Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Berita #cuih - Ruhut: Jangan Main Api dengan Pemenang Pemilu
perseteruan yang terjadi saat rapat pansus merupakan bentuk psy war yang dilakukan oleh pihak tertentu di dalam political warfare masalah century. aim nya adalah disruption and distraction, melakukan propaganda psikologis, meng isolasi politik lawan politik nya, berusaha melemahkan bahkan menghancurkan morale lawan politik (karena dengan melemahkan morale dari lawan politik merupakan determining factor untuk menang dan menentukan the measure of resistance dari pihak lawan). di harapkan untuk kedepannya para dewan yg terhormat anggota pansus, tidak gampang terpancing pada friksi-friksi murahan seperti ini. supaya tetap fokus dan tidak teralihkan dari tujuan awal untuk menuntaskan kasus century ini. publik telah membangun opini mengenai kasus century (atau pun kasus2 lain nya seperti kpk, antasari, maupun buku gurita cikeas). rakyat indo telah lebih dewasa dalam menilai berdasarkan fakta bukan prasangka, rakyat indo telah lebih smart untuk tidak lagi terbuai oleh iklan2 politik televisi yang bombastis, perlahan-lahan tapi pasti, rakyat mulai menghubung2kan kasus2 yang terjadi bahwa mungkin masing2 ternyata ber korelasi. semuanya dapat dilihat dari aksi dan reaksi dari pihak2 yang berkepentingan. yang terjadi saat rapat pansus kemarin, baru pion kecil yang memang mungkin telah dipilih berdasarkan talent dan experience nya, untuk deliberately melemahkan lawan politik didalam pansus tersebut. baru pion belum raja nya yang maju:), tapi raja biasa nya sembunyi di balik pion2 nya, untouchable. hopefully DPR dan pansus, punya politically will and good will untuk menuntaskan kasus century despite berbagai political pressures. From: Irwan Kurniawan irwank...@gmail.com To: koran-digi...@googlegroups.com; ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thu, January 7, 2010 9:46:58 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Fwd: Berita #cuih - Ruhut: Jangan Main Api dengan Pemenang Pemilu Quote: .. Siapa mengumpat. Dia (Gayus) yang duluan bilang aku kurang ajar, kata Ruhut. .. Kalau tidak salah, Gayus L bilang 'jangan kurang ajar', bukan hanya kurang ajar.. Bisa dilihat dari rekaman yang ada.. RS menyembunyikan fakta.. dipikirnya orang gampang digiring opininya kali.. Sikap RS ini mirip orangtua dari orang yang berhutang kepada saya saat ditagih namun anaknya malah tidak membayar dan selalu berbohong.. saya katakan: bapak jangan seperti orang culas ya.. lah kan dibilang jangan, eh malah marah dan mengatakan isi kebun binatang.. :-( Repotnya, mau saya bawa ke polisi, besarnya hutang terlalu kecil dibanding kemungkinan biaya yang bakal keluar.. kalau dalam lawakan orang madura, laporan kambing hilang, malah bisa hilang sapi.. :-p Si poltak itu kan marah karena tidak dilempar palu.. alias provokasinya gagal.. :-p Ternyata provokator kemakan sendiri.. Biarkan saja orang sombong merasa 'menang'.. Kita tunggu dan biarkan kejatuhan mereka.. :-p CMIIW.. -- Wassalam, Irwan.K Better team works could lead us to better results http://irwank. blogspot. com Pada 7 Januari 2010 13:19, Adi D. Jayanto adjayanto.archive10 @gmail.commenulis: setelah baca berita ini, pengen banget rasanya buka lagi arsip 2009, sekitar bulan juni, juli dan agustus. merunut siapa saja pendukung demokrat yang bebal, yang tidak mau menerima pendapat lain, yang menganggap SBY dan demokrat adalah pilihan yang paling bijak. bijak? #cuih. sekarang di milis ini mungkin sedang demen dengan kata kata bijak dan dewasa. Apakah anda termasuk yang bijak sehingga menghasilkan anggota dewan yang bijak dan pemerintahan yang bijak, seperti Ruhut Sitompul? pikir lagi bagaimana anda membuat keputusan yang bijak. libatkan sedikit otak dan hati anda, jangan hanya hati, jangan hanya otak. tataplah kedepan... bla bla bla... #cuih inilah masa depan indonesia selama lebih 4 tahun kedepan. presiden diam partainya jelas jelas berusaha jadi otoriter. dan selalu berlagak bodoh dan tidak mau tahu dengan hanya bilang saya tidak tahu, itu produk pemerintahan sebelumnya.. . belum lagi partainya sendiri tidak ambil tindakan apapun, bahkan bilang, orang medan pada dasarnya begitu. wah... pacar gw orang medan, dan dia tidak seperti itu? orang medan seharusnya marah karena dianggap wajar jika ngatain orang, tapi karena yang ngomong demokrat, jadi hanya #cuih. selamat kepada minoritas, anda sekarang #cuih. salam #cuih. = = = = = Ruhut: Jangan Main Api dengan Pemenang Pemilu http://politik. vivanews. com/news/ read/119250- ruhut__jangan_ main_api_ dengan_pemenang_ pemilu = = = = = Jangan main api dengan pemenang pemilu. Kami ini pemenang pemilu, dia itu loser. = = = = = VIVAnews - Perseteruan antara Gayus Lumbuun dan Ruhut Sitompul belum juga mereda. Meskipun Gayus menyatakan bahwa ia tak akan melaporkan Ruhut ke Badan Kehormatan (BK) DPR karena menyebutnya bangsat pada rapat pemeriksaan Panitia Khusus (Pansus) Angket Century, Rabu malam, namun
Re: [ppiindia] Gus Dur Wafat
Is this true? My deepest condolences to the family, Indonesia has lost a great man. We all grief and mourn for his death. From: sunny am...@tele2.se To: undisclosed-recipi...@yahoo.com Sent: Wed, December 30, 2009 7:51:24 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Gus Dur Wafat http://www.antaranews.com/berita/1262174944/gus-dur-wafat Gus Dur Wafat Rabu, 30 Desember 2009 19:09 WIB | Peristiwa | Umum | Dibaca 342 kali Ketua Dewan Syuro DPP PKB Abdurrahman Wahid atau Gus Dur saat jumpa pers di Gedung Pengurus Besar Nahdlatul Ulama, Jakarta Pusat, Minggu (17/5). (ANTARA/Fanny Octavianus) Jakarta (ANTARA News) - Presiden keempat Republik Indonesia, KH Abdurrahman Wahid, yang akrab disapa Gus Dur, pada Rabu pukul 18.45 WIB, meninggal dunia di Rumah Sakit Cipto Mangunkusumo (RSCM) Jakarta. Saya sudah cek ke orang-orang dekat Gus Dur dan mereka membenarkan. Saya kira, tidak hanya NU tapi juga bangsa Indonesia telah kehilangan tokoh besar, kata Mantan Ketua PWNU Jawa Timur Ali Maschan Moesa kepada ANTARA per telepon dari Surabaya. Legislator FKB DPR RI itu mengaku kemungkinan Gus Dur akan dimakamkan Kediri. Tapi, tunggu informasi resmi dari keluarga, katanya. Presiden Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono sempat menjenguknya di RSCM Jakarta, Rabu petang sekitar pukul 18.30 WIB menggunakan mobil kepresidenan dengan pengawalan tidak terlalu ketat yakni hanya dikawal lima mobil Pasukan Pengamanan Presiden (Paspampres) . Sekitar 10 menit setelah Presiden tiba, datang Menteri Kesehatan Endang Rahayu Sedyaningsih yang tampak agak terburu-buru. Ia segera menyusul ke kamar tempat Gus Dur dirawat yang sedang dikunjungi Presiden. Mantan Ketua Umum Pengurus Besar Nahdlatul Ulama (PBNU) ini dirawat di ruang VVIP nomor 116 Gedung A RSCM. Sebelum dirawat di RSCM Jakarta, Gus Dur sempat menjalani perawatan medis di RS Jombang Jawa Timur, Kamis (24/12), karena kelelahan setelah melakukan kunjungan ke beberapa pondok pesantren di Jawa Timur. (*) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Buku Membongkar Gurita Cikeas Dikaji
Seharusnya Pemerintah n SBY khususnya, no need to be paranoid or bereaksi berlebihan. semakin berlebihan respond nya jadi semakin terlihat gak pede. dari dulu kalo sepertinya tersudut, pasti played the victim role, gelar konferensi pers lah dengan tema kalo yg bersangkutan yg dizolimi oleh pihak2 lain or lawan2 politiknya. semakin lama semakin terlihat jelas klo victim role yang di mainkan setiap kali tersudut, adalah untuk menggugah emosi untuk mendapatkan simpati rakyat. kali ini sepertinya peran jadi victim udah terlihat basi dan malah jadi komedi politik. rakyat udah semakin smart, memakai nalar dalam melakukan observasi, playing role as a victim is not popular anymore, so maybe should try a new trick to re-image the current image that have been shattered already. From: sunny am...@tele2.se To: undisclosed-recipi...@yahoo.com Sent: Tue, December 29, 2009 3:09:04 AM Subject: [ppiindia] Buku Membongkar Gurita Cikeas Dikaji Refleksi: Bagus juga pengkajian buku Membongkar Gurita diikutsertaka MUI. Seandainya apa yang ditulis dalam buku ini benar menurut MUI, lalu apakah okonom-oknom terlibat dalam gurita korupsi ini akan dicegah untuk tidak bisa masuk surga? http://www.gatra. com/artikel. php?id=133326 Buku Membongkar Gurita Cikeas Dikaji Jakarta, 28 Desember 2009 16:10 Tim Kejaksaan Agung (Kejagung) dan instansi lainnya melakukan pengkajian buku Membongkar Gurita Cikeas: di Balik Skandal Bank Century karya George Junus Aditjondro. Kejaksaan masih melakukan penelusuran dan pengkajian buku Membongkar Gurita Cikeas, kata Kepala Pusat Penerangan Hukum (Kapuspenkum) Kejagung Didiek Darmanto di Jakarta, Senin (28/12). Kapuspenkum menyatakan, tim clearing house atau interdep yang terdiri dari Kejagung, Polri, BIN, Menkominfo dan MUI, akan bekerja sama untuk melakukan kajian terhadap beredarnya buku tersebut. Parameter pengkajian apakah buku itu telah mengganggu ketertiban umum dan harus dihubungkan dengan dasar-dasar tata tertib kehidupan rakyat dan negara pada suatu saat seperti merusak kepercayaan masyarakat terhadap pimpinan nasional, merugikan akhlak dan meresahkan masyarakat, katanya. Ia menambahkan, apakah hal itu kemudian juga mengakibatkan terganggunya kehidupan ideologi, politik, ekonomi, sosial budaya dan pertahanan. Kemudian, tim akan memutuskan apakah buku itu bisa beredar atau tidak, katanya. Sementara itu, Perum LKBN Antara menyiapkan langkah hukum somasi kepada George Aditjondro yang dalam buku Membongkar Gurita Cikeas: Di Balik Kasus Bank Century menuding kantor berita Indonesia itu mengalihkan sebagian dana PSO Antara untuk Bravo Media Centre. Itu sama sekali tidak benar, karena secara substansi dan teknis tidak mungkin pengalihan dana itu dilakukan. Kami minta Aditjondro merevisi buku itu dan meminta maaf karena telah menyebarkan informasi bohong dan menyesatkan. Kalau tidak, kami akan ambil langkah hukum somasi, kata Dirut Perum LKBN Antara Dr.Ahmad Mukhlis Yusuf dalam pernyataannya di Jakarta, Senin. Direksi LKBN Antara sudah membaca dan membahas substansi buku tersebut, khususnya yang terkait dalam tuduhan pemanfaatan PSO LKBN Antara untuk Bravo Media Center. Aditjondro menulis bahwa separuh dari dana PSO LKBN Antara yang berjumlah Rp40,6 miliar mengalir ke Bravo Media Center, salah satu tim kampanye SBY-Boediono. Direksi berkesimpulan informasi tiga halaman (hal 29-31) tersebut tidak ada kebenarannya alias fitnah belaka. Tidak ada uang satu sen pun yang dialihkan ke Bravo Media Center. Kalau uang miliaran rupiah itu betul dialihkan, wartawan dan karyawan Antara tidak gajian, katanya. Untuk itu, katanya, bagian hukum BUMN itu sedang menyiapkan langkah-langkah yang diperlukan termasuk langkah hukum somasi. Antara menuntut Aditjondro minta maaf dan merevisi bukunya yang akan diluncurkan pada akhir tahun ini. [TMA, Ant] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Mengapa soal dubur Noordin dibocorkan?
klo dubur sampai rusak yaah itu udah confirmed gay, if noordin was gay, so what? nothing wrong with that..., kan almarhum jg punya hasrat even hasrat dengan sesama lelaki muslim..,gak usah terlalu di blow up even noordin was gay n died as gay, n the first time we know there's a gay-terrorist, but it was his privacy, there's no reason that the medical team told ppl about his broken anal, and it's not ethical btw. From: Satrio Arismunandar satrioarismunan...@yahoo.com To: nasional-l...@yahoogroups.com; is...@yahoogroups.com; aipi_poli...@yahoogroups.com; HMI Kahmi Pro Network kahmi_pro_netw...@yahoogroups.com; ppiindia ppiindia@yahoogroups.com; news Trans TV news-tran...@yahoogroups.com; kampus tiga kampus-t...@yahoogroups.com; jurnalisme jurnali...@yahoogroups.com; Pers Indonesia persindone...@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2009 4:04:26 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Mengapa soal dubur Noordin dibocorkan? Terlepas dari apakah rusaknya dubur Noordin itu memang benar apa adanya atau hasil rekayasa pihak tertentu, kasus dubur Noordin ini seharusnya tidak patut dibuka ke publik.Hal-hal yang menyangkut dubur itu adalah urusan privat Noordin atau keluarga Noordin, bukan urusan publik, dan tidak ada hubungannya dengan terorisme Namun, dari sudut pendekatan ilmu propaganda, memang soal dubur ini harus dibocorkan ke publik dan media, meski (telah diakui oleh Kadiv Humas Mabes Polri Irjen Nanan Sukarna sendiri) hal itu melanggar etika kedokteran. Manfaat pembocoran info ini adalah: 1. Menghancurkan image atau anggapan sebagian kalangan bahwa Noordin adalah Muslim yang taat. Dengan terbukanya aib ini, martabat dan pribadi Noordin telah dihinakan dan direndahkan sedemikian rupa sehingga bahkan keluarga Noordin pun akan sangat malu terhadapnya. 2. Statusnya sebagai pejuang Islam atau musuh imperialis Amerika juga rusak. Padahal status, martabat dan gengsi sebagai mujahid semacam itulah yang digunakan Noordin untuk merekrut pengikut dan pendukung. 3. Merusak semangat/mental kelompok atau kalangan yang dipandang saat ini masih menjadi pendukung atau simpatisan Noordin dkk. Dengan lemahnya semangat, maka perjuangan mereka untuk meneruskan aktivitas Noordin juga akan melemah. 4. Menimbulkan perpecahan di kalangan pendukung/simpatisa n Noordin dkk, sehinga memudahkan untuk meredam perlawanan atau aktivitas mereka. Yah, ini sekadar analisis murahan dari pengamat yang kerjanya cuma nongkrong di emperan jalan (bukan dari para pengamat intelijen top yang sering dikutip media massa). --- On Thu, 10/1/09, sunny am...@tele2. se wrote: From: sunny am...@tele2. se Subject: [nasional-list] Soal dubur Noordin To: Undisclosed- Recipient@ yahoo.com Date: Thursday, October 1, 2009, 5:00 AM Refleksi : Mengapa dubur Noordin rusak, ada yang merusakkan atau sengaja dirusakan? http://www.bangkapo s.com/detail. php?section= 1category=13 subcat=14 id=10042 Nanan: Soal Dubur Noordin Seharusnya Dirahasiakan JAKARTA, Bangkapos.com — Kadiv Humas Mabes Polri Irjen Nanan Sukarna menyayangkan sikap tim kedokteran yang membeberkan hasil pemeriksaan terhadap jenazah Noordin M Top. Sebelumnya, tim kedokteran, melalui ahli forensik Mun'im Idris mengatakan, terdapat kelainan pada bagian dubur jenazah Noordin. Saya tidak tahu soal itu. Tapi rahasia kedokteran seharusnya itu dirahasiakan. Ada kode etiknya. Itu kan visum et repertum, kata Nanan, Rabu (30/9), di Mabes Polri. Ia menegaskan, yang mengetahui secara persis kondisi fisik jenazah adalah tim kedokteran. Ya yang tahu itu kan dari DVI, dokter, dan forensik, ucapnya. Ia juga meminta agar permasalahan mengenai kondisi fisik jenazah dikonfirmasikan langsung dengan tim kedokteran karena Polri merupakan penyidik yang tidak berhubungan langsung mengenai pemeriksaan jenazah secara fisik. Harus dibedakan. Ada yang menjadi bagian penyidik, ada yang menjadi bagian kedokteran, pungkasnya. http://www.bangkapo s.com/detail. php?section= 1category=13 subcat=14 id=10041 Ahli Forensik: Dubur Noordin Rusak JAKARTA, Bangkapos.com — Inilah kabar terbaru dari jenazah gembong teroris nomor wahid, Noordin M Top, yang kini telah terbujur kaku di RS Polri Soekamto, Jakarta. Ahli forensik Universitas Indonesia dr Mun'im Idris mengatakan, ada dugaan bahwa dubur Noordin mengalami kerusakan. Iya, di dubur Noordin ada kerusakan, ungkapnya, Rabu (30/9) di Jakarta. Secara terpisah, kriminolog UI, Adrianus Meliala, mengatakan, ada dugaan sementara bahwa kerusakan pada dubur Noordin Moh Top tersebut disengaja. Namun, Adrianus menekankan bahwa hal ini adalah dugaan sementara. Pakar kriminolog tersebut mengatakan, kondisi jenazah Noordin telah membeku sehingga menyulitkan dokter forensik memeriksa secara langsung. Baik Mun'im maupun Adrianus, Rabu siang ini, mengunjungi RS Polri untuk melihat jenazah Noordin. Kamis esok, jenazah Noordin dijadwalkan dipulangkan ke Malaysia.
[ppiindia] Headline News:)
few minutes ago i just saw Pak Radityo live at metro TV regarding prita's case, udah going public yaa pak :) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Pemetaan, Menentukan Kiblat di Era Kejayaan Islam
Just want to share facts about Golden Age of Islam (kejayaan Islam), history must be based on facts not just hear-say. there was a fact that there was a golden age of Islam, full of talented great philosophers, talented scientists, astronomers, mathematican. i wrote some statement based on facts which i have posted in this milis long time ago, here i copy-paste it for your information: actually there're scientist, philosophers, mathematican, astronomers that could be associated with islam such as: 1. al- farabi, ibn sina, al-kindi (these three philosophers combined aristotelianism and neoplatonism with other ideas introduced to Islam) but sadly in their era, their teaching according to islam was heretic and they re considered as non-islamic philosophers. abt ibn sina: excelled in medicine but his contribution to science and philosophy is also greatly remembered. Muslims proudly call him the doctor of doctors and enjoy virtual pleasure, alleging him as a golden age of golden Islam. Despite taking the credit, Muslim countries never benefited from his works, however many hospitals, clinics, pharmacies and hotels of Islamic countries are named after him. Ironically, European universities added Ibn Sina’s medical and philosophical works to their curriculum but they remained unknown to the witch factories aka madrassas of the Muslim world. However, his freethinking mind did not accept the absurdities of Islam. He opined in his autobiography under the chapter of “THE AFTER LIFE”. – “after life is a notion received from religious teaching; there is no way of establishing it’s truth save by way of religious dogma and acceptance of the prophet’s report as true; there refers to what will befall the body at the resurrection and those corporal delights or torments which are too well-known to require restating here.” Even during his lifetime ibn sina (Avicenna) was suspected of infidelity to Islam; after his death accusations of heresy, free thought and atheism were repeatedly leveled against him.” 2. al razi ( abu bakr mohammed ibn zakariya ar- razi) another great physician wrote more than 200 books of one half of them are about medicine and rest in physics, mathematics and astronomy. Like Ibn Sina, Ar-Razi’s works had set milestones in medical science. The most controversial book “On Prophecy” has not survived for an obvious reason. Most likely embarrassed Muslims could not swallow the contents that humiliated the prophet of Islam. Somehow, a part of his second book slipped through the hand of ignorant. Ar-Razi quipped -These billy goats (Prophets) pretend to come with a message from God, all the while exhausting themselves in spouting their lies, and imposing on the masses blind obedience to the words of the master. 3. abu 'l-ala ahmad b. abdallah al-ma'arri al ma'arri was also known as the eastern lucretius was famous for poetry and grammar, He was born in Syria but traveled many places until he became blind. He lived in Baghdad for only eighteen months but within this short time he made a name for himself as a poet. After returning from Baghdad , he lived in his hometown Marra for another fifty years. Because of his fame, students from distant places went to Al-Marri to learn from him. Like Ibn Sina, al-Marri did not believe in resurrection and strongly condemned religious beliefs. One of his poems says it all…. Hanifs (Muslims) are stumbling, Christians all astray Jews wildered, Magians far on error's way. We mortals are composed of two great schools: Enlightened knaves else religious fools...' 4. astronomer and and philosopher muslim born Omar khayam. Omar khayam was best known for his rubaiyats or poems but he was outstanding mathematican and astronomers, He also wrote a book of music, an un-Islamic act that may throw him in a burning hell. His calculation of 365.24219858156 days making a year is so close to accurate that modern scientists respectfully remember his name. Omar Khayyam also found a geometric solution of cubic equations. Islam strictly prohibits Martini and bikini. According to Quran, Muslim women are not allowed to reveal their beauty and drinking wine gives you a one-way ticket to hell. But Omar Khayyam was an admirer of beauty and wine. “Drinking wine is my travail Till my body is dead and stale At my grave site all shall hail Odor of wine shall prevail.” Another piece of gem…… “Heaven is incomplete without a heavenly romance Let a glass of wine be my present circumstance Take what is here now, let go of a promised chance A drumbeat is best heard from a distance.” Sadly, Muslim intellectuals do not understand that those golden age of Islam did not care for the Quran neither they discovered anything out of that book. Even though they had the chance of discovering from relatively fresh Quran but they followed the trend of Pythagoras (569-475 BC), Aristotle (384-322 BC), Euclid (325-265 BC), Archimedes (287-212 BC),
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran
i dont see any intelligent respond to my previous statement..., i begin to loose patience here btw. i think ur responds was a joke.. so dont ridicule ur self any further., it's not worth it... From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2008 10:06:31 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran *** Yes, the subject is about the stuff that made by Jewish people, but you should know that stuff is not everything. You are so proud about Jewish people, but you don't know that many of their invention had been made many people suffered. The real sample is when Einstein found a nuclear power, those stuff had made a lot of people die in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, America used it for killing people not for the welfare of human life. So, all of the stuff which has been found by a Jewish people will have a function like a knife, where it can be used for surgery operation but it also can be used for killing people. Means those stuff, for a bad guy is useful, but for a good guy is useful too. So why we don't like a bad guy come to the nation which is respect to basic human life to get free without colonialism. Salam, --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote: dont change and run cowardly from the subject. so as i said previously those DPR ppl, also should demand to ban indonesian ppl to use these stuff: 1. Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel. 2. The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed, and produced in Israel. 3. The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel. 4. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel. 5. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only RD facilities outside the US in Israel. 6. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis. btw, i think many of jewish haters maybe dont know that maybe they are working in companies or using stuff that invented/produced/ made by jewish. so cut the crap...and for once show some intellect for heaven's sake. .. respond to my statement above, if you can . and pls dont run away from the subject. stick to it..ok? _ _ __ From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 11:25:52 AM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran *** Both America and Israel are colonizer, where in the free world right now there is no country like them, we are living in the world that democracy is a fundamental for every nation to build their country. So this is not about their stuff, as we use in every day life, but they are still continuing the bad habit of west country's done on the old fashion to colonize a free country, like Iraq and Palestine. Second that Indonesia has no diplomatic contact with Israel, cause by their act as colonize nation, where in our constitution say that we are against with colonialism, so why there were some Israeli ppl could enter to Indonesia. I think no one of Indonesian ppl hate Jewish but they know that Jewish words can't be trust. salam, --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote: so in that case those DPR ppl, also should demand to ban indonesian ppl to use these stuff: 1. Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel. 2. The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed, and produced in Israel. 3. The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel. 4. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel. 5. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only RD facilities outside the US in Israel. 6. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis. btw, i think many of jewish haters maybe dont know that maybe they are working in companies or using stuff that invented/produced/ made by jewish. so cut the crap...and for once show some intellect for heaven's sake. .. _ _ __ From: Kartono Mohamad kmjp47@ To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com; aipi_politik@ yahoogroups. com; news Trans TV news-transtv@ yahoogroups. com; kampus tiga kampus-tiga@ yahoogroups. com; HMI Kahmi Pro Network kahmi_pro_network@ yahoogroups. com; Forum Kompas forum-pembaca- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com; pantau pantau-komunitas@ yahoogroups. com; jurnalisme jurnalisme@ yahoogro ups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 3:09:26 PM Subject: Re
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran
dont change and run cowardly from the subject. so as i said previously those DPR ppl, also should demand to ban indonesian ppl to use these stuff: 1. Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel. 2. The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed, and produced in Israel. 3. The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel. 4. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel. 5. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only RD facilities outside the US in Israel. 6. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis. btw, i think many of jewish haters maybe dont know that maybe they are working in companies or using stuff that invented/produced/ made by jewish. so cut the crap...and for once show some intellect for heaven's sake. .. respond to my statement above, if you can . and pls dont run away from the subject. stick to it..ok? From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, December 8, 2008 11:25:52 AM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran *** Both America and Israel are colonizer, where in the free world right now there is no country like them, we are living in the world that democracy is a fundamental for every nation to build their country. So this is not about their stuff, as we use in every day life, but they are still continuing the bad habit of west country's done on the old fashion to colonize a free country, like Iraq and Palestine. Second that Indonesia has no diplomatic contact with Israel, cause by their act as colonize nation, where in our constitution say that we are against with colonialism, so why there were some Israeli ppl could enter to Indonesia. I think no one of Indonesian ppl hate Jewish but they know that Jewish words can't be trust. salam, --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote: so in that case those DPR ppl, also should demand to ban indonesian ppl to use these stuff: 1. Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel. 2. The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed, and produced in Israel. 3. The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel. 4. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel. 5. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only RD facilities outside the US in Israel. 6. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis. btw, i think many of jewish haters maybe dont know that maybe they are working in companies or using stuff that invented/produced/ made by jewish. so cut the crap...and for once show some intellect for heaven's sake. .. _ _ __ From: Kartono Mohamad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com; aipi_politik@ yahoogroups. com; news Trans TV news-transtv@ yahoogroups. com; kampus tiga kampus-tiga@ yahoogroups. com; HMI Kahmi Pro Network kahmi_pro_network@ yahoogroups. com; Forum Kompas forum-pembaca- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com; pantau pantau-komunitas@ yahoogroups. com; jurnalisme [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 3:09:26 PM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran Tetapi akan diam kalau AS ikut, meski AS nyata2 menjajah Irak. Sent from my BlackBerry® powered by Sinyal Kuat INDOSAT -Original Message- From: Satrio Arismunandar satrioarismunandar @... Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:45:12 To: aipi_politik@ yahoogroups. com; news Trans TVnews-transtv@ yahoogroups. com; kampus tigakampus-tiga@ yahoogroups. com; HMI Kahmi Pro Networkkahmi_pro_network@ yahoogroups. com; Forum Kompasforum-pembaca- [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com; pantaupantau-komunitas@ yahoogroups. com; jurnalisme[EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] com; ppiindia[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Subject: [ppiindia] Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran Pameran Dagang Internasional Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel Jakarta, 5 Desember 2008 13:34 Tujuh anggota DPR RI mengajukan protes keras terhadap kehadiran Israel dalam pameran dagang International Automation Technology And Materials Handling di Kemayoran, Jakarta, pada 3 hingga 6 Desember 2008. Anggota Komisi I DPR RI dari Fraksi Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (FPKS) Al Muzzammil Yusuf, dalam keterangan melalui SMS di Jakarta, Jumat, menyebutkan, ketujuh anggota DPR RI yang memprotes tersebut masing-masing Al Muzzammil Yusuf dan Suripto (FPKS), Abdillah Toha dan Azlaini Agus (Fraksi PAN), Joeslin Nasution (Fraksi Partai Golkar), Nursyahbani
Re: [ppiindia] Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran
so in that case those DPR ppl, also should demand to ban indonesian ppl to use these stuff: 1. Most of the Windows NT and XP operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel. 2. The Pentium MMX Chip technology was designed in Israel at Intel. Both the Pentium-4 microprocessor and the Centrino processor were entirely designed, developed, and produced in Israel. 3. The Pentium microprocessor in your computer was most likely made in Israel. 4. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel. 5. Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only RD facilities outside the US in Israel. 6. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 by four young Israelis. btw, i think many of jewish haters maybe dont know that maybe they are working in companies or using stuff that invented/produced/made by jewish. so cut the crap...and for once show some intellect for heaven's sake... From: Kartono Mohamad [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; news Trans TV [EMAIL PROTECTED]; kampus tiga [EMAIL PROTECTED]; HMI Kahmi Pro Network [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Forum Kompas [EMAIL PROTECTED]; pantau [EMAIL PROTECTED]; jurnalisme [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, December 6, 2008 3:09:26 PM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran Tetapi akan diam kalau AS ikut, meski AS nyata2 menjajah Irak. Sent from my BlackBerry® powered by Sinyal Kuat INDOSAT -Original Message- From: Satrio Arismunandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 23:45:12 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; news Trans TV[EMAIL PROTECTED]; kampus tiga[EMAIL PROTECTED]; HMI Kahmi Pro Network[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Forum Kompas[EMAIL PROTECTED]; pantau[EMAIL PROTECTED]; jurnalisme[EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ppiindiappiindia@yahoogroups.com Subject: [ppiindia] Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel di Kemayoran Pameran Dagang Internasional Anggota DPR Protes Keras Kehadiran Israel Jakarta, 5 Desember 2008 13:34 Tujuh anggota DPR RI mengajukan protes keras terhadap kehadiran Israel dalam pameran dagang International Automation Technology And Materials Handling di Kemayoran, Jakarta, pada 3 hingga 6 Desember 2008. Anggota Komisi I DPR RI dari Fraksi Partai Keadilan Sejahtera (FPKS) Al Muzzammil Yusuf, dalam keterangan melalui SMS di Jakarta, Jumat, menyebutkan, ketujuh anggota DPR RI yang memprotes tersebut masing-masing Al Muzzammil Yusuf dan Suripto (FPKS), Abdillah Toha dan Azlaini Agus (Fraksi PAN), Joeslin Nasution (Fraksi Partai Golkar), Nursyahbani Katjasungkana (FKB), dan Ahmad Fauzi (Fraksi Partai Demokrat). Dalam pernyataannya, mereka meminta pihak Departemen Luar Negeri, Departemen Perindustrian, dan Departemen Hukum dan HAM (yang membawahi imigrasi) perlu memberi penjelasan terbuka ke publik dan DPR mengenai mengapa perusahaan Israel bisa ikut serta dalam pameran dagang tersebut. Pemerintah, menurut Al Muzzammil, tidak konsisten dengan amanat Pembukaan UUD 1945 yang anti-penjajahan dan pada saat yang sama pemerintah juga tidak konsisten dengan dukungannya pada perjuangan kemerdekaan Palestina. Padahal, katanya, Israel adalah simbol arogansi atas masyarakat dunia yang dibuktikan antara lain bahwa saat ini tak kurang dari 40 anggota parlemen, termasuk ketua Parlemen Palestina Abd. Aziz Dweik, dan menteri kabinet Palestina masih dipenjarakan oleh Israel, bantuan kemanusiaan tidak boleh masuk Israel, perampasan rumah warga masih berlangsung, terowongan di bawah Masjid Al Aqsha masih dibangun, dan Israel merupakan pelanggar terbesar resolusi PBB. Maka kami mengingatkan pemerintah Indonesia untuk tidak gegabah dalam membuka hubungan dengan Israel dalam bentuk apapun, kata Al Muzzammil yang juga anggota Kaukus Palestina DPR RI itu. Sebab, lanjutnya, hal itu bisa menciderai perasaan umat Islam Indonesia dan bangsa Indonesia secara umum yang anti penjajahan dan anti pelanggaran HAM. Karena itu, ketujuh anggota DPR RI itu meminta pemerintah untuk segera mengusir perusahaan Israel tersebut. [TMA, Ant] http://gatra.com/artikel.php?id=120860 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Reading only, http://ppi-india.blogspot.com 4. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [ppiindia] Very interesting and well put by a Pakistani columnist. Jewish Nobel Prize Winners
additional info about Jewish ppl contribution to the world: Nobel Prize Winners on Chemistry, Economic, Literature, Peace, Physics, Psychology and Medicine CHEMISTRY Adolph von Baeyer (1905) * Henri Moissan (1906) * Otto Wallach (1910) * Richard Willstätter (1915) * Fritz Haber (1918) * George de Hevesy (1943) * Melvin Calvin#(1961) * Max Perutz#(1962) * Christian Anfinsen (1972) * William Stein#(1972) * Ilya Prigogine (1977) * Herbert Brown(1979) * Paul Berg#(1980) * Walter Gilbert#(1980) * Roald Hoffmann#(1981) * Aaron Klug#(1982) * Herbert Hauptman (1985) * Jerome Karle (1985) * John Polanyi (1986) * Sidney Altman#(1989) * Rudolph Marcus#(1992) * George Olah (1994) * Harold Kroto (1996) * Walter Kohn (1998) * Alan Heeger (2000) * Aaron Ciechanover(2004) * Avram Hershko (2004) * Irwin Rose(2004) * Roger Kornberg(2006) * Martin Chalfie(2008) Economics * Paul Samuelson# (1970) * Simon Kuznets#(1971) * Kenneth Arrow #(1972) * Wassily Leontief (1973) * Leonid Kantorovich#(1975) * Milton Friedman#(1976) * Herbert Simon #(1978) * Lawrence Klein#(1980) * Franco Modigliani#(1985) * Robert Solow#(1987) * Harry Markowitz#(1990) * Merton Miller (1990) * Gary Becker#(1992) * Robert Fogel (1993) * John Harsanyi (1994) * Reinhard Selten (1994) * Robert Merton (1997) * Myron Scholes (1997) * George Akerlof (2001) * Joseph Stiglitz (2001) * Daniel Kahneman (2002) * Robert Aumann(2005) * Leonid (Leo) Hurwicz(2007) * Eric Maskin (2007) * Roger Myerson(2007) * Paul Krugman(2008) Literature Paul von Heyse #,1 (1910) * Henri Bergson#(1927) * Boris Pasternak#(1958) * Shmuel Agnon#(1966) * Nelly Sachs#(1966) * Saul Bellow#(1976) * Isaac Bashevis Singer#(1978) * Elias Canetti#(1981) * Joseph Brodsky#(1987) * Nadine Gordimer#(1991) * Imre Kertész 2 (2002) * Elfriede Jelinek3(2004) * Harold Pinter4(2005) Peace * Tobias Asser# (1911) * Alfred Fried#(1911) * René Cassin#(1968) * Henry Kissinger#(1973) * Menachem Begin#(1978) * Elie Wiesel#(1986) * Shimon Peres#(1994) * Yitzhak Rabin#(1994) * Sir Joseph Rotblat#(1995) Physics * Albert Michelson#,1(1907) * Gabriel Lippmann#(1908) * Albert Einstein#(1921) * Niels Bohr #,2 (1922) * James Franck#(1925) * Otto Stern#(1943) * Isidor Rabi#(1944) * Wolfgang Pauli 3 (1945) * Felix Bloch#(1952) * Max Born#(1954) * Igor Tamm #,4 (1958) * Ilya Frank 4 (1958) * Emilio Segrè#(1959) * Donald Glaser#(1960) * Robert Hofstadter#(1961) * Lev Landau#(1962) * Eugene Wigner 5 (1963) * Richard Feynman#(1965) * Julian Schwinger#(1965) * Hans Bethe #,6 (1967) * Murray Gell-Mann#(1969) * Dennis Gabor#(1971) * Leon Cooper 7 (1972) * Brian Josephson#(1973) * Ben Mottelson#(1975) * Burton Richter#(1976) * Arno Penzias#(1978) * Sheldon Glashow#(1979) * Steven Weinberg#(1979) * Arthur Schawlow 8 (1981) * K. Alexander Müller9 (1987) * Leon Lederman#(1988) * Melvin Schwartz#(1988) * Jack Steinberger#(1988) * Jerome Friedman#(1990) * Georges Charpak #,10 (1992) * Martin Perl #,11 (1995) * Frederick Reines #,12 (1995) * David Lee 13 (1996) * Douglas Osheroff 14 (1996) * Claude Cohen-Tannoudji 15 (1997) * Zhores Alferov 16 (2000) * Vitaly Ginzburg 17 (2003) * Alexei Abrikosov 18 (2003) * David Gross19(2004) * H. David Politzer19(2004) * Roy Glauber20(2005) Psychology or Medicine * Paul Ehrlich# (1908) * Elie Metchnikoff #,1 (1908) * Robert Bárány#(1914) * Otto Meyerhof#(1922) * Karl Landsteiner#(1930) * Otto Warburg #,2 (1931) * Otto Loewi#(1936) * Joseph Erlanger#(1944) * Herbert Gasser #,3 (1944) * Sir Ernst Chain#(1945) * Hermann Muller #,4 (1946) * Gerty Cori 5 (1947) * Tadeus Reichstein#(1950) * Selman Waksman#(1952) * Sir Hans Krebs#(1953) * Fritz Lipmann#(1953) * Joshua Lederberg#(1958) * Arthur Kornberg#(1959) * Konrad
Re: [ppiindia] Beware The Obama Hype - What Change in America Really Means
well..it's kinda sad,rite? for all ppl that thought obama's foreign policy will change US foreign policy on US relationship with israel and terrorism. it's a naive thinking when they thought obama will cut the close ties with israel. they forgot that powerful jewish ppl rule washington, and most of the powerful jewish are democrats, they are the one who support obama's election. those powerful jewish ppl financed his campaign, gave him a free screening pass in media (especially MSM) bcs most of liberal MSM (main stream media) are own by jewish, without the free screening pass frm MSM obama would never won the election. obama is a politician, he must play rite bcs those ppl got him to the white house, i know it's kinda big disappointment for many ppl who hope for the change. it's a big blow, i feel ur pain man:) lets hope that with obama's administration accompanied with joe biden and rahm emanuel, will have a good impact for the world and maybe indonesia..., include the most important thing about israel - palestina conflict. From: Satrio Arismunandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ppiindia ppiindia@yahoogroups.com; HMI Kahmi Pro Network [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Forum Kompas [EMAIL PROTECTED]; news Trans TV [EMAIL PROTECTED]; kampus tiga [EMAIL PROTECTED]; jurnalisme [EMAIL PROTECTED]; pantau [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 1:35:27 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Beware The Obama Hype - What Change in America Really Means Beware The Obama Hype What Change In America Really Means By John Pilger November 12, 2008 Information Clearinghouse - -My first visit to Texas was in 1968, on the fifth anniversary of the assassination of president John F Kennedy in Dallas. I drove south, following the line of telegraph poles to the small town of Midlothian, where I met Penn Jones Jr, editor of the Midlothian Mirror. Except for his drawl and fine boots, everything about Penn was the antithesis of the Texas stereotype. Having exposed the racists of the John Birch Society, his printing press had been repeatedly firebombed. Week after week, he painstakingly assembled evidence that all but demolished the official version of Kennedy's murder. This was journalism as it had been before corporate journalism was invented, before the first schools of journalism were set up and a mythology of liberal neutrality was spun around those whose professionalism and objectivity carried an unspoken obligation to ensure that news and opinion were in tune with an establishment consensus, regardless of the truth. Journalists such as Penn Jones, independent of vested power, indefatigable and principled, often reflect ordinary American attitudes, which have seldom conformed to the stereotypes promoted by the corporate media on both sides of the Atlantic. Read American Dreams: Lost and Found by the masterly Studs Terkel, who died the other day, or scan the surveys that unerringly attribute enlightened views to a majority who believe that government should care for those who cannot care for themselves and are prepared to pay higher taxes for universal health care, who support nuclear disarmament and want their troops out of other people's countries. Returning to Texas, I am struck again by those so unlike the redneck stereotype, in spite of the burden of a form of brainwashing placed on most Americans from a tender age: that theirs is the most superior society in the history of the world, and all means are justified, including the spilling of copious blood, in maintaining that superiority. That is the subtext of Barack Obama's oratory. He says he wants to build up US military power; and he threatens to ignite a new war in Pakistan, killing yet more brown-skinned people. That will bring tears, too. Unlike those on election night, these other tears will be unseen in Chicago and London. This is not to doubt the sincerity of much of the response to Obama's election, which happened not because of the unction that has passed for news reporting from America since 4 November (e.g. liberal Americans smiled and the world smiled with them) but for the same reasons that millions of angry emails were sent to the White House and Congress when the bailout of Wall Street was revealed, and because most Americans are fed up with war. Two years ago, this anti-war vote installed a Democratic majority in Congress, only to watch the Democrats hand over more money to George W Bush to continue his blood fest. For his part, the anti-war Obama never said the illegal invasion of Iraq was wrong, merely that it was a mistake. Thereafter, he voted in to give Bush what he wanted. Yes, Obama's election is historic, a symbol of great change to many. But it is equally true that the American elite has grown adept at using the black middle and management class. The courageous Martin Luther King recognised this when he linked
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama....
well i think it's a big disappointment from many against-israel ppl that obama picked rahm emanuel as his chief of staff. (where rahm will be one of his closest political advisor including foreign affairs). here are the bio of rahm emanuel : his real name is Rahm Israel Emanuel, born in chicago, According to his father, his son is the namesake of Rahamim, a Lehi paramilitary group combatant who was killed. Rahms surname was adopted by his family in 1933, after Rahms paternal uncle, Emanuel Auerbach, was killed in a skirmish with Arabs in Jerusalem. Rahm Emanuel's father, the Jerusalem-born Benjamin M. Emanuel, is a pediatrician and former member of the paramilitary Irgun ( National Military Organization in the Land of Israel), was a militant Zionist group that operated in Palestine between 1931 and 1948. Rahm Emanuel was a civilian volunteer in the Israel Defense Forces during the 1991 Persian Gulf War. rahm emanuel's religion is jewish , he and his family is a member of Anshe Sholom B'nai Israel, a Modern Orthodox synagoge in Chicago. Many Arabs and Palestinians were angry over Obamas appointment of Rahm Emanuel, especially after Rahm Emanuel's father, Benjamin Emanuel was interviewed by the Hebrew daily Maariv in an article entitled Our Man in the White House , where in that interview Rahm Emanuel's father stated: Obviously, he will influence the President to be pro-Israel. Why shouldn't he do it? What is he, an Arab? He's not going to clean the floor of the White House. Palestinian American Ali Abunimah of Electronic Intifada , said Obamas appointment of Emanuel sent the signal he would not be taking more balanced, more objective, more realistic advice that could change the course from the disastrous Palestine-Israel policies of the Bush and Clinton administrations. however, actually i agree with your statement below, rahm emanuel's career has made him the best men on the best job, obama chose the right person on the right place. there's no one could do the best job to be obama's chief of staff than rahm emanuel. im glad we both agree on that yustam..:) well done obama From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2008 7:02:51 AM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama *** if you see the head line of israel's news paper Our man in the white house it just show us a fear from israel. America is a free country all man which has been an america citizen have a right to serve their country. America is the country where all the people from all nation come to gather to make greatest america for their serve to humanity with their democracy. you know that obama is an africa, his father is a muslim, his mother is christian. So he came from better back ground that has made him as a man that american's believe to be their next president which could serve them better and contribute his foreign policy will be accepted by all nation around the world. To be a president is not easy, that man must have a best policy to make peace in the world that we live on. rahm immanuel is an american, of course he must serve himself to the country that has give him the right to live in america, not the country that he has left. so this is not about relationship between america and israel, this is about a career of a best man in america that he deserved it as his best job has been done. but i just see a fear from israel with the head line. salam --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote: well...i dont expect my self to say this but, obama has done a smart and strategic move when he picked rahm emanuel as his chief of staff, rahm emanuel is well known as a strong supporter of pro-israel, i guessed obama dont want his jewish friends and jewish supporter questioned his loyalty to israel. 75 % jewish in US are registered democrat, and american jewish are obama's financer and great supporters.. .., i think despite the controversy about israel, i think obama has made a clear stand for his foreign policy, that he will always stand with israel. and the love relationship between US and israel will still continually strong even during his administration. a good start. _ _ __ From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 9:37:40 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama Rahm Emmanul bukan orang baru di gedung putih, pada pemerintahan Bill clinton, dia sudah masuk gedung tersebut sebagai penasehat politik dan kebijakan presiden bill clinton. Jadi tidak ada yang aneh dengan Rahm Emmanuel, posoitiflah kalo karirnya meningkat, dalam lingkungan partai demokrat dia adalah congressman. Dia adalah teman baik Obama di partai. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, phyllobates. terribilis
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama....
Glad we both agree on rahm emanuel..yustam..:) From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2008 8:46:27 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama *** as you know well, that america has close relationship with israel since israel's start their proclamation to have a state in palestinian land. So it's not only the muslims that suffer from this action but christian too. The question is, why did they build their nation in the land that there is no relation with the suffering from nazi's action ? I think European and usa should give them the land as a point that they have to help the jewish. if you have a property then someone else take it from you with a brutality action, what do you say to that man ? now the eyes of the world has been awaken by jewish brutality in gaza, the world know what are they doing in gaza, they destroyed palestinian home and make palestinian homeless. but i think all of this problem is about politic, palestinian and israeli have to come to the point that they have solved their problem to have a peace in the land of divined with holly massage... even if obama doesn't pick rahm emanuel as chief of staff, america's still stand behind the jewish, as their lord in the middle east... salam, --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote: well i think it's a big disappointment from many against-israel ppl that obama picked rahm emanuel as his chief of staff. (where rahm will be one of his closest political advisor including foreign affairs). here are the bio of rahm emanuel : his real name is Rahm Israel Emanuel, born in chicago, According to his father, his son is the namesake of Rahamim, a Lehi paramilitary group combatant who was killed. Rahm's surname was adopted by his family in 1933, after Rahm's paternal uncle, Emanuel Auerbach, was killed in a skirmish with Arabs in Jerusalem. Rahm Emanuel's father, the Jerusalem-born Benjamin M. Emanuel, is a pediatrician and former member of the paramilitary Irgun ( National Military Organization in the Land of Israel), was a militant Zionist group that operated in Palestine between 1931 and 1948. Rahm Emanuel was a civilian volunteer in the Israel Defense Forces during the 1991 Persian Gulf War. rahm emanuel's religion is jewish , he and his family is a member of Anshe Sholom B'nai Israel, a Modern Orthodox synagoge in Chicago. Many Arabs and Palestinians were angry over Obama's appointment of Rahm Emanuel, especially after Rahm Emanuel's father, Benjamin Emanuel was interviewed by the Hebrew daily Maariv in an article entitled Our Man in the White House , where in that interview Rahm Emanuel's father stated: Obviously, he will influence the President to be pro-Israel. Why shouldn't he do it? What is he, an Arab? He's not going to clean the floor of the White House. Palestinian American Ali Abunimah of Electronic Intifada , said Obama's appointment of Emanuel sent the signal he would not be taking more balanced, more objective, more realistic advice that could change the course from the disastrous Palestine-Israel policies of the Bush and Clinton administrations. however, actually i agree with your statement below, rahm emanuel's career has made him the best men on the best job, obama chose the right person on the right place. there's no one could do the best job to be obama's chief of staff than rahm emanuel. im glad we both agree on that yustam..:) well done obama _ _ __ From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2008 7:02:51 AM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama *** if you see the head line of israel's news paper Our man in the white house it just show us a fear from israel. America is a free country all man which has been an america citizen have a right to serve their country. America is the country where all the people from all nation come to gather to make greatest america for their serve to humanity with their democracy. you know that obama is an africa, his father is a muslim, his mother is christian. So he came from better back ground that has made him as a man that american's believe to be their next president which could serve them better and contribute his foreign policy will be accepted by all nation around the world. To be a president is not easy, that man must have a best policy to make peace in the world that we live on. rahm immanuel is an american, of course he must serve himself to the country that has give him the right to live in america, not the country that he has left. so this is not about relationship between america and israel, this is about a career of a best man in america that he deserved it as his best job has been done. but i just see a fear from israel
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama....
well...i dont expect my self to say this but, obama has done a smart and strategic move when he picked rahm emanuel as his chief of staff, rahm emanuel is well known as a strong supporter of pro-israel, i guessed obama dont want his jewish friends and jewish supporter questioned his loyalty to israel. 75 % jewish in US are registered democrat, and american jewish are obama's financer and great supporters, i think despite the controversy about israel, i think obama has made a clear stand for his foreign policy, that he will always stand with israel. and the love relationship between US and israel will still continually strong even during his administration. a good start. From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 9:37:40 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama Rahm Emmanul bukan orang baru di gedung putih, pada pemerintahan Bill clinton, dia sudah masuk gedung tersebut sebagai penasehat politik dan kebijakan presiden bill clinton. Jadi tidak ada yang aneh dengan Rahm Emmanuel, posoitiflah kalo karirnya meningkat, dalam lingkungan partai demokrat dia adalah congressman. Dia adalah teman baik Obama di partai. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, phyllobates. terribilis phyllobates. terribilis@ ... wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, Satrio Arismunandar satrioarismunandar @ wrote: Described in Israeli media as Our man in the White House Obama picks ex-Israeli soldier as chief of staff Dubai (AlArabiya.net, Agencies) U.S. President-elect Barack Obama has asked Illinois congressman and former soldier in the Israeli army, Rahm Emanuel to head his White House staff as he moves quickly to fill government jobs in his incoming administration. * Ya pasti lebih reliable pakai perwira canggih pasukan Israil yang biasa menang, daripada perwira Taliban yang sedikit sedikit kucar kacir... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama....
nope... From: Sunny [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 9, 2008 11:05:38 PM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama Apakah ada larangan? - Original Message - From: carla annamarie kneefel To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2008 4:22 PM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama well...i dont expect my self to say this but, obama has done a smart and strategic move when he picked rahm emanuel as his chief of staff, rahm emanuel is well known as a strong supporter of pro-israel, i guessed obama dont want his jewish friends and jewish supporter questioned his loyalty to israel. 75 % jewish in US are registered democrat, and american jewish are obama's financer and great supporters.. .., i think despite the controversy about israel, i think obama has made a clear stand for his foreign policy, that he will always stand with israel. and the love relationship between US and israel will still continually strong even during his administration. a good start. _ _ __ From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] com To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Saturday, November 8, 2008 9:37:40 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Bekas prajurit Israel jadi Chief of Staff Obama Rahm Emmanul bukan orang baru di gedung putih, pada pemerintahan Bill clinton, dia sudah masuk gedung tersebut sebagai penasehat politik dan kebijakan presiden bill clinton. Jadi tidak ada yang aneh dengan Rahm Emmanuel, posoitiflah kalo karirnya meningkat, dalam lingkungan partai demokrat dia adalah congressman. Dia adalah teman baik Obama di partai. --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, phyllobates. terribilis phyllobates. terribilis@ ... wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, Satrio Arismunandar satrioarismunandar @ wrote: Described in Israeli media as Our man in the White House Obama picks ex-Israeli soldier as chief of staff Dubai (AlArabiya.net, Agencies) U.S. President-elect Barack Obama has asked Illinois congressman and former soldier in the Israeli army, Rahm Emanuel to head his White House staff as he moves quickly to fill government jobs in his incoming administration. * Ya pasti lebih reliable pakai perwira canggih pasukan Israil yang biasa menang, daripada perwira Taliban yang sedikit sedikit kucar kacir... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: INDONESIA SORGA PARA PEDOPHILE (was Fwd: Syech Puji Nikahi Bocah 11 Tahun)
reading your answers below, i was appaled but actually not surprise of your answers. it's a horrific fact how far ppl could go in the name of certain belief. even its belief system is out of logic,causing the mind incapable to function intellectually, so out of touch with universal humanity, lost the capability of compassion, tolerance and to reason with its self, in another word 'inhumane'. it's useless to have a logical discussion if logic,and reason are not the basic. your answers below has spoken for itself. and also i think u seems to understand the mind of this kinda ppl thats why you agree to his conduct even more you defended it. the reason that you aggresively beyond all logic and humanity, agree with this kinda person and defend him, is because you share the same ideology and belief system with this person, your belief system and ideology allow and justify this kinda action, and it's hurt your belief system and ideology when some ppl condemn this kinda psychopathic action. for you, it's not about the child, it's about your ideology and belief system that has been questioned or at stake so you have to defend it by you defended the syech. on the contrary, for me is about the child's life , as universally humanity speaking and logically thinking, not the ideology and belief system because i dont have the same ideology and belief system like yours or the syech. thats why further discussion will reach a dead-end. hopefully there're no many ppl like you or this syech, even though i doubt it --- On Sun, 10/26/08, Yustam Bilakonga [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Yustam Bilakonga [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: INDONESIA SORGA PARA PEDOPHILE (was Fwd: Syech Puji Nikahi Bocah 11 Tahun) To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 26, 2008, 9:57 AM ok i make the answering one by one, hope you will get the points . . . 1. do you seriously believe that this syech married this little girl or this innocent child based on love? and this innocent young ones actually love him and understand about marriage? * * * Yes, I seriously believe that this syech is really love those little girl, so why he wants to marry her. He would protect her by marriage. Of course the girl is innocent, she just needs protection and love, that would change from his parent to the one who married her. You see that why us always love our parents, because from the childhood we got love from them. So if an old man love a girl from his young age, of course the girl will turn it by loving him in all of her soul. Basically we, as a human need protection, with the protection we have to pay it back with love and care too. So it is different with that man and women who get engaged in a matured one, beside love, there is other aim that why they want to get engaged, some thing like sex, possessions and so on, so their love is not pure, and then why the love ram, and divorce occurred... you can see a phenomena of young teenage that fall in love from their secondary school that would make their marriage strong, they believe each other. 2. How about her basic right as a human being? * * * I think the basic right of a young girl is protection, as we get protection from our parent or state. So that old man must protect the young girl from anything that will make her in supper. That old man is a syech that understood what the need of a young girl. First time he married that young girl, his act is as a parent not as an husband. 3. what do you think about an old man marrying and then engaging sex with an innocent child (lets say 7 or 11 year old little girl)?what your heart and mind tell you abt that? * * I though in your mind that marriage is all abt sex, marriage is caring, loving, protection etc . . . Some one in love of course he will not think first abt sex, but others then sex. Dont be naïf about marriage and sex. 4. could you visualize in your head this innocent child on her first sexual act with this syech ? dont you think she probably screaming for her mommy oor her daddy when he forced himselves to her. * * * I couldnt visualize in my mind, that an old man who love her beloved one to make her screaming and hurting. That old man have a wife that older than those young girls. Ones more, dont you think all about marriage just for having sex. Marriage is loving, caring, protection etc. *** I hope you catch the points. Now what is your comment abt love, marriage and sex. _ _ __ Dari: carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ yahoo.com Kepada: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Terkirim: Sabtu, 25 Oktober, 2008 20:58:44 Topik: Re: [ppiindia] Re: INDONESIA SORGA PARA PEDOPHILE (was Fwd: Syech Puji Nikahi Bocah 11 Tahun) ok, then i could you kindly answer my previous questions, because it seems you are not answering it...so let me help you out by refreshing: 1. do you seriously believe that this syech married this little girl
[ppiindia] Fw: Re: Fwd: [Jurnal Perempuan] Kiai Nikahi Bocah : Langkah Komnas Anak dan LSM?
fyi, opinions from another milis --- On Mon, 10/27/08, Gadis Arivia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Gadis Arivia [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Fwd: [Jurnal Perempuan] Kiai Nikahi Bocah : Langkah Komnas Anak dan LSM? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Monday, October 27, 2008, 12:57 AM Ada yang bisa dilakukan oleh LSM dan anggota masyarakat secara individu. Yaitu membuat pernyataan meminta negara melakukan fungsinya melindungi anak dari bahaya serta menerapkan UU Perkawinan, UU Perlindungan Anak dan UU KDRT serta menghormati ratifikasi CEDAW dan perangkat hukum internasional lainnya yang telah ditanda tangani oleh Indonesia. Pekerjaan LSM adalah bersuara utuk kepentingan masyarakat sipil dengan dukungan individu/anggota masyarakat yang ikut prihatin dengan kasus tertentu. Dengan bersuara di milis ini dan milis2 lainnya telah menjalankan fungsi kritik sebagai warga negara dengan baik tapi lembaga tentu perlu bersuara dengan lebih formal. Jangan lelah untuk bersuara selagi kita masih bisa bersuara dan berkontribusi, pikirkan Ulfa kecil yang tak memiliki kekuasaan apapun apalagi untuk bersuara. Salam, gadis arivia. 2008/10/26 sophia_faira [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Dear all, Saya juga anggota pasif di milis ini. Tapi, mendengar berita ini jadi ingin berkomentar dan mungkin ada teman2 yang bisa mengupdate berita terakhir. Apakah sudah ada langkah dari Komnas perlindungan anak dan Komnas perempuan untuk menangani masalah ini? Semoga saja karena kalau tidak bertindak cepat, 2 anak lagi bakal menjadi korban. Menurut saya, LSM lokal termasuk LSM di bawah NU di Semarang atau Jawa Tengah juga perlu dilibatkan untuk memberikan advokasi kepada korban. Perlu ada pressure groups agar tidak terjadi lagi kesewenang-wenangan seperti ini. Salam, tuti --- In jurnalperempuan@ yahoogroups. com jurnalperempuan% 40yahoogroups. com, Deedee Achriani [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Nina, Sama seperti saya, ..sayapun tidak pernah menanggapi milis ini, hanya rajin membaca setiap hari, tetapi berita ini benar benar membuat saya tidak tahan dan harus menulis dan menanggapi berita ini, saya mual, pusing dan gemas dengan perbuatan Kiyai yang tidak punya perasaan sama sekali itu, mengingat saya sendiri memiliki anak berusia 12 tahun. Anak saya saja yang berusia 12 tahun itu masih sangat manja,..kadang masih bercanda guling gulingan dengan ayahnya yang ingin menunjukan betapa sayang nya dia terhadap anak gadis kecil nya ini, tidak terbayangkan bagi saya, ..ada orang yang dengan bangganya bisa menikahi anak se usia itu, ... bahkan tadi malam saya melihat beritanya di salah satu TV swasta dengan tertawa dia masih berkata setelah pernikahan ini saya akan menikah lagi dengan anak wanita berusia 7 tahun??? Dan saya juga jadi tidak habis berfikir,..ditengah masih adanya orang orang seperti itu dan mungkin masih banyak lagi,..yang melegalkan perbuatannya dengan alasan agama untuk urusan pribadinya, malah penyelenggara Negara ini justru melanggengkan bahwa ini bukan persoalan ?? apakah kita sudah buta hukum tidak bisa lagi menegakan UU Perkawinan? Sangat memprihatinkan .. Salam -- Forwarded message -- From: Nina Putera [EMAIL PROTECTED] .. Date: 2008/10/22 Subject: Re: [Jurnal Perempuan] Kiai Nikahi Bocah 12 Tahun To: jurnalperempuan@ yahoogroups. com jurnalperempuan% 40yahoogroups. com Saya anggota pasif yang selalu mengikuti semua berita2 disini. Cuma membaca ini rasanya mau muntah. Seorang wakil ketua DPR merasa tidak ada yang salah dengan gambaran ini ? Ini jelas2 menyalahi ketentuan syarat minimum usia menikah untuk perempuan pada undang2 perkawinan kita. Dan seorang yang duduk di lembaga yang membuat undang2 itu dengan kalemnya mengatakan ini tidak apa2?. Mau dibawa kemana kaum perempuan di negara kita tercinta ini. http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/islam- kristen/message/ 18799 salam nina --- On Wed, 10/22/08, Wenny wenny.trisvianne1@ ...wenny. trisvianne1% 40three.com. au wrote: From: Wenny wenny.trisvianne1@ ...wenny. trisvianne1% 40three.com. au Subject: [Jurnal Perempuan] Kiai Nikahi Bocah 12 Tahun To: jurnalperempuan@ yahoogroups. com jurnalperempuan% 40yahoogroups. comjurnalperem puan% 40yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2008, 4:14 AM Rabu, 22/10/2008 17:50 WIB Kiai Nikahi Bocah 12 Tahun Anggota DPR: Tak Masalah Asal Semua Tercukupi Hestiana Dharmastuti - detikNews Jakarta - Tindakan Pujiono Cahyo Widianto atau Syekh Puji menikahi Lutfiana Ulfa (12) menuai kontroversi. Bagi Wakil Ketua DPR Hilman Rosyad Syihab menilai secara agama, kesehatan, psikologis maupun sosiologis pernikahan itu tidak ada masalah. Hilman menjelaskan, secara syariah Islam selama perempuan sudah haid maupun belum haid sekali pun dapat dinikahkan. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Re: INDONESIA SORGA PARA PEDOPHILE (was Fwd: Syech Puji Nikahi Bocah 11 Tahun)
ok, then i could you kindly answer my previous questions, because it seems you are not answering it...so let me help you out by refreshing: 1. do you seriously believe that this syech married this little girl or this innocent child based on love? and this innocent young ones actually love him and understand about marriage? 2. How about her basic right as a human being? 3. what do you think about an old man marrying and then engaging sex with an innocent child (lets say 7 or 11 year old little girl)?what your heart and mind tell you abt that? 4. could you visualize in your head this innocent child on her first sexual act with this syech ? dont you think she probably screaming for her mommy oor her daddy when he forced himselves to her. still waiting for your answer Carla --- On Fri, 10/24/08, yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ppiindia] Re: INDONESIA SORGA PARA PEDOPHILE (was Fwd: Syech Puji Nikahi Bocah 11 Tahun) To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, October 24, 2008, 9:46 PM I think so, that this syech love those little girls, so why he wish to marry them. Yeah, of couse he understand what he would like to do with those girls, he knows well that they are still a girl with their dolls. I think many people under estimate about this syech, that this syech is sex maniac, or something that you want to say to him with a bad pet name. I think that you come first to figure this syech with a bad image. he he he I don't understand what in your mine about married, all people is trapped that to marry a women just for having sex. The first you want to marry some one, I think there should be what we say falling in love, this is difference with some one who want to have sex without marry. Falling in love means to protect or to grasp her from any body that who want to hurt her. He will put his soul for someone that he loves so. I hope you understand about this. you went to the deep meaning of pidophile, as if the syech is a pidophile, if you have got his track record of pidophile action, of course you say him as pidophile, but if you just listen someone talking without any evident, this is mean that you have violated the right of syech. All the theory that you explain, i think nothing is matched with the syech, bcs as the syech said that he want to marry those girl to make them as his successor for the bisnis he have builded and successed, so he doesn't marry those girl for sex as you think in your mind. yeah I think, in this modern era, no one of the parent who want to let his girl in a young age to marry with an old people, so do I, but I just want to see the syech in a positive way. I agree with you that parent should protect their children, but, does the syech protect those girls after he married them ? salam, yustam --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote: so Yustam, tell me something, do you seriously believe that this syech married this little girl or this innocent child based on love? and this innocent young ones actually love him and understand about marriage? this 11 yeard old child is a child, she should be out there playing with her friends, she still a minor. she should not even been thinking or even engaging sex with anyone esp someone with the same age or older than her granpa. could you visualize in your head this innocent child on her first sexual act with this syech, dont you think she probably screaming for her mommy oor her daddy when he forced himselves to her. how about her basic human right as a human being? dont she has a voice, a right, or dignity? grown up suppose to protect children. abuse means violation of basic right. this child basic right has been violated. her innocent has been slaugthered. pedophile comes in many forms, some are child pornography, for some are go to places that offered children for sex, but some are more religious one, bcs this pedophile justified their action based on religion. actually they all just the same, different clothes but the same person. still a beast in different clothes. A common attitude among people is that child molesters are heartless, selfish, uncaring individuals looking to attack and harm children for the joy of it. However, research indicates that this is not always the case. According to Gilgun (1995) child molesters often believe that they are expressing love to their victims. They believe that their victims enjoy the attention and care they receive and that what they are doing to the child is acceptable. In addition, child molesters often believe that they are expressing a romantic love and that their victims are returning this love. They believe that the sexual feelings are mutual. Gilgun (1995) found that many child molesters display evidence of fragmented thoughts. The research indicates that while child molesters believe that they are expressing great love and caring
Re: [ppiindia] Re: INDONESIA SORGA PARA PEDOPHILE (was Fwd: Syech Puji Nikahi Bocah 11 Tahun)
so Yustam, tell me something, do you seriously believe that this syech married this little girl or this innocent child based on love? and this innocent young ones actually love him and understand about marriage? this 11 yeard old child is a child, she should be out there playing with her friends, she still a minor. she should not even been thinking or even engaging sex with anyone esp someone with the same age or older than her granpa. could you visualize in your head this innocent child on her first sexual act with this syech, dont you think she probably screaming for her mommy oor her daddy when he forced himselves to her. how about her basic human right as a human being? dont she has a voice, a right, or dignity? grown up suppose to protect children. abuse means violation of basic right. this child basic right has been violated. her innocent has been slaugthered. pedophile comes in many forms, some are child pornography, for some are go to places that offered children for sex, but some are more religious one, bcs this pedophile justified their action based on religion. actually they all just the same, different clothes but the same person. still a beast in different clothes. A common attitude among people is that child molesters are heartless, selfish, uncaring individuals looking to attack and harm children for the joy of it. However, research indicates that this is not always the case. According to Gilgun (1995) child molesters often believe that they are expressing love to their victims. They believe that their victims enjoy the attention and care they receive and that what they are doing to the child is acceptable. In addition, child molesters often believe that they are expressing a romantic love and that their victims are returning this love. They believe that the sexual feelings are mutual. Gilgun (1995) found that many child molesters display evidence of fragmented thoughts. The research indicates that while child molesters believe that they are expressing great love and caring for their victims and fail to see anything wrong with their actions. just wanna make it simple for you, an old man wanna marry or married a 7, 8 , or 11 year old child, what do you think about that? do you believe that he acted based on love and respect of the child? and the child also returning his love and have an understanding about marriage? what do you think about an old man marrying and engaging sex with an innocent child (lets say 7 or 11 year old little girl)?what your heart and mind tell you abt that? whether people want to justify this psychopathic behaviour, the fact is the child is the victim here. so if many people try to justify or just stood silent and ignorance (they dont condemn nor support it). just picture this, what if it happen to your family, your little girl, your little niece, and granddaugther? what if some well-known respectable and religious syech came to you wanna marry your little girl, so in whatever reason you agree, would you able to look into your child eyes and saying to her that it's ok. so Yustam could you kindly answer my questions above? parents should protect their children, father should be the one who protect his innocent children with his own life. if not. they should not be called a father. waiting for your answer. Carla --- On Thu, 10/23/08, yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ppiindia] Re: INDONESIA SORGA PARA PEDOPHILE (was Fwd: Syech Puji Nikahi Bocah 11 Tahun) To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, October 23, 2008, 9:11 PM *** Terus terang ibu bambang ini tidak paham arti pedophile, menurut wikipedia pidophile sbb, The term pedophile is commonly used to describe all child sexual abuse offenders. Padahal sang syech tidak melakukan abuse terhadap anak tersebut. Perlu sekali ibu belajar tentang pedophile sebelum menuduh seseorang. apalagi membawa-bawa orang asing ke indonesia yang seakan-akan banyak menikahi wanita islam karena seks. Yang kita tahu di bali banyak warga Australia yang pedophile dan di jakarta ada robot gedhek yang melakukan abuse terhadap anak-anak laki-laki, ini adalah kejahatan. jadi ibu harus membedakan bahwa pedophile itu berhubungan dengan abuse. anehnya lagi ibu ini menolak ruu pornograpphy padahal pedophile itu berhubungan dengan seks, di mana seks itu berhubungan dengan yang porno-porno, anak-anak kecil yang telanjang saja bisa membuat seorang pedophile untuk melakukan kejahatan, apalagi kalo orang dewasa yang memperlihatkan kepornoan, maka seorang bukan pedophile pun akan teransang dan melakukan ABUSE. jadi SADAR-lah bu Bambang . . . salam --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, Ibu Bambang ibu.bambang@ ... wrote: Terus terang Ibu miris sekali dengan pemberitaan di bawah ini. Bagaimana tidak, negara yang kita cintai ini bisa menjadi sasaran kaum pedophile dari manca negara. Khan syarat nya gampang sekali (asal tahu): -
Re: [ppiindia] Perlunya UU Pornografi dan Perkecualian untuk Propinsi yang Menolak
how abt many Indonesian ancient Candi, several of them displaying images of nude women crafted in the wall of those candis, or how abt those painting or sculpture that have became national art, do they have to be destroyed too? --- On Wed, 9/24/08, Kartono Mohamad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kartono Mohamad [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Perlunya UU Pornografi dan Perkecualian untuk Propinsi yang Menolak To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 24, 2008, 9:56 AM Sebuah undang2 di NKRI sekali diundangkan ia berlaku utk seluruh NKRI, tanpa kecuali. Maka berbijak bijaklah dlm menyusun sebuah UU supaya dpt berlaku dan diterima di seluruh NKRI. Jangan pula berprasangka bhw yg menolak UU APP berarti pro pornografi. Janganlah berpikir hitam putih spt Bush. KM Sent from my BlackBerry® powered by Sinyal Kuat INDOSAT -Original Message- From: A Nizami [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:22:09 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com; lisi[EMAIL PROTECTED] com Subject: [ppiindia] Perlunya UU Pornografi dan Perkecualian untuk Propinsi yang Menolak Assalamu'alaikum wr wb, Penerapan UU Pornografi terseok-seok dan penuh perdebatan sehingga sempat ditunda. Orang-orang Kafir dan Sekuler (JIL dan Pegiat Porno) meski minoritas tapi justru menguasai media dan TV Swasta, sehingga suaranya juga turut didengar. Apalagi TV Swasta juga kerap menyiarkan sinetron, film2, dan lagu-lagu porno (meski levelnya mungkin kurang dari Playboy) sehingga kurang netral. Bali dan DPRD Menado menolak. Sementara yang lain mendukung UU Pornografi. Bhinneka Tunggal Ika, berbeda-beda tapi satu juga. Ini semboyan negara Indonesia. Artinya suku, agama, dan budaya di Indonesia memang berbeda2. Tidak bisa disamakan. Tapi itu tidak jadi alasan untuk tidak bersatu. Bersatu juga tidak harus jadi sama. Oleh karena itu jika disyahkan, sebaiknya UU ini diberlakukan secara Nasional KECUALI jika ada DPRD Propinsi yang menolaknya. Jika DPRD Bali, Papua, Sulut menolak, berarti di propinsi Bali, Papua, dan Sulut UU Pornografi tidak diterapkan. Sebaliknya jika di DKI Jakarta, Jabar, Aceh, dsb DPRDnya menerima, maka UU itu harus diterapkan. Tidak bisa jika DPR dan DPRD sudah menerima, lalu minoritas menolaknya dan memaksakan pembebasan pornografi di seluruh Indonesia. Ini tirani minoritas. Saat ini seluruh anggota DPR sudah menerima UU Pornografi. Yang menolak hanya 2: PDIP dan PDS. Jumlah yang menerima sekitar 80% sementara yang menolak sekitar 20%. Secara demokrasi, UU Pornografi harus diberlakukan. Tapi jika DPRD Bali, Sulut, dan Papua berkeras menolak, kita juga tidak bisa memaksakan. Tak ada paksaan dalam beragama. Jadi buat yang senang pornografi dan pornoaksi, silahkan datang ke propinsi yang bebas. Sebaliknya yang tidak senang melihat orang pacaran pangku-pangkuan, apalagi sampai berhubungan seks di tempat umum. Negara kita memang negara Kesatuan. Tapi bukan berarti budaya dan agamanya harus disamakan atau diseragamkan. Justru nanti ada propinsi yang berontak karena ada aturan yang tidak sesuai dengan budaya dan agama mereka. Di AS dengan slogan E Pluribus Unum, Dari Banyak jadi Satu, mereka tetap membiarkan tiap negara bagian untuk menerapkan aturan yang sesuai dengan budaya dan tradisi masing2 negara bagian. Sebagai contoh untuk hukuman mati ada negara bagian yang menolak, ada pula yang menjalankannya. Tapi dengan perbedaan itu justru mereka bersatu karena tidak dipaksa menjalankan sesuatu yang bertentangan dengan budaya masing2 negara bagian. Di Indonesia dengan penyeragaman aturan justru separatisme terjadi di Aceh, Papua, Maluku Selatan, Timtim, dsb. Oleh karena itu semoga UU Pornografi bisa disahkan, dan diterapkan di semua propinsi kecuali di propinsi yang DPRDnya menolak. Bagaimana pun juga UU Pornografi sangat penting karena Indonesia adalah negara yang berdasarkan KETUHANAN YANG MAHA ESA dan Allah sangat benci kepada pornografi. Jangankan Indonesia, AS yang bebas saja untuk Pornografi tetap ada batasan. Video atau situs Internet diberi rating apakah porno atau tidak. Yang bisa masuk ke tempat porno hanya yang berumur 18 tahun ke atas dan punya ID Card. Di AS diatur bahwa anak-anak di bawah umur tidak boleh difoto telanjang untuk media sex atau dipaksa berhubungan sex. Ada UU yang mengatur itu. Ironis jika Indonesia yang katanya religius justru pornografi dibebaskan secara liar tanpa ada UU yang mengaturnya. Kalau masukan saya sih UU Pornografi ini berlaku secara nasional, KECUALI jika ada DPRD propinsi yang menolak, misalnya propinsi Bali, Papua, atau Sulut. Ini penting karena dalam Islam Laa ikraha fid diin. Kemudian dengan adanya perbedaan antara yang hak dan batil ini, masyarakat akan bisa membandingkan sistem mana yang lebih baik. Seandainya nanti di Bali orang2 bebas telanjang di depan anak2, berhubungan seks di tempat umum, dsb, niscaya lama2 masyarakat Bali akan sadar
Re: Bls: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible
hi pak Yustam, yup:) --- On Fri, 9/19/08, yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: yustamb [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Bls: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, September 19, 2008, 8:23 PM Hi, carla, Are you carla of prudential ? --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote: dear Ardy, it is pointless to debate..., and do not have to worry abt the faith of christians here, im sure that they even did not read those kinda emails, they simply just throw it to the trash, like i did.. it is not even an intellectual debate, it is a hate debate ... when you debate a hatemonger, you will loose, because you can not reason with them. the best thing is to let it go, ignore and throw it into the thrash. but it's up to u anyway:) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] . Subject: Bls: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:24 PM Hai Carla, Terima kasih atas sarannya. Hanya saja saya merasa perlu menjelaskan hal tersebut supaya teman-teman Kristen tidak terdeviasi secara iman sebagai dampak atas posting yang tendensius. Walaupun begitu saya merasa perlu untuk stand by dulu sementara waktu. Buat teman-teman Muslim lainnya, saya minta maaf atas statemen saya. Salam damai dan salam persahabatan buat semuanya. Selamat menunaikan ibadah puasa buat yang menjalankannya. Kiranya Moderator dapat memilah-milah topik-topik sehingga diskusi di milis ini lebih dapat membangun dalam kehidupan berbangsa dan bernegara. Salam Ardi - Pesan Asli Dari: carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ yahoo.com Kepada: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Terkirim: Kamis, 18 September, 2008 11:07:00 Topik: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible Dear ardy, guess you are a new kid on town in this milis:), let me give u a friendly advise, do not waste your precious time by replying to those hatemongers emails, saved your energy, it isn't worthed. indulge your selves and laugh when you read those email because they just doing that bcs they are desperate, and the only person that they want to convince with those kinda emails are them selves. just pity them, ok? carla --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] com wrote: From: Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Subject: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 11:11 PM Riri, yang ini juga belum ditanggapi, siapa yang sebenarnya pedofilia? Jangan memotong dan menyembunyikan ayat untuk kepentingan kotor. Keluaran 20:13 berbunyi : Keluaran 20:13 dan setelah TUHAN, Allahmu, menyerahkannya ke dalam tanganmu, maka haruslah engkau membunuh seluruh penduduknya yang laki-laki dengan mata pedang. Keluaran 20:13 isinya bukan seperti yang anda sampaikan dalam email. Justru yang pedofilia adalah Nabi Muhammad. Dari Hadits Hisyanm ibnu Urwah ditunjukkan bahwa Nabi yang sudah berumur 50 tahun menikahi gadis polos Siti Aisyah yang masih berumur 7 tahun. Siti Aisyah yang mestinya masih perlu dibimbing justru dijadikan istri. Dinegara manapun tidak akan pernah ada anak berusia 7 tahun diijinkan menikah. _ _ _ _ _ _ Yahoo! sekarang memiliki alamat Email baru. Dapatkan nama yang selalu Anda inginkan di domain baru @ymail dan @rocketmail. Cepat sebelum diambil orang lain! http://mail. promotions. yahoo.com/ newdomains/ id/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ _ _ _ _ _ Dapatkan alamat Email baru Anda! Dapatkan nama yang selalu Anda inginkan sebelum diambil orang lain! http://mail. promotions. yahoo.com/ newdomains/ id/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Bls: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible
dear Ardy, it is pointless to debate..., and do not have to worry abt the faith of christians here, im sure that they even did not read those kinda emails, they simply just throw it to the trash, like i did.. it is not even an intellectual debate, it is a hate debate ... when you debate a hatemonger, you will loose, because you can not reason with them. the best thing is to let it go, ignore and throw it into the thrash. but it's up to u anyway:) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bls: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 8:24 PM Hai Carla, Terima kasih atas sarannya. Hanya saja saya merasa perlu menjelaskan hal tersebut supaya teman-teman Kristen tidak terdeviasi secara iman sebagai dampak atas posting yang tendensius. Walaupun begitu saya merasa perlu untuk stand by dulu sementara waktu. Buat teman-teman Muslim lainnya, saya minta maaf atas statemen saya. Salam damai dan salam persahabatan buat semuanya. Selamat menunaikan ibadah puasa buat yang menjalankannya. Kiranya Moderator dapat memilah-milah topik-topik sehingga diskusi di milis ini lebih dapat membangun dalam kehidupan berbangsa dan bernegara. Salam Ardi - Pesan Asli Dari: carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ yahoo.com Kepada: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Terkirim: Kamis, 18 September, 2008 11:07:00 Topik: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible Dear ardy, guess you are a new kid on town in this milis:), let me give u a friendly advise, do not waste your precious time by replying to those hatemongers emails, saved your energy, it isn't worthed. indulge your selves and laugh when you read those email because they just doing that bcs they are desperate, and the only person that they want to convince with those kinda emails are them selves. just pity them, ok? carla --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] com wrote: From: Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Subject: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 11:11 PM Riri, yang ini juga belum ditanggapi, siapa yang sebenarnya pedofilia? Jangan memotong dan menyembunyikan ayat untuk kepentingan kotor. Keluaran 20:13 berbunyi : Keluaran 20:13 dan setelah TUHAN, Allahmu, menyerahkannya ke dalam tanganmu, maka haruslah engkau membunuh seluruh penduduknya yang laki-laki dengan mata pedang. Keluaran 20:13 isinya bukan seperti yang anda sampaikan dalam email. Justru yang pedofilia adalah Nabi Muhammad. Dari Hadits Hisyanm ibnu Urwah ditunjukkan bahwa Nabi yang sudah berumur 50 tahun menikahi gadis polos Siti Aisyah yang masih berumur 7 tahun. Siti Aisyah yang mestinya masih perlu dibimbing justru dijadikan istri. Dinegara manapun tidak akan pernah ada anak berusia 7 tahun diijinkan menikah. _ _ _ _ _ _ Yahoo! sekarang memiliki alamat Email baru. Dapatkan nama yang selalu Anda inginkan di domain baru @ymail dan @rocketmail. Cepat sebelum diambil orang lain! http://mail. promotions. yahoo.com/ newdomains/ id/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] _ _ _ _ _ _ Dapatkan alamat Email baru Anda! Dapatkan nama yang selalu Anda inginkan sebelum diambil orang lain! http://mail. promotions. yahoo.com/ newdomains/ id/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible
Dear ardy, guess you are a new kid on town in this milis:), let me give u a friendly advise, do not waste your precious time by replying to those hatemongers emails, saved your energy, it isn't worthed. indulge your selves and laugh when you read those email because they just doing that bcs they are desperate, and the only person that they want to convince with those kinda emails are them selves. just pity them, ok? carla --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Date: Wednesday, September 17, 2008, 11:11 PM Riri, yang ini juga belum ditanggapi, siapa yang sebenarnya pedofilia? Jangan memotong dan menyembunyikan ayat untuk kepentingan kotor. Keluaran 20:13 berbunyi : Keluaran 20:13 dan setelah TUHAN, Allahmu, menyerahkannya ke dalam tanganmu, maka haruslah engkau membunuh seluruh penduduknya yang laki-laki dengan mata pedang. Keluaran 20:13 isinya bukan seperti yang anda sampaikan dalam email. Justru yang pedofilia adalah Nabi Muhammad. Dari Hadits Hisyanm ibnu Urwah ditunjukkan bahwa Nabi yang sudah berumur 50 tahun menikahi gadis polos Siti Aisyah yang masih berumur 7 tahun. Siti Aisyah yang mestinya masih perlu dibimbing justru dijadikan istri. Dinegara manapun tidak akan pernah ada anak berusia 7 tahun diijinkan menikah. _ _ _ _ _ _ Yahoo! sekarang memiliki alamat Email baru. Dapatkan nama yang selalu Anda inginkan di domain baru @ymail dan @rocketmail. Cepat sebelum diambil orang lain! http://mail. promotions. yahoo.com/ newdomains/ id/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible
Hi Jimmy, ganti email id nih:) lebaran tidur lah di rumah...istirahat..:) --- On Thu, 9/18/08, Life is short. Make fun of it [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Life is short. Make fun of it [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Bls: [ppiindia] Pedofilia Balita Dan Teror Bible To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, September 18, 2008, 11:20 AM Dear Mba Carla, Long time not see Lebaran pada kemana ??? _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com] On Behalf Of carla annamarie kneefel Dear ardy, guess you are a new kid on town in this milis:), let me give u a friendly advise, do not waste your precious time by replying to those hatemongers emails, saved your energy, it isn't worthed. indulge your selves and laugh when you read those email because they just doing that bcs they are desperate, and the only person that they want to convince with those kinda emails are them selves. just pity them, ok? carla --- On Wed, 9/17/08, Ardi Setyawan [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:ardist05% 40yahoo.com com wrote: Riri, yang ini juga belum ditanggapi, siapa yang sebenarnya pedofilia? Jangan memotong dan menyembunyikan ayat untuk kepentingan kotor. Keluaran 20:13 berbunyi : Keluaran 20:13 dan setelah TUHAN, Allahmu, menyerahkannya ke dalam tanganmu, maka haruslah engkau membunuh seluruh penduduknya yang laki-laki dengan mata pedang. Keluaran 20:13 isinya bukan seperti yang anda sampaikan dalam email. Justru yang pedofilia adalah Nabi Muhammad. Dari Hadits Hisyanm ibnu Urwah ditunjukkan bahwa Nabi yang sudah berumur 50 tahun menikahi gadis polos Siti Aisyah yang masih berumur 7 tahun. Siti Aisyah yang mestinya masih perlu dibimbing justru dijadikan istri. Dinegara manapun tidak akan pernah ada anak berusia 7 tahun diijinkan menikah. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Ada yang salah dari Hari Kebangkitan Nasional..??
indonesia memang melalui perjuangan yang panjang utk mencapai kemerdekaan, tapi finalisasi dri kemerdekaan indonesia didapat dari diplomasi meja perundingan bukan dengan militer senjata indonesia kemudian mengusir penjajah (walaupun tidak dapat dipungkiri kenyataan slama 3.5 abad perjuangan dengan senjata oleh rakyat indo juga dilakukan) . faktor pendidikan adalah sangat penting untuk menunjang terwjudnya gerakan intelektual yang pada akhirnya para tokoh intelektual itu yang memperjuangkan kemerdekaan melalui diplomasi meja perundingan. tokoh2 intelektual rata2 lulusan sekolah blanda dan mengecap pendidikan tinggi dari blanda. Boedi oetomo punya azas dan tujuan pendidikan, tempat mengumpulkan kaum intelektual, melalui kekuatan pendidikan dan intelektual boedi oetomo mulai berpolitik untuk memperjuangkan kemerdekaan. dengan kekuatan diplomasi meja perundingan maka dapat terwujud finalisasi kemerdekaan. tanpa perjuangan yang dipelopori oleh kaum intelektual seperti organisasi boedi oetomo maka indonesia tidak akan bangkit , bangkit secara intelektual (pendidikan) baru bisa bangkit untuk merdeka. pertama2 merdeka dari belenggu kebodohan baru kemudian bangkit untuk melepas belenggu penjajahan. SI punya azas keagamaan, walaupun juga terdapat tujuan untuk memperjuangkan kemerdekaan tapi tidak efektif. - Original Message From: Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 8:18:12 PM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Ada yang salah dari Hari Kebangkitan Nasional..?? founding fathers kita dari segala kelompok, suku dan agama sudah bijak mengesampingkan semua perbedaan dan mencari titik temu. tak perlu menonjol-nonjolkan andil kelompok dalam perjuangan nasional. kita tinggal melanjutkan saja kok rewel? At 05:37 AM 4/30/2008 -0700, satrio arismunandar wrote: - Forwarded Message From: Guido Dewa [EMAIL PROTECTED] com Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:14:11 AM Subject: [kahmi_pro_network] Ada yang salah dari Hari Kebangkitan Nasional..?? Dear All, Mungkin para pakar sejarah bisa meluruskan kembali hal ini..?? Thanks. Guido Dewa assalamu alaikom, sebuah tulisan yg patut kita renungkan. gimana kita bisa memikirkan masa depan, kalau kita selalu disibukkan dengan upaya koreksi sejarah masa lalu. adakah pakar sejarah yg bisa mengkonfirmasi tulisan di bawah ini? wassalam, stovach 20 Mei Bukan Hari Kebangkitan Nasional (Bag.1) Sabtu, 19 Mei 07 10:08 WIB Kelahiran organisasi Boedhi Oetomo pada tanggal 20 Mei 1908 sesungguhnya amat tidak patut dan tidak pantas diperingati sebagai Hari Kebangkitan Nasional, karena organisasi ini mendukung penjajahan Belanda, sama sekali tidak pernah mencita-citakan Indonesia merdeka, a-nasionalis, anti agama, dan bahkan sejumlah tokohnya merupakan anggota Freemasonry Belanda (Vritmejselareen) . Dipilihnya tanggal 20 Mei sebagai Hari Kebangkitan Nasional, sesungguhnya merupakan suatu penghinaan terhadap esensi perjuangan merebut kemerdekaan yang diawali oleh tokoh-tokoh Islam yang dilakukan oleh para penguasa sekular. Karena organisasi Syarikat Islam (SI) yang lahir terlebih dahulu dari Boedhi Oetomo (BO), yakni pada tahun 1905, yang jelas-jelas bersifat nasionalis, menentang penjajah Belanda, dan mencita-citakan Indonesia merdeka, tidak dijadikan tonggak kebangkitan nasional. Mengapa BO yang terang-terangan antek penjajah Belanda, mendukung penjajahan Belanda atas Indonesia, a-nasionalis, tidak pernah mencita-citakan Indonesia merdeka, dan anti-agama malah dianggap sebagai tonggak kebangkitan bangsa? Ini jelas kesalahan yang teramat nyata. Anehnya, hal ini sama sekali tidak dikritisi oleh tokoh-tokoh Islam kita. Bahkan secara menyedihkan ada sejumlah tokoh Islam dan para Ustadz selebritis yang ikut-ikutan merayakan peringatan Hari Kebangkitan Nasional 20 Mei di berbagai event. Mereka ini sebenarnya telah melakukan sesuatu tanpa memahami esensi di balik hal yang dilakukannya. Rasulullah SAW telah mewajibkan umatnya untuk bersikap: Ilmu qabla amal (Ilmu sebelum mengamalkan) , yang berarti umat Islam wajib mengetahui duduk-perkara sesuatu hal secara benar sebelum mengerjakannya. Bahkan Sayyid Quthb di dalam karyanya Tafsir Baru Atas Realitas (1996) menyatakan orang-orang yang mengikuti sesuatu tanpa pengetahuan yang cukup adalah sama dengan orang-orang jahiliyah, walau orang itu mungkin seorang ustadz bahkan profesor. Jangan sampai kita Fa Innahu Minhum (kita menjadi golongan mereka) terhadap kejahiliyahan. Agar kita tidak terperosok berkali-kali ke dalam lubang yang sama, sesuatu yang bahkan tidak pernah dilakukan seekor keledai sekali pun, ada baiknya kita memahami siapa sebenarnya Boedhi Oetomo itu. Pendukung Penjajahan Belanda Akhir Februari 2003, sebuah amplop besar pagi-pagi telah tergeletak di atas meja kerja penulis. Pengirimnya KH. Firdaus AN, mantan Ketua Majelis Syuro Syarikat Islam kelahiran Maninjau tahun 1924. Di dalam amplop
Re: Fw: NY Times : A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama's Path Re: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar
dear pak Nug, i have been following obama's campaign actually from quite some time... and actually if u re scroll down my previous email, never once i mentioned that i favored mc'cain, pls dont change the subject. - Original Message From: Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 12:20:19 PM Subject: Re: Fw: NY Times : A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama's Path Re: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar carla, sila google juga mccain lies dan mccain iraq. saya heran ada perempuan menyukai orang yang berhati kejam dan pembunuh sesamanya di belahan dunia lain. jangan terlalu sentimental terhadap mccain semata karena dia rajin kotbah di gereja dan gigih membela israel. yesus pasti sedih melihat orang kristen seperti dia. obama memang tak pernah menjadi jaksa, tapi itu tak menjadikan dia kurang kompeten untuk menjadi presiden amerika. apa yang anda maksud sebagai gereja rasis? ayolah carla, anda tahu sejarah gereja kulit hitam di amerika yang berdiri karena diskriminasi rasial kaum kulit putih. kulit hitam tak boleh mengikuti kebaktian di gereja kulit putih padahal mereka sama-sama kristen! sebagai orang indonesia kepentingan saya jelas di indonesia. saya percaya bila obama menjadi presiden dia bisa membawa kebaikan ke seluruh dunia, termasuk ke indonesia. kepentingan anda dimana, carla? berikut ini komentar seorang pemirsa tentang tayangan kotbah pendeta obama yang terus menerus disiarkan fox news. Posted by Gail on April 1, 2008, 1:02 pm FOX NEWS is completely full of bias right wing conservatives who have taken their control over the media and brought a disgrace to the American public. They were also the ones behind the whole controversy of Barrack being Muslim and NOW they are pulling this pastor business up out of their ass. No other station has any interest in this and does not replay over and OVER and OVER the same misconstrued news clip or reporting quite like this. They should be taken off the air. This should be illegal soal polling obama vs mccain, lihat data yang saya ambil dari realclearpolitics. com dibawah ini. lihat spread di antara keduanya dalam polling dari november tahun lalu sampai maret tahun ini. See All General Election: McCain vs. Obama Commentary News Stories Polling Data PollDateSampleObama (D)McCain (R)UndSpread RCP Average03/18 - 03/31-44.244. 48.8McCain +0.2 Rasmussen Tracking03/28 - 03/311700 LV414712McCain +6.0 Gallup Tracking03/27 - 03/314409 RV44464McCain +2.0 NBC/WSJ03/24 - 03/25800 RV44427Obama +2.0 Pew Research03/19 - 03/221,248 RV49438Obama +6.0 FOX News03/18 - 03/19900 RV434413McCain +1.0 CBS News03/15 - 03/18RV48436Obama +5.0 CNN03/14 - 03/16950 RV47461Obama +1.0 USA Today/Gallup03/ 14 - 03/15685 LV49473Obama +2.0 Reuters/Zogby03/ 13 - 03/141004 LV4046--McCain +6.0 NBC/WSJ03/07 - 03/101,012 RV47445Obama +3.0 Cook/RT Strategies03/ 06 - 03/09802 RV434511McCain +2.0 Newsweek03/05 - 03/061,215 RV46459Obama +1.0 Cook/RT Strategies02/ 28 - 03/02802 RV473812Obama +9.0 ABC/Wash Post02/28 - 03/02LV53423Obama +11.0 LA Times/Bloomberg02/ 21 - 02/25RV42449McCain +2.0 AP-Ipsos02/22 - 02/24755 RV51412Obama +10.0 USA Today/Gallup02/ 21 - 02/241653 LV47482McCain +1.0 CBS News/NY Times02/20 - 02/241115 RV50387Obama +12.0 Pew Research02/20 - 02/241240 RV50437Obama +7.0 FOX News02/19 - 02/20900 RV474310Obama +4.0 Hotline/FD02/ 14 - 02/17803 RV48409Obama +8.0 Reuters/Zogby02/ 13 - 02/16928 LV474013Obama +7.0 USA Today/Gallup02/ 08 - 02/10706 LV50464Obama +4.0 AP-Ipsos02/07 - 02/101,029 A48428Obama +6.0 Time02/01 - 02/04958 LV48416Obama +7.0 CNN02/01 - 02/03974 RV52444Obama +8.0 Cook/RT Strategies01/ 31 - 02/02855 RV45439Obama +2.0 ABC/Wash Post01/30 - 02/011249 A49463Obama +3.0 FOX News01/30 - 01/31900 RV444313Obama +1.0 NPR01/29 - 01/311000 LV47483McCain +1.0 Rasmussen01/ 25 - 01/271200 LV414712McCain +6.0 NBC/WSJ01/20 - 01/221008 A42426Tie LA Times/Bloomberg01/ 18 - 01/221312 RV414212McCain +1.0 Rasmussen01/ 16 - 01/17800 LV464113Obama +5.0 USA Today/Gallup01/ 10 - 01/131106 LV45502McCain +5.0 Hotline/FD01/ 10 - 01/12803 RV413911Obama +2.0 CNN01/09 - 01/10840 RV4948--Obama +1.0 Rasmussen01/ 04 - 01/06800 LV434611McCain +3.0 FOX News12/18 - 12/19900 RV404417McCain +4.0 Zogby12/12 - 12/141000 LV474310Obama +4.0 CNN12/06 - 12/09RV48481Tie Rasmussen11/ 26 - 11/27800 LV12Tie Rasmussen11/ 16 - 11/17800 LV464311Obama +3.0 Gallup11/11 - 11/14897 RV47444Obama +3.0 Quinnipiac10/ 23 - 10/291636 RV43438Tie LA Times/Bloomberg10/ 19 - 10/22522 RV443613Obama +8.0 FOX News09/25 - 09/26900 RV403822Obama +2.0 Rasmussen09/ 19 - 09/20800 LV464113Obama +5.0 Quinnipiac08/ 07 - 08/131545 LV433911Obama +4.0 Rasmussen08/ 01 - 08/02800 LV464014Obama +6.0 FOX News07/17 - 07/18900 RV473716Obama +10.0 Rasmussen07/ 16 - 07/171029 LV473815Obama +9.0 Zogby07/12 - 07/141012 LV4542--Obama +3.0 CNN06/22 - 06/24907 RV48443Obama +4.0 Newsweek06/20 - 06/21831 RV51418Obama +10.0 Rasmussen06/ 13 - 06/14800 LV463816Obama +8.0 USA
Re: Fw: NY Times : A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama's Path Re: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar
pak Nug, the inexperiences thing is not the only reason i think he's not qualified. read my email below. observe his interviews, his speeches and read his books and then compared to objective facts. he is repeteadly lying and fabricating. btw i suggest u read abt his profile carefully . obama was never been a district attorney (jaksa), after graduated from harvard he became community organizer, university lecturer, and civil right lawyer, running public office serve illinois from 1997-2004, he became junior senator in 2005. so he never been a D.A/ jaksa (check ur fact). i know that indonesia has sentimental feeling fot this guy just because he was lived here during certain time, and maybe indonesian people feel connected somehow to him and endorsed him to be US president. but see the facts objectively. obama's said he will bring unity to american people, but for some 20 years he has been a member of racial church whom his pastor also his spiritual mentor is a racist pastor who preach hateful sermons about america and white american, it's kinda strange to find him with his slogan about unity. he sells his words about unity bcs it's suitable of his profile half white-and half african, he is a good political package though and sold out. i admired his capability of speech, he is an excellence orator, and he is intelligent man( he is a harvard grad) i dont doubt it for a sec, but i question his judgement and honesty. about obama, his lies and fabrications re damaging his campaign and the DNC, because the facts re all there. as i said to my fam and relatives in US. choose wisely. think, analize then choose. unfortunately dems only have two candidates, obama and hillary, obama's won the popular vote so far from hillary. the next DNC convention where the vote of super delegates will determine who is dem's president nominee. there'll be a bloody fight inside the dems. recently hillary too has been caught of lying about her trip in bosnia when she said she was under gun fired. tough choice for dems. maybe al gore will save the day. who knows. as one of my democrat friends said maybe for the first time in his life he will be voting for republican..:)). dems have trouble of screening their candidates (remember john kerry and michale dukakis) and now the glowbama. the latest national polls obama vs mc'cain, dated 18/03 - 1/04: 1. RCP average : Obama (44.2%)- Mc'cain (44.4%) 2. Rassmussen tracking: obama (41%) - M'cain (47%) 3.Gallup tracking: obama (44%) - Mc'cain (46%) check the fact. try google and youtube:) the keyword obama's lies. - Original Message From: Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 3, 2008 2:00:26 PM Subject: Re: Fw: NY Times : A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama's Path Re: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar carla, lebih absurd lagi mengatakan obama tidak layak menjadi presiden karena dia cuma seorang junior senator yang tidak berpengalaman. ha-ha-ha, he is an alected senator. enggak ada perbedaan wewenang atau kewajiban antara senator yang sudah lama maupun yang baru bertugas. sudah lama amerika tak punya pemimpin yang bisa menyatukan rakyat yang berbeda-beda. obama dianggap punya kemampuan itu. sudah lama amerika tak punya presiden yang bisa menulis pidatonya sendiri. obama adalah seorang orator dan penulis pidato yang jenius. di amerika, seorang pedagang minyak atau bekas aktor hollywood saja bisa menjadi presiden. mengapa seorang ahli hukum yang tangguh lulusan harvard, pernah menjadi jaksa dan senator, dianggap tak cukup punya kualifikasi untuk menjadi presiden? lebih dari segalanya, saya percaya sejak dari keluarga obama punya kemampuan memimpin amerika dan sekaligus menjadi pemimpin dunia yang beragam, karena dia punya nenek muslimah berkulit hitam yang masih hidup dan tinggal di tepi danau victoria di kenya. dia punya saudara tiri perempuan berdarah indonesia. dia punya keluarga kulit putih dan indian dari pihak ibu. dia punya ipar seorang cina warga negara kanada. apa lagi yang kurang dari obama? sementara mccain dan huckabee rajin berkotbah di gereja, sambil pada saat yang sama meniupkan perang dimana-mana dan membunuhi wanita dan anak-anak di irak. mereka juga menewaskan 4.000 serdadu amerika sendiri dalam 5 tahun perang di irak. jumlah itu bahkan lebih besar dari korban tewas selama 10 tahun perang vietnam. maka sudah sepantasnya obama mendapat suara lebih banyak ketimbang mccain dalam polling yang dilakukan berbagai lembaga independen di amerika. ngomong-ngomong apa yang anda maksud dengan mainstream media? di amerika, mainstream media adalah cnn, fox news, dll yang semuanya embedded media yang berbaris rapi di belakang bush dan partai republik. At 05:27 PM 4/2/2008 -0700, you wrote: pak Nug, it's good obama has a mother that also love indonesia, but it's absurd and irrelevant to related it whether he is capable or not to be the next US
Re: NY Times : A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama's Path Re: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar
dear budi, scroll down all my comments before, not a single word i stated abt preferences for mc'cain or huckabee, or did i ever wrote abt robertson or falwell, show some logical sense here..ok? u made some assumption that i liked robertson and falwell bcs i objectively show the facts that obama's lying and fabricating? if u want to argue, argue by facts not cheap assumption. it's more respectful that u could refute my facts statement abt obama rather than made some ad hominem assumption. if u want to make some reply-argument, before u make some reply, pls equip ur self with some knowledge about this issue, try google or youtube, key word obama lies, then u come back here to have some logical and intelligent debate. if not. dont waste ur time to debate ok? save it for another issue that u certainly beyond reasonable doubt have some knowledge about it. stay logic and objective. objective facts hurts. politician..welcome to independent-thinker zone. have a nice day carla - Original Message From: budiartobobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 4, 2008 7:58:34 AM Subject: Fw: NY Times : A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama's Path Re: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] . wrote: carla mungkin lebih suka mc'cain atau huckabee yang suka kotbah di gereja? Iyo, Carla iki kok modele esmosi banget karo Obama yo, sak jane ono opo toh Mbakyu Carla iki.?? Koyo suarane Pantat Robertson dan almarhum Jerry Falwell opo Mbak Carla iki lagi stress soale satu- satune capres Wedhok makin keteteran... Lah mbok jadi Wapres aja toh si Hilary itu... gitu aja kok refot.. he he he You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Fw: NY Times : A Free-Spirited Wanderer Who Set Obama's Path Re: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar
Indonesians
---( ihsan hm )--- -
--- In carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote:
glowbama.., is one of the worst US candidate for
president.., but some public n mainstream media love
him..,glowbama just another typical politician who use
charm, looks and smooth talks. poor america if he
ever elected president.
- Original Message
From: Sandy Dwiyono [EMAIL PROTECTED] .
- - - - -
Obama Didukung Senator Senior, Hillary Diminta Mundur
- - - - -
PITTSBURGH, SABTU - Barack Obama secara mengejutkan
mendapat dukungan dari Senator Pennsylvania Bob Casey
Jr. Ini merupakan keuntungan besar bagi Obama menghadapi
pemilihan pendahuluan di negara bagian besar itu.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total
Access, No Cost.
http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
***
Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg
Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny.
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Re: [ppiindia] Obama Makin Bersinar
glowbama.., is one of the worst US candidate for president.., but some public n mainstream media love him..,glowbama just another typical politician who use charm, looks and smooth talks. poor america if he ever elected president. - Original Message From: Sandy Dwiyono [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 10:13:47 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Obama Makin Bersinar http://www.kompas. com/read. php?cnt=. xml.2008. 03.29.1258583 channel=1 mn=9idx= 25 Obama Didukung Senator Senior, Hillary Diminta Mundur PITTSBURGH, SABTU - Barack Obama secara mengejutkan mendapat dukungan dari Senator Pennsylvania Bob Casey Jr. Ini merupakan keuntungan besar bagi Obama menghadapi pemilihan pendahuluan di negara bagian besar itu. Dengan dukungan Casey itu, Obama berharap bisa merebut kembali kepercayaan dari kelompok kulit putih, kelas buruh dan pemilih Katolik. Ketiga kelompok ini selama ini lebih condong mendukung Hillary. Di saat yang sama, para pendukung Obama mendesak Hillary Clinton mundur dari pencalonan karena dianggap tidak punya peluang cukup untuk memenangi persaingan. Dukungan Casey itu agak mengejutkan, karena awal Maret lalu ia menyatakan tidak akan melimpahkan dukungan baik untuk Obama maupun Hillary demi persatuan partai. Namun ia mencabut pernyataannya dan ikut dalam bus kampanye Obalam selama enam hari. Obama tampaknya sangat membutuhkan bantuan Casey untuk mendapatkan sebagian besar dari 158 delegasi yang akan diperbutkan di Pennsylvania. Ini merupakan hadiah terbesar yang pernah diperebutkan dalam satu pemilihan pendahuluan. Saya percaya orang ini Obama), seperti ayah saya, satu-satunya kandidat yang saya pernah saya percaya, kata Casey dalam kampanye di Pittsburg, Jumat (28/3) atau Sabtu (29/3) waktu Indonesia. Banyak yang memandang keputusan Casey menjadi bagian dari pukulan politik untuk keluarga Clinton. Bill Clinton menjadi unggulan Partai Demokrat dalam pemilu 1992, namun saat itu ayah Casey, tokoh senior Demokrat, tidak mendapat bagian dalam pidato prime time dan itu membuat marah kalangan Demokrat konservatif. Namun Casey menegaskan keputusannya itu tidak terkait hubungan masa lalu dengan keluarga Clinton. Casey mengaku keputusannya itu juga didorong suasana di dalam keluarga yang seluruh anggotanya sangat antusias pada pencalonan Obama, termasuk anak perempuannya. Saya banyak memikirkan soal ini saat liburan Paskah, katanya. Senator Patrick Leahy dari Vermont yang melimpahkan dukungannya pada Obama Januari lalu, mendesak Hillary mengakhiri perlawanannya. Alasannya, Hillary tidak akan mendapatkan cukup delegasi untuk mengalahkan Obama. Leahy termasuk tokoh Demokrat yang khawatir soal kesiapan calon mereka, padahal John McCain dari Partai Republik sudah melaju sendirian sebelum konvensi nasional. Sebaiknya Hillary melempar handuk, demi kemenangan Demokrat November nanti, kata Leahy. Meski begitu Hillary merasa masih punya alasan untuk melanjutkan pertarungan. Dalam jajak pendapat menjelang pemilihan pendahuluan itu, Hillary unggul dua digit. Ia berharap memenangi kontes di Pennsylvania dengan harapan para pejabat Demokrat tetap percaya dia mampu dan mendapatkan lebih banyak delegasi super untuk mengalahkan Obama. Hillary juga merasa masih mendapat dukungan yang cukup untuk bertarung di Pennsylvania. Ia menggenggam dukungan Wali Kota Philadelphia Michael Nutter, anggota Kongres antiperang John Murtha dan terutama Gubenur Pennsylvania Ed Rendell.(AP) SAS _ _ _ _ _ _ Special deal for Yahoo! users friends - No Cost. Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now http://tc.deals. yahoo.com/ tc/blockbuster/ text3.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] OMG, Sweet deal for Yahoo! users/friends:Get A Month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. W00t http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text2.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar
hee..hee.. for sure im not favouring obama to be the next US president. it's not abt right or left wings.., nor about conservative or liberal, if u made such case obama he is very liberal, he is pro-abortion and pro gay marriage. but it's not abt whether he's pro abortion or pro gay marriage..but the way he represented him self, actually american public dont know much abt this junior senator from chicago, his track record showed little and less of expriences, his close relationship with tony rezko (who recently convicted for federal crime and now in prison) has triggered some questions, his indecisive n lack of judgement regarding his former spritual mentor made people questioned his patriotism and his ability to be the next commander in chief, he seems to be people pleaser, too charming looked like a saviour, he got the pesona that drawn ppl to him. thats is his best ability. he reminded me of SBY actually when i first saw him on TV..:) just reminded me of SBY when SBY campaigning as indo president.SBY 's body language, the way he talks, the way he used his hands when he talks.., but later on proven indecisive? anyway obama's winning the electoral votes is bcs of race, 90 % of african-american vote for him, and the rest of it just liberal white ppl (mostly gay ppl and pro-abortion activist, and hollywood celebrity). based on track record and experiences...he's not strong on that... it's so amazed that he is winning rite now in dems party. dems re 75% african-american and the rest re white. too bad dems party must stuck with this guy, like it or not this is their guy. he won electoral vote slightly to hillary. it's more good to dem if their nominee is hillary. glowbama is a glowing and rising star..but if u looked close enough he just typical politician that sells words, sweet words.., but no proven action and no track record to prove. too bad many american ppl ate those words. and it worst if they believe it. i guess handsome, charming, and sweet talks, re american best quality rite now for president. too bad and so shameful that the most superpower nation in the whole world will have inexperience, not proven track record, no credible junior senator as presidential nominee. if he is junior senator..it's ok lah, but to be the next US president..God forbid. for the dems convention, hillary must win the super delegate vote to be the dems presidential nominee. and for right or left wing..., im an independent , pak imuchtarom.. a little bit traditional thinking and a little bit liberal...:). cheers Carla - Original Message From: imuchtarom [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 3:02:03 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Obama Makin Bersinar so, who is your preference for the next US president, Carla? of course it has been interesting that in this mailing list we can see different points of view: - those from right-wing Indonesians - those from right-wing Westerners - and those from left-wing Indonesians ---( ihsan hm )--- - --- In carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ ... wrote: glowbama.., is one of the worst US candidate for president.., but some public n mainstream media love him..,glowbama just another typical politician who use charm, looks and smooth talks. poor america if he ever elected president. - Original Message From: Sandy Dwiyono [EMAIL PROTECTED] . - - - - - Obama Didukung Senator Senior, Hillary Diminta Mundur - - - - - PITTSBURGH, SABTU - Barack Obama secara mengejutkan mendapat dukungan dari Senator Pennsylvania Bob Casey Jr. Ini merupakan keuntungan besar bagi Obama menghadapi pemilihan pendahuluan di negara bagian besar itu. You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost. http://tc.deals.yahoo.com/tc/blockbuster/text5.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Polemik Amran - Ulil : Membandingkan Keburukan Melegalkan Kejahatan
dear all, the substantial message from ulil re abt democracy and liberty. evey one have their individual rights. the pattern of argument of amran is typical of fundies's mind-set. they re fatalistic, poor, primitive, unproductive. as if the moslem had never had choice of making decision abt whether to kill or not to kill, whether to slaughter or not to slaugther, whether to hate or not to hate, the perception of reality is completely disoriented, it's turned up-side down, and what do they have to justify all crimes perpetrated in the name of islam? faith. machiavelli said the end justifies the means. and their typical justification is two evil wrongs Do make a right. christianity and western civilisation have their own dark and evil past. but they learn from it. and move on. it's high time for they to understood the rest of the world didn't stop 800 years ago: they've got stuck, because it's their fundamentalistic ideology that has always prevented them from making any headway. The Crusaders still exist exclusively in their minds. The Crusades ended ages ago, The tragic thing is they invent their enemies, because they've been trapped in they distemepered imagination for centuries and the most unbelievable thing of all is that they won't step out of that insanity. non-muslim run away from their homes, they re afraid of the folly of hatred. lebanon, sudan and somalia, iraq re the example. Muslim brother in Afghanistan are taking hostages foreign aid workers and tried to forced them to convert into Islam by showing guns and threatening death to them. the Islamic theocratic state like Saudi Arabia, Emirate is imposed bans on practicing and preaching of other religions like Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, Buddhism on their country. fundamentalistic ppl against all forms aof liberty and democracy, that bring a question If fundies Islam is against all the basic liberties (and it is), can you please tell us how it is supposed to work by itself if it ties your hands in the first place? Who is it that can rule islamically if not a dictator that makes decisions that you cannot question? Do you want a dictator to rule you? Isn't that what you already have where you live? Does Islam make your home-country a paradise? Hypothetically speaking, if it's your Islam that can rescue us from the problems created by our democracy, how is it that your Islam has never once worked for you Moslems in your own countries? And how can you know that democracy cannot work for you if you've never once experienced it throughout your history? How do you explain the fact that all islamic countires have all sorts of problems and certainly many more problems than any other democratic country? fundies Islam promotes itself as the perfect society as laid out by Allah. Now sir, if Allah is God, that makes Allah perfect; if Allah is perfect then He must create only perfect things; if Allah created the perfect society through Islam then it stands to logic that Islamic societies should have NO problems. But the most dysfunctional societies on the face of the planet are nearly ALL Islamic. because a perfect god would not create such a mess as is found in Islamic societies. - Original Message From: Thesaints Now [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 4:28:48 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Polemik Amran - Ulil : Membandingkan Keburukan Melegalkan Kejahatan Setelah mengamati Polemik antara Amran - yang kelihatannya mengusung ide Islam Neo-Konservatif -(HT, JI, Wahabi, IM/PKS cs.) dengan Ulil dari JIL, ada satu Masalah Penting yang bisa dicermati terutama dari tulisan-tulisan Amran. Tulisan Amran yang cenderung melegitimasi Persekusi/Penganiay aan atas Perbedaan Keyakinan oleh kelompok Mayoritas terhadap Minoritas, dikomentari dan dikritik oleh Mas Ulil. Dalam tulisannya Ulil menambahkan beberapa informasi Membandingkan Dunia Timur yang Majo Muslim dengan Dunia Barat yang Majo Kristen/Atheis. Kemudian Amran membeberkan beberapa kekeliruan Ulil mengenai beberapa informasi aktual dan kemudian Berkali-Kali membantah Ulil mengenai kebebasan di Barat dengan mengemukakan beberapa Fakta sejarah adanya Diskriminasi dan Penganiayaan terhadap Minoritas di Barat karena Masalah Perbedaan Keyakinan. Jawaban Ulil cukup melegakan, ia legowo untuk mengakui beberapa salah ketik dan koreksi yang diberikan Amran pada beberapa Informasi seperti masa jabatan Gubernur yang kebetulan tokoh Mormon. Meskipun demikian kekeliruan soal fakta seperti itu sebenarnya sama sekali tidak menyentuh TOPIK MENDASAR yang dibicarakan mengenai Kebebasan Agama dan Berkeyakinan. Kalau kita mengacu pada Nilai-Nilai Universal yang sudah dicantumkan dalam Piagam PBB maka seharusnya Kebebasan Setiap orang untuk memeluk AGAMA, untuk Menjalankannya sesuai dengan Keyakinannya harus dijamin dan dilindungi di setiap negara. Satu-satunya ALASAN yang membebaskan Negara dari kewajiban tsb adalah
Re: [ppiindia] Darwinism (a different scientific perspective)
dear all fyi, we know that there're creation vs evolution theory. however a darwin's theory abt evolution has been a debate for century. all scientists in the world re still argue and dont have a common theory abt how is the world created. The way we think and teach about the origins of life should be reevaluated in light of the lack of evidence supporting the neo-Darwinian Evolution Model, and the increasing evidence in support of Intelligent Design. OUTLINE: I. Defining the terms used in the discussion of creation versus evolution is essential to understanding the issues. A. Evolution can mean change over time. B. Evolution can mean the special theory of evolution (microevolution). C. Evolution can mean the general theory of evolution (macroevolution) which is very different from microevolution. D. Theistic evolution is an oxymoron. E. Science can study the created as well as the evolved. F. Creation and evolution is not religion versus science, but is really the science of one religion versus the science of another religion. G. Intelligent design originates in a mind. II. Biochemistry, a world of ever-increasing complexity. A. Behe uses the flagellum to introduce the concept of irreducible complexity. B. When an organism is irreducibly complex it cannot have evolved. C. For evolution to be true, life must have evolved from non-life. D. At present all discussions on principle theories and experiments in the field of abiogenesis either end in stalemate or in a confession of ignorance. III. For neo-Darwinian evolution to be true, organisms must have gradually developed over time, and should appear in the fossil record. A. The fossil record does not show a pervasive pattern of gradualism. B. The fossil record now appears to be much more complex and much less gradualistic than originally thought. IV. Thaxton points out that the discovery of the DNA molecule has given rise to huge advances in our understanding of molecular biology. A. The DNA code is a genetic language that communicates information to the cell. B. Information theory is the science of message transmission. C. DNA and written language both exhibit the property of specified complexity. D. DNA has opened the possibility of seeing true design in the universe. The sciences of astronomy, biology, biochemistry, and paleontology have made huge advancements in the last 30 years. the Big Bang theory points to a definite beginning to the universe. The disciplines of genetics, microbiology, and biochemistry have found that the building blocks of life are far more complex than were ever imagined. Paleontology has discovered that some fossil evidences, once thought to be supportive of Darwin's theory of evolution, were actually hoaxes or simply misclassified, and it has been frustrated in its attempt to find transitional fossils that support gradual evolution. These discoveries, along with many others, have spawned a new scientific movement within the origins of life research community. The intelligent design movement is challenging the major presupposition of current biological science, which is that all life evolved through a gradual natural process, from non-living matter to simple microorganisms, and eventually to man. Evolution is a term referring to completely different processes depending on the context in which it is used. It is often used to mean change over time. By this general definition theology evolves, cities evolve, and life itself evolves. This kind of evolution is not in dispute, and showing these kinds of changes does nothing to prove Darwinian evolution. Evolution is also used to mean the special theory of evolution or microevolution. Microevolution refers to small changes taking place in nature over time, which produce new characteristics. These are adaptive changes that work through natural selection, and allow the organism to survive and reproduce. Some examples of microevolution would be changes in the beaks of finches, changes in the coloring of peppered moths, or changes in a bacteria's ability to resist antibiotics. Microevolution has been substantiated scientifically, it is not in conflict with the creation accounts, and like change over time, it is not in dispute. Finally, the general theory of evolution, or macroevolution, is an extrapolation of the special theory of evolution and is used to explain the origins of all life on earth. Macroevolution is the theory that asserts the common ancestry of all living things; that one species can evolve from another, and that all life originated from a pre-biotic soup. Evidence in support of microevolution (the special theory) such as the Galopagos finches or the peppered moths, cannot be used in support of macroevolution (the general theory) because they are not the same thing. One final use of the term evolution is in the context of theistic evolution. Theistic evolution assumes that the basic conclusions of
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan (abt teroris n setan)
God and Devil. when there's Good, there's God when there's Evil, there's Devil. God produces Good, Devil produce Evil. logically speaking. - Original Message From: hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 8:50:11 AM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan Betul sekali Mbak. Namun apabila kalimat tsb saya balikkan ke mbah Danar nanti malah nggak rampung-rampung diskusinya. Mbah Danar bilang gurunya para teroris itu setan. Pihak teroris akan balik mengatakan gurunya mbah Danar yang setan. Lha daripada mbulet ya mending seperti itu aja kali ya? Salam mending Hakim - Original Message - From: riri cute To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2007 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan penafsiran yang benar itu bukan dari kacamata manusia, tapi dari Allah. yang datang dari Allah sudah termaktub dalam Al Qur'an dan Hadist, jika ada yang menyimpang dari kedua hal tersebut, maka sudah pasti penafsiran tersebut keliru besar. pengetahuan manusia itu tak se apa2nya pengetahuan Allah, begitu kan mas Hakim? salam, sFe hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id wrote: Kalau mbah Danar menafsirkan seperti itu ya boleh-boleh saja. Iya to mbah? atau Pak Asnawi menafsirkan lain lagi ya boleh-boleh saja. Masak gak boleh? Masak gitu saja dilarang ya mbah. Boleh saja silahkan..silahkan. Monggo..monggo. Jangankan setan yang nggak kelihatan ya mbah, lha wong body language kita atau ekspresi wajah kita bisa saja ditafsirkan berbeda oleh orang lain. Gak usah digawe mumet ya mbah? Salam gak mumet Hakim - Original Message - From: RM Danardono HADINOTO To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:01 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bukan apa-apa, karena kalau tanpa guru yang baik dan benar, takutnya nanti setan yang menjadi gurunya. Salam Penafsiran Hakim Saya jadi ingat pada almarhum Muhamad Atta yang dengan segala keyakinan akan ajaran agamanya, justru membunuh begitu banyak manusia dengan pesawat yang dikemudikannya. Karena menurut dia, semua orang selain yang sepaham dengan dia, patut dimusnahkan. Mungkin ini yang mas Hakim maksudkan dengan setan yang menjadi gurunya. Ini pasti juga sama dengan para teroris, Amrozy dkk ya mas? Tapi ada yang gurunya Ba'ashir, lho, masa Ba'ashir itu setan? Mas tahu tidak kebetulan, siapa gurunya bung Haris? jangan jangan... Piye mas? salam Danardono Disclaimer: Although this message has been checked for all known viruses using Trend Micro InterScan Messaging Security Suite, Bukopin accept no liability for any loss or damage arising from the use of this E-Mail or attachments. Disclaimer: Although this message has been checked for all known viruses using Trend Micro InterScan Messaging Security Suite, Bukopin accept no liability for any loss or damage arising from the use of this E-Mail or attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - - --- Make the switch to the world's best email. Get the new Yahoo!7 Mail now. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Disclaimer: Although this message has been checked for all known viruses using Trend Micro InterScan Messaging Security Suite, Bukopin accept no liability for any loss or damage arising from the use of this E-Mail or attachments. Disclaimer: Although this message has been checked for all known viruses using Trend Micro InterScan Messaging Security Suite, Bukopin accept no liability for any loss or damage arising from the use of this E-Mail or attachments. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan
i agree with u ...pak Nugroho. all religions re potential fundies. as for hindhu, budhist, christian, and judaist, re not spared for critism and examination. as for hindhu cant justified and claimed that his religion is more righteous than budhist, the same as christian cant claimed and justified their religion as the best religion than islam. bcs when every religion justified and claimed themselves to the best, the pure, the righteous, the world will be doomed. it's the end of our civilization. continuing critism and examinations regarding religious ppl (in all religion) is productive. - Original Message From: Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:29:25 PM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan jangan lupa pak danar, fundamentalisme bukan cuma ada di agama islam. kristen, hindu, bahkan budha mengidap potensi yang sama. kalau kita baca sejarah, perilaku ekstrem di kalangan budha bahkan sudah terjadi semasa sang budha masih hidup. dilakukan oleh orang dekat sekaligus murid-muridnya sendiri yaitu tatta dan dewadatta. At 02:45 PM 11/28/2007 +, you wrote: Benar mas, semoga fundamentalist ini juga belajar dari sejarah bangsa kita sendiri, dimana pembrontakan pembrontakan dan kekerasan atas nama agama telah menyengsarakan rakyat kita. Mereka terlalu muda rupanya untuk memahami dampak pembrontakan DI/TII dan sejenisnya disepanjang tahun 50an sampai awal 60an. Juga orang orang yang gila kekerasan macam Amrozy dkk yang malah menjadi idola mereka. Tetapi saya yakin, setiap upaya mengubah hakekat bangsa ini menjadi negara agama akan dihadapi oleh selurh jajaran anak bangsa, dikawal oleh angkatan bersenjata negara ini. Semoga mereka belajar dari sejarah. Salam Danardono --- In mailto:ppiindia% 40yahoogroups. com[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] . wrote: bung asnawi, saya pikir orang-orang fundamentalis ini kaum yang a-historis. mereka tak tahu sejarah islam atau sengaja tak mau tahu. mungkin juga mereka orang-orang romantis. mereka berangan-angan umat islam selalu bersatu dan hidup bersama secara akur dan harmonis. mereka bayangkan kulafaur-rasyidin adalah empat pemimpin yang rukun dan selalu berdiskusi dengan damai. mereka pikir umat juga selalu menghormati keempat kalifah itu dengan penuh takzim. nama keempatnya disebut dengan penuh hormat setiap salat tarawih seperti sekarang dilakukan di indonesia dan negara pengikut ahlus-sunah yang lain. padahal selama 90 tahun setelah wafatnya ali, mimbar mesjid penuh berisi cela dan sumpah serapah terhadap ali dan keluarganya (yang nota bene merupakan keluarga nabi). aksi kutukan itu baru berakhir di era kalifah umar bin abdul aziz yang cuma terentang 2,5 tahun. betapa di zaman dinasti umayah (dan dinasti lain), sesama umat saling bertempur dan membunuh. hajaj bin yusuf, salah satu algojo yazid bin muawiyah, mengepung mekah dan secara membabi-buta menembak kabah menggunakan katapel raksasa yang membuat kabah rusak berat. bahkan batu hitam hajar aswad pernah dicuri dan dilarikan selama 20 tahun. semua itu sejarah kelam yang seharusnya menjadi pelajaran. janganlah kita mengulangi pertumpahan darah yang disebabkan klaim kebenaran. mari kita saling menghargai perbedaan dan tak perlu saling menyesatkan. periode saling menghargai itu juga pernah terjadi dalam sejarah islam dan itu yang membuat peradaban umat islam mengalami masa jaya. At 02:05 PM 11/28/2007 +0700, you wrote: Pertama, Mas haris, saya sarankan membaca buku-buku fikih muqoron (perbandingan mazhab) agar bisa mengerti mengapa term musyrik, kafir, fasik dll masuk dalam kajian fikih. Kalo mas haris mengerti pasti mas haris tidak heran dan tidak bertanya demikian. Kedua, kalo mas haris juga paham sejarah islam, sejak Muhammad wafat bahkan sebelum jasadnya dikuburkan umat islam sudah terpecah belah. Mas haris bisa baca buku standar al-milal wan-nihal karya sahrastani, kalo kesulitan dengan teks arab sudah ada terjemahannya kok. Atau bisa juga baca buku al- firaq al-islamiyyin wakhtilafil mushollin karya Muhammad Ghazali, tapi belum ada terjemahannya. Dari judulnya saja sudah mengakui tentang perpecahan dan perselisihan dalam tubuh umat Islam. Ketiga, saat mas haris meminta saya membuktikan perbedaan rukun iman dan rukun islam dalam 4 mazhab lagi-lagi menunjukan bahwa mas haris tidak paham islam. Tapi hanya fikih. Jadi layaknya mas haris disebut FIKIHIS bukan islamis. Sebab istilah 4 mazhab itu hanya popular dalam istilah fikih. Sedangkan masalah rukun islam dan rukun iman ini adalah persoalan teologi atau dalam bahasa islam disebut KALAM. Artinya, perbedaan rukun islam dan rukun islam itu terjadi antara satu mazhab teologi dengan mazhab teologi yang lain. Misalnya antara mazhab syi'ah dengan mazhab Sunny dan mazhab mu'tazilah.
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
dear all, generally fundamentalist ppl avoid dialogue altogether. They believe that there is no need to prove their belief and that everyone must accept it readily once they are called to do so. Converting a fundamentalistic belief is very much an emotional rather than rational experience. Emotions act on the most primitive part of the brain. They are stronger and supersede the rational mind. As the result, it is not easy to reason with these type of ppl. They wont leave their belief system through reason alone. Their strong emotion towards their belief shields them from reason altogether. Their entire self esteem depends on how others perceive them and what they say about them. This is a key to understand their idiosyncrasy. A narcissist depends on compliments because in them he/she finds his/her narcissistic supplies. It is through the compliments of others that the narcissist finds his/she own validation and raison d'être. To a certain extent we all are narcissists. We want to be noticed. We seek attention. We want to matter. This craving is so strong that some even commit crime to elicit attention. Vandals destroy, so they can be noticed. Through vandalism they can see their handiwork and feel important. The same psychology is what motivates a serial arsonist or even a serial killer.. For a narcissist, the most important thing is the image. fundamentalist Muslims depend on the image of Islam for their self esteem. Having lost their identity and being left with nothing but Islam, they feel respected when Islam is respected and insulted when Islam is insulted. Shame is a painful experience. To avoid shame you have to hide the source of shame. This means you must protect the image. Your entire self esteem and self worth depends on that image. When you are shamed you become violence. Violence is one way we humans deal with shame. muslims, is most likely not a violent person. But given the chance to be fundamentalist they will do what they says they would. People of all faiths are offended when their religion is insulted, but only fundies Muslims are capable of completely losing their heads and becoming vicious murderers. Why? It is because fundies Muslims have lost their selfhood and Islam has become their only identity. Islam gives them self worth, a false sense of pride and selfhood. Once Islam is criticized, they feel their vulnerability and are shamed. What can you say when people call your prophet a pedophile and you can't deny it. This caused intense shame and the only way to deal with this shame is to become violent. The best way to describe their behavior is to say that they are possessed. Narcissism is fed through narcissistic supplies. Recognition and respect are narcissistic supplies. Feeding narcissism does not help the narcissist, It rather makes them worse. They become bullies, more arrogant and more demanding. Narcissists cannot be helped through appeasement. In the words of Churchill, An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile hoping it will eat him last. fundies muslims can become violence if their religion is criticized. Savagery should not be tolerated. Those Muslims who choose to defend their religion with savagery should be locked up or kicked out. Dialogue should be welcomed, but there should be zero tolerance for violence. If your ethos is shame based, all you care is to preserve your image. The opposite of shame is honor. You can do wrong but as long as no one sees it, your image is not tarnished and you can still be seen as an honorable person. In a shame based culture, wrong and right have no meaning. It is all about shame and honor. If the stain of shame is removed, even if it means the murder of your own daughter, honor is restored. These are two very different worldviews. Unless we understand them we will not be able to make sense of Muslims and their minds. fundamentalism islam is a fear based philosophy that has taken root in a shame based milieu. This is a very dangerous combination. When you combine fear and shame moral codes, you give birth to the most insidious ethos imaginable. That is fundamentalism Islam. fundamentalism Islam is an illogical doctrine that is based on fear and is defended through honor. This makes fundies Islam more dangerous than Nazism. Muslims are not concerned about the irrationality of their belief or about good or evil. They are mostly concerned about losing face and upholding the image of Islam. One fact we must all agree on is that brute force is stronger than civility. If you and I confront each other and I use violence against you while you try to reason with me, I will win and you will lose. Ordinary people are not militant. They subscribe to the philosophy of live and let live. This is a commendable trait in a civilized world. However, where the law of juggle applies, the most ferocious and the most cunning beast is always the winner. A pack
Re: [ppiindia] Pelajatan ilmu sosial ekonomi bagi Salma Fe (abt india)
India moving towards Biotechnolgy. According to one research India will emerge as a super power in IT Medical research by 2025. 1. Vinod Khosla is a Co-founder of Sun Microsystems (The company which is sweeping the internet with its brainchild Java) 2. Vinod Dahm is Creator of pentium Chip (Needs no introduction, 90% of the today's computers run on it) 3. Lakshmi Mittal is the richest man in UK also listed among Forbes Billionaires. 4. Arun Netravalli is the current president of ATT Bell Labs (AT T Bell Labs is the creator of C, C++, Unix to name a few) 5. Sabeer Bhatia is the founder and creator of Hotmail (Hotmail is world's No. 1 web based email program) 6. Rajiv Gupta is the GM of Hewlett Packard 7. sanjay Tejwrika is the Testing Director of Windows 2000 AppNet America Online (The Largest ISP in the World) WebMethods Lucent Technologies (Pioneer in Fiber Optics) Proxicom Network Solutions (The sole web domain assigner) General Dynamics Corporation Lazard Freres Litton PRC Columbia Capital Primus Communications Discovery Communications Bell Atlantic Cable Wireless The Motley Fool Hughes Network Systems Cybercash MCI Worldcom PSINet Motorola MicroStrategy Equalfooting.com Teligent, Inc. MindBank U.S. Airways CIENA Corp. BioNetrix Net 2000 Communications Computer Associates SAIC Startec INOVA Health System Cvent.com Eglobe Metrocall, Inc. DynCorp Consumer Elec. Ass'n The Carlyle Group Cyveillance Nextel Communications Fannie Mae Intelsat Draper Atlantic Venture Fund, L.P. Freddie Mac Manugistics Raytheon Systems Corporation Spacevest Yes, all Indian (hindus) head them. There are 3.22 Million Indians in America. 38% of Doctors in America are Indians. 12% of Scientists in America are Indians. 36% of NASA employees are Indians. 34% of MICROSOFT employees are Indians 28% of IBM employees are Indians 17% of INTEL employees are Indians 13% of XEROX employees are Indians - Original Message From: sFe [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 11:26:29 AM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Pelajatan ilmu sosial ekonomi bagi Salma Fe mbah dono kan cuma membaca duank, kemajuan india cuma seuplik, dan belum dapat memakmurkan warga negaranya yang masih berserak2 disemua negara karena negaranya masih belum mampu mencukupi mulut2 yang lapar, salma juga monitorlah mbah, jadi jangan mbah berusaha membodoh2i salma. di india juga sering terjadi pertumpahan darah antar sesama, banyak juga kaum muslimin yang dibantai oleh yang bukan penganut muslim, emang berita tersebut tidak sampai ya kehadapan salma? mandeg di mba dono duank? yang ingin salma minta mbah presentasikan adalah, relevansi ajaran kristen/hindu/ budha dengan kemakmuran rakyatnya, tolong deh mbah dono uraikan, karena, di dalam ajaran Islam yang Indah banyak pelajaran tentang hal tersebut, dan kalaupun ada yang belum makmur itu tidak terlepas dari pengaruh2 pihak lainnya yang tidak suka dengan kemakmuran Islam. (karena terpaksa menggunakan sistem ekonomi yang tidak Islami, berorientasi pada sistem ekonomi kapitalis, sosialis dan lain sebagainya) hal inilah yang dilakukan oleh pemerintah indonesia yang menuhankan selain daripada Allah (para munafikun tersesebut). coba pemimpin2 Muslim di tanah air menyadari hal yang akan salma tulis dibawah ini, pastilah pakar2 ekonomi dari negara2 non muslim yang mbah dono pertuhankan tersebut akan keok teori2nya. coba mbah dono simak, dan setelahnya mbah dono yang perlu belajar banyak tentang perekonomian yg Islami dan seuai untuk segala kepentingan, kecuali kepentingan untuk merakuskan diri dan bertamak-ria, ok? perekonomian dan harta kekayaan (bandingan dengan pelajaran ekonomi dlm kitab2 mbah dono atau kitab2 lainnya diluar Islam, jangan2 kitab mbah dono tidak komplet membahas masalah ekonomi ini) Tiap-tiap masyarakat mempunyai sistem ekonominya sendiri, yang tergambar di dalamnya falsafah, aqidah, sistem nilai dan pandangannya terhadap individu dan masyarakat, terhadap harta dan fungsinya, persepsinya tentang agama dan dunia, kekayaan dan kemiskinan. Sehingga semua itu mempengaruhi produktivitas, kekayaan dan berkaitan dengan cara untuk memperoleh, pendistribusian dan penyimpanannya. Dari sinilah muncul sistem perekonomian. Tema tentang ekonom Islam adalah pembicaraan yang panjang. Telah disusun berbagai teori tentang perekonomian Islam dalam bentuk buku yang banyak dan beraneka ragam. Telah pula diajukan berpuluh-puluh risalah (disertasi) ilmiah untuk memperoleh gelar Magister dan Dokror dalam bidang ini. Maka cukup bagi kita di sini untuk mengambil suatu pemikiran tentang kaidah-kaidah utama yang tegak di atasnya pembentukan sistem perekonomian dalam masyarakat Islam. Di antara yang terpenting adalah sebagai berikut: Harta dinilai sebagai suatu kebaikan dan kenikmatan jika berada ditangan orang-orang shalih. Harta adalah milik Allah, sedangkan manusia hanyalah dipinjami dengan
Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
dear pak Hakim, both of us agree that fact must be fair. since early 60's until now, muslims from arab countries went to US n Europe, they even went to western embassy for help bcs they want to flew from their arab countries. the number of immigrant moslems have been increasing year after year, my logical question is if they knew the western will treat them bad, why they still come..? it's not logic, isn't it? i mean why they left their precious arab countries and went to US n Europe? bcs the freedom and liberty in western country. in this modern society can u give me an example of the fair treatment for non muslim in arab countries compared to the treatment for muslim in western countries ? do the minority of non-muslim have the same freedom in arab countries as muslim gain more freedom in western countries? as in my previous post, i already shown the fact abt how the western treat muslim in their country. muslim not only had given freedom but demand preference. from all place on earth..where sunnis n shi'a killed each other, burn each other's mosques, only in western countries they can live peacefully..not in arabs countries, do u you know why? bcs the freedom and liberty. bcs civil law is the supreme law in western society not religious law. fact prove that even religious law cant settle the war between sunni and shi'a, rite? so pak Hakim, can u show me an evidence of proof abt the fair treatment of non-muslim in arab countries.., i mean a fair treatment, not a second class citizen. , show the fair treatment of non muslim in arab countries and compared it to how the muslims have been treatment in western countries. show me the proof? im waiting. - Original Message From: hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:46:31 AM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) Fact must be fair Jumlah gereja di Jawa jauh lebih banyak daripada jumlah masjid/musholla di daerah Manado, NTT, Ambon dan sekitarnya. Adalah tidak fair kalau hanya menyoroti kesulitan pendirian gereja di Jawa sedangkan kesulitan pendirian masjid/musholla di daerah-daerah tsb tidak pernah digubris. Pendirian masjid di negara-negara maju juga tidaklah semudah pendirian gereja di Indonesia. Butuh pengorbanan banyak hal dan butuh waktu bertahun-tahun untuk mewujudkan pendirian masjid-masjid tsb. Kalaupun fakta yang disampaikan Ibu Carla memang benar, hal tersebut tidaklah dapat menutupi fakta baik fakta sejarah maupun saat ini adanya perlakukan non muslim kepada orang muslim baik berupa pembantaian muslimin di Spanyol, Bosnia, Maluku, Chechnya, Afghanistan, Irak, dsb. Belum lagi perlakuan diskriminasi yang dialami banyak tenaga kerja (PRT, Sopir, dsb) yang bekerja di keluarga non muslim. Harap maklum Salam be fair Hakim - Original Message - From: carla annamarie kneefel carla_annamarie17@ yahoo.com To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) fact must be fair... in US there're more mosques than churches in arab countries. we roll out the red carpet for the immigrant Muslims, treat them as we would with our own citizens, give them stipends, medical care, and free education. in EU countries, they re many moslem immigrant who lives freely, building they mosques, they lives by our tax, we gave them our country to live, we gave them medical n education n financial support, there're many students from arabs countries who grant scholarship from our countries (EU and US). Western governments have allowed Muslim communities to settle in their countries, offered financial aid in building their mosques, and allowed them to bring Imams from Muslim lands. why were some propagandists of political Islam allowed to settle in Western countries? Millions of Muslims come to the 'Infidel West' and live in it, in peace and tranquility. In fact the proportional number of mosques in the West is greater than in Islamic lands. For example there are more than one thousand mosques in Britain, while the number of Muslims living there is around two million! At the same time, Copts in Egypt are not allowed to build new churches unless they get permission from the President; and obtaining the needed permit for that is almost impossible. Furthermore, when a Christian comes to Saudi Arabia, he is not allowed to bring his Bible with him; if he has one, it is confiscated at the airport! Muslims enjoy complete freedom of worship in the West; in fact they have more freedom in Western lands than in Islamic countries. Actually, religious freedom for Muslims is granted only and uniquely to the type of Islam that is sanctioned by the state. Thus, Shi'ites living in Wahhabi Saudi Arabia don't enjoy the freedom to express their own type of Islam. As for Iran
Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
dear Pak Hakim, u dont i answer my previous question.., do u or can u not find any single proof of fair treatment for non-muslim in arab countries? yes or no? if yes..show me the proof... im still waiting for ur answer referred to the fair treatment from western countries which i have posted earlier. let me make it simple for u..., those moslems that came to western countries re immigrant but still they treated fairly. but those non-muslim in arab countries re native arabs. (christian arabs or copts in eqypt). so when i ask u abt the proof regarding fair treatment for non muslim in arabs countries, it should me easier for u to answer and give me the proof, rite? im still waiting for ur proof. - Original Message From: hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:58:35 AM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) Dear Ibu Carla Why they still come..? Tentunya banyak alasan dan sebab mengapa mereka masih terus berdatangan ke negara-negara maju. Salah satunya bisa jadi ada gula ada semut. Adanya gula bisa membuat orang berspekulasi menantang bahaya di negara tujuan. Jangankan negara damai yang aturan dan hukumnya jelas, lha di negara yang kacau balau saja banyak orang berdatangan untuk mengadu nasib. Bisa juga karena, imigran tersebut merupakan pelarian politik yang tidak sreg dengan penguasa mereka. Ibu Carla jangan salah, dari contoh saya di bawah jelas terlihat bahwa tidak semua tempat/negara memperlakukan umat muslim dengan buruk. Hal ini klop dengan contoh yang Ibu utarakan. Ibu mau contoh jelas? I'll give you the proof. Pls, look at mbah Danar. He is not a second class. He is an international banker. Dari postingan mbah Danar, berkali-kali beliau sampaikan kalau sering berbisnis dengan orang Arab di negara-negara Timur Tengah. Coba tanyakan pengalaman mbah Danar dengan timnya di Middle East. Apakah mbah Danar diperlakukan dengan baik? atau sebaliknya? Pripun mbah Danar? sae to mbah? Salam sae Hakim - Original Message - From: carla annamarie kneefel To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:50 AM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) dear pak Hakim, both of us agree that fact must be fair. since early 60's until now, muslims from arab countries went to US n Europe, they even went to western embassy for help bcs they want to flew from their arab countries. the number of immigrant moslems have been increasing year after year, my logical question is if they knew the western will treat them bad, why they still come..? it's not logic, isn't it? i mean why they left their precious arab countries and went to US n Europe? bcs the freedom and liberty in western country. in this modern society can u give me an example of the fair treatment for non muslim in arab countries compared to the treatment for muslim in western countries ? do the minority of non-muslim have the same freedom in arab countries as muslim gain more freedom in western countries? as in my previous post, i already shown the fact abt how the western treat muslim in their country. muslim not only had given freedom but demand preference. from all place on earth..where sunnis n shi'a killed each other, burn each other's mosques, only in western countries they can live peacefully.. not in arabs countries, do u you know why? bcs the freedom and liberty. bcs civil law is the supreme law in western society not religious law. fact prove that even religious law cant settle the war between sunni and shi'a, rite? so pak Hakim, can u show me an evidence of proof abt the fair treatment of non-muslim in arab countries.., i mean a fair treatment, not a second class citizen. , show the fair treatment of non muslim in arab countries and compared it to how the muslims have been treatment in western countries. show me the proof? im waiting. - Original Message From: hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 7:46:31 AM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) Fact must be fair Jumlah gereja di Jawa jauh lebih banyak daripada jumlah masjid/musholla di daerah Manado, NTT, Ambon dan sekitarnya. Adalah tidak fair kalau hanya menyoroti kesulitan pendirian gereja di Jawa sedangkan kesulitan pendirian masjid/musholla di daerah-daerah tsb tidak pernah digubris. Pendirian masjid di negara-negara maju juga tidaklah semudah pendirian gereja di Indonesia. Butuh pengorbanan banyak hal dan butuh waktu bertahun-tahun untuk mewujudkan pendirian masjid-masjid tsb. Kalaupun fakta yang disampaikan Ibu Carla memang benar, hal tersebut tidaklah dapat menutupi fakta baik fakta sejarah maupun saat ini adanya perlakukan non muslim kepada orang muslim baik berupa pembantaian muslimin di
Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
Dear Pak Hakim, fairness must be objective. and fair must be equal. equal means u should show me an equal proof. the expat u mention below re working to foreign companies (western companies) that recide in those cities. the arabs government need them for running their business, those relationship between expats n arabs government based on business interest. it's called mutual relationship business. expats u mentioned below re not permanent resident of arabs countries (contrary to muslims that lived in western countries), they usually recided there for temporary amount of time, they re not want to become citizen (contrary to muslims they even apply for citizenship in western countries), they only temporary recided there for business only, bcs the arabs needs them running their oil business. u re still not answering my question, do u or can u find any single fair treatment for non muslim in arabs countries ( as i said earlier..i wanna make it easier for u.., show me the fair treatment for christian arabs n copts in arabs countries). from my earliest post i already shown u the proof of fair treatment for muslims in western countries, now it's ur time to provide me with equal fairness of proof for non muslims ( christian arabs n copts) in arabs countries. im still patiently waiting for ur proof. as i repeat my question once again in case u didnt comprehend nor understand my question. do u or can u find any single fair treatment for non muslim in arabs countries ( as i said earlier..i wanna make it easier for u.., show me the fair treatment for christian arabs n copts in arabs countries) as u compared it to the fair treatment muslims received in western countries. - Original Message From: hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:44:23 AM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) Dear Ibu Carla Contoh lain. Coba Ibu Carla lihat di Kota Jeddah, Dubai, and Kuwait City Di kota ini dengan mudah dijumpai orang-orang Bule yang sudah bermukim di sana bertahun-tahun tanpa gangguan. Memang mereka bukan imigran tetapi ekspatriat. Namun demikian tidaklah berarti tidak bisa manjadi contoh bahwa ada fair treatment dari kaum muslimin kepada non muslimin. Di negara-negara maju keberadaan kaum migran juga tidak semuanya smooth seperti yang Ibu Carla contohkan. Ada saja yang dicari-cari untuk kesalahan mereka. Memang tidak semua imigran bisa klop dengan budaya, aturan dan hukum di negara maju tsb. Poinnya adalah pls be fair. Salam Hakim - Original Message - From: carla annamarie kneefel To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) dear Pak Hakim, u dont i answer my previous question.., do u or can u not find any single proof of fair treatment for non-muslim in arab countries? yes or no? if yes..show me the proof... im still waiting for ur answer referred to the fair treatment from western countries which i have posted earlier. let me make it simple for u..., those moslems that came to western countries re immigrant but still they treated fairly. but those non-muslim in arab countries re native arabs. (christian arabs or copts in eqypt). so when i ask u abt the proof regarding fair treatment for non muslim in arabs countries, it should me easier for u to answer and give me the proof, rite? im still waiting for ur proof. - Original Message From: hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] co.id To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 9:58:35 AM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) Dear Ibu Carla Why they still come..? Tentunya banyak alasan dan sebab mengapa mereka masih terus berdatangan ke negara-negara maju. Salah satunya bisa jadi ada gula ada semut. Adanya gula bisa membuat orang berspekulasi menantang bahaya di negara tujuan. Jangankan negara damai yang aturan dan hukumnya jelas, lha di negara yang kacau balau saja banyak orang berdatangan untuk mengadu nasib. Bisa juga karena, imigran tersebut merupakan pelarian politik yang tidak sreg dengan penguasa mereka. Ibu Carla jangan salah, dari contoh saya di bawah jelas terlihat bahwa tidak semua tempat/negara memperlakukan umat muslim dengan buruk. Hal ini klop dengan contoh yang Ibu utarakan. Ibu mau contoh jelas? I'll give you the proof. Pls, look at mbah Danar. He is not a second class. He is an international banker. Dari postingan mbah Danar, berkali-kali beliau sampaikan kalau sering berbisnis dengan orang Arab di negara-negara Timur Tengah. Coba tanyakan pengalaman mbah Danar dengan timnya di Middle East. Apakah mbah Danar diperlakukan dengan baik? atau sebaliknya? Pripun mbah Danar? sae to mbah? Salam sae Hakim - Original Message - From: carla
Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih)
dear Eyang Danar, i think if indonesian muslims want to know abt the life in arabs countries, i think they should ask n listen emphatically to those TKW indo (all of them re moslem) abt fair treatment, moreover humane treatment. there're too many TKW killed brutaly, raped, beaten until paralyse. they re moslem too rite?. re those TKW just only statistic without a soul, family, and dignity? did u see any justice served on behalf of those victims? did u see or heard any fundies condems arabs for those horrible acts and killings? did u see any fundies demos in front of arabs embassy and demands justice? but still many of these fundies worship arabs as if its their idol. dear Eyang, did u see any logic in this? or even a tiny bit of humanity left for this? - Original Message From: RM Danardono HADINOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 11:34:45 AM Subject: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskriminasi (saya juga sangat sedih) You're absolutely right mas Hakim. Di tataran atas masyarakat Saudi, adalag sangat CIVILIZED. mereka rata rata lulusan US atau UK. Kami selalu di treat excellently, dan seringkali yang memimpin negotiations adalah masih prince. Ini sama dengan di Emirat Emirat Arab, sangat menyenangkan. Merekapun kami perlakukan istimewa kalau datang ke Head Office kami. Yang mbak Carla singgung, pasti juga bagian dari kenyataan se-hari hari yang pahit. yang menyangkut tataran menengah kebawah. Kita jangan lupa, Saudi adalah kerajaan yang berkonstitusi absolut, jadi semua tergantung ditangan raja. Jadi hukum yang diberlakukan keluarga raja yang berlaku. Pemberlakuan hukum, terutama dalam masalah keimigrasian adalah amat sangat ketat. Dan ini seringkali berdampak kurang manusiawi bagi para pekerja migran. Seorang sahabat wanita dari istri saya, orang Manado mempunyai suami yang bertugas sebagai pliot untu Air Saudi (ex pilot Garuda). Mereka tinggal sangat menyenangkan di sebuah komplex (dinamakan compound) untu Non Saudi. Mewah sekali, dan disana hukum Saudi tak diberlakukan ketat. Wanita boleh mengemudi mobil, memakai baju bebas, dsb. TETAPI diluar compound, wanita dilarang keluar sendiri apalagi mengemudi kendaraan. Seringkali wanita wanita tingkat atas yang supermewah Saudi datang bertamu, kepada penghuni compound (isinya hampir semua keluarga US, Europe, jepang Korea, dll). Wanita wanita, yang rata rata cantik ini, datang dengan busana Mulsim yang sangat traditional, demikian mereka masuk appartment di compund mereka buka, dan muncul busana Eropa atau US yang paling mutakhir, paling mahal dan paling sexy. tak ada lengan panjang, rata rata tanpa lengan atau malah top, seperti lazim di Beverly Hills atau Hollywood. rambut mereka yang hitam lebat terurai bebas menutupi pundak, mereka berenang dengan baju renang yang paling mutahkir dan mode terakhir. bahan bahannya, jangan tanya, Dior, Chanel, Hermes... mereka merokok rokok yang paling mahal, dan minum alkohol kelas teratas.. Mudah mudahan mbak Salma dapat kesempatan menengok kehidupan wanita Saudi kelas atas, dan para anggauta keluarga raja... dia akan melek, bahwa yang katanya dibagikan bagi rakyat tak ada seper seper seper trilyun dari yang dinikmati golongan atas.. Salam danardono --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Ibu Carla Why they still come..? Tentunya banyak alasan dan sebab mengapa mereka masih terus berdatangan ke negara-negara maju. Salah satunya bisa jadi ada gula ada semut. Adanya gula bisa membuat orang berspekulasi menantang bahaya di negara tujuan. Jangankan negara damai yang aturan dan hukumnya jelas, lha di negara yang kacau balau saja banyak orang berdatangan untuk mengadu nasib. Bisa juga karena, imigran tersebut merupakan pelarian politik yang tidak sreg dengan penguasa mereka. Ibu Carla jangan salah, dari contoh saya di bawah jelas terlihat bahwa tidak semua tempat/negara memperlakukan umat muslim dengan buruk. Hal ini klop dengan contoh yang Ibu utarakan. Ibu mau contoh jelas? I'll give you the proof. Pls, look at mbah Danar. He is not a second class. He is an international banker. Dari postingan mbah Danar, berkali-kali beliau sampaikan kalau sering berbisnis dengan orang Arab di negara-negara Timur Tengah. Coba tanyakan pengalaman mbah Danar dengan timnya di Middle East. Apakah mbah Danar diperlakukan dengan baik? atau sebaliknya? Pripun mbah Danar? sae to mbah? Salam sae Hakim Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan
when ppl re not agree with ur own opinion , rather than debate and refute their argument by facts, logic n reason. some ppl choose to use ad hominem argument and ad hominem abusive in discussion. agree to disagree is a common thing in liberal and secular society, but in fundamentalistic concept of thinking, there's no such thing. the only thing that exist in fundamentalistic concept of mind is an absolute and superior concept. there's no such thing as logical, reasoning and moreover a dialogue. so when questions n critics occurs in discussion , rather than provide with a logical explaination they will feel personally insulted and feel ridiculed. bcs their roots is shame based. and when they feel ashamed they will get violence. sometimes with words , and sometimes with real actions. when they feels insulted they will get violence in this case with words. logic, reason and rational knowledge dont exist in the fundamentalistic belief system. the more u challenge them with logic and rational knowledge the more they feel insulted n inferior. and thats when the violence begins. The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge. Albert Einstein (1879-1955) - Original Message From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:17:44 PM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan kompak eiiy..! orang kafir mau bilang apa ajah, sa' karep mu lah tanya aja ah sama pak nugroho pak ihsan, pak dono ini kafir bukan? tolong pencerahannya neh dr orang2 yg tinggi ilmu agamanya RM Danardono HADINOTO rm_danardono@ yahoo.de Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com 11/29/2007 11:54 AM Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com To [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com cc Subject [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan Ya, mas, kasihan mereka ini, model model haris atau Nizami itu dan mbak salma, yang oleh mayoritas kaum Muslim sendiri, yang sangat toleran dan terbuka, ditolak, malah dicibirkan. Padahal 3 oarng ini berserta kawan kawan sejurusan yang fundamentalist dan pr kekerasan, merasa Muslim termurni.. Ciloko Salam Danardono --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com, Jimmy Okberto jimmy.okberto@ ... wrote: Jimmy Okberto Pantesan ... Gayanya berkacak berilmu tinggi Padahal Cuma kulitnya saja ... _ _ __ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com] On Behalf Of mediacare Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:36 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan Umumnya mereka menjadi korban dari pengajian keliling bernama pengajian kantor. Ini lahan untuk menyemai kaum fundamentalis biar makin subur Dalam waktu singkat seolah mereka sudah memahami Islam secara mendalam, padahal cuma permukaannya saja, itu pun bentuknya indoktrinasi dari yang keras-keras saja. - Original Message - From: Asnawi Ihsan To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com mailto:ppiindia% 40yahoogroups. com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 8:51 AM Subject: RE: [ppiindia] Re: Fwd: Undangan Diskusi JIL tentang Kebebasan dan Ketidakbebasan Bung Dadardono dan bung Nugroho.. Saya setuju sekali kelompok fundamentalis ini kaum a-historis. Saya yakin, jika mereka memahami islam dengan benar sikap mereka tidak seperti ini. Wajah Islam yang mereka tampilkan ini adalah wajah islam yang keras dan menakutkan. Sebagai seorang muslim, saya sangat risih dengan sikap dan prilaku mereka yang kadang membabi buta dan tidak kenal etika. Saya teringat saat guru saya, Almarhum Cak Nur sedang sakit keras, didatangi sekelompok orang fundamental yang dipimpin seorang tokoh mereka dan menurut pengakuannya juga atas perintah dari Amir (pimpinan) mereka. Menghadapi orang yang sedang sakit keras pun mereka tetap saja tidak manusiawi, mengajak berdiskusi dan meminta cak Nur bertaubat dan mengakui segala kesesatan pemikirannya. Luar biasa!!! Siapa mereka ini!!! Selain orang-orang yang sudah tergoda oleh iblis merasa paling benar dan paling berhak atas surga serta orang- orang yang ke-GR-an karena merasa secara resmi dimandatkan oleh Tuhan untuk menghakimi orang-orang yang berpandangan berbeda dengan mereka... Belum lama juga terjadi kasus yang sangat tragis. Menteri agama melakukan pencekalan terhadap Seorang pemikir muslim, Nasr Hamid Abu Zaid hanya karena ancaman dari tokoh islam fundamental melalui SMS. Tokoh Fundamental itu yang mengingatkan menag bahwa Nasr tidak pantas bicara di forum konferensi Islam malang karena dia menghujat al-Quran. Depag berdosa kalau benar- benar menghadirkan Nasr, dan Depag akan
Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskrim
dear fyi, im flattered for ur effort to google me. if u want to know abt prudential management's policy regarding the syariah product, i suggest u should ask prudential management then. im sure they will gladly to help. actually since creating of such product i was no longer there. anyway, in my personal opinion.. regarding syariah banking or insurance, when bank or insurance company creating a product based only on business interest and how to gain profit. there's no discrimination on business, wealthy saudis invest their money on western countries, put their money on jewish banks, christian can make business with moslems, hindhu's can have business trade with chinese budhist. there're no preferences. bcs economy is global. and business is business. the fundamentalistic system is abt separation n exclusivism. so if have a bank or company, why should i make a preferences.., if im an atheist and a banker do i have to preference when dealing or invest or giving credit only to atheist ppl? if i own a US insurance company, and there's an idea to reach muslims community so why not? bcs im a business person, u can ask saudis why they invest their money to western countries n they trust jewish banker than their own arabs brothers. u have to differ business and religion. those things in world trade cant mixed. in the world of business, the fundamentalistic belief dont works. if u re not agree to that kinda product, u re free to do that. so dont buy it. - Original Message From: Sang Matahari [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 12:17:41 PM Subject: Re: Bls: [ppiindia] Re: Kelompok minoritas muslim mengalami diskrim Carla atas usahamu yang keras untuk mendapatkan keadilan jika syariah diterapkan, aku iseng lihat google siapa dirimu? kerja di prudensial.. di asuransi? Carla, pernahkah dirimu mengalami diskriminasi ditempatmu bekerja? atau teman-teman muslim lain di Indonesia atau yang tampak agama Islam taat ? Oh ya Carla, aku lihat iklan televisi tentang produk prudential.. . sekarang lagi ngembangin prudensial syariah? he he he he... itu perusahaanmu bukan...Apa tanggapanmu Carlatentang prudential syariah.. kenapa perusahaanmu punya ide begitu.. nggak takut dilabeli memberi ruang atau sosialisasi untuk orang yang dikatakan fundamentalis? Atau untuk mendapatkan keuntungan dari sosialisasi kata syariah... . ^_^ think twice Carla. jika label syariah aja menguntungkan apalagi subtansinya. . ^_^ - - - - - - dear pak Hakim, both of us agree that fact must be fair. since early 60's until now, muslims from arab countries went to US n Europe, they even went to western embassy for help bcs they want to flew from their arab countries. the number of immigrant moslems have been increasing year after year, my logical question is if they knew the western will treat them bad, why they still come..? it's not logic, isn't it? i mean why they left their precious arab countries and went to US n Europe? bcs the freedom and liberty in western country. in this modern society can u give me an example of the fair treatment for non muslim in arab countries compared to the treatment for muslim in western countries ? do the minority of non-muslim have the same freedom in arab countries as muslim gain more freedom in western countries? as in my previous post, i already shown the fact abt how the western treat muslim in their country. muslim not only had given freedom but demand preference. from all place on earth..where sunnis n shi'a killed each other, burn each other's mosques, only in western countries they can live peacefully.. not in arabs countries, do u you know why? bcs the freedom and liberty. bcs civil law is the supreme law in western society not religious law. fact prove that even religious law cant settle the war between sunni and shi'a, rite? so pak Hakim, can u show me an evidence of proof abt the fair treatment of non-muslim in arab countries.., i mean a fair treatment, not a second class citizen. , show the fair treatment of non muslim in arab countries and compared it to how the muslims have been treatment in western countries. show me the proof? im waiting. - - --- Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Malaysia-Iran-Turki mau bikin mobil Islami
dear Eyang Danar, i just wonder why ford, VW, ferrari, BMW, Benz or toyota, hyundai, honda etc...never thought the kinda idea like that...u know a religious car...:) RM Danardono HADINOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, Satrio Arismunandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dari milis NZ_Muslims_Islamic_ [EMAIL PROTECTED] s.com Malaysia to make 'Islamic cars' November 11, 2007 Lalu Toyota, Mazda, Honda, Suzuki, Hyundai, Daewoo, Hino, semua Budhist cars. Mercedes, BMW, Lambhorgini, Maseratti, christian cars... Bajajj...Hindu's cars Beca Indonesian cars Bendi, delman, gerobak sapi? - Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
dear pak Nugroho, realism..sir, not pessimism. i have high hopes for humanity. man re never created to be evil. but when man stop to heard their voice of reason n stop to feel compassion. the evil begins. anyway, as long as man chose to use their voice of reason n compassion. i think our civilization will survive. as for ur comment on US, likewise i never loose my confidence on american ppl. america's great history of humanity and liberty has been in hundred of years. american ppl survive many wars from WW2, korean war, the tragic lost of vietnam war and the most tragic was civil war. the war within american ppl. the war where brothers killing brothers for the sake of humanity. yet humanity won. american ppl won. so i never loose faith on american. their country is the last fortress and beacon of liberty in this world. GWB after 9/11 have all support and anonymous vote from both party, even all american supported him. but as years passed his popularity has dropped to lowest level. many american ppl dont support him anymore. u know why it's happenned? bcs it's america. we cant force american ppl to think the way we want, bcs they will argue with u, they will ask many questions. they will critize ur policy. they will investigate. in US no one is above the law. thats democracy. i think we have to learn from american. bcs they re dare to know n dare to ask. it's the voice of reason. peace Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: maaf carla, saya tak berbagi pesimisme dengan anda dalam memandang manusia. manusia tidak bergelimang dan lekat dengan dosa (kebodohan), justeru dia berpotensi menjadi mahluk Tuhan yang terbaik di atas muka bumi. saya tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) amerika. sekarang sudah ada tanda-tanda rezim bush akan bangkrut. mereka sudah kalah di kongres dan kandidatnya dalam pemilihan presiden terkena isu suap dari mafia. rezim neo-konservatif pro-industri pencemar lingkungan yang tak mau meneken protokol kyoto itu akan segera berakhir. bahkan sebagian tokoh republik, mis gubernur kalifornia arnold schwartzeneger, sekarang terang-terangan mendukung agenda demokrasi, kemanusiaan dan kelestarian lingkungan yang biasa diusung kaum demokrat. saya juga tak pesimistis dengan (rakyat) indonesia. semakin banyak cendekiawan muda yang berpandangan maju. bila bisa bebas dari korupsi, indonesia akan jadi bangsa maju dan demokrat terbesar dari kalangan dunia islam. saran saya, jangan terlalu melihat kelompok militan yang sebetulnya kecil tapi suaranya keras. jangan sampai melihat bayangan harimau, padahal di balik lampu cuma ada seekor kucing. At 10:54 PM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: dear pak Nugroho, actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im not generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i met many good ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact two of my closest friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great respect for ppl like Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a freedom-fighter. but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are fundies or a potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, in fact they even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim re loosing ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're more moderate Islam in indonesia, but where re they? why they never speak up? only the same person over and over again speak up. and they re only few. (actually if u want to added indonesian celebrities to this count..that fine with me). the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice of reason and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're very few of them. bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 ) said: Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason must yield to revelation. (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence of Philosophers). i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question regarding this matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i adapt our view to reality? As Bertrand Russell once said, The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Elsewhere he said, Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric. Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, In science ideas do not change simply because new facts win out over outmoded ones Since the facts cant speak for themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose the day (Shirley C. Strum, Almost Human, 1987Strums references are to Thomas Kuhns The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970). John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, the dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
An Exegesis of Wahhabism by : Syed Kamran Mirza What is Wahabism (?): many conniving Islamists want to blame Wahabism for the inherent intolerance of real Islam. That is, they want to portray Wahabism as the separate or deviant entity of Islam which is being misunderstood (by westerners) as the real Islam. Most western non-Muslims are also being misguided by the so called Wahabite type of Islam, which according to some is not real/true peaceful Islam. Now what is actually Wahabism? Fact of the matter is, the so-called Wahabism is not a separate religion, nor is it a ~ separate brand of Islam. Truly, this Wahabism is the new force to unite Islam into its pristine form that existed in the early Islamic period of 7th century. That is the time of Prophet Muhammad and his four favorite disciplesKhula-faye-Rashedin. In the early 18th century Mohammad Ibn Abdul Wahab a famous Saudi religious extremist leader called for a renewal of Islamic spirit, moral cleansing and the stripping away of all innovations to Islam since the 7th century. His followers are called Wahabis or wahbite Islamists, and these followers of Abdul Wahab preach pure and real original Islam which got the name (erroneously) as Wahabism. Therefore, Wahabism is not a new brand of Islam or any offshoot of Islam; rather Wahabism is the re-orientation of the original pure Islam. That is Wahabism is the old pure wine in a new bottle. Wahabism does not have any separate scriptural book, Quran and Sunnah (hadiths) are the principle guidance for Wahabism. Actually, Wahabism is nothing but the real Islam of 7th century in a sheer rejuvenation by the grace of Arabs petrodollars. Most importantly, Wahabism (pure islam) is dangerously intolerant towards other religions and infidels as it was during early period of Islam (Starting from Prophet Muhammad up to the end period of four rightly guided caliphs). Followers of Wahabism prefer to identify themselves as Muwahiddunwhich means the unifiers. Wahabism is simply the political Islam that has been adopted for power sharing purposes. It has no special practices, nor special rites, and no special interpretation of the religion Islam that differs from the main body of Sunni Islam. Wahabite followers consider every Muslims should follow the practice of Islam like Wahabite Muslims and regard all those who do not follow them as the heathens and enemies of Islam. Osama bin Laden is the true follower of Wahabism. The followers of Wahabism including the Saudi Arabias ruling house of Saud insist they are simply practicing the true Islam of Prophet Muhammad. Saudi ruler (King of Saudi Arabia) did not change anything in the theological aspect of original Islam. But they have changed their own political designation as the rulers of Saudi Arabia. They are not calling them king (as Islam does not advocate Kingship); rather Saudi rulers call them The custodian of Islam. Wahabism got popularity to the west and the Muslim world during the aftermath of Iranian Revolution in 1979. Billions of Dollars were spent by Saudi to influence Wahabism ideology as the counter force to Iranian Shiite ideology throughout the whole Muslim world by building thousands of Mosques, Madrassahs, Islamic centers etc. Pakistan was flooded with Wahabi madrassas (Islamic school or factory of terrorism) which was the main focus to the American media after the 9/11 episode as the breeding ground of Taliban and al-Qaeda Jhadi force. Sheik Shishu a Kurdish Imam who is the follower of wahabism (when asked by a Kurdish reporter about wahabism) said: What is Wahabism? there is no such thing called Wahabism, only true Islam. Saudi students and Saudi citizen also have the similar opinions about Wahabism. From the book Shattering the Myth: Islam beyond ViolencePrinceton University Press, 2000). Like many other Saudis in America, Mr. Alahmari does not like to refer to the brand of Islam that is exported from his country as Wahhabism. We dont feel Wahhabism is something different, he said. It is a purification of Islam. Effects and reflections of Wahabism on the lives of Muslims: If we recapitulate how Islam as a religion had been practiced during the decades of 60s, 50s and 40s and beyond, we can surely detect tremendous changes the way Muslims practice Islam today. During 60s, 50s and 40s and even before that (for many centuries)Muslims used to practice religion Islam very privately, easily and peacefully. There was no political influence in Islam and especially in the Indian sub-continent as well as entire South East Asia Islam was tremendously influenced by Sufism and other local brand of cultural admixes. We did not see young people and college students so serious about religion. Religious activities (mainly five times prayers and fasting during Romadhan and two Eids) were duty of mainly the elders. Youngsters were not so serious about
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
thats what its called double-standard politic.., not only US but EU countries have their shared in guilt. but as a matter of fact, even saudis corporations have connection with jewish bankers, they put and invest most of their money into western countries. ironically they rarely invested their money for economy development to south asian country esp indonesia (where by fact they re growing number of wahhabist here). saudis's sheikh lives larger than life, they have castles, mansions, all over the world, they have the finest wine collections, have all the luxurius cars ( ferrari, porsche, lamborghini..etc), in my opinion they re living a kaffur kinda life. the life that so contrast with the teaching of wahhabism and also the Quran n hadith. and also US n EU and all the rest of the world, maintain their delusional hypocrisy, and try to ignore the fact that some (not all) saudis wealthy re chief financer of terrorist groups. money, power, politics, oil, and finally religion's ideology. osama bin laden was an outcast son of the wealthy and saudis respectful family, but he denounced all the luxury that money could offered and lives as fugitive and hero in the eyes of wahhabist ppl. one of the essence of wahhabism is to denounced all related to kaffur, it means includes the kaffur's way of life ( no modern fashionable clothes, no branded shoes its means no manolo..:) the kaffur's modern tech ( no cell phone, no computer, no refrigerator, no AC, no cars, no airplane, no radio, no TV, no internet, no bus, no taxi, no ipod, no LCD), women's cant have a higher education, no mcdonald, no kfc, no malls, no breadtalk, no starbucks, no sushi, no credit card, btw no high tech hospitals (so if they got terrible sick just dont go to US, singapore or Europe countries's hospitals.. just go to arabs's hospital for cure, no need for advance medicine bcs all major medicine's institutions for curing all terminal deseases re from n in kaffurs' countries, gosh it's so manyu figure out ur self then..:) my point is osama's life is an example for all wahhabist who realy hates western n all kaffurs.., i mean he really lives abide with his faith. i means he got a credit for that for standing up for what he believe. but for those wahhabist who claimed that the non-muslim (the hindhu, budhist, atheist, christian, jewish, shinto, tao, or many other beliefs) is kaffurs bcs we have the wrong way of life and beliefs. and want to destroy our civilization. want to convert our life ( as an atheist, shinto, judaism, christian, hindhu, budha, and other beliefs) to their religion. bcs they think their religion re the only truth and the others re false and need to be conquered and destroyed? pls dont be double standard n hypocrite. lives like osama's lives.., isn't he their hero?, quit job, go to afgan, or sudan, and lives in the desert. years ago, i thought it's only a political war (bcs of palestine (n arabs) war with israel, but as years passed i began to realize that there's not the most important reason. the main reason is bcs it's their ideology, it's their belief's system. i read articles and comments of some intellectual muslim scholars n their quite respectible but they have the same agree with this ideology. so i got the conclusion then, i think wahhabism is the real islam, it's the pure islam. many of muslim scholar's apologist try to counter this perception abt wahhabism is the real islam. but how can they counter the Quran n hadith. how can they contradict Quran n hadith bcs by facts wahhabism practicing the pure Quran n hadith. the universal values is not in one's religion, but in equality, humanity and freedom. in my personal opinion, the best religion dont exist. it's delusional. the true religion/belief i dont have a clue what it is, even an atheist claimed what they believe is the truth. anyway, u dont have to agree with me though, everyone has their own opinion n beliefs. it's their right. their personal faith re their basic right . who am i to claim that hindhuism re the true religion, or atheist re the best belief system? so why bother? but now humanity has new enemy it's called- ideology of hatred. hitler had tried once to genocide one race n to conquered europe, but he was defeated. and died in shame. so this ism will also ended sooner or later. peace Nugroho Dewanto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jangan lupa dalam setiap aksi teror jihadis di seluruh dunia dibaliknya ada ideologi saudi dan pelatihan serta senjata amerika. begitu mesra amerika memperlakukan sekutu arabnya yang paling loyal itu, kendati mereka tak menerapkan demokrasi dan memperlakukan wanita dengan sangat buruk. why? i believe there is no such thing as a coinsidence. At 12:06 AM 11/14/2007 -0800, you wrote: An Exegesis of Wahhabism by : Syed
Re: [ppiindia] Fwd: Rendah Diri Kaum Wahhabi An Exegesis of Wahhabism. ( A different Perspective)
dear pak Nugroho, actually, i dont want u to misunderstood my previous posting, im not generalize ppl that have islam as their religion as wahhabist. i met many good ppl ( that by birth and family, made them a muslim). in fact two of my closest friend have Islam as their religion. also, i have great respect for ppl like Gus dur, Ulil n ppl in Is-lib, for me they re a freedom-fighter. but thats not my point. majority of muslim in indonesia are fundies or a potential fundies, they claimed that Gus dur is not a true muslim, in fact they even treated Ulil as an apostate. liberal and moderate muslim re loosing ground, they re not popular, some claimed that there're more moderate Islam in indonesia, but where re they? why they never speak up? only the same person over and over again speak up. and they re only few. (actually if u want to added indonesian celebrities to this count..that fine with me). the ppl that called them selves a liberal muslim use their voice of reason and heart's compassion. but again sadly i have to say there're very few of them. bcs majority of muslim follow as what Imam al Ghazzali (1058 ) said: Where the claims of reason come into conflict with revelation, reason must yield to revelation. (Tahafut al-falasafa, the Incoherence of Philosophers). i think we have to be dare to know and dare to ask question regarding this matter. should we interpret reality to fit our view? or should i adapt our view to reality? As Bertrand Russell once said, The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. Elsewhere he said, Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric. Science historian Thomas Kuhn wrote, In science ideas do not change simply because new facts win out over outmoded ones Since the facts cant speak for themselves, it is their human advocates who win or lose the day (Shirley C. Strum, Almost Human, 1987Strums references are to Thomas Kuhns The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, second edn, 1970). John Stuart Mill, in his essay On Liberty, emphasized that, the dictum that truth always triumphs over persecution is one of those pleasant falsehoods which men repeat after one another till they pass into commonplaces, but which all experience refutes. History teems with instances of truth put down by persecution. If not suppressed for ever, it may be thrown back for centuries. It is a lie to think that truth will automatically triumph over lies or that goodness will eventually win over evil on its own. This is a sweet lie that has no bases on reality and it serves to no purpose other than to lull us into inaction. Truth does not win unless someone promotes it and goodness will not triumph unless someone advances it. Who will advance the truth? The orthodoxy will not tolerate innovative ideas that defy its paradigm. The pioneers ( liberal muslim) are often outsiders. They are mavericks and heretics, rejected by the orthodoxy in this case the wahhabism as the orthodox. Not all learning is knowledge. Most people have learned a lot, but they know little. They are scholars, but not scouts. regarding wahhabism, why more muslim follows this kinda teaching (not voice of reason n their compassion, like all liberal muslim) ? this fact is defies logic. What actually is happening is that they feel threatened. Their faith is challenged, and as the result, they hide deeper in their shell. They will not venture out, until that shell is completely broken and it can no longer provide protection (this related to ur posting Rendah diri kaum wahhabi). so to achieve that goal, we must pound on it with truth until it is smashed into pieces. Erick Fromm in, The Fear of Freedom, (Routledge 17 May 2001) upholds the idea that capitalism frees man from a society that reduces him to a single role, but at a price. The price is isolation. Man has to find or create his place in the world. This causes anxiety. Whilst fascism, Nazism, theocracies, and all forms of authoritarianisms, satisfy mans psychological need to belong. They provide a simple us vs. them ethos which gives the adherent something bigger to be a part of. Through conformity man tries to beat the anxiety of separation. That means loss of freedom and loss of independence. By conforming you belong, but you give up your wholeness and become a part of something else. The fear of being different, to be isolated, to become an outcast, is cause for anxiety and this is what makes us humans conform conform with the norms and the dictums of the society with its values, its standards, its mores and its wisdom. We need to find something to belong to. Our peers, our country, our religion and ultimately our faith/ideology give us security and the sense of
Re: [ppiindia] Janda - Re: Al-Qiyadah Menyimpang dari Tauhid Islam
dear dwi, u re rite..:).. anywy, in this case i agree with pak radityo, he got a good point. but unfortunately, i think his opponent cant be reasoned, and talked logically. so it just waste of time, but i think most of intelligent ppl in this milist agree with pak radityo..:) case closed. PS : im not pak radityo's supporter..:)..just try to add a perspective. peace Dwi Irwanti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear carla,... i think i agree with u...is not worth 4 a debate n focus 4 discuss..:) like i was saying...smell of cakes with different cover, we could know their character behind. cheers.. -i2n- --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, carla annamarie kneefel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: dear pak Radityo, argumentum ad hominem is not worth for a debate..:)..but it could make reader to interpret or judge the emotional state of the writer. (n maybe if their write something ad hominem abusive, we could know a tiny glimpse of their character). i think when we re debating or discussing something we could be and re entitled to be determine n aggresive but in the intellectual manner, should stick to the subject, provide data n facts regarding to the subject, and strongly avoid argumentum ad hominem. abt from the chronology of debate below, i think it's the example of appeal to ridicule argument: This is a rhetorical tactic which mocks an opponent's argument, attempting to inspire an emotional reaction (making it a type of appeal to emotion) in the audience and to highlight the counter-intuitive aspects of that argument, making it appear foolish and contrary to common sense. This is typically done by demonstrating the argument's logic in an extremely absurd way or by presenting the argument in an overly simplified way, and often involves an appeal to consequences. peace..:) sFe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: biasalah Mas, pak Medi ini kan sepertinya selalu ingin mencari2 kelemahan dan kesalahan Salma, tapi gpp, hal ini akan semakin membuat Salma paham karakter berbagai type manusia. Apalagi yang beda Iman, ideologi (misalnya), asal jangan kelihatan sekali ingin mendiskreditkan. Dalam hati diakui benar, tapi karena faktor x, jadi sellau salah mulu ditampilan luarnya terhadap pendapat dan pikiran orang lain. sepertinya ini sudah bawaan lahir, dan mungkin merupakan 'penyakit hati', agak susah mengobatinya. Maaf kalau keliru sFe hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mohon bapak mediacare membaca pernyataan mbak Salma dengan cermat dan teliti. Tidak ada sedikitpun mbak Salma menghina SEORANG janda. Yang disampaikan mbak Salma adalah HANTU yang janda bukan SEORANG JANDA. HANTU tidak sama dengan ORANG. Kalau menurut saya, malah bapak sendiri yang menghina Mbak Salma dengan mengatakan perempuan jadi-jadian. Mana ada perempuan jadi-jadian bisa menulis email yang berbobot. Tks. - Original Message - From: mediacare To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:29 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Janda - Re: Al-Qiyadah Menyimpang dari Tauhid Islam Mohon Salma tidak menghina kaum janda. Menjadi seorang janda bukan berarti menderita. Menjadi seorang janda, selain karena nasib ditinggalkan oleh sang suami yang meninggal dunia, juga akibat perceraian. Jadi tolong hargailah kaum janda yang notabene seorang perempuan. Dari pernyataan Anda, saya tidak yakin Anda seorang perempuan. Kalau toh iya, pasti perempuan jadi-jadian. salam, rd - Original Message - From: sFe To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 4:21 AM Subject: [zamanku] Re: [ppiindia] Re: Pemerintah: Al-Qiyadah Menyimpang dari Tauhid Islam Sudah hantu, janda lagi, lengkaplah penderitaannya. Menanggapi hantu sama saja membiarkan diri menjadi bodoh. Tapi membiarkan hantu merusak Tauhid seenak-e dewe dikhawatirkan akan banyak hantu2 lain di milis ini bergentayangan, dan penalaran hantu ini perlu diluruskan, cukuplah hantu yang tersesat kalaupun memang ingin menyesatkan diri. tafsiran ayat yang disebutkan, begini lengkapnya: Sesungguhnya orang-orang mu'min, orang-orang Yahudi, orang-orang Nasrani dan orang-orang Shabiin (1), siapa saja di antara mereka yang benar-benar beriman kepada Allah (2), hari kemudian dan beramal saleh (3), mereka akan menerima pahala dari Tuhan mereka, tidak ada kekhawatiran terhadap mereka, dan tidak (pula) mereka bersedih hati (QS 2:62) penjelasan : (1) Shabiin ialah orang-orang yang mengikut syari'at Nabi-nabi zaman dahulu atau orang-orang yang menyembah bintang atau menyembah dewa-dewa. --- sebelum Risalah dari Allah datang melalui Nabi2 dan Rasul utusan-Nya. (2) Orang-orang mu'min begitu pula orang Yahudi, Nasrani dan Shabiin yang beriman kepada Allah termasuk beriman kepada Muhammad s.a.w., percaya kepada hari akhirat dan mengerjakan amalan yang saleh, mereka mendapat pahala dari Allah. --- Yahudi
[ppiindia] Fwd: [hardrockfm] [OOT] INFO BUKU MURAH BERKUALITAS, KOLEKSI TERBARU BULAN NOVEMBER 07.
dear all, fyi... Note: forwarded message attached. - Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Desak pemerintah AS beber UFO
CNN. com by CNN Political Desk Managing Editor Steve Brusk PHILADELPHIA (CNN) So if there are space aliens, can they register to vote? Perhaps Democratic presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich is courting their support, discussing a UFO sighting in Tuesday nights debate. He confirmed an account in actress Shirley MacLaines book that he saw a UFO at her home in Washington state. Though he didnt address the rest of her description, that the Ohio congressman felt a connection in his heart and heard directions in his mind. Kucinich said to moderator Tim Russerts question, It was an unidentified flying object, OK? It's, like, it's unidentified. I saw something. To laughter, he added, I'm also going to move my campaign office to Roswell, New Mexico, and other one in Exeter, New Hampshire, OK? And also, you have to keep in mind that more that Jimmy Carter saw a UFO and also that more people in this country have seen UFOs than I think approve of George Bush's presidency. Rival candidate Barack Obama, asked if he believes in life on other planets, responded, You know, I don't know. And I don't presume to know. What I know is there is life here on Earth, and that we're not attending to life here on Earth. We're not taking care of kids who are alive and unfortunately are not getting health care, Obama continued. We're not taking care of senior citizens who are alive and are seeing their heating prices go up. So, as president, those are the people I will be attending to first. There may be some other folks on their way, he added. The Democratic presidential candidates next square off November 15 at CNN's debate in Las Vegas. radityo djadjoeri [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jawa Pos, 14 Nopember 2007 http://www.jawapos. co.id/index. php?act=detail_ cid=312617 Desak Pemerintah Beber UFO WASHINGTON - UFO mungkin mitos belaka bagi sebagian orang. Namun, sekelompok mantan pilot menilai unidentified flying objects (UFO) -objek terbang tak teridentifikasi- itu justru sebaliknya. Bahkan, mereka yang mengaku pernah melihat fenomena aneh tersebut di langit itu menuntut agar pemerintah Amerika Serikat membuka kembali penyelidikan atas UFO. Beberapa pilot mengaku menyaksikan UFO dengan mata kepala sendiri, termasuk benda berbentuk cakram transparan yang terbang dan kendaraan berbentuk segi tiga dengan tanda misterius. Kenyataan tersebut membuat mereka bersikukuh agar hal itu dianggap serius meski AS sudah menutup file penyelidikan UFO selama 30 tahun. Kami ingin pemerintah AS berhenti mengatakan mitos kalau semua UFO bisa dijelaskan dengan akal sehat, kata Fife Symington, mantan gubernur Arizona, AS, sekaligus pilot angkatan udara yang mengatakan melihat UFO pada 1997. Kami menuntut negara membuka kembali penyelidikan resmi yang sudah ditutup pada 1969, ujar Symington di hadapan wartawan. Kami yakin, demi alasan keamanan nasional dan penerbangan, seluruh negara harus berusaha mengidentifikasi objek yang berada di kawasan udara mereka, tegasnya dalam pernyataan yang ditandatangani 19 mantan pilot dan pejabat pemerintah dari seluruh dunia. UFO belakangan muncul sebagai bahan perdebatan di antara kandidat presiden AS. Isu tersebut menguak setelah salah seorang kandidat dari Partai Demokrat Dennis Kucinich mengatakan bahwa dia pernah melihat UFO. Pernyataan Kucinich tersebut menjadi bahan ejekan di beberapa tayangan komedi tengah malam di AS. Mereka yang menyangkal keberadaan UFO mengatakan bahwa UFO hanya pesawat, satelit, atau meteor yang memasuki atmosfer bumi. Namun, semua itu berbalik dengan keyakinan mereka yang melihat UFO. Tidak ada bahan pelatihan yang mempersiapkan apa yang kami saksikan, kata James Penniston, pensiunan pilot Angkatan Udara AS. Penniston mengatakan, dia melihat dan menyentuh UFO ketika bermarkas di Woodbridge, Inggris. Digambarkan, objek yang disentuhnya adalah kendaraan berbentuk segi tiga yang memiliki cahaya biru dan kuning. Cahaya itu berpendar eksterior di kendaraan tersebut. (AFP/BBC/tia) blog: http://artculture-indonesia.blogspot.com - Be a better pen pal. Text or chat with friends inside Yahoo! Mail. See how. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make Yahoo! your homepage. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [ppiindia] Why Indonesia is afraid of condemning dictatorships
in my opinion, indonesian ppl re not afraid to condem dictatorship, but the ppl that we put in the government and ppl that we put as our legislative representatives, re afraid of condemning dictatorship. even some of them actually told the media that they want to condem the dictator but there're no realization. not even closed. the dictatorship's legacy is a culture of indonesia's self-destruction. ironically, since suharto step down (formally) from his highest office, indonesia lost a leader who can lead. since then maybe we have presidents but no leader. ( i have a great respect for Gus dur, he is a great man, but too bluntly honest to be a politician, maybe from all indonesian presidents i favoured him...thats my personal view and i know not everyone agreed) anyway, regarding the dictatorship, the power is still there, but invisible..., the dictator still reign but in the different kinda form. peace tossi20 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why Indonesia is afraid of condemning dictatorships Aboeprijadi Santoso, Amsterdam Under a flourishing democracy, a bill was recently passed condemning a dictatorship that persecuted and executed thousands -- not in post- Soeharto Indonesia, but in post-Franco Spain. What can we learn from democratic Spain's experience pursuing reconciliation? The Spanish state has for the first time condemned Gen. Francisco Franco's coup, and his 39-year dictatorship, and denounced the regime's crimes against its opponents. The bill has yet to pass the senate but is already regarded as a milestone in efforts to resolve issues which have divided the nation for too long. On July 17, 1936, rebel generals, among them Franco, seized power from the democratically elected, left-leaning government. A fierce and profound war (1936-39) followed, involving key state figures and social classes -- church against the state, land owners against landless, and fascism against elected socialists, communists and anarchists. Since Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy backed Franco, and the Soviet Union helped arm the Republicans, the Spanish civil war became a precursor to WWII. Some 500.000 were killed or executed. Postwar Europe and the U.S. tolerated Franco's regime. Democratic changes only came after Franco's death in 1975, but past abuses were swept under the carpet -- until last month. In 2004 the state initiated a symbolic reconciliation, by inviting two icons of the civil war; Angel Salamanca, a former Franco supporter, and Luis Royo, an anti-fascist fighter, to attend the national parade. The political parties, however, boycotted the festivity. Franco's victims felt dishonored by the state invitation and the conservatives feared disgrace. Neither a reconciliation with (former) fascists nor accommodating their legacy seemed acceptable. Prime Minister Josi Luis Rodriguez Zapatero's socialist supporters brushed aside opposition complaints the bill would reopen old wounds. Spain suffered from her unique experience as a nation whose deep- seated schism -- and civil war -- were directly linked to WWII and enforced thereafter. Elsewhere in Europe fascist regimes were defeated, hence, reconciliation was never contemplated; today war victories are celebrated and psychologists are available for traumatized war victims, but Europe, in a sense, is still fighting WWII: Fascism survived in Spain and Franco's legacy remains so strong that this war must now end to maintain unity and resolve a burdened past. Reconciliation should be possible, that is, without opening the Pandora's box of public hysteria. Uncovered mass graves of Franco's victims have, since 2000, been used to attack the conservatives who suggest Franco's dictatorship was moderate and basically propose to forget the past. They were undermined while supporting the bill on Francoism, with what has been termed the Law of the Historical Memory (LHM). The so-called 1975 unwritten promise that reportedly brokered Spain's democracy said if pro-Franco forces relinquished power after Franco's death, no one would be tried or pursued for past abuses. In 1977, an amnesty law assured no one would be held to account, but justice remains elusive without any prosecution for the extra-legal killings. In short, the message was, let's forgive, not forget. Under LHM state funds are used to unearth mass graves and pay compensation to victims' relatives. The law also orders the removal of all Franco-era symbols from public places and declares the military trials that led to the execution and imprisonment of thousands of Franco's enemies to be illegitimate. The law's objective is, however, no longer to reconcile former foes, but to recognize and widen the rights of those who suffered in the Civil War and Franco dictatorship. This law is the beginning not the end. Many victims died without justice, the pro-victim campaign leader, Emilio Silva, said bitterly. If Spain cannot achieve justice for
Re: [ppiindia] Salma dan Eramuslim - Re: Gereja Katolik Digugat
dear pak Radityo, i think from all ur comments u re far more intellectually superior..:). judging from ur comments u treat others with decency and respect. and u have good compassion, u re sharp in dealing with injustice, but u re honest enough to deal with the truth. i guess those quality re rare to get from some ppl. maybe for some ppl the janda issue's debate is lame to discuss or to debate on, but i got ur message is the principle on how we view others not by prejudice perception (bcs prejudice and self-justification lead to hatred). anyway, many ppl claimed to be self-rigtheous, claimed to be a kind person, they portraited them selves as very religious person, but i think we can see the real person by their attitude towards others, how their treat others with respect not by ridiculed them. i have more respect for an atheist who treat others with respect and compassion than a religious hypocrite. despite all religions in the world, whatever religions they might be. the best thing is attitude. without an attitude whatever religion we claimed to be good or the best, ppl re simply gonna laugh and think we re making fun of our self, and more importantly we re degrading our precious religion. from my personal perspective..u re doing a good job to defend injustice..:)..btw u have to loosen up a bit..bcs some of these responds from people to ur comments re good for a good laugh., dont take it serious ok..?..:) peace pe sFe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: kalo giliran untuk Muslim, begini deh kalimat2 pak Medi. Padahal bukan sekali dua kita sama2 melihat, bagaimana pihak2 non Muslim di milis ini memberitakan hal2 jelek dan terkesan mencari-cari kesalahan ummat Muslim dan ajarannya, but pak Medi yang unfair ini tidak pernah menuliskan komentar2nya. sebagai seorang mediator dan berkiprah di dunia media (pemberitaan), mestinya pak Medi dapat membedakan mana tulisan yang bersifat info, kritik, ataupun berita. salah besar kalau pak Medi menilai maksud tujuan Salma ini, yang sebenarnya hanya sekedar berbagi berita agar rekan2 non Muslim lainnya yang selama ini sangat2 saklek mengeritik perilaku Muslim, dapat juga melihat realita di dalam ajaran agamanya, bahwa peluang korupsi dan hal2 jelek yang selama ini dituduhkan kepada kaum Muslimin, ternyata juga menimpa dan terjadi pada ajaran agama mereka. hope u got my pint. jangan sembarangan memberi penilaian dan kesimpulan lah pak Medi. mestinya bapak sebagai mediator, cukup menilai dan menyimpulkan dengan penilaian yang seimbang, tidak berdasarkan apa yang bapak pikirkan, selfish itu namanya. dan Salma berani bertaruh 1000% pak Medi sangat salah menebak2 siapa Salma. magdalena? demi Allah Salma tidak mengenalnya, dan pak Medi telah keliru lagi menebak siapa Salma. i'm only the humble woman. Selain kepada Islam dan Muslimin serta kepada Allah, tidak ada kepentingan Salma dalam setiap apa2 yang Salma postingkan dan komentari. sFe mediacare [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dalam perilaku bisnis internasional ada etika, baik yang tertulis maupun tidak. Adalah tabu bagi mereka untuk menjelek-jelekkan perusahaan dan produk pesaing. Mereka bukan hanya takut akan terkena gugatan, tetapi sudah tertanam di benaknya bahwa menjatuhkan nama perusahaan dan produk punya pesaing itu akan berimbas pada citra mereka sendiri. Hal seperti itu mustinya berlaku juga untuk agama. Adalah perbuatan tak terpuji kalau ada umat pemeluk agama A menjelek-jelekkan agama B, C dan seterusnya. Apalagi melalui sarana media. Situs eramuslim adalah media yang membawa nama agama. Jadi semestinya cukup mengupas saja tentang Islam dan kegiatan umat Muslim, bukan sebagai sarana untuk menjelek-jelekkan agama lain. Kritiklah agamanya sendiri, agar umatnya menjadi lebih berpikiran maju. Semisal ikut berkampanye untuk menyadarkan birokrat yang korup. Menyadarkan mereka yang doyan menebangi pohon. Bukankah sebagian besar dari pelakunya adalah umat Muslim? Kalau saya simak dari suara-suara di beberapa milis, situs eramuslim dan majalah sabili adalah media yang banyak dicibiri. Jadi Salma sebagai redaktur eramuslim seperti halnya Magdalena mustinya sadar diri. Tak ada bagusnya menjelek-jelekkan agama lain kalau nanti tidak akan kena batunya. - Original Message - From: sFe To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:49 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Aturan Membujang Gereja Katolik Digugat, Sejumlah Pendeta Pilih Menikah http://www.eramuslim.com/ Aturan Membujang Gereja Katolik Digugat, Sejumlah Pendeta Pilih Menikah Selasa, 12 Des 06 15:50 WIB Sebuah keuskupan di Zambia, Afrika terus melontarkan wacana menolak aturan Vatikan soal kehidupan membujang atau pengebirian bagi para pendeta. Meskipun akibat penolakan itu, Vatikan mengucilkan keuskupan tersebut sejak dua bulan lalu. Yesus Kristus sendiri tidak pernah
Re: [ppiindia] Janda - Re: Al-Qiyadah Menyimpang dari Tauhid Islam
dear pak Radityo, argumentum ad hominem is not worth for a debate..:)..but it could make reader to interpret or judge the emotional state of the writer. (n maybe if their write something ad hominem abusive, we could know a tiny glimpse of their character). i think when we re debating or discussing something we could be and re entitled to be determine n aggresive but in the intellectual manner, should stick to the subject, provide data n facts regarding to the subject, and strongly avoid argumentum ad hominem. abt from the chronology of debate below, i think it's the example of appeal to ridicule argument: This is a rhetorical tactic which mocks an opponent's argument, attempting to inspire an emotional reaction (making it a type of appeal to emotion) in the audience and to highlight the counter-intuitive aspects of that argument, making it appear foolish and contrary to common sense. This is typically done by demonstrating the argument's logic in an extremely absurd way or by presenting the argument in an overly simplified way, and often involves an appeal to consequences. peace..:) sFe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: biasalah Mas, pak Medi ini kan sepertinya selalu ingin mencari2 kelemahan dan kesalahan Salma, tapi gpp, hal ini akan semakin membuat Salma paham karakter berbagai type manusia. Apalagi yang beda Iman, ideologi (misalnya), asal jangan kelihatan sekali ingin mendiskreditkan. Dalam hati diakui benar, tapi karena faktor x, jadi sellau salah mulu ditampilan luarnya terhadap pendapat dan pikiran orang lain. sepertinya ini sudah bawaan lahir, dan mungkin merupakan 'penyakit hati', agak susah mengobatinya. Maaf kalau keliru sFe hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mohon bapak mediacare membaca pernyataan mbak Salma dengan cermat dan teliti. Tidak ada sedikitpun mbak Salma menghina SEORANG janda. Yang disampaikan mbak Salma adalah HANTU yang janda bukan SEORANG JANDA. HANTU tidak sama dengan ORANG. Kalau menurut saya, malah bapak sendiri yang menghina Mbak Salma dengan mengatakan perempuan jadi-jadian. Mana ada perempuan jadi-jadian bisa menulis email yang berbobot. Tks. - Original Message - From: mediacare To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 1:29 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Janda - Re: Al-Qiyadah Menyimpang dari Tauhid Islam Mohon Salma tidak menghina kaum janda. Menjadi seorang janda bukan berarti menderita. Menjadi seorang janda, selain karena nasib ditinggalkan oleh sang suami yang meninggal dunia, juga akibat perceraian. Jadi tolong hargailah kaum janda yang notabene seorang perempuan. Dari pernyataan Anda, saya tidak yakin Anda seorang perempuan. Kalau toh iya, pasti perempuan jadi-jadian. salam, rd - Original Message - From: sFe To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 4:21 AM Subject: [zamanku] Re: [ppiindia] Re: Pemerintah: Al-Qiyadah Menyimpang dari Tauhid Islam Sudah hantu, janda lagi, lengkaplah penderitaannya. Menanggapi hantu sama saja membiarkan diri menjadi bodoh. Tapi membiarkan hantu merusak Tauhid seenak-e dewe dikhawatirkan akan banyak hantu2 lain di milis ini bergentayangan, dan penalaran hantu ini perlu diluruskan, cukuplah hantu yang tersesat kalaupun memang ingin menyesatkan diri. tafsiran ayat yang disebutkan, begini lengkapnya: Sesungguhnya orang-orang mu'min, orang-orang Yahudi, orang-orang Nasrani dan orang-orang Shabiin (1), siapa saja di antara mereka yang benar-benar beriman kepada Allah (2), hari kemudian dan beramal saleh (3), mereka akan menerima pahala dari Tuhan mereka, tidak ada kekhawatiran terhadap mereka, dan tidak (pula) mereka bersedih hati (QS 2:62) penjelasan : (1) Shabiin ialah orang-orang yang mengikut syari'at Nabi-nabi zaman dahulu atau orang-orang yang menyembah bintang atau menyembah dewa-dewa. --- sebelum Risalah dari Allah datang melalui Nabi2 dan Rasul utusan-Nya. (2) Orang-orang mu'min begitu pula orang Yahudi, Nasrani dan Shabiin yang beriman kepada Allah termasuk beriman kepada Muhammad s.a.w., percaya kepada hari akhirat dan mengerjakan amalan yang saleh, mereka mendapat pahala dari Allah. --- Yahudi, Nasrani, dan penyembah dewa2 yang achirnya beriman kepada Allah dan kepada Muhammad. (3) Ialah perbuatan yang baik yang diperintahkan oleh Agama Islam, baik yang berhubungan dengan ibadat atau tidak. jadi, kalau Yahudi, Nasrani dan penyembah dewa2 tersebut achirnya beriman kepada Allah dan Rasulnya (convert to Islam), dan melaksanakan amalan2 yang diperintahkan oleh Allah (amalan saleh), barulah mereka mendapat pahala. Jikalau tidak, berarati mereka tidak beriman kepada Allah dan Rasulnya, jadi tentu saja amalan2 yang mereka anggap saleh, akan tertolak secara otomatis! Buktikan kalau MUI mempertuhankan diri sendiri, ini jenis fitnah baru. Jika hantu bener2 seorang Muslim, tentu hantu mengetahui apa yang
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Le Figaro: Presiden Prancis Nicholas Sarkozy = Agen Mossad - SO, WHAT?
u re rite.., so what? maybe advantage for france, in a war against terrorism.., mossad is the best ally to fight side by side against the satanic osama..:)..so if sarkozy proven to be the ex- mossad's agent, he had the best training in intelligent...lol. (it;s my opinion, not general opinion..:) worst case scenario.., if he was an ex-nazi or ex-terrorist agent.. but sarkozy as an ex-mossad agent is just an accusation from unknown source, this person/ppl sent the accusation by email, and cant be trace who the sender is. btw abt the eramuslim's article regarding this story, it's not a full whole article referred to the original article at le fargo, eramuslim just pick lines that suitable to what they want the indonesian readers think. but if u read the original post from le fargo, u will know the big difference story from what eramuslim article said. judged from eramuslim's article, i think if they wrote the indonesian translation from france..im definitely sure that the eramuslim's translator cant read france well. although nothing wrong with some details. every media that re not objective have their own agenda, so better check and re-check the fact. dont believe before u know for sure the facts. if u re not careful u will be mislead and mis-inform... peace. indoshepherd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Presiden Prancis Nicholas Sarkozy adalah Agen Mossad - SO, WHAT? Hidup Presiden Nicholas Sarkozy !!! Hidup Israel ! Hidup Zionisme ! Down with Islamofascists, Islamo-terrorists, Islamo-jihadists and Islamo-fundamentalists ! Death to Osama bin Laden ! Death to Ahmadinejad ! salam, indoshepherd --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, sFe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: afwan, sebenarnya selama ini source2nya yang salma posting layak dipercaya deh, cuma kadang males aja copas linknya, makan waktu :P sFe mediacare [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nah gitu dong. Artinya dari eramuslim kan? Misal tidak ada linknya, lain kali cukup ditulis: sumber: www.eramuslim.com Syukran - Original Message - From: sFe To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [ppiindia] Le Figaro: Presiden Prancis Nicholas Sarkozy Adalah Agen Mossad bermasalah sekali? baiklah. chek this out! http://www.eramuslim.com/berita/int/7b10115712-le-figaro-presiden- prancis-nicholas-sarkozy-adalah-agen-mossad.htm baca juga berita2 terkait. sFe mediacare [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Salma, tolong dong sekali saya saya ingatkan kalau kirim artikel untuk menuliskan sumber beritanya dari mana. Syukur-syukur dicantumkan juga link URL addressnya (kalau ada). Misal di bawah ditulis: Republika - 10 November 2007 atau dari eramuslim? hidayatullah? sabili? - Original Message - From: sFe To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2007 2:53 PM Subject: [ppiindia] Le Figaro: Presiden Prancis Nicholas Sarkozy Adalah Agen Mossad Le Figaro: Presiden Prancis Nicholas Sarkozy Adalah Agen Mossad Sabtu, 10 Nov 07 11:58 WIB Surat kabar terbitan Prancis Le Figaro menurunkan sebuah laporan yang mengungkap hubungan Presiden Prancis Nicolas Sarkozy dengan badan intelejen Israel Mossad. Laporan Le Figaro menyebutkan bahwa Sarkozy sudah bertahun-tahun berhubungan dengan Mossad, bahkan jauh sebelum ia terpilih menjadi Presiden. Ia bekerja sebagai Sayan-dalam bahasa Ibrani berarti 'pembantu'-bagi rejim Zionis Israel. Dalam buku yang ditulis seorang agen Mossad bernama Victor Ostrovsky, Sayan adalah orang-orang Yahudi yang tinggal di luar negeri, yang banyak membantu operasi-operasi intelejen Mossad. Menurut Le Figaro, sebelum pemilu presiden, kepolisian Prancis menyimpan rapat-rapat surat-surat keterangan tentang keterlibatan Sarkozy di masa lalu sebagai agen spionase Mossad. Dari surat-surat itu diketahui bahwa Sarkozy menjalankan aktivitas mata-mata sejak tahun 1983. Berita seputar keterlibatan Sarkozy dalam kegiatan mata-mata bersama Mossad mengemuka bersamaan dengan kunjungan kenegaraan PM Israel Ehud Olmert ke Prancis untuk membahas program nuklir Iran. Berita ini menimbulkan banyak pertanyaan. Sejumlah analis meyakini, selain menjadi agen Mossad, Sarkozy juga menjadi agen ganda untuk AS. Ini terlihat dari langkah Sarko, si Sayan yang mengikuti langkah AS dengan memilih pendekatan keras terhadap Iran dan program nuklir damainya. (ln/presstv) Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.15.27/1121 - Release Date: 09/11/2007 19:29 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Send instant messages to your online friends
Re: [ppiindia] Le Figaro: Presiden Prancis Nicholas Sarkozy Adalah Agen Mossad
Strange Accusations of a Cyber-raven by JEAN-MARC LECLERC Le Figaro, October 12, 2007 INTERNET The PJ (Police Judiciere) investigates an electronic mail that was sent during the presidential election to one hundred top responsible of the police force. The email affirms that Sarkozy, like Balkany, Lellouche, Devedjian and Aeschlimann were connected to Mossad. Did a dispensary want to destabilize Nicolas Sarkozy during the presidential campaign? An inquiry entrusted to the Police Judiciere (Judiciary Police) must establish this. At the end of March, 2007, in the 'last right' of the election, all departmental managers of the Public Security, around one hundred senior civil servants, were sent a strange electronic mail. The future president was bluntly accused of having been recruited in 1980s by Mossad, the Israeli secret service. The sent text comes in the form of a synthesis of two pages. Its title is: « The infiltration of the Israeli Mossad in the UMP. Nicolas Sarkozy: the fourth man. » Above, a pseudo-logo of the DGSE. « All this smells heavily of manipulation, with reek from the extreme right », warns a senior executive in the ministry of the Interior. According to the author of the email, in 1978 the government of Menahem Begin ordered the infiltration of the Gaullist party to make a kind of partner of it for Israel. The operation was set up by Rafael Eytan, an Israeli spy-master. « Three French citizens predisposed to collaborate » would therefore have been targeted: Patrick Balkany, Patrick Devedjian and Pierre Lellouche. Balkany is introduced as the leader of network. In 1983, Patrick Balkany would have recruited the young and promising Sarkozy, the « fourth man of the Mossad ». The fifth recruit came to complete the implement in the 1990s: Manuel Aeschlimann, deputy-mayor of Asnières (Hauts-de-Seines). The cyber-raven affirms that this one is close to Sarkozy « and is in charge of establishing contacts with Iranian representatives in France ». A proposition all the more perfidious as his city of Asnières really receives a strong Iranian community. No traces. Embarrassed, the police at the time must have reported the contents of this strange email and the quality of its addressees in high places. Immediately, an inquiry was carried out diligently and entrusted to PJ. The policemen discovered that the message came from a cybercoffee in Vald' Oise. But the raven chose well the place from where to blow the whistle in a trade where anonymity is the rule. He chose a cybercafé where law does not impose to introduce papers to access computers and there was no video surveillance. No footprint and no trace of DNA could be exploited. The expertise of machines gave nothing. No more than the semantic analysis of the text. And the inquiry continues at the request of the Office of Public Prosecutor. At the risk of giving in this affair an importance which it did not deserve. dear fyi, for better understanding, below is the original article from Le figaro (france newspaper), and also i have the english translation. if u can read france..it will be better to understand:) Here is the original French article: Les étranges accusations dun cybercorbeau JEAN-MARC LECLERC Le Figaro, October 12, 2007 INTERNET La PJ enquête sur un courriel envoyé durant la présidentielle à cent hauts responsables de la police. Il affirmait que Sarkozy, comme Balkany, Lellouche, Devedjian et Aeschlimann, étaient liés au Mossad. UNE OFFICINE a-t-elle voulu déstabiliser Nicolas Sarkozy durant la campagne présidentielle ? Une enquête confiée à la Direction centrale de la police judiciaire doit létablir. Fin mars 2007, dans la dernière droite de lélection, tous les directeurs départementaux de la sécurité publique, soit une centaine de hauts fonctionnaires, ont été destinataires dun étrange courriel. Le futur président y était taxé, ni plus ni moins, davoir été recruté dans les années 1980 par le Mossad, le service secret israélien. Le texte envoyé se présente sous la forme dune « note de synthèse » de deux pages. Son titre : « Linfiltration du Mossad israélien dans lUMP. Nicolas Sarkozy: le quatrième homme. » Au-dessus, un pseudo-logo de la « DGSE ». « Tout cela respire la manip à plein nez, avec des relents dextrême droite » , prévient un cadre dirigeant au ministère de lIntérieur. Selon lauteur du message, en 1978, le gouvernement de Menahem Begin aurait commandité linfiltration du parti gaulliste pour en faire une sorte de partenaire dIsraël. Lopération aurait été montée par Rafael Eytan, maîtreespion israélien. « Trois citoyens français prédisposés à collaborer » auraient donc été ciblés : Patrick Balkany, Patrick Devedjian et Pierre Lellouche. Balkany est présenté comme le chef du « réseau ». En 1983, Patrick Balkany aurait recruté le « jeune et prometteur »
Re: [ppiindia] Relativitas Kesesatan Aliran Sesat
dear fyi, heresy means disambuguation, theological or religious opinion or doctrine maintained in opposition, or held contrary to religious system considered as orthodox. i think the so-called heretic in islam is interesting yet confusing and argumentative, and muslim ppl in indonesia need more clarification abt the so-called heretic in islam, whether MUI has the theological right or political right to do it, i leave that question to u..let u be the judge.., yet MUI is the official institution appointed by government to deal with issues related with Islamic teachings. here re the facts of the so-called heretic in islam that well-documented: Generally in islamic world: 1. there're two main body of islam the sunnis and shi'as. these main denominations view each other as heretical. shi'a: shi'a muslim considered the descendants from Muhammad thru his daugther fatima zahra and ali were the best source and knowledge abt Quran n islam, the most trusted carriers and protectors of Muhammad's sunnah. Hossein Nasr has quoted: Shi'ism was not brought into existence only by the question of the political succession to Muhammad as so many Western works claim (although this question was of course of great importance). The problem of political succession may be said to be the element that crystallized the Shi'ites into a distinct group, and political suppression in later periods, especially the martyrdom of Imam Husayn-upon whom be peace-only accentuated this tendency of the Shi'ites to see themselves as a separate community within the Islamic world. The principal cause of the coming into being of Shi'ism, however, lies in the fact that this possibility existed within the Islamic revelation itself and so had to be realized. Inasmuch as there were exoteric[Zaheri] and esoteric[Bateni] interpretations from the very beginning, from which developed the schools (madhhab) of the Sharia and Sufism in the Sunni world, there also had to be an interpretation of Islam which would combine these elements in a single whole. This possibility was realized in Shi'ism, for which the Imam is the person in whom these two aspects of traditional authority are united and in whom the religious life is marked by a sense of tragedy and martyrdom... Hence the question which arose was not so much who should be the successor of the Muhammad as what the function and qualifications of such a person would be.[3] 2. group like sufis are regarded heretical by some sunnis, but often accepted as valid by shi'as. 3. group of the hurufiya regarded as heretical by other denominations. 4. group of the bektashi also regarded as heretical by other denominations. 5. wahhabism movement: often denotes religious and political extremism related to Islam. In its narrowest and most precise sense Wahhabism is a teaching that was formulated in the 18th century by Arabic religious reformer Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. This teaching later became and still remains an official ideology of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Wahhabis are either supporters of the ideas, constituting the teaching of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, or members of organizations that are guided by this teaching. In 1999 the Badr publishing house, registered and located in Moscow, issued the third edition (5 thousand copies) of The Book of Monotheism by M.S.Tamimi (Muhammad ibn Suleyman at-Tamimi), a student and follower of Ibn Abd al-Wahhab. And yet, followers of Wahhabi principles abstain from relating the word Wahhabism to the religious teaching of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, as well as to the official doctrine of the modern Saudi Arabia and to the ideology of movements and groups that accept and disseminate Wahhabi ideas and implement Wahhabi principles throughout the world, Russia included. The main reason why Wahhabis don't want to be called Wahhabis is that otherwise they would implicitly acknowledge the accusations that many Muslims bring against them. These are claims that Wahhabis are Islamic heretics (mubtadi'ah), or people who follow a specific religious teaching that was developed by a particular man (Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab) at a particular time (18th century), a teaching that hadn't existed before in this form. The Arabic word heresy (bid'ah) is derived from bada'ah (to introduce something new) and means a condemned and rejected innovation. 6. ahmadiyya is considered as heretical by other denominations. however if islamic denomination and practice in indonesia re variant, muslim ppl in indonesia mostly sunnis dominant, ( i dont know whether all MUI members re also sunnis or else). also there're shi'as, sufism also gained acceptance in indonesia, also there're a javanism muslims (kejawen, kebatinan) who blend islamic practice with amalgam of animism and tradition, also there's ahmadiyya. so leave us the question of which is
Re: [ppiindia] KEAJAIBAN AL QUR'AN DAN ILMU PENGETAHUAN MODERN
dear Pak Radityo, on the contrary, i found it kinda amusing, hillariously funny the previous posting by pak Nizami. here are facts that re well-documented, abt inovations and science: BC. I. 8500 BC : A method of preserving numeric information in clay was invented by the Sumerians between 8000 and 3500 BC. around 1950 BC sexagesimal number system was fully developed at the beginning of the Old Babylonia period and became standard in Babylonia. This system was exported from Babylonia and used throughout Mesopotamia, and by every Mediterranean nation that used standard Babylonian units of measure and counting, including the Greeks, Romans and Egyptians. Babylonian-style sexagesimal numeration is still used in modern societies to measure time (minutes per hour) and angles (degrees). oldest GREEK system was attic numeral but in 4th century BC they began to use a quasidecimal alphabetic system. JEW began to use similar system (HEBREW numeral) with oldest examples known being coins around 100 BC. The most commonly used system of numerals is known as Hindu-Arabic numerals, and two great Indian mathematicians could be given credit for developing them. Aryabhatta of Kusumapura who lived during the 5th century developed the place value notation and Brahmagupta a century later introduced the symbol zero. from India, passed on to Muslim mathematicians, along with astronomical tables brought to Baghdad by an Indian ambassador around 773 AD. 2. 3000 BC CHINESE invented : Abacus : A counting device: a mechanical device for making calculations consisting of a frame mounted with rods along which beads or balls are moved. 3. 2800 BC EQYPTIAN invented : the devised 12 month- 365 calendar. (it's so sad that the great cvilization as eqypt destroyed after the barbaric arabs invaded n conquered them..since then no great civilization anymore, piramids re the last that stand) 4 .2737 BC CHINESE invented: Tea by Emperor Shen Nung 5. 1550 BC EQYPTIAN : earliest surviving medical text book in Eqypt. 6. 650 BC : standardized coins made by GREEK 7. 512 BC: CHINESE produce cast iron from blast furnaces 8. 400 BC: two GREEKS invent catapult, the first artilery weapon. 9. 312 BC: the first great ROMAN road. 10. 210 BC : Archimedes the GREEK scientist, invent the archimedean screw, for raising water, works out the theory of levers. 11. 100 BC: Glassblowing invented in SYRIA (too bad this great civilization also destroyed after the invasion of barbaric arabs..) EARLY AD. 1. 105 AD : paper invented in CHINA by Ts' ai lun 2. 300 AD : Stirrups invented in China, enabling horse-riders to use weapons effectively. 3. 475 AD : Horse collar invented in China. 4. 600 AD : The heavy plow invented by the Slavs. 5. 770 AD : Horseshoes come into use in Europe. 6.1000 AD: CHINESE invented a weak from gunpowder. 7.1100AD:Water power used for iron-making in Europe. 8. 1286AD : eyeglasses invented in Europe. 9. 1300 AD: Spinning wheels found in Europe. and since 14th - 2000th.. johannes gutenberg, leonardo da vinci, michael angelo, blaise pascal, isaac newton, thomas edison, anton van leeuwenhoek, benjamin franklin, james watt, william watts, joseph and jacques montgolfier, alessandro volta, louise braille, michael faraday, samuel colt, ada lovelace, alexander bain, elisha graves otis, alfred nobel, henri nestle, sylvester roper, carl linde, alexander graham bell, seth wheeler, harley procter, george eastman, jhon dunlop, nikola tesla, wright brothers, charles taylor, marie curie, amadeo giannini, albert einstein, robert goddard, henry ford, john logie baird, alexander flemming, enrico fermi, bill gates..etc.. there re more..but u can google by ur self..:) not to mention plato (428 BC), socrates (469 BC), aristotle (384 BC), phytagoras (582 BC), thales, democritus, , cicero, thomas aquinas, montaigne, kant, locke, george berkeley,and many many more. just googe by ur self ok..im just giving u a tiny glimpse... now...regarding the subject previously posted..., ju can judge it by ur self..based on facts n intellectual objectivity..., the conclusion it's kinda sad and ironic. why above the wonderful thing that pak Nizami posted earlier, that all the glory and greatest science and innovations in this earth, why the infidels..why the kaffurs?...i just wonder..what ur God was thinking back then. i think ur God maybe has a high sense of humour.. mediacare [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Pak Nizami, Jauh ratusan tahun sebelum Masehi, ilmu dan teknologi sudah berkembang. Di China, Egypt, Yunani, India dan sebagainya. Jadi kalau patokannya abad ke 7 Masehi dan itu adanya di Tanah Arab mah tidak lucu sama sekali. - Original Message - From: A Nizami To: ppiindia@yahoogroups.com ; lisi Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 11:39 AM Subject:
Re: [ppiindia] Re: [PKS] Mayoritas Penemuan Modern Ditemukan Ilmuwan Muslim
dear Pak Kartono, actually there're scientist, philosophers, mathematican, astronomers that could be associated with islam such as: 1. al- farabi, ibn sina, al-kindi ( these three philosophers combined aristotelianism and neoplatonism with other ideas introduced to Islam) but sadly in their era, their teaching according to islam was heretic and they re considered as non-islamic philosophers. abt ibn sina: excelled in medicine but his contribution to science and philosophy is also greatly remembered. Muslims proudly call him the doctor of doctors and enjoy virtual pleasure, alleging him as a golden age of golden Islam. Despite taking the credit, Muslim countries never benefited from his works, however many hospitals, clinics, pharmacies and hotels of Islamic countries are named after him. Ironically, European universities added Ibn Sinas medical and philosophical works to their curriculum but they remained unknown to the witch factories aka madrassas of the Muslim world. However, his freethinking mind did not accept the absurdities of Islam. He opined in his autobiography under the chapter of THE AFTER LIFE. after life is a notion received from religious teaching; there is no way of establishing its truth save by way of religious dogma and acceptance of the prophets report as true; there refers to what will befall the body at the resurrection and those corporal delights or torments which are too well-known to require restating here. Even during his lifetime ibn sina (Avicenna) was suspected of infidelity to Islam; after his death accusations of heresy, free thought and atheism were repeatedly leveled against him. 2. al razi ( abu bakr mohammed ibn zakariya ar- razi) another great physician wrote more than 200 books of one half of them are about medicine and rest in physics, mathematics and astronomy. Like Ibn Sina, Ar-Razis works had set milestones in medical science. The most controversial book On Prophecy has not survived for an obvious reason. Most likely embarrassed Muslims could not swallow the contents that humiliated the prophet of Islam. Somehow, a part of his second book slipped through the hand of ignorant. Ar-Razi quipped -These billy goats (Prophets) pretend to come with a message from God, all the while exhausting themselves in spouting their lies, and imposing on the masses blind obedience to the words of the master. 3. abu 'l-ala ahmad b. abdallah al-ma'arri al ma'arri was also known as the eastern lucretius was famous for poetry and grammar, He was born in Syria but traveled many places until he became blind. He lived in Baghdad for only eighteen months but within this short time he made a name for himself as a poet. After returning from Baghdad , he lived in his hometown Marra for another fifty years. Because of his fame, students from distant places went to Al-Marri to learn from him. Like Ibn Sina, al-Marri did not believe in resurrection and strongly condemned religious beliefs. One of his poems says it all . Hanifs (Muslims) are stumbling, Christians all astray Jews wildered, Magians far on error's way. We mortals are composed of two great schools: Enlightened knaves else religious fools...' 4. astronomer and and philosopher muslim born Omar khayam. Omar khayam was best known for his rubaiyats or poems but he was outstanding mathematican and astronomers, He also wrote a book of music, an un-Islamic act that may throw him in a burning hell. His calculation of 365.24219858156 days making a year is so close to accurate that modern scientists respectfully remember his name. Omar Khayyam also found a geometric solution of cubic equations. Islam strictly prohibits Martini and bikini. According to Quran, Muslim women are not allowed to reveal their beauty and drinking wine gives you a one-way ticket to hell. But Omar Khayyam was an admirer of beauty and wine. Drinking wine is my travail Till my body is dead and stale At my grave site all shall hail Odor of wine shall prevail. Another piece of gem Heaven is incomplete without a heavenly romance Let a glass of wine be my present circumstance Take what is here now, let go of a promised chance A drumbeat is best heard from a distance. Sadly, Muslim intellectuals do not understand that those golden age of Islam did not care for the Quran neither they discovered anything out of that book. Even though they had the chance of discovering from relatively fresh Quran but they followed the trend of Pythagoras, Aristotle (384-322 BC), Euclid (325-265 BC), Archimedes (287-212 BC), Ptolemy (85-165 AD). Jabir Ibn Haiyan, born unknown and died in 803, probably saw the earliest Quran, served hot from the oven. Interestingly he called Socrates 'the father and mother of all philosophers' and considered him as the prototype of the real chemist instead of finding any chemical formula from the Quran. Pythagoras
Re: [ppiindia] Pemerintah: Al-Qiyadah Menyimpang dari Tauhid Islam
Islam, the Multicultural Cemetery #8213; An Open Letter to an Educated Liberal by Alexander Maistrovoy 09 Jul, 2007 And for the first time, with a sudden shiver, came the clear knowledge of what the meat I had seen in the Underworld might be. These careless Eloi were mere fatted cattle, which the ant-like Morlocks preserved and preyed upon. The Time Machine of Herbert George Wells My dear brainy friend! The communist slogan in the former Soviet Union was: We say Lenin, we mean the Party, we say the Party, we mean Lenin. For you it could sound like this: We say multiculturalism, we mean Islam, we say Islam, we mean multiculturalism. The Muslim world is the last and sole barrier on the way to your dream about cultural pluralistic society. Even Spanish (?!) can be French*. An Arab cannot be. In despair you are ready to fasten on a kaffiyeh on yourself and a yashmak on your wife in order to drag a Muslim into your Cloud Castle. Its your fixed idea, your choice. I will only remind you, my starry-eyed friend, what a role of a true believer is in the multicultural society, when he comes there invited or uninvited. For hundreds of years the Middle East was the embodiment of real multicultural ideal, the thesaurus of spiritual and philosophical knowledge. Antique mystery religions and Zoroastrism; the Ebonites and the first Christian sects; Gnosticism and Kabbalistic teachings; the Neoplatonics and the Manichees, the Arians and the Nestorians â all of them had co-existed in harmony. They conveyed their ideas and viewing of the world from one to another in this gigantic melting-pot of human spirit. Whether you know about it or not, it was from this fathomless source, that European philosophy, theology and learning got strength which paved the way to freedom and liberal values. One of the first acts of triumphant Islam was the burning of the famous Alexandrine library. But it was only the beginning, because at that time Islam was relatively tolerant and noble. And what is more, it joined this melting-pot (so, my dear friend, don't blame me of jaundice). Islam showed the world the mysticism of Sufis with their poetry of Life and extenuation of material benefits, expressed in Druze religion. Much later, the most humanistic religion of the present times (the Bahá'shy; Faith) arose from Islam. It also gave birth to Ahmadiyya movement, which believed in the improvement of the world through love. Unfortunately, obsession and obscurantism intensified. First, Sunni in Saudi Arabia found themselves under the dogmatic and obscure Wahhabite rule, then Salafies and Muslim brothers appeared. Formerly latent Utopias in Shi'a Islam turned into paranoia before our eyes. Even in the time of medieval inquisition in Europe fresh ideas existed. There were different philosophic schools: from Albert the Great to Thomas Aquinas to Meister Eckhart to Roger Bacon. There was Italian Proto-Renaissance with Dante Alighieri, Giovanni Pisano and Giotto. There was craving for freedom, personified in the Katars, Waldenses, Czech Hussites, and Lollards. And now tell me, my clever friend, what kinds of philosophic, spiritual schools do you know in the modern Islamic world? Enlighten me, I will be happy! There are few courageous people, who denounce dogmatic Wahhabites, like Sheikh Abdul Hadi Palazzi and Dr. Taufik Hamid from Egypt. But they are social outcasts of the Muslim world and they live beyond the bounds of it. Let me ask you: what has remained from the multicultural world of the Middle East? Do the Zoroastrians and Bahá'shy;s stay in Iran, their homeland? It will be easer to find them in a cemetery in that country, than living. Those who could escape flew to India and the West. Had the Sufis remained in Saudi Arabia? No, they were annihilated by the regime as the enemies of true Islam. Can you find a branch of Ahmadiyya movement at least in one of the countries of the Middle East? You can do it only in one place: so hated by you Israel (although I make no question of you being a Jew), the state-of-racism-apartheid-and-coercion. Their centre is in Haifa. So is the famous Bahá'shy; sanctuary. The Sufis are free in Israel, and the Druzes are enjoying full civic rights in Israel. Not long ago the Arabian East was a palette of ancient and unique Christian sects. Waves of Islamic fanaticism swept away all of them. The Christians of Iraq and the West Bank escaped to the USA and Canada. Copts left Egypt. It may happen to the Maronites in Lebanon: the country is on the verge of the Green revolt. Iraqi Gnostics-Mandaeans are exposed to genocide and on the on the verge of annihilation. Not mentioning about Darfur. And you don't see it! Because the Mandaeans are not the beloved Palestinians, who claim for your special attention! In 20-30 years the Middle East will turn into a multicultural cemetery with an oasis in the form of Israel. If
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Titik Temu Islam dan Sekularisme di Turki
dear all, klo saya boleh berpendapat..secara global saya melihat bangkitnya gerakan muslim conservative dr eropa dan asia...dilihat dengan semakin banyaknya perkumpulan maupun muslim yg bergabung dalam gerakan ini. rata2 mereka adalah org muslim kelahiran eropa or asia..berasal dr keluarga menengah dan berpendidikan.. karena jumlah muslim disetiap neg eropa diperkirakan akan melebihi jumlah penduduk eropa..terutama di perancis di US snediri terjadi krisis moral politik dan culture war..di US org mengindetikkan kebebasan dgn JUST DO IT IF U LIKE IT...teori relativisme..yg menurut saya adalah teori pagan modern dimana semuannya adalah relatif dan kebenaran hanya bersifat subjektif, terdapat civil right movement yg banyak hidden agenda or propaganda, amerika telah kehilangan culture rootnya. menurut pendapat saya..amerika sekarang bukanlah amerika yg dicita2 oleh para founding fathers..., US harus balik ke culture root nya. Rusia telah menjadi invisible hands bagi iran, dan China bagi korea utara, peta politik kekuasaan telah shifted, maybe US is or will be no longer super power...(walaupun tehnologi persenjataan masih dipegang oleh US and israel) but i dont know..i hope US still be a super power though.. menurut saya, politik kekuasaan Islam lebih kuat dibanding sebelumnya, apalagi dengan pergantian kekuasaan di turki, dimana selama ini turki dikenal dgn sekularismenya.. hope for the best Carla RM Danardono HADINOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, A. Marconi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ** Bisakah mas Danardono mengingat kembali pelajaran sejarah Eropa Barat sebelum renaisance? Dan bandingkan dengan perkembangan kebudayaan masyarakat manusia Timur Tengah di bawah kepemimpinan para sultan dan raja-raja Muslimin. Kini para ilmuwan Barat yang jujur mengakui peranan pionir-pionir keilmuan Muslimin bagi pencerahan Eropa Barat yang dikungkung oleh zaman kegelapan abad pertengahan. --- Bisakah mas marconi mengingat kembali tindakan nyata apa yang bangsa Eropa lakukan untuk keluar dari kegelapan? Pernah dengar rennaisance? Enlightment? Aufklaerung? pernah dengan dampak pencerahan dari Revolusi Perancis? Tidak saja Barat mengikuti jejak ilmuwan Timur Tengah, kini Jepang mengikuti jejak ilmuwan barat. Bumi berputar, lihat kedepan jangan kebelakang! Yang dibelakang tinggalah sekam dan abu dari api yang pernah membara, nyalakanlah api yang membara, jangan mengkais sekam.. * Namun retorika yang saya kemukakan bukanlah suatu apologetik bagi kemandulan berfikir dan keterbelakangan budaya masyarakat Muslimin pra-kolonialisme dan imperialisme Eropa Barat dan Amerika Serikat. Sampai saat ini demi menahan perkembangan pemikiran Islam di negeri-negeri bekas kolonial Barat, negara-negara Eropa dan Amerika terus melakukan tekanan-tekanan ekonomi, finansial, ilmu dan teknologi dan apabila dirasa perlu ditindas dengan kekerasan militer (perhatikan Timur Tengah dewasa ini termasuk Indonesia sebagai negeri berpenduduk mayoritas Muslimin). Kemajuan budaya manusia dan kenikmatan ekonomi yang didapatkan oleh Eropa Barat dan Amerika Serikat dengan dibimbing oleh ideologi pagan, musyrik, tidak akan membawa masyarakat manusia dan manusianya ke tiga prinsip dasar seruan dan gema revolusi burjuis Perancis. Kenikmatan hidup saat ini di negeri-negeri yang sudah mas Danardono kunjungi (?) itu sifatnya tidak langgeng. Sebab cara-cara perolehannya diharamkan oleh hukum yang berlaku bagi masyarakat manusia. Sebaliknya justru akan menggiring manusianya memasuki era keruntuhan budaya, sebagaimana telah dialami oleh bangsa-bangsa kuno Mesir, Aztek, Asyiria, Romawi, Byzantium, Ankor (Kamboja) dll. Banyak budaya yang runtuh, karena melakukan kesalahan fatal, termasuk kejayaan khalifat. Hanya ada DUA peradaban agung, yang sudah exist dizaman Farao, dan KINI masih exist: budaya India dan budaya Tiongkok (denhgan sub budayanya? jepang, Korea, Vietnam). Belajarlah dari mereka! *** Homosapiens-sapien (manusia modern) baru muncul di Bumi kira-kira 20 ribu tahun yl, kata para anthropolog. Jadi 2000 tahun bukan jumlah yang banyak bila kita ukur dengan waktu kelahiran Bumi yang baru 4,5 milyar tahun. Sedangkan kira-kira umur matahari hanya akan mencapai sekitar 10 milyar tahun saja. Jadi demikianlah hukum yang sudah ditentukan oleh Sang Maha Pencipta alam semesta ini. Tinggal kita mau menerima atau tidak. No better way than the Stright Boulevard of Islam. Betul. Manusia bisa terlahir kembali setelah wafat sejuta tahun silam. Atau ribuan tahun. No better way then Boulevard of Islam, adalah pekik keinginan, namun belum pernah terjadi dalam sejarah. Kini yang memimpin Asia, dan akan tetap memimpin adalah the light of Buddhism, lihat India, Jepang dan Tiongkok.. Yemen, Sudan, Afganistan akan tetap melata seperti ini, juga 2000 tahun lagi. Mau taruhan?
Re: [ppiindia] Hasyim Muzadi: Khilafah Islamiyah bukan Gerakan Agama, tapi Politik
Pak Badrun said : Dan saya yakin suatu saat nanti wacana Khilafah Islamiyah bisa terealisasi nyata dan menebarkan kedamaian, kedamaian, dan keselamatan dimuka bumi. just curious aja...neh pak...bagaimana cara konkrit nya khilafah islamiyah bisa secara real menebarkan kedamaian dan keselamatan di muka bumi? is it by converting all 6 billion ppl in the world into Islam?..ditambah lagi didalam internal islam juga saling2 berantem n bunuh2an sampai sekarang? n pls provide contoh konkrit satu aja..gak usah banyak deh..satu contoh suatu negara yang menganut sistem khilafah islamiyah misalnya Iran, yang memang dalam realisasinya telah menebarkan kedamaian dan keselamatan diseluruh dunia..di seluruh dunia loh pak.. saya tunggu jawabannya yaa..pak badrun.. Al-Badruuni Enterprise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rekan Indunisi, Khilafah Islamiyah adalah term yang paling mendekati dari implementasi ajaran dan syariah Islam, baik dalam hal-hal muammalah terlebih ubudiyyah. Ajaran dan nilai-nilai Islam tidak akan dapat terealisasi optimal jika tidak didukung Khilafah Islamiyah. Bagi pemeluk Islam, penerapan syariah Islam adalah mutlak dan wajib dijalankan. Dan saya kira kesadaran kearah sana sudah mulai berkembang seiring dengan pengetahuan dan pemahaman Islam yang telah sedikit demi sedikit dimiliki oleh umat Islam Indonesia. Dan saya yakin suatu saat nanti wacana Khilafah Islamiyah bisa terealisasi nyata dan menebarkan kedamaian, kedamaian, dan keselamatan dimuka bumi. Wassalam, Ahmad ---=GuN=-- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.harianbangsa.com/main.php?aksi=beritacategories=Aktualidnews=6507 Aktual - Rabu 6 September 2006 13:48:33 WITKhilafah Islamiyah bukan Gerakan Agama, tapi PolitikJakarta-HARIAN BANGSA Ketua Umum Pengurus Besar Nahdlatul Ulama (PBNU) KH Hasyim Muzadi meminta warga nahdliyyin (sebutan untuk warga NU) dan umat Islam pada umumnya untuk waspada atas munculnya wacana Khilafah Islamiyah yang kerap dihembuskan kelompok Islam radikal. Wacana itu pada dasarnya tak lebih dari gerakan politik, bukan gerakan keagamaan. Khilafah Islamiyah itu sebenarnya gerakan politik, bukan gerakan agama. Karena di situ lebih kental aspek politiknya daripada aspek agama, ibadah, ubudiyah-nya. Yang difokuskan itu kan sistem kenegaraan, bukan bagaimana membuat madrasah, masjid, menciptakan kesejahteraan umat, dan sebagainya, ungkap Hasyim saat bersilaturrahim dengan para petinggi Pimpinan Pusat (PP) Lembaga Dakwah (LD) NU di Kantor PBNU, Jalan Kramat Raya, Jakarta, Selasa (5/9). Kiai Hasyim, begitu panggilan akrab Pengasuh Pondok Pesantren Al Hikam, Malang, Jawa Timur itu, sistem ketatanegaraan berikut sistem kepemimpinannya, sebagaimana tertuang dalam konsep Khilafah Islamiyah, cukuplah mengacu pada sistem yang berlaku di negara masing-masing. Siapapun yang jadi kepala negara, yang telah diproses secara sah, baik menurut ukuran agama maupun negara, ya dia itu kholifah (pemimpin, red). Nggak usah cari model-model yang lain, tegasnya. Dalam kesempatan itu, Hasyim juga mencermati tumbuh-suburnya kelompok-kelompok Islam radikal berikut gerakannya di Indonesia. Padahal, katanya, hampir di sebagian besar negara-negara di Eropa dan Timur Tengah, kelompok-kelompok Islam garis keras itu tidak menemukan tempat, bahkan dilarang hidup. Di Eropa, Timur Tengah, seperti Yordania dan Syria, mereka (kelompok Islam radikal, red) nggak punya tempat. Tapi di Indonesia, mereka bisa hidup leluasa dan semakin merajalela, tuturnya. Kepada para pimpinan LDNU, mantan Ketua Pengurus Wilayah NU Jawa Timur ini mengingatkan, persoalan yang cukup mengkhawatirkan itu harus segera mendapat sikap dari NU. LDNU, katanya, sebagai sebuah wadah yang memiliki tugas mendakwahkan serta menyosoialisasikan paham Ahlussunnah Wal Jamaah (Aswaja) ala NU, dituntut tanggungjawabnya. Jika tidak, maka NU akan terikut ke dalam arus gerakan kelompok Islam radikal itu. Tak Mampu Bikin Masjid Sendiri Pengamatan Hasyim juga tak luput dari fenomena diambilalihnya sejumlah masjid milik warga nahdliyin oleh kelompok Islam ekstrim kanan. Menurutnya, hal itu dilakukan karena kelompok yang kerap dengan mudah mem-bidah-kan bahkan mengkafirkan warga nahdliyyin itu tak mampu membangun masjid sendiri. Sehingga kemudian mengambilalih masjid-masjid yang selama ini dibangun dan dikelola oleh warga nahdliyyin berikut takmir masjid dan tradisi ritual peribadatannya. Karena mereka tidak mampu membuat masjid sendiri, kemudian mengambilalih masjid milik orang lain (masjid milik warga nahdliyyin, red), terus dipidatoin di situ untuk politisasi. Kan maksudnya begitu. Yang dirugikan akhirnya kan NU, terang Hasyim. (rif - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - Do you
Re: Kesimpulannya apa?Re: [ppiindia] Beginikah nasib Indonesia kalau Syariah Islam di terapkan? Gimana Mbak Aris
kejadian yang dialami oleh Lina Joy juga dialami di mesir, apabila seorang muslim convert ke agama lain bukan cuma dipersulit, tapi bahkan ada ancaman mau dibunuh lah, ada kasus dimana telah terjadi penganiayaan... saya jadi curious neh, pertanyaan saya: 1. apakah didalam ajaran islam, apabila seorang muslim yg convert ke agama lain, tidak diperbolehkan?, apakah didalam ajaran islam orang tersebut harus terkena hukuman? even harus dibunuh? bukankah agama adalah hak pribadi seseorang, sehingga bukan urusan ulama bahkan hak neg untuk membatasi kebebasan seseorang untuk memeluk atau berpindah agama. anyway, saya mau komen neh tulisan mba dibawah yg menyatakan di dalam agama nasrani juga terdapat hal yg sama dengan ajaran islam mengenai hukuman mati bagi orang yg convert, apakah mba bisa memberikan bukti klo ada aturan dari gereja secara tertulis yang menuliskan hukuman untuk orang2 yang pindah agama, even di injil yg menuliskan hal tersebut...? contohnya yg paling jelas di khatolik roma, jgnkan menghukum orang yg pindah agama..mba.., Paus Johannes II aja yg ditembak oleh orang muslim, sampai harus kehilangan satu ginjalnya aja, mengampuni bahkan sampai dia mau mencuci kaki orang muslim tersebut sebagai tindakan kerendahan hati n pengampunan yg diberikan oleh Paus kepada orang muslim tersebut. coba deh mba bayangin, klo kejadian penembakan Paus tersebut, digunakan oleh Paus sebagai ajakan dan seruan bagi selurh umat nasrani sedunia untuk memusuhi orang2 moslem, bisa2 seluruh umat kristen n khatolik seluruh dunia, yang notabene lebih banyak jumlahnya dari jumlah orang muslim, mereka semua pada berebut untuk balas dendam sama umat moslem..bisa jadi perang..mba.., tapi itu gak terjadi...Paus memilih untuk mengampuni , alasannya cuma dua : kasih n pengampunan.. saya jadi curious klo ayatollah khomeini ato abu bakar baashir ditembak sama orang kristen fundies misalnya, n sampai ginjalnya harus hilang satu, apakah khomeini ato abu bakar baashir bisa melakukan tindakan yang dilakukan oleh Paus, memeluk, mengampuni bahkan mencuci kaki orang kristen fundies yang ditembak itu? mba bisa jawab gak?the point is jangan samakan orang ato ajaran nasrani dengan orang ato ajaran lain... didalam ajaran kristen, semua org bebas memeluk dan pindah agama..., apakah ada di jaman sekarang, orang kristen yg pindah ke islam, dilarang oleh gereja bahkan dihukum? karena agama dan iman itu adalah pilihan dan panggilan seseorang, tidak ada paksaan didalamnya. klo memang didalam islam, memang ada hukuman mati bagi orang2 yang pindah agama...menurut saya itulah ajaran islam, gak perlu bawa2 agama lain supaya disama2kan dengan islam sebagai justifikasi hal tersebut..menurut saya argumen mba..adalah argumen hipocrite, dangkal, n cemen... semestinya..mba bangga lah dengan ajaran yang mba anut, terima itu sebagai kebenaran yang harus mba imani, bahwa didalam ajaran yang mba anut, hukuman mati dijatuhkan untuk orang2 yang pindah agama..., gak usah minder atau gak Pede sehingga seolah2 kebakaran jenggot kalang kabut mencari agama lain untuk pembenaran hal tersebut... saya ada analogi neh, seorang anak kecil dipanggil sama ibunya karena memukul teman sekelas nya sampai babak belur si Ibu berkata apakah benar kamu mukul teman sekelas kamu sampai babak belur? jawab si anak hhmmm...iya, tetapi si ali juga melakukan hal yang sama pernah mukul aku juga sampai babak belur dan si parto juga pernah mukul yanto teman sekelas sampai babak belur? kata si Ibu ibu tidak tanya tentang si Ali, parto atau yanto dan Ibu tidak mau tanya tentang perbuatan si Ali, paro ato yanto, tapi apakah benar kamu mukul teman sekelas kamu sampai babak belur? jawab si anak iya.. si Ibu berkata : semua perbuatan kamu, apapun alasannya adalah perbuatan kamu sendiri dan tanggung jawab kamu sendiri, apabila kamu selalu membenarkan perbuatan kamu karena dengan mencari2 kambing hitam yaitu orang lainjuga melakukan perbuatan yang sama, atau membenarkan perbuatan kamu sebagai alasan kamu membalas perbuatan jahat yang orang lain perbuat atas kamu, maka kamu akan tumbuh menjadi anak yang mau menang sendiri, pendendam, diliputi kebencian, defensif, selalu menganggap diri paling benar. si Ibu melanjutkan : janganlah kamu membalas perbuatan orang lain yang berbuat jahat terhadap kamu, janganlah kamu membenci bahkan menghukum orang lain karena dia berbeda dengan mu, atau kamu membenci teman mu yang dulu mereka sama dengan mu dan sekarang mereka telah berubah, hormatilah pilihan orang lain dan hormatilah perbedaan mudah2 orang tua jaman sekarang, mendidik anaknya dengan berakhlak n punya rasa cinta kasih bukan saja untuk orang2 yang sama dengan mereka tapi juga untuk orang2 yang berbeda dengan mereka, solidaritas untuk sesama bukan saja untuk sesama yang sama dengan mereka tapi juga untuk sesama yang berbeda, mencintai perbedaan, menghormati pilihan
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Poligami dilarang di Amrik?
sebenarnya di US, ada beberapa hal yang telah dilarang misalnya: 1. pelarangan berdoa sebelum proses belajar-mengajar untuk seluruh neg bagian di US, putusan pengadilan US telah memutuskan (kla gak salah thn 60 an) dimana diajukan gugatan oleh seorang wanita terhadap pemerintah US, dimana telah menjadi kebiasaan bahwa setiap sekolah di US melakukan doa bersama sebelum proses belajar-mengajar, wanita itu menilai bahwa berdoa bersama secara publik melanggar kebebasan dan memang biasanya doa bersama tersebut dilakukan secara kristen, sehingga atas dasar sekularitas neg maka wanita tersebut menggugat agar doa bersama tersebut dihapuskan dan pengadilan US memenangkan gugatan wanita tersebut sehingga pelarangan doa bersama di sekolah dikukuhkan dengan putusan pengadilan neg US. 2. pelarangan tulisan the ten commandment MUSA didalam ruang pengadilan di US, klo gak salah pelarangan tersebut telah dikukuhkan oleh putusan pengadilan di US, karena neg US adalah neg sekuler, jadi saat ini tulisan ten commandment Musa dihapus dari ruang pengadilan di US. Alpha Bagus Sunggono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ada yang aneh nih, kok isunya barengan ama Kasus nikah Kontrak di mBogor. Keduanya di asosiasikan dengan Pelacuran. Kalo melihat sekilas kasus di bogor sih iya, pelacuran terselubung kayaknya, soalnya prosesi nikahnya gak jelas. Kalo di Amrik, itu khan berhubungan ama Sekte Kristen (Mormon ?) Dus (Thus) , Artinya, Kalo diterapkan Negara Sekular, bisa mencampuri atau bahkan melarang kegiatan beragama (saya asumsikan masalah poligami itu merupakan ajaran asli Mormon), Berarti kalo memang Negara Sekuler, suatu saat bisa dong, Melarang Berdoa, (asumsinya mungkin Berdoa itu buang2 waktu / berkhayal , dimana hal ini mungkin berbahaya bagi National Security, katakanlah dalam suatu kasus2 Time Critical) Sebagaimana saya pernah nonton Filem Kartun Homer Simpson, di Situ ada Tulisan di Dinding Rumah Sakit : No Pray !!! alias Dilarang Berdoa ! Pada tanggal 06/08/30, Lina Dahlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] menulis: Dik Bagus...:-) Saya juga gak tau cerita selengkapnya. Hanya saja ingin mengomentari bhw orang2 yang ditangkapi itu pantas ditangkap karena telah melanggar salah satu pasal hukum di Amerika, yang melarang poligami. Itu sudah menjadi konsekwensi penegakkan hukum disana. Soal mengapa poligami dilarang oleh Amerikapun gak masalah juga, apalagi Amrik negara sekuler. Freedom kan bukan berarti gak berhukum atau gak ada jaminan hukum. gitu aja. -- Salam Revolusi IT Indonesia Alpha Bagus Sunggono http://bagusalfa.blogspot.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] - How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Reading only, http://dear.to/ppi 4. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Poligami dilarang di Amrik?
sebenarnya di US, ada beberapa hal yang telah dilarang misalnya: 1. pelarangan berdoa sebelum proses belajar-mengajar untuk seluruh neg bagian di US, putusan pengadilan US telah memutuskan (kla gak salah thn 60 an) dimana diajukan gugatan oleh seorang wanita terhadap pemerintah US, dimana telah menjadi kebiasaan bahwa setiap sekolah di US melakukan doa bersama sebelum proses belajar-mengajar, wanita itu menilai bahwa berdoa bersama secara publik melanggar kebebasan dan memang biasanya doa bersama tersebut dilakukan secara kristen, sehingga atas dasar sekularitas neg maka wanita tersebut menggugat agar doa bersama tersebut dihapuskan dan pengadilan US memenangkan gugatan wanita tersebut sehingga pelarangan doa bersama di sekolah dikukuhkan dengan putusan pengadilan neg US. 2. pelarangan tulisan the ten commandment MUSA didalam ruang pengadilan di US, klo gak salah pelarangan tersebut telah dikukuhkan oleh putusan pengadilan di US, karena neg US adalah neg sekuler, jadi saat ini tulisan ten commandment Musa dihapus dari ruang pengadilan di US. Alpha Bagus Sunggono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ada yang aneh nih, kok isunya barengan ama Kasus nikah Kontrak di mBogor. Keduanya di asosiasikan dengan Pelacuran. Kalo melihat sekilas kasus di bogor sih iya, pelacuran terselubung kayaknya, soalnya prosesi nikahnya gak jelas. Kalo di Amrik, itu khan berhubungan ama Sekte Kristen (Mormon ?) Dus (Thus) , Artinya, Kalo diterapkan Negara Sekular, bisa mencampuri atau bahkan melarang kegiatan beragama (saya asumsikan masalah poligami itu merupakan ajaran asli Mormon), Berarti kalo memang Negara Sekuler, suatu saat bisa dong, Melarang Berdoa, (asumsinya mungkin Berdoa itu buang2 waktu / berkhayal , dimana hal ini mungkin berbahaya bagi National Security, katakanlah dalam suatu kasus2 Time Critical) Sebagaimana saya pernah nonton Filem Kartun Homer Simpson, di Situ ada Tulisan di Dinding Rumah Sakit : No Pray !!! alias Dilarang Berdoa ! Pada tanggal 06/08/30, Lina Dahlan [EMAIL PROTECTED] menulis: Dik Bagus...:-) Saya juga gak tau cerita selengkapnya. Hanya saja ingin mengomentari bhw orang2 yang ditangkapi itu pantas ditangkap karena telah melanggar salah satu pasal hukum di Amerika, yang melarang poligami. Itu sudah menjadi konsekwensi penegakkan hukum disana. Soal mengapa poligami dilarang oleh Amerikapun gak masalah juga, apalagi Amrik negara sekuler. Freedom kan bukan berarti gak berhukum atau gak ada jaminan hukum. gitu aja. -- Salam Revolusi IT Indonesia Alpha Bagus Sunggono http://bagusalfa.blogspot.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] - How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Reading only, http://dear.to/ppi 4. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ppiindia] RI Siap Lindungi Lebanon dan Palestina
Pak Ahmad, just quick question neh...RI mo lindungin Lebanon and Palestina pake apaan?...ngelindungin neg sendiri aja belom tentu mampu, tentara RI dikirim sbg pasukan jihad ato pasukan perdamaian..? Al-Badruuni Enterprise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mas Harry, Khan Israel tidak pernah kita anggap sebagai negara penuh..hehehe.makanya kita tidak punya hubungan diplomatik ama mereka. Karena itu,ya hajar saja.. Ahmad Harry Adinegara [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kadang2 aku kalau baca berita media dari Indonesia itu, hati ku jadi miris. Kurang jelas apa aku perlu kaca mata atau intelek ku kurang karena aku jadi bingung. Coba baca berita dibawah ini. Indonesia siap kirim pasukan ke Lebanon dibawah bendera PBB. Tapi coba kita singkap apa yang dikatakan oleh presiden kita. RI siap lindungi rakyat Lebanon dan Palestina dari serangan Israel 1. Pasukan PBB dimana Indonesia akan ikut sebagai anggota pasukan PBB ini, sifatnya adalah netral. 2. Tidak melindungi salah satu pihak yang ber-tikai, tapi menjaga ke- amanan agar pihak2 yang bertikai menghormati persetujuan yang kedua belah pihak telah menyetujuinya. Jadi bilang cuman mau melindungi rakyat Lebanon dan Palestina dari serangan Israel itu ya sudah tidak netral lagi, sudah pilih kasih. Padahal tanpa aku ingin turut campur, ya serangan Israel ke Lebanon itu adalah propokasi Hisbullah yang selain meng-agressi daerah batas negara Israel juga menculik dan membunuh serdadu Israel. Dan sebagai tambahan kalau mau ber-konfrontasi sama pasukan Israel itu ya.impossible. AB Israel itu salah satu AB terbaik didunia, bukan cuman itu mereka punya pengalaman sudah /sebelum negara Israel lahir. Ya melawan Inggris ya kemudian melawan keroyokannya negara2 Arab. Semua dilalui dengan berhasil. Mbok Pak Presiden kita itu kalau memberi keterangan mbok ya dicermati dulu agar ungkapannya itu tidak jadi teka teki dunia luar. Harry Adinegara KRISIS TIMUR TENGAH RI Siap Lindungi Lebanon dan Palestina Kamis, 17 Agustus 2006 JAKARTA (Suara Karya): Presiden Yudhoyono dalam pidato kenegaraan menjelang HUT ke-61 Kemerdekaan RI di depan sidang paripurna DPR, kemarin, di Jakarta, menegaskan kembali bahwa Indonesia siap menjalankan upaya-upaya untuk melindungi rakyat Lebanon dan Palestina dari serangan Israel. Yudhoyono menyatakan kembali bahwa Indonesia menyambut baik pengesahan Resolusi DK PBB No 1701 tanggal 12 Agustus 2006 tentang penghentian permusuhan Israel dengan Lebanon. Sebagai wujud komitmen, kita telah menyatakan kesiapsiagaan kita untuk bergabung dengan pasukan penjaga perdamaian PBB, untuk melin-dungi rakyat Palestina dan Lebanon dari serangan Israel, kata Yudhoyono di depan para anggota Dewan serta puluhan undangan, termasuk para duta besar negara asing. Indonesia telah berperan aktif dalam mengupayakan perdamaian di Lebanon dan Palestina, yang sebelumnya terus digempur secara membabibuta oleh militer Israel. Di Lebanon sendiri, lebih dari 1.000 warga sipil tak berdosa tewas dalam serangan-serangan yang dilakukan Israel dalam kurun waktu satu bulan. Setelah bersama Malaysia mendorong diadakannya KTT Darurat Organisasi Konferensi Islam (OKI) yang menghasilkan deklarasi mendesak PBB segera menghentikan konflik di Lebanon, Indonesia juga menyiapkan pasukan untuk membantu pasukan penjaga perdamaian PBB di Lebanon, Unifil (United Nation Interim Force in Lebanon). Sebanyak 850 personel TNI telah siap dikirimkan ke Lebanon. Bahkan, Menhan Juwono Sudarsono mengatakan jumlah personel telah ditingkatkan menjadi 1.000 orang. Keberangkatan 1.000 personel TNI itu sendiri masih menunggu keputusan PBB yang akan dikeluarkan pada hari Rabu tentang negara-negara mana saja yang akan bergabung dengan Unifil. Presiden Yudhoyono telah memeriksa kesiapan personel TNI yang akan menjadi pasukan baret biru dan baru-baru ini dia juga sudah menyurati Sekjen PBB Kofi Annan terkait kesiapan Indonesia untuk mengirimkan pasukan perdamaian. Sebelumnya, TNI menyiagakan satu Batalyon Mekanis berkekuatan 850 personel yang berasal dari Mabes TNI 15 orang, TNI AD (576 orang), TNI AL (221 orang) dan TNI AU 37 orang, untuk diberangkatkan ke Lebanon sebagai bagian dari pasukan pemelihara perdamaian di bawah bendera Perserikatan Bangsa Bangsa (PBB). Peralatan materiil yang melengkapi keberangkatan mereka terdiri dari 4 unit Panser Komando (V-150 CO), 4 Panser Angkut Personel (V- 150 AP), 12 Panser Intai (V-150 Tai), 14 Panser Serbu (VAB) dan 12 Panser Serbu (Panhard). Selain itu juga satu unit Jeep Kia, satu unit tangki air, dua unit Taft GT (Jeep), sepuluh unit Truck Isuzu dan dua unit kendaraan pemeliharaan (ranhar). (Antara/Hasyim) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] --- End forwarded message --- - Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Dating: It's free to check out our great singles! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - Do you Yahoo!? Next-gen
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Tibo Dkk Bukan Pahlawan, Tapi Penjahat Kemanusiaan
klo indo pecah...udah pasti hengkang tuh smua investor2 asing, smua pengusaha2 yg mayoritas perekonomian indo dikuasai investor barat, cina, jepang n korea ato pengusaha indonesia yg berketurunan cina pada gak akan ngambil resiko utk tetap tinggal di indo... apalagi klo neg ini dikuasai oleh org2 bermental fundamentalistik...paling2 balik ke jaman batu... yg kasian org2 jkt neh...kaum metropolitan yg udah terbiasa dgn modernisasi n kebebasan, klo sgala sesuatu di haramin...gmn mau hidup...? apalagi mau travel keluar neg, udah di banned di mana2.., gak bisa deh travel ke europe apalagi amrik...skarang aja ngurus visa ke blanda aja yang dulunya gampang skarang susah bgt... , terima nasib deh paling2 wisata ke gurun pasir liat onta.. mudah2an jgn pecah deh indonesia merdeka bersatu... rio_armando89 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bagaimana dengan laskar jihad yang dengan mudah membentuk pasukan, mudah pula membubarkan diri, namun tidak pernah tersentuh hukum? Bagaimana dengan tragedi ambon? Kok tidak diusut? Apa karena kebanyakan korbannya dari pihak kristen? Saudara-saudaraku, di timur indonesia banyak mata telah terbuka. Indonesia tinggal menunggu waktu untuk pecah. RIO --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, Ambon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.gatra.com/artikel.php?id=97029 Pendapat TPM Tibo Dkk Bukan Pahlawan, Tapi Penjahat Kemanusiaan Palu, 13 Agustus 2006 00:10 Tim Pembela Muslim (TPM) Sulawesi Tengah menilai pemberitaan media massa akhir-akhir ini seolah-olah menganggap bahwa Fabianus Tibo, Dominggus da Silva, dan Marinus Riwu sebagai pahlawan sehingga harus dibela, padahal sesungguhnya mereka itu adalah aktor lapangan yang membantai dengan cara sadis banyak manusia tak berdosa saat pecah konflik horizontal di Poso pada pertengahan tahun 2000. Saya kecewa dengan pemberitaan akhir-akhir ini sebab seolah-olah Tibo dkk itu diperlakukan sebagai pahlawan yang harus dibela. Ini masalah serius yang harus diluruskan oleh semua pihak, kata Ketua TPM Sulawesi Tengah (Sulteng), Asludin Hatjani SH, di Palu, Sabtu (12/8). Pernyataan tersebut disampaikan Hatjani menanggapi pemberitaan media massa nasional dan lokal di Tanah Air sekaitan tertunda-tundanya pelaksanaan eksekusi mati terhadap Tibo dkk, termasuk yang kedua kalinya pada Sabtu (12/8), pukul 00:15 waktu setempat. Sebelumnya, Kejaksaan Agung menjawadkan pelaksanaan eksekusi mati terhadap Tibo dkk pada bulan Maret 2006. Eksekusi yang direncanakan pertama kali itu gagal dilaksanakan karena alasan penyidik Polda Sulteng masih memerlukan keterangan mereka untuk mengungkap para pelaku pembantaian massal pada sejumlah tempat di Kabupaten Poso saat kerusuhan besar berlangsung Mei-Juni 2000, seperti yang terjadi di kompleks Pesantren Walisongo, Kelurahan Sintuwulembah di Kecamatan Lage (sembilan kilometer arah selatan kota Poso) dan di dusun Buyung Katedo (desa Silanca, Lage). Menurut dia, dirinya mengetahui persis bagaimana posisi Tibo, Dominggus, dan Marinus ketika pasukan Kelompok Merah menyerang basis-basis permukiman muslim di Kecamatan Lage, Poso Kota, Tojo, dan Poso Pesisir saat kerusuhan besar melanda wilayah Kabupaten Poso enam tahun silam. Sangat banyak saksi korban yang selamat menuturkan bahwa ketiga orang itu merupakan komandan lapangan dalam aksi-aksi penyerangan tersebut, selain dengan tangan mereka sendiri melakukan pembunuhan secara sadis terhadap banyak manusia tak berdosa, tutur Hatjani yang selama lebih lima tahun memberikan advokasi terhadap para korban kerusuhan Poso. Bahkan, saat menjalani pemeriksaan di Pengadilan Negeri (PN) Palu awal tahun 2001, 19 dari 20 saksi yang berada di bawah sumpah ketika itu menuturkan bahwa Tibo, Dominggus, dan Marinus tidak saja melakukan pembunuhan dengan cara sadis terhadap banyak manusia, tapi juga terlibat dalam kejahatan penganiayaan bersama-sama serta pembakaran rumah-rumah penduduk. Itulah sebabnya sangat wajar jika kemudian PN Palu menjatuhkan vonis dengan hukuman yang setimpal kepada mereka yakni pidana mati, bahkan kemudian dikuatkan oleh Pengadilan Tinggi Sulteng dan Mahkamah Agung, ujarnya. Mengenai pernyataan sejumlah pengacara yang tergabung dalam Perhimpunan Advokasi dan Perdamaian (PADMA) Indonesia bahwa Tibo dkk merupakan korban dari sebuah peradilan sesat, Hatjani mengatakan mereka itu adalah orang luar yang tak mengetahui bagaimana sebenarnya tindakan Tibo dkk saat pecah kerusuhan besar di Poso beberapa waktu lalu. Jika mau jujur, jangan hanya mendasarkan pada keterangan satu pihak. Silahkan tanyakan langsung kepada saksi korban yang selamat dan hingga kini masih hidup, kata dia, seraya menambahkan ada ratusan janda dan anak-anak korban kerusuhan Poso yang kehilangan orangtuanya akibat tragedi berdarah di berbagai tempat dalam wilayah Poso bisa dimintai keterangan. Hatjani juga mengatakan, secara logika hukum bahwa dengan diajukannya dua kali permohonan pengampunan (grasi) kepada presiden oleh Tibo,
Re: [ppiindia] Menyesatkan dari Jalan Allah - Re: *Perda2 Diskriminatif, Tulisan 2* (sebarluaskan)
pak Nizami, bagaimana dgn laki2 yg berpakaian ala gigolo, pake kaos ketat, celana panjang ketat or celana boxer...or maybe laki2 cuman pake handuk doang..klo dlihat dr generalisasi pasal2 perda tsbt..boleh dunk laki2 itu di asumsikan sbg pelacur... pelacur bukan cuman perempuan aja..pak..laki2 juga banyak..., tapi knp yg kena tangkap, di undang-undangin cuma perempuan aja..., malah sekarang pelacur laki2 gak kalah jumlahnya drpd perempuan pelacuran itu sama tuanya dgn peradaban manusia, baik laki2 maupun perempuan merupakan komoditi..., ada permintaan makanya ada penjualan..., mestinya pelaku2 pelacuran tersebut di berikan edukasi, and bimbingan spritual, apakah dgn diberlakukan perda akan menghambat atau mematikan arus perdagangan seks tsbt... contoh aja iran..banyak praktek pelacuran terselubung, and lihat aja perilaku seks orang2 arab yg pusing nahan nafsunya di negnya malah hijrah ke indo utk pelampiasan nafsu bejatnya... ditambah lagi dengan adanya diskriminasi gender menunjukkan penggagas atau konseptor perda2 tsbt tidak peka dan bodoh secara hukum, sehingga melahirkan perda2 yang memiskinkan harkat n martabat perempuan.., perda2 tesebut adalah legitimasi patriarkhi dan kepentingan politik kelompok tertentu. Free Thinker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tidak ada peraturan di Indonesia yang mendukung pelacuran. Indonesia bukan Belanda yang melegalkan pelacuran. Tapi kalau ada peraturan yang bersikap diskriminatif terhadap perempuan dan memberi peluang bagi aparat yang tak becus menuduh perempuan yang bekerja malam sebagai pelacur, tentu saja harus ditinjau ulang. Anda jangan menyesatkan: Menentang perda = mendukung pelacuran, padahal bukan begitu esensinya. Kesimpulan Anda dungu. Itu kan sama saja dalil Anda (dan banyak orang yang tak mengerti esensi perundangan) menuduh orang yang Menolak RUU APP = mendukung pornografi, padahal jelas bukan begitu maksudnya. Ini juga kesimpulan yang tak kalah dungunya. Hapuskan Perda2 diskriminatif, karena perempuan dan laki-laki sama hak dan kedudukannya di mata hukum. A Nizami [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Saya menyayangkan jika ada orang yang berusaha menghalang-halangi kebenaran dan mendukung kesesatan, kemaksiatan, atau kejahatan seperti pelacuran/perzinahan. Orang-orang yang kafir dan menghalangi (manusia) dari jalan Allah, Allah menyesatkan perbuatan-perbuatan mereka. Dan orang-orang mukmin dan beramal soleh serta beriman kepada apa yang diturunkan kepada Muhammad dan itulah yang haq dari Tuhan mereka, Allah menghapuskan kesalahan-kesalahan mereka dan memperbaiki keadaan mereka. Yang demikian adalah karena sesungguhnya orang-orang kafir mengikuti yang bathil dan sesungguhnya orang-orang mukmin mengikuti yang haq dari Tuhan mereka. Demikianlah Allah membuat untuk manusia perbandingan-perbandingan bagi mereka. [Muhammad:1-3] Jika ada aturan yang kurang sempurna misalnya pelarangan pelacuran hanya menunjuk pada pelaku wanita saja, seharusnya diperbaiki dengan melarang pelacuran dilakukan oleh siapa pun baik pria atau wanita. Bukan justru mendukung pelacuran itu sendiri. Dalam Islam pelacuran baik oleh wanita mau pun pria itu dilarang. Realita juga menunjukkan pelacuran itu merupakan satu bentuk perselingkuhan, penyebaran penyakit kelamin seperti herpes, AIDS, rajasinga, dsb serta menimbulkan lahirnya anak di luar nikah yang sering diikuti dengan pengguguran atau aborsi. Oleh karena itu gerakan mendukung pelacuran atau menentang pelaksanaan syariah Islam di mana mayoritas wakil rakyat telah menyetujui adalah satu bentuk tirani minoritas yang tidak demokratis. --- Amir S. Dewana [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: R. Husna Mulya To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:02 PM Subject: [hrwg] *Perda2 Diskriminatif, Tulisan 2* (sebarluaskan) Kebijakan Daerah Diskriminatif (Suatu Langkah Mundur dalam Upaya Perlindungan Hak-Hak Asasi Manusia di Indonesia) Pengantar Fenomena maraknya penerapan berbagai kebijakan daerah yang meresahkan masyarakat karena mengandung rumusan yang diskriminatif dan berpotensi pada munculnya ketidak pastian hukum, setidaknya dapat menjadi gambaran akan adanya ancaman serius terhadap integritas hukum nasional. Pasca penerapan otonomi daerah, otoritas derah mengalami euphoria untuk dapat mengelola pemerintahan daerahnya sesuai dengan ciri khas kedaerahan dan kondisi wilayahnya masing-masing, setelah sekian puluh tahun terikat pada sistem pemerintahan yang terpusat (sentralistik). Sayangnya, semangat yang sesungguhnya positif menjadi berbeda dalam tataran pelaksanaannya karena adanya kepentingan-kepentingan politik kelompok tertentu ataupun individual yang memanfaatkan momentum ini demi kepentingan diri ataupun kelompoknya. Munculnya berbagai kebijakan daerah yang mengatur cara berpakaian sesuai dengan aturan kelompok tertentu misalnya; merupakan suatu bentuk pelanggaran atas hak
Re: [ppiindia] Menyesatkan dari Jalan Allah - Re: *Perda2 Diskriminatif, Tulisan 2* (sebarluaskan)
the new form of facism... heil Hitler. A Nizami [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kafir tidak mempercayai Allah sebagai satu-satunya Tuhan. Kalau menyembah selain Allah seperti Tuhan Anak, Tuhan Bapak, dsb, itu adalah kafir menurut ajaran Islam. --- Alpha Bagus Sunggono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kafir itu Tidak Mempercayai Alloh Alloh adalah Tuhannya Alam Semesta. Kalau orang itu Tidak Percaya Tuhan, berarti tersesat. jadi saya kira kalimat yang lebih tepat adalah demikian. Pada tanggal 06/08/15, RM Danardono HADINOTO [EMAIL PROTECTED] menulis: Mas Nizami: Orang-orang yang kafir dan menghalangi (manusia) dari jalan Allah, Allah menyesatkan perbuatan-perbuatan mereka Lho piye to? Kafir = non Islam, jadi Kristen, Yahudi, Hindu, Hindu Bali, Buddha, Konghucu, Sikh, dll. Ini semua akan disesatkan Allah? ?? -- Salam Revolusi IT Indonesia Alpha Bagus Sunggono http://bagusalfa.blogspot.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] === Ingin belajar Islam sesuai Al Qur'an dan Hadits? Kirim email ke: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.media-islam.or.id __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com. Check it out. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Reading only, http://dear.to/ppi 4. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ppiindia] Menyesatkan dari Jalan Allah - Re: *Perda2 Diskriminatif, Tulisan 2* (sebarluaskan)
pun wanita harus dihukum. Makanya baca yang teliti jangan pakai emosi. Dalam Islam pezinah laki-laki dan wanita itu dihukum semua. Jangan sampai protes-protes eh malah hukuman buat pelacur dihilangkan. Perjuangankan hukuman pelacur baik bagi lelaki mau pun perempuan. --- Lina Dahlan wrote: Untuk menyatukan pendapat Mas Nizami dan mbak Carla, mari mbak kita perjuangkan perda buat pelacur laki-laki...:-) Dunia ini emang dah patriarkhi, mo diapain? Nabi aja semua laki2, apa kita pere mo protes? Adam aja diciptain duluan...apa kita mo protes? salam, --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, carla annamarie kneefel wrote: pak Nizami, bagaimana dgn laki2 yg berpakaian ala gigolo, pake kaos ketat, celana panjang ketat or celana boxer...or maybe laki2 cuman pake handuk doang..klo dlihat dr generalisasi pasal2 perda tsbt..boleh dunk laki2 itu di asumsikan sbg pelacur... pelacur bukan cuman perempuan aja..pak..laki2 juga banyak..., tapi knp yg kena tangkap, di undang-undangin cuma perempuan aja..., malah sekarang pelacur laki2 gak kalah jumlahnya drpd perempuan pelacuran itu sama tuanya dgn peradaban manusia, baik laki2 maupun perempuan merupakan komoditi..., ada permintaan makanya ada penjualan..., mestinya pelaku2 pelacuran tersebut di berikan edukasi, and bimbingan spritual, apakah dgn diberlakukan perda akan menghambat atau mematikan arus perdagangan seks tsbt... contoh aja iran..banyak praktek pelacuran terselubung, and lihat aja perilaku seks orang2 arab yg pusing nahan nafsunya di negnya malah hijrah ke indo utk pelampiasan nafsu bejatnya... ditambah lagi dengan adanya diskriminasi gender menunjukkan penggagas atau konseptor perda2 tsbt tidak peka dan bodoh secara hukum, sehingga melahirkan perda2 yang memiskinkan harkat n martabat perempuan.., perda2 tesebut adalah legitimasi patriarkhi dan kepentingan politik kelompok tertentu. Free Thinker wrote: Tidak ada peraturan di Indonesia yang mendukung pelacuran. Indonesia bukan Belanda yang melegalkan pelacuran. Tapi kalau ada peraturan yang bersikap diskriminatif terhadap perempuan dan memberi peluang bagi aparat yang tak becus menuduh perempuan yang bekerja malam sebagai pelacur, tentu saja harus ditinjau ulang. Anda jangan menyesatkan: Menentang perda = mendukung pelacuran, padahal bukan begitu esensinya. Kesimpulan Anda dungu. Itu kan sama saja dalil Anda (dan banyak orang yang tak mengerti esensi perundangan) menuduh orang yang Menolak RUU APP = mendukung pornografi, padahal jelas bukan begitu maksudnya. Ini juga kesimpulan yang tak kalah dungunya. Hapuskan Perda2 diskriminatif, karena perempuan dan laki-laki sama hak dan kedudukannya di mata hukum. A Nizami wrote: Saya menyayangkan jika ada orang yang berusaha menghalang-halangi kebenaran dan mendukung kesesatan, kemaksiatan, atau kejahatan seperti pelacuran/perzinahan. Orang-orang yang kafir dan menghalangi (manusia) dari jalan Allah, Allah menyesatkan perbuatan-perbuatan mereka. Dan orang-orang mukmin dan beramal soleh serta beriman kepada apa yang diturunkan kepada Muhammad dan itulah yang haq dari Tuhan mereka, Allah menghapuskan kesalahan-kesalahan mereka dan memperbaiki keadaan mereka. Yang demikian adalah karena sesungguhnya orang-orang kafir mengikuti yang bathil dan sesungguhnya orang-orang mukmin mengikuti yang haq dari Tuhan mereka. Demikianlah Allah membuat untuk manusia perbandingan-perbandingan bagi mereka. [Muhammad:1-3] Jika ada aturan yang kurang sempurna misalnya pelarangan pelacuran hanya menunjuk pada pelaku wanita saja, seharusnya diperbaiki dengan melarang pelacuran dilakukan oleh siapa pun baik pria atau wanita. Bukan justru mendukung pelacuran itu sendiri. Dalam Islam pelacuran baik oleh wanita mau pun pria itu dilarang. Realita juga menunjukkan pelacuran itu merupakan satu bentuk perselingkuhan, penyebaran penyakit kelamin seperti herpes, AIDS, rajasinga, dsb serta menimbulkan lahirnya anak di luar nikah yang sering diikuti dengan pengguguran atau aborsi. Oleh karena itu gerakan mendukung pelacuran atau menentang pelaksanaan syariah Islam di mana mayoritas wakil rakyat telah menyetujui adalah satu bentuk tirani minoritas yang tidak demokratis. --- Amir S. Dewana wrote: - Original Message - From: R. Husna Mulya To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 14, 2006 10:02 PM Subject: [hrwg] *Perda2 Diskriminatif, Tulisan 2* (sebarluaskan) Kebijakan Daerah Diskriminatif (Suatu Langkah Mundur dalam Upaya Perlindungan Hak-Hak Asasi Manusia di Indonesia) Pengantar Fenomena maraknya penerapan berbagai kebijakan daerah yang meresahkan masyarakat karena mengandung rumusan yang diskriminatif dan berpotensi pada munculnya ketidak pastian hukum
Re: [ppiindia] *Iran, Hizbullah, Hamas: leading the real Islamic movement*
yeah rite? leading islam for the real man slaughter movements, provoked and justified all forms all terrorism... re Hamas and Hezbollah completely innocent and their hands re clean from bloods? re they re the role model of true moslem? re their action re respectable and honorable in the face of all man kind? im not fond of Israel and their actions for attacking Lebanon either... there's no honor in killings...only shame Satrio Arismunandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *Iran, Hizbullah, Hamas: leading the real Islamic movement* Muslimedia.com http://www.muslimedia.com/persp200a.htm One feature of current events in the Middle East is that the three Islamic movements that perhaps deserve the greatest respect and recognition from the global Ummah are standing together against the onslaught from the West. Hamas and Hizbullah are directly engaged in conflict with the US's regional proxy, Israel, while the Islamic State of Iran stands alone among Muslim countries in offering their unconditional political and material support to both, and is being attacked by the US and Israel for precisely that reason. Indeed, it is no exaggeration to say that from the West's point of view, Iran is as much a target in this war as Hamas and Hizbullah. [naz] *Nasrallah meeting Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmeddinajad* The Islamic State of Iran has been the leading edge of the global Islamic movement ever since the Islamic Revolution in 1979. For all the prior attempts of Islamic movements in different parts of the world to achieve the goals of liberating the Muslim world from Western hegemony, and to re-establish the political and social structures of Islam, it was the Islamic Revolution that created the momentum that has made the global Islamic movement the dominant force in contemporary history. Yet for much of the last 28 years, it has not been granted the respect and recognition it deserves. The reasons for this are manifold. It has been subjected to intense propaganda from both the West and Muslim regimes, designed specifically to obscure its real importance. It has also been marginalised on sectarian grounds; much of the poison of sectarianism that currently blights the Ummah has been deliberately generated to minimise the influence of the Islamic Revolution. And of course, it has also suffered from the consequences of mistakes made by its own officials and functionaries; no-one should have expected that the first Islamic state of the modern era would be perfect. However, many within the Islamic movement have always recognised the fact that, for all its errors and even stupidities, the Islamic State of Iran stands apart and above every other Islamic movement in the world, in terms of its success in establishing an Islamic state, however flawed, and its longevity in surviving everything its enemies have thrown at it for nearly three decades. One of the points to Iran's credit has been its refusal to make any sort of compromise with the zionist state and its steadfast support for the Islamic movements directly confronting zionism, both in Palestine and in Lebanon. For much of the last few years, Muslims around the world have failed to recognise Iran's position for a variety of reasons. A far less credible Islamic movement, reflecting the salafist-jihadist trend in the Ummah, has been deliberately promoted against it, and has been deeply sectarian in its approach, doing the unity and body politic of the Ummah massive damage in the process. It now appears that, after years of manoeuvring for position, the West is preparing for increasingly direct attacks on Islamic Iran, in order to destroy the very heart of the contemporary Islamic movement. There are signs, however, that the Ummah may still instinctively recognise Iran's importance and be able to acknowledge it, and the Islamic movements that are inspired by it and model themselves on it, as the true face of the Islamic movement, and deserving of the Ummah's support in every form. One effect of the suffering in Ghazzah and Lebanon is to rally the Ummah behind Islamic Iran. If so, the West may discover that all their efforts to marginalise Iran in recent years have failed to have the effect they desired. http://www.iransolidarity.endofempire.org/ArticlesText.php?page=260 __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia
Re: [ppiindia] Nikah Kilat a la Cisarua === (Daripada berzinah . . .)
apakah ini bentuk prostitusi yang dihalalkan oleh agama? dalam prakteknya perempuan2 ini menjual dirinya, gak ada bedanya dengan psk2 yang sering ditangkap ato kadang dipake juga sama kamtib n polisi, teori ini bisa dipake juga buat psk2 yg sering ditangkep..drpd masuk kurungan n rehab mending pake teori kawin kilat ala cisarua...btw jadi pengen tau perbuatan kyk gini dianggap dosa gak? dilihat dari sudut moral dapat diterima gak? dengan berkedok formalitas n kehalalan perbuatan yg di legalkan oleh agama... btw ada yg mau volunteer for fighting this crime..? RedTOLERANSI [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: R Komentar: No Comment . . . (Bukan berarti Masabodoh) RedTOLERANSI.RR Nikah Kilat Ala Cisarua [image: Berstatus Istri Untuk Dua Hari (Dok. GATRA/Ilustrasi Foto)]Saya nikahkan Saudari Lilis binti Mulyana dengan maskawin 2 juta rupiah dibayar kontan, Jamal, 24 tahun, bukan nama sebenarnya, mengucapkan lafaz ijab kabul kepada Ibrahim, 55 tahun, sembari menjabat erat tangannya. Saya terima nikahnya Lilis binti Mulyana dengan maskawin 2 juta rupiah dibayar kontan, Ibrahim pun langsung menimpali dengan lancar. Maklum saja, secarik teks berisi lafaz ijab kabul berbahasa Indonesia tergeletak di depannya. Ini bukan prosesi pernikahan biasa. Ibrahim, lelaki asal Arab Saudi itu, sedang melangsungkan pernikahan kontrak dengan Lilis, 23 tahun, bukan nama sebenarnya, asal Sukabumi, Jawa Barat. Bertempat di sebuah vila di kawasan Puncak, Bogor, pernikahan yang terjadi setahun lalu itu hanya berlangsung tak lebih dari 15 menit. Tapi itu sudah cukup untuk meng-halal-kan Lilis dan Ibrahim sebagai suami-istri. Selesai ijab kabul, Ibrahim langsung memboyong Lilis ke penginapannya di sebuah vila di Jalan Puncak Raya, Cisarua, Bogor. Tapi, sesuai dengan kontrak sebelum pernikahan, Lilis hanya menjadi istri Ibrahim selama dua hari. Setelah itu, status Lilis bebas lagi. Ia bisa kembali mencari suami baru, yakni orang-orang Arab yang ingin menikahinya dalam waktu dan maskawin tertentu. Yang penting bagi saya, orang-orang Arab itu *ngasih* mahar (maskawin) segede-gedenya, kata Lilis kepada *Gatra*. Lilis menekuni profesi sebagai pekerja nikah kontrak sejak tiga tahun lalu. Pada 2003, setelah berpisah dari suami pertamanya asal Sukabumi, Lilis memutuskan menjadi tenaga kerja wanita (TKW) di Riyadh, Arab Saudi. Di sana ia menikah dengan orang Arab Saudi bernama Faris Ma'tuk Al-Maseri, 40 tahun. Merasa kurang cocok dengan Faris, Lilis akhirnya pulang ke Indonesia pada 2004. Setelah itu, ia berkali-kali menikah kontrak dengan orang Arab di Indonesia. Dari Umar, 38 tahun, Abdul Aziz, 35 tahun, Hasan, 40 tahun, hingga Ibrahim, 55 tahun. Kini, entah kenapa, Lilis kembali lagi ke pangkuan Faris sebagai pembantu rumah tangga sekaligus istrinya. Rasa cemburu antara saya dan istri Faris jelas ada. Tapi saya menikmatinya, kok, tutur Lilis. Ya, namanya juga cari duit. Beginilah nasib saya, ucapnya, pasrah. Kekayaan Lilis dari nikah kontrak selama tiga tahun tidaklah sedikit. Saat ini, ia sudah memiliki empang ikan seluas 70 meter persegi dan sawah berpetak-petak di kampung halamannya, Babakan Pari, Cisaat, Sukabumi. Bukan hanya itu, putri kedua dari enam bersaudara ini juga bisa membiayai kuliah kakaknya di sebuah perguruan tinggi elite di Bandung, sekaligus merenovasi rumah kedua orangtuanya. Saat *Gatra* berkunjung ke rumah orangtua Lilis, rumah di atas tanah seluas 200 meter persegi itu tampak mentereng. Pengalaman hampir sama dirasakan Marisa, sebut saja begitu. Wanita 30 tahun asal Cilacap, Jawa Tengah, ini pertama kali menikah dengan orang Arab pada 2004. Namanya Ahmad, 45 tahun, asal Arab Saudi. Dari Ahmad, Marisa menerima mahar sebesar Rp 3 juta dan nafkah bulanan juga Rp 3 juta. Sebenarnya Marisa ingin hidup selamanya dengan Ahmad. Tapi, karena Ahmad memintanya pindah ke Arab Saudi, Marisa menolak. Perjalanan rumah tangga Ahmad dan Marisa pun berakhir setelah tujuh bulan. Karena susah mencari pekerjaan, apalagi dengan tiga anak dari dua suami pribumi sebelum Ahmad, Marisa terjun ke dunia nikah kontrak lagi. Dua tahun terakhir, Marisa sudah menikah kontrak lebih dari tujuh kali. Persisnya, ia bahkan lupa. Buah kerja Marisa ini lumayan menggiurkan. Bayangkan, hanya dalam waktu dua tahun, ia sudah mengumpulkan harta sebesar Rp 100 juta. Rumah senilai Rp 60 juta di Bandung, Rp 30 juta di kampung halaman, plus sepeda motor Honda Supra Fit di tempat kosnya di daerah Jakarta Timur. Yang aneh dari Marisa, meski sudah nikah kontrak dengan Ahmad, ia juga menikah kontrak dengan orang Arab lainnya. Caranya, ketika Ahmad pulang ke Arab Saudi, ia mencari sampingan dengan menikah kontrak lagi dengan orang Arab lainnya. Saya kan jualan. Jadi, bisa ditawarkan kepada yang lainnya, kata Marisa sambil tertawa lirih. Meski orang Arab dikenal tidak romantis, Marisa mengaku merasakan kepuasan tersendiri. Selain berpostur tinggi-besar, kebanyakan orang Arab selalu *to the
Re: [ppiindia] Scholars warn government of latent jihadi danger
ideolgy yang dibawa oleh para jihadist ini adalah ideology kebencian, jadi inget trial nya Amrozi Cs dimana they re very proud and determined abt their actions, there's no regret...they re very proud to kill..and it's strange that they looked happy...gosh..guess they lost their mind..., maybe klo amrozi Cs gak ketangkap waktu itu, pasti mereka juga ikutan rombongan jihad ke lebanon. anyway, pengalaman pasca perang akan merubah mentalitas dan cara berpikir seseorang, krn itu setiap tentara2 yang ikutan perang, ada therapy emosional n spritual yg mereka butuhkan utk memulihkan diri mereka, not just physicaly but most importantly mentally and emotionally.., klo tentara2 yg udh ditrain profesional aja harus mengikuti hal2 tsbt... para jihadist bukanlah tentara..mereka cuma org sipil yg gak cukup memiliki pengalaman n training..beda sama tentara..., jelas kondisi mental n emosional juga beda..., yg mereka punya cuma ideology...justru org2 spt ini dalam pasca perang lebih berbahaya.. klo pemerintah terlalu cemen n soft dgn membiarkan mereka ikut2an perang di lebanon..sama aja pemerintah want the history of bloody suicide bombings repeat again.. tujuan mereka kesana adalah jihad dgn keinginan utk membunuh..., beda dgn pasukan2 perdamaian UN yg memang bertujuan menjaga perdamaian... tujuan para jihadist ini is a personal cause.., they are determine to kill..not for creating peace... dan klo pun mereka survive the war n pulang ke indo just create more probs..., hopefully indo government will not be that stupid to allow it to happen. Ambon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailnational.asp?fileid=20060814.H05irec=4 Scholars warn government of latent jihadi danger Ary Hermawan, The Jakarta Post, Jakarta The government should take all the necessary measures to prevent Indonesian jihadis from leaving for Lebanon or they will only create more problems when they return home, Muslim scholars say. If they could really make it to Lebanon and survive the war, they would become problems when they come back to Indonesia, Syarif Hidayatullah State Islamic University rector Azyumardi Azra told The Jakarta Post on Sunday. They would have the aura and charisma of fighters. This would be make it easier for them to recruit new militants. Azyumardi urged the government to boost security measures around border areas to ensure that no militants left the country. It should also coordinate with neighboring countries, such as Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand, to check if some Indonesian jihadis have transited there, he said. Azyumardi said Indonesians heading to Middle Eastern cities such as Abu Dhabi, Doha, Amman and Damascus should also be monitored. However, he said the government should not ban hard-liners from expressing their willingness to go on a jihad. We just have to make sure that nobody leaves, he said. The issue was not merely prohibiting jihadis from going to war-torn Lebanon, but to anticipate the growing radicalism among Indonesian Muslims, Azyumardi said. We must not let happen a repeat of when many Muslims went to Afghanistan to help the Taliban fight the Soviets, he said. Imam Samudra and Amrozi, two terrorists on death row for their key roles in the 2002 Bali bombings, were both trained for the Afghanistan war. Another hardline activist, Suaib Didu, recently boasted that thousands of Indonesians had signed up for jihad in Lebanon. Militants who had returned from Afghanistan were also involved the bloody 2002 conflict between Muslims and Christians in Maluku. Former Muhammadiyah chairman Ahmad Syafii Maarif said it was unwise for ulema to encourage young Muslims to fight a holy war in Lebanon. I think there is no wisdom in doing so, he told the Post. He said the brutal Israeli offensive into Lebanon should not lead to Indonesian Muslims losing their heads. I think whatever we do must be based on clear minds, he said. However, Syafii doubted the recent conflict would boost militant movements in Indonesia, arguing radicalism was mainly triggered by injustice and uncertainty. The country is not in a normal condition. When there is justice, radicalism will fade away by itself. Azyumardi said that joining the fight against Israel was akin to suicide and would only further burden the people in Lebanon, including Hizbollah fighters. Providing them with humanitarian aid would be much more useful, he said. I hope ulema could explain to the people that there is no use going there for jihad. National Resilience Agency governor Muladi warned Thursday that jihad volunteers were committing an illegal act and would not be protected under international law. They could be considered terrorists. If caught, they could be sent to Guantanamo prison without trials, he said. Didu, meanwhile, said he would continue recruiting jihadists, although Lebanese Ambassador Hasan
Re: [ppiindia] Volunteers sign up to fight Israel
fight for corruption, poverty and backwarness re not a popular things nowdays u have to follow the trend thesedays..., the trend is to create, join and volunteer for wars... wars re everywhere...ppl re hungry and starve not for food anymore but for blood and the flesh of their own brothers... our love for wars and hate for others are growing much stronger by reading and watching to the media..., then we shut off all the possibilities of peace... most ppl think that corruption, poverty and backwarness re too little, too cheap and so not popular or not so cool to fight for Ambon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Reflection: Why there are no volunteers sign up to fight corruption, poverty and backwarness in Indonesia? http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailnational.asp?fileid=20060812.G04irec=3 Volunteers sign up to fight Israel Police might have vowed to prevent citizens from leaving for Lebanon but at least 150 people registered to join a declared jihad against Israel at the Indonesian Mujahidin Council (MMI) office in Surakarta, Central Java on Friday. One of the fighters, Mohammad Arif, a 35-year-old native of Surakarta, said he was ready to fight alongside the Palestine people against Israel. I feel that I'm being called to fight there. This war has insulted my pride as a Muslim, said the man who has no skill in weaponry or fighting. The fighters said they would ask the Indonesian Military (TNI) and the National Police Headquarters to train them to use weapons (see photo). If they (TNI and the police) don't want to train us, we will be trained by Ambon and Poso war veterans, claimed Adi Basuki, who helped set up the post, referring to conflict-torn cities Ambon in Maluku and Poso in Central Sulawesi. Adi, who is also the spokesman for MMI Surakarta, expressed hope the government would facilitate their mission in the Middle East. Although we've raised our own funds, we hope the government will assist us, he told The Jakarta Post. Adi said the MMI had opened five registration posts for those wanting to fight in Lebanon. Apart from Surakarta, the registration is open in Surabaya, Yogyakarta, Jakarta and Padang. Those who register, he said, would be selected for training in Yogyakarta before being sent to war. National Police spokesman Brig. Gen. Anton Bachrul Alam said Tuesday that the police would stop volunteers wanting to go to Lebanon, saying it would only worsen the situation there and it was prohibited by the state. Their departure for the Middle East would be a violation of our state Constitution, which says that Indonesia should proactively contribute to world peace, he was quoted as saying by AFP. The volunteers' departure is certainly not contributing to peace and therefore is a violation of the Constitution. (JP/Blontank Poer [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Reading only, http://dear.to/ppi 4. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Sekadar bertanya, Bung Al-Baduuni dan Bung Satrio
Pak Badrun and Mba Aris, do u have peace in ur heart while u re hating others? do u have love in ur heart while u re cursing others? do all bad things done to u by others can justified ur hatred to them? do u feels happy, glad, grateful when u let hatred conquer ur heart? hate can only lead to bitterness, destruction, never ending revenge, bloodshed, and killings each other. hatred will produce hatred never peace nor love..., only love can heal the wounds and share forgiveness amongst nations... hopefully the ideology of hatred will not spread and ends here... hopefully love will win and conquer we are suffered enough bcs of hatred... May God forgive us.. Al-Badruuni Enterprise [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mbak Aris, Sekarang baru tahu khan kebenaran Al Quran bahwa kebencian yang ada dalam hati mereka sungguh-sungguh hebatnya jauh dari kebencian yang diperlihatkan kepada kita... Menurut saya apa yang disampaikan Sdr Ambon yang mengutip QS 5:51 adalah benar adanya demikian dan juga sangat jelas arti dan kandungannya,jadi tidak perlu adanya konteks ataupun tafsir yang macam-macam. Meski seharusnya kutipan tersebut sebaiknya tidak hanya diambil sepenggal-sepenggal. Berikut saya lengkapkan dari awal sampai dengan ayat 52 : -- (QS 5:51) Hai orang-orang yang beriman, janganlah kamu mengambil orang-orang Yahudi dan Nasrani menjadi pemimpin-pemimpin(mu); sebahagian mereka adalah pemimpin bagi sebahagian yang lain. Barangsiapa diantara kamu mengambil mereka menjadi pemimpin, maka sesungguhnya orang itu termasuk golongan mereka. Sesungguhnya Allah tidak memberi petunjuk kepada orang-orang yang zalim. (QS 5:52) Maka kamu akan melihat orang-orang yang ada penyakit dalam hatinya (orang-orang munafik) bersegera mendekati mereka (Yahudi dan Nasrani), seraya berkata: Kami takut akan mendapat bencana. Mudah-mudahan Allah akan mendatangkan kemenangan (kepada Rasul-Nya), atau sesuatu keputusan dari sisi-Nya. Maka karena itu, mereka menjadi menyesal terhadap apa yang mereka rahasiakan dalam diri mereka. - Itu yang bicara Allah SWT dan tidak ada keraguan pada-Nya. Di awal saya memang sering menanyakan lebih dahulu apakah diantara Sdr yang memberi tanggapan mengenai hukum Islam adalah Muslim atau bukan,karena saya takut mereka tidak mengerti dan salah memahaminya. Salam, Ahmad --- aris solikhah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maka wahai seluruh Yahudi Israel dll tunjukkan kasih sayang dan cintamu pada umat ISlam di Palestina dan Lebanon. Agar tak tersulut api benci di hati umat Islam, melihat saudara kami dibunuh, diusir, wanita diperkosa, bayi-bayi diberondong mesiu, rumah-rumah dihancurkan. Melihat semua itu salahkah umat ISlam terbit rasa benci dan tiada suka, sedih, kecewa dan luka . Tunjukkan bahwa apa yang dikatakan dalam Al Quran itu tidak selalu benar. Tunjukkan dengan bukti sikap kalian. simson gintings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sejalan dgn itu, Martin Luther King Jr berkata: Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. sg --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, RM Danardono HADINOTO wrote: Mengenai kebencian pangeran Siddharta pernah bersabda: Hatred does not cease by hatred, but only by love; this is the eternal rule... Mungkin kemampuan membenci kini menjadi modern? gagah? jantan? hanya kalau tak mampu berbuat apa apa, malah kena stroke... --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, Free Thinker wrote: Hahaha Sebuah analogi yang sangat cerdas Tidak benci Yahudi = Menghina Nabi Muhammad SAW Jangan pernah tidak membenci Yahudi!! Hiduplah dalam kebencian.. terutama terhadap Yahudi. Bencilah Yahudi, entah dia bayi-bayi tak berdosa, orang baik, para humanis yang berjasa dalam keilmuan, dsb. Pokoknya BENCILAH!! What a joke! penulis1710 wrote: tidak benci Yahudi = menghina nabi Muhammad SAW ? wah, anda bisa bisa melaporkan Kartono Mohamad ke polisi sebagai kasus penghinaan nabi. sungguh akan menjadi kasus hukum yang menarik. --- In ppiindia@yahoogroups.com, Al-Badruuni Enterprise wrote: Wah,ternyata permintaan maaf saya belum diterima secara tulus. Tapi tidak mengapa. Sebenarnya jelas sekali adanya poin yang menghina Nabi Muhammad SAW. 5. Kalau dasarnya semata-mata hanya karena benci Yahudi, apakah umat Islam Indonesia tidak jadi rasist? Melihat buruk atau baik hanya karena rasnya. Jelas yang dibenci umat Islam Indonesia adalah Yahudi,dan ini sudah diterangkan dalam Al Quran. Memang diantara kaum Yahudi ada yang saleh,namun jelas maksud umat Islam Indonesia adalah Yahudi dalam Pemerintahan Israel. Jika umat Islam sendiri (seperti KM) tidak membenci Yahudi ini ya berarti telah menghina Nabi Muhammad SAW yang
Re: [ppiindia] Re: Sekadar bertanya, Bung Al-Baduuni dan Bung Satrio
pak... Hate is a strong word... Hate yg bpk maksudkan adalah konteks hukum.., seorang polisi yang membenci kejahatan, terkadang in some circumstances harus menembak pistolnya...tp menurut saya sangat lah dangkal apabila dikaitkan dengan konteks yang sedang dibicarakan atau dgn posting email pak badrun. Polisi ditunjuk oleh UU dan hukum sebagai aparat penegak hukum, para pelanggar hukum akan melalui proses peradilan dahulu, polisi tidak bisa menembak tanpa adanya proses hukum terlebih dahului peran dan fungsi polisi telah diatur dalam UU, apabila polisi melakukan penembakan itu hanya dapat dilakukan dalam keadaan terpaksa, bukan karena membenci kejahatan tanpa terkait unsur keadaan dan menembak civilian (atau sipil) setau saya ada aturannya pak..dan bukan tembak mati. anyway ditambah lagi point dari email pak badrun is hate not circumstances. hate is a strong word, polisi boleh membenci perbuatan kejahatannya tapi bukan personnya, polisi have a job to put their personal feelings aside not mixed it with his duty. saya jadi inget ada suatu kasus: dimana ada seorg polisi yang saking membenci sama perbuatan seorg pemerkosa sampe menganiaya pemerkosa ini sampe babak belur (belom nembak loh..pak), tapi dimata hukum apakah tindakan polisi ini dapat dibenarkan? jawabannya tidak, karena segala sesuatu harus melalui proses peradilan, presumption of innocent. so short cutnya..contoh bpk tidak relevan. rgds, Carla Alpha Bagus Sunggono [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ibu Carla, terkadang hate memang diperlukan pada dosage tertentu. Contoh : Seorang Police sejati, musti merasa hate pada crime, sehingga termotivasi untuk menjadikannya no crime, entah disadarkan atau dihancurkan. Terkadang dia musti menembakan pistolnya toh? ini juga Demii .. Society .. demi ketentraman masyarakat . Pada tanggal 06/08/11, carla annamarie kneefel [EMAIL PROTECTED] menulis: Pak Badrun and Mba Aris, do u have peace in ur heart while u re hating others? do u have love in ur heart while u re cursing others? do all bad things done to u by others can justified ur hatred to them? do u feels happy, glad, grateful when u let hatred conquer ur heart? hate can only lead to bitterness, destruction, never ending revenge, bloodshed, and killings each other. hatred will produce hatred never peace nor love..., only love can heal the wounds and share forgiveness amongst nations... hopefully the ideology of hatred will not spread and ends here... hopefully love will win and conquer we are suffered enough bcs of hatred... May God forgive us.. -- Salam Revolusi IT Indonesia Alpha Bagus Sunggono http://bagusalfa.blogspot.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Reading only, http://dear.to/ppi 4. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[ppiindia] dear mods
Dear mods, since my email acct of prudential.co.id is non-active, pls send all emails from ppiindia to this email acct. Many thanks Carla Annamarie - Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Reading only, http://dear.to/ppi 4. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [ppiindia] No safety guarantee from TNI for jihad force in Mideast
Mba Aris komen mba malah bikin double bingung... btw mba gak ikutan ke lebanon...? bareng pasukan jihad dr indo, maksud saya gak usah sampe bom bunuh diri gitu, tp jadi sukarelawan medisnya, banyak rakyat lebanon yang tidak berdosa, yang luka2 n butuh pertolongan medis cheers Carla aris solikhah [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mas Rio, Kadang lontaran Anda itu mengejutkan dan membingungkan bagi saya. apa karena mas itu jarang berkomentar ya. --- Satrio Arismunandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Siapa tahu bisa buat bargaining oleh TNI? Ngapain repot-repot dan capek menghalangi laskar jihad, jika suku cadang pesawat-pesawat tempur TNI yang sudah dibayar lunas masih ditahan di Amerika. Secara strategis, kehadiran pejuang jihad ini juga tak akan punya banyak arti di medan konflik Lebanon, karena tak bawa senjata apa-apa, kecuali mungkin cuma sekadar golok dan ilmu kebalhe..he.. (Amerika dan Israel pun tahu soal ini) Kalau pun mereka semua mati di sana, juga tak ada masalah buat Indonesia, karena Pemerintah sudah pusing dengan jutaan pengangguran dan problem ekonomi --- Ambon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: REFLECTION: Yang paling penting untuk dicatat oleh dunia ialah bukan keselematan jihad, karena mereka nekad untuk mati syahid, tetapi keberangkatan dan operasi kesatuan jihad tidak mendapat rintangan dari TNI. http://www.antara.co.id/en/seenws/?id=17825 No safety guarantee from TNI for jihad force in Mideast Jakarta (ANTARA News) - The Indonesian Defence Forces (TNI) would not guarantee the safety of civilians grouped in a jihad force who planned to go to Lebanon and Palestine to wage a holy war against Israel, because they would not be on a state mission, a high ranking officer said. I don`t guarantee their safety, because they are not part of the TNI, Air Chief Marshal Djoko Suyanto, commander of TNI, said after receiving a Yudha Dharma Bakti Utama medal here on Monday. He said that the dispatch of civilians, lashkar jihad and members of non-governmental organizations to Lebanon has nothing to do with the duties of the state and the military (TNI). So, I don`t want to talk about matters which have nothing to do with the TNI, which is not responsible for the sending of civilians on such missions, Djoko added. The Indonesian government however does not forbid its citizens to go to the Middle East to help the struggle of the Palestinian and Lebanese people, because leaving the country is every citizen`s rights, but the government did not suggest such activity. It is the right of any citizen to leave Indonesia and return to home. But of course there are certain limitations namely that those leaving the country must have good intensions, Desra Percaya, spokesman of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, said. He said the ministry had learnt that groups of Indonesians planned to go to the Middle East to help the Palestinian and Lebanese people fight the Israeli aggressors. The government shared their feeling. They are disappointed with what was happening there, he added. Requests for visas to the region from the relevant foreign embassies here had not increased, and the foreign office did not have data on those planning to go to the Mideast. Volunteers from many parts of Indonesia expressed their readiness to go to Palestine and Lebanon. So far, around 72 members of the Jihad Bomb Force had already been sent to the Mideast with funding provided by a Malaysian businessman. (*) COPYRIGHT © 2006 ANTARA [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia *** __ Mohon Perhatian: 1. Harap tdk. memposting/reply yg menyinggung SARA (kecuali sbg otokritik) 2. Pesan yg akan direply harap dihapus, kecuali yg akan dikomentari. 3. Reading only, http://dear.to/ppi 4. Satu email perhari: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5. No-email/web only: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6. kembali menerima email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com *** Berdikusi dg Santun Elegan, dg Semangat Persahabatan. Menuju Indonesia yg Lebih Baik, in Commonality Shared Destiny. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ppiindia
