Re: [OSM-talk-be] Osmose onjuiste "rijstroken"

[Glenn Plas]

Met de quick fix bedoelde ik dat er nog een validator warning inzit over
de rijstroken count (stukje richting NL, vlak na de kennedy tunnel) .
Ik heb die even genegeerd.

Normaal dacht ik dat osmose periodieke updates doet, je moet dus even
wachten tot de fouten eruit zijn.

De fouten die ik gefixt heb ivm met foute 'lanes' values (uit uw
originele link) zijn nu weg zo te zien:

http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/nl/errors/?country=belgium_flanders=3160


Glenn



On 18-11-15 20:47, Jakka wrote:
> Voor zij die .py kunnen ontcijferen.
> 
> https://github.com/osm-fr/osmose-backend/blob/master/plugins/Highway_Lanes.py
> 
> 
> @Glenn de fix, quick-fix moet je daar iets voor doen om dat binnen te
> halen updaten?
> 
> 
> 
>> Kheb de lanes een fix gegeven, quick-fix voor R1, die moet geaudit
>> worden, want de JOSM validator gaf ook al warnings die ik niet direct
>> kon plaatsen.
>>
>> Glenn
>>
>>
>> On 18-11-15 19:42, Glenn Plas wrote:
>>>
>>> De meeste ga je toch issue per issue moeten bekijken met kennis van de
>>> locaties, en huidige layout van de baan.  Sat foto's enkel te betrouwen
>>> als ze recent zijn en er geen werken zijn geweest ondertussen.
>>>
>>> enkele van die fouten zijn natuurlijk op te lossen.  lanes, dat kan maar
>>> 1 cijfer zijn en geen reeks.
>>>
>>> Ik kan er wel een aantal aanpassen adhv. overpass queries.
>>>
>>> Tx voor die link, ik kende hem niet, best wel een interessante
>>>
>>> Glenn
>>>
>>
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[Talk-it] Nominatim comportamento strano

[Aury88]

ciao ragazzi, 
ho un problema curioso.
Nominatim ha un comportamento strano quando faccio la ricerca di una via
correttamente segnata su osm.
alcuni tratti della strada sono questi:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/150009824
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/150009831

mettendo la stringa di ricerca "via torrente molgora, cassina de' pecchi" mi
da come unico risultato questa rotonda
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/150009845
rifacendo la ricerca, con la stessa identica stringa, dalla posizione
trovata (indifferentemente se con didascalia a sinistra, con i dati del
vecchio risultato, aperto o chiuso) mi da come unico risultato questo:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/150009822#map=19/45.51956/9.39392
rifacendo ancora la ricerca, con la stessa identica stringa, il risultato
rimane l'ultimo linkato

i due tratti di strada da me prima linkati non c'è verso di farglieli
trovare...i tag name e short_name sono però identici a quelli dei risultati
trovati e comunque il fatto che faccia vedere prima un risultato e poi
l'altro non mi sembra un comportamento normale...
riscontrate anche voi questo comportamento? cosa sto sbagliando?

Il problema si presenta in maniera diversa su OSMAnd dove invece non mi
trova proprio una "via torrente molgora" 
:-/







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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Ben Abelshausen]

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:31 AM, Andy Townsend  wrote:
>
> It's a building that is a closed way, but only just.  How can I offer to
> help that mapper do what they are trying to do better?  All the changeset
> comment says is "#MissingMaps #hotosm-project-1254 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
> #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek " - to me the only useful information in there is
> "Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)", which I already know since that is exactly where
> this edit is.
>

That's why I suggested to put more of a description in the comment.

What I mean is that, compared to most of the changesets out there, this is
pretty good but that things can always be better and there is room for
improvement without changing too much the way this works now.


> More importantly, how do I contact the person who told this new mapper
> that "#MissingMaps #hotosm-project-1254 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
> #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek" was a suitable changeset comment, to explain to
> them what we use changeset comments for and what makes a good one?  If I
> can talk to them, I can probably help them help other new users too, and
> not just with stuff about changeset comments - as an OSM mapper think of
> all the "how to interpret imagery" latent knowledge that you have simply by
> being able to compare a place you visited with the imagery of that place.
>

We could even add the url of the task as a changeset tag. And yes the
tasking manager won't be online forever but changesets also become less
usefull the older they get.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-11-19 8:56 GMT+01:00 Andrea Lattmann :

> Ciao, hai provato K9-mail? Ti semplifica la vita :-)



è meno una questione del mail client che della netiquette.
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette#Le_regole_importanti

ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Mancata attribuzione

[Aury88]

Alessandro wrote
> OT: vi prego, quando rispondete alle mail quotate solo il necessario.
>   Quando si leggono sullo smartphone quote di quote lunghissimi non si 
> capisce nulla ;-)

si, scusatemi, purtroppo ho fatto un errore nel chiudere un quote ed è
finita parte della mia risposta dentro un quote e quello a cui rispondevo
dentro un quote di quote...me ne sono accorto troppo tardi ad invio
lanciato. teoricamente la parte che volevo quotare è molto breve e non ci
sarebbero dovuti essere quote di quote, ma solo quote della risposta di
Luca.
io la mailing list la leggo da nabble.com;
tramite lettore mail non mi ci sono mai trovato bene...la lettura tramite
smartphone non ne parliamo :-P
scusate  ancora.




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Re: [Talk-it] R: Re: mapathon Politecnico di Milano +CNR per HOT e MissingMaps

[Aury88]

scusami alessandro e a tutti quelli interessati al mapathon, ho scoperto che
le indicazioni che ho dato precedentemente sul luogo dell'incontro non sono
precise

qui le indicazioni:
https://maps.polimi.it/maps/infocadmanagement/controller/Aula.do?evn_REPORTAULA=evento_id_srv=590=https%3A%2F%2Faunicalogin.polimi.it%2Faunicalogin%2Faunicalogin.jsp%3Fid_servizio%3D590%26mode%3Dlogout%26__pj0%3D0%26__pj1%3D240834d5277614bc670a4ad87255378f=IT_device_category=PERSONAL_COMPUTER=IT_aula=57&__pj0=0&__pj1=fd675f3c01f80ad5f107cbec67a25a0d

se il link non dovesse funzionare grosso modo l'aula è qui:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=45.47727=9.22751#map=19/45.47727/9.22751

ci sono dei lavori in corso in piazza leonardo per cui gli ingressi
all'edificio da me indicati non sono forse i più comodi da raggiungere.
c'è un ingresso  che da direttamente sulle strade esterne l'università
grosso modo qui:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=45.47706=9.22752#map=19/45.47706/9.22752

un saluto, spero di incontrarvi questa sera



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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Michael Reichert]

Hi,



Am 19. November 2015 01:52:40 MEZ, schrieb john whelan :
> HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a simpler
> more
> standardized approach.  

HOT uses the OSM database/platform and therefore it has to adapt and follow 
OSM's rules. Nobody forces you to use OSM. Why don't you do something like 
OpenHistoricalMap and use your own database basrd on OSM software?

> HOT tends to map in areas that do not have a great deal of OSM mapping
> already in place so I don't see that it really matters if they use
> preset
> comments from the tile system.  The HOT comment gives you the task and
> tile
> number so you can look up on the tile system where it is and also what
> has
> been asked for.

A mapper should be able to get an idea what has been edited at a given 
changeset without decrypting the changeset comment using an external service 
(HOT tasking manager in this case). Who guarantees that HOT tasking manager 
will still be online in 5 or 10 years?

Best regards

Michael
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] question regarding produced work

[Simon Poole]

? there are 4 responses to your mail, at least one with a question that
you haven't answered .

Am 19.11.2015 um 08:51 schrieb Lars-Daniel Weber:
> Three days are gone and still no discussion about this topic.
> I think, nobody is really interested in discovering license violations and 
> penalize the violators.
>
> Why do we have ODbL at all, if all we do is to discuss about the license 
> itself or tell guys to write the correct attributation?
>
> ODbL is more than an attribuation on a website!
>
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[Talk-cz] Smazat rozcestnik z old.openstreetmap.cz

[Miroslav Suchy]

Je možné nějak smazat rozcestník z old.o.cz?
Konkrétně
  http://old.openstreetmap.cz/img/guidepost/marianskeudoli_bo238.jpg
Byl přeložen a je už vyfocen a nahrán na nové poloze, takže tento starý může 
být smazán.

Nebo ideálně, kdyby šli připisovat poznámky k rozcestníkům a napsat tam že byl 
k nějakému datu přeložen.

BTW počítám že počet fotek teď dost narůstá. Kolik to zabírá dat? Nebude 
problém s místem na disku v nějaké dohledné době?

Mirek

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Re: [Talk-de] Flughafen in Carto

[Holger Jeromin]

Markus wrote on 18.11.2015 20:40:

 Aerodrome=* ist noch nicht in der Renderingdatenbank. 
> Das wäre doch schon mal ein erster Schritt?!
> Alles was "international" ist --> z=8
> Alles andere --> z=11

Ist nicht inder Rederingdatenbank heißt: Für die Karte aktuell nicht
nutzbar. Soll sich aber "really soon now" ändern :-)

Der dazu gehörige Issue ist
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1504

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Stand au Capitole du Libre 2015

[Hélène PETIT]

Le 18/11/2015 16:40, Laurent Combe a écrit :


ok je me suis inscrit pour le samedi après-midi

c'est une excellente solution de repli et permettre de partager un peu
de temps entre contributeurs OSM
en fonction de l'assistance je pourrai si ça s'y prête parler du projet BANO


Oui, parmi les gens qui se sont inscrits, plusieurs seront probablement 
très intéressés.

c'est une super idée, merci Laurent, j’inscris ton intervention à l'OdJ.

Hélène



si d'autres veulent venir n'hésitez pas !

Laurent


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[Talk-cz] Mapování tras KČT - stav

[Miroslav Suchy]

Hlášení průběžného stavu:

Máme pokryto resp. zkontrolováno 42% uzemí ČR. Což je super! Nicméně jedná se o 
tu jednodušší část (typicky oblasti kde
nejsou žádné trasy). Takže je jasné že teď bude další postup pomalejší.

Velká pochvala jde do Východních Čech, okolí Budějovic a Brna. To jsou velmi 
slušně pokryté oblasti.

Nicméně náročné oblasti jako jsou příhraniční hory (Krkonoše, Jeseníky, 
Beskydy) jsou téměř netknuté. Takže plánujte si
výlety, foťte rozcestníky! Některé čtverce v horách budou náročné. Zejména pro 
jednoho člověka. Klidně do čtverce
napiště např. zkontroloval jsem modrou a ostatní trasy nechte na někoho jiného.

Neobkreslujte od seznamáckých map! Jenom v okolí Brna vím o dvou místech kde 
trasa v reálu vede jinudy než ji má Seznam
zakreslenou.

Děkuji všem maperům a kdo se ještě nepřidal a chtěl by tak:
  http://taskman.poloha.net/project/2

Konec hlášení.

Mirek

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Re: [Talk-it] Diminuzione Tag totali wikipedia

[Marco_T]

La presente per segnalare che in data 16/11 e' successo qualcosa al server.
http://geodati.fmach.it/gfoss_geodata/osm/wtosm/it_IT/
Saluti.

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Jóhannes Birgir Jensson]

HOT uses the OSM database/platform and therefore it has to adapt and
follow OSM's rules. Nobody forces you to use OSM. Why don't you do
something like OpenHistoricalMap and use your own database basrd on
OSM software?


There are no rules for changeset comments. They are an optional feature, 
the number of empty comments each day is substantial yet I don't see 
them being advocated for removal.



A mapper should be able to get an idea what has been edited at a given
changeset without decrypting the changeset comment using an external
service (HOT tasking manager in this case). Who guarantees that HOT
tasking manager will still be online in 5 or 10 years?


This feature already exists on the OSM website, looking at changesets.

I have no problem with an entry in ANY language. Wolf, French etc etc. 
I probably won't understand it directly ... but I can use a web based 
translator.


No you probably will not be able to use a web based translator for the 
majority of languages. Setswana is the primary language of around 6 
million people in South Africa and Botswana (official language) and 
secondary of maybe 8 million more. There is no online translator for it. 
Those that have gotten used to Google Translate will be shocked to find 
out the number and size of many languages missing from it, nevermind the 
quality of automatic translations.


The number of hashtags in the comment might be getting a bit too much 
though!




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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 19 November 2015, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>
> #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
> #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek
>
> This is *not* useful.

But to be fair this is not only the fault of the mappers but also of the 
HOT project managers since they specifically instruct mappers to use 
such changeset comments.  

Generally the HOT project mapping instructions contain a lot of things 
that are questionable from the viewpoint of the OSM community.  IMO HOT 
needs to make sure these comply with the OSM conventions, for example 
by sourcing these instructions from the OSM wiki and allowing the OSM 
community to provide input and fixes this way.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [Talk-cz] Mapování tras KČT - stav

[Karel Volný]

...
> Neobkreslujte od seznamáckých map!

a nevymýšlejte si!

teď jsme obcházeli nějaké hrady, před Bukovinou se nám ztratila značka, tak 
jsme to vzali odhadem do míst, kde by tak hrad mohl být, fýr zichr jsem zapnul 
stroj, no a když jsme u rozcestníku před hradem shazovali batohy, podle OSM 
jsme od něj byli ještě přes čtvrt kilometru vzdušnou čarou - přitom rozcestník 
je datován 2001, čili zcela určitě nebyl přeložen až po zmapování, navíc 
logicky ani nedává smysl, aby byl na náhodné křižovatce lesních cest namísto u 
hradu

(doufám, že si večer najdu čas to opravit :-/)

(jinak Seznam má toto místo víceméně správně)

K.


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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le Calque Cadastre le retour ;-)

[lenny]

Le 18/11/2015 23:49, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :

En effet le TMS à tenu 1 jour...
Pour le moment je reprends le plugin cadastre sous JOSM
pareil ! Cela faisait tellement longtemps que j'avais oublié comment le 
plugin fonctionnait, mais j'ai vite retrouvé !!!


Bonne soirée

Le 18 novembre 2015 20:26, lenny > a écrit :


Bonsoir, problème dans JOSM avec le message d'erreur
Erreur: Problem loading tile

j'ai chargé la tuile,
chargé les tuiles avec des erreurs
chargé toutes les tuiles

cordialement
Lenny


Le 16/11/2015 22:54, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :

Pour info,
Le cadastre est de nouveau disponible (TMS)

Bonne soirée Jérôme


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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[ueliw0]

Hi

On 19/11/15 09:18, Michael Reichert wrote:

Hi,



Am 19. November 2015 01:52:40 MEZ, schrieb john whelan :

HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a simpler
more
standardized approach.

HOT uses the OSM database/platform and therefore it has to adapt and follow 
OSM's rules. Nobody forces you to use OSM. Why don't you do something like 
OpenHistoricalMap and use your own database basrd on OSM software?
Because contrary to the OpenHistoricalMap project, HOT contributors 
typically map the same features that "regular" OSM mappers and users too 
are interested in having in the main database (currently existing roads, 
buildings, rivers, medical facilities, ...). Therefore using a separate 
database would mean  a lot more (duplicate) work for both projects (and 
probably less complete and lower quality maps), so please keep the two 
projects together.


Cheers Ueli

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-11-19 4:57 GMT+01:00 Kate Chapman :

> I fail to see how machine readable hashtags are "not useful". They allow
> statistical analysis which can be used to inform future recruitment and
> other activities.



they are not very useful for other mappers who try to understand what was
done in a changeset. They aren't descriptions of what was done, hence
shouldn't go into the "description" changeset tag. As the amount and kind
of changeset tags are unlimited like the tags on map objects, there really
isn't a good reason to put these "project-hashtags" into the same category
as the human readable explanations by the mappers about their work in a
particular set of changes. Actually, using a distinct tag might even be
easier to do evaluations.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Christian Pietzsch]

>
>
> Worse, I see many HOT changesets that have source=Bing in the
> changeset comment instead of a separate tag.
>
> Although... Does iD allow setting changeset tags?


The ID Editor doesn't seem to support other changeset tags.
JOSM supports as much changeset tags as you like, but you have to know that
this is possible. I only noticed the other tabs in the upload dialog
recently. I always was focused on the "settings" tab where you just can
input the comment and the source.

I like the usage of hashtags. It enables you to do better analytics but
also has the potential to find the root of errors. We use hashtags in our
German "Wochenaufgabe"(weekly task). If a lot of people start to map things
in an uncommon way because of the weekly task it would be more easy to know
where this idea came from.
One problem I see is if you use to many hashtags and if they aren't
searchable. I hoped to find the HOT task when searching for the hastag but
it did show up int he first search entries. I think this may be fixiable.
But I agree that hashtags would find a better place in an extra tag, but
the editors have to support it and make it easily accessible.

Christian

2015-11-19 4:21 GMT+01:00 Nicolás Alvarez :

> 2015-11-18 21:11 GMT-03:00 Frederik Ramm :
> > This is *not* useful. First of all, we're not Twitter; we don't evaluate
> > these hashtags. I don't know if there are some downstream services that
> > do, but if so, please switch to using a secondary tag (remember,
> > changesets, like other OSM objects, can have any number of tags).
>
> Worse, I see many HOT changesets that have source=Bing in the
> changeset comment instead of a separate tag.
>
> Although... Does iD allow setting changeset tags?
>
> --
> Nicolás
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Paul Johnson]

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 6:52 PM, john whelan  wrote:

> Or are we now asking that all mappers on OSM have to be able to read and
> write in English since that is the normal language for communication in OSM
> or is one of the local African languages sufficient.  If it is then I
> assure you I won't be able to understand what it says.


Personally, I'd be satisified with an intelligible changeset comment in any
language, so even if I can't tell what they were thinking, and Google
Translate can't throw me a bone, presumably someone who does have an idea
of the language in question would be able to have some insight.
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Nicolás Alvarez]

El 19 nov 2015, a las 06:54, Christian Pietzsch  
escribió:

>> 
>> Worse, I see many HOT changesets that have source=Bing in the
>> changeset comment instead of a separate tag.
>> 
>> Although... Does iD allow setting changeset tags?
> 
> The ID Editor doesn't seem to support other changeset tags.
> JOSM supports as much changeset tags as you like, but you have to know that 
> this is possible. I only noticed the other tabs in the upload dialog 
> recently. I always was focused on the "settings" tab where you just can input 
> the comment and the source.

I don't think iD even has a 'source' text field.

> I like the usage of hashtags. It enables you to do better analytics but also 
> has the potential to find the root of errors. We use hashtags in our German 
> "Wochenaufgabe"(weekly task). If a lot of people start to map things in an 
> uncommon way because of the weekly task it would be more easy to know where 
> this idea came from.

Yeah, I wish the massive amount of school-adding newbies in Argentina, whose 
changesets are wrong more often than not, included a hashtag so that we could 
easily find them and clean the mess. They are coming from some sort of course 
that was never discussed with the OSM community. But considering how they can't 
communicate with us or get the students to do the basic things right 
(educational level in level=, own username in operator=, only name= but no 
amenity=school, adding school node that already existed, nodes added in a 
different continent... we have seen it all), I don't think they can get them to 
add a hashtag...

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le Calque Cadastre le retour ;-)

[Laurent Combe]

je ne vois pas trop de quoi vous parlez exactement
mais avec la dernière remarque je crois comprendre qu'il y a plus pratique
(quand ça fonctionne bien sur) que le plugin du cadastre sous JOSM

or c'est ce que j'utilise régulièrement (le plugin du cadastre)

pouvez-vous en dire un peu plus ? cela concerne-t-il JOSM ?

Laurent


Le 19 novembre 2015 10:00, lenny  a écrit :

>
>
> Le 18/11/2015 23:49, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :
>
> En effet le TMS à tenu 1 jour...
> Pour le moment je reprends le plugin cadastre sous JOSM
>
> pareil ! Cela faisait tellement longtemps que j'avais oublié comment le
> plugin fonctionnait, mais j'ai vite retrouvé !!!
>
>
> Bonne soirée
>
> Le 18 novembre 2015 20:26, lenny  a écrit :
>
>> Bonsoir, problème dans JOSM avec le message d'erreur
>> Erreur: Problem loading tile
>>
>> j'ai chargé la tuile,
>> chargé les tuiles avec des erreurs
>> chargé toutes les tuiles
>>
>> cordialement
>> Lenny
>>
>>
>> Le 16/11/2015 22:54, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :
>>
>> Pour info,
>> Le cadastre est de nouveau disponible (TMS)
>>
>> Bonne soirée Jérôme
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Ben Abelshausen]

These changesets are way more useful than most.

You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the mapping
activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who validates,
what mappers contributed and so on.

That doesn't mean things couldn't be better. Maybe moving some information
to the changeset tags may be a solution, the id of the task for example,
and the tile or some description in the comment.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best regards,

Ben Abelshausen
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Robert Banick]

HOT eases people into OSM and gives them an easily understood purpose to begin 
mapping. Some HOTties go on to be power OSMers outside of HOT; some never step 
away from HOT. Both reflect individual preferences, not any isolating tendency 
by HOT. HOT tries to build communities and encourages interaction with OSM 
within the framework of its mission. There’s a lot to improve (with limited 
resources) but we fully intend to build up OSM through our work. Mikel’s use of 
this discussion to launch a helpful github issue ticket is a good example.




As for how the humanitarian sector understands OSM: until HOT came along the 
humanitarian sector didn’t understand OSM, period. The conversations I had in 
2010-2011 and the conversations I have now with fellow humanitarians about OSM 
are light years apart in terms of technical depth and understanding of OSM’s 
workings.








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On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 10:52 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> Am 19.11.2015 um 15:53 schrieb Blake Girardot:
>> 
>> It is a ridiculous statement on its face; obviously HOT does not
>> succeed if OSM does not succeed.
> I think we fully agree and if you recheck you will see that I said
> essentially the same.
>>
>> As to the original issue Ramm raised:
>>
>> Most HOT folks who commented agreed the example changeset comments,
>> while useful, could benefit from improvement (as could the vast
>> majority changeset comments in OSM). Mikel has already opened an issue
>> in github to improve them and the issue has already been brought to
>> the people who manage HOT OSM Tasking Manager projects, how is that
>> not working with and being responsive to the larger OSM community?
> Again if you go back you will see that I couldn't quite believe that a
> shism was really being declared because it doesn't make any sense.
> On the other hand you can't deny that HOT is in some ways self defeating
> since it isolates lots of people from the whole of OSM and the nitty
> grity parts. Intentionally naturally, but it doesn't necessarily
> actually help the humanitarian sectors understanding of what OSM is and
> how it works.
>>
>> I think HOT's history demonstrates an eagerness (and outright need) to
>> work with the OSM community at every opportunity (not mistake free of
>> course).  But I can also personally point to at least 1 example where
>> HOT has reached out to OSMF and the License WG and literally been
>> ignored after repeated attempts to even discuss an issue.
> I would be interested in a reference to that. We get a large number of
> enquiries, ~ 200 this year to date, and occasionally stuff gets pushed
> back, particularly if there is no good answer (naturally you would get
> an answer pointing that out).
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Andy Robinson]

Jolly good show Fairhurst. Second that motion.
Chinner.

-Original Message-
From: Richard Fairhurst [mailto:rich...@systemed.net] 
Sent: 19 November 2015 15:02
To: talk@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about 
Changeset Comments

Blake Girardot wrote:
> As to the original issue Ramm raised:

Frederik's first name is Frederik. It's not that uncommon. :) Please can we 
avoid this becoming _really_ unnecessarily confrontational by calling people by 
their surnames in a sort of English public school style ("go it, molesworth, 
show them wot yore made of").

Richard




--
View this message in context: 
http://gis.19327.n5.nabble.com/A-message-to-our-friends-at-HOT-Peace-Corps-etc-about-Changeset-Comments-tp5860424p5860507.html
Sent from the General Discussion mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Serge Wroclawski]

Indeed, and bringing this back from a meta-discussion to the practical
matters at hand- there are extremely good reasons for human readable
changeset comments, and good (and easy) ways to approach encouraging
them.

The reasons for them are clear- to facilitate the meta-mapping
operation- the idea that OSM is not merely a static collection of
data, but an ongoing dialog.

Activity related hashtags are great ways of capturing motivation for
editing, but do not capture intent.

So encouraging comments through examples (such as the wording in the
save dialog box) or by moving hashtags to their own tag seems like a
nice way of meeting that needs.


As for inclusivity- I agree entirely, and to be inclusive, I subscribe
to the "rising tide floats all boats" model. That is by focusing on
education and examples, by providing a positive community that
encourages good behavior as much as it discourages bad behavior, we
can get the change we need- if every OSM instruction includes a bit
about the importance of changeset comments, for example.

- Serge


On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Mikel Maron  wrote:
> While it's factually correct to say that you don't have to take part in the
> community to work with OSM, I seldom see that in practice. Missing Maps and
> HOT are deeply involved in the OSM community. When we do see this gap
> between the data and community anywhere in OSM, it's a great action to take
> on, to find ways to make our community welcoming and understandable to more
> mappers. We also need to recognize that OSM is a collection of communities,
> especially along linguistic lines, and that we need to work more to
> integrate in positive ways.
>
> -Mikel
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
>
>
> On Thursday, November 19, 2015 11:44 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Am 19.11.2015 um 15:17 schrieb Paul Johnson:
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
>
> This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you didn't
> intend for your statement to come across as it just did.
>
> While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and MM,
>
>
> Not sure what MM is, but how can you be anti-OSM and be on the Humanitarian
> OSM Team?  Seems rather self-defeatist.
>
>
> MM == missingmaps, sorry.
>
> The point is that you can use OSM, the infrastructure and tools, as a
> convenient and free service for mapping without buying in to OSM the
> collaborative, community driven mapping project, the only thing which is
> really required is that you have to live with the licence as determined by
> the contributors. In the end not much different than if you were to buy such
> a service from ESRI.
>
> Now we don't really require buy in to OSM the project when people sign up,
> historically this has mainly caused issues with individuals and some times
> companies that have gone off on a tangent. But there is no doubt that a lot
> of things about OSM are "different", the rules, the structures (or rather
> the absence of them), how we technically do things and in the end getting
> community buy in to whatever you are doing, that are considered pesky
> annoyances and particularly a hindrance when you are on a mission to save
> the world.
>
> Simon
>
>
>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Mikel Maron]

"On the other hand you can't deny that HOT is in some ways self defeatingsince 
it isolates lots of people from the whole of OSM and the nitty
grity parts."
Fully denied. There are many facets to OSM, we are all, I hope, working to 
provide ways to integrate them. 
 * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 


On Thursday, November 19, 2015 12:10 PM, Simon Poole  wrote:
 
 

 
Am 19.11.2015 um 15:53 schrieb Blake Girardot:
> 
> It is a ridiculous statement on its face; obviously HOT does not
> succeed if OSM does not succeed.

I think we fully agree and if you recheck you will see that I said
essentially the same.

>
> As to the original issue Ramm raised:
>
> Most HOT folks who commented agreed the example changeset comments,
> while useful, could benefit from improvement (as could the vast
> majority changeset comments in OSM). Mikel has already opened an issue
> in github to improve them and the issue has already been brought to
> the people who manage HOT OSM Tasking Manager projects, how is that
> not working with and being responsive to the larger OSM community?

Again if you go back you will see that I couldn't quite believe that a
shism was really being declared because it doesn't make any sense.

On the other hand you can't deny that HOT is in some ways self defeating
since it isolates lots of people from the whole of OSM and the nitty
grity parts. Intentionally naturally, but it doesn't necessarily
actually help the humanitarian sectors understanding of what OSM is and
how it works.

>
> I think HOT's history demonstrates an eagerness (and outright need) to
> work with the OSM community at every opportunity (not mistake free of
> course).  But I can also personally point to at least 1 example where
> HOT has reached out to OSMF and the License WG and literally been
> ignored after repeated attempts to even discuss an issue.

I would be interested in a reference to that. We get a large number of
enquiries, ~ 200 this year to date, and occasionally stuff gets pushed
back, particularly if there is no good answer (naturally you would get
an answer pointing that out).

Simon

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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: GIS Day in Lomé and Haiti in the middle of two OSM and GIS capacity building missions

[nicolas chavent]

Hi Jo,

Thanks for your line: I was not aware of this.
We have been pretty busy today in Haiti and in Togo around the same
activities:
- mapping,
- training on QGIS/Leaflet
- preparatory work for Saturday 21-Nov 2nd African Edition of State Of The
Map in Lomé and the end of our maptrek through a mapathon.

Excellent time to you and all
Nicolas-



On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 5:18 AM, Jo Walsh  wrote:

> Remember that GIS Day is an ESRI trademark.
>
> Some of us prefer to celebrate PostGIS Day, which falls the following day.
>
> OSGeo4ever,
>
>
> zx
>
>
> On November 18, 2015 11:56:54 PM GMT, nicolas chavent <
> nicolas.chav...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> Apologies for cross-postings, I am resending from crisis mappers and hot
>> this note for those still active mapping this GIS Day 2015.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sharing a short wrap up of how the GIS Day looked like for two
>> collectives of mappers active in Lomé and Port Au Prince which might be of
>> interest.
>>
>>
>> "GIS Day" 08 PM (UTC), it's mid day in Port Au Prince (Haiti) and night
>> time in Lomé (Togo) after long and happy working hours around OSM, GIS and
>> opendata.
>>
>> In Togo at Université de Lomé UL (Lomé University UL):
>> - 50 people working all day long on QGIS with OpenStreetMap data created
>> through the first 4 days of the maptrek mivamapper (Come map Togo local
>> language) in Anfamé (Lomé) but also with data from the OCHA Core
>> Operational Datasets (COD) and Fundamental Operational Dataset (FOD)
>> accessed via the Humanitarian Responses and the HDX platforms.
>> - 20 people working half a day exploring, visualizing and retrieving
>> geodata of all sorts (openstreetmap, opendata, gray-licensed data) with the
>> IFL (Infrastructure de Données Spatiales Francophone Libre/ "Free
>> Francophone SDI"-FFS) hosted in France at AgroCampus Ouest and maintained
>> with the support of the GeOrchestra community.
>> - The same 20 spent their afternoon reinforcing their grasp on the
>> webmapping tool uMap with the same kind of data
>> - Asides of this, the same people kept mapping Anfamé and Biu cities as
>> the first targets set for the mivamapper maptrek experience started last
>> Saturday 14-November (our 8 days-long mapathon)
>> - Now that night fell over Lomé, the preparatory work for our second
>> State Of The Map Africa, the SOTMTG 2015, is intensifying.
>>
>> In Haiti at the Port Au Prince base of Haiti Communitere,
>> - a couple of Haitian experienced mappers are being taught OSM on a train
>> the trainer program
>> - The same with the ProjetEOF collective are also organizing for both
>> remote attendance of the SOTMTG 2015 and the last day of mivamapper
>> - They are also laying the ground for a mapathon that will take place
>> this 21-Nov at HC's base and will focus on Areas Of Interest for local
>> communities in Haiti
>> - Like the days before, they'll finish their days joining in Western
>> African mappers in the mivamapper maptrek.
>>
>>
>> A rich GIS day like most of our days in Haiti ([1], [2]) and in Togo
>> ([3], [4], [5]) over the past 2 weeks and likely of the coming 10 days
>> throughout those two OSM and Free GIS capacity building missions designed,
>> funded and co-implemented with the Digital Directorate of the Organisation
>> Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) and with our haitian partner Haiti
>> Communitere
>>
>>
>> Anyone interested on these initiatives and willing to join can follow
>> blogs, wiki, mailing lists from ProjetEOF and local OSM groups from Togo,
>> Niger, Mali, Burkina, Togo, Bénin and Sénégal as well as the FB and twitter
>> accounts of those groups as well as the following hashtags #ProjetEOF
>> #map4tg #mivamapper.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Nicolas
>>
>>
>> [1]:
>> http://projeteof.org/action-openstreetmap-2015-haiti-un-dispositif-dappui-technique-et-organisationnel-a-osm-en-haiti/
>> [2]:
>> http://projeteof.org/action-openstreetmap-haiti-2015-an-osm-technical-and-organizational-support-initiative-in-haiti/
>> [3]:
>> http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-3-semaines-dediees-a-la-cartographie-openstreetmap-et-a-la-geomatique-libre-qgis-et-lids-georchestra/
>> [4]:
>> http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-recit-dune-semaine-de-formation-aux-techniques-de-cartographie-openstreetmap/
>> [5]:
>> http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-mapathon-mivamapper-et-state-of-the-map-2015-togo-durant-gis-day-et-geoweek/
>>
>>
>>
> --
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>



-- 
Nicolas Chavent
Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99

Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
Skype: c_nicolas
Twitter: nicolas_chavent
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[Talk-de] Mechanischer Edit, die nur auf regionalen Listen angekündigt werden

[Michael Reichert]

Hallo,

FYI, im Forum wird gerade ein mechanischer Edit des Radwegtaggings in
Rostock diskutiert, der nur auf der örtlichen Liste angekündigt wurde.

http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=52730

Es gibt einige, die der Meinung sind, dass er revertiert gehört.

Viele Grüße

Michael

-- 
Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten
ausgenommen)
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Re: [Talk-ht] Lot Talk-ht, Vol 64, Parution 2

[sadlebenist...@yahoo.fr]

Mw salye tt mapè nan tout depatman yo espesyalman sid ak sidès kote c de zon ki 
pi maltrete . Mw kontan pou bel inisyatif sa e mw espère c pa yon denye fwa. 

Prezans mw ap enpotan pou m nan mapping sa. Mw ta renmen nou presize ki bo nap 
rankontre eske se nan HC pou moun yo vini?

Mesi anpil

Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G on AT

- Reply message -
De : talk-ht-requ...@openstreetmap.org
Pour : 
Objet : Lot Talk-ht, Vol 64, Parution 2
Date : jeu., nov. 19, 2015 07:00


Envoyez vos messages pour la liste Talk-ht à
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Pour vous (dés)abonner par le web, consultez
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ou, par email, envoyez un message avec 'help' dans le corps ou dans le
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Vous pouvez contacter l'administrateur de la liste à l'adresse
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Si vous répondez, n'oubliez pas de changer l'objet du message afin
qu'il soit plus spécifique que "Re: Contenu du digest de Talk-ht..."


Thèmes du jour :

   1. Re: Mapping Party Haiti Communitere - Samdi 21 Novanm
  (John-Carlo Sainvil)
   2. Re: Mapping Party Haiti Communitere - Samdi 21 Novanm
  (ALCE, Samuel Paul)
   3. Fwd: La "Journée du SIG" au Togo (Lomé) et à Haiti (Port
  Au Prince) au milieu de deux missions de renforcement de
  capacités en cartographie OpenStreetMap et en géomatique
  (nicolas chavent)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2015 11:51:20 -0500
From: John-Carlo Sainvil 
To: Delphine Bedu 
Cc: talk-ht@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-ht] Mapping Party Haiti Communitere - Samdi 21
Novanm
Message-ID:

[OSM-ja] お手すきの方は、ご協力いただけると幸いです。

[mitsuru kikkawa]

いつもお世話になっています。
徳島県で活動している吉川と申します。

今朝，徳島市内をBingでトレースしていたところ，
水浸しのようになってしまい，Rivertで元どおりにしようと思い，作業すると、さらに変な感じとなっていました（JOSM）
（今まで修復の経験がありますが，今回は変な感じとなってしまいました。）

変更セット：
rivert 35450646
23分前にクローズ · #35451091
徳島市 更新
約1時間前にクローズ · #35450646

さらに自分で行うと，失敗しそうなため，
お手すきの方は，元どおりにするのをご協力いただければ、幸いです。
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in, favor of relations

[stevea]

As I have been watching this thread, I've been tuning up (in small 
part, only fine tuning seems to be needed) highway route relations in 
my state thanks to resources found here: 
http://184.73.220.107/relationpages


As this host also serves maproulette, I believe it might be Martijn 
who administers "relationpages" and so I address these requests to 
him or whomever does administer them:


Might we add one more column of "unsigned_ref" next to the "ref" 
column?  This would help reduce some confusion re highway relations 
in any given state, especially as we can sort columns by clicking on 
the arrow in a column header.  Knowing that the "unsigned_ref" tag is 
part of a route relation allows certain gaps in other tags (name=*, 
ref=*...) to be better understood and entered or corrected as 
necessary.  Thank you!


Also, not sure why, but the "gets refreshed every 4 hours based on 
latest OMS data" seems to be lagging, at least in the Name (name=* 
tag) column.  Might this be fixed so it updates as stated?  Thank you!


SteveA
California

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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] question regarding produced work

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 11/19/2015 04:04 PM, Lars-Daniel Weber wrote:
> The guidelines say that you need even to release the steps to create
> a derived database (or share the diff or share the database itself).

Yes, but the Trivial Transformations guideline[1] explains:

"We therefore define a term "trivial transformation", ... which covers
alterations of OpenStreetMap data which are not considered interesting
or useful enough to warrant the conditions of a derivative database."

If the database used by the web site in question was a derivative
database, then your above statement (release data or steps) would be
true; but if it is the result of a trivial transformation, then it is
not even a derivative database - it is the *same* database that you find
in the planet file.

You have to understand that "database" here is not meant to be "the bits
and bytes I have in my PostGIS instance" but the more abstract
"collection of data from OSM that describes the physical world". If you
transform that from EPSG:4326 to EPSG:3857 then it is still the same
database, and not a different database.

The Trivial Transformations page has a discussion item about rendering
databases that says: "A rendering database should be considered a
trivial transformation provided that it is purely created from an
algorithmic recasting of the original data with the intent to make
rendering [...] easier and faster, since no information has been added."

This also reflects my opinion, and hence I believe the maker of the
OePNV-Karte cannot be forced to reveal anything. Although I should think
that he would, if asked politely.

> So it's not done by saying: "download the raw data".
> That's against the license.

Your opinion, not that of the Trivial Transformations guideline, because
if the preprocessing is a trivial transformation, then the "raw data" is
the *same* database as the preprocessed rendering database, and no
"derived database" exists which would have to be shared.

>> You said that you have made several requests to the site operator to
>> hand over the data. Has *any* of them been a polite request where you
>> did not express your assumed entitlement to receive it ("Dear XXX could
>> I perhaps have a copy of the data"), or have they been like ("Hello XXX
>> your data is ODbL hence you must give it to me") from the start?
> 
> I've read some discussions about this on IRC. My request was about a
> small "how to get the result" as described before. 

Was your request a polite "could you share this" request or did you
choose a "you have to share this so give it to me" wording?

Bye
Frederik

[1]
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Trivial_Transformations_-_Guideline

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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[OSM-talk-fr] Dataconnexions

[Frédéric Rodrigo]

Bonjour,

Cette année encore le concours Dataconnexions met en avant des 
réutilisations de données.


https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/dataconnexions-6

Certaines de ces réutilisations sont basées ou utilisent OpenStreetMap :

https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/reuses/openlevelup/
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/reuses/opensolarmap/
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/reuses/panneaux-election-fr/
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/reuses/closely/
https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/reuses/logismap-recherche-de-logements-par-isochrones/

Vous pouvez voter pour pousser ces projets, ou d'autres, vers la finale. 
Pour cela, connecter-vous avec votre compte data.gouv.fr (à ouvrir si 
vous n'en avez pas), puis sur les ré-utilisations, cliquez sur l'étoile 
qui se trouve en bas à droite de l'image de la réutilisation.


Christian & Frédéric.


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Re: [Talk-de] S: Tipps/Kooperation "Stadtplan für Neubürger" (Openlayers?) mit Schülern

[Ralf GESELLENSETTER]

Hallo Jochen Wulfkühler,

danke für die wertvollen Tipps!

Wir testen gerade http://umaps.openstreetmap.fr - als
Online-Editor wirklich brauchbar, da auch dezentral
gearbeitet werden kann, POIs können importiert werden und
es können eigene Symbole verwendet werden.

Mit der Mehrsprachigkeit scheint es wirklich nicht
leicht zu sein, ich habe auch schon mit Jochen Topf darüber
geschrieben. Online jedenfalls.

Möglicherweise schaffen wir es, eine Karte offline zu rendern,
dann könnte man vermutlich auch internationale Begriffe
darstellen. Vermutlich werden wir das aber in die Legende
auslagern.

Danke und viele Grüße aus Bielefeld
Ralf Gesellensetter (- und übrigens: Ich dachte auf dieser Liste sind
wir alle per du...)

Am 14.11.2015 12:52, schrieb dlf_dauerh...@yahoo.de:
> Hallo Herr Gesellensetter,
> 
> 
> http://afeefa.de/ ist ein Projekt aus Dresden mit einer Sprachauswahl.
> 
> http://www.menschen-in-dresden.de/2015/afeefa-de-integrationsplattform-in-neun-sprachen-ist-frei-geschaltet/
> 
> 
> Einen Stadtplan mit Raster und Straßenverzeichnis können sie leicht mit
> http://maposmatic.org/ als druckreife pdf erstellen. Evtl. ist der
> Server aber akut down.
> 
> 
> Zur Not könnte man einen Planausschnitt auch selber rendern und mit
> Icons anreichern.
> 
> http://download.bbbike.org/osm/bbbike/Bielefeld/
> 
> http://maperitive.net/
> 
> Skalierbare svg-Datien sind reichlich im Netz zu finden:
> https://github.com/twain47/Open-SVG-Map-Icons/tree/master/svg
> 
> 
> Das Refugee Phrasebook baut sich online auf, braucht etwas Zeit.
> http://www.refugeephrasebook.de/
> 
> 
> Beste Grüße aus OWL bzw. DD
> 
> 
> Jochen Wulfkühler
> 
> 
> 
-- 
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Re: [Talk-it] Nominatim comportamento strano

[Max1234Ita]

Io ho OsmAnd~ 2.3 (la build di ieri mattina) e la mappa di Luca: via Molgora
esce regolarmente... BOH!?!?

Ho provato anch'io a dare un'occhiata con JOSM.
In effetti sembra tutto corretto; la sola anomalia (se così si può chiamare)
che ho notato è che i 2 tronconi che riporti son taggati con /layer=0/
mentre tutti gli altri pezzi (rotonde e way di accesso ad esse) non hanno
questo tag.

In teoria layer=0 non si dovrebbe mettere perchè è implicito e corrisponde
al livello "normale" del terreno: che sia la sua presenza a mandare in
qualche modo in confusione l'algoritmo di ricerca? 

Di più, non saprei cosa pensare, se non a qualche problema nel DB di
Nominatim...

Ciao,
Max






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Re: [Talk-ht] Fwd: La "Journée du SIG" au Togo (Lomé) et à Haiti (Port Au Prince) au milieu de deux missions de renforcement de capacités en cartographie OpenStreetMap et en géomatique

[Dagno louis]

felicitations les initiateurs,specialement Nicola Chavent !!!

Le 18 novembre 2015 16:33, nicolas chavent  a
écrit :

> Salut à tous et toutes,
>
> En m'excusant d'avance pour le cross-posting d'autres listes (crisis
> mappers, hot etc), je partage ce bref wrap up de ce qu'a été la Journée du
> SIG ("GIS Day") pour deux collectifs de mappers du projet OSM actifs à Lomé
> et à Port Au Prince qui peut intéresser et dynamiser celles et ceux qui
> sont encore actifs en cette Journée du SIG.
>
> Bonne lecture à vous
> Nicolas
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: nicolas chavent 
> Date: 2015-11-19 0:38 GMT+01:00
> Subject: La "Journée du SIG" au Togo (Lomé) et à Haiti (Port Au Prince) au
> milieu de deux missions de renforcement de capacités en cartographie
> OpenStreetMap et en géomatique
> To: hot-francophone 
>
>
> Salut à tous et toutes,
>
>
> En m'excusant d'avance pour le cross-posting d'autres listes (crisis
> mappers, hot etc), je partage ce bref wrap up de ce qu'a été la Journée du
> SIG ("GIS Day") pour deux collectifs de mappers du projet OSM actifs à Lomé
> et à Port Au Prince qui peut intéresser et dynamiser celles et ceux qui
> sont encore actifs en cette Journée du SIG.
>
>
> "Journée du SIG 2015 aka "GIS Day" 22h30 (UTC), c'est la fin de
> l'après-midi à Port Au Prince (Haiti) et la soiré est avancée à Lomé (Togo)
> après de longues et joyeuses heures de travail sur les projets
> OpenStreetMap, QGIS et données ouvertes (opendata).
>
> Au Togo, à l'Université de Lomé (UL) :
> - 50 personnes ont travaillé toute la journée sur le logiciel de Système
> d'Informatioin Géographique (SIG) libre QGIS avec des données OpenStreetMap
> créées à travers les 4 premiers jours du maptrek "mivamapper" (Viens mapper
> en langue locale) sur la zone inondable d'Anfamé (Lomé) ainsi qu'avec des
> données "Core Operational Datasets" (COD) and "Fundamental Operational
> Datasets" (FOD) du Bureau d'Action à l'Action Humanitaire (OCHA)
> accessibles à travers les plateformes Humanitarian Response et HDX.
> - 20 personnes ont travaillé une demi journée à explorer, visualiser et
> télécharger des données géographiques de toutes sortes (openstreetmap,
> données ouvertes/ opendata et données placées sous d'autres licenses) en
> utilisant l'IFL (Infrastructure de Données Spatiales Francophone Libre)
> hébergée à Rennes à l'AgroCampus Ouest (France) et maintenue avec le
> soutien de la communauté GeOrchestra.
> - Ces mêmes 20 individus ont passé l'après-midi à affermir leur maitrise de
> l'outil de webmapping uMap en utilisant les mêmes types de données.
> - En parallèle de ces deux ateliers, l'ensemble de ces personnes ont
> continué de cartographier à distance les villes d'Anfamé et Biu définies
> comme les premiers objectifs du maptrek "mivamapper", le mapathon de 8
> jours du ProjetEOF et des communautés locales, commencé le 14-Novembre
> dernier.
> - Avec la tombée de la nuit sur Lomé, ces activités ont cédé la place au
> travail de préparation du SOTMTG 2015, la seconde édition du State Of The
> Map Afrique.
>
> En Haiti, à la base logistique de Port Au Prince de l'association Haiti
> Communitere,
> - deux mappers expérimentés de la communauté OSM haitienne enrichissent
> leur bagage technique en cartographie OSM dans le cadre d'une approche de
> formation de formateurs.
> - Les mêmes avec le collectif d'animation ProjetEOF organisent leur
> participation à distance au SOTMTG 2015 et au dernier jour de l'expérience
> mivamapper
> - Ils sont aussi actifs à préparer ce 21 novembre la tenue sur la base
> logistique d'HC d'un mapathon centré sur des Aires d'Intérêt Areas des
> communautés locales de Port Au Prince.
> - Comme les jours précédents, ils achèveront leur journée en rejoignant les
> mappers ouest-africains du maptrek mivamapper.
>
>
> Un jour OSM et SIG plein comme l'essentiel de nos journées haîtiennes ([1],
> [2]) et togolaises ([3], [4], [5]) des deux dernières semaines et
> vraisemblablement des 10 prochains jours au cours de ces deux missions de
> renforcement de capacités OSM et géomatique libre conçues, financées et
> mises en oeuvre avec la Direction Numérique de l'Organisation
> Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) et notre partenaire haïtien Haiti
> Communitere.
>
> Toute personne intéressée par ces initiatives et désireuse de nous joindre
> peut suivre l'actualité de ces actions OSM vai les blogs, wiki, mailing
> lists du ProjetEOF et des groupes OSM locaux du Togo, du Niger, du Mali, du
> Burkina, du Togo, du Bénin et du Sénégal ainsi que lerus comptes Facebook
> et twitter via notamment les hashtags #ProjetEOF #map4tg #mivamapper et
> #sotmtg15.
>
>
> Excellente soirée à tous et toutes
> Nicolas
>
>
> [1]:
>
> http://projeteof.org/action-openstreetmap-2015-haiti-un-dispositif-dappui-technique-et-organisationnel-a-osm-en-haiti/
> [2]:
>
> 

[Talk-it] [mancata attribuzione] Cellmapper

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Se selezionate il layer Openstreetmap nella mappa [1], nessuna
attribuzione, ed i "terms of use" riportano a Google.



[1] https://www.cellmapper.net/map
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Nicolás Alvarez]

2015-11-19 7:54 GMT-03:00 Mikel Maron :
> ps For the Argentinian case, has anyone asked the local community there to
> reach out? I'm sure they would be able to help them get on the right track.

I am in the local community. It took us months to track down where
this flood of new users making single changes was coming from. We are
now making some progress in contacting the right people.

-- 
Nicolás

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Re: [Talk-cz] OsmHiCheck

[Tom Ka]

Bude, byl jsem mimo, mrknu co se kde pokazilo.
On Nov 19, 2015 7:13 AM, "Zdeněk Pražák"  wrote:

> Chtěl jsem se zeptat na projekt OsmHiCheck - od pondělí se data
> neaktualizují.
> Bude tento projekt dále fungovat?
>
>
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[Talk-in] Crowdmap Chennai flood relief locations

[Arun Ganesh]

There is an appeal to help locate all the flood relief centers by the
Chennai Corporation. Details:
https://www.facebook.com/vaishnavi.jayakumar/posts/10204872032900599

-- 
Arun Ganesh
(planemad) 

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Re: [Talk-de] Nominatim, Probleme und Merkwürdigkeiten

[Sarah Hoffmann]

Hi,

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 12:00:04PM +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> niemand?

Kurz gesagt, altbekanntes Problem. Wenn du etwas im Trac suchst, findest du
reichlich Bugreports betreffst dem Problem mit dem Weglassen von Vornamen und
Titeln in romanischen Sprachen in Nominatim.

Beste derzeitige Lösung ist die Angabe der üblichen Kurzform im short_name
Tag. Irgendwann wird Nomiantim (oder eine andere Suchmaschine) auch mal passende
Heuristiken zur Abkürzung lernen, aber das passiert nicht in naher Zukunft.

Was ihr ausserdem als Community tun könnt, ist die Liste der üblichen
Abkürzungen in http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_finder:Abbreviations
zu ergänzen. die italienische Sektion ist da gerade noch sehr knapp
gehalten. Auch die Integration dieser Liste wird noch eine Weile dauern,
aber immerhin gibt es dafür bereits einen Plan.

Gruss

Sarah

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[Talk-it] via francigena

[Dino Michelini]

  Salve a tutti da 3 mesi sto lavorando sul mapping con JOSM della
provincia di Viterbo in particolare quella che viene definita Tuscia
Romana e oggi mi sono iscritto alla mailing. Essendo un appassionato di
trekking ed avendo per tre anni collaborato con Alberto Conte [1] alla
manutenzione dei segnavia della Francigena nel tratto Viterbo - Sutri,
ho notato che nella cartografia mancano molti dei punti di interesse
(monumenti, strutture per l'accoglienza, ecc.), che sono segnalati per
ogni tappa sul sito ufficiale www.viefrancigene.org/it [2]. 

Come
sapete quest'anno è indetto un giubileo. Per esperienza, avendo
incontrato in questi anni molte persone lungo il cammino lamentano tutti
la difficoltà di orientarsi, in particolare nel tratto laziale, in
quanto capita spesso che "furbetti" modificano/cancellano i segnavia
portando le persone prive di un GPS fuori tracciato con tutti i problemi
che ne derivano: in particolare l'aumento dei km percorsi e problemi nel
pernottamento (spesso i segnavia taroccati portano presso strutture che
non offrono convenzioni per i pellegrini ma prezzi esosi).

Credo che si
potrebbero unire le nostre forze per completare la mappatura della
Francigena inserendo/aggiornando tutti i punti di interesse che il sito
www.viefrancigene.org/it [3] riporta di modo da fornire un valido
contributo a coloro che intraprenderanno il cammino. 

-- 

Dino
Michelini
   


Connetti gratis il mondo con la nuova indoona:  hai la chat, le chiamate, le 
video chiamate e persino le chiamate di gruppo.
E chiami gratis anche i numeri fissi e mobili nel mondo!
Scarica subito l’app Vai su https://www.indoona.com/

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Mikel Maron]

Hi friends
I'm mining a few actionable nuggets from this discussion.
* Document (or link to documentation) on how the OSMTM works in the wiki, 
including structure of changeset comments.* Update guidance to encourage 
mappers to add their own insights in changeset comments* Share more the 
downstream analysis of changeset comments, like http://osmgeoweek.org/metrics* 
Make the point person for an OSMTM visible and contactable for feedback.* 
Investigate potential use of other tags in the changeset
Created a GitHub ticket for working through ideas 
https://github.com/hotosm/osm-tasking-manager2/issues/703
Mikel
ps For the Argentinian case, has anyone asked the local community there to 
reach out? I'm sure they would be able to help them get on the right track. * 
Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 


On Thursday, November 19, 2015 3:43 AM, Michael Reichert  
wrote:
 
 

 Hi,



Am 19. November 2015 01:52:40 MEZ, schrieb john whelan :
> HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a simpler
> more
> standardized approach.  

HOT uses the OSM database/platform and therefore it has to adapt and follow 
OSM's rules. Nobody forces you to use OSM. Why don't you do something like 
OpenHistoricalMap and use your own database basrd on OSM software?

> HOT tends to map in areas that do not have a great deal of OSM mapping
> already in place so I don't see that it really matters if they use
> preset
> comments from the tile system.  The HOT comment gives you the task and
> tile
> number so you can look up on the tile system where it is and also what
> has
> been asked for.

A mapper should be able to get an idea what has been edited at a given 
changeset without decrypting the changeset comment using an external service 
(HOT tasking manager in this case). Who guarantees that HOT tasking manager 
will still be online in 5 or 10 years?

Best regards

Michael
-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde auf einem Smartphone verfasst, ist daher nicht 
GPG-signiert und enthält Tippfejler.
This message was been written on a smartphone. That's why it is not GPG-signed 
and may contain tyops.

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Re: [Talk-de] Nominatim, Probleme und Merkwürdigkeiten

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

niemand?

Gruß,
Martin
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Wochennotiz Nr. 278 10.11.–16.11.2015

[wnreader]

Hallo,

die Wochennotiz Nr. 278 mit allen wichtigen Neuigkeiten aus der OpenStreetMap 
Welt ist da: 

http://blog.openstreetmap.de/blog/2015/11/wochennotiz-nr-278/

Viel Spaß beim Lesen!



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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le Calque Cadastre le retour ;-)

[Jérôme Seigneuret]

Merci

Le 19 novembre 2015 12:29, Frédéric Rodrigo  a
écrit :

> C'est reparti.
>
> Le 19/11/2015 12:19, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :
>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> En fait depuis plusieurs mois il y a une couche TMS dispo dans la liste
>> des fournisseurs JOSM (dispo sous toute interface utilisant exploitant des
>> service TMS)
>>
>> Pays: FR
>> Fournisseur: Cadastre
>> Adresse Web : tms:
>> http://tms.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/*/tout/{z}/{x}/{y}.png <
>> http://tms.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/*/tout/%7Bz%7D/%7Bx%7D/%7By%7D.png>
>>
>> Ce service permet d'avoir le cadastre quelque soit les commune ce qui
>> permet d'avoir des infos sur les limites sans devoir faire plusieurs
>> services d’imagerie (WMS) par communes
>>
>> voir
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2015-February/075223.html
>>
>> Apparemment le service est insponible
>>
>> voir la carte directement ici http://tms.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/
>>
>> Jérôme
>>
>>
>> Le 19 novembre 2015 11:11, Laurent Combe  laurent.co...@free.fr>> a écrit :
>>
>> je ne vois pas trop de quoi vous parlez exactement
>> mais avec la dernière remarque je crois comprendre qu'il y a plus
>> pratique (quand ça fonctionne bien sur) que le plugin du cadastre
>> sous JOSM
>>
>> or c'est ce que j'utilise régulièrement (le plugin du cadastre)
>>
>> pouvez-vous en dire un peu plus ? cela concerne-t-il JOSM ?
>>
>> Laurent
>>
>>
>> Le 19 novembre 2015 10:00, lenny > > a écrit :
>>
>>
>>
>> Le 18/11/2015 23:49, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :
>>
>>> En effet le TMS à tenu 1 jour...
>>> Pour le moment je reprends le plugin cadastre sous JOSM
>>>
>> pareil ! Cela faisait tellement longtemps que j'avais oublié
>> comment le plugin fonctionnait, mais j'ai vite retrouvé !!!
>>
>>
>>> Bonne soirée
>>>
>>> Le 18 novembre 2015 20:26, lenny >> > a écrit :
>>>
>>> Bonsoir, problème dans JOSM avec le message d'erreur
>>> Erreur: Problem loading tile
>>>
>>> j'ai chargé la tuile,
>>> chargé les tuiles avec des erreurs
>>> chargé toutes les tuiles
>>>
>>> cordialement
>>> Lenny
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 16/11/2015 22:54, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :
>>>
 Pour info,
 Le cadastre est de nouveau disponible (TMS)

 Bonne soirée Jérôme



>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Frederik Ramm]

Hi,

On 11/19/2015 11:16 AM, Ben Abelshausen wrote:
> You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the
> mapping activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who
> validates, what mappers contributed and so on.

I doubt that most OSMers would even know which tasking manager to go to
without first googling for it. And will the same tasking manager and the
same task ID still be there in a few years' time? Are the operators of
the tasking manager giving a promise to keep an archive about their
completed tasks available for as long as OSM exists so that people can
later find out what the mapping activity was supposed to be?

> That doesn't mean things couldn't be better. Maybe moving some
> information to the changeset tags may be a solution, the id of the task
> for example, and the tile or some description in the comment.

I'd certainly say so. Maybe this is not something that can be done
tomorrow as some processes, software, or even teaching material would
have to be adapted, but I'd certainly prefer a changeset description
that does not depend on external resources for resolving.

Bye
Frederik

-- 
Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"

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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le Calque Cadastre le retour ;-)

[Jérôme Seigneuret]

Bonjour,

En fait depuis plusieurs mois il y a une couche TMS dispo dans la liste des
fournisseurs JOSM (dispo sous toute interface utilisant exploitant des
service TMS)

Pays: FR
Fournisseur: Cadastre
Adresse Web : tms:
http://tms.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/*/tout/{z}/{x}/{y}.png

Ce service permet d'avoir le cadastre quelque soit les commune ce qui
permet d'avoir des infos sur les limites sans devoir faire plusieurs
services d’imagerie (WMS) par communes

voir
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2015-February/075223.html

Apparemment le service est insponible

voir la carte directement ici http://tms.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/

Jérôme


Le 19 novembre 2015 11:11, Laurent Combe  a écrit :

> je ne vois pas trop de quoi vous parlez exactement
> mais avec la dernière remarque je crois comprendre qu'il y a plus pratique
> (quand ça fonctionne bien sur) que le plugin du cadastre sous JOSM
>
> or c'est ce que j'utilise régulièrement (le plugin du cadastre)
>
> pouvez-vous en dire un peu plus ? cela concerne-t-il JOSM ?
>
> Laurent
>
>
> Le 19 novembre 2015 10:00, lenny  a écrit :
>
>>
>>
>> Le 18/11/2015 23:49, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :
>>
>> En effet le TMS à tenu 1 jour...
>> Pour le moment je reprends le plugin cadastre sous JOSM
>>
>> pareil ! Cela faisait tellement longtemps que j'avais oublié comment le
>> plugin fonctionnait, mais j'ai vite retrouvé !!!
>>
>>
>> Bonne soirée
>>
>> Le 18 novembre 2015 20:26, lenny  a écrit :
>>
>>> Bonsoir, problème dans JOSM avec le message d'erreur
>>> Erreur: Problem loading tile
>>>
>>> j'ai chargé la tuile,
>>> chargé les tuiles avec des erreurs
>>> chargé toutes les tuiles
>>>
>>> cordialement
>>> Lenny
>>>
>>>
>>> Le 16/11/2015 22:54, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :
>>>
>>> Pour info,
>>> Le cadastre est de nouveau disponible (TMS)
>>>
>>> Bonne soirée Jérôme
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> listTalk-fr@openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-fr
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [OSM-talk-fr] Le Calque Cadastre le retour ;-)

[Frédéric Rodrigo]

C'est reparti.

Le 19/11/2015 12:19, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :

Bonjour,

En fait depuis plusieurs mois il y a une couche TMS dispo dans la 
liste des fournisseurs JOSM (dispo sous toute interface utilisant 
exploitant des service TMS)


Pays: FR
Fournisseur: Cadastre
Adresse Web : 
tms:http://tms.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/*/tout/{z}/{x}/{y}.png 



Ce service permet d'avoir le cadastre quelque soit les commune ce qui 
permet d'avoir des infos sur les limites sans devoir faire plusieurs 
services d’imagerie (WMS) par communes


voir 
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-fr/2015-February/075223.html


Apparemment le service est insponible

voir la carte directement ici http://tms.cadastre.openstreetmap.fr/

Jérôme


Le 19 novembre 2015 11:11, Laurent Combe > a écrit :


je ne vois pas trop de quoi vous parlez exactement
mais avec la dernière remarque je crois comprendre qu'il y a plus
pratique (quand ça fonctionne bien sur) que le plugin du cadastre
sous JOSM

or c'est ce que j'utilise régulièrement (le plugin du cadastre)

pouvez-vous en dire un peu plus ? cela concerne-t-il JOSM ?

Laurent


Le 19 novembre 2015 10:00, lenny > a écrit :



Le 18/11/2015 23:49, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :

En effet le TMS à tenu 1 jour...
Pour le moment je reprends le plugin cadastre sous JOSM

pareil ! Cela faisait tellement longtemps que j'avais oublié
comment le plugin fonctionnait, mais j'ai vite retrouvé !!!



Bonne soirée

Le 18 novembre 2015 20:26, lenny > a écrit :

Bonsoir, problème dans JOSM avec le message d'erreur
Erreur: Problem loading tile

j'ai chargé la tuile,
chargé les tuiles avec des erreurs
chargé toutes les tuiles

cordialement
Lenny


Le 16/11/2015 22:54, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :

Pour info,
Le cadastre est de nouveau disponible (TMS)

Bonne soirée Jérôme





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Re: [Talk-cz] imaginarni mesto

[Lukas Novotny]

To je sice možné, ale dle toho co tam píšou, tak v brzké době jeho data
smažou, pokud neuvede ta data, která nejsou smyšlená.

Lukáš

2015-11-18 16:27 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :

>
> -- Původní zpráva --
> Od: Martin Ždila 
> Komu: OpenStreetMap Czech Republic 
> Datum: 18. 11. 2015 16:15:30
> Předmět: Re: [Talk-cz] imaginarni mesto
>
> 2015-11-14 8:45 GMT+01:00 Marián Kyral :
>
> andrewsh s tím už začal: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/35151699
>
> Uvidíme, jestli se ozve.
>
> zatiaľ nič
>
>
> Jen dostal ban (který už skončil).
>
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/846
>
>
> Marián
>
>
>
> --
> Ing. Martin Ždila 
> OZ Freemap Slovakia
> tel:+421-908-363-848
> mailto:martin.zd...@freemap.sk
> http://www.freemap.sk/
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[OSM-legal-talk] Interesting ruling by the ECJ

[Simon Poole]

For those that do not read weeklyOSM/Wochennotiz (you really should)

http://curia.europa.eu/juris/celex.jsf?celex=62014CJ0490=de=TXT=

Simon



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Mateusz Konieczny]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:52:40 -0500
john whelan  wrote:

> HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a
> simpler more standardized approach.  Many of their volunteers often
> do not know enough English to write a meaningful change set comment.

In that case somebody is editing OSM. Doing it for HOT related-purposes
does not mean that it has special rights.

In that case "HOT and OSM are slightly different" is meaningless and
not relevant - it is OSM.

> HOT tends to map in areas that do not have a great deal of OSM mapping
> already in place so I don't see that it really matters if they use
> preset comments from the tile system.

Again - it is edit in OSM. Imports, remote mapping, including remote
mapping for HOT purposes have no special rights. If anything armchair
and automated mapping must be more careful.

Claiming that empty/useless changeset comments are OK is absurd and
arrogant.

> Or are we now asking that all mappers on OSM have to be able to read
> and write in English since that is the normal language for
> communication in OSM or is one of the local African languages
> sufficient.

In that case complaint was clearly about content - or to be more
precise lack of it. Using local language is perfectly OK.

> On 18 November 2015 at 19:11, Frederik Ramm 
> wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> >I would like to draw everyone's attention to a long-standing
> > community recommendation:
> >
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Good_changeset_comments
> >
> > It explains why you should use sensible changeset comments that
> > describe what you (think you) have been doing.
> >
> > I don't know exactly who encourages this, but I am seeing lots of
> > changesets with comments like this:
> >
> > #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
> > #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek
> >
> > This is *not* useful. First of all, we're not Twitter; we don't
> > evaluate these hashtags. I don't know if there are some downstream
> > services that do, but if so, please switch to using a secondary tag
> > (remember, changesets, like other OSM objects, can have any number
> > of tags).
> >
> > As a reader of the edit history of a place, I am interested in
> > someone writing that they have traced buildings or drawn roads or
> > done whatever. I'm not so much interested in (what I perceive as)
> > vanity hashtags, they don't help me understand what the person did.
> >
> > I mean look at this:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/history#map=6/8.418/43.923
> >
> > It's really a caricature of what changeset comments were meant to
> > be.
> >
> > Can it be fixed somehow, or have we permanently moved from changeset
> > comments being aimed at your fellow human mappers to changeset
> > comments being auto-generated for consumption by some software that
> > makes sense of them?
> >
> > Bye
> > Frederik
> >
> > --
> > Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frede...@remote.org  ##  N49°00'09"
> > E008°23'33"
> >
> > ___
> > talk mailing list
> > talk@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
> >


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Re: [Talk-us] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in, favor of relations

[Paul Johnson]

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Paul Fox  wrote:

> russ wrote:
>  > Paul Johnson writes:
>  >  > I was really hoping the latest carto would have included relations
> and
>  >  > graphical shields myself, since that's almost a throwaway ticklist
> item for
>  >  > maps (and particularly online maps) the world over these days.
>  >
>  > I took the time to create relations for all of my county's routes
>  > because I wanted to see them rendered with graphical shields.
>
> thinking about the term "sunset" in the subject:  when route relations
> are created, does that mean the ref= tags go away?  seems like there's
> a need for a transition period in there somewhere.
>

Obviously there needs to be a sunrise for consumers to catch up, but
eventually the dinosaur needs to be killed.  There's some places where the
way has a ref unique to the route, as noted on the ground, that currently
isn't easy to map thanks to the associated tag already being used to
identify the ref of an entirely different entity (the route relation).  I'm
also suggesting that the quicker we do this, the more painless it'll be.
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Re: [Talk-de] Nominatim, Probleme und Merkwürdigkeiten

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Vielen Dank für die Antwort!


Am 19. November 2015 um 12:22 schrieb Sarah Hoffmann :

>
> Kurz gesagt, altbekanntes Problem. Wenn du etwas im Trac suchst, findest du
> reichlich Bugreports betreffst dem Problem mit dem Weglassen von Vornamen
> und
> Titeln in romanischen Sprachen in Nominatim.
>



was ich vor allem komisch fand, dass "corso gramsci, aquileia" kein
Ergebnis brachte, "via gramsci, aquileia" aber schon (der richtige Name ist
aber Corso Antonio Gramsci), so eine Art Spezialbehandlung für Via scheint
es zu geben, die Corso bisher nicht berücksichtigt.



> Beste derzeitige Lösung ist die Angabe der üblichen Kurzform im short_name
> Tag.



OK (das sind allerdings die meisten Straßen mit Namen, die dann diesen tag
bekommen), ähnlich machen wir das auch schon für Datumsangaben, wo sowohl
ausgeschrieben, arabische Ziffern und römische Zahlen vorkommen können
(z.B. "Via quattro Novembre", "Via 4 Novembre", "Via IV Novembre").
Vielleicht könnten wir diese stattdessen auch in die Abkürzungstabelle als
Abkürzungen eintragen? (Es kommen nicht so viele Zahlen tatsächlich vor,
sind jeweils besondere Datumsangaben).



> Irgendwann wird Nomiantim (oder eine andere Suchmaschine) auch mal passende
> Heuristiken zur Abkürzung lernen, aber das passiert nicht in naher Zukunft.
>


OK, wenn man das weiss ist man schon motivierter, die Sachen einzutragen



>
> Was ihr ausserdem als Community tun könnt, ist die Liste der üblichen
> Abkürzungen in
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_finder:Abbreviations
> zu ergänzen. die italienische Sektion ist da gerade noch sehr knapp
> gehalten



Werde ich auf jeden Fall ansprechen, sieht mir auf den ersten Blick schon
gar nicht schlecht aus, was wir da haben, gibt aber sicherlich noch mehr.
Wenn es nun mehrere Möglichkeiten gibt, tragen wir die dann einfach alle
untereinander ein, z.B. "S." kann sein: "San", "Sant'", "Santa"?


Gruß,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-de] Nominatim, Probleme und Merkwürdigkeiten

[Sarah Hoffmann]

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 01:11:32PM +0100, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:
> Am 19. November 2015 um 12:22 schrieb Sarah Hoffmann :
> 
> >
> > Kurz gesagt, altbekanntes Problem. Wenn du etwas im Trac suchst, findest du
> > reichlich Bugreports betreffst dem Problem mit dem Weglassen von Vornamen
> > und
> > Titeln in romanischen Sprachen in Nominatim.
> 
> was ich vor allem komisch fand, dass "corso gramsci, aquileia" kein
> Ergebnis brachte, "via gramsci, aquileia" aber schon (der richtige Name ist
> aber Corso Antonio Gramsci), so eine Art Spezialbehandlung für Via scheint
> es zu geben, die Corso bisher nicht berücksichtigt.

Das ist eine echte Falschzuordnung, die in etwa so geht:
Bekannte Abkürzungen werden auf die Anfrage angewendet, hier via -> v.
Ergibt sich somit "v gramsci, aquileia". Dann wird die List potentieller
Hausnummern abgesucht, und da steht 'v' drin. Hausnummern können aber in
der Anfrage wegfallen, bleibt "gramsci, aquileia" und das passt natürlich
auf die "Corso Antonio Gramsci, Aquileia".

Die Lösung des Problems ist theoretisch einfach (merken, dass das v ein
abgekürztes via ist), praktisch aber etwas trickreicher zu implementieren.

> > Beste derzeitige Lösung ist die Angabe der üblichen Kurzform im short_name
> > Tag.
> 
> OK (das sind allerdings die meisten Straßen mit Namen, die dann diesen tag
> bekommen), ähnlich machen wir das auch schon für Datumsangaben, wo sowohl
> ausgeschrieben, arabische Ziffern und römische Zahlen vorkommen können
> (z.B. "Via quattro Novembre", "Via 4 Novembre", "Via IV Novembre").
> Vielleicht könnten wir diese stattdessen auch in die Abkürzungstabelle als
> Abkürzungen eintragen? (Es kommen nicht so viele Zahlen tatsächlich vor,
> sind jeweils besondere Datumsangaben).

Zahlen ist nochmal ein anderes Problem. Das ist noch viel relevanter für
die Amerikaner mit den vielen durchnummerierten Sprachen. Trickreich wird
es vor allem, weil Nominatim das natürlich in allen Sprachen können muss.

> > Was ihr ausserdem als Community tun könnt, ist die Liste der üblichen
> > Abkürzungen in
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_finder:Abbreviations
> > zu ergänzen. die italienische Sektion ist da gerade noch sehr knapp
> > gehalten
> 
> Werde ich auf jeden Fall ansprechen, sieht mir auf den ersten Blick schon
> gar nicht schlecht aus, was wir da haben, gibt aber sicherlich noch mehr.

Ich sehe, dass du schon einiges ergänzt hast.
Wie gesagt, Zahlen ist noch ein anderes Problem. Aber was sich in der Liste
noch gut macht, sind Titel (Capitano, Dottore etc.). Also
eben das, was man üblicherweise an Abkürzungen in Strassennamen benutzt.

> Wenn es nun mehrere Möglichkeiten gibt, tragen wir die dann einfach alle
> untereinander ein, z.B. "S." kann sein: "San", "Sant'", "Santa"?

Ja, bitte.

Gruss

Sarah

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Re: [Talk-it] Dubbi su Nominatim

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Ho ottenuto risposta.
In generale il problema di nomi stradali senza nomi con solo cognome è ben
noto, però non sarà risolto prossimamente, quindi il consiglio è di
aggiungere un tag "short_name" per ogni via, esempio: name=Via Giuseppe
Garibaldi, short_name=Via Garibaldi

Non dovrebbe essere necessario di aggiungere V. come abbreviazione di Via,
in quanto esiste questa lista che lo contiene:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Name_finder:Abbreviations#Italiano_-_Italian

Ho appena aggiunto altri termini ed invito tutti di fare lo stesso. (Quindi
non vi sorprendete se alcune abbreviazioni contenute nella lista ancora non
funzionano su nominatim in questo momento). Per esempio mancano lago, monte
ecc. forse anche "comune", ... dei, di, del, degli, delle, della, per, da,
.

Ciao,
Martin
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[Talk-dk] When anyone edits OSM around Ribe give me a message

[Michael Andersen]

Hej

Jeg har længe holdt øje med området omkring Ribe ved hjælp af rss beskeder fra 
http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/.

I forbindelse med en snak på den internationale OSM IRC liste lavede jeg en 
"published" version af min IFTTT recept.
Måske der er nogle her på listen der vil sætte pris på den også.

When anyone edits OSM around Ribe give me a message
An IFTTT Recipe by hjart

https://ifttt.com/recipes/343792-when-anyone-edits-osm-around-ribe-give-me-a-message

Mvh Hjart

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Andy Townsend]

On 19/11/2015 10:16, Ben Abelshausen wrote:


You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the 
mapping activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who 
validates, what mappers contributed and so on.


Can you please explain where any of that is documented within 
OpenStreetMap?  As an example, I recently came across this:


https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/381043577

It's a building that is a closed way, but only just.  How can I offer to 
help that mapper do what they are trying to do better?  All the 
changeset comment says is "#MissingMaps #hotosm-project-1254 Lubumbashi, 
Congo (DRC) #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek " - to me the only useful 
information in there is "Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)", which I already know 
since that is exactly where this edit is.


More importantly, how do I contact the person who told this new mapper 
that "#MissingMaps #hotosm-project-1254 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC) 
#100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek" was a suitable changeset comment, to explain 
to them what we use changeset comments for and what makes a good one?  
If I can talk to them, I can probably help them help other new users 
too, and not just with stuff about changeset comments - as an OSM mapper 
think of all the "how to interpret imagery" latent knowledge that you 
have simply by being able to compare a place you visited with the 
imagery of that place.


Cheers,

Andy


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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Nicolás Alvarez]

> El 19 nov 2015, a las 07:16, Ben Abelshausen  
> escribió:
> 
> These changesets are way more useful than most.
> 
> You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the mapping 
> activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who validates, what 
> mappers contributed and so on.
> 
> That doesn't mean things couldn't be better. Maybe moving some information to 
> the changeset tags may be a solution, the id of the task for example, and the 
> tile or some description in the comment.

That is very useful information to have **in addition** to a normal changeset 
comment. 

Did you trace roads from imagery, or improve the geometry of an existing road 
and fix the highway= classification as a tile validation step? Did you add 
houses and schools? Is there anything you added where you aren't confident you 
interpreted the satellite imagery right, and someone doing validation should 
pay special attention to?

Here is one of mine from a HOT task: "Finish tracing road, add classification 
to it and some others nearby, trace storage tanks."

In fact, while I usually write descriptive changeset comments, I just took a 
look at my change history and came out thinking I should be (and should have 
been) even *more* verbose. Maybe it's because lately I have been working more 
on software code, where you can sometimes see a three-paragraph commit message 
explaining a 2-line code change...

-- 
Nicolás
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Re: [OSM-legal-talk] question regarding produced work

[Lars-Daniel Weber]

Frederik Ramm wrote on Donnerstag, 19. November 2015 um 13:46 Uhr:
>
> I would have a stronger opinion if it were a case where external data is
> mixed with OSM to create an "added value" product - but if someone just
> mangles the OSM data a bit, I'm tempted to view that as part of the
> rendering.
 
The guidelines say that you need even to release the steps to create
a derived database (or share the diff or share the database itself).

So it's not done by saying: "download the raw data".
That's against the license.
 
> You said that you have made several requests to the site operator to
> hand over the data. Has *any* of them been a polite request where you
> did not express your assumed entitlement to receive it ("Dear XXX could
> I perhaps have a copy of the data"), or have they been like ("Hello XXX
> your data is ODbL hence you must give it to me") from the start?

I've read some discussions about this on IRC. My request was about a
small "how to get the result" as described before. 

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[malenki]

On Wed, 18 Nov 2015 19:52:40 -0500,
john whelan wrote:

> HOT and OSM are slightly different, HOT maps on OSM but uses a
> simpler more standardized approach.  

fwiw: HOT means Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team.
For me this sounds a lot like "very close to OSM".

> Many of their volunteers ofte  do not know enough English to write a
> meaningful change set comment.

So let them do it in their native language. Ideally, in the future
there will be more local mappers which should speak the same language

> HOT tends to map in areas that do not have a great deal of OSM mapping
> already in place so I don't see that it really matters if they use
> preset comments from the tile system.

What does it matter if there is already a lot or little of data to
changeset comments? As I said above: individual comments should help
individual mappers later on.

> Or are we now asking that all mappers on OSM have to be able to read
> and write in English since that is the normal language for
> communication in OSM or is one of the local African languages
> sufficient. 

Any language is sufficient, preferredly one spoken in the region where
the mapping occurs.

> If it is then I assure you I won't be able to understand
> what it says.

As it was pointed out: there are online translating tools.
Additionally: do you need to understand all changeset comments in OSM?
In China, Japan and Russia, too? :)

> I think one thing I like about HOT is the validation process, an
> experienced mapper goes over the mapping and tries to eliminate as
> many errors or mis-tags as possible and ensure that everything
> visible in the image is mapped,

Well, when I think of the HOT data I often look at it seems mostly I am
the (only) one doing the bug fixing and validating if I have some time
I can spend on it.
An example:
Lately in Afghanistan HOT didn't ask for waterways being mapped which
resulted in various issues:
Bridges weren't mapped because they are hard to distinguish in that
region when you don't look for waterways too – and bridges are prone to
collapse during earth quakes.
Fords aren't mapped for the same reason.
Quite some of the intermittent waterways get incorrectly mapped as
highways. Sure, there /are/ waterways being used as highways, but not
the ones I reviewed.

Because of this and some more issues (tons of highway=road, highways
connected to residential areas, a bad import from ~2010) I decided to
skip assigning to tasks but instead first map complete waterways and
afterwards all waterway/highway intersections. I also fixed the other
issues mentioned.
Well, I got a bit offtopic.

Two of the problems are that there is
a) a lack of enough manpower to map (e.g. there is still a lot missing
in HOT's Afghanistan Tasks)
b) a lack of enough manpower to review

An other example was a training of mappers in Albania.
The result was partly quite messy: a bunch of ways being not
rectangular nor having tags on them (well, some with area=yes).
There was no cleanup several weeks after editing stopped. I wonder what
the training effect is when the data gets left in this state
I had problems finding the person responsible for this task. Regarding
his OSM edits history he seemed not more experienced in mapping than his
pupils.

> and yes I understand armchair mappers are looked down on by many
> mappers

Is that so?
I do map both ways a lot and being a good "armchair mapper" needs
skills which need to be trained, too.
By the way, 99% my mapping (!= collecting data/surveying) is done in
an armchair. :)

> but the work they do is valuable in many areas.

Of course.

Regards,
Thomas



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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Blake Girardot]

On 11/19/2015 3:58 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote:


Of course you are also right when you say that HOT instructions do
sometimes clash with our usual quality expectations (I remember a recent
discussion about tagging "village greens" so that these can be
interpreted as helicopter landing sites or so). I think we were mostly
ok with this at the time when Haiti disaster mappers used
leisure=camping_ground to make refugee camps appear on the standard map;
such "crypto tagging" must, of course, remain an emergency measure and
not something we do regularly because it is easier.


This is another example where HOT took this advice about leisure=commons 
as well as aeroway=helipad and immediately modified how it asked 
contributors to tag things, clarified what should be tagged 
leisure=commons and aeroway=helipad and went through and reviewed every 
item that was tagged that way in Nepal (the context of the discussion at 
the time) and either revised how it was tagged or removed what we agreed 
was probably questionably tagged.


We also actively avoid making claims of "emergency measures" for tagging 
(or anything mapping related really), local context for tagging meanings 
is different, but we have been making efforts to always make sure our 
tagging fits the spirit of OSM tags we use and where that is not 
possible, try and develop consistent useful tags that do meet our needs 
and are maintainable. Admittedly sometimes that is a bit ad hoc.


Anyway, as I have said, we always want to work with the OSM community to 
either use the tags in a way that everyone understands and accepts or 
develop tags for things that are appropriate for OSM. Can we do better? 
For sure. Are we trying to do better and have we improved? Also for sure.


Thank you for bringing these things up Frederik, it helps HOT and OSM.

cheers,
Blake



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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Blake Girardot]

On 11/19/2015 4:02 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote:

Blake Girardot wrote:

As to the original issue Ramm raised:


Frederik's first name is Frederik. It's not that uncommon. :) Please can we
avoid this becoming _really_ unnecessarily confrontational by calling people
by their surnames in a sort of English public school style ("go it,
molesworth, show them wot yore made of").

Richard


Thats true, I apologize. I was going to be formal and then couldn't 
decide if I should use Mr. or Herr and ended up using neither.


Either way, I apologize, I should have said Frederik.

Regards,
Blake




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[talk-ph] country comparison of OSM road coverage

[maning sambale]

I used to run a monthly PH road stats and compare them to CIA's numbers.
Now you can see it for the whole world:
https://www.mapbox.com/blog/how-complete-is-openstreetmap/

How do we finish the last 26%? ;)
https://www.mapbox.com/data-platform/country/#philippines


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[Talk-in] Roads in India: How complete is OpenStreetMap ?

[Naveen Francis]

Hi

Blog from Mikel shows that in India only 21% of roads are mapped. [ref: CIA
factbook ]

https://www.mapbox.com/blog/how-complete-is-openstreetmap/

https://gist.github.com/tcql/0d7ad9b32afbea76f615

Is there any further analysis by states or type of road ?

Thanks,
naveenpf
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Re: [OSM-ja] お手すきの方は、ご協力いただけると幸いです。

[下り専門]

吉川さん、こんにちは。下り専門ともうします。

いま、編集できる状況にないのですが、
「OSM Inspector」で海岸線のエラーをさがせます。
http://tools.geofabrik.de/osmi/?view=coastline

四国で一か所エラーがでていますが、
ひょっとしたら以下のチェンジセットで直っているかもしれません。
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/35448497

（吉川さんのリバートより前の編集です）

海岸線の再描画には時間がかかります。
帰宅したらPCで詳しく見てみます。
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[OSM-talk-be] Mapbox, road completeness, CIA factbook

[Marc Gemis]

Mapbox made a tool [1] to see how complete the road networks in a
country are. Belgium got a 73%
They blogged about it in [2]


regards


m


[1] https://www.mapbox.com/data-platform/country/#belgium
[2] https://www.mapbox.com/blog/how-complete-is-openstreetmap/

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Re: [Talk-at] Treffen Linz AG - OSM Community

[Flaimo]

Hallo,

ich warte immer noch auf eine Antwort von der Linz AG, ob der Termin am
2.12. jetzt fixiert werden kann, habe aber bis jetzt keine Antwort
erhalten.

flaimo

2015-11-19 16:47 GMT+01:00 Stefan K. :

> Hallo,
>
> Wie sieht es denn hier atm aus? Gibts mehr infos (und ich habs übersehen?)
>
> Lg
>
>
> Am 03. November 2015 21:47:49 MEZ, schrieb Flaimo :
>>
>> Hallo,
>>
>> ich werde die Doodle-Umfrage Ende der Woche abschließen. Falls sich also
>> noch wer eintragen will, besteht noch bis Freitag eine Chance. Das
>> Interesse ist überraschend hoch bis jetzt...
>>
>> flaimo
>>
>> 2015-10-20 14:20 GMT+02:00 Markus Mayr :
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Als Exil-Linzer in Wien fände ich einen Stammtisch in Linz auch ganz
>>> interessant. :-D
>>>
>>> lg, Markus / ScubbX
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 2015-10-20 um 12:44 schrieb Patrick Steiner:
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Da ich ja jetzt auch ein Linzer bin, wäre ich bei einem Stammtisch gerne 
>>> dabei.
>>>
>>> LG
>>>  Patrick / law_skynet
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20.10.2015, at 12:28, Günther Zin.  
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>> +1
>>> Wenn es sich zeitlich ausgeht, wäre ich auch gerne dabei.
>>>
>>> Am Dienstag, 20. Oktober 2015 11:59 CEST, "Bernhard Holub" 
>>>   schrieb:
>>>
>>>
>>> +1 auch von mir.
>>> Zu einem Stammtisch komm ich gerne.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 19 November 2015, Kate Chapman wrote:
> >
> > And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read:
> >
> > "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and
> > tag them landuse=residential"
> >
> > that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely
> > to map reality, what's on the ground.  It instructs mappers to map
> > something that does not exist in reality based on abstract
> > geometric considerations and to give it a tag that is meant for
> > something different.
> >
> > Referring to
>
>  landuse=residential is a globally used tag, so you can hardly call
> out HOT for using it.

Is it really so difficult to understand that the cited instructions are 
wrong and lead to bogus mapping like here:

http://mc.bbbike.org/mc/?lon=70.356396=37.310341=14=2=mapbox-satellite=mapnik

This might look plausible to someone from Europe or North America but 
the truth is in terms of mapping reality this is not even inaccurate, 
it is pure garbage as far as landuse mapping is concerned.  The actual 
area that would truely qualify as landuse=residential is likely only 
about 5-10 percent of what is mapped here - if at all, in many cases 
the criterion 'predominantly residential' is likely not met and 
landuse=farmyard would be more accurate.

And to address Richard/Frederik: This is not the same as early mapping 
in Europe, here we have a settlement structure which is fundamentally 
different from that of rural Afghanistan.  You can not reliably 
identify any of these settlements on Landsat imagery.  The coarse 
landuse drawing is merely extrapolated from the presence of buildings 
and is not connected to actually observable landuse on any scale.

But there is no sense in getting lost in this particular example - it is 
just that, an example.  So i repeat my suggestion to improve QA of the 
mapping instructions and allowing the OSM community to effectively 
correct mistakes there.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-11-19 15:30 GMT+01:00 Kate Chapman :

>
>> "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and tag
>> them landuse=residential"
>>
>> that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely to map
>> reality, what's on the ground.  It instructs mappers to map something
>> that does not exist in reality based on abstract geometric
>> considerations and to give it a tag that is meant for something
>> different.
>>
>> Referring to
>>
>
>  landuse=residential is a globally used tag, so you can hardly call out
> HOT for using it.
>
> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/landuse=residential#map
>


it is not a tag for groups of buildings though, it is a tag for residential
landuse.

Cheers,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] 21-22 novembre: incontro OpenStreetMap a Bologna

[alessandro . palmas]

Salve lista!

Ho aggiornato la pagina wiki
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/2015_Novembre_OpenStreetMap_Bologna

Abbiamo deciso di tenere aperto il canale IRC così chi vuole unirsi ai
gruppi di lavoro e dare una mano da remoto potrà coordinarsi.
Se ci fosse qualche talk importante vedremo di tirare su una diretta
streaming e lo comunicheremo lì oltre che qui in lista.
Per ora i punti in agenda sono i seguenti:

Agenda
aggiornare ital.img
valutazione / iniziare tileserver con stile italiano
taginfo italiano (?)
statistiche
estratti
miglioramento del wiki
lettere per richiesta di corretta attribuzione

L'appuntamento ufficiale è in stazione alle 10, c'è chi arriverà alle 9,15
chi alle 9,35, chi più tardi.
I primi inizieranno ad andare nella sede per tirare su tutta la baracca.
Chi viene è pregato di segnarlo sul wiki o almeno di avvisare qui in
lista.
C'è altro?

State tonnati (stay tuned) :-)

Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT


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Re: [Talk-it] [mancata attribuzione] Cellmapper

[Simone]

Il 20 novembre 2015 00:31:33 CET, Cascafico Giovanni  ha 
scritto:
>Se selezionate il layer Openstreetmap nella mappa [1], nessuna
>attribuzione, ed i "terms of use" riportano a Google.
>
>
>
>[1] https://www.cellmapper.net/map
>
>
>
>
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Confermo, anche da smartphone stessa cosa .


-- Simone Girardelli--

Inviato con K-9 Mail dal mio Samsung S5
Scusate per la brevità dello scritto.

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Re: [Talk-it] [mancata attribuzione] Cellmapper

[alessandro . palmas]

Il 20/11/2015 00:31, Cascafico Giovanni ha scritto:
> Se selezionate il layer Openstreetmap nella mappa [1], nessuna
attribuzione, ed i "terms of use" riportano a Google.
>
>
>
> [1] https://www.cellmapper.net/map
>

Mi sono registrato al sito e postato nel forum una segnalazione

https://www.cellmapper.net/bb/viewtopic.php?f=5=285

Alessandro Ale_Zena_IT


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[Talk-at] Einladung zum November-Stammtisch in Graz am 23.11.

[Michael Maier]

Liebe OpenStreetMap-Interessierte in der Steiermark,

Ich lade herzlich ein zum nächsten OpenStreetMap-Stammtisch Graz am
Montag, 23.11.!

Der Stammtisch findet um 18:00 im Brot & Spiele in Graz  statt -
Tischreservierung auf „žOpenStreetMap“, wir sitzen im Kaminzimmer
(Nichtraucherbereich).

Zwecks Agenda und sonstigem bitte die Wiki-Seite konsultieren:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Graz/Stammtisch

Ich freue mich auf euer kommen!

lg, Michael

--
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OpenStreetMap Graz http://osm.org/go/0Iz@paV
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Tom Taylor]

On 19/11/2015 5:31 AM, Andy Townsend wrote:

On 19/11/2015 10:16, Ben Abelshausen wrote:


You can go the tasking manager and see exactly what the goal of the
mapping activity was, who is the admin that created the task and who
validates, what mappers contributed and so on.


Can you please explain where any of that is documented within
OpenStreetMap?  As an example, I recently came across this:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/381043577

It's a building that is a closed way, but only just.  How can I offer to
help that mapper do what they are trying to do better?  All the
changeset comment says is "#MissingMaps #hotosm-project-1254 Lubumbashi,
Congo (DRC) #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek " - to me the only useful
information in there is "Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)", which I already know
since that is exactly where this edit is.

More importantly, how do I contact the person who told this new mapper
that "#MissingMaps #hotosm-project-1254 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
#100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek" was a suitable changeset comment, to explain
to them what we use changeset comments for and what makes a good one? If
I can talk to them, I can probably help them help other new users too,
and not just with stuff about changeset comments - as an OSM mapper
think of all the "how to interpret imagery" latent knowledge that you
have simply by being able to compare a place you visited with the
imagery of that place.

Cheers,

Andy


...
Blake Girardot has written a template for HOT coordinators to use when 
putting together the instructions for their project. Anyhing this 
community agrees on regarding changeset comments should go into that 
template document. I will note the issue at next Monday's HOT Training 
Working Group meeting.


BTW the HOT Training WGF has been tasked with updating LerarnOSM, for 
the general OSM community as well as HOT. The work is going a bit slowly 
-- a matter of personal circumstances of the people involved, but it is 
proceeding.


Tom Taylor
Chair, HOT Training WG

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Re: [Talk-at] Treffen Linz AG - OSM Community

[Stefan K.]

Hallo,

Wie sieht es denn hier atm aus? Gibts mehr infos (und ich habs übersehen?)

Lg

Am 03. November 2015 21:47:49 MEZ, schrieb Flaimo :
>Hallo,
>
>ich werde die Doodle-Umfrage Ende der Woche abschließen. Falls sich
>also
>noch wer eintragen will, besteht noch bis Freitag eine Chance. Das
>Interesse ist überraschend hoch bis jetzt...
>
>flaimo
>
>2015-10-20 14:20 GMT+02:00 Markus Mayr :
>
>> +1
>>
>> Als Exil-Linzer in Wien fände ich einen Stammtisch in Linz auch ganz
>> interessant. :-D
>>
>> lg, Markus / ScubbX
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 2015-10-20 um 12:44 schrieb Patrick Steiner:
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Da ich ja jetzt auch ein Linzer bin, wäre ich bei einem Stammtisch
>gerne dabei.
>>
>> LG
>>  Patrick / law_skynet
>>
>>
>> On 20.10.2015, at 12:28, Günther Zin. 
> wrote:
>>
>> +1
>> Wenn es sich zeitlich ausgeht, wäre ich auch gerne dabei.
>>
>> Am Dienstag, 20. Oktober 2015 11:59 CEST, "Bernhard Holub"
>  schrieb:
>>
>>
>> +1 auch von mir.
>> Zu einem Stammtisch komm ich gerne.
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
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>>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-de] Nominatim, Probleme und Merkwürdigkeiten

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

Am 19. November 2015 um 13:49 schrieb Sarah Hoffmann :

> Das ist eine echte Falschzuordnung, die in etwa so geht:
> Bekannte Abkürzungen werden auf die Anfrage angewendet, hier via -> v.
> Ergibt sich somit "v gramsci, aquileia". Dann wird die List potentieller
> Hausnummern abgesucht, und da steht 'v' drin. Hausnummern können aber in
> der Anfrage wegfallen, bleibt "gramsci, aquileia" und das passt natürlich
> auf die "Corso Antonio Gramsci, Aquileia".
>


Mir ist jetzt aufgefallen, dass es z.T. mehrere unterschiedliche
Abkürzungen für dasselbe Wort gibt, z.B.
quattro=4
quattro=IV

es gibt übrigens auch den entgegengesetzten Fall,
quarto=IV  (d.h. gleiche Abkürzung mit unterschiedlicher Bedeutung)

Gruß,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-it] Nominatim comportamento strano

[Marco_T]

Aury88 wrote
> i due tratti di strada da me prima linkati non c'è verso di farglieli
> trovare...

Come ho gia' suggerito in altra discussione prova ad invertire località<>via
così:

"cassina de' pecchi, via torrente molgora"

e vedrai che un risultato esce.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/search?query=cassina%20de%27%20pecchi%2C%20via%20torrente%20molgora#map=18/45.51999/9.39516


> Il problema si presenta in maniera diversa su OSMAnd dove invece non mi
> trova proprio una "via torrente molgora" 
> :-/

Che release usi? Quelle precedenti alla 2.x davano anche a me qualche
problema. L'ultima mi sembra funzioni meglio, nel senso che mi trova piu'
facilmente le vie...
Se serve la puoi scaricare da F-Droid:
https://f-droid.org/repository/browse/?fdid=net.osmand.plus

Ciao

-- 
Marco_T




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[Talk-ec] Fwd: [talk-latam] Herramientas para mejorar el sentido de las calles en OSM

[Daniel Orellana]

--
Daniel Orellana V.

PhD en Geoinformación
Grupo de Investigación en Ciudades Sustentables
Grupo de Investigación en Recursos Hídricos y Ciencias Ambientales
Universidad de Cuenca.





-- Forwarded message --
From: Gonzales, Miriam - (p) 
Date: 2015-11-18 18:07 GMT-05:00
Subject: [talk-latam] Herramientas para mejorar el sentido de las calles en
OSM
To: "talk...@openstreetmap.org" , "
talk-la...@openstreetmap.org" 


Hola comunidad mapera!

Les comparto un par de herramientas que desarrolló la empresa donde trabajo
Telenav para mejorar el flujo de los sentidos de las calles. El blog viene
en Inglés y desafortunadamente no he tenido tiempo para traducirlo pero lo
pueden traducir con alguna herramienta en internet.  Si tienen dudas le
podemos preguntar directamente a Martijn Van Exel para que nos las aclare.
Las herramientas son:

a. Traffic Flow direction Plugin (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/36244)
b. Fix missing and wrong one way streets (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/mvexel/diary/36209)

Nota:
Creo que esto es para cuando el mapa de México esté más robusto pero por
favor vayan probando las herramientas y si lo ven de utilidad me avisan y
si lo consideran que se puede mejorar en algo les pido me indiquen y así
pueda servir para mejorar el mapa México y LatAm :)
  Saludos,M



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[Talk-it] Farmacie italiane

[Cascafico Giovanni]

Ciao Lista!

Ho pubblicato delle note sulla possibile importazione del dataset Ministero
Salute

https://goo.gl/M8dJxK

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Re: [Talk-us] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in, favor of relations

[Paul Fox]

paul johnson wrote:
 > On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Paul Fox  wrote:
 > 
 > > russ wrote:
 > >  > Paul Johnson writes:
 > >  >  > I was really hoping the latest carto would have included
 > >  >  > relations and graphical shields myself, since that's almost
 > >  >  > a throwaway ticklist item for maps (and particularly online
 > >  >  > maps) the world over these days.
 > >  >
 > >  > I took the time to create relations for all of my county's routes
 > >  > because I wanted to see them rendered with graphical shields.
 > >
 > > thinking about the term "sunset" in the subject:  when route relations
 > > are created, does that mean the ref= tags go away?  seems like there's
 > > a need for a transition period in there somewhere.
 > >
 > 
 > Obviously there needs to be a sunrise for consumers to catch up, but
 > eventually the dinosaur needs to be killed.  There's some places where the
 > way has a ref unique to the route, as noted on the ground, that currently
 > isn't easy to map thanks to the associated tag already being used to
 > identify the ref of an entirely different entity (the route relation).  I'm
 > also suggesting that the quicker we do this, the more painless it'll be.

okay.  then, speaking as the maintainer of an independent renderer:
where are such sunrise/sunset transitions announced/scheduled/tracked? 
is the "announce" list the place to be?  (all i usually see there is
server outages.) can someone point me to a region (most of) whose
routes have been converted, for testing?

(i should add that it's entirely possible that this transition was
announced and discussed and declared imperative on every single list
in all caps at some point, and i might have missed it.  i took a long
break from map projects until recently when i had some new energy and
time to spare.)

paul
=--
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Re: [Talk-it] Nominatim comportamento strano

[Aury88]

grazie marco,
ma anche invertendo città e via continua a darmi un comportamento identico a
quello di prima...non so... ho pensato fosse un problema tipo di cache ma il
mio browser cancella tutto quando lo riavvio :-/ 
per OSMAnd effettivamente ho la 2.1.1. 
provo a caricare la versione aggiornata e vediamo ;-)
grazie per l'aiuto



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Re: [Talk-it] Farmacie italiane

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-11-19 14:27 GMT+01:00 Cascafico Giovanni :

> Ho pubblicato delle note sulla possibile importazione del dataset
> Ministero Salute
>
> https://goo.gl/M8dJxK
>

grazie per l'informazione, attualmente è solo FVG, vero?
Ti vorrei chiedere di usare dei links leggibili da umani, anzichè passare
la richiesta via Google, scrivere direttamente
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Cascafico/diary/36380
E' più bello anche nell'archivio della ML. Grazie,


Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in, favor of relations

[Paul Johnson]

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Paul Fox  wrote:

> paul johnson wrote:
>  > On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 3:25 PM, Paul Fox 
> wrote:
>  >
>  > > russ wrote:
>  > >  > Paul Johnson writes:
>  > >  >  > I was really hoping the latest carto would have included
>  > >  >  > relations and graphical shields myself, since that's almost
>  > >  >  > a throwaway ticklist item for maps (and particularly online
>  > >  >  > maps) the world over these days.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > I took the time to create relations for all of my county's routes
>  > >  > because I wanted to see them rendered with graphical shields.
>  > >
>  > > thinking about the term "sunset" in the subject:  when route relations
>  > > are created, does that mean the ref= tags go away?  seems like there's
>  > > a need for a transition period in there somewhere.
>  > >
>  >
>  > Obviously there needs to be a sunrise for consumers to catch up, but
>  > eventually the dinosaur needs to be killed.  There's some places where
> the
>  > way has a ref unique to the route, as noted on the ground, that
> currently
>  > isn't easy to map thanks to the associated tag already being used to
>  > identify the ref of an entirely different entity (the route relation).
> I'm
>  > also suggesting that the quicker we do this, the more painless it'll be.
>
> okay.  then, speaking as the maintainer of an independent renderer:
> where are such sunrise/sunset transitions announced/scheduled/tracked?
> is the "announce" list the place to be?  (all i usually see there is
> server outages.) can someone point me to a region (most of) whose
> routes have been converted, for testing?


This is being discussed right here, right now.  I threw the end of next
year out there as a roughly 15 month target from when I mentioned it.  The
US is reasonably complete in terms of route relations, particularly in
Texas which tends to be an extreme case.
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Richard Fairhurst]

Christoph Hormann wrote:
> And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read:
>
> "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings 
> and tag them landuse=residential"
>
> that is in violation of one of the core principles of OSM, namely 
> to map reality, what's on the ground.

The core principle you're looking for is that OSM is iterative. We iterate
towards completion. Start simple, become detailed.

Back in the day, we used big swathes of landuse= to mark residential areas,
and abutters= to indicate shops beside roads. You and I are fortunate enough
to live in OSM-rich countries where all the important stuff has now been
mapped and people can concentrate on unimportant fripperies like building
outlines and addresses. By definition, HOT activities aren't in such
countries.

It's absolutely reasonable to start with approximations and replace them
over time - that's what we were doing in the UK when the map was at a
similar state of development to these places. Call it a Minimum Viable Map.

Let's have a bit less judgement, and a bit more helping newbie mappers (and
their organisers, who may not have as long-standing an OSM background as
you) to do things well.

Richard




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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Kate Chapman]

Can you explain to me what a "rapid anti-OSMer" is? I can only assume that
is someone that prefers to use proprietary mapslikely a contributor to
Google Mapmaker. Anyone who takes the time to get a OSM user account,
contributes data, runs a mapping event or otherwise introduces people to
OSM can hardly be considered anti-OSM. I think sometimes Missing Maps and
HOT are singled out because it is easy to figure out what they are doing
since much of the conversation seen is in English. Plenty of communities
around the world have different views and ways of contributing to the
project. Those stories don't always come out though and those groups aren't
usually vocal on the osm-talk mailing list.

On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 5:54 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you
> didn't intend for your statement to come across as it just did.
>
> While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and
> MM, I do assume that the majority of the HOT and MM communities are not
> falling in to the trap of believing their own marketing copy and realize
> that they are a small minority in the larger OSM community and are
> dependent on the good will and support of the wider OSM community to make a
> difference.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 19.11.2015 um 14:28 schrieb Kate Chapman:
>
> Hi Christoph,
>
> The flaw with this logic is that people in HOT are not participating in
> the OSM community. Is the OSM community to remain static and "conventions"
> made years ago may never change? Do we not have the same goal of a free map
> of the entire world?
>
> -Kate
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Christoph Hormann <
> chris_horm...@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday 19 November 2015, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> >
>> > #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
>> > #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek
>> >
>> > This is *not* useful.
>>
>> But to be fair this is not only the fault of the mappers but also of the
>> HOT project managers since they specifically instruct mappers to use
>> such changeset comments.
>>
>> Generally the HOT project mapping instructions contain a lot of things
>> that are questionable from the viewpoint of the OSM community.  IMO HOT
>> needs to make sure these comply with the OSM conventions, for example
>> by sourcing these instructions from the OSM wiki and allowing the OSM
>> community to provide input and fixes this way.
>>
>> --
>> Christoph Hormann
>> http://www.imagico.de/
>>
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Re: [Talk-us] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in, favor of relations

[Richard Welty]

On 11/19/15 9:33 AM, Paul Johnson wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 8:22 AM, Paul Fox  > wrote:
>
>
> thanks.  i wasn't sure if "discussion" was the same as
> "announcement", but
> i guess it is in this case.  i also didn't realize the relation
> work was
> so complete -- i was under the impression this was still
> preliminary, but
> i suppose i misread that.
>
>
>  The relation work was starting to come on line a while a go, but so
> far there's been no big push to get anyone to consume it, even though
> it does make dealing with routes much more tidy.  Hence why I proposed
> we start pushing relations for route by default.
>
Paul Norman differs on the completeness of the relation work. i would
be interested in hearing his list of the issues he thinks needs to be
addressed.

richard

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Re: [Talk-us] Proposal: Sunset ref=* on ways in, favor of relations

[Kevin Kenny]

On 11/19/2015 07:13 AM, Paul Johnson wrote:
Obviously there needs to be a sunrise for consumers to catch up, but 
eventually the dinosaur needs to be killed.  There's some places where 
the way has a ref unique to the route, as noted on the ground, that 
currently isn't easy to map thanks to the associated tag already being 
used to identify the ref of an entirely different entity (the route 
relation).  I'm also suggesting that the quicker we do this, the more 
painless it'll be.
We should probably bear in mind how we got here. There's a natural 
tension here between the different uses of refs, that should be made 
explicit.


Those who gather data in the field map what they see. I get on the 
freeway near home, and I see signs "Interstate 890 East/NY 7 West." 
(Newcomers get confused all the time about the fact that "east" on the 
one route is "west" on the concurrent one.) At that strictly local view, 
"ref" is a cluster of values -  it's the multiple things that are on the 
signs. That's what a nearsighted mapper sees. In this view, the topology 
of the highway grid is an emergent phenomenon.


Similarly, to the renderer, the question to be asked is, "what shield or 
cluster of shields shall I put on this way?" That's again a purely 
local, nearsighted view, and comes down to "what's on the sign?"


If collecting mapping data from mappers or rendering maps were all that 
we cared about, we'd stop here.  Collect what's on the signs, render 
what's on the signs, we're done.


And that's how OSM got started, and for a while everyone was happy. Some 
people still are, I suppose. But with refs existing just on the ways, we 
lose important capabilities.


We want to be able to route, and generally speaking, I imagine that 
routers will favour staying on the same numbered route. (I could be 
mistaken, they may simply disfavour roads of lower quality or getting on 
and off freeways unnecessarily.) In any case, the traffic engineers 
generally number routes with the idea that they link destinations. A 
driver heading from Schenectady, New York to Bennington, Vermont can get 
fairly simple directions of "follow NY 7 east all the way to the state 
line, where it becomes Vermont 9. Take Vermont 9 the rest of the way 
into Bennington. The fact that NY 7 makes several twists and turns over 
local streets, and is briefly concurrent with NY 2, or I-87, or NY 22 
(and so on) might be noted as "watch out, the highway turns here," but a 
driver could follow the directions just as I gave them. That's why we 
have numbered routes.


And it's entirely sensible to ask questions like, "what cities does NY 7 
visit?" or "what route does the Northville-Placid Trail take for the 
section where it's following the paved roads in Piseco, NY?"or "what are 
the mileages between exits on I-87?" If all we have is the clustered 
text on the signs, then these are the sort of questions that most 
database managers are very poor at answering, because there's really no 
alternative than parsing the text of each sign, separating it out, and 
discarding those ways that don't match. Furthermore, such a question now 
comes back with a disconnected bucket of ways, without topology, so the 
program answering the question has to reassemble the ways into a route - 
and it may not even be possible to do so.


With route relations, it becomes simpler. "Troy Road between Crosstown 
Blvd and the Northway interchange is bannered NY 7,"
"The Adirondack Northway is bannered I-87 for its entire length" "The 
Adirondack Northway between exits 6 and 7 is bannered NY 7" become 
discrete facts, that are easily queried either by route or by way.


The disadvantage is that life becomes a trifle more complicated for the 
renderer. Instead of dealing simply with ways that have all the refs in 
one place, there's a subquery to get the cluster of refs that belong to 
a given way. This isn't all that hard, but Mapnik doesn't do it yet. 
Rather than try to get functionality like that into Mapnik, what Phil! 
Gold did with his clustered-shield proof of concept was to update the 
bannered ways with clusters of refs when importing the data, and then 
have the renderer deal with those clusters (with pre-rendered graphics 
for the shields). This approach had the advantage that the changes to 
the Mapnik symbolizers were minimal, but came at the expense of some 
truly weird database logic (made weirder by the fact that it also has to 
incorporate refs on ways).  I use his code, because it was too much work 
to reimplement it, but it's far from ideal.


In any case, any database designer wants to have a given piece of 
information in only one place. If refs are on both routes and ways, 
that's a potential for their becoming inconsistent between the two. 
Starting from the "mapper and renderer" perspective, refs on ways made 
sense, but moving forward, it makes things insane for routers, route 
queries and the like. Assembling reference for routes, by contrast, is 
fairly 

Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Blake Girardot]

On 11/19/2015 2:54 PM, Simon Poole wrote:

This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you
didn't intend for your statement to come across as it just did.

While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and
MM, I do assume that the majority of the HOT and MM communities are not
falling in to the trap of believing their own marketing copy and realize
that they are a small minority in the larger OSM community and are
dependent on the good will and support of the wider OSM community to
make a difference.


Simon,

As I asked you yesterday in HOT's irc channel that you frequent, where, 
please any one example, where does HOT say it is anything other than a 
part of the world wide OSM community?


Also, I would love to see any evidence of "rabid anit-OSMers" in HOT. 
Please, again, you make these claims, I would love to see ANY evidence 
of it.


For the record, HOT typically promotes OSM, not HOT, but OSM at every 
opportunity because OSM is the amazing technology, ideology and 
community that make HOT's work possible. For that promotion I can 
provide evidence, because I have personally promoted _OSM_ to many 
international bodies and NGO's.


In addition, you will notice that we spend a great deal of time, money 
and effort building local _OSM_ communities around the world, _not_ HOT 
communities.


It is a ridiculous statement on its face; obviously HOT does not succeed 
if OSM does not succeed.


As to the original issue Ramm raised:

Most HOT folks who commented agreed the example changeset comments, 
while useful, could benefit from improvement (as could the vast majority 
changeset comments in OSM). Mikel has already opened an issue in github 
to improve them and the issue has already been brought to the people who 
manage HOT OSM Tasking Manager projects, how is that not working with 
and being responsive to the larger OSM community?


I think HOT's history demonstrates an eagerness (and outright need) to 
work with the OSM community at every opportunity (not mistake free of 
course).  But I can also personally point to at least 1 example where 
HOT has reached out to OSMF and the License WG and literally been 
ignored after repeated attempts to even discuss an issue.


I don't mind constructive criticism and dialog and really want a lot 
more of it, but what I do object to are baseless attacks and accusations 
(e.g., "rabid anti-OSMers"). If you have some examples of this or 
HOT/Missing Maps (MM) marketing hype that in any way is disparaging of 
OSM or says it is somehow better than or invented OSM, please come out 
with them or stop making these statements.


I will assume that Ramm's original goal of his email was to improve 
changeset comments and that is what is coming of it, seems like we 
should all be happy and could move on and maybe follow up on it after 
HOT has had a chance to address it.


Cheers,
Blake
VP HOT

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Mikel Maron]

This is confusion. Kate was challenging that notion and was saying that HOT is 
definitely part of the OSM community, and OSM encompassed a lot of methods. No 
one I've seen in HOT or OSM is anti OSM, that's just wrong.
We're all hear to create the best open map ever. Maybe we can focus on how to 
do that.

Mikel * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 


On Thursday, November 19, 2015 8:57 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
 
 

  This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you didn't 
intend for your statement to come across as it just did. 
 
 While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and MM, I 
do assume that the majority of the HOT and MM communities are not falling in to 
the trap of believing their own marketing copy and realize that they are a 
small minority in the larger OSM community and are dependent on the good will 
and support of the wider OSM community to make a difference.
 
 Simon
 
 Am 19.11.2015 um 14:28 schrieb Kate Chapman:
  
 Hi Christoph, 
  The flaw with this logic is that people in HOT are not participating in the 
OSM community. Is the OSM community to remain static and "conventions" made 
years ago may never change? Do we not have the same goal of a free map of the 
entire world? 
  -Kate  
 On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 1:44 AM, Christoph Hormann  
wrote:
 
On Thursday 19 November 2015, Frederik Ramm wrote:
 >
 > #MissingMaps #hotosm-project-12345 Lubumbashi, Congo (DRC)
 > #100mapathons #OSMGeoWeek
 >
 > This is *not* useful.
 
 But to be fair this is not only the fault of the mappers but also of the
 HOT project managers since they specifically instruct mappers to use
 such changeset comments.
 
 Generally the HOT project mapping instructions contain a lot of things
 that are questionable from the viewpoint of the OSM community.  IMO HOT
 needs to make sure these comply with the OSM conventions, for example
 by sourcing these instructions from the OSM wiki and allowing the OSM
 community to provide input and fixes this way.
 
 --
 Christoph Hormann
 http://www.imagico.de/
   
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Frederik Ramm]

Christoph,

On 11/19/2015 03:14 PM, Christoph Hormann wrote:
> And if on http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/1300 i read:
> "Please draw one large area outline around groups of buildings and tag 
> them landuse=residential"

[...]

To be fair, that's exactly what *I* did in the early days when only
Landsat imagery was available ;)

I'm ok with cutting under-mapped areas some slack and not expecting them
to apply the same standards as countries that have been mapped for 10
years.

Of course you are also right when you say that HOT instructions do
sometimes clash with our usual quality expectations (I remember a recent
discussion about tagging "village greens" so that these can be
interpreted as helicopter landing sites or so). I think we were mostly
ok with this at the time when Haiti disaster mappers used
leisure=camping_ground to make refugee camps appear on the standard map;
such "crypto tagging" must, of course, remain an emergency measure and
not something we do regularly because it is easier.

Bye
Frederik

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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Richard Fairhurst]

Blake Girardot wrote:
> As to the original issue Ramm raised:

Frederik's first name is Frederik. It's not that uncommon. :) Please can we
avoid this becoming _really_ unnecessarily confrontational by calling people
by their surnames in a sort of English public school style ("go it,
molesworth, show them wot yore made of").

Richard




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Re: [Talk-it] via francigena

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2015-11-19 14:54 GMT+01:00 Dino Michelini :

> Non credo che ci siano problemi sul copyright: noi mappatori non
> utilizziamo dei files prodotti dall'ass. vie Francigene o da itineraria ma
> disegniamo su openstreetmap entità grafiche autoprodotte sulla base della
> nostra conoscenza del territorio e delle ortofoto del minanbiente.



si, quando si opera così non ci sono problemi. Se tu conosci le posizioni
esatte dei segnavia puio mappare anch'essi. Invece non è probabilmente
consentito (salvo esplicito permesso) di usare posizioni o altre
informazioni dal sito della via francigena.

Il percorso stesso dovrebbe essere completo (ma forse non privo di errori):
http://hiking.waymarkedtrails.org/it/?zoom=10=42.30168=12.53165=0
Facendo dei controlli vicino a me avevo in passato comunque riscontrato
delle differenze tra la realtà e la versione OSM (deriva in parte da un
import / un gpx poco preciso).

Ciao,
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Simon Poole]

Am 19.11.2015 um 15:17 schrieb Paul Johnson:
> On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Simon Poole  > wrote:
>
> This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure
> you didn't intend for your statement to come across as it just did.
>
> While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in
> HOT and MM,
>
>
> Not sure what MM is, but how can you be anti-OSM and be on the
> Humanitarian OSM Team?  Seems rather self-defeatist.

MM == missingmaps, sorry.

The point is that you can use OSM, the infrastructure and tools, as a
convenient and free service for mapping without buying in to OSM the
collaborative, community driven mapping project, the only thing which is
really required is that you have to live with the licence as determined
by the contributors. In the end not much different than if you were to
buy such a service from ESRI.

Now we don't really require buy in to OSM the project when people sign
up, historically this has mainly caused issues with individuals and some
times companies that have gone off on a tangent. But there is no doubt
that a lot of things about OSM are "different", the rules, the
structures (or rather the absence of them), how we technically do things
and in the end getting community buy in to whatever you are doing, that
are considered pesky annoyances and particularly a hindrance when you
are on a mission to save the world.

Simon




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Re: [Talk-br] Digest Talk-br, volume 86, assunto 15

[Helio Cesar Tomio]

Obrigado amigos pelos esclarecimentos.
Vi em algumas edições apenas o building e achei estranho.
Daí fiquei com a dúvida.
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Mikel Maron]

While it's factually correct to say that you don't have to take part in the 
community to work with OSM, I seldom see that in practice. Missing Maps and HOT 
are deeply involved in the OSM community. When we do see this gap between the 
data and community anywhere in OSM, it's a great action to take on, to find 
ways to make our community welcoming and understandable to more mappers. We 
also need to recognize that OSM is a collection of communities, especially 
along linguistic lines, and that we need to work more to integrate in positive 
ways.
-Mikel * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron 


On Thursday, November 19, 2015 11:44 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
 
 

  
 
 Am 19.11.2015 um 15:17 schrieb Paul Johnson:
  
   On Thu, Nov 19, 2015 at 7:54 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
 
  This seems a bit of an odd time to announce a schism and I'm sure you didn't 
intend for your statement to come across as it just did.  
 
 While rabid anti-OSMers are gaining more power and influence in HOT and MM, 
 
  Not sure what MM is, but how can you be anti-OSM and be on the Humanitarian 
OSM Team?  Seems rather self-defeatist.
 
 MM == missingmaps, sorry.
 
 The point is that you can use OSM, the infrastructure and tools, as a 
convenient and free service for mapping without buying in to OSM the 
collaborative, community driven mapping project, the only thing which is really 
required is that you have to live with the licence as determined by the 
contributors. In the end not much different than if you were to buy such a 
service from ESRI. 
 
 Now we don't really require buy in to OSM the project when people sign up, 
historically this has mainly caused issues with individuals and some times 
companies that have gone off on a tangent. But there is no doubt that a lot of 
things about OSM are "different", the rules, the structures (or rather the 
absence of them), how we technically do things and in the end getting community 
buy in to whatever you are doing, that are considered pesky annoyances and 
particularly a hindrance when you are on a mission to save the world. 
 
 Simon 
 
 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] A message to our friends at HOT, Peace Corps etc. about Changeset Comments

[Simon Poole]

Am 19.11.2015 um 15:53 schrieb Blake Girardot:
> 
> It is a ridiculous statement on its face; obviously HOT does not
> succeed if OSM does not succeed.

I think we fully agree and if you recheck you will see that I said
essentially the same.

>
> As to the original issue Ramm raised:
>
> Most HOT folks who commented agreed the example changeset comments,
> while useful, could benefit from improvement (as could the vast
> majority changeset comments in OSM). Mikel has already opened an issue
> in github to improve them and the issue has already been brought to
> the people who manage HOT OSM Tasking Manager projects, how is that
> not working with and being responsive to the larger OSM community?

Again if you go back you will see that I couldn't quite believe that a
shism was really being declared because it doesn't make any sense.

On the other hand you can't deny that HOT is in some ways self defeating
since it isolates lots of people from the whole of OSM and the nitty
grity parts. Intentionally naturally, but it doesn't necessarily
actually help the humanitarian sectors understanding of what OSM is and
how it works.

>
> I think HOT's history demonstrates an eagerness (and outright need) to
> work with the OSM community at every opportunity (not mistake free of
> course).  But I can also personally point to at least 1 example where
> HOT has reached out to OSMF and the License WG and literally been
> ignored after repeated attempts to even discuss an issue.

I would be interested in a reference to that. We get a large number of
enquiries, ~ 200 this year to date, and occasionally stuff gets pushed
back, particularly if there is no good answer (naturally you would get
an answer pointing that out).

Simon



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Re: [Talk-it] via francigena

[Leonardo Frassetto]

L'idea è ottima ma ci scontriamo sempre con la stessa questione: si possono
inserire in osm? Sono protetti da copyright?
Il 19/nov/2015 13:49, "Dino Michelini"  ha scritto:

> Salve a tutti da 3 mesi sto lavorando sul mapping con JOSM della provincia
> di Viterbo in particolare quella che viene definita Tuscia Romana e oggi mi
> sono iscritto alla mailing. Essendo un appassionato di trekking ed avendo
> per tre anni collaborato con Alberto Conte
>  alla
> manutenzione dei segnavia della Francigena nel tratto Viterbo - Sutri, ho
> notato che nella cartografia mancano molti dei punti di interesse
> (monumenti, strutture per l'accoglienza, ecc.), che sono segnalati per ogni
> tappa sul sito ufficiale www.viefrancigene.org/it.
>
> Come sapete quest'anno è indetto un giubileo.  Per esperienza, avendo
> incontrato in questi anni molte persone lungo il cammino lamentano tutti la
> difficoltà di orientarsi, in particolare nel tratto laziale, in quanto
> capita spesso che "furbetti" modificano/cancellano i segnavia portando le
> persone prive di un GPS fuori tracciato con tutti i problemi che ne
> derivano: in particolare l'aumento dei km percorsi e problemi nel
> pernottamento (spesso i segnavia taroccati portano presso strutture che non
> offrono convenzioni per i pellegrini ma prezzi esosi).
>
> Credo che si potrebbero unire le nostre forze per completare la mappatura
> della Francigena inserendo/aggiornando tutti i punti di interesse che il
> sito www.viefrancigene.org/it riporta di modo da fornire un valido
> contributo a coloro che intraprenderanno il cammino.
>
> --
>
> Dino Michelini
>
>
>
>
> Connetti gratis il mondo con la nuova indoona: hai la chat, le chiamate,
> le video chiamate e persino le chiamate di gruppo.
> E chiami gratis anche i numeri fissi e mobili nel mondo!
> Scarica subito l’app Vai su https://www.indoona.com/
>
>
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