Re: [Diversity-talk] Etiquette Guidelines bad | Re: Code of conduct

[Jo Walsh]

I continue to stand by the statement that a community CoC is there to protect 
under-represented people, not to enable privileged folks to tone police one 
other. In reverting edits and applying temporary blocks, one must look at 
intention not behaviour. 

Also everyone's on edge now for reasons that go far beyond OSM, fearful for our 
jobs, worried for our friends and families, deprived of our daily distractions 
and outlets, in the depths of midwinter. As appeasing as it may seem, give this 
time. Don't let go of the structural momentum for culture change, but do give 
one another time right now.


zx

-- 
  Jo Walsh
  metaz...@fastmail.net

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020, at 4:33 PM, Rory McCann wrote:
> Have any of yous read the Ettiquette Guidelines¹? They're rubbish.
> 
> Frederik broke them by publically calling Mike Migurski out, and for 
> not assuming he was acting in good faith. *But* if anyone publishes 
> something saying “What Frederik did was wrong” (like I (& others) did), 
> then they are also breaking the Ettiquette Guidelines! That's a 
> horrible outcome!
> 
> ¹ https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Etiquette
> 
> On Wed, 9 Dec 2020, at 16:57, Maggie Cawley wrote:
> > I am so happy to see this thread. I believe it will take all of us 
> > coming together and speaking with a unified voice to bring upon the 
> > change we need at the global level. As Clifford mentioned, a few of us 
> > from the LCCWG met on Monday to start talking about next steps. It's 
> > not about one statement, but rather that discussions and comments like 
> > those from this past week affect us all as we work to build diverse 
> > communities around the world.   
> > 
> > Rob, Clifford and I discussed the need for a CoC, but when Rob pointed 
> > out the Etiquette Guidelines exist and are pretty widely accepted it 
> > seems like a logical place to start. It would also enable us to move a 
> > bit more quickly since the document exists and won't need many rounds 
> > of community feedback. What is missing is the process for moderation 
> > and a committee available to moderate any complaints on breaches of 
> > etiquette. It would be helpful to review and suggest edits to the 
> > existing guidelines during this process as well. For the US CoC it took 
> > about 8 months to finalize the CoC and moderation process, and find 
> > volunteers for a committee.
> > 
> > I look forward to growing the conversation. Thanks Heather for starting 
> > this thread here and to all of you who are stepping forward!
> > 
> > Maggie Cawley
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 8 Dec 2020 at 21:30, arnalie faye vicario  
> > wrote:
> > > Hello/*Kumusta*,
> > > 
> > > *Salamat*/Thanks everyone for continuing the conversations and taking 
> > > this seriously.
> > > 
> > > It is good to speak up and comment about it in our individual capacities, 
> > > but a collective can build a fire  (charcoal comparison). 
> > > 
> > > This is what we did in OSM PH's Call to Correct Narratives About 
> > > Geospatial Work in the Philippines (re: Amazon-HOT video).  
> > > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/a/aa/A_Call_to_Correct_Narratives_about_Geospatial_Work.pdf>
> > > 
> > > Also, I would like to quote and highlight what David Garcia 
> > > (@mapmakerdavid) has shared in Twitter:
> > >> It is not just the maps that matters. Who *makes* the maps matters. Who 
> > >> *tells* the stories of the mapping matters, too. Who *LEADS* the mapping 
> > >> and storytelling also matters. Who *gets powerful* due to the mapping 
> > >> and storytelling matters most.
> > > 
> > > Thank you Geochicas, Celine @mapeadora, Heather, Rebecca, Miriam 
> > > @mapanauta, Nelson Minar, LCCWG Group, OSMF past/present Board members 
> > > (Kate, Rory and Mikel), HOT Community WG and everyone who expressed 
> > > support and has spoken up (apologies if I missed your name). It is really 
> > > encouraging and inspiring. Please add your thoughts in the document: 
> > > https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit
> > > 
> > > In case you missed it (like me), here is what Celine sent in the OSM talk 
> > > mailing list: 
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085727.html.
> > > 
> > > Let us keep the fire burning!
> > > 
> > > =Arnalie
> > > 
> > > On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:54 AM Clifford Snow  
> > > wrote:
> > >> I should mention that what we, Maggie Crawely, Rob Nickerson and myse

Re: [Diversity-talk] Code of conduct

[Jo Walsh]

Not sure how to make suggestions directly in the Google Doc or if i want to. 

I appreciate and feel broadly its sentiments but do not feel prepared to sign 
anything which has as a preamble an attack on one person, whatever the trigger. 
It's not equitable, risks entrenching the division. Principles sound but keep 
it about how things should be in a better world, not about how broken they are 
in this one.


zx
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On Wed, Dec 9, 2020, at 2:29 AM, arnalie faye vicario wrote:
> Hello/*Kumusta*,
> 
> *Salamat*/Thanks everyone for continuing the conversations and taking 
> this seriously.
> 
> It is good to speak up and comment about it in our individual 
> capacities, but a collective can build a fire  (charcoal comparison). 
> 
> This is what we did in OSM PH's Call to Correct Narratives About 
> Geospatial Work in the Philippines (re: Amazon-HOT video).  
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/images/a/aa/A_Call_to_Correct_Narratives_about_Geospatial_Work.pdf>
> 
> Also, I would like to quote and highlight what David Garcia 
> (@mapmakerdavid) has shared in Twitter:
> > It is not just the maps that matters. Who *makes* the maps matters. Who 
> > *tells* the stories of the mapping matters, too. Who *LEADS* the mapping 
> > and storytelling also matters. Who *gets powerful* due to the mapping and 
> > storytelling matters most.
> 
> Thank you Geochicas, Celine @mapeadora, Heather, Rebecca, Miriam 
> @mapanauta, Nelson Minar, LCCWG Group, OSMF past/present Board members 
> (Kate, Rory and Mikel), HOT Community WG and everyone who expressed 
> support and has spoken up (apologies if I missed your name). It is 
> really encouraging and inspiring. Please add your thoughts in the 
> document: 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/130JCTX9ve4H4ORXznmIVTpXiN3TX8nRGA8ayuTZ9ECI/edit
> 
> In case you missed it (like me), here is what Celine sent in the OSM 
> talk mailing list: 
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2020-December/085727.html.
> 
> Let us keep the fire burning!
> 
> =Arnalie
> 
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:54 AM Clifford Snow  wrote:
> > I should mention that what we, Maggie Crawely, Rob Nickerson and myself, 
> > want to accomplish is to create a committee to moderate the existing 
> > etiquette guidelines and later update the guidelines to reflect best 
> > practices of Code of Conducts.We planned to form a sub committee under the 
> > LCCWG since CoC is critical to Local Chapters. We did a survey of Local 
> > Chapters and those considering forming one. The results showed that 5 LC 
> > already had a CoC, 6 did not and 6 were consider or in a discussion to have 
> > a CoC.
> > 
> > Clifford
> > 
> > On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:36 PM Heather Leson  wrote:
> >> Always
> >> Heather Leson
> >> heatherle...@gmail.com
> >> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson 
> >> Blog: textontechs.com
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:31 PM Clifford Snow  
> >> wrote:
> >>> Heather - A small group of the LCCWG met via BigBlueButton yesterday to 
> >>> start a similar initiative. I was going to send an invite to the rest of 
> >>> the LCCWG as well as to this mailing list. Since you have the ball 
> >>> rolling, can you include lo...@osmfoundation.org in the mailing.
> >>> 
> >>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 1:22 PM Heather Leson  
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> Great. working in the draft now.  
> >>>> 
> >>>> Thank you right back. Saturday is just a way to discuss this restart. We 
> >>>> can keep building. 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Heather 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Heather Leson
> >>>> heatherle...@gmail.com
> >>>> Twitter/skype: HeatherLeson 
> >>>> Blog: textontechs.com
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 10:10 PM Gertrude Namitala  
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Thanks Heather for starting this. I will try to be available.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> Kind regards,
> >>>>> Trudy 
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On Tue, 8 Dec 2020, 23:05 Mikel Maron,  wrote:
> >>>>>> This is great
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> On

Re: [Talk-GB] Incorrect spelling of "cemetery"

[Jo Walsh]

I fixed a few misspelled building:* keys on a long train ride after
Jochen issued this challenge:

https://blog.jochentopf.com/2015-03-05-new-taginfo-features-and-a-challenge.html

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/reports/similar_keys <- useful!

cheers,

Jo

On Thu, Mar 24, 2016, at 12:26 PM, Dennis Bauszus wrote:
> Unfortunately there are quite a few spelling mistakes in the keys.
> 
> I investigated the shops keys recently and found among others:
> 
> toolhire, gereral, keycutting, manacure, bppkmaker, car stufff, 
> convienience, etc.
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Need some help

[Jo Walsh]

>
> And isn't this the project that caused a lot of problems because the
> users started adding all kind of services/shops/companies without a
> physical presence to the OSM data ? [2]
>
> [1] http://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=20859 (April 14,
> 2013)
> [2]https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2014-May/069761.html

This would seem to be the case:
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Bitcoin

Automated contributions via this account stopped 8 months ago:
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: GIS Day in Lomé and Haiti in the middle of two OSM and GIS capacity building missions

[Jo Walsh]

Remember that GIS Day is an ESRI trademark.

Some of us prefer to celebrate PostGIS Day, which falls the following day. 

OSGeo4ever,


zx

On November 18, 2015 11:56:54 PM GMT, nicolas chavent 
 wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>
>Apologies for cross-postings, I am resending from crisis mappers and
>hot
>this note for those still active mapping this GIS Day 2015.
>
>
>
>Sharing a short wrap up of how the GIS Day looked like for two
>collectives
>of mappers active in Lomé and Port Au Prince which might be of
>interest.
>
>
>"GIS Day" 08 PM (UTC), it's mid day in Port Au Prince (Haiti) and night
>time in Lomé (Togo) after long and happy working hours around OSM, GIS
>and
>opendata.
>
>In Togo at Université de Lomé UL (Lomé University UL):
>- 50 people working all day long on QGIS with OpenStreetMap data
>created
>through the first 4 days of the maptrek mivamapper (Come map Togo local
>language) in Anfamé (Lomé) but also with data from the OCHA Core
>Operational Datasets (COD) and Fundamental Operational Dataset (FOD)
>accessed via the Humanitarian Responses and the HDX platforms.
>- 20 people working half a day exploring, visualizing and retrieving
>geodata of all sorts (openstreetmap, opendata, gray-licensed data) with
>the
>IFL (Infrastructure de Données Spatiales Francophone Libre/ "Free
>Francophone SDI"-FFS) hosted in France at AgroCampus Ouest and
>maintained
>with the support of the GeOrchestra community.
>- The same 20 spent their afternoon reinforcing their grasp on the
>webmapping tool uMap with the same kind of data
>- Asides of this, the same people kept mapping Anfamé and Biu cities as
>the
>first targets set for the mivamapper maptrek experience started last
>Saturday 14-November (our 8 days-long mapathon)
>- Now that night fell over Lomé, the preparatory work for our second
>State
>Of The Map Africa, the SOTMTG 2015, is intensifying.
>
>In Haiti at the Port Au Prince base of Haiti Communitere,
>- a couple of Haitian experienced mappers are being taught OSM on a
>train
>the trainer program
>- The same with the ProjetEOF collective are also organizing for both
>remote attendance of the SOTMTG 2015 and the last day of mivamapper
>- They are also laying the ground for a mapathon that will take place
>this
>21-Nov at HC's base and will focus on Areas Of Interest for local
>communities in Haiti
>- Like the days before, they'll finish their days joining in Western
>African mappers in the mivamapper maptrek.
>
>
>A rich GIS day like most of our days in Haiti ([1], [2]) and in Togo
>([3],
>[4], [5]) over the past 2 weeks and likely of the coming 10 days
>throughout
>those two OSM and Free GIS capacity building missions designed, funded
>and
>co-implemented with the Digital Directorate of the Organisation
>Internationale de la Francophonie (OIF) and with our haitian partner
>Haiti
>Communitere
>
>
>Anyone interested on these initiatives and willing to join can follow
>blogs, wiki, mailing lists from ProjetEOF and local OSM groups from
>Togo,
>Niger, Mali, Burkina, Togo, Bénin and Sénégal as well as the FB and
>twitter
>accounts of those groups as well as the following hashtags #ProjetEOF
>#map4tg #mivamapper.
>
>
>Best,
>Nicolas
>
>
>[1]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-openstreetmap-2015-haiti-un-dispositif-dappui-technique-et-organisationnel-a-osm-en-haiti/
>[2]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-openstreetmap-haiti-2015-an-osm-technical-and-organizational-support-initiative-in-haiti/
>[3]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-3-semaines-dediees-a-la-cartographie-openstreetmap-et-a-la-geomatique-libre-qgis-et-lids-georchestra/
>[4]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-recit-dune-semaine-de-formation-aux-techniques-de-cartographie-openstreetmap/
>[5]:
>http://projeteof.org/action-osm-2015-togo-mapathon-mivamapper-et-state-of-the-map-2015-togo-durant-gis-day-et-geoweek/
>
>
>
>-- 
>Nicolas Chavent
>Projet OpenStreetMap (OSM)
>Projet Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT)
>Projet Espace OSM Francophone (EOF)
>Mobile (FRA): +33 (0)6 52 40 78 20
>Mobile (CIV): +225 78 12 76 99
>
>Email: nicolas.chav...@gmail.com
>Skype: c_nicolas
>Twitter: nicolas_chavent
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] Quarterly project : Stats

[Jo Walsh]

What happened incidentally with the "smart traffic" project for which you were 
mapping out tags with Birmingham city council? It sounded so promising 

 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mappa_Mercia/UTC


Jo aka zool


On November 5, 2015 9:10:40 PM GMT, Rob Nickerson  
wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>During another eventful Mappa Mercia meeting in which we continued to
>plot
>world domination, one idea that came up was "would a kind OSMer who has
>a
>server running be willing pull back some stats for us on a daily
>basis?"
>
>In essence we're looking for a volunteer to query the TagInfo UK API
>once
>per day and dump the output to a simple file (or a graph if you're
>feeling
>particularly creative).
>
>Our current project is nature reserves so a good API call would be:
>
>http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org.uk/api/4/tag/stats?key=leisure=nature_reserve
>
>It may not be the world domination your were expecting but is anyone up
>for
>the challenge?
>
>Best wishes,
>Rob
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Jo Walsh]

I'm not on irc much at the moment, sorry. In general you can ping 
d...@osmfoundation.org with requests for mapper blocks, supplying context. 

This sounds like a call for a zero-hour block, which obliges the mapper to log 
in and read messages before editing.

I will have a look when i get off the phone if it's not been done





On October 5, 2015 12:36:20 PM GMT+01:00, Philip Barnes  
wrote:
>Message either SomeoneElse or zool in #talk-gb.
>
>Phil (trigpoint)
>
>On Mon Oct 5 12:31:09 2015 GMT+0100, Dave F. wrote:
>> Dataone is at it again. He's not replied to my post.
>> 
>> As each edit is an individual changeset & therefore laborious to
>revert, 
>> I think a temporary stop should be placed on him (both?) just until 
>> their attentions are grabbed. Is there anyone on this forum able to
>it 
>> or should I post in the talk forum?
>> 
>> Dave F.
>> 
>> On 05/10/2015 11:21, Tom Hukins wrote:
>> > On Mon, Oct 05, 2015 at 10:19:47AM +0100, David Fisher wrote:
>> >> Just had the same thing happen near me (Croydon) but by a
>different
>> >> user (Zain Ahmad Hashmi, e.g.
>> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/34443141).
>> > I've left a comment on this changeset.  Hopefully this will help us
>> > understand what's going on.
>> >
>> > Tom
>> >
>> > ___
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>> 
>> 
>> ---
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>> 
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Re: [Talk-GB] User dataone: "splitting into 2 way to tag restriction "

[Jo Walsh]

Ah, I'm some way behind the times ;)

On October 6, 2015 12:40:48 PM GMT+01:00, Frederik Ramm  
wrote:
>Hi,
>
>On 10/05/2015 05:21 PM, Andy Townsend wrote:
>> I'm away for a few days dodging raindrops in Wales so won't be able
>to deal with it directly
>
>Blocked both
>
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/815
>https://www.openstreetmap.org/user_blocks/816
>
>with a polite request for explanation.
>
>Bye
>Frederik
>
>-- 
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>E008°23'33"
>
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[OSM-talk] Innovative uses of OSM data in cities?

[Jo Walsh]

dear all,

Next week I'm giving a talk about OSM and the work of the DWG to a group
of mostly academics who are interested in Smart Cities and being fairly
critical about Urban Big Data.

I wanted to show a few examples of innovative uses of the data, or
things that can only have come about because so much of the base map is
there. 

OSMBuildings.org and the related 3D work would be one example. Another
is some of Alasdair Rae's work visualising urban footprints:
http://www.undertheraedar.com/2015/07/urban-footprints-some-building-outline.html
And for something different, the OSM based clothing from
http://monochome.com/

But I am interested in other examples of novel uses of OSM data, any
suggestions from the list would be welcome.


Jo
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[Talk-GB] Fwd: [Talk-scotland] State of the Map Scotland

[Jo Walsh]

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Re: [Talk-GB] HOT in the UK

[Jo Walsh]

We've also been holding regular Missing Maps mapathons in Edinburgh and 
Glasgow, thanks to Margaux Mesle and Duncan Bain.

- Jo



On May 15, 2015 10:45:55 AM GMT+01:00, SK53 sk53@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Paul,

The closest to a formal organisation is the Missing Maps
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Missing_Maps_Project project which
has
regular evening sessions in London. Several regular OSM contributors
are
formal members
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Humanitarian_OSM_Team/Members of
HOT
(Harry Wood, Nick Allen (tallguy) and Tim Waters (chippy) come to
mind),
and others often help out at Missing Maps sessions. I would suggest
perhaps
getting directly in contact with Nick
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Tallguyas he has put
considerable
efforts into training and co-ordination.

In practice there is much which can be done from any computer. The way
HOT
organises tasks these days uses the HOT Tasking Manager
http://tasks.hotosm.org/. I noticed with the current activity in
Nepal
that activity on the usual OSM IRC channels was tiny compared with
previous
disasters of this scale. This suggests that the typical activities have
become more-or-less regularised. My own experience looking at Nepal
mapping
is that the large volume of data created will require a considerable
effort
to clean it up to what I would regard as reasonable OSM standards.
However,
it is presumably good enough for the tasks immediately at hand. There
is
an existing community of mappers in Nepal, including regular visitors
from
Europe, but the disaster struck at a point where tagging standards were
developing.

A more challenging approach which might be more than you are prepared
to
commit would be to possibly persuade your employer to host something
like a
Missing Maps event.

One last thing there are now fairly regular Maptime
http://maptime.io/events
in Southampton https://twitter.com/MaptimeSOTON which might be a good
way
to make some local contacts as well.

HTH,

Jerry Clough



On 15 May 2015 at 10:02, Wittle, Paul p.wit...@dorsetcc.gov.uk wrote:

  Hello,



 I've subscribed to this message list because I'm looking around to
see if
 there is any organised UK group which deals with HOT projects. I
believe
 this is a US based NGO setup to coordinate the use of OSM for
disaster
 relief efforts after major events such as the recent earthquakes in
Nepal.



 Whilst I'd love to be doing OSM edits in my spare time I've been
 struggling to find time to get involved with job changes and children
over
 the past 5 years or so. I would very much like to get involved with
mapping
 for disaster recovery and my current employer permits us to take time
off
 work for voluntary causes. I suspect they would approve of my doing a
day
 to help the disaster recovery processes and it seems that HOT is the
 international group which organises that effort on OSM. In order to
do this
 I need be able to explain to my employer what I would be doing and
who I
 would be doing it for.



 I wondered if there is a formal group for HOT in the UK and if anyone
runs
 UK based training following the http://learnosm.org material setup by
HOT?



 Best Regards,



 Paul Wittle


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Re: [Talk-GB] User changing place=suburb to neighbourhood

[Jo Walsh]

I see there are no changeset comments either. Have you started a changeset 
discussion? I can't tell on the mobile.

On April 23, 2015 12:25:10 AM GMT+01:00, Dave F. dave...@madasafish.com 
wrote:
Hi

User abc26324 has been changing place=suburb to neighbourhood. This 
edits are widespread so I doubt he has local knowledge. The ones near
my 
vicinity seem erroneous.

https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/30417434?node_page=1

He's adding place=farm tags. Is this still current? I thought 
landuse=farm/farmland superseded it.

He also appears to move place tags short distances, but I can see no 
logical reason why.

Any ideas what he's doing?

I've sent a message asking to clarification.

David Fox



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Re: [OSM-talk] Territorial waters of Gibraltar

[Jo Walsh]

   In between is disputed 
  territory. How do we handle that in other cases?
 We follow the on the ground principle. 
 http://osmfoundation.org/w/images/d/d8/DisputedTerritoriesInformation.pdf

Now that document says one interesting thing about OSM holding one set
of most-recognised borders; that 
In the future, we may look at supporting alternative sets directly. 
I don't know of any technical proposals to achieve this. 
Side-track from the core issue of Gibraltar though, sorry.



 

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Re: [OSM-talk] PD: what can I do with automatic changes done against code of conduct

[Jo Walsh]

  So my questions are: is community supposed to run like this? What can I do 
  about it to fix it? Can I escalate this problem somewhere? Would it be ok 
  if I reverted those changes?

The Data Working Group exists in order to give mappers a chance to
escalate concerns about other mappers' edits that can't be resolved
through the usual channels of communication - private messages,
changeset discussions, the mailing lists or forums according to regional
community preference. This would be a familiar looking sort of case for
the DWG.

A member of the DWG will sometimes revert changes as a result of a
decision in a case, but there's nothing special about that act of
reversion. You should feel as free to revert as any mapper; but don't
risk your peace of mind if that looks likely to trigger an edit war in
the map, which can't help.

There is a Mechanical Edit Policy to do with these kind of systematic
changes, and anyone has grounds to revert changes that don't follow the
code of conduct:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edit_Policy

It sounds like a forum discussion of the topic is the next step though,


- Jo

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Re: [Talk-GB] HampshireCC aerial imagery and height data

[Jo Walsh]

We have had a Scottish server for some time, you know.

We have plans and dreams for the Scottish server, mostly, plus a broken
Rails prototype, and a lovely animated GIF of a massive saltire.

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015, at 10:33 AM, SK53 wrote:
 I think it's safe to say that faffy is no more[1].

 As this server was the repository of OSM out-of-copyright imagery as
 well as the Hampshire aerials ( I suspect Surrey) it may be sensible
 to also remove these as imagery sources in editors.

 It may also be the right time to raise the issue of a group supporting
 a UK (or GB) specific server, for specific rendering  other tiled
 imagery.

 Jerry

 On 25 March 2015 at 09:16, Matt Williams li...@milliams.com wrote:
 On 24 March 2015 at 22:21, Christopher Baines
 m...@cbaines.net wrote:

 On 09/05/14 10:15, Andy Robinson wrote:

 The following TMS formats work for me:



 RGB:- http://faffy.openstreetmap.org/hampshire-rgb/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg



 False Colour IR:-

 http://faffy.openstreetmap.org/hampshire-fcir/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg



 Height:-
 http://faffy.openstreetmap.org/hampshire-height/{zoom}/{x}/{y}.jpg



 Can anyone point me to a working server for these tiles?


According to http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Platform_Status, faffy is down

and looks like it has been for some time. Does anyone know of an

update to this?


Matt


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  1. 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/chef/commit/12e2c9db247d2d90fb0d70ba5ccc241c092185e9
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Re: [Talk-GB] state of the map 2015

[Jo Walsh]

On Sun, Mar 22, 2015, at 06:17 PM, Bob wrote:
 Does anyone have any idea why this was cancelled and why other bidders
 arn't taking over.

I'm sure i read a blog or perhaps diary entry with a lot more detail
than in
https://blog.openstreetmap.org/2015/02/25/openstreetmap-events-in-2015/
but can't find it,g

The gist of the the matter as i recall it was that the Venice bid was
preferred but the dates were not; SotM US already had dates too close.
and the best alternative dates were beset by an International Exposition
of Something, and finding accomodation was going to be impossible. And
by the time all this was realised it was too late it was too late for
the small, inexperienced WG to figure out a replacement path. 

So i guess some people will be going to SotM US instead and it probably
will be the biggest ever sotm but supposedly a regional one. Not sure
about that, i'd have been much more likely to bust a gut to get there if
it had been the main sotm, but not a -us spinout with parochial
concerns...


zx

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Re: [Talk-GB] Proposed import of approximately 6 bicycle repair tool stands in the UK

[Jo Walsh]

  +1
  
  And/or add 6 notes to the map, providing notes have meaningful content
  they tend to be picked up local mappers..
  
 There is really no need to import this type of data in the UK where the
 mapping culture is to walk/cycle and just go and have a looksee. 

+1 - this seems like an ideal application for notes, and small enough a
dataset that it can all be surveyed by hand and eye.


- Jo

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Re: [Talk-GB] OS OpenData now OGL

[Jo Walsh]

I asked @owenboswarva on Twitter who is an active voice whom i trust on
open government data issues, and he said this:

IMO the only significant difference is v3 explicitly permits re-users
to list multiple attributions via a URI or link. ...the differences are
mostly just tidier syntax. If you are happy v2 is compatible with OdBL
(IMO it is) then v3 is also.


zx
--
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On Wed, Feb 18, 2015, at 12:04 AM, Rob Nickerson wrote:
 On 17 February 2015 at 23:57, Matthijs Melissen
 i...@matthijsmelissen.nl wrote:


I could imagine that OGL-3 has imported OS ODL's clause on

sublicensing that caused incompatibility with ODbL, which would make

OGL-3 incompatible with ODbL.Do we have confirmation that this is not

the case, i.e. that OGL-3 and ODbL are compatible?


-- Matthijs


 All the OGL versions are online. A comparison of v2 and v3 shows
 nothing to worry me. Hopefully Robert W will chip in as he's clued up
 on all this.

 Version 3:
 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/3/

 Version 2:
 http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/doc/open-government-licence/version/2/
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Re: [OSM-talk] Routing on osm.org

[Jo Walsh]

On Mon, Feb 16, 2015, at 08:19 PM, Colin Smale wrote:
 +1 to that! Hope it doesn't lead to an outbreak of tagging for the
 router though... You know, down/upgrading roads to improve the
 results...


Anecdatally, I would say that outbreak is well in hand already :/
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Re: [OSM-talk] How We Map

[Jo Walsh]

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015, at 07:39 PM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/How_We_Map
 
 I welcome this page, I think it is very useful.
 
 One small comment - I oppose the following sentence:

Thank you for the comment Matthijs, I've added it to the discussion page
here, 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:How_We_Map

 In any case, I would like to thank you for drafting this document.

The original longer draft was a collective effort on the part of the DWG
some time before i joined up, and Frederik did all the hard work of
writing it up, so I can only accept a tiny modicum of credit for
compressing it :)

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Re: [OSM-talk] How We Map

[Jo Walsh]

  OpenStreetMap values community cohesion over data perfection.
 
 Could both terms be more elaborated on?
 Does data perfection in practice mean adding true but not really
 useful things, often in not-well-thought-out way?
 Because otherwise, we should strive to be perfect.

Ah, this is exactly where i start whipping out classic references to
Jorge Luis Borges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Exactitude_in_Science
In that Empire, the Art of Cartography attained such Perfection that
the map of a single Province occupied the entirety of a City, and the
map of the Empire, the entirety of a Province. In time, those
Unconscionable Maps no longer satisfied, and the Cartographers Guilds
struck a Map of the Empire whose size was that of the Empire, and which
coincided point for point with it. The following Generations, who were
not so fond of the Study of Cartography as their Forebears had been, saw
that that vast map was Useless, and not without some Pitilessness was
it, that they delivered it up to the Inclemencies of Sun and Winters.

The wording here was an attempt not to set OSM up for a cultural fall by
saying anything along the lines of data quality is not as important to
us as successful community. Suggestions for easier wording of this
statement, on the Talk page for the draft, would be appreciated. I see
this point has already been raised there:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:How_We_Map#Community_cohesion

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Re: [OSM-talk] How to locate errors

[Jo Walsh]

The mystery of Lac Leman has now been solved.

Oliver Tonnhofer identified this as a problem with Imposm 2 (but not
Imposm 3) being picky over non-closed relations.

Simon Poole just fixed the dubious way that was hanging out in the
middle of Lac Leman: 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/28770763

It should all work properly everywhere by tomorrow, Hendrik :)

w00t everyone 


-- 
  Jo Walsh
  metaz...@fastmail.net

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015, at 11:25 AM, Jo Walsh wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 9, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Hendrik Hoeth wrote:
  - Import planet-150202 into psql-database using imposm. Settings are at
the bottom of this mail.
  
  - The Lake Geneva (Lac Leman, Switzerland) is missing. There is no
polygon data for the lake in my database. Anything else I've looked at
seems to be fine.
  
  How would I find out what to fix?
 
 Reading back, your problem is probably with imposm being picky; Lac
 Leman is a multipolygon relation, and you're only importing regular
 polygons in your settings file. Vanilla imposm may also be skipping big
 relations? see
 http://imposm.org/docs/imposm/latest/tutorial.html#multipolygon-relation-building
  
 
 There is a helpful imposm forum on which i've had advice before and
 you're probably much better off asking there.
 https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/imposm Today i'm experimenting
 with osm2psql and having a better time with that than imposm, involves
 less upfront thinking. 
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] How to locate errors

[Jo Walsh]

On Mon, Feb 9, 2015, at 10:24 AM, Hendrik Hoeth wrote:
 - Import planet-150202 into psql-database using imposm. Settings are at
   the bottom of this mail.
 
 - The Lake Geneva (Lac Leman, Switzerland) is missing. There is no
   polygon data for the lake in my database. Anything else I've looked at
   seems to be fine.
 
 How would I find out what to fix?

Reading back, your problem is probably with imposm being picky; Lac
Leman is a multipolygon relation, and you're only importing regular
polygons in your settings file. Vanilla imposm may also be skipping big
relations? see
http://imposm.org/docs/imposm/latest/tutorial.html#multipolygon-relation-building
 

There is a helpful imposm forum on which i've had advice before and
you're probably much better off asking there.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/imposm Today i'm experimenting
with osm2psql and having a better time with that than imposm, involves
less upfront thinking. 

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Re: [OSM-talk] How to locate errors

[Jo Walsh]

On Tue, Feb 10, 2015, at 06:14 AM, Hendrik Hoeth wrote:
 Hello again,
 
 I've imported Europe from geofabrik.de (2015-02-08), made sure I didn't
 use the wrong table, and Lac Leman is still missing. So how would I
 proceed? I have no idea how to debug this.

The relation for Lac Leman / Lake Geneva looks fine in the renderer:
http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/332617

So i suggest it's a problem with your query, not with the data itself?
I can have a look via osmpgsql and report back, may not help much.


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Re: [OSM-talk] this has to stop: iD user mistakes all over the place

[Jo Walsh]

 What might help here is to get details from the new mapper concerned of 
 how they felt that they needed to merge nodes or ways.  

I use changeset discussions a fair bit, partly because they end up right
in the new mapper's inbox, and that provides a link to an outside view
of the new mapper's changes. I always wish it was more obvious how to
explore the history of the related nodes and ways and see the editors of
related changesets from the changeset landing page, but at least it's
all there in the links, at least in theory.

Ideally a calm discussion leads to someone engaging a bit more and
fixing the problem themselves, though more often it's a polite prelude
to a future reversion :/

  * not telling the user about the importance of all tags, even unknown to
  the software and allowing user to communicate with user of the last
  change of the object
  ... So far, I try to keep calm and rather save my changes and upload them
  later after solving conflicts instead of starting an edit war by
  reverting or uploading older versions but I spend more time with
  communication and investigating problems than actually mapping 

On the one hand I'm sorry to hear that communicating and fixing is a
distraction from mapping for you, on the other you're starting to sound
like a candidate member of the DWG ;) Maybe consider it, validating an
activity you're pursuing anyway...


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[OSM-talk] How We Map

[Jo Walsh]

dear all,

I wish to float this draft page for discussion and possibly future
approval!

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/How_We_Map

The page is a summary of a draft Mappers' Code written by Frederik some
time ago after extensive discussion with the rest of the DWG. When I
signed up to the DWG I tried to condense that draft into a
single-screen, single-page, easily digestible version appropriate to
show to new mappers and to put on the registration pages. My ideal for
the doc is that it expresses the core principles of contributing to OSM
without besetting anyone with rules, and that it's as short as possible
without missing out anything important to know. I encourage people to
post scathing critiques on the Talk: page in addition to here on the
list. 

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:How_We_Map

For the benefit of the really lazy or bandwidth-deprived, I include the
full text of How We Map as it stands now, below the fold.

be well all,



OpenStreetMap is a social activity; it is a teamwork effort by hundreds
of thousands of people around the globe.

OpenStreetmap has a tradition of making as few rules as possible.

Contributions to OpenStreetmap should be:

Truthful - means that you cannot contribute something you have
invented.
Legal - means that you don't copy copyrighted data without
permission.
Verifiable - means that others can go there and see for themselves
if your data is correct.
Relevant - means that you have to use tags that make clear to others
how to re-use the data

When in doubt, also consider the on the ground rule: map the world as
it can be observed by someone physically there.

OpenStreetMap has very few rules on tagging. There are tagging standards
but they evolve instead of being pushed through.

OpenStreetMap values local knowledge highly, but mappers should welcome
edits from outsiders.

OpenStreetMap values community cohesion over data perfection.

You do not have to ask permission before modifying existing data. If you
believe that you can improve something, then do it.

In talking to other mappers, always assume good intentions.

If you have a conflict with another mapper that you cannot solve amongst
yourselves, involve other project members - via the local community
meetup, the regional mailing list or areas of the forum, or by messaging
them directly.

Occasionally you will be contacted by other mappers about edits you have
made. Please do not ignore them; if the other mapper has taken the time
to look at your edit and ask you a question, they deserve an answer.

Do not delete data unless you know (or have very strong reason to
believe) that it is incorrect.

Do not engage in large-scale cleanups without securing the agreement
of the relevant community, or talking to the people whose work you aim
to clean.

You may believe your third-party dataset should be added to OSM. Do not
bulk import data from other sources without first discussing and
securing agreement on the imports list. 

-- 
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  metaz...@fastmail.net

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Re: [Talk-GB] import / mech edit of some Aberdeen city council open data

[Jo Walsh]

On Sun, Feb 8, 2015, at 07:04 AM, Jo Walsh wrote:
 Ugh, okay, we had it from the horse's mouth so to speak that the license
 on the new CKAN catalogue would be OGL.
 I will sanity check this today.

Sadly, the horse is over-optimistic, so to speak, on this topic.

Aberdeen City Council plans a re-launch of its open data site, backed by
a CKAN catalogue ( http://ckan.org/ )
and the same data will re-appear there, all re-licensed under the OGL.
This is on a soonish timescale, so any attempt at an import, manual or
otherwise, will have to wait until there is 150% license interop
clarity.

Ah well, worth socialising this issue on the list anyway I hope, sorry
to take up time pre-emptively, 


zx



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[Talk-GB] import / mech edit of some Aberdeen city council open data

[Jo Walsh]

I'm here at http://codethecity.org and neiljp has just arrived, too, and
we are egging one another on to import some Aberdeen city council open
data into OSM.

Specifically looking at this dataset of schools with point locations:

http://open311.xoverto.com/dev/v1/facilities/schools.json

An overpass query reveals a mix of node and way data for schools
existing, with nothing like the same coverage.

Would people be broadly okay with this / should we be following a
process through the list?

The data is OGL licensed.


zx

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Re: [Talk-GB] import / mech edit of some Aberdeen city council open data

[Jo Walsh]

Ugh, okay, we had it from the horse's mouth so to speak that the license
on the new CKAN catalogue would be OGL.
I will sanity check this today.

To their credit they are very sensitive to issues surrounding OS derived
works. It is quietly wonderful to hear a local authority rep talking of
QGIS and GeoJSON in a perfectly natural manner.

neiljp went a lot further digging around with Overpass looking for
matching names as well as tagged amenities, and there's a decent
quantity of way rather than node data there already, so any import will
be manual not semi-automated

The feedback is apprec, Dan S


On Sat, Feb 7, 2015, at 09:31 PM, Dan S wrote:
 Hi Jo,
 
 How do you know it's OGL licensed? I went to try and find the licence
 and I found this page:
 http://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/open_data/education_learning.asp
 where the licence is stated to be CC-BY-SA-3, which cannot be imported
 into OSM (because the SA constraint means it can't be relicensed as
 ODBL). I can't be certain that I found the same schools data (...in
 fact it has 72 vs 70 items in it...), but I guess at some point the
 imports-list would demand proper proof that it's available under a
 compatible licence. They'd also ask how the lat/lon were found (did it
 involve OS? google?), since that's been an issue with some imports.
 
 From my point of view, this is a simple and small dataset and I
 personally would not object to an import as long as duplicates were
 avoided etc. Others probably feel different. It's mainly the licence
 question for me. Oh and I don't live anywhere near Aberdeen ;)
 
 Best
 Dan
 
 2015-02-07 17:24 GMT+00:00 Jo Walsh metaz...@fastmail.net:
  I'm here at http://codethecity.org and neiljp has just arrived, too, and
  we are egging one another on to import some Aberdeen city council open
  data into OSM.
 
  Specifically looking at this dataset of schools with point locations:
 
  http://open311.xoverto.com/dev/v1/facilities/schools.json
 
  An overpass query reveals a mix of node and way data for schools
  existing, with nothing like the same coverage.
 
  Would people be broadly okay with this / should we be following a
  process through the list?
 
  The data is OGL licensed.
 
 
  zx
 
  --
Jo Walsh
metaz...@fastmail.net
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] Fwd: Re: [dispatch] Forming and chartering a GeoJSON WG

[Jo Walsh]

I am in the honourable position of having been asked to co-chair the WG,
thus you see my email in the original CC.
IETF don't know anything about my bona fides, which I hope are vaguely
adequate for the case.
I look forward to seeing it happen and would be happy to help channel
any OSM community input into the WG in a more formal way.


-- 
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  metaz...@fastmail.net

On Thu, Feb 5, 2015, at 06:20 PM, Tom Taylor wrote:
 Thought this proposed new Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF) 
 activity might be of interest.
 
 Tom Taylor
 
 
  Forwarded Message 
 Subject: Re: [dispatch] Forming and chartering a GeoJSON WG
 Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2015 09:59:04 -0800
 From: Erik Wilde d...@berkeley.edu
 To: dispa...@ietf.org
 CC: Pete Resnick presn...@qti.qualcomm.com, metaz...@fastmail.net, 
 Sean Gillies sean.gill...@gmail.com, Barry Leiba
 barryle...@computer.org
 
 hello.
 
 On 2015-02-03 16:40 , Richard Barnes wrote:
  Sorry for the delay here.  It looks like the next step here is to send a
  charter proposal to the DISPATCH mailing list, dispa...@ietf.org
 
 we have had conversations about establishing an IETF WG for GeoJSON,
 which would be chartered with taking the current GeoJSON definition, and
 turning it into an IETF RFC. the next step in this process seems to be
 proposing a charter. please find the proposed charter in this email to
 dispa...@ietf.org, and it also is available online here:
 
 https://github.com/geojson/draft-geojson/blob/master/charter.md
 
 ==
 
 Proposed GeoJSON WG Charter
 
 GeoJSON
 
 GeoJSON is a geospatial data interchange format based on JavaScript
 Object Notation (JSON). It was published at http://geojson.org in 2008.
 It has succeeded in streamlining geographic information system standards
 and making them accessible to practitioners of modern web development.
 GeoJSON today plays an important role in many spatial databases, web
 APIs, and open data platforms.
 
 This WG will work on a GeoJSON Format RFC that specifies the format more
 precisely and serves as a better guide for implementers. The work will
 start from an Internet-Draft written by the original authors. This I-D,
 draft-butler-geojson-04, substantially improves the format
 specification. The remaining tasks of the WG are:
 
 * Further clarification of the GeoJSON format specification.
 * Addition of implementation advice based on lessons learned since 2008.
 * geoAddition of more explicit extension advice to the specification.
 
 The addition of new features to the GeoJSON format is not within the
 scope of this WG. One possible exception to this (depending on WG
 consensus) is the adoption of JSON Text Sequences as an alternative way
 of serializing sets of GeoJSON objects.
 
 ==
 
 thanks a lot and kind regards,
 
 dret.
 
 -- 
 erik wilde | mailto:d...@berkeley.edu  -  tel:+1-510-2061079 |
 | UC Berkeley  -  School of Information (ISchool) |
 | http://dret.net/netdret http://twitter.com/dret |
 
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Re: [OSM-talk] API down

[Jo Walsh]

Fight, those powers-that-be!

ps. thank you, mysterious powers, for the dull hard  totally unremunerated 
work on the planets and the API, whoever you are.


On February 2, 2015 9:01:52 AM GMT, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote:
On 02/02/15 08:46, Malcolm Herring wrote:

 Are the powers-that-be aware that the API is down?

No, we're not.

We're aware that it was down, and that it was fixed two hours ago.

Tom

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Re: [Talk-GB] Fix the road name! Progress Report

[Jo Walsh]

Okay, borrowed a public keyboard for a ten minute ration so i'll try to
outline a bit better.

Frederik Ramm had the perfect keyphrase when he described osm as a
community of makers. Authentic community meetups, for some value of
authentic which means self-motivated and group-motivating
obsessive-compulsives like our fine friend SK53.

One problem in the US is there is little maker community due to the
relative provision of state-supplied geodata. Look at the work of
skquinn in Houston, Texas; a lone ranger slowly marking up the green
space and historic built environment of a neighbourhood. His traces are
overlaid by many visitors. He could easily build an osm maker community
but who is going to take his hand and give him political courage?

Meanwhile, your email took what seemed to me a slightly exploitative
tone, and i don't mean to accuse you of anything here, but local quality
can assure itself without overt explicit attempts at QA if the right
people are doing the cultural driving, for which see Edinburgh and
Glasgow as historical shining examples.

So why address the maker community in that tone? One major problem i
have with it is the ambiguity of we. It sounds like a commercial
effort driving along a passive community of contributors. Another is the
coders will step up; engineers tend to drive themselves. The work on
mechanical edit pipelining is a great example here. OSM is reaching a
new sophistication and the ITO message does not reflect that to me
personally.

Apologies if i've been harsh here, pressed for time but wanted to say
something at this point and not spam the thousands of people on the
main osm list.

Thanks for following this up with me, the snappy one-liner was emitted
in poor circumstances, hope you understand. ::)


Jo



--
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On Sat, Jan 24, 2015, at 02:44 PM, Jo Walsh wrote:
 i'm stuck on android keyboard, i'll try to explain when i find a
 bigger one ::)


 On January 24, 2015 12:39:52 PM GMT, Brian Prangle
 bpran...@gmail.com wrote:
 I don't understand your terminology - if you could explain maybe I
 could adapt

 Regards

 Brian

 On 23 January 2015 at 17:22, Jo Walsh metaz...@fastmail.net wrote:
 bit submissive-coercive in tone for me


 On January 23, 2015 12:56:11 PM GMT, Brian Prangle
 bpran...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks to ITOworld for fixing the problem with OSM Analysis - we
 now have some data to workon


 Well done to the folk in:


 City of Leicester, Bradford, Darlington, Redcar and Cleveland,
 Hartlepool, Shetland Islands, Sheffield, Berwick upon Tweed,
 Rutland and Guildford


 You are our leaders in our first quarterly project.


 How about Liverpool, Fife, Rotherham, and Manchester, all with over
 200 road name errors, getting up amongst the leaders?


 A challenge to anyone with coding skills:


 *Can
 we take the data on which ITOworld work, from where the data shown
 above comes, to make it personal, so we can see who is doing the
 editing- similar to the daily leader board for Irish townlands[1]?*


 We
 have corrected 247 road names in the last week. So if we continue at
 this rate we should have completed another 2,223 by the end of the
 quarter. Let's see if we can build on this and make a bigger dent in
 the task. Otherwise we'll still have another year and a half to
 complete it
 - and that's without the OS Locator updates adding more corrections.

 Regards

 Brian




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Links:

  1. http://www.townlands.ie/progress/activity/
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Re: [OSM-talk] There is a working map for people with Visual Impairment ?

[Jo Walsh]

Check out the work of Duncan Bain in Glasgow, here.


On January 21, 2015 4:20:06 PM GMT, Cristian Consonni kikkocrist...@gmail.com 
wrote:
Hi,

2015-01-21 16:37 GMT+01:00 Badita Florin baditaflo...@gmail.com:
 I want to apply in Romania for a Grant , for helping blind or visual
impaired persons with the help of OSM.

 But i cannot find a single working example. I found only theoretical
approaches in German language.
 I tried Lalm but i cannot get it started.
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lalm

 amauromap that is only theoretical and half dead ) tiles not loading,
no github from what i have seen
 http://www.ceit.at/ceit-alanova/projects/amauromap

 And the rest of the links point to this website
http://www.blind.accessiblemaps.org/ that is in german, and even
translated in english i don`t even understand if is working, how can i
use it, etc

I am not at all an expert in the field, but in 2013 at the State of
the Map (SotM) conference there was a presentation of an interest
project called Haptomai by Christian Graf and Frank Wippich.
The presentation title was: Haptomai: An online service for
customizable tactile maps.

Briefly, the project was about providing a service to produce
customizable emaps for the blind. Those maps were printed in a
particular way such that the users (blind or visually impaired people)
could get some information touching the maps. The idea was tested by
the creators organizing trips for blind people - with an accompanying
person to provide assistance - and providing the, with this tactile
maps.

See the video of the presentation (in English):
http://vimeo.com/78562730

This is the project website but it is only available in German:
http://www.haptomai.de/

Cristian

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Re: [OSM-talk] Change: How mature is OpenStreetMap?

[Jo Walsh]

 Attack is the best form of defence?


Sorry, I don't have much sense of the OSM community as it currently
exists, and I just re-joined the list, where it seems like others leap
in with confrontational tone. It has been some years since I was
actively involved in OSM and i'm so glad that it's hitting the public
radar in the way that my Twitter feed seems to suggest.

I don't mean to aggress or to show off, if that's how my suddenly
reappearing presence has come off; this is a genuine question for all of
those contributing suggestions to the list; water it up or down
according to extent of commitment. I just accidentally got a bit
overcommitted to OSM.
 On 2015-01-06 06:46, Jo Walsh wrote:


 dear Michal,

This is an interesting set of comprehensive criticisms that gives OSM
something to aim for in terms of a classical maturity model.

However, I wonder what you bring to the party apart from critique. What
are your contributions to OSM?


Jo / zool
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Re: [OSM-talk] Change: How mature is OpenStreetMap?

[Jo Walsh]

 I keep preaching it over and over again, but unfortunately very few 
 people are willing to invest time into the Wiki. It's just so sad when 
 you look on TagInfo and see how many tags lack a documentation.

I recently attended a weekend mapping party organised by the 57 North
Hacklab up in Aberdeen. It was meant to have more of a hackday aspect
but we just carried on mapping, and I really enjoyed the introduction to
a new city it provided me with.

It was also an interesting view of very geeky new mappers, familiar with
the underlying concepts but new to the problem space, and so we were
exploring the taginfo / wiki combination to figure out how to add things
like contact details for local businesses.bv

One thing we found was that a lot of the wiki pages had transitional
sets of tags; moving from one namespace to a more specialised one. We
weren't sure which tagset to use, and so of course one way to find out
is to look at the volume in taginfo.

In the end we looked at the centre of a comparable local city for
commonly used tagsets, and took those patterns, can't remember how it
all got tagged up in the end.



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Re: [OSM-talk] Change: How mature is OpenStreetMap?

[Jo Walsh]

I have no memory of sending this message. 


On January 6, 2015 10:38:29 PM GMT, Andrew Hain andrewhain...@hotmail.co.uk 
wrote:
Jo Walsh metazool at fastmail.net writes:

 
 
  
 Attack is the best form of defence?
 Sorry, I don't have much sense of the OSM community as it currently
exists, and I just re-joined the list, where it seems like others leap
in
with confrontational tone. It has been some years since I was actively
involved in OSM and i'm so glad that it's hitting the public radar in
the
way that my Twitter feed seems to suggest.
 
  
 I don't mean to aggress or to show off, if that's how my suddenly
reappearing presence has come off; this is a genuine question for all
of
those contributing suggestions to the list; water it up or down
according to
extent of commitment. I just accidentally got a bit overcommitted to
OSM.

Although lots of people have managed to do lots of constructive work
the
past few months have been the most argumentative since the Australian
clique
were at their worst as a cascade of long-running dissatisfactions have
come
to the boil like dominoes. It’s time for everyone (including myself) to
take
a deep breath, but we can’t just let frustrations build up again and we
really need to work on a stronger culture of harmony (we can have
strong and
differing opinions of course) and not just a surface appearance;
lurkers on
our communication channels aren’t the real audience.

--
Andrew


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Re: [OSM-talk] MEP - pipelines

[Jo Walsh]

Data won't slip away because it is not tagged; it will slip away because
it is not linked. 

The linking process benefits from having less coordination.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015, at 06:06 AM, Bryce Nesbitt wrote:
 You'd rather face a tag fragmentation, and slowly see your data slip
 away?
 It seems in many cases it's a favor to have the data migrated to one
 tagging system
 as long as that change is properly coordinated.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Change: How mature is OpenStreetMap?

[Jo Walsh]

dear Michal,

This is an interesting set of comprehensive criticisms that gives OSM
something to aim for in terms of a classical maturity model.

However, I wonder what you bring to the party apart from critique. What
are your contributions to OSM?


Jo / zool 

 * People are making discussions that come to no conclusion, this is so
 notorious.
 * OSMF does very little work to actually promote OSM and improve its
 ecosystem (the only things they do that matter are providing servers
 and the SOTM)
 * There is very little collaboration between OSM-related software
 developers who aren't exactly aware how their actions shape OSM (on
 the top of this would need much coding attitude of some - so why did
 you choose to maintain it?)
 * The enforcement of editing standards is very hard. There is always
 that user who doesn't bother to ever come by the community forum.
 (compare with Wikipedia)
 * Software for monitoring OSM changes is still very rudimentary. I
 wanna be the f**king NSA. It's incredibly hard to check newbies' work
 quickly (eg. you have to load every changeset separately into OSMHV).
 * Why do these newbies make so many mistakes? The documentation is a
 mess, editor presets are incomplete (whereas they should include all
 approved and other widely used features)
 * Many important people are so defensive there is stagnation instead
 of doing. You can only fully evaluate a concept by implementing it.
 * Data consumers not exactly make OSM appear professional. It's hard
 to come by apps that are nearly as professional as Google Maps or Here
 Maps. They also almost never bother to consider country-specific stuff
 (like how is an address written, proper handling of abbreviations).

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Re: [Talk-GB] RFC-3 Mechanical edit: UK Shop Names

[Jo Walsh]

My take is that Matthijs' heroic stand is a gesture of sacrifice of a small 
portion of his sanity for the greater good of OSM

However, i will totally admit to secretly preparing a kind of endographic study 
of the social work of the DWG which i'm going to knock some academics out of 
the sky with. 

We all have our coping strategies


On December 18, 2014 6:14:40 PM GMT, Phil Endecott 
spam_from_os...@chezphil.org wrote:
Brian Prangle wrote:
 Matthij's proposal as it now stands is not controversial and 
 is merely a typo cleanup. I'm amazed at his patience.

My assumption is that Matthijs is preparing an academic paper about
OSM in which he will reveal the number of hours work required per
byte of non-controversial database change, with some extrapolations
about the ultimate consequences for the project.  I can't imagine
anyone would go through this otherwise.


Phil.




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Re: [Talk-GB] No more voting on mechanical edits

[Jo Walsh]

On reflection, I don't really laugh with scorn in the face of the Mechanical 
Edit Policy. But it certainly looks like a mess to me. 

My take would be to attempt to extract the spirit of that policy and not bother 
kvetching over the letter of it. The phrase rough consensus and running code 
is okay, as long as you dont beat non-coders over the head with it.

I'm hoping to have a blitz edit of policy docs during the festives, there is a 
link to my dewrite of the DWG's draft Mapping Code of Conduct which i should 
really dare post here :)


Jo / zool 




On December 18, 2014 6:59:24 PM GMT, Rovastar rovas...@hotmail.com wrote:
Andy,

[Citation needed] :-) 
;-) 

Well please share the thoughts about what suggestions you have. 

I shudder to think how many man hours Math has placed/wasted into doing
this
so far, and how many more he should do for these (small) changes.

Cheers,
John



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Re: [Talk-GB] No more voting on mechanical edits

[Jo Walsh]

Hello again. 

I recently volunteered to serve on the DWG as a form of intellectual
self-punishment, and that's working out pretty well for me so far. 

One thing I'm nudging for in the DWG is more documentation around the
cases dealt with by the DWG. What evidence is considered, and where
there are any major differences in interpretation amongst the group. I'm
modelling this on a half-arsed understanding of the American Circuit
Court of Appeals, or a less flavoursome version of the Teaches of
Peaches: The Deliberations of the DWG. There's no resistance there at
all, more a matter of finding the time between fighting fires.

With my DWG hat on, in this case I haven't seen any new deliberations.
I've seen references to a discussion that was held two years ago with a
check-the-sentiment-holds at the end. There's no public collection of
the evidence and interpretation backing the decision that was made at
that time; but there will be more available next time, so this will
incrementally improve, in the way changeset discussions seem already to
have led to small improvements.

With my cynical hat on, I read
http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Mechanical_Edit_Policy and it doesn't look
worth the pixels it's printed with. 
It's a draft for inclusion in another draft that claims it wants to be
part of the Import Guidelines, which could use compression.
http://wiki.osm.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines 

With my personal hat on, I laugh with scorn in the face of this
so-called Mechanical Edit Policy. And i'm in agreement with Matthijs'
proposal to automatically clean up some errant shop name spelling
variants. Jewsons has as much naming authority over itself as the local
council IMO and it's not bad policy to follow theirs for their property.

I quite like this hat trick, glad the hat is back in fashion, ttfn

On Thu, Dec 18, 2014, at 01:17 AM, Matthijs Melissen wrote:
 The DWG has decided not to allow votes for mechanical edits. Andy
 Townsend wrote me privately, on behalf of the Data Working Group:
 
  Please also don't try and organise votes for subsequent mechanical edits -
  the consensus of the comments on the talk-gb list is clear that it's _not_ 
  an
  appropriate mechanism.
 
 For the sake of transparency, I thought it would be good to share this
 message also with the list.
 
 It is not clear to me why the DWG believes that the consensus on this
 list is that voting is not an appropriate mechanism. During the
 procedure for my mechanical edits, I had the impression that while
 some members, perhaps a majority, were against voting, there were also
 members who supported the voting process, or at least thought it is
 the best process available.
 
 Personally, I also don't think this decision is particularly helpful
 for the community. For the three mechanical edit proposals I have run,
 voting has helped me a lot to gauge the amount of support within the
 community. From discussion alone it's hard to estimate if there exists
 opposition - often people ask critical questions, which might lead one
 to think they oppose the edit, but then these people still express
 support when confronted with an approve/oppose question. Also, the
 mechanical edit policy states that 'As a rule of thumb, you should
 have 90% of the community behind you when you make the edit'. It's
 unclear how someone who proposes a mechanical edit can find out what
 part of the community he has behind him, when polling the community is
 not permitted.
 
 In any case, the citation above is the decision of the DWG. I respect
 this decision, and I will therefore not use voting as a means to gauge
 the community's opinion in further mechanical edit proposals.
 
 Finally, I would like to thank Andy and the rest of the DWG for their
 hard work. Even though I don't agree with their decision in this
 particular instance, I realize they do a lot of unpaid hard work that
 is invaluable for the community.
 
 Kind regards,
 Matthijs
 
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Re: [diversity-talk] The recent unpleasantness

[Jo Walsh]

+1 what Frederik said. Thanks, saved me some typing there.

We seem to have calmed down, I thought Mele had some very helpful advice.
We can all help to drag up the baseline of civility after this painfully
illustrative incident.

To me this looks like a pre-emptive attempt at a decision which there would
be absolutely no shame in retracting while there is work in progress.
On Dec 2, 2014 11:22 PM, Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org wrote:

 Darrell,

without going into the specifics of this case, there's one bit in
 your message that had a bad taste for me.

 What you have essentially done is elevate Serge's message to almost
 extreme violation status because you've decided to sanction
 immediately, rather than just going through the usual procedure.

 Your justification for this seems to be behaviour outside of this list
 and/or, and this is the bit I take particular offense with,

 The private responses to me have generally expressed that is part of a
 pattern of behavior, and not an isolated incident.

 Which, in essence, means nothing less than people having emailed you in
 private and influenced your decision by telling you bad things about Serge.

 I've been on the unpleasant end of moderation myself and I can tell you
 that there's few things more hurtful than having a secret court
 against you in which some people get the chance to whisper something in
 the moderator's ear, and the moderator ends up partly justifying their
 decision by what he's been told.

 Lurkers support me in email is a common theme on mailing lists, and it
 is incredibly easy to succumb to this but a moderator especially should
 not. If accusations cannot be in plain view (anonymised by the moderator
 if absolutely necessary) then they should also not be used to build a
 case against someone. Just like in a proper legal process, the accused
 has to have a chance to see what accusations are leveled against them,
 rather than just: Emails have been sent by an undisclosed number of
 unnamed people which paint the picture of the accused being a repeat
 offender.

 (Had I known that you were soliciting email comments about Serge's
 character, who knows, I might have sent one in his favour?)

 The absolute least you should have done is say something like how many
 private responses you have had from how many people and what they
 said, roughly.

 Else you're not only blocking someone from participating for 60 days,
 but you're also giving them the nagging feeling that there's an
 undefined mob (2 people? 5? 10? 50?) out there who are happy to secretly
 email everyone about an alleged pattern of behaviour. And what
 recourse is there against rumours?

 Bye
 Frederik

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[Talk-GB] dev8d Open Mapping workshop?

[Jo Walsh]

dear all,

I'm wondering if there would be interest on this list in teaching at an 
Open Mapping workshop (OSM + OpenLayers + PostGIS) during the dev8d 
conference, which is at ULU in London February 14th - 16th.
Thw workshop would be a couple of hours long in total with two or three 
people presenting, and plenty of hands on time for the attendees.
There'd be the option of a surgery or space in a projects area, later 
in the day. I think it's still quite open as to *when*, over three days.


I work with a PostGIS expert who I'm hoping to tempt down from 
Edinburgh, she ran part of a similar workshop attached to State of the 
Map Scotland in Glasgow, we'd need others at dev8d to cover editing and 
re-using OSM would be great. There'd be a background getting off Google 
Maps theme, which is more topical now than ever!


The event is aimed at developers working in higher education, with 
project and network activity accordingly, but all are welcome, I was 
surprised to see a few old friends there last year, maybe more this year?


Please get back to me off-list if you're interested in taking part in a 
workshop,



jo



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[Talk-GB] Bing imagery alignment in Potlatch 2

[Jo Walsh]

In this area Bing is a few metres out of alignment with features traced from 
historic maps and town plans. Yahoo imagery lower res seemed to fit better. A 
way to drag base layer like in JOSM. Or can it be corrected at source?


phone: +441316502973


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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: 
Contents of Talk-GB digest... Today's Topics: 1. Release of address data. 
(Andy Berry) 2. Re: OS OpenData and ODbL OK (Richard Fairhurst) 3. Re: Release 
of address data. (Ed Loach) 4. Re: Maxspeed conundrum (Peter Miller) 5. Re: OS 
OpenData and ODbL OK (Robert Whittaker 
(OSM))_
Message: 1 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 12:55:48 +0100 From: Andy Berry 
andynbe...@gmail.com To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Release 
of address data. Message-ID:  
canvu1c_pxy0jcg7qqego2m64b9va9orqkhhjgitg_h7zdib...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Release of address data may be 
on the cards. See www.nlpg.org.UK/Ezine.html. This may help with the release of 
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rich...@systemed.net To: talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] OS 
OpenData and ODbL OK Message-ID: 1311941389705-6633300.p...@n2.nabble.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Steve Coast wrote:  Hi Robert  Was 
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Message: 3 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 13:37:25 +0100 From: Ed Loach 
e...@loach.me.uk To: 'Andy Berry' andynbe...@gmail.com, 
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Release of address data. 
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in latest Firefox and IE but not in Opera, at least here). Ed From: Andy Berry 
[mailto:andynbe...@gmail.com] Sent: 29 July 2011 12:56 To: 
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-GB] Release of address data. Release 
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Message: 4 Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2011 14:11:46 +0100 From: Peter Miller 
peter.mil...@itoworld.com To: Kev js1982 o...@kevswindells.eu Cc: Talk GB 
talk-gb@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] Maxspeed conundrum 
Message-ID: 
CAMdtf+j0ddh4b89DZN-RpM6mNV=vkxjfybwb2xpwurwp9wi...@mail.gmail.com 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I suggest that any 'temporary' 
speed limit change that will last more than 6 months could reasonably be tagged 
in maxspeed. Shorter periods should probably use a maxspeed:temporary or some 
other suitable overriding tag? Fyi, I have used 'proposed:maxspeed' to hold the 
intended new value where signals are being introduced. 'construction:maxspeed' 
would I guess be appropriate where work has started. I have also used 
construction:lanes for sections of the M25 where the number of lanes is 
changing from 3 to 4. Also construction:oneway=no for a section of the A11 
which will become a 2-way road when the A11 dualling is complete. Here are some
examples: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/4546874 (proposed:maxspeed) 
http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/26295971 (construction:lanes) If we go 
with the above speed limit tagging then it might be worth updating the ITO 
speed limit view to show temporary and planned changes to speed limits. 
Regards, Peter On 29 July 2011 10:27, Kev js1982 o...@kevswindells.eu wrote: 
 on the a46 dualling I have been putting the reduced limits in, but here the  
road is on a new alignment so its for the rest of the life of the road  (until 
is becomes part of ncn route 48 anyway!) .   Shame there's no way AFAIK of 
tagging fixme:2013-05-01=roadworks due to  finish, resurvey alignment/maxspeed 
 and then have openstreet bugs 

Re: [Talk-GB] National Map Library of Scotland API

[Jo Walsh]

dear Bob, all,

On 08/05/2010 18:17, Bob Kerr wrote:
 Hi, I have been in touch with them and they are keen that we should be
 allowed to use their data so that we can create derived information that
 we can use for Openstreetmap. They have told me that they are willing to
 use the Open Database Licence with OSM they may just need some
 clarification of some minor details

 Is there anyone on the list that has experience with licensing that
 could get in touch with them. I am happy to be an intermediary and I
 have met them more than once and they know me. I would just like a
 little backup because this could be very beneficial to us in
 openstreetmap and to the Library. It would be beneficial to the library
 because they get more interest and recognition for their work

Okay, Chris Fleet (the Map Librarian at NLS) will be presenting this 
service at Open Knowledge Scotland, and relevantly, Charlotte Waelde and 
Andres Guadamuz, old colleagues of Jordan Hatcher (of Open Data 
Commons/ODBL) at SCRIPT, they'll be doing a clinic on open data 
licensing issues.

So we can make sure everyone meets - Bob i see you're on the okscotland 
attendee list already which is great because we're well overcapacity - 
and even raise this as a test case at their clinic, if they have that 
kind of flexibility.

Bob, i did forward Chris and Petr the original mail from Frederik lasy 
week, if there's any followup I'll definitely cc you (and look forward 
to meeting on Thursday!)

I could also *try* asking JISC Legal, it would be useful to get stable 
advisory words wrt ODbL from them.

cheers,


jo
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[Talk-GB] Search OS OpenData through Unlock Places API

[Jo Walsh]

dear all,

Sorry that the below is a bit spammy, but I figure there's a good chance 
of reaching UK researchers with geodata interest through this list. We 
recently added some of the OS OpenData sources to the Unlock Places 
search service that EDINA runs, the details are below.

Not sure if the service will have direct use for the OSM massive, more 
looking for archaeobods, historians, humanists etc, having a spatial 
turn and looking to geotag archives and that sort of thing.

We're working on standing up a Nominatim mirror and cross-searching OSM 
and Natural Earth, but i've burned up some goodwill resources recently, 
it may take a little while to get that done. Message follows:



We're happy to let you know it's now possible to search and re-use 
Ordnance Survey OpenData sources through EDINA's Unlock Places service.

Unlock Places was created for software developers working in a research 
context, providing search and query of geographic shapes through a web 
API, with data returned in formats suitable for re-use on the web.

Ordnance Survey datasets available include Boundary-Line, with 
administrative boundaries for the UK; the 1:50K gazetteer for 
contemporary placenames; Code-Point for conversion of postcodes into 
points and vice-versa.

These data sources can now all be searched and re-used freely without an 
API key. Registration still gives Digimap OS Collections subscribers 
search across places and shapes derived from Ordnance Survey MasterMap.

The Places gazetteer powers EDINA's Unlock Text service for text-mining 
and georeferencing research archives. This service extracts references 
to place from text documents, web pages or XML metadata, and links them 
to geographic references in a gazetteer. It is developed in partnership 
with the Language Technology Group at University of Edinburgh.

Get started with the Unlock Places API:
http://unlock.edina.ac.uk/getstarted.html
http://unlock.edina.ac.uk/api.html

Detail of updates to the Unlock Places API:
http://unlockdata.wordpress.com/2010/04/21/unlock-places-api-version-2-2/

Try the web version of Unlock Text:
http://unlock.edina.ac.uk/text.html

Questions? Ask jo.wa...@ed.ac.uk Problems? Try unl...@ed.ac.uk


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[Talk-GB] VectorMap District tomorrow (29th)

[Jo Walsh]

dear all,

Pls forgiveness if this is old news/missed in digest, but heard today 
that the new VectorMap District OS dataset is expected out tomorrow, 
however OS are unable to make any announcement about it due to 
pre-election purdah. Suppose it will quietly appear at 
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/opendatadownload/products.html

Wonder if there'll be building level detail, decent coverage of green 
space etc.

cheers,


jo
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Re: [Talk-GB] London Mapping Marathons

[Jo Walsh]

On 12/04/2010 21:59, Gregory wrote:
 I'd be happy to do that (I'm back from the start of May!). I think
 Thursdays might pan out better for me, but I might alternate if stuff
 comes up on Tuesdays.

 I think it was another Nick that mentioned SOTM and language in another
 e-mail, and I feel I should at least attempt to say a few key Spanish
 phrases while in Spain. Such as Two beers please and have you seen
 the mapping geeks?.

A print-out of slide number 78 from this talk will meet all needs: 
http://www.slideshare.net/ivansanchezortega/openstreetmap-en-zzzincodp

Da me dos canyas or Pon me dos canyas or just Dos canyas
(please is syntactic sugar, cerveza is bottle rather than draught.)

Donde estan los frikis con mapas?

mucha suerte,


jo
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Re: [Talk-GB] Opportunity for OSM to give a talk at University of Edinburgh

[Jo Walsh]

dear all,

On 07/04/2010 09:51, James Stewart wrote:
 I see someone has put there name down at this event for giving a talk -
 I am prepared to contribute something too, if you would like soe support,
  http://okscotland.eventbrite.com/

It would be great to have a State of the Scottish Map talk at 
OKScotland. I'm hoping we'll get a few people from the Scottish Govnt, 
Spatial Data Infrastructure scene along to the event too.  Chris Fleet 
from National Library of Scotland's talk on open historical mapping 
should be interesting and useful.

I am curious to find out what Open Innovation actually is ;)

Looking forward to meeting some nearby OSMers,

jo
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