Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
A manager I worked with said he standardised everything so work could be de-skilled cheap staff used.Then the fun part was finding the experts who can be more productive if they deviate from the standard procedures. THis was a was non IT manager but the same applies for IT I think. I saw a report that showed that support of large windows apps was more expensive than anything else, this causes the movement to standardize. But it really applies to junior developers users of apps. I worked at a place where every dev. PC was different, the staff were mostly beginners making all PC's the same was beneficial. But we had the rule if your PC was non-standard you got bottom priority support, it was your choice. We were lenient with people we felt were learning fast so we shouldn't stifle their creativity. --- Chappell, Simon P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = ~~ Search the archive:- http://www.mail-archive.com/struts-user%40jakarta.apache.org/ ~~ Keith Bacon - Looking for struts work - South-East UK. phone UK 07960 011275 __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
man, you are ancient. i bet i was in diapers when you did that. ;) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:10 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Never had the chance to play with one of those. My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course back then the PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support their platform back in those days... uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh... I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on which I learnt good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;- -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
I fear that you may not be far from the truth, although I keep young by virtue of a very young wife. :-) When I was teaching myself C, I was using it for my final year thesis and there were no professors, TA's or even other students that knew it and this was before the WWW was invented, so it was me and my faithful copy of KR and LOTS of naughty words. -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:12 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE man, you are ancient. i bet i was in diapers when you did that. ;) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:10 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
I had a BBC too. Man, those were good machines. Virtually unbreakable, kind of the Land Rover of computers. Before that I had used an Acorn Atom and let's not forget the Ol' Sinclair ZX80 and the ZX81. For their time, they were great machines. Today I have a Mac, and it is truly a great machine for it's time. :-) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Never had the chance to play with one of those. My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course back then the PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support their platform back in those days... uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh... I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on which I learnt good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;- -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Yep. Still got mine. Use it to play Zalaga and Elite occasionaly (or did till the (3rd last) monitor developed a smoke leak). Luckily most of the other old games run fine on the emulator... :-) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:23 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE I had a BBC too. Man, those were good machines. Virtually unbreakable, kind of the Land Rover of computers. Before that I had used an Acorn Atom and let's not forget the Ol' Sinclair ZX80 and the ZX81. For their time, they were great machines. Today I have a Mac, and it is truly a great machine for it's time. :-) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Never had the chance to play with one of those. My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course back then the PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support their platform back in those days... uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh... I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on which I learnt good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;- -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
I learnt it for fun. I was still in high school and had wild ambitions of writing great computer games. K R of course, and a copy of the 1.3 Amiga Rom Kernal Manuals which cost me many months pocket money - not half as much as my folks paid to get me the Lattice C compiler for my birthday though... Only ever did finish one game - a rip-off of Repton on the BBC, but with lots more objects, bigger maps, (much) slower refresh rate (despite running on a much more powerful platform!) worse graphics - well actually some gfx in it werent half bad - oh how I miss Deluxe Paint II nowdays! (Miss evil C pointer manipulations too, but thats another story ;-) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:20 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE I fear that you may not be far from the truth, although I keep young by virtue of a very young wife. :-) When I was teaching myself C, I was using it for my final year thesis and there were no professors, TA's or even other students that knew it and this was before the WWW was invented, so it was me and my faithful copy of KR and LOTS of naughty words. -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:12 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE man, you are ancient. i bet i was in diapers when you did that. ;) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:10 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
I learned BASIC on my C-64 and C on my Mac 512 (upgraded to a Plus). I still have a Mac IIsi, a Centris 610, and two Imacs, along with a half-dozen Wintel machines. Nevertheless, the Video Toaster on the Amiga rocked! Mark -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 9:23 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE I had a BBC too. Man, those were good machines. Virtually unbreakable, kind of the Land Rover of computers. Before that I had used an Acorn Atom and let's not forget the Ol' Sinclair ZX80 and the ZX81. For their time, they were great machines. Today I have a Mac, and it is truly a great machine for it's time. :-) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Never had the chance to play with one of those. My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course back then the PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support their platform back in those days... uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh... I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on which I learnt good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;- -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Andrew, can we talk offline about getting a Beeb emulator going for me, so that I can relive my Elite playing days? -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:30 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Yep. Still got mine. Use it to play Zalaga and Elite occasionaly (or did till the (3rd last) monitor developed a smoke leak). Luckily most of the other old games run fine on the emulator... :-) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:23 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE I had a BBC too. Man, those were good machines. Virtually unbreakable, kind of the Land Rover of computers. Before that I had used an Acorn Atom and let's not forget the Ol' Sinclair ZX80 and the ZX81. For their time, they were great machines. Today I have a Mac, and it is truly a great machine for it's time. :-) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 8:18 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Never had the chance to play with one of those. My teenage geek arguments were always Amiga vs Mac. Of course back then the PC proles I knew couldn't muster up an argument to support their platform back in those days... uh... its got 640k and ummm yeh... I learnt C on the Amy, but my first love was a BBC Micro on which I learnt good old fashioned BASIC - Way better than the C64 too... ;- -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 22:10 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE If it was Friday, then I would ignite a flamefest by pointing out that I quite liked the Atari ST. My ST was the machine that I learned C programming on and I still have a soft spot for the old thing. Simon -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE :-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Quoting Daniel H. F. e Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hi all, I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't search on archives (why is this resource disabled?). I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop Web-based solutions in J2EE platform. And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs: Netbeans and Eclipse. I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool JSP editor like Netbeans. That's true, even tough refactoring features and plugins for struts code generation outweight it. Last week I checked out Intellij Idea and it has great jsp editing support like struts tags completion, also it looks like it's more lightweight than Eclipse or Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than Netbeans offered features. But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than Netbeans. So, opinions? Eclipse is probably the best you can get for free. Best regards, Daniel. PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Here is a pointer to an intensive management training program that may work for them: http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/the_characters/index.html#boss Andrew HillTo: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: (bcc: Kevin Bedell/Systems/USHO/SunLife) m Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) 01/21/2003 09:40 AM Please respond to Struts Users Mailing List So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] --- This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary , confidential and exempt from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and erase this e-mail message immediately. --- -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Similar things going on where I am at. It's to be expected when you work for the military. :) (I work with highly insensitive materials, however at night I'm a secret agent. The two aren't related.) It's mostly a lot of talk though. You will use that and you will not use anything else. It never holds up because the bottom line is that the work needs to get done. It's such a pain to get commercial software (still waiting on IDEA), the free stuff is a no-brainer, go download it. I'm using netbeans, ant, tomcat, struts, junit, etc, even though none of these products have been blessed, they are all kicking a lot of ass. Standards are important, but not so much that you have to cram them down everyone's throats. Standardized methodologies, i.e., these are our techniques for analysing and designing, and we use versioning control and we test our code, are much more valuable than forcing developers to use a particular toolset. At one time their was talk of us being told we have to use JDeveloper. What a nightmare that would have been. However, I draw the line at what MP3 player people use. In my office, it's Winamp, or no music, no debate. L8r, Dave -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Waaa ! It took us 2 years to come to struts + log4j. I'm trying to promote tomcat and eclipse as test/development platform... for 2004 ? Perhaps Linux and PostgreSQL in 2020. Nico. Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Oh and I forgot to add Ant, Log4J, Cactus and Scarab. Life is grand when most people don't have a clue what the hell you are doing. -Original Message- From: Nicolas De Loof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:00 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Waaa ! It took us 2 years to come to struts + log4j. I'm trying to promote tomcat and eclipse as test/development platform... for 2004 ? Perhaps Linux and PostgreSQL in 2020. Nico. Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
I agree, that working in the dark corners churning out working code is the best way to silence management and that's what I try to do. I'm just dispairing about the fact that management think that their actions are necessary. I'm a known corporate rebel anyway and I install whatever I want on my machine. Sometimes I get in trouble for it, especially Struts, but then after management has it's screaming fit, they come around to seeing that I was right. Other than being directed by my manager to send out apology emails now and then, it's almost fun. BTW: Winamp sucks, try Music Match Jukebox if you use a Windows box, otherwise iTunes rocks! (I love my Mac! :-) Simon -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Oh and I forgot to add Ant, Log4J, Cactus and Scarab. Life is grand when most people don't have a clue what the hell you are doing. -Original Message- From: Nicolas De Loof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:00 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Waaa ! It took us 2 years to come to struts + log4j. I'm trying to promote tomcat and eclipse as test/development platform... for 2004 ? Perhaps Linux and PostgreSQL in 2020. Nico. Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL
Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote: My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? If he wants productivity then let the developers use the tools they are familiar with. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
-Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote: My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? If he wants productivity then let the developers use the tools they are familiar with. You are so right, but also so not going to get that. Sorry. See the Standardised Environments thread for this very point. Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
That's why you could never work in my office. It's Winamp or the road. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:12 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I agree, that working in the dark corners churning out working code is the best way to silence management and that's what I try to do. I'm just dispairing about the fact that management think that their actions are necessary. I'm a known corporate rebel anyway and I install whatever I want on my machine. Sometimes I get in trouble for it, especially Struts, but then after management has it's screaming fit, they come around to seeing that I was right. Other than being directed by my manager to send out apology emails now and then, it's almost fun. BTW: Winamp sucks, try Music Match Jukebox if you use a Windows box, otherwise iTunes rocks! (I love my Mac! :-) Simon -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:04 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Oh and I forgot to add Ant, Log4J, Cactus and Scarab. Life is grand when most people don't have a clue what the hell you are doing. -Original Message- From: Nicolas De Loof [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:00 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Waaa ! It took us 2 years to come to struts + log4j. I'm trying to promote tomcat and eclipse as test/development platform... for 2004 ? Perhaps Linux and PostgreSQL in 2020. Nico. Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
I second this. Different people work in different ways; standardizing an IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like, they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing productivity. *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can use whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and passes the unit tests. I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to take away Vim I would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea. Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like the fact that I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And it can do regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me married to Vim right now. -= J -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote: My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? If he wants productivity then let the developers use the tools they are familiar with. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
-Original Message- From: Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:19 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) That's why you could never work in my office. It's Winamp or the road. Your loss! :-P -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Wow...that is quite a transition. I'm curious to know if these changes were met with alot of opposition? How long did it take? Vinh -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my opinion. as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were outnumbered. my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi plugin. then the circle would really be complete. -Original Message- From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Wow...that is quite a transition. I'm curious to know if these changes were met with alot of opposition? How long did it take? Vinh -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
What about management? I'm sure they liked the idea of saving alot of money. But how did they respond to open source solutions? -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:28 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my opinion. as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were outnumbered. my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi plugin. then the circle would really be complete. -Original Message- From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Wow...that is quite a transition. I'm curious to know if these changes were met with alot of opposition? How long did it take? Vinh -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
The IDE is important to the developer, but not to the team. Therefore the developer should pick their own IDE. The build system is important to the team, so the team should pick the build system. The Source Code Management system is important to the company, so let the company pick the SCM. I have no objection to standards that help a given situation, but standards don't help when they are used like duct tape to bind your hands. I actually prefer to use text editors instead of IDE's, but if the developer in the next cube wants to use an IDE, then that is fine. As long as they produce good code that meets the project need and passes it's unit tests, what do I care how it was brought into being. Simon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B. If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes it easier for administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so on: Just think about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses Eclipse which has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the Newbie-Coder comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of setting up your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of one... --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20 Von: James Childers [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers I second this. Different people work in different ways; standardizing an IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like, they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing productivity. *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can use whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and passes the unit tests. I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to take away Vim I would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea. Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like the fact that I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And it can do regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me married to Vim right now. -= J -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote: My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? If he wants productivity then let the developers use the tools they are familiar with. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Typically management worry about not having someone to blame if there is a problem. My own manager was asking who we would have recourse against (is this a polite way of saying Sue them into the ground?) if there was a problem with the Struts code. I told him that there was the ASF, but that there is an explicit no warranty clause in the Apache licence. He wasn't keen to hear that. Money is usually a very small factor in the issue. Simon -Original Message- From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:43 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) What about management? I'm sure they liked the idea of saving alot of money. But how did they respond to open source solutions? -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:28 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my opinion. as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were outnumbered. my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi plugin. then the circle would really be complete. -Original Message- From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Wow...that is quite a transition. I'm curious to know if these changes were met with alot of opposition? How long did it take? Vinh -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Daniel, Eclipse is much faster than Netbeans, in my opinion, and is not as much of a memory hog as Netbeans is. If you select the right plug-ins, Eclipse is an excellent IDE for all J2EE development EXCEPT JSP pages. We use Eclipse here for everything (EJB, Java Beans, servlets) BUT JSP development, and use Macromedia Dreamweaver MX for the JSP development. Dreamweaver MX has the ability to pull in external tag libraries into the IDE, and will enable code completion for those tag libraries inside of it's IDE. So when I incorporated the Struts logic, HTML, and bean tag libraries into Dreamweaver, the code completion for those tags is enabled for our JSP developers. HTML layout/design is also much simpler in Dreamweaver, as long as you stay away from the wizards that are included in Dreamweaver (adds too much extraneous code into the HTML). Hopefully, the HTML and JSP development features of Eclipse will be improved soon. Celeste -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE Hi all, I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't search on archives (why is this resource disabled?). I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop Web-based solutions in J2EE platform. And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs: Netbeans and Eclipse. I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than Netbeans offered features. But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than Netbeans. So, opinions? Best regards, Daniel. PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
The beauty of open-source: if there is a problem with the Struts code, open up the source, fix it, and submit the patch. Everyone benefits. Jerry -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:44 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Typically management worry about not having someone to blame if there is a problem. My own manager was asking who we would have recourse against (is this a polite way of saying Sue them into the ground?) if there was a problem with the Struts code. I told him that there was the ASF, but that there is an explicit no warranty clause in the Apache licence. He wasn't keen to hear that. Money is usually a very small factor in the issue. Simon -Original Message- From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:43 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) What about management? I'm sure they liked the idea of saving alot of money. But how did they respond to open source solutions? -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:28 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my opinion. as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were outnumbered. my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi plugin. then the circle would really be complete. -Original Message- From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Wow...that is quite a transition. I'm curious to know if these changes were met with alot of opposition? How long did it take? Vinh -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
This isn't about expressing your individuality, it's about doing what makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write code, and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all means use it. As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough to troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well should be. Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able to use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing standards. In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work environment for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some like directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it doesn't matter*. -= J PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use their own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B. If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes it easier for administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so on: Just think about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses Eclipse which has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the Newbie-Coder comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of setting up your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of one... --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20 Von: James Childers [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers I second this. Different people work in different ways; standardizing an IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like, they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing productivity. *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can use whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and passes the unit tests. I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to take away Vim I would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea. Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like the fact that I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And it can do regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me married to Vim right now. -= J -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote: My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? If he wants productivity then let the developers use the tools they are familiar with. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
That's not an opinion it's a fact. Netbeans is based on Swing which is slow as molasses. Check your OS's memory monitor to see the difference (about 30 MB). Click on a Netbeans menu and you can feel the unresponsiveness. David From: Haseltine, Celeste [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:39:19 -0600 Daniel, Eclipse is much faster than Netbeans, in my opinion, and is not as much of a memory hog as Netbeans is. If you select the right plug-ins, Eclipse is an excellent IDE for all J2EE development EXCEPT JSP pages. We use Eclipse here for everything (EJB, Java Beans, servlets) BUT JSP development, and use Macromedia Dreamweaver MX for the JSP development. Dreamweaver MX has the ability to pull in external tag libraries into the IDE, and will enable code completion for those tag libraries inside of it's IDE. So when I incorporated the Struts logic, HTML, and bean tag libraries into Dreamweaver, the code completion for those tags is enabled for our JSP developers. HTML layout/design is also much simpler in Dreamweaver, as long as you stay away from the wizards that are included in Dreamweaver (adds too much extraneous code into the HTML). Hopefully, the HTML and JSP development features of Eclipse will be improved soon. Celeste -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE Hi all, I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't search on archives (why is this resource disabled?). I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop Web-based solutions in J2EE platform. And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs: Netbeans and Eclipse. I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than Netbeans offered features. But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than Netbeans. So, opinions? Best regards, Daniel. PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Then what's the way Idea works? It is supposed to be fast. Which widget family does it use? This e-mail is intended only for the above addressee. It may contain privileged information. If you are not the addressee you must not copy, distribute, disclose or use any of the information in it. If you have received it in error please delete it and immediately notify the sender. Security Notice: all e-mail, sent to or from this address, may be accessed by someone other than the recipient, for system management and security reasons. This access is controlled under Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, Lawful Business Practises. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
The saving money ploy goes a long way. The only thing they had objections to were Support issues. But when they saw the wonderful WebShpere support we got, they realized there was no point in paying to get service. Additionally, at the time that we made these changes we got a CIO who is a tech guy and was very supportive of these changes. The money thing was still the clincher. -Original Message- From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:43 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) What about management? I'm sure they liked the idea of saving alot of money. But how did they respond to open source solutions? -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:28 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) most of the process took about 6 months, which isn't bad at all in my opinion. as far as opposition is concered, we got some from the chronologically challenged members of the team but alas, they were outnumbered. my only wish is that jEdit would improve its vi plugin. then the circle would really be complete. -Original Message- From: Vinh Tran [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Wow...that is quite a transition. I'm curious to know if these changes were met with alot of opposition? How long did it take? Vinh -Original Message- From: Pani, Gourav [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:51 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Suddenly my life doesn't look so bad. :) When I first started working for my company we were using Websphere Application Server, Websphere Application Developer, Oracle/DB2 on Unix servers. Now we use Struts, Apache, Resin, jEdit, SAPDB/POSTGRESQL/MySQL on Red Hat Linux. Not bad. -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
One of the reasons I left the T-Mobile project was because the client was incredibly anal-retentive about the most trivial crap. As I always say, Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff. Death to cube farms and ties! Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
Im surprised sich developers have jobs in todays market. Surely there must be a glut of more experienced developers that can be obtained at the same price? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked things like: What do you mean with Transaction?, Huh, why a database *and* an applicationserver?. And if you ask them for their favourite tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better ones have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more productive they stick to paperpencil. I understand them, if you start there, there is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what they tell them... --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48 Von: James Childers [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers This isn't about expressing your individuality, it's about doing what makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write code, and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all means use it. As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough to troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well should be. Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able to use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing standards. In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work environment for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some like directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it doesn't matter*. -= J PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use their own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B. If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes it easier for administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so on: Just think about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses Eclipse which has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the Newbie-Coder comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of setting up your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of one... --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20 Von: James Childers [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers I second this. Different people work in different ways; standardizing an IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like, they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing productivity. *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can use whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and passes the unit tests. I use Eclipse and Vim, primarily. If management tried to take away Vim I would have to tell them to... well... You get the idea. Speaking of which, I've been tinkering with IDEA lately, and it looks quite promising. Tight, and as fast as Eclipse. Plus I like the fact that I can do everything within it without using the keyboard. And it can do regexp search and replaces, which is one of the main things keeping me married to Vim right now. -= J -Original Message- From: Alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:16 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote: My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Simon, How in the world can you lock down a developers machine? Not only is that non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the staff would be spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin password on their machine, just to remove the lock (for Windows only operating systems, of course). You must have a separate IT support department that is on a power trip trying to control the IT development groups machines. Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my work in it while looking for another job. Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Celeste, With Windows 2000, it is very possible to lock down a machine. Now, it is also hackable, but that would be against policy and therefore a punishable by dismissal offence. It is a huge drag on productivity and this has been pointed out and rejected. So, let them manage the developers however they wish. My personal laptop and I will continue to be productive. If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-) Simon -Original Message- From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:13 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Simon, How in the world can you lock down a developers machine? Not only is that non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the staff would be spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin password on their machine, just to remove the lock (for Windows only operating systems, of course). You must have a separate IT support department that is on a power trip trying to control the IT development groups machines. Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my work in it while looking for another job. Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
snip Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now) /snip As opposed to Andrew who expresses his in-duh-viduality by wearing a jacket in a tropical climate when his colleagues wear t-shirts... ;-) -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:18 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) One of the reasons I left the T-Mobile project was because the client was incredibly anal-retentive about the most trivial crap. As I always say, Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff. Death to cube farms and ties! Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
That doesn't make you an individual, that makes you a sick puppy. -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:25 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) snip Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now) /snip As opposed to Andrew who expresses his in-duh-viduality by wearing a jacket in a tropical climate when his colleagues wear t-shirts... ;-) -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:18 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) One of the reasons I left the T-Mobile project was because the client was incredibly anal-retentive about the most trivial crap. As I always say, Don't sweat the petty stuff, and don't pet the sweaty stuff. Death to cube farms and ties! Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:45 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I wear jeans. (Although I do buy them from the company at a very reasonable discount) -Original Message- From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:40 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) So, do you have to pay for your own uniforms, or does the company supply them? -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 22:31 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How difficult is this kind of task? Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:struts-user-[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Simon, To my knowledge, on Windows 2000, you can put people into roles, such as Admin, User, etc. This will limit the user's ability to install software, but if you can guess the admins password successfully, then you just add yourself into the Admin role on the machine, and your home free. In fact, there is software out there that does just that, as my young (21 year old) network admin has advised me of. We have had several people in the company (non development staff) use that same software to install KaZaa and/or Morpheus, thereby bypassing the User lock on their machines. I have no problem if people use their machines after business hours to download large files, but during business hours, it ties up the bandwidth we need to conduct business. By the way, how is your staff going to be able to start/stop your local version of the application server on their dev boxes? We use JRUN 4.0 here, and it requires you to be in the admin role on the machine to be able to start/stop the server on your local machine for development purposes. And we use an Eclipse plug in for JRUN to start/stop the server, debug, and to compile our JSP pages down to servlets. None of that would be possible on the local developers machine if we moved their login to simply a User role, vs the Admin role. Perhaps if you look closer at what each developer needs access to in order to do his/her job, then you could make a case for leaving the development staff in the Admin role on their machines. Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:26 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Celeste, With Windows 2000, it is very possible to lock down a machine. Now, it is also hackable, but that would be against policy and therefore a punishable by dismissal offence. It is a huge drag on productivity and this has been pointed out and rejected. So, let them manage the developers however they wish. My personal laptop and I will continue to be productive. If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-) Simon -Original Message- From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:13 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Simon, How in the world can you lock down a developers machine? Not only is that non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the staff would be spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin password on their machine, just to remove the lock (for Windows only operating systems, of course). You must have a separate IT support department that is on a power trip trying to control the IT development groups machines. Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my work in it while looking for another job. Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going to be part of the new locked down standard! Gotta laugh. Simon -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:39 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Hi all, I do appreciate all feedback posted here in this list. Well, i am only executing orders. I don't intend to obligate everybody to adopt my recomendations. My boss wants a standard environment to all developers. So, order is order. I think his concern about this task is to improve productivity. So, what is more productive? Following our discussion, does someone have experience writing Eclipse plugins? How
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Celeste, Actually, I do have full rights to my machine. You should see the list of non-approved software on here! :-D Concerning starting and stopping services, we will have a development server to publish to so that we don't need that ability on our workstations. I have very strongly represented that this approach is so far below sub-optimal that it isn't funny, but management still want everything locked down. Simon -Original Message- From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:39 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Simon, To my knowledge, on Windows 2000, you can put people into roles, such as Admin, User, etc. This will limit the user's ability to install software, but if you can guess the admins password successfully, then you just add yourself into the Admin role on the machine, and your home free. In fact, there is software out there that does just that, as my young (21 year old) network admin has advised me of. We have had several people in the company (non development staff) use that same software to install KaZaa and/or Morpheus, thereby bypassing the User lock on their machines. I have no problem if people use their machines after business hours to download large files, but during business hours, it ties up the bandwidth we need to conduct business. By the way, how is your staff going to be able to start/stop your local version of the application server on their dev boxes? We use JRUN 4.0 here, and it requires you to be in the admin role on the machine to be able to start/stop the server on your local machine for development purposes. And we use an Eclipse plug in for JRUN to start/stop the server, debug, and to compile our JSP pages down to servlets. None of that would be possible on the local developers machine if we moved their login to simply a User role, vs the Admin role. Perhaps if you look closer at what each developer needs access to in order to do his/her job, then you could make a case for leaving the development staff in the Admin role on their machines. Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:26 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Celeste, With Windows 2000, it is very possible to lock down a machine. Now, it is also hackable, but that would be against policy and therefore a punishable by dismissal offence. It is a huge drag on productivity and this has been pointed out and rejected. So, let them manage the developers however they wish. My personal laptop and I will continue to be productive. If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-) Simon -Original Message- From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:13 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Simon, How in the world can you lock down a developers machine? Not only is that non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the staff would be spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin password on their machine, just to remove the lock (for Windows only operating systems, of course). You must have a separate IT support department that is on a power trip trying to control the IT development groups machines. Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my work in it while looking for another job. Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity. Anyone else out there going through this or have advice to share? I am planning to bring my personal laptop to work to do any of my tinkering on. I like to think that my tinkering is helpful to the company, but you wouldn't think so from these new policies. This past year, I have introduced to the company's IS environment four new tools that I evaluated by tinkering with in those downtimes between projects. Specifically, these tools are Struts (hey, you know I like Struts! :-), ant, junit and Cygwin. The funny thing, to me, is that these tools evaluated by tinkering are going
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Wow. Sounds like you have issues of controlling egos entering into the equation. At this point I would just throw my hands up and start looking around. IMHO, ego is the number one cause of project failures: the unspoken subtext is We have to do it this way because I said so. If we don't, it will make me look bad. Therefore, I will fight like mad to do things this way, no matter what. There is no more certain recipe for failure than this. -= J -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:55 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Celeste, Actually, I do have full rights to my machine. You should see the list of non-approved software on here! :-D Concerning starting and stopping services, we will have a development server to publish to so that we don't need that ability on our workstations. I have very strongly represented that this approach is so far below sub-optimal that it isn't funny, but management still want everything locked down. Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
True, but I'm still here because of geo-relegious* reasons and that makes up and moving off difficult. This means that I need to stay in the arena and keep swinging the sword of common sense, among others, for a while yet. Simon * I am assisting in the startup of a United Pentecostal Church in Dodgeville (I'm a lay preacher) and it's awfully hard to fulfill such a calling living anywhere else, and my employer is the only game in town for geeks unless I drive long'ish distances. -Original Message- From: James Childers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:02 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Wow. Sounds like you have issues of controlling egos entering into the equation. At this point I would just throw my hands up and start looking around. IMHO, ego is the number one cause of project failures: the unspoken subtext is We have to do it this way because I said so. If we don't, it will make me look bad. Therefore, I will fight like mad to do things this way, no matter what. There is no more certain recipe for failure than this. -= J -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:55 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Celeste, Actually, I do have full rights to my machine. You should see the list of non-approved software on here! :-D Concerning starting and stopping services, we will have a development server to publish to so that we don't need that ability on our workstations. I have very strongly represented that this approach is so far below sub-optimal that it isn't funny, but management still want everything locked down. Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Good luck Simon. Personally, when a management team begins to make really silly, non-productive decisions like the one you mentioned, I start looking around for another position, discretely, of course. Things like that just make doing your job that much harder, and really impact the atmosphere and productivity of the work environment. Best of luck to you Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:55 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Celeste, Actually, I do have full rights to my machine. You should see the list of non-approved software on here! :-D Concerning starting and stopping services, we will have a development server to publish to so that we don't need that ability on our workstations. I have very strongly represented that this approach is so far below sub-optimal that it isn't funny, but management still want everything locked down. Simon -Original Message- From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:39 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Simon, To my knowledge, on Windows 2000, you can put people into roles, such as Admin, User, etc. This will limit the user's ability to install software, but if you can guess the admins password successfully, then you just add yourself into the Admin role on the machine, and your home free. In fact, there is software out there that does just that, as my young (21 year old) network admin has advised me of. We have had several people in the company (non development staff) use that same software to install KaZaa and/or Morpheus, thereby bypassing the User lock on their machines. I have no problem if people use their machines after business hours to download large files, but during business hours, it ties up the bandwidth we need to conduct business. By the way, how is your staff going to be able to start/stop your local version of the application server on their dev boxes? We use JRUN 4.0 here, and it requires you to be in the admin role on the machine to be able to start/stop the server on your local machine for development purposes. And we use an Eclipse plug in for JRUN to start/stop the server, debug, and to compile our JSP pages down to servlets. None of that would be possible on the local developers machine if we moved their login to simply a User role, vs the Admin role. Perhaps if you look closer at what each developer needs access to in order to do his/her job, then you could make a case for leaving the development staff in the Admin role on their machines. Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:26 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Celeste, With Windows 2000, it is very possible to lock down a machine. Now, it is also hackable, but that would be against policy and therefore a punishable by dismissal offence. It is a huge drag on productivity and this has been pointed out and rejected. So, let them manage the developers however they wish. My personal laptop and I will continue to be productive. If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-) Simon -Original Message- From: Haseltine, Celeste [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 10:13 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Simon, How in the world can you lock down a developers machine? Not only is that non-productive in my opinion, but I suspect that half the staff would be spending some of their time trying to figure out the admin password on their machine, just to remove the lock (for Windows only operating systems, of course). You must have a separate IT support department that is on a power trip trying to control the IT development groups machines. Like you, I would be bringing in my own laptop, and doing my work in it while looking for another job. Celeste -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 8:31 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Our management (I won't say leadership, for reasons that will be obvious to experienced IS developers) also have the belief that standardisation is good. We are having our J2EE workstations defined to the n'th degree and they will all be locked down so that you can't change anything. You can't even change your windows wallpaper!!! Our IDE is defined, you'd better like it because you can't install anything else. All in the sacred name of productivity
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Hi all, --- Chappell, Simon P [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Typically management worry about not having someone to blame if there is a problem. You gotcha! I told him that there was the ASF, but that there is an explicit no warranty clause in the Apache license. And do Microsoft, IBM, Sun, Oracle, etc, give warranty about their products? Money is usually a very small factor in the issue. Well, so i have to praise the Lord for my boss. The cheaper the solution, the best it is. Best regards, Daniel. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Well, using a GeForce 4 with 64MB of DDR RAM i didn't see any problem... ;- Daniel. --- David Graham [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's not an opinion it's a fact. Netbeans is based on Swing which is slow as molasses. Check your OS's memory monitor to see the difference (about 30 MB). Click on a Netbeans menu and you can feel the unresponsiveness. David From: Haseltine, Celeste [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 09:39:19 -0600 Daniel, Eclipse is much faster than Netbeans, in my opinion, and is not as much of a memory hog as Netbeans is. If you select the right plug-ins, Eclipse is an excellent IDE for all J2EE development EXCEPT JSP pages. We use Eclipse here for everything (EJB, Java Beans, servlets) BUT JSP development, and use Macromedia Dreamweaver MX for the JSP development. Dreamweaver MX has the ability to pull in external tag libraries into the IDE, and will enable code completion for those tag libraries inside of it's IDE. So when I incorporated the Struts logic, HTML, and bean tag libraries into Dreamweaver, the code completion for those tags is enabled for our JSP developers. HTML layout/design is also much simpler in Dreamweaver, as long as you stay away from the wizards that are included in Dreamweaver (adds too much extraneous code into the HTML). Hopefully, the HTML and JSP development features of Eclipse will be improved soon. Celeste -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 7:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE Hi all, I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't search on archives (why is this resource disabled?). I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop Web-based solutions in J2EE platform. And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs: Netbeans and Eclipse. I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than Netbeans offered features. But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than Netbeans. So, opinions? Best regards, Daniel. PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] = - Daniel H. F. e Silva Analista de Sistemas SBPI __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Only if you can tell the difference between a Hashtable and a vector (or a Collection and a Collections) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-) Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
I have a question, why does cloning the tables or collection (such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) constitute fast? -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:14 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Only if you can tell the difference between a Hashtable and a vector (or a Collection and a Collections) -Original Message- From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 11:26 AM If I wasn't working here for geographical/religious reasons, then I'd be freshening up my resume and going to work with Mark. (well, maybe not ;-) Simon -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
No such thing. Collections is a class. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM ...(such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/collect ions/FastHashMap.html -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) No such thing. Collections is a class. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM ...(such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
I've got it running on my linux beowulf cluster of xboxes. It responds very quickly. BAL From: Jacob Hookom [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:39:56 -0600 My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
On Tue, 21 Jan 2003, Jacob Hookom wrote: Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:22:34 -0600 From: Jacob Hookom [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) I have a question, why does cloning the tables or collection (such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) constitute fast? Cloning only happens when you modify the underlying collection. You should only use the fast collections when the very large majority of your accesses (like, 99%) are reads. In that scenario, the fast collections run faster becasue they don't synchronize. Craig -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
-Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/collect ions/FastHashMap.html -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) No such thing. Collections is a class. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM ...(such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Are you saying Java is not case sensitive nor conforms to naming standards? Collections is not collections. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/collect ions/FastHashMap.html -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM No such thing. Collections is a class. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM ...(such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
Who cares! Are you really just arguing capitalization instead of trying to help the person? Come on... this list is for helping people. Kenny Smith Mark Galbreath wrote: Are you saying Java is not case sensitive nor conforms to naming standards? Collections is not collections. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/collect ions/FastHashMap.html -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM No such thing. Collections is a class. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM ...(such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
The [OT] designation indicates this thread is garbage, so don't get your pantyhose in a knot, dude. -Original Message- From: Kenny Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:08 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Who cares! Are you really just arguing capitalization instead of trying to help the person? Come on... this list is for helping people. Kenny Smith Mark Galbreath wrote: Are you saying Java is not case sensitive nor conforms to naming standards? Collections is not collections. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/c ollect ions/FastHashMap.html -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM No such thing. Collections is a class. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM ...(such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
and if you think this is bad, stick around for friday! ;-) -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 5:16 PM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) The [OT] designation indicates this thread is garbage, so don't get your pantyhose in a knot, dude. -Original Message- From: Kenny Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 4:08 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE) Who cares! Are you really just arguing capitalization instead of trying to help the person? Come on... this list is for helping people. Kenny Smith Mark Galbreath wrote: Are you saying Java is not case sensitive nor conforms to naming standards? Collections is not collections. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:40 PM http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/collections/api/org/apache/commons/c ollect ions/FastHashMap.html -Original Message- From: Mark Galbreath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:36 PM No such thing. Collections is a class. -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 2:23 PM ...(such as in the Fast*** implementations in the Collections package) -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
That doesn't make you an individual, that makes you a sick puppy. ... snip Mark (wears jeans and hiking boots to the office now) /snip As opposed to Andrew who expresses his in-duh-viduality by wearing a jacket in a tropical climate when his colleagues wear t-shirts... ;-) Standardized office temperature, maybe? -- Joel Rees [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Standardised Environments (was RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE)
True, but I'm still here because of geo-relegious* reasons and that makes up and moving off difficult. This means that I need to stay in the arena and keep swinging the sword of common sense, among others, for a while yet. Simon * I am assisting in the startup of a United Pentecostal Church in Dodgeville (I'm a lay preacher) and it's awfully hard to fulfill such a calling living anywhere else, and my employer is the only game in town for geeks unless I drive long'ish distances. Preaching two gospels at once or preaching one Gospel and spending a lot of time on the commute -- hard choice. But if your current employer at least winks at your using your personal machine at the office, you've got a fighting chance with that one. -- Joel Rees [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
:-) Amiga shall return... -Original Message- From: Jacob Hookom [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 03:40 To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE My amiga runs NetBeans just fine -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 1:22 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Win2k, 1Ghz Pentium 3, 512 MB RAM, Sun JDK 1.4.1 and the menus still don't respond like a native application. It's either Swing or NetBeans use of Swing that is slowing it down. Plus, it's at least 30 MB larger than Eclipse. David From: Joel Wickard [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 13:13:39 -0600 Durham David Cntr 805CSS/SCBE wrote: on a P4 with the Sun's newest runtime environment, it runs great. I've got a p3 @ 900 / 256 ram and I think it runs fine. -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers
Well at least its got better hours... btw I grew up on a farm the 'farm management' elective I took in high school was the only subject I ever got straights 'A's in. - Come to think of it it was the only subject I ever got 'A's in at all, but I digress... /btw -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:45 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers maybe the economic downturn should go on for a while and some of the lesser talented will go back to farming... --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 17:18 Von: Andrew Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers Im surprised sich developers have jobs in todays market. Surely there must be a glut of more experienced developers that can be obtained at the same price? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:15 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers ok, I think it's time for us all, to lower our standards: Talking about newbies: The newbies I mean have just started Java. They think R/3 is a piece of good Software instead of a piece of crappy scripts. They asked things like: What do you mean with Transaction?, Huh, why a database *and* an applicationserver?. And if you ask them for their favourite tool, they show you a Chainsaw and a Screwdriver(ok, only the better ones have screwdrivers). If you tell them: Use what makes you more productive they stick to paperpencil. I understand them, if you start there, there is nothing you can decide upon. You have to tell them: But if you have more than one senior-coder, it would be nice if they agreed on what they tell them... --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 16:48 Von: James Childers [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers This isn't about expressing your individuality, it's about doing what makes you -- the coder -- more productive. If it's your job to write code, and you feel more comfortable using your favorite tool, then by all means use it. As far as administrative costs are concerned: Coders are smart enough to troubleshoot their own boxes, and if they're not then they damn well should be. Newbies? I challenge the notion that forcing new toolsets on them is productive in the long run. It is completely within the realm of possibility that they will have a shorter ramp-up time if they are able to use tools they are already familiar with to integrate with existing standards. In short: I have never encountered a development environment where it would be better to standardize upon a single, monolithic work environment for all developers. Some people like Emacs, some like Eclipse, some like directly editing bytecode with a hex editor. Whatever. So long as the project gets done on time, on budget, and meets the requirements *it doesn't matter*. -= J PS: I am currently working on a team of 12 developers who each use their own toolset. We are ahead of schedule and under budget. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2003 9:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: AW: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers I think there exist many and more fruitful ways to express your individuality than using IDE A rather than that ide B. If the IDE is not important, why not standardize one: Makes it easier for administrators to setup new boxes, allows to pass the box to another member of your team, allows to use the same plug-ins and so on: Just think about Integration with version-Control: Cowboy-Coder A uses Eclipse which has a bug with Perforce-Integration, Cowboy-Coder B insists on using IntelliJ, which has no Perforce-Integration at all: And the Newbie-Coder comes in and is totally confused as there exist three ways of setting up your enviroment. No Standards at all are ok if you have a team-size of one... --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht --- Datum: 21.01.2003 16:20 Von: James Childers [EMAIL PROTECTED] An: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Betreff: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE - The Two Towers I second this. Different people work in different ways; standardizing an IDE for every developer ignores this rather key fact of human nature. If my company were to standardize on an IDE that some people don't like, they're just going to be frustrated and bitter, decreasing productivity. *shudder* Thank Baal they don't do that at my company. Everybody can use whatever development tools they want, so long as the code compiles and passes
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
You might try searching on http://www.javablogs.com - there's been lots of debates on this topic lately. -Original Message- From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 6:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE Hi all, I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't search on archives (why is this resource disabled?). I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop Web-based solutions in J2EE platform. And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs: Netbeans and Eclipse. I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than Netbeans offered features. But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than Netbeans. So, opinions? Best regards, Daniel. PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
I used to use NetBeans and now I switched to Eclipse, because Eclipse is so much faster, smaller, and works great with CVS. Keep in mind that a tool or a framework might not make a project successful by itself. .V Daniel H. F. e Silva wrote: Hi all, I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't search on archives (why is this resource disabled?). I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop Web-based solutions in J2EE platform. And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs: Netbeans and Eclipse. I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than Netbeans offered features. But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than Netbeans. So, opinions? Best regards, Daniel. PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE
You're not likely to get many unbiased opinions on this topic. I will tell you that my brief experience with Netbeans has been terrible (even on latest versions). I'm a big fan of Eclipse even though it doesn't have the JSP editor yet. Netbeans also has a gui builder but I don't know how good the code it generates is. I don't recommend that your report mandate one IDE over another. Everyone on the project should be allowed to use what they like and are most productive in. I just found NetBeans very difficult to work with. David From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:35:08 -0800 (PST) Hi all, I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't search on archives (why is this resource disabled?). I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop Web-based solutions in J2EE platform. And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs: Netbeans and Eclipse. I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than Netbeans offered features. But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than Netbeans. So, opinions? Best regards, Daniel. PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE
LOL Dave From: Andrew Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:09:48 +0800 Hmm. If your gonna restrict yourself to one editor better pick something versatile... Have you tried vi yet?... ...I heard it was better than Emacs ;- -Original Message- From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 21 January 2003 11:07 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [OT] Eclipse IDE You're not likely to get many unbiased opinions on this topic. I will tell you that my brief experience with Netbeans has been terrible (even on latest versions). I'm a big fan of Eclipse even though it doesn't have the JSP editor yet. Netbeans also has a gui builder but I don't know how good the code it generates is. I don't recommend that your report mandate one IDE over another. Everyone on the project should be allowed to use what they like and are most productive in. I just found NetBeans very difficult to work with. David From: Daniel H. F. e Silva [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [OT] Eclipse IDE Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 17:35:08 -0800 (PST) Hi all, I know that it is very possible that this subject was already discussed here, but i couldn't search on archives (why is this resource disabled?). I'm beginning to design a software development process specification as a job task. It will include, for instance, a list of all tools, software, frameworks, etc, necessary to develop Web-based solutions in J2EE platform. And after doing a lot of research, i've found that open-source world has two leading IDEs: Netbeans and Eclipse. I'd like to hear about experiences with both of them. In my preliminary tests i guess it was difficult to work with Eclipse with focus on Web development. For instance, it doesn't have a cool JSP editor like Netbeans. I've tried an Eclipse plugin, but its features are inferior than Netbeans offered features. But i liked Eclipse's plugins feature. And it has a better aproach to manage code quality than Netbeans. So, opinions? Best regards, Daniel. PS: Sorry for possible language mistakes. English is not my native language. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
