Re: Music database [was: Re: Memory Lane]
Aley Keprt wrote: [...] I don't know AZX. How you can use it? For AY data, or SAA data. If you would like to use it for SAA data, there's no reason of using it. AZX is not for Sam. Really ? Why ? You've just told you do not know what is AZX, didn't you ? Yea, but I'm not completely stupid and can figure what AZX could be supposed for. Sure, AZX files are LARGE compared against AY files, but what can stop you from developing your own custom blocks format especially for Sam ? Just do not forget to follow rules from basic AZX format specifications. I'm affraid somebody like you come tomorrow and bring .DOC (from MS Word) file format with some extra chunks for Sam screen shots. Yes, it will work, but wasn't .DOC meant for Word documents? Wasn't AZX meant for something like AudioZXspectrum? There's absolutely no reason for strictly following AZX specs. The only think you definitely do is that users won't be able to simply distinguish between Sam and ZXS music files and many of them will be confused because their player will say: This file's unknown format. Is this what you really want? [ If you would take zx48k snapshot file format and enhance it for zx128k, it's clever and straightforward idea. But please don't enhance it more to meet Sam. It's compeltely different. ] [...] It is like asking whether it is better to have your MOD, S3M, IT, XM files as they are, or to convert them to MP3. Is this conversion needed? I don't think so. This is just one side of question. I've got slightly different opinion. But in ANY case we need a special portable player for SAM tunes for the format we choose. Special portable? If SimCoupe will be portable, I bet for a derivative work of it. Current SamPlay could be also considered, but it uses Z80 CPU emulator which can't handle samples, because it lacks any machine cycles counting. (But it is still good for 99.9% of music.) SamPlay uses only text mode user interface, so it could be possibly ported. But I haven't seen anybody who would be interested in it. I have mede versions for DOS (DJGPP) and Win32 (VC6). Aley
Re: Music database [was: Re: Memory Lane]
Aley Keprt wrote: [...] There's absolutely no reason for strictly following AZX specs. The only think you definitely do is that users won't be able to simply distinguish between Sam and ZXS music files and many of them will be confused because their player will say: This file's unknown format. Is this what you really want? Read the specs first. [...] Special portable? A portable player especially for this format. Aley
Re: Music database [was: Re: Memory Lane]
Aley Keprt wrote: Could we made also music database? I mean music from games, demos etc. I have ripped tens of music modules from several games and demos (for my player SamPlay distributed together with SAAemu), but I haven't released many of them because of copyright issues. Is the copyright problem because you're using the original music playing code? Would storing the generated register data instead be a way around that? Not sure... Similar project also exists alongside World Of Spectrum. The problem is that there's no official music module format for Sam (like .AY for Spectrum), and nobody seems to be interested in helping me ripping the music. I guess we'd need something pretty similar, just with different ports and an SAA emulation. What file format are you using for the SAM stuff at the moment? I've been thinking about adding support for Mac Buster's AZX format (http://www.void.jump.org/AZXformat.txt) to SimCoupé, so it could save out SAA data with time stamps. It's maybe slight overkill for storing regular tunes, but certainly a lot better than any regular audio format, and would be accurate enough to support sound sample playback too. Si
Re: Music database [was: Re: Memory Lane]
Storing generated register data is not better than the current state, because it is like recording a TV show on a VCR, and distributing video casettes with it. It is illegal. The current format used in SamPlay is: 1. Put the file at 32768. 2. Do Samadeus/Amadeus check. If passed use Samadeus/Amadeus play-scheme (poke 32769,n; call 32768) 3. Do E-Tracker module player check. If passed, use E-Tracker play-scheme (call 32772; call 32768) 4. Do E-Tracker module check. If passed, use internal E-Tracker player (taken from E-Tracker). 5. Do Craft check. If passed, use Craft play-scheme. 5. No success? So simply call 32768. You can find more information in SamPlay manual. The Sam music file format should have: 1. header with name, author, date, and other info 2. header with machine-code specific info - where to load it, how to initialize it, what to call 50/s 3. data taken from Sam program I don't know AZX. How you can use it? For AY data, or SAA data. If you would like to use it for SAA data, there's no reason of using it. AZX is not for Sam. This would make sense only if there will be a program compatible with both SAA and AY audio. But this is not our case. ZX emulation world is not a Sam world. Ad storing regular tunes: I think the best way is how SamPlay does it, i.e.binary data with Z80 code. It's the same as AY tunes you can find somewhere on World Of Spectrum. It is like asking whether it is better to have your MOD, S3M, IT, XM files as they are, or to convert them to MP3. Is this conversion needed? I don't think so. At least as long as we will be able to play these MOD, etc. files. - Original Message - From: Simon Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2001 11:58 AM Subject: Re: Music database [was: Re: Memory Lane] Aley Keprt wrote: Could we made also music database? I mean music from games, demos etc. I have ripped tens of music modules from several games and demos (for my player SamPlay distributed together with SAAemu), but I haven't released many of them because of copyright issues. Is the copyright problem because you're using the original music playing code? Would storing the generated register data instead be a way around that? Not sure... Similar project also exists alongside World Of Spectrum. The problem is that there's no official music module format for Sam (like .AY for Spectrum), and nobody seems to be interested in helping me ripping the music. I guess we'd need something pretty similar, just with different ports and an SAA emulation. What file format are you using for the SAM stuff at the moment? I've been thinking about adding support for Mac Buster's AZX format (http://www.void.jump.org/AZXformat.txt) to SimCoupé, so it could save out SAA data with time stamps. It's maybe slight overkill for storing regular tunes, but certainly a lot better than any regular audio format, and would be accurate enough to support sound sample playback too. Si
Re: Music database [was: Re: Memory Lane]
Aley Keprt wrote: [...] I don't know AZX. How you can use it? For AY data, or SAA data. If you would like to use it for SAA data, there's no reason of using it. AZX is not for Sam. Really ? Why ? You've just told you do not know what is AZX, didn't you ? Sure, AZX files are LARGE compared against AY files, but what can stop you from developing your own custom blocks format especially for Sam ? Just do not forget to follow rules from basic AZX format specifications. [...] It is like asking whether it is better to have your MOD, S3M, IT, XM files as they are, or to convert them to MP3. Is this conversion needed? I don't think so. This is just one side of question. I've got slightly different opinion. But in ANY case we need a special portable player for SAM tunes for the format we choose.
Re: Memory Lane
The original unautorised relase - Mr Pac - was much more fuin, even though
it was the exact same game. But just BECAUSE it was Pac Man on SAM it made
it all the better.
I sometimes wish some of the SAM authors (and sometimes people here on
this
list) would take more of a risk with their titles - why not release Mr
Pac?
Why change the name? Which company is realisticly going to sue a tiny game
manufacturer selling perhaps thirty or forty copies of a game when the
court
costs alone could outwiegh the costs that could be gained by contesting a
legal action?
Similarly, why not just copy World of Spectrum by publishing EVERYTHING
that
wa smade for teh SAm on a website for downloads, and taking it down when
asked by the authors. You may call me disrespectful to the original
authors,
but what's the point in holding hth ecopyright to software in a market
where
there is no money to be made anyway? Surely better to give the whole lot
away and keep this feeble SAM scene going?
I've been arguing this for years, and I get the usual private email abuse
for suggesting it - so go on, do your worst!
Johnna
I assume there are two reasons:
1. Some people don't like this piracy.
2. The others don't have internet server where to place the files or simply
don't have all the software
Guess what group do I belong to.
{ -Original Message-
{ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
{ Behalf Of Matthew J Craven
{ Sent: 27 February 2001 21:34
{ To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no
{ Subject: Re: Memory Lane
{
{
{ Hey Guys,
{
{ What about bulgulators?
{
{ --Matt.
{
Re: Memory Lane
on 28/2/01 10:30 pm, Johnna Teare at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Similarly, why not just copy World of Spectrum by publishing EVERYTHING that wa smade for teh SAm on a website for downloads, and taking it down when asked by the authors. You may call me disrespectful to the original authors, but what's the point in holding hth ecopyright to software in a market where there is no money to be made anyway? Surely better to give the whole lot away and keep this feeble SAM scene going? Didn't we go through this a few days ago? Maybe I'm not reporting enough info back or something to the list but basically this is what I'm trying to do at the mo: I've made up a big bastard list of all the authors, publishers etc I can get contact info about. I'm contacting them in whatever way possible (and I'm actually getting replies in most cases). I'm putting together a list of software that I have got permission to distribute, a list of software that I have got permission with certain conditions attached, and a list of software that I haven't got permission to distribute. Dave and I have already said that quite a few nice Persona titles are going to become available again (in a matter of days). You said what's the point in not dumping everything on the net when there's no money to be made, but it's not about money at all I don't think. Not everyone feels the same way, but there are a number of people who would be furious if we put their stuff up. There *will* be a library of software up very soon, I'm working on it best I can. You will see progress being made soon, trust me :) Gavin -- http://www.samcommunity.org - Paper mag for SAM owners and emulator users. Also contains Coupé info, news, mailing list help and much more to come. Last update: 27/2/01
Re: Memory Lane
It would be nice to make a voting system on the web, so Sam users can rate each program, especially games. And, PLEASE, don't use .TD0 teledisk files at all!!! I would like to see ALL stuff in simple DSK or SAD files. I personally vote for sad.gz, since it is the only packed format which can be currently used in both DOS and Win32 SimCoupe without repacking. In addition gz is shorter, but hopefully size doesn't matter so much. (I'm aware this wan't be accepted. But I really think it's a good idea.) Or should or could we made a public voting what format to use? I'm sure there are several people who might prefer some file-based packing methods which are suitable for original Sams. But these ones are unusable in emulators (better said not so easily). And finally, SDF seems to be nice, but official format haven't been introduced yet. And - more sadly - the .SDF creator is not available. -- Oh, that was not finally. I have yet another thread. Could we made also music database? I mean music from games, demos etc. I have ripped tens of music modules from several games and demos (for my player SamPlay distributed together with SAAemu), but I haven't released many of them because of copyright issues. Similar project also exists alongside World Of Spectrum. The problem is that there's no official music module format for Sam (like .AY for Spectrum), and nobody seems to be interested in helping me ripping the music. -- Bc.Aley [eili] Keprt - games multimedia programmer ICQ: 82357182 (evenings) *** phone: +420-68-5387035 (weekends) private e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley office: Illusion Softworks, Brno, CZ - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- - Original Message - From: Gavin Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2001 12:34 AM Subject: Re: Memory Lane on 28/2/01 10:30 pm, Johnna Teare at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Similarly, why not just copy World of Spectrum by publishing EVERYTHING that wa smade for teh SAm on a website for downloads, and taking it down when asked by the authors. You may call me disrespectful to the original authors, but what's the point in holding hth ecopyright to software in a market where there is no money to be made anyway? Surely better to give the whole lot away and keep this feeble SAM scene going? Didn't we go through this a few days ago? Maybe I'm not reporting enough info back or something to the list but basically this is what I'm trying to do at the mo: I've made up a big bastard list of all the authors, publishers etc I can get contact info about. I'm contacting them in whatever way possible (and I'm actually getting replies in most cases). I'm putting together a list of software that I have got permission to distribute, a list of software that I have got permission with certain conditions attached, and a list of software that I haven't got permission to distribute. Dave and I have already said that quite a few nice Persona titles are going to become available again (in a matter of days). You said what's the point in not dumping everything on the net when there's no money to be made, but it's not about money at all I don't think. Not everyone feels the same way, but there are a number of people who would be furious if we put their stuff up. There *will* be a library of software up very soon, I'm working on it best I can. You will see progress being made soon, trust me :) Gavin -- http://www.samcommunity.org - Paper mag for SAM owners and emulator users. Also contains Coupé info, news, mailing list help and much more to come. Last update: 27/2/01
Re: Memory Lane
on 1/3/01 12:13 am, Aley Keprt at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It would be nice to make a voting system on the web, so Sam users can rate each program, especially games. Well I was thinking tonight that the SC site isn't really much of a community which is what it's supposed to be. I've been wondering about various ways to improve it, but I don't want to do message boards or that kind of thing as it might take some traffic off this list. However, would a Slashdot style of page interest anyone? Where people can comment on news and also possibly post their own bits and pieces? The voting system is another thing I'd like to do... And, PLEASE, don't use .TD0 teledisk files at all!!! No, I definitely won't, they're indeed the spawn of satan. I would like to see ALL stuff in simple DSK or SAD files. I personally vote for sad.gz, since it is the only packed format which can be currently used in both DOS and Win32 SimCoupe without repacking. Well, I'll be entirely honest and admit that I know very little about SAD files. DSK files are easy, lots of wee utilities available no matter what computer you're running etc. Can you list a few of the main benefits of SAD? My plan was to make everything as .dsk file, zipped up. The zip file may contain a small text document containing author contact info etc, and any other information. But yeah, if the site is going to be a community, then we should all vote on this. I'll put up some kind of a voting form on the website at the weekend and give people (say) a week to vote. Oh, that was not finally. I have yet another thread. Could we made also music database? I mean music from games, demos etc. I have ripped tens of music modules from several games and demos (for my player SamPlay distributed together with SAAemu), but I haven't released many of them because of copyright issues. Similar project also exists alongside World Of Spectrum. The problem is that there's no official music module format for Sam (like .AY for Spectrum), and nobody seems to be interested in helping me ripping the music. If anyone wants to do such a database, I'd like to host as part of SCFL. It doesn't interest me personally but I guess it would be a nice thing to have. Gavin -- http://www.samcommunity.org - Paper mag for SAM owners and emulator users. Also contains Coupé info, news, mailing list help and much more to come. Last update: 27/2/01
RE: Memory Lane
hey phill!, hows it going up north :¬) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 February 2001 20:55 To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Subject: Re: Memory Lane In case nobody has yet confirmed: DATON games were indeed written by Dave Tonks of Sam Supplement games. Games included SLIDER, PATIENCE, STRIP POKER (I think!) and dozens of others. Probably collectors items now. He often sold the games at Gloucester SAM fairs and would often discuss them and offer help and advice about programming and hardware. A very friendly bloke, as was his wife Jean, who was often at the fairs. I'm not sure what Dave's up to now, but he was one of the friendliest and most helpful SAM people I ever met. (He wired-up a SCART cable for my monitor, free of charge.) Worst SAM game for me: DEFENDERS OF THE EARTH - Too hard to play unless you cheat. Phil Glover.
Re: Memory Lane
Well I was thinking tonight that the SC site isn't really much of a community which is what it's supposed to be. I've been wondering about various ways to improve it, but I don't want to do message boards or that kind of thing as it might take some traffic off this list. However, would a Slashdot style of page interest anyone? Where people Definitely. That's my vote for Slashdot.
RE: Memory Lane
i remember playing Defenders of the Earth on the Speccy for an entire 2
hours before stating it was crap and a waste of money. Hmmthose were
they days.
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Collier [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:10 PM
To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no
Subject: Re: Memory Lane
At 3:54 pm -0500 28/2/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Worst SAM game for me: DEFENDERS OF THE EARTH - Too hard to play unless
you
cheat.
Really? Maybe I was just good at it. Funny because I never completed
Sphera, and everybody always said they thought it was a really easy game.
Andrew
(BTW. You appear to be posting in HTML.)
--
---Andrew Collier
http://mnemotech.ucam.org/ ---
--
r2+ T4* cSEL dMS hEn/CBBL A4 S+*++ C$++L/mP W- a-- Vh+seT+ (Cantab)
1.1.4
RE: Memory Lane
I remember playing Defenders of the Earth and thinking wow! these graphics
are amazing, and the sound :-). But then after trying to get passed the
same point for about 3 hours i turned it off and put it back. But prince of
persia was great :-0
Adrian
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 01 March 2001 10:51
To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no
Subject: RE: Memory Lane
i remember playing Defenders of the Earth on the Speccy for an entire 2
hours before stating it was crap and a waste of money. Hmmthose were
they days.
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Collier [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 9:10 PM
To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no
Subject: Re: Memory Lane
At 3:54 pm -0500 28/2/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Worst SAM game for me: DEFENDERS OF THE EARTH - Too hard to play unless
you
cheat.
Really? Maybe I was just good at it. Funny because I never completed
Sphera, and everybody always said they thought it was a really easy game.
Andrew
(BTW. You appear to be posting in HTML.)
--
---Andrew Collier
http://mnemotech.ucam.org/ ---
--
r2+ T4* cSEL dMS hEn/CBBL A4 S+*++ C$++L/mP W- a-- Vh+seT+ (Cantab)
1.1.4
Re: Memory Lane
Aley Keprt wrote: [...] And, PLEASE, don't use .TD0 teledisk files at all!!! Mail me off the list if you want to have sources of td0 to trd disk image converter. --
Re: Memory Lane
As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) Snake Mania was of course sold Legally by myself under the Phoenix lable... for only a fiver. Exactly what price? (compared to Revelation) Revelation NEVER sold it I negotiated with Maciej after Samco went down ... 5.50 - or 10 quid as the double pack dyadic (crap name - never mind!) with craft... Craft is also good. But why do I have it at home, when Revelation never sold it? Copyright 1992 Revelation. by E.S.I./Kassoft I wonder how this is possible. I'm affraid it is some beta version.???
Re: Memory Lane
- Original Message - From: Aley Keprt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 12:22 AM Subject: Re: Memory Lane As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) Snake Mania was of course sold Legally by myself under the Phoenix lable... for only a fiver. Exactly what price? (compared to Revelation) Revelation NEVER sold it I negotiated with Maciej after Samco went down ... 5.50 - or 10 quid as the double pack dyadic (crap name - never mind!) with craft... Craft is also good. But why do I have it at home, when Revelation never sold it? Copyright 1992 Revelation. by E.S.I./Kassoft I wonder how this is possible. I'm affraid it is some beta version.??? Easy. You have a pirate copy (don't worry! I won't sue!) of the version that Maciej sent to Revelation (the real one - not bobs revelation) which i was - this was never contracted to SAMCo. I dealt with Kassoft directly on it after SAMCo's demise. Oh, and contrary to Bob's accusation of my stealing information from SAMCo's filing cabinets - I got his contact details via the man who ran SAM Paper diskzine.
Re: Memory Lane
At 10:29 pm +0100 27/2/01, Aley Keprt wrote:
btw, I don't know whether Sam Mines is commercial one, but it is a quite
stupid too. As I remember it is a remake of one very old game (1983?) for ZX
Spectrum. Maybe made by the same author on Sam?
Are you talking about SamMines, the Mine-sweeper game I wrote in machine
code and was on Fred 57?
Andrew
--
---Andrew Collier
http://mnemotech.ucam.org/ ---
--
r2+ T4* cSEL dMS hEn/CBBL A4 S+*++ C$++L/mP W- a-- Vh+seT+ (Cantab) 1.1.4
Re: Memory Lane
At 10:29 pm +0100 27/2/01, Aley Keprt wrote: btw, I don't know whether Sam Mines is commercial one, but it is a quite stupid too. As I remember it is a remake of one very old game (1983?) for ZX Spectrum. Maybe made by the same author on Sam? Are you talking about SamMines, the Mine-sweeper game I wrote in machine code and was on Fred 57? No, this one is much older (1989 or 1990). And - as I said - it is written in Basic.
Re: Memory Lane
As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) Snake Mania was of course sold Legally by myself under the Phoenix lable... for only a fiver. Exactly what price? (compared to Revelation) Revelation NEVER sold it I negotiated with Maciej after Samco went down ... 5.50 - or 10 quid as the double pack dyadic (crap name - never mind!) with craft... Craft is also good. But why do I have it at home, when Revelation never sold it? Copyright 1992 Revelation. by E.S.I./Kassoft I wonder how this is possible. I'm affraid it is some beta version.??? Easy. You have a pirate copy (don't worry! I won't sue!) of the version that Maciej sent to Revelation (the real one - not bobs revelation) which i was - this was never contracted to SAMCo. I dealt with Kassoft directly on it after SAMCo's demise. Oh, and contrary to Bob's accusation of my stealing information from SAMCo's filing cabinets - I got his contact details via the man who ran SAM Paper diskzine. Please again. I still don't understand it. I wrote Snake Mania by E.S.I. Then you wrote it was never sold by Revelation, but under label Phoenix. Then I wrote I have copyright Revelation statement there. And you wrote Maciej sent to Revelation which I was. So you are Revelation, but you sold the game as Phoenix? Huh? And, I think my Revelation labeled copy is from Poland (where the author Kassoft/E.S.I. live). Aley
Re: Memory Lane
At 7:35 pm +0100 28/2/01, Aley Keprt wrote:
At 10:29 pm +0100 27/2/01, Aley Keprt wrote:
btw, I don't know whether Sam Mines is commercial one, but it is a quite
stupid too. As I remember it is a remake of one very old game (1983?) for
ZX
Spectrum. Maybe made by the same author on Sam?
Are you talking about SamMines, the Mine-sweeper game I wrote in machine
code and was on Fred 57?
No, this one is much older (1989 or 1990).
And - as I said - it is written in Basic.
Well you didn't say it actually, and you might have *thought* something was
written in BASIC even if it actually wasn't...
Andrew
--
---Andrew Collier
http://mnemotech.ucam.org/ ---
--
r2+ T4* cSEL dMS hEn/CBBL A4 S+*++ C$++L/mP W- a-- Vh+seT+ (Cantab) 1.1.4
Re: Memory Lane
At 7:35 pm +0100 28/2/01, Aley Keprt wrote:
At 10:29 pm +0100 27/2/01, Aley Keprt wrote:
btw, I don't know whether Sam Mines is commercial one, but it is a
quite
stupid too. As I remember it is a remake of one very old game (1983?)
for
ZX
Spectrum. Maybe made by the same author on Sam?
Are you talking about SamMines, the Mine-sweeper game I wrote in
machine
code and was on Fred 57?
No, this one is much older (1989 or 1990).
And - as I said - it is written in Basic.
Well you didn't say it actually, and you might have *thought* something
was
written in BASIC even if it actually wasn't...
Please don't be mistaken. I actually wrote that I'm talking about stupid
games written in Basic or so.
And, you can be sure I definitely know what programs are written in Basic. I
was 13 or 14 when I played with Sam, and I as a good child, I investigated
all suspect programs I got ;-)
;-)
--
Bc.Aley [eili] Keprt - games multimedia programmer
ICQ: 82357182 (evenings) *** phone: +420-68-5387035 (weekends)
private e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley
office: Illusion Softworks, Brno, CZ - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
- Original Message -
From: Andrew Collier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no
Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2001 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: Memory Lane
Andrew
--
---Andrew Collier
http://mnemotech.ucam.org/ ---
--
r2+ T4* cSEL dMS hEn/CBBL A4 S+*++ C$++L/mP W- a-- Vh+seT+ (Cantab)
1.1.4
Re: Memory Lane
In case nobody has yet confirmed: DATON games were indeed written by Dave Tonks of Sam Supplement games. Games included SLIDER, PATIENCE, STRIP POKER (I think!) and dozens of others. Probably collectors items now. He often sold the games at Gloucester SAM fairs and would often discuss them and offer help and advice about programming and hardware. A very friendly bloke, as was his wife Jean, who was often at the fairs. I'm not sure what Dave's up to now, but he was one of the friendliest and most helpful SAM people I ever met. (He wired-up a SCART cable for my monitor, free of charge.) Worst SAM game for me: DEFENDERS OF THE EARTH - Too hard to play unless you cheat. Phil Glover.
Re: Memory Lane
At 3:54 pm -0500 28/2/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Worst SAM game for me: DEFENDERS OF THE EARTH - Too hard to play unless you
cheat.
Really? Maybe I was just good at it. Funny because I never completed
Sphera, and everybody always said they thought it was a really easy game.
Andrew
(BTW. You appear to be posting in HTML.)
--
---Andrew Collier
http://mnemotech.ucam.org/ ---
--
r2+ T4* cSEL dMS hEn/CBBL A4 S+*++ C$++L/mP W- a-- Vh+seT+ (Cantab) 1.1.4
Re: Memory Lane
At 3:54 pm -0500 28/2/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Worst SAM game for me: DEFENDERS OF THE EARTH - Too hard to play unless you cheat. Really? Maybe I was just good at it. Funny because I never completed Sphera, and everybody always said they thought it was a really easy game. Andrew Yes indeed. Sphera is very easy, Defenders is tough. (for me)
RE: Memory Lane
Aley said...
{ Craft is also good.
{ But why do I have it at home, when Revelation never sold it?
{ Copyright 1992 Revelation. by E.S.I./Kassoft I wonder how this is
{ possible. I'm affraid it is some beta version.???
{
{
{ Easy.
{
{ You have a pirate copy (don't worry! I won't sue!) of the version that
{ Maciej sent to Revelation (the real one - not bobs revelation) which i
{ was - this was never contracted to SAMCo.
{
Correct me if I'm wrong but my copy also read 'copyright Revelation
software' but was not a pirate version - in fact i think it might have been
sent to me as a review copy - so perhaps this is how you got yours Aley.
The SAM scene was rife with pirating anyway, so any attempt to sue would not
stand a chance ! It is only Bob who has ever pretended to make a living out
of it, and when it came to sellgin pirate copies of softwae he was the
biggest culprit of them all.
Not that piratig software is necessarilt the right thing to do. But just
that asking 15 quid for a game that you could get in the Amiga PD library
for a quid always seemed like unrealistic - if the games were a bit cheaper
maybe those who did copy games would have been more incliined to buy them.
{ I dealt with Kassoft directly on it after SAMCo's demise.
{
{ Oh, and contrary to Bob's accusation of my stealing information from
{ SAMCo's filing cabinets - I got his contact details via the man
{ who ran SAM
{ Paper diskzine.
{
Bob just got a strop on cos he couldnt own the whole SAM world. So what if
you did get an address from SAMCo (which I dont belive you did, i must
add) - surely he's just pissed off because he didn't have the common sense
to do it anyway, and if he had made the programmers a better offer then they
would have signed to his Rvelation label. The man was a cry baby who sulked
whenever he never got his own way and for all the good he did for SAM (and
he did do some) he did as much damage with his tantrums and name calling.
If I'm a little verbose tonight it's because that good old English bloke
Sven has just led our team to a 3-0 win. Come on the boys!
Johnna
RE: Memory Lane
The original unautorised relase - Mr Pac - was much more fuin, even though
it was the exact same game. But just BECAUSE it was Pac Man on SAM it made
it all the better.
I sometimes wish some of the SAM authors (and sometimes people here on this
list) would take more of a risk with their titles - why not release Mr Pac?
Why change the name? Which company is realisticly going to sue a tiny game
manufacturer selling perhaps thirty or forty copies of a game when the court
costs alone could outwiegh the costs that could be gained by contesting a
legal action?
Similarly, why not just copy World of Spectrum by publishing EVERYTHING that
wa smade for teh SAm on a website for downloads, and taking it down when
asked by the authors. You may call me disrespectful to the original authors,
but what's the point in holding hth ecopyright to software in a market where
there is no money to be made anyway? Surely better to give the whole lot
away and keep this feeble SAM scene going?
I've been arguing this for years, and I get the usual private email abuse
for suggesting it - so go on, do your worst!
Johnna
{ -Original Message-
{ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
{ Behalf Of Matthew J Craven
{ Sent: 27 February 2001 21:34
{ To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no
{ Subject: Re: Memory Lane
{
{
{ Hey Guys,
{
{ What about bulgulators?
{
{ --Matt.
{
Re: Memory Lane
on 27/2/01 1:56 pm, Johnna Teare at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Love the new WinCoupe - made me take a trip down memory lane today and play some old SAM games. Sphera is still as terrible as it always was. Bit like a demo with a small game bolted on. Which got me thinking - what was the WORST commercial SAM game? I played Vegetable Vacation loads of times because it looked so damned good, but i dont ever remember enjoying it! Any opinions? Probably Stra...(only joking Colin). No, the one I was most disappointed in was Legend of Eshan. It sounded *so* cool and I was *so* looking forward to it and I read mainly great reviews of it (apart from one of the SAM2SAM pair) that I was kind of disappointed when I got it. Always wanted to enjoy it, never quite was able to but it was probably just me. Every now and then I dig it out and try my best to enjoy it but no can do :) Still haven't been able to play Colony for more than about 30 seconds without the game quitting and I'm sure someone on this list promised me a playing guide...;) Can't say I've ever really regretted buying any SAM games though. Possibly X-Sights 3 and Kaboom! and anything else that never arrived though :) Gavin -- http://www.samcommunity.org - Paper mag for SAM owners and emulator users. Also contains Coupé info, news, mailing list help and much more to come. Last update: 23/1/01
Re: Memory Lane
Love the new WinCoupe - made me take a trip down memory lane today and play some old SAM games. Sphera is still as terrible as it always was. Bit like a demo with a small game bolted on. ;-) Okay, it's your opinion. In my opinion Sphera, although it's not too funny, is still better than 90% of games ever made on Sam. My shit-favourites include Future Ball, Defenders, Sam Strikes Out, and all those hundreds of really stupid games written in Basic. (Of course there are also reasonable games written in Basic, I'm not insulting Basic.) As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) I probably wrote this already, but I must note that really big bunch of :games: made in UK were really terrible. Not in graphics or sound, but in absolutely missing playability. Which got me thinking - what was the WORST commercial SAM game? I played Vegetable Vacation loads of times because it looked so damned good, but i dont ever remember enjoying it! Any opinions? Alright. Vegetable Vacation is my favourite shit too. ;-) You can also count all action games on Sam - none of them is enjoyable of funny. Maybe Prince Of Persia has superb graphics and music, but isn't it quite boring? Similarly Escape From The Planet is quite funny, but who has ever seen the original (japan?) video game, he can't accept this buggy and light version with weird controls and no artifical intelligence of those strange-looking robots. Again: NO AI, no fun. In this scope Prince is much better, since is almost the same as the original game on PC, incl. AI. Aley (I expect this is another discussion which will bring tens of mails to sam-users.)
Re: Memory Lane
Interestingly, most good looking games wich brought us no playability, fun, and nothing to enjoy, got over 90% in most or all computer magazines in the UK. I actually don't know whether this is applicable only to ZX Spectrum/Sam magazines or is a national tradition in the UK. In my country worse games get 70%, not 90%. It's better but I am mathematician and I still wonder why good looking but terrible games can't get more than 20% or 10%. -- Bc.Aley [eili] Keprt - games multimedia programmer ICQ: 82357182 (evenings) *** phone: +420-68-5387035 (weekends) private e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] *** http://get.to/aley office: Illusion Softworks, Brno, CZ - [EMAIL PROTECTED] --
Re: Memory Lane
on 27/2/01 6:37 pm, Aley Keprt at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My shit-favourites include Future Ball, Defenders, Sam Strikes Out, and all those hundreds of really stupid games written in Basic. (Of course there are also reasonable games written in Basic, I'm not insulting Basic.) The question was about commerical games - I don't think there were hundreds of stupid BASIC games released commerically. As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) Possibly it's number 1 (in your opinion) in your country *because* it was made outside the UK? I probably wrote this already, but I must note that really big bunch of :games: made in UK were really terrible. Not in graphics or sound, but in absolutely missing playability. I'm not sure which ones you are referring to but then of course there is likely to be a large amount of relatively poor stuff from the UK, because the SAM was made in the UK (and therefore most of its users were/are here (although it's great to see people from other places taking more of an interest now)) - so most games were made here - obviously. Then there's the fact that the SAM never really got off to the start it should have - if it had, perhaps we would have seen quality games such as Lemmings, Defender, Stratosphere etc a lot earlier in the SAM's life. As it was, it was mainly left up to guys typing away on the SAM in their bedrooms. I think the SAM has done very nicely in terms of software - far from perfect, but all considering... You can also count all action games on Sam - none of them is enjoyable of funny. Maybe Prince Of Persia has superb graphics and music, but isn't it quite boring? No, it's a *great* game! Bloody hell! (Disregarding the bugs though :) (I expect this is another discussion which will bring tens of mails to sam-users.) A little voice in my head keeps telling me you're just trying to start flame wars but I will of course ignore it ;) Gavin
Re: Memory Lane
on 27/2/01 6:43 pm, Aley Keprt at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Interestingly, most good looking games wich brought us no playability, fun, and nothing to enjoy, got over 90% in most or all computer magazines in the UK. I actually don't know whether this is applicable only to ZX Spectrum/Sam magazines or is a national tradition in the UK. No, you're right, a lot of mags do seem to have dodgy marking systems. YS was quite fair if I remember rightly, and if you read Amiga Power (a few of whom came from YS) in its final year or so you'll know they were very harsh on games, not giving many over 70%. In my country worse games get 70%, not 90%. It's better but I am mathematician and I still wonder why good looking but terrible games can't get more than 20% or 10%. I think an average game should get 50% - if it's below average it should get less than 50% accordingly. Gavin (who misses YS very much *sniff*) -- http://www.samcommunity.org - Paper mag for SAM owners and emulator users. Also contains Coupé info, news, mailing list help and much more to come. Last update: 23/1/01
RE: Memory Lane
{No, the one I was most
{ disappointed in
{ was Legend of Eshan. It sounded *so* cool and I was *so* looking
{ forward to
{ it and I read mainly great reviews of it (apart from one of the SAM2SAM
{ pair)
Erm..yeah. That would have been me! Never got to grips with it, and gave up
trying after a while. Still, I was like that with Lords of Midnight too, so
maybe it's just me ?!
{
{ Gavin
Johnna
Re: Memory Lane
My shit-favourites include Future Ball, Defenders, Sam Strikes Out, and all those hundreds of really stupid games written in Basic. (Of course there are also reasonable games written in Basic, I'm not insulting Basic.) The question was about commerical games - I don't think there were hundreds of stupid BASIC games released commerically. Didn't Dave Tonks (of Sam Supplement fame) release Mind Games thru Revelations (or SamCo, whatever) - compilations of loads of 'stupid games written in Basic' as Aley might say. I'm pretty sure there was a Mind Games I and a Mind Games II ... for all I know it went right up to Mind Games XXI . Now, having never actually played any of the Mind Games games, I can't possibly judge their quality. However in the early days I thought the Sam Basic 'games' and things on Sam Supplement were the mutts nuts! But hardly commercial material D
Re: Memory Lane
Love the new WinCoupe - made me take a trip down memory lane today and play
some old SAM games.
Sphera is still as terrible as it always was. Bit like a demo with a small
game bolted on.
Which got me thinking - what was the WORST commercial SAM game?
Interesting. I always thought Sphera was quite good actually. Parallax I
thought was very poor, even more so considering how much hype it got. Just
IMHO of course.
Andrew
--
---Andrew Collier
http://mnemotech.ucam.org/ ---
--
r2+ T4* cSEL dMS hEn/CBBL A4 S+*++ C$++L/mP W- a-- Vh+seT+ (Cantab) 1.1.4
Re: Memory Lane
Nobody seems to have voted for COLONY (Persona release), written by D.Koselo, which could just as easily mean that I simply didn't understand it. Whatever this strategy game (written in BASIC) was about, I always died for some unexplained reason in about 2 minutes! Was I doing something wrong? -howard
Re: Memory Lane
Today, Howard Price did write about Re: Memory Lane: Nobody seems to have voted for COLONY (Persona release), written by I bought Colony from Fred, just before it become FredSoft, or something... D.Koselo, which could just as easily mean that I simply didn't understand it. Whatever this strategy game (written in BASIC) was about, I always died for some unexplained reason in about 2 minutes! Was I doing something wrong? Better than me. I never followed enough to bother trying to play it :-(
Re: Memory Lane
on 27/2/01 7:59 pm, Howard Price at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nobody seems to have voted for COLONY (Persona release), written by D.Koselo, which could just as easily mean that I simply didn't understand it. Whatever this strategy game (written in BASIC) was about, I always died for some unexplained reason in about 2 minutes! Was I doing something wrong? -howard I mentioned it! I said I couldn't survive after 30 seconds or something like that :) It can be done as a certain person was going to write me a playing guide on how they did it *hint hint* -- http://www.samcommunity.org - Paper mag for SAM owners and emulator users. Also contains Coupé info, news, mailing list help and much more to come. Last update: 27/2/01
Re: Memory Lane
on 27/2/01 6:37 pm, Aley Keprt at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My shit-favourites include Future Ball, Defenders, Sam Strikes Out, and all those hundreds of really stupid games written in Basic. (Of course there are also reasonable games written in Basic, I'm not insulting Basic.) The question was about commerical games - I don't think there were hundreds of stupid BASIC games released commerically. You're right, but please don't be so pedantic. You can be never sure what exactly was commercially publiched. Many authors sold their simple basic programs, although they probably didn't sell many copies. I - for example - sold 3 copies of my two Sam games. Horribly terrible... As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) Possibly it's number 1 (in your opinion) in your country *because* it was made outside the UK? Absolutely not! I don't think this way. I just wrote this, because I wonder if people in the UK has good knowledge of foreign games (or other programs, music, etc.). Maybe I'm too pesimistic, but I assume that you in UK don't look much to foreign games for ZX Spectrum/Sam. At least when I looked to Crash/YS mags, I've seen many not extremely good UK games rated 90%, but usually only one foreign game in each issue. You can also count all action games on Sam - none of them is enjoyable of funny. Maybe Prince Of Persia has superb graphics and music, but isn't it quite boring? No, it's a *great* game! Bloody hell! (Disregarding the bugs though :) As a programmer I like it, it's a great work. As a player it's really too boring for me. I bet many or maybe most people like PoP. I don't like the idea. If PoP's author spent time on other games, e.g. Turrican, it could be much better. A little voice in my head keeps telling me you're just trying to start flame wars but I will of course ignore it ;) Gavin What flame wars? Don't call for them.
Re: Memory Lane
Please contact me re this - for re-release under the Sam Community librabry - along with other persona titles - Original Message - From: Howard Price [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 7:59 PM Subject: Re: Memory Lane Nobody seems to have voted for COLONY (Persona release), written by D.Koselo, which could just as easily mean that I simply didn't understand it. Whatever this strategy game (written in BASIC) was about, I always died for some unexplained reason in about 2 minutes! Was I doing something wrong? -howard
Re: Memory Lane
- Original Message - From: Aley Keprt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 6:37 PM Subject: Re: Memory Lane As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) Snake Mania was of course sold Legally by myself under the Phoenix lable... for only a fiver.
Re: Memory Lane
My shit-favourites include Future Ball, Defenders, Sam Strikes Out, and all those hundreds of really stupid games written in Basic. (Of course there are also reasonable games written in Basic, I'm not insulting Basic.) The question was about commerical games - I don't think there were hundreds of stupid BASIC games released commerically. Didn't Dave Tonks (of Sam Supplement fame) release Mind Games thru Revelations (or SamCo, whatever) - compilations of loads of 'stupid games written in Basic' as Aley might say. I'm pretty sure there was a Mind Games I and a Mind Games II ... for all I know it went right up to Mind Games XXI. To be honest I like these. I have MG1 and MG2 and also more similarly simple games written by DATON. I don't know who is it, but I know his work well. Although I think most of the games are real shits (sorry), I think some of them are great. You know you must realize 100 ideas to make one great game. My favourite Daton's game is Explode. It's a game based on a well known idea, but in the time it was new (presented on Sam Supplement issue 1 or 2) I didn't know any other implementation of this game. I played the game with several my friends many days, weeks, months.(?) Also Love Hearts wasn't a bad game, but it's still a Basic one. And my beloved Basic game is Gemstones. (Can't remember the author, maybe Daton too?) Another logic game, but this one has really excellent idea. So, as you know I didn't wrote and don't think ALL Basic games are bad, but 95% of them are. Now, having never actually played any of the Mind Games games, I can't possibly judge their quality. However in the early days I thought the Sam Basic 'games' and things on Sam Supplement were the mutts nuts! But hardly commercial material Mind Games 1 2, released by Enigma, written by Daton in Basic. Both compilations consist of 4 games (as I can remember). btw, I don't know whether Sam Mines is commercial one, but it is a quite stupid too. As I remember it is a remake of one very old game (1983?) for ZX Spectrum. Maybe made by the same author on Sam? Aley
Re: Memory Lane
Hey Guys, What about bulgulators? --Matt.
Re: Memory Lane
As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) Snake Mania was of course sold Legally by myself under the Phoenix lable... for only a fiver. Exactly what price? (compared to Revelation)
Re: Memory Lane
Aley Keprt wrote: I bet many or maybe most people like PoP. I don't like the idea. I guess most people like PoP not for its idea, but for very smooth and detailed animation. This is the second game with such type of animation ever made, first one was Karateka if I am not wrong. Possibly. I liked PoP too in the past, but then I realized it's nice, but boring. You still run from nowhere to nowhere. And what else? I'd expect something else from a game. It's similar to Sphera which is possibly the second-nicest game for Sam. You fly up and up, very occasionally you shot some intruders, then you fly and fly and fly. A bit boring shooting game.
Re: Memory Lane
- Original Message - From: Aley Keprt [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sam-users@nvg.ntnu.no Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 9:51 PM Subject: Re: Memory Lane As I've seen on Sam parties in my country and around me, the no.1 here is Snake Mania (by E.S.I.). Similarly to no.1 smash-hit Tetris 2 (by Fuxoft) on ZX Spectrum. (What's interesting: Both these games were made outside UK.) Snake Mania was of course sold Legally by myself under the Phoenix lable... for only a fiver. Exactly what price? (compared to Revelation) Revelation NEVER sold it I negotiated with Maciej after Samco went down ... 5.50 - or 10 quid as the double pack dyadic (crap name - never mind!) with craft...
