Re: Crazy Cajun (was Sir Doug Sahm: Alt.)
On Sun, 11 Apr 1999, Joe Gracey wrote: This is an essay I can't do justice to now, but Huey and his kind were great inspiration to me and I long for the days of freewheeling record making and real radio programmers in charge of their own playlists. I hope that era returns soon so that I can rampage across the land myself. I'll vote for that (not knowing whether a Gracey rampage might be too dangerous to the locals). Sigh. I try not to get too sentimental for olden days but it's hard not to wish for such things. Too many of my favorite records are from those days when music was locally owned and made as were the records and the radio, when saying "that's a band from Memphis" would have meant something. And too many of my other favorite records seem to be trying to recapture the feel of the music of those times. Ah well. Will Miner Denver, CO
A little more about Ranchera music
I cant remember who it was who was asking about Ranchera music a week or so ago. I put in a query with a friend of mine who's a journalist down in Mexico City and here's what he had to say: - Jose Alfredo Jimenez is the Shakespeare of Ranchera music, author of such classics as "Caminos de Guanajuato," with the refrain "la vida no vale nada." I think he's the guy I gave you a tape of. Javier Solis, Vicente Fernandez, Charro Avitia Jorge Negrete, Chavela Vargas, are some other names that come to mind. --- I believe that some of these are more current than those collected on the Arhoolie discs. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Mandy Barnett's I've Got A Right To Cry
Dr. Dave Purcell wrote: No, I'm not a weasel, I got a promo copy used, Well, per all that ranting last week about bootlegs and lost royalties, I think you owe Ms. Barnett some dough. If you dont get a check in the mail today your credentials on this list are going to go wayy down the toilet. Seriously, though, I'm jealous at everyone who's got this. I've been looking for her first record for a year and nobody here in Denver seems interested in stocking it. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Go Getters
On Wed, 31 Mar 1999, Peter Sandberg wrote: SWEDISH ROCKABILLY TRIO "The GO GETTERS" INVITES YA´LL TO A NIGHT OF SINFULL MUSIC AND NAUGHTY RHYTHM APRIL 10 THE "IVY ROOM" ALBANY IN THE EVENING Hey, the Ivy Room is a great dive bar. It seems like an especially right place for a Swedish rockabilly trio. I once saw Bill Kirchen there and it was only $2 cover and it was still only $2.50 for a pint of Anchor Steam. I felt bad for him -- how could he make any money in a place like that? -- but it's a nice cozy room for the people who come to listen or dance. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Better Live?
Steve Gardner wrote: Bands where their best album is the live one: You left out the greatest of all: The Allman Brothers (Live at the Fillmore East). An odd one is Robert Earl Keen, who I have always loved live. Something is missing on his studio records, but, oddly enough, I like his live records even less. Perhaps this difference also has to do with the fact that most studio recordings you hear are actually of a song that was never actually played. Unless the band recorded live with no overdubs the version you hear of a song on a studio album never actually happened. You'd have to be a pretty damn good band to record that way and have the same, or more, energy than a live performance. I'd rather have an occasional flub, or a sour note, and have it be real. I've been thinking about this since Joe mentioned the other day that wrong notes are grating. I find that I dont mind goofs in studio records that have the live sound. I'm thinking of old Creedence Clearwater Revival records, for example, which are great records and are full of mistakes. You dont hear many of those in country music records after 1960, so maybe this is something more tolerable in rock or old-time music. Last night we were listening to Willie Nelson's spirit. Once you crank up that record a little (on our stereo anyway) it has a wonderful in-your-livingroom sort of feel. I have a feeling that one crisp, clear screwup in the middle of one of those songs would ruin the entire record. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Ranchera?
On Sun, 28 Mar 1999, Robin D. Laws wrote: Anybody out there know anything about ranchera, or other styles of traditional Mexican music? Key figures? Recommended recordings? Back in vinyl days, Arhoolie Records had done a lot of compilations of classic old ranchera music, as well as nortena and other around- and south-of-the-border styles. (I've got some of the nortena stuff.) I dont know how this stuff may have been repackaged for CD (if it's been reissued). That would be one alley I'd try. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: boot me baby, but don't sell it
Joe Gracey wrote: One last thought. Even though tape trading may be harmless and not for profit, there is still something there that bugs me. All I have to sell is my music. If my music goes around endlessly for free, am I not being deprived of compensation for what I do? I am not angry or blustering about this, just slightly confused by it. Given that radio is now a complete failure at exposing new or more marginal artists, trading tapes around is one of the few ways people have to share music with others. CD stores can also help in this and let you listen to a CD before you decide to buy it. But most CD stores won't let you sample things and a lot of CD buyers are squeamish about buying a CD with an opened wrapper, as if you were sharing used needles or something. At one point I regularly compiled my latest favorites on tapes and sent them to my friends. People got to hear a lot of music they wouldnt have otherwise, and in the end bought a lot of CDs they never would have bought. Unless a record is overhyped and sucks, I think sharing music leads to more sales rather than fewer, because people will buy things that they would probably not have risked forking over the money for. While I can understand Joe's wanting to control what of his performances get released, I think that tape trading (when it doesnt involve bootlegging) is ultimately better for the music world. I'm not quite sure what I think about distributing tapes of live shows. Again, Joe's objections make sense. But on the other hand I think that at the moment of performing, one is, in a sense, releasing the music. One certainly does to all ears who are there listening. There's not a whole lot of control you can exercise at that point if things are coming out right. I'm not sure that taping makes that any worse. And if taping has those side benefits that Bob mentioned -- that one might be able to hear a performance by an artist who he has not been able to see -- then I find it hard to blankly criticize it. (The gravity of this problem is particularly acute now that I'm here in Denver, which most touring bands seem to keep south of when they head out to the West Coast.) Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Clip-Wacos Saturday night
On Friday some geek named Renshaw wrote: At a time when alt.country bands increasingly lean toward tepid vocals, languid playing, and gentle singer-songwriterish sentiments, a band like the Waco boys is a welcome blast of whiskey-tinged fresh air. Yawn. I dont know if you've ever stood downwind from a drunk but "welcome blast" is not likely what you'd be thinking about his breath. Although that's maybe a good analogy for a band who does a Joe Strummer-ish "Wreck on the Highway." I think I might opt for a tepid and gentle version myself. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: What are the kids listening to today?
On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Dave Purcell wrote: Exactly. The Husker stuff works quite well stripped down to the basics ... snip ... I used to love playing stuff like Don't Want To Know If You Are Lonely. I always have thought that if a song is a great song it should still work on just a bare acoustic guitar. The only exceptions are songs that are really better done on a bare acoustic piano. The Huskers were once upon a time some pretty good songwriters, and that's why I'd bet you could play a Huskers song in the middle of songs by Dylan, Woody, Neil Young and so on and if you didnt know the song you'd never guess. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: What are the kids listening to today?
On Fri, 26 Mar 1999, Carl Abraham Zimring wrote: Dunno that the "if a song is a great song it should still work on just a bare acoustic guitar" rule is a universal one, though I agree with it much of the time. Aside from LL Cool J's amazing acoustic rendition of "Mama Said Knock You Out", there aren't a whole lot of hiphop songs that would sound good on acoustic guitar. Well, and I did mean to make a distinction between "a great song" and "a great record." A lot of great records are made with what are otherwise weak songs or songs not at all. Probably a lot of hip-hop would fall into that category because the medium isnt based around songs so much as a kind of aural graffiti art. Still, it works a lot of times you wouldnt expect. For example, I have a CD single of the Fugees' "Vocab," which consists of about six versions of the song, one of which is acoustic; that's the best version, I think. I can also imagine getting away with bluesy versions of "Fight the Power" or "The Message," to name a couple off the top of my head. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Clip: Flushed with Success(LONG)
Those poor folks in the music business ... As I read that article George posted, I kept wondering, is it 1977 all over again? I dont know much about the economics of the country labels of the time, but I do remember what was going on in the rawk world. Back in the later 70s, labels were shrinking their rosters, mostly down to groups who all sounded the same or who sucked. This was the period in which the great minds of the music biz brought you folks like Toto, and in which a band like Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers had a hell of a time getting signed and got no label support. The excuse was that it was just far too expensive to record and promote and tour a band that couldnt sell less than 500,000 units. The industry was only geared to serve bands like The Eagles and Fleetwood Mac, who could spend several years and several million dollars recording their records, not to mention a 20-megaton stage and laser show that would have to be dragged around the country, but all of that was OK because they were expected to sell 10 zillion albums. Not only do the people who drag the industry down into these sewers have absolutely no taste for good music, they also have no good sense. Then in 1979, along came The Police, who recorded an album for $6,000 that sold pretty well and went touring the states without the huge stage show -- they managed with a couple of old vans. And while they only played small clubs, they actually made a profit doing it, a bigger profit than one of those megamonster bands, the Eagles or the 'Mac, did that year (I fergit which). And smart folks (who had some actual taste) started churning out records on their own independent labels and making some good money at it. Does anyone else find it ironic that the industry is crying tales of woe at a time when there is an awful lot of great music coming out? I think that in the last couple of years we've reaped a fine crop, despite the fact that only a few of those records have sold a good deal. Maybe this oughta tell us something about whether a commodity as varied and elusive and magical as good music is the kind of thing we can capture and package and mass produce in endless units like Ford pickups or bars of soap. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: ProTools illumination
Thanks for the illumination and enlightenment about ProTools, Joe. It all makes sense now. Joe also wrote: No modern artist will allow lousy performances out of the studio unless being perverse. No, but 30 years ago you had all kinds of records coming out with mistakes in them and who cared? -- because they were damned fine records. Off the top of my head I'm thinking of old blues or rock and roll examples -- like early Beatles records or Creedence Clearwater Revival records or Howlin Wolf records -- so maybe this is one of those things that was once forgiven in rock or blues but would never have been tolerated in country, for example. But it may also be because those Floyd Tillman or Lefty Frizzell or whichever records arent coming to mind. What you have on the records I'm thinking of are things like a blown guitar lick here, a warbled vocal harmony there. As Pete Townshend pointed out in "The Kids Are Alright," if you take those old Beatles records -- where the vocals were on one channel and the instruments on the other -- and you turn off the instrumental channel, the harmonies are sometimes "flippin' lousy." These problems arent bad enough to throw away the track, but you can hear them if you're listening. On the other hand, I will forgive these records any day because the overall sound and feel is so good, so live, unlike a lot of what comes out these days where you can tell the folks in the band may have never even met each other. If ProTools helps in making those live-sounding records then, hey, I wont worry about it. Will Miner Denver, CO
Alt-country is too confining [was: Tweedy ad nauseum]
These comments from reviewers that alt-country is "confining" are really just a secret greeting to identify themselves as part of the Brotherhood of People Who Hate Twang (BOPWHT), which was originally founded in New York but which now has chapters anywhere. Not only is the alt-country crowd here on P2 an eclectic bunch, but most of the people who have been herded together under the "alt-country" banner have been pretty eclectic themselves. The idea that there are strong limits here is absurd. But what *is* meant is that the reviewer doesnt really like country instruments or country songs or country stylings and so they might wish that one of these bands that they sorta like would break out of the confines and get less country. Y'know, like they should do something daring and original, like trying to sound like an "alternative" or Modern Rock band. And of course those styles arent confining at all. Rock critics are idiots when it comes to this stuff. And Tweedy has been whining ever since he got to front his own band but still felt like he was in Jay Farrar's shadow. Who cares. Will Miner Denver, CO
RE: Tweedy @ Salon
On Wed, 17 Mar 1999, Matt Benz wrote: Now he has a big ELO pop music spectacular, which is fine, but for him to express bewilderment that folks are surprised and maybe not thrilled with such sudden musical changes is funny. It is a radical jump from one album to the next. People who like the Neil Young sound don't rush out and embrace his rockabilly big band techno albums either. I'd say Jerry Curry is the odd fan out on this one. Most people, if they latch onto an artist because they really like a record, will probably hope that the next record has a lot of the same good qualities. That doesnt have to mean the same sound, but whatever got your wheels spinning you hope spins 'em on the next disc. Any band that leaps around from record to record has to assume they will disappoint a lot of people. Neil Young made a lot of crappy records in the 80s, and at least he didnt care. It's pretty obvious that Tweedy isnt so self-confident on that. Given the pointlessness of so many of the songs on "Being There," with lyrics that sound at times like he'll throw in any word that rhymes, and his inability to settle on a sound gives me the impression that he's just making records to make records. He's not half bad at it either, but the stuff aint substantial enough to justify all this philosophizing and defensiveness on his part or any of his critic fans. Needless to say I'm not curious about this new record. Hey, I liked ELO too, but by the end of the 70s enough was enough. He's 20 years too late. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Fix-it-in-the-mix price drop
On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Jon Weisberger wrote: Now you, too, can "correct the pitch of the most tone-deaf singers and build lush multi-voice harmonies with a click of the mouse" for less than $400. I hadnt heard of this technology, although it isnt surprising. So, is this something that's regularly used commercially? Are we approaching the days when everyone is going to be Milli Vanilli? Will we swoon over gorgeous voices like those of Lucinda Williams or Kelly Willis only to find out, when we see them live, that they cant sing anything like they sound on their records? Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: John Prine news
On Mon, 15 Mar 1999, Jack Copeland wrote: Meanwhile, Prine has begun recording "In Spite Of Ourselves," a duets album of classic country material due in late summer on Oh Boy Records. Among those joining Prine on the album are Iris DeMent, Lucinda Williams, Nanci Griffith, and Connie Smith. Now that is right up my alley. If all my favorite big-tent alt-country acts spent the next year recording duets of classic country material, I would not complain at all. I believe we'd have a bumper alt-country crop that year. Will Miner Denver, CO
RE: dreaded artist of the decade (plus Rushmore)
On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Ph. Barnard wrote: Btw, Jon, I must confess I'm hearing more and more mainstream Nashville cuts that strike me as good, respectable stuff these days. This must be make-nice week or something. First, we're kissing and making up with all of the Tupelo fans, and now we're going to play kissy-face with Jon. Is this so that everyone will get along at SXSW? Will Miner Denver, CO
RE: dreaded artist of the decade (plus Rushmore)
On Fri, 12 Mar 1999, Ph. Barnard wrote: So Will, are you gonna be in Austin for the kissy-face convention?? Nah, I dont do that summer of love kinda stuff. I'm staying home for the kickboxing tournament. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Bramletts
On Thu, 11 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: She also punched Elvis Costello in a bar somewhere in Ohio for calling Ray Charles a blind ignorant nigger. Glad Deb mentioned this. Even if she'd never been a great single I'd always think the best of her for having done that. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Bramletts
On Thu, 11 Mar 1999, Terry A. Smith wrote: She also punched Elvis Costello in a bar somewhere in Ohio for calling Ray Charles a blind ignorant nigger. I remember hearing this story 10 or 15 years ago; I think the town was Columbus, but I could be mistaken. Try 20 years ago, as I recall. I think it was the piss-you-in-the-face tour he did for "Armed Forces" back in 1979. He was doing everything he could think of to be an asshole on that tour, including playing a 45 minute set from start to finish for which people had paid $15 or $20. Just reveling in that rock n roll feeling of which we're all so enamored. There were a lot of people who were with Bonnie in spirit when she punched him. Will Miner Denver, CO
About all this Todd Larson whoop-dee-do
I'm with Todd and I dont want anybody runnin' down UT. But I dont really think that was what Cheryl was up to. As she said during Neal's Eradication Game a few weeks ago, she doesnt really have the kill instinct for anyone but rock critics. I think the problem is the overhype and the fans who get caught in the middle of it, NOT the supposed snobbishness or dustiness of some of the more learned traditionalists. Most of the problem is with the dimwit rock press. But there have also been many times since I've been on this list (about three and a half years) folks have jumped into debates and, with all of the politeness and finesse of Matt Cook, insisted things like "Uncle Tupelo started alt-country!" or "Uncle Tupelo was the first to mix punk and country!" or "Uncle Tupelo was more true to *real* country than mainstream country music!" All of which are flat-out wrong. (If this seems exaggerated, look at the quote about Hank Williams on the bank of the second Bloodshot alt-country sampler, which is nothing short of obnoxious and absurd, particularly given what's on the disc.) I dont think that correcting misinformation like that implies any disrespect for either Uncle Tupelo or the people who like them. (Which would be the camp I'm in.) I dont think having someone admit that they dont much like Uncle Tupelo -- and I think most of those people have been pretty respectful in the way they've said so -- implies such disrespect either. Personally, I dont know why anyone would give a rat's ass if someone else didnt like your favorite band. If they're your favorite, that's all you need to know, isnt it? Going on in this vein Jim wrote: Also, Terry, you were on record as saying that (I am paraphrasing) all UT started was a bunch of former rock/punkers starting to twang-it-up which has made it harder for you to seperate the wheat from the chaff, etc. And this statement could easily be construed as aggresiveness towards the UT fan, which flies in the face of your statements above. And I wonder why Jim thinks this says anything about a UT fan at all. When I first joined this list there was often a lot of hype about this or that new record in the UT/Son Volt/Wilco vein and most of them were disappointing. They didnt have that country feel that I heard in UT (and which other people, like Jon W., dont hear). It was more like alternative rock with a banjo thrown in. It's sorta like the Damnations TX, who I also like a lot. Their record is a very country *sounding* record, but in terms of the songs, the lyrics, the sensibility, it isnt very country at all. If you come from a rock background and you like countryish rock, that's probably sufficient. But if you come from a more country orientation, you might well get through track 13 wondering where the country was. And of course that tends to provoke protests that "This isnt country!" And off we go. I'm not suggesting that what people should do now is go sit in their corners and play nice. I think this is just the nature of the beast of having people from such different backgrounds at the table. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: bad news concerning George Jones]
On Mon, 8 Mar 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It was mean, we all make mistakes don't we? Yeah, there's a little Ryan Adams in all of us, aint there. What I hope people get from this is DONT TALK ON YOUR DAMNED CELLPHONES WHILE YOU'RE DRIVING. Studies show that people who cant hang up while they drive drive as badly as a drunk driver. I've known too many people who've had their cars totaled by dimwits who couldnt be alone with themselves in a car for a few minutes. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: A Question [Extremely LONG]
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Joe Gracey wrote: In 1971 we started looking for a name for it and the best we could do was "Progressive Country", which was decent enough but somehow unsatisfying. Gee, right around that same time people were looking for a name for the kind of overworked poppyclassicojazzrock hodgepodge played by people like Yes and ELP and they came up with the name "progressive rock." The idea of there being any link between these two, even if only by an adjective, gives me the heebie jeebies. Will Miner Denver, CO (ducking, in case Curry is anywhere nearby)
Re: A progressive Question [Extremely LONG]
On Sun, 7 Mar 1999, Barry Mazor wrote: Part of me still feels we were better off with the 2 minutes 8 seconds, and I say this as a known Dylan fan. Absolutely. Removing the time barrier has made people lazy. Now you get songs that start with sixteen bars of empty chord changes, extra verses that add nothing, bridges inserted just to have a bridge, endless repetitions of choruses. The good thing about music that was oriented toward quick singles was that everything had to make a difference. Too bad we've lost that ethic. (Even Dylan, when he was good and breaking the time rule, had it. I'd say there's nothing extraneous in the 7-1/2 minutes of "Visions of Johanna," whereas there's lots extraneous in the 8 minutes of "Idiot Wind," done eight years later.) Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: RIP Stanley Kubrick
My favorite Kubrick movie is "The Killing," a film noir from the late 50s, I think (pre-Lolita anyhow). The dialogue was written by Jim Thompson. It's hilarious. The heaviness of the later films would let you forget that Kubrick had a hell of a sense of humor once. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Robbie Fulks and covers
Bob wrote: Ive heard both Cake and Robbie introduce old covers by explicitly stating something along the lines of 'I think this is a really good song' Cake even went so far as to say 'we're not doing this ironically.' If that's referring to their cover of "I Will Survive," I remember a friend being annoyed that they *werent* playing it ironically. She insisted on some rule that I had never heard of written somewhere in the Geneva convention or the vehicle code that since the original was so campy, it could not be played seriously by anyone else. It's sorta like the Ramones taking a very bad novelty record like "Surfin' Bird" and turning it a pretty great rock n roll song. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Don't! Squeeze (they're charmin')
A lot of the music Jerry defends makes me seriously cringe, but I'll defend the hell out of squeeze. Yeah they made some wretched some, both coming and going, but East Side Story in particular is a frigging brilliant record, one of the few great ones to come out around that time. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: 1st half-ironic cover? (was sucking in the 70s)
On Tue, 2 Mar 1999, Ph. Barnard wrote: Carl starts a thread: what was the first known instance of the half-ironic cover In my mind, it was always the Byrd's version of "The Christian Life." I couldn't understand it any other way than as an ironic gesture at the time Well, the Byrds had sorta made a habit of doing tongue-in-cheek songs right from the start, like "Oh, Susannah" and that song from Dr. Strangelove. So it wasnt too far of a jump to an obscure Louvin Brothers song. I wish I could read Jake's piece on this. It seems to be that much of the irony lies in the listener. (And havent we been through this thread before?) When I first heard "March 16-20, 1992," the gospel tunes sounded ironic to me. And of course a song like "Warfare" still does, but UT's version of "Atomic Power" no longer does (especially since they left off the last verse). And I think that has a lot to do with my loosening up about the idea of a rock band doing a gospel song. Or maybe it's because as the years go by I doubt the ability of Jay Farrar to be ironic. Will Miner Denver, CO
Damnations again
Not being one of the elect who gets free reviwers CDs, I can join in very late on the Damnations TX hoopla. I havent felt totally overwhelmed by this record. I couldnt hum any of the songs after the first couple of listens. On the other hand, I keep playing it over and over again and what a pleasure it is on a weekend when I'm stuck at the computer. The high point is the sound: the wonderful singing laced over the the guitars and the loose banjo. It's kinda exhilarating. John Croslin has learned a lot since he was self-producing the Reivers. I'm not overwhelmed by the songwriting, though it isnt weak by any stretch (though I could live without the song about the stolen amplifier). When I hear a band that sounds this fine, I wish they would do more covers. (I really thought this about Hazeldine, who sounded great doing the Delmore Brothers cover on "Straight Outta Boone County," but were markedly less magical on their first album.) I'm baffled, though, by the suggestions that the harmonies were reminiscent of the Louvins or X. They're nowhere in the ballpark of the Louvins, either in style, feel, or sound. And they're pretty straight harmonies, which makes 'em nothing like X. My only explanation is that the reviewer's thinking goes like this: "Great harmonies -- who else does harmonies that I ever noticed? -- well, X, but they're more punk -- how about country? -- oh the Louvins. So, the harmonies must be like X and the Louvins. Hey! I think I'll write that down." Will Miner Denver, CO
RE: Is It or Is It Not?
On Sun, 28 Feb 1999, Jon Weisberger wrote: I'll be interested to see what folks who are more peripherally involved in/interested in bluegrass - enough to have run into some of the folks Phil's talking about - have to say on the subject. A couple summers ago I was at a bar in San Francisco watching Wayne Hancock with a good friend and he admitted that he wasnt that into country music -- mostly because he hated the sound of a steel guitar. Now how someone could dislike a steel guitar when they wouldnt blink at the dead sound of a synthesizer is beyond me, but I think his way of thinking is more common than mine. I have the same problem with the singing when I try and play more traditional records, like the Carter Family or the Stanley Brothers. Sara's singing on "Wildwood Flower" sounds like heaven to me, but to an awful lot of people -- people I might otherwise consider friends -- it sounds like screeching. Sometimes I'm having a transcendent experience listening to "Jacob's Vision" and people ask me to please turn it off because it's driving them nuts. There's a similar repellant quotient to a lot of country instruments: the mandolin, the fiddle, the banjo, even the dobro. And for a lot of different reasons. For some people the sound is just grating. Then there were people, when I was at school in Berkeley, who would, upon hearing a song with a banjo or a fiddle, start mimicking the mentally retarded inbred people they assumed made it. So the problem with bluegrass for the masses is that it's got not just one or two of these elements but they pretty much make up what it is. So it's pretty near guaranteed to drive away all but the most twang savvy. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: The Eradication Game (Re: Grammyszzzzzzzzz....)
On Fri, 26 Feb 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can't say yes to Styx, cuz I must confesses to hours of pre-punk adolescent enjoyment derived from Grand Illusion. Yeah, Neal, but little kids eat bugs in the yard when they dont know better. Would you still defend it now that you're older and wiser? Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Re[2]: The Eradication Game (Re: Grammyszzzzzzzzz....)
On Sat, 27 Feb 1999, marie arsenault wrote: Meat Loaf stays. If he goes, we lose "Rocky Horror Picture Show". No way are we losing that. That would be a good reason to nuke him. The only problem would be that then we would lose Susan Sarandon ... Will Miner Denver, CO
RE: Production-- Ralph Emery's take on this thread
On Fri, 26 Feb 1999, Matt Benz wrote: Did you know the Beatles, in 1969, claimed that Phil Spector ruined their "Let It Be" songs with heaps of strings and choirs? Well, at least McCartney complained. I don't think the others cared anymore. Well, both Lennon and Harrison shortly subsequently got Spector to produce their records (Plastic Ono Band, Imagine, All Things Must Pass) so they must either never have listened to Let It Be (which offers as good a reason as any to never hire Spector for anything) or they (god help us) actually liked it. I know we've been focusing, or trying to, on producers of twang, but I've been surprised that no one's mentioned Jeff Lynne, one of the most wretched of the wretched. No matter what the lineup of the band or their style, after going through his meat grinder they all sound the same, with the limp but loud drums and those horrendous drive-by backing vocals with all the life compressed out of them. Jeez. And otherwise relatively sane people hire him, just like Spector. Somewhere in there is a point that relates to Terry's objections to Chet Atkins, but it's escaping me at this point on a Friday morning. Will Miner Denver, CO
Concept albums
Concept albums have certainly evolved over time. So I would include Merle Travis' 1947 "Folk Songs of the Hills" (as well as the later "Songs of the Coal Mines,"). There's also Johnny Cash's americana albums such as "Ride This Train," "Bitter Tears," and "Mean as Hell." And I might also add "Night Life" to that list as well. Compared to an album like "Red Headed Stranger" or "Tommy," these may seem only vaguely like concepts but I'd argue that what makes them concept albums is the point of the album is the whole presentation and not merely a parade of the songs that make it up. Doug Young wrote: The Music must be capable of standing on it's own without all that other stuff. Unless , of course, we dealing with another art form instead of music. The idea that every song committed to a CD has to stand up as a single is silly. There is not one way to listen to music. Do we extend that criteria to other at forms? If I walked through the impressionist wing of the Musee d'Orsay in Paris and said, "That sucked, those pictures were blurry," people would think I was an idiot. "Red Headed Stranger" and "Phases and Stages," for example, are great albums if you listen to them straight through. But if you play them with your CD play set on random, a whole lot of the good stuff suddenly sounds like filler. Which I dont think is any comment on the worth of the albums so much as that they were not meant to be listened to randomly. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Outlaws (was: Hyper produced Bobby Bare)
On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Joe Gracey wrote: the RCA release with Waylon and Willie and Tompall and I forget who else You forgot the gal: Jessie Colter. Now you're gonna have to watch out for Cheryl Cline. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Tom Russell's new one (opera)
On Wed, 24 Feb 1999, Lowell Kaufman wrote: So TR's new one is made to rely on more than just the song itself - it is called a folk-opera after all so view it in the context of an opera. Uh oh. Not another folking opera. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Concept albums (generally a goofy thing, but...)
On Wed, 24 Feb 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: However, Sgt. Pepper's is not a concept album, even though it is billed as such, Wrong!!! The concept for Sgt. Pepper was based on creating an oldtime sort of big band that accompanied a traveling circus , I think. It most definitely was a concept album. Read your music history books. You read 'em Slim. You are wrong about this. That may have been the idea behind the title song but it didnt have anything to do with the songs that were created in the album, which were, by the band's own description, created as odds and ends. Read your Beatles biographies. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: K.D. Lang
On Wed, 10 Feb 1999, stuart wrote: I find this quite hard to believe. In fact it seems from my vantage point to be quite the opposite, in terms of having family, friends, co-workers or whomever who are gay than having such in interacial relationships. I wonder what this very average sample is. There are certainly large and virulent pockets of anti-gay sentiment, most notably conservative religious sorts who see purple gay teletubbies behind every bush., My absolutely unscientific observation is that people who are not aware of being around gay people can often be homophobic, but most of them get over it (to a good degree anyway) once the blinders go up or they get to know someone who is gay. Most of the people I've met who are homophobic have never met a gay person, as far as they know. And that may explain a lot about this survey. Whereas I think the racial attitudes can cut much deeper and are tougher to overcome. Will Miner Denver, CO
kd and Yoakam and Ely
On Sat, 6 Feb 1999, Joe Gracey wrote: I think k.d. just ran into basically the same wall that a lot of us have run into in one form or another over the years. She made it deeper into alien territory than most, but so did yoakum and Ely and several of them in those days and it just didn't pan out as well as we all hoped. I dont know if I'd lump her together with those two (or the many other names that could be added). I get the impression that Dwight, for instance, would keep making great country records even if he had to do it on a small label. He wouldnt do it any other way. Whereas for k.d. it was a matter of changing clothes when she felt like it. I'm not trying to get into some kind of comparison about artistic purity here, because on some level it's all show business and it's all an act. I love k.d.'s countryish records, But it's clear that when the going got sticky, k.d. chose to completely change styles. That's not the choice that a lot of the other folks make in a similar situation. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: k.d. lang (was Re: Heather Myles Injustice)
On Fri, 5 Feb 1999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: did Nashville actually abandon Lang? I mean, was she dropped, was her budget slashed, did radio or the club promoters turn against her? I don't know, and would really like to know why she moved away and into pop if it was for some reason other than just personal preference. Sorry to chime in late here, but I recall an interview around the time of "Ingenue" in which she simply claimed that "I lost my passion for country." The Patsy Cline fixation was over. Maybe because of all of the hullaballoo over eatings cows, but she sure brought that one on herself. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: Bye, Bye American Pie...Hello East Orange
On Wed, 3 Feb 1999, Ph. Barnard wrote: Ever since then she's been walking around the house doing imitation Dylan renderings of songs by the groups she listens to: Spice Girls, Shania, N' Sync, etc. It's pretty funny to hear a 10 year-old do a Dylan version of "Any man of *mine* / Better walk the *line*, etc." for example g Back when I was in school we used to have a game of that. See who can find the funniest song in a Dylan voice. "Killing Me Softly With His Song" was a big winner. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: WOW! (from Alex)
On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, lance davis wrote: what sort of credibility could Oasis fans possibly offer you? Now *that* is the correct question to be asking. Ought to ask it all the time. Replace "Oasis" with anything, *anything*, and it's a great question. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: All Music Guide
As far as the All Music Guide goes, I've found it helpful sometimes for getting a little background on this or that name that comes up. Not the kind of reliable info you can get from someone like Dr. Malone, but then this is a little more current. What's annoying about it is that in an apparent effort not to offend anyone, just about any record gets four stars. Three if they're really opposed to something. So it's near useless for getting a sense of which record you might choose if you're trying out someone new. And of course, the further we get from 1997, the more useless it will be. Still, for all that, I do peruse it from time to time. I'm glad I own it. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: soul
Thanks to Joe for that great Jimmy Day piece. This is what music is all about, isnt it? Joe also wrote about Muscle Shoals: Yeah, I produce an artist from France who recorded there and told me stories. Another great source for good stories is Peter Guralnick's "Sweet Soul Music," which has some wonderful stuff about those old music backwaters like Muscle Shoals and Macon. Will Miner Denver, CO
Re: CD reviewing ethics
Neil is right that there's an inherent problem in the relationship between the reviewer and the performer, but Robert Hilburn is way off of it (as he is on most everything). The idea that there's a conflict of interest between playing in clubs and reviewing other bands is ridiculous, especially from a critic who regularly goes on record-company junkets, gets free CDs, priviledged seats at shows, c. It's exactly the problem that we have in political journalism. If you're going to keep up on the inside scoop -- which is your job, after all -- then you have to have friends Inside. And you cant bite the hand that feeds you, not too hard at least. Which is why, of course, most political journalism is so very very lame. And, by extension, why most musical journalism is ... Back in the 70s when she breaking into clubs, Patti Smith used to write great reviews in Rolling Stone. Most reviewers write weak, pandering crap. Obviously this supposed conflict of interest doesnt get in the way of good reviewing. Will Miner Denver, CO
Musical product vs. music (was: the Garthman, and now is long)
I am always amused when we get onto these Garth threads. It doesnt take but a few posts before someone is loudly condemning his venality and how it's ruining good music and so on. And this is simply not true. Garth's intentions are really no different from all of those nice alt-country or whatever types that most of us like: he wants to sell a lot of records. The main difference is that he's much better at it than any of the others. There's no difference in this regard between Garth and, say, for examples, Steve Earle or Lucinda Williams or Jay Farrar or (insert name of your favorite Artist-With-Integrity here). Steve Earle may say in print that he makes too much money and so on, but I would bet that if he were a poor Sugar Hill artist selling only 5,000 units a pop and having to work a day job he'd change his tune. When talking about the state of music these days, I find it helpful to make a distinction between music and musical product. Or another way to think about that is the distinction between a local musical economy and a national one. A local musical economy is what's healthy for music, and in fact is where it comes from. This means that the people who listen to the music do not just do it by buying units of product but by hearing it live, meeting and cheering the musicians whose lives they support, and (most importantly) playing it themselves. One of the ironies of bluegrass is that though its origins were commercial, bluegrass has survived and thrived because it's been based in local music economies around the country. "Thrive" might seem inappropriate to describe the small bluegrass world that scarcely ever makes a blip on the charts (though there are of course noted exceptions), but what makes keeps music healthy is not statistics from Soundscan. As long as I've been on this list (more than three years now) a lot of people have been waiting for the first Cinderella alt-country band to blow a hole in the charts and bring the gospel of alt-country to the masses, as if this would be proof and a sign that this music is real and viable and legitimate. Whereas, what makes it all of those things are not sales but the fact that in Austin and Chicago and the Triangle and (just) a few other places, you can go hear it live, you can play it with people -- it is music in which everyday people participate and contribute (as opposed to musicians with a caital "M", artists who with some people have almost a priestly status). There are (or at least were once) healthy alt-country economies in a few cities. The beauty of indie rock in the 80s was that there were healthy and very unique economies in quite a lot of cities scattered around the country (Minneapolis, Athens, LA, Boston, Seattle, Austin, yes, but also places like Phoenix and Milwaukee and Washington DC). In contrast to this, the "professionals" in the business are not working to create music so much as musical product. Musical product is for the passive consumption of large groups of people, and the problems of divorcing the music from the locality from which it originally percolated are the same as all of those that get complained about whenever we get to the topic of country radio. Commercial radio is lame and unlistenable to specifically because it is irrelevant and unresponsive to its listeners. The history of corporate popular music in America is one of taking wonderful and thriving local music, tearing it from its roots and making a lot of money off it even as it dies. Disconnected from the local music economy, the music ceases to be alive; growth is replaced by "artistic development" and vanity projects. The music becomes the personal property of the artist as opposed to a shared part of the community which supports and nurtures it. This is the history of rock 'n' roll, rb, soul, and country as we know and love them. (Peter Guralnick's book "Sweet Soul Music," a terrific read, though not focused on this, tells the story of local soul music from Memphis, Macon, and Muscle Shoals and how it slowly strangulated as it became hugely commercially successful.) True, some artists seem to be more focused on making an excellent product than others. Some artists make more moving, trascendent, hard-hitting, (insert your favorite musical quality) albums than others. The artistry is more honest. But the problem is not that Garth is venal while Steve Earle has artistic purity, but that the aims of the economy in which both participate tends to be at odds with making good music that is alive. The business of making records is a business about selling units and generating money, not "artistry." To the extent that corporate music people care about awards for artistry it's only as a means to making more money. This is not the realm where music lives. Sorry to go on so long, Will Miner Denver, CO
