CSJust dropping in briefly... Lyme CS
Mike friends, I've been quiet on the list for months now but still want to subscribe. I am a packrat and have saved nearly every digest since I've subscribed in 1996. Life has taken many new turns (for the better!) I am very busy and seldom get to email friends like Marsha Donna (Hi! Remember me?)... Lyme friends, would you care to stop by news:sci.med.diseases.lyme and keep an eye on things there? I'll be gone most of the next week starting tonight and there are hot colloidal silver issues right now; maybe over with by tomorrow... Who knows? I monitor that site pretty regularly and have to leave in the middle of a CS discussion I'm an anchor to. Newcomers, feel free to visit my non-commercial web page to see how CS has helped me with Lyme disease. I regret, I will be away and can not answer any questions until I get back, so perhaps you should send them direct. I can not keep up with the digest. silverwo...@oikourgos.com or bernt...@altavista.net God bless, Nancy -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSOT - Missing Digest V99 #646
I have noticed that I am not receiving all of my silver-digests. I'm starting to wonder if it could be size-related. Was V99 #646 particularly big? I was just wondering if this happens to anyone else. (I've asked a friend to send me a copy of the missing edition). Nancy
Re: CSRe: Bronchitis
What is NAC? Nancy -Original Message- From: Marshall Dudley mdud...@execonn.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 2:29 PM Subject: Re: CSPlantar's Warts, No More... With bronchitis I highly suggest taking NAC with the CS. Marshall chrlyg...@aol.com wrote: I was just getting ready to ask about CS. I am a diabetic, have degenerative spinal disease and because of my reoccurring bronchitis, I'm on antibiotics almost constantly. Not surprisingly, they no longer work. Last week my Doctor told me to consider using CS. Well that really surprised me. I used to skip all the post about CS, now I need the info. I would like to make my own and I know there was info on this before. Is there a way to know how many PPM there is when you finished making it. The Doctor recommended 20 - 40 PPM and most of the generators seem to make about 5 PPM. Can this be made with 1 oz silver bars? I need help and instructions please. Linda in KY -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSPlantar's Warts, No More...
What a great idea, documenting it on video! Thanks for sharing your idea. Please give us a progress report, too! Nancy (What a clever fish at the end of your sentence, sister!) -Original Message- From: ldybou...@aol.com ldybou...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, October 07, 1999 12:24 PM Subject: Re: CSPlantar's Warts, No More... nancy this is great news for me! My husband and daughter both have warts, we are new to SC and just to see what it will do, we measured the warts and video taped them and I have them soaking in 75ppm 2-3 times daily. We started this Sun. Oct. 3. As it stands the dark color the warts had are gone and they seem to have gotten smaller. My point of taking notes and video is my sister works for research doctors at Mayo.. so if this works I'm sending my findings to her to pass on the them, maybe then my family will stop calling me the root doctor LOL. Chris -- -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSBlood Brain Barrier, was West Nile Virus
The blood brain barrier is real; blood vessels to the brain are very small, and most antibiotics are larger than a blood cell. You can't pass a golf ball through a garden hose; similarly you can't fit most antibiotics through capillaries in the brain. However, colloidal silver is far smaller than a blood cell, thus it can pass the blood brain barrier. Thank God! Nancy -Original Message- From: Kass ka...@harborside.com To: Sam Earle sear...@ix.netcom.com; Marshall Dudley silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, October 06, 1999 5:28 PM Subject: Re: CSRe[2]: CSWest Nile Virus Oral antibiotics will not cross into the brain to rid someone of Lyme disease due to this barrier. I know this to be a fact, after 10 months of 800mg a day, of amoxicillen (spelling?). Only after going on IV antibiotics, was I cleared of the flashing lights and stabbing head aches. Keep smiling, Kass - Original Message - From: Sam Earle sear...@ix.netcom.com To: Marshall Dudley silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, October 04, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: CSRe[2]: CSWest Nile Virus I don't know where anyone got the notion of a blood-brain barrier. The blood circulates through the brain the same as it does through the rest of the body, up the carotid artery and back through the jugular vein. There is a separation between the spinal fluid and the blood, but it is semipermeable and is easily penetrated by viruses, bacteria, vitamins, minerals, drugs, etc. There is no barrier. The brain and the body are one. Sam Earle You're entitled to my opinion. mailto:sear...@ix.netcom.com Monday, October 04, 1999, 4:15:41 PM, you wrote: Although I have no information that it would, I would be very surprised if it was not near 100% effective in preventing it. Curing it may be a different matter though, because of the blood brain barrier, which I don't think silver will typically breach, but others here think it can. Marshall patty wolfe wrote: Do you think CS could be of benefit against the West Nile Virus? -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSPlantar's Warts, No More...
My friend Bob visited us a few weeks ago and he was telling how colloidal minerals (which have silver in them) enabled him to give up napping. (He has had Crohn's disease for several years). His young daughter got plantar's warts at camp this summer. I suggested if it were me, I'd put colloidal silver on the warts, though I've not had any experience with this. Our families were sailing together so I couldn't give him some of mine at the time; didn't have any with me. He just called last night and said that he used the colloidal minerals he had on her feet. He put soaked gauze on the warts each night for 3 weeks. After the second night, the 2 warts turned black. After 3 weeks total, the warts fell off! Nancy
Re: CSALS or Lou Geiregs disease?
If it were me, I'd try it. Many people have been misdiagnosed with ALS, MS, fibromyalgia, you name it, and really had Lyme disease. Regardless the diagnosis or it's accuracy, I believe that in time we will find that many diseases of unknown cause will be connected to treatable bacterial infection. Please keep us posted! Nancy -Original Message- From: sjlan...@aol.com sjlan...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 8:24 AM Subject: CSALS or Lou Geiregs disease? Anyone have success using colloidal silver (or anything) for ALS also known as Lou Geiregs disease? I have someone that I am going to try a bottle on and wondered if there is prior knowledge. It is a disease of the nerves and is fatal in about 2 years. Susan L -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSBeating a dead horse???
If you look at this citation page, http://homepages.together.net/~rjstan/rose4.html from Rosemary's site, you will see that all the references except 2 are based on literature published 1940 and earlier!!! From what I've read of the hx. of CS, these instances are most likely ground silver in suspension, not electrocolloidal silver like we make today! If this is such a serious problem TODAY, why is there no reference to cases of argyria today SPECIFIC TO Electro-colloidal silver? (There are NONE in the Fung article - Fung MC, Bowen DL: Silver Products for Medicinal Indications: Risk - Benefit Assessment Clinical Toxicology, 34(l), 119-126(1996) despite how the abstracts would lead you to believe of it's dangers. This is the article I've read in full that helped me decide to take the risk. The other modern day article is dated 1975. (Goodman LS, Gihnan A: The Pharmacological Basis of Therapeutics. 5th edition. New York: MacMillan, 1975:930-931, 999-1000.) Now think about it... what kind of silver product would have been used widely from 1940-1975? My guess is prescription silver salts, not colloidal silver! But from the title, it sounds like this article would focus on the uses for silver. It'd probably be a good one for showing people there's scientific evidence that silver is of therapeutic value! I'd like to track down a copy of that article. Nancy
CSOff-topic... Changing my email address...
Hi, Mike and to all who've addressed me at bigfoot.com ... Regarding my subscription, I'm changing my subscription from silverwo...@bigfoot.com to silverwo...@oikourgos.com to better coordinate with the new location of my silver website (http://oikourgos.com/silverworks) . Mike, I sure appreciate all your effort in keeping the list going so smoothly over the past year +/-. (How long is it now that you've been moderating?) What a viable, productive resource this is! I can also be reached at bernt...@altavista.net (just so you-all know that's one and the same person!) Nancy
Re: CSRe: Quackwatch on CS
I corresponded with someone who did challenge her via email. He finally gave up as she's so set in her ways. I believe she has intentionally chosen to be vague about what she took and refuses to acknowledge the difference between electrocolloidal silver and the silver salt prescription she took. I feel very sorry for her and don't blame her for coming on so strong but she is in error to assume colloidal silver would cause the same problems as silver salts. That's nearly like comparing chlorinated city water to a bottle of Chlorox. Silver salts are typically 1-10% silver (compounds) whereas colloidal silver as we use is typically .0005 - .005% silver. Big difference. What's even odder is that her crowd would say CS doesn't even work. So why in the world did she take CS for so many years for her sinus infections if it didn't work? IMO she was on the wrong stuff; CS probably would have helped her without the side effects of her prescription silver product. I don't even take it regularly and it's halted my impending sinus infections that I used to get 3-4 or more times a year. Not to mention how it helped me with Lyme disease beyond what the antibiotics did, faster and without unpleasant side effects. Nancy http://oikourgos.com/silverworks (non-commercial) -Original Message- From: Pam Whitmire paw...@lcc.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, August 22, 1999 4:56 PM Subject: CSRe: Quackwatch on CS seems to me someone should be questioning her. Isn't Pam -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSFwd: Colloidal Silver
Hi Mike and fellow list members! I'm an RN who was very sick with Lyme disease for an undetermined no. of years. Plateauing in recovery after 26 mo. of oral and IV antibiotics (1994-1996) and much prayer, my MD told me about CS. As a medical professional, he couldn't endorse it, as neither can I, but I share my experience and information nevertheless. He gave me as much information as he had available: the name of someone who used it successfully, and a tape by Dr. Joe Wallach (often highly criticized by quack-watchers). --- Later, he also gave me a copy of the Fung article cited in your attachment. I've read this article in it's entirety and must say that despite it's intent, that was the one article that convinced me I should give CS a try! I gleaned from it many positive findings, i.e., the comparison of strength of CS to prescription silvers, the fact that in rodent studies, increasing antioxidants helped eliminate silver, thus allowing a higher intake of CS without added retention; and finding that CS in low ppm quantities is not much more than what elemental silver one gets in his/her daily diet. This to me meant it would be similar to someone who uses salt or fat somewhat more liberally than the average person but nevertheless is not unhealthy for it (the high end of the bell curve). ALL examples of argyria were linked to overuse of high concentration silver salts and industrial accidents; I *think* (don't quote me!) all instances were in people 30 years ago or more! The Lord also used our dear internet friend and list-member, Marsha H. ; she was amongst the first to answer my questions on news:sci.med.diseases.lyme when I inquired of others experiences with CS for Lyme disease, providing me with easy directions for a generator my husband was able to put together in an afternoon. I am absolutely convinced that God led me to this solution to my illness. I'm even starting to wonder if I might be cured, though I have no scientific proof. The only times I've had symptoms of late were in regard to cold damp weather; my bones ache a bit. This may be a residual effect due to the scars of microbial warfare; I have not had any clusters of neurological symptoms for several months now-- Praise be to God! I still take CS occasionally, being able to avoid antibiotics since Oct., 1996 for any reason other than dental work (due to mitral valve regurgitation). My experience with Lyme disease and CS (for those who don't know me) can be viewed at http://oikourgos.com/silverworks along with numerous links and general CS info I've picked up along the way. I'd be glad to accept your favorite links to add when I update my page (when I get a round tuit!); I prefer as scientific as possible references and genuine testimonies, not hearsay (generalizations). Sincerely, Nancy -Original Message- From: elma...@aol.com elma...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, August 22, 1999 1:58 PM Subject: CSFwd: Colloidal Silver Hi Ho Gang, I have a response from some other inquires I have made. Can anyone tell me what this is about. Thanks. Bob -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSIntestinal Parasites CS
Posting for someone else... Has anyone used CS to treat intestinal parasites? Any other suggestions? Thanks, Nancy
CSSorry, Charlie List
I finally caught on that you have joined the silver list. (I'm behind in general reading). I posted a copy of your post (as you probably already saw) requesting list members to address your questions found on news:sci.med.diseases.lyme not realizing you did directly join the list. Hopefully you don't get bombarded with double the attention from the same people! But at the same time, maybe some other readers of the newsgroup will learn something about CS. Nancy
CS for intestinal parasites?
Does anyone have any information/insight regarding taking CS for intestinal parasites? FYI, I've moved my non-commercial silver web site to a new location: http://oikourgos.com/silverworks . Kindly email me privately if you have a good link for buying .999 pure silver wire, too. A good link I had is no longer valid. I miss you guys and gals! Life is so busy right now. We moved into a new home in April and I'm biting off an awful lot now that that's behind me. Long live silver! My 68 y.o. dad's Lyme-arthritic knees are greatly improved after just a few weeks of CS and he looks better than ever despite a grueling pace he's keeping, working full time still and then after hours... Thanks, Nancy
Re: CSUrinary tract infections reduced with silver
Thanks for posting this, Michael. I used to work in a hospital years ago (RN on a med-surg ward.) It's great to see something published about usefulness of silver in this manner. I wonder if in time they'll (med. product manufacturers) will be coating IV and Central IV lines too, and the implants used for dialysis (name escapes me). They could probably minimize how frequently they have to be changed, too. Nancy -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CS success story
Thanks for sharing; this is wonderful news about your dog Lyme disease. I wish some skeptics had their own dogs with Lyme to try CS on! Your good news may be of interest to news:sci.med.diseases.lyme, an alternative medicine group, or a newsgroup about dogs. Sincerely, Nancy -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CS success story
I've been there, but now some old timers there are asking me serious questions about CS! I've participated on that list since Nov., 1997. That's how I found out about CS-- from our Marsha (at that time of Kenosha??) She sent me directions,etc... It's good to get a letter into the records here and there for those who search DejaNews. (I used that too!) Nancy -Original Message- From: Scharbach myf...@mwt.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 11:36 AM Subject: Re: CS success story If you post on sci.med.diseases.lyme, be prepared to get a lot of backtalk about silver being a hoax!! Right Janis? Sparrow Thanks for sharing; this is wonderful news about your dog Lyme disease. I wish some skeptics had their own dogs with Lyme to try CS on! Your good news may be of interest to news:sci.med.diseases.lyme, an alternative medicine group, or a newsgroup about dogs. Sincerely, Nancy -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CS during pregnancy
I don't know of an article or study specific to CS and pregnancy, but there is reference to a possible problem with elemental silver in drinking water connected to birth defects based on a study in Massachusetts. The reference for this study is: Aschengrau A, Zierler S, Cohen A. Quality of community drinking water and the occurrence of late adverse pregnancy outcomes, Arch Environ Health 1993: 48:105-113. I found reference to this article in a review of literature: Fung, Man C. MD; Bowen, Debra L. MD.: Silver Products for Medical Indications: Risk-Benefit Assessment, Clinical Toxicology, 34(1), 119-126 (1996). Here's an excerpt from p. 124 of the Fung article based on that study in Mass.: There is potential risk for the developing fetus when pregnant women use silver products. A case-control epidemiology study was conducted by Aschengrau et al. among women who delivered infants from 1977 to 1980 in a Massachusetts hospital. Trace element levels of public water were analyzed from the communities in which the women resided during pregnancy. The relationship between community drinking water quality and the occurrence of late adverse pregnancy outcomes was examined . After adjustment for confounding factors, the results suggested some association between drinking water (1/100 of the EPA standard) and some increase in fetal developmental anomalies (ear, face, and neck). As the authors recognized, there are inferential limitations to epidemiologic studies. Further research is needed to explore these findings. Sounds a bit murky, but that's the only reference I know of regarding silver pregnancy. Congratulations to both of you!!! Sincerely, Nancy -Original Message- From: Lou Rafferty rappa...@grapevinenet.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 11:39 PM Subject: CS during pregnancy I am new to this list, but my wife and I have been taking CS for a couple of months now with some very good results. After 18 years of trying to have children, we found out about a week ago that she is expecting. Of course I can't say that the CS is responsible, however it is the only thing that we have been doing differently over the past 18 years. Now the dilemmaher Dr. says that he wants her to stop taking it because he does not have any documented proof that it will not harm the child, much less do anything positive for her. I've read in several sites that say CS is good for a pregnant woman. Does anyone have, or know where I can get my hands on anything that I can use to show the Doc and make him change his mind. We've agreed to do as he says, but we both feel strongly about continuing on with CS, but at this point we'll just have to do as the Doc says, unless we can change his mind. Any documented studies on CS and pregnancy that I can use to support our position??? Thanks Lou Rafferty
Re: CSMy story - Lyme CS; info, Lyme-HBOT Research
Hi Mike list, I think you meant Nancy, and where I used LVAC, that's what I meant; I use an AC to DC converter, but I guess since it's converted to DC I should call it LVDC? Ü Thanks, Nancy -Original Message- From: M. G. Devour mdev...@mail.id.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 4:35 AM Subject: Re: CSMy story - Lyme CS; info, Lyme-HBOT Research Welcome back, Donna! Excellent information. Everyone, just a clarification: You should substitute LV*D*C for LVAC everywhere that Donna used the term. HVAC == High Voltage Alternating Current (Alternating current like you get from the wall plug, only at a much higher voltage) LVDC == Low Voltage Direct Current (Like you get from batteries) Experiments with Low Voltage AC to make CS suggest it is less useful. The *other* permutation of all this, High Voltage DC, has also been used! Is that clearer now!!??? GRINNN Mike D. [Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian] [mdev...@mail.id.net ] [Speaking only for myself... ] - -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSBorrelogen, Lyme, Babesiosis
Posting this for others interested... Amiram Katz, MD, Yale University School of Medicine Sections of Neurology Hyperbaric Medicine Norwalk Hospital Norwalk, CT 203-852-2400 -Original Message- From: Marie atthel...@snet.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, May 20, 1999 7:06 AM Subject: Re: CSBorrelogen, Lyme, Babesiosis Does anyone have the name and/or address of the CT doc who is recruiting for HBOT trials? Rita B atthel...@snet.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSMy story - Lyme CS; info, Lyme-HBOT Research
Dear folks, I apologize for jumping in here with my posts; I have no idea what the current theme(s) on the silver list are. I hope this won't be out of line! I welcome questions about my experience with CS for Lyme disease, and offer my detailed story at http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works , (a non-commercial web page.) Although I have questions and observations below, I don't intend to start a debate on HVAC vs. LVAC, but welcome personal emails regarding others' experiences. I've had good experience with both. MY STORY: I am 2+ months behind in reading the silver digest. I was pretty active in the group from 1997 till a few months ago when we moved temporarily and had a house built for us, and moved again, Apr. 10 to our new house. BTW, on Mar. 22, I broke both my arms roller-skating with my sons at a rink; (broke at the radial head - at the elbow). I don't have brittle bones; just fell really hard on my wrists, sending the impact to the elbow. I have to face it; I'm getting too old now for those triple klutzes! Well, I'm fully recovered now... Just have occasional cracking and aches with bad weather. Took CS in hopes of preventing any bacteria from lodging in the bone. I'll reintroduce myself to all the new people who've joined the list over the past few months. I'm an at home RN, BSN, wife and mother of 4 boys (10-17) whom I homeschool. I have a local monthly support group for people with tick-borne illnesses. I found out about colloidal silver after spending much time in prayer; I've been a Christian since I was 14, and God has helped me through my battle against Lyme disease! I was diagnosed with Lyme disease in Aug., 94, at the age of 36. I had had physical symptoms going back to childhood, but everything worsened in my childbearing years, beginning in 1982. After treatment with antibiotics for about 26 months (till Oct., 1996), about 85% recovered from both physical and neurological symptoms, I plateaued in healing. I had been praying for an answer to get me off antibiotics and back to normal. I switched to colloidal silver (CS) that my MD, thank God, told me about on the side. After two months of gentle improvement beyond what the antibiotics had done, I began making my own CS with a 24 volt ac to dc generator my husband lovingly made for me. I continued CS for several months, and CS brought me to about 95% wellness on average, beyond what I remembered normal to be! I typically took CS 1-3 times a day, a couple tablespoons of 8 ppm at a time (tested for ppm at a local environmental lab for $21). Except for once the following February, my relapses became rare and barely detectable within weeks of beginning CS. After many months, when I stopped taking CS, I found that symptoms and relapses would creep back eventually (after at least 8 weeks without any silver). Now I can go longer without CS, up to 3-5 months, though I will take it short term for colds and sinus infections or other illnesses. I suppose I could just take a few drops daily rather than spot treat every cold or ache, but I am not a terribly consistent person when it comes to taking medications. I've been off antibiotics for Lyme ever since I began CS, and recovered to a point of health I can't remember I last experienced, overcoming fatigue, aches, cognitive problems, etc.. After a five month abstinence from CS, this past fall, I had had mild fatigue, continual headaches, some tinnitus and bone aches. In all honesty, I haven't a clue how much of my symptoms was from Lyme, and how much was from seasonal allergies. But everything subsided once I began taking my LVAC CS, so I have no doubt bacteria was involved. In Dec., '98, I had the opportunity to use HVAC CS from a friend who recently purchased an expensive generator. I suppose if I was very consistent, initially taking CS around the clock as some have suggested, the results may be even better. I don't know, but I'm very grateful for the great degree of recovery I have experienced. I delight in knowing I can maintain my health without going to a doctor, and without any apparent side effects such as I experienced with antibiotics. Personally, I have found the HVAC CS to be more consistent a product, always colorless, non-reactive to light, not needing filtering, and tasting the same. It seems more effective than what I had made myself, too, perhaps having more of the smaller particles (as claimed by the dealer of the unit) than LVAC CS. I believe the low voltage CS was very effective, though, and the price was right! Had I not had this friend with the HVAC unit, I'd still be using my own CS. I welcome any comments on HVAC vs.. LVAC CS for Lyme disease. I believe they are both effective in preventing and treating infections based on my own experience. I guess I'd like to know if HVAC does indeed produce a smaller particle. From what I've read, that's the reason it is stable in light and has a longer shelf life than LVAC, which tends toward darkening and falling
CSBack again; trying new CS
I guess I had my new mail mis-configured and I haven't seen CS mail for 2 weeks. It's probably on my son's computer. So I haven't died or gone crazy, but I am back on CS full force 3 times a day. My experiment with keeping off all treatment for Lyme since May has come to an end as I have noticed Lyme symptoms creeping in once again. After 26 mo. of designer antibiotics, oral and IV, I had been on just CS since Oct., 1996 and doing quite well; better than I ever remember feeling. It's worked better than the abx for me, and not caused any apparent side effects, but I start slipping again whenever I discontinue the CS for over 2 months. Lyme is tough to get completely rid of; I suspect it'd take something even better than chemotherapy to get rid of all of it. But then that'd probably kill the patient too! So I'm back on CS again, this time trying my friend's CS Pro (HVAC) CS, 2-3 oz 3x a day, about 10ppm (probably weaker as it was her very first batch!) I'm holding ground and fatigue is starting to lift (wasn't profound fatigue though). Headaches are gone again, but I'm a little foggy and light headed at times, and getting vague aches, irritability, hair thinning, on and on... etc. This is not a call for empathy; I'm just trying to present some subjective data in case anyone wants to compare my scenario with theirs. I do think the CS is doing something for me but I'm eager to get on a new batch of it. If I don't make significant progress within a few weeks, I may go add antibiotics to the routine for a while. I just don't want to slip into a situation worse than I ever was in before. Lyme can do that if you don't take care of yourself. I haven't updated my story on my webpage yet; I want to wait a few weeks before I do that (probably after the holidays.) Sincerely, Nancy About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSIntroduction and Overview
Please tell me the address of the silver list web site. I don't think I had it bookmarked yet. I just saved an extra copy of the FAQ to have on hand. Nice job, Mike! Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: M. G. Devour mdev...@mail.id.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, October 21, 1998 5:41 PM Subject: CSIntroduction and Overview Dear list, Here's a repost of an introductory FAQ file that has info to help you get started, in case anyone has signed on during this lull and is wondering what's going on. Don't be afraid to ask questions and start a discussion. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSRe: CS and pregnancy
Thanks for sharing the Funk article. That article is about as close as we can come to informed consent until someone specifically puts colloidal silver to the test. My MD gave me a copy of it and it made me feel much better about taking CS once I realized the differences between it and prescription silver products that caused argyria. I am glad to have that article, but caution others that reading brief abstracts of it are very misleading. In context, you will find all the cautions regard large-particle, highly concentrated silver salts, silver protein prescriptions, elemental silver in drinking water, and industrial overdose. Colloidal silver is just tacked on to the article but never directly observed or reported on other than to show some brand names and their strengths in a chart. The strengths are far lower than the silver products that reportedly have caused argyria. The Fung article is just a review of pre-existing research findings, none specific to low ppm, small particle CS. We all get elemental silver in the milk mushrooms we digest, and we are not turning blue. And for years, our ancestors ate with silverware, pregnant or not. I'm not saying it's o.k. to take low ppm CS in pregnancy. I don't have a scientific answer to that. But now we may wonder, is it o.k. to eat mushrooms and drink milk in pregnancy??? :) Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: rickst...@aol.com rickst...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, October 08, 1998 9:16 PM Subject: Re: CSRe: CS and pregnancy Hi Brooks Bradley and all .Please don't shoot the messenger. I am only reporting others research. I agree with you 100%. I was very troubled with the obviously flawed research done by Fung, et al. Please read these papers yourself. My option is that Fung and Bowen have presented a very poor risk/benifit analysis. They have left out critical data to substantiate most of there claims. They have many misleading and conflicting statements which leave me with more questions than answers. This is an important paper for political reasons. I was planning on providing more information on the paper if anyone is interested. -- -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CSAddress for the List Webpage
Dear Mike or group, Please remind me what the address of the silver-list web page. If others could stand it, perhaps this ought to be added to the footer with the other group info for quick reference. Is it ready for non-list people to glean from? I've got someone asking questions and would like to send her directly to this page if it's ready, so she can find out more about CS and the CS list. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSAIDS w/wasting
I'm way behind in posts; maybe someone already suggested this. Supposedly St. John's Wort is being researched at Bethsada (naval hosp.) regarding AIDS. Supposedly it has great anti-viral antibacterial effects. Now wouldn't it be great if they did a companion study on CS AIDS? Sorry I don't have a link; my friend just mentioned this to me on the phone a couple days ago. Finished moving. Took 8 long days! Still settling in! Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: Ni Orsi annib...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, September 23, 1998 11:01 AM Subject: CSAIDS w/wasting Would someone please give me some help with a family member who has AIDS and appears to be in the 'wasting' stage and now wants help. He is 54. Smokes a cigar once in awhile. Doesn't drink coffee, but gets some caffeine from sodas. Drinks about 4 cokes a day. Has an occasional hard drink. I have a Silver Pluser and Water Ozonator. But I have not used them yet. What should I do? Best of Health, Ni. -- -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CS Testimony -- More!
This fellow added at the meeting last night that he had had a lump in his armpit for years, perhaps a swollen gland or cyst. After beginning CS recently, he noticed while showering that is was getting smaller. After two weeks on CS, it is now gone! Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: Jeffrey Platt mariedo...@worldnet.att.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 5:23 PM Subject: Re: CS Testimony Nancy, That is so wonderful to here. Waiting for the day when I can join them. If I ever make it through this herx or whatever this is. My prayers are with him. Donna -Original Message- From: Nancy B. silverwo...@bigfoot.com To: Silver-List silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Friday, September 18, 1998 9:06 AM Subject: CS Testimony An older man from my Lyme disease support group reports back that after 2 mo. of homemade CS, I think it's working. I'm feeling better; still got some aches, but it's really working! Thank the Lord! Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CSLyme vaccine
Dear Bob silver list, Yes, this is one of a few different vaccines being developed for Lyme disease. The truth is that these vaccines are being developed in haste to cure our nation of Lyme hysteria at this time, more-so than to prevent Lyme disease. A doctor from Yale was quoted in the Hartford Courant stating just that. That would be o.k. if it weren't for the serious consequences for some who have sought or would seek to get this vaccine. I have met with a woman from NY suing one of these firms as she was crippled from the effects of the vaccine she had during trials. She is one of many who had unknown previous exposure to the Lyme bacteria or previous cases (supposedly cured) who ended up seriously ill with Lyme disease as a result of having the vaccine. Too many people carry the bacteria unknowingly. This includes my 12 year old, who only proved pos. for Lyme disease this summer after having a blood culture not yet on the market. (Typical tests were all neg. but a culture is fool proof.) Dogs who have gotten the live Lyme disease vaccine with previous hx. of Lyme have also been devastated. I earnestly warn anyone considering getting the vaccine to not do it at this time. There is no approved way of absolutely confirming you have not had previous exposure (tests often result in false negatives). It is far too risky. Furthermore, the vaccines only offer some protection against Lyme bacteria, and no protection against other tick borne illnesses often present with Lyme bacteria (borrelia burgdorpheri). Hopefully, these problems can be addressed. I'm all for a totally safe vaccine, but I am not aware of one to date. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: Tai-Pan l...@fbtc.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, September 17, 1998 2:01 PM Subject: CSLyme vaccine Hi listers, Seen in the sunday paper. A vaccine to protect against lyme available this fall. New England Medical Center in Boston did clinical trials. Vaccine made using recombinant DNA technology. Report by Dr. Vijay Sikand,University School of Medicine, who worked on project. Vaccine is called LYMErix. Thought this may be of interest to some of you. Bless you Bob Lee oozing on the muggy shore of the gulf coast l...@fbtc.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CS Testimony
An older man from my Lyme disease support group reports back that after 2 mo. of homemade CS, I think it's working. I'm feeling better; still got some aches, but it's really working! Thank the Lord! Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CS Lyme Treatment
I had taken CS for Lyme after stopping abx in Oct. 96. I wasn't taking enough, so I had to take it for a longer period of time, though I got significant results on as low as a couple tsp. of 5 ppm 1-2x daily within a few days. This was enough to prevent any sinus infections too. (I haven't had any infections of any kind requiring antibioticts since I began CS; absolutely remarkable for me.) I took higher doses of CS last year, and having been assymptomatic, I quit in the fall of 97. After 8 weeks, I relapsed but rebounded to the same level of wellness (98% average) within just a few days. (read the full story at http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ) I started to heat my distilled water to strengthen the ppm by Feb. of 98 (maybe sooner.) I continued to sustain 98% wellness through May. I quit CS in May (except for 4 doses) through the present. I am continuing to do very well, going into my 4th mo. without CS. I'm riding this out to see how far I get. My allergies have had me a little drowsy, but I have not had any distinct relapses yet; just a few very minor vague aches here or there which I've never gotten rid of completely. I know others are apparently 100% assymptomatic after using CS. I have no idea if this could have to do with the strain of bacteria, the degree of infection, or what. But I will say this. I feel the best I can remember ever since I began taking CS. I probably had Lyme since childhood. I was never totally debilitated, but had forgotten what it was like to feel 100% well, which I often do now. My family couldn't say enough about how much I changed since I started the CS. My creative juices that were frozen thawed; I felt like running and playing, and I did! My shoulders went bad this summer helping my husband lift 3 air conditioners, but I'm getting that back again with exercise. CS never made me feel sick like antibiotics do, and the amt. I've used isn't a whole lot more than what's acceptable for a daily intake in food and water of large particle elemental silver. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: ejfi...@aol.com ejfi...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Friday, September 04, 1998 11:01 PM Subject: Re: CS Lyme Treatment Dear Mike and any who will respond, I am new at trying CS, I am allergic to most of the antibiotics and heard about treatment for Lyme with CS. I have read the Micro-Silver Bullet And other testimonies that may or may not be hype. Are we just exchanging antibiotics for CS and does a chronic Lyme patient need to take it forever to keep Lyme from reoccurring or to keep the colony count down to a degree that one can function? I would like to hear from others who have had success with CS for Lyme treatment and how long do you stay on it. I would like to hear others experience and not just the hype you can read elsewhere Thanks for anyone who will take the time to answer me... Carol -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Off topic from CS; autumn, Less daylight effects
I'm sensitive to decreased daylight that occurs in late Oct., autumn; it's more noticeable in New England than farther south. (I almost count the days till the shortest day is over in Dec!) Last year, I bought some Swedish sort of bulb that has a violet color glass and the light reminds me of late afternoon dusk type sun in the winter. Maybe that's a big change for the Swedes in winter, but it's not bright enough for me at only 60 watts. There's another kind of light bulb sold here in the states. A friend I wonder if the lights light bulbs advertised for this (can't remember the name-- sunlamps??) are really just plant light bulbs. Anybody know? (I don't want ultraviolet light; bad enough I have to put sunscreen on to go outside.) I've seen one turned on in someone's home; it is very bright, sort of light a halogen light brightness wise. We have a halogen lamp but don't like it because of all the heat it throws off and that it is a potential fire hazard. Any info would be appreciated. Sincerely, Nancy B.; Labor Day; cloudy and dark here! ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CS for candida?
Lyme disease had caused some serious twitching in my legs, face elsewhere, and restless legs. Both antibiotics (initially) and later CS brought these symptoms under control. Candida, like L.D. is a systemic illness when advanced. It shares a lot of symptoms that LD. can cause. The gas can be a symptom of it too. Someone was alcoholic from candida despite the fact that he didn't drink. His GI tract acted as a still! (story from The Yeast Connection.) I understand that Lyme disease can cause reflux (and subsequent heart burn). CS has helped me with virtually every Lyme symptom I've had. Perhaps some enzyme source could help too. I've tried papaya. Whereas I love the taste, they didn't seem to do anything for me. I just started taking green vegetable powder to supplement a diet I'm on. To my surprise, raw onion didn't bloat me as it always does. I guess the enzymes in the powder aided my digestion similar to how juicer juice is supposed to. I used to think CS could cause candida as it took a while for all the symptoms to end (because I wasn't taking enough CS for candida). I now believe it arrested my case of systemic candida. My candida symptoms have been gone for months and months, thanks to CS. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: Mark T Squire supplement...@juno.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, September 01, 1998 12:11 AM Subject: CS for candida? I believe I have a condition many antibiotic users have experienced--candida. Would taking CS help this condition? Does anyone have a lot of muscle twitching, especially in the legs? I have persistant abdominal pain, plenty of gas, chest pain, constant muscle twitching, and heartburn. Would CS help me? _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Links that work: Re: more silver color questions
Had to retype these links like this to access them: http://www.zetatalk2.com/health/theal01.htm http://www.wishgranted.com Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: Brooks Bradley liat...@flash.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 5:59 PM Subject: Re: more silver color questions David and Linda, Greetings. Several members of our research staff (we conduct, electro-medical; ecological/environmental basic research, modeling and support devices development...as a non-profit activity) have been involved in CS generation for the past two years and have discovered numerous peculiarities while doing so. One ancillary protocol in particular, has proven to be quite useful and no contravening results have appeared.up to the present. This particular protocol involves the use of one very small drop of unprocessed honey, added to the heated water, just prior to inserting the electrodes. This procedure accelerates the generation process and has the added benefit of mitigating against rapid residue build-up on the electrodes. Evidently, the saccharide derivatives have a beneficial effect upon the silver liberation process. If you would like to examine this procedure, go to http//:www.zetatalk2.com/health/theal.01.htm and click on the Colloidal Silver icon. When the page comes up, click on the highlighted phrase Merlin's Magic near the bottom of the page for a brief synopsis of the protocol. My associates have generated hundreds of batches of CS, using this accessory modality---all quite successfully and without any detectable compromise of the usefulness of the CS solution. Additionally, if you are new to this field of endeavor, a useful web-site (from among many other excellent references) you might find useful is http//:www.wishgranted.com This is a very useful site for general information for beginners. I hope this information is of value to you. sincerely. Brooks Bradley. At 11:25 AM 8/27/98 -0600, you wrote: Hi again, Thanks to those who responded re my question of the cs being blackish-colored. I tried a different distilled water (and all glass containers) and this time it came out totally clear. Still wondering how to get it golden-colord again as I've heard this is necessary for treatment of lyme disease to be effective. Any further thoughts, ideas , opinions on color? Does yours come out clear or gold? I use 3 9-volt batteries, 5 pure silver wire, and I heat the distilled water (in a glass) and keep it warm on a hot plate while making the cs (used to run for 30 min, now trying for 1 hour).Thanks. Linda -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: silver-digest Digest V98 #265
I'm not convinced that color is indicative of CS's ability to destroy Lyme bacteria. If one thinks it is indicative of strength (or doesn't know the strength) of the CS being made/consumed, the answer is to have it tested for ppm. This only costs about $20 at an environmental lab, and some labs get you the results within a couple days. My CS that was not yellow tested at 8.38 ppm, so I just took more of it in order to get about 40 ppm equivalent to treat Lyme disease. It worked very well for me. (See my silver page for my testimony. (http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ) Later, I experimented with preheating the water and then putting my bottle on a cup warmer. This consistently resulted in golden (to dark or blackened if left too long) CS. I have not tested it yet, but presume it has turned yellow because of increased oxidation due to heat, and that it is a likely a stronger concentration due to the heat. A friend on the list reported higher ppm CS by heating the water. I have yet to test mine though to confirm this. A stronger concentration was desirable because I wanted to make more than 2 cups of CS at a time in less time than my original method would yield. Since making it with this method, I've found it more easy to make, so I had been more consistent in taking it. I stopped taking it at the end of May, and have only used it on 4 occasions since then. My Lyme symptoms have not resulted in a relapse as of yet; I'm doing better than last fall when I quit for only eight weeks and had a relapse. I do not attribute this benefit to color, but to ^ strength and ^ amount consumed. I don't think it's scientific to assume yellow is better without any tests to show why. I do know that my colorless stuff worked well, though, and I know it's ballpark ppm. It just took longer to make so I tended to skip doses here and there when I was too busy to make more. I would recommend you test your CS for ppm and then you will know how strong it is, rather than guessing by it's color that it is/is not of a therapeutic strength. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com To: silver-dig...@eskimo.com silver-dig...@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 27, 1998 6:16 PM Subject: silver-digest Digest V98 #265 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: referred..
My page is still there, but an updated version is located at http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works . Thanks for mentioning my page, Clay! Didn't know you were here! Hello God Bless you! Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal silver (non-commercial) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: Clay Anthony rcan...@ibm.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, August 25, 1998 1:27 AM Subject: Re: referred.. Dear Mark: I recommend the following link which was created by a sufferer of Lyme disease. It has other links that refer to the treatment of Lyme disease using colloidal silver. I hope they help you! http://www.connix.com/~berntsen/bb-lyme/c-silver.htm Sincerely, clay anthony -Original Message- From: Mark T Squire supplement...@juno.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Monday, August 24, 1998 11:56 PM Subject: referred.. Hi everyone, I was referred here by several people who recommended the use of colloidal silver to me for my lyme disease. Over two months now of doxycycline usage has barely made a dent in my health, although my symptoms were cut just about in half, I still suffer from 8-12 symptoms on a daily basis. This is no life for me. For the people that have been helped drastically by colloidal silver, speak to me. Let me hear any stories that anyone might have. Has colloidal silver completely cured anyone to the point where they've been symptom free for years? Thanks a lot for everyones time.. --Mark _ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Seeing the fruit of our labor...
I just got this email today regarding my colloidal silver web page; I'm ecstatic! Left the name of the author off.) *** May the Lord Bless you all! Just wanted to give you some encouragement. Your web page on colloidal silver treatment has helped me a lot. I don't think I suffer from Lyme disease (never been tested),but I have had: Chronic migraine, candida-type rashes, lethargy, and depression. Yet I am full of the joy of the Lord. This has made me believe that the causes are rooted in the physical, rather than being spiritual in nature. Since I have started taking CS, I am noticing some dramatic improvement. I just wanted to thank you for your time in helping the rest of us. I hope you all are doing well, keeping your eyes upon Jesus Christ, the Author and Finisher of our faith. How blessed we are to know Him! *** Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha Colloidal silver info: http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Crohn's Disease CS?
I just met an energetic but disabled fellow who's been hospitalized over 30 times in the past year for Crohn's disease, which is a condition (believed to be bacterial) that erodes the intestines and causes serious diarrhea. I told him how CS helped me with Lyme disease, and my husband joined in and added what a difference it has made for me, that I'm 98% better, since Oct., 1996. I'd like more specific info or testimonies regarding Crohns CS. Any suggestions or info, or even heresay? I don't know if someone with Crohns would need to adhere to the level of treatment recommended for Lyme disease, and I also don't know if it would be best to swallow it rather than hold it in the mouth, to potentiate contact impact with the bowels. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: Fever
Just tuned in to the silver list and saw all these posts about the recurring fever. There is a specific tick borne illness called relapsing fever. It's said to occur throughout the world except the southwest Pacific. (Is that where Hawaii is?) Anyway, migratory birds spread ticks, including infecting ones just about anywhere in the world. Apparently there is a blood test developed by the national Institutes of Health's Rocky Mountain Laboratories that can detect all 3 relapsing fever organisms if a blood specimen is taken during acute episodes of the fever. The symptoms generally occur 4 to 18 days after the tick bite. From Karen Forschner's Everything You Need to Know about Lyme Disease and Other Tick-borne Illnesses: Onset of disease is characterized by a sudden chill followed by a high fever and profuse sweating, giving rise to the term 'shake, rattle and roll chills'. Typically, bouts of fever (as high as 105ºF), last 2 to 9 days, followed by a week long period when the bacteria are sequestered and there is no fever. This cycle generally occurs from three to ten times, usually for progressively shorter periods and with less severity Now since you say the fevers occur every 4 weeks, not just a week in between episodes, I would think to look into the other tick-borne illnesses suggested by others: Lyme disease (which generally follows a 4 week cycle), ehrlichiosis (often symptoms are intermittent with periods of no symptoms in between), babesiosis (which can be accompanied by periodic fever). Please realize that blood tests for Lyme disease may be falsely negative despite presence of infection. It is understandable that your doctor is stumped, but obviously some kind of infection is going on in cycles. When I was a kid, we had something called the Echo Virus which seemed to come back every two or 3 weeks for several times. You know, to be honest, I now wonder if that could have been unidentified mycoplasma infection. That's one infection that can drag a person down fast. Anyway, I hope your doctor will be open minded and consider look into these tick borne illnesses as a possible explanation for your child's recurring fevers. The reference to Dr. Joseph Burrascano's Guidelines is possibly the best available information for everyone. Somebody already gave the link to it; the page I access the link from is the Lyme Disease organization from New Jersey, http://www.lymenet.org . The book I mentioned above is an excellent resource regarding tick-borne illnesses. I hope I didn't repeat here too much of what others have said, but wholly agree your child ought to be examined for these kinds of bacterial infections. You might also try fielding your question at news:sci.med.diseases.lyme . That newsgroup addresses all tickborne illnesses, not just Lyme disease. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha ~ -Original Message- From: lm...@aol.com lm...@aol.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, August 06, 1998 3:18 PM Subject: Fever Aloha list! I was just refereed to this list by a nice concerned person. I have a 3 yrs old son, Kanoe...whom has had an unexplained fever for the past 21 Months with *NO* other symptoms! This fever comes every 4 weeks and last for about 4-7 days at about 103-104! We have been to every DR and he has been examined from Head to Toe and have not found a thing! We have exhausted all of our resources and are now being refereed to DR Steihms at UCLA. We live in Hawaii...if anybody has any suggestions we welcome them! Being told at this point now that the DR's and their Specialist can't diagnosis Kanoe that hopefully he'll grow out of them does not sit comfortable with ME!! Thank You -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: silver-digest Digest V98 #240 (HVAC silver)
You sound skeptical. This colloidal silver had a distinct metalic taste, as does mine with the little 24 volt generator. And the girl who took it was finally relieved of unrelenting headaches from neurological Lyme. I interviewed both her mother her father about it. It also prevented bronchitis that she had a history of. Maybe you were just joking. Whether or not, that's o.k. But I don't doubt this was real colloidal silver. And many people who are asymptotic have used hvac and protein silver, so I'm just trying to determine what would be best for me. I've only used CS 4x in the past 8 weeks (on silver sabbatical) but it's time to get back on it. (My shoulders are starting to act up and feel heavy; a sign of a relapse for me.) Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha ~ -Original Message- From: George Martin gmar...@usonet.ne.jp To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 11:40 AM Subject: Re: silver-digest Digest V98 #240 On Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:42:49 -0400, Nancy B. wrote: [snip] = =Another curiosity is that silver plating is done at very low =voltage over a long time. I would think larger particles =are desired for that, maybe even that sludge like stuff. = Actually, the lower the voltage the smoother the finish. If the plating voltage gets too high then the finish tends to be 'grainy'. =The HVAC CS apparently has a longer shelf life too. I would =guess this is because of the particles being very light =weight, and having lots of charge to keep them repelling =each other. = =I saw some my doctor got from one of his patients; it was =kept in a white bottle for weeks, and was colorless. = So is my distilled water... =Sincerely, =Nancy B. Regards, George Martin -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: silver-digest Digest V98 #240
The thing that makes me not so sure about this is that the silver is farther apart, and in the case of the older motherlode (not sure about the newer one) one silver rod is not even in the water. The process is not remarkably faster than our little homemade units either, but there is no build up of silver sludge and there is no need to protect the solution from light as apparently the particles are so small they are not affected by light. That's certainly not true of the silver I make with my 24 v AC to DC unit. It'd turn dark over a day if I left it exposed to light. Another curiosity is that silver plating is done at very low voltage over a long time. I would think larger particles are desired for that, maybe even that sludge like stuff. The HVAC CS apparently has a longer shelf life too. I would guess this is because of the particles being very light weight, and having lots of charge to keep them repelling each other. I saw some my doctor got from one of his patients; it was kept in a white bottle for weeks, and was colorless. Dameon uses Oz brand; is that HVAC? What kind of bottle is it kept in? And what's the estimated shelf life? Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha About Colloidal Silver (non-commercial site) http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works ~ -Original Message- From: silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com To: silver-dig...@eskimo.com silver-dig...@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 3:35 AM Subject: silver-digest Digest V98 #240 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
For Christian von Wechmar
Please tell me more about your experience testing both low voltage CS HVAC CS. I missed that discussion some time ago. What kind of generator did you use for HVAC? Was it clear (microscopically) that the particles from HVAC were larger than low voltage, or could they have been clumps of small particles which I've read about at the ProCS site or the motherlode site? (Can't remember which one.) There's a photo of this at one or both of these sites used as the wallpaper. Also, was the HVAC CS ionic or non-ionic or both? Can anyone comment on whether ionic or non-ionic is better? I can never keep that straight. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: Smallest Particle CS: Key to killing Lyme?
It certainly would be good to get to the bottom of this. It seems that the process using hvac is not any shorter, but perhaps more goof proof and consistent. I certainly would want to be sure the particles are very small whichever method. Sincerely, Nancy B. ~ bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha ~ -Original Message- From: Bruce K. Stenulson stenul...@amigo.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Saturday, August 01, 1998 9:17 AM Subject: Re: Smallest Particle CS: Key to killing Lyme? Nancy B. wrote: The info at the CSPro site regarding the Motherlode regarding smaller particle size could certainly have significance to those treating Lyme disease with CS. Nancy List, A post from Christian von Wechmar earlier this spring is worth noteing; he related making CS with a high voltage AC process, and with a ~27 VDC process, and having the particle size of each analized with an electron microscope at a university research facility. As I remember the results, the HVAC CS had noteably LARGER particle sizes than the low voltage DC generated CS in his study. Maybe Christian will summarize those findings before you follow this approach too far. Others have also commented on current limiting approaches possibly producing a better CS product; I'm inclined to believe there is merit to this thought. Higher voltage may achieve the opposite effect than what is desirable... We'll hopefully get some feedback from the darkfield analysis. (I'm recently trying to borrow a Nikon darkfield microscope for a while from a dentist friend; it's presently not in use, but he does intend to sell it... we'll see if this is possible. Otherwise, Jim Reid may be able to relate what they can or can't observe.) The complete construction project (with photos circuit diagram) for the pulsed DC CS generator circuit is on this web page: http://web.idirect.com/~showcase/althealth/cspulse.htm It uses an Experimenter's breadboard socket for a quick, no-soldering approach. The bonus is that the circuit can also be used as a classic Clark Zapper... easier / quicker / more portable than Hulda Clark's shoebox construction technique in her book. Be Well! Bruce K. Stenulson Applied Technology The Alternate Health Approaches Forum -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Forgot-- Thanks for the info on CSPro!
I got a lot of private emails suggesting that unit. The website is quite impressive and informative; the best I've seen yet. As you can see, my husband would rather make our own; hope someone can offer some plans. Sincerely, Nancy B. || bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha || -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
HVAC System Plans
I asked my husband what hvac meant; he rattled off, heating, ventilation and air conditioning! Well, then when I told him it had to do with making CS, he got it. He got real interested when I told him how much the Motherlode the CSPro units cost. Now he wants plans to make his own, rather than shell out $500+ for someone else's labor. Does anyone have plans for such? Could someone here that's also on the rife list ask this for me on Rife too, and get back to me or give them my email address (bernt...@altavista.net or silverwo...@bigfoot.com )? Many thanks! Sincerely, Nancy B. || bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha || -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: Do any of us live close enough together to meet compare mfg devices?
I'm a fairly reasonable distance from you. I will email you my town phone #. My husband made the device, so it'd be best if he presents it. Also, I'm soon to order a Motherlode; it's$100 more than I expected though! Wish I had a job of my own to pay for this expensive toy. Info on the motherlode can be found at http://www.register.com/motherlode/index.htm . (I'm not advertising; just curious about what others think about this device.) Sincerely, Nancy B. || bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha || -Original Message- From: Robert L. Wells robert.we...@ny.ubs.com To: silver silver silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, July 29, 1998 8:40 AM Subject: Do any of us live close enough together to meet compare mfg devices? Hi List, I've been out of touch for a while. Sorry. I'm a banker and have a loan that is requiring some heavy duty attention grimace. I've followed up with my contact regarding the lab that would do a microbial challenge test (now affectionately known as an MCT on this list), but I don't have any new information yet. I do think that we need to define a standard sample to be tested and am pleased with what I've been reading about progress on this front. So far, I'm up to July 20th messages, so obviously I'm still a week behind. The group moves so fast that I don't know what I'm missing at the moment. I'm wondering if it might be possible for some of us to get together to work on CS. We could compare our devices and share ideas. Most of all, we could simultaneously make a bunch of batches at the same time with similar conditions (same distilled water, etc.) and compare our results. It is simply a logistical question regarding physical location. I live in Wilton, CT (south west corner of CT) and work in New York City. Also, while I'm behind on my e-mail, I haven't seen a source for pure silver wire. Marsha, I know you gave me one once, could you post that again? I think it was for .999 fine. I would also like to go for the . fine. Bob Wells -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
CS-- a Mood Enhancer?
For those with Lyme disease, there seems to be a common denominator here regarding improved mental health and sense of well being, colloidal silver. These observations are not something measurable, yet it's worth spending a bit more time looking over the subjective claims of those who have suffered Lyme disease and taken colloidal silver. Many on this list express the same sort of mental boost, and I will share the experience of myself and someone else off the list below. A man from my Lyme disease support group has begun using homemade colloidal silver. Over the past nearly 20 years, he has been misdiagnosed with cardiac arrest, MS, arthritis, mental illness, you name it. He finally was treated for Lyme D. with IVs long enough to get a positive response, but not long enough for cure. He's since been banned from abx by his conservative doctors. As of the last mtg, he was still experiencing arthritic pain from LD, but explained a big change in himself since he began CS a couple weeks before. He now has ambition back; he feels good mentally and is full of ideas of things he wants to do (but at this time is physically restrained due to pain.) I experienced that very same response once I began CS for Lyme disease (October, 1996). No antibiotic for LD made me feel this good about myself and life. I do believe that some effect of CS enhanced the creative juices in me and gave spark back to my life (all areas). My whole extended family took note of this distinct change once I began CS. I had not suffered chronic depression from LD but LD certainly had taken a mental toll on me. Once I started CS, I found I didn't have enough hours in the day to do all I want to do! (I was starting to wonder if I could be manic-depressive!) But I am thankfully not. I'm just feeling well, very well. And it had been years since I had felt that good. Taking CS was like coming out of hibernation for me. I do think this response is likely a direct result of riddance of LD bacteria in the brain. Certainly that can be a chemical response. What kept me from getting true chronic depression? Well, I was never prone toward depression to start with. I think it is partly personality, and largely my trust in God. Lyme disease definitely dragged me down, and I had many disappointments to deal with every time I relapsed. But since I started on CS, the change was so dramatic that I did actually feel euphoric most of the time now, similar to how I felt on prednisone for a few days after a tooth extraction (several years ago.) The difference is that this sense of well being does not go away if I stop taking CS for a few days or weeks. This is really me, not some drug effect. I'd be curious to know if it has this effect regarding others with bacterial infections. I see that several of us with LD experienced this, and I recall discussing it in the early days of my use of CS with Marsha. We were amazed at what we had been missing in life and wouldn't have known had we not been on CS. Life was exciting once again! And the feeling hasn't gone away! I'd like to know what some other LD people have experienced too. Perhaps I could compile an anonymous log of accounts regarding this phenomena for use on my silver page or on the silver list web page (at some future date.) I'd want to know a brief summary of the individual's health history (mental physical), what treatment for LD was used how long, and what his/her use of CS was and what the response was. At this point, I can only collect the data. I'll have to compile it later. I probably won't be posting on this list for a while, but I will respond to personal emails. We got two offers and a contract to purchase our house after over 7 years on and off the market, Praise God! Finally it appears it's his timing to move. I've got lots of sorting and packing to do! Sincerely, Nancy B. || bernt...@altavista.net ch...@altavista.net Home schoolers: CHEAP used books http://www.oikourgos.com/cheap Oikos Interactive Family Journal http://www.oikourgos.com/oikos Lyme Disease info: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha Colloidal silver (non-commercial site): http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works || -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List
Re: HI-POWER *AC* CS GENERATOR
I think I've mentioned the Motherlode (about $400); haven't gotten one yet; it's on my list of expensive toys to get within the next 6 mo. It can process up to a gallon of CS, pretty high ppm if desired; doesn't require wiping wires or filtering or dark glass bottles, and processes fairly quickly according to literature I have on it. A teenage girl I know used this CS (her mother made it for her). She had severe headaches with Lyme disease and is now asymptotic. I'm sorry that you lost another friend; thanks for letting us know. I hope you can find a better doctor, too. Sincerely, Nancy A web address for it is: http://www.register.com/motherlode/p049.htm -Original Message- From: likow...@earthlink.net likow...@earthlink.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, July 12, 1998 2:49 PM Subject: HI-POWER *AC* CS GENERATOR Hello Listers, Would the person(s) who posted that they were using the expensive AC GENERATOR (I think around $600) during that AC/DC debate some months back please stand up? Also, anyone else who has knowledge in this area or knows of similar generators. I would like to ask some questions. Thank you - Dameon -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: TDS-1 What it actually does!
This sounds more like an answer to my original question a week or so ago. I thought it would only measure ionic silver and not include non-ionic silver. Thanks for clarifying. Nancy B. -Original Message- From: Bruce K. Stenulson stenul...@amigo.net To: bjs1...@theramp.net bjs1...@theramp.net Cc: George Martin gmar...@usonet.ne.jp; silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Sunday, July 12, 1998 8:42 AM Subject: Re: TDS-1 What it actually does! bjs1779 wrote: It should be noted that the TDS can not identify ionic particles. Bob reported as much with his conversation with the manufactures of the TDS meters. At least that is my memorey of what he said. bjs It might be mor accurate to state that the TDS1 does not differentiate between ionic and non-ionic particles; it does a conductivity test to calculate total disolved solids. (All particles in the fluid being tested.) Bruce Stenulson Applied Technology -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
TDS-1 Tester-- Unanswered Question...
It was my understanding that this device measures ions. Therefore, we don't know the ppm of all silver in our concoctions, but the ionic ppm of silver, no? Without a standard lab test for total silver content, we're not getting the whole story, are we? May be it's an insignificant amount, but maybe not. Just my 2¢. Sincerely, Nancy B. (Former post from Bob Wells) f you don't know how to get a TDS-1 tester, below is information from a previous post. For the record, I have no connection to Hanna Instruments other than having purchased one of these devices. By the way, don't leave the switch on when you put the device away. The batteries do run down grin. To call Hanna Instruments to order a TDS-1 call: 1-800-HANNAUS or 1-800-426-6287. Bob Lee recently gave an e-mail address for the TDS-1 and there have been some discussion recently regarding results. I became interested enough to decide to buy one and found Hanna Instruments on the web. For those interested, the TDS-1 is for sale for $14.90. For details, check the following URL: http://www.hannainst.com/info/tdspromo.htm -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: CS or MSP?
Please take note: 3 weeks of antibiotics is grossly inadequate, regardless of use of colloidal silver. If your doctor refuses to prescribe 6 weeks, you need another doctor. Go to http://www.lymenet.org and carefully view Guidelines for Managing Lyme Disease by Dr. Joseph Burrascano for more sound details regarding diagnosis and antibiotic treatment of Lyme disease. There is a lot of old, outdated and harmful information used by too many doctors still regarding treating Lyme disease, resulting in preventable undertreatment, misdiagnosis, and chronic illness. I've had chronic Lyme for who knows how long, and 3/4 of my sons have had it too. One was recently reinfected with no bulls eye rash apparent. Caught early and treated long enough with proper antibiotics (six weeks) there likely will be no relapse for your child. (Of course, reinfection by another tick can occur as did with my youngest child.) Antibiotics were very useful in treating me, but colloidal went beyond what the antibiotics could with my advanced case. Also beware of the possibility of coinfection by another bacteria from the tick. For more info, visit my web pages: http://www.oikourgos.com/trisha and http://www.freeyellow.com/lyme-borreliosis . Also, http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works for my info page (pros, cons, instructions, my experience with CS for Lyme disease.) Mild silver protein is a type of colloidal silver that is so concentrated that it requires a gelatin type protein to keep the silver evenly distributed, fostering longer shelf life and salability of the product. Home made colloidal silver does not require this because it is used regularly and shelf life is not an issue. There is no need to use salt to make CS. Some people use a tiny bit of salt or baking soda as an electrolyte to get the process started sooner though. Some people caution against using salt because it produces silver chloride. In large quantities, silver chloride could be harmful. At the least, it binds up silver that could have been available in ionic form for CS otherwise. An alternative to speeding the process is to use 1/4 of previously made CS and 3/4 distilled water. Color could be indicative of oxidation of the silver. The faster the silver is made (i.e., by preheating or warming the water), the more this color is apt to occur. Exposure to light can darken CS too, so it should be kept in a glass jar that is either opaque, kept in a box, or cobalt blue or brown glass. Color of CS may also be indicative of larger particles. The paler, supposedly the smaller. Smaller particles can reach more restricted areas of the body and presumably pass out of the body more easily as well. I have reference links to excerpts of Zane Baranowski's Colloidal Silver, the Antibiotic Alternative which has a good discussion on color of colloidal silver and the implications as well as other information about CS on my colloidal silver page. Sincerely, Nancy B. -Original Message- From: Karen Pickel peg...@rapidnet.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Friday, July 10, 1998 1:22 AM Subject: CS or MSP? what is the difference between Collodial Silver and Mild Silver Protein? Also, I have read that when home cooking CS that it should be 1) clear and 2) it should be amber. Also that salt shouldn't be added, and then that salt SHOULD be added...??? Obviously I am new at this. I was just dx with Lyme a week ago (bulleyes rash) and put on antibiotics for 3 weeks. I have heard such good things about CS that I want to give it a try, but these questions have me curious as to what is what. THANKYOUVERYMUCH!! Karen Pickel peg...@rapidnet.com Over The Fence Graphics and Web Design ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Consciousness: That annoying time between naps. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: Doctor bashing
-Original Message- From: Susan M. Yensen syen...@clearwater.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, July 07, 1998 6:23 AM Subject: Re: Doctor bashing Hi, No one needs my 2 cents worth but here it is. I too have experienced some horrendous and even criminal actions on the part of MD's. I know this is not all of them and that some are REALLY trapped by their profession. Some have actually left and retrained in disgust. But when it comes to the pocket book, I suppose we are all capable of the best and the worst in each. Money truly is the root of a lot if not all evil. I appreciate the points you make in your post. I think it's good that many of us are getting our thoughts off our chests regarding doctors. One minor correction: the Bible verse you refer to is commonly misquoted. It actually is Love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. No doubt love of money has caused a majority of problems in our society, our nation our world. (If it were money itself that were evil, I'd burn all mine. But it would be awfully hard to survive in this kind of society.) I'm glad making using colloidal silver doesn't require much investment, should our financial system collapse! Sincerely, Nancy -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Sorry for Redundancy Re: Doctors
I was behind in a couple silver digests and didn't realize I was responding to an old post about doctors which ad plenty of replies already. I'm sorry if I bored anyone with points others had very nicely stated already. Sincerely, Nancy -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: Testing CS/grapefruit seed extract
Debbie others, -Original Message- From: Debbie McDonald lullw...@flash.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 11:19 PM Subject: Re: Testing CS/grapefruit seed extract ... I did not log my symptoms so have no idea as I have worse brain fog tooG, again, a major bad symptom that I am now wondering if CS helped by killing whatever it was that is affecting my brain??. I have not taken much since(CS) and so will start again on some store bought (yuck) till I get up and running, husband is slow on thisG and I should think my results will be very scientific if my pain goes awayG. Debbie McDonald mailto:lullw...@flash.net I was plateaued at about 90% better from Lyme disease as a result of 26 months antibiotic treatment. After that I started taking CS and continued to get another 5%+ better. Wish I had started the CS sooner, but then I wouldn't have known what was helping me. At the time I quit abx, I was still experiencing ear buzzing, cognitive problems (memory loss, finger confusion on the keyboard), constant aches in my feet hands (no swelling though), occasional bone pain (like a waxing/waning tooth ache occurring at least weekly-- I imagined a little spirochete drilling into a nerve ending!) and different degrees of muscle/joint pain on and off. I also still had some brain fog, but didn't realize it (thought it was just me) as the abx had helped so much already. Something was always present at any given time. But when I took CS, within days, I started feeling even better. I was amazed to finally attain days on end without the pain in my hands feet, without a twinge of bone pain; with no buzzing in my ears-- not even hissing! I finally had days on end without cognitive challenges, and I was full of energy and ideas, indicating brain fog I was unaware of was lifting. I only experienced this sort of thing once on antibiotics; at that time, I took a 3 week breather only for the symptoms to return. I have faced the fact that I may always need a maintenance dose of CS. Lyme disease is tough to totally get rid of. That's not my point, though. My point is that in my experience, CS has helped tremendously to alleviate both physical and neurological manifestations of Lyme disease. I do think CS passes the blood brain barrier, unlike many large antibiotics. Of course I can't prove this, but what I've personally experienced tells me so. Thanks for clarifying about grapefruit (Vs grape) seed extract too, Debbie. I for one didn't pick up on that till you mentioned it in your post. Sincerely, Nancy -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Off-Topic: Lyme Test Breakthrough
For those with negative Lyme tests, there is hope on the horizon for proof of infection, which will pave the way for treatment and more research. Dr. Steven Phillip of Ridgefield, CT, and Dr. Lida Mattman of ?forgot?, Michigan have developed a blood culture test that has shown living Lyme spirochetes (borrelia burgdorpheri) in numerous patients treated earlier for Lyme for weeks and months who were otherwise seronegative. It is not currently covered by insurance, but a few doctors are using this test now. I had to pay about $144 to have my ADD son tested yesterday. (He also has a few unexplained physical symptoms that could be neurological, which could mean Lyme.) The results of this culture will be available in less than two weeks now that Dr. Mattman has a better microscope. This could be a major breakthrough for people with chronic Lyme who's doctors have written them off as hypochondriacs or labeled them with various untreatable syndromes (i.e., fibromyalgia, MS, lupus, Alzheimers to name a few.) Sincerely, Nancy Berntsen -Original Message- From: silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com To: silver-dig...@eskimo.com silver-dig...@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 3:08 PM Subject: silver-digest Digest V98 #182 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Lyme Disease Primer; CS for Lyme disease
For some excellent information on Lyme disease by Dr. Joseph Burrascano (MD), go to http://www.lymenet.org and click on the left column where he is named. His writing is titled, Guidelines to Managing Lyme Disease. New information not only indicates less than 50% of people get the bulls eye rash, but now it has been shown that the bulls eye rash is not the most common rash to Lyme disease! For more information, contact the Lyme Disease Foundation: www.lyme.org lyme_...@aol.com 1-800-886-LYME (taped info) or 860-525-2000. Although taking colloidal silver is likely a good preventative, there is evidence that amoxicillin, doxycycline, Keflex and some other prescription antibiotics are very effective in early treatment of Lyme disease, though not one is declared the cure to date. I've had 2 children treated this way for early Lyme infection with apparent 100% success. The usual course of treatment for acute Lyme disease (LD caught early) is not 2, not 4 but SIX weeks of antibiotics. The borrelia burgdorphi bacteria (spirochete) has a life cycle of 4 weeks, so to ensure killing the first cycle and any offspring, anything less is Russian roulette. Likewise, when it's known that antibiotics are effective, why mess around with just CS and an unknown dosage? Believe me, you don't want to find out the hard way, months or years later that you didn't take enough. I realize some people don't trust MDs. This is very unfortunate. We always hear about the bad ones. But there are far more good ones! Not all know enough about Lyme disease (or fill in the blank with any ailment), but that doesn't make them all bad overall. Don't get me wrong. I love CS and what it does for me! I've had Lyme for who knows how many years, just diagnosed in 1994. After 26 months of just abx and a few supplements (vitamins, Co-Enzyme Q10), I reached 85-90% wellness. Since then, about 19 months now, I've maintained that degree of health and gone beyond to at least 95% wellness on CS (and some supplements) without any antibiotics. I'd be scared to be without it, especially as bacteria continues to become drug resistant and antibiotics do take a toll on the body-- GI tract, liver, kidneys. If I had it to do over again, knowing what I know about CS Lyme, I would have taken CS in conjunction with the antibiotics, but not exclusively. Then switch to just CS to maintain my health once I reached as much progress as possible on the antibiotics. Lyme disease is not something to mess around with. The more strategies you have to attack it, the better. Also note, just as the rash is not as common as everyone thinks, false negative blood tests are also more common than many a doctor will admit. The diagnosis of Lyme disease is based on symptoms, history and clinical findings; lab tests may or may not confirm infection. These are the CDC guidelines for diagnosing Lyme. (Dr. Burrascano has a good discussion on diagnostic criteria.) Also, now that you know, NEVER throw a tick away. You can send it to a lab to be tested for Bb. For an address, go to http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/lyme-borreliosis and click on the link for more information. Then once on that page, do a search with your browser for UCONN without the . The test costs about $20. One more thing: ticks transmit a lot of other nasty diseases besides the most common, Lyme. You need to consider testing for ehrlichiosis babesiosis, and beware of other illnesses such as tick paralysis, relapsing fever, and others. Sorry to come on so strong; I'm now moderating a self-help group for people with tick-borne infections. I've only had Lyme, but people co-infected with these other diseases would be infuriated if I didn't warn about them. Some are life threatening and they've had a terrible time getting a proper diagnosis. Sincerely, Nancy -Original Message- From: silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com To: silver-dig...@eskimo.com silver-dig...@eskimo.com Date: Tuesday, June 23, 1998 1:04 PM Subject: silver-digest Digest V98 #173 -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
A Closer Look at Silver Argyria: was Re: Colloidal Silver (The Jacobs story)
Thanks, Michael. This is the same woman I was thinking of. She took CSP which I assume was a prescription colloidal silver protein. I'm pretty sure I read that it was a prescription. That's one clue. The protein is needed to keep large concentrations of CS in the solution. This is the second clue that she was dealing with a lot of silver. We have no idea of the particle size or concentration, but I have found from the Fung article (Silver Products for Medical Indications: Risk-Benefit Assessment, Journal of Toxicology, vol 34, no.1, pp 119-126, 1996) that the prescription silvers are quite high in both concentration and PPM compared to the colloidal silver most of us are making taking. I am glad someone posted seeing a gray skinned person; that is only the second incidence I know of. I have never seen anyone with this appearance except due to anoxia-- lack of oxygen. I'm curious if anyone else knows of someone with argyria, and what silver products were linked to it. Below is a summary of my findings from the Fung article I cite at my webpage, http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works . I posted a similar email to the list probably at least a year ago, so this will be new information to some people. The Fung article does indicate that the referred dose of silver (acceptable amt. for oral elemental silver exposure) is 5 ug/kg/day for the average person. The critical dose is estimated at 14 ug/kg/day. Regarding safety in drinking water, EPA states ,0.1 mg/L.[NOTE: ug is microgram; 1 PPM=5 ug.] The maximal daily silver exposure for a 5 kg infant to a 70 kg adult would be less than 25-350 ug/d. The article goes on to say, If the silver is drinking water sources meets EPA guidelines, an average person who drinks 2 L/d is exposed to less than 200 ug of silver. However, a regular daily diet may contain up to about 90 ug of silver as a background level or exposure. (I.e., wheat flour: 0.3 ug/g, gram: 0.9 ug/g, mushrooms, up to several hundred ug/g of silver, milk, 27-54 ug/L.) (p 120) Currently, available CSP products promoted for medicinal or mineral supplement purposes are reported to have an active silver ion concentration of about 1-6 PPM (5-30 ug) per dose. (p 121) Although the active ionizable silver concentration is in the few PPM range, the total silver content of the individual products may be much higher. I don't understand that rationale; PPM is parts per million. My lab does not differentiate active silver ions from total silver content. The test is for total silver content which last tested at a mere 8.38 PPM. My new stuff is probably about 20 PPM made with heated water; still haven't tested it yet. Here's a potentially significant remark regarding research: ...Bunyan et. al. showed that if rat diets were supplemented with selenium or vitamin E, exposure to silver as high as 140 mg/kg/d was still well tolerated. When absorption is limited, systemic silver toxicity occurs infrequently. However after ingestion, up to 10% silver ***salts*** may be absorbed. [Note discussion is of SALTS, not over the counter CS or even of CSP]. Elimination is primarily via fecal elimination with active biliary excretion... In evaluating the few cases of argyria discussed in this article, all involved silver salt products of 1% concentration or higher, or due to industrial accidental exposure! This would be 1 part or more per 100 (ONE HUNDRED), FAR FAR greater a concentration than even 100 PPM-- which would be the same as 1 parts per/10,000! There is no listed silver salt product under 1% in this article; many are 10% and even up to 75% solutions! Others are expressed in mg/g (I.e., 1-10 mg/g) which would be milligrams per gram, again, a measure of parts per 100. My colloidal silver is no where near these concentrations, not to mention particle size which remains unknown regarding these prescriptions. I imagine they could be microscopically large hunks of ground elemental silver-- the bigger the better???! As far as what Rosemary took, the only product on the list that looks similar in name description is a prescription, Argyrol SS 20%, which is listed as 20% MILD SILVER PROTEIN, used as an ophthalmic antiseptic. The nasal variety is not listed as it apparently has been removed from the market. No wonder she turned blue, if her medication was 10 or 20% concentration! That's 20 parts per HUNDRED, whereas most of us are using no more than 45 parts per MILLION (I.e., commercially prepared OTC silver protein at 45 PPM). That would be .45 parts per 100! As a side note, why would a person keep taking this stuff for years? It must have worked! It is just terribly unfortunate that the formulation was such that it caused argyria. But that doesn't mean its a placebo! Just that it had serious undesirable side effects. Too bad it was the variety known to cause argyria-- high in concentration and particle size. Get the picture? I really think this is a case of making a
New Subject: WAS Re: About my letter to Lyme Research List
Everybody should feel free to change the subject name when deemed appropriate as a topic evolves into another unrelated one over time. It's hard to trace new subjects with old, inappropriate titles like this one has had for weeks I think. (Does anyone besides me remember what the original one was about? gr Sometimes it can be humorous, but it's more helpful to give a title that suits the subject for those of us who keep every digest for future reference. Cordially, Nancy B. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Newspaper article about Colloidal Silver me!
Carrie called me about my Lyme disease support group after seeing my support group poster at a local library. She came up with this well-conveyed article. She included a fair amount of attention to my use of colloidal silver, too! The phone calls have already started coming in, and I'm getting as many questions about the silver as I am about my support group! Now wouldn't it be interesting to have a seminar on how to make colloidal silver (and generator)! Of course I'd have to heavily enforce that I am not prescribing anything and that anyone who uses it must consider it a self-medication used at their own risk. In telling people about it, I always recommend they consult with their healthcare practitioner about it.) All I would add to the article (which was left out) is STAY AWAY from Lyme vaccines for now, and beware of other tick-borne illnesses that may coincide with Lyme disease. Maybe she can have a follow-up article about the vaccine. Norwich Bulletin, vol. 139, Issue 152, Monday, June 1, 1998, page 1 Rally seeks more focus on Lyme disease By Carrie Cussen, Norwich Bulletin WINDHAM - At this stage of her life, Nancy Berntsen of Windham will do whatever it takes to keep her Lyme disease symptoms at bay. Eight years ago - when Berntsen was in her mid-30s - she noticed her health slowly decline. She was having serious allergies, menstrual problems, a strange buzzing in her ear and peculiar body aches. During the next couple of years, she was able to get her allergies treated, but then her hair started falling out and more aches appeared. People were telling me I was getting older and it was nothing to worry about, Berntsen said. But by 1994, virtually every bone in her body ached and she noticed a blotchy rash waxing and waning throughout her body. It was then she decided to go to a doctor. The tests for Lyme disease came back positive and she was prescribed antibiotics for three weeks. her health did not improve. Signs of depression coincided with the aches, and her joints worsened. so she went on antibiotics and stuck with them for two years. But she stopped taking them and eventually began taking a homemade treatment that has kept the tickborne disease in remission. For the past 18 months, Berntsen has ingested colloidal silver daily. The treatment is controversial, because some people believe colloidal silver is argyria, [sic] or silver slats. Industrial exposure to silver salts [sic] turns human skin blue. My current doctor did not prescribe it or endorse it, Berntsen said. I take it at my own risk, but it really has helped me feel much better. It gives me independence. And my skin has not turned blue. Wednesday, a rally outside the annual doctors' convention at Yale New Haven Hospital's [sic] Harkness Auditorium at 333 Cedar St., New Haven, will support Lyme disease awareness. For information on the rally, call 203-374-3844. The purpose of the rally is to make more doctors aware of the potentially dangerous health hazards if Lyme disease in not treated more aggressively, Berntsen said. The problem for many people diagnosed with Lyme disease, Berntsen said, is that many doctors do not take the disease seriously and believe it is easily treatable. They too often prescribe antibiotics for a limited amount of time and are too quick to consider the disease cured. hat's precisely what happened to Marcia Linker, 36, of Easthampton, Mass. In 1992, the formerly active Linker was diagnosed and was prescribed three weeks of antibiotics. At that point, my doctor considered me cured, but I still had symptoms, Linker said. I even went back for tests and they came back negative. Although she still suffered from Lyme disease symptoms for years, she was not re-diagnosed until 1995, when she came down with serious flu symptoms. She has been on antibiotics ever since. To date, Lyme disease has kept her out of work for two years. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
About my letter to Lyme Research List
On news:sci.med.diseases.lyme I found an announcement for a Lyme research list. I'm not a researcher and don't want to join the list, but did go to the home page about it-- lyme-l-requ...@home.ease.lsoft.com and decided to submit the following (long) letter below suggesting someone research colloidal silver once and for all. == Thank you for posting about your Lyme research list at the Lyme disease news group. I am delighted that such a list exists! Please bear with my inquiry; detail is included in hope that someone you have contact with may be interested in researching this further. I don't belong on your mailing list. I do not have the background or financial means to design or conduct research regarding Lyme disease. On behalf of the thousands of individuals suffering from advanced Lyme disease, I earnestly would appreciate contact with anyone on your list interested in studying a possible remedy or treatment I've come across. I am not a researcher but an unemployed (by choice) registered nurse. I would like to bring to your attention that there are many people self-medicating with colloidal silver (both commercial preparations and home made preparations) for Lyme disease who have subjectively speaking, gotten favorable results. Some have claimed to be asymptotic following several weeks self-medicating, no longer requiring treatment of any kind. Apparently colloidal silver was used in the past (pre antibiotics) to treat syphilis and other bacterial infections. I am well aware that many doctors and researchers would consider studying colloidal silver a waste of time. However, having been on many different antibiotics for Lyme disease and having tried colloidal silver myself, I think differently. I know of physicians who, although professionally have chosen not to prescribe colloidal silver, have provided information or approved of self medication with colloidal silver for Lyme disease. One doctor provides an article about it for those who ask (cited later in my letter). I began using home made colloidal silver October, 1996, after plateauing on 26 months of various helpful antibiotics for advanced Lyme disease. Personally, I have been able to maintain a high level of health since then, subjectively improving from 85% post antibiotics to a current 95-98% well (aside from occasional problems with allergies). It 's been 20 months now, and, although I've had some minor symptoms on occasion, I have not had to use any antibiotics for any type of infection since I began using CS. (I used to have 3 or 4 sinus infections a year requiring antibiotics.) I do notice increase in symptoms when I stop taking colloidal silver for several days or weeks, though. I have concluded that CS at the dose and strength I've been taking keeps the bacteria in check but has not eliminated it altogether. I don't believe I've taken it as consistently or in the dosage that others claiming full recovery have used. I am aware of several people who are or have used colloidal silver for Lyme disease with apparent success; many of us participate on a mailing list of mostly lay people and homeopath type health care providers called silver-list@eskimo.com. We strongly desire that someone or some group of professionals with a strong scientific research background would look into the effectiveness of colloidal silver seriously. There are questions about its safety, effectiveness, proper strength and dosage, and how it actually works. The only medical data I've found on the subject is a general critique of all silver medications based on studies linking over-used highly concentrated, large particle silver salts and accidental industrial exposure to argyria. I believe this information has erroneously applied to colloidal silver. Colloidal silver in its various forms (electro colloidal, ground, suspended in protein) needs to be examined individually. None of the studies cited identified any findings specific colloidal silver, which has a much smaller particle size (presumably more easily eliminated from the body than prescription silver salts) and of a much smaller concentration (far closer to the U.S. daily referred dose of silver than what one would get using prescription silver products for any period of time.) The article I refer to is Silver Products for Medical Indications: Risk-Benefit Assessment, Clinical Toxicology, v.34, #1, pp 119-126, 1996, authored by Man C. Fung Debra L. Bowen. Also, many doctors are telling patients that apparent success of colloidal silver simply a placebo effect. I take exception to that; I have kept close observation of myself since I began using colloidal silver and have no reason to doubt it has helped me get better. But without proper scientific study, my own findings are not a valid either. As I stated earlier, I've found that I've improved while taking it, and regressed when discontinuing it. In addition, the
Where's the Silver? was Re: Using Solar to Make CS
Dear Silver List, I know for sure now that my first post about solar CS didn't make it. I must have not used my member address that time. The response to my repost has been overwhelming! I appreciate all objective information that has been posted. I will be turning edited versions of that over to my husband to review. I don't have a good handle on electronics myself, but he does. I got some good references off the list from a list member too; thanks, Bill. It would have been helpful if the subject on the list had been changed once the useful content had been exhausted. (Suggestions: Bickering Brothers or Flaming Darts or Low PPM Silver Dung). These Re: misnamed posts were a waste of my time. Self control on the internet regardless of your situation is far easier than when you are talking in person. There is no excuse for dumping trash on the list with so many opportunities to stop before pushing the send button. Second opinions and criticism regarding scientific views should be welcomed when presented objectively and constructively. But why pour salt on wounds or bring up negative emotion and unrelated or irrelevant side issues? Any emotional content should be that of emotional support, not destruction. A hostile atmosphere makes it awkward for someone like me to do anything other than ask a question, and then I have my doubts whether it's worth asking. (What if my question is deemed stupid by someone, or I misspell something???) Based on private emails I get, I wonder how much other good info is getting sent privately to avoid public rebuke? We must remember that both new old list members are here for facts, not flareups. The bickering brothers ought to take their squabbling off the list and just stick to the facts and hypotheses here. You are at risk for loosing posting privileges. Doesn't that mean anything to you? Even if offenders remain on the list, their posts with insight may go unread due to past reputation. They can obscure legit posts like the 2 most recent I almost skipped. I thought the dung debate was continuing when in fact these posts simply clarified the yet unanswered questions that started the tiff. While I'm at it, another general suggestion: can we cut the petty criticism of typos and mis-spellings? I've seen this here and elsewhere too many times. This isn't a spelling bee. It always comes across as a cheap shot at somebody, often intending to hurt, not help. Otherwise it would have been brought up privately, not where everyone else could view it. MANY very intelligent people never could type well or spell, and some people have lost their ability to type or spell due to illness. Then there are some very intelligent people who can't communicate at all, like how Helen Keller was for years. We all have fallen brains (as my husband puts it). Just that some limitations are easier to hide than others. How blessed we are to have the internet to communicate, regardless of our IQ or abilities. Thank God for this list in particular. If I had to count on hand written messages to send and receive all this information, I'd still be on antibiotics, probably ruining my liver and my kidneys and more, and typing and spelling poorly due to neurological Lyme damage that CS has reversed for the most part. The good news is that poor spellers and typists on our list can improve their appearance for the sake of those who struggle to overlook it. A spell-checker (built into some mail programs like MS Outlook) can quickly make posts more readable. I set up my program to check every outbound email for spelling now. I'm surprised what it picks up. (It tries to clean up the letter I'm responding to as well; that's when I stop send!) Personally, I have a lot more fun deciphering poorly spelled and typed posts that are rich in CS content than I have looking at a pile of dung very low in silver content -- too low to measure. Proverb for the day adapted for the silver list: How pleasant it is when brethren* of the silver list dwell together in harmony! *to be PC add, and sistren! Sincerely, Nancy B. http://www.freeyellow.com/members2/silver-works -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Fw: Colloidal Silver made with solar energy?
Has this topic come up before? I'd like to know how feasible it would be to convert a 27 volt battery powered or 24 ac to dc powered CS generator to solar (perhaps interchangeable). I use the simple homemade generator with two silver wires attached to the electric source (a 24 volt ac to dc generator concealed in a plastic box) by alligator clips and wire, with an external light bulb I ignore most of the time. I know Radio Shack sells little solar gizmos but how much voltage can you get out of them? Is it feasible to make colloidal silver this way in the event of a black out (for whatever reason: you ran out of batteries, ran into hurricanes, tornadoes, Y2Ks, you didn't pay your electric bill, you ran away,...) ÜÜÜ I really don't want to be without this stuff for more than a few days at a time. I like it so much better than antibiotics, and it may be the only thing that works if the antibiotic crisis (bacterial resistance) continues as it has been. Sincerely, Nancy -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
Re: insight/herx
Thanks for the very informative post, Susan. (If this is too much off topic, you can privately email me. I've got some questions.) I've found great benefit in using Beano to eat various vegetables and beef fat (sorry, haven't given beef up yet!) I'm curious about other enzymes; my allergies are causing continual mild upset stomachs. It causes me to crave carbohydrates which is likely over feeding candida, contributing to more hunger... I think the CS is helping keep candida in check. Never the less, due to allergies, I wake up feeling famished and find myself munching on junk all day long. (Still no sinus infections despite a couple bad colds this year. CS has diverted them! I used to get SI 3 or a4 times a year!) Do you have any idea what's going on here if an enzyme supplement can help with that? Sincerely, Nancy -Original Message- From: Susan M. Yensen syen...@clearwater.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, April 30, 1998 4:15 AM Subject: Re: insight/herx Susan, Tell me some more about these digestive enzymes that you take. I haven't seen a thing about them cleaning out toxins and such and would be interested to read anything that you could direct me toward. Are they Papaya, Bromelain, and the like? I didn't quite follow the part about the candida infections. Does the enzyme combat candida infection? I have a friend that has a systemic candida infection and he can't seem to beat it. I would appreciate any info that you could provide. Vern Vern, I had the article and sent it with a friend so she would understand what I am saying to her. It has a good bibliogralphy for you. I will see if I can get it back from her and post it for you. Megazymes by Enzymatic tharapy are good for me b/c I can tolerate them whereas others I cannot that is why I say this brand. It is Pancreatic enzymes (10X) 325 mg (full strength undiluted and uncut) Units of activity* Protease 96,580 Amylase 98,780 Lip[ase 24,496 Trypsin75 mg papain 50mg bromelain (1.200 M.C.U.) 50 mg amylase 10 mg lipase 10 mg lysozyme 100 mg chymotrypsin 2mg About Candida, you can eradicate it with CS done slowly and carefully according to your health state. WHen a single celled organism, or parasite or the spirochete of which we read so much dies, it's death releases a toxin that was inside the organism heretofor. So when [people get treated for Candida and are not properlu educated about the Jarisch Herxheiomer reaction--the body'e reaction to the toxin released at the death of the organism, oftentimes they feel worse and stop taking the medication and may say they are allergic or whatever b/c we don't get the same thing painfiul reactions with antibiotic therapy for common micro organisms. As a matter of fact many doctors don't understand this. Funguses are very different creatures docs in 3rd world countries are the best at recognizing these things and treating them. Although we are catching up. Funguses have the ability to change forms according to their replication cycle and unless you are in this cycle they will not be found in the blood, they can be budding yeast which looks like cottage cheese or mycelia which can travel from organ to organ with out the use of the vascular system. When you are in this replication cycle you feel worse and crave sweets or fermented things. The yeast need more carbohydrate to live. Yeast Canndida and monilia are basically the same for the purpose of this post. What the enzyme does ON AN EMPTY STOMACH is get readily absorbed into the bloodstream and eat up 'the toxins released by the dying fungi or spirochete. It is a good add on for treatment of Candida but will not kill candida. It will alleviate the pain as do the other things I delineated in a previous post. Now, the article had several subtitles and said in effect that in studies done--double blind no less that it has been found that they relieve the pain of inflammation better that then ensaids so commonly prescribed which are poison to me. They also discovered a use for these in autoimmune disease like MS and so forth is that they discovereed that the enzymes will also eliminate circulating immune complexes. this is important for peopole like me for instance b/c the immune complexes I have are anti myelin ones and attack the lining of the nerves and it is painful process. Also good in allergies for precisely the same thing they will digest allergens, reduce swelling (anti inflammation effect) tThe anti inflammation effect is accomplished as the enzymes soften and digest the fibrin and other substance and catecholamines in the infalammatory reaction, including arachidonic acid which is the culprit that causes pain. So It may be a while before I can get that bibliography up b/c I can't leave the mountain just now and I will have to get her to bring it to me. These also aid in digestion taken with food. Many people have malabsorption problems once things are set into motion of
Re: re-garding collodial silver, copper,?
Regarding purity of silver in coins, I couldn't resist sharing one of my dad's favorite lines-- my father is a preacher in what's left of his free time. Rat poison is 98% pure food. It's the 2% you have to watch out for! He uses this line in reference to warning of false teachings, which is the most emphasized theme of the New Testament, and regarding fanciful promises politicians and salespeople make, etc. I'm also thinking of the funny, old Ritz cracker commercial-- Looks the same. Got the same # of holes! (Another voice...) Just don't taste the same. Michael is right. Why mess around with unknowns? Let silver coins be silver coins. Silver wire is not expensive and easy to get. That's the way to go, unless you have your own chem lab to test everything. Nancy B. -Original Message- From: It's not me rocke...@micron.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Thursday, April 30, 1998 3:03 AM Subject: Re: re-garding collodial silver, copper,? I sure would not try this unless I was in a pinch. . is a measure of silvers purity, but 90 percent silver coinage tells you little about the 10% that isn't silver. Remember, things that might be acceptable in a coin, may not be healthy in your body. Coins are cast with no particular attention given to the fact that someone may ingest them. :-) Think along the lines of surgical or food grade quality when putting things in your body. If someone gave you a pill that they said was 90% vitamin C, wouldn't you want to know what the other 10% was before you took the pill. I think natural and folk medicine is great, but be wary, there is a line that is crossed that just doesn't make good sense (at least to me). Be careful of the more is better thinking. Colloidal silver is fine and appears to have at least some antidotal and research evidence to support it's use. All these other colloids, I am just not sure about. Somebody, somewhere will start selling colloidal uranium, and the bad thing is that people will beat a path to his/her door to buy it. -Original Message- From: Michael C Slivinski sunbr...@mymail.net To: silver-list@eskimo.com silver-list@eskimo.com Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 8:16 PM Subject: re-garding collodial silver, copper,? Just for some stimulation of thoughts here, in perception magazine they had 2 articles on making your own cs, the author did mention using pure 999 silver, but also mentioned one could try using silver coins which are 90 % pure silver and copper and one other metal (not nickle) and said copper is a benifit also. So wondering if using silver coins might not be good to have with these other items being made. they also made mention that some collodial mineral water had in it's list of minerals arsenic, and commented it interesting to have a poison mineral there and mentioned one other type of mineral that is known as a poison but in collodial form might not be harmful in small ppm. maybe it might be positive. Just thoughts mike slivinski -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the subject: line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com List maintainer: Mike Devour mdev...@id.net
