using GZipWriteStream 
class>>#compressFile:
- When I materialize from the GZip archive, it takes forever and does not 
succeed after more than 1 minute. Note that the same non-Gzipped file takes a 
couple of seconds to be materialized.

How can I handle this?

Thanks in advance,
Roby

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo on RPi

[jannik laval]

I have a Phratch that begin to work on RPi (
https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi/
).
So, you can probably use Pharo 3

Now I have problems with FileSystem, I will ask in another thread.

Jannik


2014-04-30 11:01 GMT+02:00 Goubier Thierry :

> Hi all,
>
> I'd like to know what is the status of Pharo on the RPi? It would be to
> use it with serial port communications and seaside development.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Thierry
> --
> Thierry Goubier
> CEA list
> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
> France
> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95
>
>


-- 

~~Jannik Laval~~
École des Mines de Douai
Enseignant-chercheur
http://www.jannik-laval.eu
http://www.phratch.com
http://car.mines-douai.fr/

[Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

[jannik laval]

Hi all,

I have an error on Pharo 3, with RPi.
The error is UnixResolver>>Can't find the request origin

To reproduce it, just run this line:
---
FileLocator home exists


Thank you for your help.
-- 

~~Jannik Laval~~
École des Mines de Douai
Enseignant-chercheur
http://www.jannik-laval.eu
http://www.phratch.com
http://car.mines-douai.fr/

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo on RPi

[Goubier Thierry]

Le 30/04/2014 11:58, jannik laval a écrit :

I have a Phratch that begin to work on RPi
(https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi/).
So, you can probably use Pharo 3


Thanks.

I'll start moving the infrastructure there then.

Thierry


Now I have problems with FileSystem, I will ask in another thread.



Jannik

--

~~Jannik Laval~~
École des Mines de Douai
Enseignant-chercheur
http://www.jannik-laval.eu
http://www.phratch.com
http://car.mines-douai.fr/



--
Thierry Goubier
CEA list
Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
France
Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo on RPi

[Jean Baptiste Arnaud]

The status of Rpi.
The VM work as a StackVM linux one, 
Except for:
- Sound (recent bug will be fixed soon), 
- NativeBoost (arm), 
- FFI (recent change from Doug will be here soon)  
and OsProcess (I just don not try it yet but I didn't look at it). 


I think the VM is stable enough to be used. 
I will move the infrastructure to the file server today, the last raspberry pi 
VM should work.
It will be fixed during the day.



On 30 Apr 2014, at 12:31, Goubier Thierry  wrote:

> 
> 
> Le 30/04/2014 11:58, jannik laval a écrit :
>> I have a Phratch that begin to work on RPi
>> (https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi/).
>> So, you can probably use Pharo 3
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> I'll start moving the infrastructure there then.
> 
> Thierry
> 
>> Now I have problems with FileSystem, I will ask in another thread.
> 
>> Jannik
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> ~~Jannik Laval~~
>> École des Mines de Douai
>> Enseignant-chercheur
>> http://www.jannik-laval.eu
>> http://www.phratch.com
>> http://car.mines-douai.fr/
>> 
> 
> -- 
> Thierry Goubier
> CEA list
> Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
> 91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
> France
> Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95
> 



Best Regards
Jean Baptiste Arnaud
jbaptiste.arn...@gmail.com

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

[Jean Baptiste Arnaud]

This bug turn around since the first release of Rpi VM, 
It can be solve completely in the image side by just patching it. Until we have 
a better solution.

We used in the 3.0 image NativeBoost to get all the env variable.
So when you ask origin it try NativeBoost, that do not work. And UnixResolver 
raises this exception.

There are no NativeBoost on Rpi, FFI or OSProcess.
Basically the fileSystem work, but some data are fetch via env variable and 
then NativeBoost.
The solution is to bypass all the request of env variable. 
You should use another way until, we finish to integrate a way to request 
correctly the env variable (NB on arm).

I will studies the possibility to reintegrate fast the OSProcess plugin to 
offer "better" solution.
But here we will have a special case for the UnixResolver isNBWorkingOnThisVM.
That will be remove when the asmjit arm will be finish.

On 30 Apr 2014, at 12:01, jannik laval  wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have an error on Pharo 3, with RPi.
> The error is UnixResolver>>Can't find the request origin
> 
> To reproduce it, just run this line:
> ---
> FileLocator home exists
> 
> 
> Thank you for your help.
> -- 
> ~~Jannik Laval~~
> École des Mines de Douai
> Enseignant-chercheur
> http://www.jannik-laval.eu
> http://www.phratch.com
> http://car.mines-douai.fr/
> 

Best Regards
Jean Baptiste Arnaud
jbaptiste.arn...@gmail.com

[Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core]

[GitHub]

  Branch: refs/tags/30846
  Home:   https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core

[Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core] 716f48: 30846

[GitHub]

  Branch: refs/heads/3.0
  Home:   https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core
  Commit: 716f48dcd77dce7178bf76b381e5a75e192c8aec
  
https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core/commit/716f48dcd77dce7178bf76b381e5a75e192c8aec
  Author: Jenkins Build Server 
  Date:   2014-04-30 (Wed, 30 Apr 2014)

  Changed paths:
M Athens-Cairo.package/AthensCairoSurface.class/README.md
M Athens-Cairo.package/AthensCairoSurface.class/class/instance 
creation/extent_format_.st
M Athens-Cairo.package/AthensCairoSurface.class/class/instance 
creation/width_height_.st
M Athens-Cairo.package/AthensCairoSurface.class/instance/accessing/height.st
A 
Athens-Cairo.package/AthensCairoSurface.class/instance/private/privateHeight.st
A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - 
scripts/script108.st
A ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/pharo - 
updates/update30846.st
M 
ScriptLoader30.package/ScriptLoader.class/instance/public/commentForCurrentUpdate.st

  Log Message:
  ---
  30846
13236 Fix 1 extra height for Cairo surface
https://pharo.fogbugz.com/f/cases/13236

http://files.pharo.org/image/30/30846.zip

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo on RPi

[Goubier Thierry]

Thanks JB! This is really great!

Thierry

Le 30/04/2014 13:18, Jean Baptiste Arnaud a écrit :

The status of Rpi.
The VM work as a StackVM linux one,
Except for:
- Sound (recent bug will be fixed soon),
- NativeBoost (arm),
- FFI (recent change from Doug will be here soon)
and OsProcess (I just don not try it yet but I didn't look at it).


I think the VM is stable enough to be used.
I will move the infrastructure to the file server today, the last
raspberry pi VM should work.
It will be fixed during the day.



On 30 Apr 2014, at 12:31, Goubier Thierry mailto:thierry.goub...@cea.fr>> wrote:




Le 30/04/2014 11:58, jannik laval a écrit :

I have a Phratch that begin to work on RPi
(https://ci.inria.fr/pharo-contribution/view/Phratch/job/Phratch-OneClick-RPi/).
So, you can probably use Pharo 3


Thanks.

I'll start moving the infrastructure there then.

Thierry


Now I have problems with FileSystem, I will ask in another thread.



Jannik

--

~~Jannik Laval~~
École des Mines de Douai
Enseignant-chercheur
http://www.jannik-laval.eu
http://www.phratch.com
http://car.mines-douai.fr/



--
Thierry Goubier
CEA list
Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
France
Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95





Best Regards
Jean Baptiste Arnaud
jbaptiste.arn...@gmail.com 









--
Thierry Goubier
CEA list
Laboratoire des Fondations des Systèmes Temps Réel Embarqués
91191 Gif sur Yvette Cedex
France
Phone/Fax: +33 (0) 1 69 08 32 92 / 83 95

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pen back in the image

[Sean P. DeNigris]

philippeback wrote
> I'd like to see the Pen class coming back in the main image.

Answered at
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/22737674/wheres-the-pen-class-in-pharo

Gofer it
squeaksource: 'PharoNonCorePackages';
package: 'BitBltPen';
load.
Then you can "Display restoreAfter: [Pen example]"

HTH



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/Pen-back-in-the-image-tp4751190p4757210.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Torsten Bergmann wrote
> SuffixConditionals adds #if: and #unless methods to BlockClosure.
> Currently in VisualWorks but can be ported to other Smalltalks (like
> Pharo) as well.

Good idea! It is MIT and would be a great bridge for a Ruby community in the
spirit of
http://forum.world.st/a-Pharo-talk-from-a-ruby-conference-tp4756805p4757055.html
:
FAQ
Q: ifTrue: and ifFalse: look weird to me. Why can't I have more readable
control flow statements like Ruby?
A: You can! Simply load SuffixConditionals from the Configuration Browser
and you can write things like:
[process stop] if: process isRunning
and
[process start] unless: process isRunning

Also would be a great answer when this inevitably comes up in the endless
"why isn't Smalltalk as popular as Ruby" conversations
(http://stackoverflow.com/a/438986/424245)



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/SuffixConditionals-tp4757183p4757212.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Fuel] Serialize and materialize to GZip

[Mariano Martinez Peck]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 6:33 AM, roberto.mine...@usi.ch <
roberto.mine...@usi.ch> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Following the Fuel test FLUserGuidesTest>>#testGZip I discovered that I
> can serialize and materialize to and from GZip archives. Cool!
>
> I tried with some small test object and it worked like a charm. When I
> tried with a large object…
>
>
Yes, I have the exact same problem long ago. As far as I could debug at
that point in time, it was a bug in the compression plugin in the VM.
So there isn't anything easy you can do about.  See
http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/pipermail/pharo-project/2011-December/056419.html
for more details.


> Serialization
> - It does not work, the image instantly crashes
>
> Materialization
> - Since I was not able to serialize the large object on GZip, I serialized
> "normally" than compressed the resulting fuel file using GZipWriteStream
> class>>#compressFile:
> - When I materialize from the GZip archive, it takes forever and does not
> succeed after more than 1 minute. Note that the same non-Gzipped file takes
> a couple of seconds to be materialized.
>
>
If you serialized normally and the compressed, then to materialize you need
to first uncompress and then give fuel the decompressed version.

BTW...what I did for Fuel and compressing is a Pharo binding to a really
fast compressor/uncompressor: LZ4.

http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~marianopeck/LZ4

That is very fast, but it doesn't provide a streaming API. So the usage I
did was:

- Fuel serialize in memory to a bytearray
- LZ4 compress that bytearray and write compressed to file or whatever you
want
- LZ4 uncompress from file or from where you stored the compressed version.
- Fuel materialize from the compressed stream from previous step

this will work even for very large graphs.

There is also an experiment Max and I were doing about compressing strings
right inside Fuel:

https://code.google.com/p/fuel/issues/detail?id=160

But this is committed in the experiments repo. If you want to take a look...

Best,

-- 
Mariano
http://marianopeck.wordpress.com

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core]

[Marcus Denker]

On 29 Apr 2014, at 16:13, Eliot Miranda  wrote:

> Hi Marcus,
> 
> 
> On Apr 29, 2014, at 6:31 AM, Marcus Denker  wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On 29 Apr 2014, at 15:29, Eliot Miranda  wrote:
>> 
>>> Without any information on what has been changed these GitHub messages are 
>>> almost pure noise.  It's more than tedious to expect someone to follow the 
>>> link to get more info.  Can the system not include at least the commit 
>>> comment?
>> 
>> There are two mails:
>> 
>> 1) useless
>> 2) it has *everything*
>> -> changed methods and classes
>> -> commit comments
>> -> Link to get the diffs very nicely formatted.
>> 
>> Sadly we did not find a way to turn of this one useless mail. There is sadly 
>> no option.
> 
> So who develops github?  
Github inc. 
they have now >10 million repositories. got 100mill funding in 2012… 

> Are they willing to provide a third option?
Unlikely, considering the scale of the operation.

> Another potential solution would be to direct the full commit to a server 
> that filters/edits down the full messages and resends.
> 
Yes, I was thinking about that… but who has the time?

> Personally I'd like to keep up with the GitHub commits through email but 
> right now I just delete them.  I could filter them out but that's no better.  
> :-(
> 
>> 
>>> Eliot (phone)
>>> 
>>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 4:12 AM, GitHub  wrote:
>>> 
 Branch: refs/tags/30843
 Home:   https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Esteban A. Maringolo]

I did a simple test, googled for "smalltalk jobs", and the fourth
result was a link to this page:
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhyIsSmalltalkDead, which contains historical
info and some rants about the ups and downs of Smalltalk use.

But had a link to a Paul Graham's essay I read many years ago, which
is still valuable, and helps getting a better insight:
http://paulgraham.com/popular.html


Best regards!

--
Esteban.

ps: I did a search for "pharo jobs" and only found a reference to
Netstyle's search :)




Esteban A. Maringolo


2014-04-29 14:14 GMT-03:00 Sebastian Sastre :
>
> On Apr 29, 2014, at 2:08 PM, Ben Coman  wrote:
>
> Why do some people prefer rock music and others classical music?   Its about
> the patterns they know.  Our brains naturally try to cram each experience
> into a pattern it already knows.  I remember when I used to dislike Jazz
> music - I couldn't "understand it".  Then I started to listen to Jamiroquai
> a lot - a funky Jazz/Techno hybrid.   Then later I found that I had learned
> to like Jazz - I could now "understand it" and know its patterns - but I
> needed a stepping stone to get there.  It might be that some starts using
> Pharo with their favourite text editor as a comfort factor, as a stepping
> stone, and then migrates over time to the standard editors.  So that is a
> path to draw in new users - but of course that takes effort to set up.
> cheers -ben
>
>
> This is interesting, you’re talking of acquired taste here.
>
> Things that needs time and context and repetition to sink in.
>
> What’s also interesting is Jamiroquai, because he’s work was your bridge to
> Jazz.
>
> He did the inception.
>
> Now the question is this:
>
> Who in the industry is functioning as our Jamiroquai?
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals

[Torsten Bergmann]

As it is MIT I ported it to Pharo:

Code is available on
http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~TorstenBergmann/SuffixConditionals

One can load it from the config browser

Bye
T.

> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. April 2014 um 14:29 Uhr
> Von: "Sean P. DeNigris" 
> An: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals
>
> Torsten Bergmann wrote
> > SuffixConditionals adds #if: and #unless methods to BlockClosure.
> > Currently in VisualWorks but can be ported to other Smalltalks (like
> > Pharo) as well.
> 
> Good idea! It is MIT and would be a great bridge for a Ruby community in the
> spirit of
> http://forum.world.st/a-Pharo-talk-from-a-ruby-conference-tp4756805p4757055.html
> :
> FAQ
> Q: ifTrue: and ifFalse: look weird to me. Why can't I have more readable
> control flow statements like Ruby?
> A: You can! Simply load SuffixConditionals from the Configuration Browser
> and you can write things like:
> [process stop] if: process isRunning
> and
> [process start] unless: process isRunning
> 
> Also would be a great answer when this inevitably comes up in the endless
> "why isn't Smalltalk as popular as Ruby" conversations
> (http://stackoverflow.com/a/438986/424245)
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://forum.world.st/SuffixConditionals-tp4757183p4757212.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals

[Sean P. DeNigris]

On Apr 30, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Torsten Bergmann [via Smalltalk] 
 wrote:
> As it is MIT I ported it to Pharo: 
Cool! Thanks :) Was it straightforward to port? I haven’t ported anything from 
VW in a while. Xtreams was in my sights - we did a proof of concept with 
filetree and cyprus mapping namespaces to prefixes. Should revisit that...



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/SuffixConditionals-tp4757183p4757233.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals

[Esteban A. Maringolo]

Thanks Torsten.

I've been using my own favorite suffix conditional: #haltIfTrue.

Regards!
Esteban A. Maringolo


2014-04-30 10:57 GMT-03:00 Torsten Bergmann :
> As it is MIT I ported it to Pharo:
>
> Code is available on
> http://smalltalkhub.com/#!/~TorstenBergmann/SuffixConditionals
>
> One can load it from the config browser
>
> Bye
> T.
>
>> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. April 2014 um 14:29 Uhr
>> Von: "Sean P. DeNigris" 
>> An: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
>> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals
>>
>> Torsten Bergmann wrote
>> > SuffixConditionals adds #if: and #unless methods to BlockClosure.
>> > Currently in VisualWorks but can be ported to other Smalltalks (like
>> > Pharo) as well.
>>
>> Good idea! It is MIT and would be a great bridge for a Ruby community in the
>> spirit of
>> http://forum.world.st/a-Pharo-talk-from-a-ruby-conference-tp4756805p4757055.html
>> :
>> FAQ
>> Q: ifTrue: and ifFalse: look weird to me. Why can't I have more readable
>> control flow statements like Ruby?
>> A: You can! Simply load SuffixConditionals from the Configuration Browser
>> and you can write things like:
>> [process stop] if: process isRunning
>> and
>> [process start] unless: process isRunning
>>
>> Also would be a great answer when this inevitably comes up in the endless
>> "why isn't Smalltalk as popular as Ruby" conversations
>> (http://stackoverflow.com/a/438986/424245)
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Cheers,
>> Sean
>> --
>> View this message in context: 
>> http://forum.world.st/SuffixConditionals-tp4757183p4757212.html
>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>
>>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[Esteban Lorenzano]

reddit: 

http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/24d9d2/pharo_30_the_immersive_live_environment_released/


On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:

> Dear World,
> 
> Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
> 
> 
> 
> The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many 
> things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
> - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the 
> system.
> - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports Cairo 
> rendering on all platforms.
> - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building 
> user interfaces.
> - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
> - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully 
> integrated in the system.
> - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector received 
> a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser supports 
> tags, search and lot more improvements.
> - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme has 
> been revamped.
> 
> These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as 
> important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 issues 
> in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of the 
> progress:
> 
> https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
> 
> Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of Pharo 
> (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red bricks 
> represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. 
> 
> 
> 
> Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from Pharo 2 
> to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
> 
> Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of this 
> release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément Bera, 
> Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, Noury 
> Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, Damien 
> Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo Contreras, 
> Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del Sasso, Gisela 
> Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, Martin Dias, Erwan 
> Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo Estefo, Luc Fabresse, 
> Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo Gassman, Lucas Giudice, 
> Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale Henrichs, Pablo Herrero, 
> Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante, Ricardo Jacas, Henrik Sperre 
> Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek, Juraj Kubelka, Laurent Laffont, 
> Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, Diego Lont, Esteban Lorenzano, Stefan 
> Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto Minelli, Hernan Morales Durand, Eliot 
> Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas Papagna Maldonado, Nick Papoylias, Nicolas 
> Passerini, Vanessa Peña, Nicolas Petton, Alain Plantec, Guillermo Polito, 
> Damien Pollet, Jochen Rick, Benjamin Van Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille 
> Teruel, Juan Pablo Sandoval Alcocer, Samir Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor 
> Stasenko, Aliaksei Syrel, Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, 
> Martin Walk, Hernan Wilkinson. 
> And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, 
> participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
> 
> Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a 
> step. Expect more. Much more.
> 
> Enjoy!
> The Pharo Team

Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals

[Torsten Bergmann]

It was a "no-brainer", I did'nt even load the code into VisualWorks
(which I do not have installed these days as I have no up to date copy/version).

I just checked https://github.com/randycoulman/SuffixConditionals, the *.pst
files are XML files and are therefore readable. 3 extension methods 
if:, unless:, and if:else: methods to BlockClosure
plus a few tests.

Feel free to do the same with Xtreams ;)

Bye
T. 
 

Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. April 2014 um 16:07 Uhr
Von: "Sean P. DeNigris" 
An: pharo-dev@lists.pharo.org
Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals
On Apr 30, 2014, at 9:59 AM, Torsten Bergmann [via Smalltalk] <[hidden email]> 
wrote:
> As it is MIT I ported it to Pharo:
Cool! Thanks :) Was it straightforward to port? I haven’t ported anything from 
VW in a while. Xtreams was in my sights - we did a proof of concept with 
filetree and cyprus mapping namespaces to prefixes. Should revisit that...
Cheers,
Sean 

View this message in context: Re: 
SuffixConditionals[http://forum.world.st/SuffixConditionals-tp4757183p4757233.html]
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list 
archive[http://forum.world.st/Pharo-Smalltalk-Developers-f1294837.html] at 
Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[Esteban Lorenzano]

and is also at ycombinator

thumbs up!

Esteban


On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:14, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:

> reddit: 
> 
> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/24d9d2/pharo_30_the_immersive_live_environment_released/
> 
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
>> Dear World,
>> 
>> Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many 
>> things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
>> - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the 
>> system.
>> - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports Cairo 
>> rendering on all platforms.
>> - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building 
>> user interfaces.
>> - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
>> - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully 
>> integrated in the system.
>> - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector received 
>> a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser supports 
>> tags, search and lot more improvements.
>> - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme has 
>> been revamped.
>> 
>> These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as 
>> important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 issues 
>> in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of the 
>> progress:
>> 
>> https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
>> 
>> Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of 
>> Pharo (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red 
>> bricks represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from Pharo 
>> 2 to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
>> 
>> Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of this 
>> release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément Bera, 
>> Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, Noury 
>> Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, Damien 
>> Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo Contreras, 
>> Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del Sasso, Gisela 
>> Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, Martin Dias, 
>> Erwan Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo Estefo, Luc 
>> Fabresse, Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo Gassman, 
>> Lucas Giudice, Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale Henrichs, 
>> Pablo Herrero, Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante, Ricardo Jacas, 
>> Henrik Sperre Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek, Juraj Kubelka, 
>> Laurent Laffont, Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, Diego Lont, Esteban 
>> Lorenzano, Stefan Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto Minelli, Hernan 
>> Morales Durand, Eliot Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas Papagna Maldonado, 
>> Nick Papoylias, Nicolas Passerini, Vanessa Peña, Nicolas Petton, Alain 
>> Plantec, Guillermo Polito, Damien Pollet, Jochen Rick, Benjamin Van 
>> Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille Teruel, Juan Pablo Sandoval Alcocer, Samir 
>> Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor Stasenko, Aliaksei Syrel, Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy 
>> Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, Martin Walk, Hernan Wilkinson. 
>> And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, 
>> participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
>> 
>> Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a 
>> step. Expect more. Much more.
>> 
>> Enjoy!
>> The Pharo Team
> 

[Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Marcus Denker]

Hi,

The new website is online!

http://pharo.org

For now, pharo-project.org still is the old website. 
Next: pharo-project.org should forward to pharo.org,
it will still be available as old.pharo-project.org for some time.

Thanks a lot to 
Nico http://nicolas-petton.fr, 
Esteban http://smallworks.eu, 
Damien  http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
and Aurelia http://aurelia.saout.fr


Marcus

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7673462

On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:24, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:

> and is also at ycombinator
> 
> thumbs up!
> 
> Esteban
> 
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:14, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
>> reddit: 
>> 
>> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/24d9d2/pharo_30_the_immersive_live_environment_released/
>> 
>> 
>> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear World,
>>> 
>>> Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many 
>>> things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
>>> - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the 
>>> system.
>>> - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports Cairo 
>>> rendering on all platforms.
>>> - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building 
>>> user interfaces.
>>> - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
>>> - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully 
>>> integrated in the system.
>>> - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector 
>>> received a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser 
>>> supports tags, search and lot more improvements.
>>> - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme has 
>>> been revamped.
>>> 
>>> These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as 
>>> important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 issues 
>>> in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of the 
>>> progress:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
>>> 
>>> Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of 
>>> Pharo (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red 
>>> bricks represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from Pharo 
>>> 2 to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
>>> 
>>> Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of this 
>>> release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément Bera, 
>>> Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, Noury 
>>> Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, Damien 
>>> Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo 
>>> Contreras, Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del 
>>> Sasso, Gisela Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, 
>>> Martin Dias, Erwan Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo 
>>> Estefo, Luc Fabresse, Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo 
>>> Gassman, Lucas Giudice, Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale 
>>> Henrichs, Pablo Herrero, Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante, 
>>> Ricardo Jacas, Henrik Sperre Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek, 
>>> Juraj Kubelka, Laurent Laffont, Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, Diego 
>>> Lont, Esteban Lorenzano, Stefan Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto 
>>> Minelli, Hernan Morales Durand, Eliot Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas 
>>> Papagna Maldonado, Nick Papoylias, Nicolas Passerini, Vanessa Peña, Nicolas 
>>> Petton, Alain Plantec, Guillermo Polito, Damien Pollet, Jochen Rick, 
>>> Benjamin Van Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille Teruel, Juan Pablo Sandoval 
>>> Alcocer, Samir Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor Stasenko, Aliaksei Syrel, 
>>> Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, Martin Walk, Hernan 
>>> Wilkinson. 
>>> And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, 
>>> participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
>>> 
>>> Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a 
>>> step. Expect more. Much more.
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!
>>> The Pharo Team
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core]

[Eliot Miranda]

Hi Marcus,

On Apr 30, 2014, at 6:42 AM, Marcus Denker  wrote:

> 
> On 29 Apr 2014, at 16:13, Eliot Miranda  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Marcus,
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 29, 2014, at 6:31 AM, Marcus Denker  wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On 29 Apr 2014, at 15:29, Eliot Miranda  wrote:
>>> 
 Without any information on what has been changed these GitHub messages are 
 almost pure noise.  It's more than tedious to expect someone to follow the 
 link to get more info.  Can the system not include at least the commit 
 comment?
>>> 
>>> There are two mails:
>>> 
>>> 1) useless
>>> 2) it has *everything*
>>> -> changed methods and classes
>>> -> commit comments
>>> -> Link to get the diffs very nicely formatted.
>>> 
>>> Sadly we did not find a way to turn of this one useless mail. There is 
>>> sadly no option.
>> 
>> So who develops github?  
> Github inc. 
> they have now >10 million repositories. got 100mill funding in 2012… 
> 
>> Are they willing to provide a third option?
> Unlikely, considering the scale of the operation.

Surely that's completely backwards.  If they have 100mil (lira?) per year to 
spend they have the resources to improve their product.  Do they have a 
feedback channel through which you could ask?  Why don't you ask them?

> 
>> Another potential solution would be to direct the full commit to a server 
>> that filters/edits down the full messages and resends.
> Yes, I was thinking about that… but who has the time?

Right. We should just wallow in depression.  Killing myself takes too much 
effort.

> 
>> Personally I'd like to keep up with the GitHub commits through email but 
>> right now I just delete them.  I could filter them out but that's no better. 
>>  :-(
>> 
>>> 
 Eliot (phone)
 
 On Apr 29, 2014, at 4:12 AM, GitHub  wrote:
 
> Branch: refs/tags/30843
> Home:   https://github.com/pharo-project/pharo-core
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] [ANN]: Little NeoJSON Helper

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Okay, here is version 0.1 - the most basic useful functionality to aid in
writing mappings.

"Assuming Neo-JSON-Core is loaded"
Gofer it
smalltalkhubUser: 'SeanDeNigris' project: 'SeansPlayground';
package: 'Neo-JSON-Utilities';
load.

Now if you:
reader := NeoJSONReader on: entity contents readStream.
reader nextAs: MyClass "(that does not implement MyClass
class>>#neoJsonMapping:)".

You will get a debugger (which you probably want to close because the new
mappings we create will not be activated as the helper hook is cached in the
mappings) and a tree inspector on a NeoJSON model that you can customize,
where:
- a NeoJSONObject represents each JSON dictionary; for the enclosing object,
the schema is already set to MyClass (i.e. the argument to #nextAs:)
- a NeoJSONList represents each JSON list
- a NeoJSONValue represents all other values e.g. bools, nil, strings,
numbers

Some useful things to do:
- For each NeoJSONObject that you want to map to a class, select it in the
explorer and:
  self schema: MyOtherClass.
  self generateInstVars. "self explanatory?"
  self mappingSourceCode inspect. "see the neoJsonMapping: source that would
be generated"
  self generateMapping. "compile class-side neoJsonMapping:"
- Select any field inside a NeoJSONObject that you want to map to an inst
var with a different name and:
  self instVarName: #isSaved "(e.g. to map JSON fields_with_underscores to
camelCase var names)"
- Specify the element type of a list by selecting it and:
  self elementSchema: MyListReturnType. "This will automatically set the
schema to #ArrayOfMyListReturnType, but you can change that manually if you
want by sending #schema:)

After customizing, sending #generateMapping to a NeoJSONObject should
generate something like:
neoJsonMapping: mapper
mapper for: self do: [ :mapping |
mapping mapInstVars: #(notes id).
(mapping mapInstVar: #day) valueSchema: Date.
(mapping mapInstVar: #events) valueSchema: #ArrayOfMyEvent.
mapping mapInstVar: #isSaved to: #is_saved.
(mapping mapInstVar: #timeSaved) valueSchema: DateAndTime ].

mapper for: Date customDo: [ :mapping | ]. "now you specify how to 
convert
the string to a Date"
mapper for: #ArrayOfMyEvent customDo: [ :mapping |
mapping listOfElementSchema: MyEvent ].
mapper for: DateAndTime customDo: [ :mapping | ]. "same as Date above"

This started as a tiny little personal experiment that got away from me, ha
ha, so there is no UI, tests, or doc (except for this post). MIT of course.
Enjoy!



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] SuffixConditionals

[Sean P. DeNigris]

> I just checked https://github.com/randycoulman/SuffixConditionals, the *.pst 
> files are XML files and are therefore readable
Ha, cool!





-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Marcus Denker-4 wrote
> The new website is online!

Wow! Instantly obvious that Aurelia was involved because it has that "well
designed" look instead of our usual "I'm an engineer trying my best" look,
lol ;-P



-
Cheers,
Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Esteban Lorenzano]

yeah, and don’t forget Nico’s effort :)
I put him real pressure on him last 3 weeks, and he took it without complain… 
and he did a great work :) 

Esteban

On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:35, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:

> Marcus Denker-4 wrote
>> The new website is online!
> 
> Wow! Instantly obvious that Aurelia was involved because it has that "well
> designed" look instead of our usual "I'm an engineer trying my best" look,
> lol ;-P
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://forum.world.st/New-Website-online-tp4757241p4757250.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Esteban A. Maringolo]

2014-04-30 11:35 GMT-03:00 Sean P. DeNigris :
> Marcus Denker-4 wrote
>> The new website is online!
>
> Wow! Instantly obvious that Aurelia was involved because it has that "well
> designed" look instead of our usual "I'm an engineer trying my best" look,
> lol ;-P

+1

The design is really nice. Clean, and with the same color palette as
Pharo itself.
The logo has been flattened to follow latests trends, I like that too.

Congratulations.



Esteban A. Maringolo

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Sean P. DeNigris]

EstebanLM wrote
> yeah, and don’t forget Nico’s effort :)

I didn't actually *do* anything with the site yet, just enjoyed the look, so
I was saving that praise ;)



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
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Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[Torsten Bergmann]

Also on DZONE

http://www.dzone.com/links/pharo_30_is_out_the_live_programming_environment.html


> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. April 2014 um 16:27 Uhr
> Von: "Sven Van Caekenberghe" 
> An: "Pharo Development List" 
> Cc: "Any question about pharo is welcome" 
> Betreff: Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!
>
> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7673462
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:24, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
> > and is also at ycombinator
> > 
> > thumbs up!
> > 
> > Esteban
> > 
> > 
> > On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:14, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> > 
> >> reddit: 
> >> 
> >> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/24d9d2/pharo_30_the_immersive_live_environment_released/
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Dear World,
> >>> 
> >>> Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many 
> >>> things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
> >>> - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the 
> >>> system.
> >>> - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports 
> >>> Cairo rendering on all platforms.
> >>> - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building 
> >>> user interfaces.
> >>> - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
> >>> - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully 
> >>> integrated in the system.
> >>> - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector 
> >>> received a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser 
> >>> supports tags, search and lot more improvements.
> >>> - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme 
> >>> has been revamped.
> >>> 
> >>> These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as 
> >>> important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 
> >>> issues in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount 
> >>> of the progress:
> >>> 
> >>> https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
> >>> 
> >>> Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of 
> >>> Pharo (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the 
> >>> red bricks represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from 
> >>> Pharo 2 to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
> >>> 
> >>> Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of 
> >>> this release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément 
> >>> Bera, Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, 
> >>> Noury Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, 
> >>> Damien Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo 
> >>> Contreras, Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del 
> >>> Sasso, Gisela Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, 
> >>> Martin Dias, Erwan Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo 
> >>> Estefo, Luc Fabresse, Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, 
> >>> Leo Gassman, Lucas Giudice, Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, 
> >>> Dale Henrichs, Pablo Herrero, Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro 
> >>> Infante, Ricardo Jacas, Henrik Sperre Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel 
> >>> Krivanek, Juraj Kubelka, Laurent Laffont, Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David 
> >>> Lewis, Diego Lont, Esteban Lorenzano, Stefan Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, 
> >>> Roberto Minelli, Hernan Morales Durand, Eliot Miranda, Fernando Olivero, 
> >>> Nicolas Papagna Maldonado, Nick Papoylias, Nicolas Passerini, Vanessa 
> >>> Peña, Nicolas Petton, Alain Plantec, Guillermo Polito, Damien Pollet, 
> >>> Jochen Rick, Benjamin Van Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille Teruel, Juan 
> >>> Pablo Sandoval Alcocer, Samir Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor Stasenko, 
> >>> Aliaksei Syrel, Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, Martin 
> >>> Walk, Hernan Wilkinson. 
> >>> And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, 
> >>> participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
> >>> 
> >>> Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a 
> >>> step. Expect more. Much more.
> >>> 
> >>> Enjoy!
> >>> The Pharo Team
> >> 
> > 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

Today is a great day !

I am really proud to be part of this community and thankful for the 
contributions and hard work of so many people.

This is a very important milestone while the future looks even brighter.

Sven
 
On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:

> Dear World,
> 
> Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
> 
> 
> 
> The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many 
> things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
> - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the 
> system.
> - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports Cairo 
> rendering on all platforms.
> - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building 
> user interfaces.
> - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
> - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully 
> integrated in the system.
> - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector received 
> a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser supports 
> tags, search and lot more improvements.
> - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme has 
> been revamped.
> 
> These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as 
> important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 issues 
> in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of the 
> progress:
> 
> https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
> 
> Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of Pharo 
> (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red bricks 
> represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. 
> 
> 
> 
> Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from Pharo 2 
> to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
> 
> Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of this 
> release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément Bera, 
> Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, Noury 
> Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, Damien 
> Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo Contreras, 
> Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del Sasso, Gisela 
> Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, Martin Dias, Erwan 
> Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo Estefo, Luc Fabresse, 
> Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo Gassman, Lucas Giudice, 
> Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale Henrichs, Pablo Herrero, 
> Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante, Ricardo Jacas, Henrik Sperre 
> Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek, Juraj Kubelka, Laurent Laffont, 
> Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, Diego Lont, Esteban Lorenzano, Stefan 
> Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto Minelli, Hernan Morales Durand, Eliot 
> Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas Papagna Maldonado, Nick Papoylias, Nicolas 
> Passerini, Vanessa Peña, Nicolas Petton, Alain Plantec, Guillermo Polito, 
> Damien Pollet, Jochen Rick, Benjamin Van Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille 
> Teruel, Juan Pablo Sandoval Alcocer, Samir Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor 
> Stasenko, Aliaksei Syrel, Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, 
> Martin Walk, Hernan Wilkinson. 
> And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, 
> participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
> 
> Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a 
> step. Expect more. Much more.
> 
> Enjoy!
> The Pharo Team

Re: [Pharo-dev] [pharo-project/pharo-core]

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Eliot Miranda-2 wrote
> Do they have a feedback channel through which you could ask?  Why don't
> you ask them?

Their feedback channel is unbelievable given how most companies handle
customer service - you contact them via github.com, and a real, knowledgable
person gets back to you... I've reached out and await their reply.



-
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Sean
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Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Esteban A. Maringolo]

>From Reddit, a reader has a good point:

"Ok, but WTF is Pharo? A new OS, A language/gui, A dockeresque
container system, Wordpress clone? What!!!
Novice tip. On your about page include answers to What does it do? Why
would I want it? Don't include a mission statement..."

Maybe we should be more explicit about it.

Regards!

Esteban A. Maringolo


2014-04-30 11:26 GMT-03:00 Marcus Denker :
> Hi,
>
> The new website is online!
>
> http://pharo.org
>
> For now, pharo-project.org still is the old website.
> Next: pharo-project.org should forward to pharo.org,
> it will still be available as old.pharo-project.org for some time.
>
> Thanks a lot to
> Nico http://nicolas-petton.fr,
> Esteban http://smallworks.eu,
> Damien  http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
> and Aurelia http://aurelia.saout.fr
>
>
> Marcus
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Ben Coman]

Sean P. DeNigris wrote:

  Marcus Denker-4 wrote
  
  
The new website is online!

  
  
Wow! Instantly obvious that Aurelia was involved because it has that "well
designed" look instead of our usual "I'm an engineer trying my best" look,
lol ;-P


  

Lots of white space. Love it.  Its nice to learn there was a designer
behind it and whose that was.  All the sites on her portfolio site look
great.
cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

We need more votes & comments to get to the front page !

On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:27, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

> https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7673462
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:24, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
>> and is also at ycombinator
>> 
>> thumbs up!
>> 
>> Esteban
>> 
>> 
>> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:14, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>> 
>>> reddit: 
>>> 
>>> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/24d9d2/pharo_30_the_immersive_live_environment_released/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>>> 
 Dear World,
 
 Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
 
 
 
 The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many 
 things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
 - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the 
 system.
 - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports 
 Cairo rendering on all platforms.
 - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building 
 user interfaces.
 - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
 - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully 
 integrated in the system.
 - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector 
 received a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser 
 supports tags, search and lot more improvements.
 - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme 
 has been revamped.
 
 These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as 
 important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 
 issues in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of 
 the progress:
 
 https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
 
 Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of 
 Pharo (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red 
 bricks represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. 
 
 
 
 Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from 
 Pharo 2 to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
 
 Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of 
 this release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément 
 Bera, Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, 
 Noury Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, 
 Damien Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo 
 Contreras, Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del 
 Sasso, Gisela Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, 
 Martin Dias, Erwan Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo 
 Estefo, Luc Fabresse, Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo 
 Gassman, Lucas Giudice, Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale 
 Henrichs, Pablo Herrero, Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante, 
 Ricardo Jacas, Henrik Sperre Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek, 
 Juraj Kubelka, Laurent Laffont, Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, 
 Diego Lont, Esteban Lorenzano, Stefan Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto 
 Minelli, Hernan Morales Durand, Eliot Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas 
 Papagna Maldonado, Nick Papoylias, Nicolas Passerini, Vanessa Peña, 
 Nicolas Petton, Alain Plantec, Guillermo Polito, Damien Pollet, Jochen 
 Rick, Benjamin Van Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille Teruel, Juan Pablo 
 Sandoval Alcocer, Samir Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor Stasenko, Aliaksei 
 Syrel, Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, Martin Walk, Hernan 
 Wilkinson. 
 And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, 
 participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
 
 Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a 
 step. Expect more. Much more.
 
 Enjoy!
 The Pharo Team
>>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Sean P. DeNigris]

Esteban A. Maringolo wrote
> "Ok, but WTF is Pharo? A new OS, A language/gui, A dockeresque

The pattern from other "cool" language home pages seems to be one sentence
with what and why (examples below). 

Here's a first take leveraging Simon Sinek's advice to "Start With Why" [1]:
Do you want total, immediate control over your programming and computing
experience? Then Pharo is for you. It is a live, dynamic,
turtles-all-the-way-down environment (like an IDE and OS rolled into one).
Pharo is also a purely object-oriented language. Are you sitting down? The
environment is written in itself! Pharo is open source,
and available for Mac OS X, Windows and Linux.

Examples from other languages:

Ruby is...
A dynamic, open source programming language with a focus on simplicity and
productivity. It has an elegant syntax that is natural to read and easy to
write.

Python is a programming language that lets you work quickly
and integrate systems more effectively. Learn More

JavaScript® (often shortened to JS) is a lightweight, interpreted,
object-oriented language with first-class functions, most known as the
scripting language for Web pages, but used in many non-browser environments
as well such as node.js or Apache CouchDB. It is a prototype-based,
multi-paradigm scripting language that is dynamic, and supports
object-oriented, imperative, and functional programming styles.

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sioZd3AxmnE @ 4:05



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/New-Website-online-tp4757241p4757267.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Esteban Lorenzano]

there you go. 
I changed the “why pharo” taking your ides and extending them a bit. 
opinions/contributions are welcome :)

Esteban

On 30 Apr 2014, at 17:24, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:

> Esteban A. Maringolo wrote
>> "Ok, but WTF is Pharo? A new OS, A language/gui, A dockeresque
> 
> The pattern from other "cool" language home pages seems to be one sentence
> with what and why (examples below). 
> 
> Here's a first take leveraging Simon Sinek's advice to "Start With Why" [1]:
> Do you want total, immediate control over your programming and computing
> experience? Then Pharo is for you. It is a live, dynamic,
> turtles-all-the-way-down environment (like an IDE and OS rolled into one).
> Pharo is also a purely object-oriented language. Are you sitting down? The
> environment is written in itself! Pharo is open source,
> and available for Mac OS X, Windows and Linux.
> 
> Examples from other languages:
> 
> Ruby is...
> A dynamic, open source programming language with a focus on simplicity and
> productivity. It has an elegant syntax that is natural to read and easy to
> write.
> 
> Python is a programming language that lets you work quickly
> and integrate systems more effectively. Learn More
> 
> JavaScript® (often shortened to JS) is a lightweight, interpreted,
> object-oriented language with first-class functions, most known as the
> scripting language for Web pages, but used in many non-browser environments
> as well such as node.js or Apache CouchDB. It is a prototype-based,
> multi-paradigm scripting language that is dynamic, and supports
> object-oriented, imperative, and functional programming styles.
> 
> [1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sioZd3AxmnE @ 4:05
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://forum.world.st/New-Website-online-tp4757241p4757267.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[Jimmie Houchin]

On 04/28/2014 11:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:

… more a Smalltalk one using Pharo:

MountainWest RubyConf 2014

Noel Rappin: "But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk”

Smalltalk has mystique. We talk about it more than we use it. It seems like it 
should be so similar to Ruby. It has similar Object-Oriented structures, it 
even has blocks. But everything is so slightly different, from the programming 
environment, to the 1-based arrays, to the simple syntax. Using Smalltalk will 
make you look at familiar constructs with new eyes. We’ll show you how to get 
started on Smalltalk, and walk through some sample code. Live coding may be 
involved. You’ll never look at objects the same way again.


http://www.confreaks.com/videos/3284-mwrc-but-really-you-should-learn-smalltalk


In this thread and many others there is this debate as to whether Pharo 
is a Smalltalk or is Smalltalk Inspired.


I find the Smalltalk Inspired arguments to be unpersuasive. To be 
Smalltalk Inspired is to say that you are not a Smalltalk. It is to say 
that Pharo is not Smalltalk but inspired by it.


I find that reasoning patently false.

First of all everything in Pharo begins from a Smalltalk image. It comes 
from Squeak Smalltalk which comes from Apple Smalltalk. etc.


Pharo has an isA relationship with Smalltalk, not an isInspiredBy 
relationship. It may change and add features, but as has been stated 
before, Smalltalk isn't a static idea or artifact. It has always been a 
dynamic live environment in which to change itself into something it 
believed to be better. By removing features and by growing them.


Smalltalk (an instance of SmalltalkImage), SmalltalkImage, 
SmalltalkImageTest, SmalltalkEditingState are all part of the Pharo 
Smalltalk image.


The Pharo image is a Smalltalk image. It says so inside the image itself.

Where are we hosting are source code?  Would that be SmalltalkHub?
Lets see something.
http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo

Okay, Pharo might be doing things that would break compatibility with 
other Smalltalks. And that causes some people pain and grief. However 
that does not make Pharo not a Smalltalk. Was Smalltalk 76 constrained 
by backward compatibility with Smalltalk 72? Or Smalltalk 80 with either 
Smalltalk 76 or 72?  No!


Is it a requirement of Pharo to be constrained by other Smalltalk 
implementations in order to still be a Smalltalk. No!


And then there is the argument of the outside worlds perception of 
Smalltalk. Since when does the perception of the outside world change 
whether or not Pharo is a Smalltalk? If the outside world changed their 
mind and decided Smalltalk is wonderful, does Pharo then all of the 
sudden become a Smalltalk? Ugh!


We are who we are. Our roots are our roots. Pharo should be happy and 
proud to be a Smalltalk. A Smalltalk that is continuing the heritage of 
innovation. A Smalltalk that is continuing the heritage of inventing the 
future.


We have decided to be marketing driven. Marketing is important. But 
marketing should determine who we are. And we should engage in 
disingenuous marketing practice trying to hide our roots or who we are.


Why do we things distancing ourselves from Smalltalk advantages us? Just 
because there are lots of uneducated people who have the wrong idea 
about Smalltalk. Clojure embraced its Lisp heritage and is thriving. 
Lisp has every bit as much baggage.


This talk which inspired this thread called Pharo as Smalltalk. He said, 
Pharo Smalltalk throughout the presentation. So in the mind of the 
presenter and now in the mind of the audience at the conference and of 
the video, Pharo is a Smalltalk. So now are we to go about re-educating 
all these people that Pharo is not a Smalltalk but is rather Smalltalk 
Inspired?


We don't require the outside world's permission. We don't need their 
approval. We would like to have a reasonable and sufficient number of 
them to catch the Pharo Smalltalk vision and become a part of the 
family. Do we really desire everybody. No. Do we desire those people who 
are so closed minded that the mention of Smalltalk closes their mind 
because of their ignorance. I don't think so.


Smalltalk is different. Pharo is Smalltalk and is different. There will 
be those who don't like it because of the baggage they bring, not the 
baggage we bring. And that is okay. All of us think different. People 
need to embrace what empowers them and quit complaining about what 
empowers somebody else. We need to embrace empowering people who 
understand Smalltalk not the people who don't get it for whatever 
reason. Let those people go and be empowered somewhere else. We and they 
will both be better off.


Feel free to shred and destroy my arguments. I am proud to use 
Smalltalk. And currently Pharo is the Smalltalk I am choosing to use. 
Currently I am studying C. A C library is required for my project and in 
order to use Pharo and use this library, I need sufficient C skills.


My opinion unapologetic

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[Johan Fabry]

And a big +1 on that!

On Apr 30, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

> Today is a great day !
> 
> I am really proud to be part of this community and thankful for the 
> contributions and hard work of so many people.
> 
> This is a very important milestone while the future looks even brighter.
> 
> Sven
> 
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
> 
>> Dear World,
>> 
>> Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many 
>> things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
>> - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the 
>> system.
>> - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports Cairo 
>> rendering on all platforms.
>> - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building 
>> user interfaces.
>> - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
>> - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully 
>> integrated in the system.
>> - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector received 
>> a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser supports 
>> tags, search and lot more improvements.
>> - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme has 
>> been revamped.
>> 
>> These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as 
>> important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 issues 
>> in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of the 
>> progress:
>> 
>> https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
>> 
>> Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of 
>> Pharo (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red 
>> bricks represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from Pharo 
>> 2 to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
>> 
>> Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of this 
>> release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément Bera, 
>> Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, Noury 
>> Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, Damien 
>> Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo Contreras, 
>> Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del Sasso, Gisela 
>> Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, Martin Dias, 
>> Erwan Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo Estefo, Luc 
>> Fabresse, Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo Gassman, 
>> Lucas Giudice, Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale Henrichs, 
>> Pablo Herrero, Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante, Ricardo Jacas, 
>> Henrik Sperre Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek, Juraj Kubelka, 
>> Laurent Laffont, Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, Diego Lont, Esteban 
>> Lorenzano, Stefan Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto Minelli, Hernan 
>> Morales Durand, Eliot Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas Papagna Maldonado, 
>> Nick Papoylias, Nicolas Passerini, Vanessa Peña, Nicolas Petton, Alain 
>> Plantec, Guillermo Polito, Damien Pollet, Jochen Rick, Benjamin Van 
>> Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille Teruel, Juan Pablo Sandoval Alcocer, Samir 
>> Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor Stasenko, Aliaksei Syrel, Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy 
>> Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, Martin Walk, Hernan Wilkinson. 
>> And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, 
>> participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
>> 
>> Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a 
>> step. Expect more. Much more.
>> 
>> Enjoy!
>> The Pharo Team
> 
> 
> 



---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---

Johan Fabry   -   http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD lab  -  Computer Science Department (DCC)  -  University of Chile

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] New Website online

[Johan Fabry]

Slick! Congrats on the site.

On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:26 AM, Marcus Denker  wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> The new website is online!
> 
>   http://pharo.org
> 
> For now, pharo-project.org still is the old website. 
> Next: pharo-project.org should forward to pharo.org,
> it will still be available as old.pharo-project.org for some time.
> 
> Thanks a lot to 
>   Nico http://nicolas-petton.fr, 
>   Esteban http://smallworks.eu, 
>   Damien  http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
>   and Aurelia http://aurelia.saout.fr
> 
> 
>   Marcus
> 
> 



---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---

Johan Fabry   -   http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
PLEIAD lab  -  Computer Science Department (DCC)  -  University of Chile

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[Alexandre Bergel]

big big + 1

Congrat to all of us
Alexandre

On Apr 30, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Johan Fabry  wrote:

> 
> And a big +1 on that!
> 
> On Apr 30, 2014, at 11:01 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:
> 
>> Today is a great day !
>> 
>> I am really proud to be part of this community and thankful for the 
>> contributions and hard work of so many people.
>> 
>> This is a very important milestone while the future looks even brighter.
>> 
>> Sven
>> 
>> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear World,
>>> 
>>> Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many 
>>> things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
>>> - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the 
>>> system.
>>> - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports Cairo 
>>> rendering on all platforms.
>>> - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for building 
>>> user interfaces.
>>> - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
>>> - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully 
>>> integrated in the system.
>>> - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector 
>>> received a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser 
>>> supports tags, search and lot more improvements.
>>> - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme has 
>>> been revamped.
>>> 
>>> These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just as 
>>> important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727 issues 
>>> in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of the 
>>> progress:
>>> 
>>> https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
>>> 
>>> Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of 
>>> Pharo (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red 
>>> bricks represent the modified methods in Pharo 3. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from Pharo 
>>> 2 to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
>>> 
>>> Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of this 
>>> release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément Bera, 
>>> Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau, Noury 
>>> Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe, Damien 
>>> Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo 
>>> Contreras, Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del 
>>> Sasso, Gisela Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker, 
>>> Martin Dias, Erwan Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo 
>>> Estefo, Luc Fabresse, Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo 
>>> Gassman, Lucas Giudice, Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale 
>>> Henrichs, Pablo Herrero, Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante, 
>>> Ricardo Jacas, Henrik Sperre Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek, 
>>> Juraj Kubelka, Laurent Laffont, Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, Diego 
>>> Lont, Esteban Lorenzano, Stefan Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto 
>>> Minelli, Hernan Morales Durand, Eliot Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas 
>>> Papagna Maldonado, Nick Papoylias, Nicolas Passerini, Vanessa Peña, Nicolas 
>>> Petton, Alain Plantec, Guillermo Polito, Damien Pollet, Jochen Rick, 
>>> Benjamin Van Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille Teruel, Juan Pablo Sandoval 
>>> Alcocer, Samir Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor Stasenko, Aliaksei Syrel, 
>>> Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, Martin Walk, Hernan 
>>> Wilkinson. 
>>> And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs, 
>>> participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
>>> 
>>> Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a 
>>> step. Expect more. Much more.
>>> 
>>> Enjoy!
>>> The Pharo Team
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---
> 
> Johan Fabry   -   http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
> PLEIAD lab  -  Computer Science Department (DCC)  -  University of Chile
> 
> 

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

[David T. Lewis]

>
> There are no NativeBoost on Rpi, FFI or OSProcess.
> Basically the fileSystem work, but some data are fetch via env variable
> and then NativeBoost.
> The solution is to bypass all the request of env variable.
> You should use another way until, we finish to integrate a way to request
> correctly the env variable (NB on arm).
>
> I will studies the possibility to reintegrate fast the OSProcess plugin to
> offer "better" solution.


I would expect OSProcess to work without problems on Rpi, although I do
not have a way to test it. The plugin should be fine. Maybe some changes
will be needed on the image side for detecting the platform, I'm not sure.

Let me know if I can help, I will be glad to add any necessary patches to
OSProcess.

Dave

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Sean P. DeNigris]

One of Simon Sinek's core ideas is that people "buy" your product because
they believe what you believe, and that the why needs to come first to suck
them in.

Until we decide on the perfect wording, I would at least:
- change the heading from "The live programming environment" to "The
immersive programming experience"
- combine the top section and the why section into:
"Pharo gives you immediate and total control over your programming
experience. Focused on simplicity, cleanness, and immediate feedback, it is
a pure object-oriented programming language and a clean,
beautiful, innovative environment (think IDE and OS rolled into one). It is
open source and available for Mac OS X, Windows and Linux.
because:
- it puts the why first
- someone on reddit specifically said that "environment" doesn't really
clear anything up for them; thus "(think IDE and OS rolled into one)"
- moves the most nitty gritty implementation details to the rear (e.g.
platform support)

But I would seriously consider my other suggestion (the one starting with
"Do you want total, immediate control..."). It may sound a bit cheesy with
our engineer hats on, but I've had a lot of marketing/branding training, and
bold, emotionally appealing stuff like this is pure gold.

And for the release snippet, I would change from: "Pharo, the programming
language, live IDE and core library has a new release!" to maybe "Pharo -
the programming language and core library immersed in a live IDE (all
written in itself!) - has a new release!" to highlight the key points



-
Cheers,
Sean
--
View this message in context: 
http://forum.world.st/New-Website-online-tp4757241p4757278.html
Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Re: [Pharo-dev] [Pharo-users] New Website online

[Alexandre Bergel]

Yes, well done!!

Alexandre


On Apr 30, 2014, at 12:48 PM, Johan Fabry  wrote:

> 
> Slick! Congrats on the site.
> 
> On Apr 30, 2014, at 10:26 AM, Marcus Denker  wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> The new website is online!
>> 
>>  http://pharo.org
>> 
>> For now, pharo-project.org still is the old website. 
>> Next: pharo-project.org should forward to pharo.org,
>> it will still be available as old.pharo-project.org for some time.
>> 
>> Thanks a lot to 
>>  Nico http://nicolas-petton.fr, 
>>  Esteban http://smallworks.eu, 
>>  Damien  http://damiencassou.seasidehosting.st
>>  and Aurelia http://aurelia.saout.fr
>> 
>> 
>>  Marcus
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---> Save our in-boxes! http://emailcharter.org <---
> 
> Johan Fabry   -   http://pleiad.cl/~jfabry
> PLEIAD lab  -  Computer Science Department (DCC)  -  University of Chile
> 
> 

-- 
_,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:
Alexandre Bergel  http://www.bergel.eu
^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;._,.;:~^~:;.

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo 3.0 Released!

[p...@highoctane.be]

On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:01 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe  wrote:

> Today is a great day !
>
> I am really proud to be part of this community and thankful for the
> contributions and hard work of so many people.
>
> This is a very important milestone while the future looks even brighter.
>

Very true.

Thanks for everything. And the new site is very nice indeed.

Phil


>
> Sven
>
> On 30 Apr 2014, at 16:01, Esteban Lorenzano  wrote:
>
> > Dear World,
> >
> > Pharo 3.0 (http://www.pharo.org) is here.
> >
> > 
> >
> > The past year seemed short as we got busy building more than usual. Many
> things have changed in Pharo. Here are the highlights:
> > - The new modular Opal compiler is now the default compiler used in the
> system.
> > - The Athens vector graphics canvas is now integrated and it supports
> Cairo rendering on all platforms.
> > - Many tools have been rewritten using Spec, a new framework for
> building user interfaces.
> > - Versionner and Kommiter are two of the new development tools.
> > - RPackage, a new package mechanism got enhanced with tags and is fully
> integrated in the system.
> > - The debugger model was rewritten to become modular, the inspector
> received a bump to support multiple views, and the Nautilus code browser
> supports tags, search and lot more improvements.
> > - Morphic has seen many cleanings and improvements and the visual theme
> has been revamped.
> >
> > These are just the more prominent highlights, but the details are just
> as important. We have closed 2364 issues in Pharo 3 (compared with 1727
> issues in Pharo 2). Take a moment to go through a more detailed recount of
> the progress:
> >
> >
> https://github.com/pharo-project/ChangeLogs/blob/master/Pharo30ChangeLogs.md
> >
> > Pharo is improving on many fronts. Just take a look at the code city of
> Pharo (built with Pharo for Pharo). Every building is a class, and the red
> bricks represent the modified methods in Pharo 3.
> >
> > 
> >
> > Many things are changing but the system gets more stable. Moving from
> Pharo 2 to Pharo 3 is almost a matter of just loading the code.
> >
> > Remember that Pharo is your platform. We thank all the contributors of
> this release: Jean-Baptiste Arnaud, Simon Allier, Philippe Back, Clément
> Bera, Alexandre Bergel, Torsten Bergmann, Usman Bhatti, Vincent Blondeau,
> Noury Bouraqadi, Johan Brichau, Camillo Bruni, Sven Van Caekenberghe,
> Damien Cassou, Nicolas Cellier, Guido Chari, Dimitris Chloupis, Bernardo
> Contreras, Ben Coman, Gabriel Omar Cotelli, Jordi Delgado, Tommaso Del
> Sasso, Gisela Decuzzi, Christophe Demarey, Sean DeNigris, Marcus Denker,
> Martin Dias, Erwan Douaille, Stephane Ducasse, Stephan Eggermont, Pablo
> Estefo, Luc Fabresse, Johan Fabry, Hilaire Fernandes, Nahuel Garbezza, Leo
> Gassman, Lucas Giudice, Tudor Girba, Thierry Goubier, Norbert Hartl, Dale
> Henrichs, Pablo Herrero, Nicolai Hess, Andre Hora, Alejandro Infante,
> Ricardo Jacas, Henrik Sperre Johansen, Denis Kudryashov, Pavel Krivanek,
> Juraj Kubelka, Laurent Laffont, Jannik Laval, Max Leske, David Lewis, Diego
> Lont, Esteban Lorenzano, Stefan Marr, Mariano Martinez Peck, Roberto
> Minelli, Hernan Morales Durand, Eliot Miranda, Fernando Olivero, Nicolas
> Papagna Maldonado, Nick Papoylias, Nicolas Passerini, Vanessa Peña, Nicolas
> Petton, Alain Plantec, Guillermo Polito, Damien Pollet, Jochen Rick,
> Benjamin Van Ryseghem, Ronie Salgado, Camille Teruel, Juan Pablo Sandoval
> Alcocer, Samir Saleh, Frank Shearar, Igor Stasenko, Aliaksei Syrel,
> Sebastian Tleye, Yuriy Tymchuk, Andres Valloud, Martin Walk, Hernan
> Wilkinson.
> > And many many more who contributed indirectly, by reporting bugs,
> participating in discussion threads, providing feedback...
> >
> > Pharo 3.0 is the largest step we took since we started. Yet, it’s just a
> step. Expect more. Much more.
> >
> > Enjoy!
> > The Pharo Team
>
>
>

Re: [Pharo-dev] a Pharo talk from a ruby conference

[p...@highoctane.be]

Pharo := Smalltalk ++





On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Jimmie Houchin  wrote:

> On 04/28/2014 11:12 AM, Marcus Denker wrote:
>
>> … more a Smalltalk one using Pharo:
>>
>> MountainWest RubyConf 2014
>>
>> Noel Rappin: "But Really, You Should Learn Smalltalk”
>>
>> Smalltalk has mystique. We talk about it more than we use it. It seems
>> like it should be so similar to Ruby. It has similar Object-Oriented
>> structures, it even has blocks. But everything is so slightly different,
>> from the programming environment, to the 1-based arrays, to the simple
>> syntax. Using Smalltalk will make you look at familiar constructs with new
>> eyes. We’ll show you how to get started on Smalltalk, and walk through some
>> sample code. Live coding may be involved. You’ll never look at objects the
>> same way again.
>>
>> http://www.confreaks.com/videos/3284-mwrc-but-really-
>> you-should-learn-smalltalk
>>
>
> In this thread and many others there is this debate as to whether Pharo is
> a Smalltalk or is Smalltalk Inspired.
>
> I find the Smalltalk Inspired arguments to be unpersuasive. To be
> Smalltalk Inspired is to say that you are not a Smalltalk. It is to say
> that Pharo is not Smalltalk but inspired by it.
>
> I find that reasoning patently false.
>
> First of all everything in Pharo begins from a Smalltalk image. It comes
> from Squeak Smalltalk which comes from Apple Smalltalk. etc.
>
> Pharo has an isA relationship with Smalltalk, not an isInspiredBy
> relationship. It may change and add features, but as has been stated
> before, Smalltalk isn't a static idea or artifact. It has always been a
> dynamic live environment in which to change itself into something it
> believed to be better. By removing features and by growing them.
>
> Smalltalk (an instance of SmalltalkImage), SmalltalkImage,
> SmalltalkImageTest, SmalltalkEditingState are all part of the Pharo
> Smalltalk image.
>
> The Pharo image is a Smalltalk image. It says so inside the image itself.
>
> Where are we hosting are source code?  Would that be SmalltalkHub?
> Lets see something.
> http://www.smalltalkhub.com/#!/~Pharo
>
> Okay, Pharo might be doing things that would break compatibility with
> other Smalltalks. And that causes some people pain and grief. However that
> does not make Pharo not a Smalltalk. Was Smalltalk 76 constrained by
> backward compatibility with Smalltalk 72? Or Smalltalk 80 with either
> Smalltalk 76 or 72?  No!
>
> Is it a requirement of Pharo to be constrained by other Smalltalk
> implementations in order to still be a Smalltalk. No!
>
> And then there is the argument of the outside worlds perception of
> Smalltalk. Since when does the perception of the outside world change
> whether or not Pharo is a Smalltalk? If the outside world changed their
> mind and decided Smalltalk is wonderful, does Pharo then all of the sudden
> become a Smalltalk? Ugh!
>
> We are who we are. Our roots are our roots. Pharo should be happy and
> proud to be a Smalltalk. A Smalltalk that is continuing the heritage of
> innovation. A Smalltalk that is continuing the heritage of inventing the
> future.
>
> We have decided to be marketing driven. Marketing is important. But
> marketing should determine who we are. And we should engage in disingenuous
> marketing practice trying to hide our roots or who we are.
>
> Why do we things distancing ourselves from Smalltalk advantages us? Just
> because there are lots of uneducated people who have the wrong idea about
> Smalltalk. Clojure embraced its Lisp heritage and is thriving. Lisp has
> every bit as much baggage.
>
> This talk which inspired this thread called Pharo as Smalltalk. He said,
> Pharo Smalltalk throughout the presentation. So in the mind of the
> presenter and now in the mind of the audience at the conference and of the
> video, Pharo is a Smalltalk. So now are we to go about re-educating all
> these people that Pharo is not a Smalltalk but is rather Smalltalk Inspired?
>
> We don't require the outside world's permission. We don't need their
> approval. We would like to have a reasonable and sufficient number of them
> to catch the Pharo Smalltalk vision and become a part of the family. Do we
> really desire everybody. No. Do we desire those people who are so closed
> minded that the mention of Smalltalk closes their mind because of their
> ignorance. I don't think so.
>
> Smalltalk is different. Pharo is Smalltalk and is different. There will be
> those who don't like it because of the baggage they bring, not the baggage
> we bring. And that is okay. All of us think different. People need to
> embrace what empowers them and quit complaining about what empowers
> somebody else. We need to embrace empowering people who understand
> Smalltalk not the people who don't get it for whatever reason. Let those
> people go and be empowered somewhere else. We and they will both be better
> off.
>
> Feel free to shred and destroy my arguments. I am proud to use Smalltalk.
> And currentl

[Pharo-dev] Mac - Identified Developers

[Ben Coman]

From reddit...
> My mac complains: "Pharo3.0" can't be opened because it is from an 
unidentified developer. Your security prefernces allow installation of 
only apps from the Mac App Store and identified developers. Of course I 
just can turn off this. But still.


What is the constraint to producing the Mac version as an identified 
developer?


cheers -ben

Re: [Pharo-dev] Pharo RPi and FileSystem error

[Douglas McPherson]

As a data point, OSProcess works "out-of-the-box" with the Squeak interpreter 
VM shipped with Raspbian. So should be ok in Pharo, but I haven't tried it.

Doug
 
On Apr 30, 2014, at 09:03 , David T. Lewis wrote:

>> 
>> There are no NativeBoost on Rpi, FFI or OSProcess.
>> Basically the fileSystem work, but some data are fetch via env variable
>> and then NativeBoost.
>> The solution is to bypass all the request of env variable.
>> You should use another way until, we finish to integrate a way to request
>> correctly the env variable (NB on arm).
>> 
>> I will studies the possibility to reintegrate fast the OSProcess plugin to
>> offer "better" solution.
> 
> 
> I would expect OSProcess to work without problems on Rpi, although I do
> not have a way to test it. The plugin should be fine. Maybe some changes
> will be needed on the image side for detecting the platform, I'm not sure.
> 
> Let me know if I can help, I will be glad to add any necessary patches to
> OSProcess.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 

Re: [Pharo-dev] New Website online

[Sven Van Caekenberghe]

+10

I think Sean's suggestions and perspective make a lot of sense. Let's also not 
forget that he is a native English speaker and we are not. And the whole idea 
of the new website was mainly about marketing anyway.

On 30 Apr 2014, at 18:04, Sean P. DeNigris  wrote:

> One of Simon Sinek's core ideas is that people "buy" your product because
> they believe what you believe, and that the why needs to come first to suck
> them in.
> 
> Until we decide on the perfect wording, I would at least:
> - change the heading from "The live programming environment" to "The
> immersive programming experience"
> - combine the top section and the why section into:
> "Pharo gives you immediate and total control over your programming
> experience. Focused on simplicity, cleanness, and immediate feedback, it is
> a pure object-oriented programming language and a clean,
> beautiful, innovative environment (think IDE and OS rolled into one). It is
> open source and available for Mac OS X, Windows and Linux.
> because:
> - it puts the why first
> - someone on reddit specifically said that "environment" doesn't really
> clear anything up for them; thus "(think IDE and OS rolled into one)"
> - moves the most nitty gritty implementation details to the rear (e.g.
> platform support)
> 
> But I would seriously consider my other suggestion (the one starting with
> "Do you want total, immediate control..."). It may sound a bit cheesy with
> our engineer hats on, but I've had a lot of marketing/branding training, and
> bold, emotionally appealing stuff like this is pure gold.
> 
> And for the release snippet, I would change from: "Pharo, the programming
> language, live IDE and core library has a new release!" to maybe "Pharo -
> the programming language and core library immersed in a live IDE (all
> written in itself!) - has a new release!" to highlight the key points
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Cheers,
> Sean
> --
> View this message in context: 
> http://forum.world.st/New-Website-online-tp4757241p4757278.html
> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>