date:20111221

On 20 December 2011 21:27, Richard Weait rich...@weait.com wrote:
 Dear All,

 LWG would like feedback on a couple of items relating to cleaning
 tainted data as we all prepare for the data base transition.

 Draft minutes are here.

 https://docs.google.com/document/pub?id=1ZIQSl0xXpUFbqTeknz61BYgfCINDTzlAWomOiGxhgG8

 Of particular interest are:
 - can node positions be cleaned by moving to a new position?

These question should really be asked to a lawyer who also knows how
OSM works.  I understand the LWG may want to ask the community if this
is worth consulting.  But ultimately the cleanness criteria are not up
for voting or discussion in a circle of people who obviously want to
be done with this process without losing their contributions (or
anyone else who's not expert in IPR really)

(on the other hand there is a lot of things that could, and maybe
should, be decided by all of community but instead are decided in a
small group, like the date for the switch to a next phase of the
license change process)

 - is a mapper declaration of odbl=clean interesting and helpful in
 reconciling the data base?

Definitely, and I think odbl=no would also be useful to mark objects
that are known to come from ODbL-incompatible sources but whose
contributors accepted Contributor Terms 1.2.4, of which there is a
significant number.

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

I think the test must be the same as for any other data which OSMF does not have
permission to use.  If a mapper added a node by copying from Google Maps, but
then another mapper moved it to a different position using a permitted data
source, is it okay to keep that node in the database?

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer

2011/12/21 ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen g.grem...@cetest.nl:
 I think it's relevant that node changes as suggested
 should involve stand alone nodes only (such as POI).
 Once they are part of a structure of say a building or a road, water
 or any area, the nodes should be considered a composition  rather
 then 4 nodes


IMHO rights on this composition can also faint, e.g. years ago a
(non-ct) mapper was drawing a rough street with nodes every 300
meters. Now those initial way has five times more nodes then it had in
its initial version (most probably the initial way would also be split
into different pieces now, due to details like speed limits,
turn-restrictions, bus routes, lane-count, ...).

I think there must also be a point where nothing from the initial way
is actually contained in the current data (often these initial ways
don't have much attributes, it is common in here to find ways which
only have/had a highway-tag (the value is now often changed, so not
even one tag is the same). If you assume that other tags (like the
name) would also have been inserted by the following mappers you could
extend this to ways which had a name (or some other frequent tag, for
which a following mapper guarantees that he would have added it if it
were missing).


 While the underlying structure is a geographic fact, the choice
 of place nodes and the number to represent the structure is
 a creative work.


+1, but where is the point that this structure is significantly
changed? How many nodes do you have to move and insert/delete to be
something different?

What if someone takes a river, moves it aside and lets it become a
track (deletes the river tags and sets highway-tag, changes name). Now
he copies this way as a new way (new nodes and way) to the old
position of the river and sets tags. Is the track-way now tainted
because it consists of old nodes, while the river is OK because it was
newly created? Admittedly a rare corner case, but IMHO one that shows
that there is a point where there is no more original information in
the following versions of a way.

cheers,
Martin

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

A common way to adjust a node position is to move it halfway between
the old one and the new one.  For example, if there is already a way
on the map traced from GPS but you have a new GPS trace for it which
is a bit different, it would be unwise to adjust it to exactly fit
your new trace.  But you may expect to improve accuracy a bit if you
adjust it to about halfway between the old and new positions.
Similarly a node such as a bus stop may have its position tweaked to
somewhere in between where it was and the new observed position.

So I don't think you can assume that when a node is moved its position
information is 'cleaned' somehow.  The new position as often as not is
derived from the old position.

--
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

Richard Weait richard@... writes:

We consider that the creation of an
object and its id to be a system action  rather than individual
creative contribution.

However, 'the creation of an object and its id' never occurs by itself.
At a minimum, you create an object with id and lat/lon, and that location data
is part of the OSM map.  The next version of the node, even if its position
has been adjusted, is likely to be derived from this data.

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested



Please don't confuse the matter by treating tagged and untagged notes 
the same.


If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is 
interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of 
other ways) then he is doing exactly that, just because he is reusing an 
existing object (pre-numbered sheet remember) to mark a new interpolated 
position doesn't mean it is a derived work (because it is simply no 
different than taking a new sheet of paper with a different number).


Now if you wish to state that interpolation itself creates a derived 
work, please argue that.


Simon

Am 21.12.2011 13:10, schrieb Ed Avis:

A common way to adjust a node position is to move it halfway between
the old one and the new one.  For example, if there is already a way
on the map traced from GPS but you have a new GPS trace for it which
is a bit different, it would be unwise to adjust it to exactly fit
your new trace.  But you may expect to improve accuracy a bit if you
adjust it to about halfway between the old and new positions.
Similarly a node such as a bus stop may have its position tweaked to
somewhere in between where it was and the new observed position.

So I don't think you can assume that when a node is moved its position
information is 'cleaned' somehow.  The new position as often as not is
derived from the old position.

--
Ed Avise...@waniasset.com



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

Simon Poole simon@... writes:

If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is 
interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of 
other ways) then he is doing exactly that,

That is exactly it: improving the geometry of a way.  Not replacing it.
If you take an existing street and adjust its position it is hard to argue
that you have taken a completely clean-room approach to doing so, not using
the existing geometry at all.  The existing geometry is there on your screen
while you are editing!

Yes, there are some cases where you might totally ignore the existing geometry
(perhaps because it has been messed up by a newcomer hitting the wrong buttons
in Potlatch) and recreate it wholesale.  But those are a small minority.

just because he is reusing an 
existing object (pre-numbered sheet remember) to mark a new interpolated 
position doesn't mean it is a derived work

Agreed - that in itself is not enough.  If a mapper grabbed some existing
node from the database and removed its location data entirely (perhaps taking
it from a global stock of 'spare nodes' kept in the Pacific ocean) then it
would clearly not be derived.  But why do that when you can just click to
create a new node?  If the mapper starts with a node that's already
in roughly the right place and just adjusts it a little bit, then the new
position is derived from the old one.

Now if you wish to state that interpolation itself creates a derived 
work, please argue that.

By interpolation I was referring to the practice of taking two paths (be they
two GPS traces, one GPS trace and one existing way on the map, a way on the map
and a path visible in an aerial photograph, etc) and combining them to make a
new path which is roughly halfway between the two.  For example if mapping from
GPS plus an existing out-of-copyright map you may trace a way which is about
halfway between your GPS trace and what you see on the old map - since neither
of them by itself is entirely accurate.  Doing this makes the new path derived
from both the old one and the new one.

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

On 21 December 2011 12:43, Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com wrote:
 andrzej zaborowski balrogg@... writes:
- is a mapper declaration of odbl=clean interesting and helpful in
reconciling the data base?

Definitely, and I think odbl=no would also be useful to mark objects
that are known to come from ODbL-incompatible sources but whose
contributors accepted Contributor Terms 1.2.4, of which there is a
significant number.

 Hold on - is OSMF going to delete contributions even from some people who 
 *did*
 accept the new contributor terms?  (I'm not saying it should or it should not,
 but this needs to be made clear.)

This has been made clear many times: whether to delete an object or
not needs to be decided looking at some part of its edits history, so
even if your contribution is clean, the object may be tainted.

The case I'm thinking about though is where a mapper accepted CT but
had previously (or later) contributed data incompatible with ODbL.
Which is something that seems to be allowed by CT, as long as 1. you
grant OSMF the rights that you have in the data, 2. what you uploaded
was compatible with current licensing.

Cheers

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested


Am 21.12.2011 13:34, schrieb Ed Avis:

Simon Poolesimon@...  writes:


If somebody is improving the geometry of a way because he is
interpolating from the available information (may that be GPS traces of
other ways) then he is doing exactly that,

That is exactly it: improving the geometry of a way.  Not replacing it.
If you take an existing street and adjust its position it is hard to argue
that you have taken a completely clean-room approach to doing so, not using
the existing geometry at all.  The existing geometry is there on your screen
while you are editing!


If you take an existing tainted way and move it they way is still going 
to go, so what is your point again?



Now if you wish to state that interpolation itself creates a derived
work, please argue that.

By interpolation I was referring to the practice of taking two paths (be they
two GPS traces, one GPS trace and one existing way on the map, a way on the map
and a path visible in an aerial photograph, etc) and combining them to make a
new path which is roughly halfway between the two.  For example if mapping from
GPS plus an existing out-of-copyright map you may trace a way which is about
halfway between your GPS trace and what you see on the old map - since neither
of them by itself is entirely accurate.  Doing this makes the new path derived
from both the old one and the new one.

You are using derived in a common language sense, please argue why this 
is a derived work in the IP/legal sense (choose any jurisdiction you 
would like).


Simon

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

Simon Poole simon@... writes:

If you take an existing tainted way and move it they way is still going 
to go, so what is your point again?

Are we not talking about the following situation:

   - mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way
   - mapper B (who has not agreed) adjusts the way's geometry, creating
 some new nodes
   - mapper C (who has agreed) adjusts the position of those nodes

In this case the third edit would have to be reverted because the new position
of the nodes is still based on work contributed by mapper B, even though they
have been moved since he created them.

You are using derived in a common language sense, please argue why this 
is a derived work in the IP/legal sense (choose any jurisdiction you 
would like).

That is a question for lawyers.  I do not know whether it is a derived work 
under
copyright law or sui generis database rights.  Normally the approach of the
project is to not import data from sources that do not have permission, and if 
it
gets into the database, to delete it (reverting the changeset) as soon as
possible.  We don't get into the business of judging whether we might get away
with including it anyway, because we are not lawyers.  So we have to use the
common-sense judgement of whether one piece of work builds on another.

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested


Am 21.12.2011 14:15, schrieb Ed Avis:

Simon Poolesimon@...  writes:


If you take an existing tainted way and move it they way is still going
to go, so what is your point again?

Are we not talking about the following situation:

- mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way
- mapper B (who has not agreed) adjusts the way's geometry, creating
  some new nodes
- mapper C (who has agreed) adjusts the position of those nodes

In this case the third edit would have to be reverted because the new position
of the nodes is still based on work contributed by mapper B, even though they
have been moved since he created them.


IMHO no, if we assume that C is editing in good faith and actually 
improving the geometry (we might want to have a minimum distance 
requirement for a move to be considered ok).



You are using derived in a common language sense, please argue why this
is a derived work in the IP/legal sense (choose any jurisdiction you
would like).

That is a question for lawyers.  I do not know whether it is a derived work 
under
copyright law or sui generis database rights.  Normally the approach of the
project is to not import data from sources that do not have permission, and if 
it
gets into the database, to delete it (reverting the changeset) as soon as
possible.  We don't get into the business of judging whether we might get away
with including it anyway, because we are not lawyers.  So we have to use the
common-sense judgement of whether one piece of work builds on another.

In general we have assumed that for example tracing from aerial imagery 
and similar sources does not create a derived work in which the creator 
of the imagery has rights (not that I necessarily agree with that). The 
requirement has always been that we have had permission to trace at the 
point in time that the tracing happened (forgetting about special cases 
like NearMap) .  The argument of the proponents that IP exists at all in 
ways and similar objects has been that the tracing (regardless of 
source) was an expression of creativity and that that expresses itself 
in, among other properties,  the placement of nodes where it is found 
aesthetically pleasing.


So why is one a derived work and the other not?

Simon



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested


Am 21.12.2011 14:50, schrieb Ed Avis:

Simon Poolesimon@...  writes:


In general we have assumed that for example tracing from aerial imagery
and similar sources does not create a derived work in which the creator
of the imagery has rights (not that I necessarily agree with that). The
requirement has always been that we have had permission to trace at the
point in time that the tracing happened

Right - we require permission.  So for example tracing from Google Maps is not
allowed, even if the legal theory about not creating a derived work turns out
to be correct.

I contend that mappers' contributions would need to be treated no different to
any other external data source.  If we have permission, we can use them, if not,
we can't.  If one mapper illegitimately adjusted the position of a way by
using Google Earth as a backdrop, but then a second mapper moved the position
of the nodes some more, normal OSM practice would still be to delete the tainted
data.

So you contend that there was no permission to use positional 
information entered in the DB by other mappers to interpolate prior to 
the current CTs (obviously this is not covered by CC-by-SA 2.0)?


Simon



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike


Quoting Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com:


Simon Poole simon@... writes:


   - mapper A (who has agreed to the CTs) creates a way
   - mapper B (who has not agreed) adjusts the way's geometry, creating
 some new nodes
   - mapper C (who has agreed) adjusts the position of those nodes

In this case the third edit would have to be reverted



IMHO no, if we assume that C is editing in good faith and actually
improving the geometry


I would say that C is mapping in good faith and improving the  
existing geometry
by building on the previous work done by B as well as his or her own  
surveying.
I've often walked around with a GPS, then come back and adjusted  
road positions.
I would not claim that the resulting position was all my own work,  
particuarly
as I did not wholesale replace the layout with my GPS track but  
rather tried to

find a middle path that lay between the existing geometry and the GPS.

Think about it another way - if mapper B had never existed, would the final
result be the same?  If mapper C is wholly replacing the geometry then the
answer is yes, and the new layout is entirely C's work.  If the answer is no,
then C is contributing useful information but relying on B's earlier work.

I contend that the second case is more common.  Certainly if you  
started mapping
and decided to totally ignore the existing layout of a way and  
replace it with

your GPS trace or aerial tracing, you would be criticized by most of your
fellow mappers.  It is more normal to make small adjustments, combining both
the new survey information and what went before.

(If you did decide to throw away the earlier work and start from scratch, you
might well just delete the existing object and make a new one.)


In general we have assumed that for example tracing from aerial imagery
and similar sources does not create a derived work in which the creator
of the imagery has rights (not that I necessarily agree with that). The
requirement has always been that we have had permission to trace at the
point in time that the tracing happened


Right - we require permission.  So for example tracing from Google  
Maps is not

allowed, even if the legal theory about not creating a derived work turns out
to be correct.

I contend that mappers' contributions would need to be treated no  
different to
any other external data source.  If we have permission, we can use  
them, if not,

we can't.  If one mapper illegitimately adjusted the position of a way by
using Google Earth as a backdrop, but then a second mapper moved the position
of the nodes some more, normal OSM practice would still be to delete  
the tainted

data.

If there is to be an exception (which does seem to me like one rule for
ordinary mappers, another rule for the OSMF) then I think the onus  
is on those
proposing it to do the legal research making sure it is safe.  Of  
course it is
far more tempting to wave hands and pick whatever policy helps to  
get the whole

business over with, but that is not a sound way to make legal decisions.


With respect to the legal fraternity, I think we are the experts here  
as this thread is showing from all parties ... collectively making a  
set of highly precise technical decisions based on general  
legally-enshrined principles.


What we should be considering in making our final decisions is

1) risk - If we do/don't do something, what is the future risk to the project?

and

2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of  
folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree  
with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP  
owner ... but feel we are already doing that in this and other  
conversations.


I would also point out that Safe Harbour provisions also apply, if an  
ex-contributor later points out remaining instances of IP, then the  
OSMF will take steps to remove them. We naturally want that to be  
negligible or zero but it is an extra safe-guard.



Mike
LWG


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

Sorry, I appreciate your taking the time to go through the arguments on this
but I think I have said all I have to say about node positions.  I'll let others
decide whether what I wrote makes sense.

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

 mike@... writes:

2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of  
folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree  
with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP  
owner ... but feel we are already doing that in this and other  
conversations.

Mike, in that case I would ask you to apply the 'Google Maps test'.  If some
map data were entered by copying from a third party who did not give permission,
but then edited in good faith, how much of the data needs to be unpicked?
In the past OSMF has taken a very cautious approach to this, which I believe
is the right one.

If after careful consideration you do formulate a policy ('the LWG declares that
creating a node is not a creative operation, so it can be kept as long as it has
been moved by somebody else afterwards', or whatever you decide), then it should
also be applied to such third-party-copyright situations going forward.

Originally it was promised that no big deletion would go ahead if it would cause
too much damage to the OSM data.  Is that still the case and if so who is tasked
with deciding whether to pull the switch?

-- 
Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike


Quoting Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com:

 mike@... writes:

2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of
folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree
with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP
owner ... but feel we are already doing that in this and other
conversations.


Mike, in that case I would ask you to apply the 'Google Maps test'.  If some
map data were entered by copying from a third party who did not give  
permission,

but then edited in good faith, how much of the data needs to be unpicked?
In the past OSMF has taken a very cautious approach to this, which I believe
is the right one.


Ed,

Yes, that certainly seems reasonable to me though I would bow to the  
more technically clued up, such as the Data Working Group. I would  
speculate that it is an issue that has not come up, where there has  
not been any significant subsequent edit activity the simplest and  
most effective use of everyone's time is a simpler revert.


If after careful consideration you do formulate a policy ('the LWG  
declares that
creating a node is not a creative operation, so it can be kept as  
long as it has
been moved by somebody else afterwards', or whatever you decide),  
then it should

also be applied to such third-party-copyright situations going forward.


Again, very reasonable to me going forward.

Originally it was promised that no big deletion would go ahead if it  
would cause
too much damage to the OSM data.  Is that still the case and if so  
who is tasked

with deciding whether to pull the switch?


Community assent ... sounds vague to some may be, but has worked well  
so far.  Someone gave a good assessment in this or the Editing of  
Content thread, sorry I cannot access it at the moment.  By a number  
of measures, we are in the range of 95% of data good to go, so I'd  
personally say we are already at the no big deletion stage. We can  
still increase that though, so we should. We've also said that we also  
want to take local hotspots into consideration ... the UK, Germany and  
Spain have a lot of red spots for example.  The LWG's main task at the  
moment is to get more undecided and non-responders on board and to  
facilitate a small number of contributors who can say yes to some but  
not all their contributions.  Any chance of you changing your decline  
now, that is the easiest way of decreasing deletions?


Mike



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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

2011-12-21 Thread mike


Quoting Ed Avis e...@waniasset.com:

 mike@... writes:

2) good faith - are we making a reasonable effort to remove the IP of
folks who have not given us permission to continue? I certainly agree
with Ed that we should treat ex-contributors no differently to any IP
owner ... but feel we are already doing that in this and other
conversations.


Mike, in that case I would ask you to apply the 'Google Maps test'.  If some
map data were entered by copying from a third party who did not give  
permission,

but then edited in good faith, how much of the data needs to be unpicked?
In the past OSMF has taken a very cautious approach to this, which I believe
is the right one.


Ed,

Yes, that certainly seems reasonable to me though I would bow to the  
more technically clued up, such as the Data Working Group. I would  
speculate that it is an issue that has not come up, where there has  
not been any significant subsequent edit activity the simplest and  
most effective use of everyone's time is a simpler revert.


If after careful consideration you do formulate a policy ('the LWG  
declares that
creating a node is not a creative operation, so it can be kept as  
long as it has
been moved by somebody else afterwards', or whatever you decide),  
then it should

also be applied to such third-party-copyright situations going forward.


Again, very reasonable to me going forward.

Originally it was promised that no big deletion would go ahead if it  
would cause
too much damage to the OSM data.  Is that still the case and if so  
who is tasked

with deciding whether to pull the switch?


Community assent ... sounds vague to some may be, but has worked well  
so far.  Someone gave a good assessment in this or the Editing of  
Content thread, sorry I cannot access it at the moment.  By a number  
of measures, we are in the range of 95% of data good to go, so I'd  
personally say we are already at the no big deletion stage. We can  
still increase that though, so we should. We've also said that we also  
want to take local hotspots into consideration ... the UK, Germany and  
Spain have a lot of red spots for example.  The LWG's main task at the  
moment is to get more undecided and non-responders on board and to  
facilitate a small number of contributors who can say yes to some but  
not all their contributions.  Any chance of you changing your decline  
now, that is the easiest way of decreasing deletions?


Mike



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[OSM-legal-talk] Apologies for misleading munin graphs

2011-12-21 Thread Frederik Ramm


Hi,

   as you probably know I'm running statistics on the raw count of 
objects processed by the OSMI view and making Munin graphs of them here:


http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html

I'm afraid that there has been an error in some of the graphs (example 
graph with problem shown here 
http://www.remote.org/frederik/tmp/odbl_ways-month.png) where the Y axis 
did not start at 0, giving the impression that the number of problematic 
was smaller than it in fact is. Especially the way graph looked as if, 
if the trend continues, all problematic ways would be eliminated by 
January which was a bit over-optimistic!


I've fixed the configuration and the graphs are less euphemistic now. 
They are meant to inform, not to manipulate.


Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [OSM-talk] [osmosis-dev] Osmosis replication fails

2011-12-21 Thread Brett Henderson

On 18 December 2011 10:12, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:

 On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:
  When switching between minutely and hourly you have to change the
 sequenceNumber in state.txt
 
 

 Thanks -- how do you figure out the new sequence number though?


You need to pick a sequence number by examining the timestamp property in
the state files.  Pick a timestamp in the hour replication state files that
is earlier than the last timestamp received from the minute replication.
It's a bit tedious.  I seem to remember somebody creating a web-based too
to assist with this but I don't have a link handy.

Brett
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Re: [OSM-talk] [osmosis-dev] Osmosis replication fails

2011-12-21 Thread Richard Weait

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 7:19 AM, Brett Henderson br...@bretth.com wrote:
 On 18 December 2011 10:12, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote:

 On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Paul Norman penor...@mac.com wrote:
  When switching between minutely and hourly you have to change the
  sequenceNumber in state.txt
 
 

 Thanks -- how do you figure out the new sequence number though?


 You need to pick a sequence number by examining the timestamp property in
 the state files.  Pick a timestamp in the hour replication state files that
 is earlier than the last timestamp received from the minute replication.
 It's a bit tedious.  I seem to remember somebody creating a web-based too to
 assist with this but I don't have a link handy.

Here's one. http://toolserver.org/~mazder/replicate-sequences/

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Re: [OSM-talk] Vista eTrex 10,20,30 series

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Loach

Mike asked:

 A common method of photo surveying in OSM is to take a picture of
 the
 GPS while it displays the GPS Satellite time.   On the eTrex 30, I
can
 only display the time to the nearest minute.   Has anyone found a
 screen
 to display the seconds?   If not, it is useless as a reference
time
 source and we may need to lobby Garmin for an update.

Do any of the 4 alternatives in the Amazon review here help?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Garmin-eTrex-Outdoor-Handheld-Unit/dp/B00542
NVS2

Ed


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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested



I belive there are two parts to this

- one the specific action of moving a (untagged) node

- the more general statement, that an OSM object does not per se carry 
any IPR. An analogon if you like, would be a pre-numbered sheet of 
paper. This covers reuse of OSM-objects which have essentially have had 
their contents erased and have been rewritten.


Note that it is open to debate in how far (untagged) way nodes should 
survive removal of their parent object.


Simon

Am 21.12.2011 10:20, schrieb ce-test, qualified testing bv - Gert Gremmen:

I think it's relevant that node changes as suggested
should involve stand alone nodes only (such as POI).

Once they are part of a structure of say a building or a road, water
or any area, the nodes should be considered a composition  rather
then 4 nodes.
While the underlying structure is a geographic fact, the choice
of place nodes and the number to represent the structure is
a creative work.

I think this seems an obvious conclusion, but should be made clear.



In addition the LWG should also pay some attention to relations.


Regards,

Gert


-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Richard Weait [mailto:rich...@weait.com]
Verzonden: Wednesday, December 21, 2011 2:44 AM
Aan: Licensing and other legal discussions.
Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] feedback requested

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 4:39 PM, Jean-Marc Liotierj...@liotier.org
wrote:

On 12/20/2011 10:11 PM, Apollinaris Schoell wrote:

Of particular interest are:
- can node positions be cleaned by moving to a new position?

While you are at it, I would love to hear about a specific subset of

the

cases encompassed by this question : the cases where the edit is
correlated with a change of source. I asked this question a week ago

in

the Are objects still tainted when they are edited from a better

source

? thread here and it has not been answered yet.

And we're listening.  Tell us and be specific.  Some of us have been
remapping for a while.  Give examples.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Vista eTrex 10,20,30 series

2011-12-21 Thread Mike N


On 12/21/2011 4:29 AM, Ed Loach wrote:

Do any of the 4 alternatives in the Amazon review here help?


Yes - A direct link to the review with 4 alternatives is here:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R3RAKYFG6DOERN/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8ASIN=B00542NVS2nodeID=tag=linkCode=

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Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

Hi,

On 13 December 2011 23:03, David Earl da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
[...]
 What are the precise, numeric criteria for proceeding? At the moment even by
 a vague definition I don't see how one could describe it as a critical mass.

I'm responding to this old thread because now I think whoever made the
criteria could have answered the question asked here.  But really
there's probably no answer because the date was pulled out of thin
air.  There are old comments in the mailing list archives from LWG
members that when and how to measure if enough data is ready, would be
decided later by the contributors at that time.  I think the reason
this hasn't happened is that the LWG and the board work like
committees (for some time, perhaps not since the beginning).  A
committee can easily allow itself to change its mind or not answer
questions and it has to be noted that this is none of the committee
members' fault.  It's just how committees work.  Their time is too
valuable to be spent answering every single question asked or
considering lesser problems (it really is, since they meet once every
some time), which frees a committee from having to justify many
decisions.  It also has the leisure of having a high authority (it's
assumed to be an expert group even in a do-cracy) but at the same time
not having to stick to everything it says, which is unique.  Now a
license change is generally a terribly complex thing to execute and I
guess there's no other way to do it than through a committee with an
assigned mandate, who won't stop once it gains momentum; so we have to
live with that.

Cheers
--
some fortunes I just found:

The weaker the data available upon which to base one's conclusion,
the greater the precision which should be quoted in order to give
the data authenticity.

Cruickshank's Law of Committees:
If a committee is allowed to discuss a bad idea long enough, it
will inevitably decide to implement the idea simply because so
much work has already been done on it.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Editing of content that will be deleted on April 1st

2011-12-21 Thread Ed Loach

Andrzej wrote:

 On 13 December 2011 23:03, David Earl
 da...@frankieandshadow.com wrote:
 [...]
  What are the precise, numeric criteria for proceeding? At the
 moment even by
  a vague definition I don't see how one could describe it as a
 critical mass.
 
 I'm responding to this old thread because now I think whoever
 made the
 criteria could have answered the question asked here.  But really
 there's probably no answer because the date was pulled out of thin
 air.  

Well, I'm not on any committee, but I find it hard how anyone can't
think there is a critical mass. Over 95% of the data will be
retained, and this figure is increasing weekly both due to new
acceptances and of course ongoing mapping by those who have already
accepted. While there are still a large number of people who have at
one time or another signed up to the project who haven't yet
accepted, of those who have accepted or denied, over 99% have
accepted. Again the exact percentage is still increasing as efforts
are made to contact people who may have made a small number of edits
in the past and OSM don't have their current email address so they
are unaware of what is happening, but are more likely to accept than
not if they can be reached.

Anyway, I don't know whether there are any precise numeric criteria,
but if there were I would have expected 95% of data retained and 99%
of responders accepting to be fairly high criteria and ones that we
have surpassed already, so as far as I'm concerned 1st April could
just have easily been 1st January.

Ed





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[OSM-talk] Idle thought time, PBF and JOSM

2011-12-21 Thread john whelan

Since JOSM can now read PBF files could JOSM request the area of the map to
be downloaded to be in PBF format?

It would lower the bandwidth requirements.

I think it could still return any edits or additions in OSM format but I
think more bandwidth is consumed downloading than adding a couple of street
names in an upload.

Cheerio John
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Re: [OSM-talk] Idle thought time, PBF and JOSM

2011-12-21 Thread Mike Dupont

I think that is a great idea!
is that not why google developed PBF so you can use it for streaming?
mike

On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 7:09 PM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 Since JOSM can now read PBF files could JOSM request the area of the map to
 be downloaded to be in PBF format?

 It would lower the bandwidth requirements.

 I think it could still return any edits or additions in OSM format but I
 think more bandwidth is consumed downloading than adding a couple of street
 names in an upload.

 Cheerio John

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[OSM-talk] US Golf Courses from GNIS

2011-12-21 Thread Golf Geek


After reviewing the Import/Guidelines wiki,  I realize I did not properly 
communicate about a data import I did, so here's a quick 'after action report'. 
Better late than never. :)
I noticed that although USGS GNIS data had been imported into OSM in the past, 
the US golf course locations provided as GNIS Locales had not been included.
So, I added a bunch of new golf_course nodes based on this data *** but only 
where there were no existing OSM golf_course nodes or ways nearby ***.  
I posted more details to the imports mailing list if you are interested.
I think the new nodes will be a valuable addition to OSM (although I am sure 
they are not perfect), and I think they  will be a good starting point for 
further manual edits.
Thanks.   
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Re: [OSM-talk] Splitting a way may completely hide a taint

2011-12-21 Thread Nathan Edgars II


On 12/21/2011 8:01 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:

Sounds like a policy decision to me - you can either be too cautious or
too careful but probably never do it exactly right.
And we really need to know how the OSMF is treating these common cases 
before we start the process of minimizing damage.


 Policies should be discussed on legal-talk.
Why? They have nothing to do with legal considerations.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Idle thought time, PBF and JOSM

2011-12-21 Thread john whelan

So continuing idle thoughts, two servers, the first set up to handle PFB
only, looks at its own local cached database which would be tiled in PFB
format with a tag to say either dirty or clean. If clean it would serve up
the data as pre-compressed PBF tiles if dirty it would pass through the
request to the main server and flip back either OSM or PBF depending on the
resources available.

If your copy of JOSM has the plugin you point it at the PBF server for
downloads if not the conventional OSM server. All uploads would go to the
conventional OSM server other than a mark this tile dirty cache marker. It
might need a line or two of coding in in JOSM to handle this.

Marking something dirty is a way of handling cached databases. If you
change something in the original database you set a dirty tag so you know
you have to recache it in slow time.

I'd probably do the tiles based on the number of nodes and it basically
becomes a cost matter where you draw the line.

The nice thing about throwing out ideas is you don't have to make them work.

Cheerio John

On 21 December 2011 17:52, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

Hi,

On 12/21/2011 07:09 PM, john whelan wrote:

I think it could still return any edits or additions in OSM format but I
think more bandwidth is consumed downloading than adding a couple of
street names in an upload.

It could potentially be done via standard HTTP format negotiation, i.e.
client sends to server I can accept PBF, server then, if implemented,
replies with PBF document rather than XML. It would have to be implemented
in Matt's cgimap program (no use to implement it in Rails I'd guess - if
someone chooses to install a rails port without cgimap then everything is
still usable, just he won't have PBF replies).

A possible disadvantage (that would have to be investigated) is the
allegedly high memory usage of PBF writers. That could be a show stopper
for our production environment.

Bye
Frederik

--
Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09 E008°23'33

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Re: [OSM-talk] Idle thought time, PBF and JOSM

2011-12-21 Thread Mike Dupont

you could also use a different base user or api/pfb or something.
api.openstreetmap.org/pbf/

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 2:52 AM, john whelan jwhelan0...@gmail.com wrote:
 So continuing idle thoughts, two servers, the first set up to handle PFB
 only, looks at its own local cached database which would be tiled in PFB
 format with a tag to say either dirty or clean.  If clean it would serve up
 the data as pre-compressed PBF tiles if dirty it would pass through the
 request to the main server and flip back either OSM or PBF depending on the
 resources available.

 If your copy of JOSM has the plugin you point it at the PBF server for
 downloads if not the conventional OSM server.  All uploads would go to the
 conventional OSM server other than a mark this tile dirty cache marker.  It
 might need a line or two of coding in in JOSM to handle this.

 Marking something dirty is a way of handling cached databases.  If you
 change something in the original database you set a dirty tag so you know
 you have to recache it in slow time.

 I'd probably do the tiles based on the number of nodes and it basically
 becomes a cost matter where you draw the line.

 The nice thing about throwing out ideas is you don't have to make them work.

 Cheerio John

 On 21 December 2011 17:52, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Hi,


 On 12/21/2011 07:09 PM, john whelan wrote:

 I think it could still return any edits or additions in OSM format but I
 think more bandwidth is consumed downloading than adding a couple of
 street names in an upload.


 It could potentially be done via standard HTTP format negotiation, i.e.
 client sends to server I can accept PBF, server then, if implemented,
 replies with PBF document rather than XML. It would have to be implemented
 in Matt's cgimap program (no use to implement it in Rails I'd guess - if
 someone chooses to install a rails port without cgimap then everything is
 still usable, just he won't have PBF replies).

 A possible disadvantage (that would have to be investigated) is the
 allegedly high memory usage of PBF writers. That could be a show stopper for
 our production environment.

 Bye
 Frederik

 --
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Re: [OSM-talk] Splitting a way may completely hide a taint

2011-12-21 Thread Toby Murray

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:13 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:
Oh, and, could we convince r_coastlines to accept the license? I've
put a LOT of work into fixing the coastlines (which were utter CRAP in
the first place), and I'm unenthusiastic about having them
lost. OSMInspector is reporting the wrong thing, by the way. Look at
http://osm.mapki.com/history/way.php?id=3753612 and you'll see a bunch
of nodes, only two supposedly touched by me. Yet if you click on any
node, say
http://osm.mapki.com/history/node.php?id=1867 or
http://osm.mapki.com/history/node.php?id=1870 you'll see that I've
touched them.

When displaying a way, mapki.com only shows changes that affect the
way version. This includes node addition/removal but not moving
existing nodes. I brought this up with Ian on IRC and the way it
works, it really isn't practical to do deep node inspection as part of
the way history.

Basically, the only thing left out of r_coastline's creation is
source=PGS which by now any sourcing has been completely
eliminated. I've edited A LOTTA LOTTA coastlines of New York State in
a similar manner.

Easiest fix is for r_coastlines to accept.

The second easiest is to make use of the odbl=clean tag that the OSM
inspector allows. Assuming of course that this tag will also be
respected in the final process on April 1. This needs an answer
from... someone. (LWG?) Of course you would only want to do this if
you can vouch for your edits having removed any usefulness of previous
editors. In this instance it certainly sounds like this would be the
case. I have similar ways along the interstates in Kansas on which I
will be using this.

This is documented here:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Remapping/License_Change_View_on_OSM_Inspector#Per-object_Overrides_with_odbl.3Dclean

Toby

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Re: [OSM-talk] Splitting a way may completely hide a taint

2011-12-21 Thread Toby Murray

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 12:33 AM, Russ Nelson nel...@crynwr.com wrote:
 Russ Nelson writes:
   Easiest fix is for r_coastlines to accept.

 Wait a second ... there is no such user. What's going on here?

The changeset doesn't show any user name. I'm guessing this means it
is an anonymous user?
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/136354

Perhaps these changesets can be overridden via this mechanism?
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WTFE

Toby

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[talk-au] Strained relations

2011-12-21 Thread Nick Hocking

Hi,

Whilst replacing tainted data with good data (in areas that I have
personally surveyed), I'm
sure that I have broken some relations.

So firstly, apologies to the guy/s in Canberra that have done some
magnificant work with
relations here.

I have been attempting to fix any relations that I have broken, but I'm not
too good (yet)
at them and so have probably messed them up a bit.

Once all our roads are secure I will spend the time needed to fix all the
relations properly.

Nick
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Re: [talk-au] Strained relations

2011-12-21 Thread Nick Hocking

Alex wrote

The data.gov.au ODbL re-licencing means we could reimport the ACT bus
route relations from:

Thanks Alex,  yes that's a bit of a relief.  I'll still try to fix them as
I break then since it's good practice
but I guess we should import them periodically anyway to remain current.

Nick
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[talk-au] Remapping Sydney's railways

2011-12-21 Thread Ben Johnson

Just a heads up... I've started remapping Sydney's railway lines,  
given about 80% of them are marked to be wiped.


I am a CityRail train driver and regularly travel over most of these  
train lines and have intimate knowledge of them - including track  
direction, electrification details, location of points, names of  
tracks and sidings, speeds, etc.. and I also do a lot of GPS traces  
while driving trains.  I don't mind undertaking this task, and once  
complete I'll add the passenger route relations.


At this stage I'll stick with what I know best - i.e. the Sydney  
suburban area bounded by Berowra, Bondi Junction, Cronulla, Waterfall,  
Macarthur, Emu Plains and Richmond. My focus will be on the actual  
train tracks first.


Thought I'd let the community know, so that others may concentrate  
their efforts on remapping other priority stuff - and I guess it makes  
sense to start with things you know the most about.


I just want to add, that I think the original v1 creator of Sydney's  
railways (JohnSmith) had done a fantastic job, and I had shown a few  
people at RailCorp who were very impressed with the level of detail -  
so I want it on record that I take no pleasure in having to delete and  
remap his fantastic work, but I guess it's time to bunker down because  
it just has to be done.


Cheers,
BJ


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Re: [talk-au] Remapping Sydney's railways

2011-12-21 Thread Ian Sergeant

On 22 December 2011 15:16, Ben Johnson tangarar...@gmail.com wrote:

 I just want to add, that I think the original v1 creator of Sydney's
 railways (JohnSmith) had done a fantastic job, and I had shown a few people
 at RailCorp who were very impressed with the level of detail - so I want it
 on record that I take no pleasure in having to delete and remap his
 fantastic work, but I guess it's time to bunker down because it just has to
 be done.


No doubt.

However, for the record, all of Sydney's railways were largely mapped
before JohnSmith.

I'm confident there would be substantial history there that could be
recovered for most rail lines and stations prior to his involvement if
required (although the degree to which it was compliant would still have to
be determined).

Regardless, I'm sure your remapping will be superior.

Ian.
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Re: [talk-au] Remapping Sydney's railways

2011-12-21 Thread Nick Hocking

Ian Wrote  Regardless, I'm sure your remapping will be superior.


Absolutely agree  - on the ground mapping from someone in the business is
as good as it can get. It will always be spot on accurate and also
up-to-date.

I'd remap Canberra Railway station except that they are going to shove it
out
to Fyshwick  (I'll map in out there).

Nick
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Re: [talk-au] Strained relations

2011-12-21 Thread Peter Watson

If the Relation was set up by a contributor who has disagreed what happens?
I assume it would need to be removed. I don't know how to tell who put in a
relation.
Peter W34
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Re: [Talk-br] Dados dos Correios são públicos?

2011-12-21 Thread Jose Carlos Medeiros

Arlete,

Se for apenas para comparação acho que no site você consegue, faz a
pesquisa por rua, pega o bairro e depois pesquisa por bairro, assim aparece
todas as ruas do bairro e os ceps.
Claro, vai dar trabalho, pois você tem que pegar todos os bairros.

A base dos correios não é um arquivo só, tem um monte de tabelas. Eu deixei
num banco MySql, onde posso fazer as queries.
Se você quiser eu pego só dessa região e envio em excel, acho que não deve
ficar tão grande.

[]'s
José Carlos


Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 21:14, Arlete Meneguette 
arletemenegue...@gmail.com escreveu:

 Oi,  José Carlos
 Eu gostaria de fazer um teste com a base antiga dos Correios,
 comparando com a base que produzi para minha área de estudo em
 Presidente Prudente.
 Como posso ter acesso a ela ?
 Arlete

 Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 17:14, Jose Carlos Medeiros
 j...@psabs.com.br escreveu:
  Oi Vitor,
 
  É, eu ja tinha lido este Wiki, eu uso a tag addr:postcode. Minha dúvida
  era quanto a restrições e tal, pois tem algumas ruas que não tem CEP na
  placa.
  Posso utilizar do site mesmo, não?
 
  De qualquer forma, antigamente a base não era paga e eu tenho uma cópia
  desta base antiga.
 
 
  []'s
  José Carlos
 
 
  Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 16:53, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com
 escreveu:
 
  Oi José Carlos,
 
  Como você gostaria de utilizar-los?
 
  Você pode adicionar tags de CEP em vias, sem problemas, usando a tag
  addr:postcode.
 
  Veja como mapear endereços
  aqui: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address
 
  Agora, se você quer ter a base de dados completa de CEPs do Brasil, é
  necessário comprar-la dos correios.
 
 
 
 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91
 
  Tem muita gente que vende estes dados on-line, completos ou por meio de
  API, mas em teoria isto é ilegal.
 
  Eu não concordo muito com os Correios venderem a base de CEP, porque
  afinal estes dados são públicos, coletados e mantidos com dinheiro
 público e
  devem prestar um serviço à sociedade.
 
  Na Inglaterra existiu o Free The Postcode
  (http://www.freethepostcode.org/). Era um projeto de mapear
 coletivamente o
  CEP de lá, mas no final o IBGE deles, que cuida do Código Postal,
 liberou a
  base completamente.
 
  Abraços,
  Vitor
 
 
 
  2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br
 
  Ola Pessoal,
 
  Gostaria de saber se os dados dos Correios, como rua, bairro e CEP
 podem
  ser utilizados?
 
 
  []s
  Jose Carlos
 
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Re: [Talk-br] Dados dos Correios são públicos?

Oi, José Carlos

O CEP da UNESP em Presidente Prudente é 19060900.

Entrei em
http://www.buscacep.correios.com.br/servicos/dnec/consultaEnderecoAction.do
e resultou em
LogradouroBairro Localidade UF CEP
Universidade Estadual Paulista - Campus PresVila Santa
Helena Presidente Prudente SP 19060-900

Como trata-se de um CEP Especial há um detalhamento:
Cliente:Universidade Estadual Paulista - Campus Presidente Prudente
Endereço: Rua Roberto Simonsen, 305
Bairro: Vila Santa Helena
Localidade / UF:Presidente Prudente/SP
CEP:19060-900

Fazendo a busca no Google Maps por Rua Roberto Simonsen, 305 -
Presidente Prudente/SP
o marcador aparece dois quarteirões antes do local correto.
O engraçado é que se eu digitar 505 ao invés de 305 o marcador é
mostrado no local certo.

No OpenStreetMap vc pode verificar o local em
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-22.12212lon=-51.40702zoom=16layers=M
ou diretamente na imagem
http://c.tile.openstreetmap.org/16/23409/36898.png

Eu comecei a mapear a área mas minha dificuldade é que a imagem de
satélite tem muitas nuvens. Por esse motivo, em 2010, eu passei a
mapear no Google Map Maker.

Mas eu quero voltar para o OSM e pensei que uma solução seria importar
meus arquivos vetoriais georreferenciados ou mesmo dados públicos.
Envio em anexo um KML mostrando os limites do nosso campus, mas eu
preciso dos dados do entorno também.

Por favor, verifique a possibilidade de me fornecer os dados dos
Correios para eu ver se realmente seriam úteis, antes que eu faça um
investimento na base paga que pode até não atender as minhas
necessidades.

Grata.

Arlete

Em 21 de dezembro de 2011 08:44, Jose Carlos Medeiros
j...@psabs.com.br escreveu:
Arlete,

Se for apenas para comparação acho que no site você consegue, faz a pesquisa
por rua, pega o bairro e depois pesquisa por bairro, assim aparece todas as
ruas do bairro e os ceps.
Claro, vai dar trabalho, pois você tem que pegar todos os bairros.

A base dos correios não é um arquivo só, tem um monte de tabelas. Eu deixei
num banco MySql, onde posso fazer as queries.
Se você quiser eu pego só dessa região e envio em excel, acho que não deve
ficar tão grande.

[]'s
José Carlos

Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 21:14, Arlete Meneguette
arletemenegue...@gmail.com escreveu:

Oi, José Carlos
Eu gostaria de fazer um teste com a base antiga dos Correios,
comparando com a base que produzi para minha área de estudo em
Presidente Prudente.
Como posso ter acesso a ela ?
Arlete

Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 17:14, Jose Carlos Medeiros
j...@psabs.com.br escreveu:
Oi Vitor,

É, eu ja tinha lido este Wiki, eu uso a tag addr:postcode. Minha
dúvida
era quanto a restrições e tal, pois tem algumas ruas que não tem CEP na
placa.
Posso utilizar do site mesmo, não?

De qualquer forma, antigamente a base não era paga e eu tenho uma cópia
desta base antiga.

[]'s
José Carlos

Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 16:53, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com
escreveu:

Oi José Carlos,

Como você gostaria de utilizar-los?

Você pode adicionar tags de CEP em vias, sem problemas, usando a tag
addr:postcode.

Veja como mapear endereços
aqui: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address

Agora, se você quer ter a base de dados completa de CEPs do Brasil, é
necessário comprar-la dos correios.

http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

Tem muita gente que vende estes dados on-line, completos ou por meio de
API, mas em teoria isto é ilegal.

Eu não concordo muito com os Correios venderem a base de CEP, porque
afinal estes dados são públicos, coletados e mantidos com dinheiro
público e
devem prestar um serviço à sociedade.

Na Inglaterra existiu o Free The Postcode
(http://www.freethepostcode.org/). Era um projeto de mapear
coletivamente o
CEP de lá, mas no final o IBGE deles, que cuida do Código Postal,
liberou a
base completamente.

Abraços,
Vitor

2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

Ola Pessoal,

Gostaria de saber se os dados dos Correios, como rua, bairro e CEP
podem
ser utilizados?

[]s
Jose Carlos

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Re: [Talk-br] Dados dos Correios são públicos?

2011-12-21 Thread Arlindo Pereira

Independentemente da cobrança ou gratuidade, tem que ver a questão da
licença dos dados. Não temos uma lei como a estadunidense, que determina
que dados produzidos por órgãos públicos são necessariamente de domínio
público salvo disposições contrárias.

[]s
On Dec 20, 2011 5:32 PM, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oi José Carlos,

 Não vejo problema, afinal, o que é protegido é a base completa dos
 Correios.

 Abraços

 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Oi Vitor,

 É, eu ja tinha lido este Wiki, eu uso a tag addr:postcode. Minha dúvida
 era quanto a restrições e tal, pois tem algumas ruas que não tem CEP na
 placa.
 Posso utilizar do site mesmo, não?

 De qualquer forma, antigamente a base não era paga e eu tenho uma cópia
 desta base antiga.


 []'s
 José Carlos


 Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 16:53, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com escreveu:

  Oi José Carlos,

 Como você gostaria de utilizar-los?

 Você pode adicionar tags de CEP em vias, sem problemas, usando a tag
 addr:postcode.

 Veja como mapear endereços aqui:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address

 Agora, se você quer ter a base de dados completa de CEPs do Brasil, é
 necessário comprar-la dos correios.


 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

 Tem muita gente que vende estes dados on-line, completos ou por meio de
 API, mas em teoria isto é ilegal.

 Eu não concordo muito com os Correios venderem a base de CEP, porque
 afinal estes dados são públicos, coletados e mantidos com dinheiro público
 e devem prestar um serviço à sociedade.

 Na Inglaterra existiu o Free The Postcode (
 http://www.freethepostcode.org/). Era um projeto de mapear
 coletivamente o CEP de lá, mas no final o IBGE deles, que cuida do Código
 Postal, liberou a base completamente.

 Abraços,
 Vitor



 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Ola Pessoal,

 Gostaria de saber se os dados dos Correios, como rua, bairro e CEP
 podem ser utilizados?


 []s
 Jose Carlos

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Re: [Talk-br] Dados dos Correios são públicos?

2011-12-21 Thread Diogo W Nunes

Ter a base antiga não quer dizer que você pode importar estes dados à base
do OSM. É melhor tirar as dúvidas com os Correios, sobre qual a licensa de
uso destes dados, senão teremos de fazer reversão depois.

Da última vez que verifiquei, o uso DO SITE era somente para uso pessoal,
para consulta de CEPs para preenchimento de cartas e afins. Com relação à
base, deve também ter algum tipo de restrição.

Diogo

On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oi José Carlos,

 Não vejo problema, afinal, o que é protegido é a base completa dos
 Correios.

 Abraços


 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Oi Vitor,

 É, eu ja tinha lido este Wiki, eu uso a tag addr:postcode. Minha dúvida
 era quanto a restrições e tal, pois tem algumas ruas que não tem CEP na
 placa.
 Posso utilizar do site mesmo, não?

 De qualquer forma, antigamente a base não era paga e eu tenho uma cópia
 desta base antiga.


 []'s
 José Carlos


 Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 16:53, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com escreveu:

  Oi José Carlos,

 Como você gostaria de utilizar-los?

 Você pode adicionar tags de CEP em vias, sem problemas, usando a tag
 addr:postcode.

 Veja como mapear endereços aqui:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address

 Agora, se você quer ter a base de dados completa de CEPs do Brasil, é
 necessário comprar-la dos correios.


 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

 Tem muita gente que vende estes dados on-line, completos ou por meio de
 API, mas em teoria isto é ilegal.

 Eu não concordo muito com os Correios venderem a base de CEP, porque
 afinal estes dados são públicos, coletados e mantidos com dinheiro público
 e devem prestar um serviço à sociedade.

 Na Inglaterra existiu o Free The Postcode (
 http://www.freethepostcode.org/). Era um projeto de mapear
 coletivamente o CEP de lá, mas no final o IBGE deles, que cuida do Código
 Postal, liberou a base completamente.

 Abraços,
 Vitor



 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Ola Pessoal,

 Gostaria de saber se os dados dos Correios, como rua, bairro e CEP
 podem ser utilizados?


 []s
 Jose Carlos

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 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br



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Re: [Talk-br] Dados dos Correios são públicos?

2011-12-21 Thread Jose Carlos Medeiros

Diogo,

A base antiga não sei se tinha alguma licença, mas pode ser que seja igual
a que existe hoje.
Esta base agora chama DNE e dei uma olhada na licença, é bem restritiva e
certamente não poderemos utilizar. Mais informações neste link:
http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

Bom, fica uma dúvida, como podemos pegar os CEP?
Eu sei o meu, pois esta no meu IPTU e recebo cartas, neste caso posso
colocar meu CEP no OSM, correto?

Vale olhar nas placas e perguntar para moradores?


[]'s
José Carlos


Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 18:17, Diogo W Nunes diogownu...@gmail.comescreveu:

 Ter a base antiga não quer dizer que você pode importar estes dados à base
 do OSM. É melhor tirar as dúvidas com os Correios, sobre qual a licensa de
 uso destes dados, senão teremos de fazer reversão depois.

 Da última vez que verifiquei, o uso DO SITE era somente para uso pessoal,
 para consulta de CEPs para preenchimento de cartas e afins. Com relação à
 base, deve também ter algum tipo de restrição.

  Diogo


 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oi José Carlos,

 Não vejo problema, afinal, o que é protegido é a base completa dos
 Correios.

 Abraços


 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Oi Vitor,

 É, eu ja tinha lido este Wiki, eu uso a tag addr:postcode. Minha
 dúvida era quanto a restrições e tal, pois tem algumas ruas que não tem CEP
 na placa.
 Posso utilizar do site mesmo, não?

 De qualquer forma, antigamente a base não era paga e eu tenho uma cópia
 desta base antiga.


 []'s
 José Carlos


 Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 16:53, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.comescreveu:

  Oi José Carlos,

 Como você gostaria de utilizar-los?

 Você pode adicionar tags de CEP em vias, sem problemas, usando a tag
 addr:postcode.

 Veja como mapear endereços aqui:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address

 Agora, se você quer ter a base de dados completa de CEPs do Brasil, é
 necessário comprar-la dos correios.


 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

 Tem muita gente que vende estes dados on-line, completos ou por meio de
 API, mas em teoria isto é ilegal.

 Eu não concordo muito com os Correios venderem a base de CEP, porque
 afinal estes dados são públicos, coletados e mantidos com dinheiro público
 e devem prestar um serviço à sociedade.

 Na Inglaterra existiu o Free The Postcode (
 http://www.freethepostcode.org/). Era um projeto de mapear
 coletivamente o CEP de lá, mas no final o IBGE deles, que cuida do Código
 Postal, liberou a base completamente.

 Abraços,
 Vitor



 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Ola Pessoal,

 Gostaria de saber se os dados dos Correios, como rua, bairro e CEP
 podem ser utilizados?


 []s
 Jose Carlos

 ___
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 Talk-br@openstreetmap.org
 http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-br



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Re: [Talk-br] Dados dos Correios são públicos?

José Carlos
O CEP da Unesp em Prudente é especial (19060-900) e portanto é válido
para todos os prédios.
Não há nomes nas vias internas ao campus e todas as correspondências
são centralizadas na Seção de Comunicações.
Se alguma pessoa faz a busca no Google Maps pelo endereço  (R. Roberto
Simonsen, 305) aparece o CEP 19060-080 e  o marcador é mostrado no
local incorreto. Se faz a busca pelo CEP 19060-080 o marcador é
mostrado em outro local incorreto.
O meu CEP é 19060-100, sou vizinha da Unesp, minha rua tem dois
quarteirões e o CEP é válido para  a rua inteira. Ao fazer a busca no
Google Maps pelo CEP o marcador aparece no meio do logradouro. Eu
gostaria de saber qual é o número inicial e o final de cada trecho de
logradouro da base dos Correios para verificar como aprimorar o
processo de interpolação.
O mesmo ocorre com todos os outros endereços, seja a busca feita pelo
CEP ou pelo nome do logradouro e número da edificação.
Alguém da lista já encontrou uma solução, seja por ajuste ou remapeamento ?
Arlete


Em 21 de dezembro de 2011 19:20, Jose Carlos Medeiros
j...@psabs.com.br escreveu:
 Arlete,

 Não entendi bem como os CEPs poderiam te ajudar?
 Cada rua no campus tem um cep distinto?

 No outro email, e pesquisando mais a fundo, vi que se utilizarmos os dados
 da base dos Correios, estaremos infringindo a licença deles, pois a base é
 paga.
 Conforme link:
 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

 Mais informações sobre o funcionamento dos CEPs e também fala da restrição
 da base.
 http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sistema_de_endere%C3%A7amento_postal_no_Brasil

 Pesquisando, encontrei o projeto Base de dados brasileiros, mas ele parece
 que nem saiu do lugar, entrei em contato com o Adm e estou aguardando.
 http://sourceforge.net/projects/bdbrasil/

 Outro projeto que entrei em contato e estou aguardando resposta é o
 ceplivre, questionei sobre a licença desta base e se poderíamos utilizar.
 http://ceplivre.com.br/

 Fora isso, vi em alguns foruns, que o IBGE tinha uma tabela, que talvez
 tivesse estes dados, mas não encontrei nada.
 Vocês tem contato com o IBGE para checar?


 []'s
 José Carlos


 Em 21 de dezembro de 2011 10:34, Arlete Meneguette
 arletemenegue...@gmail.com escreveu:

 Oi, José Carlos

 O CEP da UNESP em Presidente Prudente é 19060900.

 Entrei em
 http://www.buscacep.correios.com.br/servicos/dnec/consultaEnderecoAction.do
 e resultou em
 Logradouro        Bairro          Localidade      UF      CEP
 Universidade Estadual Paulista - Campus Pres    Vila Santa
 Helena  Presidente Prudente     SP      19060-900

 Como trata-se de um CEP Especial há um detalhamento:
 Cliente:        Universidade Estadual Paulista - Campus Presidente
 Prudente
 Endereço:       Rua Roberto Simonsen, 305
 Bairro: Vila Santa Helena
 Localidade / UF:        Presidente Prudente/SP
 CEP:    19060-900

 Fazendo a busca no Google Maps por Rua Roberto Simonsen, 305 -
 Presidente Prudente/SP
 o marcador aparece dois quarteirões antes do local correto.
 O engraçado é que se eu digitar 505 ao invés de 305 o marcador é
 mostrado no local certo.

 No OpenStreetMap vc pode verificar o local  em
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-22.12212lon=-51.40702zoom=16layers=M
 ou diretamente na imagem
 http://c.tile.openstreetmap.org/16/23409/36898.png

 Eu comecei a mapear a área mas minha dificuldade é que a imagem de
 satélite tem muitas nuvens. Por esse motivo, em 2010, eu passei a
 mapear no Google Map Maker.

 Mas eu quero voltar para o OSM e pensei que uma solução seria importar
 meus arquivos vetoriais georreferenciados ou mesmo dados públicos.
 Envio em anexo um KML mostrando os limites do nosso campus, mas eu
 preciso dos dados do entorno também.

 Por favor, verifique a possibilidade de me fornecer os dados dos
 Correios para eu ver se realmente seriam úteis, antes que eu faça um
 investimento na base paga que pode até não atender as minhas
 necessidades.

 Grata.

 Arlete



 Em 21 de dezembro de 2011 08:44, Jose Carlos Medeiros
 j...@psabs.com.br escreveu:
  Arlete,
 
  Se for apenas para comparação acho que no site você consegue, faz a
  pesquisa
  por rua, pega o bairro e depois pesquisa por bairro, assim aparece todas
  as
  ruas do bairro e os ceps.
  Claro, vai dar trabalho, pois você tem que pegar todos os bairros.
 
  A base dos correios não é um arquivo só, tem um monte de tabelas. Eu
  deixei
  num banco MySql, onde posso fazer as queries.
  Se você quiser eu pego só dessa região e envio em excel, acho que não
  deve
  ficar tão grande.
 
  []'s
  José Carlos
 
 
  Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 21:14, Arlete Meneguette
  arletemenegue...@gmail.com escreveu:
 
  Oi,  José Carlos
  Eu gostaria de fazer um teste com a base antiga dos Correios,
  comparando com a base que produzi para minha área de estudo em
  Presidente Prudente.
  Como posso ter acesso a ela ?
  Arlete
 
  Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 17:14, Jose Carlos Medeiros
  j...@psabs.com.br escreveu:
   Oi

Re: [Talk-br] [ABEC-SP] DADOS SOBRE POPULAÇÃO / SETORES CENSITÁRIOS / CENSO 2010

José Carlos
Veja se estas informações são úteis pra vc.
Arlete


--- Mensagem Original 
Assunto: Re: [ABEC-SP] DADOS SOBRE POPULAÇÃO / SETORES CENSITÁRIOS / CENSO
2010
De:      Silvana Camboim silvanacamb...@gmail.com
Data:    Ter, Julho 26, 2011 3:24 pm
Para:    abec...@yahoogrupos.com.br
         jefmart...@gmail.com
--

Boa tarde, Jefferson:

Meu nome é Silvana Camboim, sou engenheira cartógrafa e trabalho no
IBGE/CETE. Você pode baixar as tabelas aqui:

ftp://ftp.ibge.gov.br/Censos/Censo_Demografico_2010/Sinopse/Agregados_por_Setores_Censitarios/

Aí é só fazer um Join entre a tabela no Excel e os shapes que vc já baixou,
pela coluna que contém o código do setor.

Att,

Silvana

Em 26 de julho de 2011 14:07, Jefferson Martins
jefmart...@gmail.comescreveu:

 **


 Boa tarde a todos!

 Alguém sabe como faço para obter dados sobre população por setor censitário
 junto ao IBGE?
 Caso esses dados já estejam em um formato shp seria excelente.
 Consegui fazer download dos setores censitários do último censo, mas eles
 não trazem esse tipo de informação.
 Acredito que haja como, só não encontrei o caminho ainda.
 No desenvolvimento dos SIGs dos aeroportos aqui na INFRAERO, surgiu-nos a
 necessidade de verificar a população abrangida por cada curva de ruído
 (curvas de ruído são curvas isofônicas por faixas de decibéis que
determinam
 o tipo de implantação e uso do solo que pode ser feito no entorno dos
 aeroportos). Daí a importância de eu conseguir determinar a população
 abrangida.

 Obrigado.

 --
 Jefferson Luís Ferreira Martins
 jefmart...@gmail.com




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Re: [Talk-br] Dados dos Correios são públicos?

2011-12-21 Thread Arlindo Pereira

Segundo a legislação brasileira, sem licença = copyright restritivo
escroto = NÃO pode importar no OSM.

[]s

2011/12/21 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br:
 Diogo,

 A base antiga não sei se tinha alguma licença, mas pode ser que seja igual a
 que existe hoje.
 Esta base agora chama DNE e dei uma olhada na licença, é bem restritiva e
 certamente não poderemos utilizar. Mais informações neste link:
 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

 Bom, fica uma dúvida, como podemos pegar os CEP?
 Eu sei o meu, pois esta no meu IPTU e recebo cartas, neste caso posso
 colocar meu CEP no OSM, correto?

 Vale olhar nas placas e perguntar para moradores?


 []'s
 José Carlos


 Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 18:17, Diogo W Nunes diogownu...@gmail.com
 escreveu:

 Ter a base antiga não quer dizer que você pode importar estes dados à base
 do OSM. É melhor tirar as dúvidas com os Correios, sobre qual a licensa de
 uso destes dados, senão teremos de fazer reversão depois.

 Da última vez que verifiquei, o uso DO SITE era somente para uso pessoal,
 para consulta de CEPs para preenchimento de cartas e afins. Com relação à
 base, deve também ter algum tipo de restrição.

 Diogo


 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oi José Carlos,

 Não vejo problema, afinal, o que é protegido é a base completa dos
 Correios.

 Abraços


 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Oi Vitor,

 É, eu ja tinha lido este Wiki, eu uso a tag addr:postcode. Minha
 dúvida era quanto a restrições e tal, pois tem algumas ruas que não tem CEP
 na placa.
 Posso utilizar do site mesmo, não?

 De qualquer forma, antigamente a base não era paga e eu tenho uma cópia
 desta base antiga.


 []'s
 José Carlos


 Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 16:53, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com
 escreveu:

 Oi José Carlos,

 Como você gostaria de utilizar-los?

 Você pode adicionar tags de CEP em vias, sem problemas, usando a tag
 addr:postcode.

 Veja como mapear endereços
 aqui: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address

 Agora, se você quer ter a base de dados completa de CEPs do Brasil, é
 necessário comprar-la dos correios.


 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

 Tem muita gente que vende estes dados on-line, completos ou por meio de
 API, mas em teoria isto é ilegal.

 Eu não concordo muito com os Correios venderem a base de CEP, porque
 afinal estes dados são públicos, coletados e mantidos com dinheiro 
 público e
 devem prestar um serviço à sociedade.

 Na Inglaterra existiu o Free The Postcode
 (http://www.freethepostcode.org/). Era um projeto de mapear coletivamente 
 o
 CEP de lá, mas no final o IBGE deles, que cuida do Código Postal, liberou 
 a
 base completamente.

 Abraços,
 Vitor



 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Ola Pessoal,

 Gostaria de saber se os dados dos Correios, como rua, bairro e CEP
 podem ser utilizados?


 []s
 Jose Carlos

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Re: [Talk-br] Dados dos Correios são públicos?

Arlindo
Concordo com vc, não podemos importar os dados dos Correios no OSM.
Mas quais são as bases oficiais que podemos importar e que nos
forneçam o detalhamento necessário e confiável ?
Os dados do Censo 2010 do IBGE estão disponíveis em formato SHP em
LatLong Sirgas2000.
Mas o máximo de detalhe que já consegui foi ao nível do setor censitário:
https://sites.google.com/site/arletemeneguette/kml/SP-Presidente_Prudente.kml?attredirects=0d=1
Arlete

Em 21 de dezembro de 2011 20:54, Arlindo Pereira
openstreet...@arlindopereira.com escreveu:
 Segundo a legislação brasileira, sem licença = copyright restritivo
 escroto = NÃO pode importar no OSM.

 []s

 2011/12/21 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br:
 Diogo,

 A base antiga não sei se tinha alguma licença, mas pode ser que seja igual a
 que existe hoje.
 Esta base agora chama DNE e dei uma olhada na licença, é bem restritiva e
 certamente não poderemos utilizar. Mais informações neste link:
 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

 Bom, fica uma dúvida, como podemos pegar os CEP?
 Eu sei o meu, pois esta no meu IPTU e recebo cartas, neste caso posso
 colocar meu CEP no OSM, correto?

 Vale olhar nas placas e perguntar para moradores?


 []'s
 José Carlos


 Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 18:17, Diogo W Nunes diogownu...@gmail.com
 escreveu:

 Ter a base antiga não quer dizer que você pode importar estes dados à base
 do OSM. É melhor tirar as dúvidas com os Correios, sobre qual a licensa de
 uso destes dados, senão teremos de fazer reversão depois.

 Da última vez que verifiquei, o uso DO SITE era somente para uso pessoal,
 para consulta de CEPs para preenchimento de cartas e afins. Com relação à
 base, deve também ter algum tipo de restrição.

 Diogo


 On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 5:31 PM, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com wrote:

 Oi José Carlos,

 Não vejo problema, afinal, o que é protegido é a base completa dos
 Correios.

 Abraços


 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Oi Vitor,

 É, eu ja tinha lido este Wiki, eu uso a tag addr:postcode. Minha
 dúvida era quanto a restrições e tal, pois tem algumas ruas que não tem 
 CEP
 na placa.
 Posso utilizar do site mesmo, não?

 De qualquer forma, antigamente a base não era paga e eu tenho uma cópia
 desta base antiga.


 []'s
 José Carlos


 Em 20 de dezembro de 2011 16:53, vitor vitor.geo...@gmail.com
 escreveu:

 Oi José Carlos,

 Como você gostaria de utilizar-los?

 Você pode adicionar tags de CEP em vias, sem problemas, usando a tag
 addr:postcode.

 Veja como mapear endereços
 aqui: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address

 Agora, se você quer ter a base de dados completa de CEPs do Brasil, é
 necessário comprar-la dos correios.


 http://www.correios.com.br/produtosaz/produto.cfm?id=5A62B08B-BCDF-F196-9C2C56EBD38EAC91

 Tem muita gente que vende estes dados on-line, completos ou por meio de
 API, mas em teoria isto é ilegal.

 Eu não concordo muito com os Correios venderem a base de CEP, porque
 afinal estes dados são públicos, coletados e mantidos com dinheiro 
 público e
 devem prestar um serviço à sociedade.

 Na Inglaterra existiu o Free The Postcode
 (http://www.freethepostcode.org/). Era um projeto de mapear 
 coletivamente o
 CEP de lá, mas no final o IBGE deles, que cuida do Código Postal, 
 liberou a
 base completamente.

 Abraços,
 Vitor



 2011/12/20 Jose Carlos Medeiros j...@psabs.com.br

 Ola Pessoal,

 Gostaria de saber se os dados dos Correios, como rua, bairro e CEP
 podem ser utilizados?


 []s
 Jose Carlos

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Re: [Talk-de] Sinnhaftigkeit Oxomoa-Schema

2011-12-21 Thread Wolfgang

Hallo,
Am Dienstag, 20. Dezember 2011 07:34:48 schrieb Andre Joost:
 Am 19.12.2011 18:07, schrieb Bartosz Fabianowski:

 
  Noch erschließt sich nicht jedem der Sinn darin, alle
  Varianten zu mappen. Aber ich für meinen Teil plädiere dennoch
  dafür, es zu tun. Wir schaffen mit OSM Daten und ermöglichen damit
  das Entstehen spannender Projekte die darauf aufbauen.
 
 Und ich bin dagegen. Wenn jede Linie 50 Varianten hat, kleben an
 einem Straßenstück einige hundert Relationen (es gibt ja nicht nur
 Buslinien). Da traut sich dann keiner mehr, wirklich notwendige
 Änderungen am Straßennetz vorzunehmen, oder er verstümmelt die
 angelegte Relationen, oder löscht sie bei nicht verstandener
 Konfliktlösung. Dann war *deine* Arbeit für die Katz.
 
 Deshalb favorisiere ich eine Relation je Richtung, damit man nicht
 zwischen forward und backward unterscheiden muß, und relativ einfach
 die Vollständigkeit der Relation üerprüfen kann.
 
Was spricht dagegen, die Relationen so aufzuteilen, dass es für jede 
befahrene Linie für jede Richtung genau eine Relation gibt?

In Hamburg ist die S1 so gemappt. Ein Ast geht von Ohlsdorf zum 
Flughafen, einer nach Poppenbüttel und einer durch die Stadt nach Wedel. 
Macht 3 Relationen pro Richtung, die sich nicht überlappen. Denkbar 
wären auch 2 Relationen (z.B. Poppenbüttel-Wedel und Ohlsdorf-
Flughafen). 

Damit wird jeder Weg wie bisher mit genau einer Relation pro Richtung 
belastet (und nicht mit 50), alle Abschnitte sind drin, und wie der 
Bus/Zug/WasAuchImmer der Strecke folgt und welche Kombination überhaupt 
und wann gefahren wird, muss man sowieso dem Fahrplan entnehmen.

Andererseits kann man eine aus dem Fahrplan bekannte Fahrt anhand der 
Haltestellen-Reihenfolge problemlos grafisch darstellen.

Gruß, Wolfgang
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Re: [Talk-de] Rechtlich bedenkliche Grenzen in Berlin

2011-12-21 Thread g0ldfish

Ich hatte den Betreffenden auch auf verschiedenen Wegen versucht zu 
kontaktieren und habe dann begonnen, die als Duplikate importierten
rechtlich 
zweifelhaften Grenzen zu löschen, wenn sie mir untergekommen sind. 

Die CCby-Daten sind soweit ich weiß noch nicht importiert, hier steht noch 
die Klärung wegen der Namensnennung aus.

Gruß,
g0ldfish

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Re: [Talk-de] Sinnhaftigkeit Oxomoa-Schema


Am 21.12.2011 09:18, schrieb Wolfgang:


Was spricht dagegen, die Relationen so aufzuteilen, dass es für jede
befahrene Linie für jede Richtung genau eine Relation gibt?



eigentlich nichts ;-)

Gruß,
André Joost


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Re: [Talk-de] Name für Bahnhof?

2011-12-21 Thread bkmap


Am 20.12.2011 19:20, schrieb Manuel Reimer:

Hallo,

wo wir es hier gerade von Namen haben:

Wie genau wird ein Bahnhof korrekt genannt?

Bei bahn.de nach dem Bahnhof suchen und diesen Namen übernehmen? Oder
gibt es dann Lizenzprobleme?


Bei Bahnhöfen würde ich den Namen nehmen der am Schild steht. Zusätzlich 
uic_ref=*.


Für Bushaltestellen sieht es schon anders aus. Wenn die Fahrplanansicht 
bei http://openptmap.org funktionieren soll (dort wird zu 
http://mobile.bahn.de verlinkt), dann sollte Name oder mindestens der 
ref_name=Haltestelle,ort so wie bei bahn.de angegeben werden.
Ich würde das mal als Bildungsvorschrift für den ref_name 
interpretieren. Man muss ja dabei nicht abschreiben.


Gruß Burkhard


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Re: [Talk-de] Sinnhaftigkeit Oxomoa-Schema

2011-12-21 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer

Am 21. Dezember 2011 09:18 schrieb Wolfgang wolfg...@ivkasogis.de:
 Was spricht dagegen, die Relationen so aufzuteilen, dass es für jede
 befahrene Linie für jede Richtung genau eine Relation gibt?
 Damit wird jeder Weg wie bisher mit genau einer Relation pro Richtung
 belastet (und nicht mit 50), alle Abschnitte sind drin, und wie der
 Bus/Zug/WasAuchImmer der Strecke folgt und welche Kombination überhaupt
 und wann gefahren wird, muss man sowieso dem Fahrplan entnehmen.


evtl. könnte man da für bestimmte Fälle einen tag haben der sagt: das
ist die Hauptroute, und das ist eine seltene Variante (z.B. Sonntags,
oder in Schulferien). Damit hätte man zwar auch schon wieder ein
bisschen Fahrplan mit drin, aber wenn eine Route fast immer befahren
wird, und die anderen zwanzigmal seltener, ist diese Information m.E.
schon interessant (man könnte seltene Varianten bzw. die übliche
Strecke als solche hervorheben).

Gruß Martin

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Re: [Talk-de] Sinnhaftigkeit Oxomoa-Schema


Am 21.12.2011 13:18, schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:

Am 21. Dezember 2011 09:18 schrieb Wolfgangwolfg...@ivkasogis.de:

Was spricht dagegen, die Relationen so aufzuteilen, dass es für jede
befahrene Linie für jede Richtung genau eine Relation gibt?
Damit wird jeder Weg wie bisher mit genau einer Relation pro Richtung
belastet (und nicht mit 50), alle Abschnitte sind drin, und wie der
Bus/Zug/WasAuchImmer der Strecke folgt und welche Kombination überhaupt
und wann gefahren wird, muss man sowieso dem Fahrplan entnehmen.



evtl. könnte man da für bestimmte Fälle einen tag haben der sagt: das
ist die Hauptroute, und das ist eine seltene Variante



Ich würde das über die Rolle in der route_master-Relation kennzeichnen.

Gruß,
André Joost




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Re: [Talk-de] Sinnhaftigkeit Oxomoa-Schema

2011-12-21 Thread Bartosz Fabianowski


Für mich gibt es hier zwei Fragen die sich stellen:

1. Frage an jeden persönlich: Bis zu welchem Detailgrad möchte ich 
Varianten abbilden?


2. Allgemeine Frage an die Gemeinschaft: Wenn jemand jede Variante als 
separate Relation mappen möchte, ist das in Ordnung oder schadet er dem 
Gesamtprojekt damit?


Ich bastle selbst genug an ÖPNV-Karten daß ich detaillierte 
Informationen zu schätzen weiß. Für mich persönlich beantworte ich Frage 
1 daher mit ja.


Frage 2 läuft auf einen Punkt hinaus der bei OSM immer wieder aufkommt: 
Was für Daten sollten besser außerhalb von OSM verwaltet werden als 
innerhalb? Wo ist die Grenze zu ziehen? Bei Fahrplänen sind wir uns ja 
alle einig - die haben in OSM nichts verloren. Ist die Abbildung jeder 
einzelnen Variante dann ein Schritt zu weit in Richtung Fahrpläne? 
Schaffen wir damit nur eine Kopie von Informationen die extern 
autoritativ vorliegen, die wir kaum aktuell halten können und besser bei 
Bedarf referenzieren sollten als sie nach OSM zu übertragen?


Ich habe mir diese Frage lange durch den Kopf gehen lassen und komme 
doch immer wieder zu dem Schluß daß die Abbildung aller Varianten als 
separate Relationen (so denn ein Mapper persönlich Zeit und Lust dazu 
hat) einen Gewinn für die Gemeinschaft darstellt. Ja, Du hast Recht daß 
sich mit Hilfe eines Routingalgorithmus eine plausible Route erstellen 
läßt. Aber hier gibt es unmittelbar zwei Probleme:


* Die plausible Route muß nicht auch die tatsächliche, richtige sein. 
Wir wollen ja mit OSM Informationen richtig abbilden. Eine solche 
automatisch berechnete Route stellt damit einen Startpunkt dar den wir 
dann innerhalb der Gemeinschaft verfeinern können. Das ist für mich 
analog zu Straßen oder Gebäuden die wir Luftbildern entnehmen können. 
Wir haben einen sehr guten Startpunkt, können dann aber darauf aufbauend 
die Informationen verfeinern und korrigieren.


* Einen weiteren sehr wichtigen Punkt sehe ich darin daß die 
Informationen, nach Varianten aufgegliedert, in einer vorgekauten 
Version vorliegen. Wenn jemand eine interessante Anwendung hat die 
einzelne Varianten referenzieren oder abbilden möchte muß er dann eben 
nicht einen Routingalgorithmus implementieren oder zwangsweise Fahrpläne 
konsultieren. Diese Arbeit braucht nur einmal gemacht zu werden um die 
einzelnen Varianten abzubilden. Anschließend stehen sie in sehr einfach 
zu verarbeitender Form der gesamten Gemeinschaft zur Verfügung.


Die Sache erinnert mich insgesamt sehr an den Fragenkomplex rund um TMC. 
Auch hier wird immer wieder diskutiert was in OSM gehört und was sich 
jeder bei Bedarf selbst zusammenstellen und errechnen kann. Ich denke 
daß wir bei den ÖPNV-Anwendungen von OSM wirklich kurz vor dem 
Durchbruch stehen, daß hier echt viel passiert und viele interessante 
Anwendungen entstehen. Ich für mich stecke gerne mehr Aufwand in die 
Datenerfassung um damit die ÖPNV-Daten so einfach verwendbar zu machen 
wie möglich.


Gruß,
- Bartosz

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[Talk-de] Meer ist falsch - coastline

2011-12-21 Thread Markus


Wer kann helfen und das korrigieren:

Hier führen Strassen mitten durchs Meer,
aber da müsste eigentlich eine Insel sein:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?zoom=15lat=12.04063lon=92.99033

Die richtige Ansicht ist in z=13 zu sehen.
Der Fehler taucht nur in z=14..18 auf.

Die Ursache finde ich nicht...

Gruss, Markus

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Re: [Talk-de] Meer ist falsch - coastline

2011-12-21 Thread Bartosz Fabianowski

Da war an den Daten etwas falsch, scheint aber bereits behoben zu sein. 
Ich habe testweise per /dirty einige Tiles neu rendern lassen - die 
sehen richtig aus, bei allen Zoomstufen.


Gruß,
- Bartosz

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Re: [Talk-de] Meer ist falsch - coastline

2011-12-21 Thread Georg Feddern


Moin,

Am 21.12.2011 16:36, schrieb Markus:

Hier führen Strassen mitten durchs Meer,
aber da müsste eigentlich eine Insel sein:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?zoom=15lat=12.04063lon=92.99033

Die richtige Ansicht ist in z=13 zu sehen.
Der Fehler taucht nur in z=14..18 auf.


die Daten sind wohl OK, aber der Renderer braucht wohl einen Schubs, die 
Kacheln sind ziemlich alt.

Nach einigen Schubsern waren die angeschubsten Kacheln ok.

Also entweder warten oder weiter schubsen ...

Gruß
Georg

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[Talk-de] [WISY-Spam]Fwd: OSM2GEO - Converting OSM files as GeoJSON

2011-12-21 Thread Jan Tappenbeck


Hi !

nachfolgendes Posting habe ich gerade in der [OSM-Dev] gefunden - 
vielleicht interessiert es einen von den Web-Bastlern.


Gruß Jan .-)


Hello Fellow OSMers,

I have been playing with OSM data for quite sometime and found Polymaps
a really good library for rendering maps in SVG. It had really good
support for GeoJSON, but OSM had no simple way of using GeoJSON format
available. So I built this for people like me who wish to draw some SVG
Maps and manipulate things rather than Static images and overlays.

Here is my post about it and code FTW :) -
http://www.arunmozhi.in/2011/11/osm2geo/

The code is a written in JavaScript. It contains a single function,
osm2geo. It takes in a .osm (XML) response and returns the corresponding
GeoJSON. It depends entirely on jQuery. Use it and let me know if you
like it :)

Make some great maps :)

--
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Re: [Talk-de] Neue OpenStreetMap Deutschland Webseite ist online!

2011-12-21 Thread Walter Nordmann

Wie lange dauert das Rendern auf openstreetmap.de?

Mein Eindruck tendiert zu es wird garnicht gerendert - und das seit Wochen
Könnte man da bitte mal etwas näheres erfahren?

Gruss
Walter

-
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sehen, dass da kein Wald ist.
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Re: [Talk-de] Neue OpenStreetMap Deutschland Webseite ist online!

2011-12-21 Thread Frederik Ramm


Hi,

On 12/21/2011 09:38 PM, Walter Nordmann wrote:

Wie lange dauert das Rendern auf openstreetmap.de?


http://munin.openstreetmap.de/mercator/mercator.html#Tirex

- die aeltesten Tiles sind 600 Stunden alt.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [Talk-de] Sinnhaftigkeit Oxomoa-Schema


Am 21.12.2011 15:12, schrieb Bartosz Fabianowski:


* Einen weiteren sehr wichtigen Punkt sehe ich darin daß die
Informationen, nach Varianten aufgegliedert, in einer vorgekauten
Version vorliegen. Wenn jemand eine interessante Anwendung hat die
einzelne Varianten referenzieren oder abbilden möchte muß er dann eben
nicht einen Routingalgorithmus implementieren oder zwangsweise Fahrpläne
konsultieren. Diese Arbeit braucht nur einmal gemacht zu werden um die
einzelnen Varianten abzubilden. Anschließend stehen sie in sehr einfach
zu verarbeitender Form der gesamten Gemeinschaft zur Verfügung.



Schön wärs.
Die Realität bei OSM sieht nun mal so aus, dass du vor jeder ernsthaften 
Nutzung der Daten erst mal prüfen, musst, ob da nicht irgendein 
Schlaumeier wieder alles mögliche umgetaggt oder gelöscht hat.


Und dann baust du dir lieber eine lokale DB oder Tileserver, weil du 
irgendwann die Nase voll hast vom *ständigen* Hinterherputzen an den von 
dir selbst eingetragenen Daten.


Deswegen bin ich dafür, dei Daten so einfach wie möglich zu halten, und 
soviel wie möglich dem Preprozessor zu überlassen.


Gruß,
André Joost



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Re: [Talk-de] Neue OpenStreetMap Deutschland Webseite ist online!


Am 22.12.2011 00:03, schrieb Frederik Ramm:

Hi,

On 12/21/2011 09:38 PM, Walter Nordmann wrote:

Wie lange dauert das Rendern auf openstreetmap.de?


http://munin.openstreetmap.de/mercator/mercator.html#Tirex

- die aeltesten Tiles sind 600 Stunden alt.



klappt den bei euch auch die /dirty-Methode, oder kann man da nicht 
selber nachhelfen?


Gruß,
André Joost




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Re: [Talk-it] RICHIESTA: traduzione siti OSM

2011-12-21 Thread sabas88

Il giorno 20 dicembre 2011 23:05, Simone Cortesi sim...@cortesi.com ha
scritto:

 Ciao,
 mi chiedono (OSMF) se c'e' qualcuno che abbia interesse nel tradurre i
 post di http://blog.osmfoundation.org/ in lingua italiana.

 gia' altri, in altri stati, stanno traducendo in alcune lingue
 straniere a partire dall'inglese.

 è una buona opportunita' per raggiungere piu' persone di linqua italiana.

 se c'e' qualcuno interessato a tradurre, si metta in contatto con me.

 Grazie,
 Simone.


Se sono sempre di quella lunghezza qualcosa a tempo perso riesco a farla
pure io. :)

Ciao,
Stefano
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Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM Inspector

2011-12-21 Thread Alberto Nogaro

-Original Message-
From: totera [mailto:g...@hotmail.it]
Sent: domenica 18 dicembre 2011 13:33
To: talk-it@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-it] Fwd: [OSM-legal-talk] License Change View on OSM
Inspector

c'è poi un utente (Paolo Molaro) che è intervenuto anche in lista ed è
quindi
evidentemente a conoscenza del cambio di licenza, per cui l'ho aggiunto
alla
pagina.

Ho visto dal profilo utente che risulta ancora indeciso. 

Mi sembra di ricordare che Paolo si fosse dichiarato disponibile a
rilasciare sotto la nuova licenza tutti i changeset relativi ai suoi bot -
come quello dei confini amministrativi.  
Se si riuscisse a ricontattarlo, a o reperire una sua dichiarazione
impegnativa, credo che si possano aggiungere tali changeset alla lista dei
changeset non problematici [1], così che non si perda tempo a rimappare gli
oggetti interessati.

O forse è sufficiente sapere che sono modifiche eseguite in maniera
automatizzata, senza contributo personale, per poterli dichiarare puliti,
anche senza il suo consenso?

Agli altri 14 ho spedito un messaggio, aggiungendo sempre i loro nomi a
[1].
Uno di loro ha accettato nel giro di qualche ora, adesso speriamo bene per
gli
altri...

Ne ho aggiunti alti 15, di cui uno ha già accettato.

Per provare a fare un po di terrorismo psicologico, ho inserito nel
messaggio un permalink di inspector (zoom 13) alla zona in cui era più
attivo, per evidenziare il disastro se non accettasse ...

[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Quick_History_Service#Changeset_Overrides

Ciao,
Alberto

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Re: [Talk-it] Svuotamento di amenity= e highway=

2011-12-21 Thread David Paleino

On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:34:40 +0100, sabas88 wrote:

 Fare una proposta articolata?
 Cioè, si fa una pagina nelle Proposals che elenca il nuovo sistema di tag
 (ufficiali) in modo da poterla presentare direttamente alla prova dei fatti.

Certo.

L'unico scoglio che incontro al momento è una chiave per raggruppare tutti
quei posti in cui si mangia/beve. Mi pare assurdo fare un food=* e drink=*, e
eatdrink=* è orrendo. Non avrei neanche un termine adatto in italiano, in
realtà.

Per il resto è piuttosto semplice: culture (già proposto da Martin), education,
landuse/landcover, ... Penso che verranno naturali una volta spulciati
amenity, highway, landuse e leisure (che mi pare siano i tag più abusati).

Ciao,
David

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[Talk-it] grafico odbl free

2011-12-21 Thread Simone Cortesi

Un grafico che mostra l'andamento delle way/nodi CT-free:
http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/munin.html

-- 
-S

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[Talk-it] Movimento lento, Federparchi ed OSM

2011-12-21 Thread niubii

FYI:
http://www.movimentolento.it/it/resource/news/il-movimento-lento-nei-parchi-italiani/
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Re: [Talk-it] Svuotamento di amenity= e highway=

2011-12-21 Thread David Paleino

On Wed, 21 Dec 2011 21:13:17 +0100, David Paleino wrote:

 On Tue, 20 Dec 2011 19:34:40 +0100, sabas88 wrote:
 
  Fare una proposta articolata?
  Cioè, si fa una pagina nelle Proposals che elenca il nuovo sistema di tag
  (ufficiali) in modo da poterla presentare direttamente alla prova dei fatti.
 
 Certo.
 
 L'unico scoglio che incontro al momento è una chiave per raggruppare tutti
 quei posti in cui si mangia/beve. Mi pare assurdo fare un food=* e drink=*, e
 eatdrink=* è orrendo. Non avrei neanche un termine adatto in italiano, in
 realtà.

Ecco, ora ricordo che in chat parlavamo di catering=*. Wordreference mi dice
che catering business è attività di ristorazione, quindi secondo me
potrebbe andar bene. Ma aspetto altre proposte :)

(intanto dovrei cominciare una pagina wiki)

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Re: [Talk-co] Resumen de Talk-co, Vol 41, Envío 17

2011-12-21 Thread Aquilino Torres

Buenos días:

Con el FunCube, un software y un PC, se puede recibir los satélites NOAA.
Este sirve además para decepcionar múltiples satélites, que en nuestro caso
no estamos interesado.
Otra opción es un radio de VHF, que recepcione alrededor de 137.600 khz, una
antena autoconstruida http://www.fediea.org/digiclub/antenaQFH.html, un
software y un PC; este es un poco didáctico, pienso que es mas económico.
Inclusive puede ser solo recepción, no se necesita que transmita.
Otra opción es comprar este receptor semi-profesional con antena y todo, es
un poco costoso http://www.wesacom.de/e_apt06.htm, pero en gusto no hay
disgustos.

Aquilino Torres


--
-Mensaje original-
De: talk-co-requ...@openstreetmap.org
[mailto:talk-co-requ...@openstreetmap.org] 
Enviado el: Miércoles, 21 de Diciembre de 2011 07:00 a.m.
Para: talk-co@openstreetmap.org
Asunto: Resumen de Talk-co, Vol 41, Envío 17

Envíe los mensajes para la lista Talk-co a
talk-co@openstreetmap.org

Para subscribirse o anular su subscripción a través de la WEB
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Puede contactar con el responsable de la lista escribiendo a:
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Si responde a algún contenido de este mensaje, por favor, edite la linea del
asunto (subject) para que el texto sea mas especifico que:
Re: Contents of Talk-co digest Además, por favor, incluya en la
respuesta sólo aquellas partes del mensaje a las que está respondiendo.


Asuntos del día:

   1. Re: Monitorear el clima ¿Qué se necesita? (Satelites NOAA)
  (Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas)


--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2011 20:22:47 -0500
From: Cristian Paul Peñaranda Rojas p...@kristianpaul.org
To: talk-co@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-co] Monitorear el clima ¿Qué se necesita?
(Satelites NOAA)
Message-ID: 20111221012247.GB2665@micro
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hola,

Basicamente se me occure a nivel de mapas, un FunCube dongle con la propia
antena omidireccional para coger los satelites NOAA y un Software que te
decodfiique esto y lo mande a la web.

Usando software libre es posible [1]

Todo en una caja con computador embedido.

Saludos

[1] http://www.funcubedongle.com/
[2]
http://www.oz9aec.net/index.php/component/search/?searchword=NOAAordering=;
searchphrase=noaa

Cristian Paul



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Fin de Resumen de Talk-co, Vol 41, Envío 17
***


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Re: [Talk-dk] Fugro 2005 billedlag nede?

2011-12-21 Thread Jens Winbladh

Virker fint her, både i JOSM og Potlatch.

/Jens

2011/12/21 Anders Lund and...@alweb.dk

 Hej,

 Jeg ville kigge på nogle skoler i mit lokalområde, men kan ikke få
 fugro2005
 billedlaget til at spille med i aften. Er det et kendt problem?

 Anders

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Re: [Talk-dk] Fugro 2005 billedlag nede?

2011-12-21 Thread Anders Lund

On Onsdag den 21. december 2011, Jens Winbladh wrote:
 Virker fint her, både i JOSM og Potlatch.

Tak, det er måske et lokalt problem af en eller anden slags. Jeg kan kun få 
billeder på et lavt zoomlevel, så jeg kan ikke fx tegne bygninger ind efter 
det. Det gælder både josm og vistnok potlatch som jeg dog ikke er gode venner 
med.

-- 
Anders

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Re: [Talk-gb-midanglia] Licence Change

2011-12-21 Thread Richard Moss





On 21 December 2011 at 14:21 Malcolm Scott m...@lcolm.org.uk wrote:

 At 14:14 today, Richard Moss wrote:

  If you can't be bothered with any of this and have given up with OSM, an
  alternative would be for you to give me your account. I don't particularly
  want to do that, but it's an option.

 Is that really a valid option?  Giving you his account would not, I
 believe, give you the copyright to any data he has contributed and so you
 would not be in a position to legitimately relicense his data.

 (IANAL.)

 --
 Malcolm Scott
Interesting question.  I saw the idea suggested somewhere on one of the OSM
talk lists (I think) but in the morass of discussion on this subject I can't
now put my finger on it.  Perhaps give me your account and copyright of the
data would be safer wording?
 
IANAL either and to be honest, I find all this dreary discussion of the nuances
of international copyright law a complete turn-off.  The sooner we get past 1
April the better.
 
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Re: [Talk-gb-midanglia] Licence Change

2011-12-21 Thread David Earl

I did the same around Teversham/Cherry Hinton last week, and also looked 
at what I'd need to do to replace unlicensed contributions. I've written 
personally to the following:


smncrsk
Martin Green
user_4538
Roman
Robert Duncan
Dave Tracey
NickF
HendrikG
Simon Proven

of which only the last has replied (he's accepted now). A 10% success 
rate isn't terribly encouraging! I imagine this is mainly die to changed 
email addresses - some of them haven't done anything in ages. OTOH, the 
Cambridge area is generally in pretty good shape, with fairly isolated 
non-accepting users.


Martin Green has done a lot of University stuff and buildings in 
Cambridge. I will be replacing all of these anyway in the next few 
months for Project Drake, so while they look quite extensive, I'm not 
overly worried about these.


Note that user CrispinF has explicitly declined the license so if you 
find any contributions by him, they definitely need to be removed/replaced.


David

On 21/12/2011 14:14, Richard Moss wrote:

I've just started browsing the new OSM Inspector site for data that
might be lost around here http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=wtfe . At
randon, I've picked some red items near St Ives, and note they were
produced by user:Jez. I've sent the following to Jez via the OSM
messaging system:

Your OSM contributions around St Ives

Hi Jez

I don't know if you're aware, but OSM is changing the license that the
data is produced under. See
http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/We_Are_Changing_The_License .

People like you am me, who joined OSM before a certain date, have to
accept the terms of the new licence, otherwise their contributions will
be lost. They've now set a date of 1 April 2012 for the chageover.

In searching round my patch of Cambridgeshire, I've noticed that some of
the data around St Ives is yours, and that so far, you are 'undecided'
about the new licence. If you don't agree to the new terms before 1
April, your stuff will be lost, which would be a pity.

Are you aware of all this, and will you be accepting or declining the
terms? If you can't be bothered with any of this and have given up with
OSM, an alternative would be for you to give me your account. I don't
particularly want to do that, but it's an option.

Anyway, if you get this, please let me know what you think about it all.

Best wishes

Richard Moss

[end]

I don't know if it will bear fruit - suggestions for improvements on the
text please. Is anybody else around here looking at this? Would it be
worth a coordinated effort?

Richard



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Re: [Talk-es] Herramienta de fusión de los datos actuales con el catastro

2011-12-21 Thread Jaime Crespo

No lo ignores, haced caso a sergio y al pirado de jynus y no repitáis
etiquetas del multipolígono en las vías. Un jardin o una valla no es un
edificio, sino lo que hay entre el outer y el inner.

--
Jaime Crespo
El 20/12/2011 22:43, andrzej zaborowski balr...@gmail.com escribió:

 2011/12/20 sergio sevillano sergiosevillano.m...@gmail.com:
 
  El 20/12/2011, a las 13:44, Ander Pijoan escribió:
 
 
  Todavía sigue generando unos warnings en josm. El de los elementos
 lineales
  no cerrados que están llevándose el tag multipolygon estamos ya
 trabajando
  en el. Pero el que no entendemos es el de los inner.

 Comprobando en JOSM el caso de un patio con jardín no me da warnings
 del validador, pero en el caso de que el interior es tambien un
 edificio dice Style for inner way equals multipolygon.  Si que
 podría ser un error pero en este caso no es, asi que este warning en
 particular lo ignoraría.  A veces pasa con todo tipo de software de
 validación..

 Saludos

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Re: [Talk-es] Herramienta de fusión de los datos actuales con el catastro