Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[Ant]

On 8/7/2011 11:01 PM PT, Stanimir Stamenkov typed:

...

Seem related to the recent fact Google Groups is not showing any new
messages for some time, although it seems to allow posting. Currently,
the last message visible in mozilla.support.seamonkey on Google Groups
is from Aug 2:

http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey


Gogle doesn't seem to care about its newsgroup/usenet service. I use 
Giganews and sometimes I don't see my latest posts as well. This has 
been like that for years. :(

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[Stanimir Stamenkov]

[Sending to Don, in addition to the group.]

Mon, 08 Aug 2011 00:53:45 -0400, /Justin Wood (Callek)/:

Don wrote:


...


Don your message here is a repeat of yesterdays, yesterdays (Aug 6)
also recieved many replies addressing your concerns, please do not
double post, and see those replies. From there we can move on with
further discussion if need be.


Seem related to the recent fact Google Groups is not showing any new 
messages for some time, although it seems to allow posting. 
Currently, the last message visible in mozilla.support.seamonkey on 
Google Groups is from Aug 2:


http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.seamonkey

--
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

Don wrote:


Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward.

...


Don


Don your message here is a repeat of yesterdays, yesterdays (Aug 6) also 
recieved many replies addressing your concerns, please do not double 
post, and see those replies. From there we can move on with further 
discussion if need be.


Thanks,
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[Ray_Net]

Keith Whaley wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Don wrote:

Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward.


[...]


Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still
keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.?

Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain.
Not just to report a bug. (this version IS a bug.)



No. You must accept the developers dreams ... they are not paid, so they
can do what they want.


A commonly-stated incorrect-ism.

While the developers may not receive any remuneration for what they do,
they ARE employed. And as such, that 'team' must follow the direction(s)
set down by those in charge, who (presumably) have a direction they have
planned to follow, to attain whatever mutual goals have been established.

All moving vehicles or groups need a goal and a direction.

Do/go where they want? I don't think so... The SM team is not a
reincantation of the Keystone Kops.

keith whaley

Just what i have said:
And as such, that 'team' must follow the direction(s) set down by those 
in charge, who (presumably) have a direction they have planned to 
follow, to attain whatever mutual goals have been established.


Not the individual do what they want, but the "those in charge" what 
they want.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[Keith Whaley]

Ray_Net wrote:

Don wrote:

Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward.


[...]


Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still
keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.?

Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain.
Not just to report a bug. (this version IS a bug.)



No. You must accept the developers dreams ... they are not paid, so they
can do what they want.


A commonly-stated incorrect-ism.

While the developers may not receive any remuneration for what they do, 
they ARE employed. And as such, that 'team' must follow the direction(s) 
set down by those in charge, who (presumably) have a direction they have 
planned to follow, to attain whatever mutual goals have been established.


All moving vehicles or groups need a goal and a direction.

Do/go where they want? I don't think so... The SM team is not a 
reincantation of the Keystone Kops.


keith whaley
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[denewton]

Don a écrit :

Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward.   It has many changes with
no real improvement.  This new version makes some things take more
time, like simply saving a bookmark.   Now there is no way to
designate a new bookmark folder.

Many other problems.  For one thing there is no documentation for the
new changes.  example:  what the heck are "unsorted bookmarks"?   Also
when you open the bookmark header, what is the order of all the
bookmarks below the "recent tags"?

Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still
keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.?

Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain.
Not just to report a bug.  (this version IS a bug.)

Thanks for any help.

Don


Hello
You bookmars list is in "menu des marque-pages" (menu of bookmarks?)
good luck
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[denewton]

Don a écrit :

Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward.   It has many changes with
no real improvement.  This new version makes some things take more
time, like simply saving a bookmark.   Now there is no way to
designate a new bookmark folder.

Many other problems.  For one thing there is no documentation for the
new changes.  example:  what the heck are "unsorted bookmarks"?   Also
when you open the bookmark header, what is the order of all the
bookmarks below the "recent tags"?

Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still
keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.?

Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain.
Not just to report a bug.  (this version IS a bug.)

Thanks for any help.

Don


Hello
You can create a new folder in your bookmark list : in frensh (translate 
in english) the way is :
marque-pages (bookmarks)->organiser les marque-pages (organise the 
bookmarks???)->fichier(file)->nouveau dossier(new folder)-> name this 
new folder

Thats all
Sinserly
Bertrand
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[Ray_Net]

Don wrote:

Clearly Seamonkey 2.2 is a step backward.   It has many changes with
no real improvement.  This new version makes some things take more
time, like simply saving a bookmark.   Now there is no way to
designate a new bookmark folder.

Many other problems.  For one thing there is no documentation for the
new changes.  example:  what the heck are "unsorted bookmarks"?   Also
when you open the bookmark header, what is the order of all the
bookmarks below the "recent tags"?

Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still
keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.?

Also how do I write the people who wrote this version to complain.
Not just to report a bug.  (this version IS a bug.)

No. You must accept the developers dreams ... they are not paid, so they 
can do what they want.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is a step backwards

[Robert Kaiser]

Don schrieb:

Is there any simple way to go back to an earlier version and still
keep my bookmarks, settings, emails etc.?


There is no older version that still is supported.

Unsorted bookmarks are those you file quickly with the new bookmarks 
icon at the right of the location bar.


Robert Kaiser


--
Note that any statements of mine - no matter how passionate - are never 
meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community should think about. And most of the 
time, I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0.x and Firefox Sync extension

[sean bean]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

MCBastos wrote:

I have been letting it auto-update itself for some time... but recently
I noticed that it does not sync anymore. Worse: the extension Options
dialog screen simply does not work (...)

Is it just me, or is the Firefox Sync extension no longer really
compatible with Seamonkey?


Indeed the latest versions of the Firefox Sync add-on do not work
properly with SM 2.0 anymore. You'll either have to return to one of the
previous Firefox Sync versions (maybe 1.5.1) or wait for SM 2.1 which
will be released really soon now and includes Sync out of the box (which
also means there won't be any compatibility issues through add-on updates).

HTH

Jens



getting really impatient for a final so more of my extensions can catch 
up... but loving its speed and stability...

sean

--
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will leave footprints in your heart.


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* taglines courtesy of TagZilla 0.066
* http://tagzilla.mozdev.org
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0.x and Firefox Sync extension

[Jens Hatlak]

MCBastos wrote:

I have been letting it auto-update itself for some time... but recently
I noticed that it does not sync anymore. Worse: the extension Options
dialog screen simply does not work (...)

Is it just me, or is the Firefox Sync extension no longer really
compatible with Seamonkey?


Indeed the latest versions of the Firefox Sync add-on do not work 
properly with SM 2.0 anymore. You'll either have to return to one of the 
previous Firefox Sync versions (maybe 1.5.1) or wait for SM 2.1 which 
will be released really soon now and includes Sync out of the box (which 
also means there won't be any compatibility issues through add-on updates).


HTH

Jens

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SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker 
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Tony Mechelynck]

On 30/12/10 04:26, NoOp wrote:

On 12/29/2010 06:33 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

On 12/29/2010 5:07 PM, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:

- will provisions be made for importing/exporting lightning calendars?


That's my biggest concern, too.:-)


Lightning is an extension, one which does not directly provide support
for SeaMonkey, and is also [last I knew] currently targeting Gecko 1.9.2
which there was and is no SeaMonkey release on.

We as the Council hopes there is a suitable solution for lightning
users, and will support the efforts where possible, but I do not foresee
anyone from the SeaMonkey team devoting direct time to get export/import
improved in the near future.



Then you'd be seriously mistaken. Users have spent considerable time&
effort integrating lightning calendars&  data into their systems. If you
think that there was backlash with SM 1.1.x and forms, wait until they
try 2.1 and try backing down to 2.0 and realize that their calendars no
longer are compatible.
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1248265



The solution is mentioned there too: don't use in-profile calendars (in 
the proprietary Mozilla format), export them (or create them) as *.ics 
calendars somewhere else on your HD. In that format they should even be 
compatible with the no-longer-supported Sunbird program.




I *highly* recommend that the "Council" sort out the issues (personal
and technical) with the SeaMonkey&  Lightning folks *before* any SM 2.1
release. If you don't then I suspect that you'll continue to lose space
with MS Office&  other browser/calendar integration offerings. IMO
seamless Lightning integration with SeaMonkey is critical to SeaMonkey's
future.





The main problem with Lightning is that *Lightning* is practically a 
one-man operation, and a busy man at that. Alas for us, he cannot afford 
to dedicate all his time to Lightning, so fixes to Lightning bugs 
(sometimes including bugs very annoying to the users) take their own 
(long) time coming. The SeaMonkey guys can do nothing about that, they 
have enough on their hands keeping SeaMonkey working.



Best regards,
Tony.
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One who believes that the New Testament is a divinely inspired
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follows the teachings of Christ in so far as they are not inconsistent
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Tony Mechelynck]

On 31/12/10 04:16, NoOp wrote:
[...]

OK, it was marked as RESOLVED as in:
This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 613199 ***
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613199
Status:  RESOLVED FIXED
Product:SeaMonkey

Hence, it was technically marked as FIXED.




At bugzilla.mozilla.org, FIXED means fixed-on-trunk. There are also some 
flags and keywords to indicate that, in addition, a bug has been fixed 
on some other branch.


In your OP you asked, what good is there in staying with SeaMonkey? 
That's for every user to judge for him- or herself. The fact that this 
product is maintained by a small group of unpaid volunteers, as an 
all-in-one Suite uniting a Firefox-like browser, a Thunderbird-like 
mail/news/RSS client, a chat client, and more, all in a single 
executable program and the libraries that go with it, will be seen by 
some as an advantage, by others as a blemish.


Myself, I have in the past felt as "just a number" in the mass of 
not-listened-to users of Firefox, where features on which I depended 
have repeatedly been sacked by the developers, for no good reason or for 
some obviously false reason (like "no one uses it" and "it is not 
discoverable" for something -the throbber link- that I had discovered 
without help, and used). With SeaMonkey, in my experience, the 
developers listen better to what the users have to say — or maybe I'm 
lulling myself with illusions and have just found a group of developers 
with the same values as mine; anyway I feel more at home with SeaMonkey 
than I ever did with Firefox (or, worse, with Konqueror or of course 
with Internet Explorer). But the SeaMonkey developers are fewer than 
Firefox's, none of them is paid by Mozilla (unlike Firefox's), and they 
don't have as many machines at their disposal as are used to maintain 
three or four parallel branches of the Firefox code: with SeaMonkey, it 
seems that two's the limit: one trunk undergoing active development, and 
in a kind of "state of flux", continually changing especially when 
labeled "alpha" or even "beta", and one "stable" branch whose behaviour 
will not fundamentally change between one day and the next or even one 
month and the next: this gives extension developers some confidence that 
it is worth their while to develop extensions for it, but it also means 
no new features. Bugs, however, especially important bugs, still get 
fixed, even on the "stable" branch, if a fix can be found for them. Of 
course, it can happen that, for some bug, no fix is found (yet): then of 
course that bug doesn't (yet) get fixed.


So, make your own choice: it may be other than mine (I've been using 
SeaMonkey trunk nightlies for some time even if, unlike WLS, I have 
problems getting Lightning to work with them) because you are not me; 
that's why it's important to *have* a choice, one thing to which the 
not-for-profit Mozilla Foundation is dedicated.



Best regards,
Tony.
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Philip Chee]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 23:51:02 +0100, Robert Kaiser wrote:
> Philip Chee schrieb:
>> On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:58:14 +0100, Robert Kaiser wrote:
>>> NoOp schrieb:
 wait until they
 try 2.1 and try backing down to 2.0 and realize that their calendars no
 longer are compatible.
>>>
>>> Who says that they would not be compatible? From all I know, they are
>>> perfectly compatible so far.
>>
>> There is an incompatible change in the Lightning schema. It was
>> mentioned in the calendar newsgroups and possibly planet.
> 
> But IIRC updates work fine with that, just downgrades don't, right?

I *think* so but don't quote me on that.

Phil

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oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

On 12/30/2010 10:16 PM, NoOp wrote:

Really? Why don't you switch to SM 2.0.11 instead of Thunderbird 3.1.7
and try it?


Because I was, (and *am* in the middle of a compile cycle right now). I 
use Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and Firefox regularly.


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

On 12/30/2010 10:18 PM, NoOp wrote:

On 12/30/2010 02:47 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

On 12/30/2010 4:15 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:


On 12/29/2010 10:05 PM, NoOp wrote:


Here is a paste of:  directly from 2.0.11. There are of
course more examples in the bug report, but that one works for me.


Which is in and of itself not broken. Copy/Paste of it works. You
just get spaces, which if you copy/paste that whole string back into
SeaMonkey you'll load the page (at the anchor) correctly.


But if you mouse over it, you'll see in the status bar that SM doesn't
parse beyond the first space, angle brackets notwithstanding, so
clicking the link in NoOp's post takes you to
, which yields the top of the
page, not the desired bookmark.

Here's a clickable link that does take you directly to the bookmark:



His issue was not link-parsing in mailnews [which, fwiw can be SOLVED
with HTML mail, since the link is an anchor tag, in quotes]. but the
copy/paste behavior. Which I addressed. Mailnews linkage is a different
story as well. (and NOT A BUG imo for mailnews since the auto-link in
text-only-mode is correct)



You are recommending that I use HTML mail?


On a personal opinion only, no I am not recommending HTML mail. [I am 
sad that it is supported anywhere, but I at least recognize it works and 
people use it].


I am more saying that the correct way to auto-link in mailnews is as the 
link was done.


I have not yet tested this whole situation much (as I am hitting a trunk 
bug, XP only, where copy+paste doesn't work, at all. among other things) 
But if that bug is correct, copy/paste of the whole url-bar should 
generate %20's its only substring copies that don't. If that is not the 
case I *would* support a patch [on trunk only] to fix that.


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[NoOp]

On 12/30/2010 02:47 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
> On 12/30/2010 4:15 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
>> Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/29/2010 10:05 PM, NoOp wrote:
>>>
 Here is a paste of:  directly from 2.0.11. There are of
 course more examples in the bug report, but that one works for me.
>>>
>>> Which is in and of itself not broken. Copy/Paste of it works. You
>>> just get spaces, which if you copy/paste that whole string back into
>>> SeaMonkey you'll load the page (at the anchor) correctly.
>>
>> But if you mouse over it, you'll see in the status bar that SM doesn't
>> parse beyond the first space, angle brackets notwithstanding, so
>> clicking the link in NoOp's post takes you to
>> , which yields the top of the
>> page, not the desired bookmark.
>>
>> Here's a clickable link that does take you directly to the bookmark:
>> 
> 
> His issue was not link-parsing in mailnews [which, fwiw can be SOLVED 
> with HTML mail, since the link is an anchor tag, in quotes]. but the 
> copy/paste behavior. Which I addressed. Mailnews linkage is a different 
> story as well. (and NOT A BUG imo for mailnews since the auto-link in 
> text-only-mode is correct)
> 

You are recommending that I use HTML mail?


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[NoOp]

On 12/29/2010 08:22 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
> On 12/29/2010 10:05 PM, NoOp wrote:
>> On 12/29/2010 04:15 AM, Neil wrote:
>>> NoOp wrote:
>>>
 As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some
 users to go from SM 1.x to 2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only"
 mode, then I wonder if it is worth continuing with SeaMonkey
 further.


>>> I think you have misunderstood the point of "maintenance". New
>>> features are always developed on trunk. At some point, we'll put a
>>> temporary freeze on new features, to allow as many remaining bugs in
>>> those features to be discovered and fixed. Locale strings are also
>>> normally frozen at this point. Eventually we decide we're ready and
>>> create a release branch. Development on the next version of SeaMonkey
>>> can then restart on trunk (in practice we don't have the resources
>>> for this until after the release.) Meanwhile the release branch fixes
>>> last-minute bugs at which point we can then release the x.x.0
>>> version. But that's not the end of the branch; bugs are always being
>>> found, and if they have a severe impact (e.g. data loss, crash) then
>>> they are fixed on the branch and typically every month a maintenance
>>> release containing these fixes is delivered.
>>>
>>
>> I don't think that I've misunderstood;
> 
> Yes you have misunderstood what maintenance mode means. The following 
> part of your explanation does not correlate to what maintenance mode 
> means. nor does it have anything to do with our discussion, even so I'll 
> address those points.
> 
>  > the bug was opened in November
>> 2009 with 2.0.1pre&  1.1.18. It was/is well documented, and is an
>> outstanding issue going back to January 2009 (Firefox),
> 
> Yes it was opened against Firefox. and as such was not reported as a 
> SeaMonkey Bug. (So 2.0.1pre, and 1.1.18 are irrelevant here -- even if 
> it exists in SeaMonkey). But lets presume that it was a SeaMonkey bug 
> for sake of argument...  it was found AFTER the 2.0.0 release (2.0.1pre) 
> which means it would fall into criteria for a maintenance release.

It was reported after this thread:
"SM 2.0 URL escape character auto conversion"
10/30/2009
I then went ahead and filed the bug.
Use your *SeaMonkey* newsreader to review.

> 
>>  see:
>> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=475896. It is NOT a "New
>> feature".
> 
> No it is a trivial "bug fix" that accompanies with it a behavior change 
> that some others may rely on. We do not take behavior changes/new 
> features in a security release. The only behavior changes that matter 
> are those that fix even more serious bugs [not an edge case like this] 
> or are accompanying a real security threat. And are rated on a case by 
> case basis. [read on]

If it's trivial, then why not target it for something other than
Target Milestone:   seamonkey2.1b2
??

2.0.12 *might* occur...

But Philipp's "fix" was dated:
2010-11-21 07:38:47 PST
SeaMonkey 2.0.11 was released December 9:
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases

SeaMonkey 2.0.11 December 9 (tied to Firefox 3.5.16)


> 
>> There are thousands of 2.0.x SeaMonkey users (at least one would hope
>> so) out there that still have this issue.
> 
> The bug is valid, so every user has this issue. The fact though is that 
> not every user encounters it, nor of those that do actually care. [or 
> perhaps RELY on the space behavior for other reason]

BS

> 
>  > Marking the bug as 'FIXED' on
>> a yet to be released 2.1 trunk IMO simply doesn't cut it IMO.
> 
> Marking the bug as FIXED didn't happen. Its not fixed, there is not even 
> a reviewed patch that can be requested approval for the maintenance 
> branch. And as I said above, its a Firefox bug, in Firefox code. So 
> nothing (aside from writing the fix it for Firefox ourselves, with our 
> limited resources) we could do for it.

OK, it was marked as RESOLVED as in:
This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 613199 ***
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=613199
Status:  RESOLVED FIXED
Product:SeaMonkey

Hence, it was technically marked as FIXED.



> 
>> If we expect users to install 2.1pre versions simply so that they can
>> copy&  paste a url from the url bar, then I suspect that no fixes in any
>> "current" version of SeaMonkey (http://www.seamonkey-project.org/) will
>> ever be satisfied.
> 
> No, any user can copy/paste a url from the url bar. Pasting back into 
> the urlbar of any current Mozilla-Based application, space or no space, 
> will work just fine. It's said other applications bug if they don't 
> convert ' ' to '%20'. If copy/paste was entirely broken, in SeaMonkey 
> 2.0.x that would be not only a regression, but a blocker imo; and I 
> would be sure to devote resources to fix it, and happy to approve it 
> landing in the 2.0 maintenance branch.

Really? Why don't you switch to SM 2.0.11 instead of Thunderbird 3.1.7
and try i

Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:


On 12/30/2010 4:15 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:


On 12/29/2010 10:05 PM, NoOp wrote:


Here is a paste of:  directly from 2.0.11. There are of
course more examples in the bug report, but that one works for me.


Which is in and of itself not broken. Copy/Paste of it works. You
just get spaces, which if you copy/paste that whole string back into
SeaMonkey you'll load the page (at the anchor) correctly.


But if you mouse over it, you'll see in the status bar that SM doesn't
parse beyond the first space, angle brackets notwithstanding, so
clicking the link in NoOp's post takes you to
, which yields the top of the
page, not the desired bookmark.

Here's a clickable link that does take you directly to the bookmark:




His issue was not link-parsing in mailnews [which, fwiw can be SOLVED
with HTML mail, since the link is an anchor tag, in quotes]. but the
copy/paste behavior. Which I addressed. Mailnews linkage is a different
story as well. (and NOT A BUG imo for mailnews since the auto-link in
text-only-mode is correct)


Fair enough, assuming the sender is interested and savvy enough to do 
this. In my experience, the vast majority of end users don't even use 
angle brackets, so it would be a better system if Mozilla improved its 
link parsing in mail/news messages.



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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Robert Kaiser]

Philip Chee schrieb:

On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:58:14 +0100, Robert Kaiser wrote:

NoOp schrieb:

wait until they
try 2.1 and try backing down to 2.0 and realize that their calendars no
longer are compatible.


Who says that they would not be compatible? From all I know, they are
perfectly compatible so far.


There is an incompatible change in the Lightning schema. It was
mentioned in the calendar newsgroups and possibly planet.


But IIRC updates work fine with that, just downgrades don't, right?

Robert Kaiser


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

On 12/30/2010 4:15 AM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:


On 12/29/2010 10:05 PM, NoOp wrote:


Here is a paste of:  directly from 2.0.11. There are of
course more examples in the bug report, but that one works for me.


Which is in and of itself not broken. Copy/Paste of it works. You
just get spaces, which if you copy/paste that whole string back into
SeaMonkey you'll load the page (at the anchor) correctly.


But if you mouse over it, you'll see in the status bar that SM doesn't
parse beyond the first space, angle brackets notwithstanding, so
clicking the link in NoOp's post takes you to
, which yields the top of the
page, not the desired bookmark.

Here's a clickable link that does take you directly to the bookmark:



His issue was not link-parsing in mailnews [which, fwiw can be SOLVED 
with HTML mail, since the link is an anchor tag, in quotes]. but the 
copy/paste behavior. Which I addressed. Mailnews linkage is a different 
story as well. (and NOT A BUG imo for mailnews since the auto-link in 
text-only-mode is correct)


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Philip Chee]

On Thu, 30 Dec 2010 13:58:14 +0100, Robert Kaiser wrote:
> NoOp schrieb:
>> wait until they
>> try 2.1 and try backing down to 2.0 and realize that their calendars no
>> longer are compatible.
> 
> Who says that they would not be compatible? From all I know, they are 
> perfectly compatible so far.

There is an incompatible change in the Lightning schema. It was
mentioned in the calendar newsgroups and possibly planet.

Phil

-- 
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Robert Kaiser]

Ray_Net schrieb:

Robert Kaiser wrote:


That 2.0 profiles will "just work" in 2.1 - downgrading from 2.1 to 2.0
might even work, but might have some flaws which we only intend to fix
if it's easy (e.g. 2.1 bookmarks will never automatically work in 2.0).



So the downgrading to 2.0 is NOT possible - Great news . :-(


I just said that it actually is possible, but it might have some flaws 
(small annoyances, not large problems). And 2.1 bookmarks will not "just 
work" in 2.0, you need to export to a bookmarks.html first, and that one 
should work fine in 2.0, then.


Robert Kaiser


--
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Ray_Net]

Robert Kaiser wrote:


That 2.0 profiles will "just work" in 2.1 - downgrading from 2.1 to 2.0
might even work, but might have some flaws which we only intend to fix
if it's easy (e.g. 2.1 bookmarks will never automatically work in 2.0).



So the downgrading to 2.0 is NOT possible - Great news . :-(
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Robert Kaiser]

NoOp schrieb:

wait until they
try 2.1 and try backing down to 2.0 and realize that their calendars no
longer are compatible.


Who says that they would not be compatible? From all I know, they are 
perfectly compatible so far.


Robert Kaiser


--
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meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Robert Kaiser]

NoOp schrieb:

There are thousands of 2.0.x SeaMonkey users (at least one would hope
so) out there that still have this issue. Marking the bug as 'FIXED' on
a yet to be released 2.1 trunk IMO simply doesn't cut it IMO.


"FIXED" always means "fixed in the version set as target milestone 
and/or the current development version". You're right that there are 
thousands of SeaMonkey 2.0.x users and exactly that's why we don't 
magically change the behavior with a possibly silent security update 
(unless we have to for security reasons) as then they'd start to 
mistrust our security updates.


Robert Kaiser


--
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meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Robert Kaiser]

NoOp schrieb:

Phillip Chee pointed out this in:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531210


The SeaMonkey 2.0.x branch is in maintenance mode. Only security and
stability fixes are allowed.


If this is the case, then shouldn't standard users be notified of this on:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/
particularly since that is the "Official" download site and the supposed
official release of SeaMonkey?


Why? Any stable release series in in maintenance mode, i.e. only gets 
stability and security improvements. New features only ever go into 
not-yet-stable release series (right now 2.1). That's common policy in 
almost all software project and doesn't need special mention.



I'd also appreciate comments as to the direction of SeaMonkey;
- will users go through yet another SM 1.x to 2.0 transition in the near
future?


Why that? They are not using 1.x any more if the ever think of security.


- will provisions be made for importing/exporting lightning calendars?


Ask the calendar project, this is an add-on and completely up to their 
developers.



- what can users expect in the 2.0 to 2.1 transition?


That 2.0 profiles will "just work" in 2.1 - downgrading from 2.1 to 2.0 
might even work, but might have some flaws which we only intend to fix 
if it's easy (e.g. 2.1 bookmarks will never automatically work in 2.0).



As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some users to
go from SM 1.x to 2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only" mode, then I
wonder if it is worth continuing with SeaMonkey further.


Why? I completely don't understand what's wrong with a well-maintained 
stable release series. "Maintenance mode" means that we still maintain 
it and keep it stable and secure, but just promise to not make any large 
changes - those go into the next not-yet-stable release series.



Followup-To set for mozilla.support.seamonkey as this is an user
issue/concern.


Not having read there yet, I ignore any replies that are already there 
until I get there in my reading, so I'm sorry if I'm just duplicating 
stuff here.


Robert Kaiser

--
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meant to be offensive but very often as food for thought or possible 
arguments that we as a community needs answers to. And most of the time, 
I even appreciate irony and fun! :)

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Philip Chee]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 19:26:08 -0800, NoOp wrote:

> I *highly* recommend that the "Council" sort out the issues (personal
> and technical) with the SeaMonkey & Lightning folks *before* any SM 2.1

Unfortunately there are no Lightning "folks" plural left. There is one
solitary volunteer who works on it in between his exams and the
occasional drive by patch from some outsider (possibly a linux distro
person fixing a bug). If *you* want to help try to get more people
involved in Lightning development.

Phil

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Stéphane Grégoire]

Hi,

WLS a tapoté, le 30/12/2010 01:43:
> Lightning 1.1a1pre (32-bit) works just fine for me in SM 2.1b2pre 
> (32-bit) on openSUSE 11.3.
> 
> ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/calendar/lightning/nightly/linux-xpi/


The link which is working with Seamonkey 2.1b2pre is


-- 
Stéphane


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Chris Ilias]

On 10-12-29 10:05 PM, NoOp wrote:

I don't think that I've misunderstood; the bug was opened in November
2009 with 2.0.1pre&  1.1.18. It was/is well documented, and is an
outstanding issue going back to January 2009 (Firefox), see:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=475896. It is NOT a "New
feature".

There are thousands of 2.0.x SeaMonkey users (at least one would hope
so) out there that still have this issue. Marking the bug as 'FIXED' on
a yet to be released 2.1 trunk IMO simply doesn't cut it IMO.

If we expect users to install 2.1pre versions simply so that they can
copy&  paste a url from the url bar, then I suspect that no fixes in any
"current" version of SeaMonkey (http://www.seamonkey-project.org/) will
ever be satisfied.


Hi NoOp,
Unfortunately, your understanding of how development and bugzilla works 
is incorrect. Put it this way, when a new major version of SeaMonkey is 
released, are developers supposed to start going through hundreds of 
bugs they've fixed over the past year and start making them as fixed? 
What if the bug is in more than one release?


Maintenance mode (or stable branch) means that changes can only be made 
to the code if doesn't:

* break extensions
* require localizers to translate more strings
(and probably more, but the general idea is not to make changes that are 
going to break other things)


If a bug appears in both the trunk and branch (which is usually the 
case), the fix is first applied to the trunk. You can then request that 
it be applied to the branch. Someone will then review patch, to see if 
it is safe enough to be applied to the stable branch, and if it is apply 
that patch and add the appropriate keyword to the bug. In some cases, 
the assignee may need to create a separate patch just for the stable 
branch.


No-one is telling users that you have to download a pre-release to see 
the fix (Although it would be helpful to test it). It's just a matter of 
which end-user release users will experience the fix: the next 2.0.x 
release or 2.1.


Phillip marked the bug as a duplicate of bug 613199, so bug 613199 is 
the one you need to nominate for SeaMonkey 2.0.


--
Chris Ilias 
Newsgroup moderator
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:


On 12/29/2010 10:05 PM, NoOp wrote:


Here is a paste of:  directly from 2.0.11. There are of
course more examples in the bug report, but that one works for me.


Which is in and of itself not broken. Copy/Paste of it works. You
just get spaces, which if you copy/paste that whole string back into
SeaMonkey you'll load the page (at the anchor) correctly.


But if you mouse over it, you'll see in the status bar that SM doesn't 
parse beyond the first space, angle brackets notwithstanding, so 
clicking the link in NoOp's post takes you to 
, which yields the top of the 
page, not the desired bookmark.


Here's a clickable link that does take you directly to the bookmark:


--
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Edmund]

NoOp wrote:
> Then you'd be seriously mistaken. Users have spent considerable time &
> effort integrating lightning calendars & data into their systems. If you
> think that there was backlash with SM 1.1.x and forms, wait until they
> try 2.1 and try backing down to 2.0 and realize that their calendars no
> longer are compatible.
> http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1248265
> 
> 
> I *highly* recommend that the "Council" sort out the issues (personal
> and technical) with the SeaMonkey & Lightning folks *before* any SM 2.1
> release. If you don't then I suspect that you'll continue to lose space
> with MS Office & other browser/calendar integration offerings. IMO
> seamless Lightning integration with SeaMonkey is critical to SeaMonkey's
> future.

I'd like to add my unsolicited $0.02.

I'm one of the SeaMonkey devs (well, beginner I must add and a
relative newcomer to the scene, though I have used SeaMonkey,
and before that Mozilla and Netscape).  Should have volunteered
a long time ago.

As Justin pointed out, the issue is human resources.  It's simple as
that.  It's not personal.  Not Technical. (Well, to me, my skill set
really is limited I'm sorry to say).  I'm still earnestly learning
the ropes, but there's really only so many hours in a day and
how much I can volunteer for it.

While I can't speak for everyone, but I believe the feeling is the
same.  We all want to add all features, and fix all bugs in SeaMonkey
and its associated extensions(in this case, Lightning); but we
really don't have that much time and we need more devs to help out.

What I do thank for is you and everyone's continued patience with
the dev team.  I'll do my darndest to help with the bugs and
features while trying to learn the ropes as well.

Edmund

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

On 12/29/2010 10:05 PM, NoOp wrote:

On 12/29/2010 04:15 AM, Neil wrote:

NoOp wrote:


As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some
users to go from SM 1.x to 2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only"
mode, then I wonder if it is worth continuing with SeaMonkey
further.



I think you have misunderstood the point of "maintenance". New
features are always developed on trunk. At some point, we'll put a
temporary freeze on new features, to allow as many remaining bugs in
those features to be discovered and fixed. Locale strings are also
normally frozen at this point. Eventually we decide we're ready and
create a release branch. Development on the next version of SeaMonkey
can then restart on trunk (in practice we don't have the resources
for this until after the release.) Meanwhile the release branch fixes
last-minute bugs at which point we can then release the x.x.0
version. But that's not the end of the branch; bugs are always being
found, and if they have a severe impact (e.g. data loss, crash) then
they are fixed on the branch and typically every month a maintenance
release containing these fixes is delivered.



I don't think that I've misunderstood;


Yes you have misunderstood what maintenance mode means. The following 
part of your explanation does not correlate to what maintenance mode 
means. nor does it have anything to do with our discussion, even so I'll 
address those points.


> the bug was opened in November

2009 with 2.0.1pre&  1.1.18. It was/is well documented, and is an
outstanding issue going back to January 2009 (Firefox),


Yes it was opened against Firefox. and as such was not reported as a 
SeaMonkey Bug. (So 2.0.1pre, and 1.1.18 are irrelevant here -- even if 
it exists in SeaMonkey). But lets presume that it was a SeaMonkey bug 
for sake of argument...  it was found AFTER the 2.0.0 release (2.0.1pre) 
which means it would fall into criteria for a maintenance release.



 see:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=475896. It is NOT a "New
feature".


No it is a trivial "bug fix" that accompanies with it a behavior change 
that some others may rely on. We do not take behavior changes/new 
features in a security release. The only behavior changes that matter 
are those that fix even more serious bugs [not an edge case like this] 
or are accompanying a real security threat. And are rated on a case by 
case basis. [read on]




There are thousands of 2.0.x SeaMonkey users (at least one would hope
so) out there that still have this issue.


The bug is valid, so every user has this issue. The fact though is that 
not every user encounters it, nor of those that do actually care. [or 
perhaps RELY on the space behavior for other reason]


> Marking the bug as 'FIXED' on

a yet to be released 2.1 trunk IMO simply doesn't cut it IMO.


Marking the bug as FIXED didn't happen. Its not fixed, there is not even 
a reviewed patch that can be requested approval for the maintenance 
branch. And as I said above, its a Firefox bug, in Firefox code. So 
nothing (aside from writing the fix it for Firefox ourselves, with our 
limited resources) we could do for it.



If we expect users to install 2.1pre versions simply so that they can
copy&  paste a url from the url bar, then I suspect that no fixes in any
"current" version of SeaMonkey (http://www.seamonkey-project.org/) will
ever be satisfied.


No, any user can copy/paste a url from the url bar. Pasting back into 
the urlbar of any current Mozilla-Based application, space or no space, 
will work just fine. It's said other applications bug if they don't 
convert ' ' to '%20'. If copy/paste was entirely broken, in SeaMonkey 
2.0.x that would be not only a regression, but a blocker imo; and I 
would be sure to devote resources to fix it, and happy to approve it 
landing in the 2.0 maintenance branch.



Here is a paste of:

directly from 2.0.11. There are of course more examples in the bug
report, but that one works for me.


Which is in and of itself not broken. Copy/Paste of it works. You just 
get spaces, which if you copy/paste that whole string back into 
SeaMonkey you'll load the page (at the anchor) correctly.



You know as well as I the release dates:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/Old

So my point&  questions stand.


I don't follow how release dates (from your links) further your point in 
any way.


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

On 12/29/2010 10:26 PM, NoOp wrote:

On 12/29/2010 06:33 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:

On 12/29/2010 5:07 PM, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:

- will provisions be made for importing/exporting lightning calendars?


That's my biggest concern, too.:-)


Lightning is an extension, one which does not directly provide support
for SeaMonkey, and is also [last I knew] currently targeting Gecko 1.9.2
which there was and is no SeaMonkey release on.

We as the Council hopes there is a suitable solution for lightning
users, and will support the efforts where possible, but I do not foresee
anyone from the SeaMonkey team devoting direct time to get export/import
improved in the near future.



I *highly* recommend that the "Council" sort out the issues (personal
and technical) with the SeaMonkey&  Lightning folks *before* any SM 2.1
release. If you don't then I suspect that you'll continue to lose space
with MS Office&  other browser/calendar integration offerings. IMO
seamless Lightning integration with SeaMonkey is critical to SeaMonkey's
future.


The problem is not one of desire or lack of effort. it is one of 
resources. We simply do not have the resources to support Lightning 
issues ourselves, Mozilla Messaging (Thunderbird) whom Lightning is 
targeting also are not able to devote time to help with critical bugs in 
Lightning at this time.


In the end, people chosing to use it [lightning] or not, it is an 
extension and we are 100% volunteers. Working on/with code that is much 
further in scope than either Firefox or Thunderbird [though some of the 
code is shared]. We do not have a single paid person working on SeaMonkey.


If lightning is THAT important to you, dare I ask you assist by devoting 
some of your time to keeping it working for SeaMonkey. it is the Human 
Resource issue that we have here, not knowledge or desire. So myself, 
any others from the SeaMonkey Council and/or any others from the 
calendar team will be perfectly willing to help coordinate your fixes 
where they are needed.


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[NoOp]

On 12/29/2010 06:33 PM, Justin Wood (Callek) wrote:
> On 12/29/2010 5:07 PM, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:
>>> - will provisions be made for importing/exporting lightning calendars?
>>
>> That's my biggest concern, too.:-)
> 
> Lightning is an extension, one which does not directly provide support 
> for SeaMonkey, and is also [last I knew] currently targeting Gecko 1.9.2 
> which there was and is no SeaMonkey release on.
> 
> We as the Council hopes there is a suitable solution for lightning 
> users, and will support the efforts where possible, but I do not foresee 
> anyone from the SeaMonkey team devoting direct time to get export/import 
> improved in the near future.
> 

Then you'd be seriously mistaken. Users have spent considerable time &
effort integrating lightning calendars & data into their systems. If you
think that there was backlash with SM 1.1.x and forms, wait until they
try 2.1 and try backing down to 2.0 and realize that their calendars no
longer are compatible.
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=1248265


I *highly* recommend that the "Council" sort out the issues (personal
and technical) with the SeaMonkey & Lightning folks *before* any SM 2.1
release. If you don't then I suspect that you'll continue to lose space
with MS Office & other browser/calendar integration offerings. IMO
seamless Lightning integration with SeaMonkey is critical to SeaMonkey's
future.



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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[NoOp]

On 12/29/2010 04:15 AM, Neil wrote:
> NoOp wrote:
> 
>> As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some
>> users to go from SM 1.x to 2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only"
>> mode, then I wonder if it is worth continuing with SeaMonkey
>> further.
>> 
>> 
> I think you have misunderstood the point of "maintenance". New
> features are always developed on trunk. At some point, we'll put a
> temporary freeze on new features, to allow as many remaining bugs in
> those features to be discovered and fixed. Locale strings are also
> normally frozen at this point. Eventually we decide we're ready and
> create a release branch. Development on the next version of SeaMonkey
> can then restart on trunk (in practice we don't have the resources
> for this until after the release.) Meanwhile the release branch fixes
> last-minute bugs at which point we can then release the x.x.0
> version. But that's not the end of the branch; bugs are always being
> found, and if they have a severe impact (e.g. data loss, crash) then
> they are fixed on the branch and typically every month a maintenance
> release containing these fixes is delivered.
> 

I don't think that I've misunderstood; the bug was opened in November
2009 with 2.0.1pre & 1.1.18. It was/is well documented, and is an
outstanding issue going back to January 2009 (Firefox), see:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=475896. It is NOT a "New
feature".

There are thousands of 2.0.x SeaMonkey users (at least one would hope
so) out there that still have this issue. Marking the bug as 'FIXED' on
a yet to be released 2.1 trunk IMO simply doesn't cut it IMO.

If we expect users to install 2.1pre versions simply so that they can
copy & paste a url from the url bar, then I suspect that no fixes in any
"current" version of SeaMonkey (http://www.seamonkey-project.org/) will
ever be satisfied.

Here is a paste of:

directly from 2.0.11. There are of course more examples in the bug
report, but that one works for me.

You know as well as I the release dates:

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases
https://wiki.mozilla.org/Releases/Old

So my point & questions stand.



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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

On 12/29/2010 5:07 PM, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:

As a 'User' of SeaMonkey (in both personal and production environments),
>  I'd appreciate an "official" comment from the SeaMonkey devs/project
>  management as to whether SeaMonkey 2.0 is "in maintenance mode" and if
>  "Only security and stability fixes are allowed" for 2.0.


I'm not an official voice for SeaMonkey Council, but I'm pretty sure
the above (both yours and mine) assertions are true.


They are both correct, and I am a [new, albeit not yet announced] member 
of the SeaMonkey Council.


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Justin Wood (Callek)]

On 12/29/2010 5:07 PM, Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:

- will provisions be made for importing/exporting lightning calendars?


That's my biggest concern, too.:-)


Lightning is an extension, one which does not directly provide support 
for SeaMonkey, and is also [last I knew] currently targeting Gecko 1.9.2 
which there was and is no SeaMonkey release on.


We as the Council hopes there is a suitable solution for lightning 
users, and will support the efforts where possible, but I do not foresee 
anyone from the SeaMonkey team devoting direct time to get export/import 
improved in the near future.


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[WLS]

Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez wrote:

NoOp escribió:

Phillip Chee pointed out this in:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531210


The SeaMonkey 2.0.x branch is in maintenance mode. Only security and
stability fixes are allowed.


If this is the case, then shouldn't standard users be notified of this on:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/
particularly since that is the "Official" download site and the supposed
official release of SeaMonkey?



Correct me if I'm wrong, but SeaMonkey 2.0.x entered into maintenance
mode since the 2.0.0 version, as usually happens with every Mozilla
product (the only exception I remember of is Firefox 3.6.4, when OOPP
feature was introduced).

Being in maintenance mode doesn't mean it is insecure or that it has
reached is End Of Life. It means that no new features will be added to
that branch. This is no news at all in Mozilla world since I remember
(and I'm involved as a localizer to it since 2002).



As a 'User' of SeaMonkey (in both personal and production environments),
I'd appreciate an "official" comment from the SeaMonkey devs/project
management as to whether SeaMonkey 2.0 is "in maintenance mode" and if
"Only security and stability fixes are allowed" for 2.0.



I'm not an official voice for SeaMonkey Council, but I'm pretty sure
the above (both yours and mine) assertions are true.



I'd also appreciate comments as to the direction of SeaMonkey;
- will users go through yet another SM 1.x to 2.0 transition in the near
future?



The transition will be 2.0 to 2.1 and it hopefully will be ready
shortly after Firefox 4 launch (although this largely depends of
available time of core contributors, besides how many people can help
with bugs).



- will provisions be made for importing/exporting lightning calendars?



That's my biggest concern, too. :-)



- what can users expect in the 2.0 to 2.1 transition?



If you test SM2.1b1, you can see most of the changes. From my own
experience, most of the changes are seamless and for the better; I
only found some problems importing bookmarks, but I didn't really try
it seriously. Well, and of course, Lightning doesn't work at all at
the moment.




Lightning 1.1a1pre (32-bit) works just fine for me in SM 2.1b2pre 
(32-bit) on openSUSE 11.3.


ftp://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/calendar/lightning/nightly/linux-xpi/

Look for the 12/27 1423 KB release, seems like the nightly hasn't been 
updated since then. Probably no 64-bit version.



As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some users to
go from SM 1.x to 2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only" mode, then I
wonder if it is worth continuing with SeaMonkey further.



I think you have misunderstood the meaning of "maintenance mode". It
has always been that way for every major release in Mozilla (as I
said, with the OOPP exception of Firefox 3.6.4) that no new features
are added and only security and stability fixes are provided for minor
releases.

HTH




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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Ricardo Palomares Martí­nez]

NoOp escribió:
> Phillip Chee pointed out this in:
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531210
> 
> 
> The SeaMonkey 2.0.x branch is in maintenance mode. Only security and
> stability fixes are allowed.
> 
> 
> If this is the case, then shouldn't standard users be notified of this on:
> http://www.seamonkey-project.org/
> particularly since that is the "Official" download site and the supposed
> official release of SeaMonkey?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but SeaMonkey 2.0.x entered into maintenance
mode since the 2.0.0 version, as usually happens with every Mozilla
product (the only exception I remember of is Firefox 3.6.4, when OOPP
feature was introduced).

Being in maintenance mode doesn't mean it is insecure or that it has
reached is End Of Life. It means that no new features will be added to
that branch. This is no news at all in Mozilla world since I remember
(and I'm involved as a localizer to it since 2002).


> As a 'User' of SeaMonkey (in both personal and production environments),
> I'd appreciate an "official" comment from the SeaMonkey devs/project
> management as to whether SeaMonkey 2.0 is "in maintenance mode" and if
> "Only security and stability fixes are allowed" for 2.0.


I'm not an official voice for SeaMonkey Council, but I'm pretty sure
the above (both yours and mine) assertions are true.


> I'd also appreciate comments as to the direction of SeaMonkey;
> - will users go through yet another SM 1.x to 2.0 transition in the near
> future?


The transition will be 2.0 to 2.1 and it hopefully will be ready
shortly after Firefox 4 launch (although this largely depends of
available time of core contributors, besides how many people can help
with bugs).


> - will provisions be made for importing/exporting lightning calendars?


That's my biggest concern, too. :-)


> - what can users expect in the 2.0 to 2.1 transition?


If you test SM2.1b1, you can see most of the changes. From my own
experience, most of the changes are seamless and for the better; I
only found some problems importing bookmarks, but I didn't really try
it seriously. Well, and of course, Lightning doesn't work at all at
the moment.


> As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some users to
> go from SM 1.x to 2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only" mode, then I
> wonder if it is worth continuing with SeaMonkey further.


I think you have misunderstood the meaning of "maintenance mode". It
has always been that way for every major release in Mozilla (as I
said, with the OOPP exception of Firefox 3.6.4) that no new features
are added and only security and stability fixes are provided for minor
releases.

HTH

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Ray_Net]

Neil wrote:

NoOp wrote:


As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some users
to go from SM 1.x to 2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only" mode, then
I wonder if it is worth continuing with SeaMonkey further.



I think you have misunderstood the point of "maintenance". New features
are always developed on trunk. At some point, we'll put a temporary
freeze on new features, to allow as many remaining bugs in those
features to be discovered and fixed. Locale strings are also normally
frozen at this point. Eventually we decide we're ready and create a
release branch. Development on the next version of SeaMonkey can then
restart on trunk (in practice we don't have the resources for this until
after the release.) Meanwhile the release branch fixes last-minute bugs
at which point we can then release the x.x.0 version. But that's not the
end of the branch; bugs are always being found, and if they have a
severe impact (e.g. data loss, crash) then they are fixed on the branch
and typically every month a maintenance release containing these fixes
is delivered.


IMHO: The best way if life/status is:
1. Days for creating and testing the new release.
2. The day of the release.
3. Days for staying in maintenance mode.
The ending time of the status 3 will be better in the middel of the 
status 3 of the next new release/major version.

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[Neil]

NoOp wrote:


As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some users to go from SM 1.x to 
2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only" mode, then I wonder if it is worth 
continuing with SeaMonkey further.
 

I think you have misunderstood the point of "maintenance". New features 
are always developed on trunk. At some point, we'll put a temporary 
freeze on new features, to allow as many remaining bugs in those 
features to be discovered and fixed. Locale strings are also normally 
frozen at this point. Eventually we decide we're ready and create a 
release branch. Development on the next version of SeaMonkey can then 
restart on trunk (in practice we don't have the resources for this until 
after the release.) Meanwhile the release branch fixes last-minute bugs 
at which point we can then release the x.x.0 version. But that's not the 
end of the branch; bugs are always being found, and if they have a 
severe impact (e.g. data loss, crash) then they are fixed on the branch 
and typically every month a maintenance release containing these fixes 
is delivered.


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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 Maintenence Mode?

[WLS]

NoOp wrote:

Phillip Chee pointed out this in:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=531210


The SeaMonkey 2.0.x branch is in maintenance mode. Only security and
stability fixes are allowed.


If this is the case, then shouldn't standard users be notified of this on:
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/
particularly since that is the "Official" download site and the supposed
official release of SeaMonkey?

As a 'User' of SeaMonkey (in both personal and production environments),
I'd appreciate an "official" comment from the SeaMonkey devs/project
management as to whether SeaMonkey 2.0 is "in maintenance mode" and if
"Only security and stability fixes are allowed" for 2.0.

I'd also appreciate comments as to the direction of SeaMonkey;
- will users go through yet another SM 1.x to 2.0 transition in the near
future?
- will provisions be made for importing/exporting lightning calendars?
- what can users expect in the 2.0 to 2.1 transition?

SeaMonkey 2.1 is in "beta" and has not yet been released.
http://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/2.1b1

Be careful! The SeaMonkey version available for download on this page is
a testing-only preview of the next generation of our Internet suite.
Please test it carefully, it's not yet in a state where we can encourage
you to use it for daily browsing and mail operations.
For daily use, we strongly advise you to download the current stable
release instead.


As you all know, it was a pretty difficult transition for some users to
go from SM 1.x to 2.0. If 2.0 is now "maintenance only" mode, then I
wonder if it is worth continuing with SeaMonkey further.

Followup-To set for mozilla.support.seamonkey as this is an user
issue/concern.


I don't know what you are trying to convey here, but I have been using 
SM 2.1b2pre (32-bit) exclusively ever since it became available. Never 
went from v1.x to v2.0.x.


I have a separate profile for it, imported bookmarks, created email and 
newsgroup accounts, installed Lightning 1.1a1pre and it all functions 
beautifully.


You will be impressed.

WLS

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 How do I lock the start-up mail directory structure displayed in the sidebar?

[Hartmut Figge]

Bill Davidsen:
>Hartmut Figge wrote:

>> - user.js -
>> user_pref("news.persist_server_open_state_in_folderpane", true)
>> ---
>
>That doesn't show up in about:config for SM2, does for SM 1.1.xx. Some other 
>value there? Just user-defining it?

Hm. Interesting. I have now tested it. You are right, this pref is no
longer needed and greping the source shows that is not there.

Hartmut
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 How do I lock the start-up mail directory structure displayed in the sidebar?

[Bill Davidsen]

Hartmut Figge wrote:

John:


I've got one computer that preserves the way I want the mail storage
directory structure to display at start-up.  On another computer it
collapses to Local Folders at every start-up and expands to show
everything instead of the way it was last left.  I've gone through the
config file and the entries that seem like they might be connected to
this are the same on both machines.


Not sure if i understand correctly. Maybe this pref helps:

- user.js -
user_pref("news.persist_server_open_state_in_folderpane", true)
---

Hartmut
That doesn't show up in about:config for SM2, does for SM 1.1.xx. Some other 
value there? Just user-defining it?


--
Bill Davidsen 
  "We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from
the machinations of the wicked."  - from Slashdot
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 How do I lock the start-up mail directory structure displayed in the sidebar?

[Hartmut Figge]

Hartmut Figge:

>user_pref("news.persist_server_open_state_in_folderpane", true)

C&P error. There should be a semicolon at the end. ;)
user_pref("news.persist_server_open_state_in_folderpane", true);

Hartmut
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 How do I lock the start-up mail directory structure displayed in the sidebar?

[Hartmut Figge]

John:

>I've got one computer that preserves the way I want the mail storage
>directory structure to display at start-up.  On another computer it
>collapses to Local Folders at every start-up and expands to show
>everything instead of the way it was last left.  I've gone through the
>config file and the entries that seem like they might be connected to
>this are the same on both machines.

Not sure if i understand correctly. Maybe this pref helps:

- user.js -
user_pref("news.persist_server_open_state_in_folderpane", true)
---

Hartmut
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 problem

[jim]

On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:31:43 -0500, Mort  in
mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote




>> Your mention of the name "abook"however, makes me think you are talking
>> about you e-mail addressbook. If this is your problem, click on the
>> Addressbook Icon at the bottom left of your mail screen, and then select
>> Tools=>Import.
>>
>> HTH
>>
>> Daniel
>Hi Daniel,
>
>Thanks for your reply. Following your advice, I imported my old address 
>book (abook) to my newest SM one, and got 471 items. Unfortunately, they 
>are not in the usual format. Instead, I have 471 small icons at the left 
>of the screen. Clicking on one at a time gives me only the first and 
>last name of the addressee, and no e-mail address. I am perplexed.
>
>Mort


Are you sure it is not a CSV?

--OR--

Does the top of the file, opened in an editor (I'm sure Notepad would do),
look like this:



// 
< <(a=c)> // (f=iso-8859-1)
  (B8=Custom4)(B9=Notes)(BA=LastModifiedDate)(BB=RecordKey)
  (BC=AddrCharSet)(BD=LastRecordKey)(BE=ns:addrbk:db:table:kind:pab)
  (BF=ListName)(C0=ListNickName)(C1=ListDescription)
  (C2=ListTotalAddresses)(C3=LowercaseListName)
  (C4=ns:addrbk:db:table:kind:deleted)(C5=PalmRecId)(C6=Address1)
  (C7=Address2)(C8=Address3)(C9=Address4)(CA=PopularityIndex)
  (CB=AllowRemoteContent)(CC=DbRowID)(80=ns:addrbk:db:row:scope:card:all)

~~~
What is the file extension?

jim
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 problem

[jim]

On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 05:10:04 -0800 (PST), Billy  in
mozilla.support.seamonkey wrote:

> I followed the instruction to completely clear my older version
>of Seamonkey and have now paid a terrible price for doing this.  I now
>have completely lost my entire email address books (3 of them).  More
>importantly, my complete bookmark file with many years of research was
>also gone.
> I appreciate your work to improve Seamonkey.  However, your
>failure to address this possibility in your download instructions has
>made this program useless to me.  Looks like I will have to move on
>and start all over again with my research.  Bummer!

If they are deleted files, at this point you have probably not actually
lost any of those files. Whether retrieval attempts are worthwhile has to
be weighed on how important they are.

If your disk is over half full and you do a lot of data churning on your
harddrive, the possibility of retrieval is diminished.

A lot of variables are involved.

If they are deleted files, get the latest version of RECUVA by Piriform
and give it a test on it's fast scan and then deep scan and see if it is
worth the time.

(I am keeping in mind that "lost" may mean deleted or it may mean you are
just unaware of where to look for them and if the latter, try a file
manager like ZTREE to view the entire disk contents and if you know even a
piece of the physical name you can find the file -- or -- if you know a
piece of internal data, like an address, you can find all occurrences of
that.)

How long any of this takes depends largely on the disk size.

And, a lot of this depends on you knowing the physical file name(s). 

jim
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 problem

[Mort]

Daniel wrote:

Mort wrote:

Billy wrote:

I followed the instruction to completely clear my older version
of Seamonkey and have now paid a terrible price for doing this. I now
have completely lost my entire email address books (3 of them). More
importantly, my complete bookmark file with many years of research was
also gone.
I appreciate your work to improve Seamonkey. However, your
failure to address this possibility in your download instructions has
made this program useless to me. Looks like I will have to move on
and start all over again with my research. Bummer!


Hi,

Along these lines, when my Vista Home Premium worked poorly, a
commercial computer tech switched my PC to run Windows XP Pro. Most
things are stable since then, but I have an address book problem. My old
and lengthy address book did not carry over to XP. My hard drive has all
my old address book listings under "abook.", but in narrative text form.
Try as I may, I cannot migrate it to the address book in SeaMonkey,
where only my newer addresses are listed properly in nested categories
that are clickable. Any help with this problem will be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,

Mort Linder


Mort, I don't know what you have tried, but have you tried opening your
Bookmarks folder (in SeaMonkey, in a browser window, select
Bookmarks->Manage Bookmarks, then under Tools, select Import, select
File and then point to your bookmarks file.

Your mention of the name "abook"however, makes me think you are talking
about you e-mail addressbook. If this is your problem, click on the
Addressbook Icon at the bottom left of your mail screen, and then select
Tools=>Import.

HTH

Daniel

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for your reply. Following your advice, I imported my old address 
book (abook) to my newest SM one, and got 471 items. Unfortunately, they 
are not in the usual format. Instead, I have 471 small icons at the left 
of the screen. Clicking on one at a time gives me only the first and 
last name of the addressee, and no e-mail address. I am perplexed.


Mort
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 problem

[Daniel]

Mort wrote:

Billy wrote:

I followed the instruction to completely clear my older version
of Seamonkey and have now paid a terrible price for doing this. I now
have completely lost my entire email address books (3 of them). More
importantly, my complete bookmark file with many years of research was
also gone.
I appreciate your work to improve Seamonkey. However, your
failure to address this possibility in your download instructions has
made this program useless to me. Looks like I will have to move on
and start all over again with my research. Bummer!


Hi,

Along these lines, when my Vista Home Premium worked poorly, a
commercial computer tech switched my PC to run Windows XP Pro. Most
things are stable since then, but I have an address book problem. My old
and lengthy address book did not carry over to XP. My hard drive has all
my old address book listings under "abook.", but in narrative text form.
Try as I may, I cannot migrate it to the address book in SeaMonkey,
where only my newer addresses are listed properly in nested categories
that are clickable. Any help with this problem will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mort Linder


Mort, I don't know what you have tried, but have you tried opening your 
Bookmarks folder (in SeaMonkey, in a browser window, select 
Bookmarks->Manage Bookmarks, then under Tools, select Import, select 
File and then point to your bookmarks file.


Your mention of the name "abook"however, makes me think you are talking 
about you e-mail addressbook. If this is your problem, click on the 
Addressbook Icon at the bottom left of your mail screen, and then select 
Tools=>Import.


HTH

Daniel
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 problem

[Mort]

Billy wrote:

  I followed the instruction to completely clear my older version
of Seamonkey and have now paid a terrible price for doing this.  I now
have completely lost my entire email address books (3 of them).  More
importantly, my complete bookmark file with many years of research was
also gone.
  I appreciate your work to improve Seamonkey.  However, your
failure to address this possibility in your download instructions has
made this program useless to me.  Looks like I will have to move on
and start all over again with my research.  Bummer!


Hi,

Along these lines, when my Vista Home Premium worked poorly, a 
commercial computer tech switched my PC to run Windows XP Pro. Most 
things are stable since then, but I have an address book problem. My old 
and lengthy address book did not carry over to XP. My hard drive has all 
my old address book listings under "abook.", but in narrative text form. 
Try as I may, I cannot migrate it to the address book in SeaMonkey, 
where only my newer addresses are listed properly in nested categories 
that are clickable. Any help with this problem will be greatly appreciated.


Thanks,

Mort Linder
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 problem

[Klaus Weber]

I could resolve this problem by moving the seamonkey file from 
c:/documents and settings/mozilla.org to c:/documents and settings. From 
there the data could be imported.



Graham schrieb:

Billy wrote:

  I followed the instruction to completely clear my older version
of Seamonkey and have now paid a terrible price for doing this.  I now
have completely lost my entire email address books (3 of them).  More
importantly, my complete bookmark file with many years of research was
also gone.
  I appreciate your work to improve Seamonkey.  However, your
failure to address this possibility in your download instructions has
made this program useless to me.  Looks like I will have to move on
and start all over again with my research.  Bummer!


Unless you deliberately, manually, removed your old profile, it is 
still there, but apparently did not get migrated when you first 
started SM2 (you'll find a number of other instances of this occurring 
if you do a little searching in this newsgroup). You just need to find 
it. You might try re-installing the previous version of Seamonkey: it 
should find and use your old profile.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 problem

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/22/2009 5:10 AM, Billy wrote:
>  I followed the instruction to completely clear my older version
> of Seamonkey and have now paid a terrible price for doing this.  I now
> have completely lost my entire email address books (3 of them).  More
> importantly, my complete bookmark file with many years of research was
> also gone.
>  I appreciate your work to improve Seamonkey.  However, your
> failure to address this possibility in your download instructions has
> made this program useless to me.  Looks like I will have to move on
> and start all over again with my research.  Bummer!

All of your address books, e-mail, settings, etc. are stored in your
"Profile". None of the instructions should have told you to delete
your profile.

It sounds more like you installed SM 2.0 and your SM 1.1.X profile was
not migrated properly. When you run SM 2.0, you won't see any of your
personal data, and this can look shocking.

Assuming you're willing to work with the folks here trying to help
(your message implies otherwise), then just ask and see who can
help.

Best of luck.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 problem

[Graham]

Billy wrote:

  I followed the instruction to completely clear my older version
of Seamonkey and have now paid a terrible price for doing this.  I now
have completely lost my entire email address books (3 of them).  More
importantly, my complete bookmark file with many years of research was
also gone.
  I appreciate your work to improve Seamonkey.  However, your
failure to address this possibility in your download instructions has
made this program useless to me.  Looks like I will have to move on
and start all over again with my research.  Bummer!


Unless you deliberately, manually, removed your old profile, it is still 
there, but apparently did not get migrated when you first started SM2 
(you'll find a number of other instances of this occurring if you do a 
little searching in this newsgroup). You just need to find it. You might 
try re-installing the previous version of Seamonkey: it should find and 
use your old profile.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0, support for html attributes 'ALT' and 'TITLE'

[Lucas Levrel]

Le 18 décembre 2009, Lucas Levrel a écrit :


Le 11 décembre 2009, »Q« a écrit :


There's a 'No Tooltip Timeout' extension for current versions of Fx,
but I don't know if it can work with SeaMonkey.



Thanks! I got it to work with SM. Here's how:

(snip)

I then contacted the author and he made these changes to the addon, which 
should now be compatible "out of the box" with SM.


Go to:
https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/firefox/addons/versions/11233

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0, support for html attributes 'ALT' and 'TITLE'

[Lucas Levrel]

Le 18 décembre 2009, Benoit Renard a écrit :


Lucas Levrel wrote:

1) force its installation
- in about:config, create a new string general.useragent.extra.firefox and
  set it to Firefox/3.5
- in about:config set extensions.checkCompatibility to false
- install from the above link


This isn't how you should go about things. It's a bit pointless when you tell 
the reader in step two how to make the extension compatible.


It's not pointless when one doesn't know another method to download it. 
When you left click, you get a popup suggesting you should try Firefox. 
How is one supposed to guess that right clicking will download it 
nevertheless?


Thanks for giving the right way.

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[Robert Kaiser]

Mobius wrote:

I have looked around for the specific information I was looking for
regarding the Composer component of SeaMonkey 2.0.  All I found was a
short thread from June 2008 that intimated that Composer was not being
supported any longer.  That is too bad.  Of course, if Kompozer was
still being updated, and it was integrated into SeaMonkey, that would
be great.  I use Kompozer (and wondered if it had been abandoned,
too.)


Exactly that is the plan. For now, the old Composer is mostly unchanged 
in what SeaMonkey 2.0 ships, but we'll start working on improvements 
together with the KompoZer team soon.



Again, I suspect that it is moot, AND I did not know where else to
report it.


If it still happens in SeaMonkey 2.0 Composer, it's probably not moot, 
the place to report it at is https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/


Robert Kaiser
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[Mobius]

On Dec 18, 9:15 am, Robert Kaiser  wrote:
> Ray_Net wrote:
> > In SM 1.1.xx the second method was prefered because the first method did
> > not clean all registry entries. After a while, there are in the registry
> > traces about 1.1.9 , 1.1.10, 1.1.11, 1.1.12, etc 
>
> > Is this "little bug" corrected ? Sure ?
>
> As far as I know, it is. We completely rewrote the whole installer and
> OS handling code. And the internal update function doesn't even use the
> installer. ;-)
>
> Robert Kaiser

I have looked around for the specific information I was looking for
regarding the Composer component of SeaMonkey 2.0.  All I found was a
short thread from June 2008 that intimated that Composer was not being
supported any longer.  That is too bad.  Of course, if Kompozer was
still being updated, and it was integrated into SeaMonkey, that would
be great.  I use Kompozer (and wondered if it had been abandoned,
too.)

I wanted to point out a bug in SeaMonkey Composer, but I suppose it is
moot now.

FYI, the bug is that when Composer is used to open a page, at the word
wrap points it converts 0x20 to 0x0d0a (CRLF) for viewing in the
Composer window, but it does not convert the 0x0d0a back to 0x20 upon
saving the file under Composer.

Again, I suspect that it is moot, AND I did not know where else to
report it.  I have to avoid Composer now because of this bug.  It is
too hard to go back into it and edit the file.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0, support for html attributes 'ALT' and 'TITLE'

[Benoit Renard]

Lucas Levrel wrote:

1) force its installation
- in about:config, create a new string general.useragent.extra.firefox and
  set it to Firefox/3.5
- in about:config set extensions.checkCompatibility to false
- install from the above link


This isn't how you should go about things. It's a bit pointless when you 
tell the reader in step two how to make the extension compatible. You 
don't even tell the reader to undo the changes done in step 1 afterwards.


The better way is to download the .xpi file (right-click > save target 
as...), open it with your favourite archive program (eg WinZip), and 
then edit the files in it as mentioned in step 2. Then open the .xpi 
file with SeaMonkey, and install it.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0, support for html attributes 'ALT' and 'TITLE'

[Lucas Levrel]

Le 11 décembre 2009, »Q« a écrit :


Not in 2.0, but in a future version there should be the option to have
them display as long as the cursor is stationary over the element.
It's already in the Firefox 3.6 betas.

There's a 'No Tooltip Timeout' extension for current versions of Fx,
but I don't know if it can work with SeaMonkey.



Thanks! I got it to work with SM. Here's how:
1) force its installation
- in about:config, create a new string general.useragent.extra.firefox and
  set it to Firefox/3.5
- in about:config set extensions.checkCompatibility to false
- install from the above link

2) go to /extensions/notooltiptime...@extensions.geckozone.org/
- edit chrome.manifest and change the first line to:

overlay chrome://navigator/content/navigator.xul
chrome://notooltiptimeout/content/notooltiptimeoutOverlay.xul

- edit install.rdf and add this, just past one of the other
  "targetApplication" section: (I think this step is not required to make
  it work but that suppresses the warning about incompatibility in Add-on
  Manager, and one should then be able to revert
  extensions.checkCompatibility to true)




{92650c4d-4b8e-4d2a-b7eb-24ecf4f6b63a}
2.0
2.*



3) restart SM and enjoy!

I hope this helps someone!

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[Robert Kaiser]

Ray_Net wrote:

In SM 1.1.xx the second method was prefered because the first method did
not clean all registry entries. After a while, there are in the registry
traces about 1.1.9 , 1.1.10, 1.1.11, 1.1.12, etc 

Is this "little bug" corrected ? Sure ?


As far as I know, it is. We completely rewrote the whole installer and 
OS handling code. And the internal update function doesn't even use the 
installer. ;-)


Robert Kaiser
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[Jens Hatlak]

OBones wrote:
>> On the SeaMonkey menu bar, select [Edit>  Preferences].  In the
>> Preferences window, select [Advanced>  Software Install].  On the
>> Software Installation pane, uncheck the checkboxes under Updates.
>>
>> Unlike some other update capabilities, however, you will then no longer
>> get even a notice about updates.  For SeaMonkey itself, updates are
>> announced in this newsgroup.
> 
> It would be nice to have the old behaviour as well, where it checks for
> update but asks if it should install it or not.

Maybe setting app.update.auto to false in about:config will do that, I
didn't try.

HTH

Jens

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SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker 
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[Arne]

David E. Ross wrote:

On 12/16/2009 3:31 PM, taz043 wrote:

When I opened SeaMonkey this afternoon it started automatically to
update itself to 2.01.  How do I shut off automatic updating?  I don't
want any software to update itself without asking me first.

taz


On the SeaMonkey menu bar, select [Edit>  Preferences].  In the
Preferences window, select [Advanced>  Software Install].  On the
Software Installation pane, uncheck the checkboxes under Updates.

Unlike some other update capabilities, however, you will then no longer
get even a notice about updates.  For SeaMonkey itself, updates are
announced in this newsgroup.


I have all those checked, and I have seen the notice that 2.0.1 is 
available. But there was no automatic update, "About Seamonkey" still 
says I have SM 2.0


Build identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; 
rv:1.9.1.4) Gecko/20091017 SeaMonkey/2.0


So I understand the check boxes are only to get automatic check (and 
information) when updates are available, *not* automatic updates.


Can somebody make it clear what is correct?

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[taz043]

OBones wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

On 12/16/2009 3:31 PM, taz043 wrote:

When I opened SeaMonkey this afternoon it started automatically to
update itself to 2.01. How do I shut off automatic updating? I don't
want any software to update itself without asking me first.

taz


On the SeaMonkey menu bar, select [Edit> Preferences]. In the
Preferences window, select [Advanced> Software Install]. On the
Software Installation pane, uncheck the checkboxes under Updates.

Unlike some other update capabilities, however, you will then no longer
get even a notice about updates. For SeaMonkey itself, updates are
announced in this newsgroup.


It would be nice to have the old behaviour as well, where it checks for
update but asks if it should install it or not.
This way I can say "no, not now" because I don't have the time to do so
at that moment.
Thanks for the information.  I feel the same way as OBones , I would 
prefer the option of saying when or if I want the updates.

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[OBones]

David E. Ross wrote:

On 12/16/2009 3:31 PM, taz043 wrote:

When I opened SeaMonkey this afternoon it started automatically to
update itself to 2.01.  How do I shut off automatic updating?  I don't
want any software to update itself without asking me first.

taz


On the SeaMonkey menu bar, select [Edit>  Preferences].  In the
Preferences window, select [Advanced>  Software Install].  On the
Software Installation pane, uncheck the checkboxes under Updates.

Unlike some other update capabilities, however, you will then no longer
get even a notice about updates.  For SeaMonkey itself, updates are
announced in this newsgroup.


It would be nice to have the old behaviour as well, where it checks for 
update but asks if it should install it or not.
This way I can say "no, not now" because I don't have the time to do so 
at that moment.

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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[Ray_Net]

Robert Kaiser wrote:

David E. Ross wrote:

Unlike some other update capabilities, however, you will then no longer
get even a notice about updates.  For SeaMonkey itself, updates are
announced in this newsgroup.


You still can manually go into Help > Check For Updates... though to 
trigger installing updates yourself.



"Updates" vs "uninstall then install new version"

In SM 1.1.xx the second method was prefered because the first method did 
not clean all registry entries. After a while, there are in the registry 
traces about 1.1.9 , 1.1.10, 1.1.11, 1.1.12, etc 


Is this "little bug" corrected ? Sure ?
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[Robert Kaiser]

David E. Ross wrote:

Unlike some other update capabilities, however, you will then no longer
get even a notice about updates.  For SeaMonkey itself, updates are
announced in this newsgroup.


You still can manually go into Help > Check For Updates... though to 
trigger installing updates yourself.


Robert Kaiser
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Re: SeaMonkey 2.0 update

[David E. Ross]

On 12/16/2009 3:31 PM, taz043 wrote:
> When I opened SeaMonkey this afternoon it started automatically to 
> update itself to 2.01.  How do I shut off automatic updating?  I don't 
> want any software to update itself without asking me first.
> 
> taz

On the SeaMonkey menu bar, select [Edit > Preferences].  In the
Preferences window, select [Advanced > Software Install].  On the
Software Installation pane, uncheck the checkboxes under Updates.

Unlike some other update capabilities, however, you will then no longer
get even a notice about updates.  For SeaMonkey itself, updates are
announced in this newsgroup.

-- 
David E. Ross


Go to Mozdev at  for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Robert Kaiser]

Jens Hatlak wrote:

Update: They just removed the ability to import the old form history format:


Probably doesn't touch us much, as we didn't import form history from 
1.x in any case, from all I know.


Robert Kaiser
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Jens Hatlak]

Jens Hatlak wrote:
> Hartmut Figge wrote:
>>> Let's just hope someone will come up with some sort of migration tool 
>>> extension.
>>
>> In what bug the ability was removed?
> 
> The ability to import the old download history format was removed with:
> 
> 

Update: They just removed the ability to import the old form history format:



By the time 2.1 (*not* 2.0.1 which is scheduled for next Tuesday!) hits
the road the SM importer will either be totally crippled or
rewritten/ported to SM-specific code. Guess what's more likely...

Greetings,

Jens

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SeaMonkey Trunk Tracker 
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[NoOp]

On 12/12/2009 07:13 PM, John Boyle wrote:
..
>>   
> To NoOp: STOP YOURSELF: I finally say something reasonable and , I must
> say very personal, and you want to go off in a tangent! It so happens I
> have a BSM, myself and a few others besides: I only mentioned that and
> other parts of the statement because Robert Kaiser DID make a funny, and
> I was letting him know I appreciated it! I have never pushed my being a
> Vet on anyone on this newsgroup, only made strong mention of my health
> and why I got angry! I was trying to GIVE IT A REST, and he even did
> send me some information on exactly what I needed, but I again ran into
> trouble! I intend starting a new thread, without CAPS, if I can, going
> over my problems with the addressbook migration! Ironically, I cannot
> even send any messages to the newsgroup in 2.0, and that is why I am
> doing so here and now! As for Linux, that was not meant as any slam, but
> the so-called local help, here where I live, is even worse than anything
> I have said about 2.0!! :-(
> 

OK. Peace. :-)

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[John Boyle]

NoOp wrote:
> On 12/11/2009 08:10 PM, John Boyle wrote:
>
>   
>> To Robert Kaiser: I have to laugh because you finally made a funny but
>> not really sarcastic joke! I spent 21 years in the Army, 
>> 
>
> I'll only say this once:
>
> Stop.
>
> Nobody cares that you spent 21 years in the Army (I spent over 10 years
> in the US Army and I'm a Vietnam Vet... that along with my BSM and/or my
> VCG plus $5 will get me a cup of coffee now days).
>   You do know what a BSM is don't you? How about a VCG?
> The fact that you keep bringing this up is embarassing to all of the
> rest of us military veterans (and there are many from many countries
> that frequent this group and/or support list).
>
> You have, for a very long time, harrassed this list with similar posts.
> Folks have tried their best to assist you (archives will show), but you
> continue to blast back with these posts.
>
> *Please* if you'd like help with SeaMonkey, limit your posts to a
> subject with the problem issue, a clear definition of what the problem
> is, and *then* perhaps someone can assist.
>
> Your continued attacks on developers, other users that try to assist
> you, and the world in general just isn't working. If you persist then:
> 1) people will simply killfile you and ignore any further posts from you
> (anyone need instructions on how to do this?), 2) someone will
> eventually blast back with a flame regarding your posts... and I don't
> thing anyone here wishes to see that, or 3) someone will take the
> initiative and simply remove you/block you from the group/list. You can
> then wander off to IE/other browser/email land and nobody will give a hoot.
> Please see:
> http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html
>
> As for your repeated attacks on Robert Kaiser; I realize he needs no
> defense here but I'll say my 2 cents:
> Robert/Kairo is a lynchpin for this project and repeatedly gives his
> time and effort to SeaMonkey. My guess is, that were it not for Robert's
> efforts, SeaMonkey would pretty much be dead by now [1].
>
> SeaMonkey 2.x, with perhaps the problems with *some* 1.1.18 profile
> migration, and the form manager issue, is in my opinion probably the
> best thing that has ever happened to SeaMonkey. And yes Virginia, I
> still have my original Netscape floppy along with my original Netscape
> license.
>
> So give it a rest folks; work with the
> people/developers/user-testers/others that brought SeaMonkey 2.x to
> life. Help resolve issues, file bug reports as you find them, and
> perhaps most of all remember that this is "mozilla.support.seamonkey".
>
> [1]
> Before anyone chimes in about icons etc., I too have had my difference
> of opinions with Robert, but I'll tell you what; I sincerely appreciate
> his continued efforts, work, and promotion of SeaMonkey as well of the
> excellent efforts of all SeaMonkey volunteers.
>  Yes, I'd like to see the download icons changed... they will in time.
> ___
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>
>   
To NoOp: STOP YOURSELF: I finally say something reasonable and , I must
say very personal, and you want to go off in a tangent! It so happens I
have a BSM, myself and a few others besides: I only mentioned that and
other parts of the statement because Robert Kaiser DID make a funny, and
I was letting him know I appreciated it! I have never pushed my being a
Vet on anyone on this newsgroup, only made strong mention of my health
and why I got angry! I was trying to GIVE IT A REST, and he even did
send me some information on exactly what I needed, but I again ran into
trouble! I intend starting a new thread, without CAPS, if I can, going
over my problems with the addressbook migration! Ironically, I cannot
even send any messages to the newsgroup in 2.0, and that is why I am
doing so here and now! As for Linux, that was not meant as any slam, but
the so-called local help, here where I live, is even worse than anything
I have said about 2.0!! :-(

-- 
Old Sarge-John Boyle
IN GOD WE TRUST!

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Robert Kaiser]

John Boyle wrote:

To Robert Kaiser: Then, you start, by explaining how, on earth, does one
migrate ones Addressbooks intact to SM2, in detail, PLEASE!???


First, it would probably be better to start a new thread for this, as it 
becomes hard to find buried in that quite badly named thread it's in 
right now.


That said, there are multiple ways:

1) The easiest solution is to let 2.0(.x) import your whole 1.x profile. 
That should be offered automatically when no 2.0 profile is present yet 
and your 1.x profile is correctly registered (should be the case when 
1.x find it). If you have no useful/important data in your 2.0 profile 
yet, you can try moving your complete 2.0 profile directories (Documents 
and Settings\\Application Data\Mozilla\SeaMonkey) out of the 
way and then launching 2.0 (or even better 2.0.1, candidate builds are 
available right now) again.


2) If you want to import all your mail data from a usable profile from 
the old version into an existing new profile, you can use Tools > 
Import... from a mailnews or address book window, select "Import 
Everything" and in the next step "SeaMonkey 1.x, ...", one step further, 
the profile you want to import from, and then you should get all this 
data imported automatically.


3) You can open the address book window in 1.x, go to Tools > Export... 
and export your address books in LDIF format. From 2.0, you can use 
Tools > Import... in the address book window with the "Address Books" 
option to import those into the new version.


4) The most manual variant, which you should only use if none of the 
others applies or works correctly, is first creating empty new address 
books for those in the new profile, and then replacing their on-disk 
files in the new profile with copies of the files from the old profiles. 
If you really need to resort to that option, please ask about it in a 
new thread here and I'm sure someone will be able to help you with more 
specific instructions, but you usually should not need this option.


I hope one of those variants can help you.

Robert Kaiser
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[NoOp]

On 12/11/2009 08:10 PM, John Boyle wrote:

> To Robert Kaiser: I have to laugh because you finally made a funny but
> not really sarcastic joke! I spent 21 years in the Army, 

I'll only say this once:

Stop.

Nobody cares that you spent 21 years in the Army (I spent over 10 years
in the US Army and I'm a Vietnam Vet... that along with my BSM and/or my
VCG plus $5 will get me a cup of coffee now days).
  You do know what a BSM is don't you? How about a VCG?
The fact that you keep bringing this up is embarassing to all of the
rest of us military veterans (and there are many from many countries
that frequent this group and/or support list).

You have, for a very long time, harrassed this list with similar posts.
Folks have tried their best to assist you (archives will show), but you
continue to blast back with these posts.

*Please* if you'd like help with SeaMonkey, limit your posts to a
subject with the problem issue, a clear definition of what the problem
is, and *then* perhaps someone can assist.

Your continued attacks on developers, other users that try to assist
you, and the world in general just isn't working. If you persist then:
1) people will simply killfile you and ignore any further posts from you
(anyone need instructions on how to do this?), 2) someone will
eventually blast back with a flame regarding your posts... and I don't
thing anyone here wishes to see that, or 3) someone will take the
initiative and simply remove you/block you from the group/list. You can
then wander off to IE/other browser/email land and nobody will give a hoot.
Please see:
http://www.mozilla.org/community/etiquette.html

As for your repeated attacks on Robert Kaiser; I realize he needs no
defense here but I'll say my 2 cents:
Robert/Kairo is a lynchpin for this project and repeatedly gives his
time and effort to SeaMonkey. My guess is, that were it not for Robert's
efforts, SeaMonkey would pretty much be dead by now [1].

SeaMonkey 2.x, with perhaps the problems with *some* 1.1.18 profile
migration, and the form manager issue, is in my opinion probably the
best thing that has ever happened to SeaMonkey. And yes Virginia, I
still have my original Netscape floppy along with my original Netscape
license.

So give it a rest folks; work with the
people/developers/user-testers/others that brought SeaMonkey 2.x to
life. Help resolve issues, file bug reports as you find them, and
perhaps most of all remember that this is "mozilla.support.seamonkey".

[1]
Before anyone chimes in about icons etc., I too have had my difference
of opinions with Robert, but I'll tell you what; I sincerely appreciate
his continued efforts, work, and promotion of SeaMonkey as well of the
excellent efforts of all SeaMonkey volunteers.
 Yes, I'd like to see the download icons changed... they will in time.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[John Boyle]

Robert Kaiser wrote:
> John Boyle wrote:
>> you just seem to be as Imperial Minded as
>> the Kaiser was in WWI!
>
> Right, that's why he had already introduced UK-style democracy in
> mostz parts of his monarchy.
>
> Interestingly, you haven't understood yet that joking on someone's
> name will not make him like you better, though I thought that was
> something most people learn e.g. in the Army. Perhaps it was the Navy
> where people learned the really useful things in life, then.
>
> Let's discuss real facts once your blood has stopped Boyling, OK?
>
> Robert Kaiser
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To Robert Kaiser: I have to laugh because you finally made a funny but
not really sarcastic joke! I spent 21 years in the Army, and you
probably have no idea of how many variations on my last name I heard!
Not only that, but guess who got picked for details, not always first
but 2nd or 3rd! We had too many people with names that too many
Sergeants did not want to pronounce or could not, so it was either
"Alphabet" or "Boyle" or anyway else they could get the number they
needed for details!! As you may have already noticed, I sent you, just a
little while ago, a hopefully reasoned, non-sarcastic request for help!
Now, if you and I can keep it on that level, maybe I can finally get
something to work, since you are completely determined on your course!
If I, first of all, had any knowledge of how to program, or even knew
some people who could, I might try, but I do not and can not! I do have
a 2 year College degree, but it was in the physical aspects NOT in the
programming, as I do have a very weak spot when it comes to advanced
math! I do not and can not make head nor tail out of Boolean Algebra,
yet I can use just about all the test equipment to check out something
and diagnose it enough to fix it, but NOT COMPUTER CODE! Again, sorry
for the CAPS. But, again, I also wish someone in your association, could
do something about writing out a good, fairly detailed explanation of
how to, and maybe then you would NOT be getting all the anger even from
others , or just the statement they are dropping 2.0 and going back to
1.1.18, maybe! :-\

-- 
Old Sarge-John Boyle
IN GOD WE TRUST!

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[John Boyle]

Robert Kaiser wrote:
> John Boyle wrote:
>> I have been a LOYAL user of Netscape/SeaMonkey since Netscape
>> 4, which I made clear in one of my messages!
>
> That doesn't change that you are a destructive voice now, apparently,
> and accusing the people of only bad things who are in fact donating a
> whole lot of their free time to improving SeaMonkey and keeping it
> alive at all.
>
>> When I mentioned the word
>> "Invention" I clearly meant the Invention of 2.0, which despite my
>> non-programmer background, was even said by one of your supporters or
>> even you., to be a clean DEPARTURE from All the old code!
>
> This "invention" was and is the only way to keep the suite alive, at
> least from our point of view.
> If you don't share that view, feel free to assemble your own team and
> develop the old code in a different way, it's all open and we are not
> afraid of competition.
>
>> Why couldn't you have
>> listened to your users more than you did or are doing NOW?
>
> I and our whole team are constantly listening to a whole lot of users
> - just that not all users are thinking the same way, and some times
> one has to make decisions. Once you have leadership experience
> somehwere, you'll agree on that point, at least.
>
>> Why couldn't
>> Any of your team first do a survey to see what the majority of SeaMonkey
>> were using for OS's , for one example?
>
> You think that 95% of our users are on Windows, some 60% of those on
> Windows XP, does change anything? Why that? Do you think it would be
> better top ignore the 5% on Mac and Linux and stop development for those?
>
>> Then, along with all the NEW
>> code, you could have put out clearer instructions for the vast majority
>> of your user base, instead of Ignoring that very same user base? If you
>> did not have the time to do so, than why didn't you make it clear and
>> Ask one of the users who might have some experience in writing training
>> material
>
> Oh, we did ask that quite often and still do, you just seem to be
> reading those things. And you're joining our testday today, right?
>
>> Why do you keep on ignoring all the CRIES FOR
>> HELP,?
>
> You don't seem to be reading this group, all team is all over the
> place and helping those people who constructively ask for help instead
> of just shout at us for being jerks or something.
>
>> I can
>> say that your effort at putting the program together, incomplete as it
>> may be, is highly commendable
>
> Thanks, at least *something* positive you can see.
>
> Unfortunately, we are a very small team and cannot do everything at
> once. We know, we can need improvement on a whole lot of things, and
> we welcome anyone trying to sincerely help us making it better.
> Be constructive, help to improve things, and magically, things will
> improve for yourself. That's how SeaMonkey, the whole open source
> movement, and actually, most of our modern society work.
>
> Robert Kaiser
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>
To Robert Kaiser: Then, you start, by explaining how, on earth, does one
migrate ones Addressbooks intact to SM2, in detail, PLEASE!??? I was
able to migrate my bookmarks on the first real install I attempted, but
CANNOT (sorry about the CAPS) successfully migrate my addressbooks
intact and did, in fact, sorry to say, damage the data on my 1.1.18,
part of which I had luckily printed out and can re-constitute, but the
Collected Addressbook itself, is totally GONE! Please explain to me how
to reconstitute that file. In Detail, if possible! :-\

-- 
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0, support for html attributes 'ALT' and 'TITLE'

[David E. Ross]

On 12/11/2009 3:48 AM, Lucas Levrel wrote:
> Is there a way to adjust the duration of the tooltips?
> 
> (BTW: I can't find the about:config item corresponding to the "Show 
> Tooltips" setting.)
> 

browser.chrome.toolbar_tips

-- 
David E. Ross


Go to Mozdev at  for quick access to
extensions for Firefox, Thunderbird, SeaMonkey, and other
Mozilla-related applications.  You can access Mozdev much
more quickly than you can Mozilla Add-Ons.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Rob Lindauer]

Robert Kaiser wrote:


It's an interesting world where everyone but yourself is losing his/her
mind and have a "disease", right?

Robert Kaiser


My Dad used to tell a story about a mother watching her son's army 
regiment march by, and saying proudly to her neighbor, "Look, everyone 
is out of step except my Johnny"


--
Rob Lindauer - for my real address, replace "att" with "sbc"
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[John]

Leonidas Jones wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 12/11/2009 7:09 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 12/10/2009 4:31 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

/snip/


I find it hard to believe that any user would install SeaMonkey (or
any program for that matter) directly into "C:/Documents And Settings"
rather than a sub-directory under that or any other directory.

Perhaps the person suspected of this can clarify?



Letting the install program install the peograms into the default
directory "Program Files" give a better chance to avoid problems.


I suspect you mean "... install to a directory under Program Files...",
but that isn't actually necessary. I rarely install under Program Files
(of course, I never install programs anywhere under Documents And
Settings either).




/snip/


Yes. I suspect this thread is dead and relegated now to SM bashing.


I recall an old Firefox version where, if you choose a non default 
location without creating a folder ahead of time, would simply install 
all the files outside of a folder.  There were people who installed in 
the root of the C drive, expecting to get a C:\\Firefox install, but got 
all the program files strewn about.


The real disaster was if they tried to uninstall.  The uninstaller 
started removing everything on the C drive!!  (It was fun doing support 
back then!) Needless to say, I am sure this is not happening here.


That being said, on Windows, absent a compelling reason to the contrary, 
as installing a beta for testing, I let the applications go where they 
want to go.  Program Files is perfectly handy, since it makes it easy to 
find things.  Documents and Settings seems an odd destination for 
program files.  However, I still find it hard to understand how 
installing SeaMonkey could be attacking an iTunes library, unless the 
installations of both are really non standard.


Lee
you are not alone in not understanding--I sure as heck do not understand 
it.  It is now water under the bridge. :)

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Leonidas Jones]

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 12/11/2009 7:09 AM, Ray_Net wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 12/10/2009 4:31 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

/snip/


I find it hard to believe that any user would install SeaMonkey (or
any program for that matter) directly into "C:/Documents And Settings"
rather than a sub-directory under that or any other directory.

Perhaps the person suspected of this can clarify?



Letting the install program install the peograms into the default
directory "Program Files" give a better chance to avoid problems.


I suspect you mean "... install to a directory under Program Files...",
but that isn't actually necessary. I rarely install under Program Files
(of course, I never install programs anywhere under Documents And
Settings either).




/snip/


Yes. I suspect this thread is dead and relegated now to SM bashing.


I recall an old Firefox version where, if you choose a non default 
location without creating a folder ahead of time, would simply install 
all the files outside of a folder.  There were people who installed in 
the root of the C drive, expecting to get a C:\\Firefox install, but 
got all the program files strewn about.


The real disaster was if they tried to uninstall.  The uninstaller 
started removing everything on the C drive!!  (It was fun doing support 
back then!) Needless to say, I am sure this is not happening here.


That being said, on Windows, absent a compelling reason to the contrary, 
as installing a beta for testing, I let the applications go where they 
want to go.  Program Files is perfectly handy, since it makes it easy to 
find things.  Documents and Settings seems an odd destination for 
program files.  However, I still find it hard to understand how 
installing SeaMonkey could be attacking an iTunes library, unless the 
installations of both are really non standard.


Lee
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0, support for html attributes 'ALT' and 'TITLE'

[»Q«]

In ,
Lucas Levrel  wrote:

> Is there a way to adjust the duration of the tooltips?

Not in 2.0, but in a future version there should be the option to have
them display as long as the cursor is stationary over the element.
It's already in the Firefox 3.6 betas.

There's a 'No Tooltip Timeout' extension for current versions of Fx,
but I don't know if it can work with SeaMonkey.
 

> (BTW: I can't find the about:config item corresponding to the "Show 
> Tooltips" setting.)

Sorry, I dunno.

-- 
»Q«  /"\
  ASCII Ribbon Campaign  \ /
   against html e-mailX
    / \
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/11/2009 7:09 AM, Ray_Net wrote:
> Mark Hansen wrote:
>> On 12/10/2009 4:31 PM, Ray_Net wrote:
>>> Why did you install programs into 'Documents and Settings' ???
>>> "Program Files" IS the directory where programs must be installed.
>> 
>> Programs certainly don't have to be installed in "Program Files".
>> 
>> Why someone would install anything in "Documents And Settings" is
>> another issue.
>> 
> It's possible that the OP installs:
> Itunes data into "Documents and Settings"
> Itunes program into "C:\Itunes"
> SM programs into "Documents and Settings"
> SM data into "Documents and Settings\" under the profile directoy.
> 
> Instead of :
> Itunes data into "Documents and Settings\Itune-data"
> Itunes program into "C:\Itunes"
> SM programs into "Documents and Settings\SeaMonkey"
> SM data into "Documents and Settings\" under the profile directoy.
> 
> --- you see immediately when SM is installed/removed in the upper group 
> of locations that hei Itunes data is in peril.

Well, is there any evidence of this?

I find it hard to believe that any user would install SeaMonkey (or
any program for that matter) directly into "C:/Documents And Settings"
rather than a sub-directory under that or any other directory.

Perhaps the person suspected of this can clarify?

> 
> Letting the install program install the peograms into the default 
> directory "Program Files" give a better chance to avoid problems.

I suspect you mean "... install to a directory under Program Files...",
but that isn't actually necessary. I rarely install under Program Files
(of course, I never install programs anywhere under Documents And
Settings either).

> 
> Anyway, we never will receive informations asked to john:
> Where exactly in what precide directory he have :
> 
> Itunes data ?
> Itunes program ?
> SM programs ?
> SM data ?

Yes. I suspect this thread is dead and relegated now to SM bashing.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Ray_Net]

Mark Hansen wrote:

On 12/10/2009 4:31 PM, Ray_Net wrote:

Why did you install programs into 'Documents and Settings' ???
"Program Files" IS the directory where programs must be installed.


Programs certainly don't have to be installed in "Program Files".

Why someone would install anything in "Documents And Settings" is
another issue.


It's possible that the OP installs:
Itunes data into "Documents and Settings"
Itunes program into "C:\Itunes"
SM programs into "Documents and Settings"
SM data into "Documents and Settings\" under the profile directoy.

Instead of :
Itunes data into "Documents and Settings\Itune-data"
Itunes program into "C:\Itunes"
SM programs into "Documents and Settings\SeaMonkey"
SM data into "Documents and Settings\" under the profile directoy.

--- you see immediately when SM is installed/removed in the upper group 
of locations that hei Itunes data is in peril.


Letting the install program install the peograms into the default 
directory "Program Files" give a better chance to avoid problems.


Anyway, we never will receive informations asked to john:
Where exactly in what precide directory he have :

Itunes data ?
Itunes program ?
SM programs ?
SM data ?
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Robert Kaiser]

John Boyle wrote:

I have been a LOYAL user of Netscape/SeaMonkey since Netscape
4, which I made clear in one of my messages!


That doesn't change that you are a destructive voice now, apparently, 
and accusing the people of only bad things who are in fact donating a 
whole lot of their free time to improving SeaMonkey and keeping it alive 
at all.



When I mentioned the word
"Invention" I clearly meant the Invention of 2.0, which despite my
non-programmer background, was even said by one of your supporters or
even you., to be a clean DEPARTURE from All the old code!


This "invention" was and is the only way to keep the suite alive, at 
least from our point of view.
If you don't share that view, feel free to assemble your own team and 
develop the old code in a different way, it's all open and we are not 
afraid of competition.



Why couldn't you have
listened to your users more than you did or are doing NOW?


I and our whole team are constantly listening to a whole lot of users - 
just that not all users are thinking the same way, and some times one 
has to make decisions. Once you have leadership experience somehwere, 
you'll agree on that point, at least.



Why couldn't
Any of your team first do a survey to see what the majority of SeaMonkey
were using for OS's , for one example?


You think that 95% of our users are on Windows, some 60% of those on 
Windows XP, does change anything? Why that? Do you think it would be 
better top ignore the 5% on Mac and Linux and stop development for those?



Then, along with all the NEW
code, you could have put out clearer instructions for the vast majority
of your user base, instead of Ignoring that very same user base? If you
did not have the time to do so, than why didn't you make it clear and
Ask one of the users who might have some experience in writing training
material


Oh, we did ask that quite often and still do, you just seem to be 
reading those things. And you're joining our testday today, right?



Why do you keep on ignoring all the CRIES FOR
HELP,?


You don't seem to be reading this group, all team is all over the place 
and helping those people who constructively ask for help instead of just 
shout at us for being jerks or something.



I can
say that your effort at putting the program together, incomplete as it
may be, is highly commendable


Thanks, at least *something* positive you can see.

Unfortunately, we are a very small team and cannot do everything at 
once. We know, we can need improvement on a whole lot of things, and we 
welcome anyone trying to sincerely help us making it better.
Be constructive, help to improve things, and magically, things will 
improve for yourself. That's how SeaMonkey, the whole open source 
movement, and actually, most of our modern society work.


Robert Kaiser
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0, support for html attributes 'ALT' and 'TITLE'

[Lucas Levrel]

Is there a way to adjust the duration of the tooltips?

(BTW: I can't find the about:config item corresponding to the "Show 
Tooltips" setting.)


--
LL
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[John Boyle]

Robert Kaiser wrote:
> John Boyle wrote:
>> To Mark Hansen: Seems you are infected with the same disease as Robert
>> Kaiser!
>
> It's an interesting world where everyone but yourself is losing
> his/her mind and have a "disease", right?
>
> Robert Kaiser
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>
To Robert Kaiser: The 'DISEASE" of Arrogance, not LOSS of MIND! I never
said that, so don't twist it, and NO, I am no troll, if you would bother
to read everything I said and reduce the CAPS to small letters, you
might find I have been a LOYAL user of Netscape/SeaMonkey since Netscape
4, which I made clear in one of my messages! When I mentioned the word
"Invention" I clearly meant the Invention of 2.0, which despite my
non-programmer background, was even said by one of your supporters or
even you., to be a clean DEPARTURE from All the old code!  I did NOT
invent that statement, nor did I do any Trolling for anybody, but I have
tried to make it clear you are NOT being as helpful as you seem to think
you are, NOR is your version of SeaMonkey any easier to understand than
too many versions of LINUX are! If you would even pay attention to what
all the users were saying last year when you started making comments on
what you were doing, all the way up to NOW, you would find that a VAST
majority were NOT in favor of you deliberately destroying the user base,
along with Totally changing the program code! Why couldn't you have
listened to your users more than you did or are doing NOW? Why couldn't
Any of your team first do a survey to see what the majority of SeaMonkey
were using for OS's , for one example? Then, along with all the NEW
code, you could have put out clearer instructions for the vast majority
of your user base, instead of Ignoring that very same user base? If you
did not have the time to do so, than why didn't you make it clear and
Ask one of the users who might have some experience in writing training
material, (Again, not my field, I only taught FROM already written
material) , for instance, why did you not ask Mark Hansen, one of your
very strong supporters, or asked the entire group for someone who could
understand what you were doing and who knew how to make it MUCH clearer
to the majority of users? Like Philip Jones, or even Leonidas Jones(wow,
I said something NICE)???  Why do you keep on ignoring all the CRIES FOR
HELP,?**   My whole thing of anger, is based on this very FACT, of there
just NOT being any REAL help, focused on those who very obviously do NOT
have your background nor of any of your developers background!  I can
say that your effort at putting the program together, incomplete as it
may be, is highly commendable, but you seem to have lost sight of the
FACT, that the majority of users do NOT have your background! :-(

-- 
Old Sarge-John Boyle
IN GOD WE TRUST!

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/10/2009 4:31 PM, Ray_Net wrote:
> Why did you install programs into 'Documents and Settings' ???
> "Program Files" IS the directory where programs must be installed.

Programs certainly don't have to be installed in "Program Files".

Why someone would install anything in "Documents And Settings" is
another issue.

> 
> De-install both programs and re-install it into "Program Files" then 
> tell us if your Itunes files have problems ...

How about "...just not under Documents And Settings"?
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Ray_Net]

John wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

John wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:

John wrote:

Mark Hansen wrote:

You have evidence that installing SM 2.0 had destroyed anything?


Absoultely


That one word doesn't make evidence.

Robert Kaiser

I think that I have stated my case accurately.  You all may want to
refuse to believe that the install of SM2 causes problems with other 
programs.   I have evidence that, in fact, it did do some damage on 
files on my system.  I do not know how to present that in a way you 
all can see but it did erase/delete all the music in my iTunes Music 
folder.


Hello John, You complain, complain, but never answer usefull questions.
One of those is:
NoOp wrote:
 > So, despite the 'directory/folder' debate; John please tell
 > us *exactly* where you have SeaMonkey installed, where you
 > have your itunes etc installed. You state that you have/had
 > them both installed in your 'Documents and Settings' folder,
 > can you provide details regarding this?


like what?  There was no cross linking, SM installed in D&S or My 
Documents if you prefer and My Music was is the same directory.  Be 
specific about what type of information would be useful.


Why did you install programs into 'Documents and Settings' ???
"Program Files" IS the directory where programs must be installed.

De-install both programs and re-install it into "Program Files" then 
tell us if your Itunes files have problems ...

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/10/2009 2:27 PM, Benoit Renard wrote:
> Robert Kaiser wrote:
>> We regret that there are some where this isn't the case and try to help 
>> if we get a clear picture of what went wrong and what can be done. "It's 
>> JUNK" isn't a such clear picture at all. Sorry.
> 
> Like some others, you conveniently mistake John Boyle for Bush, who 
> created this thread, and is the one that proclaimed that SeaMonkey 2.0 
> is "JUNK".

Actually, John Boyle said:

"I did NOT originate the title of the thread, "Version 2.0 is JUNK,
if you bother to even check that FACT, but I CLEARLY agree with that
statement!  :-(   :-(   :-(  "

Among other things. It doesn't seem he's interested in solving any
problems.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Benoit Renard]

Robert Kaiser wrote:
We regret that there are some where this isn't the case and try to help 
if we get a clear picture of what went wrong and what can be done. "It's 
JUNK" isn't a such clear picture at all. Sorry.


Like some others, you conveniently mistake John Boyle for Bush, who 
created this thread, and is the one that proclaimed that SeaMonkey 2.0 
is "JUNK".

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/10/2009 6:36 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:
> Daniel wrote:
>> John Boyle wrote:
>>> Keith Whaley wrote:
 John Boyle wrote:
> Keith Whaley wrote:
>> John Boyle wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I will then have to switch to IE, HEAVEN
>>> FORBID! You see, IE is already paid for as part of my OS,
>>
>> John, if you are set in wanting to move away from SeaMonkey, why do you
>> want to go all the way to M$IE and O/OE??
> 
> You haven't understood what he said. All he seems to want is to annoy 
> us, so he comes up with the most insane variant.
> 
> Robert Kaiser

Right. I'm becoming convinced that John Boyle is a troll, so I think
I'll back out of this. There are plenty of folks here actually asking
for help without the need to insult and denigrate those trying to help.

Best Regards,
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Robert Kaiser]

Daniel wrote:

John Boyle wrote:

Keith Whaley wrote:

John Boyle wrote:

Keith Whaley wrote:

John Boyle wrote:




I will then have to switch to IE, HEAVEN
FORBID! You see, IE is already paid for as part of my OS,


John, if you are set in wanting to move away from SeaMonkey, why do you
want to go all the way to M$IE and O/OE??


You haven't understood what he said. All he seems to want is to annoy 
us, so he comes up with the most insane variant.


Robert Kaiser
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Robert Kaiser]

John Boyle wrote:

To Mark Hansen: Seems you are infected with the same disease as Robert
Kaiser!


It's an interesting world where everyone but yourself is losing his/her 
mind and have a "disease", right?


Robert Kaiser
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Robert Kaiser]

John Boyle wrote:

you just seem to be as Imperial Minded as
the Kaiser was in WWI!


Right, that's why he had already introduced UK-style democracy in mostz 
parts of his monarchy.


Interestingly, you haven't understood yet that joking on someone's name 
will not make him like you better, though I thought that was something 
most people learn e.g. in the Army. Perhaps it was the Navy where people 
learned the really useful things in life, then.


Let's discuss real facts once your blood has stopped Boyling, OK?

Robert Kaiser
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Daniel]

John Boyle wrote:

Keith Whaley wrote:

John Boyle wrote:

Keith Whaley wrote:

John Boyle wrote:




I will then have to switch to IE, HEAVEN
FORBID! You see, IE is already paid for as part of my OS, 


John, if you are set in wanting to move away from SeaMonkey, why do you 
want to go all the way to M$IE and O/OE??


If you're looking to use a browser and a separate mail client, why not 
give Firefox and Thunderbird a go?? At least they might have some of the 
feel (and safety) of SeaMonkey.


Just a thought.

Daniel
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Daniel]

Philip Chee wrote:

On Tue, 08 Dec 2009 09:30:19 -0600, John wrote:

Water off a Ducks back.  I am wondering if it is because I have SM 
installed in Documents and Settings?


Ah well, if the iTunes database also lives in Documents and Settings,
installing SeaMonkey (or Firefox, or Thunderbird, or any large
application) there might well destroy existing data there not limited to
just your itunes data.

Phil



Yeah, sure, Phil, if your operating system losses track of where it has 
written a file, so that it then over-writes it with another file!!


Not supposed to happen with a fully functional OS and HD.

Daniel
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[Mark Hansen]

On 12/9/2009 7:37 PM, John Boyle wrote:

> To Mark Hansen: Seems you are infected with the same disease as Robert
> Kaiser! When is the last time you gave complete, clearcut instructions
> on how to overcome the failings of SM2? From what I have read on this
> list or the newsgroup, you seem to think people can read your mind and
> at a distance! Why is beyond me, and for the same reasons I wrote to
> Robert Kaiser! I have been a user of Mozilla since Netscape 4 and, up
> until now, had no trouble with Seamonkey worth mentioning, but you and
> Mr. Kaiser have completely reinvented the Wheel, and neither of you can
> even define or describe to the rest of us how to get your "Invention" to
> work! I did NOT originate the title of the thread, "Version 2.0 is JUNK,
> if you bother to even check that FACT, but I CLEARLY agree with that
> statement! :-( :-( :-( 
> 

What have I invented, exactly?
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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[J. Weaver Jr.]

John wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

 Hello John, You complain, complain, but never answer usefull questions.
 One of those is:
 NoOp wrote:
  >  So, despite the 'directory/folder' debate; John please tell
  >  us *exactly* where you have SeaMonkey installed, where you
  >  have your itunes etc installed. You state that you have/had
  >  them both installed in your 'Documents and Settings' folder,
  >  can you provide details regarding this?


like what?  There was no cross linking, SM installed in D&S or My
Documents if you prefer and My Music was is the same directory.  Be
specific about what type of information would be useful.


OK, I'll try. My SeaMonkey 2.0 executable files are in the directory 
"C:\Program Files\SeaMonkey". My SeaMonkey 2.0 data files are in 
"C:\Documents and Settings\[user]\Application Data\Mozilla\SeaMonkey".


Now, where _exactly_ on your hard drive are your SeaMonkey 2.0 
executable and data files? Thanks!  -JW

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Re: Seamonkey 2.0 is JUNK .

[John Boyle]

Mark Hansen wrote:
> On 12/9/2009 5:32 AM, Robert Kaiser wrote:
>   
>> John Boyle wrote:
>> 
>>> Enough for now! :-( :-\
>>>   
>> I couldn't agree more. I can do nothing against your bad health or you 
>> regrading yourself as a "low-life" being as you seem to suggest in 
>> multiple of your posts here.
>>
>> Try to be friendly and constructive instead of negative, arrogant and 
>> sarcastic (I know you accuse us of being that but your messages consist 
>> of exactly the style you accuse us of) and you'll wonder how helpful the 
>> community here can be.
>>
>> Robert Kaiser
>> 
>
> Exactly! Why people think the best way to get help is to denigrate the
> very volunteers they demand help from is quite beyond me.
>
> For example, beginning a thread with a subject line that expresses the
> product is "junk" is the wrong way to try to get help. In my opinion,
> such threads should be treated as trolling and just ignored.
>
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>
>   
To Mark Hansen: Seems you are infected with the same disease as Robert
Kaiser! When is the last time you gave complete, clearcut instructions
on how to overcome the failings of SM2? From what I have read on this
list or the newsgroup, you seem to think people can read your mind and
at a distance! Why is beyond me, and for the same reasons I wrote to
Robert Kaiser! I have been a user of Mozilla since Netscape 4 and, up
until now, had no trouble with Seamonkey worth mentioning, but you and
Mr. Kaiser have completely reinvented the Wheel, and neither of you can
even define or describe to the rest of us how to get your "Invention" to
work! I did NOT originate the title of the thread, "Version 2.0 is JUNK,
if you bother to even check that FACT, but I CLEARLY agree with that
statement! :-( :-( :-( 

-- 
Old Sarge-John Boyle
IN GOD WE TRUST!

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