Re: [RCSE] Skegs
In a message dated 3/17/2005 9:03:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey Bill...your a level 4? After 8 hours on that slope for level five your second might leave too ;-). That's why I got my wife flying a glider...but she also has more sense than I do. Yup, my wife can fly gliders,also IC & E power, and R/C Helis. But she chooses to just time for me nowadays, and I kayak with her. :-) One of these days, I'll get set up to try the 8 hour slope, with some witnesses & other flyers. We have a couple slopes around here that will support it on the right day, and I have some other LSF flyers here also. Bill Grenoble LSF 7558 IV Hawksnest Soaring Shermans Dale, PA
RE: [RCSE] Skegs
At 12:50 PM 3/18/05, you wrote: It does make things a little more fun doesn't it? I am still waiting on my paperwork just to start level 1!!! >8-) I got a question for you..how do you fly for 8 hours? Finding lift is the easy part ;-)... No really... got to go to the bathroom, eat or worse yet battery going dead ~Don That's one of the tasks you have to do ... It's called planning. ;-) Eddie The Eagle in sunny South Australia RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] Skegs
It does make things a little more fun doesn't it? I am still waiting on my paperwork just to start level 1!!! >8-) I got a question for you..how do you fly for 8 hours? Finding lift is the easy part ;-)... No really... got to go to the bathroom, eat or worse yet battery going dead ~Don -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 8:14 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; soaring@airage.comSubject: Re: [RCSE] Skegs In a message dated 3/17/2005 9:03:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hey Bill...your a level 4?After 8 hours on that slope for level five your second might leave too ;-).That's why I got my wife flying a glider...but she also has more sense thanI do. Yup, my wife can fly gliders,also IC & E power, and R/C Helis. But she chooses to just time for me nowadays, and I kayak with her. :-) One of these days, I'll get set up to try the 8 hour slope, with some witnesses & other flyers. We have a couple slopes around here that will support it on the right day, and I have some other LSF flyers here also. Bill GrenobleLSF 7558 IVHawksnest SoaringShermans Dale, PA
RE: [RCSE] Skegs
Hey Bill...your a level 4? After 8 hours on that slope for level five your second might leave too ;-). That's why I got my wife flying a glider...but she also has more sense than I do. Don -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 12:39 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: [RCSE] Skegs In a message dated 3/17/2005 11:52:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: My wife took away my checkbook Don My first wife didn't like model airplanes either. Bill Grenoble LSF 7558 IV Hawksnest Soaring Shermans Dale, PA RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
http://www.superskeg.com/ has a good sorce of tape on and bolt on skegs @ great prices and quick shipping. John Fruge - Original Message - From: Klaus Weiss To: Don & Lisa Copley ; soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:25 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] skegs and teeth I found some old teeth that my granny used to have. I can send them over for you, if you want them. Klaus WeissSydney, Australia.http://www.hsl.org.au- Original Message - From: Don & Lisa Copley . I guess I need to find some teeth somewhere. Anybody got a home made idea for teeth? My wife took away my checkbook Don No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005
Re: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
I found some old teeth that my granny used to have. I can send them over for you, if you want them. Klaus WeissSydney, Australia.http://www.hsl.org.au- Original Message - From: Don & Lisa Copley . I guess I need to find some teeth somewhere. Anybody got a home made idea for teeth? My wife took away my checkbook Don
RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
Yep 16 penny would be fine... Mark Soaring Is Life!! From: "Don & Lisa Copley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Mark Wales" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Subject: RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:40:13 -0600 Mark, How big of teeth are you talking about? I think 16 penny nails would keep the landing area clear. I bet you would have any problems keeping your timer back either. Regards, Don -Original Message- From: Mark Wales [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:35 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth I would not be so worried about the skegs and teeth mounted to someones plane, but more the 4 pounds of aircraft moving towards me at a high rate of speed if they're not!! I was out flying my old Camano the other day and it has a skeg mounted on it, and I asked myself why... When I drop those big flaps down to 90% and both ailerons go up it almost stops inflight, but keeps coming right up to the tape at a slow walk. Skegs and Teeth? Maybe the rules should say you have to use them during a contest to keep the landing area safe for others. Thermals Mark Soaring Is Life!! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
Did you ever see a Texas skeg? http://www.jimbacus.net/tnt2004/pages/DSC02463.html Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
At 09:43 PM 3/16/2005, you wrote: Kevin, The answer is "yes" in both cases. The first one he is avoiding a miss the last one he is stretching it to the mark. I guess I need to find some teeth somewhere. Anybody got a home made idea for teeth? My wife took away my checkbook Some combination of titanium and carbon fiber. I dunno how it'd work but you'd get a gazillion cool points. ;-) Bill RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
Kevin, The answer is "yes" in both cases. The first one he is avoiding a miss the last one he is stretching it to the mark. I guess I need to find some teeth somewhere. Anybody got a home made idea for teeth? My wife took away my checkbook Don -Original Message-From: Kevin Sheen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:04 PMTo: Don & Lisa Copley; soaring@airage.comSubject: Re: [RCSE] skegs and teethDepends, do you land like this:http://www.ts3.org/gallery/CSS-2003-Pumpkin-Fly/DSCF0059or this?http://www.ts3.org/gallery/CSS-2003-Pumpkin-Fly/DSCF0072KevinAt 04:07 PM 3/16/2005 -0600, you wrote: Skegs (skid type peg) and teeth...need them or not?Does it help you get those points? Forget it they are a hazard to fly with! Best Regards,Don
RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
Mark, How big of teeth are you talking about? I think 16 penny nails would keep the landing area clear. I bet you would have any problems keeping your timer back either. Regards, Don -Original Message- From: Mark Wales [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:35 PM To: soaring@airage.com Subject: RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth I would not be so worried about the skegs and teeth mounted to someones plane, but more the 4 pounds of aircraft moving towards me at a high rate of speed if they're not!! I was out flying my old Camano the other day and it has a skeg mounted on it, and I asked myself why... When I drop those big flaps down to 90% and both ailerons go up it almost stops inflight, but keeps coming right up to the tape at a slow walk. Skegs and Teeth? Maybe the rules should say you have to use them during a contest to keep the landing area safe for others. Thermals Mark Soaring Is Life!! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
Re: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
Dang, those both look like misses... 8-) At 07:04 PM 3/16/2005, Kevin Sheen wrote: Depends, do you land like this: http://www.ts3.org/gallery/CSS-2003-Pumpkin-Fly/DSCF0059 or this? http://www.ts3.org/gallery/CSS-2003-Pumpkin-Fly/DSCF0072 Kevin At 04:07 PM 3/16/2005 -0600, you wrote: Skegs (skid type peg) and teeth...need them or not? Does it help you get those points? Forget it they are a hazard to fly with! Best Regards, Don Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, and Team JR AMA 592537 LSF 7560 Level IV R/C Soaring blog at www.jimbacus.net
Re: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
Depends, do you land like this: http://www.ts3.org/gallery/CSS-2003-Pumpkin-Fly/DSCF0059 or this? http://www.ts3.org/gallery/CSS-2003-Pumpkin-Fly/DSCF0072 Kevin At 04:07 PM 3/16/2005 -0600, you wrote: Skegs (skid type peg) and teeth...need them or not? Does it help you get those points? Forget it they are a hazard to fly with! Best Regards, Don
RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
I would not be so worried about the skegs and teeth mounted to someones plane, but more the 4 pounds of aircraft moving towards me at a high rate of speed if they're not!! I was out flying my old Camano the other day and it has a skeg mounted on it, and I asked myself why... When I drop those big flaps down to 90% and both ailerons go up it almost stops inflight, but keeps coming right up to the tape at a slow walk. Skegs and Teeth? Maybe the rules should say you have to use them during a contest to keep the landing area safe for others. Thermals Mark Soaring Is Life!! RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Email sent from web based email such as Hotmail and AOL are generally NOT in text format
RE: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
Before I started using skegs, I use to jump up in the air and let the plane slide under me. Of course, there was always the chance that the plane could decide to stop sliding while it was under you and then you would land on top of it. :-( I go to lots of contests and I've never seen anyone hurt with a skeg. I have had my shins hurt and have seen many other people hit their shins when flying without a skeg. Buddy Roos -Original Message-From: Joe Rodriguez [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 5:34 PMTo: Soaring@airage.com; Don & Lisa CopleySubject: Re: [RCSE] skegs and teeth Don, If you are flying to compete then yes as your competition will have them and you will be at a disadvantage. If you are flying a contest to have fun and not worrying about skidding threw the landing then just pad your shins and hope your leading edge is made of rubber. (-: joe - Original Message - From: Don & Lisa Copley To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:07 PM Subject: [RCSE] skegs and teeth Skegs (skid type peg) and teeth...need them or not? Does it help you get those points? Forget it they are a hazard to fly with! Best Regards, Don
Re: [RCSE] skegs and teeth
Don, If you are flying to compete then yes as your competition will have them and you will be at a disadvantage. If you are flying a contest to have fun and not worrying about skidding threw the landing then just pad your shins and hope your leading edge is made of rubber. (-: joe - Original Message - From: Don & Lisa Copley To: Soaring@airage.com Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:07 PM Subject: [RCSE] skegs and teeth Skegs (skid type peg) and teeth...need them or not? Does it help you get those points? Forget it they are a hazard to fly with! Best Regards, Don
Re: [RCSE] Skegs suck!
On 1/28/03 13:50, "Jeff Nibler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you've never tried a skeg on the slope, you don't know what you're > missing. I might try that. I flew slope quite a bit when I first came out to SOCAL but grew weary of it quickly. Back and forth. Back and forth. Back and forth. As long as the wind is blowing. Back and forth. Although I will admit that I love flying a large scale glider at Torrey Pines late on a summer day with the sun setting into the Pacific Ocean. Now that is way cool!!! ~~~ Bill Malvey RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Skegs Survey
I think I might be responsible for adding skeg to the soaring lexicon, something I'm not particularly proud of. For our use, its skeg, not skag*, not skegg. Skegs are located aft teeth are forward. Before committing to advertising and packaging copy, I went to the library and looked up skeg in a bunch of different dictionaries and patents to confirm it was the proper term. *Skag is mentioned in some dictionaries but it is slang for skeg. Skegg skegge, skag, skagge, shag, shagge have multiple definitions including the device we use but are probably a product of translation and pronunciation errors. Tim McCann, Skeg monger - Original Message - From: "Tom H. Nagel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "RCSE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 4:42 PM Subject: [RCSE] Skegs Survey > I personally am a skegnostic, and don't much care if people in contests > use skegs or not, because I am not going to be flying against them anyway. > I use one on the Flamingoid to keep the droopy plastic yard flamingo neck > from breaking. > > What I want to know in this survey is: HOW MANY DIFFERENT SPELLINGS ARE > THERE FOR SKEG? > > So far I see skeg and skegg and once in a while skag. One of our > friends from Montreal spells it squegge as I recall. Add your own versions. > A thread is a terrible thing to waste. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Skegs YES!
Great Idea. Maurice --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Richard O'Connell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] SKEGS, TIME FOR A VOTE
FYI, I may be speaking for the CD (he's not on the RCSE) but unless something changes, the upcoming SWC will allow the use of skegs. Regardless, if you blow through the landing area, hit the short safety fence, or bystanders you'll be zeroed for the landing points. Garland CASL - Original Message - From: Richard O'Connell To: soaring Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 11:58 AM Subject: [RCSE] SKEGS, TIME FOR A VOTE Time to stand and be counted, maybe this will put this line to rest for a while, but that is more than likely too much to hope for. All in favor of the continued unrestricted use of skegs in AMA Open Class Thermal Duration contests, (this means the way we are doing things regarding skegs now is just fine), respond with SKEGS YES in the subject line. All posed to the use of skegs OR those that feel the use of skegs should be regulated and or controlled, (this means we are doing things wrong and really need to change), respond with SKEGS NO in the subject line. Please respond directly to RCSE, NOT to me! Additional verbage is not required, (it's all ready been said anyway). The poles are open and will close at 12:00 (noon) Mountain Standard Time Saturday. One vote per customer, I have a contest to go to tomorrow (and I'll be using a skeg) so I won't post the results until Sunday, or maybe Monday. --- Rich O'Connell --- PPSS --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] skegs: Yes option A
Don't regulate them. Although I personally feel skegs are unnecessary -- eliminating them make landing tasks harder, and anything that makes competition a little tougher is a good thing -- that is not likely to be a majority opinion in the US -- and why waste the ink adding to the rulebook unless you have a completely necessary change? All the arguments for and against skegs as safety devices are smoke, IMO. Glenn Dean Altanta, GA
Re: [RCSE] SKEGS, TIME FOR A VOTE
Richard, The vote should be... A - For skegs (unregulated) B - For skegs (regulated) C - No skegs at all. Putting B and C together is not correct as even the person who first started this with the rule proposal was not outlawing skegs, but was only setting some rules. Jason Werner - Original Message - From: Richard O'Connell To: soaring Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 1:58 PM Subject: [RCSE] SKEGS, TIME FOR A VOTE Time to stand and be counted, maybe this will put this line to rest for a while, but that is more than likely too much to hope for. All in favor of the continued unrestricted use of skegs in AMA Open Class Thermal Duration contests, (this means the way we are doing things regarding skegs now is just fine), respond with SKEGS YES in the subject line. All posed to the use of skegs OR those that feel the use of skegs should be regulated and or controlled, (this means we are doing things wrong and really need to change), respond with SKEGS NO in the subject line. Please respond directly to RCSE, NOT to me! Additional verbage is not required, (it's all ready been said anyway). The poles are open and will close at 12:00 (noon) Mountain Standard Time Saturday. One vote per customer, I have a contest to go to tomorrow (and I'll be using a skeg) so I won't post the results until Sunday, or maybe Monday. --- Rich O'Connell --- PPSS --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Skegs
I have to agree about the FAI task and no skeg...Am I allowed to use the word, now that I have one on my Fazer? This is one of those things that just won't die. I saw one comment that said the AMA would go to the rules, but their rules...let's go all the way to the rules and use the FAI landing. If you want to keep it American, drop the meter part and just go with yards...works for football and golf, doesn't it?...8^)...I've been guilty of stirring this pot a couple of times before and what I really think is...let the cd decide and announce it in his/her contest announcement. Like skegs...go to those contests. Don't like 'em...go to those contests. Live in an area that does the opposite of what you like...become the cd and do it your way...Why does America have to be different on this? As far as the safety thing is concerned, I've been whacked across the shins with more than one wing, and I ain't hobblin'...just keep everyone out of the area upwind of the spot, except the pilot and timer, and deny FLIGHT AND LANDING points to those that land downwind or exceed the spot and a safety margin upwind. Stirrin' the pot again... Jack Womack Real men scratch build... --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I completely agree with Simon, Klaus and others that > skegs are crutches for > most of us who can't land without them on the > ridiculous runways for lawn > darts often used in major US contests. > > We should adopt the FAI landing rules in US duration > contests and forget > skegs. Small (~1" high, 1/4" wide rounded) skids > are quite sufficient for > the FAI landing plan if you know how to land in a > reasonable space. This > would be much easier on our sailplanes and > ourselves. > > Dale Nutter > > Date: Wed, 22 Jan 2003 17:56:44 -0800 > From: Simon Van Leeuwen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Klaus Weiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: Soaring <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: Re: SKEG's and Actual Piloting Skill > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > I have read here that the landing task is too easy, > basically making it > a landing contest. Skegs could be considered an > external aid (like a > crutch) to assist landing accurately. > > It would sure be interesting to observe how an > individual's flying skill > would increase if they actually had to manage the > energy to land > accurately and on time without one. I would have > thought that most would > have come to this conclusion, and made the landing > task more difficult > by removing this "landing aid" to make the whole > process more > challenging and no doubt more enjoyable. > > The argument that a skeg prevents sliding through > the landing area and > the dangers associated with this just points out > that that particular > aircraft is out of control. > > > Klaus Weiss wrote: > > > > I have often commented, lightheartedly, on the use > of skegs. We do not use > > skegs at all, in Australia. I have yet to see > someone injured by a model > > sliding through the spot on landing. Admittedly, > we use FAI landing spots, > > but even so!! If a model touches someone on > landing, then it is zero > landing > > points. Perhaps skegs have their place in the USA > formats, but I think that > > there is a risk of pilots becoming so dependant on > them for landing, that > > they forget how to land well. I haven't seen a > U.S. TD contest. Perhaps > > there are models flying all over the place in the > landing zone. Landing > > upwind, downwind, crosswind, vertically, > inverted??? Don't know. Maybe > skegs > > are necessary :) Maybe the landing zone is really > the hazard zone. > > > > Klaus K Weiss > > Sydney, Australia > > www.hsl.org.au > > > > > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Skegs...tasks...F3j...and the like
It's a hunski in my book. 8-) At 08:50 PM 1/20/2003, Pat McCleave wrote: Jim, I am pretty sure he has the energy managed well in that picture. Don't believe that plane is going any where very fast. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS Original Message - From: James V. Bacus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Skegs...tasks...F3j...and the like > At 08:27 PM 1/20/2003, D'Anne Thompson wrote: > >As Joe Wurts says the key to soaring is energy management. Landing > >without a skeg is a demonstration of proper energy management. > > > http://www.geocities.com/glidersrc/pag_noticias/f3jworlds2002/landingwurts.j pg > > 8-) > > > Jim > Downers Grove, IL > Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level III > ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring Page at www.jimbacus.net > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level III ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring Page at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Skegs...tasks...F3j...and the like
Jim, I am pretty sure he has the energy managed well in that picture. Don't believe that plane is going any where very fast. See Ya, Pat McCleave Wichita, KS Original Message - From: James V. Bacus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 8:39 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] Skegs...tasks...F3j...and the like > At 08:27 PM 1/20/2003, D'Anne Thompson wrote: > >As Joe Wurts says the key to soaring is energy management. Landing > >without a skeg is a demonstration of proper energy management. > > > http://www.geocities.com/glidersrc/pag_noticias/f3jworlds2002/landingwurts.j pg > > 8-) > > > Jim > Downers Grove, IL > Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level III > ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring Page at www.jimbacus.net > > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Skegs...tasks...F3j...and the like
At 08:27 PM 1/20/2003, D'Anne Thompson wrote: As Joe Wurts says the key to soaring is energy management. Landing without a skeg is a demonstration of proper energy management. http://www.geocities.com/glidersrc/pag_noticias/f3jworlds2002/landingwurts.jpg 8-) Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level III ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring Page at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Skegs and Related Rules
Bring on F3B!! Tom - Original Message - From: "Pat McCleave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 9:34 AM Subject: [RCSE] Skegs and Related Rules > PS, If we would just all wake up start flying more F3X type events we would > not have to worry about skeg rules. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Please note that subscribe and unsubscribe messages must be sent in text only format with MIME turned off.
Re: [RCSE] Skegs - Definition
At 08:21 AM 4/26/2002, Dennis Zech wrote: >We have a member in our club with a RES >ship which has a nose which droops to a point so it looks like a hawk. >Is that RES legal? I've seen a pilot use something similar in F3J, and I think it's design and purpose is as a landing arrestor, not for some aerodynamic purpose. Similar to a nose cone with a molded on skeg. Jim Downers Grove, IL Member of the Chicago SOAR club, AMA 592537LSF 7560 Level III ICQ 6997780R/C Soaring Page at www.jimbacus.net RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Skegs
Dennis Phelan wrote: > Does anyone object to having a powered wheel inside the plane so it can be > "driven" to the spot after landing on time? If there's a reverse gear, I'll take two!! -- Stephen Syrotiak Building Service Southern Connecticut http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php?referrerid=4399 RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Skegs!
And you have 3 ft to get 100 and what 6' to get a 95?? No need for skegs. T > Skegs! > I see it's that time or the year again. Hashing over why we should or > shouldn't use skegs. > > My two cents are: > If you want a contest with no skegs, then attend an F3J contest! We > invite the participation ! We have a hard time getting good attendance > for F3J. > > Cheers > Charlie > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] Skegs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I think the skill of the pilot should > determine the landing. Not the Skeg. I think in Canada they do not allow > them. I could be wrong. The MAAC regulations are mostly FAI with some AMA thrown in for good measure. They are very FAI'ish when it comes to skegs (ie. "just say no"). 4.2 Specifications 4.2.1 Classes A,B,C,D,E, shall conform to the following specifications. f. No fixed or retractable arresting device (eg. bolt, sawtooth like protuberance, etc.) is allowed to slow down the model on the ground during landing. The underside of the model must not have any protuberance other than the towhook and surface control linkages. The towhook must not be larger than 5mm in frontal width and 15mm in frontal height. -- Andrew E. Mileski Ottawa, Canada RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
In a message dated 2/4/00 4:30:56 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << The last thing I am is a legend in my own mind, just a hard working guy who enjoys to fly and anything about flying, but I am very competitive when I walk out on the field of battle. >> Gellart is a meglomaniac, totally full of himself and feels that only his way is the only way. He is a fearsome sight of a man, intimidating on the soaring field of battle. No one likes the guy. except me:-) and I enjoy the look of a vicious skeg right on the tip of a sailplane. Gordy RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
> Mark, > from Daryls excellent post to yours. I have this mental picture of you. > Do you sometimes wear a pointy hat with eyeholes cut out, or a specific > armband? You must be a legend in your own mind. Klaus, I, promise that I am not a member of the klan, or any other right wing conspiratorial group, just someone who is tired of political correctness and the attitude "that because America needs to get with the rest of the world attitude." The last thing I am is a legend in my own mind, just a hard working guy who enjoys to fly and anything about flying, but I am very competitive when I walk out on the field of battle. Marc Gellart, Lima, OH RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Hey, Tim McCann has to make a living too! Skegs Rule! The landing area at the SW CLASSIC has been overseeded for the winter but it is patchy. Skegs will be both helpful and numerous. My plane will be bristling with skegs!!! Thanks Tim! Garland Hanson CASL - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mike Stump <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes > Hi Daryl, > I just read your comments on skegs,etc. and I agree with most of what you > said. I am a ham and use ham frequencies, but I don't sandbag. I think > called up flight order > is something we should do at all our contests. We used to do this in our > powered > free flight planes. We also gave the pilots 3 minutes to get in the air. > This makes things a little more equal all the way around. > Best regards, > Art > > > [Original Message] > > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Mike Stump <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Date: 1/31/00 9:04:51 PM > > Subject: Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes > > > > Most of you know, I've flown all over the world. The rest of the world > simply doesn't understand our way of TD flying and scoring. > > The reality is that our tasks have evolved over the years to take into > account the tiny little postage stamp flying fields we are > > required to sometimes fly from. Most pilots from other countries would > laugh histerically if they ever attended Visalia, and saw the > > little clump of grass we are required to land on downwind every year. Why > is it like this? Real estate - it is at a premium, and we > > are losing flying sites left and right. We're lucky to have the ones we > have - especially in Southern California. > > > > I hate our landing tasks, and the value put on high landing points at a > contest - but that's the way it is. Our TD contests are > > about what happens when the plane hits the ground - not about what > happens in the air. I think this is a shame, but there isn't > > enough time in the day to hold a true thermal duration event - that Joe > guy would just run out of batteries. Every one else would > > follow him around the sky. There has to be a differentiator (Is that a > word?) What will this be? Hmmm, landing? > > > > Now, skegs - again the reality of small sites, and poor flying skills. > It's very easy for the purists to argue we don't need them. > > "Sure, just learn how to land," they say. Yeah, right! If we eliminate > skegs, do you really believe that all the soaring pilots who > > already have trouble hitting the spot with skegs are going to go out and > practice now? No, they won't. They're flying for fun. What > > you've just created is making an unsafe pilot and situation MORE unsafe. > Things happen in contests that don't normally happen during > > fun flying. Everybody wants those landing points, and they're sure as > heck not going to come up short. So, they're carrying energy - > > LOTS of it. Oops, there goes my shins, your shins, and alot of leading > edges. > > > > Our landing tape - Is it absurd? Probably. But it doesn't really matter. > As long as everyone is landing on the same tape, it's > > plenty fair. It's actually more fair than the FAI tapes. I like 1 point > increments as opposed to 5 point increments. FAI tapes - You > > could drop 5 points by simply being out 1/2". We're going to a contest in > Phoenix this weekend where it will be scored at 1 point > > per inch away from the nail. Averaging 85's will win this contest. Maybe > even 80's. I do hope the purists leave their skegs at > > home, and bring a lot planes! ;-) Or at least EPP LE's. > > > > So, how do we make contests more fair in the states? I don't have the > answer to that. I do have a few ideas: > > > > 1. Eliminate sandbagging - called flight order. Give a guy 3 minutes(Or a > specified amount of time - field layout dependent) after > > he's called to hook up to the winch. One of my pet peaves is the guys who > fly on ham bands to eliminate freq. conflicts, and sit on > > the pin awaiting the lift cycles. This is an unfair advantage, and more > importantly, is just a pussy move. > > 2. When capable - try holding a man on man contest. Takes less time than > you'd think. You don't have to wait for each flight group > > to land prior to launching the next group. Can be accomplished with a > little plan
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Michael Neverdosky wrote: > How about shorter winch lines? > a 100 meter line. > Does a 100 yard line make thousands of readily available sites leap to mine? Gee, they even have the landing task set up already, between the poles, under the bar to the spot. Rich B RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Klaus What I didn't say was that serious, hard charging, full scale sailplane competition flying comes with an elevated level of risk. Off field landings in totally unfamiliar terrain (most are) and flight into extreme weather conditions (thunderstorm downburst in my case) set the stage for my fence encounters. I now compete with models instead. If I fly full size, I rent and prefer to go solo, so you are safe. Jerry Ps. I'm sure you are aware of several of the top world soaring pilots who are not with us today because of "gotchas". It does have it's hazards, and wire strikes and midairs are high on the list. MacCready once told me he hung it up after he won the Worlds because of the midair risk. I didn't feel so bad for having quit after hearing him say that. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Darryl P writes: "So, how do we make contests more fair in the states?" Well, how about reducing the emphasis on landing and creating an "approach" task? This might include flying in a narrow corridor marked by wands and streamers which would, if properly executed, land you right on target. Points off for touching a streamer or wand, etc. I really have no idea, of course. I am not a contest flyer and have absolutely no interest in competitive events ... (the other) Dave in Berkeley, California RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Most of you know, I've flown all over the world. The rest of the world simply doesn't understand our way of TD flying and scoring. The reality is that our tasks have evolved over the years to take into account the tiny little postage stamp flying fields we are required to sometimes fly from. Most pilots from other countries would laugh histerically if they ever attended Visalia, and saw the little clump of grass we are required to land on downwind every year. Why is it like this? Real estate - it is at a premium, and we are losing flying sites left and right. We're lucky to have the ones we have - especially in Southern California. I hate our landing tasks, and the value put on high landing points at a contest - but that's the way it is. Our TD contests are about what happens when the plane hits the ground - not about what happens in the air. I think this is a shame, but there isn't enough time in the day to hold a true thermal duration event - that Joe guy would just run out of batteries. Every one else would follow him around the sky. There has to be a differentiator (Is that a word?) What will this be? Hmmm, landing? Now, skegs - again the reality of small sites, and poor flying skills. It's very easy for the purists to argue we don't need them. "Sure, just learn how to land," they say. Yeah, right! If we eliminate skegs, do you really believe that all the soaring pilots who already have trouble hitting the spot with skegs are going to go out and practice now? No, they won't. They're flying for fun. What you've just created is making an unsafe pilot and situation MORE unsafe. Things happen in contests that don't normally happen during fun flying. Everybody wants those landing points, and they're sure as heck not going to come up short. So, they're carrying energy - LOTS of it. Oops, there goes my shins, your shins, and alot of leading edges. Our landing tape - Is it absurd? Probably. But it doesn't really matter. As long as everyone is landing on the same tape, it's plenty fair. It's actually more fair than the FAI tapes. I like 1 point increments as opposed to 5 point increments. FAI tapes - You could drop 5 points by simply being out 1/2". We're going to a contest in Phoenix this weekend where it will be scored at 1 point per inch away from the nail. Averaging 85's will win this contest. Maybe even 80's. I do hope the purists leave their skegs at home, and bring a lot planes! ;-) Or at least EPP LE's. So, how do we make contests more fair in the states? I don't have the answer to that. I do have a few ideas: 1. Eliminate sandbagging - called flight order. Give a guy 3 minutes(Or a specified amount of time - field layout dependent) after he's called to hook up to the winch. One of my pet peaves is the guys who fly on ham bands to eliminate freq. conflicts, and sit on the pin awaiting the lift cycles. This is an unfair advantage, and more importantly, is just a pussy move. 2. When capable - try holding a man on man contest. Takes less time than you'd think. You don't have to wait for each flight group to land prior to launching the next group. Can be accomplished with a little planning. Can also be done with only 2 - 3 winches, not optimum, but can be done. 3. Make the flight times challenging - this 3, 5, 7 crap is boring. Our planes have gotten so efficient, and the tasks haven't kept up. Who cares if nobody makes their times? It's called Thermal Duration, isn't it? Shouldn't the guy who flies the longest get the win? 4. Make the landing tasks fair - no huge landing bonus equalling 1/3 or even 1/2 of the flight time for hitting a postage stamp. That 1/2" in or out thing makes me crazy. Measure the darn things. Huge in or out doesn't make a contest more fair, it makes the contest more dependent on your TIMER'S thumb. Do I think skegs should be banned? No. I do believe they make things more safe for the majority of skill levels out there. Besides, the biggest skeg is really the nose. You eliminate skegs, people will DORK for the win. Daryl - sorry to get on my soapbox - Perkins Mike Stump wrote: > Klaus, > > unlike F3B & J, the landing zones in the USA are much smaller... the US TD > landing circle deducts 1 point from 100 for every 4 inches away from > center... what would still be 100 pts on an FAI tape could be 90 or even 89 > on a US circle (task L-4).. > > our runway landing is a strip 2-3" wide for 100 pts with 1 pt. deducted for > every inch away from the runway center zone... > > there is a difference regardless of the amount of control one has properly > learned.. > > At 09:11 AM 2/1/00 +1100, you wrote: > >What are you saying here jerry? Don't go half shares with you in a full > >size sailplane or don't go in the tandem seat with you :) > >We don't use skegs in Australia. It is up to the pilots to learn to fly > >their sailplanes properly and compensate for the landings. Are skegs > >allowed in the world champs F3J/F3B? Don't think so. > > > >Klaus
Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes
Klaus, In the true American spirit, we do not care what the rest of the world is doing, since it is very obvious that we have the best pilots right here. It does not seem to hinder Joe or Daryl or any of the rest of the American pilots a bit at the Worlds that they fly here with skegs. Maybe the rest of the world needs to look our way and get with the program. Marc Gellart, Lima, Ohio PS. I would gladly go in half with Jerry on any aircraft. As meticulous and exacting as Jerry is, if an aircraft passes his inspect, it is fine with me... - Original Message - From: Klaus K Weiss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: Re: [RCSE] skegs on sailplanes > What are you saying here jerry? Don't go half shares with you in a full > size sailplane or don't go in the tandem seat with you :) > We don't use skegs in Australia. It is up to the pilots to learn to fly > their sailplanes properly and compensate for the landings. Are skegs > allowed in the world champs F3J/F3B? Don't think so. > > Klaus Weiss > Australia > > > > Twice, when flying full size sailplanes, I wish I had the stopping power > of a > > skeg. First time I got stopped just before I hit the fence, and the > second > > time I went thru it, totalling the glider and almost taking myself out in > the > > proscess. > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [RCSE] @#$%^&* Skegs and Full scale soaring
Hey, I agree. All that's needed is to change the landings and Skegs won't be required. But nobody seems to want a reallistic scale landing. A 25 foot radius circle would be easily done by all, without skegs or dorking. But I degress , If all make the time then what except the precision landing prohibits the ties and flyoffs ? Most Sportsman and Experts seem to make their times +/- one or two seconds anymore , so landings are the only way to enable a contest to be resolved without a more precise aftermath . Perhaps target type circles to 1 meter or 1 foot or less would lower the flyoffs . How about a touch and go (req'd) to stop the clock, then do the precision landing. Anyone tried that lately ? Two chanels, no spoilers, no flaps, no RES bitching !!! Flame On ! Ron. RCSE-List facilities provided by Model Airplane News. Send "subscribe" and "unsubscribe" requests to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
