Re: [SLUG] Security Vulnerability Scanners
not sure if its up to date but SATAN used to be amazing The Gods Previously Read: On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 04:22:35PM +1000, Doug Stalker wrote: Can anyone recommend a good security vulnerability scanner that can generate a nice list of vulnerabilities that I can use to try and get Try nessus: http://www.nessus.org/ Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- Guy Taylor Obsidian Systems Cell: 083 357 3438 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK: Available at ftp://lava.obsidian.co.za/pub/keys/guyspubkey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Talks for SLUG meetings (including this month's)
MORNING SLUGGERS! Ahem. We had a long list of talks a while back, and they've finally dwindled away, leaving us with the opportunity to find some more... If you've got something you'd like to share, perhaps some new software, a neat trick, a "you should be using this!" cluestick, or an overview of a Linux-related topic for your fellow SLUGgers, now's the time to pipe up. We'd like some talks for this month especially soon (by Friday please), but don't hesitate to post future ideas here too. Please keep this on-list, as opposed to sending it to the committee, because it's more fun that way. ;) Thanks all, - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- Ye shall be cursed to fall in love so easily, and yet be so cold of heart as never to express it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Make bttv produces kernel not configed for modules - howto fix
SUSE - your bit is down the bottom, but you might want to read the
complete message.
chesty wrote:
Damien Curtain wrote:
install the kernel source in /usr/src/linux and do a make config,
On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 11:32:06AM +1100, Terry Collins wrote:
The problem has nothing to do with the message produced.
The kernel distributed with Suse 6.4 does load modules.
I can insmond/rmmod/etc with no problems.
"make bttv" produces an erroneous message.
Look at the Makefile, how does it test to see if you kernel
supports modules? How hard could it be?
You've actually hit upon what my brain had been crystalising around, but
didn't have a bit of the knowledge to know where to look as I've never
written a program under linux.
Suse link /usr/src/linux to /usr/src/linux-2.2.14.SuSE which has NO
.config.
The Makefile for bttv installs to /usr/src/$(CURRENT)/misc, where
CURRENT = $( shell uname -r ) i.e 2.2.14.
/usr/src/linux-2.2.14 has a .config with CONFIG_MODULES=y
So, I gather what was happening was that the make was looking in
/usr/src/linux-2.2.14.SuSE and not seeking a .config and thus deciding
that the kernel was not configured for modules
I'd bet damien gave good advise, you probably need the kernel source
installed to be able to make kernel modules (makes sense to me), and
the makefile may look at /usr/src/linux/.config to check for module
support?
I had already been through installing the source, so that was not the
problem.
There is nothing wrong with the advice given by Damien and Kevin in a
general sense (which is why I posted this reply to the list), but it was
not applicable in this case. I apologize if I had not made the
circumstances clear enough.
The important point was that the kernel was loading modules, but "make
bttv" generated a erroneous message. I wanted to know where that message
was coming from and hopefully why.
Now I know about .config files. A softlink from
/usr/src/linux-2.2.14.SuSE/.config to /usr/src/linux-2.2.14/.config has
fixed the problem.
This is actually the second time I've come across this problem, but the
first time it went away with attempts to fix it, so the real problem and
fix was not found on that occassion.
Suse, Redhat and others who want to do no standard stuff are going to
have to be aware of this problem. It is not something that the average
linux users should have to know.
..
Bit for SUSE
This is the message you sent me. The solution to the problem is in the
stuff above. i.e - you link /usr/src/linux to /usr/src/linux-ver.SuSE
and this causes the problem as there is no .config file there.
This is some of the message you sent me, so you can follow it up.
--
Dear SuSE Linux User,
thank you very much for your message regarding "Error "Modules support
not in kernel""
to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
As you might know, [EMAIL PROTECTED] has been set up for collecting
ideas,
bug reports and comments about our Linux Distribution, SuSE Linux.
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
snail: PO Box 1047, Campbelltown, NSW 2560.
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] viewing troops.mov ?
I've grabbed hold of troops.mov from aarnet. This is Sorenson/QDMC. How to watch it ? xanim 2.80 does not (at least from the default load). Running debian 2.2, what are my options ? Thanks, -- John August Some of us are paying for sins we have committed. Others are paying for sins we still have to commit. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Make bttv produces kernel not configed for modules -howto fix
I don't think this is SuSE's fault. bttv's build procedure is using a dodgy procedure to detect if module support is available. What if I had been building the kernel in /usr/local/src? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Pine
Hello all. I have just moved back to pine after a _long_ time, and am having trouble finding out how I move to the next unread message regardless of it's folder. Any ideas? Thanks, Mikal -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org mQGiBDmg+g4RBACd6Th9Kpvve/8GgUQkBxVQlipENCaqC2/j5lkkcTfvqBLiIPaC 4j1u5egxql+hrotTa37jSqH6Dl/Xl7q6hVwGNqEG4YLirX/9vxd2cBWgtvDufboN y5H0ngEf0s4r8eelle/L/Sof/50LqILE6IUrIVNFmb+Vgv21dxiWCoSiEwCgqPQl YwfAjbI2aKEW2jLcoJa3kxED/A9AnhhNS9ApAeIuFbosHv6U21H0BguzXzF5hOP6 haU2M+wGdH/yE9KlfW7wzPjed1Nw53OwL8dEaxqgag1Emlc0By731AOHTX3fYy1+ dtOkPIdgqfWCvq7m5dY2UINOLs5gffAxVk09MKzqBRSTfr31sucSImJOfo1Hd2jB y83HBACGbtwJHG3kZkiHC2AiVEvZgGPDmoGCKHgyQSkLRygxTsT8klV8NOzfq44R G+7UPIEyTB542bSXSaGPq40Dt11Rrv9uAZlp+ndr/cffUKoeEH9av+o4lMPKX5Y8 YuH7u/DgzRlXJT/jIXp3SzKZ4NIankhvrVsx5rHOBd+sHmeW7LQhTWljaGFlbCBT dGlsbCA8bWlrYWxAc3RpbGxocS5jb20+iFYEExECABYFAjmg+g4ECwoEAwMVAwID FgIBAheAAAoJEJYUt9jK8d+9K/4An0oIlg7TMyBAaS87N3GxVYioa89wAJ40h2ii f++YLAaMYL+E6FWHXMhWj7kCDQQ5oP2mEAgAiwU6GEJNJnIQaAz/pXaJ685LMP+x vrIJnUhdMmrDiEypr7qJSZQLj10O2ABTZWLsFz/+/7qPJT2zKFv2VvSatV5oaoTt 7y8DDGrlg+l5atA7VmqBXfrbsjo0j2qrny5M/hYd1IO7CVPraoygqm8qoeivO4wR xg8dvBaojDTccpmVinedKDCTjkdNKOEAvkCOM10LpnzcB0aQZSnhm3w3xKgfV7Rf SaloTgK7Q4qE3Ut07whDZ3v3VD2N07xK1nFQuqYRFyQT/IzmLyIrKcjptbsqnb02 5wRv7IF5EzNcCLfRfBW2YhFwPsdpbqKSX84/9pzc9ZzkC+7CZpwP7CWmwwADBQf+ Lec8e3dezLSajoEi/WQhEAePFN10zUrrZg6hBy8117cZAc6dUZxiVJllucFzH0l/ RSMVejUq5wSWsTdgQB3BJwnW0O4wFVzP2zt56a0R3Zz4GWNAVobZtcpQe0jay4rg Zh5dWzsEkEPLVD6zKsizffD1tFVOaABCZFGTwykVp7ploWNkD7fDxgxdOVSVcv+U wTEASioNC4TSLZ+/Lh0Kb7OZwdro0xm6lqc3YKN6oQTQKX8PmpoaY42k+IYAh++v LG2JVOzg2BZ+jYlKEKAqcmPSdn7L5MsNV8SAeFZy6etC+OcQjpSzczsygT8x3xH6 uRrQn6r8Z2aCorAJaSIU64hGBBgRAgAGBQI5oP2mAAoJEJYUt9jK8d+9nU0An0G+ FkDwzOzOLtX10rzHDPAwA1xKAKCetpBQ6nd2jngic7bl+exiC0fVVw== =AP0e -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] viewing troops.mov ?
On Tue, 03 Oct 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] generated: I've grabbed hold of troops.mov from aarnet. This is Sorenson/QDMC. How to watch it ? xanim 2.80 does not (at least from the default load). Running debian 2.2, what are my options ? Zero. The sorenson codec is not being released by apple for *anything*, so you need the quicktime 4 viewer from the apple.com site. The author of xanim does write modules for xanim under NDA, but apple refuse to license it. Or apple are prevented from licensing it due to their own licensing. The bottom line is you unfortunately need 'doze to view Crocktime movies. Has anyone used the qt4 player under wine/win4lin? OTOH, I know the movie you are referring to, when I got it, there were 4 .qt files in the same directory. If you xanim troop*.qt then they splice together and are in fact the same as the .mov, only in the supported old qt format. -- No, I was looking for warez. The pornography was just a useful byproduct. -- Dave Coote -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] sendmail
Hi, I am trying to send email to a local user from some bespoke software. I can't send as a normal user but I can as root. error is The original message was received at Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:51:23 +1100 from alister@localhost - The following addresses had permanent fatal errors - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Transcript of session follows - procmail: Insufficient privileges 550 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Insufficient permission I get the same error when I use sendmail from the command line as a user but it works fine as root. I need users to be able to send mail from the command line, well the software anyway. anyone know what would cause this and how I can get around it? regards Alister Waller Technical Consultant - Roadtech Systems Ltd Phone: 02 98073516 Fax: 02 98085294 www.roadtechsystems.com.au winmail.dat
Re: [SLUG] sendmail
On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 07:02:47PM +1000, Alister Waller wrote: - Transcript of session follows - procmail: Insufficient privileges Check the permissions on procmail: [johnc@dropbear ~]$ ls -l `which procmail` -rwsr-sr-x 1 root mail58756 Apr 7 1999 /usr/bin/procmail Cheers, John -- whois [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Contract work
Are there any companies looking for contract work at the moment? I am planning to be available soon, and come through to Sydney, my father lives there...hence my preocupation with this list... I have had 3 years Linux experience, and am currenlty the E-Business project manager for the largest Linux company in Africa. Obsidian Systems TIA -- Guy Taylor Obsidian Systems Cell: 083 357 3438 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK: Available at ftp://lava.obsidian.co.za/pub/keys/guyspubkey -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] viewing troops.mov ?
At some point around Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 06:59:20PM +1100, James Wilkinson said: On Tue, 03 Oct 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] generated: I've grabbed hold of troops.mov from aarnet. This is Sorenson/QDMC. How to watch it ? xanim 2.80 does not (at least from the default load). Running debian 2.2, what are my options ? Zero. The sorenson codec is not being released by apple for *anything*, so you need the quicktime 4 viewer from the apple.com site. The author of xanim does write modules for xanim under NDA, but apple refuse to license it. Or apple are prevented from licensing it due to their own licensing. The bottom line is you unfortunately need 'doze to view Crocktime movies. Has anyone used the qt4 player under wine/win4lin? Used would be a bit strong. I tried to run it though ;-) It was about as happy as a stormtrooper being chased by an ewok (to keep with the starwars theme ;) ) OTOH, I know the movie you are referring to, when I got it, there were 4 .qt files in the same directory. If you xanim troop*.qt then they splice together and are in fact the same as the .mov, only in the supported old qt format. I have to admit to watching it on a mac... The mac in question was hooked up to a 40 inch plasma screen at the time tho, which I think justifies it ;-) -Thom -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Contract work
On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, rolyaT yuG wrote: Are there any companies looking for contract work at the moment? Do you mean companies that will find you contracting work? Why not try listing with someone like Mastec? Mikal -- -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org mQGiBDmg+g4RBACd6Th9Kpvve/8GgUQkBxVQlipENCaqC2/j5lkkcTfvqBLiIPaC 4j1u5egxql+hrotTa37jSqH6Dl/Xl7q6hVwGNqEG4YLirX/9vxd2cBWgtvDufboN y5H0ngEf0s4r8eelle/L/Sof/50LqILE6IUrIVNFmb+Vgv21dxiWCoSiEwCgqPQl YwfAjbI2aKEW2jLcoJa3kxED/A9AnhhNS9ApAeIuFbosHv6U21H0BguzXzF5hOP6 haU2M+wGdH/yE9KlfW7wzPjed1Nw53OwL8dEaxqgag1Emlc0By731AOHTX3fYy1+ dtOkPIdgqfWCvq7m5dY2UINOLs5gffAxVk09MKzqBRSTfr31sucSImJOfo1Hd2jB y83HBACGbtwJHG3kZkiHC2AiVEvZgGPDmoGCKHgyQSkLRygxTsT8klV8NOzfq44R G+7UPIEyTB542bSXSaGPq40Dt11Rrv9uAZlp+ndr/cffUKoeEH9av+o4lMPKX5Y8 YuH7u/DgzRlXJT/jIXp3SzKZ4NIankhvrVsx5rHOBd+sHmeW7LQhTWljaGFlbCBT dGlsbCA8bWlrYWxAc3RpbGxocS5jb20+iFYEExECABYFAjmg+g4ECwoEAwMVAwID FgIBAheAAAoJEJYUt9jK8d+9K/4An0oIlg7TMyBAaS87N3GxVYioa89wAJ40h2ii f++YLAaMYL+E6FWHXMhWj7kCDQQ5oP2mEAgAiwU6GEJNJnIQaAz/pXaJ685LMP+x vrIJnUhdMmrDiEypr7qJSZQLj10O2ABTZWLsFz/+/7qPJT2zKFv2VvSatV5oaoTt 7y8DDGrlg+l5atA7VmqBXfrbsjo0j2qrny5M/hYd1IO7CVPraoygqm8qoeivO4wR xg8dvBaojDTccpmVinedKDCTjkdNKOEAvkCOM10LpnzcB0aQZSnhm3w3xKgfV7Rf SaloTgK7Q4qE3Ut07whDZ3v3VD2N07xK1nFQuqYRFyQT/IzmLyIrKcjptbsqnb02 5wRv7IF5EzNcCLfRfBW2YhFwPsdpbqKSX84/9pzc9ZzkC+7CZpwP7CWmwwADBQf+ Lec8e3dezLSajoEi/WQhEAePFN10zUrrZg6hBy8117cZAc6dUZxiVJllucFzH0l/ RSMVejUq5wSWsTdgQB3BJwnW0O4wFVzP2zt56a0R3Zz4GWNAVobZtcpQe0jay4rg Zh5dWzsEkEPLVD6zKsizffD1tFVOaABCZFGTwykVp7ploWNkD7fDxgxdOVSVcv+U wTEASioNC4TSLZ+/Lh0Kb7OZwdro0xm6lqc3YKN6oQTQKX8PmpoaY42k+IYAh++v LG2JVOzg2BZ+jYlKEKAqcmPSdn7L5MsNV8SAeFZy6etC+OcQjpSzczsygT8x3xH6 uRrQn6r8Z2aCorAJaSIU64hGBBgRAgAGBQI5oP2mAAoJEJYUt9jK8d+9nU0An0G+ FkDwzOzOLtX10rzHDPAwA1xKAKCetpBQ6nd2jngic7bl+exiC0fVVw== =AP0e -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Web Sentry function under Linux
Sluggers, Just had a friend ask what's available in this area on Linux. They basically are trying to put a Linux Demand dial and masquerade gateway into a small office environment. The customer wants to see reports of site usage and I guess ban/block access to certain sites. I figure that setting up squid on the gateway's probably a pretty good step, but can I generate nice pretty graphs etc from the squid logs (using webalizer?) and what about a nice GUI to control what content is accessible? (as usual, products for NT are the touted competition, something called Web Marshall with MS-Proxy). Many TIA's Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Web Sentry function under Linux
On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Peter Rundle wrote: Sluggers, Just had a friend ask what's available in this area on Linux. They basically are trying to put a Linux Demand dial and masquerade gateway into a small office environment. The customer wants to see reports of site usage and I guess ban/block access to certain sites. Yeah, squid will block sites for you. We also push the traffic through a apache installation, and generate logs from this. The outgoing connections look something like: Netscape - Apache answering as a proxy - Squid - Big Bad Inet I am not sure if Apache is answering simply as a proxy... I think it is, with the logic being at the time that it was much easier to do user authentication with Apache (some years ago now)... Mikal -- -BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- Version: GnuPG v1.0.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org mQGiBDmg+g4RBACd6Th9Kpvve/8GgUQkBxVQlipENCaqC2/j5lkkcTfvqBLiIPaC 4j1u5egxql+hrotTa37jSqH6Dl/Xl7q6hVwGNqEG4YLirX/9vxd2cBWgtvDufboN y5H0ngEf0s4r8eelle/L/Sof/50LqILE6IUrIVNFmb+Vgv21dxiWCoSiEwCgqPQl YwfAjbI2aKEW2jLcoJa3kxED/A9AnhhNS9ApAeIuFbosHv6U21H0BguzXzF5hOP6 haU2M+wGdH/yE9KlfW7wzPjed1Nw53OwL8dEaxqgag1Emlc0By731AOHTX3fYy1+ dtOkPIdgqfWCvq7m5dY2UINOLs5gffAxVk09MKzqBRSTfr31sucSImJOfo1Hd2jB y83HBACGbtwJHG3kZkiHC2AiVEvZgGPDmoGCKHgyQSkLRygxTsT8klV8NOzfq44R G+7UPIEyTB542bSXSaGPq40Dt11Rrv9uAZlp+ndr/cffUKoeEH9av+o4lMPKX5Y8 YuH7u/DgzRlXJT/jIXp3SzKZ4NIankhvrVsx5rHOBd+sHmeW7LQhTWljaGFlbCBT dGlsbCA8bWlrYWxAc3RpbGxocS5jb20+iFYEExECABYFAjmg+g4ECwoEAwMVAwID FgIBAheAAAoJEJYUt9jK8d+9K/4An0oIlg7TMyBAaS87N3GxVYioa89wAJ40h2ii f++YLAaMYL+E6FWHXMhWj7kCDQQ5oP2mEAgAiwU6GEJNJnIQaAz/pXaJ685LMP+x vrIJnUhdMmrDiEypr7qJSZQLj10O2ABTZWLsFz/+/7qPJT2zKFv2VvSatV5oaoTt 7y8DDGrlg+l5atA7VmqBXfrbsjo0j2qrny5M/hYd1IO7CVPraoygqm8qoeivO4wR xg8dvBaojDTccpmVinedKDCTjkdNKOEAvkCOM10LpnzcB0aQZSnhm3w3xKgfV7Rf SaloTgK7Q4qE3Ut07whDZ3v3VD2N07xK1nFQuqYRFyQT/IzmLyIrKcjptbsqnb02 5wRv7IF5EzNcCLfRfBW2YhFwPsdpbqKSX84/9pzc9ZzkC+7CZpwP7CWmwwADBQf+ Lec8e3dezLSajoEi/WQhEAePFN10zUrrZg6hBy8117cZAc6dUZxiVJllucFzH0l/ RSMVejUq5wSWsTdgQB3BJwnW0O4wFVzP2zt56a0R3Zz4GWNAVobZtcpQe0jay4rg Zh5dWzsEkEPLVD6zKsizffD1tFVOaABCZFGTwykVp7ploWNkD7fDxgxdOVSVcv+U wTEASioNC4TSLZ+/Lh0Kb7OZwdro0xm6lqc3YKN6oQTQKX8PmpoaY42k+IYAh++v LG2JVOzg2BZ+jYlKEKAqcmPSdn7L5MsNV8SAeFZy6etC+OcQjpSzczsygT8x3xH6 uRrQn6r8Z2aCorAJaSIU64hGBBgRAgAGBQI5oP2mAAoJEJYUt9jK8d+9nU0An0G+ FkDwzOzOLtX10rzHDPAwA1xKAKCetpBQ6nd2jngic7bl+exiC0fVVw== =AP0e -END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK- -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Make bttv produces kernel not configed for modules -howto fix
On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Terry Collins wrote: install the kernel source in /usr/src/linux and do a make config, The problem has nothing to do with the message produced. The kernel distributed with Suse 6.4 does load modules. I can insmond/rmmod/etc with no problems. "make bttv" produces an erroneous message. Well the problem is what the message produces, just not easily interpretted. Just do a make config and enable that option so the .config file in /usr/src/linux includes loadable modules support then do a make in the modules dir. This is what it wants to see. (ie. im not asking you to install a kernel terry, and i believe you when you say your kernel supports loadable modules, and i dont agree this is a sane check by bttv) hint: if you read the makefile it references KERNEL_LOCATION=/usr/src/linux which is more than enough to work out where its looking... -- Damien -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Web Sentry function under Linux
Perhaps webmin is a useful tool to try. It has some modules that read calamaris, and can control squid acls. Dunno if its polished enough, but it may be useful. www.webmin.com/webmin dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Peter Rundle Sent: Tuesday, 3 October 2000 7:04 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SLUG] Web Sentry function under Linux Sluggers, Just had a friend ask what's available in this area on Linux. They basically are trying to put a Linux Demand dial and masquerade gateway into a small office environment. The customer wants to see reports of site usage and I guess ban/block access to certain sites. I figure that setting up squid on the gateway's probably a pretty good step, but can I generate nice pretty graphs etc from the squid logs (using webalizer?) and what about a nice GUI to control what content is accessible? (as usual, products for NT are the touted competition, something called Web Marshall with MS-Proxy). Many TIA's Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] viewing troops.mov ?
On Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 06:59:20PM +1100, James Wilkinson wrote: Has anyone used the qt4 player under wine/win4lin? CVan't say I have but I've used Media PLayer OK in Win4Lin except there is no sound. Not sure of the 2.0 beta status at all. I expect QT will work just as fine under Win4Lin. Not related but XMPS is coming along as a MPG player and you can plug a win DivX Dll into it to play DivX AVI's. Cheers, Graeme -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Make bttv produces kernel not configed for modules -howto fix
Ken Yap wrote:
I don't think this is SuSE's fault. bttv's build procedure is using a
dodgy procedure to detect if module support is available. What if I had
been building the kernel in /usr/local/src?
I've only ever had this problem with bttv anyway.
Okay, what is a non-dodgy way?
Is checking /usr/src/linux/.config a standard way?
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Re: [SLUG] viewing troops.mov ?
James Wilkinson wrote: On Tue, 03 Oct 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] generated: I've grabbed hold of troops.mov from aarnet. This is Sorenson/QDMC. How to watch it ? xanim 2.80 does not (at least from the default load). Running debian 2.2, what are my options ? Zero. The sorenson codec is not being released by apple for *anything*, so you need the quicktime 4 viewer from the apple.com site. The author of xanim does write modules for xanim under NDA, but apple refuse to license it. Or apple are prevented from licensing it due to their own licensing. The bottom line is you unfortunately need 'doze to view Crocktime movies. Their official situation i beleive is that it ships with qt. When i emailed them they suggested waiting for qt for osxserver and see if it runs on other unix's. I havent tried, but i *wonder* if you could get it going with xmps's windows dll support (even though its for avis) I got nothing on that one but i have troops in mpeg or something, as i can play it nicely in xanim. Although xanim and playting nicely are debatably contradictory, but please no flames =P Has anyone used the qt4 player under wine/win4lin? OTOH, I know the movie you are referring to, when I got it, there were 4 .qt files in the same directory. If you xanim troop*.qt then they splice together and are in fact the same as the .mov, only in the supported old qt format. It crashed and burned, although a new wine came out today. It would probably not be happy due to it using directdraw? to get good fps. Although geiss for winamp works very well for me in wine Dean -- BONG: http://www.bong.com.au EMAIL... [EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 16867613 -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Web Sentry function under Linux
I've just put one in today for a client, together with IPSec VPN. Demand dial - pppd Masquerade - ipchains Stats - webalizer (never used it myself) or rrdtool (round robin database with graphing Proxy/cache/ACL - squid (you can block banner ads also) GUI - webmin (browser based and brilliant) Who needs NT? -- Howard. __ LANNet Computing Associates http://www.lannet.com.au On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Peter Rundle wrote: Sluggers, Just had a friend ask what's available in this area on Linux. They basically are trying to put a Linux Demand dial and masquerade gateway into a small office environment. The customer wants to see reports of site usage and I guess ban/block access to certain sites. I figure that setting up squid on the gateway's probably a pretty good step, but can I generate nice pretty graphs etc from the squid logs (using webalizer?) and what about a nice GUI to control what content is accessible? (as usual, products for NT are the touted competition, something called Web Marshall with MS-Proxy). Many TIA's Pete -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
this is not really worth discussing but i was reading LWN and saw this: http://lwn.net/2000/0928/backpage.php3 (you'll need to scroll right to the bottom of it) later marty "I can't buy what I want because it's free. Can't be what they want because I'm me." - Corduroy, Pearl Jam -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
No offence but I agree with article. I have felt very let down, as since the wonderful potato has come, they have left slink high and dry. I have 1 slink box, and currently it is in a poor state. Mainly due to the lack of support on the mirror ftp's that carry slink package tree. It has got to the point, that next week, I have scheduled to be onsite to rebuild the machine onto Debian 2.2, as I dare not run the upgrade. I'd sooner rebuild it and be sure it will work for months on end. If and when woody does become the offical release, and if potato then becomes how can I say, lacking in maintance. I am sure I will be moving any such machines I admin, and future machines over to something else. I'd dare say, a BSD OS of sorts. Either FreeBSD or OpenBSD. Well it is late, and I think I should be getting back to sleep. But I just couldn't resist stating something that is bugging me recently. Anyone else have similar feelings with the state of Debian these days. As much as I love Debian, I am loosing interest/faith rather quickly. michael -Original Message- From: marty [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, 3 October 2000 9:23 Subject: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN this is not really worth discussing but i was reading LWN and saw this: http://lwn.net/2000/0928/backpage.php3 (you'll need to scroll right to the bottom of it) later marty "I can't buy what I want because it's free. Can't be what they want because I'm me." - Corduroy, Pearl Jam -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
At some point around Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 11:28:13PM +1000, Michael Fox said: No offence but I agree with article. I have felt very let down, as since the wonderful potato has come, they have left slink high and dry. I have 1 slink box, and currently it is in a poor state. Mainly due to the lack of support on the mirror ftp's that carry slink package tree. It has got to the point, that next week, I have scheduled to be onsite to rebuild the machine onto Debian 2.2, as I dare not run the upgrade. I'd sooner rebuild it and be sure it will work for months on end. Why dare not run the upgrade? Have I missed something? So, they've stopped releasing bug fixes etc. This is entirely normal for an older release - it went stable fricking ages ago... I sent three machines on the slink-potato trip last week, and they are all perfectly happy. I'll even admit to doing one remotely, cos I really dislike the client g If and when woody does become the offical release, and if potato then becomes how can I say, lacking in maintance. I am sure I will be moving any such machines I admin, and future machines over to something else. I'd dare say, a BSD OS of sorts. Either FreeBSD or OpenBSD. Why? Give reasons! All you are doing here is FUDing on a Microsoftian level because they aren't releasing Security Fixes, for a release that was superceded two months ago, in the entirely reasonable expectation that you will upgrade, *for free* to the new release! Well it is late, and I think I should be getting back to sleep. But I just couldn't resist stating something that is bugging me recently. Anyone else have similar feelings with the state of Debian these days. Well, I don't. And I'm pretty sure that there are "several" others on this list that will agree with me. As much as I love Debian, I am loosing interest/faith rather quickly. Poor you. I have no idea where else you will be getting the level of support and quality software that Debian provides. -Thom -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Michael Fox wrote:
..snip...
As much as I love Debian, I am loosing interest/faith rather quickly.
I've used/use Redhat, Caldera, Turbolinux and Suse and they all seem to
have their problems.
It hasn't mattered which distro/version I've purchased, they have all
been superceeded before they get onto my hard disks (except the SLUG
version of TL {:-)
My interest in Debian is that it seems to be the users/developers that
are driving it, not shareholders.
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
snail: PO Box 1047, Campbelltown, NSW 2560.
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
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Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Tue, 03 Oct 2000, marty generated: this is not really worth discussing Too late :) http://lwn.net/2000/0928/backpage.php3 This is utter crap. "Debian is crap because the people who volunteer their time to maintaining it are refusing to provide security updates to old software that has been superceded." Firstly, slink is OLD. There is no question that potato versions of the same software not only contain the security updates that were in slink, but because potato is *newer*, other security holes will undoubtedly be closed. I bet the authors of the year+ old software in slink aren't actively supporting it. Second, why have package maintainers plug holes in old code, when their work is almost certainly being duplicated by everyone working on the latest release? It seems like an enormous waste of time and effort. Anyone serious about security on their machines isn't using a distro from that long a time ago. -- No, I was looking for warez. The pornography was just a useful byproduct. -- Dave Coote -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Thom May wrote:
...snip.
Why dare not run the upgrade? Have I missed something? So,
they've stopped releasing bug fixes etc. This is entirely normal
for an older release - it went stable fricking ages ago... I
sent three machines on the slink-potato trip last week, and they
are all perfectly happy.
As a guess, I think Michael was alluding to the RH style where they
continue to release fixes for older versions. However, I expect that
Debian doesn't have the personnell assets that RH has.
...snip
for a release that was superceded two months ago,
in the entirely reasonable expectation that you will upgrade,
*for free* to the new release!
Is this a reasonable expectation?
That really declares Debian as a distro only for "professionals"
TANSTAAFL!
My experience in upgrades is such that I never upgrade now, unless the
machine it totally sacrificial and I have time to waste. Too many
"upgrades" have gone belly up. I'm yet to experience a debian upgrade,
but don't see how it will be different to other distro's.
As much as I love Debian, I am loosing interest/faith rather quickly.
Poor you. I have no idea where else you will be getting the
level of support and quality software that Debian provides.
I'm not so religious. My bottom line is that my computers are like my
car - another work tool. They don't exist so I can spend my time
upgrading them, but rather so I can push work through them to earn
income. Time spent rebuilding a system is lost income.
Time spent having to "upgrade" regularly is also lost income from a
business sense as it pushes the support cost higher. The benefit of
supporting older versions is that it drives the support costs down from
a business viewpoint. I guess it depends on how you see Linux achieving
world domination {:-).
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
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Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
At some point around Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 11:24:50PM +1100, Terry Collins said:
Thom May wrote:
...snip.
Why dare not run the upgrade? Have I missed something? So,
they've stopped releasing bug fixes etc. This is entirely normal
for an older release - it went stable fricking ages ago... I
sent three machines on the slink-potato trip last week, and they
are all perfectly happy.
As a guess, I think Michael was alluding to the RH style where they
continue to release fixes for older versions. However, I expect that
Debian doesn't have the personnell assets that RH has.
It also has an entirely different upgrade path - ie:
RHAT - oooh, need to upgrade! back everything up, floor box,
rebuild from scratch, reinstall all custom stuff etc...
Debian - `apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade`
...snip
for a release that was superceded two months ago,
in the entirely reasonable expectation that you will upgrade,
*for free* to the new release!
Is this a reasonable expectation?
That really declares Debian as a distro only for "professionals"
TANSTAAFL!
How does it? When the upgrade path is as easy as debian's it
makes no sense whatsoever to not upgrade. Slink was released in
1999, early thereof, if I remember rightly. RHAT has gone from
(at least) 6.0 - 6.2 in the same time, and if you need to change
versions, you need to upgrade.
My experience in upgrades is such that I never upgrade now, unless the
machine it totally sacrificial and I have time to waste. Too many
"upgrades" have gone belly up. I'm yet to experience a debian upgrade,
but don't see how it will be different to other distro's.
trust me. debian and anyotherupgrade are not the same. I
"upgrade" my distro, every night, on Cron. I'm entirely happy to
allow this, because it works.
As much as I love Debian, I am loosing interest/faith rather quickly.
Poor you. I have no idea where else you will be getting the
level of support and quality software that Debian provides.
I'm not so religious. My bottom line is that my computers are like my
car - another work tool. They don't exist so I can spend my time
upgrading them, but rather so I can push work through them to earn
income. Time spent rebuilding a system is lost income.
Time spent having to "upgrade" regularly is also lost income from a
business sense as it pushes the support cost higher. The benefit of
supporting older versions is that it drives the support costs down from
a business viewpoint. I guess it depends on how you see Linux achieving
world domination {:-).
See comments earlier ;)
But honestly - no time is lost, no need for single user,
reboots, etc - it works dynamically.
see: http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-uptodate.html
cheers
thom
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Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Chuck Dale wrote: I would prefer to upgrade because there was a feature I needed in the new release rather than because the version I'm running had been "superceded". *This* would have to be the "Microsoftian" lie, that you need to upgrade just because there's a new version. Look at slink. Look at potato. They're not Windows 98 - Windows 98 SE. In this case, you're doing yourself a disservice by not upgrading. The amount of new features and software alone is worth the upgrade, but also the fact that with your upgrade, comes support. I strongly doubt that the upstream authors of the software in slink are supporting such old versions. Whilst the adage, "upgrade only when you must" is good to live by, you have to balance it with reality. It's been out Two Months and it's superceded?? No matter how good Debian is, there are still going to be less problems introduced by not upgrading than by upgrading. Always, or for small values thereof? Yet I found more and more people running even older versions that were still extremely stable and secure. They released security vulnerabilities and that was the only necessary upgrade. This is exactly what you get with Debian stable (currently potato). slink is getting *very* long in the tooth now, and the amount of work required to support it - think *backpatching* for pete's sake! - is worth sacrificing for work on the stable release, which, given the way Debian works, is what users *ought* to be running. "In the red corner we have an old release, mostly unsupported by it's upstream authors, containing software so lacking in features compared to today's releases it's laughable. "In the blue corner we have a stable, tested release, containing conservatively new and widely tested software still maintained by upstream authors. "Refereeing the match tonight is an elegant upgrade system, online support, and countless volunteer maintainers looking to make their - and your - OS the best they can... "FIGHT!" - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- Ye shall be cursed to fall in love so easily, and yet be so cold of heart as never to express it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Tue, 03 Oct 2000, Terry Collins generated: My experience in upgrades is such that I never upgrade now, unless the machine it totally sacrificial and I have time to waste. Too many "upgrades" have gone belly up. I'm yet to experience a debian upgrade, but don't see how it will be different to other distro's. ISTR Jeff once saying that (badly paraphrasing here) the way Debian works is that its not one fixed thing for each revision of the distro. Once you've played with apt, you realise that updating (which is a much better word than upgrade when you're in debian-land) is incredibly simple and it's the job of the maintainers to make sure that these updates go as smoothly as possible. Maybe I've been in debian-land for too long, but as updating for me is such a non-issue, I see no reason to not do it -- especially as newer versions are the ones that are actively supported. IMHO, the crux of the issue is that we're dealing with open sourced, not proprietary, software. OSS is constantly evolving, so patches and fixes come out faster than PS. I'm not making a point about development models, or upgrade paths, but you can't say on one hand you refuse to upgrade your server, and on the other hand say you want your security updates. Surely the mention of the word "update" would raise the cluon flux enough to realise that you're going to have to modify the system. /rant -- No, I was looking for warez. The pornography was just a useful byproduct. -- Dave Coote -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Firstly, slink is OLD. There is no question that potato versions of the same software not only contain the security updates that were in slink, but because potato is *newer*, other security holes will undoubtedly be closed. I bet the authors of the year+ old software in slink aren't Why do you equate newer will less security holes ? Jason -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Terry Collins wrote:
As a guess, I think Michael was alluding to the RH style where they
continue to release fixes for older versions. However, I expect that
Debian doesn't have the personnell assets that RH has.
Methinks you underestimate distributed development, Terry. :)
for a release that was superceded two months ago,
in the entirely reasonable expectation that you will upgrade,
*for free* to the new release!
Is this a reasonable expectation?
That really declares Debian as a distro only for "professionals"
TANSTAAFL!
One of your longer acronyms I don't understand... You could be our acronyms
page maintainer! ;)
It's a reasonable expectation for many reasons, the first being that Debian
doesn't operate the same way other distributions do. It's an iterative
process, and widely tested amongst developers and users alike.
slink is also hopelessly old. :)
My experience in upgrades is such that I never upgrade now, unless the
machine it totally sacrificial and I have time to waste. Too many
"upgrades" have gone belly up. I'm yet to experience a debian upgrade,
but don't see how it will be different to other distro's.
Hmm. Wonder if I can make it out to MacLUG to give a demonstration...
Debian's different. It's easy. Scarily so. That's why it's hard to shut up
newly impressed users like me, who can't believe what an incredible OS,
community, and ethos they've found.
Time spent having to "upgrade" regularly is also lost income from a
business sense as it pushes the support cost higher. The benefit of
supporting older versions is that it drives the support costs down from
a business viewpoint. I guess it depends on how you see Linux achieving
world domination {:-).
The famous quote from Jamie Zawinski goes like this: "Linux is only free if
your time has no value." A classic example of jwz's ruthless sarcasm, but at
least he's not poking himself in the eye with some of the idealistic tripe
that comes out of Slashdot every now and then.
I used to spend a great deal of time fart-arsing around installing packages,
finding the missing dependencies, configuring things, making sure it did
everything I wanted. Now I don't. I spend about a quarter of the time on
basic system administration than I used to.
Why?
I'll give you an example. Recently, I installed wwwoffle on a Red Hat
machine for simple small office caching (I used wwwoffle because it has a
lot of cute little features and doesn't require as much memory Squid). I
installed the RPM, and got it up and running.
Every time I went to a page whilst using the cache though, it showed me it's
"Mark this page for later download" page. A quick read of the wwwoffle docs
showed that you needed to tell it when you were online and off, so I simply
changed the ppp scripts. I also had to modify the configuration so it only
allowed connections from the local network. Plus, ntsysv'ed and set it to
run on startup. Done.
At home, on my Debian gateway? I installed the package. Done.
This is even more apparent with more complex packages, plus you get both
upstream and Debian documentation in /usr/share/doc/, so you know what's
going on if you need to.
Rot your brain^W^W^WSave time for the important stuff.
- Jeff
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Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Wed, 04 Oct 2000, Jason Rennie generated: Firstly, slink is OLD. There is no question that potato versions of the same software not only contain the security updates that were in slink, but because potato is *newer*, other security holes will undoubtedly be closed. I bet the authors of the year+ old software in slink aren't Why do you equate newer will less security holes ? I don't. I equate 'actively-maintained' with 'a lower probability of security holes'. Given a program that is being actively developed (read: security holes are being found and patched), you can backport the security patches to the old code, but this can be more of a hassle (bugs, may open more holes). To fix a hole can require a bit of work sometimes. In many cases it is easier to upgrade to the newer version to fix a hole than it is to try to patch the old version. -- No, I was looking for warez. The pornography was just a useful byproduct. -- Dave Coote -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
James Wilkinson wrote: Maybe I've been in debian-land for too long, but as updating for me is such a non-issue, I see no reason to not do it -- especially as newer versions are the ones that are actively supported. *However*, whilst it's all sweet and easy to do all these things in Debian, you still have to be informed. As with any software (cars even, not that I know much about cars), read the release notes of every version, find out what's changed, make sure you know about things that effect you. The Debian maintainers can only do so much - you have to know what's appropriate for you. Keep your servers on stable, and get on the mailing lists to hear what's going on. Of course, on your home machine, buy the latest hardware, run ridiculously bleeding-edge kernels - preferably with obscure performance enhancing patches that probably to more harm than good - Wine in the kernel? Must see. httpd daemon in the kernel? I'm listening - compile everything from CVS (if you don't do this, you're just not trying) and run a different filesystem on every *partition*. Oh, and you might want to think about backing up both. Just in case. - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- Ye shall be cursed to fall in love so easily, and yet be so cold of heart as never to express it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Wrote Jeff Waugh on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 12:44:51AM +1100: Chuck Dale wrote: I would prefer to upgrade because there was a feature I needed in the new release rather than because the version I'm running had been "superceded". *This* would have to be the "Microsoftian" lie, that you need to upgrade just because there's a new version. Look at slink. Look at potato. They're not Windows 98 - Windows 98 SE. In this case, you're doing yourself a disservice by not upgrading. The amount of new features and software alone is worth the upgrade, but also the fact that with your upgrade, comes support. I strongly doubt that the upstream authors of the software in slink are supporting such old versions. Whilst the adage, "upgrade only when you must" is good to live by, you have to balance it with reality. And the new security holes introduced by new features? New bugs? Never! I forgot, Debian defies traditional software engineering concerns. Perhaps there are new features that would be useful. If there are, then upgrade. Don't upgrade just because of some general belief that there are so many new features and software packages that you're losing out by not upgrading. It's a good point that if upstream authors are not supporting such versions then it would be time to upgrade. With FreeBSD however, old packages seem to be supported for a much longer time than with Debian/Linux. It's been out Two Months and it's superceded?? No matter how good Debian is, there are still going to be less problems introduced by not upgrading than by upgrading. Always, or for small values thereof? If I'm not upgrading then I can't have a problem. Yes? Chuck [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Wed, 04 Oct 2000, Chuck Dale generated: And the new security holes introduced by new features? New bugs? Never! [snip] Perhaps there are new features that would be useful. If there are, then upgrade. Don't upgrade just because of some general belief that there are so many new features and software packages that you're losing out by not upgrading. [snip] If I'm not upgrading then I can't have a problem. Yes? The url referenced was talking about security updates. The theory goes that you're upgrading *because* you have a problem. Security updates tend to not introduce new features, partly because they don't want to introduce new bugs, but mainly because they are stomping existing bugs. The need to upgrade IMHO is a different topic altogether. I agree totally that if it ain't broke don't fix it. But my point remains: if you care about security on your system you will find it *is* broke, and you need to fix it. -- No, I was looking for warez. The pornography was just a useful byproduct. -- Dave Coote -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
James Wilkinson wrote: In many cases it is easier to upgrade to the newer version to fix a hole than it is to try to patch the old version. This is an important issue with the slink vs. potato debate, and I mentioned it quickly (but loudly) in another post. Potato isn't brand-spanking new itself. It's been in use for a long time already - the development of Debian is incremental, as much so as the end-user updating we always harp on about. The question of maintainership is whether to support the conservatively new release with easily patchable software, or a very old release that you'd have to backport security fixes onto. It's an easy decision in my mind. Don't believe the hype - Debian isn't cool because you have some whizzbang, automated upgrading system, that's merely the icing on the cake. *Every* distribution requires updates, Debian simply had a simple, time-saving means of doing this before the others - but they're quickly catching up. Debian has *all* the advantages of the 'Open Source' methodology, applied to the creation of a complete operating system environment. That's the critical difference. apt is software. Debian is people. (He says, having trouble restraining laughter... Maybe I should just start dropping pamplets after all.) - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- Ye shall be cursed to fall in love so easily, and yet be so cold of heart as never to express it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Chuck Dale wrote: And the new security holes introduced by new features? New bugs? Never! Bugs in the distribution, or the software? It makes little difference. potato contains *conservatively* new software. Not bleeding edge. It's been tried and tested upstream and within the iterative development process of 'unstable'. Certainly, after going through that, most distribution bugs will be sorted out. That much use would (again hopefully) indicate decent testing of the actual software. sarcasm Whilst I'm fond of my old BBC 6502-based computer, retrospectively, I'm glad I made the decision to upgrade. I have had a number of security problems, mostly related to the fact that this new machine has features such as an 'ethernet network interface card', a 'floppy drive' and a 'CD-ROM drive', but on the whole, I'm quite happy with them. I can play ogg files on this as well, which is pretty handy. /sarcasm I forgot, Debian defies traditional software engineering concerns. Dude, this is Free Software. Find your own phone booth to change in. ;) Perhaps there are new features that would be useful. If there are, then upgrade. Don't upgrade just because of some general belief that there are so many new features and software packages that you're losing out by not upgrading. Please read my other posts, specifically the one about 'staying informed'. No matter how good Debian is, there are still going to be less problems introduced by not upgrading than by upgrading. Always, or for small values thereof? If I'm not upgrading then I can't have a problem. Yes? Well, for a start, you're going to be back-porting security fixes yourself! - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- Ye shall be cursed to fall in love so easily, and yet be so cold of heart as never to express it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Wrote Jeff Waugh on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:37:24AM +1100: Chuck Dale wrote: And the new security holes introduced by new features? New bugs? Never! Bugs in the distribution, or the software? It makes little difference. potato contains *conservatively* new software. Not bleeding edge. It's been tried and tested upstream and within the iterative development process of 'unstable'. Certainly, after going through that, most distribution bugs will be sorted out. That much use would (again hopefully) indicate decent testing of the actual software. Bleeding edge, whatever, new features introduce new bugs that didn't exist before. The Debian wonder-machine might find most of them. No matter how good Debian is, there are still going to be less problems introduced by not upgrading than by upgrading. Always, or for small values thereof? If I'm not upgrading then I can't have a problem. Yes? Well, for a start, you're going to be back-porting security fixes yourself! With Debian, yes, looks like it. Chuck [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Wed, 04 Oct 2000, Chuck Dale generated: Bleeding edge, whatever, new features introduce new bugs that didn't exist before. The Debian wonder-machine might find most of them. Given that potato spent a good part of 18 months before earning the stamp of 'stable', you can safely assume that the Debian wonder-machine has stomped on most of the bugs and that an upgrade from slink to potato isn't going to break anything. And given the helpful nature of the debian package configurators, you can immediately correct any false assumptions the configurator may have made before the package gets installed and the new software runs. You hook up to the net, or get the latest CD, and apt does the rest. There may be new bugs, but they aren't of the software-blowing-up-and-trashing-your-disk variety. 3 weeks ago at work I was asked to install a new proxy machine. I got out a machine that had slink on it, but had not been touched (no power, nothing) for over 5 months. I told apt to upgrade to potato, and to use the security repository. I didn't expect it to work, because I hadn't touched the machine for so long, yet the upgrade went smoothly, upgrading exim, squid and bind, and none of them broke from the config I had created 5 months ago. With Debian, yes, looks like it. Hmm, not from any of my machines. -- No, I was looking for warez. The pornography was just a useful byproduct. -- Dave Coote -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Wrote James Wilkinson on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 02:25:51AM +1100: [..] 3 weeks ago at work I was asked to install a new proxy machine. I got out a machine that had slink on it, but had not been touched (no power, nothing) for over 5 months. I told apt to upgrade to potato, and to use the security repository. I didn't expect it to work, because I hadn't touched the machine for so long, yet the upgrade went smoothly, upgrading exim, squid and bind, and none of them broke from the config I had created 5 months ago. With Debian, yes, looks like it. Hmm, not from any of my machines. Ok! Fine! Debian wins again! As usual! =) I'm sufficiently convinced that potato is so much better than slink that to stay slinking would be silly. Hey and I've never even run slink except for a few moments after installing it from the LinuxCare disk before apt came to the rescue. Chuck [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Security Vulnerability Scanners
You could try 'Shields Up', it is software for windows but the online probe might do what yo want: https://grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 I want to demonstrate that a particular (linux) system is vunerable so I can try to get something done about it. According to netstat -a the following TCP ports are listening for connections: 1700, 1025, echo, discard, daytime, chargen, ftp, telnet, gopher, shell, login, exec, pop2, pop3, imap2, uucp, finger, socks, sunrpc, 661, 7201, 7200, www, 6000. and when you combine that with the fact it's a 2.0.X linux system that has never had any security patches or updates installed, and that all these ports are available to the internet with a fixed IP, I'm pretty sure that there's a security vulnerability or two in there somewhere. Can anyone recommend a good security vulnerability scanner that can generate a nice list of vulnerabilities that I can use to try and get permission to do something about this? Either a program that installs onto the system being tested or something that can do it remotly would do. - Doug -- _ Network Operations Engineer - Big Pond Advance Satellite Ericsson Australia - Level 5, 184 The Broadway, Sydney 2000 Ph: +61-416-085-390 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug -- Simon Bryan[EMAIL PROTECTED] Information Technology Manager [EMAIL PROTECTED] OLMC Parramatta -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
TANSTAAFL! What the hell does that mean? :-/ dave -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Quoting Thom May [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It also has an entirely different upgrade path - ie: RHAT - oooh, need to upgrade! back everything up, floor box, rebuild from scratch, reinstall all custom stuff etc... Debian - `apt-get update apt-get dist-upgrade` Try running non-standard packages... ie.. qmail-src etc installed. 2 machines I had broke very bad when I upgraded. Although without qmail-src installed/setup, the machines upgraded fine. That is of course only one example, but I have had strange things happen in the slink - potato upgrade. Although, I ended up grabbing a beta cycle potato cd set a few months back, built the machine on those, and just kept apt-get updating the packages installed. Never had problems since. - This mail sent through IMP: utopia.mafnet.com -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Dave Kempe wrote:
TANSTAAFL!
What the hell does that mean? :-/
There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Sheez - newbies {:-)
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
snail: PO Box 1047, Campbelltown, NSW 2560.
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
--
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More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Jeff Waugh wrote:
...snip.
My experience in upgrades is such that I never upgrade now, unless the
machine it totally sacrificial and I have time to waste. Too many
"upgrades" have gone belly up. I'm yet to experience a debian upgrade,
but don't see how it will be different to other distro's.
Hmm. Wonder if I can make it out to MacLUG to give a demonstration...
Debian's different. It's easy. Scarily so. That's why it's hard to shut up
newly impressed users like me, who can't believe what an incredible OS,
community, and ethos they've found.
Well, we could have SPUDs as the theme for November.
Jeff can show the Linux Debian variety and I could show King Edward,
Kipfler, Nicola and Toolangi Delight varieties (SWMBO went a bit over
the top with ordering this year), although it would be better for
January when we usually dig them.
Any interest?
{:-) Okay, I apologise. I'll go back to do my GST statements now.
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
snail: PO Box 1047, Campbelltown, NSW 2560.
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
TANSTAASQ :P
dave
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 6:42 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Dave Kempe; Thom May; Jeff Waugh
Subject: Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Dave Kempe wrote:
TANSTAAFL!
What the hell does that mean? :-/
There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
Sheez - newbies {:-)
--
Terry Collins {:-)}}} Ph(02) 4627 2186 Fax(02) 4628 7861
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: http://www.woa.com.au
or [EMAIL PROTECTED]
WOA Computer Services lan/wan, linux/unix, novell
snail: PO Box 1047, Campbelltown, NSW 2560.
"People without trees are like fish without clean water"
--
SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/
More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Dave Kempe wrote: TANSTAAFL! What the hell does that mean? :-/ You never read Heinlein? There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. TANSTAAFL! DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Web Sentry function under Linux
Peter Rundle writes: Sluggers, Just had a friend ask what's available in this area on Linux. They basically are trying to put a Linux Demand dial and masquerade gateway into a small office environment. The customer wants to see reports of site usage and I guess ban/block access to certain sites. try squid, squidguard and mrtg, they will do this very nicely. with a couple of little scripts and a bit of php you can change the filters on the fly. Bart -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 09:00:23AM +1100, DaZZa wrote: On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Dave Kempe wrote: TANSTAAFL! What the hell does that mean? :-/ You never read Heinlein? There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. TANSTAAFL! Heinlein is required reading for proto-geeks... -- Andrew -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] tar extract - out of time_t
Hi all, Does anyone know what this error message from a tar archive means? There is nothing in the man pages for tar on this. tar xvf rsnsw.tar studentships.html style_guide.html tar: Archive value 2872975643983 is out of time_t range -2147483648..2147483647 talks_2000/ talks_2000/talk_Blank.html ...etc... tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors It occurs for both t and x tar options. Is it complaining about some problem with a time stamp perhaps? The archive itself seems to have extracted OK. Mike -- Michael Lake University of Technology, Sydney Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 URL: http://www.science.uts.edu.au/~michael-lake/ Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] tar extract - out of time_t
Does anyone know what this error message from a tar archive means? There is nothing in the man pages for tar on this. tar xvf rsnsw.tar studentships.html style_guide.html tar: Archive value 2872975643983 is out of time_t range -2147483648..2147483647 talks_2000/ talks_2000/talk_Blank.html ...etc... tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors It occurs for both t and x tar options. Is it complaining about some problem with a time stamp perhaps? The archive itself seems to have extracted OK. My guess is that the tar format has been extended to 64-bit timestamps but the upper 32 bits of timestamps in the archive (possibly created by an older tar?) contain garbage which trigger this warning. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] tar extract - out of time_t
Ken Yap wrote: Does anyone know what this error message from a tar archive means? There is nothing in the man pages for tar on this. tar xvf rsnsw.tar tar: Archive value 2872975643983 is out of time_t range -2147483648..2147483647 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors My guess is that the tar format has been extended to 64-bit timestamps but the upper 32 bits of timestamps in the archive (possibly created by an older tar?) contain garbage which trigger this warning. Um... Debian? I normally tar files at home on the Alpha (64bit) and untar them to my Intel box here at work. I have not had any probs before and the ONLY change is that this is the first time that I have done this since "upgrading" to Debian at home from RedHat. I can check the version of tar at home on my Debian Alpha tonight. The verson used here on the Intel is GNU tar 1.13.17 Mike -- Michael Lake University of Technology, Sydney Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 02 9514 1724 Fx: 02 9514 1628 URL: http://www.science.uts.edu.au/~michael-lake/ Linux enthusiast, active caver and interested in anything technical. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Dave Kempe wrote: TANSTAAFL! What the hell does that mean? :-/ You never read Heinlein? There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. TANSTAAFL! DaZZa I have read Heinlein for the record :P enjoyed all I have read muchly. guess i just didn't join the dots. dave -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Oddball ADSL Question
Hi all, I'm trying to get ADSL running on an openbsd box (this isn`t the question only the situatin), and i'm having a few hassles. I have a hub, and i want to connect 2 machines to the hub, and plug the adsl modem into the hub. Would i then be able to get ADSL to dial out form one of the machines at a time ? That way i can try one, if it doens't work, bring up the working link. Or am i doomed ? Jason -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Oddball ADSL Question
On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Jason Rennie wrote: I have a hub, and i want to connect 2 machines to the hub, and plug the adsl modem into the hub. Usually, the best way to do this (similarly to cable) is to have one machine as the proxy/firewall, etc. The other machine(s) to sit on the private network behind your proxy machine. Would i then be able to get ADSL to dial out form one of the machines at a time ? That way i can try one, if it doens't work, bring up the working link. Or am i doomed ? Should be theoretically possible, given that you need to have the standby machine off or at least the ADSL side the interface down. tom. Consultant AUSSECPhone: 61 4 1768 2202 339 Blaxland Rd., Ryde NSW 2112 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Oddball ADSL Question
I have a hub, and i want to connect 2 machines to the hub, and plug the adsl modem into the hub. Usually, the best way to do this (similarly to cable) is to have one machine as the proxy/firewall, etc. The other machine(s) to sit on the private network behind your proxy machine. They both have nic's, i wanted to do it so that i could test one machine, and if it failed bring up the link on the other one without having to do a lot of farting around replugging connections. Currently to do test, i have to bring the link down (which cahnges the ip when i reconnect) and while the link is down my mail server is unreachable (local mail server that is), and this is obviously a problem. I don't wish to cause mail bounces intenntionally. So i was looking for aquick (temp) way to switch between the two. Jason -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Thom May wrote: At some point around Tue, Oct 03, 2000 at 11:28:13PM +1000, Michael Fox said: No offence but I agree with article. I have felt very let down, as since the wonderful potato has come, they have left slink high and dry. I have 1 slink box, and currently it is in a poor state. Mainly due to the lack of support on the mirror ftp's that carry slink package tree. It has got to the point, that next week, I have scheduled to be onsite to rebuild the machine onto Debian 2.2, as I dare not run the upgrade. I'd sooner rebuild it and be sure it will work for months on end. Why dare not run the upgrade? Have I missed something? So, they've stopped releasing bug fixes etc. This is entirely normal for an older release - it went stable fricking ages ago... I sent three machines on the slink-potato trip last week, and they are all perfectly happy. I'll even admit to doing one remotely, cos I really dislike the client g If and when woody does become the offical release, and if potato then becomes how can I say, lacking in maintance. I am sure I will be moving any such machines I admin, and future machines over to something else. I'd dare say, a BSD OS of sorts. Either FreeBSD or OpenBSD. Why? Give reasons! All you are doing here is FUDing on a Microsoftian level because they aren't releasing Security Fixes, for a release that was superceded two months ago, in the entirely reasonable expectation that you will upgrade, *for free* to the new release! Actually Debian will be releasing security fixes for Slink for a while longer, due to popular demand. However, Debian will ultimately stop supporting Slink, which is entirely reasonable. Does Red Hat continue updating old versions of their software years after they are released? No. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Re: [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:15:33AM +1100, Chuck Dale wrote: Perhaps there are new features that would be useful. If there are, then upgrade. Don't upgrade just because of some general belief that there are so many new features and software packages that you're losing out by not upgrading. i think "apt-get source -b package" needs to be mentioned here somewhere.. that will download the source for a particular package, extract it and compile it using your current system. ie: you get php4 (to pick a piece of "latest fluff") compiled against whatever libraries were current on your distribution. if it doesn't compile cleanly (except for build dependencies, you need a newer apt for that ;) its a pretty serious (to debian at least) bug against the package. i use it fairly often when i need features from unstable on stable (eg: newer x server). if you have many machines, its pretty straightforward to setup your own apt'able repository of packages, compiled just how you like them. It's a good point that if upstream authors are not supporting such versions then it would be time to upgrade. With FreeBSD however, old packages seem to be supported for a much longer time than with Debian/Linux. interesting, given that its usually the same software anyway, and i would have thought the freebsd development and user community were smaller than the debian and linux communities. how far back do freebsd support packages? and do they fix problems by offering a newer version of the package, or backporting each and every fix? -- - Gus -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Re: tar extract - out of time_t
On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 09:58:24PM +1100, Michael Lake wrote: Ken Yap wrote: My guess is that the tar format has been extended to 64-bit timestamps but the upper 32 bits of timestamps in the archive (possibly created by an older tar?) contain garbage which trigger this warning. i've no idea what the "--old-archive" and "--posix" options do, but they exist ;) (i can't imagine why debian and redhat would have incompatible tar versions tho.. you haven't managed to corrupt the tar file in some way?) -- - Gus -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Oddball ADSL Question
Jason Rennie wrote: Hi all, I have a hub, and i want to connect 2 machines to the hub, and plug the adsl modem into the hub. It would be better to have the ADSL connect to one machine, with another NIC in that machine connected to the hub. This makes it easier to do thing like firewalling and masqurading, and eliminates the chance of the ADSL modem forward packets from your local (private) LAN to the internet. Network cards are cheap, and this way there's no chance of your ADSL provider noticing you have a LAN connected to the service, as well as making it easier to setup and maintain the configuration at your end. ObDisclaimer: These are my opinions, not my companies etc. -- _ Network Operations Engineer - Big Pond Advance Satellite Ericsson Australia - Level 5, 184 The Broadway, Sydney 2000 Ph: +61-416-085-390 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] Re: [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
I don't know about FreeBSD but a certain other Unix supplier is keeping up-to-date free patches for the last 15 releases of its OS (actually 6 or 7 releases on two or three hardware platforms with at least two different package managers). A Debian equivalent would be to offer security patches for all official releases, maybe going back about 5 or 6 years. I haven't seen this sort of offering from any of the popular Linux distros, well not yet anyway. It's probably an expensive "free service". - Jill. ___ Jill Rowling Snr Design Engineer Unix System Administrator Electronic Engineering Department, Aristocrat Technologies Australia 3rd Floor, 77 Dunning Ave Rosebery NSW 2018 Phone: (02) 9697-4484 Fax:(02) 9663-1412 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Angus Lees [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 13:34 how far back do freebsd support packages? and do they fix problems by offering a newer version of the package, or backporting each and every fix? -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, David Kempe wrote: TANSTAAFL! What the hell does that mean? :-/ You never read Heinlein? There Aint No Such Thing As A Free Lunch. TANSTAAFL! DaZZa I have read Heinlein for the record :P enjoyed all I have read muchly. guess i just didn't join the dots. Get thee immediately to Galaxy Bookshop, purchase a copy of "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", and read ASAP. :-) Debatably the best novel Heinlein ever wrote. ObLinux: Would Linux cope with an AI the scale of Mike Holmes? DaZZa -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
RE: [SLUG] [OT] TANSTAAFL!
From: DaZZa [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, David Kempe wrote: TANSTAAFL! ObLinux: Would Linux cope with an AI the scale of Mike Holmes? Would not scale. Can imagine self asking permission to format new disk... Can imagine answer. ENV=C I wondered at the time that Heinlein had been looking at PDP-11 front panels. That's the only thing that struck me as odd in his description when I re-read the book a couple of years ago. Then again, when the books were written, it was necessary to have flashing lights on front panels. How else could you read the register values? [ try 7773000 G ] ___ Jill Rowling Snr Design Engineer Unix System Administrator Electronic Engineering Department, Aristocrat Technologies Australia 3rd Floor, 77 Dunning Ave Rosebery NSW 2018 Phone: (02) 9697-4484 Fax:(02) 9663-1412 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Re: [OT] Debian Flame on LWN
Wrote Angus Lees on Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:33:58PM +1100: On Wed, Oct 04, 2000 at 01:15:33AM +1100, Chuck Dale wrote: Perhaps there are new features that would be useful. If there are, then upgrade. Don't upgrade just because of some general belief that there are so many new features and software packages that you're losing out by not upgrading. i think "apt-get source -b package" needs to be mentioned here somewhere.. Mm nice, I'll have to use that. It's a good point that if upstream authors are not supporting such versions then it would be time to upgrade. With FreeBSD however, old packages seem to be supported for a much longer time than with Debian/Linux. interesting, given that its usually the same software anyway, and i would have thought the freebsd development and user community were smaller than the debian and linux communities. how far back do freebsd support packages? and do they fix problems by offering a newer version of the package, or backporting each and every fix? Actually I was just going on feeling when I said that. Looking at the FreeBSD website I am rather wrong - they are only providing security updates from 3.5-RELEASE at the moment, which was released all of four months ago.. Seems pretty similar to Debian. As to how many packages are shared between Linux and *BSD: I checked that out recently because I was interested. OpenBSD seems to share very little (except obviously major packages that you install from ports). There are generally about 15 ports I install on a new OpenBSD box. They use a fair amount of Gnu tools and of course X, but the Gnu tools are nicely sandboxed into /usr/gnu =) Chuck [ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] Help for Celebral Palsy - Windoze User
Hi All. YES, this is definately off topic. No apologies, with all the off topic stuff of late on the list and given I am trying to find someone to truely help a young person that we know who is servely disabled (OK - lets get over the joke that anyone using Windoze must be disabled) I feel somewhat justified - Hey - I am very old Slugger ;-)) Problem. Windows 95/98 freezes in email. I am not a windoze user and haven't played with it at all. This job would have to be purely on "gratus" basis as the young person has zero $. So, if you have time, windoze 95/98 experience and wish to help someone who is home bound and uses their computer together with a sound board as the only means to communication, please email me back and I will arrange for a HomeCare (NSW) person to be onsite during your visit. Much takes. Grahame. PS: He'd use Linux if we could only get the bloody sound board working under Linux - Company will not release source - bummer. Personal Webpage - http://www.wildpossum.com Member SLUG (Sydney Linux User Group) http://www.slug.org.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
[SLUG] A one-line-link Ken Yap would never post ;)
http://images.kuro5hin.org/kuro5hin_Sig11_vs_Taco.html - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- Ye shall be cursed to fall in love so easily, and yet be so cold of heart as never to express it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] [OT] TANSTAAFL!
Jill Rowling wrote: ObLinux: Would Linux cope with an AI the scale of Mike Holmes? Would not scale. Can imagine self asking permission to format new disk... Can imagine answer. I wondered at the time that Heinlein had been looking at PDP-11 front panels. That's the only thing that struck me as odd in his description when I re-read the book a couple of years ago. It interesting when reading old material how much they expected future computers to be able to do - the sci-fi authors had created artificial intelligence and computers that could run the world - but no-one in the computer industry actually though that this would require quite a few magnitudes more capability than what was available. Because of this we have various limits imposed a long time ago that still affect us today - things like the 640K base memory for DOS, or the inability to boot from partition above 8GB on some systems. How long is it likely to be before 64 bit architecture becomes a limitation? Already 32 bits are too small for use in a lot of places - 32 bits places a limit of 4G possabilities on anything it is applied to. 4GB or RAM may sound like a lot today, but 10 years ago the 196MB in my home system would have been a lot, and 8GB or storage thought to be far more than one person could ever use. I wonder if 10 years from now peopel will look back on teh computers in contempery sci-fi and wonder how we ever could have been so limited in scope. If they will look on the GUI as an anacronism, the way many people already do about the command line interface. (I personally don't - I like having a CLI, and I'd hate to do any serious programming work with a dictation program. hash-include-space-left-angle-bracket-ess-tee-dee-eye-oh-dot-ach-right-angle-bracket-newline-newline... ) So what can be done to future proof things? The Y2K issue showed how not planning ahead can cause big headaches for future users - what are likely to be the first limits linux comes up against? I know the linux time-keeping system falls over after 2038, but what else could limit it? How much RAM can it handle? How much hard-drive space can it look after? How hard would it be to change the default length of an int from 32 bits to 64, 128 or more? Then again, when the books were written, it was necessary to have flashing lights on front panels. How else could you read the register values? Much more useful the the MHz indicators on a lot of systems a few years back. I wouldn't mind having a few register contents listed on the front of my system - at least then I could tell when it's locked up and when it is just busy. -- _ Network Operations Engineer - Big Pond Advance Satellite Ericsson Australia - Level 5, 184 The Broadway, Sydney 2000 Ph: +61-416-085-390 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Help for Celebral Palsy - Windoze User
Would this be classed as disability discrimination - seriously? -- Howard. __ LANNet Computing Associates http://www.lannet.com.au On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Grahame M. Kelly wrote: PS: He'd use Linux if we could only get the bloody sound board working under Linux - Company will not release source - bummer. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Help for Celebral Palsy - Windoze User
On Wed, 04 Oct 2000, Howard Lowndes wrote: Would this be classed as disability discrimination - seriously? Probably - but I have been down this track before. The discrimation is at the OS (device) level rather than at the person level so its not covered by any legal gotcha. Otherwise the NSW anti-discrimination commission would probably be able to assist. Thanks, for your lateral thinking. Cheers Grahame Personal Webpage - http://www.wildpossum.com Member SLUG (Sydney Linux User Group) http://www.slug.org.au -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
Re: [SLUG] Help for Celebral Palsy - Windoze User
Grahame M. Kelly wrote: PS: He'd use Linux if we could only get the bloody sound board working under Linux - Company will not release source - bummer. Is this specialised hardware, or a standard replacable sound card? I'd be happy to donate parts if it were any help... If Linux was preferred, this may be the better option, given Freedom, freedom and support from SLUG. :) Taking off my SLUG hat, I can probably help out with the Win98 issue. Hopefully someone else can help out sooner though, as I'm going to be fairly out of it over the next couple of weeks. - Jeff -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- http://linux.conf.au/ -- Ye shall be cursed to fall in love so easily, and yet be so cold of heart as never to express it. -- SLUG - Sydney Linux User Group Mailing List - http://slug.org.au/ More Info: http://slug.org.au/lists/listinfo/slug
