subject:"Re\: Seamonkey 2.19"


On 2013-07-16 10:02 (GMT-0400) Michael Lueck composed:


Felix Miata wrote:



Not a fix, just a suggestion for the future: Back up daily.



Well, I do weekly backups on Saturday... this was to be the last email sent 
prior to weekly mailbox compaction, then backup.


Forgot another suggestion. I compact more often than I empty trash. For each 
and every empty trash (normally 20-30 minutes after midnight) I immediately 
follow with compact. If I find some fool has emailed me binaries, after 
deleting attached binaries I compact the folder they showed up in before 
deleting the offending email.



I know of no way to gracefully exit Mozilla products via command line. I leave SM up 
all the time, though have to restart it periodically due some blasted folder 
memory leak, disappearing child
folders. To mask that, I can open a new SM mail window instance and at least 
the folders show up again. Sluggish folder open/close performance requires a 
restart however.


I don't see any obvious signs of any Gecko leaking any significant amount of 
memory. I keep 5 of them open spread across 8 virtual desktops in the same DE 
24/7, save for daily restarts and backups of the profile used for email. 
Maybe your problem is confined to 64 bit, or maybe the fault is in 
permissions or XFS or Ubuntu or its Pango or Gnome or mushrooming disk space 
consumption by saving email with binaries attached or 



Using Linux, the only time I've needed to restore from backup is due to
disappearance of a folder due to an accidental drag.



Jah, I am suspecting I detected I accidentally started to drag, realized what 
SM thought I meant, stopped, and it was too late. :-(


When I catch myself accidentally dragging, I drag the pointer outside the 
window or to an obviously illegal location before releasing any button.

--
The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-17 Thread Daniel


Felix Miata wrote:

On 2013-07-16 10:02 (GMT-0400) Michael Lueck composed:


Felix Miata wrote:



Not a fix, just a suggestion for the future: Back up daily.



Well, I do weekly backups on Saturday... this was to be the last email
sent prior to weekly mailbox compaction, then backup.


Forgot another suggestion. I compact more often than I empty trash. For
each and every empty trash (normally 20-30 minutes after midnight) I
immediately follow with compact. If I find some fool has emailed me
binaries, after deleting attached binaries I compact the folder they
showed up in before deleting the offending email.


Felix, it is my understanding that you are wasting your time compacting 
your profile if you haven't, first, deleted the rubbish you want to get 
rid of.


Deleting an e-mail really just marks the e-mail for deletion, it is not 
actually removed from your inbox file until it is marked for deletion 
and then the file is compacted. If an e-mail is not first marked for 
deletion, after the compaction it will remain (hidden) in your inbox file.



I know of no way to gracefully exit Mozilla products via command line.
I leave SM up all the time, though have to restart it periodically
due some blasted folder memory leak, disappearing child
folders. To mask that, I can open a new SM mail window instance and at
least the folders show up again. Sluggish folder open/close
performance requires a restart however.


I don't see any obvious signs of any Gecko leaking any significant
amount of memory. I keep 5 of them open spread across 8 virtual desktops
in the same DE 24/7, save for daily restarts and backups of the profile
used for email. Maybe your problem is confined to 64 bit, or maybe the
fault is in permissions or XFS or Ubuntu or its Pango or Gnome or
mushrooming disk space consumption by saving email with binaries
attached or 


How can you say you have your DE up 24/7 when you then say you re-boot 
daily?? Almost by definition, then, the most you have is up for 24 hours!


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130418192405


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:21.0) 
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130403022815

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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath


On 2013-07-17 20:02 (GMT+1000) Daniel composed:


Felix Miata wrote:



I compact more often than I empty trash. For
each and every empty trash (normally 20-30 minutes after midnight) I
immediately follow with compact. If I find some fool has emailed me
binaries, after deleting attached binaries I compact the folder they
showed up in before deleting the offending email.



Felix, it is my understanding that you are wasting your time compacting
your profile if you haven't, first, deleted the rubbish you want to get
rid of.


Looks to me like you need to reread what I wrote. What makes you think I ever 
compact without first deleting something?



Deleting an e-mail really just marks the e-mail for deletion,


Duh.


it is not
actually removed from your inbox file until it is marked for deletion
and then the file is compacted. If an e-mail is not first marked for
deletion, after the compaction it will remain (hidden) in your inbox file.


If it was up to me, delete would always mean delete rather than hide, 
regardless of context. Delete that increases disk consumption by even one bit 
is not deletion, it's a lie. Compaction would never be a separate menu item 
or process.



[re: Geckos] I keep 5 of them open spread across 8 virtual desktops
in the same DE 24/7, save for daily restarts and backups of the profile
used for email.



How can you say you have your DE up 24/7 when you then say you re-boot
daily?? Almost by definition, then, the most you have is up for 24 hours!


AU English must be more different from US than I thought, that or plenty of 
after dinner cocktails before reading newsgroups. :-p Again I think you need 
to reread.


$ ~/.mozilla ll */lock
...Jul  9 14:19 .../lock...
...Jul  9 14:24 .../lock...
...Jul  9 13:58 .../lock...
...Jul 17 01:22 .../lock...
...Jul 11 01:49 .../lock...
$ ~/.mozilla uptime
09:41am  up 40 days  8:45...

Restarting above refers to closing one Gecko instance for the purpose of 
backing it up without any of its files open, immediately followed by starting 
it back up. it's a quick process, as each profile dir's cache dir is always 
empty.

--
The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-17 Thread Paul B. Gallagher


Felix Miata wrote:


If it was up to me, delete would always mean delete rather than hide,
regardless of context. Delete that increases disk consumption by
even one bit is not deletion, it's a lie. Compaction would never be a
separate menu item or process.


The point of doing it this way is to make undo possible. If all deletes 
were permanent and irrevocable, the system would be very unforgiving and 
not as user-friendly. I make enough mistakes that I prefer to spend a 
couple of MB on my terabyte drive for CYA.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath


On 2013-07-17 12:14 (GMT-0400) Paul B. Gallagher composed:


Felix Miata wrote:



If it was up to me, delete would always mean delete rather than hide,
regardless of context. Delete that increases disk consumption by
even one bit is not deletion, it's a lie. Compaction would never be a
separate menu item or process.



The point of doing it this way is to make undo possible. If all deletes
were permanent and irrevocable, the system would be very unforgiving and
not as user-friendly. I make enough mistakes that I prefer to spend a
couple of MB on my terabyte drive for CYA.


Delete means cancel, expunge or eradicate. It's been around a very very long 
time. A hide operation that's reversible needs a different word that does not 
connote increase available free space. Current delete usage on a computer 
parallels misuse of megabyte/MB for 2^20 instead of its original and still 
current meaning 10^6.


CYA is one of the things backups are for.
--
The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-17 Thread Paul B. Gallagher


Felix Miata wrote:


On 2013-07-17 12:14 (GMT-0400) Paul B. Gallagher composed:


Felix Miata wrote:



If it was up to me, delete would always mean delete rather than hide,
regardless of context. Delete that increases disk consumption by
even one bit is not deletion, it's a lie. Compaction would never be a
separate menu item or process.



The point of doing it this way is to make undo possible. If all deletes
were permanent and irrevocable, the system would be very unforgiving and
not as user-friendly. I make enough mistakes that I prefer to spend a
couple of MB on my terabyte drive for CYA.


Delete means cancel, expunge or eradicate. It's been around a very very
long time. A hide operation that's reversible needs a different word
that does not connote increase available free space. Current delete
usage on a computer parallels misuse of megabyte/MB for 2^20 instead of
its original and still current meaning 10^6.

CYA is one of the things backups are for.


Do you make backups every 30 seconds? I don't, I run mine nightly. If I 
make a mistake between 9 am and noon, I can only roll back to last 
night's backup, not to where I was an hour ago.


I suggest you read up on what delete means in a computer context. It's 
been like this for several decades. If your disk space is so tight that 
you need to save a couple of megabytes this way, you need a bigger disk. 
Otherwise, thank the developers and move on.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-17 Thread Chris Ilias


On 2013-07-17 12:14 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:


If it was up to me, delete would always mean delete rather than hide,
regardless of context. Delete that increases disk consumption by
even one bit is not deletion, it's a lie. Compaction would never be a
separate menu item or process.


The point of doing it this way is to make undo possible.


Are you assuming that is the reason, or do you have a source to cite?

--
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Newsgroup moderator
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-17 Thread Ed Mullen


Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:


On 2013-07-17 12:14 (GMT-0400) Paul B. Gallagher composed:


Felix Miata wrote:



If it was up to me, delete would always mean delete rather than hide,
regardless of context. Delete that increases disk consumption by
even one bit is not deletion, it's a lie. Compaction would never be a
separate menu item or process.



The point of doing it this way is to make undo possible. If all deletes
were permanent and irrevocable, the system would be very unforgiving and
not as user-friendly. I make enough mistakes that I prefer to spend a
couple of MB on my terabyte drive for CYA.


Delete means cancel, expunge or eradicate. It's been around a very very
long time. A hide operation that's reversible needs a different word
that does not connote increase available free space. Current delete
usage on a computer parallels misuse of megabyte/MB for 2^20 instead of
its original and still current meaning 10^6.

CYA is one of the things backups are for.


Do you make backups every 30 seconds? I don't, I run mine nightly. If I
make a mistake between 9 am and noon, I can only roll back to last
night's backup, not to where I was an hour ago.

I suggest you read up on what delete means in a computer context. It's
been like this for several decades. If your disk space is so tight that
you need to save a couple of megabytes this way, you need a bigger disk.
Otherwise, thank the developers and move on.



Not to mention how cheap hard drives are these days.  I hardly delete 
anything anymore.  In fact, I just make copies of it all.  No need to be 
selective about is saved.  Save it all, rotate it.



--
Ed Mullen
http://edmullen.net/
Why doesn't the glue stick to the inside of the bottle?
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath


On 2013-07-17 17:51 (GMT-0400) Paul B. Gallagher composed:


Felix Miata wrote:



Delete means cancel, expunge or eradicate. It's been around a very very
long time. A hide operation that's reversible needs a different word
that does not connote increase available free space. Current delete
usage on a computer parallels misuse of megabyte/MB for 2^20 instead of
its original and still current meaning 10^6.



I suggest you read up on what delete means in a computer context. It's
been like this for several decades.


I suggest computer programmers stop the practice of stealing away the 
traditional meanings of words, particularly common words with no equally 
common synonyms, for instance, delete.


Some people still use DOS apps, because they are simple, reliable, and 
sensible. Those I use use the word delete to mean delete, not hide from view. 
There ought to be a way to in mature apps like web browsers to maintain 
consistency, like options to make words mean what the dictionaries have said 
that they mean since decades before semiconductors and PCs were invented.

--
The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-17 Thread Paul B. Gallagher


Chris Ilias wrote:


On 2013-07-17 12:14 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Felix Miata wrote:


If it was up to me, delete would always mean delete rather than hide,
regardless of context. Delete that increases disk consumption by
even one bit is not deletion, it's a lie. Compaction would never be a
separate menu item or process.


The point of doing it this way is to make undo possible.


Are you assuming that is the reason, or do you have a source to cite?


Sorry, didn't realize I had strayed into academia. ;-)

I don't have a source, but it's the only theory that makes any sense. 
Why would a programmer or developer go to all the extra trouble of doing 
it this way when it would be much simpler and easier to simply do as 
Felix says? Only if there were some benefit. And the benefit I outlined 
is both obvious and desirable to most users.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-17 Thread Daniel


Felix Miata wrote:

On 2013-07-17 20:02 (GMT+1000) Daniel composed:


Felix Miata wrote:



I compact more often than I empty trash. For
each and every empty trash (normally 20-30 minutes after midnight) I
immediately follow with compact. If I find some fool has emailed me
binaries, after deleting attached binaries I compact the folder they
showed up in before deleting the offending email.



Felix, it is my understanding that you are wasting your time compacting
your profile if you haven't, first, deleted the rubbish you want to get
rid of.


Looks to me like you need to reread what I wrote. What makes you think I
ever compact without first deleting something?


Re-reading ...I compact more often than I empty trash  and ... 
deleting attached binaries I compact the folder they showed up in 
before deleting the offending email ... Yeap, seems to me you are, at 
times, wasting your time by compacting *before* deleting!!



Deleting an e-mail really just marks the e-mail for deletion,


Duh.


I don't know how to respond here!


it is not
actually removed from your inbox file until it is marked for deletion
and then the file is compacted. If an e-mail is not first marked for
deletion, after the compaction it will remain (hidden) in your inbox
file.


If it was up to me, delete would always mean delete rather than hide,
regardless of context. Delete that increases disk consumption by even
one bit is not deletion, it's a lie. Compaction would never be a
separate menu item or process.


.but it's not up to you, yet!! Though the SeaMonkey Council is 
always up for more assistance, so, maybe, in the future, it will be up 
to you!!


However, I tend to agree, deletion should mean it's history, but, on the 
other hand, I have been saved on occasion as mentioned by Paul!! So cal 
me 50/50!!



[re: Geckos] I keep 5 of them open spread across 8 virtual desktops
in the same DE 24/7, save for daily restarts and backups of the profile
used for email.



How can you say you have your DE up 24/7 when you then say you re-boot
daily?? Almost by definition, then, the most you have is up for 24 hours!


AU English must be more different from US than I thought, that or plenty
of after dinner cocktails before reading newsgroups. :-p Again I think
you need to reread.


Yes, U.S. of A.'ian English is very different to Australian English, 
and, most likely posting here *before* dinner, so what do I need to 
re-read??



$ ~/.mozilla ll */lock
...Jul  9 14:19 .../lock...
...Jul  9 14:24 .../lock...
...Jul  9 13:58 .../lock...
...Jul 17 01:22 .../lock...
...Jul 11 01:49 .../lock...
$ ~/.mozilla uptime
09:41am  up 40 days  8:45...


Your save for daily restarts doesn't mean you re-boot your system each 
and every day (up 40 days = how long the system has been running 
(from manual), just that you re-start SM each day!!



Restarting above refers to closing one Gecko instance for the purpose of
backing it up without any of its files open, immediately followed by
starting it back up. it's a quick process, as each profile dir's cache
dir is always empty.


O.K., if you just re-boot/re-cycle, I'll give you 23.95/7, maybe, but 
not 24/7


And with a name like Felix Miata, I was taking you as Spanish/Mexican, 
i.e. English not your first language, but then one of the other 
contributors here-abouts is Jay Garcia and I know he is U.S. of A.'ian 
(New Orleans), so, maybe, I should not be so quick to ASSUME!!


--
Daniel

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:21.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130418192405


or

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686 on x86_64; rv:21.0) 
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/21.0 SeaMonkey/2.18 Build identifier: 20130403022815

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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-16 Thread Felix Miata


On 2013-07-13 18:26 (GMT-0400) Michael Lueck composed:


Suggestions other than roll that account back to my most recent profile backup?


Not a fix, just a suggestion for the future: Back up daily. I think that's 
the only way to prevent inexplicable failures. Using Linux, the only time 
I've needed to restore from backup is due to disappearance of a folder due to 
an accidental drag. I've been using Mozilla.org's 2.19 downloaded and 
unpacked manually since day of release announcement. I have several mail 
accounts, and several news servers configured. In browser I usually have no 
less than 30 tabs open, often many more.


32 bit openSUSE 11.4
KDE3
EXT3 /home


System configuration:
Ubuntu 12.04 x64
XFS filesystem
SeaMonkey via UbuntuZilla, so the official Mozilla binaries

--
The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive. Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-16 Thread Michael Lueck


Felix Miata wrote:

Not a fix, just a suggestion for the future: Back up daily.


Well, I do weekly backups on Saturday... this was to be the last email sent 
prior to weekly mailbox compaction, then backup.

I know of no way to gracefully exit Mozilla products via command line. I leave SM up all the time, though have to restart it periodically due some blasted folder memory leak, disappearing child 
folders. To mask that, I can open a new SM mail window instance and at least the folders show up again. Sluggish folder open/close performance requires a restart however.


Unable to expand a folder's subfolders without opening the folder first in a new 
email window
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=593519

Anyway... for daily backups I could run them on the local filesystem, and not go through the compact... IF I could automate graceful exit/restart of SM. Suggestions to accomplish such? Then I could 
have the weekly manual backup remain to our server, run that after cleanup/compact.



Using Linux, the only time I've needed to restore from backup is due to
disappearance of a folder due to an accidental drag.


Jah, I am suspecting I detected I accidentally started to drag, realized what 
SM thought I meant, stopped, and it was too late. :-(

Sincerely,

--
Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems
http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-15 Thread Bill Davidsen


Michael Lueck wrote:

Greetings,

I had a most odd / scary thing happen this morning. I was sending an email via a
SM POP account with a few MB of files attached to it. I remember accidentally
clicking / doing something while it was sending via my SMTP (TLS) connection...
and POOF that account's InBox went blank, and ALL sub-folders under the InBox
have vanished. No pop-up message box what so ever was seen.

There is no trace of them in the profile filesystem. This account's Inbox.sbd is
completely empty.

At the command line I changed up to the Mail directory and did find | grep foo
where Foo is the name of folders which existing under that account's InBox.
(Being careful to observe PrettyCase since this is a CaSe sEnSiTiVe filesystem I
am dealing with.) NO TRACE of where the folders went.

The files for the InBox are as follows:

-rw---  1 mdlueck mdlueck 46285982 Jul 13 09:45 Inbox
-rw-rw-r--  1 mdlueck mdlueck 2146 Jul 13 10:19 Inbox.msf
-rw-rw-r--  1 mdlueck mdlueck67775 Jul 13 09:50 Inbox.ORIG.msf

I renamed off the folder index .msf file and rebuilt that folder's index. Though
the Inbox data file has messages in it, they do not show up.

Suggestions other than roll that account back to my most recent profile backup?

Can you fall back to 2.17.1 and try the rebuild option again? That is wildly 
odd, and whatever you do, don't compact your folders or you really will lose 
everything. From the file sizes I'm guessing that you somehow marked those 
messages but they're still in the message file.


You might be able to run the file through a tool like awk or sed and reset the 
flags which say the message is deleted. I remember doing that for some other 
reason once, renamed the Inbox, ran it through awk, saved the output as Inbox 
and rebuilt the index. You might scan the file with less or similar and see that 
it has what you are missing.

System configuration:
Ubuntu 12.04 x64
XFS filesystem
SeaMonkey via UbuntuZilla, so the official Mozilla binaries

Sincerely,




--
Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com
  We are not out of the woods yet, but we know the direction and have
taken the first step. The steps are many, but finite in number, and if
we persevere we will reach our destination.  -me, 2010


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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-15 Thread Michael Lueck


Bill Davidsen wrote:

Can you fall back to 2.17.1 and try the rebuild option again?


What is the silver bullet about that particular build of SM?

I suppose I could force the UbuntuZilla package for that version to get back to 
that version.

Sincerely,

--
Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems
http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/
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Re: SeaMonkey/2.19 on Linux nuked all messages in InBox and ALL folders underneath

2013-07-15 Thread Michael Lueck


A Williams wrote:


Have you found out what happened and how?  There was no step I could suggest 
that you had not tried anyway.



No I have not. Limping along with webmail access to the various accounts I use 
with SM.

--
Michael Lueck
Lueck Data Systems
http://www.lueckdatasystems.com/
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Andrea Govoni wrote, On 04/07/2013 14:52:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.

Out of curiosity, before reverting to 2.17.1 did you try to change the
default value [of layout.css.devPixelsPerPx] -1 to 1 to make it work
like in previous Firefox [and SeaMonkey] versions (100%)?



Why should we fiddle  :-(
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread »Q«

On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 23:06:31 +0100,
in
news:mailman.2042.1372889235.18227.support-seamon...@lists.mozilla.org,
Philip Taylor p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk wrote:

 Just been updated : web sites and e-mail now
 appear two zoom steps larger.  What has happened ?

See https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/959621#answer-438254.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Geoff Welsh


Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.


I'm curious which (types of) users are having the problem. I myself
didn't notice the slightest difference on either machine. Of course, my
customizations or lack thereof might be different, I might use a
different set of add-ins, etc.



all of 2.19 for me looks exactly the same as 2.17.1

15 MacBook Pro, OSX 10.6.8, set to 1280x800

GW
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Andrea Govoni wrote, On 04/07/2013 16:51:

Ray_Net wrote:

Andrea Govoni wrote, On 04/07/2013 14:52:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.

Out of curiosity, before reverting to 2.17.1 did you try to change the
default value [of layout.css.devPixelsPerPx] -1 to 1 to make it work
like in previous Firefox [and SeaMonkey] versions (100%)?

Why should we fiddle  :-(

Well, it certainly would be great if everything would always work
without fiddling with the software but I think that this is a very
easy and straightforward fix until Mozilla developers will make
everything work automagically again.

IMHO, the advantages to go for the easy fix route is that you'll be able
to stay on the current stable version line, with all the security fixes
and function/code benefits that it means.
For example, if you encounter a bug or experience a SM crash you'll not
have to wonder or research if that's already been fixed in the stable
version.



until Mozilla developers will make everything work automagically again
You are dreaming :-)
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread chicagofan


Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.
Are you saying you can NOT change the font size or display resolution to 
make it satisfactory for your use?

bj
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Mark Berger


chicagofan wrote:

Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.

Are you saying you can NOT change the font size or display resolution to
make it satisfactory for your use?
bj


Yes.  Using Modern theme.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Rufus


Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.


I'm curious which (types of) users are having the problem. I myself
didn't notice the slightest difference on either machine. Of course, my
customizations or lack thereof might be different, I might use a
different set of add-ins, etc.



I didn't notice an issue with the fonts in my limited use of the Mac 
version of SM 2.19 (I still need to look over the Windows version) but I 
can agree with where this user is coming from - there comes a breaking 
point from a UE standpoint where the compounding of small interface 
problems will either 1) stop the user from upgrading or 2) force the 
user to choose a different product.


Depending on the user, this is yet another QC sort of issue that a 
long-term user may find just annoying enough in a mature product to 
force either of the above.


--
 - Rufus
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Rob wrote, On 06/07/2013 09:47:

Andrea Govoni x...@mac.com wrote:

IMHO, the advantages to go for the easy fix route is that you'll be able
to stay on the current stable version line, with all the security fixes
and function/code benefits that it means.
For example, if you encounter a bug or experience a SM crash you'll not
have to wonder or research if that's already been fixed in the stable
version.

On the other hand, if something that worked for years is suddenly
broken, you won't have to endure that when you stay on a fixed version
and ignore the babble about security.

It is becoming more and more of a problem that security fixes and playing
with new stuff is done on the same version chain.

Everytime when the please update because we have fixed all those important
security problems message goes out, it is a disaster for many users
because they suddenly have problems they never had.

At work, we have been using Netscape Communicator since 2001, later
Mozilla and currently are using Seamonkey, bit starting in the 2.1x series
it has become a disaster.  Many times when a new version was released,
critical issues popped up the first few days of company-wide use (despite
testing for a week or two of daily use within the IT department), that
required me to make hastly moves like locking settings or rolling back
to the previous version.   Now we are stuck to 2.14.1 and I don't dare
to change it anymore.  I know the issues and have worked around the most
critical ones.

Migration to IE+Outlook is around the corner.  It is a pity, but there
seems to be no hope for Seamonkey (or other Mozilla products) in a
production environment.
I agree with you. SeaMonkey is no more professional and is intended for 
geeks.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.


I'm curious which (types of) users are having the problem. I myself 
didn't notice the slightest difference on either machine. Of course, my 
customizations or lack thereof might be different, I might use a 
different set of add-ins, etc.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Andrea Govoni

Ray_Net wrote:
 Andrea Govoni wrote, On 04/07/2013 14:52:
 Philip Taylor wrote:
 Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.

 Out of curiosity, before reverting to 2.17.1 did you try to change the
 default value [of layout.css.devPixelsPerPx] -1 to 1 to make it work
 like in previous Firefox [and SeaMonkey] versions (100%)?

 Why should we fiddle  :-(

Well, it certainly would be great if everything would always work
without fiddling with the software but I think that this is a very
easy and straightforward fix until Mozilla developers will make
everything work automagically again.

IMHO, the advantages to go for the easy fix route is that you'll be able
to stay on the current stable version line, with all the security fixes
and function/code benefits that it means.
For example, if you encounter a bug or experience a SM crash you'll not
have to wonder or research if that's already been fixed in the stable
version.


-- 
Andrea XFox Govoni

AIM/iChat/ICQ: x...@mac.com
Yahoo! Messenger: xfox82

PGP
KeyID: 0x212E69C1
Fingerprint: FBE1 CA7D 34BE 4A53 9639  5C36 B7A0 605F 212E 69C1
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Cruz, Jaime


Ray_Net wrote:

chicagofan wrote, On 04/07/2013 22:59:

Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.

Are you saying you can NOT change the font size or display resolution
to make it satisfactory for your use?
bj

Why are we obliged to fiddle, fiddle again ... because the developper do
things bad ?


It's an open source project, so if you think you can do better I'm sure 
they'd appreciate the help.



--
Jaime A. Cruz
Secretary
Nassau Wings Motorcycle Club
http://www.nassauwings.org/

AMA District 34
http://www.AMADistrict34.com/
Pop's Run
http://www.popsrun.org/
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Janine Starykowicz wrote:


How can I revert? I'm not having any font problems, but the busy
cursor is back everywhere, I'm getting frequent not responding
messages, and there's a javascript hang that is happening on several
websites. It's not quite as bad as in January, but almost. I'm on
Win7 64-bit if that makes a difference. Did not notice anything on
the WinXP laptop.


I'm on Win7 64-bit as well, and haven't noticed the issues you describe.

The usual recommendation in such situations is to begin by disabling all 
add-ins, and then enabling them one at a time until the problems return.


If there are particular websites you are having trouble with, I suggest 
you post the URLs here so the experts can check them out. With 800 
bazillion web pages out there, it's really hard for them to figure out 
which ones you're talking about without a clue.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


chicagofan wrote, On 04/07/2013 22:59:

Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.
Are you saying you can NOT change the font size or display resolution 
to make it satisfactory for your use?

bj
Why are we obliged to fiddle, fiddle again ... because the developper do 
things bad ?

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Andrea Govoni

Philip Taylor wrote:
 Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.

Out of curiosity, before reverting to 2.17.1 did you try to change the
default value [of layout.css.devPixelsPerPx] -1 to 1 to make it work
like in previous Firefox [and SeaMonkey] versions (100%)?


-- 
Andrea XFox Govoni

AIM/iChat/ICQ: x...@mac.com
Yahoo! Messenger: xfox82

PGP
KeyID: 0x212E69C1
Fingerprint: FBE1 CA7D 34BE 4A53 9639  5C36 B7A0 605F 212E 69C1
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Janine Starykowicz wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Janine Starykowicz wrote:


How can I revert? I'm not having any font problems, but the busy
cursor is back everywhere, I'm getting frequent not responding
messages, and there's a javascript hang that is happening on several
websites. It's not quite as bad as in January, but almost. I'm on
Win7 64-bit if that makes a difference. Did not notice anything on
the WinXP laptop.


I'm on Win7 64-bit as well, and haven't noticed the issues you describe.

The usual recommendation in such situations is to begin by disabling
all add-ins, and then enabling them one at a time until the problems
return.

If there are particular websites you are having trouble with, I
suggest you post the URLs here so the experts can check them out. With
800 bazillion web pages out there, it's
really hard for them to figure out which ones you're talking about
without a clue.


Multiple, mostly news-type, websites. It's the standard unresponsive
script popup, but stop script doesn't work (goes away but pops back up)
only continue. One site I've gotten it from several times is
www.nwitimes.com

This is the script:
chrome://communicator/content/dataman/dataman.js:1101


On my machine, the site comes up quickly and cleanly with no error messages. I 
navigated to several news stories, including one that was all-video, without 
difficulty.


This is a newish Gateway laptop (December 2012). I had massive problems
in January, only add-in at that point was FlashBlock because I thought
Flash was causing the busy cursor. I've also tried disabling Flash
protected mode by adding ProtectedMode=0 to the Flash mms.cfg file but
can't save the change. The file does not look to be protected.


I do have protected mode disabled, and had no difficulty saving the file when I 
modified it. Opened with Notepad, made the modification, saved, end of story. 
How did you try to do it?

Shockwave Flash version: 11.7.700.224
Shockwave for Director version: 12.0.2.122

P.S. I do sometimes get the busy cursor when I mouse over the mail/news folder 
list, but other than the visual distraction, it seems to carry no performance 
penalty.



When I open it in Notepad and try to save it, I get a popup saying Access is 
denied.

HTML-Kit seems to save it, but the original file is still dated 6/15/2013 with 
no changes.

Just tried Notepad++ and it thinks another program is using the file. Do I need 
to close SeaMonkey first?

My Flash is also 11.7.700.224.


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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Janine Starykowicz wrote, On 06/07/2013 18:13:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Janine Starykowicz wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Janine Starykowicz wrote:


How can I revert? I'm not having any font problems, but the busy
cursor is back everywhere, I'm getting frequent not responding
messages, and there's a javascript hang that is happening on several
websites. It's not quite as bad as in January, but almost. I'm on
Win7 64-bit if that makes a difference. Did not notice anything on
the WinXP laptop.


I'm on Win7 64-bit as well, and haven't noticed the issues you 
describe.


The usual recommendation in such situations is to begin by disabling
all add-ins, and then enabling them one at a time until the problems
return.

If there are particular websites you are having trouble with, I
suggest you post the URLs here so the experts can check them out. With
800 bazillion web pages out there, it's
really hard for them to figure out which ones you're talking about
without a clue.


Multiple, mostly news-type, websites. It's the standard unresponsive
script popup, but stop script doesn't work (goes away but pops back up)
only continue. One site I've gotten it from several times is
www.nwitimes.com

This is the script:
chrome://communicator/content/dataman/dataman.js:1101


On my machine, the site comes up quickly and cleanly with no error 
messages. I navigated to several news stories, including one that was 
all-video, without difficulty.



This is a newish Gateway laptop (December 2012). I had massive problems
in January, only add-in at that point was FlashBlock because I thought
Flash was causing the busy cursor. I've also tried disabling Flash
protected mode by adding ProtectedMode=0 to the Flash mms.cfg file 
but

can't save the change. The file does not look to be protected.


I do have protected mode disabled, and had no difficulty saving the 
file when I modified it. Opened with Notepad, made the modification, 
saved, end of story. How did you try to do it?


Shockwave Flash version: 11.7.700.224
Shockwave for Director version: 12.0.2.122

P.S. I do sometimes get the busy cursor when I mouse over the 
mail/news folder list, but other than the visual distraction, it 
seems to carry no performance penalty.




When I open it in Notepad and try to save it, I get a popup saying 
Access is denied.



Change mms.cfg to mms.cfg-original
Copy mms.cfg-original to mms.txt
Edit and save mms.txt
Change mms.txt to mms.cfg

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Rob

Noob42 root@localhost wrote:
 Rob wrote:

 Migration to IE+Outlook is around the corner.  It is a pity, but there
 seems to be no hope for Seamonkey (or other Mozilla products) in a
 production environment.

 Now I know you're just trolling.

No, I'm not.  The decision was really made to migrate from a Seamonkey
plus Linux IMAP server to Outlook and Exchange.  It will take place
at the end of the year.   Until then we will stick to 2.14.1 I think.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Philip Chee

On 05/07/2013 03:53, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
 Mark Berger wrote:
 chicagofan wrote:
 Philip Taylor wrote:
 Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
 Philip Taylor

 What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
 mentioned before?
 bj

 Font size problem is enough to stop using it.
 
 I'm curious which (types of) users are having the problem. I myself 
 didn't notice the slightest difference on either machine. Of course, my 
 customizations or lack thereof might be different, I might use a 
 different set of add-ins, etc.

There is a problem with hardware acceleration (on/off) and/or high
resolution HiDPI screens.

Please go to about:config and filter for

layout.css.devPixelsPerPx

What is your setting for this?

Phil

-- 
Philip Chee phi...@aleytys.pc.my, philip.c...@gmail.com
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ http://xsidebar.mozdev.org
Guard us from the she-wolf and the wolf, and guard us from the thief,
oh Night, and so be good for us to pass.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Ray Davison


Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


I'm curious which (types of) users are having the problem. I myself
didn't notice the slightest difference on either machine. Of course, my
customizations or lack thereof might be different, I might use a
different set of add-ins, etc.

User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:22.0) Gecko/20100101 
Firefox/22.0 SeaMonkey/2.19


How about this?  The original thread started by Philip Taylor has what I 
consider normal text.  This branch started by Chicagofan has half size 
text for it and all following messages.


Ray



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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Geoff Welsh wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.


I'm curious which (types of) users are having the problem. I myself
didn't notice the slightest difference on either machine. Of course, my
customizations or lack thereof might be different, I might use a
different set of add-ins, etc.



all of 2.19 for me looks exactly the same as 2.17.1

15 MacBook Pro, OSX 10.6.8, set to 1280x800

GW


How can I revert? I'm not having any font problems, but the busy cursor is back everywhere, I'm getting frequent not responding messages, and there's a javascript hang that is 
happening on several websites. It's not quite as bad as in January, but almost. I'm on Win7 64-bit if that makes a difference. Did not notice anything on the WinXP laptop.


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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Mark Berger


chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Rick Merrill


On 7/6/2013 3:47 AM, Rob wrote:

Andrea Govoni x...@mac.com wrote:

IMHO, the advantages to go for the easy fix route is that you'll be able
to stay on the current stable version line, with all the security fixes
and function/code benefits that it means.
For example, if you encounter a bug or experience a SM crash you'll not
have to wonder or research if that's already been fixed in the stable
version.


On the other hand, if something that worked for years is suddenly
broken, you won't have to endure that when you stay on a fixed version
and ignore the babble about security.

It is becoming more and more of a problem that security fixes and playing
with new stuff is done on the same version chain.

Everytime when the please update because we have fixed all those important
security problems message goes out, it is a disaster for many users
because they suddenly have problems they never had.

At work, we have been using Netscape Communicator since 2001, later
Mozilla and currently are using Seamonkey, bit starting in the 2.1x series
it has become a disaster.  Many times when a new version was released,
critical issues popped up the first few days of company-wide use (despite
testing for a week or two of daily use within the IT department), that
required me to make hastly moves like locking settings or rolling back
to the previous version.   Now we are stuck to 2.14.1 and I don't dare
to change it anymore.  I know the issues and have worked around the most
critical ones.

Migration to IE+Outlook is around the corner.  It is a pity, but there
seems to be no hope for Seamonkey (or other Mozilla products) in a
production environment.




Just blame it on the firewall. - Dilbert


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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Robert Kaiser


Philip Taylor schrieb:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.


OK, so when your OS is reporting things to your applications that you 
consider wrong, then your solution is to use old, insecure versions of 
the applications? Maybe you should either correct the OS settings or 
install an OS you can actually trust?


Robert Kaiser

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Ray Davison wrote:


Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


I'm curious which (types of) users are having the problem. I
myself didn't notice the slightest difference on either machine. Of
course, my customizations or lack thereof might be different, I
might use a different set of add-ins, etc.


User agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:22.0)
Gecko/20100101 Firefox/22.0 SeaMonkey/2.19

How about this?  The original thread started by Philip Taylor has
what I consider normal text.  This branch started by Chicagofan has
half size text for it and all following messages.


They all look exactly the same to me because I'm displaying them in 
plain text.


Philip Taylor's header says:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

which in and of itself is weird (I don't know how you can send Unicode 
in seven bits), but be that as it may...


Chicagofan's header says:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The difference in encoding suggests to me that you have your size prefs 
set differently for Western and Unicode. Look under Edit | Preferences | 
Appearance | Fonts and tell us what you have for

Western Monospace size
Western Monospace Minimum font size
Unicode Monospace size
Unicode Monospace Minimum font size
and whether Allow documents to use other fonts is enabled or not. I'll 
bet you dollars to donuts that the size prefs for Western are smaller.


--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Janine Starykowicz wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Janine Starykowicz wrote:


This is a newish Gateway laptop (December 2012). I had massive problems
in January, only add-in at that point was FlashBlock because I thought
Flash was causing the busy cursor. I've also tried disabling Flash
protected mode by adding ProtectedMode=0 to the Flash mms.cfg file but
can't save the change. The file does not look to be protected.


I do have protected mode disabled, and had no difficulty saving the
file when I modified it. Opened with Notepad, made the modification,
saved, end of story. How did you try to do it?

Shockwave Flash version: 11.7.700.224
Shockwave for Director version: 12.0.2.122

P.S. I do sometimes get the busy cursor when I mouse over the
mail/news folder list, but other than the visual distraction, it seems
to carry no performance penalty.


When I open it in Notepad and try to save it, I get a popup saying
Access is denied.

HTML-Kit seems to save it, but the original file is still dated
6/15/2013 with no changes.

Just tried Notepad++ and it thinks another program is using the file. Do
I need to close SeaMonkey first?


Worth a shot. AFAIK SM doesn't use the file directly, but it seems 
reasonable to suppose the Flash plugin might. If that doesn't work, try 
rebooting your computer and performing the editing process first, before 
launching any other programs.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Cruz, Jaime wrote, On 05/07/2013 14:03:

Ray_Net wrote:

chicagofan wrote, On 04/07/2013 22:59:

Mark Berger wrote:

chicagofan wrote:

Philip Taylor wrote:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.
Philip Taylor


What specifically is wrong with 2.19, besides the size problem you
mentioned before?
bj


Font size problem is enough to stop using it.

Are you saying you can NOT change the font size or display resolution
to make it satisfactory for your use?
bj

Why are we obliged to fiddle, fiddle again ... because the developper do
things bad ?


It's an open source project, so if you think you can do better I'm 
sure they'd appreciate the help.



I just said that the problem must be corrected instead of fiddling, and 
instead of passing time for developping new gadgets. Il have a huge lit 
of bugs that will never be corrected - Some of those are in the WRONG 
status corrected when it's not corrected :-(

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Chris Ilias


On 2013-07-06 12:34 PM, Noob42 wrote:

snip


Noob42, As per http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/cancellation.html, 
I'm removing your post from the news server, because it contains a 
personal attack.



--
Chris Ilias http://ilias.ca
Newsgroup moderator
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Philip Chee wrote:


On 05/07/2013 03:53, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:


I'm curious which (types of) users are having the problem. I
myself didn't notice the slightest difference on either machine. Of
course, my customizations or lack thereof might be different, I
might use a different set of add-ins, etc.


There is a problem with hardware acceleration (on/off) and/or high
resolution HiDPI screens.

Please go to about:config and filter for

layout.css.devPixelsPerPx

What is your setting for this?


default, string, -1.0

on this machine, haven't checked the other yet.

--
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--
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Janine Starykowicz wrote:

How can I revert? I'm not having any font problems, but the busy
cursor is back everywhere, I'm getting frequent not responding
messages, and there's a javascript hang that is happening on several
websites. It's not quite as bad as in January, but almost. I'm on
Win7 64-bit if that makes a difference. Did not notice anything on
the WinXP laptop.

I'm on Win7 64-bit as well, and haven't noticed the issues you describe.

The usual recommendation in such situations is to begin by disabling all
add-ins, and then enabling them one at a time until the problems return.

If there are particular websites you are having trouble with, I suggest you
post the URLs here so the experts can check them out. With 800 bazillion web
pages out there, it's
really hard for them to figure out which ones you're talking about without a
clue.

Multiple, mostly news-type, websites. It's the standard unresponsive script popup, but stop script doesn't work (goes away but pops back up) only continue. One site I've gotten it
from several times is www.nwitimes.com

This is the script:
chrome://communicator/content/dataman/dataman.js:1101

This is a newish Gateway laptop (December 2012). I had massive problems in January, only add-in at that point was FlashBlock because I though Flash was causing the busy cursor.
I've also tried disabling Flash protected mode by adding ProtectedMode=0 to the Flash mms.cfg file but can't save the change. The file does not look to be protected.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Robert Kaiser


Philip TAYLOR schrieb:

A new release of an application on
which I rely is terminally broken when used with medium-sized
fonts (125%) as opposed to the default of small (100%).


No, from all I know, it's now actually respecting that 125% setting 
while before it wrongly ignored this setting completely. So, from that 
POV, a bug has been actually fixed.


Robert Kaiser

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Janine Starykowicz wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote:

Janine Starykowicz wrote:


How can I revert? I'm not having any font problems, but the busy
cursor is back everywhere, I'm getting frequent not responding
messages, and there's a javascript hang that is happening on several
websites. It's not quite as bad as in January, but almost. I'm on
Win7 64-bit if that makes a difference. Did not notice anything on
the WinXP laptop.


I'm on Win7 64-bit as well, and haven't noticed the issues you describe.

The usual recommendation in such situations is to begin by disabling
all add-ins, and then enabling them one at a time until the problems
return.

If there are particular websites you are having trouble with, I
suggest you post the URLs here so the experts can check them out. With
800 bazillion web pages out there, it's
really hard for them to figure out which ones you're talking about
without a clue.


Multiple, mostly news-type, websites. It's the standard unresponsive
script popup, but stop script doesn't work (goes away but pops back up)
only continue. One site I've gotten it from several times is
www.nwitimes.com

This is the script:
chrome://communicator/content/dataman/dataman.js:1101


On my machine, the site comes up quickly and cleanly with no error 
messages. I navigated to several news stories, including one that was 
all-video, without difficulty.



This is a newish Gateway laptop (December 2012). I had massive problems
in January, only add-in at that point was FlashBlock because I thought
Flash was causing the busy cursor. I've also tried disabling Flash
protected mode by adding ProtectedMode=0 to the Flash mms.cfg file but
can't save the change. The file does not look to be protected.


I do have protected mode disabled, and had no difficulty saving the file 
when I modified it. Opened with Notepad, made the modification, saved, 
end of story. How did you try to do it?


Shockwave Flash version: 11.7.700.224
Shockwave for Director version: 12.0.2.122

P.S. I do sometimes get the busy cursor when I mouse over the mail/news 
folder list, but other than the visual distraction, it seems to carry no 
performance penalty.


--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Rob

Andrea Govoni x...@mac.com wrote:
 IMHO, the advantages to go for the easy fix route is that you'll be able
 to stay on the current stable version line, with all the security fixes
 and function/code benefits that it means.
 For example, if you encounter a bug or experience a SM crash you'll not
 have to wonder or research if that's already been fixed in the stable
 version.

On the other hand, if something that worked for years is suddenly
broken, you won't have to endure that when you stay on a fixed version
and ignore the babble about security.

It is becoming more and more of a problem that security fixes and playing
with new stuff is done on the same version chain.

Everytime when the please update because we have fixed all those important
security problems message goes out, it is a disaster for many users
because they suddenly have problems they never had.

At work, we have been using Netscape Communicator since 2001, later
Mozilla and currently are using Seamonkey, bit starting in the 2.1x series
it has become a disaster.  Many times when a new version was released,
critical issues popped up the first few days of company-wide use (despite
testing for a week or two of daily use within the IT department), that
required me to make hastly moves like locking settings or rolling back
to the previous version.   Now we are stuck to 2.14.1 and I don't dare
to change it anymore.  I know the issues and have worked around the most
critical ones.

Migration to IE+Outlook is around the corner.  It is a pity, but there
seems to be no hope for Seamonkey (or other Mozilla products) in a
production environment.
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


rob wrote:


On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 01:14:54 -0500, Janine Starykowicz
n...@barntowire.com wrote:


but the busy cursor is back everywhere, I'm getting frequent not
responding messages, and there's a javascript hang that is
happening on several websites. It's not quite as bad as in January,
but almost. I'm on Win7 64-bit if that makes a difference. Did not
notice anything on the WinXP laptop.


I'm having the same problem on the same OS.  SM will work fine for a
day or two and then wham!, some sites, nytimes.com, for example,
bring it to its knees.  Restarting SM doesn't help.  I switch to FF
for a couple of hours, and SM fixes itself or maybe Win7 does
something.  Several clean installs from zip versions, no extensions,
plug-ins (except for the ones that it finds, such as pdf).
Bookmarks.html from 2.18 imported.  Don't know if 2.18 had the
problem on W7, since about 2 weeks ago got bounced at work from XP
box to W7 box, coincident with my moving from 2.18 to .19.  Maybe
Monday I'll install 2.18 and see what happens  No problems here
at home with 2.19 on XP with quite a few extensions etc.


Please give a clear, detailed description of bring it to its knees. 
I'm running SM 2.19 on Win7 64 and have never had any problems with 
nytimes.com.


Perhaps it helps that I use AdBlock Plus -- it doesn't let the 
advertisers' scripts run.


When I first load the site, I get a blank page saying
[ ] Skip this ad
If I wait, it goes away and the front page loads normally, but it sets a 
bunch of cookies. So I set the cookie pref to reject all, and I only got 
half as many! Why? Because it only changed the permission for 
www.nytimes.com and not for nytimes.com! So I blocked that one, too, and 
the site refused to serve any content other than the front page -- it 
wanted me to either log in or accept cookies (and of course you can't 
log in without accepting cookies). When I reenabled session cookies, it 
behaved normally.


I still get no script errors, no hangs, no slow loads, no problems other 
than having to let Big Brother track me.


--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Ray_Net wrote:


Janine Starykowicz wrote, On 06/07/2013 18:13:


When I open it in Notepad and try to save it, I get a popup saying
Access is denied.


Change mms.cfg to mms.cfg-original
Copy mms.cfg-original to mms.txt
Edit and save mms.txt
Change mms.txt to mms.cfg


Works fine if the file is not locked/in use. That's an OS feature that 
will also prevent renaming. Of course, if the file isn't locked, you 
don't have to go through all this rigmarole. Just open, edit, save, and 
you're done.


Another possibility is that the system wants Janine to have admin 
privileges. In that case, she has to login as an administrator before 
modifying the file.


--
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--
Paul B. Gallagher

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Paul B. Gallagher wrote, On 07/07/2013 00:04:

Ray_Net wrote:


Janine Starykowicz wrote, On 06/07/2013 18:13:


When I open it in Notepad and try to save it, I get a popup saying
Access is denied.


Change mms.cfg to mms.cfg-original
Copy mms.cfg-original to mms.txt
Edit and save mms.txt
Change mms.txt to mms.cfg


Works fine if the file is not locked/in use. That's an OS feature that 
will also prevent renaming. Of course, if the file isn't locked, you 
don't have to go through all this rigmarole. Just open, edit, save, 
and you're done.


That was my only way to do it - the OS *accept* the changes .. OS *never 
accept* that i save mms.cfg !

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Rufus


Philip TAYLOR wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:


Philip Taylor schrieb:

Now reverted to 2.17.1.  2.19 cannot be used in its present state.


OK, so when your OS is reporting things to your applications that you
consider wrong, then your solution is to use old, insecure versions of
the applications? Maybe you should either correct the OS settings or
install an OS you can actually trust?


My operating system is not reporting things to my application
that I consider wrong.  A new release of an application on
which I rely is terminally broken when used with medium-sized
fonts (125%) as opposed to the default of small (100%).  This
has been widely reported elsewhere, but the only productive
recommendations are to (a) make changes to About:Config; (b)
create and add content to userChrome.css, and (c) create and
add content to userContent.css.  It is clearly the case that
2.19 was /never/ tested against other than the default size
for Windows fonts, as it is inconceivable that it could have
been released had this defect been known to the developers.

Whilst I fully appreciate that lack of resources make it
impossible to regression test every release on every conceivable
platform and with every possibly user option, what we are
discussing here is the most widely used operating system in
the world and a user-preference on which, for reasons of
accessibility, a substantial minority of users will be
completely dependent.  This problem needs to be addressed
/urgently/, and not require all affected users to make
changes to About:Config, userChrome.css  userContent.css

Philip Taylor



Right-on, Phillip.  First, do no harm...as the physician's ethic puts it.

And I can say/add the same sentiment about ALL *basic* functionality of 
the product and for ALL OS releases.  That's just pride of 
workmanship/proper QA, IMO.


--
 - Rufus
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote, On 07/07/2013 00:04:

Ray_Net wrote:


Janine Starykowicz wrote, On 06/07/2013 18:13:


When I open it in Notepad and try to save it, I get a popup saying
Access is denied.


Change mms.cfg to mms.cfg-original
Copy mms.cfg-original to mms.txt
Edit and save mms.txt
Change mms.txt to mms.cfg


Works fine if the file is not locked/in use. That's an OS feature that will 
also prevent renaming. Of course, if the file isn't locked, you don't have to 
go through all this
rigmarole. Just open, edit, save, and you're done.


That was my only way to do it - the OS *accept* the changes .. OS *never 
accept* that i save mms.cfg !


It won't let me save anything in the Flash folder, keeps sending mms.txt to Documents. Keeps telling me to talk to admin, but I am admin. I've tried unchecking read only on the 
Flash folder, but there is a file that can't be reset and that stops it. Can't see any way to avoid that file, seems it is all or nothing. The file mms.cfg does not have individual 
read only, just inherits from the folder.


OK, tried to copy the file into the Flash folder and it worked! Got the you need to 
be admin prompt, hit continue and it did. Next problem is renaming it, it turns 
into mms.cfg.txt

Tried opening in HTM-Kit and re-saving, same problem: mms.cfg.txt. I can force 
Notepad++ to try to save it as mms.cfg, but get the no permission in this 
folder error.

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Ed Mullen wrote:


Janine Starykowicz wrote:


It won't let me save anything in the Flash folder, keeps sending
mms.txt to Documents. Keeps telling me to talk to admin, but I am
admin. ...


Does your User Account have Administrative privleges?


She said so -- see the excerpt above remaining after pruning.

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--
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Mark Berger


Philip TAYLOR wrote:

Robert Kaiser wrote:


Philip TAYLOR schrieb:

A new release of an application on
which I rely is terminally broken when used with medium-sized
fonts (125%) as opposed to the default of small (100%).


No, from all I know, it's now actually respecting that 125% setting
while before it wrongly ignored this setting completely. So, from that
POV, a bug has been actually fixed.


And yet, the browser becomes completely unusable when 125% fonts
are selected.  Web pages appear two steps zoomed, and if one
applies the recommended fix to About:Config::layout.css.devPixelsPerPx
- +1 (default : -1), the system/Chrome fonts then appear unreadably small.

I am sure you would agree that it is extremely unlikely that
Internet Explorer does not also respect font-size: medium,
yet it and Seamonkey 2.17.1 render the same page almost
identically while IE and Seamonkey 2.19 render it completely
differently (the latter being two zoom steps larger, as
stated above).

Philip Taylofr



from that POV, a bug has been actually fixed.

From my POV, fixing that bug has introduced all sorts of problems. 
Should I now have to change my entire system font size just so SM 
behaves like it did before?


How do I turn off this wonderful bug fix?
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19

2013-07-10 Thread Zanqeutil


Philip TAYLOR schreef:

Robert Kaiser wrote:


Philip TAYLOR schrieb:

A new release of an application on
which I rely is terminally broken when used with medium-sized
fonts (125%) as opposed to the default of small (100%).


No, from all I know, it's now actually respecting that 125% setting
while before it wrongly ignored this setting completely. So, from that
POV, a bug has been actually fixed.


And yet, the browser becomes completely unusable when 125% fonts
are selected.  Web pages appear two steps zoomed, and if one
applies the recommended fix to About:Config::layout.css.devPixelsPerPx
- +1 (default : -1), the system/Chrome fonts then appear unreadably small.

I am sure you would agree that it is extremely unlikely that
Internet Explorer does not also respect font-size: medium,
yet it and Seamonkey 2.17.1 render the same page almost
identically while IE and Seamonkey 2.19 render it completely
differently (the latter being two zoom steps larger, as
stated above).

Philip Taylofr



You can use the Theme Font  Size Changer add-on

Windows XP Pro SP3 Seamonkey 2.19
I use an old 17 inch CRT monitor, resolution 800 x 100 at 120%

I apllied the setting
about:config layout.css.devPixelsPerPx : 1 default : -1
Web content is now 100% but the menu fonts became very tiny in the 
browser and in email.


So I installed the Theme Font  Size Changer add-on

https://addons.mozilla.org/nl/firefox/addon/theme-font-size-changer/

It places a very big button at the navigation bar left from the throbber 
but you can easy drag it (customize)to the Menubar.

I set the font size at 13 pts everything looks fine again.

Here are some tinypic screenshots.

1.Theme Font  Size Changer very big button at the navigation bar

http://i42.tinypic.com/2nb7tcn.jpg
http://tinypic.com/r/2nb7tcn/5

2. Theme Font  Size Changer Default settings (normal) button at menubar

http://i43.tinypic.com/33k9ceg.jpg
http://tinypic.com/r/33k9ceg/5

3. Theme Font  Size Changer set font size 13 pts,
all other settings normal

http://i40.tinypic.com/116oz5t.jpg
http://tinypic.com/r/116oz5t/5

4. Mail News too small fonts

http://i43.tinypic.com/15h277o.jpg
http://tinypic.com/r/15h277o/5

5. Mail News font size 13 pts

http://i43.tinypic.com/34ep56u.jpg
http://tinypic.com/r/34ep56u/5

Zanqeutil

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Re: Seamonkey 2.19


Janine Starykowicz wrote:

Ray_Net wrote:

Paul B. Gallagher wrote, On 07/07/2013 00:04:

Ray_Net wrote:


Janine Starykowicz wrote, On 06/07/2013 18:13:


When I open it in Notepad and try to save it, I get a popup saying
Access is denied.


Change mms.cfg to mms.cfg-original
Copy mms.cfg-original to mms.txt
Edit and save mms.txt
Change mms.txt to mms.cfg


Works fine if the file is not locked/in use. That's an OS feature
that will also prevent renaming. Of course, if the file isn't locked,
you don't have to go through all this
rigmarole. Just open, edit, save, and you're done.


That was my only way to do it - the OS *accept* the changes .. OS
*never accept* that i save mms.cfg !


It won't let me save anything in the Flash folder, keeps sending mms.txt
to Documents. Keeps telling me to talk to admin, but I am admin. I've
tried unchecking read only on the Flash folder, but there is a file that
can't be reset and that stops it. Can't see any way to avoid that file,
seems it is all or nothing. The file mms.cfg does not have individual
read only, just inherits from the folder.

OK, tried to copy the file into the Flash folder and it worked! Got the
you need to be admin prompt, hit continue and it did. Next problem is
renaming it, it turns into mms.cfg.txt

Tried opening in HTM-Kit and re-saving, same problem: mms.cfg.txt. I can
force Notepad++ to try to save it as mms.cfg, but get the no permission
in this folder error.


You might try renaming the copy in the Documents folder first, then 
moving the properly named file to the Flash folder. When it protests 
that the file already exists, tell it to go ahead and overwrite.


--
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--
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Re: Seamonkey 2.19