Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!)
Royce, If you go back through my original posting, you will see that the door on the side is the cinder clean out. The dampers are the doors on the front and back of the ash pan. The only time the side door is opened, is to remove the accumulated ash, and any small clinkers that made it through the grates. Large clinkers can also be removed there, but only by dumping the drop grate and pushing the large clinker off of the rocking grates, onto the hinger drop grate. The side door is not used for firing control. Keith - Original Message - From: Royce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!) Keith Taylor wrote: The doors you mention are located at the front and rear of the ash pan, and are called dampers and they control where the air enters the fire, and how much. Hi Keith. You know, I just re-visited Vance's photo and it appears that there is a hinged thingy on the side of the firebox as opposed to the front or back. Am I mis-reading the photo ? royce
Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!)
Thanks Keith (as always!). O.S 3/4 Britannia also has side doors to remove the ashes. (I haven't made the dampers for the Maisie yet! - -but your drawing is still on the desk top) Geoff Royce, If you go back through my original posting, you will see that the door on the side is the cinder clean out. The dampers are the doors on the front and back of the ash pan. The only time the side door is opened, is to remove the accumulated ash, and any small clinkers that made it through the grates. Large clinkers can also be removed there, but only by dumping the drop grate and pushing the large clinker off of the rocking grates, onto the hinger drop grate. The side door is not used for firing control. Keith - Original Message - From: Royce [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!) Keith Taylor wrote: The doors you mention are located at the front and rear of the ash pan, and are called dampers and they control where the air enters the fire, and how much. Hi Keith. You know, I just re-visited Vance's photo and it appears that there is a hinged thingy on the side of the firebox as opposed to the front or back. Am I mis-reading the photo ? royce
Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!)
- Original Message - From: Geoff Spenceley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks Keith (as always!). O.S 3/4 Britannia also has side doors to remove the ashes. (I haven't made the dampers for the Maisie yet! - -but your drawing is still on the desk top) Hi Geoff, I bet my pile of unbuilt project drawings is deeper than your pile! But...so long as we are having fun, then the hobby is doing what it is supposed to be doing! Keith
Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!)
Keith Taylor wrote: Royce, If you go back through my original posting, you will see that the door on the side is the cinder clean out. I think that I blinked while reading your post and missed that comment. But you're right. It's there in black and white. My bad. royce
Re: Faux firebox
Hi Vance. Thanks for the info and photos. Seeing what you've done is inspirational. The outside frame on your pony truck is awesome! royce in SB Vance Bass wrote: Royce, Coincidentally, I finished mounting the firebox and pony truck on my Ruby last night.
Re: Faux firebox
The outside frame on your pony truck is awesome! Thanks, Royce. I can't take credit for that part: it's a brass casting I got from Pete Thorp several years ago. I considered making them myself, then remembered that I had some, somewhere in my box of castings. That sure made the job easier! -vance- A dead man asks you to remember the highest ideal of the warrior is that he lay down his sword. Jet Li in Hero
Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!)
Hi Keith. Thanks for the info. It always amazes me how much knowledge is in this group. And how much skill it takes to actually drive a steam locomotive. Don't imagine there's alot of kick back time like I'm sure there is driving a diesel. They took all the fun out of it ! royce in SB Keith Taylor wrote: Hello Royce. You wrote: My supposition is that you should see the bottom of the firebox down to the mudring and then something related to the fire - maybe called the ashpan ? The photos that I've seen seem to have doors on them controlled by a rod. This is the part I don't understand. The doors you mention are located at the front and rear of the ash pan, and are called dampers and they control where the air enters the fire, and how much. When you are running forward, with a coal fired locomotive, you want the bulk of the air entering the fire to come from the rear, as air entering from the front will just take the shortest path up along the front seet of the firebox, and enter the tubes without having supplied oxygen to the coal! And, it has the specific bad effect of chilling the sheet nearest the front and breaking stay bolts and loosening tubes. So, for forward running, you mostly close the front damper, open the rear ones, and force any air entering to come up through the firebed! The farther you open the damper, the higher the amount of air, and hence a higher firing rate! So, lugging a drag of felled trees up a grade, the damper would be wide open. Loafing along drifting, you can close it down and save coal, since you aren't working the boiler very hard. These dampers (the doors) are controlled by rods that extend up in the cab floor, where thefireman can control the opening by lifting the lever and hooking it by a notch in the lever, to the cab floor holding it at whatever position he wants. The door on the side of the ash pan, as shown in Vance's photo, is the clean out, where ash accumulations are removed. If you let the ask get too high, it does two things, once chokes off air supply to the grates, and in some cases where the ash was allowed to actually reach the grates, it kept air from hitting the gratesm and cooling them. With the ash acting as an insulant, the grates can reach the temperature where they will actually melt! So, now you know what the doors are, they are firing controls on wood and coal burning locomotives. KeithIn frosty, and still snow covered Maine!
Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!)
Keith Taylor wrote: The doors you mention are located at the front and rear of the ash pan, and are called dampers and they control where the air enters the fire, and how much. Hi Keith. You know, I just re-visited Vance's photo and it appears that there is a hinged thingy on the side of the firebox as opposed to the front or back. Am I mis-reading the photo ? royce
Re: Faux firebox
Hi Vance, et al. Happy Easter. Got a few moments while waiting for wifey to get ready for services. Thanks for the firebox photo. You say that the the arms for mounting the front pivot are missing. Not sure what they are so I don't know what's missing. My supposition is that you should see the bottom of the firebox down to the mudring and then something related to the fire - maybe called the ashpan ? The photos that I've seen seem to have doors on them controlled by a rod. This is the part I don't understand. But at any rate, it turns out that the pony truck frame swings to the side on curves and would foul any faux firebox I were to put there. So my idea has been dashed on the rocks of practicality. Oh well. I really didn't need a futher complication to my project to prevent me from getting her back in steam ASAP. Spring is coming ! And longer daylight which God intended for steamers who have JOBS during the day. royce in SB Vance Bass wrote: Royce, Here's a photo of the firebox of an 0-4-4. Obviously the arms for mounting the front pivot are missing,
Re: Faux firebox (now firebox Facts!)
Hello Royce. You wrote: My supposition is that you should see the bottom of the firebox down to the mudring and then something related to the fire - maybe called the ashpan ? The photos that I've seen seem to have doors on them controlled by a rod. This is the part I don't understand. The doors you mention are located at the front and rear of the ash pan, and are called dampers and they control where the air enters the fire, and how much. When you are running forward, with a coal fired locomotive, you want the bulk of the air entering the fire to come from the rear, as air entering from the front will just take the shortest path up along the front seet of the firebox, and enter the tubes without having supplied oxygen to the coal! And, it has the specific bad effect of chilling the sheet nearest the front and breaking stay bolts and loosening tubes. So, for forward running, you mostly close the front damper, open the rear ones, and force any air entering to come up through the firebed! The farther you open the damper, the higher the amount of air, and hence a higher firing rate! So, lugging a drag of felled trees up a grade, the damper would be wide open. Loafing along drifting, you can close it down and save coal, since you aren't working the boiler very hard. These dampers (the doors) are controlled by rods that extend up in the cab floor, where thefireman can control the opening by lifting the lever and hooking it by a notch in the lever, to the cab floor holding it at whatever position he wants. The door on the side of the ash pan, as shown in Vance's photo, is the clean out, where ash accumulations are removed. If you let the ask get too high, it does two things, once chokes off air supply to the grates, and in some cases where the ash was allowed to actually reach the grates, it kept air from hitting the gratesm and cooling them. With the ash acting as an insulant, the grates can reach the temperature where they will actually melt! So, now you know what the doors are, they are firing controls on wood and coal burning locomotives. KeithIn frosty, and still snow covered Maine!
Re: oil firing (was firebox Facts!)
Hey, Keith, Following your good info about coal ashpans, I was reminded of a question I have been unable to answer about the oil-fired model I'm building. The thing has a tank under the oil bunker that I took to be an air tank at first. But on closer examination of the plans, there are two problems with that: no air pump, and little sliding flaps on the ends of the tank. So, clearly, it's not an air tank. My hypothesis is that it's a warming tank for the fuel oil. Can anyone confirm or deny that guess? (There's a pic at http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/fh%26pb/kahuku_tank.jpg. The pink area is some kind of shroud or duct, further indicating that it's something I don't recognize.) Thanks for any clarifications. -vance- A dead man asks you to remember the highest ideal of the warrior is that he lay down his sword. Jet Li in Hero
Re: oil firing (was firebox Facts!)
- Original Message - From: Vance Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:53 PM Subject: Re: oil firing (was firebox Facts!) Hey, Keith, Following your good info about coal ashpans, I was reminded of a question I have been unable to answer about the oil-fired model I'm building. The thing has a tank under the oil bunker that I took to be an air tank at first. But on closer examination of the plans, there are two problems with that: no air pump, and little sliding flaps on the ends of the tank. So, clearly, it's not an air tank. Hi Vance, I have little or no experience with oil burners on locomotives, but I think that tank may in fact be a pre-heater for the vaporizer, like was used on Stanley steam automobiles. This was only used during the initial firing and would heat the burner itself so that as the fuel entered the burner nozzle, it would vaporize the fuel and ignite. Once the burner nozzle was hot, you could turn off the pre-heater, as it wasn't there to heat the oil, but the burner. At steam car meets, you will see the fellows today, in the interests of safety, use a propane torch like a Bernz-O-Matic, to heat the burner, and not use the car's preheater, as that was basically a gasoline blow torch permanently mounted to the car! Keith
Re: oil firing (was firebox Facts!)
Actually, it reminds me of a blowdown muffler I have seen on a few mainline locos. Do the blowdown valves on this loco open out to the sides as per normal? If not they might be piped back to this canister where the noise and velocity of the water can be restricted before letting it fall onto the track through the pink part which would be almost as wide as the rails... Just a thought... it might have been installed to protect the cane..? Really need a photo of it, as opposed to a drawing where the artist could have missed some detail. (no offence intended if you are the artist) Trot, the guessing, fox... On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 17:48:44 -0500, Keith Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Original Message - From: Vance Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 4:53 PM Subject: Re: oil firing (was firebox Facts!) Hey, Keith, Following your good info about coal ashpans, I was reminded of a question I have been unable to answer about the oil-fired model I'm building. The thing has a tank under the oil bunker that I took to be an air tank at first. But on closer examination of the plans, there are two problems with that: no air pump, and little sliding flaps on the ends of the tank. So, clearly, it's not an air tank. -- | /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember, | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ There is a | \_/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative.
Re: Faux firebox
Vance for the Ruby owners of the group can you provide photo's of your frame/cab floor extension including the mounting of the rear coupler box or link and pin box? Mike Paterson BSRR __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
Re: Faux firebox
Hi, Mike, You can read full details in the Forney kit instructions: http://www.nmia.com/%7Evrbass/fhpb/Forney/FHPB_Forney_Instruction s.PDF To install link-and-pin couplers, I just remove the Accucraft thing, drill a hole in the beam and glue it in. best regards, -Vance- Vance Bass FHPB Railroad Supply Co. 6933 Cherry Hills Loop NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 USA http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/fhpb/
Re: Faux firebox
Amazing Vance! I got the picture Bob
Re: Faux firebox
Vance, The pic wasn't stripped, you made a faux pas but got away with it--hey, it was worth it! Thanks! Geoff. P.S. I am attaching a highly exciting photo of my wife and me in bed and steaming up on our 60th anniversary but no doubt it'll get stripped. I have no such luck as you did!! Royce, Here's a photo of the firebox of an 0-4-4. Obviously the arms for mounting the front pivot are missing, but as you can see, it's pretty simple. Just a metal box hanging down between the frames. On some, you could see the rivets staying the wet legs, but on this one, it looks like the ashpan is all that's visible. I hope that helped. (List readers, sorry this will get stripped off the note. If you're dying to see the photo, I'll be glad to send it to you if you contact me off-list.) regards, -vance-
Re: Faux firebox
At 01:39 PM 3/25/05 -0700, you wrote: (List readers, sorry this will get stripped off the note. If you're dying to see the photo, I'll be glad to send it to you if you contact me off-list.) regards, Vance, The photo indeed DID make it through, at least through to me. Regards, Harry
Re: Help In Valuing Aster Pennsylvania K4
Anybody have any thoughts? \dmc At 5:55 PM -0800 3/23/05, Mr. X wrote: I have an Aster Pennsylvania K4 Steam Kit that I acquired around 1984 that has never seen the light of day (actually, I peeked inside to assure myself that it existed therein), and it is still in its original mahogany shipping box and includes its original slick and glossy information flier. I would like to sell this item and would appreciate if you can help me establish a fair price for it -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers http://45mm.com/sslivesteam/lists/ ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 20-24, 2005 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
Re: Boiler commentary
Hi Harry I could not agree more. Even elastic will only stretch to a certain point to return to its original length one over stretched it is always to slack. I remember the classic Cockenzie boiler test in Scotland a number of years ago I think the plate was 8 inch thick if my memory serves me right. The boiler had been tested if I recall 8 times!! The insurance officer did not believe Lloyds etc and insisted seeing the needle on the pin. This time the boiler blew. This was put down to brittle fracture. It had been ultrasonic and radiographically examined but no significant defects had been found. The cockenzie report is of course classic literature. Back to our little kettles, the hydraulic tests are carried out cold, the boiler is run hot. It is usual to examine a vessel before and after the test. This is to ensure that any defects which the test possibly caused or brought to notice can be found before putting the device into service. Over high test pressures can cause considerable damage when the device is put into service. A silver soldered joint is not welded and stress relieved. Who carries out a radiographic examination before and after on our little kettles??. Who has proven gauges? who uses at least two of them for the test? etc etc. I agree fully with you Harry. test to sensible pressures. unless the state requires more. Bert - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Boiler commentary
I think that there are possibly three reasons that the units are tested to such pressures that don't necessarily have any metallurgical bearing: 1) Users may have a tendency to raise the pressure setting on their pressure relief valves above what the factory intends. Since the majority of prv's are not staked or tagged like their full sized brethren, this is easy to do. A number of safety valves from Accucraft do not have an inherent adjustability like the small valves similar to the type that Aster uses. So people put shims in them to raise the spring pressure, or stretch the spring. In normal applications of pressure relief valves, if you pull the wire and tag off, your insurance is NULL. Since our units aren't directly subject to insurance or regulatory inspections. 2) Pressure gauges are not normally checked for accuracy in the US. I have not run across any mention of gauge checking being available at any steam meet. The cost of a master gauge traceable to NIST is about the cost of a Ruby. The cost of one of those calibrated piston pressure generators for gauge testing is much higher. (Don't reply about them being easy to make, I am talking about one that is NIST traceable). Also there would be the cost of recertification of the equipment every year, and liability insurance for providing the service. 3. CYA and government regulations. The latest Accucraft boilers are coming with a boiler certificate for satisfaction of European regulations. This requirement has been discussed somewhere in cyber space more than a few times. Mike Eorgoff
RE: Boiler commentary
At 12:09 PM 3/14/05 -0600, you wrote: 1) Users may have a tendency to raise the pressure setting on their pressure relief valves above what the factory intends. A bad habit to get into, but even so this cannot justify a test standard of 300% of WP. 2) Pressure gauges are not normally checked for accuracy in the US. So let's say a guage is out by 25% under-pressure, which in my experience would be an extreme case, producing a PSIG (gauge reading) of 40psi when in fact the actual pressure is 50psi . . . . for that we need to test to 160psi, 300%+ of actual WP? 3. CYA and government regulations. What regulations Accucraft or any other mfg must comply with, or chooses to comply with, are not my concern and are not the subject of my post. My concern is that that many rank file Ga1 live steamers in the U.S., in particular newcomers to live steam, will see those test figures and get the notion that these are, or should be, recommended or standard practice when in fact they are just as likely to be harmful. Regards, Harry
RE: Boiler commentary
Excellent commentary Harry. Much needed. If you would post (perhaps you already have) the the MLS and STIG sites, this would really get your words out. Whether or not they are heeded is another matter, but you got the word out and that is what is improtant. Noel Original Message Follows From: Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: sslivesteam@colegroup.com To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Subject: Boiler commentary Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:54:07 -0600 Since we're in a lull in the action, I've had some concerns about some things I've lately seen in print on boilers, specifically testing pressures, and my concern is that very misleading messages are being sent by this and those who don't know better will take this to be good practice, or worse yet "required" practice, and begin spreading misinformation, possibly causing someone else who doesn't know better and follows the misinformation to damage an otherwise perfectly good boiler. What has caused my concern is the recent article in SitG wherein it is stated that Torry Krutzke's Pikes Peak Loco K-loco retrofit boilers are hydro-tested to 220psi, with fittings in place no less, and along the same lines that Accucraft supposedly tests Ruby boilers to 160psi.It almost seems to me that in Ga1 live steam these days there are a few things, and a few people, who subscribe to the "If a little is good then a lot more is a lot better" school of thought.This is unecessary, and mis-guided. This should not be taken as a criticism of Pikes Peak or Accucraft, they are entitled to test to whatever pressures they see fit, and they may very well have good reason for doing what they do, although I can't think of a single one.The reason for my comments is to counteract any tendency there might be in the wake of this for people in Ga1 live steam to begin saying that hydro-testing to a high multiple (250% to 400%) of WP (working pressure) is now in some way a requirement or a good thing. It is not and should not be. The universally accepted, and in some cases regulated, test pressures for miniature copper boilers are 2 X WP (200%) for the initial (new) test and 1.5 X WP (150%) for all subsequent tests.Thus for a boiler intended to operate at a nominal 40psi, the new (1st time) test pressure should be done at 80psi and subsequent tests should be done to 60psi. These are neither minimum nor maximum pressures but are "target" pressures, but in any case there is no compelling reason to take test pressure substantially beyond this, certainly not to 300% or 400%. The other thing that I see, in ALL gauges of live steam, is the practice of hydro testing a boiler with the fittings in place.A hydro test is not intended to test fittings nor are fittings intended to withstand hydro-test pressures.One does a hydro test to determine the soundness of the boiler structural envelope and one weep or leak at a fitting renders any hydro test of the shell inconclusive, at least for the purpose of a hydro test in the first place.I know that this won't prevent people from hydro-testing with the fittings in place, because I know how much extra work is involved in stripping a boiler down and plugging the holes with solid threaded plugs for a test, but the record should show, and the general Ga1 population should know, what the correct procedure is in case they decide to use it. Regards, Harry Wade NashvilleTennessee
Re[2]: check valve
George. Both Regner and Reppingen are in Germany. Bert (in Austria) - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Re[2]: check valve
Thanks for the info Bert Noel (George) Crawford Original Message Follows From: Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: sslivesteam@colegroup.com To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Subject: Re[2]: check valve Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 01:31:37 +0100 George. Both Regner and Reppingen are in Germany. Bert (in Austria) - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Saturday steam up.
G'Day Gordon, A lovely day to run and a lovely run--where did you say you live--must be Southern California, surely not Australia in the autumn Don't you call it the wet! And the funniest run was Sir Nigel Gresley with 7 on, chasing a Ruby with 1 car, it took 3 laps to run him down! Now that was sad!!! ;-) Geoff. Well we had a running day herein Clematis[Oz] on Saturday, and it rained all day! not Aussie weather at all,but it didnt stop them, 20 runners,and locos from Roundhouse,Accucraft,Argyle Aster and home builds..it was so wet that by 3 pm ,the Asters with 6 cars on where slipping at the top of the grade,due to wet and oily track,but so where Accucrafts with he same load.but the steam exhaust was wonderful! cool ,wet day and long trails hanging over the track.. And the funniest run was Sir Nigel Gresley with 7 on, chasing a Ruby with 1 car, it took 3 laps to run him down! Gordon Watson.
Re: A Test
Noel, Heard you loud and clear, at my age that is remarkable! Geoff This is a test to see if I got things fixed on this dadburn machine. Keep your pressure (steam that is) up Noel
RE: check valve
Mike, The check valve came from Regner or was it Repenger. The two sound very much alike and do colaborate. One is in Germany the other in Austria I believe. It has METRIC threads and todate I do not think Tom at SS has a metric thread checkvalve. Check with him however. You have their e-mail. If not holler. Mine does not leak but who is to know what it will do next week How was the trip??? NOel Original Message Follows From: mike peterlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: sslivesteam@colegroup.com To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Subject: check valve Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 15:39:56 -0500 Hey Noel, I have a question for you. Does your check valve stop all steam from leaking out, or does it just act as a brake. Mine leaks; I took it all apart, cleaned it and put it back on, but it still leaks. Did it come from Sulpher springs, and ifso, do you know the part no? Trying to get that Regner pump to work, and was curious about that check valve. Mike
Re: check valve
Key west was great. Caught me a 4 foot baracuda. I'll send a pict Mike
Re: A Test
Noel, I agree, a necessary evil these days--but as you say, give me steam any time. Geoff Geoff Thanks for letting me know that the post came through. I guess you don't see your own posts which confuses me. I confuse easily when it comes to these machines. Give me steam anytime. Noel Original Message Follows From: Geoff Spenceley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: sslivesteam@colegroup.com To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Subject: Re: A Test Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2005 12:48:11 -0800 Noel, Heard you loud and clear, at my age that is remarkable! Geoff This is a test to see if I got things fixed on this dadburn machine. Keep your pressure (steam that is) up Noel
RE: no, the list isn't broken ...
That bit of soul bearing was beuatiful Dave. Isn't great, that after a hard day or week or even month, how a little piece of acient technology known as a steam engine can put you at peace? Keep your steam up and yes I will try to contribute more to the list Noel Original Message Follows From: Dave Cole [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: sslivesteam@colegroup.com To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Subject: no, the list isn't broken ... Date: Sun, 6 Mar 2005 09:23:04 -0800 ... unless it is and then i won't see this message move over it. it's been a week since the last posting to the list and in recent hours a number of people have e-mailed me to say that they are no longer getting the list. you are. there just haven't been any messages for you to receive. not that it is of any particular import or interest to anybody but myself, but last night i ran the ruby for a group of my wife's friends. in the fickle weather of the sf bay area -- amplified by our proximity to the ocean -- you never really know what the weather's going to be like but last night it was cool, clear and crisp. a couple of people who live in the city commented that they could see stars. there were a couple of sparkies in the crowd, but mostly non-train people. yes, it makes real steam, yes it's hot, yes there's water in there. but they soon tired of the demonstration and drifted back into the house (though the call that dessert was being served may have helped change their focus). there was still gas in the ruby and the plume was wonderful, so i sat there for a few minutes watching the engine go 'round and 'round the layout. after a particularly tough week -- soon to be followed by another two or three -- i realized that it had (again) been weeks and weeks since i fired up an engine. i had an opportunity to run yesterday afternoon at the bagrs event, but i didn't even bring an engine. i have made this investment (bought locomotives, built rolling stock, built a layout) and i just don't use it enough. the irony here is that i was going to exhort you to contribute to the list, but i think that's a wrong thing to say. if i'm going to be so presumptuous in telling you to do anything, it should be to go out and run a train today. \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't:Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers http://45mm.com/sslivesteam/lists/ ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 20-24, 2005 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
RE: no, the list isn't broken ...
Dave, Well said! I hope to boil some water before the weekend has ended and the blur of the week begins. It has indeed been too long. Mike Martin _ so i sat there for a few minutes watching the engine go 'round and 'round the layout. ...go out and run a train today. \dmc
Re: no, the list isn't broken ...NOW Saturday Steamup
Well we did run trains yesterday at my monthly steamup. 14 fellas attended and several ran trains. I only got a few photos as I was busy hosting. So here is what was on my camera's memory card when I looked just now. http://home.earthlink.net/~clarklord/Steamup/ Bob Sorenson has scratch built a 0-4-0 alcohol fired steamer. The first runs in January proved it needed a better burner. The next runs in February showed it needed a better firebox and alcohol feed system. Yesterday's runs showed it made lots of steam but needed viton o-rings in the cylinders as the graphited yard had blown out of the piston groove. By April it will be a killer engine. A one of a kind 1:20.3 British outline shunting engine. Dave Hottmann Garrett and GarrettGramps are all about Dave Hottmann (seen next to the track in the first photo along with Steve Davis looking on) and his Accucraft conversion of two Superior 0-6-2T engines into a 0-6-0 + 0-6-0 Superior Garrett. The Gramps cars are 1:20.3 Bachman tank cars. Next is my dear friend Lou Banning. Lou has been helping me over the past several years to build and maintain my large track. He has always been there when I needed a hand. Thank you Louis. In several photos you can see a DRGW green passenger train which belongs to Lou. RubyReefer is of my very own Ruby with three of my 18 Accucraft Reefers being operated by Bob Sorenson's 11 year old son Andy. Hook em early I say. SteveDavisMimi is of his engine hauling his kit bashed car set. Steve owns ride on sized 7 1/2 inch gauge engines and we are both Riverside Live Steamers members. I invited him to one of the monthly steamups several months ago and it looks like the gauge one bug is bitting. In GarrettGramps 0304 you see several fellas. And you see a string of Southern Railway Bulleid coaches of mine. Out in front of those is Frank Russo's SNCF 232 U1 which is alcohol fired. Frank got his exercise yesterday running that engine. It does have a touchy throttle. But then when you watch Tony Dixon run his coal fired version of the same engine, it's off to the races. Both really zoom around the layout. Lastly in GarrettGramps 06 you see the table and Webber Kettle where I prepared lunch for the guys on steamup Saturday. Yesterday it was hamburgers with all the fixings and potato salad. I must give credit to Jim Crabb of Seabrook Texas (near Houston) for inspiring me to host monthly steamups. It was Jim who was doing that very thing in Houston and I could see that would be a good way to get our Las Vegas Gauge One live steam community up and running. We've been at this monthly business for 2-3 years now. At first there was just Lou Banning and me but now we've grown to 15 or so fellas and about half turn up with engines to run and the rest enjoy the fellowship. I know the Seattle bunch are now having two steamups a month and they are cooking lunch also. What I'm getting at is... YOU can do the same thing in your area. It's amazing just how much fun you can have for very little cost. Think about doing it. With the advent of Accucraft's line of engines there are many folks who own one (or more) and need a track upon which to operate. And all of us who have Aster, Roundhouse, DJB, etc. engines can show em how it's done. :) A few phone calls or emails will bring them out of the wood work. Knowing that every month (rain or shine) a steamup will happen makes folks look forward to attending. If you have enough layouts you can do the round robin kind of thing that the Puget Sound GRS live steamers do. They are blessed with a PSGRS owned live steam modular layout which is setup all the time (when not at a trade show) and several persons who have live steam tracks at their homes. The bottom line is ... Just Do It. Cheers Clark Clark B Lord - Las Vegas, Nevada USA Las Vegas Live Steamers - Gauge 1 live steam Treasurer, Las Vegas Garden Railway Society Member, Steam Events LLC Dave Cole wrote: ... unless it is and then i won't see this message move over it. it's been a week since the last posting to the list and in recent hours a number of people have e-mailed me to say that they are no longer getting the list. you are. there just haven't been any messages for you to receive. //snip// the irony here is that i was going to exhort you to contribute to the list, but i think that's a wrong thing to say. if i'm going to be so presumptuous in telling you to do anything, it should be to go out and run a train today. \dmc
Re: no, the list isn't broken ...NOW Saturday Steamup
Thanks Clark, Great activity and pics, wonderful steaming. Really steamed the cockles of me heart after muddying myself up cleaning the pond- It's one messy job, found bottom fish I didn't realise were still alive! Would you please move Vegas closer to Humboldt County, we have so few steamers that are really active! Fortunately I have one friend who lives a block away so we often have a steam up of two! Thanks again for sharing!! BTW where is a pic of Lord Clark steaming?? Geoff. Well we did run trains yesterday at my monthly steamup. 14 fellas attended and several ran trains. I only got a few photos as I was busy hosting. So here is what was on my camera's memory card when I looked just now. http://home.earthlink.net/~clarklord/Steamup/ Bob Sorenson has scratch built a 0-4-0 alcohol fired steamer. The first runs in January proved it needed a better burner. The next runs in February showed it needed a better firebox and alcohol feed system. Yesterday's runs showed it made lots of steam but needed viton o-rings in the cylinders as the graphited yard had blown out of the piston groove. By April it will be a killer engine. A one of a kind 1:20.3 British outline shunting engine. Dave Hottmann Garrett and GarrettGramps are all about Dave Hottmann (seen next to the track in the first photo along with Steve Davis looking on) and his Accucraft conversion of two Superior 0-6-2T engines into a 0-6-0 + 0-6-0 Superior Garrett. The Gramps cars are 1:20.3 Bachman tank cars. Next is my dear friend Lou Banning. Lou has been helping me over the past several years to build and maintain my large track. He has always been there when I needed a hand. Thank you Louis. In several photos you can see a DRGW green passenger train which belongs to Lou. RubyReefer is of my very own Ruby with three of my 18 Accucraft Reefers being operated by Bob Sorenson's 11 year old son Andy. Hook em early I say. SteveDavisMimi is of his engine hauling his kit bashed car set. Steve owns ride on sized 7 1/2 inch gauge engines and we are both Riverside Live Steamers members. I invited him to one of the monthly steamups several months ago and it looks like the gauge one bug is bitting. In GarrettGramps 0304 you see several fellas. And you see a string of Southern Railway Bulleid coaches of mine. Out in front of those is Frank Russo's SNCF 232 U1 which is alcohol fired. Frank got his exercise yesterday running that engine. It does have a touchy throttle. But then when you watch Tony Dixon run his coal fired version of the same engine, it's off to the races. Both really zoom around the layout. Lastly in GarrettGramps 06 you see the table and Webber Kettle where I prepared lunch for the guys on steamup Saturday. Yesterday it was hamburgers with all the fixings and potato salad. I must give credit to Jim Crabb of Seabrook Texas (near Houston) for inspiring me to host monthly steamups. It was Jim who was doing that very thing in Houston and I could see that would be a good way to get our Las Vegas Gauge One live steam community up and running. We've been at this monthly business for 2-3 years now. At first there was just Lou Banning and me but now we've grown to 15 or so fellas and about half turn up with engines to run and the rest enjoy the fellowship. I know the Seattle bunch are now having two steamups a month and they are cooking lunch also. What I'm getting at is... YOU can do the same thing in your area. It's amazing just how much fun you can have for very little cost. Think about doing it. With the advent of Accucraft's line of engines there are many folks who own one (or more) and need a track upon which to operate. And all of us who have Aster, Roundhouse, DJB, etc. engines can show em how it's done. :) A few phone calls or emails will bring them out of the wood work. Knowing that every month (rain or shine) a steamup will happen makes folks look forward to attending. If you have enough layouts you can do the round robin kind of thing that the Puget Sound GRS live steamers do. They are blessed with a PSGRS owned live steam modular layout which is setup all the time (when not at a trade show) and several persons who have live steam tracks at their homes. The bottom line is ... Just Do It. Cheers Clark Clark B Lord - Las Vegas, Nevada USA Las Vegas Live Steamers - Gauge 1 live steam Treasurer, Las Vegas Garden Railway Society Member, Steam Events LLC Dave Cole wrote: ... unless it is and then i won't see this message move over it. it's been a week since the last posting to the list and in recent hours a number of people have e-mailed me to say that they are no longer getting the list. you are. there just haven't been any messages for you to receive. //snip// the irony here is that i was going to exhort you to contribute to the list, but i think that's a wrong thing to say. if i'm going to
Re: no, the list isn't broken ...
Dave, Wonderful to hear the story of a relaxing time. : ] I just realised that it's been months since I made any steam... I really need to get my Ruby fixed and some track on the ground. ; ] Trot, the untimely, fox... -- | /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember, | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ There is a | \_/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative.
Re: Live steam Big Boy.
Grumbling here too Vance ... Steaming Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor | Vance Bass. | | Vance I've just received confirmation that the announcement of a live | steam Big Boy is a mistake. Sorry. | | | Bert | | - | Bert Edmunda | [EMAIL PROTECTED] |
Re: news from Nrnberg Toy Fair
Hi Vance. I have worked on this translation with Manfred. It is true that the European importer Laurenz Schug has confirmed a live steam version. (I'm also the Accucraft dealer for Austria). In my talks with California I have NOT received confirmation of a live steamer? Strange? If they do bring one out it though could have a serious effect on our household budget! I am planning to revisit some old acquaintances and friends in the south west towards the end of this year I'll be landing Phoenix then down to Tucson, Las Cruces Alamogordo Alberquerque Cedar Crest Madrid Santa Fe Chama, Durango Grand Canyon Las Vegas (Disney land for adults)!! among others and then home. On my last trip I got pulled off for driving to fast. I answered in German, that got them guessing, then pleaded low flying and got away with it. can you get any confirmation of a live steam Big Boy? Have a good one Bert. - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: news from Nürnberg Toy Fair
Hey, Bert, I tried to reply directly to you, but the message returned with an error on your mail server. So you helped with the translation -- I wondered how Manfred learned all the technical terms of live steam so quickly! Please, call when you are in Albuquerque. I'd love to take you to lunch. Cedar Crest is, of course, where the Hartfords and also John Clark of Fall River Productions live. I assume you're going to visit the Hartfords? In any case, it would be a pleasure to meet you in person. Your traffic trick was perfect. There is a large group of German pilots who train in Alamogordo, about two hours to the south. They are well-known in the area, so you were probably mistaken for one of them. regards, regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re[2]: news from Nrnberg Toy Fair
Vance I must admit I did very little to help, the lions share came from Canada! My steam experience goes back about 50 years to the real ones. I think I could only get away from them things with psychiatric help now. My wife says she is a (steam) widow who's husband isn't dead yet! Maybe we will see you on our round trip. Yes I met Bob Hartford a couple of years ago any many more nice people in the south west. If I was to move again that would be the direction of movement. I was very impressed. Bert - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Lubricator
Steve, sorry for the late reply, I was out of town. Thank you very much for your pictures of the lubricator. Is it in fact a dead leg lubricator as I can only see one leg ? What is the diameter of the tube/oil opening ? Regards Henner
Re: Lubricator
Henner, Yes, it is a dead leg lubricator with only one leg to the vertical steam line. Its configuration is just like a typical Roundhouse lubricator, except one leg is cut off at the lubricator body and the cut off copper tube is plugged with a small soldered-in copper rivet. The copper tube is 0.125 diameter. The oil opening is on the top of the tube inside, just like a Roundhouse lubricator, and the hole size is 0.035, which is the size of a US #65 drill bit. It is the smallest drill bit I have. Glad to be of help. Regards, Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steve, sorry for the late reply, I was out of town. Thank you very much for your pictures of the lubricator. Is it in fact a dead leg lubricator as I can only see one leg ? What is the diameter of the tube/oil opening ? Regards Henner
Re: G1MRA DUES
Hi Jim, I sent my $45 on 12/20/04, cheque #1391, and have not receive a new card for 2005 as yet. Also undertsand new G1 MR newsletter is in the mail, but not seen Could you please recheck your mail and advise. Best Regards and Thanks, Tony Dixon #1658 - Original Message - From: Jim Curry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2004 1:28 PM Subject: G1MRA DUES For those US members, please remember your dues are due. $26 ground, $45 air, check to G1MRA-USA. Mail to: Jim Curry PO Box 40 Warren, ME 04864 Thanks. Jim Curry
Re[2]: Sinsheim Fotos
Hi Goef. Pleased you liked them. Most of the night photos were just not good enough. Pity, all you could see was glowing fireboxes and the odd spark through the stack. I just wanted to try to transmit the feeling of the event. There is 5km. of 5 track in these halls for this event!! and switching is possible on some of the G tracks, not just race courses. Thanks for your feedback Bert - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sinsheim Foto quiz
some of the photos I shot at the Sinsheim live steam meeting are posted on his site This week's quiz: what loco did I use for the background? ;-) Pete
Re: Sinsheim Foto quiz
What's the prize? Geoff. some of the photos I shot at the Sinsheim live steam meeting are posted on his site This week's quiz: what loco did I use for the background? ;-) Pete
Re: Sinsheim Foto quiz
White pass Mikado? Just a guess... Trot, the photo-viewing, fox... ; ] On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:54:17 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: some of the photos I shot at the Sinsheim live steam meeting are posted on his site This week's quiz: what loco did I use for the background? ;-) Pete -- | /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember, | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ There is a | \_/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative.
Re: Sinsheim Fotos
Dear Snowed under Bert, I have really enjoyed viewing many of your photos to this moment. I'll swear there are more locos than people, a lot of models of US prototypes too. Thank you Pete for organizing and reorganizing them so that they are now so easy to pick out and view.Good job! Kudos to both of you, I am having fun!! Geoff To all Thanks to Pete Thornton some of the photos I shot at the Sinsheim live steam meeting are posted on his site. These are 5, 7 1/4, 1 and 0 gauges. I'm not the best photographer but these should give some idea of the meeting held each year 2nd weekend in Jan. Next year 13th,14th and 15th Jan. The address for those interested.: http://gold.mylargescale.com/petethornton/sinsheim Bert - (snowed under) in Austria. - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sslivesteam-Digest - Number 1351
Vance, My German is not too good but it looks like the Big Boy shown is electric, not live steam, although I did hear that Accucraft was planning a live steam version. That price was probably for the electric version. I was following that Ebay auction on the Big Boy kit and couldn't believe the price it sold for. Pat Covington, LA Timber Tallow Branch RR Subject: Accucraft prototypes at Intl Toy Fair Manfried Meliset, publisher of GartenBahn, sent a note with some photos of new items from the International Toy Fair in N=FCrnberg, Germany. He saw prototypes of Accucraft's live steam K-28 (I had heard this was coming, but hadn't seen details) and Big Boy(!). Maybe I saw the Big Boy before and immediately forgot it because it's out of my area of interest, but when I read the suggested price it stuck this time: would you believe 4850 Euro? (That's US$6300 at today's rate.) We just saw an unbuilt Aster Big Boy go for $17500 on eBay; this guy could have save 2/3 of that and a LOT of building time if he could have waited until next year... regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass -- Message Number: 6 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:40:11 +0100 From: Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Accucraft prototypes at Intl Toy Fair Vance, The Accucraft model will probably be to little hands on. There is always something to do to Aster models that is if the wind doesn't blow the fire out! The Accucraft K-27 is almost boring, fire her up and let her run for the next 50 minutes. (almost like an electric model) The boiler on a Big Boy must be vast. Bert. - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Message Number: 7 Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 19:55:02 +0100 From: Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Gartenbahn photos To All Sneak preview. The photos from the German magazine Gartenbahn can be seen at the following address. Sorry still in German text The English is still not finished. www.gartenbahn.de/pdf/PMD_Beilg_SM05_V2.pdf This has been OK ed by the publisher Manfred R. Meliset Bert - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Here goes my 2 cent's worth about copper treaded bushings. Better if you use a no zinc bronze. Copper is too soft and its threads will tend to distort and even pull out when a male thread is screwed in it. Like you will always be able to tighten it more. Bronzes silver solders well. Copper, though soft, doesn't machine well. It's sticky and sort of welds to the cutting tool and this causes rough finished surfaces. Arthur--Mexico City Subject: Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Re[2]: Boiler bushing bronze
Auther These are my sentiments exactly. Turning copper is for the beginner inviting the ploughed field finish if it doesnt get torn out of the chuck to disappear with high speed past your left ear. Just pulling down a screw can be the last time. I'd go for the bronze. Bert - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
At 11:30 PM 2/15/05 -0500, you wrote: my opinion on using copper as bushings is based on the following: #1 LBSC in his book about building TICH (page 156) recommends as bushing material copper with The next best thing is bronze. Henner, That was written ca. 1951 and things have changed in 50+ years. I have a boiler from one of the most popular LBSC locos, designed ca. 1946, which uses no bushings for fittings and today of course this would never fly. #2 The Tich boiler kit we are currently building for my friend David's garratt was supplied by Reeves with material for copper bushings. Having been one of the worlds principle suppliers for all these years and one assumes up to date, I would be very surprised if Reeves supplied copper but they may very well have. In either case some phos bronze appears pinkish-red and very similar to copper but certainly doesn't machine like copper. You'll be able to tell the difference when you begin machining, the phos-bronze is very hard and tends to heat up quickly. Regards, Harry
Re: Re[2]: Boiler bushing bronze
Bert warned:- These are my sentiments exactly. Turning copper is for the beginner inviting the ploughed field finish if it doesnt get torn out of the chuck to disappear with high speed past your left ear. Just as long as it's not the right of the left ear Mike (been there, done that - just once!)
Re: Accucraft prototypes at Intl Toy Fair
Vance, The Accucraft model will probably be to little hands on. There is always something to do to Aster models that is if the wind doesn't blow the fire out! The Accucraft K-27 is almost boring, fire her up and let her run for the next 50 minutes. (almost like an electric model) The boiler on a Big Boy must be vast. Bert. - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Big Boy price sticks to neurons
Gary, You know how it is! labor rates, including skilled labor are very very low in China and they are now producing some excellent products. Labor in Japan and the other developed nations cannot compete. I'll tell you one thing, it ain't going to last. I will have to stay with Aster until Accucraft produces a Brit loco, 1/32 scale which I might consider, (if I have any money left!)Anyway, I prefer kits and alcohol, also I'm not into Big Boys (no pun intended!) as a hobby item although I think the prototype is awesome-- I did own an HO Big Boy. Incidentally Accucraft doesn't make junk, I bet the Big Boy is excellent quality with piston and rings copied from Aster! Speaking of products made in China, at the Diamondhead steam up I was very pleasantly surprised and impressed (overall) with the Aristocraft Mikado-- H--MM was it a Mikado? Consider that price, the model was unique. I think we will find many Sparkies also steaming! Hooray!! Aristocraft did a remarkable marketing job, no matter what your opinion they are an excellent contributor to our hobby . Incidentally I collect some Britain's military figures, they are now made in China, are much more accurately detailed--but--but-they cost more. Maybe it's in the profit! Geoff, the unwise one! I think you made the price stick in my mind Vance! How can they make it for that price? That is amazaing. Are they making pistons with rings or just metal to metal? Steaming Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor Maybe I saw the Big Boy before and immediately forgot it because it's out of my area of interest, but when I read the suggested price it stuck this time: would you believe 4850 Euro? (That's US$6300 at today's rate.) We just saw an unbuilt Aster Big Boy go for $17500 on eBay; this guy could have save 2/3 of that and a LOT of building time if he could have waited until next year... regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass;
Re: Lubricator
Henner, Here are a couple of pix of a homemade lubricator that is tee'd into a vertical steamline. The steamline runs through the boiler's firebox and up to the engine's steamchest. The lubricator works well. The section of the pipe from the lubricator to the tee junction rises about 12 mm. You can see this, sort of, in the photos. (One photo is with lagging on the steamlines. The other before the lagging was added.) The 12mm rise in the steamline was speculated to prevent oil from flowing into the main steamline after just a small amount of condensate had settled in the lubricator below the oil. This was a guess and I'm not sure if it is supported by theory. A dead-leg lubricator is a displacement lubricator. How it works is not so intuitive as a flow-through displacement lubricator. It works, but I could not explain how. http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/SteveShyvers%5C4-2-0%20Project%5C4-2-0%20Lubricator.jpg http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/SteveShyvers%5C4-2-0%20Project%5CVR1A%20Notch%20Screw%20FWD.jpg I believe that the % in these links must be replaced by spaces or other punctuation to work correctly. Sorry that I cannot remember that detail. Steve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, on our donkeys we need to install (displacement) lubricators. The only place available is the vertical pipe coming down to the throttle. All lubricator designs I have seen so far work with a horizontal pipe. The dead-leg lubricator can probably be hooked up to a vertical pipe, but this device is a mystery to me... Any brillant ideas on how to solve our problem? And one more question: Empty butane cans (the Korean grocery store variety) begin to pile up in my garage. Is there a political correct way to get rid of them ? Regards Henner
RE: Boiler bushing bronze
I would suggest staying away from Aluminum Bronze. The aluminum bronzes require special (read expensive and hard to get) fluxes to silver braze properly. Regular fluzes do not clean properly on aluminum bronze so it's basically like soldering without flux. Not very nice. What you want is a phosphor bronze. Look at Enco or McMaster-Carr Ken Colorado USA What you need is a no zinc bronze. Bronze is copper alloy. Go to your nearest machine shop and beg or buy a tiny piece of aluminum bronze and turn it to your needs. SAE 94 bronze is softer and good. It has lead but no zinc. All machine shops have left overs and will give you a little piece happily with no sweat.
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Message text written by INTERNET:sslivesteam@colegroup.com Henner is of course entitled to his opinion but cutting decent threads in bushings, regardless of material, is not the point. A very nice thread can be coaxed through a copper however the greatest need, and the primary purpose in using bronze, is to retain the fullest and strongest thread for Harry, my opinion on using copper as bushings is based on the following: #1 LBSC in his book about building TICH (page 156) recommends as bushing material copper with The next best thing is bronze. #2 The Tich boiler kit we are currently building for my friend David's garratt was supplied by Reeves with material for copper bushings. #3 The draft of the Australian live steamers on medium pressure gauge 1 boilers allows copper bushings. The link to this draft was somewhere in the thread about boilers in mylargescale. Unfortunately I downloaded the draft, but can't find the link any more #4 We built a small vertical boiler a couple of years ago with copper bushings. The bushing for the safety valve doubles up as filler valve and is removed for every filling/topping up. The thread is M6 x 0.75, finer than 1/4 28TPI. As of today not a trace of wear is visible. #5 With copper as bushing, the choice of material for the fittings is wider, as bronze can be used (unless the bronze for bushing/fitting is of a different grade) #6 I agree with Vance, that tapping directly into a backplate is not to be recommended. My point was/is that at least for gauge 1 boilers copper bushings are as safe as bronze bushings, in case copper rod is more easily available. For larger boilers I would probably switch to bronze for the reasons you indicated. Regards Henner
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Jim, What you need is a no zinc bronze. Bronze is copper alloy. Go to your nearest machine shop and beg or buy a tiny piece of aluminum bronze and turn it to your needs. SAE 94 bronze is softer and good. It has lead but no zinc. All machine shops have left overs and will give you a little piece happily with no sweat. Arthur--Mexico City Subject: Boiler bushing bronze What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings
Re: Hex Bronze?
At 11:21 AM 2/14/05 -0600, you wrote: Rolling in on the heels of the brass vs. bronze question Does anyone have a readily available source for HEX bronze? - Mike Eorgoff Mike, That's going to be a real toughie, especially if you want smaller than 1/2 hex in a small quantity. I couldn't find a ready source on the www but Chronos (in the UK) has some around .250 and .325. Depending upon the quantity you need it may be cheaper and quicker to mill it from a round bar. Regards, Harry
Re: Lubricator
Re. empty butane cans, I take a sharp pointed Rock Hammer or a fence tool and strike the can a couple times. this puts a couple of visible square holes in the can and then we put with all the other recycle cans and bottles. The gas will exit with the first good hit and the can is safe. - Original Message - From: Henner Meinhold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: Lubricator Hi, on our donkeys we need to install (displacement) lubricators. The only place available is the vertical pipe coming down to the throttle. All lubricator designs I have seen so far work with a horizontal pipe. The dead-leg lubricator can probably be hooked up to a vertical pipe, but this device is a mystery to me... Any brillant ideas on how to solve our problem? And one more question: Empty butane cans (the Korean grocery store variety) begin to pile up in my garage. Is there a political correct way to get rid of them ? Regards Henner
Re: Lubricator
try your local county recycle center, or trash collector. - Original Message - From: Henner Meinhold [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2005 4:12 PM Subject: Lubricator Hi, on our donkeys we need to install (displacement) lubricators. The only place available is the vertical pipe coming down to the throttle. All lubricator designs I have seen so far work with a horizontal pipe. The dead-leg lubricator can probably be hooked up to a vertical pipe, but this device is a mystery to me... Any brillant ideas on how to solve our problem? And one more question: Empty butane cans (the Korean grocery store variety) begin to pile up in my garage. Is there a political correct way to get rid of them ? Regards Henner
Re: Lubricator
At 04:12 PM 2/13/05 -0500, Henner Meinhold wrote: And one more question: Empty butane cans (the Korean grocery store variety) begin to pile up in my garage. Is there a political correct way to get rid of them ? When they are EMPTY (a very important consideration), use a screw driver to puncture the can. It can then be safely put in with the rest of the garbage. regards, pf
Re: Lubricator
At 05:49 PM 2/13/05 -0500, you wrote: puncture the can. It can then be safely put in with the rest of the garbage. . . . . or maybe dropped off at a recycling center in the steel alum bin. Regards, Harry
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
At 06:57 PM 2/13/05 -0800, you wrote: What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks Jim O'Hearn Jim, The preferred material is phosphor bronze, and while there are a number of phosphor bronzes one of the most commonly stocked ones has an alloy designation of C-510. A workable alternative is 660 bronze which is a continuous cast bearing bronze usually sold in 13 sticks at any good bearing supply house or industrial supply. Even though it has a very small % of lead I use it for larger (5/8+OD) bushings and it works just fine. Henner is of course entitled to his opinion but cutting decent threads in bushings, regardless of material, is not the point. A very nice thread can be coaxed through a copper however the greatest need, and the primary purpose in using bronze, is to retain the fullest and strongest thread form possible for as long as possible. Fine threads in a malleable material such as copper are easily damaged or stretched . . . in other words they deteriorate much faster. The reason that phosphor bronze is preferred is that it cuts and holds threads like mild steel yet is completely compatible with copper and silver solders as easily as copper. Regards, Harry
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Henner notes that you don't necessarily need bronze bushings, since copper can now be tapped with modern cutting fluids. Please, don't take this to mean that you don't need bushings, only that they don't have to be bronze. There was a long discussion recently on the G1MRA list about boilers -- including some from well-known Japanese loco builders -- with appliances threaded directly into the backhead plate, without bushings. I'll spare you the details, but will summarize the thread thus: yes, it can be done. No, it's not a good idea. The original post was looking for a source for bronze bushings. I'm not sure where you'll find copper for bushings, either. Do not use brass under any circumstances, as it will deteriorate in a matter of a few years and become unsuitable for holding pressure. You can buy bronze rod from McMaster-Carr's web site. regards, -vance- Vance Bass Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA Small-scale live steam resources: http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Jim: You will find 660 bronze in the Enco catalog (and others) in different sizes. A solid 1 inch diameter rod of 660 bronze 13 inches long is on sale this month in the Enco catalog for US$10.29 plus shipping. Sizes range from 1/2 inch to 3 1/2 inches, all 13 inches long. Cheers Clark Clark B Lord - Las Vegas, Nevada USA Las Vegas Live Steamers - Gauge 1 live steam Treasurer, Las Vegas Garden Railway Society Member, Steam Events LLC Harry Wade wrote: At 06:57 PM 2/13/05 -0800, you wrote: What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks Jim O'Hearn Jim, The preferred material is phosphor bronze, and while there are a number of phosphor bronzes one of the most commonly stocked ones has an alloy designation of C-510. A workable alternative is 660 bronze which is a continuous cast bearing bronze usually sold in 13 sticks at any good bearing supply house or industrial supply. Even though it has a very small % of lead I use it for larger (5/8+OD) bushings and it works just fine. Henner is of course entitled to his opinion but cutting decent threads in bushings, regardless of material, is not the point. A very nice thread can be coaxed through a copper however the greatest need, and the primary purpose in using bronze, is to retain the fullest and strongest thread form possible for as long as possible. Fine threads in a malleable material such as copper are easily damaged or stretched . . . in other words they deteriorate much faster. The reason that phosphor bronze is preferred is that it cuts and holds threads like mild steel yet is completely compatible with copper and silver solders as easily as copper. Regards, Harry
Re: Boiler bushing bronze
Hi Jim. Basically, any of the continuous cast bronze bars usually available from bearing suppliers at a reasonable cost. Here they sell it in 1 foot long sticks. Some in larger sizes from 7/8 diameter is available hollow cast, which if you are making things with large holes through them (eg Gauge 1 cylinders) is cheaper.You need a cast material - stay away from sintered ones. Probably a leaded bronze would be easier to work. LG1 is often used also. Jim Gregg W.Australia. At 06:57 PM 2/13/2005 -0800, you wrote: Hello all What is the best type of bronze to use for boiler bushings on guage 1 live steamers, and where is the best place to buy it? Thanks Jim O'Hearn
Re: Off Topic
Like usual there always are good uses for those things we think have no good use on earth for. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145014,00.html And this qualifies me for a daily double off topic award I believe! Steaming Sparking over Terror Trestle in Eugene, Oregon ~ Gary http://www.angelfire.com/or/trainguy http://community.webshots.com/user/raltzenthor Unless something's been rained on I don't know why anybody bothers to buy the stuff. Regards, Harry
RE: Ruby pony truck
BTW. Feel free to forward these photo's to Trotfox I do not have his address. ThanksDJM Daniel J. McGrath From: "Vance Bass" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: sslivesteam@colegroup.com To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Subject: Ruby pony truck Date: Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:13:32 -0700 Hi, Ruby owners, Could I ask one of you who owns a Ruby 2-4-2 and a digital camera to do me a favor, please? I would like to see how Accucraft attaches their pony truck under the cab of the loco. If you would be kind enough to shoot a photo from below and send it to me, I would be most grateful. Thanks! best regards, -Vance- Vance Bass FHPB Railroad Supply Co. 6933 Cherry Hills Loop NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 USA http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/fhpb/
Re: Off Topic
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a different time, I was a gunsmith. In days of old, Blueing was actually Browning, and was accomplished by promoting rust to the exterior finish of a firearm and then steaming the finish, etc., etc.. On the right firearm (or small cannon) it's a really beautiful finish. Hello Trent, I agree with you and Harry as well! I aside from messing with live steam locomotives, also enjoy working on old clocks. I now won't even look at a clock where the owner got it running again by squirting WD into the works! They will take an old clock that has been in an attic where the temps reach well over 100°F amd cooked the oil into a gummy mess, then without taking it apart to properly clean it, will hose it down with WD. This will make the gears move and the clock will run for a day or two, then as dirt clings to the coating of WD that's been slathered on everywhere, it becomes a grinding paste that laps away the pivot points and enlarges the openings in the movement's plates. As the WD turns to an almost glass hard crust and the clock slows down, they will blithly squirt away with yet more WD. After several treatments like this, they will bring the clock to some poor soul saying how they had restored their treasure heirloom and had it running great. But, it has stopped now, and must need something else to make it go. They know it isn't lack of lubrication, because they've used a quart of WD on it already! Like I said, I won't even look at those clocks, not only because the WD is a bear to remove, but mostly because during the time it was there holding the abrasive grains of dirt and mundge in the bearings, it has worn away the pivot holes so you now cannot locate the center to center distances of the clock's wheels and arbors. Nasty stuff, at least around any sort of precision machinery! Keith
Re: Off Topic
Harry Wade wrote: Whatever it is its main quality, and what it was orginally developed for, is water displacement, thus WD. . . . . although it certainly does displace moisture. Regards, Harry So what does displacement mean ? I'm guessing that it must get between water molecules and whatever the water is in contact with. So how does it do this ? And as another matter, how should such a product perform as opposed to just wiping off the water ? I don't get it. There seems to be some implied rust preventative property that would indicate that the product gets between the iron based substrate and oxides forming at the surface to prevent further rust ? I should point out that my interest is not in it's rust prevention or lubricating properties, but as a release agent capable of getting between glass and vinyl caulking. I have checked the MSDS but some categories such as aliphatic Petroleum Distillates cover a range of hydrocarbons ranging for CH10 to CH50 (numbers are supposed to be subscript for the chemists among us). Not much help if you are trying to understand what's going on at the molecular level. And of course, I wonder how the Club owner discovered that WD40 disolved cocaine ? The best to all. royce
Re: Off Topic
At 06:16 AM 2/10/05 -0800, you wrote: So what does displacement mean ? I'm guessing that it must get between water molecules and whatever the water is in contact with. Royce, That's close enough. So how does it do this? I have no clue. Regards, Harry
Re: Off Topic
After WWII, thousands of German and Japanese long guns found there way to the US as the troops came home. My Dad fashioned a great varmit rifle chambered for .257 Roberts. A local 'old time' gunsmith helped Dad to formulate a blueing salts formula for the gun. I got involved in this. It was the hot boiling bath method and produced a fantastic patina. I don't know how many times we boiled and hand rubbed that piece of steel, but it took weeks to get the finish he wanted. That finish lasted for over 35 years and NEVER had WD on it - only Hoppee's(sp?) There's a big difference between the depth and durability of the 'blue' you get with the cold method versus the hot boiling salts process. Keep your steam up! Mr. Lunkenheimer's associate, Walt - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic Hello All, I was going to stay out of this conversation, but I second Harry's comments. Bear with me. In a different time, I was a gunsmith. In days of old, Blueing was actually Browning, and was accomplished by promoting rust to the exterior finish of a firearm and then steaming the finish, etc., etc.. On the right firearm (or small cannon) it's a really beautiful finish. When my mentor in the field taught me the process of Browning, he used aerosol type WD-40 to spray the surface. After a short period of time- sometimes within a day or so- rust would start appearing. He said that without the WD-40, the process was prolonged and the rust coverage would not be nearly as uniform. I never doubted him, and never once deviated from the practice. At my job as a gunsmith, I regularly encountered firearms who's owners had used WD-40 on them for *misguided* lubrication obtained from the back of the can, or sometimes in attempt of a quick cleaning. Everything had a gummy, tacky, varnish on it that was very difficult to remove. In my opinion, avoid WD-40 period. I've personally never seen a real use for it. A perfect example of good marketing. If you need a lubricant, use a real lubricant. If you need a cleaner, use a real cleaner. The CRC products are well engineered, as is the STIHL Penetrating Oil. I get the STIHL product from my local chainsaw shop. Later, Trent Quoting Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 01:36 PM 2/8/05 -0800, you wrote: Does anybody out there know what's in WD-40 ? - royce Royce, I used to . . . but it wasn't important enough to remember for very long. Whatever it is its main quality, and what it was orginally developed for, is water displacement, thus WD. It has virtually no lubricating qualities and very little protective qualities although it certainly does displace moisture. Unless something's been rained on I don't know why anybody bothers to buy the stuff. I have found what is a pretty good (and cheap) short-term lubricant/preservative. It's Pep Boys Super Lubricant. The best general service penetrating preservative for the workshop I've found is CRC 3-36 (#03005). Regards, Harry -1wners had used WD-40 on them for *misguided* lubrication obtained from the back of the can, or sometimes in attempt of a quick cleaning. Everything had a gummy, tacky, varnish on it that was very difficult to remove. In my opinion, avoid WD-40 period. I've personally never seen a real use for it. A perfect example of good marketing. If you need a lubricant, use a real lubricant. If you need a cleaner, use a real cleaner. The CRC products are well engineered, as is the STIHL Penetrating Oil. I get the STIHL product from my local chainsaw shop. Later, Trent Quoting Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 01:36 PM 2/8/05 -0800, you wrote: Does anybody out there know what's in WD-40 ? - royce Royce, I used to . . . but it wasn't important enough to remember for very long. Whatever it is its main quality, and what it was orginally developed for, is water displacement, thus WD. It has virtually no lubricating qualities and very little protective qualities although it certainly does displace moisture. Unless something's been rained on I don't know why anybody bothers to buy the stuff. I have found what is a pretty good (and cheap) short-term lubricant/preservative. It's Pep Boys Super Lubricant. The best general service penetrating preservative for the workshop I've found is CRC 3-36 (#03005). Regards, Harry This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
RE: Ruby pony truck
Dan, thanks for your reply, but the photos were stripped off by the list server. Would you be kind enough to send them directly to my address? Thanks! -vance- A dead man asks you to remember the highest ideal of the warrior is that he lay down his sword. Jet Li in Hero
Re: Off Topic
Keith, I use WD40 for weed killer around the track, none ever touches my locos or the grandfather clock! Geoff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a different time, I was a gunsmith. In days of old, Blueing was actually Browning, and was accomplished by promoting rust to the exterior finish of a firearm and then steaming the finish, etc., etc.. On the right firearm (or small cannon) it's a really beautiful finish. Hello Trent, I agree with you and Harry as well! I aside from messing with live steam locomotives, also enjoy working on old clocks. I now won't even look at a clock where the owner got it running again by squirting WD into the works! They will take an old clock that has been in an attic where the temps reach well over 100°F amd cooked the oil into a gummy mess, then without taking it apart to properly clean it, will hose it down with WD. This will make the gears move and the clock will run for a day or two, then as dirt clings to the coating of WD that's been slathered on everywhere, it becomes a grinding paste that laps away the pivot points and enlarges the openings in the movement's plates. As the WD turns to an almost glass hard crust and the clock slows down, they will blithly squirt away with yet more WD. After several treatments like this, they will bring the clock to some poor soul saying how they had restored their treasure heirloom and had it running great. But, it has stopped now, and must need something else to make it go. They know it isn't lack of lubrication, because they've used a quart of WD on it already! Like I said, I won't even look at those clocks, not only because the WD is a bear to remove, but mostly because during the time it was there holding the abrasive grains of dirt and mundge in the bearings, it has worn away the pivot holes so you now cannot locate the center to center distances of the clock's wheels and arbors. Nasty stuff, at least around any sort of precision machinery! Keith
Re: BAGRS Project Loco
I'll tell you what axle boxes are all about. My father told me about 65 years ago. He was in the engineer corps in the U.S. army and stationed in France during the first world war. He worked as a maintenance mechanic (oil gun) in the RR yards in France during the war. He told me that the Germans would infiltrate France during the nights and fill the AXLE BOXES of some of the cars with sand. The axles were mounted on halves of split bronze bushing in the boxes. The boxes were filled with cotton waste and then they were filled with oil. The wick action of the cotton would wet the lower half of the axle and lubricate the contact area where the bushing rested on the axle as it rotated The Germans would pull out the cotton waste before filling the box with sand. So the lower part of the axle was in contact with oily sand that would lift up to the bronze bushing and this would cause a break down of lubrication causing the axle and box to even get red hot and even catch on fire. His job was to go out with a big bucket of water and with a small hose arrange a siphon of water to the hot box (don't get excited fellows) to keep things cool while the car was slowly pulled back to the shop for repair. Today an axle box would probably be where the roller bearing are mounted that the axle runs on. It is not a box anymore, its a bearing support, part of the truck. Arthur--Mexico City - Original Message - From: mdenning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 7:04 PM Subject: Re: BAGRS Project Loco What is used for the axleboxes on the BAGRS ?? Thanks Michael - Original Message - From: Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DougK Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: BAGRS Project Loco Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug
Re: BAGRS Project Loco
I used ball bearing pressed into the wood sideframes. I wanted as little rolling resistance as possible, as I was informed that the Midwest kit had very little power, and you needed to minimize friction at all costs. The ball bearings work fantastically. Take the cylinder off the crank, and the thing rolls without any provocation. They do the trick. Reports that the single cylinder is underpowered, however, are a touch exagerated. Our midwest loco is geared 7:16--no reduction gear, just a 7 tooth sproket on the crank, and a 16 tooth one on the axle. IT FLIES!!! I found I had to choke the exhaust tube to slow it down. It's got PLENTY of power. The ball bearings certainly don't hurt... Photos and video clips are available here: http://www.mylargescale.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=27875 I may, in the future, switch from a chain drive to a gear drive in the front, so I can reduce the speed. Future plans call for an animated train to run behind, and that will require a bit of power to make happen. (If you were at DH, you'll doubtless recall the myriad suggestions for a proper consist.) Later, K
Re: Off Topic
Well, I guess from previous remarks it does not mean removes grit, grime, and muck. ~ Gary | At 06:16 AM 2/10/05 -0800, you wrote: | So what does displacement mean ? I'm guessing that it must get | between water molecules and whatever the water is in contact with. | | Royce, | That's close enough. | | So how does it do this? | |I have no clue. | | Regards, | Harry |
Re: Off Topic
Hi Geoff! It's great for that! Just be sure it doesn't get on grandfatheras it may take care of him too! Keith - Original Message - From: Geoff Spenceley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 12:03 PM Subject: Re: Off Topic Keith, I use WD40 for weed killer around the track, none ever touches my locos or the grandfather clock! Geoff - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In a different time, I was a gunsmith. In days of old, Blueing was actually Browning, and was accomplished by promoting rust to the exterior finish of a firearm and then steaming the finish, etc., etc.. On the right firearm (or small cannon) it's a really beautiful finish. Hello Trent, I agree with you and Harry as well! I aside from messing with live steam locomotives, also enjoy working on old clocks. I now won't even look at a clock where the owner got it running again by squirting WD into the works! They will take an old clock that has been in an attic where the temps reach well over 100°F amd cooked the oil into a gummy mess, then without taking it apart to properly clean it, will hose it down with WD. This will make the gears move and the clock will run for a day or two, then as dirt clings to the coating of WD that's been slathered on everywhere, it becomes a grinding paste that laps away the pivot points and enlarges the openings in the movement's plates. As the WD turns to an almost glass hard crust and the clock slows down, they will blithly squirt away with yet more WD. After several treatments like this, they will bring the clock to some poor soul saying how they had restored their treasure heirloom and had it running great. But, it has stopped now, and must need something else to make it go. They know it isn't lack of lubrication, because they've used a quart of WD on it already! Like I said, I won't even look at those clocks, not only because the WD is a bear to remove, but mostly because during the time it was there holding the abrasive grains of dirt and mundge in the bearings, it has worn away the pivot holes so you now cannot locate the center to center distances of the clock's wheels and arbors. Nasty stuff, at least around any sort of precision machinery! Keith
Re: Off Topic
Oh, don't forget that it's good for your skin! Yes, I am joking... but I do know of people who have used it almost as a hand lotion. : / I understand it can be a decent cleaner so long as you clean it off with something else like kerosene? I think I'll just stick to Formula 409. : ] Trot, the rarely sure, fox... On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 14:21:29 -0500, Keith Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Geoff! It's great for that! Just be sure it doesn't get on grandfatheras it may take care of him too! Keith - Original Message - From: Geoff Spenceley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Keith, I use WD40 for weed killer around the track, none ever touches my locos or the grandfather clock! Geoff -- | /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember, | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ There is a | \_/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative.
Re: BAGRS Project Loco
- Original Message - From: mdenning [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 4:43 PM Subject: Re: BAGRS Project Loco Could you tell what axle boxes are used? I have the Sulphur Springs kit, it has the axles and wheels but not axleboxes. Thanks Michael Florida USA - Original Message - From: Scott McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:18 PM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Send me you address and I'll send you a copy. Scott DougK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug -- -- Prince William Community Band - http://www.pwcweb.com/pwcb/ Her Majesty's Heralds - http://www.erols.com/diesel/HMHeralds/ Her Majesty's Hounds - http://www.erols.com/diesel/mcdonald/HMHounds Clack Valves Cornets Steam Band - http://www.erols.com/diesel/clack/ __ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
RE: BAGRS Project Loco
The photo link has been repaired (thanks to Vance's discovery). Mike The photos page comes up blank. Are the photos available? Thanks Michael - Original Message - From: Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike
RE: BAGRS Project Loco
Michael, The original used castings from Brandbright Ltd. Their part number RSA2A. They have brass sleeve bushings that work well. The reason I specified them at the time was that they were the only ones available that could be through bolted to the frame without modification. I have seen way too many white metal parts glued to wood with CA and wanted to help people avoid the ensuing disappointment that that approach leads to. An alternate approach would be to use 1 x .064 KS brass strip to fashion some minimalist versions. See: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/alt.htm for an illustration with suggested dimensions. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mdenning Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 5:04 PM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: Re: BAGRS Project Loco What is used for the axleboxes on the BAGRS ?? Thanks Michael - Original Message - From: Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DougK Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: BAGRS Project Loco Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug
Re: Kevins tea pot steamer
Allison is writing an article for Steam in the Garden. It's her loco, after all. ;) It's got a 3-wick alcohol burner of a rather generic design. It *does* fly, though. It tipped off the track at one point, which is what prompted me to choke the exhaust to slow it down a bit. Later, K
Re: BAGRS Project Loco
What is used for the axleboxes on the BAGRS ?? Thanks Michael - Original Message - From: Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DougK Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: BAGRS Project Loco Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug
Re: BAGRS Project Loco
The photos page comes up blank. Are the photos available? Thanks Michael - Original Message - From: Michael Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 1:02 AM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DougK Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: BAGRS Project Loco Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug
RE: BAGRS Project Loco
Mike, I'm glad you decided to put the project loco back online. The new pages look great! I do have to ask how you modeled the chain? I'm hoping you didn't mate each link and that there is some other trick involved!!! Ken Vogel -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Michael Martin Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 11:02 PM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DougK Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: BAGRS Project Loco Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug
Re: BAGRS Project Loco
Could you tell what axle boxes are used? I have the Sulphur Springs kit, it has the axles and wheels but not axleboxes. Thanks Michael Florida USA - Original Message - From: Scott McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 4:18 PM Subject: RE: BAGRS Project Loco Doug, Send me you address and I'll send you a copy. Scott DougK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug -- -- Prince William Community Band - http://www.pwcweb.com/pwcb/ Her Majesty's Heralds - http://www.erols.com/diesel/HMHeralds/ Her Majesty's Hounds - http://www.erols.com/diesel/mcdonald/HMHounds Clack Valves Cornets Steam Band - http://www.erols.com/diesel/clack/ __ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
Re: Off Topic
At 01:36 PM 2/8/05 -0800, you wrote: Does anybody out there know what's in WD-40 ? - royce Royce, I used to . . . but it wasn't important enough to remember for very long. Whatever it is its main quality, and what it was orginally developed for, is water displacement, thus WD. It has virtually no lubricating qualities and very little protective qualities although it certainly does displace moisture. Unless something's been rained on I don't know why anybody bothers to buy the stuff. I have found what is a pretty good (and cheap) short-term lubricant/preservative. It's Pep Boys Super Lubricant. The best general service penetrating preservative for the workshop I've found is CRC 3-36 (#03005). Regards, Harry
Re: sslivesteam-Digest - Number 1343
Royce, If we knew that, we would all be rich like the guy who invented WD-40. It probably has some mixture of Mineral Spirits, Xylene, Toluol, or Benzene, along with a light oil base. Any one of those will remove tape adhesive or at least partially remove it. Keep steamin' Pat Message Number: 1 Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:36:40 -0800 From: Royce Woodbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Off Topic Hi folks. This may be off topic, but since it's been so slow, I thought maybe it wouldn't be objectionable. Does anybody out there know what's in WD-40 ? Specifically, I'm interested in the property that causes tape adhesive to release from whatever it's stuck to. royce --
RE: Off Topic
Don't know what's in WD40 but I buy it by the gallon.. great stuff, right up there with Duct Tape. Daniel J. McGrath From: Royce Woodbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: sslivesteam@colegroup.com To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam sslivesteam@colegroup.com Subject: Off Topic Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 13:36:40 -0800 Hi folks. This may be off topic, but since it's been so slow, I thought maybe it wouldn't be objectionable. Does anybody out there know what's in WD-40 ? Specifically, I'm interested in the property that causes tape adhesive to release from whatever it's stuck to. royce
Re: Off Topic
Royce, There are MSDS at wd40.com Mike Eorgoff -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 2/7/2005
Re: Off Topic
Hello All, I was going to stay out of this conversation, but I second Harry's comments. Bear with me. In a different time, I was a gunsmith. In days of old, Blueing was actually Browning, and was accomplished by promoting rust to the exterior finish of a firearm and then steaming the finish, etc., etc.. On the right firearm (or small cannon) it's a really beautiful finish. When my mentor in the field taught me the process of Browning, he used aerosol type WD-40 to spray the surface. After a short period of time- sometimes within a day or so- rust would start appearing. He said that without the WD-40, the process was prolonged and the rust coverage would not be nearly as uniform. I never doubted him, and never once deviated from the practice. At my job as a gunsmith, I regularly encountered firearms who's owners had used WD-40 on them for *misguided* lubrication obtained from the back of the can, or sometimes in attempt of a quick cleaning. Everything had a gummy, tacky, varnish on it that was very difficult to remove. In my opinion, avoid WD-40 period. I've personally never seen a real use for it. A perfect example of good marketing. If you need a lubricant, use a real lubricant. If you need a cleaner, use a real cleaner. The CRC products are well engineered, as is the STIHL Penetrating Oil. I get the STIHL product from my local chainsaw shop. Later, Trent Quoting Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 01:36 PM 2/8/05 -0800, you wrote: Does anybody out there know what's in WD-40 ? - royce Royce, I used to . . . but it wasn't important enough to remember for very long. Whatever it is its main quality, and what it was orginally developed for, is water displacement, thus WD. It has virtually no lubricating qualities and very little protective qualities although it certainly does displace moisture. Unless something's been rained on I don't know why anybody bothers to buy the stuff. I have found what is a pretty good (and cheap) short-term lubricant/preservative. It's Pep Boys Super Lubricant. The best general service penetrating preservative for the workshop I've found is CRC 3-36 (#03005). Regards, Harry -1wners had used WD-40 on them for *misguided* lubrication obtained from the back of the can, or sometimes in attempt of a quick cleaning. Everything had a gummy, tacky, varnish on it that was very difficult to remove. In my opinion, avoid WD-40 period. I've personally never seen a real use for it. A perfect example of good marketing. If you need a lubricant, use a real lubricant. If you need a cleaner, use a real cleaner. The CRC products are well engineered, as is the STIHL Penetrating Oil. I get the STIHL product from my local chainsaw shop. Later, Trent Quoting Harry Wade [EMAIL PROTECTED]: At 01:36 PM 2/8/05 -0800, you wrote: Does anybody out there know what's in WD-40 ? - royce Royce, I used to . . . but it wasn't important enough to remember for very long. Whatever it is its main quality, and what it was orginally developed for, is water displacement, thus WD. It has virtually no lubricating qualities and very little protective qualities although it certainly does displace moisture. Unless something's been rained on I don't know why anybody bothers to buy the stuff. I have found what is a pretty good (and cheap) short-term lubricant/preservative. It's Pep Boys Super Lubricant. The best general service penetrating preservative for the workshop I've found is CRC 3-36 (#03005). Regards, Harry This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
Re: Ruby pony truck
Vance, If you get a responce I'd like to see it myself. I wonder if they have a better way than what I did... Trot, the complex, fox... On Wed, 09 Feb 2005 21:13:32 -0700, Vance Bass [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Ruby owners, Could I ask one of you who owns a Ruby 2-4-2 and a digital camera to do me a favor, please? I would like to see how Accucraft attaches their pony truck under the cab of the loco. If you would be kind enough to shoot a photo from below and send it to me, I would be most grateful. Thanks! best regards, -Vance- Vance Bass FHPB Railroad Supply Co. 6933 Cherry Hills Loop NE Albuquerque, NM 87111 USA http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/fhpb/ -- | /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember, | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ There is a | \_/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative.
RE: BAGRS Project Loco
Doug, Send me you address and I'll send you a copy. Scott DougK [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug -- -- Prince William Community Band - http://www.pwcweb.com/pwcb/ Her Majesty's Heralds - http://www.erols.com/diesel/HMHeralds/ Her Majesty's Hounds - http://www.erols.com/diesel/mcdonald/HMHounds Clack Valves Cornets Steam Band - http://www.erols.com/diesel/clack/ __ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
Re: burner problems
Bert. Thanks for that summary - could be very useful. Jim Gregg. At 09:07 AM 2/7/2005 -0800, you wrote: I put a question about double burner problems out a couple of weeks or so ago. I received many answers, further info was obtained at the Sinsheim exhibition in Germany. Many of the answers came from several people the contributors were numerous. Thank you all. We have managed to solve the problems on three engines, and defined definitely the problems on others which have been solved in the meantime. I thought a list of the possible problems and the suggested answers may be some help. One other point we have noticed is that the engines with a safety valve on the gas tank can cause some excitement. Especially if one blows off while an alcohol burner is passing and the coal load is not fitted over the gas tank. The flame can exceed 6 feet! and be very hot. Needless to say mine has been replaced by a screw. 1) The 2 burner engines have a large gas tank. Filling the tank causes the temperature to drop. So fill the gas tank first allowing it to warm up a little while oiling and watering the engine. Starting on a frozen tank is not optimal. No problems in CA,NE,AZ etc. but in northern states and other northerly countries it can cost nerves. 2) If only one burner goes out first turn the burner over so that the jet now burns in the other flue. If the same jet goes out it is probably a dirty jet. 3) Take the burner out of the fire tube have someone hold it carefully. Gently just crack the gas valve and light both burners. If one is a larger flame than the other the chances are that it is a dirty jet. Remove and clean the jet. Repeat the test afterwards to ensure that both flames are the same. Replace, and fire up the engine. 4) If the problem has not been solved check the metal pipe-bends to each burner. If one has a kink in it put the right jet in the left side and the left jet in the right side, If the problem remains it probably indicates a restriction of the gas flow. Replace the manifold. 5) If all this is ok but one fire still goes out, check with a little more gas pressure to the burners. Being used to single flue engines we tend to keep the fire at a minimum. In a double flue engine this has proved to be oft the cause of fire out on one burner. 6) If the problem still persists the next possibility is the flexible gas connection from tender gas tank to engine. It could be that if the engine is close coupled this could knick and reduce the gas flow in spite if the metal which should prevent this from happening. Reduce the length, keeping an eye on the flex-pipe in curves. It may be that this tube is to long as some engines have proved. 7) If the problem is still there check the gas tank temperature. Here hot water is the old stand by. However help can be found by taking the coal boards out of the front of the tender (surgery on most engines) and the warm air being forced backwards out of the cab by the forwards travel is now pressed into the tender. Make sure there is a space behind the coal load to let the air out inducing a flow of air. This is important. Regner do a steam heated gas tank! A second small gas tank in the cob near the boiler is also a suggestion. 8) We have now checked all of the easy points but the problem is still there. We have noticed an American manufacturer has not placed his jets uniformly in the burners. By that I mean that most burners have the jet level with the air holes. That is the jet just can be seen at the jet side of the air hole. These engines seem to be free from problems. However engines with the jet some distance form the air holes still have the problem in most cases. Talk to the manufacturer about this one. Ask him for a dimension to work to. It is after all an expensive quality product. 9) Some improvements have been reported by increasing the diameter of the air holes from 6mm to 7 mm. Some have changed burners from slit (toast rack) burners to burners having three rows of holes on an 8mm diameter burner as apposed to the 10 mm burner where used the theory here is that the 100mm burners are to large in dia. etc. This requires some experience and these persons are experienced enough to know what they are doing. Replacing the gas volume valve with a gas pressure regulator (Cheddar) can reduce the effects of a cooling tank and reduce to some extent the tendency to freeze. 10) If your jet blocks regularly change the gas brand and wash out your gas tank carefully. Thanks again to all contributors. If there is something I have missed please inform me so I can extend the list. Bert - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: BAGRS Project Loco
Doug, Check out: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/drive.htm for drivetrain info, and: http://www.panyo.com/bpe/photos.htm for overall views, and finally: http://www.panyo.com/cad/ for the drawings. Mike -Original Message- From: sslivesteam@colegroup.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DougK Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2005 10:23 AM To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam Subject: BAGRS Project Loco Does anyone have photos, plans, instructions, or parts list for the BAGRS project loco from several years ago? Thanks, Doug
Re: No mail received!
Hi Bert. I think it has been pretty light, but we've been having computer changeover problems, so I can't be certain. Jim Gregg Australia At 09:22 AM 2/6/2005 +0100, you wrote: To all Has no-one posted anything in the last 10 days or am I getting left out? If so how do I get back on the list? Bert - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re[2]: No mail received!
Hello Jim, Thanks for your reassurance. (It must be in the middle of the night down there!) Did you know that a good percentage of my mail from particularly the U.S. comes via Australia if we forget to add Europe to the address. (There are no kangaroos in Austria)was at one point an add for Austria in foreign countries. Have good one Bert in AUSTRIA ( - Bert Edmunda [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: No mail received!
i have kept checking but the system seems to be working ok ... just nobody interested in live steam anymore ... :-( ... \dmc -- ^^^ Dave Cole Gen'l Sup't: Grand Teton Everglades Steam Excursion Co. Pacifica, Calif. USA http://45mm.com/ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List Mom: sslivesteam, the list of small-scale live steamers http://45mm.com/sslivesteam/lists/ ATTEND THE NATIONAL SUMMER STEAMUP IN SACRAMENTO, JULY 20-24, 2005 For more information, visit the web site at http://www.summersteamup.com ^^^
