[RBW] ISO/WTB: Selle Anatomica H1 black saddle

[Kim Hetzel]

 I am looking to buy a Selle Anatomica H1 (with steel rails) black saddle 
that is gently used or new and is in good condition. If you have one, send 
me an email off the LIST.

Thank-you,
Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Andrew Turner]

Man that geo is spot on. It's a shame Riv doesn't make a snappy bike at a
cheaper pricepoint but it also seems like Grant's really shifted his gaze
to the off-road, do-it-all sector. Lengthening chainstays on the Homer and
calling a touring bike a road bike feels like unnecessary overlap but hey,
not my call. Anyhow, Crust is here to fill the gaps.

- Andrew

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 7:35 PM R Olson  wrote:

> I have a 61cm roadeo and have ridden several other rivs and I love the way
> the roadeo rides.  It's the perfect bike in almost every way.  It's the
> most responsive bike I've ever owned.  It's quick without being twitchy.
> Only problem is it's slightly too small, so I've been considering different
> options (besides the obvious one of just getting a size bigger from riv),
> including a roadini.  Along the way, I've been obsessed with comparing
> bikes on bike insight.  Of note, and relevant to this discussion is that I
> compared a 61cm Roadini with a 66cm Gunnar Grand Tour frame, and lo and
> behold, it's has almost the exact same geometry (see attached pic)!!  Not
> sure what the differences in the tubing are, but I'd bet the Gunnar touring
> frame has the same or even lighter tubing.  Thankful for this post and
> discussion, everyone.   Perhaps the roadini is not the right choice to
> upsize my roadeo.
>
> Ryan
>
> [image: GunnarRoadiniComparison.jpg]
>
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:53:45 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> Having owned a Roadini, I would go a step further and say it's basically
>> an old school touring bike. Long, relaxed, kind of overbuilt. I've never
>> ridden one, but I'd guess a Specialized Expedition or Miyata 1000 would
>> feel pretty similar. By contrast, I've had a string of vintage Trek sport
>> touring bikes, and they felt a bit snappier than the Roadini.
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 6:13 PM Andrew Turner 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> cjus...@gmail.com, sorry I don't know your name, but while staring at
>>> the finished build as one does, one of my first thoughts was, this looks a
>>> LOT like a Casseroll! I've never ridden one but am delighted that someone
>>> else made that connection. I would 100% agree with that description for the
>>> Roadini: "A versatile (light) touring machine with roadie influences."
>>>
>>> I also should've clarified that the 2022 Roadini model is the one I have
>>> a harder time calling a road bike. To me it's a new-age sport tourer. Lot's
>>> of bags don't even need brazeons or racks these days and I think the
>>> Roadini would carry them in stride.
>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I think of the Roadini as a Rivendell road bike, as in "this is how Riv
 distills Rivness into a TIG-welded caliper-brake frame designed to be a
 little shorter than other Rivs, and will probably use dropbsrs and
 skinny-ish tires." It's not a "road bike" as the current market understands
 that term.

 Joe Bernard

 On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:41 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience
> with the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic 
> because
> I like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while 
> riding
> the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a 
> handicap
> swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty
> cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm
> gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels
> insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my
> experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200,
> they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road
> bikes...
>
> Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would
> MUCH prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of
> selling the Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But
> where I'm at right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that
> feels lively and a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer
> to the pinch flat gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I 
> were
> a sleep-deprived rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country 
> road,
> the Roadini and I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me
> right now.
>
> This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe
> Rivendell shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely
> THEIR version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo
> fit into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are
> beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve
> their

Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[R Olson]

I have a 61cm roadeo and have ridden several other rivs and I love the way 
the roadeo rides.  It's the perfect bike in almost every way.  It's the 
most responsive bike I've ever owned.  It's quick without being twitchy.  
Only problem is it's slightly too small, so I've been considering different 
options (besides the obvious one of just getting a size bigger from riv), 
including a roadini.  Along the way, I've been obsessed with comparing 
bikes on bike insight.  Of note, and relevant to this discussion is that I 
compared a 61cm Roadini with a 66cm Gunnar Grand Tour frame, and lo and 
behold, it's has almost the exact same geometry (see attached pic)!!  Not 
sure what the differences in the tubing are, but I'd bet the Gunnar touring 
frame has the same or even lighter tubing.  Thankful for this post and 
discussion, everyone.   Perhaps the roadini is not the right choice to 
upsize my roadeo. 

Ryan  

[image: GunnarRoadiniComparison.jpg]

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:53:45 PM UTC-7 Eric Daume wrote:

> Having owned a Roadini, I would go a step further and say it's basically 
> an old school touring bike. Long, relaxed, kind of overbuilt. I've never 
> ridden one, but I'd guess a Specialized Expedition or Miyata 1000 would 
> feel pretty similar. By contrast, I've had a string of vintage Trek sport 
> touring bikes, and they felt a bit snappier than the Roadini.
>
> Eric
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 6:13 PM Andrew Turner  
> wrote:
>
>> cjus...@gmail.com, sorry I don't know your name, but while staring at 
>> the finished build as one does, one of my first thoughts was, this looks a 
>> LOT like a Casseroll! I've never ridden one but am delighted that someone 
>> else made that connection. I would 100% agree with that description for the 
>> Roadini: "A versatile (light) touring machine with roadie influences." 
>>
>> I also should've clarified that the 2022 Roadini model is the one I have 
>> a harder time calling a road bike. To me it's a new-age sport tourer. Lot's 
>> of bags don't even need brazeons or racks these days and I think the 
>> Roadini would carry them in stride. 
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I think of the Roadini as a Rivendell road bike, as in "this is how Riv 
>>> distills Rivness into a TIG-welded caliper-brake frame designed to be a 
>>> little shorter than other Rivs, and will probably use dropbsrs and 
>>> skinny-ish tires." It's not a "road bike" as the current market understands 
>>> that term. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:41 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Patrick, 

 You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience 
 with the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic 
 because 
 I like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while 
 riding 
 the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a 
 handicap 
 swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty 
 cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm 
 gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels 
 insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my 
 experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200, 
 they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road 
 bikes... 

 Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would 
 MUCH prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of 
 selling the Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But 
 where I'm at right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that 
 feels lively and a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer 
 to the pinch flat gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I 
 were 
 a sleep-deprived rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country 
 road, 
 the Roadini and I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me 
 right now. 

 This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe 
 Rivendell shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely 
 THEIR version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo 
 fit into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are 
 beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve 
 their own as well. Food for thought. 

 Andrew
 On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> That's frame and fork and headset, folks.
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  
> wrote:
>
>> ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy 
>> hs!!] with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with 
>> tires 
>> and gearing sufficien

Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Eric Daume]

Having owned a Roadini, I would go a step further and say it's basically an
old school touring bike. Long, relaxed, kind of overbuilt. I've never
ridden one, but I'd guess a Specialized Expedition or Miyata 1000 would
feel pretty similar. By contrast, I've had a string of vintage Trek sport
touring bikes, and they felt a bit snappier than the Roadini.

Eric

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 6:13 PM Andrew Turner 
wrote:

> cjust...@gmail.com, sorry I don't know your name, but while staring at
> the finished build as one does, one of my first thoughts was, this looks a
> LOT like a Casseroll! I've never ridden one but am delighted that someone
> else made that connection. I would 100% agree with that description for the
> Roadini: "A versatile (light) touring machine with roadie influences."
>
> I also should've clarified that the 2022 Roadini model is the one I have a
> harder time calling a road bike. To me it's a new-age sport tourer. Lot's
> of bags don't even need brazeons or racks these days and I think the
> Roadini would carry them in stride.
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I think of the Roadini as a Rivendell road bike, as in "this is how Riv
>> distills Rivness into a TIG-welded caliper-brake frame designed to be a
>> little shorter than other Rivs, and will probably use dropbsrs and
>> skinny-ish tires." It's not a "road bike" as the current market understands
>> that term.
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:41 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience
>>> with the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic because
>>> I like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while riding
>>> the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a handicap
>>> swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty
>>> cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm
>>> gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels
>>> insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my
>>> experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200,
>>> they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road
>>> bikes...
>>>
>>> Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would MUCH
>>> prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of selling the
>>> Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But where I'm at
>>> right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that feels lively and
>>> a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer to the pinch flat
>>> gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I were a sleep-deprived
>>> rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country road, the Roadini and
>>> I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me right now.
>>>
>>> This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe
>>> Rivendell shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely
>>> THEIR version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo
>>> fit into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are
>>> beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve
>>> their own as well. Food for thought.
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 That's frame and fork and headset, folks.

 On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore 
 wrote:

> ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy
> hs!!] with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires
> and gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.
>

 --

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[J G]

That is pretty funny!  I assume I am in the rabbit hole alone when I make 
some of these connections.  Good on you for connecting as the Casseroll has 
been out of prod for 7 years or so IIRC.  I was comparing the 49cm 2010 
Mustard Casseroll (my favorite version and just found NOS after 12 years) 
Geo with this version of the 50cm Roadini:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1403/7343/files/ROADINI-500-Geo.jpg?7649874663519573416

That is the link currently posted on Riv but I suspect based on some of the 
tire info that it is an earlier iteration, so the 2022 model may be 
diverging from that link and the 15 year old Casseroll design to something 
just a little further from a road bike in its latest version.

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 5:13:18 PM UTC-6 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:
cjus...@gmail.com, sorry I don't know your name, but while staring at the 
finished build as one does, one of my first thoughts was, this looks a LOT 
like a Casseroll! I've never ridden one but am delighted that someone else 
made that connection. I would 100% agree with that description for the 
Roadini: "A versatile (light) touring machine with roadie influences." 

I also should've clarified that the 2022 Roadini model is the one I have a 
harder time calling a road bike. To me it's a new-age sport tourer. Lot's 
of bags don't even need brazeons or racks these days and I think the 
Roadini would carry them in stride. 
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:
I think of the Roadini as a Rivendell road bike, as in "this is how Riv 
distills Rivness into a TIG-welded caliper-brake frame designed to be a 
little shorter than other Rivs, and will probably use dropbsrs and 
skinny-ish tires." It's not a "road bike" as the current market understands 
that term. 

Joe Bernard 

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:41 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:
Patrick, 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience with 
the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic because I 
like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while riding 
the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a handicap 
swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty 
cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm 
gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels 
insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my 
experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200, 
they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road 
bikes... 

Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would MUCH 
prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of selling the 
Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But where I'm at 
right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that feels lively and 
a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer to the pinch flat 
gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I were a sleep-deprived 
rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country road, the Roadini and 
I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me right now. 

This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe Rivendell 
shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely THEIR 
version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo fit 
into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are 
beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve 
their own as well. Food for thought. 

Andrew
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
That's frame and fork and headset, folks.

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy hs!!] 
with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires and 
gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Andrew Turner]

cjust...@gmail.com, sorry I don't know your name, but while staring at the 
finished build as one does, one of my first thoughts was, this looks a LOT 
like a Casseroll! I've never ridden one but am delighted that someone else 
made that connection. I would 100% agree with that description for the 
Roadini: "A versatile (light) touring machine with roadie influences." 

I also should've clarified that the 2022 Roadini model is the one I have a 
harder time calling a road bike. To me it's a new-age sport tourer. Lot's 
of bags don't even need brazeons or racks these days and I think the 
Roadini would carry them in stride. 
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:53:25 PM UTC-6 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I think of the Roadini as a Rivendell road bike, as in "this is how Riv 
> distills Rivness into a TIG-welded caliper-brake frame designed to be a 
> little shorter than other Rivs, and will probably use dropbsrs and 
> skinny-ish tires." It's not a "road bike" as the current market understands 
> that term. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:41 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Patrick, 
>>
>> You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience 
>> with the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic because 
>> I like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while riding 
>> the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a handicap 
>> swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty 
>> cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm 
>> gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels 
>> insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my 
>> experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200, 
>> they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road 
>> bikes... 
>>
>> Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would MUCH 
>> prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of selling the 
>> Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But where I'm at 
>> right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that feels lively and 
>> a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer to the pinch flat 
>> gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I were a sleep-deprived 
>> rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country road, the Roadini and 
>> I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me right now. 
>>
>> This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe 
>> Rivendell shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely 
>> THEIR version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo 
>> fit into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are 
>> beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve 
>> their own as well. Food for thought. 
>>
>> Andrew
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> That's frame and fork and headset, folks.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy 
 hs!!] with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires 
 and gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.

>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[iamkeith]

I haven't fully read this thread, but have been tempted to discuss my 
Scapegoat.  I have the Gen 2 and, as I've stated in other threads, it is 
one of the best bikes I've ever owned.  I was slow to investigate or buy it 
- despite wanting the exact thing - because it is so ugly.  I finally 
jumped on one just before the pandemic hit, when Crust was moving, and had 
them on sale.  I had contemplated the Tumbleweed Prospector and a couple of 
other, similar bikes - including the Chumba Ursa and the Analog/Tanglefoot 
Moonshiner - before looking past the paint job, really studying the 
Scapegoat's geometry chart, and realizing it was just what I wanted.  

Unfortunately, the new version un-did most of what I sought out and like 
about my Gen 2 and made it different than other offerings.It had a much 
lower BB, and a longer TT  than the new version.   The fact that the bb is 
now higher and the HT angle is now slacker than the Prospector (which is 
high in order to accommodate the squish of a suspension fork if so 
outfitted)   really tells me how much the Gen 3 has changed.  (Assuming 
that's accurate.) The top tube on the Gen 2 large was longer than the one 
on the Gen 3 XL.  The longer chainstay on the Gen 3 is probably good.  But 
unless someone actually owns the new Gen 3, I think it's going to be tough 
to get a good review. 

It really depends on what you want, but the prospector might once again be 
king of the hill for my tastes.   Unless you can find a Gen 2 Scapegoat - 
then get that!.  That's my suggestion anyway.  The stooge Scrambler has a 
great geometry too, but it still doesn't a have enough clearance for the 
rear tire.  The reason the Scapegoat works so well is that they used flat 
yoke plates on BOTH sides where the chainstays connect to the bb.

Regarding the chain tensioning options:  Owning bikes with: (1) an 
eccentric bb [a  Jones 29]; (2) sliding dropouts [my actual fatbike, a 
lynskey]; and (3) rocker dropouts [the Scapegoat], I'd say that the 
eccentric bb is my favorite in terms of hassle-free, set-it-and-forget it 
ease.   The only bad thing is that I position it with a rear bias to yield 
a longer front-center measurement (ideal for me) which means that the rear 
center / effective chainstay length gets shorter (bad).  The other two 
mechanisms allow you to lengthen the later measurement by itself (good).

In case you haven't shopped for off-the-shelf wheel sets lately, boost 
wheels are now easier to find and do help a tiny bit with drivetrain 
clearance.  The prospector is still 135 only because it works best with 
Rohloff.  

FWIW, I have my scapegoat set up with 27x3.25 wheels, 3x drivetrain and 
full fenders - not 26x4 wheels.

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:48:56 AM UTC-7 Joe D. wrote:

> Another question for you Crust Scapegoat owners... Crust released an 
> updated version last Fall (https://crustbikes.com/products/scapegoat). 
> Compared to the Tumbleweed Prospector,  the new Scapegoat has 1.5 degree 
> steeper head tube angle, 1 degree slacker seat tube angle, and the 
> wheelbase is 50mm shorter in size L (
> https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=63613a1388731d001d710fb5,61bf4058e6ec02001cccd3cf,).
>   
> There's also the rocker/sliding dropouts of Scapegoat vs standard 
> dropoust/EBB of the Prospector. And the Prospector's ability to run 135mm 
> spaced wheels front and back vs Boost spacing of the Scapegoat.
>
> The slacker head tube angle of the Prospector makes me think it'd handle 
> singletrack better than the Scapegoat. Any merit to that? Any other ride 
> differences you all imagine between the two?
>
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-7 cjus...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> You guys have it right for ball parking limits based on something in the 
>> 26x~4" range based on my experience.
>>
>> As stated before, my custom Clockwork Dirt Fat 1x (SqT White Industries 
>> Road Cranks w/76bcd spider & 1x ring) with narrow Deda stays has a Q of 
>> ~180mm and looking at the space needed for tire, space, stays (modern yokes 
>> giving a little more here when used), space and arms, 170mm was what I was 
>> thinking for theoretical minimum with a SS or Rohloff.  Sounds like Zach is 
>> confirming 168mm really pushes that limit.
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 11:32:32 AM UTC-6 Joe D. wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Zach! The Tumbleweed is definitely appealing, especially with a 
>>> 29 x 3 dirt tire and 26 x 4 in winter.
>>>
>>> I wonder if 26 x 4 with reasonably big rims (64mm or full 80mm) would 
>>> work with a modified cassette, like the setup Crust bikes talk about here: 
>>> https://www.tumblr.com/crustbikes/159521355676/the-stubby-cassette. I'd 
>>> be fine with only 5-7 gears. And I think a Q factor closer to 180-185 would 
>>> be ok. It sounds like it'd definitely be a no-go at your Q factor of 174.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 10:23:35 AM UTC-7 Zach Roeder wrote:
>>>
 I'm using a Shimano XTR M9125-1 with a Q of

Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Joe Bernard]

I think of the Roadini as a Rivendell road bike, as in "this is how Riv 
distills Rivness into a TIG-welded caliper-brake frame designed to be a 
little shorter than other Rivs, and will probably use dropbsrs and 
skinny-ish tires." It's not a "road bike" as the current market understands 
that term. 

Joe Bernard 

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 2:24:41 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> Patrick, 
>
> You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience 
> with the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic because 
> I like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while riding 
> the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a handicap 
> swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty 
> cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm 
> gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels 
> insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my 
> experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200, 
> they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road 
> bikes... 
>
> Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would MUCH 
> prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of selling the 
> Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But where I'm at 
> right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that feels lively and 
> a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer to the pinch flat 
> gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I were a sleep-deprived 
> rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country road, the Roadini and 
> I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me right now. 
>
> This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe Rivendell 
> shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely THEIR 
> version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo fit 
> into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are 
> beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve 
> their own as well. Food for thought. 
>
> Andrew
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> That's frame and fork and headset, folks.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy 
>>> hs!!] with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires 
>>> and gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[J G]

If you want to steal some marketing from another company where the ethos 
has had some Venn overlap, would it be fair to describe the Roadini as:

"A versatile (light) touring machine with roadie influences."

Why that description?  That is the marketing for the Salsa Casseroll that 
was first released in 2007.  I know the original designer for the Casseroll 
and as I was looking at mine, I could not help but think it screamed 
Roadini to me.  This is not surprising as the Bridgestone/Rivendell ethos 
is well baked into the Minneapolis cycling community with the "godfather" 
of the local cycling scene being a former BStone racer (and print model 
IIRC).

Sure enough, save for the differences with the 1" vs. 1 1/8" head tube and 
a more aggressive STA on the Casseroll, every bit about the Geo of the 
current Roadini is nearly identical to the similar size Casseroll.  HTA, 
fork offset, BB drop, CS length (if Casseroll at back of horizontals) They 
even marketed the sizing for these in a very Riv way as I am riding a 49cm 
and traditionally run a 54cm road bike.

Just my thoughts for describing as I am building a Casseroll now and could 
not help but notice how in every way it felt like a Roadini in sheep's 
clothes.

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 4:24:41 PM UTC-6 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> Patrick, 
>
> You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience 
> with the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic because 
> I like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while riding 
> the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a handicap 
> swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty 
> cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm 
> gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels 
> insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my 
> experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200, 
> they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road 
> bikes... 
>
> Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would MUCH 
> prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of selling the 
> Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But where I'm at 
> right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that feels lively and 
> a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer to the pinch flat 
> gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I were a sleep-deprived 
> rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country road, the Roadini and 
> I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me right now. 
>
> This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe Rivendell 
> shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely THEIR 
> version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo fit 
> into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are 
> beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve 
> their own as well. Food for thought. 
>
> Andrew
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> That's frame and fork and headset, folks.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy 
>>> hs!!] with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires 
>>> and gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Bill Lindsay]

As long as you never build "that Libertas" and don't ride it, its ride 
qualities will remain *flawless *forever, and the weight will only change 
very gradually with oxidation.  

“We few, we happy few, we band of brothers - joined in the serious business 
of keeping our food, shelter, clothing and loved ones from combining with 
oxygen.”
-Vonnegut

BL in EC


On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 9:09:01 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> That's frame and fork and headset, folks.
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy hs!!] 
>> with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires and 
>> gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.
>>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Andrew Turner]

Patrick, 

You pretty much hit the nail on the head! It sounds like my experience with 
the Roadini is similar to your Ram experience (which is ironic because I 
like the way the Ram rides). The memory that was conjured up while riding 
the Roadini was when I was a kid at a local playground and tried a handicap 
swingset that was freshly installed. And I thought, hey this is pretty 
cool, but I do feel 50x safer than would personally like to feel...I'm 
gonna go back to jumping out of trees on a rope swing. This feels 
insensitive typing it out and I don't mean to be, and I don't think my 
experience with the Roadini makes it a worse bike than my Waterford 1200, 
they're just two totally different beasts...but they're both called road 
bikes... 

Now there are roads 40 miles or so from my front door where I would MUCH 
prefer the Roadini to my Waterford, and the opportunity cost of selling the 
Roadini is that I'll likely forego riding those roads. But where I'm at 
right now, I'd rather enjoy those 40 miles on a bike that feels lively and 
a little dangerous and either skip, walk, or say a prayer to the pinch flat 
gods and overcome that short section of sketch. If I were a sleep-deprived 
rando rider enjoying long stretches of rough country road, the Roadini and 
I would get along like peas and carrots, but that ain't me right now. 

This is a can o worms I'm opening, but I'll say it anyway, maybe Rivendell 
shouldn't be calling the Roadini a "road" bike. It's definitely THEIR 
version of one but none of their models except for maybe the Roadeo fit 
into the industries' categories. I think Country bike and Hilibike are 
beautiful categorical solutions, so perhaps the Homer and Roadini deserve 
their own as well. Food for thought. 

Andrew
On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:09:01 AM UTC-6 Patrick Moore wrote:

> That's frame and fork and headset, folks.
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy hs!!] 
>> with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires and 
>> gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.
>>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell ride- new perspective

[Tom Palmer]

Hi Leah,
It's probably 2 hours from you- 30 minutes north of Muskegon. You are not 
imagining the wonderfulness of the Platypus. I am afraid I will have a 
second one eventually also, well at least my wife is afraid.
It is called Central Cycles and near a very cool Amish bulk food store 
called Whispering Pines. Just north of Holton, MI.
Tom


On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 3:43:36 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I so enjoyed reading this. I will make it my business to get to the shop 
> you mentioned. Can’t be more than a hour or so from me. 
>
> I bet an Amish farmer bike dealer could really sell a pile of Rivendells. 
> New business plan! I’m so pleased you are loving your Platypus. I have 
> raved about the Platy and sometimes wonder if it’s just me. Whew - it isn’t!
> Leah
>
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:39:26 AM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank-you, Tom for sharing. Wonderful story. I enjoyed reading it. 
>> Nothing like leaving good impressions upon bicycle folks out in the country.
>> I, too, hope that upon your retirement that you can work in Joe's shop 
>> and help him grow and flourish his business. 
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 7:28:35 AM UTC-8 Tom Palmer wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Much has been written about the ride of Rivendells being special. I went 
>>> to my local and favorite LBS Saturday in search of grey Newbaums tape to 
>>> wrap the hooks of my flipped Granola bars.  The shop is very unique- owned 
>>> and run by an Amish farmer that started selling primarily to the Amish 
>>> community in 2013. Before 2013 they did not use pedal bikes- only kick 
>>> bikes, like a large wheeled scooter. I stumbled on the shop on a dirt road 
>>> ride 3 years ago- he did not even have a sign until 2020 but had been in 
>>> business for 7 years. I was floored that there was a bike shop 12 miles 
>>> from my home that I did not know about. Back to my point- I brought the 
>>> Platypus with me in order compare to the tape he had. Joe (owner) and his 
>>> 16 year old son I hunt with were interested in the long chain stays and 
>>> bigness of the 60cm Platypus. I asked if he wanted to ride it and he 
>>> declined since his dirt driveway was wet and did not want to get my bike 
>>> dirty. I insisted and he did a quick blast. Michael was next. I did not set 
>>> any expectation for them, I wanted a real opinion. Both were fairly blown 
>>> away by the ride and handling. Both of them work in the shop and ride a lot 
>>> of bikes- they carry Fuji, Breezer, Reid, Salsa, Surly, and others. Bikes 
>>> are also their main mode of local transportation They just did not 
>>> understand how a bike that looked like this could handle so well and feel 
>>> fast.
>>>  It was really cool to see their reaction. 
>>> Joe is very forward thinking in his business, he has the best stock of 
>>> bikes and parts in the area, even more than most of the big shops in nearby 
>>> Grand Rapids. once I retire, I hope to work in his shop and help him grow 
>>> the business. 
>>> Tom Palmer
>>> Twin Lake, MI
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell ride- new perspective

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

I so enjoyed reading this. I will make it my business to get to the shop 
you mentioned. Can’t be more than a hour or so from me. 

I bet an Amish farmer bike dealer could really sell a pile of Rivendells. 
New business plan! I’m so pleased you are loving your Platypus. I have 
raved about the Platy and sometimes wonder if it’s just me. Whew - it isn’t!
Leah

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 11:39:26 AM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank-you, Tom for sharing. Wonderful story. I enjoyed reading it. Nothing 
> like leaving good impressions upon bicycle folks out in the country.
> I, too, hope that upon your retirement that you can work in Joe's shop and 
> help him grow and flourish his business. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 7:28:35 AM UTC-8 Tom Palmer wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>> Much has been written about the ride of Rivendells being special. I went 
>> to my local and favorite LBS Saturday in search of grey Newbaums tape to 
>> wrap the hooks of my flipped Granola bars.  The shop is very unique- owned 
>> and run by an Amish farmer that started selling primarily to the Amish 
>> community in 2013. Before 2013 they did not use pedal bikes- only kick 
>> bikes, like a large wheeled scooter. I stumbled on the shop on a dirt road 
>> ride 3 years ago- he did not even have a sign until 2020 but had been in 
>> business for 7 years. I was floored that there was a bike shop 12 miles 
>> from my home that I did not know about. Back to my point- I brought the 
>> Platypus with me in order compare to the tape he had. Joe (owner) and his 
>> 16 year old son I hunt with were interested in the long chain stays and 
>> bigness of the 60cm Platypus. I asked if he wanted to ride it and he 
>> declined since his dirt driveway was wet and did not want to get my bike 
>> dirty. I insisted and he did a quick blast. Michael was next. I did not set 
>> any expectation for them, I wanted a real opinion. Both were fairly blown 
>> away by the ride and handling. Both of them work in the shop and ride a lot 
>> of bikes- they carry Fuji, Breezer, Reid, Salsa, Surly, and others. Bikes 
>> are also their main mode of local transportation They just did not 
>> understand how a bike that looked like this could handle so well and feel 
>> fast.
>>  It was really cool to see their reaction. 
>> Joe is very forward thinking in his business, he has the best stock of 
>> bikes and parts in the area, even more than most of the big shops in nearby 
>> Grand Rapids. once I retire, I hope to work in his shop and help him grow 
>> the business. 
>> Tom Palmer
>> Twin Lake, MI
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bags like the Grabsack?

[Brian Turner]

Michael, if you like the Swift Ardea pack, their larger hip pack, the Anchor is now on sale for $84, which is a pretty sweet deal.When I ride with a hip pack, the one I use is the Farsik Hip Pack Pro, which is supposed to be 4L, but it doesn’t feel like it. It’s designed very much like the Swift Anchor in that it has on outer flap for securing a jacket or shirt if you need to shed a layer while riding. Here’s a link:Hip Pack Pro 4.3Lfarsik.caOn Jan 10, 2023, at 10:42 AM, Michael Ullmer  wrote:I've been using the Ardea bag from Swift which is near perfect for me, expect in the winter when a few extra accessories are needed. I use it everyday for bike and non-bike use. Ideally, I'd find a bag that this one fits into.Maybe I'll give a Grabsack another try, i think it'd be big enough to fit this one into it.On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 8:21:38 AM UTC-6 captaincon...@gmail.com wrote:I bought two fifth season squall sacks, and I am impressed by their quality and simplicity.  You could get a grab sack and have one of the many outdoor gear repair companies modify it.  There's a lot of cross pollination and up cycling going on.On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:23:25 PM UTC-6 Bikie#4646 wrote:Michael, ditto on the Acorn Basket Bag. While I use a Swift Sugarloaf myself, I have a buddy who has an Acorn basket bag and loves it. (Somewhat smaller than my Sugarloaf, I think.) I am a long-time fan of Acorn and their business model - American cottage industry and pure perfection on their workmanship. I have had a dozen over the years. Nine in rotation currently, since I move some larger bags to storage for summer, when I will bring out smaller bags. All but my mountain bikes typically carry a front and a back bag.BTW, I think they are currently phasing out their X-Pac material bags in favor of their original waxed cotton. What's left of the X-Pac bags went on sale and are priced to sell, including the basket bag. If you want one better jump on it.While many good bag makers have surfaced since they began production, these bags are a bargain, considering the quality. If memory serves me, back then only Carradice could match - and that company lacked models like front bags, since I suppose the English are hardheaded about their saddlebags, ha. (I have owned many of those myself.)Paul GermainMidlothian, Va.On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:12:54 PM UTC-5 Michael Ullmer wrote:Hi all, wondering if anyone has any recommendations for bags like the Riv Grabsack from small-ish makers (i.e. not Timbuk2)? I'm looking for something like the Grabsack in size/function but with a better strap and open/close function.Now with winter here, I need more space for gloves, hat, etc. than my little Swift hipbag can accommodate.Thanks all!Mike in Minneapolis



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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Patrick Moore]

That's frame and fork and headset, folks.

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 10:07 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ..  1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy hs!!]
> with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires and
> gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Patrick Moore]

Andrew: I'm another one interested in your experiences + or - with the
Roadini. So, pray, bear with me while I ask probing questions.

On Tue, Jan 10, 2023 at 9:39 AM Andrew Turner 
wrote:

> ... I bought the Roadini 1 size down thinking it could still be quick but
> extra plush. Long story short me and the Roadini just don't see eye to eye
> at this particular junction.


Please describe in terms of cycling experience -- handling, comfort, "feel"
-- as in whether one sits "on" or "in" the bicycle, sluggishness or
twitchiness, and so on -- what you felt about the 57 cm Roadini.

This time around, I didn't like how neutral it felt whether I was riding
> 8mph or 35mph, it felt underwhelming. Different strokes for different folks
> I suppose.


What exactly do you mean by "neutral" and "underwhelming"? Note: I fully
understand the difference between metaphor and analytical description but
there is a connection between the 2 modes of expression. Please expand on
what you mean by "neutral" and "underwhelming."

I can guess. I had a second-gen Ram. Very nice bike, but I too found it,
while pleasant, in some sense "underwhelming" and excessively "neutral." My
own vocabulary is "staid." By comparison with my benchmark bikes, the Ram,
while superlatively neutral at speed in a straight line (a Riv quality),
was just a bit too slow in turn-in. To use an emotional metaphor: "a wee
bit dull." (Note that my benchmark bike is my 1999 Riv Road custom gofast
fixed gear designed by Grant around light, short 26" wheels.)

But please elaborate. Was I close?

Patrick Moore, who, God willing, will one day build up that much-bruited
early 1970s *tout 531* Libertas [5.9 lb 60 X 56 c-c with steel Campy hs!!]
with 38 mm tires for a road-like pavement gofast combined with tires and
gearing sufficient for firm-dirt explorations.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell-esq fat bike

[Joe D.]

Another question for you Crust Scapegoat owners... Crust released an 
updated version last Fall (https://crustbikes.com/products/scapegoat). 
Compared to the Tumbleweed Prospector,  the new Scapegoat has 1.5 degree 
steeper head tube angle, 1 degree slacker seat tube angle, and the 
wheelbase is 50mm shorter in size L 
(https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=63613a1388731d001d710fb5,61bf4058e6ec02001cccd3cf,).
  
There's also the rocker/sliding dropouts of Scapegoat vs standard 
dropoust/EBB of the Prospector. And the Prospector's ability to run 135mm 
spaced wheels front and back vs Boost spacing of the Scapegoat.

The slacker head tube angle of the Prospector makes me think it'd handle 
singletrack better than the Scapegoat. Any merit to that? Any other ride 
differences you all imagine between the two?


On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:03:30 PM UTC-7 cjus...@gmail.com wrote:

> You guys have it right for ball parking limits based on something in the 
> 26x~4" range based on my experience.
>
> As stated before, my custom Clockwork Dirt Fat 1x (SqT White Industries 
> Road Cranks w/76bcd spider & 1x ring) with narrow Deda stays has a Q of 
> ~180mm and looking at the space needed for tire, space, stays (modern yokes 
> giving a little more here when used), space and arms, 170mm was what I was 
> thinking for theoretical minimum with a SS or Rohloff.  Sounds like Zach is 
> confirming 168mm really pushes that limit.
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 11:32:32 AM UTC-6 Joe D. wrote:
>
>> Thanks Zach! The Tumbleweed is definitely appealing, especially with a 29 
>> x 3 dirt tire and 26 x 4 in winter.
>>
>> I wonder if 26 x 4 with reasonably big rims (64mm or full 80mm) would 
>> work with a modified cassette, like the setup Crust bikes talk about here: 
>> https://www.tumblr.com/crustbikes/159521355676/the-stubby-cassette. I'd 
>> be fine with only 5-7 gears. And I think a Q factor closer to 180-185 would 
>> be ok. It sounds like it'd definitely be a no-go at your Q factor of 174.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 10:23:35 AM UTC-7 Zach Roeder wrote:
>>
>>> I'm using a Shimano XTR M9125-1 with a Q of 174mm on my Rohloff 
>>> Prospector (first generation). With short axle XTR SPD pedals, it feels 
>>> like a 168mm q factor. I've tried several different cranks, and I think 
>>> this is as narrow as you can go. And if you are a super strong rider, maybe 
>>> there's the possibility of the crank hitting the chainstays?
>>>
>>> Clearances are super tight everywhere with 26x4". I'm actually 
>>> considering slightly wider q or smaller tires because I occasionally rub my 
>>> legs on the tires on descents, and it hurts! I love how it pedals for long 
>>> rides though. 
>>> On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 1:33:19 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Laing and Hoch. Once again, confirmed that fatbike Q is more 
 than I care for.



 On Thu, Dec 22, 2022 at 1:09 PM Hoch in ut  wrote:

> For reference, I built a Pugsley years ago with White Industries 
> cranks and custom BB. The narrowest I could get the Q factor was 183mm. 
> That is with about 2-3mm crank clearance. Much narrower than stock but 
> definitely nowhere close to 160. 
>
> On Thursday, December 22, 2022 at 10:48:43 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Bob. Others: If any of youse have this information, would be 
>> very glad to hear it. Thanks.
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2022 at 2:33 PM Bob  wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> I do not, sorry to say. Would like to have those data myself. Anyone 
>>> here have a Prospector, a caliper, and a few minutes to take 
>>> measurements?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Bob
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 1:17:49 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Bob: Do you know how low a Q you can get on the Prospector, 
 Scapegoat, Chimera and Bull Thistle, particularly with a single speed 
 drivetrain (if any accept a ss drivetrain)? I've stayed away from 
 Pugsleys 
 etc because of the Q but if one can be built as a ss with a Q of no 
 more 
 than 160 I'd be very interested for our local sandy trails. As it is, 
 I've 
 been thinking of a 29er+ replacement for my Monocog 29er on which the 
 rear 
 71 mm WTB ranger rubs the stays in corners but fat would be even 
 better if 
 the Q could be sorted. 

 Thanks.

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Re: [RBW] FS: Parts bin cleanout: Selle Anatomica, cassettes, tires, stems, shifters, etc.

[Andrew Turner]

XT cassette is sold
RH tires, Ritchey crankset, and DA shifters are pending

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:00:25 PM UTC-6 BobW wrote:

> Hi Andrew. I’m interested in the crank set & BB. Please contact me off 
> list 
> Thanks!  Bob
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 9, 2023, at 7:28 PM, Andrew Turner  wrote:
>
> Time to clean it out some. Below's a list of some stuff for sale. All 
> prices include the cost of shipping. You can see pics here.  
>  
>
>
>
>
>- 9-speed XT cassette 11-34, unused: $65
>- 9 speed cassette(s) unused 11-30 & 11-32: $40 each 
>- Selle Anatomica saddle X2 used: $100
>- 80mm 31.8 threadless stem(s) 17° & 7°: $30 each
>- Dura-Ace 9-speed downtube shifters unused: $100
>- Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass extralight tanwall tires (pair), unknown 
>mileage but never set up tubeless with all the tread still visible so lots 
>of life left: $100
>- Ritchey 110bcd crankset w/ smooth Octalink BB 50/34 175 crank 
>length: $60 
>
>
> That's it for now 
> - Andrew
>
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> 
> .
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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: New 57cm Roadini Frameset (Orange) + headset, 559 brakes, Nitto seatpost

[Andrew Turner]

Roadini has sold! 

To answer your question, Dan, I had hopes of building it as a 
semi-aggressive fat tire road bike but boy oh boy do Riv's have something 
to say to that. I had a 61cm Roadini in the past during a time when I 
wanted to build a Riv to ride it like a Riv and I loved it. But then I got 
into off-road riding so I hung up road bikes for a while... 

Fast forward to 2022 and I got bit by the vintage crit frame bug and have 
been really enjoying road riding again. We also had our first kid so quick 
20-30 mile rides close to home are ideal so I bought the Roadini 1 size 
down thinking it could still be quick but extra plush. Long story short me 
and the Roadini just don't see eye to eye at this particular junction. This 
time around, I didn't like how neutral it felt whether I was riding 8mph or 
35mph, it felt underwhelming. Different strokes for different folks I 
suppose. 

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:38:02 PM UTC-6 danl...@gmail.com wrote:

> Care to indulge further as to why the Roadini didn't work out for you? I'm 
> looking for one in this size, but I've never ridden one. I'm looking to 
> replace my aggressive fat tire road bike with something a little more chill 
> (and easier on the back), plus it's become mostly redundant with my 
> aggressive fat tire gravel bike.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
> On Mon., Jan. 9, 2023, 5:46 p.m. Andrew Turner,  
> wrote:
>
>> Pictures can be found in my FS album here.  
>>  
>> The only places where there's paint damage are the dropouts and below the 
>> fork crown, so nothing all that visible. This is the 2022 model that fits 
>> up to a 45mm tire.
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 11:33:40 AM UTC-6 alan lavine wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>> PM sent.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Alan
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 1:00:19 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I bought the frameset new from Riv a month ago but after 50 miles of 
 riding I simply do not enjoy the way it rides compared to my other road 
 bike so I'm casting this one back out. It's got the FSA headset installed 
 with some pewter headset spacers from BlueLug, new Tektro 559 brake 
 callipers and a new Nitto S65 300mm seatpost. There's a few paint nicks I 
 gave it because I'm a sloppy mechanic and installing fenders was a 
 wrestling match, but nothing serious or all that visible.  

 I'm pretty bummed it didn't work out for me but I hope it finds a new 
 home! 

 Asking $1375 which will include shipping, DM if you want pics 

 Cheers, 
 Andrew

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>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell ride- new perspective

[Kim Hetzel]

Thank-you, Tom for sharing. Wonderful story. I enjoyed reading it. Nothing 
like leaving good impressions upon bicycle folks out in the country.
I, too, hope that upon your retirement that you can work in Joe's shop and 
help him grow and flourish his business. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA. 

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 7:28:35 AM UTC-8 Tom Palmer wrote:

> Hi all,
> Much has been written about the ride of Rivendells being special. I went 
> to my local and favorite LBS Saturday in search of grey Newbaums tape to 
> wrap the hooks of my flipped Granola bars.  The shop is very unique- owned 
> and run by an Amish farmer that started selling primarily to the Amish 
> community in 2013. Before 2013 they did not use pedal bikes- only kick 
> bikes, like a large wheeled scooter. I stumbled on the shop on a dirt road 
> ride 3 years ago- he did not even have a sign until 2020 but had been in 
> business for 7 years. I was floored that there was a bike shop 12 miles 
> from my home that I did not know about. Back to my point- I brought the 
> Platypus with me in order compare to the tape he had. Joe (owner) and his 
> 16 year old son I hunt with were interested in the long chain stays and 
> bigness of the 60cm Platypus. I asked if he wanted to ride it and he 
> declined since his dirt driveway was wet and did not want to get my bike 
> dirty. I insisted and he did a quick blast. Michael was next. I did not set 
> any expectation for them, I wanted a real opinion. Both were fairly blown 
> away by the ride and handling. Both of them work in the shop and ride a lot 
> of bikes- they carry Fuji, Breezer, Reid, Salsa, Surly, and others. Bikes 
> are also their main mode of local transportation They just did not 
> understand how a bike that looked like this could handle so well and feel 
> fast.
>  It was really cool to see their reaction. 
> Joe is very forward thinking in his business, he has the best stock of 
> bikes and parts in the area, even more than most of the big shops in nearby 
> Grand Rapids. once I retire, I hope to work in his shop and help him grow 
> the business. 
> Tom Palmer
> Twin Lake, MI
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: MUSA Pants and Bar End Shifter Lot

[Michael Ullmer]

Last bump on these shifters, $30 plus shipping

On Wednesday, January 4, 2023 at 4:02:29 PM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:

> Bump on these shifters, $40 plus shipping
>
> On Tuesday, January 3, 2023 at 6:29:40 PM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>
>> MUSA pants sold
>>
>> On Monday, January 2, 2023 at 10:24:55 PM UTC-6 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>>
>>> 2023 is the year of simplicity and cleaning out the unnecessaries. 
>>> Here's my first cut, prices are net to me and don't include shipping. I'll 
>>> ship using Pirateship.
>>>
>>> 1) Riv MUSA Pants in Coyote Size Medium - $75
>>> --I bought these and just don't like the fit compared to the earlier 
>>> Bik-R-Slakz that I have. I wore these about a half dozen times total.
>>>
>>> 2) Bar End Shifter Lot - $50
>>> --These are the unused bar ends not destined for a project. There's two 
>>> left shifters that function just fine. The 9 speed right shifter has broken 
>>> internals and is essentially there for parts. There's also a single suntour 
>>> bar end that functions fine, but needs the expanding bolt from one of the 
>>> others.
>>>
>>> Pics here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/uz2uvZVcSToCYNa69
>>>
>>> PM off-list
>>>
>>

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[RBW] WTB: Riv Grabsack

[Michael Ullmer]

Following on my other thread, anyone have one that they're intrested in 
selling or trading for a grid-grey medium shopsack?

Mike in Minneapolis

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[RBW] Re: Bags like the Grabsack?

[Michael Ullmer]

I've been using the Ardea bag from Swift which is near perfect for me, 
expect in the winter when a few extra accessories are needed. I use it 
everyday for bike and non-bike use. Ideally, I'd find a bag that this one 
fits into.

Maybe I'll give a Grabsack another try, i think it'd be big enough to fit 
this one into it.

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 8:21:38 AM UTC-6 captaincon...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I bought two fifth season squall sacks, and I am impressed by their 
> quality and simplicity.  You could get a grab sack and have one of the many 
> outdoor gear repair companies modify it.  There's a lot of cross 
> pollination and up cycling going on.
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:23:25 PM UTC-6 Bikie#4646 wrote:
>
>> Michael, ditto on the Acorn Basket Bag. While I use a Swift Sugarloaf 
>> myself, I have a buddy who has an Acorn basket bag and loves it. (Somewhat 
>> smaller than my Sugarloaf, I think.) 
>> I am a long-time fan of Acorn and their business model - American cottage 
>> industry and pure perfection on their workmanship. I have had a dozen over 
>> the years. Nine in rotation currently, since I move some larger bags to 
>> storage for summer, when I will bring out smaller bags. All but my mountain 
>> bikes typically carry a front and a back bag.
>> BTW, I think they are currently phasing out their X-Pac material bags in 
>> favor of their original waxed cotton. What's left of the X-Pac bags went on 
>> sale and are priced to sell, including the basket bag. If you want one 
>> better jump on it.
>> While many good bag makers have surfaced since they began production, 
>> these bags are a bargain, considering the quality. If memory serves me, 
>> back then only Carradice could match - and that company lacked models like 
>> front bags, since I suppose the English are hardheaded about their 
>> saddlebags, ha. (I have owned many of those myself.)
>> Paul Germain
>> Midlothian, Va.
>>
>> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:12:54 PM UTC-5 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all, wondering if anyone has any recommendations for bags like the 
>>> Riv Grabsack from small-ish makers (i.e. not Timbuk2)? I'm looking for 
>>> something like the Grabsack in size/function but with a better strap and 
>>> open/close function.
>>>
>>> Now with winter here, I need more space for gloves, hat, etc. than my 
>>> little Swift hipbag can accommodate.
>>>
>>> Thanks all!
>>> Mike in Minneapolis
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Rivendell ride- new perspective

[Tom Palmer]

Hi all,
Much has been written about the ride of Rivendells being special. I went to 
my local and favorite LBS Saturday in search of grey Newbaums tape to wrap 
the hooks of my flipped Granola bars.  The shop is very unique- owned and 
run by an Amish farmer that started selling primarily to the Amish 
community in 2013. Before 2013 they did not use pedal bikes- only kick 
bikes, like a large wheeled scooter. I stumbled on the shop on a dirt road 
ride 3 years ago- he did not even have a sign until 2020 but had been in 
business for 7 years. I was floored that there was a bike shop 12 miles 
from my home that I did not know about. Back to my point- I brought the 
Platypus with me in order compare to the tape he had. Joe (owner) and his 
16 year old son I hunt with were interested in the long chain stays and 
bigness of the 60cm Platypus. I asked if he wanted to ride it and he 
declined since his dirt driveway was wet and did not want to get my bike 
dirty. I insisted and he did a quick blast. Michael was next. I did not set 
any expectation for them, I wanted a real opinion. Both were fairly blown 
away by the ride and handling. Both of them work in the shop and ride a lot 
of bikes- they carry Fuji, Breezer, Reid, Salsa, Surly, and others. Bikes 
are also their main mode of local transportation They just did not 
understand how a bike that looked like this could handle so well and feel 
fast.
 It was really cool to see their reaction. 
Joe is very forward thinking in his business, he has the best stock of 
bikes and parts in the area, even more than most of the big shops in nearby 
Grand Rapids. once I retire, I hope to work in his shop and help him grow 
the business. 
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI

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[RBW] Re: Mermaid Platypus bar tape match help

[Doug H.]

Tom,
I think the black looks great with the frame color. Have you considered 
adding a splash of color with colored chainring bolts and/or colored crank 
bolt cap?
Doug

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 10:05:40 AM UTC-5 Tom Palmer wrote:

> Hi all,
> Swapped the seatpost, brake levers, and stem adapter for more black. 
> Ordered some Grey Newbaums and will wrap when it comes in and decide on 
> shellach then.
> here is a picture of almost latest build, I took the front basket off and 
> have a repurposed military surplus bag on the handlebars. Rode this morning 
> with the front bag and handled a little better than with basket, I will be 
> keeping it for now at least.
> Thanks again for the ideas,
> Tom
>
> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 6:42:14 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I just noticed on the Campandgoslow website that both tapes are 
>> restocked. ..
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA. 
>>
>> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 3:38:59 PM UTC-8 Kim Hetzel wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> May I suggest this bar tape:
>>> https://www.campandgoslow.com/product/eastern-rattler-bar-tape
>>> If you are unable to find it, PM me and I will tell you where.
>>>
>>>
>>> I have the Western Rattler bar tape on my Clem Smith Jr. "L" bike. It 
>>> looks really cool. Today, I wrapped the handlebars of the same tape. 
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 2:57:20 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Tom, 

 I'm with Leah on this, but I'm biased towards the "let's throw more 
 color at it!" vibe on her bikes. Back in the day when I rode them I liked 
 a 
 dropbsr bike to have a big smashing color for the bar wrap that didn't 
 really match anything else on the frame; I think liime on the front of an 
 otherwise mermaid/black Platy would be sweet. 

 Joe Bernard 

 On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 2:03:38 PM UTC-8 Tom Palmer wrote:

> Thanks for the ideas. I like the grey bar wrap - the pedals are grey 
> and it looks nice with the mermaid. I will have  it way more blacked out 
> soon- seat post, headset, and brake levers.  
> Looking forward to some wrench time tomorrow,
> Tom
>  
>
> On Friday, January 6, 2023 at 4:09:02 PM UTC-5 aeroperf wrote:
>
>> I go with Eric.  I tried to match blue cable housing with the blue on 
>> a Homer.  It didn’t quite work (photo)
>> Meanwhile the black of the seat, fenders, front drive, all looked 
>> pretty good.
>> If I had it to do it over I’d put black cable housing ends on grey 
>> cable housing on that build.
>> On our mermaid Platy I’ll use silver housing ends on grey housing and 
>> see how that looks.
>> Love Eric’s light grey Newbaum’s with the grey housing.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[Bill Schairer]

I have a set of cantilevers and a set of center pulls, both purchased used 
off this list, I think.  What I really like about both sets is how easy it 
is to disconnect and re-connect the straddle cables making wheel removal 
and installation so much easier.  Even though I didn't pay full retail they 
were still quite pricey compared to what I had.  I don't regret my 
purchases at all.

Bill S
San Diego

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:29:03 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Paul brakes are worth it. 
>
> If you buy, try and decide you don't like them you can sell them for close 
> to what you paid!
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 12:22:34 PM UTC-5 Jay Riley wrote:
>
>> PS: I'll always keep hydro brakes on the dual-suspension mtn bike.  
>> They're cool!  The braking assignment is short, severe braking loads, as 
>> opposed to braking loads on a road or touring bike.
>>
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:44 PM Jay Riley  wrote:
>>
>>> "the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls" has sent me 
>>> back to cables and calipers on 2 of my bikes.  Especially if I'm in hilly 
>>> and mountainous terrain, especially especially when touring with moderate 
>>> loads (35lbs) in that terrain, disc-brake pads wear out way faster than ol' 
>>> fashioned brake pads.  Hydraulic discs are super easy to squeeze and 
>>> modulate, and although my thumbs are already arthritic I can still stop 
>>> just fine w'cable brakes.  
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Jay Riley, mobile 603-498-5199 <(603)%20498-5199>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 8:24 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, good to know.

 On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 6:06 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Klampers are great, the couple hydraulic systems I've tried (stock on 
> new bikes, I don't remember the brands) were marginally greater on the 
> road 
> but not worth the extra complication (bleeding) over the cable Pauls. 
> Your 
> results may vary on steep, rocky descents I don't ride. 
>
> Joe Bernard 
>
> On Thursday, January 5, 2023 at 4:46:22 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Philip: Can you (or can anyone else for that matter) say how the 
>> Klampers perform compared to TRP Hy Rds or to full hydraulics? I was 
>> just 
>> talking to my brother about the Hy Rds and wondering if the Kampers 
>> would 
>> be as powerful and modulate as well without the hydraulic complication.
>>
>> The Klampers have single-side pad actuation, right?
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 5, 2023 at 3:36 PM Philip Williamson <
>> philip.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ... I do have a set of NIB Klampers I considered building a bike 
>>> around, but went with yet another canti-post bike (a Bruce Gordon, 
>>> woot!). 
>>>
>>
>>> Philip 
>>> Sonoma County, Calif (did it really just stop raining?) 
>>>
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> 
> .
>


 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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>>>

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[RBW] Re: Bags like the Grabsack?

[Conway Bennett]

I bought two fifth season squall sacks, and I am impressed by their quality 
and simplicity.  You could get a grab sack and have one of the many outdoor 
gear repair companies modify it.  There's a lot of cross pollination and up 
cycling going on.

On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 9:23:25 PM UTC-6 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> Michael, ditto on the Acorn Basket Bag. While I use a Swift Sugarloaf 
> myself, I have a buddy who has an Acorn basket bag and loves it. (Somewhat 
> smaller than my Sugarloaf, I think.) 
> I am a long-time fan of Acorn and their business model - American cottage 
> industry and pure perfection on their workmanship. I have had a dozen over 
> the years. Nine in rotation currently, since I move some larger bags to 
> storage for summer, when I will bring out smaller bags. All but my mountain 
> bikes typically carry a front and a back bag.
> BTW, I think they are currently phasing out their X-Pac material bags in 
> favor of their original waxed cotton. What's left of the X-Pac bags went on 
> sale and are priced to sell, including the basket bag. If you want one 
> better jump on it.
> While many good bag makers have surfaced since they began production, 
> these bags are a bargain, considering the quality. If memory serves me, 
> back then only Carradice could match - and that company lacked models like 
> front bags, since I suppose the English are hardheaded about their 
> saddlebags, ha. (I have owned many of those myself.)
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 5:12:54 PM UTC-5 Michael Ullmer wrote:
>
>> Hi all, wondering if anyone has any recommendations for bags like the Riv 
>> Grabsack from small-ish makers (i.e. not Timbuk2)? I'm looking for 
>> something like the Grabsack in size/function but with a better strap and 
>> open/close function.
>>
>> Now with winter here, I need more space for gloves, hat, etc. than my 
>> little Swift hipbag can accommodate.
>>
>> Thanks all!
>> Mike in Minneapolis
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Gus and Susie ride off into the sunset

[Ryan Frahm]

I run a 172 on my Susie and it is plenty high with the 2.5” for some pretty 
chunky terrain. I have a 170 on my Clem with 2” and it is about an inch 
lower. These bikes are so long that I understand wanting a bit more 
clearance but if a 170 is comfortable I think the bike is high enough to 
pedal through anything these bikes can pedal through. I’m still getting 
used to the Susie as a mountain bike really. Chunky climbs are tough for me 
because if I get off the seat at all, instant loss of traction. Pedal 
strikes hasn’t been an issue at all though. 

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 5:58:06 AM UTC-8 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Fair point(s). As you can imagine, the full suspension bike has a pretty 
> high bb, though not as high as current comparable bikes. I rarely 
> experienced pedal strokes even pedaling through stuff that at my age I 
> probably should not be doing!:)
> I just looked at available solutions & thought it might be beneficial to 
> shorten the cranks on the Gus to approximate the clearance I enjoyed on the 
> suspension bike. To do so would require a 550mm crank arm.
> To be honest, I had one particular & disconcerting pedal strike riding the 
> Clem that really got my attention. This was a very familiar sweeping turn 
> but off camber section that I always pedal through. The pedal dug into the 
> uphill side of the bank & I nearly crashed. It was just so unexpected. I’ve 
> accepted the notion that I may have to ride a bit slower & less aggressive 
> than I am used to. But to the degree that I can minimize these things with 
> the right choice now seems smart.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 10, 2023, at 8:01 AM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I understand your intent to avoid crank or pedal contact, but personally I 
> wouldn’t base my crank length on the potential for pedal strikes on rocks 
> and roots. In this case, I would fall into the camp of being conscious of 
> the terrain, refining your technique, and being mindful of your own 
> personal skill level. If you’re getting lots of strikes with say, a 170mm 
> or 165mm crank, I wouldn’t be confident that going even shorter than that 
> is going to necessarily solve your issue.
>
> On Jan 10, 2023, at 7:45 AM, Richard Rose  wrote:
>
> Legit question. I am moving from a full suspension trail bike to the Gus. 
> I have ridden my Clem (27.5 x 2.25) with 173mm cranks and have been 
> reminded of how alarming pedal strokes can be! But, I really enjoy the 
> trail experience on the Clem otherwise. I realize the Gus has a slightly 
> higher BB than the Clem & the Gus is 29 x 2.6. So yes, I am trying to be 
> mitigate possible problems. I like the Silver crank on the Clem but I will 
> likely use a 165mm Crank on the Gus. But, I am watching with keen interest 
> the increasing availability of even shorter cranks.
> And yes, I know technique comes into play here, and I am looking forward 
> to refining mine.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 10, 2023, at 12:01 AM, iamkeith  wrote:
>
> 
>
> On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 4:59:23 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I am feeling so very lucky to have found a Gus. On the subject of 
>> Gus/Susie bikes; who among us are using a crankset with shorter than 165mm 
>> cranks in an effort to improve pedal clearance on rough trails? I’ve been 
>> researching available cranks and finding interesting possible benefits 
>> other than pedal clearance.
>>
>>
> Have you tried a longer crank, or are you just building yours up for the 
> first time and assuming you'll want more clearance?  (Based perhaps on 
> experience with other rivendell models.)  My single conplaint about my 
> Susie is that the botgom bracket is too high.  Its not at all like my Clem 
> or my other most-ridden mountain bikes from other companies, that are all 
> much lower..  I've probably  learned to adjust my pedaling technique from 
> previous experience, and my huge 2.8 tires probably have something to do 
> with it too but, in case you haven't done so, you should try it with 
> normal/long* cranks to see if it is really an issue. (*mine are 175)
>
> On topic - it is definitely sad to see these go.  Grant orginally said 
> that it might only be the first batch that was fillet brazed, but didn't 
> suggest that the models would just "disappear."  Seems a shame to throw in 
> the towel and not keep them going in some form, even if they're just 
> tigged.  That's how the Charlie Gallop - with similar top tube curve -  
> will be built, right?  With the Clem(entine) moving further away from its 
> original mountain/hill bike concept, and with the Hunquapillar long gone, 
> this just feels like a slot that needs filled to me.
>  
>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Apparently the fillets cost more to do, the Gus/Susie are already $250 
>> more than the lugged frames and were going to go higher if they did another 
>> run. These are great frames, if money/opportunity ever lines u

Re: [RBW] Re: Gus and Susie ride off into the sunset

[Brian Turner]

The following is a quote from Will at Rivendell, from some email 
correspondence early last year regarding the Gus/Susie availability. He 
didn't mention anything about production costs, but that makes sense to me.

"We have one more small run of them coming sometime late this year... and 
after that they're discontinued. We plan to bring the hillibike concept 
back, but it'll be an amalgamation of both the Gus and the Susie so we 
don't have to get two models at once."

Personally, I always found it a bit odd that they made two such similar 
models in the Gus and Susie concept. I understand the Gus completely, but 
Susie seemed a bit redundant given that basically everything anyone would 
want in a Susie could be found in the Clem L, and you could make an 
argument that the Clem L is a more capable, versatile (and sturdy?) frame 
given all the weird qualifying weight limitations that were imposed on the 
Susie, despite it looking very much like the Gus and offering what seemed 
to be more ATB-ness than other Riv models (which of course is highly 
subjective).

I'm very curious as to what the future holds for the lineage of the 
Hillibike!

On Tuesday, January 10, 2023 at 8:46:24 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:

> "The last of the fillet brazed frames". I take that for what it says, it 
> doesn't say or even infer there will be no more such frames at all. 
>
> Ride on  The Sun never sets 
>
> In regards to short cranks, I'm 6'-2" and change and I ride 150mm cranks 
> and have for about a decade. I originally rode some Sugino 152's but after 
> breaking two of those I sought out something different and went to 
> Bikesmithdesign.com, whose speciality is shortening suitable cranks. He's 
> very specific in what can and can't be shortened, and offers certain models 
> of stock cranks that he custom shortens. I bought the gloss black Andel 
> 110/74 triple shortened to 150mm. It's the model RSC6. It also formerly 
> came stock on Surly LHT's. It's also sold as the Dimension Cross crank arm 
> set. 
>
> I also bought the 150mm SRAM 600(also black) 104/64 for my Susie, though 
> still unridden. 
>
> If you wonder why a tall rider with size 14 feet would use short cranks 
> the reason is simple, 175 and 185mm cranks never lived up to what that 
> those long crank theories theorize they offer. Moving my foot more over the 
> pedal was a revelation when I first tried it, but with 185mm cranks it 
> didn't feel right(too far forward), so I tried 175 and 170, but even those 
> felt goofy, so I saw the 152 Sugino and everything just worked. Too bad 
> they broke though, but good thing I tried the Andel as it feels notably 
> stiffer, and it doesn't have that silly backwards 5th bolt. 
>
> Andel is large crank manufacturer (andel.tw) and makes these RSC6 cranks 
> stock from 150mm on up, in silver and black, double and triple.  I 
> contacted the company in Taiwan and I could order some arm sets from them 
> direct. The language difference left much to desire though, and while they 
> quoted me a price and everything, going about how to actually finalize an 
> order was lost in translation, so to  speak. So I held off for now.
>
> On my road bike I ride 150mm 110 double Origin8 cranks, which I also like 
> very much. If these were offered in triple I'd ride those too. Origin8 
> makes a short 130/74 but it's only offered in 145mm and 155mm and the 
> cranks arms are not the same design as the doubles. 
>
> There are many other crank makers that offer short cranks too. High Sierra 
> Cycle(hscyle.com) is a long standing manufacturer of cranks of all sorts 
> of lengths, and they make the Ritchey cranks and offer the same version 
> unbranded for notably less $$. SRAM has offered 155mm MTB cranks for a 
> number of years. Davinci has some nice cranks also down to 150mm. There's 
> also other short BMX and cranks marketed as "kids"(though suitable for 
> adults). There's more but that's enough for here. When I take a dive in 
> rabbit hole  I'm all in . ))) 
>
> So what I experience using 150mm cranks and a more forward position over 
> the pedal is both ease of spinning and leverage. For me, it's the best of 
> both worlds, so to speak the leverage of a long crank and the spin ease 
> and speed of a short one. I used to have to climb standing quite a bit, but 
> with this I'm perfectly at ease doing either standing or sitting. I ride on 
> "normal" flat pedals, the VP Vice, combined with Altra Lone Peak trail 
> running shoes. My "motive" was all intuitional. Like finding your way 
> through the Forest when there are no obvious trails. . The Way is there 
>  it's nearer than your nose . where you're not looking ))). 
>
> Hey ... Don't ride like me, ride as Yourself ))) THAT is where the Fun is 
> .  
>
> The BB drop on the Susie is 70mm, at least, if I recall. Myself, I 
> wouldn't change a working-for-me crank length out of fear of strikes. Fear 
> is the invalid.. not the Rider. I bought the Susie

Re: [RBW] Re: Gus and Susie ride off into the sunset

[Richard Rose]

Fair point(s). As you can imagine, the full suspension bike has a pretty high bb, though not as high as current comparable bikes. I rarely experienced pedal strokes even pedaling through stuff that at my age I probably should not be doing!:)I just looked at available solutions & thought it might be beneficial to shorten the cranks on the Gus to approximate the clearance I enjoyed on the suspension bike. To do so would require a 550mm crank arm.To be honest, I had one particular & disconcerting pedal strike riding the Clem that really got my attention. This was a very familiar sweeping turn but off camber section that I always pedal through. The pedal dug into the uphill side of the bank & I nearly crashed. It was just so unexpected. I’ve accepted the notion that I may have to ride a bit slower & less aggressive than I am used to. But to the degree that I can minimize these things with the right choice now seems smart.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 10, 2023, at 8:01 AM, Brian Turner  wrote:I understand your intent to avoid crank or pedal contact, but personally I wouldn’t base my crank length on the potential for pedal strikes on rocks and roots. In this case, I would fall into the camp of being conscious of the terrain, refining your technique, and being mindful of your own personal skill level. If you’re getting lots of strikes with say, a 170mm or 165mm crank, I wouldn’t be confident that going even shorter than that is going to necessarily solve your issue.On Jan 10, 2023, at 7:45 AM, Richard Rose  wrote:Legit question. I am moving from a full suspension trail bike to the Gus. I have ridden my Clem (27.5 x 2.25) with 173mm cranks and have been reminded of how alarming pedal strokes can be! But, I really enjoy the trail experience on the Clem otherwise. I realize the Gus has a slightly higher BB than the Clem & the Gus is 29 x 2.6. So yes, I am trying to be mitigate possible problems. I like the Silver crank on the Clem but I will likely use a 165mm Crank on the Gus. But, I am watching with keen interest the increasing availability of even shorter cranks.And yes, I know technique comes into play here, and I am looking forward to refining mine.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 10, 2023, at 12:01 AM, iamkeith  wrote:On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 4:59:23 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:I am feeling so very lucky to have found a Gus. On the subject of Gus/Susie bikes; who among us are using a crankset with shorter than 165mm cranks in an effort to improve pedal clearance on rough trails? I’ve been researching available cranks and finding interesting possible benefits other than pedal clearance.Have you tried a longer crank, or are you just building yours up for the first time and assuming you'll want more clearance?  (Based perhaps on experience with other rivendell models.)  My single conplaint about my Susie is that the botgom bracket is too high.  Its not at all like my Clem or my other most-ridden mountain bikes from other companies, that are all much lower..  I've probably  learned to adjust my pedaling technique from previous experience, and my huge 2.8 tires probably have something to do with it too but, in case you haven't done so, you should try it with normal/long* cranks to see if it is really an issue. (*mine are 175)On topic - it is definitely sad to see these go.  Grant orginally said that it might only be the first batch that was fillet brazed, but didn't suggest that the models would just "disappear."  Seems a shame to throw in the towel and not keep them going in some form, even if they're just tigged.  That's how the Charlie Gallop - with similar top tube curve -  will be built, right?  With the Clem(entine) moving further away from its original mountain/hill bike concept, and with the Hunquapillar long gone, this just feels like a slot that needs filled to me. Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 8, 2023, at 11:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:Apparently the fillets cost more to do, the Gus/Susie are already $250 more than the lugged frames and were going to go higher if they did another run. These are great frames, if money/opportunity ever lines up for me I'm going to grab a Gus. If you want one now and have the cash, buy it! Joe Bernard On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 8:18:04 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:Yeah, I guess the frame builders prefer making lugged framesets over fillet brazing. Too bad, but looking forward to the bike Riv makes that’s sorta between the Susie & Gus. On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 7:32:22 PM UTC-8 Paul M wrote:If you read the current Rivendell Blahg (Grants blog) he mentions that the last fillet brazed Hillibikes, the Gus & Susie shipment that just arrived, will be it for that those models being made. So last chance at owning a beautiful ATB frameset.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Gus and Susie ride off into the sunset

[Garth]

"The last of the fillet brazed frames". I take that for what it says, it 
doesn't say or even infer there will be no more such frames at all. 

Ride on  The Sun never sets 

In regards to short cranks, I'm 6'-2" and change and I ride 150mm cranks 
and have for about a decade. I originally rode some Sugino 152's but after 
breaking two of those I sought out something different and went to 
Bikesmithdesign.com, whose speciality is shortening suitable cranks. He's 
very specific in what can and can't be shortened, and offers certain models 
of stock cranks that he custom shortens. I bought the gloss black Andel 
110/74 triple shortened to 150mm. It's the model RSC6. It also formerly 
came stock on Surly LHT's. It's also sold as the Dimension Cross crank arm 
set. 

I also bought the 150mm SRAM 600(also black) 104/64 for my Susie, though 
still unridden. 

If you wonder why a tall rider with size 14 feet would use short cranks the 
reason is simple, 175 and 185mm cranks never lived up to what that those 
long crank theories theorize they offer. Moving my foot more over the pedal 
was a revelation when I first tried it, but with 185mm cranks it didn't 
feel right(too far forward), so I tried 175 and 170, but even those felt 
goofy, so I saw the 152 Sugino and everything just worked. Too bad they 
broke though, but good thing I tried the Andel as it feels notably stiffer, 
and it doesn't have that silly backwards 5th bolt. 

Andel is large crank manufacturer (andel.tw) and makes these RSC6 cranks 
stock from 150mm on up, in silver and black, double and triple.  I 
contacted the company in Taiwan and I could order some arm sets from them 
direct. The language difference left much to desire though, and while they 
quoted me a price and everything, going about how to actually finalize an 
order was lost in translation, so to  speak. So I held off for now.

On my road bike I ride 150mm 110 double Origin8 cranks, which I also like 
very much. If these were offered in triple I'd ride those too. Origin8 
makes a short 130/74 but it's only offered in 145mm and 155mm and the 
cranks arms are not the same design as the doubles. 

There are many other crank makers that offer short cranks too. High Sierra 
Cycle(hscyle.com) is a long standing manufacturer of cranks of all sorts of 
lengths, and they make the Ritchey cranks and offer the same version 
unbranded for notably less $$. SRAM has offered 155mm MTB cranks for a 
number of years. Davinci has some nice cranks also down to 150mm. There's 
also other short BMX and cranks marketed as "kids"(though suitable for 
adults). There's more but that's enough for here. When I take a dive in 
rabbit hole  I'm all in . ))) 

So what I experience using 150mm cranks and a more forward position over 
the pedal is both ease of spinning and leverage. For me, it's the best of 
both worlds, so to speak the leverage of a long crank and the spin ease 
and speed of a short one. I used to have to climb standing quite a bit, but 
with this I'm perfectly at ease doing either standing or sitting. I ride on 
"normal" flat pedals, the VP Vice, combined with Altra Lone Peak trail 
running shoes. My "motive" was all intuitional. Like finding your way 
through the Forest when there are no obvious trails. . The Way is there 
 it's nearer than your nose . where you're not looking ))). 

Hey ... Don't ride like me, ride as Yourself ))) THAT is where the Fun is 
.  

The BB drop on the Susie is 70mm, at least, if I recall. Myself, I wouldn't 
change a working-for-me crank length out of fear of strikes. Fear is the 
invalid.. not the Rider. I bought the Susie full well knowing that it 
had a higher BB as my Bombadil has a 80mm drop and I can't say it offers 
anything special. I get the idea behind it, but that doesn't make it 
likable/suitable for everyone. I also didn't dig the Clem-L-entine look 
myself  it looks like a girls bike. I also am not sold on the mega stay 
thing, or  well .. I could go on and on...(laughing). Don't have a 
reactionary cow ... or do for that matter I'm just being honest and 
nothing is going to change that. 


On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 6:59:23 PM UTC-5 rmro wrote:

> I am feeling so very lucky to have found a Gus. On the subject of 
> Gus/Susie bikes; who among us are using a crankset with shorter than 165mm 
> cranks in an effort to improve pedal clearance on rough trails? I’ve been 
> researching available cranks and finding interesting possible benefits 
> other than pedal clearance.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Gus and Susie ride off into the sunset

[Brian Turner]

I understand your intent to avoid crank or pedal contact, but personally I wouldn’t base my crank length on the potential for pedal strikes on rocks and roots. In this case, I would fall into the camp of being conscious of the terrain, refining your technique, and being mindful of your own personal skill level. If you’re getting lots of strikes with say, a 170mm or 165mm crank, I wouldn’t be confident that going even shorter than that is going to necessarily solve your issue.On Jan 10, 2023, at 7:45 AM, Richard Rose  wrote:Legit question. I am moving from a full suspension trail bike to the Gus. I have ridden my Clem (27.5 x 2.25) with 173mm cranks and have been reminded of how alarming pedal strokes can be! But, I really enjoy the trail experience on the Clem otherwise. I realize the Gus has a slightly higher BB than the Clem & the Gus is 29 x 2.6. So yes, I am trying to be mitigate possible problems. I like the Silver crank on the Clem but I will likely use a 165mm Crank on the Gus. But, I am watching with keen interest the increasing availability of even shorter cranks.And yes, I know technique comes into play here, and I am looking forward to refining mine.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 10, 2023, at 12:01 AM, iamkeith  wrote:On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 4:59:23 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:I am feeling so very lucky to have found a Gus. On the subject of Gus/Susie bikes; who among us are using a crankset with shorter than 165mm cranks in an effort to improve pedal clearance on rough trails? I’ve been researching available cranks and finding interesting possible benefits other than pedal clearance.Have you tried a longer crank, or are you just building yours up for the first time and assuming you'll want more clearance?  (Based perhaps on experience with other rivendell models.)  My single conplaint about my Susie is that the botgom bracket is too high.  Its not at all like my Clem or my other most-ridden mountain bikes from other companies, that are all much lower..  I've probably  learned to adjust my pedaling technique from previous experience, and my huge 2.8 tires probably have something to do with it too but, in case you haven't done so, you should try it with normal/long* cranks to see if it is really an issue. (*mine are 175)On topic - it is definitely sad to see these go.  Grant orginally said that it might only be the first batch that was fillet brazed, but didn't suggest that the models would just "disappear."  Seems a shame to throw in the towel and not keep them going in some form, even if they're just tigged.  That's how the Charlie Gallop - with similar top tube curve -  will be built, right?  With the Clem(entine) moving further away from its original mountain/hill bike concept, and with the Hunquapillar long gone, this just feels like a slot that needs filled to me. Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 8, 2023, at 11:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:Apparently the fillets cost more to do, the Gus/Susie are already $250 more than the lugged frames and were going to go higher if they did another run. These are great frames, if money/opportunity ever lines up for me I'm going to grab a Gus. If you want one now and have the cash, buy it! Joe Bernard On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 8:18:04 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:Yeah, I guess the frame builders prefer making lugged framesets over fillet brazing. Too bad, but looking forward to the bike Riv makes that’s sorta between the Susie & Gus. On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 7:32:22 PM UTC-8 Paul M wrote:If you read the current Rivendell Blahg (Grants blog) he mentions that the last fillet brazed Hillibikes, the Gus & Susie shipment that just arrived, will be it for that those models being made. So last chance at owning a beautiful ATB frameset.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Gus and Susie ride off into the sunset

[Richard Rose]

Legit question. I am moving from a full suspension trail bike to the Gus. I have ridden my Clem (27.5 x 2.25) with 173mm cranks and have been reminded of how alarming pedal strokes can be! But, I really enjoy the trail experience on the Clem otherwise. I realize the Gus has a slightly higher BB than the Clem & the Gus is 29 x 2.6. So yes, I am trying to be mitigate possible problems. I like the Silver crank on the Clem but I will likely use a 165mm Crank on the Gus. But, I am watching with keen interest the increasing availability of even shorter cranks.And yes, I know technique comes into play here, and I am looking forward to refining mine.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 10, 2023, at 12:01 AM, iamkeith  wrote:On Monday, January 9, 2023 at 4:59:23 PM UTC-7 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:I am feeling so very lucky to have found a Gus. On the subject of Gus/Susie bikes; who among us are using a crankset with shorter than 165mm cranks in an effort to improve pedal clearance on rough trails? I’ve been researching available cranks and finding interesting possible benefits other than pedal clearance.Have you tried a longer crank, or are you just building yours up for the first time and assuming you'll want more clearance?  (Based perhaps on experience with other rivendell models.)  My single conplaint about my Susie is that the botgom bracket is too high.  Its not at all like my Clem or my other most-ridden mountain bikes from other companies, that are all much lower..  I've probably  learned to adjust my pedaling technique from previous experience, and my huge 2.8 tires probably have something to do with it too but, in case you haven't done so, you should try it with normal/long* cranks to see if it is really an issue. (*mine are 175)On topic - it is definitely sad to see these go.  Grant orginally said that it might only be the first batch that was fillet brazed, but didn't suggest that the models would just "disappear."  Seems a shame to throw in the towel and not keep them going in some form, even if they're just tigged.  That's how the Charlie Gallop - with similar top tube curve -  will be built, right?  With the Clem(entine) moving further away from its original mountain/hill bike concept, and with the Hunquapillar long gone, this just feels like a slot that needs filled to me. Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 8, 2023, at 11:52 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:Apparently the fillets cost more to do, the Gus/Susie are already $250 more than the lugged frames and were going to go higher if they did another run. These are great frames, if money/opportunity ever lines up for me I'm going to grab a Gus. If you want one now and have the cash, buy it! Joe Bernard On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 8:18:04 PM UTC-8 Luke Hendrickson wrote:Yeah, I guess the frame builders prefer making lugged framesets over fillet brazing. Too bad, but looking forward to the bike Riv makes that’s sorta between the Susie & Gus. On Sunday, January 8, 2023 at 7:32:22 PM UTC-8 Paul M wrote:If you read the current Rivendell Blahg (Grants blog) he mentions that the last fillet brazed Hillibikes, the Gus & Susie shipment that just arrived, will be it for that those models being made. So last chance at owning a beautiful ATB frameset.



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[RBW] Re: Sharing Your Winter Ride Fotos 2023

[Takashi]

Thank you Garth.
Yes, it was indeed "Midnight Sun." When I looked up and stared at the moon 
it was almost blinding.

Dorothy, riding in winter rain is much tougher than in snow IMHO.
And your Clem looks like the embodiment of what Grant was thinking when he 
designed them.

Jamin, they're beautiful photos!
Those steep mountains look very much like what we have here in Japan. Looks 
like quite a workout if you want to enjoy the view.

Ted, I'm sorry to hear that. And that's definitely a Winter Ride Foto!

Piaw, I was able to see photos without an Amazon account. That collapsed 
car!
I agree that riding a closed road is pleasant.


Takashi

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