Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
I have been trying out TIDAL for the last week or so and I have to say that I am unimpressed with the content of their Music Library. Almost every artist that I pull up has fewer albums than Spotify does. It's missing a lot of my Favorites. This would be a 'No-Go' for me! Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
pippin wrote: As said before: right now it requires a server to be running. We have an applet in our closed beta that runs directly on Touch or Radio but that's not ready for the prime time, yet. need plugin testers? -- 4 TB Drobo--FW 800--mac mini--Ethernet Transporter-- Wireworld Eclipse 6 coax--Meridian G61 G61-- Nordost Red Dawn--Primare 30.3 Primare--Ocos--Vienna Acoustics Beethoven/Maestro netchord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: I bought a raspberry Pi to fool around with. I had it hooked up to my system and could also hear a Hum in my 114db Oris Horns that was not there with my SBTs. As an Audiophile, I did not to mess with this Pi anymore. Actually in my case it was actually the Pi (or rather the plug) that was making the noise, I was just using it as a server for a SBT. Bluedroog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Pascal Hibon wrote: If I decide to no longer use the renting service, my investment is gone (aka 0 CD's; 0 tracks). That's why I have a good r2r and cassette tape recorder... Zombie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=25009 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
is it likely any plugin will require a server to be running? Spotify doesn't but Qobuz does, not a huge issue but my raspberry Pi makes a slight hum and sometimes needs rebooting. Presumably just keep checking this forum to see is any developments with the app. :D Bluedroog's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40177 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
As said before: right now it requires a server to be running. We have an applet in our closed beta that runs directly on Touch or Radio but that's not ready for the prime time, yet. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
pippin wrote: As said before: right now it requires a server to be running. We have an applet in our closed beta that runs directly on Touch or Radio but that's not ready for the prime time, yet. Would the app run on any squeezeplay based player or just genuine hardware. I have several O2 Jogglers running Squeezeplay on a 7 touchscreen that is able to install the applets, obviously Spotify for example won't work on 3rd party hardware but it will install. jimbobvfr400's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=56857 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Interesting question. I have never tried this. It will also probably depend a bit on the service but I think if you can install applets it should generally work, at least on Linux. But as I said... It's currently really in a bit of an early state. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Bluedroog wrote: not a huge issue but my raspberry Pi makes a slight hum and sometimes needs rebooting. I bought a raspberry Pi to fool around with. I had it hooked up to my system and could also hear a Hum in my 114db Oris Horns that was not there with my SBTs. As an Audiophile, I did not to mess with this Pi anymore. Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: I bought a raspberry Pi to fool around with. I had it hooked up to my system and could also hear a Hum in my 114db Oris Horns that was not there with my SBTs. As an Audiophile, I did not to mess with this Pi anymore. Yes, out-of-the-box audio via audio jack is mediocre at best (HDMI is better, though), that's why for audiophile use one should use a DAC card like Hifiberry, IQaudIO, or the Wolfson. - *ASRock Ion 330* (home office) running Xubuntu 14.04.1 LTS + LMS 7.9, all music streamed as FLAC Local Player Behringer MS 40 active nearfield monitors via toslink - *Boom* (master bedroom), *Radio* (master bathroom), *Archos 35 Home Connect* + SqueezePlayer (guest bathroom) - *Reson PR 80s* as UPnP client (living room) Parasound DAC 1500 vintage Wega Modul 42V amp (with 42E equalizer, 42T tape deck, and Thorens TD 160 Mk II turntable) Quadral Vulkan Mk II speakers - *Duet* + *Radio* in storage wortgefecht's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63295 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
@remd Will the new plugins you are building for ickstream be LMS plugins? That would be great, because all LMS users could profit and reliance on Mysqueezebox.com would be reduced. New Deezer, Google Play Music and so on Plugins would be great! CommanderROR's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59408 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
@commander - Yes we'll provide a lms plugin which will give access to TIDAL and more.. Interested in the future of music streaming ? www.ickStream.com - A world of music at your fingertips. remd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14098 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Ok thanks. Any special repos I should be adding? CommanderROR's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59408 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Has anyone established whether the existing WiMP plugin works with the US/UK service yet? Michael? AFAIK it won't work. As pippin mentioned Tidal would require a new implementation using a new API. -- Michael ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Although I don't really have much interest in TIDAL at the moment, I'm curious: Will it be getting official support by Logitech and mysqueezebox.com? JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Although I don't really have much interest in TIDAL at the moment, I'm curious: Will it be getting official support by Logitech and mysqueezebox.com? As always: can't say. -- Michael ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
So Tidal does pretty much what you would expect (unless you're a dyed-in-the-wool optimist). Absolute garbage in their videos. This is an MP3 -- the sound lacks liveliness Now in lossless... This is lossless sound quality -- a fully detailed, richer sound. AAC 320 sounds just okay. The video on the Tidal website is actually an embedded Vimeo video. So none of their comparisons make any sense. Obviously, Vimeo provides a lossy audio stream (there's a disclaimer where they admit to that). dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
remd wrote: Tidal will be available on ickStream for Squeezebox users soon, so stay tuned ! http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?102381-Tidal-Hi-Resolution-Streams-available-on-ickStream-soon-for-all-Squeezebox-users! Well, this is Great News!. Can you explain a bit how this would interface with an SBT? Would it be a Pluggin? Or ?? Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Has anyone established whether the existing WiMP plugin works with the US/UK service yet? Michael? Two track 1's and no track 2 after a scan for new and changed? Please vote for serious scanning bug '17782' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17782) Receiver stuck at blue LED state after reboot? Please vote for bug '17462' (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=17462) paulster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=23073 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
I don't think it does. I think it uses the old WiMP API --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Mnyb wrote: Problem is for that its hard to do , I can order wimp hifi for a test month and probably compare wimp spotify and my own files , but still hard to keep track of volume differences, different masters etc and also other variations such a some more obscure artist migth not yet have his files upgraded to the best quality. I agree with all that. But why not compare lossy and lossless offline? To my knowledge, no reliable method exists to ABX streams. And doesn't it seem a bit far-fetched to assume that a given streaming provider will treat a given release differently for lossy than lossless? dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: I agree with all that. But why not compare lossy and lossless offline? To my knowledge, no reliable method exists to ABX streams. And doesn't it seem a bit far-fetched to assume that a given streaming provider will treat a given release differently for lossy than lossless? Done that on some ocasions local files 320k sounded exactly the same to me with server transcoding note that ! . The mp3 decoder in the squeezebox has some known artifacts so I would not trust that ( it s in the bugzilla having to do with no floating point math on the squeezebox ). IMO it's not a given what you get from a streaming service ,when you make local files you have the same source and can use the best decoders with the best settings . I'm not sure how proper my own test have been but it gives a hint in a certain direction . I also did Archimagos web based blind test on it . And then there is the remote possibility that you may hear something on some material with a large enough collection , so at home I'm quite content with 16/44.1 flac and for archival reasons they are real copies of my CD's and downloads . It would not feasible to blind test 47000 tracks :P but I don't need the confidence they have at the LHC for my own hobby purposes . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Mnyb wrote: It would not feasible to blind test 47000 tracks :P Sure, and again you're making some reasonable points. I guess I'm just saying that I don't expect a reasonable test to be mission impossible. Disable all options (such as loudness correction options) in the streaming client, and capture lossy and lossless streams. I suspect if the community did this for a sample of tracks, we'd probably even be able to identify the exact master for a sizable subsample. I feel the discussion got sidetracked a bit, too (e.g., conversations about lossless and hearing impairment). Once again, I firmly believe the argument for lossy is particularly strong for streaming, more so than for other applications such as archival. dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: Sure, and again you're making some reasonable points. I guess I'm just saying that I don't expect a reasonable test to be mission impossible. Disable all options (such as loudness correction options) in the streaming client, and capture lossy and lossless streams. I suspect if the community did this for a sample of tracks, we'd probably even be able to identify the exact master for a sizable subsample. I feel the discussion got sidetracked a bit, too (e.g., conversations about lossy and hearing impairment). Once again, I firmly believe the argument for lossy is particularly strong for streaming, more so than for other applications such as archival. EDIT Somebody cmiiw, but the only major thing that's limiting the usefulness of my suggesting is the legal aspect. Discussing test results in public may be problematic, as it may not be legal to capture DRMed streams in many jurisdictions. /EDIT That's another aspect btw do you think they inject watermarking in the streams ? This can not be unsubtle as it has to survive mp3/ogg decoder ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Tidal launched today in the US/UK. Michael: where's my plugin at? ;) -- 4 TB Drobo--FW 800--mac mini--Ethernet Transporter-- Wireworld Eclipse 6 coax--Meridian G61 G61-- Nordost Red Dawn--Primare 30.3 Primare--Ocos--Vienna Acoustics Beethoven/Maestro netchord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21002 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
netchord wrote: Tidal launched today in the US/UK. Michael: where's my plugin at? ;) Haha . jimmypowder's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=61215 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
netchord wrote: Tidal launched today in the US/UK. Michael: where's my plugin at? ;) +1 !! ;-) Actually I'm a newbie here - although I've been using SBS/LMS for years Currently LMS via Squeezeplug on a Odroid U3, storage on a NAS, 2 Squeezebox players and on O2 Joggler that plays higher bit rates than the Squeezeboxes and has a nice display - cheap and cheerful Touch! Tidal looks awesome...I've signed up for the demo, but would really use it in anger if there was a plugin like Triodes Spotify one. Does anyone know if it's being worked on/modified from the Wimp plugin or do I need to start learning to code in a hurry??! steves999's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63486 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
kesey wrote: JJZolx, how can you by any possible stretch of the imagination work out that a choice of music of 25,000,000 tracks at a resolution of 16/44.1 is unfairly priced at $20.00 per month? As long as one listens to it, and has the network speed capable of avoiding buffering etc, there is surely no contest. One CD at $20.00 per month. 12 CDs per year. Over 40 years, 480 CDs, so maybe at a generous 15 tacks per CD you have bought 7,200 tracks. For exactly the same money you could have 25,000,000 tracks at the same resolution on tap. Please explain how that is not a good deal. Sure, but once you stop paying $20 a month you end up with 0 tracks. I also find $20 too expensive to rent music, even if it is CD quality. 'M-DAC' (http://www.audiolab.co.uk/M-DAC%20Series.aspx?lang=En) - 'Cambridge Audio Azur 840E' (http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/azur-840e-pre-amplifier) - 'Focal MP1200' (http://www.mp1200.co.nf/) - 'Focal Electra 1028 Be' (http://www.focal.com/en/electra-1000-be-2/209-electra-1028-be-3544053695099.html) 1 x SB3, 1 x SB Boom, 1 x SB Radio and 2 x SB Touch - all wireless 1 x Wandboard Dual behind the bedroom ceiling 1 x Wandboard Dual for 'msqueeze' (http://www.msqueeze.co.nf/index.html) project 1 x Wandboard Quad (will eventually become my LMS server) ReadyNAS NVX running LMS 7.8.1. - 1402661598 iPeng 7 on iPhone. SqueezePad iPeng 7 on iPad. http://www.last.fm/user/phibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Pascal Hibon wrote: Sure, but once you stop paying $20 a month you end up with 0 tracks. I also find $20 too expensive to rent music, even if it is CD quality. And if you don't pay your electric Bill, you can't listen to those CDs any moreSuch is Life. Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
mintaudio wrote: Well, despite all your arguments I already use Qobuz, and have signed up with Tidal as a comparison. Not sure what that says about me ;) Looking forward to seeing how the plugin goes- Michael has done great work with Qobuz. That migth actually depend on where you are comming from I have 3700 albums after half a life collecting CD's Downloads and whatnot and now i can enjoy my 43000 tracks . But if you have no music collection its going to take while to get there one CD at the time. There are work done to get playlist transferable between services if one goes bust ,but not whole collections . It would be nice if in the future you could have in possession meta information about yourself including your music and plug it in wherever you are we are probaly getting there . But never the less i prefer a real collection and use services for exploration and social purposes (party anyone ) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: And if you don't pay your electric Bill, you can't listen to those CDs any moreSuch is Life. What kind of argument is that? If it doesn't rain you won't get wet. I was referring to your comparison of buying a CD a month at $20 vs streaming at $20 a month. Once I bought the CD I get to keep it. If I decide to no longer use the renting service, my investment is gone (aka 0 CD's; 0 tracks). 'M-DAC' (http://www.audiolab.co.uk/M-DAC%20Series.aspx?lang=En) - 'Cambridge Audio Azur 840E' (http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/azur-840e-pre-amplifier) - 'Focal MP1200' (http://www.mp1200.co.nf/) - 'Focal Electra 1028 Be' (http://www.focal.com/en/electra-1000-be-2/209-electra-1028-be-3544053695099.html) 1 x SB3, 1 x SB Boom, 1 x SB Radio and 2 x SB Touch - all wireless 1 x Wandboard Dual behind the bedroom ceiling 1 x Wandboard Dual for 'msqueeze' (http://www.msqueeze.co.nf/index.html) project 1 x Wandboard Quad (will eventually become my LMS server) ReadyNAS NVX running LMS 7.8.1. - 1402661598 iPeng 7 on iPhone. SqueezePad iPeng 7 on iPad. http://www.last.fm/user/phibon Pascal Hibon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7969 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Well, despite all your arguments I already use Qobuz, and have signed up with Tidal as a comparison. Not sure what that says about me ;) Looking forward to seeing how the plugin goes- Michael has done great work with Qobuz. mintaudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59106 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
pippin wrote: No, it's a misunderstanding. Spotify DOES have a feature to normalize volume across tracks and it DOES do additional dynamics compression degrading the dynamics of your track. Yeah, I know, but the feature has nothing to do lossy audio encoding. Remember we were not just talking about Spotify but also about WiMP and such. Also, it's not true that mp3 at high bitrates and with good encoding sounds the same as lossless. This is usually true if you have normal or good hearing but if your hearing is impaired it does no longer hold. mp3 (actually all of the lossy codecs) work by removing lower frequencies that are masked out by higher frequencies by our ear (or more precisely: by the audio compression our ear seems to do when transmitting the signal to the brain). They do NOT restore these frequencies when decoding the music. Your claim that somebody with impaired hearing is better able to identify artifacts in lossy audio is highly unorthodox. Can you provide evidence? Common sense suggests just the opposite: the better your hearing, the more likely to hear artifacts introduced by MP3. Think of it this way: somebody on the side of the road is humming. There's noise from cars driving by. The cars may mask the humming. But the better your hearing, the more likely you can still hear the humming against the car noise. There's one more thing you got backwards. An encoder may start by low-pass filtering the input signal. This would discard high frequency content, not low frequency content. When you hearing deteriorates, what typically happens is that your ability to hear high frequencies is impaired the most. This again contradicts your argument that people with poor hearing are more likely to successfully discriminate between lossy and lossless. dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: Yeah, I know, but the feature has nothing to do lossy audio encoding. Remember we were not just talking about Spotify but also about WiMP and such. . Yes thats it ,what they achive in practice not in theory , and for spotify I'm actually convinced that given that you use Triodes plugin and disable volume normalisation you achivetransparent results in -most- cases . And yes I still cant prove that you don't in some cases . And yes spotify has cleaned up their library over the years so it migth be better now than when i casually tested it . Would be nice if the services could be tranparent about thier signal processing and how theyget and process content , so that we knew what we actually are listeng to . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: Your claim that somebody with impaired hearing is better able to identify artifacts in lossy audio is highly unorthodox. Not at all. There have been scientific studies on this and I've tested it myself with earplugs. I'll see whether I can find any of it, it's a bit hard due to all the noise about mp3 supposedly impairing your hearing on Google. One non-scientific test is here (in German) but I've seen methodically better ones: http://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Kreuzverhoertest-287592.html Common sense suggests just the opposite: the better your hearing, the more likely to hear artifacts introduced by MP3. That's only the common sense of people who don't understand how mp3 works. Common sense of people who don't understand a topic is often wrong. Think of it this way: somebody on the side of the road is humming. There's noise from cars driving by. The cars may mask the humming. But the better your hearing, the more likely you can still hear the humming against the car noise. But it's nothing like that. What you describe is a low SNR which would make it hard to identify a certain sound. But in this case it has nothing to do with SNR, it's complete frequency ranges which completely get removed from the signal because the ear will suppress the information about them (they are still being heard by the ear itself, the information is just not being passed on to the brain). If that mechanism fails because your ear can't hear the frequency that's supposed to mask out the lower frequency you will hear the lower frequencies instead but they are missing in the mp3 file. mp3 works by compressing based on how a normal ear perceives sound, if your ears are not normal in some way, this works less well. This is also why to a majority of people (with normal or good listening capabilities) mp3s they identify usually sound better than the original: this is simply how the codec has been developed. In the lab they tested the responses of people when certain frequencies were removed from the spectrum of music and they picked the algorithms where the result sounded better or equal to the listeners. There's one more thing you got backwards. An encoder may start by low-pass filtering the input signal. This would discard high frequency content, not low frequency content. When you hearing deteriorates, what typically happens is that your ability to hear high frequencies is impaired the most. This again contradicts your argument that people with poor hearing are more likely to successfully discriminate between lossy and lossless. Again: this has nothing to do with normal filtering. Read up on how lossy compression works, you've probably got it all wrong. It's not a straightforward signal processing thing, it's actually modifying the signal but in a way that the human perception doesn't recognize. It's easy to recognize with a spectrometer, it's not just some gradual signal degradation or reduction in SNR or something like that, it really completely changes the signal. It's not like the discussion about high-sample-rate audio (where indeed the higher sample rates add nothing to the signal). --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
pippin wrote: One non-scientific test is here (in German) but I've seen methodically better ones: http://www.heise.de/ct/artikel/Kreuzverhoertest-287592.html I don't think this reference is relevant. The test was conducted in January 2000. Codecs have improved since then. A LOT. As for the rest of your post: I don't buy it at all. I really would like to see one of the more knowledgeable posters chime in (Julf, probedb etc.) My laymen's take on this is as follows. Lossy audio compression will introduce noise and distortion. The codec employs a psychoacoustic model that tries to introduce only artifacts you cannot hear. To that end, it makes use of spectral masking. If you introduce an artifact, say, at 900-920 Hz, but in that same frequency band, you have signal with a level 25 dB higher, you probably cannot hear the artifact. So what is the story you can tell which explains why somebody with impaired hearing would be more capable of hearing the articaft down there? -- As an aside, this whole discussion seems a bit funny. Should we conclude from your analysis that hearing impairment is why people should spend $$$ on lossless audio streaming? (I know you didn't say precisely that, I'm exaggerating.) dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: I don't think this reference is relevant. The test was conducted in January 2000. Codecs have improved since then. A LOT. That's what I said. I've seen newer ones. The principle stays the same. As for the rest of your post: I don't buy it at all. I really would like to see one of the more knowledgeable posters chime in (Julf, probedb etc.) You can consider knowledgable whoever you prefer. I would suggest you get a pair of earplugs as used by divers and do the test for yourself. My laymen's take on this is as follows. Lossy audio compression will introduce noise and distortion. The codec employs a psychoacoustic model that tries to introduce only artifacts you cannot hear. To that end, it makes use of spectral masking. If you introduce an artifact, say, at 900-920 Hz, but in that same frequency band, you have signal with a level 25 dB higher, you probably cannot hear the artifact. So what is the story you can tell which explains why somebody with impaired hearing would be more capable of hearing the articaft down there? Ummm, sorry, there is no such thing as different signals in the same frequency band. If you define a band, it's a band, there's one signal in that band. If you modify it, you modify the whole signal. What you do in an encoder is that you quantify your signal into a list of FFT quantizers. That's pretty simple for a single sine wave so that you can perfectly represent it with only a few bits. If you've got a more complex signal, though, you need more quantizers and when those cross the threshold defines by your target bitrate you simply remove some. Which ones you remove is defined by the psychoacoustic model. The model is intelligent enough to try to make sure the information loss (or more precisely: the wrong information created by the decoding process) is in the inaudible range and starts with a huge threshold but if your signal grows more complex you get closer to the audible range. This is also why studio recording usually encode just fine at even low bitrates. These days they are mastered in a way that even 128kbps mp3 doesn't really do harm to them. You can do this by mastering your signal in a way that you simply never reach heavily audible artifacts. This is much more difficult for live recordings, of course you can re-master those, too, but you will hear this, the whole recording will sound worse. There is no way a better codec can remove this effect, it's in the very principle of how the encoding works. It assumes a certain curve of frequency response in your hearing system, if you modify that curve the codec works less well. Of course, all of this gets worse with lower bitrates. As an aside, this whole discussion seems a bit funny. Should we conclude from your analysis that hearing impairment is why people should spend $$$ on lossless audio streaming? (I know you didn't say precisely that, I'm exaggerating.) I completely don't care why people spend money on stuff, for me they can throw it in a river or spend it on golden digital cables or nonsense like that. But it's a fact that it's actually often not _superior_ hearing that allows you to identify the artifacts but actually _inferior_ hearing. I kind of suspect that some (not all) of the opposition you get from some artists towards mp3 might have to do with this. A lot of artists and DJs who've played live for a lifetime develop hearing impairments (all those loud monitors), they probably hear the result differently from how you and me perceive it. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: As for the rest of your post: I don't buy it at all. I really would like to see one of the more knowledgeable posters chime in (Julf, probedb etc.) In this case I have to confirm that it is pretty well documented that some hearing defects do prevent the masking that perceptual codecs rely on from working. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: If you want to see the 'Flames Fly'; Just post this on an Audio Forum, such as Audio Asylum on the PC Audio Forum. -- There are Legions of People that would disagree vehemently with this Statement. And there are, of course, Legions of People who are wrong. I would appreciate a link to any reputable test to back up your claim. 'How many do you want?' (http://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/index.php?showforum=40) As for myself, I am keeping an open mind. Just make sure your brain doesn't fall out. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Julf wrote: In this case I have to confirm that it is pretty well documented that some hearing defects do prevent the masking that perceptual codecs rely on from working. Ha! So I guess a little more modesty and a friendlier tone vis-a-vis pippin would have been in order. @pippin: Thanks for the lecture. Surprising insights, I obviously was completely in the wrong. dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Sound Quality aside, the 75,000 HD Music Videos inTidal is well worth the price of admission for myself. Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: Sound Quality aside, the 75,000 HD Music Videos in Tidal is well worth the price of admission for myself. Thats actually very interesting ? now what kind of player can get that to the home theater ? a plugin for a smart TV Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Mnyb wrote: Thats actually very interesting ? now what kind of player can get that to the home theater ? a plugin for a smart TV I have a Samsung TV with a Web Browser. Spotify has a Web Player and I just run a Optical Cable from the Digital out on the TV to my DAC. - I only do Stereo. I would assume that Tidal would have a Web Player. Maybe Wimp Users Know?? Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Squeezemenicely wrote: The discussion has gone slightly off track. With loads of theories about lossy in general etc. Which is fine. But I would really like to compare Spotify to lossless stream or flac. Are those of you who believe lossy is just as good as lossless actualy saying that Spotify and lossless sound just as good? It is about streming services here, to my hearing there is a difference. Especially on natural instruments. Homemade mp3 and flac are not easy for me to keep apart. But Spotify IMHO is nowhere near the quality of lossless and I mainly use it for background music or on the go, but not for really listening to music. So, to your ears is Spotify as good as Lossless Qobuz Wimp or even homemade flac? Problem is for that its hard to do , I can order wimp hifi for a test month and probably compare wimp spotify and my own files , but still hard to keep track of volume differences, different masters etc and also other variations such a some more obscure artist migth not yet have his files upgraded to the best quality . But ive had god results with some spotify content not so good with other tracks from spotify ,not qualified by good ABX test in any way . I do use Triodes spotify plugin with volume normalisation off and you should also turn off LMS (7.8 7.9) default -5dB on webradio and streaming services to actually compare . Would be nice if Tidal/Wimp actually can deliver consistently god quality . I fear that file format as usual is the least interesting factor I still wonder what else might be going on and if someone have better info . Pippin added good info on the limiter in spotify Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: The point is that they don't sell better sound quality. The sell a fantasy or a lifestyle or whatever you want to call it. They target people who want to get the best but don't realize that what they're purchasing isn't any better. Actually, there are disadvantages like storage and bandwidth requirements which are scarce in mobile applications. So lossless streaming may in fact not be the best but a rather poor compromise. Lossless has its uses (I have an extensive collection of lossless files as well) but it doesn't make sense for streaming. Except in extremely rare instances of problem/killer samples, MP3 with a bitrate of roughly 192 kbps or higher is perceptually identical to lossless -- even for trained listeners. And, from what I understand, it's REALLY hard to find killer samples which continue to be non-transparent at very high bitrates such as 320 kbps. This is rubbish. There is a huge difference between Wimp 320 kbs and Wimp-hifi(flac) . You must have a system that can not reveal the differences. And if you are happy with that, then that is it for you. But when I only had the possibility to use Spotify 320 kbs streaming, I did not use it very must, because I got tired of listening to it After about 1/2 an hour, I always went back to my own FLAC files, which sounds much better. Even my wife can hear the difference. and she is really no audiophile But she is used to good sound Now with Wimp-hifi it is totally different, and I now can enjoy it very much. And I now hear a lot of new music, that I did not know. I love that.. So YES YES YES . Lossless streaming does really make sense.. Thank you for that.. Callesoroe Living room: Transporter, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan Vista speakers, AMPS(Icepower): Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma PLUS(PANELS), Acoustic Reality Ear TWO MKII(Bas) Kitchen: Transporter, Prodipe Pro 5 active bi-amp speakers. Bedroom: Receiver+UE boombox, Kids: Receiver+Active speakers, WIMP-HIFI flac streaming. callesoroe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22693 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
callesoroe wrote: This is rubbish. There is a huge difference between Wimp 320 kbs and Wimp-hifi(flac) . You must have a system that can not reveal the differences. And if you are happy with that, then that is it for you. But when I only had the possibility to use Spotify 320 kbs streaming, I did not use it very must, because I got tired of listening to it After about 1/2 an hour, I always went back to my own FLAC files, which sounds much better. Even my wife can hear the difference. and she is really no audiophile But she is used to good sound Now with Wimp-hifi it is totally different, and I now can enjoy it very much. And I now hear a lot of new music, that I did not know. I love that.. So YES YES YES . Lossless streaming does really make sense.. Thank you for that.. The point is that this should not be the case , -proper- lossy decoding to say 320kPs is indistinguishable from the real thing . Why There is a huge difference between Wimp 320 kbs and Wimp-hifi(flac) i dont know ? it should not be . Maybe some bodged volume normalization ... Btw did you try Archimagos mp3 blind test a while ago he did one of those before the 24bit test ? it was quite revealing . I would prefer another format than mp3 for streaming as there are3 some small issues with the mp3 decoder in squeezeboxes it is not always transparent , so you might need to set up the server to decode all lossy formats for best results . That said I will go wimp hifi if they adjust their price . I mostly use streaming for discovering new things or when travelling it does not replace a well curated lossles collection . A streaming service cant do that regardless of format . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Mnyb wrote: Edit spotify are using OGG rigth ? and WIMP AAC Wimp normal is 256 MP3 with squeezeboxes and FLAC as lossless in Wimp-hifi. You can get 320 AAC but as far as I know not for SB. Callesoroe Living room: Transporter, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan Vista speakers, AMPS(Icepower): Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma PLUS(PANELS), Acoustic Reality Ear TWO MKII(Bas) Kitchen: Transporter, Prodipe Pro 5 active bi-amp speakers. Bedroom: Receiver+UE boombox, Kids: Receiver+Active speakers, WIMP-HIFI flac streaming. callesoroe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22693 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
callesoroe wrote: Wimp normal is 256 MP3 with squeezeboxes and FLAC as lossless in Wimp-hifi. You can get 320 AAC but as far as I know not for SB. Ok 256kBps mp3 you cant get the 320k AAC on Squeezeboxes , that makes normal spotify for squeezebox better than non hifi wimp . I thought they where 320k in their highest setting just like spotify . I'm less sure that 256k mp3 served to a squeezebox is transparent have not tested that on myself and I probably need to decode on server to get the best result . But will LMS allow server decoding of Wimp streams ? For spotify this is no problem just use Triodes plugin . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
callesoroe wrote: This is rubbish. There is a huge difference between Wimp 320 kbs and Wimp-hifi(flac) . Are you basing this claim on double-blind tests? If not, your statement is audiophool folklore. Blind testing is required to rule out that perceived differences are due to the placebo effect. Your claim of an audible difference at 320 kbps contradicts what I've seen in scientific listening tests. (As a starting point, 'here ' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codec_listening_test)are references to a bunch of listening tests. Alternatively, check out the Listening Tests subforums on hydrogenaudio.org.) dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Well, I have been using Spotify for quite a wile now and mostly use it for streaming pop music. Which is fine, but I used Qobuz lossless or my own Flac collection for classical - and there really is quite a difference. I do not like classical music via Spotify, it is not horrible, but there is something missing and once I cange over to lossless streaming or flac, the missing bit is immediately back again. OGG via Spotify should sound nearly indistinguishable to lossless, but it definitely is not. Since I have more music on my NAS then I will ever be able to listen to... and still have loads!!! of CDs to rip I wonder about getting a lossless streaming service, but it really is wonderful for getting to know new stuff. So I might still jump on the wagon, Qobuz is really good, but not as many tracks as Wimp Hifi or Tidal (which is cheaper). Lossless Streaming services do sound better than lossy Streaming services - this is a completely different discussion than the lossy / non lossy debate. The lossy streaming services simply do nt sound as good as the should/ could. LMS 7.9.0 on Wandboard (SoA) Synology DS-410j NAS Squeezebox Touch, Squeezebox Boom, Squeezebox Radio Schiit - BIFROST Dac MOG, Spotify Premium iPhone: iPeng - iPad: Squeezepad, iPengHD Squeezemenicely's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41812 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Squeezemenicely wrote: Lossless Streaming services do sound better than lossy Streaming services - this is a completely different discussion than the lossy / non lossy debate. The lossy streaming services simply do nt sound as good as the should/ could. this is an important point, as I have seen other discussions, including in this thread, questioning whether some odd volume normalization scheme is being used by some of the streaming services which can even make the 320kbs files not transparent. That's certainly a variable that is not present in a typical comparison of high bitrate lossy vs lossless. *Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.8 Squeezelite *Spares:* several Touch, Radio, SB3 *Controllers:* iPhone4S iPad2 (iPeng7 Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: Are you basing this claim on double-blind tests? If not, your statement is audiophool folklore. Blind testing is required to rule out that perceived differences are due to the placebo effect. Your claim of an audible difference at 320 kbps contradicts what I've seen in scientific listening tests. (As a starting point, 'here ' (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codec_listening_test)are references to a bunch of listening tests. Alternatively, check out the Listening Tests subforums on hydrogenaudio.org.) Why not trust your own ears, instead of what others might have heard.. I can defanately hear the diffference on my system, and thats it for me Callesoroe Living room: Transporter, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan Vista speakers, AMPS(Icepower): Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma PLUS(PANELS), Acoustic Reality Ear TWO MKII(Bas) Kitchen: Transporter, Prodipe Pro 5 active bi-amp speakers. Bedroom: Receiver+UE boombox, Kids: Receiver+Active speakers, WIMP-HIFI flac streaming. callesoroe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22693 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
callesoroe wrote: Why not trust your own ears, instead of what others might have heard.. I can defanately hear the diffference on my system, and thats it for me Its a bit hard to do properly , I switched back and forth with spotify premium 320k ogg (better than wimp 256k mp3 for us squeezebox users ) many times to determine this for myself . A. Its not a blind test ,the mind works in such ways that is actually much more important than some think when evaluating subtle differences and due to the power of the mind some obvious diffrences even things you -think- are there and are quite convinced about , just vanish when do it blind. B. I dont rely know what spotify are doing with their sources . sometimes all is fine sometimes I hear differences or more correct -think- I hear them , but i cant verify as never do this blind . Sometimes the differences are to big to be explained by the lossy format which leads to C. What mastering is this its not always the same as my CD versions ? You can mitigate this by using more obscure artist or genres that certainly not master for iTunes and use their latest work , then there is less likely to be several versions out there . D. What ever else ,I can only control what my files are . so all of it can be just apples and oranges anyway . E. When using the smartmix plugin I never notice when i track is from my own collection or from spotify premium , so the diffrences if they are there, are subtle enough to only show in direct comparison *So my own conclusion , Spotify -seems -to me a bit inconsistent regarding sound quality , but I cant quantify or qualify .* Also It's definitely not enough testing and not done blind so I cant really tell the world that for example CD always sounds better than Spotify premium i dont have data to back such claim . Regarding listen to what others might have heard if some one does a really well done blind test with a lot of data . I'm prepared to take that over my own non blind tests as the psychological and placebo effects are inescapable no one is unaffected not even audiophiles . Maybe a Spotify premium vs CD ,community blind test :) that would be a thing , but I doubt you could reach an agreement with them , and I also doubt they would disclose their procedures to get the tracks into the system . I'm not totally cloth eared (even if years in heavy industry have damaged part of my hearing ) I'm generally not happy with soundquality of online music most web radio sounds horrible to me and I cant for the life of get why people would want tor route youtube to the hifi yuk ?! Spotify premium the service that I find useful enough to pay for and the price is not to much for my use. Some people compare the price with what it takes to buy this stuff and then even wimp hifi would be considered cheap but thats not fare you compare renting vs owning stuff and other differences . like that spotify has sadly adapted to use radio sanitized versions that and the parenteral advisory sticker as an atrocity against our culture imo . They have both versions but it can take some fudging to get the real version and its not simple to tell . Heck the public broadcasting company SR in Sweden does not use these versions if not forced to ,sometimes the record company does not give them the uncensored version so thats what we hear on the radio . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
callesoroe wrote: Why not trust your own ears, instead of what others might have heard.. I can defanately hear the diffference on my system, and thats it for me 1.) You cannot trust your ears. It is naive to think your hearing is the only factor affecting what you perceive to hear. If you do not control for other factors (such as your prior conscious or subconscious beliefs about which format sounds better), there is a big risk of drawing conclusions that are spurious. 2.) I do not merely take for granted what others have found in scientific studies, either. I have done many properly set-up double-blind listening tests between lossless source and lossy encode myself. To that end, I use foobar's ABX comparator component. It's fairly easy to use. You should try it for yourself. dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: 1.) You cannot trust your ears. It is naive to think your hearing is the only factor affecting what you perceive to hear. If you do not control for other factors (such as your prior conscious or subconscious beliefs about which format sounds better), there is a big risk of drawing conclusions that are spurious. 2.) I do not merely take for granted what others have found in scientific studies, either. I have done many properly set-up double-blind listening tests between lossless source and lossy encode myself. To that end, I use foobar's ABX comparator component. It's fairly easy to use. You should try it for yourself. Have you managed something similar with online sources ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
garym wrote: this is an important point, as I have seen other discussions, including in this thread, questioning whether some odd volume normalization scheme is being used by some of the streaming services which can even make the 320kbs files not transparent. That's certainly a variable that is not present in a typical comparison of high bitrate lossy vs lossless. This is a conspiracy theory. Why would companies such as Spotify deliberately degrade their sources? The bulk of the streaming business are consumers which are perfectly content with lossy. Why would you risk alienating your main customer base? After all, the manipulation would come out sooner or later (it's not rocket science to record and compare streams). I think you should provide evidence supporting your conspiracy theory. dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: This is a conspiracy theory. No, it's a misunderstanding. Spotify DOES have a feature to normalize volume across tracks and it DOES do additional dynamics compression degrading the dynamics of your track. It is, however, in the player software and it's an option you can turn off, Triode's plugin supports that, too. I believe Logitech's ignores it and never normalizes. Also, it's not true that mp3 at high bitrates and with good encoding sounds the same as lossless. This is usually true if you have normal or good hearing but if your hearing is impaired it does no longer hold. mp3 (actually all of the lossy codecs) work by removing lower frequencies that are masked out by higher frequencies by our ear (or more precisely: by the audio compression our ear seems to do when transmitting the signal to the brain). They do NOT restore these frequencies when decoding the music. However, if your hearing degrades and you can't hear the higher frequencies masking the lower ones anymore the difference becomes immediately obvious. You can easily test this by wearing earplugs (which also filter higher frequencies more than lower ones), you will usually easily detect the difference in an ABX test then. --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
dafiend wrote: No, but see my next post. I don't see why the big players in the business have the incentive to degrade the lossy audio they serve on purpose. Therefore, I'm focusing on debunking the myth that 320 kbps MP3 is audibly inferior to the lossless source. (I also feel the hypothesis they deliberately degrade the lossy tracks they serve is meant to be a red herring.) This is a conspiracy theory. Why would companies such as Spotify deliberately degrade their sources? The bulk of the streaming business are consumers which are perfectly content with lossy. Why would you risk alienating your main customer base? After all, the manipulation would come out sooner or later (it's not rocket science to record and compare streams). I think you should provide evidence supporting your conspiracy theory. That would be very hard , but historically not all contents was/is 320kBp it actually said so on spotify's own FAQ/forum but they removed that statement . Old files aggregated years ago can also come from inferior sources , they don't vet the stuff labels just upload whatever they want including up converted stuff . Who knows what system a record label has in place for providing streamers with stuff . In fact all streaming services are lazy there is no quality control that's up to the record labels . For a HIFI service and what wimp charges I would expect human curation and quality control and disclosure of the pedigree ( master ) of the source material , buts that not how it's done ,it's some automated service for the labels to upload to . But that can also be your own doing too spotify caches files locally , if you have playlist avaible offline for example ,but not only that but most spotify implementations including Triodes plugin allow for caching of recent content . So if you had flipped the quality setting up and down , you can still be with some inferior tracks . This behaviour is on purpose as people may switch quality quite often on mobile devices, if that cleared the cache it would trigger re syncing of playlists and maybe disrupt functionality or just create server load for spotify . I think it would be more proper to actually flush out the cache when people do this and just cope with the consequences of it . In the case of wimp hifi problems are eisier to spot , in the cases where their catalog is not fully replaced with flac files you simply get an mp3 or AAC file instead . The current status on spotify I don't know ,stream recording is not that easy on my headless Linux LMS server possibly I could install squeezelite on it and somehow redirect the output ( the server has no audio hardware ) , I've migth need to install a desktop client . No,I don't have tangible evidence which I'm sorry for . Maybe I should prepare something beforehand so it could document a case when I hear a problem track . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Btw you are supposed to help spotify with this they have a content team , you can report bad tracks . These are known issues that some tracks can be mangled by the uploader . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
pippin wrote: No, it's a misunderstanding. Spotify DOES have a feature to normalize volume across tracks and it DOES do additional dynamics compression degrading the dynamics of your track. It is, however, in the player software and it's an option you can turn off, Triode's plugin supports that, too. I believe Logitech's ignores it and never normalizes. Also, it's not true that mp3 at high bitrates and with good encoding sounds the same as lossless. This is usually true if you have normal or good hearing but if your hearing is impaired it does no longer hold. mp3 (actually all of the lossy codecs) work by removing lower frequencies that are masked out by higher frequencies by our ear (or more precisely: by the audio compression our ear seems to do when transmitting the signal to the brain). They do NOT restore these frequencies when decoding the music. However, if your hearing degrades and you can't hear the higher frequencies masking the lower ones anymore the difference becomes immediately obvious. You can easily test this by wearing earplugs (which also filter higher frequencies more than lower ones), you will usually easily detect the difference in an ABX test then. What i can gather from googling is that even if you disable the volume normalisation , Spotify stillactually enable a peak limiter ? This is needed to handle intersample overs when decoding the stream specifically on very hot modern masters . What they should do instead is just simply lower the output a bit in the decoding process . The current implementation can do things to the music . I've not seen much info on how the normal Wimp service or hifi service handle this . But wimp itself is fixated on thier hifi streaming at the moment and does flood the ether with info about that . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
castalla wrote: Who actually cares? I just couldn't be bothered to search through 25 m tracks for something I may or not like. Search Engines are a Beautiful thing!;) Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: I do like the idea that there is a streaming service that says that they will put Sound Quality as their number one priority. The point is that they don't sell better sound quality. The sell a fantasy or a lifestyle or whatever you want to call it. They target people who want to get the best but don't realize that what they're purchasing isn't any better. Actually, there are disadvantages like storage and bandwidth requirements which are scarce in mobile applications. So lossless streaming may in fact not be the best but a rather poor compromise. Lossless has its uses (I have an extensive collection of lossless files as well) but it doesn't make sense for streaming. Except in extremely rare instances of problem/killer samples, MP3 with a bitrate of roughly 192 kbps or higher is perceptually identical to lossless -- even for trained listeners. And, from what I understand, it's REALLY hard to find killer samples which continue to be non-transparent at very high bitrates such as 320 kbps. dafiend's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=60637 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Mnyb wrote: I have some misgivings about this idea . I do love my lossles flac files for archiving my own discs and local content and music bought elsewhere , Great lossless and free can be kept in pristine quality forever transcoded to new formats forever , my grandchildren can inherit the files. But for streaming it makes less sense . As you don#8217;t need to archive perfect copies you only listen to rented tracks in the moment OK ? [.remvoved to save space] I agree with Mnyb's points. I mostly buy CDs and rip to FLAC and like having my archive copies in FLAC. (by the way, I'd be happy to buy lossless downloads instead if more existed...I don't want to pay high prices for high-res versionsjust a good/secure CD quality lossless file priced at NO MORE than buying the CD, and preferably a bit less.) I currently use Spotify for streaming, and mostly for hearing things I might be interested in buying, or for listening to one off things I'm not interested in owning. The cost is not the issue for me (who knows how much I'm spending on streaming when I add up my monthly fees for spotify, hulu+, netflix, amazon prime, audible, etc.) The reason lossless streaming doesn't replace owning the music for me is the randomness of selection *and* the fact that albums are there one day and gone the next. Spotify has many milliions of tracks, but at least 1/3 of the time I'm looking for something, they don't have it. I'm sure I'm not the normal spotify customer of course (I have zero interest in whatever is hitting the charts currently unless I'm trying to entertain a 14 year old niece). Furthermore, it is frustrating to have saved an album in spotify only to find a month later that the album has been dropped from Spotify's library for whatever reason. So for these two reasons, music I want to listen to more than, say twice, I will want to own in some format. *Location 1:* VortexBox 4TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VBA 3TB (2.3) LMS 7.8 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.8 Squeezelite *Spares:* several Touch, Radio, SB3 *Controllers:* iPhone4S iPad2 (iPeng7 Squeezepad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.8 on Win7(64) laptop *Files:* ripping: dbpoweramp FLAC; post-rip: mp3tag, PerfectTunes; Streaming: Spotify garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Mnyb wrote: It is a proven fact (no ifs and buts about it its tested to death) that is extremely unlikely that a human can distinguish a good lossy decoding say 320kBps lame encoded mp3 from the lossles source . So why stream lossles ? If you want to see the 'Flames Fly'; Just post this on an Audio Forum, such as Audio Asylum on the PC Audio Forum. -- There are Legions of People that would disagree vehemently with this Statement. As for myself, I am keeping an open mind. And for a measly extra $10 a month, I am certainly willing to subscribe to Tidal. You can cancel at any time! What continually amazes me is the number of people that pay over $100 a month for a smart (Stupid) phone! - I have a Samsung Tablet that I paid $150 for, it does not come with a monthly bill and I can find WiFi almost anywhere! I am Financially Independent and have a lot of great money saving ideas. Saving $10 a month on Tidal would not be one of them however!! Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: What continually amazes me is the number of people that pay over $100 a month for a smart (Stupid) phone! Seriously? If you're under 40, everyone you know has one. EVERYONE. Not having a smartphone would be like not owning shoes or not having a TV back in 1970. Music streaming today is a commodity. Pandora with ads is free. Pandora One is *$4.99* per month. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
JJZolx wrote: Seriously? If you're under 40, everyone you know has one. EVERYONE. Not having a smartphone would be like not owning shoes or not having a TV back in 1970. Music streaming today is a commodity. Pandora with ads is free. Pandora One is *$4.99* per month. Yup, you're right! - And they are working 'For the Man', and I am Financially Independent and spending the Winters in the Bahamas. I Skype them for Free on my Tablet, while I'm sipping a cool one on my Lanai :cool: Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
JJZolx wrote: ...wooosh... You've been raving about your 320 kbps MOG and Spotify streaming for years and have even claimed that you now lsten to little else. So when did you suddenly become an audiophile? JJZolx, how can you by any possible stretch of the imagination work out that a choice of music of 25,000,000 tracks at a resolution of 16/44.1 is unfairly priced at $20.00 per month? As long as one listens to it, and has the network speed capable of avoiding buffering etc, there is surely no contest. One CD at $20.00 per month. 12 CDs per year. Over 40 years, 480 CDs, so maybe at a generous 15 tacks per CD you have bought 7,200 tracks. For exactly the same money you could have 25,000,000 tracks at the same resolution on tap. Please explain how that is not a good deal. Squeezebox Classic:2; Duet: 1; Boom:1; Touch:1; Wandboard Quad; Squeezelite. Server: Wandboard Quad with SoA; Raspberry Pi/Wolfson Card with Squeezeplug 7.06; (backup:Win 8 Pro 64 bit, Sheevaplug with Squeezeplug); iPeng, iPeng for Ipad, Orange Squeeze, Squeezepad, LMS Version: Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 kesey's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10786 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
kesey wrote: JJZolx, how can you by any possible stretch of the imagination work out that a choice of music of 25,000,000 tracks at a resolution of 16/44.1 is unfairly priced at $20.00 per month? As long as one listens to it, and has the network speed capable of avoiding buffering etc, there is surely no contest. One CD at $20.00 per month. 12 CDs per year. Over 40 years, 480 CDs, so maybe at a generous 15 tacks per CD you have bought 7,200 tracks. For exactly the same money you could have 25,000,000 tracks at the same resolution on tap. Please explain how that is not a good deal. In Denmark the price for Wimp-hifi is 34 $, and I still think it is very cheap. :) Callesoroe Living room: Transporter, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan Vista speakers, AMPS(Icepower): Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma PLUS(PANELS), Acoustic Reality Ear TWO MKII(Bas) Kitchen: Transporter, Prodipe Pro 5 active bi-amp speakers. Bedroom: Receiver+UE boombox, Kids: Receiver+Active speakers, WIMP-HIFI flac streaming. callesoroe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22693 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
I have some misgivings about this idea . I do love my lossles flac files for archiving my own discs and local content and music bought elsewhere , Great lossless and free can be kept in pristine quality forever transcoded to new formats forever , my grandchildren can inherit the files. But for streaming it makes less sense . As you dont need to archive perfect copies you only listen to rented tracks in the moment OK ? It is a proven fact (no ifs and buts about it its tested to death) that is extremely unlikely that a human can distinguish a good lossy decoding say 320kBps lame encoded mp3 from the lossles source . So why stream lossles ? A suspicion , I've had varied results in the past with lossy from a -streaming service- in this case spotify premium but mostly they sound very good to me but not always. But they may not make the best effort here . So even if a lossy streaming service could be sonically transparent they may not always be that ? Lack of quality control some obscure works may not even be in the advertised high bitrate , bad decoder settings at their end to save cpu power who knows why. Some services even introduce weird volume levelling schemes that does not help either . Spotify does that , I dont know if it can be turned of in any normal app , you can with triodes spotify app btw (which is very good imo ) . Then they makes this new service that cost 2 or 3 times more , that basically offers what they already should be delivering in their normal service :/ *sigh* Namely if they get their act together and take more care with the decoding offer sensible settings re volume normalisation and use the replaygain system instead of mangling the audio, their normal service would be sonically transparent to human listeners without needing to be lossles ! But now all incentive to actually improve on the lossy services have gone out of the window when the fate based customers are prepared to fork out even more money for what they already should have, great (not) Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Mnyb wrote: It is a proven fact (no ifs and buts about it its tested to death) that is extremely unlikely that a human can distinguish a good lossy decoding say 320kBps lame encoded mp3 from the lossles source . So why stream lossles ? I was mocked in this very thread about enjoying 320kbps, so it would seem that JJZolx would have no trouble differentiating between 320kbps and lossless. I think 320kbps sounds great and I would not bet that I could pick out the difference between that and lossless. I have tried on my own Library of Lossless vs. Spotify and MOG recordings. Will lossless streaming sound better to me? I don't know, but for an extra $10 I'm willing to take the chance. Then there is the whole topic of DSD Audio. I have done tests myself and I cannot hear a difference. So there are probably limits, I have no idea what there are. I do like the idea that there is a streaming service that says that they will put Sound Quality as their number one priority. A service like that is 'talking my language' and will get my business. Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: I was mocked in this very thread about enjoying 320kbps, so it would seem that JJZolx would have no trouble differentiating between 320kbps and lossless. I think 320kbps sounds great and I would not bet that I could pick out the difference between that and lossless. I have tried on my own Library of Lossless vs. Spotify and MOG recordings. Will lossless streaming sound better to me? I don't know, but for an extra $10 I'm willing to take the chance. Then there is the whole topic of DSD Audio. I have done tests myself and I cannot hear a difference. So there are probably limits, I have no idea what there are. I do like the idea that there is a streaming service that says that they will put Sound Quality as their number one priority. A service like that is 'talking my language' and will get my business. Yes they would get my business too but not for more money ,They could easily make the sound quality a non issue besides what the recordings actually sounds like ,heck they could fix that to by picking a good master . But now they repacking their service for the discerning listener ? It s actually a lot like the DSD craze . It's probably marketing 101 , If you decide to sell good quality how to reach your market ? We made some tweaks and been more careful, enjoy. Would not sell much . But if you instead launch a whole new service or a new -format- wow now where talking ,this is an easier sell . The classic remastered that sold so many CD's is dead for the discerning listener because they usually sound worse , some marketing dude found out that some old stuff was not compressed to death yet, lets fix that :) My missgivings are about about piggybacking on known audio myths to sell more . We dont need new formats we need better recordings and undestroyed masters ,format is irrelevant . We also need streaming services to care about audio , it wont cost them anything to do so really . Then how do you comunicate that to the market that you now care for sound quality . A new service in new format convince some customers but is it really needed ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: I think 320kbps sounds great and I would not bet that I could pick out the difference between that and lossless. And yet you claim that you'll gladly pay 2 to 4 times the monthly cost for a lossless version of what you already listen to. Nothing about this makes any sense to me. All I'm saying is that $20 per month is more than I'm willing to pay for a streaming music service. ANY streaming service. Obviously, you can pay whatever you like. I'm also saying that this service is going to fail miserably in the US at that price point. At -$5 per month- it would have a tough time making headway against Pandora. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
JJZolx wrote: And yet you claim that you'll gladly pay 2 to 4 times the monthly cost for a lossless version of what you already listen to. Nothing about this makes any sense to me. All I'm saying is that $20 per month is more than I'm willing to pay for a streaming music service. ANY streaming service. Obviously, you can pay whatever you like. I'm also saying that this service is going to fail miserably in the US at that price point. At -$5 per month- it would have a tough time making headway against Pandora. Who actually cares? I just couldn't be bothered to search thorough 25 m tracks for something I may or not like. Touch - Muse M50 EX TPA3123 T-Amp Mini - Acoustics Q10 speakers Logitech Radio Logitech UE Smart Radio Raspberry Pi + Squeezeplug LMS + Squeezelite - Logitech Mini Boombox speaker (mothballed) Cubieboard + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker O2 Joggler + SqpOS + Aune X2 T-amp + Mordaunt Short ms-3.40 speakers IBOX + Debian 7 + LMS 7.8.1 + Squeezelite - Logitech Mini Boombox speaker - Soundwave SW100 bluetooth speaker castalla's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15624 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
castalla wrote: Who actually cares? Streaming services are great, at the right price. I just couldn't be bothered to search through 25 m tracks for something I may or not like. There's a (big) difference between searching through 25M tracks and browsing 25M tracks. Sounds like you would feel overwhelmed by browsing such a large library. That's understandable. But not many people just randomly browse through such the library. On the other hand, search for an album that you've heard of, but don't own, and maybe never even seen ... and you find it in the vast library and can listen to it. That's pretty damned awesome. Search for a band who you just discovered on YouTube and find 8 albums that they've released. Hear a song on the radio by someone you never heard of and find it and other tracks by the same artist. What's not to like? But the I'd bet that most of the listening to streaming services is done in some sort of random, radio station, smart or curated playlist mode. Certainly with Pandora it is, since this is pretty much its only mode. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
JJZolx wrote: And yet you claim that you'll gladly pay 2 to 4 times the monthly cost for a lossless version of what you already listen to. Nothing about this makes any sense to me. All I'm saying is that $20 per month is more than I'm willing to pay for a streaming music service. ANY streaming service. Obviously, you can pay whatever you like. I'm also saying that this service is going to fail miserably in the US at that price point. At -$5 per month- it would have a tough time making headway against Pandora. It's an extra $10 bucks over Spotify. I lose that much in the couch each month.:cool: Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
[SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Service has 25 Million tracks of Audio in FLAC Lossless. And 75,000 HD Music Videos !! Should be available by this Fall. $20 a month. I wonder if the Squeezebox touch will Be able to stream it. Maybe Triode Knows? 'TIDAL' (http://lnc.hr/evyda) Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: Service has 25 Million tracks of Audio in FLAC Lossless. And 75,000 HD Music Videos !! Should be available by this Fall. $20 a month. I wonder if the Squeezebox touch will Be able to stream it. Maybe Triode Knows? 'TIDAL' (http://lnc.hr/evyda) It is US version of Wimp. Hope for you that Michael can get it to Work on SB like Wimp. Because Wimp-hifi is awsome :) Callesoroe Living room: Transporter, Tact RCS 2.2X digital preamp, Martin Logan Vista speakers, AMPS(Icepower): Acoustic Reality Ear Enigma PLUS(PANELS), Acoustic Reality Ear TWO MKII(Bas) Kitchen: Transporter, Prodipe Pro 5 active bi-amp speakers. Bedroom: Receiver+UE boombox, Kids: Receiver+Active speakers, WIMP-HIFI flac streaming. callesoroe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=22693 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Oh, I'm pretty confident there will be a solution for SB users ;) --- learn more about iPeng, the iPhone and iPad remote for the Squeezebox and Logitech UE Smart Radio as well as iPeng Party, the free Party-App, at penguinlovesmusic.com *New: iPeng 8, the Universal App for iOS 7 and iOS 8* pippin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13777 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
$20.00 per month? Pass. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
JJZolx wrote: $20.00 per month? Pass. For a 25 Million Track Library? And 75,000 HD Videos. A bargain to be Sure for the Price of 1 or 2 CDs per month? Or am I missing something? Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Then how about $100 per month? By your logic, that too would be a huge bargain. No thanks. JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
JJZolx wrote: Then how about $100 per month? By your logic, that too would be a huge bargain. No thanks. It's going to be a very difficult sale to consumers in the US, with the success of Pandora and the lower pricing of a half-dozen competing services. Few people care enough about having better than 320kbsp MP3 quality, especially if it means paying two to four times the monthly price. Well, I don't don't know where your $100 a month came from. It isn't that price, so why are you talking about it? But for $20 a month for an audiophile like myself it is a Huge Bargain. Maybe the masses won't buy in... Dunno? But I see people everyday that pay $100 a month for junk TV channels. I watch Over the Air TV for Free and have more TV than I can Stand. There are boatloads of people that spend over $100 a month on their phones. I am retired and talking on the phone is one thing I am glad I don't have to do anymore. I have a cell phone for emergencies that I pay on average about $10 a year. So, if you are not an audiophile and don't appreciate a FLAC Lossless Library of 25 Million tracks and think that $20 a month is too much, I can understand that entirely. What I don't understand is what are you doing on this forum then:confused: Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Cut-Throat wrote: Well, I don't don't know where your $100 a month came from. It isn't that price, so why are you talking about it? ...wooosh... But for $20 a month for an audiophile like myself it is a Huge Bargain. You've been raving about your 320 kbps MOG and Spotify streaming for years and have even claimed that you now lsten to little else. So when did you suddenly become an audiophile? JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
callesoroe wrote: It is US version of Wimp. Hope for you that Michael can get it to Work on SB like Wimp. Because Wimp-hifi is awsome :) Talking of WiMP: Is there a possibility to use WiMP from Switzerland? Or is it just available in Scandinavia, Poland, and Germany? I browsed the catalogue and must admit, I was surprised--considering my, ehm, exotic taste. - *ASRock Ion 330* (home office) running Xubuntu 14.04.1 LTS + LMS 7.9, all music streamed as FLAC Local Player Behringer MS 40 active nearfield monitors via toslink - *Boom* (master bedroom), *Radio* (master bathroom), *Archos 35 Home Connect* + SqueezePlayer (guest bathroom) - *Reson PR 80s* as UPnP client (living room) Parasound DAC 1500 vintage Wega Modul 42V amp (with 42E equalizer, 42T tape deck, and Thorens TD 160 Mk II turntable) Quadral Vulkan Mk II speakers - *Duet* + *Radio* in storage wortgefecht's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63295 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
JJZolx wrote: ...wooosh... You've been raving about your 320 kbps MOG and Spotify streaming for years and have even claimed that you now lsten to little else. So when did you suddenly become an audiophile? Geez Man, why the hostility. Yes, I love MOG and Spotify and the 320 kpbs sounds pretty good. Is it a big stretch to want something better for $20 a month? And yes I suddenly became and Audiophile 40 Years ago. I have Oris Horns and SET amps - 45, 2A3 and 300B amps. Most of which I build myself. The MP3 320 kbps sounds better on my system than most any system I hear at RMAF on Vinyl. A lot of the 320kpbs recordings sound better than a lot of Lossless recordings. I know audiophiles that spend $thousands on Cables. We are only talking $20 a month here. This is what I am having a hard time understanding. You live in Colorado and have seen the prices at RMAF Right? Cut-Throat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102351 ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
Re: [SlimDevices: Plugins] Great New Music Streamer Coming from Norway to the U.S. = Tidal
Talking of WiMP: Is there a possibility to use WiMP from Switzerland? Or is it just available in Scandinavia, Poland, and Germany? It's not available in Switzerland. -- Michael ___ plugins mailing list plugins@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/plugins
