Re: [RCSE] (No subject header)
Actually if you turn it way off it will turn in the other direction. This is how the ESL winches worked on Goughner frames before Mike Wade modified our frames. Erica and or Rob wrote: On Fri, 15 Aug 2008, Jeff Steifel wrote: You can't do it with a switch. The timing of the brushes controls the direction. Hey now, Um, no, not true. The timing controls how efficent the motor turns in whatever direction. If the timing is off a bit it'll still work, just not as well. RobII *'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.*'`'*.,.* [EMAIL PROTECTED]Erica Frank & Rob Carter II "Roast dragon, fried dragon, dragon steak, dragon cassarole, baked dragon-in-onions, dragon omelette, dragon stew, dragon-on-a-stick-- next time I kill a rabbit, period."--St. George RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] (No subject header)
You can't do it with a switch. The timing of the brushes controls the direction. On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:51:59 -0700, wrote: Several years back I saw that someone knew how to reverse the direction of the Ford Long Shaft motor. I want to run one forward and reverse from two pushbutton switches. 1) How do I reverse it? 2) How do I wire it so I can go forward and reverse?In case you think reversing the polarity at the battery will reverse a FLS motor, it won't. It will blow the diode in the newer type solenoid though. Done that. Thanks for any info. Rick Rick Bothell www.handsfreeretriever.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] (No subject header)
You can't do it with a switch. The timing of the brushes controls the direction. On Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:51:59 -0700, wrote: Several years back I saw that someone knew how to reverse the direction of the Ford Long Shaft motor. I want to run one forward and reverse from two pushbutton switches. 1) How do I reverse it? 2) How do I wire it so I can go forward and reverse?In case you think reversing the polarity at the battery will reverse a FLS motor, it won't. It will blow the diode in the newer type solenoid though. Done that. Thanks for any info. Rick Rick Bothell www.handsfreeretriever.com - Msg sent via CableONE.net MyMail - http://www.cableone.netRCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Chargers
I have an Alpha that is 14 years old. Works great. I also have a Pro Peak Prodigy that I only paid $54 for. Man I guess I got a good deal. The Alpha rules for sure. Still looking for a new do it all and do many at once charger. D.O. Darnell wrote: I think all of you are right with exceptions. Im sure there are several good chargers, but few which do it all. I have an Alpha 4 and have enjoyed it for its features for more than ten years, during which it has worked flawlessly. It does have limitations, but it puts a longer lasting charge than say, the Sirius that I use for my quick (field) charger. I usually use my ALPHA after a flying session for two planes and one transmitter, and yes,, it does have a limitation of 1 amp total output at any given time. This is not a problem, however in the application I use it for. When I forget to charge, or it has been a while since, or if I need to fly in the next 30 minutes, I use my Sirius, which produces a "peaky" charge that is usually sufficient for 1 minute of flying for each one minute of charge. (my rule). The Alpha is great for recycling too. My Multiplex NC 5A is superior however because of multiple charge/discharge cycling ability, plus, its a good field charger for electric Nicads or NiMhs power packs which are, however anachronistic. But neither the Alpha nor the Sirius is the answer for Lipos. I have recently ordered a Pro Peak Prodigy which can charge 1-5 cell Lithiums, 1-14 cell Ni-Cds and Ni-MHs, and 2-12V lead acid batteries all at an adjustable rate of .1-5 amps output (Up to 50 watts total charge output)! It can even cycle and slow-discharge from 0.1 to 1 amp (5 watt maximum). The Prodigy is an affordable, reliable, versatile charger available at Global Hobby.com and is $95. d.o. Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 08:23:12 -0500 From: Doug McLaren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: JAMES EALY <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Peter Schlitzkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, soaring@airage.com Subject: Re: [RCSE] AC/DC Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Mon, Jun 02, 2008 at 11:59:45AM -0400, JAMES EALY wrote: | You can not beat the ALPHA 4 (charger/discharger/maintainance) Of course you can. Other chargers can charge at higher rates. Other chargers can charge more cells (granted, not such a big issue for a charger that can only do one amp total between all it's outputs.) Other chargers can do more chemistries (i.e. LiPo.) Other chargers are a lot cheaper (Originally $300, then $259 right at the end.) Other chargers you can actually buy! (I don't think any Alpha 4s have been made since 2005, and even then you had to jump through hoops to get one.) Other chargers are supported! (I've no idea if the Alpha 4 still is or not. The fact that several of the pages on their web site have been blanked out, such as the home page, the ordering page and the `contact us' page, but not some others, is a very bad sign.) As of 2008, the only really special features that the Alpha 4 has is that 1) it can charge 4 packs at once and 2) it's got that 1970s retro look, if you're into that. And feature #1 isn't even that special any more. Perhaps in the past the Alpha 4 was king, but it hasn't been for years. Personally, when I need to charge multiple RX or TX packs slowly, I use my $30 Hobbico R/C mlti-charger (LXL331) with four outputs. No peak charging, granted, but occasional slow chargings without peak detection are a good thing. It beats four wall-warts anyways. And for fast charging and cycling and such, I use my GP Triton. -- Doug McLaren, [EMAIL PROTECTED] A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something ... -- End of Soaring V1 #11258 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] NATS 2008 Paper work due by tomorrow.
So tomorrow is the last day you can get your nats paperwork in by. The post mark must be by June 1st and since it is a Sunday ... that means that tomorrow is the last day. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New sanyo batteries
Thanks to all that responded to my request for info. I think I'll give them a try in my 9303 and in some planes. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] New sanyo batteries
Anyone using the new sanyo eneloop batteries? The sanyo site says they have reduced internal resistence, but they don't give numbers. Just sales info. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Bright color welded ring
Or you can just paint the line leading up to the ring. James MacLean wrote: Does anyone know of a source of 1 inch welded steel rings which have been anodized in some bright eye catching color? The guys are always picking up the wrong ring or end of the launch harness and standing there confused. It would be really convenient to say "the red one is the right one!" Many thanks, Jim -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Contest Format
Too bad Tom, This has been at a very good thread. Different ideas have been presented, hopefully some of the opinions hit there mark. Also what's nice is that people are talking. It's been a while since that happened. Tom Nagel wrote: So far I have deleted approximately 793 RCSE messages on the topic of "Contest Format," without reading any of them after the first one or two. How about a new thread? How many RCSE readers out there are deleting all the RCSE messages captioned "Contest Format" without reading them. Oh. Wait a minute. Those folks won't be seeing this messge. Never mind. Tom H. Nagel Judicatum Procurator Recuperatio -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Challenge...
I disagree. It's still fun, and the mass launches are awesome. Skill will keep you in line, and if someone veers into your lane skill and some luck will allow you to avoid them. A cool event. I hope they allow FAI winches someday. But I love the towing part as much as the flying. It's great when you get your pilot up on top of everyone. Chuck Anderson wrote: The original English version was fun but not the FAI version unless you have two healthy linebackers for towers. And the mass launches are great for midairs. Almost like watching the start of a F1 race. Chuck Anderson At 07:51 PM 1/10/2008, you wrote: From the FAI web page. The second sentence fascinates me. F3J - Thermal Duration Gliders This class is very popular as it is a single task event with simple rules. The competitors try to keep their models aloft for exactly 10 minutes and land as close as possible to a designated spot. Launching the model is achieved by hand towing, where two persons with a 150m-monofilament line pull the model. Pilots are divided in groups, after a matrix schedule, so that during the preliminary or qualifying rounds, they compete against as many as possible of the other pilots. Then the top pilots fly in a single group the Final or Fly-Off rounds, which determine the winner. Excuse my ignorance I am new to the world of soaring. Are they launching like this in international competition? Sounds fun. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
Ok, so what if no one makes the time. Does everyone get a zero. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nope, I MEAN no flight points because you never made the 10 minutes to be able to qualify for any sort of landing. Well..I guess it eliminated landing points too. Brutal! Original Message Subject: Re: [RCSE] Contest Format From: Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Thu, January 10, 2008 2:23 pm To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "RCSE (E-mail)" I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if they are within 2 seconds over the time. If they are short of 10 minutes then zero flight points. Isn't that what all the top experts do in each contest. If you can't make the time, what makes you think you are good enough to get landing points either? BTW, DLG contests do MOM all the time. The thought pattern is TOTALLY different in DLG contests. There is a set task, either you make it or you don't. The only thing I constantly hear is how many points did you DROP, not how many points did you achieve. This is not basketball, it is more like Golf. The course is rated and you know the task (par value) and you are being measured on what you can or cannot achieve. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
I hope you meant zero the landing points, not flight points. Here on the east coast, and certainly at the NATs, there have been days where even the top guys will miss a flight. Zeroing a flight is ridiculous if you don't make the 10, because even those guys would miss. I assume you are talking west coast give me a thermal and I can't come down air. Not the variable stuff that the midwest and east coast can get. Start a day off with 5mph and get up to winds that knock over the Shitter.. Not everyone will make their time, including the leaders.They will/may drop them. Zeroing a flight... what if everyone zeros a flight? Zero the landing? Still not convinced... Why not just adopt the FAI standard? Why do we have to do it different then the rest of the world. Use the f3j format with winches,and the U.S. might wind up winning the worlds. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if they are within 2 seconds over the time. If they are short of 10 minutes then zero flight points. Isn't that what all the top experts do in each contest. If you can't make the time, what makes you think you are good enough to get landing points either? BTW, DLG contests do MOM all the time. The thought pattern is TOTALLY different in DLG contests. There is a set task, either you make it or you don't. The only thing I constantly hear is how many points did you DROP, not how many points did you achieve. This is not basketball, it is more like Golf. The course is rated and you know the task (par value) and you are being measured on what you can or cannot achieve. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
I think you meant zero the landing points, not the flight points. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not just have everyone fly for 10 minutes to qualify for a landing attempt with 1 meter concentric divisions like f3J. After all, isn't that what it's about? Why not give bonus points for landing if they are within 2 seconds over the time. If they are short of 10 minutes then zero flight points. Isn't that what all the top experts do in each contest. If you can't make the time, what makes you think you are good enough to get landing points either? BTW, DLG contests do MOM all the time. The thought pattern is TOTALLY different in DLG contests. There is a set task, either you make it or you don't. The only thing I constantly hear is how many points did you DROP, not how many points did you achieve. This is not basketball, it is more like Golf. The course is rated and you know the task (par value) and you are being measured on what you can or cannot achieve. Chris RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Contest Format
Absolutely... I agree with Jim. Throwing dirt their way or being buried is part of the sport. What if you didn't have man on man, the results would be the same anyway. I'm not sure I understand why you would bring the pilots down early. You actually compress the groups scores. James V. Bacus wrote: "Shafting" the other fellow competitors by completing the task time? "Unethical?" ;-) I see it as maximizing my available flying time during a contest event, and playing by the rules of the contest attempting to maximize my score. At 07:16 PM 1/9/2008, Chuck Anderson wrote: I never liked the idea of shafting a fellow competitor. It always seemed to me to be unethical. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Challenge...
Don't know why but I just got a whole bunch of mail that should have been sent days ago. Reading thru the headers it should have left airage on the 3rd and 4th, but it just got forwarded. A bunch of you have already been playing with this thread... Can someone tell me why I just received all these days later. I like Jack's idea... I think we should standardize on the FAI system, then it won't be them and us anymore. Also 200m is the legal line length for winch launches.. no skegs, but you have to change the tape. If you don't have a skeg you shouldn't have the tight numbers we have for landing, that won't stop the dorking, it will only increase it, which is hard on ships. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
Sorry I'm not buying it. My planes stall the winch, with a smaller drum, I get to turn it. We don't use light line anymore, so line speed isn't an issue. The line creates the line speed by the amount it puts on the drum. During the morning, a bigger drum makes sense, during the noon baloon, 2" or 1.75" During wind 2" or 1.75" Unless you have dead air ,or down wind the 2" - 1.75" drums will provide a better launch on the line we use. I stall the winch, and have to push it through to get it moving. Chuck Anderson wrote: I must agree with Brian. My first winch used a two inch diameter welded aluminum drum on a standard 12 volt Ford starter motor with a 12 volt battery. The two inch drum didn't produce enough line speed to break lines so easy and we used much smaller lines. We finally switched to larger drums when contestants began complaining about lack of power for good zooms. What they were really complaining about was the lack of line speeds. Unfortunately, the man who fabricated our drums is no longer with us and we never found another fabricator who could produce good welds and the end plates frequently broke. I still have the winch I built in 1972 with the welded aluminum 2 inch drum. We took it out last year and did a few launches and everybody was amazed at how much softer and smoother the launches were when compared to our standard winches. Maybe we should regulate the winch drum diameter. Chuck Anderson At 09:51 AM 12/21/2007, you wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. At our local field when we launch to the north, it takes all the line off the drum.. We get much softer, less powerful launches.. As opposed to when we launch to the south we still have approximately half the winch line left on the drum at the time of launch and the launches are much more aggressive/powerful and all the broken lines and broken models come at the south side.. Just My observations here in Tullahoma.. Brian Smith - Original Message - From: "Jeff Steifel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Charlie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Winch/Sharon Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
Dave, all well and good, but the average club/pilot doesn't have a wide drum only a drum that equals the length of the long shaft. Hell if we use a wide drum there's no need for a long shaft, just build an F3B winch. I have used my F3B winch with braided on occasion, it doesn't have the zip that mono has for sure. so I think that moving the resistance slightly lower to give ample power without breaking the line is in order. I noticed that Daryl posted the same, and I would think that Daryl is certainly knowledgeable about winches and launching. I don't believe that the current FAI setup on a Ford with Braided would be strong enough. I would not want to get out of shape and not have enough power to pull me back on. This is where a real lack of power is a problem. Again I believe that you can lower the resistance on an FLS to get the power to where it won't break lines, and will make everyone happy (ok not everyone, that'll never happen). [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jeff, I had a FLS wade built motor powered winch with a wide drum that I used with mono for F3B and with braided 200 lb test line for TD. this winch had a 1/2 inch dia threaded stainless steel rod as a resistor to make it F3B legal and it was never disconnected. 1) You can't hurt the S/S rod with the heat generated by the hardest use at a contest and, 2) you won't hurt the motor, brushes or any other part of the motor with the S/S rod. 3) You will find that you can launch any of the current breed or future sailplanes with this package assuming the use of a properly built FLS motor on braided 200 lb test line. 4) Battery life will depend on the battery capacity you choose. Small chargers on the winch line and a small generator near by all but eliminates that question. Jeff, I have done this and I have built a new winch that will prove again, my plan to be workable. Bosch motors used in F3B may not provide the same power that the FLS motor can using braided line due to the larger armature and field dia's on the FLS motor but here again, the motor of choice in the US is the FLS so until we get off our cans and start experimenting with the variables what will get done. I have started with my testing again, HAVE YOU ? Let us know when you have some results to report and I will do the same. Regards, Dave Corven. -- Original message -- From: Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Without knowing for sure, I don't think we want the same resistance as the F3B winches. The F3B winches use mono so they get power from that, and the FLS draws way more amperage, so if we resistor down to where the F3B winches are the resistors will probably get smoked... I would think we would want a little less resistance to overcome the lack of mono, and higher draw of the FLS. One of the Electrical engineers could probably come up with a decent resistance. I'd expect it to be a small , but as my F3B teacher has taught me a little change is a lot of power. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Long, but read it anyway. Tension limiter discussions come and go and even the simplest concepts not only add a substantial cost to each winch an more potential failure points which could put a winch in a contest situation down for the day, where a broken line can usually repaired within a few minutes. Two things that we can do to stanardise winch power, minimize line breakage and make winches more user friendly are: 1 ) A simple 1/2 stainless steel threaded rod installed between the FLS and the power from the solenoid can be adjusted to provide the resistance specs for F3B winches. Remember that the resistor rod is threaded so adjustment is simple with a pair of jam nuts. There are a few checking devises for F3B winch certification that should be available to proof the setup. AMA has one. The target setup should be the same as current (pun intended) requirements for F3B winches for a standard and then any winch could be used for all TD comps,an F3B comp and possibly to run an F3J comp also. The stainless rod is also unaffected by the heat generated by contest loads and cannot fail during heavy use. Also the cost can't be more than $10 to $12 per winch. That reads CHEAP ! I have done this mod thee times and and can testify to it's ease of installation and cost. 2 ) The slightly lower power achieved above, and I mean slightly, allows for lower lb test line which will cost less and more importantly allow some stretch at the launch release giving the pilot a better choice on the amount of line tension preferred, instead of jerking the sailplane out of his hand. Also could be an easier launch with the more fragile wood constructed sailplanes. This mod has been done 3 times by yours truly with successful results. I see where M
Re: [RCSE] Launching Sanity
Without knowing for sure, I don't think we want the same resistance as the F3B winches. The F3B winches use mono so they get power from that, and the FLS draws way more amperage, so if we resistor down to where the F3B winches are the resistors will probably get smoked... I would think we would want a little less resistance to overcome the lack of mono, and higher draw of the FLS. One of the Electrical engineers could probably come up with a decent resistance. I'd expect it to be a small , but as my F3B teacher has taught me a little change is a lot of power. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Long, but read it anyway. Tension limiter discussions come and go and even the simplest concepts not only add a substantial cost to each winch an more potential failure points which could put a winch in a contest situation down for the day, where a broken line can usually repaired within a few minutes. Two things that we can do to stanardise winch power, minimize line breakage and make winches more user friendly are: 1 ) A simple 1/2 stainless steel threaded rod installed between the FLS and the power from the solenoid can be adjusted to provide the resistance specs for F3B winches. Remember that the resistor rod is threaded so adjustment is simple with a pair of jam nuts. There are a few checking devises for F3B winch certification that should be available to proof the setup. AMA has one. The target setup should be the same as current (pun intended) requirements for F3B winches for a standard and then any winch could be used for all TD comps,an F3B comp and possibly to run an F3J comp also. The stainless rod is also unaffected by the heat generated by contest loads and cannot fail during heavy use. Also the cost can't be more than $10 to $12 per winch. That reads CHEAP ! I have done this mod thee times and and can testify to it's ease of installation and cost. 2 ) The slightly lower power achieved above, and I mean slightly, allows for lower lb test line which will cost less and more importantly allow some stretch at the launch release giving the pilot a better choice on the amount of line tension preferred, instead of jerking the sailplane out of his hand. Also could be an easier launch with the more fragile wood constructed sailplanes. This mod has been done 3 times by yours truly with successful results. I see where Mr Hands Off Retriever fame, Rick Botha is supplying the SWC comp with a winch resistor system and that will be the start of something. We have to quit talking about this and get it done. I propose that we get the Soaring Nats winches resistorised for this years Soaring Nats and with lighter line than the 300 lb test line that we have migrated to this last year. Regards, Dave Corven. Also Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. -- Original message -- From: Marc Gellart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From what I have seen in this thread, the two real simple, straight forward suggesions seem to be, lower capacity batteries like used in B, and lighter line, like 200# (which the Dayton club already uses and it works just fine for them except they have a great grass field and and no humps in it). Personnally I just hate downwind launches (my problem huh?) and tension limiters sound worse than retrievers to keep working correctly. I am really interested to hear how SWC goes to see how Rick's resistor set up works, that might work just fine. I've had my arse chewed on privitaly about somethings here, heh, these are just ideas, right? Still wished we all had the B winches though, then there is no problem. Marc Have a great Christmas, and holiday with your families! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Re: line breaks
I apologize I missed where you said at the time of launch.. I read that after you launch. Mea Culpa.. So I don't understand that. Only that you probably don't have planes set up to pull very hard. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. At our local field when we launch to the north, it takes all the line off the drum.. We get much softer, less powerful launches.. As opposed to when we launch to the south we still have approximately half the winch line left on the drum at the time of launch and the launches are much more aggressive/powerful and all the broken lines and broken models come at the south side.. Just My observations here in Tullahoma.. Brian Smith - Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Steifel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Charlie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Winch/Sharon Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
1" is the extereme, you won't get the plane moving fast enough. 1.5 is extreme too. 1.75 seems better. The best compromise. Anyway in referring to the Goughner drum which is too large, smaller offers more power, and the ability to break lines. Too small you can't get the plane moving. To large no power and you will stall the winch and eat brushes.. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. Brian Smith --- Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel --- I agree with you to Brian. i disagree with the larger drum dia. for a standard winch. on a f3b winch yes, i agree. the standard winch has so much power. say you started with a 3'' dia. that thing will pull line in so fast and load a plane up instantly without stalling the winch, it just keeps pulling alot of line in FAST. as your tapping the pedal you can see your plane pulsing. go down to say a 1'' dia. it's not going to pull the line in so fast. much easier to control your plane with the pedal. I've tried it, and I've seen it. dh -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Re:line breaks
I'm not sure I understand the south vs the north. Wind direction I understand, compass direction without wind direction I don't I stand by what I said. I believe that for the FLS a 1.75 to a 2" drum to have more power than the 2.5 to 3" Goughner. Think of the drum as a transmission. If you start out with a big drum it is harder to get going, and you keep going up in gears (line makes the drum bigger) so you have more speed but less torque at the end. Too much speed that you can't get the FLS to move it stalls. With a smaller drum 1.75 to 2" you have the optimal power to speed. At the start you are getting good torque, at the end you are still getting good torque and speed since the line has added and you are still able to turn the motor. In F3B we mostly rely on the line stretch for Zoom... in USA TD we rely only on the motor. So a smaller drum equals more power. One of my clubs replaced there winches and drums but not the motor. They went to a McCann winch and drum.. The power went up. Why? The drum diameter decreased from there previous drum.. The frame didn't do anything. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: With all due respect I disagree Jeff. At our local field when we launch to the north, it takes all the line off the drum.. We get much softer, less powerful launches.. As opposed to when we launch to the south we still have approximately half the winch line left on the drum at the time of launch and the launches are much more aggressive/powerful and all the broken lines and broken models come at the south side.. Just My observations here in Tullahoma.. Brian Smith - Original Message - From: "Jeff Steifel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Charlie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 9:08 AM Subject: Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Winch/Sharon Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Winch/Sharon
Charlie less drum diameter will lead to more line breaks. Since you have more torque you can now crank more turns in and break the line easier. It does lead to excellent power for those that know how to use them. I have a smaller drum diameter on my FLS and it is more powerfull than most. It is power management. If I use my F3b winch in wind with a 2 or 2.5 drum the motor bogs down and there is no danger of blowing a line. If I switch to my 1.5 I can blow the line... you can hear the popping of the line and know when it is about to blow. If I use light line in the morn, I use a larger line for 2 reasons. One to get speed up, but the other and more important, to control torque so I don't break the line. *ONE IMPORTANT thing about big drums on FLS motors is that you burn up the brushes*** If you resistor them you can't pull the amperage and burn them up. Charlie wrote: Greetings Do we really have to winch with full pedal all the way up the line? Remember, the more line we take in, the less altitude we can get. If the flight window starts after we get off the line, I don't see a reason to rush the launch. I see many pilots tap the glider up the line, then build tension near the top for a great zoom. This would be appropriate when there is a launch wind.. Down wind? This is full pedal time! I don't think there can be enough tension to break the line... My winch doesn't seem to have a problem with line breaks. Even with a full pedal launch.. I attribute this to the drum diameter.. It has more torque, less speed. With lots of speed, a winch will bog down. We loose tension when this happens. I prefer high torque. I think contest directors should consider this. It would eliminate many of the line breaks... And you still will get a great launch. I agree that we can't blame winches for not handling the larger gliders.. We need to manage the glider better up the line.. If we want to have new standards for winches, that would be ok. I think the smaller diameter drum would be the cheapest way to cure the line break problem... I will be at the SWC in Feb. Remember last year?? Line break city??? Perhaps we all can make a good effort to manage our tension? I will be flying my Sharon. I will have two with me. I will sell one of them after the contest. Hope you all have a Merry Christmas. Cheers Charlie -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Line breakage and launching and costest management
Actually Ed, If you get a line break you fly it at LISF. As for new line we don't normally put on fresh line anymore. We discovered that new line had more breaks than older line, unless it was really rashed up. A lot of the Memphis Twine has bad spots in it. We started noticing once the bad spots were removed we were good for a longer period. Ed Anderson wrote: I am not a CD for the ESL events but I think this is a fair approach. I believe, when we host Eastern Soaring League contests at the Long Island Silent Flyers field, the rule is that Experts get one line break on the first round, and that is IT! And we have some top grade pilots flying top of the line ships. Supras, Pikes, Sharons and the like are all represented. The winches are strong and there is plenty of ability to break lines. But after the first round, if you break it, you fly it! Only the CD can decide if a line break was not the pilot's fault. However, for ESL events we normally put on fresh line so there are no knots in the line, until one is broken. We fly Man on Man at the LISF ESL events using 4 ESL winches. I believe Sportsman get one break per day, which assumes Sportsman have less control and knowledge. But the Experts are expected to know how to control their launch and live within those limits. I believe we use 250 lb braded line. Best regards, Ed Anderson LISF, ESL RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Icon 2
Spectra isn't a very good launcing line Dave. There is no give in it, and lots of planes would pop off. There is no energy that can be gained from it. Limit the power and put mono on. No more power problems. Just $$ problems. David Klein wrote: You guys really aren't looking at the international trends that are driving the size wars. These planes are designed as the ultimate F3J plane. In F3J, the launch power is as much as you can use, figuring you higher some offensive lineman to tow. If F3J were to switch to using F3b winches, the launch power is regulated. F3b has evolved to smaller planes, that launch higher in a no wind, or downwind launch situation. If F3J planes were to go to a regulated launching system, the planes would get smaller, in order to launch higher faster in weak launch conditions. So the planes will continue to grow as long as there are large towers with a lot of power to launch them. Bigger planes are more efficient, so If you can launch them, you are at an advantage. Planes will grow unless we regulate launching power. BTW We don't have a winch power problem we have a winch line problem. We use crappy/heavy braided line rather than high performance Mono filament spectra. The mono is temperamental, so I don't recommend switching out club winch lines, but just understand the problem. If F3J switches to F3b style regulated winches, the planes will come back down in size, or at least stop growing. On Dec 20, 2007 9:32 AM, tony estep < [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote: - Original Message From: Darwin N. Barrie < [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> ...My concern is the launching equipment. With the current crop of moldies, line breaks and winch bogging and ultimate failure are becoming more prevelant == I wonder about this too. The Pike Perfect is the current WC plane and the current Nats champ, at a bit over 140", and has apparently set a new benchmark that eclipses the 132" planes, which in turn pushed out the 3-meter (118") planes. It's all too easy to break the line with a PP, and line breaks will presumably be even more likely with 150" planes that have larger wing areas and can generate more pull. The 2-man tow setup puts a practical limit on F3J, but apparently that limit is not fully compatible with the standard U.S. winch setup; that is, it seems that the F3J scheme can launch bigger planes than our typical winches like to handle. One imagines a nightmare scenario where the planes keep getting bigger, and eventually as clubs need to replace their launch gear, they'll turn to super-power Injoy or similar winches, and the cycle will repeat, and finally we'll be flying models 40% of full-scale like the gas-power boys. -- David Klein Graduate Research Student Department of Structural Engineering Jacobs School of Engineering University of California San Diego -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Icon 2
I like that idea of F3B winches. Wanna get a launch on steroids, try mono. The problem with "break the line you fly it", is that sometimes the line is the fault, not the pilot. But many of todays planes can easily break braided line if dialed in correctly, or if someone launches incorrectly (all over the place). Mike Lachowski wrote: Either say that you break the line, you fly it. Or everyone goes to F3b spec winches and everyone provides their own launching equipment. Darwin N. Barrie wrote: I'm sure this will be a very dynamic plane and competitive with the Euro models. My concern is the launching equipment. With the current crop of moldies, line breaks and winch bogging and ultimate failure are becoming more prevelant. Heavy enough line for these new "super ships," will be a burden for the lighter planes. Yes, I've CD'd lots of contests and a few big ones. We've tried some heavy line and it is great for the heavier planes but the lighter planes and 2 meters have a helluva time overcoming the line drag and weight. Where do we draw the line? RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Solenoids
George, when installing the solenoids you must use 2 wrenches. One to keep the lugs from turning (it has a nut on the lug), the other to tighten the nut. Do you know if that was done? George wrote: The Cole Hersee solenoids that had failures are the 24059 and 24037. George MeyersWD6EQS Fresno, Ca RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Solenoid Failure
Mass failures happen when someone over tightens the lugs on the solenoid. They do it for all thinking the tightest connection is the way to go. What happens is the contact twists, and then instead of transferring the whole load only a portion of the load is transfered creating a weld. Take apart the solenoid and you'll see what I am talking about. There is a disk that is spring loaded and is pulled down to the lug (contact). Twisting the lug slightly is enough to arc that spot and weld it. When the whole contact is made at the same time there is enough suface area to keep it from welding.. You have to keep lug from turning. I meant to reply to the original about this.. but since you brought it up sleep4 wrote: I'm surprised at that many failures over that short period of time. Something ain't right somewhere. I've never seen a failure of a cole hersee solonoid with years of service on my winch. I'm sure you have already, but I would check all the wiring and connections real carefully. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Plans Vacuum Box
Actually it isn't that hard. You can use pegboard for a large unit, or drill your own masonite (tempered board) with finer holes for a smaller unit. Build a box with a hole for a home vac . Add support bars for the pegboard. Now build 2 frames to fit over the box screwed together (since most glue can't handle the heat) to hold the plastic use a hinge to open them. Use small brads with the heads cut off and sharpened to hold the sheets of plastic from slipping. .. put it in the oven and bake until the plastic is soft. move the frame over the part / box and vacuum. JAMES EALY wrote: Location for finding plans and info on making a vacuum box and where to find plastic sheet? TIA Jim -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Spread Spectrum
Anyway it looks like we will finally be able to get a tranny that works in all parts of the world. That would be nice. Imagine being able to show up and not have to worry about reprogramming. Or having people in for our Nats and not having to buy or borrow a tranny. I would love to go to an F3B meet in Europe.. One of the big ones to see how it runs and fly. That would be cool. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: Re: [RCSE] Spread Spectrum...Chat Gold, Fools Gold or ?
I think JoJo got his information from Gordy :-) Sorry I couldn't help myself... Mark Howard wrote: Whoa - this is backwards if I remember my ham training right. Higher freq at same power = less range. M Anyhow they now also opened up 5Ghz for wireless access and that would help a lot on range. Kind of like you have practically double the range on 72mhz than ours 35mhz. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: Re: [RCSE] Spread Spectrum...Chat Gold, Fools Gold or ?
so how would Spread spectrum play out internationally. Currently the usa is 72mhz most of europe I think is 35 So would that also unite us to one solution? :-) -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Please write to the King County Council (re: 60 Acres South)
I would think that all these non-residents would actually hurt your cause. Once the politicians see that most of these are non voting non tax paying citizens your in worse shape than before. If we were an environmental group on the other hand it would help. They would be afraid of the attention. Just my 2 cents. I don't want to see you in worse shape because of this. What does Sherman Knight think of this idea? Since he is doing the legal work. Will this help or hurt? Jim Laurel wrote: *Here's a way you can help* King County is planning to give the Lake Washington Youth Soccer Association (LWYSA) <http://save60acres.typepad.com/save_60_acres/2005/11/adults_bitter_s.html> a long term concession agreement for 60 Acres South. What this means is that the LWYSA <http://save60acres.typepad.com/save_60_acres/2005/11/adults_bitter_s.html> will exclusively manage the field and collect revenue from its use. They plan to put a parking lot on the tall grass wetland area on the east side of the field. King County has advised us that the LWYSA <http://save60acres.typepad.com/save_60_acres/2005/11/adults_bitter_s.html> will be permitted to rent the field to whomever they wish at thier discretion. Why a "concession agreement"? Well, that's because a lease would be illegal. So how is this "concession agreement" different from a "lease"? Good question. This deal walks, talks and works like a lease as far as we citizens are concerned. The use of a concession agreement is a clever technical tactic King County is using to abide by the letter of the law, while avoiding the spirit. *We need as many of you as possible to send email to the King County Council and tell them what you think of a public park being given over to a private organization for their sole benefit and enrichment.* Let's make this easy. Here are the relevant email addresses of your King County Council representatives, along with the Parks officials and Ron Sims himself. Simply copy and paste these into the To: line of your email and type away. Let your elected officials know that you won't stand by while they perpetrate this egregious injustice. Here are the email addresses: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Thanks for your help! -Jim Laurel Seattle Area Soaring Society -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] HELP!!! flying in and out of thermals and thermal turns.
Jay, first off, as soon as you notice that you are in a thermal, start turning. Then figure out which side of the turn is better. Don't fly thru it and try to get back, you may not always be able to. Also you are probably on an edge when you see it, or in the core if it is light and you only noticed it when it really indicated. TURN... How to figure out which side is better. alti drop/ gain, sluggish control usually means sink, but may also mean booming thermal that you can't turn in (rare here in the east). Don't fly straight to correct, just oblong the turn in the better direction. You will stay with the thermal this way without loosing track of it. Guys that straighten out and try to come back often lose the thermal. If you are in a small thermal with a DLG turn tight, a big ship will depend on the amount of lift, sometimes you can't turn that tight so you would fly flat to get the most lift and fly in and out to get bumped up OR go find a better thermal. If it is booming and small a big ship can be put on a wing tip. Then gradually open it up. When your plane is climbing nicely and you have power all around you have probably cored the thermal. If it is not smooth all the way around you are on the edge or gowing in and out of the center of the thermal... and therefore it isn't cored. I'm sure others will chime in. Jay Hunter wrote: First off I am flying a photon II R/E dlg. No flaps, no camber mode, just simple RE poly... I am not sure if anyone can help me but I have been flying through thermals. I have progressed to point where I can tell I just flew through a thermal, and I can circle and fly BACK into the thermal, but I can not figure out how big the thermal is and I can see the plane 'falling' out of the thermal. Any thoughts on how to gauge the size of a thermal, so I know how tight to turn? Also any tips on doing thermal turns so that the circles are tight and so I don't stall then speed up, then stall then speed up. Thanks for any help you can offer... Jay -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Getting Bombed at MOSS Field
Same in Reading, PA yesterday at the ESL end of season. Some of the spiders were sizable, most were not seen, just the spider web. Ben Wilson wrote: Hi Tom -- Same thing in Louisville, KY today! President Ed was up in Muncie and said he had never seen so many. I guess they all got word via the PSE (Parachute Spider Exchange) that it was lift-off day :) Aside from the air being thick with spiders, they did provide as handy thermal detectors. Tom Nagel wrote: It was a beautiful early October day at MOSS field, the little berry patch out northeast of Columbus that our new member Gil Perez calls "The Tree Farm" We had clear blue skies, light winds, lgreat thermal lift, a handful of club members, a few visitors to the field and spiders. Lots and lots of SPIDERS! I think these things are called parachute spiders. They sit in the bushes and tree tops and spin out long lengths of spider silk, and when a thermal comes through they go sailing off across the sky. Our planes were coming back with hundreds of strands of spider silk (and presumably some pretty pissed of spiders) draped across the wings. Tom H. Nagel Judicatum Procurator Recuperatio RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] End of Season ESL contest.
Its the ESL end of season contest. This weekend at the Daniel Boone field in Reading PA. For registration see http://www.flyesl.com/ -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] ESL end of season contest
The final contest of the ESL season is here. Come join us for the weekend. http://www.flyesl.com/ On the quick calendar is is the Reading ESL TD EOS -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: [RCSE] Top end speed in MPH ! Math quiz
Rich, take a ball attach it to the line and time the time it takes to travel the distance. Measure the distance then we can figure out feet/sec The reason being that resistance and motor windings will make a difference. Remember there are a few different motors out there. And the new McCann winches at the Nats have a 2" drum. RBurnoski wrote: Please read all the factors below before responding For you math guys. Lets take the NATS/ LSF winches as an example. OK, first ,line diameter may not be needed for this calculation but drum diameter would be . Im not sure of that exact drum diameter,,, 3" ? If using a three inch diameter , lets keep it constant. I know the drum gets bigger when the line is stacked. But, you can figure it both ways if your having a slow day. The question is: What is the maximum miles per hour that the winch will go pulling a 4 lb to a 6 lb model ? One other factor Im giving you. Im not talking about launching using the normal arc up over the turnaround. Im talking about a parrallel to the ground, from winch toward the turnaround scenerio. Thanks in advanced, Richard Burnoski -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: Soaring V1 #8317
e are some unexpected as well. > A good > contest, and anything could happen in the next two days. > Thunderstorms > this evening and Saturday isn't looking any better - "may be > severe with > damaging winds" in the afternoon. Another challenging day, but > one that > hopefully the "Soaring Masters" will make the most of. > > ben wilson > louisville area soaring society > http://www.louisvillesoaring.org > > -- > > End of Soaring V1 #8317 > *** > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send > "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to soaring- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe > messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. > Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are > generally NOT in text format > > Best Regards, Ed Anderson -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] World Soaring Masters: Setup Day
It will be both. Soaring and definetly landing. Tom Kiesling doesn't fly with a skeg anymore at any contests to use it as prep for FAI events. It will be a landing contest as well, balanced by 12 minute (not an absolute) flights. But it's man on man... you don't have to get 12, just beat everyone else. Good to see you back John... John Roe wrote: Wet grass with an 80-point tape and 12-minute tasks will no doubt make this a "soaring" contest and not a landing one :) nope ;-) Good luck to all... -- John Roe www.roenation.com 949-458-8544 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: Re: [RCSE] Boiling Nylon Servo Arms/Control Horns?
I second what Darwin said. Yes I have seen servo arms break. I broke a couple in my F3B ship on a ballasted landing at base B... its hard to tell sometimes how much speed you are carrying when you are 150m away. Anyway, I also broke a couple on the slope during combat. I started using the Kimbro servo savers. But boiling makes good sense. Advantage they are more flexible, don't deform.. It doesn't mean you won't break it, your just giving yourself some flexibility to avoid the break. Everything has a breaking point. Darwin N. Barrie wrote: We used to boil Top Flite nylon props to give them flexibility and take away the brittleness. I'd say probably the same end result. Never seen a servo arm break though. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ - Original Message - *From:* Scott Hewett <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> *To:* RCSE <mailto:soaring@airage.com> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 20, 2006 9:28 PM *Subject:* [RCSE] Boiling Nylon Servo Arms/Control Horns? *Can someone please shed some light on the point in "boiling" nylon servo arms, clevises, control horns and the like in water? I'd never heard of such a thing before, but it seems to be the latest thing to do amongst some flyers. I was a guest recently at the Northern California Slope Soarers site near Cordelia Junction/Benecia, and was amazed to see a bunch of guys huddled around in a circle, boiling nylon clevises, etc, in a pot of water over a can of Sterno. The field marshall gave me a brief explanation about flexibility/shear value, etc. So, what gives? Is this worthwhile trying on my Gentle Lady/RnR Nova?* *Thanks for any replys on-line.* *Raz* ** -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: LSF Discussion
I got that after I went to the AMA site. I haven't done a T3, we don't fly it so I was out of touch with the scoring. That's why I posted a poll on RC groups about how many fly non-T2 events. dharban wrote: Jeff, The 2350 comes from 50 points less than a perfect 2400. Three 800 point rounds. Each round has 700 flight points in accordance with AMA Task T3 (described on page 142 of my mud stained AMA rule book) and 100 landing points. It was also detailed on the attachment to the last post where I tried to clarify the details of the task. Check it out. Its clear we're not criticizing from the same page :) Don -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: LSF Discussion
Actually I have been thinking about rekindling my Level 4 .. Also if I go out and don't do the LSF task it would be to practice F3B and dial my new crossfire in. I only got it a week before the US Team Selections and wasn't dialed in, I have to figure out if I want to order another one. Sorry but your offer doesn't get me anything. dharban wrote: BTW Jeff, I'm not aware that you have accepted my challenge to fly a 2350 round in accordance with the rules set out in the pdf above. A "real" competitive "sportsman" would grab that challenge in a minute. Grab your plane, get some witnesses and let your thumbs do the talking. Show us whatcha got :) Don -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: LSF Discussion
Actually the ESL is home to some very top pilots. Tom Kiesling, Mike Lachowski, Josh Glaab, Phil Barnes... And other good fliers. Tom is a landing machine. And Joe and Larry would have tough competition with Tom. All three are in the top echelon. I know that there have been many contests where Tom has been off max by peanuts. And the Same goes for Mike, Josh, and Phil. It just depends on who and what kind of day. Then there are days where they are less than accurate but good enough to win. So how can you replace competition? You can't. But you can try... He's the diff between landing at a contest and not a contest.: About 10 - 20 feet. Thats how far you stand from the spot. In practice I can land at the spot nearly every time if I try. Why I stand by the spot and my depth perception is aided by that fact. dharban wrote: Jeff, I guess Joe Wurts and Larry Jolly just wouldn't cut it flying in the ESL. If you would like to help and be constructive, maybe you could furnish data from a couple of years of ESL contests and we'll figure out what numbers would be appropriate. Unless Jesus or the Pope is flying our there I suspect that there is some scoring standard short of perfection that would be representative. Besides, we are trying to arrive at the closest _practical_ way of coming up with a "competition equivalent" knowing from the get go that nothing will exactly ever be a "competition equivalent". Maybe the bright side will be that "real" LSF Level V's can stand on the sidelines and hold their noses while their inferiors fake having fun. I wouldn't have driven all the miles I did to get my Level IV nor would I commit to drive all the miles I am preparing to drive to take a shot at Level V if I did not understand that doing it in a contest is the ultimate. Frankly I don't give a tinkers damn about the badge -- its about the pleasure of meeting and competing with great people. I'm dismayed that you don't seem to understand that there are places in this country where competition at the highest levels is not like it is where you live. There are places where a sane person would not undertake a campaign -- surely my judgement in this matter is questionable. As I have related before, I spent 20 years racing full size sailboats. I campaigned an Etchells 22 (a world class 30 foot racing sloop) for three years and my total all-in net cost (including a complete set of new sails every year) was less than it will cost to undertake what will probably be a futile attempt to complete my Level V. How much could you spend? The last time I checked, no one was suggesting interferring in any way with your right to seek excellence the best way you know how. Nobody is even suggesting that you don't have the right to look down you nose at people of a lesser god (the god of LSF sportsman) who seek an alternative (if inferior) way. This is not about silly little badges -- its about doing things which will bring increased enjoyment of our sport for people besides ourselves. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] AMA Rules and contest types
I was reading Don Harban's doc and decided to read some of the AMA rules. First I noticed that the rules STILL have truncate time, which was a change instituted and not voted on I believe. I also read with great amusement the distance task. The wording is that without lift only 2.5 laps are possible. This is based on an RES ship. BUT HERE IS THE DISCUSSION and Data I am looking for: How many contests have you been to where you don't do a normal TD event. What I mean 1 second equals 1 point.. How many of you fly T1/ T3 / T4 / T5 / T6 / T7 / T9 Please name the event name approx date and event type... I don't care to know about the normal contests or MOM... just the events that are out of the norm. In the ESL we really only fly the typical TD as at the Nats T2. BTW Here is a link for the rule book http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0...k/RCsoaring.pdf <http://www.modelaircraft.org/comp/0506Rulebook/RCsoaring.pdf> Also the polls is on RCGROUPS http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=570193#post6072020 -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion update # CAL P. ##
I think Don Harris may have done it three times... Way to go Don.. And Cal Posthuma twice... Way to go Cal. Now for those who complain the program is too hard, Cal has done it in a wheel chair, with limited mobility. Cal truly is one of the great Soaring Pilots, even without the program his contesting proves it over and over. The fact that he did it twice just reinforces how great a pilot he is and how dedicated he is. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/14/2006 4:24:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I believe Cal Posthuma has achieved Level V TWICE with a hand-built wood airplane He's probably 'one of one' that has done that ... Too many people are forgetting the beginnings of this sport and believe that 'newer is better' ... in some cases, that's correct ... in others, not so !! ... Pepper -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] New LSF Thread Level 6
I actually think a modern ship is a disadvantage doing an 8 hour slope flight. While it might perform better, it is a higher workload. I think the RES or Bent wing full house would provide a more enjoyable time, less burnout, more ability to take care of business if you know what I mean. BTW Congratulations on your level 5! :-) John Erickson wrote: One last item, Darwin, I disagree about equipment being responsible for anyone getting their Level V. First off, in contests you are up against everyone else flying the same stuff, no advantage there. 8 hour slope and 2 hour thermal? You can do those with a Gentle Lady if the conditions are right. The slope flight is about keeping your concentration for that length of time and the thermal is about hopping around from thermal to thermal for a couple of hours. When the day is right (5 times a year?) you can do it with any plane. XC has always used big planes, even when the LSF started. They had varios. Personally, I turned the one I had off because I wasn't interested in going higher than 3,000 feet because I couldn't see the plane anymore! What good is it having a vario to tell you that you're in great air when you can't even see your plane? -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion
I'm not sure I understand. Does this whole process step 1-5 replace Level 1? If so this is more challenging than the current level 1 But if step 1 is level 1 and step 5 is level 5 (which I think you are representing) then this is very easy. Almost any competent pilot can do the taks. If this is to replace level 1 how will the novice enter. This can be quite a lot for a novice. Bob Johnson wrote: Jeff, Would you perceive the following to be a set of tasks that is at least as difficult as LSF Level 1? Step 1 1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 3 minutes. 2. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 3 minutes but not more than 3 minutes 30 seconds, and a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 3. 5 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 2 minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 3, 4, 5, and 6 minutes. 4. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 4 minutes and a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. Step 2 1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 4 minutes. 2. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 4 minutes but not more than 4 minutes 30 seconds, and landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 3. 5 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 3 minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 4, 5, 6, and 7 minutes. 4. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 4 minutes, and landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 5. Three consecutive flights with an accumulated time of at least 15 minutes. Each of the three flights must be at least 3 minutes in duration. Step 3 1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 5 minutes. 2. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 5 minutes but not more than 5 minutes 30 seconds, and landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 3. 4 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 3 minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 5, 7, and 9 minutes. 4. Three consecutive flights with an accumulated time of at least 15 minutes. Each of the three flights must be at least 3 minutes in duration. All three flights must terminate with a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 5. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 8 minutes and a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. Step 4 1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 6 minutes. 2. 2 flights, each with duration of 5 minutes +/- 25 seconds, and landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 3. 4 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 4 minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 6, 8, and 10 minutes. 4. Three consecutive flights with an accumulated time of at least 15 minutes. Each of the three flights must be at least 3 minutes in duration. All three flights must terminate with a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 5. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 10 minutes and a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. Step 5 1. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 7 minutes. 2. 2 flights, each with duration of 5 minutes +/- 20 seconds, and landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 3. 3 consecutive flights; flight 1 must have a duration of at least 5 minutes. The ensuing flights must have durations of at least 10, and 15 minutes. All three flights must terminate with a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 4. Three consecutive flights with an accumulated time of at least 15 minutes. Each of the three flights must be at least 3 minutes in duration. All three flights must terminate with a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 5. 2 flights, each with duration of at least 12 minutes and a landing in a circle of 25-foot radius. 1. Tasks for a given step can be completed in any order. 2. All tasks for a lower step must be completed before tasks for a higher step can be recognized. 3. All flights must be attested by a second person that is also engaged in the Soaring Achievement Program. 4. All flights must begin with a launch by a hi-start, winch, or hand launch. 5. The sailplane must land on the field for the flight to count. 6. Distances are measured from the tip of the sailplanes nose to the marked spot. The sailplane must not be damaged to the extent that it cannot be flown safely without prior repair and must not be inverted at the end of the landing. 7. Time stops at the instant of the gliders initial contact with the ground. If not, what would you change? Regards, Bob Johnson Fond du Lac, WI -Original Message- From: Jeff Steifel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 10:53 AM To: dharban; rcse Subject: Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion Ok, I won't point and shoot. But the argument is weak about the pick up or sun roof. Go rent a convertible. Others have done it. The goal and return on a short course doesn't mimick the task. The air could be great on the short course because of the landscape. The long
Re: [RCSE] Re: LSF Discussion
I am sorry but in the ESL the point off max can be as little 40 points for an entire contest. I'll assume the same occurs at other contest where top notch pilots frequent. It doesn't happen everywhere, but it does happen more than you think. 5.5 feet won't put you in the top 3... probably not in the top 10. Look, if you made the task something like Saturday or Sunday from 8 am to 5 pm you must have one 10 minute flight with an L4 landing of 90 or better once every hour, with only one attempt an hour. Sun - Wed if you started on Saturday. or Monday - Thurs if you started Sun go out at the same time each daybetween 8-10 am or 5-7pm and put in one 10 minute flight with L4 landing of 90 or better with only one attempt Time of perfect allowed 3 seconds. Once you choose the time to go out you must keep that time for each daily attempt. You must fly the attempt each following day. That would be a serious attempt... Why the comittment is there, the task is quite tough, since you MUST find air each time, and must land each time. The pressure is off from a contest perspective. You aren't guaranteed good air .. by having this you have simulated the difficulty a contest pilot has in that he can't choose his air... he has to fly This is only a thought... but in reality I am sure someone will figure out where I have erred... But 3 in 1 hour is easy...BTW you'll be surprised how easy it is to hit the 10:00. I've got to say that doing it in a contest is still more challenging, and fun. dharban wrote: \"I DON'T GET THE 3 FLIGHTS IN 1 HOUR. THE LSF PROHIBITS THE TD PARTS FROM OCCURRING IN THE SAME DAY FOR A SIMILAR REASON, THE AIR CAN BE GREAT AND A 1 HOUR TIME FRAME SIMPLY MEANS YOU CAN BE FLYING IN GREAT AIR. THAT'S NOT HARD!!!. IF THE AIR IS GOOD IT IS EASY. ALSO LANDING ON AN L4 TAPE WITHOUT THE NERVES OF COMPETITION IS EASY. SO 3 FLIGHTS WITH LANDINGS IN 1 HOUR TO ME ARE QUITE EASY AND DON'T REPRESENT A CHALLENGE.\" I've stated elsewhere that there is no exact equivalent to competition. This alternative proposal is simply that. For those who want the precise challenge of competition there is only one way to get it. The three flights constitute one task. This task must be repeated six times on separate days. The air can be great all day long or it can cycle through every few minutes or anything in between. Another comment on this thread voiced your same concern. If the powers that be believe that lift is likely to be more or less uniform during the one hour period, the requirement can be for three flights to be flown at some other *specified* interval. The point here is to require the pilot to fly in air and at times not of his choosing -- more or less like competition. If you think the task is easy, demonstrate it to yourself by going out and flying the task six times with a 2350 score each time. (50 points from perfection -- I have researched as best I can the kind of scores that win the bigger competitions around the country and I believe a 2350 in this event will put you in the money most of the time -- if I am wrong, please correct me). Let me know when your tasks done -- if you can stand the boredom :) I PERSONALLY DON'T SEE THAT AS A VALID SET OF CHALLENGES. TO ME THIS IS A WATERED DOWN ACHEIVEMENT PROGRAM THAT DOESN'T CHALLENGE ANYONE EXCEPT FOR THE 8 HOUR SLOPE. I'M NOT IMPRESSED. If this should be the final form of the tasks and you are not impressed, don't do it. You may be correct in your assessment that it won't challenge anyone -- the few times I have ventured out of the sticks to the real contests in your world I haven't seen many scores (non-normalized) which are this good. For those who are not familiar with the AMA tasks a 2350 point score would require three flights with perfect 10 minute 0 second times and three landings averaging within 5 1/2 feet if the spot or three perfect spot landings and three flights landing within 2 seconds of the target time or some intermediate combination of flight time precision and flight landing precision). As an alternative, you could increase the points required to increase the difficulty. (It is noteworthy that the result for many of the SC2 events reflect a runway landing -- if this is the AMA L5 landing it awards full landing points for hitting a 5 meter by 5 meter square target). -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion
Damn I did it again. I'm sorry, I didn't realize that this was private. I thought I hit reply instead of reply all, so I added RCSE back. This IS a public apology for going public on something that should have been private. And for everyone out there Please put PRIVATE on the TOP line of your email if you want it to remain that way when responding to RCSE mail. It would make it easier. When mail comes in from [RCSE] sometimes I get used to thinking this is a post from the group, I don't always look at the TO: to see if it was from RCSE as well. But no excuses... Again Sorry Ryan. Ryan Woebkenberg wrote: P.S., thanks for responding to a private email in a public forum that I don't subscribe to. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion
Ryan, is it your intention to have me draft the program? I'm sorry I won't do that. Smarter people than myself came up with the original program. I feel the current program is like the US Constitution. It is very good. It holds up under time. It isn't perfect, but what is? But on the other hand it is perfect What I find interesting is that the arguments today could have been argued years 30 years ago.. The numbers are down. Well go get more people involved. Go bring friends/newcomers to a larger contest. Maybe they will then enjoy it and bring friends/newcomers too.. To do any of the levels you need witnesses. Go enlist friends to come fly and turn them into aspirants. That is what the program is partly about. I can't tell you what would impress me.. because the program already does. Attempts to change it or make a new program are falling short. The program presented by Don dharban and I've been following on the groups falls short. The ideas are very simple, not challenging, not noteworthy. In following the groups I find it also interesting that there are people who say they are willing to do the work to get the program started, but then say the LSF should do this and that. Guys...if you are interested in doing it, get it all prepared think it through, better than you have 3 10 min flights in 1 hour is ridiculous... That isn't hard. In a good air cycle it's easy. My son was bored a couple of weeks ago... He had 3 30 or longer minute flights .. he thought soaring was easy. Then he went to 2 contests and did very poorly at one and reasonably well at the other but did have problems. You see the air he went out in was quite easy.. making him seem like a JW, DP or Tom Kiesling. But he is none of those guys. The contest situation is FLY NOW, find air and make your time... Land for very high points. You minimized it. 3 in one hour. I could think of ways of making it more complicated, but you take out the landing part because in a contest their is a certain amount of pressure... you see you can't give up seconds to get the landing. You have to be right on, on both. In the contest I was at the other day I had to alter my landing pattern for other incoming ships... So for another program to be good it has to be tough... It doesn't have to be the same but 3 10 minute flights in 1 hour...?? Someone wrote me privately the other day to tell me how negative I am... How I can't see a new program being good. Quite the opposite. I am very positive about the OLD program. And if something GOOD comes along I will support that.. It has to be good, anything less will fail. And be certain of this, anything that everyone can do WILL FAIL. Not everyone should be able to do it, otherwise there's no reason to... it's a given. FLAME SHIELD ON. rdwoebke wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: To me this is a watered down acheivement program that doesn't challenge anyone Except for the 8 hour slope. I'm not impressed. What would you be impressed with? Ryan -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Discussion
ng with a total score greater than or equal to 2000* points. All three rounds must be completed within 1 hour. Level V -- Identical with current Level V Thermal Duration and Slope tasks. (I realize that this includes an onerous Slope task which cannot be substituted with another Thermal task. At this level of accomplishment, this is the one compromise in this proposal to the concept of solving the logistics problem (perhaps an exception could be granted for aspirants who do not live within 500 miles or some other such distance from a reasonable slope.) Goal and Return is modified to allow distance to be flown in laps not less than 0.5 KM per full lap (Minimum turning distance are approx. 792 feet.) Competition Requirements Can be fulfilled either in accordance with current Level V Competition requirements as written or by completing any combination of the following competition event equivalents which totals six "competition equivalent events". (A) Placing in a competition event which has 20 or more entrants. (B) Completing a competition equivalent event which consists of three rounds of 10 minute AMA Task T2 (Precision Duration) using an AMA L4 Spot landing with a total score greater than or equal to 2350 points. All three rounds must be completed within 1 hour. For Level V only,in addition to (or as a part of) completing the combination of the 6 competition and/or "competition equivalent" events the aspirant would be required to participate in at least three competition events with more than 25 entrants. (the events used to satisfy this requirement could include events which qualify for (A) above. (I realize this, too, runs counter to Objective #1 above, but at this level of achievement -- reallly thin air -- it does not seem unreasonable to expect the aspirant to do a little more to support Objective #3 above.) *Points suggested for these tasks may need revision. Perhaps LSF can look at results of past LSF events and interpolate better numbers -- or perhaps LSF competitors can suggest appropriate numbers. I prepared this proposal mindful of the criteria set forth in a paper I provided earlier (copy attached). I realize full on that this is just one (perhaps terribly misguided) opinion -- but it seemed to me worthwhile to throw out at a time when the thread seems to be getting caught up in discussion of us vs. LSF. At any rate take it for what it's worth. Don +---+ |Filename: Defining Model Soaring Achievement Levels By Skill Analysis.doc| |Download: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=981065 | +---+ -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] HLG contest in Marlton NJ
The South Jersey Silent Flyers are holding a hand launch contest this weekend. You can sign up and get info at http://www.flyesl.com See the calendar. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] LSF Comments
A little comment about cost. Relative to what it cost at the program inception... RC Soaring/ RC in general and Travel are cheaper today . Gas has not gone up as much as other products. The rate of increase is only recently starting to keep up. RC products in general have come down. Radios are cheaper and more capable . Analog servos are still a bargain. Digis are a little more expensive and may not fit the argument. About contestants. Yep the numbers are dwindling, making it harder in some cases to hold a Level V contest. But in some areas of the country that would never have been possible without travel to begin with. The populations were never there. Also there are some major contests that do meet these requirements. To water down the program will hurt those that have already done it. Also remember this program is international. Do you realize that in Germany they have an A and B league. Also there are some people who have always tried to get around the program. One poster here tried holding a contest where current Level 5's were not allowed, so that he could get his level 5.And also recently tried creating a new class system in the ESL so that the top experts would be moved into a Masters class and the remaining experts could duke it out. Not everyone will get a level 5.. that's the idea of the program. You have to achieve it. I applaud those that have. Programs like this should not be designed so everyone succeeds. What's the point? A level V is not prestigious if everyone achieves it. Do you know why we are dying? Well many clubs don't want to hold contests. Many don't want to be seen. I have heard from club members that adding more members means they won't be able to fly when they want. Funny thing is they don't show up that often in the first place.. but they do vote and get others to believe that nonsense. Some clubs don't want to be seen... Think about it.. Very selfish reasons. Yes there are other reasons... competing with computers, video games... we are not viewed as a cool hobby. As a society I think we are just lazy. We want more for less. Less work more gratification. Many are hooking up with Electrics because they don't have to shag chutes or bring out the equip. For some it is age and they can't hoof the equip. But for others its just convenience. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] LISF 2 open
The Long Island Silent Flyers will be holding it's annual September contest on the 23 and 24th. New to the contests are the Novice class, and Novices can register for FREE. Under 18 and Over 65 are also free for other classes. This is a Man on Man event. Register at http://www.flyesl.com -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] CASA unlimited
BTW the CASA contest is Western VA about an hour west of Washington... This means that it is not a bad trip from OH, TN, KY or the Carolinas... or Northern GA We have had OH and TN, and KY guys show up in the past. So guys take a look at it on the map, and register. http://www.flyesl.com/ -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] CASA unlimited Sept
Guys the CASA unlimited soaring event on Sept 9th and 10th is taking registrations. Goto http://www.flyesl.com/ to register. This is a great event. Frank Thompson hosts this on his airfield/ horse farm. Lift is usually abundant, and a catered dinner is held afterwards. This man is a wonderful host, the conditions have been outstanding for quite a number of years. Frank's hanger is usually stocked with planes and ultra lights. So it is the social event of the season for the ESL. Come on , compete, or just socialize... either way you do it.. it's a great event. Info and registration are on the website http://www.flyesl.com/ -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] f3B TEAM SELECTIONS another thank you
Thanks to Larry Ruble who also showed up and helped. .. Just starting to remember things... -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] US Team Selections PLEASE READ Lets start on the next Cycle now.
Knew I would forget someone... Thanks Dave Hauch for pressing buttons too. Jeff Steifel wrote: Congratulations to the TEAM... Tom, Aaron and Mike. I would like to thank all the helpers that helped during the US F3B Team Selections. Jack, Hutch Robin Marlene Joe (a power flier who just happened to wander by Thanks for helping out) Mark Jim The Loft member with the Mercedes (sorry I didn't get your name). Any others I might have left off sorry. These were dedicated people, and without their dedication this event would never have happened. Thanks Dave for getting the site too. Next I would like to discuss how few helpers we had. We are trying to send a world class team to the Worlds. We need help. There was a time on the field that we couldn't run distance... we had only 2 helpers available for base B. So we ran speed. Luck delivered us 2 more people later and we were able to run distance. While Muncie is a great flying site, it also might be a problem for us as well. 1) It doesn't introduce new people to F3B if we hold it in one place cycle after cycle. 2) We can't rely on the two clubs in the area to provide help cycle after cycle... (LOFT and DARTS). It has to move around to get helpers. Without helpers a team selection can't be done properly. A minimum of 8 workers aside from the CD are necessary. 4 at base A and 4 at base B. If your club would like to host an F3B event for the next cycle, now is a good time to start talking to your fellow club members. Moving the event around introduces the sport to other club members. Some might get hooked up, others may just want to see what can be a very cool event. Many think that F3B is a lot of work. Well truth is, it is and it isn't... You don't have to worry about winches. we provide them all.You don't have to worry about batteries the team members should provide them all. You may have to tell us where we can purchase legal batteries or rent them; if we have to fly in... we may leave the batteries with you (if purchased) when flying out... so your club can have some batteries for your Ford long shafts... We shag our own chutes. We provide most of the equipment necessary. There are a few things needed from your club... A computer to score A battery to run the scoring system, 2 siting devices for base A and B ...( but the AMA might provide that as well) Landing tapes (also might be available from the AMA)... A table to make reading the scoring computer easier... (it can be small) And some other odds and ends...(little flags or cones to mark a safety area)... A few of us have 100 meter tapes for measuring and 2 of us have steel pre-measured cables that can be brought to the event. A timing system is available from the AMA so that doesn't need to be provided. We only have to make an effort to get it prepared to ship after the preceding NATS (F3B nats on an F3B team Cycle year). We've had 5 new comers in the last 2cycles. 2 of which were hooked up just by having their club hold the event... If you are interested in holding an event ping Joe Wurts and start the process now.. Joe can tell you more about it. Lets face it we need to keep the program going. We need to make sure the next generation of world class fliers exist. If they don't see it they won't fly it. When the NATS traveled it introduced people to flying in small communities around the states. I think when it stopped traveling we started sped up the attrition process. Don't let this happen to the FAI programs. Help keep America in it. F3B is a spectator event unlike most soaring events. The distance and speed are on 150 meter closed course and are easy to watch. We have a very good team this year. We have a great group of F3J juniors who made us proud this year. Please support the programs by hosting an event. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] US Team Selections PLEASE READ Lets start on the next Cycle now.
Congratulations to the TEAM... Tom, Aaron and Mike. I would like to thank all the helpers that helped during the US F3B Team Selections. Jack, Hutch Robin Marlene Joe (a power flier who just happened to wander by Thanks for helping out) Mark Jim The Loft member with the Mercedes (sorry I didn't get your name). Any others I might have left off sorry. These were dedicated people, and without their dedication this event would never have happened. Thanks Dave for getting the site too. Next I would like to discuss how few helpers we had. We are trying to send a world class team to the Worlds. We need help. There was a time on the field that we couldn't run distance... we had only 2 helpers available for base B. So we ran speed. Luck delivered us 2 more people later and we were able to run distance. While Muncie is a great flying site, it also might be a problem for us as well. 1) It doesn't introduce new people to F3B if we hold it in one place cycle after cycle. 2) We can't rely on the two clubs in the area to provide help cycle after cycle... (LOFT and DARTS). It has to move around to get helpers. Without helpers a team selection can't be done properly. A minimum of 8 workers aside from the CD are necessary. 4 at base A and 4 at base B. If your club would like to host an F3B event for the next cycle, now is a good time to start talking to your fellow club members. Moving the event around introduces the sport to other club members. Some might get hooked up, others may just want to see what can be a very cool event. Many think that F3B is a lot of work. Well truth is, it is and it isn't... You don't have to worry about winches. we provide them all.You don't have to worry about batteries the team members should provide them all. You may have to tell us where we can purchase legal batteries or rent them; if we have to fly in... we may leave the batteries with you (if purchased) when flying out... so your club can have some batteries for your Ford long shafts... We shag our own chutes. We provide most of the equipment necessary. There are a few things needed from your club... A computer to score A battery to run the scoring system, 2 siting devices for base A and B ...( but the AMA might provide that as well) Landing tapes (also might be available from the AMA)... A table to make reading the scoring computer easier... (it can be small) And some other odds and ends...(little flags or cones to mark a safety area)... A few of us have 100 meter tapes for measuring and 2 of us have steel pre-measured cables that can be brought to the event. A timing system is available from the AMA so that doesn't need to be provided. We only have to make an effort to get it prepared to ship after the preceding NATS (F3B nats on an F3B team Cycle year). We've had 5 new comers in the last 2cycles. 2 of which were hooked up just by having their club hold the event... If you are interested in holding an event ping Joe Wurts and start the process now.. Joe can tell you more about it. Lets face it we need to keep the program going. We need to make sure the next generation of world class fliers exist. If they don't see it they won't fly it. When the NATS traveled it introduced people to flying in small communities around the states. I think when it stopped traveling we started sped up the attrition process. Don't let this happen to the FAI programs. Help keep America in it. F3B is a spectator event unlike most soaring events. The distance and speed are on 150 meter closed course and are easy to watch. We have a very good team this year. We have a great group of F3J juniors who made us proud this year. Please support the programs by hosting an event. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: RE: [RCSE] US F3B Team Selections
That information will come out after the Team Selection. They must pick a manager and get the process of raising money going. George Voss wrote: Where can we buy F3B USA merchandise like shirts? I'll be supporting the team again this year. gv -Original Message- From: Jeff Steifel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:16 PM To: rcse Subject: [RCSE] US F3B Team Selections This week at the AMA site will be the US F3B Team Selections. I would like to thank in advance all volunteers that make this possible. If you can volunteer and haven't talked to Jack Iafret or Marc Gellart there's still time. For those that haven't seen F3B, you are missing something. The TD part you know... 10minutes (always) 1 meter /per 5 point landing without skegs. The Distance is the most fun part in my opinion. Distance is like racing and yahting. Know when to go slow and when to go fast. When its fast well its loads of fun Speed, is just that... FAST... 4 legs with ballast and fast turns. Smooth, short, and fast wins. Times for the 600 meters can range from 14-23 seconds... It all depends on the air. So if you can make it you are sure to see some cool stuff going on. I am hoping that some of you get hooked enough to want to try it sometime... We need more fliers if we are too compete on a world class level. If you can help, and watch even better. If you can't volunteer, I hope you can make it too watch... Unlike TD this IS a spectator sport since distance and speed have something to watch... Learning to FLY F3B WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER PILOT... See ya all there... And thanks again volunteers. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] US F3B Team Selections
This week at the AMA site will be the US F3B Team Selections. I would like to thank in advance all volunteers that make this possible. If you can volunteer and haven't talked to Jack Iafret or Marc Gellart there's still time. For those that haven't seen F3B, you are missing something. The TD part you know... 10minutes (always) 1 meter /per 5 point landing without skegs. The Distance is the most fun part in my opinion. Distance is like racing and yahting. Know when to go slow and when to go fast. When its fast well its loads of fun Speed, is just that... FAST... 4 legs with ballast and fast turns. Smooth, short, and fast wins. Times for the 600 meters can range from 14-23 seconds... It all depends on the air. So if you can make it you are sure to see some cool stuff going on. I am hoping that some of you get hooked enough to want to try it sometime... We need more fliers if we are too compete on a world class level. If you can help, and watch even better. If you can't volunteer, I hope you can make it too watch... Unlike TD this IS a spectator sport since distance and speed have something to watch... Learning to FLY F3B WILL MAKE YOU A BETTER PILOT... See ya all there... And thanks again volunteers. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Congrats to the US team
Juniors wa to go You guys were awesome. You guys made us proud. You are the world champions and world champion team... way to go. Seniors... nice team showing too. We are all looking forward to hearing the whole story from the pilots perspective. Daryl thanks for waking me up... -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] F3J World Champs Update
Notice that Joe walked on the FIN... I see is barefoot marks... I guess Don didn't have to think to hard on how to give Joe a TRADEMARK :-) James V. Bacus wrote: Joe makes it famous, I made it infamous. At 09:38 AM 8/3/2006, tony estep wrote: BTW, check out Joe's Icon http://www.rcmklub.sk/wcf3j2006/dnldwatermark.php?fname=../../foto_albumy/foto_492.jpg That looks to be the Barney color scheme made famous by Jim Bacus. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537 LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Need an F3B ship for the Team Selections
Ok, guys , I need to buy a plane. My primary turned to dust a couple of weeks ago... Anyone have a current F3B ship they want to sell.. MUST BE F3B layup. Primary choices... Crossfire, Mike's F3B :-) , Victor Also will consider older planes for right price. I saw a ship the other day 6 years old and they wanted more than the price when it was new.. forget it...its not happening. Also prefer all digital... -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Thinking of 2 Meters
Well you don't seem bothered by a very sensitive plane. So it seems like maybe your incidence measurements might be inaccurate. The dive test is a poor test of proper CG as the wing builds up speed it creates more lift. You didn't tuck either which indicates you have more to go... Flying inverted is helpful. All together sensitivity, dive, and inverted flight are better. Also dead air time is a good indicator. Brian Agnew wrote (in RC Soaring) about testing CG years ago by going out at 6am and flying ... pulling out nose weight until the flight suffered. This is still subjective as we all don't fly the same each time. Mark Miller wrote: Just a general question that has nothing to do with 2 meter planes but sailplanes in general. I had a first flight of a sailplane awhile back. I did the dive test and flew inverted. Felt nose heavy. Took out lead. Did it again...took out lead...did it a few more times. All the while putting in down trim to keep it flying level. I get to the point where I notice that the decilage (sp) is massively wrong. LOTS of down stab to keep the plane flying level. Like 1/4" from zero. Take note that in a dive test it is still pulling up to much. So, the question is should I keep moving the CG back and keep making the decilage further off or do I put the CG so that I have zero or very little decilage angle. BTW...It has a full flying stab. I would think having so much decilage would cause a lot of dragOpinions? Mark Miller RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: 2M Rambles
Actually Dave, this is a perfect place to go into detail. There has been so much dribble and little info that it is refreshing. David Register wrote: It's a little tough to go into too much more detail on RCSE. Also probably not of general interest to everyone on the list. Is this topic of sufficient interest to open a 2M forum on RCGroups where some more detailed numbers, graphs etc. can be posted. Or does such a forum already exist? -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Further 2-Meters thoughts
Ok, lets dispel the cost issue. There is a minor difference in cost for a RES two meter vs RES unlimited. either can be inexpensive or expensive (AVA like) There is a minor diff in cost for a full house 2m vs a full house unlimited. apples to apples. there is a larger diff between a res and anything full house. Competition makes you a better pilot. Competition can be great fun if you understand you will win and lose. Not everyone will be JW's or DP's, get over it and have some fun. THE HOBBY NEEDS MORE YOUTHS!!! Ed Wilson and the rest of the LASS club have done a great thing in supporting Lee. There is a good amount of time and effort being put into that young guy and it doesn't go unnoticed. I think we are all appreciative. Lee may be the next generation of fliers to carry the torch that allows the legacy of soaring to continue... Ben Wilson wrote: I don't think that 2-meter is in jeopardy, though I would like to make a few points to reinforce it's importance in the overall soaring world: 1. This hobby needs more youth(s) to continue to grow. 2. Youths (and many new soarers) don't have the experience or the money to fly big ships. 3. Soaring is and will remain a hobby where competition is part and parcel of the experience. 4. 2-meter at the NATS allows those new fliers to compete at a national level in an event that they alone (and not their plane) are the determining factor. Ed Wilson achieved something special this year: he mentored a young dude with a small ship (but big dreams) with the intention of taking him to the NATS. It's a great goal, and one that we think will keep Lee and others like him in this hobby. 2-meter at the NATS is the perfect event to show new fliers what soaring is all about. Since we already have, and will hopefully continue to have, a 2-meter competition -- all we need is more Lee's, right? :) -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: ***SPAMTAGPTD: Re: [RCSE] 2 Meter Comments
when I started I flew 2 meter. then went to open then got another 2
meter... A Slegers 2M Spectrum w/3021 airfoil. What a great little
plane that was.
I flew it against the unlimited and did well at club contests and did
ok at the ESL.
I loved that plane. Then came planes like the Grand Esteem and my
little 2M was a closet flier. I couldn't get that plane out of the
closet at all.
Didn't care, I had an Esteem Then my Spectrum went in at the Nats
when a fellow ESLer was on my frequency during a flight. He was moved
for one round and forgot to replace his module... Damn good plane gone
to waste. It had more squares due to the tripple taper than my current
Fazer which has double taper. So forgetting the AR the more squares in
a 2m the better it seems. Since you are limited by span... too much
chord though and you'll be draggy and useless (NO SCIENTIFIC data
here)... Be light like the Organic and you'll be good too... The 2M
mantis is light and does well.
But ITS THE PILOT..
But now that I fly unlimited exclusively I find the little sports car
2M... a handfulthey just turn damn fast, launch ok, and spec out
real quick...
Man I gotta build an Agea type plane... to beat up on a Duck.
QUACK
The views expressed here are strictly my own. In no way does RCSE
support my rantings...
And yes next year I will bring a can of BEANO to avoid the bean fields..
Signed :-( :-( :-( :-( 4 bean field landings
in unlimited Jeff. But I almost spanked some of you guys :-)
Thomas Koszuta wrote:
I guess I should
have made the question more obviously rhetoric to provoke others to
answer. I do like the 2M birds as much or better than the bigger
ones. I wanted to see what "you's guys" thought.
Tom Koszuta
-
Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent:
Monday, July 31, 2006 11:55 AM
Subject:
Re: [RCSE] 2 Meter Comments
In a message dated 7/31/2006 10:40:57 A.M. Central Daylight
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
So why are there different events for the same thing?
I personally like to fly 2 Meter cuz I can
throw one in the back of my truck and fly solo with a mini-high start
... don't need a winch nor even a helper ... it's good practice and I
am continually learning to 'read' air better, hone my skills and having
a grand ol' time ...
Were I to concentrate solely on a large
sailplane, I wouldn't get nearly as much flying done as I currently do
...
IMHO only ...
Pepper
TPG ~ SLNT
AMA # 3937
LSF # 3335 - IV
--
Jeff Steifel
RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Full NATS Unlimited Scores!
What are you talking about ... there were an abundance of thermals... Just lots of wind to get you down wind really fast.. :-( :-( :-( :-( Ben Wilson wrote: I had these at 4:19 PM ready to go to the web, but my lil' laptop just wouldn't connect to the AMA's excellent WiFi network that covers the entire field! Anyway -- http://louisvillesoaring.org/tmp/20060727-nats-unl-01-day_two_scores.jpg http://louisvillesoaring.org/tmp/20060727-nats-unl-02-day_two_scores.jpg Absolutely terrible thermalling weather made for an absolutely excellent contest! Lots of fun and a real education on one of the best soaring sites in the world. ben wilson louisville area soaring society (home of the 2006 Spirit of Soaring award!) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Register for the CRRC open 8/12-13 Near Boston Mass
Hey what are you waiting for... Check out the following link and register for a great north eastern contest. Only 2 weeks away. http://www.flyesl.com/calendar.asp -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Get out those Hand Launch Gliders guys
Not too far from Boston,, get together with some of the top East Coast Hand Launch guys. That means you can fly in the day and dinner and drink at some of Bostons finer pubs This contest on the 15th and 16th of July is a good warm up for the Nats. See the ESL calendar to register. http://www.flyesl.com/calendar.asp -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Contest Daniel Boone Homestead Reading PA
While the EAST COAST gets socked in with Rain many of you are probably getting grumpy pilot syndrome. GPS can affect all of us. Go register for the Daniel Boone contest On July 8th. You need it.. See: http://www.flyesl.com/calendar.asp Now go register. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Problems with GE Silicone II
I think it is a big mistake using silicone. One there is no way to decontaminate it short of sanding to the layer past it. But as you sand it pushes it down so you have to change paper frequently and vacuum it out. Two ... it doesn't get along with electrical components. Three the cure is too slow and any repair will require a repair with silicone. Four there are better products. Epoxy, if you need flexibility there is hot glue or PFM like glues. Robert Samuels wrote: I installed two JR 281 servos in a HL pod made of hybrid Kevlar/carbon cloth using GE Silicone II. After a bit of use one servo popped loose. I reinstalled it with Silicone II. The Silicone did not cure. I tested the Silicone by squeezing a bead on a piece of paper in the open and it did not cure. I got a new tube. Tested it in the open and it cured. Re-installed the servo and the portion of the Silicone that squeezed out from beneath the servo cured but the film between the servo and the pod did not. Then the servo quit working. No response whatsoever. I don't know if the servo failure is related to anything. I don't know what's going on at all. Can anyone help me? I'd like to use Goop but I think I'm locked into using Silicone since I used it first. Am I correct? Or is there a way of decontaminating the Siliconed surface? Robert Samuels ... St. Louis _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Double posts
Mike doesn't take care of it anymore. I think Lex does. glide wrote: This issue happens every so often. I'm pretty sure Mike L. will take care of it. For now, just grin and bear... -Original Message- From: David Whitaker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 3:46 PM To: RCSE Subject: [RCSE] Double posts I am receiving 2 of every post made. Can anyone help? Dave RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] last minute registration
Registration will be closing soon for The LISF open... This Man on Man contest is in Long Island NY. You can register online at http://www.flyesl.com/calendar.asp -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Zenith and Espada opinions needed.
Looking for a new plane, Can I get opinions likes and dislikes about the Zenith and Espada by current and former owners. Thanks. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Better Stand
Tom, weren't you making an improved stand? inventorforhire wrote: Dave Buffmire is the builder: Last email address I have for him is: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Let me know what you find out. Tom - Original Message - From: "Michael Conte" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "RCSE ((RCSE))'" Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:43 AM Subject: [RCSE] Better Stand Hello to all: Is the "better stand" still available these days? Do the people that own them use them often? Sincerely, MIke Las Vegas, NV RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Upcoming Contests
The first unlimited contest of the ESL season is coming up June 10th and 11th at Silent Knights Soaring Society in Newark Delaware. Followed by the Polecat Challenge HLG on June 17th and 18th in Bloserville, PA. Then the Long Island Silent Flyers on June 24th and 25th , in Syosset , NY (LI) You can visit the ESL website which will have links to the clubs involved and also offers online registration. http://www.flyesl.com/calendar.asp -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Carbon-fiber reinforcement for Alcyone wing; vacuum bagging with a Foodsaver
You wouldn't put it on the bias on the spar, you would use prepreg on the spar. The bias is for the wing. Jon Stone wrote: Jeff, Depends if the author desires strengthening the spar for launch, or making the wing torsionally stiff.He didn't say. Either way, I'd avoid the carbon mat, as it typically soaks up a lot of epoxy. Actually on the 45 it prevents torsion roll of the wing on launch, but you won't launch the Alcyone hard enough with that wing rod so I would only cap the spar. Don't add the weight of the skin Mine was more than strong, I kept bending wing rods. I had to be gentle Why would you put CF on the bias and then put it only over the spar? Again, knowing the rest of the plane is not made for gorilla launches, adding .007 precured uni-carbon over & under the spar would be more than adequate for this plane. Jon -- Jeff Steifel 908-996-1377 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Carbon-fiber reinforcement for Alcyone wing; vacuum bagging with a Foodsaver
Jon Stone wrote: I am about to apply skins to my Alcyone 3M, and I want to reinforce the wings with carbon fiber. What's better: carbon tow or carbon mat? you want tow, not carbon mat. You want all the fibers spanwise oriented (same direction as the spar) NO!.. you want to cap the spars with pre-preg carbon You want 45 degree bias weave on the skins.. Will the thickness of the carbon fiber be a problem under the balsa skins? How wide a strip should I apply? Spread the carbon out, maybe with a roller, 2-3" wide. Center it right over the spar. If the thickness is .007 or less, it will be no problem. What's the best way to apply the carbon for the best adherence to both the core and the skin? Should I apply epoxy to the core where the carbon will be, lay in the carbon and then apply the skins? Should I apply the carbon to the skins first and then to the cores? 1) I would fully wet out the tow separate from any components. 2) apply epoxy to the skins. NOO! you will gain too much weight if you epoxy the skins... epoxy the carbon and squeeze out the excess. 3) quickly remove most of the epoxy with a credit card (by scraping) to remove all extra epoxy before it can soak into the wood. It will already have soaked in 4) Apply wetted out tow to the skin. 5) Use a hard roller to spread the fibers to the desired width. Take care to keep all the fibers STRAIGHT and spanwise oriented. I have considered applying a wide strip of carbon between the leading edge of the core the trailing edge of the spar (on both upper and lower surfaces), all along the main wing panel from the root to the junction with the tip panels. Is that too much CF? I'd like to make the wings as strong as I can to avoid folding them on launch. Yes. Only carbon around the 25%, centered around the spar will do much for bending strength. The rest of the carbon (up to the LE) is only for ding resistance. Actually on the 45 it prevents torsion roll of the wing on launch, but you won't launch the Alcyone hard enough with that wing rod so I would only cap the spar. Don't add the weight of the skin Mine was more than strong, I kept bending wing rods. I had to be gentle Has anyone tried vacuum bagging small parts, like stabs, in a Foodsaver? It occurs to me that the Foodsaver might work well, provided it can produce enough pressure. You can try it, but I don't recommend it... unless you can guarantee no leaks in the bag until the epoxy fully cures. Now, for the question you didn't ask. Tow is a pain to use. Go buy some .007 pre-cured carbon strips about 3" wide. Apply one top and bottom to each wing, centered over the spar, from the root to 75% of the span. This is not "optimal", but will strengthen your wing significantly. This is exactly how the Sapphire wings are made. They have a 30" carbon tube spar, also. I'm assuming your wings already have a substantial spar, and the carbon is just to add additional strength. If this skin carbon is the ONLY spar you have, ignore everything above. If you still want to use tow, practice the entire process on a small "test" part. Best wishes, Jon RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] FS: X-21 (NIB)
Tom what do you mean red stripped bottoms??? what is the other color? Not yellow with red stripes? Tom Watson wrote: New and still untouched X-21, in UHM Carbon. 126" span, MH32 foil, two-piece wing, X-tail. Ultra-stiff construction and six (6) ballast tubes. Yellow top with red striped bottoms and red points. Reduced to $1,250 shipped to ConUS. Funding another F3B project. Tom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] F3B
Hey I resemble that... :-P But get the spelling right I've heard that people take dollars from you so not always Daryl Perkins wrote: Jeff writes: I've made comments like - 17 second launch... but Steiffel will go 19... ;-) I'm always on the money... -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] F3B
Ok here's the skinny. Harry DeBoer wrote: OK Now that most of the smoke has cleared, where can we find more out about F3B; 1. what are the task? F3B is a multi task event. 3 Tasks Distance, speed, duration. You are all familiar with duration except... there is only 1 task (10 minutes no variations). You can launch multiple times too since you are given a working time window. So if the air is really bad and it stinks so bad that you feel relaunching will get you more time go for it. Also landing is 5 points per meter and no skegs , mass launch or wait if you want. You are flying MOM Distance: you launch against other pilots. you must ask for permission to launch... your working time is 7 minutes and the on course time is 4 minutes. In that 4 minutes you have to do as many laps as possible. You don't have a landing task so you can land at the far end of the field if it will get you another lap. You follow good air and go fast in good air, you try to lose as little alt as possible during each lap. If you are getting beat by someone with better air you can relaunch as long as you have enough working time left to get more laps than you have. Once working time ends so does your count. so if you had 2 minutes left of 4 and the 7 ran out you only were on course for 2 minutes... but that might be better than a total of 4 if the air was reallly good. When there is good air this is the most fun part of F3B... its a horse race... its a strategy when the air is iffy. You are flying MOM Speed:Speed is considered the luck factor. You don't fly MOM only 1 pilot at a time... so the air can change drastically from beginning to end. You have a 2 minute working time and must do 4 legs ... you enter the course from BASE A fly to base B back to A , back to B then cross the finish line at A as fast as you can. ballast is necessary to carry speed and not lose altitude. 2. what equipment is needed?(suppliers) For F3B winches are needed and a good plane. To start with you don't need an F3B winch... you can practice with a TD setup. Same for the plane, as you learn you will need to consider a change. F3B uses mono to launch and a brake that prevents unspooling of the drum. This lockup of the drum allows the line to build tension... This is where launches that exceed Ford long shafts are possible. The energy in the mono is spectacular. With a TD brake there is no lockup so the line will unspool... this isn't allowed in F3B. Also power in an F3B winch is reduced by meeting a certain resistance. Ballast, mono, a plane capable of ballasting. A plane capable of extreme launches... If you already have an F3J ship you will be able to start. If you don't have a spar don't use mono. You will need 2 watches too... And a tripod 3. how do you get started? Find someone to do it with you. Why first it is a team event. Second it makes it easier to learn. One can call turns and tell you when you aren't flying straight (to the course).Of course if you have someone who already knows it will be easier. If you are interested after reading all this send me an email and I will give you my phone to help you thru some of the basics. 4. what airplanes qualify? The planes are usually F3B planes for strength and speed. But if you have an F3J plane you probably can start right away, you might not be fast but you will be capable.Again you need a spar if you fly mono. If you are just trying it on braided line any plane will teach you the basics... 5. about how much dose it cost to compete? As a team you buy line for the event. So in the area of 25 - 40 / spool depending on where you get the line and what line you get. I use new line during contests and turn it into practice line after. If it breaks it's repairable for practice but at a contest you don't usually have time to repair it. 6. on average how many people do you need to run a contest? That depends, you need 2 at least per team... but let me tell you 2 is tough (I know I did it at the last TS and won't do that again)... 4 is right, the TS will have 6 man teams you can hold a contest with a few 3 man teams if you want... so at minimum probably 12 pilots... for a decent contest. Getting together with people who already know how will remove alot of the learning curve. Give it a try... if you have a contest with beginners by all means use TD winches to get them flying... just separate the mono and braided... braided line saws thru mono real quick. I hope some of the other F3B'ers will throw stuff out there. seriously would like to know Harry -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off
Re: [RCSE] Soaring Nats Entries
Yep, but guaranteeing a individual and team medal is not a sure thing. Numbers do guarantee continued support. And once you have lost support it is almost impossible to get it back. The question is: Do you want the USA to field a team for the "REAL" WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS? Shouldn't the nationals support an event that will be challenged in the WORLDS? I doubt I will ever make the team, but I intend on supporting those gifted pilots who can, whether it be F3J or F3B. I wish more of you guys would figure out that flying F3B can make you a better pilot... And is a kick in the pants. Then maybe we can have some fun. Ever watch a distance event in good air... Man it's exciting racing back and forth listening to fast buzzers... even when you are not flying you are on a team and it is non stop action.. Ask some of the slope racers. rdwoebke wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The AMA has decided that if you don't have a minimum of I think 20 contestants then they won't support that event anymore. Jeff, My understanding is this is not correct. My read on the AMA's recent FAI team support plan is that as long as the US team takes at least a team or individual medel every other WC then the AMA will support the team. Or if there were regularly 20 or 25 or whatever people trying out for the team. Ryan -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Soaring Nats Entries
There is another issue with F3X ... in the last few cycles the world were RIGHT on top of the Nats. This prevents some probable F3Xers from going for the following reasons. The Worlds are during the same week and transportation is a problem, packing is a problem. Risking the airplane during the same week is a too risky ... They would rather risk it during practice at the worlds (DARYL) . Time off from work . The problem is not only related to F3B, F3J suffers the same... but usually has more TD pilots willing to jump in. There will be more entries in F3B... This year there is the problem of getting new frequency modules for some too. Since some channels were not available to normal F3B'ers. Right now the Nats is the only F3B event in the country aside from the Team Selections... Should we just call it a day and say we won't compete in the worlds then? Becasue that's what will happen if the TS is the only comp The AMA has decided that if you don't have a minimum of I think 20 contestants then they won't support that event anymore. Remove the Nats and we are sure to drop F3B as a team event. Then the US will be a NO SHOW since you can't get there without recognition from the AMA. Harry DeBoer wrote: F3B entries = 5 oops we didn't want to go there! -Original Message- From: Bill's Email [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 12:00 PM To: RCSE Soaring Exchange Subject: [RCSE] Soaring Nats Entries Interesting numbers from the LSF-NATS Entry pages. Unlimited entries = 62 RES entries = 52 2M entries = 40 (65% of UNL, 77% of RES) RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] 3110 Motor
I'll assume you are talking about the bearing for the shaft. you can heat the bearing up in an oven and press it over the shaft You don't need 400 about 150 should expand it enough without harming the seal. Check the fit of the drum I'll bet it fits ok to the shaft. You don't want to turn the shaft if it fits. George L Meyers wrote: About a year ago I bought a 3110 starter motor for my winch. When I tried to install my Real Balls I found that the shaft is too big. Can you turn the shaft down or sand it down to fit? George MeyersWD6EQS Fresno, California Graduierte, schule der harten klopfen RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel 908-996-1377 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] "I pity the fool doesn't have a Sharon X tail :-)"
I used to use a 470mu capacitor to reduce noise. using a resistor doesn't sound right to me. Any ieee guys want to comment. Jeff who rarely agrees with anything Gordy says ... And I am in Florida and hopefully Gordy isn't 8>) "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > Louisville was...perfect today. > > Light winds, blue sky lots of challenging lift. If you found it you were > wayyy up. > > One of our newer pilots Tony Utley had his Vandal tuned up and flying well > today so he went of his first LSF3 30 minute duration and got it no problem. > > I have been having lots of jittery servo action on my planes because of the > combo of synth module, synth RX and high power servos (Volz Micro Maxx XP) so > I tried an old trick I had done on a noisy plane about 15 years ago. > > I soldered a 56K resistor (small) to the servo's lead connections on the > amplifiers...You just carefully jumper the negative and signal connections. > Simple to do, and takes up very little space inside the servo case. Worked > really well! > > I found them at Radio Shack but had to get a $12 pack of mixed sizes. I > only did the Ailerons since the leads are really long in that huge wing. > > I always set my Talking Timer for 10min countdown tasks and today was no > exception. Since I have decided to learn the Sharon, my goal for today was > to > continue to optimize it launches. Unlike most that I have met and John > Luetke's recommendation I have the tow hook all the way back. I have a little up > elevator and decided on about 3/8" full span launch camber. I find that > while > it doesn't launch like the Giant, I am getting really consistent pings. > > Next step will be to install my Picolario for final set up mixes. > > The Sharon is substantially different than other ships that I have flown. I > find that patience is the key to this ship. It moves around the sky really > well, specially when you get the tips set right for reflex. (7037) I keep > the wing un-cambered when I am looking for lift. Just get it set up trim > wize > so that it is moving smoothly hands off...and then watch its speed. The new > horizontal stab is pretty big, so when it hits lift the tail really goes up, > but the plane is so big, sometimes its a little hard to see that happen so > watching the speed is more reliable...especially when its at a distance. > > Its huge wingspan really lets it travel long distances while burning the > clock. > > I was lucky to be hanging with DP at the Nats, so I really had time to watch > his Sharon fly, well until it disappeared in the haze. But my real interest > was tweaked at Calgary last year when it was the number one choice of almost > every team, when the lift got light. > > It was what got my interest up in the Sharon. I have two planes that I > really love. The Pike Superior and now the GiantI have learned the Superior > and have a jump on the Giant, but the Sharon has a special attraction to me. > Its mixed foil is a challenge, both in set up and characteristics. > > If you have an X tail Sharon, lets hear about your experiences and any tips > you might have learned. > > I guess its time I made up a Skeg, I have been hitting the spot but sliding > thru about 3'. > I've also need to tweak my balance point...its pretty forward for my taste. > It works, but I find that a little extra lead in the nose causes a lot of > extra speed in the landing zone. > > The Sharon quest continues :-) > > Gordy > Michigan this Thursday, Puerto Vallarta Sunday, LA next Friday > > > -- -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Mid-South website
No but you have a perfect picture of some guy with a plane standing next to Gordy. What more do you need. :-) Ben Wilson wrote: Speaking of that - anyone got any high resolution photos of Gordy, specifically from the neck up? Ping me privately if you do :) Tom Kallevang wrote: The donkey is wearing an "I Beat Gordy" button tk -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Durable Paint?
Worse than a carcinogen is that Imron is additive and will destroy your liver. It never purges from your system. I have heard about guys that died after spraying IMRON too many times without a respirator.. Always spray with at least a basic volatile orgranic filter respirator or a pump. I happen to have both.. The pump style of respirator is also excellent for 2 part systems... I agree about Krylon being too soft... white nearly turns black by the end of a couple of flying sessions and can't be cleaned off. George Voss wrote: Frankly, I hate Krylon. It scratches easily and isn't very durable in my opinion. For the best paint, use Imron. The problem with it of course is that it's a carcinogen. It's VERY bad stuff. Next on the list would be the old K&B if you can find some. Klass Kote is the best paint currently available. It's expensive and you'll need at least an airbrush, but a small spray gun is better. As for surface prep, I sand or scrape the joint line and wet sand the entire nose cone with 600 or 1000 grit sandpaper wet. Use 3M fine line masking tape. It's a type of plastic and it stretches around corners fairly well. If you are shooting over white and you are using a dark canopy color, you can shoot a dust coat, wait 15 minutes, shoot a flow coat and remove the tape while the paint is still wet. If not, use white primer over the canopy area and then shoot the color. Let the painted nose cone sit in a heated area for 3-4 days untouched. Sand the edges of the canopy so they blend in with the nose cone. I put 3M pinstripe tape around the paint line and then clear coat the entire nose cone. I've got some photos of a finished nose cone if you want to see one. If you want a rattle can finish, use Rustoleum. Be aware that you will need to allow the paint to dry in a heated area for at least 3 days before handling or you will get fingerprints. Other than that, use the same method as above except heat the spray can with hot tap water prior to spraying. It will keep the paint from shooting blobs out of the nozzle. Also, if maximum finish points are desired, use a new can of paint. Sometimes old, used cans will shoot blobs out, even when heated. gv -Original Message- From: Ben Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 7:33 AM To: RCSE Subject: Re: [RCSE] Durable Paint? Take a look at Phil Barnes' post on "Mantis Fuselage Finishing" here: http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44 Photos and such as well... Sheldon-YNT uDesign wrote: I'm just finishing my new Soprano (finally) and would like some advice on what "brand" paint I can use to spray on as a "canopy" on the nosecone...Something that is reasonably durable, that won't mark-up too easily or readily scuff off. Anyone have any tips on either the paint to be used and surface prep? T'would be appreciated... TIA, Sheldon~YNT RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Supra possible repair
To add to what Jim said the plate doesn't need to exactly match the curve, wax the bolt, polish it, wax it again polish it or use pva and splooge a mixture of epoxy and microballoons between the plate and fuse. For the stress here a little more epoxy than a normal light splooge... you want strength not necessarily light weight. That will take up any deficiencies in the plate, and relieve the fuse distortions.. Jim Porter wrote: If really needed, I think it's possible to add a plywood plate with a second threaded nut or insert to the inside of the fuselage below the pylon for the front wing bolt. It would need to match the inside curve of the fuselage to minimize load distortion of the fuselage. Depending on the thickness of the plywood plate it might also need to have some relief to clear the ballast tube, although it appears that there is at least 1/4" between the top of the fuselage and the ballast tube. It should be possible to locate the plate by using a LONG fully threaded bolt that passes through the existing threads and picks up the threads in the added plate. Either epoxy or medium CA should be sufficient to hold the plate in place as all loads on the plate should be in tension. I plan on flying my Supra as it's originally built, but I will keep a close watch on the integrity/rigidity of the front threaded insert. This may be especially critical after ANY landing that torques the pylon, perhaps breaking the bond between the spooge retaining the threaded insert and the insides of the pylon. regards, Jim Porter Johnston Iowa USA "The airplane stays up because it doesn't have the time to fall." Orville Wright RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] How-To Video Ideas
Actually one of the best video producers for how to's is in the control line arena. Windy Urtnowski is a master scratch builder. Watching his videos is both extremely informative and can be entertaining. Windy somehow can talk and chew gum at the same time :-) ... He makes it entertaining at times, joking around.. The great thing about Windy is that if you watch enough videos you will realize that while on one video he tells you to do it this way on another he'll show you a different way to get to the same point.. But he will always tell you why you don't want to do something, why it would be detrimental... Why it would cause stress to the airframe. Although the production quality is still no where near what some of the Glider videos are like. Some of his best works are very rough video, but they take you through the details and tricks. Windy has one more concourse awards than any other pilot I am aware of. I was taught by Windy personally. My first solo scratch built put me in the front row at the Nats. I couldn't have had a better teacher. He showed me engineering, simple but effective ways to build... For anyone that builds from scratch, the techniques are the same, although our disciplines are vastly different (power C/L vs sailplane).. But the engineering basics are the same. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: "UPS" powered winch for DLGs,
Very cool... Yep, you have too much time on your hands... You remind me of a local friend One question since it is controlled by your tranny that is also controlling your plane, do you have an arming switch? I could see the slider getting knocked and making a mess out of everything. Hey Mike does he remind you of anyone.? Jo Grini wrote: Some years ago (nov.01 in my diary) I made a small winch for a scratch built model I made (made from scrap materials). I did it all just for fun. Guess I had too much time at the moment! I used a speed 400 motor, small Rx and 7 cells. I operated the winch with my transmitter so that I could adjust the power. I even used it indoor. Very cool. Zoom of hard and "smack" in the ceiling ;-) Did not need a trunaround but tried that also. The only problem was that the line was so thin that it could easily become a mess. http://www.workflow.as/jogrini/diary/vinsj/vinsj.jpg http://www.workflow.as/jogrini/diary/vinsj/vinsj_deksel_l.jpg http://www.workflow.as/jogrini/diary/dag257/vinsj_phonix.jpg Hilsen (Regards) Jojo NEW: www.jojoen.no Flew Pike Perfect just a few hours ago... Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 09:29:37 -0500 From: "inventorforhire" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: "UPS" powered winch for DLGs, Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --=_NextPart_000_0010_01C648DC.24C36CF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Here's a quick idea. Get a small wiper motor from junk yard for $5 - $10 = or someplace like this: http://www.73.com/a/0082.shtml Make sure it can free turn, or you will need a needle clutch bearing on = the spool and a couple of collars. =20 I got a UPS (computer back up) battery from Wilson Trucking Surplus for = $8 (you might even get a free one from some company that discards them = every couple of years), the board and 2x2 from scrap, the eye screw for = .30, the receiver for $18, the servo for $10, the leaf switch from Radio = Shack for $2.49. The wire to receiver is a standard R/C charging = switch. The wire to motor and switch is just some heavier wire. Fishing = line would be Firewire or something like that. Using a momentary switch = on the radio, you can run it to launch your HL. Basically, you can make = this for under $50. Anyhow, I posted a quick concept drawing here: http://www.adesigner.com/brass/dlgwinch.htm Tom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Another Fazer question
Well, can't answer the Fazer question. But most current airfoils aren't real good with camber. They are so clean that most don't like camber to cruise. Add a little camber and it becomes a pig... But in some air you can add camber, usually in positive air. As for the camber on the stick vs slider. I am curious why you are reveresed. It would be easier to fine tune camber using a slider than a stick. I fly two sticks. I mix my rudder, but once I am thermalling I hold rudder and adjust my ailerons all the time. so I would find it difficult to fine tune camber while flying rudder I guess the heli guys are good at doing 4 things at a time... but camber is such a critical thing, don't you feel that you are moving it too much if it is on your stick You mentioned a competitor in Europe, you really have to know your sources... Like if Gordy were to give you the advice you can pretty much chuck it.. If Joe or Daryl give you advice it is probably pretty sage advice. You must always know who your sources are and where they are coming from. That doesn't mean Gordy doesn't have good advice from time to time... you just have to know where it is coming from and measure it. There are alot of opinions out there. And opinions are like Now since you fly reverse, what does it matter what I think... It doesn't! Fly what you are comfortable with.. go test your theory on a dead air night and see how flying the camber affects your airplane. Then fly it with no camber and see. Fly it with elevator to camber and see (that usually is a good one to have)... fly it without... Corey Groves wrote: The Tx is my old workhorse, a 9Z and I would change it so that the crow was always on the slider and the camber was always on the stick (opposite to current). I agree, I have seen too many accidents involving people whos controls changed depending on the mode they are in. Each control has only one function regardless of mode. The mode only changes the degree of function and crow is always available ( I don't like "landing" modes ). I guess my question could be refined a bit: How are pople flying the airfoil on the Fazer? Are most using mode switches for camber or are they really working and fine tuning the camber a lot? On 3/13/06, Jeff Steifel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well Corey why would you change from slider to stick? If you have a slider use it. I assume you are talking Stylus or 9303 I always setup for Crow on landing. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Another Fazer question
Well Corey why would you change from slider to stick? If you have a slider use it. I assume you are talking Stylus or 9303 I always setup for Crow on landing. Setting the stick up and having to switch from camber to landing mode introduces a new problem...you'll forget to switch... I fly the Stylus and the slider is camber while the stick is landing. I have watched many pilots forget to switch to landing mode on the JR and Futaba radios... They lose the landing... Now you can also program a switch for a predetermined camber... This can be very efficient too. You have to know what the specs are for the wing you are dealing with. And if you do, you can still use the slider to eek out little amounts when necessary. or go for broke when you are in an elevator and ascending at mega feet per second... Corey Groves wrote: A question for all you Fazer pilots. With the HQW 2/8 airfoil I have heard comments about slaving the camber to the elevator channel or using the left stick for camber instead of flaps/crow. Are people running this glider in a normal configuration or how are people using camber more dynamically? There is apparently a competitor in Europe who works the camber as much as the stab and has led him to good results. FYI I curently run my Eraser Extreme with the camber on my left slider, only active in thermal mode and then 3 other preset modes for launch, speed, and cruise. I have the left stick set for crow. Thanks for your comments. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] "Midsouth-Louisville is gonna be more fantastic than ever!'
Don't you love how Gordy is always so WRONG.. Thats why his posts go in my trash bin. I only get to see them when someone responds.. It's like the statement that it isn't the splatter at the nats... well yes it can be.. but as always he is WRONG... WRONG WRONG WRONG... Why are their so many followers... A typical salesman... He'll tell you anything. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Re: TX RF output?]
Actually without being as smart as some of you I can still disagree with this. Most radios do get out of alignment. I have been on the receiving end of splatter. A tuneup couldn't hurt. Receivers do emit RF. An ESL member has come up with a way of tracking a receiver based on its emission. He started with duplicating the Walston receiver using a Yasu and other Scanners. Then by playing around he noticed he didn't need a walston transmitter in the plane, that with many RX's he could actually see their output on scanners. While true not all receivers emit, most emit enough that he was able to pick them up. I received a couple of bumps at the nats, but I remember 2 guys being out of shift enough that they caused I think it was Daryl to go in.. about 6-7 years ago. When the scanners looked at their frequencies they were obviously off of their channel... enough to be a problem. Gotta run... my 2 cents.. probably all it is worth... Martin Usher wrote: What a novel and smart suggestion. Makes one wonder how many TX's out there have never experienced a tune-up... They don't have any moving parts. Older radios may have parts like descrete coils (sometimes with slugs) that can can change their size slightly over time (mechanical, maybe due to just moving the radio around) so its possible that the output spectrum could get misshapen (i.e. "splash over to adjacent channels"). Its even possible for crystals to age or get damaged. But in general what you buy should be what you'll use until the mechanical parts wear out. That's not to say that it wouldn't help to look at the output spectrum from time to time, but (IMO) suggesting to people that radios somehow require regular servicing like a car is an application of FUD. Martin Usher (time for the flameproof suit) PS. Receivers don't emit R/F -- actually they could but they shouldn't -- but if the transmitter is prone to drifting around then the receiver would be as well, they've got the same kinds of internals as the Tx. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Newcomer
I'll jump in and recommend the bubble dancer Plans can be had at... http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles.htm This is a great plane. Mark has other fantastic planes there too. Another great source is http://genie.rchomepage.com Harley's plane is a faster flying plane. I think you have to figure out what tickles you. Wladimir Kummer de Paula, MD wrote: Hi all, I´m from Brazil. I´m a glow-power R/Cer for a while and became interested in soaring. I live in mainly flat land without hills or slopes. I´d like to know suggestions for a reasonable bird for a newcomer like me. Do not matter if kit or plans built, in fact I´d rather the latter. Thanks RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] Epoxied servo techniques
Don't use goop if you are a contest flier. If you want to replace a servo or gear on field epoxy is the way to go. Goop doesn't set for hours epoxy provides a bed for the servo to sit in, then if you need to pop it out on the field it is easy. Then a dab of thick ca will bond it right back in there instantly. With goop,go get another plane... go home and the next day it will be ok... Seriously guys, Daryl gave you guys a tried and trusted method of doing the epoxy... it works... I received a plane with taped in servos and they didn't come out easily. I also received a plane with shrink wrap that too didn't come out easily. If you want a strong bond but removable just epoxy it in, or add the weight and go with servo frames... But please lets keep goop out of the contest goers planes. A guy did that and we couldn't get a decent bond quickly even using CA the goop kept the CA from bonding... [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I use Goop. A dab about the size of a small pea on the four corners, then press into place. Actually I set the servo linkages up beforehand (arm angle, pushrod length etc - totally complete), then when it comes time to mount the servos I plug in a RX and turn the system on. With the servos in the neutral position I apply the goop and roll the servo into the wing and press it down. unplug the RX and let it dry. The advantage of Goop is that at the microscopic level it it attaches itself to the servo case's plastic much better than epoxy, and the glue joints will not fail as catastrophically (with epoxy, an event that disloges the servo - does so completely). This process, along with also adhering to the inner surface of the servo cover, makes for zero servo movement. Don't use too much Goop, getting the servo out will be more difficult than epoxy, and (for the ashetically anal) the splooge out the sides shrinks such that it may create an outline of the servo on the upper surface. Keep in mind that the reason epoxy works at all is not because it has adhered to the servo case, but because it has created surface tension at the microscopic level. A hard landing can disrupt this and the servo is now floating around inside the servo bay. Unless you notice, chances are you would launch again. Goop elliminates this possibility. Quoting Tom Copp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: This is easy, do a test. Find an old servo with a clean case. Mix up some 5 minute and micro about like mayonnaise. Put about a quarter size blob on the servo case side and squish it to a piece of smooth clean 1/4 plywood and you want to push down so the servo contacts the wing but not forces the wing flat in one area, push down so the epoxy just rolls out all sides about 1/16. If you put too much then you get more roll out. So push down and get the squeeze out and then just hold "light pressure" until it cures. Now about 2 hours later try and pull it out. Now sand the servo case with 150 grit, clean and repeat the test. The un-sanded servo will hold well for most guys and easily come out in a hard landing or when you want it to. The sanded servo will stay put in a hard landing but still come out when you want it to but will take a little more force. Also add some 8oz glass or carbon to the wing skin to stiffen the servo area if it has not been already done for you before you epoxy in servos. Tom Copp Composite Specialties www.f3x.com 949-645-7032 -Original Message- From: Corey Groves [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 8:14 AM To: Soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Epoxied servo techniques That is something I know I would be very interested in. Based on the comments here there seem to be a huge variance in techniques when going for the glue-in approach. I have only seen two variations where the servo is glued in using a bed of epoxy and micro balloons and is either bare or wrapped in masking tape. But some people are describing servos that pop out of the epoxy easily and others are describing needing to grind the servos out. Can those who have had really good luck with gluing there servos in provide some insights? Thanks for all the information, Corey RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format Simon Van Leeuwen PnP Systems - The E-Harness of Choice Radius Systems Cogito Ergo Zoom RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally
[RCSE] ESL Season Calendar
The Eastern Soaring League's Calendar of Events is posted at: http://www.flyesl.com/calendar.asp We are hoping to attract more pilots back to the soaring circuit. We are offering a lot of HLG as well as Open events this year. We have some top ranked pilots as well as beginners... Our season starts off with the BASS HLG Event at the beginning of May... -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
[RCSE] Bud Elder's email
I need some stab mounts for a Supra anyone got Bud Elder's email.. The one on CRRC bounces back. -- Jeff Steifel RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
