Re: Listening

[Stephen Davidson]

It is the weekend Corporations don't work on the weekend. :)


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 9:40 PM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> Well it seems that they stopped listening...
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-08 14:21 GMT-06:00 Sylvain Lebeau :
>
> Peotic prose
>> Emilio, you cant say it better then that.
>>
>> thanks for sharing your insights!
>>
>> sly
>>
>>  *Sylvain Lebeau // SHED*
>> V-P/Visual effects supervisor
>> 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8
>> T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM  <
>> http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> VFX Curriculum 03: Compositing Basics
>> mail to: s...@shedmtl.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 8, 2014, at 3:27 AM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:
>>
>> Autodesk tried to kill Softimage right from the beggining.  Since the
>> very first time Softimage never showed up in the front page of their
>> website.  All they showed up was Maya and MAX.  Never gave the deserved
>> attention and right branding/marketing.
>>
>> You never put enough attention and effort on really growing up the
>> sales.  The main dev team was ripped off and plugged into Maya, and
>> delivered only lame upgrades year after year.
>>
>> Even with this, Softimage delivered amazing work created by amazing
>> artists.  Not only in the big studios, but from the independent freelancers
>> to mid size studios.
>>
>> You want to listen, ok. listen well.
>>
>> You are blind with your Maya paradigm.  Maya artists that trully went to
>> start using Softimage, and not overwhelmed by such a pristine UI, that at
>> first view from a Maya user, seems that it lacks of a lot of stuff, without
>> stupid icons everywhere. Never went back to Maya.  I personally know
>> several of them.  Here in my country, there were two studios that went into
>> the endeavour of starting a full 3D animated feature film.  Right from the
>> beggining they chose Softimage.
>>
>> At my former small studio, the artists that I hired were Maya guys, after
>> I trainned them in Softimage, they said in a meeting that Softimage opened
>> them a new door.
>>
>> Recently one of them freelanced for the Eugenio Derbez latest movie doing
>> some character animation for this film, and he used Softimage not Maya.  At
>> first he was asigned only one shot as he entered late.  He deliver faster
>> than other freelance guys using Maya, and he got two more shots.
>>
>> Softimage "The suite plugin", each time it is used in production is
>> sorrounded by success.  But each time such stories hit the media, you take
>> care of diminishing the use of Softimage.
>>
>> Before Eric Mootz ported his addons to Maya, he was never in your
>> spotlight, the same with Arnold and others.  Now you present proudly Eric
>> Mootz, and his tools in a Maya environment.  If it is Softimage, you bury
>> the name, but if it is Maya you don't hesitate to put into all the
>> frontpages you can, and fill your mouth with it.
>>
>> Your statement of "we tried" it is nothing else but a big lie.  You never
>> tried.
>>
>> The PETA commercial.
>>
>> When did you featured that in the Area and in your front page and filled
>> your mouth that it was made with Softimage?  NEVER.  Three awards given by
>> the VES society and did you care to write even a few lines about being
>> proud that Softimage was used for that amazing work?
>>
>> And you are saying that you tried?
>>
>> You kept us all these years with rumors, rumors, and finally you ended
>> these rumors.  Meanwhile you were saying that Softimage was to stay with
>> Autodesk, and in good hands...
>>
>> If Softimage has a name it is because of the Softimage community, not
>> because of you.
>>
>> Do you really believe that Maya is the future?  I call it going back to
>> the past.  If Maya was really a better choice for us, you wouldn't be now
>> in this position.
>>
>> I suggest you take a look to a video I made to compare the workflow to
>> achieve the same effect in Maya vs Softimage.  This is just a small example
>> of the general workflow.
>>
>> https://vimeo.com/87722342
>>
>> Being unbiased you tell me which one, is the one that should be killed,
>> and which one deserves your attention.
>>
>> You say you can't afford to put more money into Softimage?
>>
>> Well don't do it.  Just keep fixing  the bugs and deliver SP, but open
>> the SDK to allow further development from 3rd party developers.
>>
>> You will still earn money from the subscriptions, and tech support, while
>> you allow others to invest their money to develop new tools for Softimage.
>>
>> Since the time you acquired Softimage the real improvemnts are from 3rd
>> pary devs.  Not from you.
>>
>> You don't put to sale Softimage because you know that if another company
>> acquires it,  in a year or two Softimage will start kicking Maya's ass with
>> the right branding and marketing.
>>
>> You also know that if you start t

Re: Migrate Ice

[Raffaele Fragapane]

In that case get in touch with autodesk for a beta seat, which they have
publicly offered left and right for months now, and go keep an eye on
Bifrost personally.

That's their plainly declared "spiritual successor" to ICE.
On 9 Mar 2014 17:40, "Jason S"  wrote:

>  I think the sentiment was not necessaritly Ice centric..
> If a day would come where Maya+Bifrost (overall) would, in real terms,
> actually compete .. (Maya workflow cut in half) at that point we could then
> freely shed tears & veneer the (past) legacy of Softimage.
>
> On 03/09/14 1:14, Raffaele Fragapane wrote:
>
> I think you're extremely unlikely to see something like that.
> The only app that could possibly benefit and take the windows dependencies
> might be max, but rumors have long had it that the max team pretty much
> outright refused it back then betting the horse on a half arsed
> implementation of TP instead. That PM has, since then, been fired I believe.
>
>  Maya will be the first to receive Bifrost, and Bifrost is actually
> stand-alone philosophically and architecturally, so it might or might not
> be plugged into other software or become its own thing. I'm sure in the
> back of someone's mind at AD there's this possibility, or at least back-up
> plan, that if everything else goes to shit monopoly wise they could at
> least have that as a production hub and platform central to some markets.
>
>  Given Soft was finally murdered in cold blood with the misguided
> intention of re-resourcing and re-focusing heavily on less efforts, and
> everything I heard on all channels pretty much sings the same song (sorry,
> no mustache twirling, cat petting backlit villain sitting on an iron chair
> whipping Chris and Maurice into performing unspeakable acts), I seriously,
> seriously doubt ICE as a code base will do anything except rotting on the
> vines.
>
>  Bifrost though might soon be able to do a lot of the things ICE was good
> for, and a few more to boot. Just give it four or five years and a few
> buckets of early adopter blood on the floors and see! In the meantime,
> stick to Soft, look at Houdini, or just curl up and cry if ICE is a key
> part of your day; there is nothing, nor there will be for a few years, that
> can do exactly all the same things as elegantly within the domain of what
> ICE does well (though some other things ICE doesn't do so well at are
> possible elsewhere).
>
>  Fabric has some visual programming cooking up as well according to Paul,
> but I don't know when and to what extent it'll be available and fruible.
> Right now I give it more of a chance than I'll give to Bifrost to be useful
> for something next year or two.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Katherine Rodtsbrooks <
> krodtsbro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I sincerely hope that Autodesk won't throw away what was working... let's
>> move Ice over to another package!
>>
>>  --
>> Katherine Jones
>>
>
>
>
>  --
> Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
> and let them flee like the dogs they are!
>
>
>

Re: Migrate Ice

[Jason S]

I think the sentiment was not necessaritly Ice centric..
If a day would come where Maya+Bifrost (overall) would, in real terms, 
actually compete .. (Maya workflow cut in half) at that point we could 
then freely shed tears & veneer the (past) legacy of Softimage.


On 03/09/14 1:14, Raffaele Fragapane wrote:

I think you're extremely unlikely to see something like that.
The only app that could possibly benefit and take the windows 
dependencies might be max, but rumors have long had it that the max 
team pretty much outright refused it back then betting the horse on a 
half arsed implementation of TP instead. That PM has, since then, been 
fired I believe.


Maya will be the first to receive Bifrost, and Bifrost is actually 
stand-alone philosophically and architecturally, so it might or might 
not be plugged into other software or become its own thing. I'm sure 
in the back of someone's mind at AD there's this possibility, or at 
least back-up plan, that if everything else goes to shit monopoly wise 
they could at least have that as a production hub and platform central 
to some markets.


Given Soft was finally murdered in cold blood with the misguided 
intention of re-resourcing and re-focusing heavily on less efforts, 
and everything I heard on all channels pretty much sings the same song 
(sorry, no mustache twirling, cat petting backlit villain sitting on 
an iron chair whipping Chris and Maurice into performing unspeakable 
acts), I seriously, seriously doubt ICE as a code base will do 
anything except rotting on the vines.


Bifrost though might soon be able to do a lot of the things ICE was 
good for, and a few more to boot. Just give it four or five years and 
a few buckets of early adopter blood on the floors and see! In the 
meantime, stick to Soft, look at Houdini, or just curl up and cry if 
ICE is a key part of your day; there is nothing, nor there will be for 
a few years, that can do exactly all the same things as elegantly 
within the domain of what ICE does well (though some other things ICE 
doesn't do so well at are possible elsewhere).


Fabric has some visual programming cooking up as well according to 
Paul, but I don't know when and to what extent it'll be available and 
fruible. Right now I give it more of a chance than I'll give to 
Bifrost to be useful for something next year or two.




On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Katherine Rodtsbrooks 
mailto:krodtsbro...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I sincerely hope that Autodesk won't throw away what was
working... let's move Ice over to another package!

-- 
Katherine Jones





--
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship 
it and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Luxology Modo 50% off for this mailing list - A new word from Brad Peebler

[Dan Neumann]

I am interested in the webinar.
On Mar 6, 2014 8:50 AM, "Tim Crowson" 
wrote:

>  More contact from Brad off-list He says the following...
>
>  *I've been thinking about how this all went down and I'm feeling a bit
> sad about it. I have a new idea. People should not feel like they have to
> rush to make a move. They don't! Soft is still awesome and will be for
> years to come. Rather than offering another promo code what I would like to
> do is offer an extended trial of MODO for anyone who wants it. They can
> contact me directly and I'll get them setup with a 60 day license. My offer
> still stands that anyone who talks to me directly will also find that I am
> a man of my word (with regard to the code). Wink wink. I can't publicly
> extend that offer but I will stand by it for anyone on that list.*
>
>  *I would also be willing to set up an invitation only webinar for the
> list so we can talk openly under a "gentlemens NDA". I'd love to clear up
> some of the confusion about MODO being built as a modeler only and share
> some short, mid and long term goals for the product. Finally, I'm getting
> quite a bit of email this week so if someone doesn't hear from me straight
> away please feel free to send your email again. I won't be offended to get
> spammed. :)*
>
>
> If you guys are interested in taking him up in his webinar idea, please
> voice it! I'm pretty sure he can read these messages on the Google group,
> but if not I'm happy to convey your corporate response.
>
> -Tim
>
>
>

Re: Rendermap crashing

[Jason S]

Hi, Sorry I didnt see your reply. Mapify normally works pretty well.  I 
don't know why there should be any problem just due for the constant 
material (the most basic), but you can also try the mray constant, or 
play around with the ambient settings to get a constant-ish result.  
Best of Luck


On 03/08/14 16:26, Paul Griswold wrote:
I'm actually rendermapping a camera projected animation, so I am 
mapping the texture to the incandescence and then the inverted alpha 
to scale the transparency.  That gives me a baked rendermap that 
maintains the alpha and lighting from the camera projection.


I don't understand why Softimage doesn't have a built-in ability to 
render animated rendermaps, though.

ᐧ


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Jason S > wrote:


Hum.. intriging indeed..  so at least now you can put your
lambert's ambient at 3.33 to make it constant
(if your scene ambient is at default 0.3)


On 03/08/14 16:08, Paul Griswold wrote:

Looks like switching to Lambert fixed the problem.  I don't
understand why a constant material would cause a crash, though.


ᐧ


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jason S mailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Does it work with a plain phong?  if not, would eliminating
all other objects do the trick?


On 03/08/14 15:48, Paul Griswold wrote:

I haven't been able to catch any messages unfortunately.

I do wonder if it's because I'm using a constant shader on
the object being rendermapped.  Previously I'd applied a
Lambert.
ᐧ


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Jason S
mailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Have you checked the last "Verbose" messages before
crashing?

I would think it's probably due to a specific object in
particular, and/or copies of it if the case being.


On 03/08/14 15:31, Paul Griswold wrote:

I have a ton of animated rendermapping to do, so I'm
using Mapify from Sajjad Amjad.

The problem I'm having is a LOT of crashes.  I can't
seem to find any consistent reason for it.  I've been
able to get it to render out 24 frames, 42 frames, and
then sometimes Softimage will crash after just 2 frames.

Is there a more stable way to render out a large number
of animated rendermaps?  Or is this a Mental Ray /
Softimage problem?

Thanks,

Paul


ᐧ

Re: Migrate Ice

[Raffaele Fragapane]

I think you're extremely unlikely to see something like that.
The only app that could possibly benefit and take the windows dependencies
might be max, but rumors have long had it that the max team pretty much
outright refused it back then betting the horse on a half arsed
implementation of TP instead. That PM has, since then, been fired I believe.

Maya will be the first to receive Bifrost, and Bifrost is actually
stand-alone philosophically and architecturally, so it might or might not
be plugged into other software or become its own thing. I'm sure in the
back of someone's mind at AD there's this possibility, or at least back-up
plan, that if everything else goes to shit monopoly wise they could at
least have that as a production hub and platform central to some markets.

Given Soft was finally murdered in cold blood with the misguided intention
of re-resourcing and re-focusing heavily on less efforts, and everything I
heard on all channels pretty much sings the same song (sorry, no mustache
twirling, cat petting backlit villain sitting on an iron chair whipping
Chris and Maurice into performing unspeakable acts), I seriously, seriously
doubt ICE as a code base will do anything except rotting on the vines.

Bifrost though might soon be able to do a lot of the things ICE was good
for, and a few more to boot. Just give it four or five years and a few
buckets of early adopter blood on the floors and see! In the meantime,
stick to Soft, look at Houdini, or just curl up and cry if ICE is a key
part of your day; there is nothing, nor there will be for a few years, that
can do exactly all the same things as elegantly within the domain of what
ICE does well (though some other things ICE doesn't do so well at are
possible elsewhere).

Fabric has some visual programming cooking up as well according to Paul,
but I don't know when and to what extent it'll be available and fruible.
Right now I give it more of a chance than I'll give to Bifrost to be useful
for something next year or two.



On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 4:37 PM, Katherine Rodtsbrooks <
krodtsbro...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I sincerely hope that Autodesk won't throw away what was working... let's
> move Ice over to another package!
>
> --
> Katherine Jones
>



-- 
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Jason S]

I agree that it should/could not happen publicly.

On 03/09/14 0:57, Maurice Patel wrote:

@Chris. Autodesk cannot and will not answer such questions publicly. And if you 
are asking this you really have not researched the matter, which is why I doubt 
it is anything other than maybe wishful thinking. It is one thing to engage in 
wishful thinking with the community just don't expect anyone from Autodesk to 
engage in the discussion.
Maurice

Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Chris Covelli
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 12:43 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your 
price?

@Maurice,
I cant speak to Emilio or Daniel's seriousness about this question,( although I 
wouldn't doubt their sincerity right out of the gate either ), but how would 
someone inquire about this?

Chris Covelli
http://www.polygonpusherinc.com/
http://exocortex.com/products/species
TurboSquid 
Models


   

RE: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Maurice Patel]

@Chris. Autodesk cannot and will not answer such questions publicly. And if you 
are asking this you really have not researched the matter, which is why I doubt 
it is anything other than maybe wishful thinking. It is one thing to engage in 
wishful thinking with the community just don't expect anyone from Autodesk to 
engage in the discussion.
Maurice

Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Chris Covelli
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 12:43 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your 
price?

@Maurice,
I cant speak to Emilio or Daniel's seriousness about this question,( although I 
wouldn't doubt their sincerity right out of the gate either ), but how would 
someone inquire about this?

Chris Covelli
http://www.polygonpusherinc.com/
http://exocortex.com/products/species
TurboSquid 
Models


<>

Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Jason S]

(phone number)

On 03/09/14 0:42, Chris Covelli wrote:

@Maurice,

I cant speak to Emilio or Daniel's seriousness about this question,( 
although I wouldn't doubt their sincerity right out of the gate either 
), but how would someone inquire about this?


Chris Covelli
http://www.polygonpusherinc.com/
http://exocortex.com/products/species
TurboSquid Models 




On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Maurice Patel 
mailto:maurice.pa...@autodesk.com>> wrote:


Hi Emilio,
If you are even remotely serious about this, which it appears not,
this is not the right way to even begin going about having such a
discussion so don't expect any answer to the question here from
Autodesk.
Maurice

Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél: 514 954-7134 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com

[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
] On Behalf Of
Emilio Hernandez
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 12:19 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Subject: Re: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk,
what's your price?

Yes Autodesk, tell us what is your price?

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.

2014-03-08 22:44 GMT-06:00 Andres Stephens mailto:drais...@outlook.com>>>:


Curious proposition, if I could contribute in some way, I will.
But I like the proposition.

From: Daniel G>
Sent: Saturday, March 8, 2014 22:47
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

>

Everyone has a price.

Can we all agree that if somebody offered Autodesk $100 million,
they would sell Softimage in a heartbeat? Their shareholders would
demand it.

Okay. So somewhere between zero and $100 million is the real,
magic number. We have only to get somebody at Autodesk to put it
in writing -- or somehow appeal to the shareholders directly.

The network of people and studios who are very upset about this is
already significant, and they have the collective ability to put
together and disseminate perhaps the most polished crowdfunding
campaign the world has ever seen.

Keep in mind that not only would existing customers contribute,
but also many champions of open source and lovers of computer
graphics would help to expose SI's source code to the light of day
-- the kind of money you couldn't get ahold of by trying to raise
money the conventional way, for a conventional company.

For those who've already given up: at some point we (as a culture,
as a species) have to move beyond raw, unthinking capitalism. Far
from an isolated casualty, this is yet another example where
humans reflexively decide they have no power in the face of an
impersonal corporation.

It is simply not right for a company to take possession of
something loved by so many only to bury it in the ground, for no
other reason than PROFIT. It's all "just" bits on a hard drive,
and there's no reason it can't be out in the wild helping people
to create beautiful things. The fact that so many are just rolling
over and giving up, as if this is perfectly acceptable behavior
for a company in the year 2014, is the real tragedy here.

And for anybody who maintains that Autodesk would never part with
SI due to patents -- Google has already set a precedent for this:
https://www.google.com/patents/opnpledge/pledge/ . Autodesk could
similarly pledge not to enforce its Softimage-related patents so
long as nobody tries to re-commercialize anything deriving from
the source code. Win-win.

Autodesk, what is your price?

Re: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Chris Covelli]

@Maurice,

I cant speak to Emilio or Daniel's seriousness about this question,(
although I wouldn't doubt their sincerity right out of the gate either ),
but how would someone inquire about this?

Chris Covelli
http://www.polygonpusherinc.com/
http://exocortex.com/products/species
TurboSquid 
Models


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 9:25 PM, Maurice Patel wrote:

> Hi Emilio,
> If you are even remotely serious about this, which it appears not, this is
> not the right way to even begin going about having such a discussion so
> don't expect any answer to the question here from Autodesk.
> Maurice
>
> Maurice Patel
> Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Emilio Hernandez
> Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 12:19 AM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> Subject: Re: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's
> your price?
>
> Yes Autodesk, tell us what is your price?
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
> 2014-03-08 22:44 GMT-06:00 Andres Stephens  drais...@outlook.com>>:
>
>
> Curious proposition, if I could contribute in some way, I will. But I like
> the proposition.
>
> From: Daniel G
> Sent: Saturday, March 8, 2014 22:47
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >
>
> Everyone has a price.
>
> Can we all agree that if somebody offered Autodesk $100 million, they
> would sell Softimage in a heartbeat? Their shareholders would demand it.
>
> Okay. So somewhere between zero and $100 million is the real, magic
> number. We have only to get somebody at Autodesk to put it in writing -- or
> somehow appeal to the shareholders directly.
>
> The network of people and studios who are very upset about this is already
> significant, and they have the collective ability to put together and
> disseminate perhaps the most polished crowdfunding campaign the world has
> ever seen.
>
> Keep in mind that not only would existing customers contribute, but also
> many champions of open source and lovers of computer graphics would help to
> expose SI's source code to the light of day -- the kind of money you
> couldn't get ahold of by trying to raise money the conventional way, for a
> conventional company.
>
> For those who've already given up: at some point we (as a culture, as a
> species) have to move beyond raw, unthinking capitalism. Far from an
> isolated casualty, this is yet another example where humans reflexively
> decide they have no power in the face of an impersonal corporation.
>
> It is simply not right for a company to take possession of something loved
> by so many only to bury it in the ground, for no other reason than PROFIT.
> It's all "just" bits on a hard drive, and there's no reason it can't be out
> in the wild helping people to create beautiful things. The fact that so
> many are just rolling over and giving up, as if this is perfectly
> acceptable behavior for a company in the year 2014, is the real tragedy
> here.
>
> And for anybody who maintains that Autodesk would never part with SI due
> to patents -- Google has already set a precedent for this:
> https://www.google.com/patents/opnpledge/pledge/ . Autodesk could
> similarly pledge not to enforce its Softimage-related patents so long as
> nobody tries to re-commercialize anything deriving from the source code.
> Win-win.
>
> Autodesk, what is your price?
>
>

Re: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Emilio Hernandez]

Hey Maurice, you never know.

Maybe I am being serious about it.

To whom I may address to first see if you are interested in selling
Softimage?

Thank you.

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.

Migrate Ice

[Katherine Rodtsbrooks]

I sincerely hope that Autodesk won't throw away what was working... let's
move Ice over to another package!

-- 
Katherine Jones

RE: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Maurice Patel]

Hi Emilio,
If you are even remotely serious about this, which it appears not, this is not 
the right way to even begin going about having such a discussion so don't 
expect any answer to the question here from Autodesk.
Maurice

Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Emilio Hernandez
Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2014 12:19 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your 
price?

Yes Autodesk, tell us what is your price?

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.

2014-03-08 22:44 GMT-06:00 Andres Stephens 
mailto:drais...@outlook.com>>:


Curious proposition, if I could contribute in some way, I will. But I like the 
proposition.

From: Daniel G
Sent: Saturday, March 8, 2014 22:47
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com

Everyone has a price.

Can we all agree that if somebody offered Autodesk $100 million, they would 
sell Softimage in a heartbeat? Their shareholders would demand it.

Okay. So somewhere between zero and $100 million is the real, magic number. We 
have only to get somebody at Autodesk to put it in writing -- or somehow appeal 
to the shareholders directly.

The network of people and studios who are very upset about this is already 
significant, and they have the collective ability to put together and 
disseminate perhaps the most polished crowdfunding campaign the world has ever 
seen.

Keep in mind that not only would existing customers contribute, but also many 
champions of open source and lovers of computer graphics would help to expose 
SI's source code to the light of day -- the kind of money you couldn't get 
ahold of by trying to raise money the conventional way, for a conventional 
company.

For those who've already given up: at some point we (as a culture, as a 
species) have to move beyond raw, unthinking capitalism. Far from an isolated 
casualty, this is yet another example where humans reflexively decide they have 
no power in the face of an impersonal corporation.

It is simply not right for a company to take possession of something loved by 
so many only to bury it in the ground, for no other reason than PROFIT. It's 
all "just" bits on a hard drive, and there's no reason it can't be out in the 
wild helping people to create beautiful things. The fact that so many are just 
rolling over and giving up, as if this is perfectly acceptable behavior for a 
company in the year 2014, is the real tragedy here.

And for anybody who maintains that Autodesk would never part with SI due to 
patents -- Google has already set a precedent for this: 
https://www.google.com/patents/opnpledge/pledge/ . Autodesk could similarly 
pledge not to enforce its Softimage-related patents so long as nobody tries to 
re-commercialize anything deriving from the source code. Win-win.

Autodesk, what is your price?

<>

The truth about Autodesk and Softimage. Did Autodesk try?

[Emilio Hernandez]

http://e-roja.com/the-truth-about-softimage-and-autodesk/
---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.

Re: Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Emilio Hernandez]

Yes Autodesk, tell us what is your price?

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-08 22:44 GMT-06:00 Andres Stephens :

>
>
> Curious proposition, if I could contribute in some way, I will. But I like
> the proposition.
>
> *From:* Daniel G 
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 8, 2014 22:47 
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>
> Everyone has a price.
>
> Can we all agree that if somebody offered Autodesk $100 million, they
> would sell Softimage in a heartbeat? Their shareholders would demand it.
>
> Okay. So somewhere between zero and $100 million is the real, magic
> number. We have only to get somebody at Autodesk to put it in writing -- or
> somehow appeal to the shareholders directly.
>
> The network of people and studios who are very upset about this is already
> significant, and they have the collective ability to put together and
> disseminate perhaps the most polished crowdfunding campaign the world has
> ever seen.
>
> Keep in mind that not only would existing customers contribute, but also
> many champions of open source and lovers of computer graphics would help to
> expose SI's source code to the light of day -- the kind of money you
> couldn't get ahold of by trying to raise money the conventional way, for a
> conventional company.
>
> For those who've already given up: at some point we (as a culture, as a
> species) have to move beyond raw, unthinking capitalism. Far from an
> isolated casualty, this is yet another example where humans reflexively
> decide they have no power in the face of an impersonal corporation.
>
> It is simply not right for a company to take possession of something loved
> by so many only to bury it in the ground, for no other reason than PROFIT.
> It's all "just" bits on a hard drive, and there's no reason it can't be out
> in the wild helping people to create beautiful things. The fact that so
> many are just rolling over and giving up, as if this is perfectly
> acceptable behavior for a company in the year 2014, is the real tragedy
> here.
>
> And for anybody who maintains that Autodesk would never part with SI due
> to patents -- Google has already set a precedent for this:
> https://www.google.com/patents/opnpledge/pledge/ . Autodesk could
> similarly pledge not to enforce its Softimage-related patents so long as
> nobody tries to re-commercialize anything deriving from the source code.
> Win-win.
>
> *Autodesk, what is your price?*
>

Re: Listening

[Emilio Hernandez]

Well I just post it, adding a couple of videos and images.

http://e-roja.com/the-truth-about-softimage-and-autodesk/



---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-08 20:40 GMT-06:00 Emilio Hernandez :

> Well it seems that they stopped listening...
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-08 14:21 GMT-06:00 Sylvain Lebeau :
>
> Peotic prose
>> Emilio, you cant say it better then that.
>>
>> thanks for sharing your insights!
>>
>> sly
>>
>>  *Sylvain Lebeau // SHED*
>> V-P/Visual effects supervisor
>> 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8
>> T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM  <
>> http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> VFX Curriculum 03: Compositing Basics
>> mail to: s...@shedmtl.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 8, 2014, at 3:27 AM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:
>>
>> Autodesk tried to kill Softimage right from the beggining.  Since the
>> very first time Softimage never showed up in the front page of their
>> website.  All they showed up was Maya and MAX.  Never gave the deserved
>> attention and right branding/marketing.
>>
>> You never put enough attention and effort on really growing up the
>> sales.  The main dev team was ripped off and plugged into Maya, and
>> delivered only lame upgrades year after year.
>>
>> Even with this, Softimage delivered amazing work created by amazing
>> artists.  Not only in the big studios, but from the independent freelancers
>> to mid size studios.
>>
>> You want to listen, ok. listen well.
>>
>> You are blind with your Maya paradigm.  Maya artists that trully went to
>> start using Softimage, and not overwhelmed by such a pristine UI, that at
>> first view from a Maya user, seems that it lacks of a lot of stuff, without
>> stupid icons everywhere. Never went back to Maya.  I personally know
>> several of them.  Here in my country, there were two studios that went into
>> the endeavour of starting a full 3D animated feature film.  Right from the
>> beggining they chose Softimage.
>>
>> At my former small studio, the artists that I hired were Maya guys, after
>> I trainned them in Softimage, they said in a meeting that Softimage opened
>> them a new door.
>>
>> Recently one of them freelanced for the Eugenio Derbez latest movie doing
>> some character animation for this film, and he used Softimage not Maya.  At
>> first he was asigned only one shot as he entered late.  He deliver faster
>> than other freelance guys using Maya, and he got two more shots.
>>
>> Softimage "The suite plugin", each time it is used in production is
>> sorrounded by success.  But each time such stories hit the media, you take
>> care of diminishing the use of Softimage.
>>
>> Before Eric Mootz ported his addons to Maya, he was never in your
>> spotlight, the same with Arnold and others.  Now you present proudly Eric
>> Mootz, and his tools in a Maya environment.  If it is Softimage, you bury
>> the name, but if it is Maya you don't hesitate to put into all the
>> frontpages you can, and fill your mouth with it.
>>
>> Your statement of "we tried" it is nothing else but a big lie.  You never
>> tried.
>>
>> The PETA commercial.
>>
>> When did you featured that in the Area and in your front page and filled
>> your mouth that it was made with Softimage?  NEVER.  Three awards given by
>> the VES society and did you care to write even a few lines about being
>> proud that Softimage was used for that amazing work?
>>
>> And you are saying that you tried?
>>
>> You kept us all these years with rumors, rumors, and finally you ended
>> these rumors.  Meanwhile you were saying that Softimage was to stay with
>> Autodesk, and in good hands...
>>
>> If Softimage has a name it is because of the Softimage community, not
>> because of you.
>>
>> Do you really believe that Maya is the future?  I call it going back to
>> the past.  If Maya was really a better choice for us, you wouldn't be now
>> in this position.
>>
>> I suggest you take a look to a video I made to compare the workflow to
>> achieve the same effect in Maya vs Softimage.  This is just a small example
>> of the general workflow.
>>
>> https://vimeo.com/87722342
>>
>> Being unbiased you tell me which one, is the one that should be killed,
>> and which one deserves your attention.
>>
>> You say you can't afford to put more money into Softimage?
>>
>> Well don't do it.  Just keep fixing  the bugs and deliver SP, but open
>> the SDK to allow further development from 3rd party developers.
>>
>> You will still earn money from the subscriptions, and tech support, while
>> you allow others to invest their money to develop new tools for Softimage.
>>
>> Since the time you acquired Softimage the real improvemnts are from 3rd
>> pary devs.  Not from you.
>>
>> You don't put to sale Softimage because you know that if another company
>> acquires it,

RE: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan

[Maurice Patel]

Hi Sebastian,

I'll try to answer your question as best I can. I have been reading the threads 
and trying to figure out how best to answer questions like the one you posed, 
or even if it was worth it. Especially,  given the fact that there is no real 
reason for anyone here to trust anything I say. I would feel the same if I were 
standing in your shoes - and I have in the past. Before I answer your question 
officially for Autodesk I would like to share my own personal experience of 
situations like these. Once, rather Ironically, when I was working for 
Softimage in 2000, their leadership team asked me to communicate the decision 
to stop development on Media Illusion (another acquisition) to our customers, 
many of whom I had personally trained. These things do not get any easier with 
time.

The decision to make Softimage 2015 the last release was not made because of 
cost-issues - that is to say it was not done to reduce the operating expenses 
of the M&E division - which is why there was no reduction in work force. The 
decision was made so that we could focus our efforts on fewer projects enabling 
us to better execute on them and free resources to research new areas of 
innovation. Luc-Eric explained this in a bit more detail earlier. The decision 
was made at the end of last year after many months of deliberation and it was 
not something that was undertaken lightly (Autodesk's annual strategic planning 
cycle, when decisions like these are typically made, kicks off in earnest in 
September). There were many factors that led to that decision and although 
hindsight is great these factors are not always predictable. Several of the 
plans we had previously made did not work out as expected and so evolved 
significantly over time. Anyone who has ever had to manage a business or 
project will probably be familiar with the fact that plans can change quite 
rapidly (and in unexpected directions) as new events occur and you react to 
them. To quote someone a whole lot smarter than I: "the best laid plans of mice 
and men often go astray." We were optimistic that some of the R&D methodologies 
and innovations we were experimenting with would prove more fruitful than they 
did (e.g. projects like skyline). Does that mean we should not have attempted 
them? Personally, I think we need to try and do new things even if we know that 
99% of attempts at innovation will end in failure - after all they sometimes 
end in success (e.g. Bifrost). Ultimately when we say "focus" what we mean is 
better balancing our finite resources so that we can still invest in new 
research projects - even if these might fail - while continuing to evolve and 
improve existing customer workflows. To enable us to continue the former we had 
to focus on Maya and 3ds Max for the latter.

Regards

maurice


Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Sebastien Sterling
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 9:55 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan

Maurice ? is softimage being discontinued because of cost issues ?
or because it is impeding other AD products ?
it may seem redundant, but this question has not been answered.


<>

Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Andres Stephens]

Curious proposition, if I could contribute in some way, I will. But I like the 
proposition. 





From: Daniel G
Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎March‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎22‎:‎47‎ ‎
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com







Everyone has a price.




Can we all agree that if somebody offered Autodesk $100 million, they would 
sell Softimage in a heartbeat? Their shareholders would demand it.




Okay. So somewhere between zero and $100 million is the real, magic number. We 
have only to get somebody at Autodesk to put it in writing -- or somehow appeal 
to the shareholders directly.




The network of people and studios who are very upset about this is already 
significant, and they have the collective ability to put together and 
disseminate perhaps the most polished crowdfunding campaign the world has ever 
seen.




Keep in mind that not only would existing customers contribute, but also many 
champions of open source and lovers of computer graphics would help to expose 
SI's source code to the light of day -- the kind of money you couldn't get 
ahold of by trying to raise money the conventional way, for a conventional 
company.




For those who've already given up: at some point we (as a culture, as a 
species) have to move beyond raw, unthinking capitalism. Far from an isolated 
casualty, this is yet another example where humans reflexively decide they have 
no power in the face of an impersonal corporation.




It is simply not right for a company to take possession of something loved by 
so many only to bury it in the ground, for no other reason than PROFIT. It's 
all "just" bits on a hard drive, and there's no reason it can't be out in the 
wild helping people to create beautiful things. The fact that so many are just 
rolling over and giving up, as if this is perfectly acceptable behavior for a 
company in the year 2014, is the real tragedy here.




And for anybody who maintains that Autodesk would never part with SI due to 
patents -- Google has already set a precedent for this: 
https://www.google.com/patents/opnpledge/pledge/ . Autodesk could similarly 
pledge not to enforce its Softimage-related patents so long as nobody tries to 
re-commercialize anything deriving from the source code. Win-win.





Autodesk, what is your price?

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Adam Sale]

You know.. now would be a perfect time for one of those xyz and you type
arena style head to head app match ups. Lets show people how much more
advanced softimage is in a vast number of areas. Head to head when people
see how much quicker one can work in softimage, it might cause even more
murmuring and stirring in the industry or with shareholders. Promote the
crap out of this head to head matchup.. hell bring max in too for a cozy
threesome.

We could come up with a list of tasks from each area of a typical
production and see which app is most efficient with regards to number of
clicks per task, number of sub menus to access per task, number of plugins
needed to execute said task, resusability or repurposing of asset, non
linearity of task, etc.

I know there are areas where maya would win, mainly in areas where
softimage was poorly neglected these past years, but in terms of core
functionality,

I think we all know which app would come out on top by a mile...

If anything else, it could be like Rocky entering the ring for one last
fight.

Adam

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Adam Sale]

Shoot.. trimmed. :)

Re: The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[David Gallagher]

Does anyone have a guesstimate of how many Softimage users there are? 4000?


On 3/8/2014 8:47 PM, Daniel G wrote:

Everyone has a price.

Can we all agree that if somebody offered Autodesk $100 million, they 
would sell Softimage in a heartbeat? Their shareholders would demand it.


Okay. So somewhere between zero and $100 million is the real, magic 
number. We have only to get somebody at Autodesk to put it in writing 
-- or somehow appeal to the shareholders directly.


The network of people and studios who are very upset about this is 
already significant, and they have the collective ability to put 
together and disseminate perhaps the most polished crowdfunding 
campaign the world has ever seen.


Keep in mind that not only would existing customers contribute, but 
also many champions of open source and lovers of computer graphics 
would help to expose SI's source code to the light of day -- the kind 
of money you couldn't get ahold of by trying to raise money the 
conventional way, for a conventional company.


For those who've already given up: at some point we (as a culture, as 
a species) have to move beyond raw, unthinking capitalism. Far from an 
isolated casualty, this is yet another example where humans 
reflexively decide they have no power in the face of an impersonal 
corporation.


It is simply not right for a company to take possession of something 
loved by so many only to bury it in the ground, for no other reason 
than PROFIT. It's all "just" bits on a hard drive, and there's no 
reason it can't be out in the wild helping people to create beautiful 
things. The fact that so many are just rolling over and giving up, as 
if this is perfectly acceptable behavior for a company in the year 
2014, is the real tragedy here.


And for anybody who maintains that Autodesk would never part with SI 
due to patents -- Google has already set a precedent for this: 
https://www.google.com/patents/opnpledge/pledge/ . Autodesk could 
similarly pledge not to enforce its Softimage-related patents so long 
as nobody tries to re-commercialize anything deriving from the source 
code. Win-win.


*Autodesk, what is your price?*

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Adam Sale]

Well spoken Greg.
On Mar 8, 2014 10:20 AM, "Greg Punchatz"  wrote:

> Keep up the noise people!!
>
> Change has already happened keep up the pressure folks. Write to your
> congressman..Ermm, I mean this guy...
>
> chris.vienn...@autodesk.com
>
> Please PLEASE... don't name call... but for god's sake let him know why
> this is a BIG MISTAKE for his company and yours! It's worse for them than
> it is for us, for them to kill soft..it simply makes no short or long term
> sense. They are doing nothing but alienating users, not just on the
> Softimage side---as I have not met a single Maya or Max user that actually
> likes the company called Autodesk.
>
> Let him know that there is a market for Soft..and the ONLY reason they are
> not making a killing on it is that they won't invest and market it...that's
> it...otherwise it would have been gaining and growing the user-base like
> mad.
>
> It also gives AD a safety net... Maya is busting at the seams...
> they are now having to make programs that run outside of Maya to do a
> tenth of what ICE does...Biofrost... Bio-hazard is more like it from the
> word on the street.
>
> If it falls apart, and AD falls on its face, as it has many times with
> attempted "rewrite" (Toxic any one?..remember that was supposed to turn
> into the 3d app too..lol, how quickly people forget ADs blunders. How many
> millions were wasted on that dev...vs what it costs to buy and maintain
> soft???). Soft is the only recently rewritten core...major overhaul was
> done for ice.. major)
>
> What Autodesk needs is a Walt Disney, a John Lassiter or dare I say a
> Willy Wonka? It needs a visionary leader that has been in the trenches of
> all aspects of 3d and compositing. Who understands the needs of the big and
> small shops alike...
>
> One who knows the future is not in a code base which is more than 24 years
> old. One that understands that if the customer is happy, the stock holders
> will be happy. The person should not be driven by board meetings, but
> rather exciting the entire 3d user base instead of alienating them.
>
> One who understands that what makes a great development team is great and
> transparent interaction with its beta testers..
>
> One who is not afraid to let one product outshine the rest on its own
> merits...(like the Whiskey Tree elysium demo that was axed at siggraph last
> year since it outshone the Disney technology AD licensed.)
>
> One that understands there should be a production team at AD using their
> products to produce short films, so they have a freaking clue what the real
> world needs...this is how both softimage and alias used to do it...before
> they were bought by companies that simply don't understand how creativity
> works...
>
> One that the user aspires to be like..because that person "makes the
> cool stuff"
>
> AD you are making creative software...AD needs to foster a creative
> culture...period. IF AD thinks you have, I can assure you that you have
> not... your results speak for themselves.
>
> Don't kill Soft, prop it up and keep it viable...and MARKET IT!
> It can already do so much your other two 3d apps can't...
>
> Do the same with the rest... keep them alive..until AD delivers a new
> modern app that we will all be happy to move to.
>

The one question I have not seen asked: Autodesk, what's your price?

[Daniel G]

Everyone has a price.

Can we all agree that if somebody offered Autodesk $100 million, they would
sell Softimage in a heartbeat? Their shareholders would demand it.

Okay. So somewhere between zero and $100 million is the real, magic number.
We have only to get somebody at Autodesk to put it in writing -- or somehow
appeal to the shareholders directly.

The network of people and studios who are very upset about this is already
significant, and they have the collective ability to put together and
disseminate perhaps the most polished crowdfunding campaign the world has
ever seen.

Keep in mind that not only would existing customers contribute, but also
many champions of open source and lovers of computer graphics would help to
expose SI's source code to the light of day -- the kind of money you
couldn't get ahold of by trying to raise money the conventional way, for a
conventional company.

For those who've already given up: at some point we (as a culture, as a
species) have to move beyond raw, unthinking capitalism. Far from an
isolated casualty, this is yet another example where humans reflexively
decide they have no power in the face of an impersonal corporation.

It is simply not right for a company to take possession of something loved
by so many only to bury it in the ground, for no other reason than PROFIT.
It's all "just" bits on a hard drive, and there's no reason it can't be out
in the wild helping people to create beautiful things. The fact that so
many are just rolling over and giving up, as if this is perfectly
acceptable behavior for a company in the year 2014, is the real tragedy
here.

And for anybody who maintains that Autodesk would never part with SI due to
patents -- Google has already set a precedent for this:
https://www.google.com/patents/opnpledge/pledge/ . Autodesk could similarly
pledge not to enforce its Softimage-related patents so long as nobody tries
to re-commercialize anything deriving from the source code. Win-win.

*Autodesk, what is your price?*

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[David Saber]

Thanks Greg, THAT is the kind of post I want to read.
Dave

funny that we are looking at other packages before maya

[demianpe...@yahoo.com]

Autodesk want to force us to Move to Maya or max, to save money in development, 
We use soft because Maya ...well we know just ... well we know that is not that 
good.  And they haven't done any great advances with it.
Now all the friend talk about moving to Houdini or modo. But non of them at 
their companies mention moving to Maya or max. 
The same thing will happen with max or Maya, they will remove one or the other.

I don't think is a good move, and they will lost more client than actually win.

Sounds like a lightwave core fiasco again.

Any toughts on this?

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

Re: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan

[Sebastien Sterling]

Maurice ? is softimage being discontinued because of cost issues ?

or because it is impeding other AD products ?

it may seem redundant, but this question has not been answered.


On 9 March 2014 00:57, Maurice Patel  wrote:

> Hi John
> Yes - you can basically get back on subscription if your contract has
> expired within the year - either for Softimage or the Suite which would be
> the case if t expired in August. Even if this were not the case, you could
> still upgrade to ECS Premium 2014 to become eligible for the Ultimate Suite
> but it would be a bit more costly to do so.
> maurice
>
> Maurice Patel
> Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134
>
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard Sanchez
> Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 11:04 AM
> To: XSI List to post
> Subject: Re: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan
>
> Hi Maurice
> Thanks for the new info. My situation is this.
>
> 9. I did not renew my Subscription. Can I transition to Maya or 3ds Max?
> If you have purchased a new license or upgraded your Softimage within the
> last 365 days you can late-
> attach Subscription by paying the Late Renewal fee. Once you are current
> and on Subscription you will have access to the transition offerings
> previously described in
> question 5
> I am own the Maya/ Soft Creation suite. I would like to get ultimate just
> to keep my options open. My question is what does this mean? "you can
> late-attach Subscription by paying the Late Renewal fee" My sub expired in
> August.
> John
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Maurice Patel  > wrote:
> Hi Mr Hartog,
> Yes you are correct our websites have already been updated with the new
> information.
>
> http://static.autodesk.net/content/dam/autodesk/www/products/autodesk-softimage/docs/pdf/softimage_last_release_announcement_faq_update_mar7.pdf
>
> maurice
>
> Maurice Patel
> Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com> [mailto:
> softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com>] On Behalf Of Leendert A. Hartog
> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 4:58 PM
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com >
> Subject: Re: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan
> Hi mr. Patel,
> I assume, hopefully correctly, the positive changes you outline here will
> find their way in writing to the official website soon as well.
> Could you please confirm this and give an estimate when such "papers"
> will be available? Thanks in advance!
>
> --
>
> Leendert A. Hartog - Softimage hobbyist
> AKA Hirazi Blue - Administrator  @, NOT the owner of  si-community.com<
> http://si-community.com>
>
>
>
>
> --
> www.johnrichardsanchez.com
>

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Graham Bell]

Just to add to this.

By all means, reach out to Chris, as Greg mentions. But if there are any if you 
in UK/EMEA, then please feel free to contact me off list if you have any 
questions, queries etc, even about Maya.
And before anyone comes up with some theory that I’m being forced onto Maya, 
blah, blah, I should point out that ( as well as Soft), I’ve also been using 
Maya since v1.0


Graham



From: "g...@janimation.com" 
mailto:g...@janimation.com>>
Reply-To: 
"softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" 
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 12:20:00 -0600
To: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" 
mailto:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
Subject: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

Keep up the noise people!!

Change has already happened keep up the pressure folks. Write to your 
congressman..Ermm, I mean this guy...

chris.vienn...@autodesk.com

Please PLEASE... don't name call... but for god's sake let him know why this is 
a BIG MISTAKE for his company and yours! It's worse for them than it is for us, 
for them to kill soft..it simply makes no short or long term sense. They are 
doing nothing but alienating users, not just on the Softimage side---as I have 
not met a single Maya or Max user that actually likes the company called 
Autodesk.

Let him know that there is a market for Soft..and the ONLY reason they are not 
making a killing on it is that they won't invest and market it...that's 
it...otherwise it would have been gaining and growing the user-base like mad.

It also gives AD a safety net... Maya is busting at the seams...
they are now having to make programs that run outside of Maya to do a tenth of 
what ICE does...Biofrost... Bio-hazard is more like it from the word on the 
street.

If it falls apart, and AD falls on its face, as it has many times with 
attempted "rewrite" (Toxic any one?..remember that was supposed to turn into 
the 3d app too..lol, how quickly people forget ADs blunders. How many millions 
were wasted on that dev...vs what it costs to buy and maintain soft???). Soft 
is the only recently rewritten core...major overhaul was done for ice.. major)

What Autodesk needs is a Walt Disney, a John Lassiter or dare I say a Willy 
Wonka? It needs a visionary leader that has been in the trenches of all aspects 
of 3d and compositing. Who understands the needs of the big and small shops 
alike...

One who knows the future is not in a code base which is more than 24 years old. 
One that understands that if the customer is happy, the stock holders will be 
happy. The person should not be driven by board meetings, but rather exciting 
the entire 3d user base instead of alienating them.

One who understands that what makes a great development team is great and 
transparent interaction with its beta testers..

One who is not afraid to let one product outshine the rest on its own 
merits...(like the Whiskey Tree elysium demo that was axed at siggraph last 
year since it outshone the Disney technology AD licensed.)

One that understands there should be a production team at AD using their 
products to produce short films, so they have a freaking clue what the real 
world needs...this is how both softimage and alias used to do it...before they 
were bought by companies that simply don't understand how creativity works...

One that the user aspires to be like..because that person "makes the cool 
stuff"

AD you are making creative software...AD needs to foster a creative 
culture...period. IF AD thinks you have, I can assure you that you have not... 
your results speak for themselves.

Don't kill Soft, prop it up and keep it viable...and MARKET IT!
It can already do so much your other two 3d apps can't...

Do the same with the rest... keep them alive..until AD delivers a new modern 
app that we will all be happy to move to.
<>

Re: Listening

[Emilio Hernandez]

Well it seems that they stopped listening...

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-08 14:21 GMT-06:00 Sylvain Lebeau :

> Peotic prose
> Emilio, you cant say it better then that.
>
> thanks for sharing your insights!
>
> sly
>
> *Sylvain Lebeau // SHED*
> V-P/Visual effects supervisor
> 1410, RUE STANLEY, 11E ÉTAGE MONTRÉAL (QUÉBEC) H3A 1P8
> T 514 849-1555 F 514 849-5025 WWW.SHEDMTL.COM  <
> http://WWW.SHEDMTL.COM >
>
>
>
>
> VFX Curriculum 03: Compositing Basics
> mail to: s...@shedmtl.com
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 8, 2014, at 3:27 AM, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:
>
> Autodesk tried to kill Softimage right from the beggining.  Since the very
> first time Softimage never showed up in the front page of their website.
> All they showed up was Maya and MAX.  Never gave the deserved attention and
> right branding/marketing.
>
> You never put enough attention and effort on really growing up the sales.
> The main dev team was ripped off and plugged into Maya, and delivered only
> lame upgrades year after year.
>
> Even with this, Softimage delivered amazing work created by amazing
> artists.  Not only in the big studios, but from the independent freelancers
> to mid size studios.
>
> You want to listen, ok. listen well.
>
> You are blind with your Maya paradigm.  Maya artists that trully went to
> start using Softimage, and not overwhelmed by such a pristine UI, that at
> first view from a Maya user, seems that it lacks of a lot of stuff, without
> stupid icons everywhere. Never went back to Maya.  I personally know
> several of them.  Here in my country, there were two studios that went into
> the endeavour of starting a full 3D animated feature film.  Right from the
> beggining they chose Softimage.
>
> At my former small studio, the artists that I hired were Maya guys, after
> I trainned them in Softimage, they said in a meeting that Softimage opened
> them a new door.
>
> Recently one of them freelanced for the Eugenio Derbez latest movie doing
> some character animation for this film, and he used Softimage not Maya.  At
> first he was asigned only one shot as he entered late.  He deliver faster
> than other freelance guys using Maya, and he got two more shots.
>
> Softimage "The suite plugin", each time it is used in production is
> sorrounded by success.  But each time such stories hit the media, you take
> care of diminishing the use of Softimage.
>
> Before Eric Mootz ported his addons to Maya, he was never in your
> spotlight, the same with Arnold and others.  Now you present proudly Eric
> Mootz, and his tools in a Maya environment.  If it is Softimage, you bury
> the name, but if it is Maya you don't hesitate to put into all the
> frontpages you can, and fill your mouth with it.
>
> Your statement of "we tried" it is nothing else but a big lie.  You never
> tried.
>
> The PETA commercial.
>
> When did you featured that in the Area and in your front page and filled
> your mouth that it was made with Softimage?  NEVER.  Three awards given by
> the VES society and did you care to write even a few lines about being
> proud that Softimage was used for that amazing work?
>
> And you are saying that you tried?
>
> You kept us all these years with rumors, rumors, and finally you ended
> these rumors.  Meanwhile you were saying that Softimage was to stay with
> Autodesk, and in good hands...
>
> If Softimage has a name it is because of the Softimage community, not
> because of you.
>
> Do you really believe that Maya is the future?  I call it going back to
> the past.  If Maya was really a better choice for us, you wouldn't be now
> in this position.
>
> I suggest you take a look to a video I made to compare the workflow to
> achieve the same effect in Maya vs Softimage.  This is just a small example
> of the general workflow.
>
> https://vimeo.com/87722342
>
> Being unbiased you tell me which one, is the one that should be killed,
> and which one deserves your attention.
>
> You say you can't afford to put more money into Softimage?
>
> Well don't do it.  Just keep fixing  the bugs and deliver SP, but open the
> SDK to allow further development from 3rd party developers.
>
> You will still earn money from the subscriptions, and tech support, while
> you allow others to invest their money to develop new tools for Softimage.
>
> Since the time you acquired Softimage the real improvemnts are from 3rd
> pary devs.  Not from you.
>
> You don't put to sale Softimage because you know that if another company
> acquires it,  in a year or two Softimage will start kicking Maya's ass with
> the right branding and marketing.
>
> You also know that if you start to give Softimage the place it deserves,
> artists that never used Softimage before, will start using it.  Maya sales
> will start to drop while more Softimage seats start to appear, and you
> don't want to look bad in front of your stock holders of the 

Re: SI and Houdini

[David Saber]

Is there an animation mixer in Houdini?

Re: Webinars and training

[Jason S]

Oh I know Rodeo, that's how I know their so small (yet so BIG)

On 03/08/14 20:03, Eric Thivierge wrote:


Rodeo does great work. Surprised you haven't heard of them before

On Mar 8, 2014 7:10 PM, "Jason S" > wrote:


Small yet somehow BIG place (for some reason)

On 03/08/14 18:55, Jason S wrote:

Also . .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .. http://vimeo.com/77822882
  (from the same place)

Re: Webinars and training

[Eric Thivierge]

Rodeo does great work. Surprised you haven't heard of them before
On Mar 8, 2014 7:10 PM, "Jason S"  wrote:

>  Small yet somehow BIG place (for some reason)
>
> On 03/08/14 18:55, Jason S wrote:
>
> Also . .  .  .  .  .  .   .   ..  http://vimeo.com/77822882
>   (from the same place)
>
>
>

RE: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan

[Maurice Patel]

Hi John
Yes - you can basically get back on subscription if your contract has expired 
within the year - either for Softimage or the Suite which would be the case if 
t expired in August. Even if this were not the case, you could still upgrade to 
ECS Premium 2014 to become eligible for the Ultimate Suite but it would be a 
bit more costly to do so.
maurice

Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of John Richard 
Sanchez
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 11:04 AM
To: XSI List to post
Subject: Re: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan

Hi Maurice
Thanks for the new info. My situation is this.

9. I did not renew my Subscription. Can I transition to Maya or 3ds Max?
If you have purchased a new license or upgraded your Softimage within the last 
365 days you can late-
attach Subscription by paying the Late Renewal fee. Once you are current and on 
Subscription you will have access to the transition offerings previously 
described in
question 5
I am own the Maya/ Soft Creation suite. I would like to get ultimate just to 
keep my options open. My question is what does this mean? "you can late-attach 
Subscription by paying the Late Renewal fee" My sub expired in August.
John


On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 7:21 PM, Maurice Patel 
mailto:maurice.pa...@autodesk.com>> wrote:
Hi Mr Hartog,
Yes you are correct our websites have already been updated with the new 
information.
http://static.autodesk.net/content/dam/autodesk/www/products/autodesk-softimage/docs/pdf/softimage_last_release_announcement_faq_update_mar7.pdf

maurice

Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134


-Original Message-
From: 
softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com]
 On Behalf Of Leendert A. Hartog
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 4:58 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan
Hi mr. Patel,
I assume, hopefully correctly, the positive changes you outline here will find 
their way in writing to the official website soon as well.
Could you please confirm this and give an estimate when such "papers"
will be available? Thanks in advance!

--

Leendert A. Hartog - Softimage hobbyist
AKA Hirazi Blue - Administrator  @, NOT the owner of  
si-community.com




--
www.johnrichardsanchez.com
<>

RE: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan

[Maurice Patel]

Hi Ben
The answer is no, you do not need to be on subscription to continue to use 
Softimage. Your licenses are perpetual. You can continue to use them. The issue 
that the forums initially raised, and that we addressed, was about what 
happened if you were on Subscription. Originally after the two year period, if 
you were on subs, you would have been transitioned to a Maya-only license 
losing access to Softimage. We fixed that so that now if you are on subs you 
will still be able to access Softimage similar to the way you can access 
previous versions today. When a license is issued it is yours in perpetuity 
until you replace it with another one (say through an upgrade or subs download) 
and we now fixed that problem
maurice

Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Ben Rogall
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 9:38 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan

Yes, I have exactly the same question (I posted it on si-community yesterday). 
The question is regarding what happens if one transitions and continues a 
subscription to Maya after Feb 2016. If you need to continue accessing your old 
version of Softimage, are you required to continue your subscription to Maya in 
order to maintain the Softimage access the same way subscription is currently 
required to continue to access previous versions. This will have influence over 
whether I begin a Maya subscription.

Thank you,
Ben Rogall

On 3/8/2014 2:58 AM, Leendert A. Hartog wrote:

Hi, mr. Patel,



Thanks for the update, but it raises another question:

(If this is a stupid question: sorry, I'm having a hard time processing all 
this ATM.)



Two quotes...



>From the OP:

"Based on your feedback we will be adding the ability to continue to acces/s 
Softimage indefinitely with your Subscription entitlement even after we stop 
upport on Softimage in April 2016.

3
+7204





>From the FAQ

"If you need to use Softimage after February 1, 2016 you will be able to access 
it through the Subscription center in the same way that Subscription customers 
can access prior versions today."



In the FAQ one element from your OP seems unclear. You clearly speak of 
accessing "Softimage indefinitely", while the FAQ states the usage "in the same 
way that Subscription customers can access prior versions today.".

As I understand prior version rights aren't indefinite.  I believe older 
versions cease to be available after three years even under this program.  
While I assume/hope the condition you've laid out in your OP to be correct, but 
if so the FAQ could use some clarification in this respect.



Greetz

Leendert

--
Leendert A. Hartog - Softimage hobbyist AKA Hirazi Blue - Administrator @, NOT 
the owner of si-community.com

<>

RE: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan

[Maurice Patel]

Hi Leendert

The mechanism is the same. Your comment about three versions back applies to 
what is made available as new releases are issued. No new releases for 
Softimage will be available so the situation is not  really identical and the 
three version back limitation does not apply. Also the three limit back is 
about access to licenses not about existing ones. For example if you are using 
Maya 2009 today (more than 3 versions back) you can still continue to use it 
although you would only access 2011, 2012, 2013 from the Subs center.

Maurice

Maurice Patel
Autodesk : Tél:  514 954-7134

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com 
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Leendert A. Hartog
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 3:58 AM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Update to the Softtimage Transition Plan


Hi, mr. Patel,



Thanks for the update, but it raises another question:

(If this is a stupid question: sorry, I'm having a hard time processing all 
this ATM.)



Two quotes...



>From the OP:

"Based on your feedback we will be adding the ability to continue to access 
Softimage indefinitely with your Subscription entitlement even after we stop 
support on Softimage in April 2016."



>From the FAQ

"If you need to use Softimage after February 1, 2016 you will be able to access 
it through the Subscription center in the same way that Subscription customers 
can access prior versions today."



In the FAQ one element from your OP seems unclear. You clearly speak of 
accessing "Softimage indefinitely", while the FAQ states the usage "in the same 
way that Subscription customers can access prior versions today.".

As I understand prior version rights aren't indefinite.  I believe older 
versions cease to be available after three years even under this program.  
While I assume/hope the condition you've laid out in your OP to be correct, but 
if so the FAQ could use some clarification in this respect.



Greetz

Leendert

--
Leendert A. Hartog - Softimage hobbyist AKA Hirazi Blue - Administrator @, NOT 
the owner of si-community.com
<>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Jonah Friedman]

You manually update them by hitting sort or sort all. Also have a check
function that checks to see if anything is unsorted and report what.

This workflow only works because passes and partitions are so solid and
useful, not to mention groups. Maya has no foundation to build this sort of
thing on, only sets which are near useless.
 On Mar 8, 2014 5:39 PM, "Andy Goehler" 
wrote:

> Sounds great. How does the "Sort Controller" update the pass? By callback
> upon switching to that pass or manually?
>
> Andy
>
> On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:35, Jonah Friedman  wrote:
>
> We have a rule based way of sorting partitions called the "Sort
> Controller", originally conceived by Andy Jones. It's been extremely
> powerful.
>
> You write your passes in a simple markup language in a PPG on the pass,
> like this. Copy pasting from a real production scene I have open right now-
>
> Background_Objects_Partition = *
> characters = sg_character
> set = sg_set
> lighting_geo = sg_lighting_geo
>
> l: Background_Lights_Partition = *
> l: env = sg_lEnv
> l: key = sg_lKey
> l: rim = sg_lRim
>
>
> What that does is puts objects in a group called "sg_character" into a
> partition called "characters". So each pass has a sort controller on it,
> and the scene can stay sorted by managing the sort groups, called SG by
> convention.
>
> It's been extremely good to us. Other than that, passes and partitions do
> their work exactly the way soft is supposed to, except that the partitions
> are sorted by the Sort Controller.
>
> Even our least technical lighters got used to it no problem, and it's
> universally loved.
>
>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Cristobal Infante]

I made a script which I should really share called "assign partition" which
works exactly like "Assign material".

New object in the scene that need partitioning, just selecting any object
that's already in the correct partition.


On 8 March 2014 22:30, Andy Goehler  wrote:

> Thank you for saying that Eric. While Softs Passes/Partitions are still
> great and better than others out there, I feel the same way. Having to add
> yet another object to a partition in x amount of passes is something I've
> become to hate. Referencing of partitions/groups in passes would help,
> expression/rule based assignment, or yet a node based approach to passes.
> Wait what? :-)
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:21, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>
> I think we all need to be honest, there were concepts that were great
> about passes / partitions but there were some things that needed fixing
> (still do). We need something that isn't exactly like the pass / partition
> system. We need something better.
>
>
>

Re: Webinars and training

[Jason S]

Small yet somehow BIG place (for some reason)

On 03/08/14 18:55, Jason S wrote:

Also . .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .. http://vimeo.com/77822882
  (from the same place)

Re: Softimage 2015 new feature pdf

[Mario Reitbauer]

still there is no drag & drop of nodes on connections.

Thats just such a standart and it should be there, but hey in Houdini it is
so all is good :D


2014-03-09 0:41 GMT+01:00 gareth bell :

> Woohoo!!! Nuke-style ICE and render-tree tab function. I've been genuinely
> looking forward to this for ages.
>
> Shame I'll only get to use it for a couple of years at the most :(
>
>
> > Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 15:21:21 -0500
> > Subject: Re: Softimage 2015 new feature pdf
> > From: luceri...@gmail.com
> > To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
>
> >
> > You can also get that document here:
> >
> http://area.autodesk.com/userdata/products/What's_New_in_Autodesk_Softimage_2015_latest.pdf
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Tim Crowson
> >  wrote:
> > > Looks like the attachment was the wrong file, maybe? I just see a 600k
> .dat
> > > file...
> > > -Tim
> > >
> > >
> > > On 3/8/2014 2:08 PM, Chris Vienneau wrote:
> > >
> > > I had documentation get me this in advance so you can see what will be
> in
> > > the 2015 release for your discussions. This is not meant to be fuel on
> the
> > > fire but information to help out your planning.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > cv/
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > >
> > >
>

Re: Webinars and training

[Jason S]

Also . .  .  .  .  .  .   .   .. http://vimeo.com/77822882
  (from the same place)

On 03/08/14 18:19, Maurício PC wrote:

Hey Chris ...

Just another beautiful work from a SOFT - IMAGE studio ... S O F T I M 
A G E. SOFTIMAGE. SoFtImAgE. softimage. sOfTiMaGe.


https://vimeo.com/88190913

Yeah ... I can't believe you guys think you are doing the correct thing.

Oh well ...


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Doeke Wartena > wrote:


Could you also roll out transition training to know the equivalent
function in Houdini?


2014-03-08 Chris Vienneau mailto:chris.vienn...@autodesk.com>>:

Hi Everyone,



I am hoping to have the first webinar for soft users to show
them the roadmap within a week or two so I will get back to
everyone who wrote me privately or publicly with the dates. We
will go through the upcoming release and the roadmap. We have
been on the road with many soft users in the last two months
so we hope you will see many things in there from the threads
that are being written here. Again for those of you not
interested we understand. We are also going to start to roll
out transition training aimed at experienced users who just
want to know the equivalent function in Maya. Every month
starting in April we will have an ask the expert webinar like
this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Gz54a6GTg ) where you
can in advance give us specific topics you want us to cover
with a live chat.



cv/





--
gonebadfx.com 
- your source for bad fx

Re: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add your mail here

[Michael Clarke]

Evaluating MODO.

Will use Soft til I can't, 
Maya if I must, 
and MODO as needed (if it works out).

m...@bluecstudios.com

On Mar 8, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Jason S  wrote:

> Agree that that should be part of the final requests...  apart from the new 
> Softimaya part.
> 
> At least existing clients can.
> 
> On 03/08/14 18:13, Jordi Bares wrote:
>> 
>> The problem is buying licenses..
>> 
>> Jordi Bares
>> jordiba...@gmail.com
>> 
>> On 8 Mar 2014, at 20:55, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:
>> 
>>> Well there is always the option to hire some Softimage freelancers to add 
>>> more seats to your studio in case you need them.
>>> 
>>> Fortunatley we are at a stage now, that archives can be easily move from 
>>> any part of the world.
>>> 
>>> You can easily integrate this kind of workflow and additional Softimage 
>>> seats to your pipeline, without actually having to buy more licenses.
>>> 
>>> Just a thought.
>>> 
>>> Cheers!
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 2014-03-08 14:50 GMT-06:00 Jordi Bares :
>>> At realise we were about to embark on a project and were contemplating the 
>>> idea of getting a couple of Softimage licenses, in parallel we are testing 
>>> Modo too to complement the modelling side but now seems the Softimage route 
>>> is closed so we will either wait to see what Side Effects do as a result of 
>>> the Softimage fiasco or buy modo and invest  on it.
>>> 
>>> seems likely we will go Modo
>>> 
>>> Jordi Bares
>>> jordiba...@gmail.com
>>> 
>>> On 8 Mar 2014, at 20:22, David Rivera  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Hi, I was really touched by some of the in-depth opinions about leaving 
 SI. TD´s perspective, and other
 users who have dedicated their lives (literally) to build a rock-solid 
 pipeline for studios all around the world
 using softimage, have really made me think a lot into consideration.
 
 So, to cut a long story short, I´d like to know if there´s a thread in the 
 list that´s already being aligned into
 the Softimage/MODO transition? If not, I´d like to start it off with this 
 post.
 
 I´m going into MODO and here´s my email:
 
 david_rivera...@yahoo.com
 
 Thanks.
  
 David Rivera
 3D Compositor/Animator
 LinkedIN
 Behance
 VFX Reel
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 


Michael Clarke Design
Blue C Studios
713-927-9835

RE: Softimage 2015 new feature pdf

[gareth bell]

Woohoo!!! Nuke-style ICE and render-tree tab function. I've been genuinely 
looking forward to this for ages. 

Shame I'll only get to use it for a couple of years at the most :(

> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 15:21:21 -0500
> Subject: Re: Softimage 2015 new feature pdf
> From: luceri...@gmail.com
> To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> 
> You can also get that document here:
> http://area.autodesk.com/userdata/products/What's_New_in_Autodesk_Softimage_2015_latest.pdf
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:20 PM, Tim Crowson
>  wrote:
> > Looks like the attachment was the wrong file, maybe? I just see a 600k .dat
> > file...
> > -Tim
> >
> >
> > On 3/8/2014 2:08 PM, Chris Vienneau wrote:
> >
> > I had documentation get me this in advance so you can see what will be in
> > the 2015 release for your discussions. This is not meant to be fuel on the
> > fire but information to help out your planning.
> >
> >
> >
> > cv/
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> >
  

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Mirko Jankovic]

Looks like MRay burried its hands deep in all programs and don;t wanna let
go... honestly... it would be waaay better fif they would arive wihtouth
any render engine at all, ofc cut base price of 3d software as well and
then you have bduget to choose render engine. Or even better
Buy app this or that and pick render engine to choose
app - $ xxx
render engine 1 - $xx

render engine n -$xx

and voala.
those who don;t even need render engine at all can get it for better
price...

but then they wanna sell it more expensive so you WILL pay for MRay even if
you are nevver gonna use it :)


On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 12:13 AM, Andy Jones  wrote:

> We should really just release ours.  We'd just have to get it cleared with
> our CTO.  But since I built the original version back in the mid 2000s when
> I was at PLF, it's probably something we can make happen pretty easily. I
> think we'll also likely want it out there as reference material for a
> Fabric based scene assembler.
>
> We also have an event-based script property thing we made recently, which
> people might find cool.  Not earthshattering, but kinda fun, and would let
> you do the sorting automatically if you want.
>
> Re: contribution maps, let's keep in mind that the special sauce that
> makes that work in Maya is also a big reason Mental Ray became unusable in
> Maya. They put so much garbage in the MR version of the Maya shading engine
> that scenes would sometimes render faster in Soft by an order of magnitude.
>  I spent some time at one point trying to get rid of it, but it was so
> complicated I eventually realized that even if I found a solution there was
> no way I could enforce it.  I even looked into stripping it via a geometry
> shader at one point.  I think they designed contribution maps without
> raytracing in mind or something.  It's not just contribution maps, but the
> whole "magic maya BS" that they tried to cram in there.  MayaGlow and
> whatnot.
>
> Also, as mentioned, they're not the same thing as partitions anyway.
>
> I could say people should save some time and not bother learning Maya, but
> the truth is, it's really valuable for learning what not to do in 3D
> software.  Kind of like how it's important to study history so as not to
> repeat it.
>
>
> On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Andy Goehler 
> wrote:
>
>> On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:47, Jonah Friedman  wrote:
>>
>>  You manually update them by hitting sort or sort all. Also have a check
>> function that checks to see if anything is unsorted and report what.
>>
>> Sounds like something I'll start implementing on Monday.
>>
>> Thanks for the inspiration.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>

Re: Webinars and training

[Maurício PC]

Hey Chris ...

Just another beautiful work from a SOFT - IMAGE studio ... S O F T I M A G
E. SOFTIMAGE. SoFtImAgE. softimage. sOfTiMaGe.

https://vimeo.com/88190913

Yeah ... I can't believe you guys think you are doing the correct thing.

Oh well ...


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 12:33 PM, Doeke Wartena  wrote:

> Could you also roll out transition training to know the equivalent
> function in Houdini?
>
>
> 2014-03-08 Chris Vienneau :
>
> Hi Everyone,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am hoping to have the first webinar for soft users to show them the
>> roadmap within a week or two so I will get back to everyone who wrote me
>> privately or publicly with the dates. We will go through the upcoming
>> release and the roadmap. We have been on the road with many soft users in
>> the last two months so we hope you will see many things in there from the
>> threads that are being written here. Again for those of you not interested
>> we understand. We are also going to start to roll out transition training
>> aimed at experienced users who just want to know the equivalent function in
>> Maya. Every month starting in April we will have an ask the expert webinar
>> like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0Gz54a6GTg ) where you can in
>> advance give us specific topics you want us to cover with a live chat.
>>
>>
>>
>> cv/
>>
>
>


-- 
gonebadfx.com
- your source for bad fx

Re: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add your mail here

[Jason S]

Agree that that should be part of the final requests...  apart from the 
new Softimaya part.


At least existing clients can.

On 03/08/14 18:13, Jordi Bares wrote:

The problem is buying licenses..

Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com 

On 8 Mar 2014, at 20:55, Emilio Hernandez > wrote:


Well there is always the option to hire some Softimage freelancers to 
add more seats to your studio in case you need them.


Fortunatley we are at a stage now, that archives can be easily move 
from any part of the world.


You can easily integrate this kind of workflow and additional 
Softimage seats to your pipeline, without actually having to buy more 
licenses.


Just a thought.

Cheers!

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-08 14:50 GMT-06:00 Jordi Bares >:


At realise we were about to embark on a project and were
contemplating the idea of getting a couple of Softimage licenses,
in parallel we are testing Modo too to complement the modelling
side but now seems the Softimage route is closed so we will
either wait to see what Side Effects do as a result of the
Softimage fiasco or buy modo and invest  on it.

seems likely we will go Modo

Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com 

On 8 Mar 2014, at 20:22, David Rivera
mailto:activemotionpictu...@yahoo.com>> wrote:


Hi, I was really touched by some of the in-depth opinions about
leaving SI. TD´s perspective, and other
users who have dedicated their lives (literally) to build a
rock-solid pipeline for studios all around the world
using softimage, have really made me think a lot into consideration.

So, to cut a long story short, I´d like to know if there´s a
thread in the list that´s already being aligned into
the Softimage/MODO transition? If not, I´d like to start it off
with this post.

I´m going into MODO and here´s my email:

david_rivera...@yahoo.com 

Thanks.
*David Rivera*
/3D Compositor/Animator/
LinkedIN 
Behance 
VFX Reel 

Re: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add your mail here

[Jordi Bares]

The problem is buying licenses..

Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com

On 8 Mar 2014, at 20:55, Emilio Hernandez  wrote:

> Well there is always the option to hire some Softimage freelancers to add 
> more seats to your studio in case you need them.
> 
> Fortunatley we are at a stage now, that archives can be easily move from any 
> part of the world.
> 
> You can easily integrate this kind of workflow and additional Softimage seats 
> to your pipeline, without actually having to buy more licenses.
> 
> Just a thought.
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
> 
> 
> 2014-03-08 14:50 GMT-06:00 Jordi Bares :
> At realise we were about to embark on a project and were contemplating the 
> idea of getting a couple of Softimage licenses, in parallel we are testing 
> Modo too to complement the modelling side but now seems the Softimage route 
> is closed so we will either wait to see what Side Effects do as a result of 
> the Softimage fiasco or buy modo and invest  on it.
> 
> seems likely we will go Modo
> 
> Jordi Bares
> jordiba...@gmail.com
> 
> On 8 Mar 2014, at 20:22, David Rivera  wrote:
> 
>> Hi, I was really touched by some of the in-depth opinions about leaving SI. 
>> TD´s perspective, and other
>> users who have dedicated their lives (literally) to build a rock-solid 
>> pipeline for studios all around the world
>> using softimage, have really made me think a lot into consideration.
>> 
>> So, to cut a long story short, I´d like to know if there´s a thread in the 
>> list that´s already being aligned into
>> the Softimage/MODO transition? If not, I´d like to start it off with this 
>> post.
>> 
>> I´m going into MODO and here´s my email:
>> 
>> david_rivera...@yahoo.com
>> 
>> Thanks.
>>  
>> David Rivera
>> 3D Compositor/Animator
>> LinkedIN
>> Behance
>> VFX Reel
> 
> 

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Andy Jones]

We should really just release ours.  We'd just have to get it cleared with
our CTO.  But since I built the original version back in the mid 2000s when
I was at PLF, it's probably something we can make happen pretty easily. I
think we'll also likely want it out there as reference material for a
Fabric based scene assembler.

We also have an event-based script property thing we made recently, which
people might find cool.  Not earthshattering, but kinda fun, and would let
you do the sorting automatically if you want.

Re: contribution maps, let's keep in mind that the special sauce that makes
that work in Maya is also a big reason Mental Ray became unusable in Maya.
They put so much garbage in the MR version of the Maya shading engine that
scenes would sometimes render faster in Soft by an order of magnitude.  I
spent some time at one point trying to get rid of it, but it was so
complicated I eventually realized that even if I found a solution there was
no way I could enforce it.  I even looked into stripping it via a geometry
shader at one point.  I think they designed contribution maps without
raytracing in mind or something.  It's not just contribution maps, but the
whole "magic maya BS" that they tried to cram in there.  MayaGlow and
whatnot.

Also, as mentioned, they're not the same thing as partitions anyway.

I could say people should save some time and not bother learning Maya, but
the truth is, it's really valuable for learning what not to do in 3D
software.  Kind of like how it's important to study history so as not to
repeat it.

On Saturday, March 8, 2014, Andy Goehler 
wrote:

> On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:47, Jonah Friedman 
> >
> wrote:
>
> You manually update them by hitting sort or sort all. Also have a check
> function that checks to see if anything is unsorted and report what.
>
> Sounds like something I'll start implementing on Monday.
>
> Thanks for the inspiration.
>
> Andy
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Daniel Kim]

And another ridiculous thing is, Maya added 'Modeling Took Kit'.
It is like a simplified way to model, but it's working like a module. If
someone else have done modeling in Maya, it is too slow process. There are
no simple and easy ways to change manipulate to local, global, normal mode
like SI. Maya 2014 has it now, but it's added as a module...
That's sick. It's containing like a plugin... I see Maya looks like somehow
3DMax...


---
Daniel Kim
Animation Director & Professional 3D Generalist
http://www.danielkim3d.com
---




On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Daniel Kim  wrote:

> Maya has pass render and partition of course, but because of its complex
> system, it's kinda useless. It's not easy like Softimage. And you guys will
> find that announcement of Subdivision is not on menu anymore on Maya 2014.
> So, basically, you have to use that 15 years old method 'Smooth' when you
> render like subdivision.
>
>
> ---
> Daniel Kim
> Animation Director & Professional 3D Generalist
> http://www.danielkim3d.com
> ---
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Jonah Friedman  wrote:
>
>> You manually update them by hitting sort or sort all. Also have a check
>> function that checks to see if anything is unsorted and report what.
>>
>> This workflow only works because passes and partitions are so solid and
>> useful, not to mention groups. Maya has no foundation to build this sort of
>> thing on, only sets which are near useless.
>>  On Mar 8, 2014 5:39 PM, "Andy Goehler" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds great. How does the "Sort Controller" update the pass? By
>>> callback upon switching to that pass or manually?
>>>
>>> Andy
>>>
>>> On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:35, Jonah Friedman  wrote:
>>>
>>> We have a rule based way of sorting partitions called the "Sort
>>> Controller", originally conceived by Andy Jones. It's been extremely
>>> powerful.
>>>
>>> You write your passes in a simple markup language in a PPG on the pass,
>>> like this. Copy pasting from a real production scene I have open right now-
>>>
>>> Background_Objects_Partition = *
>>> characters = sg_character
>>> set = sg_set
>>> lighting_geo = sg_lighting_geo
>>>
>>> l: Background_Lights_Partition = *
>>> l: env = sg_lEnv
>>> l: key = sg_lKey
>>> l: rim = sg_lRim
>>>
>>>
>>> What that does is puts objects in a group called "sg_character" into a
>>> partition called "characters". So each pass has a sort controller on it,
>>> and the scene can stay sorted by managing the sort groups, called SG by
>>> convention.
>>>
>>> It's been extremely good to us. Other than that, passes and partitions
>>> do their work exactly the way soft is supposed to, except that the
>>> partitions are sorted by the Sort Controller.
>>>
>>> Even our least technical lighters got used to it no problem, and it's
>>> universally loved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Jonah Friedman]

Oh no, I would never accuse you being stark raving mad, sorry it came off
that way.

I was more concerned the Maya people reading this thread would read your
post like that. :)


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Eric Thivierge  wrote:

>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Jonah Friedman  wrote:
>
>> Agreed, but that better thing is not what we find in Maya render layers.
>> Render layers are clearly worse. I have no faith in AD's judgement about
>> what is better though.
>
>
> I hope you didn't take it as me being pro-maya render layers. They suck,
> no way around it.
>
>
> 
> Eric Thivierge
> http://www.ethivierge.com
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Raffaele Fragapane]

What? Eric, don't lie to people!
We had to listen to you saying how you wished Soft's passes were more like
Maya Render Layers for all your time here in AL, to the point our ears were
bleeding!


On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Eric Thivierge wrote:

>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Jonah Friedman  wrote:
>
>> Agreed, but that better thing is not what we find in Maya render layers.
>> Render layers are clearly worse. I have no faith in AD's judgement about
>> what is better though.
>
>
> I hope you didn't take it as me being pro-maya render layers. They suck,
> no way around it.
>
>
> 
> Eric Thivierge
> http://www.ethivierge.com
>



-- 
Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it
and let them flee like the dogs they are!

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Jonah Friedman]

Agreed, but that better thing is not what we find in Maya render layers.
Render layers are clearly worse. I have no faith in AD's judgement about
what is better though.


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:21 PM, Eric Thivierge  wrote:

>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Andy Goehler  > wrote:
>
>> I can't count the many many times overrides have cost me overtime and
>> rerendering because of not working properly.
>
>
> I think we all need to be honest, there were concepts that were great
> about passes / partitions but there were some things that needed fixing
> (still do). We need something that isn't exactly like the pass / partition
> system. We need something better.
>
>
> 
> Eric Thivierge
> http://www.ethivierge.com
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Eric Thivierge]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Andy Goehler
wrote:

> I can't count the many many times overrides have cost me overtime and
> rerendering because of not working properly.


I think we all need to be honest, there were concepts that were great about
passes / partitions but there were some things that needed fixing (still
do). We need something that isn't exactly like the pass / partition system.
We need something better.


Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Eric Thivierge]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:29 PM, Jonah Friedman  wrote:

> Agreed, but that better thing is not what we find in Maya render layers.
> Render layers are clearly worse. I have no faith in AD's judgement about
> what is better though.


I hope you didn't take it as me being pro-maya render layers. They suck, no
way around it.


Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Andy Goehler]

On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:47, Jonah Friedman  wrote:
> You manually update them by hitting sort or sort all. Also have a check 
> function that checks to see if anything is unsorted and report what.
> 
Sounds like something I’ll start implementing on Monday.

Thanks for the inspiration.

Andy

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Daniel Kim]

Maya has pass render and partition of course, but because of its complex
system, it's kinda useless. It's not easy like Softimage. And you guys will
find that announcement of Subdivision is not on menu anymore on Maya 2014.
So, basically, you have to use that 15 years old method 'Smooth' when you
render like subdivision.


---
Daniel Kim
Animation Director & Professional 3D Generalist
http://www.danielkim3d.com
---




On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Jonah Friedman  wrote:

> You manually update them by hitting sort or sort all. Also have a check
> function that checks to see if anything is unsorted and report what.
>
> This workflow only works because passes and partitions are so solid and
> useful, not to mention groups. Maya has no foundation to build this sort of
> thing on, only sets which are near useless.
>  On Mar 8, 2014 5:39 PM, "Andy Goehler" 
> wrote:
>
>> Sounds great. How does the "Sort Controller" update the pass? By callback
>> upon switching to that pass or manually?
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:35, Jonah Friedman  wrote:
>>
>> We have a rule based way of sorting partitions called the "Sort
>> Controller", originally conceived by Andy Jones. It's been extremely
>> powerful.
>>
>> You write your passes in a simple markup language in a PPG on the pass,
>> like this. Copy pasting from a real production scene I have open right now-
>>
>> Background_Objects_Partition = *
>> characters = sg_character
>> set = sg_set
>> lighting_geo = sg_lighting_geo
>>
>> l: Background_Lights_Partition = *
>> l: env = sg_lEnv
>> l: key = sg_lKey
>> l: rim = sg_lRim
>>
>>
>> What that does is puts objects in a group called "sg_character" into a
>> partition called "characters". So each pass has a sort controller on it,
>> and the scene can stay sorted by managing the sort groups, called SG by
>> convention.
>>
>> It's been extremely good to us. Other than that, passes and partitions do
>> their work exactly the way soft is supposed to, except that the partitions
>> are sorted by the Sort Controller.
>>
>> Even our least technical lighters got used to it no problem, and it's
>> universally loved.
>>
>>
>>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Andy Goehler]

That reminds me, I’ve written a script with that exact same functionality. Most 
have got lost somewhere.

On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:35, Cristobal Infante  wrote:

> I made a script which I should really share called "assign partition" which 
> works exactly like "Assign material".

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Emilio Hernandez]

Yes we need something better.  And Maya is not better.

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Andy Goehler]

Sounds great. How does the “Sort Controller” update the pass? By callback upon 
switching to that pass or manually?

Andy

On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:35, Jonah Friedman  wrote:

> We have a rule based way of sorting partitions called the "Sort Controller", 
> originally conceived by Andy Jones. It's been extremely powerful.
> 
> You write your passes in a simple markup language in a PPG on the pass, like 
> this. Copy pasting from a real production scene I have open right now-
> 
> Background_Objects_Partition = *
> characters = sg_character
> set = sg_set
> lighting_geo = sg_lighting_geo
> 
> l: Background_Lights_Partition = *
> l: env = sg_lEnv
> l: key = sg_lKey
> l: rim = sg_lRim
> 
> 
> What that does is puts objects in a group called "sg_character" into a 
> partition called "characters". So each pass has a sort controller on it, and 
> the scene can stay sorted by managing the sort groups, called SG by 
> convention. 
> 
> It's been extremely good to us. Other than that, passes and partitions do 
> their work exactly the way soft is supposed to, except that the partitions 
> are sorted by the Sort Controller. 
> 
> Even our least technical lighters got used to it no problem, and it's 
> universally loved. 

Re[2]: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add your mail here

[Eugen Sares]

Looking into it as well now...
m...@eugensares.at



-- Originalnachricht --
Von: "Angus Davidson" 
An: "softimage@listproc.autodesk.com" 
Gesendet: 08.03.2014 22:33:12
Betreff: RE: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add
your mail here


We have been testing it since November of last year and on a technical
level I am happy to recommend it for our courses as it does what we
need it to do.

However we have a very small Modo community in South Africa so we would
need to weigh that against whether it would give us  enough students or
whether we would need to go Maya for that.



From: Nasser Al-Ostath [mushin@gmail.com]
Sent: 08 March 2014 10:49 PM
To: David Rivera
Cc:softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add
your mail here

mushin@gmail.com

Ill give it a try ... although im sad to leave si for good ... the
market in my country is focused on max or maya but I'd love to givr
modo a serious try

On Mar 8, 2014 11:23 PM, "David Rivera"
 wrote:

Hi, I was really touched by some of the in-depth opinions about
leaving SI. TD´s perspective, and other
users who have dedicated their lives (literally) to build a rock-solid
pipeline for studios all around the world
using softimage, have really made me think a lot into consideration.

So, to cut a long story short, I´d like to know if there´s a thread in
the list that´s already being aligned into
the Softimage/MODO transition? If not, I´d like to start it off with
this post.

I´m going into MODO and here´s my email:

david_rivera...@yahoo.com

Thanks.

David Rivera
3D Compositor/Animator
LinkedIN
Behance
VFX Reel

This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is
confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please
notify us immediately and destroy the original message. You may not
copy or disseminate this communication without the permission of the
University. Only authorised signatories are competent to enter into
agreements on behalf of the University and recipients are thus advised
that the content of this message may not be legally binding on the
University and may contain the personal views and opinions of the
author, which are not necessarily the views and opinions of The
University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements between
the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless
the University agrees in writing to the contrary.


---
Diese E-Mail ist frei von Viren und Malware, denn der avast! Antivirus Schutz 
ist aktiv.
http://www.avast.com

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Jonah Friedman]

We have a rule based way of sorting partitions called the "Sort
Controller", originally conceived by Andy Jones. It's been extremely
powerful.

You write your passes in a simple markup language in a PPG on the pass,
like this. Copy pasting from a real production scene I have open right now-

Background_Objects_Partition = *
characters = sg_character
set = sg_set
lighting_geo = sg_lighting_geo

l: Background_Lights_Partition = *
l: env = sg_lEnv
l: key = sg_lKey
l: rim = sg_lRim


What that does is puts objects in a group called "sg_character" into a
partition called "characters". So each pass has a sort controller on it,
and the scene can stay sorted by managing the sort groups, called SG by
convention.

It's been extremely good to us. Other than that, passes and partitions do
their work exactly the way soft is supposed to, except that the partitions
are sorted by the Sort Controller.

Even our least technical lighters got used to it no problem, and it's
universally loved.




On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Andy Goehler
wrote:

> Thank you for saying that Eric. While Softs Passes/Partitions are still
> great and better than others out there, I feel the same way. Having to add
> yet another object to a partition in x amount of passes is something I've
> become to hate. Referencing of partitions/groups in passes would help,
> expression/rule based assignment, or yet a node based approach to passes.
> Wait what? :-)
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:21, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>
> I think we all need to be honest, there were concepts that were great
> about passes / partitions but there were some things that needed fixing
> (still do). We need something that isn't exactly like the pass / partition
> system. We need something better.
>
>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Emilio Hernandez]

We need a better Softimaya or what ever you want to call it.  But
definitively not Maya.

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-08 16:30 GMT-06:00 Andy Goehler :

> Thank you for saying that Eric. While Softs Passes/Partitions are still
> great and better than others out there, I feel the same way. Having to add
> yet another object to a partition in x amount of passes is something I've
> become to hate. Referencing of partitions/groups in passes would help,
> expression/rule based assignment, or yet a node based approach to passes.
> Wait what? :-)
>
> Andy
>
>
>
> On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:21, Eric Thivierge  wrote:
>
> I think we all need to be honest, there were concepts that were great
> about passes / partitions but there were some things that needed fixing
> (still do). We need something that isn't exactly like the pass / partition
> system. We need something better.
>
>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Andy Goehler]

Thank you for saying that Eric. While Softs Passes/Partitions are still great 
and better than others out there, I feel the same way. Having to add yet 
another object to a partition in x amount of passes is something I’ve become to 
hate. Referencing of partitions/groups in passes would help, expression/rule 
based assignment, or yet a node based approach to passes. Wait what? :-)

Andy


On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:21, Eric Thivierge  wrote:

> I think we all need to be honest, there were concepts that were great about 
> passes / partitions but there were some things that needed fixing (still do). 
> We need something that isn't exactly like the pass / partition system. We 
> need something better.

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Tim Crowson]

Not if you can script, I'm told.
-Tim

On 3/8/2014 4:20 PM, Cristobal Infante wrote:

are trimmed emails a Maya problem as well? ;)


On 8 March 2014 22:14, Tim Crowson > wrote:


See the problem with trimmed emails is that you can't really tell
what someone is responding to.  I'm definitely in favor of at
least quoting the statements to which you're responding.

:-D




On 3/8/2014 4:02 PM, Greg Punchatz wrote:

Not even close that's all pre canned stuff from what I have
seen... nothing like the power of passes in xsi.. I can override
ANYTHING in soft... a material to an objects position in space..
I have had overides that change characters into entire new ones
with out referring to a single new piece of geo... I simply have
the pass drive shapes and map choices...the list goes on.. and on
and on




-- 






--
Signature

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Cristobal Infante]

are trimmed emails a Maya problem as well? ;)


On 8 March 2014 22:14, Tim Crowson  wrote:

>  See the problem with trimmed emails is that you can't really tell what
> someone is responding to.  I'm definitely in favor of at least quoting the
> statements to which you're responding.
>
> :-D
>
>
>
>
> On 3/8/2014 4:02 PM, Greg Punchatz wrote:
>
> Not even close that's all pre canned stuff from what I have seen...
> nothing like the power of passes in xsi.. I can override ANYTHING in
> soft... a material to an objects position in space.. I have had overides
> that change characters into entire new ones with out referring to a single
> new piece of geo... I simply have the pass drive shapes and map
> choices...the list goes on.. and on and on
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Tim Crowson]

See the problem with trimmed emails is that you can't really tell what 
someone is responding to.  I'm definitely in favor of at least quoting 
the statements to which you're responding.


:-D



On 3/8/2014 4:02 PM, Greg Punchatz wrote:
Not even close that's all pre canned stuff from what I have 
seen... nothing like the power of passes in xsi.. I can override 
ANYTHING in soft... a material to an objects position in space.. I 
have had overides that change characters into entire new ones with out 
referring to a single new piece of geo... I simply have the pass drive 
shapes and map choices...the list goes on.. and on and on





--
Signature

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Andy Goehler]

I can’t count the many many times overrides have cost me overtime and 
rerendering because of not working properly.

Andy

On Mar 08, 2014, at 23:02, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

> I can override ANYTHING in soft... a material to an objects position in 
> space..

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Cristobal Infante]

shit


On 8 March 2014 22:02, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

> Not even close that's all pre canned stuff from what I have seen...
> nothing like the power of passes in xsi.. I can override ANYTHING in
> soft... a material to an objects position in space.. I have had overides
> that change characters into entire new ones with out referring to a single
> new piece of geo... I simply have the pass drive shapes and map
> choices...the list goes on.. and on and on
>
>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Greg Punchatz]

Not even close that's all pre canned stuff from what I have seen...
nothing like the power of passes in xsi.. I can override ANYTHING in
soft... a material to an objects position in space.. I have had overides
that change characters into entire new ones with out referring to a single
new piece of geo... I simply have the pass drive shapes and map
choices...the list goes on.. and on and on

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

A good friend of mine is working at Mac Guff on Maya (despicable me), he
was a very good xsi guy, a talented modeler, a little bit technical, and
extremly organised.
He's been on Maya since 3 years now and is supervising the modeling team.
I also worked on Maya for a few years, and still do it times to time. I
even was the CG sup for an animated movie all done in Maya, but I'm trying
to stay on Softimage as much as I can.
All I can say is we both strongly agree that working with Maya is huge PITA
when you're used to the smooth Softimage workflow, and it is definitly
right to say that it's taking 1.5 to 2 more time to do the same task in
Maya than in Soft.
The VFX industry is not an easy one for both big and small studios.
I can't imagine how hard it's going to be for Softimage places and
specially the small one to do the transition...
Le 8 mars 2014 22:30, "Eric Thivierge"  a écrit :


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote:

> You can't compare maya and soft reder pass system, maya's one don't have
> the partitions and override propagation system, which make almost useless.


Exactly correct. Maya doesn't really look like a solution for lighting /
rendering unless they scrap their system and implement something more
modern.



Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Jason S]

Lol *:* )

On 03/08/14 16:17, Greg Punchatz wrote:
I have heard some crap about maya that blows my mind but I am 
pretty sure you are missing something.. otherwise there would be Maya 
users jumping off bridges everywhere

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Jason S]

Has native (and ~2x faster) sub-d's

On 03/08/14 16:41, Luc-Eric Rousseau wrote:

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Daniel Kim  wrote:
   

Too much things Maya is missing actually.

GATOR, ICE, Gear, Unfold, Pass render and so many.
And, one of most important thing is, there is no Subdivision modeling in
Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use Smooth to render...
how ridiculous software is that...
 

It's Maya's "hierarchical" subdivision surfaces that's been removed,
and Softimage does not have that either.
   

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Cristobal Infante]

Sorry for my complete ignorance in regards to Maya, but arent contributions
the same as partitions?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBc88MdDaQA#t=354




On 8 March 2014 21:41, Luc-Eric Rousseau  wrote:

> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Daniel Kim  wrote:
> > Too much things Maya is missing actually.
> >
> > GATOR, ICE, Gear, Unfold, Pass render and so many.
> > And, one of most important thing is, there is no Subdivision modeling in
> > Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use Smooth to
> render...
> > how ridiculous software is that...
>
> It's Maya's "hierarchical" subdivision surfaces that's been removed,
> and Softimage does not have that either.
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Greg Punchatz]

It really is the dark ages... I have thought for some time AD should have
used just the pass system alone as a reason for big studios to adopt
soft...The only thing close is Katana but thats a whole different can
of worms... it would be so much easier to market soft as the scene
assembler of the lot to the big boys... FX and Rendering in Soft is so far
ahead of anything in the AD toolbox as of this point, but I bet the person
who makes the decisions at AD does not comprehend how much better.

The problem is there is not anyone who understands that there was/is a way
out of this mess just a tad of vision and action is all it takes.

AD has some of the best tech in the world,but  they are like Xerox , they
don't see the potential in gui interfaces and mice.

"you give them eyes, yet they can not see"

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Luc-Eric Rousseau]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:11 PM, Daniel Kim  wrote:
> Too much things Maya is missing actually.
>
> GATOR, ICE, Gear, Unfold, Pass render and so many.
> And, one of most important thing is, there is no Subdivision modeling in
> Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use Smooth to render...
> how ridiculous software is that...

It's Maya's "hierarchical" subdivision surfaces that's been removed,
and Softimage does not have that either.

Re: URGENT: Consolidation of Questions

[Cristobal Infante]

Can't we use the already setup uservoice?

https://softimage.uservoice.com/

maybe using some brackets before like [LIST] or something


On 8 March 2014 21:21, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

> Mario... Change has already happened... there is already talk from AD
> about further discussions going on internally.
>
> I am asking for the same modest support we have had under AD...plus just a
> bit of marketing..
>
>
>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

For now it's just an opengl shader plugin for realtime viewing. If your
renderer is also suporting it, then it's just interpreted like that.
Le 8 mars 2014 22:27, "Eric Thivierge"  a écrit :

> How does the OpenSubDiv fit in there then?
>
> 
> Eric Thivierge
> http://www.ethivierge.com
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:24 PM, David Gallagher <
> davegsoftimagel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Sadly true. And it causes endless problems with clusters and materials.
>>
>> However, if you use other renderers (not Maya renderer) you don't have to
>> subdivide polys/smooth though. You just use the smooth "preview" (3 button)
>> for viewport purposes.
>>
>> There are so many things that are absurdly substandard  compared with
>> Softimage.
>>
>> Their subD modeling was bizarre. You had to convert the object to it.
>> Then if you wanted to change topology, you had to convert back. It was
>> crazy, so no one really used it (They did a few times at Blue Sky) . So it
>> sounds like they dropped it.
>>
>

RE: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add your mail here

[Angus Davidson]

We have been testing it since November of last year and on a technical level I 
am happy to recommend it for our courses as it does what we need it to do.

However we have a very small Modo community in South Africa so we would need to 
weigh that against whether it would give us  enough students or whether we 
would need to go Maya for that.



From: Nasser Al-Ostath [mushin@gmail.com]
Sent: 08 March 2014 10:49 PM
To: David Rivera
Cc: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add your mail 
here


mushin@gmail.com

Ill give it a try ... although im sad to leave si for good ... the market in my 
country is focused on max or maya but I'd love to givr modo a serious try

On Mar 8, 2014 11:23 PM, "David Rivera" 
mailto:activemotionpictu...@yahoo.com>> wrote:
Hi, I was really touched by some of the in-depth opinions about leaving SI. 
TD´s perspective, and other
users who have dedicated their lives (literally) to build a rock-solid pipeline 
for studios all around the world
using softimage, have really made me think a lot into consideration.

So, to cut a long story short, I´d like to know if there´s a thread in the list 
that´s already being aligned into
the Softimage/MODO transition? If not, I´d like to start it off with this post.

I´m going into MODO and here´s my email:

david_rivera...@yahoo.com

Thanks.

David Rivera
3D Compositor/Animator
LinkedIN
Behance
VFX Reel



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Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

Also modeling in subd mode is prone to crashing a lot.
Le 8 mars 2014 22:25, "David Gallagher"  a
écrit :

>
> Sadly true. And it causes endless problems with clusters and materials.
>
> However, if you use other renderers (not Maya renderer) you don't have to
> subdivide polys/smooth though. You just use the smooth "preview" (3 button)
> for viewport purposes.
>
> There are so many things that are absurdly substandard  compared with
> Softimage.
>
> Their subD modeling was bizarre. You had to convert the object to it. Then
> if you wanted to change topology, you had to convert back. It was crazy, so
> no one really used it (They did a few times at Blue Sky) . So it sounds
> like they dropped it.
>
> On 3/8/2014 2:17 PM, Greg Punchatz wrote:
>
>  "And, one of most important thing is, there is no *Subdivision* modeling
> in Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use *Smooth* to
> render... how ridiculous software is that..."
>
>  I have heard some crap about maya that blows my mind but I am pretty
> sure you are missing something.. otherwise there would be Maya users
> jumping off bridges everywherethey already cant edit in multi mode "why
> would I do that?? I would just write a script to do it" said the maya
> user...sigh"
>
>
>
>
>

RE: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Angus Davidson]

Unfortunately for the the education sector we wont get students for a product 
that is no longer in development. That is a fact. We have already had very ugly 
correspondence from our current and past students to deal with. This also means 
that that the number of students leaving with Softimage skills will diminish 
fairly rapidly.

Unlike the commercial side we havent had a stay of execution. Once our current 
ARC licences run out that is it. Given AD had budged a bit on the commercial 
side I am always hopeful that they might do the same for us. Either way unless 
there is some commitment from AD to doing more then just leaving it on life 
support, we will no longer be in a position to teach SI. In our case we have a 
course starting in July and we either need to know there is enough of an about 
turn by AD by approximately  May (so our lecturers can have time to prepare for 
using a new app)





From: Mario Reitbauer [cont...@marioreitbauer.at]
Sent: 08 March 2014 10:38 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

Sry Emilio it wasn't my intention to hurt any feelings.
I won't post anything like that anymore but gonna be helpful instead.

So if we want to keep softimage there need to be reasons presented to the 
managers they on the other hand can present to the shareholders.

It needs to have an impact on the shareholders, otherwise AD management won't 
care. What could those reasons be ?
1) that many users won't migrate to maya
--> cancel your subscription immediatly and stay with the actual version you 
got and tell them why you do it.
2) deliver them a list of studios and people who will not migrate to maya
3) i don't know what else shareholders and management could care about.

In the end it's though to find anything which could impress the management that 
much that they would continue to develop SI.


2014-03-08 21:15 GMT+01:00 Emilio Hernandez 
mailto:emi...@e-roja.com>>:
Well Mario, without any disrespect to your decision.

Move on.  We are holding here and we will.

You have already made up your mind.  So many of we.  And it is really getting 
to start annoying that each time we are trying to put something.  A guy with 
"Move on" pop in.

I think that by at this time and specially with Autodesk's yesterday 
announcment that we can use Softimage perpetually.  Many have alraeady made up 
their minds.

So move on man!   But please stop jumping in and say it is "useless".

Cheers and I wish you the best in your decisions.

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-08 14:09 GMT-06:00 Mario Reitbauer 
mailto:cont...@marioreitbauer.at>>:

Mirko you are actually right. I guess it hits me harder then a lot of others 
beeing a TD (and Animator).

But I know allready that I need to do the transtion within the next years and 
that I need to start yesterday.
Just want to share my sight of view that its time to move on, even if they keep 
SI up.
Nontheless, the longer SI is out there the easier it makes us the transition I 
guess.


2014-03-08 21:01 GMT+01:00 Mirko Jankovic 
mailto:mirkoj.anima...@gmail.com>>:

Mario, I guess that most affected are specialized guys like you, like my friend 
Alessio.. TDs and similar with skills that are pretty focused to Softimage 
alone.
Let's face it, to learn to animate, light, render... in Maya coming from 
Softimage, doesn't take much. Rigging is a bit different set of shoes.
Also small shops, generalist pretty much anyone that is kinda self sustained is 
still not that affected as client doesn't ask what tool is used but just 
interested in final result.
Also most of "small" guys are not even using like half of SI's power so even 
couple years without upgrades, unless some big bugs are there, is not a problem.
But bigger shops will move from SI, with that also shortage of jobs for 
Softimage specialists.
Once 3rd party developers start developing that is beginning of the real end.
Truth is 3rd party guys put Softimage on steroids and developed for SI more 
than AD did and would do in the next 5 years at least.
So it is easier to understand pessimism coming from couple of your posts.

But there is still a lot of time even for you and similar cases to adapt, if 
needed well learn new tools and toys.
There are a lot of shops that will still stay with Softimage for years to come 
so it is not like you will right away be left on dry, right??


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Mario Reitbauer 
mailto:cont...@marioreitbauer.at>> wrote:
I would love to do that but as mentioned in another post.

Now as we have seen what happend to SI (and might happen again if they keep it 
up) which company is going to stick to SI ?
I mean were are we guys gonna find jobs with SI ?

Don't you think the harm is allready done ?


2014-03-08 20:30 GMT+01:00 Eric Turman 
mailto:i.anima...@gmail.com>>:

Nicely put Greg,

I have to add that I'm very wear

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Eric Thivierge]

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Ahmidou Lyazidi wrote:

> You can't compare maya and soft reder pass system, maya's one don't have
> the partitions and override propagation system, which make almost useless.


Exactly correct. Maya doesn't really look like a solution for lighting /
rendering unless they scrap their system and implement something more
modern.


Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Greg Punchatz]

you forgot to trim your post ;)

Re: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add your mail here

[Tim Crowson]

We're not transitioning to Modo, but I have used it for years and am 
more than willing to assist in what capacity I can. We've got a few more 
here as well who are long-time Modo users (Gideon, Sergio...). Modo is a 
very different app to Softimage! Some things can be translated, others 
will require new concepts entirely.


Tim Crowson
tcrow...@gmail.com


On 3/8/2014 2:58 PM, Jason S wrote:

"Closed/Open" is a matter of interpretation so it seems.

On 03/08/14 15:55, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
Well there is always the option to hire some Softimage freelancers to 
add more seats to your studio in case you need them.


Fortunatley we are at a stage now, that archives can be easily move 
from any part of the world.


You can easily integrate this kind of workflow and additional 
Softimage seats to your pipeline, without actually having to buy more 
licenses.


Just a thought.

Cheers!

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-08 14:50 GMT-06:00 Jordi Bares >:


At realise we were about to embark on a project and were
contemplating the idea of getting a couple of Softimage licenses,
in parallel we are testing Modo too to complement the modelling
side but now seems the Softimage route is closed so we will
either wait to see what Side Effects do as a result of the
Softimage fiasco or buy modo and invest  on it.

seems likely we will go Modo

Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com 

On 8 Mar 2014, at 20:22, David Rivera
mailto:activemotionpictu...@yahoo.com>> wrote:


Hi, I was really touched by some of the in-depth opinions about
leaving SI. TD´s perspective, and other
users who have dedicated their lives (literally) to build a
rock-solid pipeline for studios all around the world
using softimage, have really made me think a lot into consideration.

So, to cut a long story short, I´d like to know if there´s a
thread in the list that´s already being aligned into
the Softimage/MODO transition? If not, I´d like to start it off
with this post.

I´m going into MODO and here´s my email:

david_rivera...@yahoo.com 

Thanks.
*David Rivera*
/3D Compositor/Animator/
LinkedIN 
Behance 
VFX Reel 







--
Signature

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Ahmidou Lyazidi]

You can't compare maya and soft reder pass system, maya's one don't have
the partitions and override propagation system, which make almost useless.
Le 8 mars 2014 22:20, "Cristobal Infante"  a écrit :

> Also render passes do exist they are just a bit different (though I've
> never worked with them)
>
> http://lesterbanks.com/2014/02/working-maya-render-layers-render-passes/
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 8 March 2014 21:17, Greg Punchatz  wrote:
>
>> "And, one of most important thing is, there is no *Subdivision* modeling
>> in Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use *Smooth* to
>> render... how ridiculous software is that..."
>>
>> I have heard some crap about maya that blows my mind but I am pretty
>> sure you are missing something.. otherwise there would be Maya users
>> jumping off bridges everywherethey already cant edit in multi mode "why
>> would I do that?? I would just write a script to do it" said the maya
>> user...sigh"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: Rendermap crashing

[Paul Griswold]

I'm actually rendermapping a camera projected animation, so I am mapping
the texture to the incandescence and then the inverted alpha to scale the
transparency.  That gives me a baked rendermap that maintains the alpha and
lighting from the camera projection.

I don't understand why Softimage doesn't have a built-in ability to render
animated rendermaps, though.
ᐧ


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:13 PM, Jason S  wrote:

>  Hum.. intriging indeed..  so at least now you can put your lambert's
> ambient at 3.33 to make it constant
> (if your scene ambient is at default 0.3)
>
>
> On 03/08/14 16:08, Paul Griswold wrote:
>
>  Looks like switching to Lambert fixed the problem.  I don't understand
> why a constant material would cause a crash, though.
>
>
>  ᐧ
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jason S  wrote:
>
>>  Does it work with a plain phong?  if not, would eliminating all other
>> objects do the trick?
>>
>>
>> On 03/08/14 15:48, Paul Griswold wrote:
>>
>>  I haven't been able to catch any messages unfortunately.
>>
>>  I do wonder if it's because I'm using a constant shader on the object
>> being rendermapped.  Previously I'd applied a Lambert.
>> ᐧ
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Jason S  wrote:
>>
>>> Have you checked the last "Verbose" messages before crashing?
>>>
>>> I would think it's probably due to a specific object in particular,
>>> and/or copies of it if the case being.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/08/14 15:31, Paul Griswold wrote:
>>>
>>>  I have a ton of animated rendermapping to do, so I'm using Mapify from
>>> Sajjad Amjad.
>>>
>>>  The problem I'm having is a LOT of crashes.  I can't seem to find any
>>> consistent reason for it.  I've been able to get it to render out 24
>>> frames, 42 frames, and then sometimes Softimage will crash after just 2
>>> frames.
>>>
>>>  Is there a more stable way to render out a large number of animated
>>> rendermaps?  Or is this a Mental Ray / Softimage problem?
>>>
>>>  Thanks,
>>>
>>>  Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>  ᐧ
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Eric Thivierge]

How does the OpenSubDiv fit in there then?


Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:24 PM, David Gallagher <
davegsoftimagel...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Sadly true. And it causes endless problems with clusters and materials.
>
> However, if you use other renderers (not Maya renderer) you don't have to
> subdivide polys/smooth though. You just use the smooth "preview" (3 button)
> for viewport purposes.
>
> There are so many things that are absurdly substandard  compared with
> Softimage.
>
> Their subD modeling was bizarre. You had to convert the object to it. Then
> if you wanted to change topology, you had to convert back. It was crazy, so
> no one really used it (They did a few times at Blue Sky) . So it sounds
> like they dropped it.
>

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Steven Caron]

haha, you don't have to be religious about it, just when things start to
get long and are no longer relevant.

 i am reading through gmail and on my phone sometimes. the phone will try
to fit the entire email including all the replies so it is really difficult
to read!



On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

> Sorry for not trimming that last post Steve ;) Using gmail as my main mail
> app is new to me. It auto hides the previous reply's on my end.
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[David Gallagher]

Sadly true. And it causes endless problems with clusters and materials.

However, if you use other renderers (not Maya renderer) you don't have 
to subdivide polys/smooth though. You just use the smooth "preview" (3 
button) for viewport purposes.


There are so many things that are absurdly substandard  compared with 
Softimage.


Their subD modeling was bizarre. You had to convert the object to it. 
Then if you wanted to change topology, you had to convert back. It was 
crazy, so no one really used it (They did a few times at Blue Sky) . So 
it sounds like they dropped it.


On 3/8/2014 2:17 PM, Greg Punchatz wrote:
"And, one of most important thing is, there is no *Subdivision* 
modeling in Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use 
*Smooth* to render... how ridiculous software is that..."


I have heard some crap about maya that blows my mind but I am 
pretty sure you are missing something.. otherwise there would be Maya 
users jumping off bridges everywherethey already cant edit in 
multi mode "why would I do that?? I would just write a script to do 
it" said the maya user...sigh"

RE: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Sven Constable]

I think what Mario meant to say was not to discourage anyone  or  to say
that no matter what we'll  do, it's useless. It's all a matter how it will
be affecting us. Small shops and one-man-shows  like me will be not very
affected at all, actually. I can say for sure, I will continue using
softimage after 2016 and much longer. Someone here talked about using
Softimage 7.01 in actual production. If I take this to a level of
version-upgrade from 2011 to 2015 ,I think about the new features that came
since  then: ICE-Modeling, Lagoa, CrowdFX, Polygonizer  and many
improvements  and bugfixes. For me it's a huge step forward. Upgraading from
2011 to 2015 is a nice thing for me. And even some of you will surely not
taking THIS as an advantage: Softimage2015 will come with mentalray3.12 and
that means GPU accellerated GI! I will have access to the new MILA-shaders
and many more  things in mental ray since version 2011.

 

What makes me and us so sad, is the hard cut of the emotional connection to
Softimage. But that connection is not dropped. It will remain and many of us
will continue to use Softimage. May it in actual production or for keeping
legacy stuff.

 

Sven

 

From: softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com
[mailto:softimage-boun...@listproc.autodesk.com] On Behalf Of Emilio
Hernandez
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2014 9:16 PM
To: softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
Subject: Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

 

Well Mario, without any disrespect to your decision.

Move on.  We are holding here and we will.

You have already made up your mind.  So many of we.  And it is really
getting to start annoying that each time we are trying to put something.  A
guy with "Move on" pop in.

I think that by at this time and specially with Autodesk's yesterday
announcment that we can use Softimage perpetually.  Many have alraeady made
up their minds.

So move on man!   But please stop jumping in and say it is "useless".

Cheers and I wish you the best in your decisions.




---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.

 

2014-03-08 14:09 GMT-06:00 Mario Reitbauer :

Mirko you are actually right. I guess it hits me harder then a lot of others
beeing a TD (and Animator).

 

But I know allready that I need to do the transtion within the next years
and that I need to start yesterday.

Just want to share my sight of view that its time to move on, even if they
keep SI up.

Nontheless, the longer SI is out there the easier it makes us the transition
I guess.

 

2014-03-08 21:01 GMT+01:00 Mirko Jankovic :

 

Mario, I guess that most affected are specialized guys like you, like my
friend Alessio.. TDs and similar with skills that are pretty focused to
Softimage alone.

Let's face it, to learn to animate, light, render... in Maya coming from
Softimage, doesn't take much. Rigging is a bit different set of shoes.

Also small shops, generalist pretty much anyone that is kinda self sustained
is still not that affected as client doesn't ask what tool is used but just
interested in final result. 

Also most of "small" guys are not even using like half of SI's power so even
couple years without upgrades, unless some big bugs are there, is not a
problem.

But bigger shops will move from SI, with that also shortage of jobs for
Softimage specialists. 

Once 3rd party developers start developing that is beginning of the real
end. 

Truth is 3rd party guys put Softimage on steroids and developed for SI more
than AD did and would do in the next 5 years at least.

So it is easier to understand pessimism coming from couple of your posts. 

 

But there is still a lot of time even for you and similar cases to adapt, if
needed well learn new tools and toys.

There are a lot of shops that will still stay with Softimage for years to
come so it is not like you will right away be left on dry, right??

 

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Mario Reitbauer 
wrote:

I would love to do that but as mentioned in another post.

 

Now as we have seen what happend to SI (and might happen again if they keep
it up) which company is going to stick to SI ?

I mean were are we guys gonna find jobs with SI ?

 

Don't you think the harm is allready done ?

 

2014-03-08 20:30 GMT+01:00 Eric Turman :

 

Nicely put Greg, 

 

I have to add that I'm very weary of the "its just a tool" excuse. Sticks
and rocks put together are tools too but they can not achieve the same
quality in the brief period that a laser CNC machine can...and they are both
"just tools." Softimage is an amazing a force multiplier that allows much
smaller teams to accomplish tasks well beyond much larger teams using other
tools. It is a very myopic move for Autodesk to stifle innovation.

 

-=Eric Turman

 

On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 12:20 PM, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

Keep up the noise people!! 

Change has already happened keep up the pressure folks. Write to your
congressman..Ermm, I mean this guy...

chris.vienn...@autodesk.com

Please

Re: URGENT: Consolidation of Questions

[Greg Punchatz]

Mario... Change has already happened... there is already talk from AD about
further discussions going on internally.

I am asking for the same modest support we have had under AD...plus just a
bit of marketing..

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Cristobal Infante]

Also render passes do exist they are just a bit different (though I've
never worked with them)

http://lesterbanks.com/2014/02/working-maya-render-layers-render-passes/






On 8 March 2014 21:17, Greg Punchatz  wrote:

> "And, one of most important thing is, there is no *Subdivision* modeling
> in Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use *Smooth* to
> render... how ridiculous software is that..."
>
> I have heard some crap about maya that blows my mind but I am pretty
> sure you are missing something.. otherwise there would be Maya users
> jumping off bridges everywherethey already cant edit in multi mode "why
> would I do that?? I would just write a script to do it" said the maya
> user...sigh"
>
>
>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Greg Punchatz]

"And, one of most important thing is, there is no *Subdivision* modeling in
Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use *Smooth* to
render... how ridiculous software is that..."

I have heard some crap about maya that blows my mind but I am pretty
sure you are missing something.. otherwise there would be Maya users
jumping off bridges everywherethey already cant edit in multi mode "why
would I do that?? I would just write a script to do it" said the maya
user...sigh"

Re: Rendermap crashing

[Jason S]

Hum.. intriging indeed..  so at least now you can put your lambert's 
ambient at 3.33 to make it constant

(if your scene ambient is at default 0.3)

On 03/08/14 16:08, Paul Griswold wrote:
Looks like switching to Lambert fixed the problem.  I don't understand 
why a constant material would cause a crash, though.



ᐧ


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jason S > wrote:


Does it work with a plain phong?  if not, would eliminating all
other objects do the trick?


On 03/08/14 15:48, Paul Griswold wrote:

I haven't been able to catch any messages unfortunately.

I do wonder if it's because I'm using a constant shader on the
object being rendermapped.  Previously I'd applied a Lambert.
ᐧ


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Jason S mailto:jasonsta...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Have you checked the last "Verbose" messages before crashing?

I would think it's probably due to a specific object in
particular, and/or copies of it if the case being.


On 03/08/14 15:31, Paul Griswold wrote:

I have a ton of animated rendermapping to do, so I'm using
Mapify from Sajjad Amjad.

The problem I'm having is a LOT of crashes.  I can't seem to
find any consistent reason for it.  I've been able to get it
to render out 24 frames, 42 frames, and then sometimes
Softimage will crash after just 2 frames.

Is there a more stable way to render out a large number of
animated rendermaps?  Or is this a Mental Ray / Softimage
problem?

Thanks,

Paul


ᐧ

Re: URGENT: Consolidation of Questions

[Eric Thivierge]

I have a feeling that a setup for these questions would be better done with
something like the User Voice site so people can vote and you won't have to
deal with a lot of duplication. Plus you get the priority questions
automatically since there is voting built in.


Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Jason S  wrote:

> Can this link be accesed? or is it just me?
>
> On 03/08/14 14:22, Doeke Wartena wrote:
>
>> here:
>> https://docs.google.com/document/d/10reItsMpXD309tOH7ZVF3trh6cHMm
>> EtlNEdJWK7pnpM/edit?usp=sharing
>>
>>
>

Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users

[Daniel Kim]

Too much things Maya is missing actually.

*GATOR, ICE, Gear, Unfold, Pass render* and so many.
And, one of most important thing is, there is no *Subdivision* modeling in
Maya. There used to be, but it's gone. They normally use *Smooth* to
render... how ridiculous software is that...


---
Daniel Kim
Animation Director & Professional 3D Generalist
http://www.danielkim3d.com
---




On Sun, Mar 9, 2014 at 1:58 AM, Sofronis Efstathiou <
sefstath...@bournemouth.ac.uk> wrote:

>
> I hear there is little or no implementation of a non-linear workflow in
> Maya - particularly in Animation and rigging. Trax editor is poorly
> implemented, and making changes to rig and envelope is problematic. I hear
> adding additional deformers to an envelope means you are required to
> re-weight the entire character - is that true? How does Maya deal with
> production based changes to assets mid flow? Important, as students tend to
> make a number of mistakes whilst learning - the freedom that Softimage and
> Houdini affords students is fantastic from an educators perspective.
>
> No Gator - transferring envelope Weight, weight maps, shapes and UV's from
> lores to Hires  meshes - is this possible in Maya?
>
> Cheers
>
> Sofronis Efstathiou
>
> Postgraduate Framework Leader and BFX Competition and Festival Director
> Computer Animation Academic Group
> National Centre for Computer Animation
>
> Email: sefstath...@bournemouth.ac.uk
>
> Tel: +44 (0) 1202 965805
>
> Profile: http://uk.linkedin.com/in/sofronisefstathiou
>
> Student Work:
> http://www.youtube.com/NCCA3DAnimation
> http://www.youtube.com/NCCADigitalFX
> http://www.youtube.com/NCCAAnimation
>
> [cid:2B0EDAED-9913-41E3-A368-B68A42C12FB1]
>  [cid:1824EE91-6B3B-4E3C-8317-08F02CB7EE56] 
>
>
> [cid:B348D44D-AA6E-47AC-9041-848D9C191EBD]
>
> Awarded for world-class computer animation teaching
> with wide scientific and creative applications
>
>
> From: Nicolas Esposito <3dv...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Autodesk softimage  softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
> Date: Saturday, 8 March 2014 12:48
> To: Autodesk softimage  softimage@listproc.autodesk.com>>
> Subject: Re: Maya feature request from Softimage users
>
>
> I would go the opposite direction:
> Get Softimage core,reskin everything so it'll look like Maya,with UI
> improvement,add Maya best tools and you're done
>
> Il 07/mar/2014 19:29 "Siew Yi Liang"  soni...@gmail.com>> ha scritto:
> Hello Jeremie!
>
> Missing GATOR and ICE the most, and clusters riding with the mesh by
> default, and the procedural workflow throughout. :D Also having a proper
> shapes manager, although there is one little script by Daniel S. Lima which
> mimics XSI's shape manager and is really nice to work with for getting pose
> space deformation in Maya working.
>
> Also there is no in-built way in Maya to handle PSD unless you write your
> own angle/cone reader...really silly oversight I feel. Even if it is
> possible to build my own with nodes. (And nodes in Maya really need the
> equivalent of the Compounds in ICE...)
>
> Off-topic though, sorry: a little while ago I think I remember you
> mentioning that at Blur you were working on something more powerful than
> GEAR and were planning to release it eventually? Are those plans canned
> now? :X
>
> (BTW are you going to do any more cmivfx tutorials? :D )
>
> Yours sincerely,
> Siew Yi Liang
>
> On 3/7/2014 10:22 AM, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
> Ability to drag and drop objects in the outliner under other objects like
> the explorer.
> Ability to have non transformation groups
>
> Pfff I am working in Maya right now, as I am required to do so, the list
> is so long as I continue to do stuff.
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-07 12:18 GMT-06:00 Jason S  jasonsta...@gmail.com>>:
> Problem-solving  without  problem-solving-code-departments
>
> On 03/07/14 13:15, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
> +1
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-07 12:14 GMT-06:00 Rob Chapman  tekano@gmail.com>>:
>
> No icons..?  :D
>
> On 7 Mar 2014 18:10, "Emilio Hernandez"  emi...@e-roja.com>> wrote:
> Independency of child parameters from parent objects.  LIke for example if
> you want to hide the parent and leave the child visible, and not spread all
> of this throught the hierarchy.
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014-03-07 12:05 GMT-06:00 Emilio Hernandez  emi...@e-roja.com>>:
> Ability to change the same parameters in a multi selection objects
>
> ---
> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>
>
> 2014

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Greg Punchatz]

Sorry for not trimming that last post Steve ;) Using gmail as my main mail
app is new to me. It auto hides the previous reply's on my end.

Re: Luxology Modo 50% off for this mailing list - A new word from Brad Peebler

[Eric Thivierge]

It's my point exactly that people need to evaluate these products. No
reason to jump the gun and straight out buy a license at one of these 50%
off deals just to find out you wasted your money on an app that's not going
to cover what you need it to. Any one of these companies should be knocking
down your door and going out of their way to provide you with extended
evals so you can do just that in production. I want people to evaluate this
stuff. Any company forcing you to decide right now is just preying on
people because of the discontinuation.


Eric Thivierge
http://www.ethivierge.com


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 2:05 PM, Angus Davidson wrote:

>  Hi Eric
>
>  I dont think anyone is suggesting mass migrating studios to
> modo/houdini/lw now. However these deals allow folks to get a  copy for
> evaluation. We did exactly that in November of Last year (when everyone was
> getting upset with folks like me who were warning them this was coming). It
> takes longer then 15 days to do a proper evaluation if your doing it
> properly.
>
>  Its not about being foolish , but rather being forward thinking and
> putting yourself in a position to make the best decision.
>
>  This was fortunate in our case because the Arc Licences are set to
> expire on the 28th of this month. Unlike the commercial folks we dont have
> the safety net of april 2016.
>
>  Kind regards
>
>  Angus
>
>
>  --
> *From:* Eric Thivierge [ethivie...@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 08 March 2014 08:31 PM
>
> *To:* softimage@listproc.autodesk.com
> *Subject:* Re: Luxology Modo 50% off for this mailing list - A new word
> from Brad Peebler
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Tim Crowson <
> tim.crow...@magneticdreams.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm just tired of the emotional hooplah over this stuff.
>
>
> Heh, you should wait a few months then. :) Honestly though. I'm not saying
> there are fools but there are people already buying into these deals. Just
> wait a few months ffs.
>
> 
> Eric Thivierge
> http://www.ethivierge.com
>
>  This communication is intended for the addressee only. It is confidential. 
> If you have received this communication in error, please notify us 
> immediately and destroy the original message. You may not copy or disseminate 
> this communication without the permission of the University. Only authorised 
> signatories are competent to enter into agreements on behalf of the 
> University and recipients are thus advised that the content of this message 
> may not be legally binding on the University and may contain the personal 
> views and opinions of the author, which are not necessarily the views and 
> opinions of The University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg. All agreements 
> between the University and outsiders are subject to South African Law unless 
> the University agrees in writing to the contrary.
>
>

Re: Rendermap crashing

[Paul Griswold]

Looks like switching to Lambert fixed the problem.  I don't understand why
a constant material would cause a crash, though.


ᐧ


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Jason S  wrote:

>  Does it work with a plain phong?  if not, would eliminating all other
> objects do the trick?
>
>
> On 03/08/14 15:48, Paul Griswold wrote:
>
>  I haven't been able to catch any messages unfortunately.
>
>  I do wonder if it's because I'm using a constant shader on the object
> being rendermapped.  Previously I'd applied a Lambert.
> ᐧ
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Jason S  wrote:
>
>>  Have you checked the last "Verbose" messages before crashing?
>>
>> I would think it's probably due to a specific object in particular,
>> and/or copies of it if the case being.
>>
>>
>> On 03/08/14 15:31, Paul Griswold wrote:
>>
>>  I have a ton of animated rendermapping to do, so I'm using Mapify from
>> Sajjad Amjad.
>>
>>  The problem I'm having is a LOT of crashes.  I can't seem to find any
>> consistent reason for it.  I've been able to get it to render out 24
>> frames, 42 frames, and then sometimes Softimage will crash after just 2
>> frames.
>>
>>  Is there a more stable way to render out a large number of animated
>> rendermaps?  Or is this a Mental Ray / Softimage problem?
>>
>>  Thanks,
>>
>>  Paul
>>
>>
>>  ᐧ
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Andy Goehler]

Well put, I'm convinced this should apply to all of us using whatever software 
to help us achieve what we want. Software as a tool is still very young an 
constantly evolving. Be prepared for change. In some periods for the better, in 
others for the worst.

Andy

> On 08.03.2014, at 21:15, Mirko Jankovic  wrote:
> 
> People that know only one thing usually gets pretty narrow sight and at one 
> point can't see anything on the sides, when solution to problem is only a 
> look away.
> At the end all what matter is what you do and that you are good in your work.

Re: Keep up the noise... (but don't be a dick)

[Greg Punchatz]

Here is an easy way out for the marketing peeps... they killed
Softimageto bring back XSI.   Sigh... going to keep up the fight.

Here is what I think happened... they cant invest a lot into Soft.. they
have to pick one spend the big bucks on... they thought not giving Soft all
the love it deserved was worse than killing it.. surely they were not
losing money with the new small dev team?  But someone thought it would be
better to just man up and axe it now as it was not getting enough focus.
While strangely the new team was actually making a lot of beta members
happy...even going the extra mile right at the end to get us decent
release...

My thought is keep that team alive... I was happy with 2015 .. I know it
cant be ADs top dog...just give it a boost in the areas the 3rd party
people cant add Open Subd's, Ptex and expand the SDK... I am not asking
AD to make it number one for RnD... but for god sake keep it alive. Let
Soft steal some math here and there from your other products not
letting apps cross pollinate is silly.

It would show for onceAD listened. that would go a long way to
boost your consumers confidence. ...which is at a all time low.




On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 2:38 PM, Mario Reitbauer
wrote:

> Sry Emilio it wasn't my intention to hurt any feelings.
> I won't post anything like that anymore but gonna be helpful instead.
>
> So if we want to keep softimage there need to be reasons presented to the
> managers they on the other hand can present to the shareholders.
>
> It needs to have an impact on the shareholders, otherwise AD management
> won't care. What could those reasons be ?
> 1) that many users won't migrate to maya
> --> cancel your subscription immediatly and stay with the actual version
> you got and tell them why you do it.
> 2) deliver them a list of studios and people who will not migrate to maya
> 3) i don't know what else shareholders and management could care about.
>
> In the end it's though to find anything which could impress the management
> that much that they would continue to develop SI.
>
>
> 2014-03-08 21:15 GMT+01:00 Emilio Hernandez :
>
> Well Mario, without any disrespect to your decision.
>>
>> Move on.  We are holding here and we will.
>>
>> You have already made up your mind.  So many of we.  And it is really
>> getting to start annoying that each time we are trying to put something.  A
>> guy with "Move on" pop in.
>>
>> I think that by at this time and specially with Autodesk's yesterday
>> announcment that we can use Softimage perpetually.  Many have alraeady made
>> up their minds.
>>
>> So move on man!   But please stop jumping in and say it is "useless".
>>
>> Cheers and I wish you the best in your decisions.
>>
>> ---
>> Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.
>>
>>
>> 2014-03-08 14:09 GMT-06:00 Mario Reitbauer :
>>
>> Mirko you are actually right. I guess it hits me harder then a lot of
>>> others beeing a TD (and Animator).
>>>
>>> But I know allready that I need to do the transtion within the next
>>> years and that I need to start yesterday.
>>> Just want to share my sight of view that its time to move on, even if
>>> they keep SI up.
>>> Nontheless, the longer SI is out there the easier it makes us the
>>> transition I guess.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-03-08 21:01 GMT+01:00 Mirko Jankovic :
>>>
>>>  Mario, I guess that most affected are specialized guys like you, like
 my friend Alessio.. TDs and similar with skills that are pretty focused to
 Softimage alone.
 Let's face it, to learn to animate, light, render... in Maya coming
 from Softimage, doesn't take much. Rigging is a bit different set of shoes.
 Also small shops, generalist pretty much anyone that is kinda self
 sustained is still not that affected as client doesn't ask what tool is
 used but just interested in final result.
 Also most of "small" guys are not even using like half of SI's power so
 even couple years without upgrades, unless some big bugs are there, is not
 a problem.
 But bigger shops will move from SI, with that also shortage of jobs for
 Softimage specialists.
 Once 3rd party developers start developing that is beginning of the
 real end.
 Truth is 3rd party guys put Softimage on steroids and developed for SI
 more than AD did and would do in the next 5 years at least.
 So it is easier to understand pessimism coming from couple of your
 posts.

 But there is still a lot of time even for you and similar cases to
 adapt, if needed well learn new tools and toys.
 There are a lot of shops that will still stay with Softimage for years
 to come so it is not like you will right away be left on dry, right??


 On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 8:54 PM, Mario Reitbauer <
 cont...@marioreitbauer.at> wrote:

> I would love to do that but as mentioned in another post.
>
> Now as we have seen what happend to SI (and

Re: Rendermap crashing

[Jason S]

Does it work with a plain phong?  if not, would eliminating all other 
objects do the trick?


On 03/08/14 15:48, Paul Griswold wrote:

I haven't been able to catch any messages unfortunately.

I do wonder if it's because I'm using a constant shader on the object 
being rendermapped.  Previously I'd applied a Lambert.

ᐧ


On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Jason S > wrote:


Have you checked the last "Verbose" messages before crashing?

I would think it's probably due to a specific object in
particular, and/or copies of it if the case being.


On 03/08/14 15:31, Paul Griswold wrote:

I have a ton of animated rendermapping to do, so I'm using Mapify
from Sajjad Amjad.

The problem I'm having is a LOT of crashes.  I can't seem to find
any consistent reason for it.  I've been able to get it to render
out 24 frames, 42 frames, and then sometimes Softimage will crash
after just 2 frames.

Is there a more stable way to render out a large number of
animated rendermaps?  Or is this a Mental Ray / Softimage problem?

Thanks,

Paul


ᐧ

Re: Anyone in the SI list transitioning to MODO? -Please add your mail here

[Jason S]

"Closed/Open" is a matter of interpretation so it seems.

On 03/08/14 15:55, Emilio Hernandez wrote:
Well there is always the option to hire some Softimage freelancers to 
add more seats to your studio in case you need them.


Fortunatley we are at a stage now, that archives can be easily move 
from any part of the world.


You can easily integrate this kind of workflow and additional 
Softimage seats to your pipeline, without actually having to buy more 
licenses.


Just a thought.

Cheers!

---
Emilio Hernández   VFX & 3D animation.


2014-03-08 14:50 GMT-06:00 Jordi Bares >:


At realise we were about to embark on a project and were
contemplating the idea of getting a couple of Softimage licenses,
in parallel we are testing Modo too to complement the modelling
side but now seems the Softimage route is closed so we will either
wait to see what Side Effects do as a result of the Softimage
fiasco or buy modo and invest  on it.

seems likely we will go Modo

Jordi Bares
jordiba...@gmail.com 

On 8 Mar 2014, at 20:22, David Rivera
mailto:activemotionpictu...@yahoo.com>> wrote:


Hi, I was really touched by some of the in-depth opinions about
leaving SI. TD´s perspective, and other
users who have dedicated their lives (literally) to build a
rock-solid pipeline for studios all around the world
using softimage, have really made me think a lot into consideration.

So, to cut a long story short, I´d like to know if there´s a
thread in the list that´s already being aligned into
the Softimage/MODO transition? If not, I´d like to start it off
with this post.

I´m going into MODO and here´s my email:

david_rivera...@yahoo.com 

Thanks.
*David Rivera*
/3D Compositor/Animator/
LinkedIN 
Behance 
VFX Reel