Re: CSRe: CSspectrographs of CS
On 9/13/2011 10:16 PM, Mike Monett wrote: Re: CSspectrographs of CS I am astonished to find anyone can get down to 0.3uS. The best I have seen is 0.5uS, and that is from the local Walmart. I use high powered rare earth magnets in the double distillation process. How does that work. There are no ions in distillation, therefore nothing for the magnets to exert a force against. Actually there are ions in pure water. Water splits into H+ and OH- spontaneously, that is the basis for pH measurements. In a solution pH approximates but is not equal to p[H], the negative logarithm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm (base 10) of the molar concentration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molar_concentration of dissolved hydronium ions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydronium_ion (H_3 O^+ ). pH is defined as a negative decimal logarithm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm of the hydrogen ion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_ion activity in a solution.^[15] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH#cite_note-14 For pure water that works out to be 10^-7 moles of ions per liter. Using Avogadro constant, we find that one liter of pure water contains 6.02214179(30)×10^23 * 10-7 or approximately 6*10^16 ion pairs per liter. Although percentage wise that is not much, that is still 120,000,000,000,000,000 ions per liter. Marshall
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
David AuBuchon aubuchon.da...@gmail.com wrote: The more I hear about in vivo views, the less I know! Also very interested in your generator Mike. I have suspected that inadequate concentration of ions in the blood is the main issue when people like me peak in improvements with CS. I definitely want to try your solution out. So is particle size the main factor with nebulizer effectiveness? So Jason, you would say that ultrasonic nebulizers give the best particle sizes? Any thoughts on how they compare to Brooks nebulizer? I also have infected lungs that do not respond to all sorts of nebulized silver products with a cheap edge nebulizer. Thanks, ~David Hi David, I wrote an article for the Lyme Strategies called Silver In the Blood. In it I tried to show the ion concentration in the blood is far too low to have any effect on pathogens, and the main instrument in healing is the immune system. I will be expanding on this topic in the SilverCell forum, so there will be plenty of new information to work with. In the meantime, I need to alert you to the problems with nebulizers. As a water droplet shrinks, the silver and hydroxide ions are forced closer together. And the smaller the droplet, the faster it shrinks. At some point, the ions combine to form silver hydroxide, which is inert, insoluble, and has no antibacterial qualities. This gets distributed deep inside your lungs, and could have the same effect as asbestos in harming the lungs. I have received permission from tha author of an excellent web article on nebulizing. He has managed to take high speed images of particles evaporating, and has plotted the expected lifetime vs particle size. The result is the particles evaporate in milliseconds for the typical droplet size used in nebulizing cs. This means you are depositing silver hydroxide in your lungs, and not silver ions. The main benefit from nebulizing is the sublingual absorption that occurs as the cs fog is deposited on the mucous membranes. We take advantage of that effect in the SilverCell process, with uses sublingual absorption as the main method of getting access to the silver ions. It is extremely effective when you have a high enough ion concentration to work with. Best Regards, Mike Monett SilverCell -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS [GishPuppy]
Hi Mike: I am astonished to find anyone can get down to 0.3uS. The best I have seen is 0.5uS, and that is from the local Walmart. I use high powered rare earth magnets in the double distillation process. However, such extreme purity is simply not desirable or needed for the typical single mom. Agreed. However, none of us use this anymore. For LVDC,the thing we are worried about is CO2, which forms carbonic acid. This will quickly raise your 0.3uS to 1.5uS or so. Having an actual closed production system takes care of this problem, although again not very necessary for a simple generator. Silver does not oxidize. Search google for silver does not oxidize, and you will get over 8,000 hits. Here are some: Here we'll have to agree to disagree for the moment. The point is rather mute anyway. For example: The equilibrium electrode potential of silver is +0.799 V. This value is only 0.01 V more negative than the equilibrium potential of an oxygen electrode in natural environments. Then by definition silver is not regarded as a noble metal, because it can still be thermodynamically oxidised by atmospheric oxygen at normal temperatures. At standard temperatures and pressures (STP), the thermodynamical equilibrium of 4 Ag + O2 -- 2 AgO -from the ESA Journal, 1989 I can also show you some journal publications with TEM's of silver oxide configurations which must have occured with some relatively simple reactions. I've never questioned my common understanding of the oxidation process involving silver, as I use ozone and activated oxygen with silver all of the time. I can pretty much prove by physical evidence some very simple reactions. That said, I'll take a look your alternate viewpoint when I get the chance... I always question everything, and I love being proved wrong... there's a big thrill in improving the accuracy and depth perception of knowledge. However, I don't see that the point is that relative to anything regarding a basic generator, anyway. The electrode configuration does affect the performance. I hope to clarify this soon when I get the SilverCell web page up and running. That might be one of your bigger issues. If people purchase standard silver electrodes from somewhere like ccsilver.com , they may not be able to bend them into shape successfully without tearing them up with pliars or some such tool. Also, silver particles are not converted into silver chloride. I don't believe that I stated that they were. Silver ions are leached off by acids, whereby they are then converted into compounds ( in reference to Dr. Bart Flick's work). Frank is dead wrong in this. Ions kill pathogens in vitro. Particles do not. As I stated in an earlier email, work done at UCLA demonstrated conclusively that only the electromagnetic information is required to kill pathogens. I noted that particles in the colloidal spectrum have unique properties not shared by simple ion arrangements. Metallic silver can very easily survive the digestive tract. In fact, you may not be aware fo this, but some colloidal-size particles exhibit enzyme-like activities in the body. However, again, I don't see this as very important to the work at hand. I wholeheartedly agree that Frank is very wrong in some of his suppositions. Internally, something completely different happens. With sublingual absorption, the amount of silver in the blood is far to low to have any effect on pathogens. We need to study this further, since it definitely involves the human immune system Even small concentrations of silver ions contain the electromagetic information of silver. I'm not sure anyone understands from a practical level how oligodynamics work biologically. As far as anyone really knows, the effect could simply be a catylst. Nebulization is my favorite method of administration, although I am aware that there are some MD's out there who rely soley upon sublingual adsorption. High ionic is the only way to go. Unfortunately, most people here have no way to see this for themselves since all the current cs generators have too many design flaws to reach the needed concentration. Aside from experience with the differences in taste, the salt solution is an elegant solution. But the solution has been under our fingers since the 3 nines was originally invented. All it takes is a slight rearrangement of the design, and we can improve the ion concentration by a factor of ten! I would really like to see this in a closed system some day, with the ambient air variables removed. It would be fascinating. You will truly be amazed when you see how simple the SilverCell process is. This is the most significant breakthrough in colloidal silver generators since the original 3 nines, and I am hopeful it will have beneficial effects for those suffering from serious
Re: CSspectrographs of CS [GishPuppy]
Any success in creating a very simple, very low-cost system would be of great value worldwide, especially if the current high price of sliver (probably speculative) passes away and the metal goes back to under ten dollars per ounce. SOTA Instruments once sold a relatively low-cost pulser/generator but discontinued it due to some problems with the sealed electronic enclosure. Even this device was about 50 dollars, pricing it out of the market of people who need it most, some of whom live in a dollar or two per day. Mike's idea of putting everything in the public domain is wonderful, because it would enable volunteer groups in many countries to assemble inexpensive units to sell at costs local people in many countries could handle. Because many are in the global south, as they say, a cheap solar chip could supplement or replace the 9V battery. This has great potential. Some researchers have made inexpensive solar still designs, and if links to these were published along with the other information, it would be helpful. On 2011/09/14, at 8:53, Jason R Eaton wrote: Hi Mike: I am astonished to find anyone can get down to 0.3uS. The best I have seen is 0.5uS, and that is from the local Walmart. I use high powered rare earth magnets in the double distillation process. However, such extreme purity is simply not desirable or needed for the typical single mom. Agreed. However, none of us use this anymore. For LVDC,the thing we are worried about is CO2, which forms carbonic acid. This will quickly raise your 0.3uS to 1.5uS or so. Having an actual closed production system takes care of this problem, although again not very necessary for a simple generator. Silver does not oxidize. Search google for silver does not oxidize, and you will get over 8,000 hits. Here are some: Here we'll have to agree to disagree for the moment. The point is rather mute anyway. For example: The equilibrium electrode potential of silver is +0.799 V. This value is only 0.01 V more negative than the equilibrium potential of an oxygen electrode in natural environments. Then by definition silver is not regarded as a noble metal, because it can still be thermodynamically oxidised by atmospheric oxygen at normal temperatures. At standard temperatures and pressures (STP), the thermodynamical equilibrium of 4 Ag + O2 -- 2 AgO -from the ESA Journal, 1989 I can also show you some journal publications with TEM's of silver oxide configurations which must have occured with some relatively simple reactions. I've never questioned my common understanding of the oxidation process involving silver, as I use ozone and activated oxygen with silver all of the time. I can pretty much prove by physical evidence some very simple reactions. That said, I'll take a look your alternate viewpoint when I get the chance... I always question everything, and I love being proved wrong... there's a big thrill in improving the accuracy and depth perception of knowledge. However, I don't see that the point is that relative to anything regarding a basic generator, anyway. The electrode configuration does affect the performance. I hope to clarify this soon when I get the SilverCell web page up and running. That might be one of your bigger issues. If people purchase standard silver electrodes from somewhere like ccsilver.com , they may not be able to bend them into shape successfully without tearing them up with pliars or some such tool. Also, silver particles are not converted into silver chloride. I don't believe that I stated that they were. Silver ions are leached off by acids, whereby they are then converted into compounds ( in reference to Dr. Bart Flick's work). Frank is dead wrong in this. Ions kill pathogens in vitro. Particles do not. As I stated in an earlier email, work done at UCLA demonstrated conclusively that only the electromagnetic information is required to kill pathogens. I noted that particles in the colloidal spectrum have unique properties not shared by simple ion arrangements. Metallic silver can very easily survive the digestive tract. In fact, you may not be aware fo this, but some colloidal-size particles exhibit enzyme-like activities in the body. However, again, I don't see this as very important to the work at hand. I wholeheartedly agree that Frank is very wrong in some of his suppositions. Internally, something completely different happens. With sublingual absorption, the amount of silver in the blood is far to low to have any effect on pathogens. We need to study this further, since it definitely involves the human immune system Even small concentrations of silver ions contain the electromagetic information of silver. I'm not sure anyone understands from a practical level how oligodynamics work biologically. As far as anyone really
Re: CSspectrographs of CS [GishPuppy]
Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@nakamura-u.ac.jp wrote: Any success in creating a very simple, very low-cost system would be of great value worldwide, especially if the current high price of sliver (probably speculative) passes away and the metal goes back to under ten dollars per ounce. SOTA Instruments once sold a relatively low-cost pulser/generator but discontinued it due to some problems with the sealed electronic enclosure. Even this device was about 50 dollars, pricing it out of the market of people who need it most, some of whom live in a dollar or two per day. Mike's idea of putting everything in the public domain is wonderful, because it would enable volunteer groups in many countries to assemble inexpensive units to sell at costs local people in many countries could handle. Because many are in the global south, as they say, a cheap solar chip could supplement or replace the 9V battery. This has great potential. Some researchers have made inexpensive solar still designs, and if links to these were published along with the other information, it would be helpful. Hi Jonathan, Good to hear from you again! One significant advantage of the SilverCell process is it uses a minimum of the consumables. The silver electrodes are short length of 12 ga 0.999 fine silver, and they will last a long time. Due to the use of sublingual absorption, only a small amount of cs is used for each dose. Instead of 250ml, only about 50 ml is used. The cs is not ingested, but is expelled after about 12 minutes. So the requirement for distilled water is only 20% of the amount needed in conventional cs systems. The current requirement is very low. I calculate that a 9 Volt alkaline should last for about 110 brews of 400ml each. This works out to around 2 years for one person, and it breaks down to a very small cost per dose. Also, the SilverCell can use discarded batteries that are too weak to drive boom boxes. There is a plentiful supply of these, so there should be no problem getting batteries to make cs. The main problem will be getting good quality distilled water. Perhaps we could develop a solar still that might deliver a high enough quality to work. After all, what does a distiller need? Heat. What does the sun give? Heat. Maybe a simple mirror to focus the energy, and some low leaching materials to conduct the water and vapor as required. If you have any information on people who may have already done this, please let me know. Best Regards, Mike Monett SilverCell -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Greetings, all: Hi David, I wrote an article for the Lyme Strategies called Silver In the Blood. In it I tried to show the ion concentration in the blood is far too low to have any effect on pathogens, and the main instrument in healing is the immune system. I will be expanding on this topic in the SilverCell forum, so there will be plenty of new information to work with. In the meantime, I need to alert you to the problems with nebulizers. As a water droplet shrinks, the silver and hydroxide ions are forced closer together. And the smaller the droplet, the faster it shrinks. At some point, the ions combine to form silver hydroxide, which is inert, insoluble, and has no antibacterial qualities. This gets distributed deep inside your lungs, and could have the same effect as asbestos in harming the lungs. This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in quite awhile. As an individual with over ten years of experience with nebulization, this type of fear-mongering is unbecoming of true intelligence. I can introduce you to individuals with terminal infectous conditions of the blood, lungs and organs who used CS nebulization to effect a permanent cure it's effective with both humans and animals. Asbestos is carcinogenic, and the particle characteristics prevent it from being removed from lung tissue. I can also introduce you to individuals who have breathed in so much silver in an industrialized setting, that their whole upper body turned black.The lungs, however, are in perfect shape (after twenty some years). Furthermore, studies have been done demonstrating that silver accumulation in lung tissue is not present as long as the silver particle is less than 15 nanometers in diameter. People with massive silver exposure in lung tissues don't even develop conditions similiar to silicosis, let alone asbestos. Silver is not as effective with Lyme disease as some would hope, and it's completely due to concentration levels. Here is a quote from a Lyme sufferer: There can also be some unintended consequences: While on IV Colloidal Silver, after my initial herxing, I started feeling better...until one day, I got slammed with Babesia symptoms. Apparently, the artemisinin I'd been on the year before, which had reduced my Babesia microti down to non-infective levels, did not eradicate it. Some other organism or two or three were helping my body keep down the Babesia population left after I went off the artemisin, organisms that were killed off by the silver, resulting in a major Babesia population. Fortunately, my physician had just returned from a Lyme conferenced, wherein he learned that Babesia is far more prevalent in the Lyme patient population (40% or more), and is far more difficult to get rid of, has a cyst form requiring the addition of a third antibiotic, and the tests are, like tests for Borrelia burgdorferi, returning high rates of false negatives because acute illness happens at ratios far less than the test sensitivity levels. [Note that there are tests for only two of the 13 known Babesia species, so people infected with the other 11 species will never test positive, no matter how sick they are.) Lyme is more complicated than just saying higher concentration of silver will eradicate it. It's one of those infections that requires a great deal of knowledge and concerted effort to address, especially in advanced stages. I doubt very seriously that silver would have any impact on the cystic stage of Lyme, whicih is why it may be a good aid, but not a primary treatment modality. As a friend recently reminded me, though, if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail! I don't often like to comment on Lyme disease, because that one should really be handled by people specializing in it with a medical background as well as a natural/alternative background. However, because there is so much confusion, bad information, and down right imaginative suppositions going around, a Lyme sufferer really needs to take a multi-pronged approach to the whole problem. Regardless of how one decides to use silver in a protocol, spirochetes travel to tissues and areas in the body that it is not likely silver will have a great impact on. However, in some of its active stages, and as it operates in the active metabolism, silver use can greatly help knock the pathogen counts down, which obviously helps the immune system. Titration is one of the biggest issues; bioactive silver in any form, and by any philosphy, doesn't have a long activity life in a biological system (like the human body). At extremely low concentrations, silver only inhibits spirochetes' growth cycle. There are therapies far more effective at dealing with the cystic stage of lyme and biofilm... but they are not that easy to use by someone without experience (which is why a good alt med practitioner
Re: CSspectrographs of CS [GishPuppy]
Thanks, Mike. This is all really interesting. Through Internet correspondence I know a researcher named Dr. Steven E. Jones, formerly a university physics professor. (He lost his employment due to his controversial research pertaining to the physics and chemistry of 11 September, 2001.) Dr. Jones has many interests, one of which is a low-cost solar stove he developed with his university students. Here's one link. There are others: http://peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Steven_E._Jones_Solar_Funnel_for_Cooking I studied his design once, and it seemed to me that even people in poor countries could make these at minimal cost. I mentioned the idea of using the stove as a still for making distilled water for silver generators. (I believe his former university has several researchers working in that area.) These stoves could certainly be shared by many members of a community, given the low water requirements of your design. Dr. Jone's design is all public domain, as is other recent work on new electronic circuits that reportedly drain very, very little energy from batteries -- a claim that is certain to be challenged, and the basis of which he admittedly does NOT understand. Everything about the circuit is disclosed on one of his websites -- I think he's on YouTube also -- for the same reasons you're doing public disclosure -- to prevent IP problems and keep the technology available to everyone. There are a number of other solar stoves, of course, but Jone's looks really simple and fairly safe. (I saw a video of a mirror-based solar concentrator built by some young guy who was cutting thick boards in half with it. That could boil water fast, but also take off body parts!) Thanks again for your work. Hope this helps. On 2011/09/14, at 10:06, Mike Monett wrote: Jonathan B. Britten jbrit...@nakamura-u.ac.jp wrote: Any success in creating a very simple, very low-cost system would be of great value worldwide, especially if the current high price of sliver (probably speculative) passes away and the metal goes back to under ten dollars per ounce. SOTA Instruments once sold a relatively low-cost pulser/generator but discontinued it due to some problems with the sealed electronic enclosure. Even this device was about 50 dollars, pricing it out of the market of people who need it most, some of whom live in a dollar or two per day. Mike's idea of putting everything in the public domain is wonderful, because it would enable volunteer groups in many countries to assemble inexpensive units to sell at costs local people in many countries could handle. Because many are in the global south, as they say, a cheap solar chip could supplement or replace the 9V battery. This has great potential. Some researchers have made inexpensive solar still designs, and if links to these were published along with the other information, it would be helpful. Hi Jonathan, Good to hear from you again! One significant advantage of the SilverCell process is it uses a minimum of the consumables. The silver electrodes are short length of 12 ga 0.999 fine silver, and they will last a long time. Due to the use of sublingual absorption, only a small amount of cs is used for each dose. Instead of 250ml, only about 50 ml is used. The cs is not ingested, but is expelled after about 12 minutes. So the requirement for distilled water is only 20% of the amount needed in conventional cs systems. The current requirement is very low. I calculate that a 9 Volt alkaline should last for about 110 brews of 400ml each. This works out to around 2 years for one person, and it breaks down to a very small cost per dose. Also, the SilverCell can use discarded batteries that are too weak to drive boom boxes. There is a plentiful supply of these, so there should be no problem getting batteries to make cs. The main problem will be getting good quality distilled water. Perhaps we could develop a solar still that might deliver a high enough quality to work. After all, what does a distiller need? Heat. What does the sun give? Heat. Maybe a simple mirror to focus the energy, and some low leaching materials to conduct the water and vapor as required. If you have any information on people who may have already done this, please let me know. Best Regards, Mike Monett SilverCell -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS [GishPuppy]
Jason wrote: Even small concentrations of silver ions contain the electromagetic Information of silver. I'm not sure anyone understands from a practical Level how oligodynamics work biologically. As far as anyone really knows, The effect could simply be a catylst. Jason, does this mean if a person could get the figures for the frequency of the silver that this would be as good as the electromagnetic information from the silver--or do you think it's still necessary to have actual, physical ions present? Samala, Renee
Re: CSspectrographs of CS [GishPuppy]
Hi Renee: In theory, yes. In practice, maintaining the purity of any signal is problematic. It's easy to both measure and maintain any energy signal from a device through a chamber and into a test tube. It's way beyond my technical expertise to try and figure out how this could be done. Kind Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: gaiac...@gmail.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 18:27 Subject: Re: CSspectrographs of CS [GishPuppy] Jason wrote: Even small concentrations of silver ions contain the electromagetic Information of silver. I'm not sure anyone understands from a practical Level how oligodynamics work biologically. As far as anyone really knows, The effect could simply be a catylst. Jason, does this mean if a person could get the figures for the frequency of the silver that this would be as good as the electromagnetic information from the silver--or do you think it's still necessary to have actual, physical ions present? Samala, Renee
Re: CSspectrographs of CS [GishPuppy]
Hey Jason. Well, it seems that on another list they've been having good results using a red pointing laser shown through a glass tube containing the substance, onto the body. This imparts the information of the substance INTO the body. All very impressive. If we could get a true grasp on frequencies we'd all be able to do without having to ingest substances, but as you say--it's very tricky. Now it depends on the practitioner--how good he/she is. Still, it s a fascinating subject. Samala, Renee ---Original Message--- In theory, yes. In practice, maintaining the purity of any signal is problematic. It's easy to both measure and maintain any energy signal from a device through a chamber and into a test tube. It's way beyond my technical expertise to try and figure out how this could be done.
CSRe: CSspectrographs of CS
Re: CSspectrographs of CS I am astonished to find anyone can get down to 0.3uS. The best I have seen is 0.5uS, and that is from the local Walmart. I use high powered rare earth magnets in the double distillation process. How does that work. There are no ions in distillation, therefore nothing for the magnets to exert a force against. I see no need for magnets. Simple double or triple distillation is all that is needed to reach those levels. But they are simply not needed in a well-designed cs process, like the SilverCell process. However, none of us use this anymore. For LVDC,the thing we are worried about is CO2, which forms carbonic acid. This will quickly raise your 0.3uS to 1.5uS or so. Having an actual closed production system takes care of this problem, although again not very necessary for a simple generator. A closed system will have no effect on the electrolysis reactions at the anode and cathode. They are under water and have no connection with the properties above the surface of the water. Silver does not oxidize. Search google for silver does not oxidize, and you will get over 8,000 hits. Here are some: Here we'll have to agree to disagree for the moment. The point is rather mute anyway. For example: The equilibrium electrode potential of silver is +0.799 V. This value is only 0.01 V more negative than the equilibrium potential of an oxygen electrode in natural environments. Then by definition silver is not regarded as a noble metal, because it can still be thermodynamically oxidised by atmospheric oxygen at normal temperatures. At standard temperatures and pressures (STP), the thermodynamical equilibrium of 4 Ag + O2 - 2 AgO -from the ESA Journal, 1989 Is this your equation, 4 Ag + O2 -- 2 AgO ? You need to get a different reference. That equation is not balanced. I really need to teach you a small amount of basic chemistry. I plan on doing that in my Yahoo forum. Also, silver oxide is Ag2O, not AgO I can also show you some journal publications with TEM's of silver oxide configurations which must have occured with some relatively simple reactions. Frank debunked TEM's long ago. How about 2001? CSthe last on TEM images Frank Key Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:38:57 -0800 TEM observation of non-ionic solutions are widely accepted. However, when highly ionic solutions are the subject of observation, compound formation so alters the observation that the results are meaningless (in my opinion). I have explained why the formation of compounds during the sample preparation becomes significant. My explanations and rational are clearly stated on my web site in the FAQ and Definition of Terms as they have been in these list postings. Clearly you reject this because of your vested interest in your TEM. I feel that further discussion on this subject is beating a dead horse. Let the readers who are interested weigh the evidence and decide for them selves. frank key http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list(at)eskimo.com/msg35685.html In this case, he is absolutely correct. The particles that show up in TEM images are created when the solution is dried. They do not exist in the original solution. I've never questioned my common understanding of the oxidation process involving silver, as I use ozone and activated oxygen with silver all of the time. I can pretty much prove by physical evidence some very simple reactions. There is nothing you can do to the atmosphere above the solution that will affect the reactions in the Nernst Diffusion layer next to the electrodes. They are under water and completely isolated, the same as a submarine is not affected by hurricanes when it is submerged. That said, I'll take a look your alternate viewpoint when I get the chance... I always question everything, and I love being proved wrong. I have no interest or value in proving anyone wrong. What I seek is usable, workable solutions that can take me to the next step in understanding what is going on in a process. there's a big thrill in improving the accuracy and depth perception of knowledge. However, I don't see that the point is that relative to anything regarding a basic generator, anyway. In these things, every detail counts. A single error can prove that a very elegant theory is completely wrong. So we must pay attention to every detail and prove it is correct. Otherwise we start to get sloppy, like some members of this forum, and can only pray that everything will come out right. Prayer does not work
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Jason R Eaton ja...@eytonsearth.org wrote: [...] At some point, the ions combine to form silver hydroxide, which is inert, insoluble, and has no antibacterial qualities. This gets distributed deep inside your lungs, and could have the same effect as asbestos in harming the lungs. This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in quite awhile. As an individual with over ten years of experience with nebulization, this type of fear-mongering is unbecoming of true intelligence. [...] Your experience would mean more if you had some basic chemistry knowledge to tell the difference between junk science and valuable information. You cannot tell what silver hydroxide will do to tissues in the long term. You have no knowledge or experience to say. The reason asbestos is so deadly is the white blood cells cannot digest them like they can other material they find in the body. They kill pathogens by encasing them in vacules, and administering H2O2 and other chemicals to kill the pathogen. However, by itself, H2O2 has no effect on AgOH. So the white blood cells cannot get rid of it. It stays around, and who knows what irritation it causes to the tissue? You certainly don't know. So I would not be so confident as you seem to be. The main benefit from nebulizing is the sublingual absorption that occurs as the cs fog is deposited on the mucous membranes. What I like about sublingual adsorption is the activity of metalloproteins in the adsorption process. This is certainly invaluable. That sublingual adsorption is even close to as effective as nebulization defies the practical experience many, many individuals, including a few I know very personally who would now be dead if they had continued doing it. I believe you were working with 10 ppm or so. That is of no use in sublingual absorption. As I have pointed out, you can drink weak cs all day long and it may have little or no effect. But when you increase the ion concentration to 20 uS, all it takes is one mouthful for 12 minutes to kill the most virulent viruses. I think it would be extremely important to find out why this happens. Under their doctors strict orders, they were only allowed to do sublingual adsorption. However, once the individual spent the last $30,000 of the house they sold for medical bills, and hence ran out of money, the doctor declined to offer further services. The individual then elected to follow more prudent guidance. That is false. Doctors have absolutely no clue about cs, and it is not recognized by the FDA. So they simply cannot order anyone to use it or not. Again, that has nothing to do with the topic. SilverCell is far more concentrated than anything you have ever come across. As I have documented, swallowing less concentrated cs has no effect on the pathogens we were experiencing. Finding a way to make much stronger cs solved the problem. Now, instead of attacking me and claiming perfect knowledge of all things, maybe we should work together and find out why concentrated silver ions works so well in the body, and why weak silver ion solutions have little or no effect. Sublingual adsorption is fantastic, but I would strongly urge individuals to do extensive personal investigation and research, and not rely on **anyone's** opinions. I assure you, experimenting with EIS via a nebulizer is not a dangerous proposition. Draw your own conclusions. I suggest upgrading the generator to SilverCell performance. Then do your evaluation. ~Jason Mike Monett SilverCell -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
On 9/13/2011 11:06 PM, Mike Monett wrote: Jason R Eatonja...@eytonsearth.org wrote: [...] At some point, the ions combine to form silver hydroxide, which is inert, insoluble, and has no antibacterial qualities. This gets distributed deep inside your lungs, and could have the same effect as asbestos in harming the lungs. This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read in quite awhile. As an individual with over ten years of experience with nebulization, this type of fear-mongering is unbecoming of true intelligence. [...] Your experience would mean more if you had some basic chemistry knowledge to tell the difference between junk science and valuable information. You cannot tell what silver hydroxide will do to tissues in the long term. You have no knowledge or experience to say. I do have a chemistry background, and have studied the different forms of ionic silver extensively. Ionic silver is a combination of silver oxide and silver hydroxide. They each have a solubility of approximately 13 ppm at room temperature, slightly higher at body temperature. Ionic silver does not turn into silver hydroxide, it is that to start with. If you start with either one in water, you will end up with a combination of the two after it dissolves. The reaction is: Ag2O + H2O = 2Ag(OH)2 Silver hydroxide does not exist in a non-ionic form. If you take silver hydroxide solution and let the water evaporate, what will remain will be silver oxide. The reason asbestos is so deadly is the white blood cells cannot digest them like they can other material they find in the body. They kill pathogens by encasing them in vacules, and administering H2O2 and other chemicals to kill the pathogen. I am not sure who they is. The lungs oxidize or reduce (organic) particles in the lungs with H2O2, forming something soluble which can then be absorbed into the lung tissue. However, by itself, H2O2 has no effect on AgOH. That is not true at all. H2O2 plu Ag(OH)2 (Ag tends to have a valence of two, thus HO which has a valence of one must be doubled up), reacts with H2O2 quite readily. But for Silver Hydroxide, it is not necessary since silver hydroxide has solubility of around 13 ppm anyway. The reaction of hydrogen peroxide and silver hydroxide I have posted here a number of times is: 2Ag(OH) + H2O2 = 2Ag + 2H2O + O2 yielding a silver particle typically made up of two atoms of silver which is easily absorbed by the lung tissue. But you also have the reverse reaction: 2Ag + H2O2 = 2AgO + H2O These are the reactions that occur if you add a few drops of H2O2 to EIS, something many of us have been doing for years. So the white blood cells cannot get rid of it. It stays around, and who knows what irritation it causes to the tissue? You certainly don't know. Before reacting with any H2O2 it is soluble, so why would it stay around? Even if it did react with H2O2, colloidal silver is easily absorbed into tissues, that is how taking it subliminally works. So I would not be so confident as you seem to be. The main benefit from nebulizing is the sublingual absorption that occurs as the cs fog is deposited on the mucous membranes. That as well as getting to any pathogens in the lungs directly, whereas they might not be exposed to CS that is simply in the blood. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Jason R Eaton ja...@eytonsearth.org wrote: Hi Renee: In theory, yes. In practice, maintaining the purity of any signal is problematic. It's easy to both measure and maintain any energy signal from a device through a chamber and into a test tube. It's way beyond my technical expertise to try and figure out how this could be done. Kind Regards, Jason Jason, I'll simplify things for you. The only radiation a substance can emit is the thermal radiation from the temperature of the substance. This is how the infrared thermometers that you stick in your ear work. They are similar to the old exposure meters you used to use to take photographs, when you had to set the aperture and speed. But these ones detect the difference between the radiation absorbed by a thermocouple exposed to your ear, and another identical thermocouple that is shielded from the thermal energy. The thermocouples are well understood. The real magic is to develop op amps with a low enough offset voltage to measure the small differences, and run them off battery power. From an electronic engineer's point of view, the real magic is the skill of the designer who can package this into a small device and sell it for peanuts. And still make it far more accurate than any mercury thermometer on the market. As far as channeling the energy, and all the other nice buzzwords involved in most of these web scams, the less you know, the more it will cost you to find out you have been taken. Best Regards, Mike Monett SilverCell -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi Mike: You've actually been quite personally insulting, and so I'm done with arguing. You ignore ascertations with deflections, and are not communicating in good faith. The last thing I'm going to say: You've said: Doctors have absolutely no clue about cs, and it is not recognized by the FDA. So they simply cannot order anyone to use it or not. ...basically calling me a liar, which I do not appreciate. Best of luck with your project. Kind Regards, Jason From: Mike Monett armor@gishpuppy.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2011 20:06 Subject: Re: CSspectrographs of CS Jason R Eaton ja...@eytonsearth.org wrote: Your experience would mean more if you had some basic chemistry knowledge to tell the difference between junk science and valuable information. You cannot tell what silver hydroxide will do to tissues in the long term. You have no knowledge or experience to say. -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSspectrographs of CS
From my experience, Ph is high immediately upon cessation of the brewing
process {LVDC home produced} and over time it returns to base Ph.
I haven't actually timed it as all I wanted to know was the Ph level of my two
samples I had tested at the time.
If I thought those litmus strips were worth anything I would have used some in
the past, but I don't think they amount to much for this purpose.
N.
From: ja...@eytonsearth.org
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 18:27:19 -0700
Greetings,
I only use EIS with a pH very close to neutral. Some manufacturing methods
create
acidic CS; at best, one is simply delivering small amounts of silver nitrate
into the body.
~Jason
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi Neville:
You're right... You really need to use a digital meter.
~Jason
- Original Message -
From: Neville Munn
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 23:00
Subject: RE: CSspectrographs of CS
From my experience, Ph is high immediately upon cessation of the brewing
process {LVDC home produced} and over time it returns to base Ph.
I haven't actually timed it as all I wanted to know was the Ph level of my
two samples I had tested at the time.
If I thought those litmus strips were worth anything I would have used some
in the past, but I don't think they amount to much for this purpose.
N.
From: ja...@eytonsearth.org
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 18:27:19 -0700
Greetings,
I only use EIS with a pH very close to neutral. Some manufacturing methods
create
acidic CS; at best, one is simply delivering small amounts of silver
nitrate
into the body.
~Jason
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi Mike: I'm very interested in your work; please send me a link to your group when you get the chance. I'm actually not confused, though. There are other variables in the production process, although perhaps some would consider the issue splitting hairs. The most irritating variable is distilled water quality. While this does not necessarily directly impact the electrolysis process, indirectly in makes a big difference. I can only get the best results when I double-distill water myself, which I usually don't have time to do. When I measure distilled water that I purchase, and I see the ph is above 8.0, and the purity level far above my ideal 0.3 uS, I know that my end product will not be as good as it could be. Second, the longer distilled water sits in open air, the more nitrogen it will pull from the air; the more energy you apply to the process, the more nitrogen is pulled into the water. With HVAC, this can make a huge difference, but with LVDC, it only seems to be a minor difference. Furthermore, you can get silver oxides due to the decay at the silver electrodes. Poor electrode configurations are probably the biggest offenders. Also, silver particles are not converted into silver chloride. The only thing they are subject to (relative to our topic) to is oxidation. In the presence of acids, silver ions may be released (as was definatively demonstrated by Dr. Bart Flick), once released they are then subject to numerous chemical reactions. Again, colloidal size particles, even if they in oxide form, have unique characteristics; however, you won't find this information by cracking open your high school chemistry book. But I do agree that any interesting function of silver particles, as silver particles, is not very relevant to a direct action of killing pathogens. So we definately agree about the value of a highly ionic, highly concentrated stabilized silver solution in distilled water. I can't wait to see the information you present on your generator! Kind Regards, Jason ~Jason Hi Jason, I can clear up some of the confusion you are experiencing. The only product of silver electrolysis is silver ions, Ag+, and the hydroxide ion, OH-. There are no other products in colloidal silver. There can be no other results from the electrolysis process. You cannot get pure silver atoms, or silver oxide, or tetrasilver tetroxide, or any other combination of silver compounds. Only silver ions, Ag+, and the hydroxide, OH-. The only combination you can get from this is silver hydroxide, AgOH. These are the only particles you will see in colloidal silver. This is what turns the solution yellow. There are only a few metals that engage in plasmon resonance. Silver and gold are among them. For silver, this absorbs the blue end of the spectrum and leaves the typical yellow tint that everyone is familiar with. But when you ingest this solution, the AgOH combines with the hydrochloric acid in your stomach and produces silver chloride and water. The equation is: AgOH + HCl -- AgCl + H2O This is a standard acid-base neutralization reaction. Look it up in any high school chemistry textbook. The result is it doesn't matter what kind of silver hydroxide particles you ingest. The particle size, zeta potential, and any other parameters are of no consequence. They are all reduced to silver chloride and water. So particle size has no meaning when you ingest cs. But there is a different way of making cs. I have developed a new method called the SilverCell process. This makes cs up to 44uS, which is the world's strongest and most effective silver ion solution possible. Normally, any cs generator is terminated when the ions from one electrode reach the opposite electrode. They combine in the Nernst Diffusion Layer and form silver hydroxide, AgOH. This terminates the brewing process, since any more electrons that enter the solution only go to forming more silver hydroxide, or they plate out on the cathode. If you continue the brew, you may find the silver ion concentration actually decreases due to extra combination of AgOH in the Nernst Diffusion Layer. So for every electron delivered to the solution, you now lose more than two ions, and it makes no sense to continue the process. But I have developed a way to control the reactions in the Nernst Diffusion Layer. As a result, my solution has absolutely no Tyndall, even in the darkest room. I can deliver the world's highest silver ion concentration in a colloidal silver generator. This makes it by far the most effective cs ever produced. I can also show that the silver ion concentration is essential in combating the most virulent pathogens. See for example my post on http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/msg76134.html This clearly shows the higher ion
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
The more I hear about in vivo views, the less I know! Also very interested in your generator Mike. I have suspected that inadequate concentration of ions in the blood is the main issue when people like me peak in improvements with CS. I definitely want to try your solution out. So is particle size the main factor with nebulizer effectiveness? So Jason, you would say that ultrasonic nebulizers give the best particle sizes? Any thoughts on how they compare to Brooks nebulizer? I also have infected lungs that do not respond to all sorts of nebulized silver products with a cheap edge nebulizer. Thanks, ~David
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi David: Oh, the Brooks Bradley Oxygen Nebulizer is far superior... I didn't include it because most people don't have one and are unable to create one. For some strange reason, people get the idea that if they see more mist than it's better. With the oxygen nebulizer, you can set it so that you can't even see the mist without a mirror to fog out. This gives you by far the most penetration into lung tissue. The problem with spritzers/humidifiers/etc., is that very little of the bioactive silver reaches deep into the lower lobes of the lungs, which are sometimes the worst problem areas. So, you need the best delivery system possible... even then, no matter how painful it is, you have to take very deep, deliberate breaths. If there is fluid build-up in the lungs, then it is very important to nebulize right when waking up in the morning, before the flui has a chance to build up in the lower lobes, as well. Generally speaking, actual nebulizers work better than other solutions (and ultrasonic a bit better than pneumonic) because of the atomization of the solution. It doesn't change, of course, the size of the silver in solution, but with a finer mist you get far less water vapor coating the throat and the upper respiratory tract, and deeper penetration in the lungs. Furthermore, anything you can do to to open the capillaries will also increase the effectiveness of nebulization... Such as taking high heat cayenne pepper under the tongue five to fifteen minutes prior to nebulizing... It can make a big difference. Kind Regards, Jason - Original Message - From: David AuBuchon To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2011 15:03 Subject: Re: CSspectrographs of CS The more I hear about in vivo views, the less I know! Also very interested in your generator Mike. I have suspected that inadequate concentration of ions in the blood is the main issue when people like me peak in improvements with CS. I definitely want to try your solution out. So is particle size the main factor with nebulizer effectiveness? So Jason, you would say that ultrasonic nebulizers give the best particle sizes? Any thoughts on how they compare to Brooks nebulizer? I also have infected lungs that do not respond to all sorts of nebulized silver products with a cheap edge nebulizer. Thanks, ~David
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi Mike and All, Does 26 PPB upper bound relate to free silver ions or silver chloride? In either case, oral ingestion of EIS leads to most of it being absorbed i.e. Altman study. But over what time frame I dont know. But perhaps a high concentration of silver chloride in the blood could exert antimicrobial properties that exceed that of only 26 PPB free silver ions? If that were the case, then the immune system would not necessarily be the missing factor in effectiveness. One thing worth asking is if anyone on this forum knows of anyone who has successfully treated a solely, not just partially, intracellular infection? That would shed light on this also. Of course, I cannot actually name a solely intracellular infection either... Regarding oral EIS, would chasing it with a pure regimen of larger doses of peroxide provide additional benefit than simply adding a small amount of peroxide to EIS? Perhaps inadequate concentration of intracellular silver chloride may be one reason for peaking on oral EIS improvement. General question...why do bugs in vitro or otherwise need a minimum concentration to die? I guess getting shot with 1 BB gun continuously gives bugs enough time to patch up their wounds, whereas getting shot with 50 BB guns does not? Regarding silver cell...perhaps a continous all day long sublingual supply of free silver ions could provide far more stem cell related results than anything previously? And last, one bizzare idea just for kicks...set a silver ``trap``. Somehow intentionally cause accumulation of metallic silver of silver compounds intracellulary...perhaps with liposomes...then spring the trap with peroxide...perhaps with liposomal vitamin C which I guess would create intracellular peroxide. Result...a huge burst of silver ions for a short time? ~David
RE: CSspectrographs of CS
Intracellular infection?
I believe Salmonella falls into this catagory.
There are apparently many forms of Salmonella, and typhoid fever seemingly is
the most severe form.
The food poisoning Salmonella of which I have treated myself for began as
chronic stomack pains {presumably gas} and diarrhea {two visits to the loo in
fairly quick succession}.
The consumption of a glass {250ml} in one sitting of *freshly* produced EIS/CS
stopped it within a matter of a few hours.
The solution will be at its peak of Ag+ ions and highest Ph or alkalinity value
immediately upon cessation of the brewing process, which is when I consumed it.
One sample I had tested 24 hours after production returned a Ph or alkalinity
value exceeding 9.4, what it would have been *immediately* after cessation of
the brewing process I don't know, but can only assume in all probability it
would have been higher.
It's this type of self medication for various conditions which gives me ground
for my opinions on particular aspects in the use of EIS/CS.
In this case I believe *freshly* produced EIS/CS with its high Ag+ ion content
and *possibly?* the high Ph value contributed to the rapid recovery. FWIW.
Don't ask me why I believe this, I just do, I'll leave the science to the
professionals and the biologists.
N.
Date: Sat, 10 Sep 2011 19:48:49 -0700
Subject: Re: CSspectrographs of CS
From: aubuchon.da...@gmail.com
To: silver-list@eskimo.com
Hi Mike and All,
Does 26 PPB upper bound relate to free silver ions or silver chloride? In
either case, oral ingestion of EIS leads to most of it being absorbed i.e.
Altman study. But over what time frame I dont know. But perhaps a high
concentration of silver chloride in the blood could exert antimicrobial
properties that exceed that of only 26 PPB free silver ions? If that were the
case, then the immune system would not necessarily be the missing factor in
effectiveness.
One thing worth asking is if anyone on this forum knows of anyone who has
successfully treated a solely, not just partially, intracellular infection?
That would shed light on this also. Of course, I cannot actually name a solely
intracellular infection either...
Regarding oral EIS, would chasing it with a pure regimen of larger doses of
peroxide provide additional benefit than simply adding a small amount of
peroxide to EIS?
Perhaps inadequate concentration of intracellular silver chloride may be one
reason for peaking on oral EIS improvement.
General question...why do bugs in vitro or otherwise need a minimum
concentration to die? I guess getting shot with 1 BB gun continuously gives
bugs enough time to patch up their wounds, whereas getting shot with 50 BB guns
does not?
Regarding silver cell...perhaps a continous all day long sublingual supply of
free silver ions could provide far more stem cell related results than anything
previously?
And last, one bizzare idea just for kicks...set a silver ``trap``. Somehow
intentionally cause accumulation of metallic silver of silver compounds
intracellulary...perhaps with liposomes...then spring the trap with
peroxide...perhaps with liposomal vitamin C which I guess would create
intracellular peroxide. Result...a huge burst of silver ions for a short time?
~David
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Marshall mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: I have updated the page at http://www.silver-lightning.**com/hach/http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/ I have added graphs of 20 ppm EIS, and what happens when you add 1 drop of H2O2 to 2 ounces of it. When run with the H2O2 mixed with distilled water as a baseline, it is apparent that the H2O2 has created large quantities of 2 atom particles, with lesser amounts of 3, 4, and higher sizes. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-request@**eskimo.com silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com ?subject=**unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**silver-list@eskimo.com/** maillist.htmlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-list@**eskimo.comsilver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Marshall, I am joining this topic late, so pardon my probably already-addressed questions. My questions are in parentheses. On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Marshall mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: I have updated the page at http://www.silver-lightning.**com/hach/http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/ I have added graphs of 20 ppm EIS, and what happens when you add 1 drop of H2O2 to 2 ounces of it.(What is the concentration of the H2O2?) ( What amount would you add for 12 PPM Sol?) When run with the H2O2 mixed with distilled water as a baseline, it is apparent that the H2O2 has created large quantities of 2 atom particles, with lesser amounts of 3, 4, and higher sizes. (How much H202 is added to the distilled water before generation?) I am using a CS Pro Max generator. It runs a circular array of electrodes about a center one, at about 170V DC pulsed. Do you anticipate it will respond in the same manner as the technique you are using? (Is the 2 atom configuration ideal?) Thank you, Jim -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-request@**eskimo.com silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com ?subject=**unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**silver-list@eskimo.com/** maillist.htmlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-list@**eskimo.comsilver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
On 9/9/2011 10:48 AM, Jim Holmes wrote: Marshall, I am joining this topic late, so pardon my probably already-addressed questions. My questions are in parentheses. On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 1:44 PM, Marshall mdud...@king-cart.com mailto:mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: I have updated the page at http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/ I have added graphs of 20 ppm EIS, and what happens when you add 1 drop of H2O2 to 2 ounces of it.(What is the concentration of the H2O2?) ( What amount would you add for 12 PPM Sol?) It was the drug store 3% variety. When run with the H2O2 mixed with distilled water as a baseline, it is apparent that the H2O2 has created large quantities of 2 atom particles, with lesser amounts of 3, 4, and higher sizes. (How much H202 is added to the distilled water before generation?) I am using a CS Pro Max generator. It runs a circular array of electrodes about a center one, at about 170V DC pulsed. Do you anticipate it will respond in the same manner as the technique you are using? (Is the 2 atom configuration ideal?) No, I took 2 oz of 20 ppm EIS that has sat for a couple of weeks and added one drop of H2O2 to it, let it sit a couple of minutes then ran it against the distilled water baseline. Then for the other curve, I added a drop of H2O2 to 2 oz of distilled water, and used that as the baseline, and ran the EIS with H2O2 again with the new baseline. That then basically subtracts out the H2O2 portion of the curve, but since some got converted when added to the EIS, there is slightly more H2O2 in the baseline one, so it overcompensated. I think the chemical reaction will be the same regardless of how the EIS is made. I think that the smaller the particle the more effective it is since that increases the surface area, thus 2 particle would be the most effective. Marshall Thank you, Jim -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
I would love to find that to be true, because micro-waving is so convenient. I realize now that the experiments with plants back in the day may have had more to do with the response of the water of which they were composed, than the plants, themselves. So I wonder, also if there could be a way of remediating microwave damage of other foods, like vegs, etc. Be well, Léna On Sep 8, 2011, at 11:08 PM, Marshall wrote: In the tests I am running tomorrow with the pendents and orgonite, I have 3 jars with distilled water with words written on them: Love, Hate and Fear. Those should be part of the plots I should have tomorrow. Lots of things can restructure water, including microwaves. I need to test that as well, as I suspect simply blessing the water might easily eliminate any adverse structuring. Marshall On 9/8/2011 10:11 PM, Guyot Léna wrote: Hi Marshall, This experiment you're running is fascinating! If you haven't seen it already, you might be interested in reading 'The Hidden Messages in Water' by Masaru Emoto, a scientist who found that taping hostile or loving messages to a water jug would affect the symmetry or distortion of subsequent frozen crystals from those jugs. It was a small scientific paper that went viral and was republished (two vol.s I think) for the general public. His finding on micro-waved water has cured me of heating my tea water that way! Be well, Léna On Sep 8, 2011, at 9:44 PM, Marshall wrote: I am planning on rerunning those tests next week. At that time I was using 2 matched vials, and had done the reiki with the water in the vial. Big mistake, it totally screwed up the vial, so it no longer was matched to the other one. The replacement cost was something like $100, and I ended up getting a reiki master to come over and clear both the vials so they matched again. When I rerun it I will use the same vial for both the baseline and the sample, and will NOT do the prayer or reiki on water in the vial, but in a jelly jar then pour it into the vial, like I just did on the tests today. That way it should have no effect on the vial quartz at all. I am considering the possibility that the reiki and prayer were actually very similar, but because reiki screwed up the vial that maybe the baseline for the prayer was run with, it might be a problem that the vials no longer matched, one of them had an absorption pattern like the water after reiki did. At the time I ran those tests I did not realize the vial had gotten messed up by the reiki, but did later when I ran some more tests. Thus I really have no idea if that is a factor or not, and thus am wanting to rerun the test. I should know in the next few days. Right now I am running tests with a number of pendents and orgonite to see what effect their energy has on the water. Marshall On 9/8/2011 9:27 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Got it. Thanks. I think it would be interesting to see the result of reiki plus prayer (especially by Donna), as they almost exactly would be expected to cancel out. ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
In a message dated 9/9/2011 12:27:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drumr...@stny.rr.com writes: This experiment you're running is fascinating! If you haven't seen it already, you might be interested in reading 'The Hidden Messages in Water' by Masaru Emoto,
Re: CSspectrographs of CS healing with H2O
In a message dated 9/9/2011 12:27:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
drumr...@stny.rr.com writes:
This experiment you're running is fascinating!
If you haven't seen it already, you might be interested in reading 'The
Hidden Messages in Water' by Masaru Emoto,
See if you can find the book Water Crystal Healing--Music Images To
Restore Your Well-Being by Masaru Emoto...I got 3 copies --1 for each of
my children--used-- on Alibris.com for 99 cents each...The book has 2 CDs
with music aimed at the body {we are electrically charged mostly water.so
makes sense the vibrations work. }..I play them lots...{ Esp like track
2--The Blue Danube { while your listening your central nervous system,
which may have withered due to habitual constraint, {can't eat ice cream any
more } will be revitalized. Your heart will open your body will feel
relaxed there is more on the page-The pic of your water crystals in
the
body is there also.. Lois { fast fingers again sorry }
Re: CSspectrographs of CS healing with H2O
Thanks Lois,
I'll check that out. sounds great!
Be well,
Léna
On Sep 9, 2011, at 12:42 PM, zzekel...@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 9/9/2011 12:27:13 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, drumr...@stny.rr.com
writes:
This experiment you're running is fascinating!
If you haven't seen it already, you might be interested in reading
'The Hidden Messages in Water' by Masaru Emoto,
See if you can find the book Water Crystal Healing--Music Images
To Restore Your Well-Being by Masaru Emoto...I got 3 copies --1 for
each of my children--used-- on Alibris.com for 99 cents each...The
book has 2 CDs with music aimed at the body {we are electrically
charged mostly water.so makes sense the vibrations work. }..I play
them lots...{ Esp like track 2--The Blue Danube { while your
listening your central nervous system, which may have withered due to
habitual constraint, {can't eat ice cream any more } will be
revitalized. Your heart will open your body will feel relaxed
there is more on the page-The pic of your water crystals in the
body is there also.. Lois { fast fingers again sorry }
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
I did the first run. Ran into a big problem. I ran a baseline on distilled water, tested it as a sample to verify the baseline was stable and after running the sequence of 10 samples, ran the baseline again as a sample. The second time I ran the distilled water baseline, it showed that the water was structured! So I had to throw out all the previous measurements. I thought it must be some type of instrument instability. I started running the experiment again, running a baseline before each sample. But when I did that each sample after the first one showed the curve the wrong way and getting bigger each time. I finally figured out that since I have healing hands which continually put off healing energy, simply handling the samples and the baseline water were structuring the water, basically turning it into Holy water or something similar. That is I am adding my energy signature to each sample when handling and pouring each one from the jelly jar to the measurement vial. It is also possible that the signature is being impressed on the quartz vial as well, I know this is possible because of my experience earlier with a vial getting messed up by having Reiki done on it. Also quartz is known for holding energy patterns and programming. I am stumped now. It appears that all the samples that I had left overnight are now contaminated by my energy signature. I will have to think about what to do. I will definitely have to rerun the experiment with fresh water. I may have to find someone who is not emitting energy to do the handling for me. this time. If anyone has any ideas on how to get around this please let me know. Thanks, Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
If the power of energy can do this, it can undo this. Perhaps, if you hold the intent that your own energy remain neutral (just this once, for the highest benefit), things might change. As a Reiki master, when I send Reiki I always intend that it only be received if the sendee is willing. (In short, I have 'my people' talk to 'their people'.) I can feel the difference by the energy flow, if it is blocked at the other end. You might also want to contact Masaru Emoto. I'm sure he'd be delighted to talk with you! Be well, Léna On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Marshall wrote: I did the first run. Ran into a big problem. I ran a baseline on distilled water, tested it as a sample to verify the baseline was stable and after running the sequence of 10 samples, ran the baseline again as a sample. The second time I ran the distilled water baseline, it showed that the water was structured! So I had to throw out all the previous measurements. I thought it must be some type of instrument instability. I started running the experiment again, running a baseline before each sample. But when I did that each sample after the first one showed the curve the wrong way and getting bigger each time. I finally figured out that since I have healing hands which continually put off healing energy, simply handling the samples and the baseline water were structuring the water, basically turning it into Holy water or something similar. That is I am adding my energy signature to each sample when handling and pouring each one from the jelly jar to the measurement vial. It is also possible that the signature is being impressed on the quartz vial as well, I know this is possible because of my experience earlier with a vial getting messed up by having Reiki done on it. Also quartz is known for holding energy patterns and programming. I am stumped now. It appears that all the samples that I had left overnight are now contaminated by my energy signature. I will have to think about what to do. I will definitely have to rerun the experiment with fresh water. I may have to find someone who is not emitting energy to do the handling for me. this time. If anyone has any ideas on how to get around this please let me know. Thanks, Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Thanks for the suggestions. I will see if I can get Mr Emoto's email address and see if he has any insight on it. I have never tried turning it off, but have simply intended for it to flow freely to anyone who wants and needs it for healing. Marshall On 9/9/2011 1:28 PM, Guyot Léna wrote: If the power of energy can do this, it can undo this. Perhaps, if you hold the intent that your own energy remain neutral (just this once, for the highest benefit), things might change. As a Reiki master, when I send Reiki I always intend that it only be received if the sendee is willing. (In short, I have 'my people' talk to 'their people'.) I can feel the difference by the energy flow, if it is blocked at the other end. You might also want to contact Masaru Emoto. I'm sure he'd be delighted to talk with you! Be well, Léna On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Marshall wrote: I did the first run. Ran into a big problem. I ran a baseline on distilled water, tested it as a sample to verify the baseline was stable and after running the sequence of 10 samples, ran the baseline again as a sample. The second time I ran the distilled water baseline, it showed that the water was structured! So I had to throw out all the previous measurements. I thought it must be some type of instrument instability. I started running the experiment again, running a baseline before each sample. But when I did that each sample after the first one showed the curve the wrong way and getting bigger each time. I finally figured out that since I have healing hands which continually put off healing energy, simply handling the samples and the baseline water were structuring the water, basically turning it into Holy water or something similar. That is I am adding my energy signature to each sample when handling and pouring each one from the jelly jar to the measurement vial. It is also possible that the signature is being impressed on the quartz vial as well, I know this is possible because of my experience earlier with a vial getting messed up by having Reiki done on it. Also quartz is known for holding energy patterns and programming. I am stumped now. It appears that all the samples that I had left overnight are now contaminated by my energy signature. I will have to think about what to do. I will definitely have to rerun the experiment with fresh water. I may have to find someone who is not emitting energy to do the handling for me. this time. If anyone has any ideas on how to get around this please let me know. Thanks, Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
RE: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi Lena, Have you read the book Hire the Heavens. PT From: Guyot Léna [mailto:drumr...@stny.rr.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:28 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSspectrographs of CS If the power of energy can do this, it can undo this. Perhaps, if you hold the intent that your own energy remain neutral (just this once, for the highest benefit), things might change. As a Reiki master, when I send Reiki I always intend that it only be received if the sendee is willing. (In short, I have 'my people' talk to 'their people'.) I can feel the difference by the energy flow, if it is blocked at the other end. You might also want to contact Masaru Emoto. I'm sure he'd be delighted to talk with you! Be well, Léna On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Marshall wrote: I did the first run. Ran into a big problem. I ran a baseline on distilled water, tested it as a sample to verify the baseline was stable and after running the sequence of 10 samples, ran the baseline again as a sample. The second time I ran the distilled water baseline, it showed that the water was structured! So I had to throw out all the previous measurements. I thought it must be some type of instrument instability. I started running the experiment again, running a baseline before each sample. But when I did that each sample after the first one showed the curve the wrong way and getting bigger each time. I finally figured out that since I have healing hands which continually put off healing energy, simply handling the samples and the baseline water were structuring the water, basically turning it into Holy water or something similar. That is I am adding my energy signature to each sample when handling and pouring each one from the jelly jar to the measurement vial. It is also possible that the signature is being impressed on the quartz vial as well, I know this is possible because of my experience earlier with a vial getting messed up by having Reiki done on it. Also quartz is known for holding energy patterns and programming. I am stumped now. It appears that all the samples that I had left overnight are now contaminated by my energy signature. I will have to think about what to do. I will definitely have to rerun the experiment with fresh water. I may have to find someone who is not emitting energy to do the handling for me. this time. If anyone has any ideas on how to get around this please let me know. Thanks, Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com _ No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3886 - Release Date: 09/09/11
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi Marshall, Smaller particles being the most effective among particles...but all in all you would still say the ionic portion of EIS is responsible for most of the results, right? ~David
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
No, but I'll look it up! Thanks! Léna On Sep 9, 2011, at 2:01 PM, PTFerrance wrote: Hi Lena, Have you read the book Hire the Heavens. PT From: Guyot Léna [mailto:drumr...@stny.rr.com] Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 1:28 PM To: silver-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: CSspectrographs of CS If the power of energy can do this, it can undo this. Perhaps, if you hold the intent that your own energy remain neutral (just this once, for the highest benefit), things might change. As a Reiki master, when I send Reiki I always intend that it only be received if the sendee is willing. (In short, I have 'my people' talk to 'their people'.) I can feel the difference by the energy flow, if it is blocked at the other end. You might also want to contact Masaru Emoto. I'm sure he'd be delighted to talk with you! Be well, Léna On Sep 9, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Marshall wrote: I did the first run. Ran into a big problem. I ran a baseline on distilled water, tested it as a sample to verify the baseline was stable and after running the sequence of 10 samples, ran the baseline again as a sample. The second time I ran the distilled water baseline, it showed that the water was structured! So I had to throw out all the previous measurements. I thought it must be some type of instrument instability. I started running the experiment again, running a baseline before each sample. But when I did that each sample after the first one showed the curve the wrong way and getting bigger each time. I finally figured out that since I have healing hands which continually put off healing energy, simply handling the samples and the baseline water were structuring the water, basically turning it into Holy water or something similar. That is I am adding my energy signature to each sample when handling and pouring each one from the jelly jar to the measurement vial. It is also possible that the signature is being impressed on the quartz vial as well, I know this is possible because of my experience earlier with a vial getting messed up by having Reiki done on it. Also quartz is known for holding energy patterns and programming. I am stumped now. It appears that all the samples that I had left overnight are now contaminated by my energy signature. I will have to think about what to do. I will definitely have to rerun the experiment with fresh water. I may have to find someone who is not emitting energy to do the handling for me. this time. If anyone has any ideas on how to get around this please let me know. Thanks, Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1392 / Virus Database: 1520/3886 - Release Date: 09/09/11
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
The ionic portion is totally responsible for turning damaged cells into stem cells to allow better and scar free healing. As far as the killing of pathogens, I am not sure. I believe that ionic is better against some and colloidal is better against others. But as far as I know, no one has run the experiments to determine that, and which pathogens are more susceptible to which. Marshall On 9/9/2011 2:10 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Hi Marshall, Smaller particles being the most effective among particles...but all in all you would still say the ionic portion of EIS is responsible for most of the results, right? ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Createa (mental) shield either around the objects or yourself (sort of a Farady cage) thus preventing contamination . Sound reasonable ? :-) Regards hg Marshall wrote: I did the first run. Ran into a big problem. I ran a baseline on distilled water, tested it as a sample to verify the baseline was stable and after running the sequence of 10 samples, ran the baseline again as a sample. The second time I ran the distilled water baseline, it showed that the water was structured! So I had to throw out all the previous measurements. I thought it must be some type of instrument instability. I started running the experiment again, running a baseline before each sample. But when I did that each sample after the first one showed the curve the wrong way and getting bigger each time. I finally figured out that since I have healing hands which continually put off healing energy, simply handling the samples and the baseline water were structuring the water, basically turning it into Holy water or something similar. That is I am adding my energy signature to each sample when handling and pouring each one from the jelly jar to the measurement vial. It is also possible that the signature is being impressed on the quartz vial as well, I know this is possible because of my experience earlier with a vial getting messed up by having Reiki done on it. Also quartz is known for holding energy patterns and programming. I am stumped now. It appears that all the samples that I had left overnight are now contaminated by my energy signature. I will have to think about what to do. I will definitely have to rerun the experiment with fresh water. I may have to find someone who is not emitting energy to do the handling for me. this time. If anyone has any ideas on how to get around this please let me know. Thanks, Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Theres no solid evidence that any particular form of silver is any more 'effective' than any other form. Numerous lab test seem to indicate that all forms of silver are effective. Pure silver particles, silver ions, and all sorts of silver compounds, all seem to kill germs. There are indications that some forms of silver may kill pathogens 'quicker' (in vitro) but that doesn't mean that in the longer term they are any more effective. For example a pure silver particle (eg mesosilver) may (or may not) work more 'slowly', but it may retain its effectiveness for much longer, thereby killing more pathogens overall, so the benefit ultimately may be greater than an ion that (may) work only momentarily. Anyway all the results we have are 'in vitro' (i.e. lab tests). We have no real idea of whats really happening in the human body. And is there any such thing as a silver 'ion' in the blood stream anyway? Don't silver ions immeadiately become a 'silver compound particle' the instant they are ingested? The whole argument about smaller particles being more effective than larger particles is somewhat nebulous too. I can't say I've ever seen a lab test that proves it, and theres certainly no clinical trials that support it. The bottom line is that we need to be very careful about making definitive statements based on lab tests. Pure CS in a petri dish is a very different proposition to a mouthful of CS swallowed by an adult human. David (Australia) Re: CSspectrographs of CS[ David AuBuchon aubuchon.david@gmai ] Hi Marshall, Smaller particles being the most effective among particles...but all in all you would still say the ionic portion of EIS is responsible for most of the results, right? ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Greetings, ...while there are no published definative studes done, medical doctors have done their own comparitive analysis with their patients, and I've never found a single medical doctor that hasn't drawn the same conclusion. They may be out there, but I haven't found one. Once a silver ion enters the bloodstream, it quickly converts to the most likely compound: Silver chloride. Silver chloride still has antimicrobial properties, probably more than inert silver particles. For direct killing power, I'd rather have silver chloride active in the body than silver particles. However, minutely sized silver particles have colloidal properties not shared by silver ions. As was demonstrated by a scientist from Standford University (Professor William A. Tiller), the presence of bioactive silver is not required in order for silver to have pathogen killing power: Only its electromagnetic signature. Silver particles, even if coated in oxides, provided that they are colloidal-sized, have a zeta potential that... like all colloids... act as catalysts by their mere presence. The most effective way to deliver EIS, for the home user, into the body is via ultrasonic nebulization. The most effective way to deliver it is to do an IV drip, followed by an IV drip of H2O2. Silver complexes blow apart in the presence of H2O2, just like silver particles do. The toxicology of EIS (be it colloidal silver sized particles or silver ions in distilled water) is extremely low; so while some forms of silver might be more powerful directly (such as highly concentrated silver citrate), I only use EIS with a pH very close to neutral. Some manufacturing methods create acidic CS; at best, one is simply delivering small amounts of silver nitrate into the body. There are methods that individuals can use to definatively determine the effectiveness of a given silver product, but I don't recommend them for the average person because the side effects can be unpredictable. In my experience (speaking only for myself), Argentyn 23 is at least four times more effective than the silver I make using my modified Silvergen SG-7. However, for oral use, as Marshall has been playing with, adding H2O2 to the mix may make up for the variable. The problem is, one cannot then make a determination if the increase in effectiveness is due to the activated oxygen or smaller particles. The cost difference is too high to justify the expense of purchasing a retail product, no matter how good it may be... especially since we go through five gallon batches of EIS quite often. I do find it sad that so much knowledge and research was lost to the average person regarding the different types of silver products, and quality guidelines. ...but I will say that there are many little quiet clinics around the country (like the one I sometimes go to for non-related therapy) where you'll find a room full of people getting Argentyn 23 IV drips, and the medical doctors administering them would pour products like (brand name removed) down the toilet rather than give them to their patients, because these doctors can do things like live blood cell analysis before and after treatment. I personally am a middle of the road person, and see plenty of value in both colloids and ions. The problem people face when dealing with pathogenic infections is understanding the biological origin of the infection, and understanding the biological reason the body cannot beat the infection. 7/10 the reason people cannot beat their infections is poor bowel health. ~Jason - Original Message - From: Alchemysa da...@alchemysa.com.au To: silver-list@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, September 09, 2011 17:32 Subject: Re: Re: CSspectrographs of CS Theres no solid evidence that any particular form of silver is any more 'effective' than any other form. Numerous lab test seem to indicate that all forms of silver are effective. Pure silver particles, silver ions, and all sorts of silver compounds, all seem to kill germs. There are indications that some forms of silver may kill pathogens 'quicker' (in vitro) but that doesn't mean that in the longer term they are any more effective. For example a pure silver particle (eg mesosilver) may (or may not) work more 'slowly', but it may retain its effectiveness for much longer, thereby killing more pathogens overall, so the benefit ultimately may be greater than an ion that (may) work only momentarily. Anyway all the results we have are 'in vitro' (i.e. lab tests). We have no real idea of whats really happening in the human body. And is there any such thing as a silver 'ion' in the blood stream anyway? Don't silver ions immeadiately become a 'silver compound particle' the instant they are ingested? The whole argument about smaller particles being more effective than larger particles is somewhat nebulous too. I can't say I've ever seen a lab test
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Re: Re: CSspectrographs of CS Jason R Eaton Fri, 09 Sep 2011 18:27:45 -0700 In my experience (speaking only for myself), Argentyn 23 is at least four times more effective than the silver I make using my modified Silvergen SG-7. However, for oral use, as Marshall has been playing with, adding H2O2 to the mix may make up for the variable. The problem is, one cannot then make a determination if the increase in effectiveness is due to the activated oxygen or smaller particles. The cost difference is too high to justify the expense of purchasing a retail product, no matter how good it may be... especially since we go through five gallon batches of EIS quite often. I do find it sad that so much knowledge and research was lost to the average person regarding the different types of silver products, and quality guidelines. ...but I will say that there are many little quiet clinics around the country (like the one I sometimes go to for non-related therapy) where you'll find a room full of people getting Argentyn 23 IV drips, and the medical doctors administering them would pour products like (brand name removed) down the toilet rather than give them to their patients, because these doctors can do things like live blood cell analysis before and after treatment. I personally am a middle of the road person, and see plenty of value in both colloids and ions. The problem people face when dealing with pathogenic infections is understanding the biological origin of the infection, and understanding the biological reason the body cannot beat the infection. 7/10 the reason people cannot beat their infections is poor bowel health. ~Jason Hi Jason, I can clear up some of the confusion you are experiencing. The only product of silver electrolysis is silver ions, Ag+, and the hydroxide ion, OH-. There are no other products in colloidal silver. There can be no other results from the electrolysis process. You cannot get pure silver atoms, or silver oxide, or tetrasilver tetroxide, or any other combination of silver compounds. Only silver ions, Ag+, and the hydroxide, OH-. The only combination you can get from this is silver hydroxide, AgOH. These are the only particles you will see in colloidal silver. This is what turns the solution yellow. There are only a few metals that engage in plasmon resonance. Silver and gold are among them. For silver, this absorbs the blue end of the spectrum and leaves the typical yellow tint that everyone is familiar with. But when you ingest this solution, the AgOH combines with the hydrochloric acid in your stomach and produces silver chloride and water. The equation is: AgOH + HCl -- AgCl + H2O This is a standard acid-base neutralization reaction. Look it up in any high school chemistry textbook. The result is it doesn't matter what kind of silver hydroxide particles you ingest. The particle size, zeta potential, and any other parameters are of no consequence. They are all reduced to silver chloride and water. So particle size has no meaning when you ingest cs. But there is a different way of making cs. I have developed a new method called the SilverCell process. This makes cs up to 44uS, which is the world's strongest and most effective silver ion solution possible. Normally, any cs generator is terminated when the ions from one electrode reach the opposite electrode. They combine in the Nernst Diffusion Layer and form silver hydroxide, AgOH. This terminates the brewing process, since any more electrons that enter the solution only go to forming more silver hydroxide, or they plate out on the cathode. If you continue the brew, you may find the silver ion concentration actually decreases due to extra combination of AgOH in the Nernst Diffusion Layer. So for every electron delivered to the solution, you now lose more than two ions, and it makes no sense to continue the process. But I have developed a way to control the reactions in the Nernst Diffusion Layer. As a result, my solution has absolutely no Tyndall, even in the darkest room. I can deliver the world's highest silver ion concentration in a colloidal silver generator. This makes it by far the most effective cs ever produced. I can also show that the silver ion concentration is essential in combating the most virulent pathogens. See for example my post on http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/msg76134.html This clearly shows the higher ion concentration is essential to combat serious pathogens. As you point out, Argentyn 23 is at least four times more effective than the silver you were making with your modified Silvergen SG-7. So
CSspectrographs of CS
I have updated the page at http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/ I have added graphs of 20 ppm EIS, and what happens when you add 1 drop of H2O2 to 2 ounces of it. When run with the H2O2 mixed with distilled water as a baseline, it is apparent that the H2O2 has created large quantities of 2 atom particles, with lesser amounts of 3, 4, and higher sizes. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
What's the conclusion with respect to the effectiveness of the compound? How should the graph look for maximum effectiveness? Olushola On Thu, Sep 8, 2011 at 3:44 PM, Marshall mdud...@king-cart.com wrote: I have updated the page at http://www.silver-lightning.**com/hach/http://www.silver-lightning.com/hach/ I have added graphs of 20 ppm EIS, and what happens when you add 1 drop of H2O2 to 2 ounces of it. When run with the H2O2 mixed with distilled water as a baseline, it is apparent that the H2O2 has created large quantities of 2 atom particles, with lesser amounts of 3, 4, and higher sizes. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-request@**eskimo.com silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com ?subject=**unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/**silver-list@eskimo.com/** maillist.htmlhttp://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-list@**eskimo.comsilver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Can we get a layman's intro to spectrometers? Here is my understanding: Light of various wavelengths is sent through a material. In this case, a silver particle of a given diameter will absorb light of a particular wavelength which is some function of the particle's diameter. Therefore only some fraction of light with that wavelength will reach a receiver on the other side of material. Light of wavelengths greater than any particle can absorb, according to this relation, will 100% reach the receiver. Based on how much of each wavelength of light reaches the reciever, the plots are made. Is this a correct understanding? ~David
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Okay, I think I see...it's not a function of diameter but rather size and configuration of atoms.
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Yes, it is basically a colormeter. If you take light and run it through a prism and break it into its various colors, then have a slit where only one color gets through, and take a reading of the intensity of that color, move the prism so one of a slightly different frequency goes through the slit and measure it, then graph the results vs wavelength, that is what you get. Well actually what is plotted is the amount of absorption above what distilled water gives, not the amount that gets through. The reason these instruments can show large absorption band in water that otherwise appears clear is that the absorption bands are in thee uv or ir range, which we cannot see. If we could, then we would see that blessing water actually changes its color right before our eyes! For more information see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monochromator Also google search for scanning spectrophotometer. Marshall On 9/8/2011 5:44 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Can we get a layman's intro to spectrometers? Here is my understanding: Light of various wavelengths is sent through a material. In this case, a silver particle of a given diameter will absorb light of a particular wavelength which is some function of the particle's diameter. Therefore only some fraction of light with that wavelength will reach a receiver on the other side of material. Light of wavelengths greater than any particle can absorb, according to this relation, will 100% reach the receiver. Based on how much of each wavelength of light reaches the reciever, the plots are made. Is this a correct understanding? ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
On 9/8/2011 5:55 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Okay, I think I see...it's not a function of diameter but rather size and configuration of atoms. It is a function of size, which of course the diameter is as well. The larger the particle, the longer the wavelength light it absorbs. Now if you have a spherical particle, or one as close to spherical as possible with the number of atoms in it, it will have a sharp absorption band, since the resonance will be the same across any of its diameters. But if you have one which is longer then it is wide, or irregularly shaped, then the resonance across the minimum diameter will be a shorter wavelength than across its maximum diameter and everything in between between those two wavelengths. Thus a particle that is not completely symmetrical will not have a sharp absorption resonance, which is why after 4 atoms, it all smears out into a broad curve. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Regarding the reiki, do the negative values indicate that more light is coming out of the water than was shined through to begin with? Regarding peroxide, my impression is that in regular EIS the particles are not metallic silver but are clumps of silver oxide/hydroxide molecules. If so, could you explain how silver in this state becomes metallic, which would be necessary to fit in line with the observation that only 1 configuration is possible with 2, 3, and 4 atom colloids. That statement for example would not make sense if the particles are still composed of compounds. ~David
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
On 9/8/2011 6:18 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Regarding the reiki, do the negative values indicate that more light is coming out of the water than was shined through to begin with? Yes, oddly enough it seems that the water became MORE transparent for the visible through ir range, especially the ir. Regarding peroxide, my impression is that in regular EIS the particles are not metallic silver but are clumps of silver oxide/hydroxide molecules. If so, could you explain how silver in this state becomes metallic, which would be necessary to fit in line with the observation that only 1 configuration is possible with 2, 3, and 4 atom colloids. That statement for example would not make sense if the particles are still composed of compounds. H2O2 is a redux operator, that is it is both an oxidizer and reducer. It will oxidize silver particles, producing silver silver oxide, and will reduce silver oxide to 2 particle silver particles. The final result is that most larger particles of silver get broken up and form either ionic silver or 2, 3 or 4 atom particles. oxidation: 2Ag + 2H2O2 = Ag2O2 + 2H2O reduction: Ag2O2 + 2H2O2 = 2Ag + 2H2O + O2 The result is the breakup of large particles either by converting them to silver oxide, or converting enough of them to silver oxide that when it dissolves, the rest of the particle falls apart, then converting the produced silver oxide to 2 atom silver particles. Marshall ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Got it. Thanks. I think it would be interesting to see the result of reiki plus prayer (especially by Donna), as they almost exactly would be expected to cancel out. ~David
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
I am planning on rerunning those tests next week. At that time I was using 2 matched vials, and had done the reiki with the water in the vial. Big mistake, it totally screwed up the vial, so it no longer was matched to the other one. The replacement cost was something like $100, and I ended up getting a reiki master to come over and clear both the vials so they matched again. When I rerun it I will use the same vial for both the baseline and the sample, and will NOT do the prayer or reiki on water in the vial, but in a jelly jar then pour it into the vial, like I just did on the tests today. That way it should have no effect on the vial quartz at all. I am considering the possibility that the reiki and prayer were actually very similar, but because reiki screwed up the vial that maybe the baseline for the prayer was run with, it might be a problem that the vials no longer matched, one of them had an absorption pattern like the water after reiki did. At the time I ran those tests I did not realize the vial had gotten messed up by the reiki, but did later when I ran some more tests. Thus I really have no idea if that is a factor or not, and thus am wanting to rerun the test. I should know in the next few days. Right now I am running tests with a number of pendents and orgonite to see what effect their energy has on the water. Marshall On 9/8/2011 9:27 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Got it. Thanks. I think it would be interesting to see the result of reiki plus prayer (especially by Donna), as they almost exactly would be expected to cancel out. ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi David, I'm just stumbling upon this thread. 'Reiki' caught my eye, and I searched back to see where it had first been mentioned, but couldn't find it, so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding context . What really DID get my attention was the remark below about reiki plus prayer and the odd idea that ' they almost exactly would be expected to cancel out. WHAT?!!! As a Reiki master, I've had the privilege of teaching it to nuns, two ministers, a Hindu sitar master, hospice workers, doctors, nurses, and many devoted religious people whose daily practice definitely included prayer. They all felt that it enhanced their connection to their spirituality and for those who pray, their prayers. It in no way cancelled anything except pain, fear, stress and disease. Reiki means 'Rei' (universal) 'Ki' (energy). Many clients say it feels like Love: unconditional, inclusive, expansive, and confirming of their highest spiritual experiences. But it isn't a religion. It is a technique rescued from obscurity by a Buddhist monk, but that doesn't make it Buddhist, any more than Marconi developing radio makes radio waves Italian. Reiki is a powerful, nurturing energy that doesn't heal in and of itself, but provides the body the energy that it can use to heal. If it were psychosomatic, it wouldn't work on babies or animals, but it does, sometimes very dramatically, as in the case of a service dog with an abcessed ear. It is probably one of the things what kept me relatively healthy for so long despite my 40-year case of undxed chronic Lyme. It certainly helps with pain and herxes! Just wanted to clarify.=) Be well, Léna On Sep 8, 2011, at 9:27 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Got it. Thanks. I think it would be interesting to see the result of reiki plus prayer (especially by Donna), as ~David
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
Hi Marshall, This experiment you're running is fascinating! If you haven't seen it already, you might be interested in reading 'The Hidden Messages in Water' by Masaru Emoto, a scientist who found that taping hostile or loving messages to a water jug would affect the symmetry or distortion of subsequent frozen crystals from those jugs. It was a small scientific paper that went viral and was republished (two vol.s I think) for the general public. His finding on micro-waved water has cured me of heating my tea water that way! Be well, Léna On Sep 8, 2011, at 9:44 PM, Marshall wrote: I am planning on rerunning those tests next week. At that time I was using 2 matched vials, and had done the reiki with the water in the vial. Big mistake, it totally screwed up the vial, so it no longer was matched to the other one. The replacement cost was something like $100, and I ended up getting a reiki master to come over and clear both the vials so they matched again. When I rerun it I will use the same vial for both the baseline and the sample, and will NOT do the prayer or reiki on water in the vial, but in a jelly jar then pour it into the vial, like I just did on the tests today. That way it should have no effect on the vial quartz at all. I am considering the possibility that the reiki and prayer were actually very similar, but because reiki screwed up the vial that maybe the baseline for the prayer was run with, it might be a problem that the vials no longer matched, one of them had an absorption pattern like the water after reiki did. At the time I ran those tests I did not realize the vial had gotten messed up by the reiki, but did later when I ran some more tests. Thus I really have no idea if that is a factor or not, and thus am wanting to rerun the test. I should know in the next few days. Right now I am running tests with a number of pendents and orgonite to see what effect their energy has on the water. Marshall On 9/8/2011 9:27 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Got it. Thanks. I think it would be interesting to see the result of reiki plus prayer (especially by Donna), as they almost exactly would be expected to cancel out. ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
Re: CSspectrographs of CS
In the tests I am running tomorrow with the pendents and orgonite, I have 3 jars with distilled water with words written on them: Love, Hate and Fear. Those should be part of the plots I should have tomorrow. Lots of things can restructure water, including microwaves. I need to test that as well, as I suspect simply blessing the water might easily eliminate any adverse structuring. Marshall On 9/8/2011 10:11 PM, Guyot Léna wrote: Hi Marshall, This experiment you're running is fascinating! If you haven't seen it already, you might be interested in reading 'The Hidden Messages in Water' by Masaru Emoto, a scientist who found that taping hostile or loving messages to a water jug would affect the symmetry or distortion of subsequent frozen crystals from those jugs. It was a small scientific paper that went viral and was republished (two vol.s I think) for the general public. His finding on micro-waved water has cured me of heating my tea water that way! Be well, Léna On Sep 8, 2011, at 9:44 PM, Marshall wrote: I am planning on rerunning those tests next week. At that time I was using 2 matched vials, and had done the reiki with the water in the vial. Big mistake, it totally screwed up the vial, so it no longer was matched to the other one. The replacement cost was something like $100, and I ended up getting a reiki master to come over and clear both the vials so they matched again. When I rerun it I will use the same vial for both the baseline and the sample, and will NOT do the prayer or reiki on water in the vial, but in a jelly jar then pour it into the vial, like I just did on the tests today. That way it should have no effect on the vial quartz at all. I am considering the possibility that the reiki and prayer were actually very similar, but because reiki screwed up the vial that maybe the baseline for the prayer was run with, it might be a problem that the vials no longer matched, one of them had an absorption pattern like the water after reiki did. At the time I ran those tests I did not realize the vial had gotten messed up by the reiki, but did later when I ran some more tests. Thus I really have no idea if that is a factor or not, and thus am wanting to rerun the test. I should know in the next few days. Right now I am running tests with a number of pendents and orgonite to see what effect their energy has on the water. Marshall On 9/8/2011 9:27 PM, David AuBuchon wrote: Got it. Thanks. I think it would be interesting to see the result of reiki plus prayer (especially by Donna), as they almost exactly would be expected to cancel out. ~David -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org Unsubscribe: mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html Off-Topic discussions: mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com List Owner: Mike Devour mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com
