Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam/Simple One dropout question

[Philip Williamson]

Two chainrings is way slicker. Better chainline in each gear, more gear 
difference per rear tooth change, and two gears with a clean fender line in 
each. The only reason I have a single ring on the Quickbeam is because I 
put an older, prettier Shimano 600 crank on it, and it sits too close to 
the frame for a second ring. 

The Ross has a 51" - 70" range, and the axle doesn't move at all. 
http://www.biketinker.com/2012/fine-bikes/state-of-the-bikes-3-11-12/

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Monday, November 25, 2013 3:16:38 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> That's the way to go, then -- thanks. I could use a 17/21 instead of the 
> current 17/20, and have a 22 or so for a real bail out.
>
> I've thought of two rings, but frankly prefer the simplicity and hassle of 
> accommodating 3+ teeth in the back.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Philip Williamson 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> I get an easy 4 teeth difference, and I'm pretty sure I could get 8. 
>> Let's see - currently I have a 44t single ring, a 15t fixed cog, and a 
>> Dingle 17-21, and they all work fine with 37mm tires. Significantly fatter 
>> tires keeps the 44/21 from working. 
>>
>> So: Six teeth for sure, with 37mm tires. 
>>
>> Philip
>> www.biketinker.com
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:43:47 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks -- what about with a single ring: how many cogs can you get out 
>>> of the QB/SO dropout when all is optimized?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Cyclofiend Jim >> > wrote:
>>>
 Didn't realize the Dingle required a 9 sp chain. 

 My stock gearing setup is the 40/32 front chainring setup with a 14T 
 fixed and 18T FW.  The 40x14 (centered) and 40x18 fit easily.  The 32x18 
 is 
 at the end of the dropout with that chain length.

 Hope that helps,

 - Jim


 On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:38:41 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:

> The Converted (Campy) Curt Custom ('03) has long 1010s, but given my 
> peculiar choice of ring and cog, any ~70" cruising gear puts the axle in 
> the middle of the dropout, but too close to the end to accommodate 
> another 
> full chain link. This means that the dropout cannot accommodate a larger 
> cog that is 3 t bigger -- the axle is halfway out of the dropout with 
> such 
> a cog.
>
> A half link would work if I were not using a Dingle, which requires a 
> 9 speed chain -- they don't make 9 speed chain half links (I asked Surly 
> and half link makers).
>
> So, I am thinking of modifying, once again, the dropouts. Perhaps 
> track ends?
>
> And this is the question: if optimally placed, how great a tooth 
> difference can the track ends on the QB and SO accept? Or, are these 
> track 
> ends longer than Campy 1010s?
>
> Can a SO or QB accommodate a 4 t difference?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Patrick "no confusion, please, I've been quite clear" Moore
>
> -- 
> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
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[RBW] Caveman ketchup

[Norman Bone]

The horse is dead. For the love of Henry J. Heinz, take this offline!

For Deacon Patrick ,

-Norm 'old stick in the ketchup' Bone




 From: Chris Halasz 
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup
 

Patrick, 

If it hasn't been mentioned already, Westbrae vegetarian unsweetened ketchup. 

We usually find it at Whole Foods. 

Very nice; we like it more than any sweetened. 

Please let us know what you think. 

Cheers, 

Chris 


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[RBW] Re: Birthday Ride Report

[hsmitham]

Addison,

Happy Birthday great way to celebrate. Beautiful country one of these days 
I'll do some riding out that way.

IMHO I have to disagree with the notion that the carbon set & full 
suspension set are the niches...at least in these parts SoCal it feels 
different. The Carbon set are the vast majority in the middle along with 
the MTB bombers and the All-rounders are the minority out in the 
hinterlands. But that's just my perspective YMMV. Thanks for sharing a 
great idea riding on one's Bday.

~Hugh

On Monday, November 25, 2013 5:29:17 AM UTC-8, Addison wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Saturday was my bday and I went out for a pretty decent ride to celebrate. 
> Ok, I didn't ride my Riv AR but thought others might still enjoy the pics 
> of the sometimes rugged high desert terrain in these parts.  Enjoy:
>
>
> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2013/11/birthday-rough-stuff-ride-report.html
>
> If you are curious, the bikes we were riding were my Gunnar Crosshairs, 
> and my friends were on their Kelly Cross and Fargo.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Addison Wilhite
> Educator - The Academy of Arts, Careers & Technology, Reno, Nevada (
> http://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/
> )
> Blogger - Reno Rambler 
> (http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com
> )
> Bicycle Advocate - Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian 
> Advisory Committee (
> http://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html
> )
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Chris Halasz]

Patrick, 

If it hasn't been mentioned already, Westbrae vegetarian unsweetened ketchup. 

We usually find it at Whole Foods. 

Very nice; we like it more than any sweetened. 

Please let us know what you think. 

Cheers, 

Chris 

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[RBW] Re: mechanical issues

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

I used beeswax on the chain ring bolts.

On Sunday, November 24, 2013 4:07:51 PM UTC+2, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
>
> 2 annoying mechanical issues on my Sam Hillborne:
>  
>
>1. Creaking - sometimes more, sometimes less, but dramatic enough to 
>be easily heard by someone riding next to me. Tried so far - tightening 
>chain ring bolts; cleaning, oiling and finaly replacing the chain; playing 
>with FD trim until cross-eyed, check BB for play. Next steps - replace 
>pedals, replace BB even though no play, ...? 
>2. Rear shifting - indexed bar end shifter was skipping my favorite 
>cog (15T), so yesterday I replaced the cassette, thinking I had waited too 
>long to replaced the chain a few weeks ago. Now it's skipping all over in 
>indexed mode, both up and down. Tightening the cable (also recently 
>replaced) didn't help either so I switched to friction, which is of course 
>fine. I have nothing against friction, but I don't like it when things 
>don't work. In this case I'm commuting in traffic with a 40-26 in front, 
> so 
>for this terrain it's essentially a 1X9 and I want indexing. 
>
> I don't have access to a Rivish LBS anymore, and no one I know around 
> here has ever seen a bar end shifters. So it's just you guys.
>  
> Thanks,
> Jay 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam/Simple One dropout question

[iamkeith]

The White Industries double freewheels use 8-speed chains, which opens up the 
half-link option, in case it doesn't work otherwise.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Light camping stove options

[Christopher Chen]

That's poetry right there.
Of course I've seen you in a hot-dog costume


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Manuel Acosta  wrote:

> For an quick overnighter.
> I bring me a burrito
>
> On Friday, August 23, 2013 4:47:01 PM UTC-7, richd...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> With all the camping talk I wanted to share that I'm impressed with the
>> Vargo hexagon wood stove.  Mine is TI but stainless is a great option as
>> well. I really like that you can use it as an esbit stove, drop an alcohol
>> burner in there and use twigs as well.  It is light and packs small and
>> light. There are many out there like this if you search for light wood
>> burning stoves.  I also use it in my coffee  kit for longer rides where I
>> plan to take a break. Coffee prep is an entire new thread, but ill share
>> that the via style makes it tough to mess with much else imo. In Iowa many
>> rides or camping spots have a lot of dead wood around to use, or pack your
>> own. No need to buy fuel of any type.  I'm sure it is not ideal for all,
>> but nice for many.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Hugh Smitham]

+1 on the recipe.

Best,

~Hugh


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:04 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> I'd love the recipe too, Eric.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:16:06 AM UTC-7, EGNolan wrote:
>
>> Patrick M- I'll get you the recipe once I've consulted my dear wife. I
>> use "we" a lot, when I should probably just say "my lovely wife." We
>> usually substitute our own tomatoes for canned, take out the added sugar,
>> but may use a paste. I'll get details for ya.
>>
>> Patrick of the Deacon sort- I agree ADDING sugar to ketchup or chocolate
>> isn't necessary.Where I think we differ is that I don't worry about taking
>> the sugar out of my tomatoes for ketchup or taking it out of my
>> strawberries for jam. You can have unsweetened ketchup that still contains
>> some of the natural sugar from the tomatoes.
>>
>> All this talk has made me hungry, I think I'm gonna go eat my lunch now;
>> scrambled eggs w/ roasted peppers & onions on a bed of rice. No sugar
>> added, but I didn't fish any out either...
>>
>> Best,
>> Eric
>> Indpls
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Hugh Smitham]

Anne,

Probably no reason to reply as others have made many good points...but just
to speak for my self.

As I'm sure you are aware refined sugar is ubiquitous and IMHO poison to
our bodies.  If I used your chocolate metaphor I'd be removing the tomatoes
from the Ketchup? That's not what I want, I want refined sugar removed or
just never added.  The problem is as a society are palates are so
accustomed to sugar that it takes a while to adjust to the flavors with out
sugar. But the main reason I don't want to consume refined sugars are
here
 in this article which I find intriguing.

The evidence may be inconclusive however I choose to reduce or eliminate as
much refined sugar from my diet because the evidence is piling up which
scares me.

The Ketchup I spoke of has sugar added and though it's a small amount I
wish it didn't. As Eric has said tomatoes and fruit have natural sugars so
my preference would be to have any processed foods I eat to have as little
to no added refined sugars.

The chocolate I consume has in a (25g) serving sugar (lactose)2g, sugar
alcohols (9g)  net impact carbs 2g and it taste sweet and luscious.

I hope this answers you question.

Best,

~Hugh


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:10 AM, Anne Paulson wrote:

> I'm trying to understand what you want in the flavor here, Hugh. I can
> understand trying to avoid high fructose corn syrup, and I also can
> understand dialing down the sugar somewhat,  but isn't trying to have
> unsweetened ketchup like having a chocolate bar without chocolate?
> Ketchup is a fruit butter, so it's flavored with sugar (and a lot of
> it) and vinegar (and a lot of it) to make it sweet and sour. If you
> take out the sugar, you have sour. Sour is good, but in what way would
> it be like ketchup?
>
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM, hsmitham  wrote:
> > Patrick,
> >
> > Don't know if you have Trader Joe's out there but they sell an organic
> > ketchup that has 2 grams of sugar per table spoon like Deacon I'd like
> none.
>
> --
> -- Anne Paulson
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride.
>
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Re: [RBW] New (to me) Bombadil build

[Jim Bronson]

I'm impressed with the back wall in your shop.  Impressively organized.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 2:20 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J <
thomas.alling...@skadden.com> wrote:

>  So a number of folks on this list (including me) were apparently looking
> at this blue-green Bombadil frame/fork on the ‘bay a few weeks ago, and I
> had the least self-control of all of that sub-group, so I ended up with a
> nice-looking Bombadil frame (a little rough paint, but otherwise sound) and
> no particular plan what to do with it, except I was going to try to do a
> Tapebubba build – entirely from parts on hand.  Finished last night, and
> was going to ride it this morning and take some pics, but it was under 20
> degrees here at 5:30, and that’s too cold for recreational rides for me.
> So here’s a pic of the finished build in my shop:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/11052561793/  I’ll post some in
> the wild as soon as the temp rises (or I get a pair of big boy pants to
> ride in!).
>
>
>
> Really, the idea for this was stolen from another Bomba owner, pic here:
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/beardedpeter/3870914885/in/pool-bombadil/one of 
> the coolest Bombadil builds ever.
>
>
>
> Build list:
>
> Wheelset (stolen from another bike):  Ghisallo beechwood rims, Campy front
> (drilled and modified by Peter Weigle), White Industries ENO eccentric on
> the rear.
>
> Cream Grand Bois Hetres
>
> 17/19 White Industries DOS ENO freewheel (17t fixed cog on flip side)
>
> Shimano BB (needed 127mm to get the narrow Q crankset on the correct
> chainline)
>
> Stronglight 49 crankset
>
> Bespoke Chainrings 44t Solida Cats replica chainring
>
> Phil Wood CHP pedals, with VO leather covered toeclips and Christophe
> straps
>
> Nitto Lugged seatpost
>
> Brooks Select B-17
>
> Nitto 200mm reach Bullmoose bars/stem
>
> Brooks grips
>
> Paul Canti levers
>
> Bruce Gordon polished “Pointy” canti brakes
>
> Cork brake pads to preserve the rims, and introduce a sense of adventure
> to the “speed modulation” process
>
> Nitto Mini-Front rack
>
> Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Lil’ Loafer
>
> Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Country Bag
>
>
>
> Still thinking about whether to install an old Dur-Alum chainring and/or
> fenders (I have an old set of VO Zeppelin fenders, painted roughly the same
> color as the tires).  Anybody have a view?
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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[RBW] FS: Quickbeam 64 cm Silver

[Abcyclehank]

Asking Price?

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[RBW] WTB (or trade for) Albastache bars

[rw1911]

I'd like to try the Albastache bars and thought I would look for used here 
first.  If interested, I also have either original Moustache or aluminum 
Albatross 
bars to offer in trade.

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[RBW] Re: Light camping stove options

[Manuel Acosta]

For an quick overnighter.
I bring me a burrito

On Friday, August 23, 2013 4:47:01 PM UTC-7, richd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> With all the camping talk I wanted to share that I'm impressed with the 
> Vargo hexagon wood stove.  Mine is TI but stainless is a great option as 
> well. I really like that you can use it as an esbit stove, drop an alcohol 
> burner in there and use twigs as well.  It is light and packs small and 
> light. There are many out there like this if you search for light wood 
> burning stoves.  I also use it in my coffee  kit for longer rides where I 
> plan to take a break. Coffee prep is an entire new thread, but ill share 
> that the via style makes it tough to mess with much else imo. In Iowa many 
> rides or camping spots have a lot of dead wood around to use, or pack your 
> own. No need to buy fuel of any type.  I'm sure it is not ideal for all, 
> but nice for many. 

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[RBW] Re: Light camping stove options

[KTY]

Via the Adventures in Stoving blog, I recently discovered this adjustable 
(heat) Esbit stove, which integrates with the Bobcat Cooking 
system: 
http://flatcatgear.com/zencart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=43


On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:47:01 PM UTC-4, richd...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> With all the camping talk I wanted to share that I'm impressed with the 
> Vargo hexagon wood stove.  Mine is TI but stainless is a great option as 
> well. I really like that you can use it as an esbit stove, drop an alcohol 
> burner in there and use twigs as well.  It is light and packs small and 
> light. There are many out there like this if you search for light wood 
> burning stoves.  I also use it in my coffee  kit for longer rides where I 
> plan to take a break. Coffee prep is an entire new thread, but ill share 
> that the via style makes it tough to mess with much else imo. In Iowa many 
> rides or camping spots have a lot of dead wood around to use, or pack your 
> own. No need to buy fuel of any type.  I'm sure it is not ideal for all, 
> but nice for many. 

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[RBW] Re: You Know You're Addicted to Rivendell When . . .

[Tom Virgil]

I stood up in a company offsite, and spoke up to unracer, S24O, and "Just 
Ride" in the (cough) "Executive Stamina" session.  None of them, my 
original ideas and I acknowledged sources.  The messages were well 
received.  Thank you Grant and Rivsters.

Best Regards,

Tom

On Saturday, November 23, 2013 3:08:38 PM UTC-8, Evan wrote:
>
> You stay up until 1am, on a weeknight, to read every single word of the 
> catalogue.
>

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Re: [RBW] Caveman ketchup

[Deacon Patrick]

Up until the advent of processed foods, most "condiments" were fermented 
veggies w/ spices -- and that's where they got their zest from. Vinegar is 
the lazy, production line friendly way to get something sort of similar, 
but you lose a lot of the health benefits of fermented foods (gut flora 
high, for example). Of course fermenting ain't so easy. We've tried a few 
times and gotten naught but stink. Sardonic grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:03:48 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> Y'know, if you're looking for a tomato-based sauce with onions, 
> garlic, and a souring agent like vinegar, but no sugar, a sauce tastes 
> good with fried foods, you might want to pass the ketchup aisle and 
> head straight for the salsas. That's what a salsa is: tomato, usually 
> onions, garlic and some spices, and a souring agent (though it's more 
> typically lime juice than vinegar). 
>
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Patrick Moore 
> > 
> wrote: 
> > Not too off topic, I hope, given all the "paelo" stuff. 
> > 
> > Can anyone recommend a ketchup that is not hugely over-sweetened like 
> > Heinz's typical, with all its corn syrup? I don't care about the carbs, 
> I 
> > just very much dislike the way the sugar masks the flavor. 
> > 
> > I've found Westbrae here: 
> > 
> > http://www6.netrition.com/westbrae_veggie_ketchup.html
> >  
> > 
> > at a reasonable price (not paying $7.50 for Dean and DeLuca), but how 
> does 
> > it *taste*? 
> > 
> > Or can someone take me to a reliable (and personally tested, if 
> recommended) 
> > recipe? 
> > 
> > Thanks. 
> > 
> > (And what wine goes best with ketchup?) 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED! 
> > Certified Resume Writer 
> > http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> >  
> > patric...@resumespecialties.com  
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
> >  
> > 
> > Albuquerque, NM 
> > 
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> -- Anne Paulson 
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Atlantis (51cm and 58cm) and VO Campeur in Montreal

[dougP]

To me, that $1 thing is weird & I"d guess puts more people off than get 
excited.  He's kinda-sorta-almost hinting at a value based on the other 
Atlantis and the price on VO, which of course he muddies up with optional 
changes.  Ultimately the market will give him an answer.

dougP

On Monday, November 25, 2013 5:11:03 PM UTC-8, Peter M wrote:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-ball
>  
> Just sayin, this term is used wrong all the time, really annoying when 
> sellers put it in an ad. 
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 11:56 PM, dougP >wrote:
>
>> He'll become another one posting "wish I'd NEVER sold my Atlantis!..."
>>
>> dougP
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:35:34 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> What, what, what! 
>>>
>>> That's sacrilege according to my world-view! 
>>>
>>> On 11/24/13, Bill Lindsay  wrote: 
>>> > He said he's either keeping the 58 'tlantis or the VO Campeur, 
>>> whichever 
>>> > one doesn't sell. 
>>> > 
>>> > On Sunday, November 24, 2013 4:13:08 PM UTC-8, dougP wrote: 
>>> >> 
>>> >> Some lucky couple could have one seriously Merry Christmas.  Kinda 
>>> makes 
>>> >> you wonder what he's hanging onto? 
>>> >> 
>>> >> dougP 
>>> >> 
>>> >> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 8:06:22 AM UTC-8, Eugene wrote: 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Hi All, 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> A dear friend has a few nice bikes up for sale in Montreal. They are 
>>> all 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> in superb condition. I can help facilitate to Toronto. 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4164897917.html
>>> >> ca%2Fbik%2F4164897917.html&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=
>>> AFQjCNF3Vi8YziDUiMRgrk2uu0koZgCAzw> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4197239757.html
>>> >> ca%2Fbik%2F4197239757.html&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=
>>> AFQjCNEQmMNfJ5Vwp9NMvf7p8jSgkfMT1g> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4198826935.html
>>> >> ca%2Fbik%2F4198826935.html&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEwTZytBwz_
>>> 8qyW5fn0MdeBCkmlJQ> 
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> All the best, 
>>> >>> Eugene 
>>> >>> 
>>> >> 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
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>>> > 
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Cheers, 
>>> David 
>>>
>>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal 
>>>
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>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously Interested

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2013 09:11 PM, Alex Zeibot wrote:
I propose smaller sizes, let's say 54-58 are 650b specific and bigger 
sizes confined to 700c.

Alex



Why?

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Re: [RBW] Caveman ketchup

[Anne Paulson]

Y'know, if you're looking for a tomato-based sauce with onions,
garlic, and a souring agent like vinegar, but no sugar, a sauce tastes
good with fried foods, you might want to pass the ketchup aisle and
head straight for the salsas. That's what a salsa is: tomato, usually
onions, garlic and some spices, and a souring agent (though it's more
typically lime juice than vinegar).

On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
> Not too off topic, I hope, given all the "paelo" stuff.
>
> Can anyone recommend a ketchup that is not hugely over-sweetened like
> Heinz's typical, with all its corn syrup? I don't care about the carbs, I
> just very much dislike the way the sugar masks the flavor.
>
> I've found Westbrae here:
>
> http://www6.netrition.com/westbrae_veggie_ketchup.html
>
> at a reasonable price (not paying $7.50 for Dean and DeLuca), but how does
> it *taste*?
>
> Or can someone take me to a reliable (and personally tested, if recommended)
> recipe?
>
> Thanks.
>
> (And what wine goes best with ketchup?)
>
>
> --
> RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!
> Certified Resume Writer
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> patrickmo...@resumespecialties.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>
> Albuquerque, NM
>
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[RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[BSWP]

Sounds like the deal is on - anyone who has cried and moaned about wanting 
a QB/SO can now put their name down for a SimpleBeam/QuickOne, and they'll 
get a unique frame, better/different than the old ones. I'm really happy 
with my 66cm QB - strong, light, rackable, cantilevered - and glad to hear 
that RBW is open to bringing it back, in slightly updated guise. Short of 
some NOS falling out of the attic, this is the way for new frames to find 
new homes.

- Andrew, Berkeley

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously Interested

[Alex Zeibot]

I propose smaller sizes, let's say 54-58 are 650b specific and bigger sizes
confined to 700c.
Alex


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:17 AM, Cyclofiend Jim
wrote:

> In a separate thread, I seem to have been volunteered to collect names of
> those seriously interested in a next generation SimpleOne / Quickbeam.
>
> The thread can be found here:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QhzO4CFyz1U
>
> Please take a moment to read it all the way through.  Thanks!
>
> Ok... Welcome back!
>
> here's what Grant posted:
>
> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:53:57 PM UTC-8, grant wrote:
>>
>> Nothing's ever for sure gone for good, but here's the thing with the
>> SimpleBeams (forgive the gross generalizations used to make the point
>> without accounting for exceptions. I will use "everybody" not in the
>> literal sense):
>>
>> Everybody moans the loss of a bike they didn't buy when it was availabe.
>> The SB was always the slowest seller of all time, which in itself isn't the
>> end of the world, but what it means for us is---it was a cash flow killer.
>> We pay fully for 100 of them about two months before they arrive. Then it
>> takes a year and a half or two years to sell them.
>> One thing that seems to happen is--when something's readily available,
>> it's meh...and when it's gone, the heart grows fonder genuinely--and maybe
>> people who would have been buyers when the bike was around have just
>> learned about it and think hey I'd like that. But there is a small tendency
>> to overenthuse about what can't be had. I do it myself with other things in
>> my life.
>> *Dang, they quit making that __ I've hemmed and hawed about and
>> admired for years, but never wanted enough to buy, but now that I can't buy
>> it, shoot!*I don't mean that's rampant here, and I DO like that the
>> bikes are so well-liked. Me too. I sold my QB when I needed money, figured
>> I could always get a SO, and now they're gone and I want one more than
>> ever. So---I'm not just an observer of this phenomenon, but a participant!
>> If we could pre-sell 30 of them. Paid two-months before they arrive
>> (that's when our payment is due), I'd stick my neck out and order 100. This
>> time they'd be slightly different, and the danger of this hypothetical
>> scenario is that it would open a debate about what's the difference between
>> the new and old, which is preferable, then a vote, and it all gets weird
>> and half the people who expressed willingness to get a new one now feel
>> dis-listened to and bummed because it didn't go that way.
>> So...i'd be innerested only if I had free secret rein to tweak it
>> this way and that, still resulting in a killer one-speed, but not a clone
>> of the SO, which was a clone of the QB. It might be any color, any name,
>> any kind of break, any anything. I totally get that ordering semi-blind
>> isn't easy to do. The unblind part of the semi is: Track or horizontal
>> dropouts angled to allow pad contact over a wide range of chainlengths,
>> like QB/SO. Two bottle mounts, rackable. good clearance. Basically Sam-like
>> with diff dropouts. Probably sidepulls but could be cantis. A perfectly
>> good color, a good name, a nice badge, a really great singler.
>>
>> Serious agreers will PM cyclofiend (Jim! So sorryplease forgive
>> me...but these  months I have so many kaleidiscopes in my head that I can't
>> have another one), and if the list reaches 30 (meaning you'll have $1200
>> by Dec 2014 for the frame/fork/headset, and the money won't evaporate in a
>> divorce or unforseeable crisis), then we'll get some good frames.
>>
>> I have a full plate and I know it seems so bad to say I can't answer
>> questions about this, but for the next few months I probably can't. You can
>> try, and I'll try, but I'm at my  physicalemotional limit, and ... can't
>> promise. If you send a postcard, I'll respond with a postcard.
>>
>> Is this all too much? Probably. Sorry again.
>>
>> If nothing happens now, I think the bike will happen again later, but it
>> may be an extra year or two.
>>
>> I know there are lots of options out there. I'm not trying to make this a
>> difficult mystery bike. My crazy proposal..is the only way that makes
>> sense for us right now.
>>
>> Thanks..
>>
>> Grant
>>
>
>
> So - what happens next?
>
> I'll compile a list of takers/wanters/those-who-will-in-fact-pony-up.
>
> IF YOU ARE INTERESTED AND CAN COMMIT IN THE MANNER GRANT PROPOSED -
>
> Please do this:
>
> Email: cyclofi...@gmail.com
>
> Use a Subject Line: SimpleBeam Order
>
> Include your name, email and a simple statement of desire to be in the
> queue. State frame size, quantity.
>
> DO NOT GIVE any payment information - I cannot  be responsible for your
> payment security (and you should never, ever put that in an email anyway...)
>
> Please note - I do not work for Rivendell Bicycle Works.  I am wrangling
> this just to keep one iron in a separate fire for GP.  I'll keep you up to
> date, and will advise Grant

[RBW] Why the "Re:" posts?

[Michael]

Wondering why and how they are done. Why not post to the original thread?
Seem to make the topics confusing by splitting the same thread.
I thought I posted this earlier, but either it didn't get through, or it 
got deleted by moderater.
 
Moderater, please email me to let me know an answer (or post here) as I am 
legitimately curious about it and wonder why Re: posts are done. Thanks.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously Interested

[Michael]

>
> 6 degree sloping top tube?
>
>  
I'd prefer 2 degrees at most. 
Because, to me, those single speeds look so dapper with a triangle frame 
like the QB and SO bikes.
But he already said anything goes and no guarantees.
However, I am sure that it will be *the* finest lugged steel single speed 
on the planet though no matter what the features are.

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Re: [RBW] mechanical issues

[jimD]

Which causes me to wonder, is there grease in ketchup?

-JimD (more confused than ever.)


On Nov 25, 2013, at 3:26 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> This is a "holy war" subject that goes back generations. IIRC, the mighty 
> Jobst (pause reverentially. Moment of silence. Mblmblmblmbl. Amen) urges us 
> to grease. Phil, too, IIRC. At any rate, I've dutifully greased for decades 
> and never had a crank arm come loose or otherwise go astray.
> 
> Here is the holy write (mediated by Sheldon!):
> 
> http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html
> 
> 
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Perry  wrote:
> Grease everything. Then grease it again. Only this time, put your heart into 
> it because you didn't use enough the first time. That's my philosophy, and 
> dang! It works for me the same way Paleo works for Patrick. ;)
> 
> Then there's this:
> 
> To grease or not to grease? | Off The Beaten Path
> "So for our René Herse cranks, we recommend that you lightly grease the crank 
> spindle. Also grease the treads of the bolts. Then tighten the bolts to 25 
> Nm. That is it. If you like, you can check after your first ride that the 
> bolts are tight. Thereafter, leave them alone."
> 
> http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/to-grease-or-not-to-grease/
> 
> • Perry
> 
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Re: [RBW] Recommendations for a front derailer on a compact double?

[Bruce Herbitter]

I've had thousand of trouble free miles on a Shimano 105. My compact is
50/34


On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 11:25 PM, Mike On A Bike wrote:

> I just set up my Sam with a 48/34 White Industries crankset and I need a
> new derailer for this drivetrain setup. It was probably just my mechanical
> ineptitude, but I couldn't get my Campy "Mirage" derailer (that I had for a
> triple) to work with it. I've not been thrilled with the Mirage anyhow, so
> I want to get a new derailer that is ideal for a double.
>
> I am thinking Shimano XT would be the best bet, but there are so many
> models, I don't know which to pick (or if there is something better at a
> similar price). Can any of you running double cranksets recommend a good
> choice for me?
>
> Many thanks!
>
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Re: [RBW] mechanical issues

[Bruce Herbitter]

saddle tension bolt if a leather saddle, or saddle rails creaking in the
seat post clamp?


On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 8:42 AM, Curtis McKenzie  wrote:

>
> Chain length?
> On Sunday, November 24, 2013, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
>
>> 2 annoying mechanical issues on my Sam Hillborne:
>>
>>
>>1. Creaking - sometimes more, sometimes less, but dramatic enough to
>>be easily heard by someone riding next to me. Tried so far - tightening
>>chain ring bolts; cleaning, oiling and finaly replacing the chain; playing
>>with FD trim until cross-eyed, check BB for play. Next steps - replace
>>pedals, replace BB even though no play, ...?
>>2. Rear shifting - indexed bar end shifter was skipping my favorite
>>cog (15T), so yesterday I replaced the cassette, thinking I had waited too
>>long to replaced the chain a few weeks ago. Now it's skipping all over in
>>indexed mode, both up and down. Tightening the cable (also recently
>>replaced) didn't help either so I switched to friction, which is of course
>>fine. I have nothing against friction, but I don't like it when things
>>don't work. In this case I'm commuting in traffic with a 40-26 in front, 
>> so
>>for this terrain it's essentially a 1X9 and I want indexing.
>>
>> I don't have access to a Rivish LBS anymore, and no one I know around
>> here has ever seen a bar end shifters. So it's just you guys.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jay
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Atlantis (51cm and 58cm) and VO Campeur in Montreal

[Peter Morgano]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-ball

Just sayin, this term is used wrong all the time, really annoying when
sellers put it in an ad.


On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 11:56 PM, dougP  wrote:

> He'll become another one posting "wish I'd NEVER sold my Atlantis!..."
>
> dougP
>
>
> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 7:35:34 PM UTC-8, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> What, what, what!
>>
>> That's sacrilege according to my world-view!
>>
>> On 11/24/13, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>> > He said he's either keeping the 58 'tlantis or the VO Campeur,
>> whichever
>> > one doesn't sell.
>> >
>> > On Sunday, November 24, 2013 4:13:08 PM UTC-8, dougP wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Some lucky couple could have one seriously Merry Christmas.  Kinda
>> makes
>> >> you wonder what he's hanging onto?
>> >>
>> >> dougP
>> >>
>> >> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 8:06:22 AM UTC-8, Eugene wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi All,
>> >>>
>> >>> A dear friend has a few nice bikes up for sale in Montreal. They are
>> all
>> >>>
>> >>> in superb condition. I can help facilitate to Toronto.
>> >>>
>> >>> http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4164897917.html
>> > ca%2Fbik%2F4164897917.html&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNF3Vi8YziDUiMRgrk2uu0koZg
>> CAzw>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4197239757.html
>> > ca%2Fbik%2F4197239757.html&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEQmMNfJ5Vwp9NMvf7p8jSgkf
>> MT1g>
>> >>>
>> >>> http://montreal.en.craigslist.ca/bik/4198826935.html
>> > ca%2Fbik%2F4198826935.html&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNEwTZytBwz_
>> 8qyW5fn0MdeBCkmlJQ>
>> >>>
>> >>> All the best,
>> >>> Eugene
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
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>> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> David
>>
>> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously Interested

[James Warren]

"Sam like" - expanded geometry and not as many sizes offered. That's my guess.On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:03:26 AM UTC-8, Bob Cook wrote:Kind of you to "volunteer." ;-)Would you, Jim, or any others out there have a sense whether "Sam-like" could mean 135 rear spacing? I ask because I learned the way of single-speed after the SOs were gone.  I have a Cross Check with a wheel set I like very much (Paul hubs, White Industries DOS ENO freewheel). The rear hub is 135 OLD. CC is a fine frame, but I want lugs, longer chain stays, kickstand plate, etc.Thanks,BobOn Monday, November 25, 2013 10:17:03 AM UTC-6, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:In a separate thread, I seem to have been volunteered to collect names of those seriously interested in a next generation SimpleOne / Quickbeam.The thread can be found here:https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QhzO4CFyz1UPlease take a moment to read it all the way through.  Thanks!Ok... Welcome back!here's what Grant posted:On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:53:57 PM UTC-8, grant wrote:Nothing's
 ever for sure gone for good, but here's the thing with the SimpleBeams 
(forgive the gross generalizations used to make the point without 
accounting for exceptions. I will use "everybody" not in the literal 
sense):Everybody moans the loss of a bike they didn't buy when 
it was availabe. The SB was always the slowest seller of all time, which
 in itself isn't the end of the world, but what it means for us is---it 
was a cash flow killer. We pay fully for 100 of them about two months 
before they arrive. Then it takes a year and a half or two years to sell
 them. One thing that seems to happen is--when something's readily 
available, it's meh...and when it's gone, the heart grows fonder 
genuinely--and maybe people who would have been buyers when the bike was
 around have just learned about it and think hey I'd like that. But 
there is a small tendency to overenthuse about what can't be had. I do 
it myself with other things in my life. Dang, they quit making that 
__ I've hemmed and hawed about and admired for years, but never 
wanted enough to buy, but now that I can't buy it, shoot!I don't
 mean that's rampant here, and I DO like that the bikes are so 
well-liked. Me too. I sold my QB when I needed money, figured I could 
always get a SO, and now they're gone and I want one more than ever. 
So---I'm not just an observer of this phenomenon, but a participant!If
 we could pre-sell 30 of them. Paid two-months before they arrive 
(that's when our payment is due), I'd stick my neck out and order 100. 
This time they'd be slightly different, and the danger of this 
hypothetical scenario is that it would open a debate about what's the 
difference between the new and old, which is preferable, then a vote, 
and it all gets weird and half the people who expressed willingness to 
get a new one now feel dis-listened to and bummed because it didn't go 
that way.So...i'd be innerested only if I had free secret rein 
to tweak it this way and that, still resulting in a killer one-speed, 
but not a clone of the SO, which was a clone of the QB. It might be any 
color, any name, any kind of break, any anything. I totally get that 
ordering semi-blind isn't easy to do. The unblind part of the semi is: 
Track or horizontal dropouts angled to allow pad contact over a wide 
range of chainlengths, like QB/SO. Two bottle mounts, rackable. good 
clearance. Basically Sam-like with diff dropouts. Probably sidepulls but
 could be cantis. A perfectly good color, a good name, a nice badge, a 
really great singler.Serious agreers will PM cyclofiend (Jim! So
 sorryplease forgive me...but these  months I have so many 
kaleidiscopes in my head that I can't have another one), and if the list
 reaches 30 (meaning you'll have $1200  by Dec 2014 for the 
frame/fork/headset, and the money won't evaporate in a divorce or 
unforseeable crisis), then we'll get some good frames.I have a 
full plate and I know it seems so bad to say I can't answer questions 
about this, but for the next few months I probably can't. You can try, 
and I'll try, but I'm at my  physicalemotional limit, and ... can't 
promise. If you send a postcard, I'll respond with a postcard.Is this all too much? Probably. Sorry again. If nothing happens now, I think the bike will happen again later, but it may be an extra year or two.I
 know there are lots of options out there. I'm not trying to make this a
 difficult mystery bike. My crazy proposal..is the only way that 
makes sense for us right now. Thanks..GrantSo - what happens next?I'll compile a list of takers/wanters/those-who-will-in-fact-pony-up.IF YOU ARE INTERESTED AND CAN COMMIT IN THE MANNER GRANT PROPOSED - Please do this:Email: cyclo...@gmail.comUse a Subject Line: SimpleBeam OrderInclude your name, email and a simple statement of desire to be in the queue. State frame size, quantity.  DO
 NOT GIVE any payment information - I cannot  be responsible for your 
payment securi

[RBW] Re: New (to me) Bombadil build

[sameness]

Excellent build. First time I've spied white tires on an adult's bike and 
smiled. It's the rim combo what makes it.

Jeff Hagedorn
Warragul, VIC Australia

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2013 06:34 PM, Patrick Moore wrote:

(Quietly tip-toe-ing out of the room, appalled by what he has spawned ...)

Patrick "aka Lizzie Borden aka Dorothy L Sayers" Moore, who wants to 
see the Fed Specs for potatoes (and who does, really, want to see 
Eric's Wife's recipe).


You asked for it, buddy

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 21, Volume 2]
[Revised as of April 1, 2013]
[CITE: 21CFR155.200]




TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS

CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION

PART 155 -- CANNED VEGETABLES 
 



Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables

Sec. 155.200 Certain other canned vegetables.

(a) The canned vegetables for which definitions and standards of 
identity are prescribed by this section are those named in column I of 
the table set forth in paragraph (b) of this section. The vegetable 
ingredient in each such canned vegetable is obtained by proper 
preparation from the succulent vegetable prescribed in column II of such 
table. If two or more forms of such ingredient are designated in column 
III of such table, the vegetable in each such form is an optional 
ingredient. To the vegetable ingredient additional ingredients as 
required or permitted by paragraph (c) of this section are added, and 
the food is sealed in a container and so processed by heat as to prevent 
spoilage.


(b) The table referred to in paragraph (a) of this section is as follows:

I--Name or synonym of canned vegetable 	II--Source 	III--Optional forms 
of vegetable ingredient
Artichokes 	Flower buds of the artichoke plant 	Whole; half or halves or 
halved; whole hearts; halved hearts; quartered hearts.

Asparagus   Edible portions of sprouts of the asparagus plant, as follows:  

3 and 3/4 in or more of upper end   Stalks or spears.

3 and 3/4 in or more of peeled upper endPeeled stalks or peeled 
spears.

Not less than 2 and 3/4 in but less than 3 and 3/4 in of upper end  
Tips.

Less than 2 and 3/4 in of upper end Points.

Sprouts cut in pieces   Cut stalks or cut spears.

	Sprouts from which the tip has been removed, cut in pieces 	Bottom cuts 
or cuts--tips removed.

Bean sproutsSprouts of the Mung bean
Shelled beans 	Seed shelled from green or wax bean pods, with or without 
snaps (pieces of immature unshelled pods) 	
Lima beans or butter beans 	Seed shelled from the pods of the lima bean 
plant 	
Beets 	Root of the beet plant 	Whole; slices or sliced; quarters or 
quartered; dice or diced; cut; shoestring or French style or julienne.

Beet greens Leaves, or leaves and immature root, of the beet plant  
BroccoliHeads of the broccoli plant 
Brussels sproutsSprouts of the brussels sprouts plant   
Cabbage Cut pieces of the heads of the cabbage plant
Carrots Root of the carrot plantDo.
Cauliflower Cut pieces of the head of the cauliflower plant 
Celery  Stalks of the celery plant  Cut; hearts.
CollardsLeaves of the collard plant 
Dandelion greensLeaves of the dandelion plant   
KaleLeaves of the kale plant
Mustard greens  Leaves of the mustard plant 
OkraPods of the okra plant  Whole; cut.
Onions  Bulb of the onion plant Do.
Parsnips 	Root of the parsnip plant 	Whole; quarters or quartered; 
slices or sliced; cut; shoestring or French style or julienne.
Black-eye peas or black-eyed peas 	Seed shelled from pods of the 
black-eye pea plant, with or without snaps (pieces of immature unshelled 
pods) 	
Field peas 	Seed shelled from pods of the field pea plant (other than 
the black-eye pea plant), with or without snaps (pieces of immature 
unshelled pods) 	
Green sweet peppers 	Green pods of the sweet pepper plant 	Whole; halves 
or halved; pieces; dice or diced; strips; chopped.

Red sweet peppers   Red-ripe pods of the sweet pepper plant Do.
Pimientos or pimentos 	Red-ripe pods of the pimiento, pimento, pepper 
plant 	Whole; halves or halved; pieces; dice or diced; slices or sliced; 
chopped.
Potatoes 	Tuber of the potato plant 	Whole; slices or sliced; dice or 
diced; pieces; shoestring or French style or julienne; French fry cut.
Rutabagas 	Root of the rutabaga plant 	Whole; quarters or quartered; 
slices or sliced; dice or diced; cut.

Salsify Root of the salsify plant   
Spinach 	Leaves of the spinach plant 	Whole leaf; cut leaf or sliced; 
chopped.
Sweet potatoes 	Tuber of the sweet potato plant 	Whole; mashed; pieces 
or cuts or cut (longitudinally cut halves may be named on labels as 
halves or halved in lieu of pieces or cuts or cut).

Swiss chard Leaves of the Swiss chard plant 
TrufflesFruit of the truffle
Turnip greens   Leaves of the turnip plant  
Turnips 	Root of the turnip pl

Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Patrick Moore]

(Quietly tip-toe-ing out of the room, appalled by what he has spawned ...)

Patrick "aka Lizzie Borden aka Dorothy L Sayers" Moore, who wants to see
the Fed Specs for potatoes (and who does, really, want to see Eric's Wife's
recipe).


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:40 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>  On 11/25/2013 12:30 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should
> like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a
> condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar,
> you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something
> delicious, but it's not ketchup.
>
>
> That is so not so.  There is in fact a federal standard of identity for
> ketchup, published in the Code of Federal Regulations, and here it is:
>
>   [Code of Federal Regulations]  [Title 21, Volume 2]  [Revised as of
> April 1, 2013]  [CITE: 21CFR155.194]
>
>
> TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS  CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
> DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES  SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR HUMAN
> CONSUMPTION
>
> PART 155 -- CANNED 
> VEGETABLES
>
> Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables
>   Sec. 155.194 Catsup.
>
> (a)*Identity* --(1)*Definition.* Catsup, ketchup, or catchup is the food
> prepared from one or any combination of two or more of the following
> optional tomato ingredients:
>
> (i) Tomato concentrate as defined in 155.191(a)(1), except that lemon
> juice, concentrated lemon juice, or safe and suitable organic acids may be
> used in quantities no greater than necessary to adjust the pH, and in
> compliance with 155.191(b).
>
> (ii) The liquid derived from mature tomatoes of the red or reddish
> varieties*Lycopersicum esculentum* P. Mill.
>
> (iii) The liquid obtained from the residue from preparing such tomatoes
> for canning, consisting of peelings and cores with or without such tomatoes
> or pieces thereof.
>
> (iv) The liquid obtained from the residue from partial extraction of juice
> from such tomatoes.
>
> Such liquid is strained so as to exclude skins, seeds, and other coarse or
> hard substances in accordance with current good manufacturing practice.
> Prior to straining, food-grade hydrochloric acid may be added to the tomato
> material in an amount to obtain a pH no lower than 2.0. Such acid is then
> neutralized with food-grade sodium hydroxide so that the treated tomato
> material is restored to a pH of 4.2+/-0.2. The final composition of the
> food may be adjusted by concentration and/or by the addition of water. The
> food may contain salt (sodium chloride formed during acid neutralization
> shall be considered added salt) and is seasoned with ingredients as
> specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this section. The food is preserved by
> heat sterilization (canning), refrigeration, or freezing. When sealed in a
> container to be held at ambient temperatures, it is so processed by heat,
> before or after sealing, as to prevent spoilage.
>
> (2)*Ingredients.* One or any combination of two or more of the following
> safe and suitable ingredients in each of the following categories is added
> to the tomato ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:
>
> (i) Vinegars.
>
> (ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in part
> 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.
>
> (iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.
>
> (3)*Labeling.* (i) The name of the food is "Catsup," "Ketchup," or
> "Catchup."
>
> (ii) The following shall be included as part of the name or in close
> proximity to the name of the food:
>
> (*a* ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may
> be, "residual tomato material from canning" if the optional tomato
> ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iii) of this section or tomato
> concentrate containing the ingredient specified in 155.191(a)(1)(ii) is
> present.
>
> (*b* ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may
> be, "residual tomato material from partial extraction of juice" if the
> optional tomato ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iv) of this
> section or tomato concentrate containing the ingredient specified in
> 155.191(a)(1)(iii) is present.
>
> (iii)*Label declaration.* Each of the ingredients used in the food shall
> be declared on the label as required by the applicable sections of parts
> 101 and 130 of this chapter; except that the name "tomato concentrate" may
> be used in lieu of the names "tomato puree," "tomato pulp," or "tomato
> paste" and when tomato concentrates are used, the labeling requirements of
> 155.191(a)(3)(ii)(*a* ) and (a)(3)(ii)(*b* ) do not apply.
>
> (b)*Quality.* (1) The standard of quality for catsup is as follows: The
> consistency of the finished food is such that its flow is not more than 14
> centimeters in 30 seconds at 20 deg. C when tested in a Bostwick
> Co

Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Patrick Moore]

Got it!


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> "and an ENO is very useful for that. But even the ENO has its liabilities"
>
> Both you and biketinker have attributed an opinion to me that I never
> stated.  I am NOT recommending vertical dropouts for a singlespeed bike.  I
> do think that vertical dropouts are the one and only sensible choice for 
> *derailer
> equipped* bikes.  That is my opinion, and that's what I stated.
>
> I think horizontal dropouts are the most sensible choice for a
> singlespeed.  I am not a fan of the eccentric ENO rear hub.
>
> The hubs I have personally used that enabled rear wheel "dropping out"
>
> Chris King with their fun bolts (on a custom Independent Fabrication
> Planet Cross)
> Paul WORD (spare wheels on same Indy Fab)
> White Industries ENO (not eccentric) on a Bianchi San Jose
>
> Only on the Bianchi San Jose did I have fenders.  When I moved to the top
> of a long 12% hill I divested myself of all single speed interests.
>
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 3:09:02 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>> My main point is that for the everybody else who is not so lucky, the
>>> universal solution for getting your wheel out from a perfect fender is to
>>> allow your rear wheel to "drop out".  That's one of the reasons why
>>> vertical dropouts are the thing to have on a derailer equipped bike, in my
>>> opinion.  For bikes that cannot have vertical dropouts, you can still
>>> easily make your rear wheel drop-out with a rear hub with removable bolts.
>>>
>>
>> I very much agree, and an ENO is very useful for that. But even the ENO
>> has its liabilities: in my own experience, limited take-up (2 cogs max);
>> and crowding the brake bridge on one bike (I had to be careful to rotate
>> the axle downward, contrary to the way it wanted to rotate under the weight
>> of the bike; and, last one, making rear pad adjustment fiddly, since  you
>> have to adjust for the slack and the tight chain positions.
>>
>> I think the ENO is a wonderful device, having used two on two different
>> bikes, but it too has its liabilities.
>>
>> Maybe the solution is an elastic chain!
>>
>>>
>>> What have your "erstwhile Honjos" become?  If they used to be Honjos,
>>> did they become SKF's?  Or perhaps you meant that they were formerly
>>> *yours*, not that they were formerly *Honjos*.  haha ;-)
>>>
>>
>> They transmogrified into Longboards. Not really. They got dumped -- long
>> story. But they did end up in a user's hands, so not a waste.
>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:46:09 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:

 A good fender line is not at all impossible with horizontals. My
 erstwhile Honjos looked perfect on the Curt and wheel removal was not a
 problem (32 mm tires). But I have to admit that this serendipity was just
 that -- by chance.

 --
>> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
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>> patric...@resumespecialties.com
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>
>> Albuquerque, NM
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: mechanical issues

[Patrick Moore]

This is a "holy war" subject that goes back generations. IIRC, the mighty
Jobst (pause reverentially. Moment of silence. Mblmblmblmbl. Amen) urges us
to grease. Phil, too, IIRC. At any rate, I've dutifully greased for decades
and never had a crank arm come loose or otherwise go astray.

Here is the holy write (mediated by Sheldon!):

http://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:56 PM, Perry  wrote:

> Grease everything. Then grease it again. Only this time, put your heart
> into it because you didn't use enough the first time. That's my philosophy,
> and dang! It works for me the same way Paleo works for Patrick. ;)
>
> Then there's this:
>
> To grease or not to grease? | Off The Beaten Path
> "So for our René Herse cranks, we recommend that you lightly grease the
> crank spindle. Also grease the treads of the bolts. Then tighten the bolts
> to 25 Nm. That is it. If you like, you can check after your first ride that
> the bolts are tight. Thereafter, leave them alone."
>
> http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/to-grease-or-not-to-grease/
>
> • Perry
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Bill Lindsay]

"and an ENO is very useful for that. But even the ENO has its liabilities"

Both you and biketinker have attributed an opinion to me that I never 
stated.  I am NOT recommending vertical dropouts for a singlespeed bike.  I 
do think that vertical dropouts are the one and only sensible choice for 
*derailer 
equipped* bikes.  That is my opinion, and that's what I stated.  

I think horizontal dropouts are the most sensible choice for a singlespeed. 
 I am not a fan of the eccentric ENO rear hub.  

The hubs I have personally used that enabled rear wheel "dropping out"

Chris King with their fun bolts (on a custom Independent Fabrication Planet 
Cross)
Paul WORD (spare wheels on same Indy Fab)
White Industries ENO (not eccentric) on a Bianchi San Jose

Only on the Bianchi San Jose did I have fenders.  When I moved to the top 
of a long 12% hill I divested myself of all single speed interests.  


On Monday, November 25, 2013 3:09:02 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Bill Lindsay 
> > wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> My main point is that for the everybody else who is not so lucky, the 
>> universal solution for getting your wheel out from a perfect fender is to 
>> allow your rear wheel to "drop out".  That's one of the reasons why 
>> vertical dropouts are the thing to have on a derailer equipped bike, in my 
>> opinion.  For bikes that cannot have vertical dropouts, you can still 
>> easily make your rear wheel drop-out with a rear hub with removable bolts.  
>>
>
> I very much agree, and an ENO is very useful for that. But even the ENO 
> has its liabilities: in my own experience, limited take-up (2 cogs max); 
> and crowding the brake bridge on one bike (I had to be careful to rotate 
> the axle downward, contrary to the way it wanted to rotate under the weight 
> of the bike; and, last one, making rear pad adjustment fiddly, since  you 
> have to adjust for the slack and the tight chain positions. 
>
> I think the ENO is a wonderful device, having used two on two different 
> bikes, but it too has its liabilities.
>
> Maybe the solution is an elastic chain!
>
>>
>> What have your "erstwhile Honjos" become?  If they used to be Honjos, did 
>> they become SKF's?  Or perhaps you meant that they were formerly *yours*, 
>> not that they were formerly *Honjos*.  haha ;-)
>>
>
> They transmogrified into Longboards. Not really. They got dumped -- long 
> story. But they did end up in a user's hands, so not a waste. 
>
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:46:09 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> A good fender line is not at all impossible with horizontals. My 
>>> erstwhile Honjos looked perfect on the Curt and wheel removal was not a 
>>> problem (32 mm tires). But I have to admit that this serendipity was just 
>>> that -- by chance.
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam/Simple One dropout question

[Patrick Moore]

That's the way to go, then -- thanks. I could use a 17/21 instead of the
current 17/20, and have a 22 or so for a real bail out.

I've thought of two rings, but frankly prefer the simplicity and hassle of
accommodating 3+ teeth in the back.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 2:18 PM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I get an easy 4 teeth difference, and I'm pretty sure I could get 8.
> Let's see - currently I have a 44t single ring, a 15t fixed cog, and a
> Dingle 17-21, and they all work fine with 37mm tires. Significantly fatter
> tires keeps the 44/21 from working.
>
> So: Six teeth for sure, with 37mm tires.
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:43:47 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks -- what about with a single ring: how many cogs can you get out of
>> the QB/SO dropout when all is optimized?
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Cyclofiend Jim 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Didn't realize the Dingle required a 9 sp chain.
>>>
>>> My stock gearing setup is the 40/32 front chainring setup with a 14T
>>> fixed and 18T FW.  The 40x14 (centered) and 40x18 fit easily.  The 32x18 is
>>> at the end of the dropout with that chain length.
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>>
>>> - Jim
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:38:41 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 The Converted (Campy) Curt Custom ('03) has long 1010s, but given my
 peculiar choice of ring and cog, any ~70" cruising gear puts the axle in
 the middle of the dropout, but too close to the end to accommodate another
 full chain link. This means that the dropout cannot accommodate a larger
 cog that is 3 t bigger -- the axle is halfway out of the dropout with such
 a cog.

 A half link would work if I were not using a Dingle, which requires a 9
 speed chain -- they don't make 9 speed chain half links (I asked Surly and
 half link makers).

 So, I am thinking of modifying, once again, the dropouts. Perhaps track
 ends?

 And this is the question: if optimally placed, how great a tooth
 difference can the track ends on the QB and SO accept? Or, are these track
 ends longer than Campy 1010s?

 Can a SO or QB accommodate a 4 t difference?

 Thanks.

 Patrick "no confusion, please, I've been quite clear" Moore

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Re: [RBW] Re: mechanical issues

[Ron Mc]

one more quote

Note: Relevant formulea for calculating Power thread torques and 
efficiencies are derived on webpage Power Screw 
Equations


   - F p = Desired bolt Preload (N)
   - p = Thread pitch (m)
   - d m = Mean diameter of thread (m)
   - μ = Coefficient of Thread friction
   - μ c = Coefficient of collar friction
   - α is the thread angle / 2 (α = 30 o for standard metric threads & α = 
   29 o/2 for acme threads).
   - r c = Collar friction radius (m)

Note: Friction values are found on this site on the coefficient of friction 
page..Coefficient of 
Friction
 

It can be proved that the majority of the torque is required to overcome 
the thread and collar friction forces (approx 90%).   Therefore any error 
in the value of the friction coefficient will have a large variation on the 
bolt tensile load.   The above formula is in essence not a lot more 
accurate than the approximate formulae above.
"Any error in the value of the friction coefficient will have a large 
variation on the bolt tensile load."
  http://www.roymech.co.uk/Useful_Tables/Screws/Preloading.html

On Monday, November 25, 2013 4:59:23 PM UTC-6, Ron Mc wrote:
>
>
> 
>
> Campagnolo Crankset Owners Manual
>
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 1:56:00 PM UTC-6, Perry wrote:
>>
>> Grease everything. Then grease it again. Only this time, put your heart 
>> into it because you didn't use enough the first time. That's my philosophy, 
>> and dang! It works for me the same way Paleo works for Patrick. ;) 
>>
>> Then there's this: 
>>
>> To grease or not to grease? | Off The Beaten Path 
>> "So for our René Herse cranks, we recommend that you lightly grease the 
>> crank spindle. Also grease the treads of the bolts. Then tighten the bolts 
>> to 25 Nm. That is it. If you like, you can check after your first ride that 
>> the bolts are tight. Thereafter, leave them alone." 
>>
>> http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/to-grease-or-not-to-grease/
>>  
>>
>> • Perry 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Patrick Moore]

One more: As to eccentric BBs, I've researched and there is quite a bit of
scuttlebutt about creaking, loosening -- they apparently have their own set
of problems.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I *get* it! Clever! I wish I could try that with the Surly hub on the '03,
> but the axle has caps with little shelves that fit into the dropouts -- you
> have to slide them along the dropout to remove the wheel.
>
> In fact, maybe not so clever: My Phil flip flop also have these "shelves"
> or what have you that fit into the slots -- again, no "drop down" removal.
>
> Is there a hub like that Bill has in mind?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:
>
>> Tinker
>>
>> I like the horizontal dropout to allow for correcting chain tension on a
>> single speed.  Then, with the wheel in the right position, you dial in the
>> fender.  Now that's fixed "forever".  You subsequently remove the wheel by
>> removing the bolts from the hub and the wheel drops out.
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 12:35:20 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>>>
>>> How would you adjust chain tension? Eccentric BB? White Industries
>>> Eccentric ENO hub?
>>> I'd vote for the BB, to let people run any wheels they want or have.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> www.biketinker.com
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:18:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:

 I'm not in the market for a single speed, but if I had a single speed,
 it would likely have fenders.  If it had fenders, it would likely have
 correct or close to correct fender line.  As such it would be impossible to
 remove the rear wheel either rearward with track-like dropouts or forward
 with horizontal road type dropouts.

 So, if it were me, I would simply run a good, MUSA rear hub that is
 bolted on with bolts, not nutted on with nuts.  The offering from Phil and
 Paul and White Industries and Chris King all have these allen bolts.
  Remove the two allen bolts entirely and the wheel drops out of the drop
 out.  No more problem.  You can have perfect fender line, and can remove
 your rear wheel without deflating it.  It will add between 30 and 60
 seconds to the total amount of time it takes to fix your flat.

 On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other
> fixed gear, so I prefer the track ends.
> I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To
> change the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases 
> to
> free up the fenders.
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>>
>>  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden
>> fenders, which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy
>> removal.  Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as
>> functional as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in 
>> non-downpours,
>> and with a mudflap, they’re not bad.
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Patrick Moore]

I *get* it! Clever! I wish I could try that with the Surly hub on the '03,
but the axle has caps with little shelves that fit into the dropouts -- you
have to slide them along the dropout to remove the wheel.

In fact, maybe not so clever: My Phil flip flop also have these "shelves"
or what have you that fit into the slots -- again, no "drop down" removal.

Is there a hub like that Bill has in mind?


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:39 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Tinker
>
> I like the horizontal dropout to allow for correcting chain tension on a
> single speed.  Then, with the wheel in the right position, you dial in the
> fender.  Now that's fixed "forever".  You subsequently remove the wheel by
> removing the bolts from the hub and the wheel drops out.
>
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 12:35:20 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>>
>> How would you adjust chain tension? Eccentric BB? White Industries
>> Eccentric ENO hub?
>> I'd vote for the BB, to let people run any wheels they want or have.
>>
>> Philip
>> www.biketinker.com
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:18:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm not in the market for a single speed, but if I had a single speed,
>>> it would likely have fenders.  If it had fenders, it would likely have
>>> correct or close to correct fender line.  As such it would be impossible to
>>> remove the rear wheel either rearward with track-like dropouts or forward
>>> with horizontal road type dropouts.
>>>
>>> So, if it were me, I would simply run a good, MUSA rear hub that is
>>> bolted on with bolts, not nutted on with nuts.  The offering from Phil and
>>> Paul and White Industries and Chris King all have these allen bolts.
>>>  Remove the two allen bolts entirely and the wheel drops out of the drop
>>> out.  No more problem.  You can have perfect fender line, and can remove
>>> your rear wheel without deflating it.  It will add between 30 and 60
>>> seconds to the total amount of time it takes to fix your flat.
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:

 I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed
 gear, so I prefer the track ends.
 I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To
 change the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to
 free up the fenders.

 Philip
 www.biketinker.com


 On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>
>  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden
> fenders, which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy
> removal.  Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as
> functional as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours,
> and with a mudflap, they’re not bad.
>
>
>
>
>  --
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Re: [RBW] Re: New (to me) Bombadil build

[Tom Harrop]

Really like the big bullmoose bars. Great build.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Patrick Moore]

On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:15 PM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> [...]
> My main point is that for the everybody else who is not so lucky, the
> universal solution for getting your wheel out from a perfect fender is to
> allow your rear wheel to "drop out".  That's one of the reasons why
> vertical dropouts are the thing to have on a derailer equipped bike, in my
> opinion.  For bikes that cannot have vertical dropouts, you can still
> easily make your rear wheel drop-out with a rear hub with removable bolts.
>

I very much agree, and an ENO is very useful for that. But even the ENO has
its liabilities: in my own experience, limited take-up (2 cogs max); and
crowding the brake bridge on one bike (I had to be careful to rotate the
axle downward, contrary to the way it wanted to rotate under the weight of
the bike; and, last one, making rear pad adjustment fiddly, since  you have
to adjust for the slack and the tight chain positions.

I think the ENO is a wonderful device, having used two on two different
bikes, but it too has its liabilities.

Maybe the solution is an elastic chain!

>
> What have your "erstwhile Honjos" become?  If they used to be Honjos, did
> they become SKF's?  Or perhaps you meant that they were formerly *yours*,
> not that they were formerly *Honjos*.  haha ;-)
>

They transmogrified into Longboards. Not really. They got dumped -- long
story. But they did end up in a user's hands, so not a waste.

>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:46:09 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> A good fender line is not at all impossible with horizontals. My
>> erstwhile Honjos looked perfect on the Curt and wheel removal was not a
>> problem (32 mm tires). But I have to admit that this serendipity was just
>> that -- by chance.
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Quickbeam/Simple One dropout question

[Eric Daume]

The QB can do 8 teeth--the original gearing was 32/40 up front, so the
dropout was made to accommodate that.

FYI, my Crosscheck's dropouts can do 6 teeth. I don't know if Surly makes
them available aftermarket, though. They used to be available, but I don't
see them on the site now.

Eric Daume
Dublin, OH


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:38 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> The Converted (Campy) Curt Custom ('03) has long 1010s, but given my
> peculiar choice of ring and cog, any ~70" cruising gear puts the axle in
> the middle of the dropout, but too close to the end to accommodate another
> full chain link. This means that the dropout cannot accommodate a larger
> cog that is 3 t bigger -- the axle is halfway out of the dropout with such
> a cog.
>
> A half link would work if I were not using a Dingle, which requires a 9
> speed chain -- they don't make 9 speed chain half links (I asked Surly and
> half link makers).
>
> So, I am thinking of modifying, once again, the dropouts. Perhaps track
> ends?
>
> And this is the question: if optimally placed, how great a tooth
> difference can the track ends on the QB and SO accept? Or, are these track
> ends longer than Campy 1010s?
>
> Can a SO or QB accommodate a 4 t difference?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Patrick "no confusion, please, I've been quite clear" Moore
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Eric Daume]

I don't have any issues with removing (true) 35mm tires on my Crosscheck
with its forward horizontal dropouts--so it's certainly possible.

Eric "it's/its" correctly punctuated, I hope" Daume
Dublin, OH


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed
> gear, so I prefer the track ends.
> I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To change
> the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to free
> up the fenders.
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>
>>  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden fenders,
>> which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy removal.
>> Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as functional
>> as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, and with a
>> mudflap, they’re not bad.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com]
>> *On Behalf Of *Eric Norris
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 25, 2013 10:41 AM
>> *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?
>>
>>
>>
>> My suggestion for a future reissue of the QB/SO: Horizontal drops, angled
>> like the track ends on the QB. Track ends are certainly traditional for
>> fixed gear bikes (and I suppose for single-speeds), but they make it more
>> difficult to get the rear wheel in and out, especially with fenders. On my
>> QB, I have to put the rear wheel in the frame with the tire
>> deflated--there's barely enough clearance to squeeze it in, and moving the
>> fender far enough back for adequate clearance would result in an ugly and
>> unacceptable chain line.
>>
>>
>>
>> Extra-long horizontal drops, cut out of the same material as those on the
>> original QB, would make the bike more nearly perfect.
>>
>>
>> Eric N
>>
>> www.CampyOnly.com
>>
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>>
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: mechanical issues

[Ron Mc]

Campagnolo Crankset Owners Manual


On Monday, November 25, 2013 1:56:00 PM UTC-6, Perry wrote:
>
> Grease everything. Then grease it again. Only this time, put your heart 
> into it because you didn't use enough the first time. That's my philosophy, 
> and dang! It works for me the same way Paleo works for Patrick. ;) 
>
> Then there's this: 
>
> To grease or not to grease? | Off The Beaten Path 
> "So for our René Herse cranks, we recommend that you lightly grease the 
> crank spindle. Also grease the treads of the bolts. Then tighten the bolts 
> to 25 Nm. That is it. If you like, you can check after your first ride that 
> the bolts are tight. Thereafter, leave them alone." 
>
> http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/to-grease-or-not-to-grease/
>  
>
> • Perry 
>

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Re: [RBW] Winter Delaware Water Gap-where's the AT in MD

[Joan Oppel]

The AT crosses Rt 40 near Myersville, MD (near where 40 goes over/under I70).  There's a parking lot at the top there, access to the AT for hiking only.  Also, there are bike routes, paved routes, leaving from that parking lot.  Prepare for climbing.   See this link: http://goo.gl/maps/ydaCqJoan  On 11/25/13, Paul Germain wrote: Michael, as Anne says, no bikes are allowed on the actual AT trails, but the trail does at times come into small towns like this one (Delaware Water Gap township). In this case, it allows the hikers to cross the river on the Rt.611 bridge pedestrian path and to touch base with civilization, recoup, restock food, etc. My experience on the trail is that it would be largely unridable, even on a mountain bike. No piece of cake. Nothing like the groomed trail I rode back on Day 2 (the McDade Recreational Trail).    If you saw the PDF map of the park, the AT skirts down the eastern side and generally snakes down (up) linked state & nat'l forests or parks along the spine of the Appalachian Mountains form Maine to Georgia.Down in southwestern Va., we have the little town of Damascus, where the Appalachian Trail and the TransAm Bike Route 76 intersect.Paul GermainMidlothian, Va.Michael  Nov 24 03:09PM -0800  > Thanks Paul! Looks like a nice ride! I wonder if one can ride the whole Appalacian trail. I saw that picture of that sign "Maine to Georgia". Sounds like east coast camping/riding. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.T



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[RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Garth]

   Debate ought to be spelled de-bait   lol.Hook line and sinker.   
Dangle a little something  in this case catsup . and watch the 
feasting upon each other begin ;) 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Shoji Takahashi]

I've gone through all of these posts, and it's quite amusing! Now Grant 
will have to source some sugar-less ketchup from the farmers market so that 
we can buy some for the holidays. Bike Book and Ketchup anyone?



On Monday, November 25, 2013 5:00:07 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I'm sure it did.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 2:26:42 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>>
>> I just ate a snickers bar to see if it tasted right, yup it was 
>> delicious.  ;-) 
>> On Nov 25, 2013 4:24 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:
>>
>>>  On 11/25/2013 04:13 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>>  
>>> What do you think a "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is? It's *sugar*!
>>>
>>>
>>> Sugar is a nutritive carbohydrate sweetener, but it is not the only 
>>> one.  Others include include glucose, fructose, corn syrup, high fructose 
>>> corn syrup, and sugar alcohols (e.g., sorbitol, mannitol, and xylitol), 
>>> according to the Britannica.
>>>
>>> One or any combination of two or more of the following safe and suitable 
>>> ingredients in each of the following categories is added to the tomato 
>>> ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section: 
>>>
>>> (i) Vinegars.
>>>
>>> (ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in 
>>> part 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.
>>>
>>> (iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.
>>>
>>>
>>> Combing the verbiage with a fine-tooth comb I conclude that per the 
>>> standard, "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is in fact a required 
>>> ingredient.
>>>
>>>  
>>>  You may say that one can leave out the sugar, and it will still 
>>> legally qualify as ketchup. Apparently so, but it is not going to taste 
>>> like ketchup.
>>>  
>>>
>>> AFAIK federal standards of identity prescribe what must be in a product, 
>>> but not what it is supposed to taste like.
>>>
>>>
>>>  -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm sure it did.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, November 25, 2013 2:26:42 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>
> I just ate a snickers bar to see if it tasted right, yup it was 
> delicious.  ;-) 
> On Nov 25, 2013 4:24 PM, "Steve Palincsar" > 
> wrote:
>
>>  On 11/25/2013 04:13 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>  
>> What do you think a "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is? It's *sugar*!
>>
>>
>> Sugar is a nutritive carbohydrate sweetener, but it is not the only one.  
>> Others include include glucose, fructose, corn syrup, high fructose corn 
>> syrup, and sugar alcohols (e.g., sorbitol, mannitol, and xylitol), 
>> according to the Britannica.
>>
>> One or any combination of two or more of the following safe and suitable 
>> ingredients in each of the following categories is added to the tomato 
>> ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section: 
>>
>> (i) Vinegars.
>>
>> (ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in 
>> part 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.
>>
>> (iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.
>>
>>
>> Combing the verbiage with a fine-tooth comb I conclude that per the 
>> standard, "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is in fact a required 
>> ingredient.
>>
>>  
>>  You may say that one can leave out the sugar, and it will still legally 
>> qualify as ketchup. Apparently so, but it is not going to taste like 
>> ketchup.
>>  
>>
>> AFAIK federal standards of identity prescribe what must be in a product, 
>> but not what it is supposed to taste like.
>>
>>
>>  -- 
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>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2013 04:26 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:


I just ate a snickers bar to see if it tasted right, yup it was 
delicious.  ;-)




I don't think there's a federal standard of identity for "snickers bar" 
and I doubt there's a version made without sugar or other nutritive 
carbohydrate sweetener...


On Nov 25, 2013 4:24 PM, "Steve Palincsar" > wrote:


On 11/25/2013 04:13 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:

What do you think a "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is? It's
*sugar*!


Sugar is a nutritive carbohydrate sweetener, but it is not the
only one.  Others include include glucose, fructose, corn syrup,
high fructose corn syrup, and sugar alcohols (e.g., sorbitol,
mannitol, and xylitol), according to the Britannica.


One or any combination of two or more of the following safe and
suitable ingredients in each of the following categories is added
to the tomato ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this
section:

(i) Vinegars.

(ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if
defined in part 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.

(iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.



Combing the verbiage with a fine-tooth comb I conclude that per
the standard, "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is in fact a
required ingredient.



You may say that one can leave out the sugar, and it will still
legally qualify as ketchup. Apparently so, but it is not going to
taste like ketchup.


AFAIK federal standards of identity prescribe what must be in a
product, but not what it is supposed to taste like.



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RE: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Neutral corners, boys...

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 4:59 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

On 11/25/2013 04:26 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:

I just ate a snickers bar to see if it tasted right, yup it was delicious.  ;-)

I don't think there's a federal standard of identity for "snickers bar" and I 
doubt there's a version made without sugar or other nutritive carbohydrate 
sweetener...


On Nov 25, 2013 4:24 PM, "Steve Palincsar" 
mailto:palin...@his.com>> wrote:
On 11/25/2013 04:13 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:
What do you think a "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is? It's *sugar*!

Sugar is a nutritive carbohydrate sweetener, but it is not the only one.  
Others include include glucose, fructose, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, 
and sugar alcohols (e.g., sorbitol, mannitol, and xylitol), according to the 
Britannica.


One or any combination of two or more of the following safe and suitable 
ingredients in each of the following categories is added to the tomato 
ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:

(i) Vinegars.

(ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in part 168 
of this chapter shall be as defined therein.

(iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.

Combing the verbiage with a fine-tooth comb I conclude that per the standard, 
"nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is in fact a required ingredient.



You may say that one can leave out the sugar, and it will still legally qualify 
as ketchup. Apparently so, but it is not going to taste like ketchup.

AFAIK federal standards of identity prescribe what must be in a product, but 
not what it is supposed to taste like.

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[RBW] Winter Delaware Water Gap trip

[Paul Germain]

Bob,


It was contiguous from Dingman's Ferry down to Hialeah. The map shows it goes 
all the way up to Rt 206 near Milford, though I did not have an extra day for 
the much riding. I did read a review of the trail that mentioned it was not 
very well marked at the top end, so a call to park HQ might be in order. They 
were quite helpful to me, including mailing me a great map. (I could not print 
the PDF off their site large enough to be helpful in low light like I had.) The 
trail is accessible from numerous points along Rt 209, which runs parallel. 


As to missing bridges, It's possible there were some that washed out over the 
years, but the "official" park mp I had showed only one place to cross except 
the top and bottom of the park. All the trail bridges (over creeks) were rather 
small ones, in good shape and maintained.



While not a rail trail, the McDade did have numerous river views and the 
surface was quite nice, with no muddy spots. The terrain on the trail was quite 
varied, so interesting without being too difficult with heavy winter gear. I 
experienced no hunters driving ATVs either, which was surprising. That would 
not be the case in most Nat'l Forests here in the east. I saw only one other 
bike rider (recreational and a local) the whole way down. No riders at all the 
first day up Old Mine Rd.



My problem was that I was "winging it" from Hialeah down the River Road toward 
I-80 to cross the river to my van and could find no one who could tell me if I 
could get under the Interstate. (I did and was able to backtrack the final 8 
miles before dark.)


Paul Germain

Midlothian, Va



 Winter Delaware Water Gap trip
Bob E  Nov 24 04:55PM -0800  

Looks like a great trip! Nice photos, too -- love that late-autumn sun!
 
Regarding the McDade trail: Was it continuous all the way from the 
Dingman's Ferry bridge to Hialeah? I've been hesitant to ride that, as the 
other maps I've seen show the trail as being disconnected, with missing 
bridges.
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Peter Morgano]

I just ate a snickers bar to see if it tasted right, yup it was delicious.
;-)
On Nov 25, 2013 4:24 PM, "Steve Palincsar"  wrote:

>  On 11/25/2013 04:13 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> What do you think a "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is? It's *sugar*!
>
>
> Sugar is a nutritive carbohydrate sweetener, but it is not the only one.
> Others include include glucose, fructose, corn syrup, high fructose corn
> syrup, and sugar alcohols (e.g., sorbitol, mannitol, and xylitol),
> according to the Britannica.
>
> One or any combination of two or more of the following safe and suitable
> ingredients in each of the following categories is added to the tomato
> ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:
>
> (i) Vinegars.
>
> (ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in part
> 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.
>
> (iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.
>
>
> Combing the verbiage with a fine-tooth comb I conclude that per the
> standard, "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is in fact a required
> ingredient.
>
>
>  You may say that one can leave out the sugar, and it will still legally
> qualify as ketchup. Apparently so, but it is not going to taste like
> ketchup.
>
>
> AFAIK federal standards of identity prescribe what must be in a product,
> but not what it is supposed to taste like.
>
>
>  --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2013 04:13 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:

What do you think a "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is? It's *sugar*!


Sugar is a nutritive carbohydrate sweetener, but it is not the only 
one.  Others include include glucose, fructose, corn syrup, high 
fructose corn syrup, and sugar alcohols (e.g., sorbitol, mannitol, and 
xylitol), according to the Britannica.


One or any combination of two or more of the following safe and 
suitable ingredients in each of the following categories is added to 
the tomato ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:


(i) Vinegars.

(ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in 
part 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.


(iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.



Combing the verbiage with a fine-tooth comb I conclude that per the 
standard, "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is in fact a required 
ingredient.




You may say that one can leave out the sugar, and it will still 
legally qualify as ketchup. Apparently so, but it is not going to 
taste like ketchup.


AFAIK federal standards of identity prescribe what must be in a product, 
but not what it is supposed to taste like.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam/Simple One dropout question

[Philip Williamson]

I get an easy 4 teeth difference, and I'm pretty sure I could get 8. 
Let's see - currently I have a 44t single ring, a 15t fixed cog, and a 
Dingle 17-21, and they all work fine with 37mm tires. Significantly fatter 
tires keeps the 44/21 from working. 

So: Six teeth for sure, with 37mm tires. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:43:47 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Thanks -- what about with a single ring: how many cogs can you get out of 
> the QB/SO dropout when all is optimized?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Cyclofiend Jim 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>> Didn't realize the Dingle required a 9 sp chain. 
>>
>> My stock gearing setup is the 40/32 front chainring setup with a 14T 
>> fixed and 18T FW.  The 40x14 (centered) and 40x18 fit easily.  The 32x18 is 
>> at the end of the dropout with that chain length.
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>>
>> - Jim
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:38:41 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> The Converted (Campy) Curt Custom ('03) has long 1010s, but given my 
>>> peculiar choice of ring and cog, any ~70" cruising gear puts the axle in 
>>> the middle of the dropout, but too close to the end to accommodate another 
>>> full chain link. This means that the dropout cannot accommodate a larger 
>>> cog that is 3 t bigger -- the axle is halfway out of the dropout with such 
>>> a cog.
>>>
>>> A half link would work if I were not using a Dingle, which requires a 9 
>>> speed chain -- they don't make 9 speed chain half links (I asked Surly and 
>>> half link makers).
>>>
>>> So, I am thinking of modifying, once again, the dropouts. Perhaps track 
>>> ends?
>>>
>>> And this is the question: if optimally placed, how great a tooth 
>>> difference can the track ends on the QB and SO accept? Or, are these track 
>>> ends longer than Campy 1010s?
>>>
>>> Can a SO or QB accommodate a 4 t difference?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Patrick "no confusion, please, I've been quite clear" Moore
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
>>>  Certified Resume Writer
>>> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
>>> patric...@resumespecialties.com
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>>>
>>> Albuquerque, NM
>>>  
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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Deacon Patrick]

Which helps illustrate the point I'm making, Anne, that most people's 
tastebuds get so much sweet in the food they are used to eating so foods 
without it taste "wrong" even though they aren't.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, November 25, 2013 2:13:40 PM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> What do you think a "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is? It's *sugar*!
>
> You may say that one can leave out the sugar, and it will still legally 
> qualify as ketchup. Apparently so, but it is not going to taste like 
> ketchup.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Steve Palincsar 
> 
> > wrote:
>
>>  On 11/25/2013 12:30 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:
>>  
>> I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should
>> like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a
>> condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar,
>> you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something
>> delicious, but it's not ketchup.
>>
>>  
>> That is so not so.  There is in fact a federal standard of identity for 
>> ketchup, published in the Code of Federal Regulations, and here it is:
>>
>>   [Code of Federal Regulations]  [Title 21, Volume 2]  [Revised as of 
>> April 1, 2013]  [CITE: 21CFR155.194]  
>>
>>
>> TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS  CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
>> DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES  SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR 
>> HUMAN CONSUMPTION
>>
>> PART 155 -- CANNED 
>> VEGETABLES
>>  
>>
>> Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables 
>>   Sec. 155.194 Catsup. 
>>
>> (a)*Identity* --(1)*Definition.* Catsup, ketchup, or catchup is the food 
>> prepared from one or any combination of two or more of the following 
>> optional tomato ingredients:
>>
>> (i) Tomato concentrate as defined in 155.191(a)(1), except that lemon 
>> juice, concentrated lemon juice, or safe and suitable organic acids may be 
>> used in quantities no greater than necessary to adjust the pH, and in 
>> compliance with 155.191(b).
>>
>> (ii) The liquid derived from mature tomatoes of the red or reddish 
>> varieties*Lycopersicum esculentum* P. Mill.
>>
>> (iii) The liquid obtained from the residue from preparing such tomatoes 
>> for canning, consisting of peelings and cores with or without such tomatoes 
>> or pieces thereof.
>>
>> (iv) The liquid obtained from the residue from partial extraction of 
>> juice from such tomatoes.
>>
>> Such liquid is strained so as to exclude skins, seeds, and other coarse 
>> or hard substances in accordance with current good manufacturing practice. 
>> Prior to straining, food-grade hydrochloric acid may be added to the tomato 
>> material in an amount to obtain a pH no lower than 2.0. Such acid is then 
>> neutralized with food-grade sodium hydroxide so that the treated tomato 
>> material is restored to a pH of 4.2+/-0.2. The final composition of the 
>> food may be adjusted by concentration and/or by the addition of water. The 
>> food may contain salt (sodium chloride formed during acid neutralization 
>> shall be considered added salt) and is seasoned with ingredients as 
>> specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this section. The food is preserved by 
>> heat sterilization (canning), refrigeration, or freezing. When sealed in a 
>> container to be held at ambient temperatures, it is so processed by heat, 
>> before or after sealing, as to prevent spoilage.
>>
>> (2)*Ingredients.* One or any combination of two or more of the following 
>> safe and suitable ingredients in each of the following categories is added 
>> to the tomato ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:
>>
>> (i) Vinegars.
>>
>> (ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in 
>> part 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.
>>
>> (iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.
>>
>> (3)*Labeling.* (i) The name of the food is "Catsup," "Ketchup," or 
>> "Catchup."
>>
>> (ii) The following shall be included as part of the name or in close 
>> proximity to the name of the food:
>>
>> (*a* ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may 
>> be, "residual tomato material from canning" if the optional tomato 
>> ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iii) of this section or tomato 
>> concentrate containing the ingredient specified in 155.191(a)(1)(ii) is 
>> present.
>>
>> (*b* ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may 
>> be, "residual tomato material from partial extraction of juice" if the 
>> optional tomato ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iv) of this 
>> section or tomato concentrate containing the ingredient specified in 
>> 155.191(a)(1)(iii) is present.
>>
>> (iii)*Label declaration.* Each of the ingredients used in the food shall 
>> be declared on the label as require

Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Anne Paulson]

What do you think a "nutritive carbohydrate sweetener" is? It's *sugar*!

You may say that one can leave out the sugar, and it will still legally
qualify as ketchup. Apparently so, but it is not going to taste like
ketchup.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>  On 11/25/2013 12:30 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should
> like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a
> condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar,
> you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something
> delicious, but it's not ketchup.
>
>
> That is so not so.  There is in fact a federal standard of identity for
> ketchup, published in the Code of Federal Regulations, and here it is:
>
>   [Code of Federal Regulations]  [Title 21, Volume 2]  [Revised as of
> April 1, 2013]  [CITE: 21CFR155.194]
>
>
> TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS  CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
> DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES  SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR HUMAN
> CONSUMPTION
>
> PART 155 -- CANNED 
> VEGETABLES
>
> Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables
>   Sec. 155.194 Catsup.
>
> (a)*Identity* --(1)*Definition.* Catsup, ketchup, or catchup is the food
> prepared from one or any combination of two or more of the following
> optional tomato ingredients:
>
> (i) Tomato concentrate as defined in 155.191(a)(1), except that lemon
> juice, concentrated lemon juice, or safe and suitable organic acids may be
> used in quantities no greater than necessary to adjust the pH, and in
> compliance with 155.191(b).
>
> (ii) The liquid derived from mature tomatoes of the red or reddish
> varieties*Lycopersicum esculentum* P. Mill.
>
> (iii) The liquid obtained from the residue from preparing such tomatoes
> for canning, consisting of peelings and cores with or without such tomatoes
> or pieces thereof.
>
> (iv) The liquid obtained from the residue from partial extraction of juice
> from such tomatoes.
>
> Such liquid is strained so as to exclude skins, seeds, and other coarse or
> hard substances in accordance with current good manufacturing practice.
> Prior to straining, food-grade hydrochloric acid may be added to the tomato
> material in an amount to obtain a pH no lower than 2.0. Such acid is then
> neutralized with food-grade sodium hydroxide so that the treated tomato
> material is restored to a pH of 4.2+/-0.2. The final composition of the
> food may be adjusted by concentration and/or by the addition of water. The
> food may contain salt (sodium chloride formed during acid neutralization
> shall be considered added salt) and is seasoned with ingredients as
> specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this section. The food is preserved by
> heat sterilization (canning), refrigeration, or freezing. When sealed in a
> container to be held at ambient temperatures, it is so processed by heat,
> before or after sealing, as to prevent spoilage.
>
> (2)*Ingredients.* One or any combination of two or more of the following
> safe and suitable ingredients in each of the following categories is added
> to the tomato ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:
>
> (i) Vinegars.
>
> (ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in part
> 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.
>
> (iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.
>
> (3)*Labeling.* (i) The name of the food is "Catsup," "Ketchup," or
> "Catchup."
>
> (ii) The following shall be included as part of the name or in close
> proximity to the name of the food:
>
> (*a* ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may
> be, "residual tomato material from canning" if the optional tomato
> ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iii) of this section or tomato
> concentrate containing the ingredient specified in 155.191(a)(1)(ii) is
> present.
>
> (*b* ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may
> be, "residual tomato material from partial extraction of juice" if the
> optional tomato ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iv) of this
> section or tomato concentrate containing the ingredient specified in
> 155.191(a)(1)(iii) is present.
>
> (iii)*Label declaration.* Each of the ingredients used in the food shall
> be declared on the label as required by the applicable sections of parts
> 101 and 130 of this chapter; except that the name "tomato concentrate" may
> be used in lieu of the names "tomato puree," "tomato pulp," or "tomato
> paste" and when tomato concentrates are used, the labeling requirements of
> 155.191(a)(3)(ii)(*a* ) and (a)(3)(ii)(*b* ) do not apply.
>
> (b)*Quality.* (1) The standard of quality for catsup is as follows: The
> consistency of the finished food is such that its flow is not more than 14
> centimeters in 30 seconds at 20 deg. C when tested in a Bostwick
> Consistomet

[RBW] Re: Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously Interested

[Philip Williamson]

"Sam like" probably means "double top tubes in the larger sizes."
135 OLD would be a good idea. Threadless headset, too. Not being sarcastic, 
either. I think both of those are good things. Neither are must-haves for 
me (neither is another Quickbeam (but it sure would be nice)). 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:03:26 AM UTC-8, Bob Cook wrote:
>
> Kind of you to "volunteer." ;-)
>
> Would you, Jim, or any others out there have a sense whether "Sam-like" 
> could mean 135 rear spacing? I ask because I learned the way of 
> single-speed after the SOs were gone.  I have a Cross Check with a wheel 
> set I like very much (Paul hubs, White Industries DOS ENO freewheel). The 
> rear hub is 135 OLD. CC is a fine frame, but I want lugs, longer chain 
> stays, kickstand plate, etc.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:17:03 AM UTC-6, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>>
>> In a separate thread, I seem to have been volunteered to collect names of 
>> those seriously interested in a next generation SimpleOne / Quickbeam.
>>
>> The thread can be found here:
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QhzO4CFyz1U
>>
>> Please take a moment to read it all the way through.  Thanks!
>>
>> Ok... Welcome back!
>>
>> here's what Grant posted:
>>
>> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:53:57 PM UTC-8, grant wrote:
>>>
>>> Nothing's ever for sure gone for good, but here's the thing with the 
>>> SimpleBeams (forgive the gross generalizations used to make the point 
>>> without accounting for exceptions. I will use "everybody" not in the 
>>> literal sense):
>>>
>>> Everybody moans the loss of a bike they didn't buy when it was availabe. 
>>> The SB was always the slowest seller of all time, which in itself isn't the 
>>> end of the world, but what it means for us is---it was a cash flow killer. 
>>> We pay fully for 100 of them about two months before they arrive. Then it 
>>> takes a year and a half or two years to sell them. 
>>> One thing that seems to happen is--when something's readily available, 
>>> it's meh...and when it's gone, the heart grows fonder genuinely--and maybe 
>>> people who would have been buyers when the bike was around have just 
>>> learned about it and think hey I'd like that. But there is a small tendency 
>>> to overenthuse about what can't be had. I do it myself with other things in 
>>> my life. 
>>> *Dang, they quit making that __ I've hemmed and hawed about and 
>>> admired for years, but never wanted enough to buy, but now that I can't buy 
>>> it, shoot!*I don't mean that's rampant here, and I DO like that the 
>>> bikes are so well-liked. Me too. I sold my QB when I needed money, figured 
>>> I could always get a SO, and now they're gone and I want one more than 
>>> ever. So---I'm not just an observer of this phenomenon, but a participant!
>>> If we could pre-sell 30 of them. Paid two-months before they arrive 
>>> (that's when our payment is due), I'd stick my neck out and order 100. This 
>>> time they'd be slightly different, and the danger of this hypothetical 
>>> scenario is that it would open a debate about what's the difference between 
>>> the new and old, which is preferable, then a vote, and it all gets weird 
>>> and half the people who expressed willingness to get a new one now feel 
>>> dis-listened to and bummed because it didn't go that way.
>>> So...i'd be innerested only if I had free secret rein to tweak it 
>>> this way and that, still resulting in a killer one-speed, but not a clone 
>>> of the SO, which was a clone of the QB. It might be any color, any name, 
>>> any kind of break, any anything. I totally get that ordering semi-blind 
>>> isn't easy to do. The unblind part of the semi is: Track or horizontal 
>>> dropouts angled to allow pad contact over a wide range of chainlengths, 
>>> like QB/SO. Two bottle mounts, rackable. good clearance. Basically Sam-like 
>>> with diff dropouts. Probably sidepulls but could be cantis. A perfectly 
>>> good color, a good name, a nice badge, a really great singler.
>>>
>>> Serious agreers will PM cyclofiend (Jim! So sorryplease forgive 
>>> me...but these  months I have so many kaleidiscopes in my head that I can't 
>>> have another one), and if the list reaches 30 (meaning you'll have $1200  
>>> by Dec 2014 for the frame/fork/headset, and the money won't evaporate in a 
>>> divorce or unforseeable crisis), then we'll get some good frames.
>>>
>>> I have a full plate and I know it seems so bad to say I can't answer 
>>> questions about this, but for the next few months I probably can't. You can 
>>> try, and I'll try, but I'm at my  physicalemotional limit, and ... can't 
>>> promise. If you send a postcard, I'll respond with a postcard.
>>>
>>> Is this all too much? Probably. Sorry again. 
>>>
>>> If nothing happens now, I think the bike will happen again later, but it 
>>> may be an extra year or two.
>>>
>>> I know there are lots of options out there. I'm not trying to mak

Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2013 04:00 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J wrote:


I believe one reason that book is so good is that Sayers worked (I'm 
pretty sure) in an ad agency and knew what she was talking about.





Yes indeed she did.  She was the author of the slogan "Guinness is Good 
For You."   Quoting the Wikipedia:


   /Sayers' longest employment was from 1922 to 1931 as a //copywriter
   //at //S.H. Benson
   //'s advertising agency in
   London. This was located at International Buildings, Kingsway,
   London. Sayers was quite successful as an advertiser. Her
   collaboration with artist //John Gilroy
   //resulted in
   "The Mustard Club" for //Colman's
   //Mustard and the
   //Guinness //"Zoo"
   advertisements, variations of which still appear today. /


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RE: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I believe one reason that book is so good is that Sayers worked (I'm pretty 
sure) in an ad agency and knew what she was talking about.

Oh, and, uh, rode a lugged steel bicycle?


From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 3:50 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

On 11/25/2013 03:42 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J wrote:
I always hesitate to disagree with Steve, but if we're going to rely on federal 
regulators to tell us what ketchup is, we're in trouble.

No, actually federal standards of identity are there to protect consumers.   
For a further explanation, let me offer the following excerpt from Dorothy 
Sayers magnificent _Murder Must Advertise_:

"How about truth in advertising?"



"Of course, there is _some_ truth in advertising. There's yeast in

bread, but you can't make bread with yeast alone. Truth in advertising,"

announced Lord Peter sententiously, "is like leaven, which a woman hid

in three measures of meal. It provides a suitable quantity of gas, with

which to blow out a mass of crude misrepresentation into a form that the

public can swallow. Which incidentally brings me to the delicate and

important distinction between the words 'with' and 'from.' Suppose you

are advertising lemonade, or, not to be invidious, we will say perry. If

you say 'Our perry is made from fresh-plucked pears only,' then it's got

to be made from pears only, or the statement is actionable; if you just

say it is made 'from pears,' without the 'only,' the betting is that it

is probably made chiefly of pears; but if you say, 'made _with_ pears,'

you generally mean that you use a peck of pears to a ton of turnips, and

the law cannot touch you--such are the niceties of our English tongue."



"Make a note, Mary, next time you go shopping, and buy nothing that is

not 'from, only.' Proceed, Peter--and let us have a little less of your

English tongue."

or for the more legally minded, I offer this:  
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/foodlaw/processingsector/standardofidentity




From: 
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 3:40 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

On 11/25/2013 12:30 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:

I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should

like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a

condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar,

you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something

delicious, but it's not ketchup.

That is so not so.  There is in fact a federal standard of identity for 
ketchup, published in the Code of Federal Regulations, and here it is:
[Code of Federal Regulations]

[Title 21, Volume 2]

[Revised as of April 1, 2013]

[CITE: 21CFR155.194]




TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS


CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES


SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION



PART 155 -- CANNED 
VEGETABLES

Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables
Sec. 155.194 Catsup.



(a)Identity --(1)Definition. Catsup, ketchup, or catchup is the food prepared 
from one or any combination of two or more of the following optional tomato 
ingredients:

(i) Tomato concentrate as defined in 155.191(a)(1), except that lemon juice, 
concentrated lemon juice, or safe and suitable organic acids may be used in 
quantities no greater than necessary to adjust the pH, and in compliance with 
155.191(b).

(ii) The liquid derived from mature tomatoes of the red or reddish 
varietiesLycopersicum esculentum P. Mill.

(iii) The liquid obtained from the residue from preparing such tomatoes for 
canning, consisting of peelings and cores with or without such tomatoes or 
pieces thereof.

(iv) The liquid obtained from the residue from partial extraction of juice from 
such tomatoes.

Such liquid is strained so as to exclude skins, seeds, and other coarse or hard 
substances in accordance with current good manufacturing practice. Prior to 
straining, food-grade hydrochloric acid may be added to the tomato material in 
an amount to obtain a pH no lower than 2.0. Such acid is then neutralized with 
food-grade sodium hydroxide so that the treated tomato material is restored to 
a pH of 4.2+/-0.2. The final composition of the food may be adjusted by 
concentration and/or by the addition of water. The food may contain salt 
(sodium chloride formed during acid neutralization shall be considered added 
salt) and is seasoned with ingredients as specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this 
section. The food is preserved by heat sterilization (canning), refrigeration

Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Bill Lindsay]

I know right?  What the hell is wrong with him?  Why doesn't he get his 
definition of things from Wikipedia like normal people?

harrumpf!

On Monday, November 25, 2013 12:42:15 PM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>
>  I always hesitate to disagree with Steve, but if we’re going to rely on 
> federal regulators to tell us what ketchup is, we’re in trouble.
>
>  
>  
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2013 03:42 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J wrote:


I always hesitate to disagree with Steve, but if we're going to rely 
on federal regulators to tell us what ketchup is, we're in trouble.




No, actually federal standards of identity are there to protect 
consumers.   For a further explanation, let me offer the following 
excerpt from Dorothy Sayers magnificent _Murder Must Advertise_:


"How about truth in advertising?"

"Of course, there is _some_ truth in advertising. There's yeast in
bread, but you can't make bread with yeast alone. Truth in advertising,"
announced Lord Peter sententiously, "is like leaven, which a woman hid
in three measures of meal. It provides a suitable quantity of gas, with
which to blow out a mass of crude misrepresentation into a form that the
public can swallow. Which incidentally brings me to the delicate and
important distinction between the words 'with' and 'from.' Suppose you
are advertising lemonade, or, not to be invidious, we will say perry. If
you say 'Our perry is made from fresh-plucked pears only,' then it's got
to be made from pears only, or the statement is actionable; if you just
say it is made 'from pears,' without the 'only,' the betting is that it
is probably made chiefly of pears; but if you say, 'made _with_ pears,'
you generally mean that you use a peck of pears to a ton of turnips, and
the law cannot touch you--such are the niceties of our English tongue."

"Make a note, Mary, next time you go shopping, and buy nothing that is
not 'from, only.' Proceed, Peter--and let us have a little less of your
English tongue."


or for the more legally minded, I offer this: 
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/foodlaw/processingsector/standardofidentity



*From:*rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Palincsar

*Sent:* Monday, November 25, 2013 3:40 PM
*To:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

On 11/25/2013 12:30 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:

I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should

like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a

condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar,

you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something

delicious, but it's not ketchup.


That is so not so.  There is in fact a federal standard of identity 
for ketchup, published in the Code of Federal Regulations, and here it is:


[Code of Federal Regulations]

[Title 21, Volume 2]

[Revised as of April 1, 2013]

[CITE: 21CFR155.194]



TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS

CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION

PART 155 -- CANNED VEGETABLES 
 



Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables

Sec. 155.194 Catsup.

(a)/Identity/ --(1)/Definition./ Catsup, ketchup, or catchup is**the 
food prepared from one or any combination of two or more of the 
following optional tomato ingredients:


(i) Tomato concentrate as defined in 155.191(a)(1), except that lemon 
juice, concentrated lemon juice, or safe and suitable organic acids 
may be used in quantities no greater than necessary to adjust the pH, 
and in compliance with 155.191(b).


(ii) The liquid derived from mature tomatoes of the red or reddish 
varieties/Lycopersicum esculentum/ P. Mill.


(iii) The liquid obtained from the residue from preparing such 
tomatoes for canning, consisting of peelings and cores with or without 
such tomatoes or pieces thereof.


(iv) The liquid obtained from the residue from partial extraction of 
juice from such tomatoes.


Such liquid is strained so as to exclude skins, seeds, and other 
coarse or hard substances in accordance with current good 
manufacturing practice. Prior to straining, food-grade hydrochloric 
acid may be added to the tomato material in an amount to obtain a pH 
no lower than 2.0. Such acid is then neutralized with food-grade 
sodium hydroxide so that the treated tomato material is restored to a 
pH of 4.2+/-0.2. The final composition of the food may be adjusted by 
concentration and/or by the addition of water. The food may contain 
salt (sodium chloride formed during acid neutralization shall be 
considered added salt) and is seasoned with ingredients as specified 
in paragraph (a)(2) of this section. The food is preserved by heat 
sterilization (canning), refrigeration, or freezing. When sealed in a 
container to be held at ambient temperatures, it is so processed by 
heat, before or after sealing, as to prevent spoilage.


(2)/Ingredients./ One or any combination of two or more of the 
following safe and suitable ingredients in each of the following 
categories is added to the tomato ingredients specified in paragraph 
(a)(1) of this section:


(i) Vinegars.

(ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if define

Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Philip Williamson]

When we lived in Oregon, we'd go to Little Big Burger when we were in 
Portland. They served Portland Ketchup, which might fit your needs: 
http://www.madeinoregon.com/Natural-Ketchup-Portland-Ketchup-Company.html; 
my kid didn't like it, we actually took Heinz with us when we went. 

Now we go to a place called Remy's, in Santa Rosa, and get a big side of 
fries with three dipping condiments (ranch, bbq, 1000 island) in little 
bowls. Best fries ever; creamy on the inside, perfectly crisp on the 
outside. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:45:38 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Eric -- would you share your recipe? The few recipes I found online -- no 
> cooking, use tomato sauce in a can and add a few taste enhancers -- looked, 
> well, not appetizing -- to my very untrained cook's eye, I must add.
>
> Bikes: I like a big plate of french fries with good ketchup after a long 
> bike ride. And it's another, lesser Lent for us now, so satisfying 
> non-animal-food is in demand.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:41 AM, EGNolan  >wrote:
>
>> We make our own. The only sugar is that that comes directly from our 
>> tomatoes, which is a fair amount. Most fruits have plentya sugar on their 
>> own, so adding isn't necessary, but as Anne mentioned, taking away all 
>> sugar from anything fruit based would be taking away the fruit essence. 
>> Ketchup, catsup, catch-up, whatever you call it, isn't terribly difficult 
>> to make and it keeps for quite a while. If you're into making yer own 
>> fries, I say make yer own catchumep and enjoy w/ a nice Pale Ale, like 
>> Dale's or sumthin'.
>>  
>> Just to get this back on topic, when my son rides his bike ahead of me, 
>> he likes to shout "Catch up, mustard." After 2 1/2 years of this joke, I 
>> still smile everytime he says it.
>>  
>> Best,
>> Eric
>> Indpls 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com .
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>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
> Certified Resume Writer
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> patric...@resumespecialties.com 
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>
> Albuquerque, NM
>  

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[RBW] Re: Recommendations for a front derailer on a compact double?

[Garth]

I have a Sun Tour Superbe FD I could sell you if you're interested . $33 
shipped if in USA.   These have a bit shorter cage than most FD's, so 
they'd work well with a 48/34.   Or really ... any Shimano 7/8/9 sp. or Sun 
tour road double should work fine. Regardless, You do not need a mtb triple 
. 


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RE: [RBW] Re: New (to me) Bombadil build

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Well, I bought the chainring special.  But yeah, like somebody else I know, I 
have this parts problem

BTW, the Bruce Gordon cantis look beautiful in the flesh, and they stop at 
least as well and as smoothly as Paul Neo-Retros, which have been my favorites 
for a long time.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Lindsay
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 3:26 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: New (to me) Bombadil build

You had THAT BUILD just laying around?  Shut the front door!

I'm absolutely going to get a set of those Bruce Gordon Cantilever brakes for 
my inventory.  I already have the idea

On Monday, November 25, 2013 12:20:55 PM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
So a number of folks on this list (including me) were apparently looking at 
this blue-green Bombadil frame/fork on the 'bay a few weeks ago, and I had the 
least self-control of all of that sub-group, so I ended up with a nice-looking 
Bombadil frame (a little rough paint, but otherwise sound) and no particular 
plan what to do with it, except I was going to try to do a Tapebubba build - 
entirely from parts on hand.  Finished last night, and was going to ride it 
this morning and take some pics, but it was under 20 degrees here at 5:30, and 
that's too cold for recreational rides for me.  So here's a pic of the finished 
build in my shop: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/11052561793/
  I'll post some in the wild as soon as the temp rises (or I get a pair of big 
boy pants to ride in!).

Really, the idea for this was stolen from another Bomba owner, pic here: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beardedpeter/3870914885/in/pool-bombadil/
 one of the coolest Bombadil builds ever.

Build list:
Wheelset (stolen from another bike):  Ghisallo beechwood rims, Campy front 
(drilled and modified by Peter Weigle), White Industries ENO eccentric on the 
rear.
Cream Grand Bois Hetres
17/19 White Industries DOS ENO freewheel (17t fixed cog on flip side)
Shimano BB (needed 127mm to get the narrow Q crankset on the correct chainline)
Stronglight 49 crankset
Bespoke Chainrings 44t Solida Cats replica chainring
Phil Wood CHP pedals, with VO leather covered toeclips and Christophe straps
Nitto Lugged seatpost
Brooks Select B-17
Nitto 200mm reach Bullmoose bars/stem
Brooks grips
Paul Canti levers
Bruce Gordon polished "Pointy" canti brakes
Cork brake pads to preserve the rims, and introduce a sense of adventure to the 
"speed modulation" process
Nitto Mini-Front rack
Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Lil' Loafer
Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Country Bag

Still thinking about whether to install an old Dur-Alum chainring and/or 
fenders (I have an old set of VO Zeppelin fenders, painted roughly the same 
color as the tires).  Anybody have a view?



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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Philip Williamson]

Fat free half and half - I fell for that once (no idea why, it's not my 
style). Neither cream NOR milk! Half carageenan, half water? 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:30:30 AM UTC-8, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should 
> like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a 
> condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar, 
> you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something 
> delicious, but it's not ketchup. 
>
> (Also, fat-free half & half: Half what, and half what? It's a mystery to 
> me.) 
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Deacon Patrick 
> > 
> wrote: 
> > Anne, 
> > 
> > Actually, once our family stopped eating sugar (and other sweeteners) 
> all 
> > the time in most everything (seriously, look at the labels. If it's 
> > processed, it has some form of sugar in it, for starters), the natural 
> > flavors of real food wake up and are far more lively. Ketchup is a 
> sauce, 
> > and has no need for sweetener. 
> > 
> > With abandon, 
> > Patrick 
> > 
> > 
> > On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:10:10 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote: 
> >> 
> >> I'm trying to understand what you want in the flavor here, Hugh. I can 
> >> understand trying to avoid high fructose corn syrup, and I also can 
> >> understand dialing down the sugar somewhat,  but isn't trying to have 
> >> unsweetened ketchup like having a chocolate bar without chocolate? 
> >> Ketchup is a fruit butter, so it's flavored with sugar (and a lot of 
> >> it) and vinegar (and a lot of it) to make it sweet and sour. If you 
> >> take out the sugar, you have sour. Sour is good, but in what way would 
> >> it be like ketchup? 
> >> 
> >> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM, hsmitham  wrote: 
> >> > Patrick, 
> >> > 
> >> > Don't know if you have Trader Joe's out there but they sell an 
> organic 
> >> > ketchup that has 2 grams of sugar per table spoon like Deacon I'd 
> like 
> >> > none. 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> -- Anne Paulson 
> >> 
> >> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an 
> > email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to 
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>
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> -- Anne Paulson 
>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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[RBW] Re: New (to me) Bombadil build

[Deacon Patrick]

Wow. Those are some impressive leavings from your shop floor you put on 
there! Beautiful build.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, November 25, 2013 1:20:55 PM UTC-7, Pudge wrote:
>
>  So a number of folks on this list (including me) were apparently looking 
> at this blue-green Bombadil frame/fork on the ‘bay a few weeks ago, and I 
> had the least self-control of all of that sub-group, so I ended up with a 
> nice-looking Bombadil frame (a little rough paint, but otherwise sound) and 
> no particular plan what to do with it, except I was going to try to do a 
> Tapebubba build – entirely from parts on hand.  Finished last night, and 
> was going to ride it this morning and take some pics, but it was under 20 
> degrees here at 5:30, and that’s too cold for recreational rides for me.  
> So here’s a pic of the finished build in my shop: 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/11052561793/
>   
> I’ll post some in the wild as soon as the temp rises (or I get a pair of 
> big boy pants to ride in!).
>
>  
>
> Really, the idea for this was stolen from another Bomba owner, pic here: 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/beardedpeter/3870914885/in/pool-bombadil/one
>  of the coolest Bombadil builds ever.  
>
>  
>
> Build list:
>
> Wheelset (stolen from another bike):  Ghisallo beechwood rims, Campy front 
> (drilled and modified by Peter Weigle), White Industries ENO eccentric on 
> the rear.
>
> Cream Grand Bois Hetres
>
> 17/19 White Industries DOS ENO freewheel (17t fixed cog on flip side)
>
> Shimano BB (needed 127mm to get the narrow Q crankset on the correct 
> chainline)
>
> Stronglight 49 crankset
>
> Bespoke Chainrings 44t Solida Cats replica chainring
>
> Phil Wood CHP pedals, with VO leather covered toeclips and Christophe 
> straps
>
> Nitto Lugged seatpost
>
> Brooks Select B-17
>
> Nitto 200mm reach Bullmoose bars/stem
>
> Brooks grips
>
> Paul Canti levers
>
> Bruce Gordon polished “Pointy” canti brakes
>
> Cork brake pads to preserve the rims, and introduce a sense of adventure 
> to the “speed modulation” process 
>
> Nitto Mini-Front rack
>
> Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Lil’ Loafer
>
> Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Country Bag
>
>  
>
> Still thinking about whether to install an old Dur-Alum chainring and/or 
> fenders (I have an old set of VO Zeppelin fenders, painted roughly the same 
> color as the tires).  Anybody have a view?
>
>  
>
>  
>  
> --
>  
> 
>
> To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you 
> that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice 
> contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and 
> cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under 
> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions 
> or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any 
> tax-related matters addressed herein.
> 
> 
>
> This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the 
> addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or 
> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
> email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
> copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. 
> If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 
> 735-3000 and permanently delete the original email (and any copy of any 
> email) and any printout thereof.
>
> Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their 
> professional qualifications will be provided upon request.
> 
> ==
>  
>
>

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RE: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I always hesitate to disagree with Steve, but if we're going to rely on federal 
regulators to tell us what ketchup is, we're in trouble.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve Palincsar
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 3:40 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

On 11/25/2013 12:30 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:

I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should

like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a

condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar,

you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something

delicious, but it's not ketchup.

That is so not so.  There is in fact a federal standard of identity for 
ketchup, published in the Code of Federal Regulations, and here it is:
[Code of Federal Regulations]

[Title 21, Volume 2]

[Revised as of April 1, 2013]

[CITE: 21CFR155.194]



TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS


CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES


SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION



PART 155 -- CANNED 
VEGETABLES

Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables
Sec. 155.194 Catsup.



(a)Identity --(1)Definition. Catsup, ketchup, or catchup is the food prepared 
from one or any combination of two or more of the following optional tomato 
ingredients:

(i) Tomato concentrate as defined in 155.191(a)(1), except that lemon juice, 
concentrated lemon juice, or safe and suitable organic acids may be used in 
quantities no greater than necessary to adjust the pH, and in compliance with 
155.191(b).

(ii) The liquid derived from mature tomatoes of the red or reddish 
varietiesLycopersicum esculentum P. Mill.

(iii) The liquid obtained from the residue from preparing such tomatoes for 
canning, consisting of peelings and cores with or without such tomatoes or 
pieces thereof.

(iv) The liquid obtained from the residue from partial extraction of juice from 
such tomatoes.

Such liquid is strained so as to exclude skins, seeds, and other coarse or hard 
substances in accordance with current good manufacturing practice. Prior to 
straining, food-grade hydrochloric acid may be added to the tomato material in 
an amount to obtain a pH no lower than 2.0. Such acid is then neutralized with 
food-grade sodium hydroxide so that the treated tomato material is restored to 
a pH of 4.2+/-0.2. The final composition of the food may be adjusted by 
concentration and/or by the addition of water. The food may contain salt 
(sodium chloride formed during acid neutralization shall be considered added 
salt) and is seasoned with ingredients as specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this 
section. The food is preserved by heat sterilization (canning), refrigeration, 
or freezing. When sealed in a container to be held at ambient temperatures, it 
is so processed by heat, before or after sealing, as to prevent spoilage.

(2)Ingredients. One or any combination of two or more of the following safe and 
suitable ingredients in each of the following categories is added to the tomato 
ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section:

(i) Vinegars.

(ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in part 168 
of this chapter shall be as defined therein.

(iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.

(3)Labeling. (i) The name of the food is "Catsup," "Ketchup," or "Catchup."

(ii) The following shall be included as part of the name or in close proximity 
to the name of the food:

(a ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may be, 
"residual tomato material from canning" if the optional tomato ingredient 
specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iii) of this section or tomato concentrate 
containing the ingredient specified in 155.191(a)(1)(ii) is present.

(b ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may be, 
"residual tomato material from partial extraction of juice" if the optional 
tomato ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iv) of this section or tomato 
concentrate containing the ingredient specified in 155.191(a)(1)(iii) is 
present.

(iii)Label declaration. Each of the ingredients used in the food shall be 
declared on the label as required by the applicable sections of parts 101 and 
130 of this chapter; except that the name "tomato concentrate" may be used in 
lieu of the names "tomato puree," "tomato pulp," or "tomato paste" and when 
tomato concentrates are used, the labeling requirements of 155.191(a)(3)(ii)(a 
) and (a)(3)(ii)(b ) do not apply.

(b)Quality. (1) The standard of quality for catsup is as follows: The 
consistency of the finished food is such that its flow is not more than 14 
centimeters in 30 seconds at 20 deg. C when tested in a Bostwick Consistometer 
in the following manner: Check temperature of mixture and adjust to 20+/-1 d

Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Steve Palincsar]

On 11/25/2013 12:30 PM, Anne Paulson wrote:

I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should
like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a
condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar,
you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something
delicious, but it's not ketchup.


That is so not so.  There is in fact a federal standard of identity for 
ketchup, published in the Code of Federal Regulations, and here it is:


[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 21, Volume 2]
[Revised as of April 1, 2013]
[CITE: 21CFR155.194]




TITLE 21--FOOD AND DRUGS

CHAPTER I--FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES

SUBCHAPTER B--FOOD FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION

PART 155 -- CANNED VEGETABLES 
 



Subpart B--Requirements for Specific Standardized Canned Vegetables

Sec. 155.194 Catsup.

(a)/Identity/ --(1)/Definition./ Catsup, ketchup, or catchup is**the 
food prepared from one or any combination of two or more of the 
following optional tomato ingredients:


(i) Tomato concentrate as defined in 155.191(a)(1), except that lemon 
juice, concentrated lemon juice, or safe and suitable organic acids may 
be used in quantities no greater than necessary to adjust the pH, and in 
compliance with 155.191(b).


(ii) The liquid derived from mature tomatoes of the red or reddish 
varieties/Lycopersicum esculentum/ P. Mill.


(iii) The liquid obtained from the residue from preparing such tomatoes 
for canning, consisting of peelings and cores with or without such 
tomatoes or pieces thereof.


(iv) The liquid obtained from the residue from partial extraction of 
juice from such tomatoes.


Such liquid is strained so as to exclude skins, seeds, and other coarse 
or hard substances in accordance with current good manufacturing 
practice. Prior to straining, food-grade hydrochloric acid may be added 
to the tomato material in an amount to obtain a pH no lower than 2.0. 
Such acid is then neutralized with food-grade sodium hydroxide so that 
the treated tomato material is restored to a pH of 4.2+/-0.2. The final 
composition of the food may be adjusted by concentration and/or by the 
addition of water. The food may contain salt (sodium chloride formed 
during acid neutralization shall be considered added salt) and is 
seasoned with ingredients as specified in paragraph (a)(2) of this 
section. The food is preserved by heat sterilization (canning), 
refrigeration, or freezing. When sealed in a container to be held at 
ambient temperatures, it is so processed by heat, before or after 
sealing, as to prevent spoilage.


(2)/Ingredients./ One or any combination of two or more of the following 
safe and suitable ingredients in each of the following categories is 
added to the tomato ingredients specified in paragraph (a)(1) of this 
section:


(i) Vinegars.

(ii) Nutritive carbohydrate sweeteners. Such sweeteners if defined in 
part 168 of this chapter shall be as defined therein.


(iii) Spices, flavoring, onions, or garlic.

(3)/Labeling./ (i) The name of the food is "Catsup," "Ketchup," or 
"Catchup."


(ii) The following shall be included as part of the name or in close 
proximity to the name of the food:


(/a/ ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may 
be, "residual tomato material from canning" if the optional tomato 
ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iii) of this section or tomato 
concentrate containing the ingredient specified in 155.191(a)(1)(ii) is 
present.


(/b/ ) The statement "Made from" or "Made in part from," as the case may 
be, "residual tomato material from partial extraction of juice" if the 
optional tomato ingredient specified in paragraph (a)(1)(iv) of this 
section or tomato concentrate containing the ingredient specified in 
155.191(a)(1)(iii) is present.


(iii)/Label declaration./ Each of the ingredients used in the food shall 
be declared on the label as required by the applicable sections of parts 
101 and 130 of this chapter; except that the name "tomato concentrate" 
may be used in lieu of the names "tomato puree," "tomato pulp," or 
"tomato paste" and when tomato concentrates are used, the labeling 
requirements of 155.191(a)(3)(ii)(/a/ ) and (a)(3)(ii)(/b/ ) do not apply.


(b)/Quality./ (1) The standard of quality for catsup is as follows: The 
consistency of the finished food is such that its flow is not more than 
14 centimeters in 30 seconds at 20 deg. C when tested in a Bostwick 
Consistometer in the following manner: Check temperature of mixture and 
adjust to 20+/-1 deg. C. The trough must also be at a temperature close 
to 20 deg. C. Adjust end-to-end level of Bostwick Consistometer by means 
of the spirit level placed in trough of instrument. Side-to-side level 
may be adjusted by means of the built-in spirit level. Transfer sample 
to the dry sample chamber of the Bostwick Consistometer. F

Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Bill Lindsay]

Tinker

I like the horizontal dropout to allow for correcting chain tension on a 
single speed.  Then, with the wheel in the right position, you dial in the 
fender.  Now that's fixed "forever".  You subsequently remove the wheel by 
removing the bolts from the hub and the wheel drops out.  

On Monday, November 25, 2013 12:35:20 PM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> How would you adjust chain tension? Eccentric BB? White Industries 
> Eccentric ENO hub?
> I'd vote for the BB, to let people run any wheels they want or have. 
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:18:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> I'm not in the market for a single speed, but if I had a single speed, it 
>> would likely have fenders.  If it had fenders, it would likely have correct 
>> or close to correct fender line.  As such it would be impossible to remove 
>> the rear wheel either rearward with track-like dropouts or forward with 
>> horizontal road type dropouts.  
>>
>> So, if it were me, I would simply run a good, MUSA rear hub that is 
>> bolted on with bolts, not nutted on with nuts.  The offering from Phil and 
>> Paul and White Industries and Chris King all have these allen bolts. 
>>  Remove the two allen bolts entirely and the wheel drops out of the drop 
>> out.  No more problem.  You can have perfect fender line, and can remove 
>> your rear wheel without deflating it.  It will add between 30 and 60 
>> seconds to the total amount of time it takes to fix your flat.   
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>>>
>>> I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed 
>>> gear, so I prefer the track ends.
>>> I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To 
>>> change the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to 
>>> free up the fenders. 
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> www.biketinker.com
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:

  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden 
 fenders, which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy 
 removal.  Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as 
 functional as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, 
 and with a mudflap, they’re not bad.

  
  



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RE: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

+1.  That's the only thing I think I'd change about my QB

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Philip Williamson
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 3:35 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

How would you adjust chain tension? Eccentric BB? White Industries Eccentric 
ENO hub?
I'd vote for the BB, to let people run any wheels they want or have.

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:18:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
I'm not in the market for a single speed, but if I had a single speed, it would 
likely have fenders.  If it had fenders, it would likely have correct or close 
to correct fender line.  As such it would be impossible to remove the rear 
wheel either rearward with track-like dropouts or forward with horizontal road 
type dropouts.

So, if it were me, I would simply run a good, MUSA rear hub that is bolted on 
with bolts, not nutted on with nuts.  The offering from Phil and Paul and White 
Industries and Chris King all have these allen bolts.  Remove the two allen 
bolts entirely and the wheel drops out of the drop out.  No more problem.  You 
can have perfect fender line, and can remove your rear wheel without deflating 
it.  It will add between 30 and 60 seconds to the total amount of time it takes 
to fix your flat.

On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed gear, 
so I prefer the track ends.
I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To change the 
wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to free up the 
fenders.

Philip
www.biketinker.com


On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden fenders, which 
bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy removal.  Of course, 
there are always trade-offs - such fenders aren't as functional as a good 
plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, and with a mudflap, 
they're not bad.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Philip Williamson]

How would you adjust chain tension? Eccentric BB? White Industries 
Eccentric ENO hub?
I'd vote for the BB, to let people run any wheels they want or have. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com

On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:18:49 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> I'm not in the market for a single speed, but if I had a single speed, it 
> would likely have fenders.  If it had fenders, it would likely have correct 
> or close to correct fender line.  As such it would be impossible to remove 
> the rear wheel either rearward with track-like dropouts or forward with 
> horizontal road type dropouts.  
>
> So, if it were me, I would simply run a good, MUSA rear hub that is bolted 
> on with bolts, not nutted on with nuts.  The offering from Phil and Paul 
> and White Industries and Chris King all have these allen bolts.  Remove the 
> two allen bolts entirely and the wheel drops out of the drop out.  No more 
> problem.  You can have perfect fender line, and can remove your rear wheel 
> without deflating it.  It will add between 30 and 60 seconds to the total 
> amount of time it takes to fix your flat.   
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>>
>> I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed 
>> gear, so I prefer the track ends.
>> I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To change 
>> the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to free 
>> up the fenders. 
>>
>> Philip
>> www.biketinker.com
>>  
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>>>
>>>  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden fenders, 
>>> which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy removal.  
>>> Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as functional 
>>> as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, and with a 
>>> mudflap, they’re not bad.
>>>
>>>  
>>>  
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Winter Delaware Water Gap trip

[Paul Germain]

Michael, as Anne says, no bikes are allowed on the actual AT trails, but the 
trail does at times come into small towns like this one (Delaware Water Gap 
township). In this case, it allows the hikers to cross the river on the Rt.611 
bridge pedestrian path and to touch base with civilization, recoup, restock 
food, etc. My experience on the trail is that it would be largely unridable, 
even on a mountain bike. No piece of cake. Nothing like the groomed trail I 
rode back on Day 2 (the McDade Recreational Trail).


If you saw the PDF map of the park, the AT skirts down the eastern side and 
generally snakes down (up) linked state & nat'l forests or parks along the 
spine of the Appalachian Mountains form Maine to Georgia.


Down in southwestern Va., we have the little town of Damascus, where the 
Appalachian Trail and the TransAm Bike Route 76 intersect.


Paul Germain
Midlothian, Va.




Michael  Nov 24 03:09PM -0800  


> Thanks Paul! Looks like a nice ride!
 
I wonder if one can ride the whole Appalacian trail. I saw that picture of 
that sign "Maine to Georgia". Sounds like east coast camping/riding.

 

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[RBW] Re: New (to me) Bombadil build

[Bill Lindsay]

You had *THAT BUILD *just laying around?  Shut the front door!

I'm absolutely going to get a set of those Bruce Gordon Cantilever brakes 
for my inventory.  I already have the idea

On Monday, November 25, 2013 12:20:55 PM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>
>  So a number of folks on this list (including me) were apparently looking 
> at this blue-green Bombadil frame/fork on the ‘bay a few weeks ago, and I 
> had the least self-control of all of that sub-group, so I ended up with a 
> nice-looking Bombadil frame (a little rough paint, but otherwise sound) and 
> no particular plan what to do with it, except I was going to try to do a 
> Tapebubba build – entirely from parts on hand.  Finished last night, and 
> was going to ride it this morning and take some pics, but it was under 20 
> degrees here at 5:30, and that’s too cold for recreational rides for me.  
> So here’s a pic of the finished build in my shop: 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/11052561793/
>   
> I’ll post some in the wild as soon as the temp rises (or I get a pair of 
> big boy pants to ride in!).
>
>  
>
> Really, the idea for this was stolen from another Bomba owner, pic here: 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/beardedpeter/3870914885/in/pool-bombadil/one
>  of the coolest Bombadil builds ever.  
>
>  
>
> Build list:
>
> Wheelset (stolen from another bike):  Ghisallo beechwood rims, Campy front 
> (drilled and modified by Peter Weigle), White Industries ENO eccentric on 
> the rear.
>
> Cream Grand Bois Hetres
>
> 17/19 White Industries DOS ENO freewheel (17t fixed cog on flip side)
>
> Shimano BB (needed 127mm to get the narrow Q crankset on the correct 
> chainline)
>
> Stronglight 49 crankset
>
> Bespoke Chainrings 44t Solida Cats replica chainring
>
> Phil Wood CHP pedals, with VO leather covered toeclips and Christophe 
> straps
>
> Nitto Lugged seatpost
>
> Brooks Select B-17
>
> Nitto 200mm reach Bullmoose bars/stem
>
> Brooks grips
>
> Paul Canti levers
>
> Bruce Gordon polished “Pointy” canti brakes
>
> Cork brake pads to preserve the rims, and introduce a sense of adventure 
> to the “speed modulation” process 
>
> Nitto Mini-Front rack
>
> Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Lil’ Loafer
>
> Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Country Bag
>
>  
>
> Still thinking about whether to install an old Dur-Alum chainring and/or 
> fenders (I have an old set of VO Zeppelin fenders, painted roughly the same 
> color as the tires).  Anybody have a view?
>
>  
>
>  
>  
> --
>  
> 
>
> To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you 
> that, unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice 
> contained in this message was not intended or written to be used, and 
> cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under 
> the Internal Revenue Code or applicable state or local tax law provisions 
> or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any 
> tax-related matters addressed herein.
> 
> 
>
> This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the 
> addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged and/or 
> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this 
> email, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or 
> copying of this email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. 
> If you receive this email in error please immediately notify me at (212) 
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>
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[RBW] New (to me) Bombadil build

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

So a number of folks on this list (including me) were apparently looking at 
this blue-green Bombadil frame/fork on the 'bay a few weeks ago, and I had the 
least self-control of all of that sub-group, so I ended up with a nice-looking 
Bombadil frame (a little rough paint, but otherwise sound) and no particular 
plan what to do with it, except I was going to try to do a Tapebubba build - 
entirely from parts on hand.  Finished last night, and was going to ride it 
this morning and take some pics, but it was under 20 degrees here at 5:30, and 
that's too cold for recreational rides for me.  So here's a pic of the finished 
build in my shop: http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/11052561793/  I'll 
post some in the wild as soon as the temp rises (or I get a pair of big boy 
pants to ride in!).

Really, the idea for this was stolen from another Bomba owner, pic here: 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/beardedpeter/3870914885/in/pool-bombadil/ one of 
the coolest Bombadil builds ever.

Build list:
Wheelset (stolen from another bike):  Ghisallo beechwood rims, Campy front 
(drilled and modified by Peter Weigle), White Industries ENO eccentric on the 
rear.
Cream Grand Bois Hetres
17/19 White Industries DOS ENO freewheel (17t fixed cog on flip side)
Shimano BB (needed 127mm to get the narrow Q crankset on the correct chainline)
Stronglight 49 crankset
Bespoke Chainrings 44t Solida Cats replica chainring
Phil Wood CHP pedals, with VO leather covered toeclips and Christophe straps
Nitto Lugged seatpost
Brooks Select B-17
Nitto 200mm reach Bullmoose bars/stem
Brooks grips
Paul Canti levers
Bruce Gordon polished "Pointy" canti brakes
Cork brake pads to preserve the rims, and introduce a sense of adventure to the 
"speed modulation" process
Nitto Mini-Front rack
Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Lil' Loafer
Blue tweed Nigel Smythe Country Bag

Still thinking about whether to install an old Dur-Alum chainring and/or 
fenders (I have an old set of VO Zeppelin fenders, painted roughly the same 
color as the tires).  Anybody have a view?



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or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Bill Lindsay]

I humbly concede that point.  It is possible by luck to end up with both 
good fender line and easy wheel removal with horizontals, and it is 
similarly possible with track ends.  

My main point is that for the everybody else who is not so lucky, the 
universal solution for getting your wheel out from a perfect fender is to 
allow your rear wheel to "drop out".  That's one of the reasons why 
vertical dropouts are the thing to have on a derailer equipped bike, in my 
opinion.  For bikes that cannot have vertical dropouts, you can still 
easily make your rear wheel drop-out with a rear hub with removable bolts.  

What have your "erstwhile Honjos" become?  If they used to be Honjos, did 
they become SKF's?  Or perhaps you meant that they were formerly *yours*, 
not that they were formerly *Honjos*.  haha ;-)

On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:46:09 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> A good fender line is not at all impossible with horizontals. My erstwhile 
> Honjos looked perfect on the Curt and wheel removal was not a problem (32 
> mm tires). But I have to admit that this serendipity was just that -- by 
> chance.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Bill Lindsay 
> > wrote:
>
>> I'm not in the market for a single speed, but if I had a single speed, it 
>> would likely have fenders.  If it had fenders, it would likely have correct 
>> or close to correct fender line.  As such it would be impossible to remove 
>> the rear wheel either rearward with track-like dropouts or forward with 
>> horizontal road type dropouts.  
>>
>> So, if it were me, I would simply run a good, MUSA rear hub that is 
>> bolted on with bolts, not nutted on with nuts.  The offering from Phil and 
>> Paul and White Industries and Chris King all have these allen bolts. 
>>  Remove the two allen bolts entirely and the wheel drops out of the drop 
>> out.  No more problem.  You can have perfect fender line, and can remove 
>> your rear wheel without deflating it.  It will add between 30 and 60 
>> seconds to the total amount of time it takes to fix your flat.   
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>>
>>> I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed 
>>> gear, so I prefer the track ends.
>>> I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To 
>>> change the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to 
>>> free up the fenders. 
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> www.biketinker.com
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:

  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden 
 fenders, which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy 
 removal.  Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as 
 functional as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, 
 and with a mudflap, they’re not bad.

  
  

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Re: [RBW] Birthday Ride Report

[Addison Wilhite]

It is the Truckee.  Very near the state border between NV/CA.  Lots of good
fishing in the area.

Addison Wilhite
Educator - The Academy of Arts, Careers & Technology, Reno, Nevada (
http://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/)
Blogger - Reno Rambler (http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com)
Bicycle Advocate - Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian
Advisory Committee (
http://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html)


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:54 AM, Jim Bronson  wrote:

> Is that the Truckee River in the pics?
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Addison Wilhite  > wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Saturday was my bday and I went out for a pretty decent ride to
>> celebrate. Ok, I didn't ride my Riv AR but thought others might still enjoy
>> the pics of the sometimes rugged high desert terrain in these parts.  Enjoy:
>>
>>
>> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2013/11/birthday-rough-stuff-ride-report.html
>>
>> If you are curious, the bikes we were riding were my Gunnar Crosshairs,
>> and my friends were on their Kelly Cross and Fargo.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>> Addison Wilhite
>> Educator - The Academy of Arts, Careers & Technology, Reno, Nevada (
>> http://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/)
>> Blogger - Reno Rambler (http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com)
>> Bicycle Advocate - Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian
>> Advisory Committee (
>> http://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html)
>>
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>
>
> --
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>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Deacon Patrick]

I'd love the recipe too, Eric.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:16:06 AM UTC-7, EGNolan wrote:
>
> Patrick M- I'll get you the recipe once I've consulted my dear wife. I use 
> "we" a lot, when I should probably just say "my lovely wife." We usually 
> substitute our own tomatoes for canned, take out the added sugar, but may 
> use a paste. I'll get details for ya.
>  
> Patrick of the Deacon sort- I agree ADDING sugar to ketchup or chocolate 
> isn't necessary.Where I think we differ is that I don't worry about taking 
> the sugar out of my tomatoes for ketchup or taking it out of my 
> strawberries for jam. You can have unsweetened ketchup that still contains 
> some of the natural sugar from the tomatoes. 
>  
> All this talk has made me hungry, I think I'm gonna go eat my lunch now; 
> scrambled eggs w/ roasted peppers & onions on a bed of rice. No sugar 
> added, but I didn't fish any out either...
>  
> Best,
> Eric
> Indpls
>  
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: OT but brings a tear to my eye

[Tom Virgil]

Andy,

Thank you so much for this.  Michael Trimble is one special person. 
 Michael Brown is one very generous guy.

Best regards,


Tom

On Monday, November 25, 2013 4:53:53 AM UTC-8, ascpgh wrote:
>
> Awesome. You never realize the magnitude of power you can unleash in 
> simple kindness. 
>
> One locally from this year: A Bike for 
> Michael
>
> Andy Cheatham
> PIttsburgh
>
> On Saturday, November 23, 2013 11:26:32 PM UTC-5, Tom Virgil wrote:
>>
>> Redemption
>>
>> With best regards
>>
>> Tom
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Some 650b conversion pics

[Tim Gavin]

I also moved the brake tab to the back of the fork with a Sheldon's nut,
and it exacerbated the low mudflap issue.  It still doesn't drag on clean
pavement, but it makes me "Mr. Plow" in loose leaves.

Like I said, I just take the flap off during leaf season.  It comes off in
seconds; just push the central pin out with the smallest hex on your multi
tool.  Stows in my luggage, so I can put it on quick if rain breaks out.


> A 650b conversion not something that you could just go down to your local
> LBS and ask them to do without getting a few blank stares.  Well if they're
> not of the Rivendell mindset anyway ;)
>

That's true, but I get blank stares with all my bikes at the LBS.  They're
all lugged steel, and all have my own goofy custom touches.

However, I love the simplicity of the conversion.  With the fenders off, I
can swap wheels and brake calipers in 10 minutes or so, and go back to 700c
any time.  I have a 7 speed Phil FW hub on my 700c wheels, and a 9 speed
cassette on my 650b wheelset.  Silver friction shifters don't care.

Tim

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Re: [RBW] Re: mechanical issues

[Perry]

Grease everything. Then grease it again. Only this time, put your heart into it 
because you didn't use enough the first time. That's my philosophy, and dang! 
It works for me the same way Paleo works for Patrick. ;)

Then there's this:

To grease or not to grease? | Off The Beaten Path
"So for our René Herse cranks, we recommend that you lightly grease the crank 
spindle. Also grease the treads of the bolts. Then tighten the bolts to 25 Nm. 
That is it. If you like, you can check after your first ride that the bolts are 
tight. Thereafter, leave them alone."

http://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/to-grease-or-not-to-grease/

• Perry

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Re: [RBW] Birthday Ride Report

[Jim Bronson]

Is that the Truckee River in the pics?


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 7:29 AM, Addison Wilhite
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Saturday was my bday and I went out for a pretty decent ride to celebrate.
> Ok, I didn't ride my Riv AR but thought others might still enjoy the pics
> of the sometimes rugged high desert terrain in these parts.  Enjoy:
>
>
> http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com/2013/11/birthday-rough-stuff-ride-report.html
>
> If you are curious, the bikes we were riding were my Gunnar Crosshairs,
> and my friends were on their Kelly Cross and Fargo.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Addison Wilhite
> Educator - The Academy of Arts, Careers & Technology, Reno, Nevada (
> http://www.washoecountyschools.org/aact/)
> Blogger - Reno Rambler (http://reno-rambler.blogspot.com)
> Bicycle Advocate - Regional Transportation Commission, Bicycle Pedestrian
> Advisory Committee (
> http://www.rtcwashoe.com/public-transportation-22-124.html)
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Some 650b conversion pics

[Jim Bronson]

I can attest that so far it's working fine with 170 cranks, and without
putting on the 38mm tires I bought.  I didn't scrape on a uturn on a narrow
road while pedaling, and I would never pedal on a corner with a lot of bike
lean in it.  So I think it's fine so long as you're mindful of what you're
doing, and clearly anyone who would convert their bike to 650b is probably
very mindful of what they're doing.

A 650b conversion not something that you could just go down to your local
LBS and ask them to do without getting a few blank stares.  Well if they're
not of the Rivendell mindset anyway ;)


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:46 AM, Jim Cloud  wrote:

> As the site that you reference indicates, Rivendells with a 8 cm (80mm)
> drop and 325mm radius tires only have a bottom bracket clearance of 9 1/2 "
> - "which is very low for anything longer than probably 155mm cranks":.
>
> Tim's post indicates that his bike doesn't have clearance for tires larger
> than 650Bx38mm, this is probably the same for my bike and most other early
> Rivendell Road Standard bikes with a 80mm drop bottom bracket.  In my
> opinion, the success of a 650B conversion with these bikes would be
> conditional on the length of the crank arms (and choice of tires).
> Anything more than 170mm is probably not very advisable, and perhaps 165mm
> would be a better option.  The largest radius tires that will fit between
> the chainstays ( approximately 38mm) would also be more practical.
>
> Most of the 700c conversions to 650B are bikes that had bottom bracket
> drops of 65mm-70mm.  Obviously, when Grant originally designed the
> Waterford era Rivendell Road Standards he was biased to a lower bottom
> bracket which he preferred for handling.  The bikes were never envisioned
> for a 650B conversion (obviously, since the French 650B tire was almost
> defunct in that period).  I still think a Rivendell Road Standard
> conversion is possible and may provide satisfaction to the owner, but
> clearance of the pedals may be an issue for care while cycling (pedaling
> through a tight curve is probably not advisable).
>
> Jim
>
>
> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 8:04:52 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>>
>> On 11/24/2013 09:12 PM, Jim Cloud wrote:
>> > The early models of the Rivendell Road were designed for a 700x28c
>> > tire size,  I don't believe you would be able to fit a 650x42b size
>> > tire between the chainstays of those particular bikes (I also own an
>> > original 1996 model of the Road Standard).
>>
>> Don't know about a 42mm tire, but the waterford-era Riv Road is on the
>> list of known-to-work conversions on the freewebs 650B site:
>> http://650b.webs.com/conversions.htm
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Some 650b conversion pics

[Jim Bronson]

The more you describe it, the more I think that my custom is closest in
geometry to those early Riv Road Standards.  Being the 2nd owner, I don't
know much about the history, but the gist of it was that he was probably
too tall for an off the shelf Road Standard at 6'5".  I'm a little taller
at 6'7" but I think the frame works well for me for the most part.

At any rate I had the same issues with the Longboards that you mentioned,
the front mudflap tended to catch and drag and the front tip of the rear
fender is a bit squeezed in the chainstays.

Although, I did mount the brake tab behind the fork, which I think
magnified the mudflap dragging issues.  I will be moving it to the front of
the fork the next time the bike is in the stand.  Hopefully that will help
some.  If not I might trim it up a bit.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:07 AM, Tim Gavin
wrote:

> The Waterford era ('94-97ish) Riv Road Standards do work for 650b
> conversion, but they're not ideal.  Mine is an early '97, with a max of
> 700x28x tires (less than 2mm of clearance above Ruffy Tuffy's)
>
> I converted mine from 700x28c to 650x38b, which dropped the bike 9mm (lost
> 19mm of rim, gained back 10mm of tire).  I have scraped the outside edge of
> the pedal once or twice, but I usually drag a heel before I drag a pedal.
>  A rare and avoidable occurrence, either way.
>
> 650x38b seems to be the maximum tire on this frame, as both fork blades
> and chainstays are too tight for 42mm Hetres, as far as I can see
> (currently running 38mm Lierre).
>
> This conversion makes room for P45 Longboard fenders, but the front tip of
> the rear fender is squeezed a bit in the chainstays.  Also, the long
> mudflap becomes a big leaf scoop; I take it off on non-rainy days.  I'll
> probably add the shorty mudflap to my next Riv order.
>
> Tim
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 2:19 AM, Philip Williamson <
> philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 23mm 700c = 42mm 650B;
>> 32mm 700c = 50mm 650B
>>
>> http://www.biketinker.com/2011/bike-resources/equivalent-bicycle-wheel-diameter-with-different-tires/
>>
>>
>> I had a nice chat today with a fellow at the bike shop (an employee) who
>> had put 650B GIGANTIC knobbies on his Surly 1x1, which was designed for 559
>> tires. I was at the shop scaling back the gravel roadster's tire size in
>> order to go tubeless (no direct connection of size to tubeless, just that
>> the kevlar bead Supremes I have are smaller than my wire bead Big Apples).
>>
>> Philip
>> www.biketinker.com
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 5:29:00 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Isn't the sole point of this conversion exercise that you can use
>>> *fatter* tires, and significantly fatter tires? So, while you might lose
>>> some bb height, you won't lose nearly the whole 19 mm ?
>>>
>>> A 622X23 mm tire is about 26 1/2" in diameter. A 559 X 1" tire is about
>>> 24" in diameter. A 559X35 mm tire is about 25" in diameter. A 559 X 50 tire
>>> is about 26" in diameter. I cite these only as being directly or indirectly
>>> relevant sizes known to me by experience.
>>>
>>> Thus, if you went from a 700C X 25 to a 650B X 42, which seems common,
>>> wouldn't you gain back some 10 to 15 mm?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 5:33 PM, dougP  wrote:
>>>
  Jim:

 So you took a 700c wheeled bike & converted to 650b?  Ignoring the
 tires for the moment, doesn't that lower everything 19 mm?  What effect
 does it have on the handling?  I've read about picking a wheel size &
 designing a bike around that, so this seems a radical change.  OTH, people
 have been converting 80s era bikes to 650 with good result.  How did you
 know this was going to work?

 dougP

 On Thursday, November 21, 2013 12:33:39 PM UTC-8, Jim Bronson wrote:
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/110759113894226395434/albums/
> 5948811384486030177
>
> Hopefully link works.  Set to public.
>
> Cream SKS Long boards are on the way from Rivendell.  But the rest of
> it is mostly complete.  Yes, I realize the saddle looks terrible, but it
> still works ;)
>
> New Components
> Handspun 650b wheelset synergy/deore LX, front dynohub
> 11-30 HG50 cassette 9sp
> SRAM PC971 chain
> Sugino XD600 46-36-26
> UN-55 bottom bracket 68x113
> DuraAce BS77 9 speed bar ends
> Tektro R559 brakes
> VP Pedals
> Kneesavers
> Bar tape
> Cables
>
> Reused
> Frame
> Fork
> Handlebars
> Tektro brake levers
> Stem
> Saddle
> Seatpost
> Campy Chorus polished rear derailer
> Campy Racing -T polished front derailer
> Electronic goodies (not mounted in pics)
> Topeak Trunk bag (not mounted in pics)
> Bento bag
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Patrick Moore]

A good fender line is not at all impossible with horizontals. My erstwhile
Honjos looked perfect on the Curt and wheel removal was not a problem (32
mm tires). But I have to admit that this serendipity was just that -- by
chance.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I'm not in the market for a single speed, but if I had a single speed, it
> would likely have fenders.  If it had fenders, it would likely have correct
> or close to correct fender line.  As such it would be impossible to remove
> the rear wheel either rearward with track-like dropouts or forward with
> horizontal road type dropouts.
>
> So, if it were me, I would simply run a good, MUSA rear hub that is bolted
> on with bolts, not nutted on with nuts.  The offering from Phil and Paul
> and White Industries and Chris King all have these allen bolts.  Remove the
> two allen bolts entirely and the wheel drops out of the drop out.  No more
> problem.  You can have perfect fender line, and can remove your rear wheel
> without deflating it.  It will add between 30 and 60 seconds to the total
> amount of time it takes to fix your flat.
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
>> I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed
>> gear, so I prefer the track ends.
>> I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To change
>> the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to free
>> up the fenders.
>>
>> Philip
>> www.biketinker.com
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>>>
>>>  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden fenders,
>>> which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy removal.
>>> Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as functional
>>> as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, and with a
>>> mudflap, they’re not bad.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Quickbeam/Simple One dropout question

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks -- what about with a single ring: how many cogs can you get out of
the QB/SO dropout when all is optimized?


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Cyclofiend Jim
wrote:

> Didn't realize the Dingle required a 9 sp chain.
>
> My stock gearing setup is the 40/32 front chainring setup with a 14T fixed
> and 18T FW.  The 40x14 (centered) and 40x18 fit easily.  The 32x18 is at
> the end of the dropout with that chain length.
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> - Jim
>
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:38:41 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> The Converted (Campy) Curt Custom ('03) has long 1010s, but given my
>> peculiar choice of ring and cog, any ~70" cruising gear puts the axle in
>> the middle of the dropout, but too close to the end to accommodate another
>> full chain link. This means that the dropout cannot accommodate a larger
>> cog that is 3 t bigger -- the axle is halfway out of the dropout with such
>> a cog.
>>
>> A half link would work if I were not using a Dingle, which requires a 9
>> speed chain -- they don't make 9 speed chain half links (I asked Surly and
>> half link makers).
>>
>> So, I am thinking of modifying, once again, the dropouts. Perhaps track
>> ends?
>>
>> And this is the question: if optimally placed, how great a tooth
>> difference can the track ends on the QB and SO accept? Or, are these track
>> ends longer than Campy 1010s?
>>
>> Can a SO or QB accommodate a 4 t difference?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Patrick "no confusion, please, I've been quite clear" Moore
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Eric. Look forward to it, mouthwateringly.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 11:16 AM, EGNolan  wrote:

> Patrick M- I'll get you the recipe once I've consulted my dear wife. I use
> "we" a lot, when I should probably just say "my lovely wife." We usually
> substitute our own tomatoes for canned, take out the added sugar, but may
> use a paste. I'll get details for ya.
>
> Patrick of the Deacon sort- I agree ADDING sugar to ketchup or chocolate
> isn't necessary.Where I think we differ is that I don't worry about taking
> the sugar out of my tomatoes for ketchup or taking it out of my
> strawberries for jam. You can have unsweetened ketchup that still contains
> some of the natural sugar from the tomatoes.
>
> All this talk has made me hungry, I think I'm gonna go eat my lunch now;
> scrambled eggs w/ roasted peppers & onions on a bed of rice. No sugar
> added, but I didn't fish any out either...
>
> Best,
> Eric
> Indpls
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS-Rivved out 85 Stumpjumper-22 Inches-$500

[Peter Morgano]

Bump, 1983 Stumpjumper ready for some cruising!


On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Peter Morgano wrote:

> Ahh, looking at my old emails I think you are correct its actually an
> 1983, sorry for the confusion. Thanks Keith!
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 3:24 PM, iamkeith  wrote:
>
>> Nice bike!  FYI, though:  Though I may be wrong, I'm pretty sure that's
>> not an '85.  The '85 had a lugged unicrown fork and steeper angles.  Yours
>> looks like maybe a '84 stumpjumper sport???   Great bike, either way, and
>> nicely set up.  (You had me excited for a bit, because I've been searching
>> for years for an '85 in a bigger than 20" size.)
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 1:18:32 PM UTC-7, Peter M wrote:
>>>
>>> For sale is my recently acquired 1985 Stumpjumper, 22 inch, I think the
>>> biggest one they made that year. I bought it off a list member in perfect
>>> condition, minus the usual collection of scrapes and Rivved out the cockpit
>>> with Cromo 55cm Bosco Bars, 130mm Technomic Deluxe stem. I changed out the
>>> cables to all Jagwire Hyper. I also swapped out the old wheelset for a set
>>> I had from a 1992MB2. So now its a 7 speed, just had to snug the 130mm
>>> wheel into the 128mm dropouts. Of course with the Deerhead components
>>> re-adjusting the shifters was no issue. Brake pads are like new, all wires
>>> replaced. Slapped on some Fat Franks for around town riding but bike came
>>> with brand newish Pacelas that I will throw in as well. I was thinking
>>> about $500 plus shipping but please let me know if that is too high. I do
>>> have the original bars and stem that can be swapped back for a price
>>> reduction but I purpose built it for around town cruising and its a great
>>> ride as it sits. Standover with the fat franks is about 84cm. I planned to
>>> keep this forever as its a bike I wanted all my life but I am buying a
>>> house soon and was told that some of the herd has to go. Since I have my
>>> bombadil and MB2 there was a lot of crossover and I will be looking for a
>>> go-fast bike this spring instead. email me with any questions, here is the
>>> link to my Flikr set. Thanks all
>>>
>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/67889635@N06/
>>>
>>>
>>>
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[RBW] Re: Recommendations for a front derailer on a compact double?

[velomann]

I'm running the same White crankset on my new Ocean Air Rambler with 44/28 
rings and an Ultegra 6500 FD. works flawlessly. Also running an Ultegra 
long cage RD, and it handles the full range on an 11/34 9-speed cassette. 
Thought about going with XT, and probably would have worked fine too, but I 
like the Ultegra look better.

Mike

On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:25:05 PM UTC-8, Mike On A Bike wrote:
>
> I just set up my Sam with a 48/34 White Industries crankset and I need a 
> new derailer for this drivetrain setup. It was probably just my mechanical 
> ineptitude, but I couldn't get my Campy "Mirage" derailer (that I had for a 
> triple) to work with it. I've not been thrilled with the Mirage anyhow, so 
> I want to get a new derailer that is ideal for a double. 
>
> I am thinking Shimano XT would be the best bet, but there are so many 
> models, I don't know which to pick (or if there is something better at a 
> similar price). Can any of you running double cranksets recommend a good 
> choice for me? 
>
> Many thanks! 
>

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[RBW] Re: Small - medium Saddle Bags

[Jim Cloud]

Hi Michael,

I'd imagine that your wife will be quite pleased with her converted 
Sequoia.  Personally, I haven't used the Albatross bars, but many riders 
seem very happy with them.

Jim

On Monday, November 25, 2013 4:42:38 AM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Thanks Jim & Pudge.   I'm using a Selle Anatomica saddle right now so the 
> Bertoud could be a good option.  I'll give it some thought.  The next thing 
> in the bike budget is converting my wife's old Sequoia to Albatross bars, 9 
> speed index, thumbs, and 130 mm spaced wheels (from 126).  So the bag will 
> wait till Spring. 
>
> Michael 
>
> On Friday, November 22, 2013 1:10:48 PM UTC-5, Jim Cloud wrote:
>>
>> A bit more than your >$100, but a nice bag that is the original seat bag 
>> from which the Rivendell models (Baggins, Nigel Smythe) are copies - the 
>> Berthoud GB786 seat bag.  It's available here with the attachment hardware 
>> that would be needed to fit the bag to a Brooks saddle - 
>> http://www.calhouncycle.com/productcart/pc/Gilles-Berthoud-786-Saddlebag-with-Buckle-p3404.htm
>>
>> The quick detachment used for this bag really works quite well and 
>> permits easy removal of the bag.  Here's a photo of this bag on my 
>> Rivendell Road Standard:  
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/37964304@N05/5325521629/
>>
>> Jim
>>
>> On Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:25:06 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> After completing the 650b conversion of my Trek 620 I find myself 
>>> wanting a smaller bag for it.  Currently it has a Carradice Barley Bag on 
>>> the SQR system.  Left over from my commuting days.  I doubt I will ever 
>>> need a bag that large for the kind of day rides I do on this bike and am 
>>> looking for a wedge bag, about the size of a Baggins, less sytlized and 
>>> less expensive than a Nigel.  The current saddle doesn't have bag loops. 
>>>  >$100 in the budget.  Suggestions?
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm not in the food bucket you think I'm in, Eric. We eat the naturally 
occurring sugars in the fruit we consume, so there is no difference between 
us there. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:16:06 AM UTC-7, EGNolan wrote:
>
> Patrick M- I'll get you the recipe once I've consulted my dear wife. I use 
> "we" a lot, when I should probably just say "my lovely wife." We usually 
> substitute our own tomatoes for canned, take out the added sugar, but may 
> use a paste. I'll get details for ya.
>  
> Patrick of the Deacon sort- I agree ADDING sugar to ketchup or chocolate 
> isn't necessary.Where I think we differ is that I don't worry about taking 
> the sugar out of my tomatoes for ketchup or taking it out of my 
> strawberries for jam. You can have unsweetened ketchup that still contains 
> some of the natural sugar from the tomatoes. 
>  
> All this talk has made me hungry, I think I'm gonna go eat my lunch now; 
> scrambled eggs w/ roasted peppers & onions on a bed of rice. No sugar 
> added, but I didn't fish any out either...
>  
> Best,
> Eric
> Indpls
>  
>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm not in the market for a single speed, but if I had a single speed, it 
would likely have fenders.  If it had fenders, it would likely have correct 
or close to correct fender line.  As such it would be impossible to remove 
the rear wheel either rearward with track-like dropouts or forward with 
horizontal road type dropouts.  

So, if it were me, I would simply run a good, MUSA rear hub that is bolted 
on with bolts, not nutted on with nuts.  The offering from Phil and Paul 
and White Industries and Chris King all have these allen bolts.  Remove the 
two allen bolts entirely and the wheel drops out of the drop out.  No more 
problem.  You can have perfect fender line, and can remove your rear wheel 
without deflating it.  It will add between 30 and 60 seconds to the total 
amount of time it takes to fix your flat.   

On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed 
> gear, so I prefer the track ends.
> I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To change 
> the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to free 
> up the fenders. 
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>  
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>>
>>  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden fenders, 
>> which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy removal.  
>> Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as functional 
>> as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, and with a 
>> mudflap, they’re not bad.
>>
>>  
>>  
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[EGNolan]

Patrick M- I'll get you the recipe once I've consulted my dear wife. I use 
"we" a lot, when I should probably just say "my lovely wife." We usually 
substitute our own tomatoes for canned, take out the added sugar, but may 
use a paste. I'll get details for ya.
 
Patrick of the Deacon sort- I agree ADDING sugar to ketchup or chocolate 
isn't necessary.Where I think we differ is that I don't worry about taking 
the sugar out of my tomatoes for ketchup or taking it out of my 
strawberries for jam. You can have unsweetened ketchup that still contains 
some of the natural sugar from the tomatoes. 
 
All this talk has made me hungry, I think I'm gonna go eat my lunch now; 
scrambled eggs w/ roasted peppers & onions on a bed of rice. No sugar 
added, but I didn't fish any out either...
 
Best,
Eric
Indpls
 
 

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[RBW] Re: Quickbeam/Simple One dropout question

[Cyclofiend Jim]

Didn't realize the Dingle required a 9 sp chain. 

My stock gearing setup is the 40/32 front chainring setup with a 14T fixed 
and 18T FW.  The 40x14 (centered) and 40x18 fit easily.  The 32x18 is at 
the end of the dropout with that chain length.

Hope that helps,

- Jim

On Monday, November 25, 2013 9:38:41 AM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> The Converted (Campy) Curt Custom ('03) has long 1010s, but given my 
> peculiar choice of ring and cog, any ~70" cruising gear puts the axle in 
> the middle of the dropout, but too close to the end to accommodate another 
> full chain link. This means that the dropout cannot accommodate a larger 
> cog that is 3 t bigger -- the axle is halfway out of the dropout with such 
> a cog.
>
> A half link would work if I were not using a Dingle, which requires a 9 
> speed chain -- they don't make 9 speed chain half links (I asked Surly and 
> half link makers).
>
> So, I am thinking of modifying, once again, the dropouts. Perhaps track 
> ends?
>
> And this is the question: if optimally placed, how great a tooth 
> difference can the track ends on the QB and SO accept? Or, are these track 
> ends longer than Campy 1010s?
>
> Can a SO or QB accommodate a 4 t difference?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Patrick "no confusion, please, I've been quite clear" Moore
>
> -- 
> *RESUMES THAT GET YOU NOTICED!*
> Certified Resume Writer
> http://resumespecialties.com/index.html
> patric...@resumespecialties.com 
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/
>
> Albuquerque, NM
>  

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell "SimpleBeam" - New Model - Call for the Seriously Interested

[Bob Cook]

Kind of you to "volunteer." ;-)

Would you, Jim, or any others out there have a sense whether "Sam-like" 
could mean 135 rear spacing? I ask because I learned the way of 
single-speed after the SOs were gone.  I have a Cross Check with a wheel 
set I like very much (Paul hubs, White Industries DOS ENO freewheel). The 
rear hub is 135 OLD. CC is a fine frame, but I want lugs, longer chain 
stays, kickstand plate, etc.

Thanks,
Bob

On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:17:03 AM UTC-6, Cyclofiend Jim wrote:
>
> In a separate thread, I seem to have been volunteered to collect names of 
> those seriously interested in a next generation SimpleOne / Quickbeam.
>
> The thread can be found here:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rbw-owners-bunch/QhzO4CFyz1U
>
> Please take a moment to read it all the way through.  Thanks!
>
> Ok... Welcome back!
>
> here's what Grant posted:
>
> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 9:53:57 PM UTC-8, grant wrote:
>>
>> Nothing's ever for sure gone for good, but here's the thing with the 
>> SimpleBeams (forgive the gross generalizations used to make the point 
>> without accounting for exceptions. I will use "everybody" not in the 
>> literal sense):
>>
>> Everybody moans the loss of a bike they didn't buy when it was availabe. 
>> The SB was always the slowest seller of all time, which in itself isn't the 
>> end of the world, but what it means for us is---it was a cash flow killer. 
>> We pay fully for 100 of them about two months before they arrive. Then it 
>> takes a year and a half or two years to sell them. 
>> One thing that seems to happen is--when something's readily available, 
>> it's meh...and when it's gone, the heart grows fonder genuinely--and maybe 
>> people who would have been buyers when the bike was around have just 
>> learned about it and think hey I'd like that. But there is a small tendency 
>> to overenthuse about what can't be had. I do it myself with other things in 
>> my life. 
>> *Dang, they quit making that __ I've hemmed and hawed about and 
>> admired for years, but never wanted enough to buy, but now that I can't buy 
>> it, shoot!*I don't mean that's rampant here, and I DO like that the 
>> bikes are so well-liked. Me too. I sold my QB when I needed money, figured 
>> I could always get a SO, and now they're gone and I want one more than 
>> ever. So---I'm not just an observer of this phenomenon, but a participant!
>> If we could pre-sell 30 of them. Paid two-months before they arrive 
>> (that's when our payment is due), I'd stick my neck out and order 100. This 
>> time they'd be slightly different, and the danger of this hypothetical 
>> scenario is that it would open a debate about what's the difference between 
>> the new and old, which is preferable, then a vote, and it all gets weird 
>> and half the people who expressed willingness to get a new one now feel 
>> dis-listened to and bummed because it didn't go that way.
>> So...i'd be innerested only if I had free secret rein to tweak it 
>> this way and that, still resulting in a killer one-speed, but not a clone 
>> of the SO, which was a clone of the QB. It might be any color, any name, 
>> any kind of break, any anything. I totally get that ordering semi-blind 
>> isn't easy to do. The unblind part of the semi is: Track or horizontal 
>> dropouts angled to allow pad contact over a wide range of chainlengths, 
>> like QB/SO. Two bottle mounts, rackable. good clearance. Basically Sam-like 
>> with diff dropouts. Probably sidepulls but could be cantis. A perfectly 
>> good color, a good name, a nice badge, a really great singler.
>>
>> Serious agreers will PM cyclofiend (Jim! So sorryplease forgive 
>> me...but these  months I have so many kaleidiscopes in my head that I can't 
>> have another one), and if the list reaches 30 (meaning you'll have $1200  
>> by Dec 2014 for the frame/fork/headset, and the money won't evaporate in a 
>> divorce or unforseeable crisis), then we'll get some good frames.
>>
>> I have a full plate and I know it seems so bad to say I can't answer 
>> questions about this, but for the next few months I probably can't. You can 
>> try, and I'll try, but I'm at my  physicalemotional limit, and ... can't 
>> promise. If you send a postcard, I'll respond with a postcard.
>>
>> Is this all too much? Probably. Sorry again. 
>>
>> If nothing happens now, I think the bike will happen again later, but it 
>> may be an extra year or two.
>>
>> I know there are lots of options out there. I'm not trying to make this a 
>> difficult mystery bike. My crazy proposal..is the only way that makes 
>> sense for us right now. 
>>
>> Thanks..
>>
>> Grant
>>
>
>
> So - what happens next?
>
> I'll compile a list of takers/wanters/those-who-will-in-fact-pony-up.
>
> IF YOU ARE INTERESTED AND CAN COMMIT IN THE MANNER GRANT PROPOSED - 
>
> Please do this:
>
> Email: cyclo...@gmail.com 
>
> Use a Subject Line: SimpleBeam Order
>
> Include your name, email and a simple statement of

Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Cyclofiend Jim]

The rear stay QR trick is a good one - mine has been set up that way from 
the beginning. 

IIRC, the largest tires the QB can handle is 45 - which you had mounted - 
http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/quickbeam/

- J

On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:08:08 AM UTC-8, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed 
> gear, so I prefer the track ends.
> I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To change 
> the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to free 
> up the fenders. 
>
> Philip
> www.biketinker.com
>  
>
> On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>>
>>  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden fenders, 
>> which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy removal.  
>> Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as functional 
>> as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, and with a 
>> mudflap, they’re not bad.
>>
>>  
>>  
>> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com] 
>> *On Behalf Of *Eric Norris
>> *Sent:* Monday, November 25, 2013 10:41 AM
>> *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> My suggestion for a future reissue of the QB/SO: Horizontal drops, angled 
>> like the track ends on the QB. Track ends are certainly traditional for 
>> fixed gear bikes (and I suppose for single-speeds), but they make it more 
>> difficult to get the rear wheel in and out, especially with fenders. On my 
>> QB, I have to put the rear wheel in the frame with the tire 
>> deflated--there's barely enough clearance to squeeze it in, and moving the 
>> fender far enough back for adequate clearance would result in an ugly and 
>> unacceptable chain line.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> Extra-long horizontal drops, cut out of the same material as those on the 
>> original QB, would make the bike more nearly perfect.
>>  
>>
>> Eric N
>>  
>> www.CampyOnly.com
>>  
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>>  
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>   
>>
>>  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Patrick Moore]

To tag along with my other question:

Can a competent builder make his own long, horizontal dropouts, or does
this require special forging equipment?

Can these be as long as the longest track ends?

I agree that forward facing horizontals are much easier on the road.

I'd also have a builder move the cs bridge forward to make inserting a 35
mm tire easier.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Eric Norris  wrote:

> My suggestion for a future reissue of the QB/SO: Horizontal drops, angled
> like the track ends on the QB. Track ends are certainly traditional for
> fixed gear bikes (and I suppose for single-speeds), but they make it more
> difficult to get the rear wheel in and out, especially with fenders. On my
> QB, I have to put the rear wheel in the frame with the tire
> deflated--there's barely enough clearance to squeeze it in, and moving the
> fender far enough back for adequate clearance would result in an ugly and
> unacceptable chain line.
>
> Extra-long horizontal drops, cut out of the same material as those on the
> original QB, would make the bike more nearly perfect.
>
> Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>
> On Nov 24, 2013, at 9:53 PM, grant  wrote:
>
> Nothing's ever for sure gone for good, but here's the thing with the
> SimpleBeams (forgive the gross generalizations used to make the point
> without accounting for exceptions. I will use "everybody" not in the
> literal sense):
>
> Everybody moans the loss of a bike they didn't buy when it was availabe.
> The SB was always the slowest seller of all time, which in itself isn't the
> end of the world, but what it means for us is---it was a cash flow killer.
> We pay fully for 100 of them about two months before they arrive. Then it
> takes a year and a half or two years to sell them.
> One thing that seems to happen is--when something's readily available,
> it's meh...and when it's gone, the heart grows fonder genuinely--and maybe
> people who would have been buyers when the bike was around have just
> learned about it and think hey I'd like that. But there is a small tendency
> to overenthuse about what can't be had. I do it myself with other things in
> my life.
> *Dang, they quit making that __ I've hemmed and hawed about and
> admired for years, but never wanted enough to buy, but now that I can't buy
> it, shoot! *I don't mean that's rampant here, and I DO like that the
> bikes are so well-liked. Me too. I sold my QB when I needed money, figured
> I could always get a SO, and now they're gone and I want one more than
> ever. So---I'm not just an observer of this phenomenon, but a participant!
> If we could pre-sell 30 of them. Paid two-months before they arrive
> (that's when our payment is due), I'd stick my neck out and order 100. This
> time they'd be slightly different, and the danger of this hypothetical
> scenario is that it would open a debate about what's the difference between
> the new and old, which is preferable, then a vote, and it all gets weird
> and half the people who expressed willingness to get a new one now feel
> dis-listened to and bummed because it didn't go that way.
> So...i'd be innerested only if I had free secret rein to tweak it this
> way and that, still resulting in a killer one-speed, but not a clone of the
> SO, which was a clone of the QB. It might be any color, any name, any kind
> of break, any anything. I totally get that ordering semi-blind isn't easy
> to do. The unblind part of the semi is: Track or horizontal dropouts angled
> to allow pad contact over a wide range of chainlengths, like QB/SO. Two
> bottle mounts, rackable. good clearance. Basically Sam-like with diff
> dropouts. Probably sidepulls but could be cantis. A perfectly good color, a
> good name, a nice badge, a really great singler.
>
> Serious agreers will PM cyclofiend (Jim! So sorryplease forgive
> me...but these  months I have so many kaleidiscopes in my head that I can't
> have another one), and if the list reaches 30 (meaning you'll have $1200
> by Dec 2014 for the frame/fork/headset, and the money won't evaporate in a
> divorce or unforseeable crisis), then we'll get some good frames.
>
> I have a full plate and I know it seems so bad to say I can't answer
> questions about this, but for the next few months I probably can't. You can
> try, and I'll try, but I'm at my  physicalemotional limit, and ... can't
> promise. If you send a postcard, I'll respond with a postcard.
>
> Is this all too much? Probably. Sorry again.
>
> If nothing happens now, I think the bike will happen again later, but it
> may be an extra year or two.
>
> I know there are lots of options out there. I'm not trying to make this a
> difficult mystery bike. My crazy proposal..is the only way that makes
> sense for us right now.
>
> Thanks..
>
> Grant
>
> On Friday, November 22, 2013 7:09:49 PM UTC-8, Christopher Murray wrote:
>>
>> I was wondering if anyone knew why these bikes are no longer made. They

Re: [RBW] Re: mechanical issues

[Ron Mc]

Jim, if you grease threads before you torque you stand to tension them to 
failure.  Torque as a strain gage depends on friction.  In applications 
where they do grease the threads, like steam turbine covers, they use 
ultrasonics to measure the length to which they're stretching the bolt.  
Regards

On Monday, November 25, 2013 11:18:53 AM UTC-6, hsmitham wrote:
>
> I of course am assuming you have a Sugino crank.
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> ~Hugh
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:17 AM, Hugh Smitham 
> > wrote:
>
>> Jay I think I know the problem. As you must of removed the crank when you 
>> worked on the chain-rings you need to torque the crank bolt  "And for 
>> all you torque-spec types: 320-390 inch pounds" from the riv site,
>>
>> http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/cr1.htm
>>
>> I think Ron already mentioned this. I had this identical issue. My torque 
>> wrench is in Ft/Lbs or Newton meters. I converted the above torque to 37 
>> Newton and no more creaking. Those noises are frustrating.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> ~Hugh
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 11:51 PM, Jay in Tel Aviv 
>> 
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> A few more details in case anyone is still reading this:
>>>  
>>> Creaking happens under hard pedalling. I feel it through my feet, so it 
>>> really seems like it's coming from the crank area. It started a few weeks 
>>> after I replaced chain rings (from Sugino triple to 40-26-bashguard) and 
>>> the chain ring bolts were a bit loose when I tightened them. Honestly, I 
>>> don't remember if I greased the cranks before reinstalling them. I 
>>> usually do, but I had them off for cleaning not too much before so maybe I 
>>> figured they were good enough. I'll pull, clean, regrease and reinstall 
>>> them this weekend.
>>>  
>>> Shifting - With the old cassette, Shimano 11-34, the only issue I 
>>> noticed while riding was failure to shift up from 18T to 15T. I had to 
>>> shift twice, to 13T and them down again if I wanted that gear. It had been 
>>> fine before that for a long time until I replaced the chain. New and old 
>>> chains were both Shimano. With the new SRAM 11-34 cassette, on the stand, 
>>> it is skipping cogs going in both directions. I would think that the cable 
>>> could be either too loose or too tight, not both. I will try the adjustment 
>>> procedure described here and hope nothing is bent. Derailler is LX from 
>>> Jensen's ($30 NOS if anyone needs). I wouldn't expect any compatability 
>>> issues, but maybe that's part of it?
>>>  
>>> Jay
>>>  
>>> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 4:07:51 PM UTC+2, Jay in Tel Aviv wrote:
>>>
 2 annoying mechanical issues on my Sam Hillborne:
  

1. Creaking - sometimes more, sometimes less, but dramatic enough 
to be easily heard by someone riding next to me. Tried so far - 
 tightening 
chain ring bolts; cleaning, oiling and finaly replacing the chain; 
 playing 
with FD trim until cross-eyed, check BB for play. Next steps - replace 
pedals, replace BB even though no play, ...? 
2. Rear shifting - indexed bar end shifter was skipping my favorite 
cog (15T), so yesterday I replaced the cassette, thinking I had waited 
 too 
long to replaced the chain a few weeks ago. Now it's skipping all over 
 in 
indexed mode, both up and down. Tightening the cable (also recently 
replaced) didn't help either so I switched to friction, which is of 
 course 
fine. I have nothing against friction, but I don't like it when things 
don't work. In this case I'm commuting in traffic with a 40-26 in 
 front, so 
for this terrain it's essentially a 1X9 and I want indexing. 

 I don't have access to a Rivish LBS anymore, and no one I know around 
 here has ever seen a bar end shifters. So it's just you guys.
  
 Thanks,
 Jay 

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F

Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?

[Philip Williamson]

I find fat tires (32mm) run into the chainstay bridge on my other fixed 
gear, so I prefer the track ends.
I had SKS fenders with the QRs on the rear as well as the fork. To change 
the wheel, I just popped the rear stays out of the quick releases to free 
up the fenders. 

Philip
www.biketinker.com
 

On Monday, November 25, 2013 8:05:42 AM UTC-8, Pudge wrote:
>
>  One solution for the tire removal issue is to use flat wooden fenders, 
> which bend very easily outward away from the tire, allowing easy removal.  
> Of course, there are always trade-offs – such fenders aren’t as functional 
> as a good plastic or metal curved fender, but in non-downpours, and with a 
> mudflap, they’re not bad.
>
>  
>  
> *From:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Eric Norris
> *Sent:* Monday, November 25, 2013 10:41 AM
> *To:* rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* Re: [RBW] Re: Why no more Quickbeam/ SimpleOne?
>  
>  
>  
> My suggestion for a future reissue of the QB/SO: Horizontal drops, angled 
> like the track ends on the QB. Track ends are certainly traditional for 
> fixed gear bikes (and I suppose for single-speeds), but they make it more 
> difficult to get the rear wheel in and out, especially with fenders. On my 
> QB, I have to put the rear wheel in the frame with the tire 
> deflated--there's barely enough clearance to squeeze it in, and moving the 
> fender far enough back for adequate clearance would result in an ugly and 
> unacceptable chain line.
>  
>  
>  
> Extra-long horizontal drops, cut out of the same material as those on the 
> original QB, would make the bike more nearly perfect.
>  
>
> Eric N
>  
> www.CampyOnly.com
>  
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
>  
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>   
>
>  

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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Patrick Moore]

Eric -- would you share your recipe? The few recipes I found online -- no
cooking, use tomato sauce in a can and add a few taste enhancers -- looked,
well, not appetizing -- to my very untrained cook's eye, I must add.

Bikes: I like a big plate of french fries with good ketchup after a long
bike ride. And it's another, lesser Lent for us now, so satisfying
non-animal-food is in demand.

Thanks.


On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 10:41 AM, EGNolan  wrote:

> We make our own. The only sugar is that that comes directly from our
> tomatoes, which is a fair amount. Most fruits have plentya sugar on their
> own, so adding isn't necessary, but as Anne mentioned, taking away all
> sugar from anything fruit based would be taking away the fruit essence.
> Ketchup, catsup, catch-up, whatever you call it, isn't terribly difficult
> to make and it keeps for quite a while. If you're into making yer own
> fries, I say make yer own catchumep and enjoy w/ a nice Pale Ale, like
> Dale's or sumthin'.
>
> Just to get this back on topic, when my son rides his bike ahead of me, he
> likes to shout "Catch up, mustard." After 2 1/2 years of this joke, I still
> smile everytime he says it.
>
> Best,
> Eric
> Indpls
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Patrick Moore]

Hugh: Thanks. My brother, who shops at TJ's regularly, told me that they
(or at least the one he shops at here in ABQ) no longer carries it.


On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 4:11 PM, hsmitham  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> Don't know if you have Trader Joe's out there but they sell an organic
> ketchup that has 2 grams of sugar per table spoon like Deacon I'd like none.
>
> ~Hugh
>
> On Sunday, November 24, 2013 2:26:19 PM UTC-8, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Not too off topic, I hope, given all the "paelo" stuff.
>>
>> Can anyone recommend a ketchup that is not hugely over-sweetened like
>> Heinz's typical, with all its corn syrup? I don't care about the carbs, I
>> just very much dislike the way the sugar masks the flavor.
>>
>> I've found Westbrae here:
>>
>> http://www6.netrition.com/westbrae_veggie_ketchup.html
>>
>> at a reasonable price (not paying $7.50 for Dean and DeLuca), but how
>> does it *taste*?
>>
>> Or can someone take me to a reliable (and personally tested, if
>> recommended) recipe?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> (And what wine goes best with ketchup?)
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Caveman ketchup

[Deacon Patrick]

I understand, Anne. I simply disagree with the premise that ketchup is 
inherently sweet or needs to be. Makers of processed foods add sweetener to 
everything for one reason -- sweet is addictive.

I would also argue that taking the sugar out of ketchup is like taking the 
sugar out of chocolate. Chocolate is quite amazing without sweetener.

I'm with you 100% on fat-free anything and half and half. Give me heavy 
cream (grass-fed)! Yum!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:30:30 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote:
>
> I'm not arguing about whether you should like sweet things. You should 
> like what you like. I'm just saying that if you take ketchup, a 
> condiment whose main flavor is sweet, and you remove all the sugar, 
> you have something else other than ketchup. It might be something 
> delicious, but it's not ketchup. 
>
> (Also, fat-free half & half: Half what, and half what? It's a mystery to 
> me.) 
>
> On Mon, Nov 25, 2013 at 9:18 AM, Deacon Patrick 
> > 
> wrote: 
> > Anne, 
> > 
> > Actually, once our family stopped eating sugar (and other sweeteners) 
> all 
> > the time in most everything (seriously, look at the labels. If it's 
> > processed, it has some form of sugar in it, for starters), the natural 
> > flavors of real food wake up and are far more lively. Ketchup is a 
> sauce, 
> > and has no need for sweetener. 
> > 
> > With abandon, 
> > Patrick 
> > 
> > 
> > On Monday, November 25, 2013 10:10:10 AM UTC-7, Anne Paulson wrote: 
> >> 
> >> I'm trying to understand what you want in the flavor here, Hugh. I can 
> >> understand trying to avoid high fructose corn syrup, and I also can 
> >> understand dialing down the sugar somewhat,  but isn't trying to have 
> >> unsweetened ketchup like having a chocolate bar without chocolate? 
> >> Ketchup is a fruit butter, so it's flavored with sugar (and a lot of 
> >> it) and vinegar (and a lot of it) to make it sweet and sour. If you 
> >> take out the sugar, you have sour. Sour is good, but in what way would 
> >> it be like ketchup? 
> >> 
> >> On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 3:11 PM, hsmitham  wrote: 
> >> > Patrick, 
> >> > 
> >> > Don't know if you have Trader Joe's out there but they sell an 
> organic 
> >> > ketchup that has 2 grams of sugar per table spoon like Deacon I'd 
> like 
> >> > none. 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> -- Anne Paulson 
> >> 
> >> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
> > 
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>
> -- 
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>
> It isn't a contest. Enjoy the ride. 
>

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